OOTS #998 - The Discussion Thread

[Windscion]

Yeah, I wondered a bit if Loki was just making a weak argument on purpose. Then I realized that Odin probably chose who would speak, and I imagine Odin is in the 'Yes' camp. In other words, it may well be a maneuver, but it need not be Loki's maneuver.

[Peelee]

Umm, why can the gods only hear each other? Is it arrogance or can they literally only hear people who are praying directly to them?

The flaw here starts early on. The gods can only hear each other. So the second option you give, that they literally only hear people praying directly to them, is not the case; they can only hear each other. This is probably only the case at the Godsmoot, which is designed as a meeting place for the gods. Not a meeting place for the gods and also any random mortals who happen to speak up.

[The Giant]

Umm, why can the gods only hear each other? Is it arrogance or can they literally only hear people who are praying directly to them? If it's the latter, then why the hell was it set-up that way? Couldn't the priests just broadcast Roy's speech to their gods? They don't trust each other enough to meet in the same place, but they have their priests meet and don't let them have any say? Or do they have say, but the gods just can't hear them during the godsmoot which, again, why would it be set-up that way? This doesn't make that much sense. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but this feels like a shoehorned plot point to be dramatic. It may have been planned well ahead of time and it could still be explained, but I don't really understand why it was laid out like this.

Because the gods do not want to hear from their priests right now. The purpose of this meeting is to listen to each other, not mortals. It's the Godsmoot, not the Priestsmoot. Do you ask the termites in your house whether or not you should fumigate? Do you hear proposals from the dust mites regarding what color you should paint the living room?

I don't know why everyone expects that the gods are some sort of universally benevolent and egalitarian group that treats mortals fairly and with respect at all times. Certainly not from anything I've ever written.

[hroþila]

I don't know why everyone expects that the gods are some sort of universally benevolent and egalitarian group that treats mortals fairly and with respect at all times. Certainly not from anything I've ever written.

If it's any consolation, I find that a sizeable proportion of people here tend to exaggerate how jerkish and selfish all the gods in OotS are, based on your depiction. So the nuances aren't lost.

[Thecommander236]

Because the gods do not want to hear from their priests right now. The purpose of this meeting is to listen to each other, not mortals. It's the Godsmoot, not the Priestsmoot. Do you ask the termites in your house whether or not you should fumigate? Do you hear proposals from the dust mites regarding what color you should paint the living room?

I don't know why everyone expects that the gods are some sort of universally benevolent and egalitarian group that treats mortals fairly and with respect at all times. Certainly not from anything I've ever written.

Ah, well fair enough. Thank you for answering. I kinda figured if the gods were discussing things with proxies then their essences or something were in the room. Or at least their attention was focused on ghat room. I figure that they are so powerful that they couldn't help hear everything going on in that room, but I guess it makes sense that they are intentionally not listening. But that just leaves me one more question: if the priests don't have any say, then why bother with the proxies? The priests all know what their particular god is voting for, but then Veldrina didn't even know what they were voting on. So... I guess all the gods are going to have proxies summoned? But why? They can hear each other with proxy or without one and if they really don't care what the priests think then the proxies only seem to be of benefit to the spectators. They do they just want to mortals to be all caught up on the goings on so that they don't feel snubbed or become dislusioned, becoming unfaithful? Or can they only hear each other without proxies and can't speak to each other without the proxy? To me, the godsmoot is a safe meeting place for the gods with the priests being the mouthpieces. I guess the simplest answer is that the priests simply don't know how their gods are going to vote and that they can't be told by the gods, thus they need the proxy. But then why have the priests be the ones to give the gods' answer? Unless, they need the proxy to speak or if it's just a way to prevent them from shouting over each other. Like "my proxy is up, 8ts my turn to speak".

That may just be answered next strip. I feel a lot better with this page now, but it's still kinda "huh?" to me, just in a different way.

