# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 >  Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XL

## Zaq

Welcome back to the *Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition*! This is round *forty*! That's as many as four tens! I can hardly believe it. 

The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 game element (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one levelwhere applicablein the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI or that otherwise use it as heavily as possible.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: *Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient.* The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

*Note: You must provide your own cake.

This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
*Cooking Time:* Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by *4:59 PM GMT - 9 on Monday, Sep 26, 2022* (1:59 AM GMT on Tuesday, Sep 27). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent oneI'll do my best, anyway. Judging is then encouraged to go as quickly as possible; if multiple judges volunteer, we'll set about a two-week window, but if we only get one judge, we'll try to wrap up as soon as possible after that judge presents scores. (I will admit that the deadline time may not be an exact science, but don't hide from me and we'll probably be cool.)*Kitchen:* Let's break this one down a bit.

*Spoiler: Let's talk about sources*
Show


*ALLOWED:* Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, *and other WotC-published 3.5 material.* (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)*ALLOWED:* Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.*ALLOWED:* Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.*NOT ALLOWED:* Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.*ALLOWED:* Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) _except_ for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.*NOT** ALLOWED:* 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.*ALLOWED:* Dragon Compendium and its errata.*NOT  ALLOWED:* Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.*ALLOWED:* Oriental Adventures, _including_ the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. _This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!_*NOT ALLOWED:* Pathfinder content, _regardless_ of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.*ALLOWED:* From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)*NOT ALLOWED:* Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.*NOT ALLOWED:* Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)*NOT ALLOWED:* Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.*NOT ALLOWED:* Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're _that_ kind of epic.*NOT ALLOWED:* Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.) However, as a specific exception for round 26, see below.*NOT ALLOWED:* For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.*ALLOWED:* Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that. 
*If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.*

*Character Creation:* 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, *Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned.* (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.Highlighted because of past issues: *It is not enough for your build to end with a level adjustment of +0. You must be +0 from start to finish. No using ANY build elements with a level adjustment above +0, even if they then get mitigated or reduced somehow.* However, note that a special exception is in place for round 26...*Speculation:* Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.*E6:* Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. *We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules*, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. *We will not use the "capstone feats"*; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. *You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook,* though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.*Presentation:* Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. *When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.* 
If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't _only_ list bonuses; *make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone*. You are allowed, but not required, to use this extremely spiffy tool that mattie_p cooked up (thanks, mattie_p!).*Spoiler*
Show

*Level*
*Class*
*Base Attack Bonus*
*Fort Save*
*Ref Save*
*Will Save*
*Skills*
*Feats*
*Class Features*

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


Code for the table: *Spoiler*
Show

[TABLE="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[TR]
[TH][B]Level[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Class[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Fort Save[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Ref Save[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Will Save[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Skills[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Feats[/B][/TH]
[TH][B]Class Features[/B][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6th[/TD]
[TD]New Class Level[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]+x[/TD]
[TD]Skills[/TD]
[TD]Feats[/TD]
[TD]New Class Abilities[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

*Contest houserules:* Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat). When taking Open Minded as an epic feat, any skill that has ever been a class skill for you (including through your class, your race, your feats, or similar game elements, though please don't muck around with retroactively making something stop being a class skill for some stupid reason) is a class skill when determining how the 5 granted skill points may be spent. All usual rules about HD-related skill caps apply. When taking Open Minded as a non-epic feat, treat it as normal; the class skills of the class you took at the level you gained Open Minded (plus race, feats, etc.) are your class skills for those skill points, similar to if Open Minded's skill points came straight from your class.*Judging guidelines:* The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5 (except in high-Originality rounds, wherein the maximum in Originality is 10). Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry). 
As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much: 
*Spoiler*
Show

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

*Skills*Allowed:
Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gainedGiving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisiteIncreasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs 

Not allowed:
Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation 
*Prereqs*Allowed:
Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqsScaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for isGiving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SINot giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below) 

Not Allowed:
"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereqTreating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes 
Other general things that are no longer allowed:
Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative workDeciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed. 

Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
*Dispute guidelines (NEW, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION):* Disputing is long, annoying, and emotional. It's also sometimes necessary, but it's often not actually something that makes everyone have more fun. Let's go into a little more detail here.
*Spoiler*
Show

*Do NOT* dispute to make an argument that goes fundamentally beyond what's in your write-up. It is the responsibility of the chef to make sure that the write-up is complete and contains their best arguments for what the build does and why it's awesome. If you didn't explain your tactics well or didn't spell out something that a judge misses, just do better next time. Don't drag it out after the fact.*Do NOT* dispute just to be clever or witty or cheeky. Please. We're all adults here and so I assume you know what that means. Don't treat the build as a setup and your oh-so-clever dispute as the punchline. It's not as funny as it is in your head. Trust me. I've been down that road.*Do NOT* dispute just to say "oh yeah, my bad, I missed that" or some equivalent. If you're not directly challenging the judge, save the commentary until after the reveal. I 100% get that the urge to respond to commentary is very strong, but type it out and sit on it for a while if you've gotta.*Do NOT* dispute just to try to wheedle more points out of the judge. Note that this is different from saying that the judge is being truly unfair or is being truly wrong by black-and-white RAW. A dispute is NOT the place to try to scrape together a few last quarter-points. If you didn't put it in your write-up, _that's on you._ This also means that a dispute is really not the place to have long back-and-forth tit-for-tat arguments. That's a surefire way to get people grumpy. It's a contest on a D&D board, guys, not the results of a federal election.*Do NOT* dispute to tear down another build. That's just plain not cool. If you entered the contest, it's not on you to judge the other builds.*DO* dispute if the judge is being blatantly biased by giving you a substantially different ruling on a build element compared to another chef who used the same build element in nearly the same way. (Note that _position_ in a build may affect if you're using that element in "nearly the same way" or not.) Please reserve this for the truly blatant examples. I mean it. Remember, it's the contestant's responsibility to make their best argument in the original write-up.*DO* dispute if the judge is actively going against the contest rules. Note that there are relatively few ways in which a judge can go against contest rules (we intentionally give very wide discretion to our judges), but examples include truly breaking One Mistake One Penalty, penalizing just because of number of sources of (legal) material, and so on.*DO* dispute if the judge is clearly ignoring unambiguous RAW. Note that this is for unambiguous RAW; if the RAW is shady and you're making an argument that isn't completely clear and that it wouldn't be strange for a GM to frown on, _the judge has every right to frown on it as well._ (You generally know when you're indulging in shady RAW. Be mature about this.) But if the judge is saying you didn't hit a prereq that you clearly did hit (and included in your write-up!), saying you can't do something that the plain text of the ability says you can do, or anything like that, by all means, call 'em out.*Do NOT* dispute if the judge doesn't agree with your interpretation of ambiguous RAW. Yes, this is a retread of the previous bullet point; this is that important. If you're relying on ambiguous RAW, it's on you to lay out clearly why it should work the way you want it to work. Again, be mature and act in good faith: you really know when you're pushing things like this. If they don't like it, they don't like it. Move on.

