Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XII

[warty goblin]

You're still talking about 100+ C metal only a couple of clothing layers from the skin. The padding isn't going to help that much.

I've pulled metal pans out of 500 degree ovens using potholders, without any significant harm, or even discomfort. If anything I'd expect any halfway decent aketon to be thicker than your average cheap-ass food service oven mitt.

Comparison to D&D is going to be tricky - I believe spending a round (10 seconds) in a medium campfire only inflicts 1d6 damage or 2d6 if it's been burning for a couple hours.

1kg of moderately dry wood generates 4kW for an hour and I'd say a decent sized camp fire is about 5kg of wood.
This would give an energy output of 20kW or 200kJ to the idiot standing in the fire, which equates to 2d6 damage.

11 pounds of wood is a fairly substantial sort of conflagration. Standing in it for any length of time would in reality result in very severe, at least temporarily crippling, burns. Even a second degree burn (blisters, but skin not actually burned off) is extremely painful. I once ended up with about three square inches of second degree burn around my left knee; it hurt so much walking was the better part of impossible for about five days. Even standing up getting out of bed in the morning was very uncomfortable.

[Brother Oni]

I've pulled metal pans out of 500 degree ovens using potholders, without any significant harm, or even discomfort. If anything I'd expect any halfway decent aketon to be thicker than your average cheap-ass food service oven mitt.

I assume that's Fahrenheit?

Area of contact is a major component of being able to handle heat: holding a 50C object, no problem; being in 50C weather, much more troublesome.

From my own food service experience, any decent cook or server adapts to be able to hold rather ludicrously hot material with their hands, but you'd better be careful if an unadjusted part of your anatomy comes in contact with the same hot object.

[warty goblin]

I assume that's Fahrenheit?

Fahrenheit indeed. Cooking prime rib at 500 celsius isn't really recommended.

Area of contact is a major component of being able to handle heat: holding a 50C object, no problem; being in 50C weather, much more troublesome.

Back in my food service days, I spent plenty of time in a kitchen that hot - the air conditioning didn't work for crap and the fans weren't up to snuff either. After about two hours the effect is rather like being drunk. We used to go soak our arms under cold water whenever possible, and drink absolute gallons of ice water. That helped, except when somebody poured black pepper into your drink.

From my own food service experience, any decent cook or server adapts to be able to hold rather ludicrously hot material with their hands, but you'd better be careful if an unadjusted part of your anatomy comes in contact with the same hot object.

Indeed. Unfortunately I've mostly lost that. I used to be able to pick things up right off the flat-top with my bare hands, which was quite useful.

One trick I figured out was that I could stop a minor burn hurting all evening, simply by holding the recently singed appendage over the grill or flat-top for about thirty seconds. Lots of pain at the moment, but not hardly a twinge for the rest of the shift. Didn't really work for anything that had raised a blister though.

[Mike_G]

I assume that's Fahrenheit?

Area of contact is a major component of being able to handle heat: holding a 50C object, no problem; being in 50C weather, much more troublesome.

From my own food service experience, any decent cook or server adapts to be able to hold rather ludicrously hot material with their hands, but you'd better be careful if an unadjusted part of your anatomy comes in contact with the same hot object.

500 F is only about 220 C.

100 C isn't that hot, compared to food prep. Potholders protect from far higher temps than that. And a decent gambeson would be much better protection than a potholder.

Modern Firefighting equipment does a decent job, and isn't much heavier. The original Fire helmets (that most departments in New England still use- Centuries of tradition unimpeded by progress) are LEATHER.

Insulation from hot steel isn't exactly rocket science. Thick, padded cloth does a decent job, up until it ignites.

Now, breathing the hot gas from the dragon's breathe will probably kill you long before the fat renders out of your skin. That's the real danger of fantasy fire attacks. Not a toasty breastplate.

[Rhynn]

500 F is only about 220 C.

500ºF is exactly 260ºC. (500-32)/9*5 = 260.

Not that it affects what you're saying at all, but MATH.

[Mike_G]

500ºF is exactly 260ºC. (500-32)/9*5 = 260.

Not that it affects what you're saying at all, but MATH.