[Keltest]

Ah, well fair enough. Thank you for answering. I kinda figured if the gods were discussing things with proxies then their essences or something were in the room. Or at least their attention was focused on ghat room. I figure that they are so powerful that they couldn't help hear everything going on in that room, but I guess it makes sense that they are intentionally not listening. But that just leaves me one more question: if the priests don't have any say, then why bother with the proxies? The priests all know what their particular god is voting for, but then Veldrina didn't even know what they were voting on. So... I guess all the gods are going to have proxies summoned? But why? They can hear each other with proxy or without one and if they really don't care what the priests think then the proxies only seem to be of benefit to the spectators. They do they just want to mortals to be all caught up on the goings on so that they don't feel snubbed or become dislusioned, becoming unfaithful? Or can they only hear each other without proxies and can't speak to each other without the proxy? To me, the godsmoot is a safe meeting place for the gods with the priests being the mouthpieces. I guess the simplest answer is that the priests simply don't know how their gods are going to vote and that they can't be told by the gods, thus they need the proxy. But then why have the priests be the ones to give the gods' answer? Unless, they need the proxy to speak or if it's just a way to prevent them from shouting over each other. Like "my proxy is up, 8ts my turn to speak".

That may just be answered next strip. I feel a lot better with this page now, but it's still kinda "huh?" to me, just in a different way.

My understanding is that the proxies are used so that the gods can interact without being able to get... unruly if they were to be frustrated over something. At best, they can rant and shout at each other right now, but they wont start tugging on the threads of reality to prove their point again, because they aren't actually there.

[ti'esar]

I don't know why everyone expects that the gods are some sort of universally benevolent and egalitarian group that treats mortals fairly and with respect at all times. Certainly not from anything I've ever written.

I actually think it's something of a compliment to how OOTS has handled alignment. The comic so far has done a really good job of addressing the perceived inconsistencies of the alignment system, and presenting Good and Evil characters who actually are recognizable as good and evil people. So it can seem a bit odd that the "good" gods largely seem to be about as self-centered and jerkish as the evil ones.

[The Giant]

I actually think it's something of a compliment to how OOTS has handled alignment. The comic so far has done a really good job of addressing the perceived inconsistencies of the alignment system, and presenting Good and Evil characters who actually are recognizable as good and evil people. So it can seem a bit odd that the "good" gods largely seem to be about as self-centered and jerkish as the evil ones.

Why do you seem to think that the Good gods are in control here? Why do you think that actions taken by "the gods" as a group necessarily reflect the will of the Good gods, as opposed to those of the Neutral and Evil gods?

The rules of the Godsmoot—including whether or not mortals can have their arguments be heard—have been decided by all of the gods in advance, roughly two-thirds of which are not Good by any definition.

[Forikroder]

so hes my crazy theory about whats about to happen

the gods end up voting yes

now obviously this would mean theyd destroy the world, but theres a catch they set things up so the gods cant actually use there magic on or in the world directly, to prevent someone from doing something stupid or something, so they need there high priests to do it for them, they supply there priests with power and the priests cast a ritual to destroy the world

so all the high priests start casting the ritual and set up some barrier to prevent the less faithful (IE the bodyguards with sharp pointy metal sticks) from interupting it so Roy and Wreckan cant get inside and they all start deep trancing on the ritual not knowing theres a wolf among the sheep

Durkula then uses that as an opportunity and while there all toop focused on the ritual kills them all (this stops the immediate question of "why dont he high priests follow Roy to curbstomp Xykon) and the barrier goes down, disaster diverted

but roy doesnt like it, he cant really argue against what Durkon did (since he "saved" the world) but he doesnt like the method, this is when Durkons "aye thats something to look forward to" comes into play, he starts feeding the vampire a few very specific memories that seem like they would be relevant for the vampire to use to try to calm down roy, but what he doesnt realise is the memories actually end up pointing to the complete opposite of what hes trying to say, but Roy realises whats going on and right as hes about to completely connect the dots Belkar kicks down the door jumps in and tells Roy what he saw

im guessing Durkulas plan involves something important thats present at the Godsmoot, something material or maybe not, and the 2 vampires he made earlier (or maybe he attended it personally) is doing something to that that will end up channeling ALOT of power to Hel

[Thecommander236]

Well. Hel stands to clean up here in the souls department if the world is destroyed, what with all the worshippers of the Northern Gods who won't be dying honourably in battle. A "yes" vote by Durkon is looking likely.

Yet I can't help but think that Hel's big scheme involves more than just having her representative show up and cast a vote at Godsmoot (even if it turns out to be the deciding one). We shall see.

Anyway, another great update. Thanks, Giant!

