# Forum > Play-by-Post Games > Message Board Games > Free Form Roleplaying >  DragonBallITP OOC VI: The Asylum for Omnipotent Nutcases

## Lord Raziere

This freeform game/universe is a spiritual successor to NarutoITP, BleachITP and RailITP games. It is an alternate continuity of the Dragon Ball universe created by Akira Toriyama that started out as "What if the Nameless Namekian never arrived on Earth?" and has since set on its own tracks. 

Specifically, the main events of the game take place around the time when Namek is undergoing its great disaster - Years 261 to 431 according to DB calendar; In real life terms, comparable from 1500s to 1700s. Rather than a Namekian arriving on Earth and becoming Kami's apprentive, we've had a motley crew of space aliens and time-travellers running afoul of the current Kami and several other things.

To wit, the game being set in the past means a number of things:

Majority of canon characters have not been born, and they're not intended to be major players in the game.Frieza has not been born yet, however his ancestors and the Arcosians rule most of the known universe.Planet Vegeta (still known as Plant) existed and was inhabited by the Tuffles, but has been destroyed by Hailing 500 years ahead of schedule. The Saiyan and Tuffle population was successfully evacuated.Saiyans exist, and are just becoming a spacefaring culture via working with the Tuffles.Earth's technology level is preindustrial, with some exceptions.Capsule Corporation and the Briefs family obviously don't exist, but if someone wants to play their spiritual (or actual) ancestors, feel free.King Yenma exists as does King Kai, and the afterlife is intended to be the same as in canon. Both have made onscreen appearances.Fortuneteller Baba exists and has made an appearance.Mr. Popo may or may not exist.Majin Buu, Dabura, Beerus, Kaioshin, etc. exist and some of the time-travelling characters have referred to them, but they've not made onscreen appearances and should remain in the background.Namekians exist, but are going through an extinction event. The equivalents Guru, Piccolo and Kami are supposed to be original player characters, if Namekians ever make an appearance. Piccolo and Kami's 'father', the nameless Namekian, is no longer nameless, now known as Trombone Jr. and played by Frozen.The first Budokai Tenkaichi (The Martial Arts World Tournament) has begun.Equestria from My Little Pony exists, but only as a single planet. It is not meant to play a significant role, as this is not a crossover, it was just transplanted into this universe as its own planet. Races from MLP are free to play, but run them by me first.The setting has officially been declared as taking place in Universe 13, which has split off from Universes 6 and 7 due to shenanigans. There are plans to introduce a Universe 14 far in the future.
And so on and so forth.

True to the source material's style, there are all sorts of wacky things. Like dinosaurs. And shapeshifters. And talking animals. Players are allowed to play as any of the colorful beings from Toriyama's 'verse. This includes everything from Sayajins to Frieza's species to Androids to other creatures inspired by mythology or science fiction, as long as you can justify them getting involved in the story somehow.

Similar to source material, the idea is also to make timeskips after some agreed-upon points, maybe even a few centuries after we've detailed the origin of Dragon Balls. Currently, a one-year timeskip is planned to happen after the current Dragon Balls have been gathered, after which at least some characters will leave to space to do combat with Frieza's ancestor. With some luck, and if player interest remains, we'll eventually make it to "modern day" and beyond.

Preliminary rules, stolen copied over from other Anime-inspired RPs:

*Spoiler: THE RULES*
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Rule the first, no godmodding. A far better explanation of godmodding than I can give is here.

Rule the second, please remember that we plan to have a far more directed plot than Nexus. Please run any major spanners in the works past guys on this thread first.

Rule the third, don't ruin anyone else's fun. I can't stress this enough.

Rule the fourth, have fun! (Failure to abide by this rule is subject to immediate banishment.  :Small Wink: )

*Spoiler: New and Improved (but Loose) Rules v.1.1!*
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 These "rules" are more loose guidelines that serve another FFRPG very well so we adopted them into this one, because they work.

*Consider asking to join in fights before jumping in.* Please respect that _not_ all plots might be open. Alternatively, if you yourself want to keep a fight cordoned off from other participants, say so in the OOC, at the beginning of your post, or both.*Talk major fights over with your opponent!* This is to keep arguments about who's the better fighter, who should win, blablablablabla, out of the OOC. Of course, talk these things over in PM, or some kind of IM service. While arguments might break out over said PM/IM ... it keeps it out of the OOC. Which is what we're trying to do here. (This part is currently under review.) On that note ...*Don't argue in the OOC!* They make the atmosphere oppressive, they make things less fun, and generally unpleasant and maybe even make the arguments larger than they need be. So, if you have a problem with someone, try to talk it out in PM or IM before using the OOC. That said ...*COMMUNICATE!* This is the most important rule. We have had issues in the past with people not communicating properly, leading to arguments and hurt feelings, and even several people leaving for good. So please communicate your plans, if they affect everyone else.

If you want to join, read up on the last few pages of the main IC thread, or even better, ask one of us here what's currently happening. We will figure out a good place to introduce your character. After that, make an introductory post telling where your characters are and what they're doing, and we'll continue from there.

*Spoiler: Current IC Threads*
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Main IC Thread: DBBITP: Down to Earth

DB Chibi Thread, a silly non-canon IC thread, inspired by RWBY Chibi and Miss Kobayashi's OO Maid, where nothing bad ever happens: Dragon Ball Chibi!!

*Spoiler: Past IC Threads*
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Once upon a time on Earth
Knights of Time and Space
Of Gods and Monsters
Shouldn't we be in Space by now
Fruits and Veggies
Foster's Home for Temporally-Displaced Friends
Here Comes The Son, It's Alright


*Spoiler: Past OOC Threads*
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Dragon Ball in the Playground [Discussion & Interest checking]
Dragon Ball in the Playground OOC I
Dragon Ball in the Playground OOC II
Dragon Ball in the Playground OOC III
Dragon Ball in the Playground OOC V


To avoid confusion, you can use location tags to indicate shifts in time and place. Like this:


This way, we can keep track where everyone is, since it's not economical to make a new thread for every little place.

To help keeping track of time, *here's a list of known planets and time it takes to travel between them:*

From Earth to Namek or Namek to Earth: 3 days with Shenron, 6 days with Arcosian Pod, 30 days with Namekian urchin
From Earth to Plant or Plant to Earth: 7 days with Shenron, 14 days with Arcosian pod, 70 days with a Namekian urchin

These are minimum travel times under optimal conditions. Travel may take longer if complications arise.

---

If you wish to add a character, race, or planet, PM me the info and I will add it. 

*Spoiler: Roster Key*
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*[KIA]* : Killed-in-action. This character has bit the dust, kicked the bucket, thrown in the towel, went to a better place, rests in pieces, yadda yadda. Their place is now in our fond memories and flashbacks.
*[MIA]* : Missing-in-action. A player vanished and left their character off-screen, but the character was too important to be retconned out. Referring to these characters (and wondering where they are) is allowed, but their fate is left undisclosed unless their player returns.
*[Retired]* : Retired. The player has, for one reason or another, left the game, retiring their character for good. Distinguished from MIA in that these characters have completed their character arc, and are now living out the rest of their lives offscreen, wherever that may be.
*[NPC]* : Non-player character. A character who can be controlled by anyone in need.
*[WIP]* : Work-in-progress. A character is incomplete and not ready to be played yet.
*(Currently played by X)* : informs if a character is being played by someone else than who made their registry post.
*Crossed-over:* This character has been retconned out. They are considered never to have existed in the story. Don't refer to them.

*Spoiler: Character Roster*
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*Spoiler: The Rebel Alliance*
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Android 22 Beryl Refera, ANOTHER hapless time traveller
Android 23 Jade Refera, a hapless time traveller
Masala Refera
Starlight Quiver, Agent of SMILE (from Equestria)
Vodkana, Princess of Destruction

*Spoiler: Earth First Coalition*
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Adam
Dr. Briefs
Lord Maxwell
Yankar, Yamcha's Descendant

*Spoiler: New Plant*
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Aspa, grumpy Saiyajin [Retired] [NPC]
Callin Flowers, a Tuffle inventor, former new Kami of Earth [Retired] [NPC]
Diamond, tag-along kid [Retired]
Kor Flower, Queen of Planet Plant [Retired] [NPC]

*Spoiler: Arcosian Empire*
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Apfel, Lord, Rebel Segmentum Governor
Asalute, Captain of Hailing's Royal Guard
Flake, Captain
Rime, Ambassador of the Arcosian Empire
Slushie, Duke, Hailing's Nephew

*Spoiler: Time Patrol*
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Agent R.Q.S.W., elite time patroller [MIA]
River Song
Rutaba, Saiyan Time Patroller [MIA]

*Spoiler: Villains*
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Hailing, Emperor of the Arcosian Empire
Lagerin, Lord of House Sarkandis [KIA]
Spoon, Chef and Prophet of Destruction [KIA]
Ulgo Al'taradassium
Young Thunder Sage, an evil, evil man [KIA?]

*Spoiler: Other*
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Artic, a Frost Demon Exile, Ieez's brother
Astralys, Daughter of the Daughter of the Sun
Cello
Katnep [WIP]
Luxana, activist demigod
Majin Pokasuu, lost acrobat [Retired]
Max Banders
Mekrashin Darok, Mekboy Freebooter
Oxyribo, bio-android from the future [Retired]
Pinappla, The Jade Fangirl
Shanakan, Challenge-seeking martial artist and fate mystic
Steam Punk
Sun Kai, beleagured celestial bureaucrat
Tarasai
Son of Katas, AKA the Nameless Namekian Trombone Jr.

*Spoiler: Retired*
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???, God With No Name [MIA]
Binky the Wonder Majin [MIA]
Brusal, Tuffle Warrior [Retired] [NPC]
Coladar [MIA]
Fujitora the Karate Tiger [MIA]
Ieez, a Frost Demon Exile, Artic's brother
Iris, a former slave [MIA]
Monseco of Romaine [Retired]
Que and Zoyl, twin serpents [Retired] [NPC]
Sasaki Ryuchi [Retired] [MIA]
Shippu [MIA]
Sho Sho [MIA]
Sir Martin Lucifer the Magnificent!!
Togari [MIA]
Vati Moris [Retired]
Yama no Rojin, Earth's Old God [KIA]
Yamuu [MIA]

*Spoiler: Retconned*
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Achill Satan, Lord, OUR HERO!
Chassis, wandering Majin
Pekoe, a shapeshifting trickster

*Spoiler: Outdated Character Sheets*
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Android 22, ANOTHER hapless time traveller
Android 23, a hapless time traveller
Luxana, activist demigod
Masala
Shanakan, Challenge-seeking martial artist and fate mystic
Vodkana, Princess of Destruction


*Spoiler: Canonical background characters who have made an appearance*
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Doctor Whooves (From My Little Pony) (Played by Hawkflight)
Dr. Briefs (Ancestor) (Played by Hawkflight)
Fortuneteller Baba
King Kai (Played by Frozen_Feet)
Lord Yenma (Played by Frozen_Feet)
Princess Celestia (From My Little Pony) (Played by Hawkflight)
Shenron
Supreme Kai of Time (aka Chronoa) (Played by Lord Raziere)
The No-Longer-Nameless Namekian (Played by Frozen_Feet)

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*Spoiler: List of Races*
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Human
Beastfolk
Monsterfolk
Transhuman
Saiyan
Tuffle
Namekian
Incirrian
Arcosian
Nyagato
Veru'nas
Talsaigans
Kaldasians 
Konatsians
Aszendi
Emme (Sentient Memes)
Ponies
Orks

*Spoiler: List of Planets*
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Earth
Cirra
Arcos
Cassius Prime
Donut
Talsaiga
Meal

---

*Spoiler: Empty Character template*
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*<Your Character's Name Here>*
*Spoiler*
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*Name:* Self-explanatory.
*Age:* Exact number or rough estimation.
*Gender:* Male, female, etc.
*Height:* Centimeters and/or feet and inches.
*Weight:* Kilograms and/or pounds.
*Species:* What kind of creature your character is?
*Station:* Your character's current lot in life.

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
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What does your character look, feel, smell and sound like?


*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
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How does your character think? What drives him and what kind of a fellow is he?


*History:*
*Spoiler*
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What has happened to your character before the game and made them who they are?


*Story So Far:*
*Spoiler*
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You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
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What is your character good or bad at? What special things can he do or knows?

These could include anything from martial arts to ki blasts to magic and shapeshifting abilities.


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
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Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.

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## Rater202

Might I request that the links to my characters be replaced with links to the updated profiles?

Will edit in link when I find it. Link

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## igordragonian

> Okay. at this point you have more ideas for her than me. do whatever you want, my idea was that Bondlight was just this ki-construct with limited programming but if you can somehow turn that into a character and make it your own go ahead.
> 
> will be on the lookout for it Ing.
> 
> and yea page 51, I've put off making a new thread for way too long.
> 
> New thread here


Well, slow process and stuff. I was actually thinking of her giving uncodioned loyalty yet, morale compass for Vodkana. And you know the old cliche, of artifical intelligence slowly adapting into an actual personality kind of thing.
The Refrea family interactions are fun to read, and also Oxy and Pokasuu. It might be too wierd, but it's not like I have an epic storyline involving around Bondlight. More about the loneliness of the most alien being- Vodkana. I was thinking a naive and adapting intelligence could tone Vodkana down...





> Oh by all means, Igor. Im building off of your original idea of The Emperor returning but being possessed, and needing to be stopped.
> 
> Ill PM you about an idea Raziere, not right now though because Im traveling.


Ah. I was under the assumption, that it would take away from the Emperor, so I decided to make up another empire for Rupert's storyline

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## Emperor Ing

Nah, it won't.

Also I never want to drive again. Driving for 1900 miles for three days is not fun.

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## igordragonian

Driving is terryfing.
I sort of had to be through therapy to force myself to drive when there are no other choices. (And at backwater reigon like mine, it happens too much to my liking)
When moved to other town, I drove three days back and forth, but what ever 1900 miles are, I probably have driven less.



___

Ah. Hmm.. ok. Then. I think I Pmed you more or less about Rupert, so how so you think will it work?

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## Rater202

Igor?

Could you maybe... _Not_ blow up the planet right this second?

I mean, Oxy and Poka are employing one of their crazy contingency plans and Poka is established to have a technique that can selectivly target and kill multible individuals.

What they're working on would take care of the Grey Ant juniors.

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## Lord Raziere

Yeah, I agree with Rater? please don't.  there is going to be important ending things happening.

like an Unkillable family hug. do you want their heartwarming hug to be in the remains of an asteroid field while Apfel and/or Pinappla dies of lack of air because a forcefield only holds so much air and there are no surviving spaceships because they were all destroyed as well? I don't think you do.

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## Emperor Ing

I came up with a way for Vodkana to NOT blow up the planet, fortunately.

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## igordragonian

Well, tactical speaking, considering the circrutamnces and Vodkana's knowledge this is the most rational plan: 
-we can't defeat Grey Ant fast. Or maybe not at all. And having the planet existing let Grey Ant complicated things even more
-Cell Jr  is another reason we can't waste time.
,-nothing we do seems to eveb scratch it. And it make sense- it's a bio android from the future, and it probably has ways to ecounter everything normal we have. We need an unorothodox method.
-It's fun.
-mortals surely already died. No reason to hold back, wishing back some people cost as much as wishing them all
-Do we really want those labs keep existing? Reaaally?
-And we- or the bioandorid care? For them it's like a gulag or something.

And in conclusion, if to use real example from irl, burning your cities, so your overwhelming enemy won't get advantage of it- worked quite well more then once and twice in my land.



Sooo, I think that to stop Vodkana you at least ICly, need to tell her to stop. She has no way to know there is a better way, and the R.A is out of time.




Edit: Ing's soluation is perfect

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## Sagetim

> Yeah, I agree with Rater? please don't.  there is going to be important ending things happening.
> 
> like an Unkillable family hug. do you want their heartwarming hug to be in the remains of an asteroid field while Apfel and/or Pinappla dies of lack of air because a forcefield only holds so much air and there are no surviving spaceships because they were all destroyed as well? I don't think you do.


I dunno about Apfel, but Max could keep himself and Pinappla alive by using creation to make oxygen molecules inside a force field. Hang out, play some cards, IT back to civilization when they're done.

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## Lord Raziere

Rater, real quick, how powerful is Rose Soleil as a transformation? how powerful would be too powerful for PCJ in terms of transformation? his base is Super Perfect Cell level by the way. he's trained for his power.

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## Rater202

Rose Solielis at this time a 50x Multiplier. Currently, in this form, Oxy is 3 times Super Perfect Cell in power.

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## Lord Raziere

> Rose Solielis at this time a 50x Multiplier. Currently, in this form, Oxy is 3 times Super Perfect Cell in power.


I see. thats good information to know. almost made him waaaaaay too powerful by mistake.

anything specific you want for this fight? I want to make it the best I can.

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## Rater202

Nothing in particular--Oxy doesn't even have to win.

It's just that the results of this fight may influence how Oxy behaves in the future.

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## Lord Raziere

> Nothing in particular--Oxy doesn't even have to win.
> 
> It's just that the results of this fight may influence how Oxy behaves in the future.


Hm.

Okay.

My original plan was for PCJ to have this ridiculous Trinity Gold form that would be a combination of Super Saiyan 1, 2 and Freeza' Final Evolution, but that would be _ridiculously_ overpowered for this. I overestimated Oxyribo.

I'll lower it down to Super Saiyan 1 or Kaio-Ken x20, x20-50 Super Perfect Cell should _reasonably_ overpowered. got to save the _ridiculously_ overpowered for Solitus. while technically more powerful than Oxyribo in raw power, it is a sign that Oxyribo surpassed him since he is using lesser non-divine forms at a higher power.

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## Rater202

I mean, I first established Oxy's current power level back at the end of the Ork invasion and referred to the same--when I first reintroduced him, he was using Kaiokenx20 o equal Super Perfct Cell.

As an SSJ derived from, Rose Soliel is a x50 multiplier over the base form, or 50(SPC/20)

Doing the math, that adds up to 2.5 zSuper Perfect Cells. The Zenkai Oxy got fighting Deatheye brought it up to a solid 3.

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## igordragonian

Guys/Dudes/Dudets, I wanted to ask if may I add Snap to the fray?
My Keldarian Oc. I think only Apfel met him ICly.

I really enjoyed roleplaying his fighting style. The only question if you are ok with it.

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## igordragonian

*Spoiler: Snap, The Former Greatest Assassin Of The Universe*
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*<Snap>*
*Spoiler*
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*Snap:* Self-explanatory.
*Age:* 40-ish?
*Gender:* N/A
*Height:* 1.99 M
*Weight:* 700 KG
*Species:*Keldarian
*Station:* Protector Of Yadrat, Ex Assassin.

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
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A tall and slim yet muscular keldarian in red shades. Nowdays, dressed in Yadratian outfit.


*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
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Guilt ridden by his gorey past, Snap dedicated himself to defend Yadrat. How ever,  he has great ambition for power and improvment, and enjoy battles and challenges.
Also struggling with his  grimm determinst outview of the world.





*History:*
*Spoiler*
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What has happened to your character before the game and made them who they are?


*Story So Far:*
*Spoiler*
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You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show

What is your character good or bad at? What special things can he do or knows?

These could include anything from martial arts to ki blasts to magic and shapeshifting abilities.


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.


[/QUOTE]

WIP

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## igordragonian

Ing-
On Lum V I assume you confused Apfel with Artic?

Also... mostly because of assasin No.2...
I assume Apfel has defeated the Assasin Guild at this point?

Edit- Also did the Verruninans iteracted directly with Jalo?
I had an idea to involve him here.
Maybe trying to assinate Apfel again, with anti ki shticks.

Sorry, you made me quite hyped.
^^'

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## Sagetim

For reference with the battlesuits:
-They provide the equivalent to a battlepower of 50,000 while worn and utilized (a far cry from the millions our characters are normally throwing around, but still a lot higher than your average person)

-They have an on board reactor that generates limitless energy, but has been specifically designed to meet the needs of the suit. If properly tinkered with, these limiters could be removed or disabled but:

-The on board mechanical components are already at their functional limit. They can't really be pushed further without breaking. 

-As mentioned in post, they are a grab bag of powered armor capabilities, built to effectively allow a normal human to go toe to toe with someone of up to 50k in power level. This includes inertial dampeners to keep the wearer from being pulped by combat at those speeds, and coincidentally makes them basically immune to falling damage. 

-While I might have overlooked features they should have, they'd be built with things that are reasonable for them to have to function as intended (like a comm system, intertial dampener, etc), but are specifically not equipped with unreasonable stuff like Tactical Oxygen Nukes or similar munitions that just begs to be used for a war crime.

-I'm not sure if they should be equipped with micro-hyperlight drives or not. I remember the men of metal were, and Max did recover their scrap, but I'll leave that to everyone else if they should actually be equipped with something that potent. The story purpose of the suits was to make the people wearing them not-helpless, but not-overpowered, so that they could do battle with the current threat. And if the suits each had their own hyperlight drive, then the players wouldn't be consolidating on the Shenron to go chase the threat.

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## Emperor Ing

Believe it or not, I actually had plans for the Verunas and the Arclight before Jalo, so its unlikely they recruited his asssistance, developing the technology independently.

And yes, Appel would have defeated the assassins guild

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## igordragonian

would it ok, if I have involved Jalo into the scene?
and well, the idea of shutting off 'magic' is quite common, I am actually surprised the cannon didn't had it yet.

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## Rater202

So, can I get a recap on who was given those watches?

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## Lord Raziere

> would it ok, if I have involved Jalo into the scene?
> and well, the idea of shutting off 'magic' is quite common, I am actually surprised the cannon didn't had it yet.


well you have to remember eastern mythology, because Dragon Ball runs on it:
Ki is a spark of divinity, inherit to all life mortal forms as vital and integral as a heart, or lungs or breath. To shut off ki is like saying your going to shut off breathing, because the body is holistically interconnected, so not having a ki in a universe where it exists is at best _unhealthy_ and at worst _kills you_. when people say they "don't" have ki, what they mean is that they have very little control over it- thus its diffuse and useless, as ki requires compressing and focusing its power to do anything.

that 5 PL? isn't because your _lacking_ in the _amount_ of ki you have. it just means that its thin as air. the difference between untrained ki and trained ki that is actually usable is like air and plasma. air is directionless, it sometimes be a storm and wreck things or wind or whatever, but its all random and without real focus. trained ki however is deadly, because its a focused laser. the fact that more particles can be detected within a laser per inch than air is because its all compressed and channeled to burst.

in wuxia and other martial arts there is no "anti magic" for martial arts, because again, thats like saying you shut off sword or fist. in that kind of world its not a mystical thing thats just added in or some form of electricity you can turn off the current, its your _breath_, thats why they breathe so often when doing it. because such ideas predate the idea of turning something on or off or the EMP. Toriyama didn't just pull this out of his hat, its how people have been thinking it works for thousands of years. thats why the closest you get to that sort of thing is poison or drugs to slow someone down because it all runs a mystical thing that runs on _biological_ concepts rather than _electric_ or _technological_ concepts.

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## igordragonian

> well you have to remember eastern mythology, because Dragon Ball runs on it:
> Ki is a spark of divinity, inherit to all life mortal forms as vital and integral as a heart, or lungs or breath. To shut off ki is like saying your going to shut off breathing, because the body is holistically interconnected, so not having a ki in a universe where it exists is at best _unhealthy_ and at worst _kills you_. when people say they "don't" have ki, what they mean is that they have very little control over it- thus its diffuse and useless, as ki requires compressing and focusing its power to do anything.
> 
> that 5 PL? isn't because your _lacking_ in the _amount_ of ki you have. it just means that its thin as air. the difference between untrained ki and trained ki that is actually usable is like air and plasma. air is directionless, it sometimes be a storm and wreck things or wind or whatever, but its all random and without real focus. trained ki however is deadly, because its a focused laser. the fact that more particles can be detected within a laser per inch than air is because its all compressed and channeled to burst.
> 
> in wuxia and other martial arts there is no "anti magic" for martial arts, because again, thats like saying you shut off sword or fist. in that kind of world its not a mystical thing thats just added in or some form of electricity you can turn off the current, its your _breath_, thats why they breathe so often when doing it. because such ideas predate the idea of turning something on or off or the EMP. Toriyama didn't just pull this out of his hat, its how people have been thinking it works for thousands of years. thats why the closest you get to that sort of thing is poison or drugs to slow someone down because it all runs a mystical thing that runs on _biological_ concepts rather than _electric_ or _technological_ concepts.


We have been through this.
Jalo had example of anti-ki life, and devolped it from there.
If no, then no. But this also means no Trombone Saga, which is fine, just want to know before hand.

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## Lord Raziere

> We have been through this.
> Jalo had example of anti-ki life, and devolped it from there.
> If no, then no. But this also means no Trombone Saga, which is fine, just want to know before hand.


No, its ok, its too late for me stop any of that now. please do Trombone Saga, don't let my opinion affect that.

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## igordragonian

> No, its ok, its too late for me stop any of that now. please do Trombone Saga, don't let my opinion affect that.


it's not like we are a giant group. If you think it doesn't make sense, then I understand. It is streching the limits.
And it's not too late, because it didn't even began.


(beside few foreshadowing encounters, which are very easy to dismiss, and even their aftermath...)

Trust me, for me it will be easier.

I think our little group is based on mutual agreement about stuff.

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## Lord Raziere

> it's not like we are a giant group. If you think it doesn't make sense, then I understand. It is streching the limits.
> And it's not too late, because it didn't even began.
> 
> 
> (beside few foreshadowing encounters, which are very easy to dismiss, and even their aftermath...)
> 
> Trust me, for me it will be easier.
> 
> I think our little group is based on mutual agreement about stuff.


look if your real concerned about it, I'd rather have a fun interesting villain than a completely consistent universe, and if your still concerned about after that, I can just come up with an explanation to to make sure it works or something. don't be so eager to ruin your own fun. that was just an opinion igor, don't let it run you over.

----------


## Sagetim

> So, can I get a recap on who was given those watches?


The people who showed up to the 'it's been 10 years, we need to be sociable or something' party at the Shining City, so the Refera's, Oxy, Diamond, Poka, Yankar, Apfel, Fries?, Vodkana, pretty much any player character that showed up.

----------


## igordragonian

> look if your real concerned about it, I'd rather have a fun interesting villain than a completely consistent universe, and if your still concerned about after that, I can just come up with an explanation to to make sure it works or something. don't be so eager to ruin your own fun. that was just an opinion igor, don't let it run you over.


It's not about running over anyone...
I'll try to talk and ignore my anxiety. I am trying to explain what the Cross Clan and Anti Ki all supposed to be about.

My first thought was- "What if Picollo really was a godless demon, who actually were scarier then anyone else?"
Zamasu gave me inspiration into a current direction, so "Anti-Christ" theme was added, and the element of rebellion against the current gods. 

I also wanted vampire Namekians- something more evil in jf's cores then for example Lord Slug.  And also, wanted a reason, why a clan with leader on Buu's scale leader were never mentioned in cannon- because they are *unspeakable* evil, and also undetectable, even to the greatest diviniation spells and abilities- as if they don't exist in this reality.

The Anti Ki thing is like... mmm.. Shadows from Exalted, or it's Underworld or the "Upside Down" in Stranger Things.
It's not really dead- or it's soooo dead, that it's behave as alive.

The White Namekians are something like Ghost Blooded/Abyssals of Exalted, and they work on turn the whole universe upside down. This is at least my thought process.

Jalo- and it seems the Veruniaans on parallel as well(maybe with some eldritch inspiration as well?) Scienctify the whole thing, the same way Bulma has scientified the magic energy of the dragon balls, but took a step further.

Of course I am trying to benefit from the extra softness of the sci fi elements of DB.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well yeah, I first made anti-ki as an attempt to make abyssals from exalted remember? back when I was more stupid and desperate to get an exalted game so I thought "why not just bring Exalted like concepts into Dragon Ball?"

and thus was born Solitus, Shanakan the seer, Luxana, Kurumo, necrotic ki, Tailripper,  and my interpretation of Makai and so on. I remember.

my opinion just has nothing to do with actual game decisions, particularly ones I made years ago and now used by other people for their own ideas of how to make a game good. especially since the onlyt hing I ever intended to use by making necrotic ki was an anti _super form_ technique rather than being anti-PL in general. my thought process at the time was "hey I want to play Abyssals but no one wants to play Exalted, lets make this weird dragon ball version since no one really cares its Dragon Ball the setting is soft sci-fi as it gets, and why not crib a little from anima beyond fantasy's Nemesis and give it some anti-super form technique while making necrotic ki itself has no super forms so that it equals out and gives necrotic ki something unique to it to deal with the constant super forms going up. I'm sure if I introduce it slowly nothing will go wrong and I'll figure out the specifics eventually"

then you and  Ing just made it straight up anti-magic entirely and now I'm slapping myself in the face for allowing any way to take away my cool ki-based fights. its not the anti-ki itself that I have a problem with, its the effects.

but its too late now. the anti-ki and its effect are too much apart of this continuity, can't retcon it or anything now. might as well play it out and make my own counter-response to it in the form of this:

*Spoiler: Batman Cosplay*
Show


A powerful cosplay, one that potentially make the user one of the greatest heroes of all time. However it is a difficult Cosplay to wield well- you are granted all the skills, knowledge and equipment in the world, but its up the wearer of the cosplay to use it all properly as its not a cosplay one can use to simply beat people up. It requires planning, strategy, tactics, the ability to follow Batman's own high standards and his code, and a will to endure Batman's perfectionist obsessive mindset. And if your not mentally strong enough, the Cosplay can consume who you are into itself. 

Weaknesses:
-Superman or Bane Cosplay
-Attractive People
-Needing to Kill

Rules of Batman:
The user of this cosplay cannot use guns, cannot kill and cannot use ki or any form of magic. Any use of ki, magic or guns causes the Cosplay to stop working temporarily. Any breaking of the shall not kill rule can cause the cosplay to stop working for you forever or make the user go crazy and start killing everyone they find evil endlessly.

No Magic, No Problem:
Nothing this Cosplay does detects as magic, ki, psychic abilities, divine energy or any other possible supernatural force, nor anything that cancels any of that out works on this. Why? Because Batman.

Batsy's Broken Brain:
The toll Batman's one man crusade against evil takes upon his mind is high, and the weight of his legacy can be crushing upon those who don the mantle. Staying the cosplay for too long can make one obsessively perfectionist, unsociable, incredibly paranoid, obsessed with fighting crime to the exclusion of all else, feeling a compulsion to memorize random things just in case they might need to know them,
bouts of trying to establish pan-surveillance police states to keep watch on everyone, a desire to strike fear into the hearts of criminals, and most terrifying of all the potential death of one's previous identity to the point that their real name becomes The Batman/The Batwoman. and their former identity nothing but a mask over the superhero they have become. Wear with caution

All These Wonderful Toys:
The Batman has a gadget for anything. The user automatically has whatever equipment they need to respond to the situation as if they conjured them. However the person must know which device to use to properly make use of it at the time.

Training Unlimited:
The Batman has learned all things in his pursuit of justice. The user has access to all the knowledge and training of the world, able to pull out any skill when needed. Holding so much information within one's mind is taxing, and takes willpower to keep it all in their head and quick thinking to access the right information in time. 

Batarang:
The user has a seemingly endlessly supply of batarangs capable of various effects and can throw them  expertly.

Grappling Hook:
Always has a one handy to swing from place to place or other more creative applications.

Bat-Stealth:
Is so good at being stealthy and undetectable, that the user can vanish entirely even if the person turns away for even a second and remain undetected from seemingly anything. 

Bat Stoicism:
The user is made stoic and unyielding in the face of great peril, crime and injustice, and almost nothing can shake them.

Peak Human Performance:
The user's body acts as if they are human at peak athletic performance without ki, from strength to reflexes to health to the point of evading bullets. In DB, this is being as strong as Hercule. 

Master of Disguise:
Batman is so good at infiltration that he can disguise himself and act like anyone perfectly. However this can be even more stressful on one's mind as they have to juggle being themselves, the Batman and the person they impersonating all at the same time. 

Batsuit Features:
The Cosplay is Bulletproof, Fireproof, has various visions in its visor including X-ray vision, thermal vision, ultraviolet vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, detective mode, internal radio, computer and various other features.

Superstitious and Cowardly Lot:
The Cosplay's appearance naturally strikes fear into the hearts of evil and criminals, as well makes them believe strange things about the user that they can use to their advantage.

Nothing Mere About This Mortal:
Another psychological effect is making people underestimate the user for being an ordinary person, or having no ki or magic or anything and the cosplay is fact empowered when someone exclaims they have no powers, what can they possibly do? or something along those lines so that they can pull off the seemingly impossible, in some cases entering an Ultra-Instinct: Batman mode to pull off what they do.

Ultimate Technique: Just As Planned
The ultimate ability of any Batman is the ability to plan, analyze his opponent and come up with a way to exploit their weaknesses. With this technique they reveal that they had a plan to defeat their foe all along and that it has finally come to fruition. This technique must connect to earlier actions they have done and cannot be used to pull actions out of nowhere to win-there must be some sort of set up for this technique to play off of.

----------


## igordragonian

Well, hmmm.. I actually have planned a soluation for this at Trombone Saga, but it will require to investigate and study the path which Trombone took.
Spiritual Journey-ish thing. 

Again, I am sorry, but I do hope you will enjoy this.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Ideally, this arc should make anti-ki a minimal factor in future arcs. We can't put that genie back in the bottle, of course, and will probably be an element in future story arcs, but after dealing with the technology at its logical conclusion, and already knowing how it works and how to deal with it, will make it much easier to combat.

Don't worry, my future arcs won't have anti-ki play any significant roles (or...any role, for that matter though that's subject to change.)

Also, Beryl's monologue made me happy for what I have planned.

----------


## igordragonian

Also, I want to note I want spam the use of it.
The Cross Clan and their allies have many other shengians to exploit.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay.

Just don't expect Yankar to entirely play ball with the anti-ki business though- he is the type whose reaction to that WILL be "Screw you, I'll just train to power up even when my ki is "nulled"." and just treat it as just another limit to break and succeed at least to some extent because he is just that masterful at using ki and doesn't know how to use anything else. To him, fancy tech is the same as talent: cheap and overcome by pure skill and obsessive dedication. wouldn't give that to anyone else though, he is exceptional in that manner. I mean we're talking about someone who constantly already suppresses his true power with weights and holding back, he is technically USED to breaking that suppression with his daily training.  
(Mostly because in my mind this is how I'd imagine someone like Goku or Jiren would solve the ki-null problem: they're such fighting super geniuses that they overcome it by breaking the limit put upon them rather than working around it, because they've done that their entire lives. keep in mind THIS IS GOKU AND JIREN. the two greatest known ki fighters in the Universes, I doubt lesser fighters could do the same. Jade certainly can't.

also ki null probably wouldn't work on Angels, because I don't think such a thing would be _allowed_ to work them for some mystical divine reason, but thats a different thing, they're not really protagonist/PC material to begin with.)

not that it matters to the current arc- he is currently training on Keldas, trying to achieve a different impossible thing entirely, and the Veru'nas are of no concern to him.

----------


## igordragonian

Actually this is exactly the sort of thing I am expecting.
Remember-
"It's over 9,000!" It's a trope.

It's exactly what make DB fun. All this over the topness. Usually my way is GMing is usually "yes. You can. Sound cool"
And at worst. "Sound cool. I need to think how to make it work."

----------


## Sagetim

Oh, Diamond can absorb and integrate technology, right? If I'm remembering that right, then he'd probably have an easy time absorbing the battlesuit/watch thing that Max has handed out to everyone. A lot of the components would be similar to starship tech: shields, laser cannon, inertial dampener, flight system, etc. While none of it is particularly common in the rest of the galaxy (I don't know if any of the ships within the Arcosian Empire even had shield technology, or like, combat capable shields), the parts of it that would stand out most as odd duck tech would be the reactor that powers it (based on Max's dimensional reactor) and the watch storage function (based on capsule corp's capsule tech).

----------


## Rater202

> Oh, Diamond can absorb and integrate technology, right? If I'm remembering that right, then he'd probably have an easy time absorbing the battlesuit/watch thing that Max has handed out to everyone. A lot of the components would be similar to starship tech: shields, laser cannon, inertial dampener, flight system, etc. While none of it is particularly common in the rest of the galaxy (I don't know if any of the ships within the Arcosian Empire even had shield technology, or like, combat capable shields), the parts of it that would stand out most as odd duck tech would be the reactor that powers it (based on Max's dimensional reactor) and the watch storage function (based on capsule corp's capsule tech).


Diamond's abillity to grow up is derived from a Machine Mutant--Giru's race, from GT.

He basically Super 17'nd himself.

As Machine Mutants have the abillity to absorb metal and technology into themselves to fuel themselves, increase their power, and give themselves new abillities.

Examples include Giru gaining the abillit y to sense the Dragon Balls after absorbing the Dragon Radar(and being able toturn into a dragon radar,) Rildo upgrading himself first by absorbing the remains of his dead minions and then a frackload of metal, Hell Fighter 17 merging with regular17, and in Dragon Ball Heroes Super 17 being able to absorb on seperate occasions 16 and Perfect Cell and later 18.

Diamond can thus grow infintly as long as he has acess to metal or technology.

Diamond doesn't do anything by halves.

Diamond is based on a character whose response to his traumaic chidldhoodwas to build lots and lots of guns and keep them in every room of his house, one under his matress, and one on him at all times. Diamond is not particularly sane.

----------


## igordragonian

Wait Crystal Firefly on the Shenron? Wbat are we aiming to.do right now? I am confused.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Wait Crystal Firefly on the Shenron? Wbat are we aiming to.do right now? I am confused.


I assume wait until Ing declares the Verun'nas ship repaired then we do the thing with them. so until then, train, have conversations and what not. try to have a bit of breather from the rollercoaster over 9000 shenanigans that my sagas usually involve.

the Unkillables are just here because it was the closest ship and they want off Lun-V.  this is includes Firefly.

----------


## igordragonian

ehhhh so Crystal Firefly is on our ok book now? just want to make sure I follow

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ehhhh so Crystal Firefly is on our ok book now? just want to make sure I follow


when was she not? you never fought her.

----------


## igordragonian

No, but other did, and you also said you planned her to be mid finale boss...

mmmmmmmmmmmm,, ok, fine. It seems I haven't missed anything that would make my post too stupid.

----------


## igordragonian

Ah. Raziere, how much training does the cosplay style reqire?

Mostly imagined Vodkana cosplaying as Sanji.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Ah. Raziere, how much training does the cosplay style reqire?
> 
> Mostly imagined Vodkana cosplaying as Sanji.


Depends on what you want to cosplay, how many things you want to cosplay and so on. Referential Cosplay style is kind of one of those martial arts schools that has the potential to spawn numerous schools and subschools within it, developing specific branches and variations upon the same basic concepts much like some real life martial arts did.

so I guess for one cosplay....I don't know, never really thought about it, but if Pinappla is any indication, the style is relatively quick to pick up since technically only a couple days have passed in universe since her introduction. 

its mastering the numerous intricacies of various cosplays knowing how to use a lot of them that takes years. its like a weapon: there is the basics of using it to not harm yourself with it and kill other dudes that most people learn and make do with in a short amount of time, and then there is a bunch of advanced intricate tactical stuff that only ever comes up when two swordmasters duel in highly specific circumstances on a fair playing field, which almost never happens because the world is unfair.

as for the specific cosplay itself, I've only ever watched the first half of One Piece once and disliked every minute of it (long story short: I had/have a blog about ranting about it years ago, only go find it if you want to throw away your sanity reading some hate a series you like, lets focus on you, no sorries about bothering me please, its old news, I'm over it.) but from what I can remember Sanji does seem a good choice for her, would enhance her cooking abilities and give her powerful kick based attacks, and even comes with built in weaknesses and limitations like not using your hands for combat and not harming women. so go ahead, it seems like a good choice and I'm happy that you made it since it makes sense for her.

----------


## igordragonian

I enjoy discussinv animes, and not afraid hate rant.
Well, if you have watched the whole half while hating it, it's impressive.

Mmmm.. just didn't wanted to step of anyone's toes.

----------


## Rater202

Gonna take me a bit o formulate a response. Schoolwork and Kingdom Hearts are both eating into my free time.

----------


## Emperor Ing

So I just had an idea to troll Perfect Cell Junior using the laws of physics.

Hyper-light drives work by increasing the speed of light in a localized area. Otherwise they do not alter causality or relativity. Ships simply move at 80-90% the speed of light, after it's been altered to 1,000,000x. Making the time-dilating effects that occur, as your speed increases to 1 c, relatively negligible. However if Perfect Cell Junior were to be voluntarily transported to New Plant, using ships whose technology he almost certainly doesn't understand, being from a different universe and all, and the ship were to be traveling at 99.99~% the speed of light, with the hyper-light field increased to only around 10x rather than hundreds of thousands, well, for Perfect Cell Junior, the trip will feel as though it took a few minutes.

In real space, it will take them _a week._ Potentially even longer.

I can imagine someone doing this if they can get Perfect Cell Junior to promise to cause no harm to their homeworld.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So I just had an idea to troll Perfect Cell Junior using the laws of physics.
> 
> Hyper-light drives work by increasing the speed of light in a localized area. Otherwise they do not alter causality or relativity. Ships simply move at 80-90% the speed of light, after it's been altered to 1,000,000x. Making the time-dilating effects that occur, as your speed increases to 1 c, relatively negligible. However if Perfect Cell Junior were to be voluntarily transported to New Plant, using ships whose technology he almost certainly doesn't understand, being from a different universe and all, and the ship were to be traveling at 99.99~% the speed of light, with the hyper-light field increased to only around 10x rather than hundreds of thousands, well, for Perfect Cell Junior, the trip will feel as though it took a few minutes.
> 
> In real space, it will take them _a week._ Potentially even longer.
> 
> I can imagine someone doing this if they can get Perfect Cell Junior to promise to cause no harm to their homeworld.


Hm.

that might be easier than you think

remember, Cell is the kind of guy who tells Vegeta to hit him as hard as he can, then go on live television to tell the world he will be hosting a tournament. there are rules to how he works, and to a certain extent everything that he does follows those rules. he goals are acquire Keldasian and Tuffle DNA, because hey increased intelligence and eternal battle Improvement thats better than zenkai has got to have SOME use for making him a better battler, right? so he really isn't after the races themselves, he is after their DNA and just has no qualms about absorbing them to do that. 

like to me, Cell to some extent truly thinks he is an honorable fighter. he after all thinks he is perfect, he doesn't NEED to trick people or use poison or whatever. sure he convinced Vegeta to let him absorb 18 but to his mind I don't think he really considers that trickery- just exploiting another fighters flaw to let him gain an advantage, he even tells Vegeta that he would crush him if he get the power up and Vegeta allows him to do that.

so to me its perfectly plausible he'd do something like that. sure there is a Freeza part of him thats a sore loser and probably start blowing up planets out of spite or something, but the fact remains that when he is secure he thinks he is an honorable but arrogant martial artist just like all the rest and that blowing up planets is just the high stakes game he plays as if he is some space martial artist version of Saw or something.  

point is, his internal logic works with that.

----------


## igordragonian

are you ok with me roleplaying Dishanna or Spoon, or these scenes are unroleplayable?
I am fine both ways.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> are you ok with me roleplaying Dishanna or Spoon, or these scenes are unroleplayable?
> I am fine both ways.


