# Forum > Play-by-Post Games > Finding Players (Recruitment) > GM Needed Not your ordinary vampire game

## Lioslaith

I floated an idea a while ago about playing a vampire in a 5e game but I really don't want to play the nerfed down version that is in D&D.  It attracted a DM and we had a good start but then as is typical of games here it just seemed to die off.  I would like to see them more on the scale of the movie vampires.  Granted this would need to be fairly high level, probably gestalt, etc, etc.  I am more than willing to help with story ideas, plot points etc.  I really just want to play a bad ass vampire in a game.

Thanks in advance for any interest.

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## josienoms

Quick question! Have you ever played Vampire: the Masquerade? Or its pseudo reboot/spiritual successor Vampire: the Requiem?

Youd probably find either of those systems to be more in line with what youre looking for than any edition of D&D.

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## Lioslaith

I have and cant say that Im a fan of them in the least. Thanks though.

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## Darius Vibrtrar

I'm interested in playing!

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## Aleph Null

I do think there would be better systems than D&D for this, or at least better ones than 5e, but this is an interesting enough idea already that I'll throw in a tentative interest as a player.

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## GentlemanVoodoo

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by powerful vampires and more movie like?

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## Lioslaith

Think along the lines of Dracula Untold, or Selene, The Originals, Legacies, True Blood or even Blade.  Those types.

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## Aleph Null

> Think along the lines of Dracula Untold, or Selene, The Originals, Legacies, True Blood or even Blade.  Those types.


So basically 5e vampires but also not instagibbed the instant they step into the sun or get shoved into a river?
I always did find the running water weakness to be a bit odd -- as far as I was aware from lore vampires are unable to cross running water as a compulsion, in the same way as they can't enter a home uninvited, but touching it due to being forced wasn't a death sentence like it is in D&D.

That said, the original vampire stories (particularly Dracula) took the weaknesses of the vampire from the conditions of the actual people they were based on -- Count Dracula was allergic to garlic and had a skin condition that caused him to sunburn easily, for instance. 

I'm liking this idea, though the mechanics will have to be solidified by whomst'd-ever* decides to GM this.
*I may have written whomst'd've'ly'yaint'nt'ed'ies's'y'es-ever here originally and decided that was too hard to read
Anyway, let's see if we get someone to do that :P

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## Metastachydium

> That said, the original vampire stories (particularly Dracula) took the weaknesses of the vampire from the conditions of the actual people they were based on -- Count Dracula was allergic to garlic and had a skin condition that caused him to sunburn easily, for instance.


Your pardon? "Count Dracula" was never a real person and contrary to popular belief, isn't based on a real person either. The garlic thing is a generic apotropaic practice from Balkans folklore and Stoker's Dracula is not directly harmed by sunlight in any way; he meraly finds it annoying and he can't use some of his powers (e.g. his shapeshifting) while directly exposed to it.

Other than the extreme sunlight vulnerability (which I'm not _sure_ was a thing in vampire stories prior to _Nosferatu_), the 3.5 vampire represents Dracula's skill set pretty well, by the way (shapeshifting, controlling animals, draining vitality, mind control, climbing on walls like a lizard &c.).

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## Lioslaith

> So basically 5e vampires but also not instagibbed the instant they step into the sun or get shoved into a river?
> I always did find the running water weakness to be a bit odd -- as far as I was aware from lore vampires are unable to cross running water as a compulsion, in the same way as they can't enter a home uninvited, but touching it due to being forced wasn't a death sentence like it is in D&D.
> 
> That said, the original vampire stories (particularly Dracula) took the weaknesses of the vampire from the conditions of the actual people they were based on -- Count Dracula was allergic to garlic and had a skin condition that caused him to sunburn easily, for instance. 
> 
> I'm liking this idea, though the mechanics will have to be solidified by whomst'd-ever* decides to GM this.
> *I may have written whomst'd've'ly'yaint'nt'ed'ies's'y'es-ever here originally and decided that was too hard to read
> Anyway, let's see if we get someone to do that :P


In game mechanics terms I'd like to see it crafted similar to a gestalt game with a monster race on one side (the vampire) and classes on the other.  Then get rid of some of the more debilitating weaknesses of the vampire like the sunlight and running water thing, yes.

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## Metastachydium

> In game mechanics terms I'd like to see it crafted similar to a gestalt game with a monster race on one side (the vampire) and classes on the other.  Then get rid of some of the more debilitating weaknesses of the vampire like the sunlight and running water thing, yes.


Again, 3.5 would help a ton with that. 3.5 vampire is a template, and you can just ignore the LA if there is no non-vampire PC, getting the whole package and the ability to just take class levels from the get-go.

