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Thread: Death saves
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2024-04-26, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2023
Death saves
Why for PC when the NPC/Monsters don't?
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2024-04-26, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Maine
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2024-04-27, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2021
Re: Death saves
The PHB even has a section on this.
Originally Posted by PHB p. 198 Monsters and Death
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2024-04-27, 05:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
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- Netherlands
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Re: Death saves
For the same reason that a high level human can get tagged with a greatsword from a giant and be perfectly functional; D&D is a storytelling game, so the characters that are more important get more plot armor. And inversely, those that don't matter that much don't get as much, or get killed of quicker to move on.
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2024-04-27, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Castle Sparrowcellar
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Re: Death saves
Yeah that's why I skip it. It's to keep things moving. Death saves for enemy NPCs only crops up for me when the enemy is particularly important, or the enemy force has healing capabilities - they can Healing Word a downed person just as much as the players can.
Strictly, the streamlining does make it easier on players than giving death saves to everyone all the time. The chance of a nat 20, and having to spend attacks/actions to finish them would give those still standing more turns to live.
But if I want things to be more dangerous it's probably easier to just toss another dice of damage on every creature than do death saves.
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2024-04-27, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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- Texas
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Re: Death saves
In short, because PCs are special and nothing else is. Functionally, it's so players have a safety net when things don't go their way.
Personally, I think it's the worst thing about the game pre-Tasha's. [GROGNARD ACTIVATED] Adventuring is supposed to be dangerous. Characters should die and die often. It shouldn't be celebrated but it darn sure should be expected. Back in my day, if your character dropped to 0 hp, they died. Too bad, so sad, move on.I really need a new avatar.Nah, I'm good.
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2024-04-27, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Death saves
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-04-27, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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- Texas
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Re: Death saves
I've never done it with 5e games because most of my players were new to the hobby and it was part of how they learned to play... I mean, it's right there on the character sheet. I'm not going to take something away from them just because I'm old and grumpy. I save my house rules for limiting pop-up healing, recovering from exhaustion, awesome criticals, and such.
Some of them are in a BECMI game I'm running and it took 4 character deaths for them to change their style. They now have the appropriate level of respect for the unknown.I really need a new avatar.Nah, I'm good.
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2024-04-27, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Death saves
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
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2024-05-02, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2021
Re: Death saves
Because PCs dying sucks and is not fun. Monsters croaking is fun. Never let not-fun get in the way of fun.
Occasionally, an NPC with pertinent information winds up getting perished (often by the PCs). So death saves can be used a safeguard to preserve the plot. Otherwise, let it all burn.
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2024-05-02, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Death saves
I do like that they are saves, and thus it's possible to, for example, get proficiency in them (see: Monk) or add the Paladin's Charisma to them.
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2024-05-02, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Maine
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2024-05-03, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: Death saves
Same reason Batman is invincible, the hero gets a level of plot armor.
I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2024-05-03, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Death saves
Generally because dying sucks, and the process for creating a new character is a pain in the ****, and the pain is more the higher level you are. The PCs are given multiple chances to not die, as well as providing multiple opportunities for party members to save them. D&D doesn't want PCs to die, but you will if you are incredibly unlucky and/or have poor group dynamics. Now, alternatively you could say that players don't get Death Saves...But I wouldn't go down that route unless it's common for your table to have multiple backup characters - not just in mind, but ready to go.
But also I don't like ultra lethal games anyway. It just trains players to not be invested in their own characters (i.e; Leads to bad roleplaying) and ultimately leads to an arms race.
NPCs "just die" because no-one cares. If the DM really cares about it, they have the option for a creature to go to Death Saves as per the PHB. Very, very, very rarely are players going to declare for non-lethal damage, because keeping hostile creatures alive is almost always more trouble than its worth - especially if the creature is non-Humanoid and/or can Misty Step. If you don't want the creature alive, just fast forward to dead. The game is easier that way.
TL;DR. Because D&D isn't supposed to be hard. The game is rigged in the players' favour - including Death Saves being 10+, not 11+.
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2024-05-08, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
- UNKNOWN
Re: Death saves
Logistics mostly. If I as the GM am running a combat with 3 bruisers as a front line, 15 skirmishers with bows and a couple of spellcasters to run interference, that's a lot of bodies and abilities to keep track of already.
Also running death saves for all those creatures adds a lot of logistical overhead for not much payoff.
That said, the game doesn't break if NPC's get death saves, you can absolutely run things that way if you like.I am rel.
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2024-05-09, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Maine
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2024-05-09, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Death saves
Incidentally, there is an overall 59.5% chance of stabilizing at all with the standard death save rules and assuming no external interference nor bonuses to the save. That is including odds of getting a natural 20 on any of the first four rolls.
Round up to 60%, and you can save yourself rolling the odds out for any given NPC you care enough to check for after combat is over by rolling a d20 and saying he died if he gets an 8 or less.
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2024-05-09, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Death saves
The Monster Manual also establishes this as a default rule, while the PHB couches it as something "most DMs" do.
Originally Posted by Monster Manual, page 7Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2024-05-09, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: Death saves
Remove the "PC pops up on a 20" rule and you can simply declare that everyone gets death saving throws, and we're abstracting away the PCs going arround and putting a sword through the throat of every down enemy, because that's not all that heroic.
Monsters rarely have healing powers, so other than the chance of a 20, it really doesn't matter much if they roll death saving throws.
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2024-05-09, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Maine
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Re: Death saves
When discussing NPCs and death saves it's rarely about them popping back up when you don't want them to as much as them not dying when you want them to.
Outside of a few very specific spells and class features that allow you to gather not necessarily complete information from the dead, knocking somebody unconscious with a melee attack rather than killing them is one of the best ways to potentially gather information about a opposing Force.
Same for keeping NPCs and Pet focused tagalongs to cause unnecessary strife because of the math rocks not being friendly.what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
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2024-05-09, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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- I'm on a boat!
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Re: Death saves
Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2024-05-09, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
Re: Death saves
I get the point, but having played a Cleric that was on death saves, and DM'd a Cleric in the same boat in a different game that both managed to roll a nat 20 and save the day, I wouldn't use, nor be happy to play in a game that used that rule. (Not like, not play at all, but note my discontent in session zero and chive on.)
If NPCs didn't get the nat 20 rule (maybe it counts as two saves instead), but PCs still did, that's something I could get behind.
OTOH, I've never had an issue with the 'why' of the original rule so I'm perfectly fine playing NPCs die at 0 outside extenuating circumstances.Trollbait extraordinaire