Well, that's tough, because the gods could see that as a nominal "self-sacrifice" on the part of the dwarves (if dwarves really are the only species that can go to Hel). They gave their lives to save the gods' lives whether they chose to do so or not. They may just side with Thor on that point. However, even if the souls would go to Hel, it would only boost her for the creation of the next world. It may not be enough for her to have any better chance of swaying the other gods. Plus she may get MORE souls in the long-term if she let's the world keep on trucking. If she won't have more sway for the next world, then she is going to want to build up an army of dishonorable followers on the current one. She may not be expecting to lose the HPoH.

I'll second the hope that Roy's speech will be useful.

Also, are the gods just not commenting on the world inside the Snarl?

If the gods AR more susceptible to the Snarl, they may be too afraid to even LOOK through the rifts. People have become hypnotized from doing that. The gods may fall under the Snarl's sway even faster than them depending on just how weak they are to the Snarl. Shojo only said that the gods were only more vulnerable than a mortal of "equivalent level" or something like that. There may be no mortal that is anywhere close to those levels so that gods could still resist for a longer period of time.

In OOtS universe the year is 1185. I'm right? Let's read this stip again then.

Panel 6. The Orlace says that he is going to die again on March 26, year 1187... So I think gods will not destroy the world. But I can't wait to see what will happen next!

Heh, good catch. I hope you're right. It could turn out that the gods can destroy fate or that the Oracle and his buddies can escape to another realm in order to wait for the next world to be finished.

In panel 9 (when the gods' images are being summoned), it should be either "proxy" or "proxies".

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

That could have been a projection of Tiger.

Would that actually make any difference though?

By the way, whichever god received Tsukiko's soul might know too.

Huh. That might be a game changer, but her god would be in the South, right? They didn't send any representatives to this meeting unless they have one to pass on word of how the vote goes as peoe have suggested. Still, that might be revelation if the world survives. I'm going to go ahead and say that the world will be spared... for now.

My guess:

Voting goes on, next strip probably with Durkon disilluded with Thor voting "Yes" and Hel voting "No", then Durkon embracing his Dark Side and helping Durkula. Voting ends tied, calling the main runner-up God: The Dark One, who will give a great explanation about how he brought it up and how he fears its outcome (since he is already a God of a great city now), then voting "No".

World not destroyed yet, but new sides still need to stop Xykon, IFCC, etc...

I'm not sure. If the Dark One counts as a god now, he would be a Southern one because that's where Azure City is.

I'm thinking along similar lines. Perhaps the Dark One, Loki, Hel, Rat, and who knows who else are trying to leverage the situation to wipe out their divine rivals. If the gods wipe out the world and start over, their "kill my rivals with the Snarl" plan is set way back. I can see the Dark One voting against ending the world on that basis.

It's been pointed out before, but I think it's worth repeating. Loki is the one who told Thor to NOT mess with the crazed god killing abomination. I have a feeling that Loki isn't down with The Plan.

[Peelee]

People have become hypnotized from doing that.

...no they haven't?

[Forikroder]

...no they haven't?

he might be reffering to laurins eye change looking through the rift, and IIRC miron dragged her to safety

[Thecommander236]

Perhaps the Calendar of the Gods dates from the creation of the first world.

If 1185 is the year of the current world, then the previous world was destroyed in its year 2016-1185 = 831.

Maybe.

Well, it also says that the gods hide for centuries after the Snarl destroyed everything. It would be kinda weird that they were still using such an old calender after so long, but it could just be a "never forget" kind of thing. Honestly, though, it's probably just a reference to the USA presidential elections.

Whatever exists within the Rifts is a creative force. It's made an entire world. Any destruction it causes outside of the Rifts might be because it believes that its world is the only valid one.

I think the Snarl might actually be the Eastern Gods, who just couldn't get along with the rest of the pantheons and were locked away.

Oh yeah, and this comic rocks.

Ha! And those colorful tentacles are strands of the world itself, acting as a sentry for divine prison.
And Dark One plans to expose this treachery.

: What a twist!

See there's two things I've considered: 1. People aren't obliterated when the Snarl consumes them, they just get trapped on the first world; 2. That the first world is our world. Neither possibility really makes that much sense any more because Laurinaitis said that she couldn't sense any fish in the ocean of that world which doesn't make sense if every living thing on that planet actually survived (in which case it's just a dead world which is creepy as hell, but that doesn't explain why the world still seems to have vegetation). It could just be that Laurin's powers are just being blocked from sensing anything or she just hit a vast dead patch of ocean like we have in our world.