*Disputing is a privilege, not a right. In the Chair's sole discretion, disputes that do not meet these guidelines and/or that do not seem to be offered in good faith may be suppressed. The Chair reserves the right to choose to post all, some, or none of a dispute if appropriate.*


*Other bits and bobs:* If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers. 


This round's secret ingredient: 
*POISON!*
 

Your dish must use and showcase the use of poison. Natural/racial poison is acceptable, as is magical poison, mundane poison, poison crafting, etc. It is generally going to be in your best interest to explain in detail where your poison comes from. 


_Allez Optimizer!_



*The Builds:*
Coming soon!


*Spoiler: Contest History*
Show


Round 4: Knight
Round 5: Ninja
Round 6: Racial Paragon Classes
Round 7: Hexblade
Round 8: Shugenja
Round 9: Swashbuckler
Round 10: Crusader
Round 11: Soulknife
Round 12: Factotum
Round 13: Prestige Classes
Round 14: Mountebank
Round 15: Sorcerer
Round 16: Dragon Shaman
Round 17: Lurk
Round 18: Paladin
Round 19: Scout
Round 20: Incarnate
Round 21: Shadowcaster
Round 22: Dragonmarks
Round 23: Fighter
Round 24: Pets
Round 25: Warlock
Round 26: Monsters
Round 27: Ardent (exhibition round)
Round 28: Rogue
Round 29: Signature Spells
Round 30: Any Prior Ingredient
Round 31: Ranger
Round 32: Tanking
Round 33: Psychic Warrior
Round 34: Flight
Round 35: Binder
Round 36: Skill tricks
Round 37: Barbarian
Round 38: Fire
Round 39: Bard


*Spoiler: Way Old Stuff (2012 and earlier; Amechra's run as Chair)*
Show

Round 1: Divine Mind
Round 2: Monk
Round 3: Marshal

----------


## Zaq

Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, *THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES*. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required. (*That said, did you see the new dispute guidelines? Those ARE rules, so please go read them. And I'm even going to be better about enforcing them this time.*)

*Recommendations:*
 Double-check ALL of your prereqs. *Every. Single. One.* Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also _insanely_ dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!Be memorable. Remember that we've all seen these ingredients used at least once before. What makes you different?

So poison can come from a lot of places. Maybe you can craft it. Maybe you can magically generate it (how appropriate that we're all Vizziniing the same thing here). Maybe you have it as a trait of your form, or maybe you have a poisonous pet. Maybe you're better than anyone else at spreading it to a whole bunch of people. Maybe you're the best at poisoning one person without being seen, or maybe it doesn't even matter if you're seen or not because your poison is so strong. There's a lot of ways to go, so dig in and explain what it is you're doing! Have fun, team!

----------


## Zaq

By the way, since this is round XL, I was extremely tempted to make "size" or "size increases" the ingredient, but I feel like there's really just not enough variety there to actually be the whole ingredient. I seriously considered it, though.

----------


## Venger

This looks very interesting. In to cook.

----------


## The Viscount

How very intriguing. Thinking about this one.

----------


## AvatarVecna

Debating building.

----------


## loky1109

Yeah! I actually have some ideas. )

----------


## H_H_F_F

Hmmm. It's a maybe from me. I have some nebulous thoughts, we'll see if they go anywhere interesting which isn't just retreading old ground.

----------


## Inevitability

Thought of an interesting trick and realized partway through that I'd already used it in a 2015 contest. Still, that contest never got judged and I got quite a different plan in mind for this, so it's _probably_ fine?

----------


## Zaq

> Thought of an interesting trick and realized partway through that I'd already used it in a 2015 contest. Still, that contest never got judged and I got quite a different plan in mind for this, so it's _probably_ fine?


I won't tell anyone if you won't.

----------


## MinimanMidget

I already used my best idea for this, and I'm struggling to come up with another one. Unless inspiration strikes, I'll tentatively plan to judge.

----------


## loky1109

I already have two stabs. Need just write them.

----------


## Zaq

Anyone still cooking? I have a few entries but I admit I was expecting a couple more. Go ahead and sound off and let me know if an extension would let you get something in (and, if so, how long you need)!

----------


## MinimanMidget

I have the outline of a build, I'd need a few days to get it ready to submit.

----------


## Zaq

Sure, we can make that work.

----------


## daremetoidareyo

My stupid entry is in!

----------


## Zaq

0123456789




> *Modayn Mo'problums
> 
> *Neutral Warforged Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1
> 
> 
> *Spoiler: ABILITIES*
> Show
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Zaq

1234567890




> *Naa'it Sabes, the Acidic Arachnid*
> *TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider Druid 5 / Planar Shepherd 1*
> 
> 
> *Spoiler: Ability scores*
> Show
> 
> Base array: 8/14/14/16/16/8 (32 point buy)
> Racial modifiers: -10 strength, +4 dexterity, -4 intelligence, -8 charisma
> ...

----------


## Zaq

0123456789




> Najka Valukar
> NE Half-Drow Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1
> 
> *Spoiler: Introduction*
> Show
> 
> 
> There was a fragment of tale Najka heard once. She hadnt caught the start of it, since the humans voices hadnt carried that far from their campfire, and the end had been lost when her party attacked them. 
> fed nothing but poison, the human had whispered, so when she grew into a beautiful woman, her kiss would kill
> ...

----------


## Zaq

If you know, you know.




> *Nyx: the Woman in Black*
> *Spoiler: Anatomy of a Murder*
> Show
> 
> 
> Against her own nature, Nyx got to the Sterngate lightning rail station early. It wasnt every day she had her assassins license exam. 
> 
> Of course, the train was late.
> 
> ...


_Chair's note: Continued next post!_

----------


## Zaq

_Chair's note: continued from previous post!_




> *Spoiler: epic feats*
> Show
> 
> 
> 1 wanderers diplomacy
> 2 poison expert:contact
> 3 poison master:contact
> 4 great fortitude
> 5 poison healer
> ...