Paramedic.

Back of the envelope Imperial to metric guesstimates at 3 AM and 55 mph.

I use "Subtract 30 and cut the number in half."

Except this time, when I reversed the order.

You're right, by the way.

[Brother Oni]

Modern Firefighting equipment does a decent job, and isn't much heavier. The original Fire helmets (that most departments in New England still use- Centuries of tradition unimpeded by progress) are LEATHER.

Except that leather caps aren't much use in combat, which the original scenario was about.

Now, breathing the hot gas from the dragon's breathe will probably kill you long before the fat renders out of your skin. That's the real danger of fantasy fire attacks. Not a toasty breastplate.

Well dragon breath attacks are far more like a flamethrower, which kinda breaks the thermal energy transfer numbers I crunched which are intended for a split second duration spell.
You're also far more likely to die before you get to the 40.4kJ energy required to achieve a fourth degree burns to ~18% of the body (first degree burns to the same area only needs about 3.6kJ if my math is right).

As for protection, helms give a surprising amount assuming you can keep the gaps out of the direct stream - I remember one full contact re-enactor saying that the only safety requirement was that a 1/2" steel rod can't get into any of the eye/air slits.

As an aside, fat melts at about 184C, so you're likely to be dead well before then.

Paramedic.

Back of the envelope Imperial to metric guesstimates at 3 AM and 55 mph.

What are you doing as a paramedic all the way over there, if you don't mind my asking?

[Mike_G]

Any area effect fire damage, like Fireball or dragon breath will be fatal mostly by scorching your airway when you try to breathe the superheated air. The best plate won't help you unless you have an SCBA. Been on ambulance standby at fires. More injuries from airway burns than direct contact burns.

And plate has gaps. exposed hair or cloth may catch fire, eyes will take damage, and so on.

But for something like Scorching Ray, which might hit you in the breastplate, I think the steel would heat up, but would spread that energy over its surface, and a gambeson would be adequate insulation, and unlikely to catch fire from contact with a hot breastplate, since there won't be much oxygen, and it'll probably be damp from sweat. A man wearing just a padded gambeson hit directly by a ray might very well be on fire.

So I think plate plus padding would be decent protection from small area, short duration fire attacks that might very well kill an unarmored man.

Assuming the average fantasy hero can't get ahold of Nomex and an SCBA.

And all the way over where? I work in Boston's northern suburbs.

[AgentPaper]

Any area effect fire damage, like Fireball or dragon breath will be fatal mostly by scorching your airway when you try to breathe the superheated air. The best plate won't help you unless you have an SCBA. Been on ambulance standby at fires. More injuries from airway burns than direct contact burns.

Airway damage might be the most fatal in a house fire, where you're next to an open flame for a long time, but if you're just being scorched by a fireball that lasts, at absolute maximum 6 seconds, you can (and probably will by instinct) simply hold your breath for 6 seconds, then breath again once it's over. So, any damage from a fireball will come from external burns, not from breathing in.

[DodgerH2O]

Airway damage might be the most fatal in a house fire, where you're next to an open flame for a long time, but if you're just being scorched by a fireball that lasts, at absolute maximum 6 seconds, you can (and probably will by instinct) simply hold your breath for 6 seconds, then breath again once it's over. So, any damage from a fireball will come from external burns, not from breathing in.

Assuming that you don't scream from the external burns. Before you scream, you'll reflexively inhale sharply and deeply. Think about it. Sure if you've been fireballed before you might know to hold your breath, but I imagine most would panic having a large blast of flame in their face...

I figure that'd factor in under "Saving Throw" rules in DnD worlds *shrug* Abstraction is a great thing.

[Brother Oni]

And plate has gaps. exposed hair or cloth may catch fire, eyes will take damage, and so on.

Oh I fully agree - that's one of the assumptions I was making since trying to work out how much of a typical knight in plate was actually flammable sounds like too much modelling for me.

Assuming the average fantasy hero can't get ahold of Nomex and an SCBA.

Or a ring/spell of fire resistance/immunity.

That said I believe that using treated hides or leather was popular for fire proofing things in siege situations.