Sure, go ahead. these scenes are just to like show that Solitus isn't doing nothing even if he isn't spending his time wisely, but this will set up various divine weapons he can use to like make a fight against his forces more exciting. this is literally the divine arsenal of Heaven, there has got to something in here that can help him.

----------


## Sagetim

And now that they're heading to the time chamber, Max has the opportunity to answer oxy's question of "You did What to the Earth?"

----------


## Rater202

You skipped over a whole bunch of stuff--so far all Oxy's done is offer and hand to Fries so he can get a ride back to the rest of the group.

He hasn't actually gone back yet.

----------


## Sagetim

oh? Yeah, I'll edit my post then. I felt like I was probably skipping something, but figured if I was it'd get pointed out here. And it did. So I'll edit.

edit: Oh, I see what I did there. I misread his talking as telepathy.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Also Igor, how did Snap get on the Arclight? It's currently hiding in a heavily populated star-system an indeterminate number of light-years away.

----------


## igordragonian

I have built it up for some posts, I just assumed Apfel didn't wanted to show he recognize Snap.
He jumped from the planet to the Veruniaan ship before it teleported.
Even refrences video of how Saitama jumped from the moon to earth.

We can ban that, if you preffer not to involve Snap there.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Rater, i'm pretty sure that the meeting with Kurumo is tomorrow, ingame, not two days.

----------


## igordragonian

> I have built it up for some posts, I just assumed Apfel didn't wanted to show he recognize Snap.
> He jumped from the planet to the Veruniaan ship before it teleported.
> Even refrences video of how Saitama jumped from the moon to earth.
> 
> We can ban that, if you preffer not to involve Snap there.


Ing sama? just want to wanted something to do with Snap, that all

----------


## Rater202

> Rater, i'm pretty sure that the meeting with Kurumo is tomorrow, ingame, not two days.


I did say less than two days.

I'm still not 100% certain what's going on at this point. I just know that Oxy's 100% sure that once he leaves the chamber he won't get a second chance to get backin.

Also, suddenly running into someone who dwarfs his power significantly may have shaken his confidence in being able to murder Kurumo and Solitus.

----------


## igordragonian

> I have built it up for some posts, I just assumed Apfel didn't wanted to show he recognize Snap.
> He jumped from the planet to the Veruniaan ship before it teleported.
> Even refrences video of how Saitama jumped from the moon to earth.
> 
> We can ban that, if you preffer not to involve Snap there.


Ing Sama? Just let me know

----------


## Emperor Ing

> Ing sama? just want to wanted something to do with Snap, that all


Apologies for not responding, but sometimes i'm not sure how to respond. I don't believe Snap would have been able to teleport onto the ship.

----------


## Lord Raziere

So, Ing, where are we going with this? because it doesn't seem like anything is happening? should I be trying to actively infiltrate the Veru'nas ship rather than wait for their challenge?

----------


## Rater202

Personally, I'm waiting for either a response to my last post or directions leading me to a response I may have missed.

Or, alternatively, just a time skip to when whoever's willing to go into the Chamber with Oxy is on Earth with him.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Personally, I'm waiting for either a response to my last post or directions leading me to a response I may have missed.
> 
> Or, alternatively, just a time skip to when whoever's willing to go into the Chamber with Oxy is on Earth with him.


Okay.

none of the Unkillables are doing anything.....so take your pick of which one you want to go in with you. (I guess the shows rules are that only two should be in there for some reason, but I don't know why they don't just go in in groups aside from needing some people to hold off the big baddie for a while, you probably know better than me why that is, whether you want to ignore the two rule and which Unkillable(s) you'd want.)

----------


## Rater202

The rule of two is becuase the Chamber can onyl make enough food to sustain two people(and there's only two beds.)

Poka can conjure infinte food, bypassing this limitation.

Maxwell and Freis both offered to enter the chamber as well, and I'm not sure making the unkillable is stronger is wise atthis point in time.

----------


## igordragonian

I guess, that if allowed, Vodkana will join.
Oocly, I have nothing in mind beside that.

----------


## Sagetim

Hey, sorry for not posting recently. I've been busy, and then sick. 

Max, Fries, Yankar and I can't remember his name (Asalute?) went into the time chamber to prep for the Hailing fight, didn't they? In any case, the Arcosian empire left some extra equipment in there as far as I know, so it's safe to assume there's more than just two beds in there, and Max has conjured a food supply before. 

So time skipping to entering the time chamber for Max, Oxy, and whoever else is going in with them makes sense to me. Also, Max would probably try to get both Poka and Masala in there, so that between him and Poka they could help Masala work through her inner turmoil in a safe-for-others location.

----------


## Rater202

I'm pretty sure that the Time Chamber goes after the meeting with Koroma.

I mean, Oxy said as much before the time skip--Korumo before chamber because he knows that once he comes out he won't get a chance to go back in.

I also assumed it would go after in my IC post--an Oxy that's strong enough to defeat PCJ* is an Oxy who isn't going to bother with negotiations and is just gonna try and kill Kurumo and Solitus.

*which would logically take more than less than a year of training considering the vast gulf between them and how long it took Oxy to get this strong.

----------


## Sagetim

Alright, then I'll edit my post to reflect that.

----------


## igordragonian

Do you preffer Snap get caught so we could time skip?
Also.. who is coming to Kuromo's meeting?

----------


## igordragonian

Mmmm two things. After readkng again abour chakra colors, are you ok with retconing Vodkana's aura to be orange?


And Raziere- Dishanna told to Kuromo, that she fear that her guilt toward Vodkana will break her enlightment.
So she want to be a damsel in distress ajd avoud Vodkana's accusations.

So saying she voulntered.. kind of go against it. Which is fine, I guess. Just want to make sure this was IC decision, rather forgetting conversatiin among side characters long time irl ago

----------


## Lord Raziere

well Kurumo doesn't really care about individual people's feelings and all he knows is that Dishana came back for some reason, but I did in fact forget that, so.....watsonian and doylist explanations both make sense here.

and sure, orange aura, its purely cosmetic, so go with it if you want to. I don't think its outside possibility for peoples auras to just naturally change over time.

----------


## igordragonian

Ok. Things will escalte faster then I have planned for Vodkana and Dishanna...
Mmmm...


Oh.
I have foreshadowed it before (it's actually part of the Trombone Mythos)
But I wanted to get an Ok for the idea of Divine Censors. (Yes. Exalted inspired)
Which control what can and can't be known in the universe.
(And Apfel has killed one of them)

----------


## igordragonian

Ing- To cancel the whole Snap's heist thing? If you unintrested tell me, and I'll wrap it.

Raziere-
I know that you are probably overwhelmed (and I did enjoyed Solitus's story)
But.. Vodkana and Tarasai?
Unless you want them to join the scene with Kuromo to make things less overwhelming.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah those were a bit long, probably going to get around to Vodkana and Tarasai next post. The whole post as a bit of a focus to demonstrate the contrast between Solitus and Kurumo- Kurumo at the end of the day is someone with actual pain and suffering behind him who is truly willing to die for his cause and Solitus at the end of the day is someone who has never experienced tragedy at all and is completely out for his own ego. The thing with Solituses story was to nail it being completely understandable that he was once a hero, completely understandable that he'd end up this way- without making him sympathetic in the slightest. 

one could say that Oxyribo's victory over him would ruin it with a failure, but apart of Solitus's mindset is how he defines failure and success. while a perfectionist, he never defines anything he does as a failure. While undeniably egomaniacal, he truly does have a drive to succeed, positive attitude and some form of work ethic to make it happen- its just he is a leader now, you'll probably never see him working on a skill and even if you did, he has so much natural talent that it'd be like one of those short training montages except the montage doesn't happen but he masters it so fast a montage might as well have happened for all the time it took. sure he'd be a master of this or that but he wouldn't really grow or be challenged from the experience.

mostly because Solitus is every showy invincible hero and mary sue trope combined into one shiny golden villain and put into a world with actual people. His omni-mastery trait is probably just some mythical power he has because of his own unique legend supplemented with ancient memory techniques rather than anything that can be explained biologically.

----------


## igordragonian

Fair enough.
I'll reply with Dishanna for now, then.

----------


## igordragonian

Well, we probably have looooot of time before we get to Trombone, but after reading the manga, I must say, that if you will find similiraties between the villian of the current arc and Trombone- I devolped his theme of abilities the moment I made up the Cross Clan. Just sayyyying.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Well, we probably have looooot of time before we get to Trombone, but after reading the manga, I must say, that if you will find similiraties between the villian of the current arc and Trombone- I devolped his theme of abilities the moment I made up the Cross Clan. Just sayyyying.


I haven't read the manga and don't ever plan on doing so, so I don't care.

I do think I have some idea on what direction I want Masala to go now: she is a regenerator like bio-androids so she has the same tactical advantage in not having to worry about defense so she can focus on offensive power. so I'm imagining Masala charging in with a storm of cosplay weapons wielded in multiple arms in a furious storm of attacks with regard or care for her safety because she doesn't need to.

----------


## igordragonian

Well, it will be intresting to see againt Buu. (Which I am planning on using, and I think you wanted to see Masala Vs Buu)
Also, I'll work on recap on the Assasian Guild Arc of Apfel, since we probably will never actually roleplay it, and there are some ideas that might he relevant to the large scheme of things.


Btw.. is Hawk still with us?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Btw.. is Hawk still with us?


I messaged them recently and it seems they want to be here but real life stuff isn't giving them the time. so. nothing we can do about it.

----------


## igordragonian

(Nothing move for a long while then I check*
Omg...
Battle against Solitus already?
What about Beryl?
Am I too latem
Dammit. Ksu. Ksu. Ksu.


Sigh.
I hope at least it's not too.late..

----------


## Lord Raziere

> (Nothing move for a long while then I check*
> Omg...
> Battle against Solitus already?
> What about Beryl?
> Am I too latem
> Dammit. Ksu. Ksu. Ksu.
> 
> 
> Sigh.
> I hope at least it's not too.late..


I wouldn't say its a Final Battle.

Its more one of those "Mid Story" Battles where something big is on the line, but you don't know what the outcome of it is. whats at stake is the new Dragon Balls Lagerin is making. how this battle results might determine how the Final battle goes though!

----------


## igordragonian

Maybe I care about too much characters, but
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-The-Son/page8
I think from  this page, it seems Blizzan and Tsarbone left together.
Maybe Blizzan killed him somehow, or something, just want to close the story thread.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Maybe I care about too much characters, but
> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-The-Son/page8
> I think from  this page, it seems Blizzan and Tsarbone left together.
> Maybe Blizzan killed him somehow, or something, just want to close the story thread.


Nah, he wouldn't kill him for that. He is too busy reading. if they left together, they left together. Tsarbone can do whatever, Blizzan is just going to read until he reaches narrative demon enlightenment

----------


## Rater202

So Oxy's just gonna keep charging for the time being so don't let me hold you up.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So Oxy's just gonna keep charging for the time being so don't let me hold you up.


oh okay, open invitation to make the situation more complex and full of variables until you fire, got it.

----------


## Emperor Ing

I failed to mention that Apfel asked Kurumo to look into the Arclight's fate to set something up, so i'll have to ret-con something you posted, Raz. My resistance to conveying that previously was because I didn't want to make any reveals until Kurumo had already complied with Apfel's request.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay. I'll accept that, you have your reasons.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Also, an idea for punishing Solitus? Lock him within his own mind. Some kind of divine lotus-eater machine that lets him live his delusion of a perfect universe (or at least BUILDING a perfect universe.) Something he will eventually succeed at, and he will eventually realize himself being all that exists is boring as hell. Alternatively he's so deluded, he'll actually love it. Either way, he's out of the Universe's hair.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Also, an idea for punishing Solitus? Lock him within his own mind. Some kind of divine lotus-eater machine that lets him live his delusion of a perfect universe (or at least BUILDING a perfect universe.) Something he will eventually succeed at, and he will eventually realize himself being all that exists is boring as hell. Alternatively he's so deluded, he'll actually love it. Either way, he's out of the Universe's hair.


Hm. No.

already did something like that with Perfect Cell Junior, and I don't like repeating things. I have something...else in mind. for you see, in my mind, the only real difference between someone like Cell Junior and Solitus, is that Cell Junior is an evil egomaniac who realized he never wanted to be all that exists- he just wants to be the center of attention, he is an egomaniac who for once, knows what egomaniacs want. If Solitus gets punished that way, he becomes either a Second Perfect Senior just in this timeline, or a Second Perfect Cell Junior in a different body.

No, my idea for his punishment is something far more simple and terrifying. its an answer to a simple question: What is an egomaniac's hell?

----------


## Rater202

Is it having their soul-brain turned to paste so they lose all sense of self?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Is it having their soul-brain turned to paste so they lose all sense of self?


That is an acceptable outcome.

The answer I had is just lead to being drained of all but 5 of his PL then thrown into a void he cannot escape, to be alone for all eternity. because in my mind, an egomaniacs hell is no one being around to behold them. to egomania, hell is "no people". because they inherently need other people to compare themselves to then proclaim that they are better than.

----------


## igordragonian

Well, if we up to eternal torture, rather then simply destroy him, then maybe the Magic Mirror can be reforged, and Solitus can be sealed there, and be able to see the world, but Vodkana's nightmare ability,make it that everyone mock him forever.

But villians like him, bound to escape someday, because they are too cool to not be heard from again. So in Vodkana's mind, if someone should get some nice Hakai, it's Soli

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Well, if we up to eternal torture, rather then simply destroy him, then maybe the Magic Mirror can be reforged, and Solitus can be sealed there, and be able to see the world, but Vodkana's nightmare ability,make it that everyone mock him forever.
> 
> But villians like him, bound to escape someday, because they are too cool to not be heard from again. So in Vodkana's mind, if someone should get some nice Hakai, it's Soli


magic mirror is impossible to reforge. one of its shards is keeping Lokote imprisoned in Equestria, remember? at best, it just ends up trapping Solitus with Lokote, and Lokote is a reality-warping trickster whose only limitation to his power is that any wish he grants has to have a twist or a downside, including the ones he makes himself. kind of a bad combination, especially since they would just endlessly grin at each other and create an eternal feedback loop of pure smug.

so yeah, probably erase Solitus. unless he somehow ends up being a Freeza/Joker equivalent villain who just somehow ends up roaching/cats nine livesing his way to long term survival like them. which makes sense- for some reason that ability to just keep coming back and recur always goes to middlingly competent yet likeable villains while highly competent, powerful dangerous ones die, probably because if you make a villain too competent and powerful, its a one act wonder- they can't ever give a repeat performance at the same level of quality. I'm definitely saving Solitus for other potential campaigns and stories just like how I can see Jade Refera being in many situations and universes outside of this one. The strangest thing is that to me they both fit Exalted- possibly even both as Zenith caste Solars, just in vastly different ways.

----------


## igordragonian

Yeah, make sense. Especialy in dragon ball kind of story telling, I don't think that nitpicking is in the spirit.
Beside, we can always make up new mcguffin. Maybe Hashirama Cells!






> Well, it will be intresting to see againt Buu. (Which I am planning on using, and I think you wanted to see Masala Vs Buu)
> Also, I'll work on recap on the Assasian Guild Arc of Apfel, since we probably will never actually roleplay it, and there are some ideas that might he relevant to the large scheme of things.
> 
> 
> Btw.. is Hawk still with us?



*Spoiler: Galactic Assasian Guild*
Show


It started when Snap out of no where, has appeared injured and bloody and took Apfel to other planet.
Assasians of the guild are attacking them, no matter where the instant transmissioned to. Snap's student has joined the guild, and learned advanced techniques of instant transmission, and this is super fast battle over countless of planets and maybe dimensions.
 Eventually they defeat them all, and meet assasian no.1 who no one could tell or remember- a Shinjin, a Censor, who used his censorship powers to become assasian, mostly as game, and were able to ban actions as _impossible._ (no idea how Apfel, surpaassed it, but he did)
above him was 'No One'-    Gen, from the same rare specie as Ginyu. At this point he was the whole empirial council. mind controling them, and never really dead, because of his abiltiy to switch bodies.
He also the Spider Master- the one who has trained Snap.
Not sure how Snap and Apfel have defeated him, but they did.

----------


## Rater202

I hope that doesn't seem like too much.

We did previously establish that Oxy knew Supr Ghost Kamikaze.

Oxy's logic here is that if Solitus breaks concentration for even a second he loses the beam of war and gets impaled.

----------


## igordragonian

I am fine with it, I am sure Solitus can overcome it.



Raziere- how hard should we make the training to Vodkana to be?

----------


## Lord Raziere

depends, how many posts do you want to spend on it?

oh don't worry about Solitus. you'll soon see he is kind of hax.

----------


## igordragonian

I love training arcs, with even character devolpment and stuff, I just don't want to bore you. Also, not sure what the "scedule" you have planned

----------


## Rater202

Lagerin's Dragon Balls aren't a priority--it canonically takes 100 days to make a set of dragon balls from scratch.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Lagerin's Dragon Balls aren't a priority--it canonically takes 100 days to make a set of dragon balls from scratch.


ah. 

thank you. I now have a clearer course of action to take .

----------


## Rater202

Taking Oxy's sword seems a little two close to God-Modding for my taste...

I'm sorry, wasn't the point of this dealing with Kuromo and then Solitus?

I was under the impression that stomping Solitus was the next thing on the list.

If I'm wrong about that you need to tell me before I spend a week wasting my time trying to do something that's never gonna happen.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Taking Oxy's sword seems a little two close to God-Modding for my taste...
> 
> I'm sorry, wasn't the point of this dealing with Kuromo and then Solitus?
> 
> I was under the impression that stomping Solitus was the next thing on the list.
> 
> If I'm wrong about that you need to tell me before I spend a week wasting my time trying to do something that's never gonna happen.


I thought we'd have something more dramatic than just teleporting right to him. I meant "dealing with Solitus" in the sense that "we're going to have an epic arc where we fight a big battle across the heavens, facing the army of Hell under his command, facing each villain before he is the final one left, while the cities of heaven burn from the riots, until you finally face him as a team as he pulls out all his tricks and powers up through his various transformations." and so on.

and I did tell you:



> I wouldn't say its a Final Battle.
> 
> Its more one of those "Mid Story" Battles where something big is on the line, but you don't know what the outcome of it is. whats at stake is the new Dragon Balls Lagerin is making. how this battle results might determine how the Final battle goes though!


If this was the final battle, as in the part where you face Solitus and defeat him for good, there'd be a lot more going on. This doesn't feel like a final battle, this feels like a Vegeta moment where vegeta flies off to face the big bad early thinking he can defeat him alone because he is Vegeta. I assumed you read my post and that you were okay with like a mid-story showcasing of his abilities without fully revealing what he can do to like, show why Vodkana would be vital to this battle or something, because singular villains in Dragon Ball often have multiple battles with other people before they are defeated with many twists and turns, so there would be mid-story battles, early story battles and so on. and it drags out until everything gets incredibly desperate and destructive thus reaching the climax and boom something big and awesome and destructive and such. I thought everyone agreed that Solitus was the final battle, and since people like Blizzan, Lagerin, Meta-Tuffle, Deglargo, Tailripper, Val-Kagra are all still there to mess things up, the final battle can't happen yet. 

and that y'know, we'd train before going in and do this big united attack on retaking heaven and such. you just kind of anti-climactically teleported in then ignored the dead Yellow Princess who could've told you about the the rebel force hiding in hell who could've joined you in the final attack.

I admit, I'm not good at coming up with reasons WHY we'd do the whole retaking heaven bit as a big battle thing, I just like it that way, but that still doesn't exactly change the fact that I can't just anti-climactically allow you to kill him when it has been agreed Solitus was the final boss and other villains have not been defeated yet and not in "one shot, done" way but an "actual effort" way, because I don't like one shot laziness thats boring to me.

but I will edit the sword part out since you clearly don't like it and find something else for Solitus to work this.

----------


## Rater202

Having it as a big battle doesn't work when you have another big bad that's gonna happen in just a few in-universe days and most of the party is off doing other things when this was what was talked about being next.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Having it as a big battle doesn't work when you have another big bad that's gonna happen in just a few in-universe days and most of the party is off doing other things when this was what was talked about being next.


Well you have to remember, I didn't expect you to be here at first.

Perfect Cell Junior was initially was supposed to be an antagonist for _The Referas_ so they would be off fighting someone else while Vodkana and Tarasi and whoever else would be fighting Solitus, its a battle that occurs at the same time as Solitus so that Jade doesn't steal the win like Goku or something and would instead be fused into Berade to defeat him. so that it isn't a repeat of Hailing. of course, this didn't work out.

the current plan is for Onin, Cell Junior and Pinappla to arrive there for Pinappla to be the hero there while the Referas are facing Val-Kagra, and everyone else faces Solitus. 

well aside from Shanakan facing Kurumo, I'm not sure how thats exactly going to work now. 

but its rolepalying so, y'know, things go off plan and have to improvise. Crystal Firefly and the Blizzan commanders was initially not even going to even be a thing! I had to make it a thing so that the Unkillables arc wasn't basically "peace unicorn casts freedom spell, Unkillables kill Deglargo easily, people talk Yellow Queen out of conquering the world within 2 seconds, the end."

that and the fact that the godly powers of the characters involved allow for a lot of skipping of things I prepare, so, if I'm skipping around you killing a villain off, its only because your skipping around all the stuff that supposed to happen before they die. I'm sorry if I can't accommodate your intelligent use of power, but Dragon Ball isn't really about that power being used well, its about people having the power to destroy the universe or something and deciding to withhold or not withhold that based upon stupid things like pudding or having a good fight. DBZ isn't designed for scry and die shenanigans its designed so that you have big dramatic, drawn out fights against things that outclass you and you fight them anyways because its the right thing to do, or because your Goku and you like a good fight no matter how strong. 

like what am I supposed to do here? not follow how this show does things?

----------


## Rater202

> the current plan is for Onin, Cell Junior and Pinappla to arrive there for Pinappla to be the hero there while the Referas are facing Val-Kagra, and everyone else faces Solitus.


Really?

Because the last time this was discussed, the plan was "stop Kurumo, kill Solitus, then do a training arc int he Time Chamber so Oxy'll be strong enough to kill Cell Junior as was Cell Junior's explicit in-character challenge."

Before that, it was "stop Lagerin, kill Kurumo, Kill Solitus"

It keeps getting more complicated and it seems I'm the only one following the script.

Or rather, the script is being changed and I'm the only one who doesn't know.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Really?
> 
> Because the last time this was discussed, the plan was "stop Kurumo, kill Solitus, then do a training arc int he Time Chamber so Oxy'll be strong enough to kill Cell Junior as was Cell Junior's explicit in-character challenge."
> 
> Before that, it was "stop Lagerin, kill Kurumo, Kill Solitus"
> 
> It keeps getting more complicated and it seems I'm the only one following the script.
> 
> Or rather, the script is being changed and I'm the only one who doesn't know.


I'm sorry I'm bad at communicating this to you.

I've had this discussion over solitus being the last person people face in this and the last thread openly without hiding it. I assume these discussions are read by everyone. apparently not?

I never said that you face Cell Junior after Solitus. yes, Cell Junior was Oxy's fight, but that has nothing to do with Solitus. what I meant, was it was his fight right then, but then when the time came to finish the arc with a bang by facing a foe stronger than you and overcoming them, and I even lowered his level of power so that he wouldn't be to overpowered, you just let him walk all over you instead of rising to the challenge I expected you to do, because it sounded like Oxyribo would like to kill Cell Junior no matter what and pull out all the stops, but you just didn't do that, and I'm sorry that I overestimated his power, or overestimated his willingness to face foes stronger than him apparently? 

I'm not sure where you got this "you have to kill Kurumo and Solitus first" from, I said training yes, but that had nothing to do with Solitus. I assumed that you gave up on Cell Junior because you didn't go train in the time chamber to face him. maybe I'm misremembering, my memory is not perfect, but I distinctly remember *not* telling you that Kurumo or solitus had anything to do with taking down Cell Junior. but I do distinctly remember that Solitus is final boss and that every other villain is stuff you face first, multiple times.

so its like, I'm not sure what your logic for Oxyribo is, because I gave you the entire Unkillables arc and you barely fought or did anything, then when I gave the perfect chance for this finale duel thing, you let Oxyribo get beaten, becomes your roleplay him as incredibly competent and unbeatable, and sometimes you roleplay him as oddly inactive and not rising to any of the story beats I give him, so I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to be playing more hard or playing more soft here.

I wasn't trying to hide anything from you, and I'm sorry I that gave you the impression that we made plans that I didn't make.

----------


## Rater202

We sdiscussed this months ago.

Arctic bought a week to train in he Time Chamber.

But the day _after_ Lagerin was the day we had been set to meet with Kurumo and Oxy was one of the people who had agreed to be at that meeting.

We discussed it OOC and determined that we'd deal with Kurumo and Solitus and then use the remaining 6 days to train for Cell junior, becuase Cell Junior being 50 times as powerful as Super Perfect Cell is the most overpowered thing in the universe right now by all indications up until now.

I set Oxy at 3 times Super Perfect Cell at his strongest, and that's _after_ unlocking his super mode _and_ a God-Tier Zenkai boost.

With Cell Junior's PL there was no way in Hell that Oxy was going to be able to beat him.

That _anyone_ was going to be able to beat him.

I even explained where Oxy's PL was when you commented on PCJ's PL before making it the much lower 50X times SPC.

I roleplay Oxy as having a consistent power level that only increases when it's appropriate to increase it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> We sdiscussed this months ago.
> 
> Arctic bought a week to train in he Time Chamber.
> 
> But the day _after_ Lagerin was the day we had been set to meet with Kurumo and Oxy was one of the people who had agreed to be at that meeting.
> 
> We discussed it OOC and determined that we'd deal with Kurumo and Solitus and then use the remaining 6 days to train for Cell junior, becuase Cell Junior being 50 times as powerful as Super Perfect Cell is the most overpowered thing in the universe right now by all indications up until now.
> 
> I set Oxy at 3 times Super Perfect Cell at his strongest, and that's _after_ unlocking his super mode _and_ a God-Tier Zenkai boost.
> ...


Well, I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't given Cell Junior super saiyan at all and just let you fight him out, but thats past, unless we're willing to retcon that or something, I can't do anything.

I don't remember it dealing with Both, I said you'd get to get to negotiate with Kurumo, Solitus had nothing to do with that, and I didn't even remember until someone else reminded me that we did that have that negotiation with Kurumo. Solitus has two super forms anyways, so he isn't even fighting you at full power, maybe I can say that while PCJ has his super form there was some other factor that was increasing his base power by 50 temporarily that wore off? I dunno. 

so I guess I can find a way to lower PCJ's pwoer to be equal to yours or something, (maybe I can Kurumo altered PCJ's power level on the first confrontation through some fate trap he set up in advance?) but Solitus is final boss as has been agreed upon with Ing and Igor and will be more powerful.

----------


## Rater202

No.

There's no need to retcon anythuing.

It's just _incredibly_ frustrating to realize that I've wasted so much effort on something that was never going to happen, and now I need a reason for Oxy to leave the fight becuase there's no way in Hell he'd normally leave Solitus still alive.

On Solitus after Kurumo: In character dialog had strongly implied that Kurumo was the only reason Solitus couldn't be stopped yet.

Re: The Unkillables Arc: I _tried_ to steer that into combat. Every time I started Oxy would be rebuked Ic. Once it had finally devolved into combat, the first person Oxy fought was miraculously able to dodge an IT attack()which are always effective in canon and then Delargo was too hax to fight straight up and had to be tricked.

The fact that he's immediately a threat again less than a day after being killed is also frustrating.

Edit: Wrong name

----------


## Lord Raziere

> No.
> 
> There's no need to retcon anythuing.
> 
> It's just _incredibly_ frustrating to realize that I've wasted so much effort on something that was never going to happen, and now I need a reason for Oxy to leave the fight becuase there's no way in Hell he'd normally leave Solitus still alive.
> 
> On Solitus after Kurumo: In character dialog had strongly implied that Kurumo was the only reason Solitus couldn't be stopped yet.
> 
> Re: The Unkillables Arc: I _tried_ to steer that into combat. Every time I started Oxy would be rebuked Ic. Once it had finally devolved into combat, the first person Oxy fought was miraculously able to dodge an IT attack()which are always effective in canon and then Delargo was too hax to fight straight up and had to be tricked.
> ...


and I'm sorry! I screwed up again. :(

Solitus After Kurumo:
well....to be honest, I'm not sure myself why he can't be, the same reason why I'mn ot sure you can't just go right up to a dark lord in a fantasy land and just kill him right away instead of going on a roundabout quest for that, but it happens, so I should've come up with a better reason for things to be structured like this.

Unkillables Arc: well I _wanted_ an arc where we just went in and fight, but we're not the only two players here! Ing and Igor and Max's layer and Hawkflight are all more investigative/relationship kind of roleplayer so I had to design an investigation phase and a fighting phase, to give them a chance, but I guess I screwed that up to.

----------


## Rater202

I think the problem is that I came back with the statements that this era was supposed to be Cell saga power levels and built the new version of Oxy with that in mind.

Kurumo and Solitus were presented as the main enemies of the era.

I _assumed_ this meant that they were Cell Saga PL.

So when you introduce a villain who is somewhere in the Buus and then gives us an in-universe week to get strong enough to stop him, that's an indication that _he's_ the real threat snd we need to hurry up snd clean up the loose ends.

And lets be honest?

Give Oxy 6 years to train when a better Bio-Android is planning to kill everyone and he's gonna come out of the time chamber so far beyond Cell Saga power levels that it's not even funny.

Stronger Bio-Android _and_ Guy Oxy already killed is back with competing bull**** reality warping abillities and a down-right unfair boost to PL? You'll be lucky if Oxy comes out at BoG power with how determined he is considering that so far you've given him the impression that he can't leave you people alone.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I think the problem is that I came back with the statements that this era was supposed to be Cell saga power levels and built the new version of Oxy with that in mind.
> 
> Kurumo and Solitus were presented as the main enemies of the era.
> 
> I _assumed_ this meant that they were Cell Saga PL.
> 
> So when you introduce a villain who is somewhere in the Buus and then gives us an in-universe week to get strong enough to stop him, that's an indication that _he's_ the real threat snd we need to hurry up snd clean up the loose ends.
> 
> And lets be honest?
> ...


Okay.

I'm sorry. 

I won't do that.

I understand your frustration, and how I miscommunicated, I will improve. I'd probably be just as angry in a similar situation.

what am I supposed to do? I can adjust things, make the Cell Junior weaker, base Solitus is just as strong as base Oxy right now, and thats not a retcon that was always the plan. I can make Orkomajin 45 do something or other to delay Cell Junior until a Buu-level arc, I can come up with something else but I have to know what you'll be happy or at least live with, and we won't be going anywhere until I know what I can do, to make this right or make you feel better at least.

----------


## Rater202

I _really_ don't to retcon anything or delay anything more than it's already been delayed.

I just..
I'm not angry, I'm just frustrated.

I don't know what to do.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I _really_ don't to retcon anything or delay anything more than it's already been delayed.
> 
> I just..
> I'm not angry, I'm just frustrated.
> 
> I don't know what to do.


well then I'll just keep slinging ideas at you until you find something you like to do because if neither of us knows what to do, we have to figure out what to do or we're just going to screw things up again.

would somehow tricking PCJ into getting depowered by 50 divisions through a combo of Verun'nas tech and Diamond for this time then discarding the tech after be okay?

would gathering the Unkillables to help you fight PCJ as a team and killing him in a big blast of energy be good?

would Solitus somehow pushing you off into some parallel universe with some one time artifact that you have to figure out how to get back within six days that would somehow give you a solution to the PCJ problem while your there be okay?

would perhaps Jade trying to permanently drain PCJ's power through some clever means but it only half-works and she gets injured that makes leak all that power out uselessly as a result work?

would Luxana coming in and triggering Solitus to do something because she is his sister work to get out somehow?

would perhaps, Val-Kagra joining in and making the fight unfeasible for you to win be enough? or perhaps just Solitus showing a taste of his true power?

like, could I let Solitus die, and just reveal later that it was a Clonitus that the real Solitus was somewhere else, so that Oxyribo can at least have the satisfaction of ending him to a degree?

because there are two different problems here and I'm trying to figure out how to solve both of them. one is how to disengage from Solitus, and the other is how to deal with PCJ when you want your PC power to be something consistent, since Oxyribo won't disengage himself there has to be an outside force to make him do that for him, since we can't power you up too much for the sake of consistency, and since you've declined retconning or delaying him, PCJ has to be depowered to some degree though the players cunning, characters own abilities or something like that for this single plot. and the more both of these can be solved with a single solution, the better, thats just efficiency

So perhaps Solitus himself sends you to someplace that provides you a solution to PCJ or something thinking that he has banished you forever only for you to find a way out. doesn't have to be parallel universe, just somewhere where you can't just easily teleport back, or maybe Solitus hits you with some attack that temporarily shuts off your ability to teleport for a week while pushing you off to somewhere else in the universe and whatever planet you end up on provides a solution to PCJ, who knows?

----------


## igordragonian

From my humble perspective, as it is, we are giving Dragon Ball much more thought and depth, then the original franchise. Like, it took more then 30 years just to see Sayians in cannon on their original planet. If Frieza's race has females at all, still up to debates-
But we are having fun world building and this great.

How ever, the strentgh of Dragon Ball, is great epic scenes, mostly of battles or destruction or other flashy marvels.
We as roleplayers love to give stuff more context and background. What I am trying to say, that nitpicking on techniques, power levels too much is against the spirit.
I love What If videos on youtube, but many of them are boring, because they miss the point.
"If Vegeta were sent to Earth instead of Goku, he wouldn't have been challenehed even by King Picollo" doesn't feel righf. If Vegeta were sent to Earth, Wether King Picollo would have been worthy foe anyway, or some other villian.

Plotwise, it isn't fitting for Solitus to be defeated yet. Actually in Dragon Ball, the main bad guy usually have the edge at the begining and it seems impossible to defeat him, until the hero come with something new- just to be defeated again.
https://youtu.be/8tLASpyLvKc

This video can be super helpful for us. That one of the reasons, i think it hard to make rpg system for Dragon Ball correctly.
Some random natural 20 or 1 might ruin such narrative.
This is my two raditzes on the subject.

----------


## Rater202

Plotwise it _is_ fitting for Solitus to be defeated.

For one, there are multiple villains active. That never happens in Dragon Ball.

For two, Solitus isn't some evil mastermind, intergalactic tyrant, or superweapon. He's a spoiled manchild who we already killed once. He's only in a position of power becuase of Kurumo's scheming. Every indication since I came back was that he was Kurumo's pawn and that Kurumo was the only thing keeping him from being deposed.

He's also currently the biggest threat. Solitus has essentially taken over the entire universe. PCJ may or may not be stronger, but he's occupied for at least a week. and a bunch of tech-based aliens who don't have Ki are basically ants, even with Ki suppression technology.

And yet, Oxy's the only one treating Solitus like he's dangerous. By all means, the logical response to dealing with Kurumo would have been for everyone to immediately go to otherworld to murder the crap out of him.

Solitus is already a reality Warper and he's getting stronger at arate tha'ts downright unfair. Killing him now before he becomes literally omnipotent is the only thing that makes sense.


> would somehow tricking PCJ into getting depowered by 50 divisions through a combo of Verun'nas tech and Diamond for this time then discarding the tech after be okay?


It'd be out of character for Diamond to willingly discard advanced technology that could be useful in the future. If he introduces tech he's_ gonna_ keep using it.


> would gathering the Unkillables to help you fight PCJ as a team and killing him in a big blast of energy be good?


The strongest Unkillable is about equal to Perfect Cell. Against Super Perfect Cell x50, they're basically cannon fodder.


> would Solitus somehow pushing you off into some parallel universe with some one time artifact that you have to figure out how to get back within six days that would somehow give you a solution to the PCJ problem while you're there be okay?


Maybe, but defeating PCJ with some artifacts or one-shot technique would be damaging to Oxy's psyche. Oxy's programmed to surpass the original Cell. Killing PCJ on his own merits would satisfy the condition of that programming, but not doing so would leave that compulsion there without a way to satisfy it(it was passive when there was no hard means of comparison in place.)


> would Luxana coming in and triggering Solitus to do something because she is his sister work to get out somehow?


The problem is, well, see above: Oxy wouldn't leave of his own will until Solitus is dead.


> would perhaps, Val-Kagra joining in and making the fight unfeasible for you to win be enough? or perhaps just Solitus showing a taste of his true power?


That would immediately result in Oxy heading for the Time Chamber.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay.

That all makes sense, Rater.

but that doesn't help. It doesn't matter how many reasons you come up with _why this won't work_ if its not going help us solve this situation. your not playing ball. it doesn't matter how much of a threat Solitus is, we've all agreed he is the the last villain to face, I've made the entire plans around him being the last villain to face, and I don't want to change any of that just because you feel frustrated over some miscommunication. I can't change that! him being the final guy to face, is kind of the intention from the beginning.

Solitus being killed right now is just not on the table. period. thing is, the entire point of the lagerin Dragon balls was to resurrect Solitus (but not make him immortal) and make an actual threat rather than dithering around in the afterlife where he can't actually affect anything in the mortal world, because I realized that he should've been more active and threatening, but you screwed that up by attacking him now.

I know you want this to make sense, and we can try for solution that will, but your trapping yourself in from solving this with your own logic, and I don't have time to constantly harangue you with solutions you won't accept. anyways, if you don't tear yourself away from Solitus, Lagerin and meta-Tuffle are gonna go into the hyperbolic time chamber to make their own complete set dragon balls since they take 100 days to do that, while Blizzan is going to find some other way to use the incomplete set he has, Solitus will probably start getting harder, and so on.

(by the way I don't actually plan on Solitus being omnipotent, I have a _very specific_ definition of omnipotence, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball, he just has abilities that very much make him seem all powerful to the common folk.) 

like I can post up a character sheet for Solitus if you really want, but that won't change the fact that he is final boss, I can't do what you want. as for Solitus not being a threatening villain...that is easily fixed. but I'm not going to let an anti-climax happen just because you want him dead fast. I'm not here to serve you weak villains to kill in one or two hits.

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## Rater202

you decided that Solitus would be the final enemy before I got here.

I made several posts indicating Oxy's desire to take out Solitus as soon as Kurumo was death with but only informed me that no, he wasn't going to be defeated no matter what after several posts of Oxy actually trying to do so.

Solitus is plenty threatening. He doesn't need to be brought back, the fact that he's already taken over Otherworld and can somehow force reality to bend to his whim is threatening enough, as is the fact that the afterlife isn't safe with him there.

By all means, you should have just said "No, Rater, we agreed on this we're not killing Solitus now" when I made this post almost a month ago


> So, that's taken care of.
> *
> Now they just need to put down Solitus, then Oxy has a date with the Time Chamber.*
> 
> And then, maybe after Junior's dead, they can track down that doppelganger of Oxy's. Poka's already trying for that.
> 
> *Meanwhile, wherever the Hell Lagerin is*
> 
> Demon God Pokassuu teleports in behind Lagerin. He can't sense her, she's a God now, so he'll have no idea she's there until she says *"Doooooooooooooom"* in his earin a raspy whisper.
> ...


I was just acting on the information I had available to me--the information that indicated that Solitus was only protected by Kurumo and that Perfect Cell Junior was a bigger potential threat based on known power levels.

Also: The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is currently on earth.

Max relocated the earth outside of the universe: The RA are the only people who can get to earth.

Time chamber _can't_ be used to circumvent the hundred-day crafting time for making dragon balls from scratch.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay.

your feeling frustrated and that you wasted your time because of I didn't bother to tell you something that I thought everyone knew, I apologize, I screwed up again stop the freaking presses.

do you have a point to make other than beating this horse into a fresh grave? if not, perhaps, take a break and recognize that this just a game, chill out and remember that your character not getting what they want immediately isn't the end of the world. and that me screwing up isn't anything new, and will probably happen again, so your just going to have to live with me being an imperfect human being like everyone else, and live with imperfect solutions to your problems.

----------


## Rater202

I'm just trying to figure out where to go from here and how to do so in a consistent manner.

The only thing I can think of is having Oxy get stomped and slink off to the Time Chamber to train, but that runs into the issue that Oxy is a no-nonsense type. He aims for the kill. He engages in sneak attacks. And if he needs to be stronger he makes himself stronger.

If Solitu stomps Oxy, that'll be th second time in as many days that Oxy's been defeated.

That's the most consistent thing... But after 6 years in the time chamber at bear minimum, we're gonna be at Super Buu power levels(The Bear minimum needed for someone 50 times as strong as Super Perfect Cell) which is to say, stronger than what you're going for with Solitus.

----------


## Lord Raziere

the PCJ power level I did was a _mistake_ Rater, being consistent with a screw up, is nothing but screwing up more. being consistent with all this is not helping us.

----------


## Rater202

> the PCJ power level I did was a _mistake_ Rater, being consistent with a screw-up, is nothing but screwing up more. being consistent with all this is not helping us.


Okay.

Now we've retconned it, his PL is now something Oxy could have beaten.

So then we have to g back and redo months of this game because Oxy beating PCJ would invalidate a lot of posts.

I _hate_ changing details that already happened for that exact reason. If you go back and make major changes, then the story _has_ to be redone because the story wouldn't make sense anymore.

Just rolling with the mistake and going forward is the only workable course of action.

I'm just trying to figure out how to do that without having Oxy act inconsistently with his prior character.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Okay.
> 
> Now we've retconned it, his PL is now something Oxy could have beaten.
> 
> So then we have to g back and redo months of this game because Oxy beating PCJ would invalidate a lot of posts.
> 
> I _hate_ changing details that already happened for that exact reason. If you go back and make major changes, then the story _has_ to be redone because the story wouldn't make sense anymore.
> 
> Just rolling with the mistake and going forward is the only workable course of action.
> ...


no, I'm not going into Buu levels of power early just because your inflexible about your character. I  am the person GMing this, I have plans and things prepared and would need change far more than you, just accept that the power is largely narrative and meaningless.

----------


## Rater202

There is an infinity of space between valuing consistent characterization, world-building, actions, and power level and being inflexible with my character.

You introduced PCJ as being a Buu saga level enemy.

This wasn't a mistake. We have a conversation that led to that descision--you initially gave his power as much, much higher than what it is now and I played along with your decision to introduce an antagonist that was at Buu Saga level power while the PCs were only at Cell Saga levels. It's on the very first page.

We are already at Buu Saga level threats, and you're the one who introduced Buu Saga level powers.

