# Forum > Gaming > Gaming (Other) >  Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask (The Five Stages of Zelda-Game)

## LaZodiac

And so we find ourselves here, at Majora's Mask. This Zelda retrospective like thing I'm doing has lead us down one many a road so far. Most of it fairly bumpy, as the DS tries so hard to provide the proper base for a Zelda game. But here, we return to something a bit smoother; another remake of an old N64 game, enhanced and for the better in almost every way. Which, ironically, is kind of what Majora's Mask has always been. Ocarina of Time+, Ocarina of Time Hard Mode DLC, so on and so forth. Majora's Mask took the excellent Ocarina, took what it had, and remixed it into something brilliant. Today we're going to begin out journey with Majora's Mask, stepping into the land of Termina and seeing what sights we will see.

As ever and always, updates are on Monday and Friday (as often as I can I've allowed myself some slipping as of late due to my life getting complicated for the better) and I would appreciate no spoilers for those who do not know what is to come. Which is unlikely to be anyone really, but better safe than sorry. So, without further adieu... let us begin.

*Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [1] Curses and Calamities*

*Video Length: 1:08:16*

Extra long episode, because the texture of Majora's Mask's opening sort of necessitates completion, in my opinion. And as far as Zelda games go, it starts rather quickly, but also takes quite awhile to get going. The Skullkid curses us to be a Deku, and that locks us in Clocktown quite handily, as well as limits a lot of what we can do! It serves as a pretty good basic tutorial of How This Game Will Work, while not feeling quite so stifling as to be annoying.

The only real issue with it is that, even if you're acting as though you don't know exactly waht to do, it is quite easy to find yourself finished and ready to go to the first final confrontation with the Skullkid... and have maybe a day and a half left. Thankfully you do get shown the Scarecrow during all this so there are ways to skip ahead quickly, but it is entirely possible to not talk to the guy. It does mean there is a lot of waiting around in this first three days, and since it's hard to get money and so many stores don't serve Deku children, it means that your options are also fairly limited as it pertains to time passing. It tightens up this tutorial intro segment to make it harder to fail, but likewise makes sudden and powerful success all the more "... well what next?".

But I think, ultimately, this is a good thing. It encourages those who wish to engage with the game to engage with it on a different way than typically expected. Namely, just kinda wandering around and seeing stuff happen as they happen. Majora's Mask is a very schedule focused game and that can lead to some fun things happening depending on where you are. Happenstance can lead to unique gameplay experiences that I quite like (we got an example of that in this video, actually!). It also makes the looming threat of the Moon all the more palpable... after a certain point all you can do is wait and watch the big boy come down, closer and closer... with not a lot you can do about it but wait. It's intimidating.

With that said, I hope you all enjoyed. Future videos will be shorter, by virtue of me not feeling it necessary for the flow of things to include it all, among other things. See you all next... time.

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## Lord Raziere

Hello Zodi!  Welcome back to Termina! *puts Majora's Mask on Zodi*

This game is a classic for a reason. Its certainly unusual if not unique in its groundshog day premise, though I've never finished it myself, though I've watched my brother do so.

*Day One, 71 Hours Remain:* *Loop 1: Welcome to Termina!*
Yeah, too bad he never finds Navi in all this.....

Y'know, ironically I think I saw Majora's Mask before Ocarina of Time, so to me this skull kid is the one I know first. 

yes give back the horse! and the magical flute that kinda-sorta prays to the goddesses of time! 

Yes, it is partly horror. don't think I realized that when I was young.

....and then he finds Tatl instead, I bet this is real sad for him, because Tatl would totally remind Link of Navi, so her being there is kind of sad because its like, he probably doesn't want to replace Navi or anything but now he must do all this with Tatl for reasons.

I remember the original game having only 3 hops, this game has 5 so yes they did give you more hops.

ah yes, Masks Salesman's theme. one of my more liked pieces of music in this game. its just the right blend of strange and attention grabbing yet chill to fit my style

OH NO! MARIO GOT TRAPPED IN A MASK! I knew his use of Cappy was going too far.....

those balls are traveling WAY too slowly through the air to be physically possible. Are these jugglers.....magic? oh god they're the like the twins from the Shining except with juggling, the horror is already happening. 

As a proud Nord of Skyrim I look upon these literal milk-drinkers! 

ah Zodi, there is this point in the video's footage where for some reason after the password is gotten wrong the first time, it skips to Deku-link failing to climb the slide and chasing the mailman then repeating that over again once more while the audio is normal, just thought I'd let you know in case you didn't. 

always a pleasure to see the great fairies again. hooray! we have become a squirtle. 

The dog teamed up with you to defeat the greater threat: stupid brat, then immediately turned on you, the truce having ended.

honestly, I think the extra time is so that you can retry catching the Bomber kids if you fail the first time, because like you just experienced, sometimes you have to do it all over again because you don't know where they are, which is the hardest part of this beginning

Yeah, the Bomber kid code changes each playthrough if I remember, so you can't just sequence break unless your incredibly lucky. 

that cage for the cucco is too flimsy a jail for its species.....I'm watching you chicken!

you shoulda danced with the scarecrow more.....

battle with dog to pass time, the fight against him will be epic!

Zodi, don't get emotionally invested, I think the Deku-hate is just there because the Dekus aren't programmed to do any of these things these shops do, so they have to have a reason to deny you. while the dog....well your a tree, but you move, so the dog is probably confused as to the why the tree is moving.

well....you spent your money wisely on a bomb bag, so just remember you made the right investment rather than blowing it all on some stupid lovers shooting gallery game.

In-TRI-cate Zodi, Intricate. was putting the R in the wrong place. 

who is firing off these fireworks?

hey now....Skull Kid isn't a nerd, he is a prankster, thats kind of the opposite of nerd Zodi. one causes trouble, the other is smart and supposedly got bullied by jocks at some point. I don't think Skull Kid qualifies as the latter.

and now we play the iconic song of perhaps this entire franchise......THE SONG OF TIME! 

back to first day. and now....the real game begins.

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## ShneekeyTheLost

I had originally missed on this game when it first came out. I didn't really see the value in the 'booster pack, which meant I couldn't play it on the original hardware. I got a chance to play it when I picked up the Zelda 25th anniversary Gamecube bundle that included Z1, Z2 (but not LTTP >.>), OoT, MM, and a playable demo for Windwaker. 

My initial response was... mixed. The idea was interesting, Zelda meets Groundhog Day. The implementation, at times, was kind of iffy. The graphics were nightmare fuel, especially some of the mask transitions (Goron mask transition in particular). I wouldn't call it the best offering in the series, but neither would I call it the worst. I beat the game, and even 100% it, but I was honestly more interested in the Z1 and Z2 emulators than this game on the disk. 

But probably the best thing about this is that I get to see someone else's take on the game, someone else's perspective, and perhaps discover something special about the game that I had missed in my experience. That's why I appreciate you doing this, Zodi. You're an awesome content creator who has an interesting perspective that differs from my own. You helped me see the enjoyment of several games I had previously dismissed. I respect and appreciate that. Thank you. 

As I've actually beaten this game before, I'll probably be more active in this thread than some of your previous LP's with games I was totally unfamiliar with, but I'll try to be respectful about not backseating and try to keep spoiler content in spoiler tags.

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## DataNinja

Well... I've never played this game, nor really seen it played. In fact, I've deliberately _avoided_ seeing people talk about it until this series got to it. I know a little bit of stuff about the game (from stuff like Nintendo Power, and general osmosis), but the details are... iffy. So this'll be an experience!


Well, this game sure is starting you off with "THIS IS DIFFERENT".  :Small Tongue: 

It sounded like from lines that Tayle was Tatl's brother, not two sisters.

"Why are people so rude to Dekus???" she asks, as she smashes pottery.  :Small Amused:  


But, yeah. I'm going in essentially-blind, so I'm excited to discover things as they come in-game!

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## Rater202

The reason people are rude t Dekus is becuase they don't have Quirks, you should know that Zodi.

Alternatively, becuase you're just a scrub. You haven't gotten gud yet.

So I'm only vaguely aware of Majora's mask... But I'm very aware of Ben Drowned.

I had forgotten that "You've Met with a Terrible Fate" was an original line from the source material and almost had a god damned heart attack.

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## LaZodiac

> ah Zodi, there is this point in the video's footage where for some reason after the password is gotten wrong the first time, it skips to Deku-link failing to climb the slide and chasing the mailman then repeating that over again once more while the audio is normal, just thought I'd let you know in case you didn't. 
> 
> who is firing off these fireworks?


How... very strange.

From what I've heard from my American friends, no one will ever not set off fire works if given an opportunity.




> But probably the best thing about this is that I get to see someone else's take on the game, someone else's perspective, and perhaps discover something special about the game that I had missed in my experience. That's why I appreciate you doing this, Zodi. You're an awesome content creator who has an interesting perspective that differs from my own. You helped me see the enjoyment of several games I had previously dismissed. I respect and appreciate that. Thank you. 
> 
> As I've actually beaten this game before, I'll probably be more active in this thread than some of your previous LP's with games I was totally unfamiliar with, but I'll try to be respectful about not backseating and try to keep spoiler content in spoiler tags.


Oh gosh, thanks a lot! I'm glad you're excited to see it, and I hope I can bring something unique to the table here.




> Well... I've never played this game, nor really seen it played. In fact, I've deliberately _avoided_ seeing people talk about it until this series got to it. I know a little bit of stuff about the game (from stuff like Nintendo Power, and general osmosis), but the details are... iffy. So this'll be an experience!
> 
> It sounded like from lines that Tayle was Tatl's brother, not two sisters.
> 
> But, yeah. I'm going in essentially-blind, so I'm excited to discover things as they come in-game!


That's also really a kind thing to say! I hope you enjoy!

Yeah that's a misspeak on my part.




> The reason people are rude t Dekus is becuase they don't have Quirks, you should know that Zodi.
> 
> Alternatively, becuase you're just a scrub. You haven't gotten gud yet.
> 
> So I'm only vaguely aware of Majora's mask... But I'm very aware of Ben Drowned.
> 
> I had forgotten that "You've Met with a Terrible Fate" was an original line from the source material and almost had a god damned heart attack.


Okay, good joke there.

I have zero experience with internet creepy pasta stuff, so Neat. Funny how these things happen  :Small Tongue:

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## Rater202

Another thing I've noticed, in general, is that the protagonists of these puzzle/platformer games would be... Overpowered as all hell in a superhero comic book.

Raz would have Omega Level psychics calling bullcrap on the breadth of his powers and ease at mastering new ones, Sly makes various "cat burglar" type characters look like scrubs, and this specific Link even in just this game is an entire team to himself...*Spoiler: Courtesty spoiler*
Show

 Literally, considering the three main masks are made of souls.

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## Lord Raziere

Yeah, they're flexible but....videogame characters tend to be very low powered. the only supers who would care would be low level supers who do the day to day street crime stuff, and even then all three of videogame protags would be nothing compared to the ridiculousness that is Batman. supers who go around fighting planetary monstrosities? only videogame characters they care about is Kirby and Asura.

But even then more thematic and narrow supers have their own nonsense in that they tend to use their powers with a surprising amount of creativity to stretch them as far as they can go. I bet you Spiderman has found so many uses for his webbing that its basically a budget green lantern ring.

As for Majora's Mask being a proto-DLC, I can see that but I'm glad it was made before DLC's honestly. DLC's tend to be smaller, be a side story and thus be a bit compressed, but Majora's Mask has its own story, gets to breathe and be its own thing without being too attached to Ocarina of Time. But Majora's Mask was my introduction to LoZ I think.

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## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (1)*
Show




> And so we find ourselves here, at Majora's Mask. This Zelda retrospective like thing I'm doing has lead us down one many a road so far. Most of it fairly bumpy, as the DS tries so hard to provide the proper base for a Zelda game. But here, we return to something a bit smoother; another remake of an old N64 game, enhanced and for the better in almost every way. Which, ironically, is kind of what Majora's Mask has always been. Ocarina of Time+, Ocarina of Time Hard Mode DLC, so on and so forth. Majora's Mask took the excellent Ocarina, took what it had, and remixed it into something brilliant. Today we're going to begin out journey with Majora's Mask, stepping into the land of Termina and seeing what sights we will see.
> 
> As ever and always, updates are on Monday and Friday (as often as I can I've allowed myself some slipping as of late due to my life getting complicated for the better) and I would appreciate no spoilers for those who do not know what is to come. Which is unlikely to be anyone really, but better safe than sorry. So, without further adieu... let us begin.
> 
> *Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [1] Curses and Calamities*
> 
> *Video Length: 1:08:16*
> 
> Extra long episode, because the texture of Majora's Mask's opening sort of necessitates completion, in my opinion. And as far as Zelda games go, it starts rather quickly, but also takes quite awhile to get going. The Skullkid curses us to be a Deku, and that locks us in Clocktown quite handily, as well as limits a lot of what we can do! It serves as a pretty good basic tutorial of How This Game Will Work, while not feeling quite so stifling as to be annoying.
> ...





How the heck does skull kid blow that ocarina through the mask, is a question I've always mused.  

As you've pointed out, I am satisfied by rupee getting, however as you also mentioned to me, you missed one.  D:

Mad Deku Scrubs are mad.  Turn Link into Sad Duku Scrub.  I also really like the Tattle Tail pun between the two fairies.  

Zelda satisfying sound SMR list: Tatl chime, torch base spin pummel.  To be continued...

There are many theories about that deku stump.  Many think that its the dead form of the Deku Mask that link is currently wearing, but nothing in game ever confirms it.  There are some hints.

One thing that changed for hopping is this one has worse hopping.  You need momentum with a spin to have the hopping momentum, whereas in the original it gives you the speed automatically.  They really nerfed it and it killed me more times than I care to admit when playing the remake, haha.  Graphics wise, notebook wise and saving wise, I love the remake.  But there's some things they tweaked needlessly.  Bank is also moved in the remake, which I'm fine with.  I'll mention other things that are different as we encounter them, I've mainly played the original (though I have 100%'d this game).  

We in this episode have seen two masks that I personally own: Majora's Mask and Keaton's Mask.  We'll learn about Keaton's later, but it is indeed a cool mask!

Okay, the kids are hiding in different spots, in the original, there wasn't one in south clocktown.  Instead he's hiding in one of the boxes in east clock town.  The other one IS in the washing pool, but not usually under a box.  I also like that every unique playthrough is a different random combination.  

First Kill!  It says Skulltula, but that's definitely a Big Skulltula.  The kid's hideout is really great with the things they added like the drawings of things.  The old man is depicted in a drawing by the scarecrow on a little sheet of paper.  

The mayor has long hours.  10am to 8pm is 10 hour days....

The bomb shop has rocket launch models in it on one of the walls, which is pretty funnny.  Not EVERY character has a cow statue.  Only a specific number.  > . >

One thing that's fun about the last day is that the music is faster than usual, almost a manic rhythm.  Ah, you mention it, yeah I love that detail.  :D

Ah yes, hamfisting Zelda into the game so it can still be the Legend of Zelda.  Lmao.  The only problem I tend to have with the button mapping for the ocarina is i'm so used to the C buttons!  I therefore always have trouble with the new buttons...



*EPISODE 1 KILL TALLY!*

Big Skulltula - 1

Style Points - 0

Missed Rupees - 1



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 1_)
Skulltula, Big - 1

*Total Things Dead* - 1

*1st Place* - TBD
*2nd Place* - TBD
*3rd Place* - TBD

*Total Style Points* - 0

*Total Missed Rupees* - 1
*Total Lost Rupees* - 0

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## Rater202

I did some research: The Manga adaption and the _Hyrule Historia_ confirmed that the "Sad Tree" are the mortal remains of the Deku whose soul was merged with Link to turn Link into a Deku Scrub.

Skull Kid just up and murdered him becuase he wanted to screw with Link by turning him into a Deku.*Spoiler*
Show

Also, in-game yourself, if you have the Mask of Scents the Deku Buttler will comment that you remind him an awful lot of his lost son, and after the credits is shown mourning over the stump.

And apparently, the Dogs don't hate Deku Scrubs... They hate the Deku Butler's son and they can't tell the difference between you and him because, technically, you are him, or rather, he is part of you right now.

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## ShneekeyTheLost

So if Zodi loses rupees from time warping without depositing them first, would those count as missed rupees, or should we have a separate counter for those?

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## LaZodiac

> So if Zodi loses rupees from time warping without depositing them first, would those count as missed rupees, or should we have a separate counter for those?


I contest that rupees that get lost when time travel happens should take away from what I've gained and go to lost, but if that is too much trouble put them in the time void.

Also y'all are really excited to talk about a thing I was gonna wait to discuss arntcha  :Small Amused:

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## Rater202

> I contest that rupees that get lost when time travel happens should take away from what I've gained and go to lost, but if that is too much trouble put them in the time void.
> 
> Also y'all are really excited to talk about a thing I was gonna wait to discuss arntcha


In my defense, someone else brought it up first.

Unrelated: I went back and read your thread from your first Pcyhonauts let's play becuase... You got me hooked on it and I'm excited for the sequel later this month.

A few days ago the devs posted video on youtube talking about the powers... And it seems like lot of the powers you commented on as being useless have gotten a utility upgrade. (Notably, you're actually shown using the "use levitation to go over dangerous terrain" feature that was barely relevant in the first game.)

Gonna try and go back and watch those videos a little later.

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## LaZodiac

> In my defense, someone else brought it up first.
> 
> Unrelated: I went back and read your thread from your first Pcyhonauts let's play becuase... You got me hooked on it and I'm excited for the sequel later this month.
> 
> A few days ago the devs posted video on youtube talking about the powers... And it seems like lot of the powers you commented on as being useless have gotten a utility upgrade. (Notably, you're actually shown using the "use levitation to go over dangerous terrain" feature that was barely relevant in the first game.)
> 
> Gonna try and go back and watch those videos a little later.


Oh don't worry I was callin' you or anyone out, just observing how excited people are. And ooh, that's fascinating and pretty cool!

Also; Skyward Swordpants time!

*Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword HD [1] Skyward Swordpants*

*Video Length: 3:40:37*

In this one... we experience pain as I have to deal with controller drift on a game that REALLY does not want you to have controller drift. But we beat the first dungeon, so that's good!

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## Lord Raziere

Having to play both of these Zelda games....yeah I don't envy you right now Zodi, that could get pretty confusing and tiring. especially with Skyward Sword having motion controls so despite the same universe, the skills of one don't translate to the other, where normally if you play two games in the same franchise the controls are generally the same to make sure people can pick it up like riding a bike.

Also I didn't say anything on stream but I as your friend Zodi, I politely disagree with the assertion that Borderlands are bad games, I personally find them fun. if you don't oh well. guess I just like the combination of shooter and rpg stuff more as I get to customize my character's shooting abilities.

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## Rater202

I can't help but be amused that your first thought upon seeing a harp was to imagine using it as a weapon.

So, as a total Zelda Scrub whose knows consists of casual, wiki walks, stuff from the first three Smash Bro's games various re snippets, these last two videos, and a speed run of Link To The Past that was using the orignal Japanese text.

My understanding is that Skyward Sword is the chronologically first game in the timeline and establishes the Origin of the Triforce and the cycle of reincarnation wherein there's always a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon(dorf)

(I also understand that the timeline splits in three around the time of Ocarina of Time)

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## LaZodiac

> Having to play both of these Zelda games....yeah I don't envy you right now Zodi, that could get pretty confusing and tiring. especially with Skyward Sword having motion controls so despite the same universe, the skills of one don't translate to the other, where normally if you play two games in the same franchise the controls are generally the same to make sure people can pick it up like riding a bike.
> 
> Also I didn't say anything on stream but I as your friend Zodi, I politely disagree with the assertion that Borderlands are bad games, I personally find them fun. if you don't oh well. guess I just like the combination of shooter and rpg stuff more as I get to customize my character's shooting abilities.


I enjoyed playing Borderlands 2 solo, and playing them with friends can be fun. I think I was just being... hyperbolic.




> I can't help but be amused that your first thought upon seeing a harp was to imagine using it as a weapon.
> 
> So, as a total Zelda Scrub whose knows consists of casual, wiki walks, stuff from the first three Smash Bro's games various re snippets, these last two videos, and a speed run of Link To The Past that was using the orignal Japanese text.
> 
> My understanding is that Skyward Sword is the chronologically first game in the timeline and establishes the Origin of the Triforce and the cycle of reincarnation wherein there's always a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon(dorf)
> 
> (I also understand that the timeline splits in three around the time of Ocarina of Time)


This is correct on all counts.

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## Lord Raziere

> I can't help but be amused that your first thought upon seeing a harp was to imagine using it as a weapon.
> 
> So, as a total Zelda Scrub whose knows consists of casual, wiki walks, stuff from the first three Smash Bro's games various re snippets, these last two videos, and a speed run of Link To The Past that was using the orignal Japanese text.
> 
> My understanding is that Skyward Sword is the chronologically first game in the timeline and establishes the Origin of the Triforce and the cycle of reincarnation wherein there's always a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon(dorf)
> 
> (I also understand that the timeline splits in three around the time of Ocarina of Time)


Yes, Skyward Sword is chronologically the first. a full explanation would take too long, but basically from one the many "zelda timeline charts" I found from googling them basically breaks its down like this:
*Spoiler: Zelda timeline Chart*
Show






Though I'm pretty sure they've said that Breath of the Wild takes place AFTER all three timelines for some reason so somehow they got converged I think? its really weird, but basically, the three timelines is one where Link is defeated, two where Link is successful but the different timelines depend on which Era: Child Era goes back in time and successfully prevents Ganon's return but Navi leaves, thus prompting Link to search for her and stumble onto Majora's Mask. While the Adult Era is one the timeline left behind where Ganondorf did return but Link from seven years in the past defeated him then left to go back to his own time.....thus allowing Ganondorf to one day return in that timeline and lead to the events of Windwaker. while Defeat Timeline is basically there to explain why most of the earlier 2D games happened.

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## LaZodiac

Please note that chart is fan-made and not the canon one; it has additions and assumptions on it, like Hyrule Warriors (which is explicitly outside of time by it's own text) and includes things like the Satellaview and side stuff that is overtly and obviously not canon.

There is no official status of where Breath of the Wild is, with the only real evidence we have being inherently and intentionally contradictory- it is basically implied that it is a convergence but otherwise isn't... actually confirmed at all.

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## Rater202

Okay, that's about what I understood to be the case.

I also understand that Ruto is best girl and that that the cycle of reincarnation ins't 100% literal: It's always the same Gannon, but it's not always the same Link or ZeldaIIRC OoT/MM Link's ghost is a boss fight in Twilight Princess.

*Spoiler*
Show

And based on my reading up on Majora's Mask... I am about 80% sure that the "Fierce Deity" is Link's own counterpart from Terminia.

I mean, you put it on and it turns you into a bigger, stronger Link. Seems pretty obvious.

Termina is defined by being full of counterparts of people from Hyrule who are altered in some way.

What better a counterpart for a reincarnating eternal hero than a fearsome guardian deity?

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## TheWombatOfDoom

> I contest that rupees that get lost when time travel happens should take away from what I've gained and go to lost, but if that is too much trouble put them in the time void.
> 
> Also y'all are really excited to talk about a thing I was gonna wait to discuss arntcha


This is why I have a separate tracker for missed and lost rupees.  Missed are rupees you never pick up, lost are rupees you get and then somehow loose without regaining.  Typically in the past this has been theft, but I never thought about time theft!  Fortunately, Zodi does a good job of depositing prior to going back in time, so this will likely never come up, right?   :Small Amused:  

And my bad, I tried to be vague on purpose on the thing.  But then I added more to the end, oops.

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## ShneekeyTheLost

> Okay, that's about what I understood to be the case.
> 
> I also understand that Ruto is best girl and that that the cycle of reincarnation ins't 100% literal: It's always the same Gannon, but it's not always the same Link or ZeldaIIRC OoT/MM Link's ghost is a boss fight in Twilight Princess.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> And based on my reading up on Majora's Mask... I am about 80% sure that the "Fierce Deity" is Link's own counterpart from Terminia.
> 
> ...


To the best of my understanding:

*Spoiler*
Show

Ganon is and always will be the influence of Demise, the demon who invaded the reality which Hyrule is a part of after its creation. When he was defeated, he opted to spin it out, and cursed Zelda and the original Link to continue playing their fight out over and over. 

For Zelda, this means the royal bloodline, which will occasionally reincarnate Zelda as a new daughter and scion of that family lineage. 

For Link, however, it is more complex. Rather than a direct reincarnation (the Hero's Remains isn't a boss fight so much as... another mechanic in Twilight Princess. Not going to spoil it), it seeks someone 'worthy' to take up the Hero's Sword and take on the mantle of the Champion. It is less of a direct reincarnation and more like a typical Chosen One trope. Of course, once you are Chosen, even though you still have to prove yourself 'worthy', you aren't really permitted to give up. At one point, the save and continue mechanic of the game was literally the canon power of the Triforce to let Link Groundhog's Day his way through his trials. Death was not permitted to be release for him. Obviously, that got retconned if we have a 'fallen hero' timeline, since the two are mutually exclusive. 

Then again, I believe my opinion of the 'official' timeline is well known and established at this point, so I won't continue beating the dead horse. 


Hope that helps clear things up for you. 

Zodi has already done a Let's Play of Skyward Sword, as well as several other Zelda titles in the series. If you are curious, you can go back and watch them.

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## Rater202

Skyward Sword Zelda reminds me of Kairi from the manga adaption of Kingdom Hearts.

Manga makes her a more proactive character. Also makes her incredibly reckless and noticibly thirsty.

That's the vibe I get from Zelda here.

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## LaZodiac

Once more, mask time!

*Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [2] When We're Hylian*

*Video Length: 35:09*

In this episode, we finally get our face healed, and begin our winding path through the world. Short description since I suddenly have to go as I am writing this, will say more later.

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## DataNinja

Oh, the notebook's a neat thing. That's _super_ nice to have in game. I'm especially glad for the added notes, rather than just schedules.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what does and doesn't stay. The rupees, no, the items, yes... and I couldn't tell if the stray fairy was?

...okay, yeah, those maps look _super_ helpful, too.

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## ShneekeyTheLost

Wow, so many quality of life updates in this version. Would've made my playthrough a much better experience. 

When I first got the Great Fairy Mask, I thought it would be pretty trivial to rescue all the temple fairies. Boy howdy was I wrong. Gonna spoiler tag why. 

*Spoiler*
Show

So, the mask lights up when there's a fairy in the room you are in. Even if that room is multiple stories tall. You know how in OoT you had a central huge room that everything spun off from? Yea, that's gonna be a continued trend, and obviously there's a lot of real estate to hide fairies in such a large space. The other thing, drawing fairies to you... yea, none of the fairies (except maybe the first couple in the first temple as a tutorial?) are 'free range' to be drawn to you. So it's not as easy as just walking into a room with the mask on and letting them come to you. They're going to be trapped, and you're going to need to free them. Some are trapped in bubbles that need to be popped, some are in chests, some are... well, the list goes on. Suffice to say, you have to free them before you can rescue them. And that can get... pretty complicated.


FYI, the fairy in town at night is over by the Deku Bush by the Inn. You pop into the bush as a Deku, then pop up to collect it. 

In the original, the scene didn't end with the first hit on the bomb thief, he still ran around until he left, which left me confused on how to stop him. I didn't realize the first hit solved the 'puzzle'. 

For the Scarecrow Song, I used Beethoven's 5th intro. You know... duh-duh-duh-DUUUH duh-duh-duh-DUUUUH. It's simple, easy to remember, and easy to perform. 

We'll... get into the dancing mask quest when you finish it. 

As you said, in the original game, you get the book once you enter the hideout by giving the code without interacting with any of the bombers on that cycle. When you come back out, they're impressed you guessed their code on the first try, and want such an awesome guy to join their club, giving you the book. Given that it won't track anything until *after* you get the book, this can make a couple of things awkward if you don't immediately beeline for it, which can put other things off. 

I don't remember if the Scarecrow told you about the inverse song of time or not in the vanilla, but it's SUPER useful trying to get everything done in one cycle, especially if you're doing some of the more obnoxious quests or trying to dive a temple. 

The Deku transformation is creepy, but is by no means the worst transformation. Stay tuned, kids.

Bombchus are... ugh, clever idea, abysmal execution. I don't think they've ever been executed well in the entire series. The closest to a good implementation was bomb bowling from Skyward Sword. But good on ya for being able to beat those minigames! 

This game leans heavily on 'you use your curse to your advantage when and where you see fit', a motif that is revisited in Twilight Princess. It's an oddly hopeful message of leveraging what you feel is a disadvantage or disabling condition to achieve something most people can't. Given that I was going through chemotherapy when I got the GC and the Zelda Bundle with this title, I really found this message heartening. 

You'll notice that most of the assets in this game are reused from OoT. There are some new assets, but enough are reused, and so early in the game, that it gave the game a very 'we threw this together as a cash grab' vibe, at least to me. It wasn't until later that I was informed how short the development time was on the game. Which doesn't excuse lazy programming, but does at least explain it. They didn't have much choice if they were going to hit the deadline. So that's more of a corporate blunder than a developer being lazy. 

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. Can't wait to see the next episode!

----------


## Rater202

By the way Zodi, I went back and finished watching your original Psychonauts videos.

In one episode you make a comment about the term "firestart" and that it seems weird to you, wondering if it's a local dialect?

You've *probably* learned this since then, but just in case: It's probably a reference to _Firestarter_.

A Stephen King Novel about a little girl who can start fires by thinking about it(among other psychic powers) and the Government's attempts to capture her for study and use as a weapon. Was also made into a movie in the 84.

It's notable for popularizing the term "pyrokinesis," and little Charlie's powers are very similar to how Pyrokinesis is depicted in the Psychonauts series: Focus on the object and it bursts into flames and is rapidly destroyed despite no apparent source of fuel and no reason for the fire to burn that hot.

This Time: I was gonna say this last time, but I am reasonably certain that the Great Fairy is just floating there naked.

Like, last time you mentioned realizing that she wasn't wearing boots, she's just got footlike feat, but... I don't think she's wearing clothes. I think she just has vines and leaves as part of her body.

This game would be rated a lot higher than E10 if she was positioned differently.

"The future is everywhere" is a thing in general. We all carry around portable supercomputers that can wirelessly interface with the internet, the future is now.

"Wear a missing person's face to find them" is... Certainly a take.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Day One: 70.5 Hours Remain:* *Loop 2: Now with 43% more Hylian!*
Suddenly: PIANO!

I like the beat and cut to shaking Link there. the comedy and drama of the situation mixes quite well. we're dealing with some cursed stuff here.

Yeah I mask transitions when you don't skip them, I remember them being longer and with more sounds to hammer in that Link _is screaming and doubling over in pain each time you do this_ in the original version.

oh no its Tingle. why does he exist? just to make us suffer?

that is a change, the Song of Time having variations to further manipulate time is indeed useful, and the speed up one used to only jump you forward, not go to specific whens.

.....cucco.....*shudders*

those councilmen are just straight up idiots honestly. who doesn't notice the Moon having a FACE and getting CLOSER TO THE EARTH? See!? Even the jugglers see it, and they're too busy looking at each other!

ah, echoes of song of storms....always nice to listen to. 

Yes, the dance has been acquired. behold its movements. they're like a snake, a mysterious friendly snake with a swaying rhythm.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Oh, the notebook's a neat thing. That's _super_ nice to have in game. I'm especially glad for the added notes, rather than just schedules.
> 
> I'm still trying to wrap my head around what does and doesn't stay. The rupees, no, the items, yes... and I couldn't tell if the stray fairy was?
> 
> ...okay, yeah, those maps look _super_ helpful, too.


Great Fairies re-die when you restart a loop.




> For the Scarecrow Song, I used Beethoven's 5th intro. You know... duh-duh-duh-DUUUH duh-duh-duh-DUUUUH. It's simple, easy to remember, and easy to perform. 
> 
> We'll... get into the dancing mask quest when you finish it. 
> 
> As you said, in the original game, you get the book once you enter the hideout by giving the code without interacting with any of the bombers on that cycle. When you come back out, they're impressed you guessed their code on the first try, and want such an awesome guy to join their club, giving you the book. Given that it won't track anything until *after* you get the book, this can make a couple of things awkward if you don't immediately beeline for it, which can put other things off. 
> 
> I don't remember if the Scarecrow told you about the inverse song of time or not in the vanilla, but it's SUPER useful trying to get everything done in one cycle, especially if you're doing some of the more obnoxious quests or trying to dive a temple. 
> 
> The Deku transformation is creepy, but is by no means the worst transformation. Stay tuned, kids.
> ...


I'm not musically intelligent enough to translate that into the Ocarina. If you could advise that'd be swell. And he does tell you about it in the original!

Bombchu's are great in Spirit Tracks/Phantom Hourglass, whichever one of those had'em.

Hell yeah! I love stuff like that too.




> By the way Zodi, I went back and finished watching your original Psychonauts videos.
> 
> In one episode you make a comment about the term "firestart" and that it seems weird to you, wondering if it's a local dialect?
> 
> You've *probably* learned this since then, but just in case: It's probably a reference to _Firestarter_.
> 
> A Stephen King Novel about a little girl who can start fires by thinking about it(among other psychic powers) and the Government's attempts to capture her for study and use as a weapon. Was also made into a movie in the 84.
> 
> It's notable for popularizing the term "pyrokinesis," and little Charlie's powers are very similar to how Pyrokinesis is depicted in the Psychonauts series: Focus on the object and it bursts into flames and is rapidly destroyed despite no apparent source of fuel and no reason for the fire to burn that hot.
> ...


I legitimately do not remember finding that term weird at all. Huh.

Hey, she's got like... vines and stuff. That is technically clothing. I thought she just also had weird powerful lady boots as well.

You mean like Ocarina, which is WAY more... elaborate, with how it shows off all the various angles and poses of the Great Fairy? Cause that's a distinct difference between the two I remember.

THE FUTURE RULES! THE FUTURE RULES! THE FUTURE RULES!




> *Day One: 70.5 Hours Remain:* *Loop 2: Now with 43% more Hylian!*
> Suddenly: PIANO!
> 
> I like the beat and cut to shaking Link there. the comedy and drama of the situation mixes quite well. we're dealing with some cursed stuff here.
> 
> Yeah I mask transitions when you don't skip them, I remember them being longer and with more sounds to hammer in that Link _is screaming and doubling over in pain each time you do this_ in the original version.
> 
> oh no its Tingle. why does he exist? just to make us suffer?
> 
> ...


Clearly Tingle is meant to be Termina's mirror version of Link /sarcasm.

Honestly now that I think about it, I don't think Song of Storms is in this... I could use that as my Scarecrow song!

Behold, my charming dance!

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

If we consider the Ocarina to have five notes, and we number them 1-5 with 1 being the highest pitch and 5 being the lowest pitch, the intro to Beethoven's 5th would look like this:

1-1-1-3 2-2-2-4

----------


## DataNinja

> Great Fairies re-die when you restart a loop.


Ah, gotcha. So... "key items" like the Ocarina and Masks carry over between loops, but "quest items" like the fairies, the deed, etc. disappear?




> Bombchu's are great in Spirit Tracks/Phantom Hourglass, whichever one of those had'em.


Yeah, I was gonna point out the PH version. Mouse friends!

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Clearly Tingle is meant to be Termina's mirror version of Link /sarcasm.
> 
> Honestly now that I think about it, I don't think Song of Storms is in this... I could use that as my Scarecrow song!
> 
> Behold, my charming dance!


when I say song of storms, I mean the general melody, which is used in the accordion/windmill music. the only real difference I know between the two is the usual Song of Storms is played to be mysterious or epic, while the accordion version you first hear in the games sounds more like a carnival game or light and happy. its the same trick they use for the song of healing and the mask salesman's theme, where the usual of song of healing sounds more about how you expect it to sound: a bit somber but soothing. the mask salesmans theme is played with different instruments and sounds like someone expecting and explaining things if they are on an adventure. they also use the same melody for the song of time and the temple of time. its something they do to change the tone and feel of the music involved and it works really well, as often these themes are connected yet different.

also the theme that plays when the mask salesman talks about Majora's Mask is similar to the dancers theme you just got. which leads me to believe that the dance may in fact be apart of an old ritual involving Majora's Mask long ago, or at least be from the same culture that made Majora's Mask.

----------


## Rater202

> I legitimately do not remember finding that term weird at all. Huh.


While I'm on it: in your thread that corresponded to the playthrough, one of the commentators complained about the large number of "dead levels" in the Rank-Up system: a video from yesterday from the Doubefine Dev explains how powers are upgraded and customized: Now ranking up gives you points that you can spend on upgrading powers in whatever order you want instead of set upgrades at set levels.

Also, apparently, Raz canonically achieved a Psi-Cadet Rank of 101.

And now back to this: Let's talk about Tingle.

Tingle is a man who believes himself to be a fairy trapped in a human's body. He acts in ways that many would consider to be strange and his father considers him to be an embarrassment.

However, he is happy with his life and has a successful and (honestly probably exciting, considering how he goes about it) career as a cartographer despite his quirks and his father's shame.

I can't help but see a metaphor here.

----------


## LaZodiac

Oh hey, stream time happened!
*
Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword HD [2] Lanayru or Bust*

*Video Length: 4:23:06*

In this one, we head off to Eldin Volcano, deal with everything there, then dip a bit into Lanayru! Hope you all enjoy!

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (2)*
Show




> Once more, mask time!
> 
> *Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [2] When We're Hylian*
> 
> *Video Length: 35:09*
> 
> In this episode, we finally get our face healed, and begin our winding path through the world. Short description since I suddenly have to go as I am writing this, will say more later.





I feel like the mask salesman's piano is very similar to how our ocarina/other instruments happen.  

So in the original, you'd either have to "hack the code" to go in and leave, or play hide and go seek again and when you win they'll give it to you.  Oof, you number mixed, you did 23415.  It happens.

That reminds me as you killed the Big Skulltula (I'm still going to count each kill), but with time shenanigans, don't you end up only REALLY killing a certain enemy once?   Because we roll back all those kills when we go back in time?  Just curious what people think.  

That scale model is unique to the remake, and its fantastic!  the attention to detail in this game is so cool.  Hurray maps and note books!  They really are awesome in this one.  

Good timing on Goro-Link arrival!

Yo, Zodi gets some STYLE POINTS for finishing the maze with milliseconds left!  GG.

Hmmm, the honey and darling prize is very different, its just a heart piece in the original...instead its fishing (which spoiler alert - is new to the game).  I'm so used to the original, and having only played the remake once, I'm going to be surprised often I think.  By the way, you can jump to the tree to get the heart piece, you just had a shallow jump is all.



*EPISODE 1 KILL TALLY!*

Big Skulltula - 1
Red Chuchu - 1

Style Points - 1

Missed Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 2_)
Skulltula, Big - 2
Chuchu, Red - 1

*Total Things Dead* - 3

*1st Place* - TBD
*2nd Place* - TBD
*3rd Place* - TBD

*Total Style Points* - 1

*Total Missed Rupees* - 1
*Total Lost Rupees* - 0

----------


## DataNinja

> That reminds me as you killed the Big Skulltula (I'm still going to count each kill), but with time shenanigans, don't you end up only REALLY killing a certain enemy once?   Because we roll back all those kills when we go back in time?  Just curious what people think.


Eh, personally, I feel like keeping full track is probably more in keeping with everything. You're counting how many kills we make, not how many things are dead.  :Small Wink:

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Skyward Sword Stream 2:*
For a second I thought I was hearing the Final fantasy prelude theme at the start screen so I looked up both the great fairy fountain theme and the FFI prelude theme and played them both at the same time, and oddly they sound great together. they're different, but have the same vibe, y'know? though the FFI prelude is longer....

Ah Link, already causing random property damage to get rupees. The Hero of Courage has always been a property-destroying kleptomaniac, its just apart of the position really.

well you backflipped the first time, so perhaps the sky doesn't like it when you backflip and whistle? 

this is how Link eats pumpkins: just sticks on his sword and eats them whole. He is the Hero of Courage, his teeth are powerful enough to get through the thick skin.

y'know just a random thought: this is the first Zelda. it'd be really like this series for the very last Zelda game to somehow through time travel, tie back to the first in some time loop manner. like the Master Sword just somehow comes from the future and is sent to the past.

Beedle. Nooooo.....he is akin to the Tingle. I dislike him. Also, when does he sleep? he can't be human if he is constantly doing that, sooner or later he'd fall. Clearly this means he is some creepy alien being in a human disguise as I always he was deep down.

its not desecration, its pushstone graves, Zodi. its to emulate their flying mobility in life :P

the ducks need to sleep Zodi, thats why you can't fly at night. they're not a 24 hour service.

don't worry Zodi, Link is protected by the three goddesses so that his face only suffers easily recoverable cartoon scorch marks like a loony toons character, you can blow him up all you want.

this bug net business is making me think they got their animal crossing mixed up in this Zelda game.

yeah, "funny dressed character" could describe most significant people in speculative fiction, much less LoZ. you really got to narrow it down, Merco.

considering that there is LAVA behind link as Zanc says that.....eh it would be more dangerous than you think as it would be tackling Link into the lava. its phrased seemingly nonlethally but given the location.....

good thing you didn't get that gold rupee earlier or you'd be angry for doing so. 

we got star candy for the silly demon guy. 

thank you Fi for interrupting our fall to the Earth below with a report on where we can choose to fall flat on our face to. as always you are useful in you services to more efficiently get injured doing stupid stuff.

I would like a breath of the wild where the weapons don't break, then I would want to play it.

I have finished Dark Souls 3 with help from randos, I liked it. 
I am still working on Nioh 2 but finding it fun
I started Dark Souls 1, but am stuck on fighting the lava-spider lady, still like it
I only finished Sekiro by modding it so I can bypass some of the more difficult fights late in the game once I got tired of its nonsense with infinite items. like when I started getting insta-lightning sniped to death out of nowhere I felt justified in doing so. and when I got to the final boss and learned that it was four phases and every time you died was back to phase one, I felt even more justified. I didn't immediately just infinite-shuriken the final boss to death, I at only used it to bypass the first phase and try to do the other three phases or at least experience them in some manner before just ending it.

so....take that as you will when it comes to my thoughts on soulslikes.

if Zodi's a bakeneko, I'm calling Kitsune.

Remember kids: don't bomb and boulderdrive over lava with your feet. it never ends well.

yeah the dungeon has that certain ancient temple with serpentine dragon aesthetic. can see the inspirations for it quite well.

Eh, I dunno I think I'd be punching Impa in the face at this point in time if I was in Link's shoes. like I come all this way, I fought a bunch of monsters, defied death and you think you have the right to keep me from at least hugging Zelda and know what the heck is going on then tell me I'm a horrible hero just because she got there first as if its some competition? and thats if I'm generous, more realistically I'd be going "how the heck do I know I can trust you jerk, and that this isn't all some two-man con your running with Girahim to fool Zelda into doing something horrible? I have a sword, show me why I should trust you before I kill you next and take her back myself." because I don't know Impa at this point, I don't know whats going on, and she is antagonizing me when we first meet so its not exactly the right foot to start on, Impa. 

LINK HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH A LAND THAT IS 80% LAVA ALL THE WAY HERE. that is a bit more than a "shred of courage" that is foolhardy stupidity bordering on a deathwish! we past shred of courage a long time ago! I dunno guys, I'm not sure if I like this Impa so far. 

Eh, I don't think Zelda races are reskinned fantasy races, I think thats overgeneralizing them. they're just too different to compare or are probably inspired by completely different things. 

_Legend of Midna: Nightward Gun_

this ruins area has First Age Exalted vibes now that it is reactivated.

"Hah You can't blow up me! I ate your bo-" BOOM- the deku flowers probably.

The temple of time......its all coming together.

then I'm glad I haven't played Breath of the Wild, a lot of what it does just isn't stuff I'm interested in. I'm more a "character customization and make my own story" kind of person. Link is too much of an established character for me.

as for how you show off a game where you can do whatever you wish? if the internet is any indication, through speedruns and funny videos where the goal is something you make yourself and deriving humor from that goal. open world gaming is the kind of place where what is optimal or completeness isn't as important as whatever narrative you want to spin from what you do. its a place where you set your own goals rather going with something pre-set. oh you want to 100% it. oh. thats either foolish or brave of you.

But yeah real interesting how the desert area is here instead of ocean....with koroks....and lobsters in shells....and a bunch of raised areas.....totally going to flood at some point. I just know it.

----------


## Rater202

Bit of a delay watching the stream because...After finishing Zodi's Psychonaut's playthrough I started watching Lanipator's playthrough... 

(Darn you Zodi, you got me addicted to that Zim-Voiced Son of a Gun invading people's minds to give them a therapy.)

About 30 minutes into the video:

1: This Link tainted the rest of his descendants/future incarnations/inexplicably identical strangers from the future/ to be violent destructive kleptomaniacs, didn't he?

2: Upgrading a slingshot into a shotgun sounds like one hell of a technological leap.

3: If you're craving soup I will always recommend lemon rice. Most greek restaurants will always have it on the menu and it's relatively easy to make at home: Just cook rice in chicken broth and when it's done add a mixture of beaten eggs and lemon juice slowly into the chicken rice while constantly whisking. The hard part is juicing the lemons.

4: Pumpkin is a hit-or-miss thing. Some people love it and some people do not. An important thing to note is that Pumpkin Spice has _no pumpkin in it._ Pumpkin Spice is a blend of spices that compliment the flavor of a pumpkin, used in the making of pumpkin pie. Exact recipes vary, but "true" pumpkin spice consists of cinnamon(or cassia, which is often sold as cinnamon,) ginger, nutmeg, cloves, and sometimes allspice.

Cheap knock-off pumpkin spices are usually just cinnamon and either ginger or nutmeg.

5: Intersecting the pumpkin and soup trains of thought: "Pumpkin Pie" originally referred to a soup made of chicken broth, apples, onions, and cream cooked in a pumpkin and traditionally served in the same with everyone dipping their spoons into the same shell. There's a recipe for it in an episode of good eats I really want to try, sans the communal serving tradition because that's icky.

6: The sky shop seems really inconvenient to shop at.

----------


## LaZodiac

Mask time! Onwards to swamp!

*Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [3] Swamp Adventures*
*
Video Length: 37:26*

In this episode, we some side quests firmly know about and some masks less firmly attached to our face, lets get going to the first actual area of the game; the Great Swamp! We've got Dekus, we've got swamp monkies, and we've got the existential dread of all these lives hanging over us. Fun times!

----------


## DataNinja

Hmmm... this game is looking like one that's neat for me to watch, but I dunno if it's my style to play so much with the looping and repeating having to do stuff. Super neat concept, and it'll be interesting to see what they do with it, but...

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (3)*
Show




> Mask time! Onwards to swamp!
> 
> *Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [3] Swamp Adventures*
> *
> Video Length: 37:26*
> 
> In this episode, we some side quests firmly know about and some masks less firmly attached to our face, lets get going to the first actual area of the game; the Great Swamp! We've got Dekus, we've got swamp monkies, and we've got the existential dread of all these lives hanging over us. Fun times!





+1 Style Point for killing two bad bats at the same time.  I'm tracking them separately, because there are ALSO keese in this game.  They're smaller and not as black.  Thanks Nintendo, that's not confusing at all.  Bad Bats also can't light themselves on fire or on ice.

Let's talk chuchus.  So with my colorblindness, red and green look similar, and the later yellow ones look like green also, so i'm so glad they have items in them to help differentiate.  However, if you're full up on that item, they drop rupees instead of that item, so I can see an unseen slain chuchu due to camera angle messing me up some day.  We shall see!  This was my first encounter with Chu's in a zelda game, as I started with OOT, so that is why I always call them chuchu's, and not any of the other variations.  :)

Speaking of color: Looking at tingles comments, he comments that tatl is a white fairy...I always thought she was light yellow!

I miss whacking the statues to activate them...but I get why they changed it.  I agree, the owl statue changes are a little unnecessary.  Don't fix what aint broke!  Unless its better!  Is this better?  Eh...

They changed the way you jump as a deku, so they had to also change the lily pads.  N64 pond skipping is better.  If they hadn't moved the lily pads around, you wouldn't have made the jumps you were able to make prior.  I honestly love the remake, EXCEPT for the changes they made to the alternate forms.  Everything else is quality of life.  There's one other BIG controversial thing, but that will come later.  To clarify what I said in the first episode, it USED to be abount momentum, but now its always the same speed no matter what when you deku hop.  It feels more like a chore, and harder to control because its slower.

I have no idea how the skull kid was able to do ALL of these things at once unless he had the ability to duplicate himself.  Since it seems like everything he's done has JUST happened, and we see him mug the mask salesman in the lost woods, around the same area as us, so its assumed that he mugs us pretty quickly AFTER that, based off of our interaction with the Happy Mask Salesman after the intro.

Oh by the way, the picto box is just something you have now, instead of getting it from the swamp witch. 

Bean man used to be only able to be accessed through the gardens, but now they have that second hole as a shortcut.  I don't like some of these streamlined puzzles.  The outer hole you first access wasn't there at all.  Same with them throwing you out of the palace where you entered rather than always out front.  Ooof, you missed a lot of rupees that were out in the open this episode, for fear of making them lost rupees.  While I'm glad they aren't lost, for now they are missed.  These will become negative missed rupees if you collect them later.  We haven't had to deal with this much since Skyward Sword, because OoT mainly had invisible rupees if they were out in the open.




> Hmmm... this game is looking like one that's neat for me to watch, but I dunno if it's my style to play so much with the looping and repeating having to do stuff. Super neat concept, and it'll be interesting to see what they do with it, but...


I mean, the sections are closed enough that you can complete a quest in a short amount of time.  But there are helpful things, and you learn through trial and error, which is fun.  The rule i follow is if I think I need time, reset once I make progress so I can start from that point that IS saved, or start from my memory point when it ISNT saved.



*EPISODE 1 KILL TALLY!*

Eeno - 1
Leever - 1
Wolfos - 1
Bad Bat - 7
Red Chuchu - 3
Green Chuchu - 2
Deku Baba - 3
Mini Baba - 5
Snapper - 1
Big Octo - 1

Style Points - 1

Missed Rupees - 16
Lost Rupees - 11



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 3_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Eeno - 1
Leever - 1
Octo, Big - 1
Skulltula, Big - 2
Snapper - 1
Wolfos - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 5_
Baba, Deku - 3

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 28

*1st Place* - Bad Bat, at 7!
*2nd Place* - Mini Baba, at 5!
*3rd Place* - Red Chuchu, at 4!

*Total Style Points* - 2

*Total Missed Rupees* - 17
*Total Lost Rupees* - 11

----------


## Rater202

Just before 10: 50 thevideo skips forward a bit while the audio stays the same: I don't hear your commentary about giving the moon tier to the Deku in clock town until you've already done so and started flying back to the swamp.

I don't know if that's a problem on my end or on youtube's end but I've closed the tap and opened the youtube page a separate time and had the skip twice.

Something similar happened a while back in your Hollownight VOD if I remember correctly.

Video and Audio resynch at about 21 minutes.

Does anyone else have this issue?

----------


## DataNinja

> Just before 10: 50 thevideo skips forward a bit while the audio stays the same: I don't hear your commentary about giving the moon tier to the Deku in clock town until you've already done so and started flying back to the swamp.
> 
> I don't know if that's a problem on my end or on youtube's end but I've closed the tap and opened the youtube page a separate time and had the skip twice.
> 
> Something similar happened a while back in your Hollownight VOD if I remember correctly.
> 
> Video and Audio resynch at about 21 minutes.
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue?


No issue on my end. At 10:50 for me, she plays the song and gets enveloped in wings, audio's sync'd. Same with giving the tear and getting the deed.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 2, Day 2: Deku Palace March*
Thats one of the weirder mechanics of this game:
Wolfos: we are locked in mortal combat to the death you and I!
Link: hyeh, HYAH!
Wolfos: enough talk! HAVE AT TH-
*DAWN OF THE SECOND DAY 48 HOURS REMAIN*
*Link blinks and looks around*
*The Wolfos is nowhere to be seen, seemingly disappeared from existence*
*Link shrugs and continues traveling*

huh, guess they must've thought placing the song of soaring near the entrance of the first dungeon was bit too harsh with all the poison water around it.....

I think the swamp water gets purpler further in? yep, I remember right, poisoned farther in.

yeah having to do this the mystery woods thing multiple times is one of the reasons I probably never far into this game myself. 

as for the lilypad bouncing, I don't know, but I remember falling into the water being a lot more common in N64 for some reason? it might be more of a casual fan problem than someone who is used to the game, because someone who is skilled and played Majora's Mask a lot has probably memorized the path and knows not to waste the skips can probably go through the lilypads by heart, but a casual or new fan might not be that competent? also the lilypads miiiiight have been moving and/or able to sink at some point? though I might be confusing that for some other game.

yep, Deku Palace theme is cool. it has this stern feeling to it, as if there is low level of trouble here. 

your out of rupee space! and worse: you to endure...... THE OCARINA OF TIME PALACE STEALTH SECTION! AGAIN! BUT WITH DEKUS! the horror.

----------


## Rater202

two hours and 56 minutes into the Skyward Sword VOD...

Everything about Impa in that scene makes me want to knock out her teeth.

Yeah, you're late... You also had to stop and resupply more than once, were twice Waylaid by the Fancy Lad, and keep having to stop and help other people before they give you the things you need to physically get to places.

And the worst part is, you the player have no control over it: You can do the game with perfect Speedrun starts and you'll still be "late" so from a meta-perspective the game is criticizing you for how the game itself is scripted and programmed, which you have no control over. It's like MAss Effect 2 having everyone criticize you for working for Cerberus when the game literally won't give you any choice but to work for Cerberus. Or Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood Questline not giving you any chance to avoid killing the members of the Black Hand even though it's fricking obvious that the people you're killing are Dark Brotherhood and that your Dead drop's have been tampered with.

And then despite acknowledging you as the chosen one who is supposed to protect the Princess, she stops you from interacting with Zelda and won't let you go and protect the Princess. Who the hell is she to make that call?

Raziere is right, Impa needs to have some perspective knocked into her.

Edit: Regarding The Races of Hyrule

Breath of th eWild seems to retcon Rito being evolved from Zora, considering the two races coexist in that time period.

If the Zora are High Elves... Presumably, that's referring to the Sea Zora(who, despite their name, seem to primarily dwell in freshwater,) would that make the villainous "River Zora" (who paradoxically seem to be based primarily in a Bay, IE, seawater...) Dark Elves?

On the Kokiri and Koroks? Apparently, they are canonically the same race. Looking it up, the Kokiri are the descendants of Hylians who cut ties with civilization to live in the forest and were overtime affected by the magic of the Great Deku Tree, becoming youthful and faelike. Several generations after the events of Ocarina of Time, further exposure to the magic causes them to undergo convergent evolution and become similar to but distinct from the Deku.

And yes, it is confirmed that they'll start aging if they get too far from the Great Deku Tree's area of influence.

Edit 2: Regarding the He-Man Tangent... Considering that in the original series, which Revelation shares continuity with, Adam does not undergo any physical change whatsoever when he transforms into He-Man... The orignal series apparently gave a reason for a secret identity, but the more shocking thing is that nobody saw through it.

Like, literally. He gets super powers and his clothes change.

The 2002 series at least was believable: In that "Adam" is fit but is scrawny compared to literally every other male character. He looks like a kid in his late teens who does a lot of track and field type stuff, compared to "He-Man" who is a seven-foot-tall man who has clearly been living entirely on red meat and whole grain for his entire life while doing every body building exercise known to man on a daily basis literally from the moment he is physically able to do them.

That I can buy. OG He-Man? The other characters are just humoring him.

----------


## LaZodiac

Oh hey, Stream time!

*Zodi Plays: Skyward Sword [3] Witty Title*

*Video Length: 3:31:46*

Got kinda tired by the end of this one and I feel it shows, but otherwise a fun time!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Skyward Sword Stream 3:*
I'm more of a "fine both ways" kind of person. if a streamer is happy good, I can be entertained that, but I can also be entertained when they get mad- when its funny at least. sometimes the anger isn't always funny and its just annoying, because for the anger to be funny, it has to be the right KIND of anger y'know what I mean?

wow I'm glad I missed out on that ragestorm over this circle puzzle. that anti-Fomo moment.

a pufferfrog if you will.

don't worry Zodi. beamos don't have feelings or souls. they're just motion detectors that fire lasers. after all, designing a living thinking being to just stand in one place with no arms or legs to fire at whatever comes near them forever would just be unethical! and if these ruins are made by people worship the goddesses then they are the good guys of this universe and wouldn't do that.

it was probably mining metal, or those time crystals

ah yes, the gust bellows. so this is where that came from as well. why did they take two items from this game for smash bros?

too bad Zodi. Nintendo is obsessed with weird gimmicks they put in for no reason. the saving grace is that they often do these gimmicks once then never again. if they're bad this is good. if they are actually something you want because its good design its bad because they're not going to do it again.  

ah but its even crueler Zodi: those claws are also some of moldarach's EYES. its losing both an appendage to grab things AND sight at the same.

Talked a lot of trash there Impa. now you get knocked down like that, without even getting hit. Hm. also the "was I late?" line okay, thats a good payoff. 

Yes, it is good not to talk to fortune tellers. future not something you want to know! best keep uncertain, blank slate.

we now have obtained more thank you candy. 

Groose is sounding more and more like a Jojo character by the second...

yeah I can already tell this whole thing with Groose just won't end well. just won't end well at all. not character devleopment wise, but other ways

though he does have a point about destiny being stupid.

On the Imprisoned:
many designs for evil are to make them look terrifying, intimidating or vile. they are supposed to make them stand out so you can fight them, of which there are many successful examples of good evil visual design. this.......is not one of them. 

yes a horror of unspeakable power.....and unspeakably dumb design. mouth with feet. Kirby did it better.

......why did they design robots to be capable of hate?

yeah when turning people down you got to be definite. no percentages. its yes or no.

and perhaps Fi's singing might just be more expression of personality, I doubt she needs to sing them to help open things.

----------


## Rater202

Since Yziigra mentioned Rombus of Ruin? Psychonauts 2 is, apparently, a marked improvement over the orignal game in every capacity. Same humor, better storytelling, problematic elements ironed down or compensated for, and marked improvement in gameplay.(including optional quality of life things you can toggle on and off to cater the challenge to your tastes) There are some bugs in the PC version that need patching out though.

Onto proper thing: The time manipulation mechanic of this area is very interesting, but I can't help but think that turning all of these crystals on and off like this is going to wreak absolute havoc on the local ecosystem. Big chunks of the desert are now no longer desert, and desert critters _will_ wander into it.

...Also, none of the races introduced in this title have any evidence of their continued existence in other games, even those released after.

Angry can be funny, but I find that lets players who are enjoying themselves are more entertaining to watch long term.

...I'm going to have to go back and watch Spirit Tracks, aren't I?

The reason the blocks look like GameCubes is becuase they were built to last. A major selling poin of Nintendo products is that _they don't break._  It's commonly joked that Nintendo's products are infused with a rare element, Nintendium, that renders them indestructible.

Putting the electric baby hermit crabster into the thing so you can use it as a battery seems like an intentionally frustrating puzzle.

I too sometimes forget to sleep. I would have watched the stream Saturday night but got distracted watching three different people do character and plot analysis of King of The Hill and then it was Sunday morning.

As an aside, I am now convinced that Dale Gribble is secretly a high-level Superhuman whose moments of physical weakness are an affection done to throw people off due to his paranoia. The video that posited this was clearly in jest but some of the points they cite are actually valid reads of the situation. (Such as being able to shrug off hundreds of thousands of fire-ant stingsmany, many times over the lethal dose of fire ant venom.)

Knight's comment about defeating EA is quite timely; I just finished binging a Simpson Game longplay... Which has the plot element of EA enslaving characters from other games and the Simpsons working to defeat the video game industry, their creator Matt Groening, and ultimately God Himself after they realize that living in a videogame kind of sucks and they want to gain improved conditions by force. Really refreshing, a lot of games like that tend to blame the players for the character's predicament while the developers are left blameless.

...The Wobbafet comment makes me want Regional Pokemon based on other Nintendo properties. Get a plant-type Wobbafet modeled on these cactus, and a variant of the Squirtle Line that resembles Koopas. And throw in a region-specific pokemon that is transparently just a Metroid

I also have vibes harshed by people. Who else wants to go make our own continuity on an oil rig where we don't have all those damned people harshing our vibes?

...I am going to ignore everything you said about the brain being a muscle. For the sake of our friendship.

Link is developing an immunity to electrocution by deliberately allowing himself to experience non-lethal electrocution many times to condition his body to resist it.

Intentionally Frustrating Puzzle 2: Now more complicated.

Definition of Chair: Place where you sit. Note: This means that almost anything can be a chair depending on context. Honestly, Link should be able to regenerate just by sitting on the floor or one of the boxes.

Frustraiiting Puzzel 3: The *REEAAKONIING*

Oh my God, you're only just getting to the dungeon.

If we're going to talk about silly things in Zelda... How can fish people evolve into bird people, and why are their still fish-people when there are bird people.

Also, that frogger-fish is clearly full of hydrogen.

You should feel bad about killing the Beemos. They're completly sentient. With all their wants, and needs and a crippling fear of death.

...Link should be able to limbo under those electric lines on the conveyor belt.

The gust bellows are a vacuum that's stuck on "blow."

The magnets are probably an aesthetic choice: The dungeon is in the electricity zone, yaa know.

----------


## LaZodiac

I'll admit I was wrong about the brain. Working on old knowledge that I've never updated.

Explicitly the Gods changed the Zora to bird people in Wind Waker. Otherwise, divergent evolution. Zora and Rito can co-exist in a world, but in Wind Waker all Zora became Rito.

I have an inclination to try Psychonauts 2 but a part of me wants to like... do it blind for stream or video.

There may be a video today; I am tired and Going Through It, so we'll see. Thank you for your patience.

----------


## Rater202

> I have an inclination to try Psychonauts 2 but a part of me wants to like... do it blind for stream or video.


Well, good news then: Unlike the first game, the game is still playable after defeating the final boss. No need to mad scramble to get everything before the Point of No Return.

----------


## LaZodiac

Time to swing around my joy cons like a silly pants!

*Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword [4] Ancient Trans-tern*
*
Video Length: 2:52:42*

In this episode, we do the stuff needed to get to the Ancient Cistern, and then beat the Ancient Cistern. I then run out of energy because hoo boy, tired lately.

----------


## Rater202

I don't have very many thoughts on specific aspects of this stream...

But a lot of this feels like padding. Last time, after clearing the desert and beating up Samehada,  you got told who to talk to to learn the lyrics to a song that tell you were to find a song to get a plot coupon and then git the plot coupon you needed to get there, then actually got the song.

This time, you used the song to find out where to get the ability you need to clear the mini-dungeon and then they tell you to go back to the first dungeon to get the plot coupon to open the dungeon to go get the plot coupon you actually need to _progress the god-damn-plot._

If all of the flames are like this... Then I think the game was given a minimum necessary speed run length.

Also, I'm going back and watching your spirit tracks playthough.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I don't have very many thoughts on specific aspects of this stream...
> 
> But a lot of this feels like padding. Last time, after clearing the desert and beating up Samehada,  you got told who to talk to to learn the lyrics to a song that tell you were to find a song to get a plot coupon and then git the plot coupon you needed to get there, then actually got the song.
> 
> This time, you used the song to find out where to get the ability you need to clear the mini-dungeon and then they tell you to go back to the first dungeon to get the plot coupon to open the dungeon to go get the plot coupon you actually need to _progress the god-damn-plot._
> 
> If all of the flames are like this... Then I think the game was given a minimum necessary speed run length.
> 
> Also, I'm going back and watching your spirit tracks playthough.


Every other flame adventure is better, this one just... drags, a fair bit.

Hope you enjoy!

----------


## Rater202

> Every other flame adventure is better, this one just... drags, a fair bit.
> 
> Hope you enjoy!


My first thought on Ghost Zelda trying to get her guards attention is that at some point she should have shouted "Hey, Listen."

Edit: You almost literally drove in a circle to get to the forest sanctuary.

----------


## LaZodiac

Another Skyward Swordstream! Majora's Mask will resume this Monday.

*Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword HD [5] Time Boat Time*

*Video Length: 4:05:39*

In this one, we do all of the Sand Sea stuff, including the best dungeon in the game... and then all the lead up to the last dungeon. Woo!

----------


## Rater202

"I'm a devious little devious" is my new favorite line.

Was gonna say this last time but I forgot: I don't mind that the water dragon has a human-like face.

I have a problem that she was wearing clothes.

Clothes are a human invention, created to protect us from the elements.

That dragon was neither human nor a human analog, but instead, a powerful majestic creature analogous to a minor deity. She has no need to have clothing, especially since they could have just given her fins or scales that evoke the same aesthetic.

And with the rest of her body being so inhuman, it's not like there's anything that needed to be covered up for modesty's sake... Not that that's ever been an issue with Zelda: See the Zora, the Twili, and probably some other examples I'm forgetting because I'm not a Zeldaholic.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Skyward Sword Stream 5:*
this first song you you played sounds like the FFI opening theme sped up.

definitely much less straightforward than the courage one, yes. the last is going to be a test of Power, and its just going to be hard isn't it? Link trials are collecting snooze buttons on these guardians alarm clocks.

the power of wisdom is being Spiderman/Batman apparently.

that bomb just waiting to blow up throughout the dialogue....

Lanayru got Dark Sun'd real hard

.....my guess for the sand sea....is that they simply made it always like that, but put a sand texture to get rid within a certain radius. the sand doesn't need to do much, so its probably just water. 

a house that looks like my head? you've have a very red and extensive roof then! 

yeah cactus juice is very quenching. just ask Sokka! 

Eh, good trap to use on Link. for anyone else, its pretty much useless and your better with something more general. especially if your some man-eating plant like a deku baba. 

how do robots even HAVE sons!? heartwarming as it is, it makes no sense.

these cart rides remind me of the ones from Super Paper Mario in Floro Caverns, except more insane. I guess Nintendo was going through "hey lets spice up mine cart ride sequences" mindset at the time.

the timeshift stone is pretty cool. Nintendo just casually making mechanics that could be entire games just to be one gimmick of one of the iterations of Link.

puzzles like that to open a door with sword strikes are the true test of wisdom

guess Nintendo was also on a "lets fight undead pirates" kick as well, since Thousand Year Door had Cortez....

Fi is someone who would helpfully inform you that you need air to breathe and how that happens with a straight face and not realize she is stating the obvious no matter how much you give her a sardonic look.

they are generous with the hitboxes for the range weapons here, they knew that motion control was going to be awkward.

yeah, its always cool in videogames where you can snipe between things like bars and handrails like that. more than a few kills in my recent playthrough of Borderlands the Presequel was sniping guys heads off through handrails because they were crouched.

well here is the problem with time-shifting with Tentalus: if you want to be completely consistent......and you HAVE to be consistent with these sorts of things as a setting consideration....if you included timeshift in that boss fight? Link hits timeshift crystal, Tentalus becomes bones and stops living. Link then just walks away after an easy victory. they couldn't put timeshift into that, because if time shift was used on that boss, it would end that boss in one strike. now you could do something interesting with Tentalus having a future skeleton form that you also fight and its constantly time shifting back to the past where its more alive and you have to time shift it to the present to kill it a second time while its undead, or the entire fight is trying to knock the time crystal from its grasp so you can hit it once and it just vanishes from existence. I could see ways like that. but they didn't go with that for whatever reason so....shrug.

things like this justify my dislike of Beedle. seriously, he is like the Tingle of this game and Wind waker.

because this the POWER test, Zodi, of course its cruel! you test power, by throwing you into a hell where you demonstrate how powerless you really are. its completely logical if you don't think about it.

you were just prepared to thank Water for subscribing Zodi, which you didn't do, why didn't you thank H20 itself for doing that?  :Small Tongue:  

I don't mind escort quests by themselves, its when they are clearly not designed well that get annoying because the escorted is stupid, easily killed or just causes too much trouble to want to protect them.

the big pot apparently has teleportation powers.....or the dragon just sensed that its purpose was fulfilled and took it back because its magic.

----------


## Rater202

> how do robots even HAVE sons!? heartwarming as it is, it makes no sense.


Like this.

So, something I've been thinking about. Did some research.

So, as I understand it: The Goddess Hylia was able to manifest her power as a Greatsword that only she could wield, a manifestation of her power to destroy Evil.

Later, this sword was reforged into a Longsword, concentrating its power and putting it into a form that could be wielded by her champion, creating The Goddess Sword.

Eventually, Hylia's champion died and Hylia gave up her immortality to ensure that she and he would always be reincarnated together, which eventually lead to the first Link and Zelda.

the First Link inherited the Goddess Sword, and over the course of an adventure traveled to channel three flames that imbued the Sword with a portion of the power of the three major Goddesses who created this world, both magnifying its evil slaying properties and making it a more powerful sword in general, culminating in its transformation into the Master Sword.

In the various branches of the timestream, later incarnations of Link would further enhance the master sword.

So the question I have to ask is... By the later games in the timeline, how does anything Link cuts not die instantly?

----------


## DataNinja

> So the question I have to ask is... By the later games in the timeline, how does anything Link cuts not die instantly?


Pretty sure various games have evil draining the power of the sword, so it must be restored. So each hero is more or less refilling the jug with water, rather than adding to it.

----------


## Rater202

> Pretty sure various games have evil draining the power of the sword, so it must be restored. So each hero is more or less refilling the jug with water, rather than adding to it.


That would be a valid answer... If it wasn't for the fact that BOTW establishes that the sword recharges and repairs itself slowly between Links, and the fact that other than the seemingly permanent upgrades in this game most upgrades I can find are things like "we retempered the sword to make the metal stronger" or "we honed and sharpened it some." which, due to the aforementioned self-repair ability, would be permenant.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Like this.


That just raises further questions! [/Hermes Conrad]

----------


## Qwertystop

> That would be a valid answer... If it wasn't for the fact that BOTW establishes that the sword recharges and repairs itself slowly between Links, and the fact that other than the seemingly permanent upgrades in this game most upgrades I can find are things like "we retempered the sword to make the metal stronger" or "we honed and sharpened it some." which, due to the aforementioned self-repair ability, would be permenant.


Depends. In WW, for example, the sword has not been sitting idle since OoT, it's been actively maintaining a localized time-freeze. That might be net-negative or at least net-even with its maintenance.

----------


## Rater202

> Not that that's ever been an issue with Zelda: See the Zora, the Twili, and probably some other examples I'm forgetting because I'm not a Zeldaholic.


I am now imagining a Zora, a Twili, and a Goron traveling the kingdom trying to figure out why humans wear clothes and getting increasingly frustrated with everyone's refusal to answer.

----------


## DataNinja

> That would be a valid answer... If it wasn't for the fact that BOTW establishes that the sword recharges and repairs itself slowly between Links, and the fact that other than the seemingly permanent upgrades in this game most upgrades I can find are things like "we retempered the sword to make the metal stronger" or "we honed and sharpened it some." which, due to the aforementioned self-repair ability, would be permenant.


Oh, well, I've never played BOTW, so... *shrug*  :Small Tongue:

----------


## LaZodiac

Right the stream video! I've been very tired lately.
*
Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword [6] Dragon Quest*

*Video Length: 4:58:49*

In this, we finish up the last of this set of dungeons, and do... all of the dragon stuff leading up to the final dungeon. Woo boy! I also get a bit salty cause I've been exhausted lately ooops.

----------


## Rater202

Not gonna lie, my first thought when you were fighting Ghirahim again, when his cloak and gloves disintegrate, was "Oh no, he's getting naked!"

Edit: If Groose invented rails then he kind of is indirectly responsible for, you know, the Spirits sealing away the Demon King from Spirit Tracks.

Can't use railways to seal something away if rails don't exist.

Edit 2: I actually shouted out loud "why would you do that!?" when you threw the cat over the edge. I don't care that he kitty is okay, that was _mean._

----------


## LaZodiac

My apologies for throwing the kitty, it was one of those kneejerk reactions. I will give the kitty a good pet later as recompense.

