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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: What drives a poor reputation for the Rogue class?

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    Except we kind of do. Few Barbarians are mentioned in discussions about the Social Pillar, except with regard to their ineptitude at it. Similarly for Clerics in discussions about stealth and scouting (outside a couple of domain options), or the exploration pillar as a whole.
    That's a red herring. There's nothing about barbarians or clerics that makes them worse at social skills or stealth (resp.) than other classes. Barbs and clerics clearly don't have the poor reputation that rogues have (which this thread is about).

    I'll compare it to the Long Rest vs. Short Rest argument; in a game with no short rests, Warlocks and Monks are severely underpowered compared to what should be expected.
    However, this is a fair point. Warlocks are often called problematic because many DMs don't give out short rests all that often. I think we had a thread about that just last week.

    And this is not a player problem. This is a inherent in the rules: short rests take an hour, and for most characters it doesn't make sense to sit still for that long after every combat.
    Likewise, that rogue mobility is largely pointless is not a player problem. Rather, it is inherent in the movement and OA rules that cunning action isn't very useful (although it's fun and flashy).

    "I only value X, so things that do Y are weak" should not apply if Y is an expected part of the game.
    The catch is that for warlocks, Y = "abilities that need an hour's rest to recharge", and this is not an expected part of the game.
    Likewise, the catch is that for rogues, Y = "being better at skills than bounded accuracy allows", and this is not an expected part of the game either.
    So "things that do Y are weak" applies here because Y is not an expected part of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeryan View Post
    Which is largely the problem with Rogues in a nutshell, yes. WotC designed a class that excelled at the entirely uncodified portion of the game.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    skills are wildly unreliable in 5e, being subject to GM's whims far more often than any other feature in the system, and you get Rogues being pretty low on satisfaction charts.
    And that, too.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2024-04-24 at 07:20 AM.
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