Now, I'd like to hear Ing's opinion on where to go next.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well I didn't intend to introduce those yet, so I'm not going to go along with something I did not intend, no matter what. I'm not letting you unbalance the game massively in your favor just because I didn't lower someones power enough.

lets see a tally of heroic power ups (defined as any permanent upgrade in strength within a ridiculously short amount of real universal time) per saga in DBZ:
*Spoiler: DBZ power ups*
Show


*Saiyan Saga:* 1
(Kaio-ken)
*Namek/Freeza Saga*: 13
(Goku: zenkai from saiyan saga, gravity training, zenkai again from ginyu, super saiyan
Vegeta: zenkai from saiyan saga, zenkai from zarbon, zenkai from Recoome, zenkai from Krillin
Krillin: unlock hidden potential from Guru
Gohan: unlock hidden potential from Guru, zenkai from recoome
Piccolo: fusion with Nail
Dende: unlock hidden potential to heal others)
*Android/Cell saga:* 6
(Hyperbolic time chamber: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Trunks.
Piccolo fuses with Kami.
Gohan super Saiyan 2)
*Buu Saga:* 1
(Mystic Gohan) 

(fusions don't count because they aren't permanent and didn't do anything important, while Vegeta got all his useful super saiyan forms from timeskips, so they don't count, and SS3 is also a timeskip acquired ability. Oozaru was not permanent, so it doesn't count either)

of per Saga in DB Super:
*Beerus Saga:* 1
(Saiyan God)
*Resurrection of F:* 0
*Champa Saga:* 0
*Future Trunks Saga:* 3
(goku and Vegeta going back and forth training in the present twice, Trunks Saiyan Rage)
*Tournament of Power Saga:* 1
(Vegeta Royal Blue)
*Broly Movie:* 3
(Broly: Wrath State, Super Saiyan, Legendary Super Saiyan all in one fight)

(Ultra Instinct canonically didn't stick, so unfortunately it doesn't count as power up until Goku taps into it consistently, no mention of Royal Blue, while SS Blue, Kaio-ken Blue are both things that they were training to get beforehand was just being revealed so they're timeskip and don't count for this. I'm not counting the U6 saiyans because they were technically antagonists to U7)


what does this all mean? notice how Namek Saga had the highest number of quick permanent power ups for the heroes, while later arcs actually had less. what is also true of the Namek Saga? why its the saga where numerical power levels were used the most, despite its introduction of the concept being in the saiyan saga. the number of quick, often meaningless power ups you need to go through to make an arc work directly correlates to how precisely you pay attention to power levels. meanwhile in Super there are actually a lot less bull power ups acquired in very short amounts of time and the ones that are, are given more dramatic weight and significance, or are written to be temporary so that it happens....but then doesn't have impact outside that arc, which I consider fair: easy come, easy go. 

all power levels do, is make you have to constantly upgrade a character multiple times within one arc to raise their PL by an arbitrary numerical amount until they can finally face the big bad, and its not even creative or particularly interesting because the characters never really changed from them. by getting rid of power levels, Toriyama refined the process so that the whole power up acquiring thing needs to only happen _once_ at the right dramatically appropriate time, because once is all you need, and is much better for it. its pretty telling that no other anime ever put a hard number on power ever since, because its largely useless for the purposes of the story it tells.

discussions like are why we threw out hard power levels in the first place, why I don't give hard power levels, it leads to a constant rise in power level thats way too fast for good roleplaying to take place, just constant meaningless boosts. in Namek Saga with that high level of precision, people went from being in the thousands to being in the 100 millions, thats _x100,000_ the amount of power they had previously, more than any piddly x50 or x100 multiplier the super saiyan states give you. if we had that amount of precision the PLs would be rising like nuts and be get overpowered in no time. the less we pay attention to power levels, the better.

----------


## Rater202

You deliberately made a character that was over 16 times stronger than my strongest character in direct response to being told how powerful that my character was.

And I agreed to this. I said that Oxy didn't need to win the fight.

You gave me a week, in-universe, to get my character up to that level, reduced to 6 days after pointing out that the meeting with Kurumo had been forgotten.

Logically speaking, if Oxy is planning to beat someone who is 16 times as powerful as he is and has six years to do so, he's going to go out of his way to make himself at least 20 times that powerful.

You're the one who skewed the power levels. I'm just trying to stay consistent.

And now you're getting mad at me for wanting to do the thing we already talked about doing.

Would you rather I just arbitrarily have Oxy win? Becuase that's what happens when you throw out power consistantly.

And again, I want Ing's opinion. He's the only player that's still here regularly that hasn't chimed in yet.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> You deliberately made a character that was over 16 times stronger than my strongest character in direct response to being told how powerful that my character was.
> 
> And I agreed to this. I said that Oxy didn't need to win the fight.
> 
> You gave me a week, in-universe, to get my character up to that level, reduced to 6 days after pointing out that the meeting with Kurumo had been forgotten.
> 
> Logically speaking, if Oxy is planning to beat someone who is 16 times as powerful as he is and has six years to do so, he's going to go out of his way to make himself at least 20 times that powerful.
> 
> You're the one who skewed the power levels. I'm just trying to stay consistent.
> ...


And I don't _want_ to skew the power levels. your holding yourself to something I don't care about. I didn't think it'd be Buu Saga levels, your the one insisting that it is, from calculations only you know or care about. I should set based power far lower, and I don't care one whit for staying consistent with anything that leads to an imbalance like this.

if your going to insist upon Buu saga levels, I'm going to have to raise all other villains to Buu saga levels to be fair so that everyone has to train to meet them, so that they're not massively outclassed by Oxyribo. then we're going to have to agree to not raise the power levels during timeskip so that the next saga stays at buu saga levels as intended, which is stupidly complex and changes a lot for very little difference aside from this saga's villain hardness in comparison to just solving this little problem instead of making a much more massive problem because you want everything to fit together.

but we all know that wouldn't actually be fair, because the other characters aren't combat monsters like Oxyribo, so it'd just wind up with Oxyribo fighting a lot of them and getting even more powerful because of it. your asking the entire roleplay to change just for your little consistency preference, thats not happening

Edit: well, Ing clearly had time to post an IC thing yesterday and he didn't comment, and we can't make him comment, so he either didn't look at this, or decided to stay out of it, and I'm not going to make him post for the sake of your desire for him to post. if he doesn't want to voice his opinion he is free to his silence or to voice his opinion after this, whatever works for him, but I think it would be best if we could solve this without dragging in more people than we already have?

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## Rater202

So, you want these stories to progress at a certain level of power while leaving Solitus for last and I want to have a story that has characters acting consistently with previously established power levels and characterization.

So, a proposal.

As before, Oxy gives it his all and still loses to Solitus, and heads to the Time Chamber(this time with Poka, who as a Demon God now has a max power roughly equal to Oxy's.)

When they come out, they're at levels _far_ beyond PCJ or Solitus... The Time Patrol or the Grand Priest or someone comes out and informs them that their current power level as Divine beings makes them far too powerful to stay in Universe 13 for the time being as their mere presence might interfere with the quarantine and the reluctantly evac until either the quarantine goes down or there are more people present with power levels comparable to their own to balance them out(with preparations made so Oxy can maintain his kingly responsibilities from a distance.)

Thus, the characters are semi-retired until later on--at most they can offer advice thourgh consulting calls or appear very briefly if a story is backed into a corner and someone needs a deus ex.

PCJ is instead defeated by Diamond pulling some technobable out of his ass that hampers his renegeration, allowing the remaining members of the RA to kill PCJ despite being much weaker, Diamond takes Oxy's position as my dominant PC untill later on, and I introduce a new character to take Diamond's role as a kid in a support position(probably recycling Bokussu's concept from the now defnt Universe 0 game, but not as thesame character.)

Sound fair?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So, you want these stories to progress at a certain level of power while leaving Solitus for last and I want to have a story that has characters acting consistently with previously established power levels and characterization.
> 
> So, a proposal.
> 
> As before, Oxy gives it his all and still loses to Solitus, and heads to the Time Chamber(this time with Poka, who as a Demon God now has a max power roughly equal to Oxy's.)
> 
> When they come out, they're at levels _far_ beyond PCJ or Solitus... The Time Patrol or the Grand Priest or someone comes out and informs them that their current power level as Divine beings makes them far too powerful to stay in Universe 13 for the time being as their mere presence might interfere with the quarantine and the reluctantly evac until either the quarantine goes down or there are more people present with power levels comparable to their own to balance them out(with preparations made so Oxy can maintain his kingly responsibilities from a distance.)
> 
> Thus, the characters are semi-retired until later on--at most they can offer advice thourgh consulting calls or appear very briefly if a story is backed into a corner and someone needs a deus ex.
> ...


Okay, we're trying to come up with solutions, thats good. I'm glad.

However the quarantine has nothing to do with power levels. its concern is entirely with the Trombone cultists and their ability to steal divinities from actual gods. PCJ? Oxy? Poka? They have nothing to do with that, and the Time Patrol has no jurisdiction in U13, so if we're talking previously established consistency, then that would violating something even older.

while Grand Priest? isn't that kind of solving an unhammered nail with slamming a mountain on it? why would he even care about two people he never met before being slightly more powerful to his perspective? it seems a random thing for him to get involved in. that and do we really want to involve overpowered outside-universe elders like in the early days?

thing is, I'll be honest and say that I'm conflicted: on one hand apart of me would like a solution much that, its tempting, but it doesn't sound fun for you and I don't like punishing people just because of their playstyles, and I'm sorry if I haven't been making it fun for you. that and PCJ kind of meant for Oxy, what was the point if PCJ is just going to be taken out by someone else anyways?

though I'm curious, is your consistency thing like your building something and can't stand a brick being out of place?  or dominoes that already fell? something like that? just asking, cause knowing your mindset, your reasoning for what you find fun in general might help with this. because I've a feeling that this might be coming from a playstyle that I'm not grasping and if I can improve myself to work with that style and to try and communicate better, it would help both of us.

like I guess we could find a way to leave them out of the story temporarily as a last resort? but I don't want to come to that if I can help it? it would feel like I failed you to a degree if that happens, if I haven't already. because if I remember there is already that whole thing with the Wh40k saga Ing has planned where for some reason you proposed leaving out Oxy? and I'm just wondering what your reasoning is for why you'd rather leave out a character you'd like to play out of entire arcs rather than change even a little bit so that you can have fun with them.

but if you want to change characters and really feel as your going to have more fun that way, I can't stop you.

----------


## Rater202

Okay, consistency wise, let me give you a metaphor.

Say a writer at Marvel Comics decides that Spider-Man being radioactive makes no sense--otherwise Mary-Jane, Carlie Cooper, Felicia Hardy, Gwen sTacy, Aunt May, J. J. Jamason, basically everyone who Peter spent a lot of time around would have radiation sickness or cancer. He doesn't make AU's based on this logic, he just writes in a storyline that retcon's it that Peter wasn't radioactive but, branching off the "totem" stuff that's been a big part of the character since 2005 that he's got an aura of "spider-Magic" that gives off a false positive but is otherwise harmless.

However, this opens up a plot-hole: Anti-Venom can purge radiation and doing so weaken's Peter's powers. However, symbiotes are antithetical tot eh Great When of Life and Destiny so the reveal works on that logic to close the plothole.

But, he doesn't explain how Aunt May got radiation sickness all the way back in the Lee-Ditko era as a _direct_ result of a blood transfusion from Peter. You can't just ignore something like that--that was a significant story arc in terms of Peter's character development. If you wipe that out of continuity that Peter _and_ his history should logically undergo a significant change which would reverberate throughout the Marvel universe.

It's like you're playing Jenga, and somebody takes out a load bearing piece but then the tower doesn't fall even though _there's nothing holding it up._ Like, a Jegan tower with an empty layer near the bottom. All three pieces on that layer are gone, it should have fallen.

Retcon it so that PCJ had a more reasonable power level, and that gives us two options: Redo everything since he showed up(Over a month of posts) or continue on with a glaring plothole.

I'm not too keen on either of those things.

Re: Suggestion. I was just throwing out people who might be interested in universal stability... Though I'll note that going by Xenoverse 2 and HEroes it seems that SKoT is a Multiversal level God, not a Universal one(Especially with the reveal in the Future Trunks arc of Super that splitting the timeline affects the entire Multiverse, not just the universe you're in) so even if they're hands off they should still have the relevant authority.

However... Oxy and Poka have never encountered the Cross Clan. They have no idea who that is.

If they can steal Divinities, then having two Buu Saga or higher Gods who don't know about them presents an interesting target for them... Or maybe there's the possibility that two such powerful Divine Kis coming seem seemingly no-where runs the risk of setting them off and Oxy and Poka are forced to pull back from the universe until they're dealt with, the rest of the Rebel Alliance catches up to Oxy and Poka's power level.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Hm. I see. Though I doubt a roleplay we have for fun and improvise half the time is really the place for comic books standards of continuity? comic books kind so much continuity that its hard to get into them in the first place.

as for that reason why they leave, Could be, sounds a lot more plausible.

my way to fix this would to be somehow make a villain do something to set things back on track somehow, since hey, villains can do anything and not change since they're hated no matter what, but the only one that has motivation to see Solitus rule longer is Tailripper because of his ties to Makai. and anyone making a change on PCJ right now would involve: 1. something one time use 2.can target someone at FTL speeds 3. lower PL without making Oxyribo angry or retconning, both of which seems to be impossible.

A weaker PCJ from the future somehow coming in to bug the stronger one to fight for him wouldn't have the same impact and there'd be no reason for it and I'd imagine make Oxy mad that they're doing the "fight my raditz instead" thing. (but weaker PCJ than this current one DO exist, their entire "society" IS founded upon a ranking system where you move up it by fighting duels)

Things that can't be done:
-retcon
-depower
-delay

So if it has to happen now, without depowering or retconning PCJ,  then something new has to happen to convince him to leave instead? but thats just another form of delay? I REEAAAALLLY don't want to resort to contriving ways for characters to leave because they were too intelligent for the plot, because I know I can't plan for everything people do and need improvisation to fill the gaps, there is a certain amount of cheating involved where I adjust things before they are introduced to make sure its not boringly short or something. I'm not exactly an iron-hard planner here- (honestly I wish I could plot things out better for my own writing and get it going more rather than constantly meeting writers blocks.) and it just doesn't feel right that you feel you have to do that.

personally I would just quietly depower PCJ while not really drawing attention to the changed events and try to ignore it, but you value consistency far more than me and that consistency seems to have made me powerless to help you at all, because I can't come up with anything, and I wish I could. personally I don't view roleplaying or writing as a form of clockwork where if one thing is out of place the whole thing falls apart, because in either one mistakes will inevitably happen and I just have to accept that they will be made and I don't like the mindset of branding people with their mistakes, especially when they feel they want to correct them, but thats just me.

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## Rater202

Changing PCJ's PL would require either a reboot, which I don't want to do becuase going back and redoing everything would be both tedious and unfair to everyone else, or a plothole which wouldn't actually fix anything. Oxy lost to PCJ and he's losing to Solitus. His natural response to both of those things would be to go train.

Oxy and Poka as high level, no-nonsense people with universe wide teleportation and scrying abillities clearly aren't meant for this kind of story and the only actions they can undertake that's consistent with their characterization would make them even more unbalancing for the story in question which would force you to either contrive things or abandon your plans.

It makes the most sense to me to write them out of the story until later on when the story's moved to conflicts against stronger enemies that scry and die aren't effective against.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Ok then.

if you ever want another PCJ encounter again for Oxyribo, you can plan it yourself then and give me your plan for how I should do that.

----------


## Rater202

Well, we can always have *Super God Tier* Oxy and Poka cleaning up the timeline that PCJ came from in a side story later on.

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## Lord Raziere

> Well, we can always have *Super God Tier* Oxy and Poka cleaning up the timeline that PCJ came from in a side story later on.


cool, sounds awesome.

as for current PCJ, he will jump down to Hell of his own volition if he dies. I know, strange, but think of him kind of like one of those charming jailed villains who don't mind staying in the cell and would go along with any plan where he gets out and fight dudes, in the sense that he is a monster who can be controlled. like he will probably just be lounging in some hell jacuzzi full of lava just to screw with peoples heads if people visited him and won't care about Solitus or anything happening above.

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## Rater202

well, only thing left to do is end the current fight scene with a bang so we can move on.

Will post IC in the next couple of hours.

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## Lord Raziere

oh and uh, speaking of Super God tier:

how does everyone feel about information about the last saga I have planned which will probably be about that level given comparative feats with Zamasu or Super Broly, maybe even higher? how much will be spoiling vs. preparation so that you don't get freaked out? because its going to be the saga that Jade and the Referas were meant for, and I don't want to screw it up. like how much do you want or need to know?

----------


## igordragonian

Ah. Sorry, I just wanted to make reply with Tsarbone as well, and wanted to find time and understand what is goijg on with Blizzan. Also, wasn't sure if to say something.
I actually still didn't, and now there is more and more to catch on.
My fault. Just sAying.
I don't care that much about power levels. For me, it's really general thing. If you will try to quanitfy with exact numbers what going on with Dragon Ball, you better roll for a sanity check. 
(Yeah, lately GMing CoC 7e for a friend)

I am not sure the Saga I had in mind, will survive a very critical point of view. I never think of Dragon Ball stories in such a way... I am reconsidering my ability to pull it off, if to be honest.

Anyway, Raziere, I think we have discussed it. Your idea sound epic and fun for me, so sure.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Ah. Sorry, I just wanted to make reply with Tsarbone as well, and wanted to find time and understand what is goijg on with Blizzan. Also, wasn't sure if to say something.
> I actually still didn't, and now there is more and more to catch on.
> My fault. Just sAying.
> I don't care that much about power levels. For me, it's really general thing. If you will try to quanitfy with exact numbers what going on with Dragon Ball, you better roll for a sanity check. 
> (Yeah, lately GMing CoC 7e for a friend)
> 
> I am not sure the Saga I had in mind, will survive a very critical point of view. I never think of Dragon Ball stories in such a way... I am reconsidering my ability to pull it off, if to be honest.
> 
> Anyway, Raziere, I think we have discussed it. Your idea sound epic and fun for me, so sure.


yeah, thats basically my stance on power levels as well.  (kid goku: gets hit by multiple bullets fired by bulma and doesn't get hurt, Adult SS Blue Goku who has endured far harder things right before ToP: gets bruised by a bullet. not consistent.)

I wouldn't worry too much. you worry too much about whether you CAN do something or not at all, you end up not doing it. instead think of yourself doing it as inevitable as long as you want to do it and any obstacle in your way as something that can be overcome sooner or later. 

as for my Saga, I was more asking for _how much_ you'd be comfortable knowing, not whether you wanted to know or not, but I guess I could probably share with you the whole thing and not have any problems, your style of play wouldn't conflict with that. I'll PM you since Rater nor Ing has responded whether they want to know or how much they want to know yet, so I'm assuming they don't want to know ahead of time and just play it out when they get to it.

----------


## Rater202

Anyway, since I reintroduced him I'm gonna do an updated profile for Monesco of Romaine.

Monesco
*Spoiler*
Show

Name: Monesco of Romaine
Age: Early 20s
Gender: Male
Hight: 6 ft
Weight: 205 lbs(muscular body type)
Species: Pure Blooded Saiyan
Station: Diamond's Bodyguard.
*Spoiler: Description*
Show

Monesco is a tan skinned Saiyan whose hair resembles surfer or "emo" hair--long 'bowel cut' with spiked bangs that go down before his left eye.

Monesco is muscularly built with black fur on his tail.

Her dresses in full body Saiyan armor with black undersuit, shoulderless body armor, and white gloves and boots.


*Spoiler: Personality*
Show

Monesco was the son of a chief of one of the more primitive tribes of Sayains until they were wiped out in combat with a rival tribe. Monesco is very big on honor, especially the repayment of debts. He's sworn loyalty Diamond after Diamond saved his life and has since become Diamond's best friend. Beyond that, he's very much a no-nonsense fighter.


*Spoiler: History*
Show

Monesco is the last of his tribe. Diamond saved him from a rockslide and he's been diamond's loyal friend ever since.


*Spoiler: Abillites*
Show

Base PL: Cell Saga
Max PL: 10X Base(Base physical attributes proportionately much higher)

*Martial Artist:* Monesco's tribe didn't have much in the way of specific techniques or form. Monesco has since had formal training in combat, but his almost barbaric heritage is obvious--martial arts masters from earth would call what he does a "style of no style." Monesco fights quickly, brutally, using whatever blows or grabs seem effective while aiming to win. He has only generic energy beams, blasts, balls, and bursts barring a mouth energy cannon which is the same as that which Saiyans use instinctively in Ozaru form, the fire breath variation of the same, and the Moon Ball technique which he rarely has a need to use anymore.

*Primal One:* Monesco's tribe didn't have legends about Super Saiyans. Instead, they have stories about Warriors who through long meditations on the moon have mastered the power of the Ozaru, being able to transform instantly into larger, faster, and stronger Great Ape forms without the need for moonlight and even draw upon the power of the Ozaru without Monesco's decision to Diamond led him to pursue the legend, and after a decade of training and meditation in a specially constructed synthetic blutzwave chamber, Monesco has achieved it. Monesco can transform into the Ozaru at will without needing a Full Moon or another source of Blutzwaves, having absorbed all he needs in the Blutzwave chamber. His great Ape form is one (giant) head taller than normal and is constructed more like a human body builder than an ape in terms of musculature and stance. It's twice as strong, fast, durable, and agile as a typical great ape of his power level. Monesco also _doesn't_ change into a great ape automatically, only when he chooses to even when staring directly at the full moon. He rarely has a need to transform, however, as he's mastered it to the point that he can concentrate the Great Ape's power down into humanoid form. In this form, he grows a head taller and his muscles bulge out considerably. His power level is multiplied by ten, and his physical strength, speed, durability, and agility become almost twenty times what they'd normally be at his new power level as the power of the Great Ape is concentrated into a smaller vessel.

*Stamina training:* Monesco has a hard to damage body, an absurd tolerance for pain, no tail weakness, and is very, very difficult to tire as a result of his dedicated training.

*Mechanic and Pilot:* Ten Years or so with Diamond meant that Monesco can fix some moderately complicated machines and pilot most vehicals.

----------


## Rater202

Is New Plant wished from scratch or was it a pre-existing planet that was terraformed?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Is New Plant wished from scratch or was it a pre-existing planet that was terraformed?


Pre-existing planet that was terraformed.

----------


## Rater202

So Diamond's taking over as my main PC, the returned Monesco's taking Poka's role as support, and the thing they just discovered is gonna be a new character that takes Diamond's previous role as a supporting character who doesn't directly fight.

----------


## igordragonian

sorry, I hope tonight to reply

----------


## Emperor Ing

So how strong IS Kurumo?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So how strong IS Kurumo?


He is about as strong as semi-perfect cell. but his true power is in his fate-tricks that can do. he was always supposed to be very tactical.

----------


## igordragonian

not very happy with my reply, but I guess it better then nothing,
I can speed the training mini arc if it's too much of a bother, though, I think training arcs, are part of the fun in DB.



Also, ing. I am curiouse for what trainings Apfel's wife(which I have forgotten her name) planned for Vodkana...


and was Snap caught by the Veruanians?

----------


## Emperor Ing

Traube has very little hope of actually being able to increase Vodkana's level. She'd make a horrible sparring partner as well, since she's around Ginyu Force levels of power. No, she would put Vodkana through military training, to hopefully teach her discipline and restraint. Basically, it's goddess boot camp.

As for Snap, well, TBH I don't know what to do with him.

----------


## igordragonian

> Traube has very little hope of actually being able to increase Vodkana's level. She'd make a horrible sparring partner as well, since she's around Ginyu Force levels of power. No, she would put Vodkana through military training, to hopefully teach her discipline and restraint. Basically, it's goddess boot camp.
> 
> As for Snap, well, TBH I don't know what to do with him.


it's actually sound like fun.


hmm.. I guess we can retcon Snap out of this then. oh well.

----------


## Rater202

> Fate is a cruel force. It cares not for ones personal feelings and goals.


That's because it doesn't exist and anyone who thinks it does is just making excuses.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> That's because it doesn't exist and anyone who thinks it does is just making excuses.


okay.

the whole Beerus and him meeting a saiyan god sort of is like, there with a prophet in Dragon Ball, but okay. you probably have some explanation that ike, makes you right or whatever.

to be honest, I'm not sure what direction to take this, since every move I seem to make is the wrong one for you, so I'm not sure what the right move is here, I was just trying to do something thematic and in keeping in character with Kurumo, but okay.

I'm just tired right now, not sure how to make it fun or engaging.

----------


## Rater202

Seeing possible futures isn't the same as seeing fate.

For example, we know for a fact that in Future Trunks Timeline, Lord Beerus never came to Earth and fought the Super Saiyan God--Goku wa slong dead by then and Beerus' arrival would have been before the time period of The Origin of Trunks.

We also know that the Super Saiyan God ritual couldn't be completed as there were only two Saiyans in the entire universe at the time and then one died.

However, Lord Berus received the prophecy decades ago, possibly even before the Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and all other changes to the timeline are the result of either Future Trunks or Cell, so Beerus must have still received the prophecy in that timeline.

Ergo, there's at least one timeline where the Oracle Fish was wrong.

I don't mind Kurumo thinking that Fate exists and acting as such, but when you introduce pre-determination it makes things needlessly complicated.

For example, Kurumo only sees futures where he either kills Jade or the universe ends.

If he's only seeing possible futures, then there's no problem.

But if he's seeing fate, then either Jade Dies or the Universe ends. Everything else would be a complete asspull.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay, I've edited it then.

Kurumo is just meditating trying to think of what to do now, not sure because he isn't a person who acts without some certainty he can rely upon.

----------


## Rater202

You didn't have to edit it.

Kurumo acting as an unfeeling agent of 'Fate' could have easily been justified as him having driven himself mad via the existential crisis he was having.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> You didn't have to edit it.
> 
> Kurumo acting as an unfeeling agent of 'Fate' could have easily been justified as him having driven himself mad via the existential crisis he was having.


oh.

I can edit it again to be more clear about that.....sorry...

----------


## Rater202

Don't apologize.

I feel like I'm pushing you around or something. I'm just...

Look, I don't like including pre-determination in games, okay.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Don't apologize.
> 
> I feel like I'm pushing you around or something. I'm just...
> 
> Look, I don't like including pre-determination in games, okay.


Okay. I'm sorry, I'm just not sure how to do things when I ruined your fun with Oxyribo.

I'll keep that in mind. technically the only one in that post that WAS predestining was Kurumo himself by giving into Fate before the edit to make him just going quietly mad, all else was possibilities, but best to remove Fate entirely to not open a can of worms I guess, and just kind of.....write off Shanakan and Kurumo's Sidereal Exalted-esque antics as some kind of luck manipulation? hm.

----------


## Rater202

I've been operating on the assumption that it's looking into possible futures and manipulating probability.

Edit: Apparently at somepoint, Toriyama said that Saiyan Hybrids with Tails are less potentially powerful than Hybrids born without tails.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I've been operating on the assumption that it's looking into possible futures and manipulating probability.


They do. your right.

but y'know Sidereal weirdness and....not exactly sure how one manipulates the probabilities of something on the level of a DBZ fight, exactly? like, in a normal fight with that kind of power, you manipulate probability so that the environment turns against the foe in various ways, but with DBZ fights, it gets hard, because so much of that is eliminated: can't make you trip on a stone, your probably so powerful that you break the stone instead, can't make a beam misfire and hit somewhere else instead because of the physics of a DBZ beam pretty much means it will fly out into space in a straight line with little room for uncertainty to make it change directions, things like that. so its a bit hard to figure out ways to make such things work sometimes.

----------


## Rater202

increase the odds of them missing or lose control.

Or a random meteor strike.

The VN Tsukihime(by the same guy who did Fate/Stay Night) has a power called Marble Phantasm wherein one can make anything happen as long as it's possible in reality and the odds of that happening are greater than Zero--temporarily conjuring matter from nothing(Permanently conjuring matter from nothing is an order of magnitude greater) becuase the probability of that happening wasgreater than zero.

In more humous spin-offs, it's used to transform into a Magical Girl with all the powers that entails.

And it works by probability manipulation.

----------


## igordragonian

Sorry to nag, not sure how to reply without crushing anyone's storyline.


And wasn't sure if I am supposed to reply to Kuromo's...

Should I mention situations I have imagined in Trombone's arc that would he dangerouse?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Should I mention situations I have imagined in Trombone's arc that would he dangerouse?


if he gets defeated, he won't be problem.

so if Kurumo gets truly redeemed (he was always meant to be a tricky foe and full of ambiguities), the way to take care of it so he is out of the plot, is probably to Worf him for Trombone's entrance scene, have Trombone suddenly come out of nowhere first post, Kurumo to express surprise at not foreseeing him and getting defeated easily. his entire ability hold back Trombone long ago was his mind, not his body.

@Rater; also forgot to reply to Diamond, will have to do that next post at least, also check up how the fusion bracelet is going. y'know the thing that Diamond offered to make Jade back before the orc invasion began?

also that fate power sounds like good, I'll name "Fate Art: Summon Improbable Event" when Kurumo uses it.

----------


## igordragonian

I see, till not sure how to reply.
what are we doing with Vodkana and Tarasai?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I see, till not sure how to reply.
> what are we doing with Vodkana and Tarasai?


I thought we were done and just going into repetitive practice stuff that can be timeskipped over, unless there was more you had in mind?

I think we're kind of in a weird place where its not clear how everyone can contribute and we just...not having much direction and I'm not sure what direction to try help us along.

----------


## igordragonian

eh, just muttering character devolpment and yada yada, I am ready to skip to..

----------


## Rater202

*Android 10*
*Spoiler*
Show

*Name:* Android 10
*Age:* Roughly 10, biologically speaking.
*Gender:* Girl.
*Height:* Four foot four
*Weight:* Wha tmakes the most sense at the time.
*Species:* Bio-Android(Literally everything)
*Station:* Just kind of there.

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Android 10 looks like a little girl with east Asian features, big bright green eyes, and a button nose. Her hair is shoulder length and is usually kept bound in a ponytail or left straight. She dresses in a variety of outfits that no one is sure where she gets them from.

In her true form, her skin turns gold with blue tiger-stripe patterns om her arms, legs. Her ears become pointed and her hair, eyes, and nails turn blue. She also grows adorable little fangs and a long, tapered tail not unlike an Arcosion's though somewhat narrower at the base. In this form, she dresses in a typical Majin girl's top and knee-length puffy white shorts. No gloves or shoes.


*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Android 10 likes fun and hugs.


*History:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Android 10 was created by Doctor Magenta as a weapon for revenge against the Rebel Alliance from countless DNA samples and a Saiyan blooded child. It's ambiguous if she's the child modified or a fabricated existence based on the child's appearance and brain waves.


*Story So Far:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Woke up in Diamond's lab.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show

*PL:* It's either really low or really, really high. It's hard to tell sometimes

*Limitless Stamina:* Android 10 has literally infinite Stamina, Ki, Life Force, and all other energies due to a combination of modifications and inherant factors from her component races.

*Black Hole Tummy:* Android 10 is constantly hungry. She can be satisfied, but is never, ever truly full and is always physically capable of eating more.

*Practical Immortality:* Android 10 does not age(though she's capable of maturation,) her cells repair themselves perfectly down to the genetic level at a rate many times faster than they accrue damage, and in general she does not seem to be negatively impacted by entropy. This, combined with enhanced durability from many sources, the Majin race's ability to recreate and reconstitute their molecules and countless healing factors make her practically indestructible barring intervention by a God of Destruction.

*Being of Chaos:* Genetic Donors with a variety of mystical or reality warping abillities have resulted in Android 10 having a mystical presence that renders them categorically unpredictable to magic or psychic attempts to predict her actions. Attempts to read her fate or predict her future by supernatural means automatically fail, barring literal, absolute omniscience being in play. This has no effect on the people around her.

*Absorption:* As a phase two Bio-Android, android 10 can drain energy with a touch, absorb cells with a touch to gain your techniques and DNA, or transform people into candy or treats with magic and eat them to absorb all of their power and techniques in one go. She can also drain ambient psychic energy from the environment. She may also be able to absorb technology, but she doesn't know and has never tried to.
*
Impossible Anatomy:* Is impossibly flexible and can stretch to an absurd degree, just like a Majin.

*Fighty Stuff:* Having the cells and energy of countless fighters means she'd be really, really good at any and every form if it if she actually bothered to do it.

*Energy Stuff:* The cells of countless beings means that she can instinctively use countless ki techniques, magic spells of various kinds, and psychic powers. too bad she never fights.


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Has access to a pocket reality full of all sorts of crap. Mostly clothes.

----------


## igordragonian

Waitwaitwait.
So, she is also from the future ? When and how she arrived? What has been decided about Oxy?
Why andorid 10? Isn't it an exisitng character in Dragon Ball?

----------


## Rater202

She's from Oxy and Diamond's timeline.

How she got here is deliberately ambiguous since the quarantine means I can't really follow up on that Magenta plot that I set up before I left the first time.

Oxy and Poka are going to be semi-retired until either we reach a higher level of average power or trombone is dealt with.

Android 10 is probably a canon character, but here it's short for "Bio-Android Phase 2 RP-10"

----------


## Lord Raziere

what I'm seeing is that Android 10 is probably something closer to a joke character similar to Arale than not. I would not worry about it too much.

unless I'm wrong, Rater?

----------


## Rater202

Comic Relief. Adorableness. Being the kid of the group. Occasional Non-Combat Support roles.

If she's fighting, something's gone wrong.

----------


## Rater202

For the record, Android 10 is based semi-loosely on Ashley O'Leary, a marvel comics OC of mine.

I mentioned her when Raz had a hostile Klyntar Symbiote as one of the subjects in the depths.

Mixed Irish and East Asian ancestry(I don't know what that amounts to in Dragon World since it has different geography and unless you're black or some kind of Indian everyone looks the same) Klyntar symbiote with DNA from multiple heroes and villains.

Combining multiple powersets and being adorable and friendly despite essentially being an eldritch abomination is the key thing to take away.

----------


## igordragonian

okie dokie, tnx for explaining

----------


## igordragonian

hate to do this....mmmm
but the road serpent was killed, but maybe it's easily fixed...
sorry sorry
deskslam*

----------


## Lord Raziere

> hate to do this....mmmm
> but the road serpent was killed, but maybe it's easily fixed...
> sorry sorry
> deskslam*


they didn't actually kill it, they just.....whapped at it a little, unsure of Solituses sanity and brought back a bunch of spines, since its like, they may be people from hell but its not as if they're up for destroying anything just because.

@ Rater: as for Solituses PL, no, it hasn't changed at all. its not constantly rising. he just trained really hard for twelve years while dead to achieve the power and techniques he currently has, and just hasn't been showing his true power until pushed to do so, much like any other overconfident villain in DBZ. his ability to learn things at an astonishing rate is separate from his PL.

----------


## Rater202

Oxy doesn't know that.

All he knows is that Solitus is a manchild who became absurdly powerful to an absolutely unfair degree when most people in the same circumstances would have been unable to and has a bunch of absurd abillities.

Ergo, Oxy is abusing the Hell out of the time Chamber's gravity training to get as strong as possible with the ultimate goal of crushing Solitus before he can get any more powerful with sheer overwhelming force.

He's not gonna get to, but he's operating off of the information he has available to him.

----------


## igordragonian

So the Dishanna Vs Cooking battalion is out of cannon now?
I am fine with it, just want to know. Because Dishanna and Spoon are relevant. At least for Vodkana

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So the Dishanna Vs Cooking battalion is out of cannon now?
> I am fine with it, just want to know. Because Dishanna and Spoon are relevant. At least for Vodkana


I just assumed it completed itself rather than become non-canon. we don't do retcons. either complete anything that doesn't involve interacting with other players quickly or don't do them at all.

----------


## igordragonian

> I just assumed it completed itself rather than become non-canon. we don't do retcons. either complete anything that doesn't involve interacting with other players quickly or don't do them at all.


I don't get it, but whatevers, I'll reply

----------


## Rater202

Orkomajin 45 looks like Green "Android 21" version of Berade, right?

----------


## igordragonian

sorry, feeling so so... trying to get back to usual.

----------


## Rater202

> Orkomajin 45 looks like Green "Android 21" version of Berade, right?


Would like an answer to this.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Would like an answer to this.


oh sorry. things haven't been all that active here lately so.....

Yes she does.

----------


## igordragonian

No one has asked for this! No one probably care! But if someone might care, it might be you!
(I write it for fun, don't force yourself to read if it bore you/my english too bad)


*Igordragonian's two raditz fix of tournament of power*

*Spoiler*
Show


"Ooc": Why to fix? I think the concept was badass, but it went to many boring directions, and it could have been much more intense and exciting. 
There were many possible plotlines, that I think they have missed on.
If you think I have missed as well, tell me! I am quite curiouse of your opinions. It's also a bit of how I view story telling,
"Ic"-
Our main antagonist in this fix is Bergamo. Mostly, because of the drama, in the pre tournament duals, and his oath to survive, and also their background as the "worst universe". I think an underdog (pun intended) antagonist is much more intresting then Jiren. And you will see how this play out. In general, the enemies are smarter and more dangerouse in my fix, because... I had feeling of excitment, but no of dread before the tournament- we didn't had any reason to feel that our heroes will be overwhelmed.

So, there would be a conversation or two about the potential danger of Bergamo's ability, and Whis provide some hardcore backstory to them. (Generaly, the growth of street children to the greatest mercenaries of universe 9 and possibly multiverse pirates. I think that U9 multiverse is probably a thing, if you want I can prove why) so Beerus command them to elimnate him first thing in the tournament before he become too strong.
Goku is forced to promise. (While he cross his fingers behind his back)

Buu falling asleep and recruting Freeza happens as normal. How ever- during the assination attempt of Frieza, Videl call Gohan and tell him that Buu and Mr. Satan have dissapeared after a short yellow mouse has appeared.
Furioiuse Beerus, want to complain on Tequila to Zeno, but Whis point that Buu isn't a member of the team anymore, and if Zeno will be annoyed he might delete universe 7.
Videl beg Gohan to save her father, and so he promise.

Frieza seems to scheme with Tequilla behind the scenes, but one of the Z fighters notice him.
The tournament begin. U9 aware of their weakness compared to others DONT charge like idiot orkz. There is a reason, how those ten warriors managed to survive the "universe of trash". Though, Beerus command Goku and Vegeta to hunt for Bergamo. Goku ignore it, wanting Bergamo to grow into a challenging oppent, and going to look for Hit or Jiren. Vegeta sort of obey, but when the Dangero Trio throw their allies in the face of Vegeta, and Vegeta doesn't try this hard to hunt for them.
Gohan still try to keep the group together, Frieza still trolling people around.
Universe 10 is the first to get defeated, mostly by Gohan's team, and Krillin show his growth.
Though, Gohan hesitate and the win is "stolen" by Rebriane of U 2. 
Show the unique powers of U 3, while the Danger trio steal victories.
Goku looks for Hit but faced by the Sayian girls while Vegeta face Cabba.

Gohan face Frozen, and Picollo the Namekians.  Gohan is attacked by Rebrian, but Rebrian is stopped by Krillin, and 18. Rebrian is overpowering them, but in teamwork, they manage to defeat her.
Meanwhile Hit try to provoke U11, but when he see that his allies in danger he come to their aid.

Something invisible catch 18 off guard pushing her, she entrust the rest for Krillin.
Vegeta manage to push Cabba to Super Sayian 2, but then Frieza defeat Cabba with a surprise and agonyizng attack. Vegeta despite the threats of Beerus attack Frieza, who lure him to a trap of Universe 3, which manage to almost push Vegeta off rings- who is saved by sacrafice of Tin Shen.
Freeza is gone at this point.
17 is hunting for the invisboe warrior who defeated 18, while Krillin exaust himself against some warriors. 

Before Goku defeat Kaliffa, Hit stop Goku and fight him, while Kaliffa fight Krillin-  will Krillin be finally a challenge to a Sayian?
Hit is stronger then ever before, and a sneak attack by third party (the Danger trio?) Push Goku to Ultra Instinct for the first time.

Vegeta fight U3 almost alone. 
The Danger trio are the only remaining warriors of U9 and starting to attack U11, while even the weakest among them are stronger then them- so they don't pay much mind to them, but Bergamo slowly becoming stronger and stronger.

Gohan finally seems to be about to defeat Frozen who seems to be out of tricks, he had one finale- and Freeza saved Gohan, by attacking them both, and pushing Frozen off ring.

Hit almost losing, but saved thanks to Mageta's sacrafice. 

U3 activate their super megazord thing, which here is actually a somewhat challenge, but Vegeta wins, U3 is elimanted.

17 forsake his chase, and start to defeat the remains of U2, which get elimnated as well.

Picollo win the Namekians.

Krillin to everyone's surprise push Kallifa to the limit, with new and surprsinf techniques(which make his character arc episodes pre the tournament to feel like they paid off). He still lose, but with much dignity.
The Danger Trio who has elimanted two fighter of U11 have ran away, and together have finally defeated Kaliffa, using their  triangle technqiue, though, one of them fall off in the end.



U4 finally start to actually moving, to wipe out weakened warriors with their trickery.

Number surviver wise, U4 are leading. They defeat Roshi, and another Pride Trooper, which finally motivate them to fight seriously. 
Goku wake up, due to the healing of Picollo, who lose to the Insect fighter, which is defeated by 17, who also defeat he invisible fighter.

U4 are mostly defeated but one fighter, who cannot be found. 

Half hour is left,

U7: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Freeza, 17
U6: Hit, Botamo
U9: Bergamo, Lavender
U11: seven top members
U4: ??


Goku try to fight Jiren, Vegeta fight Botamo, Freeza Toppo, 
Bergamo and Lavender gang on Gohan, 
17 vs some pride troopers.
Goku is pushed back, Vegeta after hard battle defeat Botamo,
Toppo is beaten by Freeza but saved by Jiren.
Gohan defeat Lavender and escape Bergamo who became too strong for him, just to be met by... Buu.
Buu is the secret and last member of U4.   Tequilla has sealed Buu and kidnapped Mr. Satan, so he became member of U4. Buu has to win, if he want Mr. Satan to survive.
Gohan has Zenkai boost and a new form, and he almost defeat Buu, but remember his promise to Videl- he let Buu defeat him. 

17 defeat most of the pride troopers, Freeza is forced to work with Vegeta ro defeat Toppo, Hit, Buu and Goku entering a three way dual
While Bergamo challenge Jiren. 
Toppo is defeated, Vegeta stay due to Freeza's sacrfice- he want to win, in order to be revived. Notning personal, you monkey!

To everyone's shock Bergamo defeat Jiren and elimante U11.



Now Goku, Buu and Hit trying to gang on Bergamo, defeating Buu and then Hit. U6 and U4 are elimanted.
17 seems to die, and Goku and Bergamo lose together, 17 is the last remaining warrior. He wish for the revival of all the universes and etc.

----------


## Lord Raziere

That would actually be better than what we got.

like Krillin actually having a good moment, thats strong, especially against a saiyan. Bergamo being final foe would also be great as it shows you can't judge someone by where they come from. Buu actually motivated to be antagonist again would certainly be creative and make the arc much more tense.

really the Tournament of Power Arc's biggest problem was that it leaned too much into tropes that didn't apply to it. U9 got the Yamcha trope even though hardship and ones universe being bad is what made U7 strong, Jiren got the stern edgy arrogant rival treatment who only cares about strength even though he would work better as anything _but_ that given that he is on a SUPERHERO TEAM and cares about JUSTICE and was forced to be the heel when he clearly work as one. U10 was just there without much to say about them, could've done with at least SOMETHING to them. U2 and U6 I think were well done enough, but I'd be open to them being better. U3 and U4 definitely could use more _umph_ aside from big robot fusion guy though. 

Personally, there is a lot ways one can change the tournament of power, so if I were doing it, it would depend on which direction I'd want it to go. there is a lot of moving parts, so a lot you can make happen.