----------


## Zaq

0123456798




> *Sabina Daisy Atis*
> 
> 
> 
> *Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray
> Lawful Good
> Fighter 2/Monk 2*
> 
> str 20, dex 16, con 17, int 8, wis 16, cha 6
> ...

----------


## Zaq

1234567890





> With the All Worldstone gone, we cannot return life to the Sanctuary. And fate has yielded its reward: a new world to call home. We live among its people now, hiding in plain sight, but watching over them in secret, waiting, protecting. I have witnessed their capacity for courage, and though we are worlds apart, like us, there's more to them than meets the eye. I am Master Necromancer Xul, keeper of the balance, and I send this message to any surviving Priests of Rathma taking refuge among the worlds. We are here. We are waiting.
> 
> *TN Human Necromancer 6*
> 
> *Spoiler: Tables*
> Show
> 
> *Stats*
> 	Abilities
> ...

----------


## Zaq

012345679




> *Spoiler: Zashi*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> Race: Anthropomorphic Huge Viper [Large]
> Class: Monstrous Humanoid 3 | Binder 3
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Zaq

0123456789




> *Spoiler: It looks like this.*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler: Or this.*
> Show
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Zaq

And that's the lot! Not even Rasputin could survive all eight of these poisoners. Judges, do your thing!

----------


## Venger

What a great looking round.

----------


## Inevitability

And to think I expected my build to be one of the weirder ones...

----------


## MinimanMidget

> And to think I expected my build to be one of the weirder ones...


Yeah, this round ended up being pretty crazy. My sympathies for whoever judges.

----------


## loky1109

Table!

*	 	Name	*
*	Alignment / Race	*
*	Class Levels	*
*	Chef	*
*	Total	*
*	Place	*

 	Modayn Mo'problums	
	TN Warforged
	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1




 	Naa'it Sabes	
	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider
	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1




 	Najka Valukar	
	NE Half-Drow
	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1




 	Nyx, pt. 2	
	CE Human
	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1




 	Sabina Daisy Atis	
	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray
	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2




 	Master Necromancer Xul	
	TN Human
	Necromancer 6




 	Zashi	
	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper
	Binder 3




 	Clever Girl Zhu	
	CN Athach
	-









> And to think I expected my build to be one of the weirder ones...


This is my line!

----------


## daremetoidareyo

> And to think I expected my build to be one of the weirder ones...


They start weird and continue being weird until they finish weird

----------


## Inevitability

Do we have a judge?

----------


## daremetoidareyo

> Do we have a judge?


I think not

----------


## Inevitability

As there still isn't a judge here, I'm offering to withdraw my entry and judge, but I'd like to see at least _someone_ else offer to judge the Monster Mash, Iron Chef , Junkyard Wars or Villainous Competition (whatever they don't have an entry in!), because all of these need judges as well. If it helps, they all have a relatively low (5-6) number of entries.

Ideally, multiple of those get judged, but I'm willing to judge here as long as one person steps forward.

----------


## loky1109

I'll try to start judging IC this Sunday.

Upd: Aaaand. My *HM* vote for Naa'it Sabes.

----------


## H_H_F_F

Sorry guys. I've had basically 0 free time lately, and just is it has freed up for a week... _recent events_ leeched away all my willpower and motivation for pretty much everything.

----------


## Inevitability

*Spoiler: Judging criteria*
Show

All scores start at 1.

*Originality*
First, let's see what you're cooking with. Up to *1 point* for originality of your classes and *0.5 points* for your race. For class, do you avoid obvious shoe-ins like druid, poison use rogue, shaper psion, and ninja? Do you pick a barely-used base class, or even work your way into something more prestigious? For race, human and strongheart halfling give you 0 points, anything with solid racial support (elves, dwarves) or obvious poison synergy gets 0.25, everything else gives 0.5.

Feats are a big part of E6 building and I want to showcase them, so *1.5 points* for their originality: do you just pick filler and straightforwardly good stuff, or are you exploring some more obscure feat chain here? As a rule of thumb, for each feat that truly wows me you're guaranteed 0.25 here. Obviously it has to meaningfully interact with your build to count, but I don't see that coming up.

The remaining *1 point* is for your overall fluff, description, and feel. Do I feel like I'm looking at something truly unique here, or is it just the five required story beats thrown in a blender? You can't write 'character build' without character!

*Power*
What's the in-combat potential of your character, assuming encounters against 'typical' foes (weak humanoids with martial class levels, a big brute, a mobile caster with meatshields). Can you contribute to an acceptable extent against each of those? *1.5 points* if you do.

Out of combat, besides crafting/harvesting poison, how can you contribute to the party? Up to 1 point here. In general, if you fulfill one of the big roles (face, trapfinder, scout, healer, utility mage), that's *0.5 points* guaranteed. If you fit in another of those boxes, or have enough random odds and ends to convince me that you'll typically be useful, that's another *0.5 points*.

Can you overcome the classic issues that poison-users face? Constructs and undead are the big points here, but elementals, oozes, and plants will also be looked at (if you rely on crafting poison and have a good modifier, I'm going to say you can conceivably brew up something for oozes and plants specifically). Up to *1.5 points* for mitigating this major weakness.

Builds that primarily use high-tier classes will be judged more harshly than those that don't. A weak wizard is less powerful than a strong monk, even if the wizard can do anything the monk can do.

*Elegance*
*1 point* for avoiding multiclass penalties.

*1 point* if your build works out on the _mechanical_ level. Do you meet each prereq? Do you correctly list your skills? Are you interpreting the rules in a way that's just straight-up, indefensibly wrong? An error that only impacts minor aspects of your build earns you a penalty in this section only, something that prevents the entire build from working results in 0 elegance.

*1 point* if your build works out on the _meta_ level. Will the DM permit it? Do you rely on controversial interpretations of the rules, on shenanigans like 1d43 scorpion whips, or on variant rules that not every campaign might use? Worshipping elder evils for feats, cityscape's social class, and faustian pacts all get you points deducted here.

*1 point* if your build works out on the _game_ level. Could your character, realistically and reliably, advance from level 1 to epic while meeting all the fluff requirements, alignment shifts, and template acquisitions? Straight up 0 points here if your build requires some spells above 3rd level, _even when monsters with the required innate casting exist in-game_: this is E6 and avoiding its constraints is nothing if not inelegant.

*UoSI*
From what level can you actually, reliably, make use of poison in a notable way? A standard duskblade build that squeezes in Master of Poisons as its fifth epic feat will not have my sympathy, no matter how many cool things you do with it afterwards. Let's say level 1-3 gives you *1 point*, level 4-6 half that, and epic levels get zero points.

