# Forum > Gaming > Homebrew Design > D&D 5e/Next Oath of Discovery

## Gnomes2169

*The Oath of Discovery*

*Tenets* The oath of discovery calls out to the more adventurous and scholarly paladins. While still skilled swordsmen, the paladins that take this oath prefer to think and plan before resorting to combat. Their oaths emphasize the importance of knowledge, exploration and research, as well as being careful about who they share their discoveries with. 

_Awareness:_ One should always be aware of their surroundings, current events and potential mysteries to be solved. Additionally, denying aspects of one's self while preaching discovery and knowledge is the greatest form of delusion and hypocrisy. One should know themselves better than they know the world, and should always be searching for new aspects to discover.
_Exploration:_ Discovery and advancement can only occur through exploration; whether it be exploration of one's limits, the world itself or experimentation of natural laws! One should always be ready to explore and test. 
_Prudence:_ The things that an explorer learns and discovers should be shared. However, they should then take responsibility for anything and everything that they decide to reveal, no matter how severe or terrible the consequences might end up being. Prudence on who to share revelations with is something that must be learned and exercised. 
_Suspicion:_ Masters of arcane power and extra-planar beings often misuse the power and influence they are granted, and so care must be given not to trust them too far. If there is a choice, and no driving need, one should not willingly subjugate themselves to the will of such beings. 

Paladin level
Spells

3rd
_Comprehend languages, detect magic_

5th
_Mirror image, misty step_

9th
_Dispel magic, remove curse_

13th
_Arcane eye, freedom of movement_

17th
_Commune, steel wind strike*_


_*Xanathar's Guide to Everything_

*Channel Divinity*
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options.
Turn the Arcane As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer censuring beings powered by arcane or eldritch sources. Each abberation, construct and elemental within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes damage. 
A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can only use the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there is nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.Arcane Outpouring You can use your Channel Divinity as an action to mimic the effects of a spell. When you do, you may cast a spell of the Divination or Enchantment school of a level equal to or less than your proficiency bonus. If this spell has any components, you must still provide those components. The spell's casting time becomes this channel divinity's action (_ignore its normal casting time_).

*Aura of Inspiration* 
Beginning at 7th level, your explorer's spirit and oath are projected from you. You and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you add your Charisma bonus to Intelligence checks. Additionally, you choose two of the following skills; Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Nature or Religion. Whenever you make a roll for the chosen skills you add double your proficiency bonus to that roll. 
At 18th level the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

*Discovered secrets*
At 15th level you learn 1 wizard spell of your choice of each spell level you have access to. These spells count as paladin spells for you, are always prepared and do not count against the maximum number of spells you may have prepared, though they cannot be changed when you prepare new spells each day. 
Whenever you gain access to higher level Paladin spells, you learn a new wizard spell for that level. You may change one of these known spells for a spell of the same level each time you level up.

*Revelation*
At 20th level you can temporarily unlock the mysteries of the universe. Three small stars come down to float around your body, and you take on the appearance of an astral being for a time, your eyes glowing either a brilliant white or dazzling blue.
Using your action, you undergo a transformation for 1 minute and gain the following benefits:
You have advantage on all attack rolls and enemies have disadvantage on saving throws against your spells.You gain Truesight out to 120 feet from yourself.You gain three floating stars; a white, green and blue. Each of these stars may be used to cast a spell in place of a spell slot. The white star can be used to cast a level 3 spell, the green a level 4, and the blue a level 5. These stars may only be used to cast spells, they cannot be used for the Divine Smite feature. If all three stars are expended before Revelation has been active for a minute, then Revelation immediately ends.
Once you have used this feature, you can't use it again until you complete a long rest.