----------


## igordragonian

> That would actually be better than what we got.
> 
> like Krillin actually having a good moment, thats strong, especially against a saiyan. Bergamo being final foe would also be great as it shows you can't judge someone by where they come from. Buu actually motivated to be antagonist again would certainly be creative and make the arc much more tense.
> 
> really the Tournament of Power Arc's biggest problem was that it leaned too much into tropes that didn't apply to it. U9 got the Yamcha trope even though hardship and ones universe being bad is what made U7 strong, Jiren got the stern edgy arrogant rival treatment who only cares about strength even though he would work better as anything _but_ that given that he is on a SUPERHERO TEAM and cares about JUSTICE and was forced to be the heel when he clearly work as one. U10 was just there without much to say about them, could've done with at least SOMETHING to them. U2 and U6 I think were well done enough, but I'd be open to them being better. U3 and U4 definitely could use more _umph_ aside from big robot fusion guy though. 
> 
> Personally, there is a lot ways one can change the tournament of power, so if I were doing it, it would depend on which direction I'd want it to go. there is a lot of moving parts, so a lot you can make happen.


I admit, a better writer of course would have done a better job then I did.

I mostly fixed what annoyed me.
Buu not getting a role.
Krillin's character arc going nowhere.
I felt there were a set up for something big with Bergamo. (and effectivly, his power is sort of parallel to Hit's)

honestly, U11 had a potential, but I can't find myself caring for Jiren, so I think he can be sacrficed to hype someone more intresting.
I think Vegeta and Freeza also could had more payoff, though mostly, Freeza were fun in general.

And of course, U10 was boring. But didn't had much ideas for those.


Also, I wanted more tension toward the end, and to see the best there-
I think we all wanted to see Hit at the climax for example. stuff like that. But it was fun to imagine it, one way or another.

Mayne The 'Tournament' of power, is actually a War Arc, which many animes have, and the results.. varied

----------


## Rater202

So I just realized that I missed an opportunity by not having Android 10 come from the Dream 9  timeline.

(I kind of want to know what Cell was like in that universe.)

----------


## Emperor Ing

So, i'm kind of stretched for ideas for how the Veru'nas can deal with Android 10...

----------


## Rater202

Right now, she's like Buu in Super.

If it looks like she'll actually solve the problem she'll take a nap or get bored and wander off.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So, i'm kind of stretched for ideas for how the Veru'nas can deal with Android 10...


Welcome to my world. Know my pain. I will be sympathetic.

----------


## igordragonian

Raziere- as the current narrator, do you think Tsarbone as midway antagnonist

Also, I was thinking of Vodkana's new form, and right now trying to draw her.
Though, the explanation is a bit zeny and wierd, but I will try to make it to make sort of sense- as much as required from Dragon Ball..

----------


## igordragonian

Here...
*Spoiler: Starving Vodkana*
Show

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Raziere- as the current narrator, do you think Tsarbone as midway antagnonist
> 
> Also, I was thinking of Vodkana's new form, and right now trying to draw her.
> Though, the explanation is a bit zeny and wierd, but I will try to make it to make sort of sense- as much as required from Dragon Ball..


Yeah, I agree he pretty much is a midway. 

as for Starving vodkana.....hm, interesting, is it transferring all the fat into power? that sounds like it would be dragonball-ish, I like the spikes on the tail.

----------


## igordragonian

> Yeah, I agree he pretty much is a midway. 
> 
> as for Starving vodkana.....hm, interesting, is it transferring all the fat into power? that sounds like it would be dragonball-ish, I like the spikes on the tail.


the question where our story stand?

it's all of her power. it's inspired partly by Sans. She has 1 percent of her ki in this form, and maybe less.
She can't use ki, she get exausted after a minute of action- but she can pass the galaxy running in minute.
it's mostly Rock Lee's effect multiplied in dragon ball-ish scales.

at least this is the concept.

oh. Vodkana also losing her curves. she doesn't like it

----------


## Lord Raziere

where the story stands?

basically.....in terms of villains, Blizzan is pretty much out of the game permanently.

Meta-Tuffle and Lagerin will be trying to take the incomplete Dragon Balls and some other powerful artifacts and run like the selfish greedy people they are.

Tailripper will be trying to kill Shin shortly while the chaos happens for his own glory and recognition in Makai and having Shin doing the "hold out as long as he can until help arrives" thing.

Val-Kagra is probably the second most powerful threat, with her determined to corrupt as much of Solituses legion to her side and kill him to gain his power using demonic magic and is much more active a threat. this entire battle is happening half because she started it.

Solitus isn't focused on any of this. He will be soon trying to speak to the entire universe with hypnotic telepathy to try and hypnotize them to give worship him and give him their energy spirit bomb style so he can resurrect himself. like the spirit bomb, this will take time.

Kurumo if he isn't done in the next post, probably will be soon.

FERRUM will seek out Majins and other anomalous beings (Android 10 counts)

I intended to plan some artifact superweapons being pulled out in this battle, but I never got around to figuring out what those were aside from maybe FERRUM. so if I do, they will be made up on the spot sort of. 

this is pretty much the final stage of it.

----------


## igordragonian

So.. will another midway villian disturb the story flow? I ask, because there were more than one instances that my eagerness to add stuff, ended up "meh". 

Also, "Starving Vodkana" make sense? At least as dragon ball forms go

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So.. will another midway villian disturb the story flow? I ask, because there were more than one instances that my eagerness to add stuff, ended up "meh". 
> 
> Also, "Starving Vodkana" make sense? At least as dragon ball forms go


nope, this all is moving at the speed of plot right now. probably how I should do all the arcs from now on, to be honest. try to not be too chaotic with the results with peoples choices as I have been maybe.

it makes sense, for one of the sillier forms. I mean Evil Buu and Beerus is pretty much the same look, but super Buu is stronger because he has some musculature to him, so I could see it going like that: Fat Base form Vodkana, skinny starving vodkana for greater speed, then a perfected Athletic Vodkana form.

----------


## Emperor Ing

I was kinda imagining a rematch between Apfel and Kurumo, where he attempts to finish him off, only to find out that although he's still way stronger, power levels are just numbers, and as long as Kurumo worships fate, he cannot hurt Apfel, since his moves are absolutely predictable to him. All Apfel needs to do is drive the World Blade into his heart, at the right moment.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I was kinda imagining a rematch between Apfel and Kurumo, where he attempts to finish him off, only to find out that although he's still way stronger, power levels are just numbers, and as long as Kurumo worships fate, he cannot hurt Apfel, since his moves are absolutely predictable to him. All Apfel needs to do is drive the World Blade into his heart, at the right moment.


That can be arranged. though as in the past, it involves screwing with time and will involve a parallel universe. (my original plan for him was that it look like you'd all be ganging up on him, so my plan was for him to use a powerful fate technique to do this minor timeline split where you all fight your own version of Kurumo without help from anyone else then when they're all defeated the min-timelines reunite, so it'll be along those same lines)

----------


## igordragonian

sorry was sick hope to catch up soon

----------


## Rater202

Yeah, I got nothing.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah we're going through one of those slow periods. I've been playing a lot of videogames and try to write my own things lately as a result.

should we try and get Ing and igor to hurry up or something else?

----------


## Emperor Ing

I'll get a post up later today, i've been waiting on Rater.

----------


## igordragonian

it mostly me, waiting to be super inspired, because in this game I want to give my best.
I'll try to reply soon

----------


## igordragonian

sorry to annoy, just making sure I follow- did you leave out Kuromo for story telling reasons, or OOC-ishly forgotten?

just want to know, because you know

----------


## Lord Raziere

> sorry to annoy, just making sure I follow- did you leave out Kuromo for story telling reasons, or OOC-ishly forgotten?
> 
> just want to know, because you know


I forgot that part. I'm going to edit it again and figure out whats going to happen with him.

Edit: now it is done, thanks for telling me.

----------


## Emperor Ing

I kind of want to wait for either Rater or Igor before I post.

----------


## Rater202

> I kind of want to wait for either Rater or Igor before I post.


Android 10 got bored and took a nap.

If there was a response to that I missed it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Android 10 got bored and took a nap.
> 
> If there was a response to that I missed it.


alternatively I'm more okay with people attacking Solitus now.

----------


## Rater202

> alternatively I'm more okay with people attacking Solitus now.


If you'd like me to have wake up, wander off, and go harass him for a while I'm up for that.

Though she's really not the kind of character whose meant to be solving big problems.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> If you'd like me to have wake up, wander off, and go harass him for a while I'm up for that.
> 
> Though she's really not the kind of character whose meant to be solving big problems.


I didn't say you have to use Android 10.

I feel like I have screwed up things with you and want to try to avoid that in the future if your characters are literally doing nothing.

----------


## Rater202

The deal was that Oxy and Poka would go into the time chamber, come out at Super era levels, and then be forced to temporarily leave the timeline by the time patrol for the fear that two High-Level divine Kis coming out of nowhere could trigger the Trombone Issue to go hot before it was supposed to and risk the break of quarantine.

Diamond and Monesco really are not on the level to fight Solitus and honestly don't have much planned until PCJ makes it to Plant since that's basically what Diamond is preparing for.

IT's either use Android 10 or contrive a reason for Oxy and Poka to leave the time chamber early and then not be immediately put on a bus until the rest of the group catches up to their power level.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> The deal was that Oxy and Poka would go into the time chamber, come out at Super era levels, and then be forced to temporarily leave the timeline by the time patrol for the fear that two High-Level divine Kis coming out of nowhere could trigger the Trombone Issue to go hot before it was supposed to and risk the break of quarantine.
> 
> Diamond and Monesco really are not on the level to fight Solitus and honestly don't have much planned until PCJ makes it to Plant since that's basically what Diamond is preparing for.
> 
> IT's either use Android 10 or contrive a reason for Oxy and Poka to leave the time chamber early and then not be immediately put on a bus until the rest of the group catches up to their power level.


Whatever feels comfortable to you, I just don't feel its real fun to you to be stuck doing what is essentially nothing and wish I could change things so you can have more fun.

----------


## igordragonian

I don't want to annoy you Rater. I don't see why their power boost would be THAT extreme.
And power levels are just numbers.
You don't HAVE to do it this way.

----------


## Rater202

Power levels _aren't_ just numbers.

Numbers are used to measuring them, but it's demonstrated multiple times that a higher power level is a major advantage.

The power boost would be that big becuase they're spending 6 years training literally non-stop and are already at beyond Cell Saga power levels in response to an existential threat with a power level fifty times that of Super Perfect Cell.

The only other option is to retcon PCJ's power level and if we did that we would have to go back and redo several months of gameplay, and that's not something I'd like to do.

In general, retcons are bad. Change a detail that already happened and you have to change everything that comes after it and nobody has time for that crap.

----------


## igordragonian

From what I have seen, (dragon ball, dragon ball z, gt, super)
Numbers are tools for hype

("Over 9000!!!")
I doubt the mangaka can give hard numbers, and I dont think they were meant to be treated like hard math d&d.
This is also part of the reason it's very hard to make crunch roleplay for DB.
Yes. Power *scale* is a thing. But it's thematic thing.
Part of the reason i think freeform work well for animes in general and dragon ball especialy, because, it focus around the theme.

Speifacly, how can they train there for six years? Isn't there limits for this
And more impotantly, if you like Oxy and Poka, don't you want to ctually roleplay them?

It's your characters, of course, I simply think you over thinking minor details to the point it ruin your fun

----------


## Lord Raziere

> From what I have seen, (dragon ball, dragon ball z, gt, super)
> Numbers are tools for hype
> 
> ("Over 9000!!!")
> I doubt the mangaka can give hard numbers, and I dont think they were meant to be treated like hard math d&d.
> This is also part of the reason it's very hard to make crunch roleplay for DB.
> Yes. Power *scale* is a thing. But it's thematic thing.
> Part of the reason i think freeform work well for animes in general and dragon ball especialy, because, it focus around the theme.
> 
> ...


Pretty much.

its kind of why the mangaka stopped giving hard numbers after Freeza saga, people were taking them too seriously. like why could Tien Shin Kikoho Semi-Perfect Cell into the ground, but Piccolo couldn't do anything about him? Piccolo should be more powerful than Tien at this point given the fusion and training and being someone who fought harder battles than Tien in Freeza saga, plus Piccolo's regeneration, he should be a more suited candidate to buy time against Semi-Perfect Cell than some guy who expends his life force each time he fires his ultimate attack meaning Tien's last stand should logically be less effective than Piccolo just being annoyance and constantly getting in Cell's way.

but instead someone weaker than Piccolo using an attack thats impractical to hold someone off for long periods of time did what Piccolo couldn't, a person who regularly trains with _Goku_ at this point, who has killed two saiyans and fought freeza on equal footing in one of his forms and has two fusions on top of that. and the fact that Semi-Perfect Cell absorbed 17, who beat up Tien when Tien faced the androids before Piccolo got fused, so Tien didn't get any upgrades over Piccolo to justify any strength enhancement

oh how about Ultimate Gohan, who was MORE POWERFUL than Super Buu when he showed up, but somehow could not break out of the absorption thing Super Buu used on him, even though if he is more powerful, he should be able to do that no problem. I mean the piece of Buu is just that, a  piece, it should be WEAKER than Super Buu itself since it a piece of him, so how did Gohan not break out of a piece of an opponent that was already weaker than him?

So if we're really being consistent about power levels, Cell should've shrugged off Tien's attacks like nothing, killed him, found 18, ate her before Vegeta and Trunks could get there, kick both their asses anyways, and it wouldn't have made a difference, though if we're really being consistent, then Gohan who trains less than Goku should logically not be as powerful as Goku and Goku should've taken the win anyways- assuming all his training even pays off and they don't just all die to Perfect Cell. We know that training matters more than birth. 

While Ultimate Gohan should've trounced super Buu easily, shrugged off the absorption and defeated him then resurrect everyone with Namek dragon balls.

but nope, none of that happened, because power levels are bull. peoples abilities to destroy this or that are often nothing but hype for how strong they are, because its in the shows nature to just make every threat bigger than the last because going down from something big can be seen as "too easy".  when really there is no logical reason why you can't go down and have a less high-stakes plot while still posing a danger to the protagonists, and there is no reason to assume that power is so linear and one dimensional.

quite simply power levels is one dimensional and its preferable to have more dimensions to your combat than the raw power one. its bad writing to actually assume they're serious measure of power, because it offers very boring possibilities especially for a roleplaying game.

----------


## igordragonian

Mmmm.yeah.
And if you include Super, then you get Krillin standin against SSB and so on.

Raziere- actually in the recent arc at the manga, the villian, raw power wise is weaker then fat buu. But it's actually quite intense.


P.S.
In One Piece there is the bounty system, which embrace the number as theme, rather then actual measure.
For example, the guy who turn out to be probably the last antgonist, started the story with 0 bounty, and now has over 2.5 billion.
Because bounty represent how much of threat they are *considered* and it always leave room for speculations if the bounty justified or not.

Btw, tried to sketch "buff" Vodkana.
(Even if it won't be "cannon", it's fun to draw many versions of her)

https://i.ibb.co/TRZggkg/20190725-011417.jpg

----------


## Rater202

I give you Rose Soliel: True Oxy and Transcended Demon God Poka.

----------


## Rater202

Gonna wait and see if anyone else replies first.

----------


## Rater202

Raz, uh.

with Solar Flare x100 there wouldn't be any Shadows for Solitus to hide in.




Incredibly intense light. Removes all darkness.

That was kind of the point, Oxy was trying to Force Solitus to come out and fight like a man.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Oh right.

Sorry. 

I'll edit.

how do you like the Jormungandr Engine fight by the way? I'm trying to come up with ways to challenge planet busters and gigantic planetary super-weapons seem to be a good way to go, especially since thats what Kirby seems to face sometimes.

----------


## igordragonian

I like it quite a lot.
I actually always want stuff like that for Dragon ball stuff
More stuff to destory! Woho!

----------


## Lord Raziere

glad someone likes it, universes like Dragon Ball and DC keep making these world-destroying heroes and such, so why haven't you made big super weapons that require planet-busting to destroy? make things big enough that your world-destroying kamehameha actually has a USE for once.

also I think I got an appropriate  kind of super form that makes sense for regenerators like majins and such:

you know the pokemon moves, Bide, Payback or Flail? its like that.

except as a super form.

----------


## igordragonian

Yeah, exactly.
I had imagined EVIL artifical planet. But the Jormungad work better. And actually, Vodkana can be Sonic, which also work well with it.
I plan the battle against with Trombone to be galaxy shattering, with warriors sent crushing through planets.
I am sure we are all here for huge blasts and BOOMS.
Anyway yeah. It's great. 


Btw, So Solitus isn't only a Solar, now he is a Sidereal?
(This one charm made me laugh aloud)

----------


## Lord Raziere

Nope. Solitus is pure solar Exalted. Zenith Caste. he is just so good at giving speeches, he has learned a martial art where he turns his words into katchin walls. He basically has Supernal Presence 5, Martial Arts 5 (Voice of the King Style), and at least an excellency in all other skills. In Exalted he'd be the perfect kind of Solar villain for a Dragon-Blooded game. Though he'd probably have Integrity 5 and loads of charms from that to make sure people can't change him from being the "perfect" person he is as well.

Kurumo and Shanakan are the Sidereals in this equation. both with Martial Arts 5 (Constellations of the Zodiac Style), Duck Fate and Awareness charms.  

As always, I'm not at all sure what Jade is for anything. She has somehow occupied this weird place in my mind where she can potentially be dropped into any setting and have something to do to there, but have no exact place where she fits into said setting. (but then again I seem to have trouble with imagining characters in terms of skill-set  in general)

----------


## igordragonian

I think it actually make Jade into a good character- she is more then the sum of her abilities and techniques.
Beside the cosplay style is vwry creative.
I guess it's sort of Lunar ability?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I think it actually make Jade into a good character- she is more then the sum of her abilities and techniques.
> Beside the cosplay style is very creative.
> I guess it's sort of Lunar ability?


Well the Lunars does fit Jade more than other Exalted in their methods, values and philosophy, and while others can be argued to fit, Lunars probably fit the most.

and I think your right- she does transcend her abilities in a way. though at the same time, Referential Cosplay Style is very iconic to her and she'd likely develop it or something similar to it wherever she goes. In the world of Exalted, Lunar shapeshifting would probably be the closest in the world of Creation, but not exactly. Beryl would be her Solar mate.

I've been thinking of drawing the capsule guns that Team Jade uses.

----------


## Rater202

Just a quick poke because it's been a bit.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I was waiting for Ing.

but okay, lets see what we can do....

replied. in other news:

*Spoiler: SSBU Sans Costume Cosplay*
Show


This Cosplay is a cosplay of a costume, and thus weaker and less thematic connection to the real Sans, but allows for more accessibility and people to use the more basic and obvious of Sans abilities. Nor does it impose the more strict and harsh of Sans Cosplay limitations or requirements. Thus anyone can wield it, there is no limiting your PL to 1, and you can use it without having to re-invent your entire fighting style. Its shallower, has no Karmic Retribution, no teleportation, but is more practical and widely usable by most people. 

Weaknesses:
-Sans Cosplay (Its a pale shadow of the real thing)
-Melee Attacks (Its a ranged attacker)
-Vriska (predates him) 

Dodge!:
The user gets better at dodging.

Gaster Arm Cannon:
The cosplayers right arm is covered with a Gaster Arm Cannon. they can only fire their ki attacks, as well as the big gaster beam from it and nowhere else.

Bone Zone Flurry:
Fires various quick bone-like attacks from their arm cannon at very fast speeds.

Blue Heart Gravity:
Cancels and counters flight. Unlike the real cosplay one can't knock them around with this ability and must learn do that with telekinesis separately.

Bad Times Tune:
The user gets a x10 power boost whenever Megalovania is played within earshot. Does not work with the Homestuck or Halloween Hack versions, as this ability only works on Megalovania being _misused_ as badass beatdown music for Sans.

----------


## Lord Raziere

before I post next reply, how much would people like the idea that since Majins are Genies, and genies in old myths had elements attached to them, that these primordial elements are from Majins much like Kid Buu but different that were captured into various ancient household appliances at the dawn of time and are source of these primordial elements of fire and ice? because I randomly came up with these strange majin ideas one day and don't know where to fit them or if I should include them in the roleplay at all:

*Spoiler: Strange Majins picture*
Show






no real ideas beyond that though. while the child-like ones would all be some variation of kid-buu like mentality, Orbiko I'm not even sure of anything about aside from the picture. 

if you don't like them, I can just say the primordial elements are just elements and have no particular source or anything, its fine.

----------


## igordragonian

I like it. And in general, like crazy and creative ideas.
And I think as a group in general this is our thing.
We dont have Sayians protagnists, I think, because their evoulation is the most linear.

If it matters you have my ok.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Thanks Igor. I'm just gonna go ahead with it then, if Rater and Ing are just going to be silent about it. they're not going to be anything immediate, but the're going to be things that are there and can potentially be interacted with at some point, and maybe something will come out of it.

----------


## Rater202

So, no reaction from Abdroid 10 burping the warring primal elements back up nto the guardian's face?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So, no reaction from Abdroid 10 burping the warring primal elements back up nto the guardian's face?


did she move to keep up with the robot heading towards the edge of the solar system to be beyond the supernova radius? also didn't you say that it probably didn't mean much in the power scales we had? I assumed that it wouldn't have an effect or whatever by the description. I guess I could try and make one if you really want, won't guarantee it'll matter....

----------


## Rater202

I noted that she was moving to continue the conversation.

I wasn't expecting much but I was expecting some kind of reaction.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I noted that she was moving to continue the conversation.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much but I was expecting some kind of reaction.


It has been edited for a reaction. I apologize for not doing so.

Also hm: if Buu= Kirby, perhaps a Majin based on Marx from the same franchise?

----------


## Rater202

Just checking in since it's been a bit.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Cool.

just to review heres the ideas for various sagas so far:

*Trombone Saga:*
Igor is going to do this at some point, Ing has some plans to mix it with doing that WH40k crossover saga as well?

*Majindroid Saga:*
because executive Kalzin is still a thing, and Orkomajin 45 technically comes from there. don't know where to put it however.

*Android 24 Saga:*
I want to do this at some point, but its going to be pretty high-powered, grimdark and Jade-centric. also a bit of a finale to her story

I remember Rater wanting to do go to the Endless Cell Timeline as a sidestory at some point. Also Perfect Cell Jr and Onin are still here. I guess they are going to be the last battle regardless now. oh well. I don't think I'll ever get the drawn out fights I want at this rate....

as for the majins I made, if I'm going to do that as a saga its probably going to mostly be a less a serious arc because of the way majins just ARE. like they're going to be exaggerated embodiment's of forces of nature and physics as playful wild children for the most part. still figuring some things out there. 

I was waiting for Ing to respond to my post, but I'll respond now.

----------


## Rater202

The plan as I understand it was that Oxy and Poka would be at "Super" level when leaving the ITme Chamber and that they'd be retired until the rest of the cast caught up.

the plan was also that Oxy would be int eh chamber for the full six days, however, but I'm still operating on the assumption that Oxy and Poka will be pulled aside as previously discussed after Solitus is defeated.

Was gonna have Diamond take over as my main PC, have Monesco take over Poka's role, and Android 10 take over Diamonds original role as the support character who helps but rarely does much of direct consequence.

Diamond is, as previously established, currently preparing for PCJ to show up on New Plant.

----------


## igordragonian

Rater: who is Monesco again?
And again, you really dont have to take Oxy out of the story, if you like him.



Raziere- Majindoids sounds like fun. Should I avoid using Buu in the Trombone saga?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Raziere- Majindoids sounds like fun. Should I avoid using Buu in the Trombone saga?


Not at all. Majin Buu was just one Majin locked away. I'm not sure what element compared to the rest, but its probably best to keep it ambiguous or blank for generic majins or whatever.

as for the Majindroids, I kind sorta got something figured out for them? the idea with the Majindroids is that Kalzin is more radical and risk-taking of a businessman than Deglargo, so while Deglargo was being conservative with how he would present the Unkillables, Kalzin will have basically made weaker majindroid variations that basically all serve as maids for people throughout the city he is in that probably have to be fed by those cookies made from people that majins can make, that his improvement upon the super-soldiers aspect is to focus on the emotionless weapon deal since that was recorded to be the successful with buyers, and thus have only one or a couple majindroid super-soldier that is reliable, but since Kalzin is a sexist pig, he made this personal harem of majindroids out of harem anime cliches programmed to have memories of him so that they love him, trying to make him his own protag-kun as if in a harem game and its just messed up in all sorts of ways.

----------


## igordragonian

I really hope, the post is ok, and that I managed to make sense out of it.
Tell me, if something is wrong.





---

On other note.. I undersrand we are about to finish the arc?
So questions for my arc..
If you have children-teen characters you wish for a storyline, that is sort of like GT but with a dark twist, and will get to warhammer 40k, please tell me.

Next, if you have characters, that you want to include into the Twin Fist Tournament Arc I plan, please tell me.
If you have 'red shirt's it might be helpful.

And how long do we want the next time skip?


And Ing- do you imagine Vodkana and Hailing having a future together?

----------


## Emperor Ing

Ixil's technology is a little tougher than that, and won't be taken out in one punch.

Hailing and Vodkana do possibly have a future together, I only say 'possibly' because a lot of the hedonism that attracted Vodkana to him in the first place won't be present, after he's released from the Heart of Arcos.

----------


## igordragonian

> Ixil's technology is a little tougher than that, and won't be taken out in one punch.
> 
> Hailing and Vodkana do possibly have a future together, I only say 'possibly' because a lot of the hedonism that attracted Vodkana to him in the first place won't be present, after he's released from the Heart of Arcos.


Well, Vodkana also changed, after turning into Pure Stormart Nyagato, even if it is for e brief moment.
She had quite hectic journey through madness to enlightment here, so maybe it can work.
I guess their species, can't reproduce, and as GoD, Vodkana CAN'T, but maybe a clone with a mixed genes.



edit-
Raziere- did absorbing the pride, worked at all?

----------


## Emperor Ing

If Beerus could reproduce, resulting IN Vodkana, then Vodkana could, at least in theory, as well. The other question is if Nyagato and Arcosians are sexually compatible enough to produce viable offspring. Strictly speaking, this should be impossible, but it's a very common sci-fi trope for species evolved on completely alien biospheres to be able to produce viable offspring. The existence of half-saiyans like Gohan in the dragonball universe is proof of this.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> edit-
> Raziere- did absorbing the pride, worked at all?


oh right sorry, I'll get right to that. hm....probably not? Solituses Egomania and thus Pride is kind of unlimited. its probably like trying to empty the oceans with a cup. 

Its been edited. Yeah, sorry, Solitus willpower wise is pretty much unbreakable when it comes to his pride. you can kill him but you can't take his Pride. if anyone was able to take his pride or aater it, he would not have become the person he is today.

by the way I just noticed...

In Future Trunks timeline:
Trunks is born
Goku dies from heart virus
two androids attack on a certain date
all the Z-fighters are killed
Piccolo and Kami die thus the dragon balls stop working
Gohan loses an arm saving a saiyan from an android
Cell is killed prematurely before he can become a threat, by Trunks

in the Android/Cell Saga:
Trunks is born
Two androids attack, but not the same ones
Goku still suffers from the heart virus but doesn't die
all the Z-fighters get beaten by the androids in some way shape or form but don't die 
Piccolo and Kami fuse, thus the dragon balls stop working, thus they have to get a new keeper
Cell is killed prematurely before he can become a threat, by Krillin
Goku dies to Cell blowing himself up
Gohans arm gets broken saving a saiyan from an android

all the events of the Future Trunks timeline technically still happen in the main one, just in a different order and in shifted played down ways that can be recovered from and at the end of the Saga, Goku is still dead. almost as if time didn't really care _how_ the events happened or what the consequences were as long as they checked the box off.

----------


## igordragonian

Ing-
Well, it's actually a subject I gave a lot of thought into. (And I think has discussed it with Raziere via PMs)
Vodkana shouldn't exist. But she HAS to.
U13 is sort of clone of U7, and on the long run  we can't have two identical Beeruses because of Cosmic reasons.
So, sort of "survival insincts' of U13 itself pushed toward creating Vodkana, who can grow fast enough to replace him, before Zeno decide to delete it.

There are two.possible interpitations about GoD ability to create.

One- They CANT. And Vodkana is an anomaly.
Second- they are FORBIDDEN. I guess power splitting concept that any functional rulling system should have.
What do you think?


Raziere-
Yeah, I figured. I'll see the edit soon, and reply soon. 
I did wrote the option of it to suceed under question in my reply, just wanted to know what came out of it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Also I should tell you guys my ideas for Makai in the next saga:

currently these are the three Makaioshin:

1. The Makaioshin of Desire
2. The Makaioshin of Necessity
3. The Makaioshin of Undeath

This is in order from most to least strongest, and while basically both Necessity and Undeath are trying to change the status quo of the universe, Desire is perfectly fine with it as is, as his plans don't rely on the status quo changing. But the Solitus plot was definitely the work of the Makaioshin of Undeath and while anti-ki is his invention, and while he benefits from Trombones attempts at rebelling, I'm leaving it up to Igor whether he specifically planned for something like Trombone to happen if or he just planted the seed for something like to spring up. 

The Makaioshin of Necessity is essentially an extremist utilitarian given a blank kingdom to rule and build as she fits.

also, I plan on making a Demon of Envy whose backstory is basically "what if someone tried to live up to Jade Refera's example, failed then grew envious of her to the point where she somehow tries to become and replace her so SHE can be the hero instead." 

and that basically, Undeath will try to take advantage of the Trombone situation next arc.

also finally I would be thinking that Desire Makaioshin would be Makai's equivalent to Beerus- complete with a spoiled demon daughter who wants to kill Vodkana for being more popular than her or something.

----------


## igordragonian

I feel like I am not coummuncating how the Stormart techniques work.. but at this point it's not a big deal.

----
The Makai sound like fun.

Hmm. I guess Trombone might have been manipulated in some subtle way.
Might explain how his spiritual joruney went so wrong.

---

Edit: Also I would like to know your opinion about a time skip.
I personally preffer 10-11 years, to make HailXkana child relevant in some way. 
I also imagine calmer Vodkana, but still building herself as 'saint-gangster', damage managing as her rule, keeping on the shadier parts of the universe, under the assumption, that such placed will always exist, but she can control how bad it will be.

Also, Rater-Which would be your main characters?
And in general who of your characters and "Npc's will joib the Twin Fist Tournament?
Those who has proven themselves as heroes have a chance for invitation.
Annnnd, I had plotline for Equestria, I guess to abandon it?

Also, Ing, I want to close up some detail about the Warhammer Arc. You preffer via Pm?

----------


## igordragonian

Beside the fact, I am waiting for answers, who is Arkea?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Beside the fact, I am waiting for answers, who is Arkea?


Agh, I really should make character sheets and such for this...

Arkea is an Apprentice Supreme Kai. She has time martial arts. she helped Max take down some Trombone cultists that Kurumo tried to pin the blame on to evade suspicion on him?

Deus is another supreme Kai apprentice, he has matter-based martial arts to the point where he is the first to that can successfully make planets and life.

Yewah the third of these and has space martial arts. and thats pretty much it.

If your asking for my opinion on the timeskip:
Yeah, 10-11 years sound good, I was planning on Jade starting her own dojo or school for martial arts on Earth to teach people how fight and be good protectors by the next step time skip and this would be the time to start. and basically she'd be the All-Might to their My Cosplay Academia

there would also probably be some Jade imitators around by then, people who grew up hearing her heroism and exploits and while having her own identities are trying to replicate her success in a way.

----------


## Emperor Ing

So I just realized in both description and function, Veru'nas quantum fields, the ones that randomly teleport your atoms to anywhere in the universe, could be argued to be destruction energy.

_The Veru'nas have synthesized the power of the God of Destruction!_

----------


## Lord Raziere

I mean in a sense?

but Destruction energy would actually DELETE the atoms. they just straight up wouldn't exist anymore. The random teleportation is more like replicating the function of destruction energy without using it, which is a pretty cool trick.

It does mean Jade is fighting against a destruction god stand in, in a way. and such a technology would be a good training for fighting one, oddly enough. now just extend those quantum fields to surround an entire person and you have a god of destructions defensive cloak ability that Toppo used that makes you untouchable because everything gets destroyed by it.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Fair enough. Still, it's kind of funny the Veru'nas have replicated something similar enough to destruction energy, and did so by _complete accident._

Given enough time, they could create complex and sophisticated constructs with quantum fields, much like how they are able to with hard-light and hard-tachyons. Fortunately, they're limited to very simple shapes, for the time being, and Ixil has no intent on using them against Jade.

----------


## Lord Raziere

also I'm roleplaying how the apprentice kais are trying to keep things from escalating or devolving, but also because thats they are supposed to function: through the rules.

also me throwing out the precedent thing and bringing up Whis are supposed to be lifelines out of this, an out. basically looking up precedent would be a way for us to decide OOC whether there was actual precedent in U13 for that kind of thing, and work out a solution based on that

while the Whis solution would basically be to show up mysteriously, fix the two messes Oxyribo is worrying about easily then pronounce that _no one_ is currently worthy of being even a Destruction apprentice, simply because no one is powerful enough for Whis himself to even begin training them, because power is the only actual technical capability one needs to be a god of destruction, the rest are soft skills that you just hope people have. 
this is because Whis only approaches Goku and Vegeta, offering them the chance when they are like, post-Buu levels of power. which means the process is very much a "wait and see what powerful fighter arises naturally THEN offer him this" kind of deal without particularly caring about any other traits or characteristic they have, when if would be earlier, Whis would be much more active about it, when he clearly isn't.

----------


## igordragonian

Mmm. Yeah.
Though, Vodkana pushing to other kind of managment.

About my questions- Ing? Rater?
It's not one off adventure, I really need your input

----------


## Rater202

I'm having a bit of trouble with my PC right now so expect my posts to be infrequent.

----------


## igordragonian

Did I do something wrong? I can edit what ever that is an issue..

----------


## Rater202

No, my personal computer is on the fritz so I can only come online briefly.

Edit: Back online

----------


## igordragonian

> I feel like I am not coummuncating how the Stormart techniques work.. but at this point it's not a big deal.
> 
> ----
> The Makai sound like fun.
> 
> Hmm. I guess Trombone might have been manipulated in some subtle way.
> Might explain how his spiritual joruney went so wrong.
> 
> ---
> ...


Guys? Beggings?

----------


## Rater202

I don't much like the idea of a time skip.

----------


## igordragonian

Ok. This was a very tiny bit helpful. 
Can you elobarate, explain your preffers, so we can come with a statifyinv soluation?

Like...
I want a timeskip, to express the aftermath of Solitus's war, Vodkana married with a child.

If you can tell me, why you preffer not to time skip, maybe we can think of something that can get all of us the results we wish

----------


## igordragonian

I am more and more doubt my ability to tell the Trombome Arc story..


Raziere... did you missed Vodkana's speech of why she sort of making sense, maybe?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I am more and more doubt my ability to tell the Trombome Arc story..
> 
> 
> Raziere... did you missed Vodkana's speech of why she sort of making sense, maybe?


Oh right. I forgot. sorry.

----------


## igordragonian

> Oh right. I forgot. sorry.


All good. If I understand, on the other front, things still going.

----------


## Lord Raziere

as for not wanting the timeskip....I don't get it Rater. timeskips like this are just how DB stories go, you have one rare day of pure god-like excitement then the rest are normal life. unless you can provide really good reasons behind why you don't like the timeskip, and why we all shouldn't do it, there is no reason to not move forward once the parts with Ixil then Onin and Perfect Cell Jr. are wrapped up.

you can't expect us to stop this just because of your personal problem, whatever it is. it needs to be all our problem as well for it to not happen, and its not a problem for me, its not a problem for igor, not sure about Ing, but unless he protests against it? *shrug* you don't get a say if you don't speak up, and if you don't speak up thats on you, since igor has been asking repeatedly.

----------


## Rater202

time skips are usually accompanied by people getting stronger.

The plan was to temporarily retire Oxy with Diamond taking over as my primary PC until the rest of the PCs got to Oxy's level.

Timeskip means there's no point in doing that.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> time skips are usually accompanied by people getting stronger.
> 
> The plan was to temporarily retire Oxy with Diamond taking over as my primary PC until the rest of the PCs got to Oxy's level.
> 
> Timeskip means there's no point in doing that.


well, sorry, thats your problem Rater. not anyone elses, because you should know how this works by now, there are timeskips, we have discussed this repeatedly and if you don't remember those discussions thats on you. if you don't listen to anyone and end up making plans by yourself that doesn't make sense with everyone elses plans, yeah your going to end up with things like this, because you don't work with us and don't compromise to make sure you can have some fun rather than none at all. thats not my problem, since you don't seem to like any solution I can possibly provide last time, so thats your problem to sort out.

I mean if igor really wants to solve this problem for you, they can just set it to whenever is a few months before Oxyribo returns but is within the same year and the entire arc can happen before he ever gets back, because honestly these arcs occur over a really short timespan, but whatever. its your fault if your not cooperating with everyone else, not ours.

----------


## Rater202

The whole point of retiring Oxy was a compromise after you disliked the idea of Oxy getting to Buu-Saga level powers to deal with Solitus and PCJ, who'd you'd made far too strong to defeat at their current level of power.

So, to recap: I'm wrong for valuing consistency and people getting stronger at a reasonable rate unless they need to and have an excuse instead of arbitrarily changing power levels to suit the story.

I'm wrong for not wanting to reset continuity with retcons.

And now I'm wrong for wanting to stick to the plan we agreed to months ago so we wouldn't have to retcon anything?

Is not wanting to write Android 10 as an adult after just introducing her as a child a valid reason for not doing a decade long time skip?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> The whole point of retiring Oxy was a compromise after you disliked the idea of Oxy getting to Buu-Saga level powers to deal with Solitus and PCJ, who'd you'd made far too strong to defeat at their current level of power.
> 
> So, to recap: I'm wrong for valuing consistency and people getting stronger at a reasonable rate unless they need to and have an excuse instead of arbitrarily changing power levels to suit the story.
> 
> I'm wrong for not wanting to reset continuity with retcons.
> 
> And now I'm wrong for wanting to stick to the plan we agreed to months ago so we wouldn't have to retcon anything?
> 
> Is not wanting to write Android 10 as an adult after just introducing her as a child a valid reason for not doing a decade long time skip?


I did not set it that powerful. you insist that I did and I tried to tell you that his power is what is needed to be a challenge, because power levels aren't something we can BE consistent WITH anymore, we don't know how they WORK past the Freeza saga! there is no canonical way to measure them past that point. unless your willing to do the work to make a simple system of power levels we can all understand that you like, that accurately reflects how power works in Dragon Ball, thats the end of it.

so you want this consistency? well your the one who cares, so do a universal power level write up, so that I know the guidelines for every level of power so I have some reasonable way to know what you want from this level or that level, because I can't read your mind and know what you want. I'm not doing it for you, your the one who wants this, so make it happen.

and I didn't plan on any arc after Solitus in this time, so....if we want to stick around here, we have to figure out what we're going to be doing in that time. and since igor clearly wants a timeskip, I'll do whatever work is needed to keep us here a little longer, since I clearly did not communicate that we'd be timeskipping again after this, but I'm not gonna promise any big arcs, just enough until we're ready for igor to start Trombone Arc.

----------


## igordragonian

Well, Rater, I happy that you have voiced your reasons. Now this is something that we can work with.

I was sure, that you want to play as Oxy, and this will actually will make ot easier

But if you want a soluation, I actually has.
Sort of. 
I don't want Vodkana to be main character in this arc, mostly because it w8ll he wierd to write major fightbetween diffrent characters of mine- for that, I can simply write a fanfic.

So, my idea, that I have discussed with Ing long time ago, but I want reconfirm that we are on the same page, is using cheesy GT idea, but this might work.

I'll spoiler it, because no one should know it IC.
*Spoiler*
Show


Trombone cultists kidnap Vodkana and turn her to a child. Still as powerful,but with no memories. Guided by Jalo. (The scientist assasian. He also discovered anti ki tech)
And this group is planned to be manipulated into getting through the Empurium, to break one of Trombone seals, and if needed to destory the Emperuim. 
We can add Oxy here. Or android 10. 




And in general, power level consistency.. to be honest? I never seen long lasting frenchise which keep it perfectly. Fans need to roll their brains out, how to make sense out of it.

Batman is the worst example- he can rival Darkseid, and not die from his beams, but random thug of Gotham can knock him out.
The truth is, heroes are strong as they need to be for the sake of the story, and so are the villians.
Good writer can mask it better then bad one.

We are group who does a lot of build up, but in the end, Dragon Ball is about flashy battles and flashy powerups.
We just want to be fancy about it, which is great.
The questions of us should be-
I want my character to be in such fight scene.
Now how do we do it, that it make sense and fun?
I also enjoy d&d and structured roleplays, but it's a diffrent kind of roleplay

I don't think Dragon Ball and most shunens are going to perfectly fit tight rule systemz.
It's about narrative.
And again, I apreciate your willing to talk, without it we can't solve anything.
So. Thank you. Let's keep discussing with outmost respect, and I am sure we can get a soluation everyone ok with, if not completly happy

----------


## Rater202

When I say power level consistency, I mean not operating under the assumption that e're measuring ourselves against the android Arc and then having to fight someone fifty times as powerful as Super Perfect Cell and thus 16.666666667 times as powerful as my strongest character.

Not being expected to pull a power up out of my ass to deal with someone who would squish my character like a bug would also be appreciated.

The whole point of having Oxy go into the chamber and then retire until later was to justify fighting the disproportionately powerful villains without having to retcon anything and without having to force you all to play catch up.

The time skip basically invalidates the need to have done basically everything I did in the past few months, becuase it was done under the assumption that Oxy would be going away for a good while and that this would basically be his sendoff.

I only introduced Android 10 to take Diamond's role as the support character since Diamond was being promoted to primary character.

----------


## Lord Raziere

and I'm sorry I didn't communicate that there was going to be a time skip after this rater, I just assumed that since this is Dragon Ball post Z, _that is just how things happen in this universe_. you have an arc,it takes place over like, less than a day most times then you timeskip a few years to the next arc because DBZ/Super actually has realistic training times unlike say, Naruto, MHA or whatever else which expect the protagonist to face off against a bunch of villains while they are thirteen or so in their first year while training to get new techniques within very short amount of times.

I was just being consistent with how the DBZ stories were being told when it came to that.

while for the power ups: its clear to me we're speaking different languages when it comes to that, because they mean different things to each of us, so I can't really know what to do when something like this happens, yes I guess retcons are bad from a consistency perspective,  and thus yours, its just my perspective is well.....who are we impressing with this consistency? there is no audience, but you clearly value it so I'll work with you on that.

the thing I don't get is why your so hurt over the consistency being violated? like its not as if I did anything personal to you, is it? like, is it insulting or offensive to you in some manner I can't yet comprehend? I'm a pretty chill person and don't really like holding people to uptight things, y'know. like the half the reason I'm playing freeform is because I can't really wrap my head around many  systems of roleplaying, and thus do not have confidence in my ability to stay consistent with them and don't want to tick people off by failing to do so. nor do I care for becoming some super-consistent rules/setting person for the sake of another, I don't have the energy or time for that.

and while I can understand how this ruins your plans again, we have to remember the old roleplaying adage that "no plan survives contact with the players". I've had to throw away my plans for how Solitus saga would work when you teleported right to him, even throw away my plans to have him be the final foe people face because of you. I'm sad that this happened, but *shrug* its a casualty of roleplaying my dude. most plans you make simply get scrapped by the opening moves of the other players. if you wanted everything to go exactly according to you own plans without anyone interrupting....thats writing, not roleplaying. so....either find some way or accepting or your just not going to be very happy with how most things in roleplaying go, I'm sorry to say.

----------


## igordragonian

Look, I can relate.
Like, I have created Snap, and I wanted to roleplay him, and tried for few weeks/month, just for Ing to tell.me, he doesn't know how to deal with him, and at this point, I stopped caring about the Verunian storyline.

I understand thos frustration.
But have you read my idea in the spoiler?

- - - Updated - - -

Or.maybe before Trombone.. we can make something that the equalent for a movie? Something between Solitus to Tombone?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Or.maybe before Trombone.. we can make something that the equalent for a movie? Something between Solitus to Tombone?


that could work. 

lets see....is there some loose stuff around.....

aha! remember Massax, the Weirdboy? the ork based upon MasakoX and made evil mirror versions of Starlight and Vodkana? and how he teleported away to maybe return and do something again?

Well perhaps he could come back with something like.....a mirror planet with some grand evil plan of what-iffery and we can call it: *Dragonball: Massax and the Planet of Mirrors*

or another loose thing is the whole situation on planet Earth, with various human groups not being happy with foreign alien intervention. we can do something different with that, something less actiony but more societal where the enemy isn't some clear foe but rather an entire society of people being against against godlike alien ki users and whatnot, things like that. something more along the lines of a superman vs a lex luthor or a x-men vs. the public opinion kind of story.

or, we can do the classic "tournament arc" with all the current characters, no need for a villain per se, just a bunch of competitions that aren't your usual tournament but instead do different things, like say a giant form competition, a fusion competition, super speed foot races around the globe, like say....a Dragon Ball Olympics you could say.

Or.....we can just do something completely silly and stupid like, crossing over with Kirby, or somehow stumbling upon evil Kryptonians, or I dunno, fighting a planeswalker from Mt:G, or some strange magic that puts us into some wildly weird and different situation or something? 

Or....I dunno....I can pull out some android 13 or cooler equivalent of the Unkillables being made by some other division of Deglargo Industries and you have to face bio-androids like....Cyan Grasshopper, Silver Mosquito, and Bronze Hornet. bit uncreative though, and I doubt Rater would like a bio-androids thing were Oxyribo isn't involved?

finally the laziest option would be to make some evil counterpart of Jade Refera and throw her at people out of nowhere. because thats what half the villains Goku faces are: evil versions of himself.

EDIT: or I can resurrect this old idea I had called "The World Destroyers Club", this club of planet destroyers who worship Beerus but aren't gods of destruction themselves that just go around destroying planets for sport while being completely posh gentlemen about it. foil to Vodkana and such.

any of these ideas sound good?

----------


## igordragonian

Many of those sound great to me.
Masakx could be relevant for devolping Bondlight more. She also supposed to be one of the dircetional Hakashins. 

How Earth deal with super ki users is something I can work with. Especialy with Lucifer and Fenrir who zupposed to be the first King of earth. I actually have a very movie-dragonball-ish idea for this-

It hinted that the anector of King Furry, _wished_ to be the world king..this actually was the whole.premise for Fenrir. So.. what if he go and does that?
Does it mean everyone mind controled to obey him? How does it work?
Maybe for many, it's anothet step too much- they were forced to unite by magic


It can't be this easy. Just an idea.

Dragon Ball olympic sound like a lots of fun.

Unkillables is something that could easily involve Vodkana, and I think it can speak to Oxy and his co.

World destroyer club sound like a fun as well.

----------


## Lord Raziere

On World Government Wish:
Well, I don't think its mind control exactly....that seems a little sinister for Toriyama. but Shenron WAS able to manipulate memories to wipe memories of Buu. but at the same time, its a known fact that King Furries family did this, so.....it can't be memory manipulation because then, people wouldn't remember them NOT being rulers.

so as far as the King Furry thing goes, I'm think Shenron just made an official looking palace in a place that seems world-ruling like, then changed a bunch of documents and uniforms and whatnot and so on, so that no one can really PROVE that these nations currently exist, and Furry has all the money necessary? like, all you legally prove is that the furries run a world government and that there used to be other nations, but you can't really say they exist now in a legal sense. at the same time, I doubt this world government truly singular. like modern nations that get that large have to delegate big portions of land to be ruled by representatives, there is no one way one ruler can effectively govern everything.

so in that sense, the world government would probably have a lot of mayors, representatives of this and that land and such while all answering to King Furry, and the military is united the world government, but all the representatives that King Furry probably meets with look suspiciously like meeting with diplomats at the United Nations? because Shenron is lazy and probably just went "yeah sure, okay, all these nations are now states of the world government ruled by you and no one can legally prove you aren't, bye." 

so basically? Shenron burned the original documents then gave King Furry all the money and legal power. because if a bureaucracy can't find the file for something, it doesn't exist to them. so effectively, the world government could be there, but the politics behind it might not change as much as you'd think, because just because it exists doesn't mean the government wipes out the cultures under it or the geo-political realities of the situation. but yeah them being angry bout being forced to united by magic even if its not by mind control is kind of something to explore.

On Massax:
cool. cool. if I were to be more detail about it, I'm thinking the planet of mirrors is something that massax just finds and uses to do some stupid mirror-and what-if obsessed plan involving amplifying his powers or whatever. just something fun and goofy probably, maybe looking into alternate possibilities, but it can't be TOO well-thought because he is an Ork, and he is stupid. don't expect teleporting right to him or blowing up the Mirror Planet to work though. 

On Dragon Ball Olympics:
I think it would be something like where what events we focus on would be the important matches and things we want to do rather than do the whole thing tediously, where we skip over unimportant matches and such so we can focus on what we want to see, instead of having a structure that could potentially lead to something boring. like if we want to see this or that event specifically we put as something to do, and everything else is background. 

On World Ender's Club:
I'll definitely have to figure out villains for that though, but I'm thinking the head of the club would be this high class lady who is smooth and cold in comparison to Vodkana and see Vodkana as some kind of heresy against the idea of destruction she has or something, while everyone else would each have their own methods of destruction and be connoisseurs of this or that method:
member one: I like destroying planets by pushing them into suns, just love seeing the looks on their faces before the plasma burns them to cinders
member two: I'm more of an implosion man myself hohoho....
I would have a lot of fun coming up with ridiculous names for each the members like..."Cadswallow Killsbury" things like that. 

overall, the latter three would be more fun and/or humorous but the humanity vs. supers one would be more deep and slow comic-book like.

----------


## igordragonian

I think those are great ideas, but we need Rater to comment on it.
And Ing comment on anytbing

----------


## Emperor Ing

Funny thing about the World Destroyers Club. I was thinking about the implications of an infamous Destroyer God being well-known throughout the known universe. The overwhelming majority attitude towards Beerus is basically "skrew that guy," but an unimaginably powerful, seemingly immortal guy who claims to be a deity, with tons of empirical evidence verifying his existence, would naturally lead to Destroyer Cults of innumerable variety. Some harmless, seeing the Destroyer as a reminder of their mortality, looking to Beerus as a source of inspiration and humility. Alternatively, a cult that seeks to improve the lives of both its members and those around them through positive works, which, naturally, includes cooking, if only to create a world Beerus may wish to spare from planetary annihilation.

Of course, more bloodthirsty and destructive cults exist, that seek enlightenment or salvation through annihilation. Perhaps they believe some transcendent truth exists through the act of hastening entropy. Perhaps they wish to do the work of the Destroyer God for Beerus, therefore sparing themselves or others the agony of destruction, by having it committed on THEIR terms. 

So the idea of a Gentleman's Club of Planetary Annihilators definitely works. Though this creates complications, with how Apfel single-handedly broke the Celestial Bureaucracy, by pointing out that mortals have broken the Gods' monopolies on Creation and Destruction.
*
They have 3D-printed planets!*

Also, the idea of anything called "Bronze Hornet" gives me the shivers.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I mean its possible they'd consider Apfel's efforts to be heresy and be angry about that? But honestly, the idea is more that they just enjoy destroying planets for the sake of it just as much as they worship Beerus. Like the idea is if they're worshiping Beerus for the sake of destroying planets, then they were probably the kind of people who'd enjoy destroying planets without him existing anyways. like the other possibility is their reaction to 3d-printed planets is "Capital, if I do say so myself! MORE TO KILL AND DESTROY!" could be a mix of anger and joy. also idea: a villain based on D'arby from Jojo' Bizarre adventure that blows up planets when you lose to whatever game he is playing.

To be Honest, I don't have much of an idea for the hypothetical 1.5 Unkillables other than "these ones actually break free themselves and be a menace all on their own" so *shrug* gonna have to work on that if we want it, but I'm not seeing much interest in that, and I just threw it out there as possibility.

----------


## Emperor Ing

Actually the idea I had with the World Ender's Club, was an invitation. Want to be destroying worlds on an official basis, with the sanction of Heaven? Depends how they react to losing some of their autonomy, and limiting their destructive urges to targets specified by a third party, possibly the Kais.

Also, I was just struck with an idea for the origin of the World Ender's Club.

*Spoiler*
Show


Thousands of years ago, on the planet [insert planet here,] a prophecy was written, of the day and the hour until the end of the world. All of this prophet's predictions were reportedly completely accurate, so it had been assumed that this one would be, as well. Civilization developed on this world. Technology advanced, as did martial arts, and ki users, though not common, were far from unheard of. However, new scientific and rationalist theories developed, that put doubt as to the veracity of the prophet's prior claims. This only increased, as the day of the end of the world approached.

The world's wealthy elite, however, took no chances, and blasted themselves into high orbit, remaining there for months as they awaited the end of their homeworld. On the anointed day...nothing happened. No epic ecological disasters, no astronomical phenomena, no wayward world-annihilating ki-blast sailing through the cosmos for billions of years. It was just another day. While this was met with some relief, especially among the servants, the elites were not amused, and even became angry. As the last minutes of the day ticked by, in a fit of rage, one Lord, both politically powerful and an exceptionally strong ki-user, fired an energy wave onto the planet, itself. While he wasn't strong enough to fully annihilate the planet, the resulting firestorm that eradicated all life and civilization on the world fulfilled the prophecy at literally the last minute. Though the servants were horrified and heartbroken, the Lord's peers found the destruction breathtakingly beautiful. From then on, they styled themselves the aristocratic elite of the universe, training themselves to be world-annihilators, for their own enjoyment, while looking to Beerus the Destroyer as the model for their highest aspirations.

----------


## Lord Raziere

....sure that origin can work.

as for invitation: hm. well the answer to that answer is, how would that be an arc if they accepted the offer to be controlled by kais? kind of ruins the point, doesn't it? that and from their point of view what enjoyment is there in destroying old boring planets or whatever?  they don't just destroy planets, they do a bunch of twisted eccentric things in the process that they take enjoyment in, they make into some twisted game/art/sport. so I don't know what other answer you'd expect other than refusal of their offer even if they accept the Kais invite to meet unless your planning on playing a few of the members yourself?

anyways, it seems that World Enders Club and....Human Society? are the two strongest contenders right now. so. we want to narrow it down to just one or do them both in whatever order?

EDIT: given that this was posted six days ago and no one has any opinions on that, I'll just assume both sagas are good enough and use them both, but with the Earth Strikes Back Saga being first cause we just got a lot of space sagas, we should swing back to an Earth one to maintain balance.

----------


## igordragonian

Have we started the movie/arc thing?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well not technically. first....

there is the problem of Perfect Cell Junior and Onin. remember those guys? they aren't dealt with yet, and there is supposed to be a bit of a weeks timeskip involved in that. I can't just skip time forward, because the battle with Jade and Ixil is still happening. and Ing needs to respond more to get Ixil stuff done.

so......can't really get moving, this stuff with  Yankar was just.....set up while Ing wasn't moving things along.

----------


## igordragonian

I guess I'll wait.
By the way, is there any chance I can use Snap for the movie-thing?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I guess I'll wait.
> By the way, is there any chance I can use Snap for the movie-thing?


Sure. I'm not planning this out super-rigidly or anything, I basically had to come up with this out of nowhere, I'm not going to care as long as its fun.

----------


## Emperor Ing

I was waiting for Rater, apologies for the wait. I'll get a post up soon-ish

----------


## Rater202

Who are we waiting on?

----------


## Lord Raziere

It seem we're waiting on Ing again.

so, what to do.....looks like I'm going to have to start reminding him more often.

----------


## Rater202

Diamond and Monesco were going to handle PCJ.

Diamond's been preparing for it basically since delargo ended excepting when Android 10 first popped up.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Diamond and Monesco were going to handle PCJ.
> 
> Diamond's been preparing for it basically since delargo ended excepting when Android 10 first popped up.


I know. its just that Masala remembering that is a good excuse to teleport to New Plant, check up on them and be told that in character and maybe have a more interesting conversation than just waiting around for Jade in some room.

Edit: NOTICE: I will be gone from Friday to Sunday for three days for a family near-christmas thing, and will not be able to respond until then, just letting you know.

----------


## Emperor Ing

I'll get a post up later today.

----------


## Rater202

> *Primal One:* Monesco's tribe didn't have legends about Super Saiyans. Instead, they have stories about Warriors who through long meditations on the moon have mastered the power of the Ozaru, being able to transform instantly into larger, faster, and stronger Great Ape forms without the need for moonlight and even draw upon the power of the Ozaru without Monesco's decision to Diamond led him to pursue the legend, and after a decade of training and meditation in a specially constructed synthetic blutzwave chamber, Monesco has achieved it. Monesco can transform into the Ozaru at will without needing a Full Moon or another source of Blutzwaves, having absorbed all he needs in the Blutzwave chamber. His great Ape form is one (giant) head taller than normal and is constructed more like a human body builder than an ape in terms of musculature and stance. It's twice as strong, fast, durable, and agile as a typical great ape of his power level. Monesco also _doesn't_ change into a great ape automatically, only when he chooses to even when staring directly at the full moon. *He rarely has a need to transform, however, as he's mastered it to the point that he can concentrate the Great Ape's power down into humanoid form. In this form, he grows a head taller and his muscles bulge out considerably. His power level is multiplied by ten, and his physical strength, speed, durability, and agility become almost twenty times what they'd normally be at his new power level as the power of the Great Ape is concentrated into a smaller vessel.*


Note: Monesco is not currently a great ape.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Note: Monesco is not currently a great ape.


Apologies. I'll edit.

----------


## igordragonian

is heaven again in action?
If so, I guess Vodkana has something to do?

----------


## Lord Raziere

yeah, sure. though you don't really need to wait for me to give you to do things? you can just....do them. kinda wish people weren't just waiting on me.

----------


## igordragonian

how much pages ago, should I read?
since Solitus's defeat, I thought I have nothing to do

----------


## Lord Raziere

.....I might actually have something for you to do. one moment, I have a post to edit, my latest one. it is now edited.

----------


## igordragonian

Alright..
I think I can reply. Just remind me, who is Monesco? And Cell Jr.?


Whaaaaat? (In a good way)

----------


## Lord Raziere

Monseco is a Rater character, saiyan of some kind. not sure of much else, so hope he fills you in better than I.

Cell Jr. is from a future where Cell won, made a bunch of Cell Juniors, they formed rudimentary society while wiping all other races and started basing their society on ranks in duels in their own arena system but of course this particular one has identity issues from facing prospect that he was only slightly different from all the other Cell Juniors and his father decided to do something to try and be original by going to a completely different timeline to make his mark in some evil genocidal way but now is having doubts due to people-mostly Artic- pointing out the flaws in his reasoning and him being intelligent enough to realize they have a point but has his suspicions that turning good might be just another form of copying or conformity to someone else. real big on thinking for himself he is.

----------


## Rater202

Monesco is a Saiyan from a tribal background who diamond saved the life of when they were children, prompting him to swear loyalty to Diamond and become his boyfriendbodyguard. He is the last of a tribe of black-tailed Saiyans and was the son of their war chief.

In his time working with Diamond, he's developed a martial art best described as a "style of no style" and has trained to master the great Ape transformation: He controls himself when he changes, doesn't change unless he wants to, his great ape form is physically bigger, faster, and stronger than most Saiyan's, and he's managed to, like the DBS version of Broly, gain the power of heeh great ape without transforming(though, like SSJ4 from Gt, this is by controlling it and compressing it down.)

----------


## Lord Raziere

> "So, does anyone else have no idea what's going on or what will happen even minutes from now and that making plans might be completely and utterly pointless? Anyone considering that we might as well just embrace a form of passive nihilism where we just go with the flow because nothing matters?"


Rater, please define what you mean by this.

Unpack. Be specific. I can't fix the problem if your going to act like this in character. What do you expect? how is this supposed to flow? What is the structure of how things are supposed to play out?

If its something I contradicted again, I'm sorry because this roleplay has been updating less often, there are massive gaps of months between something I did then and now and I don't always remember, I have things I do outside of this roleplay, and I can't expect to remember everything. do you value struggle or not? do you want characters to actually be complex and intelligent, able to change their mind and have inner conflicts, or do want them to be cardboard cutouts? do you want things ambiguous and able to go in multiple directions or not? I can't continue this until we have an agreement. I can't provide you the fun experience you want if you don't tell me what that is in full and do this passive-aggressive stuff that is near fourth-wall breaking.

if you want consistency, tell me what kind of consistency, what the rules of your consistency are, I'm fumbling in the dark to know what goes through your mind, because it feels like your expecting me to just know what you want without being communicated, its real confusing, I don't know what to do, and I feel like I'm failing you without knowing why, tell me whats going on here, because I'm just trying to do things and your not...responding to it. at least not in the way I expect and it makes indecisive because I don't how your going to react to anything. its really throwing me off. 

because I know we're both autistic/aspergers syndrome, and that we're bad at communicating, so I'm not blaming you for this, I'm probably making another mistake and treading upon another social-game rule thats mysterious to me and need proper educating upon, but I can't help until I'm told what the problem is, because you seem to have a better memory of things now than me, so I can't really hold myself to that anymore unless you help me do that, I'm not a perfect being who can automatically know what you want or need here. 

gonna have to give me something and its clear that a small correction isn't going to cut it anymore. I clearly need to make a major change in how I do this, but its not going to happen, if I don't know exactly what is needed to change.

----------


## Rater202

Mostly I'm just realizing that this is not the game to be planning thing's out in advance simply because it takes so long to get to them that whatever was planned doesn't end up happening.

I have no idea what's going on anymore and I'm honestly not sure if I should try and do anything because I don't know what other people are expecting to happen or are planning on.

I'm tempted to retire most of my characters and just have Android 10 as a nigh-omnipresent peanut gallery.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well....if thats the way you feel, I can't do anything about that. I'm sorry. Dragon Ball isn't really a good setting for.....a lot of things being consistent. at all. like on some level, its not something you take _entirely_ seriously. sure there can be serious moments and when things get real, it can get really real, but the default mode of Dragon Ball is:
"Hi I'm Akira Toriyama, former gag writer and person who plans absolutely nothing out so he can write by the seat of his pants, lets see what arc I can make out of martial arts, the last movie I seen, people with food puns for names and whatever convenient plot devices I can reuse today and possibly throwing in something from super sentai. Who's Launch again? Who cares, I'm gonna subvert something for no reason and have Goku take the win and everyone goes back to being happy a sunny peaceful earth with no problems."

like, lets face it, most of the darker stuff, sarcasm, logic and so I bring to this is just me thinking more deeply about this than Toriyama ever will. and as one player case proved, I'm probably not exactly the intended bright and happy tone people expect from Dragon Ball anyways. if we were really doing this 100% intended consistent Dragon Ball, Jade's whole responsibility and seriousness schtick wouldn't fly for the kind of comedy Dragon Ball does, Masala would be the irresponsible but lovable fighter in her place and much of the settings implications would be ignored. 

Because if the realization that Dragon Ball and thus its world and roleplaying is an improvised mess that doesn't hold up to logic doesn't allow to do anything.....sorry, thats a realization I've had long ago and I don't let that stop me from having fun, so whatever fun your having I can't really help you with because its clearly not to your taste. I'd like it if you could feel different but what you feel is what you feel, and if the improvised way its done is not to your taste....well it just isn't. I don't think I can do anything about it, so I hope you find fun somewhere else if that is how its going to be.

like if I could change the rules of the roleplay to be more consistent, I'd probably more rigorously define the power levels in terms of tiers and such, not exact numbers, figure out what makes Dragonball combat Dragon Ball and try to design maybe one or two rules to fit, things like that, but your clearly not enjoying yourself and if nothing I can do can help with that....well I think its something you just have to figure out yourself, find joy wherever you can. don't let me stop you from doing whatever your comfortable with.

----------


## Rater202

Hugs for everyone.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Igor, Ing, question: are you two still willing to keep on playing? because this roleplay has been flagging and just kind of chugging along now, Rater thinks its dead, so I just want to see if you guys still think so and are still up to it or not, and if its not I'll just write something to give closure for myself, and I just to know if we're still doing this roleplay or not.

----------


## igordragonian

I do.
I just sort of lost the thread after Solitus's defeat.
And from what I see vaguly, most of what left is tieing few nitty gritty details.

We wanted to make a short storyline for Rater's new-ish characters.
So I am In.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well to be honest, it sounds like Rater has left the roleplay? and I don't know where Ing is. so. its just you and me unless one of those two decide to speak up and actually post, rater's characters don't really matter all that much anymore.

so we don't technically HAVE to do those sagas. if we want we can just rap up our business here and time skip another ten years or so. it all depends on whether you want to do the Humanity Saga and World Ender's Club Sagas for their own sake rather than doing it for Rater. I'm fine with either skipping them or not skipping them, so it all depends on what you want.

----------


## Rater202

It's more that I figured that what I was wanting out of the game wasn't what anyone else was doing and decided to just retire most of my characters.

Android 10 would just be popping around serving as either a peanut gallery or a gag character.

----------


## igordragonian

eh, so in conclusion what is going on?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well, whats going on is that PCJ and Onin are attacking Planet Plant. Jade sent a message to Vodkana about doing something to make them her sub-gods of destruction because I recall you wanting to do something along those lines for Onin at least, and since Rater doesn't want to fight them and is just being peanut gallery...while ing isn't here.....well...

do you want to say yes to said message, and like teleport there- remember that you have like that fake starlight and four kais to ask to teleport you there if you want- or do you just want me to warp this up my way and get tot he next arc/saga, and which should that be, as in which one are interested in doing next: Earth Arc, World Ender's Club Arc or timeskip to your Trombone Arc?

*I don't what direction you choose, so long as we get moving.*

----------


## igordragonian

mmm, with Ing, gone, and Rater only half heartily in...
I am not sure what to do.

Like, for example, Trombone Saga more or less is ready, with three acts with raising stakes and everything...
But, like, I have planned a plotline about Vodkana, which also involve her being married to Hailing, assuming he will play him.
And it was planned, also with Hawk in mind..


So, it's sort of just you and me?
Even to the current storyline,  it confuse me, how to aporach it

----------


## Lord Raziere

well if your confused enough that you can't pick a direction, then I don't see why I should burden you with the choice.

I'll just wrap Onin and PCJ up, then we can go do the Humanity/Earth Saga first then the World Ender's club saga to give you time to come up with alternate plans and time to think upon Trombone Saga so that you figure out something for it in case you still want to do it by the time they're both over.

----------


## igordragonian

You know what? I dont want to miss Onin.
I started lately to watch DBzA and had my muse back...
I'll reply hopefully today.

Mmm.. about Trombone Saga, my biggest issue is the tournament part.
Originally,I have imagined each of us displaying lots of fun characters, big and small, with an epic battle in the end, which will be impactful to characters who are close to Vodkana.
Vodkana sort of have distanted herself from the others, so I mostly imagined Hailing and their kid.

The second act will probably also require redesign-
I have imagined universe scale WAR.

With many fronts- heaven, Equestria, Earth, Arcos, with scary bosses,which Majin Buu is only one of them.
Giving all players characters to shine, and have ridiculos new fun power ups.

Parallel to child hero group trying to do the begining of GT grimmly and darkly and fun.
But with only 2 active players, and one sort of feel as guest...

I am not sure how to do it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

look, worst comes to worst, and you still haven't figured it out by the end of the World Ender's club Saga, we can timeskip and I can do my majin saga to give you more time and to better establish how things will be by then. 

and hey its on them if they miss out. no matter the reason, its their loss. 

and it can be epic no matter how few players there is, trust me on this. making something epic is all about style, thats it.

----------


## Rater202

> I almost forgot since you look like an isekai protagonists wet dream those sick bastards.


For future reference, please don't make jokes like that.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> For future reference, please don't make jokes like that.


I will not, got it. Sorry that I went too far there.

----------


## Hawkflight

Hi everyone.

So, I have some explaining to do. A little over two years ago, my dad died, and it took a huge toll on me. For a while, I just dived into my hobbies and tried not to face the reality of the situation. But ... I wasn't having fun. And frankly, I think it showed. I took longer and longer to respond, until I just ... didn't. I kept thinking that I would reply tomorrow, so I didn't need to bother telling anyone. I didn't want to say that I was taking a break in light of my dad's death, partly because I thought I wasn't, and partly because that would, by necessity, involve talking about it. So one day I just ... disappeared.

It's been two years since I've been here, and I do want to get back into things ... if you'll still have me after this long. I really do apologize for leaving without notice.

----------


## Rater202

*Hugs for Hawk*

----------


## Hawkflight

> *Hugs for Hawk*


Thanks. It's difficult, you know? This is what I was doing when he died, so it still kinda reminds me of that.

Also, save the hugs for after the SARS-CoV-2 virus. =P

----------


## Lord Raziere

of course we will Hawk, death of someone like that is perfectly understandable. I was honestly wondering why you dropped off without a word, but thats super understandable

anyways, you missed a lot since you left. the Unkillables are on earth now, Kurumo and Solitus have...already been dealt with.... we're currently just trying to wrap things up with Cell junior and Onin. then we're gonna go into a less combat- focused arc called Human Society Saga, gonna be more society and down to earth focused, something different, not hectic, more social-focused do something different, like you planned with the uh.....Earth First Coalition? yeah kind of based on that. I even plan on putting Jade on trial!

----------


## Rater202

Most of my characters are currently semi-retired because of planning conflicts but I've got a smol adorable child with "whatever's funniest" levels of power serving as a peanut gallery and acting in social scenes.

In fight scenes, she eats mooks or drains power from raid bosses.

----------


## Hawkflight

Remind me who Onin is? And which Unkillables are on Earth? Are they there as liberated allies or as enemies? What's happened ever since we visited their HQ?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Remind me who Onin is? And which Unkillables are on Earth? Are they there as liberated allies or as enemies? What's happened ever since we visited their HQ?


Onin is the ancient legendary super saiyan who is trying to kill the rest of saiyans because he believes they are just as dangerous as himself when they go super saiyan, since he was the one who destroyed Sadala in reaction to the saiyan he loved dying to some accident. 

Unkillables are liberated allies, and uh....pretty much all of them at this point, all in Shining City, I just haven't been doing much with them because they're out of focus. though Crystal Firefly is probably establishing some base elsewhere to keep the full genetic potential of the bio-androids regulated as one of the terms of them being liberated is that they were modified to be mortal and their reproductive cycle is altered so that its unable to flood the universe with bio-androids real quickly.

their "HQ" is blown up. Deglargo Industries got destroyed in the ensuing battle, Deglargo himself is dead- no wait, double dead, he along with three other minor villains no seemed to care about after Solitus's soul was destroyed all got killed by Grey Spider to make sure loose ends got tied up. the other three were Val-Kagra, Meta-Tuffle and Lagerin. 

Kurumo is still alive, but he is imprisoned in a hell for his crimes. so is Spoon, but his hell is more of a holding cell until the kais can work out how to punish him permanently with Vodkana who was conflicted about it and Oxyribo was arguing to kill him at the time, so he was imprisoned temporarily to make sure they didn't come to blows over it, but now that Rater isn't really playing Oxy now, a conclusion on that might be done. 

also I forgot to tell you: Jade rescued Beryl from some aliens who kidnapped her along with an alien child of same race and Magnus from Wh40k, Jade then had to fake losing to an alien warlord because of socio-political reasons to prevent a race of gero-level geniuses from one day trying to conquer the universe, but given Ing hasn't posted in a while, I'm not sure how important that is anymore, also the Jade and her crew had to fight them without ki the entire time because of anti-ki tech that won't be used again so....*shrug* that happened.

----------


## Hawkflight

> Unkillables are liberated allies, and uh....pretty much all of them at this point, all in Shining City, I just haven't been doing much with them because they're out of focus. though Crystal Firefly is probably establishing some base elsewhere to keep the full genetic potential of the bio-androids regulated as one of the terms of them being liberated is that they were modified to be mortal and their reproductive cycle is altered so that its unable to flood the universe with bio-androids real quickly.


Which one is the one who's a mix of all of the PCs? And what happened to the super-powerful ones from the future?

My plan was that Starlight was knocked out because Princess Luna had to warn her about some sort of major upcoming threat, causing Starlight to have to train with her in the dream realm (in a hyperbolic sort of manner).

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Which one is the one who's a mix of all of the PCs? And what happened to the super-powerful ones from the future?
> 
> My plan was that Starlight was knocked out because Princess Luna had to warn her about some sort of major upcoming threat, causing Starlight to have to train with her in the dream realm (in a hyperbolic sort of manner).


Purple Moth is the combination of all the PCs about the time of Hailing's defeat except Masala, yes. I believe it was Jade, Beryl Vodkana, Starlight, Apfel, and Hailing himself? oh and Trombone Jr for the Namekian DNA, but not anyone else?.....yeah those are the six she is made of, had to recheck that. yeah she is on Earth, still sad as ever. should probably make a post updating what the Unkillables situation is.

as for Grey Ant? well it is destroyed because it was basically Yellow Queen 2.0 but refined to not have a personality or a soul beyond its programming, basically a hollow husk that all the bio-androids would've become if Deglargo were smarter about making sure their bio-androids didn't have a mind beyond their programming. it was destroyed in a combination attack, Yellow Queen is still alive though, but she getting modified to not be able to pull off the same overpowered shenanigans during that fight, that was a near grey-goo scenario there.

and yeah that could work. I might've forgotten where the Shenron is, as well as what happened to the Metalmen who assisted with Jade in rescuing Beryl so we can just say that the Metalmen are taking the Shenron back to Planet Plant with an unconscious Starlight to solve three problems in one. (apologies if I actually did solve those other two problems and am causing a continuity error).

----------


## Hawkflight

Okay, I'll probably have Starlight stop to visit Purple Moth first and foremost. Where is she right now, and what's she doing?

Also, who or what is Fakelight?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Okay, I'll probably have Starlight stop to visit Purple Moth first and foremost. Where is she right now, and what's she doing?
> 
> Also, who or what is Fakelight?


In Shining City, on Earth, the place Max Banders built

Okay remember how I made a stupid evil James Bond parody of Starlight aka Bondlight through an ork weirdboy named Massax that is technically a warp construct? and y'know how Vodkana for some reason took her in as a companion and leaned on her when everyone was angry at Vodkana for eating at a cannibal restaurant? well since then that construct has been gaining sentience and sapience and becoming more real somehow because thats how igor wanted to play it. thats who they are.

----------


## igordragonian

Welcome back Hawk.

Bondlight, is nourished to turn into a Hakaishin, Vodkana is working in full system of Hakaishins. 
Back to buisness anyway!

----------


## Hawkflight

*Spoiler: Raz*
Show

Question, are we still going forward with the EFC's spat with Deglargo, and their temporal cold war? What's the status of the temporal quarantine?

----------


## igordragonian

Wow. This brilliant begining Raziere.
Are you planning to involve the Hakai Bureau in this, or should I focus on my Earth characters?


And is there any sign for Ing?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> *Spoiler: Raz*
> Show
> 
> Question, are we still going forward with the EFC's spat with Deglargo, and their temporal cold war? What's the status of the temporal quarantine?


*Spoiler*
Show

I didn't do anything with that since I didn't want to update something that you were very involved in and thus have to miss in the interim, thus we can have it wherever it is or supposed to be. 

temporal quarantine.....that...some form of law to like.....outlaw time travel, right? in this time or was it the future?sorry I think I completely forgot about this. I think we'll to just say its wherever it works for what you have in mind.





> Wow. This brilliant begining Raziere.
> Are you planning to involve the Hakai Bureau in this, or should I focus on my Earth characters?
> 
> 
> And is there any sign for Ing?


thank you.
well some of Jade's crimes they're going to bring up is assaulting Spoon, assaulting Vodkana twice and kidnapping Vodkana when she was a minor while they were on Earth so......if you want Vodkana to be there at the trial to be a witness, probably going to be at least a little involved. 

I'll PM Ing to let them know a new saga has started, I'll move forward regardless- but if it causes him to come in with Apfel to do his politics thing in a saga full of it, great.

----------


## igordragonian

Thank you.
Also, if Ing around or isn't influence Vodkana and the Trombone Arc quite a lot.

----------


## Rater202

How does a government that didn't exist at the time have jurisdiction over things that happened before it formed?

And the assault on Spoon and "kidnapping" Vodkana, if I remember correctly, happened when they invaded a sovereign city-state so even if it was a crime it would be Oxy City's case, not this Government that didn't even exist at the time.

So why would Jade go along with it? It's obvious overreach and corruption.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> How does a government that didn't exist at the time have jurisdiction over things that happened before it formed?
> 
> And the assault on Spoon and "kidnapping" Vodkana, if I remember correctly, happened when they invaded a sovereign city-state so even if it was a crime it would be Oxy City's case, not this Government that didn't even exist at the time.
> 
> So why would Jade go along with it? It's obvious overreach and corruption.


I mean its only some of the crimes we could argue about, and why argue about out of character when there is going to be court talking about the VERY ISSUES you just raise? of course half the point of the trial will be figure out what crimes she can be judged by at all. this is very much a special case for more than one reason. 

as for why Jade would go along with it:
remember Hailing? how he thought he was above civilization and the rules? and how that wasn't okay well the logic is, if she doesn't stand trial for what she has done, wouldn't it be kind of hypocritical and thus be doing the same thing as him? especially when her current image of heroism is as someone who stood alongside Apfel who championed civilization mattering more than what a ki user can just sweep it aside. and unfortunately justice is more than just a personal thing, its something that society agrees upon applies to everyone, so shouldn't she be held to the same standard? if someone arrests her, shouldn't she be better than Hailing? and even if you say that is bull from an objective standard, the problem comes in is that its not objective: people have a subjective view of her, because society is full of subjective things that that may not match reality- if we can ever have a true view of it. 

even if the situation is different, it looks the same and therefore Jade resisting arrest might in fact destroy her reputation, which while isn't too big of a deal for herself- she is a ki user who can matter materialize anything she needs and defeat anyone who comes by- she is also a big time celebrity in the galaxy now who has done various charity stuff and and other grass roots efforts to help people in it, since she doesn't need money herself she donates it all to people who do. a scandal that gets to the rest of the galaxy that she hypocritically resisted arrest when she stood against a ki user like Hailing who oppressed everyone beyond the rules who also resisted arrest could hurt those efforts. and between Oxy city, Shining City and Earth First Coalition, some people on Earth might actually have the technology to provide evidence of that and make a story out of it to the rest of the galaxy.

so its very much a "she has a good name and she uses that good name towards good ends, but if that good name is tarnished, well, that could hurt a lot of people indirectly" even if you don't accept the philosophical reason why, there is a practical reason as well. in short: she isn't supposed to be above the law, because no one is supposed to be, and acting as if she is now will only hurt the thing she has going for her. this saga is very much supposed to be a "superhero stands trial/deals with society in general" kind of thing and I kinda wanted to do this and I'm not best expert at this so please don't try to hold me to something completely accurate? thats just not something I can realistically do. I have limits, I'll try to do the best I can, and I believe that Jade isn't really the most law-abiding of people given what she was done in the past, but hey I could be wrong. this trial is just the beginning though, there is more than just this.

I do wish that you'd just wait for these questions to be answered naturally in character though, but I will answer regardless however you want them to be.

----------


## Rater202

I'm just saying, from where I'm sitting it seems like they don't actually have the right to arrest Jade and thus are the ones making themselves look bad for arresting her. Jade going along with it just makes her look stupid.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I'm just saying, from where I'm sitting it seems like they don't actually have the right to arrest Jade and thus are the ones making themselves look bad for arresting her. Jade going along with it just makes her look stupid.


yeah that was the risk of it, I guess? the question is, if its stupid of her go along with it, whats her alternative? she can't exactly do a violence on legitimate cops and probably reporters and such to be witnesses to what she does. 

but then again, one can argue that getting a united government because of a wish on a dragon balls isn't and shouldn't be a legitimate form of government at all since its not done with the agreement of society. and Jade let Fenrir do that. so.....what can we consider legitimate about this?

like this is a government if she did not make happen, she at least allowed to happen because she made a wish to give ki use to Earth around the same time. so.... bit of a "actions coming back to bite her " kind of thing here

----------


## Rater202

I'm just saying, expect a mixture of threats and lampshade hanging from Android 10's commentary and a cameo of Oxy or Diamond watching and planning to invade if the obvious corruption isn't defeated.

Otherwise, I'm satisfied with those answers

----------


## igordragonian

I am in, just not sure how to reply.
Does it happen right away, or with a slight timeskip?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I am in, just not sure how to reply.
> Does it happen right away, or with a slight timeskip?


I mean jade herself is just going to try and find a place to set her own little school of martial arts on Earth before this happens. it wouldn't be something Jade would mind having others along with since everyone assumes its just relaxing and touring places to find a good place, so if you want Vodkana to come along you can just assume she texted vodkana or something to do that. and of course the arrest would start happening the moment the place is actually figured out and chosen and others can just contribute ideas to the location (the default assumption is that they just find someplace with a green field, sunny and open but you guys might find different places that might work and be more scenic to build the place)

----------


## Hawkflight

Personally, I'm wondering if there's gonna be another response from Purple Moth or that group of nobles.

----------


## Lord Raziere

oh sorry. I'll respond then to those. I thought you were doing the ominous end thing with the nobles and that Purple moth was done, my bad.

----------


## Hawkflight

Oh hey, I just had the best idea. How would y'all feel about one of us being possessed by an evil alien parasite, Baby style?

----------


## Lord Raziere

I mean I have entire lists of characters, many of which if possessed could be real worrying for one reason or another, what did you have in mind?

----------


## Rater202

Diamond super 17' himself, so Machine Mutants are in play.

(arguably if he wanted to he could do the parasite thing himself. He basically ate a feral Android already.)

Also, a Klyntar symbiote from Marvel Comics was in the Delargo basement, so alien parasites, in general, seem to be a thing.

----------


## Lord Raziere

honestly I was just trying to throw weird at least vaguely horrifying stuff in that basement to try and throw people off or do something unusual, but I'm not good at suspense or anything like that so it didn't work. but that reminds me: Vodkana wanted saibamen as pets so it gave me the idea that Rilla could invent saibapets that are more cuddly and don't blow themselves up.

also don't expect these people in the Humanity Saga to be important by themselves, they're more like groups representing social strata of society, thats why I'm not naming them directly all that much, because this saga is more about the movement of groups and society than any singular person or their problems. I'm doing things differently here.

----------


## Rater202

There was something like that in Dragonball online. Litte turtle like critters derived from Saibamen,

BTW, a bit off-topic but I edited my most recent post in the Naruto OOC a little while ago and I don't know if you saw.

----------


## Hawkflight

> I mean I have entire lists of characters, many of which if possessed could be real worrying for one reason or another, what did you have in mind?


*Spoiler*
Show

Okay, so you know that event at Hearthome Ridge Starry keeps referencing? Let's just say I was planning to have that finally bear fruit in a Baby-esque mini-invasion. And it would happen alongside Jade's trial. I have plans for the EFC in this as well as a third side, hostile to both sides. I plan for a lot of stuff to come to light during this arc.




> Diamond super 17' himself, so Machine Mutants are in play.
> 
> (arguably if he wanted to he could do the parasite thing himself. He basically ate a feral Android already.)


Wait. Wut?

----------


## Rater202

Diamond was able to start maturing because he used the Red Pants Army's data on the Machine Mutants, from GT, to create a techno-organic clone of himself with all of his memories which he then permanently fused with.

This is how Super 17 was formed in GT.

The Machine Mutants all possessed various means of absorbing technology: Super 17's fusion was based on the principle behind the ability, Giru ate the dragon radar to fuel his metabolism and gained the ability to sense the Dragon Balls as a side effect, and General Rildow was able to power himself up first by absorbing the remains of the mooks that Goku had killed and then by absorbing random scraps of metal was able to enhance himself to the pint that he basically became one with the planet.

In Dragon Ball Heroes, there exists a scenario where Super 17 uses this ability to absorb first Android 16, then a version of Super Perfect Cell.

In this game, one of the things encountered in the Delargo Depths was a failed attempt to make Bio-Androids: All of the power, but completely feral. Basically a violent animal.

Since Diamond and Poka couldn't put it down, Diamond used Machine-Mutant Absorption to eat it.

Note that this means that Diamond is theoretically immortal now and is a perfect blend of biology and technology.

----------


## Hawkflight

> oh sorry. I'll respond then to those. I thought you were doing the ominous end thing with the nobles and that Purple moth was done, my bad.


Well, ominous cut-to-commercial.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Hawkflight

TL;DR Shiny attack disappear into invisible portal that's not there.

----------


## igordragonian

the scene on Keldas sound like fun...
But who is Adam?

----------


## Rater202

I've got nothing to add to the current scene at this.

----------


## Hawkflight

> the scene on Keldas sound like fun...
> But who is Adam?


Artificial human grown by a bunch of human-supremacy nutcases.

Had a crap couple of days, I'll try to post tomorrow.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Illegal immigration to Earth from another timeline, Assaulting Yama Former Kami of Earth, Counterfeiting various goods from other timelines through matter materialization, assaulting Vodkana of Nyagato, assaulting Spoon of Nyagato, kidnapping Vodkana of Nyagato, destruction of Vodkana's property, theft of an alien spacecraft named "The Shenron", endangerment of Earth's existence and autonomy by giving away Earth's location to Hailing in a time of war, kidnapping Masala of the Majins, Impersonating the Kami of Earth, accomplice to a tyrant in establishing an illegitimate government through the Dragon Balls, counterfeiting the book entitled "Groundbreaking Science!" through the Dragon Balls, general vigilantism, and walking around Earth without proper identification."


is there anything unlawful about Jade's actions that I potentially missed? if you remember anything I don't, please tell me this is the opportunity to call her out on it and I will add it to the list. the limitations are that the act must be on Earth, or have some logic for relating to Earth.

----------


## Hawkflight

Reckless endangerment of the space-time continuum? Attempted mass-murder via disrupting the space-time continuum?

Also, does Fakelight look exactly like Starlight, or different?

----------


## Hawkflight

> Also, does Fakelight look exactly like Starlight, or different?


Anyone....?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Anyone....?


Like I'm pretty sure due to the alterations that happened to get all....memetic, probably looks different by now, but I'm not sure, Igor for some reason hasn't responded. though to be fair, she used to be bondlight and literally have james bond clothes so....always intended to look different just to be visually distinguished between them.

@ Rater: I can see the current situation going down one of two routes without messing everything up:

either Jade decides that this is discussion is getting too heated and dangerous for the mortals and pulls a cosplay ninja trick where she replaces herself and everyone else with a multiform clone to trick Banton into taking the clones to court instead, thus providing a measure of protection against what screw over Ten thinks is going to happen.

or Jade breaks the cuffs, explains to Banton that Ten is too dangerous to talk to, give him a red C-Phone for them to contact her to work out a more neutral court to settle this, then gets Masala to teleport them away harmlessly and turns to Ten to tell her that she isn't sure if she should bring Ten near any populated areas if she is going to threaten normal people just as she would ki users.