And all the way over where? I work in Boston's northern suburbs.

Sorry, I took your 3am and 55mph comment literally and had you pegged at GMT+7, putting you somewhere around Thailand.

Assuming that you don't scream from the external burns. Before you scream, you'll reflexively inhale sharply and deeply. Think about it. Sure if you've been fireballed before you might know to hold your breath, but I imagine most would panic having a large blast of flame in their face...

I figure that'd factor in under "Saving Throw" rules in DnD worlds *shrug* Abstraction is a great thing.

I would expect anybody living in a magical environment would well be aware of particular signature spells, let alone an experienced fighting man who's probably been on the receiving end a couple times already.

In D&D terms, I think overcoming your natural reflex would probably a Will save, but I believe fireball and other such spells are Reflex saves to represent you getting the hell out of the blast zone.

[Mike_G]

Airway damage might be the most fatal in a house fire, where you're next to an open flame for a long time, but if you're just being scorched by a fireball that lasts, at absolute maximum 6 seconds, you can (and probably will by instinct) simply hold your breath for 6 seconds, then breath again once it's over. So, any damage from a fireball will come from external burns, not from breathing in.

Well, without getting too finicky over details for a spell we can't really imitate for a real test, a fireball, even if it only lasted a second would leave the air in the area superheated. I'm not equipped to figure the rate of heat dissipation for temperatures we'd just be guessing at, but if the fireball is hot enough to ignite clothing, the air immediately status post fireball will be hot enough to blister your airway.

D&D damage is so abstract it's pretty impossible to figure how much heat equals 1D6 damage kind of thing. But there's a very good reason that guys who plan to be close to fire, not even in fire, wear head to toe protection and respirators.

My point was that fire hot enough to burn your flesh through armor and padding will probably bake the inside of your lungs to medium rare. The heat required to transfer that much energy through the layers of padding by conduction through the armor would be waaaaaaaaaaay more than enough to turn the air around that armor into an oven. It needs to be insanely hot for a split second, or very hot for a longer time. Both are pretty bad. Gaps, vents, eye slits, those are the places heat will hurt you.

I think the least of your worries would be a burn through the armor.

[hymer]

Medieval Europe, before the advent of gunpowder weapons. You and your company are tasked with defending city- and castle walls. You already have bows and crossbows covered. What sort of melee weapon(s) would you benefit most from for repelling assault by ladder, ramp and/or siege towers? What sort of weapons would a seasoned commander issue (besides the aforementioned bow and crossbow)?

Sorry if this has already been covered.

[Spiryt]

Medieval Europe, before the advent of effective gunpowder weapons. You and your company are tasked with defending city- and castle walls. You already have bows and crossbows covered. What sort of melee weapon(s) would you benefit most from for repelling assault by ladder, ramp and/or siege towers? What sort of weapons would a seasoned commander issue (besides the aforementioned bow and crossbow)?

Sorry if this has already been covered.

That's really broad, question, but basically, in "Medieval Europe" commander wouldn't 'issue' any weapons, he would have some amount of men who:

- would have their own weapons/armors
- would have all kinds of weapons in city's/guilds arsenal, ready to use

Whether this would be own weapon, or 'semi own' , user would be expected to be at least regularly trained with it.

If commander was forced to arm some more random citizens/peasants from the lack of proper defenders, he would probably concentrate on possibly 'auxiliary' tasks. If they would probably anyway got armed with whatever was in arsenals.

Personal weapons in any case would be most probably 'standard' spears, or numerous other polearms, depending on time and place, with knives/daggers, axes, swords, etc.

Don't think there will be any real 'powder' here, just effective melee weapons. People expected to defend some more tight spaces/rooms would probably have more handy weapons, daggers, swords.

All kinds of heavy stuff one can drop at the attackers if frequently mentioned in sources. So it probably would be very important to have prepared.

Stones, spiked logs, etc. This kind of stuff of course sadly isn't very well represented in actual finds, but we have pictures and descriptions.

