# Forum > Play-by-Post Games > Finding Players (Recruitment) > Out-of-Character >  Planescape: Center of All OOC

## kinem

Recruitment Thread

Toliudar as Ash, Lesser Aasimar seeker, LE
Archmage1 as Eilyra, 'half-fiend' swiftblade, NE
Paradox26 as Taric Darkflame, Shadow Creature Bariaur dualblade, CG
Da'Shain as Edigaria, Human Binder/Warlock, CN
Cavir as Avakuss, Goliath Monk/Psychic Warrior, NG
tonberryking as Rush, Centaur Soul Knife, CG
RCgothic as Vanya, Human Cleric, NG

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## Archmage1

Hello everyone!  Kinem, thank you for being willing to run this game.  :Small Smile: 

Eilyra will hopefully be able to snag Fire Brick as her speaking color!

Player
Character
Concept
Class
Alignment

Toliudar
Ash
Looking For Soul
Occult Seer/Mindbender/Ur-Priest/M. Theuge/Unseen Seer
LE

Archmage1
Eilyra Dlardrageth
Seeking Restoration
Wizard/Ruathar/Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion
NE(Grandfathered)

Paradox26
Taric Darkflame
Running from Graz'zt
Dualblade/Barbarian
CG

Da'Shain
Edigaria
Heir to Ash
Binder/Warlock/Anima Mage/Hellfire Warlock
CN

Cavir
Avakuss
Guardian
Monk / Psychic Warrior
NG

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## Cavir

Hi All, Avakuss will stick with *Dark Purple*.




> Cavir: That table is OK. I'm going to rule that Improved Natural Attack doesn't stack with Powerful Build.


Sounds good.  Monk unarmed damage table:

*Level
*
*Small
*
*Medium
*
*Large
*
*Huge
*
*Gargantuan*
*Colossal*

1-3
1d4 (2.5)
1d6 (3.5)
1d8 (4.5)
2d6 (7)
3d6 (10.5)
4d6 (14)

4-7
1d6 (3.5)
1d8 (4.5)
2d6 (7)
3d6 (10.5)
4d6 (14)
6d6 (21)

8-11
1d8 (4.5)
1d10 (5.5)
2d8 (9)
3d8 (13.5)
4d8 (18)
6d8 (27)

12-15
1d10 (5.5)
2d6 (7)
3d6 (10.5)
4d6 (14)
6d6 (21)
8d6 (28)

16-19
2d6 (7)
2d8 (9)
3d8 (13.5)
4d8 (18)
6d8 (27)
8d8 (36)

20
2d8 (9)
2d10 (11)
4d8 (22)
6d8 (27)
8d8 (36)
12d8 (54)



The number in parenthesis is the average, to get a sense of scaling.

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## Toliudar

What a great group!  

*"Ash is going to be speaking in purple."*  Or, equally likely, _*Thinking at you in purple.*_

Edit:  Cadir got in with purple before me.  Switching to straight-up boldface or italic black.

Also, Ash is NOT the offensive powerhouse of the group, but I do have access to cleric spells, so if there are group or individual buffs that would support your character especially well, let me know.  I didn't go the persistent route, though, so don't expect all-day Prayers, sadly.  Normally, I'd be tossing out Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, but with a swiftblade in the group, I'm assuming that Haste will usually be available, which does more or less the same thing for the melee-inclined.

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## paradox26

Pleased to be joining you all. I will have Taric speaking in Medium Green.

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## kinem

Toliudar, Id prefer if you pick something other than plain black, as lll use that for most NPCs.

Im still working on the hooks. IC should be up maybe tonight, maybe up to a few days.

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## Archmage1

For some strange reason, Eilyra's first turn in combat is likely to be something along the lines of... Haste, move, stab something, cast another spell, move a bit more.  Luckily, she should be able to reliably hit everyone with haste, barring some strange things going on.
She's not great at dealing damage, but she can be fairly annoying.

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## Toliudar

No problem.  *"Ash will talk like this."* _*And her telepathic speech will look like this.*_

It looks like we've got two whirlwinds of melee destruction in the group, and Edigaria has blasting, off the chart social skills and at-will summoning/creation conjurations, which is an awesome toy I look forward to seeing in action.  Eilyra is a speeding brick with 9th level spells.  I think that Ash can afford to stay back in most combats, to do some buffing/debuffing and counterspelling as needed.

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## Da'Shain

Edigaria will speak in *"Bolded orange"*, or telepathically in *Bolded italic orange.*

Thanks for picking her!  She's no great shakes in the "kill everything immediately" department, but her summoning/battlefield control is a major nuisance and she's surprisingly hard to put down.

Her at-will summoning (both real and illusory) means that any buff someone needs from the Summon Monster list (up to level 8) is on the table, as well as healing and at-will teleportation.

I look forward to playing her!  This is my last finals week, so I may be slow to respond this week, but otherwise I am ready to go.

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## kinem

The IC thread is up.

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## Archmage1

*Spoiler: Eilyra questions(And spoilers for Expedition to the Demonweb Pits)*
Show


What does Eilyra know about the Black Sail?  (1d20+36)[*37*](Local or Planes) or (1d20+14)[*19*] History

I will admit, I did not read the campaign book for Expedition.  From what I read, we ended up working for Orcus in resolving the situation.  Based on RoT's... associations, I gather that there's a story there?  Would you happen to have any advice for further reading?

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## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

The Black Sail is owned by Joel Taverus, a human warlock and retired adventurer. He's said to be a decent sort, and runs one of the better taverns in the Lower Ward. The Sail is sometimes used by those who want privacy, as it has lead-lined rooms which prevent scrying.

I don't want to give too many spoilers for Demonweb Pits since it's possible that game will eventually continue. After various adventures, the party ended up at a Demon Council in Lolth's Demonweb Pits as representatives of Orcus, while most of the other demon lords sent Aspects of themselves. The party threw the Council into chaos, causing them to fight among themselves instead of uniting under Lolth's leadership, and slew a couple of the Aspects. In the process, you made enemies of Lolth and Demogorgon, who went to war against each other, while some of the other demon lords came out ahead, mainly Graz'zt and Orcus.

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## Archmage1

Well... I just finished converting Eilyra's inventory from gold costs to item weight, and made a rather sad discovery:  She's carrying too much(at 36 pounds).

I don't suppose Muleback Cords(From PF)  would be an option?(With a bit of refluffing, as far as appearance goes)

If not, time for some item modifications, to bring her down to a light load.

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## kinem

Ill allow it.

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## Archmage1

Thank you!  That makes life much, much simpler.   :Small Smile:   Eilyra's sheet should be fully game ready now(Although, I might go through, and add a save type on her spells... but there probably isn't much point there).

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## Toliudar

Should we all be strangers to each other?  Sigil's a big complicated place, but we're also big fish in a big pond, so to speak.  I'm open to having Ash have previous connections with any of the others.

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## Archmage1

Sigil is a big complicated place, but looking at our backstories... we may well not have met, beyond passing in the street.  RoT is a constant, but he strikes me as a fellow who keeps his schemes separate.

Edit:  Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but nothing's popping up in my head for it.

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## Toliudar

I don't think it's necessary, but it can smooth the first meeting - or at least make it seem more natural - and give some richness to the interaction down the line. All good, either way.

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## Archmage1

True.

Well, so, some relevant events from Eilyra's background:
*Spoiler: Pre-Sigil*
Show


She was born in the Forgotten Realms as the second daughter of Xiiltharra Dlardrageth ~5000 years ago, and spent most of that time trapped in a demiplane.  She doesn't talk about this, at all.  Also, really not a fan of confinement.  Or rings of sustenance.
(The Dlardrageth house does have some history.)
She was freed ~6 months after the Harpers used the Gatekeeper's Crystal to shatter Hellgate Keep, as an inadvertant action of a followup team.  The Harpers was not fans of Eilyra, so she killed them.
After that, she basically joined an elven army seeking to restore Myth Drannor, and oppose her sister, although she did not reveal her identity, knowing that to do so was to die.
She left, did some things, realized that she'd have to do something epic to restore her family name, and eventually found her way to Sigil.



*Spoiler: Sigil(Probably more likely to have an interaction here, after the Expedition to Demonweb Pits)*
Show


After her arrival, Eilyra worked as a sage for a time as she collected information, and ultimately decided on a riskier path to power.  She considered the Blood War, but ultimately found herself walking a different path, wherein she ended up putting an end to some of Lloth's plotting(And made a permanent enemy of her)(See the Expedition to the Demonweb Pits campaign for more, although do not spoil.)
After that did not achieve her goals, she returned to, well, wandering, odd jobs, seeking to improve her power, and continuing seek a way to restore her name(She was never attained like the rest of the Dlardragths, despite being a half-fiend).  Along the way, she visited the Frog God's Fane, and had a few other minor adventures.  If we've encountered each other, this would be the period in which we did, ranging from 15th to 20th level.

And now, the present...

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## Toliudar

Since Eilyra and Ash are the characters dipping into the 'deep end of the alignment pool', so to speak, perhaps having a past sympatico relationship might be interesting.  

*Spoiler: Something like this?*
Show


There are so many similarities between Eilyra and Ash - tortured past, fiendish wings, extraordinary casting, smart-person-for-hire-in-Sigil vibe - that it was almost inevitable that they ended up being considered for the same gig.  Or, occasionally, hired to work together.  

This is the third errand for Rule of Three that the pair have undertaken together.  The first took them out to Avernus to retrieve an orb that defied even their considerable talents of divination in determining the nature, and the second involved taking a piece of the heart of a dead god floating in the astral plane - complicated primarily by the fact that the dead god was also the fortress of a bunch of xenophobic githyanki (is there any other kind).  

By not ever really trusting each other, the pair have come to trust each other, and certainly to respect each other's talents. In straight-up fights, Ash usually defers to Eilyra, providing spells and escapes.  Each has now saved the other's life once, although both have the good manners not to have pointed this out.

Suitably epic?

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## kinem

*Spoiler: Ash*
Show

Divination (1d100)[*99*]

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## Archmage1

Hm... I think... maybe.  But... the real question is... what sort of relationship do we want to try to create?  Rivals?  Frenemies?  Reluctant allies?  Coworkers?
Also, no RoT.  Eilyra's last interaction with him left a fairly poor impression.


Edit:  Another possible interaction:  Translating some of Ash's spells into arcane divination spells?

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## Toliudar

Archmage:

As to their relationship - I get the impression that they're both fairly hard-edged and closed-off women.  So I see mutual respect, and perhaps a shared dark sense of humour, but not galpals.  Your thoughts?

I'm happy to have had them working together for another client instead of RoT.  Are there any factions that Eilyra might have either a membership in or at least a kinship with?  Ash would most naturally connect with the Athar, Transcendent Order or Mercykillers.  Maybe they could have been doing favours for a higher-up in one of the factions.

Most of Ash's divinations are arcane...but that's a cool ability that Eilyra's got!

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## Archmage1

Sadly, the factions kinda got... wiped, and I'm not entirely familiar with what replaced them.

I can see respect(Grudgingly), maybe humor(Although Eilyra tends to be fairly straight-edged).  Galpals is unlikely, to say the least.

We could leave the specifics of the potential employer in the somewhat vague?  A sort of black-markety type, who hired the pair of them to retrieve the magical orb(While hoping that one would kill the other, and thus give a discount)  They both surveyed it, detected the surveillance of the other, and formed an alliance.

As for Eilyra converting Ash's divinations to wizard spells... that, alas, would be fluff(Eilyra does, after all, need to get the spells she learns on level up from somewhere...), since the only RAW way I can see it happening would be a Dark Chaos Shuffle(Which Eilyra could, hypothetically do, if she had the spells), to give Ash Scribe Scroll.

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## Toliudar

Ah!  I'm not up to speed on my Sigil current affairs.  From Kinem's initial post, it sounds like some are still present as a less official force in the city - maybe that's enough.  But I'm fine with a to-be-fleshed-out-black-marketeer as well.

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## Archmage1

This sounds like a plan.   :Small Smile:

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## Archmage1

And so, we have an important question.

Is telepathy blocked by Mind Blank?

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## kinem

Yes, it is. So is Mindsight.

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## Toliudar

Source for that? 




> The subject is protected from all *devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts*. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subjects mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isnt detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.


Telepathy is neither a device nor a spell, so is not blocked by Mind Blank.  It's simply a different form of communication.  One could equally easily say that spoken or written words influence emotions, so therefore are not heard.

Sorry to be argumentative so early on.  If you say it's blocked, it's blocked.  I just don't understand why.

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## kinem

Telepathy is a Divination effect, hence is blocked by Mind Blank.

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## Archmage1

Not necessarily the path I would have thought of for mind blank blocking telepathy(Which I think does make sense)

*Spoiler: Monster Telepathy*
Show


"A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creatures entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time. "


*Spoiler: Mindbender Telepathy*
Show


Telepathy (Su): A mindbender unlocks one of the most basic elements of his mental craft at 1st level, gaining the ability to communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language.



Telepathy is mind affecting(By definition), so mind blank would block it.  Although, from a RAW perspective, it is annoying that they defined Telepathy in a recursive fashion.  
"Telepathy?  It lets you talk to someone telepathically."  
"What does that actually mean"  
"I dunno.  Cool stuff.  OOh!  Let's make them eat brains too!"

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## kinem

Spells like Telepathic Bond are, ironically, not Mind Affecting, so they can be used on undead for example. However, it is Divination.

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## Cavir

> *Spoiler: Avakuss*
> Show
> 
> OOC: Seems like a Spot check would be more appropriate.
> 
> In any case, you don't see Rule or Joel just yet. A few unusual individuals catch your eye (the other PCs).


I was actually talking about information gathering at the Gymnasium.

Guess I forgot to sub to this thread. Last I had seen here was the IC announcement. Sorry wasn't trying to ignore you all  :Small Red Face:

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## Toliudar

So...there are divinations like Foresight or Moment of Prescience for which the target is the caster, and a ton of positive effects (heroism, bardic music, etc) that are mind-affecting.  Just so that I'm clear: If I have Mind Blank up, I can't benefit from any of those?  And I can't hear anyone else's telepathy, but can still send out my own thoughts?

I'm just trying to follow the ramifications of all this.  Clearly, I'll need to rework my buff list.  Sorry for any inconvenience.

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## Archmage1

Mind Blank would block any mind affecting spell or affect.  Heroism and bardic music included.  It shouldn't block moment of prescience, the various eye spells, and the like, although such spells won't see the caster.

Edit: So, I had a few minutes free, and did a quick test combat, a Balor vs Eilyra.  Eilyra lost, as Implosion is super effective.  On the bright side, she did scratch the paint, dealing 2d10 damage first!   :Small Smile:

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## Archmage1

Is Taric approaching the table that Ash and Eilyra are at, or someone else?

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## kinem

Yes he is, Id say.

Toliudar: Mind Blank does block those things, including Moment of Prescience. 

On the plus side, it also protects you from being targeted by True Strike, but not from using it, per Monte Cook.

It does not protect against See Invisibility. This has been debated but WotC employees have said it does not and thats what Im going with.

Now that I think about it, for Telepathy I think having MB up would prevent you from sending but not from receiving 🙀

Its a powerful spell with significant trade offs, which is fine with me. Of course, NPCs who use the spell face the same limitations. 

I have not played much at high level and this sort of thing goes to show that theres a big difference between just reading rules and crafting characters versus actually playing in a game where unexpected interactions suddenly matter.

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## Archmage1

Er... wouldn't it be the other way around, for telepathy?  If you are sending, you are affecting someone else's mind(Which is not affected by Mind blank), whereas if you are receiving, your mind is affected?

I'm not quite sure how Mind Blank and Moment of Prescience are interacting, however.  Mind Blank doesn't provide a blanket immunity to divination spells, just information gathering ones(Which Moment isn't.), or mind affecting ones(Which Moment also isn't.)

Edit:  Heroism is mind affecting, and would definitely be blocked, although if it were cast before the blank, it would work.

"The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects."

verses

"This spell grants you a powerful sixth sense in relation to yourself. Once during the spells duration, you may choose to use its effect. This spell grants you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (maximum +25) on any single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesnt take an action; you can even activate it on another characters turn if needed. You must choose to use the moment of prescience before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the spell ends. "

5th edition's mind blank, on the other hand, would say no to moment of prescience, as it is a blanket immunity to divination spells, unlike 3.5's version.  Unless we are defining information gathering as anything that would affect the creature in any way.

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## Toliudar

So, to recap, with Mind Blank active:

Telepathy coming in is not blocked, but going out is.  So I can see creatures via mindsight, but not talk to them.  And if a creature has telepathy, it can talk with me.

Personal divinations are blocked, see invisibility is not, and if someone tries to use true strike (and presumably true casting) against me, they don't gain the insight bonus.  If a divination explicitly provides specific knowledge about the individual covered by mind blank, or is mind-affecting, then it's blocked, but divinations like Hypercognition, that supercharge the reasoning of the caster rather than directly gathering information about the target, would still provide info on someone with Mind Blank.  So far so good?

Since skills like bluff, diplomacy and intimidate are on the face of them designed to change the thoughts and emotions of the recipient, these are presumably also blocked by Mind Blank, since words coming in from the ears are just as mind affecting as words arriving via telepathy.  An interesting question would be whether the words spoken by someone using a social skill are not heard by someone using Mind Blank, or if the words are heard but there's need to counter a skill check.

Whew!

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## Archmage1

Hm... other option, and, honestly, probably the better one:  Ban Mind Blank.  It shuts down 1 school of magic completely(Enchantment), Seriously screws with another(Divination) in unpredictable ways, and is leading to discord.  It is also not a terribly well balanced spell.(Of course, Eilyra's will save is fairly awful, so I would be sad, but...)

Or shift it to blocking mind affecting, but not information gathering?  Or something? (Steal the pathfinder version, which is rather clearer(Ish)(At least true strike isn't listed)  This is getting a bit contentious.

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## kinem

Social skills are not blocked by Mind Blank.

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## Cavir

<sitting back with popcorn, watching the entertainment>

Before this game I never had mind blank plus with the general advice that at high level most things are immune to mind-affecting, I tended to avoid anything mind-affecting. I'll just go with whatever is final. Avakuss does have it, but I'm open to swapping out that power if needed.

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## kinem

Its not going to be banned. You should probably keep it as an option, just be aware of the trade-offs.

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## Toliudar

I'd also be very comfortable with banning mind blank, but will stop using it anyway because the weirdness around these interactions is starting to make my own mind go blank.  I'll post a revised long-term buffstack (sorry, she's a theurge without material combat skills - spells are how she's stayed alive) ASAP, but will hope not to get in the way of moving forward IC.

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## Archmage1

So, a clarification question on things.

Let's say Eilyra has both Mind Blank and Moment of Prescience active.
A rather unruly Balor decides to cast Implosion at her.
Is she able to use the Moment to boost her fortitude save?
Does this answer change if the Balor is using Mind Blank?  Or if she is not, and the Balor is?

Or the other spell that may be unclear:  Eyes of the Oracle.  If Eilyra has Mind Blank up, and casts Eyes of the Oracle, would she receive the benefits?  What if the opponent is running Mind Blank as well?

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## kinem

There are no clear and official answers. In the interest of playability, I'm going to house rule as follows:

- Mind Blank will not block effects that affect sudden die rolls without giving other information to the caster. 

This means that True Strike, Moment of Prescience, and similar spells WILL NOT be blocked by it after all.

- For telepathy, if you have MB up, outgoing communication is blocked.

- If you have Mindsight, you can still use it, but it will not detect a creature that has Mind Blank up.

- See Invisibility is not blocked by Mind Blank.

Hopefully that settles the question. BTW, there are potential antagonists in the game who have access to Mind Blank.

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## Archmage1

That does indeed settle the question!

And for some reason, I'm not terribly surprised that there are potential antagonists in the game with access to Mind Blank.  No Discern Location, Scry, and Teleport Shenanigans for us!

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## Toliudar

We'll just have to combine our divinations with good old fashioned beating people up for information investigative techniques.  :Small Smile:

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## Archmage1

That most effective of interrogation techniques:  The lead pipe.

Or, I suppose, GDM + detect thoughts, but that's plan B.

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## Toliudar

As is often the case, 'and' is better than 'or' in this case. If we can beat someone senseless, it's a great way to then remove magical protections and make sure they fail will saves.

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## Archmage1

Ah, making people fail will saves.  Another entry on the long list of things Eilyra doesn't do.

The trick is to make them want to fail.   :Small Tongue:

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## Archmage1

Da'Shain, I hope your exams went well!

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## paradox26

I am going out of town tomorrow, and won't be back for a week. I am not sure if I will have internet access, so I may not be able to post for the next week.

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## Archmage1

Has anyone attempted to message Da'Shain?

paradox, I hope you have a wonderful time on your trip.

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## kinem

No one should have to be cajoled into playing. I hope Da'Shain posts, but I am fine to go forward with 4 players for now.

Have a good trip, Paradox.

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## Archmage1

(1d20+36)[*55*] Know:  Planes, to identify Center of All?

(1d20+39)[*52*] Know:  Nature, for spoiler.(I think Eilyra has a chance here, guys!)(Also, ah... what, if anything else does she know about Glooms?)

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## Archmage1

And because I probably should have started thinking about my response in more detail before asking for more information...

(1d20+36)[*51*] Know:  Religion(Or Planes.  Or Local.  Same bonus), regarding Tharzidun.

(1d20+36)[*49*] Know:  Religion(Or Planes.  Or Local.  Same bonus), regarding the Mad Rajah?

(1d20+36)[*50*] Know:  Religion(Or Planes.  Or Local.  Same bonus), regarding Vayyel

(1d20+36)[*40*] Know:  Religion(Or Planes.  Or Local.  Same bonus), regarding Gargauth 

(1d20+36)[*43*] Know:  Religion(Or Planes.  Or Local.  Same bonus), regarding Graz'zt

Edit:  My Initial thoughts:  Well, Discern Location would be nice.  The whole "Needing to have touched the object, or seen the creature" is a touch limiting, though.  Ooh!  Retrievers can do it too, and if we can get Center of All to give the order, and we have planar binding.  Retrievers are constructs, and are thus not affected by Planar Binding.  Gate is a thing, but 1000 XP is a lot to pay.  We can try scrying the gloom(Yeah... it does get a +10 on the save most likely, so probably not going to happen), or hope that Center of All got a piece of it?

Edit the 2nd:  Kinem, I'm sorry.  If the rolls are high enough, I can just google the various individuals, and see what there is to know?

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## kinem

> Edit the 2nd:  Kinem, I'm sorry.  If the rolls are high enough, I can just google the various individuals, and see what there is to know?


With rolls like those ... be my guest  :Small Cool:

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## Archmage1

Not much on the Mad Raja, or Vayyel, sadly.  I'm assuming that the Mad Rajah is some sort of Rakshasha lord, and Vayyel a cornugon of some stripe?

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## kinem

Pretty much.

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## Da'Shain

I apologize for the delay.  My exams went alright, then I got my second vaccine dose, and it did ... not go alright.  Could barely look at a computer screen for a few days.  I will catch up and get a post up.

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## Archmage1

2nd dose is fun.  I was pretty Bleh for a couple of days, and failed to sleep, which made the third day a doozy.

I am glad you're feeling better.

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## Da'Shain

Thanks!

On the Mind Blank discussion: is it possible to turn magic item buffs on and off?  Having the option to flick a switch, as it were, would make the tradeoffs easier to deal with.  Otherwise, as it shuts down some of her shtick, I may drop the Third Eye Conceal and get Mind Blank from a bind if she needs it instead.

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## Archmage1

You can take the item in question off and put it back on again afterwards.  For the most part(With some exceptions), that would work.

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## kinem

DaShain, good to hear that you are feeling better and to see you back (so to speak).

Archmage1 has the right idea on the magic items.

When your PC arrives, the bartender Mugsy will send you to the back room where the others are.

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## Archmage1

It does seem a bit sad that Eilyra's approach can be fairly summed up as  
"Ok, what do I get out of this?"  "Exposure!"
"That is not ideal.  What can I do to make this go away with the least amount of effort?" "Sic the gods on it."
"So, let's do that"  "That's a terrible idea, because reasons."

So, next step:  "Well... I'm not convinced we're going to accomplish anything, but ancient libraries tend to have useful and interesting things in them, and I suppose some light reading wouldn't hurt."  _Plus maybe I can collect some useful contacts for more productive ends in the future._

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## Da'Shain

I didn't put it in the post, but yeah, that's partially Edigaria's angle too.  Even if this key thingy turns out to be a bust or too dangerous, ancient planar libraries are likely to have enough loot in them that she could theoretically cut her losses after and be no worse off, whereas with a trip to a dead-magic zone or a combat expedition into Hell, there's far less obvious gain to be had.

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## Archmage1

A narrowly focused combat expedition into the Abyss, or some other location could be quite profitible as well, provided we maintained a solid escape plan.

At the moment, Eilyra does have such a plan available, but... it is self only.  Mostly. 
Edit:  And is slightly cheesy.  (Shapechange into either a Bebilith, or a Phoenix, both of which offer self only travel methods.)

----------


## Cavir

From the last trip to Pandemonium (previous game), the environmental threats were the insanity inspiring wind noises and the flying rocks. Does Adapt Body deal with those?

----------


## Archmage1

As it seems like it is going to be relevant... (1d20+36)[*42*] Know:  Planes:  What does Eilyra know about the risks of Pandemonium?(This question does seem strangely familiar, almost like another character asked it in another game...)

(Of course, at the moment, she doesn't have any spells that are likely to help, but...)

If the answer is "She knows what the book says" that works too.

Edit:  The curse of a wizard:  I really wish I'd taken some different spells, and had memorized different ones.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Adapt Body does not help with those.

Archmage1: She knows the basic risks of that plane, yes. (Wind noises that cause insanity, flying rocks, slaadi, etc.)

Da'Shain: Impressive Knowledge (Planes) there!
*Spoiler: Edigaria*
Show

Mad Rajah, Manapora: Once a powerful leader among the rakshasas in ancient times, his behavior grew more erratic, and he was involved in numerous attacks on several planes. The baatezu were among the targets, and they captured him. He had links to the Cult of Tharizdun, and almost anyone who did seemed to go mad eventually.

Known as a powerful epic spellcaster, he was able to gather information that few others could, and in battle he was at least as powerful as an archdevil.

Vayyel: A former Duke among the baatezu who served under Geryon, the powerful two-headed cornugon became an outcast when his lord was cast down. He is said to have magical powers beyond the usual for his kind.

----------


## Archmage1

And... Edited, to include a threat assessment of Pandemonium, recommending ear plugs and empty minds.

Deafened is kinda nasty, since a 20% spell failure rate is less than fun.

----------


## Archmage1

Time for some more knowledge!

The Day of Reflection:  This seems important.  A holiday of some sort? (1d20+36)[*53*](Know:  Planes, Local, Arcana, or Religion)
Bright Bondage?  This seems almost like a "If the good gods achieve supremacy", but... (1d20+36)[*37*](Know:  Planes, Local, Arcana, or Religion)
And Gamayun?  Is she a reliable prophetess?  Is the day of reflection associated with her? (1d20+36)[*54*](Know:  Planes, Local, Arcana, or Religion)

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Archmage1*
Show

The Day of Reflection: You don't know what this refers to. Many religions have holidays that fit the general concept of a day for thinking and consideration, but for Gamayun's followers, that would have been redundant as every day required such reflection. This seems more like a singular event.

Bright Bondage: Or this. Most likely, since it's part of a prophecy, these things will only be clear when the time comes, if at all. 

Gamayun: An ancient goddess, with the body of a bird and the head of a woman, who lived on an island in Elysium. She was said to know everything and spoke many prophecies. Some of the prophecies came true, while others have not yet done so, and it's hard to know if they ever will. One prophecy spoke of her return; she has not been seen or heard from since about 800 years ago.

----------


## Archmage1

On a tangential note, I was thinking about the gloves of the master strategist, and the ability to store and unstore a weapon as a free action.  This would allow "flickering" the weapon, to avoid parries, or only "drawing" the weapon at the very end of a strike, and other such things(Which would be flavor), and would probably be kinda awesome.  
However, that does run into the problem of momentum, and all that, but that probably doesn't matter, unless you really want it to.

That said, there is also the less cheesy option:  Vanishing your weapon at the end of each round, to avoid sundering.  Since you can do free actions as part of any actions(Even an AoO), you could just re-draw the weapon as a part of the attack, and then vanish it again afterwards.

Do these things seem reasonable?  I couldn't really think of any other applications, beyond maybe spellcasting, if you are using two one handed weapons, and need a hand free.

----------


## Toliudar

There are a couple of rule-of-thumb limits on what you can do with a free action. The first is that it's usually linked to you taking another action ("while taking another action normally").  And the second is the 'don't be a d*ck' statement:




> However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.


So my assumption, for example would be that if you're not armed, you can't use a free action to become armed in order to take an AoO, because there was no action open to you onto which to tag that free action.  Nor could you strobe it on and off as part of an attack, but could take the free action at the start or end of an attack action. 

My .02

----------


## Archmage1

To be honest, I figured that vanishing and reappearing the sword while fighting would be more flavor than anything, just a fun way to show off, as it were.  Then I realized it might have an actual mechanical effect, so I asked.   :Small Smile: 

As for Eilyra's obstreperousness IC regarding loot splitting... with a decent sense motive, you can probably figure that she's mostly interested in not giving RoT a full share.

----------


## kinem

I'd say that 'flickering' with the glove would not work. You could make the weapon vanish at the end of your actions then return at the start of your actions, though. Also, you can't do it while flat-footed.

----------


## Archmage1

If we went shopping, Eilyra would pick up a set of tuning forks, for plane shift, and maybe a dagger(On the list of finessable weapons she is proficient with, dagger is half of them.).  Possibly even a healing belt, but probably not.  What could go wrong with having no healing?

I would suggest picking up more spells, but it is a minimum of 32 hours straight to copy a new spell into a spellbook, which is prohibitive when on a schedule.(Mass resist energy, and mass fire shield could be handy, depending on what we run into.  Or other suggestions.  Eilyra has a list, but they're mostly not terribly group friendly.)

----------


## Toliudar

To be clear, we don't have NO healing. Ash does have Heal and Mass Heal memorized, and a smattering of others.  She just doesn't have spontaneous healing.

----------


## Archmage1

:Small Smile:   I know.  Other characters have healing.

Eilyra's sole source of healing is the vest of the archmagi, which, ah... not exactly the most desirable source of healing.(Heal 5*spell level for burning a slot)(Ok, admittedly, she currently has 1550 points of healing available, if needed, which is a lot.)

----------


## Cavir

> Or other suggestions


Just tossing up some ideas.
Invisibility, Mass (or Sphere)
Web
Any Image spell
Heroics

Avakuss does have Empathic Transfer, which can be absorbed via Vigor or given back to the enemy as Hostile Empathic Transfer. It can get power point intensive so best for those near death. 7PP for 10d10 healing, then half that as damage to me.

Speaking of Hostile Empathic Transfer, it wasn't until this week I noticed the updated version in CPSi, which cuts its usefulness by more than half  :Small Furious:

----------


## Archmage1

You make some excellent arguments(As I edit the list of spells to snag).  Admittedly, I'm not sure on the priorities, and if she goes into incantatrix, either evocation or illusion will be banned(Probably illusion).  
Other options would be level 10 in swiftblade(Kinda boring, because time stop.), advancing in ruathar(Also boring), elf paragon(She technically doesn't qualify), dragonslayer(Gives actual weapon proficiencies, and qualifies her for a lot more stuff), wrym wizard(Which is pretty amazing, but definitely not in character)
Eilyra's problem with prestige classes:  She doesn't have the weapon proficiencies more martial classes require, and doesn't have the metamagic that more magical classes tend to require.  Also, SR is annoying.

*Spoiler: The current list*
Show


Fireball(3), Lightning bolt(3), Superior Invisibility(8), True Seeing(6), Dismissal(5), Wall of Force(5), Ruin Delver's Fortune(4), tentacles(4) , Acid Fog(6), Finger of Death(7), Ethereal Jaunt(7), Limited Wish(7), Prismatic Wall(8), Maze(8), Prismatic Sphere(9), Permanency(5), Anticipate Teleportation, Greater(6), Ray Deflection(4), Mass Resist Energy(4), Some orb spell(4), Greymantle(5), Bite of the Weretiger(6) or Werebear(7), Chain Dispel(8), Solid Fog(4), Detonate(9), Wind Wall(3), Sending(5), Fire Shield(4), Mass Fire Shield(5), Howling Chain(6), Instant Refuge(9), Antimagic Field(6), Reaving Dispel(9), Ray of Exhaustion(3), Escalating Enfeeblement(2), Horrid Wilting(8), Various Shadow Spells(4, 5, 7, 8, 9), Control Weather(7), Invisibility(Mass)(7), Invisibility Sphere(3), Image spells(1, 2, 3, 6), Heroics(2)

----------


## paradox26

I am back from my vacation. Catching up now on missed posts.

----------


## Archmage1

Big things Eilyra would gain from prep/resting.  Tuning forks, and preparing plane shift, to allow for a group emergency escape.
Memorizing 9th level spells that work on chaotic things.
Recovering a smattering of spent spells(Extend Spell:  An amazing thing.)

If we want to wait, say, a week, Eilyra could learn some more nifty spells, but that isn't really an option currently.

----------


## Cavir

FYI, This Friday I'm leaving for vacation until 6/7. I should have some access during the time.

Just thought of something, Empathic Transfer (Hostile) is Mind-Affecting. Does the Mind Blank ruling mean I can't use it if I have Mind Blank up?

----------


## kinem

Yes, the Mind Blank would prevent it from working.

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## Archmage1

Ash has mindblank up, right?




> There are no clear and official answers. In the interest of playability, I'm going to house rule as follows:
> 
> - Mind Blank will not block effects that affect sudden die rolls without giving other information to the caster. 
> 
> This means that True Strike, Moment of Prescience, and similar spells WILL NOT be blocked by it after all.
> 
> - For *telepathy, if you have MB up, outgoing communication is blocked.*
> 
> - If you have Mindsight, you can still use it, but it will not detect a creature that has Mind Blank up.
> ...

----------


## kinem

Center has Mind Blank up and will cast it on Taric. He can cast it one more time today after that.

I think Eilyra and Ash have it up ...

Who has it up, doesnt but will, or doesnt want to? It should come in handy in Pandemonium.

Joel and Rule do not have Mind Blanks.

As a non-spellcaster Center cant use wands and will decline it. He just has a lot of spell-like abilities.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra does have it up.  Her current buff list is...

Extended Moment of Prescience(44 hours)(Burning Blackfire)
Extended Mind Blank(48 hours)
All four Heart spells(22 hours)
Extended Contingency(If health between 0 and 30, Pop Resilient Sphere around Eilyra, 5 foot area.)(44 days)
Extended Greater Magic Weapon(On her sword)(+5)(44 hours)
(As you might have guessed, Eilyra has a CL of 22, via practiced caster, an orange ioun stone, and a ring...)

Ash and Edigaria are the two who could use the wand.   :Small Smile:   Silly gods, not realizing the superior nature of arcane spells, and using divine magic instead...

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss:

Cloak of Displacement: 20% miss chance
Inertial Armor  +13 AC  
Mind Blank, Personal
Dispelling Buffer 
Adapt Body
Vigor. 25 temp hp
Energy Adaptation
Steadfast Perception
Ear plugs

If Joel is coming he should keep the wand.

----------


## Toliudar

> Ash has mindblank up, right?


I've had to remove Mind Blank because of that ruling.  She'll be relying on Nondetection and a good will save instead.  Also, "Silly gods!" would be a decent mission statement for Ash.

Permanent spells for Ash:
Arcane Sight
Read Magic
See Invisibility
Tongues

Spells active when she steps through the portal:
Anticipate Teleport (Greater) 
Endure Elements *
Energy Immunity - Fire
Foresight
Hunter's Eye (+7d6 bonus)
Magic Weapon, Greater *
Magic Vestment *
Moment of Prescience
Nondetection
Greater Magic Weapon *
Visions of the Future
Contingency (Heal, triggered by Ash being affected by an injury that would render her unconscious or dead)
True Seeing

Other active effects:
Freedom of Movement
Sense all spellcasting within 60'


If no one else takes the wand, Ash will hold onto it.  Of the group, she's probably the one most likely to be useless in a fight anyway.

----------


## Archmage1

Strangely, I considered dropping mind blank, but Eilyra's will is ~5 points below average in the group(She has weak will, and the wisdom the average lemming would look down upon.).  Taric should probably always be given Mind Blank as well.
Of course, her fortitude save is worse, relatively, at an 18.  (Turns out, 20 levels in things that don't have good fort saves means a poor fort save) Which means moment of prescience is not going to last too long. :(  (There is a reason ruin delver's fortune is on her list of spells to learn, even if she will need something to boost charisma to make it decent)

And that is quite a long list of buffs.  :)
That said... the heal contingency, while amazing, might not quite work out:  If you go below -10 from the injury, you die, even if the heal triggers.  So it really only works if you go somewhere between 0 and -9, which... isn't much leeway.  If you want to go that route, a revivify might be a better option?  Or shift it to be something like less than 30 hp?(Or even 50, which would ensure that no healing is wasted, and make an instantly deadly strike unlikely.)

----------


## Toliudar

That's a good point re heal.  Thanks!  With Kinem's permission, I'll shift it to less than 50.

----------


## kinem

Toliudar: That's fine.

Joel won't be coming along, so unless Edigaria indicates otherwise, Ash will carry the Restoration wand.

Da'Shain: Does Edigaria want a Mind Blank from Center?

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## Archmage1

And... I knew I'd forgotten something!  Edited to include a quick response to Ash's telepathy!

So, I've edited in a simple response.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

> One of her spells, I think it's Visions of the Future, gives her the ability to roll twice and take the better result on all saves.


That's not what Visions of the Future does, so please check on that. I don't see anything in her buff stack that would do that, but I might be overlooking something. It would be a rather powerful ability.

In any case, she succeeded on the first roll.

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## Toliudar

I've confused myself as well.  I think I may have incorrectly noted the benefits of Fate of One, which allows me to reroll a save.  My mistake - sorry!  Getting settled into these epic characters takes time.

----------


## kinem

OK. Technically I don't think a psionic power is a legitimate option for the Unseen Seer's Advanced Learning, but I'll allow it.

BTW what does your other Advanced Learning, Chain Destiny, do and what's the sourcebook?

----------


## Cavir

Will DC22 (1d20+28)[*41*]
What was the height & width of the next tunnel?

----------


## kinem

Avakuss has Mind Blank up, right? If so he doesnt have to roll the Will save. Only Ash doesnt have it up.

Avakuss recalls that the entrance from the 30 diameter tunnel to the large cavern was about 10 in diameter.

----------


## Toliudar

Kinem, can we see anything on the other side of the portal?  Does the wind hide all details?

----------


## kinem

The tunnel is pitch black, but in spite of grit and dust in the air, you can see up to the limit of your darkvision. I think that's 60' for everyone.

The tunnel is 30' wide, roughly circular, and has rough sides. There's not really more to be seen at this point.

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## Archmage1

Depending on what Eilyra sees, she's going to be rolling for knowledge, to identify what we're up against, and for knowledge devotion.  She can also cast one more spell.

----------


## kinem

BTW, I know I have not been using much Planar Cant so far in this game. Partly that's intentional (in the last several years, some of the city's unique character has been lost as primes and others have been moving in and the Factions have been largely absent, so people use standard Common more) and partly it's just because it's easier to ignore it. I do think it adds worthwhile flavor though. Opinions?

----------


## Archmage1

Planar Cant is a very interesting thing, and quite fun to see and use.  That said, it also depends on the characters in question:  I imagine that more street level people use it more often, to show off their value as touts, as translators, and so forth.  High-up's, in comparison, may be significantly less likely to use it.   :Small Smile: 

(1d20+36)[*43*] Know:  Religion(For Knowledge devotion)

*Edit*:  Bloodhulks are fully mindless, and wouldn't be seen by mindsight.

----------


## kinem

Toliudar: I forgot that about GAS. You see that its *Spoiler*
Show

desecrate
.

Archmage1: Undead are immune to effects that require Fort saves unless objects could also be affected. Eilyra would know that, so you can reconsider your action.

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## Archmage1

Thank you, and that was my derp.  I even checked the undead statblock, and skipped over that list of things!

Instead, she's casting Glitterdust.  Not as likely to fail the save(Curse that good undead will save), but it will actually work.

In retrospect, I probably should have prepared a few more castery spells, rather than mostly meleeish spells.

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## kinem

Saves vs Glitterdust Will DC 24: (1d20+13)[*30*], (1d20+13)[*16*]

----------


## kinem

> If there were creatures where the numbers 1 and 2 are on the map, Ash would normally sense them with Mindsight? That is to say, is mindsight blocked by normal walls?
> Greater Arcane Sight not only allows the seeing of schools of magic, but automatically detects specific spells and effects? So if Ash isn't getting a specific effect, the spell is somehow masked?
> Mind Blank shields the subject, but not itself - in other words, I can't detect anything about the individual, but I can still sense the presence of mind blank on my colleagues, since Arcane Sight isn't targeting them in any way?


As far as I can tell, there's no rule that Mindsight is blocked by walls, though maybe it should be. The monsters were not detected in this case because they are mindless. As noted above, you did see what the magic was; I just forgot about that at first.

BTW, Ash knows that the SLA that Center cast on himself was Magic Circle Against Evil, since it's an area effect.

The Mind Blank question is a little tricky. I'd say that if you can see the individual, you can sense the Mind Blank with the Arcane Sight.

----------


## Toliudar

Sounds good all around.  Thanks for the clarifications!

----------


## Archmage1

It's a difficult battle, but if we all work together, we can make it through!  We just need to stab or slash them to death, and avoid their readied actions!(Probably)!

Also, they have a really high attack, and do a lot of damage.

----------


## kinem

I knew that I was asking for trouble with a party of 5 players.

Paradox & Da'Shain ... everything OK?

Should we start a shot clock?

----------


## paradox26

Sorry I disappeared. I returned from vacation and thought I could post, but renovations on my house continued after I returned. I ended up losing power for most of the last week, and could only check in on my phone, so I didn't have access to my character sheet. This is because as well as renovating, I had to buy a new computer, and have spend the last couple of days transferring all of my files to the new one. So I have only just been able to come online properly.

----------


## kinem

P26, good to hear youre alright and back. As for Tarics action, so its just to delay for now, I take it?

----------


## Cavir

Welcome back paradox26. Doesn't sound like fun with the house.

In case it's needed, anyone skilled with Warlocks/Binders to (hopefully only) temporarily run Edigaria? I'd normally volunteer to learn/run but I'm away this week

----------


## Archmage1

I'm not terribly familiar with binders, but warlocks I do know, and Shadowmaster is a pretty amazing feat(Basically, get all the wizard/sorc conjuration spells of 8th level or below).  I'm not sure what the note of "Spell Level 10" means, and presumably the CL of the spells would be the warlock level.  Hellfire blast cheese is in play.
I'm also not sure how Horseshoes of flame actually work.  She can use them, but they also turn her into a creature resembling a nightmare, and I'm not seeing a method to transform back, and keep the stat bonuses(Which are included on the sheet.)

----------


## kinem

TBH, I should have checked sheets more carefully. When I okd the horseshoes as boots, I didnt remember the Int bonus. But its fine. I assume that DaShain interprets the effect as causing the character to resemble a dire flaming version of herself rather than a horse-like Nightmare.

Something else I forgot:
*Spoiler: Ash*
Show

With your Mindsight you can sense an Outsider of Int 16 where the 00s are in the cave on the map.

----------


## Toliudar

The Binder abilities that Edigaria has are likely to be overshadowed by the at-will shadow conjuration, although the every-five-rounds summons and dazing attack will both have niche abiity, and the Naberius binding supports Edigaria's role as a negotiator/face well.

The Horseshoes of Flame are indeed problematic.  I guess it could be interesting if they DO transform Edigaria into a nightmare, forcing her into a series of interesting work-arounds to regain a humanoid-ish appearance.

----------


## Archmage1

That said, since Taric is holding back, it probably makes sense for Edigaria to either wait, like Taric, or to cast something defensive, such as dark foresight.

Although...
She seems to have a greater bloodline, and no levels spent on it, which is incorrect.  And I think she's missing Force of Personality's boost to her Will save, but I don't know where the +15 to fort is coming from(It appears to be a CHA to fort effect, so it may be a mistake?)

----------


## Toliudar

Zceryll's standard-action summons of a gargantuan pseudonatural spider would plug up the entrance nicely, and allow us to snipe around it as needed.

----------


## Archmage1

See, that sounds like a plan that results in spiders.

Why have spiders when we could have... elementals, or centipedes, or t-rexes, or all sorts of far more cuddly things?  :P

----------


## kinem

Under the circumstances, would you mind a retcon? Edigaria could have been given another lead to follow up on while the rest of you investigate the Pandemonium library. If Da'Shain returns, that could have been dealt with quickly so Edigaria will join the rest of you; if not, that side trek could last indefinitely.

----------


## Cavir

The summons is just a std action? Wow. Something that fully plugs the entrance would hinder several of us. Something to show up at the entrance to spring whatever trap there is, then can teleport to the other side of the enemy would be great. From there it could give us flanking or it could go whatever is in the back to keep it from bothering us. 

My tentative plan for Avakuss is:
Move: move to be north of the entrance but more than 15' away so out of reach.
Std: Greater Stomp to knock down the enemy at the entrance spoiling their attacks. Assuming I can't see what is in the back. Even if the summon is in the way, oh well.
Swift: Hustle to get within attack range so I can hit them as they stand up (with bonuses on AoOs). I have 15' reach so need enough space to get that close.

I can also Dimension Slide past the entrance and get in the face of whatever is in the back, once we know what it is. Could also dimension door all of us across but that leaves us surrounded. With Huge, Haste, and Flurry of Blows I can give a good beating.

Kinem, want one of us to pull the trigger?

----------


## kinem

Ninja'd. See my suggestion above.

----------


## Archmage1

That seems like a perfectly acceptable fix, kinem.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Cavir

OK with me.

EDIT: WOW, ninja'd twice in a row!

----------


## Toliudar

Fine with me as well.

----------


## Archmage1

And, of course, depending on what Eilyra sees, she may or may not do something else with her final action.(Like, say... Baleful Polymorph the thing that might not be immune to said spell?  But that will depend.)

Look, I might be amused with the idea of turning an enemy into a turtle, training it to be a loyal servant, and then maybe doing something with it.

----------


## kinem

Bloodhulks Reflex vs Greater Stomp DC 24 (1d20+8)[*11*], (1d20+8)[*15*]

----------


## Archmage1

Since Ash mentioned that there was another outsider in the room, and Eilyra doesn't see one, despite being in the room, do you mind if she uses her perpetual options action from last round to cast see invisibility?

Edit:  Derp.  This is just her perpetual options action, and swift.

----------


## Toliudar

Kinem, Ash has an ungodly number of different effects in play, but she did cast True Seeing before going through the portal.  True Seeing is explicitly effective against Superior Invisibility.  Is there a different effect at play that would prevent Ash from seeing the creature in the cave?

----------


## Cavir

> Looks like either Ash lied or the monster has the rather impressive Superior form of invisibility.


Avakuss has Steadfast Perception (EPH p133) up which includes giving immunity to figments and glamers. My darkvision doesn't extend far enough so it's a mute point so far, but something to think about.

----------


## kinem

> Kinem, Ash has an ungodly number of different effects in play, but she did cast True Seeing before going through the portal.  True Seeing is explicitly effective against Superior Invisibility.  Is there a different effect at play that would prevent Ash from seeing the creature in the cave?


Actually that was my bad - I missed that True Seeing has 120' range, thought it was 60' for some reason. Who knew epic level 3.5 could get complicated?

Will Save vs Unluck DC 26: (1d20+17)[*27*]

*Spoiler: Ash sees*
Show

A creature that constantly melts and reforms, rapidly shifting into several horrifying forms, often with numerous eyes and tentacles. A skull as of a humanoid sits atop the monstrosity.

----------


## paradox26

I am a little rusty on this, so I am throwing the question to the group. Does wielding a large melee weapon offer increased range? I am wielding a large sied pair of dragonsplits, and can't be sure whether they offer a range of 10' or the standard 5'.

EDIT: Just rolled my IC dice, and forgot, having not used the roller for ages, that you can only do simple dice rolls on here. So Kinem, can you please check for me which attacks hit, and I will roll the damage again, to save making three posts in a row? Thanks. Or just roll the dice yourself, online or offline, as you prefer, if you prefer.

----------


## Archmage1

Multi-part dice rolling is fun.  And Kinem is probably rolling bonus damage for us too(Slashing and piercing damage gets a boost against bloodhulks, which I know I didn't include.

I do regret preparing a set of "Generic adventure spells" rather than combat spells, for Eilyra.  She can cast a lot, but... with reserving stuff to fight the gloom, she has surprisingly little offensive capability.  I suppose that's what I get for not playing in a high level game for a while.  At least, one that isn't NWN, with infinite rests...

*Spoiler: Rolls for Taric?*
Show


(1d8+15)[*21*] + (2d6)[*7*] Damage 1(Attack 46)
(1d8+15)[*19*] + (2d6)[*9*] Damage 2(Attack 31)
(1d8+15)[*23*] + (2d6)[*2*] Damage 3(Attack 27)
(1d8+15)[*18*] + (2d6)[*9*] Damage 4(Attack 35)

----------


## Cavir

> I do regret preparing a set of "Generic adventure spells" rather than combat spells, for Eilyra.  She can cast a lot, but... with reserving stuff to fight the gloom, she has surprisingly little offensive capability.


+40 attack is quite capable. Good to save the spells for when we need them. Center, Taric and Avakuss can handle the bloated bags of HPs. Avakuss might have another solution on the next round.

paradox26: with multiple dice types roll each separately and can be on the same line. Helpful dice rolling threads are stickied here.

----------


## Archmage1

If only she had power attack.   :Small Smile: 
It's more that I probably should have prepared different spells.  She's got too many self buffs that are situationally useful, and not enough disable/damage spells.  Luckily, that is a problem that can be fixed next rest.  

Downsides of dex fighting:  Your damage suffers.  She does have arcane strike, and with that, plus bounding assault, she can manage a fairly solid attack routine a few times per day.  :)

----------


## kinem

> I am a little rusty on this, so I am throwing the question to the group. Does wielding a large melee weapon offer increased range? I am wielding a large sied pair of dragonsplits, and can't be sure whether they offer a range of 10' or the standard 5'.
> 
> EDIT: Just rolled my IC dice, and forgot, having not used the roller for ages, that you can only do simple dice rolls on here. So Kinem, can you please check for me which attacks hit, and I will roll the damage again, to save making three posts in a row? Thanks. Or just roll the dice yourself, online or offline, as you prefer, if you prefer.


Wielding a Large melee weapon does not increase your Reach.

Archmage1 rolled damage for Taric so we'll use that.

When a Bloodhulk is hit by a Slashing or Piercing attack, it takes an extra 1d6 damage, so in the future add that to your damage against them when using such attacks.

----------


## Archmage1

Derp.  Editing slightly, as Eilyra is immune to energy drain effects, thanks to the Soulfire armor.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

Ash knowledge check to identify the creature: (1d20+18)[*38*]

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+36)[*48*] Know:  Planes, to identify it, and for knowledge devotion.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Ash*
Show

The monster used a spell-like ability. Once the invisibility was dispelled, there are currently no magical auras on it. The Bloodhulks just have _haste_ on them, and are in the area affected by _desecrate_ and _glitterdust_.

You recognize the monster as what's been called a "Black Beast of Bedlam'. Said to be spawned from the madness of deities, it's similar to a chaos beast in many ways, but more powerful and evil. Its attacks can cause a dangerous instability of form like those of a chaos beast. It also has many spell-like abilities, but Haste and Superior Invisibility are not normally among them. It has a poisonous breath weapon. It can mimic sounds and voices. It can use a skull to emit a screech that can damage minds and cause fear.


*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

You recognize the monster as what's been called a "Black Beast of Bedlam'. Said to be spawned from the madness of deities, it's similar to a chaos beast in many ways, but more powerful and evil. Its attacks can cause a dangerous instability of form like those of a chaos beast. It also has many spell-like abilities, but Haste and Superior Invisibility are not normally among them. It has a poisonous breath weapon. It can mimic sounds and voices. It can use a skull to emit a screech that can damage minds and cause fear. It heals quickly and and has tremorsense.