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## Ninja_Prawn

> *The Oath of Discovery*
> 
> *Tennants* The oath of discovery calls out to the more adventurous and scholarly paladins. While still skilled swordsmen, the paladins that take this oath prefer to think and plan before resorting to combat. Their oaths emphasize the importance of knowledge, exploration and research, as well as being careful about who they share their discoveries with. 
> 
> _Awareness_ One should always be aware of their surroundings, current events and potential mysteries to be solved. 
> _Exploration_ Discovery and advancement can only occur through exploration; whether it be exploration of one's limits, the world itself or experimentation of natural laws! One should always be ready to explore and test. 
> _Responsibility_ The things that an explorer learns and discovers should be shared. However, they should then take responsibility for anything any everything that they decide to reveal, no matter how severe or terrible the conciquences might end up being. Prudence on who to share revelations with is something that must be learned and exercised. 
> _Self discovery_ Denying aspects of one's self while preaching discovery and knowledge is the greatest form of delusion and hypocracy. One should know themselves better than they know the world, and should always be searching for new aspects to discover. 
> 
> ...


Spell list looks good. You've misspelled 'tenets', 'consequences', 'hypocrisy' and 'dispel', if you care about that sort of thing.




> *Channel Divinity*
> When you take this oath at 3rd level you, gain the following two Channel Divinity options.
> Aided exploration You can use your Channel Divinity as an action to grant yourself an allies a small jolt of inspiration when they need it. You and up to your charisma bonus of friendly creatures within 30 feet of you gain a small mark that looks like a tiny star. At any time in the next minute, a creature with this mark may expend it to gain addvantage on one ability check.Explorer's Jaunt You can use your Channel Divinity as a bonus action to allow yourself to turn into a mist that grants you to access to areas you could not reach before. For one minute, you can up to move your walking speed as a mist whenever you move on your turn. Moving in this manner allows you to move vertically and through cracks as thin as a key hole. You take physical form on reaching your destination, and if you dash then at least half of the distance traveled must be made using one of your other movement types (flying, walking, swimming, etc), and your body becomes physical doring that movement. Oppurtinity attacks made against your mist form are made at disadvantage.


I like the first one. Once/day bonus action _Gaseous Form_ from level 3 feels overpowered, but maybe it's ok. See what others think.

'Advantage', 'during', 'opportunity'.




> *Aura of Inspiration*
> Beginning at 7th level, your explorers spirit and oath are projected from you. You and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you add your Charisma bonus to Intelligence checks.
> At 18th level the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.


Nice.




> *Discovered secrets*
> At 15th level you gain proficiency your choice of three of the following skills; Arcane, History, Investigation, Nature or Religion. You add your proficiency bonus to the chosen skills twice instead of once.


Like the Lore Bard/Knowledge Cleric. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.




> *Revelation*
> At 20th level you can temporarily unlock the mysteries of the universe. Three small stars come down to float around your body, and you take on the appearance of an alstal being for a time, your eyes glowing either a brilliant white or dazzling blue.
> Using your action, you undergo a transformation for 1 minute and gain the following benefits:
> You may double your movement speed when you move as a mist with your explorer's jaunt channel divinity.You gain truesight out to 60 feet from yourself.You gain three floating stars, a white, green and blue. Each of these stars may be used to cast a spell of a certain level in place of a spell slot. The white star can be used as a level 1 slot, the green as a level 3 slot, and the blue as a level 5 slot. If all three stars are expened before Revelation has been active for a minute, then revelation immediately ends.
> Once you have used this feature, you can't use it again until you complete a long rest.


This feels a little... lacklustre. Truesight is fine, double movement when using Explorer's Jaunt is a bit nothing-y, and free spell slots... I don't know. It fits the theme, but why 1/3/5? Kind of treading on the Sorcerer's toes a bit as well.

To be honest, this feature needs to be a damage-dealing combat ability. Something showy and explosive, not fiddly and confusing.

'Astral', 'expended'.

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## Amnoriath

1. The Tenets themselves are fantastic that strike a great balance between clarity and subjectivity. 
2. The spells are decent though it is a little odd that you have _Hallow_ instead of ones like _Teleportation Circle_, _Scrying_, or even _Legend Lore_. 
3. The Channel Divinity power fit very well but the second should maybe be simplified and clarified just a little bit. The Dash action qualification is odd and it doesn't describe what would happen when they would make an attack or use a spell. 
4. The aura is simple enough and useful.
5. Level 15 is a little redundant. At this point you are still relying on your Channel Divinity powers(aside from spells) to offer a battle strategy and thematically you haven't really discovered anything yet unless the DM gives it in a campaign. Either change this or the aura.
6. The capstone have features of its own, not ones that boost Channel Divinity powers. It is a once per day nova buff it should do more on its own.

