General Exalted Thread XV: "We hate it and it looks adopted"

[golentan]

Say what you want about the circumstances of 2nd age creation, as far as I'm concerned the Usurpation was fully justified. And the Immaculate Order has a lot on the ball, even if they've screwed up the explanation of the cycle of reincarnation. I've had solar characters who could be described as Pro-Realm for many reasons.

[Exthalion]

Say what you want about the circumstances of 2nd age creation, as far as I'm concerned the Usurpation was fully justified.

On the basis of things like Operation Wyldhand or the general vague hints from 1E and early 2E?

Also, even if the Usurpation was justified (which I am not admitting) the horrific mess the Sidereals and their lackeys made of Creation after the fact most certainly is not.

And the Immaculate Order has a lot on the ball, even if they've screwed up the explanation of the cycle of reincarnation.

Their not screwing up the explanation as much as propagating false information. While a real investigation would turn up the way things actually work, they have a very vested interest in the lie their religion is built around not being exposed.

Oh, and there is also the fact that they prop up an exploitative and imperialistic power, that already has demigod nobility, and brazenly explain away the terrible behavior of that nobility as being essentially beneficial to the soul in nature by virtue of the noble's superior birth.

But the protection racket they run is generally better for humans than the protection rackets that gods tend to run.

I've had solar characters who could be described as Pro-Realm for many reasons.

There are many sane and logical reasons to be pro-Realm. The Immaculate Order being one of those reasons, for a Solar, is somewhat analogous to being a pro-European Muslim during the Crusades with no possibility of real conversion.

[golentan]

On the basis of things like Operation Wyldhand or the general vague hints from 1E and early 2E?

Also, even if the Usurpation was justified (which I am not admitting) the horrific mess the Sidereals and their lackeys made of Creation after the fact most certainly is not.

We've got some pretty specific lists of horrors propagated by the solars at the height of their power. There was operation Wyldhand, to be sure. One of my favorites was the scream organ. Oh, there was the time of cascading years, when solar civil war did actually break creation, though that time it was fixable. There were the slave races, and boy was THAT a colossal clusterwhoops in the ethics department. There was the straight up fact that, when warned that they were disrupting reality, many solars' responses were "Really, what if we scale it up by a factor of 100? What happens to reality then?" Paragon was pretty scary back in the day, and so was a lot of what they were doing with the Black Mirror. I could go on.

I won't deny that the Shogunate and the Realm have done some similarly questionable things (Marama's Fell and the Slave Coast spring to mind), but I'd argue that the scope of their evil was more limited, that it didn't imperil the fabric of reality in the same way, and that that should be enough to give them the upper hand in moral debates even before bringing up prophecy. Plus, most of the most serious damage to creation since then can once again be traced to "The Former Solars were, are and might always be psychotic." Stupid deathlords.

Their not screwing up the explanation as much as propagating false information. While a real investigation would turn up the way things actually work, they have a very vested interest in the lie their religion is built around not being exposed.

Oh, and there is also the fact that they prop up an exploitative and imperialistic power, that already has demigod nobility, and brazenly explain away the terrible behavior of that nobility as being essentially beneficial to the soul in nature by virtue of the noble's superior birth.

But the protection racket they run is generally better for humans than the protection rackets that gods tend to run.

I'm not willing to rule out that there is a spiritual path that leads to reincarnation as a dragonblood. After all, the mandala accords are still in effect, no? Plus there's the sidereal power that designates someone for reincarnation as a terrestrial. A meritocracy of souls isn't out of the question, and honestly their best shot at understanding reincarnation is through their sidereal advisors. At which point the question isn't "are they lying for their own benefit" so much as "how inaccurate is the information their friends in heaven have fed them."

Also, for the record, the Immaculate Order specifically calls out that bad dragonblooded don't get to be dragonblooded in their next life, and has served to try and reign in excesses among the great houses numerous times. It does say that mortal souls don't get tarnished by immoral acts compelled by a dragonblood, and that the dragonblood bears the responsibility for all such failings.

