# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 > Pathfinder Guide to the Spiritualist

## CockroachTeaParty

Howdy folks!  Me and Novawurmson have been busy making a guide to the Spiritualist, a new class from Occult Adventures.  

Link to the Guide

Being a 'buddy class,' there's a lot of ground to cover.  However, after an in-depth analysis, we have come to the conclusion that the Spiritualist is _spooky._  (It's also a pretty cool class that's fun and stuff!)

Have a read, folks.  There are now guides for all six occult classes!  The prophecy is fulfilled!  The sleeper has awoken!  BLURGH!

Questions?  Comments?  Why not post in this forum thing?

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## Florian

Reading the guide right now and so far, a little bit underwhelmed. Anyways, you guys have done a thorough job on it. Will read further an comment later.

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## Florian

Ok, found out what is bothering me.
Been playing a Spititualst (Fractured Mind) now for quite a while (Levels 1 to 15 right now) and it is not a "buddy" class, especially not if you compare it to the (Un)Summoner.
The phantom is not a buddy. It's pretty [manure] compared to other kinds of pet, especially an Eidolon. What it is, is an extension to your casting abilities and a mobile buff/debuff bot.
Two things:
You have the complete healing range of a cleric and the phantom to deliver it.
If you want to go to town with a tomahawk, you retract your phantom and do it yourself.

I think this guide pretty much overvalues the phantom being up and around.

Exit: Please note that the phantom itself has all the right stats for the whole Eldritch Heritage feat chain. You can customize it at your leasure there.

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## Slithery D

Golf clap for the title, gentlemen.

Don't forget to update it with the Occult Realms phantoms at some point.

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## CockroachTeaParty

@Florian:

I'm... gonna have to disagree with you pretty heartily.  I agree that a phantom isn't as strong a fighter as an eidolon or an animal companion (the Anger phantom is the only one that comes close).  But any phantom is still a useful flanking partner, skirmisher, etc.

Also, you're severely undervaluing the phantom's scouting ability.  Right out of the box, at level 1, you can send your phantom through any door or wall to see what's on the other side.  You'll never enter a room blind again.  Sure, the eidolon or animal companion can scout, but there's those pesky _solid objects_ that get in the way sometimes, not to mention an animal's limited intelligence or the fact that you need to burn spells to communicate with it in the first place.

Did you even read the guide?  I literally talk about how the phantom is a mobile buffing/debuffing platform, talk about how it can deliver touch spells from the safety of incorporeality, etc. etc.  If the definition of 'buddy' is 'someone that helps you out with stuff,' then the phantom... _is your buddy._

If you don't like the phantom, you can pick up the ectoplasmatist archetype...

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## Draco_Lord

Just read through the guide, and found it interesting (got me thinking about making a Spiritualist for my next character), but I'm terrible at advice on these things, things.

I would like to say I did like the Roleplay Ideas section. Makes for some interesting thoughts.

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## Florian

@CTP:

Yes, I read the guide, as I do with all your guides as I find them to be thought-provoking.

Ok, before I go on with the Spiritualist, let me give you some suggestion about the format you use, based on treeantmonk, and a thing that has been troubling me with your guides so far. See, I read guides to gain quick access to a class and learn what viable builds are out there. Your ability scores section looks like a rainbow, because you take all possible directions into account. That works with classes like the Psychic, where you only have one generall direction to develop that class in, but is more bewieldering then usefull with highly customizeable classes like the Mesmerist or Spiritualist.
So, let me suggest that you start with the general builds and then go into the ability scores for the builds. As an example, I like the way Bodhi does this for the Paladin.

You list six different kinds of builds, but two of them are secondary roles that can be archieves with nearly any build (debuffer and face), two can be collapsed into one general build (weapons) and ranged can be removed alltogether because it doesn't work out. So we're stuck with the same options a, say, Bard would have: caster, weapon, mixed mode.
These create three very distinct profiles and those will also affect how to use the phantom.

Now, for the phantom, I do think it is definetelly worth noting what the Spiritualist "inherits" and what not. This sheds more light on how the five different forms of the phantom should be used and the juggling that must be done on this part.
Here, I think it is very important to stress that the phantom will only get two attacks because the Spiritualist himself will gain access to exactly those two attacks as they are, you inherit them at level 8.

Unlike a, say, pure Cleric or Warpriest, inheriting stuff is very i portant here, and I have the feeling that your guide glosses it over, as well as not mentioning the juggling of forms enough.
For example, a fully built on Anger phantom is still weak, but in passive form is a great upgrade to the Spiritualist. Shared Consciousness and Bonded Manifestation are two very important class features, maybe even more important than the phantom itself. die

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## Eldaran

Amazing guide, really thorough and well done.

