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2013-09-18, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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2013-09-18, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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2013-09-18, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Really? After the Wizard casts Stoneskin or Protection From Arrows, some sort of flying spell, and Greater Invisibility, and goes 20-30 feet in the air, how exactly does a same-level non-caster attack him effectively?
While up there, the Wizard can cast multiple Summons, or blaster spells (Vaarsuvius' forte, and sub-optimal), or save-or-die spells. Or, if he's feeling nice and his objectives allow for it, cause the sound of retreating footsteps to occur so the Fighter will run past him and leave the way clear for him to proceed.
The Wizard is a Tier 1 class. Above level 10 or so, in an encounter (or an entire dungeon) designed for a party consisting of a single Tier 1 character and four Tier 3 characters, the single Tier 1 character should be able to solo it.My blog: Alien America - amusing incidents and creative misinterpretations
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2013-09-18, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Getting back to the theme song; here's a punk version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HvXtadPpQw
Goodness gracious, Great Balls of Fire!
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2013-09-18, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
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Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
V's sudden appearance on the battlefield is not a Deus Ex Machina, at least not to us, the readers. To the rest of the Order? Potentially.
1) A Deus Ex Machina is a Solution to a problem the characters are facing. V's appearance, is a solution. Here's a Goldstarsmilie face.
2) Vaarsuvius' re-appearance was both earlier alluded to. We saw V attempting to communicate with the Order before they damaged the Gate, and we knew well in-advance that V's benching would be temporary. Furthermore, as a High Level wizard, it makes perfect sense for V to be able to turn the tides, and it makes perfect sense for V to help the Order at the drop of a hat because of already established characterization (why V would help them in the first place, why V would not hesitate, etc.)
3) The Order was NOT in a hopeless situation that couldn't have been resolved without V. Durkula and Elan were in no danger, and Durkula is still going to get his spells back at Dusk. Haley is pretty safe given both high DEX and the fact that Tarquin somewhat-begrudgingly ships Haley x Elan. Roy and Belkar are the only ones in trouble, and we already know they have a pretty good plan which involves throwing sand up for concealment, taking cover, and waiting for Durkula to wreck someone's face. They are rather consistently taking down opponents, which means not only are they getting more cover from enemy corpses, but they're also facing less opposition and the enemy has less ammunition.
It is sort of a "Big Damn Heroes" moment. Although, really, it's just Vaarsuvius serving as reinforcements.
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2013-09-18, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
In this fight yes.
But the original quote was that V "saved the day", and yes she did. But I feel like it's unfair to say "has done more than the rest of the party" because it discounts how much the Order has done while V was taking her Hell Nap (really bad reference to Belkar using the term "dirt nap" before).
I guess it's not important though.
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2013-09-18, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Aldain
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
As promised last thread -
She/he/V-ian Rhapsody
to the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody, by Queen
(I recomend listening along as you read)
Is this the real life?
Or gaming parody?
Wield arcane power
with my superior wizardry.
Open your eyes!
Look under the Gate! It’s me!
I’m just a poor elf, who dealt with IFCC,
With them it’s easy come, hard to go,
their profits - high, their wager - low,
And when blue orb glowed, it gave the power of three, to Darth V.
Inky! Just killed a dragon,
Put a spell against its head,
Now her entire race is dead.
Inky! I must save everyone,
I really can’t just throw this power away.
Draketooths! Nooooo,
Didn't mean to make you die,
I must amend my discretions for a better tomorrow,
Roy stop! Knock knock! You know nothing on these matters.
Too late, Cedrik’s time has come,
Failed to shatter Xykon’s spine,
Now I’m paying for my crime.
Goodbye, to my body, to Hell I go,
Gotta leave you behind. This feels uncouth.
Krakak! Ooooooom! (that’s the way the Gate blows),
But I haven’t died,
Under my understanding - this shouldn’t possible.
I can’t even see a silhouetto of your plan,
Scarammmph! Scarammmph! Magic gag from Nero.
Malak dies from lighting,
Durkon kills my opponent, Zz’dtri.
(Dramatic Moment) Dramatic Moment.
(No Attonement) No Attonement,
Tarquin gives Nale a killing blow.
No saving throw!
I'm just a Raven and why does this affect me?
You're a familiar, so your soul’s linked to V,
Sparing your lives from all damage on the TV.
Easy there, Sabine, no! Will you let me go?
Bismillah! No! This couch - I have to throw.
(Have to throw!) Nale’s dead, ‘cause I was banished here below.
(Here below!) What a mess! Repayment you will owe.
(You will owe!) Tarquin doesn’t know.
(Doesn’t know!) Revenge I will bestow
(Good thing I sent up my Teevo!) Ah.
Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic- Ding!
(Oh the bell, oh the bell) It’s been swell, time to go.
Vaarsuvius! Go up and knock ‘em dead for me, for me, for me!
Hard to see with this sand in my eye!
Now to cast elemental spells that make enemies die!
Oh, party! I’ve returned to my party!
Fire wall is up, It appears we will make our stand here.
