# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games >  Looking for a Low-Fantasy Low-Tech TTRPG with good social mechanics

## TinyMushroom

Hey, I've been spinning a very specific idea in my mind of a low (almost no) fantasy historical campaign (early medieval western europe). The players would be a small band of people who are hired to fix miscellaneous problems around town and the local area, using wit, tricks, brawn, and social know-how. The stakes are contained to the local area (you're not Saving The World), and most enemies are wild animals, natural disasters, or other people.

While I could probably hack it into an existing framework like Blades in the Dark, I was wondering if there might be a more specific TTRPG out there that could work for developing this idea further. I get that some of the things I'm interested in are a bit out-there, so I decided to split my list up into a "must-have" and a "would be cool if this existed" list.

I'm not just interested in mechanical systems, I'm also interested in existing campaign settings that I could adapt for this purpose, if they exist.

Must Have:
*Feudalism.* The state is fractured into a complicated feudalist hierarchy. The players are unlikely to meet anyone higher-up than the baron who owns your town and its surroundings. Centralization of power is pretty low, and multiple nobles may claim the local area leading to confusion.*Low-fantasy.* Folk tales and local mythologies matter, and the boundary between reality and folk tale isn't always clear and often depends on belief and interpretation. (For many existing narrative-focused games you already don't have to specify the difference, you can "just be good at healing people with herbs", whether that effect is explicitly magical or not).*Helpful rules framework for navigating complex social interactions and narrative situations.* I have no problem with it being a bit more "gamified", with BITD-like clocks and narrative moves.*Small-town relationships.* Players are assumed to know most people in their settlement personally, or can easily gather information about them by talking to their friends. Strangers stand out.*Small-town problems, small-town solutions.* A bandit camp is stalking the road, convince or force them to leave. Resolve the dispute of the 2 fighting families. A local family has lost everything they own in a fire, convince everyone around town to help them get back on their feet. Find a way to hold out through the winter after a particularly bad harvest.*No guns, preferably no printing press.* It's not necessarily expected that characters are even literate.

Would be cool if this existed, notify me if you know of a TTRPG or Setting that covers even one of these traits:
*Specific history in the real world.* I'm specifically interested in the early medieval Lowlands area of europe, but I'm interested in other settings too. Needn't be necessarily in western europe, but it should take place in the christian world between the fall of the roman empire and the reformation.*Religion is an unignorable institution.* Love it or hate it, monasteries are the keepers of knowledge and churches are where the village gathers on a weekly basis. The church certainly has its flaws, but it is also the institution that feeds the poor and takes in the orphans, and it would be impossible to simply get rid of.*Religious people are human.* Spirituality may be an incredibly important factor in shaping the characters, but people aren't solely defined by it either and exceptions exist all the time. Even Robin Hood's band had a friar.*Traits and Beliefs of the populace as a gameplay mechanic.* I have no idea if any game does this, but being able to model and manipulate the local zeitgeist directly would be kind of awesome.*Attention Paid to Historical Diversity.* I am of a firm belief that humans have always been the same, but it is the words, level of acceptance, and explanations that have shifted. I'm really interested in telling stories about things that aren't often associated with historical settings (homosexuality, mental illness, transgenderism, etc.), and finding ways to exist within the rules of society.*Alternate media of disseminating information.* Town criers, theater troupes, gossips, old people in the community, and travelling merchants or pilgrims. Rules for gathering information in non-literate ways would be really nice to have.

Many thanks to anyone that can help me out!

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## Palanan

You might take a look at the Lion & Dragon setting.  I'm not familiar with it myself, but it seems to have some overlap with what you're looking for, at least in terms of geography and feel.

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## TinyMushroom

> You might take a look at the Lion & Dragon setting.  I'm not familiar with it myself, but it seems to have some overlap with what you're looking for, at least in terms of geography and feel.


This looks beautiful and rich with details I hadn't even thought about. I love the table of trade skills, good find!

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## DeMouse

Well the obvious answer would probably be one of the Powered by the Apocalypse style systems. Heavy emphasis on social mechanics and character interactions in those. 
I don't have much experience playing them personally since the one time my group tried one of them we decided it wasn't for us after a couple of sessions.
Do a search for them if you are interested. There are a ton of different ones so I'm sure you will find something to suit you.

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## Willie the Duck

> This looks beautiful and rich with details I hadn't even thought about. I love the table of trade skills, good find!


Just a word of warning. We pretty much can't talk about it the specifics here, but the author of this one has staked out specific territory in what I'll broadly call the gaming culture war. I think everyone should have a right to say what they want*, but that others also have the right to patronize and support what they want by making rational and informed decisions. I would suggest looking into the RPGPundit and what they say and stand for before making a purchasing decision. 
*in the public forum and their own spaces. This is not a position against GiTP's acceptable discussion policies




> Well the obvious answer would probably be one of the Powered by the Apocalypse style systems. Heavy emphasis on social mechanics and character interactions in those. 
> I don't have much experience playing them personally since the one time my group tried one of them we decided it wasn't for us after a couple of sessions.
> Do a search for them if you are interested. There are a ton of different ones so I'm sure you will find something to suit you.


