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2023-11-27, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Section 4a: Thread Rules
This is a curated thread, and as such obeys the following rules:
CuratorSpoilerI, Grey Wolf, am the curator of the thread.
Responsibilities:
- Maintain the thread
- Remember arguments and canon
- Answer polite questions about MitD and the thread
What I can't do
- I have no official authority
- I am not a moderator
- I cannot ban discussion of issues I consider settled
- I cannot prevent certain topics from being discussed (but I can publicly withdraw from them); however, see also section on Inappropriate Topics below
- I cannot prevent any given poster from participating (but can Ignore them)
- I cannot make executive decisions on what is or is not included in the first post outside the guidelines stated in this post.
Adding information to the first post
SpoilerTo add something to the first post needs two positive votes to do so. "Positive votes" means two more people in favour of the idea than against it.
In normal operation, that essentially means convincing me to add it. The original proponent and me make the 2 votes, assuming no-one objects. If I disagree, the proponent will then need two other posters to agree with him/her (assuming no-one else but me disagrees). And so on: if 3 people are opposed, five need to be in favour, etc.
Why not simple majority? Because that is perilously close to a draw. With only one vote up or down, someone might come in a day later and vote against the idea would mean that we open the door to having to continually add and remove things from the first post - I want to prevent that as much as possible. This way, a vote against the change coming after the change still leaves a simple majority in favour of it (if would take two votes against the change after the fact for it to be reverted).
The only exception to the rule is the refreshes. When I do a refresh of the first post, I will not require to get anyone to agree with me; instead, I will publish a list of all changes as I make them, and when it is over, two objections will be enough to remove a change. For those doing the math at home, that is only one positive vote to remove it (I'd naturally be opposed, since I just added it), but since it got added only with one vote (mine), it's fair to remove it also with only one vote.
For major reworking of the first post, such as the issue with the definition of FBS, removing or adding whole sections, etc, it will need to be put to general vote. To request a vote to make a change to the OP, a proponent must obtain the backing of two other participants. The vote will then be held when the curator can set it up, or at refresh, whichever comes soonest.Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-27 at 11:57 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2023-11-27, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
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2023-11-27, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Not a lawyer, especially not an IP lawyer (which is its own specialty), but Snorlax is a trademark, and parody does not help at all on those. On the other hand, OotS doesn't fit any of the listed uses, and the link indicates that the trademark is abandoned, and I don't actually know what that means in the case of a trademark. [Edited to add: you can lose a trademark, in whole or in part, if you fail to defend it, but does abandoned mean that they've failed to defend it, that they've failed to refile it, or something else?]
So, I have no idea, but I wouldn't do it without consulting an IP attorney, and I have no idea if Rich has done so or not.
I think IP law is a strike against Snorlax, but I'll note that it's still on my full list of guesses which has been unfairly truncated in the list by Crusher's descriminatory little rules.Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2023-11-27 at 12:53 PM.
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2023-11-27, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
This is a great example of mystery and ambiguity that is wiped clean after a reveal.
Now we wonder if this strip is intended to be a clue for the Slaad.
After a Slaad reveal, it's a self-evident assertion of Rich's opinion about Slaad parents.
After a reveal of anything else, it's just a joke.TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2023-11-27, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-11-27, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Expounding further upon the bull rush idea, Turaglas would receive an additional +8 due to size category difference.
That means it would roll 1d20+21 for the STR check.
That is the equivalent to a medium creature with STR 52-53 (and no other modifiers)... does that sound correct?
Edit: Regardless, this is all kinda moot now anyhow. I found something which I don't think can be explained away. Sure, someone may accept bull rush to explain Miko being pushed away. However, Turaglas has one flaw related to this that it cannot explain.
In my own little game, try to see if you can reason it out before viewing the spoiler.
SpoilerIt cannot explain the stomp scene. It has no earthquake spell or ability and it lacks the raw strength without special conditions as seen with bull rush to cause the effect viewed.Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2023-11-27 at 02:58 PM.
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2023-11-27, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Lee, Nero and Cedrik have described themselves as archfiends, meaning they are at least minor demon lords/dukes of hell/whatever the proper title is for daemons. That means that instead of inventing your own, you could just take ones from the lists in appendixes and so on. No major princes, sure, but I never claimed they were like those.