----------


## Rater202

Either works, I'll leave which one up to you, but I do have a question I'd like ten to ask first.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Then I'll post one final attempt by Banton to explain things before having Jade act, you can respond and ask your question then its done.

----------


## Hawkflight

Friendly reminder that Jade has a direct line to Princess Celestia, a pony who has direct experience in dealing with this kind of thing.

----------


## Rater202

Are the kind of people who charge someone with non-existent crimes in order to scape-goat them the kind that are willing to diplomacize with a talking horse from another planet?

----------


## Lord Raziere

...wait, hawk, didn't you just say that Celestia is in a coma or something? but if shes not and your okay with it, I guess she can help as an ambassador, because thats essentially what she'll be. also the journal entry to her this might be....interesting.

also I wanted to actually examine Jade's actions to see if there was anything bad about them, not to have the attempt be rejected outright from the get go and be said to be invalid. I'm sorry if I chose the wrong way to do that. I thought it'd just be a fun examination or exploration of her actions kind of thing, but if your just going to dismiss as a villain plot, which I'm going to say now, I have no plans for? like if I were to say if its a plot devised by anyone, it be by people who actually believe in the system and other wise have no plans to get violent or anything like that. because I got other stuff planned after this, and not really connected to this specifically other than how this trials result gets shown to the public and what effects that have on other people. because I'll be honest, I don't have villains planned, this is more of "person vs. society" conflict. maybe some people in it are jerks/evil, but none that can be called supervillains or anything. basically a "see what happens when there isn't some supervillain around and we just have ki users dealing with current civilization" kind of thing. which can y'know, go horribly wrong but I'm trying not to let it. if there is going to be fights its going to be because we screwed up and less superhero action and more riots and bloody rebellion/revolution because the situation is destabilizing. like maybe there might be a fight with Yankar about something, I'm not sure, I just have a bunch of political/social factions ideas for this and not much else. again, I didn't plan this out, this is one of the two spare sagas I'm just throwing in, so if not as well planed.....there you go.

Hawk is of course allowed to whatever with their characters to include the superhero kind of stuff anyways. I'm just not personally doing that this saga.

(that and after all the moralizing and calling people out on their actions Jade has done over the years, I think its only fair that people call her out on her actions back sometimes)

----------


## Rater202

...Yeah, having a bunch o world leaders decide to scapegoat jade by charging her with non-existent crimes that are dependant on interpreting everything she does in the worst possible light probably wasn't the best way to go about that.

Especially since... That thing I had Ten say about the law not mattering becuase it's just a concept and it can't really apply to powered people? And that what really matters, in that case, is whether or not the people with power are helping or hurting?

That's not Android 10's philosophy. I got that from Spider-Man.

Of course, when he explained it the cop who was being a jackass realized he was a jackass.

The way you've presented this story is that a corrupt government is acting corrupt, so that's how I responded.

A philosophical debate would have been more effective for what you're going for.

----------


## Hawkflight

> ...wait, hawk, didn't you just say that Celestia is in a coma or something? but if shes not and your okay with it, I guess she can help as an ambassador, because thats essentially what she'll be. also the journal entry to her this might be....interesting.


No, she's awake, just a bit weak still and being kept out of the public eye so as not to cause a panic. In fact, I think she would quite appreciate a visit.

Also, I'm confused. I thought these charges were technically valid, even if most of them would be thrown out under Good Samaritan laws?

----------


## Rater202

> Also, I'm confused. I thought these charges were technically valid, even if most of them would be thrown out under Good Samaritan laws?


Vodkana and spoon were introduced by invading Oxy City.

Jade is being charged with assaulting them during this time... 

Which was before the Government formed, and thus is outside of their jurisdiction.

And they did it without consulting the ruler of the state it took place in.

Realistically, Oxy should be able to port over, point out that their doing this behind his back is a violation of his sovereignty(since several of those crimes happened within his borders) and then give the ultimatum of dropping the charges against Jade or his immediate secession which would then be followed by giving Jade full amnesty, meaning these people can't come after her without first committing an act of War against Ox's country.

Of course, this is dragon ball. Realism was never its strong suit.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Of course, this is dragon ball. Realism was never its strong suit.


He says while playing a character pointing out the legal realism the most.  :Small Tongue: 

so how to proceed from here....

-go to Celestia while waiting for the World Assembly's response?
-how WA reacts to the news, probably important?

question is, how do we explain Oxyribo not knowing about all this? cause I was under the impression that Oxyribo was a figurehead and made a council to make the laws for him and therefore the WA wouldn't know how he defines it or whatever and that he just never showed up to the meetings because a representative of Oxy City would go for him, but your saying he does have power which isn't a figurehead. so...... what do?

----------


## Rater202

The council he established runs the everyday stuff but he has the final say on pretty much everything, which is something he established becuase they were Bronze Age when we found them and he didn't want to Counsel becoming a new group of Tyrants becuase well, that's basically how it went in the Bronze age.

It's not something he exercises regularly but... Like the reason he wasn't around during the time I wasn't playing, we decided on, was that he was busy running his city.

I would assume it's as the cop said: The World Assembly did it behind Oxy's back becuase they think he's a murderous tyrant.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ...Yeah, having a bunch o world leaders decide to scapegoat jade by charging her with non-existent crimes that are dependant on interpreting everything she does in the worst possible light probably wasn't the best way to go about that.


I keep going back and forth on whether to include a Gero invention to explain how they'd know about all this in first place, but since it would look into the past, it would only introduce more inconsistency if they could find evidence for other stuff but for whatever reason didn't look to do that. I'm sure you can come up with better examples than me why that'd be a bad idea.

----------


## Rater202

Yeah, even if it was just for this thing... If the people are corrupt they'll see that they're wrong and ignore it. Otherwise, this doesn't happen in the first place.

----------


## Lord Raziere

By the way, we're only five posts away from page 50 then we'll have to make a new IC thread, any ideas for a new title for it?

----------


## Hawkflight

Return of the Princess King?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Lord Raziere

I want to suggest "Jade's Bizarre Adventure" but I'm afraid it'd be self-indulgent of me

its too early to say "My Cosplay Academia", unfortunately.

Maybe "A Tale Of Two Androids" for the A Tale of Two Cities reference

maybe "Now With Filler Arcs Like Real Anime"  :Small Tongue: 

"Regicide Solves Everything"  :Small Tongue: 

"Yellow Bug Threatens Authorities! Again!" to reference another thread.

and aaaaagh, the latest Oxyribo response has gotten me all unsure of what to do again, he is a character so frustrating to roleplay with, because he never seems affected by anything or willing to play along with anything. its like trying to interact with brick walls, why should I even bother if nothing interesting is going to happen because Oxy keeps shutting it down? because at this rate, I might as well just stop this and an engineer something more philosophical discussion like anyways in a way that Oxy can't interfere with, because he's already made up his mind so there is no point to asking him. hawk your the one who wanted Jade to experience consequences or whatever right? what do you want to do, because this is probably just going to keep going without Oxyribo ever stopping, and I don't see the point in playing this out if its just going to be Oxy-stonewalled from the get-go.

----------


## Rater202

...Look, I'm just reacting to this in a way that feels natural.

You're within your rights to have the assembly refuse to back down and insist on charging Jade, in which case we proceed as normal except with a grumpy bug sitting there being vaguely intimidating and making sarcastic comments.

Off the top of my head, the fact that Jade _told_ the World assembly about his "worst-case scenario we can just overthrow the world government and take over" thing basically undermines his entire position and more than justifies them ignoring everything he says while making it seems like he's the aggressor if he takes steps towards war over this, basically forcing him to not do anything aggressive unless they write off the Government as a lost cause.

----------


## Hawkflight

Well, basically ... once the Equestrian threat invades, I plan to have the EFC intervene with their own plan that's dangerous, immoral, and needs to be stopped, but also only exists because of Jade's actions. Remember those test tubes I mentioned in the EFC lab? My intention was to convey that these experiments are a direct result of Jade's attempts to uplift humanity without a proper social revolution.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ...Look, I'm just reacting to this in a way that feels natural.
> 
> You're within your rights to have the assembly refuse to back down and insist on charging Jade, in which case we proceed as normal except with a grumpy bug sitting there being vaguely intimidating and making sarcastic comments.


its really hard to tell when his comments are serious, sarcastic, threatening or what-have-you, because Oxyribo threatening people seems to have become some personal meme in my brain that I can't get out. and its not just that, its that he has logical points, its just his logic leads to many conclusions that I can't see anyone else in the universe being comfortable with or agreeing with. like I can't imagine Oxyribo ordering food at a restaurant, because I keep thinking he would threaten the waiter to make sure the food is perfect or he won't pay won't full price and give the restaurant a bad review after yelling at the manager. 

but then again, Oxyribo seems a pretty intense person, maybe its just my bias against intense people in general and the fact that I have yet to come up with a social situation where he _doesn't_ feel the need to threaten someone. and it does make sense that he would be bad at talking to most people, given that most people don't have his power, stubbornness or particular background- I'd imagine most normal people simply wouldn't understand how he looks at the world simply because they will never be able to experience it and he doesn't really understand how most people see the world because he is too powerful to grasp why they do what they do or feel what they feel. and that the main reason Jade is able to talk to him is because she's experienced both the worlds of a normal person and powerful ki user, which given the most other characters around, seems to be a rare thing. 

like I imagine if you put a normal person in most ki-fighter situations they'd just be terrified out of their minds unless they're one of those people who find peace in higher causes and thus can be brave in the face of ki-induced death as long as they have something greater than themselves to die for. there is simply no other way for them to be courageous in the face of such a massive power gap. such people of course are mostly either soldiers, charity organization type people, 40k style fanatics of anything, or people with a similar mindset as Shirou Emiya. all of which are outliers. 

okay, here goes nothing, gonna try to just....get on with this. then again, they WILL stop this if Fenrir tells them to since he's the actual ruler, so this might not happen anyways.

Edit: ah I see.

----------


## Hawkflight

Pro gamer move, have Oxy visit Equestria with the group.

----------


## Lord Raziere

also hawkflight can you better explain what specific event your referring to with the time travel endangerment and stuff?  do you mean the time Berade caused a time rift, then threw an attack into it, which was things I wanted to happen to make Orkomajin 45 exist? or something else?

----------


## igordragonian

for this story, for now, I am taking more of a sideshow, and I am fine with it.
Are we having also an Equestrian stroyline?


As for Trombone Saga, which I have more or less, planned, I want to share and discuss few things, so we can make it enjoyable and engaging to everyone.


-----
It will start with a tournament. 
I have plans for this, wacky fights and tests and such. 
But. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoQJ2A4wK0

and in short,I want to make it meaningful to any of you. Motivations and all that.

Second, I want to make a sidestory, with a young cast, (sort of like what we wanted GT to be? but with a grimdark twist)

----

name for thread?
Game of blast throws?

----------


## Hawkflight

> for this story, for now, I am taking more of a sideshow, and I am fine with it.
> Are we having also an Equestrian stroyline?


Yeah, though it'll bleed over to Earth pretty quickly.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, it seems no one can agree upon title. uuuh.

I think I got one. "Down to Earth" will do that since we need something and it seems the most fitting.

as for the factions of Earth, here is what I got so far:

Anti-Jade Factions:
-Commonfolk
-World Assembly
-Extremists
Anti-Fenrir Factions
-Protesters
-Extremists
Anti Ki-User Factions
-Labor Protesters
-Segregationists 
-Extremists

Earth Isolationist Movement:
These people simply don't want aliens and others around, believing that anyone not from Earth should go away, being afraid of them

Luddites:
In this timeline, the luddites are empowered by ki and are much more dangerous, destroying factories because they want to go back to an earlier age where industry didn't make them obsolete while more educated ones use smuggled books from Shining City or Oxy City proclaiming environmentalist philosophy to justify destroying industry. 

Queensjade:
A group of rebels who believe that Jade would be the best ruler of Earth and that no one else will do, thinking that she will bring about a truly equal society where both ki users and normal people can live in peace.

Cult of the Supreme Organism:
A cult that believes in Oxyribo as the ultimate example of genetics, social darwinism, the ubermensch mentality and wishes to receives his blessings by killing any they perceive as against him, believing that they will someday "ascend" to similar forms to become superior to all

The New Nobles:
A group of ki users that believe they become the new nobility of the world and get rid of the old one, thinking they will be better than the old nobility and believes that Oxyribo and Jade will support them as they are inspired them

Yakuza:
An organized criminal gang that use ki to abuse their power over common people, extorting, killing and so on with their ki abilities.

House of Gero:
Attempts to solve current issues by application of various steam tech, mixed success

The Enlightened Bourgeois:
Strongly believe in intellectual philosophy, empiricism and science, but don't believe that ki users hold up to their standards.

The Romantics:
Want to learn more about the majesty of space, and want to enjoy life, even if they have outdated strange ideas about what they will find.

The Poor/Commonfolk:
The most numerous group. Regard ki users, nobility, bourgeois as all the same, just wearing different hats while they languish in poverty trying to survive. At least them bourgeois and nobility can be stolen from back. Has some of the most ignorant ideas due to their lack of education, and will steal or do any crime they need to if chaos unfolds.

thats all I got, they're meant to simulate a lot of moving parts that is the chaos of this kind of era.

----------


## Hawkflight

So, I assume Fakelight isn't getting scanned after the teleportation? (She asked, with the air of a DM asking, "Are you sure?")




> Earth Isolationist Movement:
> These people simply don't want aliens and others around, believing that anyone not from Earth should go away, being afraid of them.


Do you mean the Earth First Coalition, or another group with similar motives?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Do you mean the Earth First Coalition, or another group with similar motives?


They can be apart of it, but I assume there are people who don't have the resources or power, but still hold the same views.

----------


## igordragonian

Fakelight probably will be scanned.
She is scared but prepared to teleport away.
She is too curiouse.


Hel is probably Earth separtist of sort

"Down to earth" sound good

I'll reply on a new thread

----------


## Lord Raziere

new IC thread has been post up, first ooc post edited for links, last post of mine edited to link to new thread.

----------


## Hawkflight

> also hawkflight can you better explain what specific event your referring to with the time travel endangerment and stuff?  do you mean the time Berade caused a time rift, then threw an attack into it, which was things I wanted to happen to make Orkomajin 45 exist? or something else?


More like ... altering the past and changing the future? Which could be considered murder against those who will never be born thanks to these changes.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Ah. I see.

That helps clarify how that will play out, thank you.

as a side note, I've been re-looking through my character sheets, because I think I've completely forgotten what the details of thee actual abilities of my characters are. like I know the general stuff, but the details I needed reminding of. 

....also I was just reminded by looking back, A Referan Christmas is apparently canon given that Artic has a katchin power suit from it, and thus Masala has the power of Santa. should put that on the sheet. Hm. I think I finally have a direction for her to go.

Edit: also to clarify what Yankar's new ability is:

Super-Instinct: Keldasian Mimicry
Yankar has trained enough to survive Keldas's environmental conditions of constant rapid movement and thus gained Improvement by forcing his body, mind and soul to adapt to the conditions, and thus now he improves at Keldasian's rate during battle, his power increasing rapidly by leaps and bounds to combat his foes.

----------


## Hawkflight

Waaaait a minute, am I ruining this arc by introducing an action element? I know you said you wanted this arc to be a more calm one....




> Super-Instinct: Keldasian Mimicry
> Yankar has trained enough to survive Keldas's environmental conditions of constant rapid movement and thus gained Improvement by forcing his body, mind and soul to adapt to the conditions, and thus now he improves at Keldasian's rate during battle, his power increasing rapidly by leaps and bounds to combat his foes.


Sooo, funny story. That's what Adam's base abilities are meant to be. That's why Lord Maxwell and Dr. Briefs created him -- a super-soldier to defend humanity using nothing but Earth-based technology and human ingenuity.

*Spoiler: MAAAAJOR SPOILER*
Show

Their plan is to eventually make everyone like that.

I wonder how we can roll with this....

----------


## Lord Raziere

1. Yes its supposed to be calm, but your not ruining it- its going to be calm as long as its engaged on a social level. and thats what I'm focusing on. you can do action stuff if you want. just don't be surprised if that destabilizes things and shows the other side of the coin to society's function (namely, what happens when its breaks down) and the people when they go not-calm well.....well most people won't pose a threat to your per se, its more like they will riot or do something fearful or whatever regardless of how "logical" it actually is from a personal perspective. because like it or not, people in large numbers do things that seem incredibly illogical to a lone person viewing it from a distance. I myself cannot truly understand why say, people would react to something fearful by causing more chaotic things to happen when there are things that can stop them easily even if ki users aren't a thing, but they still do, and thus just apart of what happens when things go wrong.

or maybe I'm just taking a "Marvel/X-Men" interpretation about all this. either one. or to put it another way, the more the characters treat society as valuable, important and should be responsible about it, the more its a DC superhero story, and the more the characters treat society as corrupt, an enemy to endure or whatever the more its a Marvel superhero story where society isn't ideal and nor are the heroes. I'm focusing on the social effects, than personal or physical ones.

2. Interesting. but DBZ has a constant theme of "what ki feats you do with technology can be done with good ol' fashioned training" so....not out of place? *shrug*

----------


## Hawkflight

Hey, here's an idea. What if I introduced the big fighty enemy as a secondary element? Jade is probably the most powerful (or at least the most fight-savvy) character in the group. What if, when this enemy spreads to Earth, humanity ends up needing to turn to Jade for help defeating it? This would only happen towards the end of the Courtroom arc, and the EFC's failures could lead into their arc, much like the Android saga did with the Cell Saga.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Hey, here's an idea. What if I introduced the big fighty enemy as a secondary element? Jade is probably the most powerful (or at least the most fight-savvy) character in the group. What if, when this enemy spreads to Earth, humanity ends up needing to turn to Jade for help defeating it? This would only happen towards the end of the Courtroom arc, and the EFC's failures could lead into their arc, much like the Android saga did with the Cell Saga.


I mean if you don't have Oxyribo contesting the most powerful/fight savvy part, sure.

(like that question of who really is more powerful has never been resolved, and I don't think it ever will, because it would be an unstoppable force vs. immovable object scenario, neither of them are competitive enough to try and make it happen, and any scenario to try and contrive a "hero vs. hero"situation would run into all the problems you get when Marvel or DC tries that. 

I know that Toriyama answer's would probably be: Jade is the better of the two due to Dragon Ball convention favoring her as more conventionally heroic, as well as being the low-class drainer android compared to the high class bio-android- even if she lost the technical one-on-one fight, as Masala would jump in to help because she is Jade's daughter and loves but, Pokaasuu would jump in to help Oxyribo, the two would then fight, Masala being the weaker of the two would gain a power up to beat Pokasuu, while thats happening Beryl and Pinappla fight Oxyribo, Beryl somehow gets beaten and seeing both Beryl and Jade go down, Pinappla either enters some berserk rage greater than ever before or some other greater form of mastery of super saiyan to trounce Oxyribo, thus super-saiyans win the end as always.

Then Pinappla gets shoved off to the side next saga so that Jade can be the hero again against majin buu or something. in short Toriyama logic dictates that the caonical real answer to the question to whether Jade is the most powerful is "no, its Pinappla since she is the nearest pure-blooded saiyan with a good heart". 

I am not Toriyama, and my own opinion is that people are allowed to think whatever they like about her power/combat prowess. I'm just the person who roleplays her.)

----------


## Rater202

> I mean if you don't have Oxyribo contesting the most powerful/fight savvy part, sure.


Not really relevant: Remember, his plan is if the World Assembly refuses to drop this foolishness is to take away the Dragon Balls and then sit around doing nothing while the rest of the world suffers under the next warlord/alien invasion/demon/time traveler.

He protects his own, but the rest of the world gets to realize that they're trying to cook the golden goose instead of selling the golden eggs and using it to buy steak.

----------


## Hawkflight

Huh, that reminds me, I completely forgot about Pinappla's bestie Katnep. I wonder what she's been doing this whole time....

Also, where is Vodkana?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Thinking about it, the only flaw in the "ask Jade to fight" plan is that she literally wished upon the Dragon Balls to give the world ki fighting to make sure they can defend themselves without her, and even without Oxyribo she literally has:
Beryl, Masala, Pinappla, Shanakan, Luxana, Red Mantis, Black Scorpion, Orange Wasp, Grey Spider, White Butterfly, Yellow Queen, Purple Moth, and even Mekrashin Darok....

all as people she could probably call and theoretically willing to fight in her place. there are literally thirteen people about the same level of power that can in theory fight for her if she doesn't want to do it. 14, if you count Rilla being an android too.

and even if cut out the new characters like Mekrashin, Pinappla and the Unkillables, there are still four other people who she could ask to do it for her. in theory.

so....we'll see what form her help takes, though I'm leaning towards giving Masala a chance, she is probably overdue a super form, honestly.

Edit: I don't know where Katnep went. after you left we didn't keep track of her. so. I'd just default to Katnep being back on Plant or something.

Edit 2: though really, if I want them unavailable, Mekrashin is simple as saying he is on some Nar-Shadda or Tatooine like world fighting space pirates for fun, for the Unkillables having inherited both the genes of Goku and Jade, has probably inherited their wild luck as well and it combines into making them having their own enemies and troubles to face like some spinoff series and since they're so powerful and so weird being bio-androids, their enemies and adventures in turn are far more bizarre and challenging like something straight out of the Doom Patrol.

----------


## igordragonian

Vodkana in hangover at Hailing Planet.
For now she has now plans to arrive, but maybe this will change.

As for Katnep..

I dunno?

----------


## Hawkflight

Well, it could be as simple as saying that the enemy is so strong that they need everyone, and they need Jade to tip the balance.

Also, sorry for the delay.




> As for Katnep..
> 
> I dunno?


Well, I had been planning of having her ask Vodkana to teach her how to unlock her cat-person powers, since she's half cat-person.

----------


## igordragonian

> Well, it could be as simple as saying that the enemy is so strong that they need everyone, and they need Jade to tip the balance.
> 
> Also, sorry for the delay.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I had been planning of having her ask Vodkana to teach her how to unlock her cat-person powers, since she's half cat-person.


Nyagatos aren't simply cat anthros, Earth already have them.
Basic abilities are genetic, the ki based one, are martial art based on cooking, if this will intrest her

----------


## Lord Raziere

My notes for future arcs:

*Spoiler: World Enders Club Saga*
Show


Wilfred Ainsley Slaughterton, The World-Bleeder 
Cadswallow Killsbury, Planetary Pool Player
Douglas Deathingway, The Player of Games
-is basically that one Jojo character who challenges the heroes to games unrelated to martial arts to decide whether a planet lives or dies with some kind of power to make sure it happens

Barnum Scamatrillion, Cynicism's Proof 
Wesley Chokinthorpe, The Fair Chance Flip
-is basically planet-scale Two Face

Tetrona Torturo Violaski, The Descending Cubes Stylist
-martial arts style based on tetris

Jonathon Smashstone, The Stoic Poker Stylist
Jazzie Bang, The Cheating Gambler Stylist
Daniel Symphario, The Casino King Stylist
-these three styles based upon various kinds of gambling, with stoic poker being the fairest and Casino King being the most powerful and environment-controlling

Vincent Slashentine, The Suffering Edge Nobility Stylist

Karsis Scamatrillion, The Cyberspace Wanderer Stylist 
-martial arts style based on internet stuff?

Zaroff Kilsine, Hunter of the Strongest And his pet Lavos
-wants to hunt most dangerous game: ki users
-has tamed a lavos from chrono trigger and feeds planets to it.

Killiana Jones, The Pre-Archeologist 
-not sure what I meant by this title?

The Butler, Master of Dutiful Service Style  
-very strong and competent despite humble appearance, outpowering most of the club.

Leader: Mistress Entropia Delacroix Wiltinmire 
-supposed to be foil to Vodkana, big fangirl of Beerus

plot: World Enders Club come to galaxy, act as if their destruction of planets is a game? have a wheel of fortune?  televise it for style? 

Morality: these guys are pretty much card carrying villains. no need to be concerned about their lives.



*Spoiler: Majin Playtime Saga*
Show


Vanele, The Shiver Majin:
The majin of primordial ice. She loves ice cream of all flavors and will eat any ice cream she sees. She creates ice sculptures and snow-art whenever she wants, ice skates on every lake she comes across, and picks snowball fights with random strangers. If she ever watches the Frozen movie she will sing Let It Go perfectly, repeatedly and constantly well past the point of everyone else being sick of it. She can be very cold to those who anger her, but can be very generous when you display kindness in her presence, but this doesn't mean she will listen to you. She stays away from hot areas and will avoid them whenever possible, and sunny days are annoying to her.

Spi-Spi the Toasty Majin: 
The majin of primordial fire. She is easily angered, seemingly getting angry at various little things, with no telling what will set her off, and she can be one of the most dangerous majins to be around. She loves spicy food and when fed it, one can see her in a sunny disposition. She is also however an artist and when she gets inspired, she throws herself passionately into making whatever she has in mind with reckless, feverish abandon until its finished.  She loves the heat of combat and will join in whenever shes one just because she can. When her rages or rushes of passion go on for too long, she burns out and falls into an ashen burn out state where she becomes depressed and tired, unable to do much of anything and likely to fall asleep until she can recover her energy. However when happy plants grow around her, as if she radiates sunlight.

Hexi, the Spooky Majin:
The Majin of Magic. While she has a bigger vocabulary than the others, she can only speak magic words she learns from the book she carries around and when spoken those words always have an effect. Hexi doesn't actually grasp the meaning behind any of these words, only seeing the sounds and effects she makes as toys to play and have fun with, laughing at the chaos her magic causes and thinking its all a show or something. She is confused when people say words and nothing happens,  and wishes she can fix it so that things happen when they make sounds so they can have fun as well. She likes cats and tries to adopt black ones, but they always run away. She has an odd tendency to accidentally cause things that are considered bad luck to happen. She is endlessly fascinated by Halloween costumes, day of the dead festivals, graveyards, haunted houses and bones. 

Viva, the Melon Majin:
The Majin of Life, or in other words, the Majin of Ki, Viva loves to eat. While she will eat anything, she has a particular preference for watermelons. When angered she snarls and begins transforming into animalistic forms. When she sees even the slightest drop of pollution she flies into a rage and destroys all the technology around her. She distrusts clearly mechanical things and will snarl at them if they are doing something she doesn't understand. She picks up martial arts abilities and other physical movements incredibly easily, and her fighting potential is nearly limitless. She loves animals, but will also kill and eat them if they don't like her.

Dia, the Sparkly Majin:
The Majin of Matter, Dia is vain. She constantly gathers gems and pretty dresses, puts them on herself so she can display. She always wants to be the center of attention and will upstage any movie, music or theatrical performance by self-inserting herself into it. She loves showing off, and tries to be beautiful and elegant as possible. At the same time, she is a bit of a trickster and loves making other people look silly by pulling pranks. She also loves making art out of crystals and gems and making them shiny and sparkly as possible. When she gets angry, her stomps can cause earthquakes at the weakest. 

Zapple, the Zappy Majin:
The Majin of Electricity. He constantly runs. There is rarely a moment where he is not in motion, and he is so fast he can be anywhere in the universe at any time. He is constantly delighted and full of wonder at modern civilizations power lines and networks of electricity, jumping into screens and traveling across the world instantly through the currents and waves. Despite knowing how fast he runs, for some reason he loves finding random vehicles to steal and ride on as fast he can make them go, seemingly enjoying the experience more than the actual amount of speed itself. 

When he is angered, he becomes Negatively Charged and acquires a stormy, moody disposition. His skin turns dark blue his hair white, and so on. His lightning goes from yellow to blue, and a storm forms above him and follows him wherever he goes. Beware, due to his negative charge he can cause a lot of antimatter explosions just by touching things. Worse, once he's negatively charged he stays that ways for weeks even if he calms down, usually equal to the amount of time he spent Positively Charged. During these times he can be depressive, causing rainstorms with his crying, have sudden flashes of anger punctuated with actual lightning, 

The Last Two:
These last two are more complicated, as Space and Time are more complex and abstract forces to comprehend and understand, and thus harder to figure out what people embodying those forces think and what their goals are. 

Orbiko, the Astro Majin:
She is the Majin of Space. In her natural pure state, she teleports about ceaselessly, casually collects shiny things into her pocket dimension, rearranges the positions of things for fun, messes with gravity for fun making things float just because she can, tours the galaxy to see the sights and remake them,  Can be everywhere at once by making clones if she wants to, can turn intangible,  can punch someone from any distance, open portals between any two points, summon others, make her own pocket dimensions, and so on. Her attention is scatterbrained and often ADHD in terms of focus. She has a need to fill anything she finds to be empty with little bits of fire and things that spin and go in circles.

With the power to be anywhere at anytime, and see anywhere and everywhere, thus her awareness and ability to be anywhere, to reshape and resize anything, to have the power of the cosmos themselves. She comprehends the exact nature of how insignificant most beings are and how vast the cosmos is.
Her non-evil absorption of a mortal long ago gives a deeper story that I haven't figured out yet, granting her intelligence and ability to use her powers more competently for some goal I haven't figured out.

Salabim, the Chrono-Majin: 
He is the Majin of Time. With his power to rewind bits of time, he believes that there is no consequences for his actions. He sees the true nature of time and in doing so wants to screw with people as much as possible for his own enjoyment, as to him everyone is simultaneously already dead, always alive, and also having never been born. He tortures people and planets by repeatedly killing them in different ways and then rewinding their personal time back before they die. He also has control over peoples perception as an outgrowth of his control over time, and can create illusions as well as make people see a parallel universe instead of whats happening in their own universe despite not being in that parallel timeline. 

Frankly, his unfiltered perception of time renders him completely insane. He can't tell the difference between whats real and what isn't, what is happening and what will never happen, whats possible and whats impossible, whats past, whats future, and whats present. Thus to him its all illusions and variables to control, and whether someone or something exists or not is purely a matter of perception or opinion, and if people are already dead and also never been born, their opinion doesn't matter. Is completely and utterly evil and will never stop his torments

Plot: some person goes around releasing the majins for some goal. Majins being mostly innocent and without comprehension of modern day stuff, just play and cause chaos in their innocence. Until the last two come in.

Morality: mostly light as most of the majins are innocent. Space Majin intended to be sympathetic. Time Majin completely joker-levels of crazy and a reality warping threat.




*Spoiler: Second Unkillables Saga*
Show


General Changes to Unkillable bio-androids:
All kept separate. No familial connection. Pure paramilitary protocols. Modified for Soldier mindset and to fight for money, complete empathy suppression. False memories to give them loyalty to Kalzin.

Possible androids:
Grey Ants:
-Has two infinite energy drives, arcosian, namekian and saiyan DNA, and the all modifications of the Gen 1 Unkillables except for Black Scorpion's lack of hands. 
-Like Yellow Queen, is optimized for reproduction
-unlike Yellow Queen, Grey Ant has her brain removed and a strange server put in its place, where it basically routes all the players of a VR battleground game Deglargo sells to take control of a single Grey Ant for them. Thus providing them both a military and a way profitable game to sell.
-does not speak
-organizes Grey Ant Army to fight as teams.
-can hack computers to do as it needs to, Skynet style 
-original body is nothing but a husk to produce more Grey Ants to fight. Her brain is put on ice.
-Grey Ants when not controlled are emotionless weapons.
- is supposed to be the mooks of this saga. 

Biomerc-1:
Has two infinite energy drives, Majin, Ork and Keldasian DNA. Thus can regenerate, breathe in space, never tires, constantly improves in battle without needing to be injured, unleashes spores that create more of him.
-has Yankar DNA for breadth of techniques
-has deadened emotions, soldier mindset, motivated by money, disciplined., uses telepathy to communicate with others of his model
-has false memories, giving him loyalty to Kalzin

Makaimerc-1:
-Has two infinite energy drives
-DNA of a Slaughter Demon, Majin and Keldasian, Blizzan 
-Empowered and obsessed with blood and flies into rages and slaughters everything in its path. Uses Bloody Slaughter Style
-has false memories, giving him loyalty to Kalzin

Necrodroid-1:
-two infinite anti-ki energy drives
-Vampire powers: necrotic regeneration, turn others into undead that follow her orders, decaying blasts, drain blood, turn into bat, mist form, mesmerize mortals by looking in the eyes, 
-cybernetic powers: infect people with her nanorobotics to turn them into undead cyborgs at the same, anti-holy shielding, 

Godmerc-1:
-Has two infinite energy drives.
-DNA of Tarasai, Deus, Arkea, Yewa and Kurumo, as well Majin and Keldasian DNA
-Knows all the Kai styles the wield and can combine them to do incredible feats of martial power.
-Has false memories put into him, making him a loyal soldier. 

Psychodroid-1
-has two infinite energy drives
-DNA of Majin and Keldasian, God Emperor of Mankind, Apfel 

Kalzin's Majindroid Harem:
A majindroid harem Kalzin made to fulfill his trash fantasies. Acts as a deconstruction of the concept by showing the majindroids personalities break down when he doesn't treat them like people.

Jantara, The Fiery Tsundere 
Abracadabra, The Genki Girl
Charme, The Ojou Cat Girl
Sesame, The Shrinking Violet Meganekko 
Taraji, The Elegant Goth Kuudere 
Legerde, The Emotionless Maid

Sympathetic characters: 
Orkomajin 45:
Has two infinite energy drives, Masala, Beryl, Jade, Pinappla and Mekrashins DNA, and all the biological advantages, memories and techniques that come with
-Wants to specifically fight the Refera family out of jealousy that she can't love them like the original people they are and can't have the same relationships, thus seeking a rival like relationship instead.
-dual-wields chain swords, as well as scythes, katanas, harp bow, electric guitar, 
-Broke out of the Memory Falsifier thanks to Berade's rift and her attack.

Plot: Kalzin is recklessly trying to produce and sell new majindroid models on some planet, and takes in a different direction than purely military, selling weaker models as cute majindroid maids to make them more popular with consumers, but has a dark secret in that they all require eating cookies made from people to keep them from going crazy, already having a city catch onto his craze.

Morality: darker as Kalzin is deliberately making bio-androids for his own selfish fantasies and desires and treating them as objects while selling them to others so that they'll be servants, while also trying for more thorough methods to make sure they are loyal



*Spoiler: Android 24 Saga*
Show


Characters:
various Android 23 parallel universe counterparts:
An army of Android 23's that almost all in some way are failed or more cynical versions of Jade Refera depending what choices were made differently or what circumstances happened to her, all with their own opinions and methods on how to stop Android 24, some are more evil than others and many of them consider any sacrifice worth preserving existence. Notable ones include:
Goddess of Destruction 23
Knight of Time 23
Majindroid 23
Bio-android 23
Empress Jade
Sans 23
Evil Android 45
Crimsanne Refera

Emperor Gero:
An examination of Doctor Gero if he had succeeded in his goals and has his Red Ribbon Empire. its currently falling into chaos when sucked into the Time Abyss as it fights off various threats around it, and Doctor Gero is forced to put his his now old-hat delusional revenge on hold to figure out his own way to try and stop Android 24.

Omicron:
A universe-sized godlike AI that has taken over an entire doomed timeline, all planets being replaced with its technological structures. Is the most intelligent thing in existence, so much that its thoughts are incomprehensible to anyone else, and only small fragments of it can converse with beings that it considers ants and pests. 

Thermavores:
Posthumans from near the end of time traveling back to feed on current energy sources and seeking the secret of the infinite energy engine to use for themselves, only to find apocalyptic wastelands and destruction around them as they fight to survive, hating other beings, jealous for them being born earlier.

Some Robot civilization:
A robot civilization that has individuality and self-customizing robots who wiped out all organics but fight against Omicron seeing it as an incomprehensible terrifying godlike entity that will assimilate them if they don't resist. but still hate organic life.

The Half Saiyan King:
A half saiyan from the year 1200 ruling an Earth Empire of destructive super saiyans, he is the only who has achieved Super Saiyan 3/super Saiyan God and with the Dragon Balls has achieved immortality, but seeks even more power and challenges.

"Towa":
A person claiming to be Towa flying around trying to do a scheme, but since Towa is dead, its doubtful she is the real one or even a parallel copy of her, since her methods and Towas methods don't match. 

Secret Character:
A character Jade is supposed to meet somewhere, for reasons and in very special and out there circumstances.

Android 24:
Humanity's ultimate Evil, a hateful ignorant teen obsessed with strength and upgraded by cybernetics, he has become Hatred and Idiocy Incarnate, focusing on pure strength and power until he has become reality-breaking with what he does, and wiping out the universes of invalid timelines as if its nothing with the time patrol unable to defeat him no matter who they send after him. His mind is incredibly ignorant and simple, as well as joyless and one track. but all the more dangerous for his lack of restraint, as he won't hesitate to simply destroy the entire universe you are in to kill you. Desires to end all of existence and will stop at nothing to do so.

Plot: Is basically meant to be a bit of a finale for Jade Refera. Android 24, a cyborg from her previous timeline has grown so powerful from indiscriminately draining energy that he has begun destroying all timelines in his hatred for all of existence that has caused a universe-sized time rift to appear near Universe 13 that sucking in all the doomed timelines around it into its abyss, and now Jade Refera must stop it before reality ends.

Morality/Tone: grimdark, darkest saga ever. Android 24 meant to be the world's greatest most despicable monster and the exact thing Jade wants to work to prevent with all her previous efforts. 



none of these are complete. just posting them to.....lay them out in some manner.

----------


## igordragonian

> My notes for future arcs:
> 
> *Spoiler: World Enders Club Saga*
> Show
> 
> 
> Wilfred Ainsley Slaughterton, The World-Bleeder 
> Cadswallow Killsbury, Planetary Pool Player
> Douglas Deathingway, The Player of Games
> ...


I see you have some fun plans for Majins...
it's still fear, would you preffer me to avoid using Majin Buu in the Trombone Saga?

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## Lord Raziere

> I see you have some fun plans for Majins...
> it's still fear, would you preffer me to avoid using Majin Buu in the Trombone Saga?


I don't know what element would Buu would be, so no, use him however you want. I just.... wanted to my separate spin on the Majin concept. not supplant anyone elses. 

but yeah, fun times these majins would be. hopefully I'll get to play them. they're supposed to be kid buu level intelligent aside from the last two. I'm running with the assumption that Majin Buu's case of absorbing multiple people is a special one.

----------


## Rater202

Majin Buu, in canon, is depicted as being a primal embodiment of Chaos, Evil, and Destruction up until the moment he absorbed Daikaioshin-sama.

Which honestly makes sense, when you consider that his powers clearly don't follow the same rules as the magic and ki techniques of other people: As versatile as ki and magic is, Buu just kind of bends reality and if you've been keeping up with the Super Manga, per the Planet Eater Moro Saga(which, incidentally, confirms that Magic and Ki run on the same juice,) Buu's energy_ isn't_ ki or life energy, or at least, isn't subject to the same limitations as ki and life force(Moro, who uses other people and planets ki and life force to power his spells and drains it to increase his power _can't_ feed on Buu.)

So, if he needs an element, Chaos.

Or Maybe Buu is just the original Majin, they're _all_ Chaos, but the others are chaos reflected through different concepts which trade some of their chaotic powers for power over that concept.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Chaos. eh?

I like Chaos magics as a concept, but they're always hard to wrap my head around, because its trying to define a force around a concept that is all about defying definition. you put chaos into a defined box, its not really chaos anymore. but if its unlimited, it might as well by omnipotence. so its like, how is Chaos defying definition, but not being outright omnipotent? its why I struggle with to figure out what to do with Masala. cause I have a lot potential ideas for her....but none of that I'm sure about. 

so for the Majins my logic is for them to embody primal, primordial forces of nature that either look chaotic when they occur suddenly and without warning (the elemental majins), or are things so far outside our usual experience that when applied to a person embodiment don't translate to somebody that has a human mindset. they're technically order in some higher nature sense, but only if you ignore how raw and untamed that is.

so its like, how to work Chaos? (like I can think of a few ways to either kind of define it compare it to something analogous: as luck, quantum physics, shapeshifting, the unknown, deception, things like that, but I'm just not sure what to go with for Majins)

----------


## Rater202

I was thinking just have Buu's default powers be chaos or else Buu is the default and the others aren't as strong as Buu when it comes to _those_ ailities but have other powers that close the gap.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I was thinking just have Buu's default powers be chaos or else Buu is the default and the others aren't as strong as Buu when it comes to _those_ ailities but have other powers that close the gap.


that could work

but what is Chaos, Rater.

I don't know. I love Chaos, don't get me wrong, I use it a lot in my characters, but its hard to define what exactly it...._does_ that makes it a coherent power. you see what I mean? what makes it different from a deus ex machina or something like that? hm...

----------


## Rater202

either complete randomness and disorder or else the primal nothingness that predates existence, depending on the context.

Beyond that, I don't think its possible to define it in terms of a coherant power due to its inherent, well, randomness, becuase humans can't comprehend true randomness.

So just "powers that don't follow the same rules as everyone else" is the closest I can think of in Buu's case.

(Look at Discord, too: He's a Spirit of chaos but if you look at it his powers are't truly random he's just a moderately powerful reality warper.)

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## Lord Raziere

> either complete randomness and disorder or else the primal nothingness that predates existence, depending on the context.
> 
> Beyond that, I don't think its possible to define it in terms of a coherant power due to its inherent, well, randomness, becuase humans can't comprehend true randomness.
> 
> So just "powers that don't follow the same rules as everyone else" is the closest I can think of in Buu's case.
> 
> (Look at Discord, too: He's a Spirit of chaos but if you look at it his powers are't truly random he's just a moderately powerful reality warper.)


okay then.

that actually helps.

doesn't follow the same rules.....not ki-based.... might actually have some powers for that, from some chaos goddess I wanted to make in M&M for a superhero game that never took off the ground. see if that works.

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## Rater202

I'd say that it's still ki, but its ki thats different from other people's ki in a way that can't be understood by people who don't already know and can't be explained by words.

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## Lord Raziere

> I'd say that it's still ki, but its ki thats different from other people's ki in a way that can't be understood by people who don't already know and can't be explained by words.


Okay, but still, different rules.

*Spoiler: Chaos Magic:*
Show


Weakness Curses:
Curses a target in one of various ways to be weaker in some aspect such intelligence, charisma, agility, or what have you until it wears off. if one targets their target and applies it enough, it makes them die from their immune system and organs failing.

Transformation Curse
polymorphs the target into some small woodland creature of the cute variety.

Peaceful Lullaby
uses supernatural singing to put people to sleep or lure them to you like a siren.

Hypnotic Stare
hypnotizes people by looking into their eyes to follow your commands

Trickster's Cure
seemingly heals the target, but then the healing disappears after a few hours, making the wounds return often at inopportune times

Illusion Magic
Generic illusionary control over the five senses. 

Fortune Magic
influences fortune, not in the same way as astrological martial arts, being more gambler and disaster themed.

Unseen Teleportation
can teleport when people don't observe you to wherever else people can't observe you, but might be redundant when normal teleportation exists

Illusion Scout
Creates an illusion at long range that a trickster can see through to scout

Roar of Terror
The user roars with terrifying power, instilling supernatural fear into everyone around them.

