Ionathus's Random Banter #249 -- Directionless Rambling Is Now Mandatory

[Form]

I have finally crafted the perfect soup. Or well, more like a broth at this point. Tomato soup base, tomatoes, mushrooms, vegetable mix, soup balls (beef), some fried onions and enough basmati rice to brothify the soup. The only way to improve it would be to swap out the vegetable mix or tomatoes for some lean beef blocks, but that would mean sacrificing nutrition for deliciousness. Or I could just add it, but then there'd be too much of the soup. An unsolvable dilemma!

[Anonymouswizard]

Politely: You're both wrong and Bartmanhomer is righter. I'm honestly unsure why some people feel uncomfortable with Bartmanhomer's post.

No, Bartmanhomer is wrong. The fact that ND people CAN BE disabled due to their conditions does not make the conditions themselves disabilities.

"Neurodivergent" and its sister word, "neurotypical," do not refer to brain states or to people with certain brain states.

Neurodivergency can absolutely refer to disabilities and disorders. Someone with major depressive disorder is neurodivergent. Someone with schizophrenia is neurodivergent.

Maybe technically, but in common parlance it generally refers to five conditions: autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and dyscalculia.

Even in the broader sense while it includes disabilities they do not make up the entirety of it. It's basically a shorter way of saying 'thought process does not fall in the band we consider normal'.

The division between learning, social, and mental disabilities doesn't really make much sense. Surely the former two are subsets of the latter. And obviously someone who has a cognitive disability or delusions also processes information differently than people without them.

Yes, but what Bartmanhomer said is still wrong. Easy to reword into something correct, but as it's phrased just wrong.

[Bartmanhomer]

No, Bartmanhomer is wrong. The fact that ND people CAN BE disabled due to their conditions does not make the conditions themselves disabilities.



Maybe technically, but in common parlance it generally refers to five conditions: autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and dyscalculia.

Even in the broader sense while it includes disabilities they do not make up the entirety of it. It's basically a shorter way of saying 'thought process does not fall in the band we consider normal'.



Yes, but what Bartmanhomer said is still wrong. Easy to reword into something correct, but as it's phrased just wrong.

And I apologize for my ignorance about that.

[Anonymouswizard]

And I apologize for my ignorance about that.

Which is fine and dandy, I remembering misunderstanding the word at first.

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't know if I told anyone about this but I'm a dog person (To clarify: I love dogs).

[Batcathat]

Dogs are alright, but I've always felt that owning one seems a bit like the pet equivalent of having a way too clingy and needy partner.

[Anonymouswizard]

I don't know if I told anyone about this but I'm a dog person

Ah, an escapee from a secret government research facility!

(To clarify: I love dogs).

*hisses*

[Bartmanhomer]

Dogs are alright, but I've always felt that owning one seems a bit like the pet equivalent of having a way too clingy and needy partner.

I understand where you coming from. Dogs can be a very huge responsibility.

Anyway every time I saw a dog at the street, I said "Cute doggy. Hi doggy."

[Metastachydium]

Hmph. I see whats going on here, let me cut this off before it gets out of control: I apologize for speaking for others rather than my own experiences.

Oh, man. I could have prevented this, but arrived late! You see, linguistics actually has your back here. In pragmatics, there is an important distinction between an exclusive and an inclusive we. One means 'me and others that I speak for, not including my current interlocutor(s)'; the other means 'me and my interlocutor(s), as well as, optionally, others that I speak for'. An interlocutior engaging with your statements in good faith simply has the option of considering any or all of your wes exclusive, and not find them objectionable in any way.

I'm seeing a lot of flats and some small houses with shower rooms instead of bathrooms. It's clearly a smaller, cheaper, room for a housing builder.

Wait, you folks only call a bathroom a bathroom if it has one of those clunky bathtubs?! The horror!

Not gonna lie, I saw that out of the corner of my eye as "horse hunting" and was terribly confused for just, so many reasons.

Why, what did you think those red splotches were?

Has anyone else not done anything meaningfully productive?

