# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 5e/Next >  Another "dealing with your friends" question

## Burley

So, my game group is mostly comprised of my, like, actual friends whom I see away from the table. One of these friends can sometimes get a little too tipsy at the table, or gets a little too verbally aggressive with their die rolls. They also have a bit of a habit of shooting down ideas I come up with, only to suggest slightly worse versions of them a few minutes later. 

It's all minor stuff, right? Like, they're not being toxic, just kinda annoying. 

Well, this player also likes to keep a kill score for the party and I always feel like they're giving my "points" to somebody else. Yesterday, at the end of session, my tally was 6 kobolds, which I know was much lower than my actual score. I think, had this player _not_ been tracking it, I wouldn't care who killed the most because I know I was playing effectively in my role. But, because they were tracking it and its wrong, I'm annoyed that I'm not getting the credit I apparently deserve.


I'm sure we all deal with dumb stuff at the table. We usually play virtually, so, I can always mute myself to make some pithy remark. How do you deal with or manage your annoyance at the little things?

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## Boci

I think first you need to talk to the others. You've described a pretty blatant and easily noticeable pattern of behaviour, so the other players and DM should have noticed too. If they have, you can explain that its making you feel bad and then approach the problematic player as a united front. Its not a big deal individually, but collectively its making you feel bad you are more than entitled to ask him to stop.

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## Sigreid

I think you should think of your relationship as a whole.  I doubt the game is the only place this is happening. 

In any event, what is really going on is you're being set up to be the scapegoat for when things go wrong.

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## Burley

> In any event, what is really going on is you're being set up to be the scapegoat for when things go wrong.


I mean, you're not wrong. We're pirates and we've got some prisoners in the hull. One of them accused our captain of mutinying in the past, which some of the party (not my character) cared about. They beat this prisoner really badly, interrogating her about a piece of a map that she didn't know about (which we already had). My character, in a dual-action act of mercy/intimidation of the remaining prisoners, quickly executed this bloody pulp of a prisoner. 
That player keeps bringing it up like I'm getting away with murder. I mean, I technically am, but we're friggin' pirates. Their plan was going to be using magic to heal the prisoner and then continue to interrogate her, I guess? But, they continue to take the moral high ground and insist that my character is a wild card.

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## Segev

Deal with this as friends. If you're comfortable with it, ask the player in question to stop drinking during the game, as his behavior while tipsy is disruptive, and ask him to stop keeping the kill-count. Alternatively, keep your own kill-count, and compare it to his at the end of the evening. Maybe there's some fun discussion to be had over how the counts are kept. This between you and your friends, so you'd know better how to handle it than we.

If you're not comfortable confronting him about it individually, you can talk to the DM about it, or to the other players with whom you're more comfortable, and feel them out. Let them know it's making the game less fun for you, and they may voice similar concerns, or they may let you know it doesn't bother them. But even if it doesn't bother them, they hopefully will be at least a little sympathetic, and help police his behavior.

You can try for a united front confrontation, but the key really is just to communicate.

You can even, if you're willing to put yourself out there, just come forward at the table and spell out your problems. Or point your table to this thread, where you spell out your problems without naming names (though they'll all know who it is, since I doubt there's more than one keeping a kill counter). 

In the end, if you're all friends, communicating the problems to them as you have to us is your best bet, and then see what they have to say about it. Be prepared, emotionally: you may find out that some have issues with how you behave at the table, which they feel are either underlying causes to the problems you're having, or which they feel are equally annoying. I am not saying I "sense" any such thing, just that I know from experience that, when I hear only one side of a story, hearing the other side(s) often leads to revelation that there's more going on than just one person behaving badly. It might have some uncomfortable airing-out happen. But, if you're all friends, and handle it maturely, you should be able to weather it and figure out how to act better towards each other.

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## KorvinStarmast

You can also ask that person directly:
"Why are you being a jerk to me?  Are you even aware that what you are doing is a **** move?"

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## Sigreid

> I mean, you're not wrong. We're pirates and we've got some prisoners in the hull. One of them accused our captain of mutinying in the past, which some of the party (not my character) cared about. They beat this prisoner really badly, interrogating her about a piece of a map that she didn't know about (which we already had). My character, in a dual-action act of mercy/intimidation of the remaining prisoners, quickly executed this bloody pulp of a prisoner. 
> That player keeps bringing it up like I'm getting away with murder. I mean, I technically am, but we're friggin' pirates. Their plan was going to be using magic to heal the prisoner and then continue to interrogate her, I guess? But, they continue to take the moral high ground and insist that my character is a wild card.


So they think prolonged torture is not as bad as murder?  Interesting ethics they got going on there...

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## strangebloke

Generally, without specific knowledge of the table dynamic and what your friend is like, people won't be able to offer anything beyond generalities like "CUT THEM OFF!"

In reality, the things that actually make such a conversation difficult are things that aren't easily conveyed in a post like this. The devil is in the details. Maybe you're bad at initiating conflict. Maybe the player is bad at taking criticism. This kind of thing is genuinely hard and needs to be tailored to the person and the problem in question. 

Sometimes you might feel that it isn't worth 'fighting' over a particular issue. But IMO the key is to get in the habit of resolving issues, even relatively minor ones, _without_ fighting. You need to learn how to have adult conversations, and these small issues are important as a training run for the big ones.

Here's a rough outline though.
Figure out what you think 'the problem' is. Lets say in this case the problem is "Larry drinks too much and becomes very hard to play with. It'd be better if he drank less."verify that you're not being a judgmental ****. Talk to another player outside of the session. You can be pretty casual about it. "Larry was pretty sauced at the end of last session." gauge the response. There's a chance you're just being crazy here and you are the one that needs to change their attitude. But by talking to a few people like this, you can get a vibe check.vocalize the issue to the person. Again outside the session. Don't be harsh or condemnatory about it. Try to bring it up in the context of your certifying your friendship. Do it in voice chat. Say "hey could you show up early to the session tomorrow?" and then in that space before the session just say, "hey, I think Gary was bothered by you claiming all the kills. Yeah, nah, its not a huge deal. But maybe try to watch out for that. Yeah, I don't know man, maybe lay off the sauce a bit tonight? It seems like you were, heh, having performance issues."
This helps you get ahead of the problem, and creates a framework that can be extended for WAY more serious problems.

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## animorte

> So they think prolonged torture is not as bad as murder?  Interesting ethics they got going on there...


I cant express how very strongly I second this statement.

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## Demonslayer666

It's a team game, not individual.  Even the healer that did 0 damage helped defeat the monster/encounter.   A kill count is irrelevant.  Damage done is irrelevant.  Pay it no mind.  If you give it credence, then it will matter.  If you ignore it, or say how it doesn't matter, then it won't.

Ask them to take it easy when they get loud.  If they are a friend, they should take it into consideration.  I doubt they are intentionally trying to ruin the game for others.  Everyone needs to be considerate of other player's fun.

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## Segev

> It's a team game, not individual.  Even the healer that did 0 damage helped defeat the monster/encounter.   A kill count is irrelevant.  Damage done is irrelevant.  Pay it no mind.  If you give it credence, then it will matter.  If you ignore it, or say how it doesn't matter, then it won't.
> 
> Ask them to take it easy when they get loud.  If they are a friend, they should take it into consideration.  I doubt they are intentionally trying to ruin the game for others.  Everyone needs to be considerate of other player's fun.


It is easy to say "kill counts don't matter." It is harder to not be irritated when somebody keeps one anyway and even implies that it is a measure of contribution or accomplishment. And if it is neither, what is the point of it? Asking him not to keep it if it is impeding your fun is not wrong. If he pushes back, it is worth discussing why he wants it and how it enhances his fun, and looking for ways to compromise. Keeping your own kill count and discussing attribution methods could be one such compromise, if the count he keeps is inaccurate in a way that bothers you, for instance.

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## animorte

Alternatively, make it a game, start tracking a completely different metric: For example, damage dealt

_PC1: Hey, PC2 only landed the killing blow this many times.

PC2: It looks as though PC2 also dealt 149 damage that encounter while PC1 contributed a whopping, nearly triple-digit, 96!_

Hey, its all in good fun! And if they start cross-referencing your stats, that just opens up the door to double-checking their work as well. Theres a saying about heat in the kitchen.

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## Samayu

One problem this person seems to have is competitiveness. Or maybe they're not competitive for their own sake, but still sees it as a competitive game. If true, I think you would do well to talk to them on that subject. That could reduce the shenanigans a bit. 

The drinking is another thing. We used to have a guy like that. I didn't have the nerve to bring it up because I didn't want to be seen as someone who was against alcohol. He eventually decided on his own that he was drinking too much, so I can't offer you any advice there, except to say you'd have to get most of the other players to agree with you that something needs to be said. And they have to back you up if you do bring it up.

You probably can't have a productive "stop acting like a jerk talk" but you can bring up specific issues and the closer you can get to the root cause, the better.

