# Forum > Discussion > Media Discussions >  Ho-oh (Pokemon) Vs. Phoenix (Monster Rancher)

## Bartmanhomer

Hello everyone. Today I going to do a battle analysis between Ho-oh from Pokemon and Phoenix from Monster Rancher. Both of them are legendary powerful birds within their own merits. First, Ho-oh: Ho-oh is a legendary bird created by the three legendary beast trio. It has moves such as Sacred Fire, Weather Ball, Gust, Whirlwind, etc. Now, Phoenix: Phoenix is a very powerful and legendary bird who fought the evil dragon, Moo. Phoenix has fire moves mostly such as Fire Wave, Fire Tornado, Fire Twister, etc. If Phoenix was a Pokemon, obviously it will be a fire/flying type. This battle will come down to a draw because both of them are evenly matched. So what do you think of this battle analysis? I love to hear your thoughts.  :Smile:

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## KillianHawkeye

I would say that Ho-oh is basically a pokemon version of a phoenix already, so all things being equal, it would be equal to any other kind of phoenix.

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## Bartmanhomer

> I would say that Ho-oh is basically a pokemon version of a phoenix already, so all things being equal, it would be equal to any other kind of phoenix.


Yes. That's true.

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## tyckspoon

Monster Rancher isn't as well documented as Pokemon, so there may well be aspects of this that I'm not aware of.. but I would make a conditional bet on Ho-oh - it'll depend a lot on Ho-oh's current moveset. Ho-oh appears to have much better access to non-fire attacks than Phoenix, so while they're both quite resistant to the other's primary/signature attacks Ho-oh can more easily switch out to something like Ancient Power, Future Sight, Extrasensory, or Sky Attack to hit a non-resistance (and, in the case of Ancient Power, potentially a 4x Weakness if we are transcribing Phoenix as also being Fire/Flying!) Or tank out Phoenix's fire and buff up with Calm Mind/Recover, then smash through Phoenix with a superbuff Fire Blast.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Monster Rancher isn't as well documented as Pokemon, so there may well be aspects of this that I'm not aware of.. but I would make a conditional bet on Ho-oh - it'll depend a lot on Ho-oh's current moveset. Ho-oh appears to have much better access to non-fire attacks than Phoenix, so while they're both quite resistant to the other's primary/signature attacks Ho-oh can more easily switch out to something like Ancient Power, Future Sight, Extrasensory, or Sky Attack to hit a non-resistance (and, in the case of Ancient Power, potentially a 4x Weakness if we are transcribing Phoenix as also being Fire/Flying!) Or tank out Phoenix's fire and buff up with Calm Mind/Recover, then smash through Phoenix with a superbuff Fire Blast.


I agree with you. Ho-oh has a lot of non-fire moves than Phoenix.

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## HolyDraconus

> I agree with you. Ho-oh has a lot of non-fire moves than Phoenix.


Phoenix has this easy. If it was any regular one maybe. But you specifically called out the one that fought Moo. The Moo who was a bio weapon that literally fought armies and then made some of his own. And when I say fight I mean razed to the ground like cutting fields of wheat. THAT Phoenix is a primordial monster that helped create life.

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## Razade

> Phoenix has this easy. If it was any regular one maybe. But you specifically called out the one that fought Moo. The Moo who was a bio weapon that literally fought armies and then made some of his own. And when I say fight I mean razed to the ground like cutting fields of wheat. THAT Phoenix is a primordial monster that helped create life.


In fairness (and because Bart messed it up) Ho-Oh wasn't created by the Legendary Dogs. Ho-oh brought _them_ back to life after their original forms were burned in the fire of Tin Tower. It's implied both in the games and the various movies it has the power over life and can grant "eternal happiness". Ho-oh is on some level a primordial entity like all the rest of the major Legendary Trio heads.

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## Bartmanhomer

> In fairness (and because Bart messed it up) Ho-Oh wasn't created by the Legendary Dogs. Ho-oh brought _them_ back to life after their original forms were burned in the fire of Tin Tower. It's implied both in the games and the various movies it has the power over life and can grant "eternal happiness". Ho-oh is on some level a primordial entity like all the rest of the major Legendary Trio heads.


Sorry about that. I meant that Ho-Oh created the Legendary Beast Trio.

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## HolyDraconus

> In fairness (and because Bart messed it up) Ho-Oh wasn't created by the Legendary Dogs. Ho-oh brought _them_ back to life after their original forms were burned in the fire of Tin Tower. It's implied both in the games and the various movies it has the power over life and can grant "eternal happiness". Ho-oh is on some level a primordial entity like all the rest of the major Legendary Trio heads.


Hooh still isnt at bare minimum a country wide threat. Moo ended civilizations. He was defeated by being separated from his body which had the by product of slowly killing him. Phoenix fought that thing to a standstill. When he was at full power.  Hooh cant even say he created all life cause he was rumored to only have helped three Pokémon, when arceus didnt and mew not caring. Phoenix flat out cant be permanently killed.

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