Baldur's Gate 3- What does fried Nautiloid taste like?

[Anonymouswizard]

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Withers being connected to Jergal is pretty clear from his introduction, especially if somebody passss the religion check nearby. The obvious implication is that he's either a cleric or chosen of the scribe of the dead, but I've heard beating the game reveals him to be the god himself.

As a side note I'm a bit surprised you don't lose your Oath for

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playing the stabby stabby with Alfira. I'm supposing being Vengeance rather than Devotion* has something to do with it, but it still seems bizarre when I just killed a defenceless innocent.

So now I'm going to see if I can keep my Oath for the entire game, and hopefully get an option to throw that in daddy's face by the ending. You're going to force me to kill people, then I'm going to save ten times as many.

* It made more sense to me that the pre-amesia Durge would have been able to kind of keep.

As a side note, I kind of get the feeling Wyll's a warlock because his dad's view on how you become a hero discouraged him from pursuing paladinhood. Because despite his glory seeking he'd have made a pretty damn good paladin, but instead ended up taking a shortcut he stumbled across

[Jophiel]

Where do you get that last from?

She probably should have pulled that trick before getting converted into a fine red smear in my last game

[Anonymouswizard]

Might reload and change to Oath of Devotion before

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killing Alfira

for story reasons.

[Cikomyr2]

Whatever she began as, she's not "just a cleric" anymore; she has power over the House and can outright banish devils from it.

Where do you get that last from?

I think she did turn into some sort of genius loci of Hell.

Hope is probably one of the few good things with genuine power in Hell. She seem to have an established and entrenched presence in Hell.

I can totally see it becoming, if not a new siege or battle, at least a place of devilish intrigue where Hope still has to take in supplicants, devils trying to catch her in failing her obligations where they could justify swooping in, and some.. special souls (the Blade of Avernus? Karlach?) Help stand watch.

Avernus as a setting for some NPC-focused dlc/expansion, wrapping up the fight against Zariel and her proxy Mizora.

Hell, Mizora could be the one tasked with reclaiming Hope for the Archduke. Theres a lot of good story there to be had.

[Psyren]

As a side note I'm a bit surprised you don't lose your Oath for

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playing the stabby stabby with Alfira. I'm supposing being Vengeance rather than Devotion* has something to do with it, but it still seems bizarre when I just killed a defenceless innocent.

So now I'm going to see if I can keep my Oath for the entire game, and hopefully get an option to throw that in daddy's face by the ending. You're going to force me to kill people, then I'm going to save ten times as many.

* It made more sense to me that the pre-amesia Durge would have been able to kind of keep.

I imagine a bunch of Durge Paladin players on their first playthrough who just woke up Oathbreakers one day would have complained about that

As a side note, I kind of get the feeling Wyll's a warlock because his dad's view on how you become a hero discouraged him from pursuing paladinhood. Because despite his glory seeking he'd have made a pretty damn good paladin, but instead ended up taking a shortcut he stumbled across

He was also pretty young - he was a teenager (17 I believe?) when he contracted with Mizora. Becoming a Paladin might simply take longer - time that he felt he didn't have - and thus the Warlock's shortcut appealed to him.

[Cikomyr2]

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Withers being connected to Jergal is pretty clear from his introduction, especially if somebody passss the religion check nearby. The obvious implication is that he's either a cleric or chosen of the scribe of the dead, but I've heard beating the game reveals him to be the god himself.

As a side note I'm a bit surprised you don't lose your Oath for

Spoiler

Show

playing the stabby stabby with Alfira. I'm supposing being Vengeance rather than Devotion* has something to do with it, but it still seems bizarre when I just killed a defenceless innocent.

So now I'm going to see if I can keep my Oath for the entire game, and hopefully get an option to throw that in daddy's face by the ending. You're going to force me to kill people, then I'm going to save ten times as many.

* It made more sense to me that the pre-amesia Durge would have been able to kind of keep.

