# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 5e/Next >  Strixhaven backgrounds (+ feats)  How much creep is this?

## 5eNeedsDarksun

Edit: I'm shortening this, as I haven't had any responses.

I've been able to paste Shield on top of a full caster (Cleric) with a Strixhaven background and feat (in a Strixhaven campaign).  This, with the other goodies that come with it has so far (up to level 3) been a noticeable power bump over default.  With a couple of other characters doing roughly the same, game balance seems significantly out, so...

I was just interested in others' experiences with these backgrounds + feats.  
1.        How much of a bump do you figure this is worth?  
2.        Also what are the classes that benefit the most?  Despite that the example I gave was a full caster I'm not convinced they get the most benefit.  By % in terms of slots 1/2 and 1/3 casters get more out of this.
3.        Do these benefits start to diminish as the characters level or are we going to continue to be overtuned to this extent?

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## animorte

Sorry, with all the fun around the new UA, I hadnt noticed this. I quite like Strixhaven and havent really had much success in attempting to discuss it on GitP. So yay!!!

My very first dive into it, I was DM and had this classless concept strictly to test out just how strong Strixhaven features alone actually are: Pick your race, choose schools background, schools starting feat, and extracurriculars/job, eventually mascot, etc

Everybody just had a D8, increasing on level. Obviously the background spell lists werent relevant because nobody has any spell-casting feature. In that fashion, it does indeed stand alone quite well. Given that you can easily start with 6 different skills, 2 of 10 different cantrips, one of nearly any 1st-level spell, not including whatever your race brings to the table (and the magic items).

The second time, I was fortunately a player and it was full on classes, etc. We had an Eldritch Knight, a Druid (dont recall circle), and myself as a Four Elements Monk (I intentionally went for the Intramural Water-Dancing Club).

It absolutely made a bigger difference on the Eldritch Knight than it did for the Druid. I think, more than anything else, thats because the EK has a greater restricted spell list.

Strixhaven Initiate feat is still pretty even with Magic Initiate, as it greatly limits your cantrip selection, but allows two different lists for the 1st-level spell.

Yes, it does kind of start to diminish over higher levels strictly because its front-loaded to begin with (especially if you dont have spell-casting features to benefit from the spell lists). Still being creative with low level options has been one of my strong suits, depends on the player.

Weve been wanting to run a different story through the setting a third time (swapping to the third DM or me again, probably me) and I know a Paladin and Lore Bard are ready. Its been a while though, might not happen. _(Secret bonus: I actually want to play an Expert Sidekick class as a Fractal Mascot whose master died. I made a thread several months ago discussing sidekicks, mascots, and Strixhaven in general.)_

Probably my favorite thing about the book is how they incorporate interactions with NPCs. Ive been able to incorporate it for different other things since first trying it out. Thats why I love the UA Influence Action so much.

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## 5eNeedsDarksun

> Sorry, with all the fun around the new UA, I hadnÂt noticed this. I quite like Strixhaven and havenÂt really had much success in attempting to discuss it on GitP. So yay!!!
> 
> My very first dive into it, I was DM and had this classless concept strictly to test out just how strong Strixhaven features alone actually are: Pick your race, choose schoolÂs background, schoolÂs starting feat, and extracurriculars/job, eventually mascot, etcÂ
> 
> Everybody just had a D8, increasing on level. Obviously the background spell lists werenÂt relevant because nobody has any spell-casting feature. In that fashion, it does indeed stand alone quite well. Given that you can easily start with 6 different skills, 2 of 10 different cantrips, one of nearly any 1st-level spell, not including whatever your race brings to the table (and the magic items).
> 
> The second time, I was fortunately a player and it was full on classes, etc. We had an Eldritch Knight, a Druid (donÂt recall circle), and myself as a Four Elements Monk (I intentionally went for the Intramural Water-Dancing Club).
> 
> It absolutely made a bigger difference on the Eldritch Knight than it did for the Druid. I think, more than anything else, thatÂs because the EK has a greater restricted spell list.
> ...




First, don't apologize; I'm glad somebody was interested in this enough to comment.  Sounds like you had good experiences.  I figured maybe I'd missed the boat on this conversation since Strixhaven had been out for a while.  Part of me thinks I should have focused my post on my 2nd question: Which class(es) / builds get the biggest boost from these options?  

I was thinking an EK (and AT) would get pretty good bang for the buck.  While nobody has done this in our group, it occurred to me that any Fighter (or Paly for that matter) who took GWM as a level 1 feat could take a Familiar and get automatic advantage on their 1 attack per round.  The end result is going to be able to fairly reliably power attack with 100% of your attacks, resulting in d10 +13 points of damage. This will trigger the bonus attack a lot of the time given hp of tier 1 creatures.

As far as our current game, now that the Bard and I (the Cleric) are level 3 we have enough spell slots to use Shield somewhat regularly.  I'd rate this as a bigger boost for me since the Bard already had Silvery Barbs and obviously only has one reaction as well as being limited on how many spells can be cast.  We don't generally do the Hexblade dip thing at our table, but if that was a possibility the Bard could easily get Shield (and med armor) that way, while it's tougher for the Cleric.  