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## Phhase

Partial solution: Keep your own tally of kills, and declare out loud whenever you add a mark, like "Nice fireball X person, I'll add those 2 bandits to your count" or "It kills the X? Excellent, then I'll add one to my tally." Easily justified because cmon, the guy's making this list while on the sauce, you gotta make sure someone with a level head has a backup if he loses track.

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## Mastikator

That's bullying, they don't respect you. It will get worse unless you call it out, and aggressively, stand your ground. There's no guarantee that calling it out will make it better, but I guarantee it will get worse if you don't.

When they dismiss your idea and then suggest it themselves, call it out, call them an idea thief to their face in front of everyone. Yes, it will cause problem at the table. It will also start to signal that you have a spine. Never allow a friend to disrespect you without you disrespecting them back, you should never tolerate it from friends.

Keep a tally for yourself, count it openly. If asked why tell them honestly why: because the other guy keeping a kill tally gets it consistently wrong _for you_.

For the record the minor stuff adds up, they are being toxic. Don't give them any excuses when you know damn well they give you none. Friendship should be built on mutual respect, but sometimes you have to remind people that.

The worse thing that could happen is the table breaks up or you're forced to leave, but remember that's not a negative outcome, because it will prove they were never your friend (and if you're forced to leave, best believe they'll find a new punching bag, unless this behavior stops the table is doomed)

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## Easy e

Read *How to Win Friends and Influence People* by Dale Carnegie. This person is a friend and you probably do not want to make waves all over the place. 

Here is the relevant part for this discussion: 




> *Win People to Your Way of Thinking*
> 
> 1. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
> 
> 2. Show respect for the other persons opinion. Never say, youre wrong.
> 
> 3. If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
> 
> 4. Begin in a friendly way.
> ...


There you go.  Hope it helps! 

Also realize that there are always things in life that will be annoying.  How you react and handle annoying things will be pretty important in helping define who you are as a person.  

Good luck.

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## Segev

> Read *How to Win Friends and Influence People* by Dale Carnegie. This person is a friend and you probably do not want to make waves all over the place. 
> 
> Here is the relevant part for this discussion: 
> 
> 
> 
> There you go.  Hope it helps! 
> 
> Also realize that there are always things in life that will be annoying.  How you react and handle annoying things will be pretty important in helping define who you are as a person.  
> ...


Running off of point 7, if the problem friend is always stealing your ideas, when he offers your idea as his, but in a worse way, quickly agree with him about how good an idea it is, and offer improvements to it that bring it back to being your idea. Let him feel it was still his idea, if that's important to him.

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## Demonslayer666

> It is easy to say "kill counts don't matter." It is harder to not be irritated when somebody keeps one anyway and even implies that it is a measure of contribution or accomplishment. And if it is neither, what is the point of it? Asking him not to keep it if it is impeding your fun is not wrong. If he pushes back, it is worth discussing why he wants it and how it enhances his fun, and looking for ways to compromise. Keeping your own kill count and discussing attribution methods could be one such compromise, if the count he keeps is inaccurate in a way that bothers you, for instance.


I did more than just say it.  Having reasons why it doesn't matter helps you be less irritated, and it also gives you ammunition to use when you ask them to stop.  I never said asking him to stop was wrong, in fact, I said "or say how it doesn't matter".

If you find that someone keeping a kill count is irritating, keeping one yourself is doubling down on the problem.  You may fix the counts to be more accurate, but now you focus on what you found irritating in the first place.  That sounds like a bad idea and is adding fuel to the fire.

You are comparing apples to oranges when trying to determine who was the most effective in the last combat.  Narrowing it down to kills or damage cheapens the other party member's contributions, especially for those that don't do damage.    

"I did the most damage." - rogue
"So?  That's because I was taking the most hits.  Had they been hitting you, you never would have survived to do the most damage." - fighter
"And had I not used Heal on you, you would have dropped and both of you'd be dead." - cleric
"Well I kept half of them off us with Wall of Force, you'd all be dead with out me." - wizard
"I inspired all of you with my interpretive dance!" - bard
"Yeah, you all defeated the encounter together, good job.  Here's some loot."  - DM

It's a pissing contest.

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## Segev

> I did more than just say it.  Having reasons why it doesn't matter helps you be less irritated, and it also gives you ammunition to use when you ask them to stop.  I never said asking him to stop was wrong, in fact, I said "or say how it doesn't matter".
> 
> If you find that someone keeping a kill count is irritating, keeping one yourself is doubling down on the problem.


*cough* For some (e.g. me) it's the inaccuracy that is bothersome.

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