I'm not doing anything meaningfully productive most of the time, so… [Waves.]

Neurodivergency can absolutely refer to disabilities and disorders. Someone with major depressive disorder is neurodivergent. Someone with schizophrenia is neurodivergent.

The division between learning, social, and mental disabilities doesn't really make much sense. Surely the former two are subsets of the latter. And obviously someone who has a cognitive disability or delusions also processes information differently than people without them.

Even in the broader sense while it includes disabilities they do not make up the entirety of it. It's basically a shorter way of saying 'thought process does not fall in the band we consider normal'.

And speaking of "the band we consider normal", even if in a clinical sense one can classify such conditions as disabilities (which is often indeed possible), I'd still understand what the issue is here. See, in the strictest sense, any sexual behaviour that cannot have a reproductive functionality can be accurately described as a paraphilia, but there's a reason why nobody ever uses the term so broadly anymore.

Just to use a completely unrelated analogy free from judgement, imagine if he had instead said "I learned what flowers are today! Theyre plants with purple petals!" And now you can probably see why he is wrong.

↑This man, he understands me.↑

♣

In unrelated news, today I met a violet carpenter bee (who was, of course, all black and blue, and not at all violet) and saw one of the big fat magpies chasing little starlings, this time, who BRAZENLY infringed on the magpie's domain. Those were nice and funny, respectively

[Bartmanhomer]

Ah, an escapee from a secret government research facility!



*hisses*

I can tell that you're a cat person.

[Anonymouswizard]

I can tell that you're a cat person.

Mao.

I'm also a cynaphobe, as I've admitted previously.

[LaZodiac]

I have important news for all of you;

Mario, canonically, beats transphobes unconscious with hammers in defense of trans women.

God I can't wait for the Thousand Year Door remake...

[Rater202]

I have important news for all of you;

Mario, canonically, beats transphobes unconscious with hammers in defense of trans women.

God I can't wait for the Thousand Year Door remake...

"Checks details"

Yes!

Well, I got everything I wanted out of the remake already. Now, how do I harvest salt from tears? I'm craving popcorn and there's gonna be a lot of crying transphobes soon.

[Bartmanhomer]

Mao.

I'm also a cynaphobe, as I've admitted previously.

I googled cynaphobe and it means a fear or dogs and canines. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[TaiLiu]

No, Bartmanhomer is wrong. The fact that ND people CAN BE disabled due to their conditions does not make the conditions themselves disabilities...

Yes, but what Bartmanhomer said is still wrong. Easy to reword into something correct, but as it's phrased just wrong.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to be making a distinction that I don't understand.

Sure. But in correcting him, you and Bookmark revealed what I considered to be erroneous ideas about neurodivergence, too.

Maybe technically, but in common parlance it generally refers to five conditions: autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and dyscalculia.

Even in the broader sense while it includes disabilities they do not make up the entirety of it. It's basically a shorter way of saying 'thought process does not fall in the band we consider normal'.

That's an odd level of specificity. It's not clear why the label should be so restricted, given the definition you provided. And there's no benefit.

Why deny individuals with intellectual disabilities the neurodivergent label? Schizophrenia? Personality disorders? Surely they have thought processes that many consider abnormal. Like people with autism, ADHD, and the three dyses, they face discrimination and a world that often fails to accommodate them.

When I read about the experiences of people with Down syndrome or schizoid personality disorder or other neurodivergencies, I relate. I think: That's not fair! I hate dealing with that. You deserve better, and so do I. I feel a sense of solidarity with them. Don't you?

And speaking of "the band we consider normal", even if in a clinical sense one can classify such conditions as disabilities (which is often indeed possible), I'd still understand what the issue is here. See, in the strictest sense, any sexual behaviour that cannot have a reproductive functionality can be accurately described as a paraphilia, but there's a reason why nobody ever uses the term so broadly anymore.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that I'm using "neurodivergent" too broadly? Or something else?