When it comes to rigorous social mechanics, my list tends to be Exalted, Fate, the PBtA/BitD engines, the Jenna K. Moran library of games, Dallas RPG, and... I'm probably drawing a blank on a couple of obvious ones, but that's close to it. A half-century into RPGs and it's a real significant gap. Obviously there are a lot of people who simply don't need (or even want) over-mechanization of social situations, or are fine with 'simple skill checks and the GM sort out the details' models, but it's still surprising that there aren't more attempts.

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## KorvinStarmast

> Obviously there are a lot of people who simply don't need (or even want) over-mechanization of social situations


 Indeed, part of which has to do with _player_ agency being impacted, but that's a rant for another time and place.

Not sure if _Pendragon_ got mentioned, but I've heard that it's pretty well regarded as to social mechanics.



> You might take a look at the Lion & Dragon setting.  I'm not familiar with it myself, but it seems to have some overlap with what you're looking for, at least in terms of geography and feel.


 Looks to me like a stripped down / leaner version of _Chivalry and Sorcery_. (Based on the reviews). _C&S_ was a little bit complicated.

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## TinyMushroom

Personally, I don't mind mechanics as they give me a handhold to coordinate and explain the situation. I think I'm a pretty decent DM, but roleplaying NPCs is really taxing for me, and I've often found I thrive better in situations with established rules & mechanics. I want some support for situations inbetween "rp everything out fully" and "say something and roll to convince to win encounter".

In blades in the dark, for example, you can introduce a Clock for "bribe the guard" and "guard's patience". this already allows for a bit more granular and nuanced "social combat" where players can better see what's going on. In Fate, you can add the "tempted" aspect to the same guard by offering money, and invoking that during your roll. I want to try if visualizing such things can make it easier for me to clearly imagine the situation.  :Small Smile: 

Thanks for the additional suggestions, I'll certainly look into those systems and do some research giving unsavoury people money. (edit: oh geez, i don't want to derail the whole thread with this, but RPGPundit's blog is really bad...)

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## Willie the Duck

> Thanks for the additional suggestions, I'll certainly look into those systems and do some research giving unsavoury people money. (edit: oh geez, i don't want to derail the whole thread with this, but RPGPundit's blog is really bad...)


Yes, it's best not to beat that dead horse. If it makes you feel any better he's not nearly as influential as he pretends. 




> Personally, I don't mind mechanics as they give me a handhold to coordinate and explain the situation. I think I'm a pretty decent DM, but roleplaying NPCs is really taxing for me, and I've often found I thrive better in situations with established rules & mechanics. I want some support for situations inbetween "rp everything out fully" and "say something and roll to convince to win encounter".
> 
> In blades in the dark, for example, you can introduce a Clock for "bribe the guard" and "guard's patience". this already allows for a bit more granular and nuanced "social combat" where players can better see what's going on. In Fate, you can add the "tempted" aspect to the same guard by offering money, and invoking that during your roll. I want to try if visualizing such things can make it easier for me to clearly imagine the situation.


There's always issues with conservation of attention. If the trivial RP tasks can be paved over with a roll or resource-expense, it can save table time for engaging social actions (the trick, of course, being identifying and splitting out the two situations. :Small Big Grin: ).

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## Tanarii

Warhammer.  Just don't use the chaos rules, and don't allow players to be more than hedge wizards for Magic.

Bonus, players can start as a Rat Catcher!

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## TinyMushroom

> Warhammer.  Just don't use the chaos rules, and don't allow players to be more than hedge wizards for Magic.
> 
> Bonus, players can start as a Rat Catcher!


I'm not familiar with how the Warhammer rpg works, can you elaborate on why you think it's fitting?

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## Sigfried Trent

Definitely look into Pendragon from Chaosium.  

The rules are fine, but it's the setting details and elements specific to that setting that make it a unique and very cool game for history-based role-playing. It has magical elements, but they are more in line with what you are thinking and (except for the 4th edition) doesn't have magic-casting heroes or the like. (The current version is 5th edition I think)

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## Pauly

If youre willing to bend the setting a little Sengoku is a very nice RPG set in feudal Japan. There are guns, but they arent integral to the game and can be cut out very easily. Sengoku and the earlier Bushido (unrelated) both have stronger social systems and have a stronger focus on social class than most RPGs set in western Europe.

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## Satinavian

The Dark Eye probably fits your expectations. It can do small town problems quite fine. While not particularly innovative, it is one of the few low-powerlevel fantasy games that don't go for the gritty meatgrinder feal.

The accompaning setting is relatively old but also matches all of your points (aside from real world).

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## Catullus64

> I'm not familiar with how the Warhammer rpg works, can you elaborate on why you think it's fitting?


In contradiction of Tanarii, I don't think Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is at all a good fit for what you describe (I'm mostly familiar with 2nd Edition, but my understanding is that most of what I say applies to all four editions).