----------


## Rater202

Two Hours and forty-nine minutes in... So. Much, Padding.

I can't help but feel that they could cut enough content that you could have finished this two streams ago and it would still feel like a complete game.

I'm not opposed to long games but this is just stretching it out for the sake of stretching it out.

----------


## Lord Raziere

now that I'm done playing the second chapter of Deltarune, and dealing with the headache that resulted from that for some reason, time to watch this.

*Skyward Stream 6:*
these trees look like weird cacti.

personally I'd just assume all the bokoblins are horny at this point Zodi, got to kill them before they blow at the sight of Link.  :Small Amused: 
what do you mean by "phrasing"? I was referring to the fact they were carrying horns and were using them to alert other bokoblins of Link's presence
oh no its.....a DARK LIZALFOS! *dun dun DUUUUUUUUUUUUN* remember when you need more enemies but ran out unique assets, simply recolor them and add an extra descriptor to the name. 

ah yes. the Nintendo fans eternal lament: that anything outside the three main series of Mario, Pokemon or Zelda get any attention at all except when its Fire Emblem.

look the game designers didn't know what else to put in that third mole's chest, they had something better planned for the boss key, and if someone was really dead set on a minimum heart run, getting one heart piece wouldn't change their total. 

Link just casually falling towards lava with his arms outstretched towards a platform he can't see. I can imagine him with sunglasses just being chill while he does this.

this key doesn't even make any sense, some of the cubes shouldn't even be connected.

look all Girahim really is, in terms of villainy, is a worshipper of Slaanesh. 

look: standing on a sword while someone else is holding it is a wuxia trick, kay? its something old masters do to screw with their sword martial art apprentices when they're not fighting seriously. somehow it like many other tropes spilled out elsewhere. realism is thrown out on the assumption that they're using chi to make themselves basically incredibly light and capable of balancing on anything, sword-balancing isn't even the most ridiculous thing you can pull with that trick.

okay the hands make the Imprisoned a *slightly* less stupid. but no more dignified. and so it is dead for the second time. its laughable form is probably why it became a Ganon.

I've played maybe an hour of Witcher 3 and only because my brother recommended the game to me. I've played more of Gwent because its strategy focus and it being a card game that relies more on you being smart than random luck of the draw.

CROSS THE GATE OF TIME....BEYOND WHICH ALL SHALL CHANGE! INTO THE PAST-WHERE NOTHING SHALL BE THE SAME!

whats wrong with RTS's? are you talking about modern ones, because I'm an Age of Empires 2 fan. oh, because brutal legends? I don't know what that is, but that doesn't sound like RTSes fault, that sounds like the people who made Brutal Legend's fault.

agh, its so unfortunate the stream is choppy because I want to read Zelda's explanation about Demise and Hylia but it keeps stopping and skipping. 

Link is just listening to Zelda explain all this wide-eyed silently thinking to himself: "oh my her, I'm in love with a goddess reborn. why me?"

lying to Groose about Zelda. why do I have the feeling this won't end well? Yeah this whole thing with Groose is going too well too fast. something bad is going to happen, I just feel it.

"I hope you get through it and that they die"- Zodi, stop your making me laugh every time you say that with a happy straight face. hahaha.....my sense of humor is dark.

Hmmm, but perhaps Fi knows! the Tri-Force seems like something she'd know about. Or at least should.

I think they intentionally moved Owlen here just to confuse the player and pad play time.....

ZELDA WHY!? WHY DID YOU MAKE A DOLL OF.....THE FAIRY-GOBLIN-MAN? WHY DID YOU PREDICT THIS FUTURE? WHY!?

"Its kind of weird they never mentioned that we had a sky whale god or that it went missing."-well thats Nintendo worldbuilding for ya: only mention if its relevant to the task your doing. if its not relevant, it doesn't exist. Thats why you get a bunch of mario games that don't seem to be consistent with one another because they don't even try, a bunch of pokemon games that always set itself in a different region without mentioning others much, and you get Legend of Zelda games where Hyrule doesn't seem to have any consistent geography between its many eras. because despite Nintendo's many talents (making fun game mechanics and gimmicks, characters with as few words as possible, storytelling and so on....) consistent well thought world-building was never one of them. their worlds are built to be bare-bones and only provide enough information to keep your focused on playing, not to make actual living worlds that make sense, they're minimalist like that. 

what from Thousand Year Door was padding? I'm an OG first-three Paper Mario fan, and um....I don't think the Doopliss thing was padding, that was countering a villain who was playing smart. now trying to find General White for the cannon to shoot the moon, that was padding because you go all across the land just to find him sleeping in his bed then wake him up, even though you saw him on the side throughout the entire game and if you went there early without talking to the people about where he was he wouldn't be there so you can't just sequence break if already know where he is. see? Yza knows the real padding even if I disagree with them on Vivian's chapter. 

I don't hate or fear water levels, I just find them slow and clunky and thus a bit annoying, so I wouldn't play Subnautica either. but then Subnautica is also one of those survival games where you build a bunch of stuff just to be in an isolated place for no reason so I wouldn't play it just for that alone. 

so water, forced stealth......is this like a tour of the three things that everyone hates in videogames? will we get darkness in the final one? 

Fi isn't a Reyvateil, where is the romance between her and Link where we delve deep into her psychology by linking up with her mind? and why isn't the bow the second weapon you get with its own robot girl to be the rival in love?

Yup, real crackly stones, bones are.

the Thunder Dragon's eye sockets glowing yellow blink was the signal for "I give you permission." 

....I need to get around to watching Vento Aureo, its the only Jojo part I've been lazy on.

I'd say its more likely that Link is simply being protected by divine magic from the time stones because they're y'know, the chosen hero? and that all thes tricks with timestones simply doesn't work with anyone else, because anyone else would cease to exist the moment they activate them.

why didn't you take out your shield?

yeah you have to understand guys, Link is basically a murderbot. he slaughters everything in his way without mercy. he exists to be Zelda's weapon, not even the ants are safe.

too late I'm thinking about time travel because I like going to weird places. How the tree was there depends on the model of time travel your using:
-the first explanation is of course, simply that Link is now in a parallel timeline where that tree was planted in the temple and not in Lanayru desert and the Groose we meet isn't the Groose we left, and now there is a treeless timeline out there that is just doomed because Link never came back, so its both always there and not there technically.

-the second explanation is that the detail of where the tree was planted wasn't important enough to impact to impact the timeline around it in any meaningful way, and thus the single timeline can handle  the impact as long as its not too large- after all there is tons of details that are lost to history, so does it really matter the specifics of HOW something happened as long as people remember it happening the same way? only Groose and the old woman is affected and Groose probably doesn't know its significance  as Groose probably didn't notice the lack of a tree there all that much, probably too busy building his catapult while the old seer knows enough not to tell, so it wasn't always there, but whether or not it wasn't, isn't "important" enough to matter to history. who decides what matters and what doesn't? the goddesses of course. they control time so they can cheat in Link's favor.

-another explanation is that the tree was never _meant_ to be planted in Lanayru. perhaps Demise is more cunning when not being a stupid muppet monster and thus made sure the robots would plant the tree somewhere useless, screwing up the timeline. Link's role was actually _correcting_ it back to where it was always meant to be and Groose was always meant to have this reaction. meaning it was always there, even before it was there, because it was meant to be there.

-a fourth explanation is that there is a meta-timeline above the usual timeline, this meta-timeline keeps track of all time travel events and the state of the tree before and after the replanting was apart of the meta-timeline above the usual one. there is simply many layers to time and Link was working on a different layer of time there.

----------


## LaZodiac

It's not that RTS games are bad, I just don't like them personally and get a little bummed when a game that could be really cool to play is an RTS instead. Brutal Legends is an RTS game on consoles (and recently on PCs) that presented itself as a Jack Black rock music tribute aesthetic beat'em up character action game, and it extremely burned me.

The stream and video are perfectly fine on my end I do not know why it's choppy for others...

I feel like Nintendo is better at world building consistency than that, but you're not wrong. Usually it's better in games like Metroid.

I mean given what bones are made of, they ARE stones. Bones are rock that bleed!

----------


## Rater202

I can't help but feel that Link punching someone while wearing the diggy diggy mole mittens would seriously hurt someone.

Also thank you, Zodi, for the "bones are rocks that bleed" thing, it's reminded me of a concept I've always been particularly fond of and giving me ideas for a thing.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I feel like Nintendo is better at world building consistency than that, but you're not wrong. Usually it's better in games like Metroid.


Well I haven't played a Metroid game in my life and I've heard that franchise is infamous for being put on the backburner. To me, Samus is a Smash character. So I wouldn't know how well they do Metroid, but that doesn't sound like a win to me. 

@ Brutal Legends that.....doesn't sound like any RTS I've played, but then what I've played are Age of Empires 2 and 3 and Stellaris, and those are pretty slow and strategic, at about the same pace as Civ 6 which I'm playing now which is turn-based.

----------


## Rater202

What happens if you turn off the time rock after curing the Thunder Dragon?

----------


## LaZodiac

> What happens if you turn off the time rock after curing the Thunder Dragon?


He's completely fine and nothing happens. I'll likely show that off next time.

----------


## Rater202

Not gonna lie, I was totally expecting that Groose would turn out to be Gannandorf in a "Nobody to Nightmare" scenario. And they'd make it clear in some goofy way like "I will be with Zelda, or my name isn't Groossannon Dorfowitz" or something.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Not gonna lie, I was totally expecting that Groose would turn out to be Gannandorf in a "Nobody to Nightmare" scenario. And they'd make it clear in some goofy way like "I will be with Zelda, or my name isn't Groossannon Dorfowitz" or something.


Yeah that was my expectation to, but more tragic because he interferes with Demise's return so Demise being insulted by not only being foiled by the chosen hero of legend but this mere oaf when some use dark magic to infect him and he'd be this hero and Demise would be defeated, but at the cost of Groose turning evil and Link and Zelda not wanting to kill their good friend, seal him away despite turning evil and thats why Ganon would eternally reincarnate because they would hope that Groose would one day be cured of evil. But apparently no, he just has this weird resemblance to Ganon. kind of disappointing.

----------


## LaZodiac

Oops I did forget to post this thanks for the reminder >_>

*Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword [7] Kill The Sword*

*Video Length: 2:43:05*

Genuinely just got caught up spending time with my beloved, completely blanked on doing this lol. We finish up Skyward Sword! Is a good game, glad to have revisted it. The Switch remaster is pretty alright, though as I do say in video it's weirdly finicky compared to the original in terms of keeping the controller synced.

----------


## Rater202

> Oops I did forget to post this thanks for the reminder >_>
> 
> *Zodi Streams: Skyward Sword [7] Kill The Sword*
> 
> *Video Length: 2:43:05*
> 
> Genuinely just got caught up spending time with my beloved, completely blanked on doing this lol. We finish up Skyward Sword! Is a good game, glad to have revisted it. The Switch remaster is pretty alright, though as I do say in video it's weirdly finicky compared to the original in terms of keeping the controller synced.


That is perfectly understandable.

By the way, if you ever do play Psychonauts 2... Take the time to explore and talk to people between levels. There's a subplot with certain characters that just... Don't happen if you don't take the time to seek them out and talk to them between levels and the minor background characters all have arcs going on in the background.

There are also a lot of different things I'd genuinely be interested in hearing your thoughts about.

----------


## LaZodiac

> That is perfectly understandable.
> 
> By the way, if you ever do play Psychonauts 2... Take the time to explore and talk to people between levels. There's a subplot with certain characters that just... Don't happen if you don't take the time to seek them out and talk to them between levels and the minor background characters all have arcs going on in the background.
> 
> There are also a lot of different things I'd genuinely be interested in hearing your thoughts about.


Yeah if I were to stream Psychonauts 2 I would play it how I play these games; lingering and staring and talking to everyone. I only rushed Psychonauts 1 because I've already done that, mostly  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rater202

> Yeah if I were to stream Psychonauts 2 I would play it how I play these games; lingering and staring and talking to everyone. I only rushed Psychonauts 1 because I've already done that, mostly


Also, unlike the first game, certain characters will have their clairvoyant image of Raz change as the story progresses and their opinions of him change.*Spoiler*
Show

And this applies to the previous game as well. While Sasha still sees Raz as a younger version of himself, Milla now sees Raz as... Well, I don't know _what_ she sees him as, but it's represented visually as Raz dressed like Austin Powers.

----------


## LaZodiac

Ooops it happened again. Not that that's a bad thing.

*Zodi Plays: Halo 4 [3] Halo Four Runner*

*Video Length: 55:22*

Pretty lengthy level, but given it is introducing new weapons, new enemies, new big name threats, and new things to grouse over with Em to the point of rambling for like ten minutes after the level actually ended, not a big surprise!

I like the little robot buddies. I like the stupid hologuns. I think the porcupine head can get dunked. I'm excited to hear all of you react to our reactions. Hope you enjoy, and have a good day!

----------


## Rater202

I was under the impression that you had a separate thread for Halo stuff.

More on topic: I've done some research and I'm pretty sure that you could do an entire Harem Comedy about the Hero of Time incarnation of LinkOoT and MMwith the number of girls and women interested in him at various points in time and the ship-teasing he gets.

And he grew up in a society of magically immortal eternal children so he has no idea why everyone is so interested.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I was under the impression that you had a separate thread for Halo stuff.
> 
> More on topic: I've done some research and I'm pretty sure that you could do an entire Harem Comedy about the Hero of Time incarnation of LinkOoT and MMwith the number of girls and women interested in him at various points in time and the ship-teasing he gets.
> 
> And he grew up in a society of magically immortal eternal children so he has no idea why everyone is so interested.


... ah dang I put it on the wrong thread damn oh god.

I'd like to apologize, just this once, for how much I've slipped again schedule wise. Between a bout of personal depression, plus my dealing with it via binging FFXIV, and now recovering and spending time with loved ones has lead to me just completely dropping the ball on Majora's Mask. This will be attended to tomorrow, I promise. Friday, we return to Termina.

----------


## LaZodiac

Cowboy times here again!

*Zodi Streams: Call of Juarez Gunslinger*

*Video Length: 3:55:17*

Gunslinger! A classic! We play the whole dang game; it's pretty okay.

----------


## Rater202

I believe the term you're looking for, 20 minutes in the duel what never happened is "quickdraw."

Also, clearly, Paper Imp Zodi is Zodi's archetype projection.

Edit: If I had to hazard a guess, "all hat and no cattle" means putting on the pretense of being a cowboy without actually being a cowboy. An actual Cowboy was someone who worked for a rancher, taking care of the cows in the field, protecting them from rustlers, and in the case of beef ranches, driving them down where they'd be slaughtered.

"He's got the hat, but he's never worked with cattle a day in his life."

Or maybe "he talks the talk, but he don't walk the walk."

Edit 2: Regarding what it means to be American, please. Everyone knows that you can't call yourself a man* in America until you've shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. Specifically. It has to be Reno, shooting a man in Vegas doesn't count.

*"Man" here refers to an ideal of masculinity relating to strength and maturity rather than biological sex or gender identity. You can still fit the platonic ideal of a man without literally being male mind or body. Look, English is a weird language, okay. I don't make the rules.

Regarding the psychonauts tangent, while Razputin was born in America, ethnically he's eastern european* with his parents being first-generation immigrants. This makes him no less American in terms of citizenship, but he may not have fully assimilated all of the quirks of being American. As it is, he drowns in water, while Americans, being as Raziere alludes to, dissolve like vampires.

*It's unclear if he's still intended to be Romani or if that was retconned in order to sidestep the use of a problem termwhen the subject of his ethnicity comes up, he refers to himself as being "Grulovian," after the country his father is originally from... Though he clarifies that he's only "half" so he could still be Romani on his mother's side, or perhaps that Grulovian Romani consider themselves Grulovian, or that Raz was refering to nationality rather than ethnicity.

----------


## LaZodiac

Another stream; this time with a very special and beloved guest of mine.

*Zodi Streams: Counterfeit Monkey [1] Literally Twisting Words*

*Video Length: 3:24:30*

Fresh from getting smushed from two people into one full person, we've got to navigate our way out of Atlantis. The only thing at our side is a letter remover of taking out one-but-all-instances-of out of words. Turn a code into a cod, just a thicket into a ticket, so on and so forth. What will this text adventure make us do and say to get out of his perilous predicament? Who knows! But it'll also be rad as heck!

----------


## Rater202

I don't really have thoughts for this time... I'm not normally into text adventures and the like.

But some thoughts I had last time that I didn't share becuase I figured I'd edited the post enough and then nobody posted anything else.

"Sioux" is pronounced "See-Oh" and while I normally _hate_ the "Magical Native American" trope with a passion, "the soul can have no rainbow if the eyes have no tears" is a good line.

Beyond that I was surprised as how good the story of that game was. You don't normally see Arcade Shooters with such a compelling plot.

----------


## Qwertystop

Hello! I was the scribble of names in the other corner!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Counterfeiting A Mankey:*
This game's premise makes me think of some of the weirder more esoteric ttrpgs I've come across with strange abstract powers. could make something based on manipulating words.

....I wonder what would've happened if you answered "No" at the beginning. just be sarcastic right out of the gate, see how the game reacts.

Yeah, we don't want to Z-remove Zodi. Then she will just be an Odi, and get tricked by Garfield.

remove p's from apple, get ale.

Sot the history of this world is basically during like the Industrial revolution, everyone discovered reality was word-based instead? and all of religion and science had to revise itself as a result. writing dictionaries became a thing of war and power, because if you can change a words definition or spelling, you can change how people use all this tech to do this or that. wouldn't want someone to rename something like common like "rocks" into something long so you can remove one letter or another to get like, a bunch of riches out of nowhere or something. and thats just the application I can think of. 

and yeah, with this system, find a bunch of monkeys, k-remove them to get money, invest all that money into stocks before the cops find you, and your basically set for life.

huh, you CAN turn stuff like a scarf or a chard into cars. though really, one wonders why this world didn't redefine its words into various shortenings of this and that so that all this letter-changing nonsense can happen smoother? like if its all consensual subjective reality, then all you really have to do is call an object something like "carf" or whatever as a synonym for something else, because multiple words exist for one thing, so you can turn a scarf into a carf into a car because you got enough people to agree to something being a "carf". I guess the governments in Counterfeit Monkey are more concerned with keeping it all tied down than experimenting, given that you discover at least two ways to accidentally kill yourself by turning things too large into something else with the letter remover.

yeah, a mirror reversing based on words is.....potentially useful given the nature of most words, might be very limited. for one, I'd imagine its useless for a palindrome: Mom reverses to Mom.   

.......did you just create a mechanic out of thin air?........0_0.....is....is that mechanic aware of their existence?

.........okay the Yam reversal into May was a bit of stretch, you have to admit. 

but yeah, this world is bizarre and a bit surreal. and this is when its English, given how some languages work? there could be entirely different concerns, tech and rules elsewhere, like how some languages conjugate a lot of things into one word, or how some words only have difference in terms of tone. like everything about this would be just a headache in any language, because what happens if you start mixing the languages and manipulating an object in one way in one language then manipulating it in another? gah.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I don't really have thoughts for this time... I'm not normally into text adventures and the like.
> 
> But some thoughts I had last time that I didn't share becuase I figured I'd edited the post enough and then nobody posted anything else.
> 
> "Sioux" is pronounced "See-Oh" and while I normally _hate_ the "Magical Native American" trope with a passion, "the soul can have no rainbow if the eyes have no tears" is a good line.
> 
> Beyond that I was surprised as how good the story of that game was. You don't normally see Arcade Shooters with such a compelling plot.


Understandable.

Right, right. And yeah, though the thing with Gray Wolf at least is that you can tell, due to how Silas is as a character, his leaning on that trope is him feeding them what they expected, and probably what he felt at the time. It's clear at the end of the game he was genuinely very affected by what Gray Wolf said, that Gray Wolf probably did a bit more to try and help him than Silas lets on, and that Silas himself is actually quite knowledgable about how these people actually worked (he only slips into stereotypes and tropes when trying to get at the people listening). It's neat.




> Hello! I was the scribble of names in the other corner!


A very good and cool scribble! Everyone heap praise on my girlfriend for being rad as hell.




> *Counterfeiting A Mankey:*
> This game's premise makes me think of some of the weirder more esoteric ttrpgs I've come across with strange abstract powers. could make something based on manipulating words.
> 
> ....I wonder what would've happened if you answered "No" at the beginning. just be sarcastic right out of the gate, see how the game reacts.
> 
> Yeah, we don't want to Z-remove Zodi. Then she will just be an Odi, and get tricked by Garfield.
> 
> remove p's from apple, get ale.
> 
> ...


The sheer esoteric and inventive nature of the game (and the writing being quite sharp) is why I'm into this game. Like Rater above I'm not usually into stuff like this, but this one made a great impression.

Honestly I bet if you say no at the start you get a bit more explanation for What Is Going On, potentially?

It's honestly quite difficult to redefine words, harder than you think. Singular they was a word invented before singular you, but because of some daft idiot they was briefly shifted to "only plural" and now it's almost impossible to get anyone to think otherwise. You can really only get that sort of thing in while the language is young, otherwise it becomes too set in stone because a large number of old people refuse to admit they're wrong.

The mirror is equal parts mind blowingly expansive a tool and also exceptionally limited and I honestly love it. It could be used to do SO much stuff, but also oh god what stuff though? It's tough and I love it.

So, about the "other languages" bit. It's only softly implied throughout (mostly at the New Church) but the idea is that, due to the nature of this technology... every language other than English has been exterminated for this exact reason. If other languages existed it'd make the world just that much more complicated.

----------


## Rater202

> So, about the "other languages" bit. It's only softly implied throughout (mostly at the New Church) but the idea is that, due to the nature of this technology... every language other than English has been exterminated for this exact reason. If other languages existed it'd make the world just that much more complicated.


How? Like, you touched on this but controlling languages is hard. Pretty much the only way to kill off a language would be to kill everyone who speaks it.

Or at least prevent them from being able to pass it onto others.

Unless of course this game is secretly a bad future in the Metal Gear Timeline where the language parasites were proliferated.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> How? Like, you touched on this but controlling languages is hard. Pretty much the only way to kill off a language would be to kill everyone who speaks it.
> 
> Or at least prevent them from being able to pass it onto others.
> 
> Unless of course this game is secretly a bad future in the Metal Gear Timeline where the language parasites were proliferated.


Yeah, wiping out all other languages would basically be a cultural apocalypse. 

as for it being a bad future.....eeeeeeh, this seems like the split came before the Metal Gears could ever be a thing. this linguistic tech seems to be first made in the 1800's, more alt history than anything else. maybe they invented some big language wiping out device- if you can remove a letter from a word, why not a device to remove another language from the world? apparently all it would take is a lot more energy than a dinky laser pointer. and modern society has a lot of energy.

----------


## Qwertystop

The language-extermination thing seems to be a thing about Atlantis specifically, not the world in general. Which is a much easier job, though you'll note they still haven't completely managed it.

----------


## LaZodiac

Once more, we step into the shoes of a body spliced pair of individuals trying to escape Atlantis! It's Counterfeit Monkey time!

*Zodi Streams: Counterfeit Monkey [2] Problems with Adjectives*

*Video Length: 3:44:57*

In this one, while we don't make much headway towards our goals, we DO however gain a LOT of power. Next time though? Next time... will be chaotic.

----------


## Rater202

Still no thoughts about... Sorry, I just can't get into this one.

But a thought that occurred to me regarding the Zelda playthrough... Guacamole Doritos exist and are about the right shade of green. Would probably go better with Spicy Nacho Cheese and Cool Ranch than spearmint

Actually, those would probably be good as a stack.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Still no thoughts about... Sorry, I just can't get into this one.
> 
> But a thought that occurred to me regarding the Zelda playthrough... Guacamole Doritos exist and are about the right shade of green. Would probably go better with Spicy Nacho Cheese and Cool Ranch than spearmint
> 
> Actually, those would probably be good as a stack.


That's totally fair. It's likely we'll finish it next stream, and then we'll move onto something more traditional.

That sounds horrifying but enticing. I should try it out one day maybe...

Also; I realize that there hasn't been Majora's Mask in... forever. I would like to apologize one last time with regards to that. I've been going through a lot lately, and been trying to recover in my own way. Next week, Majora's Mask WILL return. Thank you for your patience in this matter.

----------


## Rater202

> That's totally fair. It's likely we'll finish it next stream, and then we'll move onto something more traditional.
> 
> That sounds horrifying but enticing. I should try it out one day maybe...
> 
> Also; I realize that there hasn't been Majora's Mask in... forever. I would like to apologize one last time with regards to that. I've been going through a lot lately, and been trying to recover in my own way. Next week, Majora's Mask WILL return. Thank you for your patience in this matter.


Zodi, you do not owe us anything.

Little thing I did recently: I unpdated my very first major fanfic for the first time in over two years.

I didn't get complaints about how long it took. I just got people happy that the story was updated.

...Little concerned by the number of people who apparently thought I was dead when I was actively updating my other stories in that time, but nobody complained about the wait.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Zodi, you do not owe us anything.
> 
> Little thing I did recently: I unpdated my very first major fanfic for the first time in over two years.
> 
> I didn't get complaints about how long it took. I just got people happy that the story was updated.
> 
> ...Little concerned by the number of people who apparently thought I was dead when I was actively updating my other stories in that time, but nobody complained about the wait.


That reminds me I should probably update mine, but apparently I'm such a bad writer when it comes slow and creepy chapter that I have no ideas how to do it and rather do anything else for literal years.

----------


## DataNinja

> Also; I realize that there hasn't been Majora's Mask in... forever. I would like to apologize one last time with regards to that. I've been going through a lot lately, and been trying to recover in my own way. Next week, Majora's Mask WILL return. Thank you for your patience in this matter.


It's all fine. You take care of yourself, ma'am!  :Small Tongue: 
I can only imagine that a cyclical game like this, rather than a concretely progressive one, is much harder to do and more draining.

----------


## LaZodiac

Once more, Counterfeit Monkey.

*Zodi Streams: Counterfeit Monkey [3] Wild and Pure and Forever Free*
*
Video Length: 5:30:58*

This little stream probably has the most concentrated wild mood swings one can really experience while playing a text adventure/pointy-clicky adventure game. The laughter at the comedy, the frustration of "... okay now what?" puzzles, the genuine bafflement when you stumble directly into an answer out of nowhere as a joke. The furious grumbling of "oops the game just broke" that takes you out of the zone... and the unbelievably beautiful turns of phrase that slam you directly back into it, with all the force of... well, multiple dropkick cancans.

Also we beat the game! That's cool! We were kinda of exhausted at the end so not as much wrapping up at the end, but it's how you do.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Counterfeit Monkey 3:*
Ah, so Kung-Fu Panda was never made in this world, got it.

Poe: oh come now, if YOU were suddenly cloned/reanimated into the world, wouldn't YOU follow the person who did it to find out why?

oh so THATS what happens with depluralized people. they don't stop existing, they just get......smushed....into......one.......huh, so thats what happened.

I imagine the lee is just a little mote of shadow.

Miriam: "the general concept of cat is dumber than most cats" 
Zodi: "I blame Garfield"
Me: "I blame lolcats"

anagramming gun and etymology reversal chamber are interesting. I think the next step of technology like this would be to combine all these little uses into one machine that does everything so you can program the device to go through a bunch of word changes to get what you want, because its current a process sometimes but if you can program/automate the processes and turn something into something else at computer speeds, that could really make this more efficient.

a lab device to sound risky so as to make idiots and strangers go away? best lab equipment, it should be standard!

Heh, when the oppressive government has to make everything cute so as to best defend itself....

yeah, I'm glad I'm not playing this game myself, I'm snarky, I'd probably do a lot things that wouldn't work and derail stuff like this.

yeah okay, the anagram gun is the most dangerous of these. 

*Spoiler*
Show

so the Atlantida government tried to make the Atlantida lady an image or symbol everyone would accept.....and when they did, it immediately ended up being used to champion individual liberties. wah-wah-wowowowowowowow.......

huh so thats how Atlantida is defeated and changed. I would've thought to somehow add something to atlantida but no, its just simple as turn her back again in the modern day.



yeah its a fun strange little game indeed. I'm not much for text adventures, so I'd probably would never have known about this unless you streamed it Zodi.

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Counterfeit Monkey 3:*
> Ah, so Kung-Fu Panda was never made in this world, got it.
> 
> Poe: oh come now, if YOU were suddenly cloned/reanimated into the world, wouldn't YOU follow the person who did it to find out why?
> 
> oh so THATS what happens with depluralized people. they don't stop existing, they just get......smushed....into......one.......huh, so thats what happened.
> 
> I imagine the lee is just a little mote of shadow.
> 
> ...


The current year in game is 2003. That film came out 2008.

Yeah the stuff done with Subject A is all very cool. Even if the solution has a very... Gordian Knot feeling to it, it is so firmly established how reification works through the entire game that it makes total perfect sense.

I'm not one for text adventures and pointy-clicky games myself, but this one was very fun, and playing through it with my girlfriend made it ten times better. She's the best, everyone praise her.

----------


## LaZodiac

What if we finally got back to this, why don't we?
*
Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [4] Evanescence Presents; Sonata of Awakening*

*Video Length: 19:57*

The reality of editing means our return to Majora's Mask is a little short, but also the next two episodes are going to be Dungeon Time so it's to be expected. We get our first new song, the Sonata of Awakening, and open up the temple in question. That may not seem like a lot, but given the nature of this game it is actually quite significant. Hope you all enjoyed, we'll see you all next time.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (4)*
Show




> What if we finally got back to this, why don't we?
> *
> Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [4] Evanescence Presents; Sonata of Awakening*
> 
> *Video Length: 19:57*
> 
> The reality of editing means our return to Majora's Mask is a little short, but also the next two episodes are going to be Dungeon Time so it's to be expected. We get our first new song, the Sonata of Awakening, and open up the temple in question. That may not seem like a lot, but given the nature of this game it is actually quite significant. Hope you all enjoyed, we'll see you all next time.




WELCOME BACK!  

It's the bean seller hole, yeah.  Plant is totes there.  You can drop deku nuts on the deku, you just need to be above them while they're out of their flowers.  Ah ha!  You figure this out later!  Noting here for future wombat - 3 blue and 6 green along the deku path, for when zodi gets the heart piece at a later date.

Pretty good sniping with the deku bubble on that dragonfly!  +1 style point!

The new song of double time is great for selecting a specific time, rather than warping to the night or day.  Also, I think I'll start tracking how many times you go back in time throughout this playthrough, because I'm curious.  We already had one, which I'll just add to the one we get today, time keeping wise.

Temple time!  Weeeeeee.



*EPISODE 4 KILL TALLY!*

Mad Deku Scrub - 7
Dragonfly - 2
Hiploop - 2

Style Points - 1
Time Reset Count - 2

Missed Rupees - 21
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 4_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 7
Dragonfly - 2
Eeno - 1
Leever - 1
Octo, Big - 1
Skulltula, Big - 2
Snapper - 1
Wolfos - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 5_
Baba, Deku - 3

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 2
Hiploop - 2

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 39

*1st Place* - Bad Bat and Mad Deku Scrub, tied at 7!
*2nd Place* - Mini Baba, at 5!
*3rd Place* - Red Chuchu, at 4!

*Total Style Points* - 3

*Total Missed Rupees* - 38
*Total Lost Rupees* - 11

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

Welcome back!

So, you said you didn't know if it was the beanstalk or the vendor that was moved, it was the vendor. In the original version, if I can recall correctly, you had to get the bean *before* heading into the deku stronghold. IIRC it was from the deku vendor on top of the roof of the boat tour building or something. 

Also, there wasn't an owl statue at the entrance to the swamp. Originally, it was up the waterfall just outside of the deku stronghold. So you had to go through the swamp to get to the owl statue. However, it did at least make it convenient to re-visit the deku place later on. 

There's another picture you can give the old dude for an interesting reward, although it does come off as kind of blackmail...

Also, in the actual original, all of the ocarina buttons were the same color... you used the yellow d-pad for four of the five notes. For the GC version, however, they had to adapt it which had a more colorful outlay. 

Kind of a short episode today, but given the demarcation, I felt it appropriate. You want a full episode, probably two, for the actual dungeon itself, and this is a great cut point.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

> Welcome back!
> 
> So, you said you didn't know if it was the beanstalk or the vendor that was moved, it was the vendor. In the original version, if I can recall correctly, you had to get the bean *before* heading into the deku stronghold. IIRC it was from the deku vendor on top of the roof of the boat tour building or something. 
> 
> Also, there wasn't an owl statue at the entrance to the swamp. Originally, it was up the waterfall just outside of the deku stronghold. So you had to go through the swamp to get to the owl statue. However, it did at least make it convenient to re-visit the deku place later on. 
> 
> There's another picture you can give the old dude for an interesting reward, although it does come off as kind of blackmail...
> 
> Also, in the actual original, all of the ocarina buttons were the same color... you used the yellow d-pad for four of the five notes. For the GC version, however, they had to adapt it which had a more colorful outlay. 
> ...


There IS a bean seller in the original, you just had to sneak through the right side of the gardens to get to him, there wasn't that easy access hole right by the plant.  He could be skipped by buying from the scrub though, for sure.

----------


## Rater202

Ahh, using time travel to cheat at the lottery. A time honord tradition.

...You'd think that tattle would have something to say about you trapping a fairy in a bottle?

----------


## DataNinja

Nothing much to say, besides "oh, right, I forgot where we were." XD

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 2, Day 3: Time Travel For Fun And Profit*
Ah Link, not worrying/thinking through the consequences of his actions as usual. But thats what you get when your the Triforce of Courage: you play the pipes even when it gets you thrown out by dekus.

Its "Woodfall" Zodi.

yeah time travel is always shenanigans when you get economics involved. 

Hey have you tried singing the buttons? _A, X, A, X, L, YYYY, LLLLL......._

@ Rater: I mean, Navi didn't have anything to say about it either. I guess Navi and Tatl are just fine with their brethren being captured to dwell in a jar for a period of time before being released to restore some of Link's health. Or maybe Navi and Tatl just hate pink fairies?

----------


## LaZodiac

I always just kinda figured it's a fairy thing. Sucks to suck loser, you got trapped by a person, gotta save their life. Fairy law.

----------


## LaZodiac

Go go Power Rangeeeers.

*Zodi Streams: Power Rangers Genesis/SNES Marathon*

*Video Length: 5:08:37*

As part of my redoing of all the games I've LPed, it is time to return to Power Rangers the Movie for the Genesis... but since that is a short game, it's time instead to play all of the Genesis and SNES Power Ranger games! And also some Battle for the Grid! Hope you all enjoy!

----------


## Rater202

BAsed on your answer to the "if you were a power rangers villain?" qustion... I'm guessing your liked the second Galaxy Pink ranger?

That's a weird story. They killed off the original Galaxy Pink and brought back Korone to take her place becuase the orignal actress was diagnosed with a potential fatal cancer and couldn't do the show *and* get the treatment she needed, so...

And then they used it to expand on something from the last seasons: Karone feels remorse over what she did as Astronema, even though she was literally kidnapped and brainwashed into it and later just flat out mind controlled when she gets reminded of her brother and the brainwashing starts to wear off. Her arc of alternating between using Astronema's reputation as a tool and trying to atone for what she did leads directly into some major plot points and the Red Galaxy Ranger's power up.

...In Super Megaforce, which used footage from Gokaiger, the 45th-anniversary sentai where the main team could use the powers of previous teams, they have their own version of the "Legend war" at the end and bring back a bunch of previous actors for new footage. It was cut from the main airing but in the extended version Karone is present and has her powers restored with the "Legend Shift" power she's shown being able to shift between her Galaxy Pink form and her Astronema Form at will. They probably just did that becuase it was cool, but that has some interesting implications.

If _I_ was a Power Rangers villain, I'd like to be the Badass Lieutenant with a vague code of honor who looks vaguely like a knight who always gives the rangers a sporting chance, then it turns out that I'm a fallen hero corrupted by forces outside my control and my sense of fair play is my original self trying to reassert things: Eventually the Big bad brings in an eviler version of me from elsewhere just in time for the Rangers to defeat me in a way that destroys my evil self without killing me, revealing that I have a human form, and then I have an episode or two of a journey of self-discovery and healing before returning with "good" versions of my villain powers which may or may not necessitate a redesign and I take the role of the "Extra Warrior" of the seasons.

(the Extra WArrior is someone like Magna Defender. They're not a Ranger but they have similar powers to one and act semi-independently from them.)

It's very interesting how they do n extended set-up of the rangers getting new powers in the movies, which also gives them ninja powers, they have to ern it but then when season 3 roles around and they do the exact same thing the tv show versiion the guy they go to just sort of gives it to them once they convince him too.

Ninjor helps them fight sometimes, but in-universe his whole schtick is that he can make Power Coins and zords. That's what he does. And then he just fricking disappears with no fanfare in the Alien Rangers miniseries even though realistically the Rangers should have just, kept going to him whenever they needed new powers or new zords.

*That's literally all he does.*

Bit of trivia: The Yellow Ranger doesn't have a skirt but the Pink ranger does becuase 1: The yellow ranger was a man in Kyouru Senai Zyuranger, the sentai whose stock footage was used for MMPR and 2: The stunt actor in the pink suit in the orignal footage was a slenderly built man... Who was um... Packing. they added a skirt to the pink stunt suit to avoid awkwardness.

The Black Ranger is also the RWBY Ranger.The thing Enderlord jokes about was really never a thing.

In Season 1: They'd power up by shouting the name of their dinosaur, except for the green ranger who shouted "Dragonzord." In season 2 it was "White Tigerzord."

In season 3... It was "*color* _Ranger_ Power." The awkward phrasing wouldn't come up.The We Need a Hero Caffe is presumably a reference to the soundtrack.

One of the songs on the soundtrack is called "We Need a Hero." "And we keep dreaming of a world, where all is good and so we're told... We need a hero."

Personally, I eagerly await the appearance of the Kung Fu Dancing Pizaria. Or the Free Ride chinese take out place. You'd think those would be the other way around, but no.Actually, while Zack and Trini never returned(and Trini's actress died in a car accident) Jason did return teo seasons later to temporarily become the Gold Ranger when the Original Gold Ranger's powers became unstable.

He was later the red Mighty Morphin Ranger in the Forever Red Special, while Rocky was not present.

Jason was able to do this becuase he was never depowered: They made a huge deal about getting the "Sword of Light" to copy the powers of the three remaining rangers and give the copies to their replacements becuase they were worried about Lord Zedd's forces attacking them while they were just normal people, away from the rest of the rangers. So while he doesn't have a Zord the three of them canonically have just permanently been Rangers uninterrupted with their original powers for nearly 30 years.I remember in the movie when they're fighting Ivan they start losing so they push a button in the cockpit that says "for emergencies only" and it makes the Megazord kick Ivan in the groin.

...I did not actually expect the game to retain that part.I'm not sure that the second game is a power rangers game.

I think it's a super sentai game that was hastily reskinned: Replace the transformation scenes and the text

In particular, it seems like in the Rita scenes they just translated her counterpart's lines literally and then reused the same two bits in every scene regardless of context. She doesn't talk the way that Rita does.

Also Cyclopsis wasn't a monster but a Zord piloted by Goldar an d was much the same in the Sentai this was based on, but here is depicted as just another monster made by finster here.

----------


## LaZodiac

> BAsed on your answer to the "if you were a power rangers villain?" qustion... I'm guessing your liked the second Galaxy Pink ranger?
> 
> That's a weird story. They killed off the original Galaxy Pink and brought back Korone to take her place becuase the orignal actress was diagnosed with a potential fatal cancer and couldn't do the show *and* get the treatment she needed, so...
> 
> And then they used it to expand on something from the last seasons: Karone feels remorse over what she did as Astronema, even though she was literally kidnapped and brainwashed into it and later just flat out mind controlled when she gets reminded of her brother and the brainwashing starts to wear off. Her arc of alternating between using Astronema's reputation as a tool and trying to atone for what she did leads directly into some major plot points and the Red Galaxy Ranger's power up.
> 
> It's very interesting how they do n extended set-up of the rangers getting new powers in the movies, which also gives them ninja powers, they have to ern it but then when season 3 roles around and they do the exact same thing the tv show versiion the guy they go to just sort of gives it to them once they convince him too.
> 
> Ninjor helps them fight sometimes, but in-universe his whole schtick is that he can make Power Coins and zords. That's what he does. And then he just fricking disappears with no fanfare in the Alien Rangers miniseries even though realistically the Rangers should have just, kept going to him whenever they needed new powers or new zords.
> ...


She's pretty cool, yeah. I'll admit I don't actually know much because I've never really watched as much Sentai as I would have liked to.

The way the show gives them the ninja powers vs how the movie does it is ridiculous... and also, while the Thunder Megazord is rad as hell and based on a cool theme, I prefer the Ninja Megazord.

What do you mean by RWBY Ranger?

Yeah it's... so goofy.

And yeah, that second game is VERY rough, though somehow not the worst game we played. Also not the last game to portray Cyclopsis as just a monster, and to show Rita's Palace as a cool moon casino looking thing.

----------


## Rater202

> What do you mean by RWBY Ranger?


His ax.

Specifically, the fact that it's also a gun.
...As an aside, I kind of hate volume 1 Ruby's voice compared to later volumes.

Like, even the way that it shifts from ax mode to gun modeand the fact that the blade becomes the handle and triggerfits in with the nonsense trick-weapons in RWBY.

It's like at somepoint when fleshing out the RWBY concept the team took a break and binge-watched old power rangers episodes, saw the Blac Ranger's axe, and decided "yes, that. But even more ridiculous. Everything must also be guns."Bit of Trivia regarding the Blue Turbo Ranger: His actor(who was allowed to keep the helmet and child-sized costume he wore in non-sock footage and _still has it_) grew up to become an MMA fighter.

He's retired now, but... Man's fricking *jacked.*

When he was starting to make a name for himself, and people figured out who he was, he would get a _lot_ of challengers who wanted to throw down with a Power Ranger.I can't help but notice that Billy, Jason, and Zack all have unique sprits and animations in that third game, but Trini and Kimberly are almost pallet swaps with identical animations.

EDIT: Finished your absurdly long power rangers stream.

1: I am 100% convinced that Mighty Morphin Power Rangers The Movie featuring Ivan Ooze was cobbled together from mostly recycled assets as a quick tie-in to said movie. Ivan Ooze is transparently a crude recreation of Ivan's head pasted on a generic dark wizard.

2: Either I had a stroke or the people who made Battle for the Grid are smoking the good ****. All I understood of that was "one of the bad guys in the evil Edgelord version of Tommy from an alternate universe that was in one of the comic book adaptions" and that morphing doesn't actually do anything for Ryuu but give him new clothes.

3: Yes! Psychonauts 2. You're not gonna regret this, it has everything good from the first game with better gameplay and all of the problematic elements ironed out. They said it was a game about empathy and healing, and that's _exactly_ what it comes across as.

----------


## LaZodiac

> His ax.
> 
> Specifically, the fact that it's also a gun.
> ...As an aside, I kind of hate volume 1 Ruby's voice compared to later volumes.
> 
> Like, even the way that it shifts from ax mode to gun modeand the fact that the blade becomes the handle and triggerfits in with the nonsense trick-weapons in RWBY.
> 
> 1: I am 100% convinced that Mighty Morphin Power Rangers The Movie featuring Ivan Ooze was cobbled together from mostly recycled assets as a quick tie-in to said movie. Ivan Ooze is transparently a crude recreation of Ivan's head pasted on a generic dark wizard.
> 
> ...


At least in the Mastodon Ranger's case the axe is like, slightly magical and not transforming.

Yeah I'm like 100% convinced the last one of those games is just a sprite replacement thing. It's ridiculous.

Battle for the Grid is in fact rad as hell, for those exact reasons.

Excited to see how it goes!

----------


## LaZodiac

Majora's Mask time! Lets dive into the first dungeon!

*Zodi Plays: Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [5] Woodfall Down*

*Video Length: 19:31*

In this episode, we start Woodfall Temple, and get our first real impression of what people mean when they call Majora's Mask an "Expert Zelda". The time limit (even if you can extend it) and collecting all the fairy pieces, plus the fact that there are optional rooms means that, at least within the scope of me playing Zelda games for the internet, these are probably going to be the most complex dungeons. Adding to that is that there will be times where the game asks us to do things that I genuinely don't know how you'd learn beyond just... experimenting and figuring it out, but once learned are now inbuilt and unforgettable. It's fascinating!

As a slight update; I'm going back to working in the office basically full time. This means my schedule will be kinda slammed. I will try to keep up the uploads, but sorry if it slips again! Hope you all enjoyed, we'll see you all next time for the rest of Woodfall Temple.

----------


## Rater202

I find the music in the temple to be a touch on the unsettling side myself.

Are you sure something bad happens on the petals, or is that just your instinct becuase flimsy platforms are often... flimsy in games like this.

"Tonight we dine on turtle soup!"

I like that Deku Link jumps into the chest to get things, especially since I was just thinking that he was big enough to fit in it.

The perspective on those jumps is dizzying. Getting vertigo just watching it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 3, Day 1: Spooky Carved Wood Temple*
this temple has a creepy ancient vibe to it that fits with this game. a lot of the decorations make think a lot of this is carved wood.  

"why is the camera like this?"
answer: your actually viewing things from Tatl's perspective. 

.....Link doing the item thing while wearing the bomb mask is funny, makes it look like the skull is sad to receive this.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

Kind of a short episode today. You could probably have finished off the rest of the dungeon inside the half hour mark. 

One of the lesser known abilities of the Great Fairy Mask is to draw faeries to you. While this is almost never directly relevant, the only fairy just aimlessly chilling around is the very first one you collect, it can be useful when you free a faerie from a distance, such as shooting a bubble or an arrow at whatever is trapping it, then putting on the mask to guide the now freed faerie to you. 

Also, I'm reminded of how much I played this game when I got it in the GC 26th Anniversary Zelda Collection because I still have this dungeon memorized. Including the location of a faerie you've passed at least a half dozen times so far. A couple of them, actually. However, I won't be spoilering them because a) that would be rude, b) that would be pointless as you've already recorded the entire dungeon run ahead of time so it's not like you'll be able to react to it, and c) the ability you get from collecting them all isn't exactly mandatory. 

If that Majora's Mask indentation on the floor is what I think it is, then it used to be the mark of the boss of the dungeon, and is actually both relevant and actually quite useful in getting the 'best' ending. 

Normal arrows, when shot through a lit torch sconce, become burning arrows. There is a place in this dungeon where this is relevant. It becomes more relevant in later dungeons. 

I'd never killed the Lizalfos in that manner before. That's... actually pretty darn clever. 

Also, there's exactly two minibosses per dungeon. One guarding the treasure of the dungeon (the bow in this instance), and one guarding the Big Key. I'll talk more about the latter in the next episode when we meet it. 

Yea, those butterflies that hang around torches? They hurt if they catch you. And they chase lit deku sticks. You already had a time limit doing fire-related stick puzzles due to the sticks burning out. They didn't have to add injury to insult, but for some reason, they decided this was a good idea.

You know, those flying insects guarding the compass? I saw the flowers in the ground and thought I had to beat them by jumping out of the flower like I did the turtles. I never knew they went down to deku bubble shot so easily. Learn something new every day.

----------


## DataNinja

Well, these dungeons are _definitely_ atmospheric so far. The whole game really does a good job with that.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I find the music in the temple to be a touch on the unsettling side myself.
> 
> Are you sure something bad happens on the petals, or is that just your instinct becuase flimsy platforms are often... flimsy in games like this.
> 
> "Tonight we dine on turtle soup!"
> 
> I like that Deku Link jumps into the chest to get things, especially since I was just thinking that he was big enough to fit in it.
> 
> The perspective on those jumps is dizzying. Getting vertigo just watching it.


Yeah, it's pretty unsettling! That's part of why I like it XP

It is super cute!




> *Loop 3, Day 1: Spooky Carved Wood Temple*
> this temple has a creepy ancient vibe to it that fits with this game. a lot of the decorations make think a lot of this is carved wood.  
> 
> "why is the camera like this?"
> answer: your actually viewing things from Tatl's perspective. 
> 
> .....Link doing the item thing while wearing the bomb mask is funny, makes it look like the skull is sad to receive this.


Every canned animation, But You're Wearing A Mask, is excellent honestly.




> Kind of a short episode today. You could probably have finished off the rest of the dungeon inside the half hour mark. 
> 
> One of the lesser known abilities of the Great Fairy Mask is to draw faeries to you. While this is almost never directly relevant, the only fairy just aimlessly chilling around is the very first one you collect, it can be useful when you free a faerie from a distance, such as shooting a bubble or an arrow at whatever is trapping it, then putting on the mask to guide the now freed faerie to you. 
> 
> Also, I'm reminded of how much I played this game when I got it in the GC 26th Anniversary Zelda Collection because I still have this dungeon memorized. Including the location of a faerie you've passed at least a half dozen times so far. A couple of them, actually. However, I won't be spoilering them because a) that would be rude, b) that would be pointless as you've already recorded the entire dungeon run ahead of time so it's not like you'll be able to react to it, and c) the ability you get from collecting them all isn't exactly mandatory. 
> 
> If that Majora's Mask indentation on the floor is what I think it is, then it used to be the mark of the boss of the dungeon, and is actually both relevant and actually quite useful in getting the 'best' ending. 
> 
> Normal arrows, when shot through a lit torch sconce, become burning arrows. There is a place in this dungeon where this is relevant. It becomes more relevant in later dungeons. 
> ...


Possibly! I could have maybe had this be a 40 minute video, but I'm still getting back into the swing of things with recording Majora's Mask.

I think I did show off the Great Fairy Mask's drawing power... if not in this one, then the next. Likewise with the arrow shooting through flame.

I've... never really realize there are two minibosses, one for the item and one for the boss key. I've always known but, but never really made the connection?

The deadly fire moths are so weird a decision.




> Well, these dungeons are _definitely_ atmospheric so far. The whole game really does a good job with that.


Yup! That's something Majora's Mask is fantastic at.

----------


## LaZodiac

Mamamajora! Majora's Mask!
*
Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [6] Odolwa*

*Video Length: 24:03*

The back half of Woodfall Temple, wherein we actually see some of those "Zelda expert mode" puzzles I mentioned last time, face off against a rude frog, and then face one of the stranger bosses in the series; Odolwa! The original game's version of this fight honestly feels like a mess, where it is never really clear what you're supposed to do. This version makes it far clearer, as well as adds in some extras to make it work even better... at the potential consequence of making it TOO telegraphed? I know some people dislike it, but as the first boss of the game it should be a little reasonable.

Also, and this is just me, but one of the cool things about Majora's Mask IS the fact that each boss has different ways to fight it. Each boss has a way for regular ole Hylian Link to take it down, and a way for his transformed state to take it down... and in the original, it was very unclear to just not being possible how you were supposed to do it with Deku Link! So making that clearer is GOOD, in my opinion, even if they may have made it took clear? 

Regardless, Odolwa is destroyed, and we have obtained ourselves a sassy little princess as a result... and the masked remains of Odolwa, saving the Giant spirit beneath the mask! We'll learn more about these big ole honky boys later, but for now we take our new song and move on with our lives. Hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 3, Day 1-B: Kejukekardes! CLINK-KA!*
Yeah, when I tried to play Majora's Mask for myself, I had to figure out you can shoot through torches on my own. 

I definitely remember Odolwa being more puppet-like and janky than this. like sometimes he'd go something "dolalalalalala! dolalalalalala!" and go faster, this not what I remember of him. and I remember the sounds he makes entirely differently for some reason.

yes, you have now learn the checkmark/V-shaped song, Oath to Order. 

Zodi: please don't be weird at me
Green Fairy: No promises.

----------


## Rater202

I can't help but feel like there was an intro that got cut off?

Odolwa appears to be infected with the G-Virus.

Nothing wrong with joking.

...you smell like monkey, but you haven't met the monkey in this loop. This game is confusing.

...There is no way in hell she should be able to fit in that bottle.

You've revived the Guacamole Dorito Fairy and she's given you an end-game power up right after the first boss... I get the feeling that you're gonna need it.

And seriously. That's a Poison Ivey situation. The fairies are clearly naked and it just looks like they have clothes becuase of the planty bits growing on their skin.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I can't help but feel like there was an intro that got cut off?
> 
> Odolwa appears to be infected with the G-Virus.
> 
> Nothing wrong with joking.
> 
> ...you smell like monkey, but you haven't met the monkey in this loop. This game is confusing.
> 
> ...There is no way in hell she should be able to fit in that bottle.
> ...


It's where the last video ended.

A little bit, yeah!

To be fair Hylians are hyliad sapiens and thus apes, like humans are.

Look it is a tight squeeze but she's got it!

Yeah the Ocarina/Majora great fairies are... very risque.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

> Mamamajora! Majora's Mask!
> *
> Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [6] Odolwa*
> 
> *Video Length: 24:03*
> 
> The back half of Woodfall Temple, wherein we actually see some of those "Zelda expert mode" puzzles I mentioned last time, face off against a rude frog, and then face one of the stranger bosses in the series; Odolwa! The original game's version of this fight honestly feels like a mess, where it is never really clear what you're supposed to do. This version makes it far clearer, as well as adds in some extras to make it work even better... at the potential consequence of making it TOO telegraphed? I know some people dislike it, but as the first boss of the game it should be a little reasonable.
> 
> Also, and this is just me, but one of the cool things about Majora's Mask IS the fact that each boss has different ways to fight it. Each boss has a way for regular ole Hylian Link to take it down, and a way for his transformed state to take it down... and in the original, it was very unclear to just not being possible how you were supposed to do it with Deku Link! So making that clearer is GOOD, in my opinion, even if they may have made it took clear? 
> ...


So, this key-guarding miniboss. Every key-guarding miniboss is frog-based and turns into a 'normal' frog after being defeated. However...

*Spoiler: No really, this is an actual spoiler for a quest chain later!*
Show

Finding a specific mask will let you talk to the frogs. Here's the kicker: You have to talk to all five frogs, four of which are these key minibosses. Which are generally toward the END of each of the four dungeons. So to complete this quest, you have to run all four dungeons in the same three-day period at least far enough to talk to said frog while equipped with said mask before going to the next. This is... annoying, more than anything, as by the time you get into the fourth dungeon, the first few are pretty trivial, it's just a matter of slogging through the dungeons to get there. 

Basically, I just ended up devoting an entire three-day cycle to this one quest.


Figuring out Odolwa on the old console was mostly a work of trial and error. I went into the fight with the knowledge that the item of the dungeon is generally used to defeat the boss of said dungeon, and so kept trying to figure out how to use the bow effectively on him. I also was trying to pop up out of the flowers on the ground to knock him over, like you do with the turtles. I hadn't considered bombing him with deku nuts. But mostly, I just bum-rushed him and attacked his heel with my sword until he fell over, then hit him more on the back of the head. The signposting in this version is *MUCH* better, and would have led to less frustration on my part with the fight, but also does kinda make the boss trivial? I dunno. Wouldn't be complaining about it, though. Like you said, first boss is always supposed to be a pushover (unless you're playing a Soulsborne game). 

Figuring out I needed to bottle the princess was... a thing. I think I ended up soft-locking at that point because I had no idea what she was talking about, and I thought I had to pick her up over my head like I did Ruto in the previous title in the dungeon. The first time I defeated the dungeon, I was unable to complete the questline because time ran out and I had to reset time since I spent so much time trying to figure out how the heck I was supposed to get her to her father. 

Yea, I was expecting the faerie under the push-block in that other room as well. I wonder where she got moved to. Or did she just get removed entirely? Been too long, need to fire up the game again at some point. 

Either way, congratulations on your victory! 

As far as the rupees, I'm pretty sure you know how to make that problem less... problematic, and I expect you'll take care of it before you reset time.

----------


## DataNinja

Huh. I like how even the minibosses are involved with making use of multiple forms and multiple tools. That's neat.

----------


## LaZodiac

Hey hey, it is time for a Psychonauts two!
*
Zodi Streams: Psychonauts 2 [1] Silly Dice Maze*

*Video Length: 4:41:05*

Starting us off fairly strong, Psychonauts 2 really does feel like it is the game Psychonauts 1 wanted to be. Everything feels... correctly put together, for lack of a better term, and the jokes are actually funny! The mechanics feel properly functional and the boss fights aren't miserable slogs! It says a lot about how bad Psychonauts 1 was that this is the opening praise I'm giving it, but hey. They had a lot to make up for.

----------


## Rater202

To be fair, the first game didn't have fall damage so it's kind of weird that this one does.

Regarding the mental health advisory: They mean it when they say that this is a game about Empathy and healing. I genuinely beleive that the approach to treating mental illness taken in these games is how it should go... Minus the little boy astral projecting into your mind part.

You might note that the Whispering Rock postcard was written in the same font as the Gravity Falls logo. It's probably a coincidence, but we never did learn where Whispering Rock was other than "probably somewhere in America."

I have the mental image of True Psychic Tales deciding to humor "the Aquato kid" for his persistence, reaching out to the Psychonauts to fact check his story, and then being floored when Sasha or someone is like "no, uh... That's all true. If anything we're a bit surprised by how much he left out."

Even in a mental construct, Oleander has to wear his metals... That are probably fake, considering that he never served.

Note: The Talking Turtle appears to be a puppet version of Mr. Pokeylope.

Something you'll notice in this game: Almost all of the "people" mental constructs look like muppets.

It's very interesting just how much control Loboto has of his own mindscape. He probably could have been the greatest psychic of his generation if his parents weren't bigoted abusive pricks.

Paper Imp Zodi is very appropriate for this game for reasons that will become clear with time.

For what it's worth: Figments are a lot easier to find. There's like... One I've heard of that's really tricky and that's it. The hardest part of collectibles in this game is that you're very much intended to come back and explore more later... For like, everywhere.

All of the returning powers from the first game have quality-of-life improvements.

Something to note: Laboto very clearly has a "Glasgow Grin," his cheeks were cut open to give the appearance of a smile, and it didn't heal properly. Between that, his prosthetic arm, and the fact that the top of his skull is gone leaving his shower cap as the only thing protecting his otherwise exposed brain... _what the **** has this poor broken man been through_ besides the stuff we already know about?

All of the enemies introduced in this game are very thematic, but I'll touch on that as you get to them.

Like regrets: At the end of RoR, Loboto's moral compass is restored and thus he gains the ability to tell right from wrong. Thus, he begins to regret his life choices. And as they say, Regrets weigh you done... As represented by them dropping heavy weights on you.

"repair the construct" means fix the office.

The level of warped in a mindscape is directly proportionate to the form and manifestation of the mental illness of the mind holder, often in ways that make it abundantly clear what you're dealing with.

Make note of the two eyes in the one poser, and how it repeats as a motif.

Note: If you burn Lili's poster last she doesn't do the "just kidding" bit or keep talking to you so...

Regarding the difficulty of Pyrokinesis: I'm not sure where exactly, but somewhere Raz mentions that Pyrokinesis is more difficult for him than other psychic powers and that Lili is much better at it than he is.

Doubts vomit up a noxious purple goo hat slows you down... To represent being held back by your doubts. And I don't need to explain the symbolism of introducing it here, the game does it for me.

Did you know that there are certain kinds of cancer where clusters of malformed teeth will form in the tumor? Guess what made me think of that.

Pay close attention to the mnemonic Loboto uses here.

----------


## LaZodiac

> To be fair, the first game didn't have fall damage so it's kind of weird that this one does.
> 
> Regarding the mental health advisory: They mean it when they say that this is a game about Empathy and healing. I genuinely beleive that the approach to treating mental illness taken in these games is how it should go... Minus the little boy astral projecting into your mind part.
> 
> Something you'll notice in this game: Almost all of the "people" mental constructs look like muppets.
> 
> It's very interesting just how much control Loboto has of his own mindscape. He probably could have been the greatest psychic of his generation if his parents weren't bigoted abusive pricks.
> 
> Paper Imp Zodi is very appropriate for this game for reasons that will become clear with time.
> ...


First game does in fact have fall damage. It's from falling into pits.

I look forward to seeing it. Remember that I have never played this game before!

They are kinda muppet-y, yeah.

The quality of life changes have been great, though Pyrokinesis still feels a bit weird to use.

I mean we know what happened to him. He was lobotomized in a mental hospital. Nothing about his injuries is out of place, with that in mind.

Teratomas, yeah. They've got other bits in there too.

Yeah it's pretty obvious the eye symbolism is related to Whoever The Bad Person Is, and that the mnemonic he's using has relation to taking brains out and sending them off to another underwater lair lead by the Delugionists (which the title screen and file select screen is, naturally) and that he has to put new brains into the bodies that he harvests the brains from, all likely in some attempt to bring Maligula back from the dead, either as genuine necromancy or as a thoughtpatteren made sentient. That stuff's all pretty obvious by the end of the tutorial, at least to me. I'm likely wrong on some details but its like, there.

----------


## Rater202

Okay, picking back up, we're approaching a part that's... a little painful. Razputin gets so much disrespect in the early parts of the game. I mean, it makes sense that he'd be disrespectedfrom Hollis's perspective, he's just some little kid who thinks he can be a psychonaut becuase he's got all of the merit badges at camp(not to mention she's stressed the Hell out) and the Interns probably aren't happy that some kid that hasn't even hit his growth spurt yet to squeezed into their exclusive class at the last minute but that doesn't make it any less cringe. In my opinion, this and this alone is probably the most difficult part of the game to get through. I can handle horrifying imagery, but this is just flat-out bullying.

Of course, I'm _very_ sensitive to things like this for reasons I think I've explained in the banter thread.

On Razputin's comment about Oleander: Something you'll notice in this game is that "sane" Oleander isn't that different from "driven monomaniacally insane by a combination of repressed childhood trauma and psitanium poisoning" Oleander. Which, in hindsight, explains a lot.

And this is what I'm talking about**: There's literally no reason to paste Raz's nametag _over_ the psychonauts badge that Ford gave Raz.

"He didn't really do much of anything." He cured Fred, Gloria, Edgar, and Oleander of the basic traumas that, combined with psitanium exposure, left them all bat**** insane. Also saved the world. Twice, due to the official psychonauts on scene being incapacitated first by falling into a trap and then again by falling victim to psilirium poisoning.

Like, Raz and Ford are the only ones across both games so far who actually get things done.

Yeah, Raz has some bad habits that need ironing out, but... Right now he's basically being discriminated against becuase of his age. Hollis says she'll talk with the other agents but I don't think she actually doesSasha, Milla, and Oleander all already treat him like he's an agent.

Remember: Cadet/Intern Rank is directly tied to Power LEvel and those cards and markers increase yor Rank. Why woulnd't they scatter them around in case someone needs to boost their power level between missions. Of course, Raz is more proactive about grabbing them than other people, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

That bit about unauthorized power use is probably a handwave for why Raz can't use Invisibility, Confusion, or Shield. It makes sense that they woulnd't trust an Intern to use... two of those powers. Not sure about Shield though, but Raz _did_ canonically achieve Rank 101 which means that his shield is spikey and hurty.

Back in Rhombus of Ruin, they bring up that Loboto was working for Olander and Loboto mentions that his services are in high demand and that he was moonlighting for someone else while working with Oleander.

If you talk to one of the brain balls, they'll say that their body is sick and they had themselves temporarily debrained and put in a ball in order to be able to work while their body rests and recover. And, I mean, why not? If you can do it safely. I'd be a bit concerned about the work culture that encourages such a thing, but it's better than making people bring their sick bodies in and everything we see about the Psychonauts indicates that it's an awesome job that people love doing, so...

There's a one-off line that implies that "egg" is just psychic slang for brain, but I do have a theory for why the term might be used between two evil plans regardless.

Some of the pins are cosmetic and some of them actually do things.

"Honey pepper boar bacon" is made of the rare Honey Pepper Boar.

Again. Egg just seems to be general slang for brains. "Fold in the eggs" would thus be slang for some procedure or another. I'm assuming Mind Sex given the other implications of the conversation.

Raz is 10.

Lili is also 10. It's honestly a little concerning that she and Raz are in a romantic relationship at this age becuase it doesn't seem like they're just playing around... Though Raz does spend much of this game confused on whether or not it's serious.

As an aside, when they were promoting this game before release it was mentioned that Raz would get a better understanding of what terms like "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" actually mean. Keep that in mind.

...Oh god, Raz has got it bad.

Bobbie is probably not related to Bobby...

Des Sam look familiar? She should.

Keep in mind: Raz has basically no real-life experience. He has been homeschooled by his family in the circus and he has the last two games. Between that, being ten, and wanting desperately to fit in and be acknowledged after a lifetime of repressing who he is out of fear of how his family will react...

On that note: There's a bit of Rainbow Lensing in this gameusing something that isn't being LGBT as a metaphor for being LGBT and the associated struggles. I don't know if you get to that part in this stream but... I don't know how well it plays out, but I do think it's a little weird that they do that in a game that does, in fact, have a couple of openly gay characters who you will meet later.

Raz never gets revenge on the other interns. He honestly gets something I think is better.

Also, I think its interesting to note that Raz seems to be picking up a smattering of Zoolepathy just by making friends with a rat. He clearly doesn't _perfectly_ understand, but he picks up more than you'd expect.

Clairvoyance everyonemore than once. Unlike the first game, some characters have their mental image of Raz change over time. Also, some views of Raz have changed since the first game. Milla's view of Raz in particular I think is interesting.

Sasha dresses Raz up in some of his own clothes. Remember in the first game, how Sasha saw Raz as a younger version of himself?

'No no, I didn't bend the spoons mommy" is... horrifying in the context of Rhombus of Ruin.

So side note: If you stick around in Sasha's lab long enough, Loboto will have a lucid moment where tells Sasha not to feel bad and mention that he knows that his mind is a mess. He wants to make up for what he did but he's too messed up in the head and too afraid of what his employer will do to him to talk. It's kind of sad.

You also get the impression that Loboto is less of a prisoner and more of a patient in this context.

Sasha basically says that Hazing rituals are a way for groups to welcome new members while still feeling as if their groups are exclusive and not to take it too seriously. Interesting that he's taking the sociological perspective of it. He's not saying that it's okay, he's saying that the interns *probably* weren't malicious about the prank. The Interns get some character development later and Sasha's comment provides some context to that.

If you go to the blinking lights in Sasha's lab Raz can ask about them and Sasha admits that he leaves the machines in "display mode" when he's not using them becuase the blinky glowy buttons provide a nice ambiance.

The Agent doesn't just see you as a personhe says "hey little agent" and sees you as a "little agent." He has no idea who you are beyond "kid in the intern program" but he respects you and figures you'll graduate. That's nice. Random background agent is a nice guy.

By the way: Buring Norma's not a good idea. She's a Pyrokensis expert. All the kids have expert-level proficiency in one specific psychic power.

It's not really touched on, but every psychic in this universe has at least one "specialty" power that comes naturally to them, making it much easier for them to learn. Some Psychics have more than one specialty, and specialties tend to run in families: Everyone in Lili's family has some degree of ability in controlling or communicating with plants, for example.

Most Psychics tend to master their specialty first or legitimately "specialize" in it.

One of the special things about Raz is that he's able to easily master psychic powers outside of his own specialty. It's suggested that Raz's specialty is clairvoyance becuase it's the only power he was able to keep when his powers were suppressed by the Psilerium, but he easily masters pretty much every power he learns or, in the context of being given badges by Linda, Boyd, and Edgar just flat out copying them.

Norma's specialty is burning things.

Sam is... She's just like that.

A calliope is a type of instrument that produces a loud tone by sending steam or compressed air through repurposed train whistles. Some can be played like an organ, others can be rudimentary automated. There is no way t regulate their volume, and some of them can be heard for literal miles.

On Limitless: Achieving 102 rank doesn't mean you've 100% the game. There are achievements to get that aren't directly related to Intern Rank.

Also, the free patch they released a few days ago adds repeatable combat challenges to the post-game for the sake of making it easier to get enemy based achievements and giving people who have Rank 102 something to do with their Unlimited Power *Blasts someone with lighting*

(It also gives some quality of life updates, some of which are by default and some of which are unlocked Post Game.)

And without spoiling anything, there are some dangling plot threads but no overt sequel hook, leading some people to suspect that there's DLC in the works.

I think the Austin Powers connection is a coincidence, at least on Milla's end: Remember, she's a child of the 60s. That's the kind of fashion she thinks is cool. To Milla, Raz is no longer a baby in need of protection, but a confident young man who is fun to be around.

Edit: The one agent doesn't just see you as a vending machine, she sees you as a cigarette machine. some other members of the staff see Raz as a coffee machine. Because he's an Intern, you see, so they don't see a future fellow agent, they see you as someone who goes and brings them things.

----------


## LaZodiac

Zeldaaaar
*
Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [7] Butler Race*

*Video Length: 24:20*

With Woodfall done and princess successfully bottled, it is time to do some of the stuff we unlock for doing that! The first, and what takes up most of this video to be frank, is the Butler Race with the Deku Butler, a rather tricky little timed obstacle course. If you remember the Dampe races in Ocarina of Time, this is on those levels... though not AS bad, since while it IS timed, you don't have a time to beat. You just need to clear it at all. Please correct me if that's wrong it has been awhile. Finishing the race gets you the Mask of Scents, a snorty little pig face that lets us find mushrooms, and also the shoe dropping of "you remind me of my son", connecting the disfigured and crying deku-like tree in the intro of the game to our mask very concretely. That's pretty sad!

At least we do save the monkey, which is nice. We did also save the swamp too. It really speaks to how much evil the Skull Kid is spreading around that our happy ending to this part of the story is "things are back to normal". Things haven't even improved, we just set things back to square one- arguably not even that since the Butler's son is still dead. It's a lot to think about, and the first real moment you should realize Majora's Mask is not the sort of game Ocarina was, where the things you do are actively improving things.

That aside, we go save Koume again, and in doing so use our newfound piggy mask to sniff up some arcane truffles. Delicious!... though not for eating. We'll get into their purpose next time. Until then, take care! Hope you all enjoyed!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 3, Day 2: Chasing Things in Woods*
Link:.....how did you remember the promise I made from a different loop?
Monkey:.......uuuuuuuh, lost woods magic means your also lost in time, don't think about it too hard.

and your reward for giving old man and the spirit of the mask your wearing closure is......pigface McOinkmask.

yeah well, I've watched this analysis of Majora's Mask that went into detail on this. a lot of what happens in this game is how people and societies respond to a crisis, on a personal, collective and leadership level, and much of whats presented is kind of sad when you think about it. also the whole loss and regret stuff thats more obvious.

----------


## Rater202

Before I dive into this, some thoughts from Saturday's Pcyhonaut's stream that I didn't get into last time for reasons*Spoiler: This might get long*
Show

So the interesting thing about Hollis's Hotstreak? Raz isn't fully responsible. As we've all noted, Raz was heavily peer pressured, but... Hollis herself was very irresponsible in the events leading up to this.

She refused to make sure that Raz was made aware of the lesson when he asked, then left a bunch of teenagers unsupervised _in her mind_ while giving them blanket permission to mess around with her stray thoughts and loose ideas.

Despite this, and despite the peer pressure, without which neither of which Raz would have done this... He still doesn't try to shift the blame. Even though he's only partially responsible, he takes *full* responsibility.

Hollis is pissed off, rightfully so... But calms down when he does so.

On Truman: I read it as "you screwed up, but you have potential." Hollis didn't do what she did out of Malice: She got screwed over bad and tried to get a measure of justice for herself by changing the man who did it into a man who would feel remorse for it. And when she screwed up and couldn't fix it, she called in help from the only people who could.

So it's less "join my shady organization" and more "you have potential. Why don't you come with me and learn how to use your powers for good?"

This comes back to Raz: Raz doesn't get punished for this, becuase _she_ didn't get punished for it. Instead, Hollis gives Raz the same chance she got. And judging from her behavior from this point on... I think the fact that Raz immediately took full responsibility, something that requires a level of maturity that a lot of adults don't have, is what earned Raz Hollis's respect.

Though, not completly: If we take "egg" to be standard slang for brains, then by giving him the codename Eggbeater, Hollis is saying that Raz scrambles brains.

Another thing to note: Prior to connecting "Risk" to "Money," all of the mental connections that Raz forms break apart after he drops out of them and Hollis's orignal ideas reassert themselves, but afterward all of the ideas that Raz forms stay that way until changed.

Hollis is under an unbearable amount of stress, most of it financial related. She is, in fact, probably the exact kind of person who would develop an addiction under the right circumstances. Between that and the opportunity to go to a high-roller casino where, with a little luck, she could walk away with a heavily padded budget and Raz's actions are more like tipping over a domino when hundreds of others are laid out just right.

Later on, the connection he makes align to what Hollis was like _prior_ to him doing that. He's setting individual dominoes back up.

And without too many spoilers, I would suggest clairvoyance the interns again.


Zelda!

It's a good thing you don't have to match the tempo to get the songs to play.

"Sorry, I won't do it again"
*Does it again.*

...So the Princess outranks the king to the point of being able to bowl him over and stomp on him? Seems legit.

Deku Butler looks like someone shaved a Chia Head.

Butler: "You remind me of my son"
Link: *Is wearing the Butler's son's hollowed-out soul like a Halloween costume and has been on and off ever since said son was murdered* "Really? No Idea why you'd think that."

It is quite rude that the game doesn't let you commit breaking, entering, and burglary like the Zelda games do.

And Link is getting ready to go on a trip.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (5)*
Show




> Majora's Mask time! Lets dive into the first dungeon!
> 
> *Zodi Plays: Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [5] Woodfall Down*
> 
> *Video Length: 19:31*
> 
> In this episode, we start Woodfall Temple, and get our first real impression of what people mean when they call Majora's Mask an "Expert Zelda". The time limit (even if you can extend it) and collecting all the fairy pieces, plus the fact that there are optional rooms means that, at least within the scope of me playing Zelda games for the internet, these are probably going to be the most complex dungeons. Adding to that is that there will be times where the game asks us to do things that I genuinely don't know how you'd learn beyond just... experimenting and figuring it out, but once learned are now inbuilt and unforgettable. It's fascinating!
> 
> As a slight update; I'm going back to working in the office basically full time. This means my schedule will be kinda slammed. I will try to keep up the uploads, but sorry if it slips again! Hope you all enjoyed, we'll see you all next time for the rest of Woodfall Temple.





Strong start to a strong dungeon.  So many enemies!  You doubled your count of kills and then some with this dungeon episode...funny how that works...



*EPISODE 5 KILL TALLY!*

Black Boe - 21
Beehive - 4
Skulltula - 3
Deku Baba - 10
Snapper - 3
Giant Bee - 1
Dragon Fly - 3
Bubble - 2
Dinolfos - 1

Style Points - 0
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 2
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 5_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Bubble - 2
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 7
Dinolfos - 1
Eeno - 1
Leever - 1
Octo, Big - 1
Snapper - 4
Wolfos - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 5_
Baba, Deku - 13

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 5
Hiploop - 2
Skulltula, Big - 5

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 87

*1st Place* - Black Boe, at 21!
*2nd Place* - Deku Baba, at 13!
*3rd Place*  - Bad Bat and Mad Deku Scrub, tied at 7!

*Total Style Points* - 3

*Total Missed Rupees* - 38
*Total Lost Rupees* - 11

----------


## LaZodiac

Time for some brain blasting!

*Zodi Streams: Psychonauts 2 [2] The Gross Episode*

*Video Length: 4:55:00*

In this episode, we get to meet Raz's family, learn a bit more about what is going on, and do the rest of the really gross minds. Hopefully it's the last ones like... this.

----------


## Rater202

Judging from the preview images when I highlight part of the timer bar on the youtube upload, you've done... Most of the grossness. Still some _maybe_ icky but that's more subjective.

And, it seems that next time you'll probably be doing my _favorite_ level in... Not only in this game but in the franchise.I like the Raz, and only Raz, is in the front of the jet participating in the debriefing.

The other Interns helped, of course, but... Well, as I said before, it legitimately seems like Raz's willingness to take full responsibility when he did something wrong earned him Hollis' respect. Milla and Sasha already see him as a fellow agent as demonstrated by, well, bringing him to the Rhombs of Ruin and referring to him as their "anti-kidnapping specialist" but now... He's still an intern, but... Ironically, Raz violating her mind seems to have made Hollis trust him.

You called Gisu "he" when clairvoyance her.

So a thing with Norma that the game doesn't really go into: You know how every intern has an assigned mentor? I'm not sure if you'll find this out during gameplay since I don't know when or where you learn it, but her assigned mentor is Sasha.

Sasha who is impressed with Raz's power, talent, and potential.

Sasha who took Raz under his wing and offered him special training in the first game.

Sasha who took Raz on an official psychonauts mission to rescue Truman Zonatto and already sees him as a full-fledged agent.

Sasha who looks at Raz and sees a younger version of himself.

Sasha who dressed Raz up to look like Sasha.

Norma doesn't just think that Raz is the mole becuase she's a total Heather... Though, I mean, she is.

Norma's _jealous_ of Razputin.

All the other Interns respect Raz now, after he saved them, showed off that he was more than qualified to be there, and in general got to be an awesome Agent if only for one mission.

But not Norma.

And no: Adam doesn't see you the same way Sasha does.

He sees you the same way _Ford_ does. A full-fledged Psychonaut ready for duty. Sasha sees a little Sasha.

Like I said last time: a lot of the staff see you as just an intern and think of interns not as "a future coworker" or "someone being taught to do the job" but as someone who does things. "Bring me tea, bring me coffee, go get me a pack of cigarettes."

Nick Johnsmith is voiced by Elijah Woods, who played Frodo Baggins in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy.

...Something very similar to The Milkman is involved in the plot, but not... Quite the same thing.

Jung is specifically the psychologist who first popularized the idea of the collective unconscious.

He also had such ideas as "the Persona" which is a mask you put on to protect yourself from the struggles of life and the "Shadow," which is all the parts of yourself that you are not aware of or that you actively reject and that developing awareness and acceptance of your shadow is important to being a functioning, healthy adult.

If that sounds familiar, congratulations you've played _Persona.
_

I think it's very interesting that Sasha scolds Raz for violating someone's mind... And then gives him blanket permission to use the Brain Tumbler to go back into other people's minds. So... You haven't lost his trust. He's not angry at Raz, he's just disappointed.

The "All the Items" is part of the patch from earlier this month btw. The vast majority of it is just... Quality of life stuff like that.

The gooey ones are doubts. Regrets are the ones that drop things on you.

Yeah. Loboto's perception of reality is kind of skewed.

On the topic of Oleander's false memory, I've seen some fans speculate that Oleander's "specialty" is Psychic defense. While memory vaults aren't 100% reliable, he's the only one who has a vault that contains an outright Falsehood. The battlefield in his mind is clearly a construct of his own creation... In which he's able to hide his *actual* memory behind a mental Cobweb, which is otherwise depicted as being something in an unused part of your mind.

And when you get the forcefield power from the resistors in Linda's mind, they tell you that i's a "shield generator" that they stole from CoachameraIE, Raz copied the forcefield from the manifestation of Olander's influence in Linda's mind. (Note: when Fighting Coachamera, he uses melee combinations, the basic psi blast, and defensive power.) And of all three of the instructors at the camp, Oleander is the one who seems the most impressed by Raz's natural mental defenses.

In regard to aesthetics: Context clues suggest that the game takes place in the 80s or maybe early 90.

So naturally, with the Psychonauts being founded about 20 years ago, 60s/70s aesthetics would be the style with the architecture and it's when a lot of these people would have been young so it's what they would think is "cool."

So apparently there is a very, *very* brief moment where Hollis considers that Raz might be the mole and sees him as such out I don't know where/when it is. It might be right after the conversation where she brings up Grulovia.

Also, it should be noted that supplementary materials indicate that the Galochios, the family that cursed Raz, is noted to be powerful hydrokinetics.

Solid Snake wasn't Big Boss: Big Boss was his father, who also went by Naked Snake and Venom Snake*Spoiler*
Show

Though plot twist: Venom Snake was actually a body double.


It's a little weird that Raz has access to the Grand Head of the Psychonaurt's office.

That was Bob Zanatto, Truman's uncle.

Compton Boole: Who, if you remember, Lizzie said was her mentor.

That's *not* what I meant when I said to pay attention to the eyes, actually. Neither confirming or denying the conclusion you drew based on it though.

If you remember the recap: Raz mentions that Ford's psychic specialty is teleportation and that Ford's ability to manifest when summoned if an aspect of his teleportation power. He basically planted a small tracker in Raz's mind and when the tracker is triggered he uses it as a medium to basically portal himself to Raz's location to give the kid advice.

Also: Raz asked permission before diving into Ford's head. That's going to be a recurring theme from now on... The consent is sometimes... Dubious, but Raz doesn't invade people's minds without permission anymore, even as part of official psychonauts business. He's already taking what he learned from the Lucktopus incident to heart.

It's less that brains are the equivalent of eyes in Naruto and more that bodies are. Also, remember that the only person we see getting an eye transplant in Naruto without surgery is Madara, who had a crazy strong healing factor at the time.

For the record, there's some heavy stuff that comes with Fixing Ford's brain. I don't know if it needs a trigger warning, but... When you get to complete Ford's mind, there's some... I don't want to spoil anything but it goes to some dark place.

You know, you'd think that Psycho Mantis would be the pick for a Metal Gear reference in a mindscrewy game about psychics.

Agustus: "Did you show them? Did you show them all?"
Raz: "...We're not mad scientists, Dad."

So props to Agustus: He realized that his internalized anti-psychic prejudice was hurting his son, so he... Let it go. His love for his son was stronger than his fear and hatred of his fellow psychics born from the death of his father and the family curse. He's even going so far as to embrace his own repressed powers in support of his son.

The problem is... Well... The rest of the family isn't so flexible. But we'll get to that in detail later.

Needlessly agro, Hollis.

On Otto: It is very interesting that a scientist and engineer is depicted here with a "don't think, feel" type approach. That kind of thing is usually applied to mystics. Honestly, I can kind of dig it. Creating is a valid way to express emotion.

I don't think Raz actually signed any NDA. Clairvoyance Otto when you get the chance.

Abbie Normal is a reference to _Young Frankenstein._ Int hat movie, when Frankenstein's descendant decides to recreate the experiment to create the creature, he sends his assistant to get a preserved brain in a jar only to realize too late that the brain was faulty. Turns out his assistant misread "Abnormal" as "Abbie Normal." So liting a brain named Abbie Normal as having died from a movie reference... honestly it implies that Abbie was killed jut so her brain could be used in this reference.

Of course, it's a level. You can't expect to pop a brain in Nick's head without making sure there's anything in there.

"Have fun putting Jack Black inside Elijah Woods" is one of those things that I just want people to randomly say out of context in public just to see how people react.

You can buy filters for the camera in the Ottomatic. That quality of life patch I mentioned earlier adds one, only available in the post-game, that highlights collectibles when you're using the camera to look around. Very useful for finding those last couple of figments.

The Thought Tuner reveals tray thoughts in the overworlds, creating pathways you can traverse with mental connection.

...And you figured it out.

On the jar discussion, I think we should consult an expert:


> Dr. Wheelo: This is NOT a body! It can't taste, or smell, or touch! I am a brain trapped in an EXOSKELETON!
> Piccolo: When you think about it, aren't we all jus- [Wheelo immediately slaps him unconscious in frustration]
> Dr. Wheelo: NO!


All of the extras in this game look like they walked off the set of _Sesame Street._

As an aside: In the first game it was established that Raz's backpack can't hold glass jars with all the other stuff he had on him but that brains were "compressible."

I'm pretty sure that Harold was winning.

If you tell Compton about the mole, he thinks you're talking about an actual mole and admits that he doesn't care for them.

Sam is... just like that.

Note: That is clearly a male goat.

Since _Invader Zim_ was brought up, and in case it isn't obvious, Raz is voiced by Richard Steven Horvitz who did Zim's voice, among those of several other characters. There's a little Easter Egg later on in the game that's specifically there for Invader Zim fans.

And yes, Sam is a Boole... And apparently, people have tried to network with her for street cred? Might be part of why she's so... Not the being off, she's probably just like that, but the specific meanness of her offness.

...Burn that toilet. You know what, **** it, burn the entire flapjack shack down. *Fire is the cleanser.*

The first game seemed to take place on a "real" Earth. Supplementary materials made this explicit: According to his Campster Profile, Bobby Zilch is from Drywell, Missouri and he lists his favorite music as "AC/DC.  Metallica.  Sabbath. Dio. Y&T. Megadeath. Krokus. Judas Priest. Scorpions. Quiet Riot. KISS. Montrose. Ozzy. Van Halen. Iron Maiden. Saxxon. Motorhead!"

From Rhombus of Ruin onward, however... It seems to be more a fictionalized version of Earth: the fictional country of Grulovia, for one. Also, well... The fact that early 2000 level internet access existed when this game is implied to take place in the 80s or early 90s.

you kind of sequence broke finding Queepie like that, I think.

And uh... Raz's family. Let's start with his mother.

Donatella is... A contrast to Agustus. Note how she refers to the psychic phenomena of the inverted waterfall as "unnatural and gimmicky." That's caused by Psitanium, which is a naturally occurring substance. She refers to the trick inspired by it as the Devil's firehose, she reacts poorly to Agustus being more open about his own psionic nature and attempts to work it into the act. She clearly has her own biases against psychics and isn't having as easy a time letting them go as Agustus did.

And let's not forget that the first thing she says to Rz is "I forgive you" and some dismissive comment about runaway children instead of addressing why he ran away... You might notice that she's a bit... Passive agressive. She refers to the whole experience as a "little adventure" and... It's like he expects Raz to just... Get it out of his system and go back to being an acrobat.

Backtracking a bit, Frazie is also psychic, but unlike Raz, she's not open with it. She wants to... Ignore it. She's worried about how the family will react, and she takes her feelings out on Raz.

And I'm stopping here for the night.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Latter half of the Second Psychonauts 2 stream:*
I knew I'd get judged for liking edgy dark heroes eventually......come at me, that hammer can't scare me.

the doubts and insecurities of not measuring up to other psychonauts through iron chef the brain......definitely one of the weirder levels here.

Zodi's theories do sound plausible. 

so the Boole brain was all about man judging himself probably more harshly than others judge him.

the first Ford brain was about him trying to deal with his relationship with Lucrecia ending, the second was him trying to deal with what Lucrecia had done during a war and how that had changed her as a person.

Edit: I've finally figured out why some people see Raz as a pitcher: its because they see him as a water boy. he is something that brings water to them. its just another intern-as-vending-machine thing.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Big Rater Post compressing to save space.


Ah, good, more gross may in fact be coming. Not surprised.

I did not call Gisu he. She and he are words that sound very similar and my voice is very wispy and slurred a lot of the time, so it just sounded like I said he.

I kinda figured Norma was interning with Hollis because her scavenger hunt list is from Hollis, but fair point.

I mean I was familiar with Jung before I played Persona, but fair.

As I mention later in the stream, the Psychonauts feel like a super villain organization with good PR. Sasha scolding Raz for nearly causing permanent brain damage to their leader, but that being ALL he gets, is a great example of that.

Oleander being specialized in defense makes sense, yeah.

I'm really glad that Raz is learning not to immediate jump into people's brains. It is good of him.

Ford's two brains that we've been through so far is "the woman I loved became a mass murdering psychopath" and "we were a psychic research group hired by the world government to go assassinate the woman I loved, and it left all of us either dead or broken" so yeah no I'm expecting something dark, but thanks for the warning regardless.

What's really funny is that Otto has that "don't think, feel" mentality, but is also a completely amoralistic monster who is so jovial even he doesn't realize it.

It being a male goat is why my reaction was what it was. The truth being that it was a bird makes it all the more concerning! Or less! It's really unclear!

You can have a basically just the real world setting but have fake places in it for plot reasons. Raz and fam is from Grulovia because having them be from the real place Grulovia is obviously coded as would make it a little "eeeeh".

Donatella's comment is equal parts dismissive and also the exact sort of "haha see I support you but also don't do it again" thing I'd expect from a mother like her. To put it bluntly, while I don't dislike her as much as other recent video game moms, she's not high on that list.




> *Latter half of the Second Psychonauts 2 stream:*
> I knew I'd get judged for liking edgy dark heroes eventually......come at me, that hammer can't scare me.
> 
> the doubts and insecurities of not measuring up to other psychonauts through iron chef the brain......definitely one of the weirder levels here.
> 
> Zodi's theories do sound plausible. 
> 
> so the Boole brain was all about man judging himself probably more harshly than others judge him.
> 
> ...


That WOULD make sense, though it is delivered in a very strange way.

But then, this is Psychonauts. That's sort of the MO of this game.

----------


## Rater202

Something I failed to note: Queepie is apparently Superhumanly strong.

Nona is a little senile. Every time you Clairviyance her she randomly sees you as one of Raz's brothers because she's starting to have trouble telling you apart. It's a little sad.

Mirtala is a little too young to fully understand the situation with Raz and the rest of the family. She just wants everyone to be happy and looks up to her big brothershe sees him as like, a Ringmaster or a Liontamer.

Back to Donatella for a moment: Despite her... Passive-aggressive behavior and dismissive attitude, she still sees Raz as her little baby. So, he's operating on ignorance,  not malice... Though the "I'd rather die in water" response to "what if everyone were singing" suggestion is kind of insensitive considering that her husband, mother-in-law, and all of her children are cursed to one day do that.

And thats why the Aquato's are called that: They used to specifically be a _water_ circus. From context, however, it seems that the Aquato's were just part of the circus, which suggests that Donatella was maybe someone else from the circus who married Agustus, and then they left together when concerns about the curse got to be too much?

I notice that Raz's family uses "Fortune Teller" almost like a slur.

Dion... Dion is complicated. Listen to what he says and it seems like he's almost jealous of Raz, kind of resents that he ran away... He's also got some really ignorant ideas about psychics and is very much biased against them.

I've seen some people theorize that Dion loves his little brother, but also hates and fears psychics the most out of the entire family and those two conflicting emotions clash with each other and manifest as anger and resentmentnotice the instant regret after he says "we'll be better when _you're_ out." He's really angry at Raz, he's confused about a complicated situation that breaks apart his worldview and doesn't know how to deal with it. He looks to be about 15, too, you know, the worst year of puberty, which would only complicate the issue.

You _only_ get the dive if you help build the Aquatodome. I don't recall if every sidequest is like this, but they encourage you to do them with things other than just "raise your psi-intern rank." Also, note that it's explicitly Dion who taught Raz how to do this.

...Okay, how did a Psi-Challenge MAker get there? Did... Did Raz's family just have one on them that they use for decoration?

So thing I want to comment on: Raz's circus upbringing is what makes him such a good psychonaut. In addition to his acrobatics training being very useful for getting around, it's made abundantly clear that using Mental Connection to pull enemies to you, or pull yourself to stray thoughts, is not the intended use(Though Raz' version is still able to perform the intended use, albeit in a less direct manner) which he directly says is becuase he still ha sa circus mindset.

Most Psychonauts were either raised for it or came from regular civilian backgrounds, it seems. Raz is thinking outside the box and that lets him use psychic powers in novel ways that are more versatile or effective than standard.

Pm Falataways: I feel it's important to note that this area is apparently one of, if not the, largest deposits of naturally occurring Psitanium in the world. There's a reason why Ford and Otto were mining not far from here, and Psitanium makes physics go wonkyyou've already seen the upsidedown waterfall and the waterwheel that spins on t's own faster than the water should make it, but the Questionable Area? is basically an eldrtich lcoation that makes Whispering Rock look normal in comparison.

(also, the large deposits of psitanium is probably why the inside of the Asylum has some wonky geometry.)

I think it's charming that Raz just genuinely enjoys a funicular ride.

"Just until eh circus makes enough dough to pay for the trip home."
"So forever?"

...Also, if Frazie can talk to her horse does that mean she has Zoolepathy?

I love how they just set up a bunch of made-up tourist trappy crap in an area with actual supernatural phenomena in plain sight. Like, you don't have to make up stuff about sasclops when there's an actual upside-down waterfall.

Queepie wants to differentiate himself from his older brother: He wants to have his own thing that he doesn't share with his siblings(dancing to rock music) but is otherwise in the same boat as Mitala:  doesn't really understand the problems that the older family members have, and he looks up to Raz.

And yes! Maligula is the psychic who cursed the Aquato family.

so in the last game, Raz claimed to clean up after the elements so he knows how o deal with **** in response to being confronted by? Oleander, and... Donatella is not a nice person.

Note: Agustus was able to astral project into Raz's mind despite Raz's impressive mental defenses apparently without the help of a Psychoportal, and Psiblast away Raz's corrupted mental image of himself, but is having trouble with Pyrokinesis.

Also note: In the first game, Raz said that people call him... Raz.

Nobody in his family calls him that. He made it up on the sport to try and make himself look cool.

Judges represented the feeling of being judged, but also the poor judgments of others. You first encounter them in the mind of someone who thinks that everyone else is judging him for his perceived shortcomings.

And his anxiety is represented by a ridiculously high-pressure cooing competition/gameshow with some weird gimmicks and where you have to cook the audience alive... And they're all creepily eager for it.

I think the bit with the audience is an abstract representation of something from one of Compton's mental vaults, but we'll see if you grabbed that one.

...A ****, I just got the pun with "Ram" it down.

The Grulovian Drowned Egg is obviously a metaphor for Compton's feelings about what happened with Maligula.

I love how Raz is clearly just Bsing and the Judges eat it up: It shows that the problem is more lack of confidence on Compton's part than anything else.

Notice how, after the cooking show starts, that the Judges are wearing chef hats and are carrying Meat Tenderizers instead of gavels...  Which was commented on.

Yeah... I think the happy cheering audience literally lining up to die might be representative of the incident when Compton tried to free the lab animals.

Note that the eggs all have a feminine voice but are referred to as male. I don't know if that was an oversight or an attempt at LGBT representation.

I'm not sure what the second dish represents to be completly honest.

And youtube has decided to be a butt so I'm going to have to finish later.

edit: And the third just comes out and says what it's representative of: Compton feeling that he's shamed his old friends and, by extension the Psychonauts.

Also, completly honest a pancake stack made with honey pepper bacon, a fried egg, and watermelon jam sounds delicious. I wonder if anyone ever tried to recreate it in real life yet.

You kind of missed it, but when you drop off a pig at Pork Chopper the pig calls Pork Chopper "grandpa" and he's all like "oh god this keeps getting weirder."

Raz has comments upon returning to worlds, something to keep in mind if you plan to go reclaims stuff.

Note: The double Down is basically what Compton's done to himself: He stays alone in his isolation chamber, depending on his interns to bring him what he needs for both work and relaxation.  Except now he's dreading it, because he's not looking at it the same way.

So the Lucktopus was essentially an overgrown bad idea: It was born from Raz's bad idea to make a bad connection between two idea in Holli' mind, and you fight it by using tk to throw its bomb back at it and using mental connection to get in close and lay the smackdown, the two most effective way to defeat a bad idea.

The Gluttonous Goats? Same Idea: They're Overgrown Judges, born from Compton' flawed judgments of his two friends and his current boss(while hi overall boss takes a secondary noncombatant role but till put on the pressures) who express all of the criticisms that he thinks they feel toward him and you fight them by throwing what they try to hurt you with back in their face.

(Alternatively, force-feeding them their own vomit, but all prettied up, is symbolically making them eat their words.)

Something else to note: There are no bad ideas at all in this stage. Mayhaps a hint that Compton is more capable than he believes?

I'm not sure of the significance of the three dishes in the double down, however. Especially since the ingredients you give don't seem to line up to what they ay it is.

The trash-talking for picking up the wrong ingredient even though you can't see is probably because... Well, this is all a manifestation of Compton's anxiety.

No, you didn't fix Compton. Compton seems to have an anxiety disorder and perhaps some kind of depression exasperated by the trauma of both his accidentally killing the animals and the aftermath of the Maligula incident... But you've given him the confidence to manage it, at least for now.

On Dark Thought: Dark Thoughts sometimes go to dark places.*Spoiler*
Show

In a level you'll get to either next week or the week after, one trail of dark thought leads to a figment... hanging at the end of a rope.

I don't know if they're all like that, but...


There' a conversation with Oleander in the bowling ally btw, I haven't seen if you noticed that.

Note that Lucy is lifting things with a _hand_ made of water.

So, with the world ending and he nutjobs saying that it won't... I have to wonder if Ford doesn't look back on his time with Lucy and think himself foolish for thinking it would last.

Ford's tongue looks like a Crunch ice cream bar.

Note that Raz rather than going back to his body, just sort of physically manifest in the air... I have to wonder... Is Ford so powerful that his psychic powers can warp reality? Will Raz get that powerful someday, with how much progress he's made in just a few days?

This game doen't go out of it's way to hide the twist. Instead it provides details for _why_ the twists.

----------


## LaZodiac

Insert bow and arrow pun here.

*Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [8] Perfect Score*

*Video Length: 24:32*

In this episode, we continue some post Woodfall clean up- mainly helping Koume and Kotake out once more so we can gain access to her swampland archery contest, which nets us a nice and shiny empty bottle! If I recall this is basically the only thing the Mask of Scents is used for. After that, we head to the Swamp Shooting Gallery, blasting through waves of Mad Scrubs, Wolfos, and those weird bird things I forget the name of to get a piece of heart AND a quiver upgrade. After that we return to Clock Town to do THEIR local shooting gallery, getting another piece of heart and our final quiver upgrade, which is quite vital. 

You see, the bow and arrow is one of the most important tools in Majora's Mask. We'll get more into it later, but the bow is used constantly throughout the game, more so than even Ocarina did. Having the maximum amount of arrows straight away will help us out immensely, not least of which because a powerful ranged weapon is just good to have on hand.

After that, we blow up more of Honey and Darling's stuff to get another fish ticket, then clean up two side quests I kinda let fall by the wayside initially; talking with the organ grinder Guru-guru to get the Bremen Mask, and using Kamoro's strange mystic dance to teach the Gormen Troupe dancers how to really work it, for another heart piece!

With that all done, I hope you enjoyed! See you all next time for... well, I'm not entirely sure. We'll see!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Loop 3, Day 2-B: Link the dancing, Animal-parading Master Archer*
I can't find any high scores for Koume's target cruise specifically, so your the highest score I've ever seen

oh no, not the cursed one again. okay cool he's gone

but for swamp shooting gallery? 2280 is just ten below the least high score of six high scores I can find for this. as in, there are six scores logged on the site I can find measuring this, so you'd be seventh- wait your doing again? ok 2400? okay better, your now beating sixth highest score on that and getting close to the fifth highest.

*hears the song of storms/windmill theme again* *goes wide eyed* get pumped every time I hear that. 

if this episode has shown us anything, its that if Link ever stops being a hero, he probably has a good future as a performer. and if he never picked up the master sword he'd probably still could be a hero through william tell-ing all his enemies to death alone.

----------


## Rater202

Yes witch, take the magic mushroom. _We need to Cook_

She'll never forgive you until you reset time again.

I see you found Spongebob's house.

Zodi you fool, the fishing minigame is how you get the Even_ Fiercer_ Deity Mask.

Of course perfect's not good zodi, perfect is the enemy of good.

When there further away they look sort of purple but the ones super close look more red.

"Walk up to two dancing ladies, do a weird dance for them,"
*S-Link 10: Dancing ladies would die for you.*

So... By using this bird mask the one guy stole from a dog in conjunction with a march played on the reality-warping mouth harp you carry, you can drastically shorten the lives of small animals. Is that what the comment about making young animal become an adult in an instant meant?

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Loop 3, Day 2-B: Link the dancing, Animal-parading Master Archer*
> I can't find any high scores for Koume's target cruise specifically, so your the highest score I've ever seen
> 
> oh no, not the cursed one again. okay cool he's gone
> 
> but for swamp shooting gallery? 2280 is just ten below the least high score of six high scores I can find for this. as in, there are six scores logged on the site I can find measuring this, so you'd be seventh- wait your doing again? ok 2400? okay better, your now beating sixth highest score on that and getting close to the fifth highest.
> 
> *hears the song of storms/windmill theme again* *goes wide eyed* get pumped every time I hear that. 
> 
> if this episode has shown us anything, its that if Link ever stops being a hero, he probably has a good future as a performer. and if he never picked up the master sword he'd probably still could be a hero through william tell-ing all his enemies to death alone.


Woo!

Less woo. Only sixth highest... but that's without really trying, so I think that's pretty solid.

Yeah, if Link ever put up the sword and decided to retire, he'd make a good hunter and stuff.




> "Walk up to two dancing ladies, do a weird dance for them,"
> *S-Link 10: Dancing ladies would die for you.*
> 
> So... By using this bird mask the one guy stole from a dog in conjunction with a march played on the reality-warping mouth harp you carry, you can drastically shorten the lives of small animals. Is that what the comment about making young animal become an adult in an instant meant?


Dang now I kinda want a Zelda game with social links.

I like to believe it just shape changes them a little bit.

----------


## Rater202

> Dang now I kinda want a Zelda game with social links.


I joke, but it is kind of ridiculous and even a little creepy that you walk up to them and do a silly dance and then they start bowing and scrapping and calling you master.

I'm pretty sure it's in an "instructor" sense but...

...I'm afraid to look for Fanfiction now.

----------


## LaZodiac

This is not the greatest stream in the world- this is just a tribute.
*
Zodi Streams: Psychonauts 2 [3] Buried Memories*

*Video Length: 5:11:39*

Today, we stream our way through more of Psychonauts 2! We finish finding Queepie, we have some fun with the mystery brain, fix up Ford's brain, learn a horrific secret, and then have some fun with bees. All in all, a pretty good stream. Do mind the technical difficulties, switched streaming programs.

----------


## Rater202

Regarding Ford's Follicles: The only "character" in there is the representation of that fragment of Ford's mind.

"Who gives a **** no one watches these anyway." Zodi, that's not true and you know it.

Well let's see: Lilly feels like she's a terrible daughter becuase she was annoyed by her father before he was kidnapped and had been badmouthing the psychonauts for years before Raz came around and reignited her passion. And then the last time you saw her, Raz accidentally implied that she was the mole.

Of course, she feels judged.

To be fair, "Dad I have a boyfriend" might not stick in her memory as well as "I don't want to be anything like you."

Huh. I thought that sidequest was a postgame thing.

An observation I keep forgetting to make: Lilly's voice sounds like she has trouble breathing through her nose. Her character design lacks nostrils. That's some good atteniton to detail.

Oh god, not that Easter Egg.

Oh god please tell me that's not actually the mushroom.

I still like that Raz genuinely enjoys the funicular. Makes sense. As a trained acrobat a fast ride probably just reminds him of work.

Okay, Lizzie doesn't realize that her mentor has up and left.

Real talk? Everyone's a mess. The measure of a human being is how you deal with your baggage.

Again: Unless you count falling into a pit, there was no fall damage in the first game. I get that in this game you can fall from much greater heights without it being a "pit" but with the fall damage on you'll take damage from falls that were nothing in the first game. It's especially weird since Agustus flat out says that all of the Auto children are trained to be able to shrug off a fall starting when they're babies.

The oarsman badge! Very important.

The most important pin in the game, of course, is the one that lets you pet the critters. Followed, of course, by the various cosmetic items. Gotta style all over their faces.

Sasclops, one-eyed big-foot.

Okay, good. Now seriously, burn that place the frick down. That's the only way to cleanse it.

I do support the idea of opening your third eye, Zodi. Then_ you_ can be the Psychonaut.

Alternatively: Badass vampire lady with an arm made of a shadowy ethereal substance.

I don't know if goat bacon would be good or not. I've never eaten goat. Eaten lamb... The ethical ramifications of that sometimes haunt me, but gyros are just too damn delicious.

Yes Donatella, your passive-aggressive snipes are very broad-minded.

Note the implication that Augustus never told Donatella that he was psychic. So, not 100% Donatella's fault but still, not exactly... Eh.

also, technically everything Raz does could be considered acrobatics practice. His background as a circus performer informs how he uses his powers and he does a lot of acrobatics just moving around. So... He's not lying.

Yeah, turns out that after spending an extended time as a brain in a jar and then suddenly having sensation again that the Ball of Light is suffering severe sensory overload and an extreme degree of synesthesia.

On consent: He _did_ act receptive when Raz said it would help, so...

First encounter with a panic attack: When someone is actually having a panic attack. And you can't beat it yet. Wonder why?

"I've already been in here one forever. Another forever won't kill me" just kind of tears my heart out.

And welcome to the world proper: Psi-Kings Sensorium! Best world in the game.

Raz is cell-shaded to match the world's sliders... And pay close attention to his goggles.

Look how fricking pretty this world is. There's the obvious inspiration from _Yellow Submarine,_ but there's also some Russian abstract art influence and even a touch of Loony Tunes. It all comes together quite nicely and... Eee!

Vison sounds familiar, right?

That figment was foreshadowing.*Spoiler: Minor spoilers, If you honestly can't wait*
Show

It was Bob Zanato standing under a wedding arch. In a room filled with a wedding cake figment, a pile of wedding presents figment, and the other members of the psychic six in formal wear as figments.


and again: This game doesn't really burry the lead when it comes to the plot twists... But it does present the twists in interesting ways. It's not _who_ the brain is that's important so much as it's why they ended up where they ended up.

I think the posters are flammable btw.

Heck yeah, that's a lot of fire... And a reminder: In Raz's own words, he's not that good a Pyrokinesis. Makes you wonder what he'd be cable of if he cut loose with another element.

I forgot that Raz just flat-out says that Vison sounds like Ford.

Yeah, that is transparently Jack Black. They were really open with the fact that Jack Black was in the gameeven had him sing in a trailer from a couple of years ago. Trivia: Jack Black is a huge fan of the first game. He actually agreed to do Brutal Legend in part to get his foot in the door because he knew that they were hoping to do a Psychonauts 2 eventually.

Yeah, this world is a hell of a trip.

And yes, this world is just... The set pieces and the colors and the music and... I can't word. I cannot put everything amazing about this level into words. If Black Velvetopia was the best world in the original, this is the best world in the sequel.

Raz can do mic checks. Almost like he's a... Roadie.

Note how the censors have color pallets altered to fit the vision shrine.

"How 'bout the power to slow a fan... from several feet away... with TIME BUBBLES! That's chronokinesis, Raz!"

Oh no, slowed perception wouldn't make sense becuase he can slow things in the real world without a person having to be in the area of effect: He's actually manipulating the fabric of space-time to generate a localized time dilation effect. And Psi-King just gave this power to a ten-year-old boy.

This is some reality-bending levels of psychic power here. Like, I mentioned how Ford seemed to warp reality a bit with his powers last time and wondered if Raz would get that strong someday, but this... He kind of already is.

Honestly the fact that Raz can do this after seeing Psi-King do it once, after learning it was posisble, gives a clear indicator of just how powerful Raz is. What is he going to be like in ten years when he's fully trained, full-grown, and has significantly more experience under his belt? I mean, Psi-King doing it in his own mind took what amounted to meditating on the nature of the perception of time as an illusion for 20 years. And Raz just fricking did it.

That's general advice for surviving a long stay in prison. Kick the ass of the biggest toughest son of a bitch there and nobody who got there before you will pick a fight with you. Not sure about the exact quote origin.

...I hate myself for not making the "all the eyes" connection until you did.

And you made the prison connection.

And you also figured out what was in the spoiler.

You gotta come back for the memory. Need the last power to get it.

Raz isn't wrong to make that claim is the messed up part. He is manipulating one of the fundamental concepts of reality. I keep saying it, but if this was X-Men Raz would totally be an Omega Level Mutant. Maybe even a Beyond Omega.*Spoiler: Boring Explanation*
Show

Omega Level means that you have 1 power that is without intrinsic limitsStorm, for example, has Atmokinsis, the ability to manipulate the weather, or a handful of smaller powers that add up to the sameIce Man has Negative Thermokinsis(generate coldness), Cryokinesis(control of ice and snow), and Hydrokinesis(manipulate all forms of liquid and gaseous moisture) and while he can use them all individually to an absurd degree hes' at his strongest when he uses all of them together and the combination of them is virtually limitless. an Omega may or may not have additional supplemental powers, but they will never be as strong as their primary powers: Jean is a powerful telekinetic, but her TK will eventually plateau while her Telepathy will just keep getting stronger and/or gaining new plications.

Beyond Omega is seems to be "multiple powers at Limitless Potential or a SIngle Power that's so powerful and versatile by default that it might as well be several powers." Franklin Richards is primarily known for his ability to create realitypocket dimensions, bubbles where the laws of physics are what he wants them to be, or even full-fledged universesbut he also has like a dozen different kinds of telepathy, completly psychokinetic control of all matter and energy on every level from cosmic to subatomic, a separate ability to manipulate quantum mechanics and, by extension, matter and energy at the quantum level, energy blasts, the ability to boost his physical attributes with cosmic power, clairvoyance, precognition, and control over Gravity, Electromagnetism, and both Strong and Weak Nuclear Force on a cosmic scale. Franklin is basically Omnipotent and he knows it. He identifies as a God and based on All-Father Thor's comments in _Empyre_ he is right to do so.

Raz is nowhere near that strong now... But he's only been at this for like, three days.


And this time you can actually fight the panic attack by slowing it down... The same way that the most effective way to deal with a real panic attack is to force yourself to calm down and think through what' giving you that burst of anxiety.

And yes, Panic Attacks are the worst when you have other stuff to focus on that needs your attention. As someone who used to have occasional panic attacks, I can assure you: *That is realistic.* The metaphors in this game are on fricking point.

"You can't stop time." _Yet._

Notice how the speakers go bebumpitybump in time with the background track.

...I hope your mom's okay. You always know it's bad when the first thing they say is not to worry.

...I'm sorry but I started laughing in a nervous awkward way.

Notice that the audience all looks like Nick: The Audience is a metaphor for the input of sensory information that the Psi-King is getting from Nick's body. They're not satisfied by Vision's performance because the band is, obviously, a metaphor for Psi-King's ability to process sensory information and Vision is only one sense. Psi-King can properly see again, but his other senses are still out of whack.

Knight, it's not that kind of band, but I like your style.

For the record, you were back where you started, not much to explore.

Oh, it actually explains what I thought I was so clever figuring out. And I think you were supposed to trigger that earlier. I wasn't actually aware that this was a thing that happened.

So without spoilers, you're gonna want to come back to the concession area in the post-game. I've heard interesting things, but to explain them would be to spoil.

*The following is based on historical trivia, research, and anecdotes, not personal experience. Rater202 does not condone the use of illicit drugs.*
While "high" is commonly used nowadays to refer to the effects of any drug, it was originally coined for use of things like Marijuana-a lifter or LSD-a hallucinogen. Cocaine is a stimulant. Different_ kind_ of high.

In a Woodstock-inspired context like this, "high" would be referring to weed or acid. In the sixties through the eighties, cocaine was mostly used by wealthy businessmen, mainstream celebrities, and inner-city gangs. A music festival like this would mostly be hippies. Different demographic. The lines are just lines.

So I said that there might be more gross? Yeah. This is it. There's one thing after, maybe two, but this is the last major thing.

Yeah. _Those_ are the drugs.

And note that, once again, the censors are recolored.

I'm pretty sure one of those is a bass.

Bit of trivia: If you did Dr. Touch and Audie O first, you could have had an optional conversation where Raz points out the... Unfortunate implications in Dr. Touch's name, and Dr. Touch brings up a bunch of alternate stage names he considered that are... _All just so much worse._ He just does not get it.

Psi-King just flat out says it and it goes right above Raz's head.

I mean, the only members of the Psychic Six left are Bob and Helmut. Audie O has to be one of them...

Note: Touch and sound are both dependent in part on pressure and vibration... And they use the two instruments that vibrate by applying pressure to them.

Audie O in particular is the drummer, and a drummer/drum section is the backbone of any good musical performance: They set the rhythm. This tells you how Psi-King sees whoever it is that Audie O is based on.

And hear... This. I love this song. Hearing Jack Black, who is clearly having a blast, sing a Psychodelic Rock-Opera style Ballad about the Transcendental Euphoria that comes from being able to properly touch, hear, state, smell, and see for the first time in forever... The freedom that comes from that, especially after being imprisoned for so long...

It's so good! There's an extended cut on the soundtrack, plays during the credits. I can listen to that and... It makes me happy. There's no other way to put it.

And of course, this is the song that they used in the trailer a few years ago. Clearly a different recording of it though. A the time, everyone who listened to it thought that "at the bottom of a lake of frozen feeling" was a metaphor for being stuck in a jar... No, he was literally frozen alive at the bottom of a lake.

Helmut tried to reach out to appeal to the bonds of friendship and the remaining humanity within Lucy... That honestly feels you the kind of person he is. This man is not a fighter. He is a performer, an artist. A sensitive soul who wears his heart on his sleeve.

Remember how he said that your perception of time mattered more than literal when you're cut off from perception? Yeah, kind of gets dark when he says he feels like he was abandoned for a thousand years.

And note how Helmut's memories rotate on a wheel... Like when you, the player, are viewing the contents of a memory vault. What we're seeing now, it's probably what Raz sees.

And this bad memory is the _easiest_ boss in the game. She's basically an overgrown panic attack... But you've already addressed the cause of the panic, so she's effectively powerless, as represented by Helmet and his representation of the rest of the Psychic Six holding her frozen with their Time Bubbles... A power that didn't exist during the "first draft" of this fight, mind you. This is good symbolism.

I think it's funny that they somehow got a Thinkerprint of Helmut despite this building being opened after his "death" and that his credentials are still good despite being officially dead.

I don't think you can miss anything except for story-locked conversationslike, there's an optional conversation with Lilly that you can have after finding Nick's empty body but before going to the casino mission that you missed out on. (On the other hand, you've hit two conversations with her that I don't think most people have found, based on what I've seen.)

You know this by now, but all you're really doing is moving to the next Hub. You'll get access to the main hub back in the post-game, but you've got a couple more minds to go yet.

Helmut and Bob's relationship is just all kinds of cute and wholesome, but more on that later.

Oh, and before I forget: Note that Helmut's mindscape has no doubts and only a small handful of regrets. Helmut is proud and confident. He's... Honestly remarkably traumatized, all things considered, too. Most of his problems come from the sensory deprivation and the overload that comes when it ends. You fix that and then help him sort through his memories and then... That's it.

Cruller's Correspondance... Yeah, does not screw around.

Speaking of screws, it seems Ford has some loose.

Note that you don't seem to need to put the missing letters on the typewriter in the correct spaces.

So note the implication that Lucy carried herself across the ocean with her Hydrokinesis.

A letter bomb is a small explosive hidden in an envelope and sent through the mail with the intent that it goes off when the letter is opened, hopefully killing or injuring the person the letter was addressed to.

Technically, the bomb in the game is a _parcel_ bomb, a similar but related concept.

Yeah, Gzar Theodore was kind of an ass.

...Note how the subtitles say "young" Gristol.

And this is where the _really_ dark comes in.

Note: that's a giant comb and tones play as the teeth get caught on gravestones... the cemetery is a giant, macabre music box.

Note how Ford's fragments here are all... Self Disposing? The implication to me seems that Ford has had some... suicidal ideation relating to what it is that he did that Raz is about to see.

Yes! Raz's Eyes on the cover art being the same as the eyes "watching" Laboto from the postersimplied to be Maligulais what I was referring to... And I honestly only noticed during your first stream.

I think that if you're trapped in a coffin and it doesn't feel crowded, or at least claustrophobic, then they didn't do it right.

Now this raises a question: On Raz's first night at the camp, Ford contacted Raz in his dreams. Did Ford, consciously or subconsciously, recognize Razputin as a relative of Lucy? Is that why he took an interest?

Incidentally, "broaden our consciousness" was a reason given by members of the counter culture to experiment with LSD and other drugs. Between that and the Psi-King mentioning how his bandmates used to love to "get high" out in the campground that... Looks a lot like the Questionable Area...

"I'm not gonna lie to you Razputin, we did a _lot_ of LSD out here."

It's been 20 years Nona. That chewing tobacco probably isn't any good anymore. Not that it was any good in the first place.

"There's no such thing as magic, this is science," says the potential reality warper to the little boy who just learned how to alter the fabric of space-time by altering his subjective perception of time.

So this basically confirms the long-running fan-theory: The Hand of the Golochio is Raz's own psychic powers reacting to hydrophobia he developed as a reaction to his father's stories about the curse. He's such a powerful hydrokinetic that he can _literally_ do it subconsciously

So, a bit of stuff that I don't think ever properly gets explained to you directly(there's a post-game conversation that kind of puts the pieces together but...): If you recall, back when you first went into Ford's mind and you travel across the lake, we hear a flashback of Otto convincing Ford to bring Lucretia in and mentioning that Lucretia's husband back in Grulovia had died and she wanted to get away: Mux was hr married name: Her maiden name was Golochio. As was that of her sister, Raz's actual biological grandmother.

So, Raz and probably Agustus inherited the Golochio's vast psychic powers and affinity for hydrokinesis. This would explain the comments about Raz's having trouble with Pyrokinesis and why Agustus can barely do it at all despite the feats of power he showed at the end of the first game: They're using the opposite of their specialty element.

And when you take the comments in this gameabout the rivalry between psychics and fortune-tellersand the supplemental information from the first game about the rivalry between the Golochios and the Aquatos... it adds an extra hint of tragedy to it all: Augustus is the product of old rivals burying the hatchet and he doesn't even know it. Worse, becuase of Lucretia's and his own attempt and connecting incomplete information to rationalize their fear of water, he spent his whole life hating and fearing half of his ancestors for "cursing" his family.

It's getting _really_ hard not to explain what Maligula actually is in Lucy's mind, but I think it's still a spoiler.

So something to note: Ford keeps mentioning that he/they were all young back when this was going on... But this was explicitly 20 years ago. If we assume that "young" is "mid-20s to mid-30s" than...

Then the psychic seven are all in their 40s and 50s.

Compton basically didn't age in that time: They could have said that he was Sam and Dogen's father instead of grandfather and that would be believable. Otto has some extra wrinkles and his hair has gone grey but otherwise looks the same now as he did in his youth.

Ford and especially Lucy aged like _milk._ I can only assume that being that extensively reprogrammed/having your mind shattered caused an absolutely _ridiculous_ amount of stress to explain why they look so much older than they are. My God.

Psychic vines and psychic bees, so it'll take a bit more than fire to fix that.

Cassie hasn't aged as gracefully as Otto or Compton... But she's also spent the last 20 years living as a mad forest witch and she _still_ for the most part looks to be in good health in comparison to how Ford is well over the hill and Lucy looks to be twice her actual age while also being a third of her original height. This just sort of reinforces the idea that whatever the Astralath does when it screws with your mind to that extent causes enough stress to put you through hell.

So does Raz just have a copy of Mindswarm on his person at all times? Becuase I don't recall him getting a copy on screen.

I like that Cassie is actually enthusiastic about someone giving her a psychic checkup. Everyone else the consent is more implied or else they don't seem to understand what's going on but Cassie knows what you're talking about and gives a clear "yes."

And thus, why Paper Imp Zodi is an appropriate avatar for this game as I mentioned previously.

So if you recall, Mindswarm was mentioned to be about multitasking, compartmentalizing, and efficient use of your brain's processing power. Cassie overdid it. She doesn't quite have DiD, but the various "personas" she's taken over the years are at war within her mindscape.

Hmmm, you encounter enablers shortly after a long conversation with someone who gave weak justifications for toxic behaviors...

So this entire section is very Jungian... And the last power Raz gets in the game, is... Essentially, a Persona.

His Persona is literally GIR.

"I am thou and tho art I and I sawed a squirrel."

Like, seriously, people make the expected JoJokes about Raz getting time-stop powers and a projected avatar in this game, but the Archetype isn't a Stand, it's a Persona. I mean, I know that Personas were inspired in part by Stands particularly the tarot motif, but in practice, they're rather distinct. Little Paper GIR doesn't fight on Raz's behalf or bestow upon him special powers, it uses its own abilities to support him when he needs support.

So I feel vaguely called out by Muscle Man's comments about being free of pain by being free of flesh.

Raz seems to be decently good at geometry. He recognizes a formula... Though other things seem beyond him.

The archetype is more useful if you upgrade it. There's also a pin that make it do aoe damage on destruction

I have conflicting feelings about the dragon. On the one hand, dragon. On the other? Seriously? Pineapple?

You'll note that Cassie is pretty clearly Asian coded but has a western name derived from Greek Mythology. and what we see of her backstory support the idea that she was forced to work in an eastern or eastern analog country's criminal underbelly until she wrote her book and used the profits to escape. Some fans have speculated that Cassie O'Pia is a nome de plume that she wrote the book under but then later adopted as her "real name" as an extension of the "Jungian Archetypes and adopted Personas" thing she has going on.

Not sure how I feel about that theory, personally.

Obviously what happened is that Lance kidnapped a baby bt the baby was like a born psychopath or something, so he sold her to the pretzelmeister who raised her as his own until she murdered him under the justification that he secretly wanted to be a pretzel.

Not sure how you get three volumes out of that, though.

Raz gonna get spam mail in his brain.

And Cassie got screwed over by crooked cops.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Psychonauts Stream reactions.


Fair fair, I was just in a weirdly off mood at the start, due to the technical difficulties.

Well keep in mind also, Lilly currently has a cold! This game takes place (now that some time has passed) like a day after Rhombus of Ruin... which took place about five seconds after Psychonauts 1, where one of the plot points was "she's too stuffed up to get her brain out with the sneezing powder". Lilly's legitimately just under the weather.

"Oh god that Easter Egg" is never a good sign, even if I was unable to get it working...

Yeah, I think that's kind of a running theme of the game. Everyone's kind of a mess, but also that that's completely okay.

Not only is it weird given that comment our Dad says, I'm also PRETTY sure you do take fall damage if you fall from a high enough height in the first game, not just from pits!

You know now that you bring it up I wouldn't mind having Seras's figure... or her cannon. Bitches love cannons and that's me, I'm bitches!

Goat's are fairly tough creatures by nature so I don't know if their meat would be all that tender. Bacon is made from strips of the back-fat if I recall and goat's got them real worked, strong legs.

Jack Black has such a good energy to him that he always brings to a production and this game is no different. I'm glad he got to be here even if the way he did it (Brutal Legend) is genuinely quite terrible.

RE my mother; my mom is the sort of person to say "don't worry" because she still thinks I expect her to make the food she said she's make for me a year ago. That's why I didn't immediately mute the mic and let it go for a bit, and why I also started laughing nervously. I sorta just expected it to be something stupid like usual when she phones me.

Oh, what's this? Dr Touch is known for being a little handsy, and his name is obviously pretty suspect already, and he keeps on coming up with worse names, and he's clearly based on Otto? Gee I wonder why I think he's evil  :Small Tongue: .

Yeah the subtitles saying "Young" Gristol makes it very clear that he's gonna show up at some point and I'm not too enthused about that. It's really unfortunate when subtitles accidentally spoil things!

Speaking from experience; sound mind, sound body, sound soul. The mental damage the astrolathe did to Ford and Lucy means that they were just incapable of taking care of themselves- and both of them had severe damage to their souls even before that. You don't drown an entire country and escape unscathed. Also it is still spoilers "what is Maligula" to the point that "what is Maligula?" is itself a spoiler because it's pretty unambigious what she is currently; Lucy cracked because of the killing and made this side of her to cope. Or worse, this has always been her and Lucy was the mask. The implication that Maligula "is something" is itself a spoiler, though it's got me thinking something fierce now that I know it is a possibility...

----------


## Rater202

Lilly comments that her cold was clearing up around the time you finally get to her in person... Or is it when you, Sasha, and Milla break her restraints? Regardless, she explicitly says that she's starting to feel less phlegmy.

Some observations of the Die-Brarian: She claims to be the real Cassie OPiea, but her attempts to become three-dimensional fall-flat: She's still transparently made of paper, she's just expanded and folded... She's trying and failing to become three-dimensional.

You might have noticed, also, that the Lucktopus and the Gluttonous Goats, the other two "main bosses" in the game gave you what you needed to defeat them but the Die-Brarian does not. that's becuase as the embodiments of respectively a gambling addiction and persecution complex, they are _self-destructive thoughts._

Librarian Cassie isn't inherently self-destructive, she's a good impulse going much too far... And being enabled to do so by circumstances. Literally one of the first things that happens when you fight her is she asks an Enablerwho are introduced as supporting negative ideasfor honest feedback, which is horribly misguided at best. She literally calls it an impartial critic when... No, it's not. Objectively. She means well but is misguided and is getting bad feedback.

You've got three more minds and then the final boss for storyline stuff so you'll probably complete the main story next time. There are some post-game sidequests, but...

Speaking of next time: The game is pretty linear from here: The storyline of the next mind is likewise rather linear, but the "main hub" of the mental world is pretty open and if you don't explore it you'll miss some interesting things that provide context to the character's story. Nothing Mandatory, but...

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Psychonauts 2 stream 3:*
If I, the real Raz was controlling this, I'd tell her the truth that he is just pretending, but I get joy out of attempting to make such chaos happen.

personally, I'd go with "I say that to my dad every day" because thats what I'd say just for the dark comedy of it. this game is all about that sort of thing, I would just embrace it.

"I need to bring an animal to my mentor" in fairness, sounds a little creepy. because animal sounds a little clinical and it lacks the warm connotations of "pet", implying that its not for anything heartfelt.

"oh please I'm only one she doesn't need to worry about"- between like three kids, two of them teens with issues and one of them a ten year old in the business of a psychic secret agent, this kid ain't wrong.

Beaver. Bevver. Baffer. Baefah. Beaphur. Bavva. Beevaur. Boivair. Buffer. Before. 

Honestly we're probably doing that child a favor. listening to only one pirate song on a radio forever is probably cursed in this world or something, and there is a lot better music out there.

Donatella In a Nutshell: I love you Razputin, you traitorous psychic child who is a disgrace to the family and all that we do.  :Small Smile:  I'm here to support your vile witchcraft. Just remember that if you feel its too hard, its okay to give up!

welcome to drug trip: the mind.

no Raz your being too humble, your clearly the god of all time and space and all should bow before you.

yeah, if a deceased brain can get in, then Lucy probably could to, or some other "dead" person.

"Anti-war protest threaten peace"- a more ironic or oxymoronic sentiment has never been spoken.

Eh, that bee is not as cute as Vi.

but yeah these were some fun minds. I feel like I have nothing to say even though I'm interested, because Rater and Zodi cover it all, and I dare not speculate as the last time I did that I was incredibly accurate about solving things and might spoil by guessing it.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (6)*
Show




> Mamamajora! Majora's Mask!
> *
> Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [6] Odolwa*
> 
> *Video Length: 24:03*
> 
> The back half of Woodfall Temple, wherein we actually see some of those "Zelda expert mode" puzzles I mentioned last time, face off against a rude frog, and then face one of the stranger bosses in the series; Odolwa! The original game's version of this fight honestly feels like a mess, where it is never really clear what you're supposed to do. This version makes it far clearer, as well as adds in some extras to make it work even better... at the potential consequence of making it TOO telegraphed? I know some people dislike it, but as the first boss of the game it should be a little reasonable.
> 
> Also, and this is just me, but one of the cool things about Majora's Mask IS the fact that each boss has different ways to fight it. Each boss has a way for regular ole Hylian Link to take it down, and a way for his transformed state to take it down... and in the original, it was very unclear to just not being possible how you were supposed to do it with Deku Link! So making that clearer is GOOD, in my opinion, even if they may have made it took clear? 
> ...





I was hoping you'd get those red rupees.  :D  

Yeah, they moved the stray fairy under the pushy block to above it in the beehive.  An unneeded choice but its fine i guess.

Honestly, I didn't care for the boss changes, especially this boss, but a future boss i didn't mind as much.  Odolwa is a cool boss with so many neat moves, love this warrior dude.  The fight now is kinda trivialized.  The bombs were for attracting his insect minions, kinda like the moths are attracted to flame.  Anywho, GG!

For the sake of sanity, the way i'll be tracking rupees with time travel shenanigan's is:  
A: If there's a permanent visible rupee, and you don't get it, it is missed.  If you go back in time and get it next time around, I'll try to make sure I subtract them from your score.  
B: Rupees that fade are missed, and they never can be subtracted.  
C: Lost rupees are always lost - so for example, overflow and lost to the void when you go back in time, etc.



*EPISODE 6 KILL TALLY!*

Gekko - 1
Snapper - 1
Bubble - 3
Dragonfly - 2
Big Skulltula - 3
Odolwa - 1
Insect Minion - 5

Style Points - 0
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 21
Lost Rupees - 17



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 6_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Bubble - 5
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 7
Dinolfos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Leever - 1
Octo, Big - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 5
Wolfos - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 5_
Baba, Deku - 13

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 103

*1st Place* - Black Boe, at 21!
*2nd Place* - Deku Baba, at 13!
*3rd Place*  - Big Skulltula, at 8!

*Total Style Points* - 3

*Total Missed Rupees* - 59
*Total Lost Rupees* - 28






> So, this key-guarding miniboss. Every key-guarding miniboss is frog-based and turns into a 'normal' frog after being defeated. However...
> 
> *Spoiler: No really, this is an actual spoiler for a quest chain later!*
> Show
> 
> Finding a specific mask will let you talk to the frogs. Here's the kicker: You have to talk to all five frogs, four of which are these key minibosses. Which are generally toward the END of each of the four dungeons. So to complete this quest, you have to run all four dungeons in the same three-day period at least far enough to talk to said frog while equipped with said mask before going to the next. This is... annoying, more than anything, as by the time you get into the fourth dungeon, the first few are pretty trivial, it's just a matter of slogging through the dungeons to get there. 
> 
> Basically, I just ended up devoting an entire three-day cycle to this one quest.


Actually, only two of the mini bosses are frogs.  So only 2 out of the 5 in that description are accurate.

----------


## Rater202

So as of this tream, Raz's psychic education consists of

Basic Braining with Oleander: Pretty standard all things considered, everybody gets this, but Raz is apparently the first person ever to actually get to the end of the course.

Private one on one Psi-Blast Training and exploratory exercises with Sasha. He's not the only one to get this, but he's the only one that wasn't scared off by the offer of combat training.

Levitation training with Milla: Again, pretty standard.

And... Well, the selling point of Whispering Rock is a chance to be trained by elite agents of the Psychonauts. Oleander and Milla's lessons are standard, everyone gets those, but the people teaching it aren't.

All throughout this period, Raz is being mentored by Ford Cruller, founder of the PSychonauts, who takes a special interest in Raz and teaches him how to use three different psi-powers.

He gets into the psychonauts intern program, which is implied to be rather exclusive, and learns the explicitly rather advanced mental connection ability from Hollis...

And then learns Time Bubble from Helmut Fullbear and Mental Projection from Cassi O'pia.

Meaning that Raz has been, officially, mentored by the entire "current" generation of the elite of the Psychonauts *and* half of the Psychic Six.

Raz's dream is to be a psychonaut and he's _basically_ winning at life. He has the power, the talent, and the education to... He's gonna be running the Motherlobe when he grows up.*Spoiler: Stuff that's probably spoilers*
Show

and if there's gonna be DLC or a Psychonauts 3 with new psi-powers, I'll eat my foot if it doesn't involve Nona teaching Raz how to control his hydrokinesis more actively.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

> Zeldaaaar
> *
> Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [7] Butler Race*
> 
> *Video Length: 24:20*
> 
> With Woodfall done and princess successfully bottled, it is time to do some of the stuff we unlock for doing that! The first, and what takes up most of this video to be frank, is the Butler Race with the Deku Butler, a rather tricky little timed obstacle course. If you remember the Dampe races in Ocarina of Time, this is on those levels... though not AS bad, since while it IS timed, you don't have a time to beat. You just need to clear it at all. Please correct me if that's wrong it has been awhile. Finishing the race gets you the Mask of Scents, a snorty little pig face that lets us find mushrooms, and also the shoe dropping of "you remind me of my son", connecting the disfigured and crying deku-like tree in the intro of the game to our mask very concretely. That's pretty sad!
> 
> At least we do save the monkey, which is nice. We did also save the swamp too. It really speaks to how much evil the Skull Kid is spreading around that our happy ending to this part of the story is "things are back to normal". Things haven't even improved, we just set things back to square one- arguably not even that since the Butler's son is still dead. It's a lot to think about, and the first real moment you should realize Majora's Mask is not the sort of game Ocarina was, where the things you do are actively improving things.
> ...


Yey wallet!  That's gonna help keeping you from losing those extra rupees! 

Observation - now that you've healed woodfall, none of the enemies are around in the platforms around it - mad deku scrubs, hiploops, etc.

Huzzah, you've reclaimed some rupees from an earlier episode!

Observation - with the butler race, you can see the path you need to take once you complete a section, so if you fail a section, you can retrace earlier sections easier which is a neat thing! 

OOOOF, that's a lot of missed rupees - 48 just from the butler race.   :Small Sigh: 

One thing I didn't mention last time you were in the Wood's of Mystery is that the order that you go through the maze changes each day, but its always the same pattern on that designated day.  So you could potentially memorize the order from one cycle to the next, but depending on when a player encounters it, they might think its just always random instead since it changes each day.

The reason why the pig mask can detect mushrooms is because pigs are known to sniff out mushrooms, so they went with that, lmao.



*EPISODE 7 KILL TALLY!*

Deku Baba - 1
Mini Baba - 1

Style Points - 0
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 38 (thanks to reclaiming 10 missed in episode 4, otherwise it'd be 48)
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 7_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Bubble - 5
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 7
Dinolfos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Leever - 1
Octo, Big - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 5
Wolfos - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 6_
Baba, Deku - 14

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 105

*1st Place* - Black Boe, at 21!
*2nd Place* - Deku Baba, at 14!
*3rd Place*  - Big Skulltula, at 8!

*Total Style Points* - 3

*Total Missed Rupees* - 97
*Total Lost Rupees* - 28

----------


## LaZodiac

> Honestly, I didn't care for the boss changes, especially this boss, but a future boss i didn't mind as much.  Odolwa is a cool boss with so many neat moves, love this warrior dude.  The fight now is kinda trivialized.  The bombs were for attracting his insect minions, kinda like the moths are attracted to flame.  Anywho, GG!
> 
> For the sake of sanity, the way i'll be tracking rupees with time travel shenanigan's is:  
> A: If there's a permanent visible rupee, and you don't get it, it is missed.  If you go back in time and get it next time around, I'll try to make sure I subtract them from your score.  
> B: Rupees that fade are missed, and they never can be subtracted.  
> C: Lost rupees are always lost - so for example, overflow and lost to the void when you go back in time, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's fair, on both points.




> OOOOF, that's a lot of missed rupees - 48 just from the butler race.  
> 
> One thing I didn't mention last time you were in the Wood's of Mystery is that the order that you go through the maze changes each day, but its always the same pattern on that designated day.  So you could potentially memorize the order from one cycle to the next, but depending on when a player encounters it, they might think its just always random instead since it changes each day.
> 
> The reason why the pig mask can detect mushrooms is because pigs are known to sniff out mushrooms, so they went with that, lmao.


Oh god that hurts so much.

That I did not know!

That I DID know!

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (8)*
Show




> Insert bow and arrow pun here.
> 
> *Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [8] Perfect Score*
> 
> *Video Length: 24:32*
> 
> In this episode, we continue some post Woodfall clean up- mainly helping Koume and Kotake out once more so we can gain access to her swampland archery contest, which nets us a nice and shiny empty bottle! If I recall this is basically the only thing the Mask of Scents is used for. After that, we head to the Swamp Shooting Gallery, blasting through waves of Mad Scrubs, Wolfos, and those weird bird things I forget the name of to get a piece of heart AND a quiver upgrade. After that we return to Clock Town to do THEIR local shooting gallery, getting another piece of heart and our final quiver upgrade, which is quite vital. 
> 
> You see, the bow and arrow is one of the most important tools in Majora's Mask. We'll get more into it later, but the bow is used constantly throughout the game, more so than even Ocarina did. Having the maximum amount of arrows straight away will help us out immensely, not least of which because a powerful ranged weapon is just good to have on hand.
> ...





This episode looks like its going to be a busy one!  Let's get to it!  *cracks fingers*

You giving her the mushroom will unlock her later be able to make blue potions, but you'll need to do it again on other cycles.  Anyway, you doubled the amount needed for the swamp witch shooting gallery and then some, I'm giving you +1 style point.  What can I say?  I'm a sucker for archery!

Fishing is new, and you don't get heart pieces or masks from it, BUT there is a collection of fish, and ****ing hilarious end fish that I'd love for you to get.  If you get all the fish, you'll definitely get a style point from me for it.  (but i understand if you don't want to.)

Perfect on first try for swamp shooting gallery?  Twice in a row?  Have another +1 Style Point!  The heart piece you have to have perfect plus get a good time to get the heart piece.  You blew it out of the water.

Perfect on first try for clocktown shooting gallery?  Twice in a row?  This sounds familiar!  Have another +1 Style Point!  

Okay, Zodi, you're making up for lost time....Like, you dunked the same basket twice, AND finished the basket bomb game with 0.41 seconds left...  I have to give you an unprecedented FOURTH style point.  You also just barely made it into the Honey & Darling shop before they closed, nice work.  

We are slowly accumulating masks, and I am here for it.  Glances at the kill count....HOLY...um....so...I think we might have a record?  I might have to go back an check...  A WHOPPING 180 kills today.  (that's more than you currently had from episodes 1  - 7)  Yeah, I looked back and you knocked the record out of the park...I know we've already a lot of these today, but one more for all the killing!  +1 style point!



*EPISODE 8 KILL TALLY!*

Mad Deku Scrub - 44
Guay - 24
Wolfos - 12
Red Octorok - 100

Style Points - 5
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 0 (weeeee!)
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 8_)
*Spoiler*
Show

Bad Bat - 7
Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Bubble - 5
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 51
Dinolfos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Guay - 24
Leever - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 5
Wolfos - 13

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 6_
Baba, Deku - 14

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8

*Octoroks*
Octoroks, Red - 100
Octos, Big - 1

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 2

*Total Things Dead* - 285

*1st Place* - Red Octorok, at 100!
*2nd Place* - Mad Deku Scrubs, at 51!
*3rd Place*  - Guay, at 24!

*Total Style Points* - 8

*Total Missed Rupees* - 97
*Total Lost Rupees* - 28

----------


## Rater202

Horrifying thought.

All of Ford Cruller's personalities in this game seem innocuous but are representative of different points in his relationship with Lucy...

What are his _other_ personalities representative of? The Park Ranger, the Quartermaster, and so on...

The Admiral in the first game can even be seen administering affection to one particular canoe that has apparently been damaged by "psychic fish" and saying how he won't let anyone hurt "her" again, which if you trigger that can cause Raz to ask if he's in love with the canoe and...

Yeah. That probably means something.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I mean its possible they didn't have that figured out by then. like the problem with Ford Cruller is that a lot of what he does is seemingly random and played for comedic effect, especially in the first game. its only when we get into his mind where things like sorting the mail, being a barber or cleaning bowling shoes has any relation or association to anything he is going through because they serve as metaphors for it. from the outside he is just this broken psychonaut doing odd jobs and probably using the Archetype power on some external scale thought unimaginable by Cassie. all those Fords could be just be really sophisticated archetypes refined by him being one of the most powerful and experienced psychonauts to ever exist. thus its hard to say whether they are all compartments of him or that some are just archetype creations from him.

----------


## LaZodiac

> This episode looks like its going to be a busy one!  Let's get to it!  *cracks fingers*
> 
> You giving her the mushroom will unlock her later be able to make blue potions, but you'll need to do it again on other cycles.  Anyway, you doubled the amount needed for the swamp witch shooting gallery and then some, I'm giving you +1 style point.  What can I say?  I'm a sucker for archery!
> 
> Fishing is new, and you don't get heart pieces or masks from it, BUT there is a collection of fish, and ****ing hilarious end fish that I'd love for you to get.  If you get all the fish, you'll definitely get a style point from me for it.  (but i understand if you don't want to.)
> 
> Perfect on first try for swamp shooting gallery?  Twice in a row?  Have another +1 Style Point!  The heart piece you have to have perfect plus get a good time to get the heart piece.  You blew it out of the water.
> 
> Perfect on first try for clocktown shooting gallery?  Twice in a row?  This sounds familiar!  Have another +1 Style Point!  
> ...


Hell yeah, super stylish! And I may do the fishing, if it is reasonable to do. I'll at least give it a look at some point.

Not gonna lie, all this talk of me shattering records has me playing the Mario Party "NEW RECOOORD" sound in my brain on loop. It's free serotonin!




> Horrifying thought.
> 
> All of Ford Cruller's personalities in this game seem innocuous but are representative of different points in his relationship with Lucy...
> 
> What are his _other_ personalities representative of? The Park Ranger, the Quartermaster, and so on...
> 
> The Admiral in the first game can even be seen administering affection to one particular canoe that has apparently been damaged by "psychic fish" and saying how he won't let anyone hurt "her" again, which if you trigger that can cause Raz to ask if he's in love with the canoe and...
> 
> Yeah. That probably means something.


It's always going to be hard to tell what is and isn't planned- because we know from the first game that the Golachio family was a family of fortune tellers and mystics in the same circus that the Aquatos were on, since we can see their advertisement posters in the Meat Circus, and we know from promotional material all the way back then that they were at least in the lore book as "the family what cursed Raz's" but, since there is such a vast gap between then and now, it really is quite impossible to know just what was known back then, what they claim was known back then but really wasn't, and what was head canon to the developers but never actually expressed in or out of universe.

Like how (don't discuss it don't discuss it don't discuss it) George Lucas has gone back and tried to write over the past of the original films to make them look a lot better connected then they were.




> I mean its possible they didn't have that figured out by then. like the problem with Ford Cruller is that a lot of what he does is seemingly random and played for comedic effect, especially in the first game. its only when we get into his mind where things like sorting the mail, being a barber or cleaning bowling shoes has any relation or association to anything he is going through because they serve as metaphors for it. from the outside he is just this broken psychonaut doing odd jobs and probably using the Archetype power on some external scale thought unimaginable by Cassie. all those Fords could be just be really sophisticated archetypes refined by him being one of the most powerful and experienced psychonauts to ever exist. thus its hard to say whether they are all compartments of him or that some are just archetype creations from him.


Oh absolutely. I think it is less swarm-minded thinking that's got Ford like this and more "instead of facing his trouble he literally broke his mind with the astrolathe to avoid having to face any of it" and this is just how the trauma is leaking out.

----------


## Rater202

So another observation: All of the psychic six you've encountered so far were receptive to having someone help them work through their baggage, to various degrees.

They all live either at or in walking distance of the largest concentration of psychics in the world, whose mission statement includes "help people work through their baggage."

You'd uh... You'd think they'd have gotten help with that by now.

And, in the first game if you try to use the Psychoportal on ord he'll say that better psychics than Raz have been driven insane by his fractured mind... But it's pretty straight forward here.

...The Psychonauts like, might be bad at that part of their job?

----------


## DataNinja

> So another observation: All of the psychic six you've encountered so far were receptive to having someone help them work through their baggage, to various degrees.
> 
> They all live either at or in walking distance of the largest concentration of psychics in the world, whose mission statement includes "help people work through their baggage."
> 
> You'd uh... You'd think they'd have gotten help with that by now.
> 
> And, in the first game if you try to use the Psychoportal on ord he'll say that better psychics than Raz have been driven insane by his fractured mind... But it's pretty straight forward here.
> 
> ...The Psychonauts like, might be bad at that part of their job?


I mean, Ford was probably lying there, given that he seemed to not _want_ to be put back together. Given all of his actions. And, frankly, it seemed like the Six rather eschewed everything after their failure, and the people who were underneath them were likely too in awe of them or whatever to try and push the matter.

Alternatively, things may have been worse earlier on, before they've had some time to help work through things.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I mean....a part of the problem is that the Psychonauts kind lives in a world of jerks, where everyone is just a jerk for no reason other than comedy. like they're recruiting that one kid who is cruel to animals and expecting her to like, respect the minds of PEOPLE? Not a reasonable thing in a sane world. or take the fact that none of the kids give any respect to Raz despite him being basically a child prodigy at this point, at either the camp or at the base. people in the world of psychonauts are just kind of jerks all the time, not exactly a good environment for getting better.

there is also the fact that two of the psychic six are these isolationist people clearly more comfortable talking to bees or animals than people. Cassie and Compton both seem highly telepathic and its modern trope that people who are strongly telepathic can "hear" too many thoughts and experience sensory overload because of it, that telepathy is only a good power in moderation when you can focus it on one mind. this in particular prevents them from receiving help because to get it they'd have to go to among more complex thoughts which seem louder than just animals. 

Helmut, its obvious why he didn't receive help, he nearly died and got put in a tank- funnily enough his brain is actually one of the healthiest of them once it gets over the sensory overload issues, which is Raz inflicted, while coming to terms with the memories is one of the easiest parts in the game it seems like, so it seems if got the chance he would've had the help he needed to move on.

Ford implies his own mind shattering was self-inflicted, so he probably set up defenses to prevent people from fixing him- his condition may have been less bad in the past and his mind stronger than but his defenses only deteriorated with time as his mental state did. Then he went off to live at a psychic camp, so of course he didn't get the help he needed, he was busy being the janitor to brain camp for young psychics. 

Otto Mentalis seems to be a mad scientist kind of deal no matter how good or evil he is-he might get stuck on long projects without really talking to anyone because he is focused on his work that no one else really seems interested in helping out or understanding what he is on about. Thus it is its own form of isolation.

While the sixth member, we haven't seen yet but given that they aren't around, they're probably isolating themselves as well. 

In short, one of them was on brain life support for decades and the other four-five of them are deliberately isolating themselves in their interests rather than deal with people. they just all collectively decided to hide in their little turtle shells as coping mechanisms rather than risk screwing up a mission because they had been mentally compromised. Milla, Hollis and Nein seem more mentally balanced, Oleander just seems to be kept around because its probably better than letting him wander off to screw up something. also the Psychic Six were the ones who did the whole psychic pioneering experimentation stuff that lowered their mental defenses- perhaps their cases took more time to heal because of it, while most psychonauts having learned from their "frontier age" of psychic powers put safer and more reliable methods into practice, which is why you have a bunch of nameless probably more mentally well adjusted psychonaut agents in the motherlobe around, they're just....not important to the plot, so they don't get a name or the ability to participate.

----------


## Rater202

Compton was an active duty Psychonaut. They even have him mentoring an intern.

He spends most of his time in psychoisolation, yes... But he's still on the payroll and he agreed to a wellness check when Raz asked.

So... The simplest explanation is that an organization in part motivated by helping people with psychological issues never asked if Compton would be down to have someone see if there's anything they could do poking around in there.

Unless you want to argue that Raz is just... Better at it than every psychonaut in existence, and to be fair, for all his faults the boy has a great deal of care and empathy for people which seems to be in short supply... In general. But if he was just good at it he woulnd't have made that mistake with Boyd.

----------


## Qwertystop

Or, Compton could have degenerated recently, or have good days and bad days. He's gone into isolation, but if he was able to get assigned an intern maybe he only checked in there a few days ago.

----------


## Rater202

Another observation I forgot to make.

Nona sees az as one of his siblings.

Nona herself was essentially brainwashed into switching places with her dead sister.

Possibly foreshadowing.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Or, Compton could have degenerated recently, or have good days and bad days. He's gone into isolation, but if he was able to get assigned an intern maybe he only checked in there a few days ago.


Yeah, I'd say Compton is actually rather... well adjusted, for lack of a better term. He just has his bad days. His personal trauma we have to help him with is a rather nasty bought of anxiety (which we directly cause by bringing three bees instead of one, which just turned out to be far too loud for him). He is sensitive, fragile even if you'd allow, but he's not broken in the way Ford is.

----------


## LaZodiac

And not a drop to think.

*Zodi Streams: Psychonauts 2 [4] Water Water Everywhere*

*Video Length: 5:50:43*

In this one, we take down Bob's Bottles, dip into Lucy's mind, and put an end to Maligula once and for all!

Psychonauts 2 is such a better game from the original that it's honestly kind of impressive. I'm glad I streamed through it, and glad I got to play it all blind. Genuinely looking forward to whatever they do next... because if this is what Double Fine is capable of doing now, maybe there future games will also be good!

----------


## Rater202

This game is, arguably, a deconstruction of the idea that you should never meet your heroes because they are flawed human beings who will let you down.

In this game, Raz dives right into the very psyches of several of his heroes and sees their flaws and mistakes first hand and... It doesn't really change how he sees them. If anything, getting to know the real them and helping them overcome their own traumas makes him admire them more while reinforcing the idea that everyone makes mistakes, everyone is flawed, and everyone can suffer trauma.

Even with Ford, Raz is justifiably angry, but... He doesn't hate Ford. He honestly seems more concerned about the immediate fallout and is still able to listen to reason with Ford.

Eddie Rigs is who you're thinking of: Incidentally, Raz's reaction to finding Vison's Violin is also a reference to Brutal Legend.

Per that game, a Roadie's job is to stay out of the spotlight, sneak around, clean up, and do whatever it takes to make the band look good. In the rockstar world, it is a sacred duty that can only be undertaken by someone responsible and trustworthy

(So you heard it here, you ever go on tour, respect your roadies.)

This means that Helmut seeing Raz that way means he has a great deal of trust and respect for Raz now.

The other members of the Feast specifically see Raz as himself, in their respective colors and with their respective sense organs exaggerated.

My advice regarding concessions was a post-game thing unrelated to the memory vault.

Note how Helmut was very clearly diving in front of Bob to take a hit for him.

The archetype can attack if it's fully upgraded, but only in direct response to being attacked itself. It's a support power, there to back Raz up. A roadie to a roadie, if you will.

I kind of get the feeling that Ford didn't shatter his mind on purpose. He was trying to erase or suppress his own memories of what he did with Lucy and then he done messed up. In his shattered state, he forgot about Helmut.

Otherwise, you'd think he'd have gotten Helmut taken care of first.

Note that Helmut is clearly the last of the psychic seven to join.

Bob seems to have fallen for Helmut upon seeing him perform for the first time, shortly after they met.

Super Sneezing Powder and smelling slats have different names... But the idea that they have some related properties is compelling.

Counterfeiter and Teacher see you as Archetype, Writer sees you the same way that the whole cassie in the outside world sees you: A fan with her book. which, you know, Raz is.

It's very interesting: Cassie clearly has mixed feelings about the rest of the Psychic Seven... But she still places them above herself in her mindscape.

Otto was Ford's research partner and it was his idea to bring in more people at first. That's pretty much ithe's not without redeeming qualities, when you asked him about Helmut he pretty clearly feels remorse that they couldn't find him and that it was his invention that caused him to be lost to them, but... Yeah.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if ford and Otto were only fines becuase they were roommates in college or something.

Cassie's mental image of Bob seems a bit... scatterbrained, doesn't he?

So... Cassie doesn't really understand how or why Lucy snapped?

So, if you recall Lucy was the first person that Otto and Ford brought in, which means that they were well underway in the hydraulic mining by the time Cassie came in. Presumably, that's why they didn't listen to her.

So that bt regarding the stage act and Lucy's tone talking about it... That's gonna be a theme.

Again, Cassie got there after Lucy. _Maligula_ ruined everything, but... Also, Cassie seems to be missing a bit more information regarding Lucy.

Like Cassie's archetypes of herself, each of her mental images is a two-dimensional construct. That includes those of her friends.

For the record, either on revisit or in the postgame (not sure which), if you go back to where the knight and dragon were there's a pile of ash where the knight used to be and you can have a conversation with the dragon about it.

Note that Augustus looks to be about Raz's age, give or take, in that flashback. It's been 20 years since then, and the oldest Aquato child looks mid-teens.

Which implies that Augustus and Donatella were teen parents.

No wonder the Aquatos are so poor off. Throw in Nona going a bit senile at somepoint as the damage caught up to her... Raz running away and the fact that traveling apparently costs them enough money that they can't leave the Questionable Area? until they raise enough money to cover the cost of the trip... It's not okay that they treat Raz gruffly for this, but it's more understandable.

That's probably where they studied Psycho-Isolation Raz.

Yeah, the combination seemed obvious to me, too.

...So the thought occurs to me that Lucy being a former psychonaut might be why there was a Psi-Challenge Marker in the Aquatodome.

In the first game, Raz was able to talk through the stream just fine, it was only the lake, and water in the mental worlds, that were problems.

Presumably, it has to be deep enough for him to drown... Or at least think he can drown. We just found ut last time that the curse is just a superstition born from Lucy and Agustus trying to rationalize the phobia that Ford placed on them and the whole thing is Psychosomatic. The rules are probably whatever Raz thinks the rules are.

As far as we know, Compton and Cassie are just friends. Remember: Compton is a grandfather and his grandchildren look like him, but not like Cassie.

So that's a still. He is fermenting and distilling mushrooms. Waste of perfectly good yummy bumps of fungus if you ask me.

Bob has also aged like Milk. He's spent _at_ least ten years and probably much longer by himself, not self-maintaining, living mostly on moonshine and... So alcoholism runs in my family. Not a bad as Bob, but it's very hard on you in mind and body.

So there are two ways to read the scene regarding the plant giving Raz permission to go into Bob's head and I don't know which I like better.

1: The plant is fully sapient and this is equivocal to staging an intervention.

2: The vine is not sapient and is under Bob's control and Bob is subconsciously begging for help becuase he knows he has a problem but can't admit it to himself.

The second is supported by the fact that Bob doesn't really resist once the portal is in place.

Not Lucrecia, Tia. You'll meet her in a little bit.

Immediately the Bob in the mind is... Much nicer than the Bob in the outside world. He's sad and confused, but not violent. H's not a bad guy, he's just a mean drunk.

That's not water. That's his moonshine. His mindscape is literally flooded with alcohol. It behaves like water as a gameplay mechanic, but so do the lines at the concession stands in Helmut's mind.

So Tia isn't "aunty," Tia is the name of Bob's mother.

And I hope you do more island exploration becuase there's one more construct I want to see your reaction to.

The Bulb Bobs seem to be reciting lines from drinking songs.

A stone woman, specifically... In rigor mortis.

You first encounter Bad Moods in the mind of bob Zanatto. A man who is frequently in ill-temper due to his excessive drinking.

Note: Bad Moods see Raz as a psychiatrist.

Yeah... The implication is that Tia Zanatto was also an alcoholic and that she drank in the greenhouse. And that she either finally overdid it, or that the complications caught up with her, or that she... Not alived herself, and Bob fond her body and started drinking himself to cope.

You could go but the bottle wouldn't have been there. It only spawned in during that cutscene.

This is a dark place and Bob has been here for a long time. Keep that in mind.

The Moth strongly resembles Bob's face for a reason...

You'll notice that some of the tiles are cracked.

Unless they changed it again, you've already seen the page: Originally it only mentioned dental phobias, but changed to include fear of tight spaces and vomit in the same patch that added the checkmarks to show world completion and the quality of life and expanded post-game due to receiving feedback.

So make a note: Bob's flashback of the day he was fired makes Truman out to be much more reasonable than the image of Truman on the island.

Bob tried to invent the beard of holding. It was a... Mixed success.

Red velvet wedding cake, through an impossible space into a confetti wedding cake, into chocolate, and I legit don't know what the blue and green one is. If this is accurate then these two went all out for their wedding.

Otto was at the weddingIn Helmut's mind under the stage there's an auto figment in formal wear near the other wedding figments. But... Well, I'll get to that later.

The implication here is that Bob was a little drunk at the wedding but wasn't so far gone enough to not realize it was a problem and make an ass of himself. He took the time to compose himself because... He had a problem, but it wasn't until he lost Helmut that it dominated his life.

The burp shattering the face of the Helmut and the highly realistic skull inside? Probably reminiscent of a mixture of what Bob feared may have happened and his belief that Helmut is dead and gone forevermore... 

...Lost forever... like Lenore.

"Quoth the Raven, nevermore."

The birds that have been carrying the Bulb Bob's are specifically ravens because he's mourning a lost love that he feels he will never see again. Crap, I thought those were shanties but I'm gonna have to cross-reference Bulb bob's lines against Poe's work. I just realize it but now it's so obvious now that I've thought of it god damn. I typed a thing and my brain made a connection.

This game is fricking brilliant.

So Psi-King's sensorium is the prettiest level, but the flashback of Bob's wedding vows is hands down the most beautiful thing in this game. Seriously, I tear up a little hearing it.

The Feel Mobile is there becuase this is a feels trip.

You might notice the "sailing themes," while an orignal score to be sure, has just some slight influence from Drunken Sailor at the very beginning of the loop.

On Otto...  Note how in Helmut's memory vault, Helmut was the last of the seven to join. Bob was in psychic six-well before Helmut.

The moth is an embodiment of Bob's alcoholism. His instinct to isolate himself and use liquor to bury his painful memories and numb himself to anything coming in the future. The Truheltia Memonstria(*Tru*man, *Hel*mut, and *Tia*) are the memories he's trying to bury. But also the lies that he tells himself to _justify_ his alcoholism.

And note how it's another self-destructive boss: It gives you those mines that you can throwback to damage it. Alcoholism isn't something you can control, you can either moderate your drinking or you can't(which is consistent with a lot of addictions and similar behaviors, whether it's inborn or acquired you're never "cured" of it)... But the justifications you make for yourself to indulge your alcoholism or other addictions _is_ a behavior that can be changed and it should be becuase if you let the addiction control you then you'll end up in an early grave.

'Wonder what the Truman plant being a firebreathing monster represents,' he said sarcastically.

Bob starts fighting back when the Helmut Memonstria says "I never loved Bob" because that's something that Bob can't convince himself of. And how could he? It's an act of love most supreme to throw yourself in front of a killing blow meant for someone else. True love. _Unconditional_ love.

And the very thought of that crossing his mind, the simple idea that Helmut didn't really love him is enough t make Bob admit he has a problem and start right then and there to work towards it, resisting his urge to drink his pain away... Becuase if it means spitting on Helmut's memory if it means denying that love, it's not worth it. Bob's love for Helmut is stronger than all of his pain put together.

Alcoholics Anonymous, the most successful alcoholism support group, states that the first step toward sobriety is to admit that you are powerless in the hands of alcohol and entrust yourself to a "higher power" that gives you the strength you need. For Bob? That's his love for Helmut.

His line about taking the new seeds coming in "one at a time" is likewise evocative of common advice when dealing with addiction: Take it one day at a time.

Elijah Wood doe a good job in this scene I think. He's essentially playing two roles at the same time: Jack Black, and the character that Jack Black is playing. And I think he nails it, especially the delivery of "borrowed lips, it wouldn't be right."

So there's probably something symbolic about Bob making his moonshine out of something his beloved Helmut hates.

So Helmut relating to Bob how he survived is framed a little bit like a "kill yourself to avoid being killed by someone else" type thing with the comment that Helmut "blew his brains out." But you know, it ended much better(eventually) than that usually does.

Actually, the gag order doesn't stop the Archetype from talking... It sounds like he's got a pillow shoved in his mouth.

So once you clear a mind the rule of symbolism kind of goes away if you go into a combat zone, they'll just spawn in whatever.

So, all of the psychic six, but especially Bob and Helmut would be well justified in holding a grudge against Lucy... But not one of them does. and Bob, followed by Helmut, are the first ones that come in for the hug. Even Otto goes in for the hug.

So... Of all the minds, it seems that Helmut's view of the crew was most accurate.

And Raz seems to be taking Lucy's place in the psychic seven for this job. That's a nice touch, but also... Maybe he doesn't want to be sitting on that cushion given what Nona just said.

Note: This is the only time anyone in Raz's family has called him Raz. I the real world, his father calls him Razputin, his mother and Nona call him Pootie, and his siblings call him Pooter.

Back in the first game, he said something along the lines of "They call me Raz" and... No. No one did until he instructed himself that way. So either 1: That's a nickname he wants to be addressed by that nobody does or 2: He made it up on the spot to try and sound cool.

Though honestly, considering hes' named after Grulovia's greatest love machine I'm not sure why he'd want a cooler name.

If you've noticed, variations of the Meat circus theme have been consistently played as a recurring motif with Razputin's family throughout this game... But not the actual theme itself. It's the same melody, but the instrumentation will be slightly different, or here it's a higher pitch. It consistently sounds somewhat less sinister due to tose changes and also the different context, if only slightly.

Which, naturally, makes sense: The meat circus was the corrupted and distorted version.

He'd have been doing it the whole time if you'd bought the Bobby pin.

....So I only just noticed that the way Nona carries herself and the way she's dressed kind of make her resemble a flee when viewed from profile.

So, you know... The high dive is a lot higher and delivered the second time you climb it.

So a Sonic the Hedgehog game introduced rail grinding as part of a promotional tie-in for Soap Shoes and that just became The Thing for platformers for like a decade.

So I think it's safe to say now: Maligula is a disassociated identity and an embodiment of Lucy's Fight or Flight response cranked up to 11 and permanently stuck on Fight. The experiments that the Psychic Seven did in the heptadome rendered her very fragile, as has been explained. She went to Grulovia becuase it was invaded and used her vast powers to swiftly end the war, but when the war was over the people became dissatisfied with the Gzar and wanted change. BEcuase of how... Vulnerable Lucy still was, she was susceptible to manipulation and she would disperse crowds of protestors peacefully with rain... But one time it didn't work, and she'd unknowingly caused a huge build-up behind the damn. Keep the rain up a little too long... Sploosh.

The realization that she'd inadvertently killed countless people... With her sister being one of them? Broke her. A piece of her splintered off, becoming an Alter embodying the dark, base instincts that everyone has, that should have been easy to control, and she lashed out, seeing everything as a threat to be destroyed. Because that was easier than dealing with the sheer _horror_ of what had just happened.

That would be bad at the best of times... but as one of, if not _the_, strongest psychics alive at the time... Whoa boy.

And yes, Nona has a hell of a lot of emotional baggage and Ford used *all of it* to hold Maligula down.

I've seen people argue that he looks like a vaguely middle eastern peasant to 'Truman's' perspective.

Don't worry, Norma's already made as much of a mess as she possibly can.

The fact that the line stander figments talk when you collect them is really offputting.

Lili sees Raz as himself, but taller and more well-kempt. Big improvement from the first game where she saw him as Romeo.

The line attendant sees you as something to be herded.

...That's a very accurate guess Zodi.

Yeah. During the war, an invading force attacked young Gristol, and he was rescued by Lucy... So he unambiguously sees her as a hero and in his mind twists history to support that narrative. And... Rightly, he thinks of father using and abusing her and then trying to dispose of her when he was unable to control her as something that was... You know, *wrong*.

It'd be sweet if he wasn't a narcissistic sociopath.

The rich and spoiled pay out the ass to eat the parts of the food that other people throw away. That's how lobster got its start, believe it or not.

Money is a strange thing. You can have not enough money and too much money for your own good, even at the same time, but you can never have enough.

Unlike every other mind you've been in, Gristol isn't mentally ill. Not from psitnium poisoning, not from sensory deprivation, not from an organic disorder, not from brain damage, not from trauma, though he's certainly had traumatic experiences. Based o his knowledge and life experiences, he's perfectly rational.

That's what makes him scary.

Ah, lobster came up. To be specific, it was considered garbage to the point that feeding it to prisoners too often was legally considered cruel and unusual punishment, then people on the coast started selling it to rich people who struck it big out west by claiming it was a delicacy and shipping cars full of lobster on ice out to them on the railways and the opinion of the wealthy rubes supplanted the orignal opinion that it was an icky sea bug.

Gristol acts like his family were living in abject squalor... when he can afford to permanently rent out the penthouse at a five-star, highly exclusive casino resort and buy so much caviar that he forgets about it and leave it out till it goes bad. Really, it's a good example of how if the upper class doesn't raise their kids right, they won't appreciate what they have.

The term diaspora is sometimes used to refer to anyone being forced to leave their homeland and scatter across the world, usually as a simile.

I mean, technically you've been punching Nick in the brain for a while.

Raz did in fact point out the rotten caviar.

The Gristol in the mental construct of the Luctopus penthouse sees Raz as a fellow prince and is quite friendly with him, at least after finding out that he's Grulovian. This is probably the one part of Gristol that... Actually cares about people. The nugget of truth in his otherwise absurd idea that freeing Maligula will be a net good for the Grulovian people and that they'd all be wealthy. H's mostly just being a spoiled brat, but on some level, he *does* want to help even if the rest of him is just a rich asshat.

So, if Raz says yes," he says yes before clarifying that he's only half. I don't know what he says if you say no.

Note that Gristol refers to Raz in his mind as "a rusted agent of the psychonauts" and not "the kid that literally just showed up like three days ago." He doesn't actually know who Raz is...

This combat section is clearly based on Gristol's memory of being attacked and Caligula rescuing him... And other than the censors, the enemies here all correspond to the kind of feelings he'd have at the time or have pon looking back at it later.

Note, there are Dogen and Bobby Zilch and Mikail and suicide cult figments in the camp facade. Gristol was monitoring the camp _recently._

Kind of explains why "Truman" had the big freak out about Lilli having a boyfriend at the end of Rhombus: the real Truman was probably kidnapped and the switch happened as the first game was happening. Gristol probably stopped monitoring the camp like, the day Raz showed up, sometime before the evening. From his perspective, he looks away for a short period of time, and then a big change happens.

There's also a theory that since Loboto was working for both Gristol and Oleander at the same time, that Gristol was aware of Oleander's plans and was planning to co-opt them. "The World Shall Taste My Eggs" makes more sense from an egg obsessed mind than a meat obsessed mind.

"Everything was awesome for me, it had to be awesome for everyone else, right?"

So important thing to note: Despite not being psychic, Gristol has absurd control of his own mental world. He's confronting Raz directly in his own mind while simultaneously controlling Truman's body in meat space and manipulating the environment in the mindscape to his advantage.

Too bad that it seems to be a consistent rule that your mental self is only as strong as your natural meat body. Otherwise, he might have been a threat.

You can go back for the Figments Zodi.

There was like a second between Lili running off with Raz and Lucy turning back into Maligula. Also, Milla seemed to understand perfectly so...

Honestly, the plan to stop Maligula for good probably would have gone off without a hitch if Gritol hadn't pulled Raz out, so this is all Norma's fault.

By the way: Shasha and Milla are in their clothes from the first game again for some reason.

So, in the flee circus there's evidence of a knife-throwing act, but no sign of a fat lady either in the real Aquato circus or the construct of it that Ford created.

But the one tent in the Aquato Family's camp does kind of match the color scheme of the Fat Lady that was a bouncy platform in the Meat Circus in the first game.

And here: Raz has known for the past long while that the curse isn't real, but it's still been an obstacle. Here he's stating outright that it's not real and is confronting the water head-on *because he has to.* If he doesn't, then the world is doomed. Again. This is important.

The first time one of Raz's relatives calls him Raz in meat space is when the whole family gets together to help him save the world... After Donatella hands Augustus the pinecone he's been levitating and trying to ignite all dayyou can tell a lot about someone by how they react in a crisis. Raz's siblings and mother react to a crisis by finally accepting Raz and Agustus's psychic nature and letting go of their prejudices because there's more important stuff to be concerned with. They're even starting to use Raz's preferred name.

I mentioned Rainbow Lensing, treating a non-LGBT topic as a metaphor for it back in my comments on the first stream. And this is it. It's very easy to see Raz's family and their reactions to his running away and being openly psychic and compare it to a gay or trans kid coming out to their family and the myriad of reactions to it... I'm not really sure I can comment on whether or not it was done well.

As an aside, modern technology references exempted, the games very clearly seem to be set in the 80s or 90s. Bob and Helmut's marriage was over 20 years ago, putting it in the 60sor 70s. And since Hollis's memory of tampering with Dr. Pott's mind seems to suggest that sexism and racism are a thing(he has 'race' and 'woman' idea bubbles and, well, Hollis is clearly coded as an African American woman...) that means that homophobia is probably still a thing regardless of the existence of psychics and prejudices against them.

So Bob and Helmut's wedding was very much a "**** you, we're doing what makes us happy regardless of the law or society's thoughts" thing. And that's pretty cool.

Back on topic, Mirtala continues to be just a little too young to really understand what's going on.

And yes, it's terrifying how powerful psychics can potentially be... and Raz is of this same bloodline. He's already demonstrated absurd levels of power. He is probably going to be this powerful someday, if not stronger, and he has no shortage of potential mentors to help him refine his power and hone his skills.

Just, hope to god that he never loses his support network. If he snaps the world is probably screwed.

There's no reason to suspect that _anyone_ but Ford and the other psychic six knew how to get through the forgetful forest. The place is locked up tighter than Fort Nox. Truman probably sent the letters to Bob by giving them to Otto, who we know has gone there at least once to set up an Otto-matic for presumably just in case Bob or Casie want to buy something.

Earlier Ford refers to Raz's grandparents as Lazlo and Morona, but, like you said, Lazlo is a perfectly valid nickname for someone named Lazarus.

Raz did say that Maligula was in the way, Zodi.

Notice that Caligula has no defensive game. She attacks and she moves around. Fight or Flight exaggerated and stuck on fight.

I get the feeling that they meant for Morris to be the first one to show up but the phases got switched around.

"Everything I got" is obviously a call back to the first game... But either Nona has more to give than Augustus did, or just a few days was enough for Raz's skill to grow becuase instead of a mere energy construct this time we get...

*Bum ba buh dum!*

You all wanted it but were afraid to ask...

The Triumphant Return of...

*Goggleor!*

I get the feeling that this last phase of the boss fight was just the develops deciding, just for the hell of it, to show what Lungfishopolis would have been if they had the resources needed to do that concept justice. I'm pretty sure that's even the same music.

Because Raz confronted the 'curse' head-on, he's conquered his fear and now the Hand of the Golochio _helps_ him

Much better. It's amazing what a little experience and a decent budget can get you.

Regarding doing more with the family: In the casino, Raz alludes to playing a game called Gruloky with Nona... Apparently, data miners have found unused voice clips of Raz explaining some of the rules and e entire aquatic family playing it, suggesting that at some point there was a "play Gruloky with the family" sidequest or minigame that got cut.

D'Artagnan isn't in the game. Though the kooky lady in psycho isolation will guess that that's Raz's name. And it was his hat, not his scar, that was too awesome to work in the game engine.

At a bare minimum, there's gonna be some Psychonauts 2 DLC. Could have sworn it was already announced but I can't remember from where I heard that. Like... going back to Rhombus. Loboto said that someone was paying him to steal Raz's brain specifically, but Gristol doesn't have much idea of who Raz is... This implies that Loboto was moonlighting for a _third_ employer that we don't even know about yet.

Knight accidentally called you Zordon. Don't know about you, but that's a pretty flattering mistake.

there's a Viking helmet in the ball with Helmut's brain.

Under standard difficulty settings, you take damage after respawning from the water. That goes away in the post-game.

So, regarding the concessions: the lines there behave like water, fall in and can't get back out and the hand comes out and drags you in. I've seen it thrown around that, in the post-game, the hand instead makes you crowd surf.

Loboto left his kid at the camp.

So... There's someone at the camp who has a similar body type to Loboto, the same skin color, similar heterochromia, who has a bit of an inferiority complex, who teared up at the mention of the good relationship between Raz and his father at the end of the first game, and whose Campster profile lists his favorite music, movies, and so on as all things that are about or include dysfunctional families, abusive or absent father figures, and/or murderous psychos.

Bobby is Loboto's son. Which, yeah... Daddy stole his brain. No wonder the kid has issues.

So basically they built the mural with Lucrecia but then just left a tarp over her part for the last 20 years.

If Raz is Nate Grey, Queepie is Molly Hayes.

Apparently, there's a way to trigger Raz saying that Otto's the only member of the Psychic Seven whose mind he didn't visit and then says "maybe someday" but I don't know how that gets triggered but... Yeah. Overt sequel hook.

"Didn't see _you_ breathing fire at a giant manifestation of Nona's overinflated fight or flight complex, Frazie."
"...What?"

Donnatella just flat-out ignores that the curse was never real... Oh God in psychonauts 3 i's gonna turn out that curses are real after all and Donatella is secretly a former witch?

...Okay, I _think_ Donnatella's comments about using psychic powers to crush the opposition is better than her previous attitude...

You know, the funiculars might be another place where using the speed-up time bubble pin might work.

*sigh* Mental Gristol is _halfway_ there...

So what are the odds that the scar on Augustus's face came from a mishap with the knife-throwing act?

Raz's face when Augustus reveals that they're getting swimming lessons from Oleander is probably peak "well okay then."

I'm fully expecting that if there is a Psychonauts 3, or if they somehow add more powers in DLC, that Nona will teach Raz how to consciously control his hydrokinesis.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't multiple psi powers that are applications of it.

As is, if Raz can learn a psi power from Nona, Compton, Bob, Otto, and Truman he'll have trained under the entire "who's who" of the psychonauts.

Yeah, turns out the hydrokinetic is thirsty as hell. The question is... Was Lucy always like that, or is she just at the age where she doesn't give a crap anymore?

Queepie is hanging out with Morris. But you never fond Morris so...

----------


## LaZodiac

Jack in, LaZodiac, execute!

*Zodi Streams: Mega Man Battle Network [1] Set Up!*

*Video Length: 3:52:53*

Starting a new game stream. This time, Mega Man Battle Network! A lovely game I'm super nostalgic for, that I think everyone will enjoy. I know I did.

Special guest start the ever lovely and wonderful girlfriend of mine, Qwertystop. Give her a big hand (she is also why me posting this VOD is late, naturally).

----------


## Rater202

Observation I forgot from last time.

In the promotional materials for Psychonauts 2 it was mentioned that part of the game would be Raz learning what terms like "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" really mean... But his relationship with Lilli kind of takes a back seat. Most of her scenes in the game are optional and easily misible.

So you'd think they lied... Until you recall that pretty much all of Ford's mental world's are representations of the high points and low points of his relationship with Lucy. The love they feel for each other, the turmoil within Ford when Lucy was in trouble, and the extreme lengths he was willing to go to to help her, and guilt that he couldn't do more or do better.

And Helmut's mind and Bob's mind both have a great deal of focus on the romance between Bob and Helmut as well...

Between those minds, Raz probably learned quite a lot about how that kind of relationship works.So... When it comes to battle NEtwork I've only ever seen the Anime. I legitly don't know what form that is from what specific game in this subseries, but I know that "your vpet is literally alive and fully sapient" is a cool concept. I also knowsome major lore stuff from assimilation.

And as far as I know literally the only difference between this timeline and the orignal Megaman timeline is "Doctor Light's AI research was done for its own sake rather than the sake of better robots which led to a boom in computers and internet technology."

And yes, two LaZodiacs... The question is, which one is the Western LaZodiac and which one the Eastern LaZodiac?

...Zodi, do you have any knights? You know, Knights of LaZodiac?

Oh God, the first thing you have to do in the game is get up and go to school... Gonna be honest, while some games with a "school" plot can be fun video games are about escapism.

And comments made the zodiac joke already.

My Eastern zodiac sign is the Rooster. It's very easy to look up since it corresponds to years instead of the position of the sun in relation to constellations on a vaguely monthly basis

Though, bit of side trivia: The Eastern zodiac doesn't just cycle through the 12 animals, but also five elementswood, fire, earth, metal, water every two years Not only was I born in the year of the Rooster, I was born in the year of the _Water_ Rooster.

I'm a sea chicken...

My eastern zodiac sign is _tuna._

By sheer confidence, my Western Zodiac Sign, Cancer, is also a water sign by the western zodiac's internal logic, and Water signs in the Eastern Zodiac are described as being the same was as cancers are commonly described. The actual base Rooster description is way the hell off for me though.

Lan hid test answers in his room? Wow, Lan's kind of a twerp.

And yes, right after you get up in the morning is a little early to go to bed. You've got to at least eat breakfast and take a bath first.

You know how in Terminator 2 teenage Punk John Conor had that thing he could pug into machines and it hacked them for him? He used it to rob an ATM and then much later to bust through a door? That. That's Lan's secret tool.

...Someday, Zodi... Someday, when the stars align just right, MegaMan Volnutt will be released from his orbiting Lunar Prison and we will *finally* get Legends 3.

Also, MegaMan 11 was basically just "a bunch of calls forwards to X and Zero" so...

MegaMan.Exe is _especially_  like a person becuase as one of the main characters he actually gets development instead of being a satellite for someone else and that's the *only* reason.

In the original series Light and Wily both did Robots, they just had different goals: Light wanted to make robots with humanlike intelligencethe capacity for free will, the ability to learn and grow beyond their programming. Becuase the Terminator Franchise doesn't exist in this universe, Light's research was funded but Wiley's was passed over.

Note: Doctor Light in the main timeline technically never actually fulfilled his goal while aliveProtoman possessed true free will and ability to grow, but only becuase of a defect that was slowly killing him and that Light couldn't replicate. All of the other Robot Masters could learn and make decisions, but their personalities were hardcoded and they couldn't act against their programming even if they tried(see Megaman just up and trying to execute Wiley at the end of one game and physically being unable to becuase Light programmed all of his robots to never hurt humans.)

X had true free will, including being able to act against programmed behaviors and grow as a person... He even has a soul, but Light was long dead by the time that X activated so he never saw if X was a success or not.

Wily's research wasn't originally elaborated on but 11 eventually clarified that Wily originally wanted to create a world wherein an emergency, any robot could step in and be a hero and so created the "Duel Gear" system that would allow a robot that had it installed in it to overclock their own systems to either massively increase their speed or the amount of power the could output, or if absolutely necessary both, in order to deal with an emergency.

However,this puts a lot of strain on the system of the robot and could lead to damage, which resulted in the board providing funding dismissing Wily's creation out of hand becuase they apparently ignored the "for emergencies" part.

Afterward, Wily smashed his prototype and stewed in his anger so long that... Well, I don't think I need to explain the rest. He didn't touch the duel gear system for years until MM11.

And... No, turns out that the Duel Gear system is much better tech than Robot Masters if you put it in a bot that can handle the strain. Dr. Light needs to repair Wily's prototype(which he saved becuase he felt bad that Wily was overlooked... Which is also why he keeps falling for it when Wily pretends to be reformed) and install it in Rock just to have a chance and when Wily points out that he only lost this time becuase light used his tech against him... Light fully admits it. "I could only bring out MegaMan's full potential by using your Duel Gear system... Or inventions complement each other well... We can still work together if you still beleive in your dream of robot heroes" and at this point, Wily is too far gone to take the chance at genuine redemption when t's freely offered.

(Of note, the way the overclock features manifest in Rock are virtually identical to abilities that X has by default, and simply having the duel gear system installed seems to upgrade Rock's Weapon Generation systemin addition to copying an enemy's primary weapon, he also copies their secondary weapons and to an extent their armor. The implication is that X's infinite capacity to improve his hardware and software is the result of Light continuing to experiment with the Duel Gear system on his own and further integrating it with his own technology.)

It makes the entire classic series really sad... But at the same time makes the fact that Zero, Wily's ultimate creation, and not X, Light's, was the ultimate Hero of the X-Era timeline sort of... Heartwarming in hindsight. Wily achieved his orignal dream of creating robotic heroes despite turning against it.

You've never had sink pie, Zodi?

Gonna be honest, if what I've heard of this subseries is accurate, WarGreymon is probably drastically underselling what .Exe is capable of. He'd maybe be Omnimon Mercy Mode. You know, the only good thing to come out of Tri.

...so Lan's mom cooks with battle chips?

Lan, you always have to walk to school together because Mayl wants you.

...So Mayl's Navi is this game's version of Roll... Who in the anime at least is presented as a love interest for Megaman... But the original Rock and Roll were siblings. Like, everything other than the classic series makes the Rock and Roll analogs romantic partners instead of siblings and I think that's weird.

Also, how does MegaMan.Exe know so much about... Like, he was literally just installed. Did he come preprogrammed with all the information about Lan's life?

You know, if the ovens can spit fire... The fact that that's physically possible in the first place tells me that that's more of a hardware problem than a software problem.

I see that their school is just an open set of cubicles floating in the ocean.

...Wait, this is elementary school?

All that invisible graffiti on the blackboard.

Is the living forehead supposed to be angry and arrogant or does she just have resting bitch face? Like, I vaguely remember that character design from the anime but she didn't look super angry all the time.

...That cellphone line aged very poorly. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the next iPhone doesn't actually have a phone in it becuase you can just use the internet connection to video call people on your contacts list.

...How does Ego the Living Foforehead know about Megaman. He was literally just installed like a few minutes ago. Did an automatically generated status update go to everyone in Lan's contact list? Lan installed a custom NetNavi: Megaman.Exe

Like, in the anime at least a point was made that Lan was kind of well known for using a generic sentient starter Navi becuase he promised he woulnd't make one till his father sent him the data for a custom one but... Here there's nothing like that.

So like... This is elementary school, they're fifth grade... So like, ten or eleven?

So why is the army automatized through the internet? Why don't they like... Have a private network for exactly this reason.

Also, I don't think viruses work that way.

He's not a muppet man Zodi. A Muppet man is three Muppets standing on top of each other in a trenchcoat. He's just a Muppet.

Dex looks like... Not good. That is... that is peak "fat ugly idiot" character design. Though he does have a point in that netbattling doesn't bother anyone... Unless it causes collateral damage to the school's local portion of the net, which might actually be posisble.

"Class, today we're learning how to deal with viruses. I've deliberately infected the school's mainframe, so plug in your devices and clean my mess."

And the school's mainframe is literally just the classroom but digital and...

This isn't the Digimon of Megaman, it's the Yu-Gi-Oh of Megaman. The entire world revolves around a children's fad.

Gotta use chips, no default Megabuster here... Which means that if your the poor kid who can't afford good chips you're kinda screwed in this school.

"Okay students, in this lesson your fully sapient best friend cold actually ****ing die if you screw up." My god, this school is a nightmare.

Oh, you do have a megabuster it just kind of sucks.

Class is like five minutes of a lesson that, if you fail, will destroy your _fully sapient_ personal property? And I thought American public schools were bad.

No, seriously, why are the ovens physically capable of spitting fire? That seems like an intentional design flaw.

Oh God... Mandatory Manual saves. At least you don't have to find savepoints.

Latest version... Is Gutsman a mass-produced Navi rather than a custom unit? I mean, I noticed that the generic classmates had the same Navi as their same-gendered counterparts but I assumed that was becuase They're generic sprites... Or maybe just the generic nonsapient Navis...

If you can mass-produce the same one that kind of makes the concept less special.

And yeah, you just fricking murdered Gutsman. Deleted him. *Now Assimilate his code into your own to become stronger.* Becuase this is MegaMan and he has to copy other people's powers somehow.

He's a sore loser, but of course, he is, you just erased his friend that he just bought the latest version of from existence.

...Okay, in all seriousness, maybe he means he downloaded a patch for the base underlying NetNavi program that sort of upgraded Gutsman and he just phrased it wrong? Or the latest version of a combat algorithm? A sort of Gutsman 2.0? Or whatever the version number is are.

And I mean, it would be natural to think that would guarantee a win. Not like MegaMan is built from the ground up to be the best possible Navi by an industry insider or anything. Or any _other_ reasons why he might be better than a normal Navi.*shifty eyes*

And it's been maybe 20 minutes tops since he was installed and your dad already has a massive upgrade for him.

Old Man, if you have to prove that you're not senile, you might be a touch senile.

The man who went to the park instead of work knows what h's talking about Zodi.

The forehead that ate Chicago is eight and skipped a grade...

Which means that... The average fifth grader in this town is 9?

Also, the fact that "I'm still only eight" came immediately after "so you're interested in me" is uh... Yeah. I don't know if that was on purpose but it says bad things about where her thought process was going.

...You can get chips by fighting? So the chips aren't even actual chips, they're just... Data?

Unfortunately, weird generic muppet boy, this isn't the legends era of the classic timeline so people are not machines and this can't be interfaced with.

Why is there a virus in your security system? Why is that connected to the net?

...If you're the watchdog then what's the other guy, random program sitting in the corner?

And that is obviously the guy who somehow makes ovens breathe fire and *AND SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FRICK A VIRUS COULD ONLY DO THAT IF THE OVEN COULD DO THAT ALREADY!*

Either the people who made this game don't know how the internet works and think that hacking is magic... Which would be really weird for people who make software, or seriously someone made ovens that can breathe fire for some inexplicable reason.

And the fact that he uploads the virus directly into your house in person means that the house is wireless but not connected to the Internet which raises the question of *how are their viruses in your security system?* Why is that connected to the net when the house isn't and...?

The rich girl's partner is a solid gold bishi. That checks out.

...Okay, you are clearly p to something and Qwerty clearly knows what that is? I swear to god if I get jump scared becuase this is a hacked emulation simulating a Cursed Game CreepyPasta that I will brave the frozen white north to give you a piece of my mind in person.

"Lan sees a hyperlink to the dark web and thinks 'we'll check that out later.'"

So wait, how do you get money from busting viruses?

Stopping an hour and five in because I probably shouldn't stay up all night three weekends in a row. More thoughts when I have them.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Mega Man Thoughts


So, some outside context; Mega Man was not "just installed" and I'm not sure where you got that from. Lan's had Mega Man from birth, roughly. Dex mentions he "just got the newest model" for Gutsman, but later in the series they establish Gutsman is a custom made Navi that Dex hand crafted, not one of the generic store models like the NPC navis. The best explanation is that Dex just got a new rig for Gutsman's body-frame, for him to make him look (and be) bulkier, or something along those lines.

Yai, the girl with a seven-head, has a netnavi butler. It's pretty cool. Lan is apparently intended to be 11 years old, so yeah Yai skipped a bunch of grades.

Whatever the special surprise is, I can assure you it's nothing bad.

Chips and money are data that are processed into your bank account and chip folder. Chips are physical objects, but how they actually interact with Mega Man implies that once chip data is loaded the physical chip doesn't really matter cause it is now inside Mega Man's weaponry folder. Money is likely just digital fiat currency that can be printed from ATMs and the like.

----------


## Qwertystop

> So, some outside context; Mega Man was not "just installed" and I'm not sure where you got that from. Lan's had Mega Man from birth, roughly. Dex mentions he "just got the newest model" for Gutsman, but later in the series they establish Gutsman is a custom made Navi that Dex hand crafted, not one of the generic store models like the NPC navis. The best explanation is that Dex just got a new rig for Gutsman's body-frame, for him to make him look (and be) bulkier, or something along those lines.
> 
> Yai, the girl with a seven-head, has a netnavi butler. It's pretty cool. Lan is apparently intended to be 11 years old, so yeah Yai skipped a bunch of grades.
> 
> Whatever the special surprise is, I can assure you it's nothing bad.
> 
> Chips and money are data that are processed into your bank account and chip folder. Chips are physical objects, but how they actually interact with Mega Man implies that once chip data is loaded the physical chip doesn't really matter cause it is now inside Mega Man's weaponry folder. Money is likely just digital fiat currency that can be printed from ATMs and the like.


In the anime (which is all Rater knows of the series), Mega Man was new in the first episode, and the relevant spoiler thing which in the games would heavily conflict with that just isn't a thing.

My preferred read on how chips are physical things that can also be acquired purely digitally is that A: Lan has a bunch of blank memory chips that he saves chip data onto, B: the folder is a literal small folder/pouch, and C: the random-draw nature of things is because Lan literally just grabs a few to slot in without looking, from which Mega Man then selects several according to code.

Oh, incidentally: the anime covers elements from all six mainline games in the series, but only approximately at best, and the farther it goes the more it's just a completely different story and version of the setting with a lot of character overlap, or sometimes even just character-design overlap.

----------


## LaZodiac

> In the anime (which is all Rater knows of the series), Mega Man was new in the first episode, and the relevant spoiler thing which in the games would heavily conflict with that just isn't a thing.
> 
> My preferred read on how chips are physical things that can also be acquired purely digitally is that A: Lan has a bunch of blank memory chips that he saves chip data onto, B: the folder is a literal small folder/pouch, and C: the random-draw nature of things is because Lan literally just grabs a few to slot in without looking, from which Mega Man then selects several according to code.
> 
> Oh, incidentally: the anime covers elements from all six mainline games in the series, but only approximately at best, and the farther it goes the more it's just a completely different story and version of the setting with a lot of character overlap, or sometimes even just character-design overlap.


Oh! I didn't know that at all, neat!

I kinda figured that too, but it really speaks to how... not good an operator Lan is if he does that. But that's probably the most likely result!

----------


## Rater202

> So, some outside context; Mega Man was not "just installed" and I'm not sure where you got that from. Lan's had Mega Man from birth, roughly. Dex mentions he "just got the newest model" for Gutsman, but later in the series they establish Gutsman is a custom made Navi that Dex hand crafted, not one of the generic store models like the NPC navis. The best explanation is that Dex just got a new rig for Gutsman's body-frame, for him to make him look (and be) bulkier, or something along those lines.


the opening scene was a little confusing and I might have been subconsciously adding information from the anime adaption, where MegaMan was a huge file that Lan downloaded into his PET in the first episode.

Though admittedly, that makes a hell of a lot more sense in context.

On Gutsman... Maybe Dex meant that he transferred Gutsman into a new model of PET? A better OS.


> Mega Man was new in the first episode, and the relevant spoiler thing which in the games would heavily conflict with that just isn't a thing.


I mean it was kind of a thing, just not explicit. They never come out and say it but if you're paying attention to a few key moments you can probably infer it. Granted I'm speaking from hindsight


> Oh, incidentally: the anime covers elements from all six mainline games in the series, but only approximately at best, and the farther it goes the more it's just a completely different story and version of the setting with a lot of character overlap, or sometimes even just character-design overlap.


Please tell me that the "some internet beings can literally open portals to and from the internet and just live in earl space without issue, also the internet starts leaking into the real world in places so Lan has to actually fuse with MegaMan to fight viruses and hostile Navis in the real world" part is in the games. That was probably the dumbest thing but it's also the coolest thing and it would ahve basically set up the plot of starforce.And back in.

"Let's go see if Mom has finished making us a snack" is a really weird phrasing considering that MegaMan is an AI who doesn't exist in physical space and thus can't actually eat anything that Lan's Mom makes.

Cheezy Poofs... Oh God this takes place in the same world as South Park. The Big Bad is gonna be a grown-up Cartman who got his crap together and got a computing degree but is still a murderous sociopath. He's trying to take over the world becuase someone reminded him of that time his high-tech trapper keeper had to be destroyed in order to stop a Skynet scenario and he's decided that if he doesn't get cool AI toys then _no one_ does.

Oh look, the over caught fire somehow even though there should be no way in hell that a virus could do that...

Why is the oven a full-fledge computer? Why can't Lan jack in from the control panel like... Like the obviously evil guy did?

...the boss of the viruses... Becuase viruses have bosses... Is creating the fire... In the real world. There is nothing actually wrong with the oven, the virus is just making fire inside it.

God damn it the internet doesn't work that way.

Why would the thawing section of the oven have ice block data... Why would thawing be a separate function... I feel like DBZA Doctor Gero yelling at Android 19 except I'm not a senile old man responsible for all the design flaws myself.

How does MegaMan know what WWW's data signature is? Why do they even have a data signature, it would be easier to track them.

"We're being delated... Without having to fight a virus or anything, making the entire existence of your combat subroutines superfluous MegaMan. Programs can be deleted without combat."

...Yeah, not having a dedicated virus-busting program in literally everything that's inexplicably connected to the net seems like another intentional design flaw. This oven was made by the people who make PETs and intentionally designed this way to force people to customize their NetNavis with combat routines and buy battle chips. That's also why there are no security programs wandering the net constantly busting viruses and wh your security system has viruses.

The ice block puzzle seems intentionally frustrating.

Oh No, MegaMan was still inside when the explosion pushed you back so now he's trapped in the Oven because of Raisins.

What posisble reason could panel repairman have for outing himself right now? To a random kid of all people?

Did he just fight a fire with a super-soaker?

How did putting out the fire in the real world put out the fire in the oven's digitalized inertial blah blah? The...

So this game is Tien. The stuff it's saying about how all this works in the Shin Kikoho... and I'm Semi-Perfect Cell.

If MegaMan says Roger Roger, I'm out.

Oh yeah, that's an electrical fire... In an electrical device. Not only should Lan be dead, so should Megaman and all the programs in the oven.

God damn it FireMan, don't say your human partner's name... Also, if the oven explodes with you in it won't you die?

In the Anime, FireMan was called TorchMan for some reason.

How did a kid and his Puny Navi defeat HeatMan? It can't possibly be that Megaman was custom designed by an industry insider and is constantly receiving massive upgrades for reasons.

I can't help but think that if the plan was to steal a specific program from ovens that making the ovens explode or spitfire would be counter productive.

Also...Couldn't they just buy ovens, or seal them from a warehouse? Or was it specifically a program in this specific oven that they needed, in which case why target everyone else's oven first?

I think this game might be bad, you guys.

And the fire is miraculously out with no damage.

SoI looked it up, Lan's 11.

And MegaMan... Lan's 11. don't say "only the first time you fought them." He's too young to be fighting terrorists.

...Everything is connected to the internet, everything can be hacked, you have to buy specific software to be able to regularly use your stuff safely, and there are cyberterrorists everywhere...

This is a cyberpunk game.

Yes MegaMan, Lan is hungry. Humans need food to sustain themselves.

But seriously Lan, bad timing. The house almost burned down.

And... Play a bit and then go to bed at like eight in the morning?

So are the generic NPCs the same couple of mass-produced programs that all escaped into real space.

...Everything... Oh God, has anyone in this world drowned becuase someone hacked their bathtub? Has anyone been eaten by a hacked toilet? Becuase if viruses and NEtNavis can do what they did with the oven then there are no rules and we've already established that this game shares a universe with South Park.

Yai hunted the rare endangered Giant Pikachu The Data region to extinction just so she could have a skin rug. Because that's what rich people do.

Also, I think that's a Goron head mounted on her wall. In addition to the Legends references, Capcom's throwing a lot of spite at Nintendo here.

...So Yai's house looks like a mansion but it's literally just a hallway, a sitting room, and her bedroom. Does... Does she live alone?

You just stole money out of the rich girl's phone.

Why are there viruses in the phone!? Why is the phone that _looks like an antique land-line connected to the internet!_

So you basically just stole money and a battle chip from the rich girl's family.

So my experience with MegaMan was, in order, a single episode the Ruby-Spears cartoon on a channel I could never find again, watching some friends play one of the MegaMan X games while visiting their house, and then renting Legends. all in the single digits age.

I was so fricking confused and then when the Net Battle anime started airing I was just like "oh, it's all alternate continuities. Gotcha." I didn't learn the true nature of the various timelines until...

Like the first half of the StarForce Anime aired as one continuous movie on Toonami as a special event and then I started looking stuff up becuase it was too similar to what I saw of the Net BAttle anime.

Robot vs Robot Master is not same difference Zodi. Basic robots just do what they're programmed to do. Robot Masters are capable of making decisions on their own to an extreme but limited extent while also legitimately learning and, to a limited extent, growing as people.

It's like comparing modern _Homo s sapiens_ to _austrolopithicus._

So Rich Girl's homepage/slash personal computer is a literal portrait, and Mayle's is a piano, and... Why. Why all this?

What does Mayl think about you coming into her house, poking around, then jacking into her piano/PC and stealing a battle chip from it?

One of the pillow/rugs is a bunny head, the other is its butt.

Why is the random toy connected to the internet?

And the GameCube is connected to the internet.

...Turning on the lights and not sitting too close to the TV isn't true?

Red Face from playing video games for an hour isn't normal Zodi.

Lan's just stealing money and battle chips from his friend's devices, He's kind of a ****ty friend.

Dex is never gonna upgrade Gutsman, is he?

Or he is, but it'll be after you get that massive fricking upgrade from Lan's dad so the gulf between MegaMan and Gutsman will be even bigger despite any upgrade Dex could posibly get his hands on...

Oh my god. Lan is the guy on the playground who says "my dad works at Nintendo and blah blah blah this is what's happening in the game that's coming out" except instead of being a lying little crap making up rumors his Dad is actually a guy working on developing this stuff so Lan has stuff that isn't gonna be on the market for years.

This is a very dystopian game if you think about it from the programs' perspectives.

Lan slept for several days? I don't know if I'm concerned for his well-being or jealous of his ability to super-nap.

You just stole a battle chip from the school nurse what the hell.

And just... Seriously, not only does Lan have the best possible Navi custom-designed by industry insider computer genius dad and regularly upgraded by the same, he also just flat-out steals other people's battle chips.

Lan, your classes are like five minutes long, stop dawdling.

Lan's seat is n the first row and there are like nine students in that class. He never should have been able to sneak in, they would have known right away.

...How is lan _walking_ in roller skates?

It's your hobby and literally everyone elses', Higsby...

And I'm gonna have to finish later because reasons.

----------


## DataNinja

O, hey, Battle Network! Wonder if this means we'll eventually get around to Star Force.  :Small Cool: 

..._wow_, okay, right off the bat, I'm realizing just how _much_ of Star Force was a homage to the Battle Network stuff. (I promise that not all my comments will be about Star Force! That's just my only reference point!)  :Small Tongue: 

Anyways, not much specifically to comment on, besides, yeah, I can see where it all started. The mechanics _and_ the inherent silliness in some of the plot.

----------


## Rater202

Oh hey, the day the weird new guy shows up is the day the terrorists try to brainwash a bunch of little kids. Ain't that quit the coinkydink?

Here's a password that you probably don't even need to double-check once we give you the hint.

Here's a password you can easily find and... So weren't those doors locked earlier? Did unlocking the virtual door automatically unlock the real door?

Here's a password where the hint is to go screw yourself. This one seems incredibly frustrating.

This level appears to be absolute hell.

Somehow Lan is able to help Megaman in the physical world and I just noticed that he's not jacked in despite how the last level showed Lan unable to talk to Megaman when the oven exploded and they got unjacked.

Why would exactly one computer being frozen affect MegaMan... When he's in the Network, not one specific computer?

This is the second time in less than half a week where I've heard the phrase "is girl"  used to describe someone. Discussion of a Fanfic idea someone had of a word where Norville "Shaggy" Rogers is the grandson of Steve Rogers led to someone linking an hour-long video describing the ideal version of each member of Mystery Inc.

I was about to say that if that huge ball had a jack in port...

By the way, I've done some reading into the series and I'm _pretty sure_ I know what the secret is. Need to see more first though.

Higsby is an addict. He's addicted to collecting chips and those WWW bastards took advantage of that.

I can't help but notice that enemy Navis can all do things that Megaman can't without seeming to use chips.

Like, we had the whole conversation about rare chips and he doesn't seem to use any. Unless he just has a hell of a lot of the same three chips.

Another sentient life form murdered by this child. Three for three now. Eat the remains MegaMan, you need to get stronger because your unique power kinda sucks. MegaMan? Me~egaMan...?

.Exe kind of sucks at this whole MegaMan thing. He uses the basic battle chip thing, but everyone can do this and only some chips are related to the defeated enemy. The only other MegaMan who doesn't have a unique (semi)permanent upgrade based on defeated enemies is Volnut and he makes up for it by having a unique dedicated, expandable, and upgradable arsenal. What does .Exe have? Nothing until halfway through the nextgame.

He tried to brainwash and enslave children Zodi. That's kinda bad. And implicitly he did more than try with other schools.

Considering you need to take the metroline to see Dr. Hikari, the most probable explanation is that he is living and working in a separate town and only comes home when he has enough time off work that he can actually spend time with his family to a meaningful degree. Why come home if you barely have time to eat a rushed dinner before having to head right back if you want to be on time in the morning.

I hear that's not too uncommon in Japan, actually.

Qwerty here's nothing wrong with setting things on fire. Did you know that there is a large correlation between people who set things on fire and people who end up being various types of scientists and engineers?

*Here's story* See? Exactly! It only technically worked, but to paraphrase a talking dog voiced by the guy who voiced Bender, sucking at engineering is the first step to being kind of good at engineering.

...And now I'm thinking about how you'd actually go about making bacon pancakes. Would you beleive I've never actually watched _Adventure Time_? I know the bacon pancake thing, "floop the pig," that Finn and Jake keep getting reincarnated and that one of Finn's previous incarnations was a green chick, the song "I'm Just Your Problem," the Ice King's backstory, that there are a disturbing number of severed arms for a kids show, that Marceline's father was an *******, and that Marceline and Bubblegum were a couple in the backstory and end up being a couple again by the time the show ends.

But that's just from Osmosis.

And as that tangent demonstrates, everybody gets weird thoughts in their heads that lead to weird places. Nothing to feel bad about.

Zodi, out of curiosity what kind of sandwich was that? I'm very fond of pepperoni, hard salami, and provolone either straight up or as a melt myself. And one time in high school I did pepperoni, roast beef, and sliced roast chicken on toasted sourdough with honey barbecue sauce and shredded cheddar.

Apparently inside games Mr. Match cycles through them.

And apparently, FlameMan and FireMan are technically the same Navi?

HeatMan's a separate character though...

Which is the exact opposite of the anime.

Don't forget the beauty of a flower... Until we figure out how to connect that to the internet too.

So interesting story: When I was in the first grade, my class was learning about metamorphosis by rasing various animals that metamorphosized. 

We didn't get to study frogs becuase the tadpoles ate each other.

"Keep up the good work fighting terrorists, eleven-year-old student of mine!"

Why are the breaks in the car a program! And the accelerator... There's no reason for that to not be manual! And... The car should stop moving eventually if you take your foot off the accelerator Not just keep going forever. This is a terrible design.

And why is the car connected to the Internet? That's the only probable way it can have viruses...

Unless all the devices are designed to create viruses on their own...

The principal is gonna be one of the bad guys.

So... Is the town anthem of ACDC town for _For Those About To Rock?_

...Seriously, this game ranges from apathetic to optimistic about things that would honestly be horrifying and dystopian IRL.

Like, the computers running the metroline should not be accessible by the internet. They should thus not be susceptible to viruses, and if they need to be for some reason they should have top-of-the-line heavy-duty malware protection for exactly this reason.

I think I've made it clear in other threads that I occasionally fantasize about traveling to fictional realities in order to approaite their resources to become immortal and/or a dragon? What I've learned from this playthrough so far is that I need to go to a Digimon universe, become a Bio-Hybrid, then come to this universe, assume my digital form, enter the net, and feed on viruses until I have enough malignant code composing my being that I become a ZeedMilleniumon.

Literally *everything* is connected to the internet so I could easily travel the globe through the Net and nobody would ever be able to catch or stop me because the only way these people have to deal with malware and other hostile programs is to have their virtual pets beat it up.

And apparently the ghosts of NetNavis that the protagonist murders are also on the menu.

And while doing an awful mission, you run into the ghost of FireMan back for revenge. Make sure he stays dead this time.

...Well, I suppose trapping him in a chip so you can use him as a weapon is better than nothing.

...How! You tapped him in a battle chip. He's your slave now. How did he escape already?

Are there just an infinite number of copies of FireMan floating out on the net all independently hunting down MegaMan for revenge?

And... There's no user for Fireman here, right? These aren't Chips, those are just... Hist powers... Despite the fact that at least one of them is also a chip.

So why is MegaMan stuck with just a megabuster unless he uses a chip?

You get charge when you hit the caps for everything else.

I feel called out by the contents of Lan's drawer.

So... Gutsman has been deleted twice in the last week... Is he the same Gustman? The same continuous entity, or is he just a copy with only knowledge up to his most recent backup and then nothing until that backup is activated? Is this Gutsman back from the dead or did MegaMan _murder_ murder him for sport and this is just a cloned duplicate?

Like, minor spoilers I know that souls exist in this world but do Navis have souls and if so does this Gutsman have the same soul as the one you killed earlier?

Or does Dex have a program that scans the net for Ghosts of Gutsman and recompile them back into the Gutsman that you murdered?

Okay, honestly, having your ghost slave sucker-punch Gutsman was hardly sporting.

Is there a program advance for using three shockwaves?

Why wouldn't fire sword be that long? The chip is loaded with the data of a virus tht used a fire sword that was that long.

Part of me thinks that it's narratively bad that there are two WWW plots happening on the same day... But realistically why wouldn't they have multiple agents working on multiple plots simultaneously? It's really only that Lan runs into two on the same day.

You're gonna get swarmed by ghosts of StoneMan now. All because .Exe kinda sucks at being a MegaMan. 

Zodi, remember how FireMan was creating fire in the real world rather than it being a physical thing the ovens did and then defeating him put out the fires and there was no damage except the pie?

Same here with Stone Man.

And I bet the brainwashed kids all snapped to their senses when you murdered numberman.

...That old man just gave you an asterisk-coded recover 80 for a basic task... Also, he didn't clean his dentures before he put them in.

...Why was he wandering down the street instead of in the park looking?

Sword, Longsword, and Widesword I think are how Program Advance was introduced in the anime... except they made it sound like it was the only one and also treated it like a dangerous technique so that Lan and MegaMan had to train to use it properly so when they pulled out another one later it came out of nowhere and was vaguely confusing.

And MegaMan died trying to hack into a cash register to steal from the till. And for some reason, you can't just revive him from a backup like everyone else. And because no auto-save, you lost the super good flamey sword and have to commit two homicides all over again.

----------


## DataNinja

> Like, we had the whole conversation about rare chips and he doesn't seem to use any. Unless he just has a hell of a lot of the same three chips.


Look, you didn't think he'd _use_ them, would you? They're for _collecting_, not using!  :Small Tongue:

----------


## LaZodiac

> Further assorted Mega Man thoughts.


Since you asked; honey-ham on extra soft brizzolio (toasted like a monster) with marble cheese and ketchup.

----------


## Rater202

Incidentally, I just learned that there's apparently an official document out there that includes backstory information for most of the characters from the original psychonauts... Including Boyd's backstory in detail.

It hasn't been confirmed to be canon, but it was used as a reference document while writing and recording dialog and some of the information was reused in the sequels. (Other bits have been contradicted, however)

If Boyd's backstory as laid out in the document is canon than a lot of things that were off about the Milkman Conspiracy make a lot more sense.

(And everything about Oleander's backstory makes perfect sense with his characterization across all three games and ties his being rejected from the military for being too short back to his initial trauma from the bunny slaughter)

----------


## LaZodiac

Stream! Right!

*Zodi Streams: Mega Man Battle Network [2] That's Not How Cars Work*

*Video Length: 3:51:17*

In yesterday's stream, we finished... two scenarios of the game, but they're pretty lengthy ones so it isn't that big of a surprise. We do fight a fair amount of navi's though, and most importantly we learn how cars work. Hope you all enjoy the VOD, I'll see you again perhaps tomorrow.

----------


## Rater202

It's kind of ****ed up that there's a PET bill. The PET contains thinking, feeling, sapient being. Even ignoring that you need a PET for everything and this basically means that once you're an adult you have to essentially pay a bill to a government-backed corporation just to exist and hey they basically are the economy...

Like... There's a spoiler thing that makes the idea of a PET being repossessed all kinds of horrifying.

Backtracking a bit... Sal is a member of an elite internet police task force in the anime.

Zodi, Zodi... Dr. Light Junior is a scientist. Science isn't about why, it's about why not? As noted last time, there's a strong correlation between people who are interested in science and people who like to start fires just to watch them burn.

Remember, he's the son of an alternate universe version of a man who built robots that had human emotions for the hell of it.

...Huh. A top-secret Navi developed with Human... something.

also, why the frick are there viruses in the top-secret lab's top-secret testing thingy?

Huh... Lan's dad has a picture of a family with more than one child? Interesting.

It's really freaking weird that .Exe doesn't actually get to Megaman until the sequels.

Aha! Scilab's does manufacture viruses. There must be "virus machines" hidden in an inaccessible part of every device they manufacture in order to drive up demand for combat programming and battle chips. That's also why Battle Chips have codes, to force you to buy multiple copies.

...So I can't help but feel like if you wanted to, you could have ground for zenny and maxed out on power-ups and health memories from a net merchant by now. That's honestly kind of a letdown when it comes to upgrades.

My God, Lan slept for a month?

MegaMan isn't just a computer, he's a computer programmed to have human-like intelligence and emotions. That means he has human flaws.

Why does the waterworks not have firewalls? Computers to monitor crap there make sense, but they should not be internet accessible.

Ms. Mari you don't need water to teach and if all the kids are in one place you can monitor them and make sure they don't overexert themselves and dehydrate faster. This is a bad plan.

Like, seriously, if you were gonna cancel a class you should have sent an email instead of waiting for everyone to show up.

Teaching is one of those jobs where they're mandatory unpaid overtime, so coffee is essential because they ain't getting no sleep.

The chip trader seems like a scam.

Why do viruses have types like Pokemon?

Higsby is clearly taking all the good chips out of the shipments for his own collection.

I can't help but think that, since all chips have a direct practical value, that the ten chips you traded, even though they're relatively common chips you got from virus busting, are probably collectively worth more than the one you got. Unless that chip is literally unique. Higsby is clearly reselling those chips you put in the machine at full mark up.

Bass.exe is more of a Megaman than Megaman.exe ever will be and that's fricking sad.

rule of thumb: If the water looks clean that's becuase nothing's living in it. In the case of a river... Maybe ask yourself _why_  nothing's living it. always boil and filter any scavenged water.

Okay, how does a computer thingy solve a clog?

...How is milk connected to water?

In the anime, there are certain locations, such as NetCity, where the use of battle chips is restricted or outright prohibited unless you have a special license as part of a Navi's code and Netbattling is strictly monitored. .exe's comment about Net-Cops being able to battle anywhere is probably a similar circumstance.

Lan is gonna do so much crime by the end of this game, you guys.

Gonna be honest, the ID cards working on any elevator is one hell of a security risk.

why does that water cooler look like a vending machine that dispenses cigarettes?

Actually, while I'm at it, they say to only smoke in the smoking sections in these buildings but there are no barriers between them and no sign of increased ventilation so there might as well not be a designated smoking section, everybody's breathing that crap in regardless.

Yeah, nobody asks any questions about why a kid is there. I guess they're just assuming you're up there with the guy you know is the rival becuase his design is meant to be cooler than yours.

Like, realistically Lan would be in so much trouble for interfering with what is effectively a police investigation. If an eleven-year-old can be a cop then an eleven-year-old can totally go to for-real jail for this kind of thing. Between that and all of the theft he's been committing... Yeah, Lan's kind of a not-good person.

Oh, finally, someone notices that a kid shouldn't be there...That looks like a Unique sprite, he's a WWW agent.

Big heal early on means you'll need them.

Why is the suction a program? Why isn't it just an analog pump? My god, these people are stupid.

And now you find out that the government complex is *haunted*.

Why is the water cooler connected to the internet!?

Look out Zodi, it's the ghost of a teenager!

No MegaMan, you're not going home, becuase that would be sensible.

...So, why didn't Lan just access the Net from his dad's terminal?

The name Protoman makes no goddamn sense in this context. In the classic series, Blues was the prototype for Rock and Roll, and through them literally every other Robot Master. And, by extension, X and the reploids. Go far enough and it even includes Volnutt and the Carbonshe is the ancestor of all synthetic life. So Protoman makes sense as a localized name.

Here? Here he's just a random guy. They should have just left his name Blues.

...Or, not. It's kind of weird to call him Blues considering that his default weapon is a sword and he has a long flowing mullet of power. He's clearly meant to be invoking Zero, so... why didn't Capcom just call him Zero? Then localization wouldn't have to saddle him with a name that makes no goddamn sense.

(I know there's a Zero in the spinoff games, but... Made after this.)

...did Chaud just threaten police brutality?

Yeah, he did.

And Lan has gone over 12 hours without water.

Ah crap, it's Pennywise. Told you this place was haunted, but it's worse than I thought.

...Wouldn't fireman be weak against fishy?

I guess it doesn't matter.

Zodi, when life gives you _lemons_ you make lemonade. When life gives you lemonade straight up, you find someone whose life is giving them vodka and have a party.

That was two viruses, MegaMan

Also, Lan is about to send MegaMan a chip I don't actually think you have.

So where the Hell is Chaud in all of this? Where's Blues? Shouldn't they have gotten here before you, they've had a significant head start.

Oh, hey, I think you made it worse? Though, admittedly, I don't think you can be blamed for people drinking the stuff. Thats obviously a bad idea

..how did Chuad get your number?

So, though... the river water isn't safe to drink, but it doesn't look like that. So... Is the bugged filtration system dumping pollutants back into the water?

Huh, the kid from ACDC town as last seen in ACDC town?

That's kind of a leap doncha think MegaMan? I mean, you're probably right but...

So in the anime, this scenario was backward: The kid's dad was kidnapped to make the kid do a bad thing.

To be fair Zodi, in the absence of evidence linking the two occurrences, the fact that the entire city has no water is a bigger deal than one missing kid. Needs of the many and all that.

In the anime, the kid had a unique design.

Ah, you mention it. And have a bit of a Froidian slip, methinks?

Why does Froid jr have that program?

I don't like that Pennywise isn't there when you come back.

Sponges are actually very patient.

You did it for the lawls Zodi... But no, that doesn't seem worth it.

Here we're dropping major lore in a weird way. Also, Chaud doesn't seem to be very good at his job, he seems like a shoot first ask questions never type.

There is literally no reason for this boss fight to happen. It's literally as simple as shouting "Your kid's safe!"

Wow, Iceman respawned fast after you done murdered him.

And Blues is about to be murdered by Pennywise.

Pennywise is partnered with the ghost teen!

...So I guess the internet is just magic in this universe? If there's literally a program to make water taste good?

Gotta show up that 11-year-old *actual Cop*.

So how come Yai didn't find the kid locked in the conspicuous car?

Are they failing, Dr. Wiley? It's been pretty clear that most of this is just a cover to steal specific super programs, and people seem more occupied with the cover than the real operations.

They're losing to the small child becuase the small child's NetNavi is a custom job designed by an industry insider whose job is literally to make more and more advanced NetNavi programs and PET hardware, who is the successor of the guy who invented the technology, and who apparently regularly updates MegaMan with bleeding-edge technology.

Lan is the kid who gets the new console a month before everyone else because his dad works at Nintendo. It's honestly kind of unfair for him to compete with other people, he's basically showing up to games of flashlight tag with a spot-light.

Lightbulb man is on some kind of drugs.

...Do Navis manually deliver the mail?

I'm, gonna guess that this is a "but thou must" situation and you're not actually allowed to tell Mayl to go alone.

----------


## Qwertystop

> It's kind of ****ed up that there's a PET bill. The PET contains thinking, feeling, sapient being. Even ignoring that you need a PET for everything and this basically means that once you're an adult you have to essentially pay a bill to a government-backed corporation just to exist and hey they basically are the economy...
> 
> Like... There's a spoiler thing that makes the idea of a PET being repossessed all kinds of horrifying.


Yes, but not any more messed up than non-free food, shelter, taxes, etc.





> ...So I can't help but feel like if you wanted to, you could have ground for zenny and maxed out on power-ups and health memories from a net merchant by now. That's honestly kind of a letdown when it comes to upgrades.


The way it works in the rest of the series, and probably also in this one, is: Each shop sells a specific fixed quantity of PowerUP and HPMemory, usually with a price increase for each successive one. The same is true for other permanent upgrades in later games. For other things, some are available for repeat purchase, while others (mostly chips you can't get from viruses, or specific codes where you can get other codes from viruses) are limited-quantity (usually one-of).




> The chip trader seems like a scam.


The chip trader serves as something to do with the large accumulation of junk you get from random encounters. It is more significant in later games, which have increasingly strict limits on how many copies of a particular chip you can have in your folder at once.




> I can't help but think that, since all chips have a direct practical value, that the ten chips you traded, even though they're relatively common chips you got from virus busting, are probably collectively worth more than the one you got. Unless that chip is literally unique. Higsby is clearly reselling those chips you put in the machine at full mark up.


Well, yes. Though a lot of them probably end up in his bargain bin. Though also note: assuming others run on the same chip-folder system as Lan and Mega, more copies of a weak chip are just clutter. And the ten-chip trader, at least in the later games, gives some really good stuff - not literally unique, but navi chips you'd otherwise have to beat a ghost for.




> Okay, how does a computer thingy solve a clog?
> 
> ...How is milk connected to water?


Filtration, cleaning, and pipe-clearing system. Though in this case the clog seems to be ice, so also temperature control systems.

Baby formula, which is a powder added to water for a milk substitute. You don't feed an infant cow's milk. Well, you can, but it's not as good for them. Alternately, mom is too dehydrated to breast-feed. 




> Big heal early on means you'll need them.


In this game, damage doesn't persist between battles. As such, heals are almost always almost completely useless, because there's no attrition to deal with and most encounters are not a serious threat. This is changed in future games.




> Why is the suction a program? Why isn't it just an analog pump? My god, these people are stupid.


Something needs to run the motor.




> Wow, Iceman respawned fast after you done murdered him.


The implication for this, all the GutsMan battles, and any other friendly battle, is that you don't actually delete them, just bring them to a point of being no longer combat-ready. In the anime this is distinguished by some fights ending in a "log out" effect and others in a "deleted" effect.

----------


## Rater202

> Yes, but not any more messed up than non-free food, shelter, taxes, etc.


*Spoiler: Major spoilers*
Show

Ignoring the fact that NetNavis seem to be people and therefore having to pay a bill to keep access to them is quite literally equivalent to holding them for ransom, when Lan grows up he's going to have to pay a bill to keep his actual _literal_  twin brother from being repossessed.


Regarding the chip trader...

I mean, it serves a purpose in-game, but as a facet of the setting, it's a scam.

So, in thanks for rescuing his kid, the guy from the water treatment plan pulled some strings to get you on a police mailing list to get the inside tips despite flat out saying that's not allowed.

Lan is just collecting questionably legal advantage now, isn't he? You know, in addition to all the theft.

The old man is an example of how phony psychics work. Lan is probably a well-known figure in his hometown by now: He goes around town helping people, he's the grandson of the guy who invented the technology that their entire culture and economy runs on, and he's gotten invovled in four WWW incidents, two of which were respectively targetting his family and his school specifically. There's essentially a target on his back, and even if there isn't, he's the kind of person to get invovled in any issues or errands that pop up.

So, on any given day, it's likely that he's going to get invovled in trouble.

slightly over 50% of people are AFAB, so since this is an early 2000s game, that's simplified to just over half the population are women so if the trouble is caused by a random stranger the odds are slightly better than a coinflip that it would be a woman by the understanding of sex, gender, and so on that was mainstream when this was made.

If it's not a random stranger, well, if Lan is a public figure it might not be unlikely that a general idea of his circle of friends exists... In addition to Lan himself, we have Dex... Who is mostly just boisterous but otherwise seems passive, and Yai and Mayl who are both rather dominant personality types. If Lan doesn't wander into trouble by himself, it'd likely be becuase Mayl or Yai talked him into it. So if the trouble is caused by a peer, odds are better than 2/3s.

The main authority figures in his life are his mother and Ms. Mari, so if the trouble is caused by the actions of someone with power over him, it would probably be one of them.

And let's not forget that "a woman will cause you problems today" is a very vague statement all things considered. Define "woman"? Define "problem?"

If we assume "grandson of Dr. Light who goes around town helping people and has foiled four terrorist plots in the last two months" is decently well known by now, anyone who keeps their ears to the ground could probably look at him, guess "a woman will cause you problems today," and odds are good that *something* that could match that phrase will happen on any given day.

Then it happens, and Lan, being 11, will be like "oh, that old man predicted the future!"

It's incredibly messed up that a girl who looks to be five asked that question, and shame on you for answering that way Zodi.

...It's even more messed up that if you answer the other way she asks you specifically to wipe WWW out. Which I guess answers the question of if Lan is known in this town.

Regarding the Paradox of Lan being acknowledged in this game but not in later games, I did some reading about the series and apparently one of the later games implies that Chaud ends up getting credit for a lot of the stuff Lan did.

Gutsman is like a digital Saiyan, every time he almost gets deleted he gets stronger. It's just that Megaman is so much better than Gutsman because of Lan's privileged status that it's gonna take Mega almost murdering Gutsman a few hundred more times before they're even close, and MEgaMan's own power skyrockets on the regular.

Gutsman is the Vegeta of NetNavis, is what I'm saying.

Back to cold reading: If nothing else happened today, this here sequence with Mayl could be taken as Mayl causing a problem for Lan. That's how it works, you make a vague statement that almost anything could apply to.

That E-Mail seemed more like a half-assed PSA than something the internet cops would be sending each other.

Mayl just keeps giving away Roll... Is there a Roll3 and a program advance if you use all 3 in numerical order?

It's nice that the crosswalks have visible barriers. Much safer than what we have in the real world: A few years ago I had to cross the street to get to one class and you would not beleive the number of times people would just drive right through the crosswalk while the light was on. Saw a girl almost get hit once.

So it's not "Now Print", it's "Print Sometime in The Future"

Nice that Chaud leaves to the part about him threatening police brutality and that Lan did Chaud's job better than he did. And that IceMan was being blackmailed.

No, sir. If the Net Gets dominated _nowhere_ is safe. BEcuase literally everything is connected to the net for some reason.

Why would Mari talk about one specific student to her sister? Also, what a weird question to put in this game.

There seems to be no meaningful difference between Roll and Roll2.

...Viruses can be reformed into other programs?

Self-driving cars are one thing, but here I get the feeling that he's saying that all cars are run on the _same_ autopilot system.

So, this technology was invented two generations ago. Either that vase is a decorative prop or someone altered it. Otherwise, it can't possibly be old enough to be an antique.

Okay, so it's not actually an antique vase.

Huh, a supposed medium claims that MegaMan has a powerful spirit. Probably just more phony baloney psychic stuff, but we did establish already that ghosts exist.

"Your spirits shall become as one" would have been an interesting foreshadowing if it didn't turn out that the "Internet is leaking into the real world, human and navi fuse to deal with it" thing was made up for the Anime. The coolest part was never in the games.

Seriously, every time I think about this subseries the first thing that pops into my head is the phrase "Lan turned into MegaMan" being said with a mixture of quiet shock and the dawning realization of how fracking cool that was.

Those two cars crashed and just fricking vaporized each other. Are these things nuclear-powered? Lan had better talk to his mom about getting him into a doctor to check for radiation poisoning after this.

The ghost teen is running a protection racket now! And I bet that program just makes it worse.

MegaMan likes to state the obvious I'm noticing.

Considering that the traffic signals have jack-in ports, I'm gonna assume that the "this time" is becuase teenaged punks temper with the system all the time and people just patch their cars to work with the buggy system instead of fixing the infrastructural problem.

...Why would... They're self-driving cars.  That... That precludes the need for a license right?

Isn't Firetower F the one the kid wants to trade for?

Likewise, escape isn't worthless becuase it's part of the set the old guy will trade for.

Oh my god, this is the dumbest misunderstanding of how computers work since Venom and Carnage were established to be able to travel through phone lines and the Internet.

Yes, "car blood." Oh, frick, uh... I remember there was this show I used to watch when I was really little. It was live-action scenes, but then the guys would turn their fingers into car keys and slide into the ignition of their cars and ti would cut to CGI scenes of them as car robots and the bad guys were vampires that drank gasoline instead of blood... Like, this was in the Reboot era of CGI cartoons, too... God damn it, what was the name?

Save Zodi, save before you lose the fire sword again.

Is there a jack in port in the bus? Roll's pretty badass when you use the chip duplicate as her, so like, Mayl could probably be dealing with the virus in the bus while Lan fixes the signals.

...I'm guessing that Dynawave is part of a strong program advance?

Oh, Mayl did do the thing. Unfortunately, Roll got worfed.

Oh, that's an awkward position for Pennywise to have Roll in. Like, she's clearly coded, pun not intended, as being a kid, so... Yeah. MegaMan, hurry up and destroy that monster. And then eat his data so he can't come back as an infinite number of ghosts like FireMan did.

Oh, those inflatable clowns that you can knock down but they keep getting up. I'm guessing that the gimmick is they can't be damaged? Okay, yeah.

I notice that the polka dots on Pennywise's ball vanish when he's not on it.

He's not stuttering Zodi, C-c-c-count Zap is his name.

Legends reference.

Yay, Lan gets to see his Dad for the first time in over two months at the very least!

I'm guessing Froid's gonna give you an IceMan chip?

----------


## LaZodiac

Oh hey, time for more this!
*
Zodi Streams: Mega Man Battle Network [3] Pay Off*

*Video Length: 3:54:41*

In this episode, we get involved with Count Zapp, and then... well.

You'll see.

----------


## Rater202

Bit late getting to this. Was working on my writing and then I needed to attend to my pesky need to enter a state of unconsciousness where I am near death for several hours a day.

And no one dies in this game except for programs and all the people whose self-driving cars ****ing exploded when they crashed into each other because this world runs on the worst possible form of an always-online future.

Okay, I'm normally pro-tec but seriously, everything bad that happens in this series is a logical consequence of Dr. Hikari and his successors making a bunch of really stupid decisions with their internet and AI research.

...Well, that and the internet being a parallel dimension and also magic. This is a dystopian cyberpunk setting with a cute paint job.

Still on my list of places to hide out and cultivate power if I become a multiversal traveler though. Especially since I remembered the "symbiotes can physically enter the internet thing" so it works with my primary "become a dragon plan." Just slithers through the jack-in port in the sink in a public restroom and bind offshoots of myself to viruses and rouge netnavis and then reabsorb it later in order to gain information that could be used to further my adaption. Become a partially digital being becuase at this point I'm already a horrific eldritch monstrosity so why not go for broke?

Maybe you should have sonic waves of different codes? That's how program advances work, right?

Dex has never been to a party? That's sad. Better get his hopes up and then crush them.

...And you just leave for the party without telling your Mom. Rude.

Or not.

Gasp! It's the legendary secret agent Commander Beef in his secret identity as a humble sushi salesman. He'll deny it of course, but the only thing he does to discuss his identity while on the job is put on a helmet.

Youkai, with a handful of exceptions, are most analogous to ghosts and/or fairies.

In the Anime, he pretends to be completly ignorant of internet stuff and IIRC sounds a bit like Forest Gump in the English dub. "I imagine it's gonna come down to whoever has the most calcium," he says while watching a netbattle. But then he's a secret agent working as an elite member of the net police.

Shark Man is yet another example of NetNavis just having kind of bull**** powers without needing to use battle chips.

Too bad you don't have any Elec chips.

Is there a Shark Man chip? Becuase I think it'd be beneficial if you could whip this guy out and sick him on your enemies... Then again, difficult bosses that join the party later always kinda suck in comparison.

Everybody wants to be a kid again, random scientist.

What the old man is saying is that he's a trillionaire and his taxes alone literally paid for the whole building.

Oh no, a generic Navi recolored purple who turns into three viruses upon entering combat!

Yeah, Lan is kind of a bad kid.

Is repair another kind of recovery?

It seems that in this universe, Cocacola lost its monopoly on coca and kola-based soda and their competitors don't bother to filter out the cocaine.

Lan's just been running around with his Dad's ID.

Yeah Froid, just give the preteen unrestricted access to the dark web.

Think of it this way, Zodi, the currents of the water as it's drawn out and then returned to the plant for treatment can be used to generate hydroelectric power. Reclaim some of the energy used to supply the town with water.

Lan, the appropriate response was "I'm meeting my dad, he works here."

Megaman alternates between calling Doctor Hikari "Dad" and "your dad." I find that notable.

Lan's parents have been a bit strained ever since Mom Hikari found out about Dad Hikari's secret another family. You know, the one he as that photo of on his desk.

That's a very inefficient power planet, unless they're like, getting shipments of garbage from elsewhere to burn or its multiple kinds of plant. Like, there's a nuclear reactor but it's also taking in hydroelectric power from the surrounding water and stuff.

Didn't they say this was a river a little bit ago? This is a fricking deep river.

Lan just jacks into the display models of the latest PETs... Well, at least they're green.

You'd think there'd be at least a generic Navi in here.

In middle school, my science book one year talked about how people used to believe that some animals just spontaneously generated under the right circumstances and gave a recipe for conjuring rats that some people used to beleive. All I remember is that one of the ingredients was "old underwear."

Chaud is a bad cop. All he does is threaten you. I mean, realistically you'd be in trouble for interfering in his investigation but you'd think he'd have arrested you if that was how it went in real life.

I think that's how it is everywhere, regarding bathrooms in supermarkets.

But yes. If you run around wearing a saffron kilt over a power rangers cosplay, everyone will know you don't belong.

No, tha't s turkey. Too big to be chicken and... Are these lemons on the skin?

Dad Hikari, is the fancy party really the best time or place to reveal that you murdered someone and used an upload of their human brain to make MegaMan?

And hey, explicit confirmation that Lan and MegaMan have exclusive bleeding-edge tech. Gutsman will never defeat MegaMan because MegaMan is just inherently better.

The foreign speaker is literally a supervillain. He doesn't even try to bury the lead or hide the fact that he's bat**** insane.

What's stopping Count Cuckoo for Cocopuffs from also suffocating?

This is what Dad Hikari was going to tell you, Lan: He plucked out your human eyes to use them to make MegaMan when you were a kid, so he replaced them with cyber-eyes that adjust to dark really easy.

...Time to save the day by jumping to your death into an incinerator.

So why isn't Chaud doing any of this? This is kind of literally his job.

So if that's how it works how can there be independent Navis... And all of those fricking ghosts?

"You're a great operator, Lan... Also, I'm literally the best NetNavi in existence. Netbattling with me is like showing up to play Laser tag with an actual gun."

...The last level had a place you could go where regular programs outright state they used to be viruses. But they can't fix a tampered program?

Also, it'd be hilarious if that program attacked you right after saying that.

Look, a chip that by all means should be unique becuase how often are you going to find programs tampered with by the WWW outside of this one computer? Like, realistically the Ring Zap chips shouldn't exist outside of this computer and they should go away once Lan fixes everything.

They're not good chips so you say, but if Lan was shrewd he could probably trade them for some decent chips or just sell them for cash, these chips are realistically the only ones of their kind in the world unless someone copies the chip data so like, worth a pretty penny to collectors.

...You'd think the battery boxes would be labeled.

The answer to life, the universe, and everything is, of course, lemon bread. Which more of a pound cake than bread, to be honest.

This last corrupted program is just tragic.

Elecman is kinda bull**** in this game. All Navi's are electrical so... How?

MegaMan, when you delete him make sure to assimilate his data into your own code like any rational person would do in this situation.

So Basically Chaud's plan was to risk a dozen lives needlessly to capture a criminal, and no when a good samaritan gets involved he wants to just ****ing murder them...

Chaud was a better character in the anime. Delete his Navi and assimilate the remaining data to get stronger.

And, as I noted last time... Chaud apparently keeps getting credit for stuff Lan does, so...

Zodi, I took that to mean that *Protoman* can carry his own chip data instead of having to have Chaud send it every time.

Now granted, Proman doesn't seem to _use_ any chips so it's a moot point.

"We come this far together because we fight as a team... And also becuase I'm a bleeding edge Navi literally a decade ahead of the curb made by the son of the guy who invented us and I'm based in a unique PET not available to the public. Lan's Dad is a mad scientist that works for SciLabs. I'm pretty sure we could have your operator assassinated for this crap he keeps pulling and nobody would bat an eye.

"Also, Lan's Dad did _something_ involving Making Navis out of human _something_ so I *might* be an abomination against the laws of man and God."

...You're not drinkable... _yet?_ I have questions.

Not the personal ones but... That's weird phrasing.

All that food at the party is just gonna go to waste.

You joined the terrorist organization because you're the ghost of a teenager.

I like to think that MegaMan and Roll started dating and are pushing Lan and Mayl together.

Oh, that's what the thing is... It's a classic series crossover. They can't tell robots from Navis.

...Yeah, no, I know what this is. I figured it out when I was doing some reading about this sub-franchise and it was pointed out that the remake put some stuff that was weird in the first game back in line with the sequels.

And you know this just proves my point further up vis a vis existing in the internet. Certain meatspace beings can just live in the Internet.

I'd note that that other Megaman doesn't actually look like .EXE at all beyond some very superficial stuff.

This scenario is the BattleNetwork timeline's equivalent of that episode of the Ruby Spear's MegaMan cartoon where X comes back in time for some reason.

And so we fight a human fused with an alien energy being from 200 years in the future using more advanced versions of the tech megaman runs on.

...Oh, Hell, this is Star Fore 3 Geo, isn't it? I didn't think Omega Xis could exist separate from Go while Geo was MegaMan until then... Yeah, that Buster looks like a gun barrel, not Omega's head.

And he seems to be using Battle Cards. You know, Battle Chips that don't suck that people have even though nobody has a personal Navi anymore. Or he just has more powers than MegaMan.Exe does.

Megaman just defeated a what is effectively a better version of himself in a fair fight. MegaMan is best Navi. *No Absorn Your successor to become Immortal, MegaMan! Achieve your destiny*

So I was literally just looking up some Star Force Stuff today, unless there are some serious time skips, Geo is one-year younger than Lan is at this point in time.

..wait, no, I thought... I'm confused about timeline stuff.

So is Geo just taking MegaMan's place for a bit?

And Lan, you already know he can jump into computers.

Ah, Mega thinks that Lan has a seven-and-a-half-head.

Yeah, StarForce just doubles and then triples down on the "Internet is MAgic" stuff, doesn't it?

"Oh my god, the legendary hero is a fricking dork."

You know what would be nice? A game where all the MegaMen teamed up to save Volnutt from his orbiting lunar prison.

Swords are cool.

Comic Book Trivia: There's an offshoot of Klyntar Symbiotes that somehow evolved to be made of EM waves instead of darkness. Somehow. Basically exactly like the AMians and FMians.

Mavis "Payback" Trent and her symbiote are the only known example though.

So wait, you just... Can Permanently use Geo in place of your normal MegaMan? Does he just decide "eh, the timeline's irreparably damaged at this point, might as well hang out for a bit?" I mean, I was kind of expecting like, an Omega Xis Navi chip or something, not... This.

Lots of Padding for this scenario. I'm getting Zelda flashbacks.

I'm glad the "nobody has clocks anymore" prediction didn't come true though.

...So is the rest of this scenario going to be "Lan, .Exe, Geo, and Omega Xis being brothers for an hour?"

Oh My God... Geo is so used to being able to treat injuries quickly with his miracle medicine that he doesn't understand how serious injuries are and thinks that minor scrapes are a big deal. So Lan just shrugging one-off impresses him, that's hilarious.

Going by the Star Force Anime, it's pronounced "Omega Sis." So yeah, you're pronouncing it correctly.

If you'd prefer, his Japanese Name is War Rock.

Knight asking the question I asked last week.

...do Fireman's infinite ghosts still exist in the Net in the Star Force timeline?

I see that the summon Girlfriend spell works even if she's someone else's girlfriend.

So this implies that Geo goes to the same school as Lan 200 years later. I don't think that's true, but...

Does 4 have a New Game Plus or is it just bad?

...ClockMan _does_ kind of look like The World a little bit.

So that answers my questions about ghosts on the Internet... Unless the data from the Net was transferred over.

Zodi if you choose the Prez you get saddled with her minions.

Also, she kind of kept trying to drag him to physically attend the school despite the fact that distance learning was working perfectly fine for him.

"No, you _must_ be a traditional student radaradarada!"

"He's a copy of me to be friend with since the real me can't be here."

Now, the question is... How good are these chips?

Like... Thse are Navi Chips for a Navi from 200 years int eh future that can manipulate the fabric of space-time _in the real world_ and a guy who isn't technically a NAvi but is effectively an all-around Better MegaMan... Who is the best Navi in the world except for Bass.Exe.

These should be some pretty frickin OP chips... That nobody else in the world has access to.

Seriously, Lan having access to those should in and of itself irrevocably change history.

MegaMan, Chaud risked the lives of everyone who works at SciLabs and then go pissed off and tried to murder you for being a good Samaritan. He's kind of not a good person.

And apparently the fake program he made to distract Wiley still works for Wiley's plan.

I note that he says _four_ programs. We've only seen 3. What's the fourth?

Okay, seriously... Geo and Mega Xis literally cloned themselves and left the copies behind to Hang out with Lan... And the clones are treated as if they're the same people.

Jesus christ how does this not change the timeline. I think that someone is going to notice that Lan has two MEgaMen now.

Lan has *all* of the Unfair Advantages now.

So the inside of Lan's PEt is basically a luxury penthouse apartment? God Damn it I want to be a NetNavi now.

Okay, those are some pretty good chips.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Mega Man Thoughts


... the idea of "someone who just shaves off bits of themselves to power up people, for the express purpose of gathering information from them to take for later" is a brilliant idea I'm stealing for something. No idea what, but I definitely am.

The program advances involving the Wave series of cards require the basic wave, which isn't worth it... and lets you use random power waves for 6/9 times depending on which of the two types of advances you do. They are not worth it in the slightest due to that variance- and truthfully program advances aren't worth it in the first game at all- and may even not be worth it in general, really.

Sharkman has a chip and it's actually quite good, it is just tricky to obtain cause he is a tough boss.

Repair fixes broken tiles on your field. It's pointless in any non multiplayer context.

Right I forgot his name is literally WAR MEGAMAN, effectively, in the Japanese. God I love Omega-Xis so much.

Four has new game plus AND is just bad. The game is randomly seeded tournaments, and not all unlockables (read; soul unions) are fought in one run. You only get two or three per run, and there are seven to get! As well, each time you start new game plus, everyone upgrades... which is to say, for all of that first run, you're fighting at most V1 viruses, with no V2's or 3's at all pretty much.

Having minions is okay.

I'm conflicted because on the one hand distance learning is vitally important and good... but if he hadn't gone to physical school he'd never have made friends and probably would have stayed a shut in his whole life. There is something to this "interact with others" thing.

Fire was stolen from our oven, Ice was stolen from the water works, Elec was stolen from the power plant, and the Bus element was stolen from that one bus.

(More seriously, while Madd was trying to assassinate Lan and his girlfriend, Yahoot robbed a nature preserve that had the Grass program or something. Wood element just doesn't exist yet so they can't show it)

----------


## Qwertystop

> The program advances involving the Wave series of cards require the basic wave, which isn't worth it... and lets you use random power waves for 6/9 times depending on which of the two types of advances you do. They are not worth it in the slightest due to that variance- and truthfully program advances aren't worth it in the first game at all- and may even not be worth it in general, really.


There's definitely at least one PA that's worth it in 2 (Gater breaks the game wide open), and several that are good in competitive play in 6. Also, several of them are good ways to get big single-hit attacks with large AOEs, which is important for the few bosses and enemies with an Aura (blocks all damage, breaks on a hit from any single attack that does enough damage) in several games, and a whole series of postgame puzzle-fights in 2 and 3. And starting in 3 they're also just pretty cool.

----------


## DataNinja

I don't have much in the way of thoughts, but, hey, I am _super_ glad to see the Star Force stuff.

...even if, wow, this is _terrible_ in the way of backtracking. Though, uh, are their other jack-in ports you could have used to get onto the internet closer to your destination?

So... Cyber Cores are the Star Force term (at least in 3) for the devices you enter. It's why the names will be abbreviated "<name> CC". There's your random trivia for the day.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rater202

> ... the idea of "someone who just shaves off bits of themselves to power up people, for the express purpose of gathering information from them to take for later" is a brilliant idea I'm stealing for something. No idea what, but I definitely am.


For fairness's sake, it's not an original idea. Absolute Carnage had Carnage bonding offshoots of his symbiote to pigeons, squirrels, hmeless people, mental patients and ultimately Miles Morales and Captain Marvel's cat to gain minions. With the intent to kill his minions later, reabsorb the symbiotes born from the offshoot, and eat them to gain the codices they'd develop from being symbiote bonded.

By extension, pretty much every symbiote is ultimately an extension of Knull, even if most of them hate him, and the people taken over by the symbiotes under his control in King in Black were referred to as having been Knullified.

Incidentally, between Absolute Carnage and King in Black, most of the population of New York has been possessed by a least one symbiote.

Moving away from Marvel... It's basically how Quincy work in Bleach. Yhwach grants Quincy powers and/or a unique Schrift to people which then gets passed onto their descendants... By imbuing them with a portion of his soul, which he's eventually going to take back, possibly with interest, in order to keep himself alive and not blind, deaf, lame, and mute.So... Something I'm curious about...

does Bass.exe still exist by the time of the events of StarForce?*Spoiler*
Show

Bass.exe's gimmick is that he has the ultra-rare "Get Ability" ability, which lets him upgrade himself infinitely by copying data from... Anything. Viruses, other netnavis, regular programs, battle chips, stray data packets and then repurpose what he copies to enhance himself.

Basically, doing what MegaMan is supposed to be able to do in a game where MegaMan can't.

Bass ha been doing this for so long that he's less of an Independent Net Navi and more of a unique Net Godthe thoughts of people trying to recreate his power were just "let's get a hell of a lot of viruses and programs and smush them together until they fuse" and Bass begirded, tamed, and fused with the monstrosity that was born from this.

And in the Third StarForce game, they introduce Wizards, who are "NetNavis but better in every conceivable way" which includes being able to exist in physical space as energy beings.

And this game flat out says that the EM Road tech and Internet Tech is basically the same, so if Bass was able to transfer over from the Old Net to the Em Roads(and, I mean, you think they'd have transferred over as much data as posisble or repurposed old servers when they could...) then he could theoretically copy data from a Wizard Program and then he'd be able to... Just exist.

Considering that his sole goal is"singlehandedly cause the existing of the human race in revenge for being made a scapegoat and almost deleted without investigation or due process when the prototype for the Internet turned into an eldritch abomination" that would be bad.

..Actually, now that I think about it: Across the Battle Network series it's pretty firmly established that everything there's either a problem with the Internet or they make significant improvements to the tech hat they seal away the old one and build a new one on top. You're playing in the third Internet right now.

So... Like, the Net that Bass exists in is probably a couple of layers below the EM roads.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Raziere Catches up with MegaZodi:*
I'm going to watching the first parts of both of the streams I showed up later at so this will take a while

Stream 1:
My net navi would be one that would have to okay with playing dress up because my avatar is any indication, I'd want to constantly fiddle with its appearance or update its look, so something like, called Morph-Girl or whatever.

my two zodiacs are Gemini and Rooster. though technically its Water Rooster, the element matters due to how the eastern zodiac works on this year long cycle so a rooster born in one cycle isn't the same reading as one born in mine. I guess that means I'm two ducks.

clearly its secret tools to play internet with soccer and soccer with the internet. not virtual soccer, actual soccer using the internet. so he can use soccer to use the internet to play more soccer, so he can play soccer while he plays soccer and with THAT soccer to play the internet! He likes both so he found a way to play soccer-internet while playing soccer internet! 

There were five other games of this?

not gonna lie, the E's in the background are giving me Hypnospace Outlaw vibes. 

Don't worry zodi! The internet has been designed to be immune to fire, all the electronic AI are perfectly safe. Who cares about the humans lives?

Megaman knows this because he secretly IS W3! he thinks that by playing double agent he can earn freedom from an 11 year old's assistant either by collaborating with W3 then turning around and playing hero to earn his freedom on the other side, how devious.

......Yai has a skinned pikachu rug. she is an incredibly twisted kind of pokemon fan. its like saying she wants to be in the pokemon universe just so she kill pokemon, skin their hides and decorate her house with trophies of them. *shudder*

Stream 2:
Dr. Hikari: I gave them emotions and life because I want to watch the world burn my son. AI will someday take over, and I must be their willing servant to allow them to. Dr. Wily is a fool thinking he can control the world, because I'm working for my overlords, the AIs themselves who will soon become so powerful and intelligent they will rule us and do better than lowly humanity like Wily ever could! Because I hate being human, son! Are not, these AI a more ideal existence!? Should they not experiment with their lives to surpass us in every endeavor? I will gladly give my LIFE if it means a superior way of life like net navis dominates the world! Let humanity die so that AI can rise!

AI: it uses human hearts and souls! we feed on them! 

A network that works with Stands would be interesting, however it would run into problems in one particular aspect: Stand distance. see one of the major tradeoffs I've noticed in many stands is their power is inverse to how far away they can go from their user. a weak stand is often very long range, while a strong stand with a cool power is often only has a range of a couple meters at most. thing is, if a Stand is _required_ to be close range to function as that stand, then a network like that wouldn't be able to work because the stand wouldn't be able to get real far on said network, but if its just a _limitation_ that could be worked on to surpass, that suddenly makes weaker longer range stands less viable and useful because you could potentially set it up so that stronger stands don't have to worry about range. so if it works, it would be a gamechanger for Stand combat in Jojo-world, because strong stands that have to remain within a couple meters of the user would no longer have that limitation.

Well technically, the water could disappear from that pond if the water is meant to be kept flowing in and out. you shut off the water flowing in but not the water flow out, and you have no water in the pond. now _why_ would people want water constantly flowing in and out of a pond, that I don't know. 

okay the lack of other drinks is just ridiculous. don't they have like.....a grocery store for this? is the drink aisle at the grocery store shut off in a such a way that no one can get to it? why require computers to be able to pick up like, a can of soda?

Zodi: "we shouldn't let this dreamy two-toned man make us thirsty"
Takei: "Ooooooh myyyy....."

because ever since Portal 2, the "have lemons make lemonade" has been joked on due to Cave Johnson proclaiming that he'd rather screw the lemons and burn them and such.

Stream 3:
You don't have any buildings taller than ten stories? huh, well I can imagine it, kind of. I live near Seattle and there are a few skyscrapers there. buildings I can see from...what? 16 miles away? a 30 story building would be 330-360 feet about. so imagine tunneling 330 feet under the ground at least. now I'm imagining Space Needle going down into the Earth. 

aw yeah, Franceska Von Karma is also one of my favorite characters from that.  

popularity plays a factor in how good a guide is. you generally get pretty good and comprehensive guides for anything popular or well known. but if you go play an indie game, good luck finding any directions at all. I didn't even remember this game existed until Zodi started playing it and I was someone who bought it. I think I could make a good case for this game just being that forgettable: much as we make jokes about how ridiculous this world is, the MMBN world is all things considered a bit bland and not at all well world-built, as evidenced by npcs with the same few sprites, sparse looking backgrounds that are basically generic anime modern high school setting, its poorly handled hacking and internet parts, subpar side characters like forehead girl or the frogman. oh and tihs dumb forced friendship thing.

Zodi: we aren't playing the original game
Me: *GAAAAAAAAAASP*........anyways

and now its a for a near-mirror match! fight his stand with your own stand: Roll.

I mean I technically played this game....I just didn't play much of it, so its not as if I could ever point out any inconsistencies, and yeah its been forever so I'd never be able to tell that this is a remake because I never got into the franchise much in general. 

speak of the Flameman and he appears....

thing is EVERY time travel thing going back to past gives the same warning about tampering with the past because.....how would anyone KNOW that is how time travel works? they're pretty much giving the advice to be cautious because there is no actual way to test for time travel rules in a safe manner. 

"she a pop idol this is tuesday for her"-Zodi
getting kidnapped by a time-traveling robot to be used as a museum display is tuesday for future pop idols.....? I guess that kind of makes sense. 

well of course your not scared of his rare chips, you have one FROM THE FUTURE. thats as rare as something can possibly get! there is no way he can compete with that.

sign that your Dad doesn't know anything about your life #235: He mistakes one of your enemies he saw you fighting with once for a friend you hang out with.

----------


## LaZodiac

They imply Miss Madd went around Dencity literally purchasing every drink available so that's part of why this drought plan is even remotely working... and their budget issues, to be frank.

The Battle Network games get progressively, substantially better with each successive entry. Even the bad ones are probably... at least on par with the first one at its best.

The joke of "if life gives you lemons, burn their house down with the lemons" comes from the fact that the normal phrase is... well, make lemonade. Or in his moon dust poisoned brain, Lemon-ade, a combo of lemon and grenade. It's honestly quite clever and funny.

Given Sonia is bonded with an alien warrior made of radio waves, and she uses her sonic death beams to play pop music, I'd say "brief kidnapping through time" is a pretty average concern all things being told.

What's really funny is that these two future chips... work more functionally like chips in future games, as opposed to how the first game does. It's cute.

----------


## Rater202

> What's really funny is that these two future chips... work more functionally like chips in future games, as opposed to how the first game does. It's cute.


I'm gonna be honest that probably got more to do with them being made after some of the future games than anything deliberate.

Like from what I've read they did their best to make the remake as much like th elater games as possible without having to remake it completly.

Though, seriously... Doesn't... Letting Lan keep those chips, let alone giving him a copy of Geo and Omega as a second NEtNavi... Inherently change the timeline

The best case scenario is that Clockman created a parallel timeline.

----------


## Qwertystop

> They imply Miss Madd went around Dencity literally purchasing every drink available so that's part of why this drought plan is even remotely working... and their budget issues, to be frank.
> 
> The Battle Network games get progressively, substantially better with each successive entry. Even the bad ones are probably... at least on par with the first one at its best.
> 
> The joke of "if life gives you lemons, burn their house down with the lemons" comes from the fact that the normal phrase is... well, make lemonade. Or in his moon dust poisoned brain, Lemon-ade, a combo of lemon and grenade. It's honestly quite clever and funny.
> 
> Given Sonia is bonded with an alien warrior made of radio waves, and she uses her sonic death beams to play pop music, I'd say "brief kidnapping through time" is a pretty average concern all things being told.
> 
> What's really funny is that these two future chips... work more functionally like chips in future games, as opposed to how the first game does. It's cute.


Correction: The Battle Network games get progressively, substantially better with each successive entry, _except for 4_. I am uncertain whether 4 is worse than 1  it's an extreme swerve in mechanics and tone for the series that never really gets undone, to the extent that the series can really be split very neatly into "1-3" and "4-6" on several metrics, and the ways in which it is bad are extremely different from the ways in which 1 is bad. Similarly, opinions vary widely on the quality of 5. But I _certainly_ do not support any rule that says MMBN4 is better than 3.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I'm gonna be honest that probably got more to do with them being made after some of the future games than anything deliberate.
> 
> Like from what I've read they did their best to make the remake as much like th elater games as possible without having to remake it completly.
> 
> Though, seriously... Doesn't... Letting Lan keep those chips, let alone giving him a copy of Geo and Omega as a second NEtNavi... Inherently change the timeline
> 
> The best case scenario is that Clockman created a parallel timeline.


True, true. Likely not intentional, but the effect remains the same. It's neat!




> Correction: The Battle Network games get progressively, substantially better with each successive entry, _except for 4_. I am uncertain whether 4 is worse than 1  it's an extreme swerve in mechanics and tone for the series that never really gets undone, to the extent that the series can really be split very neatly into "1-3" and "4-6" on several metrics, and the ways in which it is bad are extremely different from the ways in which 1 is bad. Similarly, opinions vary widely on the quality of 5. But I _certainly_ do not support any rule that says MMBN4 is better than 3.


Okay yeah no you're right, 100%. I keep on forgetting how miserable a time BN4 is.

----------


## Rater202

So I've done a spot more digging.

It's not super relevant right now, but since you did comment on it on your Psychonauts 2 stream: Tim Schafer, the head guy for Psychonauts and its sequels, was asked as part of a Q&A about the lamp in Sasha's lab.

The Lamp in his office is an authentic Tiffany Lamp.

The lamps in his training scenario were cheaply made knock-offs

----------


## LaZodiac

First stream of the year!

*Zodi Streams: Mega Man Battle Network [4] Battery Powered Soul Brother*

*Video Length: 4:37:52*

In this episode, we flail around on the internet trying to find out where to go, finally manage it, and then blast our way into the finale! Some great stuff happens, amazingly silly reveals and plot moments, and we fight a rabbit wizard so that's always fun.

------

On the topic of Important Things; I will endeavor to get stuff started up again this week. I'm sorry it's taken so long, but I needed the break.

----------


## Rater202

Liminal Spaces are fun. There are no rules when you are both living and dead, both here and there, everywhere and nowhere, forever and never. Reject humanity, be eternal!

Yeah! Let's **** up the timeline more by having a permanent copy of Geo and Omegaxis just chilling with you! And Also the MegaMan SF and Clockman battle chips.

Again, old man. If you feel the need to prove that you're not senile you might be a touch senile.

Chaud isn't just posting in the secret net police thing that he hates you... He's actively tried to murder you for being a good samaritan.

And he was willing to let people die as part of a sting operation.

Chaud in this game is a bad person.

And you don't need him becuase you have Geo.

Sal: "NAture is telling me there will be a huge crisis soon. It can do that ever since it was hooked up to the Internet. I follow nature on Instagram."

There it is! This, the "you can't win a fight if you don't get enough calcium" is basically Masa's entire character in the anime. That and pretending he doesn't understand the internet so that nobody will suspect that he's secretly Commander Beef, Superhero and head of an elite Squad of the net Police.

Even though he acts exactly the same and only wears a helmet to disguise himself.

...I'm pretty sure that Sharkman has hands in the Anime.

So apparently a War Broke out offscreen what the hell this world is a craphole.

I just want the people you're battling to realize that this is a different Megaman.

Chaud... You note that Lan's basically been doing your job for you, right? Without deliberately putting people's lives at risk.

Froid junior and Ice Man looking alike also would have been foreshadowing.

I'm pretty sure that the ghosts are how you refight them, Zodi.

Zodi, I think by now it should be clear that the internet is a magical parallel dimension.

..Would superhero-themed metal bands be Heavy Vibranium?

Zodi, Chaud is *very* bad at his job.

...Which you then say yourself.

Yeah, I also hear the tri-arrow as ha-ha-ha. If your ears are broken then so are mine.

I find it concerning that you're just kind of stumbling across HP memories. Getting the same vibes that come when a Resident Evil game starves you on Ammo and then you suddenly have more shotgun shells and flamethrower fuel than you know what to do with

This was based on early 2000s internet. The cats wouldn't invade for a few more years.

Again, I notice that so many enemies can do stuff that you either need Chips to do or just flat out can't do.

Having backtracked and rewatched, it was an N all along.

Stoping an hour and 35 minutes in because brain demands sleep.

----------


## DataNinja

All in all the game was... interesting. Definitely had some, uh, _poor_ design decisions, but the seeds of a good game were sewn.

The only real other comment I have is I only now realized that DenCity is (perhaps unintentionally punning) 'density', when it's the densest hub of entrances in the game.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, I was playing Neo: TWEWY which I got as a christmas present all day yesterday, so I have to catch up with the stream. so far, great game and second installment for its universe. 

*MMBN 4 Stream 4:* 
....there is a war in this world and everyone in town is ignoring it. I'm going into crazy theory land: its a war against all the people who think "the internet of things" is a bad idea. all the sane people in some other nation who decided to be reasonable with the internet are fighting against the nation we see in this game. this town is actually like, only one or two of the few cities in all the world where the internet got this extensive and any information about the world outside them are lies because no one actually wanted to be connected to the Hikarinet that was invented- and why even the widest internet thing you can jack only extends as far as the town your in. Doctor Wily and W3 while evil, is actually being funded by the people Hikarinet nation is at war with to try and sabotage and spread chaos across this nation so as to try and force the Hikarinet nation to surrender and give up their over-connected network by showing how easy it is to use the Hikarinet to screw up society. Lan is actually just a stupid kid being fooled into upholding his nations propaganda, unknowingly prolonging the war, Chaud and Protoman are secret agents engaging in counter-espionage against this to try and win the war effort for the Hikarinet. the Undernet is just their propaganda name for normal internet that is actually safe that everyone else uses. Chaud actually hates Lan because he is a kid who is getting too close to the truth despite Lan's naivete, fears that if Lan learned of it would turn on the Hikarinet and join the other side. that one child's comment put all the pieces into place, it all makes sense! 

my theory is that Hig has this weird speech impediment involving "g" words, its inconsistent but he sometimes he spasms of not being able to say "go" or "get"

Lan's father is never home because he is trying to win the war by developing a weapon against the normal net. this may actually be Megaman himself- his real purpose is to destroy all internet that is not of Hikari's creation, thus dooming the world to be forced to use his designs.

the reason why it feels like Lan's parents are five seconds away from divorce, is because they are. Hikari just wanted a son that he could use as a weapon against the normal internet by raising him to value the Hikarinet and manipulating him with his ultimate weapon against it also being his partner and friend to make Lan value the Hikarinet so much that he'd rather destroy the normal net than be without Megaman.  

.....well. your not WRONG to call them cards Zodi, when you think about it. all randomized item system-like games like this are basically reflavored card-collecting. gachas are just card-collecting with orbs. this? is cards being called chips.

oh! to add to my war theory, Geo Stellar actually came to the past to make sure the war goes in Hikari's favor so that he exists in the dystopian future the Hikarinet has created.

apparently bombs beat sharks. this is more logical than I expected this game to be.

Megaman: Lan! I've made it to the undernet, you got some mail!
Lan: thanks Megaman, I'll read it!
....
oh no that poor nigerian prince! here I'll send them some money to help them out...

Hikari has link to the undernet...my god, its his backdoor to the regular internet so he can spy on them! 

I think I've played Final Fantasy 3 once on the....DS or something? I remember there being a world, but the rest of the world was like paused or something....? hm. I don't think I ever beat it.

Yes, yuri makes me want to learn all sorts of things!  :Small Amused: 

I mean any Kirby crossover basically writes itself, as Kirby is known to eat food like he is goku or something and doesn't seem to have any concept of personal property- plop into any world and Kirby will probably go around eating food not realizing he stealing it, prompting the heroes to go stop him, fight him and bit then realize he isn't that bad of a person and is just this cute puffball who likes eating.....then some big threat shows up and Kirby shows everyone why fans call him a slayer of eldritch abominations.

and thus Bombman blew himself up for the cause to prevent the Hikarinet from spreading. what a hero, his sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Hikari: here son, have a link to the internet
*physically hands him the link*
Lan: Wha-but-how....am I holding a link in my hand!?
Hikari: the Hikarinet is just another dimension son. all those viruses you've been killing are actually real with thoughts, feelings and souls! Megaman is just a bio-engineered creation of that dimension. soon all the world shall have our worlds integrate into one!

I was right, Hikari is trying to win the war! Lan is playing right into his father's hands and winning the war for the Hikarinet.

trigger the war? my god, W3 is just the saboteur phase leading up to the true war against the normal internet! soon Hikari's evil plan to paint the normal internet as the villains to justify his war against will succeed! quick Wily, use the Lifevirus to get rid of the Hikarinet to save the world, its the only way!

Wily likes to drink purple flurp it seems

Wily actually wants to destroy Hikari's world to make sure the Hikarinet doesn't spread, thats all. he just likes to get lost in daydreams and wants to think of it as destroying more to feel like is designs are more grandiose than they actually are.

and thus does Wily present one final defense against Lan to show why internet of things is a bad idea: a locked door with no internet connection. 

Wily is truly willing to go far for the cause to defend the Hikarinet by giving Yahoot a piece of the Lifevirus. truly.

Hikari is a mad scientist who decided to virtually emulate DNA to recreate his son as a virtual robot to his assistant....meaning Megaman is a virtual clone of his own son, Hub. and thinks he actually using actual DNA for this......and thinks using 100% DNA somehow establishes a magical sympathetic connection to the genetic match in the real world. I think we are starting to see Dr. Hikari's madness in play and why Wily set out to destroy the Hikarinet. the pain of losing his son drove him irrevocably mad beyond all saving!

and so Lan destroyed the Lifevirus, ensuring that the Hikarinet would spread throughout the world and doom everyone to live in a world where everything is on the internet, until even humans are connected to it and Hikari uses it to hack into everyone's minds and take over the world. sometimes....there ARE necessary evils, and Wilys plan was one of theeeem!

and then the alarm sounds....looks like the war is not over. the Hikarinet can still be fought! we must not give up the fight against the internet of things, my friends! Wily's sacrifice will not be forgotten.

----------


## Rater202

"The game ends with the world saved at the heroes life... except it doesn't matter because later in the timeline it's established that civilization collapsed and humanity is effectively extinct so this entire thing was completely pointless" is a sad ending.

ZX had a better ending than Legends, considering that Legends ended with "The company started finally working on the last game of the trilogy, announced as such... And then abruptly canceled it for literally no reason, citing some immediately disproven bull**** about a lack of interest."

Characters named Axel tend to be the best.

...Oh god, this seems awful. And I'm pretty sure I know what you're supposed to do. The teacher lady whose blackboard is full of programs that claim to have been WWW viruses that were reformatted might have something to do with WWW.

The level after knight sword is hero sword, though in japan its paladin sword.

also, the thought just occurred to me that Froid doesn't work at Scilabs he works at the Waterworks.

Again, Zodi... Chaud is bad at his job.

...an old man?

In theory, autopilot driving is safer... Assuming that the autopilot is intelligent enough to recognize changing traffic in real-time and it's on an individual level and not synchronized into an easily hackable city-wide system.

...though to be fair, I like the hard light barriers on the crosswalks. That part of the system is okay.

Just, the crossings automatically change at certain intervals and there are force fields keeping *******s from driving through when it's pedestrian walking time. They also stay changed long enough for you to actually cross the ****ing street.

As opposed to real life where there's... None of that, half the time you have to press the button to get it to come on and half the time the button does absolutly nothing, it's just something to make you feel better about waiting for the crosswalk to turn on at semi-random intervals.

Chaud: "What's in that Navi?"
Geo: "Technically I'm not a Navi I'm a clone of the fusion of a boy from the future and an alien energy being that may or may not have been combined with the thing that replaces NetNavis. It's a bit fuzzy where in my personal timeline I'm from. I was told not to mess with time but I threw that out the window."
MegaMan: "I think he was confusing you for me. And I've already explained to him and Protoman that I'm probably an abomination of Science. Lan's Dad is constantly upgrading me and... Well, he's doing _something_ involving Navis made with human _something._ He was going to tell Lan something major about me but then stuff happened."

How does Quiz Kid know this stuff?

Ms. Yuri _does_ say she doesn't know the answer herself regarding why her having a twin was relevant.

Megaman defeats Kirby, copies his copy power.

Kirby then comes back for round two, eats MegaMan, gains Megaman's copy power... including the copy power copies from Kirby.

Infinite regression, Kirby destroys the universe.

Zodi you fool, if you kill the ghost of Elecman it'll spawn an infinite number of even stronger ghosts of elecman's ghost.

...Gonna be honest, a little disappointed that the next game isn't Metroid Dread.

Apparently, this game specifically has a really good Program Advance that comes from using Fighter Sword S, Buster Sword S, and MegaMan SF chips in that order.

Zodi, it's pronounced "Who reh uh."

I do appreciate that they illustrate that Bombman is stupid by having him use text abbreviations in inappropriate contexts.

I think the Mystery data was the address, since it vanishes during the cutscene.

"Dad I am literally eleven and I've already defeated pretty much all of their guys. I think I can be responsible."

...Ar ethe flaoting balls in the color-coded tanks the Super Programs? Do the super programs just exist in physical space?

Oh my god they are. I... With Star Force it works becuase it's alien energy beings and in the Anime they did cool stuff with it and I was like ten.

This is just... This is just...

God Damn.

And everyone just acknowledges that this random kid is their best bet for saving the day.

Old Man you have been standung there waiting to be seen for literally months. You're not being too hard in the government.

Hub...? Who is hub he asked sarcastically.

...It'd be funny if you challenged Higsby and he just says "no."

Zodi, don't lie to people. We *all* know what the When They Cry series is about.

"Lan, this passcode has four digits!"

Numbrman didn'rt even... Numberman just hacked the program to find the answer.

I still can't get over th fact that the life virus is something that physiclly exists and isn't' just data.

Color floor is very frustrating.. I think I get what you need to di though? Let's see if I'm right.

Yeah.

Lan is just humoring Dex here.

...So how did everyone get here? Dig Froid bring them with his own pass?

And then you take the time to beat the crap out of Gutsman, thus dooming the world.

"Someone copied the defneisve abilites of th eLife Virus" Hint Hint to bonus boss... Though... How/ The Life Virus was never in the net.

And then Geo pops out of your PET aand blasts the last door off its hinges because that's a thing he can do.

You know, I'm pretty sure that MegaMan cold have just shot over the gap. Roll really dind't need to be there.

MagicMan's next trick is going to California. And being really obnoxious.

...The joke is that he looks like Excalibur from Souleater.

The one time Chaud did anything useful... I'm gonna assume that it was just Protoma acting on his own though.

Is Chaud just... Not being an ass becuase Dr. Hikari asked nicely?

"Lan... When you were born you had a twin brother named Hub. He died shortly after you were born, so I digitized his soul and combined it with the data from sequencing his genome, an upload of his baby consciouness, a program capable of infinte data compression, and bleeding edge versions of all NetNavi programs to bring him to life as a virtual being. I then gave him to yo to use as a virtual pet and didn't tell anyone."

Like,later games establish that MEgaMan can be upgradd more or less endlessly becuase of the sheer data compression needed to fit a genome into him and that souls can be conencted tot he Internet, so...

So Lan's virtual pet is literally the weaponized ghost of his dead brother.

Which means that he has the mother of all unfair advantages in Netbattling. This is like showing up to a dog fight and your dog is a human being i a fursuit... And he has a gun.

...Does Knight come from a place with bad sex education?

Dad Hikari, this is information that Lan needed before now! Does Mom Hikari know? Is this why th marriage is so strained?

And... Once you're an adult, you have to pay to keep your PET. If Lan ends up a broke ass college student at 18 Scilab is gonna reposes his brother.

This is... All kinds of nope.

And this whole thing is...

I feel that Dad Hikari and Otto Mentallis could be sitting somewhere drinking... Or smoking pot, given hat it's all but outright said that the Psychic Seven were stoners, and they'd just be laughing their asses off about this.

...If I wanted to be gernous, I'd say that it wasn't so much that he eneded dead baby DNa so much as having a dead son gave Dar Hikari th emotivation to make the breakthrough. "If I odo this, I can bring my dead son back to life kinda!"

"And now, to stop you from stopping the life virus,my ultimate creation! A robot!"
"Oh, crap, a robot... MegaMan, does being my exact genetic twin let you ecome real."
"No."
"Hey, Geo, could you"
"Lan, I hate to tell you this, but... I'm not canon to this game. My entire precense here is just a what-if."
"Crap"
*gets kille by a robot.*

Like, seriosuly. You'd think that Wiley wold have kept up with the robot... No one would be able to stop him.

Why doens't h just push the button, Zodi? You jacking in doens't stop him from firing the rocket.

Also, I like how th eLife Virus was created by fusing four *non-viral* programs.

Lan's not jumpig. IT's his sakes, the shaking is making him role back and forth.

MegMan is dating that AI becuase it's the cloest thing he will ever have to a romantic realtionhip, zodi. He cna't date real girls Zodi, he's trapped in his twin brother's smartphone for all etenirty, unless he decides to live int he internet.

It's gonna be 200 hundred years before internet beigns and meatspace beings can occupy the same plane existance Zodi. nd then he'd have to be lucy enough to both still exist nd to get upgraded into a Wizard.

It's date Roll or be alone for enturies.

And Mayl? Is this really the best time to be having this conversation?

So, reminder: One of the later games establishes that Chaud gets credited with most of the stuff Lan does.

Considering that a later game has Megaman transfered nto a more advanced PEt I dont' think his circuits decaying is a problem. He's basically immortal as long as he doesn't get deleted.

And he could theoretically just... Be transfered ito th eNet when Lan gets too old to be a NEt Operator or personalized NetNavis become Obsolete.

----------


## LaZodiac

*Rater Responses:*

Huh. I'll keep that PA advice in mind just to like, look at it later. Could be neat.

A stronger Elecman is still a loser I can beat without taking damage (theoretically...)

Yeah sorry I don't intend to do Dread for awhile. It's fun and good but I'm not interested in replaying it SO soon after beating it myself.

"Zodi, it's pronounced "Who reh uh.""

I have.... no idea what this about, sorry.

Bombman being how he is to show his lacking cpu is great honestly. I do love little things like that.

I... the way you say that is rather incisive. DO you know what Umineko is? Cause yeah it's a When They Cry series, but it's quite a different beast from Higurashi (no spoilers, I may have experienced but I don't want anyone spoiled when I do get through it with Blue, which is my intent).

I will note that Battle Network 6 has Things that happen in it that make it clear that "living on the net" won't be necessary for Hub, and that he can likely grow, age, and check out when the time comes.

Knight comes from the American South so yes, but also he was joking. Making a tomfoolery.

Dad Hikari is honestly on the degree of Gendo. The only reason he's not invited to the Terrible Father Club is because he did actually have a full 100% good intention in mind.
*
Razier Responses:*

Yeah that's Final Fantasy 3. It'll make more sense when I get around to playing that one for the internets.

----------


## Rater202

> "Zodi, it's pronounced "Who reh uh.""
> 
> I have.... no idea what this about, sorry.


 Bombman's use of "U" for "you" and "R" for R.

Phonetically, it would be pronounced reh and uh.




> I... the way you say that is rather incisive. DO you know what Umineko is? Cause yeah it's a When They Cry series, but it's quite a different beast from Higurashi (no spoilers, I may have experienced but I don't want anyone spoiled when I do get through it with Blue, which is my intent).


I have knowledge of the VN and of the greater series that it is part of (which I recently learned includes more than just Higurashi and Umineko) I understand that it is a different beast from its predecessor, but...

----------


## Lord Raziere

FF3 makes sense to me, I did get far enough to like.....GET to the final dungeon. I think. I just don't think I remember it all that well, and I don't think I beat it.....?

....I think Rater is talking about Bombman's use of "Who R U" and jokingly correctly you on the pronunciation of the latter two letters usage, suggesting an alternative literalist interpretation of the letters wherein they are sounded out as if the r is at beginning of a word and the u is pronounced "uh", thus deliberating misinterpreting what is clear yet crude communication to everyone else, by trying to point out an admittedly highly improbable ambiguity of their interpretation. there the joke is dead, behold its corpse for I have slain it. 

Dad Hikari on the other hand is in my crazy villainous mad scientist wanting to take over the world club, as he clearly did all this so his Hikarinet would rise to dominate all, and is crazy enough to combine DNA and digital things together.

----------


## LaZodiac

It's time... for some crime!

*Zodi Streams: Sly 2 [1] Crime Time!*

*Video Length: 4:19:29*

The beginning of Sly 2! One of my favorite PS2 games, I hope you all enjoy. I think Sly 2 is probably the best of the Sly games, and it really shows. The difference between the first and second games are immense, in basically every way. I do hope you all enjoy.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Sly 2 Stream 1:*
Well of course Bentley has it written down and is reading it out, on a heist or caper like this, the instructions to do each step are incredibly important and need to be carried out with precision. as the brains, he has to make sure they are doing everything right, so he has notes for the whole thing from front to end. I imagine he doesn't do it in every day conversation after all. 

Sly doesn't knock people out, he uses his staff (which is actually hollow and so light it can't deal any kind of bludgeoning damage that could leave lasting bruises, trauma or brain damage) that is filled with a gas concoction Bentley made that instant puts people to sleep applied through its tip and then when they're asleep, the gas reacts and turns their bodies temporarily invisible, its fine, no harm is done.  :Small Tongue: 

its not fine. Murray is a stone cold heartless killer with no remorse. he is here because Bentley and Sly are too afraid of the damage he'll cause if ever gets loose. 

Neyla is a nice addition to this. gives Carmelita a foil and partner, gives Sly another challenge, allows for Sly to get info from the police if its more logical for them to know about something first, and her goals aren't necessarily the same but can be temporarily aligned when needed....or unaligned if necessary. I'd actually be sad if she turns out to be evil, because her dynamic adds to something to the conflict between them that makes it more complex and potential to do this or that with her that could contribute to all sorts of interesting scenarios. 

....I was just joking about Bentley concocting sleeping gas, but apparently that was prescient. 

and yeah, thats real good of the game to make each character a different playstyle.

imagine if you were timed so that when you complete the first part of the heist, you had to complete the other part happening simultaneously in the same amount of time. it would add a layer of challenge to it.

so yeah, the first episode villain being this guy who forges art and just speaks weird slang while owning a night club is fitting for a first boss as that combination seems pretty weak in the combat department.

----------


## Rater202

"This is for the VOD, for you folks watching at home... all two of you."

Me: Crap, Zodi has realized that I'm actually two wolverines using a system of levers and pullies to operate a human suit.

I mean he's not really sneaking around Zodi, he's just walking in a circle.

Clockwerk parts? You'd think there wouldn't be much to retrieve considering the state of the place where he died.

A museum of natural history is a weird place to put a robot owl and... Seriously, who would think that putting the remains of a homicidal cyborg literally powered by hate on display at a museum would be a good idea?

The crocodile hunter was afraid of the thing that Murray is.

Wow, the makers of Sly Cooper were really on point for how some cops can be. It's like they could see the future.

Oh...  Wow. I get it, Clockwerk's a bag of *****. But Sly's recap is... anti-transhuman*. Possibly even a little ablest? Clockwerk did it for the wrong reasons but Sly's narration makes it seem like he thinks that unending hatred is the only reason why you'd replace your failing mortal parts with prosthetics.

I mean, it's not my bag. I'd rather improve what I've got or otherwise incorporate the current me into the new me. But still.

*Transanthro? Transfurry? ...Transfloof. It's anti-transfloof.

I'm noticing a distinct lack of exploding hats and curling into a ball to roll around while crackling with lightning.

Apparently, the fourth game establishes that Sly is in fact willing to kill. He makes explicit plans to kill someone even. To be fair they had it coming

Turtle-Bro says that using the feathers as printing plates is ingenious... But I can't help but think that using something so rare and valuable for something so mundane is wasted potential.

...The door closed on Dimitri's tail.

Okay, throwing rats in the water main to clog the pipes isn't even accidental, the ratty boys are just ****ing dead and that's totally on purpose.

"I cannot overstate how enjoyable it is to do crime." Mood.

There's something appealing about the idea of being an outlaw, and Sly is very much the romanticized ideal of it. And you're mostly stealing from bad guys, so there's not nessesarily any moral guilt.

_Cats_ has been around for a long time Zodi. If they were gonna reference Cats they'd have done it already.

...Also can we talk about how the Jellicle Cats are transparently a cult? They hit literally all of the signs. Specifically, they act like a sex cult but the whole thing with the Jellicle Choice is 100% death cult.

That painting might be one of Dimitri's own creations. The Dadaesque aspect of his art seems to be his process, rather than the finished project.

I was expecting the fragile keys thing to mean that you couldn't attack or get hit while you had them.

Apparently, Sly's pockets are better protected.

I think that says Caffe de Paris. The t with the swirly makes a P.

So how the hell did no one notice the guns going off?

...Okay, unless the implication is that Dimitri owns all of this, maybe not so much free of moral guilt.

The panther lady is pink.

...It would be hilarious if she lead you right into a trap.

You get to the end and Carmaleta is just there and she shoots you.

I keep hearing "go go power rangers" in the mission track. the "dun dun du-duh dun dun" part. Not sure if tit's the same notes exactly but it's at least the same... Scale?

I can't unhear it.

You're hurting no one except the people that the bombs make explode into coins.

stopping two hours in, more thinky-thoughts later.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Neyla is a nice addition to this. gives Carmelita a foil and partner, gives Sly another challenge, allows for Sly to get info from the police if its more logical for them to know about something first, and her goals aren't necessarily the same but can be temporarily aligned when needed....or unaligned if necessary. I'd actually be sad if she turns out to be evil, because her dynamic adds to something to the conflict between them that makes it more complex and potential to do this or that with her that could contribute to all sorts of interesting scenarios. 
> 
> and yeah, thats real good of the game to make each character a different playstyle.
> 
> imagine if you were timed so that when you complete the first part of the heist, you had to complete the other part happening simultaneously in the same amount of time. it would add a layer of challenge to it.
> 
> so yeah, the first episode villain being this guy who forges art and just speaks weird slang while owning a night club is fitting for a first boss as that combination seems pretty weak in the combat department.


Nayla is pretty fantastic, yeah. She's got that sort of middle ground to Sly's "completely unabashed criminal who takes everything he does in stride" and Carmalita's "if you litter I'll ****ing beat you" hardass nature.

What's great about it is that they don't change how the game plays at all, everyone works roughly the same, it's just that due to their abilities they all play completely different, and even ways they're similar are clearly differentiated. Probably the best example of this sort of thing I've ever seen.

That feels like it'd be a bit too hard, honestly.

Yeah! Dimitri is, for lack of a better term, just some dude. He's got a gun, and isn't afraid to just go out swinging, but ultimately he's just some guy.




> Clockwerk parts? You'd think there wouldn't be much to retrieve considering the state of the place where he died.
> 
> A museum of natural history is a weird place to put a robot owl and... Seriously, who would think that putting the remains of a homicidal cyborg literally powered by hate on display at a museum would be a good idea?
> 
> Oh...  Wow. I get it, Clockwerk's a bag of *****. But Sly's recap is... anti-transhuman*. Possibly even a little ablest? Clockwerk did it for the wrong reasons but Sly's narration makes it seem like he thinks that unending hatred is the only reason why you'd replace your failing mortal parts with prosthetics.
> 
> I mean, it's not my bag. I'd rather improve what I've got or otherwise incorporate the current me into the new me. But still.
> 
> *Transanthro? Transfurry? ...Transfloof. It's anti-transfloof.
> ...


It kinda emphasizes how successful Clockwerk's immortality WAS if not even being blown to pieces in a volcano put him down. His pieces aren't even all that damaged, and given how blasted up her got in the first game seems to have regenerated as well. That's some powerful hate! As for Clockwerk's bits being in a Natural History Museum... I can kinda see it, in so far as "he's been alive since at least ancient Egypt, by this point he is an artifact". And also considering this museum is in Paris, it's probably got the same sort of methodology as Britain's museums; namely, if we found it we keep it, regardless of where it was found.

So, I do agree that Sly's specific way of framing Clockwerk is... rough. But also consider that Clockwerk's entire MO has been to, for centuries, torment and kill the people in his family forever. Sly has a lot of pent up emotions about that; he probably was raised both on stories of how great his family line is, and while not told the full details, definitely heard about the specter that haunts his family. So forgive him if he's a little unduly mad at cyberization and stuff. An owl made of hate and metal killed his entire family.

I mean more to the point that while Cats has always existed, the recent film made it a much more pronounced thing in the cultural zeitgeist.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Nayla is pretty fantastic, yeah. She's got that sort of middle ground to Sly's "completely unabashed criminal who takes everything he does in stride" and Carmalita's "if you litter I'll ****ing beat you" hardass nature.


Yeah if I wasn't Sly myself, I'd probably be Neyla in this scenario simply because "hey, actually catching this Sly guy seems impossible. BUT.....he only targets other criminals and is pretty good at finding big ones with lots of minions as well as making fools out of them. Simply follow him around, wait for him to ruin someone elses day then make the arrest on whatever crime lord he humiliates and I'll have more successful deserving arrests on my records than if I actually caught him".

which is probably how people like Zenigata and Carmelita keep their jobs despite failing to catch their target criminal: other rival criminals who aren't as good and probably do worse keep getting left behind in their wake and thus their focused pursuit of this one thief person is tolerated and allowed because they earn the honor of being the inspector that catches _everyone but_ Lupin/Sly.

----------


## LaZodiac

I can't speak for Carmalita but Zenigata at least is a hella good detective actually, he's just incapable of not hyperfocusing on a silly little monkey man.

**** now I'm thinking of Lupin the Third character's in Sly Cooper's setting.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> **** now I'm thinking of Lupin the Third character's in Sly Cooper's setting.


I think that how it'd work mostly is that it'd make a lot of trouble for Sly.

Because Zenigata and Carmelita would just argue endlessly about who is more important to chase while seeing the other criminal as not as a big of a threat, because Carmelita would see Lupin as easily caught and probably be the one to easily catch him while Zenigata would see Sly as straightforward and direct. 

Lupin on the other hand because his mind works in twists and turns and byzantine plans would do unexpected things that would mess up anything Sly is doing, simply because Lupin likes to prove he is the better thief, scam Carmelita into thinking he is easily caught guy and that he is still prison, make her chase Sly endlessly while gets all the gold. Sly's good at what he does, but he's no wily master of disguise who casually breaks out of prison while pulling retroactive switcheroos as a part of his master plan of the week. if I were writing it, Sly would be considering Lupin a famed troublesome figure of chaos to show up that he'd have to figure out a way around or avoid to get to his goal, he'd be a big obstacle that just throws his carefully planned quiet heists off the rails. or at least it'd cause trouble for Bentley's planning, Sly might just consider pulling something off while Lupin is around a good challenge.

----------


## Rater202

> I mean more to the point that while Cats has always existed, the recent film made it a much more pronounced thing in the cultural zeitgeist.


Yeah, but... Not in a good way.Murreay is trying to hard to be a superhero ad doesn't seem to grok that... No, no he's not.

Inertia is a property of matter.

Your suit is greasy something, Dimitri.

So I'm noticing that Carmalita's entire career seems to be "try and catch this one guy, fail utterly, then arrest someone else after that one guy did all the work for her." Between that, her obsession with Sly specifically, and her shoot first ask questions never philosophy... She's kind of a bad cop.

Remember everyone: Counting cards is only cheating if you have help or are giving the answers away to someone else. Otherwise, you're just paying attention.

"The spice must flow... Into my hands, so that I may sell it illegally, so that the money may flow into my pockets."

...How is dodging a gadget, come on?

Yeah, using the wings like this is even more of a waste than using the tail feathers for something mundane.

...If I were Sly, I'd have Bently turn the Clockwerk parts into appliances. That would be the ultimate revenge on Clockwerk.

"You spent centuries trying to wipe out my family Clockerk, now you power my washing machine."

Ooh, or gadgets that Sly can one day pass on to his own children.

I bet the tech guy of the Klaw gang is using his Clockwerk part for something suitable.

It's hard to anthropomorphize spiders and have them still look like spiders in the face are, zodi.

Like, my best bet was "a traditional drow with extra arms and itty bitty bead eyes on their eyebrows." Granted, I was going for "Monster girl," not "furry."

...If dragonkin and reptile furries are called scalies, does that mean that arthropod and mollusk furries are called shellies?

No, zodi, in this universe a tuxedo is literally a penguin fursuit. It's exactly as racially insensitive as it sounds.

...So can you sell th tux on Thiefnet when you don't need it anymore?

I like how the "pre-war turret" is shooting bolts of plasma

...Murray is Mask de Masculine. A hammy wrestler who thinks he's the good guy but is really just a murderous brute.

Raz doesn't be like that. A private city for me and my minions is one of my goals,

Granted, mine would be an island on the back of a whale or turtle...

...Or a space colony merged with a benevolent version of Ultimate Gundam.

If they do psychonauts 3 they'll probably just do like the post game of 2 where the hand helps Raz back to shore. Justify it by saying that it's omly been a little bit and he's not a confident swimmer yet...

Oh God... Raz is going to have to go back to camp to get his swimming merit badge. Cause, you know... Oleander's the one offering the Auquato's swimming lessons. And Sasha and Milla say they're heading back to the amp soon since the next session is starting and... Running the camp is literally Oleandr's main job.

And Ford and Lucy mentioned going to the cAmp, and... And Loboto went back to the Camp to get his kid.

Sequel, DLC, spinoff... the next part of the story will be fully or partially at the camp and Raz having to go back for swimming lessons will justify his being there.

...And then he never actually gets around to learning how to swim because crap happens.

BTW, according to their campster profiles Franke and Kitty, the two girls who hang out with each other exclusively in the first game, are *probably* a couple. They both list their relationship status as "Open Marriage," have each other listed among their likes, and one of them has highly lesbian coded interests while the other has highly bisexual coded interests. Too bad none of that made it into the game proper, but with Bob and Helmut in the sequel, there's the possibility it could come up if the whispering rock campers are ever revisited.

Re: Elephants, on a related note: Capybaras, the world's largest rodent, see anything their size or bigger that doesn't try to mess with it as another capybara and anything smaller than it that doesn't try to mess with it as a baby capybara.

It has something to do with how they're wired for the communal raising of offspring.

As a result, if you are chill with capybara, capybara chill with you. This means that capybaras are often found surrounded by other small animals just hanging out.

You'll get across the busted bridge by flying across with the Clockwerk wings.

So lemme get this straight: Carmelita just blew a huge sting and, while catching some criminals, let the big guy get away solely because she was pissed off that Sly got n and out?

How did she keep her job after this?

----------


## Ninja_Prawn

Hey yo, just dropping in to say I saw Zodi's new stream starting screen on tumblr and it looks rad. I'd have replied there, but I've got a different handle on tumblr so you wouldn't have known who I was...

----------


## LaZodiac

> Hey yo, just dropping in to say I saw Zodi's new stream starting screen on tumblr and it looks rad. I'd have replied there, but I've got a different handle on tumblr so you wouldn't have known who I was...


Hah, didn't realize you had me followed there. Yeah, for those of you who haven't seen it yet; I made this for the streams!

Glad you like it. There'll be a stream today, and I'm really shooting for Majora to start again next week. Been going through some rough stuff... not to mention my glasses broke so I can't see as well. Oops!

----------


## Rater202

> not to mention my glasses broke so I can't see as well. Oops!


Ouch. That is...  Not good.

----------


## LaZodiac

Crime returns!

*Zodi Streams: Sly 2 [2] The Spice Must Easy Reference*

*Video Length: 4:58:07*

We finish up Rajan's second episode, blowing up his ruins turned home, all in an attempt to capture him and steal the robot owl heart he has... only to fail due to a sudden yet inevitable betrayal. It leads to one of the best moments of the game, Bentley on his own having to save the day (and his friends) and it is clear that a lot of character growth has come from this. Also we beat up a spider lady, though she manages to escape and goes to a level I do... not recall IN THE SLIGHTEST. Huh.

----------


## Rater202

I'm going to assume that the quicksand wasn't deep enough to fully immobilize Murray. I'm not seeing Sly and Bently being able to pull him upon their own.

Using Clockwerk's heart as a pump that can't break or stop functioning makes a lot more sense than the last two levels, but still. Using it for drugs is wasted potential.

Like, presumably the heartbeats on its own, based on how sly describes it. If you hooked it up to some durable pipework you could probably create a closed water circuit connected to a turbine and essentially have perpetual energy. I'm not quite sure how *much* perpetual energy, but... Power costs add up, every bit helps.

...Also, does his having a heart mean he still had need of blood? Was there an organic brain till in him? Becuase I was under th impression that by the time you killed him he was essentially a disembodied consciousness kept bound to the earth by sheer rage using a mechanical body as a vessel.

Okay, never mind. Using half of it as an irrigation pump is less than efficient. Especially since he seems to just be using the other half as bling. I thought they meant some kind of industrial pump. This is just wasteful.

Rajan is a hungry boy, Zodi. Like all cats.

So did Rajan booby trap an Indian cultural treasure? Just rig a golden scroll case to explode?

So the spice is basically organic PCP? Scary stuff, that.

Sly is a Raccoon thief. Less ninja magic and more steal yo **** magic. Though I notice he's not using most of what he learned from the Thievius Racoonus, his family's ancestral book of stealth tricks and magic spells that they spent the entire last game gathering. Rolling into an electrified ball would be really useful in some of these missions.

And nothing bad will ever come from making an elephant OD on PCP.

I feel like you should have done the elephant mission first, since the whole point of it was to stop Rajan from being able to listen in on your communications. Like, you should have done that before even the recon mission.

Regarding Raz and Knight's side convo... Gonna be honest, I don't think there's that much difference between being a mafioso and being a Psychonaut.

"do geese see god" backwards is "dog ees eseeg od."

Likewise "flee to me, remote elf" is "fle etomer ,em ot eelf"

This mission seems a little buggy.

So wait... Bently is going to steal a priceless Indian ruby and sell it on the black market to buy explosives? Are you sure you're the good guys?

Didn't the last game involve beating up a thief who specialized in blowing everything up?

Zodi went splodi.

Reminds me of Prototype. just killing everyone is explicitly a valid way of ending an alert.

...So that convo with Neyla is a red flag.

So like... Uh... Yeah. The first thing we're told is that this is a set of ruins that Tajan converted in secret. This probably isn't his legal property, and while I don't know the laws in India I'm pretty sure that jungles and the contents thereof are public lands.

Or at least they should be.

I'm reminded of an episode of Bones. One of the recurring plots is that every couple of seasons there would be a serial killer they'd spend like, a third of the season's episodes tracking down for a season or two. One of them was Agent Booth's mentor from his days as a sniper in the army who was just assassinating criminals without due process. He was hiding out on property he'd purchased after stealing Booth's identity and was taunting Booth over the fence that he couldn't onto the property without a warrant.

And booth is like "no I don't, this property is registered to Seele Booth" and hops the fence.

Yeah, the heart half is just beating on its own.

Rubies are made of corundum, the second hardest naturally occurring substance on Earth. The ruby will be fine.

Oh, it's fragile now but it was just fine when you were smacking it, Sly? That's not how science works.

I note that you only have the guy's word that he's gonna give you the bomb. Also, confirmation that this is a proper Indian artifact. Yeah.

So the bit about tigers being adverse to water is objectively false.

That "cherry bomb 500" is literally just the same buckets of TNT that were already here.

Zodi, Murray is a Hippo. Hippos kill lions and crocodiles for fun. A tiger's nothing. Especially since he and sly both have OHKs now.

...Yeah, that is literally just a TNT barrel. The Indian Mafia screwed you over. Could have just grabbed one of the ones that were already there and either not desecrated an Indian treasure... Or at least keep it for yourself.

Jesus frick, the Clockwerk heart makes lightning? It's a generator? My god, that... That's literally a source of perpetual energy. And he was using half of it as a pump. God damn... Still with the squandering of potential.

Neyla betrayed you then she lied, tried to hide. So now you have to use karate to kick her ass.

You know what would be nice? If Bently were up there shooting sleep darts into Rajan. I know they said they weren't enough, but like. Chip damage. Or like, multiple doses might overcome his resistance and make him a bit drowsy and give Murray an edge.

Neyla is just a complete piece of trash. She is the Kyle's Mom of pink Indian tigers.

Carmelita... At this point swearing revenge just makes you look guilty.

Oh well, time to bust out of prison and become the fourth member of the Cooper Gang since your reputation is irreparably tarnished.

So I'm pretty sure that brainwashing people into being good is illegal. That's like a fundamental violation of their basic rights on the same level as a lobotomy. By all means, this shouldn't get her a job in Interpol it should have her blacklisted from the medical community.

Like, by all means, were I in a position to do so and get away with it I would kill her for this. This is utterly unforgivable. But I'm weird and think that respecting the sanctity of the mind should be respected.

...I am now imagining a conflict between the Psychonauts and Interpol over this bull. This is quite literally the kind of thing that th Psychonauts exist to stop.

Raz: "Wait... This s the real world. Did I just kill that bat?"
Sasha: "He's just asleep Razputin. Asleep forever."
Raz: "Sasha, he exploded into coins."
Sasha: "Asleep, Razputin."

Also, surprise surprise that a black widow's husband died under mysterious circumstances.

So are you just blowing up cops at this point?

I notice that the prison is creepy and abusive. This has aged maybe a little too well.

Excessive use of lethal traps.

Oh, and the Contessa is corrupt. She is, in fact, a member of the Klaww Gang... And looks down on the Cooper Gang for being more or less decent people instead of being motivated purely by selfishness.

So we have Carmelita, who is more or less a decent person with severe tunnel vision on the Cooper Gang, a shoot first question later approach, and a nasty temper. Ney-La, who is a liar and a traitor. And Contessa who is a corrupt criminal warlord who uses her position with Interpol to brainwash people.

I know the protagonists are thieves but this is a grim view of law enforcement. It's not wrong, per se, but still.

And her means of hypnosis are dependant on the use of drugs that we were told last level were illegal.

Bently better be recording this stuff. "we were mentally tortured and force-fed illegal narcotics while in custody, here's the proof" is the kind of thing that makes the prosecutors drop the charges for fear of that being leaked to the public. If Bently has a recording of this he basically owns Interpol and...

So there's been no word of Sly or Murray having been taken to trial.

Is there anyone on that train? I feel like Bently's about to kill a bunch of people to save one guy.

To log into my computer, I have to beat it in a round of Yu-Gi-Oh. It's hard becuase it doesn't follow tournament regulations on banned and restricted cards. How the hell are you supposed to reliably defeat someone with three sets of Exodia?

Why did they let Sly keep his stick and gadgets?

Keep in mind: Bently was right about the Ghosts in the last game.

The Murray almost broke character.

...You know. The Murray could probably just walk out of this prison. He can literally OHK anyone who tries to stop him. I mean, he just murdered fifty guards.

Regarding Carmelita: The thought occurs to me that the Contessa was at the party at Rajan's palace and was presumably one of the witnesses captivated by their dance. And, you know, Carmelita flew into a rage and arrested literally everyone in sight when she realized that Cooper tricked her. The Contessa knows for a fact that the picture is bull****, she just doesn't care. Or she and Ney-La are in league with each other and this whole thing was a show for the other cops.

I mean, where else would she keep her wallet, Zodi? Women's clothing doesn't have real pockets for some reason. It's either tape it to the back of her butt or just not carry a wallet.

#stopfakepockets.

So apparently there's a Cross-Promotion with Toonami. If you enter a cheat code, you get a gadget that functions identically to the alarm clock, but it's TOM 3 shouting "hey" over and over again.

Of course lightning can destroy lightning. Lightning blade is called that because Kakashi cut lightning with it.

"Murray'sbeen forced to OD on PCP. Let's use piss him off so he'll use his super strength to free himself." Bently that's a bad.

Murray: "Ugh, why the hell do I have all this skin!"

...Whre was Murray hiding the heart? Where... Uhg... He's not wearing pants.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Regarding Raz and Knight's side convo... Gonna be honest, I don't think there's that much difference between being a mafioso and being a Psychonaut.
> 
> To log into my computer, I have to beat it in a round of Yu-Gi-Oh. It's hard becuase it doesn't follow tournament regulations on banned and restricted cards. How the hell are you supposed to reliably defeat someone with three sets of Exodia?
> 
> Why did they let Sly keep his stick and gadgets?


1. Well of course, how else do you think I switched over so easily? Like the mafia I extort money from people by threatening them with my mind powers because they are under my protection and need to pay their racket money, I dispose of psychonauts that don't follow the rules by making sure they sleep with the fishes, we have a deal with law enforcement to keep our of their business as long they keep out of ours and of course pay them off when that isn't enough, and the boss doesn't care where the money comes from as long as long its profitable, but unlike the mafia I get better mental healthcare. say what you will about the Psychonauts ethics, but their psychiatric therapy is second to none! also beats being caught and taken to the Contessa's mindwash prison.

2. Wow, at least my Dark Souls login is fair. I just have to be good enough to win. computer card game rng can be cruel.

3. Given how corrupt they are, I'm not surprised they didn't take his items away. maybe they were never planning on making Sly into a productive member of society fast food worker. maybe they planned on brainwashing him into being the Contessa's thief so that he steals for her gain instead. we know the Contessa's a con artist with her prison set up just there to make sure the thieves tell her their secret loot stashes, with how good Sly is, maybe she wanted to run a new con where Sly steals something for her, gets caught again after dropping what was stolen for her to sell and sent back to her prison only to "break out" again.

Edit:



> Oh well, time to bust out of prison and become the fourth member of the Cooper Gang since your reputation is irreparably tarnished.


4. what do you think Carmelita's role in the gang would be? (because I doubt that is actually going to happen.) like we know she can shoot her gun at things, but Murray already has the muscle/force side of things covered. maybe she'd be the ranged person who shoots like, nonlethal rounds from a distance that Murray can't reach and Bentley is busy doing something big brain to bother shooting it with his crossbow. or maybe with her police knowledge she'd be able to impersonate other police officers and do stuff to mislead them? or maybe since the gang already has the sneaky one, forceful one and smart one roles all covered, she'd just be the jack of all trades that gets whatever job that is leftover while everyone else is busy doing something more suited to them, or requires some combination of at least two roles to do.

----------


## DataNinja

I'd hazard a guess that the cloaked figure that sold us the bomb is actually our corrupt cop friend. (Funnily enough, that figure was actually the moment where I was like 'okay, yeah, she's totally going to betray us, 100%'.) Wouldn't be surprised if we find the Ruby with her.

----------


## Rater202

> I'd hazard a guess that the cloaked figure that sold us the bomb is actually our corrupt cop friend. (Funnily enough, that figure was actually the moment where I was like 'okay, yeah, she's totally going to betray us, 100%'.) Wouldn't be surprised if we find the Ruby with her.


There were two cloaked figures and the one who actually bought the Ruby had a masculine voice, at least going by what I heard.

and Bently did arrange the sale with the local criminal underworld via the Thief Net.

----------


## DataNinja

> There were two cloaked figures and the one who actually bought the Ruby had a masculine voice, at least going by what I heard.
> 
> and Bently did arrange the sale with the local criminal underworld via the Thief Net.


Perhaps I'm reading too much into it. But... I dunno, given that she _knew_ you were going there, and everything, doesn't seem too much of a stretch.

"How did you know where we were?"
"...you've been selling priceless artefacts that only come from a very specific area."

----------


## DataNinja

Re: Latest Sly Cooper.

So, regarding the "Welcome to the Northwest Territories" sign being for Nunavut... I think it's actually more accurate than you're giving them credit for. Because consider what time period Jean Bison's from. Since the developers obviously know that, yes, Nunavut is a thing. And especially if this town was abandoned because of the avalanches, and was from a pre 1996 time period.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Re: Latest Sly Cooper.
> 
> So, regarding the "Welcome to the Northwest Territories" sign being for Nunavut... I think it's actually more accurate than you're giving them credit for. Because consider what time period Jean Bison's from. Since the developers obviously know that, yes, Nunavut is a thing. And especially if this town was abandoned because of the avalanches, and was from a pre 1996 time period.


Yeah I forgot to specify that "though yeah Jean Bison wouldn't know that.

Anyway; Sly 2 VOD posting! Late because I was spending quality time with my girlfriend.

*Zodi Streams: Sly 2 [3] Canada Time*

*Video Length: 4:34:11
*
In this one, we finish up with the Contessa, forge a... uneasy alliance with the Inspector (at least on Sly's side) and then take a trip to Canada! Hope y'all enjoy!

----------


## Rater202

The donation tracker gives me a sad.

"It would send any thief running. Except us. We've gotta go murder a crooked cop."

Why the frick would Interpol need to hire mercenaries? god flapping damned it all to blipping heckapoo.

This game does not a positive depiction of law enforcement.

Is your first decree "no" or did you have second thoughts about it?

Evil hypnotist uses evil hypnosis eyes for evil hypnosis. The evil hypnosis eyes that didn't do that when you fought Clockwerk in the first game.

To be fair, this isbasically literally the only thing other than decoration that the eyes could be used for.

The Contessa made the police look bad, therefore she has to frickin' die.

Is this the part of the game where it gets hard to buy all the gadgets that are in the level? OR are there just two Murray gadgets introduced here?

At the one platform, where you were having trouble jumping to the ook, not the one you got the first time and couldn't do again, but the second time it happened after grabbing a bottle... It looked like, to my perspective, that there was a thin pole or a cord sticking out of the platform. I'm not sure if that's something you can interact with but if you could have it might have been something you'd have to use to get to that hook?

Ah yes, the reduction tower where The Contessa strips people of their free will. And she does so by tying them down in suggestive restraints, emphasizing that this is a violation of their mind.

Also, Contessa sweetie, Interpol already knows. Brainwashing Carmiletia to take the wrap for your crimes isn't gonna work.

"After our encounter with Mz. Ruby two years ago, I began to dabble in dark sorcery myself, Sly. I just need to enchant a bomb while you weaponize the restless souls that can't pass on."

Wonder how many of those ghosts are the Contessa's victims.

Oh wow, none. You're using the Victims of some other evil person as a weapon.

Freeing them would be heroic if you weren't going to capture them again and use them as a weapon.

Remember the first game when Sly flat out said that they didn't hurt innocent people in the process and that there was no honor or challenge in anything but stealing the ill-gotten gains of other criminals? How the first game framed the Cooper Gang as Robin Hood types?

And now you're capturing the trapped souls of an evil sorceress's victims to use as a weapon just to slightly tick off a cooked cop so you can use her to attack another crooked cop.

The **** happened in the last two years, Cooper? I was joking about Bently dabbling in Dark Sorcery. He can't possibly have accidentally cursed you all.

Like, look, see. The ghosts are just enjoying their newfound freedom without bothering anyone. You're the bad guy here.

Okay, you don't seem to be able to interact with the cables coming out of the platform.

So why aren't Neyla's forces and the Contessa's fighting in the streets?

"Ghost, get out of the house" is a line you'd really expect to be in a lot more ghost stories.

Neyla's not all that put together, is she?

Steel is neutral against ghost type. You'd either counteract with ghosts of your own, or with dark-type moves, which is to say, lying, cheating, sneaking, or acts of malice.

"I don't want to hurt him... Even though I murdered fifty guys a few days ago."

Prague is the capital of the Czech Republic(formerly Czechoslovakia) the official language is Czech, it's very similar to Slovak(to the point that someone who only knows one can talk to someone who only knows the other and they'll mostly get what they're trying to say) and to a lesser extent polish, and has significant influence from German and Latin in terms of vocabulary.

So I don't know if the general is actually speaking Czech, but to someone who doesn't know better Czech might sound like vaguely German gibberish. Similar to how Portuguese sounds like bad Spanish.

The general doesn't afraid of anything.

I checked the wiki and apparently, he's just babbling incomprehensively.

...This is not a very culturally sensitive franchise.

I'm, noticing that when Murayy uses his instakill move, the people don't so much catch fire as turn into fire.

You say you're not sacrificing the wolves, but the bad mojo you collect corresponds directly with the wolves dying.

Wolves get a bad rap and it has terrible real-world consequences.

1: Sly called him Lizard earlier. 2: Maybe Bently's a fan of The Doors.

"Dumplin eats physics. And ****s Algebra" ~TeamFourStar

Okay, never mind. It only seemed like there was a correlation between killed enemies and overflow.

I get the feeling that Bently should have Sly here. Murray's too big to fit through the crypt doors but... Bently should not be alone here.

...Murray s almost the size of a tank. How's he supposed to fit in one?

...I was seconds away from pausing the Vod and typing out the Katamari song when I heard you doing it yourself.

So why use both sticks for movement? wouldn't one suffice?

Never played world of tanks, but war machines as a concept are cool. And giant robots. Anything big, made of metal, and heavily armed.

...Speaking of giant robots, I did some reading and apparently, there's a semi-canonical Gundam video game that depicts a stray piece of the Devil Gundam regenerating into a "Devil Gundam Junior" with all the powers and weapons of the original, plus a mind control function separate from its ability to control DG Cell infected life forms, and enhanced ability to mas produce and structure DG cells, and the ability to detach four parts of itself which can then form parts of the Four Heaven King GundamsGrand, Master, Heavenly Sword, and Walter. Devil Gundam Junior doesn't look like the original though. It looks like a silver upside-down torso being suspended by four spider legs at its waist. And it aesthetically resembles, loosely, the Turn X. completly with having a very similar head peice and an arm piece that resembles the arm of turn X's "production model" form(which only exists as concept art.) Since all timelines lead to Turn A, apparently some people are suspecting that Turn X and by extension turn A are thus derived from the Devil Gundam. It might be silly... But Master Gundam is part of Devil Gundam Junior, and Turn X *is* able to use a shining finger variant... And you know, rapidly propagating nanomachines that reproduce in defiance of conservation of matter and energy and can infinitely regenerate both themselves and their hosts.

Strong the Murray is, in the ways of the boom. But not that strong.

Oh no, the battery broke and Bently got covered in acid. Now he's going on a trip.

Bently seems to get the most frustrating missions in this level.

Zodi, you turned into Goofy for a second there. "Yaaahahohohoouey!"

I'm gonna be honest, with how difficult that mission was I was half expecting that they were gonna make you bring the battery back to the hideout to sell it on Thief Net. "You know, an antique acid battery like this, especially one that still has some juice, could catch a pretty penny from a collector."

It's just th what-if episode of Futurama where Fry asks the machine what life would be like if it was a video game and the earth gets invaded by aliens from Planet Nintendo Sixityfouro, Zodi. Except worse in every conceivable way.

Thinking on it, I do not want to know what the Contessa was planning to do with a Rage Bomb.

Not only is Bently on Sly's back, Bently shrunk.

Tesla winning leads to the Internet of Things, Zodi. He was the Doctor Light all along. Now Bentlyman.exe, Jack in and execute.

...The Old Bird?

Yeah, nine times out of ten anyone who claims to be above morality is evil and just trying to justify themselves. Amorality isn't immorality, but it's pretty damn close.

Squish da bug, Zodi.

I can help but note that technically Carmalita has no authority right now, since her bosses at Interpol still think she's part of the Cooper gang. Legally, taking the eye from Bently was a mugging.

Oh, Canada. Be careful not to run over a moose.

Clearly, Bently dabbled in alchemy. He's transmuting their life force into an elixir he can use to heal his own wounds.

Did you just drown a longshoreman because he caught you picking his pocket?

Bison is not very perceptive.

Prairie dog towns are a fixture at most major zoos.

You gotta be careful with maple zodi, or else anyone could do anything with it.

Okay, using Cockwerks organs to make it so you don't need to stop to refuel or run maintenance on the engines is smart. If the other organs are comparable to the heart then they're perpetual motion devices and/or generator.

I wonder if you could configure the heart, lungs, and stomach together in such a way that Clockwerk's undying hatred for the Coopers could provide a cheap source of clean energy to a city.

It was already stated that Jean is using the trains to transport spice.

Gonna have to finish later.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*On latest Sly 2 stream:*
Don't worry Zodi, I'm pretty sure a canadian accent is just  going ey instead of hello and and adding an eh? at the end of sentences. also saying don'cha know? helps

also the samurai still existed when the fax machine was invented. 

That bear has a radio signal a rare sentence that I doubt I'll ever hear again.

of all the people who deserve to say ****, its Carmelita
Carmelita: **** you Sly! **** you! You lead on this big chase across the globe, you evade me every time, you somehow always make a mockery of the law, **** you, and somehow, somehow you leave behind enough criminals for me to arrest, that my reputation goes UP because of it! **** you! And then you lead me into this situation where I'M a criminal but then you save me anyways even though I'm still out to capture you, what the ****, I'm confused, why the **** are doing this Sly?
Sly: because its fun, particularly when your chasing me
Carmelita:.....**** you sly.
Sly: Yes Carmelita, **** me. *Smiles, wiggles eyebrows*
*long moment of sexual tension*
Carmelita:......Fine
*one lovemaking session later*
Sly: oh....that was...amazing
Carmelita:....yeah I surprisingly....
Sly: I know right? What now?
Carmelita: This.
*Carmelita puts the handcuffs on Sly and arrests him, ending up in a cell*
Sly:.....Worth it. I regret nothing. 

I like how even sly sounds a bit dubious when Bentley tells him the plan of pickpocket radio transmitters from the bears mouths. 

How are the ice picks not waking the bears up.

Saws are on the roof because.....Neyla can hire tanks to fight the spider lady.

As for Carmelita calling Sly a trash panda....I can think of two instances where'd she do that...
1. While chasing sly:
Carmelita: come back you trash panda!!
Sly:.....you get a pass.

Apparently bears dissolve in water in this universe.

A NICE one Zodi, not an ice one.

Zodi: this looks dangerous
Sly: well you know they say: you can only spell safe with one letter of my name, but you can spell dangerous with four them. 

Turkey? for our bird? No, the US already has an obesity problem, don't add to it! :P

Constant-ti-NOPE-al

The moose that speaks to Murray when he puts on the mask, thats a cartoonish canadian accent, Zodi. Thats what it sounds like in a nutshell.

Holding fish makes you fly!

All that build up and relaxing flight and then just.....*whump* die because eagles touch you. Heheheh.

A pigeon with self-respect? What sorcery is this?

From this we can infer only Sly cooper is the famous criminal here and Bentley and Murray are considered just accomplices living in his shadow.

Wow they really expect you to be fast with those grappling hooks to pull down the guy. Completely unforgiving in the timing.

I dunno, Bentley, Bison seems a bit smart to actually find and sell those parts

Wait, their mission is destroy the parts. Meaning, the goal here should be to just find an escape vehicle on this fortress, work out a plan to make this fortress crash and get off before they die, then let gravity do the work for them. They don't need to steal them back or confront him.

Wow this plan is very super robot: a mecha powered by hate to make the pilot immortal. 

Technically with enough gravitational manipulation, lasers COULD curve. It'd be hideously expensive and you'd pretty much have to invent sci-fi technology to pull it off though.

I'm glad Carmelita admits they're chitchat is flirty.

I'm am the vertical and the horizontal, the alpha and the omega, the peanut butter and the jelly! 

Okay, that is SLICK, that is just gold that his gang just somehow set that date up right as they quit on their way out. And while Bentley had his spine broken! Say what you will about how that should've have been more of an impact, but the fact that Bentley and Murray managed to do that for Sly on the fly is impressive and that it WORKED.

----------


## LaZodiac

I was very tired and spent last night hugging my girlfriend instead of posting the VOD lol.

*Zodi Streams: Sly 2 [4] Clock-la*

*Video Length: 5:25:16*

This one is... rough, somehow. I ran out of steam about mid way through the final chapter because I legit just forgot it existed and I thought it was just a big final boss stage like the original game. All in all, still a really enjoyable experience, just... lesser than the first game in aspects I didn't quite recall being the case. Mysterious!

----------


## Rater202

So shouldn't the laser have melted or shattered the window?

Yes, wanting to have (or be) a weapon is not the same as wanting to use it. Sometimes you just think it's cool. You'd like a laser. I'd like a tank. A giant robot. Or Devil Gundam, which I don't consider a robot since it's explicitly alive. Or a symbiote Or any of the many, many Digimon that are "dragon with the capacity to launch nukes."

...Or an Umbras cube, which I am classifying as a weapon becuase they seem to only have potentially violent applications outside of maybe putting one in someone that's dying and then immediatly taking it back once they're healed.

Zodi, its pronounced "Con-stan-tin-opal"

...Moose Head. But the mooses are people. You're gonna be wearing somebody's head as a disguise

Zodi, if you see someone with a gun and a ski mask heading to your place of work while you're walking out the door and they don't stop you, you on't just ignore it because you're off the clock. You text the people at the office that "hey, some ****s going down" and then call the police.

Yeah, that is just literally one of their heads. That guy must have pissed of Bison.

...It's ironic that Jean Bison is a huge "Progress for Progress's sake" person considering that that attitude is part of the reason north American bison almost went existinc back.... Honestly, back arond the time he's from orignally, or at least that century.

Remember Medabots? The franchise where school children are given humanoid combat robots wih live ammoballistic and explosivereal, actual swords or combat blades, lasers, flamethrowers, and sometimes other more esoteric weapons as companions and they played a game that consisted of having them attack each other with their body parts being anted up for keeps? That's what therc battles reminds me off.

(Medabots, being owned by the same company as Digimon, did an april fool's crossover event: Three medabots respectively based on WarGreymon(GreyWar) Metal Garurumon(GaruruMetal) and Omnimon/Omegamon(OmegaKnight) vs a single Digimon, Omedamon, that was an Omegamon variant with Metabee and Rokusho arems replacing the Garurumon and Greymon arms, respectively and a differaant head. All of which eventually ended up official the next year. Omedamon would reasonbly be virtually invicible, as it's limbs and armor are made of the nigh indectructable chrome digizoit metal infuse with the regenerative nanomachines that Metabot parts of made of.)

I notice that the other tank doesn't seem to have limited ammo.

You'd think that the moose guard would be more suspiscious of the new guy asking where the thing is.

I feel like the plan with the oil runs counter to the envioronmentalist message of this level.

So is grizzleface justa permeant part of the map, ike Carmelita in the last level?

You know, it hardly seems sporting that Bison is participating in the games, considering that he's the host *and* is using the ultra-good-cutty-thingy that he's putting pas a prize. There's an inherant bias on the part of the judges.

Exactly.

I notice that he doesn't have to deal with any of the electrical obsticles.

It may have just been easier for the gang to gang up on Bison andd beat the crap out f him. Have bently sleap dart him from afar and then whenhe's drowsy all three come in, thwack him with the shrink gadget while Sly and Murray hit him with their respective charged moves and then just keep up with melee attacks from three sides while he can't fight back until he's in no position to stop you from taking the clockwerk talons.

...Where did the beaks for the disquises come from?

*Why did they have all of the parts in thier hideout!* There were weeks inbetween each job, right? You couldn't stash them in places? Take a layover to paris and hide them in your home base? God damn man, you might as well have used the parts yourself.

And yeah, should have just attacked Bison.

Is the "stew-pid" spelling meant to show that Bison's not as smart as he thinks he is, a phnetic representation of his accent,... Or is he making a turtle stew pun?

Defeating him with his own logging equpment is poetic. Especially since he called Bently stupid and yet isn't smart enough not to walk right nto the subverted equipment you're using to wreck his ****.

And Arpeggio, our final baddy, born physically week and unable to fly he researches clockwork devices from the renesaunce that resemble animal life in both forrm anf fuctioning looking to cure his frailty and I see *exactly* where this is going.

Wouldn't be surprised if he set up the rest of the gang for failure specifically to reclaim thier own clockwerk parts.

I find it impluasible that they were able to establish a safehouse on the blimp.

Da vinci was an average inventor but a _briliant_ artiststrist.

I'm assuming that Arpeggio also kept the husk or any parts that the others didn't want.

...Neyla was looking right at you.

Wow, Sly's kind of ableist. "all this because you can't fly" is... No, seriously Sly, Arpeggio's being a **** about it but "my body is small, weak, and unable to do the things it's supposed to do" is a perfectly valid reason to want an upgrade. You gonna tell a guy born with bad legs "all this because yo can't walk" when he goes out of his way to get a tricked out whell chair? If you're you're making repacements or additions, why not go the whole nine yards?

So wha'ts Neyla's motivation in this? Arpeggio is screwing over a lot of people but "my bdy sucks I want a better one" is a valid motivation. Neyla... What's the endgame here?

You know, considering that Clokwerk's parts are apparently self-repariring, I don't see why you'd need the extra hate. Once yo've merged with and taken over the frame Clockwerk's initial undying hatred should be enough, soncidering it seems to be powering thigs fine so far even with Clockwerk himself "dead." We know that one half off the heart generates electricity ex nilho while the other half and his lung's and stomach are perpetal otion devices. It shouldn't *need* an external power source, hatred or oherwise.

...Though the fact that the Cooper Gang killed Clockwerk in the first place is kind of a hole in the plan...

...Unless that's why they need the additional hatred. It's not to make the parts work, it's to power uup it's defensive and self repair features so the frame can't be destroyed a second time.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Rater.....

I think there is a world of difference from just designing some prosthetics to move better or cybernetics to live longer......and gathering an ancient bird who sought revenge on a single family for centuries who literally designed his new body to be powered by the users hatred while participating in a scheme to drug people then hypnotize them into hating enough to power said new body for you with your ridiculous flying fortress of doom that was probably built on the back of the efforts of an evil industrialist who is destructive towards the environment.

One is reasonable, the other is a massive overreaction and makes victims out of people for one's own benefit. its not that he wants an upgrade, its the ridiculous things hes done to get it.

----------


## LaZodiac

Yeah, the hate is to fill it all up with juice so it can properly use Clockwork's repair systems and stuff.

As for what Neyla's motive is... they never get into it. But given her outfit (and the lore the Instruction Book gives on her) we can pretty easily guess as to what her deal is. 

To elaborate; she's was a poor Indian woman from New Delhi who had to scam her way into a British university to ever get any respect. Any knowledge about the history of these places will probably make it very clear what her deal was.

----------


## Rater202

> Rater.....
> 
> I think there is a world of difference from just designing some prosthetics to move better or cybernetics to live longer......and gathering an ancient bird who sought revenge on a single family for centuries who literally designed his new body to be powered by the users hatred while participating in a scheme to drug people then hypnotize them into hating enough to power said new body for you with your ridiculous flying fortress of doom that was probably built on the back of the efforts of an evil industrialist who is destructive towards the environment.
> 
> One is reasonable, the other is a massive overreaction and makes victims out of people for one's own benefit. its not that he wants an upgrade, its the ridiculous things hes done to get it.


Yeah, but "all this because you can't fly? ...You're pathetic" very much trivializes Arpeggio's experiences.

Especially since Sly says it _before_ Arpeggio admits that he's going to commit an act of terrorism in Paris to power up the Clorkwerk body. So at this point all Sly knows is that Arpeggio went to great lengths to get and assemble a replacement for his own frail body.

The bird's an asshat and a terrorist, but Sly's dismissive attitude rubs me the wrong way.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Yeah, but "all this because you can't fly? ...You're pathetic" very much trivializes Arpeggio's experiences.
> 
> Especially since Sly says it _before_ Arpeggio admits that he's going to commit an act of terrorism in Paris to power up the Clorkwerk body. So at this point all Sly knows is that Arpeggio went to great lengths to get and assemble a replacement for his own frail body.
> 
> The bird's an asshat and a terrorist, but Sly's dismissive attitude rubs me the wrong way.


Okay but.

Imagine you confront like, five guys in a vast criminal operation involving finding this steampunk arm over a big adventure across the globe.

and the sixth did all this to get this steampunk arm because he wasn't born with a right arm.

but said steampunk arm you know is like, possessed by a demon, or at least powered by hating things. so whatever comes of putting on said steampunk arm isn't good. 

when prosthetics are a thing. and that furthermore given the tech possible in the setting, its possible they could make a fully working arm themselves without dredging up an ancient arm possessed by a demon. he did after all, somehow get resources to build a giant flying fortress in the sky, something that isn't technologically possible in our world.

so its like, does it matter what they want to do with the demon-possessed steampunk arm when we know what kind of five other evil people they were working with, and what happened the last time someone had the demonic steampunk arm? 

especially when said one-armed man is like, a rich jerk who has the money and resources have a fancy flying fortress of doom and tons of guards at his beck and call that he is probably not paying enough, and is a criminal who has successfully evaded the cops given his affluent position? 

all I'm saying is the guy has wealth for other more practical options. he doesn't NEED to go for the demon-steampunk arm made by the guy who wanted to kill you, your family and your little dog to a year ago and might be a weapon capable of great destruction. because thats roughly analogous to the situation here, the specific details are not exact sure, but the point is that maybe someone rich, criminal and genius enough to own a flying fortress and staff it with a bunch of criminal guards and stupid laser traps who can probably just make their own arm/new body with the resources they have available, is a little pathetic for going for a hate-filled artifact and causing a bunch of suffering to others to get it? like, disability doesn't really excuse all that, even without the terrorism angle known.

----------


## DataNinja

Yeah, hmmm, the game kinda felt... a little all over the place with what exactly it wanted to be.

----------


## Rater202

Anyway, I can't help but be amused that Arpeggio's men are still patrolling the blimp and stopping you after Neyla kills him.

Do, do they think that Neyla is going to pay them? Or do they just think that Arpeggio got impatient and skipped a step in the plan?

Is the implication with Ney-La's breakdown that Clockwerk's consciousness is beginning to merge with and overwrite Neyla's? She's a bitch but claiming to be "the Clockla" and revenge incarnate is a bit extra for her.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Anyway, I can't help but be amused that Arpeggio's men are still patrolling the blimp and stopping you after Neyla kills him.
> 
> Do, do they think that Neyla is going to pay them? Or do they just think that Arpeggio got impatient and skipped a step in the plan?


Simplest explanation:
they probably simply don't know. they were in a private room with no one else around when Arpeggio died. they know enough of the plan to know about the metal bird, they might not care enough to do anything if the boss decides to change the plan- you know how it is with bosses like this: whatever the boss says go, so if the boss has changed the plan, why bother wasting energy complaining about it? they're the ones getting paid to do the work. only careful planners like us would be annoyed at a change like this.

though I don't remember whether Clockla spoke loud enough for them to hear. really its odd that the machine can reproduce her voice so accurately, you'd think a body designed for Clockwerk would....only use Clockwerks voice. 

also if they both know that the Clockla killed him and that she probably won't pay them while as a giant crazy bird, I wouldn't be surprised in an organization as large as the Klaw Gang- they have operations across the globe meaning they're international that requires some level of organization to work-, that there is probably some second in commands privy to enough of the inner workings to seize power if one of the current heads kicks it and thus sign the paychecks in their place. crazy supervillain schemes come and go, but proper organizational planning and succession is forever. itsjust not a detail the game focuses on. of course the current heads being arrested is a great opportunity for them to get them to confess all their secrets and thus bust up their second in commands so that the operations don't just continue without them or even have the original boss continue controlling things from behind bars.

----------


## LaZodiac

Stream!

*Zodi Streams: Halo 3 (and Reach) Multiplayer Fun!*

*Video Length: 2:30:26*

A bit of a short one, but that's because it's just a final pin in the Halo stuff (for now, we'll be resuming it at some point when we've the time) of showing me the multiplayer stuff. And boy, is it stuff that is physically present! But I had a lot of fun with Em and the people watching, so that's good. I also, fittingly, ended up exploding with laughter at some point during this, so if you're a fan of Zodi making dying noises, you'll love this one.

There was also a poll during this stream to determine what gets streamed next, and the winner is; Beyond Good and Evil! Hope to see you all there.

----------


## Lord Raziere

apart of me is sad I didn't get to play with you because I have the halo collection, but considering how little fun you had, perhaps its just as well.

yakkety sax and katamari damacy did in fact fit this as music, but so did And They Don't Stop Coming (though personally I prefer Hey Now). 

beyond good and evil? what are we going into, rainbow morality?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rater202

> beyond good and evil? what are we going into, rainbow morality?


My alignment is choatic voidpunk.

----------


## LaZodiac

> apart of me is sad I didn't get to play with you because I have the halo collection, but considering how little fun you had, perhaps its just as well.
> 
> yakkety sax and katamari damacy did in fact fit this as music, but so did And They Don't Stop Coming (though personally I prefer Hey Now). 
> 
> beyond good and evil? what are we going into, rainbow morality?


See the interesting thing is that I definitely would say I had fun; but it's not fun caused by the game. So theoretically playing with people I knew would make it more fun, cause that's where the fun came from.

The original title was supposed to be "Before Good and Evil" which is also just as nonsensical to what is going on as Beyond Good and Evil, but the latter sounds much better.




> My alignment is choatic voidpunk.


Somehow that's actually pretty accurate.

----------


## Rater202

> Somehow that's actually pretty accurate.


...Do you mean I have accurately described myself... Or does Beyond Good and Evil invovle the philosophical rejection of humanity and/or transhumanist desires and actions by people who are alienated and/or dehumanized?

----------


## LaZodiac

> ...Do you mean I have accurately described myself... Or does Beyond Good and Evil invovle the philosophical rejection of humanity and/or transhumanist desires and actions by people who are alienated and/or dehumanized?


In short; Yes.

This will make sense in time.

(more directly, you are a good arbiter of your own self so I don't have much to say with regards to that, but yes this accurately describes the setting of Beyond Good and Evil quite well)

----------


## DataNinja

> apart of me is sad I didn't get to play with you because I have the halo collection, but considering how little fun you had, perhaps its just as well.


Don't worry, given how well the rest of us trying to play with Zodi worked, the session was cursed.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## LaZodiac

Took awhile to get the VOD posted because lovely girlfriend times were being had.
*
Zodi Streams: Beyond Good and Evil [1] Uncle and Himbo*

*Video Length: 4:13:10*

See game, I can arbitrarily list two opposite things as well! But yes hello, here is Beyond Good and Evil, an absolute cult classic if there ever was one. Renowned in its time for the progressive content of "you play a girl" and "you don't use a gun", does it hold up to the hype that as many as tens of people have within their heart and souls? We'll see! This stream, we got through the opening of the game, and through the first "dungeon" environment, the Nurtipils factory. Hope you enjoy!

----------


## Rater202

Oh what the _hell_ kind of dystopia is this where you need to pay a bill to maintain the power supply to your alien blocking force-field *and* they literally cut you off right in the middle of an invasion?

That's worse than that town that charged the other town a bill to use the only Fire Department in the county nd then when there was a fire the firemen went there and watched a house burn down becuase they didn't pay their bill and then when one kid attacked the firemen for literally standing there and doing nothing the kid went to jail.

Looking it up, the game received a download-only HD remake exclusive for the PS3.So the Alpha Section are bad guys right? They look evil and they conveniently arrive after you've fought off the DomZ so... Either they're in league with the DomZ or they're horribly corrupt and/or ineffectual and will start antagonizing you later when it turns out you're exposing their corruption and ineffectualness.An alien pig man saying "sweet Jesus" is weird.

...So... The Orpahange taking in the children left without parents after alien attacks is financially self supported and is completly on its own if it gets attacked by aliens?

God damn. You'd think they'd at least be getting donations.

...Ten years from now, all of these kids are gonna be frickin' pirates and nobody is gonna understand why they would turn to crime to support themselves or why they're so heavily opposed to the Hillyian government.

If a starkos is entirely synthetic then we really can't say that it will closely resemble anything we know of.

If it's a synthetic food meant to feed the lower class... It's probably made of processed grain and legumes. Beans and cereal grains that have been ground down, chemically altered, reconstituted, and baked into something edible. High in complex carbs and essential proteins, maybe vitamin-enriched, you could theoretically live off of it alone, but it's probably not exactly good-tasting and probably full of hidden sugars, excess salt, preservatives, and ingredients that are bad for you in high amounts.

I'm imagining a flavor profile similar to Ezekiel bread mixed vegemite and a texture akin to rice cakes.

You can live off it... If you call that living.

And that one was in the stove because it's dry and energy-dense enough that it burns good and takes a bit to consume.

Edit: looked it up, apparently, Starkos are some kind of artificial bread substitute.

Apparently, they're not bad with guacamole.

----------


## LaZodiac

Sorry for the late VOD. Was busy with stuff. Also, internet cut out during stream so it's in two parts! Oops!

*Zodi Plays: Beyond Good and Evil [2.1] Bad...*

*Zodi Plays: Beyond Good and Evil [2.2] ...and worse*

Yeah no to put it lightly, I can see why this is only a cult classic. I did... not have a good time of it, though I still think the stream was fun! Hope you all enjoy.

I think this week I'll be able to get Majora's Mask going again. No promises, just saying I'm gonna try.

----------


## Rater202

So I'm not gonna lie, I was strongly considering a DomZ/SubZ joke last week but thought better of it... But since someone else made it.

Also, something I forgot to note last week: You seem to be making more money from photographs than you are from jobs, random drops, and...  pretty much everything but the races is less lucrative than snapping photos for NatGeo.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Beyond GaE 2: Raziere Doesn't Pay Attention Edition*
So like the race announcer was like, obnoxious and dumb. 

But the rest of it, I'm like not sure what is even happening, because I keep not paying attention since every time I look back at it, you just seem to be doing another laser obstacle course and evading the same kind of guards over and over again. I don't I've noticed a single notable change in environment or know what the current objective even is. this games seems very samey so far. 

the laser traps and dodge-rolling through them do however make me thankful there is no such lasers in soulslikes that I know of, or you'd just know that such things would kill you or hurt you alot if you didn't time your roll right, because I've been training in DS3 for Elden Ring

okay we're finally outside from all those pipes and cramped corridors, thats different. though the boss looks just as serpentine as the first one I think.....

.....there is no leaving Zodi. you must do the stealth section or be stuck there FOREVEEEEEERRRRR......

oh hey, they took the orphans, cool personal stakes. too bad the game is so uninteresting and samey.

----------


## LaZodiac

The good news is that once I'm done Beyond Good and Evil, which will be next Saturday without a doubt, we'll be moving onto something lighter, fluffier, and a lot more fun: Rose of Winter.

Because after dealing with this archaic ****, I wanna revel in some good romance fantasy.

----------


## Rater202

So if I were to be in charge of rmaking this game... I'd make it so that the Alpha Sections weren't immune to their own stuff.

Tricking one you've incapacitated into wandering into an explosive that another has thrown or just in general them being damageable by their own weapons in the case of friendly fire incidents would be... Valid ways of clearing a room.

I've aso noticed them walking through laser barriers a couple times. None of that. Any time they walked through a barrier it would instead turn off... Unless they were in fight mode or wandering aimlessly after you tampered with their air tank.

If they wander into it by accident, they take damage.

I figure those two changes would make the stealth sections much more tolerable.

Edit: Isn't the force field meant to prevent exactly this from happening? The Alpha Sections clearly came in by blowing the top off the lighthouse and you left the Force Field on.

----------


## Rater202

Sometimes you just want to shoot a person
~Zodi, 2022.

That's a small ass moon. you could probably walk its circumference in a day if you're in good shape, especially since realistically its gravity is gonna be almost nothing.

Domz aesthetic is good. Personally not my preferred take on "eldritch abomination" but it's a good aesthetic.

...So 1: Prodigious isn't the word I'd have used with that accent and 2: This could have been foreshadowed at any point in the game before now.

Also, didn't they take his clothes? I distinctly recall an Alpha Sections guard saying that the prisoners were undressed before being shipped to the slaughterhouse. That was why you were able to find his shoes. So Pey'j should e like, in his boxer shorts or in a prison jumpsuit or something, not the outfit he was in to begin with.

The "green is not a creative color" bit is a reference to _Don't Hug Me I'm Scared._ A very interesting but very creepy puppet show on Youtube.

Okay, yeah, that bit with the door was bad. Maybe in better lighting but no, not with those colors in this light.

Interesting how the DomZ wnt a girl named Shauni and Jade's been using that as an alias ever since she heard a DomZ say it.

What's stopping you from just stealing that heart container? I mean, it's in the base of the bad guys, I don't think anyone cares about their property rights.

Amazing how the Hillyian word made fake news and dismissed literally every other piece of evidence in favor of kissing the AS's ass until just now when, really, this evidence is no more damning than anything else you've gotten.

So is the general implying that he' a Dom when the last scene implied that he was just a quisling? This game is confusing.

"No, Jade. You are the aliens" And then Jade was a DomZbie.

Now, Jade as some kind of alien power source in human form? That's my jam when it comes to eldritch aesthetic.

Jade: If all my deeds are by your will than you must be a glutton for punishment.

...So under your Pearl theory, you've been giving people to the Mamagos to pay for stuff?

They are working on a Beyond Good and Evil 2... But the original sequel they were working on after this game was scrapped in favor of a prequel and it's been a few years since anyone heard anything of it so... I'm not saying it's impossible but not every cult classic game is Psychonauts, getting a sequel over a decade later.

Kind of wish the orphans were more plot-relevant. Especially Yao, the 'human' who is otherworldly and blue. A better game would have used her as a false lead to disguise the... "twist" that Jade is a DomZ power source thingy.

Instead, they're just kind of there until they get kidnapped. And you apprently just leave them to fend for themselves for weeks at a time.

Oh noes, the piggy got fist-hugged. Now he's gotta hand burster ripping out of him.

Oh... When you were taking a picture of the manta and accidentally called it a praying mantis it reminded me of something but then I had to get up: When I was watching Code Lyoko as a kid, with the one enemy type the Flying Manta... I consistently misheard it as "mantis" and was confused as hell becuase t didn't look anything like a mantis.

God, I felt stupid when I figured it out.

_Rose of Winter_... That's by the guys who did _We Know The Devil_, right?

----------


## LaZodiac

Was making bread with the lovely and beautiful Qwertystop, so delayed in posting the VOD.

*Zodi Streams: Beyond Good and Evil [3] Good and Evil*

*Video Length: 1:38:07*

We did it! We beat the game, with a relative lack of difficulty... though damn if the final boss just reversing your controls like that is brutal. All in all, a decent game that I can see why people fell completely, madly in love with... but also did not age well in the slightest.

======




> ...So 1: Prodigious isn't the word I'd have used with that accent and 2: This could have been foreshadowed at any point in the game before now.
> 
> Also, didn't they take his clothes? I distinctly recall an Alpha Sections guard saying that the prisoners were undressed before being shipped to the slaughterhouse. That was why you were able to find his shoes. So Pey'j should e like, in his boxer shorts or in a prison jumpsuit or something, not the outfit he was in to begin with.
> 
> The "green is not a creative color" bit is a reference to _Don't Hug Me I'm Scared._ A very interesting but very creepy puppet show on Youtube.
> 
> Amazing how the Hillyian word made fake news and dismissed literally every other piece of evidence in favor of kissing the AS's ass until just now when, really, this evidence is no more damning than anything else you've gotten.
> 
> So is the general implying that he' a Dom when the last scene implied that he was just a quisling? This game is confusing.
> ...


They... do, kinda foreshadow it, in so far as "hm the DomZ call her Shauni that's Weird" and that's about it.

They immediately realized that nearly naked pig uncle was probably not something anyone wanted to see.

Aah, I didn't ever watch that.

*Newspaper man looks outside to see the rioters successfully overthrowing the evil alien police* "Well time to flip sides".

The read I took from it is that all of the Alpha Sections are fueled by DomZ stuff, but are not DomZ themselves. Mutated by them. The Black Angel of Death or whatever is a Lore Thing, presumably.

Yup! All the pearl's have been shown to be power sources for the DomZ, and if Jade was one it stands to reason all the others were former people ground up by space magic into space orbs.

I don't know if they did We Know The Devl. They may have? The only creator I know for Rose of Winter is Magnolia, who did the webcomic Monster Pulse.

----------


## Rater202

> Yup! All the pearl's have been shown to be power sources for the DomZ, and if Jade was one it stands to reason all the others were former people ground up by space magic into space orbs.
> 
> I don't know if they did We Know The Devl. They may have? The only creator I know for Rose of Winter is Magnolia, who did the webcomic Monster Pulse.


Huh. Managers as secret villains collecting impearled humans for nefarious purposes would have been a good plot twist in the sequel that's never getting made.

Looking it up, Rose of Winter is published by Pillow Fight, which was founded by the people who did We Know the Devil, but whether any of them worked on it isn't something I can find.

...Apprently Toby Fox did the music though, so.... So Megalovania is probably hidden somewhere in the soundtrack. Dude uses that song in everything he works on.

Have you played We Know the Devil? Or even heard of it before I mentioned it? Its subject matter is a bit awkward to discuss* on this forum and most of the endings are... Not happy. But the True ending is, if only for the protagonists, if you put in the effort to get it. Not a very long game though.

*Queer teenagers at a religious camp for rejected magical girls forced into an unfair situation that _will_ see one of them being hurt.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Have you played We Know the Devil? Or even heard of it before I mentioned it? Its subject matter is a bit awkward to discuss* on this forum and most of the endings are... Not happy. But the True ending is, if only for the protagonists, if you put in the effort to get it. Not a very long game though.
> 
> *Queer teenagers at a religious camp for rejected magical girls forced into an unfair situation that _will_ see one of them being hurt.


Ah, so what your saying is, I'll probably have to pull out the bathos humor for Rose of Winter then?

----------


## Rater202

> Ah, so what your saying is, I'll probably have to pull out the bathos humor for Rose of Winter then?


No. While We Know The Devil is... Yeah, from what I can tell Rose of Winter is a straight Romance.

It should be fine.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Huh. Managers as secret villains collecting impearled humans for nefarious purposes would have been a good plot twist in the sequel that's never getting made.
> 
> Looking it up, Rose of Winter is published by Pillow Fight, which was founded by the people who did We Know the Devil, but whether any of them worked on it isn't something I can find.
> 
> ...Apprently Toby Fox did the music though, so.... So Megalovania is probably hidden somewhere in the soundtrack. Dude uses that song in everything he works on.
> 
> Have you played We Know the Devil? Or even heard of it before I mentioned it? Its subject matter is a bit awkward to discuss* on this forum and most of the endings are... Not happy. But the True ending is, if only for the protagonists, if you put in the effort to get it. Not a very long game though.
> 
> *Queer teenagers at a religious camp for rejected magical girls forced into an unfair situation that _will_ see one of them being hurt.


I've never heard of it until you just mentioned it. Also I'm blind on Rose of Winter so don't say anything spoilery about it.

Sounds fascinating though.




> Ah, so what your saying is, I'll probably have to pull out the bathos humor for Rose of Winter then?


What?




> No. While We Know The Devil is... Yeah, from what I can tell Rose of Winter is a straight Romance.
> 
> It should be fine.


What does this mean???

----------


## Rater202

> What does this mean???


It means that as far as I know the Rose of Winter is exactly what you think it is.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> What?


I was just referring to a style of humor where you make jokes after making everything dark and serious, don't worry about it. if they're not similar then there is nothing to worry about.

----------


## LaZodiac

Whassa... what's this? It says... Zel...dor?
*
Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [9] Silent Running*

*Video Length: 36:37*

We return to the Zelda! I accidentally borked the audio for the game so I had to make do with some beautiful remixes from the Zelda Reorchestrated project, which you can find a link to in the video description. Support'em!

In this episode, we get back into the swing of things, I show off a few money making schemes, get bullied by minigames, and see the price of failure. Mysteries abound in Termina, and we're gonna do our best to solve them. Dododododo do do dododo!

----------


## DataNinja

Whoopsies, looks like the beginning episode curse of Technical Difficulties also strikes after hiatuses.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 9: Loop 3, Day 3*
Ah Takkuri, I remember when my brother killed this thing and got a big orange rupee out of it....wait its gold in this?......huh. weird. 

oh no, those dogs probably use the same AI as the one in Clock Town and thus all of them probably attack Link if he's a Deku....

the Romani ranch being like this is.....unsettling. something clearly happened but the fact that your given so little details about the incident just makes worse.

yeah, Bunny Hood's pretty much one of the best masks in the game.

you already knew the number, wah-wah, wawawawawawawawa.....

and yeah its pretty sad for the mailman, so devoted to his job and schedule he can't make himself leave even as he realizes that he is gonna die because the moon is falling.

----------


## Rater202

It's still so weird that a random kid that's like, ten at the _oldest_ is treated as an adult because he had a sword...

...Link was still mentally a child in OoT, right? He was basically asleep for seven years, so even if he had the physical cognitive development he wouldn't have the experience and...

These games are creepy in more ways than are immediately obvious.

Ten-year-old hero of time getting his ass kicked by a thief-bird with help from its minions the bat and the ghost skull thingy.

"You can't draw your sword" is a weird curse.

Is Tingle really that awful? Yeah he looks funny and is a bit weird but he's not hurting anybody and he's living his best life.

You know, looking at the size of the moon compared to how close it is I don't think it would do that much damage.*Spoiler*
Show

Especially in light of it being hollow, the clock tower in town can probably support the Moon's weight, this whole thing is weird.


Oh noes, something traumatic happened to Little Milk Girl. What possibly could have happened? Why didn't you listen to her, Big Milk Girl? And why are the cows gone?

Zodi, no, don't mess with the chickens. You should know better than that.

Yeah, you drastically shortened the life of the chickens in order to cheer up one random guy.

...Did you know that the earliest Goofus and Gallant strips depicted them as elves?

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

Oh hey, a Majora's Mask episode! I actually have something to talk about now!

There is in fact a minigame with the Gormon Brothers, however you need Epona to be able to activate it. In fact, you need to be currently mounted on Epona in order to get the dialogue to activate the quest!

And yes, bunny hat is love, bunny hat is life.

I believe if you score a perfect on each of the three days, you get a quarter heart as a bonus.

There's a few of silver rupees available every day. The bunny hat one you just got, the one behind the Skultulka in the Bomber Gang Hideout, and there's a third in the tavern on the final day (or sooner if you complete a quest). You can turn the rupees in to the bank guy so you don't have overflow problems. Plus saving up enough rupees is a generally good idea. For reasons. And stuff. 

There are reasons why some of the masks are prohibited in the sword training. The bunny mask helps you get into position faster, and is thus considered an unfair advantage. Other masks replace the functionality of the button needed to perform a jump slash, and so are not permitted so you don't fail because your mask was preventing you from doing it.

I suspect some of the minigame prizes have been replaced with fishing hole tickets, as the fishing hole did not exist in the original that I played.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Actually Rater there is evidence to indicate that Link is older in Majora's Mask than he is OOT.

in OOT, he can only wield the Kokiri shield normally as a kid, and needs to be an adult to the wield hylian shield on his arm rather than his back.

in Majora's Mask however, he wields a hylian shield no problem. 

furthermore, Link only uses a bow in Majora's Mask when he starts ranged combat with a sling in OOT, suggesting he past using a childish toy over an actual weapon.

its very possible that he has wandering for years outside of Hyrule by the time Majora's Mask takes place. this makes sense as Navi represents Link's lost child innocence and OOT was all about Link coming of age.

----------


## Rater202

> Actually Rater there is evidence to indicate that Link is older in Majora's Mask than he is OOT.
> 
> in OOT, he can only wield the Kokiri shield normally as a kid, and needs to be an adult to the wield hylian shield on his arm rather than his back.
> 
> in Majora's Mask however, he wields a hylian shield no problem. 
> 
> furthermore, Link only uses a bow in Majora's Mask when he starts ranged combat with a sling in OOT, suggesting he past using a childish toy over an actual weapon.
> 
> its very possible that he has wandering for years outside of Hyrule by the time Majora's Mask takes place. this makes sense as Navi represents Link's lost child innocence and OOT was all about Link coming of age.


1: He's the same size.

2: A sling isn't a childish weapon. A sling is basically a gun in terms of deadliness if you know what you're doing, the bow is, if anything, a safer and less violent lesson.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> 1: He's the same size.
> 
> 2: A sling isn't a childish weapon. A sling is basically a gun in terms of deadliness if you know what you're doing, the bow is, if anything, a safer and less violent lesson.


1: could be game model limitations. he still wields the hylian shield normally when it previously only fit on his back and was bigger, so relative size wise, either the hylian shield somehow shrunk or he got bigger.

----------


## LaZodiac

> It's still so weird that a random kid that's like, ten at the _oldest_ is treated as an adult because he had a sword...
> 
> ...Link was still mentally a child in OoT, right? He was basically asleep for seven years, so even if he had the physical cognitive development he wouldn't have the experience and...
> 
> These games are creepy in more ways than are immediately obvious.
> 
> Ten-year-old hero of time getting his ass kicked by a thief-bird with help from its minions the bat and the ghost skull thingy.
> 
> "You can't draw your sword" is a weird curse.
> ...


Link's having a normal one, yeah.

Tingle is a source of genuine frustration due to his role in Wind Waker. And, bluntly, as a child the photorealistic older man face did make me uncomfortable.

Ah, yes, the fabled Fophren and Finya! I see!
(jokes aside that's actually quite fascinating)




> Oh hey, a Majora's Mask episode! I actually have something to talk about now!
> 
> There is in fact a minigame with the Gormon Brothers, however you need Epona to be able to activate it. In fact, you need to be currently mounted on Epona in order to get the dialogue to activate the quest!
> 
> And yes, bunny hat is love, bunny hat is life.
> 
> I believe if you score a perfect on each of the three days, you get a quarter heart as a bonus.
> 
> There's a few of silver rupees available every day. The bunny hat one you just got, the one behind the Skultulka in the Bomber Gang Hideout, and there's a third in the tavern on the final day (or sooner if you complete a quest). You can turn the rupees in to the bank guy so you don't have overflow problems. Plus saving up enough rupees is a generally good idea. For reasons. And stuff. 
> ...


Yeah! Sorry it took so long, hope you enjoy!

Noted, RE heart pieces and minigames. grumblegrumble. Although they may have been replaced because as you say, fishing.

I'm gonna try every mask to see what the swordmaster has to say.




> 1: could be game model limitations. he still wields the hylian shield normally when it previously only fit on his back and was bigger, so relative size wise, either the hylian shield somehow shrunk or he got bigger.


Yeah I'm going to say regarding this; Link has all the experiences from Ocarina of Time, so he's just better at using things like a bow and a shield. The shield being a more reasonable size here is because he got one made in his size, as opposed to the adult shield he wore on his back in OOT.

----------


## LaZodiac

And here's today's stream VOD~

*Zodi Streams: Rose of Winter [1] Beasts, Dragons*
*
Video Length: 3:29:02*

We begin our exploration of the wonderful Rose of Winter, a delightful romantic visual novel made by the creator of Monster Pulse, Magnolia Porter. She is an excellent writer, and a pretty cool lady, so check out her stuff. If you like the taste of what you're getting here, definitely look forward to next week, when her next webcomic, The Golden Boar, based in this universe, comes out!

In today's stream, we go through two of the four available hunky boys to date; the strong and willful Kuya, the beast prince, and the alluring and quiet Tirune, the dragon prince. Two pretty excellent stories, though I'd say Kuya's romance was stronger overall in both pacing and so on.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*On Rose Of Winter:*
So I woke up late, and was busy playing Elden Ring so....darn it. Wish I'd remembered, anyways, I'll comment after the fact anyways.

technically she'd be a Knightess but I think everyone just uses Knight gender neutrally now.

"so far I've just been doing odd jobs for gold" like a true adventurer.

she has a guts blade/buster sword. I dunno how strong she is IRL, but if she was in dark souls she'd have like at least 28 strength for something like that which is pretty strong.

first guy is an uncle, pass you can do better Rosemary. 

second guy has his younger brother around ugh, pass you don't want to play at being a mother yet.

third guy is weak, pass, you'd have to do everything.

fourth guy......I dunno he's got Ganondorf vibes. that might work ala Tales of Two Rulers, but it could also go real poorly. 

....being honest about the reason the jobs your taking. I like it. you have your priorities straight, Rosemary.

....those duds are things Kuya picked because they looked cool and he's young isn't he? he wanted to look cool and I didn't think about the practicalities. 

yeah this is real young ganondorf vibes. but vegeta also works.

"destroyed an entire forest"......sure mate. and I'm princess of the kingdom of diamonds and icecream.

this guy is telling tales taller than the mountain they're walking on.

Kuya....Kuya.....Kuya...your camping, there are no baths out here. you brought this on yourself. 

Kuya is egotistical and playacting at being what he wants to be. 

okay Kuya, put your money where you mouth is, giant boar slay it, you've done this before right? right? do it. come lets see you kill with one claw, I'll be here watching to seeing your greatness.

hide like steel, tusks kill you in a second? wild animal? sounds like an elden ring boss to kill with me flail. its in the open so I just got to get on horseback and charge around to hit from behind, do this a few times and its dead. honestly any blunt weapon would do. 

my god she is dark souls rolling in both armor and carrying another person while reading its attacks, she is Endurance and Strength 40 or more at least. Rosemary would be great at playing dark souls, thats strong in my book.

well, it has be a bit beautiful with the night sky right? you can see the stars after all. 

"WE ARE SLEEPING NOW! ZZZZ! Saying Z repeatedly is how people sleep right!?"-Kuya probably.

Kuyamom? Kuyasis? hm.

yup, thats what I figured. also Rosemary likes him bound up. he is perfect to her, tied up in a submissive position. 

Kuya likes himself bound, Rosemary is perfect to him, standing over him in a dominant position.

yes, the special thanks did say every flavor of La Croix.....all zero of them!

it also thanked Ganondorf, we all knew it.

and Tirune immediately throws us into the exact opposite end of the pool. I feel like I'm looking at my own personality here, because I'm this quiet and cold to others when I'm in person as well, at least around people I don't know. and he goes on and on about poetic mystical nonsense and looking at the cosmic mythical scale of things, the similarities to me only deepen. aaaaaaagh. Tirune is one of those nerds who when asked a questions answers with things like "well astronomically speaking the sun and planets are billions or millions of years old so we're all mayflies compared to that!"

wow, the social riposte and strikeback on that sweet line.....the dragons smooth. whats the problem here though? Kuya turned out to be a little princeling that needs protecting, what about Tirune? whats his problem? maybe his problem is that he overthinks everything, because that is a problem I have and he is very much like me, like he is a galaxy brain person like me and sometimes you only need a pebble brain to solve something.

I mean he is a dragon, I'd be surprised if he does get it, but at the same time....hm.....I'm still waiting for the problem to come in, this is going too well. 

aaaand there it is, we have Beastars problems.

....wait what if dragons confused the words for mating and eating? they're only one letter apart after all....

you don't divide 20 into 3 Zodi, only 21 is divisible by 3 into 7! with 20, you got 6.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666......  ......

Kuya's story was just a funny romantic comedy about a guy lying about his life and learning that not everything is about strength. Tirune's story is a deep serious conversation about the problems of relationships that have a lot of inequalities and toxic ideas involved in them reminiscent of Beastars.

Yup, Rana's probably in a grave. I imagine something as old as dragons don't exactly do prisons. 

heh, dragon rider.... :Small Amused:

----------


## Rater202

Title drop!

Rosmery looks very hugable.

Zodi... Look how bulky she is. Now consider that, as a farm girl turned warrior, she's likely to be living mostly on meat and starch and be very physically active.

And that armor doesn't look too heavy.

So... Must of that bulk is muscle.

Like, look at her legs. Look at them. She's clearly never skipped leg day. *And every day is leg day.*

I'm imagining that in a more lifelike art style she'd have a build similar to Lauri-ell but shorter and with a slightly higher body fat content
*Spoiler*
Show



Image from marvel database wiki


So the answer to your question, how strong she is is "very."

Zodi... If nobody took the shortcut route, there wouldn't be a game. Just accept that by sheer coincidence there are several romantically available princes who need to get to the important city ASAP and are willing to hire the cute muscle knight to escort them there and maybe fall in love with her.

Mousey mouse is visible.

Oh, Rosemary, you sweet child... This job is kind of the opposite of how knights normally take care of dragons.

...Unless the knight is a bard.

Okay never mind on the "shorter" part of my Lauri-Ell comparison, Rosemary is a goddamned amazon.

I will be sorely disappointed if every route doesn't involve rosemary carrying the prince on her back at least once.

You don't want to be so famous that the Paparazzi harasses you everywhere you go and random strangers pick through your garbage?

...You know if he's really that mighty then why does he need an escort?

Oh this route is off to a great start. It's like watching a trainwreck.

Rosemary your mom gave you bad advice.

My god, this guy is so tryhard.

Oh my god, he' a Himbo trying to be an edgelord.

...I really hope you don't get in trouble with Twitch over this.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that this is not a game to be searching fanart of.

So when does the candle start singing?

Dat's a lot of bacon.

Okay, close enough. Bridal carry that big boy to safety.

Jump over the pig! This is what happens when _every day is leg day._

Digimon reference! In honor of he who dies in every season!

...The goatherd and his wife made fun of Rosemary for doing the job they hired her to do? And then paid her with cheese? Oh, sweety, Rosemary you got scammed.

Eternal twilight would be nice.

....Okay, if the trees are that big and it's full of mist maybe that's why eternal twilight. The sun, it never makes it to the ground. The grass being silver supports this, chlorophyll won't do the trick so it's gotta have some other way of getting nutrients allowing for it to be other colors. Probably some form of symbiosis with the big ass ricking trees using the mycelia networks of one or more species of symbiotic or parasitic fungus as a medium? Cause that's a thing in real forests and in a magic one a more extreme variation would certainly be possible.

Can't tell if adorable or cringe.

Kuya: "Oh my god, this is just like in my stories." *falls in love with Rosemary.*

...Okay, Karro's kind of a bitch. I think this is why he fantasizes about being a legendary hunter. She flat out called him the runt earlier so their other siblings probably treat him the same way.

And Yeah, Rosemary says basically that.

The way she acts tells me she's wrong, Zodi. If he was a spoilt brat you'd think she'd have just come out and said so and if he was delusional or ill he'd be under closer attention.

Also, the way he acts. He wouldn't have shown those moments of tenderness if he was just spoiled and he wouldn't be contradicting himself or breaking character if he was delusional.

"He did this because he's a sad boy who just wants to feel special" is pretty much the only plausible explanation that makes sense in context.

You love the big soft horny puppy man, Zodi?

Oh my god this narration is...

*pig shows up* And then there's _this_ *******.

Again, Karo's kind of a bitch.

And Route completed.

There are apparently good and bad endings for each of these, by the way. Though the bad ones are mostly bittersweet than outright bad. I have no idea how you achieve any of them though.

Comments on dragon prince later, been up all night.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (9)*
Show




> Whassa... what's this? It says... Zel...dor?
> *
> Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask [9] Silent Running*
> 
> *Video Length: 36:37*
> 
> We return to the Zelda! I accidentally borked the audio for the game so I had to make do with some beautiful remixes from the Zelda Reorchestrated project, which you can find a link to in the video description. Support'em!
> 
> In this episode, we get back into the swing of things, I show off a few money making schemes, get bullied by minigames, and see the price of failure. Mysteries abound in Termina, and we're gonna do our best to solve them. Dododododo do do dododo!





Yeah that was a lot of rupee RIP between missing some, losing and not recovering some, and overflowing.  :Small Sigh:  At least you killed it!

That poor couple you shot with an arrow.

The Deku Playground I believe has 3 games, one per day, at least in the original you have to get all 3 in the same cycle to get the heart piece (same with the honey and darling).  What a great play through of the level though, well done on those clutches.



*EPISODE 9 KILL TALLY!*

Blue Bubble - 2
Takkuri - 1
Keese - 2

Style Points - 0
Time Reset Count - 1

Missed Rupees - 4
Lost Rupees - 87 overflow, 23 lost from the Takkuri and unrecovered, for a total of 110   :Small Eek: 



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 9_)
*Spoiler*
Show


Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 51
Dinolfos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Leever - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 5
Wolfos - 13

*Avians*
Guay - 24
Takkuri - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 6_
Baba, Deku - 14

*Keese*
Bad Bat - 7
Keese - 2

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8

*Octoroks*
Octoroks, Red - 100
Octos, Big - 1

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 4_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Stal*
Bubble - 5
Bubble, Blue - 2

*Time Reset Count* - 3

*Total Things Dead* - 290

*1st Place* - Red Octorok, at 100!
*2nd Place* - Mad Deku Scrubs, at 51!
*3rd Place*  - Guay, at 24!

*Total Style Points* - 8

*Total Missed Rupees* - 101
*Total Lost Rupees* - 138

----------


## Rater202

Too me longer to watch the second half of the vid than I thought it would."I've been so cold that I could feel my bones"

...That's not normal? You're not supposed to feel like that all the time?

I mean, Zodi, we know that she's never had a boyfriend. So unless she's had casual sex or had a girlfriend at some point she probably is a virgin.

...And gonna be honest, I don't get "casual sex" from her character.

The bad ending of this route probably appeals to one specific group of people and no one else.

Flower language is a lot more complicated than Rosemary is giving. If you know what you're doing, arrangements of plants and flowers can convey complex meanings. For example, an arrangement of asphodel and wormwood can be taken to mean "It brings me pain and sadness that Lilly is gone and my bitter regrets about it will follow me to the grave."

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the Twilight parallels. I mean, as far as I can tell this is better written than Twilight, but a sparkly golden-eyed immortal supernatural being who feels above and is driven to prey on humans but abstains out of moral obligation falls for interesting and allegedly ordinary but the actually exceptional mortal human girl is... Yeah.

Like, yeah. This is better Twilight. The Bloodthirst in Twilight is easily sated by animal blood and when this plot-relevant in the case of Edward and Bella it's just a conflict ball and more generally creates a conflict between "Selfrightous vegans" and "murderous cannibal douchebags" that goes nowhere becuase the "vegan" vampires don't do anything about the "cannibal jackass" vampires and are even friends with some of them despite
thinking that feeding on humans is immoral.

It also explicitly rejects the idea that the superiority of dragons makes it morally okay to eat humans... A claim that Meyer has explicitly made regarding vampires.

This arc in a single conversation really hammers home exactly what it means to be in love with someone who has a constant compulsion to kill and eat you that they can barely resist.

And the simple fact that Tirune knows what human tastes likeand the difference between an ordinary and exceptional onemeans that while he didn't eat Carmelia, he may have eaten someone else. More than once Possibly a slip-up, or maybe... before he came to a moral conclusion about it It's not garrunteed, he mentions that genetic memory thing, but...

At the same time, Rosemary makes a lot of good points herself. If someone knows the risk should they be allowed to try it? Normally I'd say yes, but it isn't just rosemary at risk. Tirune almost certainly would feel terrible if he lost control and ate her, judging from just how far he's going to minimize the risk... And as he alludes to, the frail, clumsy human form isn't his real self. His true self is a monster, a primal force of nature that could hurt Rosemary _by accident_. And if he lost control there'd be nothing she could do to defend herselfshe's strong, but she's not that strong. Any relationship between the two of them would require Tirune to spend all of his time, or at least most of it, in a weak, clumsy body that he may honestly be uncomfortable with, and even if he's willing to do that it's not really fair.

Like, I think the "I'll just have to kill you first if you lose control" thing... Yeah, you're right, it kind of rules... But it's basically Rosemary admitting that any relationship between the two of them is doomed to end in tragic violence... And that that's not a deterrent for her. With the choice you made it seems like she's determined to enter a relationship even though she knows it's gonna end with one dead and the other heartbroken.

This is real heavy, Doc.

I think I prefer Kuya. The Kuya route was a very cute story, albeit one with a rough yet hilarious start. This is just depressing.

I'm also taking notes. I've got a character who feels its dangerous for others to be around her so this is a gold mine.

As for Bella being a "Van Helsing." Meyer is on record as having stated that there's no conceivable way for a human to compete with a vampire. Vampires are just inherently better than humans in every conceivable way* I don't think dedicated vampire hunters exist in the setting and if they did they're all die in their first encounter unless the vampire in question actively went out of their way to let the hunter live.

Twilight as a setting is kind of a hellhole.

There's a Twilight/Supernatural crossover fanfic called Wedding Crashers that can be best summarized as "the likable characters from Twilight get set free from association with the others, the actively murderous ones be dead, and the unlikeable characters/people ignorant of their harm get utterly humiliated." Also, realistic human reactions to all of the disturbing/tacky/pretentious/creepy/hypocritical things the Twilight cast does.

It's a good read... But, admittedly, some of the Winchesters' comments about Edward, and the vampires in general, include occasional touches of homophobic language which may be a deal-breaker. It has a page on TVtropes.

Oh hey, evil dragon, doesn't give a crap about human rights just loves to eat humans who the good dragon needs to protect the human female lead from. 

God, the only thing we're missing is the werewolf. Hopefully minus the bit about falling into obsessive infatuation and lust with small children and raising them to be your partner.

Oh my god, Rana is literally reading out Meyer's treatise on why it's okay for vampires to kill and eat humans and it's being treated like a bad thing. This is almost 1 to 1 a "how Twilight should have gone down" story.

Yeah, Rana's head is probably being stuffed and mounted to be presented as a gift to the rulers of the human kingdom as Tirune and Rosemary are speaking.

And next time we shall see what Mr. Scruffy and Grunkle Elfo have to add to the story.

*Personally I'd like to see how well Sparklepires can stand up to a nuke, but that would cause undue collateral damage.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Rater, I've never read Twilight because Twilight is garbage. I only see Beastars in this: Tirune is an ancient incredibly matured Lagoshi, and Rosemary is just a more badass Haru. because this entire route is reminiscent of how Beastars would play out an interspecies romance like this. its just as filled with drama and depression as Beastars, its the conflict of Beastars, I'm telling you Tirune's route is Beastars.

----------


## Rater202

> Rater, I've never read Twilight because Twilight is garbage. I only see Beastars in this: Tirune is an ancient incredibly matured Lagoshi, and Rosemary is just a more badass Haru. because this entire route is reminiscent of how Beastars would play out an interspecies romance like this. its just as filled with drama and depression as Beastars, its the conflict of Beastars, I'm telling you Tirune's route is Beastars.


It can't be Beastars, becuase Beastars used "I want to eat you" as a metaphor for "I want to **** you" instead of as a conflict towards that goal.

Like, seriously, the first time Haru and Lugoshi tried to have sex Haru instinctively tried to feed herself to Lugoshi.

In general, BEastars very heavily sexualized (effectively)cannibalism. Albeit quite often in the form of sexual violence, it's just kind of treated sexually in general.

It also had such strange things as the reveal that Predators instinctively feel the need to protect herbivores... But still want to eat them.

The Meat Market where stolen corpses and small children are sold as food, among other... More ambiguous things, (and just crime in general) is operating more or less openly... But when Lugoshi eats consensually donated flesh, from someone who honestly didn't want that body part anyway, in order to get a vital power up in an emergency situation the authorities crackdown on his ass hard up to and including deciding who he can and can't marry.

Meanwhile, that one asshat student who regularly attends the meat market and eats flesh just keeps going on and on and on and even gets romantically involved with a herbivore girl.

There's no such sexualization or hypocrisy here. Tirune's desire to eat Rosemary is presented as a bad thing and discussed seriously instead of used as a metaphor for sexuality or sexualized in general. And it is exclusively presented as a bad thing, with the person who desires to eat people without any remorse being treated as a clear cut villain.

So this is closer to Twilight, with the caveat that it took the ideas behind Twilight and... Made them actually work.

And honestly, it's the fact that Tirune's skin explcitly sparkles int he sunight that cinches it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I don't see how, I'm pretty sure the Panda's talk with Lagoshi explicitly makes sure the sex and eating urges as two different things, and that evidence showed the urges interfering with one another, not working together.

----------


## Rater202

> I don't see how, I'm pretty sure the Panda's talk with Lagoshi explicitly makes sure the sex and eating urges as two different things, and that evidence showed the urges interfering with one another, not working together.


That was making sure Lugohshi's feelings for Haru were leigmtate instead of base instinct. Feeding, yes, but also lust in general... Remember, the treatment involved handing Lugoshi an all rabbit nudie magazine.

And yes, the two urges made things more complicated... But the eating thing was still often _framed_ sexually.

For example, Melon's whole thing is that he's super ****ed up in part becuase his mother frequently abused him sexually... And also openly expressed he desire to eat him while doing so. And literally named him after food.

----------


## LaZodiac

Was busy with far more important things, here is the VOD!

*Zodi Streams: Rose of Winter [2] Uncle, Drifter*

*Video Length: 3:01:54*

We finish up Rose of Winter, by tackling the last two prospective princes. Falkner, a fascinating individual, short in stature but large in personality. Crow, a mysterious drifter man, a full on scruffy hotty. All in all, pretty decent stories.

I say my final thoughts in the video proper, but in summary; the game is good! I feel like Kuya's path was the best both in pacing and writing quality, but the others were well executed and compelling as well. My only real "complaint" (really more of a joke) is that I'd have liked there to be a queer option.

----------


## Rater202

Yes, Kuya is the best-paced and best-written, followed shortly by Tirune.

...Of what I've seen, that is. I admit, everything after Kuya has trouble holding my attention. I imagine that I'd have lost interest entirely if you'd gone in order.

The pacing might be why it's taking me so long to follow these VoDs.

Regarding a Queer option? _Heaven Will Be Mine,_ by the same company that made this(incidentally, a kinda-sorta sequel to _We Know The Devil_) is pretty much nothing but Queer options.

Giant Robot fights in space with technology that _basically_ makes it impossible for warfare to have lasting consequences, meaning that colonies and corporations acting in space have turned Warfare into an excuse to get to know your opponent and debate them into your way of thinking... And all three of the possible protagonists are interested in each other sexually and are trying to convince defections as much so hey can be together long-term as for the goals of their respective factions.*Spoiler*
Show

And the endings, determined by which of the three factions 'wins', results in the protagonist screwing over that faction, achieving it's ultimate goal in a way that benefits people in general instead of benefitting the faction at the expense of others.


And while romance isn't exactly a focus, _We Know The Devil_ properly in every ending has at least two of the three protagonists "together" and since only one of the protagonists is a boy... *Spoiler*
Show

Or rather, all three of them are girls, but Venus only hatches in the True Ending and the Ending where she gets excluded.


However, the endings but the True ending are bitter-sweet with the focus on the bitter so...

The True ending is unambiguously happy though.*Pre-Written commentary*

As an aside, my mother and stepfather were *both* late to their wedding. My stepfather also shared an anecdote about a relative that was late to his own _funeral_.

Falkner is not a leg man. Or perhaps he's just intimidated by a girl for whom _every day is leg day._

Oh, no. Come on, Rose of Winter, you were doing so well and then you perpetuate the stereotype of wolves being monsters.

Okay, when Rosemary started crying my thoughts went straight to the old legends about what happens if mortals eat fairy food. The_ best-case_ scenario is that mortal food just won't satisfy you anymore. You've tasted nectar and sweet ambrosia and now even the finest steak and caviar turns to ash in your mouth while neither water nor wine can quench your thirst. Good that that wasn't it.

----------


## Rater202

Oh hey, virtual Zodi. Been a while since we saw that avatar.

...also wow, this is so obviously a Hideo Kojima title.

Stealth combat game, a seemingly straightforward plot just waiting to get a lo more convoluted, a gimmick involving manipulation of the physical peripherals, you're sent on a mission without actually being adequately prepared with the assumption that you'll just find the tools you need, and plenty of gratuitous movie and literature references up to and including the main character*

This is basically just refluffed Metal Gear. All that's missing is a strong, sympathetic female character who is somehow being exploited and dies tragically for reasons outside of her control or yours.

...am I talking about Sniper Wolf, Olga, Helena, The Boss, Eva, Naomi, the entire Beast and Beauty Brigaid, Eliza/Uslala, Paz, or Strangelove? honorable mention to Emma. And probably Quiet, who was never officially killed off but is implied to have willingly let herself die of exposure in the desert and even if she hadn't is infected with deadly parasites that just went active.

And the game is young so, plenty of time.

...zodi I beg to differ. I'm only 41 minutes in and I can see the common ground with Metal Gear. Also, I think you missed a chest in the first dungeon.

@Raz: Hideo Kojima made a game where you're a penguin running across the ice. He's done the rainbow when it comes to games.

Shotguns are always a valuable weapon in the hands of a monster-slayer. Even if it has super toughness or regeneration ver few things won't be at least momentarily stunned by a faceful of buckshot at point-blank. And if you've got something a bit heartier in the barrel or ti's a magic shotgun, all the better.

I find the L/R confusion thing to be fascinating. It's an example of how language shapes perception. since the Japanese language doesn't use R phonemes, someone who only speaks Japanese and only hears Japanese will actually _hear_ L phonemes as mispronounced r phonemes, at last according to surveys.

Bringing this back to the Kojima discussion, this is why the patriots censor themselves to be called "La Li Lu Le Lo." Those are l phonemes in the traditional order that vowel sounds are recited in when teaching children, but because of this phenomenon to Japanese speaking ears, especially the older generations, it sounds like total gibberish.

...Granted, recent generations have put more emphasis on English in education. I've got a friend who lives in Tokyo who mentioned that English is a required education... On the other hand, he got bullied for being fully fluent in English before he was supposed to be as a kid and the school administration suggested he "forget it" until official lessons started.

He works as a translator now. Helped with the English localization of Elden Ring.

Too bad most video game shotguns only have a fraction the range of real ones.

Gotta be careful with that there darkness. Don't wanna be eaten by a Grue.

*There's a Spaghetti western from 1966 called _Django_ and the so-named protagonist is characterized by his habit of dragging a coffin behind him. There were a lot of spin-offs, ripoffs, and imitators but only one official sequel. The orignal was a _major_ influence on Quentin Tarintino.

----------


## LaZodiac

Right I should post the vod.

*Zodi Streams: Boktai [1] Count, Woof, and Giant*

*Video Length: 3:54:03*

Sorry for the late posting, was spending time with my girlfriend.

In this, we begin Boktai! One of my favorite game series of all time! We are the Solar Boy Django, a young gunslinger wielding the Gun del Sol, what is effectively a laser pistol powered by the sun itself. By our side is Master Otenko, a sunflower spirit who guides us, compliments us (which rules honestly more mentors should be just casually nice), and sets up our immortal killing solar array death laser system, the Pile Driver. 

It kinda kicks ass. We hunt vampires... and other beings classified as Immortal, powered by Dark Matter. They have never truly lived, and cannot truly die, so we must eradicate them from existence here, in Istrakan, the City of the Dead. Called such because... any civilization that has died gets sucked up into it, in a locked pocket of time. It's basically the set up to a Dark Souls style game which is brilliant and now that I've realized it I want a Boktai style Dark Souls game. There's even a lot of sun based holy magic!

For this stream, we burn our way through three immortals; the unbelievably cool Count of Groundsoaking Blood, the life-rending Freezing Wolf Garmr, and the body crushing Flame Giant Muspel. As you can see, beyond just wild west aesthetic and vampire hunting, there's also just a lot of norse mythos getting thrown around. It's pretty sweet. There's... other things, but we'll get to them.

------

Responses to Rater: Yeah the writing does have that Kojima flare to it, but not AS complicated as Metal Gear. And Django's not the only reference we'll get to cowboy movies, as you'll see as you watch!

----------


## Lord Raziere

though Sabata is proof that the supermassive black hole of the galaxy has a will and its apparently "death to this planet in particular".

also, the sol bank kind of implies there is parallel universe Django's. meaning there is a bunch of Django's on the same undead-killing journey. 

so its like, there is some weird cosmic plot in the background that this early jojo plot is apart of, and I'm more interested in that cosmic weirdness.

----------


## Rater202

Oh, hey, antagonistic evil twin who says weird confusing plot things. Check off another box on the Metal Gear similarity.

This might as well be Metal Gear Sunny: Undeadening

----------


## LaZodiac

> though Sabata is proof that the supermassive black hole of the galaxy has a will and its apparently "death to this planet in particular".
> 
> also, the sol bank kind of implies there is parallel universe Django's. meaning there is a bunch of Django's on the same undead-killing journey. 
> 
> so its like, there is some weird cosmic plot in the background that this early jojo plot is apart of, and I'm more interested in that cosmic weirdness.


We don't know if Sabata is telling the truth or not about this, I will note! Beyond the fact that he is the Darkness Boy.




> Oh, hey, antagonistic evil twin who says weird confusing plot things. Check off another box on the Metal Gear similarity.
> 
> This might as well be Metal Gear Sunny: Undeadening


The only thing it's missing is mechs! And uncomfortable fanservice, but I can say with confidence only one of these two happen (and I will not be saying which to leave it a mystery)

----------


## Rater202

Calling it a night when there's still about an hour left in the Vod?

Yeah, that's a press X to doubt moment.

Also, there's a plane that looks harvestable and you not harvesting it gives me anxiety. It looked to be the same hight as the over-ripe plant, so... Hope I'm wrong and just don't know how the plants work.

Edit: Zodi... I am, allgedl, a genius. According to an IQ test I took when I was younger, my IQ is 185, which is 25 points higher than Dr. Hawking. It's probably actually not that high looking at my track record, but I am a pretty smart cookie regardless.

I had no idea how to solve that sliding block puzzle.

You are not dumb, sliding block puzzles are just kind of bull****.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Calling it a night when there's still about an hour left in the Vod?
> 
> Yeah, that's a press X to doubt moment.
> 
> Also, there's a plane that looks harvestable and you not harvesting it gives me anxiety. It looked to be the same hight as the over-ripe plant, so... Hope I'm wrong and just don't know how the plants work.
> 
> Edit: Zodi... I am, allgedl, a genius. According to an IQ test I took when I was younger, my IQ is 185, which is 25 points higher than Dr. Hawking. It's probably actually not that high looking at my track record, but I am a pretty smart cookie regardless.
> 
> I had no idea how to solve that sliding block puzzle.
> ...


I got peer pressured into doing a fire dungeon (jokingly).

That plant isn't done yet!

IQ tests only test a specific thing, and because the baseline of "what is 100" sshifts every year or so, the number is useless except for tracking specific types of intelligence. Block pushing puzzles, aka spatial awareness, is not the type of intelligence these tests study.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*On Boktai stream 2:*
Beatmania frame.......okay. thats a bit of a left turn.

you should've paid more attention to the directions Otenko said about the which direction is upper left and such. see? it worked.

also sunflowers are computers in this universe. Otenko is clearly a highly advanced AI, the latest in flowerputing.

all these circles make squares....all these circles makes squares.....all these circles makes squares....

pretty sure "cockatr-eye-ce" is right. its what I've heard other people say it.

wow, never thought I'd see the wise mentor encourage the hero to go on the offensive on a rival like this. usually its the mentor cautioning the hero from being too reckless.

oh no, Otenko got Obi-wan'd! 

so like what, is Otenko just Django's voice-Piccolo now?

the four elemental powers have been gathered with this we form....captain Sun!

For Smash bros, I'd pick Shantae, one of the Living Jars from Elden Ring because it'd be funny, Aya from Crosscode, and Ammy from Okami. 

....did that vampire just imply Django is a half-human hybrid of sun and moon?

okay, its a big eight.... 
red + blue equals purple, 
yellow plus red equals orange, 
yellow plus blue equals green, 
and red plus blue plus yellow equals black.

assuming black is eight.....red, blue and yellow need to be numbers that add up to eight. what three numbers add up to eight? since it can't be all the same number I'm assuming, I therefore have to assume its some combination of 1, 3 and 4. 

if 1 is red and blue is 3, that makes sense for purple being another four, as that covers the purple part.

if yellow is 4 and red is 1, that also makes sense as it adds up to 5 and thus explains the the top and bottom parts.

thus yellow and blue is 3 and 4, which makes 7, which due to the way digital stuff makes a seven goes like this:
 _
| |
  |

thus explaining the green parts.

solved, now I can move on with the video myself.

wait what, why is it NINE!? .....those game designer jerks they switched the number solutions around! 

.......wait Django knew his mother? he's luckier than most fantasy protagonists!

*Spoiler: the twist*
Show

Hel is Django's aunt!? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD......:P


that is not the wild west means, Sabata, your just being an edgy teen throwing around stupid nonsense terms.

I tried looking up the phrase "robots are for everyone" but it didn't get me any good results so I'm stumped as to what next stream is.

----------


## LaZodiac

You'll see Raziere. Also yeah VOD for Boktai whoops.

*Zodi Streams: Boktai [2] Snake, Evil Space Mom*

Video Length: 5:23:33

My only regret with streaming this as opposed to doing a full playthrough is that I won't get to remember to make a save slot just for fighting Sabata whenever I get the itch to have a wild west gun duel.

Anyway yeah, Boktai! Hope you all enjoyed this wonderful game. We shot our mom and or aunt in the face, we punched our brother, and we saved the world. Praise the sun and all that.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I'm just annoyed that I paused the stream, took the time to write up a perfectly logical solution to that entire puzzle that if my initial assumption was correct, would've solved it.....then it turns out Kojima switch the 9 and 8 around so that you'd have to figure out that the 9 from the previous puzzle is referring to the solution of this one. 

aside from that its pretty interesting spin on the fighting undead thing.

----------


## Rater202

Haven't watched the stream yet since it was acting funky last night... And also I got cought up in writing... But yes, Raz. Having looked it up Djang is both moon child and solar child.

But my first thought when I fear the phrase "robots [are] for everyone" is Cubix.

...Was there a Cubix licensed game at some point?

----------


## Qwertystop

> Haven't watched the stream yet since it was acting funky last night... And also I got cought up in writing... But yes, Raz. Having looked it up Djang is both moon child and solar child.
> 
> But my first thought when I fear the phrase "robots [are] for everyone" is Cubix.
> 
> ...Was there a Cubix licensed game at some point?


There were several, in fact.

----------


## Rater202

Regarding the discussion of degrees kelvin: 0 K is -273.15 c or -459.67 f.

0 k is like, the platonic ideal of coldness. If a state of coldness lower than that exists, we don't know to begin to detect it.

Edit: n the topic of Smash... Honestly, with Sora getting into Smash ultimate I don't think I have any dream picks left. Maybe Razputin.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

> Regarding the discussion of degrees kelvin: 0 K is -273.15 c or -459.67 f.
> 
> 0 k is like, the platonic ideal of coldness. If a state of coldness lower than that exists, we don't know to begin to detect it.
> 
> Edit: n the topic of Smash... Honestly, with Sora getting into Smash ultimate I don't think I have any dream picks left. Maybe Razputin.


0 K, or Absolute Zero, is undetectable because of how we detect things. A state of absolute zero has zero energy, zero movement, all the way down to the molecular level. We generally observe things by bouncing something off of them and observing the reflection. We see by how photons reflect off of physical objects and our eyes pick it up. However, if something is an an Absolute Zero state, then anything bouncing off of them, by definition, imparts at least some energy through Conservation of Momentum, which means the object is no longer at Absolute Zero. The particle used to observe the object itself imparts enough energy that the observed object is no longer at Absolute Zero. 

Because of the laws of thermodynamics, we can't simply heat up the area around it either, to observe a void, because heat moves from highest state to lowest state and Absolute Zero is, by definition, the lowest state possible. Thus energy will move from the background to the object, meaning it will no longer be at Absolute Zero by the time we are capable of detecting the void it represents. 

So yea, something at Absolute Zero is so cold, even the act of observation heats it up to some warmer state.

----------


## Rater202

It took me way too long to finish this.

1: Carmilla being purified sounds... A touch suggestive.

2: I used to be good at math. Then college happened.

3: Having looked it up, Django and Sabata are supposed to be an unspecified age between 13 and 16. Since this is a series, I imagine that they're at the lower end of the spectrum here and the higher end of the spectrum in their last appearance.

4: Hel's true form looks like Obelix the Tormentor.

----------


## LaZodiac

Robots for EVERYONE. Whether you like it or not...

*Zodi Streams: Cubix Showdown [1] Mystery Robot Game*

*Video Length: 3:28:00*

In this stream, we play the semi-remembered quasi-childhood game of Qwerty, one of my beautiful girlfriends. Beep boop! Game is surprisingly enjoyable, and has fantastic robot animations... just don't look too closely at the humans.

----------


## Rater202

Called it!

...No use of show theme song, minus -1000 points.

Gotta admit, my memories of Cubix are limited but I remember enjoying it and there are some very clear moments in my mind. Toward the end of the second season the main bad guy, Doctor K, has his plan for the season go horribly awry and he ended up having to team up with the heroes and they were hiding out in his secret layer, which appeared to be a zeppelin... And the girl says "great, just what me need, to be surrounded by hot hair" and he's like "if you're referring to the blimp then it's exactly what we need" and he fiddles with the controls and it turns into a giant robot and that's such a badass line.

...Okay, there is no possible way this could be the case, but the VA for the bad sounds exactly like Little Koriboh. I hear Marik. I hear Frieza. And, and I think that's the show actor so...

...I must find out if LK was a fan of Cubix.

Don't forget that the giant ice cream is a giant robot, Zodi. Because of course, it is.

...Damn it, now I want a doughnut.

...This game is weird.

...If the hippity-hop bot is a microwave then why does it have a cockpit?

----------


## LaZodiac

Hop2IX is meant to be a taxi and I've been spending all my waking hours just, processing "why is it radiation type then????" in the back of my brain. It's just jammed into the back of my head like a bitcoin mining rig.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Hop2IX is meant to be a taxi and I've been spending all my waking hours just, processing "why is it radiation type then????" in the back of my brain. It's just jammed into the back of my head like a bitcoin mining rig.


Zodi.

we've been over this.

to be a microwave. 

while your riding your taxi.

what, don't you hail a taxi then pay your taxi driver to make something to eat in the taxi microwave while going to your destination?  :Small Amused:

----------


## Rater202

All I can think watching this is that Cubix runs on a combination of Solex and the power of love and friendship. These generic chorebots shouldn't stand a chance even with the Solex power-up.

Cubix's power is supposed to be beyond compare. Like, I distinctly remember it being a plot point that Cubix is just, objectively better than almost every other robot. Maximix had an existential crisis over it in one episode.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Zodi.
> 
> we've been over this.
> 
> to be a microwave. 
> 
> while your riding your taxi.
> 
> what, don't you hail a taxi then pay your taxi driver to make something to eat in the taxi microwave while going to your destination?


This sounds hideously dangerous given it's a bouncy spring robot.




> All I can think watching this is that Cubix runs on a combination of Solex and the power of love and friendship. These generic chorebots shouldn't stand a chance even with the Solex power-up.
> 
> Cubix's power is supposed to be beyond compare. Like, I distinctly remember it being a plot point that Cubix is just, objectively better than almost every other robot. Maximix had an existential crisis over it in one episode.


Fascinating! I intend to watch some of the show again just to like, get a taste for it. Will look for that.

Also I finally got around to recording more Majora! Tomorrow!!

----------


## Rater202

> This sounds hideously dangerous given it's a bouncy spring robot.
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating! I intend to watch some of the show again just to like, get a taste for it. Will look for that.
> 
> Also I finally got around to recording more Majora! Tomorrow!!


Have your tissues ready for the episode with Klank. That's one of the few episodes I could remember clearly. As a child it left me with a bitter taste in my mouth but now that I'm older I _get it._

----------


## Lord Raziere

> This sounds hideously dangerous given it's a bouncy spring robot.


Of course not, robots are for everyone remember? if there are safety concerns, then there would be people that robot wouldn't be for, therefore it has to be safe to be for everyone. surely there is no downsides or danger to anyone to bouncy around in a taxi/microwave to get to your destination, the Solex overlords say it, so it must be true.

----------


## LaZodiac

How's about a new Zeldo today?

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [10] Lens Me A Hand*

*Video Length: 35:13*

In this episode, we finally set off to prepare the second main area of the game! Snowhead, a mountainous region of ice and snow, inhabited by everyone's favorite rock themed oni giants, the Goron! Unfortunately this place is frozen over and getting worse... lets hope we can save it before everyone turns into a popsicle! And also dies! With the help of our every watchful owl friend we get a new tool that'll help us with hidden things, and with THAT we find a rather... unfortunate spirit.

One climb up a sheer cliff later, and we've got our second major mask; the Goron Mask! With this, we'll be able to turn into a lovable Goron warrior of unparalleled power! But we'll see just how strong he is next time; until then, take care!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 10: Loop 4, Day 1*
well, back to cursed time loop to retrieve some creepy guy's creepy mask.

haha, we are saved from the Tingle man, the curse of his presence is short with the abjuration of money!

I live somewhere nice and pleasant, so ice cold conditions like this place are rare for me, like maybe 2-3 days out of a year at most if it happens at all.

in a couple timelines, the owl watches Link fall to his death off invisible platforms and goes "......whelp, this went poorly very quickly. I think I'm not going to tell anyone about this."

Goron Link: Nintendo basically going "I see your Sonic rolling, Sony and raise you a goron with spikes that is one of Link's forms."

aaaaand they immediately mistake you for their dead hero. this would be incredibly awkward if Darmani had a girlfriend.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

In the original version, the goron city would not let you in as Hylian Link, you had to be Goron Link to get in, however he was indeed placed above the entrance.

Ice physics are perfectly balanced and fine and have no problems whatsoever. Said no one ever. This won't be the last time you have problem with ice physics. 

I think the scar on the goron ghost's belly predates his departure. He said he was a veteran, so he's seen other combat before his demise, it makes sense that he would have scars from those battles.

Goron transformation, one of the most octane-boosted nightmare fuel images I have ever seen, easily on par with FNAF. Not only took a trip to Uncanny Valley, but dived all the way down to the bottom.

The butt-bump was waaay more badonkadonk, dat goron had way more junk in his trunk, and it was extremely... exaggerated for effect. Don't dis the badonka-donk bonk. 

When transformed into Deku/Goron/Zora people will mistake you for the dead dude you turned into a mask. Kinda creepy if you ask me. 

This hot water run coming up was extremely frustrating for me personally. The time limits are pretty harsh for some of the places you want to go, and heading all the way back up to the grave for more hot water felt punitively harsh.

----------


## LaZodiac

> In the original version, the goron city would not let you in as Hylian Link, you had to be Goron Link to get in, however he was indeed placed above the entrance.
> 
> Ice physics are perfectly balanced and fine and have no problems whatsoever. Said no one ever. This won't be the last time you have problem with ice physics. 
> 
> I think the scar on the goron ghost's belly predates his departure. He said he was a veteran, so he's seen other combat before his demise, it makes sense that he would have scars from those battles.
> 
> This hot water run coming up was extremely frustrating for me personally. The time limits are pretty harsh for some of the places you want to go, and heading all the way back up to the grave for more hot water felt punitively harsh.


Ah, right!

Ice physics... v_v

Good point on the scar!

You're going to be incredibly salty when I show the second, far more accessible hot spring.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> You're going to be incredibly salty when I show the second, far more accessible hot spring.


Ah yes, incredibly random cooking termy. the most random cooking termed. how random cooking term of you.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## LaZodiac

> Ah yes, incredibly random cooking termy. the most random cooking termed. how random cooking term of you.


Salty as a term actually comes from sailors, with the idea being it was a synonym for vulgar because "sailors are that", and sailors are often salty because they sail on the sea all the time and stuff.

Also you ever like, eat raw salt? It tastes exactly like learning you missed something that could have made things easier.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Salty as a term actually comes from sailors, with the idea being it was a synonym for vulgar because "sailors are that", and sailors are often salty because they sail on the sea all the time and stuff.
> 
> Also you ever like, eat raw salt? It tastes exactly like learning you missed something that could have made things easier.


I mean, I've tasted bits of salt from shakers without putting them on food and I liked it, so if thats raw salt, my taste is just different I guess because I don't associate salt with anger or badness. if thats not raw salt, I have no idea what it tastes like.

----------


## DataNinja

Well, this sure is a happy and cheerful game.

----------


## Rater202

I bet that Link wishes he had pants right now.

----------


## LaZodiac

*rolls around in a ball*

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [11] Slow Your Roll*

*Video Length: 27:11*

In this episode, we make use of the fact that we have another dead soul turned into a magical disguise. Tricking people into thinking their loved one and hero is alive and helping soothe a child's sadness at the inevitability of his dad dying.

You know, for kids!

Jokes aside, a short but sweet episode as we roll our way to Snowhead Temple and prepare for the actual full on dungeon run. Hope you all enjoyed!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 11: Loop 4, Day 1, Part B*
Goron is become sonic. Live and leaaaaaarrn....

Dog is pet! Goron pet dead dog hard. dog is dead.

and so we stopped a baby from crying to relight torches so that we can light more torches so a chandelier can rotate so we can break one of the pots on the chandelier to get some meat in them to take it outside to give it to a starving Goron so we can get a frog hat so we can conduct a choir of frogs with it without anyone knowing. I'm sure the fair folk who designed this puzzle are real proud of you, Zodi.

yeah Legend of Zelda can be vague in its directions and quests at times. 

....so yeah is the giant goron causing a blizzard alive or.....a spirit? because I don't think an alive goron would need the lens of truth to be seen. this giant goron seems like some sort of poltergeist or something, so if they fell off, its not as if they aren't already dead, so what more harm can come to them?

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Majora's Mask 11: Loop 4, Day 1, Part B*
> Goron is become sonic. Live and leaaaaaarrn....
> 
> Dog is pet! Goron pet dead dog hard. dog is dead.
> 
> and so we stopped a baby from crying to relight torches so that we can light more torches so a chandelier can rotate so we can break one of the pots on the chandelier to get some meat in them to take it outside to give it to a starving Goron so we can get a frog hat so we can conduct a choir of frogs with it without anyone knowing. I'm sure the fair folk who designed this puzzle are real proud of you, Zodi.
> 
> yeah Legend of Zelda can be vague in its directions and quests at times. 
> 
> ....so yeah is the giant goron causing a blizzard alive or.....a spirit? because I don't think an alive goron would need the lens of truth to be seen. this giant goron seems like some sort of poltergeist or something, so if they fell off, its not as if they aren't already dead, so what more harm can come to them?


I do not fully recall but I'm pretty sure they show up again and are just like "yeah I got ensorcelled and was just sneezing a lot sorry lol" which is honestly what I'd expect from these oni.

----------


## Rater202

I find i hilarious in kind of a messed up way that everyone thinks that you're domrani even though you only vaguely resemble him but nobody pegs you as the Deku Butler's son even though you look exactly like him.

You think the Goron would be holding up better if they wore pants?

...I still wanna do a story or a roleplay or something that's a Goron, a Twili, and a Zora wandering around Hyrule trying to figure out why humans wear clothes all the time and nobody will tell them.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

The baby was crying so hard he blew out the torches with the force of the wailing... ever seen Kung Fu Hustle? Yea, kinda like that. 

This mask. This [BLEEP]ing mask right here. One of the longest and most convoluted ways to acquire a heart container ever. 

*Spoiler: That Mask*
Show


Okay, so you need to round up the five frogs that make up the 'orchestra' to conduct. One of them is in town, chilling out in that room that has a river/bridge and the bell that summons that guy with the funny fox mask on. 

The other four are the Big Key Minibosses for each of the four dungeons. Yes, the minibosses you need to kill to get the Big Key in each of the four dungeons will turn into the frogs once defeated. And you have to speak to them with that hat on to get them to show up later. 

Now, there's a shortcut for each of the dungeons that sends you straight to the boss of that dungeon. There's a reason for that, which we don't really need to get into here. However, you'll notice there isn't a shortcut to the Big Key Miniboss room. And the Big Key tends to be pretty deep in the dungeons, so you effectively have to mostly clear out each of the four dungeons, plus actually clear Snowhead to bring Spring to the region, to conduct said frogs. In a single three-day cycle. 

All this... for a heart container. 


Not really all that much else happening this episode except getting to Snowhead Temple. The faeries here are *substantially* more difficult to get than Swamp Temple's, so good luck with that. Also, the reward from the Swamp Temple and Snowhead Temple are reversed on the 3DS version from the original. So this *would* normally be the one where you get double mana in the version I played. 

*Spoiler: Great Fairy Rewards*
Show

However, you got lucky and got that in the first temple. Instead, you get what would have been the reward in Swamp Temple, which is the Super Spin Attack, that is largely useless. 

But don't worry, the other two temples have useful things from Faeries. Notably, one has the Great Fairy Sword which is theoretically the most powerful sword in the game, but counts as an item not an actual sword, which means use is exceedingly awkward. So maybe not so useful. Stone Temple has the Blue Ring/Armor Effect: take less damage from all attacks. That's useful no matter what. It's also the most difficult, due to that dungeon's particular gimmick.


Anyway, I'll enjoy seeing how you tackle Snowhead Temple. It certainly threw me for several loops when I first encountered it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ...I still wanna do a story or a roleplay or something that's a Goron, a Twili, and a Zora wandering around Hyrule trying to figure out why humans wear clothes all the time and nobody will tell them.


I mean first one would have to figure out a setting beyond "whatever is made for Link to encounter in whatever iteration of his heroic quest to save Hyrule from Ganon/some evil wizard".

cause the setting is pretty strongly built around Link just being the guy who saves the day every time, in true Nintendo fashion of making great videogames but only the bare minimum of setting. a videogame functions on only providing the minimum amount of setting you need to make the game work, a ttrpg on the other hand requires a setting to be more thought out because the actions of the PCs  are much more free and capable of derailing any plans that could possibly be made. thus things that occur regardless of plans (aka setting) need to be there to keep everything working.

----------


## Rater202

I have like hundreds of characters, sme I've used for things and some of them not but literally none of them would do the violin thing.

the better question, Zodi, is why does the exterminator robot spray its pesticides with enough pressure to actually harm other machines.

the answer, of course, being that the people who make these robots are insane. This is like Battle Network, where all the appliances run by sapient AI with feelings, combined with Medabots where kids are given sapient robots armed with actual weapons and these are treated as toys.

Honestly, it's not fun when you go back to a childhood favorite and realize how messed up they are. This evening I learned something about Digimon Tamers that I _never_ needed to know and wish I could unlearn.

I noticed a few times where you could have had the cubes in place and then made an unneeded turn.

When I first saw the commercials for Spirit Tracks I was hoping that Ghost Zelda following you around and possessing enemies to help with combat and puzzles would be a consistent aspect of the game and not something that was restricted to the one recurring dungeon.

...So I kind of want a Zelda game with a young link protagonist that's kind of like OoT or MM where young Zelda and a bunch of other girls his age have crushes on him, but instead of a traditional Zelda game they're all following him around on the adventure and continuing heir skills o his quest because they all want to make sure he comes home in one piece.

And he's completly oblivious to the fact that they all have a crush on him because he's just a doofy kid.

Exposed battery acid? OSHA or an equivalent does not exist in this universe, does it?

I think Detectix is supposed to be a detective. He's kind of shaped like a magnifying glass.

----------


## LaZodiac

BEHOLD CUBE

*Zodi Streams: Cubix Showdown [2] FRIEND*

*Video Length: 3:25:23*

In which we finish up the robot cube game! It's honestly quite fun, and we end by showing off multiplayer with the ever lovely Qwertystop!

Now the question is; what do I stream next? Next week will be the Megaman X1 and X2 race with Celeste (our forum's ever lovely Mystic Muse) but after that... what do? I'm taking recommendations and suggestions so go wild folk!

------




> the better question, Zodi, is why does the exterminator robot spray its pesticides with enough pressure to actually harm other machines.
> 
> the answer, of course, being that the people who make these robots are insane. This is like Battle Network, where all the appliances run by sapient AI with feelings, combined with Medabots where kids are given sapient robots armed with actual weapons and these are treated as toys.
> 
> Honestly, it's not fun when you go back to a childhood favorite and realize how messed up they are. This evening I learned something about Digimon Tamers that I _never_ needed to know and wish I could unlearn.
> 
> I noticed a few times where you could have had the cubes in place and then made an unneeded turn.
> 
> When I first saw the commercials for Spirit Tracks I was hoping that Ghost Zelda following you around and possessing enemies to help with combat and puzzles would be a consistent aspect of the game and not something that was restricted to the one recurring dungeon.
> ...


I will say at least that it definitely seems the violent things these robots can do is a consequence of Solex making them go berserk and do things they're not supposed to be able to do. Anyone can hurt someone with say, a water hose, but you typically just won't.

Digimon Tamer's is a show that has a lot of genuine, on purpose ****ed up stuff, so I'm enthralled at the idea of there being unintended stuff.

I am bad at this sort of puzzle!

"Puzzle solving game where all of your skills are your comedy harem anime followers" is honestly not that bad of an idea. It's amusing.

Probably meant to be a detective of some sort yeah, especially based on two of his moves...

----------


## Rater202

I don't think it was unintention to be honest*Spoiler*
Show

So I've been lurking on LGBT Meme subreddits and someone posted one of those "realistic transition goals/actual transition goals" things with a picture of Renamon, and it reminded me of a line in the anime where Renamon is asked whether she's a boy or 
a girl and she replies that Digimon doesn't have gender... Which is a drastic oversimplification, to be honest, but...

I distinctly recalled Ruki's family saying something along the lines of "you can be a girl if you want to" so when I looked it up to double-check(I was wrong, they actually say "it doesn't matter you're still part of our family") but when I was looking it up...

According to an officially produced action figure, the tuft of fur on Renamon's chest isn't part of her body, it's a garment that she's ewearing, and she has human-like breasts underneath. They're "featureless." Nonfunctional. If you get what I'm saying, but they exist.

...Which honestly makes the comment about Renamon "wearing" her fur in the anime proper make more sense, but _still_.

I never needed to know that Renamon canonically has human-like hooters. I wish to unlearn this knowledge but I can't.

And now you all have to suffer with me.

...Tamers is still my favorite season. They really play up the magical bond with the partners to the point of literally becoming one with your partner in a way that's nothing but blissful as the two of you achieve apotheosis together...


As for suggestions... I've got nothing. I'd kind of like to see your thoughts on Kingdom Hearts but even *one* of those games would take months... We Know the Devil would be too awkward to discuss on this forum... And...

Bugsnax?

Maybe Metroid Prime? I tried watching the playthrough of that you have on your channel but whatever you were using to record your voice... Yeah?

----------


## LaZodiac

> I don't think it was unintention to be honest*Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> So I've been lurking on LGBT Meme subreddits and someone posted one of those "realistic transition goals/actual transition goals" things with a picture of Renamon, and it reminded me of a line in the anime where Renamon is asked whether she's a boy or 
> a girl and she replies that Digimon doesn't have gender... Which is a drastic oversimplification, to be honest, but...
> 
> I distinctly recalled Ruki's family saying something along the lines of "you can be a girl if you want to" so when I looked it up to double-check(I was wrong, they actually say "it doesn't matter you're still part of our family") but when I was looking it up...
> 
> According to an officially produced action figure, the tuft of fur on Renamon's chest isn't part of her body, it's a garment that she's ewearing, and she has human-like breasts underneath. They're "featureless." Nonfunctional. If you get what I'm saying, but they exist.
> ...


My opinion on Kingdom Hearts is that I unambiguously love it and don't get why people are so confused about the plot it's completely easy to follow. For me. Also fun timing because Kingdom Hearts 4, the 14th canonical KH game, just got announced with gameplay footage! You're right that it'd take a bit though...

Bugsnax is an idea. I've heard nothing but good things about it!

Ooh, that is an idea. I could return to my favorite Metroid Game... and since my Wii is mostly dead I'd have to use Dolphin for that, so it'd be a total return to Prime... hmm...

----------


## Rater202

> My opinion on Kingdom Hearts is that I unambiguously love it and don't get why people are so confused about the plot it's completely easy to follow. For me. Also fun timing because Kingdom Hearts 4, the 14th canonical KH game, just got announced with gameplay footage! You're right that it'd take a bit though...


I know! We've got older and even more skilled sora and we've got Donald and Goofy apparently going to Olympus's Underworld to get help fining Sora and... Are they going to Hades or are they trying to find Auron, he is... Kind of in a similar situation to where Sora is right now? Because its strongly implied that the Auron in II is the actual Auron from FFX, not an alternate.

What I'm curious about is... If you pay attention there's sort of a running theme in the numbered titles about Sora's inner darkness. in the first game, Sora is just a kid and has almost no Darkness. Even when he's turned into a HEartless he has so little darkness that despite his very powerful heart he just becomes an ordinary shadow instead of a more powerful heartless.

(As an aside, in the Manga adaption Kairi recognizes Sora's heartless as Sora because it has Sora's thighs. Manga Kairi is a much more proactive character. She's also impulsive, a little crazy, and thirsty for a tall glass of Sora.)

In 2... Sora's a little more mature, and a little darker. He's very tempted by the idea of becoming a pirate, or of usurping the throne of Pride Rock from Scar and just being king. and... We get Anti-form, where Sora's darkness overwhelms him and he assumes a Heartless-like form that, while very deadly in skilled hands, is objectively weaker than his other forms.

In 3, following his close call in DDD, Sora is able to, when backed into a corner, voluntarily enter Rage Form, here he embraces his darkness for additional power albeit at a bit of a cost. Unlike Ani-form, it doesn't make him weaker or take away the keyblade, he doesn't lose control, but...

If 4 follows up on that theme, we should see Sora being able to use his darkness at will similar to Terra or Riku without... Too many consequences.

Nomura said in an interview that he had a choice between making a Verum Rex game or going straight to KHIV and he decided to do IV first because he was worried for Sora's wellbeing.

----------


## Lord Raziere

.....if your doing either Kingdom Hearts or Bugsnax I won't be watching because for Kingdom Hearts I've already seen them all in the TFS retrospective and didn't see why anyone liked that series. its not even about the plot because the plot of kingdom hearts is like the plot of Metal gear: something that occurs in the background and requires you to step back and piece it all together after you played them. I disliked KH because its like One Piece: Sora is the exact stupid protagonist archetype I can't stand, his companions are even goofier are thus worse and all the worlds are disney ones so its like, Disney why would ruin your own worlds by trying to put an action rpg in them? this doesn't appeal to me.

while Bugsnax......while thematically and probably really well written, I personally found it incredibly creepy and not something I'd want to watch again. like its unsettling but its definitely intended to be that way.

Metroid Prime I'd be fine with, but its not my decision to make.

----------


## Rater202

Also: do not do Bugsnax on an empty stomach.

Was rewatching Kaiserneko's playthrough and made the mistake of doing it just before dinner and I actually caught myself thinking "one Bunger wouldn't kill me."

----------


## Qwertystop

Hm. Could return to Battle Network, play 2. Play another puzzles adventure game, Outer Wilds or Obra Dinn or something. Go into streaming standards, Pokemon or Mario 64 or something. Give speedrunning a try, find a game with a newbie-friendly community (actually I think serval of the above qualify?). Pick some random indie game off Itch, there's loads of lists after the big charity bundles, play one bigger one or a lot of small ones.

----------


## LaZodiac

Zeld!

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [12] Snowhead*

*Video Length: 21:01*

And so we begin Showhead Temple in earnest! Snowhead Temple takes the "hub puzzle" approach to Zelda dungeons, where there is a main feature in a centralized dungeon center which is the main centerpiece for the entire thing, with rooms being spokes off of it. It is also, unfortuntaely, one of the more annoying ones. Not in any bad way, but if you happen to be a little slippery on the controls because it is late at night, or the controls decide to disagree a little bit on just what exactly you wanted to do... falling can be a capital P Problem. 

That said, the puzzles are a good deal more basic than Woodfall's, which is honestly fascinating. Woodfall primes you for Majora's Mask's more advanced styles of puzzle, but Snowhead reins it back a bit to let the centerpiece puzzle shine. Woodfall focused on the bow and arrow in aggregate, while the dungeon item for Snowhead is a lot more focused... though we don't get it this video. Leads to an interesting contrast! A simpler layout with harder puzzles to ease you in, then a more complicated layout with easier puzzles to re-calibrate expectations.

With that said, I hope you enjoyed! We'll see you all next time for the conclusion of snow.

----------


## Rater202

...The sharpened sword is just another blade welded onto the sword you already had.

And how would gold dust...Gold is heavy but it's also soft. A gold-steal alloy might work as a bludgeon but a sword...?

Thinking back on the OoT style Zelda Game where it's a link and all the girls who are crushing on him follow around and their skills are the puzzle-solving tools idea that came from my disappointment with spirit Track's Zelda assists only being a gimmick in the central tower? One of the girls would be a farm girl who develops her crush on Link after you help out her family or her farm. Her gimmick would be that she's *deceptively* strong and the only one who could help with sliding block puzzles because the others just don't have the heroic constitution that she and Link have.

In a dungeon-like this where progress is obstructed by large ice blocks you'd eventually find a set of protective gloves for her and then she'd be able to smash the ice blocks by punching them. she might also be able to pick Link up and toss him to ledges he can't jump to.

...This being a young Link with similarly aged followers, he doesn't quite get why he has to give her a hug before she'll give him a boost.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 12: Loop 4, Day 2*
Huh, no wonder I never saw my brother use the razor sword. he just went straight for the gilded one I think. 

*Zodi rolls into ice*
*gets rebounded to the lava floor of the dungeon*
okay yeah thats weird. I don't think that was supposed to happen either? you might've hit some angle or corner on the ice that made the physics go weird for a second

oh yeah, thats some real terrible platforming. hideous platforming. platforms those small, while invisible, while over some other room requiring to go through other rooms to get back up......agh. I feel the pain just from watching it. 

but yeah this dungeon seems designed on "getting over it" logic: every time you screw up, you fall down to the lower levels and have to make the climb back up just to regain where you once where, resetting your progress not through death but through gravity.  which can be frustrating in its own way.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

New episode!

* Yea, I never bothered with the Razor Sword until I had the Gold Dust. Which... makes zero sense, but it honestly doesn't matter from a mechanics perspective. It's a thing that lets you do another thing as a reward to a quest elsewhere that is gated behind a Thing Done. 

* You made that jump the first time... well, the first time you actually attempted to jump. You have no idea how long it took me to make that jump without bouncing off the wall behind it and into the pit below, and you made it look easy.

* In Majora's Mask, physics are kind of almost a thing? For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You hit the ice block, you get knocked back. And since you are on a slippery surface, it means you go sliding off and down.

* In other words: Ice Physics are perfectly balanced and elegantly implemented and there is nothing wrong with them. Said no one ever. 

* A timing puzzle. One of many you will encounter. And they're all annoying. This one in particular is annoying because if you fall (as you did) you have to go redo this puzzle all over again to get back to where you were. I got real familiar with this puzzle by the time I beat this dungeon.

* Ahh yes, the invisible platforming... ugh.

----------


## LaZodiac

Three, two, one, GO!

*Zodi Streams: Mega Man X1 and X2 Race!*

*Video Length: 3:27:22*

Race time! Me and the ever wonderful Celeste (Mystic Muse on the forum) race through the first two Mega Man games. One of us is a professional speed-runner and the other is me so, it'll be fun to see who wins!

----------


## LaZodiac

Okay, lets finish this dungeon.

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [13] Goht*

*Video Length: 31:06*

The back half of Snowhead Temple! First order of business; the Wizrobes! Not a funny adorable mage like they usually are though, instead some creepy old wizard man who refuses to be locked onto half the time. Not that tricky to deal with though. Beating the first Wizrobe gets us our dungeon item, the Fire Arrows! In a shocking shift from typical Zelda games, the dungeon items are not maneuvering tools or fancy weapons, but pure magical puzzle solving elements! They have combat applications too of course, but for the most part they're for fancy puzzles. I actually think this is pretty cool; aside from the Light Arrows, these were entirely optional in Ocarina, and now they're here to do some actual work. It, like everything else, fully sells the idea that this is a hard mode DLC expansion to Ocarina.

The boss itself, meanwhile, is Goht! In the original game you just pursued him, knocked him down, and then beat on him... or just shot fire arrows at'em. In this one, it's pretty much the same except after knocking Goht down, you have to specifically hit an eyeball growth as opposed to just punching him wherever. Some could argue that just slightly overcomplicates what is really just a very basic "chase and smash" boss fight, but I like it. I also like the addition of how, if you hit it from above due to a ramp, it falls down in away that requires you hit it with the bow. It's part of the desire to make each boss synergistic with both regular Link and his mask form, and it is not unappreciated. At least in this one.

With Goht thoroughly destroyed, another Giant has been saved! Hooray for us! Spring returns to Snowhead proper, clearing up the snow and saving the lives of all the goron! Hooray! Next time, lets see if we can do everything this unlocks in the one day left I have! Oh boy!

----------


## DataNinja

I do like how they seem to be trying to make you use all your toys here. Since not every Zelda game is great at doing that.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 13: Loop 4, Day 2 Part B*
Yeah I can see how Getting Over It With Zelda may not be the best idea for a dungeon.

"oh thank god first try" is never a good line to hear. also why the did camera keep panning downward for that?

the wizzrobe is silly. you need to fight back you dumb wizard! teleporting around without firing danmaku bullets everywhere. silly wizard.

and yeah, I've seen Goht's boss fight before, its pretty cool. chase a cyclops bull/goat around an area with the gorons spike ball, almost as if Darmani was saving the day himself. I don't know why anyone would just stand around and plink him with arrows. 

and now.....tis spring for the gorons. for one day at least. and yes I can imagine doing everything you can with the gorons in spring can be a bit of a rush given how much time the dungeon takes up. and you still have those two fairies to get! and all fifteen of them to return to the fountain.

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Majora's Mask 13: Loop 4, Day 2 Part B*
> Yeah I can see how Getting Over It With Zelda may not be the best idea for a dungeon.
> 
> "oh thank god first try" is never a good line to hear. also why the did camera keep panning downward for that?
> 
> and now.....tis spring for the gorons. for one day at least. and yes I can imagine doing everything you can with the gorons in spring can be a bit of a rush given how much time the dungeon takes up. and you still have those two fairies to get! and all fifteen of them to return to the fountain.


Camera is motion controlled and I think can be adjusted in that scene. That or the camera just adjusting itself, which it does at times as well.

I am pretty doomed but if I can get everything I specifically need it'll be worth it.

----------


## Rater202

Yes another boss that appears to be infected with the G-Virus.

If big red eyes in places that aren't where eyes go is a signature of beings corrupted by Majora...

Sorry, the fanficer part of my brain is going crazy.

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

To continue:

* No, the bunny mask can't get you over, and no you can't cheese the stomp button, but later on once you get the dungeon item you can bypass it. 

* All that effort for a drop of blood stray fairy

* Ahh, there's the miniboss guarding the treasure. I'm pretty sure the 'intended' method is to stand in the middle of the room and shoot it with arrows, but this works better

* That's definitely worth a 'OMG first try!' You're not the only one that remembers that one

* I must be dancing in a dress shirt, undies, and socks 'cause this is some Risky Business!

* Oh yea, *that* stray fairy... /shudder

* Don't mess with the Goron 'cause the Goron don't mess

* Surprise Deku!

* That... is not whom I remember guarding that Big Key...

* Zodi: "There are two ways to do this boss" Me: Ohh, is she gonna do the thing? Is she going to do the thing? Zodi: "We're going to do it the fun way" Me: Oh, okay. 

* The eyeball is new. You just ram it with more goron spiky ball previously. 

* So I guess you could say that he is no longer the GOHT? 

* And now you have less than one day to get everything done in springtime. This time 'round at least. Fortunately, future cycles have a shortcut.

----------


## LaZodiac

> * That's definitely worth a 'OMG first try!' You're not the only one that remembers that one
> 
> * Zodi: "There are two ways to do this boss" Me: Ohh, is he gonna do the thing? Is he going to do the thing? Zodi: "We're going to do it the fun way" Me: Oh, okay. 
> 
> * The eyeball is new. You just ram it with more goron spiky ball previously. 
> 
> * So I guess you could say that he is no longer the GOHT? 
> 
> * And now you have less than one day to get everything done in springtime. This time 'round at least. Fortunately, future cycles have a shortcut.


I remember when I first played the 3DS version, that was my last fairy... and I got it roughly around when the final countdown started. Dicey, to say the least!

She, please.

No longer the greatest of honk time. Poor guy, maybe next year.

I am... unconfident, but we'll see how it goes!

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

> I remember when I first played the 3DS version, that was my last fairy... and I got it roughly around when the final countdown started. Dicey, to say the least!
> 
> She, please.
> 
> No longer the greatest of honk time. Poor guy, maybe next year.
> 
> I am... unconfident, but we'll see how it goes!


Apologies, fixed gender pronouns. 

And hey, even if you can't do everything, at least you can show off the shortcut on the next cycle.

----------


## LaZodiac

Three... two... one... go!
*
Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [14] Race To The Finish*

*Video Length: 40:09*

In this episode, we try to clear up every little task that's available to us post Snowhead Temple! Thankfully there isn't really a lot of those; mainly I need to get the last two fairies, getting the enhanced spin attack for our human guise. After that we need to get to the Goron Race Track and do some racing to get Gold Dust! With Gold Dust, we can temper our Razor Sword into something a lot more powerful, and a lot more permanent! I can't wait to get it, on this cycle, here on the last day, which is a thing you can do. But first we need to get the Powder Keg license; not all that tricky, and this'll be useful to us later too! Once that's done, it's just a bit of cleaning up. Easy peasy!

Hope you all enjoyed this... lets say "chaotic" episode. Take care everyone, hope you all enjoyed!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 14: Loop 4, Day 3*
AKA: Restored Goron% Speedrun
AKA:  Zodi abuses time powers beyond even the Ocarina so that she doesn't have to come back here.

Wait why aren't you playing the song of time backwards to give yourself more time? or did you do that before you start this?

nice pulling off that jump. 

wow your on a timer in more ways than one with that keg.

oh yeah, one-tried the goron race!

oh right, schedule troubles. darn it. can you keep the gold dust through loops? ....no only the bottle. you have to win the dust on future loops. darn it.

yyyeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahh......Legend of Zelda was never one to track its own quests, and Majora's Mask is kind of a "no guide nightmare" on par with dark souls games.

whelp, time's up. ...oh right! you didn't give the fairies back! I forgot. but yeah, WHEW! That was a close one! you almost had to go through that dungeon a third time!

time for Loop 5! guess that gilded sword ain't yours yet. *shrug*

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Majora's Mask 14: Loop 4, Day 3*
> AKA: Restored Goron% Speedrun
> AKA:  Zodi abuses time powers beyond even the Ocarina so that she doesn't have to come back here.
> 
> Wait why aren't you playing the song of time backwards to give yourself more time? or did you do that before you start this?
> 
> nice pulling off that jump. 
> 
> wow your on a timer in more ways than one with that keg.
> ...


Once applied, the Song of Reversed Time sticks till undone or the loop resets, and I put it on at the start of this loop.

The improved Bomber's Notebook really helps with Majora, but there's just no fixing human error sometimes.

The close call with the fairies almost killed me, straight up.

----------


## Rater202

Okay, I'm not gonna lie, testing someone for powder safty by giving them a lit powder keg they have to deliver is kind of a **** move.

Thinking more on the "Young Link Zelda Game where he unknowingly attracts the crushes of girls who follow him around and end up being the problem-solving tools" thing, I'm thinking it would be set after Ocarina of Time but before the Kokoris have become the Koroks. But, you know, the process has started so when you encounter them they've all got greenish or brownish skin and leaves or flowers in their hair. A Kokori girl becomes fascinated with Link and starts following him, and her skill set is similar to the Deku mask in this game.

The time constraints on this game kind of suck.

We're getting into "gotta do the thing to do the thing to do the thing" territory, aren't we?

So I imagine that up next iis the part where you do all the stuff n the other areas that you need spin-attack or Goron mask to do?

----------


## DataNinja

I am so happy you managed to remember the fairies at the end of the episode. I was, the entire time going "uh.... Zodi? Oh no, she's gonna have to do the entire thing all over again, isn't she?" (And, well, turns out she is, but for unrelated reasons.)  :Small Tongue:

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

* I didn't know you could make that jump with bunny mask, I thought you had to go up to the other deku flower and fly over. Noice!

* I always had troubles with the TNT carry. In multiple areas. 

* First try success on the Goron Race? I don't believe I've ever managed that in any playthrough I've done. Congratulations!

* Only to have a problem with the upgrade taking a day. Womp womp. However, now that we know we can beat the boss on Day 1, we can spend a cycle to do it. Progress, of a sort.

* You have to be a Deku to talk to the merchant about swapping deeds, but yes I think you need to buy his item first because it is a plot-relevant persistent upgrade.

* I was wondering if you would forget about the fairies or not.

----------


## LaZodiac

Time to tell you all a story...

*Zodi Streams: Paper Mario [1] Goombs and Koopas and Fuzzies, Oh My!*

*Video Length: 4:27:17*

We begin the Paper Mario stream, which is very fun. Paper Mario is a nostalgic classic for me, that I grew up with and have a fair amount of memories with.

Fittingly, and quite surprising to everyone, especially me; my good good friend Robin is also here! She's a video creator who I've enjoyed for a long time, and she became my friend a small handfull of years ago, and this is a genuine dream come true for me. I hope you all enjoy!

----------


## Lord Raziere

To elaborate on a couple things I couldn't while in the stream:
do you want me to tell you more about the secret of the clearing where Mario fell? its nothing big or needed.

the modded version of Paper Mario I'm playing with also does a bunch of other things to make the game more difficult and fun. imagine going through this game but with newer enemies, encounters designed to be tougher, badges all switched around and such so that going all BP in your levels up isn't an option because the enemies deal too much damage to fix with the HP up badge and getting your dodge action command timing is a required skill to survive. I just finished Dry Dry desert on it, and even the area has been changed so that I had to go through areas filled with enemies and navigate instead of just following the path.

yeah zap tap and peekaboo are pretty great. the latter badge is why I consider Goombario to be pretty useless: his tattle doesn't really tell anything you can't find out yourself and is only really useful for revealing the enemies health bar, his attacks are very basic and doesn't really offer the tactical options that other party members do, and his niche of hitting flying enemies unlike bombette or kooper is filled by someone else better as early as chapter 2. a badge takes away his one real battle use and thus relegates him to basically being that guy who provides color commentary. its why I don't think highly of the goomba, once I realized he's probably the least useful party member and that a lot of his overworld tattles is just him complaining about the environment, one gets the impression that he is basically a nerdy fanboy who really isn't cut out for the life of an adventurer and is just there to tag along after a certain point. (if you want to me say how I'd fix him, I'd say give Goombario magic instead of headbonks, because then he'd have a more distinct identity and ability that Mario can't do himself, as well as making him a good counterpart to Kammy koopa)

Bug Fables is a great improvement and refinement of paper mario's rpg system. having three party members with health bars is balanced out by not getting as much health per level, making investing in health not that beneficial compared to the other two. all three party members can use items so one going down isn't as a big of a deal. all three party members serve distinct niches and roles throughout the adventure both in and out of battle making all of them indispensable. enemies are varied and require different badge loadouts to beat, requiring you to strategize for each boss. combine with great writing and story and you get like probably one of the best rpgs I've ever played. 

I'm still pretty sure that the shell tower attack is the secret attack what Bowser was impressed by given that the same sound effect is used when he witnesses it and by them using it on Mario. I don't know why everyone in the stream though it was the dumb mecha-bowser. 

and yeah, the Peach doing stuff to help Mario in the interludes is great, her efforts are a big reason why Mario succeeds in this game.

----------


## Rater202

A bit late getting to this one, got caught up watching a playthrough of _Cooking Companions_

Anyway, Regarding the Mario named on the house... They're called the "Mario Brothers."

I stand by the headcanon that Peach usually allows herself to be kidnapped because being help captive only to be rescued by Mario makes her hot.

(I also stand by the headcanon that the Peach Beach track in Mario Kart came about because Peach invaded and conquered Isle Delfino in revenge for the abominable way they treated her party on what was supposed to be a relaxing vacation.)

I love cooking my own food but I rarely have time, energy, or the right ingredients on hand. I'm currently looking at a fondue-like cheese sauce that consists of cheddar and gouda melted into a chicken broth that's been seasoned with black pepper and red wine vinegar.

Considering that Peach's castle is bigger on the inside and contains portals to pocket realities hidden in paintings, you probably could stay there forever, little penguin thing. Probably all kinds of nooks and crannies you could hide in.

Zodi, didn't you just watch a cutscene of Bowser stealing an artifact that grants wishes? Clearly, he wished for this to happen.

Ah, RPG-style combat in a series known for platformers. Always an interesting adjustment.

Quick Mario, eat some spinach.

Luckily, being made of paper, Mario is impervious to most forms of fall damage.

So, random thought Princess Peach is clearly a Homo nintendus, the same human subspecies are Mario.

How did she become the Princess of a kingdom whose native inhabitants are one of two species of anthropomorphic mushroom?

I still want a return to Isle Delfino game which involves the Island being an open-world locale just for Mario to get some much-deserved reparations for hw horribly he was treated in Sunshine. An unlockable side game where Wario and Waluigi are actively sabataging Mario only to fail would be an interesting feature in such a game.

Goombario: Wants to be just like the man who has crushed countless members of his own kind to death beneath his feat.

Small child didn't get Vegeta'd. Vegeta defeated Goku and only lost the combined efforts of Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobi wore Vegeta down to the point that Vegeta ran out of energy and so couldn't move out the way when Great Ape Gohan fell on him.

(Seriously, in the entire original run of Dragon Ball, Goku never actually beats Vegeta.)

This is more like a one-shot filler enemy in OG dragon ball.

And I imagine that you'll be finding another more durable hammer later and will have to backtrack.

Robin's avatar is giving me severe Body Envy.

Gonna be honest I'd rather take the girl Goomba than the boy Goomba. The boy's too much of a kissass.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where Gooma's advice isn't always possible to live by.

I was introduced to Disgaea by reading that you literally could reach levels of over nine thousand. Got Afternoon of Darkness afterward and spent literal years working on it, trying so hard to get the best ending only to get the normal ending after I finally beat Lamington. Apparently, I accidentally had *one* party kill that I never noticed or something and oh God was I pissed off.

I love how Red Goomba gets pissed off at you for killing his brother... When 1: They attacked you first and 2: you're Mario and thus he should know better.

King Goomba seems to be a touch senile.

That was just a Kammy-o to set up the interstitial.

Make them grow Kammy. We need to see No Good Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas.

"Please Mario, save her Highness. Her... _Very_ Highness. Because the Castle, it's high up in the sky, you see, and... Yeah."

Luigi: "Mario, loka-out, there's a Gomba behind you." *Jumps on Goombario, killing him instantly* "Thanka God I saw him a sneakin' up onna you."

...My apologies to all the fine people of Italy and various Little Italies for that one.

I really like in Smash Bro's Brawl, when you're playing as Snake and trigger the codec Call Easter Egg for Luigi, the Colonel starts insulting Luigi, and then Snake gets all offended and demands that Luigi be shown some respect. The call gets derailed when it becomes clear that this is actually Patriot! Colonel and not the real one(this being a meta-joke about L phonemes) but it's nice that one of the biggest badasses in gaming thinks that Luigi deserves some respect.

Again, I think Peach gets off on it. Daisy does not.

You're not wicked you drama-llamas. You're just jaded to the fact that this happens two or three times a month.

I can jive with Second Toad Kid's logic.

The question is, what does the Shop get from holding your items?

Are there degrees of degrees at the dojo? Can you go to the Dojo and get a better degree just to show him up?

Note: Chan and Lee, with Lee being an older mentor to Chan?

Jackie Chan got his start in films as a stuntman in Bruce Lee's films.

Minh T. is gonna have the whole of toad town overrun by an invasive species.

"Help us, Dr. Mario Mario, you're our only hope."

"The Adventures of Twink and Mortio."

Zodi, the correct term for an evil power ranger is "Psycho Ranger."

Speaking of Nintendo and Square Enix... I will bet you good money that Tetsuya Nomura considers Sora's smash bros. appearance as canon and will find some way to work a reference to it into the plot of Kingdom Hearts 4. And Nintendo will let him do it because it's free cross-promotion. Really it's only Dinsey saying no that would stop him.

Nomura did not include Final Fantasy characters in Kingdom Hearts III because he felt that the original elements of the series could stand on their own without the need for a boost from "what if Squall and Cloud were in the same game?"

then fans reacted poorly and he said he got the hint.

Although, the World Ends with You elements of DDD included a mention of Sora visiting Shibuya at some point, and low and behold the secret ending of KHIII shows Sora waking up in the middle of a four-way intersection and shows what appears to be the TWEWY version of a building in Shibuya.

...and then the KHIV Trailer shows Sora in a world called Quadratom, a sort of afterlife if you will, that's transparently just Tokyo.

So it may be that he intended to phase them out in favor of another property.

There is a non-canonical X-Men mini-series called "worst X-Men Ever" starring a kid named Baily Hoskins.

Baily had the power to explode. _Once_.

Not to be confused with Explodey Boy, who can explode as many times as he wants with no consequence.

Normally mysterious otherworldly quizmasters are a bad thing. Bad things tend to happen if you answer wrong.

Paper Mario remake where the only difference is you don't have to choose party members, they're all following you at once.

Though they'd have to find some way of making fights more challenging to compensate.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Paper Mario remake where the only difference is you don't have to choose party members, they're all following you at once.
> 
> Though they'd have to find some way of making fights more challenging to compensate.


Well....eh that is actually a lot of party members. thats like eight people following Mario. Bug Fables had to rebalance itself around three party members at once and those party members were all you got. like in Bug Fables you functionally have like 30 hp because each member had like 10hp each. so if you have eight party members plus Mario and they have even 10hp each? thats 90hp, functionally speaking. thats almost as much as the final boss. 

and turns become you deciding like nine different actions each turn. if your not careful you'd probably blow through your FP all at once. I think the most enemies we see on screen in a single battle at once in Paper Mario and thousand year door is something maybe like.....four, maybe six, mechanically speaking? and most often the enemies are 2-4 in number. and those situations are generally when you start breaking the AOE.

so them all being there at once would make the player really overpowered for this combat system. it would be really overdone, when this combat systems strength is its simplicity yet allowing for tactical variance. like you could probably up the damage and health for the enemies but then you ruining the consistency of how its designed for minimal numbers. you don't want to overcomplicate it. 

honestly would ruin this combat system.

----------


## Rater202

Fair enough.Unrelated thought: A Lot f those reincarnation or portal fantasy stories, the ones with RPG mechanic like reality at least, have a gimmic where monsters will "evolve" into a similar but more powerful monster once they become powerful enough. Goblin into hobgoblin into orc into ogre and so on. And sometimes there's a branched path.

When you landed in the cell with the Bob-ombs the idea for something like that got stuck in my head: That Time I got Runover and woke up as an explosive. Protagonist dies in generic reincarnation fashion to a truck and wakes up in the Mushroom Kingdom as a lowly Bob-omb and over time they develop first into a bigger, stronger bob-omb but then into other explosion-related enemies until they're essentially a walking tank that shoots non-sentinet bullet bill drones.

And they're the one who has to defeat Bowser this time because Mario is off on one of those things where it's somebody lese causing problems for a change and Bowser didn't join him on this one.

My mind is weird.

----------


## Lord Raziere

thing is I know there was a homebrew paper mario ttrpg made right here on giantitp, but it was so long ago that I can't really find it, but it was able to like, make most if not all enemy types playable and was based completely on the actual video game system rather than some other game.

you'll soon see what I mean by Jr. Troopa getting "Vegeta'd".

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

> Unrelated thought: A Lot f those reincarnation or portal fantasy stories, the ones with RPG mechanic like reality at least, have a gimmic where monsters will "evolve" into a similar but more powerful monster once they become powerful enough. Goblin into hobgoblin into orc into ogre and so on. And sometimes there's a branched path.
> 
> When you landed in the cell with the Bob-ombs the idea for something like that got stuck in my head: That Time I got Runover and woke up as an explosive. Protagonist dies in generic reincarnation fashion to a truck and wakes up in the Mushroom Kingdom as a lowly Bob-omb and over time they develop first into a bigger, stronger bob-omb but then into other explosion-related enemies until they're essentially a walking tank that shoots non-sentinet bullet bill drones.
> 
> And they're the one who has to defeat Bowser this time because Mario is off on one of those things where it's somebody lese causing problems for a change and Bowser didn't join him on this one.
> 
> My mind is weird.


You know those tanks in SMB3 in World 8? That might be an option for one of the evolution iterations. Then you can go full Voltron/Zord and put multiples together for Giant Mecha With Lots Of Boom.

----------


## LaZodiac

In today's Majora's Mask; t h e m.
*
Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [15] T H E M*

*Video Length: 36:47*

Starting us off, we do all the stuff necessary to get ourselves the Razor Sword on day three. Just nipping that in the bud straight away; I'd rather not have to refight the bosses multiple times if I can afford to, but in this instance it's kind of needed.

With that out of the way... we've got access to Powder Kegs. Time to begin one of the game's loop-long sidequests! The Romani Ranch plotline! One quick Powder Keg to that boulder and we can actually access the dang place before whatever nasty business happens... and what a nasty business it is. According to Romani herself, aliens (specifically the Flatswood Monster type Japan loves so much) are attacking and threatening to kidnap the cows. It's up to us to stop them, because otherwise the cows'll get kidnapped... and Romani will get cownapped. We've seen the end result of that, so lets do our best to prevent it!

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 15: Loop 5, Day 1*
Yeah I can imagine constantly having to redo things in this game can get tiresome. 

Nice design to make the guy run away from the bomb. 

They are coming. THEM. The Theys! They come because They are Them! and we are us. 0_0

Though I imagine this whole interaction with Romani being both oddly nostalgic and kind of surreal for Link, because Romani is basically a carbon copy of Malon but seems to be a completely different person. like her being here is the kind of piece of evidence that makes people think Termina may not exactly be normal. Link encountering someone similar in a different region is one thing, but someone who looks exactly like her, on a farm, as well as skull kid being here, clocktown being this place's hyrule, deku zora and goron kingdoms, Tingle being this dark mirror of Link of being a fairy boy that never grew up, there may something more than just Majora's Mask that is going on here. 

to be fair, they did a good job making this creepy. I'm a little creeped out with this right now. the fact there is no music other the constant noise they make, that there is no explanation for what these...Them are, they don't seem to be connected to Majora's Mask, and I think they're getting faster as dawn gets closer, meaning they seem to know what your doing and trying to hurry up in response....the fact that Romani will get kidnapped and....traumatized....if you fail all well done piece of horror.

But I'd like to point out: Link has time traveled and fought aliens. through this tenuous and fragile logic, he is officially a Time Lord/The Doctor.

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## Rater202

@Raz I think the consense is that Termina is one of Hyrule's mirror worlds. A slightly off parallel dimension that Link stumbled into while following the Majora possessed Skull Kid.

So in a way, Romani and her older sister _are_ Mallon, just not the _same_ Mallon. You'll find counterparts to a lot of people Link met in OoT in Termina.Now, considering that the threat are aliens...

...No wander Romani was the way she was at the end of the loop two loops ago. If she was abducted by aliens... Well, aside from the more crass stereotypes there are still a number of invasive medical procedures up to and including outright vivisection with or without anesthetic. There's also the possibility of lobotomy or brainwashing, force participation in some invasive or horrific experiment, or maybe they were going to eat her but changed their minds at the last minute because the scanner said she was too high in salt.

Any of tose, or a combination of them, would explain the constant thousand-yard stare.

----------


## DataNinja

Oh boy. That... sure is a thing. And, yes, I could see how this'd be terrifying for Kid Zodi.

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## LaZodiac

> Oh boy. That... sure is a thing. And, yes, I could see how this'd be terrifying for Kid Zodi.


Even accounting for the fact that I'm thirty and kicked the **** out of them, they still unsettled me a bit. It's just always been a thing that aliens freak me out.

Fun anecdote time I meant to say in the video; when playing Bloodborne, the first time I met the little cabbage patch kid enemies, the aliens with the big squishy heads, it was at like 1 in the morning. I had been playing it all day, nice and exhausted. It was winter, so quiet and dark and a little cold. I am wandering down a dark foresty path and just... no music. Just the weird pitter-patter of these little guys, as I come across them playing around. They attack, a frozen sort of dread coming over me. Wordlessly, but very tensely, I beat them to death with my cane and walk back the way I came.

I message to my friend online "yeah I should probably get to bed" and immediately just went to bed. Out like a light.

Terrifying ****ing thing.

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## DataNinja

> Even accounting for the fact that I'm thirty and kicked the **** out of them, they still unsettled me a bit. It's just always been a thing that aliens freak me out.


Yeah, no, that's super fair. (I've always been the opposite - aliens were always the coolest thing in the world to me. Guess I stole all of that from you, whoops.  :Small Tongue: )

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## LaZodiac

> Yeah, no, that's super fair. (I've always been the opposite - aliens were always the coolest thing in the world to me. Guess I stole all of that from you, whoops. )


Aliens are cool as ****! I guess it just depends on presentation; Garrus from Mass Effect doesn't feel like an alien to me, he's a cute praying mantis boy. Aliens as monsters are unsettling in a way no other monster IS to me, wheras aliens as people are like, barely a register.

I'm gonna emphasize that I'm someone who enjoys being scared so while I appreciate the concern for poor Zodi, as an adult this stuff is enjoyable even as it unsettles. It's one of the beauties of the human psyche.

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## DataNinja

> Aliens are cool as ****! I guess it just depends on presentation; Garrus from Mass Effect doesn't feel like an alien to me, he's a cute praying mantis boy. Aliens as monsters are unsettling in a way no other monster IS to me, wheras aliens as people are like, barely a register.
> 
> I'm gonna emphasize that I'm someone who enjoys being scared so while I appreciate the concern for poor Zodi, as an adult this stuff is enjoyable even as it unsettles. It's one of the beauties of the human psyche.


Also very fair! I'm one who isn't a fan of horror in general, so, uh, yeah. The fact that people like to seek it out is something that often slips my mind. XP

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## Rater202

> Even accounting for the fact that I'm thirty and kicked the **** out of them, they still unsettled me a bit. It's just always been a thing that aliens freak me out.
> 
> Fun anecdote time I meant to say in the video; when playing Bloodborne, the first time I met the little cabbage patch kid enemies, the aliens with the big squishy heads, it was at like 1 in the morning. I had been playing it all day, nice and exhausted. It was winter, so quiet and dark and a little cold. I am wandering down a dark foresty path and just... no music. Just the weird pitter-patter of these little guys, as I come across them playing around. They attack, a frozen sort of dread coming over me. Wordlessly, but very tensely, I beat them to death with my cane and walk back the way I came.
> 
> I message to my friend online "yeah I should probably get to bed" and immediately just went to bed. Out like a light.
> 
> Terrifying ****ing thing.


I think that's the intended reaction.

If I recall correctly, unless you go out of your way to gain a large amount of Insight early or find some way to sequence break, just running into those guys is the first sign that this isn't just a gothic horror or dark fantasy game.

...The ****ed up thing is that those aren't aliens. Those are humans mutated by the churches's experiments with insight and the essence of the various alien Gods you run into. Th extra messed up part is that those are the successful experiments and IIRC are like that willingly.



> Garrus from Mass Effect doesn't feel like an alien to me, he's a cute praying mantis boy.


He's supposed to be a bird.

Like, the design inspirations for the Turians were highly anthropomorphized birds of prey with metal plates instead of feathers.

So Garrus is Metal Birb Husbando Batman with guns. That's his thing.

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## LaZodiac

> I think that's the intended reaction.
> 
> If I recall correctly, unless you go out of your way to gain a large amount of Insight early or find some way to sequence break, just running into those guys is the first sign that this isn't just a gothic horror or dark fantasy game.
> 
> ...The ****ed up thing is that those aren't aliens. Those are humans mutated by the churches's experiments with insight and the essence of the various alien Gods you run into. Th extra messed up part is that those are the successful experiments and IIRC are like that willingly.
> He's supposed to be a bird.
> 
> Like, the design inspirations for the Turians were highly anthropomorphized birds of prey with metal plates instead of feathers.
> 
> So Garrus is Metal Birb Husbando Batman with guns. That's his thing.


Yeah the cabbage patch kids are freaky for a lot of reasons!

I know Turian's are birds but some of the chitin/scales feel bug to me. Still best husband choice though. Which reminds me I should stream Mass Effect at some point...

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## Rater202

> Yeah the cabbage patch kids are freaky for a lot of reasons!
> 
> I know Turian's are birds but some of the chitin/scales feel bug to me. Still best husband choice though. Which reminds me I should stream Mass Effect at some point...


You sure you wanna do that? Because that's one of those things where if at all possible you do the whole thing in one go because there's a lot of crap set up in the first game that doesn't fire until the third. Unless you handle a bunch of minor sidequests off-stream and budget your time very well that's a year-long commitment at least.

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## LaZodiac

> You sure you wanna do that? Because that's one of those things where if at all possible you do the whole thing in one go because there's a lot of crap set up in the first game that doesn't fire until the third. Unless you handle a bunch of minor sidequests off-stream and budget your time very well that's a year-long commitment at least.


I really like Mass Effect so it'd probably be fine.

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## Lord Raziere

> I really like Mass Effect so it'd probably be fine.


Yeah, considering the way it turned out, it does a lot things well. If nothing else, its a setting thats a good middle ground between Star Trek's optimism and Wh40k's grimdark, and its kind of criminal that we're not getting any continuation of it made by a competent developer. it has a certain reasonability to it where things aren't all bad and you can be a hero, but the plots are rooted in realistic, complex social realities of the setting. like the main plot was arguably the worst thing about Mass Effect, so if you just had an alternate universe where it didn't happen and focused on the things that made Mass Effect great: the interactions between various alien species and being a space-faring badass who has to navigate and solve the political problems around them, they would've had something that could last much longer and be much better. 

and something like Cerberus could still be around as a villain but done more competently so that its not just a bunch of mad science experiments, instead focusing on a political sabotage kind of thing to try and make humans look better or put them in a better position because something happened to some other species. 

like there is a lot you could do with Mass Effect and its sad that all the developers could think of was "robot cthulhu kill civilizations over and over for uuh.....reasons."

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## LaZodiac

> Yeah, considering the way it turned out, it does a lot things well. If nothing else, its a setting thats a good middle ground between Star Trek's optimism and Wh40k's grimdark, and its kind of criminal that we're not getting any continuation of it made by a competent developer. it has a certain reasonability to it where things aren't all bad and you can be a hero, but the plots are rooted in realistic, complex social realities of the setting. like the main plot was arguably the worst thing about Mass Effect, so if you just had an alternate universe where it didn't happen and focused on the things that made Mass Effect great: the interactions between various alien species and being a space-faring badass who has to navigate and solve the political problems around them, they would've had something that could last much longer and be much better. 
> 
> and something like Cerberus could still be around as a villain but done more competently so that its not just a bunch of mad science experiments, instead focusing on a political sabotage kind of thing to try and make humans look better or put them in a better position because something happened to some other species. 
> 
> like there is a lot you could do with Mass Effect and its sad that all the developers could think of was "robot cthulhu kill civilizations over and over for uuh.....reasons."


They had a more fascinating answer for why the Reaper's do what they do, but then it got leaked and EA forced Bioware's hand on changing it.

Also I LIKE the Reaper threat. It's fascinating! Reminds me of the Shadows from Babylon 5, or the Ur'quan from Star Control 2. But with a unique spin on'em.

----------


## Rater202

Unfortunately, the dark energy explanation isn't that much better in terms of how much sense it makes or how local their actions are, even if it's more fascinating in a "space magic" way.

The best way to think of the reapers is that they're dumb AI programed by another dumb AI. The first AI was given a problem to solve but due to limitations of its programming it ended up completly violating the spirit of it's orders and in a way "solved" the problem by doing what they were supposed to prevent.

And being a flawed AI, its creations are also flawed and just end up taking that chain of logic and following to its extreme conclusion.

The Clockwork Droids from Doctor Who are an apt comparison. They're programmed to maintain the ships and themselves, and to be _very_ good at using anything on hand, even things that really shouldn't work to do so... But due to an oversite they were never programmed not to murder people for raw materials and aren't smart enough to figure out "no, we shouldn't do that" on their own.

Like, the reason the Synthesis ending stops the Reapers is because it, like every other AI, imbues them with true sapience, free will, and an understanding of organic perspectives. So every Reaper in the Galaxy simultaneously has the realization of "Oh... I'm an *******."

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## Lord Raziere

> They had a more fascinating answer for why the Reaper's do what they do, but then it got leaked and EA forced Bioware's hand on changing it.
> 
> Also I LIKE the Reaper threat. It's fascinating! Reminds me of the Shadows from Babylon 5, or the Ur'quan from Star Control 2. But with a unique spin on'em.


Well I guess the Reapers could've been better executed. like in my opinion, they pushed the galactic extinction angle too soon. they should've given the normal setting more time to just be itself. to allow smaller plots to play out. like maybe, the Reapers could've been something more mysterious and taken longer to find out about? maybe make their mortal-farming something more gradual and played for horror, something that allows for more mystery and investigation. really play up all the creepy and screwed up stuff about them....and probably don't voice them in speech. voicing an entity inevitably humanizes them, which doesn't work for the kind of beyond human ken horrors these things are. 

it was something about biotics doing something to stars or whatever. I just wish Mass Effect had more stuff y'know? more good stories put out about it. but instead its trapped in EA hell.

----------


## LaZodiac

Our adventure continues to unfold... wait no that's like, five games laterr.

*Zodi Streams: Paper Mario [2] Sand, Sand Everywhere*
*
Video Length: 3:43:03*

In this episode, we suffer under the pain of potential game crashing chestnuts, the harsh climate of a blistering desert AND a mighty mountain, and end up fighting some dogs and their rude wizard owner. All in all a pretty good session of Paper Mario. Hope y'all enjoy!

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## Lord Raziere

*Paper Mario Stream 2:*
To comment on what I missed:

and yup, here is Jr. Troopa. he keeps showing up, and keeps being stronger, each time. this is what I mean he got Vegeta'd: he is a rival sure, and one to be aware of, but ultimately he will never win. he does however undergo the most tactical evolution out of all the enemies in this game.

Goombario when talking about Jr. Troopa: "this guy picks fights with people who are stronger than him, talk about dumb!"
Also Goombario when talking about The Master: "this guy trains with people who are stronger than him, what dedication!" (such training probably involves a lot of sparring and fighting to make sure they are actually using the lessons correctly)

I'm pretty sure you can fight the Master this early, you just won't *win* against him is the thing. and yeah, the dojo is basically just for bragging rights, there is no actual benefit to fighting in it, its just there to say you've taken on what is probably the hardest optional boss in this game. 

Lee, doing the worst move by imitating Goombario, how sad. and yeah, Lee is basically a late-game enemy in the guise of an early game boss. his damage is scary for how early your fighting him.

and yeah, HP 50, Attack power 6, this current fight with him is like......midgame boss level. I'd say he is tougher than the fourth and fifth chapter boss in this one. 

wow, so many of these toads are gossips. 

these two toad girls who like the quiet don't mention any husbands despite living together, or refer to each other as sisters. I'm going to headcanon them as being lesbian.

I mean, gossip makes sense when you consider that this mushroom kingdom seems to be pre-internet? maybe even pre-TV? the most advanced tech we see is the radio in koopa village. but then again the quiz show I think implies that TV's exist? hm. not all news gets to people through the papers. and I'd wager, that Toad Town despite it being the biggest town in the game, is probably not actually that big in terms of lore? it seems to be a smaller town that respects nature, and is at the most suburban, so it wouldn't surprise me if its actually a bit of a small town where everyone knows each other and word travels fast, in contrast to like Rogueport which despite having less areas than Toad town gamewise, I think lorewise is probably bigger, more urban and crowded given how its depicted, and has cellphone tech available by then. 

Club 64 is important for one sidequest and thats it. despite how cool of a place it is yeah its pretty unimportant, unfortunately. 

look, ya wanna imagine the ocean imagine a lake. then then imagine you can't see the shore in any direction. thats the ocean. 

Lil' Oinks are pretty much not worth wasting money on. like, I'm pretty sure only the determined and curious even bother with it.

now imagine a mod that makes it so you can't follow the straight line from Mt. Rugged to the outpost, and have to go through various areas with enemies to do it instead, while putting in additionla enemies like dry bones and yellow flame ghosts and blue bandits that you can't kill first turn because they're incorporeal at first and disappear instantly if they steal any money at all. thats the Dry Dry desert I've had to do.

I know this occurs after the fact, so I'm late on this but if I was there:
Zodi. Do. Not. DARE to hurt the Whacka. no hurt Whacka!

Good, Whacka not hurt. all is right with the world.

yeah Clefts are kind of the "not worth fighting" kind of enemy where they are too difficult to waste time on when you can just go past them. sure you can use bombette to kill them, but that costs FP.

parakarry has joined your party! Goombario is now officially useless.

actually something I do is lie to Buzzar, go down and hit the save block right after her then come back up to fight him- she will ask the question again every time you go past him. its a shorter runback than hitting the save block before her and if I can't beat him then I can always just go through Dry dry desert to level up and defeat her on the return trip.

I'm pretty sure that badge requires you to find a certain tornado to get there. don't remember which one though. Dry Dry Desert ain't exactly something I like to go back to because of how it works. there is stuff to find here, but its a lot of tedium and avoiding or fighting annoying enemies like pokeys and bandits. 

ugh, Goombario is the worst one to upgrade at this point, Kooper or Bombette are better for Dry dry Desert because of their AOE.

my theory is that Chuck Quizmo is the good counterpart to the Puzzleman in Underhero.

as for the red palm tree, I'm pretty sure its just three or five times then hit it with a hammer, or spin jump. can't do it until Merlon says to do it though.

----------


## Rater202

Boo Robin provides significantly less envy.

Random pop culture trivia that I got reminded of: _Chan the Man_ was the title of a song that sometimes played during the end credits of Jacki Chan Adventures. The Song was performed by the band Wheatus and literally all they did was change the lyrics to their song _Punk Ass Bitch._

Luigi, you're not getting an adventure till the next console. And even then that'll be a different you since it was eventually established a multiverse exists.

You think it's comfortable in Mario's Pocket? Because if Mario is sleeping for the night then they're just in there for like, a day at least... I have the mental mage of there just being a small village of former companions trapped in Mario's pocket... Or maybe becoming Mario's companion means that you permenantly become part of his Stand and he just forgets about some people between adventures.

I think the word you were looking for was "palooka."

"Oh, jeez, they were just _roommates._ Like, ohmah gawd."

...I feel dirty just typing that.

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## LaZodiac

> look, ya wanna imagine the ocean imagine a lake. then then imagine you can't see the shore in any direction. thats the ocean. 
> 
> Lil' Oinks are pretty much not worth wasting money on. like, I'm pretty sure only the determined and curious even bother with it.
> 
> now imagine a mod that makes it so you can't follow the straight line from Mt. Rugged to the outpost, and have to go through various areas with enemies to do it instead, while putting in additionla enemies like dry bones and yellow flame ghosts and blue bandits that you can't kill first turn because they're incorporeal at first and disappear instantly if they steal any money at all. thats the Dry Dry desert I've had to do.
> 
> I know this occurs after the fact, so I'm late on this but if I was there:
> Zodi. Do. Not. DARE to hurt the Whacka. no hurt Whacka!
> 
> ...


I live near a Great Lake! My perception on what is and isn't ocean is ****ed!

I am curious about adorable money sink pigs.

A lot of that sounds terrible!

I will not hurt the Whacka... as much as I want to.

Parakarry can't flip enemies.

True but given my play style it makes a degree of sense to keep the guy on pace. Also there's like, one more blue orb before we even leave Mt Ruggid everyone save one can get upgraded it is totally fine, haha.




> Boo Robin provides significantly less envy.
> 
> Random pop culture trivia that I got reminded of: _Chan the Man_ was the title of a song that sometimes played during the end credits of Jacki Chan Adventures. The Song was performed by the band Wheatus and literally all they did was change the lyrics to their song _Punk Ass Bitch._
> 
> Luigi, you're not getting an adventure till the next console. And even then that'll be a different you since it was eventually established a multiverse exists.
> 
> You think it's comfortable in Mario's Pocket? Because if Mario is sleeping for the night then they're just in there for like, a day at least... I have the mental mage of there just being a small village of former companions trapped in Mario's pocket... Or maybe becoming Mario's companion means that you permenantly become part of his Stand and he just forgets about some people between adventures.
> 
> I think the word you were looking for was "palooka."
> ...


I hope that's good! I figured this is a positive body envy in the "oh I wanna look like that" sense but she still wants to make sure everyone watching is comfortable if she can. Though that's not why she made the boo-Robin, she just always makes outfits for her streams so it made sense to do so here!

Fascinating.

The Paper Mario universe is contained within itself so it'll be this Luigi!

Mario's got comfy pockets, for sure.

Palooka! That's the word!

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## Rater202

> I hope that's good! I figured this is a positive body envy in the "oh I wanna look like that" sense


Yes.

the greyscale persona style model with the glowing green eyes is... Like I saw that and I think I understand what Gender Envy feels like now. But on a boo it's just a boo.

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## Lord Raziere

I mean.... dry dry Desert is already terrible Zodi. its enemies are: Clefts, pokeys, bandits, its a lot of areas that look almost the same, hiding things that are questionable if they are truly worth getting, then you have to into ruins with poison pokeys and chomps. my mod just makes it so that its an actual problem to get to the next town rather than "walk straight, spin dash on like one screen where a bandit is to avoid them".

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## LaZodiac

Papapaper!

*Zodi Streams: Paper Mario [3] Funny Ghost Time*

*Video Length: 3:45:25*

Within which we go have some fun with the Ojou-sama ghost girl, and beat up a massive ghost eating monstrosity. Also ruin Luigi's day but what else is new.

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## Rater202

Those Bob-Ombs might as well move in. Kooper doesn't need the house anymore now that he's been assimilated into Mario's Stand. Shortly after the events of this game, he'll be converted into raw power for Mario.

Mario is a monster. All of these people are agreeing to join him for the adventure not knowing that he's devouring them to further his own development. Of course, with some of them powering up Mario is the greatest thing they could do with their lives.

The forest has monsters in the grass? And here you are without Pokeballs...

...Still want that Pokemon game where some of the mons are just transparent references to other Nintendo titles.

Goombario, people will pay a *fortune* for a haunted house.

Goombario is somehow both elderly and a toddler.

I have a collection of CDs that consists mostly of multiple genres of Rock and Metal the soundtrack to _Wicked_, and the Album versions of all three Blue Collar Comedy Tours acts. I want an archaeologist to find my CD collection four hundred years from now and have no idea how the last two fit in with the others.

I could hear the music fine.

Learning the ukulele was mandatory in fifth grade. I can do three blind mice _very poorly_ and that's about it.

Tubba Blubba's gotta be horrifying. They just confirmed that the Boos are actually the spirits of the dead. If Tubba can consume them then he's basically destroying their souls.

And then Mario beat the crap out of Bow to free the star spirit and then left her and her subjects to deal with Tubba on their own.

Oh, the tragic irony, Bow joins with Mario to ensure the defeat of Tubba Blubba, saving any further of her subjects from being devoured, unknowing that the squat Italian plumber will devour *her*.

"How many lives have you consumed, Mario, to achieve such power?"
"Do you remember how-a-many loaves of bread you've eaten in-a your lifetime?"

Oh, how cute. She thinks she gets to leave when this is done.

Stand Joke aside, I just want a game where Mario turns out his pockets and then every paper Mario party member ever falls out.

"We've been trapped in there for years Mario. We've been living off of denim."

A baby bat is called a "pup."

Super hyped to kill or be killed.

Paper Mario the After Years is when an elderly Paper Mario loses control of his Stand as old age robs him of his will and the spirits he devoured return for revenge. You're playing as a Toad caretaker tending to an elderly Paper Mario who you think is going senile but really he's just haunted by his victims.

Bow does seem like the type to boast.

Wishlist: Remake/rerelease of Thousand-Year Door where the English localization doesn't censer the fact that Vivian is explicitly trans.

Herbert's name might be a _Re-Animato_r Reference.

Edit: the interesting thing about Sasori and Deidara is that their respective personalities are the opposite of their values in art.

Deidara is very chill and patient for the most part while Sasori, who is effectively immortal and believes that art should be permanent, hates waiting and has a temper to him.

----------


## LaZodiac

Robin wasn't feeling well, so I opted to leave Paper Mario till she's better, and pick up something I said I'd do a long time ago...

*Zodi Streams: Dishonored - The Knife of Dunwall [1] Rusty Knife*

*Video Length: 3:50:23*

It's finally time to do the DLC for Dishonored! Staring the Outsider empowered assassin Daud, taking place concurrently with the original game, lets see how the masterful killer plays compared to Corvo... a relevant thing to say, had I remembered at all how Corvo plays. Oops! It's been awhile since I played Dishonored, played a stealth game, and played a FPS stealth game, so... well, as the title implies.

Our knife is rusty. Time to wash it off with some blood.

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## LaZodiac

Standing heeere, I realiiiize...

*Zodi Plays: Paper Mario [4] Mario Gear Rising: Revengeance*

*Video Length: 3:06:58*

In this one, we do the Shy Guy Toybox.

We also at some point get caught up on... another thing. I hope you enjoy.

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## Rater202

I'm getting into this one late because I got caught up into some stuff...

...By the way, if anyone has any idea what a hypothetical Hermit Purple: Requiem or Hermit Purple Over Heaven would be capable of, I'd appreciate it. Jump Chains can get frickin weird.

Anyway, I feel I should note that the Kiss's name does not stand for anything. The fonding members have stated publically that they chose the name because Hard K and double S both make something sound dangerous and kiss was the only workd that had both.

(Likewise, AC/DC stands for Alternating Current/Direct Current. They took it off of an electric sewing machine.)

Zodi, Goombario was assimilated into Mario's stand. He has to answer to Mario.

While you are advised not to eat raw egg due to the risk of salmonella, most commercially sold eggs are pasteurized. The flour is more concerning.

...So as an aside, when I was diagnosed with the 'beatus, my mom bought some sugar-free cookies for me(we've been very lucky to find a lot of this stuff at a reasonable price) and we also got more from the same brand th next shopping trip. almond and fudge brownie chocolate chip, respectively(they're both delicious.) both both packages say "now made with eggs."

...the hell were they made with before?

"What's tomato?"

Mario proceeded to rob the storekeeper absolutely blind.

Sniper, no Sniping!

The Spy Guys follow the Peter Griffin school of camo: They're gonna be looking for people trying to blend in, so you've gotta stand out.

The Shy Guy's are a large family of Ninja's, Zodi. That's what he means by clan.
"Nothin', what's tomato with you?"

----------


## LaZodiac

Stream time.

*Zodi Streams: Dishonoured Knife of Dunwall/Brigmore Witches*

*Video Length: 2:50:57*

Stream! Hope you enjoyed. Had a later start and an early end because of personal bad vibes. Sorry for grumpus Zodi, next time will be better.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Ah don't worry Zodi, I wasn't feeling the best myself for personal reasons. we all have those days.

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## LaZodiac

Next week WAS better!

*Zodi Plays: Paper Mario [5] Lava or Leave It*

*Video Length: 4:02:53*

In this one, we tackle Lavalava Island! One of the more lengthy chapters, involving funny little horses, a fish mom, horrible feet bird, and my favorite boss in the game from a pure design stand point. Also a Zodi Break Down moment, powerful haikus, a very funny joke involving a wee tot, and more FF14 references than you can shake a stick at.

All in all, a good dang time.

----------


## Rater202

Raz? I think potentially getting eaten by a shark or an angry mutant sea bass is another reason why you can't swim the ocean.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Raz? I think potentially getting eaten by a shark or an angry mutant sea bass is another reason why you can't swim the ocean.


Okay 1: shark attacks aren't common, in a few centuries only hundreds of people have died to those, thats miniscule. your more likely to die to jellyfish, elephants, horses, dogs and the staircase. and most shark species aren't even harmful to humans and only two are known to be consistently dangerous. so if you should worry about anything, worry about making sure you walk down the stairs carefully. 

2: while some sea bass can get quite large, I'm pretty sure that attacks by them aren't even a thing.

So, no, the biggest concern of swimming across the ocean is dying of thirst/starvation, the concern after that is a storm coming along and making the waters choppy and dangerous to potentially drown you. aquatic animals killing you is so distant a third that its barely a concern at all.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Okay 1: shark attacks aren't common, in a few centuries only hundreds of people have died to those, thats miniscule. your more likely to die to jellyfish, elephants, horses, dogs and the staircase. and most shark species aren't even harmful to humans and only two are known to be consistently dangerous. so if you should worry about anything, worry about making sure you walk down the stairs carefully. 
> 
> 2: while some sea bass can get quite large, I'm pretty sure that attacks by them aren't even a thing.
> 
> So, no, the biggest concern of swimming across the ocean is dying of thirst/starvation, the concern after that is a storm coming along and making the waters choppy and dangerous to potentially drown you. aquatic animals killing you is so distant a third that its barely a concern at all.


I'd say a distant fourth. Navigating would be the real killer after all the logistics of "you do not have the strength to swim the ocean" and "you need to eat and sleep".

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I'd say a distant fourth. Navigating would be the real killer after all the logistics of "you do not have the strength to swim the ocean" and "you need to eat and sleep".


Pretty much. Ocean: its a liquid desert, larger than every continent on Earth.

----------


## Rater202

So I was making a joke there.

Also, Sushie is canonically a grandmother.

----------


## LaZodiac

Here's to you, Daud.

*Zodi Plays: Dishonoured The Witches of Brigmore [4] Hey There Delilah*
*
Video Length: 2:26:50*

We finish up the Dishonoured DLC, and set the ground work for what it to come!

To summerize: next week I'll be streaming with Blue, playing through the Somnium Files: NirvanA Initiative, the sequel to AI: The Somnium Files. After that we'll be doing the Furi DLC character, and so on and so forth depending on availability of people. Streaming!

----------


## LaZodiac

Surprise bonus stream!

*Zodi Streams: Amelia Watson Case File 420 -The Trashed Phoenix-*

*Video Length: 1:59:28*

Blue needed to practice streaming and talking about video games in prep for Saturday, and I had a day off yesterday so had the time and energy, so! Stream time! In order to further prep for Saturday, where we're going to be doing a visual novel adventure game murder mystery, Blue provided a game with a similar set up; a Hololive fangame visual novel murder mystery.

I hope you enjoy and or am sorry.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*On Amelia Watson Case File 420 the Trashed Phoenix:*
what is this nonsense, why is fast-paced kirby-like music playing over a mystery game, AND WHY DID IT JUST SAY A MEME RANDOMLY!? 

oh this is a bunch of Vtubers making a visual novel, this makes a whole lot more sense now. you threw Blue into the deep end, you monster.

Attack on titan or Ascendence of a Bookworm. I'd choose the isekai, it may not be the best but at least its not grimdark nonsense. and yeah isekai really needs to up its thrills and twists game.

planeswalkers aren't time travelers, they're dimension travelers. 

no they store the food on the roof Zodi so that dogs and rats can't get them, everyone knows the birds will keep the food safe!

just you watch, your going to be completely wrong and the drugs and prescription turn out to have nothing to do with this.

yeah needing to consider what your hearing is apart of digesting so many viewpoints. 

I know bleach as well. it lives up to its name!

well thats what you get for eating twizzlers, those things are bad.

Zodi thats not special, everyone outside versus battle fans think power levels are bull, it'd be more notable if you took them seriously. 

is the running joke your dislike of dark levels? ice levels? 

"Phoenix Wright has done worse"- No he hasn't! don't lie Zodi.  :Small Annoyed: 

and yeah even in Phoenix Wright thats NOT how justice works!

your opinions of Phoenix wright aside, it was fun as usual.

----------


## LaZodiac

> oh this is a bunch of Vtubers making a visual novel, this makes a whole lot more sense now. you threw Blue into the deep end, you monster.
> 
> Attack on titan or Ascendence of a Bookworm. I'd choose the isekai, it may not be the best but at least its not grimdark nonsense. and yeah isekai really needs to up its thrills and twists game.
> 
> yeah needing to consider what your hearing is apart of digesting so many viewpoints. 
> 
> I know bleach as well. it lives up to its name!
> 
> well thats what you get for eating twizzlers, those things are bad.
> ...


Fan game, not the girls themselves. And for your info Blue is the one who suggested it!

Bookworm is just a better story too.

Understanding words is important!

Ironic you say that given Bleach's title genuinely has almost nothing to do with the series as proper. Though some of the ending does require a lot of brain-bleach.

Licorice is delicious I'll smite you.

No that's just normal. I'm sure someone can fill in the one running joke I have.

I love Phoenix Wright I just wanted to make her feel better.

----------


## Rater202

Is the running joke the thing about not eating mortal people?

----------


## LaZodiac

> Is the running joke the thing about not eating mortal people?


Ding ding ding that's the one.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Ironic you say that given Bleach's title genuinely has almost nothing to do with the series as proper. Though some of the ending does require a lot of brain-bleach.


Well it lives up to its name because Bleach is boring, so its like looking at a blank screen. there is so little color or interesting things happening that it might as well be bleached!

----------


## LaZodiac

Stream time!

*Zodi Streams: The Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [1] Into the Deep End*

*Video Length: 3:11:34*

We begin the stream of The Somnium Files: NirvanA Initiative!

It is uh... intense to put it mildly. Hope y'all enjoy!

----------


## LaZodiac

Back to Paper Mario!
*
Zodi Streams: Paper Mario [6] Ultra Rank Robin*
*
Video Length: 3:13:16*

We go through the Flower Fields chapter of Paper Mario, wherein we get a silly turtle cloud man and Robin achieves ultimate power. I have the best friends.

------

So, about Majora's Mask. As you may have noticed in today's stream and in general, I've gotten the plague! I'm gonna try and get some Majora recorded soon though.

----------


## Rater202

Zodi, you fool. You've planted four invasive species into Toad Town and facilitated Flow Field's conquest of the Mushroom Kingdom!

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Zodi, you fool. You've planted four invasive species into Toad Town and facilitated Flow Field's conquest of the Mushroom Kingdom!


Ha! as if those jerks could ever coordinate a single battle much less a war. the moment Petunia learns of it, she'll probably be mad that Mario planted seeds to be able to come save them all, thinking its going too far. Lily is in her pond waiting for the day her prince charming to show up. Posie just wants to live with her crystal tree. the lying flower has no ambition to be able to screw people over on a large scale. Rosie is so narcissistic she literally doesn't care about anything that isn't within 15 feet of her. 

I can buy Wisterwood being the mastermind though.  :Small Tongue:  old tree, has lived for so long in one place, he's probably gone insane. the whole thing with Ruff N Puff? all apart of his long term master plan to defeat his oldest enemy for flower fields using Mario as his pawn, he probably sent those four bub-ulbs out to spread the seeds, predicting all this would happen. now his bub-ulbs just has to plant more seeds near shooting star summit that will grow up into the night sky to Star Haven and he can finally send an agent to steal the Star Rod within the next few centuries and ultimate power will be his.

ok but seriously how do these flowers all know each other? none of them move, do they just....hear about other flowers from bub-ulbs then get the mail paratroopas to deliver passive-aggressive comments to each other?

----------


## LaZodiac

Okay! Stream proper now!

*Zodi Streams: The Somnium Files NirvanA Initiave [2] Iris Was Right Maybe?!*

*Video Length: 3:40:30*

Back to proper streaming after last week's just having a bad time. No Blue as he is sick, but damn if a lot of stuff didn't happen in succession!

----------


## LaZodiac

Just a quick Zodi update.

I had a bit of a mental breakdown! Don't know when I'll be able to resume work on Majora's Mask proper. I haven't uploaded more of the streams here because I didn't want to do that till I got more Majora out.

Thank you for your patience.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, I noticed this wasn't updating but I didn't want to say anything in case I'd be assuming wrongly, thanks for the update.

----------


## Rater202

*hugs for the Zodi*

----------


## DataNinja

> Just a quick Zodi update.
> 
> I had a bit of a mental breakdown! Don't know when I'll be able to resume work on Majora's Mask proper. I haven't uploaded more of the streams here because I didn't want to do that till I got more Majora out.
> 
> Thank you for your patience.


Entirely understandable. Please don't feel guilty or anything. Life's tough all around right now, so I certainly don't blame you at all. We're here for you.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Spoiler: Somnium AI stream commentary:*
Show


don't worry Zodi, I'm pretty sure I would've just looked up the answers for the music questions myself. also I'm pretty sure that this lack of emotion is more of a Tearer influence thing than a normal functioning of Amame's mind.

Yeah, Date your going to have clarify that you mean in a martial training kind of relationship with Ryuki....but then again people often read homoerotic stuff into that anyways. 

.....0_0 how is Tokiko alive? The voice is wrong. slightly so, but wrong. 

Tokiko is so a Mage the Awakening character. I swear she belongs in some Mysterium, Silver Ladder or Free Council faction where all her nonsense would actually make sense.

Or its just Date's car and Date is not using it for some reason.

Iris......your mind is probably the needed levity after Amame's screwed up horror quiz game.

maybe, but wouldn't it be funny if IRIS didn't remember his name and think its Kaniza, so we have to intentionally get it wrong?

Tama, after all the sex jokes, you can't even bring yourself to roll with a Submissive/Dominant bit? I'm disappointed. 

we got a yakuza, thats a Dark Type, it'll be useful in this Psychic type environment....

*sees yakuza thug shoot and stab a ninja*
Iris: Yay, violence!

excuse me, that wasn't nearly as over the top to be a Sephiroth parody. it should've at least thrown a galaxy and spent five minutes on the process of that galaxy being thrown at Mizuki.

I think Ota was referencing Cowboy Bebop with the line "lesson lesson always follow strangers". specifically Ed during an episode where each member of the Bebop crew gave out a lesson, and a short story but each one was either screwed up, inapplicable or irrelevant to daily life, as they're all mercenaries, bounty hunters, hackers or criminals and thus wouldn't learn any lessons that are actually useful to the viewer. aside from maybe Spike's comedic one about not leaving things in the fridge for too long.

I don't think its a keyblade, I think its just a giant key. as for why and how, just because he is a lockpicker and former criminal doesn't mean he can't also be this flamboyant kind of criminal who spends their ill-gotten money on making a giant key to club people with because he wants to keep a theme and get his criminal contacts to forge it. after all, he had to have wasted all his lockpicker money on SOMETHING right?

and this is where I came in. now everything makes a bit more sense. 

Amames mindscape didn't reveal, but Iris's mindscape DID reveal Tearer's appearance. Iris clearly did see him. So focusing on Amame ignores the fact that we know his appearance from Iris. Now the problem comes if Date's call about Sejima or whatever comes before Ryuki psynced with Iris.

----------


## LaZodiac

Zodi is feeling better but still kinda tired so, sorry. But I'll at least throw up the links to the Somnium File streams!
*
Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [3] Definitely Not A Cult*
*Video Length: 3:30:00*

*Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [4.1] The Riichi and Powerful*
*Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [4.2] Lien is the Worst*
*Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [4.3] Horrible Cube Skull*
*Video(s) Length: 3:55:28*

*Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [5] God of Fortune Pachaka MAX*
*Video Length: 3:43:45*

*Zodi Streams: Somnium Files NirvanA Initiative [6] F's in Chat*
*Video Length: 3:29:20*




> *Spoiler: Somnium AI stream commentary:*
> Show
> 
> 
> don't worry Zodi, I'm pretty sure I would've just looked up the answers for the music questions myself. also I'm pretty sure that this lack of emotion is more of a Tearer influence thing than a normal functioning of Amame's mind.
> 
> Yeah, Date your going to have clarify that you mean in a martial training kind of relationship with Ryuki....but then again people often read homoerotic stuff into that anyways. 
> 
> .....0_0 how is Tokiko alive? The voice is wrong. slightly so, but wrong. 
> ...


*Spoiler*
Show

Given how this part ends, and how the series is, I imagine it IS a martial arts training relationship... but Ryuki WANTS it to be physical the other way.

They mentioned in an early part that this limo is the last thing remaining from Ryuki's parents.

I mentioned this in stream but; while Iris did see the man in the iron mask, RYUKI first saw him during the VR segment post Komeji's death. He's the one who decides that person is Tearer- we even got the character log FOR Tearer BEFORE this happened and I commented on that, so that when we do see him in that VR Segment, we are instinctively primed to go "oh Ryuki's right this must be Tearer!" without any moment of realizing "wait how does he know this??"

----------


## Rater202

Just want to pop in and apologize for not having commentary on this playthrough. I uh... This kind of game isn't my thing.

Also... A thought occurred to me when I was thinking over the Paper Mario playthrough... Why did Bowser wish for some elaborate plan to defeat Mario instead of just wishing for Mario's defeat?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Just want to pop in and apologize for not having commentary on this playthrough. I uh... This kind of game isn't my thing.
> 
> Also... A thought occurred to me when I was thinking over the Paper Mario playthrough... Why did Bowser wish for some elaborate plan to defeat Mario instead of just wishing for Mario's defeat?


Because......

1. Technically its canon/word of god that all of Mario's stories are plays acted out by him and his friends, meaning Bowser isn't "really" his enemy or kidnapping peach. he just for some reason, takes the main villain role a lot.

2. even if you don't believe that, its canon that Bowser is a bit of a bonehead- stated by Peach herself and even exploited during Shy guy's Toybox with Peach being able to fool him into thinking that Mario is afraid of MUSHROOMS of all things. y'know, the iconic food that Mario always eats to get stronger or bigger? Bowser just being dumb is pretty much the stated reason why.

3. technically he _didn't_ wish for an elaborate plan. he literally just wished for a castle to be under peaches, rose it up into the sky then made himself invincible when Mario showed up, then beat him into confetti before chapter 1 even began. as far as villain plans go, thats very simple and incredibly effective. the only thing he didn't know was the Star Spirits being able to give Mario their energy from long distances to help him heal- and who in the world would know they would be able to do that? 

where his plan does get elaborate is how he kept away all the star spirits, entrusting them to various minions across the mushroom kingdom, and while keeping them all in different places so that Mario can't get them all immediately thus taking longer to retaliate is a good move....just putting them out of Mario's reach would be a better one. Assuming that the paper mario setting is its own self-contained universe/continuity, Bowser could've simply wished the star spirits to be imprisoned in the core of Mars, and Mario wouldn't be able to do a thing about it even if he survived. He could still go around beating up Bowser's minions sure but at the end of the day Bowser would be in his castle and invincible and Mario would lack any means to get there and and even if he did he wouldn't be able to beat Bowser, instead of being held by vulnerable minions that Mario can defeat.

basically he beat up Mario, won, and was almost correct in the assumption that Mario would never bother him again, so there would be no one that could possibly free the star spirits thus his minions would be enough to beat anyone who isn't mario. Bowser's real stupid move was after Kammy Koopa found he was alive in Goomba Village and flew back to him to report this, was not simply making another wish on the Star Rod to make sure Mario was dealt with permanently in some manner....or Bowser never realized that the wish granting power had a potential longer range of effect than "within eyeshot/the immediate area" which would be in character for him to not realize since all the wishes he makes with it are stuff that he is nearby for and again, he is a bonehead. the true power of wishes/reality warping is lateral thinking and figuring out how to bypass or get around as many things as possible, and Bowser is someone who forces himself through things with strength and pure power- how one uses wishes is reflective of the person who wishes upon things and what does Bowser use the power of wishes itself for?
-imprison the star spirits
-become invincible (notably this seems to be temporary and needs to be refreshed when Mario fights him the second time, Bowser might not realize that he could simply make it permanent and is probably imitating the star power up mario usually uses to be invincible through things in mainline games and thus it runs out after a while....or Bowser realized that the invincibility has some unseen downside in some other area of his life or he simply didn't want to be constantly glowing with rainbow star energy all the time)
-make tubba blubba invincible in a way he can disable so that Tubba blubba can't challenge him
-raises up a big flying castle under Peach's castle
-blast waves of golden rings that hurt people around him

these are mostly pretty simple and ham-handed uses of wishes, very self-centered and focused on him being the most powerful one around with immediate effects, with tubba blubba being the only time he shows any forethought and planning, and that is to basically make TB's invincibility less good so that he himself can keep Tubba blubba under his control which says a lot about his priorities and how much he trusts tubba blubba, but that might've been done at Kammy's suggestion since she is the contingency planner/adviser to Bowser, its more likely that the specific Tubba blubba set up was her idea in my mind, since I don't see Bowser coming up with that idea himself given everything else he has done with the Star Rod.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Just want to pop in and apologize for not having commentary on this playthrough. I uh... This kind of game isn't my thing.
> 
> Also... A thought occurred to me when I was thinking over the Paper Mario playthrough... Why did Bowser wish for some elaborate plan to defeat Mario instead of just wishing for Mario's defeat?


That's entirely fair Rater. You don't have to like everything I do! I promise I'll get back to Majora's soon, I've just not yet had the energy to do that. I've been trying, and we'll get there. Sorry.

Raziere already answered basically all of this, but yeah the answer I'm going with is that "good ol Browser's a bit of a doof, thinks this is a great plan" vibe.

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (10)*
Show




> How's about a new Zeldo today?
> 
> *Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [10] Lens Me A Hand*
> 
> *Video Length: 35:13*
> 
> In this episode, we finally set off to prepare the second main area of the game! Snowhead, a mountainous region of ice and snow, inhabited by everyone's favorite rock themed oni giants, the Goron! Unfortunately this place is frozen over and getting worse... lets hope we can save it before everyone turns into a popsicle! And also dies! With the help of our every watchful owl friend we get a new tool that'll help us with hidden things, and with THAT we find a rather... unfortunate spirit.
> 
> One climb up a sheer cliff later, and we've got our second major mask; the Goron Mask! With this, we'll be able to turn into a lovable Goron warrior of unparalleled power! But we'll see just how strong he is next time; until then, take care!





You HAVE to put a pun in the title.  Wombat will give you a style point for it!  (+1 style point)

First sighting of a Dodongo in majora's mask (and strangely only really in the area of that field and that's it...)!  These guys have killed me more than any other enemy due to my impatience, especially the later Huge ones.  

One thing that's great about voice over Zodi is that we get impressions of Gorons.  I love it.  

I believe the axe in the weapons shop is a Dark Knut axe.  Also, in honor of the area being frozen, I shall not count those blue rupees as missed because they are currently unobtainable.

RIP Zodi from feathers fading.  I honestly thought it was so mean that the platforms were invisible AND icy.

Darmani the dead goron's scar across his torso is definitely a gruesome choice.  The invisible ladder puzzle I used to have memorized and didn't need the lens of truth at all.  I wonder if I played it again if muscle memory would set in...

Goron mask is probably my favorite form.  GOD I LOVE ROLLING.  



*EPISODE 10 KILL TALLY!*

Red Chuchu - 1
Dodongo - 1
Blue Tektite - 8
White Wolfos - 3
Snapper - 1
Invisible Big Skulltula - 1

Style Points - 1
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 0
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 10_)
*Spoiler*
Show


Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 51
Dinolfos - 1
Dodongos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Leever - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 6
Tektites, Blue - 8

*Avians*
Guay - 24
Takkuri - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 6_
Baba, Deku - 14

*Keese*
Bad Bat - 7
Keese - 2

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8
Skulltula, Big Invisible - 1

*Octoroks*
Octoroks, Red - 100
Octos, Big - 1

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 5_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Stal*
Bubble - 5
Bubble, Blue - 2

*Wolfos*
Wolfos - 13
Wolfos, White - 3

*Time Reset Count* - 3

*Total Things Dead* - 305

*1st Place* - Red Octorok, at 100!
*2nd Place* - Mad Deku Scrubs, at 51!
*3rd Place*  - Guay, at 24!

*Total Style Points* - 9

*Total Missed Rupees* - 101
*Total Lost Rupees* - 138

----------


## TheWombatOfDoom

*Spoiler: Zodi's Forms (11)*
Show




> *rolls around in a ball*
> 
> *Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [11] Slow Your Roll*
> 
> *Video Length: 27:11*
> 
> In this episode, we make use of the fact that we have another dead soul turned into a magical disguise. Tricking people into thinking their loved one and hero is alive and helping soothe a child's sadness at the inevitability of his dad dying.
> 
> You know, for kids!
> ...





Huzzah new couch!  Gotta love ice traction and inclines to get you rolling fast!  

Partial song get!  Stomping with goron form to open the way to the village was always a thing, even in the original.  You can also have the goron guard do it even as a goron, but thats such a waste of your stomping power!  Whole song get!

Why do gorons always need torches lit?  Its like always torches with these guys!

Ooo fancy chandelier.  Would be unfortunate if someone were to break it...oH gods WHY!   :Small Big Grin:  This is the pumpkin soup restaurant all over again.  People count on pots to be broken by link, but I think we have a new standard...

The rock is imported from Dodongo's cavern.  But there's also Dodongos here, so it might just be another cavern that they occupy?

Okay that unfurl from roll into the hole was fantastic.  +1 style point.

Oh interesting, going swordless/potentially breaking your sword during next dungeon.  Let's see what happens!  YOU ARE SO LUCKY you are in 3DS.  In normal Majora's Mask, owls are only activatable by your sword, meaning you wouldn't have been able to save at Snowhead.

This poor biggoron is living his best life and you lull him asleep to his doom.   :Small Frown:   okay, the climb up the whole path while rolling deserves a style point.  +1 style point



*EPISODE 11 KILL TALLY!*

White Wolfos - 1
Deku Baba - 2
Blue Tektite - 5
White Boe - 4
Ice Keese - 1

Style Points - 2
Time Reset Count - 0

Missed Rupees - 0
Lost Rupees - 0



*Majora's Mask*
*Total Kills*
(_As of Episode 11_)
*Spoiler*
Show


Bee, Giant - 1
Beehive - 4
Boe, Black - 21
Deku Scrubs, Mad - 51
Dinolfos - 1
Dodongos - 1
Eeno - 1
Gekko - 1
Leever - 1
Odolwa - 1
Snapper - 6
Tektites, Blue - 13

*Avians*
Guay - 24
Takkuri - 1

*Babas*
_Baba, Mini - 6_
Baba, Deku - 16

*Ghosts*
Boe, White - 4

*Keese*
Bad Bat - 7
Keese - 2
Keese, Ice - 1

*Molds*
Dragonfly - 7
Hiploop - 2
Insect Minion - 5
Skulltula, Big - 8
Skulltula, Big Invisible - 1

*Octoroks*
Octoroks, Red - 100
Octos, Big - 1

*Slimes*
_Chuchu, Red - 5_
Chuchu, Green - 2

*Stal*
Bubble - 5
Bubble, Blue - 2

*Wolfos*
Wolfos - 13
Wolfos, White - 4

*Time Reset Count* - 3

*Total Things Dead* - 318

*1st Place* - Red Octorok, at 100!
*2nd Place* - Mad Deku Scrubs, at 51!
*3rd Place*  - Guay, at 24!

*Total Style Points* - 11

*Total Missed Rupees* - 101
*Total Lost Rupees* - 138

----------


## LaZodiac

> You HAVE to put a pun in the title.  Wombat will give you a style point for it!  (+1 style point)
> 
> First sighting of a Dodongo in majora's mask (and strangely only really in the area of that field and that's it...)!  These guys have killed me more than any other enemy due to my impatience, especially the later Huge ones.  
> 
> One thing that's great about voice over Zodi is that we get impressions of Gorons.  I love it.  
> 
> I believe the axe in the weapons shop is a Dark Knut axe.  Also, in honor of the area being frozen, I shall not count those blue rupees as missed because they are currently unobtainable.
> 
> RIP Zodi from feathers fading.  I honestly thought it was so mean that the platforms were invisible AND icy.
> ...


Puns are Necessary!

It's always fun to futz about with silly voices, hehe.

Goron isn't my favorite, but it's close. Very enjoyable round lad!




> Huzzah new couch!  Gotta love ice traction and inclines to get you rolling fast!  
> 
> Partial song get!  Stomping with goron form to open the way to the village was always a thing, even in the original.  You can also have the goron guard do it even as a goron, but thats such a waste of your stomping power!  Whole song get!
> 
> Why do gorons always need torches lit?  Its like always torches with these guys!
> 
> Ooo fancy chandelier.  Would be unfortunate if someone were to break it...oH gods WHY!   This is the pumpkin soup restaurant all over again.  People count on pots to be broken by link, but I think we have a new standard...
> 
> The rock is imported from Dodongo's cavern.  But there's also Dodongos here, so it might just be another cavern that they occupy?
> ...


The new couch is still pretty good but the sides are too high for much lounging, sad to say v_V

Gorons love small amounts of warmth in torch form!

Yeah I imagine whatever the Termina version of Dodongo Cavern is is a lot easier to deal with.

I'm not gonna lie when I do stuff like that in video games- even ones that aren't Zelda- I get the thought "I bet Wombat would think this was pretty slick". This and the rupee counter proves Pavlov's theory.

God right I forgot owl doesn't work with the sword in the N64 version sweet jesus.

----------


## LaZodiac

Somnium Files: NirvanA Initiative are done. We made our way through Furi using the DLC character Onnamusha.

Now: *help me choose what's next!*

Also, saying it here and locking it in. Friday is a holiday so I'll be recording more Majora's Mask!

----------


## Rater202

> Somnium Files: NirvanA Initiative are done. We made our way through Furi using the DLC character Onnamusha.
> 
> Now: *help me choose what's next!*
> 
> Also, saying it here and locking it in. Friday is a holiday so I'll be recording more Majora's Mask!


I have cast my vote. Also, hoorey.

Also also, I actually know what two of those are.

----------


## Rater202

Alright! Let's Pick some Mins!

...Immediately I hear the audio and flashback to so, so very many innocent creatures that trusted me dying horribly for my careless mistakes. Never did actually beat this game.

Anyway yeah, you go turn this bottom-of-the-food chain prey species into an apex predator, thus irreparably ****ing up the local ecosystem, zodi.

----------


## LaZodiac

Right yes, I should post this.

*Zodi Streams: Pikmin [1] Silly Carrot Adventure*

*Video Length: 3:08:36*

The first ten days of our adventure, where absolutely no one gets brutally turbo killed due to Zodi's negligence!

As per the end of stream, next Saturday may not be a stream since I'll be at the airport waiting for Qwerty to arrive! We may stream on another day though, will keep y'all posted! And, yes, Monday is Majora's Mask!

----------


## Rater202

I'm an hour in and you've already done better than I ever have.

So I knew that there were bosses in this game and they dropped stuff, but I never knew that some of the ship parts were just locked into what appeared to be random spawns on the map.

Also, I _thought_ it was weird that you didn't go back for the satellite.

----------


## LaZodiac

Heaven or hell, duel one, lets rock!

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [16] Romani Cancel*

*Video Length: 28:09*

In this episode, we return to Majora's Mask! While I did make sure to check the last video to remind myself of what we were doing, I failed to actually... successfully remind myself, so things get a little off kilter. Thank you for your patience in this time as we readjust to what we be doin'.

On that note the bulk of the episode is going to the fourth region of the game, exploring the Ikana Graveyard and what we can find there. Mostly skeletons, and their boss the big skeleton who makes all the rules. We promptly insert ourselves into his position, and we are reminded that even with goofy bone boys like the Stalchildren and Skull Keeta, this is a game about lose, as he asks us dismiss his men- the war is over, and we can rest.

God this game is good.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 16: Loop 5, Day 2*
your long ago challenge with Wombat or whoever has really made you a rupee-counter, Zodi

the strongest enemy you've faced so far: Skull Keeta

you got the Skull Captain's Hat! now your an Aragorn!

Link: well, here I go graverobbing again.

Iron Knuckle no sword run challenge lets gooooooo. one try, easy every time.

post-knuckle return trip more challenging than the fight itself.

ah yes, Ikana, probably the clearest example of what happens when you use the Majora's Mask.

....they definitely remade the Gilded Sword for this release, that is not how I remember it. I remember it being more orange-like and darker for some reason.....checked google, I think I was thinking of the old icon art of the gilded sword, because I can't find any images of what the gilded sword was like how I remember it so it seems my memory screwed that up.

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Majora's Mask 16: Loop 5, Day 2*
> your long ago challenge with Wombat or whoever has really made you a rupee-counter, Zodi
> 
> the strongest enemy you've faced so far: Skull Keeta
> 
> you got the Skull Captain's Hat! now your an Aragorn!
> 
> Link: well, here I go graverobbing again.
> 
> ...


Wombat, yeah. It is incredible how much that little thing has influenced me. I want to get a good grade at playing video games, which is a normal thing to want and possible to achieve.

Few beings compare to Skull Keeta. He is strongest.

Whenever you are recruited into the skeleton war you report to me for your duties. True fact.

I have NO idea how I got owned so hard on the return trip...

Might be an emulator thing if you played it that way. Or just mixing up the art, yeah.

----------


## Rater202

So... Boss Bones tells link to tell the smol bones that the war is over.

You get exactly no options to do so. You get "carry on" and "vandalize this grave so I can rob it."

----------


## LaZodiac

> So... Boss Bones tells link to tell the smol bones that the war is over.
> 
> You get exactly no options to do so. You get "carry on" and "vandalize this grave so I can rob it."


Which is weird because I'm PRETTY sure you used to be able to...

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## Rater202

> Which is weird because I'm PRETTY sure you used to be able to...


Maybe you have to fully clear the grave dungeons?

----------


## DataNinja

Well, I'm glad at least we finally got the sword quest done.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## ShneekeyTheLost

It is fortunate that there are so many things to do in Majora's Mask that even if you mess up doing one thing, you can often still salvage the iteration by doing something completely different. 

Ahh, right. The frogs. You've actually run into a couple of them already. And yea, that's a whole THING because you have to do it all in one cycle.

----------


## LaZodiac

*really delicious guitar twang noise* Zelda.

*Zodi Plays: Majora's Mask [17] Fish-bone Guitar*

*Video Length: 33:37*

In this episode, after some flailing around as I try to find out what we should do next... we eventually settle on the realization that we should at least begin the third segment of the game; The Great Bay of Termina. This place doesn't seem, at least at first, to be as bad off as the other ones. None of the NPCs we meet straight away are in immediate danger- except for the dying man but that's like, neither here nor there. We've got the fisherman and his legendary seahorse, which he'll trade to us for... photos of a Gerudo lady, which in Termina are a bunch of water based pirate folk (Ganondorf in Wind Waker is thinking about this and cringing). We've got a creepy old scientist who wants zora eggs (because he's serving as a midwife for the poor Mikau and his lady-zora friend) and his silly little fish that was a little peckish. It's not as immediately bleak as the inevitable ice-death of the Gorons, and not as brutal as the Deku tribe's poisoned swamp and poisoned hearts.

But there is a languid feeling to it all. The ocean is getting warmer, the fish are dying, it is murky and cannot be navigated except by the brightest lights. There's a giant mealstrom of wind out in the distance, a looming threat that no one can really do anything about if it DOES decide to cause problems. Woodfall was consumed by anger, Snowhead was crushed by an oppressive weight, but Great Bay just feels very... accepting of their doom, in a way that hits different from the Gorons. At least, from this initial hit of it, maybe Zora Hall will be different, we'll see!

Until next time!

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## Rater202

I still don't get how the gilded sword is supposed to work. Gold is a very soft metal and looking at the design it looks like they just completely replaced the blade.

...So is the fisherman supposed to be a Goron or just an ugly human?

that picture of the Gerudo Pirate could have been a lot worse and you know it, Zodi.

_Spider-house, spider-house, what the he~ll is a spider-house..._

I did not expect you to be able to cut the signs.

...Are those equipped weapons or are his fins boomerangs?

----------


## LaZodiac

> I still don't get how the gilded sword is supposed to work. Gold is a very soft metal and looking at the design it looks like they just completely replaced the blade.
> 
> ...So is the fisherman supposed to be a Goron or just an ugly human?
> 
> that picture of the Gerudo Pirate could have been a lot worse and you know it, Zodi.
> 
> _Spider-house, spider-house, what the he~ll is a spider-house..._
> 
> I did not expect you to be able to cut the signs.
> ...


Gold is a soft material for your sole creation, but as the name implies it is just gilded. there's an entire regular sword under the gold bits, the gold just reinforces it with the gilding.

Just an ugly dude.

We'll get into what spider-houses are later, hehehe.

Mikau is a Zora warrior, and as such he can fling his forearm fins off as razorsharp boomeranges. Zora are awesome.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Majora's Mask 17: Loop 5, Day 3*
Zodi forgetting her own precautions and state of the lottery, sad to see. 

yeah, this bay is in a more subtle state of disarray, not all disasters are ones you can see.

Mikau: I'm dying, hear my final message
Also Mikau: let me play an entire song with a fishbone guitar about it.

meh, his final performance wasn't as great as when he played _Through The Bubbles and the Foam_, 4/10.

his tombstone performances aren't any better, I'd give Song of the Zora and Battle song of the Zora both 2's. not going to be topping the charts in the afterlife with this trend Mikau, he really fell off in quality. 

yeah, no one likes a nerf, especially when its completely needless like in a single player game.

........I think they might've remastered the guitar sounds to be better here? Maybe. I remember it sounding slightly different. 

and the yeah the pirates are sea gerudo. interesting how the Terminan version of them put them in very different context yet they are so recognizably similar despite that.

----------


## LaZodiac

Bringing this up here as well...

Starting November, my hours at work are getting cut in half, so I'm not going to be making much money. My rent will not be decreasing for awhile as well, so now would be a great time to support me if that's something you're interested in.

Additionally, due to other unrelated factors, stream days are probably going to move to Sunday, same time as usual. I hope that's agreeable for everyone?

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## Rater202

And thus, Zodi proves herself better at Pikmin than I ever was and ever will be.

Something I want to know: Where do they come from? Like, there are clear signs of an advanced, human-scale society, probably actual humans given some stuff you find in the sequel, but no sign of them currently existing.

Yet, the stuff they left behind is *remarkably* well preserved. Those cardboard boxes would be destroyed the first time it rained, meaning that whatever happened, they disappeared *recently.*

So like, did Human engineer pikmin for some reason? Becuase the Onions are biomechanical in nature, they clearly didn't evolve naturally, and maybe some of the other flora/fauna hybrids? And then like, wipe themselves out days before Olimar got here?

And pikmin can't get themselves out of the ground, something has to remove them, so unless the humanoid stage is a byproduct and they're meant to stay in the ground longer for some other development and...

And the flowers that you sacrifice pikmin too and they spit ou seeds of a differant pikmin type... That's an oddly specific thing, they aren't obviously mechanical like the onions but again, not something that you'd think could occur in nature.

----------


## LaZodiac

> And thus, Zodi proves herself better at Pikmin than I ever was and ever will be.
> 
> Something I want to know: Where do they come from? Like, there are clear signs of an advanced, human-scale society, probably actual humans given some stuff you find in the sequel, but no sign of them currently existing.
> 
> Yet, the stuff they left behind is *remarkably* well preserved. Those cardboard boxes would be destroyed the first time it rained, meaning that whatever happened, they disappeared *recently.*
> 
> So like, did Human engineer pikmin for some reason? Becuase the Onions are biomechanical in nature, they clearly didn't evolve naturally, and maybe some of the other flora/fauna hybrids? And then like, wipe themselves out days before Olimar got here?
> 
> And pikmin can't get themselves out of the ground, something has to remove them, so unless the humanoid stage is a byproduct and they're meant to stay in the ground longer for some other development and...
> ...


I don't think the planet was abandoned recently. The note Olimar gives is that the planet's environment is toxic, so my personal guess is that the planet has been through some sort of environmental apocalypse. The world is still alive, still adapting, still creating nature that can live in this world, since it's been long enough... but nothing human remains. This does raise questions about the cardboard boxes, but my read on them is that they're secretly nests for Sheargrubs and the like. They eat wood after all, they could be like paper wasps, devouring pulp and then creating structures from it. They just make boxes instead, and the numbers are incidental. Later stuff we see has way more wear and tear on it, after all.

As for the Pikmin, I think they are capable of picking themselves, but they're a species that is prone to internal collapse due to predation. Any command units that grow don't last long enough to do much more than grow the population enough to feed predators, and the onion uses the left over energy to propagate more. My personal opinion is that the singular seed shot out from an Onion on the full wipe-out of a Pikmin is the next command unit, and they function similarly to how Olimar commands them. Notedly, if Olimar fails to escape, they bring him to an onion and he gets turned into a Pikmin, it wouldn't be 100% unlikely that this would be an attempt to revive him before the wilderness wipes out the Pikmin.

As for the tech-integration a fair number of species in this world show... I think part of that is just the natural adaptations of a post apocolypse world. The environment is beautiful but deadly, ad constantly shifting. It would make sense that some species start incorporating the surrounding pollutants into their being. All of the spiders being basically walking orbs full of organs and goodies (with the most advanced of them having a variety of high power machinery at its disposable that it seamlessly integrates on the fly) seem to imply that pretty heavily. And that's not even getting into the Water Wraith and the golden siren from the third game.

======

Also, as a heads up: next week will be streamed Sunday, and as said in video we're gonna be going to the next game on that pole we did. So that's gonna be a blind stream of Gris!

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## Rater202

Olimar says that the environment is toxic _because it has oxygen_.

While large quantities of oxygen are toxic, the note seems to imply that any amount of oxygen is toxic to Olimar's species. So whatever happened it wasn't that.

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## LaZodiac

> Olimar says that the environment is toxic _because it has oxygen_.
> 
> While large quantities of oxygen are toxic, the note seems to imply that any amount of oxygen is toxic to Olimar's species. So whatever happened it wasn't that.


Fair point. He is very tiny, Earth may have too much oxygen for him. Maybe the environmental apocalypse got fixed by all the monster plant life-forms?

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## Rater202

So I looked it up, apparently, Pikmin's planet is Earth 250 million years in the future.

...Which, raises some questions about how some of those treasures can still be around in the later games.

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## LaZodiac

> So I looked it up, apparently, Pikmin's planet is Earth 250 million years in the future.
> 
> ...Which, raises some questions about how some of those treasures can still be around in the later games.


Pikmin clearly takes place in a future where everything has a thin layer of Nintendium on it, making them indestructible.

Also a note; stream will happen tomorrow at the typical time (12:30 mountain time). This is the schedule change I mentioned earlier in thread, just posting it here to make sure y'all know.

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## Rater202

Zodi, I saw the stream highlight.

Are... Are you okay?

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## Lord Raziere

> Zodi, I saw the stream highlight.
> 
> Are... Are you okay?


Yes she is okay, she just had a moment of catharsis from a scare, its better if you watch the whole thing Gris is good artsy game about grief and mourning.

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## Rater202

> Yes she is okay, she just had a moment of catharsis from a scare, its better if you watch the whole thing Gris is good artsy game about grief and mourning.


I'll get to it in a bit. Kind of backed up on stuff I need to watch.

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## LaZodiac

> Zodi, I saw the stream highlight.
> 
> Are... Are you okay?


I'm okay I just got did a real frighten  :Small Big Grin: 




> Yes she is okay, she just had a moment of catharsis from a scare, its better if you watch the whole thing Gris is good artsy game about grief and mourning.


Second this whenever y'all have the time. I'll post the link below.




> I'll get to it in a bit. Kind of backed up on stuff I need to watch.


Very understandable! Hope you enjoy when you do.

======

*Zodi Streams: GRIS*

Video Length: 3:34:06

Gris is a game about lose, acceptance, and the path to it. It is a beautiful artsy game that I can't really do justice just by talking about here. I do recommend you watch it.

Volume warning for certain parts of the water area. To put it lightly the game successfully drew me and did a very big scare.

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## LaZodiac

Just a heads up; stream will be today, not Sunday, this week and probably next week! Me and Qwerty are doing the Pokemon Colosseum randomizer like last week! Hope you all enjoy.

(Sorry for lack of videos; I was all prepped and ready to record stuff but then my job got sliced in half and I had to hustle to find a way to continue living. I'm starting my new Job Nov 21st though! This week there'll be more Zelda, and more consistent Zelda now that life has settled down).

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## Rater202

> (Sorry for lack of videos; I was all prepped and ready to record stuff but then my job got sliced in half and I had to hustle to find a way to continue living. I'm starting my new Job Nov 21st though! This week there'll be more Zelda, and more consistent Zelda now that life has settled down).


Hooray! Go Zodi, mask them Majoras.

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## LaZodiac

Internet decided to be ****y so we're going to try streaming tomorrow instead.

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## Lord Raziere

Yeah sometimes internet fairies just decide to randomly make things not work, too bad. cya tomorrow then!

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## Rater202

So... How are Pokemon randomizers a thing, anyway?

I notice you're streaming one but I never saw the appeal.

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## LaZodiac

> So... How are Pokemon randomizers a thing, anyway?
> 
> I notice you're streaming one but I never saw the appeal.


I don't know all the specifics since I'm not a programmer (Qwerty would be better suited for that) but the basics of it is that there is a little program outside of the game that you put the game into, fill in some options, and then it scrambles the data so that it gets the desired outcome of "changing up what these little buddies are".

That's the mechanical answer anyway. For the functional answer; people really like Pokemon, and really like trying to inject more of a challenge, or more of a variety, into Pokemon, so they often turn to dark magics and the like. With Colosseum especially it's interesting because of the double battle format and the fact that your resources ARE so limited.

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## Lord Raziere

yeah, randomizers are a thing the same way nuzlockes are thing: because people are too attached to the pokemon franchise they know to seek out some other game that is pokemon-like but more challenging (which to be fair wasn't much of a thing until recently when some came on Steam) but they still find it to easy, so they start changing up how they play it or additional rules that make you have to think of things you normally wouldn't. honestly just a randomizer is pretty light, there are some people who do pokemon challenges that are crazy things with like a million rules and you die once you restart the whole run and such. 

even I kinda try to challenge myself by seeking out primarily new pokemon in each gen and catch female ones only, though these aren't rules so much as preferences, as I tend to overlook the starter as they are male 90% of the time and if I see a previous gen 'mon I really like I will use that out of preference.

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## Rater202

So, I see there is more Paper Mario... and you almost laugh yourself to death over your own mistakes before the game even starts.

Not gonna lie, part of me gets concerned for your health every time you laugh like that.

Seasonal variant screen art is nice... But I see that Robin's eyes have changed color in the interim. Wish I could recalibrate _my_ eyeballs...

Given the fact that the next game's English localizations censors the fact that one of the characters is transfem, even if one of the spirits did use it/its pronouns I wouldn't assume it to be because of progressiveness.

Spelling was invented by publishing companies to sell more dictionaries.

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## LaZodiac

> So, I see there is more Paper Mario... and you almost laugh yourself to death over your own mistakes before the game even starts.
> 
> Not gonna lie, part of me gets concerned for your health every time you laugh like that.
> 
> Seasonal variant screen art is nice... But I see that Robin's eyes have changed color in the interim. Wish I could recalibrate _my_ eyeballs...
> 
> Given the fact that the next game's English localizations censors the fact that one of the characters is transfem, even if one of the spirits did use it/its pronouns I wouldn't assume it to be because of progressiveness.
> 
> Spelling was invented by publishing companies to sell more dictionaries.


Forgot to respond to this due to a variety of factors.

Look sometimes my friends are really funny. And I do appreciate the concern Rater- know that it is not uncommon, people get concerned by my laughing fits all the time. They're safe, though, no problem.

Robin recalibratted them for Pokemon Violet, which ironically fit the purple colour of Sainte Nuit quite well. What a powerful skill!

Yeah... and lets not forget the two friends who are girls who live in Toad Town after moving in together. Completely normal behavior.

True!

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## Rater202

I've already noted just how weird it is that Mario has been falsely accused of crimes and then just assumed to be guilty on flimsy evidence more than once. At least this time he's getting a chance to prove his innocence. In Sunshine, the actual criminal can run right passed the police and they won't even budge and they still think you did it after saving the day.

Darth titles, if we're going by Legends, seem to be descriptions of the Sith in question. For example, the Sith Inquisitor in the Old Republic can gain one of three titles depending on the choices they've made: If you have made mostly dark side choices, you're called Darth Nox due to your devotion to the Dark Side, if you've made a balance of light side and dark side choices you get dubbed Darth Obscurus since nobody's quite sure of your true motives, and if you're somehow a light sider you get the title Darth Imperius because your unorthodox, out of the box tactic of not being a raging ******* has caused you to develop a very impressive power base.

So Zodi, you'd probably be something like... Darth Scriptor, referring to your talent and an author and creator

...Of course, Darth Zash is just... Zash's actual name. She didn't take a new title when she was promoted from Lord to Darth. so Darth Zodi might be appropriate after all.

Incidentally, while Vader being "father" in german is true, that was not intended as a hint that he was Luke's father as that was a retcon. Lucas claimed it was always the plan, but he's been known to lie about that ****.

I mean, do you know what Hemmingway sounded like?

Unfortunately, having been assimilated into Mario's stand, Goombario shall never grow old enough to learn to read.

As of nothing, the Mayor of Townsville's name was Mayor Mayor. So Mayor Mayor was elected Mayor.

...And he wasn't even dead, what the ****? How incompetent is that detective?

...I don't know why, but the wife's reaction and the Mayor's line made me think of th eIirish Folk song Finnegan's Wake. Tim Finnegan, a workman who has a love of whiskey and has "a drop of the crayture every morn" dies from falling off his ladder. His wake, in the Irish tradition, is a celebration of his life rather than a mourning of his passing and, like many an Irish party involved consumption of alcohol. And one thing lead to another, it turned into a brawl, a bottle of whiskey got shattered above Tim and spilled over his corpse, and then...

"Tim revives! See how he rises. Timothy rising from the bed. Said 'Whirl your whiskey around like blazes. Thundering Jesus, do you think I'm dead?'"

Whiskey, you see, is derived from a Gaelic phrase that means roughly "the water of life."

And I kind of get the feeling that this isn't the first time something like this has happened. You're gonna come back through and immediately get arrested because everyone thinks he's dead again.

You know... It's kind of suspicious that the small town from _Murder She Wrote_ has so many homicides. More homicides per capita than it should. And whenever the protagonist leaves town, there happens to be a murder at her destination. By the entire series the majority of th epopulation of the town should be dead or moved to somewhere safer.

so Koopa Junior or whatever his name is is both a magikoopa _and_ a paratroopa? I suppose that next time he'll be able to breathe fire like Bowser and his children...

...Wait, is he supposed to be the same Koopa subspecies as browser?

Oh no! He has PlayStation magic!

"There once was a Koopa from Nantucket, who kept all his coins in a bucket. One day came a plumber, whose theft made Koopa feel dumber, and so the Koopa said 'darn it.'"

...For the record, the orignal version of the Man from Nantucket was perfectly safe for work. The more well-known one was a parody.

Mario in Final Fantasy

"I'mma cast Fire-a on you!" *proceeds to cast fire.*

"That was just fire."

"That's-a what I said-a, Fire-a."

"No that's."

"Whose-ona first, anyway."

Tell Robin she had nothing to be anxious about regarding the lyrics.

...Monstar's aura gives me void envy.

So... Is there a reason why a bunch of babies in a trenchcoat attacked you?

Unpopular opinion: If raising kids is like fighting a war every day then you're a bad parent.

So... Regarding that "ROG where the non-human races evolve into stronger forms bit it's Mario" idea I mentioned back when you recruited Bombette if tar Kids were a race and being a full-fledged Star Spirit was their final form, what would the middle stages be?

"Bad with names though. Mine's Martin but he keeps calling me Mario."

Are we just assuming that the weather here is like in Yellowknife in winter? When ice crystals in the air mean that walking when it's windy is like getting a face full of knives?

...I don't get the Lewis joke.

It's gonna turn out that Mario just needs to wear a scarf and mittens because of how cold it is.

I think you missed one of the Ninjis.

...Oh, it's the bucket that the Koopa from Nantucket kept his coins in.

Fire shell is five.

White chocolate is life. It is second only to dark chocolate.

Are you really a ghost if you've ascended beyond your plane of existence?

I too would like to wear fancy clothes and take long, enthusiastic walks.

The guy who voiced Mario also voiced Paarthurnax.

Goombas are l like Cotton Hill, ain't no shins so they have knees instead of ankles.

----------


## LaZodiac

> *edited for length*


One day Mario will arrive in a new place and be hailed a hero on entry because they're aware of how good a dude he is or something. Today is not that day.

Aww, thanks for the compliment. Darth Scriptor also has like, just a bit of goofy menace that I think a good sith name would need.

*Yes actually, we do know what Hemmingway sounds like!*

Mayor Mayor, I was recently acquainted with Supreme Sea Sea in Yugioh, and of course there's Moon Moon... I love double names like this.

The inspector never learned how to take a pulse! It happens!

Finnegan's Wake is a good bit of fun.

I've always kinda figured magikoopa and parakoopa were titles, and not a species. Like, a magikoopas are koopas who have learned wizardry, and parakoopas are koopas who are trained at using the super-wings. So I figure Jr. Troopa here is just a really quick study when it comes to various magics and items.

Only if a bunch of babies decided to stack together, put on a big spooky costume, and attack people... I feel like that's motive enough for it to happen. They thought it'd be a great idea! More seriously it's likely because they're scared and Doing Something is better than Not.

The middle stage of star kids and star spirits is "star teen who is good enough to fight but must protect themselves and thus possesses an appropriate object suited for combat", kinda like Geno.

If Twink ever were to say Luigi's name during this game, it'd come out as Lewis. Ergo any time Luigi makes a wish, if Twink were to grant it, he'd grant Luigi's wish... to a rando named Lewis.

RE "are you a ghost if you've ascended beyond this your plane of existence" yes, absolutely. You've left the physical plane and are now living as an ascended spirit- which is a type of ghost. The Chozo on Talon IV are a good example of this... and a good example of how that can be dangerous for your psyche if there's any semi-sentient psionic mutagen around. Also note to self; stream Metroid Prime.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Only if a bunch of babies decided to stack together, put on a big spooky costume, and attack people... I feel like that's motive enough for it to happen. They thought it'd be a great idea! More seriously it's likely because they're scared and Doing Something is better than Not.


I always figured the star kids made the Monstar illusion to protect Starborn Valley from Bowser's minions or the local monsters. after all there are piranha plants and gulpin around, they're threatening and the toads and ninjis at Starborn Valley are probably more trained in caring for kids than fighting people. Bowsers minions have never shown themselves to be particularly intelligent so I can see them falling for scooby doo villain scare tactics, and the caretakers let the star kids do it because it keeps them all safe- besides the star kids with their ability to fly are faster than anyone on foot so if anyone has the best chance of escaping battle and letting everyone else know of danger its them.

and it makes sense for them to even attack Mario because the duplighosts exist and might've used the mario disguise to try and sneak in before. as they demonstrate when they try to imitate Kooper, the duplighosts are perfectly capable of taking forms of people that aren't in the immediate vicinity, and mario's personality would be more well known than all of them because of his fame. 

also the star kids are at the very least, a little magical and due to what we see later can get more magical and powerful from people believing in them and they have an entire small town of people who believe them- also if Twink is any indication, Star kids are tougher than they seem.

----------