Tiny art thing: Heimdall is opaque in the second frame.

2 more comics til the big 1k...something big's coming

You guys keep saying that Rich will do something special for the thousandth strip. You do realize that he may do nothing special for it just to screw with us, right?

Alas Poor Yorick Roy, the Gods can't hear you, and apparently they are the ones voting. I liked how there was the role reversal of Ragnarok with Heimdall representing those for immediate dissolution of the world, and Loki waiting it out.

Technically it's not a role reversal as Heimdall is the one in Norse Mythology who warns the other gods that Ragnarok has started by blowing the "everything's f***ed" horn. Plus Loki never meant to cause the end of the world, he just inadvertently causes it by killing the wrong person.

I'm surprised that Loki is apparently an evil god. Is that D&D convention? In mythology, he isn't necessarily evil.

It is and I never liked that Loki is always made out to be a villain. I was kind of annoyed when Rich went along with that line of reasoning but it makes sense since D&D did it and this is specifically V.3.5.

You know, that reminds me. In all of the theorycrafting that's been going on lately, between the HPoH, Belkar's potential death, and now the Godsmoot, we really haven't factored in the IFCC pulling strings behind the scenes. I don't know if they have any cards to play to DIRECTLY impact this vote, but surely the world being completely remade would throw a spanner in their works, and presumably they know of the moot, if for no other reason than their surveillance of the Order. They won't possess V, and merely dragging hir soul back down isn't going to accomplish anything here, but is there anything else they can do to sway the vote? Or do they think that they simply won't NEED to?

I still say that Loki made a crappy argument because he already knows the majority vote is going to be to preserve the world. By the way, I thought didn't it say somewhere that Veldrina had been travelling for months or even years to get to this moot?

A thought on the world inside the rift:

Spoiler

Show

In the Crayons of Time, Soon tells us that the Snarl "devoured every soul, from the mightiest dragon to the tiniest gnat." He then goes on to say that it had undone creation, but what if he's wrong? What if the world inside the rifts is the first world the gods created?

I love it when people arrive at the same conclusion I do even if it years later. Thank you.

The Azurites are going to look like pirates raiding a city to all the nations that have given Gobbotopia recognition. Under the Lawful Good leadership of Hinjo, the Azurites will not even be able to attack Gobbotopia until those seventeen nations have rescinded their recognition, or at least broken off all diplomatic agreements with Gobbotopia. In effect, Redcloak has already won - he has created a practical and well-rsourced Goblinoid nation that is recognised and respected by the other races as equal to their own nations, and he did it without fiddling around with a Gate, but by attacking an existing city and staying to settle it rather than withdrawing after looting it - which is pretty much how the Vikings got their possessions in Normandy and northern England.

Your logic is a little flawed there. Just because other nations recognize the city doesn't mean that it would be unlawful to attack them. You are assuming that all nations are lawful and that some of those 17 nations may have recognized the goblin state out of fear of being attacked themselves. Azure City is a nation in exile, they have as much claim to the city the goblins do and there could be dozens of nations that would recognize their right to get their city back especially if the goblins start screwing with other nations. You are also forgetting that Red Cloak is Lawful Evil and the fact that Azure City was a recohnized sovereign state didn't stop him from conquering it. Plus, the Azurites can claim that bringing the murderers of their families to justice is lawful and it is good for them to kill an evil state. Sure it could make them hypocrites (as they killed goblin families), but that was their duty in order to protect the gate (and they were technically right to do so as the attack of the goblins lead to the destruction of the gate under the guidance of Red Cloak and the stupidity of Miko). As a nation that has lead to the gods themselves consider the situation so dangerous that world may have to be destroyed to save it, the Azurites could easily attack Gobbotopia in the name of justice.

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Redcloak also believes that the destruction of the world will result in improvement for goblinkind in the next world; the Dark One will be there with the other gods, and strife during creation of the first world is what resulted in the Snarl in the first place. So he'll get a say unless they want another Snarl scenario.