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## Lioslaith

> Again, 3.5 would help a ton with that. 3.5 vampire is a template, and you can just ignore the LA if there is no non-vampire PC, getting the whole package and the ability to just take class levels from the get-go.


3.5 is so convoluted.  I'd play a game if it was offered but I'd prefer it to be 5e.

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## Metastachydium

> 3.5 is so convoluted.  I'd play a game if it was offered but I'd prefer it to be 5e.


I'd say gestalting classes with some heavy duty homebrewn ability package in a system that's infamous for being hostile towards complex, monstrous racial options sounds kind of convoluted itself. But yeah, 3.5 can be a wild ride even for those of us who don't normally deal in tamer editions instead.

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## Lioslaith

> I'd say gestalting classes with some heavy duty homebrewn ability package in a system that's infamous for being hostile towards complex, monstrous racial options sounds kind of convoluted itself. But yeah, 3.5 can be a wild ride even for those of us who don't normally deal in tamer editions instead.


It could get that way certainly but it doesnt have to. Simple system, simple gestalt. Are you thinking of running it?

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## GentlemanVoodoo

> In game mechanics terms I'd like to see it crafted similar to a gestalt game with a monster race on one side (the vampire) and classes on the other.  Then get rid of some of the more debilitating weaknesses of the vampire like the sunlight and running water thing, yes.


Hmm, I was tempted to possibly run something but let's clarify a few things first before I commit to being a DM.

Firstly, are you wanting a gestalt game? If so, then I'm not going to be the DM for this. I have nothing personal against such games, but I just don't like to run them.

Secondly, what is the scope of the game truly? You have mentioned such titles as Dracula Untold, Underworld, etc. which indicates high amounts of combat. So does this mean you are essentially wanting a dungeon crawl type of game? If not what specifically is it you want?

Thirdly, on vampires as characters what are you really wanting? To play a vampire character means to have some downsides for it is a curse after all. Though it sounds like you want something more akin to day walkers. Some powers without the drawbacks. If so then 5e already has this covered with the Dhampir lineage and also Vampire races from the Planeshift MTG supplements. I would mechanics wise tweek a few things but ultimately 5e has this covered. So is this what you are really wanting?

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## Darius Vibrtrar

If you did 5e, retooling the reborn race sounds like it would be the best way to do it

Or what he said!!!!

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## Metastachydium

> It could get that way certainly but it doesnt have to. Simple system, simple gestalt. Are you thinking of running it?


I'm probably not the right person for that (I think you might need an experienced GM here) and I don't do 5e.

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## Aleph Null

> Your pardon? "Count Dracula" was never a real person and contrary to popular belief, isn't based on a real person either. The garlic thing is a generic apotropaic practice from Balkans folklore and Stoker's Dracula is not directly harmed by sunlight in any way; he meraly finds it annoying and he can't use some of his powers (e.g. his shapeshifting) while directly exposed to it.
> 
> Other than the extreme sunlight vulnerability (which I'm not _sure_ was a thing in vampire stories prior to _Nosferatu_), the 3.5 vampire represents Dracula's skill set pretty well, by the way (shapeshifting, controlling animals, draining vitality, mind control, climbing on walls like a lizard &c.).


I'm pretty sure Stoker based Dracula on an amalgamation of members of a noble family in Prussia, but I could be mistaken. Not any one person, certainly, but rather a combination of a bunch of them together with eastern European mythos stuff. But I digress.

I do recall the 3.5e vampire template being decently faithful to folklore, and also that 3.5e had different "versions" of the template that represented different vampire or vampire-adjacent creatures in different cultures' mythology. I do think 3.5e would be a far better system for a game like this, since 5e has vampires having legendary actions and such which means that a vampire game would require using a gimped version to avoid that nonsense (though I personally don't see as much of an issue with PC legendary actions in a PbP game, it could still be a bit hectic if the GM isn't prepared).

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## Lioslaith

> Hmm, I was tempted to possibly run something but let's clarify a few things first before I commit to being a DM.
> 
> Firstly, are you wanting a gestalt game? If so, then I'm not going to be the DM for this. I have nothing personal against such games, but I just don't like to run them.  At first glance it seems like gestalt may be the only way to get to the power level I was thinking of but I am certainly willing to give other options a shot.
> 
> Secondly, what is the scope of the game truly? You have mentioned such titles as Dracula Untold, Underworld, etc. which indicates high amounts of combat. So does this mean you are essentially wanting a dungeon crawl type of game? If not what specifically is it you want?  I have a couple idea rattling around in my head, 1) A world where slavery is the accepted norm and the PC's are all opposed to it, viva la restiance!  Although since we don't share the world viewpoint we are seen as terrorists to the 'normal' way of life.  2) Someone or something is threatening the "church's" (a world wide organization) power by systematically killing off it's paladins, clergy, etc.  We are tasked with rooting out that issue.  Or other things in that scope.  At higher levels the combat can get a bit mundane so I would like to see more RP really, though I would still want to kick but some as well.
> 
> Thirdly, on vampires as characters what are you really wanting? To play a vampire character means to have some downsides for it is a curse after all. Though it sounds like you want something more akin to day walkers. Some powers without the drawbacks. If so then 5e already has this covered with the Dhampir lineage and also Vampire races from the Planeshift MTG supplements. I would mechanics wise tweek a few things but ultimately 5e has this covered. So is this what you are really wanting?  I guess the issue that is ultimately bothering me about it is that vampires, taken in that racial context, aren't any different than any other typical race.  I'd like to see something that didn't fit that norm.