Take Vekin for a example: a minor demon lord subordinate to Graz'zt that we don't know a lot about besides that he's for a demon impossibly loyal. So he has a relatively Lawful trait, and he serves a more powerful demon who a)is often called out as the most lawful of demons, and b) has enough power to make an inter-fiend alliance actually possible. Vekin is practically perfect for the role of Cedrik. Yet, The Giant chose to make his own demon and ignore the canonical demonic society. Why, if he didn't take this opportunity to make Vekin or Gresil or, yes, Turaglas the director of the IFCC, would he chose one of them as the MitD? Or, to reverse the question, why, if he already chose a canonical demon lord as the MitD, would he make the face of demons in the story a generic, self-invented, demon instead of another canonical demon lord? That could've been a great story about how even demon lords can be redeemed, which would only win from having a canonical enemy of Turaglas as a mirror in the IFCC, one who represents where Turaglas came from and where rejecting that path leads to.
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2023-11-27, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I can't find anything on Vekin. All searches return Vecna for me... so I cannot comment on that subject.
Gresil doesn't seem like a good fit for what we have viewed with the IFCC. Gresil from a very basic glance looks like a record keeper. The IFCC come off more as planners with minor field work.
Turaglas would be far to high up to be part of the IFCC as it would answer to nobody else directly.
I was kinda hoping that the IFCC were somehow aware of MitD being Turaglas and for whatever purpose trying to reawaken it. This would be going back to MitD vs Snarl fight being the backdrop I mentioned earlier that I want to see.
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2023-11-27, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2023-11-27, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Sorry, I misremembered him. He's called Verin.
Gresil doesn't seem like a good fit for what we have viewed with the IFCC. Gresil from a very basic glance looks like a record keeper. The IFCC come off more as planners with minor field work.
Turaglas would be far to high up to be part of the IFCC as it would answer to nobody else directly.
I was kinda hoping that the IFCC were somehow aware of MitD being Turaglas and for whatever purpose trying to reawaken it. This would be going back to MitD vs Snarl fight being the backdrop I mentioned earlier that I want to see.
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2023-11-27, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
If it is a minor one-note demon, it is a very strong one. According to the lore Turaglas stood a chance of defeating either Orcus or Demogorgon if they had worked alone. Turaglas was so powerful that those two set aside their disagreements to team up against Turaglas.
That and the fact the Turaglas endlessly hungers so much that it often devours its own followers as often as its enemies were big contributing factors to its defeat. It does not really seem to have the awareness to even answer to anything except its own hunger.
Edit: The clerics of Turaglas are granted spells for their worship. No other demon lord can claim that to the best of my knowledge. The lore is intentinally vague as to how Turaglas achieves this though. Turaglas would also probably not know anything about its worshipers.Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2023-11-27 at 04:17 PM.
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2023-11-27, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Thinking about this some more, and I think the reason this bothers me (not that I think you're not accurate) is that i makes the criticisms feel like people are lobbying for or against a particular candidate to change the voting.
But the voting ultimately doesn't matter, because the MitD's species is not going to be decided by the vote. It's already been decided by Rich and we're trying to figure out what it is.
(i.e. what Peelee said here.)
And I'm at the point where I think there are numerous plausible explanations for why we haven't seen it, and if someone insists that we have to see it otherwise it can't be the Protean, then as I've said, A)Rich is not going to give us such a dead-obvious clue when he's trying to keep the species a mystery until he's ready to reveal it, and B)If you apply that standard to every creature proposed, then none of them can be the MitD, because the MitD has never exhibited a trait as dead-obvious as the Protean's shapeshifting for any species.
Neither do I. That's why I looked at the work other people have done and then put together what I thought from the clues and the story being told and came up with the answer I think is most likely, which I am satisfied with as an answer.
And ultimately, this comes down to "there has to be an answer." If there was a seemingly perfect fit, there probably wouldn't be any dissent in the voting. If every candidate that doesn't have an airtight explanation for everything or feels off is discarded, then we don't have any candidates.
Per my relative lack of D&D knowledge, I don't remember where I read this or who found it, but I seem to recall something about the Protean's lore in that they tend to regard other species with disdain and beneath them. So in that sense it is surprising to the Stereotypical Big Game Hunters that the Protean is talking, because ordinarily it wouldn't deign to talk to mere humans. And given the description that Proteans "normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand," it's obviously surprising to them that one would be speaking "in Common, no less!"
This has in fact been suggested before, and given Rich's actual artistic needs in portraying a creature kept in darkness and still being able to portray his expressions well and consistently, I'm fine with it.
Or with any of the other explanations.
(Here's another proposal: Maybe the magical darkness MitD is in affects him such that he only appears as two eyes in the dark no matter how many eyes he has, because Redcloak and Xykon don't want to be constantly reminded of how weird and ugly he is.)