Shapeshifting
Turns into other things as a disguise or many other uses

Clumsy Speed Curse
Makes the target incredibly fast but also incredibly clumsy, what seems like a blessing at first quickly becomes dangerous as one often dies from crashing at high speeds

Haywire Curse
makes technology go out of control and on the fritz, disrupting the order of machinery

Moon Magic
controls aspects relating to the moon either conceptually or physically. like madness, oozaru, water, gravity, night and so on.

Disruption:
The power to make disruption waves to make things go out of control, might be a general power that others are more specific expressions of. 



things like that. its a real grab bag, but it should work.

----------


## Hawkflight

Hey, sorry for the delay. My dog injured her leg pretty badly last week, and my free time has been pretty much split between taking care of her and helping out with the added stress of my grandmother fracturing her hip. I'll try to post soon.




> Nyagatos aren't simply cat anthros, Earth already have them.
> Basic abilities are genetic, the ki based one, are martial art based on cooking, if this will intrest her


Yeah, basically that.

----------


## igordragonian

Really sorry to hear Hawk.


MM... so what do we do?

----------


## Lord Raziere

well Hawk seems to be taking a while....so I guess we might have to come up with something in the meantime to happen until Hawk can respond? might've been a bit hasty with killing off the wolf sister there. 

this is why I just wanted to just get to the trial, and not have this be dragged out into some big planning session where people debate endlessly. everything has stopped without something to happen so.....what kind of side story or whatever can we do?

----------


## igordragonian

First thing-
On the long run...
Watch this
https://youtu.be/GrPF8lBi_ts
I think it can help us.
We like to do worldbuilding, idealogy and dramatic dialogues.
It can be great, the problem that quite often it lead to nowhere, so we should treat it as a mini story or battle.
Begining, process and conclusion.
It can be long or short, but it need to have a point.


On the short term, in my pocket I had something I orignaly planned for Apfel, but Ing ditched on me.

So you can use the fun group of Sailor Arcos and co,  and it actually galactic empire centered storyline.
Maybe I will use Snap, because it involve backstory.
Maybe maybe Vodkana, but eh.

In short,the idea it's The Council Of Eyes(I think it what it called?) Sort of the Senate of the empire? Are in great conspiracy, and now they will act.

Something like that.

----------


## Lord Raziere

perhaps. sounds like a plan.

I just really don't want to bother Hawk over this, given what she's going through. nor do I want to move on and leave her in the dust when she comes back because we went to all the trouble of getting to Equestria to hear Celestia's take.

so anything that puts moving on and keeps things in some way going is fine. I just wish I had a better solution to this. or ideas for stuff that could allow people to act without interrupting other stuff. 

so Flake talking to some council? how we doing this?

----------


## igordragonian

The catalys for this story, is seemingly random terrorist(?) attCk which severly injure a member of the council,  and he mamble that he is finally free from the webs of the spider before he die.
Who happen to be there, will start it off. More or less.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay.

I'll just for you to post it then. I was last to post after all and I don't like double-posting.

----------


## Rater202

Possible filler/side story thing: Diamond and Monesco are planning a road trip and want to know if anyone wants to come along.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Possible filler/side story thing: Diamond and Monesco are planning a road trip and want to know if anyone wants to come along.


If I can figure out what people to make available for it, yes. 

Its just that its been a month, and I'm wondering if its wise to continue waiting when Hawkflight seemingly has so many responsibilities holding them up. but then I haven't sent a PM to them about what the status is, but they haven't had any activity on this forum since the last post here so I'm not sure if PMing them will even do anything? agh.

----------


## Rater202

So, Hawk hasn't been online in over a month. I hope she's okay, but maybe it'd be best to just move on?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So, Hawk hasn't been online in over a month. I hope she's okay, but maybe it'd be best to just move on?


Yeeeaah, and she was so looking forward to this saga to.

I guess I'll just....say that Celestia fell asleep because she is still not feeling well and Jade decides to proceed to talk this out with Oxyribo, outside.

----------


## Rater202

Sorry that that took a bit.

I wanted to take the time to make sure I did it in a way that got the point across but wouldn't be interpreted as being too threatening. the idea is to make the Assembly realize that they're killing the Golden Goose, not to declare war on them.

----------


## Rater202

So apparently the Yardratians have a technique that, at either range or on melee contact, allows you to forcibly rip out someone's ki, life-force, souls, or what have you and basically do whatever you want with it.

Vegeta learns this technique in the Galactic Prisoner arc of the super Manga and uses it to take the ki and life-force that Moro stole and return it to the people and planets he stole it from(bringing countless people back to life in the process) and also mentions that if he wanted to he could forcibly split Piccolo back into Piccolo, Kami, and Nail with the same technique.

Yardratians kick ass. Just thought I'd share.

----------


## Rater202

Raz? Since you're planning something with Majins eventually.

Dragon Ball Heroes has an example of a Majin not related to Buu. Now, techncially, Majin Finn is a synthetic creation of Towa, but he's still a being remarkably similar to Buu without being in any way related to him.

The main difference seems to be that while Buu seems to be an entity of pure chaos, with Ki and Magical powers that don't follow the same rules as everyone else, Finn seems to be based on the theme of parasitism. He doesn't have Buu's magical powers, but he can absorb energy and assimilate it into himself.

When he engulfs and absorbs someone, he doesn't just take on their power and gain their mental traits and techniques, he also assimilates their DNA and otherbiological information and merges their ki with his own. Super Buu absorbing Gotenks didn't make Super Buu a Saiyan, Absorbing Piccolo didn't make him a Namekian, it just boosted his power and intellect and gave him their techniques.

But Finn jumping into the GT timeline and absorbing SSj4 Gogeta made Finn count as a Saiyan in addition to a Majin(rather than being a hybrid) and instead of clothing and minor cosmetic changes, Finn fully metamorphosed into Majin version of SSJ4 Gogeta. During this time, Fin himself counted as a Super Saiyan 4.

And the assiilaton of DNA and Ki is permanent. Finn assumes a form identical to his appearance as SSJ4 Gogeta after Gogeta escapes from inside him and retains Gogeta's intelliengece and combat skills, he even creates a stronger version of the Big Bang Kamehameha.. (Refered to as "Dark Gogeta.") In the manga, Finn's power as Dark Gogeta is the same as his power with Gogeta absorbed, but the game treats Dark Gogeta and Finn(Gogeta Absorned) as separate characters and Dark Gogeta is weaker.

Finn also gets stronger if _other people_ absorb _him._ At one point, Towa has Mira absorb Finn so that Finn's Saiyan Biology and Super Saiyan Four form can enhance Mira's own Demonic Super Saiyan State and when they're separated, Finn has absorbed Mira's DNA and gained his combat experiance, techniques, and powers as well.

Finn is also depicted as being able to completly assimilate someone he's absorbed. His "Ultimate" form is achieved by using Mira's ability to ump through time and gain a portion of the power as well as the techniques of someone whose ki he's absorbed in conjunction with Finn's own ability to drain energy to take power, techniques, and biological from "countless warriors" from across time and space and then permenantly assimilate (this is a mouth full) "Transcendant Demon God Xeno Omega Shenron" to gain Eternal Dragon physiology and the combat data of Shadow Dragons as well as a buttload of raw power.

(The Xeno Shadow dragons are the original dragons reincarnated into stronger forms with demon god power, using the Dark Dragon Balls, which were created in conjunction by Demon God Towa and a mind-controlled alternate Dende and then scattered across time to parasiticallty fuse with Kid Buu, Frieza, Cell, Lord Slug, Turles, Jenemba, and Full Power Legendary Super Saiyan 4 Broly. Eventually, Xeno Syn Shenron gets all of that power focused into himself by absorbing the other Balls, then gets some of Demigra's powers added to him to elevate him to the Highest Level of Demon God. Just for the sake of completoion.)

He's also not insane the way Buu is, even in his "pure form."

So, that's what a Majin based on "parasitism" instead of "chaos" is like. If that gives you any ideas for how to depict the majins you're creating with your theme.

----------


## Lord Raziere

the idea of those majins are more they are bunch of children with personalities similar to the elemental forces they embody: Spi-spi is passionate like flame, Zapple likes going really fast and is energetic, Dia is materialistic and vain, Vanele can be cold but also sweet like ice cream, Viva is life and nature, Hexy represents knowledge and magic and thus things that people find scary because she in a way represents the unknown. Salabim is easy because he is supposed to be full on crazy irredeemable supervillain with inspirations like Jevil, Joker, Dimentio and Marx from Kirby due to his enhanced perception of time making him perceive everyone as eventually dying in possibility or another anyways. 

the real problem is Orbiko, since her story is that she somehow absorbed someone for some reason long ago and her perception is altered because of it in some way, but she still the Majin of Space. so its like, what personality suits freaking space? now combine that with the traits absorbed from a person.

thing is I don't know what Orbito's story is yet? there are a few possibilities I was considering but haven't get gotten around to:

-one possibility I was thinking was inspired by the idea of anti-matter, that long ago there was a civilization of anti-matter people in the early stages of the universe who somehow advanced really rapidly. but that due to how anti-matter and matter works, it was only a matter of time before the anti-matter civilization would start meeting the less advanced matter civilizations and annihilate each other on contact. the anti-matter civilization was only one while the matter civilizations were many and the god of destruction at the time judged that one anti-matter civilization wasn't worth the sacrifice of so many matter civilizations still in development and destroyed it but the Orbiko at some point absorbed someone from the anti-matter civilization she befriended before that so she could explore the universe (gods and majins of course are divine/magic and thus are "above" the distinction of anti-matter and matter so they could interact with both, or at least the majin of space and the god of destruction would be)

either that or the matter and anti-matter civilizations would be at war, and the anti-matter civilizations lost and died or something like that

-another possibility is that the the civilization was matter but simply so incredibly advanced in magic and developing so rapidly so early that there was a danger that if they start spreading to other planets they'd screw up the ecosystems of all other life, preventing the development of all the other races, that this precursor civilization would dominate and thus crush potential of any other kind of life flourishing by doing so before it could get going. so the civilization would be destroyed by the god of destruction or sealed away by the gods of creation until the universe was ready for them, but that Orbiko would again absorb someone whom she befriended so they could explore the universe. 

and that the majins would all be sealed away for being troublesome before this downfall happens, Orbiko would come back and then be confused as to where the fallen civilization is, or where all the anti-matter gone or something like that, that her story would be something along those lines, sympathetic yet enough to spark some kind of awesome fight for being emotional about it being gone.....if of course the whole talking them down method isn't done too soon. again.

just something along those lines. needs better working out to my mind, something just.....isn't good enough, as if something is missing from Orbiko to make it work to me.

But yeah, nice to hear about that majin.

----------


## Rater202

How would you feel about Oxy, after a bit of introspection, delegating the management of Oxy city and bequeathing the dragon balls to Pokassuu and then going to otherworld/The sacred land of the Kais to "learn how to be a god" and phase him out/have him take a more passive role in the story?

----------


## Rater202

Does Super Saiyan 4 count as a furry?

More seriously, I am intrigued to see where the plot back on Earth is going.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Does Super Saiyan 4 count as a furry?
> 
> More seriously, I am intrigued to see where the plot back on Earth is going.


*looks at SS4 Caulifla art* ....This is an important philosophical question. the questions to answer is if monkeys are animal enough to count, and if Saiyans count as monkey people enough to count. 
-one can google "female furry monkey girl" and get furry art of it, therefore it is furry
-a SS4 saiyan is incredibly similar in appearance to them. only real difference is color
...therefore I'd safely say its furry. but only when its SS4.

....lets just say, something good is going to happen, but in the furtherance of a goal that isn't as good. 

okay if that is as fast as you say your character can read, I'm not going to argue, I would thought you'd just use ki to superman speed-read through all this in like a minute or something but okay.

----------


## Rater202

I was trying to keep things fair instead of speed reading through hundreds of books in minutes.

----------


## Lord Raziere

okay guys, do you actually care about this roleplay anymore or are just waiting for me to get to something you can respond to, because if your not participating beyond comments or trapping yourself in inaction because your characters not there and can't come up with a basic excuse for them to be involved, that means I'm just roleplaying by myself and thats just sad. I want this to continue but if I'm just roleplaying into the void, I might as well close down the roleplay if your not interested enough to even participate in any meaningful manner. do you just want to get to an arc where your characters will actually do things or not? because I get the feeling that you really aren't interested in this arc that your not caring enough to do anything with it.

----------


## Rater202

I don't always have things to say but I'm willing to go as long as you are.

----------


## igordragonian

I don't feel like I have much to contribute in this specific arc.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well if you guys feel you don't have much to contribute, I don't see why I should continue with this arc, lets end it and get to an arc where you can contribute and it'll be fun. do you want to do World Ender's Club or just skip straight to timeskip?

----------


## igordragonian

World Ender club?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> World Ender club?


good enough for me, lets get this saga done with and move on to that one.

----------


## igordragonian

Ah.
I meant... remind me?

Also if I ever get to Trombone Saga...

I'll probably will have to refit it, because oroginaly I planned it with five of us, each play major characters and minor ones.
Well. I have time, I guess

----------


## Lord Raziere

Oh.

I'm surprised you forgot. its the saga about the gentlemans club that made of like, rich people that worship Beerus and thus like destroying worlds for their sick and twisted fun? y'know, that idea?

----------


## igordragonian

Sorry, was disengaged for quite a while.
But it's an 'ah" moment for me.
Ok. Sound fun. Working on post.

So King Fenrir is dead?
I don't care too much to be honest,  mostly to know if he will be part of the Twin Fist Tournament.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Sorry, was disengaged for quite a while.
> But it's an 'ah" moment for me.
> Ok. Sound fun. Working on post.
> 
> So King Fenrir is dead?
> I don't care too much to be honest,  mostly to know if he will be part of the Twin Fist Tournament.


What, no.

Peaceful protest, the old nobility aren't dead, they just aren't nobility or a king anymore. nobles are just not a valid position to have anymore. thats all.

----------


## Rater202

I'm gonna say that I don't have much to add right now so don't hold up on my account.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay um....hm....I did not expect igor to pull a battle royale....which I can't do. I just....can't do that. it would be too chaotic and this space fortress is way too small for it to work, when I planned for this to be a fun "face them one by one" kind of arc, on various planets.

I've got to stop showing you the villains and thinking you won't attack them immediately. DBZ for some reason assumes everyone will just stand around smack talking and arranging honorable battles before it gets into it, and I keep assuming that structure without realizing it, I should really should've just did my original plan and just have them announce their games instead of inviting Vodkana over. I'll have to concoct a way for the fortress to be fake thing made by the tetris guy, I'm sorry, but the only other option is something anti-climatic, so I can't do that. 

I'm sorry if this retconny  or railroady or whatever, sorry if I'm stomping on the fun your expecting, but a fight of five V thirteen in the World Ender's space fortress would just be too chaotic or either blow up the fortress instantly and most of them would die because I didn't plan this.

like I get your character is doing the smart pragmatic thing, I'm sorry, I just.....can't make it work. this is why I don't try to throw together arcs for this roleplay and why these two sagas have been so badly done, they feel forced because Rater wanted them and.....because Rater isn't actually participating, I'm not feeling as if they are valued so....why am I doing them? if Rater isn't participating, whats the point? and apart of me thinks trying to accommodate Rater on this was a mistake because I shouldn't have to make arcs just so Rater can do non-actions.

So.....whatever I'll do the arc, its already started, but I had a plan, and I have to stick with it to make sure anything good is made from it in this case.

----------


## igordragonian

I didn't planned on Vodkana attacking them...
she wanted to talk.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I didn't planned on Vodkana attacking them...
> she wanted to talk.


Oh uh....hm... sorry I guess I overreacted. it seemed like you were? or maybe I just screwed up.

Sigh....I'm just don't feel like I'm doing well with these....

----------


## igordragonian

> Oh uh....hm... sorry I guess I overreacted. it seemed like you were? or maybe I just screwed up.
> 
> Sigh....I'm just don't feel like I'm doing well with these....


I can relate.
Actually, Vodkana was preparing for afight to ensue, but she actually liked them and wanted to befirend and understand them, but was realistic enough to assume that eventually conflict will arise.

----------


## Rater202

> Oh uh....hm... sorry I guess I overreacted. it seemed like you were? or maybe I just screwed up.
> 
> Sigh....I'm just don't feel like I'm doing well with these....


*offers hugs*

You okay?

----------


## igordragonian

Hey,all good. This is still my dream arc for Vodkana!

Unless irl stuff happens?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> *offers hugs*
> 
> You okay?


I dunno, I just don't feel as if I'm doing as good as I could be on some of these. Maybe I'm just being perfectionist, but I also haven't responded to the marvel one in a while, I should do that...

----------


## igordragonian

I understand, but Gming, isnt' the same as writing a story, as I have also learned.

Also if you preffer we can retcon stuff I won't tell anyone...

and if you preffer a time out for a while, it's also ok/
I want you to enjoy it as well, and I see that you have put thought and imagnation into this.

----------


## Rater202

So, is this game still on or...?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yes. Sorry I've been caught up in a lot of Sounditp worldbuilding stuff and character sheets, which is a level of preparation that far outstrips this roleplays so as to not to make some of the mistakes I've made here. I'll try to post most often here.

Edit: I think the reason Sounditp is doing so well is because things like its custom rules to encourage the style of roleplay we want and the better planning and knowledge of each other involved. so I'm thinking of trying to do a bit of that for this roleplay, y'know see what works and try to adapt it in a different manner here.

of course, Dragonball doesn't really lend itself to the planning type of fighting style, but to epic battles of world destroying speed and power. I want to make a rule to encourage large flurries of attacks and long descriptions that emphasize cool chains of attacks over the boring near single attack posts we've been having since day one. after all, if we keep doing the one action by action play by play, this will get nowhere. also maybe a rule to make power ups and transformations fun? point is I want to better emulate the style of Dragon Ball Z's combat and its destructive escalating nature.

Edit: I think I know what has been missing: while arcs are good, they are not connected. A good reason why early DBZ and DBitp worked was because it had an overarching plot of overthrowing battling Freeza/Hailing which took more than arc to resolve. thats what has been missing: something to tie into something greater and more grand than arc villains, and I haven't been doing any work to make that happen. I think tis time to think beyond mere arcs and start thinking of a greater plot that unites them. thankfully I already have something in mind....

----------


## Rater202

Gonna be completly honest, I have no idea what's going on anymore.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Gonna be completly honest, I have no idea what's going on anymore.


The World Ender's Club has started a deadly game of attacking planets. they're completely unrepentantly evil. its as simple as can possibly be.

I realized that maybe I should start hinting at a wider plot that is above individual sagas. again, simple as can possibly be.

the only reason you don't know, is because your not paying attention, because you decided to stop some time ago, because I did something you didn't like, and thus decided to stop caring aside from being the peanut gallery and insisting on me making these filler arcs so you can play peanut gallery.....which you haven't been doing.

so.

...why should I continue heeding this desire to be a peanut gallery when it has proven a waste of time? If your not going to care don't bother posting, either care enough to participate in things and post, or don't, don't give me this wishy-washy "comment from the sidelines" thing. that isn't going to fly with me anymore, because its clearly not working.

----------


## Rater202

I don't...

I'm sorry.

I retired Oxy and Poka because they aren't compatible with what you're trying to do, but...

I am legitimately having trouble following the individual course of events going on now, and if I can't follow it I can't really contribute.

Sorry.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I don't...
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> I retired Oxy and Poka because they aren't compatible with what you're trying to do, but...
> 
> I am legitimately having trouble following the individual course of events going on now, and if I can't follow it I can't really contribute.
> 
> Sorry.


What do you think I'm trying to do then? Don't give me an "aren't you supposed to know" answer, I want to hear what YOU think I'm doing.

----------


## Rater202

> What do you think I'm trying to do then? Don't give me an "aren't you supposed to know" answer, I want to hear what YOU think I'm doing.


The truth is I have no idea.

All I know is that the direct approach I was taking with my characters repeatedly drailed the stories you were trying to tell, there's clearly a case of things not fitting right, and honestly, part of me regrets coming back in when I was contacted about Oxy's reaction to the other bio-androids because I can't help but think I ruined things.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> The truth is I have no idea.
> 
> All I know is that the direct approach I was taking with my characters repeatedly drailed the stories you were trying to tell, there's clearly a case of things not fitting right, and honestly, part of me regrets coming back in when I was contacted about Oxy's reaction to the other bio-androids because I can't help but think I ruined things.


....honestly I have no idea either. I don't think you were wrong to take the directly approach its just that...I have may have been unconsciously letting my own expectations of how Dragon Ball goes get in way of what the players were doing. (I *think*- not know- it has to do with the DB' story structure: its very fight-focused but there is this lead up to the fight thats important: its like a competition, where the show intentionally hypes up the new foe before they get in the ring so to speak and the characters agonize and wonder over how to beat them, but that doesn't work in a Roleplay where the usual response to a foe is to fight them immediately see: anytime a DnD party comes across a monologuing villain. but I wasn't explicitly trying to do lead up and thought that any old slow moments would do and wasn't realizing what I was supposed to be communicating, in any case, I don't think it'll work even if I more explicitly communicate it) 

when the job of roleplay is to adapt and change to what other players are doing. I guess I wasn't good enough at that and need to improve. so really I should've just allowed you to be direct and rolled with the punches. entirely my fault.

----------


## igordragonian

I think it can be worked around.

Like in One Piece(yeah, again)
Luffy is the kind of protagnist who just run forward- but something always stand in the way- maybe helping someone, or a henchman which he can't simply run around..
sometimes there is block in a 'dungeon' form- a sentient forest, which try to slow him down and make him go lost.


of course, with flight, and teleportation stuff it's harder, but maybe we can work with it?


In my Trombone Saga, the main antgonist simply doesn't exist at the begining, like in the Buu saga

----------


## Rater202

I don't know how relevant it will be but Super Dragon Ball Heroes has established what Ultra Instinct Sign Looks like in various races.

Goku's slightly silvered and slightly restyled hair seems to b unique to Saiyans: Humans/Human form androids, Cell-Type Biondroids, Namekians, Frieza's Race, Kais, and Demons only get silver eyes with no change in hair or appearance.

Majins get _blue_ eyes instead.

Kais, Frieza's race, Demons, and Bio-Androids all seem to keep their transformations/God-forms and apply Ultra Instinct on top of it, and Namekians, Majins, and Humans/Human-based androids might also do the same, which...

Which means that Ultra Instinct is the one thing that Saiyans seem to get the short end of the stick on. Goku's Ultra Instinct Forms have God Ki, but they don't seem to incorporate the traits of his Super Saiyan Forms.

Of course, their hair does change when no one else's does.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Ooooh....do they actually give everyone Ultra Instinct? because if they do, that unfortunately means saiyans gonna get a new upgrade within two years tops to restore it back to Goku winning. If its just some demonstration that doesn't upgrade anybody, I mean that is still pushing it towards "ultra instinct bargain bin sale" status but not as bad. but yeah thats a sign Ultra Instinct is going to become old news sooner or later.

----------


## Rater202

> Ooooh....do they actually give everyone Ultra Instinct? because if they do, that unfortunately means saiyans gonna get a new upgrade within two years tops to restore it back to Goku winning. If its just some demonstration that doesn't upgrade anybody, I mean that is still pushing it towards "ultra instinct bargain bin sale" status but not as bad. but yeah thats a sign Ultra Instinct is going to become old news sooner or later.


It's only the AvatarsBasically, other than Goku and the angels the only people who can do it reliably is the protagonist of this one massively popular and regularly updating card battle game.

Though, Goku did gain the ability to access Ultra Instinct at will during the Moro Arc of the Super Manga, so... Yeah, I expect that it'll be replaced sometime soon.

Or he'll combine it with Super Saiyan or Kaioken.

I expect that this time next year we'll have a "mastered" Ultra Instinct version of the Heroes Avatars, so that's something to look forward to.

I'm expecting Glowing White members of Frieza's Race/Bio-androids and for the male Saiyans to have costume changes that involve taking their shirts off.

----------


## igordragonian

Well,there are more things beside UI.

Like.. in the last chaptet Beerus promise (as tsundere as he can) to train Vegeta with a technique of the Hakaishin that hinted to be parallel to UI.

"Do you really think we destruction gods fight by staying calm?"
Which I liked btw.
Because Beeerus and the other hakaishins fail to master Ui in million yewrs while Goku sort of crush into it...


But in theory anything that has instincts can learn UI.

----------


## Rater202

I'm not sure how relevant this is, since I'm not even sure if this game is still alive, but the last few chapters of the DB Super Manga have established that 1: Namekians are not native to either Universe 6 or Universe 7 and come from a different realm of existence altogether, 2: That there are other survivors other than Guru and Kami of the great calamity and there are populations of NAmekians on other planets, 3: That there's a third set of Dragonballs in Universe 7, and 4: Dragonballs aren't set at 7 per set, the third set we know about only has two balls but can still summon a dragon capable of granting a wish.

(Albeit one much smaller than Shenron or Porunga)

----------


## Lord Raziere

well thats interesting. not sure what to do with it yet.

as for keeping the game alive well......what plot would be interested in? the only thing you expressed interest in actually doing are years away IC, and snarky sideline stuff won't do.

I get that I screwed up again with something during the Onin fight, but its been like a year since that happened, Rater.  I've been doing my best to make sure a similar incident of inconsistency doesn't happen with Sounditp, and I wish I figure out something similar here so we can all enjoy the roleplay....I still have stories I want to tell in it. I don't like leaving things unfinished and Jade to me is a good character I want to keep playing.

----------


## Rater202

It's not that you screwed up, it's just that I... Got behind on the IC thread and when I try to catch up my eyes glaze over trying to figure out what's going on.

that's a me problem, not a you problem.

----------


## Ironsmith

*siren sounds*

What's this? A new challenger approaches!

*Name:* Forga
*Age:* 700-900 Earth years
*Gender:* Female
*Height:* 135 cm
*Weight:* 40 kg
*Species:* Species name unknown; colloquially called Triceratops (due to a more than passing similarity to the Earth creature) or just "Trikes". (Physiology described below)
*Station:* Interstellar vagrant

*Description:*
As before mentioned, Forga resembles an anthropomorphic triceratops, with a distinctive headplate, short, blunt horns, and a bony, toothless beak. Her body is covered in rough, scaly skin, with her stubby limbs ending in three-fingered hands and three-toed feet. She wears a wrapped cloth around her body for modesty, but she doesn't seem to have met a tailor in a few centuries.

*Personality:*
To be roleplayed in; general direction is "grandmotherly".

*History:*
That's personal, and she's not likely to share it without coaxing.

*Story So Far:*
Forga arrived on Trash Planet after an interstellar flight gone awry, and has yet to make an impact (beyond the obvious, Trike-shaped one).

*Abilities:*
Trikes are unique among sapient species in that their bodies produce an energy best described as "anti-ki" (not to be confused with negative or evil ki). This energy annihilates ki and is in turn anihilated by it. Otherwise, for the most part, this energy behaves like ordinary ki, with one exception; the annihilation process also works in reverse, allowing a Trike to draw anti-ki from a donor, resulting in a mutually-beneficial exchange of energy.

Trikes do not require air to sustain themselves, and are resistant to the radiation and extreme temperatures of space, allowing them to travel interstellar distances without the aid of a spaceship. They do not, however, possess any natural ability to fly, often requiring them to be launched by an outside source (i.e. a planetary explosion) to achieve escape velocity, and therefore space travel. Once there, they have a minimal degree of control over their direction of travel; enough to ensure they don't inadvertently skim a planet, but not much else.

Forga herself has a fairly basic array of abilities, loosely equivalent to a human with basic training. Her physiology allows her limited creation powers, which she uses to create tiny worlds during her flights (which are invariably devastated when she lands, but they're good company while they last).

*Other information:*
N/a

----------


## igordragonian

Wow. Someone new!
Welcome!

----------


## Ironsmith

Thanks! Been trying to get back into the FFRP scene for a while now. I'm glad to see a thread like this one up.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I certainly am glad to.

I'm not sure how we're going to make a character of 100 PL work when we're way way past that but.....okay.

lets just hope the continuity isn't a problem.....

----------


## Ironsmith

Simple: she's Bulma/Dende/Krillin. Her job isn't really to fight, but more to be a supporting character that helps give the conflict context.

----------


## Lord Raziere

So make sure powerful evil people ignore her for the most part, got it.

----------


## Ironsmith

> So make sure powerful evil people ignore her for the most part, got it.


I didn't say that.  :Small Big Grin: 

I mean, you read her bio, right? "Mutually beneficial energy transfer". That means there isn't necessarily an upper limit to how much she could empower someone... mix that with a suitably persuasive baddie, and things get interesting.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Persuasive baddies? uh.

Yeah the past villains I've all made because I'm the person who makes most of the villains for this roleplay pretty much, were the hammy crazy kind to reflect the ridiculous nature of evil people willing to destroy planets and black and white nature of the setting. they were charismatic in a manner, but in a blazing fire kind of way: they are so obvious and over the top and ridiculous in their evil that your either one of the people who will flock to them because your just as crazy or your sane like everyone else.

I was mostly talking about not attacking your character.

as for the anti-ki.....I will just assume that it works as you say it does somehow, even if I don't quite understand yet.

----------


## Ironsmith

Ah. Well, yeah... she's really not much of a fighter.

I think it's worth noting that said baddies don't really have to be manipulative, only persuasive. "Give me ki or I'll murder you" is a kind of persuasion still.

----------


## Ironsmith

So, sorry to double post, but it looks like the main thread has kind of stalled out, and we might be able to get going again if we have sone kind of plan (or, if there is one, if we were all in on it). Any thoughts?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Ah sorry, I meant to post, will do so now.

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## Lord Raziere

So to update: I've been thinking about making character sheets for the majins that will be used later, things like Citrine and the daughter of a makiaoshin who serves a foil to Vodkana are ideas that has been bouncing around in my head that I didn't know where to put so I figured, why not introduce them now? they didn't seem to be used for anything else. should probably make sheets for those to.

any ideas you guys have for this roleplay? anything fun you'd like to do? I'm always open to ideas.

----------


## igordragonian

I owe you all a big apology.
Even if the usual.
I try to perfectionist on the Naruto Rp, and lately I feel worse.. and more anxiouse and tired so I keep saying to myself-
'Tommorow I'll invest in it as it deserve"
but wait.
This is DB?
Well.. it's on the same forum, so I feel like it isnt fair to reply here and not there...
in general, other roleplays on giatip I became less active overall because of this guilt.
Try to work through this stupidness...

----

I really like Raziere's villians.
As for anti ki, I had ideas for this, for an arc I half heartly gave up on.
As for fun ideas..
I dont know really. I had meglamoniac idea for a war arc+tournament. But I dont think it will work...

I do like the current arc. Very fun

----------


## igordragonian

> *Cadswallow:*
> Sure, that happens, Masala teleports away before she ever tries to absorb the attack, the planet goes flying, special beam goes through both Cadswallow's attack and his head, killing him stylishly, only having a split second to realize that he was fooled before being sent to the afterlife, and his attack, thrown.....well if you don't do anything it goes sailing off into space in a straight forever, probably until it dissipates from its radiation making it weaker over time.
> 
> If you got any media on like even a smartphone you'll probably hear Douglas and Barnum's announcements, the first, Douglas being a challenge if not to normal fight per se, the second sounding more like Barnum is deceiving people into supporting your cause for some reason. What will you do?


it's for Cell.jr and Fakelight or the other Hakaishins?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> it's for Cell.jr and Fakelight or the other Hakaishins?


Yes.

Is there some other player or character this could possibly be directed at that I don't know about, igor? if so, I would like to hear of their existence. Ironsmith isn't playing a character that can confront them directly so I don't see how it'd be directed at them and the Referas are tied up in other things because Vodkana wanted to take care of it herself. so...

----------


## igordragonian

Well, mostly Vodkana has sent her Hakaishins and herself to diffrent places to deal with more threats on parallel...

----------


## Rater202

Um, Raz... While Ivve admitted to having torule reading the last couple of pages, Android 10 has never actually used the word read, at least in the current Ic thread. Or made allusions to being a character in a roleplay... Unless i did it once and forgot about it.

when she says "there's so much going on that I lose track and my eyes glaze over and then when I can focus again moe stuff's happening," she's referring to trying to keep up with events as they happen, not to reading it.

It's an accurate description of my problem, enough that her apology is also my apology, but she wasn't making a fourth wall comment.

And no, you weren't overreacting. I just felt that Ten wondering if her presence is making the problem harder to solve is a reasonable reaction to the problem running away when it sees her.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay, sorry. I screwed up again. ugh.

I didn't want to actually do that and wanted to introduce Citrine as a recurring antagonist to Jade, so now what? I don't want you to feel as if doing nothing is the best of course of action for you. I never have. So. I'll have to delete my last post at least but what do about the post before it...?

----------


## Rater202

> Okay, sorry. I screwed up again. ugh.
> 
> I didn't want to actually do that and wanted to introduce Citrine as a recurring antagonist to Jade, so now what? I don't want you to feel as if doing nothing is the best of course of action for you. I never have. So. I'll have to delete my last post at least but what do about the post before it...?


I mean, it's fine as is, its just...

This is hard. Why is this hard? I know the idea I want to express but I don't have the words to say it clearly.

I don't want the game to die if you still have stories to tell and I don't won't you to have to change your plans on my behalf.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I mean, it's fine as is, its just...
> 
> This is hard. Why is this hard? I know the idea I want to express but I don't have the words to say it clearly.
> 
> I don't want the game to die if you still have stories to tell and I don't won't you to have to change your plans on my behalf.


I know I'm having the same problem myself. we're both socially awkward nerds, and unlike Sounditp the powers are all up in the air in terms of capabilities, which is causing more problems than solutions. I think we work better when things are laid out and hammered down in terms of detail so that we both understand them. 

and another thing to consider is that roleplaying is an improvisational medium: I HAVE to change my plans. its apart of both being a player and a GM, you literally can't do roleplaying well without being able to roll with the punches. so being worried about that is kind of being worried about doing _anything_.

Edit: I think I have figured out a better way to respond. just let me edit my last post....

----------


## Lord Raziere

I have edited my post to not be fourth-wall breaking just in case no one is checking.....

----------


## igordragonian

I thought Vodkana and Spoon went to the same place togwther? unless I have missed something?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I thought Vodkana and Spoon went to the same place togwther? unless I have missed something?


Douglas Deathingway and Barnum Scamatrillion are on different planets. you sent Spoon to Barnum and Vodkana to Douglas. sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough on the planetary locations. to be clear: one member, one planet, entire arc. I'm not putting multiple World-Ender Club members on the same planet.

----------


## Rater202

Don't read too much into what Android 10 is saying.

----------


## Rater202

So right now I'm thinking, on and off, of ways to make Android 10 a less problematic character.

She was created as a joke, and she's meant as a tag-along, but right now she's a bit too... At the pace we're going, she doesn't work and I don't want you to have to make major changes on my behalf.

Part of that means that she's getting really introspective really fast right now.

----------


## Rater202

...So, I probably should have asked this before posting. Sorry, I can be stupid sometimes.

I was under the impression that, since the Pineapple vs MK Vegeta scenes were posted under the "Jade" abnner that the scenes were happening in the same general area.

Did I overlook one moving away from the other?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ...So, I probably should have asked this before posting. Sorry, I can be stupid sometimes.
> 
> I was under the impression that, since the Pineapple vs MK Vegeta scenes were posted under the "Jade" abnner that the scenes were happening in the same general area.
> 
> Did I overlook one moving away from the other?


No they're still there, and your still watching I just forgot to make Pinappla and MK Vegeta do anything.

Edit: also do you want me to just do this on Earth, or somewhere else to simplfiy all this so we don't keep being confused by all these fights on different planets?

----------


## igordragonian

Are you ok with me using lore from the late manga chapters to give more things for Vodkana and her Hakaishins to devolp?

I have calmed down some of my RP anxieties, I think I can do the Trombone arc if you are intrested.
Maybe to scale it down?
I planned it, when we had many players here, and I wanted to start it with a tournament and multi-front war, and a race for a set of mgcuffins. I planned specific foes for almost every major character we had then, including the Kaioshin character of Raziere that now I can't remember the name.

 with a third act where we fight Trombone more less.

Does any part of it intrest you?

I can also think of something completly diffrent. I literally thought of Trombone YEARS ago.

----------


## Rater202

Recently in Dragon Ball Super, the manga, Vegeta has been training with Beerus to become a God of Destruction.

Vegeta even has a "God of Destruction" form that he begins to access when, after learning how to fight as a Destroyer and generate Destruction energy, e's pushed past the point of even his SSGSS Evolved form where he becomes a proper God of Destruction and gains an ability he dubs "Ultra Ego," an equal and opposite of Ultra Instinct where he hones his conscious mind and base desires to their highest level, magnifying his power level and fighting ability as well as strengthening his Saiyan power at the cost of reawakening and magnifying his repressed bloodlust and desire for battle(to the pint of deliberately letting himself get hit so that he'll grow stronger later.)

Beerus describes this ability as how the Gods of Destruction "steal" Ultra Instinct from the Angels, to compensate for their difficulty in using the form themselves, and it doesn't have any of the drawbacks that Ultra Instinct does... But it's strongly implied that it's not as powerful as Perfected Ultra Instinct and it requires you to be in a destroyer's mindset.

I can't help but get the feeling that at some point, Goku and Vegeta are going to have to fuse again and, be the fusion Vegito or Gogeta, will end up in some kind of balanced hybrid form "where the Ego and the Instinct are both maximized and in perfect balance" or something like that and everybody is just going to either freakout or call bull****.

----------


## Lord Raziere

1. Sure Igor you can use those late destruction things, why not.

2. Well, tell us the specific details Igor, and I think we can work out what we need to.

I'm mostly just not sure of how to proceed with this current arc and feel like I screwed up somewhere. I don't think I put in enough effort and wish that I could fix it so that it works better. it was supposed to be a bunch of card carrying light villains who you could just fight or easily see through their tricks but I think made a mistake by making any tricky villains in there at all, distracted from the point. I don't think I know how to do lighter faire kind of stuff. so if we could out the Trombone arc and get it going it might actually be a change of pace from what feels like I'm floundering.

@ Rater:
Thing is, I don't think Jade would be real interested in either technique. She is too much of a planner to give herself over entirely to Ultra-Instinct, yet she is too humble and not focused on destruction to ever go for Ultra Ego. they're both extremes she'd distrust and kind of screw herself out of because of it, meaning its entirely possible that it screws over her progression to that level of power.

----------


## Rater202

I'm trying to figure out if the Cerealian Dragon Balls would exist in this timeline.

They can be used indefinitely and if you ask for something that they can't grant, they can grant the wish anyway if you're willing to pay a cost.

If they, or a similar set, exist, then a mini-arc of android 10 finding them and using a wish to "strip off the excess frills and be more stable" at the cost of most of her power level becomes an option.

----------


## igordragonian

I do wonder what would happen if Shenron were aksed to make such a wish. But to be honest, I kind of hated this wish working at all


Well, if Solitus Arc were parallel to Cell Arc,
Trombone arc is parallel to Buu arc. Scaled up I guess

Act I: The Tournament Of Twin Fists:
It held once in a thousand years, from all over the galaxy. 
It's tournament of pairs. The Prize is a training session with the Kai Of War, who were sealed away, and can improve anyone's fighting abilities. (His power is over.. concept)

Act II: Suprisngly(?) The Neverending Rebellion has used the tournament as a distraction, and also caged the tournament.
They also up to shengians to off some opponets/heroes. (probably Vodkana as well to my convience)
and the winners will be away for a while.
The Cross Namekian Clan and their allies would hunt for the seven seals(or dragon balls?) to release Trombone.

Act III:  boss fight with Trombone, with an universal threat, and originally there supposed to be many fronts with his main allies, all over the universe, but maybe with so little players, to scale it down to a single boss fight.

----------


## Rater202

> @ Rater:
> Thing is, I don't think Jade would be real interested in either technique. She is too much of a planner to give herself over entirely to Ultra-Instinct, yet she is too humble and not focused on destruction to ever go for Ultra Ego. they're both extremes she'd distrust and kind of screw herself out of because of it, meaning its entirely possible that it screws over her progression to that level of power.


If we wanna get Freudian for a moment: If there's an ultra instinct(IE: ID) and an Ultra Ego then there's probably an Ultra Superego.

Logic and Morals.

----------


## Lord Raziere

@ Igor: I think that the multiple front still work to a degree. here is the thing: I have tons of heroic characters by now:
Jade, Beryl, Pinappla, Masala, Flake, the U13 Supreme Kais, the Unkillables, Yankar

and Jade by the time of the timeskip is going to have opened a martial arts school and be training apprentices in her martial arts style, so even more people to protect the universe. we could still have an epic set piece here, it will just be us largely playing out half the sides of a battle.

@ Rater:
Okay. though it would be a little weird, as both UI and UE would have basis in physical form, but this USE, that would deal with very abstract concepts- morality and logic normally are not very good at handling the fast pace of a battle. Now it could be its some super-hyper predictive logic thing, but if we also want to include the morality part, perhaps it kind of makes you transcend biology into a spirit form as well? because I can see UI and UE being similar due to dealing with the real world and the here and now in some manner, but USE by that logic would be the abstract one and therefore has the least physical effects when used as a technique (and they are all techniques, Masako confirmed it) or perhaps allow the spirit to leave the body to fight people physically better than the body. or if the spirit form is too out there, perhaps something else to with using ideals to fight?

a bit esoteric? yes. not fitting with the other two? a bit. but UE isn't exactly like UI and thats the entire point of it, so why not USE being even more different, since its the farthest thing from instinct?

----------


## igordragonian

I think it's what the Hakaishins TRY to posses, and if to judge by their tournament, I think Beerus have achiveved it to some degree.
I'll even argue that at battle of gods, Beerus played at trying to use UI.
His 'true' fighting style should be more straightforward and less DODGEy.


---

Ah. Cool
I _assumed_ by the way, Jade&Beryl would win, and be occupied with their training, so they can appear later with a powerup.
But it could be any pair, prefferably, relativly main.
----
I had idea, for two of Clarin's brothers, ancestor of Babidi who try to awaken Buu, a 'parody' of Rick from U 3, white changling queen, and army equipped by Lazo with 'Anti-ki' weaponry

----------


## Rater202

I'm not sure I have anything to say right now. If I don't post in the next 24 hours feel free to move on without me.

I'm still paying attention though, so... I'll jump in when I think I can.

I'm still thinking of ways to "fix" Android 10.

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## Rater202

So, I still have nothing for the current scene, but...

What I'm thinking for Android 10 is that I'll send her to Cereal to use their dragon balls to fix the problems she's starting to have problems with, with the fact that this is an aberrant timeline covering up timeline issues, and after sacrificing the lion share of her power to guarantee the wish she'll en up as a "Saiyan with a quirk."

I've established that she, or at least the child she was based on, were Saiyan descended humans, so...

Stripping away the frills would...

Like, you know ho Mira is classified as a demon, but since he's composed of Saiyan and Earthling cells he has Saiyan biological traits? Something similar to that.

she'd end up becoming something that most closely resembled a sayain, but with cosmetic traits and minor quirks from the other things she's composed of.

I can start this mini-arc now, with the note that she thinks that the others can handle it and she feels she'd just get in the way right now, if that would be okay.