Tried to answer above.  Let me know if I just made it worse.

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## Metastachydium

> I'm pretty sure Stoker based Dracula on an amalgamation of members of a noble family in Prussia, but I could be mistaken. Not any one person, certainly, but rather a combination of a bunch of them together with eastern European mythos stuff. But I digress.


[DIGRESSION]Oh. I'm not sure I'm familiar with that theory, but it sounds interesting; I'll have to look into it. Still, checking the novel against Stoker's preserved notes, I find it difficult not to conclude that he's really just a heterosexual male version of LeFanu's Carmilla, dressed up with surprisingly well-researched stuff from folklore, hence my grumpy comments.[/DIGRESSION]




> I do recall the 3.5e vampire template being decently faithful to folklore, and also that 3.5e had different "versions" of the template that represented different vampire or vampire-adjacent creatures in different cultures' mythology.


Yeah, the base template's pretty solid and there's a lot of alternate stuff. _LM_ alone has five variants plus the half-vampire, the hooded pupil and a vampire spawn savage class. Other books add more to the mix.




> I guess the issue that is ultimately bothering me about it is that vampires, taken in that racial context, aren't any different than any other typical race. I'd like to see something that didn't fit that norm.


That's half the reason I'm skeptical about the whole concept. 5e's design philosophy _revolves around_ the Norm. It's hard to go crazy with a system that _hates_ crazy.

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## Darius Vibrtrar

If doing 3.5, could do the unearthed arcana vampire bloodline

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## GentlemanVoodoo

> Tried to answer above.  Let me know if I just made it worse.


No it addresses my questions but there are somethings also to acknowledge regarding 5e. As Metastachydium has noted their are some limitors of the 5e system. While I disagree this is related to "the norm", it still doesn't change the fact that 5e is limited in its capacity. The reason I say is because of the more simplistic design in the system as compared to elder editions like third edition. However that doesn't mean something that fits within the simplistic system can't be crafted to make things easy for players and easy on me if I DM something.

I was thinking on a few things and came up with the following. In short the idea is to apply just a standard template of strengths and weaknesses (yes vampires have weaknesses since it is a curse) but make these limited to the more common aspects found in lore, stories and other media. Additionally, at first level and ever ASI level afterwards, the characters may select a special power that runs off of Hit Die. So here is a first draft of sorts.

*Spoiler: Vampire Character Mechanics*
Show


*Base Effects:*
Upon being transformed into a vampire you gain the following items in addition to class and racial abilities:

_Undead Nature:_ 
In addition to your normal race you are considered as one of the Undead. Spells or abilities that impact an undead creature whether positive, negative, or indifferent impact you in the specified manner. Likewise you do not breath, age, or need to consume food to survive. However you still require normal rest just like any other creature.

_Damage Resistance:_ 
As one of the Undead, you gain resistance to Necrotic damage. This turns into immunity at level 10.

_Natural Attacks:_ 
You gain a bite attack that counts as a simple weapon you are proficient in. The bite attack deals 1d4 piercing damage. 
_
Enhanced Senses:_ 
Vampires are creatures of the night thus you gain darkvision of 60 feet if your race does not already grant this feature.  Further, as you are a predator, you gain advantage on perception checks made that rely upon scent to find beings that contain blood.

_Expanded Hit Die:_ 
As Vampires many of your abilities and healing is based on the vitae in your system.  Thus your Hit Die pool is expanded to now be equaled to you character level + your Constitution stat total (not modifier). The stat total is based on initial scores at character creation and increases via level up. Magical effects or gear do not increase this total.

*Weaknesses*
As a vampire you have the following weaknesses as a result of your curse:

- You are more affected to things of a holy nature. When you take Radiant damage, it is doubled. Likewise, silver is a blight to you. If you come in contact with something made of silver you suffer 1 point of Radiant damage and weapons made of silver cause double damage of their type.

- Should your heart be pieced by a sharp wooden stake, whether made or naturally occurring, you are considered incapacitated and paralyzed until it is removed. You are still conscious however to hear and see your surroundings.