In fact, a significant part of immaculate doctrine is concerned with providing balancing virtues to pursue for dynasts to limit the excesses which are often in the nature of the exalted, and shaming dynasts for failing to live up to those ideals in a way that mortals can't.

There are many sane and logical reasons to be pro-Realm. The Immaculate Order being one of those reasons, for a Solar, is somewhat analogous to being a pro-European Muslim during the Crusades with no possibility of real conversion.

This strikes me as a flawed analogy. We know of an Immaculate society which doesn't particularly persecute Anathema, as represented by Lookshy. The regulation of gods in areas outside of direct solar control alone justifies large swathes of immaculate practice in my mind, so supporting it while taking steps to prevent it killing you and cause some reform so that you can play nice in a century or two seems a fairly balanced approach to take to me.

[Turalisj]

@Maugan Ra, give undeserved power to a stupid peon, you get Solars like from said example.

Who said the words "With great power comes great perks ?" and these two would totally agree. Were the guy from said example not a Dawn but Eclipse he would talk the guy to death, and the thief chick to "love" him, showing us all the jummy side of Solar "Utopia".

Saying so ... all this, and how authors portrayed most NPC Solars, the joke about Desus being swell guy loses all charm. He ... at least, keeps up the appearances for most of the time.

Said by the guy playing a literal fire dragon who somehow has a forest paradise in the Far South...

[Gensh]

I still think I have the best solution regarding the Usurpation: it's irrelevant in the face of the greater sin that is the Primordial War. You do have social Charms, guys.

[TimeWizard]

There have always been and will always be only to groups of people in Geopolitics, fictional or not (although lets not bring IRL examples in): People who do bad things and people who would do bad things if they had the power. The Primordial War was the first act in a long, steady line of Ruining Things for Everyone. This is Creation, after all, things only get worse.

[Rockphed]

While I agree that almost everyone falls in one of those categories, some people do not. On earth we call them angels or saints. Every once in a blue moon someone gets power and proceeds to not screw anything up. The problem is that so many people assume they are in the third category. People who recognize that they are in the first two categories tend to be cautious about causing problems.

This leads to an interesting idea about the great curse: it blocks the voice in people's heads that asks "what could go wrong?"

[Exthalion]

While I agree that almost everyone falls in one of those categories, some people do not. On earth we call them angels or saints. Every once in a blue moon someone gets power and proceeds to not screw anything up. The problem is that so many people assume they are in the third category. People who recognize that they are in the first two categories tend to be cautious about causing problems.

This leads to an interesting idea about the great curse: it blocks the voice in people's heads that asks "what could go wrong?"

That is more or less explicitly the Sidereal version of the Curse. The Solar version veers more toward "Good people do good things, and I am a good person. So [insert most recent atrocity] must be a good thing."

[Qwertystop]

No, it blocks the second voice, the one that answers with a list of what, exactly, could go wrong.

[Endless Query]

This is a bit off topic (And by a bit, I mean totally) from the current discourse, but one of my friends recently started playing a Jadeborn and I, being the more experienced Exalted player, was presented with some questions. I, not knowing a darn thing about the Jadeborn, couldn't answer them so I'm bringing them here, if anyone would be so kind as to fill me in:

1) Can Jadeborn learn Terrestrial Martial arts? I assumed they couldn't learn Celestial, but I don't know if someone in their Great Geas or weird... Charm... Thing setup they lot the ability to learn Terrestrials too (I know they can't learn Sorcery).

2) Apparently in the Jadeborn book one of the comics features one of them throwing a punch that more or less makes everyone else in the room explode, or creates a giant explosion or something, does anyone know what that charm is?

3) Any general survival tips? Really useful charms they should try to grab? They seem to have a very non-standard existence and experience , so I don't even know what's actually good.

4) Finally, is the Enlightened Path considered in Caste for Enlightened Jadeborn?

Yeah, that's about everything, I appreciate any help that is given!