I'm certain Redcloak would vastly prefer the completion of the Plan as advertised, but he'll still see the destruction of the world as an improvement over the status quo. So pushing ahead with the Plan, even with the risk of it destroying the world instead, is win/win to him.

I'm confused by this, how do we know that's true? That's just one man's opinion. The Dark One may have no say whatsoever if the world is destroyed. If he is universally hated by the other gods, couldn't they just throw him to the Snarl if he tries to speak up and be done with it? We can theorize that he has allies but what are the cancer that they could help him when the other gods bum rush him. He may need access to the Snarl to have the leverage to get a say in the Third World.

It would be interesting if Hilgya showed up as the High Priest of Loki (or at least in the Loki entourage), with Durkon/Durkula's son/daughter. THAT would cause some complicated tensions between dwarves, dwarven gods and evil negative energy beings.

I personally wanted the Chaotic neutral priest to be there. The one that Belkar's convinced to beat Blind Pete to death. Loved that guy.

Oh my god, yes! We never did learn her fate.

It would be a nice pay-off to see here there as well. My unlikely prediction is that the two of them were with the Loki headpriest and arrive to save Belkar and inform Roy that the HPoH isn't Durken. That would be a great pay-off.

I am reasonably familiar with American politics but I see no particular connection between Trump and Loki.

Hey Mad Humanist. Glad to see you here. I agree with you. There's nothing pointing to Donald Trump here. See you back on Erf.

The election joke is not referencing any specific candidate, simply the idea of the election.

Please refrain from discussing real world politics, even in relation to OOTS.

I'll give Humanist a shucked for being the voice of reason later on. XD

so hes my crazy theory about whats about to happen

the gods end up voting yes

now obviously this would mean theyd destroy the world, but theres a catch they set things up so the gods cant actually use there magic on or in the world directly, to prevent someone from doing something stupid or something, so they need there high priests to do it for them, they supply there priests with power and the priests cast a ritual to destroy the world

so all the high priests start casting the ritual and set up some barrier to prevent the less faithful (IE the bodyguards with sharp pointy metal sticks) from interupting it so Roy and Wreckan cant get inside and they all start deep trancing on the ritual not knowing theres a wolf among the sheep

Durkula then uses that as an opportunity and while there all toop focused on the ritual kills them all (this stops the immediate question of "why dont he high priests follow Roy to curbstomp Xykon) and the barrier goes down, disaster diverted

but roy doesnt like it, he cant really argue against what Durkon did (since he "saved" the world) but he doesnt like the method, this is when Durkons "aye thats something to look forward to" comes into play, he starts feeding the vampire a few very specific memories that seem like they would be relevant for the vampire to use to try to calm down roy, but what he doesnt realise is the memories actually end up pointing to the complete opposite of what hes trying to say, but Roy realises whats going on and right as hes about to completely connect the dots Belkar kicks down the door jumps in and tells Roy what he saw

im guessing Durkulas plan involves something important thats present at the Godsmoot, something material or maybe not, and the 2 vampires he made earlier (or maybe he attended it personally) is doing something to that that will end up channeling ALOT of power to Hel

Damn, man, I would pay you for that theory if this forum had currency.

he might be reffering to laurins eye change looking through the rift, and IIRC miron dragged her to safety

Correct, that and the fact that Blackwing lost all control when he looked into the rift. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html

Anyone who looks in for too long develops purple eyes. It seems to paralyze people and mesmerize them like an entrails spell or something.

[Gift Jeraff]

I still say that Loki made a crappy argument because he already knows the majority vote is going to be to preserve the world. By the way, I thought didn't it say somewhere that Veldrina had been travelling for months or even years to get to this moot?

No, she said it was announced 3 days ago. The two or three years line was a reference to the fact that it had been three years since the Kickstarter.

Correct, that and the fact that Blackwing lost all control when he looked into the rift. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html

Anyone who looks in for too long develops purple eyes. It seems to paralyze people and mesmerize them like an entrails spell or something.

Blackwing always gets like that with shiny/fascinating objects:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0803.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html

A zoom-in of Laurin's eyes shows that it's a reflection of the Snarl's(?) threads.

[Thecommander236]

No, she said it was announced 3 days ago. The two or three years line was a reference to the fact that it had been three years since the Kickstarter.

Blackwing always gets like that with shiny/fascinating objects:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0803.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html

A zoom-in of Laurin's eyes shows that it's a reflection of the Snarl's(?) threads.