As I suggested in my last post, I'd like to see you apply this "one defining quality of the creature" test to every creature in the FBS and tell me which ones pass from what we've seen in the comic. Because I'm pretty sure the answer is "zero," which I think means your expectations here are miscalibrated.
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2023-11-27, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
"Tainted with chaos at the time of their race’s creation, proteans are denied the stability that most races enjoy. This has imbued them with undying hatred of all non-shapechanging beings (they tolerate other shapechangers but look down upon them for remaining in the same shape for hours or even days at a time). Hagunemnons travel endlessly, seeking new creatures to duplicate and new extraordinary abilities to assume. Their xenophobia generally results in their attempting to slay other beings after copying them."
(ELH pg 196)
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-27 at 04:24 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2023-11-27, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Contradicts the lore that no demon can be more powerful than the reigning Prince of Demons (without also being a god; then all bets are off). That's Demogorgon. Turaglas may have a small chance under some circumstances, but other minor demon lords also had a small chance under some circumstances. Anyway, forgive for not giving much heed to some first-time magazine writer hyping the subject of their article when this hype contradicts the greater lore.
Edit: The clerics of Turaglas are granted spells for their worship. No other demon lord can claim that to the best of my knowledge. The lore is intentinally vague as to how Turaglas achieves this though. Turaglas would also probably not know anything about its worshipers.
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2023-11-27, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I was looking at BoVD where it stated none of the demon lords presented could grant spells to worshippers. Not surprised that WotC contradicted themselves or back peddled on the lore.
Edit: Sorry but I am being a stickler for accuracy. Can it be updated on the proposed list that one of the reasons Turaglas doesn't qualify is because it has no answer for the stomp scene? I feel this is different enough from the tower scene because I could see DM fiat allowing bull rush and all the bonuses Turaglas would receive to account for what happened to Miko. These bonuses would not apply to the stomp scene and Turaglas does not have earthquake or anything similar.Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2023-11-27 at 04:53 PM.
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2023-11-27, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I'm perhaps reading too much into this.. but would this imply a need to witness said abilities before it could replicate them? Therefore, making the spontaneous generation of an ability (such as the teleportation of V and o'chul) a unique and difficult to repeat event?
This to me makes it even more believable that it could.be a protein in the darkness.
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2023-11-27, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2023-11-27, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
That's what the fluff would imply, yes (to be clear, the actual power doesn't have any such limitation; presumably it's up the DM to decide which powers a given protean can and cannot copy). I read it as "either he has seen a creature before use such powers, or he has not". As to how that affects MitD, given MitD's rather spotty memory, that could mean, as you point out, that it makes sense that in extremis he remembers the black-hole thing he once saw in the silvery place teleport away an attacker, and is able to duplicate it to save O-Chul, but when later he tries to do a repeat performance he just can't really recall it.
See also
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-27 at 07:08 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2023-11-27, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
In my opinion:
When the reveal comes, there will not be things which require explaining away. The creature will be able to do all the things we saw in comic without having any other explanation. For example, "It is this creature with that magical effect," will not be required. Just knowing what it is will make everything fit logically.
To do otherwise is a cheat. "It's really a goblin with a super template," becomes possible at that point, and any attempt to guess would be futile. I have to believe that The Giant is playing it straight when he posts that we should be able to guess the creature type just by what we see in comic.
For the record: two yellow eyes in the darkness pre-dated the magical Hello Kitty umbrella.
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2023-11-27, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Yes, but Redcloak and Xykon keeping the MitD surrounded by magical darkness predates the umbrella, as well.
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2023-11-28, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2023-11-28, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2023-11-28, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
For the record, I couldn't care less about the vote. I merely think that you (where you means 'ardent proponents of the Protean' rather than 'this guy called Ruck who's probably a mighty fine fellow for someone looking like a psycho redneck (I blame your avatar)') are wrong.
The thing about the Glabrezu wasn't about that either. It wasn't even very popular to begin with. That one simply insulted my common sense through being very obviously not a strong candidate.
B)If you apply that standard to every creature proposed, then none of them can be the MitD, because the MitD has never exhibited a trait as dead-obvious as the Protean's shapeshifting for any species.This has in fact been suggested before, and given Rich's actual artistic needs in portraying a creature kept in darkness and still being able to portray his expressions well and consistently, I'm fine with it.
