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2018-10-08, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2018-10-08, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- the throne of regrets
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Ohhhhhh I really like where this is going.
At least now I can get back to enjoying my glass of elven wine in peace and quiet, without being called on to intervene in someone else's problems.
Clang, clang, clang goes the trolley! Ring, ring, ring goes the bell! Git away from me, ye daft fool!
*sigh*
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2018-10-08, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
It is important to a story that people act somewhat realistically within the setting (so if the setting allows magic, using magic is of course realistic). Every update we have threads predicting what may happen, what a person will do, or opining on why a character did a thing - any such speculation is founded on the assumption that characters will act somewhat realistically within the context of their setting. I think the OotS generally caters well to the importance of characters acting realistically, and I hope it does not depart from that.
In this strip, we see the Giant lampshading the unrealism of using conversation skills to get implausible outcomes (or altering reality as Hayley refers to it) as a joke. I think it would be disappointing if the major plot point of the entire comic was resolved in such a way:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0768.html
You're right, i did miss that option. Not sure how feasible it is though - probably depends on whether he just has to cast a spell in the general direction of the rift, or whether it has to be a particular spell with the purpose of adding his god's quiddity to the equation.Last edited by Liquor Box; 2018-10-08 at 07:06 PM.
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2018-10-08, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Well Durkon simply can say '' Redcloak, all your people and probably your God will be Snarl food if you don't help close those rifts. '' And I do believe Redcloak is smarter than letting a petty power grab that will eventually destroy everything, along with his people, happen. If not, well then he and his God deserve their fate.
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2018-10-08, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
This comic actually brings some interesting context to the collective votes of the Southern and Western pantheons in comic #999. To recap: The Western Gods voted in favor of destroying the world and the Southern Gods voted against (which, incidentally, means that the Northern Gods were the tie-breaker vote if anyone's interested in adding an extra layer to the current tie-breaker recursion).
What does this mean in respect to this comic? Well, consider what Thor said about the Western pantheon: The only deity from that pantheon even aware that the Dark One exists is Tiamat. As far as the rest of them are concerned, nothing at all is different about this run than any of the others. (Also, why does Tiamat know and the others don't? She has influence - and thus interests - outside the Western continent, as evidenced by her being the Oracle's patron deity.)
The Southern pantheon on the other hand is very aware that the Dark One exists... and they voted against destroying the world. How many of them did so for reasons similar to Thor's? Even after considering that the Dark One's people basically uprooted their major seat of influence?
I have a sneaking suspicion that the spell needs to be cast deliberately for the purpose it will be used to accomplish. Meaning the only way to trick him would be to outright lie about whatever is promised to convince him in the first place, which not only woudn't sit well with Redcloak when he learns about it but also likely wouldn't sit well with several of the other members of the Order.
Plus, you have to consider that Redcloak needs to do this five times, not one.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-10-08, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2013
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder if there are any feats where you can use your wisdom bonus instead of your charisma bonus on diplomacy rolls?
Durkon has that feat in my headcanon.
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2018-10-08, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Doesn't Redcloak already know about the Snarl and everything though? Redcloak's master plan relies on the Snarl potentially wreaking havoc and killing the gods, to blackmail the gods. The latest comic explicitly states that the dark one knows the secret of the Snarl, so no information that Durkon gives Redclaok will be new.
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2018-10-08, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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- The United States
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2018-10-08, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Tucson, AZ
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
If I had to guess what could possibly turn Redcloak, I'd have to say that this is where Jirix squishing the cockroach comes into play. Redcloak gave Azure City to the goblins because he wants to prove that they are just as capable of creating and maintaining civilization as any of the sentient races; if it's somehow revealed to Redcloak that Jirix went Full Self-Destructive Dictator immediately after Xykon and he disappeared, that might put just enough doubt in his mind to compromise--he would still have plenty of excuses for the goblins, but he might get just enough doubt to think that maybe a more cooperative approach to sealing the rifts is necessary.
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2018-10-08, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2018-10-08, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Torture? Not gonna happen
Rich is writing OoTS, not the TV show 24.
Do we think that magically compelling Redcloak to cast the spell would work?
Insofar as your suggestion regarding torture: Belkar will be for it, Roy will not. That conversation, if there is one, will be very, very short. It's outcome is known.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2018-10-08 at 07:46 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2018-10-08, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
If they destroy this world and build another as a result of the Godsmoot, the Dark One will not be involved in that building. He doesn't have any agreement with them to participate, so the three pantheons are not going to give him any decisions about it. OK, he could try to intrude, but that will just produce Snarl 2.0.
The SoD version is in crayons. Anything drawn in crayons is not to be considered perfectly accurate. It's all told second or third or even tenth hand and details may be wrong.Curated Thread: Gazetteer of the Stick
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2018-10-08, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
From the sense of the kind of story being told, how stories are more powerful when characters make their own decisions and are held to the consequences, and that Rich himself has said the latter regarding character deaths:
Redcloak won't be tortured into joining the heroes to seal the gate, because our heroes are in a classically heroic tale, not a gritty and grimdark one about antiheroes who have to become monsters to beat monsters.
Redcloak also won't be tricked or magically compelled into sealing the gate, because it cheapens the impact of the story if his own agency is taken out of the decision.
So... he's potentially in an even better position to blackmail the other gods?Last edited by Ruck; 2018-10-08 at 08:09 PM.
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2018-10-08, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
There are 3 OotS board games...
Dungeon Of Durakan
The Shortening (shorter version of the above)
and Linear Guild which IIRC is the expansion to the first.
It could be really awesome and epic if they made a board game taking place on the immortal planes, the various gods, the Dark One, and the Snarl. THAT is what the "wheeling and dealing" bg should've been (nm the DoD takes a bit too long, but I prefer to play that as a full-co-op... no backstabbing).
