# Forum > Discussion > Friendly Banter > Support Personal Woes and Advice 6

## WarKitty

It makes a difference to be able to turn to others on this forum for advice, compassion, and support when things are difficult. This is a unique community where friendship, kindness, and acceptance are the rule. Hurtful behavior is rare. When it does occur it is never tolerated, and the staff seek to prevent it from recurring, whether it was caused by a lapse in judgement or intentional cruelty.

It is therefore with great pleasure that I share with you the new rules that will allow friends on this forum to continue to help each other out and to maintain the bonds that grow when friends share their troubles. 

I would like to emphasize that these rules are not mine, although I agree with them. The rules were the effort of the entire Giant in the Playground staff, who recognize the need for friends to share their troubles. It was hard work, and they deserve our thanks. 

Part of the definition of friendship is the sharing of troubles. That is the goal of this thread: to share our problems in a way that strengthens our community. The new rules are devised to make this possible. 

Please carefully read what follows:

THE RULES FOR THE PERSONAL WOES AND ADVICE THREAD

The Personal Woes and Advice thread is a place to discuss our daily troubles and seek advice on minor personal matters that get us down. For serious depression or mental health issues, please seek help from a professional.

Like many other threads here on GitP, we've got a number of rules to help set the tone and head off issues likely to arise in this kind of thread. Please read them carefully and follow them.

1. Of course, follow the Forum Rules. If you haven't read them recently (or ever - *gasp*), you should do so now. And giving them another read before you post something particularly emotionally charged or contentious might also be a good idea.

2. This thread is not for the treatment of or the discussion of the treatment of serious depression or mental health issues. Someone posting about those issues or seeking what would seem to call for licensed professional mental health advice should be referred to seek such advice. When in doubt, limit your response to friendly support and a suggestion to seek real world professional help. Think before you offer advice about how to be friendly, supportive, and not offer advice better left to a licensed professional in a professional setting.

3. Feel free to post here to share your feelings, vent, and request advice. It's perfectly fine if you just want to share or commiserate. If you want advice, ask; if you specifically don't want advice, just say so. If you want to be contacted via PM, say so; if not, say that. 

4. Romantic issues are probably better discussed in the Relationship Woes and Advice thread.

5. No problem is too small or insignificant. If it's bothering you, feel free to share. People should refrain from weighing or comparing their problems to other people's problems. Minimizing someone's problems or comparing your problems to theirs isn't helpful or friendly. Please don't do that.

6. This is advice that you are getting from friends over the internet. Take it with a grain of salt. This advice is not professional, nor is it always the best. 

7. If you feel you are not receiving the help you need, or deem yourself a danger to yourself and/or others, seek professional help immediately!

8. Prescribing medication is something that requires multiple licenses. Please don't do that here or expect others to do that here. If you are on medication and find them not working or not working properly, call your doctor immediately.

9. Please, never suggest to someone that they harm themselves or others.

10. Remember, it is not your job to "fix" anyone here and it is not a requirement for posting here that a person wants to be, or wants their problem to be, "fixed."

And finally: Please remember your safety before posting any personal information or before giving or accepting any support. The following site provides some useful internet safety guidance for adults.

*Past Threads*
Personal Woes and Advice
Personal Woes and Advice 2
Personal Woes and Advice 3
Personal Woes and Advice 4
Personal Woes and Advice 5

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## Mith

Good call for making this thread.  Even though I (thankfully) have not needed this thread, I have always kept an eye on it.

I may have responses for the last few posts of the old thread later today once I have time.

In the mean time, Happy Easter to those that follow it, and Happy Days for those who do not.

-Mith

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## Bartmanhomer

> Good call for making this thread.  Even though I (thankfully) have not needed this thread, I have always kept an eye on it.
> 
> I may have responses for the last few posts of the old thread later today once I have time.
> 
> In the meantime, Happy Easter to those that follow it, and Happy Days for those who do not.
> 
> -Mith


Agreed. Happy Easter to you too and everybody else.

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## Wookieetank

Continuing the theme of terrible things happening to parents  :Small Frown: :

Found out over the weekend that my mom is going in for several cancer diagnostic procedures later this week.  My mom likes to super sugar coat things to "protect" her children, so I'm pretty sure she's already gotten the news she has cancer, and the real question at this point is what kind and how bad.  Only found out about it cause my dad let it slip to my youngest brother, and my mom wanted me to know about it from her not him.  :Small Sigh:

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## Jon_Dahl

Sometimes I find it difficult to live with my father for short periods. I don't live with my parents. I have my own apartment and my own life, but I like to visit my dad. The problem is that sometimes he comes but with strange plans that I don't fully understand and which he can't explain very well. The instructions can be very (demonstrative) pronoun-rich, such as "Get that from there and put it there". His speech is so unclear that I can't always understand what he wants. Now he wanted my help and listened to his plan and it sounded so bad that I told him: "I had a long day at the university and my mind is tired. I would be happy to help you, but I'm afraid that if I don't understand your instructions right away, we will both end up getting angry and say things that we will regret. I'd rather make you sad by declining my help than to fight you over nothing, and I'm sure that we will fight over nothing if I help you with this." So he went to do what he wanted to do alone. I'm sad that I didn't help him, but we can have more peace when I don't do things with him. The less we cooperate, the less we fight.

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## Tvtyrant

So I am in the first relationship to last more then three months, and I'm fairly certain it is dead.

My girlfriend and I spent every weekend of January and February together, we were talking about moving in together and things seemed to be going well. Then in March she started slamming breaks, we spent o ly two weekends together (the first and last weekend of the month.) The last weekend of March she basically ignored me the whole weekend, hanging out with her roommate and got me to move furniture instead. By Saturday night I was furious and withdrew a bit, went to bed early to calm down (my mom is abusive and I really don't like yelling.)

The next morning she wanted to know if I was breaking up with her, she brought up her abandonment issues and told me how withdrawn I was. I told her I was hurt that she wasn't spending time with me or prioritizing us when we did spend time together.

The three weekends since she has blocked my attempts to meet, either telling me she was to busy or cancelling at the last minute. She agreed to meet next weekend and is suddenly bombarding me with lovey messages about how funny I am and how much she likes me. It will be seven weeks since we spent actual time together, and a month since I said she wasn't prioritizing our relationship enough.

At this point I feel like the relationship is dead, but if she won't meet with me I don't even know how to break it off. I don't want to break up in the first place, but I already had a heart to heart about the issue and she has blown it off.

Edit: This sounds really obvious from an outsider perspective, but she regularly reassures me that she loves me and how scared she is I will dump her. I can't tell if it is a gaslight or she is just being really dumb about the whole thing.

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## lio45

> So I am in the first relationship to last more then three months, and I'm fairly certain it is dead.
> 
> My girlfriend and I spent every weekend of January and February together, we were talking about moving in together and things seemed to be going well. Then in March she started slamming breaks, we spent o ly two weekends together (the first and last weekend of the month.) The last weekend of March she basically ignored me the whole weekend, hanging out with her roommate and got me to move furniture instead. By Saturday night I was furious and withdrew a bit, went to bed early to calm down (my mom is abusive and I really don't like yelling.)
> 
> The next morning she wanted to know if I was breaking up with her, she brought up her abandonment issues and told me how withdrawn I was. I told her I was hurt that she wasn't spending time with me or prioritizing us when we did spend time together.
> 
> The three weekends since she has blocked my attempts to meet, either telling me she was to busy or cancelling at the last minute. She agreed to meet next weekend and is suddenly bombarding me with lovey messages about how funny I am and how much she likes me. It will be seven weeks since we spent actual time together, and a month since I said she wasn't prioritizing our relationship enough.
> 
> At this point I feel like the relationship is dead, but if she won't meet with me I don't even know how to break it off. I don't want to break up in the first place, but I already had a heart to heart about the issue and she has blown it off.
> ...


How old are you guys? She may just be... very young. Maybe she's sincere, and simply being awfully bad at a few things.

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## Comrade

Sounds to me like it could just be a case of the 'honeymoon period' in the relationship ending. You start off spending a ton of time together and when things inevitably slow down and you see each other a little less constantly you wind up feeling like things are going wrong. That and the issues you've mentioned her having could mean it's just her being bad at communication plus you assuming the worst because you're used to spending more time with her. Or heck, maybe she's just had a busy time the last few weeks. I wouldn't write things off just yet, especially since you're seeing her next weekend.

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## Tvtyrant

> How old are you guys? She may just be... very young. Maybe she's sincere, and simply being awfully bad at a few things.


She's 25, I am 29. 




> Sounds to me like it could just be a case of the 'honeymoon period' in the relationship ending. You start off spending a ton of time together and when things inevitably slow down and you see each other a little less constantly you wind up feeling like things are going wrong. That and the issues you've mentioned her having could mean it's just her being bad at communication plus you assuming the worst because you're used to spending more time with her. Or heck, maybe she's just had a busy time the last few weeks. I wouldn't write things off just yet, especially since you're seeing her next weekend.


Okay. I'll try not to work myself up into a pique of melodrama.

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## Zhentarim

Ive hated every job Ive ever had and will probably hate any replacement job I get, and the government job I have now wont give me full retirement for another 32 years (I have worked one year and the retirement formula is XP0.03, where X is the number of years worked, P is final pay, and 0.03 is the multiplier). I am looking at shooting for a promotion to have a better retirement, but just accomplishing the minimum at work is a real struggle since Im deeply exhausted 24/7 and plain burnt out.

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## Bastian Weaver

Yesterday I found out that my teacher died. A wonderful man, old-school stuntsman. He taught me all I could learn about fencing, dancing, and dealing with horses. Never refused to help when his students asked him. I miss him already.

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## Chen

> Ive hated every job Ive ever had and will probably hate any replacement job I get, and the government job I have now wont give me full retirement for another 32 years (I have worked one year and the retirement formula is XP0.03, where X is the number of years worked, P is final pay, and 0.03 is the multiplier). I am looking at shooting for a promotion to have a better retirement, but just accomplishing the minimum at work is a real struggle since Im deeply exhausted 24/7 and plain burnt out.


Is that the formula for your pension? Because it looks like a 3% defined benefit pension which is frankly crazy good. Practically no one gives that type of pension anymore.

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## Zhentarim

> Is that the formula for your pension? Because it looks like a 3% defined benefit pension which is frankly crazy good. Practically no one gives that type of pension anymore.


Yes. I was shocked myself. Thats why Im staying with the governmentnobody gives that kind of pension anymore. I just dont like the work.

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## ve4grm

> So I am in the first relationship to last more then three months, and I'm fairly certain it is dead.
> 
> My girlfriend and I spent every weekend of January and February together, we were talking about moving in together and things seemed to be going well. Then in March she started slamming breaks, we spent o ly two weekends together (the first and last weekend of the month.) The last weekend of March she basically ignored me the whole weekend, hanging out with her roommate and got me to move furniture instead. By Saturday night I was furious and withdrew a bit, went to bed early to calm down (my mom is abusive and I really don't like yelling.)
> 
> The next morning she wanted to know if I was breaking up with her, she brought up her abandonment issues and told me how withdrawn I was. I told her I was hurt that she wasn't spending time with me or prioritizing us when we did spend time together.
> 
> The three weekends since she has blocked my attempts to meet, either telling me she was to busy or cancelling at the last minute. She agreed to meet next weekend and is suddenly bombarding me with lovey messages about how funny I am and how much she likes me. It will be seven weeks since we spent actual time together, and a month since I said she wasn't prioritizing our relationship enough.
> 
> At this point I feel like the relationship is dead, but if she won't meet with me I don't even know how to break it off. I don't want to break up in the first place, but I already had a heart to heart about the issue and she has blown it off.
> ...


Right, so take this with a massive grain of salt, and I'm NOT SAYING THIS IS THE ACTUAL TRUTH...

...but what you're describing is very reminiscent to me of someone going through bipolar or fluctuating depressive episodes. Moving from great, to temporarily withdrawn, to lovey-dovey, to stressed, and avoiding contact during the worst times. I've been there, myself, when my depression wasn't yet managed.

Now this could indeed be that she has a mental condition that's playing into it, but even neurotypical folks have episodes like this at times, especially those with other issues (like her abandonment issues).

Suffice it to say that what's happened so far, while it's definitely something to keep an eye on and, when you can, discuss, is not out of the ordinary for normal human behaviour with someone you like.

Additionally, not seeing each other for a few weeks (I assume there's distance between you) is pretty normal, though less common in the early relationship like this. The lack of communication during that time is a bit weird, but explainable if stress is the cause.

My advice? When  you get together this weekend, ask her what's up. DON'T voice it as concern for the relationship, but concern for her, since she's seemed really busy and stressed lately, and you haven't seen each other for a while, and you want to know if things are alright, and if she's okay. This should get you past the initial abandonment reaction.

(Also make sure you're not pushing too much pressure at her during the times when she can't get together. Sometimes abandonment issues and commitment issues go hand in hand, so someone can read "I really want to see you, we haven't in a while" as high pressure and it can trigger their commitment reactions. If she cancels on you, be disappointed, but accepting. She's an adult with a life, after all, as are you. And try to express that disappointment in a way that gives her choice in things, like "Whenever you're able, I'd love to see you.")

But also watch how things go, and be aware of your own feelings and needs. It's possible this is weird gaslighting, but it's just impossible to say yet.

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## Kesnit

Work at my job picks up every two months; May is one of those months. For the past 6 years, my wife and I have gone to a Beltane event that occurs mid-May. Two year ago (my first at my job) and last year, I ended up having training the Friday of the Beltane weekend, so didn't get to the event until late Friday. This year, I was determined to get there Thursday to able to do the entire event.

I don't know my May schedule until the end of April. Since the last time I asked for 2 days off during a heavy month (November 2017, for a Samhein event), I got talked to by my boss, I decided the best thing to do would be wait and confirm that I wouldn't have anything that Thursday or Friday before asking for the days off. 

I got scheduled for work that Friday morning. Asking around, I got someone to cover for me, so thought I was good to ask for the time off. Nope, I got something else that morning, and the person who is covering for me does not have the certifications to cover both jobs. There is no one else who can cover for me. (Two people are in training. One person also has an event that day. The boss won't do those events. The last guy is the one who can't cover for me.) 

So now, I have to hang around until Friday (rather than leaving Thursday morning), for the off chance I may have to do a 15 minute thing that may or may not happen. And since the job won't know until 8:10 if I have to do it, the event is at 8:30, and I live 30 minutes from work, there is a real chance I will have to drive in (missing all of Thursday and half of Friday) for nothing. 

I am so furious. I tried to do the right thing, and I'm getting messed over for it.

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## Chen

> Work at my job picks up every two months; May is one of those months. For the past 6 years, my wife and I have gone to a Beltane event that occurs mid-May. Two year ago (my first at my job) and last year, I ended up having training the Friday of the Beltane weekend, so didn't get to the event until late Friday. This year, I was determined to get there Thursday to able to do the entire event.
> 
> I don't know my May schedule until the end of April. Since the last time I asked for 2 days off during a heavy month (November 2017, for a Samhein event), I got talked to by my boss, I decided the best thing to do would be wait and confirm that I wouldn't have anything that Thursday or Friday before asking for the days off. 
> 
> I got scheduled for work that Friday morning. Asking around, I got someone to cover for me, so thought I was good to ask for the time off. Nope, I got something else that morning, and the person who is covering for me does not have the certifications to cover both jobs. There is no one else who can cover for me. (Two people are in training. One person also has an event that day. The boss won't do those events. The last guy is the one who can't cover for me.) 
> 
> So now, I have to hang around until Friday (rather than leaving Thursday morning), for the off chance I may have to do a 15 minute thing that may or may not happen. And since the job won't know until 8:10 if I have to do it, the event is at 8:30, and I live 30 minutes from work, there is a real chance I will have to drive in (missing all of Thursday and half of Friday) for nothing. 
> 
> I am so furious. I tried to do the right thing, and I'm getting messed over for it.


Always ask for time off as far in advance as possible. Maybe not asking NOW for next May but far enough in advance so schedules can be made with that taken into account. 

I'm curious as to why your boss would have been upset that you asked in advance the time before that. Unless there's some sort of policy of NOT taking vacation during the heavy months. That's a separate issue then and if so you're at the mercy of their scheduling.

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## darkrose50

> So I am in the first relationship to last more then three months, and I'm fairly certain it is dead.
> 
> My girlfriend and I spent every weekend of January and February together, we were talking about moving in together and things seemed to be going well. Then in March she started slamming breaks, we spent o ly two weekends together (the first and last weekend of the month.) The last weekend of March she basically ignored me the whole weekend, hanging out with her roommate and got me to move furniture instead. By Saturday night I was furious and withdrew a bit, went to bed early to calm down (my mom is abusive and I really don't like yelling.)
> 
> The next morning she wanted to know if I was breaking up with her, she brought up her abandonment issues and told me how withdrawn I was. I told her I was hurt that she wasn't spending time with me or prioritizing us when we did spend time together.
> 
> The three weekends since she has blocked my attempts to meet, either telling me she was to busy or cancelling at the last minute. She agreed to meet next weekend and is suddenly bombarding me with lovey messages about how funny I am and how much she likes me. It will be seven weeks since we spent actual time together, and a month since I said she wasn't prioritizing our relationship enough.
> 
> At this point I feel like the relationship is dead, but if she won't meet with me I don't even know how to break it off. I don't want to break up in the first place, but I already had a heart to heart about the issue and she has blown it off.
> ...


Flowers, chocolate, and a note that says that you were thinking of her.  Bonus points for having it delivered at her place of work.

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## Kesnit

> I'm curious as to why your boss would have been upset that you asked in advance the time before that. Unless there's some sort of policy of NOT taking vacation during the heavy months. That's a separate issue then and if so you're at the mercy of their scheduling.


It is very much frowned upon to ask for 2 days in a heavy month before the schedule comes out. My boss let me do it last time because (1) I was new and didn't know, and (2) because I was new, I didn't have as much that needed to be scheduled. 

Next year, there is a good chance that the training I took last year will be on the Friday of Beltane. (My two co-workers that are in training are taking the training I did last year.) My job requires a certain number of certain types of training hours every 2 years, those hours are not always easy to come by, and this all-day training completes the hours. (Oh, and it's free.) If I don't take the training, I have to find my own training hours and pay for them.

