# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 5e/Next >  Is dwarven fortitude a decent feat on a monk?

## Klorox

Dwarven fortitude gives you +1 CON and lets you heal one hit die when you take the Dodge action. 

Monks can take the Dodge action as a bonus by spending 1 ki. 

Is this a decent combo, or should I just bump my DEX or WIS?

Im playing a hill dwarf monk who just hit level 4. 

12/18/16/10/17/8

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## stoutstien

It's ok flavor wise but it's kinda a wash unless you happen to have above average AC which you won't have if you aren't pumping Dex/Wis.

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## Klorox

> It's ok flavor wise but it's kinda a wash unless you happen to have above average AC which you won't have if you aren't pumping Dex/Wis.


What if I choose kensei monk so I can reliably get +2 AC?

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## JellyPooga

It's worth bearing in mind that Hit Die are a limited resource and only replenish half your max on a long rest. If you frequently use them (as I'd expect you would with this feat), you're going to see less use than you might imagine. At level 4, that's only 2d8+2(Con) hp gained per long rest. Some solid healing, but it's not going to be that much of a game changer compared to, say, buying a couple of healing potions.

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## MrStabby

> Dwarven fortitude gives you +1 CON and lets you heal one hit die when you take the Dodge action. 
> 
> Monks can take the Dodge action as a bonus by spending 1 ki. 
> 
> Is this a decent combo, or should I just bump my DEX or WIS?
> 
> Im playing a hill dwarf monk who just hit level 4. 
> 
> 12/18/16/10/17/8


Its nice from a "ha ha, look what I can do" perspective.  Its fun and all, but not really that effective.  It uses a feat, uses Ki and uses a bonus action (in addition to the hit die itself) - all of these are things you have other uses for.

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## Anymage

It's not bad, but does have a very core flaw that will hit MAD characters especially hard.  Specifically, you want to bump Dex and Wis in order to perform your essential class features and keep your numbers up to par, but doing so leaves you without many ASIs to spend on feats.

Other than that, it's a fair amount of healing if you expect only one big fight a day and to get a full HD refresh every morning.  Which granted I've seen a lot of, but that's very dependent on campaign and DM.  The longer your days, the less likely you'll want the extra ways to spend HD and the more you're likely to just use them during short rests.

Edit:  And as pointed out, if there's one big fight in a day, there's a good chance you're better off sinking ki into flurries and/or stuns.  An enemy who can't act due to being stunned or dead likely prevents more than 1d8+con mod damage.

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## stoutstien

> What if I choose kensei monk so I can reliably get +2 AC?


Better but still not something I'd take above dex. 
Saying that if it's something that you're going to enjoy then do it. the overall variance that 5e is capable of containing is extraordinary compared to most systems. 
Most forum discussions are related to the extreme fringes of table environments where small decisions like that would actually be noticeable. For the other 99% of the players it's not important.

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## J-H

^^ what they said.

As a comparison point, you could take Eldritch Adept and cast False Life at will before every fight, giving you 1d4+4 temporary hit points, resource free, before every fight.  At, say, 5 fights per day, that's 5d4+20 temporary HP, which is more than you would heal using your hit dice...and you don't use up the ability to heal on short rests!

Inspiring Leader also would still net you 3 or 4 temp HP per party member for every 10 minute speech.  That's a bit less for you but potentially better for everyone else.

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## Dork_Forge

It's a neat trick, personally I would reserve this combo for one shots, DM-given feats, or late game when you have surplus ASIs.

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## MrStabby

> ^^ what they said.
> 
> As a comparison point, you could take Eldritch Adept and cast False Life at will before every fight, giving you 1d4+4 temporary hit points, resource free, before every fight.  At, say, 5 fights per day, that's 5d4+20 temporary HP, which is more than you would heal using your hit dice...and you don't use up the ability to heal on short rests!
> 
> Inspiring Leader also would still net you 3 or 4 temp HP per party member for every 10 minute speech.  That's a bit less for you but potentially better for everyone else.


Most comparisons I read seem either obvious or bad.  I think that this is neither - a perfect example of showing what a resource free version of the same might look like to really show what other options are out there.  And not a common point of comparison either.  Love it.

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## Hawk7915

Patient Defense is often the least effective use of a Monk's Bonus Action - Monks do best when they are spending their Ki + BA to dish out damage with Flurry, or using their Ki + BA to Step of the Wind  into, or out of, trouble. That's not to say it's never useful - it certainly can be especially on Kensei Monk as you noted who have higher than usual ACs for a Monk (although Kenseis also have the option to fight at range with a Longbow + Kensei Shot as their BA, so...). Your Ki is also a precious resource, since Kensei Monks can be spending it to toss in extra dice of damage on a Deft Strike and eventually you'll have Stunning Strike to consider as well. Doing stuff to make Patient Defense better is thus sort of an awkward proposition.

If a Dwarf Monk has a feat to choose and an odd Constitution, I'd also point out that Crusher or Skill Expert likely "do more" to round up your Constitution than Dwarven Fortitude does - Crusher offers control options with knockback and incredible damage potential if you crit, while Skill Expert rounds out your skill list and can help you get a lot better at Grappling or Sneaking. There's also Chef if you like healing, which will at least at 4th level probably translate to equal effective healing to yourself and some party support to boot. Dwarven Fortitude will be more daily health longer term, but again - Patient Defense is not the greatest use of your Ki and time, and Chef gives you some team support skills. And then there's the Eldritch Adept - False Life combo mentioned above, which is way more effective health for most Monks without eating into your Ki. 

