Stormcloaks Or Empire (One Of The Three Certainties Of Life)

[Rynjin]

I mean, its not like the Imperials actually make the local laws. Officially, theyre lending military support to Elisif, who they consider the legitimate ruler of Skyrim. Its actually something of a point that Tullius is disinterested in ruling or staying in Skyrim longer than he has to.

Exactly.

And there's no sign that Stormcloaks are any less tolerant than the Imperial faction.

Except all the ones I and others have already mentioned.

They say they hate Nords, I'm just taking them at their word. Madanach, in his dialogue, uses the word "Nords" throughout to designate his enemy.

Those are indeed the people on their land.

If racism can be justified by showing there are historical reasons for it, we should be having an entirely different argument.

The orcs aren't racist at all, reasoned or otherwise. They're isolationist. They do not discriminate based on racial features, they discriminate based on in/out group. This is like saying the women only train cars in Japan are sexist.

But the Nords, so the Imperials insist, are a part of the Empire. Yet Proventus Avenicci dismisses the whole Dragonborn prophecy as "Nord nonsense", and Tullius doesn't even bother to disguise his disdain for the whole country.

Proventus is, indeed, a prejudiced individual. Tullius does not appear to be motivated by racial prejudice, just disdain for those he views as traitors. He's a soldier, through and through. Loyal to the Empire to a fault.

No. No no no no no. Where do you get this "Stormcloaks represent the regressive part of Nord society" from? Sheer unadulterated Imperial propaganda, that's what that is. It has no basis in observable fact.

Their entire platform is built on "returning to the old ways". That is, by definition, regressive.

There's no Dunmer ghetto in Stormcloak Riften.

I've already explained why that is.

Yes, Windhelm has its problems with racial tension. But as the text you cited earlier makes clear, those problems are unique to Windhelm. They go back 200 years, long before "Stormcloaks" were a thing. And very clearly, they are rooted in economics, not ideology.

And Windhelm is...what? Oh yes, the most staunchly traditionalist Nord city and the seat of Stormcloak power. And it seems really convenient that the problems are "economic" in nature yet seem to only affect a singular racial sub-group.

An issue with this discussion is that I cannot draw on the very clear real world parallels at play to illustrate my point, but the talking points you're using are...disturbing in how familiar they are.