How much do the poisonous parts of your build do for you? If I removed the poison from your build, how much would your character suffer? Up to *1 point* to actually making it an integral part of your strategy, rather than a little bonus that can be removed with no further cost.

How much do the non-poison parts of your build synergize with the poison ones? Are you investing resources to make your poison better, directly and indirectly? Mostly to counterbalance casters, I'll be looking for _meaningful sacrifices_ here: a cleric can fill all of their spell slots with poison-related stuff, but that's less of a build decision than, say, feats and class features. Up to *1 point*.

(The above two criteria are a bit similar so to give some examples: a bog-standard wizard 6 who invests all of their feats in making poison would score really high on the second point, but low on the first: they focused their build around poison, but it still fails to be the most important part of them. On the contrary, a druid with a venomfire fleshraker is getting a TON out of poison, but isn't actually dedicating build resources to it, and thus has the opposite problem)

Lastly, do you do anything really cool with poison? Do you have a truly unique approach to the concept as a whole, or is it just more of the 'craft nasty stuff, apply nasty stuff, hit people' that any rogue can do? *1 point* to be gained here.



i'll judge faster if more people offer to judge elsewhere

----------


## loky1109

> Sorry guys. I've had basically 0 free time lately, and just is it has freed up for a week... _recent events_ leeched away all my willpower and motivation for pretty much everything.


I think we could manage it.
Real life goes first. Take care of yourself.

----------


## Inevitability

Alright judgement is upon y'all or whatever

seriously though.

*Spoiler: Modayn Mo'problums (13)*
Show

*Originality (3)*
Druid is pretty obvious as far as poison-using classes go, but any E6 build that can incorporate a prestige class is original in my book *(+0.5)*. Warforged is one of the easier ways to get poison immunity, so I kind of expected it too, but it's no human. *(+0.25)*

Your feats don't consistently impress me. Three pickings of Extra Slot make it seem like you ran out of ideas, Stable Footing is oddball but it doesn't seem to _do_ all that much for you (how often do you want to wade into the enemy-filled Entangle zones?). Necropolis Born and Eldeen Plantgrafter are the winners here, as is the ultra-obscure Spellbinder. Everything else together gets you the final 0.5, for a total of *(+1.25)*.

There's no real character here, save for a vague focus on forests. *(+0)*

*Power (3.25)*
You're a druid without wild shape, spontaneous summoning, or one of the big animal companions. In return, you've obtained a slight AC bonus, some bonuses in forests, and a fire elemental. I'm pretty comfortable calling that a negative trade-off. That said, those AoEs you can magic up look nightmarish, so even if your focus is narrow, I acknowledge how strong you are in your element. *(+1)*

Out of combat, you're again less capable than a regular druid would be. You can still serve as a fine healbot, or dig up some magic to help out with a puzzle or obstacle, but crippled druid levels alone aren't enough to get a full score here. *(+0.5)*

Your plan against constructs and undead is... Flash Frost Entangles that reduce speed, without any of the poison/fatigue shenanigans. That's a solid level of BFC, but it's _only_ BFC, and incorporeal undead can basically ignore all of it. Elementals are also a bit of an issue, especially if they fly or have earth glide, and a few oozes will dissolve your plants with a touch. Going to be generous and give *(+0.75)*.

*Elegance (2.25)*
No multiclass penalties. *(+1)*

Your submission feels slightly incomplete. A bunch of class features, even relevant ones, are unlisted. Fengut, which seems to be an exclusive sorc/wiz spell, appears on your spell list without explanation. You also have to select a climate type if your Favored Environment is forest, which you fail to do. Speaking of Favored Environment, I'm unconvinced that you can take it as a non-ranger, even if you obtain Favored Enemy somehow. *(+0.25)*

Here's the thing: your build makes a _very_ broad assumption about how entangle works. Yes, the spell says that local plants _might_ affect the effect. It doesn't say your pet hallucinogens _will_ grow in relevant numbers, or how far they'll extend from your body (assuming you're including yourself in the area at all), or that haphazardly throwing hot water on a living plant is at all equivalent to carefully steeping ground and dried leaves.

Even if your DM is crazy enough to allow the central trick, can you guarantee access to a variety of highly rare plants? You don't just enter Landforged Walker and instantly obtain your botanic perils of choice: you select a terrain and then grow unspecified plants native to it. Eldeen Plantgrafter similarly requires you to have access to a number of rare fungi and trees, which your campaign might not include.

*UoSI (4.5)*
You have some quasi-poisonous options early on, and probably some obscure spells not listed on your sheet, but big poison magic doesn't come until level 5, and your trick has to wait until level 6. You're not _without_ poison at low levels, but I wouldn't call it your best use of an action until quite a while later. *(+0.5)*

Poison is an integral part of what you do and how you do it. *(+1)*

You have clearly expended significant resources to make your core concept work, and even where you're boosting Entangle moreso than poison, it still benefits your poisons in a straightforward way. *(+1)*

Your approach to poisons (hostile tea ceremony) is unique and noteworthy. *(+1)*


*Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes (25)*
Show

Perfect build, obtaining max points in all four categories plus a fifth, secret one.

In unrelated news, I retract my submission.


*Spoiler: Najka Valukar (13.75)*
Show

*Originality (2.75)*
A level of cleric is the barest sprinkle of seasoning on the bland fare of druidhood. *(+0.25)* Half-Drow is on the obscure end of mainstream, but if you're doing a poison build it's not exactly mind-blowing to see. *(+0.25)*

Your feats are so-so. Lolth's Caress is interesting, as are Blessed of Vulkoor and the Poison+Smiting Spell combination, but the remaining bits are all pretty straightforward goodstuff. *(+0.75)*

A solid bit of fluff, more suggestive than entralling, but successful in making me feel like this is more than a tier 1 caster dipping into another. *(+0.5)*

*Power (3)*
Not a reason you lost points, but why take the level of cleric at 5th? I get that you take 4 levels of druid first, to get the scorpion, but why delay the final level? Do you really think the domains are more useful than 3rd-level spells and Wild Shape?

Anyway, if everything goes well you're hitting people with a weapon, two poison doses, and a spell. The issue is action economy: setting up a smiting spell and hitting someone with it takes two turns, and the smite sticks around for only one minute; I feel like a poison spell into a poisoned weapon attack is more efficient, without bringing smiting spell into it at all.

