# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 >  skill point and leveling question

## Zhepna

Hi

1) profession is a class skill for cleric but not for Church Inquisitor.

lf I have 3 lvl of cleric and gain a level of Church Inquisitor, can I still put a point in profession?

2) the dragon domain (SC 273) Granted Power is Add Bluff and Intimidate to your list of cleric class skills.

Can I wait until I'm about to level then cast substitute domain to gain the dragon domain and when I gain my level and then put skill point in bluff?

3) I heard about a rule that say you can wait until you level even if you have the experience required. Could I wait until I level, not gain my level, cast substitute domain, gain my level to put points into bluff?

Thanks for the information.

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## Venger

1) Yes, but it would cost double
2) Yes
3) Yes

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## Darg

2 & 3 depend on your DM. Leveling isn't meant to be a break point but a representation of naturally progressing your abilities through experience. As a DM I've allowed it once where the cleric had the spell up the entire previous level. However that's my prerogative because I prefer not gaming the rules so far. Just be careful, if you lose the spell and you've gone over your natural maximum ranks you no longer have those ranks you bought because your maximum is lower.

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## Sirperry

Most games I've played in use the houserule 'once a class skill, always a class skill'.
I recommend it as it simplifies things a bit.

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## Gruftzwerg

I try to explain the main difference here:

1) max (possible) ranks (invested) is determined, if the skill in question is a class skill for *any* of your classes. Even if it is sole a single lvl that you got in that class.

2) When you spend your skill points while the lvl up process, sole your *current* class determines which skills you get on a 1:1 basis and which one you have to pay 2:1. Being a class skill for your other classes doesn't help here.
(Note that Humans can bypass this with the Able Learner feat).

Hope this should clear everything up ;)

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## Crake

> Most games I've played in use the houserule 'once a class skill, always a class skill'.
> I recommend it as it simplifies things a bit.


I personally prefer to just use the pathfinder method of 1:1 points to ranks, max ranks = HD, and class skill just gives a +3 bonus.

I keep synergy bonuses, but they require either 2 points and class bonus, or 5 points

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## Darg

I like the 3.5 method. It allows for more low rank training to use at low DC. Many them still have value as you can take 10/20 to get some benefit. And it also lets the bard/rogue really feel like a skill monkey.

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## St Fan

There are plenty of tricks to turn a skill into a class skill. For human characters, 1 level in Human Paragon or the Able Learner feat can help a lot.

There's also the retraining rules. Put ranks in a class skill you won't need much, then retrain up to 4 of these ranks to another skill; as long as it was a class skill somewhere down the line (even if it isn't presently), you get the full ranks and not half of them.

You can also milk the Open Minded feat; take the cross-class skill ranks you need with the feat until you take a level in a class that has Profession as a class skill; then you can put real ranks in the skill and retrain the Open Minded feat, losing only the cross-class skill ranks linked to it.

Seriously, if you know what you're doing you can pretty much never waste skill ranks in a cross-class skill.

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## Duke of Urrel

> 2 & 3 depend on your DM. Leveling isn't meant to be a break point but a representation of naturally progressing your abilities through experience. As a DM I've allowed it once where the cleric had the spell up the entire previous level. However that's my prerogative because I prefer not gaming the rules so far. Just be careful, if you lose the spell and you've gone over your natural maximum ranks you no longer have those ranks you bought because your maximum is lower.


I am one of those dungeon masters who _don't prefer_ "gaming the rules."  My particular objection to steps 2 and 3 here is that you _can't predict_, as a character in-game, exactly _when_ you're going to level up _before_ it happens.  You only become aware of leveling up _after the fact_, for example when you discover that you can prepare or cast one more spell than you used to, when you discover that you can fight better or use some skills better than you ever could before, &c.  And so, when _I'm_ the dungeon master, you can't cast the Substitute Domain spell shortly before the expected leveling-up time in order to gain the benefits of another domain at the precise moment when the leveling-up occurs  because you don't know when this will happen until it happens, and after it happens, you're too late.

Of course, as others have pointed out, there are perfectly legal ways around this problem.

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