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## Chen

> It is very much frowned upon to ask for 2 days in a heavy month before the schedule comes out. My boss let me do it last time because (1) I was new and didn't know, and (2) because I was new, I didn't have as much that needed to be scheduled.


But is it ok to ask after the schedule comes out? I guess only if you have nothing scheduled there?




> Next year, there is a good chance that the training I took last year will be on the Friday of Beltane. (My two co-workers that are in training are taking the training I did last year.) My job requires a certain number of certain types of training hours every 2 years, those hours are not always easy to come by, and this all-day training completes the hours. (Oh, and it's free.) If I don't take the training, I have to find my own training hours and pay for them.


I mean I guess this is just unfortunate scheduling but if you can't arrange them to change it, you're more or less stuck with it then right? Nothing to do about it. Certainly reasonable to be upset about it of course. Thing is, with enough advance warning you'd think they could change the training day...

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## Kesnit

> But is it ok to ask after the schedule comes out? I guess only if you have nothing scheduled there?


Yes. I have some control over the schedule, and made a point of not scheduling anything those days. It was only after that I found out that I got schedule for some recurring work. 




> Thing is, with enough advance warning you'd think they could change the training day...


The training is state-wide training, and our office has no control over the day. I suspect I am the only person in the state who (1) wants that training, and (2) wants to go this Beltane festival.

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## Tvtyrant

Update on my relationship melodrama:

I stayed over last weekend, it went fairly well. Her roommate walked in Saturday afternoon and then stuck around for several hours after I went to bed, leaving around 3AM. My girlfriend was basically unconcious Sunday from staying up all night Saturday with the roommate, so I went home around noon.

Apparently my girlfriend promised her roommate they would spend this weekend together, because the roommate was lonely. They live together, and I had not seen GF in a month and the roommate jumped in on the one weekend I did see GF. So I'm shunted into the vague future again.

It feels like my options are a confrontation that is going to feel clingy and controlling about the roommate, or putting some emotional distance between us.

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## Comrade

I'd say it sounds like you both just have different ideas of how much space should exist in a relationship. She's okay with spending that amount of time with you that frequently, seems like you ain't. Putting emotional distance is just a recipe for making yourself more unhappy (and basically putting yourself on the track to a breakup without committing to it), but I also wouldn't make it a 'confrontation' about her roommate. It's probably time to talk to her about what you both want/need out of a relationship and whether your respective wants/needs align. Doesn't have to be confrontational or about anybody but you and her, but if it's really messing with you that much, the best thing you can do is just talk to her about it.

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## Solamnicknight

Hi, does anyone have advice on dealing with a friend whose thinking is very black and white and gets angry when you disagree with them? He has autism and bipolar disorder and I have autism and anxiety. How I deal with my anxiety I think is that I come across as laid back, but I also feel that it makes me come across like I dont care about certain issues which I do, I just dont like to get upset overthinking things, which can throw me into severe bouts of depression. I think my coping mechanism irritates my friend and this becomes particularly apparent when we disagree on stuff because he starts raising his voice at me and I tend to shut down or avoid the confrontation. I dont feel this is healthy at all and just want some outside input on the situation.

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## zlefin

> Hi, does anyone have advice on dealing with a friend whose thinking is very black and white and gets angry when you disagree with them? He has autism and bipolar disorder and I have autism and anxiety. How I deal with my anxiety I think is that I come across as laid back, but I also feel that it makes me come across like I dont care about certain issues which I do, I just dont like to get upset overthinking things, which can throw me into severe bouts of depression. I think my coping mechanism irritates my friend and this becomes particularly apparent when we disagree on stuff because he starts raising his voice at me and I tend to shut down or avoid the confrontation. I dont feel this is healthy at all and just want some outside input on the situation.


is the friend willing to take some steps to make things easier on you if you ask them?
would they be willing to try to avoid upsetting you/raising their voice?
or at least willing to agree to a deal whereby all contentious topics are avoided, and if one is raised either can simply note it's contentious and it will be dropped entirely?

have you asked them whether it actually irritates them?  maybe the actual irritation is something else; or they'd simply understand if you describe your problem to them.

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## Solamnicknight

> is the friend willing to take some steps to make things easier on you if you ask them?
> would they be willing to try to avoid upsetting you/raising their voice?
> or at least willing to agree to a deal whereby all contentious topics are avoided, and if one is raised either can simply note it's contentious and it will be dropped entirely?
> 
> have you asked them whether it actually irritates them?  maybe the actual irritation is something else; or they'd simply understand if you describe your problem to them.


Im going to talk to him and just make sure everything is cool, and let him know how Ive been feeling. Ive been stressed, Im going into an exciting new job and Im figuring things out about myself at the same time so thats been nerve-wracking. Thanks for the advice!

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## darkrose50

> Hi, does anyone have advice on dealing with a friend whose thinking is very black and white and gets angry when you disagree with them? He has autism and bipolar disorder and I have autism and anxiety. How I deal with my anxiety I think is that I come across as laid back, but I also feel that it makes me come across like I dont care about certain issues which I do, I just dont like to get upset overthinking things, which can throw me into severe bouts of depression. I think my coping mechanism irritates my friend and this becomes particularly apparent when we disagree on stuff because he starts raising his voice at me and I tend to shut down or avoid the confrontation. I dont feel this is healthy at all and just want some outside input on the situation.


There is this famous gentleman named Daryl Davis who makes friends with people from hate groups via listening to them.  After he listens he then changes their minds about hating people.  I would look him up and use his advice on how to talk to people with different opinions (as I think that he would be a grandmaster at the subject).

Hear his side of things and let him know your side of things.  Let him know that there are different ways of looking at things, and that this is a needed component of human technological advancement and biological evolution (evolution does not always mean better).  If everyone thought the same, then we would not have all the specialization and technological improvement that we all benefit from.  Some of us are curious about others, and this leads towards cooperation and advancement of ideas.  Some are suspicious of others and this leads towards protection and stability.  Some think with pure logic, and some think with pure emotion.  We need scientists and we also need kindergarten teachers.  We have different people with different abilities in order to thrive.  Different types of people all think differently and all these people have different most "correct" answers to how to do things.

My sister-in-law does not poses a high capacity for logical thinking, and so she uses memorization to remember how things work.  This sounds dreadful to me.  I have a high capacity for logical-thinking so I do not memorize how things work.  She is better at memorization than I am, and I am better at troubleshooting than she is.  We both get the thing to work.  We both used our most "correct" answer.  If someone wanted me to memorize a bunch of things that I could just figure out when I needed to, then I would want to beat my head against the wall.  Pilots and surgeons use checklists so that they do not have to memorize everything (this works better for them, rather then memorizing the list).  I bet that when surgeons and pilots go grocery shopping without a list that they forget things.  I know I do.

In fact folks with autism are in vogue just now as IQ (logical problem-solving) is useful in computer programing and engineering.  You know the archetypal absent-minded nerd scientist (now considered to be a much more positive collection of traits than in the past, because money).  I propose that one reason for the uptick in autism is the switch in the thinking of what intelligence is (via selective breeding).  Intelligence was once primarily measured by ones vocabulary (and showing off ones vocabulary via talking in social situations).  Now intelligence is measured primarily by IQ (no need to talk to anyone, and there is a lot less focus on social skills).  Not that this is right or correct, it just is.  I know several folks with autism and two are quite successful engineers that earn copious amounts of money.  Autism folks earning this kind of money would have been LESS possible in the past as computers DRIMATICALLY changed how useful (in demand) people with autism are.  So once folks with autism were once less useful because of the circumstances.  The most "correct" answer changed.  The most "correct" answer often changes.

Basically the Army is largely/wholly responsible for IQ being a thing.  The US Army is also largely responsible for computers, the internet, and the demand for engineers and computer programmers.  I think that the US Army triggered Autism's rise.  Also perhaps IQ being more important than talking (in measuring intelligence) sparked the breakdown in polite political debate in the US (enough talking, we will use <our> logic!).  All caused by WWII.

I have Autism.  When I am frustrated I can sometimes become loud.  I am not angry.  People tend to have a distinct confusion between the two.

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## FinnLassie

I'm on the autism spectrum, and I sometimes have issues controlling my tone of voice as well as volume. Sometimes I'm like a tiny squeaky mouse, but another day I'M THE LOUDEST PERSON ON CAMPUS. I'm just completely unaware of my volume most of the time, and my tone of voice might be completely wrong, because I mix up what is appropriate for what social interaction. However, *Solamnicknight*, I can relate to you, as I get anxiety easily. Sometimes my own actions scare me. And when someone gets mad at me or raises their voice suddenly, I go into an anxiety filled spiral. It makes me very scared, I suppose? In general, I'm nowadays able to tell people when I get a little scared of them or don't understand what they mean, but there's still folk that I'm too scared to confront.

This probably wasn't advice, but I just want you to know you're not alone.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I'd say it sounds like you both just have different ideas of how much space should exist in a relationship. She's okay with spending that amount of time with you that frequently, seems like you ain't. Putting emotional distance is just a recipe for making yourself more unhappy (and basically putting yourself on the track to a breakup without committing to it), but I also wouldn't make it a 'confrontation' about her roommate. It's probably time to talk to her about what you both want/need out of a relationship and whether your respective wants/needs align. Doesn't have to be confrontational or about anybody but you and her, but if it's really messing with you that much, the best thing you can do is just talk to her about it.


I did, last time we saw each other. A few days before I got told that the 1/month I see her now was too much for her roommate, and she felt like she was having to choose.

I'm feeling a lot better about it now actually. I realized during a phone call that she is afraid telling me no will lead to us breaking up (see abandonment issues above), so when I float spending more time together or any sort of commitment she says yes and then becomes dodgy about particulars.

----------


## Solamnicknight

> I'm on the autism spectrum, and I sometimes have issues controlling my tone of voice as well as volume. Sometimes I'm like a tiny squeaky mouse, but another day I'M THE LOUDEST PERSON ON CAMPUS. I'm just completely unaware of my volume most of the time, and my tone of voice might be completely wrong, because I mix up what is appropriate for what social interaction. However, *Solamnicknight*, I can relate to you, as I get anxiety easily. Sometimes my own actions scare me. And when someone gets mad at me or raises their voice suddenly, I go into an anxiety filled spiral. It makes me very scared, I suppose? In general, I'm nowadays able to tell people when I get a little scared of them or don't understand what they mean, but there's still folk that I'm too scared to confront.
> 
> This probably wasn't advice, but I just want you to know you're not alone.


Thank you, I talked to him. Though what you said might be helpful as well, I think I might want to mention how him getting angry and raising his voice is problematic with my anxiety.

----------


## FinnLassie

> Thank you, I talked to him. Though what you said might be helpful as well, I think I might want to mention how him getting angry and raising his voice is problematic with my anxiety.


It's good to use neutral language when approaching the subject. Avoid blaming sentences, like "you're making me anxious", and instead say something along the lines of "when you raise your voice, I'm not quite sure what you mean. It makes me feel a bit anxious not knowing." Of course, I don't know exactly what makes your anxiety rise when someone raises their voice, but I'm sort of giving an example base on how I get anxiety when someone raises their voice: I'm not sure what they mean, and I'm scared that they're angry about something I might have done wrong. Try to think what exactly makes you have that feeling of anxiety. I find that when you figure out how your certain emotions are formed, it makes it a bit easier to express myself.

Personally, quite often I have to go through scenarios in my mind before I talk about something that bothers me, because I want to make sure that I'm not misunderstood. Of course, that happens, but that's a learning curve of its own, trying to accept that I can't do everything perfect.

----------


## Zhentarim

I have really bad brain fog most days that really hurts my productivity at work. Im trying to find the cause.

----------


## darkrose50

Gluten can mess with me for weeks (brain fog, and digestional issues).  I tested negative for Celiac disease with one test.  My idjit doctor was all like you can eat gluten . . . I cannot eat gluten and feel well.  Trust but verify, there are idjits everywhere.  I never took a different test I later learned about involving eating gluten, waiting, and then having a camera up the posterior in order to check for damage

Also red food coloring (often crushed bugs) makes me bounce off of the walls.

You may want to start a diet that slowly adds foods so you can figure out what is messing with you.

But mainly I would start with things that have been thrown into foods recently-ish . . . like the explosion of gluten in wheat (to make baking bread faster and more profitable), artificial stuff tossed into foods, and food colorings.

Perhaps start by eating what your grandmother (great-grandmother?) would recognize as food (that has not been messed with by a mad scientist).  

Eggs, eggs are my friend.  Perhaps they can be your friend as well.

----------


## ve4grm

> I have really bad brain fog most days that really hurts my productivity at work. Im trying to find the cause.


As darkrose 50 said, it could be diet if something has changed recently. While gluten and "chemicals" are the go-to boogeymen today, it might be anything, including a newly-developing allergy to something you were always able to eat before. A doctor could tell you more, if this is correct.

The more likely culprit these days is sleep. Make sure you're getting enough each night.

And of course there's mental health. Brain fog can be a symptom of anxiety and depression (plus others, I'd imagine), so if you've been experiencing those feeling outside of the brain fog I'd encourage you to see your doctor to discuss it.

----------


## Zhentarim

> As darkrose 50 said, it could be diet if something has changed recently. While gluten and "chemicals" are the go-to boogeymen today, it might be anything, including a newly-developing allergy to something you were always able to eat before. A doctor could tell you more, if this is correct.
> 
> The more likely culprit these days is sleep. Make sure you're getting enough each night.
> 
> And of course there's mental health. Brain fog can be a symptom of anxiety and depression (plus others, I'd imagine), so if you've been experiencing those feeling outside of the brain fog I'd encourage you to see your doctor to discuss it.


Ive had at least a little brain fog for 75% of my life, but its gotten far worse latelyregardless of if I get more or less sleep. Im about to start sleeping less and working more to try to pay off some debt I have.

I also have treatment-resistant dysthymia which I think causes my usual low level fog, but again, its been worse the last few months.

Ive tried pretty mych everything to treat my dysthymia, except I havent consistently exercised because Im prone to injuring myselfI have a tailbone injury so sit ups are out of the question, and running gives me shin splints. Swimming might be a good exercise if I didnt live in a small economically depressed town and had a place to swim. In my effort to build my income up enough to clear my debt (which eats up 1,000 a month and that I could pay off in less than two years if I work extra), I wont have time except after dark to excerise.

My plan when I get rid of the debt is to return to somewhat normal working hours and to focus just on getting healthy. I might still moonlight on weekends, but I know what Im about to do wont be sustainable with my mental healthbut it needs done.

----------


## Solamnicknight

> Ive had at least a little brain fog for 75% of my life, but its gotten far worse latelyregardless of if I get more or less sleep. Im about to start sleeping less and working more to try to pay off some debt I have.
> 
> I also have treatment-resistant dysthymia which I think causes my usual low level fog, but again, its been worse the last few months.
> 
> Ive tried pretty mych everything to treat my dysthymia, except I havent consistently exercised because Im prone to injuring myselfI have a tailbone injury so sit ups are out of the question, and running gives me shin splints. Swimming might be a good exercise if I didnt live in a small economically depressed town and had a place to swim. In my effort to build my income up enough to clear my debt (which eats up 1,000 a month and that I could pay off in less than two years if I work extra), I wont have time except after dark to excerise.
> 
> My plan when I get rid of the debt is to return to somewhat normal working hours and to focus just on getting healthy. I might still moonlight on weekends, but I know what Im about to do wont be sustainable with my mental healthbut it needs done.


Stress can be a big one. I went through a similar problem when I worked at a big box store and was taking full-time online courses. The stress gave me this constant low throbbing headache that made getting things done difficult. I also recommend doing healthy things to de-stress like reading a book a watching a tv series episode or playing a video game you really like thats fun and not depressing in content. Also if you watch tv or play a video game be careful of snacking unhealthily. Just doing something simple you enjoy can help relieve a lot of stress.

----------


## zlefin

re: zhentarim
are you able to handle milder exercise like walking/biking, or do those also aggravate the shin splints?
If nothing else you could probably use a small hand weight while watching tv.

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## Tvtyrant

Swimming shouldn't put much pressure on your shins, way less then other forms of cardio.

----------


## Comrade

I feel like I could benefit from seeing some manner of therapist. Or maybe 'need', I don't know, that seems like a strong word. This is a thought that has recurred to me from time to time over the last few months, generally followed in short order by 'too bad I don't have a job so I can't afford to even try therapy'. Unfortunately, the 'not trying therapy' strategy I've been taking thus far hasn't really been working out too hot, so it's the ol' catch-22.

I guess I've been hoping things would just kind of, I don't know, get better.

----------


## Florian

> I feel like I could benefit from seeing some manner of therapist. Or maybe 'need', I don't know, that seems like a strong word. This is a thought that has recurred to me from time to time over the last few months, generally followed in short order by 'too bad I don't have a job so I can't afford to even try therapy'. Unfortunately, the 'not trying therapy' strategy I've been taking thus far hasn't really been working out too hot, so it's the ol' catch-22.
> 
> I guess I've been hoping things would just kind of, I don't know, get better.


Mental health issues rarely get better on their own. Neither does cancer.

Question is more if you have some free source available to you, or if there are organizations / NGOs around that could offer you free sources for joining them.

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## darkrose50

I just heard a story about a study on NPR where they had two groups: (a) people who could eat any amount of preserved foods, and (b) people who could eat any amount of unpreserved foods.  The folks that ate preserved foods ate 20% more and gained something like 2 pounds over the month.  The folks who ate unpreserved foods lost something like 2 pounds in the month.

My go-to foods are:

Ensure's: Hungry or thirsty?  In a few seconds you won't be!
Almonds: Lots of protein.
Energy Bars: A quick meal.
Chocolate Bars: A quick bunch of calories.

I definitely need to start picking up some fruit (or other non-preserved foods) on the way to work or at lunch.  Those preserved foods mess with you somehow.  I remember hearing a story about taste fatigue, and how Doritos are designed to not trigger this, so you eat more.

Apparently I should weigh ~149 - 183.  I am ~5'10", I have a big frame, and when I was in the best shape of my adult life I weighed ~190-200 pounds (age 19 and lots of physical labor).  I think that I would look sickly at 150-183.  When I am closer to 205-215 I feel a lot better, then when I am closer to 240-250.  I try to keep to around 205-215.