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## Gnomes2169

> Spell list looks good. You've misspelled 'tenets', 'consequences', 'hypocrisy' and 'dispel', if you care about that sort of thing.


Yaaaaay, typos. >.< Fixed




> I like the first one. Once/day bonus action _Gaseous Form_ from level 3 feels overpowered, but maybe it's ok. See what others think.


Only reason it's bonus action is because _misty step_ (the spell it functions more like) is a bonus action. Limiting it to a character's walking speed keeps things like Aarakocra from abusing it with a good flight speed, and restricting it from being used with the dash action keeps it from being turned into an early _fly_ equivalent. I also sort of like the visual of the character turning into mist _just_ as an enemy's blow would hit them (so for 5 feet), turning into mist to hop between flying or floating platforms that they end up running across, and then misting up right into a caster or BBEG's face. You know... With the help of haste. Or two turns going by. Or something. 




> 'Advantage', 'during', 'opportunity'.


Typossssssssssss...




> Like the Lore Bard/Knowledge Cleric. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.


List slightly expanded just in case someone takes the highly-thematic Sage background and either Religion or History from the paladin list. 




> This feels a little... lacklustre. Truesight is fine, double movement when using Explorer's Jaunt is a bit nothing-y, and free spell slots... I don't know. It fits the theme, but why 1/3/5? Kind of treading on the Sorcerer's toes a bit as well.
> 
> To be honest, this feature needs to be a damage-dealing combat ability. Something showy and explosive, not fiddly and confusing.
> 
> 'Astral', 'expended'.


Changing the boost to Explorer's Jaunt (which was something that my sleep-addled mind though would be a _cool thing brooooo_), to something like advantage on attacks and disadvantage for enemies on saves would probably fit flashy and explosive a bit better. 

Slots are levels 1/3/5 because 3/4/5, or heaven forbid 5/5/5, would simply be too much. Extra slots have to be handled carefully, and while I'm fine with giving out an extra Destructive Wave, Banishing Smite or upcast anything else, I'm leery about tossing out extra high (for a paladin) level slots. I'd say that it's closer to the Wizard's arcane recovery, more because I haven't heard of anyone actually using their sorc points to make spell slots than anything else. 

Astral doesn't need to be capitalized for the same reason "heavenly," "hellish," "abberant," or "earthen." It's being used to describe appearance, not origin. And expended was fine when I checked it? 




> 1. The Tenets themselves are fantastic that strike a great balance between clarity and subjectivity.


Thank yah!



> 2. The spells are decent though it is a little odd that you have _Hallow_ instead of ones like _Teleportation Circle_, _Scrying_, or even _Legend Lore_.


Knew I was forgetting something at 4 in the morning. >_< _Scrying_ it is!



> 3. The Channel Divinity power fit very well but the second should maybe be simplified and clarified just a little bit. The Dash action qualification is odd and it doesn't describe what would happen when they would make an attack or use a spell.


See above why the dash action qualification is there, and making an attack now requires you to be physical (casting a spell does not... Unless it has somatic or material components, of course).



> 4. The aura is simple enough and useful.
> 5. Level 15 is a little redundant. At this point you are still relying on your Channel Divinity powers(aside from spells) to offer a battle strategy and thematically you haven't really discovered anything yet unless the DM gives it in a campaign. Either change this or the aura.


Oath of Discovery is much more focused on the "exploration" pillar than it is combat (which the base paladin kit is already exemplary at). It's why I gave them two "skill" features to work with, instead of directly applicable combat powers. The capstone does need to be more offensive, however...



> 6. The capstone have features of its own, not ones that boost Channel Divinity powers. It is a once per day nova buff it should do more on its own.


Agreed, that was another 4 in the morning decision. I'm strongly considering changing that particular bit of the capstone to advantage on attacks and disadvantage on enemy saves vs. the paladin's spells.

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## Ninja_Prawn

> Only reason it's bonus action is _because_ gaseous form is a bonus action.


