Quote Originally Posted by Blatant Beast View Post
Expertise is available to all characters now, via a Feat. Expertise, especially in low tier play, is not that much better than the aid provided from a Guidance cantrip.
A feat is a big investment, and only covers 1 skill; now the rogue is up 2 feats on this character. Further, Guidance requires casting a spell, which you may not want to do if you're trying to be quiet, and which may tank a social encounter if you do it in the middle of a conversation.

5e does not make learning new languages something the system natively supports. One either needs to take the Linguist feat, or have enough downtime in between sessions to learn a language.

A rogue dedicated to diplomacy, might simply be unable to effectively communicate, due to not being able to speak the target's language, and most rogue subclasses do not offer telepathy.
Sure, there may be times it doesn't work. This is true for virtually everyone. Ranger I think has the easiest time learning new languages.
A rogue devoted to stealth, is great at hiding themselves if nothing is looking at them, but Pass w/o Trace is allowing everyone to hide. A cleric of Trickery is adding Advantage to someone else's Stealth roll from level one.
This is not a guarantee. I have a -1 to Stealth AND Disadvantage and even with Pass Without Trace it's not a sure thing in our game.
Picking locks is great, but the Silence spell, turns anyone with a hammer into a silent lockpick.
Hammers are less useful against traps, which are governed by the same mechanic that allows you to pick locks.
Expertise in Animal Handling? There is a spell for that....more than one in fact.
Is there? I know you can Speak with Animals but... is that the same as getting an animal to do what you want? Or stop it from being spooked? I'm not so sure.

Also... so far we're casting Speak With Animals, Telepathy, Silence, Pass Without Trace... how many spells are we devoting to replacing the rogue?
Expertise in Medicine? Not great...the same is true for Expertise in Acrobatics, (might as well take Athletics as that skill is more broadly applicable).
This strikes me as sort of saying that when exploring, the terrain is never challenging, and any old spellcaster can walk up and cast a spell to solve the problem, or cast a spell to get to the thing and then cast another spell to solve the problem.

And then of course, the same spellcasters cast their spells in combat and end it within 2 turns.

Sounds like a very easy game of Dungeons and Dragons.
Expertise in Knowledge skills, also pose their own narrative issues. In a movie or a play, it would probably come across as strange that the low intelligence criminal, that comes from a long line of smuggler's, and whom has no formal education and talks like a mafia member from the movie Donny Brasco, (Thieves Cant, baby...forget about it), at level up can suddenly become one of the foremost experts on any bit of arcana or trivia.

It is like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix instantly learning Gongfu,----suddenly the rogue knows celestial mechanics and how the gods relate to the constellations, (Expertise Religion).
I don't find this "issue" compelling in the least. The rogue is an expert.
Even in regards to Knowledge skills, a one level dip in Knowledge cleric, might be a better option than taking Rogue levels, as the Knowledge Domain yields two Knowledge based Expertise skills, and access to medium armor and shields, access to clerical scrolls and magical items, Ritual Magic, and some first level spells.
Many people dip classes. Are we saying now that fighters and wizards are no good because they also dip other classes?
My experience with 5e is people tend to multi-class less than in prior editions, but Rogues and Warlocks are both classes, that I have yet to see played up to 20th level as a single class character.

I've seen two high level Arcane Tricksters, played by different players, advance in a similar fashion: at most they take 11 levels of the rogue class to garner Reliable Talent, and take the rest in Bladesinger.
Taking a class to third tier, gaining 4 Expertises and an extra feat, along with Reliable Talent... and this is an argument that the class is no good...
Extra Attack + Bladesong+ more Wizard spells, and Wizard stuff is generally better than the T4 class stuff the rogue class has. Re-do spells, such as Silvery Barbs also makes abilities like Reliable Talent, in essence weaker, because handing out Advantage to team mates is easier, and the system has a plenitude of options that do that.
This is symptomatic of handing every mechanic in the game to wizards on a silver platter.
Overtime, 5e has almost systemically added in features that weaken the Rogue's grasp on their own niche. BG3 has some great examples of this....one does not need a Rogue at all...stacking buffs, and using Inspiration is all one really needs to pass checks in that game.
My group hasn't found that ANY class is needed.