- Sunlight to you is the greatest of enemies. When you start your turn in sunlight you take Radiant damage equal 5 + your current character level. This damage may not be prevented or reduced in any manner regardless of effect. If your character is reduced to 0 Hit Points in this way they die instantly. Additionally, you have disadvantage on any rolls while in sunlight. No magical effect or spell may change this. This effect however does not apply should you find suitable covering for a creature your size or a spell produces an effect to block out sunlight such as Darkness. Likewise, this weakness is not limited to just natural sunlight. Should a magical spell or effect mimic natural sunlight, such as the Daylight spell, these effects trigger.

- You do not regain healing in the normal manner as living creatures do. In order to heal your wounds, you must expend Hit Die. However, you are not required to wait for a short or long rest. In combat, you may spend an action to roll up to a total number of Hit Die equal to your Constitution modifier each turn. During non-combat periods, you may spend as much Hit Die as available to you. Additionally, you gain no healing from magical spells or effects that provide healing unless they can impact Undead creatures. Necrotic sources of damage as well do not provide you healing. However, magical spells or effects which provide Temporary Hit Points function has normal.

- You are required to consume blood of living creatures to sustain yourself. Normal food does not provide you any benefits though you are still able to engage the act of consumption. What is consumed however is vomited up later. To consume blood you must engage either through the use of your bite or the blood must be freshly drawn out.

For the bite method, the creature of your bite attack must be grappled, restrained, incapacitated or willingly be subject to it. As part of an attack action made with your bite you may attempt a grapple check against a creature. Regardless, if successful you may drain a number of Hit Die equal to the damage dealt by your bite. In subsequent turns, you may still engage in the bite though if you originally grappled a creature you still must continue to make successes to continue. Further actions are required to spend the Hit Die as normal. If a creature is totally drained of their Hit Die, they die.

For the drawn out method, this requires you to make a successful physical attack of some type involving a slashing or piercing source of damage. If successfully, as a bonus action you may lick the physical medium that made the attack as blood is covering it. In this method, you heal a number of Hit Points equal to the damage die rolled (not including modifiers). Further this must be done in the same turn, as fresh blood is all that satiates you. This method does not provide full healing but is an option for a quick fix.

Regardless of whatever method you use, only mortal races and animals may be fed from. This essentially means beings with only the Humanoid and Beast traits.

*Vampiric Powers:*
While the Vampiric curse has many negatives, you gain a certain measure of unique abilities that make you powerful in your own right. Starting at Level 1 and every 4th level gain their after, you may select one of the following abilities. Activation of the ability requires a bonus action and Hit Die. Most abilities require only one expanded Hit Die for use though certain abilities may state more is required. If you lack the number of required Hit Die you may not use the ability.

*Note: The below are just a few examples I worked up and not the final.*

_Animal Forms -_ 
This power allows a vampire to assume the appearance of a normal creature with the beast trait as a means of travel or for a quick escape. The form selected is one that is no bigger than medium size or a Challenge rating greater than 1/8. While is this form, the vampire assumes the physical appearance and abilities of the creature though retains their mental stats. Further, the vampire may not attack while in this form and the form lasts for 1 minute. A vampire may continue to expand Hit Die at the end of this duration to maintain the form.

_Celerity -_ 
This power allows the vampire to increase all movement speeds and jumping by 10 feet. This effect lasts for one minute though the vampire may expend additional Hit Die at the end of the duration to increase the effect.

_Charm -_ 
This power allows the vampire to target one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. If the target see the vampire they must make a DC 17 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed by the vampire. The charmed target regards the vampire as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected. Although the target isn't under the vampire's control, it takes the vampire's requests or actions in the most favorable way it can, and it is a willing target for the vampire's bite attack. Each time the vampire or the vampire's companions do anything harmful to the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts 1 hour, the vampire is destroyed, is on a different plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus action to end the effect. A vampire may expend multiple Hit Die to increase the duration by 1 hour for each spent. The vampire may multiple individuals charmed but no more than half their current level (minimum 1).
_
Children of the Night-_
The vampire magically calls The vampire magically calls 2d4 swarms of bats or rats, provided that the sun isn't up. While outdoors, the vampire can call 3d6 wolves instead. The called creatures arrive in 1d4 rounds, acting as allies of the vampire and obeying its spoken commands. The beasts remain for 1 hour, until the vampire dies, or until the vampire dismisses them as a bonus action. This ability requires 4 Hit Die.
_
Elemental Forms -_ 
This power allows the vampire to turn into some form of an elemental form such as mist, a puddle of water or something similar to disguise themselves or move through areas they normally couldnÂt due to their size. While in this form, the vampireÂs speed is reduced to 10 feet of movement though they gain the Amorphous and False Appearance creature traits. Further they are treated as having the Tiny size. This form lasts for 1 minute though  a vampire may continue to expand Hit Die at the end of this duration to maintain the form.

