"Triple" Gestalt

[Sims]

There is overpowered, and then there is just plain stupid. I heard this group talking about it at lunch today, and decided, to see what would be your guys take on it?

Even at level 5, a Wizard/Fighter/Rogue is a one man army.

[Tyndmyr]

I'd try it, but more out of curiosity than anything else.

It seems a bit too complex of character builds for most purposes.

[Chess435]

I was thinking about starting a game involving this:

Starting with blatantly overpowered 20th level triple gestalt characters.

Optimize said characters to make them even more ridiculous

Give them 10x WBL in starting equipment.

Destroy the world and then proceed to get even more beyond the impossible from there.



Would anyone be interested in playing or DM'ing such a game?

[Mordokai]

Playing, yes.

DMing, hellz no.

[Tyndmyr]

Playing, yes.

DMing, hellz no.

This.

Be aware that my character would be a god among casters, especially if you allowed PrCing on both sides. I figure at least six 9s. Some may call this broken. I call it a good start.

[Chess435]

DMing, hellz no.

I didn't think so.....

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

3-man Party

Wizard // Factotum // Warblade
Archivist // Factotum // Warblade
Spell-to-Power Erudite // Factotum // Warblade

Arcane powers? Check. Divine powers? Check. Psionics? Check. Skills? In spades. Combat ability? Incredible. Breaks the action economy? Check. Single-ability dependent? Almost entirely.

Game over.

[Miscast_Mage]

In terms of PO, it'd be difficult to find a mix of classes that has both synergy and preferably one active side to two passive sides(it doesn't matter how sides gestalt has, you've still gotta obey the action economy unless you have some factotum in there). A decent build off the top of my head would be: Wizard//factotum//barbarian. Wizard, for obvious reasons, factotum to break the action economy, and barbarian for the high hit dice, fort save and random class goodies.

Edit: Curse you, you delicious ninja beverage, you!

[Chess435]

Be aware that my character would be a god among casters, especially if you allowed PrCing on both sides. I figure at least six 9s. Some may call this broken. I call it a good start.

Exactly what I was thinking. Just imagine what you could do simply by abusing dual-progression PrC's!


Edit: Ha! My first time swordsaging someone!

[Sims]

Hahaha! Prestige Classes XD Mystic Theurge anyone? The characters would be godly at level 10.

[Illven]

Playing, yes.

DMing, hellz no.

This.

Be aware that my character would be a god among casters, especially if you allowed PrCing on both sides. I figure at least six 9s. Some may call this broken. I call it a good start.

QFT few people would dm this headache.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, in normal gestalt, I can wring some pretty epic casting out. Figure, three at level 9s or higher, and a fourth quite close.

If it's gestalt with PrCs on both sides, looking at more like five nines.

So, with triple gestalt, Factotum is the logical thing to add. The big flaw is I actually start running short on accelerated casting classes and dual casting classes to take. I'll have to resort to tricks like legacy champion to continue to advance 10 level theurge classes.

Yeah, it'd be pretty horrific to DM.

[Jair Barik]

Isn't there a rule in gestalt that dual progress PrC's aren't allowed? Or is that rule generally just ignored.

[Tyndmyr]

Isn't there a rule in gestalt that dual progress PrC's aren't allowed? Or is that rule generally just ignored.

It's a reccomendation.

Oddly enough, it's not even a terribly good one. See, theurge classes give you tons of options, but the really, really lethal gestalt builds are not those that give you lots of options...they're the ones that use synergy to make you amazing with the options you do have.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Isn't there a rule in gestalt that dual progress PrC's aren't allowed? Or is that rule generally just ignored.

That rule is, as far as I'm aware, usually in use for Gestalt games.

[FMArthur]

I can think of a great triple gestalt right now...

Mystic Wildshape Trapfinding SotAO Ranger / ??? / ???

Oh wait.

[John Cribati]

Three words: Barbarian|Wizard|Rogue.

[Asheram]

Wouldn't it be easier to do an ordinary gestalt with the Lightning Warrior?

[dragonsamurai77]

Wouldn't it be easier to do an ordinary gestalt with the Lightning Warrior?

Everyone knows that's a trap. I mean, it doesn't even get a familiar!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Three words: Barbarian|Wizard|Rogue.

The Wizard // Factotum // Warblade I suggested earlier would beat the pants off the Barbarian // Wizard // Rogue.

[Jair Barik]

The Wizard // Factotum // Warblade I suggested earlier would beat the pants off the Barbarian // Wizard // Rogue.

Oh come now! How many barbarians do you know who actually wear any in the first place?