(Oh, yeah, oh yeah)
I apologize for my absence,
Greenhilt and Party,
Most know nothing of these matters,
Nothing of these matters…but me.
(Ocean wind from rift blows)
Enjoy folks!Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes
World Building Projects:
Magic: The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology
Order of the Stick Projects:
Annotation of the Comic | Magic Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
(you can't take the sky from me)
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2013-09-18, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Arad, Israel
- Gender
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2013-09-18, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
There's another critical difference. While the Order could have fought against the attacking army and done a lot of damage, they could not defend the entire city on their own. Or even in combination with the paladins. Not enough of them, too large an army. Enough of the army mooks could just *go around* them to destroy the city.
These army mooks do not have the option of going around Roy to get to their objective - Roy *is* their objective. (Also it's a much smaller army.)My blog: Alien America - amusing incidents and creative misinterpretations
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2013-09-18, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
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2013-09-18, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Arad, Israel
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-09-18, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Midwest US
- Gender
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2013-09-18, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
So now we see why The Giant needs to keep V off screen - just like Tolkien and Gandalf. The desperate battle just turned into a slaughter, with V doing the slaughtering.
Tarquin's counter-move will be next. And Elan and Haley are outside the ring of fire, so he can easily have his fellows launch their full efforts at those within.
Will Laurin and Miron go along?
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2013-09-18, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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2013-09-18, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- La Puente, CA
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
A-We are talking plot, not rules mechanics, here. And the plot says the party is under dire threat here. The actual rules don't matter in the least. The script says the party is in desperate straits here, and so they are. [The script also says they will survive, and so they shall, again with no regard to what the rules say.]
B-We get the same result when we talk rules. The party is still doomed, unless Tarquin or others call off the army. Sure they kill hundreds, even thousands of the mooks, but they keep taking little bits of damage and it adds up. The party flees or dies.
Now V kills a lot of the wimps, but all his spells are dailies. For the next minutes, she rules. Thereafter, he is an empty gas can. She can give the party some time, and provide a way to retreat, but he doesn't change the result. She too must flee or die.
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2013-09-18, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Wombat of doom, you just won everything, and have become the second greatest poster on the GITP forums after Atticusxt.
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2013-09-18, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
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2013-09-18, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2013-09-18, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-09-18, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
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2013-09-18, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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2013-09-18, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
You're right. Even if Tarquin succeeded in killing Roy, we have confirmation that Elan could easily go to a tavern and find some other leader to serve.
Have you read On the Origin of the PCs?
Spoiler
His mentor was Sir Francois. When Francois left him, he found Roy in a bar.
Also, when Francois, left him, Elan said, "Awww, not again!" This implies previous mentors as well.
Roy isn't his original mentor. Roy is just the only one who didn't get rid of him (although he came close, in the forest).
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2013-09-18, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Then he's not casting his collection of, "I can't be affected by anything because reasons," spells while you're snapping his neck.
Flight spells don't have a strength score, nor do they serve as anchors. You can play a game where they give you all that and a pony, but I prefer something closer to sword and sorcery simulation.
Getting back to the comic, it's why the Giant opted to avoid optimization. It's a story killer.Last edited by Shatteredtower; 2013-09-18 at 12:45 PM.
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2013-09-18, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
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2013-09-18, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
I can't see them deciding he's a liability. I CAN see them deciding he's wasting too many resources on a personal matter and voting to pull out. Then we'll see what his much-vaunted team chemistry is really worth.
*cough Greater Invisibility cough*
How's he supposed to land that?
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2013-09-18, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Gender
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2013-09-18, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- Salt Lake City
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
V is OP. Petition to nerf V.
(On a side note to emphasize talents, Fighters are excellent one on one fighters because of high level defenses and high attack ratings, so the wizard is better suited to be a support piece with the tanks up front. we're talking role playing 101 here.)
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2013-09-18, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Hmmm.... wonder if something like normal morale plays a role in the Stickworld? A force, even one as disciplined as Tarquin's generic mook-plot spoiler division, that takes such huge losses as they must have by now would start to waver in their morale/desire to get to the enemy just to get killed. IRL it would likely end in a rout with the defeated force fleeing back through the entry gate if it is still active.
Guess they have plot-morale... i.e. they will fight as long as it serves the purpose of the story and storytelling. Would make sense to me.
Fine with me. Love the story and wait with great expectations on the remaining million (I hope) installments of the adventure.
Thanks, mr. Giant, for a great story and a super reentry of V. Excellent.
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2013-09-18, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- The Chi
- Gender
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Recall, V was out of play for less than half an hour and just got in an opening salvo. There may have not been enough time for the army to get the message that they are fighting a battle against a group of army killers.
Also note that at their head is a party that is apparently higher-level and a lot nastier than the heroes, and can have the soldier's families killed if the soldiers desert.
I expect to see higher level involvement by Team Tarquin in the next strip.The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.
Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar
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2013-09-18, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #919 - The Discussion Thread
Azure City was assaulted by 10.000+ hobgoblins with spell casters plus X/RC and several skeletal thingies plus zombies and other undead (many raised during the battle by Tsukiko).