Is that from some errata? My PHB says 1 action... I guess the fact that it's once/day makes it ok though.




> Slots are levels 1/3/5 because 3/4/5, or heaven forbid 5/5/5, would simply be too much. Extra slots have to be handled carefully, and while I'm fine with giving out an extra Destructive Wave, Banishing Smite or upcast anything else, I'm leery about tossing out extra high (for a paladin) level slots...
> 
> Astral doesn't need to be capitalized for the same reason "heavenly," "hellish," "abberant," or "earthen." It's being used to describe appearance, not origin. And expended was fine when I checked it?


...I was actually going to argue for _lowering_ the spell slots to 1/2/3...

And I only capitalized 'astral' because it was at the start of my sentence. You spelled it "expened" before. Granted, that could be a real word, but not one you'd want to use very often.

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## Gnomes2169

> Is that from some errata? My PHB says 1 action... I guess the fact that it's once/day makes it ok though.


Meant to say Misty Step there... >.<




> ...I was actually going to argue for _lowering_ the spell slots to 1/2/3...


Really? Huh. Any particular reason to nerf it like that? Remember, the slots can only be used to cast spells, so smiting with them isn't an option unless it's a spell smite, and they will only last for a minute regardless. Can't use them for much beyond smiting or healing, which you won't really be using level 1/2 slots on by level 20 unless you get desperate...

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## Amnoriath

> See above why the dash action qualification is there, and making an attack now requires you to be physical (casting a spell does not... Unless it has somatic or material components, of course).
> 
> Oath of Discovery is much more focused on the "exploration" pillar than it is combat (which the base paladin kit is already exemplary at). It's why I gave them two "skill" features to work with, instead of directly applicable combat powers. The capstone does need to be more offensive, however...
> 
> Agreed, that was another 4 in the morning decision. I'm strongly considering changing that particular bit of the capstone to advantage on attacks and disadvantage on enemy saves vs. the paladin's spells.


1. Eww, so you can't physically attack while this is active? Why don't you just eliminate the disadvantage on opportunity attacks and that you momentarily rematerialize to resolve an attack?
2. The problem is though is the bulk of your career is spent purely on base knowledge. It doesn't really gain any access to special knowledge such as languages, spells, or other various things that could be related in hooks. I am not saying it needs battle bonuses, maybe just a little versatility that says I actually discovered something, not just I know about it.
3. The capstone is now much better while still competitive.

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## Gnomes2169

> 1. Eww, so you can't physically attack while this is active? Why don't you just eliminate the disadvantage on opportunity attacks and that you momentarily rematerialize to resolve an attack?


Yeah, I think I'm going to do that... >.>



> 2. The problem is though is the bulk of your career is spent purely on base knowledge. It doesn't really gain any access to special knowledge such as languages, spells, or other various things that could be related in hooks. I am not saying it needs battle bonuses, maybe just a little versatility that says I actually discovered something, not just I know about it.


That is a good point, and solved rather easily by just giving them the ability to read and understand all languages at level 15 on top of the skills. Those ancient ruins and spirits haunting them need someone who can figure them out, after all.  :Small Tongue: 



> 3. The capstone is now much better while still competitive.


Glad you believe so!

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## Gnomes2169

So, been a few years, just going through ALL of my old threads at this point... and this one I actually updated _years_ ago without actually writing up the changes for you people in a post. So:
The level 5 oath spells were changed to Commune and Steel Wind Strike. The former because it's a way to _discover_ information, and the latter because this is a paladin and the fluff ability of teleporting and slamming your sword into something hard enough that it _explodes_ is suitably anime. Also, the oath generally doesn't have direct combat magic in the oath spells.The channel divinity was changed so that it's Turn the Arcane (unchanged) or Arcane Outpouring. The old misty-step-like weirdness is gone, now instead you can use your action to cast a Divination or Enchantment spell with a level equal to or less than your Proficiency bonus using your channel divinity. Because I want to make this a paladin that casts more spells instead of just purely using slots for smites and potentially out-of-combat healing.The aura and the original level 15 were merged, because giving Cha bonus to Int checks as an aura is a _pretty tame_ bonus, so getting a few proficiencies in some Int skills isn't exactly going to blow up the power charts.The level 15 is still named Discovered secrets, but now it gives you 1 wizard spell known and prepared at each spell level you know and learn. So you get to know a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc spell of your choice from the Wizard list... though you can only change the spells you know after leveling up. So it's kinda like getting another Oath spell at each level, though you can swap spells to one of the same level every once in a while.Text for the spell part of the Revelation capstone was changed to make it so that the "stars" can _only_ be used to cast spells of the specified levels. They are not slots, they can't be used to smite or upcast spells.