[Exthalion]

This is a bit off topic (And by a bit, I mean totally) from the current discourse, but one of my friends recently started playing a Jadeborn and I, being the more experienced Exalted player, was presented with some questions. I, not knowing a darn thing about the Jadeborn, couldn't answer them so I'm bringing them here, if anyone would be so kind as to fill me in:

1) Can Jadeborn learn Terrestrial Martial arts? I assumed they couldn't learn Celestial, but I don't know if someone in their Great Geas or weird... Charm... Thing setup they lot the ability to learn Terrestrials too (I know they can't learn Sorcery).

2) Apparently in the Jadeborn book one of the comics features one of them throwing a punch that more or less makes everyone else in the room explode, or creates a giant explosion or something, does anyone know what that charm is?

3) Any general survival tips? Really useful charms they should try to grab? They seem to have a very non-standard existence and experience , so I don't even know what's actually good.

4) Finally, is the Enlightened Path considered in Caste for Enlightened Jadeborn?

Yeah, that's about everything, I appreciate any help that is given!

1) No (Scroll of Fallen Races p. 48)

2) Inescapable Volcano Stance, with the punch we see only being the last one and not the only.

3) I don't play them, so I don't know. orry.

4) Yes

[Rikandur Azebol]

@Endless Query, general survival ? Play it safe. Assume everyone attacking you is lethal threat, as if you were playing mortal character.

Ask ST if he lets Enlightened Jadeborn heal like Exalted. If not ... be extra wary as scratch canwill lead to death.

Your Warrior Caste Pattern give equivalent of low-end Celestial Martial Arts in combat potential. Without Perfects, of course. Strong point of Jadeborn is teamwork, even more than your typical Dragon-Blooded. But they need ten experienced and well equipped Jadeborn per your usual starting DB.
Artifacts and long lasting buffs are another strong points of the Jadeborn. If you could have ally DB who'll employ you when on the surface. You will not get pokes from Great Geas and get paid. Plus in case of danger you can run to your employer to deal with it.

Alternatively you can try Chaos Pattern ... but it cures Great Geas at the cost of making psychopath out of you. With compulsive need to kick puppies till they bleed.

No ... not like Desus. You lack his social suave to make it look justified.

Said by the guy playing a literal fire dragon who somehow has a forest paradise in the Far South...

It's mine and ... as long as I'll avoid notice of Celestial Exalted will remain mine. Mah precious. Plus I justified getting my nifty powers and ST accepted the labors done for that in the backstory. To become Solar you need only 2 things:
-Be luckiest fool in the moment.
-Do something suicidal that might be impressive if successful.

*reads his own words again*

Och dear.

[SaurOps]

This is a bit off topic (And by a bit, I mean totally) from the current discourse, but one of my friends recently started playing a Jadeborn and I, being the more experienced Exalted player, was presented with some questions. I, not knowing a darn thing about the Jadeborn, couldn't answer them so I'm bringing them here, if anyone would be so kind as to fill me in:

1) Can Jadeborn learn Terrestrial Martial arts? I assumed they couldn't learn Celestial, but I don't know if someone in their Great Geas or weird... Charm... Thing setup they lot the ability to learn Terrestrials too (I know they can't learn Sorcery).

Not without making contact with the people of Autochthonia and getting them to install a Perfected Lotus Matrix in you. Assuming that you are Enlightened and have an Essence of 5 or higher, you can learn Alchemical Charms as if an Eclipse.

[Endless Query]

Okay, thanks for the help with that, all! Though, if I might ask, where is it recorded that they can learn Alchemical charms? Again, most of this is for a friend so being able to direct them to rules passages would be great.

[SaurOps]

Okay, thanks for the help with that, all! Though, if I might ask, where is it recorded that they can learn Alchemical charms? Again, most of this is for a friend so being able to direct them to rules passages would be great.

The text box titled "Mecha-Eclipse" from the beginning of the Charms chapter in MoEP: Alchemicals.

[Cracklord]

I know this is off topic, but I was wondering, does anyone remember what pulp character the Scarlet Empress was inspired by?

[Vknight]

Because both the Solars involved in that are kinda *******s? One of them brutally murders a man who just had to slay his love for duty, because he was enchanted by a momentary glimpse of said love's beauty. Crushes his head as the guy tries to flee for his life.

