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2024-05-16, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
So the new hotness is also the best hotness? Sounds like powercreep... Why would I play the updated Berzerker when the other option is a Gundam mobile suit... And Sea sounds like 'yeah, we nerfed Moon into the dirt, so here's something we hope you REALLY like!'
This too... hopefully they'll include a sidebar for it that explains how it works in, well, basically everywhere except Kobold Press's Midgard setting. /shrug.Trollbait extraordinaire
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2024-05-16, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2024-05-16, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Pretty sure I didn't say anything about it being "best." World Tree can teleport people, but Wildheart can fly + get a bunch of resistances, while Berserker is immune to charm and frighten and does the most raw damage, and Zealot is basically unkillable and can protect the entire party's saves. They're all good at different things, which is exactly what subclasses should be.
(And to be blunt, I don't understand why "power creep" is a dirty word around here either. Do you really think 2014 designs/power levels were perfect and can't be improved on? Because if so, all I can say is I'm glad you're not in charge of printing any books.)
Moon actually got buffed, I just personally hate it because they haven't really fixed the wonky beast scaling or book diving (though for the latter, at least having limited forms and locking you to the PHB without DM approval cuts down on that.) In practice, experienced druid players won't notice the limit anyway because they'll do what they always did, i.e. pick the forms that are blue and green in the wildshape handbook, and inexperienced players will likely be at easy tables so it won't matter what they pick anyway. Most of your damage will be from Fount of Moonlight or grappling enemies in your moonbeam etc rather than the animal form itself.
Well to be fair, we don't know the circumstances of Aylin's birth either. But I agree with your overarching point that the game simply calling her an Aasimar and implying that's where her very singular traits come from is misleading at best.Last edited by Psyren; 2024-05-16 at 10:34 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-05-16, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
I was one of many, it seems, who made the point on "Tieflings/Aasimar" need to both be in or neither need to be in. Glad they went with both.
+100
Agree.
No. Please don't.
And the price point is great ;)
False.
You can play D&D without ever crafting anything.
Granted: in the original game, Magic Users (who could become wizards) were able to make magic items (potions at level 6 or 7). A form of crafting has been with us for a while, but There Was A Chance To Fail.
I dislike the "push button, get banana" approach to crafting magical items.
There needs to be a chance to fail, or for it to come out with unintended side effects.
(I realize that this isn't a universally held opinion).
Also: Genasi Needs to be Core! Dump the Gnomes! Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
(I like goliath being core, though).
Yeah, there is some room to work with overlap.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2024-05-16 at 02:30 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-05-16, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
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- Paris, France
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
I believe that WotC is sticking to the assumption that all campaign settings have been or will be eaten by Planescape, where the World Tree is a living portal hub connecting various Norse-themed locations scattered through the planes of the Great Wheel.
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2024-05-16, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2021
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
If warlocks don't get Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron on their list, I am going to be very upset. I've been wanting a cauldron focused warlock since I started playing them in 3.5.
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2024-05-17, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- Jacksonville, FL
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
I simply don't believe planetouched races/species/whatever should be in Core. They should be readily available, but Core feels inappropriate to me.
I suggest Planescape because the only published place you're likely to find them en masse is Sigil; they're rare in Greyhawk, Faerun, Eberron, etc.
Oh, for sure. There's no putting the genie back in that bottle. Consider that comment of mine a lament rather than a suggestion.
And since removing them isn't an option, including something in core to be their counterpart makes sense. If it wasn't going to be Ardling, which I still loved the concept of, I'll take Aasimar.
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2024-05-17, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2024-05-17, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
There are winged tieflings, a winged assimar isn't all that concerning. Also Dame Alyn is a Paladin along with that, she isn't all that different than what a Chosen of Mystra is to a wizard.
Still mad you can't get her as a party member in act three, I hope mods have fixed that grievous error.My sig is something witty.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2024-05-17, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-05-17, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
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- Albuquerque, NM
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2024-05-17, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
4e is absolutely crammed with abject lessons on what happens when you confuse vocal forum/messageboard discourse with the actual preferences of your wider playerbase
Thankfully, they have far superior data collection nowadays.
There is one in Planescape, which means there is one in the Multiverse. I don't see how that is so different than assuming there is a Feywild connected to every world in some way, like Fey Wanderer/Dreams Druid/Glamour Bard do.
And you glossed over the "reflavor" point, but that really is the solution if you truly want your world to be disconnected from the concept of a multiversal tree. The key point to capture is a barbarian that can reposition allies and enemies; I could reconfigure it to be based on Astral or Graviturgic magic and still capture everything it does.