It's not bad - it's not like burning a feat on something like Actor that's pure RP and doesn't help your character at all, or taking an actively bad feat like Grappler or Charger. And it's for sure flavorful for a tough-as-nails Monk to be able to "do this all day". But in terms of raw effectiveness I'd have a hard time calling it decent.

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## LudicSavant

> Dwarven fortitude gives you +1 CON and lets you heal one hit die when you take the Dodge action. 
> 
> Monks can take the Dodge action as a bonus by spending 1 ki. 
> 
> Is this a decent combo, or should I just bump my DEX or WIS?
> 
> Im playing a hill dwarf monk who just hit level 4. 
> 
> 12/18/16/10/17/8


There are better options, doubly so since you don't have an odd Con score.

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## strangebloke

Squat nimbleness, a really mediocre race-exclusive feat accessible to dwarves and small races, is way better for a monk than dwarven fortitude.

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## Chronos

Think of it this way:  If you need healing, that Hit Die is going to be used for healing eventually anyway.  All this feat changes is _when_ it's used for healing.  So it's good only if you would have been downed before you had a chance to take a short rest.  Which, for a dwarf who's boosting Con, shouldn't be very often.

It's a bit better on a monk than on most classes, because of being able to dodge as a bonus action, but then again, out of all classes in the game, monks probably have the most use for their bonus action already.  And a monk spending a bonus action and a ki point in addition to their action does twice as much as they do with their action alone (two attacks and a flurry of two more, versus just two attacks), so really, for a monk, the combined cost of bonus action plus ki point is the same as the cost of an action.  So you're still, really, spending just as much to use this feat as a monk.

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## stoutstien

> Think of it this way:  If you need healing, that Hit Die is going to be used for healing eventually anyway.  All this feat changes is _when_ it's used for healing.  So it's good only if you would have been downed before you had a chance to take a short rest.  Which, for a dwarf who's boosting Con, shouldn't be very often.
> 
> It's a bit better on a monk than on most classes, because of being able to dodge as a bonus action, but then again, out of all classes in the game, monks probably have the most use for their bonus action already.  And a monk spending a bonus action and a ki point in addition to their action does twice as much as they do with their action alone (two attacks and a flurry of two more, versus just two attacks), so really, for a monk, the combined cost of bonus action plus ki point is the same as the cost of an action.  So you're still, really, spending just as much to use this feat as a monk.


I actually think it works best on clerics who dodge quite often and also have enough passive AC to make the expedited healing worth it .....occasionally. maybe artificers as well.

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## RogueJK

> There are better options, doubly so since you don't have an odd Con score.


Exactly.

Even if you did have an odd CON score, there's at least a half dozen other ASIs/feats I'd pick before Dwarven Fortitude.


As it stands, the obvious option for your current stat spread is to round out your odd WIS score with a WIS half-feat.  This gets you +1 AC along with +1 to the save DC of your Stunning Strike starting next level, plus the other benefits of the feat.

The Chef feat is worth considering in this case, if you're wanting to both round out your WIS as well as boost your HP-related options.  In addition to the 18 WIS it gets you and your allies a boost to your short rest Hit Dice healing, along with a Bonus Action means to gain Temp HP without requiring the use of Ki.

Other good options for a WIS half-feat here would be either Fey Touched for Misty Step and Bless (since you don't have another good use for your Concentration), or Skill Expert for Proficiency and Expertise in something like Stealth and Perception.

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## Snails

The idea of using Dwarven Fortitude is flavorful, but Chronos' point is correct: as a meleeist you can expect to spend those HD eventually, so hurrying the process forward is only small benefit _and only if it actually prevents you from kissing the dirt_.  There are other ways of staying up.

Along the theme of the sturdy high Con hill dwarf of a monk, you could go with plain old Tough feat -- you basically walk into the fight HP equivalent to the benefits of gaining that "healing" with no Ki or bonus action spent.  

To do better than Tough with Dwarven Fortitude, you need to do your Dodge thing _twice_ in the same combat.  Planning on taxing yourself 2 Ki for a T1/T2 monk is looking very steep.  Obviously if you really need to Dodge, that is Ki under the bridge, but this does not seem like a great plan.

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## CTurbo

The only time I would even consider Dwarven Fortitude on a Monk is if I had already maxed Dex and Wis AND had an odd Con. Even then I'd probably choose something else because I have played several different Monks over the years and I don't believe I have ever at any time used a ki to Dodge. 

There is one class though that I use the Dodge action quite a bit with and I happen to think Dwarven Fortitude is an excellent choice for and that is the Cleric. Once you get Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon up you can either use your action to cast a spell, make a single melee attack, or Dodge which helps keep your concentration up and with that feat can heal yourself if needed. I've found that when in melee with that combo going, it's often better to Dodge than attack.

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## Witty Username

> Dwarven fortitude gives you +1 CON and lets you heal one hit die when you take the Dodge action. 
> 
> Monks can take the Dodge action as a bonus by spending 1 ki. 
> 
> Is this a decent combo, or should I just bump my DEX or WIS?
> 
> Im playing a hill dwarf monk who just hit level 4. 
> 
> 12/18/16/10/17/8


It depends a bit on what kind of monk your playing,
Mercy, hands of healing is plenty
Long death, if you get the high level features you are much better off using those
Other monks, raising dex is Always good, I don't feel right recommending things before maxing it.

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