The scale ran out of batteries, and I needed some dental work done (I had a horrible dentist, but the new one seems to be some sort of space wizard).  I was eating a lot more chocolate bars then almonds and packed on the pounds.  I felt really bad.  Loosing the weight really seems to have helped.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I feel like I could benefit from seeing some manner of therapist. Or maybe 'need', I don't know, that seems like a strong word. This is a thought that has recurred to me from time to time over the last few months, generally followed in short order by 'too bad I don't have a job so I can't afford to even try therapy'. Unfortunately, the 'not trying therapy' strategy I've been taking thus far hasn't really been working out too hot, so it's the ol' catch-22.
> 
> I guess I've been hoping things would just kind of, I don't know, get better.


See if a local university will give you free sessions with a student? I know Chiropractor students have to provide 400 free hours to get their certifications, I don't know if the same is true with the psych community.




> I just heard a story about a study on NPR where they had two groups: (a) people who could eat any amount of preserved foods, and (b) people who could eat any amount of unpreserved foods.  The folks that ate preserved foods ate 20% more and gained something like 2 pounds over the month.  The folks who ate unpreserved foods lost something like 2 pounds in the month.
> 
> My go-to foods are:
> 
> Ensure's: Hungry or thirsty?  In a few seconds you won't be!
> Almonds: Lots of protein.
> Energy Bars: A quick meal.
> Chocolate Bars: A quick bunch of calories.
> 
> ...


Natural food tends to have less caloric density and have a higher satiation amount, which helps to make you fuller for less calories. Drinking calories is how doctors get individual's weights up, which makes shakes suspect as a weight loss device in my mind. Energy bars fall into that area as well, that is why you take them hiking :)

Nuts are actually quite high calories, I have stagnated my weight loss before by overeating them. They are very healthy for heart reasons, just saying they tend to not fill you up and have calories. Taking the time to actually make food tends to be the best way to lose weight, the Mediterranean diet is successful in large part because it takes a lot of preparation and has high satiation points.

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## tyckspoon

> See if a local university will give you free sessions with a student? I know Chiropractor students have to provide 400 free hours to get their certifications, I don't know if the same is true with the psych community.


Many of them do, yeah - a lot of licensed professions require practice hours to qualify, so cheap/free service from people doing their practical study portion can be found if you know where. One of the main downsides (aside from the bit about getting your medical care from somebody who, by definition, doesn't have a lot of experience) is you don't often get continuity of care. When your student-practitioner finishes their semester or two of practice hours they move on, and if you still need care at that point you get to start again with a new student.

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## Florian

> Many of them do, yeah - a lot of licensed professions require practice hours to qualify, so cheap/free service from people doing their practical study portion can be found if you know where. One of the main downsides (aside from the bit about getting your medical care from somebody who, by definition, doesn't have a lot of experience) is you don't often get continuity of care. When your student-practitioner finishes their semester or two of practice hours they move on, and if you still need care at that point you get to start again with a new student.


Where I am, you just can't call yourself a therapist or something without serious training and you cannot get into serious training without prior job experience.

When I had a serious case of depression, I opted for one of the training centers for therapists and the woman that had to work with me had a serious background in social work and drug treatment, while I knew that there was a supervisor in place to handle her performance.

Now I was confident with the setup, as Cordula, a former friend of mine, progressed along the same route and I knew what I was getting into.

----------


## Comrade

I don't think there are places around here that offer free counseling. I've found a group that has grad students serving as interns who do sessions supervised by licensed professionals-- they charge on a sliding scale based on income, and I don't know if that sliding scale slides all the way down to 'has no income'. I'll give them a call though. Don't mind trying to scrape together at least a little money one way or another if it means resolving this spell of recurring unhappiness.

----------


## darkrose50

> See if a local university will give you free sessions with a student? I know Chiropractor students have to provide 400 free hours to get their certifications, I don't know if the same is true with the psych community.
> 
> 
> 
> Natural food tends to have less caloric density and have a higher satiation amount, which helps to make you fuller for less calories. Drinking calories is how doctors get individual's weights up, which makes shakes suspect as a weight loss device in my mind. Energy bars fall into that area as well, that is why you take them hiking :)
> 
> Nuts are actually quite high calories, I have stagnated my weight loss before by overeating them. They are very healthy for heart reasons, just saying they tend to not fill you up and have calories. Taking the time to actually make food tends to be the best way to lose weight, the Mediterranean diet is successful in large part because it takes a lot of preparation and has high satiation points.



[1] High caloric foods often help me eat less.  High caloric foods that are quick, easy, and do not spoil are preferred to stock up and keep in my desk at work. 
[2] Sometimes I forget to eat.
[3] Sometimes I am not sure if I am hungry or thirsty.
[4] Milk is my go-to lazy meal that checks off hunger and thirst.  I think that I often overdue it and drink copious amounts of milk.
[5] Sugary things go quite well with milk, and sometimes I overdue eating sugary things when I drink milk.  Eating sugary things also causes me to drink more milk.
[6] Ensure fills the above role of milk (fast, checks off hunger and thirst), but does not trigger my desire to eat surgery things.  I go from hungry/thirsty to not in seconds.  I am often amazed at this.  It is helpful when I forget to eat/drink and might overeat otherwise.  This is a very convenient late night snack if I forgot to eat dinner or whatnot.  Ensures are also really useful when it is busy at work.

The last few months I have been eating a 1-2 yogurts and 0-2 ensures, and a few handfuls of almonds throughout the day (this covers breakfast and lunch).  I then eat a food bar in the car on the way home as a snack (sometimes on the way to work as well), and drink over a pint of water.  I seem to have lost quite a bit, and it has been somewhat effortless.

The last few weeks I switched to a pint of blueberries, a few handfuls of almonds throughout the day, and a food bar in the car on the way home.  I am enjoying the fresh fruit thing.  I hope I can find it in me to switch to rotate though different fruit, but blueberries are just too convenient (wash them, put them in a pint-sized paper coffee cup, and "drink" them thought-out the day).




> I don't think there are places around here that offer free counseling. I've found a group that has grad students serving as interns who do sessions supervised by licensed professionals-- they charge on a sliding scale based on income, and I don't know if that sliding scale slides all the way down to 'has no income'. I'll give them a call though. Don't mind trying to scrape together at least a little money one way or another if it means resolving this spell of recurring unhappiness.


Often the goal of therapy is to change the way that you think about things.  I am betting that a good therapist is definitely the best way to go.  

Religious indoctrination or simply talking to a priest or whatnot can be beneficial.  Self-help books can help some people.  I for one would study the ways of Fred Rogers . . . that man was amazing.  I think that the country would benefit tremendously from someone like Fred Rogers right now.

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## Archpaladin Zousha

I've been emotionally grappling with a bit of a thorny set of thoughts, but I'm not sure who I could really speak to about it.  In my immediate circle, I feel like if I explained the context, it'd either sound extremely petty or frivolous, or my thought process to get to it is kind of weird.  It is related to gaming, but it touches on topics not appropriate for this place, namely along political lines.

----------


## The Jack

So I'm in Bradford, UK. I don't live here permanently, I am registered to a dentist in the south and I'm moving back to sweden halfway through next month. 

I need a temp filling replaced with a permanent one. How can I do that quick and affordable? If I look at the NHS site, nobody's advertising new NHS patients. For private care, one quoted me at something like 110/120 pounds, which is only twice what the NHS would ask for, which sounded not entirely unreasonable, but when I called them back they told me the books were full and they'd need new books/there were new dentists and I should call back next friday . Another told me they'd charge me 40 just to have a look at me and wouldn't estimate how much the filling'd cost, so I suspect a trap... 

The bureaucracy of these places seems a bit screwy. When I ask them if they do NHS treatment, the one place that did said they do and wouldn't take me, even though I'm asking for a one off. Like, I can't imagine they're all booked all the time when they've got a cap on their allotted patients. 

Private dentistry here is probably cheaper than what I can get in Sweden, if the 110 price holds up. 

How can I get treatment (without breaking the bank)
It's a rearmost upper tooth.

----------


## Tvtyrant

I'm going to kvetch for a bit.

I'm pretty deep down the depression hole right now. I have been on a diet for years, so I can't eat my anxiety like I used to. My car accident back in January makes it difficult to use exercise as a crutch, and my girlfriend and I no longer spend much time together. As all of my anxiety outlets dry up, I am finding the lifelong depression and anxiety issues I have been dealing with rising to the front.

Interestingly I did not realize I was using my girlfriend as a release outlet until today when I was wondering why I am so despondent. 

I have been trying to work on this masters thesis for years, my imposed deadline is July 1st when I get kicked out and will need go get a full time job. Paper writing gives me tremendous anxiety, to the point where I used to do some self-mutilation as a teen and young adult and have panic attacks.

That is also why my post count is up, I tend to flick through the forums between paragraphs. Helps me cool down a bit. 

Currently I'm finding myself drifting towards ye olde running away or jumping off a bridge fantasies. One more month and then I am done either way though, going to be fun.

----------


## Mith

> I'm going to kvetch for a bit.
> 
> I'm pretty deep down the depression hole right now. I have been on a diet for years, so I can't eat my anxiety like I used to. My car accident back in January makes it difficult to use exercise as a crutch, and my girlfriend and I no longer spend much time together. As all of my anxiety outlets dry up, I am finding the lifelong depression and anxiety issues I have been dealing with rising to the front.
> 
> Interestingly I did not realize I was using my girlfriend as a release outlet until today when I was wondering why I am so despondent. 
> 
> I have been trying to work on this masters thesis for years, my imposed deadline is July 1st when I get kicked out and will need go get a full time job. Paper writing gives me tremendous anxiety, to the point where I used to do some self-mutilation as a teen and young adult and have panic attacks.
> 
> That is also why my post count is up, I tend to flick through the forums between paragraphs. Helps me cool down a bit. 
> ...


A thought I have for you and your girlfriend, if timing/balancing obligations is an issue: letter writing.

To me, the advantage of sitting down and writing a letter is that it is a physical representation of committing your time to the letter recipient.  At least for me, it works on a much better level than IM or email, which are quick communication styles that do not carry the same weight.  You could write a letter as a break from your thesis to try and resolve these stresses in your life.

It may not work for the two of you, but I know that it helped me to write and receive letters, especially in my downward spiral these past few months.

Good Luck!

-Mith

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## 2D8HP

A bit of career advice please.

My work is mostly repairing plumbing fixtures at two city buildings, that have cops, courts, DA's, and a jail on the 7th floor of one building (there used to also be the morgue, but they moved across town and now I only go there about twice a year).

Lately I just haven't gotten many service orders about stuff to fix that isn't in the jail, and after seven years of working in it I'm finding it psychologically harder to will myself up there with the screaming, the insults, the look of the place, and just waiting for the gates to open.

When there's lots of work 'downstairs' this isn't as much of problem, but now that the percentage of my work that is for the jail is much higher getting the willpower to go up there is increasingly difficult for me.

Any motivational tips (other than the obvious "do the job or get fired")?

----------


## Mith

> A bit of career advice please.
> 
> My work is mostly repairing plumbing fixtures at two city buildings, that have cops, courts, DA's, and a jail on the 7th floor of one building (there used to also be the morgue, but they moved across town and now I only go there about twice a year).
> 
> Lately I just haven't gotten many service orders about stuff to fix that isn't in the jail, and after seven years of working in it I'm finding it psychologically harder to will myself up there with the screaming, the insults, the look of the place, and just waiting for the gates to open.
> 
> When there's lots of work 'downstairs' this isn't as much of problem, but now that the percentage of my work that is for the jail is much higher getting the willpower to go up there is increasingly difficult for me.
> 
> Any motivational tips (other than the obvious "do the job or get fired")?


What is the size of your department?  Could you talk with your foreman about rearranging service orders so that you do more work outside the jail?

This doesn't really help if your management is one of those helpful "just do the job" people, or if the issue is that jail-work is just that much of the current service order volume.

And if you are unionised, seniority may or may not have your back here (I don't know your seniority or workplace culture).

----------


## 2D8HP

> What is the size of your department?



There's two plumbers: one for the "civIC center campus", and one (me) for the "public*safety campus".




> Could you talk with your foreman about rearranging service orders so that you do more work outside the jail?



Not really, what's officially reported broken is what needs fixing. 




> This doesn't really help if your management is one of those helpful "just do the job" people, or if the issue is that jail-work is just that much of the current service order volume.



The jail is 9/10th of the Service Orders.




> And if you are unionised, seniority may or may not have your back here (I don't know your seniority or workplace culture).



I'm senior enough with the City that I could transfer to another department; but then I'd be on probation again for a year, which makes my getting fired of layer off easier.

My big advantage where I'm at is no one with the City knows how best to repsir the jail plumbing fixtures here as well as I do, as often shown by my substitutes (before a decade ago city plumbers were rotated more so more plumbers had more time to have some base of experience, but a division of departments ended that), so I'm perceived as more needed here making my job more  secure than elsewhere, plus my skills in doing plumbing work anywhere else have atrophied, which combined with my age makes getting up to speed and staying employed likely harder.

This morning I did get a Service Order to do a repair downstairs from the jail, which I was glad for, but I received a lesson to be careful for what I wish for as squeezing myself into where I needed to be to do the repair was painful (ironically I usually work in less confined spaces inside the jail), and I've been sore most of the day.

Anyway, thanks @Mith for your kind questions.

----------


## WarKitty

Some of you might recall my rants about prior psychologist that was absolutely an abusive jerk while calling it treatment.  But this'll make sense even if you don't.

People have asked, why did he decide to just target me?  And I was thinking, and realized - he didn't target just me.

Every student I knew who had interacted with him hated him, and I know of multiple cases not involving me at all involving blatantly unprofessional and frankly bigoted behavior.  I also know that other students specifically said I should be quiet about sexual assault because of him, and said it in a way that such was expected behavior for him.

This wasn't a one-off where an otherwise decent mental health professional got it totally wrong.  This was a case of entrenched mistreatment of students with various disabilities or mental health issues.  Likely with the goal of preventing liability to the school.  There was a definite sense that he was being gracious to even allow us to attend college with "normal" students, and it was absolutely unconscionable that said normal students might see something they would find upsetting or disturbing.  (This did not just include mental health - it came up in reference to a friend with a seizure disorder, and his complaint that she wasn't considering how upsetting that was to other students to witness.)

There was never any consequences to him.  There was never even any record.  Anyone complaining was dismissed because they were just crazy kids and therefore unreliable, and he was the professional.  He must have done the right thing.

Like I said, this wasn't a one-off.  This was a system set up to allow an abuser free rein and protect him from consequences.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Some of you might recall my rants about prior psychologist that was absolutely an abusive jerk while calling it treatment.  But this'll make sense even if you don't.
> 
> People have asked, why did he decide to just target me?  And I was thinking, and realized - he didn't target just me.
> 
> Every student I knew who had interacted with him hated him, and I know of multiple cases not involving me at all involving blatantly unprofessional and frankly bigoted behavior.  I also know that other students specifically said I should be quiet about sexual assault because of him, and said it in a way that such was expected behavior for him.
> 
> This wasn't a one-off where an otherwise decent mental health professional got it totally wrong.  This was a case of entrenched mistreatment of students with various disabilities or mental health issues.  Likely with the goal of preventing liability to the school.  There was a definite sense that he was being gracious to even allow us to attend college with "normal" students, and it was absolutely unconscionable that said normal students might see something they would find upsetting or disturbing.  (This did not just include mental health - it came up in reference to a friend with a seizure disorder, and his complaint that she wasn't considering how upsetting that was to other students to witness.)
> 
> There was never any consequences to him.  There was never even any record.  Anyone complaining was dismissed because they were just crazy kids and therefore unreliable, and he was the professional.  He must have done the right thing.
> ...


Psychologist are arrogant jerks. I have one for a short time and he didn't seem to care.  :Mad:

----------


## ve4grm

> Psychologist are arrogant jerks. I have one for a short time and he didn't seem to care.


I mean, not explicitly more than anyone else is an arrogant jerk. But those that are definitely are in the position to empower their arrogant jerk-ness.




> Some of you might recall my rants about prior psychologist that was absolutely an abusive jerk while calling it treatment.  But this'll make sense even if you don't.
> 
> People have asked, why did he decide to just target me?  And I was thinking, and realized - he didn't target just me.
> 
> Every student I knew who had interacted with him hated him, and I know of multiple cases not involving me at all involving blatantly unprofessional and frankly bigoted behavior.  I also know that other students specifically said I should be quiet about sexual assault because of him, and said it in a way that such was expected behavior for him.
> 
> This wasn't a one-off where an otherwise decent mental health professional got it totally wrong.  This was a case of entrenched mistreatment of students with various disabilities or mental health issues.  Likely with the goal of preventing liability to the school.  There was a definite sense that he was being gracious to even allow us to attend college with "normal" students, and it was absolutely unconscionable that said normal students might see something they would find upsetting or disturbing.  (This did not just include mental health - it came up in reference to a friend with a seizure disorder, and his complaint that she wasn't considering how upsetting that was to other students to witness.)
> 
> There was never any consequences to him.  There was never even any record.  Anyone complaining was dismissed because they were just crazy kids and therefore unreliable, and he was the professional.  He must have done the right thing.
> ...


Damn, that's awful! But also lends some additional context to what you experienced, so it makes a lot of sense. The guy was simply an outright jerk!

I'm sure I've said it before, but I'm so sorry you had to go through that with someone who clearly didn't care. Obviously there are practitioners out there who do care and are good at what they do, but they take effort to find and an experience like this can understandably sour you on the process.

All the best in any further steps you take! And props for what you've been able to achieve thus far!

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I mean, not explicitly more than anyone else is an arrogant jerk. But those that are definitely are in the position to empower their arrogant jerk-ness.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, that's awful! But also lends some additional context to what you experienced, so it makes a lot of sense. The guy was simply an outright jerk!
> 
> I'm sure I've said it before, but I'm so sorry you had to go through that with someone who clearly didn't care. Obviously, there are practitioners out there who do care and are good at what they do, but they take effort to find and an experience like this can understandably sour you on the process.
> 
> All the best in any further steps you take! And props for what you've been able to achieve thus far!


Some psychologist are jerks. I didn't mean that as a whole.

----------


## JNAProductions

I feel really lonely. I don't know what else to put-I know it sounds kinda stupid, given what 2d8 and Warkitty are dealing with (which, by the way, you have my sympathy for), but I just feel like crap because I'm lonely.

