# Forum > Discussion > Mad Science and Grumpy Technology >  The VR headset that kills

## pendell

Seen on  Ars Technica  
and several other sites. 




> The idea that dying in a video game or simulation could cause your death in real life is a common trope that has appeared in dozens of fictional works in recent decades. Now, though, Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey has made the concept real.
> 
> On his personal blog, Luckey writes of a new VR headset he has designed that uses three embedded explosive charges, planted above the forehead, that can "instantly destroy the brain of the user." The lethal explosion is triggered via "a narrow-band photosensor that can detect when the screen flashes red at a specific frequency," Luckey writes, making it easy to set off during a "Game Over" screen.
> 
> John Carmack (left) poses with Oculus founder Palmer Luckey (center) and other members of the Oculus team.
> Enlarge / John Carmack (left) poses with Oculus founder Palmer Luckey (center) and other members of the Oculus team.
> OculusVR
> To be clear, Luckey says his deadly headsetwhich looks in images like a modified Meta Quest Prois "at this point... just a piece of office art, a thought-provoking reminder of unexplored avenues in game design." At the same time, though, Luckey writes that "the idea of tying your real life to your virtual avatar has always fascinated meyou instantly raise the stakes to the maximum level and force people to fundamentally rethink how they interact with the virtual world and the players inside it."
> 
> ...


What's the market for this? I play games in part as a vacation from real life. Why would I want to buy a headset that kills me if I screw up in a game? 

Respectfully, 

Brian P.

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## animorte

Having some competitive fun for those people already on death row. Reminds me of Death Race or Twisted Metal.

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## JeenLeen

I guess I could see someone making this for fun (like mad-scientist fun), which is what it sounds like the inventor's motivation was.  Liked the anime, wanted to make a death machine akin to what's in it. Even what you quoted ("piece of office art"), it's clear this isn't an actual product they'd sell but just a concept of invention.   I don't think the latter quote overrides that.

I can't see a company that doesn't want to quickly become bankrupt and/or have employees in jail ever trying to sell something like this.
I guess I could see the appeal of wanting real danger linked to a game, akin to how some people like climbing mountains without proper gear for the sake of the risk of danger of death.

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## tomandtish

Yeah, I have a hard time imagining anyway a company (in the USA anyway) could even legally sell this (or give it away for that matter). The liability issues would be huge, especially for second hand use. 

Is the product itself (not the packaging) marked clearly and unalterably so anyone who put one on knows what they are doing? What happens when your child's friend who is over visiting finds it and puts it on? Heck, what happens if I got tired of it, gave it to Goodwill, and they sold it to someone else?

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## KillianHawkeye

Well if it's only triggered by red screen flashes at a specific frequency, then it most likely would only work with software designed specifically to provide said trigger upon a game over. Realistically, that's a good thing since it effectively defeats the purpose of such a device, although random activation would still be an issue that--while unlikely--would need to be examined.

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## pendell

I appeal to any retailers: Who wants to be in the business of having actual high explosive in their store attached to these headsets?  Just how touchy are these explosives? What happens when a clumsy stocker drops a box containing them?  

More likely they'd sell the headset and you'd have to order the explosives separately -- but from where?  I don't think Amazon or the post office deliver things that go "boom".  

Respectfully, 

Brian P.

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## Aedilred

This device gives me Torment Nexus vibes.

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## halfeye

It's a very silly idea indeed.

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## OracleofWuffing

> I appeal to any retailers: Who wants to be in the business of having actual high explosive in their store attached to these headsets?  Just how touchy are these explosives? What happens when a clumsy stocker drops a box containing them?


It's just a one-off piece, it's not available for retail.

That said... In addition to the examples given in the article, attractions like Elaut's The Zapper and the Addams Family Shock Machine _simulate_ an electric shock as their primary entertainment function, and there exists a custom arcade game which at least claims to deliver electrical shocks as a damage feedback mechanism.  While death explosives are certainly far more extreme, they are a logical conclusion to this thought process.  Logical does not always mean wise.

 :Small Tongue:  For a real history lesson, urban legends attribute an actual fatality to the 1980 arcade game Berzerk.  Factually, it is typically concluded that said fatality would have happened due the specific individual from any kind of exertion, but urban legends gotta urban legend.