[Hazzardevil]

The first idea off my head was this monstrousity:
Nardemonbinder/Sorcerer/UM//Factorum 1/DFA/Shadow template//Bard 1/Druid 9/Sublime chord 1/Fochulan lyrist 9.

That is the following:
8th level spell from sorc,
8th level spells from nardemonbinder,
All skills as class skills,
Plenty of SLA's usable as much as you want and an infinite use range weapon,
level 10 sublime chord casting,
9th level druid wildshape,
level 18 druid casting.
and the vest part is that is enough for 4 iterative attacks and you need 3 stats for casting with only 13 in all 3 at least.

[Willfor]

If I were running something like this, I would limit it to tier 3 and below in terms of classes. Still very powerful, but it would provide more interesting (in my opinion) combinations.

[grarrrg]

There is overpowered, and then there is just plain stupid.

Going for "just plain stupid"
(without using NPC classes)

Monk//Soulknife//Truenamer

It will have decent Saves.
That is all.

[Murdim]

As was already pointed out by many others before me, here's the ultimate Marty Stu build : Any Int-based full caster 15 / PrC 5 // Warblade 10 / Eternal Blade 10 // Factotum 20.

You're not just the best gish ever. You are the best caster, the best skill monkey, AND the best meatshield ever. Who cares about being restricted to only one spell list when you also have D12 HP, full BAB, all good saves, all skills, Intelligence to everything, a ridiculous physical damage output, and a dozen different ways to make action economy your bitch.

Also, just for fun (and without the only-one-PrC-at-a-time rule) : Lycanthrope LA 2 / Dire bear 12 / Warshaper 5 / War hulk +1 // Barbarian 6 / Frenzied Berserker 4 / Bear warrior 10 // Chaos monk 5 / War hulk 9 / Frenzied Berserker +6.

This is a were-bear who can get so angry he turns into a bear while he's a bear. Total ability bonus : +44 Str, +2 Dex, +12 Con by simply being a werebear, +74 Str, +2 Dex, +20 Con when things get serious. Total number of attacks per turn : 6 to 9 unarmed strikes (2D6, lethal), plus two claws, plus a bite, plus any morphic weapon you might want. It also has reach, and its strikes hit every enemy at range. It can't be killed. It can't be stunned. It is immune to precision damage. It can heal itself. And it power attacks for twice the normal amount of damage.

Wouldn't it be easier to do an ordinary gestalt with the Lightning Warrior?

Forget that. Lightning Warriors can't even specialise.

[navar100]

Gestalt in itself is not overpowered. It is high powered but only "overly" in the sense of one's personal tolerance level for power.

To Gestalt three classes is overkill but not due to power. You can only do so much in a round. Some class abilities are passive and would help buff-like, but to be a class mostly means doing something with it. Some abilities you might never use. You might be overwhelmed with choices. Everyone in the party is for the most part the same. Everyone can do everything. It becomes boring.

However, I do acknowledge the power aspect. It is possible for there to be some combination of stuff that Wins D&D, makes the game Unplayable, or otherwise result in a "why bother playing".

[John Cribati]

This is a were-bear who can get so angry he turns into a bear while he's a bear.

This may be the greatest sentence ever written.

[RaggedAngel]

Going for "just plain stupid"
(without using NPC classes)

Monk//Soulknife//Truenamer

It will have decent Saves.
That is all.

I currently have Fast Healing 20, +5 to Damage and Hit that stacks with everything, energy resistance to the important ones, DR 5/- and DR 10/Magic and +5 to saves, Spell Resistance 30, Immunity to all poisons and diseases, and Improved Evasion. If I had half a brain when assigning ability scores my AC is around 25, and my weapon is a +5 Wounding Collision Bastard Sword.

If I wake up in a dungeon naked, I can be like this in two rounds.

Don't diss my Monk//Soulknife//Truenamers.

[dspeyer]

barbarian for the high hit dice, fort save and random class goodies.

Warblade gets you the same HD and save, and better goodies (especially for an int-based character).

I keep thinking a druid // master of many forms // swordsage would be more fun. So many possibilities. And 10 unassigned levels for miscellaneous goodies.

[Morph Bark]

3-man Party

Wizard // Factotum // Warblade
Archivist // Factotum // Warblade
Spell-to-Power Erudite // Factotum // Warblade

Arcane powers? Check. Divine powers? Check. Psionics? Check. Skills? In spades. Combat ability? Incredible. Breaks the action economy? Check. Single-ability dependent? Almost entirely.

Game over.

Alternatively:

Artificer // Factotum // Warblade
Cleric // Totemist // Swordsage
Druid // Totemist // Swordsage

Some Swordsage levels may also be swapped for Ardent levels.