----------


## WarKitty

> I mean, not explicitly more than anyone else is an arrogant jerk. But those that are definitely are in the position to empower their arrogant jerk-ness.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, that's awful! But also lends some additional context to what you experienced, so it makes a lot of sense. The guy was simply an outright jerk!
> 
> I'm sure I've said it before, but I'm so sorry you had to go through that with someone who clearly didn't care. Obviously there are practitioners out there who do care and are good at what they do, but they take effort to find and an experience like this can understandably sour you on the process.
> 
> All the best in any further steps you take! And props for what you've been able to achieve thus far!


I definitely think part of what made it so bad is that - not just that he was an outright jerk, but that because of his credentials he was able to position things so that he was supported in it.  Basically making it out so anyone who complained about his behavior just was too sick to recognize what they needed.  So he could continue to be a jerk in a system that would quite literally feed him victims and praise him for hurting them.

This is a true, genuine traumatic memory.  I mean that in the quite technical sense, regarding mental health.  Some of my problem is I have found many practitioners either are skeptical when someone accuses another professional, or want to downplay it or brush it off as someone I didn't get along with.

A lot of the problem though has to do with how traumatic memories work.  Basically your brain sort of shuts down when the memory is triggered (there's a lot more to it than that, but it'll do).  The normal procedure in therapy is to get someone to a point where they feel safe in therapy, then approach the memory slowly and in measured doses.  That procedure does not work when the therapeutic environment is inherently and unavoidably triggering.  Which means I'm essentially getting into a situation where the treatments that are supposed to be used don't work, and no one really has another idea.

From my perspective it's often come across as "you need therapy in order to be able to benefit from therapy."  I find that I'm often being told I'm being difficult or not trying or am not ready to get better.  Or that I'm "not ready for therapy."  My impression has been that there's very little understanding and acceptance within the mental health community of the idea that someone might be genuinely traumatized by the behavior of a treating practitioner.  So reactions that in another situation might be recognized as a fairly standard trauma reaction get labelled as resistance.  Not even necessarily because the person I'm seeing doesn't believe it, but because it changes how things go in ways that don't fit with the models recommended.

----------


## Zhentarim

I have very slow processing speed and it causes me major problems in every aspect of my life.




> re: zhentarim
> are you able to handle milder exercise like walking/biking, or do those also aggravate the shin splints?
> If nothing else you could probably use a small hand weight while watching tv.


Walking isnt nearly as bad as running, but it still hurts my joints a little. I dont have a bike.

----------


## ve4grm

> I feel really lonely. I don't know what else to put-I know it sounds kinda stupid, given what 2d8 and Warkitty are dealing with (which, by the way, you have my sympathy for), but I just feel like crap because I'm lonely.


Hey dude, your problems are valid! And I know the others would agree, even if they're going through worse things. If we always judge how we should be feeling based on who has it worse, nobody would ever be allowed to be unhappy.

So yeah, it may not be a major problem in the grand scheme of things, but loneliness that makes you feel like crap is still a valid difficulty. If you want to elaborate, please feel free. Otherwise, just know that some of us have been there too, and it can get better.




> I definitely think part of what made it so bad is that - not just that he was an outright jerk, but that because of his credentials he was able to position things so that he was supported in it.  Basically making it out so anyone who complained about his behavior just was too sick to recognize what they needed.  So he could continue to be a jerk in a system that would quite literally feed him victims and praise him for hurting them.
> 
> This is a true, genuine traumatic memory.  I mean that in the quite technical sense, regarding mental health.  Some of my problem is I have found many practitioners either are skeptical when someone accuses another professional, or want to downplay it or brush it off as someone I didn't get along with.
> 
> A lot of the problem though has to do with how traumatic memories work.  Basically your brain sort of shuts down when the memory is triggered (there's a lot more to it than that, but it'll do).  The normal procedure in therapy is to get someone to a point where they feel safe in therapy, then approach the memory slowly and in measured doses.  That procedure does not work when the therapeutic environment is inherently and unavoidably triggering.  Which means I'm essentially getting into a situation where the treatments that are supposed to be used don't work, and no one really has another idea.
> 
> From my perspective it's often come across as "you need therapy in order to be able to benefit from therapy."  I find that I'm often being told I'm being difficult or not trying or am not ready to get better.  Or that I'm "not ready for therapy."  My impression has been that there's very little understanding and acceptance within the mental health community of the idea that someone might be genuinely traumatized by the behavior of a treating practitioner.  So reactions that in another situation might be recognized as a fairly standard trauma reaction get labelled as resistance.  Not even necessarily because the person I'm seeing doesn't believe it, but because it changes how things go in ways that don't fit with the models recommended.


Yeah, trauma sucks, and can be hard to get past. I do hope that you're able to find ways (whether it's here, or with others) to address and hopefully move past this trauma, whether or not you ever attend another therapy session.

I'm actually curious if a different sort of therapy setting could be more helpful with this? For example, if what you did was one-on-one, maybe trying a group session? No idea if it would work, and no pressure to try it of course.

----------


## WarKitty

> Yeah, trauma sucks, and can be hard to get past. I do hope that you're able to find ways (whether it's here, or with others) to address and hopefully move past this trauma, whether or not you ever attend another therapy session.
> 
> I'm actually curious if a different sort of therapy setting could be more helpful with this? For example, if what you did was one-on-one, maybe trying a group session? No idea if it would work, and no pressure to try it of course.


Group sessions tend to not work well, because people aren't generally comfortable treating this sort of thing as a valid trigger.  So I tend to end up in situations where I just get it set off repeatedly.  Because people tend in general to think that pushing therapy is good and harmless, even if I say it is a trigger for me.


 And the fundamental trigger for me is the power imbalance.  The situation where the professional could say that I said or did anything and be treated as reliable.  Whereas me trying to defend or protect myself is taken as a sign that I'm clearly too sick and need to be forced back to treatment (with the same person causing the problem).

And I don't trust all the reports that say this doesn't happen or isn't common.  Because as far as any official statistics go, what happened to me and other students didn't happen.  And people who tell me that there's nothing to worry about tend to turn around and say I must be wrong about what I remember happening.

----------


## ve4grm

> Group sessions tend to not work well, because people aren't generally comfortable treating this sort of thing as a valid trigger.  So I tend to end up in situations where I just get it set off repeatedly.  Because people tend in general to think that pushing therapy is good and harmless, even if I say it is a trigger for me.


Fair enough. I wasn't sure if having others around might defuse the power dynamic a bit. If not, that's understandable.




> And the fundamental trigger for me is the power imbalance.  The situation where the professional could say that I said or did anything and be treated as reliable.  Whereas me trying to defend or protect myself is taken as a sign that I'm clearly too sick and need to be forced back to treatment (with the same person causing the problem).
> 
> And I don't trust all the reports that say this doesn't happen or isn't common.  Because as far as any official statistics go, what happened to me and other students didn't happen.  And people who tell me that there's nothing to worry about tend to turn around and say I must be wrong about what I remember happening.


Yeah. Personally I know too many people who have been helped through therapy to assume that situations like yours are the norm, but I understand the fear, and I have no idea how common they might actually be.

I kind of wish there was a service people could go to/call where you could vent, and they'd try to help you with issues, but without any sort of medical authority over you. Maybe even something anonymous. Something like the various LGBT help lines that exist, but for general use. That might allow folks with trauma like you to be able to talk with someone without the trigger you have being set off. I don't know if such a thing exists, (one does here in Canada, but solely aimed at kids/teens) but it feels like it would be helpful for a lot of people.

----------


## WarKitty

Unfortunately, while some things like that do exist, they tend to mostly want to try to push people into therapy.  And with things like this simple venting isn't that useful.

I wouldn't say situations like mine are the norm.  But I would say something can be common enough to be a concern without being the norm.  But talking about it often feels like it's not ok to be critical of the mental health system at all.  Or that if you are it means you think all treatment is bad.  That last one drives me up a wall.

I think there's a lot of people who do get helped.  But I also think the system is set up in a way that tends to enable abusive people who know how to work the system.  Mental health is an easy way to discredit someone and to make it ok to others to override the person's choices.

----------


## Anymage

> I think there's a lot of people who do get helped.  But I also think the system is set up in a way that tends to enable abusive people who know how to work the system.  Mental health is an easy way to discredit someone and to make it ok to others to override the person's choices.


Small but important quibble:  what actually happens is that when someone else is cutting the checks for the therapists, their interests and yours can diverge.  This is something that gets seen an unfortunate amount at institutions.  Outside those situations, the fact that you can fire your therapist means that they're a lot more conscious of your needs.

I do agree that therapy is bandied about as a cure-all, often in the sense of just trying to get people to stop feeling emotions that others find uncomfortable.  And while I'm sure that there are discussions going on somewhere about people who have had triggeringly bad experiences in therapeutic contexts and how to help them, I wouldn't know where to find them.

----------


## WarKitty

> Small but important quibble:  what actually happens is that when someone else is cutting the checks for the therapists, their interests and yours can diverge.  This is something that gets seen an unfortunate amount at institutions.  Outside those situations, the fact that you can fire your therapist means that they're a lot more conscious of your needs.


Somewhat true.  There was definitely a conflict of interest there.  Although given what was going on, I think even outside of an institution I would have been afraid to fire him.  I don't want to go into it too much, but I felt that the threat of forced hospitalization based on issues that I wasn't actually having was definitely there.  The implicit threat was that I'd be considered a potential school shooter - even though I had made no threats and would never have hurt anyone.  Unless "being depressed and wearing a lot of black" is a potential school shooter, or using everyday phrases (think "I'm going to kill that kid if he wanders off early and leaves the rest of us to handle his stuff again").

I have unfortunately experienced more minor stuff outside of institutions as well.  Nothing as terrifying.  I did have a guy try to diagnose me as borderline personality disorder while using the fact that I had a girlfriend in college as a major symptom.  And I've had one instance where me reporting back that I had stopped a particular antidepressant due to it triggering suicidal impulses was listed simply as me being noncompliant with prescribed meds.  Those do make me nervous, especially given medical records are a thing and they tend to be treated by future practitioners as basically true.  So having stuff like that in the record can make it very hard to access treatment.  I've already been subjected to the whole "oh it's just your mental illness" for stuff that very much turned out to be something physically wrong with me, too.




> I do agree that therapy is bandied about as a cure-all, often in the sense of just trying to get people to stop feeling emotions that others find uncomfortable.  And while I'm sure that there are discussions going on somewhere about people who have had triggeringly bad experiences in therapeutic contexts and how to help them, I wouldn't know where to find them.


That's a somewhat separate rant, admittedly.  I also think a lot of the problem is people tend to view "therapy" as sort of a monolithic block.  There's a reason, for example, that I went to a neurologist and not my family doctor for my migraines.  And there's a particular tendency to tie therapy to effort in a way that if therapy doesn't work for a particular person, it's because they're not doing therapy right.

I haven't found the discussions like that going on anywhere, honestly.  Maybe the occasional anecdote.  But I think it would need real, professional research, and it seems like the mental health community is just barely starting (in the last maybe 2 years) to acknowledge that some people can be harmed by therapy at all.  The idea of genuine trauma caused by treatment seems to be off the radar.

----------


## Chen

> I haven't found the discussions like that going on anywhere, honestly.  Maybe the occasional anecdote.  But I think it would need real, professional research, and it seems like the mental health community is just barely starting (in the last maybe 2 years) to acknowledge that some people can be harmed by therapy at all.  The idea of genuine trauma caused by treatment seems to be off the radar.


In terms of scholarly articles there are a fair number after even a cursory google scholar search looking at negative consequences from psychological therapy. How this translates down to individual practitioners probably depends on where they're located and the scrutiny they're under. Large organizations in urban centers (hospitals or the like) probably have more scrutiny that an individual private practice or similar type situation. Therapists at schools/businesses probably have significant less scrutiny as well since psychological therapy there is an ancillary service/benefit rather than a primary one like it is at hospitals or other health care organizations.

Clearly individual bad actors are also a problem as they would be in any profession particularly in cases where its simply one person's word against another's.

----------


## WarKitty

I'd be interested in seeing the timeline breakdown.  I have noticed that there's been a surge in research on negative therapeutic outcomes in the last few years - information that wasn't available when I started looking a decade ago and may not be on the radar of a lot of people currently practicing.  That said, the idea of genuine traumatic reactions to therapy is somewhat different than just a negative outcome, in terms of effects on future treatment.

There's definitely a reputation that schools, especially smaller schools, get the bottom of the barrel.  And that combines somewhat with the idea that "a therapist" can handle anything mental health.  Which can lead to its own problems if the therapist isn't actually qualified to handle a particular issue.

A lot of people suspect bad actors of a certain type are drawn to positions of power.  Mental health work being one of those.  Any case involving a serious power imbalance (including issues of social power difference) is going to be vulnerable to that.

I'd also just comment that being able to explain a traumatic memory clearly takes a lot of work.  That's part of my memories as well.  When you're in or just getting out of the situation, the memory itself is often too strong to just talk over.  But that takes away your credibility if you can't discuss an abuser's behavior calmly and rationally, even if that's the standard trauma reaction.

----------


## WarKitty

I will also say search engines are really, really annoying sometimes.  It's nearly impossible to search for research on therapy causing trauma.  Because searches work off of keywords and not natural language.

----------


## Mith

> I'd be interested in seeing the timeline breakdown.  I have noticed that there's been a surge in research on negative therapeutic outcomes in the last few years - information that wasn't available when I started looking a decade ago and may not be on the radar of a lot of people currently practicing.  That said, the idea of genuine traumatic reactions to therapy is somewhat different than just a negative outcome, in terms of effects on future treatment.
> 
> There's definitely a reputation that schools, especially smaller schools, get the bottom of the barrel.  And that combines somewhat with the idea that "a therapist" can handle anything mental health.  Which can lead to its own problems if the therapist isn't actually qualified to handle a particular issue.
> 
> A lot of people suspect bad actors of a certain type are drawn to positions of power.  Mental health work being one of those.  Any case involving a serious power imbalance (including issues of social power difference) is going to be vulnerable to that.
> 
> I'd also just comment that being able to explain a traumatic memory clearly takes a lot of work.  That's part of my memories as well.  When you're in or just getting out of the situation, the memory itself is often too strong to just talk over.  But that takes away your credibility if you can't discuss an abuser's behavior calmly and rationally, even if that's the standard trauma reaction.


As a member of a professional body, this lack of professional oversight is terrifying.  In Canada, the profession worked with government to develop a regulatory professional body precisely to deal with these issues.  They were thorough at it that in my province (Alberta), other professional regulatory body just refer to the Provincial Act that established the Engineering regulatory body instead of codifying separate acts for each profession.

----------


## WarKitty

> As a member of a professional body, this lack of professional oversight is terrifying.  In Canada, the profession worked with government to develop a regulatory professional body precisely to deal with these issues.  They were thorough at it that in my province (Alberta), other professional regulatory body just refer to the Provincial Act that established the Engineering regulatory body instead of codifying separate acts for each profession.


We have regulatory bodies here too.  The problem is when the victim isn't seen as credible enough in making a report.  This is going to be especially difficult when it comes to people with mental illness.  His explanation was that I had a disorder that was causing paranoia and that's why I was saying what I said.  And he was just trying to help a student who was too sick to realize she needed help and make sure no one was in danger.

Regulations don't help unless you have some underlying measure to ensure people who aren't typically seen as credible can have access to make complaints and have them be taken seriously.

----------


## Mith

> We have regulatory bodies here too.  The problem is when the victim isn't seen as credible enough in making a report.  This is going to be especially difficult when it comes to people with mental illness.  His explanation was that I had a disorder that was causing paranoia and that's why I was saying what I said.  And he was just trying to help a student who was too sick to realize she needed help and make sure no one was in danger.
> 
> Regulations don't help unless you have some underlying measure to ensure people who aren't typically seen as credible can have access to make complaints and have them be taken seriously.


I guess my perspective is that the concept of "getting an objective second opinion" should be easily done.  In the age of digital communication, I don't know why it cannot be possible to:

1) file a complaint with the relevant body

2) get an independent review from another specialist that can at least inform where there may be issues.

3) If there are signs of issues with the practitioner, call them in for a hearing.

I don't know if it is too risky to use a confidential clause and a recording device for such records that can be accessed as a "third party" to break the power imbalance of "professional vs. Client".

----------


## ve4grm

> I guess my perspective is that the concept of "getting an objective second opinion" should be easily done.  In the age of digital communication, I don't know why it cannot be possible to:
> 
> 1) file a complaint with the relevant body
> 
> 2) get an independent review from another specialist that can at least inform where there may be issues.
> 
> 3) If there are signs of issues with the practitioner, call them in for a hearing.
> 
> I don't know if it is too risky to use a confidential clause and a recording device for such records that can be accessed as a "third party" to break the power imbalance of "professional vs. Client".


(Note, I'm also a Canadian Engineer, so I get where you're coming from, but...)

Unfortunately, professional bodies, even here in Canada, have varying levels of effectiveness and oversight. I know a few people who have to report to their own professional associations, and those associations do almost nothing for them outside of being a name. Not professional practice insurance, not mediation, not anything useful.

In the US, the effectiveness of a body will highly depend on the individual state, as many aren't national, and how thorough the oversight is.

For WarKitty's specific situation, I'd also assume the incident was a number of years ago. There may be little that could happen at this point, anyways.

----------


## Mith

> (Note, I'm also a Canadian Engineer, so I get where you're coming from, but...)
> 
> Unfortunately, professional bodies, even here in Canada, have varying levels of effectiveness and oversight. I know a few people who have to report to their own professional associations, and those associations do almost nothing for them outside of being a name. Not professional practice insurance, not mediation, not anything useful.
> 
> In the US, the effectiveness of a body will highly depend on the individual state, as many aren't national, and how thorough the oversight is.
> 
> For WarKitty's specific situation, I'd also assume the incident was a number of years ago. There may be little that could happen at this point, anyways.


Clarification, I'm a grad student who returned to school due to lack of EIT positions not getting filled with people getting hired back from the initial mass lay-offs.

Meaning I'm still an idealist.  :Small Tongue: 

It's more the case that we know where we should be, and the lack of drive to _get_ there bothers me.