Annnnd that was it. Wew.

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## MrStabby

So I kind of love and hate this.

I love the theme, and to be honest the class largely delivers on the theme.  My worry is that it is a bit lacking in _bite. _ There is a lot more to the game than combat, in in a combat focussed session you might find youself feeling like you don't have a subclass, with the exception of arcane ourpouring that looks a bit much.

My concern is that I just don't get that excited by the implementation.  What can it do that others can't?  Whats its cool thing?  How would you sell this to somebody?  I can sell a vengeance paladin as doing loads of damage, some mobility features and being really agressive.  Ancients gets sold on magic resistance.  Devotion is great vs the classic enemies and if you ever need someone with a sky high to-hit bonus to crack open armoured enemies its great.  Conquest gets control.  Even the seemingly unpopular redemption Paladin gets some quite cool and useful protection mechanics.  This class to me feels its competing against eldritch knight, artificer, straight wizard (but especially bladesinger) and a number of multiclass options.  Why this, and not one of those?  I feel that Arcane outpouring is probably too good, but is also the major draw for the class.

My personal view is that granting spells known from other classes is not a great mechanic.  Its not really an objective thing, but I don't like it for a few reasons.  Firstly, you are stepping on another class's toes.  You are copying something they want... unless they don't actually want it in which case its bad.  Secondly you are probably doing it worse than the class you are taking it from - eldritch knight gets the same spells as the wizard but so much later and so fewer (when they are not cool anymore).  I would cite the spirit bard as a paricularly poor example - your special thing, your whole theme of creept divination and necromancy spells - your specialism, its just something you are worse at and behind other casters on.  It isn't that the abilities are bad or lacking in power but I personally don't find them cool.

On the other hand, its a really hard task to make this work.  I get divination spells (but less so enchantment) as a theme but how to deliver this is tough.  A lot can come from ritual casting (which would make sense as a kind of ability to have) but this is unexciting as if you really wanted it you could take the feat (and some overlap with warlocks book of ancient secrets).  And divination spells are rarely pumping out the combat power - some like see invisibility is could see being a good fit, and there are spells like faerie fire that aid discovery and "reveal the unseen" that might be a good fit, but generally this is going to be really hard work.

So I might ramble a bit.  My appologies if this next bit is poorly structured.

Wizard seems the closest fit to the class - if we are looking at pilfering spells and ideas.  That said, I think that looking at other classes is good too.  Warlock has a nice on-brand eldritch secrets thing going, bardic lore is a D&D staple, druidic lore as well might be worthy of discovery an a clerical overlap might mesh with dicovering secrets of the divine.

Arcane outpouring is potentially really powerful in niche circumstances.  So much of the wizard enchantment/divination spell list is shared with other classes that you are only going to get great value out of accessing the broader range of spells in those games where other players dont have casting that spell as their cool thing.  On the oher hand, its a free spell on a short restincluding some realy high level ones at game end.  A CD use to cast a level 6 spell is no joke.  This is what pains me - Otto's Iresistable dance, or mass suggestion, or trueseeing... they are all really, really great things to be able to cast multiple times per day (well, maybe true seeing is a bit more niche, but generaly casting more igh level spells per day than a wizard doesn't seem quite right).  On the other hand, you wait so long for this to feel special I think.  I think it might be worth also thinking about components - the way its phrased you can cast a 10min spell in one action and need not provide any components.  This is a realy nice boon for divination spells.  Why enchantment though?