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[hymer]

Thanks for the response. I'll rephrase: What melee weapon would serve me best considering

1. Medieval Europe prior to gunpowder,
2. I'll be fighting to defend fortified walls,
3. I already have my preferred ranged weapon,
4. and I expect opponents in metal armour and with training as soldiers.

[Spiryt]

Hmm, I'm not sure if anyone can really say what would be 'preferred' (maybe some manuals?).

I would say - the very same weapons used to fight in 'normal battles'.

Knights and other riders who would normally fight mounted could be forced to improvise, I guess, but shield + sword/axe/whatever would still obviously go.

All kinds of spears, glaives, axes, bills, clubs, pollaxes...

[Brother Oni]

I personally would have said some kind of close melee weapon. I don't think there wouldn't be much space for long weapons (polearms, etc) or things required space to swing (maces) with all the other defenders, let alone the attackers once they get up there.

Ranged issues would be sorted by missile troops or the defenders just throwing stuff (rocks, pitch, bodies, etc) off the walls.

[AgentPaper]

Spears do seem useful for poking at people coming up the wall on ladders and such. Doesn't have to be a long spear either, a short spear is plenty usable in relatively short quarters, and benefits from being easy to use (poke them with the pointy bit) and easy to make. Also great if you happen to be short on iron, or blacksmiths, since you just need the small head, and can even forgoe that and simply sharpen the end and still have a fairly lethal weapon.

If you have the time and resources to give all of your soldiers swords and train them to use them effectively, then sure, give them all swords. But you usually don't have that luxury, so swords and halberds and such are probably going to be limited to whatever small number (compared to the number of people in the city) of professional soldiers you have.

For someone in charge of the defense of the city, you'd basically prioritize it as: Trained warriors use whatever weapons they already own, or if they don't have one at the moment for whatever reason, try to get them a weapon they're already trained with, no matter what it is. Then, for everyone not trained with a weapon, tell them to bring whatever tools they use for their craft that can be used as a weapon, such as axes, pitchforks, bows, or anything else that can be used to kill someone.

Finally, anyone who doesn't have such a tool but is fit and capable of fighting would be given either whatever extra weapons you have available, a hastily-made spear, or if worse comes to worse, a stick that they're told to sharpen as best they can. Anyone not fit to fight, or really just anyone not doing something else right then, would be tasked with carrying heavy stuff up to the top of the walls, digging ditches around the walls, and gathering and storing as much food as possible to last through the inevitable siege.

In the end, it's more a matter of "what can you get" rather than "what do you want". Perhaps in ideal circumstances everyone would have a spiked mace, or a short sword, or a bardiche, or whatever, but you'll never have enough time and resources to prepare that well.

[Galloglaich]

There is some neat stuff in the Kings Mirror, gives you an idea how nasty it could really be. Molten glass (shudder)

http://web.archive.org/web/201012291...ingsmirror.htm

Son: Inasmuch as you may seem to think that you have described most of the weapons which are convenient to have in naval warfare or in fighting on horseback, I will now ask you to say something about those which you think are most effective in besieging or defending a castle.

Father: All weapons that we have just discussed as useful on ships or on horseback can also be used in attacking or defending castles; but there are many other kinds. If one is to attack a castle with the weapons which I have enumerated, he will also have a need trebuchets; a few powerful ones with which to throw large rocks against stone walls to determine whether they are able to resist such violent blows, and weaker trebuchets for throwing missiles over the walls to demolish the houses within the castle. But if one is unable to break down or shatter a stone wall with trebuchets, he will have to try another engine, namely the ironheaded ram, for very few stone walls can withstand its attack. If this engine fails to batter down or shake the wall, it may be advisable to set the cat (15) to work. A tower raised on wheels is useful in besieging castles, if it is constructed so that it rises above the wall which is to be stormed, even though the difference in height be only seven ells; but the higher it is, the more effective it will be in attacking another tower. Scaling ladders on wheels which may be moved backward and forwarded are also useful for this purpose, if they are boarded up underneath and have good ropes on both sides. And we may say briefly about this craft, that in besieging castles use will be found for all sorts of military engines. But whomever wishes to join in this must be sure that he knows precisely even to the very hour when he shall have need for each device.