On the plus side, Lolth's Caress + Crystal Scorpion Venom is _nasty_, and you're perfectly set up to exploit it... but it again takes two turns. Wild Shape, again, a turn to set up before you can beat face, and the cleric dip makes you miss out on an use. I'm just not seeing a character here that can act swiftly: having a list of prepared spells would be helpful. Ultimately, when I ask myself whether you are going to outshine a regular 6th-level druid, I'm inclined to say 'no'. *(+0.5)*

You have a daily use of wild shape and solid perceptive skills, which I'm gonna say qualifies you as a scout. You also got random bits of druid magic and the early part of the cleric list. Still, you don't really improve on what your base classes naturally gain here. *(+0.75)*

If anything immune to poison shows up, you can send a bear at it, or poorly rebuke undead, but given the power you were cooking with I feel a little unimpressed here. *(+0.75)*

*Elegance (3.75)*
The favored class of half-drow protects you from XP penalties. *(+1)*

Technically, Master of Poisons doesn't qualify you for Poison Expert and Poison Master, as it simply gives the effect of Poison Use without providing the ability itself. *(+0.25)*

Nothing here that'd make a DM throw books at your head, but I'd like to get a bit of a clearer picture of the spells that you plan on channeling. *(+0.5)*

Seems like a straightforward, practical character to play. *(+1)*


*UoSI (4.25)*
You have a venomous animal companion from level 1 on. *(+1)*

Poison interacts with your combat routine in various meaningful ways. *(+1)*

You can, on the face of it, apply poison through magic, you can send in your animal companion to poison people... and yet it's often impractical to apply, and I wonder how often your in-combat turns will consist of firing off an Entangle or summoning a bear. *(+0.5)*

"Get an animal companion and harvest its venom" has been done, but you build on that to eventually apply two doses of poison in a single attack. *(+0.75)*


*Spoiler: Nyx (11.25)*
Show

*Originality (3.25)*
Rogue is the single most obvious class to go for. Factotum makes sense in a hindsight-is-2020 sort of way, as does chameleon... but I wouldn't have predicted them, have some points *(+0.75)*. Boring ole human, on the other hand, is something I look a lot less favorably upon. *(+0)*

Fiendish Legacy is new to me, but seems a bit redundant with your casting. A lot of those other feats are also pretty common. Still, I like it when people go all in on some feat chain in E6, and you certainly do that, so have *(+0.5)*.

You've straight-up written an entire short story to go with the build. Respectable. *(+1)*

*Power (2)*
Is this a flurry build? The natural weapons suggest so, but your only per-hit damage bonus is poison, and your attack bonus is in the gutter (no Multiattack, +3 BAB, 10 strength). Is it a tripper? Then where's the combat reflexes? Iaijutsu Focus abuser? Perhaps, but that's two or three d6s of damage, requires flat-footed foes, and eats your move action for draws. A straightforward poison user? Even that's an issue, because you have no way to quickly apply it once the first dose has worn off. You put a lot of emphasis on Haste, but it's actually not great for you: even if you get the buff applied and manage to Full Attack something, your second weapon hit won't have any poison, strength bonus, or sneak attack added on. One gets the impression you're an assassin because anything that fights back is too much trouble.

That said, out of combat you're a potent face with all the useful utility to be found on low-level caster lists. *(+1)*

What's your plan for Elementals? Constructs? _Undead_, god forbid? Outside of minimal casting, which you don't elaborate on, I'm not seeing anything.

*Elegance (3)*
No multiclass penalties. *(+1)*

Your build stub says you're a human paragon. Your build table says you're a martial rogue, your saves suggests something that grants high Will, your sources only list rogue, and your writeup seems to imply both. Also, if you're a martial rogue, as I ended up assuming, you're short a bonus feat. Enough of a mess for me to give zero points for mechanics.

If getting a free feat from a flaw is worth -1 elegance, getting two free feats from an elder evil shouldn't be any less.

No major issues for playing this ingame, you even include a clever trick to ensure access to spell scrolls. *(+1)*

*UoSI (3)*
Poison comes online at level 4. *(+0.5)*

I hesitate to say poison is what makes you viable, but it's certainly your main source of in-combat damage (outside of perhaps Iaijutsu Focus). *(+1)*

I can see the logic in going the natural weapons route to deliver more poison attacks, but you only drop 2-3 feats on poison, with useful spells as an afterthought. *(+0.25)*

I like the visual of launching poisoned natural weapons with Blood Wind. Outside of that, I got nothing. *(+0.25)*




*Spoiler: Sabina Daisy Atis (11.5)*
Show

Well, this build sure looks... anthro-sting!!! get it like interesting

*Originality (3.75)*
Anthropomorphic terrestrial stingray. *(+0.5)* I'm not going to reward two levels in two dip classes with a full point of originality, but monk is a genuine surprise, so have *(+0.75)*.

Barbed Stinger, Multigrab, Spear of Doom, Hold the Line, Snatch Arrows? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here to wow me. *(+1.5)*

How did the stingrays learn to walk the earth? What motivates their fishy brains? What made one reject its base animal impulses, and turn its flat face to Lawfulness and Goodness? These questions are not answered.

*Power (2.25)*
Your poison DC is decently high (though it doesn't key off of HD, just RHD, and is thus two points lower), and its effect is very nasty. You got good saves, evasion, and snatch arrows. Movement is a weak point here, as your speed is on the low side (arguably only 20 ft.). A bigger issue is the fact that, even when terrestrially adapted, you're still aquatic and dependent on water. Given that you want to use thrown weapons, you're probably not planning for an aquatic campaign... so how are you not suffocating? Still, if you can get up close with the enemies, they're going to be in trouble. *(+1)*

Out of combat, you contribute basically nothing.

Against poison-immune foes, you can serve as an okay hands-free grappler that keeps the foes from getting to the casters, or maybe frustrate their approach with ranged pin... but elementals and constructs aren't exactly known for wearing clothes. Immobilizing a single enemy just doesn't cut it, especially when that enemy might be made out of fire, or incorporeal, or acidic. *(+0.25)*

*Elegance (1)*
I could talk about a lot of things here. The multiclass XP penalties you almost definitely incur. The difficult relationship between being Exalted good and using ability-damaging poison. The fact that Spear of Doom probably doesn't work with Hold the Line. However, none of that matters, because anthropomorphic animals from outside the MM have no listed LA, and cannot be used as PCs. This disqualifies the central part of your build and results in an automatic minimum elegance score. (I'm not sure if a score of 0 is allowed in this specific competition, but if so, I'm assigning that instead)

*UotSI (4.5)*
Poison from level 2 on. *(+1)*

Poison is core to the strategy. *(+1)*

You got feats that exploit your poison's nauseating effect, feats that exploit its delivery method, that straight-up strengthen it, and that combo to let it become a near-total lockdown. *(+1)*

Ultimately, 'have a poisonous natural attack and hit people with it' isn't reinventing the wheel, but the Ranged Pin trick is neat. *(+0.5)*



*Spoiler: Xul (14)*
Show

*Originality (3.75)*
Diablerie Necromancer *(+1)*. No points for human, though.