Can you explain why you rated Mad Hallucination green?  It seems just awful, it's humanoid only, really short range, and does less than Doom does.  If you're going to get someone to fail a will save, I'd expect to get something better out of it.  Also do you think the Spirit can deliver SLA touch spells?  Might want to mention it either way.

I would mention Martial Training for the Spirit, especially Black Seraph, it's flavorful and effective.  The Spiritualist could benefit too if they're mixing things up in melee.  Also, Deadly Agility from PoW deserves mention for the spirits as well.  Granted, it's third party, but widely accepted.

Something strongly worth investing in for the Spirits if you're going combat heavy is a way to get additional natural attacks.  They only have two base, but have no limit like an Eidolon.  Ring of Rat Fangs and Helm of the Mammoth Lord grant extra natural attacks, I'm sure there's some spells out there that do the same too.  Of great value would be a way to get extra slam attacks, since they'd benefit Spirits who have effects that trigger on a slam.  The only way I know of is Gloves of the Beast from Ultimate Psionics, which can give you 2 extra slams, and they come in boot form too for 4 extra slams, though I'm not sure if having the same item in different slots stacks.

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## CockroachTeaParty

> Something strongly worth investing in for the Spirits if you're going combat heavy is a way to get additional natural attacks.  They only have two base, but have no limit like an Eidolon.  Ring of Rat Fangs and Helm of the Mammoth Lord grant extra natural attacks, I'm sure there's some spells out there that do the same too.  Of great value would be a way to get extra slam attacks, since they'd benefit Spirits who have effects that trigger on a slam.  The only way I know of is Gloves of the Beast from Ultimate Psionics, which can give you 2 extra slams, and they come in boot form too for 4 extra slams, though I'm not sure if having the same item in different slots stacks.


I think that might have been Nova rating Mad Hallucination green; personally I wouldn't rater it much higher than black.  It's got a decent duration, and it isn't a (Fear) spell, so it could work on a paladin or other fear-immune type, but otherwise it seems pretty middle-of-the-road to me.

We didn't cover 3rd party stuff, which might be worthy of an appendix at some point.  I don't know much about 3rd party options outside of a dash of DSP psionics, so further research would likely be required.

One way to get extra natural attacks on your phantom is the 5th level spell _phantom limb_ from Occult Origins.  It can give our phantom a pair of claw attacks.  The Undead Anatomy spells are another potential source of more/different natural attacks for your phantom.  Sadly, these are both late-game options.

@Florian:

A section describing the options or play style of a spiritualist over the course of certain level ranges would probably be worthwhile.  I've only seen the Spiritualist in play from the mid-levels onward, so I can't speak with as much expertise about the low-levels.  

As for formatting and the information presented, we're getting into the subjective.  It was just the sweeping black/white statements of your previous post that I found somewhat _vexing._  We were trying to filter and examine the options available; I can't claim to know the 'best' build for a class so open-ended.

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## Florian

@CTP

*Laughs*

English is not my native tongue, so I may come over more terse than meant. ;)

But yeah, I think that it saddly shows that you haven't played this class from the ground up. Especially on the lower levels, there are real hard logistical hurdles to take and they change the view on the phantom.

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## CockroachTeaParty

> @CTP
> 
> *Laughs*
> 
> English is not my native tongue, so I may come over more terse than meant. ;)
> 
> But yeah, I think that it saddly shows that you haven't played this class from the ground up. Especially on the lower levels, there are real hard logistical hurdles to take and they change the view on the phantom.


I don't see the logistics much harder than a low-level summoner's eidolon, really.  

The eidolon takes a while to 'get going,' especially in defense.  You have a choice to make: you either burn your limited spell slots on spells like _shield_ and _mage armor_ for your eidolon to help keep it alive, or you focus on offense at the risk of getting the eidolon killed.  Worst case scenario you fall back on your summon monster SLA, which isn't too bad.

With the phantom, you can either spec it towards combat, in which it requires the same investment in defenses as an eidolon, or you can spec it towards something closer to combat support, using Intimidate, etc.  In this case you can keep the phantom incorporeal; at low levels, there will be very few things even capable of harming it.  Thus, the resources you would otherwise be spending on defense for the phantom are redirected to yourself or your allies, or offensive/utility casting.  

Some of this discussion is also campaign-dependent.  In a largely social game, for instance, you'll probably have to have your phantom spend more time riding around in your head; people would get too weirded out by the phantom if it's floating around next to you all the time.  In such a game, you'll have to rely more on your own spells; the phantom is a nice form of mental defense, and you can bust out partial manifestation in times of duress.  

