1. - Top - End - #196
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    LudicSavant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: What drives a poor reputation for the Rogue class?

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant Beast
    At some point, even the Stealthiest Rogue, needs magic, to succeed....that is the system as designed.
    Is it though? I ask genuinely rather than rhetorically. I mean, going back to my previous point regarding who can or can't hit those high DCs, it does require magic to achieve a DC of 30 before level 13 and even then it's a ritual that takes 10 times as long as the task would normally to do it with any certainty. With Expertise, it still takes 10 times as long, but without the magic and at the low, low level of 5.

    To misquote "any sufficiently advanced technique appears as magic to the uninitiated". A level 5 character with Expertise is arguably pulling off what at least appear to be magical effects in their "near impossible" results. This isn't some houserule; it's just extrapolation from the rules at hand. Quite what extent that reaches in actual play is indeed GM dependent, but that such results should appear to achieve what any layman would consider actually impossible is without question. Once a Rogue hits level 11, those feats of "near magic" should become commonplace activity.
    Blatant Beast is referring to the fact that there are a large number of mechanics that make stealth rolls auto-fail, regardless of how high said rolls are.

    As they put it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant Beast
    a Giant Spider's Websense still defeats a Stealth Ability Check of 42.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2024-04-25 at 01:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
    If statistics are the concern for game balance I can't think of a more worthwhile person for you to discuss it with, LudicSavant has provided this forum some of the single most useful tools in probability calculations and is a consistent source of sanity checking for this sort of thing.
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Monster Resistance Data

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones