# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 5e/Next >  A Change of Shape (5e Spheres in Review)

## SangoProduction

*Spheres Overall:* There's already a review over the Spheres system as a whole here. Long story short: Spheres is a subsystem that emphasizes customization and self definition of your character. It makes use of spell points rather than spell slots. (Oh and for the full list of rules, here's the online official wiki.)

This series is not a review of the entire subsystem, as it has already been done, and that isn't of much interest to me. (And it comes down to nothing more than: It's good. I prefer the subsystem to just about every other RPG system, as being the perfect balance of customizability to fit any character idea, structure, and mechanical crunch. Most other infinitely customized systems have almost no weight to the actual customizations. Or are GURPS, which is just a lovely mess.)

Instead, this is an inspection of the individual talents (think of them like feats/class features), to see which are the best to take, and generally help sort through the options presented, and make them easier to digest. Without any further ado...

-

*Preamble:*  The Alteration sphere is the one whose focus is around transforming into different creatures... and even objects - yes, I have shot a bear out of a bow before. But despite the fluff-wise indefiniteness of the sphere... in Pathfinder, it was mechanically, rather barren. A couple talents with a few useful traits, Humanoid shape for transforming into people, and then Aquatic form to win fights by transforming enemies into fish. Elemental form for mobility.
Incredibly uninteresting in Pathfinder. 
I want to see if, like the Telekinesis sphere, the 5e version does anything to make it more interesting, or fixes any of the problems. 

*Post-Review Analysis:* ...Not a whole lot really changed (about the Sphere) from Pathfinder to 5e... But I think it is because of the focus on natural attacks that I lost sight of the general usefulness (especially socially) of being able to freely change forms. But in the context of 5e, with much lower scaling, the independent combat capacity of the sphere is relatively higher.
I think that the Pathfinder version is much better than I was giving it credit for. And this is a good, useful sphere.

*Spoiler: Ratings*
Show

(1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
(1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves. (Kept it decimal, because spreading out Good so far from Superb felt unrepresentative. But I needed a step between)
(2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
(3) Usable: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.

(4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
(5) Never: Theres no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
(6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.

<Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
[Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign youre playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.

Special Ratings:
(C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
(?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or its far too ambiguous.
(F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
(D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.


Base Sphere contains the abilities you gain from using a talent on the sphere for the first time.
*Spoiler: Base Sphere*
Show

*Bonus Talent:* Since the sphere requires a (genotype) talent in order to work, as part of picking up the Sphere, you are granted a (genotype) talent as well. Lucky you.

*Shapeshift:* As an action, you may touch a willing creature, and change its shape for (Concentration), up to 10 minutes. You may also add 1 trait (+1 at lvls: 5, 11, 17).Do note that some forms aren't able to supply somatic or verbal components. (Obviously a fish isn't going to be speaking ASL.) The forms are also the same size as the target you are transforming, by base.

For a spell point, you can target unwilling creatures, who get a con save immediately, and at the end of each turn, get another. 
For 2 spell points, the effect persists without concentration. (Oof, that's a steep cost. But, so long as you don't cast another concentration spell, it's not actually an issue to maintain concentration in 5e.)

Overall, the basic function of the sphere works. The duration is particularly short, compared to Pathfinder. I do think that I overall like the enemies getting a save at the end (rather than the beginning) of their turn. It is a nice middle ground between save-or-lose, and them needing to fail twice in a row in order to be disabled for one round.



Basic Talents can be selected from the sphere, after you gain the base sphere. They tend to add functionality to the sphere. Each talent you spend can get you one of the following basic talents.
The following are groups of the basic talents.

Genotype talents are basic talents that grant additional "base forms" that you can shapeshift targets into.
_Note:_ Traits gained from genotype talents can be applied to any form you apply.
*Spoiler: Genotype Talents*
Show

*Anthropomorphic (1):* First and foremost: This lets you transform into humanoids. Changelings are bloody terrifying for a reason, and it's not their combat. It also grants the target the ability to speak a language you can (even if it's one you made up), and bumps up intelligence to a minimum of 6. 
Also grants traits to enable speaking horses... or fish with hands (potentially requiring arms first)... As well as "normal humanoid" senses. So just go ahead and imagine an Earth Elemental with the nose-glasses comedy accessories - if they also included a set of ears.

*Elemental (1):* Sloppily written, but you get to select one of the elemental packages when granting the form. (Or perhaps when taking the talent. Who knows.) Very useful for difficult traversal, like when you need to move through solid stone.
The only downside Elemental form has is that they lack hands and voices by default, and adding more natural attacks is difficult due to having undefined limb structure. But those are kind of irrelevant to their job.

*Dragon (1.5)* Breath Weapon, and Frightful Presence. Breath Weapon is certainly pretty good. An AoE elemental Greatsword? Nice. It has a recharge (as per the 5e monster rules). A frightful presence is very potent for making creatures afraid.
Due to the suppression of Destruction sphere in 5e, this talent is much less clearly overwhelmed by that sphere.

*Ooze (1.5):* Engulf is actually a pretty decent disabiling ability, and it's AoE. Also, the pudding being able to destroy nonmagical weaponry on contact is pretty interesting. A barbarian tends to have little to do without their axe. And any wizards will be very unhappy with you.
Oh, and blindsight out to 60 feet (but total blindness outside of that) is actually incredibly useful when it's useful. It works as a decent "all-rounder" genotype, with swimming, climbing, combat, and stealth forms.

*Aquan <2>:* Do you desperately need to swim through water? The answer is almost always no. But when it's yes, it's nice to have. (But water elemental is better.) Also a land speed of 5 still makes it relatively debilitating, even with a save at the end of every turn.

*Avian (2):* Starts with glide speed, which upgrades to slow flight at level 5. It's cool, I guess. Although it's better to make use of its Flight trait to apply the one useful effect from this genotype to another better one. Especially given that Air Elemental genotype gives a better flight ability... it's just not a trait.

*Blank Form (2):* Getting advantage, and double proficiency, to your Deception checks to appear as something is occasionally useful. Do you necessarily need it, even for social situations? I mean, that's a large set of bonuses to specifically one thing. 

*Animalistic (3)*: It's speed 40, and has the Scent ability, and the Overrun ability. Nothing particularly noteworthy. Transforming into street cats or rats might be a notable stealth use though, if you pick up a talent to reduce your size.

*Object (3):* Automatic advantage on stealth or deception checks to appear as an object. Notably, they have no functional limbs (even as a statue). Otherwise, no notable, mechanical use. But reasonable objects are even less suspicious than rats. So it's not bad for its singular job. (And memes.)

*Vermin (4):* The natural attack superstructure. If you need a bunch of limbs so you can stick some attacks on them, here you go. Oh, and it has climb speed. Boring.e

*Subterranean (4):* Surprisingly enough, burrow speed is less commonly needed than even swim speed, despite most campaigns happening on land.... because most campaigns happen *on* land. So unless you're using burrow to specifically get around something that's otherwise blocking your path... well, that's literally its use. You don't tend to need to have it on extra forms, unlike Flight, thus you are better off with Elemental form. If you can target without line of sight, this can be busted though. 10x more so than flight could ever hope to be. And that's precisely the reason why you don't particularly need combat capabilities while having a burrow speed.

*Plant (4):* Has the highest AC of the forms, and advantage on stealth in dense foliage.... and that's it. Note that in 5e, this natural AC does not in any way interact with armored AC.

*Serpentine (4):* Really uninspiring.

*Orb (5):* There is next to no purpose to this form. Unless you just really want to cosplay a beholder.


Trait talents do not grant any additional "forms" but are instead sets of traits... As one could have surmised.
*Spoiler: Trait Talents*
Show

*Size Change (1):* For both combat and social transformations, being able to shift from the size of a house cat to a 24 foot tall giant is pretty useful.

*Aberrant Body (1):* Mucus and Tendril are both potent combat traits. Many Eyes gives advantage on vision based perception checks...which is most of them. So a potent set of traits.

*Construct Traits (1):* Advantage on all saves against magic, even for 2 spell points, is really quite potent. Especially when targeting creatures who ignore partial effects, such as rogues with evasion against reflex saves. Also resistance to all physical damage from nonmagical weapons that aren't adamantine is pretty nice too, though it's also 2 spell points.

*Outsider Traits (2):* Only grants damage resistances, but notably, Fire Resistance. Fire is particularly common, from what I know, and it doesn't cost extra spell points. (If, for one reason or another, you didn't take Elemental genotype, which already grants such a trait.)

*Giant Traits [2]:* Grants the ability to use "large rocks" as ranged attacks. Very acceptable range and damage.

*Agile Body (2):* Generally useful agility-based traits. Advantage on initiative is probably the standout of them.

*Protean Mastery (2):* Physical resistance vs non-magical, non-silver weapons. And Advantage on stealth checks from camouflage. Pretty decent, if you need more stealth, but also want durability.

*Swarm Body (3):* A very specialized talent that grants you the the ability to be a swarm, and then to empower that swarm. It's neat if your character idea constitutes a playable swarm.

*Bestial Spirit (3):* Speak with beasts, hard to kill, and flanking as a trait. Eh.

*Bestial Reflexes (3):* Multi-attack brings back the Pathfinder ability to attack with all natural attacks at once. And doesn't Extra Attack. That's the only real stand out, and isn't nearly as notably strong since it's also taking up a trait slot, and traits are incredibly limited in 5e. 

*Fey Traits (3):* Basically Construct Traits but worse.

*Odiferous (3):* Grants some ways to inflict the poisoned condition, which is a powerful one, but the abilities are consequently relatively weak.

*Twisted Body (4):* Makes your offensive shapeshifts more impactful, in theory. In practice, it doesn't do much more than turning them in a fish did. Exception would be the additional save or else they get blinded.
(Although for large cat creatures, assuming your DM lets multiple Flesh Pocket traits stack, you can turn them into a living bus for children. If anyone gets that reference.)

*Bestial Mind (4):* Exceptionally narrow effect of nullifying the target's intelligence... which.. maybe the guy you just transformed into a fish was also a psionic rather than a caster, letting them ignore the normal casting requirements... but that's exceptionally narrow.

*Additional Limbs / Prickly  (4):* Almost never particularly useful.

*Extreme Adaptation (5):* If your DM didn't have a prepared way for you to access the areas granted here (except Endure Weather)... there's probably not really any content there... as fun of a concept as flying to the moon may be.

*Undead Traits (5):* Next to useless until level 15.

*Morphic Weapon (6):* Grants the ability to spend a trait on making the form actively worse. 

*Vitality (F):* The ability to spend hit dice as though takening a short rest on any shapeshift is fun. As is advantage vs death effects, necrotic damage, poison, and disease.



*Spoiler: Other Talents*
Show

*Enhanced Attacks [1]:* Assuming that you actually intend to use natural weapons, making them count as magical is pretty useful, given a DM that likes to use resistances/immunities to nonmagical weapons.

*Freeform Traits (1):* Grants the traits (but not forms) of 2 (genotype) traits. Standout (genotype) candidates are Anthropomorphic (although it's a great pickup, not just for its traits), Dragon, Aquan and Avian. Aquan and Avian are both great choices if you frequently need to traverse irregular terrain, and maintain combat readiness (and thus don't want Elemental form).

*Greater Transformation (1):* Lets you apply an additional trait to any shapeshift. Given how few traits you normally get, this is useful.

*Mimicry (2):* Lets gain any alteration talent corresponding to a creature, or one of its apparent features, as either an action or a spell point. So if you are facing Harpies, you can potentially gain the Avian talent, and give your barbarian wings. Also get yet another advantage on deception checks to imitate someone.



Variants are restrictions upon the use of the sphere, but often gives something in recompense. They are more here for flavor than for power.
*Spoiler: Variants*
Show

*Lycanthropic*: You may only target yourself, but gain an additional alteration talent.

*Material weakness:* Choose a material like silver or wood, and on being struck by that, make a wisdom save vs 5+ damage taken, or have the effect dispelled, and unable to shapeshift for 1 hour. In exchange, gain 1 alteration talent.
That is positively crippling. But makes sense for certain fluffs. As long as you don't choose a hyper common weapon material like Iron or Steel, it should be fine, and just an occasional consideration that you must be especially aware of.

*Flesh Warper (5):* You lose the ability to shapeshift yourself, but gain Twisted Body. Twisted Body is overall not a good talent.

----------


## JackPhoenix

So, few things: Anthropomorphic genotype allows you to grant hands as a trait, but you need to have arms first... you can get those through Additional Limbs. An extra trait (and talent) tax before you get your handyfish. It also (per the basic Shapeshift power) doesn't give you fine enough control over the exact appearance to be much useful beyond being a random face in a crowd, you'll need Blank Form for that. Put together, I'd say it's not as good as you put it.

----------


## SangoProduction

> So, few things: Anthropomorphic genotype allows you to grant hands as a trait, but you need to have arms first... you can get those through Additional Limbs. An extra trait (and talent) tax before you get your handyfish. It also (per the basic Shapeshift power) doesn't give you fine enough control over the exact appearance to be much useful beyond being a random face in a crowd, you'll need Blank Form for that. Put together, I'd say it's not as good as you put it.


I don't see where it requires arms for hands, but definitely don't see that as unreasonable.
And the point about the "disguise" functionality... also reasonable. And I think I'll be using it going forward. Way I interpreted it was: you got to turn into your desired form. You simply didn't get any bonuses to disguise.
Regardless of interpretation, you're still going to want anthro form if you want to be able to do good disguises. Especially of races that aren't your own.

----------


## Segev

Blank Form is also really good for turning your traits into buffs on your base form when you don't want to have to choose forms carefully to maintain your gear.



Oh, and *5e note* in response to the part you said you don't know 5e very well: in 5e, the attack action by default allows you to use one attack, regardless of where you get the attack. So creatures' natural weapons are merely options for which one to use with that attack action, unless they have a Multiattack action in their statblock that lets them use some combination of their attacks.

Bestial Reflexes's Multiattack is actually really powerful if you can pile the natural weapons on, though that is tricky with the limited number of traits you have available. Graft Weapon remains lackluster, but can let you add it to a multiattack routine of natural weapons, or (with more traits than I think you can reasonably get) pile up grafted weapons as natural attacks for multiple weapon attacks.

Thinking about it, if you took Dragon genotype, and had Avian's traits available, you could apply Talons and Wing Buffet to give yourself a total of 3 natural attacks. Bestial Reflexes for Multiattack is a fourth trait. So 4 traits to get a 3 attack routine that is...honestly not very much damage per attack unless you spend a fifth talent on Prickly's Spines or have another way of making each attack do more damage. (Dark Sphere's Dark Slaughter is one of the few ways to do that that I can think of.)