In unrelated news, today I met a violet carpenter bee (who was, of course, all black and blue, and not at all violet) and saw one of the big fat magpies chasing little starlings, this time, who BRAZENLY infringed on the magpie's domain. Those were nice and funny, respectively

Wow! That sounds really cool.

I have important news for all of you:

Mario, canonically, beats transphobes unconscious with hammers in defense of trans women.

God I can't wait for the Thousand Year Door remake...

Isn't it only one trans woman? But yeah, it sucks that they took it out in the English localization. Glad she's back in. Someone on the localization team fought for this, didn't they?

I wonder if transphobes, unfamiliar with Paper Mario history, will complain about Nintendo when the game comes out.

[Lord Raziere]

I have important news for all of you;

Mario, canonically, beats transphobes unconscious with hammers in defense of trans women.

God I can't wait for the Thousand Year Door remake...

YES!

......Hm. but now torn between getting thousand year door remake.....the Elden Ring DLC....or something else to express my transgenderness for my next birthday....its in a month but I have to plan how to celebrate it somehow.....

[LaZodiac]

Isn't it only one trans woman? But yeah, it sucks that they took it out in the English localization. Glad she's back in. Someone on the localization team fought for this, didn't they?

I wonder if transphobes, unfamiliar with Paper Mario history, will complain about Nintendo when the game comes out.

If you bludgeon a transphobe to death in defense of one trans woman, you'd do it for others, I feel. It's the symbolism of the act. And yup!

They already are, and already twisting themselves into knots about it. I love when the worst people on earth get mad.

YES!

......Hm. but now torn between getting thousand year door remake.....the Elden Ring DLC....or something else to express my transgenderness for my next birthday....its in a month but I have to plan how to celebrate it somehow.....

If it influences your decision at all; I will be streaming Thousand Year Door with Robin soon.

[Lord Raziere]

If it influences your decision at all; I will be streaming Thousand Year Door with Robin soon.

......well yeah I know.

but the temptation to like, play the remake myself is there because its TTYD y'know? its a really good game that looked good even before the changes, and I no longer have my gamecube. but yeah, probably best to just save my money for Elden Ring DLC.

[Rater202]

Did some reading, and it gets better.

See, while the orignal Japanese presented her as Trans, and presented Bedlam as deliberately misgendering her as a **** move while the heroic characters accepted her as a woman... The presentation of facts has aged poorly. For example, the narration refers to her relationship with the other shadows with a term that translates as "little brother" at one point, and language alluding to her trans status is ambiguous despite the intent being clear. Additionally, she has a cameo as a collectible card in Super Paper Mario and the Japanese version of that card's description uses a term that typically is used for feminine men or male crossdressers.

Japanese language preview footage shows that in the Remake, the narration refers to her as female and the language alluding to her trans status is completely unambiguous.

So it's not just a lack of censorship in translations but an active effort to be clearer and more respectful in terms of representation.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's ****ing sad that bigotry still exists in today's society, especially in the LGBT community.

[Lord Raziere]

It's ****ing sad that bigotry still exists in today's society, especially in the LGBT community.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you mean "towards the LGBT community". please learn to think before you speak before you say something that can really hurt someone or something, like in your life in general to avoid potential harm to yourself, if not others, your really playing with dynamite with the some of the things you choose to comment on without thinking or carelessly wording it.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you mean "towards the LGBT community". please learn to think before you speak before you say something that can hurt someone or something, like in your life in general to avoid potential harm to yourself, if not others, you playing with dynamite with the some of the things you choose to comment on without thinking or carelessly wording it.

I support the LGBT Community. I don't know what was so offensive about the words I said. I have never said anything horrible about the LGBT Community. I have friends who are gay. So I don't know what is your problem about what I said.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you mean "towards the LGBT community". please learn to think before you speak before you say something that can really hurt someone or something, like in your life in general to avoid potential harm to yourself, if not others, your really playing with dynamite with the some of the things you choose to comment on without thinking or carelessly wording it.

Eh, while I think Bartmanhomer's comment a bit out of left field, I do think bigotry within the LGBTQIA+ community is bollocks. Whether that's transphobic lesbians, misogynistic gay men, or those that try to other parts of the community to appeal to bigots, it's a load of ****.