A reference to the Kickstarter was my second guess. Blackwing's eyes are shining gold in that 2nd strip and his eyes aren't shining at all in the 1st or 3rd one. I can't remember for sure but I think Haley's eyes glow gold at some point as well, but purple is a very distinct color. I get that Blackwing is distracted by shiny things but the case with the rift doesn't seem to follow suit. Rich is smart and he plans ahead. I'm thinking he made Blackwing's eyes purple in that strip because it was a pay-off to Laurin gazing into the rift as well. The difference between the two is that Laurin was using magic to gaze into the rift which may have drawn the snarl's attention.

Can you offer any other case of people's eyes glowing purple like that. I know Laurin's glowed gold when she was casting.

[Gift Jeraff]

Blackwing's eyes are glowing purple because they're reflecting the rift. Laurin's eyes aren't glowing purple, they're a mishmash of the Snarl's blue and purple colors.

Character's eyes also glow purple if they are under the effects of a mind-affecting spell from a caster with a purple magic aura:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html

[Thecommander236]

Blackwing's eyes are glowing purple because they're reflecting the rift. Laurin's eyes aren't glowing purple, they're a mishmash of the Snarl's blue and purple colors.

Character's eyes also glow purple if they are under the effects of a mind-affecting spell from a caster with a purple magic aura:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html

That kind of proves my point though doesn't it? That tells me that they may have been mesmerized. Plus, Blackwing's eyes only shined when he stared into the portal for several second and they were shining purple not the blue of the planet in there. The thing that kind lends credence to my theory is that nothing else near that rift was shining purple otherwise Xykon's bones would have been tinted as well as they are just as white as Blackwing's eyes and he was the same distance away from the singularity. I may be looking too much into it, but until proven oyherwise, I don't really see much evidence to the contrary. A god killing abomination is probably one of those things that give you mind-control eyes and is something that man was not meant to know (though I dislike that latter concept).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...indControlEyes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...NotMeantToKnow

Were you interested in any other of the statements that I put forward?

[Ralanr]

The only God we've seen of the good alignment to give a crap about mortals is Thor, and I don't think we've been given a reason as to why (I doubt we've ever asked). And by giving a crap I mean actually interacting or even doing one mortal a favor (12 gods I don't think interacted at all with the mortals).

So why is it that the gods don't often interact with the mortals? What was the purpose of creating the mortals?

Also, Odin. He seems to act a bit "out there" when he's shown. He's the God of wisdom in Norse mythology (and many other things) and it might have shown up when he wanted Banjo in his pantheon, but other times he's a bit absent minded. Is he acting the fool? If so, who could he be acting for?

[Gift Jeraff]

That kind of proves my point though doesn't it? That tells me that they may have been mesmerized. Plus, Blackwing's eyes only shined when he stared into the portal for several second and they were shining purple not the blue of the planet in there. The thing that kind lends credence to my theory is that nothing else near that rift was shining purple otherwise Xykon's bones would have been tinted as well as they are just as white as Blackwing's eyes and he was the same distance away from the singularity. I may be looking too much into it, but until proven oyherwise, I don't really see much evidence to the contrary. A god killing abomination is probably one of those things that give you mind-control eyes and is something that man was not meant to know (though I dislike that latter concept).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...indControlEyes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...NotMeantToKnow

Were you interested in any other of the statements that I put forward?

Xykon's eyes didn't glow purple because he wasn't staring directly at the rift; his focus was on the phylactery. It's more of a dramatic effect than a literal "this is how the rift's light reflects on objects at this precise distance and angle."

I just find it odd that people see a character pause at the sight of something absolutely mind-blowing (a planet inside the planet and a deific abomination) and their first thought is that it's a magical effect. Characters acting like characters seems more in line with Rich's writing than him statting out the Snarl's special abilities.

[Thecommander236]

I swear I love this comic, but it just kinda weird that every strip needs a joke and that the gods act like morons. I love the silliness and all, but it's literally impossible to answer your questions because the gods only appear when they have something funny to say or to make the people talking about them look like idiots. We've never seen a god being introspective or anything like tha, for example. The running theory on TV Tropes is that Thor is Chaotic good based on his appearances and no one can figure out why because in 3.5 D&D you can't be a cleric of a god whose two steps off your alignment. To be a cleric of a chaotic good god, you need to be chaotic good, neutral good, or chaotic neutral. By D&D rules, Durken shouldn't be able to be his cleric since he is Lawful Good, two steps off Thor's predicted alignment. Well why is Thor so silly if he wasn't chaotic, that's what the Tropers are confused about.