----------


## WarKitty

> I guess my perspective is that the concept of "getting an objective second opinion" should be easily done.  In the age of digital communication, I don't know why it cannot be possible to:
> 
> 1) file a complaint with the relevant body
> 
> 2) get an independent review from another specialist that can at least inform where there may be issues.
> 
> 3) If there are signs of issues with the practitioner, call them in for a hearing.
> 
> I don't know if it is too risky to use a confidential clause and a recording device for such records that can be accessed as a "third party" to break the power imbalance of "professional vs. Client".


A lot of the problem is ensuring an objective independent review.  It's a fairly common complaint that practitioners tend to be biased in favor of prior diagnosis.  And the nature of mental health treatment means they're already on the lookout for people who don't think anything's wrong or don't understand.  In fact that's one of the major worries a lot of people have about misdiagnosis, that further treating professionals tend to assume the diagnosis is correct, and symptoms are often vague enough that someone looking for confirmation can find it.  An independent review won't help if the reviewer is going in with the idea that it's probably nothing.

That's actually been part of my complaint - that when you see someone else and report an issue with another professional, the default assumption seems to be that there's something wrong with you that's making you say that.

----------


## Mith

> A lot of the problem is ensuring an objective independent review.  It's a fairly common complaint that practitioners tend to be biased in favor of prior diagnosis.  And the nature of mental health treatment means they're already on the lookout for people who don't think anything's wrong or don't understand.  In fact that's one of the major worries a lot of people have about misdiagnosis, that further treating professionals tend to assume the diagnosis is correct, and symptoms are often vague enough that someone looking for confirmation can find it.  An independent review won't help if the reviewer is going in with the idea that it's probably nothing.
> 
> That's actually been part of my complaint - that when you see someone else and report an issue with another professional, the default assumption seems to be that there's something wrong with you that's making you say that.


I know this is really stating the obvious, but that's not how peer-reviewed analysis work.  You really should start from scratch, with ideally the person managing the application for a second opinion filtering the application so that the previous diagnosis is not known, only the symptoms.

But professional elitism and complacency is really a difficult beast to combat, since you need to balance between confidence and over-confidence.

----------


## messy1349

When it rains, it pours.

Two years ago I had to deal with this. Fortunately, the worst seems to be over (and I had a release), but it's still a daily struggle.

Four months after that I hurt my abdomen doing sit-ups. It still hasn't healed and doctors are baffled.

One year ago I hurt my ankles by walking more than I was used to. They still haven't healed and doctors are baffled.

In November I had to deal with this.

Two weeks ago I woke up in the middle of the night with severe abdominal pain. A ct scan at the emergency room revealed that this pain had nothing to do with my prior injury, but was, in fact, mild pneumonia! Although the worst seems to be over, I still have a cough that my doctor says could last 6-8 weeks.

On Thursday I noticed some mysterious, small red spots on my calves.

When I got to work on Friday I had a pain in my knee that caused me to limp for a few minutes, after which it felt better. The same thing happened Saturday.

My financial life is, and has always been, a disaster.

Despite being a loving, loyal, listener, I've spent most of my life single.

On Friday I got a message from my (potentially dangerous) ex, after seven months of silence.

Later that day I began thinking about this.

I try to remind myself that there's always something to be thankful for, but I'm really, really frustrated.

Bleh.

----------


## WarKitty

One more thought on therapy, more musing than anything:

I've been told a lot things like "therapists aren't mindreaders" and "they can only work on what you bring to the session."  Which, I understand, but it also seems like it's putting a lot of work on the patient to basically be the expert?  Like I've definitely had cases where I was dealing with abuse, but to me what was happening was so normal that it wasn't worth bringing up in therapy.  I feel like what I actually needed from therapy was someone to say "hey this thing that you're used to seeing as normal is actually pretty out there and it's causing you a lot of problems."  But it was somehow my responsibility to bring it up, despite my having no reason at all to think I should.  And it was my fault if therapy didn't work because I didn't bring it up.

That's part of how I feel like "you need therapy to benefit from therapy" comes up as well.  Like I had to do all the work on my own of overcoming all the gaslighting and manipulation and being able to see and name what was going on.  And then once I do 90% of the work while therapy frankly actively impedes it by focusing on other things, then I'm considered "ready for therapy" and actually able to receive help without being blamed for not doing it right.

----------


## ve4grm

Yeah, you're responsible to bring them information, but THEY are responsible for drawing that information out of you and getting you to notice what's wrong so you can tell them about it. It's a very difficult situation for all involved, I'd imagine.

----------


## Jon_Dahl

Now that I have graduated, I have come to realize that I carry a deep grudge towards two of my professors. Not being able to process the negative feelings, I sent an angry e-mail to one of them a couple of days ago. I didn't hold anything back, because she had always been an arrogant ******* who had never paid any attention when I tried to tell her something. I was astonished when she replied (instead of just ignoring me) and she actually seemed sorry for the way that I felt and for the fact that I wasn't able see anything positive in the years that we spent together. Now I'm thinking that I should write something nice to her and try to reconcile, but I don't know what to say. Nevertheless, I am considering sending another angry e-mail to the other professor too, who was the ultimate ******* and quite the bully towards clueless freshmen such as me three years ago.

----------


## Comrade

Nope, that's a horrible idea that you 100% should not go through with.

----------


## WarKitty

> Yeah, you're responsible to bring them information, but THEY are responsible for drawing that information out of you and getting you to notice what's wrong so you can tell them about it. It's a very difficult situation for all involved, I'd imagine.


I think a lot of my frustration is with how different the approach has been.  Like, if I try a medication and it doesn't work, it's just treated as I had a bad reaction to that medication.  If I have a bad reaction to several medications in a row, then my psychiatrist will probably suggest we try a different class of meds.  But it's just how the particular issue I have is going.  And it's understandable that some medications might have really bad side effects and that might be a reason to be wary.

With therapy, I felt that it was very much different.  One, the possibility of negative outcomes was treated as almost non-existent.  The idea that it might be hard or you might feel bad for a while was there, but the idea of a genuine outcome where therapy makes things worse rather than better was not.  I very much felt that the attitude was that you should try therapy because it can only help.

Two, there's a definite attitude that if it didn't work after a few tries, it's because you are, so to speak, doing therapy wrong.  Framed in a way as though you were making a deliberate choice to not actually get better.  I've honestly run into this even from therapists pretty frequently, that if you don't respond in the way they were looking for they go straight to "you're not trying."  When in retrospect, I was trying, it's just that it wasn't getting the results the therapist wanted.  I've run into it more commonly from regular people though - that if after 2 or 3 therapists you aren't getting better, it's because you are choosing to not improve for some reason.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> Psychologist are arrogant jerks. I have one for a short time and he didn't seem to care.


I was going to argue this, but then I realized that my own experience kinda proves this to be true in most cases. If any therapists are reading this, I hope you're one of the good ones. If I'd listened to one of the crappier ones, I'd be dead. 2-3 is really not a good sample size from my experience.

And odd, idea, but if therapists aren't working out for you, maybe leave an honest, but bad review? Many have yelp pages or the like, so doing so is pretty easy. You'd be helping others make good decisions if they choose that route to find help.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I was going to argue this, but then I realized that my own experience kinda proves this to be true in most cases. If any therapists are reading this, I hope you're one of the good ones. If I'd listened to one of the crappier ones, I'd be dead. 2-3 is really not a good sample size from my experience.
> 
> And odd, idea, but if therapists aren't working out for you, maybe leave an honest, but bad review? Many have yelp pages or the like, so doing so is pretty easy. You'd be helping others make good decisions if they choose that route to find help.


Therapist are different than psychologists. The therapists that I go to seem to be more helpful and connected than psychologists.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> Therapist are different than psychologists. The therapists that I go to seem to be more helpful and connected than psychologists.


HOW DID YOU FIND NORMAL THERAPISTS? Render unto me your secrets.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> HOW DID YOU FIND NORMAL THERAPISTS? Render unto me your secrets.


Find the therapist who right for you. Talk about your problems and daily life. If he or she understand you and you have a connect then that therapist is for you. If not then dump him of her and find a better therapist. The therapist that I'm currently with I know her for more than a decade and I have a therapeutic connection with her.  :Smile:

----------


## Algeh

> HOW DID YOU FIND NORMAL THERAPISTS? Render unto me your secrets.


It's like dating, in that it's a lot of trial and error and takes a lot of bad connections to find a good one, but worse because you often have to "break up" for reasons that have nothing to do with the "relationship". 

I'm still resentful about an insurance change that happened when I was 13 that meant I could no longer see the therapist who I actually felt comfortable with (I couldn't keep seeing her private-pay because her whole office lost the contract with the insurance I was using and everyone lost their jobs - I have no idea where she ended up, and in the pre-mainstream-internet 90s it was not easy to find a specific person like this again even if they went into a private practice where I could have continued to see her). It took me until college to find one I was comfortable with again (after going through several in high school who were terrible fits), and since she was part of the college's health center I couldn't see her anymore after I graduated. I haven't found anyone I actually matched well with as an adult. (I really need someone who understands that being smart does not make me better at life, and does not give me speeches about how I have "so much potential" because I'm good at math/have a large vocabulary/test well/whatever. I know I'm smart, and that means there are certain kinds of problems I do not have. For example, I have never failed a standardized test required for placement or licensure, because standardized tests are my wheelhouse. It does not help me with the problems I actually have, because there are lots of problems where being smart does not help and some where it's an actual hindrance. )

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## Honest Tiefling

> It's like dating, in that it's a lot of trial and error and takes a lot of bad connections to find a good one, but worse because you often have to "break up" for reasons that have nothing to do with the "relationship".


Yeah, you're probably right.

I'm sorry to hear about your own struggles, and that your therapists have a knack for saying the wrong thing. I wish you luck in your own search.

----------


## FinnLassie

> Now that I have graduated, I have come to realize that I carry a deep grudge towards two of my professors. Not being able to process the negative feelings, I sent an angry e-mail to one of them a couple of days ago. I didn't hold anything back, because she had always been an arrogant ******* who had never paid any attention when I tried to tell her something. I was astonished when she replied (instead of just ignoring me) and she actually seemed sorry for the way that I felt and for the fact that I wasn't able see anything positive in the years that we spent together. Now I'm thinking that I should write something nice to her and try to reconcile, but I don't know what to say. Nevertheless, I am considering sending another angry e-mail to the other professor too, who was the ultimate ******* and quite the bully towards clueless freshmen such as me three years ago.


Bad idea, and the first angry email wasn't a smart move either in my opinion. Be *constructive*, not an angry mess. That time is gone now, you're an adult and should be able to communicate like one. The idea of sending an email explaining yourself, sure, but "not holding anything back" seems aggressive and unnecessary.

----------


## Celticbear

I'm trying to get past a relationship but it's hard. Neither of us want to really be together anymore, but we just persist. I don't know how to just permanently break it. There's really not much more to tell.

----------


## Zhentarim

> I'm trying to get past a relationship but it's hard. Neither of us want to really be together anymore, but we just persist. I don't know how to just permanently break it. There's really not much more to tell.


Any relationship is better than no relationship. Try couples counseling.

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## JNAProductions

> Any relationship is better than no relationship. Try couples counseling.


That is wrong.

While I can't speak for Celtic, if you're in an abusive relationship or anything like that, your best course of action is to GET THE HELL OUT OF IT. (Assuming you can do so safely, at least. But the threat of danger should you leave is a sign that you need to get out.) While I sincerely hope Celtic's relationship is nothing like that, if they aren't happy with their significant other, no relationship is indeed better than having one.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> Any relationship is better than no relationship. Try couples counseling.


Sweet eight pound six ounce baby Pelor, NO. I know JNAProductions already said it, but if it's abusive, get out. That applies to dudes as well.

But I assume that is NOT CelticBear's issue, so...Well, are you set on breaking the relationship? If it is what is needed, it should be done so the two of you can have time to process this and heal. Are you in a situation where you can physically remove yourself from a shared domicile? Visit a friend or family member? Heck, if work won't allow a vacation, volunteer for some extra work hours?

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## Tvtyrant

> I'm trying to get past a relationship but it's hard. Neither of us want to really be together anymore, but we just persist. I don't know how to just permanently break it. There's really not much more to tell.


Have you tried talking about it? "I don't feel like being in this relationship anymore and I think you feel the same way. How can we move forward?"

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## Honest Tiefling

Not a terribly serious problem, but one I wanted to get off my chest. While shopping with my parents earlier today, my mother ran into her friend...Who happily exclaimed that I hadn't changed physically since high school!

Problem is, I'm over thirty. I get that it is likely my fault as I refuse to give up my hoodies, but it's still a little weird to get mistaken for being so young.

----------


## Chen

> Who happily exclaimed that I hadn't changed psychically since high school


Well most people dont change psychically at all.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> Well most people dont change psychically at all.


Thanks for point out the error, but if you haven't changed psychically at all from high school, I'm a little worried.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Thanks for point out the error, but if you haven't changed psychically at all from high school, I'm a little worried.


I think most people at 30 would consider still looking 18 to be a good thing.

If you don't you may need to change your clothing style to something a little older. I have slowly traded t-shirts and basketball shorts for button ups, khakis and jackets because people respond better to them.

----------


## Comrade

Personally I'm pretty happy to have changed significantly both psychically _and_ physically since I was in high school.

----------


## Chen

> Thanks for point out the error, but if you haven't changed psychically at all from high school, I'm a little worried.


Psychologically sure. Psychically? Well I havent gaines any type of psychic powers or the like sincr high school.

Anyways it was just a tongue in cheek response anyways. And now more of language minutae so Ill stop.

----------


## WarKitty

> Not a terribly serious problem, but one I wanted to get off my chest. While shopping with my parents earlier today, my mother ran into her friend...Who happily exclaimed that I hadn't changed physically since high school!
> 
> Problem is, I'm over thirty. I get that it is likely my fault as I refuse to give up my hoodies, but it's still a little weird to get mistaken for being so young.


I'm apparently 31 going on 18, so I feel your pain.  I can't wear anything casual without people looking around for my parents.

----------


## Lissou

I've had a pretty bad week.

Some of you may remember that I was worrying about my cat's health. I went to the vet early in the week and she had a whole range of tests done, which cost us about  $400. At the time, it was a lot but not un-manageable, with some sacrifices done such as switching to cheaper brands and having less pre-prepared meals, the dip in our account would be gone within a few months.

The next day we got a call from the vet. Sadly Sissi has hyperthyroidism and possibly kidney failure and hypertension. The latter two will need to be checked again when her thyroid is under control. The doctor discussed treatment options, which fortunately are available to give her the best quality of life for her remaining years. Fortunately the medication isn't prohibitively expensive, just $20 a month, which is doable by working an extra hour every other week.
However she will need close monitoring and testing at the start, so that we can give her the right dose (and then additional monitoring twice a year in case we need to increase the dose). For the first couple of months, the doctor said she would need testing at least every other week, and that would cost $200 every time. That's $400+ a month for two months (on top of the already spent $400 for the first battery of test). Then fortunately it would go down to $400 a year for the testing (plus the medication), which is more doable.

This is a big hit for us. We started discussing ways of making it work, including a lot of sacrifices combined with using credit and then paying it off slowly over the next year while our expenses are lower. Not the most comfortable thing for us, but still doable and worth it if it helped with her health. She's been my cat since I was 19 and she means a lot to me. I wouldn't try to lengthen her life just for myself if it caused her pain, but alleviating her existing symptom while she is around is, to me, the least I could do.

But later this week my husband lost his job. It's complicated, but basically it's for health reasons, which really shouldn't be a thing, but apparently is here in the US. He had been working from home instead of in the office, so it's not like he wasn't working, but that wasn't enough, it seems.
He is the main breadwinner in our household and so we're both panicking right now. We already incurred expenses for Sissi and committed to more of them, and it was going to be hard while he had a regular income, but now it's overwhelming.
We have both applied to jobs, him as a replacement for the lost job, me as additional income as I only make minimum wage. Nothing yet, hopefully we will have answers next week and have a way to fall back on our feet.

This is the end of the month so we'll already go in the red just to pay our rent and bills, but we have a credit card each and they're not maxed, so if we do find sources of income in the near future we can pay them off, but if we don't, they can't cover a second month of rent, even if we only eat the food we already have at home (and we do have enough dried or canned good to last until next month at least). This is scary. Filing for unemployment is an option for him but it probably still wouldn't cover our rent (which is $2k a month. Portland is getting expensive, even if it's much cheaper than the Bay area was).

This is all very scary for the both of us, and stressful. My husband Sean doesn't deal very well with stress, and his usual coping mechanism of going on a spending spree or eating comfort (junk) food are both pretty much out for financial reasons so he's struggling. As am I.

Any advice is welcome, although I also appreciate any emotional support I can get.

Hugs to everyone who would like them.

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## Grytorm

First as an inadequate reply to Lissou. Do you guys have any family members who could help out? I dont know how practical that is for you but it sounds like every little bit would help. As for the cat, it might not help but maybe you could delay the testing a small amount and juggle the dates so you only have to pay for one set of tests this month? Or talk to your landlord maybe? It would be harder in larger complexes where he might not know you but at least it might be better if they knows there might be trouble paying on time. I really dont know about this kind of stuff so Im mostly guessing.


As for why I decided to post. I have two things I want to share/seek response on. 

First of all. Last night I decided to reach out to a friend from high school who I hadnt communicated with for nearly two years. Note. Im 25. Also she still lives in the area. The reason we lost touch was a combination of me being a jerk, me being needy, my social anxiety, and my tendency to embrace melodramatic self loathing. In short they tended to be busy, an adventure in my own idiocy led to a lot of self chastisement, and I started to think about the twin facts that she had not responded on Facebook for months and I had been messaging her probably every three days. Ultimately I blocked her on Facebook while telling myself I was a toxic presence and I needed to isolate myself. I also deleted almost all my facebook friends. Last night I sent her a message saying it had been a long time. If she doesnt respond I will probably return her to the block list amd retreat into my shell.

The other thing is that their is a gal (I guess, I don't come from somewhere where gal is in common parlance but I dislike using woman and girl to describe people around my age, they either dont feel right or are diminutive) who I think might have a crush on me. Or she is just really cheerful and excited to see everybody. Mostly she just always seems excited when I show up and in our first meeting she actually initiated conversation. I might have been part of a larger xonversation but she asled me something about LotR I think. She is a new employee in the lobby of an animal shelter I volunteer at.