...of course I don't think Bartmanhomer meant that. But it's still a legitimate issue that needs to be dealt with. Yes the parts of the community I interact with are wonderful and supportive, but not all of it is.

[Lord Raziere]

...of course I don't think Bartmanhomer meant that. But it's still a legitimate issue that needs to be dealt with. Yes the parts of the community I interact with are wonderful and supportive, but not all of it is.

Okay???

Not really my point. thinking before you speak is a universal life problem, that just so happens to be intersecting here. your continuing efforts to point out these depressing facts out to me does not somehow fix what he says.

[Anonymouswizard]

Okay???

Not really my point. thinking before you speak is a universal life problem, that just so happens to be intersecting here. your continuing efforts to point out these depressing facts out to me does not somehow fix what he says.

Bartmanhomer is not in the wrong here, you are. His statement was valid and truthful, whether or not it was intentional or depressing, and your response was to lash out and tell him to think about what he says.

Yes it is at least sometimes a valid criticism of his posts, but here? What he said was a little weird, but not actually bad.

[Lord Raziere]

Bartmanhomer is not in the wrong here, you are. His statement was valid and truthful, whether or not it was intentional or depressing, and your response was to lash out and tell him to think about what he says.

Yes it is at least sometimes a valid criticism of his posts, but here? What he said was a little weird, but not actually bad.

I was giving him advice, he has a flaw that he needs to correct and I rightly pointed it out. I did not lash out and in fact gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I see this is going nowhere if your determined throw it back in my face with anger over nothing and continue to ignore it. Don't come crying to me if he says something that cannot be taken back.

[Anonymouswizard]

I was giving him advice, he has a flaw that he needs to correct and I rightly pointed it out. I did not lash out and in fact gave him the benefit of the doubt,

No, you told him to change a valid statement because it made you uncomfortable. There were many other ways you could have inquired about his meaning, but you decided to jump to confrontational.

Was his response to you good? No, in fact he literally used a 'I can't be racist sone of my friends are black' defence. But honestly I find it much less offensive, and he is willing to stand by a true statement.

but I see this is going nowhere if your determined throw it back in my face with anger over nothing and continue to ignore it. Don't come crying to me if he says something that cannot be taken back.

Calling out Bartmanhomer can be valid, and has been done in random banter before. Maybe he will one day say something so offensive it causes major issues, but here? It's just an uncomfortable truth.

Hell we have no idea what prompted this, he could have been expressing his feelings over a LGBTQIA+ person being bigotted towards him. Personally I suspect YouTube is involved somehow, I remember he used to have issues with it.

[BisectedBrioche]

This is a great day. Not only is Vivian canonically trans, but we have the Bedlam react for transphobic comments now.

Compared to, say, when Bridget was confirmed as a trans girl, but there was no specific character misgendering her, the presence of antagonism within the text has provided a point of comparison for individuals trying to deny the character's transness in the audience.

And that's beautiful. <3

[Bartmanhomer]

Just to let everyone know. I quit YouTube almost a year ago because it was very toxic. That is because you haven't seen me complain about YouTube here.

[Keltest]

No, you told him to change a valid statement because it made you uncomfortable. There were many other ways you could have inquired about his meaning, but you decided to jump to confrontational.

Was his response to you good? No, in fact he literally used a 'I can't be racist sone of my friends are black' defence. But honestly I find it much less offensive, and he is willing to stand by a true statement.



Calling out Bartmanhomer can be valid, and has been done in random banter before. Maybe he will one day say something so offensive it causes major issues, but here? It's just an uncomfortable truth.

Hell we have no idea what prompted this, he could have been expressing his feelings over a LGBTQIA+ person being bigotted towards him. Personally I suspect YouTube is involved somehow, I remember he used to have issues with it.

Beyond this, Bartmanhomer also has explicitly had issues with learning his English. He already knows it isn't perfect. Jumping down his throat about it is not helpful to that end.