The other camp assumes that rule was just thrown out the window for the comic because of the rule of funny. That explanation just seems so... unsatisfying to me, though. I just assume we are catching Thor in his weirdest moments and that he is actually Lawful Good like he is in D&D, though Rich may just be balancing out the alignments within the gods' ranks or something. I can't read the man's mind.

Xykon's eyes didn't glow purple because he wasn't staring directly at the rift; his focus was on the phylactery. It's more of a dramatic effect than a literal "this is how the rift's light reflects on objects at this precise distance and angle."

I just find it odd that people see a character pause at the sight of something absolutely mind-blowing (a planet inside the planet and a deific abomination) and their first thought is that it's a magical effect. Characters acting like characters seems more in line with Rich's writing than him statting out the Snarl's special abilities.

I'm not talking about his eyes. I'm talking about his bones. They're white. The color white reflects light, that's why it's white. He should be glowing purple in that frame if light is reflecting off Blackwing. And really, it's not as big a deal as your making tbis. The Snarl hasn't even really been encountered yet, I was just spitballing. Posing a theory. One with little proof that I happen to like. In time we may see such powers manifested by the Snarl if it ever appears.

Now is there any OTHER part of my message that interests you? Because that's stuff I wanted more input on. I don't really care too much about this given that Belkar's eyes glow yellow when he is hypnotized.

[Keltest]

I'm not talking about his eyes. I'm talking about his bones. They're white. The color white reflects light, that's why it's white. He should be glowing purple in that frame if light is reflecting off Blackwing. And really, it's not as big a deal as your making tbis. The Snarl hasn't even really been encountered yet, I was just spitballing. Posing a theory. One with little proof that I happen to like. In time we may see such powers manifested by the Snarl if it ever appears.

He does. Its not at pronounced as Blackwing's eyes, but everything is at least slightly more purple when exposed to the rift. Redcloak even comments on it.

[Thecommander236]

He does. Its not at pronounced as Blackwing's eyes, but everything is at least slightly more purple when exposed to the rift. Redcloak even comments on it.

It would probably be easier to see if I wasn't slightly color-blind I suppose, but the eyes just seem so much more drastically altered. Well, whatever.

[Peelee]

It would probably be easier to see if I wasn't slightly color-blind I suppose, but the eyes just seem so much more drastically altered. Well, whatever.

I am too; amusingly, i cannot see the color purple. Like, at all. Looks like blue. But i can tell that in every strip that occurs close to ghe Gobbotopia rift, everything is tinged purple (blue, to me). The effect it seems to have on Blackwing is not hypnosis or a magical effect so much as it is shock at what he is seeing, coupled with the color change of rift-closeness.

[Gift Jeraff]

Now is there any OTHER part of my message that interests you?

What message are you talking about?

[Bulldog Psion]

Hm. I always assumed Blackwing and Laurin were mesmerized in some fashion by the rift or the Snarl itself.

[dmaxno]

Great comic, thanks!
This is worth all the slow updates. Each time I see the updates slowing down, I can't help but think that the story is building up further ahead (which I think come as a set of fairly quick updates).

I can't wait for the HPoH and Hel's plan.

[Gnoman]

That the first world is our world.

This theory has been proposed many, many times.

It has sparked response.

So no, it STILL isn't Earth in the Rift. It will never be Earth in the Rift. Earth will never show up.

[Thecommander236]

Hm. I always assumed Blackwing and Laurin were mesmerized in some fashion by the rift or the Snarl itself.

Yeah see that was my first assumption. Maybe someone could easy resist something like that if they expected it to happen.

I am too; amusingly, i cannot see the color purple. Like, at all. Looks like blue. But i can tell that in every strip that occurs close to ghe Gobbotopia rift, everything is tinged purple (blue, to me). The effect it seems to have on Blackwing is not hypnosis or a magical effect so much as it is shock at what he is seeing, coupled with the color change of rift-closeness.