----------


## SangoProduction

> Blank Form is also really good for turning your traits into buffs on your base form when you don't want to have to choose forms carefully to maintain your gear.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and *5e note* in response to the part you said you don't know 5e very well: in 5e, the attack action by default allows you to use one attack, regardless of where you get the attack. So creatures' natural weapons are merely options for which one to use with that attack action, unless they have a Multiattack action in their statblock that lets them use some combination of their attacks.
> 
> Bestial Reflexes's Multiattack is actually really powerful if you can pile the natural weapons on, though that is tricky with the limited number of traits you have available. Graft Weapon remains lackluster, but can let you add it to a multiattack routine of natural weapons, or (with more traits than I think you can reasonably get) pile up grafted weapons as natural attacks for multiple weapon attacks.
> 
> Thinking about it, if you took Dragon genotype, and had Avian's traits available, you could apply Talons and Wing Buffet to give yourself a total of 3 natural attacks. Bestial Reflexes for Multiattack is a fourth trait. So 4 traits to get a 3 attack routine that is...honestly not very much damage per attack unless you spend a fifth talent on Prickly's Spines or have another way of making each attack do more damage. (Dark Sphere's Dark Slaughter is one of the few ways to do that that I can think of.)


Substantial thanks for the response. I was thinking that's how NAs it worked, but I really wasn't too sure.

----------


## JackPhoenix

> I don't see where it requires arms for hands, but definitely don't see that as unreasonable.


I'm basing it on "The targets arms end in hands that can perform Dexterity checks as skillfully as any humanoid". I can see how that can be interpreted as getting both arms and hands (wording is a mess), but both that and "Arms: An extra arm, which can do all things a normal arm can for your form" in Additional Limbs point that arms and hands are considered separately.




> And the point about the "disguise" functionality... also reasonable. And I think I'll be using it going forward. Way I interpreted it was: you got to turn into your desired form. You simply didn't get any bonuses to disguise.


Shapeshift says "your control is not fine enough to mimic a specific individual creature". It's good enough if you want to look like _an_ orc, but not good enough to mimic a specific member of a warband you're trying to impersonate.




> Thinking about it, if you took Dragon genotype, and had Avian's traits available, you could apply Talons and Wing Buffet to give yourself a total of 3 natural attacks. Bestial Reflexes for Multiattack is a fourth trait. So 4 traits to get a 3 attack routine that is...honestly not very much damage per attack unless you spend a fifth talent on Prickly's Spines or have another way of making each attack do more damage. (Dark Sphere's Dark Slaughter is one of the few ways to do that that I can think of.)


Shapeshift's natural weapons are explicitly considered unarmed strikes. That opens the possibility of some nice synergies with other stuff, depending on how you rule interaction between "These abilities alter the targets unarmed strike, letting them change the damage die and damage type" and other features that modify US damage, like Martial Arts, Unarmed Fighting FS, talents from Spheres of Might or some magic items.

Speaking of unarmed (and related) shennanigans, while Serpentine form's pretty meh (as any proper evil overlord knows, turning into snake never works), the traits are pretty awesome for a grappler.

Another synergy: Subterranean form, as you've noted, can get interesting if you can attack without line of sight... Telekinesis has a talent that doesn't require you to see your target... and unlike spellcasting, spherecasting lacks language about requiring line of effect (though that's almost definitely an oversight). A mole who can psychically crush people to death without anyone having a clue what's going on is pretty horryfing image. And if nothing else, burrowing at the end of your turn can make you immune to hostile activities.

----------


## SangoProduction

> I'm basing it on "The targets arms end in hands that can perform Dexterity checks as skillfully as any humanoid". I can see how that can be interpreted as getting both arms and hands (wording is a mess), but both that and "Arms: An extra arm, which can do all things a normal arm can for your form" in Additional Limbs point that arms and hands are considered separately.
> 
> 
> 
> Shapeshift says "your control is not fine enough to mimic a specific individual creature". It's good enough if you want to look like _an_ orc, but not good enough to mimic a specific member of a warband you're trying to impersonate.
> 
> 
> 
> Shapeshift's natural weapons are explicitly considered unarmed strikes. That opens the possibility of some nice synergies with other stuff, depending on how you rule interaction between "These abilities alter the targets unarmed strike, letting them change the damage die and damage type" and other features that modify US damage, like Martial Arts, Unarmed Fighting FS, talents from Spheres of Might or some magic items.
> ...