As a side note, I kind of get the feeling Wyll's a warlock because his dad's view on how you become a hero discouraged him from pursuing paladinhood. Because despite his glory seeking he'd have made a pretty damn good paladin, but instead ended up taking a shortcut he stumbled across

Oath of vengeance is the hardest to break, because AFAIK theres a single place in the entire game you can break it.

To be honest, i find it incredibly hard to break your oath of paladin. You have to go above and beyond, i only fallen my Oath of Ancient when

Spoiler: act 2

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i summoned the soul of the innkeeper and tormented her soul in accepting her guilt so she is constantly tormented in the afterlife

Like, i get it but I'd thought snuffing out the Last Light by killing Izzy should have qualified

[Anonymouswizard]

I imagine a bunch of Durge Paladin players on their first playthrough who just woke up Oathbreakers one day would have complained about that

The thing is that still apparently happens, it's just Oath dependent (I think both Devotion and Ancients do fall for it). While I wanted some peniancy by going Vengeance I still expected to see the special DU paladin content starting pretty early.

He was also pretty young - he was a teenager (17 I believe?) when he contracted with Mizora. Becoming a Paladin might simply take longer - time that he felt he didn't have - and thus the Warlock's shortcut appealed to him.

IIRC the 3.5 random ages suggested you could be most classes by 17, so it's possible. But he'd likely have had to start training to specifically become a paladin years earlier, and 'you don't choose a hero's life, it finds you' and all that.

[Keltest]

In the Realms, paladins, like all divine casters, need a specific deific patron. Its entirely possible that Wyll simply wasn't religious enough to become a Paladin. I would say likely even, given that he made a deal with a devil for power.

ETA: Actually, upon consideration, Wyll even goes so far as to explicitly say that he can't imagine that level of devotion to a deity.

[Psyren]

Where do you get that last from?

From the descriptive text of her unique Banish ability. It's explicitly tied to her authority over the House, and that's before

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we (permanently) revoke Raphael's.

I think she did turn into some sort of genius loci of Hell. **snip**

There's some endgame spoilers in the rest of this so I'd recommend editing in a tag.

In the Realms, paladins, like all divine casters, need a specific deific patron. Its entirely possible that Wyll simply wasn't religious enough to become a Paladin. I would say likely even, given that he made a deal with a devil for power.

While this is true,

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given how easily Ketheric hopped patrons as well as the various examples in the game of deities seeking out their own Chosen, I don't think getting a patron is really all that hard.

How much Wyll considered or tried the Paladin route before going Warlock is anyone's guess really, but if we do see him again I expect he'll have gone down that route at least to an extent.

[Anonymouswizard]

In the Realms, paladins, like all divine casters, need a specific deific patron. Its entirely possible that Wyll simply wasn't religious enough to become a Paladin. I would say likely even, given that he made a deal with a devil for power.

ETA: Actually, upon consideration, Wyll even goes so far as to explicitly say that he can't imagine that level of devotion to a deity.

I'd honestly forgotten that Realms paladins swear to a god rather than the universe, partially because they don't get to choose one at character creation. It's probably why the Grove worshipping Silvanus strikes me as odd, in other settings the druidic faith generally doesn't intersect with the gods.

And yeah, I do wish more of the party was openly religious, because it really should be pretty dang common in the setting. Lae'zel makes sense, her culture fully explains it, but I'd like to know which god(s) Wyll, Astarion, and Karlach worship even if they're not as devoted as Shadowheart, Halsin, and Gale.

But that's an issue I have with D&D as a whole anyway.


Downloaded the respec spell mod, because I'm not paying 100gp to Withers whenever I want to make a minor change. It's pocket change by act 2, but in act 1 it can really hurt.

[BRC]

I'd honestly forgotten that Realms paladins swear to a god rather than the universe, partially because they don't get to choose one at character creation. It's probably why the Grove worshipping Silvanus strikes me as odd, in other settings the druidic faith generally doesn't intersect with the gods.