(Here's another proposal: Maybe the magical darkness MitD is in affects him such that he only appears as two eyes in the dark no matter how many eyes he has, because Redcloak and Xykon don't want to be constantly reminded of how weird and ugly he is.)
Meaning no offense, I feel like when you're saying "he has to be something" it means something more like "he has to be a Protean (no matter how many weird hoops we have to jump through for that)".
As I suggested in my last post, I'd like to see you apply this "one defining quality of the creature" test to every creature in the FBS and tell me which ones pass from what we've seen in the comic. Because I'm pretty sure the answer is "zero," which I think means your expectations here are miscalibrated.
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2023-11-28, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2023-11-28, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I never asked the Protean to do anything a Hunting Horror couldn’t, but what is happening here is wacky.
The Protean is clued against five times in one scene, but it’s not a flaw because there is no monster on deck for whataboutisms.
Protean fans reject perfectly good excuses for other monsters’ flaws as too unlikely to be true, but when certain flowers try to apply this standard to the Protean’s own flaws, Protean fans insist that arguments based on standards from 7-8 years ago should take precedence.
Protean fans demand access to whataboutisms, but refuse to take responsibility for the whataboutisms they create.
Spoiler: What about the Hunting Horror?Well… what do you do that really terrifies people?
Let’s see… I eat a lot?
(Fits a Hunting Horror -- “A great gaping maw filled with jagged, irregular teeth gapes open hungrily as it flies in search of prey.” Also, feeding it sentient creatures is the traditional way for sorcerers to bind one.)
And if Redcloak ever betrays me, you will devour him whole and spit out the gold amulet he wears.
(Fits a Hunting Horror: It has Swallow Whole.)
(Fits a Hunting Horror again: It has a printed Vomit attack to spit things out with)
---
My gods, is it talking?
(Fits a Hunting Horror: It “rarely speaks”)
In Common, no less!
(Fits a Hunting Horror: “They understand instructions given them in any language”, but there’s nothing to indicate what languages it can speak.)
I tell you, Jenkins, I never expected to see one of these in this part of the world.
(Fits a Hunting Horror: Climate/Terrain: any nighttime or sunless place, so a sunny jungle is at the bottom of the list.)
Wait, I know! Could you let me out of the box, please? I always get told that I forget to say, “please,” and, “thank you.” And “Sorry about the smell.”
(Fits a Hunting Horror: It has an Aura of Nausea and always smells.)
Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2023-11-28 at 12:52 PM.
TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2023-11-28, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
No, what is happening here is that you and Meta refuse to accept that this is a curated thread. That rules have been established via consensus on what does and does not make it to the FBS. And that there is a mechanism to change those rules that you either are not willing to employ or, in the case of Meta, openly admits does not care to engage with. There is no current rules in the FBS for excluding creatures because in your opinion the author must give a clue to the protean's changing flesh via modifying the depiction or height of the eyes between panels. And there isn't such a rule because it is exclusively based on your opinion of what the author should do, not what the RAW of the creature can do. Can the Protean keep eyes steady for long periods of time? Yes, yes it can. Does it have to change the height of those eyes? No, it does not. Is the author required to blatantly give away the guessing game? No, he doesn't.
So what is next, if you can't or won't attempt to change the FBS rules in a way everyone can agree to do? Well, you can lobby to convince sufficient people to move the creature to a different category. You are failing to do so, but it's your right to attempt it. I'd recommend, and indeed have recommended that that would start by bringing to the table an argument this thread has not been hearing repeatedly over the last decade, but that bit is where we are stuck now. Filling the thread with "Rich must show MitD changing constantly or I won't accept it could be the protean" like it's some major revelation you just came up with instead of a tired old argument we have heard a bazillion times is just not going to be effective. Either you buy it or you don't. And pretty much everyone here has already made that decision, and did so months or even years ago, and brigning it up again and again is just not going to change anything, unless you bring something new to the table.
And as for your "5 checks per scene", we are back to: this is a curated thread. Even if I agreed with your approach, it would first need consensual acceptance before it was used. And to be clear, I don't agree with your approach. First, it is blatantly obvious it's designed to fail the Protean because you dislike it. But more damningly, it sounds like a horrendous amount of work, and if put to the general vote it'll get starred* for certain, so good luck figuring out 5 tests per scene that everyone can agree to for whoever many scenes you are proposing and them applying it to 180 different proposals.
Grey Wolf
*Starred means I'd be invoking the voting-is-binding clause: if you vote for extra work, be prepared to do the extra work. If extra work is voted for, but no-one does it, the option will be discarded and runner-up will be done instead. Generally, though, I will clearly articulate which options I will expect voters to do if they win, usually on the basis of the effort involved. If I do not say anything, you can assume that I'm happy to implement every option myself.Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-28 at 01:03 PM.
