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    Default Re: Abilities: Special, Extraordinary, Spell Like, Supernatural, Natural, get 'em her

    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Sneak Attack is unlabeled too, but we've just seen designer commentary that assumes it's Ex (plus it's listed as Ex in numerous places outside the PHB as Ex). Other abilities like some of the Ranger ones aren't labeled but pop up on things like the Troll Hunter clearly labeled as Special Abilities.
    Labeled somewhere probably puts them out of the unlabeled category. Good points, though.

    Bonus feats are a bit of a special case, because unlike every other class ability in existence they're never listed as Special Abilities, but are rather just jammed into the standard feat list with a little B over them. Still, they are "an unmarked ability [that] lacks a clear supernatural element" which according to the FAQ makes them Extraordinary.
    Interesting, though the statement they make there in the FAQ is...really vague. Assumptions and DM decisions don't really feel like RAW to me. Is the FAQ a legitimate source? I think if that's answered with logic/inferences, we could move in a good direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ
    It is reasonable to assume that sneak attack is an extraordinary ability. When in doubt, the DM should decide if an unmarked ability qualifies. Anything that lacks a clear supernatural element should be fair play.
    Still, though, saying something should be fair play isn't saying it is fair play. They're still leaving it up to the DM. That doesn't seem like RAW to me, regardless of whether the FAQ is a legitimate source.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettlekid View Post
    Considering you're fighting a losing battle against reason, I don't think I'm the one you're losing. For one, you don't seem to know what you're arguing.
    He's arguing that spellcasting is an extraordinary special ability, as noted here:

    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK
    No, I'm making the argument that Spells are a Special Attack that are Extraordinary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nettlekid
    I don't think you need to go slow, I think we've lapped you and you've yet to realize.
    This is just unnecessary. This isn't about winning an argument. It's about discussing whether spellcasting is a natural ability, a special ability, or unlabeled (and only unlabeled). There's no winner here.

    On the other hand, saying "we're...losing Nettlekid" is unnecessary, too.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2013-07-10 at 07:39 PM.
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