Aura of Inspiration - I don't think this will blow anyone away, but it doesn't have to.  Some skills and expertise after bards and rogues got theirs - hardly game breaking.  And adding Cha to Int checks is very thematic but paladins are a bit mad and with so many feats being good for them, geting a high enough Int for you to actually be really good at these checks will slightly curtail what you can do.

Discovered secrets is OK, I guess.  I think that with picking up wizard spells at level 3 - including some that will be higher level than this grants and with wizard spells on the class list, that this will be unexciting.  I get that you can grab shield or silvery barbs, but is it enough to make it exciting?  It is also a bit unfair, but again - feats like fey touched and Eberron's aberant dragonmark can diminish the value of this.  This is also the point that the class realy feels like its stepping on the toes of the Eldritch knight. Now it can have more wizard spells of higher level than the EK can.

Revelation... I find really hard to judge.  The fluff is lovely.  Mechanicaly you get truesight which wil help casting some spells, a nice supporting ability.  Enemies having disadvantage on saves?  And you get a free spell of level 4, 5 and 3? And at this level you get you level 6 arcane outpouring spell as well?  Certainly you can become a bit of a barrage of spells.  Still, concentrtion and legendary resistance will keep it somewhat in line - that and not being able to blow the last aditional spell slot without losing the ability.  Still, an extra wall of force is not to be sniffed at and an aura of vitality at the end of a fight to heal the party back up a bit can be a nice way to finish at all levels... I _think_ this abiity is OK but its honestly hard to tell.  Typically I also find it a bit hard to care about balance when level 9 spells are in play - so your once a day ability must be truely over the top to compete.



I think other than arcane outpouring its reasonably well balanced, and has a nice mix of in and out of combat abilities.  I think the flavour meshes moderatly well with the mechanics - I just feel a lot of the features are not unique.  It feels like its just taking small chunks of the wizard class and tacking them on.  I worry it will feel more like a multiclass character than a cohesive whole.  Personally, I would love to see some interaction between the spellcasting and the paladining - advantages defending against creatures you scry on or bonus action casting to fuse your attacks and spellcasting.  Maybe even some more elements of non-magical knowlwdge - say another fighting style from any class?  Maybe empowering divine sense - if the class is all about discovery, then why not allow its archetypal discivery ability to be even more useful - say being able to be used as a bonus action and also giving advantage to the next attack on a discovered creature...  I guess I am tying to get past seeing it as paladin + discovery added on, and more like paladin with discovery woven together.  

Still, its late here and I am sleepy - so my appologies for my rambling comments.  I will try and come back with a clearer head to complete!

Edit: well coming back to this and reading with fresh eyes, it sounds unduly negative.  I think there is a lot of strong stuff here, and I don't really have problem with that - I think that there are personal aspects of how I like classes to work, either as a player, as a DM or as a player playing alongside the homebrew.  I think I should probably have stressed that a bit more.

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## Gnomes2169

Hey there, letting you know that I read this, but it's super late and I need to sleep.  :Small Sigh:  Will respond when I'm able!

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## Gnomes2169

Finally have time to respond, yaaaaaaay, and there's one thing I'd like to generally note: Most of the features designed for this subclass were made with the assumption that the Paladin's base combat chassis is... honestly, pretty much all you need for a competent (if not amazing) front-line warrior. So this oath was, conceptually, supposed to give your smitebot access to some exploration-pillar abilities... and I wanted to play a nerd paladin.  :Small Tongue: 

But with the redesign, a subtheme of actually using the spell slots you have for spellcasting was added as well. The paladin list has a _few_ okay spells for out-of-combat utility, but they are rather niche and aren't all that impressive, and this subclass is still meant to grant more out-of-combat options, hence the expanded spell list... but honestly, just adding ritual casting right off the bat and changing how the level 15 feature works would probably work out for the best. 

But anyway, let's go to the feedback itself!




> Wizard seems the closest fit to the class - if we are looking at pilfering spells and ideas.  That said, I think that looking at other classes is good too.  Warlock has a nice on-brand eldritch secrets thing going, bardic lore is a D&D staple, druidic lore as well might be worthy of discovery an a clerical overlap might mesh with dicovering secrets of the divine.