Really, at low levels the phantom's biggest strength is undeniably scouting ability.  Peaking through doors, keeping in telepathic contact with your phantom, you have a low-risk, effective scouting method for a large variety of situations.  I'm reminded of the 3.5 Binder from Tome of Magic with that vestige that summons ravens as mobile spies...  

In my RL group, our Spiritualist is around level 12, with a Zeal phantom.  She doesn't get in combat herself; she's a support character.  Her spells mostly consist of defensive buffs for herself and her phantom, group buffs like _haste_, a bit of healing, and the odd battlefield control spell (_etheric shards_).  Her phantom usually spends its time incorporeal, following the melee characters and providing the boost to attacks and saves from its aura, while spamming Intimidate.  On occasion, it goes ectoplasmic, usually to help mop up weakened enemies and provide flanking bonuses.  

It's certainly not the terror that an eidolon of the same level can be.  I've seen eidolon's tank entire encounters with nigh-impenetrable defenses and preposterous offensive output.  The phantom is certainly tanky; it's rarely ever hit, with a high AC in either form, even before defensive buffs.  At level 12, it's got an AC somewhere in the low 30's; every time an enemy attacks it, it's a victory for the group, since that's one attack wasted that could have gone toward living (non-expendable) party members.

So far the phantom has only ever 'died' once, and that was because they had to teleport out of a bad situation; there wasn't time to get the phantom back to safety (I think her one use of phantom recall had already been used), so the etheric tether was severed when they teleported.  I'm not sure I _ever_ saw the summoner's eidolon seriously threatened (this was in another group), but it seems the phantom reaches a similar level of relative defensive safety, even without magic items of its own.

Really, I think the phantom hits the 'sweet spot' for a 'pet.'  It's not overwhelmingly powerful or capable of destroying entire encounters on its own, but it's always helpful, lending a numerical edge in the party's favor not unlike that of a bard.  Also, unlike animal companions, you never have to ask the question "what do with do with the bear?" when you hit a social encounter.  Sure, you can dismiss an eidolon, but the phantom can still be around in the spiritualist's head, providing mechanical benefits regardless of the snootiness of the Duchess's grand ball.

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## Novawurmson

Hey, three days later, I'm here! Hope everyone enjoys reading this as much as we enjoyed writing it!

I'm GMing for a spiritualist now, so I'll be tweaking the guide a bit as more data rolls in. He's going _heavy_ into debuffing to assist the psion in the group by nuking enemy's saves.

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## Florian

Just4Fun, two thematic Phantom builds:

"Unrepentent Killer" - Close Combat Phantom
Base: Anger.
Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Skill Focus (K:Planes), Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal) feat chain, Power Attack, Cornugon Smash.

"Dead Paladin" - Healing Support Phantom.
Base: Zeal.
Attribute Spread: 3x Wis +1
Feats: Skill Focus (Heal), Eldritch Heritage (Celestial), Believers Boon, Believers Hands.

Infernal and Protean also produce nice results. Protean is especially good for controll-focused phantoms.

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## Aldrakan

Can a phantom take Eldritch Heritage? Its pre-requisites include character level 3rd, but the phantom doesn't have levels at all, just HD.

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## NinjaSonic

Why can't you use Slashing Grace with the Ectoplasmist archetype? I've been hearing conflicting things. A few people saying you can take Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus (Ectoplasmic Lash) to allow you to take Slashing Grace (Ectoplasmic Lash).

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## Psyren

> Why can't you use Slashing Grace with the Ectoplasmist archetype? I've been hearing conflicting things. A few people saying you can take Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus (Ectoplasmic Lash) to allow you to take Slashing Grace (Ectoplasmic Lash).


You can - the problem is that it's suboptimal, because Spiritual Combat works like Spell Combat. While not specifically called out, the fact that spell combat doesn't work with slashing grace suggests that the intent is for spiritual combat to not do so either. Your GM may allow the loophole though.

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## Slithery D

Any plan to update this with the Ultimate Intrigue archetypes?

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## CockroachTeaParty

> Any plan to update this with the Ultimate Intrigue archetypes?


Haven't taken a look at UI yet.  I've been spending a bit too much lately, so it might be a while, or at least until it hits the SRD.

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## Therians

I was looking up to the spiritualist, as far as concept and RP goes it could very well suit my next PC, but as far as optimizatins goes i'm a bt doubtful, if the phantom, aside for being able to scout trough solid object and have the handy social ability to pop in and out is just inferior to a companion animal can this class compete with a similar 6 level spell caster as the hunter to not speak about a druid that gets the animal companion and full spell casting? I was even looking at the death druid tht gets the phanotm, but at the expense of both animal companion and wild shape, so if the phantom is worse than animal companion and to get if i have to even lose wild shape it seems pretty underwhelming.