And yeah, I do wish more of the party was openly religious, because it really should be pretty dang common in the setting. Lae'zel makes sense, her culture fully explains it, but I'd like to know which god(s) Wyll, Astarion, and Karlach worship even if they're not as devoted as Shadowheart, Halsin, and Gale.

But that's an issue I have with D&D as a whole anyway.


Downloaded the respec spell mod, because I'm not paying 100gp to Withers whenever I want to make a minor change. It's pocket change by act 2, but in act 1 it can really hurt.

Considering their backgrounds, I could see Karlach and Astarion not worshiping any gods. Both were, effectively, kidnapped into slavery for most of their lives. I can see them not really thinking about the gods much, certainly not in devotional terms.

Wyll should PROBABLY worship somebody. He's not so devout as to not, you know, sign a pact with a devil, but he should at least have a favorite.

[Keltest]

I'd honestly forgotten that Realms paladins swear to a god rather than the universe, partially because they don't get to choose one at character creation. It's probably why the Grove worshipping Silvanus strikes me as odd, in other settings the druidic faith generally doesn't intersect with the gods.

And yeah, I do wish more of the party was openly religious, because it really should be pretty dang common in the setting. Lae'zel makes sense, her culture fully explains it, but I'd like to know which god(s) Wyll, Astarion, and Karlach worship even if they're not as devoted as Shadowheart, Halsin, and Gale.

But that's an issue I have with D&D as a whole anyway.


Downloaded the respec spell mod, because I'm not paying 100gp to Withers whenever I want to make a minor change. It's pocket change by act 2, but in act 1 it can really hurt.

Wyll says he worships the Triad (Tyr, Ilmater and Torm), Astarion and Karlach might well be Faithless due to their own personal experiences. Astarion in particular has not had the free will to really genuinely worship anyone in a long time.

[Psyren]

Torm and/or Tyr would definitely fit well with Wyll's outlook. Probably Torm moreso than Tyr since the former is more concerned with duty and actively seeking out evil, and also shares Wyll's affinity for blades.

Karlach is much harder to place. I'd put her much closer to CG or NG than LG; the best fit is probably Lliira (revelry, community, joy) but I could see Sune taking an interest also given her love for the world and for companionship.

Astarion at the start of the game would be a shoe-in for Cyric. Assuming he turns good though, I would probably slide him a bit closer to Sharess - assuming she'd take in a vampire, even a reformed one.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yes game, I definitely wanted one of my main damage dealers to lose their action for the ENTIRE COMBAT. I'm certainly not salty that it means you killed the character who'd continue the quest.

[Zevox]

First off: page 50, we need a new title for next thread.
Suggestion: Baldur's Gate 3 II: Githyanki Boogaloo

So, disturbing thing from my current, Dark Urge run.

Spoiler: Act 1, Druid Grove

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I found an injured Tiefling woman in a closed-off room, whom I actually hadn't met in my first run because, well, the room was locked and I was playing the sort of goody-two-shoes who didn't go around picking locks where it wasn't okay, and didn't find the route that leads to a hole in the back wall. As a Dark Urge character, you get an option to feel the urge to take advantage of the woman's helplessness, and the prompt makes it sound like you'll permanently cripple her. Instead, you apparently kill her.

That's not the disturbing part though, it's kind of what I expect from the dark urge stuff, just not quite what I expected in this situation because of how the prompt was worded. The disturbing part is: "Astarion Approves." What the hell, dude?

(Also, no approval change from Gale, which is weird considering he seems to be a decent person, even if not as clearly good-aligned as Wyll and Karlach. No approval change from Lae'zel is much more expected, the amount she cares about non-Gith in Act 1 is nearly zero.)

Regarding partron deities: Wyll does invoke the Triad at times, but explicitly says he's never been as religious as the likes of Shadowheart or Gale. Which is probably why he didn't wind up as a Paladin, even though he could pull that off otherwise. (Also, the Warlock thing did kind of get thrown at him in a high-pressure situation when he was relatively young, so he may not have had much chance to consider it anyway.) Still, those three are clearly who he would worship as his patron, likely Torm if he has just one as a specific patron.