And the other slaughters a pair of Dragon-Blooded while basically radiating contemptuous arrogance.

The Dragon-Blooded, by contrast, all have entirely understandable and sympathetic motives. Protecting a friend, avenging their murdered families, and/or trying to save their badly-injured fiancée.

Not sure if it was deliberate...

So...
I see beautiful woman and then see her tell this guy too step down or back away etc.
He doesn't than almost kills said woman, because of duty. Said duty is more important than the woman you love?

Said Solar calls him on this. And the guy further digs his grave by insulting the Solar saying he loved that woman.... then why did you almost kill her? Why didn't you use a Cestus or something and knock her out? This guy wanted an excuse too murder his fiancee and got caught in the act.

Then after this happens the Solar is trying too save the woman and gets assaulted and defends himself.
Why was he attacked?
1: I hate Anathema more then other people because 1 killed someone I care for...
2: Oh hey if I kill this guy I can probably force that girls hand in marriage
3: Helping a friend

When the Solar steps in she tells the Dragon-Blooded too stand down. Sure she is arrogant and rude, but lets be honest she is pretty strong so has some reason for that arrogance.
This Solar is protecting a fellow Solar and gives fair warning she will kill her opponents. They attack her and suffer for that action.

All in all.

1; Horrible monster who looked for an excuse too kill someone he 'cared' about
2; Thief who tried to get said monster too walk away
3; Theif's Sister who comes too her aid
4; Solar who is enraptured by the Thief and saves her life
5; Angry woman who hates Anathema
6; Guy whose looking for an excuse too twist the Anathema Hating Womans hand into a marriage for power
7; Said guys friend
8; Arrogant jerk of a woman who knows she will win a fight and gives fair warning of this fact

[Morty]

The way I see it, everyone in that scenario acts like a belligerent idiot, because the purpose of it is to showcase the combat system. I wouldn't read too much into it.

[Gensh]

I know this is off topic, but I was wondering, does anyone remember what pulp character the Scarlet Empress was inspired by?

I've not heard of anything in particular, but she's similar enough to the Lady of Pain that my arbitrary metacanon lists them as siblings. It also insists that Ligier invented the microwave so that Solars would stop summoning him for arbitrary meals, so it's not the best source of ideas.

[Guancyto]

It also insists that Ligier invented the microwave so that Solars would stop summoning him for arbitrary meals, so it's not the best source of ideas.

I dunno, that sounds legit both for SOLAR HUBRIS and Ligier pursuing solutions that involve making things.

I mean, having the dish be HOTTER THAN THE SUN while the food inside somehow stays cold is even one of those flaws Ligier has to include in his creations.

It's perfect!

[Vknight]

The way I see it, everyone in that scenario acts like a belligerent idiot, because the purpose of it is to showcase the combat system. I wouldn't read too much into it.

This is true but at the same time... I find the mortal hero an otherly contemptible person

[Guancyto]

I'm pretty sure that "person has to decide between love or duty" is one of those eternal dilemmas that will be written about until somewhere around the end of time (or at least while the concepts of "love" and "duty" are still around), and is generally portrayed as sympathetic or at least tragic.

The characterization and background are a bit thin (extremely thin, really) because it's a little ditty used to showcase the combat system, but it's really odd that you'd think that someone who chooses "duty" in that equation is some kind of horrible monster.

In 'murica (which is the only culture I know well enough to make blanket statements on) most would probably think of it as choosing incorrectly, but that's not even slightly the same thing as choosing evil.

[Endless Query]

That is extra true if you consider the fact that Temperance, one of the great virtues of the setting, would advocate putting duty above your personal desires, the death of a thief could easily be considered just, and forgoing your personal attachments to carry out that justice is something that could actually be obligated by higher Virtue scores, especially for Exalts and the like.

[Ifni]

Remember, just because it's a Virtue doesn't mean following it is the moral thing to do. Exalted Virtue compulsions are not intended to lay out a universal system of ethics. (I love my Eclipse but just writing "Conviction 5" on her character sheet immediately provides me with a number of tragic flaws as well as strengths, not even considering the Great Curse. Incredible stubbornness + a willingness to do whatever it takes is a Virtue, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.)