----------


## paradox26

Thanks for rolling the damage for me, Archmage. Appreciate it.

Also, thanks for the link to the dice commands, Cavir. I am slowly remembering them, it has just been a while since I had to do any complex rolls.

ED IT: Just made my new post. Made five attacks (forgot to add the haste attack last time), and in five attacks I rolled a 1 and a pair of 2s, balanced out by a natural 20. Wonderful.

----------


## Archmage1

I think the bloodhulks died this round, triggering the destruction explosions, so no need for turning. :)

----------


## kinem

The bloodhulks are indeed dead. I forgot to update their status on the map until now, so sorry about that.

----------


## Cavir

Fort DC 23 vs poison cloud (1d20+28)[*30*]

Since I'm taking up 15x15, am I able to take a 5' step to get out of the cloud?

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Yes.

----------


## Toliudar

> I think the bloodhulks died this round, triggering the destruction explosions, so no need for turning. :)


Thanks, and sorry.  I don't know how I missed that.  I'll post a revised action.

----------


## Archmage1

Er... regarding glitterdust...

I'm pretty sure it is a one and done deal.  The spell is cast, and applies to those within the area, and continues to apply to them until the duration ends, but people who enter the area afterwards don't need to make saves, and aren't affected.  If it is a continuous area of blind that sticks to people who leave... that would be a major boost in power.

----------


## kinem

The wording is not clear, but having googled it, the majority seems to think Glitterdust is not persistent in the area. So, we will go with that.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent!   :Small Smile:

----------


## Cavir

> Taric avoids the cloud the remaining beast created, then charges into combat, slashing with both blades this time, since this creature doesn't appear to be undead.


paradox26, couple of issues
1- the beast is surrounded by poisonous fog, how are you avoiding it? Need line of sight for charging too.
2- the area is difficult terrain (IC post #80). Can't charge through difficult terrain unless you have a way to deal with it (Avakuss could use goliath's Mountain Movement plus jump).

----------


## kinem

Also, how did Taric avoid the blast damage? I dont see any Reflex saves rolled. Is he immune to negative energy?

----------


## paradox26

> paradox26, couple of issues
> 1- the beast is surrounded by poisonous fog, how are you avoiding it? Need line of sight for charging too.
> 2- the area is difficult terrain (IC post #80). Can't charge through difficult terrain unless you have a way to deal with it (Avakuss could use goliath's Mountain Movement plus jump).


I missed the poisonous mist. I will have a 50% miss chance then for that. I didn't need to charge, that was just IC description. He has the Pounce ability, so he can get a full attack after a standard move. I didn't add any bonuses from a charge onto the rolls. He just made a standard move action into combat, then full attacked.



> Also, how did Taric avoid the blast damage? I dont see any Reflex saves rolled. Is he immune to negative energy?


He has Evasion as an ability, and his Reflex save is +21, so he couldn't fail it. I will roll here for them, just in case. It has been a while, and I can't recall if a natural 1 would be a failure.

(1d20+21)[*39*] Reflex save 1

(1d20+21)[*28*] Reflex save 2

----------


## kinem

P26: A natural 1 always fails on a saving throw (and natural 20 always succeeds) with a very few rare exceptions.

Pounce generally requires a charge. What is your source of it? In this case however as we will soon see its a bit moot.

What is your Reach? I thought it was 5.

----------


## Archmage1

And so, the time for post(ish) combat activities!  Seeing if the guard has a key to the door we want to open!  Or anything else of interest.

Perpetual options continues to pay dividends, allowing Eilyra to move, and do the full round search, and her necklace is being actually useful!  I was thinking it would only really be useful underwater.   :Small Smile: 

Of course, she could do with a round or two to recharge her sword, and abuse the power of pearls of power(although, in retrospect, I probably should have gotten less L3 pearls, and more L2 pearls, but ah, well.)

----------


## Archmage1

Are we still in rounds?  Or are we more tracking time for spell durations?

----------


## kinem

Due to Ashs possible Confusion, we are still in rounds.

----------


## Archmage1

Then Eilyra's responses'll be delayed until next round.  :)  Hopefully, Ash resists the confusion.  She'd probably be sad if we mind blanked her to cure the confusion.

----------


## Toliudar

Confusion is a compulsion effect, so protection from X would work just fine.  Alternately, her physical attacks are so ineffectual that most of you could just stand there and let her attack you until the confusion wore off, if need be.

----------


## Archmage1

See, while that seems like a perfectly reasonable solution, Protection from Good is Sir Not Appearing In Today's Spell List.   :Small Smile: 

The reasoning was, well... mind blank works quite well, and everyone has deflection and resistance bonuses... and we probably weren't killing good things either.  And with the vest of the archmagi, recalling mind blank is quite doable.  Seriously, that vest is insanely useful.

As for the Door, Eilyra, Avakuss, or Taric can probably provide plan "B" for opening the door.  You know, plan Bash?  But being able to close it again would be nice...

----------


## Toliudar

Fair enough all around.  And I have no doubt of our collective ability to get through the door, once we know that it's not going to blow up or something.

----------


## Archmage1

On another, minor note, if this encounter is completed, did we gain any experience?  
(Notably, Taric is ECL 19, and Eilyra is ECL 20, as compared to Ash and Avakuss's ECL 21)

----------


## kinem

Confusion is a Compulsion but it does not grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, so Protection from Alignment wouldn't block it.

Remember, the Confusion effect in the cave requires a save every round.

Once the party gets through the door, you'll earn XP for an EL 17 encounter, split 5 ways since Center is with you. The monster was CR 16 but with the cave and the bloodhulks thrown in I'll bump it up. That's 570 xp for ECL 19, 400 xp for an ECL 20, 315 xp for ECL 21.

Even if you have enough XP to level up, you can only do during a 'long rest'.

----------


## Cavir

> Once the party gets through the door, you'll earn XP for an EL 17 encounter, split 5 ways since Center is with you. The monster was CR 16 but with the cave and the bloodhulks thrown in I'll bump it up. That's 570 xp for ECL 19, 400 xp for an ECL 20, 315 xp for ECL 21.


Sooo.... we wait until Ash fails a Will, we defeat her with non-lethal means... and get XP for a EL21 encounter!  :Small Cool: 
Rinse and repeat until books are thrown at us....

----------


## paradox26

> P26: A natural 1 always fails on a saving throw (and natural 20 always succeeds) with a very few rare exceptions.
> 
> Pounce generally requires a charge. What is your source of it? In this case however as we will soon see its a bit moot.
> 
> What is your Reach? I thought it was 5.


I couldn't recall offhand exactly what fails on a natural 1. I rolled with my last post and passed both checks easily.

I also feel embarrassed because I got my Pounce mixed up. I forgot that it required a charge to activate. I was sure dualblade had an ability that allowed a full attack on a standard action, but I double checked and it doesn't. So I only got the three attacks, as if it matters at this point.

Yes, my reach is 5'. I figured I would just enter the mist and take whatever damage it inflicted.

----------


## Cavir

> Yes, my reach is 5'. I figured I would just enter the mist and take whatever damage it inflicted.


The damage isn't HP damage, it's CON damage, so your fast healing doesn't help. Kinem's call, but I believe it would still do 1 CON damage to you, reducing your max hp by 19. Granted we have a limited way do deal with that damage.

----------


## paradox26

I know it was Con damage, and the fast healing I assigned was just to add 2 hp back on for the round. I just figured I would take the hit, in a bid to get close enough to the monster to attack it. But that is no longer needed.

I am not sure if it rounds up or down in this case. I am fine with taking a point of Con damage if needed, but I thought rounding is always down. Kinem's call.

----------


## Archmage1

We do have a few options for getting past it that haven't been mentioned as well.

We do have Ash, who has some of the more useful spells, such as divination, which could divine the pass phrase, or we could guess at it(It is probably something related to Tharizdun)

We could also just break it, and wait out the two and a half hours for it to finish exploding.

Or the dispel, although it will be at least DC 26.  Dispel is probably the best option, really.

----------


## kinem

P26: It rounds down to 0.

Toliudar: See Post # 165 above: Protection From Chaos does not block Confusion.

----------


## Toliudar

> P26: It rounds down to 0.
> 
> Toliudar: See Post # 165 above: Protection From Chaos does not block Confusion.


Okay.  Presumably, Ash would know that, and wouldn't have cast the spell.  

I'll just make a minute's worth of  saves now, to speed things along.  She'll use Fate of One to get a reroll on any 1's.
(1d20)[*15*]
(1d20)[*8*]
(1d20)[*4*]
(1d20)[*8*]
(1d20)[*19*]
(1d20)[*11*]
(1d20)[*11*]
(1d20)[*3*]
(1d20)[*17*]
(1d20)[*14*]

Rerolls as needed:
(1d20)[*2*]
(1d20)[*10*]

----------


## paradox26

Noted. Rounded down he didn't take any Con damage. Thanks for the ruling.

----------


## Archmage1

Well... what would you know... on the list of spells Eilyra doesn't know that would be handy... Knock seems fairly prominent at the moment.   :Small Smile: 

(Ok, yes, she does have things like disintegrate, glass strike, and dimension door, which might get us through.)

----------


## Archmage1

Coincidentally, is there a description of  the door somewhere?  I know a symbol of weakness was carved into it, it is a large stone door, and that there's a lock?

Edit:  I was sort of picturing a big, beautifully(Well, maybe horrifically) decorated door, depicting various Tharizdun religious stories and the like.

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## kinem

Oops, good question. There was a description but in a spoiler 🙀

Thats pretty much how it looks 😎

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## Archmage1

Excellent!   :Small Smile:

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## Toliudar

I had kind of assumed that, if there are still winds in the cave (if lower than in the passage), and that there's some kind of noise that's forcing Ash's will saves every round, it's pretty loud in here.  Which is why I didn't think that breaking down the door would be a big deal.  

So, Kinem, what IS the noise level in this cave?

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## Archmage1

I'm not so sure about that:  I bet that the door keeps the wind out of the library, and is probably sound-proofed.  If we render it unable to close, I think we'll make a lot of noise.

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## kinem

Its not roaring on the cave, but loud enough that you cant speak softly and be heard well.

The stone door would indeed block the wind and all but the loudest noise.

Breaking down the door, or even just opening it which would scrape stone on stone, would certainly be heard beyond the door.

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## Archmage1

I have the strange suspicion that absent Avakuss being enlarged(As he currently is), Taric is probably the biggest of us, being a quadruped(6'4, 300).  Avakuss is a mountain of muscle(7'7, 310), whereas Ash clocks in at 5'2, and 150 pounds(probably because of wings), and Eilyra is practically skin and bones at 5'5, with 98 pounds to her, including wings.(She's been through a few iterations, and I'm pretty sure that in one of her earlier ones she had the lightweight trait, which is no longer the case.)

----------


## Toliudar

I too had been looking askance at the "smaller than the others" comment, especially since (I think) Centre shrank himself down to medium size before we went through the portal.  Another foot of height and Ash or Eilyra could probably ride him.  No entendre intended.

----------


## Archmage1

Does the lich have any sort of iconography?  Does it appear to be a follower of Tharzidun, or of someone else?

(1d20+19)[*33*] Spot

Also, a 2nd Symbol of Weakness?  That's just cruel.

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## kinem

Center shrank himself to human form at the end of the discussion at the Black Sail Tavern, but resumed his normal large form after getting to Pandemonium.

The lich does have some kind of symbol on his robe.

*Spoiler: Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) DC 30*
Show

It's from a kingdom called Bavia on an obscure Prime Material Plane.

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+18)[*22*] Does Eilyra have any ideas?

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## kinem

'Fraid not  :Xykon:

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## Archmage1

In retrospect, I probably should have remembered moment of prescience, and used it on the diplomacy roll.  Ah, well..

What spell was the lich readying?  (1d20+38)[*57*] Spellcraft

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## kinem

That's really not something you can tell.

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## kinem

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20+9)[*20*], (1d20+8)[*12*]

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## Archmage1

How large is the Symbol on the wooden soldier construct?

How long would it take to use a combination of rope and a bedroll to conceal it, in a fairly solid way?

Alternatively, if someone happened to cast time stop, could they use an ink vial and sealing wax to cover the symbol in a minimum of time?

Edit:  Combining Posts
...
Ok, Anti-Life shell is problematical for plan time stop and paint.

So, since Symbol is blocked if covered or hidden, would putting a fog cloud over it count as covered or hidden?

----------


## Toliudar

Is Eilyra an outsider?  I had assumed that with the half-fiend thing.  Anti-Life Shell doesn't work against outsiders.

----------


## paradox26

I assumed Taric was the smallest because on the battle map it showed everyone else taking up four squares. And even if everyone else is medium sized, Taric has a collar that makes him Small in size, so he is probably still the smallest in the group.

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## Cavir

Antilife Shell has a 10' radius. The Avatar is size large so it takes up more of that space than normal. Avakuss has a 15' reach with a colossal sized greatsword. Would the sword's reach be enough to hit? If yes I could still see the Shell giving some non-RAW defensive bonus (cover? penalty to hit?).

We've already Dispelled one Symbol. Let the Dispels fly!




> Ok, Anti-Life shell is problematical for plan time stop and paint.


Avakuss has time stop. See above prep step.  :Small Big Grin:   Can't affect others during it though  :Small Annoyed: 

If the Symbol goes off Avakuss has Damp Power. Challenge will be not having used up the swift/immediate action for the round. I've seen DMs with different definitions of when that resets. Getting that clarification (especially since rounds are not being formally laid out, which I'm fine with) would be useful. With Quicken Power and Hustle it becomes more of a factor.

----------


## Archmage1

Toliudar, sadly, half-fiend proved to simply be too much LA to be effective, so Eilyra is using a re-fluff of fey-ri from here mechanically.

Paradox, that does make a big difference!  I'd been picturing Taric as a large centaur-like creature!  Has he been wearing the collar the whole time?
Avakuss and Center are both large, due to magic.

Edit:  On the bright side, Symbol of Weakness does allow a save, which gives us a chance.

----------


## kinem

> How large is the Symbol on the wooden soldier construct?


I don't see an official answer for the spell but I'll say 6 inches across.




> So, since Symbol is blocked if covered or hidden, would putting a fog cloud over it count as covered or hidden?


Fog cloud allows vision within 5', so I'll say no.




> Antilife Shell has a 10' radius. The Avatar is size large so it takes up more of that space than normal. Avakuss has a 15' reach with a colossal sized greatsword. Would the sword's reach be enough to hit? If yes I could still see the Shell giving some non-RAW defensive bonus (cover? penalty to hit?).


I'll allow it but at a -4 penalty to hit. I am much too generous as a DM  :Small Eek:

----------


## Archmage1

So... Should Eilyra throw her vial of ink at the symbol, what are the chances that the resulting splash would cover the symbol in question?(Time to find out, IC, I think.  Hopefully, things work?

Edit:  Also, how high are the ceilings in here?

----------


## Toliudar

Archmage, any chance that Eilyra could share what she's about to do once we're around the corner?  It would allow the rest of us a moment to prep (and potentially use our own time stops  :Small Smile:  ) as well.

----------


## Archmage1

Without them hearing, and realizing what's happening?  Not that I can see, certainly not at this point.  I could OOC, but it should be fairly obvious IC.

Admittedly, I do rather wish that I hadn't rolled a 1, but that should still be enough.  I hope.

----------


## kinem

> So... Should Eilyra throw her vial of ink at the symbol, what are the chances that the resulting splash would cover the symbol in question?(Time to find out, IC, I think.  Hopefully, things work?


Make a ranged attack roll with a -4 improvised weapon penalty vs an effective AC of 30:

10 + 8 size + 10 circumstance penalty + 2 range




> Edit:  Also, how high are the ceilings in here?


10' in the tunnel, 15' in the library.

After the Time Stop, Eilyra will get a standard action surprise round, then everyone rolls for initiative.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  

I'll go ahead and post her two rounds of actions.  The range might be a little shorter than expected.

Incidentally, since time is stopped, does that reduce the difficulty of going past the two statues guarding the entrance?

----------


## kinem

I'd say you can automatically pass them, but it still costs double the movement distance.

----------


## Archmage1

Also, ah...

(1d20+36)[*53*] Know planes:  Quasit, for Knowledge Devotion
(1d20+36)[*48*] Know Religion:  Lich, for Knowledge Devotion
(1d20+36)[*46*] Know Arcana:  Wooden Constructs, for Knowledge Devotion

Edit:  And let the fireworks begin!  Hopefully, the lich is NOT chaotic, and has a terrible will save.  Luckily, Maw of Chaos is not mind affecting, so undead should still be affected.

----------


## Cavir

I was saving my IC post for when I got home (which I am now). Plan was to activate a power without any signs of manifesting during the diplomacy, before Eilyra's casting. Is it ok to include that?




> I'll allow it but at a -4 penalty to hit. I am much too generous as a DM


Fine either way, I just like to bring things up ahead of time.

----------


## kinem

> I was saving my IC post for when I got home (which I am now). Plan was to activate a power without any signs of manifesting during the diplomacy, before Eilyra's casting. Is it ok to include that?


Just for consistency, I think it's best not to at this point.

----------


## Archmage1

On a slight side note, Since the damage and Con damage are parallel, would the quasit suffer the con penalty before making the fort save vs massive damage?

----------


## kinem

I'd say the massive damage save comes first in situations like that.

----------


## Archmage1

Fair enough!  On the bright side, that makes Eilyra's next round a lot simpler to plan.   :Small Smile:   There might be something called a full attack involved.  Maybe.  And a ray of some variety, fired at someone.

The placement of Maw is what I was thinking of.  I was originally planning on getting the lich and the quasit with it, but the remembered that Quasits were chaotic.  Apparently, I didn't edit things well enough.  Fixing now.
(Sadly, the lich and the atavarist were too far apart.)

----------


## Cavir

Init (1d20+2)[*11*]
Init time or do we get a surprise round too?

----------


## kinem

Only Eilyra got the surprise round.

----------


## paradox26

> Toliudar, sadly, half-fiend proved to simply be too much LA to be effective, so Eilyra is using a re-fluff of fey-ri from here mechanically.
> 
> Paradox, that does make a big difference!  I'd been picturing Taric as a large centaur-like creature!  Has he been wearing the collar the whole time?
> Avakuss and Center are both large, due to magic.
> 
> Edit:  On the bright side, Symbol of Weakness does allow a save, which gives us a chance.


I had thought the bariaur was large sized, but I double checked and it is medium, unlike a centaur. And he has had the collar since the start, he only just activated it.

----------


## Archmage1

Ah, what could have been, in another world:  If the lich is opposed to releasing Tharzidun, it could have had quite a bit of information that could have served to counterbalance RoT's information.

But, sadly... Eilyra demonstrated what happens when the wizard tries to talk.   :Small Frown:   Probably should have waited for Ash, but I didn't know that Ash could speak either.

----------


## kinem

Remember to roll for initiative; or I can roll for Taric and the others when I post this evening.

----------


## Cavir

I have no issue for you rolling init for all to save time. It's common.

----------


## Archmage1

I'd agree(And would, even if I hadn't rolled a 1 this time.   :Small Big Grin: ).  DM rolling init can save quite a bit of time, especially as they can then readily "futz" the initiative, to get a players-enemy-players-enemy rotation going, or decide to implement group initiative, and so forth.

That said, I do rather hope Eilyra gets to go before the lich(She should at this point, I think).  Another chance for the lich to fail the save or be dazed would be nice.  Plus, with a little luck, she'll be able to finish off the familiar, and snag a new rod.
What could possibly go wrong?(Ok, beyond the atavarist, the lich, and the familiar all ganging up on her while the constructs at the entrance stall potential support...)

----------


## kinem

Ok, lll roll it. Some folks may prefer to roll their own. Also, what can get a bit tricky is that some might have the ability to spend daily resources to improve initiative, such as Ashs Sudden Insight.

----------


## Archmage1

In that case, I'd probably just roll it, and ask if there are any rules for triggering the sudden insight(Like, say, rolling below a five, and having at least X number of uses left...)
Or in cases where it would be really, really nice to have an initiative count that was a little bit higher than the enemies.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

On another note, since we do know that Eilyra went before the enemies... do you want me to post her first round actions now(ish)

Edit:  Is Ash's CL higher than a 20?  Chain dispel has a max of 25.

----------


## kinem

Toliudar: The wooden soldiers are blocking the entrance to the library. How did you get past them? In Eilyras case she used Time Stop + Tumble training.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash would have flown over their heads.  Presumably the same way Eilyra did.  If they're statues and not yet, then she can just zip between them. Even if they activate in the first round, they'd be flatfooted and not giving AoO's.

If the soldiers beat her 25 initiative and are more active, then I'll risk the attacks of opportunity.

----------


## kinem

Theres not enough room to fly over their heads. The tunnel is 10 tall, the library ceiling is 15 high, and the constructs are Large.

If you want to pass them, youd have to Tumble or use some special means.

----------


## Toliudar

Understood!  I'll post an entirely new action IC.  I doubt I can make the tumble check.

Cavir, I'm assuming that you'll have no particular issues with me teleporting Avarkuss past the guard statues and into the heart of the action?

----------


## Cavir

I'm hoping to teleport to the far side of the avatar. At 15x15 space there are limited options for me to get to that I can also see currently. I can activate Dispel Evil to get rid of the shell or try to dispel it if someone doesn't do it already (which I'd be happy for so I can full attack).
As far as I know only Eilyra can act so I'm confused why others are posting. Kinem said he'd be posting tonight.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra's posted her surprise round action as well, so we're waiting for initiative order.
That said, it is probably a safe bet for Ash to post, as she has rolled the highest initiative of those we know.

Ash:  25
Eilyra:  24
Avatarist: 22
Lich: 11
Avakuss: 11 
Taric:  ???

----------


## Toliudar

Cavir, I'm hoping that Ash can teleport Avarkuss and Centre along with herself - since she's currently sandwiched in between them anyway - to exactly the location you've just described.  So if Ash's action goes off as planned, Avarkuss should be able to full attack either the Avatarist or quasit (assuming he can see the quasit) on his first action, if he can reach (I thought Kinem had ruled that the he COULD reach).

----------


## Archmage1

With any luck, Eilyra's full attack should finish off the quasit.

Assuming a worst case scenario(The lich is a level 21 wizard, based on the Quasit's SR), it should have roughly 252 hp, assuming max HD.  
A familiar should have half that in hp, so 126 at most.  I'm not quite sure what impact, if any, the con damage would have, but...
Eilyra hit it for 86 damage total, so it shouldn't have more than 40 hp remaining.  It shouldn't have an AC over 40(29 is more probable), and does have 5 DR.  Eilyra should hit with at least 3 attacks(Barring nat 1's, and she needs to roll decently well on her 4th attack), and she'd do 3d10+45 damage, plus 10d6(Empowered) from the vampiric touch, plus 20 from the lord of the sky.

Of course, we could be dealing with a lich who is more cheesy, and has Cha to HP, in which case things could get a lot more dicey.

In other news, Eilyra is starting to run a little low on spells.  She at around 50% magic remaining, although she does still have a bunch of pearls of power.  But... a lot of her remaining spells aren't terribly applicable here.  So... expect stabbings, not castings.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Cavir

> Cavir, I'm hoping that Ash can teleport Avarkuss and Centre along with herself - since she's currently sandwiched in between them anyway - to exactly the location you've just described.  So if Ash's action goes off as planned, Avarkuss should be able to full attack either the Avatarist or quasit (assuming he can see the quasit) on his first action, if he can reach (I thought Kinem had ruled that the he COULD reach).


I'm immune to invisibility so the quasit should be visible for me. Not really worried about it though compared to the other threats. I'm huge and Center is large. If you can move us both that's great especially if I am in 15' range of the avatar.

My OOC curiosity- is the lich inhabiting the avatar or are we dealing with two separate casters? 
Strength of My Enemy would still be in effect but is still useless. My Energy Cone is mostly useless here. Hope the Maw doesn't eat the library too.

Bad lich, letting intruders get so close so easily.

Yeah, would have been interesting if we had peaceful talks with the lich.

----------


## Archmage1

Handily, the Maw only likes creatures.  No nasty books for this maw!  Only those foolish enough to stand in it, and not chaotic enough to enjoy it will suffer!

Also, safety tip:  Don't stand in the glowing maw of doom.  It is not good for your health.

On the bright side, only another... 42 rounds of mawing left!

We might still be able to have a peaceful talk with the lich, after we beat them down.
It might surrender.  If not, it is a lich:  Phylacteries are a thing, and we should be able to scry/send to it.
Except, of course, that I failed to scribe sending.  Which is sad, because Eilyra did have two scrolls of sending before her advancement to level 21.

----------


## kinem

> My OOC curiosity- is the lich inhabiting the avatar or are we dealing with two separate casters?


A Wooden Avatarist has SLAs but is not a spellcaster, but could multiclass and become a lich that way. It would not be possible to inhabit the avatar while also acting normally. A Wooden Avatarist cannot command undead.




> Bad lich, letting intruders get so close so easily.


Indeed  :Small Eek:  As for his character class, you may get clues on that soon, if he gets to act. You already know that he didn't have the Foresight + Celerity combo, so he's probably not a wizard or sorcerer  :Small Big Grin: 

Taric's initiative: (1d20+3)[*21*]

Looks like Eilyra gets to act first after Ash acted; then the Wooden Avatarist would be next.

Toliudar: BTW: A SLA can't be counterspelled or used to counterspell, only a spell can.

----------


## Toliudar

> A Wooden Avatarist has SLAs but is not a spellcaster, but could multiclass and become a lich that way.


It may not technically cast spells, but having twenty druid spells as SLA's - including four 9th level, if it's 20th level - seems plenty fearsome to me.  Especially since, if I'm reading the class correctly, the avatarist themself could be anywhere in the universe right now, having sent the statue as proxy. This, combined with the "give me a week and I'll be back" quality of liches, means that these two could be a recurring pain in our infernal asses.

----------


## kinem

It's fearsome enough, but at 20th level, only the last 2 SLAs could be level 9.

I still hope to play one as a PC someday  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Cavir

> A Wooden Avatarist has SLAs but is not a spellcaster, but could multiclass and become a lich that way. It would not be possible to inhabit the avatar while also acting normally. A Wooden Avatarist cannot command undead.


I had the thought maybe the lich was a WA that was inhabiting the avatar. I thought the class said the original body could still talk while inhabiting the avatar, and maybe only bluffing to ready a spell. Overthinking it maybe, but Avakuss probably wouldn't be an expert in the class either.

----------


## paradox26

My schedule is really interfering with the ability to keep up with everyone else. I am about twelve hours off from everyone else.

Anyway, thanks Kinem for rolling my initiative. I intended to do it, then got so caught up in rolling for my attacks that I forgot to roll the first step.

----------


## Archmage1

Well, that looks like Eilyra's first two attacks were crits, so I'll roll here?

(1d20+40)[*50*] Crit
(1d10+20)[*29*] + (1d6)[*1*] Fire
Not sure if the Vampiric Touch gets to crit(I don't think it does by RAW, but...)
(10d6)[*44*] Empowered Optimism?

(1d20+35)[*38*] Crit the 2nd
(1d10+20)[*22*] + (1d6)[*3*] Fire

Well... Assuming a 38 hits, that's 185 damage dealt, plus another 66 if the vampiric touch gets to crit.  Plus 86 in the surprise round.  With a little luck, that should finish it off?

----------


## kinem

That ... might just do in the unfortunate fiend 🙀

This has been a one sided fight so far. Will (1d20+18)[*27*] the Lich change that?

----------


## kinem

Center's Initiative (1d20+4)[*5*]

----------


## Cavir

Mass Drown vs Avakuss, Fort DC 26 negates or drop to 0 hp and fall unconscious
(1d20+28)[*30*]

----------


## Archmage1

Was Eilyra able to use her object interaction to catch and store the rod the Quasit was carrying?
How much of the vampiric touch damage was taken?(Eilyra gains a corresponding amount of temp hp.)
Did Eilyra hit with the dimensional anchor, and, if so, was it effective?

For Mass Drown:
I think Evasive Celerity would trigger, since Eilyra is being specifically targeted(As opposed to something that just hits everything in the area.)  (1d100)[*95*] 50 and below misses?

More critically, as Eilyra can breath water(Heart of Water has her covered), Drown simply doesn't work on her anyway.

For Blood Creepers:
Evasive Celerity definitely triggers: (1d100)[*90*] 50 and below misses
Eilyra does have a Freedom of Movement effect, as she is hasted.(Swiftblade is kinda amazing)
(1d20+18)[*25*] Fortitude save

----------


## kinem

> Was Eilyra able to use her object interaction to catch and store the rod the Quasit was carrying?


Does she have some special ability to help with that, or are you thinking of the rule from 5E? I think you'd have to use a move action to retrieve it.




> How much of the vampiric touch damage was taken?(Eilyra gains a corresponding amount of temp hp.)


51 hp.




> Did Eilyra hit with the dimensional anchor, and, if so, was it effective?


It hit, and SR was not an issue. 




> More critically, as Eilyra can breath water(Heart of Water has her covered), Drown simply doesn't work on her anyway.


If she hadn't made the save and HoW gets dispelled, Drown would kick in.




> Swiftblade is kinda amazing


Overpowered, but at this level, I felt I should allow a bit of that.

----------


## Archmage1

... Right.  Because object interaction isn't a 3.5 thing.  I was indeed thinking of the 5e thing.  Well, things to do once she actually has a move action to spare, unlike this round.

As for drown. Drown is an instantaneous effect, and it explicitly states that creatures that can breathe water are unaffected by the spell, not that they are immune to the drowning effect(Which seems a little funky.)
But, if it is going to be a delayed effect, (1d20+18)[*29*] Fort save vs drown?

For swiftblade, Perpetual options is incredible.  Trading the extra haste attack for an action is quite powerful.  Sure, it costs 3 caster levels to get, but...

Edit:  And that should put us to somewhere between 300 and 350 damage to the lich, depending on the AC and damage resistance values it has.  Benefits of having had five rounds of combat, verses everyone else's 1 round?
Also, if it wasn't clear, when Eilyra re-hasted, she hasted everyone she could see once more.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

re: Drown, though I interpreted it differently, it does say that creatures that can breathe water are unaffected by the spell, so that's a fair point.

Strange that Maw of Chaos is safe to pass through except at one instant per round, but that is what the spell says.

Ash to act.

----------


## Archmage1

It is a touch strange, in both points, really.  I was expecting a "Does damage when you enter" clause, but nope, no such worries with maw, which makes it both less and more useful.

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+18)[*21*] Eilyra's amazing fort save
Welp, that's not ideal.  Ah, well.  I guess a life as a statue is a life well lived?

Also:  Things to do, assuming Eilyra is recoverable:  Find a way to boost her fort saves.  And her will saves.

----------


## kinem

I can see how you could read the wording of Protection From X as stopping a Wooden Avatarist's control of the Avatar, but I know that's not the Rule as Intended for the class. If a PC had taken the class, I wouldn't have let a common low level spell shut it down. I will have to edit the Wooden Avatarist description to make that clear. DMing is a lot of work, but one of the things it offers in exchange is the chance to test out homebrew in play  :Small Big Grin: 

The other wooden constructs are just fighting on; they don't need any fresh orders for that.

----------


## kinem

> [roll0] Eilyra's amazing fort save
> Welp, that's not ideal.  Ah, well.  I guess a life as a statue is a life well lived?
> 
> Also:  Things to do, assuming Eilyra is recoverable:  Find a way to boost her fort saves.  And her will saves.


At least with the cold, you're not about to melt ...

----------


## kinem

Frostfell vs Center's SR 30 (1d20+20)[*23*]; Center's Fort (1d20+19)[*37*] vs DC 25

----------


## Archmage1

True, although I suspect she will be a high priority target for the avatar.

Well, she can fix her will saves if she can take the keen intellect feat, which she doesn't qualify for(Wrong ancestors)

Fort is a bit trickier.  Given a couple of days, and quite a bit of gold, she could pick up Ruin Delver's Fortune, and add her Muleback cords to a Cloak of Charisma.  An immediate action for +6 would help. 36200+2 days is a lot, however.

Or she could add a maneuver ring to her ring of evasion:  Mind over Body, to let her make a conc check instead of a fort save once per encounter.  4500 gold is doable, ish?  I suppose some of the other maneuvers could be pretty handy for her as well, but meeting the requirements could be challenging for useful ones.

----------


## Cavir

If the SLA is cast, I can use Damp Power on it right? Can I augment it to help the others?
With Damp Power + Energy Resistance it could become zero damage for me. 

Is Ash giving me flanking?
Frostfell: SLAs generate AoOs. Do we get one each? Could prevent a lot of issues/damage.

AoO (1d20+25)[*33*]  (+15 BAB, +12 STR, +1 Magic, +1 Haste, +2 AoO, -2 Size, -4 Shell)  +2 more for flanking?
Damage: [roll]6d6+19/roll] Slashing. (+18 STR, +1 Weapon) Specials: Adamantine, Good 

If Frostfell gets through: Fort DC 25 (1d20+28)[*34*]

----------


## Cavir

In case it matters:
Damage: (6d6+19)[*41*]

----------


## kinem

The SLA was cast defensively, with a high enough Concentration skill to succeed at the skill check without rolling. So, there is no AOO.

Cavir: You can indeed use Damp Power to minimize the damage to 20 for those who make the save.

----------


## Archmage1

Well... maybe that'll succeed?  Otherwise, I think reversing the iceification will be a little challenging, since the list of spells that can do it are Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, and Ice to Flesh.  Probably Polymorph Any Object as well, but Eilyra didn't memorize that(Which will be corrected for next time), and is an icicle.

Amusingly, if Eilyra were actually to be restored, she would be better off than otherwise, as damage is only dealt on a successful save.

Also, I am amused by Frosfell's tendency to print better versions of spells at lower levels.
(Flesh to Ice(5) vs Flesh to Stone(6), Finger of death(7) vs Heartfreeze(6)(Ok, this one is a little more debatable, due to the delay.)

----------


## kinem

> Also, I am amused by Frosfell's tendency to print better versions of spells at lower levels.


I think the theory was that if you want a more powerful PC, you should buy another book  :Small Eek:

----------


## Toliudar

> I can see how you could read the wording of Protection From X as stopping a Wooden Avatarist's control of the Avatar, but I know that's not the Rule as Intended for the class. If a PC had taken the class, I wouldn't have let a common low level spell shut it down. I will have to edit the Wooden Avatarist description to make that clear. DMing is a lot of work, but one of the things it offers in exchange is the chance to test out homebrew in play


I'm totally fine with this, especially if we get the same benefit of the doubt for the effects that we attempt.  :Small Amused:

----------


## Toliudar

Ash:

Fort save vs DC 22 Blood Creepers  (1d20+23)[*40*]
Fort save vs DC 25 Frostfell (1d20+23)[*31*]

if she fails vs frostfell, she'll use Fate of One to get a reroll (1d20+23)[*25*]

----------


## Archmage1

How damaged does the Avatarist's body in the room appear to be?

----------


## Cavir

> I've lost track - what has Centre of All been doing?


Center goes after Avakuss before Ash. In the excitement Ash jumped the gun a little.

----------


## Archmage1

To be fair, Eilyra definitely approves of not being frozen.
A big step up in the world.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Toliudar

I didn't think she'd object.  :Small Wink: 

I was just trying to get a sense of whether Centre got frozen, in order to try to help him too, if need be.

----------


## Archmage1

Strangely, limited wish is on Eilyra's wish-list of spells to have.  The 250 xp cost isn't bad, unlike wish's 5k.  Reasons why Miracle is better in 3.5:  No XP cost for spell duplication.
Reasons why Wish is better in 5e:  No XP cost for spell duplication.

----------


## Cavir

> I didn't think she'd object. 
> 
> I was just trying to get a sense of whether Centre got frozen, in order to try to help him too, if need be.


Ah, further back in OOC above:




> Frostfell vs Center's SR 30 (1d20+20)[*23*]; Center's Fort (1d20+19)[*37*] vs DC 25

----------


## kinem

We might have discussed this already, but Limited Wish and Wish are Universal spells. That _sounds like_ it means that they belong to all of the spell schools; but in fact it means that they don't belong to any of the schools. So these spells are not valid choices for an Unseen Seer to add to a class spell list. Which makes a lot more sense, TBH.

I should have checked character sheets more carefully initially. At this point though, I'll leave things as they are. It does mean that I can take the gloves off a bit ...

----------


## kinem

Reflex saves vs Greater Stomp DC 24:
(1d20+6)[*26*] #1, (1d20+6)[*23*] #2, (1d20+6)[*18*] WA

----------


## Archmage1

I think Ash is getting Limited Wish from her Arcane Devotee feat, having chosen the Envy domain(And the Charm domain), but changed it during the character building stage from force, and forgot to edit the feat.

----------


## Archmage1

If you're curious about Eilyra's sheet...
Things that are off:  NE Alignment, Fey-Re(And speaking of, is replacing that class feature that gave +5 dodge with something ok?  Like, say, midnight dodge(As the race is kinda incarnum)?  She also has the Agile weapon enchantment from pathfinder, which lets her add dex to damage for her sword(But not dex*1.5 for two handed).  Finally, she is a transmutation domain wizard, which required the banning of enchantment(Normally, no such ban would exist.)

----------


## kinem

AM1: Best to leave it as is. The last thing this party needs is for Eilyra to get any harder to hit.

----------


## Toliudar

> I think Ash is getting Limited Wish from her Arcane Devotee feat, having chosen the Envy domain(And the Charm domain), but changed it during the character building stage from force, and forgot to edit the feat.


Yes, that's exactly what happened.  I've corrected this on her feat list.

----------


## Archmage1

> AM1: Best to leave it as is. The last thing this party needs is for Eilyra to get any harder to hit.


To be fair, every time she's been hit so far, she has either been immune(Drown, Eneveration), or has died(Frostfell.)  The only miss to date has been the swift cast bloody vines spell.
Hopefully, there is some sort of middle ground?   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Cavir

With the original casting soldier down, is the Anti-life Shell still up? Is so, on the same soldier?

----------


## Archmage1

That seems like an excellent question that would change Eilyra's plans significantly(Well, ok, she'd go after 1, and keep to the left side, rather than the right side.)

----------


## Toliudar

That's an interesting question, determining whether a magical effect follows the mind or the body.  I guess that'd change Ash's next action as well!

----------


## Cavir

> AM1: Best to leave it as is. The last thing this party needs is for Eilyra to get any harder to hit.


I think AM1 was talking about the switch in order to lower AC.




> That's an interesting question, determining whether a magical effect follows the mind or the body.  I guess that'd change Ash's next action as well!


And do spells evaporate if the caster dies?  Would be painful if all your buffs go poof when your buffer buys the farm or something in between (flesh to stone, flesh to ice, etc).

----------


## Archmage1

The feature has already been turned off.  It gave +1 dodge, and an additional +1 per 5 levels.

----------


## kinem

Come to think of it ... not only is the Antilife Shell gone, so is the Avatar itself. Its armor and sword remain.




> And do spells evaporate if the caster dies?  Would be painful if all your buffs go poof when your buffer buys the farm or something in between (flesh to stone, flesh to ice, etc).


No, the death of a caster does not end spells, although the caster may no longer be a valid target (namely a creature) so buffs on the dead vanish.

----------


## Archmage1

I should probably read the types a bit more in detail.  And it would be nice if necromancy effect was actually defined somewhere(Or if they just said necromancy spells...)

Although... it is entertaining that a ray of enfeeblement would work on undead, but not constructs.

----------


## kinem

Even after all these years in the hobby I've learned a bit about the game from this game, especially with the homebrew in play. I suppose the complexity is one reason it's still interesting.

----------


## Cavir

P26, if you are getting low on hp, feel free to go defensive or withdraw. Better to stay alive. With the Avatar and shell down, I can get in there and give them a good smashing too.

Was hoping the prone construct would have spent the time standing up, also granting AoOs.

----------


## paradox26

I really needed to withdraw, since I am down to 35 hit points. I will need a few minutes to fast heal after this fight, to get back to full strength.

----------


## Archmage1

The good news is that we should have a few minutes:  We'll need to wait for the maw to end, so we can loot the lich(~4 minutes), clear snow from the books before ending the frostfell(To prevent damage to them), searching the room/books for useful information, and time to figure things out.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Cavir

With the Maw trick (in and out during a turn) it's easy enough to grab the lich and loot sooner. Avakuss' light load is 2 tons. He might be able to handle it.

Who has a Bag of Holding? Think bigger- we just take the whole library with us. Avakuss has a Handy Haversack.

----------


## Archmage1

As it happens, Eilyra does have a bag of holding, and has been taking advantage of the superior construction of handy haversacks to carry it.  It is a type three, so should hold quite a few books.(It would be a type 4, but having some spare room in the handy haversack for things that can be pulled out, if needed quickly, seemed wise.)

However, she does not have any loot sacks, or the ability to make them, so carrying them past the bag of holding technique might be a challenge.

I am somewhat concerned about the grab the lich plan:  The pile of bones might separate, and be harder to snag than we expect.  Plus we have a lot of other things to do here too.   :Small Smile: 

On another note, do we want to try to contact the lich after it recovers?  If so, we might want to not dispose of all of the lich's things.

And I'm somewhat curious if the lich was another homebrew test.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

This was (theoretically) an ECL 23 encounter.

For XP, I'm just going to say 3000 xp each.

----------


## Archmage1

The multiplier for being lower level(So Eilyra and Taric can catch up in levels at some point), ends up being around a 1.25 multiplier for being 1 level lower, and 1.84 for being two levels lower.  Does it make sense for Eilyra to get 3750 and Taric to get 5535 XP?

And it was a very challenging encounter.  If the lich hadn't failed that save, this probably would have gotten quite dicy.  The avatarist alone took down Eilyra, and almost took down Taric.  Adding in the lich?  
It was also an interesting encounter.  Who doesn't love an epic battle inside a library that neither side really wants to damage?   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

AM1: Thanks.

On a more exact calculation XP would be as follows: level 19 4560, level 20 3200, level 21 2310.

I'm not sure how fair the ECL system is, but we can go with that.

----------


## Archmage1

We are a large group, which doesn't help things much, but Taric and Eilyra should catch up... eventually.  Strangely enough, both Taric and Eilyra need about 10k XP to hit the next level, at which point things should even out a bit?

----------


## Archmage1

Is it still snowing in the room, or has the moisture been drawn out?

Also, would prestidigitation be able to clear the snow and ice(And dust) away so they can be accessed safely?

Assuming that the temperature was Moderate before, after the Frostfell, it is in extreme cold, which does...
A d6 of frost damage, and a DC 15(+1 per one rolled before) fort taking 1d4 nonlethal on failure per ten minutes.
Those wearing metal armor(Taric) also get to enjoy the effects of a chill metal spell.(Which is basically escalating damage, reaching 2d4 points of frost damage per round after 1 round.)  It takes cold resist 5 or more to lolnope the temperature.

----------


## kinem

Thanks. It's still snowing a bit as air circulates. Taric can retreat up the tunnel a bit to get out of the cold.

Prestidigitation would help ...

----------


## Archmage1

Incidentally, on a list of things that Eilyra is prepared for...

Having slaughtered the guards of an ancient library, and having an opportunity to read all the books is, perhaps surprisingly, something she is set for.
Scholar's touch, plus a natural int of 30 should come in handy. :)

And, of course, time for other people to get involved.

----------


## Cavir

Taric's sheet lists Cold Resistance 15. Avakuss has resistance 30/all. Avakuss can't read as fast but with Autohypnosis remembering it all isn't an issue. The issue is the alternate languages. Just read them all to him in Common like a good bed time story :)

----------


## Archmage1

And Ash is a lesser aasimar, which comes with a nifty Cold resist 5.  That leaves Center of All as the only one currently vulnerable to cold.  And he does have fast healing 5, and a decent fort save.   :Small Smile:

----------


## paradox26

That's right, Taric has Cold Resistance 15 from the Shadow Creature template.

----------


## Archmage1

How goes the snow removal/book protection process?  Or does the snow vanish with the dispelling?

----------


## Archmage1

Also... it would be nice if we were to find that hole in the back corner IC.   :Small Smile:   Present on the map, but...

Hopefully, Ash will find it?  And we'll save the books?  And have the time to read what the lich was after?  And snag all the loot?  Also, get something delicious for breakfast.

----------


## Toliudar

Mmm.  Pandemonium croissants.  I hear they bake them in the shape of mobius strips.

----------


## Archmage1

On a minor side note, you mentioned that the language of the books seemed to be ancient to Eilyra.  She got most of her education some five thousand years ago.  Is it ancient to her from that perspective?

----------


## Cavir

> None of the books appear magical.


What about the rest of the room? Items on the bodies of the lich and soldiers?

----------


## kinem

> On a minor side note, you mentioned that the language of the books seemed to be ancient to Eilyra.  She got most of her education some five thousand years ago.  Is it ancient to her from that perspective?


The books vary. Some of them are more modern; some are similar to what she learned back then; and some seem to predate even that.

----------


## Archmage1

:Small Smile:   That is a lot of books.  Scholar's touch should be handy, but Eilyra can only manage... 22 books per casting.  With metamagic, and burning some higher level slots, she could manage to read... 418 books at the moment, assuming she burned all her 1st and 2nd level slots.

As for identification... what's your opinion on combining magical items?(AKA adding the cloak of charisma to Eilyra's current muleback cords?)

I think Eilyra already rolled the knowledge, but maybe with more time to observe? (1d20+18)[*30*] Nobility?

Do we want to attempt to retain the items, in hopes of courting the lich at a later date?  Or we could just sell/split them.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) DC 30*
Show

It's from a kingdom called Bavia on an obscure Prime Material Plane.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash Knowledge (Nobility): (1d20+13)[*29*]

Edit: So close!

----------


## Cavir

Library Loot

*ITEM*
*VALUE*
*WHO*

Vest of resistance +5
25k


Cloak of charisma +6
36k
Eilyra

chain shirt +5
25k


ring of protection +5
50k
Ash

+5 amulet of natural armor
50k
Taric

Deadwalker's Ring
4k
Ash?

Scout's Headband
3.2k
Taric?

Rod of Wonder
12k


10x 100gp black sapphires
1k


50gp onyx
50gp


powdered diamond and opal
5k


3x large MW greatswords
1.2k


3x large full plate armor, 100lbs each
9k


Books
???


*TOTAL*
221,450gp
/6 = 36908.33



The prices are base, not selling price.
Since we haven't had this discussion yet and it's loot time... I'm not stingy about loot. The best person for an item should get it and try to get it somewhat balanced. If unbalanced then make up for it next time. Not worried about accounting down to the copper piece.

Who is interested in what? There's nothing of use for Avakuss beyond selling stuff for gold. 

Between our haversacks, bag of holding, saddlebag of holding, Avakuss/Taric great strength, and Hasted speed, getting everything back should be doable, even if we have to make two trips since the way is cleared short of flying rocks in the main tunnel. 

Lich... we did the sneak attack and ruined his plans. Likely he'll do the same to us given the chance. He might be able to scry for his items we take? He is obviously highly interested in the books. With the items we just took that's a big blow for his defenses when he comes back.

Imagine one of the books being his phylactery and enchanted to not show as special. A few days later he shows up wherever the books were taken  :Small Eek: 

EDIT: Deadwalker Ring price fixed
EDIT2: Added Rod of Wonder

----------


## kinem

Deadwalker's Ring = 4000 gp

----------


## Toliudar

At this level, it's going to be relatively rare that found loot slots smoothly into one of our characters.  Ash could benefit from the ring of protection, but I'm also fine with selling everything when we're back in Sigil.

----------


## Archmage1

What was the rod the Quasit was using?

Eilyra is interested in the cloak, if she can do some enchanting with it(Or, more accurately, manage to combine it with her existing cloak)

Does Eilyra know anything about Bavia?

----------


## paradox26

Taric could really do with the Amulet of Natural Armour. I will grab that. The rest doesn't really bother him so much.

----------


## Archmage1

Armor is nice. :) Elyria wants the cloak to make ruin delivers fortune more useful. And to be less bad at talking.

----------


## Cavir

> At this level, it's going to be relatively rare that found loot slots smoothly into one of our characters.





> Eilyra is interested in the cloak, if she can do some enchanting with it (Or, more accurately, manage to combine it with her existing cloak)


Agreed, most of our slots are already taken. Would be nice if there was a way to merge objects without taking months. Selling then using the gold to improve what we have won't work without major downtime at 1k/day. Otherwise most loot seems to be useful just for consumables (including pulling people back from the Dead Book). Or.... find a plane where time moves differently and send our crafting mage there?

I'm updating the loot chart with requests. The Scout's Headband could be useful for Taric too (marking this as a 4th claimed item unless rejected). Keep the Deadwalker's Ring for tracking (5th item to not be sold, kept by Ash)? What does Center want? 

Current rough numbers: The remaining items (not counting books since value unknown) sell for ~35k. Split that among three shares (Avakuss, Rule, Center) that's ~11.7k gold each. If Rule and Center pick items we can easily adjust.

If anyone else wants to do something different about loot please speak up. I'm totally flexible about it but have seen too many games bogged down by indecision / lack of response. To help keep the game going I try to move loot splitting forward if no one else steps up.

----------


## Toliudar

If we're not able to locate and deal with the lich before it reforms, it may be useful to sell off all the gear, to keep him from being able to track us using his own stuff.

----------


## Archmage1

Considering the gloom, the lich may be good alertness training. 

Why keep the ring?  We have bones.

----------


## kinem

> What was the rod the Quasit was using?
> 
> Does Eilyra know anything about Bavia?


Oops. Its a Rod of Wonder. I was hoping hed get to use it.

All that Eilyra knows about Bavia is that its a mostly human nation on the Prime but not on any of the better known Primes such as Toril or Oerth.

----------


## Archmage1

And now I feel sort of sad for the poor, executed quasit.

After working long and hard for it's master, it managed to convince the master to get it a toy, a rod of wonder.  And now, finally, it had the chance to use it!  What delightful chaos could result?  What fun!  And then, maybe master would love it, and give it more things!
It was the perfect plan.

----------


## Toliudar

Once you start naming the quasits, there's no end to the trouble.

Just ask the one that we eviscerated.

Reginald.



Poor Reggie.

----------


## Cavir

Added Rod of Wonder to loot list.




> On the constructs: Large Mwk greatsword (x3), Large full plate armor (x3).
> These are nonmagical, except that the armor the vanished construct had been wearing still has the Symbol of Weakness under the ink. Perhaps the ink could be cleaned off in a way that wouldn't ruin the symbol.


Oh yeah, what are we going to do about the Symbol? Get rid of it? Carry full plate around to set up as a trap? Or did Center's Dispel Magic already get rid of it?




> Once you start naming the quasits, there's no end to the trouble.
> Just ask the one that we eviscerated.
> Reginald.
> Poor Reggie.


What's the Avartarist's name?
I nominate Woody.

----------


## Toliudar

> What's the Avartarist's name?
> I nominate Woody.


I second this motion.

----------


## Archmage1

We should probably dispel it.  The problem with carrying it around for use as a trap is that, well... we don't have the triggering control.  It didn't go off when we entered the room, so it is probably manually triggered, which, well...
Yeah.

We should also be standing a long way away from ti when we do.

Woody the Avatarist works?

----------


## Toliudar

Or we could just leave the symbol here.

----------


## Archmage1

Armor is expensive.
The real concern is the ink running off.  Honestly, that was a major reason Eilyra hammered the lich:  Prestidigitation would have been a problem.

----------


## Archmage1

Does it seem like the gate in the Prime happens to be in or around Bavia?  And does Eilyra know anything about Quilo?

(1d20+36)[*53*] Know:  Religion.
Not sure what, if anything, to roll for Bavia.

How many books is she reading to get that information?

----------


## kinem

On Bavia it's hard to tell, as most likely, Bavia was not a nation several thousand years ago.

On Quilo, you only recall that he was a very ancient god, evil and killed by other gods; one of the first known dead gods. Most clerics would not have heard of him at all, even 5000 years ago. As such, probably no one objected when his corpse was taken over.

The information itself is only in a few books, but I assume that you read the maximum number your spells allow.

----------


## Archmage1

In other news...

Pending question:  Can we potentially merge(And unmerge) magical items in a reasonably timely fashion?

How do we want to handle loot wealth distribution?  Historically, I've based things on sale prices, and people can just buy items(At half cost) from the pool, if desired.  "Debt" is simply recorded, and paid back later, from future loot.(So, say, if we had reward pool of 18k each, and someone wanted a 25k item(Cost halved), no problem, they'd just have a "debt" to the party of 7k, to be paid back.  This does reduce the gold people get, but...