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## Bartmanhomer

> That is wrong.
> 
> While I can't speak for Celtic, if you're in an abusive relationship or anything like that, your best course of action is to GET THE HELL OUT OF IT. (Assuming you can do so safely, at least. But the threat of danger should you leave is a sign that you need to get out.) While I sincerely hope Celtic's relationship is nothing like that, if they aren't happy with their significant other, no relationship is indeed better than having one.


I agree. No one wants an abusive relationship. I'll just leave the abusive relationship and cut ties with the abuser.

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## Honest Tiefling

Lissou, I don't think I hang around the same forums as you, but you seemed like a nice person. Please enjoy a nice virtual hug.

As for your issue, are there advocacy groups for workers with the particular health issue your husband have? They might have resources to contact in regards to your husband's unemployment. Similarly, speak to the vet. They might have a payment plan or be able to direct you to a group that can help with medical expenses.




> The other thing is that their is a gal (I guess, I don't come from somewhere where gal is in common parlance but I dislike using woman and girl to describe people around my age, they either dont feel right or are diminutive) who I think might have a crush on me. Or she is just really cheerful and excited to see everybody. Mostly she just always seems excited when I show up and in our first meeting she actually initiated conversation. I might have been part of a larger xonversation but she asled me something about LotR I think. She is a new employee in the lobby of an animal shelter I volunteer at.


Is...Is this a problem? I'm uncertain if you want to initiate more or to let her down gently.

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## Grytorm

> Is...Is this a problem? I'm uncertain if you want to initiate more or to let her down gently.


Mostly this is a largely unprecedented experience for me and it leaves me uncertain.

----------


## HalfTangible

I feel the urge to vent about how my life has been going for the last couple of months.

By coincidence, worst stuff goes first.

---

The day before Easter, my mother had a bad fall down the stairs and broke her one good leg. She spent weeks in the hospital and a few more weeks at a rehab center, during which I visited every day and fetched stuff for her when she asked. Which was basically every day. She's home now, but still unable to walk or get anywhere without her wheelchair.

While she was at the hospital, bro told me that she'd reeked of alcohol when she fell (I have very little sense of smell). She's had an alcohol problem for years, but since she was still basically able to function (i thought), I didn't think much of it. However, I asked, and apparently when she's drunk, it's indistinguishable from being tired. And I've been seeing her "tired" most every day over the last couple of years.

Which is kind of a huge moment of self-blame when you're the one who buys the alcohol.

Decided that I'm putting my foot down and not buying her crown anymore. She hasn't asked for any since her leg is still recovering, but I'm not looking forward to that conversation.

The bigger issue is that I am doing pretty much everything that she can't do herself. Which is most everything since she can't walk at all anymore

This is not helped by the fact that mother told me directly that she calls on me for everything because Dad spends most of his time in Russia and Bro is A) also working and B) about as reliable as a broken clock. (I do Uber, but I can drop in and out of that whenever I want, so it's not as much of an obligation as direct employment like bro.)

---

My brother's best friend (I talked about this when it happened; you may remember him as Bill) was killed 3 years ago by a drunk driver, and 2 weeks ago the driver was supposed to have his sentencing hearing. I went to this hearing with my mother, brother, and about 50 to 60 other people (the judge was surprised at how crowded it was). About an hour after the hearing was supposed to start, we found out that the defense attorney was in another county and could not come because he was involved in a federal child sex case (as a lawyer, to be clear) and even if the case closed quickly he wouldn't be able to make it to the meeting. This was _after_ the hearing was supposed to start, by the by, and a ton of the people there had flown in for this. So they tried to come up with a date everyone could show up again. I don't know what they decided but I'm pretty sure they still haven't resolved it.

This is not the first time that there's been a delay over this case. At this stage, I don't think anyone cares what sentence the guy gets, we just kinda want this to be over, if only for Bill's family.

Mom thinks that the lawyer in question called in a favor to get himself involved in a federal case to get this delayed on purpose. I'm not convinced at all.

---

Dad's home.

Those of you who have been in this thread for a long while may recall that he and I do not get along and this trip back has been no exception. The guy ranges from angry at everything I do to condescending beyond belief.

Oh, and his job in Russia may be done, but he's going to Kazahkstan next for a multi-year job.

That sounds good until you remember that Mom's still got a broken leg.

---

Every year around the 4th of July our family goes on vacation to a nearby city for about a week. Should be fun, right?

Eh... a few problems.

-Dad can't come this year due to timing w/his job
-Bro isn't coming because of... I don't even ****ing know, he doesn't tell me ****
-Mom still can't walk.
-Even when she could, I spend most of every family vacation running from place to place doing **** for them.

So yeah. Me and mom going to a family vacation wherein most of our family isn't going and I will spend most of it working.

Yaaaaay...

---

To top it all off, I also have a couple summer classes that I need to do at the same time that I am having a bit of trouble with in part because there is so much to do every week and our professor changes the coding language we use with every assignment. The net connection up where I'm going for this family "vacation" is incredibly spotty (which is a problem when you need to do classes *online*) 

I can try and request an extension, but I dunno if that'll actually fly with my professors.

---

So yeah. Right at this moment there's **** in most every direction. It's not _all_ bad (went to Anime Matsuri after the failed trial and it'll be nice to see people I know on vacation) but it's got a lot of bad.

I feel like a slave. Or at the very least, trapped.

None of this is anyone's fault but I still find myself blaming them for it.

----------


## Sermil

> Hugs to everyone who would like them.


Hugs back to you; it sounds like you need them.

I've been through layoffs and such several times, and even when I've gotten through them by the end, it's always scary at the time. 

I don't have much advice; it sounds like you're doing the right things. Do ask the vet if they have any help for people who can't afford to pay.

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## Kesnit

> Mom thinks that the lawyer in question called in a favor to get himself involved in a federal case to get this delayed on purpose. I'm not convinced at all.


I find it highly unlikely. Federal cases take a long time to go through, so it's hard to imagine he specifically found a case (esp a case like this one) that would keep him occupied, just to avoid a vehicular manslaughter sentencing. 





> Every year around the 4th of July our family goes on vacation to a nearby city for about a week. Should be fun, right?
> 
> Eh... a few problems.
> 
> -Dad can't come this year due to timing w/his job
> -Bro isn't coming because of... I don't even ****ing know, he doesn't tell me ****
> -Mom still can't walk.
> -Even when she could, I spend most of every family vacation running from place to place doing **** for them.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great reason to cancel the family vacation.

----------


## HalfTangible

> I find it highly unlikely. Federal cases take a long time to go through, so it's hard to imagine he specifically found a case (esp a case like this one) that would keep him occupied, just to avoid a vehicular manslaughter sentencing.


Agreed.




> Sounds like a great reason to cancel the family vacation.


Agreed again. But that's not my decision.

There are people we visit every year, anyway. It'll be nice to see them, at least.

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## Honest Tiefling

> I find it highly unlikely. Federal cases take a long time to go through, so it's hard to imagine he specifically found a case (esp a case like this one) that would keep him occupied, just to avoid a vehicular manslaughter sentencing.


'Ah yes, this is JUST the case I want to be a part of, a case where I have to review possible evidence of a minor being assaulted!'. Unless this man has no heart, he probably doesn't want to be there.




> Sounds like a great reason to cancel the family vacation.


I'm with Kesnit. Even if you got along with everyone (and it kinda sounds like the brother is trying to distance himself or is just a huge flake), your schooling is important. Don't cancel, just don't go.

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## Lissou

Thanks everyone for the hugs, and the suggestion to talk to the vet. I sent her an email asking about payment plans and ways to schedule the testing. Hopefully she'll answer tomorrow, either way I am probably driving there tomorrow to pick up the medication and we can discuss it in person.

I would prefer not to ask my family for help, but it's good to remember that's an option, so I appreciate that suggestion too.

Thank you for the advice and the hugs, I feel a bit better just knowing some people are here rooting for me.

@HalfTangible

Ouch, that sucks. I'm so sorry. First, it's really difficult when a family member is struggling with addiction, but then you have the case being delayed which is stopping so many people from getting closure.
Your Dad leaving while your Mom is still recovering from her leg injury puts extra pressure on you, too (although maybe it will be better with him being away at least), so basically it looks like you're being put in charge of a lot right now.
I don't know that there is anything I can say that would help, but I hope everything moves forward and gets resolved :S

----------


## caden_varn

@Lissou - Are there any animal-welfare charities around that might be able to help? I don't know what is around in the US, but they definitely exist in the UK, so I would think there may be something that might help?

----------


## darkrose50

I have two daughters (9, and 12).  

One of my daughters, the younger one, likely inherited my high functioning autism (Aspburger's Syndrome) with a side-order of dyslexia (also from me).  She struggles in social situations and scored an 8, on some test (given by the school) for autism where a 7 means you have it, and a 9 means that you do not.  Understandably she does not want it, and is a bit fearful that she may have it.  I am a bit fearful for her as well.  It makes life difficult for most folks that have it.  This could very likely mean that she would be unable to hold down a job when she grows up (I had a supervisor try to fire my 2-3 times, for example, but they let her go).  I will have to watch her like a hawk to make sure that she is not abused or taken advantage of.

My other daughter is extremely social, is extremely mindboggling athletic (she does things like put on ice skates for the first time, and *bam* she knows how to skate), and constantly wins all sorts of awards across many categories (art awards, citizenship awards, meddles, trophies).  She can flip around like a ninja: cartwheels, all those crazy gymnastic flips they do and . . . for the love of god she can do cartwheels without her hands!  She has littler girls emulating her.  She also looks like a 12-year-old version of Brook Shields.  My wife says that she is drop dead gorgeous (in privet, not around the children).  Everything comes easier when you are drop dead gorgeous.

My younger cries every time her older sister wins . . . at seemingly everything.  My older child would like to be a lawyer, has the willpower of Atlas, and will likely be quite successful at damned-near-everything she does.  My younger daughter may have to live with her parents for the rest of her life, and may be unable to hold down a job.  This cannot end well.  

What do you do when one of your children struggles, and the other child also struggles with things, but is constantly winning awards?  

-----

I have hope for my younger child, and actually think that there is a strong chance that she is smarter than I am.  I scored as a genius as a child, and I honestly think that my 9-year-old is smarter than I am.  How do you parent a child that is smarter than you are (this could be an odd conversation to have with my folks)?

----------


## Mith

> I have two daughters (9, and 12).  
> 
> One of my daughters, the younger one, likely inherited my high functioning autism (Aspburger's Syndrome) with a side-order of dyslexia (also from me).  She struggles in social situations and scored an 8, on some test for autism where a 7 means you have it, and a 9 means that you do not.  Understandably she does not want it, and is a bit fearful that she may have it.  I am a bit fearful for her as well.  It makes life difficult for most folks that have it.  I will have to watch her like a hawk to make sure that she is not abused or taken advantage of.
> 
> My other daughter is extremely social, is extremely mindboggling athletic (she does things like put on ice skates for the first time, and *bam* she knows how to skate), and constantly wins all sorts of awards across many categories (art awards, citizenship awards, meddles, trophies).  She has littler girls emulating her.  She also looks like a 12-year-old version of Brook Shields.  My wife says that she is drop dead gorgeous (in privet, not around the children).  Everything comes easier when you are drop dead gorgeous.
> 
> My younger cries every time he older sister wins . . . at seemingly everything.  This cannot end well.  
> 
> What do you do when one of your children struggles, and the other child also struggles with things, but constantly is winning awards?  
> ...


Do you know how well your children get along with each other?  I know I benefited with having an older brother who had a better idea of what issues at school would be and all that.

To give an example, he's the one who told the kids at daycare that I had a personal radio system like the spy movies (corded FM radio system with hearing aid systems), thus side stepping the whole "that kid is weird" issue entirely.  I didn't even become aware of this fact until the story was retold in High School.  This would be from when we were both younger than your kids, but the idea is still the same.  Also, them having closer relationship may eliminate some of the envy that your younger child feels.  If she can have someone who she views as highly talented point out and appreciate her own strengths.

As far as what to do with raising a child who's smarter than you?  I'm **** when it comes to children, but I would think the main difference is to really focus on making sure they don't get bored, and have good communication with you. To me, intelligence allows you to get farther along before you get yourself into trouble, and you may not be able to get out as easily.  The whole "focus on what you could do, without asking if you should.".  With good two way communication, you should be able to still guide your child, even as you feel like they exceed your own intelligence.

----------


## Razade

The big thing you should do re: your children is to explain to them (both of them because even if your oldest seems to be doing fine...she may well not be) that you love them both equally and for their individual merits and that just because someone is better at some things that doesn't mean they're better at everything. You should also explain that struggling is a part of life and it's a path to improvement and doesn't indicate they're dumb or inferior. You should also maybe tell them that crying about other people's success isn't the best way to handle things. But what do I know. She's nine years old, I hate children and I'm not your mom. 

The other big thing is...they're 9 and 12. That's the age young women start puberty. These are feelings you'd absolutely expect to see in pubescent children, female or otherwise. I'm not here to tell you to have those sorts of talks to your kids but they're going to have those talks with other people considering it's a part of school curriculum in most places. You should take the time to discuss those things with them if you're up to it. 

The big thing is the first thing though.

----------


## darkrose50

Basically there is something like an 80% chance that my younger child may not be able to hold down a job.  I need to figure out how best to get her to the 20% side that can could hold down a job.  I am okay with her living with me forever.

It takes a lot of energy to have Aspburger's Syndrom and go to grade school, high school or college.  Energy that is not going towards other things, like learning the subjects.  My main objective in high-school was to blend in.  High school was easy for me (show up for class, and be as an intimidating enough looking guy), but grade school (learning social skills) and college were quite difficult.  College had a lack of suture and written rules that were not followed . . . the syllabus is very often a series of lies . . . basically written by the professors boss, and not the professor) .  This is considerably harder to do without social skills coming naturally.  It hurts that she will likely have to do the same thing.  

She will likely need to master social skills that come naturally to others (social interaction).  This takes time, and effort away from mastering other things.  Most of the time the end result is not advantageous as compared to the general social skill level of your average person.  Sometimes folks with autism become actors and actresses.  I word things carefully as not to confuse people, and as a result (in part) I do okay over the phone selling insurance.

Not only does her sister likely not have high functioning autism, but she is extremely successful, athletic, pretty, popular, and smart.  

I just need to figure out if there is anything I can do, in order to be proactive, and help her fall on the 20% side of the fence where she would be able to hold down a job if she wanted one.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

1) Does the youngest have any close friends? If so, do what you can to encourage this, especially if they go to a different school. Having some close friends will probably make the rest of school suck less. If not, I'd really consider encouraging her to hobbies to make those friends. If you can afford it, consider letting her do summer camps or lessons in a variety of things until she has one thing her sister doesn't, and maybe she'll make some friends along the way.

2) You said she had dyslexia. Have you gotten her tested for other things like dyscalculia or dysgraphia? Knowing what will be struggles and finding ways to counter act them early might not be a bad idea. If there is dysgraphia, GET HER A COMPUTER. SPELLCHECK IS AWESOME.

3) Consider looking into tutors. Teachers with 30+ kids are going to have to present the material for the majority and might not even be taught how to handle autistic folks in the best of cases. Bribe child with pizza and clothing money if needed. 

4) Introduce yourself to her teachers. Chances are, at least one is going to be a bully. Nip that in the bud by speaking to them.

5) Make time through your work (Or your wife, doesn't really matter which) to scream at people. When my very bullied sister got to school, my parents often had to head to the principal's office to sort out things. Be polite, but make it clear you will not tolerate a teacher or student bullying your child and that they aren't going to get rid of you easily.

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## darkrose50

> 1) Does the youngest have any close friends? If so, do what you can to encourage this, especially if they go to a different school. Having some close friends will probably make the rest of school suck less. If not, I'd really consider encouraging her to hobbies to make those friends. If you can afford it, consider letting her do summer camps or lessons in a variety of things until she has one thing her sister doesn't, and maybe she'll make some friends along the way.
> 
> 2) You said she had dyslexia. Have you gotten her tested for other things like dyscalculia or dysgraphia? Knowing what will be struggles and finding ways to counter act them early might not be a bad idea. If there is dysgraphia, GET HER A COMPUTER. SPELLCHECK IS AWESOME.
> 
> 3) Consider looking into tutors. Teachers with 30+ kids are going to have to present the material for the majority and might not even be taught how to handle autistic folks in the best of cases. Bribe child with pizza and clothing money if needed. 
> 
> 4) Introduce yourself to her teachers. Chances are, at least one is going to be a bully. Nip that in the bud by speaking to them.
> 
> 5) Make time through your work (Or your wife, doesn't really matter which) to scream at people. When my very bullied sister got to school, my parents often had to head to the principal's office to sort out things. Be polite, but make it clear you will not tolerate a teacher or student bullying your child and that they aren't going to get rid of you easily.


[1] She has a friend that she plays with across the street.  I was very thrilled to see this.  
[2] I think that they did a pretty large battery of tests.  I told them what she likely needed.  Basically she needs to read and write to learn (not lectures or group circles without the written word), and not having written instructions will be difficult for her.  They don't start taking notes until 3rd grade . . . she likely needs to take notes to learn.  I think that I likely started learning at 3rd grade, and did not hit grade level until 5th-ish to 7th-ish, and was at the college level when I was at the end of 8th grade.
[3] We have one, our babysitter is really good with this.  She also has Asperger's syndrome.  She has an IQ of 167, and three English degrees.  She picks them up from school and helps then with homework until we get home.  We are quite lucky to have the help.
[4] My wife is teacher and knows all the right buttons to push.
[5] My wife is teacher and knows all the right buttons to push.

It is hard to try and explain why my 12-year-old needs to look after my 9-year-old (at school, outside playing with the neighborhood kids . . . in other words do not leave your sister playing out front to go to your friends house).  Basically people are idjuts, and figure a 12-year-old should not be paying attention to her 9-year old sister . . . all idjits . . . her sister there to make sure that she is not abused is a rather high priority.  Much higher than with most 9-year-olds.  Treating everyone the same is not responsible.  

Some family members want me to ignore the issue, not have any contingency plans, or face the facts at hand, and hope the issue goes away.

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## Chen

Get a real diagnosis. That will let you determine the exact course of action. Therapies, medication, counseling etc are available to help manage high functioning autism. IEPs exist for children who have special needs at school. Work with your school to get one of those started.

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## WarKitty

And apparently I've stressed myself into TMJ issues.

I really don't know what to do with this.  I'm not inclined to go for "just try therapy again".  I might be inclined if someone could give me a little more than that to go on.  But I'm disinclined to go for basically trying the same thing again and hoping it manages to work differently this time.