But yeah, I agree with Guancyto on the broader principle.

In news from my Exalted game, which I mentioned (and asked for advice) a while back, my Eclipse survived her meeting with Chejop Kejak! There was no tea, and only a little bit of UMI. I think the main lesson she learned was not to bring her Fire Aspect husband to meetings with Chejop Kejak. (It turns out he's pretty protective of her, and has the usual Fire Aspect temper, so I've now seen an E4 Terrestrial call Chejop Kejak a sanctimonious bastard to his face. This had consequences. Stupid Sidereal Socialize Charms...)

More in spoiler in case anyone's interested:

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Her attempt to convince Chejop to change the Bronze Faction's general strategy was not well received, although she managed to completely horrify her Lunar friend in the course of pitching her alternative. (Chejop did actually read the whole proposal, so she's optimistically hoping she at least got him to think.) He told her she reminded him of the ancient Lawgivers, which I'm pretty sure is not a compliment.

Still, she's pretty happy with the deal she sanctified - she secured protection for her (Immaculate monk) sister, a promise that Chejop would support the liberation of Thorns to the best of his ability, and a pledge not to interfere with the Gold-supported attempts to save the East from the Deathlords. All she had to do in exchange was swear to report to her friendly local Bronze Chosen of Endings for execution once the Mask of Winters is defeated. (For most people this would be a fairly large dealbreaker, but the Eclipse in question has a bit of a martyrdom complex.)

Her husband really doesn't like this deal, but acceded to it grudgingly. I suspect the (PC) Chosen of Endings in question is going to like it even less, as she's actually quite fond of the Solar, but also very personally loyal to Chejop. So there will be drama

[Vknight]

Ifni is right the virtue system is not a morals system but more of a personal code/process for each character.

That is extra true if you consider the fact that Temperance, one of the great virtues of the setting, would advocate putting duty above your personal desires, the death of a thief could easily be considered just, and forgoing your personal attachments to carry out that justice is something that could actually be obligated by higher Virtue scores, especially for Exalts and the like.

Temperance is the absence of passion and the use of self restraint.
...Flurry attack, letting his belief of betrayal cloud his judgement

Valor is great danger etc.
She is no warrior this is cowardly to strike a lesser opponent

Compassion.... person you love...

My point being that he's doing things that I'd make him pay Willpower or something too do as their is a conflict their.

@Guancyto
Love or Duty
It becomes a debate when it is one or many. The needs of the few and other such statements. As any great debate it will always be a case by case basis that people want a definitive answer for.
When it's, let love of my life take a cheap old dress... or kill him/her brutally.... And you choose the later, your priorities took a wrong turn somewhere. It's no great tragedy too kill brutally cut someone down who cannot hope too challenge you, it is simply a beating that someone is trying to force deeper meaning upon

-----

In other news/off that topic

My group as planned a while back were going too do Super-Hero's or Exalted. Well as one person is going to be busy we decided too slide over too the other game in this case that is Exalted.

So everyone wanted too of course make their own characters.
This went well... strangely enough.
Now the problem comes from the fact, they followed 2 of my instructions for making characters.

1: No Infernals or Alchemicals; though I love both you guys cannot start out as one
2: Abyssals and Lunars. or Solars/Lunars and Dragon-Blooded
For Exalted types don't want too flood you guys with too many options in you first time. So only two types of Exalted(We will call this half done)
3: Make characters with modifications per the errata, and 1 free Ox-Body per point of Essence and 3 Excellency's
4; No taking Cult, Followers, etc. for a veritable army too start out with for anyone
5; If you guys choose Abyssals no loyaltists. Dragon-Blooded have too be either Outcaste or Realm.