Well, that's a great point and now I'm feeling a bit dumb for not thinking about that.  :Small Sigh:  Hmmm... I think I'll have to take this into consideration when I'm redesigning the 15 feature. 




> Arcane outpouring is potentially really powerful in niche circumstances.  So much of the wizard enchantment/divination spell list is shared with other classes that you are only going to get great value out of accessing the broader range of spells in those games where other players dont have casting that spell as their cool thing.  On the oher hand, its a free spell on a short restincluding some realy high level ones at game end.  A CD use to cast a level 6 spell is no joke.  This is what pains me - Otto's Iresistable dance, or mass suggestion, or trueseeing... they are all really, really great things to be able to cast multiple times per day (well, maybe true seeing is a bit more niche, but generaly casting more igh level spells per day than a wizard doesn't seem quite right).  On the other hand, you wait so long for this to feel special I think.  I think it might be worth also thinking about components - the way its phrased you can cast a 10min spell in one action and need not provide any components.  This is a realy nice boon for divination spells.  Why enchantment though?


I chose Enchantment for this one specifically because I wanted there to be _some_ combat utility to the Channel Divinity (since one of the paladin CD options is ALWAYS combat related), and Enchantment has the Zone of Truth spell... but honestly, I'm not 100% sold on keeping it Enchantment with all of its save or lose spells. Abjuration has a few thematic combat-worthy spells (Alarm, Dispel magic (to get magic out of the way of your discoveries... it's tortured justification, I know), Nondetection, Pass without trace and the Protection spells), so it would be my choice for a swap should that prove necessary. 

Edit: I suppose it _could_ also be conjuration, given you could be summoning up spirits and guides to answer your questions/ using the magic to get to difficult to reach places? 

Also, you brought up a good point when you mentioned that the "discoveries" could be from _any_ class... do you think that opening this ability up to allowing you to cast any Divination and Enchantment/Abjuration (whichever I go with) spell, regardless of class access, would be too much? The Wizard list is pretty all-encompassing as it stands, but it doesn't have _everything_.

And good point on the components thing. I think I should probably add in that if a spell has components, you need to possess and/or provide those, but that its casting time becomes 1 action when cast in this way. 

Also, thoughts on adding Ritual casting at third level? It fits both the exploration focus and more spellcasting roles of the subclass, but I don't think many paladins get a level 3 feature on top of the channel divinity.




> Aura of Inspiration - I don't think this will blow anyone away, but it doesn't have to.  Some skills and expertise after bards and rogues got theirs - hardly game breaking.  And adding Cha to Int checks is very thematic but paladins are a bit mad and with so many feats being good for them, geting a high enough Int for you to actually be really good at these checks will slightly curtail what you can do.


Well, getting expertise and adding your Cha bonus to an Int check can give you a +17 even without the int bonus, which is a spectacular check, but yeah, it isn't the most insane of abilities. Again, just meant to help you (and your party members) with lore, finding things with Investigation, and other Int-based exploration activities. 




> Discovered secrets is OK, I guess.  I think that with picking up wizard spells at level 3 - including some that will be higher level than this grants and with wizard spells on the class list, that this will be unexciting.  I get that you can grab shield or silvery barbs, but is it enough to make it exciting?  It is also a bit unfair, but again - feats like fey touched and Eberron's aberant dragonmark can diminish the value of this.  This is also the point that the class realy feels like its stepping on the toes of the Eldritch knight. Now it can have more wizard spells of higher level than the EK can.


This critique is fair, though I'd point out that _every_ paladin is getting higher level spells than the EK, and theirs will generally be more useful of the martial caster role anyway.  :Small Tongue:  

This feature is also kinda complicated, in addition to just poaching spells... perhaps it could be simplified to something like: 
Granting an additional use of Channel Divinity, though that might make Arcane Outpouring truly over-the-top?Granting you and your allies an aura of magic resistance, since this level is typically a combat feature for Paladin subclasses as well?Casting a domain spell without a spell slot once per short (perhaps long) rest and a Cha bonus to Initiative?