Look, I'm sorry you feel this way, but settings are allowed to evolve. Tieflings WERE rare, then DiA happened and now there's an explosion of them on the Sword Coast. Dragonborn WERE rare, and then the link to Abeir was reestablished. Core should represent the current state of the world(s) for that edition, not cling to some past portrayal and set of assumptions.
There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-17, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
That's fair. And yea, reflavoring is really easy. Perhaps it's just me, but I find it easier to assume a setting has a mystical "Feywild" than to assume it has a Norse World Tree. But regardless, it's moot at this point since the Barb is pretty much set in stone, as far as we know.
There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.Spoiler: Major BG3 Act 3 Spoiler
Interestingly, you actually can kill Lorroakan after giving him the Nightsong and making him "immortal". There's even an achievement for it.
Insert Clever Signature Here
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2024-05-17, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Last edited by da newt; 2024-05-17 at 10:56 AM.
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2024-05-17, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds. This allows us to move away from humans being the only ones allowed to be half-X (so now you can have an Orc/Dwarf hybrid or a high-elf/drow mix) and it will make space for the missing half-races you mentioned in the bold. Paizo is doing something similar on their side as well, just with more mechanical weight behind it.
Last edited by Psyren; 2024-05-17 at 11:16 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-05-17, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
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- Paris, France
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
You forgot half-giants (goliath). And methinks the important question here is whether the full creature would be too much for a PC and needs to be halved. You can play an elf or an orc just fine, while a ling would obviously be overkill.
BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?
That is, more than none. 5.5 will just have you pick a species and reflavor it as being half another.
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2024-05-17, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
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- Los Angeles, CA
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Ironic that, with the name change to "species" (which I am a big proponent of), they are also eliminating the aspect that actually defines what a species is. When the mechanics mean "species", the designers say "race". When the mechanics say (cosmetic/race/ethnicity), they say "species".
Keep species, but make it mean something, imo.
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2024-05-17, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2024-05-17, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
"Guidance" then, if you find "rule" objectionable for whatever reason. The point is that it will be explicitly allowed in the PHB; that's not just good for players, it will mean module writers can create NPCs using this guidance too, like a kindly dwarf/gnome couple an or something.
And sure you can say that tables could always do this, but the fact is that most of them weren't despite clearly wondering about the possibility, so I'd say the permission slip being written down is welcome.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-05-17, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2018
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Gasp! What? No Warforged?? I'm out!
(Sarcasm)
So far I'm pretty underwhelmed.
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2024-05-17, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species.
It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.
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2024-05-17, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?
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2024-05-17, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Last edited by Zevox; 2024-05-17 at 01:38 PM.
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2024-05-17, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
I don't think not having it would be better, so if I have to choose between them making me happy and making you happy I'm gonna have to choose me.
Orcs should have been a core race long ago. Gygax's milquetoast "you can be kind of an orc but not really" was never a good idea, outside of maybe a setting like Middle-Earth, which he doesn't even own.
I wasn't aware we had Tiefling and Dragonborn stats for Oerth (link?) but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)Last edited by Psyren; 2024-05-17 at 02:22 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-05-17, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2005
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- Albuquerque, NM
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Pretty sure that's the point. The idea being that the races in the PHB are generally universal. So, Tiefling and Dragonborn (and the various human ethnicities straight out of FR) "should" be found in every core setting. Yes, DMs are always within their rights to decide that something doesn't exist, but there's not even a sidebar in the 2014 rules regarding races in disparate settings (or lack thereof). At least in the 2014 PHB, they were considered 'exotic' and listed outside the other alphabetical races, so there was some semblance of 'gee, maybe I should ask if this is kosher in my DMs world' - but I'd be shocked if that was a regular occurrence at most session zeros if the DM wasn't already restricting races outright.
And maybe the 2024 book will also list Aasimar, Tieflings, and Dragonborn as exotic again. But it's kinda sounding like they're just gonna be listed in alphabetical order from Aasimar to Tiefling and all the elves, dwarves, and humans in between.
...but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)Trollbait extraordinaire
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2024-05-17, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.
...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2024-05-17, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Last edited by Zevox; 2024-05-17 at 03:47 PM.
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2024-05-17, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
They're not "thrown out," they still exist. They just don't have a discrete mechanical entry. That's fine. Things like the lifespan difference are still there even.
Exactly.
Indeed, that's the point, and I approve. Folks who want to play a historic version of Toril/Oerth/etc that was more Tolkien-focused (i.e. boring) are free to do so.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-05-17, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2024-05-17, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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