Quote Originally Posted by Tendril View Post
Well I tend to see a lot of SS and GWM by this level, so the reality is that rogues do end up weak comparatively. I also place pretty high importance on characters being strong at roughly the levels 5-8, since I feel campaigns tend to spend a lot of time there. That's partly a table thing, but it does also seem to be an intentional design decision if you look at XP tables.

This isn't to say that rogues are unredeemable or anything, but at best rogues seem "ok" at the levels where most classes feel like total powerhouses.
That's an issue with lopsided effects certain feats have rather than an indication that the class itself is the problem. Of course stuff like alert and ritual caster have the potential to fill in the gap but it's harder to toss that in a excel sheet.

Now the gap the rogue subclasses get at this point is an issue with the *feel* factor for sure but that a different issue that they ran into trying to receive reconcile the rather normalized scaling the class has with the space that has left. They almost had it figured out with the last 2 subclasses.

**If I had my way I would have made the formation the party moved around in more interactive. the rogue/ranger/other classes with a focus on environmental interactions have benefits that shift depending where they are. PWT should be something a ranger provides by leading the way rather than just face smash spell solution for example.