Karlach may well have a patron deity that just never gets brought up - she did have a life in Baldur's Gate before being sold to Zariel, after all. She was a bodyguard for a while, so Helm is actually a reasonable possibility, despite her personality being pretty Chaotic Good; though whether she'd still follow him after what happened is another matter. If we're otherwise looking for best fits, Tymora feels good to me - a patron who encourages bold action over planning, and chasing your own unique, personal goals feels in line with Karlach's mentality. Lliira is also reasonable. I can't see Sune personally, Sunites tend to care a lot more about appearances and romance than I feel Karlach does (though to be fair, I didn't attempt to romance her in my first run, so maybe she is a romantic at heart and I just don't know yet).

For Astarion a thing to keep in mind is that he is a High Elf, not just a Vampire, and he did have a life before becoming a Vampire. I don't think we learned many details of that life - though perhaps I just didn't get them due to not getting his approval up particularly high the first time around - but it seems to me like it's on the table that he would've worshiped the Seldarine as a whole, or one of the Elven gods specifically, before then. If his personality was similar before he got vamped, I'd say Erevan Ilesere, the Elf trickster god, feels like the best individual fit by a long shot - hell, enough so that I could easily see him still worshiping him after getting vamped. If he was raised among human society and had a patron from the Faerûnian pantheon, Sharess or Lliira wouldn't be surprising, but nor would a darker god like Mask. Or even Cyric as Psyren suggested, frankly, given what I brought up in the spoiler. All depends on what he was actually like back then though. It is possible that his experiences after that have left him functionally faithless regardless of who he may have followed before that, though. It just doesn't come up with him, and it does feel like he's the companion who is least likely to care about the gods as he is now (outside of Lae'zel because Githyanki).

Spoiler: Other companions

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I don't know if Jaheira has a canon patron, but obviously being a Druid it would be one of the nature deities. I would probably guess Mielikki over Chauntea or Sylvanus; certainly over pacifistic Eldath. Obviously it wouldn't be Talos or his gaggle of associated evil nature deities. Probably not one of the more obscure ones either, I'd say - maybe Gwaeron Windstrom, but his faith is so closely linked with Mielikki's anyway that the distinction hardly matters.

Minsc would probably be Tymora or Torm. Act boldly and recklessly, kick evil's buttocks, etc etc. Though I suppose as a Ranger he should probably have a nature deity as a patron, shouldn't he? Guess the best fit there is Mielikki or Gwaeron as well?

[Anonymouswizard]

I recommend Baldur's Gate 3 II: Mindflaying for Goodness

Alternatively Baldur's Gate 3 II: Just One More Murder And I'll Stop... (my views might be coloured by really disliking the Tav playthrough.)

[BRC]

Baldurs Gate 3: Thread II: Natural 1

Baldurs Gate 3 II: A Tale of Tavs and Tadpoles

Baldurs Gate 3 II: Featuring surprisingly little Baludrs Gate!

[warty goblin]

Baldurs Gate 3 II: Featuring surprisingly little Baludrs Gate!

This one, but with the typo.

[Psyren]

BG3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
BG3 II: Minthara? I Barely Knew 'Er
BG3 II: Wither Thou Goest Alone

That's not the disturbing part though, it's kind of what I expect from the dark urge stuff, just not quite what I expected in this situation because of how the prompt was worded. The disturbing part is: "Astarion Approves." What the hell, dude?

Early Astarion likes knowing or at least feeling like he's not the only monster in the party IIRC; he actively encourages you to give in to your darker impulses.

Karlach may well have a patron deity that just never gets brought up - she did have a life in Baldur's Gate before being sold to Zariel, after all. She was a bodyguard for a while, so Helm is actually a reasonable possibility, despite her personality being pretty Chaotic Good; though whether she'd still follow him after what happened is another matter. If we're otherwise looking for best fits, Tymora feels good to me - a patron who encourages bold action over planning, and chasing your own unique, personal goals feels in line with Karlach's mentality. Lliira is also reasonable. I can't see Sune personally, Sunites tend to care a lot more about appearances and romance than I feel Karlach does (though to be fair, I didn't attempt to romance her in my first run, so maybe she is a romantic at heart and I just don't know yet).