----------


## kinem

> Pending question:  Can we potentially merge(And unmerge) magical items in a reasonably timely fashion?


I don't think there's a way to normally do so. However, I'd allow it as a non-XP-costing use of Miracle.

----------


## Cavir

> How do we want to handle loot wealth distribution?  Historically, I've based things on sale prices, and people can just buy items(At half cost) from the pool, if desired.  "Debt" is simply recorded, and paid back later, from future loot.(So, say, if we had reward pool of 18k each, and someone wanted a 25k item(Cost halved), no problem, they'd just have a "debt" to the party of 7k, to be paid back.  This does reduce the gold people get, but...


Works for me. Any other suggestions or should we go with that? Adjusting the costs in the table and reposting here. Please speak up if you are taking any items. 

*Spoiler: Library Loot*
Show


Library Loot

*ITEM*
*SELL VALUE*
*WHO*

Vest of resistance +5
12.5k


Cloak of charisma +6
18k
Eilyra?

chain shirt +5
12.5k


ring of protection +5
25k
Ash?

+5 amulet of natural armor
25k
Taric?

Deadwalker's Ring
2k
Ash?

Scout's Headband
1.6k
Taric?

Rod of Wonder
6k


10x 100gp black sapphires
1k


50gp onyx
50gp


powdered diamond and opal
5k


3x large MW greatswords
.6k


3x large full plate armor, 100lbs each
4.5k


Books
???


*TOTAL*
113,750gp
/6 = 18,958.3








> Pending question:  Can we potentially merge(And unmerge) magical items in a reasonably timely fashion?





> I don't think there's a way to normally do so. However, I'd allow it as a non-XP-costing use of Miracle.


Awesome!

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra would still be interested in the Cloak, especially if Ash has spare Miracles.   :Small Smile: 

Sadly, it would take at least two levels for Eilyra to be able to cast Miracle in addition to Wish, and those levels really wouldn't fit her character(Wyrm Wizard)

----------


## Toliudar

I've currently got one Miracle, I believe, so I can do the cloak when we get back to Sigil.  Unless Eilyra has access to greater teleport, we may need to save the next one to help us get around Bavia.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra does, in fact, have access to greater teleport(And plane shift), but she doesn't have them prepared, because she wasn't prepared for an epic adventure in the morning.  She had spells prepared for more or less wandering around Sigil.   :Small Smile: 



*Spoiler: Eilyra's current spells known:*
Show


1st(13)
Expeditious Retreat(Trans)(Free)(m/L)
Nerveskitter(Trans)
Mage Armor(Conj)(H/L)
Shield(Abj)(m/L)
Disguise Self(Illu)(10m/L)
True Strike(Div)(1r or use)
Protection from Good(Abj)(m/L)
Unseen Servant(Conj)(H/L)
Benign Transposition(Conj)
Silent Image(Illu)(r/L)
Ray of Enfeeblement(Necro)(m/L)
Enlarge Person(Trans)(m/L)
Comprehend Languages(Div)(10m/L)
Scholar's Touch(Div)(r/L)
2nd(6):
Levitate(Trans)(Free)(m/L)
Wraithstrike(Trans)
Bladeweave(Ill)(When attacking, can make a touch to daze)(r/L)(Will save)
Heart of Air(Trans)(H/L)
Web(Conj)(10m/L)
Glitterdust(Conj)(r/L)
See Invisibility(Div)(10m/L)
Detect Thoughts(Div)(m/L)
Combust(Evo)
Ghoul Touch(Necro)(1d6+2)(fort)
Resist Energy(Abj)(10m/L)
3rd(6):
Haste(Trans)(Free)(r/L)
Stinking Cloud(Conj)(r/L)
Vampiric Touch(Necro)
Dragonskin(Trans)(10m/L
Displacement(Illu)(r/L)
Magic Circle against Evil(Abj)(10m/L)
Arcane Sight(Div)(m/L)
Unluck(Div)(r/L)(will save)
Heart of Water(Trans)(H/L)
Greater Magic Weapon(Trans)(H/L)
4th(6):
Dimension Door(Trans)(Free)
Greater Mirror Image(Illu)(r/L)
Assay Spell Resistance(Div)(r/L)
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere(Evo)(m/L)
Enervation(Necro)
Greater Invisibility(Illu)(r/L)
Heart of Earth(Trans)(Temp hp, expend for stoneskin)(H/L)
Scrying(Div)
Ariel Alacrity(Trans)(+30 fly, +Maneuver, +1 dodge/Reflex)(m/L)
Attune Form(Trans)(Avoid Planar Effects)(24H)
Dimensional Anchor(Abj)(Nope.  No teleporting)(m/L)
5th(0)
Baleful Polymorph(Trans)(Free)(perm)
Acid Sheath(Conj)(enemy takes 30 acid damage on hit)(r/L)
Teleport(Conj)
Planar Binding(Lesser)(Conj)
Wall of Stone(Conj)
Night's Caress(Necro, evil)(15d6, fort for 1d6+2 con, touch)
Lord of the Sky(Trans)(+10 fly, +maneuver, swift for 20 ele dam)(m/L)
Prying Eyes(Divination)(H/L, or use)
Heart of Fire(Trans)(+10 speed(Enhance), 20/- fire resist, fire shield expend)(H/L)
6th(0)
Disintegrate(Trans)(Free)
Contingency(Evo)(D/L)
Greater Dispel Magic(Abj)
Planar Binding(Conj)
Freezing Fog(Conj)(Solid fog, with grease)(m/L)
Brilliant Blade(Trans)(Make brilliant weapon)(m/L)
Eyes of the Oracle(Div)(+2 AC and reflex, expend for a readied action)(r/L, or use)
Eye of Stone(Div)(r/L)
7th(0)
Reverse Gravity(Trans)(Free)(r/L)
Elemental Body(Trans)(H/L)
Glass Strike(Trans)(Fort or be a glass statue)(H/L)
Waves of Exhaustion(Necro)(Be exhaust.  No save)
Avasculate(Necro, evil)(1/2 hp damage, fort or stun.)
Greater Teleport(Conj)
Plane Shift(Conj)
Stun Ray(Conj)(1d4+1, or 1 on fort)
Magnificent Mansion(Conj)(Home away from home)(2H/L)
Ironguard(Abj)(Immunity to metal.  Can walk through)(r/L)
Banishment(Abj)
Energy Absorption(Abj)(resist 10- all elements, immediate action to end, and gain 150% immunity against 1 energy attack)(H/L, or use)1
Energy Immunity(100% immunity to a damage type)(Abj)(24H)
8th(0)
Iron Body(FREE)(+1CL)(Be a golem)(m/L)
Mind Blank(Abj)(24H)
Greater Planar Binding(Conj)
Avascular Mass(Necro, evil)(Like Avasculate + Web)
Blackfire(Necro, evil)(Spreading fire of CON damage)(r/L)
Polymorph Any Object (Transmutation)(Variable Duration))
Dimensional Lock(Abj)(Area of Nope, no teleporting)(D/L)
Discern Location(Div)(Find the thing)
Moment of Prescience(Div)(Boost one roll)(H/L, or use)
Greater Prying Eyes(Div)(H/L, or use)
9th(0)
Shapechange(Free)(Transmutation)(r/L)
Time Stop(Transmutation)(1d4+1)
Maw of Chaos(Amazing Blast)(Abjuration)(Chaotic)(Chaotic things immune)(r/L)
Wish(Universal)

----------


## Archmage1

On that note, is my understanding of the functioning of the gate correct?  You need to have the gate key to activate the portal, but once activated, it remains active, both ways, for a short period of time?

----------


## Toliudar

Here are my preliminary thoughts for tomorrow, if Rule of Three doesn't have something new to report.  Thoughts?  I mention because this will of course affect my spell selections in the AM.

Shopping as needed in Sigil.Planar Gate to Pandemonium.Plane shift to BaviaScry the Avatarist or otherwise determine their location.Buffing, then Teleport to the Avatarist.  Conversation that is as convivial as we are able.  Killing if necessary.Try to locate the lich's phylactery, perhaps also in Bavia.  Teleport there and acquire it.Sight-seeing in Bavia (I hear that the harvest festivals are lovely!)If we haven't gotten a better lead, we rest as needed, then leap on to one of the possible locations that Eilyra found.

On a related note, Kinem: where is a lich while it's reforming?  Is he/she/they in the phylactery?

----------


## Archmage1

That may work, although Eilyra may see about putting a bit more of a delay there, so she has time to scribe Sending, or Ruin Delver's Fortune before we go.

The trick might be getting a tuning fork for Bavia.  I imagine that the lich wasn't carrying one?

----------


## Toliudar

I believe that Rule of Three's contribution to this enterprise, in exchange for a full share, was to use his contacts.  Finding a tuning fork for Bavia may be an excellent use of his talents.

Wait.  Bavia's on the material plane.  Wouldn't we just need a fork for the prime material?

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, it is on A prime material, not necessarily on Toril.

Pending Kinem's clarification on portal workings, Eilyra will take the gate key.

I currently have two plans for scouting the gate, and how the gate operates will affect that.
If using a key opens the gate both ways for a short period of time, it seems like a perfect moment for an eye.

If you need to use a key to open the gate each way, improved invisibility and haste should give Eilyra a solid chance of lasting long enough against whatever ambush(If any) is present to return.

----------


## kinem

> On that note, is my understanding of the functioning of the gate correct?  You need to have the gate key to activate the portal, but once activated, it remains active, both ways, for a short period of time?


This portal is open whenever a portal key is within 10' of it on either side.




> On a related note, Kinem: where is a lich while it's reforming?  Is he/she/they in the phylactery?


OOTS aside, a lich isn't anywhere during that time. Until it reappears, the lich is dead.




> Bavia's on the material plane.  Wouldn't we just need a fork for the prime material?


There are many different material planes; each one would require its own fork.




> The trick might be getting a tuning fork for Bavia.  I imagine that the lich wasn't carrying one?


Indeed not. He was carrying a key to the portal to Sigil. Draw your own conclusions about that.

----------


## paradox26

I will take the Scout's Headband as suggested, though it isn't really of huge use to Taric. As for accounting for treasure, I am not fussed as to how everyone wants to do it. I don't care whether we want to buy out our shares and keep close track, or just have whoever is suited to things take them.

----------


## Archmage1

I can track that.

Assuming we get the sale prices Cavir has projected, and that no one changes their minds as far as what items they would like

Center
Rule of Three
Eilyra:  Takes the Cloak of Charisma
Taric: Takes the Scouts headband, and the Amulet of Natural Armor(Owes 7641.7 gold)
Ash:  Takes Ring of Protection(Owes 6041.7)
Avakuss: Takes only memories.

As they aren't taking anything...
Center, Rule of Three, and Avakuss split the gold value, and receive 14716.67 gold each.
Eilyra is owed 958.3
Center, Rule, and Avakuss are each owed 4241.63 gold

Gold repayment to be taken from future rewards, or just paid, if you have the gold and the desire now.

----------


## Toliudar

That looks great to me.  Ash does not want the deadwalker's ring.  I can pay in diamonds now, if desired.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  Editing to reflect selling the ring. :)

I figure we'll wait until the actual sale has to manage the repayments.

----------


## Toliudar

Knowledge Local for Ash to think of a safe and reliable inn or rooming house in the area:  (1d20+23)[*29*]

----------


## Archmage1

This would be why Eilyra has Magnificent Mansion.    Why stay in some run down, miserable little place, when you can have your own palace?

And I think it should work in Sigil.  Although, if I am wrong, that would be sad.(And it may not.  It isn't technically entering or leaving Sigil, but it sort of is, since it is creating an extradimensional mansion.)

----------


## Toliudar

I'm all for that.  Are the rest of us are invited?  Or does Eilyra like her space?  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

I am still debating that.   :Small Big Grin:   Ash, at least, will get an invite(Benefit of certain life saving castings of limited wish)

And we should probably pass things over to RoT, for sale, in the interest of saving time.

And hopefully, if Eilyra goes to her usual source of spells, she might not need to spend the day translating the writings, because she is already familiar with the style?  Also, no sleeping, since it is written, quite literally, as 24 hours to scribe a spell. Not 8 hours, or anything like that.  Plus the 8 hours to translate the writings...

----------


## Toliudar

> And we should probably pass things over to RoT, for sale, in the interest of saving time.


Yeah, I just need a bit of privacy to accomplish that.  I don't feel like opening the front door to Ash's house in the middle of the bar.

----------


## Archmage1

Could use the skeletal butler as a distraction?

Disco Skeleton!   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Toliudar

Or I could go into your Magnificent Mansion, and see if we can create a spacial paradox.

----------


## Archmage1

Or, I suppose, the third option, and get a meeting room at the Black Sail.

That said, IC, are we ready to depart?  We could, I suppose, actually try creating a cover story, but... meh.

----------


## kinem

> Knowledge Local for Ash to think of a safe and reliable inn or rooming house in the area:  [roll0]


In the Lower Ward, the Black Sail is indeed the best bet for that. That inn's reputation for quality improved markedly when Joel took it over.

----------


## Cavir

Sorry, out of town til tomorrow.

----------


## Archmage1

What time is it, IC, currently? 2 AM ish?

----------


## kinem

Sounds about right.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent!
If the spell works, I'll provide rather a lot more description.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

Extra dimensional spaces work within Sigil. Teleportation works in the city only if from one point in Sigil to another.

Plane Shift, the Gate spell, and Summoning/Calling dont work within or to/from Sigil.

----------


## Archmage1

Long story short, it is a very fancy house.

And people can follow, or not... it is their choice.   :Small Smile: 

Also, I probably should have spent quite a lot more time thinking about the description.

----------


## kinem

(1d100)[*96*]
(1d100)[*40*]
(1d100)[*32*]

The night passes without incident, if you want to cut to morning.

----------


## Archmage1

Well, depending on what, if anything, Taric and Avakuss do?  Sure

We do need to decide, well... how we want to proceed?  Get Sending, and try communicating, or go for it.  By a strict reading of RAW, it takes a day(8 hours) of continuous study, before a check can be made.  Once that is done, they can then spend 24 hours to scribe the spell into the book.

So, 32 hours of work, minimum, by RAW to scribe a new spell.  On the bright side, this is Sigil, so maybe someone has some time dilation shenanigans going?  Or kinem might be willing to say that these rules are nutty, and maybe something else should make sense?

----------


## Toliudar

Archmage, I apologize if you've covered this, but who is Eilyra trying to reach with Sending? The avatarist and lich certainly didn't seem all that chatty last time, and I can't imagine that murdering them is going to make them more likely to converse.  If it's just one casting we're going for, Ash can always use miracles.

It seems at least possible that there's another portal back in Pandemonium, and that's the portal that the lich and team used. My suggestion is that we meet with Rule, then go back and check to see if there's a portal that leads us somewhere useful.

----------


## Cavir

P26- my IC post 3 hours before yours had Avakuss taking the armor. If Taric is willing too then they can share the load. Weight wise it isn't an issue. With the IRL time differences, let's assume they work together to do it.

Avakuss would agree with the idea of going back to the library to check for another portal. Mind blank on all would be safer since the way is probably still clear. The threat would be the tunnel wind. Another option for the lich to get through Sigil with large undead could have been through his own enveloping pit (which would get the toy soldiers there too) that we didn't find. Perhaps we search the cavern and library more thoroughly this time.




> By a strict reading of RAW, it takes a day(8 hours) of continuous study, before a check can be made. Once that is done, they can then spend 24 hours to scribe the spell into the book.
> So, 32 hours of work, minimum, by RAW to scribe a new spell. On the bright side, this is Sigil, so maybe someone has some time dilation shenanigans going? Or kinem might be willing to say that these rules are nutty, and maybe something else should make sense?


From here:



> A read magic spell automatically deciphers a magical writing without a skill check.


Even if you don't have the spell (?!) buying some scrolls/wand of it would save immense amounts of time.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra was indeed going to be trying to contact the Lich and the Avatarist, to get information, and to suggest a potential alliance.
After all, we have the books they need, and have ready access to neutral locations.   :Small Smile: 


Deciphering the spell is a full round action, which I didn't include, because, well, it is easy..

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizards spellbook. No matter what the spells source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spells level).

 Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook.
Time

The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spells level.

----------


## Cavir

We're quoting the same page. I'm just talking about cutting out the 8 hours part.

----------


## Archmage1

The eight hours part isn't the deciphering.

The "Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spells level)"  is the source of the 8 hours(Spellcraft, presumably, has this as the "Learn a spell" section.).  Then the 24 is the writing(Which seems rather high compared to, well, every other crafting sample)

Edit:  On the bright side, at least I get to memorize different spells this time?  And reduce the duration of the longer duration spells appropriately.

----------


## kinem

Well go with RAW on the scribing.

----------


## Archmage1

Does breaking up the time work?  Or does it need to be continuous?

----------


## kinem

The scribing doesnt have to follow immediately after the studying.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok, but the scribing does need to be a continuous 24 hours, then?  No breaking it up over three days, or anything like that?

----------


## kinem

RAW is unclear. Id say it can be done in 8 hour increments.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent!  That makes things a lot more workable, in the absence of down time.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

> Eilyra was indeed going to be trying to contact the Lich and the Avatarist, to get information, and to suggest a potential alliance.
> After all, we have the books they need, and have ready access to neutral locations.


It could be a week or more before there's a lich TO contact.  My preference would be to spend some of that time finding the phylactery, so that we have a much greater degree of control over our interactions with the lich.  Similarly, I'd much rather go to where the Avatarist is 'in the flesh', literally, so as to have a much greater degree of control over the interaction.  Is that acceptable to you?

----------


## Archmage1

I think that'll end up being something of an IC discussion.  Visiting the Avatarist could well work out, or could be seen as being rather aggressive.  Something that could go either way.   :Small Smile:  
If we want to negotiate, it would probably go better if we didn't follow through in a long term sense(As otherwise, we're offering a lot of reasons for the duo to betray us at their first opportunity).
On the other hand, if all we care about is short term, then the follow through makes sense.  And, honestly, it could work out longish term as well, depending on a lot of things we don't know.

I would like to have the time to scribe sending and ruin delver's fortune before we continue on, but 3 days of delay is probably too much delay, unless we are given a way to cheese that.  I should have put a lot more thought into support spells when building Eilyra's initial spell list than I did, because she could have easily added quite a lot more spells.(At least, the low level ones)

Ooh... Did Ash miracle the cloak/cords together before resting?

----------


## Archmage1

(For clarification:  Sending, because communication is nifty.  Ruin Delvers' Fortune plus Cloak so Eilyra doesn't become an Ice Statue.  Again.)

----------


## Toliudar

> I think that'll end up being something of an IC discussion.  Visiting the Avatarist could well work out, or could be seen as being rather aggressive.  Something that could go either way.   
> If we want to negotiate, it would probably go better if we didn't follow through in a long term sense(As otherwise, we're offering a lot of reasons for the duo to betray us at their first opportunity).
> On the other hand, if all we care about is short term, then the follow through makes sense.  And, honestly, it could work out longish term as well, depending on a lot of things we don't know.
> 
> I would like to have the time to scribe sending and ruin delver's fortune before we continue on, but 3 days of delay is probably too much delay, unless we are given a way to cheese that.  I should have put a lot more thought into support spells when building Eilyra's initial spell list than I did, because she could have easily added quite a lot more spells.(At least, the low level ones)
> 
> Ooh... Did Ash miracle the cloak/cords together before resting?


Given that the lich rejected attempts to converse when we first met, and the avatarist didn't speak at all, I don't have a lot of faith that they'll be any more willing to chat now that we've killed them and taken their stuff. If we're going to converse with them, I'd much rather do so from a place of strength.  But in the meantime, if we really want to try sending, a scroll is only 700gp.

Ash only had one miracle memorized yesterday. I'm happy to use one in the morning to merge your gear, but would like to hold onto a second one for what I hope are obvious reasons.

----------


## Archmage1

This does seem fair.   :Small Smile: 

And I feel strangely sad at using a scroll to cast a spell we're lacking in access to... because I didn't bother to learn it.

----------


## paradox26

> P26- my IC post 3 hours before yours had Avakuss taking the armor. If Taric is willing too then they can share the load. Weight wise it isn't an issue. With the IRL time differences, let's assume they work together to do it.


Sorry about that. I read the daily digest email of posts, then when I went to post didn't realise that there had been a new post made in the meantime. So I totally missed your post.

I will have Taric accompany you. Just in case there is an attack while you carry the stuff.

----------


## Archmage1

So... broad plans:

Step 1:  figure out a plan.

Regardless, we have a couple of hours until the meeting with Rule, and potentially getting information.  This will likely weigh heavily into our plans.  But, we do have a couple of hours, so some basic shopping seems reasonable.
Acquire Tuning Forks.  Get more Ink.  Also, a non-magical cloak, because that would have been quite handy earlier.

Step 2:  Prepare to execute the plan.
This might be scry n die strategies against the avatarist.  It might be ignoring them, and going after the potential ritual locations, it might be none of the above.  Regardless, preparation will be vital.
Depending on time, Eilyra may wish to acquire a source of Ruin Delver's Fortune, and Sending.  If we have time, copying from a book(400 and 450 gold cost) is a lot cheaper than buying a scroll(700 and 1125 gold cost).  But, also, the 32 hours each is painful either way.

Step 3:  Execute the plan.

----------


## Archmage1

Center
Rule of Three
Eilyra: Takes the Cloak of Charisma
Taric: Takes the Scouts headband, and the Amulet of Natural Armor(Owes 7641.7 gold)
Ash: Takes Ring of Protection(Owes 6041.7)
Avakuss: Takes only memories.

As they aren't taking anything...
Center, Rule of Three, and Avakuss split the gold value, and receive 14716.67 gold each.
Eilyra is owed 958.3
Center, Rule, and Avakuss are each owed 4241.63 gold

Gold repayment to be taken from future rewards, or just paid, if you have the gold and the desire now. 
I do believe Ash plans on instantly repaying the owed gold

I believe the Large MW greatswords, and the large full plate were taken.
That would leave the Vest of resistance, the chain shirt, the deadwalkers ring, the rod of wonder, and the gems to be given to Rule later.

----------


## Toliudar

My intent was to load up all of the unclaimed items to send off to Rule - it was just easiest to mention the armour as the largest things.

----------


## Cavir

Yeah, I put all the non large items in my sack for easier carrying, so anything for Rule to sell was delivered.

----------


## paradox26

I will make my overpayment back right now. I have seven (eight, but will have one left) 1000gp diamonds, and the rest I have enough coins to cover the extra. Adjusting my sheet to reflect that now, and you can add the money I owed onto the pool to pay the others back.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.

With both Taric and Ash doing repayments(Taric of 7641.7, and Ash of 6041.7)...

Center, Rule of Three, and Avakuss each receive 18958.3 gold
Eilyra gets 958.3 gold.

At least, once RoT returns with the sale goods.

----------


## Archmage1

In other news, in the absence of objections, I'll post things about the conference room, and outline plan options in a few hours.

----------


## kinem

The distance to the Market Ward from the Black Sail is roughly 3 miles, typically a 1 hour walk, possibly more with crowds and winding streets. Is the party walking over there now?

----------


## Archmage1

Well, the meeting with Rule is at 1.  It is currently 11:30 or so, which would leave an hour and a half total.

So, say, swap to, say, the Friendly Fiend Magic Shop?  Or just wander along, and see if Ash gets any hits on the locate object spell, once she leaves the mansion?
Brokah and Miccah's pawnshop?  Wizard's mark components shop?  Lots of options in the lower ward

----------


## Cavir

Any thoughts on how to get some Negative protection (Death Ward?) with about 20k to spend? Whatever it is I'll probably have to add to it current gear. I don't have armor to use armor crystals. I'll probably get a weapon crystal vs undead and/or constructs for the great swordbow.

----------


## Archmage1

The arms and equipment guide covers adding armor enhancements and such to bracers of armor, so they could slot armor crystals, and the ever handy soulfire enchantment(Or the counter transmutation one, if desired).  The MiC also calls out adding them to anything that gives an armor bonus to AC.

The A&G also has a beekeeper outfit, which isn't actually armor.

Past that, what slots do you have open?

Edit:  Eilyra may be slightly grumpy.

----------


## Toliudar

If it's helpful, Ash also has Mass Death Ward memorized.  It only lasts about 20 minutes, though.

----------


## Archmage1

Honestly, based on what we saw of the avatarist, a transmutation counter might be wiser, especially if Ash can handle death ward.

----------


## Toliudar

It's going to be hard to counter SLA's. I can ready an action to dispel whatever effect is created, but there are no guarantees. If Woody isn't open to conversation, just dogpiling him and a quick takedown may be our safest option.

----------


## kinem

> https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/findThePath.htm
> The recipient of this spell can find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specified destination, be it the way into or out of a locale. The locale can be outdoors, underground, or even inside a maze spell. Find the path works with respect to locations, not objects or creatures at a locale. The location must be on the same plane as you are at the time of casting.
> 
> The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding. The spell ends when the destination is reached or the duration expires, whichever comes first. Find the path can be used to remove the subject and its companions from the effect of a maze spell in a single round.
> 
> This divination is keyed to the recipient, not its companions, and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians).


It doesn't find objects. Finding the place where an object is would be the same as finding the object, so it doesn't do that.

Saying "the place where we could buy it" is a clever attempt to get around that, but the spell also doesn't allow for the actions of creatures.

So at best, if there were a Tuning Fork Vending Machine - which is not impossible in a planar metropolis like Sigil - the spell might be able to find it. I'm not really sure that is legit, since that's almost the same as finding an object rather than a place.

Sadly, Ash's spell doesn't find one.

From what you know, when it comes to magic items and spell focuses and components, the Friendly Fiend is as good of a bet as any in Sigil.

----------


## Cavir

My only untouched slot are hands and torso (goliaths are proud of their skin patterns and armor blocks monk skills) . For a shield, I guess there's the animated trick but that would still mess with my monk abilities.

Great Swordbow, MiC p61. It's a +1 weapon for both sword and bow. Realized I need to up that to be able to use greater crystals. Is that going to be standard costs to get to +2 or +3? If not, how much?

I can buy some magic arrows as another way to get past the anti-life shell. 

Just checking- I can't use weapon crystals with the Necklace of Natural Attacks right? That's at +4 so it is good for greater crystals if so.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm not sure on the great swordbow, but Eilyra can cast greater magic weapon, if asked, and her CL is high enough for a +5.  If you want it cast all the time, she'd probably ask for a pearl of power.

I'm not sure about anything that provides effective protection from death given the body slot, but... there are a lot of magical robes.  Maybe one of those might help?  That said, I didn't see any when I was looking.

I am aware that Eilyra is being less than corporative.  She has quite a few sources of frustration currently.

----------


## Toliudar

> It doesn't find objects. Finding the place where an object is would be the same as finding the object, so it doesn't do that.
> 
> Saying "the place where we could buy it" is a clever attempt to get around that, but the spell also doesn't allow for the actions of creatures.
> 
> So at best, if there were a Tuning Fork Vending Machine - which is not impossible in a planar metropolis like Sigil - the spell might be able to find it. I'm not really sure that is legit, since that's almost the same as finding an object rather than a place.
> 
> Sadly, Ash's spell doesn't find one.
> 
> From what you know, when it comes to magic items and spell focuses and components, the Friendly Fiend is as good of a bet as any in Sigil.


Understood, and thanks!

----------


## kinem

> Just checking- I can't use weapon crystals with the Necklace of Natural Attacks right?


That doesn't work.

----------


## Archmage1

For weapon crystals, there is the Scorpion Kama.  Does damage equal to your unarmed strike damage, assuming you do more damage than a kama.

----------


## paradox26

Sorry I have been quiet. I started a new job this week, and haven't had a lot of free time with the compulsory training as well as actually learning on the job.

----------


## Archmage1

No worries!  Work is important, and knowing what you should be doing while at work is also quite helpful,  especially when it comes to keeping that job!  I hope it is a fun, and enjoyable job!

----------


## Archmage1

Of course, Eilyra only has ~1400 gold, so she can't afford to get everything.  Probably on the ruin delver's fortune, considering that the headband and ring would need to be merged, which is beyond the powers of wish(Which she can actually cast, although that 5k XP penalty is a heavy thing.  Reasons Miracle is better...), and sending would be more of a group thing.

----------


## kinem

To clarify something: When Miracle is used to quickly merge magic items, you still have to supply enough initial value to equal or exceed the value of the final item. If there is no 50% cost increase for the second effect, as for common effects for the slot, then the two items are enough. If there is a cost increase, then components such as diamonds must be supplied to make up the difference.

----------


## Archmage1

:Small Smile: 

That does remind me:  Polymorph Any Object explicitly calls out the flesh to stone, and stone to flesh spells as spells it can duplicate.  Would it be safe to say that ice to flesh, and flesh to ice would be included among those effects?

----------


## kinem

> Would it be safe to say that ice to flesh, and flesh to ice would be included among those effects?


Depends on who you say it to and in what context  :Small Big Grin: 

But yes, it makes sense.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent!  And if you're worried about the more cheesy usages of PaO... I've got no intention of using them.

----------


## Archmage1

15 factions?

And transition?  

Are we in a pre faction war continuity?

----------


## kinem

No; the factions were banned but they are being allowed back :Small Big Grin:  possibly due to Sigil being boring without them  :Small Red Face: 

The ban was never meant to be permanent. With the end of 2nd edition, Planescape was no longer getting new material, so that's how it ended.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok. So... seeing as Eilyra does know quite a bit about the factions... are they all coming back?  Or are some new ones arising, since some of the original factions were obliterated by the war...

----------


## kinem

Those are very much IC open questions at this point.

----------


## kinem

I'll be out of town 7/15-7/18. I'll have a cell phone, but my posting will be limited.

----------


## paradox26

Apologies to all for my absence. The week after I started my new job, my father in law deteriorated badly and was admitted to hospital. He is on his death bed, but is still holding on. So I have been at the hospital nearly all day every day keeping an eye on him. I may need a little more time before I can reliably post again.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm sorry to hear that, paradox.  Thank you for letting us know.

----------


## kinem

Best wishes, Paradox.

----------


## Toliudar

Our thoughts are with you, Paradox.

----------


## Cavir

Sorry to hear that P26.

I've been stuck on finding good stuff to get with the new jink (not enough time to do thorough book searching). I guess for now I'll just get two Center Stones for 700gp and convert the rest into diamonds.

I did get a chuckle with Rule handing over the bag with jink- would have been several thousand pounds worth!

Don't forget to reset things like spells. I still need to do that (and specify when done).

----------


## kinem

> I did get a chuckle with Rule handing over the bag with jink- would have been several thousand pounds worth!


Though you've seen indications that Rule is stronger than he looks, he's not _that_ strong. As mentioned, part of it was in gems, which can be traded like cash. Most of the coins would have been platinum. Since 50 coins = 1 pound, even 50k in platinum would only weigh 100 lbs. Finally, it seems like he has a Bag of Holding where he keeps certain things.

----------


## Archmage1

Welp, that's considerably more expensive than I was expecting, and is well beyond Eilyra's budget, even at the low end, so, time for some knowledge checks.

(1d20+36)[*52*] know:  Arcana:  What is the process for making Tuning forks?  Is this something we can reasonably do?
(1d20+36)[*41*] Know:  Planes:  How rare/unusual/difficult to acquire are tuning forks?  And how difficult is it to get back to Sigil?  I presume we know of at least a few portals?

(1d20+36)[*54*] Know:  Local:  Are these prices reasonable?  Or highly inflated?

----------


## kinem

Given one to copy from, crafting an appropriate fork costs about 250 gp. The important part is to get the tone exactly right. Without one to copy, it can be a matter of trial and error.

In a place like this, bargaining is common. The price is probably inflated, but hes not wrong about the importance of getting one thats already been tested.

Getting to Sigil is easy enough from Faerun or Greyhawk or the Outlands, but other planes may be harder. However you could Plane Shift to one of the planes where its not hard.

----------


## Archmage1

Or, you know, quite challenging, if you are too broke to afford a tuning fork.   :Small Big Grin: 

What sort of materials would be needed to copy a fork?  And what sort of checks/how long would it take to do so?

----------


## kinem

Metal, with a specific kind for each plane. Id say DC 25 Craft (metalworking) with standard time required. On a failed check, it may send you to the wrong place.

----------


## Archmage1

Ah, crafting.  Always such a good idea, then ruined by the whole time portion.  We could reliably hit a DC of 25 with a bit of finangling, but 625 silver progress per week means 4ish weeks to complete one fork.  Alas, we don't have the time for that.

That does, however, raise the issue of cost, and time.

It would certainly be faster for us to buy them, assuming someone with gold funds it, but that does open up an alternative:  Fabricate(Although, again, Eilyra doesn't know it.).  We would need to find a way to boost her craft check by 5(So she can take 10, and hit a DC of 25)(Such a magical item would cost 2500, but we can also save some gold by getting a masterwork item, and a +3 item, which would only cost 900.

Of course, this would take 41 hours total to get the forks this way.

----------


## kinem

You also dont have ones to copy from.

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss can pitch in for the forks. Has 20k+. 
Count the forks as group supplies (shared cost) and Avakuss gets reimbursed his non-share later?

----------


## Archmage1

On the bright side, apart from all the pieces of the plan, it is a workable plan.

Might know:  Planes be sufficient for knowing what tone is needed for a fork for a specific plane?

Edit:  That could work as well, but acquiring a few forks beyond what we actually need will get pricey, quickly.

----------


## kinem

Center would certainly "pitch" in for tuning forks as well.

Knowledge: planes wouldn't be enough  :Small Eek:

----------


## Archmage1

How would one be made without a fork?

----------


## kinem

From trial and error, going by written descriptions of the tone, or Wish/Miracle.

----------


## Toliudar

May I suggest, then, that we proceed to the next step of the plan, and return to Sigil if/as it becomes apparent that we'll need to proceed with some version of crafting.

----------


## Archmage1

If we're willing to spend the gold, we can get the forks.  Crafting costs time, and less gold(Fabricate plus Eilyra's memories should be enough, if we pick something up to boost her craft check.)

----------


## Cavir

Forgive my ignorance please, do we need the elemental planes?

----------


## Archmage1

At the moment, no.  However, the thought there was that we may need them in the future...

And, more importantly, we don't want to highlight the portal locations should someone be investigating our activities.  At the core, we need the Astral, Bavia(Maybe.  The portal may be on a different prime...), and the Wastes.  The others are meant as a distraction from those three.

That said, Eilyra is broke, so it would be mostly coming from Avakuss and Center's gold reserves.  If you would rather we don't get them, the choice is yours.

If we really want to save on gold, at the cost of time, 1450 gold and two days should see us being able to duplicate them.

----------


## Cavir

OK, understood. Saving the multiverse is more important than some jink, more so  when there should be more coming.

----------


## Archmage1

On that note, is anyone else interested in attempting to bargain further?

Compared to the initial price(22k), 17k is a lot cheaper, but, well, we don't have a whole lot to bargain with.  Are there any other items that people intend on acquiring?

----------


## Cavir

I'm just looking for 2 Center Stones. 700gp total.  Maybe see about those getting thrown in.

----------


## Archmage1

Do we know that IC?  If not, it might be worth a post?   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Toliudar

Also, I confess my ignorance, and the failure of my google-fu.  What's a Centre Stone?

----------


## Cavir

Center Stones are here
"Grasping the stone and meditating for 1 hour will grant you an additional activation of the psychic energy center to which the stone is attuned"
Each gives me an extra activation of the Psychic Meditation feat also on that page but take an hour each to use with a max of 2 stones per day. 

And oops- forgot that they are one time use each. I'll buy more next time. At least I only need 2 hours sleep a night so I'll have time to use them while everyone else sleeps.

I forgot to put it in the IC, but I would select sapphire ones to go with the Third Eye energy center.

----------


## kinem

So how is the payment being divided?

----------


## Archmage1

That is a good question...

Split three ways, between Avakuss, Ash, and Center of All?  5666 for two, and 5667 for the third?

----------


## kinem

Center will put in 6k.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  That would leave Ash and Avakuss with 5500 spent each, to be repaid later.  Any objections there?

----------


## Cavir

Nope, all good here.

----------


## kinem

I take it that there are no objections to the plan stated by Eilyra, right?

----------


## Archmage1

To be fair, it isn't exactly Eilyra's plan, but Ash insisted.  Eilyra doesn't expect to be successful.

----------


## Cavir

Timeline check 
Meet 4 hours before Anti-Peak
Pandemonium trip (P1)
sleep
meet Rule early pm
merchant stop
now: P2 trip 

We're still <24 hours since we first met right or am I forgetting an extra night's sleep? Checking in terms of spell/power duration since I have stuff lasting 38 hours. 

Yes, I'm good with going back to Pandemonium now. Based on the above I'll renew stuff if needed just before going through the portal.

----------


## Toliudar

> Ok.  That would leave Ash and Avakuss with 5500 spent each, to be repaid later.  Any objections there?


Ash will contribute 5,500.

I'm travelling this week, and internet access & free time are not lining up well.  Back this weekend.  My apologies.

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Looks right.

----------


## Archmage1

Any signs of tracks, or blood, or splinters, or anything like that around?

----------


## kinem

No. But hard stone and high wind are not very conducive to tracking.

----------


## Archmage1

While I would agree with you, Eilyra's survival is an impressive -1.  So her idea of tracking may not be entirely accurate...   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Archmage1

We already explored the entrance, and the library, and Ash had arcane sight up, so if there was a portal there, we would have noticed.  So continuing on makes sense, I think, unless there is something I'm missing?

----------


## Cavir

Arcane Sight wouldn't see an inactive portal right? I'm not sure we brought the portal key to the back area of the library or all around the cavern. We should check those at some point. Center has one key, who is carrying the other?

----------


## Archmage1

I believe Eilyra currently has it, as she took it before heading through the portal to find out if there was an ambush waiting.

Arcane sight would see an inactive portal.  Probably.  Unless it were deliberately concealed in some way, even an inactive portal has a weak transmutation aura.

----------


## Cavir

> OOC: (2d10)[8] damage, Reflex half DC 22; DR applies
> (2d10)[10] damage, Reflex half DC 22; DR applies


Reflex1 (1d20+19)[*36*]
Reflex2 (1d20+19)[*37*]
Damage absorbed by 25 temp hp

----------


## Archmage1

Reflex saves!  Eilyra can do those!

(1d20+28)[*38*] Save the first
(1d20+28)[*31*] Save the second

Is there anything magical about the door?

----------


## kinem

No magic on the door this time.

----------


## kinem

P26 is dealing with family issues for the next few days at least.

----------


## Toliudar

Sorry to hear!

----------


## Archmage1

How high is the ceiling of the room we're in?

----------


## Archmage1

Is there anywhere on the door that a rope might reasonably be fastened, so we can pull it open at a distance after unlocking it?

It seems much safer to use a rope, and have everyone be out of the AOE of readied blasts than have someone open the door.

----------


## kinem

The door has some stone carvings on it that might serve.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah... ah... Eilyra would need help to hit a DC 22 strength check.
As in, someone else would need to make the actual roll.
(1d20-1)[*7*] Strength!

(1d20+14)[*19*] Dungeoneering, and knowledge devotion

(1d20+23)[*38*] Initiative

... I completely forgot to recast Moment of Prescience.  Which is saddening.

Well, no identification, but spider-like means that plan A, web, is probably not a good idea, so plan B:  Freezing fog it shall be!  Probably.

----------


## Cavir

Feel free to roll init for everyone like we talked about.
Init (1d20+4)[*22*]

I have a light and darkvision.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash Initiative: (1d20+10)[*21*]

Knowledge Dungeoneering: (1d20+13)[*26*]

Maybe I could throw in a blast of flame before we throw the freezing fog?

----------


## Cavir

Freezing Fog? Center mentioned Cone of Cold. With the spider's init roll they'll probably be on us (me/Center?) anyway. I've got resist 30 so if necessary hit me but let's see how they handle my blast first. Wonder if this is one or more swarms. Looks like we'll be guessing on energy types needed.

Base init roll for Center (1d20)[*2*].
Kinem, Maybe post Center's stats block you gave us to the initial OOC post for easy finding?

Toliudar- for later on (after another shopping spree at least), could Ash cast Miracle for Avakuss to merge some magic items? Do we need to bring it up IC or just  handle it here?

----------


## Archmage1

I was thinking in terms of Freezing Fog because Eilyra goes first, so she can block the enemy's movement with it, so Center and Avakuss can blast with cones, which don't need LoS to the target.

Eilyra doesn't have light, but it is possible that the flaming weapon crystal she uses might throw some?  Of course, her sword is currently not out, but hey.

Edit:  OK, Eilyra could have used shapechange to turn into a dragon, and breathed, but the tunnel is on the small side...

----------


## Toliudar

> Toliudar- for later on (after another shopping spree at least), could Ash cast Miracle for Avakuss to merge some magic items? Do we need to bring it up IC or just  handle it here?


Sure.  Assuming I've got Miracles left at the end of the day, I can start to deal with merging items for Eilyra and Avakuss.  I'm okay with either IC or OOC.

----------


## Archmage1

If we get 5 rods of excellent magic, Eilyra could use wish for this too?  There's nothing wrong with 3250000 gold being spent for that cause, right?   :Small Tongue:

----------


## kinem

> If we get 5 rods of excellent magic, Eilyra could use wish for this too?  There's nothing wrong with 3250000 gold being spent for that cause, right?


Ingenious plan, except that the rods' effects won't stack  :Small Big Grin: 

Center is an Aurumach Rilmani, but not a standard one. His Initiative modifier is +6.

Taric's initiative (1d20+3)[*12*]

----------


## Archmage1

You _say_ that, but I have a Miracle that says otherwise.   :Small Tongue: 
Or maybe a Wish?   :Small Big Grin: 

Look, paying for epic spells gets expensive.  531000 gold, 11 days, 21240 XP... for a spell that burns 2k XP to cast, and only does 35d6 damage, while allowing a save for half...   :Small Big Grin: 

And that's one of the more benign things you can do with them...

----------


## kinem

The swarm has a bit of SR. I think Avakuss is CL 19 vs SR: (1d20+19)[*33*]

Other than Center also blasting with a cone, is anyone else planning to act this round?

----------


## Archmage1

That leaves Ash and Eilyra(Well, she acts before the swarm in the next round, which kinda counts?)

Ash did want to throw in a blast of flame before the fog, but the initiative order didn't allow that, but Eilyra was planning on darting in, doing some stabbing, seeing where the swarm is, and then departing(And reporting) as she has freedom of movement when she is hasted.

Plus, Freezing Fog is pretty nasty, what with proneing on a failed reflex save, some damage, and has a hard time moving...

----------


## Toliudar

Ash would like to do SOMETHING this round.  Does she have any idea what these critters are?  If I guessed wrong with aberration, feel free to roll the appropriate knowledge on her behalf.  Actually, Mindsight would tell her what class of critter they are.

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, Aberration was right, and the DC was a 30.

Maybe investing in invisible spell might be a plan?  But there are so many handy feats...

----------


## Cavir

Is the wind from the tunnels going to disperse the fog quickly?
Does Ash pick anything with mindsense?
Is there a rod of invisible spell to save on the feat?

----------


## Archmage1

If it counts as severe?

And alas, invisible spell is not available in rod form. :(

----------


## kinem

The wind in the tunnel offshoot that led to the door is much less severe than in the main tunnel, so it won't disperse the fog for a while.

I think we can assume that Taric will sit this one out.

The creatures are indeed Aberrations.

If either Ash or Eilyra want to take further action before it's the swarm's turn, now is the time.

----------


## Toliudar

I think I'll wait to see what comes scuttling out, if anything, and whether they've been damaged by the electricity and cold.

----------


## Archmage1

Since I failed to mention it IC, Eilyra's intentions are to communicate the status of the enemies after she figures it out herself...

(And her movement speed is 70 at the moment.)

----------


## Archmage1

I'm assuming Avakuss is worried about the creatures darting to the sides, and get into cover?  That would work against cone of cold(A blast), but Energy Cone is just nuts.

Seriously.  An amazing blast, with an incredibly broad range of options.  It is superior to basically every arcane blast spell, with some possible quibbling about the area.
In one power.
And is a spread, so cover is no barrier to it.

----------


## Cavir

> Eilyra stares blankly at Avakuss for a moment, before she speaks, struggling to get the words out as she tries not to sound too shocked.  "You just did?  Unless you are out of power?  They're in the fog still."
> 
> *Spoiler: OOC*
> Show
> 
> 
> We were 20 feet back from the door, when we opened it, and they were frozen at the entrance.
> Energy cone has a range of 60, and is a spread.
> It goes around corners.
> ...


Better to handle this OOC since we're doing this without a map. I assumed that the swarm in the room would be getting around the corner and thus be protected. Even if the swarm dies we are still blocked.

----------


## Archmage1

I would agree, but energy cone, Avakuss's blast, is a spread.

This means that it goes around corners to fill the area.

"Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you cant see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect. "

(https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOver...ons.htm#effect)

Edit:  Yes, moving through the cloud is painful, and yes, Eilyra can dismiss it.  But doing so before the swarm is dealt with is questionable.  They can reach us in one turn, and we have a limited ability to harm them.  It is, however, Avakuss's choice.

----------


## Cavir

Huh, being a Cone-shaped spread for an attack like that is weird. I thought it was a regular cone. Hadn't considered the possibility. Better to check if its a rules clarification OOC first if an IC thing seems off.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah.  It is definitely a spread in the SRD.
And in the Expanded Psionics Handbook(Page 101)

----------


## Archmage1

As a side note, it may make sense for us to edit that conversation once kinem gives some direction.

It didn't occur to me that the insects would be smart enough to go for cover, and that they could.

Eilyra, however, is considerably more intelligent than I am.

----------


## Cavir

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that I didn't notice/know. Updating the IC would be good.
I figured blasting from the doorway would ensure to get them all. If I'm told they are still exposed enough I'll blast.
I was also assuming the door was to the side, not facing us so that could have created the confusion too.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash would know that the swarm's individual components have only an animal intelligence, so unless they have some kind of hive mind going, they're not plotting complex strategy.

No offense to any animals in the audience.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah... I'm not quite sure how I first thought Freezing Fog is dismissable, but it isn't.

On the bright side, 20 minutes of spell scribing, assuming Avakuss can kill them all, and/or Ash can keep him informed?

----------


## Cavir

Center has Greater Dispel at will, so it's more a matter of When we want it gone. Let's see how my third blast goes.

----------


## Archmage1

While you are correct, on the other hand, 20 minutes of scribing time.

That would leave Eilyra with a mere 1900 to go!

----------


## kinem

Swarm Reflex (1d20+9)[*16*]
Swarm Reflex (1d20+9)[*21*]

----------


## paradox26

I am back. Sorry for my absence, and thank you for your patience. To save me from having to read back over a huge number of posts, can someone please give me a brief rundown on what has been happening IC since we got back from the tunnel with the lich?

----------


## Archmage1

Certainly!  We had a bit of an interesting time.

After returning from the tunnel with the lich, we met with Rule-of-Three, who agreed to handle item selling, but also said that it would be best to have a meeting later, in a more secure area.
We accepted this, and went back to the Black Sail to have a rest.  During it, items were sent to Rule-of-Three, who wasn't exactly pleased by that.
Once we finished resting, we met with Rule-of-Three again, to discuss our findings, which were that there were three potential gate sites, the lich and avatarist's existence, and a general desire for information.
With that meeting handled, we did a bit of shopping, to acquire some tuning forks, and other gear, and are currently back in pandemonium, to try and find the portal the lich used to get here from Bavia(Or somewhere else.).  We encountered a swarm, and used the combination of freezing fog, and energy cone(And cone of cold) to make it go away, which appears to have been successful.

There is also some disagreements about how best to proceed, whether we seek to gather more information about the Lich and Avatarist before we deal with them(If we do), or if we just dive straight into things.

----------


## Archmage1

With more time to study them, might we be able to make additional knowledge rolls?


Also, Prying Eyes specifies that "If an eye ever gets more than 1 mile away from you, it instantly ceases to exist. However, your link with the eye is such that you wont know if the eye was destroyed because it wandered out of range or because of some other event."
Would going through the portal count as going beyond the range, or does it count as connecting?

----------


## kinem

It would count as going beyond the range, except in the unlikely event that the portal leads to a place on the same plane within one mile.

----------


## Archmage1

Aw... and I was thinking that scrying was an excellent plan.   :Small Big Grin:  
Sadly, having the right spell available does make it somewhat redundant...

----------


## Toliudar

Scrying was definitely a more ingenious plan, though.

----------


## kinem

BTW: 'dox, good to see you back.

----------


## Archmage1

So... portals.

Maybe we're going too high tech?  Light a torch, and toss it through?

----------


## Toliudar

My vote would be to step into the material plane one first, and look into those ruins.

----------


## Archmage1

I would agree, but... swarms are not something Eilyra can really fight effectively.

And their presence, and aggressiveness suggests that the lich may have gone that way(Or didn't).(They may have followed him through)

Honestly, I'd like to disintegrate the probable grey wastes portal, or move on, and continue looking for other chambers.  If we want to investigate the spiders further, then we should figure out what they are.

Was there any mention of them(The spiders) in the books Eilyra read?

----------


## kinem

> Was there any mention of them(The spiders) in the books Eilyra read?


No, there wasnt.

----------


## Archmage1

On the bright side, that probably means that they aren't from Tharizdun's plane?  Maybe.

----------


## paradox26

> BTW: 'dox, good to see you back.


Thanks, kinem. Good to be back.

Turns out I didn't miss anything I could help with much. My character is not much use against swarms.

----------


## Archmage1

And now, we face a difficult choice:  Tarric is quite right.  Bavia is probably on the other side of the Prime Material portal, but...
That also puts us up against swarms.  Which I suppose we can handle?

----------


## Toliudar

My assumption is that we're going to end up checking both portals eventually.  I'm pretty much okay with going with either.

----------


## Archmage1

There are three portals, and Eilyra does know disintegrate.   :Small Smile: 

So, Insects first?  Or exploring pandemonium?  And IC talking too.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

My understanding is not that the third portal opens up on a solid object, but that it doesn't open on anything at all.  We can of course test that IC.

----------


## Archmage1

I thought it opened, but was blocked by something.  A slight difference!  Time for experimentation!(Well, ok, after Avakuss posts, anyway)

----------


## kinem

> I thought it opened, but was blocked by something.  A slight difference!


Being blocked by an object is one way to shut down a portal.  Is it possible to attack such an object from the other side of such a portal? Normally, no. Some portals might allow it.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok, so, plan bounce a colourful spider off a wall sounds like a go, then.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

How long has it been since we had the combat with the first swarm?  Less than 2 minutes twelve seconds?

----------


## Toliudar

I think Ash needed about 2 minutes to analyze the 3 portals.

----------


## Archmage1

Then haste is gone.
Very sad.
Things to do in the next combat:  Recast.
Also, probably shapechange into dragon for breath weapon.
Then change dragons to dodge that silly cooldown period...

----------


## Archmage1

Are the blasts working, and is the elemental able to snag the swarm?

----------


## kinem

See IC. Will Eilyra act now? The swarms' turn will be after that. As it can fly, it might escape the elemental.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra will pause, not wanting to take the lead, and waiting to see how the swarm handles the whirlwind.
She will, however, prepare to fly straight up to escape the swarm, should it come to that.

----------


## Archmage1

And... after remembering that Eilyra has arcane sight active, she, in fact, doesn't cast detect magic.

Is there any magic around the tower, or inside?

----------


## kinem

There is no magic apparent, aside from the partys.

----------


## Archmage1

So.. is epic magic planned to be a thing players potentially can do in this game?(As in develop, rather than find)  If so, is there an alternate system?  The Epic Handbook is broken.  Not in the OP fashion, but in the "This doesn't actually work" fashion.

Basically, the issue is the mitigation.  Without mitigation, it is basically impossible to make a spell that is worth the cost in gold/xp to develop.  With it, well... the game breaks.  Quickly.

Also, mitigation is the only way to actually pay for the insane gold and XP costs.

For example, doing Fireball(A 3rd level spell) as an epic spell without mitigation would cost 351k gold, take 8 days, and cost 14040 XP.(Also, the range is significantly lower)

----------


## Toliudar

Epic spells are indeed a spectacular pain in the ass. I'd be very happy to make them non-existent in the game, except as plot devices by the DM as needed.

----------


## kinem

In principle, it's a thing in the game, which some NPCs might do, but it's probably best if the PCs don't actually go that route.

----------


## Archmage1

That works.  I was considering going for Elven high mage, more for flavor/fluff than actual power, but... even then, I didn't actually have any plan to take epic spellcasting until level 28... and elven high mage is, surprisingly, almost strictly worse than straight wizard too.(Yes, you can make epic spells more cheaply.  But, well... really, if you are making epic spells, they're free anyway, because you just hire a school of magic for a day to drop the DC to 0.)

----------


## paradox26

I love the fluff of the elven high mages.

----------


## Archmage1

The fluff is amazing.  The actual class, however... is not.  It could be, if epic spells weren't broken, but as it is, well...

----------


## paradox26

They did a fairly good job with the High Mages in 2nd Edition. Basically, you could use special high powered spells, but not normal 1st-9th level spells anymore. Their magic use was for more elevated purposes.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra is casting Prying Eyes, which couldn't be quickened normally, but... I'm not sure about the Astral. One minute casting time.

The intent is to have a few fly out, to get an idea of the outline of the structure, while the others scout it out, very cautiously.  Yes, they can't go through the door.  There may be other entrances.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm
(1d4+22)[*23*] Eyes

----------


## kinem

The Quickening effect of the Astral is the same as that of Quicken Spell, so spells with long casting times can't be Quickened.

Anyone doing things while waiting for the Eyes?

----------


## Toliudar

I'll think of something.

----------


## Archmage1

I presume everyone is ok with plan make the door go away?

And the door is non-magical, right?

----------


## kinem

The door doesn't register as magical.

----------


## Archmage1

Do the robe colors have any special planar meaning, or do they have any meaning in the cult of Tharizdun?
(1d20+36)[*40*] planes or religion, (1d20+14)[*31*] History

Are the tracks recognizable enough to get anything about what sort of animal?  Size?  How long ago?  What did it have for breakfast last week?
(1d20+39)[*43*] Nature

----------


## kinem

Each purple robe has a pointed hood and long sleeves that would extend past the hands by about 6 inches.

*Spoiler: Archmage1*
Show

Servants of Tharizdun often wore robes of these colors.

The purple robes might be "Purple Robes of Tharizdun", garments which protect the wearer from cold within temples of the god.

The tracks are consistent with those of a rat-like animal about 3' long.

----------


## Archmage1

Speaking of...

Did we earn any XP for bravely watching Avakuss and Center slaughter the defenceless insects?
(Of course, the differing ECL's do make those calculations slightly more annoying.)

----------


## kinem

It's not worth getting too detailed for those. Total 300 xp per PC. It's a homebrew monster, and I have the swarm listed as CR 15, but the circumstances of the encounters were not conducive to verifying that estimate as they never got a chance to attack.

----------


## Archmage1

What were the effects?  Or will we potentially be fighting them later?

----------


## kinem

It could happen ...

----------


## Archmage1

Do the robes occupy the body slot, or the torso slot, or either? MiC isn't consistent.

----------


## kinem

The robes would occupy the Body slot (same slot as armor).

----------


## Archmage1

That does make things awkward.

Soulfire(With Eilyra's +18 fort) is somewhat handy for the goal of keeping Eilyra alive.

Time to hope that it won't be a problem heading forward.

----------


## Toliudar

Kinem, just to confirm - are we still unable to move in that cool astral plane my-int-powers-my-movement in this area?  If that form of movement is open to us, then Ash wouldn't have needed to cast Elemental Body.

----------


## kinem

The 'subjective gravity' trait of the astral plane is overridden by the gravity with about half a mile of the 'island' which is presumably the body of a dead god. That's based on how things work in a Dungeon adventure that takes place on the Astral.

----------


## Archmage1

So... what you're saying is that if we want to move at int*5 speed, we need to blow this popsicle stand?

----------


## Archmage1

Madman being held in a Thrazidun temple... this isn't suspicious, at all.

I presume the Astral sea would cover the need for food and water?

(1d20+36)[*55*] Know:  Religion.  Any ideas on why a prisoner might be left in a temple of Thrazidun?

----------


## kinem

It was not unknown for followers of Tharizdun to keep prisoners for torture and/or experimentation. The Astral would negate the needs for food and water.

(1d20)[*7*]

----------


## Toliudar

And, IIRC, aging is suspended until you leave the Astral.  So this guy could have been here for millenia.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra does have detect thoughts, which could be handy, but...

----------


## Toliudar

Ash also has Heal, which cures mental illnesses as well as physical ones. So even if he's currently insane, there's a good chance that we can restore him sufficiently to find out what he knows, barring plot armour.

----------


## Cavir

Followed by him going back through the portal then turning to dust.  :Small Eek:

----------


## Archmage1

So long as he gives us the information we want first, do we care?

(Protip:  Eilyra is not the most caring individual.)

----------


## Toliudar

Okay...we're getting way ahead of ourselves again.

But since we're doing so...as long as he stays on the astral, he's fine.  This is how the gith happened, right?  Ordinary humans who came (okay, were dragged here as slaves) and never left.  So there's ample precedent for making a life for yourself on the Astral plane.  We might just need someone to fly him off this rock so that he can go explore the universe on his own.

----------


## kinem

> For telepathy, if you have MB up, outgoing communication is blocked.


This is relevant ...

----------


## Archmage1

This is true.  And I probably should have remembered that ruling.

Ah, well.  Eilyra couldn't really risk communicating otherwise, as it would almost certainly set off the guardian spirit.  Especially as it patrols(Ash missed it)

----------


## kinem

I think Taric also has Mind Blank up and can't send telepathically.

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20+11)[*21*]

----------


## Archmage1

Harbinger:  That sound appropriately religious/something?

Does Eilyra have any knowledge around what that means, in relation to Thrazidun?

(1d20+36)[*43*] Know:  Religion(Or arcana, or local, or planes.)

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

If it relates to Tharizdun, it's probably a being sent to prepare the way for his return.

----------


## paradox26

> I think Taric also has Mind Blank up and can't send telepathically.


Bugger. Wasn't sure if it was still up or not. I will go with it being up, and will just have him talking to himself, until he realises that no one can hear him.

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+1)[*8*] Sense Motive.

See, Eilyra's great at sending the motives of others.

On a slightly unrelated note, what level of concealment does this creature have, to simplify things?  Eilyra is using a +5 weapon.

----------


## kinem

Regarding what Eilyra sees of it now, I wouldn't say that it has concealment as such.

----------


## Archmage1

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show


What does Eilyra know about this suggestion?  And presuming that this is a gate to Tharzidun's prison, what are the chances that doing so would be exceedingly unwise?
(1d20+36)[*48*] Arcana(Ritual of power draw?)
(1d20+36)[*38*] Planes(Ritual of power draw, contamination risks?)
(1d20+36)[*55*] Religion(Contamination risks, ritual of power draw)
(If spellcraft would be appropriate, her mod is a +38)

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

This isn't something that can normally be done with a planar portal. It's likely that the source of the power would be either to deplete the forces sealing the portal, or to draw power from the god himself, which could increase his ability to influence events on this side and to pull over more power.

----------


## Archmage1

So... going hostile.

(1d20+36)[*54*] Know:  Arcana, planes, or religion for knowledge devotion.

----------


## Archmage1

Crit confirm:

(1d20+30)[*41*] Attack
(1d10+20)[*25*] bonus damage.

----------


## Archmage1

Am I correct in thinking that this isn't registering as a magical effect, courtesy of arcane sight?

----------


## kinem

Correct. Nothing registers on Arcane Sight, True Seeing, or Mindsight.

----------


## Archmage1

Center of All is nearby as well?  
If it is ethereal, or involved with the magic of the robe(Although, in that case, Ash may see it as well)

----------


## kinem

Hes not far, in the central tunnel. 

Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think Ash is wearing the robe; she just slung it over her shoulder to carry it.

----------


## Toliudar

I had planned to actually put it on, potentially yanking it off if combat comes along, but she hasn't seen the harbinger yet at all anyway, so we can roll with it either way.

----------


## kinem

Is Ash wearing it now?

----------


## Toliudar

Yes.  To remove ambiguity, she's putting it on as she rejoins the others.

----------


## Cavir

Does the corridor continue on beyond the prison cell?

Once Eilyra removes the robe (if possible), Avakuss can try it on and see if there is a difference with his Steadfast Perception active (immunity to all figments and glamers (such as invisibility)).

----------


## kinem

The central corridor continues past the crossroads intersection and ends in a large closed door.

----------


## Cavir

I wasn't clear, at the four way intersection:
1) room we started in
2) cavern with the "ghost"
3) cavern with prison cell
4) large closed door

For #3, does the cavern have anything else besides the cell?

----------


## kinem

Gotcha. No, that cavern just has the cell.

----------


## Toliudar

Archmage, I've already indicated that Ash has summarized her interaction with Antis, so take from that what you will.

----------


## Archmage1

That is what I get for phone posting.  I missed that post.  Editing now.

----------


## Archmage1

Admittedly, I suppose we could try playing with the statue and the magical torch we found, but... we presumably failed the check to realize that there was anything there.  Very sad.

----------


## Toliudar

Or maybe they only become a thing elsewhere - like at this purple portal thing.

----------


## Archmage1

For you see, Eilyra thought ahead:  She prepared disintegrate three times today.  And Polymorph any object twice.  Plus she has her vest, which gives her 3 spell recovers of any level.

----------


## paradox26

Disintegrate is one of my favourite spells, and you certainly did a good job in preparing it so many times today.

----------


## Archmage1

It is an excellent solution to a wide variety of common problems.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

And disintegrate has real world applications!  It would certainly help with traffic jams.  Clogged sinks.  Oh, the possibilities.

----------


## Archmage1

Why, it's practically a poor woman's duct tape!  Things moving, when they shouldn't?  No more things!  Things not moving when they should?  No more things!

Also, could be quite useful for cleaning up nuclear waste.  The last word in cleaning.

----------


## Archmage1

Once again, on the list of "Things Eilyra didn't prepare today", light appears.  Although she could pull out some rope, and light it on fire, I suppose.

Or, if someone has some serious fire resistance, she could cast combust on them, and turn them into a living torch.

----------


## Cavir

Antis has not entered the darkness yet right? He seems to be intent on going in without robes or within the radius of the torch?

----------


## kinem

Thats correct.

On IDing magic items with Knowledge: Arcana, Im not so sure on that. I know some DMs allow it. Are there official rules for it?

----------


## Archmage1

MIC 217 has some rules.  Admittedly, re-reading it, spellcraft is probably a better option(Arcana is appropriate if it is a legendary item, or a well known, recognizable item.)

Eilyra's arcane sight should have a few minutes remaining, which does duplicate detect magic:  (1d20+38)[*41*] Spellcraft
Notably, the rules in the MIC(identification DC is 10+(15+item CL)) differs from the rules for epic spellcraft(50+CL)

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note, absent a really, really good explanation, Eilyra's about at the stage of suspicion wherein she kills Antis.(Because it is looking rather like he is a cultist left as a trap, rather than a genuine prisoner)

----------


## Cavir

Yup. Avakuss is letting Antis hang himself. Hopefully we are not wasting away the incense during all this.




> Market Price: 125,000 gp. Source: Arms and Equipment Guide
> Since Force is one of Tharizdun's domains, this is a popular item among his servants.


Yum yum let's find some more!

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra wasn't going to mention that, but the wall of force and the blast of force options seem to be pretty handy.  The sword, well... touch attacks, sure, but Eilyra has the strength of a 1st level wizard, so...

----------


## paradox26

I won't object to killing the prisoner. He seems too unreliable to keep around while we have potential cultists running around nearby.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra shrugs and follows Antis, content to let this gamble play out, confident in her ability to stop Antis from fleeing with the rod should he make the attempt.

(Continuing to be ready with dimensional anchor)

----------


## Archmage1

... I'm sorry about that.  I had both windows open, and mixed them up. :(

----------


## Archmage1

Right.  So...

Time to kill him, because he is being highly suspicious?

----------


## Toliudar

I feel like Antis is surrounded by the powerful aura of plot.  While we eliminate a potential threat by killing him now, we also potentially lose out on shortcuts to actually understand what the heck is going on.

----------


## Archmage1

For consideration:  We've bandied about for a while, and haven't made a determination that it is time to put a stop to this, so time to go all in.

Hopefully, things go either well, or at least they don't go too badly.

----------


## Archmage1

Since we have three robes, and 3 people without fast healing, maybe it makes sense to give them the robes?  Eilyra has one, and I believe Taric also has one.  Did Avakuss take one too?(Sorry, my memory's a bit fuzzy there.)

----------


## kinem

I probably should have pointed this out earlier but since natural healing doesnt work on the Astral Plane, neither does Fast Healing. Regeneration would still work.

----------


## Archmage1

That... does make things more challenging.

Out of idle curiosity, what is the damage rate?

----------


## Toliudar

Ash, while perhaps on the low end of the HP range for the group, has good ability to zip ahead, or to heal herself part-way through.  I'm okay with leaving the third cloak for Avakuss or Centre.

----------


## kinem

> Out of idle curiosity, what is the damage rate?


That remains to be seen IC.

Currently I think Eilyra, Taric, and Avakuss have the purple robes to protect from the "cold".

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note, with Arcane Sight giving Eilyra an idea of the magic of the purple robe, how feasible would it be to tune a resist energy to counter the cold?

----------


## kinem

That would not be possible.

Please be a lot more specific regarding movement and actions. Will the party attempt to move simultaneously? How far will you go? Straight north? What will you do if Antis does attempt to bolt? Remember, the torch light is only a 10 radius. Assume that potential hazards may exist depending on where you go.

----------


## Toliudar

If the torchlight only reveals a 10' circle, is it fair to assume that once you're out of that circle, you can't see the light of the torch?  

Also, when Avakuss tested out the cold by going into the tunnel, did he still show on Ash's mindsight?

And finally, remember that Antis is still under the influence of the Suggestion "Don't go anywhere without us."

----------


## Archmage1

I think we will be moving as a group, heading north at a rate of 30 feet per round until/unless something happens/is seen.

If Antis attempts to bolt, Eilyra will be casting dimensional anchor, but will leave it up to others to catch him(Which probably means moving into initiative)

----------


## kinem

> If the torchlight only reveals a 10' circle, is it fair to assume that once you're out of that circle, you can't see the light of the torch?


That's likely.




> Also, when Avakuss tested out the cold by going into the tunnel, did he still show on Ash's mindsight?


Ash's mindsight seems unaffected by the dark cavern, but I think Avakuss has Mind Blank on him.

----------


## Archmage1

Is Antis doing anything and or is he continuing forwards?

----------


## kinem

For the moment, he's just accompanying the rest of you.

----------


## Cavir

If Antis bolts, Avakuss is grabbing him. 
Arcane Sight and Mind Sight aren't picking up anything beyond the torchlight?

----------


## kinem

Arcane Sight doesn't penetrate this darkness, and Mindsight isn't picking up anything outside the party (but is picking up Antis).

----------


## paradox26

If Antis bolts, it is likely that Taric would just kill him outright, and I am sure he wouldn't be alone in that idea.

----------


## kinem

Eilyra said go left, Avakuss go right. Which will it be?

----------


## Cavir

My bad. Going left and updating IC.

----------


## Archmage1

Elyria has the light. :)

----------


## kinem

..........

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20+11)[*14*]

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+12)[*28*] Will!(Just to find out if she would have beaten the DC 23 on her own...)

Or, more honestly...
(1d20+34)[*51*] Will, burning Eilyra's moment of prescience

...
Well, I guess that's an 8th level spell burned.  Still, worth it.

----------


## Archmage1

...
And did some editing IC, because posting when tired does not lead to good posting.

Slight modification.

----------


## Archmage1

... And checking her saves, I think I failed to calculate them properly.  

Fort = 1.66(Wiz) + .33(Ruathar) + 3(Swiftblade) + 1.66(Abjurant Champion) = 6.66(If Partial Saves), 5(if not)
Reflex = 1.66(Wiz) + 2.5(Ruathar) + 6.5(Swiftblade) + 1.66(Abjurant Champion) = 12.33(if partial saves), 10 (if not)
Will =4.5(Wiz) + 2.5(Ruathar) + 6.5(Swiftblade) + 4.5(Abjurant Champion) = 18(if partial saves), 16(if not)

I think we're using partial saves?  And counting the +2.5 for the 1st level in a class with a good save multiple times?

(My guess as to the cause:  I forgot to add Abj Champ or Wizard into calculating the mixed saves.  Got the poor fort save right by dint of knowing she had 20 levels of bad saves)

----------


## Cavir

Will DC28 (1d20+28)[*43*] (with +7 from Precognition, Defensive, -5 for wearing purple cloak)

----------


## Toliudar

Ash will save: (1d20+33)[*52*]

If she rolls a one, she will immediately cast Fate of One to reroll the save: (1d20+33)[*49*]

If I roll 1's twice here, I think it's a sign that she's meant to end up in the mirror.  :Small Wink:

----------


## paradox26

(1d20+16)[*36*] Will save

----------


## Archmage1

Note:  Eilyra did pick up the rod as well, leaving just the pants.

Was the mirror affixed to a wall?  I was thinking that it was on a stand?

----------


## Toliudar

Eilyra is welcome to the rod.  I just thought Ash would make sure it was taken care of right away, in case there was an immediate ambush.

----------


## Archmage1

I don't really mind where it ends up(Honestly, I suspect we'll end up selling it.  It is a very useful item, but also very expensive.)

But we've currently got both Eilyra and Ash independently picking it up IC.

----------


## Toliudar

Both options lead to the same result.

----------


## Archmage1

Sadly, Eilyra is, I think, the slowest member of the group, rocking an amazing 40 foot speed, although it is also her fly speed.

I also hope that there isn't another mirror on the other side, because Eilyra hasn't recast moment of prescience, and being mirrored would be a sad ending.

----------


## Toliudar

If it helps, with Moment of Prescience, Ash should be able to fake the command word to get any of us out of a mirror, should that come up.  Does help if SHE's sucked in too, but so it goes.

----------


## Archmage1

Luckily, Ash's wisdom is slightly higher than that of the average lemming, resulting in a fairly solid will save.

Although, after checking Eilyra's saves, and recalculating Ash's saves, I am somewhat confused, and am suspecting that I might not be calculating saves properly.

So, I went ahead and checked Ash's saves, and counted how many levels of good v bad, and how many different multiclasses were good.  Which... puts her sheet fort save slightly high, and her reflex slightly low, and her will really low.
(Fort, Ref, Will)
G 1(1) 5(1) 20(5)
B 19 15 0
8.88  9.5 20

(For reference, Eilyra's calculation)
G 0 10(2) 20(4)
B 20 10 0
6.66 12.33 18

I was thinking we were doing partial saves, and just adding up?
Edit:  I can't math.  Fixed my inability to do basic addition.

----------


## Toliudar

I no longer remember whether I assumed partial or standard save/BAB progression, but will accept corrections as desired. 

Are you factoring in any benefit from level 21?  With partial saves, I'd assume that we'd get .5 to all saves.

If I understand partial progression correctly:
* The first level of a class that gives you a +2 bump at first level actually counts for 2.5
* Subsequent class levels at good progression give you .5
* All levels of bad progression give you 1/3

So Ash's fort would be 2.5 (from the Mindbender level) + (19 x 1/3, or 6.33) + .5 from epic = 9.33
Ash's reflex would be 2.5 (first level of Occult Seer) + (4 x .5, or 2) + (15 x .33, or 5) + .5 = 10 - a significant error on my part - thanks!
Ash's will would be 2.5 and 19x.5 and .5 epic = 12.5

Unless I'm wrong, which is entirely likely.

In that case, Eilyra would be:
Fort: 20 x .33 + .5 epic = 7.16
Ref: 2.5 + (9 x .5, or 4.5) + (10 x .33, or 3.33) + .5 = 10.87
Will: 2.5 + (19x.5) +.5 = 12.5

----------


## Archmage1

I was not factoring in any benefits from epic, since the language there is +1 every other level.(Also, Eilyra is level 20, not 21, so she doesn't get any epic bonus as she isn't epic at all.  The downside of LA buyoff.)

The question is, of course... do we get the +2 bonus for multiclassing into another class with the save as a good save?  Because that makes a significant difference.

----------


## kinem

In the recruitment thread there was no mention of partial save bonuses, IIRC. So no partial bonus stacking, but you do get the +2 for a good save.

----------


## Archmage1

Time to recalculate saves, then.
Class Level Fort Reflex Will
W 5 1 1 4
R  1 0 2 2
S  9 3 6 6
A  5 1 1 4

Totals:  Fort 5 Ref 10 Will 16

-1 fort, -2 reflex, -2 will from partial saves.

When your fortitude is lower than a 20th level wizard...
You know you might need to be somewhat careful about that.

Ash, in comparison
O 1 4 4
M 2 0 2
U 0 0 3
M 2 2 6
U 1 1 4

Fort 6 Ref 7 Will 19
-3 fort, -3 reflex, and -1 will.  Ouch.

Taric and Avakuss did it right the first time.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Cavir

Glad we turned left at Albuquerque back there! 
With -5 penalty...
Initiative: (1d20-1)[*9*]  auto fail
Know(relig) (1d20+2)[*7*] probable fail

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+18)[*20*] Initiative

(1d20+31)[*38*] Know:  Religion(Knowledge devotion, and finding out what Eilyra knows about the Black Cyst)

(1d20+31)[*32*] Know:  Arcana:  What does Eilyra know about that glowing circle?

(The -5 penalty is included in all those rolls.  Also, apparently, the dice are not Eilyra's friends today.  Add in holding a torch(and thus unable to use her two handed weapon...)

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

The Black Cyst is an Outsider, but since you have the same bonus for Knowledge(Planes), I'll use that roll. This one came with a handy sidebar for knowledge rolls:

KNOWLEDGE (THE PLANES) DC Result
28 This creature is a black cyst, a vile horror born from Tharizdun's tortured flesh. This result reveals all outsider traits.
33 Black cysts are particularly resilient creatures, and only weapons of the purest silver and those imbued with the essence of law have even the faintest hopes of injuring it.
38 A black cyst is the embodiment of madness and most of its attacks affect its foes' minds. Between its warping aura that distorts the senses to its various maddening spell-like abilities, to fight these things, an adventurer would do well to shield his mind.

For the glowing circle, you can't be sure, but it could be the experimental Gate you read about.

----------


## paradox26

I messed up my initiative roll in my IC post, so I will do it again here. (1d20-2)[*3*]

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## Archmage1

That's... fun.

Outsider, so great saves and BAB.  High DR(Silver and lawful), maybe regeneration(Broken by the same), and mind affecting attacks(Which it is probably immune to.).

And it goes first. :(

On the bright side, disintegrate doesn't care about regeneration, if we can beat it down.

----------


## Cavir

You are forgetting some fun parts.. Stay in the limited light or freeze and be blind. No flanking. Stay in a tight group. Incense (or its holder) gets snuffed and we're all snuffed.

Don't forget to tell the party about the enemy. Eh, guess we'll find out about damage resistance soon enough.

We may not have to stay and fight in its home territory... (Monty Python voices:) Run Away!

----------


## Archmage1

If the glowing thing is the gate, then letting it move away likely means more of them.

The really sad part is Eilyra not being able to use her sword(Ok, admittedly, she probably couldn't get through the DR anyway, but...)

----------


## Toliudar

Kinem, is Ash getting any reading for the tentacle thing from mindsight or arcane sight?

Knowledge (the planes): (1d20+18)[*29*]

----------


## Cavir

> The really sad part is Eilyra not being able to use her sword(Ok, admittedly, she probably couldn't get through the DR anyway, but...)


Could have Ash hold the torch.
... Nor can Avakuss Enlarge to do extra damage.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Ash*
Show

KNOWLEDGE (THE PLANES) DC Result
28 This creature is a black cyst, a vile horror born from Tharizdun's tortured flesh. This result reveals all outsider traits.

Mindsight reveals that the creature is an Outsider with a low Intelligence of 3.


I've had a rough day today. I'll try to post IC tomorrow.

----------


## Archmage1

I hope things improve!  No worries.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash: 
Will save vs -5 mind-affecting effect (fails only on a 1) (1d20)[*6*]
Will save vs confusion (1d20)[*14*]
If she fails the save vs confusion, she'll use Fate of One to get a reroll: (1d20)[*1*]

----------


## Cavir

Confusion DC 19 (1d20+26)[*34*]
If failed: (1d100)[*10*]

Will wait for other chars to speak up / act.

EDIT: Took 77 damage after 4 temp hp. At 220/297hp.

----------


## Cavir

Forgot about my Cloak of Displacement. Miss on a 1-20. 5 threatened hits.
(1d100)[*57*]
(1d100)[*56*]
(1d100)[*21*]
(1d100)[*100*]
(1d100)[*25*]

----------


## paradox26

Will save for the cackling: (1d20+11)[*31*], adjusted already to include the initial -5 to that.

Then the will save for the Confusion effect. If the first roll fails, as I suspect it will, then remove the extra -5 from that too., to save me making an extra post with the results included. (1d20+11)[*14*] Will save vs confusion.

And for the attack of opportunity against Taric, it hit exactly the number required to hurt him. Just misfortune with that one.

Edit: So I failed both rolls, and am now Confused.

----------


## Cavir

P26, the Cackling and Confusion saves are just for Ash, though you would have passed the first anyway by rolling a Nat20. The rest of us have Mind Blank, which might be good for Ash at this point.

----------


## Archmage1

Well, since touch attack spells can crit... does Night's Caress?

(1d20+29)[*33*] Crit Confirmation! Hopefully it has low touch AC!
(15d6+5)[*56*] Bonus damage + (1d6+2)[*6*] Extra CON damage(If the save fails.  Not sure if the CON damage gets doubled on a crit or not.)

----------


## Toliudar

Ash seems to be doing all right without Mind Blank for now. She has nondetection up, which pretty much takes care of divinations, and now that I'm clear that we're doing non-fractional saves/BAB, her will save is unintentionally goofy-high.

Oh, just to confirm, Kinem: are the -5 effect and the confusion effect emerging from the tentacle critter, the altar, or some other source?  I'm assuming that with Greater Arcane Sight, Ash would be able to track them at least a little.

----------


## Cavir

Toliudar, forgot to answer you IC sorry. Avakuss took hits but doesn't look too bad. Well, at least until he turned nightmarish but that's a different kind of bad. Will be interesting to see how bad the cyst is doing after that round from all of us.

Possible crits
Flurry5: (1d20+18)[*26*]
Damage:  (4d8+16)[*40*] + (1d6)[*5*] Electric

Tentacle2: (1d20+23)[*29*]
Damage: (2d8+6)[*20*]

----------


## Toliudar

> Toliudar, forgot to answer you IC sorry. Avakuss took hits but doesn't look too bad. Well, at least until he turned nightmarish but that's a different kind of bad. Will be interesting to see how bad the cyst is doing after that round from all of us.


Sounds good.  Ash's healing tends to be either tiny (lesser vigor) or heal spells, so I've got your back, but will hold off til post-combat if we can.

----------


## Archmage1

And lessor vigor, alas, doesn't work here.
Very sad.   :Small Frown:

----------


## kinem

> Not sure if the CON damage gets doubled on a crit or not.


Ability damage is normally 'doubled' (rolled twice) on a Crit. However, this monster is immune to crits.




> Oh, just to confirm, Kinem: are the -5 effect and the confusion effect emerging from the tentacle critter, the altar, or some other source?  I'm assuming that with Greater Arcane Sight, Ash would be able to track them at least a little.


The  DC 33 Will save mind-affecting insight -5 effect is an aura from the monster, and the confusion was a quickened SLA cast by the monster.

The other -5 effect, that is affecting the whole party and has no save against it, is not coming from the monster and has no visible source. In terms of how that one feels to the PCs, it just seems like bad luck.

AM1: It looks like you forgot the -5 when rolling vs SR. The -5 applies to all d20 rolls. Luckily for you, its SR is only 26.

Will vs Share Vision DC 25 (1d20+23)[*25*]

Fort vs Night's Caress Con damage DC 27 (1d20+26)[*31*]

----------


## Archmage1

I did indeed fail to apply the -5 to spell penetration, and the lack of crits is saddening.

And only failing that save on a 1...  Well, I think Fort saving spells are definitely out.  Maybe reflex would be better...

----------


## Cavir

> I did indeed fail to apply the -5 to spell penetration, and the lack of crits is saddening.
> 
> And only failing that save on a 1...  Well, I think Fort saving spells are definitely out.  Maybe reflex would be better...


And those saving throws are after suffering some negative levels  :Small Eek:

----------


## Archmage1

On the bright side there, they're not.  Both Ash's share vision and Eilyra's Night's Caress were cast before the Enervation.   :Small Big Grin: 

The next round, that might be helpful.   :Small Smile: 

On a side note

Kinem, how do you rule Mirror Image against Blindsight/Blindsense?

----------


## kinem

The monster did already have 3 negative levels from Taric's attack, which I took into account.

Mirror Image doesn't work against Blindsight or Blindsense.

The creature can choose to rely on that but not destroy any images on a miss, or if it can also see normally, it can choose to attack with the normal chance of hitting and destroying an image. This course of action might not be useful to a solo monster unless it has only Blindsense and a lot of attacks, but I could see minions preferring to do so.

----------


## Archmage1

And now I feel bad about not reading Taric's OOC spoilers.

That is good to know, with regard to Mirror Image.
I was considering Greater Mirror Image in response to getting attacked, but oozes all have blindsight, this thing seems pretty ooze-like, so it does too.  That does make Assay Spell Resistance pretty tempting...

Edit:  I think Eilyra will be waiting for Ash to point out where the ooze went, and exhaustion hurts.  Going from strength 8 to strength 2 is quite the drop.  On the bright side, muleback cords puts her at str 10 for carrying capacity, which lets her keep her light load, so long as she doesn't keep her sword drawn...

----------


## Toliudar

Ash will saves (even with the existing -5 bad-luck condition, saves on everything except a 1). If she rolls a 1 against the confusion, she will immediately cast fate of one to get a reroll
-5 effect: (1d20)[*5*]
Confusion: (1d20)[*5*]
Reroll if needed: (1d20)[*19*]

She'll attempt to use Sudden Insight to cast Greater Dispel Magic to counter the Waves of Exhaustion:
(1d20+15)[*19*] (factors in the -5)

I'll assume that's unsuccessful.

----------


## Archmage1

While Counterspelling is a great idea, I'm not sure if you can counterspell it:  It is probably a SLA, and, potentially more critically, it is not visible when it is casting.

----------


## Archmage1

Hopefully, light helps?   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

I'm assuming that her Ring of Spell-battle, which doesn't require line of sight, or even line of effect, helps with knowing the location of the source of the Waves.  Regardless, the counterspell was unsuccessful.

----------


## Archmage1

If you have a ring of spellbattle, it might be more fun to redirect the cone?

Once per day, when you succeed in identifying a spell in this manner, you can activate the ring to counterspell that spell as if with dispel magic, or change the target of the spell to any target within 60 feet of you. If you choose an illegal target (because of the spells range limitation or other restrictions), the spell functions normally and the effect is wasted

One of those two options seems a lot more fun, for some reason.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## kinem

It's a SLA, so you can't counterspell it, and the Ring of Spell-Battle doesn't work on SLAs.

----------


## Toliudar

Understood. Thanks!

----------


## Archmage1

Swiftblade's Blurred Alacrity is quite distinct from displacement, but you are right.  Having re-read the relevant abilities, blindsight nopes it.(Admittedly, not the spell miss chance, but the attack miss chance).  True Sight doesn't, but blindsight does. 

Luckily, in this case, Eilyra's AC is a 46, so the attack is a miss(49-3(Exhaustion))

----------


## paradox26

I had Taric act, but forgot to remove 5 points off the rolls for each damage roll, so please take that into account. I did remember to remove the -5 from the attack rolls though.

----------


## Archmage1

I don't think the -5 applies to damage rolls:  Just d20 rolls.   :Small Smile: 

I think Taric is the one saving us here.  Those level drains are nasty.

Edit:  On a side note, do we want to take steps to prevent the alter/portal from working?  Because that seems like it might be a good plan.

----------


## Toliudar

Is there a way to pause the portal without destroying it?  I'd love to be able to cast Analyze Portal on the altar, but that takes 3 rounds to cast.

----------


## Archmage1

Maybe?

The results of Eilyra's knowledge check earlier suggest that it may be an experimental gate, connecting to Tharizdun's prison directly.

Closing it is absolutely on Eilyra's mind, but it is out of the light currently, which may make things challenging.

(1d20+33)[*45*] Spellcraft:  Does Eilyra have any ideas on temporarily shutting down the portal, via skill?
(1d20+31)[*34*] Know:  Planes(Same question.)

Eilyra has Dimensional Anchor prepared, which wouldn't stop a portal, but she also has Dimensional Lock, which would absolutely stop a portal.  It may or may not permanently break the gate, but probably not.  Absent a better idea from knowledge checks, that is currently the plan(Drop the Dimensional Lock.  That creates 44 days of lolnope for extradimensional travel, which should meet our needs.)

----------


## Cavir

> Closing it is absolutely on Eilyra's mind, but it is out of the light currently, which may make things challenging.


Trying to take out the altar is in the hopes of eliminating the area effects we're dealing with.
Probably should have checked with kinem first through some Wisdom or Know(Religion) checks. Avakuss's WIS 28 is far above normal mortals.

----------


## Toliudar

That makes good sense to me. If we discover that we need to know more about where the altar leads, we can always dispel the lock.

----------


## Archmage1

*Looks at Eilyra's wisdom*
8

Are you trying to say something?   :Small Tongue: 

And absent a better idea, dimensional lock should block the portal without disrupting effects.  We can then identify things, and go from there.(Well, ok, in the freezing cold)

Breaking the alter is a pretty good plan B.  :)
(Plan B, because we might be able to do something fun with the Alter via plan A.  We could desecrate the alter, which might get us something?  We do have an Ur-Priest...)

Well, unless we want to try accepting the offers of the spirit thing, and drawing power from the prison, which could never backfire horribly, it promises!

----------


## paradox26

> I don't think the -5 applies to damage rolls:  Just d20 rolls.  
> 
> I think Taric is the one saving us here.  Those level drains are nasty.


It is about time Taric was able to do something useful. He has been of little help so far in the adventure.

----------


## kinem

> It is about time Taric was able to do something useful. He has been of little help so far in the adventure.


There really haven't been that many challenging combat encounters so far in the adventure.

Anyway, suffice it to say that he should have plenty of opportunities ahead to contribute.

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note, is there space in the campaign for down time?(For things like crafting, scribing scrolls, miracling things together, training...)

----------


## kinem

There could potentially be downtime.

----------


## kinem

OK, I'll post IC tomorrow. Sorry for the delay. The Black Cyst was dropped, but new monsters are on the way.

----------


## Archmage1

:Small Smile:   Excellent!  1 down, many to go?

----------


## paradox26

That is great news. I was thinking of asking if I could rebuild the character to make him useful, but if that is going to happen in future encounters anyway, I am satisfied with keeping the character the same, because I quite like him.

Edit: Also, with the Black Cyst dead, are we still being affected by the -5 to all rolls?

----------


## Archmage1

Is the glowing circle still glowing?

----------


## kinem

The Black Cyst is down but not dead; however its not the source of the -5 penalty. The enemies are not taking the penalty, so its possible that some unseen and not very tangible entity has it in for the party 🙀

The portal is still glowing and acts as a light source like the torch.

----------


## Archmage1

On another note...

(Note:  Know:  Dungeoneering is a mere 14)
(1d20+39)[*55*] Know:  Nature(The Troll?  If it is another knowledge, most of them are 36)
(1d20+36)[*54*] Know:  Arcana(The strange elemental?  Again, if another knowledge, most are 36.)

Edit:  I can roll for the disintegrate, but she will automatically pass the SR, and as it is 0, the disintegrate kills it regardless of whether it saves or not, and regardless of damage.

----------


## Cavir

> This twisted troll-like monster casts shield on itself as a quickened SLA, then attacks Avakuss!
> Attack (1d20+35)[*55*], damage (2d8+17)[*23*]; grapple (1d20+40)[*52*]
> Attack (1d20+35)[*51*], damage (2d8+17)[*25*]; grapple (1d20+40)[*53*]
> Attack (1d20+35)[*51*], damage (2d8+17)[*23*]; grapple (1d20+40)[*45*]
> Attack (1d20+35)[36], damage (2d8+17)[28]; grapple (1d20+40)[49]
> Attack (1d20+35)[44], damage (2d8+17)[24]; grapple (1d20+40)[50]
> If it hits, it attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking AOO.
> If 2 or more attacks hit, it rends for an additional (4d8+25)[43] damage.
> 
> ...


I cast Precognition, Defensive earlier but didn't update the top part of my sheet. AC is up to 54 (calculation is under Spells on my sheet). The first hit threatens a crit but does not confirm. 23 damage taken if Displacement cloak fails again (low is good) (1d100)[*6*].

Grapple check (1d20+30)[*49*]  (+15 Bab, +12 str, +4 size, +4 Imp Grapple, -5 penalty) vs DC 52.  Auto fail if Displacement doesn't protect me.
If I lose I'm grappled and it gets to do unarmed strike damage to me.
If I win I'm not grappled and its party time  :Small Cool: 

For future reference, if I do get grappled after the first attack then the other attacks would not happen right?

I'm planning on using Expansion. 
If not Grappled I'll just do a 5' move SW to have space for it.
If I am Grappled, it has to move into my space. I can manifest the spell with an Concentration check I can't fail. I presume I grow to my intended size sharing space with the troll? Can I grow in size while grappled during Temporal Acceleration? (with the thought of growing and maybe acting another power like Temporal Acceleration since there are do many tentacles around.)

I have the tentacles from Form of Doom. Do they grow a size when I do?

Does the rock creature seem to have damage from my sonic blast?

Sorry for so many Q's.




> Breaking the alter is a pretty good plan B. :)


If Ash's spell fails I think that is getting upgraded to plan A  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## kinem

Altered altar 'effective Will save': (1d20+27)[*28*] vs DC 32

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show


The troll-like creature is a pseudonatural troll. Since it's a templated creature, I'll go with PF's rule of 10+CR as the minimum; in the case that's 31.

It looks like you forgot to include the -5 penalty, but that's still a 47 on a Knowledge (planes) check. I'll say you can basically look it up  :Small Cool: 

For Knowledge (planes) 49 on the elemental:
Knowledge (the Planes) DC Result
18 This strange, rocky creature is obviously an elemental. This result reveals all elemental traits and the earth subtype.
28 This creature is a black rock triskelion, a servant of Ogremoch, Prince of Evil Earth Elementals. Its rocky body reduces damage from physical attacks.
33 A black rock triskelions fearsome arms strike like heavy picks and can penetrate even adamantine to
deal devastating damage.
38 Triskelions are incredibly durable and can resist spells and magical effects with their innate toughness rather than reflexes.


The Disintegrate spell in 3.5 (unlike in 3.0) inflicts damage and only disintegrates if it reduces the target's hp below 0. Against a creature with regeneration, like the Black Cyst, all the spell can do is inflict nonlethal damage. The Black Cyst has taken no hit point damage, but its nonlethal damage exceeds its hit points, making it unconscious. The party does have a way to kill it, by inflicting at least as many negative levels as it has HD.

Cavir: If it grappled you, it would still make the other attacks. Looks like your cloak came in handy though.

The tentacles grow in size to match your reach but the base 2d8 damage remains the same regardless.

The rock creature does not seem to be damaged. (The sonic blast triggered the transformation though.)

----------


## Archmage1

That is a bit sad, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it does make that sort of twisted sense RAW sometimes does.  On the bright side, there is a pretty solid IC reason to not know:  After all, she does predate 3.5.  And in 3(And earlier editions) disintegrate would have worked. :P

In that case, I think rolling damage does matter, because if it has regeneration, it can get back up.

Fort, DC 28 to take (5d6)[*16*] nonlethal damage
or (40d6)[*155*] damage

----------


## Cavir

> This is the Astral Plane, so you can Quicken one spell/round, no DMM needed


Does that go for psionics too? That'd change things, like saving 6PP last round.

----------


## kinem

Yes.

Enhanced magic: All spells and psionic or spell-like abilities used within the Astral Plane may be employed as if they were improved by the Quicken Spell feat. Already quickened spells and spell-like abilities are unaffected, as are spells from magic items. Spells so quickened are still prepared and cast at their unmodified level. As with the Quicken Spell feat, only one quickened spell can be cast per round.

----------


## Archmage1

Since getting hit by the troll is not going to end well for Eilyra, time to see about noping that:

(1d9)[*4*] Greater Mirror Image(Troll hits on a 9 only)

----------


## Cavir

Now charm the troll too and get them to fight each other  :Small Cool: 

My bracers allow me to do things like a bonus to my flurry attack or get a free AoO when enemy misses me in melee (which just happened) but those are swift/immediate so if I use those I can't use a quickened spell. Combat Reflexes won't help with taking an AoO and using a swift to cast right?

My post includes 10 attacks plus my swift/immediate so I won't get to post that until tonight. Avakuss will suggest to everyone to back away so that Rocky and Avakuss can continue the melee (getting into flaking with each other), casters can hit from afar, and Taric can finish off the cyst. It'd also be good to give me space to use a cone attack. Trolls don't like fire right? :)

----------


## Archmage1

Trolls do indeed not like fire, or acid.   :Small Smile: 

You might be overestimating Eilyra's ability to handle SR 35 with her spells, but with the glowing circle providing light, she can store the torch instead of her sword, which gives her quite a few options.

----------


## Cavir

Staying alive and not grappled is a good plan too. The incense could be put on the ground. 

Another question... is the troll grappling the elemental? If the troll is grappling anyone that will affect it's other attacks right?
Probably best to make it clear who is and who isn't grappled before more actions are made. I'd guess the elemental and Center are, which would make it hard for Avakuss blasting the troll with fire if they are in the same space (last part of grapple).

----------


## Archmage1

She does have gloves of storing, and the torch is probably one item.  She can unstore her sword, and store the torch.  It is, in theory, in stasis, which might preserve the incense burning time, on the other hand, it doesn't suppress spell durations, so I don't really know.

Eilyra also has a flaming sword, which can handle troll regeneration.  As a bonus, she can use a coup de grace action once the troll is down.

----------


## kinem

The trolls improved grab actually only applies to opponents smaller than it, so size M or less. The elemental is size L, as is Center though the map doesnt show it.

----------


## Cavir

Ah, so Center, the elemental, and Avakuss don't have to worry about the grapple rolls.
Eilyra used Greater Mirror Image.
That leaves Taric on the question of grappled or not. Even if he is at leastwe can blast the troll over his head.

----------


## Archmage1

AC is going to be... interesting.  Avakuss, I think, can boost his AC fairly well.  Eilyra can boost hers by a total of 4 beyond where it is now, to a 54(+2 expeditious dodge, +2 eyes of the oracle)(She does need to use shield to boost hers by 9, but that's a swift action, and is generally going to be a very high priority to cast in combats, and it lasts 44 minutes.).

Ash can probably get by not needing AC(And hers isn't bad either.  Go wisdom based casters for ease of boosting AC?).  She also has the cloak of cheese(Starmantle cloak), which gives her a reflex save DC 15 to take half damage.  Adding in evasion basically makes her immune to attacks.

Taric, however, is quite vulnerable.  A minor cloak of displacement might be quite helpful.  We could do defending/parrying armor spike cheese for a +5?  Eilyra could prepare displacement, and use it, which might help(Round per level, so even extended less than 5 minutes)?

----------


## Cavir

I was thinking more have Taric finish off the cyst with level drains (one round of hits should do it) while the elemental and Avakuss keep it busy in melee. Everyone else can be out of range of those nasty green tentacles.

Avakuss has a dorje with Force Screen for another +4 AC but that eats up an action.

----------


## Archmage1

That is not a bad plan.  Taric's attack isn't high enough to reliably hit AC 46, which, well... is probably the AC of the troll(I seem to remember kinem mentioning it was a 55, which means it is a buffed psuedonatural troll, but assuming it fails the save vs blind, it gets -9 to AC from dex and the -2 effect).  That -5 is pretty crippling.

And the dimensional lock didn't affect it at all, which is interesting.

----------


## kinem

The troll had cast Shield, hence it had AC 55.

I think Taric's Grapple bonus is +27. His sheet is incorrect.

Evasion doesn't work with Starmantle. RAW is debatable (depends on the definition of 'normal'), but that's certainly how I run it.

It probably would be a good idea to increase Taric's defenses to better match the rest of the party. His attacks are potentially devastating against most opponents. It's a bit of a challenge to properly challenge this party  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

We have Taric and Avakuss to hit things, Ash to do the clericking, Eilyra to handle the wizarding, and to pretend to hit things, and Center to provide moral support!

What more could we need?

(Ok, there is rogueing and talking, but that's what fists are for, right?)

Retroactive skill points would be nice.  Or at least not getting the books at 20th level. :P

----------


## Cavir

> We have Taric and Avakuss to hit things,


SURE.... curse me! 20 attacks and zero hits.

Time for plan C.

----------


## paradox26

> The Black Cyst is down but not dead; however its not the source of the -5 penalty. The enemies are not taking the penalty, so its possible that some unseen and not very tangible entity has it in for the party 🙀
> 
> The portal is still glowing and acts as a light source like the torch.


That was what I suspected.



> My post includes 10 attacks plus my swift/immediate so I won't get to post that until tonight. Avakuss will suggest to everyone to back away so that Rocky and Avakuss can continue the melee (getting into flaking with each other), casters can hit from afar, and Taric can finish off the cyst. It'd also be good to give me space to use a cone attack. Trolls don't like fire right? :)


I will do that then. Unfortunately, Taric got hit by that attack. He is kind of vulnerable, as I didn't build to the same power level as everyone else appears to have done. Sorry, I didn't notice my sheet hadn't automatically added his strength bonus to his Grapple bonus.

(1d20+27)[*35*] Grapple check.

----------


## Archmage1

I... wouldn't agree with that, to be honest.  Taric's main weakness is that he put most of his wealth into his swords.

On the other hand, those swords are very, very effective.

He is also 2 levels behind Ash and Avakuss, and 1 behind Eilyra, which does make a difference too.

----------


## kinem

I believe Taric's Grapple check above is missing the -5, but it didn't succeed, regardless.

That was just a check to resist the initial grapple though. Taric still gets to act this round; however I will go ahead and have Center act first, as his actions will help out Taric.

----------


## Cavir

Heal and Freedom of Movement for Taric, nice :)

----------


## Toliudar

Yep.  Pretty much the perfect combo for this situation.

----------


## Archmage1

Which gives Taric a much better opportunity to do something.

Psuedonatural trolls:  "Well, we're just going to give them a +15 to attack for fun."

----------


## Archmage1

Paradox, you do know it is your turn, right?

----------


## paradox26

Sorry about that. I have been busy the last few days, and didn't check in because I thought I was grappled and therefore out of the combat.

Also, as far as my weapons go, only one of them was expensive, but it was very expensive. I have a class ability that duplicates the effects of my weapon onto my other weapon. So I now have a pair of Souldrinkers, effectively. I still think my character is pretty one dimensional, as even offensively, where he shines, he is useless against undead, constructs, swarms (as I have now discovered), and anything else that is immune to level drain. But against anything that is subject to level drain, yes, I concede that he is extremely effective.

----------


## Archmage1

Souldrinker is a very powerful enchantment.  A 9th level spell on hit?  Anything you hit is going to be fairly solidly crippled by a 2d4 penalty to basically everything it does.  The down side is that 400k gold spent on it, the rest of us spent on books of +4-5 of stats.  On the bright side, saving for a 100k purchase is a lot simpler than getting a new weapon.

And if you are dual-wielding, dualblade is a pretty solid class.  Since it gives you all the twf feats, you can dump dex.  The departure points are likely 11 or 18(The tree of twf feats finishing, or match magic weapons).  It helps with the subpar damage via sneak attack, and avoids the flurry of misses that is rogue twf.

The SLA's are pretty solid as well.

The problem it runs into is utility, but, well... I've always been of the opinion that you can make your utility, but at high levels, that sort of falls apart a bit.(Magic reaches the "I can solve all problems" stage).  What do you see Taric doing outside of combat?  I don't mean just mechanically:  Does he carve wood?  Smith things?  Something else?(Drown out the sorrows via alcohol?)
(For reference, Eilyra's answer to that question is likely scribing scrolls for the future, along with being edgy and depressing(AKA trying to reclaim her rightful place in society))

----------


## Toliudar

Kinem, did I miss something? Does Ash have any idea how the elemental shook off the dominate effect?

----------


## paradox26

I see Taric as being an inept wood carver. He carves little trinkets for his children. Poorly, but it brings him pleasure, and he always strives to get better. I will put ranks into it as he levels up, I think. I usually add in some craft ranks on my characters, but I didn't have as many skill points available as normal with this character.

----------


## Cavir

> Kinem, did I miss something? Does Ash have any idea how the elemental shook off the dominate effect?


You may just be asking about an IC point of view, but just in case:



> It appears that attacking the Black Cyst goes against the elemental's nature, perhaps a recognition that the creature serves its true master, so it tries to resist:
> [*46*] vs Will DC 32


Crazy idea:



> Rage of the Remorhaz: Your skin pulses, generating a heat so intense that anything touching your body takes 4d6 points of fire damage. Creatures striking you with natural attacks or unarmed attacks are subject to this damage as well. Creatures striking with melee weapons do not take damage from your heat, but their weapons do take damage.


Can I just go for touch attacks to inflict fire damage? Otherwise it's grappling time.

We're using the nerfed CPSi version of Empathic Transfer, Hostile where the damage/healing is cut in half right? I need to take damage without being healed before using it.

----------


## Archmage1

An effective -8 to attacks, and a -5 to spell penetration is quite nasty.

On the bright side, I think Eilyra landed four hits?  AC 55, Dex +7, so blind drops that down to a 46.

(1d20+33)[*51*] Crit confirm(Attack 3)
(1d10+17)[*20*] Extra damage?

(1d20+43)[*54*] Crit confirm(Attack 5)
(1d10+17)[*24*] Extra damage?

I... think 235 damage does it?  If it dies(Because fire), transfer further attacks to the animated altar?  She might not have very good base damage, but she can hit pretty well.

(Also, Arcane strike for a +9 to attack was a decent use of a 9th level spell slot)

----------


## Toliudar

Thanks, Cavir!

----------


## Archmage1

Darkfire:  Call lightning's seriously upgraded buddy.

----------


## kinem

I will have limited internet access over the next 3 days.

----------


## Archmage1

Redirect, yes(Provided the attack that brings it down applies at least 15 overkill damage), but shouldn't the bonus fire damage be enough to... wow... ok, I have been playing too much pathfinder.

3.5's regenerate is much, much stronger than pathfinder's regenerate.  You need to either do ALL the damage as the vulnerable element, or a coup de grace with something that does damage of the appropriate type.  I'm not even sure if a flaming weapon would qualify there, because the weapon damage would be converted to nonlethal damage, which would make it ineligible.

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss: 41 attacks since entering the temple and still not a single Nat20  :Small Furious: 
They may be immune to crits but geez, Nuffle is being quite stingy!
Granted no Nat1's either, making it more bizarre.

Still wondering about the touch attacks with Rage of the Remorhaz.

----------


## kinem

> Still wondering about the touch attacks with Rage of the Remorhaz.


No; my interpretation is that it's meant to be defensive, not offensive.

----------


## Archmage1

So... about that portal.

Is it still glowing?  Does Eilyra have any idea if it is the gate mentioned in the books?  If so, does she have any ideas for interacting with it?  (Said interaction could take the form of draining power from the portal, depending on side effects, breaking the connection, assessing the existence of other connections, or closing the connection)

(-5 penalty included)

(1d20+31)[*51*] Know: Planes
(1d20+31)[*34*] Know:  Arcana
(1d20+33)[*46*] Spellcraft

----------


## kinem

> So... about that portal.
> 
> Is it still glowing?


Yes.




> Does Eilyra have any idea if it is the gate mentioned in the books?


It almost certainly is.




> If so, does she have any ideas for interacting with it?  (Said interaction could take the form of draining power from the portal, depending on side effects, breaking the connection, assessing the existence of other connections, or closing the connection)


No.