_Spider Climb -_
The vampire can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check. This power may also be used in combination with the Elemental and Animal Forms powers. The duration is 1 minute though the vampire may expend additional hit die to continue the power at the end of the duration.
_
Vampiric Physical Might -_ 
This power allows the vampire to gain advantage on any ability check related to their physical attributes. The vampire selects either Strength, Dexterity or Constitution and gains advantage on any roll related to the chosen stat. This effect lasts for 1 minute though a vampire may expend additional Hit Die to select another stat.

_Vampiric Mental Might -_ 
This power allows the vampire to gain advantage on any ability check related to their mental attributes. The vampire selects either Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma and gains advantage on any roll related to the chosen stat. This effect lasts for 1 minute though a vampire may expend additional Hit Die to select another stat.
_
Memory Recall -_
This power allow the vampire to tap into the memories of the victims they feed from and make certain aspects their own. The vampire expends one Hit Die and may gains proficiency in one skill, language, or tool that the last person they fed from possessed. This effect lasts for 1 hour though at the end of the duration the memory of the skill, language or tool is lost from memory. Likewise, this power may be used to recall one recent memory of the victim that was last feed possessed. The memory recalled is random and shown in the vampireÂs mind as a flash of images. If the memory has speech as part of it, the vampire must know the language of the victim in order to understand it.

_Vampiric Resistances -_
This power grants the vampire a resistance to a physical source of damage. The vampire selects either bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing as the source and expends a Hit Die to gain resistance to that chosen source. This lasts for 1 minute though the vampire may expand additional Hit Die to select additional sources. The damage prevent must be from non-magical sources or weapons that are not made of silver.

_Advanced Animal Forms -_
This power allows the vampire to assume a more advanced animal form. The vampire may turn into a creature that is of a large size, may contain the swarm creature trait, be of a Challenge Rate up to 1, or may contain the Monstrous trait. The duration and limitations are still the same as those of the Animal Form ability.

_Summon -_
This power may only be used on someone that was targeted by the Charm ability. The vampire may expend a Hit Die to send out a psychic impulse to call the creature to them provided the creature is within 1 mile of their present location and on the same plane as the vampire. The creature will willing answer the vampireÂs call and use whatever means it possesses to reach the vampireÂs destination. Though it is still subject to travel time and conditions that may impede travel. 

_Blood Magic -_
This ability allows a more magical based vampire to use their own blood as a source of magic for their spells. You may expand Hit Die to cast a spell instead of using a spell slot. This does not apply to cantrips as they have no spell slot costs. The number of Hit Die expanded is equal to the spell slot required regardless if the spell is being cast at the normal level or being upcasted. In the case of Warlock spells, the amount of Hit Die to expand is equal to the current spell slot level you are at. This ability only provides a substitute for need of spell slots in casters. All other rules or requirements for the spell still function as normal.




As to other mechanics, the combination of this with a player's class and racial features provides enough bang for a powerful character. Regarding a story and setting, I have been tossing the following around taken into your suggestions:

*Spoiler: Game Pitch - Basic items*
Show


Level: Starting at 5-7ish. Finishing at 20 or for as long as this last/has interest.

Sources: All official published WOTC sources. This includes the other stuff such as Wildmounte and the MTG Planeshift supplements. I will take UA on a case by case basis and will be throwing in approved homebrew/other 3rd Party items I have personally used or had experience with. For example, three defaults are Dark Arts, Sprouting Chaos, and The Compendium of Forgotten Secrets by Genuine Fantasy Press.

Setting: Forgotten Realms.

Plot: Faerun has been busy with a lot of activity. Such things as the activity of dragon and elemental cultist, along with establishing the pecking order of Giants, cities disappearing like old Elturel, and funny things going on in the Icewind Dale has everyone on edge and distracted. Though a more pressing event that is hitting everyone is the bitter civil war occurring in the Zhentarim. The organization is at odds with several factions competing for dominance. One side is the newer rebranded Zhentarim that is more focused on mercenary and other similar financial interest (even if not quite so legal). The other wishes for a return to the old days of the "Black Network" that was bent on dominance as a political force. A sinister madman and devout worshiper of Bane has struck a critical blow to the other factions driving them away from their headquarters in Darkhold Castle. The location for a long time was secret but thanks to his new found success, he has now ambitions to form his own nation within the Sunset Mountains. 