Those who have to defend a castle may also make use of these weapons which I have now enumerated and many more: trebuchets both large and small, hand slings and staff slings. They will find crossbows and other bows, too, very effective, as well as every other type of shooting weapons, such as spears and javelins both light and heavy. But to resist the trebuchets, the cat, and the engine called the ram, it is well to strengthen the entire stone wall on the inside with large oaken timbers, though if earth and clay are plentiful, these materials had better be used. Those who have to defend castles are also in the habit of making curtains of large oak boughs, three or even five deep, to cover the entire wall; and the curtain should be thoroughly plastered with good sticky clay. To defeat the attacks of the ram, men have sometimes filled large bags with hay or straw and lowered them with light iron chains in front of the ram where it sought to pierce the wall. It sometimes happens that the shots fall so rapidly upon a fortress that the defenders are unable to remain on the battlements; it is then advisable to hang out brattices made of light planks and built high enough to reach two ells above the openings in the parapet and three ells below them. They should be wide enough to enable the men to fight with any sort of weapons between the parapet and the brattice wall, and they should be hung from slender beams in such a way that they may be readily drawn in and hung out again later, as one may wish.

The hedgehog will be found an effective device in defending a castle. It is made of large, heavy beams armed along the ridge with a brush of pointed oak nails; it is hung outside the parapet to be dropped on anyone who comes too near the wall. Turnpikes made of large heavy logs armed with sharp teeth of hard oak may be raised on end near the battlements and kept ready to be dropped upon those who approach the castle. Another good device is the briar, which is made of good iron and curved thorns as hard as steel with a barb on every thorn; and the chain, from which it hangs, as high up as a man can reach must be made of spiked links, so that it can neither be held nor hewn; higher up any kind of rope that seems suitable may be used, only, it must be firm and strong. This briar is thrown down among the enemy in the hope of catching one or more of them and then it is pulled up again. A running wheel is also a good weapon for those who defend castles: it is made of two millstones with an axle of tough oak joining them. Planks sloping downward are laid through the openings in the wall; the wheel is rolled out upon these and then down upon the enemy.

A shot wagon is also a good device. This is made like any other wagon with two or four wheels as one likes and is intended to carry a load of stones, hot or cold, as one may prefer. It must also be provided with two firm and strong chains, one on each side, which can be depended on to check the wagon even where it has a long track to run upon. It is meant to run on planks set with a downward slope, but one must be careful to keep the wheels from skidding off the planks. When the chain checks the speed, the wagon shoots its load out upon the men below. The more uneven the stones are, some large and some small, the more effective the load will be. Canny men, who are set to defend a wall and wish to throw rocks down upon the attacking line or upon the penthouse, make these rocks of clay with pebbles, slingstones, and other hard stones placed inside. The clay is burned hard enough on the outside to endure the flight while the load is being thrown; but as soon as the rocks fall they break into fragments and consequently cannot be hurled back again. To break down stone walls, however, large, hard rocks are required. Similarly, when one hurls missiles from a stone fortress against an opposing wooden tower or upon the axletrees which support siege engines, towers, scaling ladders, cats, or any other engine on wheels, the larger and harder the rocks that are used, the more effective they will be.

Boiling water, molten glass, and molten lead are also useful in defending walls. But if a cat or any other covered engine which cannot be damaged by hot water is being pushed toward a castle, it is a good plan, if the engine is lower than the walls, to provide beams carefully shod with iron underneath and in addition armed with large, sharp, red-hot plowshares. These are to be thrown down upon the wooden engine in which the plowshares are likely to stick fast, while the beams may be hoisted up again. This attack should be followed up with pitch, sulphur, or boiling tar.

Mines dug in the neighborhood of a castle are also an excellent protection; the deeper and narrower they are, the better it is; and where men are showing mounted engines toward the walls, it were well if there were many mines. All mines should have a number of small openings, which must be covered so as not to be visible on the surface. They should be filled with fuel of the most inflammable sort, peat or anything else that burns readily. When a castle is attacked at night either from wooden towers or scaling ladders or any other engine on wheels, the defenders should steal out and fire the mines.