----------


## Toliudar

Paradox, can you give me some (IC or OOC) sense of how hurt Taric is, so I have a sense of whether I'm tapping you with a wand or unloading a Heal on you?

----------


## paradox26

Sure. I just had to go back and calculate the damage from that last round. Taric has taken 66 points of damage during the battle. Serious but not fatal.

----------


## Archmage1

Apart from seeing the harbinger, is anything else changed about the glowing circle and the ruined altar?

----------


## Toliudar

> Sure. I just had to go back and calculate the damage from that last round. Taric has taken 66 points of damage during the battle. Serious but not fatal.


Got it!  Then if you're okay, I'll wait to take care of the damage until we're clear of the constant damage from the cavern.

----------


## kinem

> Apart from seeing the harbinger, is anything else changed about the glowing circle and the ruined altar?


As far as you can tell, there is not.

----------


## paradox26

> Got it!  Then if you're okay, I'll wait to take care of the damage until we're clear of the constant damage from the cavern.


That is absolutely fine. Taric is protected from the cold with a robe, so he will stay in case he is needed while the others leave.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra currently has 43 temp hp that will be expiring in an hour, so might as well use those, before we withdraw to examine the mirror, and consider our options with regard to the portal.

The good news is that we have over a month with the portal locked down.

----------


## kinem

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ash is looking at the mirror, yes?

Sounds like it's time for a DC 23 Will save (with the -5 penalty still applying) ...

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

As for the rod, you just confirm what you found before. It's no longer so cold; that was due to the 'cold' in the dark cavern.

----------


## Archmage1

I don't think she's uncovering it at this time:  She's just examining, well... the not actually mirror bit.

----------


## Toliudar

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ash is looking at the mirror, yes?
> 
> Sounds like it's time for a DC 23 Will save (with the -5 penalty still applying) ...
> 
> *Spoiler: Eilyra*
> Show
> 
> As for the rod, you just confirm what you found before. It's no longer so cold; that was due to the 'cold' in the dark cavern.


At this point, Ash hasn't even touched the mirror, let alone uncover it.  I was waiting for responses to inquiries included in her IC actions before doing either.

Also, I thought the -5 only applied while we were in the area of darkness.  Is it continuing to affect us even outside of that area?  If so, that's another good reason to get out of this area as soon as we're sure we're done.

----------


## kinem

> At this point, Ash hasn't even touched the mirror, let alone uncover it.  I was waiting for responses to inquiries included in her IC actions before doing either.
> 
> "Then, holding a crystal loupe in front of her left eye, Ash conducted a thorough examination of the mirror."


OK ... just sounded to me like she did  :Small Big Grin: 

In order to examine the mirror with a monocle or the like, it would be necessary to take the risk.




> Also, I thought the -5 only applied while we were in the area of darkness.  Is it continuing to affect us even outside of that area?  If so, that's another good reason to get out of this area as soon as we're sure we're done.


It is continuing to affect the party. It did seem to start somewhat close to the same time the party was entering the darkness (as well as spurning the offers of a certain intangible entity and vandalizing the place by disintegrating the door).

----------


## Toliudar

> OK ... just sounded to me like she did 
> 
> In order to examine the mirror with a monocle or the like, it would be necessary to take the risk.


The loupe is an Artificer's Monocle. If you rule that touch is required, she'll touch the back of the mirror without unwrapping the front.  If nothing can be gained without revealing the mirror portion, I guess she'll stop, report, wait until we're clear of the -5 effect to continue.

----------


## kinem

A monocle is a lens. You need to look through it at the object in order to use it. And in this case, looking at the back of the mirror doesn't really help.

----------


## Toliudar

Perfect.  That's exactly the clarification that I needed.  Then I'd definitely prefer to wait until we're clear of the -5 effect to lift the veil, so to speak.

----------


## Cavir

We could step back outside the complex, while still being in the astral plane.

----------


## Toliudar

We definitely could.  I guess we'll need to wait and see what we have to do to move outside the influence of this effect.

----------


## Archmage1

...
You know...

Can we use a pearl of power as the pearl for identify?  Sure, they're worth more, but they are pearls...

Right, derp.  Thinking 5e, where the pearl is not consumed.  3.5 doesn't like it when people have nice things.

----------


## Toliudar

> We could step back outside the complex, while still being in the astral plane.


We could.  I thought you wanted to investigate something IN the complex, though.

----------


## Archmage1

As a side note:  We can plane shift to Bavia.
Getting back to Sigil would take 2 spells, if we are lucky(Plane shift to Pandemonium, Greater Teleport to the portal we know of)

More critically, Plane shift is not a precision spell.  5-500 mile inaccuracy.  We might be able to utilize scrying, then greater teleport to reach our target, but I'd be surprised if that worked, honestly(Too many ways to block scrying).

So that puts us, on average, ~250 miles of travel out, and Eilyra, at least, doesn't have a good way to make that go faster.  And I have a memory that the country is rather war torn, and we're likely to stick out like a sore thumb.  Sure, we can probably slaughter anyone that gets in our way, but they will know we are coming.

More information might be highly helpful in reducing that time, or finding an alternative that gets us much closer.(For example, if we were to find exactly where they are, and get an accurate picture, we can skip the unreliable scrying step of getting there.)

Also, Eilyra really wants to get a miracled cloak of Cha +6, and to finish scribing ruin delvers' fortune, because +6 to a save as an immediate action is lifesaving.

----------


## Toliudar

That all makes sense (although I'm not sure how us killing people who randomly target us in Bavia leads to the avatarist hundreds of miles away knowing that we're coming). 

Ash has been limited in her ability to do some divination on the avatarist while we were in Sigil, but this gets easier once we're on the same plane as him/her.  Scrying, divinations, etc, all with the prospect of greater teleporting to the avatarist's location when we're ready. If we rest in Bavia and teleport after that, it means that Ash has the opportunity to Miracle up that +6 cloak. 

In my opinion, taking 4 days off from the adventure to craft the Ruin Delver's Fortune Item seems like a major derailment from our work on what seems like a time-sensitive issue.

----------


## Archmage1

Less us killing them, and more us not killing everything that sees us.  Far, far too likely to start rumors, get identified by governments, who may inform their powerful minions.  Not certain, but...

My primary concern about the divination is that, well... if they don't have divination blocking effects up, I'd be very surprised.  But it is certainly worth trying.

If we took time off, it would require 38 hours total(30 hours of scribing, 8 hours to rest after not sleeping for 30 hours) to scribe the spell.

If there are limits on resting(Like, say, 1 rest per day, to avoid the fifteen minute adventuring day), that can account for quite a lot of the scribing time.

----------


## Toliudar

Remember that avatarists aren't spellcasters, and they're minionmancers (spreading their theoretical wealth around even further), while the avatarist might have (for instance) mind blank, it's by no means a given. 

If you don't mind scribing during the down periods of adventuring days, rather than all in one chunk, that that seems MUCH more workable to me.

----------


## Archmage1

Scribing during down times is always the plan, it's just that we haven't had any yet which is somewhat concerning.

The Lich, on the other hand... I'm expecting something like Mage's Private Sanctum.

(If we spend a couple of hours a day adventuring, another couple doing things, that would leave 12 hours of scribing per day, assuming 1 8 hour rest per day.)

----------


## Toliudar

Sounds good to me.  

the Private Sanctum is a good point. But if we can get to the avatarist first, we have a reasonable chance to get better intel on the lich.

----------


## Archmage1

Maybe, but... as a duo, especially as the Avatarist has static spells... they worked together quite well.  Well enough that I'd be unsurprised to find the Lich's Phylactery is located near the Avatarist's real body.

Still, we may have some more exploring around Pandemonium, and another discussion with Rule(Which will probably be delayed, as Rule was rather... peeved with us.).

I do think we're still good for another few fights, at least if they are less... resistant than the last one was.

Speaking of...

Kinem, were we able to gain any XP from our ooze friend, our troll friend, and our altar friend?   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Toliudar

If we can confront the avatarist in person, the synergy with the lich goes way down - assuming that they are in fact humanoid.

----------


## Archmage1

That it does.

----------


## kinem

> Kinem, were we able to gain any XP from our ooze friend, our troll friend, and our altar friend?


Total xp: for Level 19: 5700; 20: 4000; 21: 2940.

----------


## Archmage1

Thank you, Kinem.  
And... re-reading, I realized that I had failed to respond to the second half of Taric's excellent thoughts, which has now been edited in.

----------


## Archmage1

Should we assume that Ash is relaying information to us?

----------


## Toliudar

Crap - I wrote that.  Did it not post correctly?  I'll go add it in.

----------


## Archmage1

Er... if Ash is safe, is it just knowing how to use it that protects her?  Or something else?(It might be simpler for me to read the spoiler, but... spoilers)

----------


## Toliudar

It's never been clear to me how one becomes the 'owner' of a magic item. My assumption is that, if Ash has made safe contact with the mirror and knows the passwords, so to speak, she's effectively the owner.  Does this make sense to you, Kinem.

I can't see any mechanism for turning the soul-sucking property on and off.  It must be possible for the owner to look into the mirror, or else they wouldn't be able to use it to converse with occupants. But I'm not sure how others can join the conversation safely.

----------


## Archmage1

That... sounds suspiciously like even with the command words, it isn't safe for the owner to use.

----------


## Toliudar

I certainly don't think that we should be using it recreationally, anyway.  :Small Wink:

----------


## Archmage1

I mean... haven't you ever felt like taking off all that equipment is just too time consuming?  With the help of a trusted friend, the mirror takes care of all that for you!(Alternatively, a magic mouth could probably do it).

----------


## kinem

> Mirror of Life Trapping: This crystal device is usually about 4 feet square and framed in metal or wood. It can be hung or placed on a surface and then activated by giving a command word. *The same command word deactivates the mirror.* A mirror of life trapping has fifteen nonspatial extradimensional compartments within it. Any creature coming within 30 feet of the device and looking at its own reflection must make a DC 23 Will save or be trapped within the mirror in one of the cells. A creature not aware of the nature of the device always sees its own reflection. The probability of a creature seeing its reflection, and thus needing to make the saving throw, drops to 50% if the creature is aware that the mirror traps life and seeks to avoid looking at it (treat as a gaze attack).
> 
> When a creature is trapped, it is taken bodily into the mirror. Size is not a factor, but constructs and undead are not trapped, nor are inanimate objects and other nonliving matter. A victims equipment (including clothing and anything being carried) remains behind. If the mirrors owner knows the right command word, he can call the reflection of any creature trapped within to its surface and engage his powerless prisoner in conversation. Another command word frees the trapped creature. Each pair of command words is specific to each prisoner.
> 
> If the mirrors capacity is exceeded, one victim (determined randomly) is set free in order to accommodate the latest one. If the mirror is broken, all victims currently trapped in it are freed.
> 
> Strong abjuration; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, imprisonment; Price 200,000 gp;Weight 50 lb.


My interpretation is that if you speak the command word to deactivate the mirror, it will become safe to interact with. It's not clear that a "deactivated" mirror can still be commanded to show or release a prisoner without first being activated, but I would say that it can.

The reference to an "owner" of the mirror is just fluff and has no mechanical effect.

----------


## Toliudar

Sounds good.  Altering my IC post with this understanding.

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+17)[*29*] Fortitude vs deafened.  

And Eilyra does have a necklace of adaption for a reason.  That reason does include that she doesn't want to breathe the horrible, plebian excuse for air in Sigil.   :Small Big Grin: 

Post... will probably be tomorrow.

As far as goals:  Check with RoT, consider selling the rod, examine the mirror, and then figure out what next?

----------


## Cavir

Fort DC 15 or be deafened.
(1d20+35)[*50*]

Whats the rod of again? I remember us getting it.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash fort save vs deafen: (1d20+20)[*32*]
Fate of One, cast if the fort save fails: (1d20+20)[*25*]

----------


## paradox26

Fort Save versus being deafened: (1d20+25)[*33*]

----------


## Archmage1

It is a rod of force:  It allow casting some combination of the following effects five times(Duration based abilities last 10 rounds)
Orb of force(Touch attack, 10d6 damage)
Wall of force
Blade of force(+1 brilliant energy longsword)

----------


## Archmage1

I'm not sure what three keen means in this context.  Is that intended?

----------


## kinem

Its the name of the drink.

----------


## Archmage1

Ah!  I thought it might have been the price, and I was trying to figure out what keen translated to.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

Toliudar: The plane with the ruins and insects appeared to be the Outlands. Is Ash intentionally misleading Rule on that? Fine if so, but I just want to check if it is intended.

----------


## Toliudar

No, that's my faulty memory.   She's not lying to him, but is deliberately omitting 'works in progress' like the mirror and the rod.  I'll fix her IC post.

----------


## Archmage1

And Eilyra... is just continuing to drink her drink.

Although...

Does anyone seem to be excessively interested in the party's actions?
(1d20+19)[*21*] Spot
OR
(1d20+1)[*5*] Sense Motive(For some strange reason, I think you can guess which of these I hope you allow me to use)

----------


## kinem

As far as Eilyra can tell, the other patrons are not paying undue attention to your group. Many are gambling. There is a mezzoloth that is frequently glancing around at everything as if paranoid, but doesnt seem to be interested in you in particular.

----------


## kinem

I hope Rules reply didnt get overlooked with the new IC page.

Whats the the plan now?

----------


## Archmage1

Elyria was going to finish her drink, before suggesting that we go elsewhere to do some combination of reading, seeking information about bavia, talk about the rod, examine the mirror and scroll scribing. But... I was waiting for someone else to speak first.

----------


## Archmage1

This time, Eilyra is deliberately ignoring Taric, as she is not fond of Rule.

----------


## Toliudar

Is there any desired information seeking that's tied to being in Sigil? Maybe we could do that now, and then leave. 

I'd love to make the leap to Bavia so that Ash can make better use of her divinations.  I'm fine with setting up a safe haven there, but I've done about as much as I can here.  But scroll-making etc can just as easily happen elsewhere, yes?

----------


## Archmage1

That is certainly an option.  I covered what I thought our options were earlier, but, as I see it...

Reading the remaining books from the library(Exhausts Eilyra's spells for the day  If we are doing this, Eilyra is NOT going to be doing any other adventuring, or leaving her mansion for any reason)
Seeking information about Bavia(After all, there are other information brokers)
Determine who gets the Rod, or sell it(Discuss future plans)
Interrogate the individuals in the mirror, consider freeing them(Astral plane for this)
Scroll Scribing(Mostly a downtime activity.)
Bavia spellcasting(Ash Scrying(And Eilyra, I suppose, since she can as well))(Then, we can consider the die portion of scry and die).

----------


## Archmage1

I don't remember encountering anyone else familiar with Bavia. Who am I failing to remember?

----------


## kinem

The Mercane.

----------


## Archmage1

It... probably says something that Eilyra predates Netheril in FR lore.
(As in:  She was imprisoned before Netheril was ever a thing.  And released long after it fell.)  She was born around -4600 DR, and imprisoned shortly before the Seven Citadel's War started in -4500 DR)

----------


## Toliudar

She and Centre can definitely be the elder statespeople of the group.

----------


## Archmage1

On that note, was there any mention of such an artifact in the books Eilyra read, or other lore she might know?

(1d20+36)[*52*](Planes, Religion, local, arcana)

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

You recall something that might be relevant: Joel sent Edigaria to investigate a destroyed temple of the cult on the Prime, and he said that the cultists may have come close to releasing their god before being defeated. Some of the cultists made their way to Sigil and they knew about the portal to Pandemonium, although apparently they did not know what to do once they got there.

----------


## Archmage1

I thought there were six creatures trapped?  With Antis, that's three.  Interesting.

----------


## kinem

Oops, thats my bad. I originally was going to have six, then realized that it wasnt worth the extra time it would take in a PBP game to deal with the others, who were really just random victims of the mirror.

----------


## Archmage1

Well... that is concerning.

Is Antis the artifact the other fellow was referring to?

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Avakuss*
Show

Antis does not currently seem to be lying.

----------


## Archmage1

Ah, Antis.  Poor, mindbroken Antis.  Maybe a heal would help, but...

I think setting what might well BE the artifact free is a bad idea.  And Pilo, well... Pilo, I think, is a being we can't trust.

Not sure if we really want to free the third guy either:  He doesn't seem to know anything useful, or have any useful skills.(Note:  I am speaking from the perspective of an evil character.  OOC, my view is basically why not.)

----------


## Toliudar

I'm perfectly fine with leaving them all in there and waiting to see if they might become essential later.

----------


## Archmage1

The real question:

Is anyone proficient/skilled in survival related skills, such as butchering an animal and cooking it into an edible meal?  We could save greatly on rations!   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Toliudar

It's those bugs, right?  You're eager to try eating those bugs.

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss still has a dead spider, hoping someone could ID it.

----------


## Archmage1

Sure, we can go with the bugs.  Those would work.

----------


## Archmage1

Happy Holidays!   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

> Happy Holidays!


Same to all.

----------


## Archmage1

Is it safe to assume that Eilyra is decently familiar with the Sensates as an organization?

----------


## kinem

She would know about the Factions, or rather how they used to be

----------


## Archmage1

Does anyone else have something to add, or should I provide a move along statement, after the explanation bit?

----------


## Cavir

Ash volunteered to do it. That works for me.
Avakuss does want to release Hesum. He can handle that during scroll work or book reading.

----------


## kinem

Happy New Year to all.

I know that everyone's been busy with the holidays. Hopefully we can get the game moving along a bit faster once things get back to ... I won't call it 'normal'  :Small Eek: , but non-holiday stuff  :Small Big Grin: 

Interviewing the mirror's prisoners resulted in some characters doing most of the talking. Hopefully it didn't drag on too long for the others.

I don't think that roleplaying among the Sensates would be as imbalanced, but let me know if you would prefer a certain type of play, or if you have any other comments or preferences.

----------


## Toliudar

> Ash volunteered to do it. That works for me.
> Avakuss does want to release Hesum. He can handle that during scroll work or book reading.


Ash volunteered to tell stories.  If we want to RP out something at the Sensates, I'm open to that, but am not offering a carte blanche to crack open Ash's head.

 But I'm not really sure the point of trying to learn something about a whole world just because one of our targets is currently there.  It would make more sense to me to try to learn more about the plane where we think the lock-device was taken.

----------


## Archmage1

Ideally, the avatarist and lich will show up in the history, and give us enough information to teleport there.  

So, taskings?  Ash, Taric?  Sensates, to seek information
Avakuss:  Consider freeing the first prisoner.
Eilyra:  Scroll Scribing?

----------


## Toliudar

Any chance we could refocus the Sensate conversation on the plane where we think that the device is?  I can't remember which of the lower planes we think it's been taken to.  I'd rather research the politics in a place where the major players are more likely to be a factor in how we proceed.

I'm doubly leery of trying to get information about the Lich and Avatarist this way because we know so little about them that it's hard to ask questions about them.

----------


## Archmage1

I mean... I think the plan is for Ash to lead things there?  So... it would be up to her?

I don't think we know where the thing is currently, only that it was stolen, and probably by... I want to say a demon lord who's name starts with a G.  A skulk was involved, but finding one of those is decidedly non-trivial.

For the Lich, I'm more interested in finding out more about Bavia.  If we can identify where in Bavia they might be found, and find an image, or a good description of it, Eilyra can teleport us there, because walking is for people who don't have access to greater teleport.

----------


## Toliudar

I've been going back through the IC thread, but can't find what I'm looking for.  I have a recollection of some sense that the mcguffin that we think that the key opens/activates/whatever was stolen by some big bad from the lower planes, so a reasonable guess for its location would be that creature's home plane.  I thought I might try to research that leader and that plane, while we wait for Centre. Kinem, could I impose on you for a reminder? 

Once we're out of Sigil, it'll be much easier for Ash to investigate.

----------


## Archmage1

From what I remember, Center was the guardian of the mcguffin.  It got stolen by a Gloom(Based on Center's description).

We have speculated that the theft was done at the hands of Thrazimundar's cult, but we don't have any actual evidence of that thus far.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...5&postcount=29 is the post where we got the information, but we don't have any real confirmation of any of it.

Eilyra does have access to full information on the names listed... at least, as much as I can google.

----------


## Toliudar

I thought Centre was the guardian of the key that unlocks the mcguffin.  Which makes it a second mcguffin, I suppose.  I just assumed that at some point we're going to need to track down the location of the prison/portal/magic box and follow it up that way.  

Regardless, Vayyel the outcast duke of hell is indeed the guy I was thinking of.  I suppose that I can also try to get more on the Mad Rajah, potentially for use in conversation with him if we need to find out what Vayyel was so eager to know.

Thanks!

----------


## Archmage1

At some point, we will need to find the thing.  However, well, directly tracking it is a no-go, which means that we are left with trying to guess where it will be, and going there.

----------


## Toliudar

Agreed.  Hence the possibility of working backwards from the thing that the key is associated with.

----------


## kinem

There are basically two kinds of MacGuffins here:

One is the Key, which Center was the guardian of until a Gloom killed him and stole it. Rule-of-Three and Joel believe that Vayyel, the outcast duke of hell, is behind the theft and got information about it from the imprisoned Mad Rajah, who had been involved with the Tharizdun cult.

The other kind of MacGuffin are the Gates which the Key could unlock and perhaps free Tharizdun. The original Gate was destroyed, but based on information you found, three Gates were built which were designed to be able to do the job if the Key is used. It seems that you found one of those Gates in the old temple on the Astral Plane. Another apparently slid into the Grey Waste. The third was said to be somewhere on the Prime.

----------


## kinem

Looks like we might have lost Paradox  :Small Eek:

----------


## Archmage1

It has been a bit, yes.

----------


## paradox26

Hi all. Sorry I have been quiet. Real life has been kicking me in the teeth lately. My friend lost her dad, and I had a dying dog to care for, who we ended up losing last week. I was a bit off from roleplaying for a while. But I am getting back into the swing of things again now. Can someone give me a quick rundown on what has been happening IC? As soon as I have some idea of the recent events, I will post IC again.

----------


## Archmage1

Sure.

We won the battle of the gate, and sealed it(For a time.  Eilyra's spell will only last for 44 days, and the Astral is a time variable plane, so that may be more or less than we expect.  On the bright side, there didn't seem to be any time loss in our trip.)
Afterwards, we did a bit more scouting, and found nothing, so we returned to Sigil.
While Ash wants us to make an immediate trip to Bavia, Eilyra has been wanting to delay that while we prepare, to give herself a chance to scribe a scroll.
Thus, we approached Rule of Three, for information on Bavia.  He said he would have something the next day.
We investigated the people in the mirror.  There were three:  One, some sort of monk warrior.
Antis, the one we know and distrust.
Pilo, Antis's friend, and the one who turned Antis into whatever he is now.  Pilo stated that he had created a weapon that could open the gate, which may or may not be Antis.  Either way, we did not release either of them.
After that, we split the party.  Eilyra to stay(At Joel's inn) and continue scribing.
Center of All to follow up with the mercane(Where we got the tuning forks for planeshift).
Avakuss to handle the warrior monk person's freedom.
Ash and Taric to approach the Sensates(At Joel's attention) so Ash can trade memories for information about the Lich and the Avatarist, Bavia, and other relevant information about the parties potentially involved in the theft of Center's mcguffin.

----------


## Cavir

P26, feel free to come up with some stories of your own to share with Sensates to help us get more info. There's also a Bariaur woman who is trying to get your attention.

----------


## kinem

Welcome back, Paradox. Sympathy for the troubles.

----------


## paradox26

Okay, I was with the group already up to the point where we last saw Rule of Three. I am posting now.

Also, thanks for the good wishes and sympathy. My posting will initially be slow for the next week, because my parents are coming to stay for a week as of tomorrow. My dad has to have a heart operation, and they need more peace and quiet than can be found at my brother's house, so I have them. So I will be spending most of my free time either at work or with them.

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## Archmage1

That makes sense, paradox.  Family first.  I hope the heart operation goes well.


For a potential trip to Bavia, Eilyra only has Planeshift, so it would go something along the lines of "Go through some portal.  Planeshift to Bavia.(We would end up 5-500 miles off target, meh.), Ash and Eilyra scry, and we see what we see.  Then we planeshift back to another plane, greater teleport to the gate(Or, if ash has greater planeshift prepared, we can use that), then return to Sigil.
From scrying, we might get some useful information.  Maybe.

----------


## Toliudar

That all sounds about right to me.  Ash has greater plane shift.

Even if we can't scry the avatarist directly, there are a lot of divinations which may help us learn more about the area that they're in.  For instance, getting to the city and casting locate object "wooden statue about the size of a person."  Scry Location is also potentially useful for us.

I know that I've been a strong proponent of going after the avatarist asap, but if there's another target we want to investigate first, I'll of course follow consensus.

----------


## Archmage1

OOC, my concern has been more in the angle of "This duo doesn't seem to have much, if any connection to what we are actually supposed to be doing", but we also don't have any other even vaguely workable leads(Ok, we do have the names of some demon lords, so we could just go and make an effort to murder them, I guess?)

IC, Eilyra doesn't want to get turned into a popsicle, and Ruin Delver's Fortune + the cloak would let her add +6 to any save, a couple of times per day.

That said, I think it is probably worth going in that vague location, and poking, to see what we could find.

Incidentally, Ash did cast Discern Location.  Was Bavia the best it could do?

----------


## Toliudar

OOC, here's the info that Ash got:

Place: Meeting Hall
Community: Aelcliff
Province: Dorburn
Country: Bavia
Continent: Arutlan
Plane: Prime Material

I agree that their link to our mission is tenuous, but even if going after these two doesn't advance the story, it has the potential to remove a couple of epic spellcasters who have every reason to want us dead.

----------


## Archmage1

Planeshift, as written, interpreted poorly, is sufficiently dangerous as to be unusable in most circumstances:  It does NOT rule out divergences vertically, which would prove to be fatal 50% of the time(At a minimum.  Teleporting into solid stone with no safety clause is likely deadly, anyway.  Since it requires 9th level at a minimum, flight can save the casters from falling.)

However, that is unlikely because if it were so dangerous, no one would ever cast it.

Volcano or Ocean is more probable, but between flight and teleportation, we can escape both problems fairly easily(20d6 damage from swimming in lava is bad, but ANY fire resistance is sufficient to negate that) before anything bad happens.

----------


## paradox26

I am fine with continuing to hunt the avatarist and lich. Better to get rid of them before they can backstab us at a critical moment. And they may have gathered information we can actually use.

----------


## Archmage1

To be clear:  Eilyra's idea of a disguise for other people is Polymorph Any Object.  This would turn anyone in the party into a human.  Or something else.  I am presuming that human's variable mental stats would allow others to keep their own stats(Minus racial bonuses).

----------


## Toliudar

I've got access to disguise self, which will have to do for making the frankensteinian Ash look human.

----------


## Archmage1

I mean, Eilyra could make her human.  No disguise required!  And, as a bonus, it would probably even be permanent!   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Toliudar

Thanks, but I don't think that Ash would consider that an upgrade.

----------


## Archmage1

She'd probably get to keep the whole slowly going insane piece of her implants, if that is what she is worried about?

----------


## Archmage1

What would be the closest safe portal Eilyra is aware of that we could use?

----------


## kinem

Eilyra would know of several portals. Let's say that some nearby and possibly safe options are the Outlands (near the Gate Towns), a Prime plane (Faerun), and Arcadia.

----------


## Cavir

I lost a little track of IC time. We originally met 4 til antipeak and now it's the evening of the next day right? Almost 24 hours since we met? It matters for spell durations and need to update what's still active. Center was gone for 6 hours this afternoon so my 6hr effects are definitely expired. Everyone fully healed?

----------


## paradox26

Taric has fast healing, so he will be fully healed by now.

----------


## Archmage1

It has been less than a day thus far, I believe.

We started near midnight on the first day, and rapidly raided the library.  We then spent a couple of hours investigating, and reading books, before returning, and resting.

At 10, we prepared, and set out to investigate the additional sites.  This, I think, took an hour or so.  We then spend another hour or so investigating those, before returning to Sigil.
At that point, we waited for 6 or so hours while investigating and doing things, putting us at around 18:00-19:00 now.

----------


## Archmage1

I was not expecting Ash to do the greater planeshift .  Might be interesting, but it is only better than planeshift if you have been there before.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

It doesn't need to be Ash, but I figured that if Ash casts this one, then we have two characters (Eilyra and Ash) still capable of plane shifting a second time if need be.  And the only reason for casting Greater Plane Shift rather than plane shift is...it's the one that she's got memorized.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm more or less banking on the Vest of the Archmagi's 3 restore a spell of any level ability charges for recasting her spells.  I was actually considering skipping the next rest, and scribing instead, but her spell durations are getting low enough that she's going to need to recast her hour per level ones.

But Ash casting it works, especially if she has a 2nd slot to use to get us back to a known plane.

But now, we get to attempt a scouting mission, and, with any luck?  Taric and Avakuss will get to do things, rather than sit around while Ash/Eilyra cast spells to make problems go away.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

I would have asked if Eilyra recognized the sound(OOC, I'm betting cars, which puts Bavia at a higher tech level than I was expecting), but, really?  No chance of that.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

So... while we wait for Avakuss or Taric to speak up...

Does Ash have access to teleport?  Because Eilyra doesn't know what the proposed destination looks like, which does present a problem.  And, well... considering how generic meeting rooms tend to be, I'd be wary of using a greater teleport based on the description.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash has 3 miracles memorized. Even if she uses one to merge Eilyra's cloaks, she has another to cast greater teleport, and a third in reserve.

----------


## Archmage1

That works.   :Small Smile: 
Reasons why Miracle is a much better spell than Wish.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra has 1 casting of improved invisibility left, but also has 2 level 4 pearls of power that can be used to allow her to cast it a couple more times.

Pearls are a surprisingly handy item, really.  They allow Eilyra to have a much broader set of spells prepared, as they can cover the need to cast some multiple times.
Of course, I do wish she had purchased more level 2 pearls, but such is life.

----------


## Archmage1

So... Yes, Eilyra is, in fact, terrible at interrogations.

----------


## Toliudar

I suspect she'd be GREAT at interrogations.  Just a little (fabulously) creepy when chatting.

----------


## Archmage1

She _is_ playing up the creepiness a bit, this time.  The line of reasoning is that the two seem to be rather unnerved, so more unnerving might just be helpful.  If not, disintegrate time.

----------


## Archmage1

That's certainly interesting.  Looks like they are familiar with other worlds here, which, in turn, implies that the man does, in fact, know quite a bit of use.
It is a pity that persuasion is, by all appearances, impossible.(Going by the failure at a diplomacy check of 40, which means that either this fellow is surprisingly high level, doesn't know anything, or is DM fiated to nope.)

----------


## Toliudar

I suppose that we're about to find out if these are epic characters in disguise.

----------


## Toliudar

I no longer think of divination as 'the weak school'.

----------


## Archmage1

Core divination was fairly mediocre.  But it got quite a few goodies added on, over time.

Really, it can be fairly summed up as "Ask the DM things."  Which is quite a powerful effect.

----------


## Archmage1

In other news, this ranges from bad news, to really bad news.

Assuming this was a private party... that suggests that these individuals are people that the Bavian government is looking to recruit.  And mercenaries.  Which makes me suspect that either the avatarist and friends are going for a coup, or are, well, genuine patriots. 

Information.  Things that would be nice to have more of.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

Also, ah... spoiler.

Eilyra may be slightly evil, and slightly murderous.

----------


## Cavir

> Also, ah... spoiler.
> 
> Eilyra may be slightly evil, and slightly murderous.


Yup, Avakauss has been happy with the lack of innocent slaughter so far from Belkar Eilyra  :Small Cool:

----------


## Archmage1

Hey now, she isn't that bad, it's just that when the situation can reasonably be made to result in murder being the optimal solution to a problem, she doesn't have a problem with utilizing that solution.

Perfectly reasonable.   :Small Tongue: 

Mass slaughters are _so_ impersonal.  And unprofessional.

----------


## Archmage1

More seriously, some thoughts about our options, and potential ramifications.

We let them go:  They can accurately report what they saw.  We... sort of kind of disguised ourselves, but let's be honest:  If the Avatarist or Lich hear of it, they're going to know it was us.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing.  If we want to arrange a meeting, this is most likely the way to do it.  Alternatively, if we want to let the Avatarist and Lich know we are hunting them, they may focus so much on not being found that they cease to be a problem for us.  
They may also contact their government, who might or might not be a problem for future operations in Bavia, but... it isn't exactly like we actually need to go to Bavia for any reason, and, frankly?  We are epic level.  We can probably conquer Bavia in an afternoon if we want.

We intimidate/diplomance them.  This is basically the same thing as the above, but they might do what we say.

We kill them:  Assuming we vanish the bodies, it is a strange mystery for the locals.  But... probably not something they can actually do anything about.  Unlikely that the Lich and Avatarist will associate the two events.

We put them on ice(Petrifiy/Glass them).  This is basically the same as killing them, except we can unfreeze them later, and see the consequences of letting them go.  If we deal with the lich and avatarist in the mean time, meh.  Downside:  This is going to take four spells from Eilyra to make happen.

We memory wipe them:  I'm not sure what spell Center is planning on using, but he can hit only one.  This means that we need to take some other action with regard to the other, but we would have a new option:  We could provide a suspect for the death of the other, via mind modification.  Depending on how good of a job Center does, this may or may not hold up.  Assuming Modify Memory, we would not want them to start thinking in terms of magic, since they could dispel Center's modifications, which leaves Bavia as definitely hostile.

Now, honestly, I'm thinking any of these options are actually fairly solid choices to make.  Personally, I'm a fan of letting them go or diplomancing them to arrange a meeting.  Eilyra, however, is a fan of either killing them, or arranging a murder(And maybe a suicide) victim for the pair.

----------


## Toliudar

I'm completely fine with letting them go, but if Eilyra is going to pursue this, I'd suggest that our most expedient course is to imprison both of them in the mirror.

----------


## Archmage1

That would work.  For bonus points?  We can then "recover" the mirror from the hideout of the lich, and abuse glibness(Well, that is, if any of us have access to it.) to blame the lich/avatarist for kidnapping Bavian citizens, and aim for a reward...

----------


## Archmage1

I... suppose another, terrible plan, would be to try leaning on the Bavian government:  Point out that they have the lich and avatarist in their land, and that they are serving a cult known for being insane and evil, and sic them on the pair?

----------


## Toliudar

I suppose.  Although if we can't find the avatarist and lich, and don't know anything about them, AND we don't actually have any evidence that they are in Bavia...we may not be making a very strong case with any government.  Plus, they're busy losing a war right now.

----------


## Archmage1

Spoiler:  Eilyra becomes mostly useless in a dead magic zone.  Casting doesn't work, which is ~70% of what she does, and her swording things in dead magic does 1d10-1, which isn't much either.  Also, her armor promptly drops to basically zero(A 22), and she becomes encumbered.  All in all, a very sad day for Eilyra.

----------


## Toliudar

Ash is also mostly useless in a dead magic zone, depending slightly on whether her grafts stop working. 

But a foray into a dead magic zone would give Taric and Avakuss a real chance to shine.  I think we should check it out.  It's the best lead we've got.

----------


## Archmage1

We are rather short on alternatives.

That said, the go in with the Mercane group offers a lot more chance for more legal investigations, allowing for the good old gather information testing, talking to people, maybe, just maybe, realizing whether there was networking or not here, and if so, can google answer our questions...

There is the missing key, taken from Center, but we just don't have enough information on it to do anything.
We have some suspicions about which demon lord was involved, so we could just go ahead and say hi, and see what we find there.

----------


## Toliudar

The difficulty is that we have no reason to believe that coming back through the Mercane connection will afford us any extra sway with official channels, and we're not sure we WANT to involve official channels.  Nor is there any reason to believe that their portal will be anywhere near here. 

I'm really not sure what the functional difference between being officially and unofficially here might be.  If we go buy some local clothes for those who want them, we're likely to fit in about as well as we're going to.  What benefits are you anticipating from being 'really' here?

----------


## Archmage1

No, it MAY offer some sway with official groups:  A visa, or something similar may be issued.

Where the portal is doesn't really matter, as we have teleport.

Being there officially means that we don't need to hide from the authorities of a potential police state, while having no idea what technology is.

This means that we can more easily ask people questions, especially people who have some experience with interacting with plane travelers.  The Mercane may offer some information as well, seeing as they probably don't want someone to ruin it all by destroying the place.

Critically it lets us avoid the information blindness problem:  By being there in an at least semi-legitimate fashion, we avoid the problem of not knowing enough to evaluate the risk of talking to people.

----------


## Toliudar

That might be a solution to a problem, but it's a solution to a problem we don't actually know exists.  

I would suggest that the best way to test that is to try to go out into the town, try to blend in a bit, and ask around in a friendly manner. If we stay together, we lose nothing by doing so, and learn something by any kind of reaction.  It seems very, very unlikely that random people on the street are going to pose an existential threat to five epic characters.

----------


## Archmage1

True.  The concern is that if we make a big enough splash, the lich and Avatarist will respond, with extensive support from lower level government people.

It is a risk, and going with the Mercane would reduce that risk.  And, well... I don't think we are really limited by time on this expedition, so there isn't a pressing reason to force us into running that risk.

----------


## Toliudar

We have no indication that the Avatarist or Lich are even on this plane, let alone so thoroughly interwoven with local culture that they can respond with major military firepower in a few seconds.  I feel that we're now well into the realm of making up incredibly niche scenarios in order to avoid taking the step of going out and talking to people.  

Frankly, this degree of negativity is getting kind of exhausting.

----------


## Archmage1

Precisely.  I do understand your frustration.  I feel like we're wandering around in a fog, IC.  The problem is we don't really have any leads, nor do we have anything that even vaguely resembles a lead, until RoT presents something, because we are not a party skilled at information gathering.

So... what do we gain by spending more time here?  It isn't likely that we are going to find anything useful, and there are potential risks.

That said... I do have one idea that may be productive, that we really, really should have thought of earlier.

Discern location, on the physical enchanted barrier that was blocking the third portal, the one we encountered in the insect room of Pandemonium.
I'm not sure if Ash touched it or not, but that is something we can quickly and easily rectify if needed.

That would be where another potential base of operations of the cult could be found, and if the lich/avatarist are affiliated with Thrazidun, then that is likely where we might find them.

Edit:  Honestly, in some ways, it is funny.  We have magic that can give incredibly detailed, useful answers about specific things, but when we need more general information to determine what specific things to ask, we are really not great at getting it.

----------


## Toliudar

What do we gain by spending more time here:
More changes to find out who the avatarist and lich might be, if they have local ties.Information about the mysteriious dead zone.A chance to scout out a variety of possible safe locations to teleport to, if we need to come back.A chance to find out more about the war, and whether it might in any way intersect with our overarching quest.  For instance, is there some rumours of a doomsday weapon that might be tied to using Tharizdun's energy.Getting a better understanding of the range of technologies active in this world, so that we're more ready to respond to them in the future.

Fundamentally, starting from a premise of "it isn't likely that going to find anything useful" becomes a self-fulfulling prophesy, because it leads to pessimism and giving up.

I'm completely up for trying the discern location on the third barrier.  I don't know if it'll work, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.  The same was true of trying to plant a seed for a meeting with the lich and avatarist.  I don't know if it'll work, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

All I'm asking is for the same benefit of the doubt.  We don't know whether we're good at getting information from the general public, in part because the information that we're building on is pretty fragmentary, but also because we haven't tried.  I'd like to try.  

As a bonus, this is the kind of work that doesn't involve everyone standing around and watching Ash cast divinations, which is, I acknowledge, not tremendously exciting.  Instead, we can all take part in the process of learning about this place, interacting with the locals in this exotic and different world. Having fun?

----------


## Archmage1

Honestly, I think we don't want to make a larger splash from this place, at the moment.  If we wait for the portal(One day), we gain some cover, and a much, much better way to get general information.  I can't imagine the Mercane not having some starter information available, and having locals there used to planar visitors will help.

I'm not against gathering information.  I just don't see any significant advantages to pushing to do so right now, here, when waiting one day will make it less risky.  We are not on a clock.
Frankly, I think we would be better off going to Sigil, and seeing what we can find out about Thrazidun or Bavia, or asking after the pair there:  If they are mercenaries, then they would be advertising somewhere, and Sigil would be the best place for that.  

Investigating the potential dead magic zone has a lot of potential.  If it is a dead magic zone, the lich can't be there, but that doesn't make it uninteresting.  It might, instead, be an anti-divination thing, which would explain why the discern location failed(Alternatively, seeing the avatar does not count as seeing the avatarist.)  If we do go, Eilyra will wait outside, and scribe her scroll instead:  Absent a known and critical reason to enter, she won't.  Frankly, a 10th level fighter would have more combat capability and survivability than she would.

Edit:  I understand your frustration:  I'm sitting here, saying no, and not really offering any good reasons why.  From where I'm sitting, we are not under any time pressure.  We have no deadlines, no "If we take too long, horrible things happen.", nothing along those lines.  Yes, horrible things could happen if we take too long, but there haven't been any hints from the DM along those lines.  (Yes, there is the lich respawn, but, well... based on last time, the lich isn't much of a threat.)  Without time pressure, I don't see a reason to jump into a totally unknown situation where I think there is a high likelyhood of things going badly, when waiting a day until the Mercane portal is available will let us avoid those risks.  And there are other things we can be doing in the meantime.
We've _already_ done far more than we planned on doing when we made this trip to Bavia as it is, and we haven't learned much.  If learning more about Bavia in general is Ash's goal, why not ask the pair of prisoners?

----------


## Toliudar

I think I've done my best to support and help with ideas that others bring forward.  When you suggested we approach the sensates, I ran with it to the best of my ability, even though it was, in your words, a totally unknown situation.   But when I try to do the same, I get pages of this negativity.

It's always going to be safer to wait than to act, but safer is not better, and it's sure not more fun. We're right here.  We have the opportunity to get to know Bavia better, and to explore an interesting phenomenon that might be plot related.  These are things that you yourself have said that we should do.  We have an escape plan with redundancy built in.  

You clearly understand why I'm frustrated, and have acknowledged that your objections are kind of speculative.  And yet this is not changing your behaviour.  I'm trying to understand, I really am. But I don't get it.

----------


## Archmage1

I'd like to think that I've done the same:  That's the reason we are at Bavia now.

Why don't we split the difference?  Ask the pair of office workers the questions about Bavia?  And see what we see?  My chief concern is the lack of knowledge, and we have a potential source of information here.

We might also ask Kinem what his opinions on giving us a couple of extra skill points per level might be, so we can put them into things like gather information, diplomacy, persuasion, things like that?  It would give Taric and Avakuss the skill points to do things other than hit things?

----------


## Toliudar

My apologies.  I thought that you had said that coming to Bavia was our best alterntive, given the dearth of leads we had.  Clearly, I misunderstood.  What is it that you had wanted to do instead?

I think that Kinem has done a great job of seeing past reducing social interactions to skill checks, and just responding to people as people - as happened with Taric at the Sensates. I have no objection to also exploring augmenting skills for Avakuss and Taric, but I don't think that that's a prerequisite to having them contribute meaninfully to social interactions.  

By all means, chat with the two folks we have here, but that's not really a compromise. That's something that I suggested that someone else do while I was casting divinations a couple of pages back.

----------


## Archmage1

Sure, I can repost that list, and update it a bit.




> That is certainly an option.  I covered what I thought our options were earlier, but, as I see it...
> Reading the remaining books from the library(Exhausts Eilyra's spells for the day  If we are doing this, Eilyra is NOT going to be doing any other adventuring, or leaving her mansion for any reason)
> Seeking information about Bavia(After all, there are other information brokers)*(Sensates provided some information here)*
> Determine who gets the Rod, or sell it(Discuss future plans)
> Interrogate the individuals in the mirror, consider freeing them(Astral plane for this)*(Completed)*
> Scroll Scribing(Mostly a downtime activity.)
> Bavia spellcasting(Ash Scrying(And Eilyra, I suppose, since she can as well))(Then, we can consider the die portion of scry and die)*(This is what we agreed to do.)*.


Kinem also pointed out that Joel had send Edigaria to investigate a destroyed temple of of the cult on the prime.  This MAY be the temple with the portal, but she has not reported back yet. 
Kinem also suggested the Sensates as a source of information.

From our interrogations, we learned that Antis and Pilo(Two of the imprisoned souls) are going to be extremely difficult to trust.  Avakuss set Hesum free, as he was evidently a prisoner taken during a raid.  He was set loose, and given to some of Avakuss's contacts.
From the Sensates, Taric picked up a potential interest, that Bavia is mechanically minded.  A large kingdom, with horseless carriages, flying machines, printing presses, factories.  Maps can be purchased.  Almost 100% human population.  They have guns.  King Rolf, a warmonger, is the king, and a powerful sorcerer, who started a war that Bavia has been losing over the last six months.

Center reported back, and got the information about the gate to Bavia, which would open the day after tomorrow.

After some discussion, we agreed to a quick trip to Bavia, to do some scrying, with the intent to return back to Sigil quickly afterwards, as RoT would have some information for us tomorrow.  
Ash's actions did let us discover that there was a meeting, to hear a patriotic speech.  Mind control got us that the meeting room was the Public Meeting Hall of Aelcliff, that we had Roge Klern, the director, and Hellen Arwic, his secretary.  And that they did not seem to know anything about the Avatarist or the Lich.  Center asked that we be more discreet, and less coercive, and that maybe we should check out other leads before proceeding.
Note that every other character, and the DM have suggested that we withdraw from Bavia.(All within the last 10 posts IC)(OR, at least, that we not press further right now.)

Adding to that list of things to seek out...
Discern Location, on the stone blocking the portal in Pandemonioum.
Investigate the unscryable area in Bavia.

----------


## Toliudar

I acknowledge that I seem to be the only one advocating following up these leads at this time. I will withdraw my objections to leaving now.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm not saying that we're not going to do these investigations.  
I'm just saying that they are more likely to be fruitful if performed at a different time.  

I don't want to be that guy, who just browbeats people until they agree.  At the time time, I'm also not sure what else I can try to explain why it seems like a bad idea to me.

----------


## Toliudar

I feel that it's best if we just move on at this point.

----------


## kinem

> I think that Kinem has done a great job of seeing past reducing social interactions to skill checks, and just responding to people as people - as happened with Taric at the Sensates. I have no objection to also exploring augmenting skills for Avakuss and Taric, but I don't think that that's a prerequisite to having them contribute meaninfully to social interactions.


Thanks. I try to do that. I think role playing for social skills is more important, and numbers on the sheet probably shouldn't even have existed for them, but they do so I take that into account too.

For Diplomacy we are using Rich Burlew's rules so it's about bargaining, not making friends, and even then it's subject to how I see the NPC's thinking.

Intimidate, likewise, has an effect but doesn't override roleplaying. A successful roll just means that you convinced the target that your threat is real, unless he has reason to know otherwise. If an NPC does not have the type of mindset that would cause him to betray someone, no roll will make him do so.

OTOH, you can get pretty far by just saying something that the person would see as reasonable, without having to roll. That is more likely to happen if the player understands the NPC.

Anyway ... investigations can be difficult to incorporate into D&D. I hope it's not been too frustrating.

----------


## Archmage1

Summarized answers work.  :)

Things about Bavia that would be nice to know:

The political situation(Rough overview of major players, both local and foreign.)
If they know anything about the anti scrying zone
What is it actually like in Bavia?(Both people, and technologies)
Are there any places where historical legends and the like would be stored?
What is their opinion on non-humans?
What's up with that whole war thing?

----------


## kinem

> The political situation(Rough overview of major players, both local and foreign.)

Bavia is ruled by King Rolf, and is currently under martial law. Instead of it being hereditary, each king or queen chooses their own successor; Rolf's choice has not been announced yet. There is a Council of Lords which has limited power as well, including the power to remove the King, and would choose a new king if there is no heir apparent. Since the war started, the king rules from a secret location, but makes announcements via newsreels that are widely shown.

Dissent is seen as treasonous and is harshly punished, as it increases the risk of technology transfers to the enemy. There are secret police who enforce this, and even rumors of a never seen 'Boogeyman' who kills traitors in their sleep.

Aelcliff has an elected mayor, Tharman Pero.

Bavia is surrounded by hostile countries, such as Nearlam, Greno, and Figg. They are said to be ruled by councils of some sort; the two prisoners don't know the details.

> If they know anything about the anti scrying zone

They don't know anything about it, but there are rumors that the local mountains are dangerous. Some people who try to explore them don't return. It has always been that way.

> What is it actually like in Bavia?(Both people, and technologies)

Technology is roughly at a (OOC: 1950's) level.

The population is about 95% human, the two of them think.

> Are there any places where historical legends and the like would be stored?

Aelcliff has a small library that has some things like that. Most cities have libraries and museums. 

> What is their opinion on non-humans?

They don't know many. Most non-humans are alright, but they are more likely to be traitors, so it's best to steer clear of them. Humans are the future, as the human population has increased over the years much more than that of other races.

> What's up with that whole war thing?

The war started when several Bavian cities were attacked without provocation, and several Bavian leaders on the Council of Lords were kidnapped and never recovered. The King was attacked but got away thanks to his magic. The other countries must have become jealous of Bavia's advancements in technology and wanted to steal it.

They must have done so, as the enemy has similar weapons to Bavia. Bavia has lost at least half of its territory at this point. Bavia was always the strongest nation, so the enemies probably have help from 'demons' or something like that. (The two 'prisoners' have no idea what the differences are supposed to be between different evil outsiders, and call them all 'demons'.)

----------


## Archmage1

Interesting.

It sounds to me like:  There is a considerable propaganda effort on the part of the Bavian government to paint Bavia as the good guys.  Reality may be different.

Nuclear weapons are potentially on the table.  Pro Tip:  Getting nuked would most likely not be an enjoyable experience, but it may be a survivable one, depending on the rules Kinem uses.

Police state, which means that not having papers/legal reason to be there is likely to lead to conflict.

This boogeyman MAY be the Gloom.  Which would imply that Rolf is working for a cult or demons that work for the cult.  Seeing as their propaganda does specifically mention that there is an implication that other regions may have formed such an alliance, it is entirely possible.

I think that answers my questions, and doesn't lead to more, for the moment.  I'm not sure how we can reach the dead magic zone, since we don't have a reliable description, or anything similar, allowing for teleportation.  The library might have such, or some images therein, however, this is a police state that is losing a war.

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note, are there any openable windows?  If we are planning to come back, to investigate that dead magic zone, it would be handy to be able to fly outside, and identify a teleportation target for future investigation.

It should just be a matter of extended improved invisibility, fly up for a couple of minutes, get ourselves a line of sight on the approximate area, then return, before casting planeshift.

----------


## Archmage1

I may have been slightly unclear:  The goal was to get a line of sight on the mountains, 25 miles to the west.   :Small Smile:   800 feet(10 rounds of full movement) of height should have been enough to achieve that, or at least getting somewhat closeish.   :Small Smile: 

Marking spells appropriately.

----------


## Archmage1

Sadly... I think it is entirely possible to live in a dead magic zone, as a caster.  It is actually a fairly cunning defence:  Since a significant portion of the power of high level characters tends to come from magic(Especially defensively), it becomes possible to manage an extremely lopsided defense using significantly lower level, and less powerful beings.(You just use Wish/Miracle to clear an area for your operations.)

Assuming 20th level, with +5 inherent to primary stats, you can reach Dex 28(+8 AC), along with Wis(Or some other stat) 23(+6), giving the highest base AC in a non-magic zone for an unarmored opponent of 24.  You can add some natural armor(Depending on race), and dodge, and the like, but you'd probably struggle to hit AC 30.

With armor, Mithril Full plate can give an AC of +11, along with a shield, for a +2(No one really uses tower shields), so you can manage a base AC of 23(With much lower stats needed).  Add in dodge, and natural armor and the like, and you are still at that AC 30 range at most.

Spells are not an option, but, say, a poorly optimized 10th level fighter should reliably have a +16 to attack.(10 bab, +4 stat, +1 focus, +1 masterwork), which is sufficient.  Add in a fortress, say, ten of them, and some distance, and they can likely cause some serious issues for high level attackers.  Their longbows are going to be doing 1d8+4, so an average of 8, once per 3 rounds, so ~3 damage per fighter per round(Ignoring crits).

It ends up being a very cost effective way to fight high level characters... and that is totally ignoring monsters.

(You can also do one better, and use, say Miracle, to give your defenders access to magic.  Add in a bard, or a low level cleric?)

----------


## Cavir

Yes those are possibilities but Avakuss is keeping an open mind, thus wanting to scout it in person at some point.

----------


## Archmage1

Scouting it is absolutely a thing we will be doing in the near future.  Probably either tomorrow(IC), or the day after(Mercane Portal).  We just want to do so cautiously.  :)

----------


## Toliudar

Dead magic zones also become especially potent when your defense might include armour plating, and your offense might include multiple machine gun installations and a V2 rocket.

----------


## Archmage1

I was trying to not think about that, really.  With magic?  Probably not a major threat.

Without magic?  Attacking a WW2 tech era defense(assuming competently designed) with medieval weaponry?  Suicide.

Hopefully, it is just a scrying barrier.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Toliudar

Ash will just hide behind Taric.

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, with artillery(And, of course, no rings of evasion) close counts.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## paradox26

Taric has finally found out what he is best at: Fighting in dead magic zones. A niche strength to be sure, but a potentially useful one.

----------


## Archmage1

Taric has a few more advantages, don't worry.

For example, Eilyra would struggle with more than 4ish difficult encounters in a day.  

Taric, on the other hand...

----------


## Archmage1

Are there any decent restaurants or taverns nearby?  I'm presuming it is fairly late in the evening at this point, correct?

----------


## kinem

The gate to Faerun is not too far from the Black Sail. If you want to go elsewhere, you might as well consult the map.

----------


## Archmage1

Hm... how about the Sword and Buckler Alehouse?  A place frequented by bodyguards, mercenaries, and those in need of their services might not be a bad place for food and information.

----------


## Toliudar

We should also find out whether the Mercane actually have any special deal with the Bavian government, and what using their portal instead of travelling under our own power gets us.  

Ash has a little spell power left, and decent if not outstanding social skills. She could try to dig into what that mini-world on the Astral plane might have been used for, and what it might suggest about the branch of the cult that was using it.

----------


## kinem

I will be on a trip 3/24-4/3. I'll have my phone with me so I can still see posts and reply to some extent.

----------


## Toliudar

Safe travels, Kinem!

I'm pausing pending clarification about the extent to which the Doomguard are in fact still in Sigil. If they're not here, then Ash will think of someone else to contact.

----------


## kinem

The Doomguard is in Sigil. Until recently, that was unofficial, of course. With the factions allowed back, no doubt they - and the other factions - are scrambling to regain official status.

----------


## paradox26

Forgot to make my rolls in the IC thread, so I will make them here.

Listen (1d20+5)[*7*]
Spot (1d20+27)[*38*]

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## Archmage1

Hey now, Taric's a human at the moment.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Toliudar

Archmage, is it Eilyra's intent to hire mercenaries at this point?  It seems like something we should discuss IC before doing.

----------


## Archmage1

No.  Eilyra has no intention of hiring mercenaries.

She is, however, interested in using a fictitious job that can only be done by a lich and avatarist working together to gather more information about the lich and avatarist in question.

----------


## Toliudar

Ah!  Brilliant stratagem!

----------


## Archmage1

Mostly?  Apart from reading another...

(94(Available spell levels, discounting a casting of mansion and greater dispel) *22) 2068 books over 3 hours, and maybe casting miracle to combine magical items?

I think that is probably enough books read to cover the entire library?

And can we assume Avakuss has updated Joel?

----------


## Archmage1

That is interesting indeed!  

Was that enough reading to finish the books?  
Has Eilyra ever heard any stories of a warrior named Hart with a sword like the key(Or the key), or a wizard demigod thing called Delone?
(1d20+36)[*39*] Know:  History(Burning Moment of Prescience)
(1d20+36)[*37*] Know: Religion(Or Arcana, Local, or planes)


How much sense do those research notes make?  Do they seem like they would be successful, or likely to have side effects?
(1d20+36)[*45*] Know Arcana
(1d20+38)[*45*] Spellcraft

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## kinem

I don't have an exact count on the books at this point, so I'll just say that there are (1d20)[*13*] books left to read.

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show


Hart: While you have not heard of "Hart", you can guess that whoever wrote the book was around at the time of the events he describes as it includes many obscure details including ancient languages and the names of craftsmen; the book however is a fictional account that attributes many actions to the wrong people, not just to Hart. Anyone who knew of the real events would quickly mark it as fiction.

Delone: You know of no such demigod; however, the name may be false, or he may have taken a different name after his transformation.

Research Notes: While they seem legitimate, side effects were very likely. It is plausible that the final experiment could have been what caused the Gate to slide into the Waste.

----------


## Archmage1

And on a slight side note...

Daily objectives for this day, IC?

Things I think we can do:

Follow up on information gathering, see if we can collect anything more about...
The Avatarist and the Lich(Not likely to succeed, but maybe?  This might be better done the day after, when we have that legit way to Bavia, and can research there.)
Delone(Who might be going by some other name)
Bavia(In general.  Mercanes might be helpful.  The goal is to get enough information for an investigation for the next day, when we have a semi-legit portal)
Bavia Anti-Scrying zone.  Is this an anti-scrying zone, or an anti-teleport zone?  That said, we will want to get the previous information first, and consider.
Legend lore the Rod of Force(I say this, as it burned with the supernatural cold in Thrazzy's temple.  That is unusual, and suggests that there is more to the rod.)
Legend lore the Robes/Gate keys we retrieved about the complex.
Ash's Doomguard contact:  In the evening.
General information on the Cult.
See what Rule of Three has discovered
Research the Gloom, Vayyel, or the Mad Rajah(Involved with the Theft.)
Finish reading the Books.
Follow up on the warrior that Avakuss freed:  Has he done something we would regret?

Economic
Selling the Rod(We are somewhat low on gold.  Selling it, split six ways, would give each of us ~10k.)
Doing some other activity to make a quick buck.  If we are intending to have the option to hire mercenaries to do the dying on Bavia, gold would be helpful. Bonus points if we can get the 3.1k XP Eilyra needs to level.  Taric, sadly, needs around 9k, and thus I really hope that Paradox hasn't been recording XP as we go.

Personal:
Spell Scribing:  Eilyra is 24 hours out from finishing scribing the spell.  This means that it might be possible to have it ready by the time we go to Bavia next.(End result is the ability to give herself +6 to specific saves(Cough fortitude cough), and be less likely to fall over and die.)

----------


## Toliudar

That seems like a great list. There are some things that I don't know HOW to determine today (like the zone in Bavia), but acknowledge the value in pursuing all of them.

I'm fine to cast Legend Lore on the objects, but would have to go shopping for the incense, and that's a 1,000gp hit to our finances.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah.

Honestly, a solid reserve of gold would be extremely handy for a lot of reasons.  We can sell the rod to generate ~10k per person, but it might be more profitable to look for a shorter adventure we might accomplish, like killing an ancient red dragon or two.  We're currently fairly short on gold, but fairly well off in terms of equipment.  Something fairly easy, straightforward, and profitable.  The hard part would be the finding the creature.

We can then use that gold to handle miscellaneous expenses, like legend lore, bribes, and other reasonable purchases.

The list isn't really prioritized, and a lot of it is the sort of thing we would be better off delegating to RoT(With some cross checking).

----------


## kinem

Toliudar, I saw that you started a new high level Planescape game recently. Looks interesting.

All: So ... how are things going? Some people haven't been very active here lately, so I wanted to ask.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm going all right.

----------


## Toliudar

The high level planescape is basically a salon de refusee for a bunch of 20th level applications to a different game.  My plan is to throw horrible things at them until either they get bored or I figure out a plot.  Nowhere near your level of sophistication, I'm afraid.

----------


## Cavir

> All: So ... how are things going?


I'm here. I got behind on this game and all the different things going on IC snowballed on me. I'm working on catching up today.

----------


## Archmage1

Luckily, not too much happened in that period:

Ash made a contact with the Doomguard, in an effort to convince them to help.
Eilyra discovered that no, finding high level mercenaries is not a simple thing, but that there might be a warrior we could potentially hire if we are willing to pay quite a bit of gold.
Taric got to enjoy a fine meal while watching Eilyra be bad at social, and Avakuss did the sensible thing, and went back to the black sail.

----------


## Cavir

Thanks for your patience all. 
Are we all good on loot (xp?) before we start another adventuring day? This party is not the 15 minute adventure day types!

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, we got no loot or XP since the encounter with the insects near the portal.

Eilyra would be happy with a 15 minute adventuring day.
It would give her ~15 hours per day to scribe her scroll!  It would be done in three days!

----------


## kinem

I PM'd paradox. We would certainly want all hands on deck for the next set piece.

----------


## paradox26

Sorry for my silence. I have been busy nearly every night for the last month or more. I have been doing a course at nights, and when I haven't been either there or studying for it, I have been going to sports events with my partner, as she is a sports nut. I have more free time now, though I will be away for a few days next week, as I have to go out of town. I will catch up on the IC thread and get a post in probably tomorrow, as I am going to bed shortly.

----------


## Archmage1

I did make the assumption there that Eilyra does know what a Marraenoloth is, what the Grey wastes are, and what the River Styx is.  I'm hopeful that doing so wasn't unreasonable?

(1d20+36)[*50*](Know Planes) Marraenoloths
(1d20+36)[*50*](Know Planes) The Grey Wastes(If she also knows anything about planar effects, if any, could be helpful to know)
(1d20+36)[*40*](Know Planes) The River Styx

----------


## kinem

Eilyra indeed knows about those things.

*Spoiler: Grey Waste*
Show

Strongly evil-aligned.
Entrapping. This is a special trait unique to Hades (although Elysium has a similar entrapping trait). A nonoutsider in Hades experiences increasing apathy and despair while there. Colors become grayer and less vivid, sounds duller, and even the demeanor of companions seems to be more hateful. At the conclusion of every week spent in Hades, any nonoutsider must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 10 + the number of consecutive weeks in Hades). Failure indicates that the individual has fallen entirely under the control of the plane, becoming a petitioner of Hades.

Travelers entrapped by the inherent evil of Hades cannot leave the plane of their own volition and have no desire to do so. Memories of any previous life fade into nothingness, and it takes a wish or miracle spell to return such characters to normal.

----------


## paradox26

I finally got a chance to catch up on what Taric would have been present to learn. And then when I went to check my sheet, I discovered that I accidentally deleted it yesterday when I did a Myth Weavers cleanup of my unused sheets. I had to go back and reinstate it, which took a few minutes of searching how to do it to learn. All good now though.

----------


## Archmage1

That is rather bad luck, but I am glad you were able to reinstate it.   :Small Smile:

----------


## kinem

Good to have you back, paradox. Of course I understand real life comes first. Good to know your sheet is back and it may come in handy to know that they can be reinstated.

----------


## paradox26

It is a bad time to say this, but I will be going out of town for three days as of tomorrow. Got to go out into the bush for a funeral, and out there I won't have internet access, I don't think.

----------


## kinem

Its ok. Thanks for telling us and have a good trip.

----------


## Toliudar

Sorry for your loss, Paradox!

----------


## Archmage1

That is a very nifty divination.

----------


## Archmage1

Do Ash or Avakuss have any actions to take?

----------


## Archmage1

Cavir, Paradox, any thoughts or comments IC?

----------


## paradox26

I am back. I have been busy since I returned from the funeral. I got notification that I passed a night course I was doing, and am now busy trying to start a business. But I will have time to game again. So I will catch up and make an IC post in the next half hour.

----------


## Archmage1

Since Eilyra did learn what the Abyssal Spiders are called, is she able to make another knowledge check, to see if she knows anything else about them?

(1d20+36)[*49*] Know:  Planes

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

Abyssal Spiders, as you now recall, are aberrations drawn to sites of great magical power. In addition to damage and distraction, if attacking en masse they can dispel magic on their victims. Other than relying on sight, they have an ability to sense life, and only attack living things.

----------


## paradox26

Just noticed that we passed our first anniversary for the game a couple of days ago.

----------


## Archmage1

Awesome!  That means that we've passed the bar that so many games fail to even approach!   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

On a more IC note, Eilyra can solve Taric's lack of flight with another PaO.  Would he have any preferences on what he gets turned into?  Half fiend, half celestial, winged, or half fey Bariaur seems like the simplest approach, but...

Is that crossing a line that kinem doesn't want crossed?  Because that's more or less permanently granting a template, until dispelled..

----------


## kinem

We have reached this milestone thanks to great players 😎

Polymorph - including PAO - does not allow templates to be applied. It inherits that limitation from Alter Self, which the other spells are based on directly or indirectly by RAW.

----------


## Archmage1

That is very good point.

Which leads to the question:  Would Taric have any preferences on what he would be polymorphed into?  There are quite a lot of things that can fly, but not really many(Any) that I can find that are centaur-like and can fly...

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra might be slightly salty over Ash's adamant determination to return to Bavia as soon as possible, then her insistence of expanding our planned trip of scrying into a teleport assault, when Eilyra just wanted to scribe the spell that would give her a much better chance to not freeze to death when they next fought the Avatarist.

----------


## Toliudar

Happy anniversary, everyone!

Paradox, if it's your preference, I'll prepare a couple of Air Walks for Taric.

----------


## Archmage1

Are we safe in assuming we rest (Or do other activities) for nine hours while Ash prepares spells, then we go to the portal?
We might need to get some food/water for the rat.

----------


## Archmage1

Is everything all right, kinem?

----------


## kinem

Sorry, Ive been busy. Also I wanted to see what the other PCs would do. At this point I assume they will go along with Ashs timetable. I will make an IC post on Friday.

----------


## Archmage1

Hm.  You know, if we stuck the rat into the mirror...
I wonder if holding the mirror would qualify?

----------


## kinem

Saturday morning!

----------


## Archmage1

I think everyone but Ash is going?

----------


## Cavir

I'm game for going. Just before going through I'll activate some protections.
Extended Energy Adaptation 
Extended Steadfast Perception

----------


## Cavir

I'll be away until 6/12 but should have access while away.

----------


## Archmage1

As it turns out, telling a tale of how a merchant can screw over their customers doesn't really go down well when retold to customers.  How strange.

Mistakes the Swordsman made:  Not arranging for safe arrival.  Not killing the marraenoloth once it betrayed him.
Mistakes the Marraenoloth made:  Lying about the payment it desired.

----------


## Archmage1

Does anyone NOT have 400 gold to pay our tour guide who is definitely not planning to extort us before sailing us to a bad end?

----------


## Toliudar

If the boatsman takes payment in gems, I can cover folks who don't have cash on hand.

----------


## Archmage1

I think that covers all of us except for Center, then.  Avakuss has already paid, Eilyra does have the coin(Barely), and if Ash can cover herself?
Center, I think, should have the gold, unless he got rid of his payment from last time?

----------


## kinem

Center hasn't spent much, but I'm not sure how much of the loot he had. In any case it would be enough.

----------


## Toliudar

In case you need spot & listen rolls for the pleasure cruise:
Ash Spot: (1d20+50)[*52*]
Listen: (1d20+26)[*41*]

----------


## Archmage1

After we make the initial jump, is spell scribing possible in the boat, or is it too unsteady/dangerous?

----------


## kinem

Its too unsteady.

----------


## Archmage1

Dimension door works too.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

Is the description after Avakuss(And us, unless we object) d-doors to the tower?

----------


## kinem

I would think so, although a post by Cavir might clarify his plan in light of the information I just posted.

----------


## Cavir

How tall is the tower? DDing to the top of it would be nice.  Might even be out of their life sense range! If not, we'll go right up to the tower.

----------


## kinem

Its 50 tall.

----------


## Toliudar

I'm all in favour of d-dooring to the top of the tower, but my IC post currently assumes we're at ground level.  I can adjust if need be.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm in the same boat, but am holding off on an IC post until positional accuracy is determined.

----------


## Archmage1

Do we have any ideas on how thick the floor is, or the walls?  (As in, the floor below us, so the ceiling of the tower)

(1d20+14)[*18*] know:  Architecture and Engineering

----------


## kinem

You dont have enough information to know that.

----------


## Archmage1

How large is the top of the tower?  (As in, is it a 10 foot cube?  50 feet in diameter?  Something else?)

(Planning to either PaO the top away, or Disintegrate to open a hole.)

----------


## paradox26

Hi guys. Sorry I haven't been posting lately. I have a sleeping disorder among other things, and lately when I am not at work I have been sleeping. This is likely to continue for a while. Unfortunately, I am unable to keep up with the party's posting rate, so it may be best if I step out of the game. I have been enjoying it, though my character hasn't been all that useful. But I don't want to keep the game from progressing, and when I get online I have a couple of pages of material to work through and it is largely too late to react usefully to it. 

Thanks, Kinem, for running the game for us, you are a fine DM, and when things clear up I would love to be in a future game with you. And every one of the players, you have been fantastic gamers, and I would be honoured to play with you again in future too.

----------


## Cavir

Sorry to hear that paradox. Hope you get the treatment you need.

I'm ok with continuing with three or finding new players.

----------


## Archmage1

:Small Frown:   I'm sorry to see you go, paradox.  I hope you can recover, and that we can play another game in the future.

Good luck!

----------


## kinem

Paradox, best wishes. Im sorry to see you go but I understand. I hope things improve for you soon.

I have not been posting as much as I would like to, either. This has been due to a combination of work, life, and worries. Ill try to get an IC post up tomorrow.

As for Taric, in the near term, perhaps the other players could run him for a little while.

----------


## Toliudar

So sorry to hear, Paradox, and all the best in finding a better equilibrium.

I'm good either to recruit or proceed with three, as desired.

----------


## Cavir

> As for Taric, in the near term, perhaps the other players could run him for a little while.


Sure, that's doable.

----------


## Cavir

I have a chance for one check
Knowledge (planes) DC 22: (1d20+7)[*25*]

Are all the creatures size large? With the creatures and gate in the center, is the room for me to grow to size huge? How high is the ceiling in there?

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra makes all the checks on a nat 1.  Benefits of wizard + max ranks in the skill.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## kinem

> Are all the creatures size large? With the creatures and gate in the center, is the room for me to grow to size huge? How high is the ceiling in there?


The first in the list is Large, the Nycaloth is Huge, and the other two are Medium sized.

The ceiling is 40 high. Yes, there is enough room for another Huge creature to be down in the room.

----------


## Cavir

> Eilyra makes all the checks on a nat 1.  Benefits of wizard + max ranks in the skill.


Where do all the +23 bonuses come from? I've always been curious but never got around to asking.




> The ceiling is 40 high.


Oh, so the tower itself is (at least) mostly hollow, ahh.

----------


## Archmage1

She has an int of 36, so a stat bonus of +13, and the maximum skill rank for a level 20 character is 23 for any skill.  She has max ranks in Arcana, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion, Concentration and Spellcraft.   :Small Smile: 

As it turns out, having a high intelligence leads to a lot of skill points.  Admittedly, I am a bit sad that the int increases are not retroactive, and that I didn't think I could apply the +5 int from a book until 20th level, which reduced the impact that boost would have had.

I'm... considering Eilyra's actions here.  Haste, for sure(Yes, I know that Ash has already cast it, however Eilyra only gets her class benefits if she casts the haste.)  Past that, I'm thinking that attempting to petrify the Baernaloth might be a plan, but...

I presume that we are acting first this combat, as though we had a surprise round, or something else?  
Should we be rolling initiative?

----------


## Archmage1

In the interest of seeing what Eilyra actually knows...

Is she able to recall anything more than what is listed under the knowledge checks?(Specifically looking for things like expected saves and spell immunities, like, say, PaO or Glass Strike.)

(1d20+36)[*52*] large, green, scaly humanoid 
(1d20+36)[*49*] Nycaloth
(1d20+36)[*51*] long snake-like heads with green scales
(1d20+36)[*41*] grey humanoid with a large, horned head
(1d20+36)[*51*] Mysterious 4th fellow

----------


## Cavir

> the maximum skill rank for a level 20 character is 23 for any skill.


Duh on me, was thinking that column was bonuses, not ranks.




> I'm... considering Eilyra's actions here.  Haste, for sure(Yes, I know that Ash has already cast it, however Eilyra only gets her class benefits if she casts the haste.)  Past that, I'm thinking that attempting to petrify the Baernaloth might be a plan, but...
> 
> I presume that we are acting first this combat, as though we had a surprise round, or something else?  
> Should we be rolling initiative?


kinem said we're acting first. 

Avakuss will be using Temporal Acceleration and will suddenly have a lot of boosts and still full attack. Hoping those with knowledge of the enemies will give him some direction who to attack first. Taking care of an enemy spellcaster asap is a good thing but also don't want to get caught in a 'friendly' Maw of Chaos. The 40' distance to the floor is a surprise. Is it cheesy to use both Jump and Tumble to reduce damage? Not that the damage will be noticeable.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra will, if she gets more information?  As it is, what she knows is somewhat limited:  The first is an archer, the second is mostly an axe murderer, the third a cleric?, the forth can cast miracle, but probably has a lot more nastiness in store.

They also all probably have that common power of greater teleport at will, plus some other SLA's, some of which are likely to be useful.

On the bright side(And sadly) this, I think, is where Taric would shine.

Edit:  I suppose we could try talking?  Do they seem hostile/definitely aligned with our enemies?  Or pulling out the ever handy mirror?

----------


## Archmage1

So, depending on what we find out...

I think the priority is the grey humanoid(The one with the DC 34 knowledge check).  Probably.  I think Taric can manage a charge?  If we are extremely lucky, maybe we can manage to take it down before it can act?

I don't suppose Ash has anticipate teleportation online currently?  Because that seems nice.

----------


## Cavir

There's plenty of room for Taric and Avakuss to double team someone. Without guidance Avakuss would go against the biggest, which also keeps the flyer away from our casters (short of teleport). When Avakuss grows to size Huge, powerful build has him count as Gargantuan. That's taking up 15' space plus a 20' reach. He'll be able to cover two corners at once. Reach plus Combat Reflexes will be nice.

----------


## kinem

The distance from the top of the tower (where you are) to the floor below is actually 50'. The ceiling height is less, naturally.




> I suppose we could try talking? Do they seem hostile/definitely aligned with our enemies?


You certainly can try talking. Since you just busted the place open, you may have to talk fast to avoid a fight. They are fiends, and seem to have something to do with this Gate, but you see no sign of the Key. The Nycaloth is armed with a greataxe, and guy with two snake heads does have a greatsword but it is sized for a Medium creature - not Large as the Key Center spoke of would be.

The party acts first, but there is no surprise round. Somehow they knew something was up.

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show


large, green, scaly humanoid (Tekinto): Its attacks cause energy drain; it has potent magic including Wraithstrike at will; often act as mercenaries for either side in the Blood War; has Mindsight

Nycaloth: This is a particularly large specimen. They tend to grapple, and are mostly threats in melee, though they do have spell-like abilities such as See Invisibility. They are less resistant to Good weapons.

long snake-like heads with green scales (Colubriloth): This can cast spells like a cleric. It can do so while mixing in some melee attacks, and also has SLAs such as Blade barrier. It has a poisonous bite.

grey humanoid with a large, horned head (Baernaloth): 
This is the same as the "4th guy" so I'll use the first roll.
Baernaloths are masters of the Dark Speech. They are immune to mind-affecting abilities, and to polymorph.


*Spoiler: Ash*
Show

Green guy (Tekinto): has Mindsight.

Nycaloth: This is a particularly large specimen, perhaps a commander in the Blood War.

Grey humanoid: Baernaloths are masters of the Dark Speech. They are immune to mind-affecting abilities.

----------


## Archmage1

So...

Tekinto, Nycaloth, Colubriloth, Baernaloth.

Tekinto:  Energy drain, wraithstrike at will.  It is big, so definitely high fort.  Probably a somewhat lower will.
Nycaloth:  Large, probably hits like a truck.  High fort, but probably lower reflex and will.
Colubriloth:  Clericy, so definitely high will.  Probably lower reflex, and maybe lower fort.
Baeernaloth:  Dark speech is some bad news, although mind blank may help, a little.  Probably high will, maybe lower fort and reflex?  But immunity to polymorph is not good for Eilyra.  That said, it has the highest DC, and dark speech isn't that worrisome.  Which says it has some fairly nasty stuff we probably don't want it to use.

My thoughts:  I'm thinking that Eilyra's going to attempt to glass strike the Colubriloth, and it might work?  50/50 shot, probably.  She'll also attempt a stun ray on the Baernaloth, which should give us a round(At a minimum) of stun.  Hopefully, 2 rounds of Taric will be enough to take it down.

Sadly, Eilyra's SoD's are pretty much exclusively targeting Fort.  But if the melee ones bunch up a bit, Eilyra can and will drop a maw on them, which should get us somewhere, hopefully.  I don't think Yugoloths are chaotic by default.

Dark Speech can do some diplomacy stuff, but we are mostly immune to the other effects of the base effects.
More worrisome, they can also attempt to apply a stagger if we have less HD than they do in mass(And we will have less HD.)  1d10 rounds, and a will save(But the DC is likely to be quite high) to avoid.  It is mind affecting, so mind blank says no.  Notably, it CAN create hive minds of vermin, like, say, the spiders.

----------


## Archmage1

Hm, well... I didn't really intend to give up Eilyra's action?  More a moment of hesitation, a snap judgement of hostility, then getting to murder?

And alas, I keep getting Thraximundar and Tharizdun confused.(I tried making a deck for one.  It didn't really work out as well as I had hoped, but...)

----------


## kinem

The creatures below will reply when it's their turn.

Also, Eilyra said quite a lot of words there. It's a lot to say that much in six seconds, much less to act as well, especially since the words are explicitly prior to deciding on action. So I think that was her action.

When I post a character speaking during combat, I always try to make it short and to the point, so it could plausibly be said while also doing other things.

----------


## Archmage1

I can see that as fair.  Would you mind terribly if she took one additional free action?

Spoiler:  Said free action would be haste, to activate her class abilities, specifically the miss chances.

----------


## kinem

Sure, thats fair enough.

----------


## Archmage1

It is now edited in.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Cavir

Group Haste right? Extra attack for Avakuss then.

Haste: (1d20+28)[*36*] crit: (on 19+): (1d20+28)[*39*]
damage: (8d8+16)[*53*] Bludgeon + (1d6)[*6*] Electric. Specials: Adamantine, Good
On hit, Staggering Blow, Fort DC32 or stunned one round.
crit: (8d8+16)[*45*]

----------


## Archmage1

Yes, however, Ash had already hasted everyone.  Eilyra, however, needs to cast her own haste to get the benefits of her class.

----------


## Cavir

I made my own copy of Taric here so it can be kept updated. Took me a bit to figure out the fine points. Hopefully got them all.

EDIT: Wow, Taric can be nasty with dealing damage!

EDIT2: I forgot Avakuss's tentacle attacks. Will add them.

----------


## Archmage1

I think you're seriously underestimating the power of Taric's souldrinker.  It isn't your wimpy negative level on a crit.

It is 2d4 negative levels per hit, and is an epic enchantment.  And is on both of his swords.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magi...tm#souldrinker

Seriously, Taric might not have had a lot of out of combat utility, but... he had a LOT of damage output.  Like... more than the rest of us combined, really.

----------


## Cavir

Offhand1 crit threat: 

Offhand 1: (1d20+32)[*40*]
DMG: (1d8+17)[*24*]
Negative levels: (2d4)[*3*]
Taric: +5 temp hp and +2 morale to attack for following attacks




> Taric's souldrinker


Oh, I thought it was the souldrinking bonus. I had forgotten about the specific weapon. That makes a big diff. Thanks!

*EDIT:*  2d4 negative levels on its target whenever it deals damage. *jaw drop*. Will have to do another post for rolling those.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah.  2d4 negative levels per hit is amazing.

If Eilyra had an extra half million gold sitting around, she would have gotten the same thing.  It would have turned her many, but weak attacks into a serious threat.

(I think it is either a +4 or +6 enchantment.  But Eilyra perhaps overvalued Agile and Blooddrinking...)

----------


## Cavir

2d4 neg levels per hit (some may be misses)
Haste1 (2d4)[*7*]
Main1 (2d4)[*6*]
Main2 (2d4)[*5*]
Main3 (2d4)[*5*]
Main4 (2d4)[*7*] (auto miss)
Offhand1 (rolled a 3 in previous post)
Offhand2 (2d4)[*3*]
Offhand3 (2d4)[*4*]

----------


## Archmage1

I... feel like that sort of highlights that CR might be a little wonky?  Or else rocket tag strikes again?  What was the CR of the Baernoloth?

----------


## kinem

It would not be appropriate for me to answer that at this time.

----------


## Cavir

> I... feel like that sort of highlights that CR might be a little wonky?  Or else rocket tag strikes again?  What was the CR of the Baernoloth?


Two epic melee types getting to full attack a single flatfooted target? There's probably not much that could withstand that (even without Souldrinker) and not curb stomp the party if given the chance. That part of the fight at least was probably a tactical win too. If we had come in through a first floor door the tactical situation would have been very different. Still some dangerous untouched foes. The response could be painful.

----------


## kinem

I'm working on an IC post, though it might not be up until tomorrow, I don't know yet.

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20+27)[*38*]

----------


## Cavir

> Avakuss' Will (I'll roll here to speed thing up but if he has options let me know): (1d20+26)[36]


That's fine to roll. I was missing the +7 from defensive precog, so add another 7 if that matters. Sheet updated.

Do I get an AoO vs the Blasphemy spell (between my size and reach, should be threatening him).

----------


## kinem

Avakuss made the Will save regardless.

No AOO since it was cast defensively (unless you have a way around that).

----------


## Cavir

2 hits normally, but Cloak of Displacement may help? (1-20 helps if so)
[roll]1d100][/roll]
[roll]1d100][/roll]

I have Dampen but it's a swift and already spent that action type. Dazed and 8 STR penalty

----------


## Cavir

Arrrrrrrrgh
(1d100)[*79*]
(1d100)[*64*]

----------


## Cavir

Sorry for the multiple posts, Touch attacks vs displacement
(1d100)[*73*]
(1d100)[*65*]

Total for round: 95 damage and 2 neg levels (-5 hp each already included)

*Spoiler: Neg levels, each*
Show


    -1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
    -1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
    -5 hit points.
    -1 effective level (whenever the creatures level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
    If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.


Will lose access to: Rage of the Remorhaz and Form of Doom

----------


## Archmage1

Hm.  Slightly annoyed by rolling a 4 on that first spell penetration check.  If only Eilyra had the feat space for Arcane Mastery.(Ok, she probably could, if she had another source of essencia).

Things to acquire:  Third Eye Penetration(For another +2 on spell penetration checks)(+4 total)
Shattermantle?  Seems a bit of a waste, really, but...(The problem isn't in the effect, but that if Eilyra is stabbing someone, she might as well keep stabbing)
Tombbound Eye of Boccob?  Sure, 3 spells only, but...

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20)[*16*]


The Colubriloth is stunned ... for the moment.

Ash to act.

I won't be able to make major posts for the next few days, but I'll have my phone with me.

----------


## Archmage1

Well... Eilyra tried?  And at least gave us a turn?  Ish?

----------


## Cavir

A round for the high level enemy cleric not casting spells is a good thing. Avakuss does have a quickened AoE to deal with the mirror images once he can act again. Then again, he could also teleport Center out of the center of battle.

How does a Huge creature in tight quarters with Mirror Image work?  LOL  Just aim for the center of mass of them all and something has to be there.

----------


## Archmage1

Paralyzed is problematical.  I suppose it really depends on what Ash does, and what the enemies do in their round.

On the bright side, if Center dies, at least Ash has miracle, and can thus rez him without the 5k xp loss?

----------


## Cavir

Ugh. Was about to use Dimension Door to move Center to the other side of me but then remembered Anticipate Teleport. That could have been real bad.

----------


## Archmage1

That would have been quite problematical.

----------


## Cavir

Swift: Quickened Energy Cone. Max 17PP so 6PP for the quickened and 11d6 electricity damage. 60' cone can reach both of them. Hopefully getting rid of all images.
(11d6)[*43*] Electricity. Reflex DC27 for half.
SR check: (1d20+19)[*31*] (with +2 bonus from using electricity)

Crit check for Fist2:
Crit: (1d20+24)[*36*] 
damage: (8d8+12)[*47*] Bludgeon

----------


## Archmage1

The Colubriloth is stunned for 1 round, even if it made the fort save vs stun ray.  Which means that it can't take actions until after the beginning of Eilyra's turn.  Unless it has a way to counter that?

----------


## Cavir

> The Colubriloth is barely able to stand after all of that ... but stand it does.


Argh I forgot the tentacle attacks again. Downside of having company for the week. Were most of the attacks I made hits? Gauging for power attack. It resisted each of those Staggering Blows?

AC 47. Cloak of Displacement (20%, low is good)



> far claw (1d20+27)[33], damage(2d6+13)[19] + 1 negative level
> far claw (1d20+27)[43], damage(2d6+13)[22] + 1 negative level


(1d100)[*26*]
(1d100)[*20*]




> (1d20+36)[54], damage(4d6+15)[29]
> claw (1d20+30)[49], damage(1d8+3)[11] + bleeding wound


(1d100)[*89*]
(1d100)[*83*]




> The mirror images remain, as an area effect does not target the illusions


Oops. At least we know about one of their resistances now.

I'm guessing grabbing Center and throwing him behind me out of the blades will be more than a couple of iteratives during my attack sequence.

Hoping their magics can go away, though them dead is even better.

----------


## kinem

> The Colubriloth is stunned for 1 round, even if it made the fort save vs stun ray.  Which means that it can't take actions until after the beginning of Eilyra's turn.  Unless it has a way to counter that?


The Tekinto dispelled the Stun Ray. I conclude that would work because the spell has a duration; it is not an instantaneous effect.

Most of Avakuss attacks were hits, though now its AC will be better. Yes, it made the Fort saves vs stun.

----------


## Archmage1

Disjunction? There doesn't seem to be a dispel check?
Is anyone else affected by the dispel?

----------


## kinem

It was a targeted dispel. I made the Dispel Check roll, just not on the forum, because I needed to know the result of it before I could write the rest of the post.

----------


## Archmage1

That would explain that.   :Small Smile:   DC 33(Her CL is higher than her HD).  Sadly, making your own spells more resistant to dispelling is challenging.

Rounds Eilyra has been useless:  2

----------


## kinem

What she did was countered mainly by luck, thats all. Avakuss might have brought down the Colubriloth thanks to the stun, it just didnt quite happen.

The Tekinto needed to roll a 13 on the die. I remember the result: 13 🙀

----------


## Archmage1

Since I am feeling slightly salty(Just a little.  Downside of being sleepy):  Would Avakuss(And Center) needs to roll against the blade barrier at this time?

Blade barrier's initial damage to creatures in it occurs when cast, but as this one was cast in time stop, he was immune to that check.  The normal effects of blade barrier are to take damage when passing through.

And just standing in a blade barrier doesn't do any damage:  You need to be passing through it to take damage.

----------


## kinem

While RAW are perhaps debatable, the Time Stop affects the caster and is instantaneous as far as others see. While he cant target creatures, area effects with a duration are treated as if cast when the Time Stop ends. This ruling applies to PC spells too, of course, if you have Time Stop.

Also, standing in the Blade Barrier thereafter would certainly cause damage as if passing through. Its not spelled out in the spell but its clear to me that it makes sense. This will become an issue for Center.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  Time stop buff confirmed!   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

So... as I sort of find myself not really able to make a solid IC post, does anyone see any issues with Eilyra turning Center into an elemental of some sort to break the paralysis/stun, and maybe dispelling the blade barrier? 

PaO does remove the limitation of types that things can be transformed into(I believe, per the turn one thing into another text overriding the limits of polymorph)  Sadly, SU, SP, and SLA are out, but...)

I'm not sure how helpful(Or not) actually dispelling the blade barrier might be;

----------


## Cavir

Dispelling the blades and unholy aura would be helpful. Avakuss can put up with the blades for a bit but don't know how long Center will last standing in the midst of so many jigs.  Transforming or teleporting him would help too.

----------


## Archmage1

Sounds like dispel + pao are the best choices, then. I'll post when I get home (5ish hours from now.)

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note, how mad would avakuss be if he gets hit with an area dispel? That would also allow Eilyra to try for the mirror image as well.

----------


## Cavir

That would probably get at least him if not others killed. He'd lose size, str bonuses, much of his AC (which helped a lot these past rounds), and would greatly lower his saves that are already being lowered by the negative levels. He's at 3 neg levels so far. He wasn't able to kill the cleric with a full attack and his next attacks will be weaker and make me do more saves or lose more STR :/
The few hits the Nyc is getting in is the least concerning as long as AC stays up. Target ted Dispel would probably be better. Avakuss has Dispelling Buffer on for a +5 resist to dispels but the neg levels are cutting into that.
I have to lose another 6th level power, guess it'll be Mind Blank, Personal. 
Taric just missing that Banishment save is a huge blow.

----------


## Archmage1

He would only be at risk of losing one spell. But I'll see whether there is an area that will get only enemies, or skip the mirror image.

----------


## kinem

Sadly, I made a mistake: The Tekinto used its swift action to Dispel, so it would not have cast Wraithstrike this time. That means it missed its attack vs Avakuss 🙀😝

----------


## Archmage1

Hm.  Looking at the map, I think Eilyra can get the greater dispel magic to hit the Nycaloth, the Colubriloth, and the blade barrier(And Center of All, but meh).  Basically, targeting in the air near the northern door should do it

----------


## Archmage1

Anywho well... the blade barrier is hopefully gone, but I think Eilyra is unlikely to succeed against the unholy aura or the mirror image.(Technically, she could succeed against both, assuming that they are being cast at the lowest CL.  However, as CL is probably the HD of both, not likely.)

----------


## kinem

Checking the PAO vs Center's SR: (1d20+24)[*44*] vs SR 32

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, the downside of PaO: You don't get the EX, SU, or SLA abilities of the creatures you turn into.

So most of what Center is getting as the dragon is the dragon type(Which grants immunity to paralysis, even though the stat line for Amethyst dragon explicitly also includes the same immunity as an EX).  This is the main reason Eilyra went with a dragon over an elemental(Well, ok, this and dragons having better stats)

He does, however, get hp equal to his HD restored(Whoo.), as well as bonus hp from con.  And a lot of physical attacks.  As well as his own, original EX and SLA and SU stuff.

Incidentally, the Nycaloth missed Eilyra by quite a lot.  In multiple ways.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## kinem

> Incidentally, the Nycaloth missed Eilyra by quite a lot.  In multiple ways.


He really misses you a lot 😻

----------


## Archmage1

It does seem to be playing hard to get.  First, it ignores the squishy taunting it, in favor of hitting the not squishy, but when she moves away, it tries to stop her...

----------


## Toliudar

Sending out mixed signals while dating is what REALLY makes them fiends.

----------


## Archmage1

Er... Assay SR shouldn't need an attack, unless something funky is happening?

----------


## Cavir

> Er... Assay SR shouldn't need an attack, unless something funky is happening?


Yeah, the spell says "Target: You"

----------


## kinem

PAO inherits the 15 HD limit from Polymorph, so it turned Center in to a Juvenile form of the dragon instead. Also, like Polymorph it grants Extraordinary Special Attacks but does not grant Extraordinary Special Qualities such as Immunity to Paralysis.

Archmage: In light of the above I'm going to allow Eilyra to retcon her last action if desired, as she knows a lot about magic.

Bleeding Wounds (Ex): A wound from a nycaloth's claw attack continues to bleed after the injury was inflicted. Each wound bleeds for 1 point of damage per round thereafter. Multiple claw wounds result in cumulative bleeding loss (two wounds deal 2 points of damage per round, and so on). The bleeding can be stopped only by a successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other healing spell (heal, mass heal, and so on).

Assay Spell Resistance indeed does not require an attack roll.

Rather than go by a strict initiative order, to speed PBP play actions happen in the order in which they are posted. Thus Ash's Avasculate spell will happen after the other PCs have acted.

----------


## Archmage1

The 15 HD limit, maybe.  I think that it does overrule the 15 hd limit:

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another.
Unlike the language of both Alter Self and Polymorph, it does not go on to then place limits on what it can turn things into.
Perhaps importantly, the examples it goes on to give would be impossible if that line does not overrule the limitations present in Polymorph.(For example, as a pebble has no HD, under the HD limitations of Polymorph it would not be possible to turn said pebble into a human, as the human has more HD.)

My view on it is that limiting it to 1 HD per CL is reasonable.

However, it does most definitely break the paralysis by any reading of PaO and Polymorph.  Not because of the Amethyst dragon's EX ability.  But because it does change the creature type to dragon, and dragons are, by type, immune to paralysis.  This is not an EX ability, it is just a part of being a dragon, as Center is now.  (For reference, The subjects creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form., end of the first paragraph)

----------


## Cavir

A human is a 1HD creature, so the Pebble to human example (0HD to 1HD) doesn't break the 15HD limit. Maybe over time research a Greater PAO that goes beyond 15HD?

----------


## Archmage1

It absolutely breaks the HD limits.

Polymorph explicitly cares about both the CL of the caster and the HD of the initial target.  As a pebble has no HD, it can't be turned into a human with 1 HD by polymorph rules.

----------


## kinem

The shrew to manticore example more clearly breaks the HD of the initial target limit. From what Ive gathered on the internet, the way most people play it is to keep the 15 HD limit to prevent broken use of the spell, but not impose the initial HD of the target limit.

Immunities are EX abilities, and thus special qualities, whether that is spelled out or not. However, a lot of people apparently do allow PAO to grant the special qualities given by the Type, as PAO does give the Type.

I will go with the following rulings:
15 HD limit for creature Polymorphed into
No templates given
Immunities of the Type are given

I dont know if I will have time to make an IC post today.

----------


## Archmage1

Templates are a nope regardless, and both Polymorph and PaO do grant type, which gives the stuff type gives.

15 HD limit it is.  Sadly, the lack of EX and SU is sad, but, alas, such is life.  There is shapechange.  And I can never remember what tag goes along with spellcasting.  I think EX, but it has been a long time since I found a source for that.

But under those conditions, Juve Amethyst dragon is about as good as it gets for breaking paralysis.

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## Archmage1

Mirror Image:  Annoying.  And why Eilyra went after the Tekinto.  She could have cast true strike, and attacked blindly, but that seems a little silly.

----------


## Archmage1

And I failed to remember that she does get skirmish damage.

(1d6)[*6*] Attack 1
(1d6)[*1*] Attack 2
(1d6)[*5*] Attack 3
(1d6)[*6*] Attack 4

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## Cavir

Wow, they really (understandably) focused on me. Sorting it all out here. Feel free to point out mistakes.



> Active effects I placed them in order listed on my sheet, trying to find some way of being fair, which already includes Dispelling Buffer being last as per its description.
> 1) PW1: Precognition, Defensive 
> 2) PW1:Expansion
> 3) PW1: Inertial Armor +13 AC 
> 4) PW4: Extended Energy Adaptation 
> 5) PW4: Steadfast Perception Extended
> 6) PW5: Adapt Body
> 7) PW6: Mind Blank, Personal
> 8) PW6: Form of Doom
> 9) PW6: Dispelling Buffer





> OOC: Dispel checks: I'm not really sure how many are needed
> (1d20+20)[*38*], (1d20+20)[*34*], (1d20+20)[*30*], (1d20+20)[*35*]
> (1d20+20)[*21*], (1d20+20)[*22*], (1d20+20)[*25*], (1d20+20)[*26*]


CL 21 - 2 (neg levels) +5 (Buffer) = DC 24
One more roll needed for the buffer itself: (1d20+20)[*39*]
So... 
AC/Saves severely dropped
Back to regular size
Form of Doom gone

Dispel result: AC31, 2 neg levels, 212/297hp after 1 level of bleeding, Weakened (-8 Str)




> It then targets Avakuss with its Far Claw ability, though without the benefit of Wraithstrike:
> Far Claw (1d20+27)[36], damage (2d6+13)[23] + 1 negative level
> Far Claw (1d20+27)[41], damage (2d6+13)[21] + 1 negative level


Both hit: 46 damage, 2 neg levels (extra 10 damage)
--> 156/297, 4 neg levels, , Weakened (-8 Str)




> The Nycaloth then attempts to finish him off with its huge greataxe and claws:
> (1d20+41)[58], damage(4d6+15)[29]
> (1d20+36)[48], damage(4d6+15)[26]
> (1d20+31)[48], damage(4d6+15)[31]
> (1d20+26)[28], damage(4d6+15)[28]
> claw (1d20+30)[32], damage(1d8+3)[10] + bleeding wound
> claw (1d20+30)[43], damage(1d8+3)[6] + bleeding wound


All but one hit: 102 damage, 2 more bleeding wounds (3 total)
--> 54/297, 4 neg levels, , Weakened (-8 Str)   *BUT STILL UP!*




> Ash: Restoration on him, to remove the negative levels, and maybe the weakening effect?
> And a swift action to cast Quickened Heal to restore 150 HP of damage.


Neg levels removed (+20hp), Weakened removed, +150 hp, bleeding healed
--> 224hp, AC31

----------


## Archmage1

Oof.  Wait...

DC 24 seems really, really low.

The DC should be 11 + CL.  The negative levels shouldn't apply if your spells were cast before you got them as well.
So the DC should be 35-37, depending on when the negative levels were applied.  And as I'm pretty sure your extended energy adaption was applied before the fight...

I think only your Defensive Precognition would be noped?(Incidentally, this is why Disjunction is handy.  Despite the disenchant thing, the certainty of dispel is nice.  Otherwise, you only have a <50% chance of dispelling equal level effects, which is not ideal.

----------


## Cavir

Happy to be wrong, thanks! Multitasking too much last night. DC 36. I think that's the first targeted Greater Dispel on me in any game. I'll redo things tonight.

----------


## Toliudar

Gpotta love the sheer, intense math-ness of high level 3.5.

----------


## Archmage1

Just imagine if we had a bard along!

Oof.  Failed to include the +1 attack bonus from Haste as well.

----------


## kinem

Indeed.

BTW, Eilyras attacks hit and wounded the Tekinto but its still up and kicking. Avakuss to act

----------


## Cavir

> Just imagine if we had a bard along!


We do have a slot available. What bard wouldn't want to take part in defeating a god!

----------


## Cavir

So let's try that round's damage/results again since I screwed up the resistance to dispelling.




> Active effects I placed them in order listed on my sheet, trying to find some way of being fair, which already includes Dispelling Buffer being last as per its description.
> 1) PW1: Precognition, Defensive
> 2) PW1:Expansion
> 3) PW1: Inertial Armor +13 AC
> 4) PW4: Extended Energy Adaptation
> 5) PW4: Steadfast Perception Extended
> 6) PW5: Adapt Body
> 7) PW6: Mind Blank, Personal
> 8) PW6: Form of Doom
> 9) PW6: Dispelling Buffer





> OOC: Dispel checks: I'm not really sure how many are needed
> (1d20+20)[*38*], (1d20+20)[34], (1d20+20)[30], (1d20+20)[35]
> (1d20+20)[21], (1d20+20)[22], (1d20+20)[25], (1d20+20)[26] 
> (1d20+20)[*39*]


Dispel DC is (11 Base + 21 CL + 5 Dispel Buff) = 37
Defensive Precognition and Dispelling Buffer are dispelled.
Dispel result: AC41, 2 neg levels, 212/297hp after 1 level of bleeding, Weakened (-8 Str)




> It then targets Avakuss with its Far Claw ability, though without the benefit of Wraithstrike:
> Far Claw (1d20+27)[36], damage (2d6+13)[23] + 1 negative level
> Far Claw (1d20+27)[41], damage (2d6+13)[21] + 1 negative level


One hit for 21 damage plus 1neg level
--> 191/297, 3 neg levels, 1 lvl bleeding, Weakened (-8 Str)




> The Nycaloth then attempts to finish him off with its huge greataxe and claws:
> (1d20+41)[58], damage(4d6+15)[29]
> (1d20+36)[48], damage(4d6+15)[26]
> (1d20+31)[48], damage(4d6+15)[31]
> (1d20+26)[28], damage(4d6+15)[28]
> claw (1d20+30)[32], damage(1d8+3)[10] + bleeding wound
> claw (1d20+30)[43], damage(1d8+3)[6] + bleeding wound


Last axe and first claw missed. Glad there weren't any axe crits!
92 damage + 1 more bleeding wound
--> 99/297, 3 neg levels, 2 lvl bleeding, Weakened (-8 Str)




> Ash: Restoration on him, to remove the negative levels, and maybe the weakening effect?
> And a swift action to cast Quickened Heal to restore 150 HP of damage.


Removal of neg levels gives me back 10hp too.
--> 259/297hp, 41AC. No more bleeding, neg levels, or weakened. Still have most of my buffs.
*slight* upgrade in the situation  :Small Big Grin: 

Need to redo the buffs on my char sheet since I had already made the update there :/

Just remembered I didn't roll for displacement and that Form of Doom gives me DR 5/-. At this point I'll skip them this round for simplicity.

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Please clarify the mechanics of Avakuss' Staggering Blow ability.

I see that in your latest IC post you mention DC 34, but in a previous post it was DC 26. If it would have changed, I don't know why.

Also: the feat text says it happens on a confirmed critical, not just on a hit. If you have an ability that upgrades it, where does that come from?

I am sure that if there were any errors in your posts they were unintentional, I just need to know the correct mechanics.

The Tekinto has an AC of 41 (43 vs good) and used Moment of Prescience to dodge Avakuss' first blow.

----------


## Archmage1

Aw... that means no fun temp hp for Eilyra.  And here I was thinking that she might have more HP than Avakuss.   :Small Frown:

----------


## Cavir

Going back to check the feat. UGH you are right. "Whenever you confirm a critical hit with a melee attack that deals bludgeoning or nonlethal damage for which you have the Improved Critical feat your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Strength modifier) or be stunned for one round." 
SORRY!  I don't remember it ever actually working in this game fortunately. 

Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Strength modifier)
10 + 10 + 14
I had skimped myself on the +4 STR bonus from Form of Doom plus had the -8 Str (weakened) and neg levels earlier. That would explain the 6 pt difference.

The lower part of my spell section has various calculations. The STR one is recently added since the buffs kept changing.
STR: Base 24 + 6 belt + 4 Huge + 4 Form of Doom = 38 (+14)

Sorry  :Small Red Face:

----------


## Archmage1

Does the Tekinto seem to be taking reduced damage from Eilyra's attacks?  And is there any point to me rolling the fire damage?

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Understood. These things happen with all of this complexity. The Heal did not remove the Strength penalty so I think he still has it.

AM1: The damage seems a bit reduced by about 10 points per hit. There is no need to roll the fire damage.

----------


## Cavir

Heal deals with ability damage but reviewing now- seems Blasphemy's affect is more a penalty with a duration so not the same thing? So... -4 to my rolls and the Staggering Blow DC. The crit threat of 39 (now down to 35) is probably a miss but is a Nat20 too.

----------


## Toliudar

Time for Ash to memorize Revive Outsider...

Just to confirm a few details before posting an action for Ash:

Spellcraft to identify spells and SLA's used to depart (I'm assuming they're teleports, but just to be sure: (1d20+33)[*46*] (1d20+33)[*43*].  If any of these are actually spells, she automatically identifies the effect.

Also: safe to assume that she can no longer sense any of them telepathically?

----------


## Archmage1

And some diamond collecting.  I suppose Ash could borrow Eilyra's vest, recover her Miracle, and then just use that?

What spell the Tekinto used to remove the bodies as well, however, is... interesting.  Teleport and Plane Shift would not be sufficient.  Neither would any form of invisibility I am familiar with.

----------


## Archmage1

(1d20+38)[*46*] Spellcraft:  Eilyra's attempt to identify the spell effect used.

*Edit*:  I'm not sure if the PaO actually ends with Center's death.  While polymorph does end on the target's death, PaO seems to override, as the reverting to the original form text is removed.

"Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature"

If it doesn't end, then revivify or some other raising method would work, simplifying the restoration of Center.

----------


## kinem

You cant use Spellcraft to ID a SLA, which it definitely was. If you had to guess though, it might have used Timestop, grabbed the bodies, and then used Teleport or Planeshift to escape. Of course, Wish or Miracle would also have worked.

Its not clear, but to keep things simple, I will say that the body changes back to its original form upon the creatures death.

----------


## Archmage1

I mean... you can, by the identify a spell that is already in place and in effect piece.

I do have to admit, quicken SLA is quite powerful when taken multiple times on multiple enemies, especially when there is absolutely no possible response to said abilities. 2 actions per round is nice.    :Small Big Grin: 

But that is ok.  I presume that Eilyra's sword is still covered in the Tekinto's blood?  If she stores it in her glove, would the blood also be stored successfully?(And thus be retrievable for later use in scrying/locate creature/whatever other divination effects we have access to?)