> Revelation... I find really hard to judge.  The fluff is lovely.  Mechanicaly you get truesight which wil help casting some spells, a nice supporting ability.  Enemies having disadvantage on saves?  And you get a free spell of level 4, 5 and 3? And at this level you get you level 6 arcane outpouring spell as well?  Certainly you can become a bit of a barrage of spells.  Still, concentrtion and legendary resistance will keep it somewhat in line - that and not being able to blow the last aditional spell slot without losing the ability.  Still, an extra wall of force is not to be sniffed at and an aura of vitality at the end of a fight to heal the party back up a bit can be a nice way to finish at all levels... I _think_ this abiity is OK but its honestly hard to tell.  Typically I also find it a bit hard to care about balance when level 9 spells are in play - so your once a day ability must be truely over the top to compete.


Capstone abilities should be both _exciting_ and _good_, and I will complain about Devotion paladins, Fighters, Monks and Bards until the day I die. (Note, Fighters _do_ have a good capstone, but it's just not interesting to get a 4th attack as your ultimate thing... and they break the 5/11/17 level scaling of almost every other class's damage ramp in order to get that. Last extra attack should be at level 17 and the capstone should be something else... maybe just a flat bonus to proficiency to give them back the mastery/ consistency role they had in 2e? IDK) 

But anyway, glad that you like this one! Lets me know I did my job there.  :Small Tongue: 




> I think other than arcane outpouring its reasonably well balanced, and has a nice mix of in and out of combat abilities.  I think the flavour meshes moderatly well with the mechanics - I just feel a lot of the features are not unique.  It feels like its just taking small chunks of the wizard class and tacking them on.  I worry it will feel more like a multiclass character than a cohesive whole.  Personally, I would love to see some interaction between the spellcasting and the paladining - advantages defending against creatures you scry on or bonus action casting to fuse your attacks and spellcasting.  Maybe even some more elements of non-magical knowlwdge - say another fighting style from any class?  Maybe empowering divine sense - if the class is all about discovery, then why not allow its archetypal discivery ability to be even more useful - say being able to be used as a bonus action and also giving advantage to the next attack on a discovered creature...  I guess I am tying to get past seeing it as paladin + discovery added on, and more like paladin with discovery woven together.  
> 
> Still, its late here and I am sleepy - so my appologies for my rambling comments.  I will try and come back with a clearer head to complete!
> 
> Edit: well coming back to this and reading with fresh eyes, it sounds unduly negative.  I think there is a lot of strong stuff here, and I don't really have problem with that - I think that there are personal aspects of how I like classes to work, either as a player, as a DM or as a player playing alongside the homebrew.  I think I should probably have stressed that a bit more.


One of the reasons I didn't really try to tie class features to spellcasting or detection features in general was twofold:
Setting up and then striking will typically take multiple turns to accomplish, which is often a luxury that needs to be forced to work and ends up not being worth the setup. Devotion paladins feel this keenly, what with not making attacks until turn 2 of any boss that they turn their light on, which can end up causing them to take more damage because they didn't kill minions or engage with a dangerous ranged target on the first turn.They are still paladins, and they'll be using at least a few spell slots for smites.  :Small Tongue:  Also, they're paladins and Divine Sense is still basically a blank feature. You don't need it when you know you should use it, and typically the creatures it detects are going to be able to be discovered using context clues. I'd have to basically make it function like a psuedo, personal Fairie Fire to make it worth using, which _could_ be a good thing, but again runs into the setup problem. Could still be a decent option for a level 15 feature, though that still leaves Divine Sense functionally worthless for 14 levels. Eck.  :Small Sigh: 

Another fighting style probably wouldn't fit, since I'm leaning into the magical side of the Paladin with this one, though it could be a martial or mundane flavoring of discovery for sure. Probably more fitting for the Glory paladin that's striving for physical perfection, though (shame they didn't get a second one, come to think of it). As currently designed, most of the mundane knowledge is going to come from your Int skills and the aura.

And hey, no offense taken. I don't always come off the most diplomatic in my critiques either, so no feelings were hurt in the making of your comment and it's still more than welcome. I wouldn't have put this on a public forum if I didn't want feedback, positive or negative, after all.  :Small Big Grin:

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