This initiative proved successful that territories belong to the surrounding neighboring nations of Cormyr, Evereska, Elturgard and Najara where swallowed into the new Zhentarim nation of Kilswer. Thus the call has been placed for individuals to take up the fight and end this tyrants drive once and for all. Though the lands surrounding the Sunset have now become the prize of many beyond the affects nations, especially to you. You are vampires, who belong to an extensive family/coven that spans from Watersdeep all the way to the Unapproachable East. The issue however is the elders of your family are stretch thin and looking for a means to establish a central base of operations. It is not widely known but the nation of Cormyr is seeking to gain the lands and make something of a puppet state thereby expanding their own boarders and holdings. Establish contacts have secured you a spot as part of a special strike force that seeks to employee special mission and tactics to weaken the "Black Network" allowing Cormyr's main forces to storm the heart of this nation. Such a prospect is to tempting to pass up, for if successful you may have your own nation to lead. 

Style: RP mostly with combat naturally. Additionally trying to implement something akin to nation building like Pathfinder's Kingmaker.





So if up for 5e would this have interest?

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## Lioslaith

I'd say not what I was thinking but I'm certainly willing to play in it.  Obviously I'd prefer the higher level the better.  Looks like it would be fun!

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## Aleph Null

> I'd say not what I was thinking but I'm certainly willing to play in it.  Obviously I'd prefer the higher level the better.  Looks like it would be fun!


I'm also still interested, though I will have to read these more closely when deciding on build stuff cuz i just glanced over it to make sure i liked the idea (it is fine).

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## Lioslaith

Wonder if the holidays stalled this out or if weve just been abandoned?

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## Aleph Null

> Wonder if the holidays stalled this out or if weve just been abandoned?


Good question...we probably will have a bit of stall from the holiday i reckon

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## HeyHoWhatUpYo

I'm still confused as to what you want from this game. You said you want to be a stronger than normal vampire and then gave some adventure scenarios that don't really have anything to do with vampires. Like, you just want to play a vampire but that's not even a focus of the game? You just want to be an adventurers and being a vampire is an afterthought?

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## Lioslaith

> I'm still confused as to what you want from this game. You said you want to be a stronger than normal vampire and then gave some adventure scenarios that don't really have anything to do with vampires. Like, you just want to play a vampire but that's not even a focus of the game? You just want to be an adventurers and being a vampire is an afterthought?


Are you looking to pick it up and run it?  I had thought to leave the actual game its self open ended in case a DM had any ideas of their own.

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## Feralgeist

Hey Lioslaith! Long time no see. Ironic you should be pitching a vampire game when the last one we were in together my dude was a vampire. What about 3.5, everyone has vampire lord template but starts at level 1-5? The party has been in torpor for WHO knows how long and can only remember the bare basics of their class. As they level up it all starts coming back to them. Or something, I dunno. 

It's easy to do it non-gestalt if everyone has the same template, it could just be a regular vampire one and part of the game is to work around the disadvantages (there are ways in game to mitigate them) or we could start as vampire spawn looking to somehow overthrow our master so our powers can become fully fledged. I'm just spitballing. I'd be up for any sort of vampire game. 

By the by, I'm pretty sure Dracula is loosely based on Vlad Tsepish (or Vlad the Impaler) that hectic romanian monarch who decorated his lands with a field of impaled enemies and got rid of his homeless population by inviting them all into a big hall for a feast and then locking the doors and burning the place to the ground.

Edit: not that you asked, but I reckon celerity should be burning hit die recovery or hp for a haste equivalent, not a worse mix of expeditious retreat & jump. 

If there is gonna be a home-brew powers mechanic I reckon it'd be cool to be able to accrue negative temp hp points by spending on extra or empowered powers and you can recover them by feeding. You'd have access to the regular suite of abilities but if you wanna go plus ultra or give it some extra oomph you can at cost.


Double-edit: if no DM shows up I'll throw my hat into the ring to run it. Happy to customise it so all players are happy. If I did run it you guys would probably start in the underdark or a necropolis so facing the sun is an option you can prep for not an immediate hamstring. Organising where your coffins are kept and how they're brought along would be a thing. 
Do you have some enthralled or hired porters and moving is a big thing or do you use shrink item and wander where you will? Leaving em behind ain't wise.

Triple edit: rough pitch, having reread previous comments. 

Everyone starts as level 5-7 vampire spawn or full vampires under the thumb of a slaving necropolis regime. The party wants to eke out a home for free ranged cattle (people) who can live their lives protected by the clan and give homage with blood when needed. 
The blood is the life, as they say and in this world a vampires source of it is directly proportional to their power. Bigger clans and more powerful vampires need a bigger population to fuel their dark arts sustainably. 

Players will have the option of unlocking/seeking out vampiric powers/artifacts/ the next level of template by hunting down other old vamps and "liberating" their livestock. May gain other town bonuses or personal bonuses if they diversify their aims (like say freeing mindflayer stock farms, drow slaves or undead charnel processing pits) people from different places would bring different bonuses to the town and may give different bonuses from feeding regularly.