From a response perspective... there is always the nope button. Eilyra does have Wish, and enough XP to cast it(Once.)  But that seems like a bad plan, really.  As is, Eilyra will probably hit epic within a couple of encounters, but at the rate we gain XP, she won't recover the XP for Wish any time soon.

----------


## Archmage1

Well... assuming that Eilyra can quickly and easily store the blood in a protected, secure location(Well, hammerspace), she might just make some unarmed attacks at the Nycaloth to break some of the images, and to provoke?  With PA being used, it is unlikely to hit her.

----------


## kinem

> I presume that Eilyra's sword is still covered in the Tekinto's blood?  If she stores it in her glove, would the blood also be stored successfully?


That seems plausible enough.

----------


## Archmage1

Hopefully, that sets up Avakuss fairly well, and the flanking bonus should give him a solid chance to hit.  Any AoO is highly likely to miss(Go attack penalty for power attack applying for a round.)

Edit:  She may or may not be proficient in unarmed strikes, depending on how you want to handle that.  However, as the goal is to disperse images... it shouldn't matter in the least.

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## Archmage1

Would Discern Location give sufficient information to allow for a greater teleport?

----------


## kinem

Generally speaking it would not, unless the location is a place you have already seen or at least heard a description of.

Discern Location tells you what a place is called. You could follow up on that by talking to someone who knows what the place looks like, which might then let you teleport there, if they can give you a good description.

----------


## Archmage1

That is a pity.  I suppose the traditional methods are traditional for a reason after all.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Cavir

Tentacle rolls were wrong. Correcting:
T1: (2d8+5)[*14*]
T2: (2d8+5)[*17*]
T3: (2d8+5)[*14*]
T4: (2d8+5)[*12*]

----------


## tonberryking

_*waves*_

Hello everybody, I've been invited to this game as a replacement.  I was the dude who made the Soul Knife centaur Rush: a rather surly sort living for the momet after finding out she'd been brainwashed for an indeterminant amount of time to the point where all her memories were destroyed.

She does own a mostly intact castle in Sigil, though!

----------


## kinem

Welcome, TBK. While you wait for the PC to be introduced, feel free to tweak the build and read the IC thread. The other PCs are fairly high powered IMO, just as a point of reference.

----------


## tonberryking

Neat.  Did they level up any before now?  Should I add levels?

----------


## kinem

There havent been any level-ups yet. Keep the original level for now. If some PCs level up we can revisit that question.

----------


## tonberryking

Hrm.

Honestly, I'm still pretty satisfied with Rush's lay out, though I kind of wish there was a way to amp up her AC without giving up the castle...

----------


## kinem

Maybe change out that Flaw to start with

----------


## Archmage1

AC 44 does compare fairly well with the AC of Ash and Avakuss.  Eilyra's is higher, but on the other hand, she basically spent a solid 70% of her gold on defense.

----------


## tonberryking

I did swap out the flaw for something else and also changed two feats so I DID manage to get hers up to 45 (and keep her castle) which I can certainly live with.  Also I forgot she has a luck stone which once per day can add a crapton of AC to her score.  And if anybody ever casts Shield of Faith (which stacks TMK) on her, even better.

Also... how...notorious are our PCs supposed to be? Aren't we considered to be some of the most powerful non-deities around?

----------


## kinem

A Luckstone adds +1 Luck to AC, saves, and skills. It has no once per day ability.

Shield of Faith would give a Deflection bonus, which does not stack with your existing Deflection bonus from the ring.

The party will usually be Hasted during combat, so thats another +1 in practice.

Ill say that its a DC 20 Knowledge (local) check to have heard of another PC, and DC 30 to know in depth / current situation.

----------


## tonberryking

Dang it, I'm sorry; I must have found the wrong entry; I forgot why I had it and was trying to look it up after so long. But with the luckstone and haste, a 47 is pretty good for a frontliner built more around LASER DEATH SWORD than defense.

Now I just need to find the picture/layout of the keep I had in mind for Rush.  I remember that the front gate is actually smashed and caved in, preventing normal entry (Rush just flies over it or warps through it) which along wither her reputation (and the fact the castle was already 'mostly looted") keeps mundane burglars away.

----------


## Toliudar

Welcome, TonberryKing!  Everyone else has been pretty self-sufficient, but as we get into the swing of things, Ash might be able to provide some buffing to Rush as need be.

I was assuming that there'd be blood on the ground and walls as welll, which we might be able to use to assist with scrying.  Kinem, does that seem reasonable?  And scrying one of them could be combined with Find the Path, with the destination "that cave I'm looking at right now."

----------


## Archmage1

Also, derp:  Welcome, tonberryking.   :Small Big Grin: 

Find the path is much, much better in 3.5 than 5e(Something about NOT needing to have already been there to use it.  Strange how that makes a spell to get somewhere actually useful?).

But... if we can do scrying... we can just use greater teleport.  My hope for discern location was more in the lower cast time(10 minutes vs 1 hour for scrying).

Once we kill off the remaining demon, we can probably figure out what was going on here, then go after the retreating Tekinto before it does something else nasty.
And this time, Eilyra won't hold back.(Of course, this will burn through most of her high level spells, but...)

Although, we might want to use miracle to bring back Center, since, well... it is much cheaper than the alternatives?  Probably, anyway.  Reasons why miracle is much more useful than Wish in 3.5.  Sure, wish is more powerful, but it is also a lot more expensive in all cases.

----------


## kinem

> I was assuming that there'd be blood on the ground and walls as welll, which we might be able to use to assist with scrying.  Kinem, does that seem reasonable?


Yes, though it might be hard to get a pure sample. In such a case, I would say it counts as a partial connection (-4, not -10, to the save).

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d20)[*20*]

----------


## Archmage1

This, alas, is why Eilyra is currently swordless, as she stuff on her sword is not mixed.   :Small Big Grin: 

That is a lot of quicken SLA.  Derp.  The strange math version is 3x.
I should have maybe cast ironguard sooner.

----------


## Toliudar

> Also, derp:  Welcome, tonberryking.  
> 
> But... if we can do scrying... we can just use greater teleport.  My hope for discern location was more in the lower cast time(10 minutes vs 1 hour for scrying).


If Eilyra can 'see' Ash's scrying, then that sounds great.  Ash has greater scrying, which should speed the process along.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra can cast detect thoughts, which should let her see what Ash is seeing during the scry.   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

So, bets on whether the Nycaloth is going to run this coming round?  It is out of mirror images and is at half health, and may have recognized the spell Eilyra cast...

----------


## Toliudar

I'm travelling until August 1st, and my schedule and internet access will both be extremely unpredictable. Please proceed without me as needed if I start to hold things up.  Apologies in advance.

----------


## Archmage1

Enjoy your trip!

----------


## kinem

Toliudar, have a good trip.

To move things along: any player have an idea for her next action?

AM: Im not saying the fiend is likely to run soon. But the creature is starting to do leg stretches and you think its name might be Forrest.

----------


## Archmage1

Slow, maybe?  I think between Eilyra and Avakuss, the Nycaloth isn't going to win, and if it doesn't flee this round, it is likely going to die.

Fever dream, if it affects SLA's?

Sadly, I don't really see any spells that she can access that would effectively prevent the Nycaloth from using greater teleport.

In retrospect... Eilyra should probably do a lot more dimensional locking in the future.  Curse these limited spell slots, and wanting to cast other things!

----------


## Cavir

Dimension Lock in there somewhere? Dominate Monster?
I wonder if the others escaped through the gate. If it tries to run through, Avakuss will grapple. Combat Reflexes may help since I am crowding it in. Avakuss also has an item that grants an AoO when missed in melee. Didn't use a swift action this turn so that's an option if it attacks too.

----------


## Archmage1

She does have dominate monster, however I am hesitant to burn high level slots without explicit permission.  Sadly, Teleport Prevention(Dimensional Anchor, Dimension Lock) are not in her list of spells.

Insanity could maybe do it?

This is an advanced Nycaloth Commander as well.  Assuming the Will Save has been boosted by a similar amount as the attacks, we're looking at a +22 will save(And 34? SR), which is problematical.  Even dominate monster has a ~25% chance of success.

TLDR:  I am somewhat peeved at the fairly high SR of these enemies.  On the other hand, this is why Outsiders suck to fight as casters at high levels, because they have high SR and high saves with no significant weaknesses.  Especially when both Ash and Eilyra have less than ideal spell selections for a high SR high save fight.

----------


## kinem

This is a tough fight (ECL 23) to capture a significant objective (the second gate).

I think it would not be inappropriate to use a high level spell slot if that seems likely to help.

----------


## Archmage1

So... anyway, assuming a +22 Will save, and a 31 SR(Assuming CR 21+10 SR)

Ash could...
Attempt Dominate Monster(She needs to roll a 11 or better(50%) and then the monster needs to roll a 9 or lower(50%), for a 22.5% chance of success.
Cast Insanity(Monster needs to roll a 7 or lower, for a 17.5% chance)
Cast Fever Dream(Monster needs to roll a 4 or lower, and then a 1)(5% chance.)
Cast Slow(Monster needs to roll a 3 or lower) 8% chance.  Also, doesn't stop the teleport
(As you can see, the combination of high SR and high saves makes most of her spells, which require both, to have an effect fairly ineffective)

She could try using her quickened darkfire, and readying to toss.  A 50% chance to deal 5d6 untyped damage(average 15), to try to break concentration(Injury DC would be ~32.  Unfortunately, I think that is low enough that the advanced Nycaloth Commander will auto-succeed).
She might, however, be able to move into position to flank it, which would allow her to add her sneak attack(9d6) damage to that, which would add enough to the concentration check DC that it would be unlikely to succeed.

Her touch attack is high enough that she will probably hit, and it can be used as a melee attack...
Quickened darkfire is probably her most likely way to prevent the teleportation(A roughly 50% chance of success)  Cast, move to flank, ready to attack if it tries to cast a SLA.  It does, however, have to be quickened.

Edit:  Of course, that also puts her into melee range with it(Has to be melee, so she can sneak attack).  If it decides to fight, and knows that Avakuss is now basically invulnerable(Which it will, with a spellcraft of ~27), it will be left with Eilyra or Ash, and of the two, Ash is far, far more vulnerable.  Although, the starmantle cloak means that she won't die, as she takes half damage from weapons(Unless she rolls a 1 on her reflex save)
Also, this does assume that it can't move, then cast, but with any luck, Avakuss can nope any attempt to move away without withdrawing.
Sadly, Moment of Prescience doesn't apply against SR.

----------


## Archmage1

But anywho...
I think the sneak attack plan, while risky, is the most likely to succeed.  Dominate monster is the next best thing to attempt, but with a 1/4 chance of working, I'm not really enamored by the idea.

I might be overestimating the SR(Or underestimating).  We do know that a 33 was enough to beat it in the past(I think.  Per here, it resisted her previous dominate monster spell, which I think means that it made the save, but if the SR failed, that means it has an SR of 34 at the lowest, which would require a 14 or better on Ash's SR check.  That would reduce her chances of success significantly).  But unless it is significantly lower, it isn't going to make much of a difference(And any difference will be shared by the darkfire plan, which doesn't need to worry about a save.)

Darkfire's key advantage is in not needing a save, and I don't think she has any no SR spells available that would be useful here.  With that combined with her sneak attack... I think that is her most likely to succeed option.  Plus, if it tries to kill her instead, we get another round to put it down.
Edit:  Mind you, if she actually dies, that would be highly inconvenient, since unless Avakuss has a raise effect, Eilyra's only option there would be Wish.  So we would need to go somewhere to find a cleric to do the raising.

----------


## kinem

If Ash is worried about SR, its worth noting that she has Assay Spell Resistance on her spell list.

----------


## Archmage1

Sadly... even with that, she is still more likely to succeed at disrupting the teleport with a readied action and no assay sr.  Unless I am overestimating the SR by 3 or more.

Edit:  Sorry, reasoning a bit:
Ignoring SR, with a Will of ~22, that's a 50% chance for it to make the save vs Dominate Monster.

That is comparable to the Darkflame sneak attack plan assuming SR 31.  If the SR is higher then those chances drop.

But... I am also estimating the will as well.

----------


## kinem

> Has to be melee, so she can sneak attack


I should also point out that she can use Sudden Insight as an immediate action to deny the target of her next attack its Dexterity bonus to AC, and thus to sneak attack.

----------


## Archmage1

Melee is probably better, since it also lets her tempt it into attacking her(And if it is attacking, it hopefully doesn't have greater teleport as a swift as well.)


I suppose that is the question:  Try a 4th level and a 9th level, or a 7th level, with potentially the same chance, depending on what, exactly the creature's will and SR are.  

The book Commander has a SR 24, and a will of +17.  This one has clearly been advanced(Estimating around 10 extra HD, to get the attack to a +40).  That would give it +5 to will, and SR adjustments are up to the DM.  However, they are usually calculated based on the CR.  A Nycaloth Commander has a SR of CR+7.  
With the swift mirror image, +10 attack, higher AC, it is a significantly greater threat than the CR 17.  CR 21 probably isn't an unreasonable level(It has a fairly solid chance against an individual character of that level).  That would put it at SR 28).(For comparison, a Balor, CR 20, seems weaker than the advanced commander.  Mind you, the Summon Demon ability really messes with the CR, as you could make the argument that the Balor does the smart thing, and chain gates in Balors, which seems like it might be a little excessive at CR 20)(For a fun side note, I did a few practice battles with the advanced Eilyra when we were first starting, and a Balor was among them.  She lost.  Badly.  Turns out, Implosion is nasty.  Especially when you fail that save.)

Which would leave the darkflame as more likely to succeed, as compared to the 9th level spell, even if we can ignore SR with the 9th level spell.

Sadly, saves grow faster than spell DC's at high level.

----------


## Archmage1

At the end of the day, however... you are the DM.

You could just go with whichever is more likely to succeed?   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

Well... we have two plans, either could work, and we don't want to leave our legendary King waiting for too long...

(1d2)[*1*] What plan?
1 is the ever delightful Assay SR + Dominate Monster.
2 is Quicken Darkfire, move, Ready.

----------


## tonberryking

I cannot post easily until Sunday so if you want to plan a little longer Im with family celebrating a birthday.

----------


## Archmage1

That is a distinctly not ideal set of miss rolls.

So, time to cast Greater Mirror Image.

(1d4+5)[*6*] Images
(Hit on the max roll), 3 potential hits(Attack 2, 3, and 5)
(1d10)[*8*]
(1d9)[*6*]
(1d8)[*5*]
(1d7)[*6*](Miss)
(1d6)[*6*](Hit)
(1d5)[*1*](Need to roll another)
(1d4)[*3*]
(1d3)[*3*]

----------


## Archmage1

(1d6)[*2*] Attack 3(Hit on a 6)(Miss, 4 images remaining)

Overall, this was not, I think, a good battle.

Any XP?  I think the next plan was to take a quick look around, then demonstrate that greater scrying + Detect Thoughts + Greater teleport should let us follow.

----------


## Archmage1

Of course, the one hit is, in fact, a crit, so assuming nothing fancy occurs on said crit... (4d6+15)[*36*] Crit bonus damage.  69 damage total.  Very nice.  Confirmation in the next response, which failed.

----------


## Archmage1

... Right, also, confirmation.  It is too early in the morning.  (1d20+32)[*47*]  Ok, not a crit.

Eilyra is at 223/226 hp.

----------


## Archmage1

So...

Do we investigate the tower further now, or go after the fleeing fiends?  It will take ~3 rounds to catch them(Probably).  That would let our round per level buffs remain up.

----------


## Archmage1

The choices...

We could just kill the skeroloth, but... it occurs to me that we might want to NOT do that, in the interest of interrogation.

We might introduce ourselves as "Me.", and obviate the command that way  Of course, we will want to prevent the fiend from issuing further commands.  
Assuming Rush was willing to play along, we could also likely tell a lie to get Rush to move more than 100 feet away... at which point the fiend would be unable to contact Rush.

We might also dispel the effect on Rush, or just cast protection from evil, and include her.

The real question:  What questions to ask?
(1d20+36)[*52*] Know:  Planes(Also, knowledge devotion)
(1d20+36)[*45*] Know:  Local(Also, knowledge devotion, if it matters)

----------


## tonberryking

I like the "Hi, my name is Me" plan, personally.  It's hilarious.

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss
Knowledge(Planes) (1d20+7)[*21*]
Knowledge(local) (1d20+7)[*27*]

Ash
Knowledge(Planes) (1d20+18)[*31*]
Knowledge(local) (1d20+23)[*32*]

----------


## Archmage1

As always, if you would like social rolls, please, let me know.  Or roll them?  Eilyra manages a +8 in diplo and bluff, and a +6 in intimidate.
Why yes, she is great at social.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Archmage1

And now, Eilyra is all out of level 8 spells.  Tis a very sad thing.

I suppose she'll use a few pearls while checking the desk as well?  Also, 
(1d20+16)[*33*] Search
(1d20+38)[*42*] Spellcraft
and
[roll]1d20+36(Know arcana, planes, local, nature, or religion about the stuff on the desk.)

----------


## Archmage1

And because I can't type... (1d20+36)[*50*]

----------


## tonberryking

Im going to assume that turning him into a rock is very protective and not a betrayal at all, so Rush wont attack.

Otoh, does the little bastard still have the bottle or did he drop it/ can it be taken?

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra was totally upfront about the spell.  It will ensure the creature's safety until Eilyra gets sick of it...

----------


## Archmage1

Current objective?  Loot the room of everything that isn't nailed down, the nails, and then everything that isn't nailed down.

As a side note, since Ash actually has ranks in Search(As compared to Eilyra's rank...)
(1d20+37)[*38*] Ash search(The desk)
(1d20+37)[*50*] Ash search(The cabinet, checking for traps)
(1d20+37)[*47*] Ash search(The room.)

----------


## Archmage1

From the sounds of it, the cabinet is hero's feast at will?

----------


## kinem

Close to it .

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magi...inetofFeasting

----------


## Archmage1

Fancy!  And for bonus points:  It doesn't have the requirement to spend an hour.  A mere grape, if consumed, would give immunity do poison, 1d8+10 hp, and +1 attack, will, and fear immunity.  Quite nifty.

And it is all at CL40, so good luck dispelling it.

----------


## tonberryking

So is the bottle the demon was holding turned to stone as well, did he drop it, or can it be recovered?

----------


## Archmage1

All carried gear should have been petrified as well.  Sadly, that means no recovery until the petrification is reversed

----------


## tonberryking

Well, as long as he's stoned for an hour or so, that will break the enchantment on Rush. ...I think.

----------


## Archmage1

That, I think, we can probably manage.  We can also raise Center, who has an aura of pro:  Whatever.  Or Eilyra could cast circle of pro:  evil.  All would work.   :Small Smile: 

After looting, probably time to see if we can scry and die.

----------


## Archmage1

As a spoiler, Eilyra might be slightly biased against enchantment, considering it the school of idiots with no ability.

----------


## Archmage1

Even with the -10, it made the save, or is it somewhere immune to scrying?  Is Ash able to tell the difference?

And how able are Avakuss and Rush at handling mid-air combat?  Eilyra is rather short on spells that could grant other people flight.

----------


## kinem

It is somehow immune to scrying. She can tell the difference, which is why she said the spell is blocked.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  Well... I guess there goes any loot and XP from the combat.  And, to make it worse, we can't scry the bodies either.  And anything that makes it immune to scrying is probably going to make it immune to locate object(Seeing as it is probably mind blank).  

We can still try ambushing the Nycaloth commander.  I know Ash and Eilyra can fly, but I don't know about Avakuss and Rush.  Can they, or is this going to be an Ash and Eilyra special?

(From looking at their sheets, no, but I may have missed something?)

----------


## Archmage1

And, of course, the other important question:  Does the detect thoughts + scrying trick work well enough to allow a teleport to the Nycaloth?

----------


## Archmage1

Since re-reading my posts leads me to see that I have been whining, I would like to clarify that it was a solid, interesting encounter.  A lot of the reason I am feeling frustrated here is because I made a series of poor decisions which led to our current circumstances.

I should not have tried negotiating, with everyone else choosing to fight.  And rather than trying to cast save or sucks, I should acknowledge that Eilyra simply doesn't have DC's high enough on her spells for them to work on near equal CR enemies.  If enemies are going to be running with +26 to their lowest save, any spell that Eilyra has that allows a save is going to fail(DC on her 9ths is 32).  Seeing as this is most of her spell list, that is problematical, and I can't re-work her spell list to avoid saves at this point.
What I should have done(After realizing that the saves were useless) was not hold back, cast time stop, and used the stopped time to cast dimensional lock and Wall of Stone, to prevent escapes.  Instead, well... I figured we had it in the bag, and the cat escaped.  Thus, I am annoyed by myself, and am having difficulties maintaining a bright outlook.

The Blasphemy on the Colubriloth was genius:  High enough CL to knock Taric(Who, as it happened, had left the game), lock down(Or banish) Center, and seriously hamper Avakuss.  The Commander acted as an extremely capable BSF.  The Baelnoroth(Who I thought was the most powerful enemy present) was eliminated at the start, but the Tekinto's combination of long range and level drain + wraithstrike make it quite dangerous.  Add in what I suspect is a broad set of supporting effects(Such as time stop, genuine greater teleport(Rather than the discount version that demons get), and mind blank) and we have a very frustrating opponent.  It was also the first encounter this game where we didn't just smash our way through with relative ease.


In short, I'm sorry, and will do my best to not be so whiny in the future.

----------


## kinem

AM: I appreciate that.

I'll say that the detect thoughts + scrying trick works.

Rush has Wings of Flying. I don't see a way for Avakuss to fly, outside of using a Miracle to cast Fly on him.

*Spoiler: DM stuff*
Show

(1d100)[*11*]

----------


## Archmage1

For reference, if Eilyra wasn't so reserved, she would have called "Yolo!"

----------


## kinem

In D&D its not true 😸

----------


## Archmage1

No, no.  For one, brief shining moment, you live.  Your existence defines the multiverse around you, just as your awesomeness shapes it.  Then, the lights go out, and the multiverse is filled with a strange sensation of loss, as though a tax official's retirement...

The rest of the time, you just... exist.  Meandering from here to there at the whims of uncaring gods, and even more obscure beings...   :Small Tongue:

----------


## kinem

The Nycaloths are flying horizontally about 30' apart with the big one in the lead, at a speed of 60', about 1000' above the ground. Wind is not a factor. How do you want to appear?

Keep this in mind:
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement....hreeDimensions

----------


## Archmage1

I'm thinking ~30 feet above the Nycaloth commander.  With any luck, that will get us surprise.

As a note that will probably be forgotten, Eilyra does have Elemental Body(Air) active, which gives her Air Mastery, which imposes a -1 penalty to enemy attacks and damage rolls against her.).  Also, perfect maneuverability.

----------


## Archmage1

Does anyone else have any other ideas?

----------


## Cavir

> Does anyone else have any other ideas?


Between lack of flight and the mirror images Avakuss can't do anything up there. If the Nycaloth is watching from afar he could be waiting on reinforcements. Since the tower is now dimension locked it also blocks us from escaping while in there so we don't want to get trapped. We're split up in enemy territory and they know where we are. I'm at a loss for the next step. Maybe teleport away then at some point (hours/days?) teleport back a ways away from he tower so that we can observe first then go back in.

Hehe- summon a bunch of hummingbirds to keep pecking away at the mirror images. 
Yes, I'll have a Phoenix Cloak effect added to my cloak once I can afford it (62k) and Ash can Miracle in the effect.

----------


## Archmage1

I'm hopeful that it has not been able to heal in the ~2 minutes that have passed.  If so, it should be fairly low on HP, and if we get a surprise round, Eilyra should be able to hit it with dimensional anchor.  From there, we might be able to take it alive for questions.  Maybe.
Sadly, well... Eilyra doesn't have a great counter to mirror image, beyond closing her eyes.(True sight is expensive, and Eilyra is fairly close to broke.  And I'm pretty sure Taric has the rod of force...)

Hopefully, we can eliminate it(Don't bother with save requiring spells, it's saves are just too high).  And Eilyra doesn't have any summoning prepared.


Outside of killing the Nycaloth, fully exploring the tower and the surroundings(What happened to the reported fiends?), I think we're close to done for what we can do.  The Tekinto is undiscoverable, and we have no information suggesting where it may have fled.  We could use a wish to go there, but 5000 xp is a lot.

----------


## tonberryking

Sorry guys, my head wasn't screwed on straight these past couple days. I'll post again tonight.

----------


## tonberryking

When you say single action only, that means we can't pull off a swift action and a single action?

----------


## kinem

A swift action and standard action are allowed, just not a standard action + move action or the like.

----------


## Archmage1

How much time has passed since the battle in the portal room?  (Specifically asking to determine if haste will have worn off(23 rounds).  Greater Mirror Image should still be active, as it has a duration of 22 minutes)

I presume that the previously mentioned mirror images are still active for the Nycaloth Commander?

----------


## kinem

Haste has worn off. Both Nycaloths are surrounded by mirror images.

----------


## Archmage1

Now, if luck smiles on us a few times, we can probably eliminate another of the super-loths!   :Small Smile: 

We just need to...
Win initiative(Or have the commander NOT flee immediately)
Eilyra needs to not roll a 1 on her to hit roll for dimensional Anchor.  AND she needs to beat SR.

Also, ah... actually kill it.  And not die in the process.  Also, not get everything dispelled(Eilyra has 12 buffs up currently, and would not be able to recast them all if they were removed.).  I really, really hope it is out of swift mirror images.  Those are the worse, and are an excellent example of why spending 250 gold on true sight(Or getting something that grants it, rather than the el-cheapo option of see invis) is a good idea.

----------


## tonberryking

(1d20+32)[*50*]  Rush's attack critted as she has a keen weapon... here's the confirm.

----------


## Archmage1

As for Ash, maybe Good Hope?  4th level, but gives +2 morale to saves, attacks, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.
This could be quite nice, as that means +2 to initiative as well.

----------


## kinem

TBK: What is Rush doing about the Mirror Images? A % roll only applies to concealment; the images do more than that since they present false targets so generally you would have the same chance to strike any of the 8 images as the 9th, real, target. So, you would roll 1d9, unless something else is going on.

AM: Good Hope is Mind-Affecting, so it would not affect Eilyra, who has a Mind Blank on her. Still think Ash should cast it?

----------


## tonberryking

Oh! I misinterpreted what kind of dice I'd need to use; I can roll a d9: (1d9)[*8*]

----------


## Archmage1

Yes.  Going first would be really nice.  And +2 to basically everything is also really nice.   :Small Smile:   The other option was Recitation, but it doesn't apply to ability checks, and good hope does.

For mirror image...
Frankly, the best option is to just close your eyes.  A 50/50 miss chance is much better than a 1 in 9 chance to hit.
Now, normally, one could just blow a round to burn through the mirror images, but... this nycaloth has been casting it as a swift action, which renders this trick moot unless you have a lot of attacks.
Bonus points if you have blindsight or some other extra sense.

----------


## kinem

Rolling initiative for Rush to speed play: (1d20+5)[*25*]

So: Rush acts next, then the 'loths.

----------


## tonberryking

Oh crap, I'm sorry.  last weekend really kinda effed with me, I didn't even realized I hadn't rolled initiative...

...Also, was what Archmage said accurate? If Rush closes her eyes and starts swinging she has a higher chance of hitting her target?

----------


## kinem

Yes, closing eyes would give you the 50% miss chance instead, although if you do that you won't remove any images on a miss. There are 7 images left right now.

----------


## Archmage1

Between Eilyra and Rush, I think we have 8 attacks per round. If it can continue to swift cast mirror image, then blind is our only option. If it has to cast as a standard action, we can strip the images quickly.

----------


## Toliudar

I'm back from two and a half gloriously unplugged weeks, and will get caught up as quickly as I'm able.  Happy August, all!

----------


## Archmage1

Welcome back!  I hope you had a wonderful trip!

We... burned quite a few of Ash's spells in an epic display of futility.
2 4th(Assay SR, Good Hope)
2 8th(Greater Scrying)
1 9th(Dominate Monster)

----------


## tonberryking

Going to post Rushs next action after work today

----------


## Archmage1

So... how goes things?

----------


## tonberryking

Been kind of struggling IRL due to still working retail just as ANOTHER pandemic seems to be starting.

But I am having fun adjusting/getting into the swing of this campaign.  Rush is getting to be more of a meathead than I initially pictured (she was more of "A goth kid with a lower horse body and ungodly strength" initially) and I'm enjoying that.

----------


## Archmage1

You thought Covid was fun?  It was just the warmup for the Pox!

I hope things work out for you IRL  

Rush might be a bit of a meathead, but, then, meatheads can be pretty handy in 3.5.  I hope you have a plan for IC?  to blind, or to try burning through the images and hope it can't keep refreshing them as a swift?

----------


## tonberryking

I just had Rush close her eyes.  She has 4 attacks thanks to haste and that sword of hers is GOING to hurt even if only one of them connect.  Now the issue is: does she connect on a high roll or a low roll?

----------


## Archmage1

Usually?  High hits.  So 1-50 is a miss, 51-99 is a hit.

----------


## Archmage1

Not that the smaller Nycaloth did much, but was it affected by the circle of protection from Evil?

----------


## Archmage1

One hit.  :Small Frown: 

But said hit is probably also a crit, so...

(1d20+40)[*53*] Crit Confirmation
(1d10+20)[*29*] Bonus damage
(10d6)[*31*] * 1.5 Vampiric touch crit bonus damage.

Well, assuming that hits and crits, and that it has no damage reduction... that would be 173 damage from the one crit.

----------


## Archmage1

How much damage did the vampiric touch end up doing, in total?(The max damage is current HP+10, and it would trigger after Eilyra's other damage is done.)

----------


## kinem

I checked my notes and actually the big fiend is unconscious but not dead yet when it starts falling, so VT did its full damage.

----------


## Archmage1

So... how far up are we?  1000 feet?
Has it shown any signs of fast healing?  Because dying in a fall is a bit of an ignoble way to go...

----------


## Cavir

> Has it shown any signs of fast healing?  Because dying in a fall is a bit of an ignoble way to go...


It doesn't deserve any honor. The spiders will feast well.

----------


## kinem

It has not shown any signs of fast healing.

It will hit the ground roughly 1 round after being rendered unconscious. (Real world physics would suggest a minimum of about 8 seconds from that height.)

----------


## Archmage1

Splat goes the bug, I suppose.   :Small Big Grin: 

Of course, we will probably want to retrieve the remains, for the loot.  And maybe disintegrate them, to make resurrection more challenging.

There is the mini-Loth as well, which, well... we can probably kill fairly quickly?

----------


## Archmage1

I'm probably not going to be terribly available tomorrow, as I'm going to be traveling.

Hopefully, Toliudar will get the chance to post.   :Small Smile:

----------


## tonberryking

Is the mini bug also got The after image effect going on? I can just splat them while you guys go loot the corpse.

----------


## kinem

AM, have a good trip.

The smaller (but still Large) Nycaloth has 8 mirror images.

----------


## Archmage1

Back now!  And I'm starting to think that it may be time to either skip or puppet Ash:  It has been over a week, and Toliudar doesn't seem to have replied to any other threads either.

----------


## kinem

The combat is winding down anyway. Go ahead and puppet!

----------


## Archmage1

Apart from the axe and the body, is there any other potential loot dropping?

----------


## kinem

It has other magical auras indicating items.

In Pathfinder, an unconscious creature is considered willing for spells. Is there any rule to that effect in 3.5? I dont see one, and if not, the Levitate doesnt work.

----------


## Archmage1

PHB, page 175:  "Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing"

Admittedly, Eilyra is highly tempted to just off the loth, but a prisoner could be useful.  Have there been any signs of fast healing?

----------


## kinem

Thanks. You have not seen any signs of fast healing.

----------


## Archmage1

We're ~1000 feet from the building now, right?
(Asking, as my intent is to dimension door back to Avakuss)

----------


## kinem

Id say its about 3000 away.

Of note: a swarm seems have formed at the roof of the tower.

----------


## Archmage1

It isn't like we put a hole in said roof or anything, is it?   :Small Big Grin: 
But it looks like we have some travel to do first, since 3000 feet is out of the range of dimension door.(1320 feet is her max range)

----------


## Archmage1

On another note, did we gain any XP from this encounter, or the previous one?

----------


## tonberryking

Sorry for my silence, guys, I wrenched the hell out of my back at the start of the week while waiting for other responses but luckily it was just a muscle sprain as it's abating...

----------


## Archmage1

Oof.  That's no fun at all.  I hope you make a speedy recovery!

----------


## kinem

Feel better soon, TBK, I hope!

----------


## tonberryking

I'm actually surprised at how fast I've gotten better, but timely that the swimming center's gonna be closed for awhile since I dunno if I can resume exercising immediately...

Also, where is the "Inside" Eilyra is teleporting us to?

----------


## Archmage1

Back into the room where we first encountered Rush.  For whatever reason, the spiders seem to be unwilling to enter the building, and it is a reasonably "private" spot.  Also, we need to collect Avakuss.  And double check that there are no other rooms, and examine the portal a bit more.

----------


## Archmage1

For reference, Eilyra's plan is to fly into dimension door range, then d-door Ash, Rush, the Corpse/Prisoner, and herself back into the now looted room.(NOT the dimensional anchor room.)

----------


## kinem

Combat XP are as follows:

Gate Room: Ash 2520, Avakuss 2520, Eilyra 3200

Flying Nycaloth: Rush 1000; Others: None (you don't get XP for chasing down an enemy you already defeated, nor for monsters summoned by other monsters)

The Nycaloth is wearing +5 huge breastplate armor and a +5 huge Vest of Resistance.

----------


## Archmage1

That means that Eilyra levels up, and is now ECL 21(For future reference), which means that everyone has the same ECL(I believe.).

Which also means that I need to actually make a decision.  kinem, would you have any input here?  As I see it, the realistic options are:

Incantatrix(Persist cheese in 2 more levels, persist in this level)  (Most powerful option)
Wrym Wizard(Miracle in 1 more level)(Only 2 levels total.)(Also, not really very fluff friendly.)
Dragonslayer(1 level dip for martial weapons/armor, and some other random stuff) (Really sets her up to do a dark chaos shuffle, and gain 2 feats)

Or try asking for some homebrew epic PRC that is actually decent.

----------


## kinem

AM: I can't give much advice, except to say that Eilyra is already one of the most powerful PCs due to Swiftblade, so you should probably go easy on the power level and perhaps look into options for providing support to other characters.

----------


## Archmage1

Incantatrix is probably the best option for support, since being able to persist other people's spells is quite potent.
The issue with support is that, well... wizards aren't great at that.   :Small Smile:   Haste is basically the top tier buff they have.  BFC is an option(And something Eilyra is equipped to do), but it doesn't work against things with swift action teleport.

Jade phoenix mage might be all right(Rather than adding spells, it would add maneuvers), but the need for a non-evil alignment prevents that.

I'll continue looking, and see if something sparks.

----------


## Archmage1

All right.

Presuming that I can't ignore the alignment requirement for Jade Phoenix Mage(Fluffwise, she's only evil due to her half-fiend nature.  Absent that, she would be neutral), I think Wrym Wizard is probably the best choice.  Dragonslayer really just gives martial weapon proficiency, which lets Eilyra qualify for some other PrC's, and Incantatrix is just going to make an already powerful character more powerful.  If she had more metamagic, then maybe Loremaster might have worked, but she's 2 metamagic feats short(And, sadly, practiced spellcaster, combat casting, knowledge devotion, and arcane strike are not metamagic)

Edit:  Are Epic Destinies(https://web.archive.org/web/20100916.../drfe/20080428) on the table?(Specifically, blade of Ragnarok)

----------


## tonberryking

Wait, does that mean I leveled up, or do I need one more point of XP to go over the threshhold?

----------


## Archmage1

I think Rush is ECL 21(You didn't do any LA buyoff), so assuming experience is equalized, she would level at the same time as Ash and Avakuss.

Eilyra used LA buyoff, so she started at level 20, rather than 21.
Rush, in comparison, has 15 levels in soul knife, 4 humanoid RHD and 2 LA.  
Admittedly, had she brought those 2 LA off, and also been equalized, she would be leveling as well, so that may be up to kinem.

As a side note, she should have a feat for level 18, as RHD does still grant feats.

----------


## tonberryking

..Huh...

I wonder if I should take Cleave finally.

----------


## Archmage1

Cleave is melee only, so if Rush is planning on shooting, it may not be the best choice.(And, honestly, cleave is kinda mediocre, really.  Great if we fight a lot of weak enemies, but that hasn't been the trend thus far.)

Martial study is potentially pretty nice(Any strike up to 5th level).
If you can do some retraining, mage slayer might be an interesting option.

Or Blind-Fight, considering, well...

----------


## tonberryking

..Wait, what's Martial Study? I'm trying not to confuse myself since the 3.5 Soul Knife is so bad, I'm using the _pathfinder_ version and a handful of feats tangential to the class.

----------


## Archmage1

Martial study  gives access to a single maneuver, as though you were a martial maneuver class of half your level.  So at level 18, you would pick one as though you were level 9, which means up to 5th level(Although, in practice, this may be lower, due to pre-requisites).  Some of them are quite nice, but most of the really good ones(Iron heart surge and White raven tactics stand out here) do require another maneuver as a prereq.)

----------


## Archmage1

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...58&postcount=3 has what seems like a decent list of available options.
Maneuvers are at your best when you would be moving, and attacking.  They're generally(But not always) weaker than full attacking.

----------


## kinem

> Some of them are quite nice, but most of the really good ones(Iron heart surge and White raven tactics stand out here) do require another maneuver as a prereq.)


Also of note: As per the original recruiting thread, both of those maneuvers are banned in this game due to being broken.

----------


## tonberryking

What about Mountain hammer?

----------


## kinem

Mountain Hammer is fine.

----------


## Archmage1

All right then.

Would Eilyra be able to ignore the alignment restriction on Jade Phoenix mage?

Assuming yes, a level of Warblade it shall be.
Assuming no, a level of Wyrm wizard.

As for feats, well... improved spell capacity is probably the choice.  Get a few(net 2) more spell slots for high level stuff.

----------


## tonberryking

You know, all things considered I may just take a level in sword sage and adaptive style with the fea

Oh wait, I cant do that since the feat is retroactive I think?

Although is Sword sage even the best pick for Rush? All I know is she has the wisdom for it

If this ideas a bust Im just going to take blind fight and another soul knife level.

----------


## Archmage1

You might want to clear things with kinem first.   :Small Smile:  (Specifically, on the do you level up front.)

Swordsage is not a bad choice.  Probably the biggest downside is losing your shield(Assuming your armor is light, and that you want wisdom to AC).

All three classes are solid, in different ways.  Swordsage is sort of like an upgraded monk, Warblade an upgraded barbarian/fighter, and Crusader an upgraded fighter/paladin.

----------


## kinem

I don't think anyone has accurately tracked XP for the other PCs.

What I've decided to do at this point is basically to switch to milestone leveling. This is an appropriate time, as the party has now faced 3 of the 5 originally planned set pieces (ancient library, Gate 1, Gate 2).

That means Ash, Avakuss, and Rush will all go one level up.

For Eilyra, due to Swiftblade she is quite powerful. While she does get to level up now, I'm going to add back a point of LA. So everyone is now considered ECL 22 and starts with a clean slate.

Sorry for that AM, but on the plus side, I will allow Jade Phoenix Mage. Bear in mind though that unless the game goes past the original plan - and there are certainly enough loose ends for it to do so if we all want to keep it going - there probably won't be any more level-ups.

----------


## Archmage1

Ok.  Still, worth a shot, and if Eilyra is too powerful, shifting to Warblade should improve that, to an extent.  I think.  The other options are definitely more powerful.

----------


## Archmage1

If you would like, I could rework Eilyra, and remove the swiftblade levels.

----------


## kinem

Although it might have been a mistake to allow Swiftblade, I do not want to make a change like that mid-game.

The main balancing factors for Swiftblade were supposed to be  that you lose a few caster levels (which is not very relevant in an Epic game since spell levels stop at 9th level spells) and that it was designed with 3.0s version of Haste in mind, which was changed for a reason.

----------


## tonberryking

Wait.

You implied we wouldnt level up again because the game is what, nearly over? Did I join in literally right before it ends?

----------


## kinem

Its been going for over a year and even if it doesnt go past the original plan - and it seems likely that it will go past that if we want to keep playing - Im sure it would take at least another 6 months of regular posting. So, I wouldnt worry about that.

----------


## Archmage1

This was my first time playing a swiftblade as well.  I wasn't expecting it to be as powerful as it is.  50% miss chance is fairly easy(Displacement), and I was thinking that the 2 actions would be balanced out by most of her actions being kind of bad, in comparison to to either a dedicated caster or a dedicated fighter.  Avakuss, for example, does way more damage than Eilyra, and Ash is the better caster(Her only weakness:  No dimensional anchor)

----------


## kinem

Plus Haste being a free action rather than a swift, Displacement doesnt give the miss chance against targeted spells while Swiftblade does, Freedom of Movement is a bit broken, and the whole package is Ex and cant be dispelled. Its powerful.

----------


## Archmage1

True.  Haste as a free is great, as is the non-dispel.  On the other hand, FoM is 40k, which isn't much at our level.  The spell miss chance is quite nice.

Really, it is a class that has meaningful features that also advances spellcasting.  I knew it was good, but I figured that the jack of all trades effect would work.  
On the other hand, it could be worse:  Eilyra could be strength based, and thus able to use power attack...

----------


## tonberryking

@kinem

Ahh.  My apologies; about 18 months or so back, someone recruited me to a campaign and I played for all of three sessions before --whoops!-- turns out they literally just needed extra fire power for the final confrontation. My character was railroaded into going underground to escape getting arrested by the cops and the next campaign dealt with their jail break...

...Only I wasn't invited back because they suddenly had too many characters who wanted in or some crap; something about the DM's wife getting to pick who remained in, IDFK but I was totally used. Point is I am a little touchy.

----------


## Archmage1

Cavir, Toliudar, any input?

----------


## Cavir

Sorry, had an intense class all last week. Working on catchup.




> What I've decided to do at this point is basically to switch to milestone leveling.


Cool, much easier :)



> all go one level up


Wasn't expecting that... into the rabbit holes of feats and powers I go.



> Martial study gives access to a single maneuver, as though you were a martial maneuver class of half your level.


Caveat is only getting to use it once per encounter without a way to refresh it. The save maneuvers are a good fallback IF you have a high concentration roll. Otherwise just know it's 1/encounter which can still be really good. I agree Cleave is probably limited in usage.



> Point is I am a little touchy.


Definitely no intent of that going on here. What's that chanting in the background?  One of us... One of us..... Guess you are stuck with us now :)

I'll take PsyWar20. +1 Power and +1 Feat. It's at PsyWar20 but we're already Epic so that be an epic feat right? Getting to pick a Psion 9 power (via a feat) could be too drastic.

----------


## kinem

Cavir: Epic feats are available, but you are still limited to powers of your normal maximum level, which is 6 for PsyWar.

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note... Programmed Amnesia for interrogation?  Seeing as, well... she would have full read-write access to the brain, and as it is currently willing...

----------


## Cavir

> Cavir: Epic feats are available, but you are still limited to powers of your normal maximum level, which is 6 for PsyWar.


Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder.

----------


## kinem

> On a side note... Programmed Amnesia for interrogation?  Seeing as, well... she would have full read-write access to the brain, and as it is currently willing...


If Ash has the material component, I dont see it.

----------


## Archmage1

That is the question.  We can probably get one with a bit of spellcasting...

----------


## kinem

What exactly do you have in mind?

----------


## Archmage1

Well, I was loosely planning to wait for Avakuss or Ash to chime in, but 2 plane shifts, and 2 teleports should be sufficient to return to Sigil, acquire a focus, and return in a fairly timely fashion.

Or one greater planeshift(To a portal to sigil) followed by walking through, doing shopping, taking another portal, then Eilyra casts planeshift and greater teleport to return to the party.

----------


## kinem

BTW, one thing I missed: You cant DD the loth while Dimensional Anchor is in place. If you time it just right, DA would expire just before Levitate does, but then you would have been hanging out in the sky for about 20 minutes.

----------


## Archmage1

I probably should have realized that. But outwaiting the da probably isn't going to work, as it is extended by abjurant champion. Eilyra could dispel the anchor and levitate right before the d-door, or we could do a fast dive through the hole in the roof.

----------


## kinem

Dispel is the better option. Dive would probably kill the prisoner.

----------


## Archmage1

Marking off a dispel now.   :Small Smile: 

I also sent a PM to Toliudar, in hopes of getting some response.  No luck this far, but hopefully, they are ok.

----------


## tonberryking

Posting again tonight. Damn car had to be dropped off at the repair shop suddenly

----------


## Archmage1

Been there, done that.  Definitely not fun.  Hopefully, the repairs aren't too expensive.

----------


## Archmage1

Is everyone leveled up?

----------


## kinem

Toliudar hasn't been on the site since 2 weeks ago, which is uncharacteristic to say the least. I hope it's not due to any serious problem. For now, we'll puppet Ash.

----------


## kinem

So ... had to do some research on this. An unconscious creature is considered "willing" as far as targeting a spell is concerned, but that's not the same as voluntarily choosing to give up a saving throw.

Exhibit A? Death Knell.

----------


## Archmage1

That is probably fair.  That said, as the plan was predicated upon that, do you object to Eilyra making a modification?  Specifically, casting Assay SR, then casting Unluck in hopes that it will roll badly enough to fail(As Ash nears the end of her cast), or else casting Alter Fortune to force a re-roll after the fact?

Hopefully, removing the vest of resistance at least improved our chances a bit.

----------


## kinem

I'll allow the Unluck casting. It's kind of hard for anyone else but Ash to know if a re-roll is needed at the time.

Nycaloth Will save vs Unluck DC 26 (1d20+20)[*38*]
if needed (above failed): disadvantage roll vs Programmed Amnesia DC 32 (1d20+20)[*27*]

----------


## Archmage1

Is Ash willing to use Alter Fortune?

----------


## kinem

Oh, its her spell. Lets assume so.

AF reroll (1d20+20)[*33*] vs DC 32

----------


## Archmage1

Well, that is a downer.  I suppose it is time to come up with a new plan.

----------


## Archmage1

Well, on the bright side, it isn't like it is too likely that Ash/Eilyra are going to need to cast spells in our next fight, right?   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Cavir

I've had a stressful/extra busy 2+ weeks but most of that is over now. Sorry for the delay.

----------


## Archmage1

Derp, wrong thread.   :Small Big Grin:

----------


## kinem

Let's see how a few more DC 32 Dominate attempts would go:

(1d20+20)[*28*], (1d20+20)[*27*], (1d20+20)[*30*]

OOC: OK, Ash casts it. She'll then cast Lesser Vigor to get it awake. What do you do?

Edit: I forgot, LV doesnt work at negative hp. Stupid rule. Anyone have light healing?

----------


## Archmage1

Ask questions?  What was it doing there, has anyone else passed through the portal, what happened to the high ranking fiends who were traveling there, does it know anything about a sword, does it know where any hidden secrets might be found in the tower, what is it's name, does it serve a cult, if so, what cult, does it know where the other loths went, how long has it been there...

----------


## Cavir

> Edit: I forgot, LV doesnt work at negative hp. Stupid rule. Anyone have light healing?


I have a belt of healing I can use.

----------


## Archmage1

Eilyra doesn't have any non-selfish healing.  The other option(Beyond the aforementioned belt) would be a spell from Ash(Such as Cure Critical Wounds.)

----------


## Archmage1

They are quite resistant to answers for a dominated being.   :Small Smile: 

Has Eilyra ever heard of Poxid, Rardaw, Pojoor, or Klaynth?
(1d20+37)[*39*] Know:  Planes(Or arcana, or local, or religion) Poxid
(1d20+37)[*38*] Know:  Planes(Or arcana, or local, or religion) Rardaw
(1d20+37)[*49*] Know:  Planes(Or arcana, or local, or religion) Pojoor
(1d20+37)[*39*] Know:  Planes(Or arcana, or local, or religion) Klaynth

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

Of those fiends, only Pojoor rings a bell. Pojoor the Cruel is one of the only Baernoloths whose name is known to scholars, as most are quite reclusive. In years past he commanded a small army of Yugoloths in Gehenna, but was defeated by a force of Tanar'ri.

----------


## Archmage1

Does Eilyra have any ideas about a Colubriloth who worked for Thrazidun and had a fort in the past?

(1d20+14)[*17*] History
(1d20+37)[*57*] Planes
(1d20+37)[*46*] Religion
(1d20+37)[*56*] Local

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

The histories show no sign of it in past eras. This Coloubriloth is either a new factor or has been well hidden.

----------


## Archmage1

Is the loth ignoring Rush and Avakuss?  Or was his answer his response to them as well?

----------


## kinem

It was his response to them as well.

----------


## Archmage1

Do Rush, Ash, or Avakuss have any further questions?

----------


## Cavir

No, no more questions from Avakuss.

----------


## kinem

I'm not trying to rush anyone, but what's next?

As for Center, I see no reason that Ash shouldn't use one of those Miracle spells as soon as the Nycaloth is dealt with, but until he is, it's a player decision as to whether to advertise to the 'loth the ability to do so.

----------


## Archmage1

I was waiting for confirmation from Rush, but Eilyra was going to kill the nycaloth, before suggesting that we return to sigil, do some selling, get some diamonds, use miracle for revive outsider.  Then, our trip to see if we can locate the potential fortress.

----------


## kinem

I assume you will now want to proceed with the above plan. How will you try to find the fortress?

Also, at this point it looks like Toluidar may not return. What should we do with Ash? Send her on a side quest to retrieve Taric?

----------


## Archmage1

Absent any other ideas, that's acting on the information we have.  Sadly, while potentially useful, the Nycaloth interrogation didn't reveal anything directly actionable.  We could attempt to use gate to summon things, although XP costs and needing to acquire/prepare the spell would impose delays.

It does look rather like we are losing Toluidar, and I hope they're ok.  Ash going off to rescue Taric does seem reasonable, but maybe she can cast miracle to revive Center first?  Looking at her sheet, she does appear to have converted her spare 19k gold to diamonds.

It also raises another question:  Do we seek out another player?

----------


## Cavir

I'm perfectly fine with Archmage1 running Ash. I've done the same kind of thing but doing Ash (or Eilyra) would be too much for me. I don't have the planar expertise that Archmage1 and Toluidar have. I'm fine with finding another player/character but in the mean time we probably need the firepower Ash gives. 

Yup, healing Center should be a priority. We also need healing. Avakuss at least took a beating. I show Avakuss to be at 156/297hp. Do we want to try / can we destroy the gate?

Maybe RoT will have new info too.

----------


## Archmage1

While I would love to destroy the gate, I'm not sure we can.  Eilyra did examine it, and found nothing at all that would enable her to interact with it in a meaningful way.

Healing is probably something that can be done.  Checking Ash's spell list, she does have another heal available.

I could run Ash, and if this were a short term thing, I'd be fine with that, but on a longer term?  Not being able to control the sheet will be awkward(Yes, I could create another sheet), but one of the semi-defining things of this adventure has been low grade conflict between Ash and Eilyra, with Avakuss and Taric moderating.  That would promptly vanish(I don't think I could do it justice, and it would feel quite false).  I have ran two characters in another campaign, and while it worked out, I'm not exactly looking forwards to running two of the more complicated characters anyone could build in this game.  And Eilyra is quite simple to play in comparison to Ash.

----------


## kinem

Heal for Avakuss and Miracle for Center coming up from Ash.

Will you leave the Nycaloth body as is?

After healing, I think the group would head back to Sigil. Eilyra has the notes and books she took from the other room to read, and Rush has been gone from her keep for who knows how long, and wants to show the others the wizard's notes and the portal she went through that made her end up here. Then there is the trip to Bavia ...

For Ash, continue to puppet her short term, but definitely we need to get her out of the picture unless Toluidar returns, and probably recruit a replacement.

----------


## Archmage1

Short term is definitely stow or destroy corpse, return to Sigil.

Stall until tomorrow(Doing things like reading books, checking on keeps, checking on former prisoners, seeing if RoT has any additional information)

Then, Bavia, unless we find something else key.

----------


## Cavir

I like those ideas. The spiders could deal with the corpse (the one we don't want...). Avakuss could Dimension Door with the corpse out into the field then DD right back, alone.

