OOTS #1005 - The Discussion Thread

[Kantaki]

What is the yellow force field? Hold portal?

I think that's the aura from the "summon proxy" spell.

It seems that eating the Stone-guys wasn't the best idea Durkon had. I think Hel won't be amused when her plan fails because he was hungry.

The High Priest of Balder doesn't leave the voting-chamber? Interesting.

And Roy raises a very good point there: It doesn't look like Durkon thinks for himself.

[chronoreverse]

Shoot, if Balder steps out, Hel is going to win isn't she?

Killing the stone-priests is to make Balder step out maybe?

[Snails]

How long can a vampire stay in mist form? I thought they only turned to that when "dead". Does Durkula have a coffin? Where?

They can do so voluntarily at any time. By the rules as written in 3.5, Roy would be able to pound that mist to oblivion with his magic sword -- that is not a criticism of what the Giant is doing here, BTW, just a clarification.

If down to 0 HP, vampires are forced into mist, and must retreat to their coffin or die.

In this case, the HPoH seems to be doing so voluntarily, and will use fast healing to recoup some HP.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I thought it was just residual aura from the summon proxy spell.

Anyone else really concerned about the high priest of Balder?

[hroþila]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

[Kaiser Omnik]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

Like, air elementals?

[Basement Cat]

And there it is with the gaseous form.

I like how predictions that Durkula would be more vulnerable in gaseous form seem in error: It really doesn't make sense that a vampire in gaseous form would be more vulnerable than in solid form--magic weapons or not.

Roy's looking frustrated. I'm not used to seeing him emote like this. Granted the fate of the world is literally at stake but with Durkon being a key player it could lead to Roy having a heroic breakdown.

I wonder if something bad has happened to the demigods' representatives. Belkar? Is that your influence?

Maybe we'll find out that Durkula did vampirize the two non-protected priests and they have something to do with the demigods' representatives not being immediately on call.

"Or maybe it's me!"

[Shining Wrath]

OK, so the Giant gives HPoH a better mist form than the SRD.

And Roy's making some good points debate-wise, not that I expect it to matter.

Could the yellow aura around Balder's HP be the other vampires in mist form? And "find an usher" - is it possible that the protective spells make it difficult to navigate the temple unless you have an usher? Belkar, admittedly not the sharpest knife in the drawer, got lost. If you can't find the foyer without an usher ... and there are no ushers ... uh-oh.

[The Giant]

The barrier is a normal part of the Godsmoot. It's the answer to the question that was voiced repeatedly around these parts, "Why doesn't one of the high priests just step out of the room and nullify the vote?" but I can't fit everything in every comic, so we haven't seen it until now.

I thought its origin would be somewhat self-evident given that I made it the same exact color as the Northern Gods' energy auras, but I guess not.

[Keltest]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

Hey now, dispersing a cloud of mist by swinging something through it is a fairly common thing. What would you expect dispersing a cloud of living mist to do but hurt it?

[Gwynfrid]

Ah, I get it. Makes sense. I did figure it was something from the gods, due to the golden color, but I thought it was one of the gods trying to stall for time while the fight plays out.

[Kantaki]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

With a mundane weapon I would agree, but isn't Roy's sword magical? The blade itself might have not much effect, but that might Change if the green flame-aura and it's anti-undead effect activates.

[pendell]

Thank you, Giant! Also thanks for the explanation of the barrier.

Quick art question: Roy has two black marks under his chin, on the left side of his face, in every panel. I haven't noticed them before. Are they damage marks? If so, why aren't they red like others? Or are those whiskers? Is Roy beginning to grow a beard?

Now that the art question's done, back to comic commentary:

So Durkula changed to mist. Why he didn't do so at the beginning of the fight, I don't understand, but there you have it. He evidently is far enough down on HP that he wants a few rounds of distance to fast heal.

Odd. A number of forum commentators noted that Durkula, as mist, would actually have a lower AC than if he was still solid, because no plate armor. He has DR/10 magic, easily overcome by Roy's sword, but Roy hasn't successfully landed a hit.

Is there a 50% miss chance that comes with trying to strike an incorporeal object or something?

Here's another strange thing: The reason the demigods aren't here yet is because the priest of Balder can't find an usher. Why can't he find an usher? Presumably because DURKULA ATE THEM.

But .. if Hel knows that the demigods would favor her, why did Durkula make it difficult for the priests to call those demigods, by killing the very people who knew their way around the temple?

I cannot believe that Durkula killed those specific priests on a whim; it is part of the larger plan.

Is winning this vote not Hel's actual plan here? Is there a plan within a plan?

Good storytelling! Much food for thought here.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ivrytwr]

Hel can go to herself and the discussion of evil vampires and Roy missing the forest for the trees.

Thanks Giant.
Where are the ushers and what are they doing? Did they get the fast-forward that Durkula did?

[hroþila]

Hey now, dispersing a cloud of mist by swinging something through it is a fairly common thing. What would you expect dispersing a cloud of living mist to do but hurt it?

Inconvenience it very slightly, as it has to reform a wee bit further over there if it wants to become solid again.

D&D is unrealistic is what I'm saying.

[hamishspence]

Is "Tarterus" intentional - to distinguish it from 1st ed D&D's Tartarus?

[Sith_Happens]

Why the whiffing sound effects? Gaseous Forms are still hittable.

...Unless Durkula is in Gaseous Form in the first place because Roy already got him to zero hit points. In which case go Roy.

I thought its origin would be somewhat self-evident given that I made it the same exact color as the Northern Gods' energy auras, but I guess not.

I was just about to say that.

[The Giant]

Quick art question: Roy has two black marks under his chin, on the left side of his face, in every panel. I haven't noticed them before. Are they damage marks? If so, why aren't they red like others? Or are those whiskers? Is Roy beginning to grow a beard?