The undead creation feats alone are surprising enough for me to put *(+1.5)* here.

The barest vestiges of fluff. *(+0.25)*

*Power (2.75)*
Well, you're creating some very souped-up undead or blowing up corpses, and while there's a few question marks in acquiring and transporting the corpses (you can't _quite_ assume you'll always have access, but it's close), things seem pretty well-covered on that front. Your spell slots aren't exactly plentiful either, though relying mostly on a low-level spell helps. I do feel like the undead are a bit underwhelming when you're not actively getting them blown up, though. *(+1)*

Out of combat, you can... make knowledge checks, I guess? *(+0.25)*

Poison isn't the biggest part of this build, but you still dislike seeing it go vs immune foes. Your spell pool doesn't have the width to deal with something like a ghost or construct very efficiently. I guess you have some okay blasting, though. *(+0.5)*

*Elegance (5)*
No multiclass penalties. *(+1)*

Mechanically I have questions, but they aren't questions your build could have avoided. *(+1)*

No issues. *(+1)*

Taking this from level 1 to epic should go smoothly. *(+1)*

*UoSI (2.5)*
Poison is available from level 4 on. *(+0.5)*

The impact of poison dagger on the build is minimal. Yes, you are in theory inflicting some constitution damage with Poison Dagger, but let's face it, you could do just fine hanging back and animating stuff: going into melee is actively antisynergistic with your undead meatshields. *(+0.25)*

The build helps out its poisonous component in minor ways. Knowledge Devotion adds to attack rolls with the poisonous dagger, and Fearsome Necromancy adds a save-or-be-shaken on top of it. *(+0.5)*

Poisoned weapons are the easy way to fulfill the concept, but at least yours is created by magic. *(+0.25)*


*Spoiler: Zashi (13.25)*
Show

*Originality (3)*
I'm sure some binders can work with poison, but it sure doesn't quickly come to mind. *(+1)* Similarly, full points for the anthro huge viper. *(+0.5)*

Most of your feats are pretty standard for AoO fishers. Still, the flanking subfocus and Clever Opportunist earn you points here. *(+0.5)*

No points for fluff. *(+0)*

*Power (2.75)*
Nine AoOs a round and 15 ft. reach make you a pain to get up to and a pain to get past. I do question your ability to actually _get_ in the front, as you have 20 ft. speed and no special movement options, which also makes Dance of Death a lot less powerful than it'd normally be. Are you going to full action run, just to position yourself t1? At least once you're in melee you can reliably force flanks with sky-high tumble and Adaptable Flanker. That said, anything ranged is a huge problem, though flight is at least mitigated by your climb speed and Spit Venom.

Another issue is DR: even low amounts of DR can already negate all damage from your bite, and with it the poison. Against those foes, you're exclusively on crowd control duty, though you're admittedly still quite good at that. *(+1)*

I don't feel too good about your out-of-combat prowess. Despite good perceptive skills and alternate movement you're not really a scout: stealth is low, trapfinding is nonexistent, and if you encounter trouble you can't outrun it. Being a watchmen or lie detector isn't _useless_, but often you'll be relegated to the sidelines. *(+0.25)*

Undead will at least get hit by Golden Ice, but constructs? Elementals? Plants? You can hit them a few times with a bite attack, but 1d4+1 is not a lot of damage! Large and In Charge only gets you so far, especially with your middling strength. *(+0.5)*

*Elegance (3.25)*
No multiclass XP penalties. *(+1)*

Skill points are weird around 4th and 5th level: minor penalty. Improved Binding requires 4 Intimidate ranks, which you lack. *(+0.25)*

I'm also sceptical that being a humanoid snake qualifies you for extended reach, especially as you seem to want to use it with a bite. _Maybe_ the snake-neck counts as tentacle-like, but a DM would be well within their rights to refuse. *(+0.5)*

You tried to double-dip and get Touch of Golden Ice along with your poison. I have no issue with Neutral characters using poison, and I'm even willing to let Good ones slide if the fluff is okay... but Exalted Good? Realistically, you lose a solid chunk of your powers the first time you bite something. *(+0.5)*

*UoSI (4.25)*
Poison is part of your gameplan from level 3 on. *(+1)*

You're definitely using poison as a core part of your strategy. *(+1)*

The non-poison parts of your build are a fairly standard big scary AoO-fisher, which helps out the poison remarkably well. *(+1)*

Nothing really unique in the way you use the SI, a poison bite with spit venom for minimal variety. *(+0.25)*


*Spoiler: Zhu (13)*
Show


*Originality (3.5)*
Athach Athach. *(+1.5)*

Feats are pretty standard for something that focuses on poison, but the unarmed focus comes as a surprise. *(+0.5)*

I like the little bit of fluff, it's quite charming. *(+0.5)*

*Power (1.5)*
On the one hand, you got top-notch strength and a bite. On the other, you only have +4 BAB, and you're triple-wielding relatively weak unarmed strikes, all without an easy mechanism for re-applying poison. I really question your decision to go the unarmed route here, and I don't really understand what it's getting you that multiple manufactured weapons wouldn't. A bunch of your feats seem pointless: will secondary damage ever roll around for Deadly Poison to matter? Is Rapid Metabolism worth a feat, when nearly every party should have a wand of lesser vigor by that point? Comparing you to an equal-level brute, I just can't in good conscience award points here.

No real out-of-combat role here.

Against poison-immune foes, you can... hit them, I guess? Versatile Unarmed Strike helps with the DR of zombies and skeletons, but I was hoping you'd have a better plan than 'punch the acid blob'. *(+0.5)*

*Elegance (4)*
No multiclass penalties. *(+1)*

Mechanically, I don't think that 'applying poison to a weapon' is quite equivalent to 'holding your fists out while you breathe toxic mist on them'. *(+0.5)*

The rules are extremely unclear on whether or not unarmed strikes can even be dual-wielded. Your build relies on a certain ruling, which not all DMs might replicate. *(+0.5)*

No awkward character progressions. *(+1)*

*UoSI (4)*
Poison comes online at level 3. *(+1)*

Poison matters for your functionality, but I can't bring myself to say it matters _much_. *(+0.5)*

Your build is clearly dedicated to enabling poison, making it work with unarmed strikes, turning it into a ranged option, etc. *(+1)*

Poisoning a weapon isn't innovative, but putting it on your own fists is a neat twist on the concept. *(+0.5)*



A few ties, let's hope disputes (or, imagine this, a second judge) break them.

