So in an alternate world....

[PsychoticPanda]

Who do you guys think would win if Hinjo and Tarquin fought? For that matter, what do you think would happen if their respective armies clashed? I personally think that Hinjo would defeat Tarquin, but Tarquins army would have the upper hand (Assuming the armies clashed on neutral terrain.)

[jogiff]

Tarquin would win one-on-one and his army would probably win in a battle on an open field. Tarqin is almost certainly a much higher level, his army is constantly at war and experienced, and he has better magic items I'm sure.

[Kish]

If you mean in a plotless world where everything was decided by pure mechanics, Tarquin would smash Hinjo both solo and with his army. Not even close.

In the actual OotS world, presumably, in the situation you describe, Hinjo would be the hero, so he would win. Somehow. After much adversity, not unlike in the story of Roy Greenhilt taking on the lich Xykon.

[dps]

Tarquin would win one-on-one and his army would probably win in a battle on an open field. Tarqin is almost certainly a much higher level, his army is constantly at war and experienced, and he has better magic items I'm sure.

I tend to agree. The only thing we don't know is the relative size of the armies, but I'd guess that Tarquin's is larger as well. In the IMO relatively unlikely event that Hinjo has a bigger army by a wide margin, that might swing the balance.

Keep in mind that before the fall of Azure City, Hinjo wasn't the highest level Paladin they had. He became the leader by inheriting the role from his uncle Shojo, not by being the highest level Paladin.

[kxm]

I love Hinjo as a character, but he doesn't really stand a chance in a one-on-one fight with Tarquin.


Not sure about if their armies clashed. Tarquin's seems to be a lot more experienced than the Azure City army, but if you include the Sapphire Guard into AC forces, that changes things.

[Vinsfeld]

If your alternate world gave Hinjo's army some kind of boost... Yeah, he could have a chance.

I mean, Tarquin has dinosaurs and thousands of soldiers. Tarquin has an empire and the huge pile of gold involved. While Hinjo has no nation, no army and probably no gold. So.... Yeah, I think Tarquin's army would obliterate what is left of Azure City's army.

[Diadem]

Tarquin's very high level, somewhere between 17 and low epic. Hinjo was below the OOTS when they first met, and hasn't gained levels since, so he's probably 12ish. Plus Tarquin is insanely rich, and not shy in using his wealth to buy good equipment.

In a plot-less battle Tarquin would quite clearly curbstomp Hinjo.

[Lombard]

Hinjo vs. Tarquin? C'mon man...

Now O'Chul vs. Tarquin, that's worth a pay per view

[Muenster Man]

Hinjo vs. Tarquin? C'mon man...

Now O'Chul vs. Tarquin, that's worth a pay per view

Tarquin: "It's weird, no matter how many times I stab him, the guy still thinks he has a chance"

[Bird]

If we include Tarquin's high-level spellcaster friend, that'd make a huge difference in an admittedly already one-sided contest.

Spellcasters win fights. Spellcasters win battles.

I'm sure Hinjo would love to use his high priest, but that guy shuffled off the mortal coil on a misread die roll.

Tarquin's seems to be a lot more experienced than the Azure City army, but if you include the Sapphire Guard into AC forces, that changes things.

You mean O-Chul, Lien, and all those dead people?

I suppose to make it as sporting as possible, we should be talking about Hinjo's army pre-Battle of Azure City. Still don't think it'd be enough, though, for reasons others have mentioned.

[Imgran]

Tarquin: "It's weird, no matter how many times I stab him, the guy still thinks he has a chance"

The guy took on Redcloak in his underwear and won. Give him actual weapons and armor, and he's probably the only one in that world who could go toe to toe with Tarquin. I dunno if he'd win, but he's the only one I'd put money on.

[Conte_Vincero]

The guy took on Redcloak in his underwear and won. Give him actual weapons and armor, and he's probably the only one in that world who could go toe to toe with Tarquin. I dunno if he'd win, but he's the only one I'd put money on.