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2018-10-08, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2018
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
From the way Thor describes it here, the Dark One doesn't participate in things because he doesn't want to. But if he wants to be involved and the others say no, that's just asking for another Snarl to be created, and none of them want that.
If he tries to force his way in, they are not going to say no.
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2018-10-08, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2018-10-08, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
re: Xykon.
Xykon thinks that if the world is destroyed, his soul will regenerate inside his astral fortress.
He is almost certainly mistaken, since RC handed him a fake phylactery (831, 833).
Therefore, Xykon may well be willing to let the world burn, altho that isn't his primary plan.
Convincing RC to change the plan would be really hard. Ironically, this may be where Xykon is useful. Depending upon how Xykon backstabs RC, it might push RC to listen to the Order. However, this would only seem likely if Xykon's chosen method was a huge freaking bomb/plague/curse poised to destroy Gobbotopia if RC doesn't play along.
Convincing TD1 is similarly challenging, since he is clearly not listening.
TLDR: Expect cooperation only after RC has been stripped of all other options.
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2018-10-08, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
I like how panel 4 puts into perspective why gods like Tyr, Skadi, and Sunna (I think) would want to end the current world right away.
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2018-10-08, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Based on what we've seen in the last few comics, I do think we will see the Order and Redcloak working together. It fits best with what's been revealed - the fact that containing the Snarl requires to gods to come to an accommodation with the goblins - and with what Rich has shown us in of his beliefs, especially in GDGU. He will not write this comic that leaves an unjust status quo unaddressed.
I don't know yet how it will happen, but I'm confident that Rich can do it in a way that I find realistic. It won't be an easy path for any of the characters - least of all for Redcloak - but it can happen.
There are at least two possibilities for acieving it that I can see, though likely Rich will do something else I'm not expecting. First, Redcloak could, after considerable effort and conflict, be convinced that an option that achieves the Plan's goals - goblinoid equality - without risking the world's destruction is worthwhile, especially if it helps him get rid of Xykon in the process. Xykon is the main villain of the strip, Rich has said, and that means the Order and Redcloak have a common enemy. It's been clear ever since the retrieval of the phylactery that Redcloak is counting down the days until he can be rid of Xykon (and therefore finds the indefinite dungeon-crawl of the final Gate galling).
A second option is that Redcloak could be faced with the imminent danger of the Rift above Gobbotopia consuming the city, and have to choose between losing the city or helping the Order seal the Rift.
Regardless, his character arc is very far from over.Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2018-10-08 at 08:48 PM.
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2018-10-08, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Oooo... all this talk about stuff from SoD made me remember something:
Spoiler: SoD spoilersRedcloak and Right-Eye reveal in Start of Darkness that the three pantheons explicitly created goblins (and possibly other 'monster' races) to serve as XP fodder for their clerics (and by extension other adventurers). The Dark One learned about this upon ascension to godhood and was pissed. This information, to my knowledge, hasn't been shared with any of the protagonists yet. Imagine if Redcloak drops that particular bomb during negotiations.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-10-08, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2018
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2018-10-08, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
So what would happen to the dark one if the world is un-made? No more Goblins anymore, no seat at the table to help create the world....
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2018-10-08, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
So let me get this straight.
Is Thor's plan to get Redcloak's cooperation... with or without the Dark One's approval?
I mean, it's a hard sell to make.
I agree that Redcloak seems the most reasonable out of the two, but he's also received some very clear and direct orders from the Dark One.
He's had no qualms about fooling Xykon, but I don't see him disobeying his god.Last edited by ManuelSacha; 2018-10-08 at 10:10 PM.
When in doubt, set it on fire, right?
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2018-10-08, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe, but I honestly think that Thor would realize the inherent folly of trying to convince a cleric to directly oppose their own god.
It's more likely that given the lack of options Thor has of contacting the Dark One directly and that most gods probably aren't generally in the business of listening to any mortal that doesn't follow them directly, that Thor is going for the next best option: Having one of his clerics contact the Dark One's high cleric and essentially conducting the negotiations by proxy (and not necessarily the summoned kind). Because clerics aren't just followers of their god, they're representatives of their god in the mortal realm.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
Bodyguard in Lix's Harem
Ninja-Pirate of BvS's Privateer village! Come and join me!
My Extended Signature
My Pokemon!
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2018-10-08, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
TDO refusing to speak with the other gods (could be understandable or) could cast this in a different light. It's entirely possible that he does not *want* simply to negotiate for better treatment of the goblins, but actually wants to shift a gate to the outer planes to negotiate for his own power. He IS an evil deity, after all.
If that turns out to be the case, I'm not sure his interests align with Redcloak's. For all his faults, I suspect RC really is in it for the good of goblins. So, things could get very, very interesting.
Spoiler: Recruiting players IRL game Irving, TX
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2018-10-08, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2018
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
I was getting seriously bummed about the world's chances until the last panel. Then I laughed out loud and knew we'd be fine.
It'll be a wild ride, and I can't wait to see all the twists and turns, but we'll be fine.
This is gonna be great.
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2018-10-09, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
"A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everybody knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!"
Wouldn't you say Durkon's odds of convincing Redcloak to go along with this are one in a million?
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2018-10-09, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by woweedd; 2018-10-09 at 01:01 AM.
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2018-10-09, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think Redcloak will be tricked or coerced into helping. He has his own character arc, and I think Rich will be able to have it intersect with Durkon in an interesting way. It's a very hard thing he's asked to do, because we don't see how it comes about, but I have faith it will be satisfying.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2018-10-09, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1143 - The Discussion Thread
I figured that was just the Destruction domain ability.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists...tructionDomainMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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