Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
That's basically PF2 (which is also largely by the same designers), except that PF2 is much less tactical, and where 4E has a whole role dedicated to crowd control, PF2 doesn't have CC abilities. I'd say that PF2 is more balanced but less streamlined than 4E.
I'm not sure I agree that PF2 is less tactical, although it certainly is differently tactical than 4E. But I definitely don't agree that PF2 lacks CC abilities. To just give one example from each of the first 5 spell ranks, Shockwave is a 15' cone of knocking people prone (stronger than 4E prone as you grant advantage to ranged as well as melee, and standing in PF2 provokes OAs), Entangling Flora is a 20' burst of difficult terrain + chance of -10' speed or even immobilize every turn, Upcast Fear hits 5 enemies with a -1 to -3 debuff to all attacks, saves, defenses, and skills (and each -1 in PF2 is closer to a -2 in 4E), Wall of Fire does the wall things of cutting a battlefield in half, and Synaptic Pulse is a 30' ally-friendly emanation (close burst) that applies rough equivalents of 4E Daze or Stun to all enemies in the area. Even martials can get crowd control--e.g. the 14th level Hammer Quake knocks everyone prone in (more or less) what 4E would call a close blast 3--though these abilities tend to be high level whereas martials have single target control from level 1.

My read on PF2 is that it's a successful melding and evolution of 3E aesthetics and 4E design principles. It manages to balance martials using entirely at-will abilities with casters using traditional D&D style spellcasting (plus various other at-will/encounter/daily resource mixes), which frankly I used to think was an impossible goal. 4E remains my preferred D&D edition but PF2 is currently my favorite D&D-style RPG.