I had a teacher who once took on a burglar in his underwear and won. He hit him with a 2 by 4 and then sat on the burglar until the police arrived. The Teacher was quite fat (except it wasn't fat, he could bench press the entire weight locker) , so we're not sure if the burglar has got over the trauma yet.

[rs2excelsior]

In terms of the army battle...

We really haven't seen the Empire of Blood's army in action. We have seen Azure City's, though. The pre-siege army of Azure City consisted of over 10,000 footsoldiers and an unspecified (though much smaller) number of paladins. However, we know most of those footsoldiers are quite inexperienced and undisciplined. The paladins seem to be their elite strike force and serve as their cavalry (the only Azure City character we've seen mounted was Miko on windstriker, and the paladins' role as the rough equivalent of samurai would support the idea that they at least can be employed as horsemen). These paladin's don't seem to have an equivalent in Tarquin's army, so that gives Hinjo an edge. On the other hand, most of the footsoldiers are, as I said, inexperienced, and mostly under the control of fickle nobles. Hinjo could only muster 10,000 of them for the defense of the city itself. It's almost certain he couldn't convince as many nobles to lend their forces for a field battle far from home.

We have no idea how large the Empire of Blood's army is, so we can't make assessments regarding the odds Hinjo would face. We have, however, seen that they are, for the most part, disciplined and professional. The columns of Tarquin's army seen in 910 speak to that. In addition, we know that Tarquin has cavalry mounted on Raptors and Allosauruses, and aerial troops on Pteranodons and Hippogriffs. Furthermore, while the Azure City paladins fought independently of the infantry, Tarquin's force shows combined arms techniques. His infantry columns march through, with the clearly visible Triceratops in the lead, and screening cavalry and aerial forces come through alongside the infantry. The Pteranodons ascend to keep a lookout for the enemy, and the cavalry stations itself along the flanks to swiftly respond to threats.

So where does this leave us? It depends on the terrain. If we're in the area around Azure City, in the South, the terrain seems to be rather mountainous. I imagine Hinjo could find a place where his paladins had secure flanks and Tarquin's dinosaur cavalry had poor ground. There the inexperienced Azurite soldiers could back up the more experienced paladins, and it would turn into a slogging match that really depended on numbers. Tarquin's Allosauruses could slam into the paladins, which would be the only way to break them without horrific casualties, but if any force in the OOTS world could stand against them, I'd bet on it being the Sapphire Guard.

If the battle were taking place on the Western Continent, in the desert, things are considerably different. Tarquin's more cavalry-heavy force has an advantage here, both in numbers and because the dinosaurs quite probably handle the sandy terrain better than Azurite horses. The paladins seem to commit as a single force rather than piecemeal (though admittedly we've only seen them in battle once), so it's not hard to imagine that Tarquin could pin the majority of the paladins in place, put pressure on the Azurite footsoldiers with his more disciplined infantry, send his swift Raptor cavalry around a flank, and use his Allosauruses to smash holes in the Azurite lines. Once the footsoldiers break and run, the paladins can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers (or at least will have to fight their way off the field), and the Raptors and Pteranodons can wreak havoc on the fleeing conscripts.

The OP specified "neutral" terrain, which to me indicates an open, nondescript field. In that case, see the above analysis, minus the part about sand giving Tarquin's cavalry even more of an advantage.

In D&D, I'm not sure who would win, because I don't know the system. In real life, though, I give it to Tarquin hands-down.

tl;dr: Tarquin's army is a whole lot more disciplined and diversified, so unless Hinjo was fighting on his home turf (and even that's iffy), Tarquin's got it.

[angry_bear]

Gonna list what they definitely had prior to interacting with the OotS, and after.

Tarquin has Malack a powerful vampire cleric, an aerial force, a dinosaur cavalry, and at least one high level spellcaster to teleport his forces around.

Hinjo (Before Xykon's invasion) has a large group of paladins, decently leveled Cleric, and an admittedly decently leveled, but alcoholic wizard.