I got

1 Abyssal Daybreak; Loyaltist with a Cult...........
1 Abyssal Dusk; effectively the one from the book but not loyal
1 Abyssal Day; Loyalist, only picked it because he liked the name... otherwise he would have picked Solar, also stat wise more like a Dawn Caste.
1 Earth Dragon-blooded; Is from the Realm and otherwise ok
1 Lunar; Same as Dragon-Blooded

Backgrounds in brief
The Daybreak is a cult leader who was really pretty and charming but no foresight so when his Cult caught on he wasn't actually Anathema they turned...
The Dusk is a warrior who tried to best a Dragon-Blooded and got thrown out afterwards
The Day tried to assassinate the local city leader(Said Dragon-Blooded from Dusk background)
Dragon-Blooded sent too guard some other people who are related too powerful Dragon-Blooded in a discussion of marriage
Lunar; Solar Bond/The sent of death holds strong for some unknown reason

[Guancyto]

Well, this is just me making assumptions, but by the sequence of events (Wood-Aspect saves her, Invincible Sword Princess saves their bacon) there's a pretty good chance the "thief" was a spy (possibly unwittingly so) for the unstoppable demon-monster aiming to conquer his country and possibly kill and/or brainwash everyone.

In such a situation, love or duty is a little more poignant.

...I note the Eclipse-bound oath only says to "report" for execution.

[Vknight]

Well, this is just me making assumptions, but by the sequence of events (Wood-Aspect saves her, Invincible Sword Princess saves their bacon) there's a pretty good chance the "thief" was a spy (possibly unwittingly so) for the unstoppable demon-monster aiming to conquer his country and possibly kill and/or brainwash everyone.

In such a situation, love or duty is a little more poignant.

...I note the Eclipse-bound oath only says to "report" for execution.

And that the mortal would not be aware of this so using that knowledge too justify your actions later would be greater bull.

Anyways suggestions for a quirky squad of Abyssal's hunting the deserters etc.

[Recaiden]

Anyways suggestions for a quirky squad of Abyssal's hunting the deserters etc.

Full sentences.

Seriously, mess with expectations a bit, but make them believable loyalists. you probably don't want anyone too similar to the party.

There should be some horrifying ones and some normal ones. Permanent Taint charms make a character creepy really fast.
A character who's very much simply a black solar, wielding Orichalcum weapons, using Unconquered Hero's Faith to use Solar charms, and being vaguely uncomfortable with their abyssal allies, but very loyal to their Deathlord.
A circle of necromantically aspected Dragonblooded.
A very young Exalt who is actually a really nice kid except for his 5 dots of Whispers.
A member of the Dragonblooded's family/servants/retinue/innocent bystander who was 'killed' in the assassination and wants revenge.
Someone who uses the charm that kills people with performance + the musical martial art style.

[Maugan Ra]

With regards to the little morality debate, because I find such things interesting...

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- Jamal is a sworn servant of the Tri-Khan. He will not betray that oath. Suspecting that Frost Peony, a woman he was once engaged to, is about to break into the Tri-Khan's palace and steal some of his most important possessions, he warns her not to try it, and then waits in the sanctuary just in case she doesn't heed his warning.

She does not, and when he stands between her and her prize, she attempts to kill him. He fights back, and slays her in turn. So, self defense in the course of his duty, after already exploring other options. Nothing contemptible there. Indeed, from my perspective, the story shows him to be an honourable and loyal man caught in an unfortunate situation.

- Mukhtar, the first Dawn caste, is by contrast an arrogant fool. He knows nothing about Frost Peony other than the fact that she is beautiful - he doesn't even know her name. Still, he follows her into the Tri-Khan's palace, and discovers that she has been badly injured by the guard on duty... who is evidently rather regretful about having to do it, but she is a thief. The guard gives him a chance to back down and leave, which is already surprisingly reasonable and lenient on account of how he's trespassing on the Tri-Khan's personal property. Mukhtar ignores this chance, and essentially beats the guard to death with his bare hands for daring to get in the way of his own romantic visions. Crushes his skull even as the poor dude is trying to flee. Nothing heroic or virtuous here.

- Venomous Rose, Outcaste Wood Aspect, has a decent chance of being judged a good person here. Her whole motivation is to save Peony's life. Now granted, Peony is a thief caught trespassing in the local ruler's personal chambers, and thus is under sentence of death. This requires Rose to fight and slay a number of incoming guards, but at the end of the day, she remains reasonably merciful and restrained, and fights for understandable and sympathetic motives.