Now if it should happen that the enemy’s stones come over the battlements with such violence that the men cannot remain in the open to defend the wall, it is a good plan to set up strong posts cut from thick oak and to lay large and tough cross beams upon these, then to roof the whole over with firm oak timbers, and finally cover the roofing with a layer of earth not less than three or four ells in depth, upon which the rocks may be allowed to drop. In like manner the attack of a wooden tower that is moving toward a castle may be foiled by setting up strong, firm posts rising considerably higher than the attacking tower. But a more effective contrivance than all the engines that I have now described is a stooping shield-giant which breathes forth flame and fire (16). And now we shall close our account of the engines that are useful in defending castle walls with the reminder that every sort of weapon with which one can shoot, hurl, hew, or thrust, and every kind that can be used in attack or defense may be brought into service.

Other than crazy stuff like wheels and spiked logs on chains and the molten glass and so forth, generally missiles ARE the single most important thing for defending a castle or any other fort. You can look at a lot of medieval art and see many examples of the weapons they are carrying. You will see mostly missile weapons (guns, crossbows, bows).



Rocks are probably the number one thing used. (Rocks are used a lot more in pre-industrial warfare of all ages than people really admit). Next in importance are javelins and darts.

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If enemies make it onto the wall you are in real trouble, chances are one side (probably the defender) is heavily outnumbered and about to die.. That said, they also do sorties and repel local breaches and so forth. For hand to hand weapons, you do often see guys with large shields (shields persisted for siege warfare, both for attacker and defender, long after they had declined in popularity (at least for a while) in the front -lines of armies. Polearms are also useful, both to stab and chop at people coming up ladders, as well as for hooking ladders and people to pull them off and away, hopefully to their doom.

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Pre-gunpowder is, in a way, more of a modern RPG thing than most folks think; if you have plate armor in your world you also have guns at that same tech level, troublesome as they are. Stone castles weren't really well developed before guns appeared either for that matter. Just FYI.



Anyway, even if you do not have gunpowder pyrotechnic weapons are also very popular for siege defense and can get very creative, everything from flaming hula hoops to primitive flamethrowers and molatov cocktails are well documented going quite a way back.

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[Brother Oni]

Anyway, even if you do not have gunpowder pyrotechnic weapons are also very popular for siege defense and can get very creative, everything from flaming hula hoops to primitive flamethrowers and molatov cocktails are well documented going quite a way back.

You weren't kidding when you said quite a way back: 9th century BC according to the article on Greek Fire.

The adage "kill it with fire" apparently has a far richer history than I thought.

[fusilier]

Rocks are probably the number one thing used. (Rocks are used a lot more in pre-industrial warfare of all ages than people really admit). Next in importance are javelins and darts.

This is also true of medieval naval warfare; this image is of the Battle of Zonchio 1499, really more renaissance but the same tactics were in use -- hurl stuff down from the fighting tops.

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[Spiryt]

All kinds of quern and mill stones apparently were very commonly turned instruments of war in Medieval times.

Gallus Anonymus mentions them being used during siege of Głogów.

Also mentions some kind of cranes, that were being used to lift the attackers from their ladders, to make them fall.

Seems like interesting and plausible thing to do, using simple mechanical advantage.

I seem to recall seeing something like that on quite few period illustrations, but can't recall were now.

[Galloglaich]

All kinds of quern and mill stones apparently were very commonly turned instruments of war in Medieval times.

Gallus Anonymus mentions them being used during siege of Głogów.

Also mentions some kind of cranes, that were being used to lift the attackers from their ladders, to make them fall.

Seems like interesting and plausible thing to do, using simple mechanical advantage.

I seem to recall seeing something like that on quite few period illustrations, but can't recall were now.

There is a famous account of that at the siege of Rhodes in the Hellenistic period, really complicated battle between massive siege towers and cranes and other engines used by the defenders. Supposedly the Collossus of Rhodes was made from the bronze shields left on the last giant siege tower that the attackers had used.

The two really great eras of siege warfare were the late Classical / Hellenistic period and the late Medieval / Renaissance period. That is when you really get a lot of the very sophisticated devices and (mining and counter-mining, massive siege towers, engines and so forth) techniques in use. My candidate for the most epic of the late Renaissance has to be the siege of Malta of which we have some amazing first-hand accounts.