That us my second guess so I can live with that. Either way, I see no reason to rule either possibility out. That's all I was saying. See, I get really confused when I see a color that I define as red and it is "officially" pointed out as orange like in a TV show or something.

What message are you talking about?

You know those 1000 word posts I was pumping out. I kinda wanted some feedback. I spent a decent amount of time writing those.

This theory has been proposed many, many times.

It has sparked response.

Sweet, thank you. Just had to throw it out there just in case. I seriously doubted that option any ways, but it's nice to be sure of it.

Also I have new information on the last gate (technically old information), but O'Chul and Lien headed off to the last gate in case the Oracle was wrong about Xykon's intended target. They would only be scouting and would contact the OotS if the Lich arrived there. They had plenty of time to arrive at the gate. So there's a few possibilities: they are dead, they are captured, or Xykon hasn't arrived yet. I doubt they are dead (being popular and important characters) which just leaves the other two options. There are three groups in my mind that could have captured them. The monsters in Kraagor's Gate, Xykon, or the IFCC. Option E- Option D being the unlikely possibility that they STILL haven't found the Gate- is that there is a Cloister spell in the area, but that doesn't really make sense as they could leave the AoE. I guess Option F is that they are trapped in a cave somewhere. My gut feeling is that Xykon is simply not there yet. I don't know why he wouldn't be, but that seems the likely option so there's room for hope I guess. There is a slim possibility that they have to use Durkon as the mouthpiece but that seems unlikely as well. Tell me if this has been theorized before.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html

The real terrible thing is that the MitD's earlier bluff may have screwed O'Chul since they Xykon decided to leave Girard's Gate immediately instead of killing the PC's, but now they are on the lookout for O'Chul at the last gate. Plus Xykon was going to teleport right to the last gate. Was there a change of plans?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html

To further cement myself in the "the comic is not ending" camp, we haven't heard from Niu, the female samurai from the resistance. She managed to flee the massacre of the group on orders of the Paladin Thanh. As someone else pointed out, there are WAY two many plot points hanging around for the story to just end for a silly joke.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html

EDIT: Okay, found it, Hinjo and the Order knows of the Resistance's fall.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0893.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0895.html

[tgva8889]

The real question I would like answered: what level spell is summon proxie?

[Doug Lampert]

They use the intermediaries to avoid personal contact because they can do it. Remove all other options, and the gods can probably work together. Back in world #1 they didn't know to avoid conflict.

Yep, the existence of a safety precaution, "We don't meet directly lest we bring about Snarl Junior" does not mean that the absence of the safety precaution will inevitably cause disaster, or even that the absence is intolerably dangerous if you don't have a good alternative.

I've had a tire blow out three times in my life while driving at speed. Oddly, my car has never spontaneously found a cliff, thrown itself over the edge, and exploded in mid air on the way down. (Possibly TV has mislead me as to the inevitable result of a significant blowout at speed.) I've had a friend hit the brakes, and his foot go all the way to the floor as the failed hydraulic cylinder provided no resistance, and also no brakes. Strangely, he also lived to tell the tale with no significant injuries (although he did total the car).

Yet, despite this fairly solid evidence that many automobile safety precautions aren't actually needed, I try to change the tires on my car regularly, so as to avoid additional blowouts and other problems. And I strongly suspect my friend has his brakes checked periodically. And we both wear our safety belt, even though its been decades since I've even been in a fender bender.

And despite all the evidence that cars aren't completely safe, we still get in them. And if either of us NEEDED to use a car that we knew hadn't been properly maintained and had no safety belts or air bags, I suspect we'd get in, and turn the key. Because the safety precaution is nice, but it's not actually required all (or even most) of the time. But you only know if this was the time that the lack of the safety precaution gets you killed AFTER it's too late to do anything about it, so you take precautions when practical.

The fact that the gods don't want entire pantheons in the same room while they argue the fate of the world, lest things get heated, doesn't mean that Tiger can't show up where Thor is and say, "Not in my territory you don't", and it doesn't mean that Loki and Thor can't argue, or Thor and Hel can't get together to argue over a soul, or that Thor can't hang out with Odin, and it doesn't mean that the gods CAN'T meet in person to make a new world.

All it means, all it needs to mean, is that given an easily available alternative, the gods don't see any point in the risk of large, in person meetings to argue things out.