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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Updated with a new Roll20 section and online summon management.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Updated for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

  3. - Top - End - #93

    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    I noticed that you rated the Annis hag as green/good: "Annis Hag- Bite, Claw, Claw, Grapple. Simple, yet effective."

    I think it's worth calling out that the grapple does insanely high damage, including as an opportunity attack.

    Crushing Hug. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 36 (9d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 15) if it is a Large or smaller creature. Until the grapple ends, the target takes 36 (9d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage at the start of each of the hag's turns. The hag can't make attacks while grappling a creature in this way.

    Bolded emphasis mine. If you hit once with a grapple you do 18d6+10 (73) total unless the enemy kills the Annis, burns an action to try to halve the damage, or is Huge or Gargantuan. After her turn starts, the Annis can either drop the grapple and do Crushing Hug again, or just maintain the grapple and Dash or Dodge or cast spells.

    With 75 HP, weapon resistance, and AC 17, she's also pretty tanky (almost as tanky as a raging mid-level Barbarian), and like a Raging Barbarian you sort of get double mileage out of healing spells that you cast on her between combats: 10 HP of healing cancels 20 HP of enemy damage rolls. She's got 40' movement so she can kite if she wants to (to turn enemy Multiattacks into single opportunity attacks), and she's got Disguise Self to stay unobtrusive between combats and/or possibly gain surprise or an opportunity attack at the start of a combat. An enemy might be willing to risk an opportunity attack from a plate armored but weaponless warrior in order to get to a squishy wizard, but if that "weaponless warrior" grabs him for 9d6+5 damage (with 9d6+5 more auto-damage incoming) AND grapples him so he can't actually reach the squishy... that's considerably better than a Sentinel Fighter.

    Anyway, I suggest you at least add words to the effect "Annis Hag: hits like a truck against Large or smaller enemies."

    Edit 2/27/2012: oh, I also noticed that you don't have the Quetzalcoatlus (Volo's) listed as a CR 2 choice, which is too bad because it does considerably more damage than the Giant Elk and has Flyby. There's a case to be made that Quetzalcoatlus is the best possible choice for a Shepherd Druid's Faithful Summons (4 monsters of your choice, CR 2 or under), although Giant Constrictor Snake is competitive too.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2021-02-27 at 11:56 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #94
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    I've updated my guide with a multiclass section after being requested to add one.

    Problem is I don't usually multiclass, so I would like some input on the section for veracity from people that multiclass. I notice a lot of multiclassing discussions on this forum so I figure it's a good place to be for that.

  5. - Top - End - #95
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Tashas clerics (order, peace, twilight) and life cleric are all amazing, borderline broken synergies.
    IMo the ranger choices would be really fun and mechanically strong. Like a swarm keeper dip.

    Rogue is a good 2 lvl dip for cunning action. Artificer is an ok dip (more temp hp and support). Then of course a conjuration wizard really expands the spell list.

    Shepherds kinda want to get to lvl6, then maintain spell slot progression, but really don’t benefit that much from either staying single class or multiclassing, so the rest is all kinda a bonus.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    Shepherds kinda want to get to lvl6, then maintain spell slot progression, but really don’t benefit that much from either staying single class or multiclassing, so the rest is all kinda a bonus.
    I'd say that taking one extra level for Conjure Woodland Beings, Freedom of Movement, and Fire Shield before MC'ing out is probably worth it.
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    "Oh no, I'm bleeding out of my eyes...it's only now that I see that the delivery fee isn't a substitute for tipping your pizza guy!"
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  7. - Top - End - #97
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Druids are tricky to multiclass out of. Or rather, they're really easy, especially Shepherds, but staying druid gives you so much.

    Lvl7: lvl4 spells. If all you use this for is occasionally casting Tidal Wave or Ice Storm, then that's fine. It's still more damage + CC with no concentration. Or just more Conjures for you. Conjure Woodland Beings can be brokenly strong.

    Lvl8: flying wildshape. Save your concentration, be a bird. Have another lvl4 slot too.

    Lvl9: have a lvl5 slot. Hey, you can now properly upcast Conjure Animals. Yay!

    Lvl10: It's nice doing it twice. Your totems now drip-heal conjured stuff too. This is actually pretty massive. Makes conjuring big things so much better.

    Lvl11: yep, lvl6 spells. Upcast Woodland Beings. Or just more-more upcasted Conjure Animals. You also do have other spells as well, just for variety :)

    Lvl12: have an ASI. This is "the weakest level". The one that makes your concentration nearly unbreakable or your Wis be 20. Or gives you a funky feat just for laughs.