- Cathak Ironheart has every reason to believe everything she's ever heard about the Anathaema. After all, one of them killed her father and brothers. So it is entirely reasonable that when she sees one standing on the balcony of the local ruler's palace, fists stained with blood, she immediately attacks. Mukhtar certainly doesn't give her any reasons to not get involved, or to justify himself to her.

- Peleps Crashing Wave wants Ironheart's hand in marriage. So when he sees a demon standing over her battered form, he rides to the rescue. True, there's no real love there... but there is honour, duty and courage.

- Ledaal Feizi, of all the Dragon-Blooded, has the coldest and most calculating reason for getting involved here. He has the ulterior motive. And that motive is... saving the life of a fellow Dynast so her family will work with his to oppose the Deathlords? Yeah, he's a good guy. About the only way he could be an evil guy in this scenario would be if he somehow staged the danger to Ironheart's life, but he didn't.

- Invincible Sword Princess, our final participant, is apparently an utterly self-possessed warrior on a crusade against the Dragon-Blooded ('yesterday I shattered the Jade vultures of the Lap, today I break the jade dogs of the Tri-Khan'.) She is arrogant, incredibly condescending to both Terrestrials and mortals, and fights to kill despite the fact that very few of her opponents can seriously challenge her and that delivering Bashing damage is only worth a -1 external penalty on her rolls.

Cathak Ironheart dies first, because she recognises ISP as the demon that murdered her family and immediately tries to take revenge, despite her wounds and the fact that she is basically out of essence. ISP recognises her opponent, has to know that she is no real match, and outright cuts her down.

Crashing Wave is slain next, for the crime of... being in the way, though when the Solar arrived all she would have seen him doing was riding away with his injured companion on his steed. No mercy, no quarter, and no excuse.

Feizi, having seen two of his fellow Dynasts murdered by someone who is obviously much stronger than he is, none the less tries to stop her rather than flee. It's a good attempt, but fails to work, and he is promptly slain in a display of ridiculous overkill by the Solar.

So, in summary... yeah, I still stand by my earlier point. The dragon-blooded in this one are all heroes, or at the very least have noble and understandable motives. The two Solars are both arrogant and remorseless murderers.

Anyway, yes, I'm the one who plays the Fire Aspect that Ifni mentioned, and that was a very fun scene. I probably shouldn't have called Chejop a sanctimonious bastard, but I really feel it was justified, if not particularly wise. And I doubt that our fellow Chosen of Endings PC will much appreciate the fact that the combat-focused Terrestrial will be watching her very closely when and if the time comes for 'judgement' to be passed on his oath-bound wife

[Vknight]

Full sentences.

Seriously, mess with expectations a bit, but make them believable loyalists. you probably don't want anyone too similar to the party.

There should be some horrifying ones and some normal ones. Permanent Taint charms make a character creepy really fast.
A character who's very much simply a black solar, wielding Orichalcum weapons, using Unconquered Hero's Faith to use Solar charms, and being vaguely uncomfortable with their abyssal allies, but very loyal to their Deathlord.
A circle of necromantically aspected Dragonblooded.
A very young Exalt who is actually a really nice kid except for his 5 dots of Whispers.
A member of the Dragonblooded's family/servants/retinue/innocent bystander who was 'killed' in the assassination and wants revenge.
Someone who uses the charm that kills people with performance + the musical martial art style.

Necromantic Dragonblooded...? Pardon?
Also note too self find Unconquered Hero's Faith(Abyssal Book probably + page) then develop evil ideas
He wasn't very subtle.... Which explains the Stealth 3 and Melee & Archery 5. Point being the general thing is he killed at least 3 normal guards, a chef, a concubine of some sort, an elite guard(Heroic Mortal), and finally the Gardner.
Also his Deathlord is; The Bodhisattva Anointed by Dark Water

@Maugan Ra; I agree the Solars are definitely not beacons of any sort. My thing is that the mortal let his duty compromise himself as a person, and the pattern spiders in my head decreed he would die and suffer so I obliged