----------


## igordragonian

Mira is a new oc? and congrats, raziere for the avatar

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## Lord Raziere

I just felt changing the avatar after so long just having the ronin. might change it to some Exalt though, or into non-naruto ninja. depends on what I feel like. Maybe figure out what I'd look like as a Red/Black/Blue planeswalker or something. maybe I'll go back to the ronin in an updated capacity, who knows?

sorry I was so lazy with my latest post in Dragon Ball, thats what I get for not posting for so long.

----------


## igordragonian

its fine.
I am not sure my post was the best thing ever, I kept pushing away, waiting for the perfect inspartion.. consistency even if a slow one is better.
after all, we are still here.
and that something.

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## Rater202

Rye mostly exists so that this plot isn't just a couple posts of Android 10 running around alone, but she'll probably stick around after the fact.

I've got the mental image of her as a sarcastic straight man to Android 10's antics.

----------


## igordragonian

I dont know this will be fun for you, but prophet Spoon, is stumbling his way to Arcos, he has a bit of an akward teleport ability based on mirror shards.
Though, I don't have a specific idea, what can he add there.

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## Rater202

As an aside regarding planet Cereal.

According to the most recent chapter of the Super Manga, the Frieza Force invaded planet Cereal about three years after Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta(the timeframe is given as "forty years ago" and Planet Vegeta was destroyed 43 years before the year that the current arc takes place in, according to the official timeline.)

And according to the sole surviving Cerealian Namekian, Bardock(who Granolah had earlier had a nightmare/flashback about being confronted by in great Ape form) _savaed_ Granolah rather than being part of the invasion force.

So... Either Bardock survived the destruction of planet Vegeta or Xenoverse is canon.

----------


## Rater202

*Spoiler: Rye*
Show

Name: Rye
Age: Young
Gender: Female
Height/weight: Smol
Species: Cerealian.
Station: Vengence Minded Orphan.
*Spoiler: Appearance*
Show

Child with long, messy teal hair, wearing a tattered robe, with one teal eye and one red eye that lacks a distinct pupil.

*Spoiler: Personality*
Show

Rye is jaded, Snarky, and a bit too willing to engage in violence.

*Spoiler: History*
Show

Rye is the only survivor of a village on Cereal that was destroyed by Space Pirates who came to the planet to try and find the Cerealian Dragon Balls.

After fleeing the ruins of her village, she spent some time living with the Cerealian Namekians, but left them after learning about the dragon balls from them. she spent the next six months working to find the Two Star Cerelian Dragon Ball in a quest for revenge on the Space Pirates.

Then she ran into Android 10 and got bundled up in the eldritch android's nonsense. She never stood a chance.


*Spoiler: Story So Far:*
Show

Coincidentally ran into Android 10 while the other child was searching for the Cerealian Dragon Balls, then shot her when Android 10 ran away with the ball that Rye managed to find.

She then made an informal agreement with Android 10 trading the ball for killing the Space Pirates.

*Spoiler: Abilities*
Show

Rye has a power level of 5 and limited ability to use Ki.

Evolved Left Eye: As a Cerealian, Rye has a highly evolved left eye that allows her to see with incredible precision from extreme distances and pick up on minute details such as the flow of blood within a body, the twitching of muscles, or structural weaknesses within a body or object.

Sniping: As a Cerealian, Rye is very, very good at hitting a target accurately from a far distance. Throwing stones, a bow and arrow, a sling, a slingshot, or a gun, if its a ranged weapon she can hit you with it.
*Spoiler: Other*
Show

Rye carries a laser pistol that she stole from the Space Pirates as she fled her village.

----------


## Rater202

Posting mostly so we don't lose the thread.

As of the latest Xenoverse update, a Sayan Future Warrior can become a Super Saiyan God... Despite Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan SS Evolved already being forms you can get, kind of weird they went out of order.

And at this point I think that it's official: The Furue Warrior has mastered the techniques of literally every major character and most of the minor ones.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah its kind of strange that they took so long to update Xenoverse 2 with stuff like Kale and such.

the Dodge Ball Z short was perfect simply for Freeza learning that he died to Vegeta's son as if thats like, the most horrible thing in the universe. Cell could've twisted the knife even further and went "and really that Trunks from a different timeline so its not even his REAL son if you think about it, but the son of a different Vegeta that died in another timeline!"

I should really detail things like the majins I have planned. also maybe get some ideas of how to do Entropia better, figure out Kalzin and what to do with him, Citrine things like that. maybe figure out Orkomajin 45 better, that was a character that seemed like a good idea at the time but now I'm not sure what to do with her. 

like there is just a lot of things I have planned that need some better thought put into them. and I think Sounditp and my more organized approach to it has messed up the more improvised and freeflowing approach I've been doing with this roleplay before that. so I might have to figure out how to do this again or a in a new way that works that doesn't result in problems.

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## igordragonian

I think, that I at least guilty if being obssesed with world building...

and it's isnt the point in DB.

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## Rater202

I don't really have anything till the next arc after my latest post.

----------


## igordragonian

the nokia hammer supposed to be indestructable..
at least this was the joke.
It's not that important though.

----------


## Rater202

I don't know if I mentioned this, but a bit ago I learned that the Android eleite and Android hero from Dragon Ball heroes are canonically Androids 25 and 26 respectively.

Which tells me that there's a 22, 23, and 24.

----------


## igordragonian

How... cannon is dragon heroes?

----------


## Lord Raziere

@ igor: 
not canon in the least. its purely to cross a bunch of things over and see cool things happen like SS Blue Goku facing Super Saiyan 4 Goku from GT.

@ Rater: 
I mean, those are popular android number for their fan OCs. I'm probably just the latest girl to use them. if they cared at all, they probably skipped over them to not invalidate anyone making them. or they're just planning to use those numbers for a more important thing down the line, they're closer and thus more likely to be made.

----------


## igordragonian

I tried to watch some episodes.
I guess they do use the essence of dragon ball-
flashy battles and more transformations..
it just felt... somewhat empty to me?

Anyway, multiverse can solve any incossitency.

Vodkana is a  bit in a  wierd spot with some lore that was revealed about how Hakaishins function.
But we pulles through. I think.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, Heroes is what you get when someone thinks dragonball is nothing but a bunch of contextless flashy fights for the sake of being cool. Of course its going to be empty, they're neglecting the structure surrounding the fights that make them important. The build up towards the fight and what the reasons for fighting someone is just as important as the fight itself, they give it meaning. If there is no real reason to fight, then its just action figures being smashed against one another. Dragonball may be simpler in how it provides its reasons than others but they still provide reasons. Its connecting tissue. 

yeah, gods of destruction are kind of weird in general and a bit of a problem for any "screw destiny" kind of character like Jade. they're this situation where a person is treated like a force of nature that you can't do anything about when the instinct of people like her are to treat them like any other person and thus beat them up when they do a bad. it makes me wonder how I'll handle it if we ever get to the point where Jade would be powerful enough to fight them.

----------


## igordragonian

Well. Overcoming and humbling the gods is in theme.
Even in DBZ and even in the original:

Kami is an awe of Goku despite looking mysteriouse and powerful at first.

In DBZ King Kai and then Kaioshin follow the same trend 
Goku even threaten Kaioshin to move aside and he does.

Beerus, I think/hope unlike them will be more of a new Vegeta then a god who simply get humbled by Goku.


Well. It depend where you want to take Jade.
Vodkana got her humility lesson at her introduction.

Goku got humbled by Beerus was.. epic,if you remember the hype when the movie was out.



The problem with Vodkana that I have assumed Hakaishins are a specie, just like Shinjins, demons and angels are.

But apparently it's more like Kami- it's a job, that taken by ex-mortals.
It has it's own coolness factor, I guess.
But for Vodkana I teneded her to be a forbiddeb demigoddess.
I think I invented her quite soon after the movie.

----------


## Rater202

I don't have anything I just don't want to let this fall off the page.

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## Lord Raziere

Okay then, no more stalling or dragging our feet, after this fight we're timeskipping ten years as I wanted to do.....what how long ago now? these two arcs didn't feel right to me and I don't think either are were my best and I honestly just want them done so we can move on.

----------


## Rater202

> Okay then, no more stalling or dragging our feet, after this fight we're timeskipping ten years as I wanted to do.....what how long ago now? these two arcs didn't feel right to me and I don't think either are were my best and I honestly just want them done so we can move on.


Fair enough.

I don't know if adult Rye should be Adult Android 10's sarcastic tomboy girlfriend or if she's just the sarcastic best friend.

I just know that she's been trained as a fighter and a ki user solely becuase it's the only way she'd survive the next ten years of cloth proximity to a godlike lunatic.

----------


## igordragonian

I dont mind how many years.
If we are doing the Trombone Saga, Vodkana will be off from at least Act I
I'll probabky focus even more on ber attendants, I am toying with the idea, she would clone a child with combined genes of her own and Hailing

----------


## Lord Raziere

I know that in ten years time that Earth will basically be at a point where there will be no need for political mucking about and will basically utopian or near-utopian. just to sweep that away as a concern since I don't think that aspect ever really worked well.

Earth is going to be more open and connected to the galactic community, Jade is going to have a school and accepting students from across the galaxy, there is probably also going to be new heroes imitating Jade who rose in that time on other planets who can be worfed without concern because doing worfing is the way that DBZ shows off how powerful the villain is, without having the PCs do it, Jade and Beryl are going to be able to fuse consistently, Masala will have worked out a system for temporarily voluntary absorptions to increase her power like transformation or just have a pure form, Jade and Masala are probably going to have both mastered Referential Cosplay Style in different ways, there is probably going to be some bio-androids scattered about society some fighters, some just doing normal jobs (with civil rights addendums covering how fast they reach adulthood for example), Grey Spider will have a heart now, things like that. just in general, society-wise, things will be just as bright or even better than canonical Earth, we're talking wide use of infinite energy engines and senzu beans feeding everyone who can't get fancier food kind of stuff.

----------


## igordragonian

I imagine in that case, King Fenrir can retire and one of his children can inherate him, mostly as a symbol of unity.



So you both up for Trombone saga?

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yes, I've decided to make entirely new sheets for the Referas and Pinappla since I don't even remember them well even now, and I'm debating whether to switch the PL measurements from saga to just stating something like "Solar system" or "planet level" to have a more concrete measurement of how much one can destroy without going into hard numbers.  what do you guys think, should we keep saying stuff like "majin buu/cell saga" level or does labels like planets/solar system/galaxy level mean more?

----------


## Rater202

I'm fine with abstracting power levels down to what you can bust.

----------


## igordragonian

I am not sure if they are as useful:
It's not very clear who at what point can destroy what.

But Arcs give us istimation of what "playground" are we talking about.

I guess most humans like Yamcha are stuck at "Sayian Saga" level.
I am not sure how helpful "bust level"- original Dragon Ball Roshi blasted the moon.

---

What would your "main characters" be?
I am thinking about Vodkana's child and I want him/her to play off in fun/intresting way with the others.

---
I take it as yes for Trombone?
-


working on replies

----------


## Lord Raziere

.....oh right Roshi, that is a good point. the power to destroy a moon does not technically translate to the power to defeat Raditz. nevermind then. saga-based PLs remain.

yeah, I'm probably going to introduce a galactic force of peacekeepers to be our Yamcha. basically a bunch of saiyan-saga level fighters that can take of most threats in the galaxy, but exist only to show off  what the bad guys can do when we get involved. 

as for main characters......eh....I do still have an arc planned for Jade, its just taken a ridiculously long time to get to it. but for the timeskip in general I do have some idea for her being a more experienced sensei type of person now training younger warriors to protect the world in a school of martial arts. one of them basically being someone similar to an Otsutsuki. because in Naruto that sort of character is a godlike being you can only hope to beat through extreme measures. here, they're just another student. may had other ideas but I'm probably going to cut most of them and come up with new ones to focus on quality over quantity. the otsutsuki-esque character is one of the few I even remember so they're in. 

yes for Trombone as soon as we finish this arc, yes.

----------


## igordragonian

Hmm. Would Vodkana's child go there?
I just wonder how to design him/her/they

----------


## Lord Raziere

well its a school for fighting and martial arts. there would classes to start with the basics sure, but Jade herself would be teaching the more advanced stuff to the students who are ready for it- the ones who show potential. she can't teach all of them after all and need to look for those who show promise to be the next protectors of the universe. it would depend on how talented and mentally ready they are which classes they would get into.

----------


## Rater202

What would the age range for the school be?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> What would the age range for the school be?


teenagers, so 13-18? mostly that, as Dragonball training tends to extend past that and far into adult years if Goku the super-legendary genius fighter is still training to get more powerful at his age. 16 would probably be the minimum age to be allowed to get thrown into actual life or death fights though. 

its kinda of a meta inspiration-commentary from this like MHA or Naruto where the action shows like have moved to that kind of setting/age range for its protagonists. basically its My Martial Artist Academia.

----------


## Rater202

Okay, I was just wondering if it would make sense for Rye to have been a student at some point.

If it's a ten-year time skip she'll be 20 when we pick up.

----------


## Rater202

A random observation I feel like sharing.

In Dragonball Z Abridged episode 11, while in the hospital Goku says "all my friends are already here" in response to being told he has another visitor.

Mr. Popo responds with "not all of them."

This phrasing in that context(specifically, Goku saying "already") would indicate that Popo considers himself to be one of Goku's friends.

...And then later in the series, we see that Popo is much more lenient with Goku than he is with anyone other than Kami(or Dende)

Just thought that observation might be apreicated

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, its one of those subtle details about DBZA: Goku is definitely not smart about most things....but after the first season, they do nail his friends being actual friends with Goku while also keeping their interactions humorous. they know his flaws and put up with him but they don't hate him for it like real friends would. also, Popo's words could refer to Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu not being alive and thus not being in Goku's hospital room. 

anyways. I should get to work on various things that need to be worked on for this, new sheets for the Referas, the Majin sheets, figuring out the arcs I have planned, its been so long and the roleplay has moved so slowly that all my plans just kind of fell off my radar. so I'll have to refigure out everything.

----------


## igordragonian

I have some wierd ideas..

I was thinking of shipping Spoon and Dishanna, and their child will be mixed with Hailing's genetics.
Maybe?

I was thinking, maybe he would be super strict and stiff, trying to not to dissapoint..

----------


## Rater202

Information about Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero.

According to the second and third trailers, the two new androids seem to legitimately believe that they're the good guys, Pan gets kidnapped by the reborn Red Ribbon army, and Broly is in the movie in some capacity.

(Some people are speculating that Goku goes to Visit Broly or that Broly has been convinced to train with Goku and Vegeta to explain the absence of Goku and Vegeta in the plot.)

The trailer also implies that Gohan has achieved some form greater than what he possesses in his ultimate form... But we don't actually see a transformation in the trailer so it could be a fake-out(all they say is that it's a never-before-seen evolution. I'm still hoping for Pan to get a 'leave my daddy alone' moment.)

And it makes a reference to the birth of an ultimate evil and the final trailer ends on a scene of some kind of high-tech container malfunctioning while people panic.

Fans are speculating that it's a reimagined Android 13, a resurrected or recreated Cell, or the canon version of Android 21 but that might just be wishful thinking.

Piccolo is shown in a form that makes his skin lighter and yellowish while also making the skin on his arms smoother, with promotional materials referring to it as his "Potential Unleashed" form but it isn't clear if he had his potential unlocked by Elder Kai or if he just broke into some form that removes his limiters while training.

----------


## igordragonian

thank you for the update!

----------


## igordragonian

So I take it we are ready for Trombone Saga?

----------


## igordragonian

working on a very long post.....
+character sheet for Vodkana's son
+maybe for more characters.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah, I've got to post new sheets for all my characters to....

how to do this?

*Jade Refera*
*Spoiler*
Show


*Age:* 39
*Gender:*  female
*Height:* 5.5ft
*Weight:* 150pds
*Species:* Cyborg Human
*Station:* Master of the Referential Cosplay School of Martial Arts

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show

She has tomboyish orange hair, green eyes, wears blue pants, green shirt and a leather jack with boots.



*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
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Jade Refera while still the same snarky cynical pragmatist as ever, has mellowed out over the years and is more relaxed now. She is now more tricksy and more of a troll in a fight, more willing to play around with the foe to psychologically screw with them, but isn't afraid to drop all nonsense and just end them if things get serious. She is wiser in her mentoring, but also less direct and mischievious towards her students.unless she needs to be straight with them.


*History:* *Spoiler*
Show

Once a post-apocalyptic survivor of another timeline, Jade has become a worldly hero to the universe she now inhabits, famous for her defeat of Emperor Hailing. She has established a School of Cosplay Martial Arts to teach people how to fight against the evils of the world, and is now seen a figure of legend to those who to come to learn from her.


*Story So Far:* *Spoiler*
Show

You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Base Power Level: Super Perfect Cell level
Goddess of Hyperdeath Form: Majin Buu level

Drainer Cyborg:
Has cybernetics that allow her to drain energy from people and ki attacks, but can't defend against attack from behind her. Also gives her increased durability and environmental protection so that she doesn't need to breathe in space and can survive in hostile alien environments. She can only use energy drain against a ki attack 3 times per battle. Furthermore at her level of power she does not gain significant increases of power from draining ki anymore, as to make any difference she'd have to start absorbing entire stars. 

Efficient Minimalism:
Jade due to her great power and will to protect the world around her as developed a tendency to using as minimal force as possible to defeat her opponents, either because they are weaker than her or because she doesn't want to cause collateral damage. 

Determination:
Capable of withstanding extreme hardships and pain for her goals, especially if the world or her loved ones is at stake and even heal herself from her wounds. 

Trace Laser:
Has mastered her attack into incorporating it any cosplay she is using, able to trace and follow any target, spread into entire armies of enemies, and other flexible tricks

Destructo-Disc:
Can use the technique for both throwing as projectile and as a shield to block, with fine telekinetic control over it. 

Instant Transmission:
has mastered the technique and can teleport anywhere within a universe. She can only use this to dodge up to twice per battle.

Master of Referential Cosplay style:
Has a cosplay prepared for many situations such as: Muffet Cosplay, Harry Dresden Cosplay,  Neku Sakuraba Cosplay, Sith Cosplay, Street Biker Cosplay, Jotaro Kujo Cosplay, Ronin Cosplay, Wild West Cowgirl Cosplay, Black Knight Cosplay, Old School Ninja Cosplay, Obito Cosplay (can only turn intangible 5 times per battle) 

Goddess of Hyperdeath Cosplay:
Jade Refera's ultimate cosplay, it is a reference to Asriel Dreamurr's final form the God of Hyperdeath. It represents her growth from just being a selfish cyborg pragmatist into becoming a true hero, and radiates the majesty of idealism, hope and compassion with its rainbow light. 


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.



*Beryl Refera*
*Spoiler*
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*Age:* 39
*Gender:*  female
*Height:* 6ft
*Weight:* 160pds
*Species:* Cyborg Human
*Station:* Member of the Referential Cosplay School of Martial Arts

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Beryl has long black hair, cheerful blue eyes, and wears blue knitted sweater, knitted beanie cap and tan pants, projecting an appearance of utter wholesomeness.



*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
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Beryl has ever is a constant source of optimism and idealism, staying a steadfast constant of hope to all those who interact with her.


*History:* *Spoiler*
Show

Like Jade, she is from a post-apocalyptic timeline and became a hero here, doing her best to protect those around her. 


*Story So Far:* *Spoiler*
Show

You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Base Power Level: Super Perfect Cell level
Chara Cosplay Form: Majin Buu level

Drainer Cyborg:
Has cybernetics that allow her to drain energy from people and ki attacks, but can't defend against attack from behind her. Also gives her increased durability and environmental protection so that she doesn't need to breathe in space and can survive in hostile alien environments. She can only use energy drain against a ki attack 3 times per battle. Furthermore at her level of power she does not gain significant increases of power from draining ki anymore, as to make any difference she'd have to start absorbing entire stars. 

Determination:
Capable of withstanding extreme hardships and pain for her goals, especially if the world or her loved ones is at stake and even heal herself from her wounds. 

Hopeful Optimism:
Beryl is a hopeful, empathetic and optimistic person, capable of bringing cheer and hope to anyone in the times of greatest despair

Wide Blast:
Beryl can fire a powerful beam at someone that is wide and destructive, but by now Beryl has refined her control of it to have spirit-bomb like properties and thus only harms evil people.

Spirit Bomb:
Beryl is one of the few people pure enough to use this technique to end the lives of the truly evil and despicable, gather energy from all the world to throw a giant ball at them- and with her fame and connections to Jade, most people will listen.

Chara Cosplay:
Beryl's ultimate cosplay, it is a reference to Chara. It represents her growth from being a passive optimist into being a true strong hero and powerful warrior. It radiates Determination with its crimson light. 


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.



*Masala*
*Spoiler*
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*Age:* 28
*Gender:*female
*Height:* 5.5ft
*Weight:* 150pds
*Species:* Majin
*Station:* Referential Cosplay Martial Arts Master

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Masala has cyan rubbery body, wears genie clothes and has long tentacle hair full of swhirls. 



*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Masala is a cheerful and hopeful yet snarky majin, inheriting a mix of her of her mother's personality traits but loving a good fun fight when she can get one


*History:* *Spoiler*
Show

After coming from an alternate timeline, she was adopted by different versions of her parents and now fights alongside them. 


*Story So Far:* *Spoiler*
Show

You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Base Power Level: Super Perfect Cell level
Consensual Absorption Level: Majin Buu level

Majin Biology: 
Can regenerate, and reshape her form in various ways as well as use wild magic to do various things. 

Consensual Temporary Absorption:
Masala has set up a system where she temporarily absorb others who are willing to empower herself like a super form, leaving a small bit of herself on them that teleports them to her and absorbs them at the same time to fight. 

Consensual Absorption Forms:
-Pinappla Masala
-Grey Spider Masala

Unlimited Cosplay Works:
Masala has mastered Referential Cosplay style in a different way, able to conjure endless numbers of cosplay weapons to fight and even make something akin to a reality marble of nothing but cosplay weapons, that pulls people into her own battlefield that does not affect the outside world, allowing her to fight at full force 


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.



*Pinappla*
*Spoiler*
Show


*Age:* 28
*Gender:* Female
*Height:* 5ft
*Weight:* 140pds
*Species:* Saiyan
*Station:* Chillout Fist Master

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show

She has black medium length hair, black eyes, fair skin and wears black and green saiyan armor with blue shorts. Has a monkey tail. 



*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
Show

Pinappla is more confident and calm now as an adult, and enjoys a good fight like any saiyan but knows from Jade not to take such a desire too far. She enjoys using Chillout fist as it allows her to fight without getting angry, keeping her Legendary Super Saiyan form in reserve as a last resort. 


*History:* *Spoiler*
Show

What has happened to your character before the game and made them who they are?


*Story So Far:* *Spoiler*
Show

You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Base Power Level: Super Perfect Cell level
LSS Power Level: Majin Buu Level+

Chill Out Fist Mastery:
Pinappla is now a master of the Chillout Fist, a martial art of relaxed swaying movements and chill attacks that relax the foe as well to make them drop their guard or just freeze them, and various other techniques. 

Pierce Pistol:
Can fire a straight quick piercing beam at people with two fingers in emulation of Jade's  Trace Laser. 

Legendary Super Saiyan Form:
She has mastered its power now, still going into a hulking form and a form of rage but able to direct it at her enemies without harming her allies. She can't focus on much else other than o while in it though.


*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show


Anything you can't fit to the brackets above, such as equipment or property your character owns.

----------


## igordragonian

What the name of your Shinjin character?
Vodkana's partner.

----------


## Lord Raziere

..........darn it, even I forgot, hold let me check. 

Tarasai. his name is Tarasai. yeah, I should make an updated sheet for him, also add Berade as a fusion form to the Refera sheets. 

*Spoiler: Supreme Kai Tarasai*
Show


*Tarasai*
*Spoiler*
Show


*Age:* 1000
*Gender:* Male
*Height:* six ft tall
*Weight:* light
*Species:* Shin-Jin
*Station:* Northern Supreme Kai

*Description:*
*Spoiler*
Show


He has purple skin, long flowing white hair, wearing a kai clothes in black and white colors. He is a lean six feet tall



*Personality:*
*Spoiler*
Show


He is serene and humble, eating only what he needs and using his powers for when they are needed. He has rejected the title of god for the sake of being a humble traveling warrior, he is polite to everyone and shows kindness where he can. He of course has his own opinions on the Kais and how they run things, but at the same time havent forgotten what they taught him and thus he works to try and prove that one can influence the world in positive ways without messing it up.



*History:* *Spoiler*
Show


Shin-Jin Tarasai is destined to become the next Northern Supreme Kai. This is just fact, no matter how much he tries to deny it. A young Shin-Jin, he was born only one thousand years ago to finally start replacing the Supreme Kais lost to Majin Buu, along with three others to learn as apprentices from the current Supreme Kai, who was once the East Supreme Kai but is now the Grand Supreme Kai in all but title. Of course, the obvious questions began popping up: Why only sit here and watch? Why not do more to bring justice? All those dangerous thoughts. Of course the answers are the same: because we must be wise, because we cannot interfere in what potentially might change things for the better without our help, because we cannot show favoritism, because we are not Gods of Destruction and thus do not punish those under us. Leave such a job to Beerus, they say.

The Kais job, is to Create. To Preserve. To Guide. To Watch. Yet Tarasai feels empty. He feels guilty that all he can do is watch. What powerless existence is to just and watch civilization go by while atrocities occur, sipping tea, not doing anything to make it better themselves? What sad excuse is this "wisdom" to not interfere? Was too much caution and wisdom simply cowardice in disguise? He was too humble to think he had all the answers. So he respectfully bowed to the Supreme Kai and said "I must apologize, Sensei. I am giving up the way of the Kais, the way of godhood. I must search for answers myself, go a journey and see where it takes me. I will walk, lowly and humble through the universe saving it one village at a time to search for my answers. I hope you can forgive me." The Supreme Kai thought about this for a moment knowing that all Kais were destined from the day they were born to fulfill the role of Kai, then allowed him to leave.

Thus does Shin-Jin Tarasai don a normal flowing white qipao, unadorned. Thus did he only use his matter materialization to conjure only rice and water. Thus does he only use his Instantaneous Movement to go from one planet to the other once he is done walking across it. Thus did he fight evil one step at a time, hoping to find his answer by living humbly among mortals. Now he has become the Northern Supreme Kai to govern the universe better...hopefully. 



*Story So Far:* *Spoiler*
Show

You can summarize and update here what has happened to your character during the game.


*Abilities:*
*Spoiler*
Show


PL: Perfect Cell Level

Fighting Style Of the Kais:
His stance and fighting style are very formal, practiced and elegant. He is trained in the ways of the Kais, and thus emphasizes taking down your opponent with minimum use of force, ki efficiency, spirituality, tranquility in battle, defensive moves, and most of all, grace. He has various physical strikes to take down his foes non-lethally.

Superb Ki Control:
Has finely tuned senses for detecting ki and suppressing his own divine ki so that other gods cannot detect it, as well being able to charge and recover his ki very fast. Furthermore his attacks are so well disciplined and controlled that he doesn't destroy the environment around him when he fights or powers up, and can regulate his ki to fight evenly with people less powerful than him. He barely has any battle aura. 

Healing Technique:
He can heal other organic beings, does not extend to cyborgs or androids.

Matter Materialization Of the Kais:
As a Shin-Jin and thus one of the Gods of Creation, he has a natural talent for creating things which he can do effortlessly, unlike other races this ability has grown into power to create new planets and even the beginnings of life. 

Kiai:
Tarasai rarely uses Ki Blasts. Instead he uses Kiai as his normal ranged attacks, basically shockwaves generated by pulsing ki through the air. Because of his great ki-control he can fine tune these shockwaves to attack in creative and deadly ways:
-Shockwave Palm: A basic technique, he basically does a jedi force push at his foe
-Shockwave Sphere: a defensive technique where sends out a shockwave in 360 degrees to send his foes flying away from him and deflect ki blast attacks. 
-Distance Fist: He focuses his Kiai to basically use his melee attacks from a distance.
-Explosive Glare: His eyes flash for a moment before an explosion of Kiai erupts near his foe out of nowhere, with no other indication that an attack is happening. 

Telepathy:
Is well-versed in long range telepathic communication and basic mental combat. 

Telekinesis:
mostly useful for carrying things around and such, he mostly uses it in combat to try and grab his opponent in thin air to take them down non-lethally, or to trip them so that he can gain the upper hand.

Flight:
he flies quite gracefully.

Instantaneous Movement:
How he gets around. Is basically the Kai's much better version of Instant Transmission.

Flowing River Dragon Fireworks:
His only ki blast attack, he shapes his ki into a big blue serpent-like dragon that gracefully lashes out at his foe like flowing water then explodes into a shower of smaller ki blasts that then explode as well, much like fireworks. He uses this attack as a last resort. Even then, he has enough ki control that the explosions barely damage the environment. 

Rippling Pond Style:
Knows Geopuncture, Water-Sculpting and Weather-Massaging and Planet-Pushing all of which are subsets of this martial arts style based on the most sophisticated and highest forms of energy manipulation to fight others taught only to the kais. The other three bend matter, space and time respectively. 



*Other information:*
*Spoiler*
Show

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## Rater202

I'm mostly posting so we don't lose the thread, but apparently, there's an image going around of what looks like a shirtless Raditz in a stasis pod in the designs of the upcoming movie.

It's *entirely* possible that it's a fake, in fact it's highly likely, but some people are wondering if it's a leaked image from the movie and the revived Red Ribbon army wished back Raditz or recovered his body and turned him into an android.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Lets get creating some new students with some quick sheets:
*Spoiler: Habana, Saiyan-Tuffle Hybrid Prodigy*
Show

Name: Habana
Overview:
She is a four foot tall 14 year old saiyan-looking girl in newer saiyan armor. While she has a big ego and arrogant for achieving super saiyan 1 and 2 so early, she feels bitter that she was born without a saiyan tail unlike her peers. Some say she represents the potential saiyan hybrids can achieve and high expectations are placed upon her.
Abilities:
Base PL: Semi-Perfect Cell
Super Saiyan 2 PL: SS2 Vegeta

Tuffle Intelligence:
Has inherited her tuffle side's genius intelligence and can apply it both in and out of combat to great effect

Super Saiyan Forms
She can go super saiyan and super saiyan 2, marking her as incredibly talented for her age, but also making her incredibly arrogant and with a high opinion of herself.

Ki Techniques:
Can ki whips to grab her foes, ki blades to stab them, place little bits of ki into people to make them explode on a delay


*Spoiler: Neonica, Yellow Princess Bio-Android*
Show

Name: Neonica
Overview:
Neonica unlike most of her sisters has volunteered to actively want to fight and protect people, fighting joy in fighting and purpose in defending the world, seeing her power level as normal compared to the bio-androids she grew up with.
Abilities:
Base PL: Cell Junior

Bio-Android:
Is incredibly durable, tireless and regenerative with two infinite energy engines, and possesses numerous ki techniques inherited from others.

Telepathic connection:
Can call upon other Yellow Princesses for help with her naturally designed telepathy that connects her to all her sisters for combination attacks that are far more powerful together than her PL suggests.


*Spoiler: Itokomiko, Bambooite and Kaguya Expy*
Show

Name: Itokomiko
Overview:
She is a completely pale-white teenager of 12 from the planet Bamboo with long straight silky hair, wearing white robes. Her name means "Beloved Child of a God". She is considered to be the most powerful member of her species to ever exist, having been born with the incredibly rare Eye of Eternity. 
Abilities:
Base PL: Perfect Cell

Ki Techniques:
Can fly, fight using martial arts, sense energy and such. 

Eye of Eternity:
A third eye that she possesses, replicating all the feats of Hagoromo's Rinnegan, the Rinne-Sharingan and the Tensaigan. Thus she can trap people in powerful illusions, bring people to her personal pocket dimensions, absorb ki, fire big black balls of ki, become a shadow, control forces of repulsion and attraction, manipulate her own bones and disintegrate those she touches with them, regenerate, see in 360 degrees and other extrasensory abilities, use her hair as a weapon, teleport, manipulate plant matter and so on 



*Spoiler: Rush, Keldasian (Hit's species)*
Show


Overview:
Through a lot of training and fighting on Keldas he has earned the right to be one of the first Keldasians to be trained off-planet by someone stronger than them. Being 18, he is the adult of the group and looks down upon the younger students despite them nearly as power or more powerful than him.
Abilities:
Base PL: Semi-Perfect Cell

Incredible Speed:
His fighting style is based on being incredibly fast and precise in his attacks, and takes advantage of that.

Red Blossom Style:
Can inject ki into peoples bodies to make them explode from within through his fingertips

Time Skip Technique:
Can stop time for 0.1 seconds



*Spoiler: Gigara The Underdog*
Show


Name: Gigara
Overview:
Gigara is a green humanoid alien, at age 14 with blue hair and red eyes. She grew up on a radiation blasted planet of Gredor-4. She never knew her parents, had to survive in a desert and the radioactive environment interacting with her biology was slowly killing her, shortening her lifespan. The medical and rescue branch of the Galactic Defense Force managed to find her in time to treat her but the only treatment that could work was cybernetics that granted her incredible power and now she is being sent to Jade to teach her to control it.

Abilities:
Base PL: Semi-Perfect Cell

Infinite Energy Engine:
Has limitless energy and other cybernetics that keep her alive and in fighting condition, as well allowing her to fly and blast energy at people, but hasn't been trained at all

----------


## Rater202

Sorry about the lack of replies.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Just to let everyone know I'm going to be gone from monday till friday for a trip, so I'm going to make some replies just to make sure thats taken care of before I do so.

----------


## Rater202

So Superhero is out in Japan*Spoiler: What little I've scrounged up*
Show

Android 21, or at least her original human form, is now officially canon. Her original name was Vomi.

Dr. Hedo, the scientist who created the new androids, is Gero and Vomi's grandson via an unnamed second son of theirs.

The mysterious third android hinted at in the trailers is called Cell Max and appears to be a recycling of the concept behind Biobroly.

Continuing the theme of vanity and frivolous use of the dragon balls from the last movie, Bulma wished to have a bigger ass.

In addition to having his potential unlocked, Piccolo apparently wished on the Dragon Balls for an increase in power which gave him a transformation that turns him orange.

In the climax of the film, Gohan is pushed to the limits and enters a form called "final" Gohan that... I' have no idea what the details are but he has red eyes and long silver hair.

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## igordragonian

is it aviable on crunchyroll or something?

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## Rater202

> is it aviable on crunchyroll or something?


No, it only just came out in theatres in Japan.

But the English dub is set to premire in August, so...

...Charles Martinet, the voice actor of one Dr. Mario Jumpman Mario, is set to voice the main bad guy.

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## Rater202

*Spoiler: Spilers for ht emovie, now that more details are clear*
Show

Apparently there's a level beyond "Full Potential Unleashed" but it seems to be based on the individual.

Piccolo's is called "Orange Piccolo" because it turns his skin orange and he's not very creative.

Gohan's is called Gohan Beast becuase Gohan's always had a raging beast within him and now he can le it out at will.

Both forms put their respective users in the same ballpark as Goku and Vegeta and Gohan in particular is once more the strongest in the universe.

Both forms are described as an "evolution" of the potential unleashed state.

Piccolo got his from a wish on the Dragon Balls, and Gohan got his when he flashed back to every time someone died for him. Gohan's is also said o be the result of Gohan's many repeated "awakenings" starting from a young age where some of his limitless latent power was drawn out either by his own emotions or the action of others.

Toriyama as also said Gohan can evolve further, but did not specify how and noted that he's not sure what it would look like.

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## igordragonian

I dont feel well.
Sorry.
But at least I started seeing doctors...
I hope by tommorow night to reply.
Sorry again

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## Lord Raziere

its all good, Igor. things are probably rough for all of us. don't worry about it

*Spoiler: manga spoilers*
Show


Aeos might just help explain a lot of things happening in this roleplay, oh my god this guy could solve so much problems I've been having, you have no idea.

also DB is finally getting to Marvel/DC levels of ridiculous with this thousands of timelines super tournament thing. I knew it would come to this eventually. I knew it.

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## Rater202

I legitimately don't know why it took me so long to reply and offer my apologies.

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## igordragonian

finally watched the super super hero movie
*Spoiler*
Show


And I LOVED it.





*Spoiler: manga spoilers?*
Show


are you talking about the Granolah arc?

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## Lord Raziere

No, just some god of time, named Aeos, trying to destroy a bunch of timelines. it just helps a lot with something I have in mind

*Spoiler: My thoughts on Superhero:*
Show


The Magenta did a good job of spinning the whole events to make the Z-Fighters seem evil.

Piccolo on the other hand lies and manipulates Gohan while making his Pan get in on the manipulation, all to make Gohan strong....and gets away with it. though to be fair, it turns out Gohan is just a Nerd Goku: just replacing "too busy training to take care of his kid" with "too busy researching to take care of his kid". history doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme. 

Cell Max is kind of a meh foe. he is just there to make No. 2 sacrifice himself and make Gohan go Ultra Instinct. I mean it works I guess. they spent a lot of time on set up and making the Gammas sympathetic that I guess they had no time for anything better than "giant semi-perfect cell". 

Gotenks is as usual near inconsequential. sure he technically has a contribution but if you removed him and gave Gamma 2 the head cracking bit, I think it'd make his sacrifice have more weight. I don't think Gotenks added anything to this film, to be honest. 

Orange Piccolo is cool, he finally gets a transformation. Gohan goes Ultra Instinct. par for the course I guess.

they did however make sure the whole thing is resolved without Vegeta and Goku helping. credit to them, they did make it happen. the Z-Fighters are capable of winning without their two best fighters showing up every time. I like that. 

Pan is adorably badass, that is all. 

my pattern recognizing part of my brain is seeing how all this is just the Cell Saga reprised with Gamma 2 being the Android 16, and Hedo and Gamma 1 being the ones who get to survive, while Piccolo plays the Goku role to Gohan....but with an unexpected callback to the Raditz fight in the final moments, with Piccolo being on the receiving end, and Gohan being the special beam cannon firer, but Piccolo survives because he can stretch his arms while Gohan proves he has been training in secret meaning he isn't just researching, so I guess that saying "hey, give Gohan some credit here". which y'know, fair I guess.

overall a good dragonball film.

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## Rater202

It should be noted that Aeos is from the Dragonball Heroes Manga, not the Dragon Ball Super manga.*Spoiler: Super Hero*
Show

That wasn't Ultra Isntinct.

The form is officially called Gohan: Beast.

It's essentially an evolution of his Ultimate form, drawing out even more of his infinite untapped power and focusing it to a much greater degree.

Per Toriyama in an interview, it's based on the concept of how Gohan has repeatedly had his "latent power" awakened. By rage, by magic rituals, by the power of others, by being in danger, and yet always still seems to have plenty more to draw out.

Toriyama has also said that this is Gohan's current strongest form... But has also stated that Gohan can evolve even further and he isn't sure quite how to draw that yet.

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## igordragonian

*Spoiler: super hero*
Show



people had issues with this depiction of Gohan, but to me it make sense in many ways.
I over all enjoyed it, to wish for a powerup isn't something I am fan of, but at this point it's a staple of Dragon Ball super
also 'orange' isnt the hypest name ever- I would preffer something like
'Dragon Picollo' or something.

But it had a general nice vibe, that I sorely missed.





*Spoiler: manga*
Show


So Granolah arc is over.
Black Freeza is hyped, but I am afraid to get overly excited.

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## igordragonian

Working on replies- slower then I would like, but working.
Also, tommorow I have an operation.
(relativly minor medical issue, I should have done few years ago, and it gotten worse.. it should be fine)
I am not sure in what state I will be after, if I am ok enough I'll reply ASAP.
Trying to make good replies, on both games.

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## igordragonian

small update- I am recovering, and will be working on the replies soon.

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## Lord Raziere

I'm thinking of Carmita having this fall to being some demon of Envy towards Jade, being envious of her greater success and place in history, and that will probably involve her doing losing to someone among the Trombone guys without dying so she can make a deal with a demon to try and become a greater threat later on.

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## mati2002

This way, we can keep track where everyone is, since it's not economical to make a new thread for every little place.

- - - Updated - - -




> Okay, sorry. I screwed up again. ugh.
> 
> I didn't want to actually do that and wanted to introduce Citrine as a recurring antagonist to Jade, so now what? I don't want you to feel as if doing nothing is the best of course of action for you. I never have. So. I'll have to delete my last post at least but what do about the post before it...?


why sorry,,, bro are you still paying

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## igordragonian

Who is Uumf?

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## Lord Raziere

they're just some banned spambot igor, ignore it.

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## igordragonian

I'll work on big update next to move things around. Hopefully by tommorow itnwill be ready

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## Rater202

So Ten is planning to kill the White Sultan as soon as the Tournament is over now.

Whether or not she follows through with it is a differant matter, but...

Is everyone back in their orignal body now?

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## igordragonian

I think I'v said everyone are back in their bodies.
But yes


Also, feel free to murderhobo I guess. Some DBZ charqcters are like that

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## igordragonian

I see you haven't replied- I can skip/speed it up-
this part should be just silly fun.
If you preffer to skip to the actual tournament- we can montage everything else.

If you dont care for the tournament at all, I guess I can skip it too.
The specific goal is to isolate the strongest heroes while the baddies take a move, so it's up to the more new heroes to try and stop them.
(or heroes who didnt got much shine)

And the winner couple (probably Jade and Beryl?) will get a powerup that would help at the final battle.

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## Lord Raziere

oh whoops, I forgot to reply to that, SORRY! will fix now.

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## igordragonian

feel free to tell me, if you want to skip or what not

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## Lord Raziere

Yeah, skip the racing segment, get to actual fights?

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## igordragonian

Roger that.

By the way, characters you want to them to face the Cross Clan/Babidi and co better be elimated at the first rounds.

Also, if you two can list the characters that pass the race, it would help me tremendously to make it cohrent-
but in princple first round will be pair Vs Pair
then round 2 would be fusion (aided if needed)
and the final battle will have some zenny battleground conditon of sort.

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## igordragonian

> Roger that.
> 
> By the way, characters you want to them to face the Cross Clan/Babidi and co better be elimated at the first rounds.
> 
> Also, if you two can list the characters that pass the race, it would help me tremendously to make it cohrent-
> but in princple first round will be pair Vs Pair
> then round 2 would be fusion (aided if needed)
> and the final battle will have some zenny battleground conditon of sort.


Please? I want to move it along.

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## Lord Raziere

Okay, the cross clan/babidi...you mean the ones to go fight Buu? Then probably Pinappla and Masala shouldn't make it past this round, while Jade and Beryl make it to fight the Trombonists?

Sorry, things have been busy with me reading the Sidereal kickstarter and playing Pokemon Violet and thanksgiving, so don't feel bad.

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## Rater202

I'm honestly not sure if 10 and Rhye should pass or not.

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## igordragonian

I mostly meant for the tournament- so I can make who against who thing 


And.. well. Your characters, up to you

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## Rater202

Okay, thinking it over... Ten and rhyse should probably continue into the tournament since I wasn't really... Involved in planning the other bit of the saga and I'm not sure I' know what's going on.

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## igordragonian

Basicly fighting Evil Cult and their allies attacking all over the universe?


For tournament.. I could really use the names- there are so many characters it"s a bit hard to follow

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## Rater202

The only characters I have right now are Rhye and Ten.

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## Lord Raziere

> For tournament.. I could really use the names- there are so many characters it"s a bit hard to follow


Ugh, this was been so slow going I don't even care to look them up.

Just- Masala and Pinappla out, Jade and Beryl and Carmita in, I don't care about anything else.

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