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## Slithery D

Psychic Anthology introduced a Kindness phantom (grant an immediate action bonus attack to an ally when you hit an enemy, Lay on Hands [swift on the Spiritualist, later with mercies], faster Aid Another and eventually bonus damage on the bonus ally attack), an archetype that gives you a spiritualist themed Black Blade instead of a phantom, an archetype that gives you ghostly animal companion(s) instead of a phantom, and a bad anti-haunt archetype.

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## Slithery D

The Phantom Blade can spellcombat/spellstrike with Heal/Harm at high levels. That's pretty whoa.

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## Serafina

The Phantom Blade is really far removed from the traditional Spiritualist - you don't have a phantom, after all! The archetype is best seen as an alternative to the Magus, with different casting and spell list, as well as the ability to harbor your blade.

And at first glance, it appears the Phantom Blade really suffers on account of not having that many touch-range spells on it's list. Certainly, you'll never be as-good a damage dealer than the Magus. However, you CAN find some decent spells at every level, and just having Spell Combat is damn good already, so you'll play much more as a self-buffing character.
*Spoiler: Spiritualist Touch-Range Spells*
Show

First, note that this isn't a fully complete list:
*1st-Level Spells*
Chill Touch
Touch of Gracelessness
*2nd-Level Spells*
Death Knell
Disfiguring Touch
Ghoul Touch
Stricken Heart
Touch of Idiocy
*3rd-Level Spells*
Force Punch
Vampiric Touch
*4th-Level Spells*
Enervation
*5th-Level Spells*
Slay Living
*6th-Level Spells*
Harm

Your first-level staple will likely be Chill Touch - it's only 1D6 damage and 1 Strenght damage, but you get one touch per level so that's really spell slot efficient. 
Ghoul Touch is strong at second level, but Stricken Heart is very strong too, with 2D6 damage and more importantly stagger for 1 round - and 1 Minute if you land a critical hit, which is far more likely with a weapon with high crit-range.
Both third-level options are good survivability options - Force Punch does decent damage (up to 10D4), but just punting someone far away from you can be highly useful. Vampiric Touch just makes you more durable, especially with critical hits.
Enervation is a staple spell for a reason, and you have that.
Slay Living is honestly not good - it's only slightly more damage than Vampiric Touch, except with a save. So you get nothing good at 5th-level, but you'll never have enough spell slots to spam that anyway.
Harm is obviously great, much more so if you land a critical hit, so you do have a high-end damage spell.

It'd have been a much stronger archetype if you could get something akin to the Close Range arcana, because the Spiritualist has a lot of good close-range spells. Still, you get solid enough spells early enough that it's perfectly viable to use Spell Strike.

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## Mbarbs

(I hope this isn't a necro.)

I don't understand why you value the Human favored class bonus to give HP to the phantom much at all. In 99% of the situations where it would matter, you can transfer HP 1-to-1 from the Spiritualist to the Phantom. That means that HP on the phantom are no better than HP on the spiritualist. Barring a few corner cases, it's always better to use your Favored Class bonus to put the HP on yourself than on the Phantom, and anybody can do that regardless of race. Once you hit level 14, then it's (almost) as good to have the HP on the Spiritualist and on the Phantom, but before that having them on the Spiritualist is way better because the Spiritualist can freely give HP to the Phantom but the Phantom cannot give HP to the Spiritualist. On top of all of that, in circumstances where the Phantom is hiding, HP on the Phantom are useless. (Assuming that the Phantom takes more attacks than the Spiritualist, there are minor recovery-related benefits to the Spiritualist being the one who holds most of the duo's HP capacity as well.)

The Human Favored class ability to give HP to the phantom at level-up is literally completely valueless, and actively bad for you to use. It should not count as a positive in any way, because using it only hurts you. (Barring extreme corner cases, like somebody hitting your Phantom with Power Word: Kill or whatever.) There are reasons you might give a skill point to the Phantom instead of yourself, but it is always inferior to give it a HP that you could give yourself, as near as I can tell.

It's possible that I'm missing something big, but the complete fluidity of HP from the Spiritualist to the Phantom would seem to mean that HP on the Spiritualist are just as good as HP on the Phantom when it comes to keeping the Phantom alive, and they're way better when it comes to keeping the Spiritualist alive.

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## daneiltherat

What do you think about some of the new Archtypes that came out for them? Neurologist and Plauge Eater are my favorites.

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## Starbuck_II

I love Priest of Fallen because besides granting additional abilities to Phantom, you get channel energy (and later domains).

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## truemane

*Metamagic Mod*: Thread Necromancy is very spiritual.

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