If we look at them in their current situations in the comic, Hinjo no longer has the wizard (The Order probably would have gotten a ride from him, rather than taking a boat), a high leveled cleric, or a large group of paladins. Tarquin still has everything except for Malack. Either way my money is on Tarquin.

[137beth]

Hinjo had trouble fighting just fallen-Miko. He's definitely a weaker fighter than Roy. Roy had trouble fighting Tarquin. I'd say Tarquin wins one-on-one.

With armies: there isn't enough information to get a reasonable estimate.

[Amphiox]

Hinjo's forces might be able to summon Celestial mounts to counter the dinosaurs.

However, are paladins in stickverse bound by the requirement to never retreat from battle?

Because if so, they are doomed. Against a savvy general like Tarquin likely is, any force that refuses to engage in tactical retreat is ripe for the plucking by feigned retreat style tactics.

(This is all assuming we are talking about the Azurites before the fall of the city. Right now, Hinjo frankly has very little in the way of reliable military forces. He lost the bulk of his army and most of his paladins in that battle. Much of the Azurite's manpower is probably being provided now by the various noble houses, and their loyalty is most decidedly not assured. The rest are probably raw recruits with only the bare minimum of basic training that could be done from the deck of a ship.)

[Tock Zipporah]

If you mean in a plotless world where everything was decided by pure mechanics, Tarquin would smash Hinjo both solo and with his army. Not even close.

In the actual OotS world, presumably, in the situation you describe, Hinjo would be the hero, so he would win. Somehow. After much adversity, not unlike in the story of Roy Greenhilt taking on the lich Xykon.

On the contrary, Hinjo isn't the hero. He's the behind-the-scenes leader who isn't supposed to take the spotlight and win the day. If Hinjo and Tarquin ever fought, the most likely end would be Tarquin killing Hinjo so that Tarquin is seen as a dangerous enemy who needs to be taken down by the main party. The OotS would then avenge Hinjo's death when they take Tarquin down.

It would be a fitting plot point... note that Tarquin hasn't really had any "big evil victories" to this point. We know he's evil: he runs the Empire of Blood, he murdered a bunch of slaves and set them on fire, etc. But what big villainous accomplishments has he made? None, really. He hasn't killed anyone personally yet (at all; he's only ordered others to kill, but never taken a life with his own hands on screen). He hasn't done anything to earn the OotS's hatred in a more personal way. Killing someone they care about would be a fitting way to amp up his villainy to 11.

[137beth]

On the contrary, Hinjo isn't the hero. He's the behind-the-scenes leader who isn't supposed to take the spotlight and win the day. If Hinjo and Tarquin ever fought, the most likely end would be Tarquin killing Hinjo so that Tarquin is seen as a dangerous enemy who needs to be taken down by the main party. The OotS would then avenge Hinjo's death when they take Tarquin down.

It would be a fitting plot point... note that Tarquin hasn't really had any "big evil victories" to this point. We know he's evil: he runs the Empire of Blood, he murdered a bunch of slaves and set them on fire, etc. But what big villainous accomplishments has he made? None, really. He hasn't killed anyone personally yet (at all; he's only ordered others to kill, but never taken a life with his own hands on screen). He hasn't done anything to earn the OotS's hatred in a more personal way. Killing someone they care about would be a fitting way to amp up his villainy to 11.

That's a very good point--you have made it clear that Hinjo and Tarquin are, in fact, the same person! How else would Tarquin have known that the order were looking for the gates? Plus, has anyone seem them together?

[Tock Zipporah]

That's a very good point--you have made it clear that Hinjo and Tarquin are, in fact, the same person! How else would Tarquin have known that the order were looking for the gates? Plus, has anyone seem them together?

Hmm, now that you mention it, they HAVEN'T been seen in the same place at the same time! Tarquin will no doubt be captured, at which point Elan will pull off his rubber mask and reveal that it was Old Man Hinjo who was behind the haunted amusement park!