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## Lissou

WarKitty, that's understandable. Therapy hasn't really helped you before, it's even made some things worse it seems. Unless you find someone new who is understanding of what you've been through, it will be hard to trust that therapy will do anything for you.

What do you currently do to help with stress? Diet/meditation/exercise? Animal companions? I don't know what works for you, but if your stress is bad enough that you're developing new physical conditions (and TMJ really sucks, too), hopefully you can find ways to reduce stress somehow.

I don't know how to help, but I hope talking here helps a bit at least. I know it helps me :)
Hugs, if you want them.


As for my own issues, I picked up the medication for my cat. It's cheaper than the vet told me, it was $20 for a box of 100 pills, so $20 for 100 days, which is good. The vet clinic doesn't have their own payment plan, but they directed me to a website they work with that offers interest-free loans for up to a year for pet medical expenses, and I'll definitely look into that.
We can't push Sissi's tests for too long, because if she does have kidney disease, the meds could make it worse as hyperthyroidism both masks but also improved kidney dysfunction. We don't want the meds to end up doing more harm than good. The vet as agreed to do the first test in three weeks, which will help without hurting Sissi's health.

So while I'm still worried about her, the financial aspect if her treatment should be fine. If either of us finds a new source of income within a month, we should be fine for rent too.

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions :)

----------


## Anymage

> As for my own issues, I picked up the medication for my cat. It's cheaper than the vet told me, it was $20 for a box of 100 pills, so $20 for 100 days, which is good. The vet clinic doesn't have their own payment plan, but they directed me to a website they work with that offers interest-free loans for up to a year for pet medical expenses, and I'll definitely look into that.
> We can't push Sissi's tests for too long, because if she does have kidney disease, the meds could make it worse as hyperthyroidism both masks but also improved kidney dysfunction. We don't want the meds to end up doing more harm than good. The vet as agreed to do the first test in three weeks, which will help without hurting Sissi's health.
> 
> So while I'm still worried about her, the financial aspect if her treatment should be fine. If either of us finds a new source of income within a month, we should be fine for rent too.
> 
> Thanks again everyone for the suggestions :)


A quick googling of "pet medical charities" brought up a few pages, with these two being among the ones linked and each linking to charities for pet owners who are having a hard time paying for care.  Couldn't hurt to contact some.  Also doesn't hurt to donate when you have some free money, so there's more available for other people who find that their pet's health puts them in a bind.




> And apparently I've stressed myself into TMJ issues.
> 
> I really don't know what to do with this.  I'm not inclined to go for "just try therapy again".  I might be inclined if someone could give me a little more than that to go on.  But I'm disinclined to go for basically trying the same thing again and hoping it manages to work differently this time.


When I think "therapist", I think of someone who tries to help you break out of of unhealthy patterns of thought.  From things you've said, it sounds like your problems are more about your situation than your outlook.  Even if you found a good therapist, I don't know how much they'd be the right tool for the job.

A psychiatrist might help by prescribing meds.  But even if professional advice weren't against the forum rules, I have neither the training nor the understanding of how your mind works to say what might work.  And psychiatrists, by dint of having been trained the way they are, can also fall into the trap of thinking that their first impression is obviously and unimpeachably Right.  One might help if you can think of mood issues that you can't seem to shake and that are not just normal extensions of complicated life stresses.  This is less for you specifically, and more because someone else reading this might realize that medication is what they need more than blanket "therapy".  There are anti-anxiety drugs that some people consider essential, but I don't want to recommend those without a lot more information.

Just having someone to vent to and having ways to let off stress in general can often help, especially if you've spent so long walking on eggshells that you consider the high tension state to be a baseline.  (Which I guess a good therapist could help you break out of, but the first thing they'd do would be to help you realize what not being perpetually on edge would feel like.  You can do that without the stresses of putting yourself in a theraputic setting.)  So the most important questions are, what can you do to help yourself destress, and how many people do you have who you can vent to so you don't feel like you have to carry it all on your own.

----------


## Lissou

> A quick googling of "pet medical charities" brought up a few pages, with these two being among the ones linked and each linking to charities for pet owners who are having a hard time paying for care.  Couldn't hurt to contact some.  Also doesn't hurt to donate when you have some free money, so there's more available for other people who find that their pet's health puts them in a bind.


Thanks. I've looked into a few pet charities but they all required proof of income and I'm not sure how we're supposed to prove that we won't have future income. They suggest stuff like tax returns and pay stubs, both of which would only show our previous income. I'm not sure they'd accept the text message telling my husband he's no longer working at his job as proof of income. But I can contact them and ask. If they require us to be registered for unemployment, that will take a few months (from past experience, my former roommate applied for unemployment a few years ago).

----------


## darkrose50

> Get a real diagnosis. That will let you determine the exact course of action. Therapies, medication, counseling etc are available to help manage high functioning autism. IEPs exist for children who have special needs at school. Work with your school to get one of those started.


She has an IEP, but not an autism diagnosis.  She scored an 8 on a evaluation at school where 7 or lower is autism, and 9 and higher is not.  In America they did away with Asperger's Syndrome as a diagnosis.  I fear that it is now harder to obtain a diagnosis for many people like me.  

We brought her to one psychiatrist and he was clueless at what more he could do that the school did not already do.  I think that he was new, and the guidelines are also sort-of new.  I suppose I need to try again.

Overall I think that it runs in the family and those who have had it have done fine with employment.  I suppose I should not worry too much, but still I would like to address the concern.  My families version must have a  higher likelihood of employment.

One or two (I have four) of my nephews likely have it (so 2/6 or 3/6 of the generation including my youngest).  

One nephew scored in the 99% with math, but somehow managed to pull in a C-average in high school.   I am 100% certain that a diagnosis for this guy would be extremely useful to have at the moment.  Now he is having trouble with a scholarship, and I am quite sure that a diagnosis would fix the issue.  He will need an extreme level of support to make it in college.  He could possibly be an actuary, or in finance, and would do quite well if we can get him there.  

Some people, like my sister (who also likely has it), think that ignoring the issue, and not addressing it would be good for the child.  I have never met anyone with Asperger's Syndrome who said that they regretted knowing how and why their minds are different.  It was cathartic for me.  

My other nephew (I am on the fence upon, but he has many of the traits) will likely not need anywhere near the same support level, he is quite organized, and focused.  I think he will be extremely successful.  He is smart, and he knows it.  He is aggressive, assertive, and will likely do just fine.

My grandfather needed someone to take him under his wing in order to succeed in carpentry.  He would make extra money playing poker.  I think that one of my uncles had it (he would make extra money selling coins).  I think that at least one of my cousins had it (~2/13 for that generation).  

My cousin was the quarterback of his high school, and later was successful at carpentry.  His high school girlfriend ended up being a special education teacher, later his wife, and likely greatly helped him navigate social situations.  My high school girlfriend also became a special education teacher, and my wife.  This is not a unique pattern.  The doctor who diagnosed me smiled widely when he heard this . . . it is stereotypical.

It is difficult to diagnose in girls.  In boys it is quite easy to detect (in comparison).  I may have girl cousins with it that I do not know about.

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## WarKitty

Unfortunately, I think I'm at the point where I've gotten basically everything I can from just venting.  What I need is some way to actually feel safe and help actually getting through traumatic memories.  Venting, by itself, often ends up just retriggering them with no real improvement.




> Thanks. I've looked into a few pet charities but they all required proof of income and I'm not sure how we're supposed to prove that we won't have future income. They suggest stuff like tax returns and pay stubs, both of which would only show our previous income. I'm not sure they'd accept the text message telling my husband he's no longer working at his job as proof of income. But I can contact them and ask. If they require us to be registered for unemployment, that will take a few months (from past experience, my former roommate applied for unemployment a few years ago).


They probably would.  I imagine that "I lost my job" is an incredibly common reason for people to need assistance.  There's got to be some sort of setup for it.

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## Comrade

Update on the whole 'trying therapy' business: I reached out to a place that provides counseling based on a sliding scale of income and predictably things immediately went off course. I left a voicemail with a good time and date for them to call back for intake, and they called back on a different day at a different time where I couldn't talk, so I had to ask them to call back. The second time, they got the day right, but called a couple hours later than I'd asked and I once again couldn't talk, so I had to ask them to call back _again_. Third time's the charm, we finally took care of the basic intake and such, and we settled on Wednesdays for appointments. Except, well, this part's on me, my dumb ass clean forgot to mention that I'd be going out of town on Wednesday the following week and wouldn't be able to start appointments until early July. When the counselor I'd been assigned got in touch with me via email to confirm the first appointment, I let them know that I'd be out of town for the next couple of weeks. They still haven't gotten back to me about rescheduling. For all I know they might not get back to me at all.

None of this is disastrous or anything, but I can't help but be a little frustrated that I finally got off my butt to get some assistance only to run into all these little delays and miscommunications.

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## Honest Tiefling

> She has an IEP, but not an autism diagnosis.  She scored an 8 on a evaluation at school where 7 or lower is autism, and 9 and higher is not.  In America they did away with Asperger's Syndrome as a diagnosis.  I fear that it is now harder to obtain a diagnosis for many people like me.  
> 
> We brought her to one psychiatrist and he was clueless at what more he could do that the school did not already do.  I think that he was new, and the guidelines are also sort-of new.  I suppose I need to try again.


Personally, I'd check with an group for parents of child with whatever they are calling it these days. Chances are that they or an advocacy group will know of someone who could give an actual diagnosis. I wouldn't really trust a test from the school since they likely would have reasons to push children in either direction. They'd probably also have better advice for schooling than someone without children or Asperger's, really.

As for that baby sitter, I strongly advise doing what you can to keep her, even if it's something like having Fridays or Saturdays off.

If your child needs to take notes, maybe look into a laptop in a few years? Not sure if the school allows those or it'll help, but it can't hurt to look into them.

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## darkrose50

> Do you know how well your children get along with each other?  I know I benefited with having an older brother who had a better idea of what issues at school would be and all that.


They fight, but also get along.  I think it is at the normal level.  The older sister likely knows what to do, and I will make sure to reinforce this behavior.

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## WarKitty

Just frustrated right now.  I feel like I need someone who could actually give me neutral, unbiased information on my own experiences and how to keep myself safe.  Which would have to be someone who is not involved in the mental health system in any way.  I can't feel like I can trust anyone within it to actually be unbiased.

I feel like I need to know how to protect myself from the people who are supposed to be there to help and protect me.  Where do you even turn for that?

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## ve4grm

> Just frustrated right now.  I feel like I need someone who could actually give me neutral, unbiased information on my own experiences and how to keep myself safe.  Which would have to be someone who is not involved in the mental health system in any way.  I can't feel like I can trust anyone within it to actually be unbiased.
> 
> I feel like I need to know how to protect myself from the people who are supposed to be there to help and protect me.  Where do you even turn for that?


I'd say try to get counselling separate from the therapy system, but with a quick google they're pretty interconnected. The Canadian association that governs them, for example, is the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association. https://www.ccpa-accp.ca/profession/
And even they say:



> It is not possible to make a generally accepted distinction between counselling and psychotherapy. There are well founded traditions which use the terms interchangeably and others which distinguish between them. If there are differences, then they relate more to the individual psychotherapists or counsellors training and interests and to the setting in which they work, rather than to any intrinsic difference in the two activities.


That said, if you can find someone who bills themself as a Counsellor, rather than a Therapist, you may have better luck. They're likely trained similarly, but they handle things from different directions.

Another thought, you may find such a person under Family Counsellors, or Relationship Counsellors. Since a decent amount of your problematic experiences seem to stem from family, I'm sure they'd be knowledgeable about them, and I know that some will take a single person when the others involved are not wanting to attend, or not desirable to have there.

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## WarKitty

> Another thought, you may find such a person under Family Counsellors, or Relationship Counsellors. Since a decent amount of your problematic experiences seem to stem from family, I'm sure they'd be knowledgeable about them, and I know that some will take a single person when the others involved are not wanting to attend, or not desirable to have there.


I do have to say - even within mental health, family and relationship therapy is considered bad when dealing with abuse.  It's built to start from the paradigm of "what can you do to get along better with the other person."  It's very, very common for relationship counselors to make things worse by encouraging the victim to take responsibility for their part in the relationship.

Edit: around here, generally people who bill themselves as a counselor and not a therapist are those who are trained only in a religious or alternative medicine system.

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## Sermil

> One of my daughters, the younger one, likely inherited my high functioning autism (Aspburger's Syndrome) with a side-order of dyslexia (also from me).



Don't know much about autism / Aspburger's, but I do have dyslexic kids. Highly recommend the Barton Reading and Spelling system. Basically breaks down the English language into a (very long, very complete) set of rules, and then practices, practices, practices those rules. In multiple formats (reading words made with letter tiles, spelling with letter tiles, reading words, writing words on paper, reading longer sentences, reading paragraphs). 

You can pretty much do the entire program at home -- assuming you are willing to spend 6-10 hours a week for 4 years. It's a lot, but honestly, it's necessary. And it works. it's probably the only reason my son can read and write and hold down a good job. So I recommend it whenever I hear about a person with dyslexic kids. 

Look into it.

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## Bartmanhomer

Well, I have Autism/ADHD and I know what it's like to have it.

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## Chen

> Just frustrated right now.  I feel like I need someone who could actually give me neutral, unbiased information on my own experiences and how to keep myself safe.  Which would have to be someone who is not involved in the mental health system in any way.  I can't feel like I can trust anyone within it to actually be unbiased.
> 
> I feel like I need to know how to protect myself from the people who are supposed to be there to help and protect me.  Where do you even turn for that?


A religious figure is the only thing that comes to mind outside of standard therapists or councellors who are inevitably part of the mental health care system. 

Close friends or a teacher youre close to perhaps but that would be more of a one of thing rather than something longer term Id think.

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## Jon_Dahl

Firstly, I would like to thank Comrade and Finn_Lassie. After reading your messages, I decided not to write anything to him. I would like to be constructive, as Finn_Lassie suggested, but he mistreated me so badly that I just can't say anything constructive to him. Maybe in another lifetime.

Secondly, I'm sad today and I have a lump in my throat. It's about a friendship that wasn't even a friendship that ended today. When I did my teacher studies, I got acquainted with other teacher trainees. They were likeable people and I changed phone numbers with one of them for the purposes of WhatsApp communication. Over the past 20 months or so, we've been talking about writing our MA theses, our life, our families, finding a job etc. I was a bit disconcerted with the fact that she was actively cheating on her husband with two other guys and she showed me the men too. This coupled with the fact that she showed me her kids and her husband made me feel sorry for her husband, but otherwise I have an open mind for poly-amorous people. She wanted to have sex with one of the men soon after she had given birth, which was something that I found hard to understand, but whatever. She sent me sexy pictures in which she was wearing lingerie and making poses, but I didn't care that much. I said cool or something like that, but I didn't care. I didn't find her attractive, but I said something to be polite. We had some good moments together. This one time I wished her happy International Women's Day and she told me that I was the only man who remembered the day. I also supported her when she was diagnosed with MS.

Lately my psychologist friend has been sending me interesting links about criminal behavior and sexuality and given me interesting view points on these matters. He works with people with severe mental illnesses. I have been sharing those links with my friends too. When I shared one of those links with my friend (mentioned in the second paragraph above), she complained that I seem to be overly fascinated with all kinds of weird stuff. I felt embarrassed, because I realized that maybe not everyone thought that these things were interesting. I explained this to her and I promised not to send any of that stuff anymore. I also told her that she shouldn't be so cynical and think that finding criminal behavior makes me some kind of a weirdo. I found it strange that she treated me like a total stranger out of the blue. First, she laughed and asked me that why do I keep sending her messages. I said that I like to keep in touch my friends. I was perplexed by her question, but I kept calm. Then she told me that we should focus on our own lives and not keep in touch. I said "fine" and deleted her number.

I just don't get it.

My friend, the psychologist, told me that she must've felt guilty for cheating on her husband and this reflected on me, since deleting me, a man who knew everything, was symbolic to the removal of her guilt.

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## Chen

Woman is going against social conventions and cheating on her husband. You send her a link to an article about criminality and sexuality. Do you not think she may have inferred you were judging her based on that? Thats how I would read into it...

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## WarKitty

> A religious figure is the only thing that comes to mind outside of standard therapists or councellors who are inevitably part of the mental health care system. 
> 
> Close friends or a teacher youre close to perhaps but that would be more of a one of thing rather than something longer term Id think.


Yeah, that's kind of what I'm hitting.

It's bothering me what happened with that one guy so long ago.  You have a case where there are very clearly multiple victims and a pattern of inappropriate behavior.  Yet there are not just no consequences but no record even, and victims are dismissed as just being crazy.  That does not fill me with confidence that the state of mental health right now is capable of policing itself or preventing people like that from preying on those in a vulnerable position.

I think most practitioners mean well.  But I also think the system is set up in a way that tends to protect those who don't.  And that for me very much undermines my ability to feel safe working with someone.

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## Jon_Dahl

> Woman is going against social conventions and cheating on her husband. You send her a link to an article about criminality and sexuality. Do you not think she may have inferred you were judging her based on that? Thats how I would read into it...


That's a possibility. It would be very unfortunate if she thought like that.

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## WarKitty

Come to think of it, I have never had another therapist who actually seemed to _get_ the effect of dealing with that one guy.  I've had some who acknowledged that it was bad, but even after they seemed confused why it would affect things in the future.  It's always felt very much like professionals want to downplay it and treat it as though I just had someone I didn't click with.

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## Honest Tiefling

This may sound weird, Warkitty, but...Is there anyone you'd trust to take with you to these sessions? Even if they don't contribute, they could just sit there and listen.

And Jon_Dahl, I think Chen has a point. She was likely offended by the articles and I think most people would be. Especially since she seems to have some sort of cheating kink and seems to have wanted you to be a part of it in some fashion. So not only did you accidentally imply that her behavior was criminal, you did so after she seemed to try to approach you. So, double whammy.

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## Anymage

> I was a bit disconcerted with the fact that she was actively cheating on her husband with two other guys and she showed me the men too. This coupled with the fact that she showed me her kids and her husband made me feel sorry for her husband, but otherwise I have an open mind for poly-amorous people.


Which is it, cheating or polyamorous?  The big difference is that the latter happens with the full knowledge and blessing of one's partner(s), while the former doesn't.