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## Anymage

> I appeal to any retailers: Who wants to be in the business of having actual high explosive in their store attached to these headsets?  Just how touchy are these explosives? What happens when a clumsy stocker drops a box containing them?  
> 
> More likely they'd sell the headset and you'd have to order the explosives separately -- but from where?  I don't think Amazon or the post office deliver things that go "boom".


There's been a lot of work put into keeping explosives stable because you don't want them to be dangerous to store or ship.  In theory they could be on a store shelf and I wouldn't be worried.  Of course in reality, ignoring the massive liability issues for someone killing themselves with this for a moment, there's also the fact that high explosives can also be used to blow up things other than a VR console.  So that's an extra layer of illegal beyond the obvious one.

I'd be surprised if this bit of SAO fanart didn't compel at least one streamer to play with something that turns in-game damage into electric shocks.  And if normal people could get their hands on high explosives I'd expect at least one person to make and play with their own just because people do really stupid stuff for social media clout.  But I do have to say that as an art piece, the headset is good art in the sense that it's getting people thinking and talking.

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## warty goblin

Still seems like a more viable product than the Facebook Metaverse nonsense.

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## Tyndmyr

> I appeal to any retailers: Who wants to be in the business of having actual high explosive in their store attached to these headsets?  Just how touchy are these explosives? What happens when a clumsy stocker drops a box containing them?


Presumably any such explosive would be electrically detonated, and it's not hard to have a quite shockproof explosive that can be electrically detonated. C-4 comes to mind. So, that technical problem is easily solved. 

I still can't imagine that many people would, yknow, want it. Liability, PR, there's an immense number of problems even if the device works exactly as advertised. 

I mean, I guess there's no harm in designing the concept, and it's not technically difficult to set up at all, I just keep coming back to that Jurassic Park quote. Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

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## Imbalance

Yeah, the click-bait "journalism" sites are having a field day with this joke.

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## Lord Raziere

It may not be anything but an art piece, but its creation still feels like a small step closer to becoming Dark Eldar, which is bad enough.

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## Chronos

I can think of one very practical use for this device.  First, short-sell a bunch of your own VR company's stock, and/or buy a bunch of your competitors'.  Then, announce that you've designed a system to make your company's headset lethal.  Watch your stock plummet, and profit.

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## Imbalance

A buddy of mine thinks this could solve problems with the death penalty, ala Monte Python.  There's that one sketch where a death row inmate was allowed to choose his manner of execution, but with this, instead of actually being chased over a cliff by topless women, it could be done virtually.  I'm not convinced it's a great idea.

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## veti

> It may not be anything but an art piece, but its creation still feels like a small step closer to becoming Dark Eldar, which is bad enough.


If I understand correctly, it's not even "created", it's just a drawing.

But it seems to me that the very idea - misses the whole point of the trope, which is that the virtual experience is supposed to be so powerful and vivid that, when you "die", your brain just kinda gives up and it becomes real. By resorting to artificial aids like this, they're basically admitting they're nowhere near making the VR experience that real - which is no surprise, I guess, but I do think it's important they be called out on this, not allowed to shift the goalposts permanently.

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## halfeye

> If I understand correctly, it's not even "created", it's just a drawing.
> 
> But it seems to me that the very idea - misses the whole point of the trope, which is that the virtual experience is supposed to be so powerful and vivid that, when you "die", your brain just kinda gives up and it becomes real. By resorting to artificial aids like this, they're basically admitting they're nowhere near making the VR experience that real - which is no surprise, I guess, but I do think it's important they be called out on this, not allowed to shift the goalposts permanently.


I think the idea comes from a long time ago, there was an SF novel I read in the 1960s in which prisoners were fitted with bombs, and a little more recently, but still 30ish years ago, there was "black ice" system security software in "Count Zero" which could kill.

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## akma

I'm guessing that a similar product, that will use something lethal that isn't explosives (like a gun or even a hammer) isn't too hard to build based upon the original design, so I don't feel you should focus on the explosives part.




> Having some competitive fun for those people already on death row. Reminds me of Death Race or Twisted Metal.


Add that the servers between death row inmates and safe players aren't separated, and that you don't normally know who is who, and you got material for a possibly decent dystopian novel.

I do hope that something like that never gets implemented for death row inmates, because if sending inmates to death row will start being profitable, more people could end up there...




> Well if it's only triggered by red screen flashes at a specific frequency, then it most likely would only work with software designed specifically to provide said trigger upon a game over. Realistically, that's a good thing since it effectively defeats the purpose of such a device, although random activation would still be an issue that--while unlikely--would need to be examined.


You could make the chance of random occurrence miniscule by adding more conditions, like a color pattern instead of a single color, but it wouldn't help against malicious users - someone could kill a lot of people just by sending a GIF. And if someone manages to put that kind of GIF into a software update, he could even kill a significant percentage of the users.

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## pendell

This sounds like it could be the plot of a murder mystery. Say you have a target who loves video games and loves VR. Wire up one of these specials and have it trigger at a specific frequency when the target is playing a favorite game -- or make an update to their game that will fire that specific frequency. No one else even notices, target is dead. 

The downside is that the delivery mechanism would have to be a great deal more subtle than explosive, as any target requiring this level of James Bond style shenanigans undoubtedly has security people who would spot explosives right away. 

Respectfully, 

Brian P.

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## halfeye

There was an episode from "The Avengers" British TV series where Mrs Peel was strapped in a car simulator (using film somehow, this was long before home computers) at forced high speed, that was going to electrocute her if she crashed.

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## Vinyadan

I'm pretty sure I've seen something similar in a James Bond movie, Defcon with electric shocks.

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## animorte

> I do hope that something like that never gets implemented for death row inmates, because if sending inmates to death row will start being profitable, more people could end up there...


Ouch, you nailed it. Anything for people in certain positions to profit at whatever expense

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## snowblizz

> What's the market for this? I play games in part as a vacation from real life. Why would I want to buy a headset that kills me if I screw up in a game? 
> 
> Respectfully, 
> 
> Brian P.


If you are dumb enough to buy and play with one you are conveniently removed from the genepool I guess.

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## Quizatzhaderac

> But it seems to me that the very idea - misses the whole point of the trope, which is that the virtual experience is supposed to be so powerful and vivid that, when you "die", your brain just kinda gives up and it becomes real. By resorting to artificial aids like this, they're basically admitting they're nowhere near making the VR experience that real - which is no surprise, I guess, but I do think it's important they be called out on this, not allowed to shift the goalposts permanently.


In Sword Art Online (which the article mentioned was an inspiration), there was a specifically designed kill device in the VR, with the idea that even though the VR perfectly replicated the senses, the abstract knowledge that you could leave and that you couldn't die dramatically changed the experience.

The goalpost you mentioned is also impossible, as the human mind can't placebo itself to death. Unfortunately this has been tested; we know what happens when you trick the mind into thinking it's dying: It's psychologically traumatic, but the heart, liver, and the rest are fine.

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## gomipile

> There was an episode from "The Avengers" British TV series where Mrs Peel was strapped in a car simulator (using film somehow, this was long before home computers) at forced high speed, that was going to electrocute her if she crashed.


I'm reminded of Tom Scott's recent video about a tank simulator from the 1970s that used a remote controlled camera and a scale model landscape.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=AcQifPHcMLE

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## Bohandas

> Still seems like a more viable product than the Facebook Metaverse nonsense.


The two go hand in hand. They're both from the same nonsensical subgenre of science fiction.




> But it seems to me that the very idea - misses the whole point of the trope, which is that the virtual experience is supposed to be so powerful and vivid that, when you "die", your brain just kinda gives up and it becomes real. By resorting to artificial aids like this, they're basically admitting they're nowhere near making the VR experience that real.


Well yeah, of course. VR is always going to run on some kind of technology rather than actual magic, and that's the only way what you described, as you described it, could ever happen.

And also, that's not the only way it happens on TV shows anyway. The various holodeck mishaps in Star Trek come about from the holodeck using props that are partly physical. Which unlike the other explanation at least kind of makes sense once we've accepted the holodeck existing at all.

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## Coeruleum

> It may not be anything but an art piece, but its creation still feels like a small step closer to becoming Dark Eldar, which is bad enough.


Woah, woah, we're not going to nuke the planet because one guy made a headset that kills you to keep on his desk.

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## 137beth

> Woah, woah, we're not going to nuke the planet because one guy made a headset that kills you to keep on his desk.


Note, that no one has _actually_ made a headset that kills you.  As the article linked in the OP admits further down, one guy has drawn a picture of a _fictional_ headset that kills it's users, and clickbate sites are writing headlines that make it sound like such a headset has actually been manufactured.  Palmer Luckey hasn't made a killer VR device any more than the Wachowski Sisters did.

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