Quote Originally Posted by BananaPhone View Post
Could be opposed Agility or Strength, whichever the player prefers? It represents either a powerful grip or leveraging your body to its maximum.

Bertelis has ~50% agility, guy is pretty quick and graceful, yet a goblin has a good chance of resisting his attempts at a grapple and wasting his turn.

The Disarm talent (which Im taking for Regine soon) is an opposed agility test after hitting with an attack, becsuse it's a competition between two sides.
The strength comes into it in the maintaining the grapple part; preventing the enemy from escaping. The agi is in avoiding getting a hold altogether; that feels appropriate to me. Strength and Agility are both still in there already; the hold is just established with WS. I don't want to add more AGI functionality in there. And yes! A goblin does have a decent chance of resisting the grapple - A 25% chance! That feels about right. If it becomes opposed, that number becomes very small indeed against Bertelis, and inconceivable against a Regine, or a skaven assassin. Now that I've added the ability to dagger-stab inside grapples, I don't want to make the grab 'n stab a new problem. Remember, a target that isn't holding a weapon can't parry, and one that isn't trained in dodge can't dodge. Grapple is snatchy enough!

As far as Disarm goes, it's another problem. Again there's a couple of things. Mostly it's the nature of opposed tests.

There's two kinds of opposed tests, which is super unhelpfully explained in the rules, but I'll call them All-Or-Nothing tests and Head-to-Head tests. And the rules don't tell you which is which. Example follows. Imagine a Knight with WS 50% and Agi 50%, and a goblin with WS and Agi 25%

Disarm as an All-or-Nothing:

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Knight rolls AGI in the opposed test. If this fails, the test fails. (50% success; 18.75% cumulative likelihood).
Roll 4: Goblin rolls AGI in the opposed test. It gets a little spongey here because you are comparing degrees of success, but the success chance of the disarm is diminished again because of the small chance the Goblin success with more degrees of success than the knight. That is a sucky small chance of success for such a skill disparity. A knight trying to disarm another knight this way has less than a 7 percent chance of success.

Disarm as Head-to-Head:

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Knight rolls AGI in the opposed test. (50% success; 18.75% cumulative likelihood).
Roll 4: Goblin rolls AGI in the opposed test. If if succeeds with fewer degrees than the knight, it loses; if it exceeds the knight's success degrees, it wins. But if both failed (a 37.5% chance) they reroll until there is a definitive winner.


It's all very clunky. I think it might be best to just turn Disarm into an opposed Agility test comparing degrees of success AND degrees of failure, so if both fail you just work out who screwed up less.

Notably, disarm differs from grapple because it is made in place of an attack; so if you swift attack and the enemy burns their parry on the first attack, they cannot parry the disarm that follows at all. Grapple does not permit you to swift attack; you either charge or standard attack, so you do it once.

Roll 1: Knight rolls to hit (50% Success).
Roll 2: Goblin rolls to parry (25% success; 37.5% cumulative likelyhood)
Roll 3: Goblin rolls AGI to avoid. (25% success; 28.125% cumulative likeihood).

This can be mitigated by someone else attacking to burn their defence, or by using the first half action to feint (yet ANOTHER opposed WS); but it's fitting that trying to get a grapple on someone is not easilly accomplished.

tldr Disarm might need some work but I don't think giving the grappler a way to overpower the grapplee's only guaranteed defense chance against the grapple will be fair. If you're disarmed, you can atleast run away, pick up the weapon, or draw a new one! If you're grappled, and you're not strong, you're just sort of boned.