    Lvl13: lvl7 slot. Double-upcast conjures, so you get plenty of big things. Or entire farms worth of smaller ones.

    It's only at or about lvl14 that you really stop getting "really nice stuff" with a shepherd. I mean, you *can* multiclass anytime after 6th, but there's not a lack of good things to have by going more druid. Lots more druid.

    And by lvl13+, everything you are getting from multiclassing feels like it's just rounding out a character concept. Most players don't really need advice on what to do by this point. Or the campaign is probably/nearly over.

    I can chuck up some suggestions, but there's not a lot to be had from them in many cases.


    (It's not you can't get these slots from normal full caster progression with wiz/sorc/cleric multiclassing, it's just that having a wide variety of higher level druid spells is pretty handy. So's the level 10 feature. Lots of things are though. Build however you want after lvl6)
    Last edited by sambojin; 2021-04-03 at 10:14 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhym View Post
    I've updated my guide with a multiclass section after being requested to add one.

    Problem is I don't usually multiclass, so I would like some input on the section for veracity from people that multiclass. I notice a lot of multiclassing discussions on this forum so I figure it's a good place to be for that.
    I've taken two one level dips on my shepherd druids and I'm quite liking them. Life cleric, as you mention in the guide, is fantastic. I would also like to give an honorable mention to divine soul sorcerer, which you rate poorly.

    I rolled stats, and already had 13 charisma, so that wasn't actually an issue for me, but I can definitely see it being one if you use point buy. However, one level in divine soul sorcerer provides a lot: the shield spell, some additional cantrips (booming blade/green flame blade are casting stat neutral and fantastic options if you have decent dex), and another button to push to avoid losing concentration every short rest. The feature that gives 2d4 to a save that refreshes on a short rest is one I find really appealing, personally, and it has saved me from quite a few close calls.

    Since the level 20 druid feature is mostly useful for moon druids, dipping out a couple levels isn't such a bad idea. Most shepherd druid power comes from upcasting conjure animals anyway.
    Last edited by Captain Panda; 2021-04-04 at 03:25 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Panda View Post
    I've taken two one level dips on my shepherd druids and I'm quite liking them. Life cleric, as you mention in the guide, is fantastic. I would also like to give an honorable mention to divine soul sorcerer, which you rate poorly.

    I rolled stats, and already had 13 charisma, so that wasn't actually an issue for me, but I can definitely see it being one if you use point buy. However, one level in divine soul sorcerer provides a lot: the shield spell, some additional cantrips (booming blade/green flame blade are casting stat neutral and fantastic options if you have decent dex), and another button to push to avoid losing concentration every short rest. The feature that gives 2d4 to a save that refreshes on a short rest is one I find really appealing, personally, and it has saved me from quite a few close calls.

    Since the level 20 druid feature is mostly useful for moon druids, dipping out a couple levels isn't such a bad idea. Most shepherd druid power comes from upcasting conjure animals anyway.
    Thank you. I'll have to add that.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by sambojin View Post
    Druids are tricky to multiclass out of. Or rather, they're really easy, especially Shepherds, but staying druid gives you so much.

    Lvl7: lvl4 spells. If all you use this for is occasionally casting Tidal Wave or Ice Storm, then that's fine. It's still more damage + CC with no concentration. Or just more Conjures for you. Conjure Woodland Beings can be brokenly strong.

    Lvl8: flying wildshape. Save your concentration, be a bird. Have another lvl4 slot too.

    Lvl9: have a lvl5 slot. Hey, you can now properly upcast Conjure Animals. Yay!

    Lvl10: It's nice doing it twice. Your totems now drip-heal conjured stuff too. This is actually pretty massive. Makes conjuring big things so much better.

    Lvl11: yep, lvl6 spells. Upcast Woodland Beings. Or just more-more upcasted Conjure Animals. You also do have other spells as well, just for variety :)

    Lvl12: have an ASI. This is "the weakest level". The one that makes your concentration nearly unbreakable or your Wis be 20. Or gives you a funky feat just for laughs.

    Lvl13: lvl7 slot. Double-upcast conjures, so you get plenty of big things. Or entire farms worth of smaller ones.

    It's only at or about lvl14 that you really stop getting "really nice stuff" with a shepherd. I mean, you *can* multiclass anytime after 6th, but there's not a lack of good things to have by going more druid. Lots more druid.