It's got some points from your 'would be nice' list, like emphasis on religion, non-literate communication, and, in the most recent edition, some attempts towards greater diversity, but it also goes agains several points from your 'must-have' list: Its gameworld is decidedly early-modern rather than medieval, it's got the two technologies (firearms and printing press) that you expressly said you didn't want, and the game text tends to assume that you are itinerant, rootless vagabonds despised by the communities on whose behalf you adventure. While there is an emphasis on small, personal adventures rather than large-scale problems, and your characters are unlikely to ever encounter the larger-than-life heroes who do exist in the setting, Warhammer is definitely a melodramatic, over-the-top world, and the RPG tends towards a cynical, black comedy tone. The system has a lot of cool stuff that you could use, but it would require sufficient cutting and replacing to fit your specifications that you'd essentially be playing a different game.

I note that of your six 'must-have' points, five of them are mostly concerned with setting and tone, while only one is concerned with game mechanics. With that in mind, I think that the world of Glorantha, of the _RuneQuest_ game system, fits what you want in a game setting brilliantly, even though no edition of RuneQuest, that I know of, has highly-designed play structures for handling social interactions. 

Feudalism isn't quite the word I'd use to describe the world and its power structures, but this is absolutely a place where power is highly fragmented and concentrated at the local level: most of society is organized on the basis of clans, kinship groups, and tribes rather than large states. 

Glorantha draws heavily on folklore and mythology for its setting, and the in-game magic system is very reflective of that.

The game emphasizes kinship, religion, and local roots as key elements of a character. The game's progression system assumes that you have access to locally established groups and associations for training.

Definitely an emphasis on local problem-solving, and the various difficulties of small agricultural or pastoral communities in a pre-industrial age.

Forget firearms or the printing press: iron tools and literacy are still a long way off for most people. The setting is very bronze-age.

It's also a pretty good setting for exploring some of your non-essential points: under-explored diversity, importance of religion, and non-literate communication.

That all being said, I can't recommend the actual _RuneQuest_ game system all that highly, at least not the classic editions I'm familiar with: it's excessively concerned with simulationist fidelity in its combat, the information in the rulebooks is tragically disorganized, and the magic system is much more thematically interesting than it is fun to play.

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## Tanarii

> I'm not familiar with how the Warhammer rpg works, can you elaborate on why you think it's fitting?


Very strong support for non-magic, what magic there is has a high chance of backfiring on the caster (to whatever degree you want to keep it in), dangerous combat (IMO important for a low magic setting unless you want swashbuckling).

The setting has a few major cities but everything else is pretty dangerous local areas that have to stand heavily on their own, with normal folks rising up to become heroes.  If they survive.

You'd have to strip out the rules for guns (and printing press but that rarely comes up and is easily done) from your must haves, but it meets the others quite well.

It's right on the nose for your top three 'nice to haves', and the last one.

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## Berenger

I think A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying could work for this. The default assumption is that the players are members or servants of a minor noble house that manages a small fiefdom and a cast of NPCs. This may involve the creation of various assets (churches, markets, libraries, artisan workshops, dog kennels, small military units etc.). The rules for "social combat" are as detailed as the rules for actual, physical combat.

It should definitely fulfill all your must-haves. You'll probably find it accomodating towards your nice-to-haves, but you will have to put in a little work to file off the Westeros-specific fluff. 

https://greenronin.com/sifrp/

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## Telok

Just remembered that Conan 2d20 exists. That should be just about perfect.

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## Thane of Fife

> Definitely look into Pendragon from Chaosium.  
> 
> The rules are fine, but it's the setting details and elements specific to that setting that make it a unique and very cool game for history-based role-playing. It has magical elements, but they are more in line with what you are thinking and (except for the 4th edition) doesn't have magic-casting heroes or the like. (The current version is 5th edition I think)


Pendragon is probably my favorite RPG, but I don't think it's what the OP is look for. Mainly because it is a game about playing as knights, and that doesn't sound like the premise they want. For example, the OP says, "The players are unlikely to meet anyone higher-up than the baron who owns your town." in Pendragon, the default is that your character _is_ the baron who owns their town (well, village).



Some games that I will sort of recommend:

*Saga of the Icelanders*. This is a Powered by the Apocalypse game, and I confess that I have not played it myself, but my impression is that, apart from being set in Norse Iceland rather than the Christian Lowlands, this game is intended to be very close to what you describe.

*Fantasy Wargaming* is a very old RPG that typically gets terrible reviews, but it is not nearly as bad as people say. It IS badly organized and rather clunky, so this is a very tentative recommendation. But it is set in Medieval Europe, with very detailed religious and folklorish magic rules, where society matters a great deal. It has rules for how likely people are to respond to different types of temptation which could be fairly easily used as or modified into a social mechanic. I doubt that you would want to use this game wholesale as-is, but it might have some neat stuff to steal for another game.

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## Faily

The _A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying Game_ has a very dedicated social mechanic. It also has its own rules for building your own houses in Westeros, and there is no magic. 
_Pendragon_ is Arthurian RPG, focused on generational-narrative. Magic is minimal, and there are also mechanics for social combat. 

I've only had the chance to play the first and I think it works alright, just as long as you get past the poor layout of the book (I know it doesn't bother everyone, I am just very picky about it xD).

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