Fair point on most everything. 
I am even less convinced of grappling's efficacy and reason for being in 5e than in pf. And there wasn't much of one there either, but sure, I'll give that constrictor is a good add on to a grappler.
And subterrainean: I shouldn't have rated it low. I should have rated it cheese, because that's basically its only useful capacity, as mentioned. And being simultaneously untargettable and perfectly able to target enemies is one of the reasons that I see a lot of freak out in 5e over flying characters. (Although I think the freak out is largely just a meme. Sort of like the idea that Teemo is the most annoying character in the game of League of Legends.)
So, taking that meme even further would probably get you banned.... but let's be honest, even then, I do believe the elemental form would still be superior for such a strategy.

----------


## Segev

Grappling in 5e is actually pretty decent. It's by far the most straight-forward ruleset for it I've seen in any game, requiring opposed checks to resolve rather than lengthy minigames. And it locks people into melee with you. Now, admittedly, grappling as a caster is pretty questionable, but if you're an Alteration specialist, perhaps you're one of those rare melee casters who like being in people's faces. Or maybe you're using it to buff an ally with better combat ability. 

One nice thing about Alteration over 5e's shapeshifting magics is that, if you're using it as a buff on an ally, it doesn't overwrite the ally's stats and features, so you're buffing THEM rather than replacing their PC with a different game piece for their player to use. This is also a downside of it: it doesn't bolster hp, it doesn't buff stats, and it can clash hard with any weapon specializations people might have, so it's useful on a narrow subset of allies.

Back on grappling: The typical tactic with grappling is actually a two-attack combination. I believe, however, this combination gets sweeter with Alteration, because I think I saw somewhere in there yesterday while I was reviewing it, myself, to ponder things for this thread, a way to get a free shove with your natural weapon attack. So serpentine for the freebie grapple and then that other trait for the free shove. Grapple, then shove them prone, using multiattack to hit them multiple times and do all of this without giving up any attacks for damage. (Admittedly, you're still using lackluster natural attacks, because 5pheres is terrified of giving damage-dealing abilities to casters, but there IS damage, at least.) 

Once you've grappled somebody and shoved them prone, they're vulnerable to other melee attacks (attacks against prone creatures that originate within 5 feet have advantage to hit), they can't get up (that requires spending movement, which they don't have because grapple sets them to 0) until they break the grapple, and even if they do break the grapple, it costs half their movement to become un-prone, meaning they're still not running away very fast. You, too, can drag them hither and yon. Yes, it costs 1 extra foot per foot of movement when dragging, but you can also position them anywhere adjacent to you after moving, so if you want, you can drag them into hazardous terrain or away from allies or the like. This gets especially fun with non-spherecasting spells like _spike growth_ in play, which does 2d4 piercing damage for every five feet a creature moves through the area. You can position yourself at the edge of it, them inside it, and then drag their face along the spikes back and forth for a bunch of damage just using your movement. Or just hold them inside a _create bonfire_-created bonfire. Or some other nasty effect.

You need to build for it and/or have a party who is willing to build some tactics around it, but grappling can be a lot of fun and very effective.

----------


## SangoProduction

mm. Good arguments. I'd definitely need to see it in action, as I'm still not really convinced. That could come in time.

----------


## Segev

> mm. Good arguments. I'd definitely need to see it in action, as I'm still not really convinced. That could come in time.


Fair enough. It was bolstered by the DM's custom race giving advantage and extra limbs, but I had a lot of fun with a cecaelian (octopus-person, like Ursula fro Little Mermaid) grappler using rogue and shadow monk for the majority of the build. He would pull people off of the decks of ships or up into the eaves of a building, or would lock down the big guy by grappling him then preceding to dodge his counter attacks while the party dealt with minions, or would use stealth and grappling to Batman the numbers down in attacking an encampment with guards.

----------