----------


## The Viscount

Thank you for judging, Inevitability! We really appreciate it.

----------


## loky1109

> *Naa'it Sabes (25):* Perfect build, obtaining max points in all four categories plus a fifth, secret one.
> In unrelated news, I retract my submission.





> Upd: Aaaand. My *HM* vote for Naa'it Sabes.


Like looking out into the universe!

Thank you for judging!

Updated table!
*	 	Name	*
*	Alignment / Race	*
*	Class Levels	*
*	Chef	*
*	Inevitability 	*
*	Total	*
*	Place	*

 	Modayn Mo'problums	
	TN Warforged
	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1

	13.00
	13.00
	3rd

 	Naa'it Sabes	
	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider
	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1

	-
	-
	N/A

 	Najka Valukar	
	NE Half-Drow
	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1

	13.75
	13.75
	1st

 	Nyx, pt. 2	
	CE Human
	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1

	11.25
	11.25
	5th

 	Sabina Daisy Atis	
	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray
	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2

	11.50
	11.50
	4th

 	Master Necromancer Xul	
	TN Human
	Necromancer 6

	13.25
	13.25
	2nd

 	Zashi	
	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper
	Binder 3

	13.25
	13.25
	2nd

 	Clever Girl Zhu	
	CN Athach
	-

	13.00
	13.00
	3rd

----------


## MinimanMidget

Thanks for judging, Inevitability! We are grateful for your sacrifice. No disputes from me.

----------


## Inevitability

In case our chair Zaq isn't reading through all the judgings, the two things I'd still like clarification on are:

-Is the minimum score in a category always 1, or can I give 0 for builds that are unambiguously illegal?
-Is the Diablerie book at all allowed?

----------


## H_H_F_F

A sad day; I'm sorry it came to this. I thought your entry was very fun, Inevitability. I didn't participate in this round - but thanks for judging, anyway.

----------


## daremetoidareyo

Many thanks inevitability.  If you wish, I can score yours tomorrow night so that you have feedback

----------


## Venger

Thanks for judging. No disputes.

----------


## Zarvistic

Thank you for judging. No disputes here either.

----------


## loky1109

I see Zaq is AFK.

----------


## loky1109

Somebody should do this.

*Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes*
Show

It isn't precisely judging, I'll not give you numbers, just say some words.

*Spoiler: Originality*
Show

Hairy Spider. Who not hear about it? Many people really don't, but not the point. It is that stupid example of WotC poor editing. And you had the courage to use it. This is me praising you.
Ex-familiar. It isn't unknown ruleset at least foe me. I used it in the Junkyard Wars XXXV, but as storyteller, not as PC. It's cool. How both this parts work together. 
Druid for this round is pretty expectable. Planar Shepherd not so much. It's prestige class in E6 and I don't know Eberron well.
Your feats isn't mind-blowing as like as your general tactic. 

*Spoiler: Power*
Show

Venomfire Deadly Spittle Druid? Oh yes! It's very powerful. But you didn't stop at this. You have Energy Substitution, you have Wild Shape, with your size you can be well scout. Your saves (even Reflex) are not bad, your AC good, your hp looks slightly above average. Your damage potential isn't great until 6th level, you're not made for melee. But after you became powerhouse.
You have healing options, good out-of-fight spell options, Wild Empathy, useful skills (while you aren't true skill monkey). 
You were supposed to get a perfect score here. Maybe only early levels let you down.

*Spoiler: Elegance*
Show

You knew about issues when you wrote your entry. It are the same things that'd gave you big score in the Originality: Hairy Spider and Ex-familiar. Yes, they works better together than they could work apart. Surprisingly, together them cause much less questions. But there still are issues. Hairy Spider is just someones mocking on the rules. Ex-familiar wasn't create as PC option. DM should fine-tune it for real game. It's doable, but you can't get it out of the box and start playing right away.
Plus Reserves of Strength isn't Eberron feat. As like as your spit feats. Three different settings can be too much.

*Spoiler: UoSI*
Show

Okay. Poison. Well, you have it and you use it from the very beginning. Plus poisonous varies Animal Companions. Latter, with Wild Shape, you obtained different poisons, not only you innate. You have feats that improves you poison, or improves your spells that improves your poison, or improve you Wild Shape that give you new poisons. 
Maybe it isn't clear 5, but very close.



Inevitability thank you again! For judging and for your entry!

----------


## Inevitability

> Somebody should do this.
> 
> *Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes*
> Show
> 
> It isn't precisely judging, I'll not give you numbers, just say some words.
> 
> *Spoiler: Originality*
> Show
> ...


Thanks for the judging, I'm happy to at least get feedback on this one!

----------


## Zaq

Hey team, sorry I've been MIA. I won't bother with excuses, just apologies. Here's a single dispute. 




> Thank you for judging, Inevitability!
> 
> I have some disputes for you.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## H_H_F_F

Welcome back, Zaq!

----------


## Inevitability

> Hey team, sorry I've been MIA. I won't bother with excuses, just apologies. Here's a single dispute.


Welcome back Zaq! If you have any chairman opinions on my ability to assign 0 vs 1 elegance to illegal builds (specifically Sabina), please share them.




> Well, if money can solve the problem, it is not a problem, it is an expense.
> Donkey is medium creature and cost only 8 gp. Pig... We don't have any stats for it, but it clearly is at least small and costs 3 gp. Or goat for 1 gp. I don't claim I could raise skeleton from chicken's corps, but it maybe is possible. Medium creature limitation exists only in the Bone Armor's description. One chicken costs 2 cp.
> 
> I need to transport it all. Wagon costs 35 gp. Mules 8 gp each.


Interesting argument! I'd have liked to see this mentioned in the build entry itself, but I acknowledge the logic here. Relying on mundane mounts always feels a little shaky to me, but I suppose at high levels you can just buy some Talismans of the Disk and have basically the same effect. So yeah, have *(+0.5)* power here.

Unfortunately... this only pulls your build further away from poison. When waiting around for things to die isn't a factor, when _are_ you using poison dagger? If it's before reanimating stuff, is that really a better use of your action than reanimating stuff? If it's after, why are you negating the prime advantage of undead hordes (that is, having something between the monsters and the caster). *(-0.25)* in UoSI.




