# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 >  Trouble figuring out how to build/ optimize a Dirgesinger Bard

## GuestEleven

Support is generally not my wheelhouse, so I have never once touched a bard in any capacity during my nine years of playing D&D/PF. I don't know what's good or what traps I may step into. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Allowed materials are everything official from 3.5 and Pathfinder 1e except for ToB.

The character concept isn't anything too outside the box. A melancholic lamenter, probably human for the free feat. An important note is my DM is allowing Dirgesinger to not only continue full bard casting progression, but is also allowing Dirgesinger and other bardlike PrC levels to stack with bard for performance availability. I will have 12 feats from level 1-20 plus two flaws. 13 if I pick human.

Necropolitan is available to me, so I was considering picking it up. But on the other hand I kind of want to become a lich down the line. 

I can't really decide if I want to go out of my way to get access to Dragonfire Inspiration, is it worth it? 

I love the Doomspeak feat from Champions of Ruin. If there are any magic items or other character options in line with this I would love them.

Should I spend a lot of feats on undead creation? The capstone ability for Dirgesinger is very nice IMO, it has very little restrictions.

For performances I'm taking wind, string and singing. My primary instrument and weapon will be a scythe strung like a harp. Obviously harmonized, and if possible I will try to ask my DM if it can be made out of the same material a Crystal Echoblade.

Thank you so much for any advice and suggestions. I apologize dearly if this seems poorly structured, I'm on mobile at work.

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## Particle_Man

You might want to go into seeker of the song after dirgesinger to give you even more options for bardic music.  If you dont mind losing a level of bard, you can take paragon half-elf 1 at character level 5 to get the bonus feat at level 5 to use that to get requiem at level 5 to get into dirgesinger at character level 6. If you like human you could also do this with bard 3/human paragon 2.  Your call.

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## Rebel7284

What levels do you expect to be playing at?  If you are going all the way to 20, I highly suggest picking up Sublime Chord after Dirgesinger.  No better support than 9th level spells.  You can use Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell to qualify (there is even a FAQ answer confirming you can apply metamagic with Versatile Spellcaster like this!).

Something like: Silverbrow Human Bard 3/Human Paragon 2/Dirgesinger 5/Sublime Chord 10 works well enough, although getting other classes to progress Sublime Chord is common since Sublime Chord has mediocre class features after level 2.

Feats:
1. Dragonfire Inspiration - Yes this is worth it, especially when you have undead on your side in addition to the usual party members!
H. Versatile Spellcaster - Always a great feat since it greatly increases the number of higher level spell slots you have.  Also allows for early entry.
3. Song of the Heart (Not taking enough bard levels to get it for free sadly)
H2. Requiem 
6. Dragonsong/Doomspeak/Haunting Melody/Lingering Song
- Note that if you can use ECS page 34. to get Song of the Heart here for free, do it, otherwise see level 3. :)
9. Heighten Spell - Entry into Sublime Chord
12. Dragonsong/Doomspeak/Haunting Melody/Lingering Song
15. Dragonsong/Doomspeak/Haunting Melody/Lingering Song
18. Lyric Spell? Craft Contingent Spell?

You probably will want to come back to Human Paragon at some point since the extra +2 Charisma is probably more worthwhile than a fireball (Song of Cosmic Fire is widely considered a disappointment as far as capstone abilities go).

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## Doctor Despair

Check out this. You might find it helpful.

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