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## Metastachydium

> Hey Lioslaith! Long time no see. Ironic you should be pitching a vampire game when the last one we were in together my dude was a vampire. What about 3.5, everyone has vampire lord template but starts at level 1-5? The party has been in torpor for WHO knows how long and can only remember the bare basics of their class. As they level up it all starts coming back to them. Or something, I dunno. 
> 
> It's easy to do it non-gestalt if everyone has the same template, it could just be a regular vampire one and part of the game is to work around the disadvantages (there are ways in game to mitigate them) or we could start as vampire spawn looking to somehow overthrow our master so our powers can become fully fledged. I'm just spitballing. I'd be up for any sort of vampire game.


Yup. High LA templates are a non-issue if everyone has them, so long as some liberty is taken in matching enemy CRs to party ECL.




> By the by, I'm pretty sure Dracula is loosely based on Vlad Tsepish (or Vlad the Impaler) that hectic romanian monarch who decorated his lands with a field of impaled enemies and got rid of his homeless population by inviting them all into a big hall for a feast and then locking the doors and burning the place to the ground.


[DIGRESSION]That's quite certainly not the case. Stoker knew nothing about any of that and there pretty much isn't a single thing about Dracula besides his name that doesn't contradict that interpretation _hard_.[/DIGRESSION]




> Double-edit: if no DM shows up I'll throw my hat into the ring to run it. Happy to customise it so all players are happy. If I did run it you guys would probably start in the underdark or a necropolis so facing the sun is an option you can prep for not an immediate hamstring. Organising where your coffins are kept and how they're brought along would be a thing. 
> Do you have some enthralled or hired porters and moving is a big thing or do you use shrink item and wander where you will? Leaving em behind ain't wise.
> 
> Triple edit: rough pitch, having reread previous comments. 
> 
> Everyone starts as level 5-7 vampire spawn or full vampires under the thumb of a slaving necropolis regime. The party wants to eke out a home for free ranged cattle (people) who can live their lives protected by the clan and give homage with blood when needed. 
> The blood is the life, as they say and in this world a vampires source of it is directly proportional to their power. Bigger clans and more powerful vampires need a bigger population to fuel their dark arts sustainably. 
> 
> Players will have the option of unlocking/seeking out vampiric powers/artifacts/ the next level of template by hunting down other old vamps and "liberating" their livestock. May gain other town bonuses or personal bonuses if they diversify their aims (like say freeing mindflayer stock farms, drow slaves or undead charnel processing pits) people from different places would bring different bonuses to the town and may give different bonuses from feeding regularly.


Interesting & interested.

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## Lioslaith

> Hey Lioslaith! Long time no see. Ironic you should be pitching a vampire game when the last one we were in together my dude was a vampire. What about 3.5, everyone has vampire lord template but starts at level 1-5? The party has been in torpor for WHO knows how long and can only remember the bare basics of their class. As they level up it all starts coming back to them. Or something, I dunno. 
> 
> It's easy to do it non-gestalt if everyone has the same template, it could just be a regular vampire one and part of the game is to work around the disadvantages (there are ways in game to mitigate them) or we could start as vampire spawn looking to somehow overthrow our master so our powers can become fully fledged. I'm just spitballing. I'd be up for any sort of vampire game. 
> 
> By the by, I'm pretty sure Dracula is loosely based on Vlad Tsepish (or Vlad the Impaler) that hectic romanian monarch who decorated his lands with a field of impaled enemies and got rid of his homeless population by inviting them all into a big hall for a feast and then locking the doors and burning the place to the ground.
> 
> Edit: not that you asked, but I reckon celerity should be burning hit die recovery or hp for a haste equivalent, not a worse mix of expeditious retreat & jump. 
> 
> If there is gonna be a home-brew powers mechanic I reckon it'd be cool to be able to accrue negative temp hp points by spending on extra or empowered powers and you can recover them by feeding. You'd have access to the regular suite of abilities but if you wanna go plus ultra or give it some extra oomph you can at cost.
> ...


Hey there, yes, long time no see. 7 would be on the low end of where I was hoping it would start but hey its an offer right?  Its been so long since I played 3.5 Id probably need help. 😂 Would you be willing to hear a couple ideas on the coven/cattle thing?  And keep in mind, still looking for that (compared to the D&D vampires) overpowered movie style vampire type.

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## Aleph Null

I'll second (...third?) that motion, since indeed it's good to get moving on it and we can smooth/iron out the kinks as we go. 