Anyway, what are the best class and spell combos with Strixhaven?

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## animorte

> First, don't apologize; I'm glad somebody was interested in this enough to comment.  Sounds like you had good experiences.  I figured maybe I'd missed the boat on this conversation since Strixhaven had been out for a while.  Part of me thinks I should have focused my post on my 2nd question: Which class(es) / builds get the biggest boost from these options?  
> 
> I was thinking an EK (and AT) would get pretty good bang for the buck.  While nobody has done this in our group, it occurred to me that any Fighter (or Paly for that matter) who took GWM as a level 1 feat could take a Familiar and get automatic advantage on their 1 attack per round.  The end result is going to be able to fairly reliably power attack with 100% of your attacks, resulting in d10 +13 points of damage. This will trigger the bonus attack a lot of the time given hp of tier 1 creatures.
> 
> As far as our current game, now that the Bard and I (the Cleric) are level 3 we have enough spell slots to use Shield somewhat regularly.  I'd rate this as a bigger boost for me since the Bard already had Silvery Barbs and obviously only has one reaction as well as being limited on how many spells can be cast.  We don't generally do the Hexblade dip thing at our table, but if that was a possibility the Bard could easily get Shield (and med armor) that way, while it's tougher for the Cleric.  
> 
> Anyway, what are the best class and spell combos with Strixhaven?


We didnt have an excessive amount of optimizing, as Im the closest we have to an optimizer, but I DM the most.

But it really seems like you nailed it. 1/2 and 1/3 casters definitely feel the benefit of the additional spells the most. Of course, something like the _shield_ or _silvery barbs_ spells, low level and still valuable stands out for full casters.

I imagine Rogues would also benefit greatly from the mascot familiar.

Are both of you grabbing the Strixhaven Initiate  feat at 4th level? Depending on school, it does a great job at helping round out a casters versatility.

Or are you looking at the mascot? Its more specific, but darned if they arent a wonderful addition to the game, especially if youve got the imagination to benefit from their abilities.

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## Aquillion

The Strixhaven backgrounds are intended solely for Strixhaven campaigns (where everyone is expected to take them), as a way of making the game more magic-focused by giving everyone's magic a boost right out of the gate, as well as to add some diversity to characters in a campaign where everyone is expected to play a full-caster.  They shouldn't normally be used in other contexts.

If I had to evaluate them as compared to other backgrounds...  they give you a free feat, and the spells and proficencies they give you are worth about as much as another feat, if not more.

Every caster benefits.  Full casters and classes whose features are focused on casting benefit more.  I'd argue that casters with weaker spell lists (ie. not Wizards) also benefit more, although really wizards benefit a huge amount anyway.  But the benefit isn't really the point, since it's intended to be used only for a very specific sort of campaign that isn't supposed to resemble a traditional one in the first place.

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## Witty Username

I have no direct experience with Strixhaven, but the backgrounds read similarly to the Ravnica backgrounds which I do have experience with. 
Based on that, I suspect there is emphasis on playing a caster of some sort, but any caster will do well. And a lot if it is to help the class and guild themes to cooperate.
For a Ravnica example, Rakdos got Firebolt on their list of cantrips, this helps classes like Bard and Warlock better fit the astectics of Rakdos.

The Strixhaven initiate feat, looks alot like magic initiate, so I would suspect similar, strong at early levels, so-so mid and late levels, never bad.

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## Jervis

Over core its massive creep. But its basically 5.5/dndone design in base 5e so thats to be expected. Theyre for a module and should be treated as such. If you dont give every background a free feat then laugh at any player that wants to use it

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## 5eNeedsDarksun

> We didnt have an excessive amount of optimizing, as Im the closest we have to an optimizer, but I DM the most.
> 
> But it really seems like you nailed it. 1/2 and 1/3 casters definitely feel the benefit of the additional spells the most. Of course, something like the _shield_ or _silvery barbs_ spells, low level and still valuable stands out for full casters.
> 
> I imagine Rogues would also benefit greatly from the mascot familiar.
> 
> Are both of you grabbing the Strixhaven Initiate  feat at 4th level? Depending on school, it does a great job at helping round out a casters versatility.
> 
> Or are you looking at the mascot? Its more specific, but darned if they arent a wonderful addition to the game, especially if youve got the imagination to benefit from their abilities.


I'm set up to take Res Con at 4th.  Maybe could get the Mascot Feat at 8th, though I'm realizing now that my Fey Touched (Misty Step) would somewhat overlap or be redundant with the teleport/ switch places ability with the Familiar.  In retrospect I could have taken something else other than Fey Touched at level 1, then picked up the Mascot at 4th.  That said, the familiar would obviously be useful.  I don't know what others are planning.

I'd agree with Rogue and the familiar to make sure of advantage on one attack, as well as maybe a blade cantrip.  My last Rogue, I ended up taking Magic Initiate to get both of these; nice that AT gets these anyway, so you'd have options.

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