[David Argall]

I'll join the vast majority here, saying the result is obvious.
Hinjo lost to Miko, who lost to Roy, who couldn't even make Tarquin fight serious despite several helpers. We are talking one rounder.
At Azure City, Hinjo was jumped up captain who didn't know how to be a general. He may have improved since then [tho we have a view of him doing front line fighting, which makes that questionable.] Again, the highly skilled Tarquin wins without breaking a sweat.
In armies too, Azure City seems to be quite peaceful and its troops largely inexperienced, while those of the Empire see considerable action. Not much better for Hinjo.

[gorocz]

Hmm, now that you mention it, they HAVEN'T been seen in the same place at the same time! Tarquin will no doubt be captured, at which point Elan will pull off his rubber mask and reveal that it was Old Man Hinjo who was behind the haunted amusement park!

Oh dear god ... Can I sig this?

[Tock Zipporah]

Oh dear god ... Can I sig this?

Feel free ;) It's my pleasure

[The Pilgrim]

Hinjo's Army already lost against a bunch of Hobgoblins. So they don't stand a chance against Tarquin's much larger army.

On the personal level, Tarquin has a lot of levels over Hinjo, and they are both a fighter-class. So, no contest.

[Kung-Fu Tzu]

On the contrary, Hinjo isn't the hero. He's the behind-the-scenes leader who isn't supposed to take the spotlight and win the day. If Hinjo and Tarquin ever fought, the most likely end would be Tarquin killing Hinjo so that Tarquin is seen as a dangerous enemy who needs to be taken down by the main party. The OotS would then avenge Hinjo's death when they take Tarquin down.

Someone as genre-savvy as Tarquin would never make a mistake like that. I mean, he doesn't become the actual ruler of the Empire of Blood (though he is in all but name) for the express purpose of not being the target of someone looking to dethrone the dictator. Slaughtering the close friend of a group of adventurers is a clear death sentence in any story, which Tarquin realizes he is in.

[Jay R]

If the armies of the Empire of Blood faced the remaining armies of the old Azure City, it would look hopeless for Hinjo's people for awhile, but he'd get a new ally who would kill the Empress and allow Hinjo to take over. The new Azure Empire would then be ruled by Hinjo, with the help of his new warlord Tarquin.

[Tragak]

If the armies of the Empire of Blood faced the remaining armies of the old Azure City, it would look hopeless for Hinjo's people for awhile, but he'd get a new ally who would kill the Empress and allow Hinjo to take over. The new Azure Empire would then be ruled by Hinjo, with the help of his new warlord Tarquin.

Of course

[Tock Zipporah]

Someone as genre-savvy as Tarquin would never make a mistake like that. I mean, he doesn't become the actual ruler of the Empire of Blood (though he is in all but name) for the express purpose of not being the target of someone looking to dethrone the dictator. Slaughtering the close friend of a group of adventurers is a clear death sentence in any story, which Tarquin realizes he is in.

On the contrary, I think Tarquin's speech here would indicate this is exactly the sort of thing he would do. He still expects to be defeated one day, and he doesn't care if the last ten minutes suck. In fact, being the super cool villain who defeated the leader of an army of paladins would just make his epic tale even more legendary.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

How about a fight between Tarquins army and Xykons army? Who would win that fight?

[Synesthesy]

Roy's dad said that Roy was the highest good person in the Azure City Battle, so Hinjo must be at lower level. Tarquin seems to be at higher level then Roy. I think that a duel between Hinjo and Tarquin would end with victory for the last. Tarquin is smarter and has more experience too.

And for a battle between the armies.... We know that an hopgoblin army lead by an high cleric was enough to defeat Azure City. I don't think Tarquin's army weaker then Redcloak... And there would be more high level figher, maybe even more spellcaster.

And, last but not least, the villain is always cooler then a paladin.

Tarquin wins.

[The Pilgrim]

If the armies of the Empire of Blood faced the remaining armies of the old Azure City, it would look hopeless for Hinjo's people for awhile, but he'd get a new ally who would kill the Empress and allow Hinjo to take over. The new Azure Empire would then be ruled by Hinjo, with the help of his new warlord Tarquin.

You won the thread.