But this has to be the single most amazing story of the siege of a Medieval castle that I ever heard of.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-together.html

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[Fortinbras]

So I know that we don't have any manuals detailing historical techniques for sword and "heater"-shield combat, but I curious what sorts of things people have been able to figure out work, based on stuff like sword-and-buckler or sword-and-target systems. I have some familiarity with Morozzo sword-and-buckler system, so I'm particularly interested in how those techniques would fare with a larger shield. Is there any real cross-over? It seems like the size of the heater shield would sort of shut down the roverso-mandritto figure-8 pattern I learned, and in fact make it really hard to through any roverso type cuts, does that ring true for anyone whose messed around with this sort of thing?

[Hawkfrost000]

So I know that we don't have any manuals detailing historical techniques for sword and "heater"-shield combat, but I curious what sorts of things people have been able to figure out work, based on stuff like sword-and-buckler or sword-and-target systems. I have some familiarity with Morozzo sword-and-buckler system, so I'm particularly interested in how those techniques would fare with a larger shield. Is there any real cross-over? It seems like the size of the heater shield would sort of shut down the roverso-mandritto figure-8 pattern I learned, and in fact make it really hard to through any roverso type cuts, does that ring true for anyone whose messed around with this sort of thing?

In my experience it depends on the size of the heater.

Roverso's over the shield, descending from guardia alta or sopra bracchio tend to be mostly unchanged, (sometimes you need a bit more angle in your steps) but cuts under the shield from soto bracchio tend to be much more difficult and have a more limited set of targets.

DM

[AttilaTheGeek]

I am considering buying a certain lightsaber whose length is "approx. 44 inches long". Is that an appropriate length for a one-handed, hand-and-a-half, or two-handed blade?

[Rhynn]

I am considering buying a certain lightsaber whose length is "approx. 44 inches long". Is that an appropriate length for a one-handed, hand-and-a-half, or two-handed blade?

That's the length of a one-handed rapier or a two-handed (well, "hand-and-a-half") longsword.

Weapon total length isn't everything; what's more important is hilt/grip length and balancing. Rapiers are hilt/guard-heavy, for instance, with short hilts, so they're one-handed. A sword of the same length and weight as a rapier, but with the point of balance higher, may require two hands to use.

So, how is your lightsaber balanced? (The real way to tell how many hands it's for is to use it.)

[Brother Oni]

So, how is your lightsaber balanced? (The real way to tell how many hands it's for is to use it.)

Assuming it's authentic, it's all in the hilt.

On a more serious note, the blades of most lightsabre toys are retractable hollowed out plastic segments, putting the balance somewhere in the lower third of the blade.

Not so sure about the one listed as the blade is removable and probably has various electronic gubbins inside it which may unbalance it.

[Rhynn]

Assuming it's authentic, it's all in the hilt.

On a more serious note, the blades of most lightsabre toys are retractable hollowed out plastic segments, putting the balance somewhere in the lower third of the blade.

Bwahaha.

Yeah, actual lightsaber use would be a bit... odd. I don't think there'd really be any reason to put two hands on the hilt, ever - it limits your reach and range of motion, and there's basically nothing to be gained by strength or leverage on it. Well, maybe if you're winding and binding against another lightsaber (well, they never seem to wind & bind, they just push at the other sword).

Edit: Well, two hands on the hilt might be useful in giving control and reducing the risk to lop off your limbs. /Edit

That might be a cool idea - German longsword -style (instead of Ep 4-6 kendo-style or Ep 1-3 Hollywood faux-wuxia) lightsaber dueling with a focus on wind & bind...

[Brother Oni]

That might be a cool idea - German longsword -style (instead of Ep 4-6 kendo-style or Ep 1-3 Hollywood faux-wuxia) lightsaber dueling with a focus on wind & bind...

Just remember not to accidentally use any half sword techniques.

All the various lightsaber styles have been defined however in the detail that only fans can (link), so any other style would be fairly minor or esoteric.