    And by lvl13+, everything you are getting from multiclassing feels like it's just rounding out a character concept. Most players don't really need advice on what to do by this point. Or the campaign is probably/nearly over.

    I can chuck up some suggestions, but there's not a lot to be had from them in many cases.


    (It's not you can't get these slots from normal full caster progression with wiz/sorc/cleric multiclassing, it's just that having a wide variety of higher level druid spells is pretty handy. So's the level 10 feature. Lots of things are though. Build however you want after lvl6)
    I agree. Other than Life Cleric 1, it's better to stick with straight Shepherd unless you like multiclassing.

  11. - Top - End - #101
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhym View Post
    I agree. Other than Life Cleric 1, it's better to stick with straight Shepherd unless you like multiclassing.
    I'd definitely argue that Peace domain is at least comparable if not superior to life1. The level 1 ability by itself is good for your summons but wouldl probably be optimally utilized on your other party members. However if you can drop it on one of the big grapple summons as your proficiency scales up and you get more additions, the extra d4 to saves and their grapple skill checks is pretty impressive.

    The level 2 ability however is *crazy* good for a shepherd druid. Free dash/disengage and a big aoe heal to all your summons with a channel divinity is at least comparable in net efficiency to the level 10 feature a Shepherd gets. That can be worth nearly a full heal to the cr1/4 summons.

    Now the level 6 ability simply breaks the game for the Shepherd, however it comes quite late assuming you waited till after lvl 6-7 (and thus only get it in mid tier 3). But the ability to simply tag all your summons and use them to take hits against you is outrageous. If you played it suboptimally and were simply selfish with the ability, you'd be amongst the best tanks in the game (prof times hits into misses per turn). Oh and permanent misty step reactions to move you away is nice as well.

    Twilight domain is a little less optimal b/c the channel divinity scales with cleric level. Still 1d6 + clr lvl temp hp each round, advantage to iniatitive, flight and the extra darkvision is a pretty large boost to the little armies survivability and firepower. If I was a lvl 14 monoclass shepherd, i'd be tempted to get a few levels of that.. For instance the 2 lvl dip is definitely, undeniably strong and I think worth the loss of druid endgame featues which don't really mechanically fit.
    Last edited by Hael; 2021-04-05 at 03:59 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    I'd definitely argue that Peace domain is at least comparable if not superior to life1. The level 1 ability by itself is good for your summons but wouldl probably be optimally utilized on your other party members. However if you can drop it on one of the big grapple summons as your proficiency scales up and you get more additions, the extra d4 to saves and their grapple skill checks is pretty impressive.

    The level 2 ability however is *crazy* good for a shepherd druid. Free dash/disengage and a big aoe heal to all your summons with a channel divinity is at least comparable in net efficiency to the level 10 feature a Shepherd gets. That can be worth nearly a full heal to the cr1/4 summons.

    Now the level 6 ability simply breaks the game for the Shepherd, however it comes quite late assuming you waited till after lvl 6-7 (and thus only get it in mid tier 3). But the ability to simply tag all your summons and use them to take hits against you is outrageous. If you played it suboptimally and were simply selfish with the ability, you'd be amongst the best tanks in the game (prof times hits into misses per turn). Oh and permanent misty step reactions to move you away is nice as well.

    Twilight domain is a little less optimal b/c the channel divinity scales with cleric level. Still 1d6 + clr lvl temp hp each round, advantage to iniatitive, flight and the extra darkvision is a pretty large boost to the little armies survivability and firepower. If I was a lvl 14 monoclass shepherd, i'd be tempted to get a few levels of that.. For instance the 2 lvl dip is definitely, undeniably strong and I think worth the loss of druid endgame featues which don't really mechanically fit.
    Peace is so new I never really looked at deeply before and haven't had the chance to play with it, but yeah it looks super good for Shepherds. They do offer different things though. While Peace gives a lot of combat options, Life still is unparalleled for support with its broken healing. I suppose it depends on what kind of Druid people want to build.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Not sure if this got said earlier, but with Aberrant Dragonmark, the HD effect is still worth it. It only damages you if you have no enemy within 30 ft, otherwise it damages an enemy, which obviously is good. And sometimes you don't have THP, for one reason or another. So if you have no THP (or very little) and you have an enemy within 30 ft when you need to Shield, it's definitely worth popping that hit die.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Shepherd Druid Guide to Fuzzy Fury

    Updated the spreadsheet and guide with some new information.

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