----------


## Archmage1

We probably want to take it with us, to make resurrection harder, and to allow speak with dead, if we want. Or disintegrate it.
I might overuse disintegrate a bit.

----------


## kinem

How would you take the corpse?

I dont think anyone has Gentle Repose prepared

----------


## Cavir

Stuff it in the bag. Speak with Dead same day. Dispose. Not looking to keep it as a souvenir.

----------


## Archmage1

Ash has a portable hole.

----------


## Archmage1

See, you say that we have funds, but currently...
We have...

A cabinet of Feasting(Which, honestly, we might want to keep).

A breastplate +5(Which might be better off on Center)
A vest of resistance +5(Also center).

And a huge greataxe +5.

Assuming we sell the greataxe, that's 25k.  Also, assuming we forget debts to Ash, that puts the payout at 13k(After reducing the pool by current debts owed), which, after being split five ways(Avakuss, Rush, Center, Eilyra, Rule), gets us ~2600 gold each.

Now, if we sell the cabinet, the breastplate, and the vest, that does give us a larger pool(~22k more each).  This would allow for more purchasing, but we are well behind as far as the sacred WBL goes.

Edit:  Yes, the reference to the sacred, all holy, all consuming WBL is indeed sarcasm.

----------


## kinem

There's also the Rod of Force. Normally a Rod of Force is priced at 60k gp (MIC), but this one is an ancient prototype and worth double to the right collector.

The breastplate and vest are too large for Center (huge vs large). In any case, as a Rilmani he already has his own armor (a semitranslucent suit of golden +4 full plate that appears on his body just in time to help defend against an attack and then vanishes immediately after) and will not wear other armor.

An Enveloping Pit would be useful to the party in general and perhaps it would be appropriate to split the cost.

----------


## Archmage1

The vest might resize?  At least, most non armor and weapon stuff usually does.

As for the rod, well...  See, we don't have it anymore. 
Taric was holding it, unless I am very confused(Which is quite possible.).

----------


## kinem

The vest would probably resize, at that.

I think we can assume the Rod was stored in Ash's Pit.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent!  That should give us enough gold to do a little bit of shopping.   :Small Smile: 

Especially if we can figure out the bit about the collector IC.

----------


## Cavir

The Pit is only 3600. Avakuss has 18k (plus 5.5k debt owed) before this round of loot. Take the 3600 that was going to Avakuss for debt and use it for the Pit. He can't use the item of course.

The rod would be nice to keep for the Wall of Force effect but I guess there are more pressing goals, such as flight for Avakuss. Adding the Phoenix Cloak to the current cloak will cost 62k. Losing our Miracle worker makes that tougher.

I agree with keeping the cabinet and the vest for Center. If I don't have enough for the cloak upgrade maybe I'll get a potion or two of Fly to hold me over.

If you want to make resurrection harder, petrify it then throw it into the astral plane from the temple area.

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, while I have asked before, Wish can't really replace miracle in that fashion.  5k XP is just a no.  Although...

Would it be considered too cheesy to use planar binding(Maybe greater) to summon something with a wish SLA for the express purpose of merging items?

----------


## kinem

Probably. Maybe there should just be a 'merge items' spell.

TBK, it's been a while since you posted. Any problems? I've been quite busy this week myself.

I know we kind of got bogged down with the interrogation of the nycaloth; hopefully we can get this moving a bit.

If TBK returns, we can think about recruiting a fourth player.

----------


## Archmage1

Or perhaps a service?  If magical enchanters can quickly merge items for a reasonable fee?

----------


## kinem

How about half the cost of the cheaper item, to be consistent with the normal pricing rule?

----------


## Archmage1

That seems reasonable to me?   :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

So, selling both the huge breastplate and the huge greataxe(Since noone can use them), The greataxe is worth 50380(Assuming the cost doubles for each size increase after large), the breastplate is 25950.

Selling both gets us 38165.  We take the Enveloping pit out, 34565 gold remaining.

Center is owed 6k, Ash and Avakuss are owed 5.5k(But Ash is leaving so maybe not?)
Eilyra is owed 500.

Assuming we split with Rush, and do need to share with Ash, that's 17565 gold remaining, split between Center, Rush, Eilyra, Avakuss, Ash, and Rule.
Eilyra gets 3427.5(Including her debt for the focus)
Center gets 8927.5(Including his debt)
Avakuss and Ash would get 8427.5 gold(Including his debt)
Rule and Rush would get 2927.5 gold

Edit:  About what time is it, IC, as compared to the departure date for the portal to Bavia?

----------


## Cavir

Thanks for tracking all that AM1. I had 18497.3, plus 8427.5 -> 26,924.8 jink.
Still need to do my level up to 22, oops.

----------


## Archmage1

Level ups are fun.   :Small Smile: 
Swordsage could be ok, especially if you(And maybe Eilyra) can ignore the starting stance of level 1.  +2d6 SA, and some other random stuff is not bad.  It would, however cost you 12 PP, a power, and never being able to advance in monk ever again.
Cleric could work as well, although it would take another... 16 levels before you could get Miracle.
Crusader could also work.  Note that you can take the martial maneuvers as a level 11 initiator, not a level 1, which opens up some interestingness.
Barbarian(Spirit Lion Totem) to get Pounce(Which, needless to say, is incredible, especially with your shock trooper.)

I'll admit, I'm still tempted to ask to shift Eilyra back to Half Fiend(Which was to be 3 LA, based on the LA assignment thread), but then I actually looked at what that would do, (an effective +2 int, a bunch of resistances, some SR), and noted that no, that would be a significantly more powerful as compared to the fey-ri).  I also keep thinking "Maybe I should do Crusader, rather than warblade.  Devoted spirit stuff is really nice."  And also, no.  Much more annoying in practice, plus it really doesn't fit her.

----------


## Archmage1

And while I am procrastinating things a little bit... maybe we can help Rush out a bit?  She is a Centaur, which is normally 4 RHD+2 LA.  The LA assignment thread figured it was more a +1(When taking the 4 RHD into account)  Add in LA buyoff, and she could potentially reach Soulknife 18/RHD 4, which would give her...
+1 BAB, 21st level feat, +1 stat, the usual +1 epic BAB and saves, and 2 blade skills plus reaching +8 on the mindblade.
Add in a greater magic weapon from Eilyra, that would get her attack set up to +36/31/26/21, which would help with her damage(Said damage would also be somewhat boosted, which is a good thing, I think.  As it is, she could use with a little help on that front in comparison to Avakuss(She's already ahead of Eilyra, barring crits and the bloodstone vampiric touch))

Also, add in the saves from the RHD(+1 fort, and +4 reflex and wisdom.)   :Small Big Grin:  At 22, that should put her at 6/14/14+1 epic to all, as compared to her current 5/9/9

----------


## Cavir

Gonna go with Psychic Warrior 20 to get another power and feat. Let me know if any of my thoughts are off since this is my only epic level char.

PsyWar 20
- Bonus Feat (Expanded Knowledge, Plane Shift, Psionic) No tuning forks needed! Can't get greater version.
- +1 Power (Inconstant Location.... yum yum)
- +17PP (+12 level, +5 ability score)
- Don't get +1 BAB or +1 FORT from class
- +5 skill pts (including +1 from feat)
- +14hp

EPIC Char level 22
- +1 Saves

----------


## Archmage1

This is where epic feats get a touch screwy:  Class based bonus feats are not epic.  The only ways to get epic feats are the epic general feat option(21, 24, 27...), and if the class explicitly says epic(Which tends to be the epic continuation of classes, or explicitly epic classes.)  A bonus feat is not an epic feat, unless otherwise stated.

"At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class"

----------


## Cavir

> This is where epic feats get a touch screwy: Class based bonus feats are not epic.


OK I hadn't caught that. Darn. I'll stick with PsyWar 20 and work on choosing another feat. The game may complete before we get to level up again but if that works out I'll take PsyWar 21 for another epic feat.




> How about half the cost of the cheaper item, to be consistent with the normal pricing rule?


At 26k jink. Going to keep saving to add Phoenix Cloak to my cloak. It's currently Cloak of Displacement + Resistance +5, +6 CHA (24+25+36). The "half the cost should just be for the Displacement so adding Phoenix will be 50 + 12 = 62. Getting flight would be nice but at least with Inconstant Location I'll be bounding around like Night Crawler and still getting full attacks.

Plane Shift, Psionic is Psion/wilder 5, so I don't need an Epic feat for it. I'll get us to the plane we want. Someone else will have to teleport us the rest of the way.

New char sheet for level 22 here.

----------


## kinem

I PM'd TBK.

Ash will definitely want her share.

AM, since you are keeping track, how much wealth does a party member now have? I will recruit 1 more player, or 2 if TBK doesn't return, and I'll give them wealth in line with the current PCs.

Before I open recruitment, let me know if anyone has suggestions on appropriate players you may know of. The main thing I'm looking for is commitment to keep posting long term and on a regular basis. Open recruitment often attracts the wrong kind of player (for this game), the kind who would rather build characters than play them, and who vanish (and apply to other games) when the first weeklong slow patch hits which in PBP is usually fairly soon. Lots of people talk the talk but don't walk the walk, so it's not like I can just _ask_ people if they will be committed.




> maybe we can help Rush out a bit? She is a Centaur, which is normally 4 RHD+2 LA. The LA assignment thread figured it was more a +1(When taking the 4 RHD into account)


I will allow the suggested change. Rush could use the boost compared to the other PCs.

----------


## Archmage1

I believe we should each be sitting on ~1072000 gold in total.  Ish.(We have had 2 sales:  One of ~18k each one of ~3k each.)(For a more precise count, going through, and adding up the price of items on a sheet should help, but I don't have the time to do that at present.)

We also have(Or had)
A mirror of life trapping(Ash has).(200k)
A rod of Force(Old, may be worth 120k)
A cabinet of feasting(288000)

Assuming a similar split in wealth, selling all of those would result in each of us gaining an additional ~50k more, which would put us at 1122000 wealth each.

WBL is 1200000 for a level 22 character.

----------


## tonberryking

Guys I'm sorry.  I had a few rough weeks, some very bad days and was "Oh, I'll post tomorrow once I get my $#*! together!"  and that snowballed...

Gonna try to catch up tonight and tomorrow even after my normal block of weekday shifts...

----------


## Archmage1

No worries!  We understand.  We've all had those sorts of months in the past.  They're not a great deal of fun.  I hope things have improved for you.

----------


## tonberryking

Not entirely, no, but I'm trying to stay abreast of the games I'm in.

Also, forgive me if I am mistaken, but could Rush keep the food cabinet and have that come out of her share?  She only has a sustaining spoon and otherwise needs to eat.

(Seriously though, any advice on what to do with the money she's got would be appreciated...it's been awhile and I'm not sure what I could do with it other than _possibly_ improve her armor)

----------


## Archmage1

I think we are intending the cabinet to stay the party's property for the moment, as, well, we all benefit from free heroes feasts.   :Small Smile: 

We can probably also offer advice as far as money spending goes.  How much do you have available?

Plus, well... I think you have a total of 3 levels you can take.  And you should add +1 fort, and +4 reflex and will to your base saves, from your 4 rhd.

----------


## tonberryking

I THOUGHT I spent all the starting gold I had, but, including the most recent rewards I have like 440,000 in gp left over.

You're saying I add three more levels to Rush's sheet?  Well that nearly finishes up Soul Knife if I just dump all of them there, but I don't think I actually had planned ahead for PrCs or ...what the heck would I even dip into?

Illumine Soul is like the only decent prestige class for a Soul Knife, and would free up the Ghost Touch enchantment on my mind blade, but I'm not sure if there's any decent caster class for her since her highest mental stat is wisdom...

----------


## Archmage1

440k is a significant chunk of change.   :Small Smile: 

Did you buy/use any of the books that give an inherent bonus to stats?
Looking at your items, you have...
Flight(Always good).
Freedom of movement(Also good.)
Protection, Resistance, NA, relevant stats.
Death protection

You don't have
Evasion(25k gold, ring, so add 50% to combine)
Mind protection(There is an armor crystal, and various things at 120k+ to give mind blank, or rely on Center, who can cast it)
Inherent bonuses(Books, give between +1 to +5 to stats)(Such as http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...fUnderstanding)
Stun negation/protection:  Third Eye Clarity(3k, also does a lot of other things.), or Banner of the Storm's eye(15k)
True sight(Scout's Headband is the cheapo item here, at 3400, but you can go a lot more expensive.)
Miss chance(Minor Cloak of Displacement is probably the most reliable here, at 24k.  The Major cloak of displacement costs more, and is actually less useful.)
Extradimensional storage space(Although you do have a high enough strength, a BoH can be useful in other ways)

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ry-Magic-Items can be fairly helpful as far as identifying items, although it can be a little boring as well.

----------


## Cavir

Mirror of Life Trapping - Selling it now is questionable due to its current residents. Wouldn't want a new owner releasing them.
Rod of Force - I'm a little concerned about it being critically useful at some point but otherwise ok with selling it.
Cabinet of Feasting - Agreed with keeping it.




> >maybe we can help Rush out a bit? She is a Centaur, which is normally 4 RHD+2 LA. The LA assignment thread figured it was more a +1(When taking the 4 RHD into account)
> >I will allow the suggested change. Rush could use the boost compared to the other PCs.


If you want to change up Soulknife, there's this homebrew. I'm using it for an application in another game, DM'd by that same author.

----------


## kinem

I hope everyone here is safe from the storm.

tonberryking, good to see that you're back. I hope you will have better days ahead.

Cavir, thanks for the PM. I'll look into it.




> If you want to change up Soulknife, there's this homebrew.


Let's not get into homebrew "class fixes". They were not allowed in the original recruitment thread, and I'm not going to change that. Edit: It does say 'homebrew on request'. Still, no.

Archmage: Thanks for tallying the jink. Ash will leave the Mirror with you as she doesn't want to bring it to the Upper Planes when searching for Taric.

I think for the new PC I will assign level 22, but 1,070,000 gp. The likely use of party-wide items like the Mirror and the Cabinet would supplement that of course.

BTW, there is also the Iron Flask, IIRC.

----------


## RCgothic

Hi all, kinem invited me to make up numbers, looking forward to playing with you all!

Character will take me a few days to put something together. I'm told you need healing, so I'm planning something around a core of spontaneous cleric. The "cleric and what" bit is still slightly up in the air at the moment, hopefully something that complements the party's current abilities. :Small Smile:

----------


## Archmage1

Awesome!  I'm glad to see you're interested.

We currently have a soulknife(Ranged, primarily), a Psychic Warrior(Unarmed fighter, with psionics), and a Swiftblade(Fighter//Wizard).
We are probably the shortest on divine magic, face-like skills, and rogue-like skills.  That said, this is epic, so we can solve the lack of rogue like skills with excessive firepower, and there hasn't been a whole lot of talking this far.

 :Small Smile: 

Healing is nice, but by no means should it be the primary focus of your character.  Unless you want it to be.   :Small Smile:

----------


## RCgothic

Well I'm happy to provide some divine might.  :Small Wink: 

Is it fractional BAB/Saves?

Placeholder sheet:

Vanya

----------


## Archmage1

Alas, no fractional saves or bab, which makes things a little interesting.

----------


## RCgothic

What sort of flaws can I take? Other than the srd/UA flaws I'm thinking about Brash (DrM324), Fussy(DrM328), or perhaps Wild (DrM329)?

----------


## kinem

Welcome, RCgothic. I'll allow the DrM flaws.

----------


## RCgothic

Thanks! Flaws will be Brash and Fussy.

My draft build is:

Feat Rogue2/Spontaneous Cleric1/Human Paragon3/Radiant Servant10/Contemplative 6

19 full cleric levels brought up to CL22 with practiced Spellcaster. So sacrificing an 8th an 9th level spell slot and a 9th level spell known, basically. Gets automatic maximised&empowered healing and 4 domains.

I'd like to take the Sun, Healing, Travel, Pride, and Time Domains.

Combat style will be two handed reach ideally.

----------


## Archmage1

That looks like a fairly awesome cleric build.   :Small Smile:

----------


## RCgothic

I'd quite like to wield a reach hammer. Can I take the Lucerne Hammer from the PFSRD? And if customising is allowed, I'd give up the piercing head to get x3 on criticals.

----------


## kinem

I'll allow it, with the x3, but as an Exotic weapon.

----------


## RCgothic

I think I'm getting there on crunch. I've basically got a reach/lockdown build with a 1/encounter emergency shield block. And I can use Divine Defiance and Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic to protect the party against hostile spells.

On skills she's a passable face, has knowledge religion covered, and is both alert and mobile.

Just spells selection to go. Any requests? Unlike a normal cleric I'm limited on spells known like a sorcerer or favoured soul, with some extra domain spells.

So far I have:
*Spoiler: Level 0*
Show

 Amanuensis, Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light, Mending, Purify Food&Drink, Read Magic

9/9 known

*Spoiler: Level 1*
Show

Domain Spells:
Cure Light Wounds, Longstrider, Endure Elements, Hypnotism, True Strike

Obscuring Mist
Divine Favour
Inhibit
Sign
Resurgence
1/5 known


*Spoiler: Level 2*
Show

Domain Spells:
Cure Moderate Wounds, Locate Object, Heat Metal, Eagle's Splendour, Gentle Repose

Divine Insight
Make Whole
Hold Person
Silence
Lesser Restoration 
5/5 known


*Spoiler: Level 3*
Show

Domain Spells:
Cure Serious Wounds, Fly, Searing Light, Heroism, Haste

Mass Resist Energy
Dispel Magic
Magic Vestment
Mass Conviction
4/4 known

*Spoiler: Level 4*
Show

Domain Spells:
Cure Critical Wounds, Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Divine Power, Freedom of Movement

Planar Tolerance 
Delay Death
Greater Magic Weapon
Positive Energy Aura
4/4 known

*Spoiler: Level 5*
Show

Domain Spells:
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Teleport, Flame Strike, Mass Reduce Person, Permanency 

Righteous Wrath of The Faithful
Revivify
Greater Stone Shape
Righteous Might
4/4 known

*Spoiler: Level 6*
Show

Domain Spells:
Heal, Find The Path, Fire Seeds, Forbiddence, Contingency

Energy Immunity
Greater Dispel Magic
Superior Resistance
3/3 known

*Spoiler: Level 7*
Show

Domain Spells:
Regenerate, Greater Teleport, Sunbeam, Greater Heroism, Moment of Prescience

Mass Spell Resistance
Resurrection 
Greater Plane Shift
3/3 known

*Spoiler: Level 8*
Show

Domain Spells:
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Phase Door, Sunburst, Greater Spell Immunity, Foresight

Discern Location
Brilliant Aura
Mass Death Ward
3/3 known

*Spoiler: Level 9*
Show

Domain Spells:
Mass Heal, Astral Projection, Prismatic Sphere, Mass Charm Monster, Time Stop

Miracle
Summon Monster IX
2/2 known


Considering Delay Death and Assay Spell Resistance. Probably need a way to bring people back from the dead as well. 

On a fluff side, I'm thinking Vanya isn't a planar native. She was on her own plane with her own party battling a big bad, and the artifact of doom went bang, scattering her party across the planes so irretrievably she can't find her way back. Gives a good excuse for her high level, unexpected appearance, and lack of knowledge about what's going on.

----------


## Archmage1

Assay SR comes highly recommended if you want to cast spells on enemies.  If you don't want to cast spells on enemies, then it is not worth taking.  I don't really play clerics much, so my advice is somewhat limited.

1st level:  
Divine Favor could be nice?  Personal, but not a bad pre-buff.
2nd level:
Maybe avoid planar effects?  I dunno.
3rd level:
Mass Resist Energy.  Surprisingly handy.
4th level:
Death Ward can be handy, although I think we mostly have soulfire armor.
5th level
True Seeing is either useless, or critical.

https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1238.0 Might have some spell advice for you as well.

----------


## kinem

"mati2002" is a now-banned spam account.

RCgothic: I'm not seeing an "Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Lucerne Hammer)" feat listed on your sheet. With a PC at this level, I might be overlooking some other way you got the EWP, but if so point it out.

----------


## RCgothic

> "mati2002" is a now-banned spam account.
> 
> RCgothic: I'm not seeing an "Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Lucerne Hammer)" feat listed on your sheet. With a PC at this level, I might be overlooking some other way you got the EWP, but if so point it out.


I spent money on a skillful enchantment (+2) that provides proficiency to anyone who wields it. Impact (+1) and improved critical extended the critical range to 18-20/x3.

I think I've got my spells filled out now, barring any substitutions. Mass Death Ward may be overkill if everyone else has soulfire armour. I picked up mass Resist Energy, Planar Tolerance at 4th, and Resurrection at 7.

Onto the fluff!

----------


## tonberryking

Actually, Rush is a frontliner Soulknife build... She's GOT some range unless you were suggesting that with her insane teleportation ability that isn't even a move action anymore she IS the ranged attack.

----------


## Archmage1

I thought she had distance, and basically returning on her mind blades?

----------


## tonberryking

She has distance on her mind blade because otherwise it's range caps out at 30, not 60... Which... now that I say out loud that and knowing she has 250ft teleport-as-a-free-action range, makes it seem a little silly I took that enchantment...

----------


## Archmage1

That still puts her with a longer range than Eilyra or Avakuss.   :Small Big Grin: 

Avakuss can pretend to try using a composite longbow, for a little damage, and Eilyra has spells, and can also pretend to use a longbow, for even less damage.  But both of them pretty much need to be up close and personal to deal damage.

----------


## kinem

> I spent money on a skillful enchantment (+2) that provides proficiency to anyone who wields it. Impact (+1) and improved critical extended the critical range to 18-20/x3.


Unfortunately, the feat Improved Critical (Lucerne Hammer) has "Proficient with Lucerne Hammer" as a prerequisite, which makes sense. Having a particular Lucerne Hammer that you can wield without penalty isn't enough for you to learn how to wield Lucerne Hammers in general extra-well.

Actually, Impact and Improved Critical don't stack, anyway.

I'm looking forward to see what fluff you'll come up with  :Small Cool:

----------


## Archmage1

On a more IC note, does Rush have any additional questions or queries, or should we move on to planning our next moves?

We've got ~12 hours, of which 9 should probably be spent by Eilyra resting and re-preparing spells.  I think Avakuss and Rush are a little less lazy than the resident wizard, so you may have more time.

3 hours could be spent shopping, gathering information, throwing an epic party, reading books, visiting a fortress, confirming Joel's health, checking up on Avakuss's minions, dealing with the Skeleroth(Which, as Kinem pointed out, does have an Iron Flask, although we would need to de-petrify it to retrieve said flask.)

----------


## Cavir

Avakuss now has Inconstant Location so he can be anywhere he wants each round, with size Huge reach. Think about that with flight! Given a chance to fully self buff, it is just scary. Then again, he isn't throwing around 9ths.

Didn't we strip it before stoning it?

Avakuss does not have soulfire armour. Death Ward is a good thing.

We need to make the plan for Bavia since we'll be a different group. Avakuss can plane shift us once off Sigil. Hopefully he properly understood how to do it just from having experienced it as a passenger!

----------


## tonberryking

I was gonna post in the morning, hopefully, for any last questions she has.

But so I know... Are we gonna use her castle for stuff?

----------


## RCgothic

> Unfortunately, the feat Improved Critical (Lucerne Hammer) has "Proficient with Lucerne Hammer" as a prerequisite, which makes sense. Having a particular Lucerne Hammer that you can wield without penalty isn't enough for you to learn how to wield Lucerne Hammers in general extra-well.
> 
> Actually, Impact and Improved Critical don't stack, anyway.
> 
> I'm looking forward to see what fluff you'll come up with


That's a fair catch. I'll take Versatile Spellcaster instead, which gives me a bit of spell slot versatility and access up to 11th level spells in a pinch.

Got description and personality done, just need to polish off the background. The basic premise is she's from another similar universe and got blasted across from her own world after destroying a device a villain was using to mess with such things.

The completion of an adventure arc in her own universe explains her high level, and the universal travel explains her sudden appearance and inability to get back (it's a bit beyond the reach of even a greater plane shift or miracle), and also how she turns up in sigil where normal teleportation and plane shifting is blocked.

----------


## Archmage1

> Avakuss now has Inconstant Location so he can be anywhere he wants each round, with size Huge reach. Think about that with flight! Given a chance to fully self buff, it is just scary. Then again, he isn't throwing around 9ths.
> 
> Didn't we strip it before stoning it?
> 
> Avakuss does not have soulfire armour. Death Ward is a good thing.
> 
> We need to make the plan for Bavia since we'll be a different group. Avakuss can plane shift us once off Sigil. Hopefully he properly understood how to do it just from having experienced it as a passenger!


We, alas, did not strip the Skereloth before stoning it.  After all, we are rescuing it, and taking it to a safe location, not simply putting it on ice.  Eilyra can cast both planeshift and teleport, but we're planning on getting to Bavia in a semi-legal fashion, so we shouldn't need them until we decide to depart the popsicle stand.




> I was gonna post in the morning, hopefully, for any last questions she has.
> 
> But so I know... Are we gonna use her castle for stuff?


The castle may be useful?  We do have three hours before it becomes Eilyra's nap time beforethe next expedition(Which might or might not go somewhere useful), so suggesting that we go and check it out could be an excellent opportunity.   :Small Smile: 

Did you have a chance to consider what additional magic items you might be interested in?

----------


## kinem

RCGothic: If you want to use Quicken Spell, you should take Rapid Metamagic.

----------


## RCgothic

> RCGothic: If you want to use Quicken Spell, you should take Rapid Metamagic.


Good call, will do.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: RCgothic*
Show

Thinking about how to introduce Vanya to the IC. 

Does she worship Pelor? That would imply a connection between the universes, which is probably a good idea anyway, because the Big Bad she fought could then be tied to what the other PCs are fighting.

I take it that Sigil does not exist in the cosmology she knows. But in that case, what does? Is it a version of the Great Wheel? I could come up with something, but I wanted to see what you had in mind.

Another idea: Rather than being blasted into another universe, she's been blasted forward in time. So the people she used to know are long gone, and maybe the Big Bad was tied to the current plot somewhat directly. This idea seems good to me.

----------


## RCgothic

> *Spoiler: RCgothic*
> Show
> 
> Thinking about how to introduce Vanya to the IC. 
> 
> Does she worship Pelor? That would imply a connection between the universes, which is probably a good idea anyway, because the Big Bad she fought could then be tied to what the other PCs are fighting.
> 
> I take it that Sigil does not exist in the cosmology she knows. But in that case, what does? Is it a version of the Great Wheel? I could come up with something, but I wanted to see what you had in mind.
> 
> Another idea: Rather than being blasted into another universe, she's been blasted forward in time. So the people she used to know are long gone, and maybe the Big Bad was tied to the current plot somewhat directly. This idea seems good to me.


*Spoiler: Response*
Show

I was thinking a dynamic entry - literally turns up in a ball of energy and a smoking crater, lol.  :Small Cool: 

The rest sounds good - I was going to use a version of Pelor that was similar enough to bemusedly accept her faith and a disposable big bad we'd never see again, but your version sounds better!

So she gets sent forward in time by leaping into some sort of time device to smash the focus whilst the rest of her group provide cover. I think you'd better tell me who the big bad is and why Vanya's original group were trying to stop them. It might not include motive, but probably Vanya's group would have had some idea of the consequences of failure in order to make it worth making a sacrifice play over it.

I'm leaning towards her not having been a planar traveller or familiar with sigil before this because I as a player am not particularly familiar with the setting. It gives me an excuse to not be particularly knowledgeable. :Small Red Face:

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: RCgothic*
Show

What Vanya knows is that a group of cultists, with several powerful spellcasters both arcane and divine among them, was found to be constructing something an underground base. Preliminary investigation suggested it was some sort of doomsday device, so Vanya and her companions raided the place.

From interrogations and documents, you found that long ago, an evil god named Tharizdun had emerged out of the Abyss and grown so powerful that most of the other gods banded together to imprison him somehow before he could destroy everything. The cultists could not open the prison directly, so instead, they built some sort of time device that would bring the god forward in time from before the imprisonment, believing that they would be rewarded by their master.

The cultists rushed to activate the device before you could destroy it. In the center was a large object that looked like a glass globe that was supposed to draw the god in. Seeing that you were too late to prevent the device from being activated, you rushed in to push the globe out before it completed its task ...

----------


## RCgothic

Sounds good! I think I'm done now. :Small Cool:

----------


## Archmage1

I'll make another post, with suggestions for things for people to do tomorrow, which will hopefully lead to improvements.

Thoughts:  Eilyra does reading, Avakuss, Center, Rush do some shopping(For Rush), and take a look at Rush's castle.

----------


## tonberryking

For the life of me, I cannot recall where I got the specs for Rushs keep just that it cost 150k in the DMG.

----------


## kinem

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#cityBuildings

Keep
This fortified stone building has fifteen to twenty-five rooms.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: tonberryking*
Show

A natural 20 is only an automatic success on attack rolls and saving throws, not on skill checks.

In this case, it means that Rush would not have been able to find the secret door, until she brought the others here.

----------


## Archmage1

Well...

(1d20+25)[*32*] Spot
Or
(1d20+16)[*26*] Search?

I think maybe that spell that summons a swarm of unseen servants might be quite useful in restoring the keep.

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: RCgothic*
Show

The woman that just appeared in the IC is Vanya. She's at half hp and the last thing she remembers is rushing in to stop the doomsday device.

----------


## Archmage1

On a slight, totally unrelated note, how out of date is her speech intended to be?

----------


## RCgothic

I'm not really sure. More than a few centuries was my thought? Long enough that even long-lived acquaintances aren't around anymore at least. Possibly much longer then than that. I think it's up to kinem to put dates on it that make best sense for the plot.

I'm imagining that as well as the archaic words and grammar, her vowel sounds are also a bit weird. If any of you reply "What?" to her that would be both funny and appropriate.

She was an A-list Avengers-Tier hero by the standard of her time on the material plane. I know that's not as big a deal on Sigil, but she should be recognisable to anyone with decent historical knowledge.

----------


## Archmage1

Ah, fair enough.  I asked, as Eilyra kind of sort of got trapped for ~5k years, and was released from her imprisonment a few years ago now.  So the question to my mind was "Is this human still speaking that silly newfangled stuff, or something else?"

Of course, she did have it somewhat easy, as elven, being a "perfect" language(Yes, she is somewhat racist, although she is pretty good at concealing it) didn't really change.

----------


## RCgothic

That's actually quite a cool point they have in common, Eilyra having been through this exact sort of thing. But at the same time outsiders are more equipped to cope with enormous timespans so their perspectives on being out of time may still be different. I'm not sure it matters hugely whether Vanya is from before or after Eilyra's original era, either could work for me.

I wonder if the planar languages/draconic/elven/dwarvish/draconic would have changed less, being spoken more by long-lived/nigh-immortal beings/tradition sticklers, whereas common would have changed a lot more as a more adaptable language and something like Goblin or Orc might have changed so much as to be completely unintelligible.

----------


## Archmage1

The evolution of languages in D&D would be interesting.  Thing is, there is something compelling common to BE common, even across multiple planes with incredibly limited contact between them.  Which is sort of like the dutch explorers reaching Australia, actually making contact with the aborigines, and finding that the aborigines speak dutch, despite 0 contact between them before.

Which means that there is a grand conspiracy of some sort keeping languages consistent, which likely requires a lot of mind control.

----------


## RCgothic

Should I wait for Rush to respond before my next post, or should I just try and keep things moving?

----------


## Archmage1

That's a tricky question.  My first reaction is to suggest going ahead:  tonberryking has been online after you made your post, 
On the other hand, they also haven't posted for a few days, and are often quite busy.  Perhaps plan to post, say, tomorrow afternoon, to give them both notice, and time to act?  The choice is yours.

(For reference, I was planning on posting after you did, and to have Eilyra move out of the way, and, well, respond to whatever it is you do.)

----------


## Archmage1

If you are familiar with forgotten realms, and the DR system there, I think it is ~1380 DR.  Ish.  Probably.

----------


## RCgothic

Do I have free reign to pick when/where Vanya hails from, or does the DM have a plot preference?

----------


## kinem

RC: You have free reign

----------


## Archmage1

Is anyone planning to respond to Eilyra or Center of All, or should Eilyra propose that we continue along our way?(With the added objective of checking the keep for additional secret doors or chambers)

----------


## tonberryking

I am all for search the castle top to bottom, but I woke up inspired this morning, it would seem.

----------


## Archmage1

It does raise a question:  Has such a group of heroes from ~1400 years ago(Or so) been mentioned in any of the books Eilyra has thus far read?

----------


## kinem

*Spoiler: Eilyra*
Show

Although the ancient library - which most contained much older books - made no mention of them, Vanya and her group were mentioned in some of the other histories that you've read long ago in other places, and according to them Vanya was indeed a powerful and benevolent priestess and adventurer. The Tharizdun connection was not mentioned in the histories, just that Vanya did not return from one of her adventures.

----------


## Archmage1

So far as shopping goes, I recall that Rush was looking for a few things, but I'm not certain what her budget was?  

Eilyra does not have the gold to purchase anything she wanted to buy, as she only has 4k(And while the cheapest item she wants is 4k, it would also need to be merged.  Plus her top desire would be 8k.  Perhaps after our next adventure?).

----------


## Archmage1

On a side note...

Since we have moved to milestone levels, rather than XP, how does that affect spells that cost XP as a part of their casting?

----------


## kinem

Thats a good question. I think Ill go with the following system:

Once during a level, you can cast each such spell without paying any xp.

After that, you must use material components costing 5 gp per xp that the spell would normally cost.

----------


## Archmage1

Excellent, thank you.   :Small Smile:

----------


## tonberryking

I'm going to figure out my shopping tomorrow after work, mainly because I have the day after tomorrow off and can spend as much time as I please doing so.

----------


## Archmage1

It will be fun!  I think I linked you to the list of "necessary" magical items.  Bunko's bargain basement is also useful, potentially.

http://www.davidtanger.com/2017/01/b...gain-basement/
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ry-Magic-Items

Of course, neither are necessarily fun, but sadly, the fun magical items tend to be extremely expensive and not do much.

----------


## Cavir

Seems Avakuss needs flight. Was thinking of adding Phoenix Cloak ability to my current cloak which will cost me 62k. Currently have 26k so hopefully will have enough after the next expedition.

----------


## Archmage1

Flight is nice, although not as necessary as the various lists show, assuming your DM isn't evil.  It really only comes into play in open air environments.  And a good jump can often cover for it.  On the other hand, when you need it, you really need it.

After our next expedition, we might want to seriously consider selling some of the tools we've acquired, like the rod of force, the cabinet, and the mirror.  However, when selling, each individual gets 1/12th of the value, so selling things tends to not work in our favor, which really helps to keep them more useful as items.  Which, honestly, I do like.  I find it boring when all itemization is "And we sell the stuff the DM gave us to buy the mechanically optimal but boring stuff."

Of course, at the same time, I tend to over-optimize, as kinem can attest to.(Yes, Eilyra is kind of garbage as a wizard, and garbage as a fighter, but she can do both at the same time, which becomes not garbage.)

Eilyra's current purchase goals are a Third Eye Penetrate(+2 vs SR)(8k).  Past that... maybe a better weapon?(Add Keen?(14k))  Which is somewhat tricky, to say the least.  Ioun stones, a luckstone, a healing belt, maybe the armor stone that boosts saves vs mental effects.  More intelligence or dex boosts, wisdom boosts...

To really boost her damage output, a tome of strength +5(Or 5 wishes)(125k), and a dark chaos shuffle(Retrain Weapon Prof:  Longbow for Power attack) would probably be the most effective way.(She could probably reliably manage a PA of 10, and still hit things.  Could spike up to her max 17 with enough arcane striking)

Defensively, she's got the 50% evasion, and boosting her AC further isn't really practical, absent significant cheese or custom magical items.(Things like a monk's belt that operates on cha or int, non-standard AC boosts)

Plus spell scrolls.  If we get downtime to scribe spells.  :Small Frown: 

Sadly, she has gained ~40k in wealth over the course of the game, which is mostly reflected in a cloak of charisma... which doesn't do her much good at the moment, since she still hasn't had the time to finish the 32 hours needed to scribe the spell that would combine with it.

----------


## Archmage1

On another note, to what degree do we want to do shopping?

----------


## Cavir

I'm saving up, no shopping needed.

----------


## RCgothic

I don't know what I'd get at this point. Maybe a mattress :Small Red Face: 

I'm concerned about the potential anti-magic zone, but I don't think there's anything I can do about that.

----------


## Archmage1

Yeah.  So... no need for shopping?  Or perhaps we do some off screen shopping, spend the night, and head out for Bavia?

Eilyra does have some reading and writing to do, after all.

----------


## tonberryking

I don't think I need to roleplay out the shopping but I do need to finish up my selections.

----------


## Archmage1

If you'd like help, we can probably suggest items, given a budget?

----------


## Archmage1

Ok, so, timeskip time?

Plans:  Do shopping.
Cast Magnificent Mansion(Eilyra)
Read books(1656 total possible, which will fit within 3 hours)
Rest, prepare spells, do a little scribing.
Conquer Bavia.

----------


## Cavir

> Ok, so, timeskip time?
> 
> Plans:  Do shopping.
> Cast Magnificent Mansion(Eilyra)
> Read books(1656 total possible, which will fit within 3 hours)
> Rest, prepare spells, do a little scribing.
> Conquer Bavia.


Time skipping the conquering? Where's the fun in that?  :Small Tongue: 

Shortly before bed, will re-up some longer lasting powers.

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## tonberryking

Hey Archmage? What book/source material is that armor crystal of mind shielding in?  The one I found in the MiC costs way less than 120k and only offers a modifer vs. mind effects.  Been looking up and down for that thing.

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## Archmage1

The Armor Crystal of mind shielding is in MiC, and gives a +5 competence to mind affecting for 10k gold.

There is also a 120k gold item, Third Eye Conceal, which provides mind blank.

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## Archmage1

Ok, presuming that we're RPing shopping, I think Eilyra probably isn't going to be the first post in response.   :Small Smile:

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## kinem

We dont have to RP it. Since Vanya - and RC - are new to Sigil, I just thought I should mention some of what shed see.

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## Archmage1

If we're moving to morning, and the trip to Bavia, am I correct in thinking that I can safely re-prepare Eilyra's spells, and recast her buffs that are going to be fading?

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## kinem

Yes, thats fine.

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## Archmage1

Excellent!  That is spell prep done, and buff management complete!  She's got about 10 hours left on a few, so she is prepared to recast them, but has not done so yet.

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## Archmage1

We should probably also use our cabinet of feasting, for some heroes feast goodies, without the need to spend an hour on it.  At least, assuming I am reading the cabinet of feasting properly, anyway.

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## kinem

> This cabinet has the ability to produce a feast for up to forty people, three times per day. Merely opening the doors of the cabinet reveals platters of food of all types and flavors of the very freshest sort. The meal has all the qualities and benefits of that produced by a heroes feast spell.


That is my interpretation as well. If more than forty people want to eat, or if you want to eat again (perhaps to refresh the temporary hp), it will use another of the three daily charges of the cabinet. Once the charges are used up for the day, the remaining of the forty meals can be consumed, but will not provide refreshed benefits if you already received the effects of the last charge.

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## RCgothic

The spell Heroes' Feast specifies 1h to consume the food produced. I'm not sure we get around that just because we're not the ones doing the casting?

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## Archmage1

The item specifies that the food has all the qualities and benefits of that produced by a heroes feast spell.

Now, taking one hour to eat it might be a quality of the food, true.  On the other hand, this is an epic item.

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## tonberryking

Okay... so...

I did fall off the wagon a bit while trying to re-do my character as Rush's adjustments to level 18 either vanished or I didn't complete them properly at some point on top of trying to spend money.

And I'm going through personal stuff again which leads to my focus getting into tunnel vision.

I'm sorry I delayed things again, especially just as we got a new player; I'll try to clean up things when I finish my shift tomorrow and into my offday thursday...

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## Archmage1

Yeah... I've had mythweavers eat updates a few times, especially from my phone.  I think it might have to do with the save not working properly, or something, or maybe the phone not refreshing properly when opening it up again?  Really, really annoying.
And leveling up multiple times is a time consuming thing, especially if you are playing a new type of character.

But no worries!  Just poke in, speak up, and let Rush be the silently intimidating one in the back, growling?

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## Archmage1

Downside of playing a more "worldly" character:  DM presents an awe inspiring scene.

PC:  Meh, it is Tuesday.

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## kinem

Everything OK?

I assume that no one wants to explore Union. If that's so, it'll be on to Bavia in my next IC post.

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## Archmage1

Eilyra's for continuing along.  If we were looking for things to buy, or had some other reason to look around, or even if Vanya or Rush or Avakuss expressed a desire to poke around a bit, that could change.

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## tonberryking

I'm sorry...I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm having all kinds of RL problems, and it's hard for me to focus properly and cover all my bases...

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## kinem

TBK: Real life comes first, for all of us. I hope things get smoother for you soon. Combat is unlikely to happen right away, BTW - at least in game and hopefully IRL for you too.

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## Archmage1

So... about that combat not happening right away.  :Small Tongue: 

On another note, what are the chances that mind blank is going to cause issues for their divination tool?  Would Eilyra have any idea of whether it was going to prevent whatever truthseeking spell they are using from registering lies?  Or any knowledge about their laws around the whole seeking out and exterminating cults of madness?

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## kinem

Mind Blank: You don't know for sure, but if the camera has something like True Seeing, Mind Blank would work to block it. It also would block mid-level lie detection.

Laws: You don't know for sure, but such action is probably illegal.

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## Archmage1

Ah, the benefits of ignorance + being able to provide absolutely accurate information that isn't going to mean anything at all.   :Small Big Grin:

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## Archmage1

While we wait for our intrepid party to make it through the checkpoint...  

What sort of merchandise is on display?  Touristy stuff?  Books?  Food, weapons, pets?

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## RCgothic

Sorry, I've been having a bad time recently with ADHD. Wanted to post, physically couldn't.  :Small Sigh:  I'll catch up IC now.

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## kinem

RC: Understood.

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## Archmage1

As a heads up, I'm probably not going to be terribly available for the next couple of days.  Something Something prolonged plane trip.

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## kinem

AM: Understood. I hope your trip goes well.

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## Archmage1

Should we presume that everyone's through?  I suppose my current "best" idea for actually finding our target is teleporting into the sky above the mountains, and hoping to spot something.

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## Cavir

Remember that Avakuss doesn't have flight.

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## Archmage1

True, but both Rush and Vanya(I think) are strong enough to carry him.  The big question is "Will we see anything of interest from the air?"  There wasn't anything of interest in the books that Eilyra read about the area.

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## kinem

tonberryking has decided to bow out, at least for now.

I'm not sure what to do but I think I will try to keep the game going.

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## Cavir

We've got arcane, divine, and fighter (with psionics) plus Center. May not have the numbers but we're at least somewhat rounded.

Eilyra could pop up high and scout for the location, then we all approach more subtly.

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## Archmage1

Aim a teleport into the area, then fly up, and see what we can see?  That can work.

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## Archmage1

Would it be possible to use a knowledge check to narrow down the location of the gate a bit more?  Or was a more exact description contained within the books Eilyra read?

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## kinem

No, that information is not something you would have encountered. You don't even know for sure that the gate is in this general area, though it's an educated guess.

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## Archmage1

That does make life a bit trickier.  But, time to see if we get lucky.   :Small Smile:

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## Archmage1

Does it seem that our enchanted gear is still working upon entering the area?

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## Archmage1

On another note, my availability is likely to drop a bit until the 15th(ish).  I should still be able to post, but not necessarily.

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## kinem

> Does it seem that our enchanted gear is still working upon entering the area?


Yes, in general it seems unaffected, though if any relates to divinations, ask about specific effects.

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## Cavir

> Yes, in general it seems unaffected, though if any relates to divinations, ask about specific effects.


How about Steadfast Perception? Immunity to all figments and glamers (such as invisibility) and a bonus to my high Spot.

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## kinem

> How about Steadfast Perception? Immunity to all figments and glamers (such as invisibility) and a bonus to my high Spot.


The immunity part doesnt work, but you still get the bonus to Spot.

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## Archmage1

It's sad being 20th level, and still having to walk places.

Is Eilyra able to determine the center of the sphere from the information we have, to within a reasonable margin of error?

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## kinem

Center said the effect is centered approximately around the cliff. Thats the only real information you have at this point.

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## Cavir

> The terrain becomes more hilly and rocky as you approach the mountain.
> 
> *Spoiler: Avakuss*
> Show
> 
> Your wilderness survival skills and keen eyes lead you to notice some crushed vegetation and partial footprints that could have been left by a large pair of boots.


Large as in giant? Large pace? How fresh? Headed to the cliff?
Nope, don't have Tracking.

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## kinem

The tracks look like a giant could have made them. They are probably a few days old at most. The land isn't really flat, so you really can't tell what direction they were headed. If you had the proper training, you could probably follow them.

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## Archmage1

Would the tracks qualify as easy tracks, thus allowing untrained survival to track them?

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## kinem

If they did, he would not have needed the proper training  :Small Big Grin:

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## Archmage1

Hm. So we don't notice them at all, then? Eilyra could turn someone into a dog? Alternatively, she does have scent herself, if that would be helpful(courtesy of her warblade stance)(of course, with her wisdom...)

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## kinem

To notice them would take a Survival check. These are subtle signs because the ground is fairly hard, which is why the place makes for a good secret base. If you have the Scent ability I will let you follow these tracks.

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## Archmage1

Hopefully Avakuss mentions them. :P

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## Archmage1

Have any of Eilyra's conjured eyes returned at any point?

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## kinem

You got some back but they reported nothing of particular interest.

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## Archmage1

Ok.  No reports of the eye in front vanishing from one of the trailing eyes?

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## kinem

No reports of that, but you did cast it pretty far out from the cliff.

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## Archmage1

That is true.   :Small Smile:   At least we know that there is nothing notable visible from on high.   :Small Smile:

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## kinem

Combat soon.

RCGothic: You haven't posted for this game for a while. Everything OK?

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## Cavir

Avakuss Init (1d20+4)[*12*]

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## RCgothic

I'm really sorry, been having a terrible time IRL ATM. I'm behind in all my games and I'm currently ill with COVID. I hope I'll be able to catch up soon. :Small Frown:

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## Archmage1

Eilyra takes 42 damage, 30 of which chips away her thp, and the remainder hits her health.

The downside of flat footed:  No immediate actions.

(1d20+23)[*33*] Init.

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## kinem

RCgothic: I hope you feel better soon. RL always comes first.

Vanya's Init: (1d20+14)[*33*]

Center's Init: (1d20+6)[*20*]

Eilyra and Vanya to act.

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## Archmage1

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone!

Maybe there's a tree on the other side of the wall!  :P

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## Archmage1

I'm likely to have reduced availability from the 27th until Jan 3rd, but there should only be one section of 2-3 days of no availability.

I'm really not sure what actions Elyria will be taking ic at the moment, as it will depend on what she sees.

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## Archmage1

I think war trolls are monstrous humanoids?

(1d20+37)[*43*] Know:  Local(War Trolls.)

And I think buying a little time to get prepared seems worth it.

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## kinem

AM: You can pretty much read the monster manual with your Knowledge bonuses.

It will be at least a round before any enemies will do much that you notice. Vanya and Avakuss can act therefore now.

If RC is not up to posting this week, we'll have to figure something out. Generally if something like that happens I prefer if the other players take the reins.

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## Archmage1

By the door being thick, does that mean it is too thick for Eilyra's universal key?(Disintegrate)

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## kinem

More than 10 thick? You would guess not, but you cant really see how thick it is.

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## Archmage1

Excellent!  Now, the question is more when will everyone recover from new years.  :)

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## Cavir

> If RC is not up to posting this week, we'll have to figure something out. Generally if something like that happens I prefer if the other players take the reins.


I don't at all mind helping out with that. I'm back home on 1/4/23 and will post for Vanya if someone (hopefully RCGothic!) hasn't beaten me to it.

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## RCgothic

I'm recovered and getting back into my games now. Sorry for the interruption in service.  :Small Red Face:

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## Archmage1

I'm glad you've recovered!

I think it is now the troll's turn, so time to see if they do things?

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## kinem

RC: Good to see you are better!

*Spoiler: Vanya*
Show

The wall is thick enough to muffle all but the loudest noise. You would guess that the scraping sound could be made by a huge door (similar to the one you see) being opened or closed.

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## Cavir

Did the Wall of Stone spell cover their whole wall (minus door)? If Eilyra is CL17 then I don't think it will cover the whole wall, creating a weaker point to break through. Granted it'll just be a 5' wide section at first. Teleport/Dimension Door after that can help.

Size Huge, Flurry of Blows, Form of Doom, Haste, maxed Power Attack, Adamantine affect.... might do a little damage  :Small Cool: 

Temporal Acceleration to get everything ready.

Then again, Disintegrate/Passwall will allow Avakuss to get through to the enemy (Hustle) with a full attack, or Shock Trooper... so many options...

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## Archmage1

Eilyra is ecl 17(as in, slots of a 17th level wizard), but is cl 23.  I think the wards tone blocks divination and teleport action, and the firing slits are well covered. Disintegrate probably makes the most sense, if we want to get through quickly, as Eilyra would still be able to cast another spell based on the other side. Unless Avakuss can just open the gate.

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## Cavir

Yeah, go for it. The door might be better in case the double walls count separately. Get the hinges (if there are any) and the whole thing can come down.

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## Archmage1

And Operation Lockpick has been started.  Eilyra now has 2 disintegrates remaining for the day.

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## Archmage1

I'm afraid I won't be able to post until tomorrow evening, as my internet access is limited. About 24 hours or so. Eilyra will probably be doing... Something.

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## Archmage1

That first attack may be a crit:  (1d20+41)[*58*] crit confirm
(1d10+20)[*22*] bonus damage
(10d6)[*29*]*1.5 vampiric touch crit

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## Cavir

I'm still here, sorry. I'm going to use Temporal Acceleration. Working out the details and the many attacks I'll have (Flurry + Form of Doom). Hopefully post in the morning.

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## Cavir

It's no Maw of Chaos, but pulling out the big guns. Idea is to pound them into so much paste that we have time to deal with the others even with regeneration. No crits and no Nat 1s. Still have 20% miss chance on their attacks.

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## Archmage1

It is quite the pounding.

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## Archmage1

Does nonlethal damage not count as damage?  Because that seems a little logically inconsistent:  For example, under unarmed strike damage:  "All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage".  That seems to imply that nonlethal damage is still damage.

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## kinem

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/in...onlethalDamage

Nonlethal damage is not real damage. Like a lot of words in D&D, damage has many meanings.

I see VT as representing transfer of life force which is represented by hit points. Nonlethal damage does not take hit points from the target, hence it cant transfer them to you.

Im not sure this is the right way to rule this, but it did make sense to me. I couldnt find any discussion on the web about it, which is unusual. Am I the only one who thought this way about it?

This ruling could change but I would prefer at least some discussion about it.

BTW, the nonlethal totals I originally posted were before regeneration and have now been corrected. The total hp I originally posted for the trolls may not have been correct and has been removed from the IC post.

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## Cavir

Since Strength of My Enemy is about tracking STR damage per target and I'm hoping any benefits may last into our next fight I'm trying to break it down by the current temp damage. That was four hits on T1 and 5 hits on T5? 

My belt gives +6 STR so I have to get past that for the drains to benefit me (though the trolls still feel it).

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## Archmage1

Their vitality is still drained, it is just that they can recover from the drain far more quickly than normal.

If it helps, you can cast vampiric touch non-lethally(snowcasting + subdual spell)

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## Archmage1

My posting is likely to be a bit limited over the next few days(I'm traveling). My current thought is shape change into something with acid damage that works with shape change...

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## Archmage1

On another note, for acid damage sources, does an Alchemical Golem or Prismatic Golem work?  If a Prismatic Golem is chosen, would Eilyra be able to choose the effect?

"A prismatic golem attacks with luminous tendrils that extend from its body. A tendril's color is determined randomly, since the *golem lacks the intelligence to choose colors on its own*. The effect of the touch attack is based on the tendril's color, as shown on the following table. The save DCs are Charisma-based."

(For reference, Shapechange)

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## Archmage1

I'm probably not going to be able to post for the next couple of days, as I'm going to be having a great deal of fun in a fast moving aluminum can.

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