Tymora works, although she doesn't seem the gambling/chancey type to me (coin obsession aside.)

For Sune I think it's because she wants so badly to be able to touch and be touched by those around her. But I would put Llira ahead of Sune for sure.

If his personality was similar before he got vamped, I'd say Erevan Ilesere, the Elf trickster god, feels like the best individual fit by a long shot - hell, enough so that I could easily see him still worshiping him after getting vamped. If he was raised among human society and had a patron from the Faerûnian pantheon, Sharess or Lliira wouldn't be surprising, but nor would a darker god like Mask. Or even Cyric as Psyren suggested, frankly, given what I brought up in the spoiler.

I had forgotten Erevan, that could work too! I think he's a bit too flamboyant for Mask but it's not totally impossible.

[spoiler=Other companions]I don't know if Jaheira has a canon patron, but obviously being a Druid it would be one of the nature deities. I would probably guess Mielikki over Chauntea or Sylvanus; certainly over pacifistic Eldath. Obviously it wouldn't be Talos or his gaggle of associated evil nature deities. Probably not one of the more obscure ones either, I'd say - maybe Gwaeron Windstrom, but his faith is so closely linked with Mielikki's anyway that the distinction hardly matters.

I'm definitely feeling Mielikki for Jaheira. In fact, I retrained her to Ranger towards the end to better fit with those dual scimitars she likes to run around with, as well as to distinguish her from Halsin.

Chauntea works too, and in fact that's a pretty common choice for Rashemi berserkers too, so I could see them both being Chaunteans.

[JadedDM]

I'm reasonably sure Jaheira follows Silvanus. I could swear I remember her invoking his name in one of the earlier games. I could be misremembering, though. It has been awhile.

[Zevox]

BG3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

I'm on board with that one.

Early Astarion likes knowing or at least feeling like he's not the only monster in the party IIRC; he actively encourages you to give in to your darker impulses.

Still ridiculously awful of him.

Tymora works, although she doesn't seem the gambling/chancey type to me (coin obsession aside.)

Not in the literal sense, perhaps, but she's very much the act first, worry about the consequences later type, which is exactly Tymora's thing (and why she's a popular patron of adventurers in particular).

[Jophiel]

I'd be willing to believe that Karlach spent a decent part of her life being closer to the Lawful side of the spectrum between her bodyguard/soldier service and willingness to take orders.

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And her mentor was Gortash and he seems like the sort of tyrant who keeps a tight Lawful ship.

But now that she's been betrayed, broken free of the yoke of Avernus, and has that whole ticking clock thing going, she swung more Chaotic in a desire to get her living in and revel in her freedom. So I could see her having one of the more lawful and militaristic deities as a legacy preferred choice but is, at best, whatever the Faerun version of a "Christmas & Easter parishioner" may be.

[NeoVid]

Baldur's Gate 3: Obey Your Thirst!

Baldurs Gate 3: Thread II: Natural 1

Baldurs Gate 3 II: Featuring surprisingly little Baldurs Gate!

OK, can't compete with that.

On the subject of patron deities in FR, my view was nailed down by an OOC discussion relating to the subject in an old campaign. A friend was running a Hexblade (original 3.5 test version of the concept) and realized he hadn't picked a god for the character. After some discussion where he went 'ehhhh...' about every god of magic or combat, we said, "Well, what about a god who'll just take any adventurer, like Tymora?" "Oh hey, Tymora! She's got the most fun afterlife!"

I'm certain that a lot of people in setting put just about the same reasoning into the decision.

[Errorname]

Put me down for Baldur's Gate 3: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[Psyren]

Tymora does fit as I stated

I'm on board with that one.
Still ridiculously awful of him

No argument here

[Eldan]

Nearing the end of act 1. Still super annoyed with the controls.

Is there a better way to navigate the party around hazards, other than going into turn-based mode and maneuvering every character through them by themselves? Because I'm in the Underdark, it's full of toxic and explosive things and it's super annoying to spend 3/4 of my playtime in TB mode trying not to step on super obvious traps that area already discovered.

[BRC]

Nearing the end of act 1. Still super annoyed with the controls.

Is there a better way to navigate the party around hazards, other than going into turn-based mode and maneuvering every character through them by themselves? Because I'm in the Underdark, it's full of toxic and explosive things and it's super annoying to spend 3/4 of my playtime in TB mode trying not to step on super obvious traps that area already discovered.

In my experience, Healing Potions :P

Mostly, I got into the habit of shooting the exploding mushrooms.

Spoiler: Very Start of Act 3

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So I'd already been mildly spoiled about Shadowheart's hair color change. I assumed it would be the result of a big magic cutscene where she rejected Shar or whatever.


So I was kind of surprised to wake up in Act 3 and, unless I accidentally skipped a cutscene, it seems like she just had an existential crises one night and had Withers whip up some Fantasy Bleach or what have you.


Not COMPLAINING, I was just like "Huh, I wonder when Shadowheart's hair is going to change", and then was surprised when she was just "Surprise! Hope you like it!"

[Keltest]

In my experience, Healing Potions :P

Mostly, I got into the habit of shooting the exploding mushrooms.

Spoiler: Very Start of Act 3

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So I'd already been mildly spoiled about Shadowheart's hair color change. I assumed it would be the result of a big magic cutscene where she rejected Shar or whatever.


So I was kind of surprised to wake up in Act 3 and, unless I accidentally skipped a cutscene, it seems like she just had an existential crises one night and had Withers whip up some Fantasy Bleach or what have you.


Not COMPLAINING, I was just like "Huh, I wonder when Shadowheart's hair is going to change", and then was surprised when she was just "Surprise! Hope you like it!"

Spoiler: Shadowheart

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If you actually play as Shadowheart, you have the choice whether to change it or not... and you actually basically nailed it. Its no mystical thing, its just a dye job, because she is still wearing her hair as a Sharran initiate.

[Jophiel]

Spoiler: Very Start of Act 3

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So I'd already been mildly spoiled about Shadowheart's hair color change. I assumed it would be the result of a big magic cutscene where she rejected Shar or whatever.


So I was kind of surprised to wake up in Act 3 and, unless I accidentally skipped a cutscene, it seems like she just had an existential crises one night and had Withers whip up some Fantasy Bleach or what have you.


Not COMPLAINING, I was just like "Huh, I wonder when Shadowheart's hair is going to change", and then was surprised when she was just "Surprise! Hope you like it!"

Spoiler

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It's even more amusing if she stays a Sharran and becomes a Dark Justiciar. She just celebrates by cutting her bangs.

[Anonymouswizard]

Nearing the end of act 1. Still super annoyed with the controls.

Is there a better way to navigate the party around hazards, other than going into turn-based mode and maneuvering every character through them by themselves? Because I'm in the Underdark, it's full of toxic and explosive things and it's super annoying to spend 3/4 of my playtime in TB mode trying not to step on super obvious traps that area already discovered.

In the Underdark IIRC most of the explosives can be blown up with Fire Bolt, and even cause a chain reaction.

What's annoying is finding something to put on top of gas vents. Most of the time I see if I can jump oast the gas vents instead. I really need to start picking up sone barrels before I go dungeon crawling.


As a side note, that reduced movement speed as a melee fighter is quite annoying, I'm starting to see why the party is so elf heavy. Unfortunately I don't have any space in my build for Mobile (PAM+GWM+an ASi consumes my feats, and even if I drop GWM it'll be for +2 Strength), so I guess I'll have to dehobbit myself and start looking for Boots of Speed.