I often use a mixture of black marks and red ones in order to break up the visuals from being a mass of red lines. The black ones might represent scuffs, dirt, burns, bruises, or any injury that isn't bloody. This time, I had them appear when Durkon energy drained, because who knows what that would look like anyway?

[Toper]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

You do need a magic weapon to hurt magic mist much, so it's not that silly. Anyway, the sand elemental also didn't show visible damage when struck, but it still eventually ran out of hit points. I imagine Durkula was taking damage and therefore flew out of reach.

The yellow stuff is too misty to be a standard force barrier, plus clerics can't cast those. But it stops right at the doorway, which is weird for ordinary mist or gaseous vampire spawn, and neither of those would really explain the yellow lighting effect. And the proxy aura doesn't reach that far (you can see a corner of it in panel 6). So I don't really have a good theory.

edit: ninja'd!

[Blue_C.]

If RAW allows a guy to whack a cloud of mist with a weapon and actually hurt it, then RAW is silly and should be ignored. And it would seem that's exactly what's happening, so that's good.

I've always seen it as this: you aren't actually hitting it with your weapon in and of itself, but with your weapons magic aura. Specifically force magic in d20 systems, unless that is inconvenient for some reason. For easier math, you just so happen to be able to whack someone with that magic aura just as hard without your weapon backing that swig up as you would with it.

But if that doesn't make sense to you, I won't insist on it.

Changing topics, I also think Hel's high priest might have effed up here. If she just managed to piss off all the demigods of the northern pantheon by vampirising thier high priests (or even just some of them), her majority might not be as solid as she thought.

Not sure though. Seems like a weird way to resolve it all. Perhaps instead the demigod high people killed the one vamp, then called in everyone outside for reinforcements. That'd get Haley, Elan, and V in on the action.

[ti'esar]

Hmmm. So is it possible that the HPoH killed the Stone Creed priests in order to force the High Priest of Balder to have to go looking for the demigods' representatives himself - and therefore nullifying his vote? That doesn't seem right, but it's the only possibility coming to mind. Though I suppose it's possible that this wasn't part of the plan, and that "Durkon" vampirizing the Stoners has actually come back to bite him (no pun intended).

I wonder if Roy has any chance of actually getting through to the HPoH here. Probably not.

[LordRahl6]

The barrier also explains why the HPoH attacked Exarch Hammerfall and presumably the other member of the Creed of Stone. They are needed to act as ushers should the need arise because the priests can't leave without nullifying the(ir diety's) vote.

Do love the entendre with the title of this comic regarding the fight between Roy and the HPoH.

[Basement Cat]

The barrier is a normal part of the Godsmoot. It's the answer to the question that was voiced repeatedly around these parts, "Why doesn't one of the high priests just step out of the room and nullify the vote?" but I can't fit everything in every comic, so we haven't seen it until now.

I thought its origin would be somewhat self-evident given that I made it the same exact color as the Northern Gods' energy auras, but I guess not.

I didn't notice the barrier until I started reading the replies. When I went back I figured it was what you just said.

I'd just like to add:

WAHOO!!! I figured something out that you did on my own!

Thanks for the quick confirmation

[pendell]

I often use a mixture of black marks and red ones in order to break up the visuals from being a mass of red lines. The black ones might represent scuffs, dirt, burns, bruises, or any injury that isn't bloody. This time, I had them appear when Durkon energy drained, because who knows what that would look like anyway?

Ah, thank you. So it's a damage mark indicating something other than a slash that would draw blood.

ETA: You don't need my suggestions with regard to art, obviously, but perhaps one way to display energy drain would be age-progression; wrinkles, graying hair(which Roy doesn't have), droopy skin to connote a loss of vitality.

The way you've done it is just fine. I'm just pondering the question as to how to display energy drain in a visual medium.

Thanks!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kantaki]

Why the whiffing sound effects? Gaseous Forms are still hittable.

...Unless Durkula is in Gaseous Form in the first place because Roy already got him to zero hit points. In which case go Roy.

Wouldn't being gaseous make Durkon harder to hit? And how else would hitting mist sound?

[JT]

Good to know (the barrier is part of the Godsmoot process). Makes me wonder/suspect that...
1) Teleport out is probably blocked as well
2) Ditto with Word of Recall, Plane Shift, Dimension Door, etc etc
3) Teleport, DDoor, etc coming in might be blocked or allowed
4) Presumably, even Gaseous Form will be blocked, keeping HPoH inside

I wonder if it's on the exits, or if it surrounds everything so you can't break a window or wall to get out. I'm going for the latter, if it comes up as an issue.

[grandpheonix]

I often use a mixture of black marks and red ones in order to break up the visuals from being a mass of red lines. The black ones might represent scuffs, dirt, burns, bruises, or any injury that isn't bloody. This time, I had them appear when Durkon energy drained, because who knows what that would look like anyway?

RICH! Thanks for clearing that up, was bugging me too!

As for HPoH eating the ushers, maybe he didnt realize they were part of the plan? Basically the cause and effect thing that HPoH isnt able to pull off?

[Quebbster]

Shoot, if Balder steps out, Hel is going to win isn't she?

Killing the stone-priests is to make Balder step out maybe?

If that was the issue, one Yes-priest and one No-priest could step out and keep the vote tied. I assume he simply cannot pass.

[Fitzclowningham]

Loving the combat and Roy's cluelessness about HPoH.

Oh, and Roy, it looks like you have a couple of rounds on your hands: drink a potion!

[RblDiver]

I'm looking forward to some way that Durkon can help Roy win. Sort of like Matrix 3, where the fighting Smith is standing over Neo and says something to the effect of "All things must come to an end.....wait, what was I saying?" which was the cue for Neo to accept it.