> Well, I can make many different knowledge checks. Is it not worth something?


In my judging criteria, I note:




> Out of combat, besides crafting/harvesting poison, how can you contribute to the party? Up to 1 point here. In general, if you fulfill one of the big roles (face, trapfinder, scout, healer, utility mage), that's 0.5 points guaranteed. If you fit in another of those boxes, or have enough random odds and ends to convince me that you'll typically be useful, that's another 0.5 points.


You clearly don't fill one of the big five roles (sending a skeleton marching into a trap doesn't count because you lack the means to then disable it), so do you qualify on the second count? I'm going to say: only partially. Many noncombat challenges aren't helped further by knowledge, so you don't meet the threshold for being 'typically' useful with those checks alone. Have *(+0.25)* I guess.




> I'm totally agree with your interpretation of necromancer's class skills. That's why I bought all my Knowledges, but arcana as cross-class skills. I think "Knowledge(Any)" could mean I can get any one Knowledge as in-class, but I didn't rely on it.


Whoops. *(+0.25)* added in Elegance.




> I see you missed something.
> My Returned Mages. Ranged touch poison attack with +3 AB (+2 from Necromantic Might) and 2d6 poison damage without any saves plus more 2d6 poison damage with Fort save. And I can have up to 14 of them. I think it is worth some points in the UoSI.


That's not what 'Raise Skeleton Mage' summons.


(Diablerie, page 80)

By RAW, the 'bone mage', 'returned mage', whatever, those are all different monsters that happen to be under the same heading (much like demons in the monster manual). If 'skeleton mage' was mentioned nowhere, as you argue, I'd be inclined to agree with your reasoning, but it very clearly gets mention, and it's not a poison-shooter. Yes, this means that Raise Skeleton Mage is kind of a crappy spell: such are the perils of using obscure poorly-written sourcebooks.

----------


## loky1109

Updated table.

Question for you, Inevitability.




> I'm going to say: only partially. Many noncombat challenges aren't helped further by knowledge, so you don't meet the threshold for being 'typically' useful with those checks alone. Have (*+0.25*) I guess.


Is this *+0.25* the same that already were in general judging or additional?

----------


## Inevitability

> Updated table.
> 
> Question for you, Inevitability.
> 
> 
> Is this *+0.25* the same that already were in general judging or additional?


The scores in my judging post are updated after disputes. I always go back and edit that, to have all rankings in the same place.

----------


## loky1109

> The scores in my judging post are updated after disputes. I always go back and edit that, to have all rankings in the same place.


Oh... I see now.

*Updated table!*
*	 	Name	*
*	Alignment / Race	*
*	Class Levels	*
*	Chef	*
*	Inevitability 	*
*	Total	*
*	Place	*

 	Modayn Mo'problums	
	TN Warforged
	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1

	13.00
	13.00
	4th

 	Naa'it Sabes	
	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider
	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1

	-
	-
	N/A

 	Najka Valukar	
	NE Half-Drow
	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1

	13.75
	13.75
	2nd

 	Nyx, pt. 2	
	CE Human
	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1

	11.25
	11.25
	6th

 	Sabina Daisy Atis	
	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray
	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2

	11.50
	11.50
	5th

 	Master Necromancer Xul	
	TN Human
	Necromancer 6

	14.00
	14.00
	1st

 	Zashi	
	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper
	Binder 3

	13.25
	13.25
	3rd

 	Clever Girl Zhu	
	CN Athach
	-

	13.00
	13.00
	4th

----------


## Zaq

Okay, I've delayed long enough. A thousand endless apologies, my friends. You've all been so patient with me, both this round and over and over. 

*	 	Name	*
*	Alignment / Race	*
*	Class Levels	*
*	Chef	*
*	Inevitability 	*
*	Total	*
*	Place	*

 	Modayn Mo'problums	
	TN Warforged
	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1
	 daremetoidareyo
	13.00
	13.00
	4th

 	Naa'it Sabes	
	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider
	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1
	 Inevitability
	-
	-
	N/A

 	Najka Valukar	
	NE Half-Drow
	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1
	 MinimanMidget
	13.75
	13.75
	2nd

 	Nyx, pt. 2	
	CE Human
	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1
	Venger
	11.25
	11.25
	6th

 	Sabina Daisy Atis	
	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray
	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2
	 daremetoidareyo
	11.50
	11.50
	5th

 	Master Necromancer Xul	
	TN Human
	Necromancer 6
	loky1109
	14.00
	14.00
	1st

 	Zashi	
	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper
	Binder 3
	 Zarvistic
	13.25
	13.25
	3rd

 	Clever Girl Zhu	
	CN Athach
	-
	loky1109
	13.00
	13.00
	4th



Congrats to loky1109 for gold, MinimanMidget for silver, and Zarvistic for bronze! Eternal thanks to Inevitability (Honorable Mention) for judging. 

I have a big announcement to make. I know you've all noticed that it's taking me longer and longer to post builds, reveals, updates, and so on. *I've made the decision that I need to step away from my role as Chair.* I absolutely loved doing this and I'm really glad I did, but I need to pass the torch for now (and hey, maybe I'll even occasionally get in an entry or two in the future!). You're all absolute rock stars and I love the little sub-community that's gathered here. But the contest isn't ending! *Going forward, Venger will be taking over as the new Chair for the Iron Chef E6 competition.* Many many many thanks to Venger for agreeing to put on the hat, and thanks again to every one of you for joining me for all this through the years!

----------


## RaiKirah

Thanks for running this competition for so long Zaq, it's been much appreciated!!

----------


## thorr-kan

Zaq, thanks for everything.  You've made this a going concern for quite awhile and done a great job.  You'll be missed...so you better have some submissions ready!   :Small Smile: 

Venger, welcome to the Chair.  I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got up your sleeve.  Good luck!

----------


## MinimanMidget

Thanks for running this for so long, Zaq! Enjoy your retirement, and maybe even take advantage of the opportunity to win a few rounds yourself!

----------


## thorr-kan

Link-ity-link-link for the new round!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...tion-Round-XLI

----------


## AsuraKyoko

Thank you Zaq for all the work you put in as chair!

----------


## loky1109

Thank you Zaq for all you did! 
Congratulations for MinimanMidget and Zarvistic!

I have a question: did anybody recognize reference in the Xul's fluff?

----------


## H_H_F_F

Thanks for running the show, Zaq. You're awesome.

----------


## thorr-kan

Also, Zaq, you the man for wrangling this beast for so long.  That's quite an accomplishment.

----------