I do like the rebellious coven idea, though I'd definitely want the full vampire start, where we then get those class levels on top (though I'm tempted to ask if we can take the evolved template or the like, it's more of a nice-to-have-the-option rather than an actual request ftm). This, after all, is a great place to bust out my definitely-not-Mika-from-Owari-no-Seraph edgelord vampire character idea who wants to "save" the weak normies who inhabit this world (by toppling hierarchies and increasing individual freedoms of course, because how else to do that)
I mean, other ideas exist, but yee, interested for sure

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## Metastachydium

> Hey there, yes, long time no see. 7 would be on the low end of where I was hoping it would start but hey itÂs an offer right?  ItÂs been so long since I played 3.5 IÂd probably need help. 😂


Worry not! The forum's choke full of friendly helpful 3.5 enthusiasts.




> And keep in mind, still looking for that (compared to the D&D vampires) overpowered movie style vampire type.


I'm still not quite sure what you mean by that. The BASELINE 3.5 vampire gets the following package:

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage.
Does not breathe, eat, or sleep.
d12s all the way down, regardless of class.
If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running water. (Amphibious is an LA +0 template, and loads of races hand out swim speeds for free as well.)
A +6 to natural armour.
Dominate Person _at-will_.
Energy Drain (2 negative levels per hit with natural attacks; granting 5 thp) plus a free natural attack to use it with.
Alternate Form (bat, dire bat, dire wolf) _at-will_ with long duration.
DR 10/silver and magic, cold and electricity resistance 10 plus fast healing 5.
Gaseous Form at-will, indefinite duration, perfect flight.
Spider Climb at-will.
+6 STR, +4 DEX, +2 INT and WIS, +4 CHA.
+8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.
Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes free of charge.
A 2h window for nigh-invulnerably fleeing to saftey when reduced to 0 hp under most circumstances.
Some flavourful ribbon abilities like Children of the Night.

They _strictly_ outclass _Underworld_, _VD_-verse and (if memory serves) _Blade_-franchise vampires in terms of power and they don't really have more or more severe weaknesses that cannot be bypassed effortlessly (see above at swim speed).

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## Aleph Null

> Worry not! The forum's choke full of friendly helpful 3.5 enthusiasts.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still not quite sure what you mean by that. The BASELINE 3.5 vampire gets the following package:
> 
> Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
> Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
> Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
> ...


Wait, i didnt even realize that you could just give yourself a swim speed to negate the water thing, that's nifty.
Also, vampires benefit hugely from the Wightblade feat (though IDK if dragon magazine will be allowed here) so there's also that. I had a meme build once (was a wight not a vampire but same idea) with a dual wielding warblade using a belt of battle and the time stands still maneuver along with haste and some other nonsense to go to town with that feat. This guy was a wight (ie only 1 level drain per hit) and I could still drain 20 levels from someone in a single turn with his full attack setup. Imagine that on a vampire! _Shudder_ The only downside was actually having to hit first, so if the enemy was a monk or something with stupid high AC I had trouble since my main source of to-hit amp was improved energy drain (which the DM of that game was foolish enough to let stack indefinitely, but anyway) so I actually had to land a few hits to get going. Also, enemies can be immune to energy drain, which sort of gimps that strategy if they are. Still haven't found a way to get around that immunity, even via epic feats, so it became a coinflip of "what are we actually fighting this session that isn't immune to drain so I can get my stacks going" lmao

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## Justanotherhero

> Double-edit: if no DM shows up I'll throw my hat into the ring to run it. Happy to customise it so all players are happy. If I did run it you guys would probably start in the underdark or a necropolis so facing the sun is an option you can prep for not an immediate hamstring. Organising where your coffins are kept and how they're brought along would be a thing. 
> Do you have some enthralled or hired porters and moving is a big thing or do you use shrink item and wander where you will? Leaving em behind ain't wise.
> 
> Triple edit: rough pitch, having reread previous comments. 
> 
> Everyone starts as level 5-7 vampire spawn or full vampires under the thumb of a slaving necropolis regime. The party wants to eke out a home for free ranged cattle (people) who can live their lives protected by the clan and give homage with blood when needed. 
> The blood is the life, as they say and in this world a vampires source of it is directly proportional to their power. Bigger clans and more powerful vampires need a bigger population to fuel their dark arts sustainably. 
> 
> Players will have the option of unlocking/seeking out vampiric powers/artifacts/ the next level of template by hunting down other old vamps and "liberating" their livestock. May gain other town bonuses or personal bonuses if they diversify their aims (like say freeing mindflayer stock farms, drow slaves or undead charnel processing pits) people from different places would bring different bonuses to the town and may give different bonuses from feeding regularly.


First of all thank you for offering! And second love the concept so far!

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## Aleph Null

Bweep 

So I suppose next step would be a 16?

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## Lioslaith

I'm thinking some sort of swordsage stealth build possibly.  Also have an idea if the template stacking thing is allowed.

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