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2023-11-28, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Huh?
or, in the case of Meta, openly admits does not care to engage with.
There is no current rules in the FBS for excluding creatures because in your opinion the author must give a clue to the protean's changing flesh via modifying the depiction or height of the eyes between panels. And there isn't such a rule because it is exclusively based on your opinion of what the author should do, not what the RAW of the creature can do. Can the Protean keep eyes steady for long periods of time? Yes, yes it can. Does it have to change the height of those eyes? No, it does not. Is the author required to blatantly give away the guessing game? No, he doesn't.
So what is next, if you can't or won't attempt to change the FBS rules in a way everyone can agree to do?
And pretty much everyone here has already made that decision, and did so months or even years ago, and brigning it up again and again is just not going to change anything, unless you bring something new to the table.
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2023-11-28, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Well, since it seems you are sure it cannot be any of the 180+ suggestions so far, I'd imagine you'd be here to propose a better fit. Or provide new insights into MitD, which, to be clear "I think it can't be the protean because the eyes are steady" is not.
Or alternatively, you really think it is a black/white slaad, in which case, what do you care if Ruck thinks it's a protean instead? Wait until the reveal, and then lord it over that you figured it out. But you can neither prove you are right before then, nor "win" whatever it is that you think you are doing with the protean. Certainly not with an argument we have heard before.
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-28 at 03:37 PM.
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2023-11-28, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
I'm Slaadsiding, and quite explicitly.
Or provide new insights into MitD,
which, to be clear "I think it can't be the protean because the eyes are steady" is not.
As for my comment on the voting, what I meant was I'm not just trying to push my preferences through other peoiple's preferences in a popular vote, so I couldn't care less how many people vote for Protean as their first option, case in point being my assault on the Glabrezu which wasn't popular, just kind of stupid and a poor fit according to the criteria in place.
I'm sorry to hear you don't find me to be a helpful presence in this thread. And, at any rate, thank you for removing the latter half of your post that I quoted, because frankly, it was kinda mean.
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2023-11-28, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable
Because I disagree with you in what constitutes both "simpler" and "contrived". I find the slaad evolution/reproduction cycle too contrived for MitD. I accept this is my personal opinion. But it is also a con, and as such is listed. I do not find the protean steady eye issue as contrived for MitD, but I accept this is not a universal fact, and that it is a valid con, and as such is listed. You are reversed in both of those opinions. Everyone else in this thread will have their own ranking for those two things, as well as for a bunch of others.
Just as, yes, I stand by the fact that I divide demons/devils/whatever the neutral ones are called into two groups, "those that look like traditional demons" and "those that don't", and you do not. And once that has been established, it is clearly an impasse and I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you, because I gave it my best shot and it clearly didn't work, so I moved on.
So, in short, I look at the Slaad and I, personally, not as the curator but in my personal capacity, do not see MitD as a thousand-year old creature that has gone through at least three separate colour evolutions, has any reason to remember his parent if he did, and cannot in any way be considered "not fully grown", what with white slaads being bigger than blacksand with white being Large, it's honestly hard to imagine one fitting under the umbrella (and there are no "child-sized white slaad"). None of that is simple, much of it I think would need to be very contrived to make it work with MitD; I still think it might be done for the joke, but I still think it ridiculously contrived if it is. But I do see it plausible that MitD is a very lonely protean, lost his dad at one point*, and in an effort to fit in has been trying to have a face for some 30 years now. I find that extremely plausible, story wise. And given it is within the capabilities of a protean, passes muster RAW-wise.
And you think the plausibility of those is reversed. Which is fine, but the part where you think your judgement of plausibility vs simplicity is somehow a universal yardstick is not.
And putting back my curator hat, the FBS does not exist to house creatures you personally think are not "stupid". It exists to showcase a range of options of what we have found so far. The way to curate it should be by bringing in even more candidates that fit even better, which would cause me to want to raise the bar to keep the numbers in the 6-12 range. Which is why I do now regret opening the door to just voting the ones we have out, but what's done is done.
Grey Wolf
* Heck, to tie it all together, and against my usual practice: I'll stake my claim that he lost his dad when, out in a jaunt through the astral plane, they encountered an umbral blot, and MitD was Planar Travel'ed to the jungle in the subsequent scuffleLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2023-11-28 at 09:33 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est