Although even if her husband did sign off on all this, being so forthright with the intimate details to outsiders sounds off in its own right.




> First, she laughed and asked me that why do I keep sending her messages. I said that I like to keep in touch my friends. I was perplexed by her question, but I kept calm. Then she told me that we should focus on our own lives and not keep in touch. I said "fine" and deleted her number.
> 
> I just don't get it.


How long had it been since your last interaction?  If the program between the two of you had ended and it had been a while, she may have mentally roundfiled you as soon as you stopped being relevant.  I've known a fair number of people who put others out of mind after a certain amount of time without contact.

And it's strange that she considers such intimate details of her life to be hunky dory to share with casual friends but considers psych articles "weird", but lots of people have nonsensical boundaries and comfort zones.




> This may sound weird, Warkitty, but...Is there anyone you'd trust to take with you to these sessions? Even if they don't contribute, they could just sit there and listen.


Kitty isn't stupid.  I have a feeling that if she had people she trusted enough for something like that, she'd be trying to work through her stresses with them.  If anything, she seems to be caught in a catch-22; Having had her trust abused so thoroughly by people who should be trustworthy, it's hard to open up to people enough to properly process her issues.  From the outside it's simple enough to see, but from the inside finding a spot to start unraveling the mess.

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## WarKitty

There are people I trust, but not in the range to help.  Unfortunately trauma issues typically require more than simply talking things out, from what I've found.  And that is the catch.  I find too much difficulty in the therapeutic relationship to trust there, especially when you only see a person in one carefully scripted hour.  But it's not the sort of thing that is generally relieved by talking to someone with no experience with trauma.

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## Tvtyrant

> Come to think of it, I have never had another therapist who actually seemed to _get_ the effect of dealing with that one guy.  I've had some who acknowledged that it was bad, but even after they seemed confused why it would affect things in the future.  It's always felt very much like professionals want to downplay it and treat it as though I just had someone I didn't click with.


Makes perfect sense to me. Therapists generally go into the profession to help people, and studied alongside a lot of other people who did the same. From their point of view that person is an extreme outlier.

The same is true of most professions; those in the profession know the majority of people are good and well intentioned, but a client has less exposure to the group as a whole so their bad experience(s) taint the whole group. A bad doctor, therapist, priest, teacher, etc.

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## Honest Tiefling

> There are people I trust, but not in the range to help.


Uhh...Do you mean not in range physically, or that you don't want them there? Because if its the former, maybe consider having them on Facetime or Skype during the session?

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## WarKitty

> Uhh...Do you mean not in range physically, or that you don't want them there? Because if its the former, maybe consider having them on Facetime or Skype during the session?


I did actually mean the first.  Maybe worth considering?  It's hard for me to manage because the first response most therapists have to me bringing up these things is to talk about managing paranoia.  Which sets me off because that's what was used against me.  Basically telling me the abuse I reported was just a symptom of me being paranoid.  So I don't really feel safe discussing how unsafe I actually feel with someone I don't know very well.  And I don't feel safe making requests that would reveal that I need extra support to feel safe.

----------


## Jon_Dahl

> Which is it, cheating or polyamorous?  The big difference is that the latter happens with the full knowledge and blessing of one's partner(s), while the former doesn't.
> 
> Although even if her husband did sign off on all this, being so forthright with the intimate details to outsiders sounds off in its own right.
> 
> 
> 
> How long had it been since your last interaction?  If the program between the two of you had ended and it had been a while, she may have mentally roundfiled you as soon as you stopped being relevant.  I've known a fair number of people who put others out of mind after a certain amount of time without contact.
> 
> And it's strange that she considers such intimate details of her life to be hunky dory to share with casual friends but considers psych articles "weird", but lots of people have nonsensical boundaries and comfort zones.


Last week.

I would also like to note that I heard plenty of details about the men whom she slept with, including how their genitalia functioned. However, I wasn't allowed to show pictures of women. This one time, my Brazilian friend showed me a picture where she had the funniest fur bikini. I showed that picture, with my friend's approval, to the woman, and she said that it was just a trick to get her to show her body. It wasn't. I just liked the fur bikini. Quite impractical, I would say, but nice. I told this to my Brazilian friend, who was most likely expecting people to say nice things about her classy fur bikini, and she concluded that the woman was "nuts". After that, I guess our (i.e. my ex-friend and me) relationship was started to cool off.

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## Honest Tiefling

Well, Jon_Dahl, you say the crazy woman got mad at you and the relationship cooled off after you showed her that you had access to other (presumably attractive) women in bikinis? Are you 100% sure this was her trying to reel you in for her weird fetish? That's how it sounds like to me. I think she got pissy you neither took the bait and were talking to other women. Even if the Brazilian friend didn't mean to send you the picture in a flirtatious way, I think Weird Friend took it that way.

Your Brazilian friend was putting it mildly by calling her nuts.

As for you, WarKitty, I think you are in a difficult position. I wish I had more advice, but I do not. But I do wish to say that I hope you find a way to get some help that works for you. If anything, try to frame having the person with you as that you feel like they have valuable input and might help you phrase things? You can reveal the truth later. I think a good one would understand.

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## WarKitty

Honestly I even wish I could find information on trauma caused by treatment.  You basically can't search for it because the results get flooded by stuff talking about trauma treatment in general.

I'd feel a lot better if there weren't such stigma to not benefitting from therapy.

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## Adaon Nightwind

I do hope that i am not being to forward with replying to that, WarKitty. I just read the last messages and started to search, hoping to maybe find something. There was nothing on trauma caused by treatment so far, but maybe this will still help you?

https://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaig...umatic-events/

I do not know where you come from of course, but i do guess from the North American Continent. Therefore, any contact you could find from the above link would be far away, so hopefully non-threatening, and still be competent - and also, because of your distance to them, more likely to seriously look for examples from their experience for you.

I wish you luck.

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## Mith

> Honestly I even wish I could find information on trauma caused by treatment.  You basically can't search for it because the results get flooded by stuff talking about trauma treatment in general.
> 
> I'd feel a lot better if there weren't such stigma to not benefitting from therapy.


And when you think about it, that's bizarre.  There are aspects of medicine that are much more concrete than human experiences that do not have "The One" treatment to fix things.  And (in my estimation), it makes sense that it can arise, simply from the fact that repeated stress (intentional or not) makes things harder to pull things back together.

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## Anymage

> I do not know where you come from of course, but i do guess from the North American Continent. Therefore, any contact you could find from the above link would be far away, so hopefully non-threatening, and still be competent - and also, because of your distance to them, more likely to seriously look for examples from their experience for you.


On the one hand, her issue was theraputic malpractice.  I see nothing on your link that acknowledges anything of the sort.

On the other hand, some form of net based therapy might actually come in handy here.  It has fewer of the typical therapy trappings, and there's a lot less immediate, face-to-face pressure.

(Incidentally, googling "therapy malpractice" does get some hits at least acknowledging that it's a thing.  The bulk of the first page is lawyers, so I don't know how productive an avenue that would be.)

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## Chen

> Honestly I even wish I could find information on trauma caused by treatment.  You basically can't search for it because the results get flooded by stuff talking about trauma treatment in general.
> 
> I'd feel a lot better if there weren't such stigma to not benefitting from therapy.


There are a number of academic articles from Google scholar (https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl...otherapy&btnG=). Most require a journal subscription but if you have access to a university library you may be able to find some there.

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## Jon_Dahl

More things to worry about... I've just heard that I've been hired to teach English as a 1st language to children and adolescents, but the thing is that English isn't my first language. I feel uncomfortable with this.

Let me ask you question: So your first language is English. You live in another country and your children receive tuition in English from a teacher whose first language is not English. How would you feel about this? I want to understand beforehand how much of a problem this situation will be for the parents, so your answers might give me some insight.

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## FinnLassie

> More things to worry about... I've just heard that I've been hired to teach English as a 1st language to children and adolescents, but the thing is that English isn't my first language. I feel uncomfortable with this.
> 
> Let me ask you question: So your first language is English. You live in another country and your children receive tuition in English from a teacher whose first language is not English. How would you feel about this? I want to understand beforehand how much of a problem this situation will be for the parents, so your answers might give me some insight.


Answering as another Finn, but:

You'll be teaching them technicalities and grammar first and foremost, turst me, native speakers can be utterly hopeless with those things when it comes to any language. In fact, you could actually make it part of a lesson plan, discussing the fact that you indeed do not speak English as a first language, yet there you are. That's what I did when I did BEd Primary Teaching in Scotland, sadly it seems like I've deleted my related lesson plans after quitting... I would've shared them otherwise, dang it (it's 5 years since I last opened them anyways  :Small Eek: ).

The school trusts you enough, they hired you. Go get it.

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## Honest Tiefling

> Let me ask you question: So your first language is English. You live in another country and your children receive tuition in English from a teacher whose first language is not English. How would you feel about this? I want to understand beforehand how much of a problem this situation will be for the parents, so your answers might give me some insight.


Would it help to focus on the strengths of having another person whose first language is NOT English. I'm not sure if England or other English speaking countries are very good at this, but in America there's an odd situation where ESL (English as a Second Language) students get more instruction on English grammar and technical bits than the people who speak it as a first language. For instance, I was never taught what the names of verb tenses were, except in Spanish class. You probably know about English grammar than I do!

And honestly, in our interactions together your English could pass as a native speaker. Even if the kiddos are 14ish and needing to write essays in English, your English is fine.

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## WarKitty

> And when you think about it, that's bizarre.  There are aspects of medicine that are much more concrete than human experiences that do not have "The One" treatment to fix things.  And (in my estimation), it makes sense that it can arise, simply from the fact that repeated stress (intentional or not) makes things harder to pull things back together.


Any yet I've found it incredibly common, even among therapists.  If it doesn't go their way, it's because you're not trying or you're not being cooperative enough or something.  And heaven help you if you _ever_ mention more than having 2 or 3 therapists in any form of mental health support group, or say that you experienced negative effects from therapy.  You'll immediately be piled on with people telling you that therapy is hard and you have to work at it and you must not really want to get better.

The absolute best reaction I've seen, out of 8 different therapists, was acknowledging that what that one guy did was very wrong but then being confused by why I would be anxious and guarded in the session.  Immediately challenging me to demonstrate that his behavior was actually problematic isn't uncommon.  I'd say the most common is just sort of treating it as some bad experience off to the side with a therapist I didn't click with but that isn't really relevant to anything.

I do need help, but what I've gotten from the mental health system over the years isn't _help_.  And I don't know where to turn.

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## Honest Tiefling

Uh...Maybe religious counselling WOULD be better at this rate. If there are none of your particular religion in your area, maybe someone is willing to speak over the net? I mean, you can have religious groups scattered across the globe, I would think someone has figured out how to use the internet.

I think a lot of therapists are going to treat therapy as the go-to because its what they trained in. Either they are well-meaning and just want to find that magical method to get you to realize it WILL work because they just want to help you so badly and just keep beating that dead horse. Others are likely offended that their training and knowledge isn't working, and think that the problem is you. It's the culture they have been steeped in for so long, so it might be hard to them to break out of that mentality, if they even want to.

Perhaps a non-professional would be better? Distant relative, friend, or hell, just find a mentor in school?

And back to Jon_Dahl, I think I had an English teacher in America teaching kids who primary (and only) language was English despite it being his second language, I think. So no, not really a concern.

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## WarKitty

My religion tends to take (sensibly, in most cases) the view that it's inappropriate for pastoral counseling to be used in mental health cases, and that such cases should be referred to a professional therapist.  Possibly one who is a member of the faith, but nevertheless someone whose primary training is in mental health.

Part of the problem as well - from the reading I've done, I have more of the ruminating side of things.  The trouble with that side is that just "talking it over" without concrete solutions for handling fear and moving forward actually tends to make things worse.  Venting is counterproductive because it just increases the intensity of emotional reactions without a real way to handle them.

I have definitely gotten the sense with a few that there was a sort of personal defensiveness going on?  Like therapists who would go slowly on a report of abuse from a parent or an ex, would jump right in to push hard on a report of abuse by a prior therapist.  Or they'd act like my being nervous and cautious around them was a personal affront - it sort of felt like if I told a friend about being harassed by a man and their first response was "not all men are like that."  It's true, but extremely unhelpful at that point.

I'd actually be more comfortable with a therapist if they didn't put on such an explicitly unbiased front.  Statements like "you'll never make me upset" aren't reassuring, because I know they're not true.  They just make me think that the therapist isn't able to recognize and handle their own feelings, and that it's more likely to be pushed on me.

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## Honest Tiefling

> My religion tends to take (sensibly, in most cases) the view that it's inappropriate for pastoral counseling to be used in mental health cases, and that such cases should be referred to a professional therapist.  Possibly one who is a member of the faith, but nevertheless someone whose primary training is in mental health.


Huh. That seems pretty sensible in many cases. Well, I don't want to judge your religion, but do they have access to recommendations for mental health experts that don't suck? Advice on how to get help?

Therapists are often trained to unpack emotions and to help people work on emotions, which might be unhelpful to you. Maybe try to find not someone who is a therapist, but more like a life coach or someone who helps train life skills (like navigating difficult social situations) might be a good place to start? I mean, the therapists dropped the ball, might as well go elsewhere.

Heck, at this point, I wonder if reading some books might not be a bad idea, if you can find a place to get some recommendations on your particular situation.

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## lex109

> Flowers, chocolate, and a note that says that you were thinking of her.  Bonus points for having it delivered at her place of work.


Bonus points would depend entirely on the person.  I wouldn't mind flowers, etc. at home but I would be absolutely mortified if my SO sent anything of the sort to my place of work.  There are also people that would find it incredibly romantic and charming, so it goes down to knowing the person you're buying for.

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## lex109

> I have definitely gotten the sense with a few that there was a sort of personal defensiveness going on?  Like therapists who would go slowly on a report of abuse from a parent or an ex, would jump right in to push hard on a report of abuse by a prior therapist.  Or they'd act like my being nervous and cautious around them was a personal affront - it sort of felt like if I told a friend about being harassed by a man and their first response was "not all men are like that."  It's true, but extremely unhelpful at that point.
> 
> I'd actually be more comfortable with a therapist if they didn't put on such an explicitly unbiased front.  Statements like "you'll never make me upset" aren't reassuring, because I know they're not true.  They just make me think that the therapist isn't able to recognize and handle their own feelings, and that it's more likely to be pushed on me.


One of the tricks to mental health treatment / therapy (and this comes from someone that went through six different therapists before finding a good fit) is finding the right person.  Just like a PCP or a spouse or a best friend, not everyone fits with everyone else. Some are great, some are okay, and some are absolute ****.  But even the great ones sometimes have such specific styles that they may not be a universally great fit.  Try scheduling "interview" appointments where you sit down with the therapist and try to get a sense of whether they are going to be a good fit.  Do this with as many therapists as you can based on the resources that you have available to you.  This isn't a time to start actually delving into any of your issues, but it is a change for you to ask the therapist what their specialty is, how they approach things in therapy, and generally get a feel for them.  If they balk at you wanting to know more information about how they work, at you being nervous or uncomfortable, or if they try to pressure you into anything they are not a good therapist for you!!!

Also, while therapists are humans and they do have feelings it's actually part of their job to set their feelings aside in order to assist you in sorting out yours.  The whole "you can't make me upset" (from a good therapist) is more about trying to give you the freedom of expression that is integral to the therapeutic process than it is about their feelings at all.

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## WarKitty

See the thing for me is...bad therapy is horribly debilitating.  Like "take someone from mostly functional to can't get out of bed" type level.  I am literally having flashbacks a decade later to therapy.  It felt _worse_ than the abusive boyfriend I had.  The nightmares I wake up to were created in therapy.

And every single one I've had issues with will say the right things up front.  It's that once you're in you see that it's often not as true - like the therapist may insist that they're keeping their feelings out, but then make a face at a certain disclosure.  Or suddenly become very aggressive with their line of questioning.  But it just gets pushed onto you instead.

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## darkrose50

> Bonus points would depend entirely on the person.  I wouldn't mind flowers, etc. at home but I would be absolutely mortified if my SO sent anything of the sort to my place of work.  There are also people that would find it incredibly romantic and charming, so it goes down to knowing the person you're buying for.


In general part of the practice is to make the male look more appealing in front of those who could sway the girl's opinion of the guy (and a large component on why they can charge so much for delivering flowers).  If enough of the girls co-workers say things like "<I wish my guy would send me flowers>" . . . the more bonus points generally are gained.  It would seem that flower industry earns quite a bit from this set-up.

Those are traditional options.  Essentially part of our public and privet mating rituals involve the male proving to the female that he is thinking of her, and that she is worth sacrificing resources (time and money) on.  This is one reason why pretty rocks can be so expensive (they are not commodities, and one almost always cannot sell them for what they bought them for . . . it is a sacrifice of wealth).  We are not really that different than the penguin guys bringing the penguin gals a rock (sacrificing time that could be spent getting fish, and perhaps get eaten by something while picking out a rock).

Sure the gal getting the guy equivalent might be something to do with sports or alcohol/beer.  I would not much like sports stuff, but if my wife early on when dating bought me something sports related, then I would think it funny.  A beer of the month might as well be funny . . . until she learned that I do not drink alcohol/beer.

But chocolate . . . not many people would be angry at chocolate.  It may take a few times to get the right brand and mixture, but an assortment of all the differing types from a quality brand would be the way to go, if you did not know if she liked dark, milk, white, or whatnot.  

American milk chocolate, I think, is usually not to my preferences, as it does not contain enough coco.  I may be a little miffed if someone kept buying me Hershey's chocolate . . . after I told them that it does not contain the level of coco that I prefer . . . you may as well be buying me sugar flavored wax.




> See the thing for me is...bad therapy is horribly debilitating.  Like "take someone from mostly functional to can't get out of bed" type level.  I am literally having flashbacks a decade later to therapy.  It felt _worse_ than the abusive boyfriend I had.  The nightmares I wake up to were created in therapy.
> 
> And every single one I've had issues with will say the right things up front.  It's that once you're in you see that it's often not as true - like the therapist may insist that they're keeping their feelings out, but then make a face at a certain disclosure.  Or suddenly become very aggressive with their line of questioning.  But it just gets pushed onto you instead.


I have learned the hard way that not all experts are qualified enough, and not all experts fit my communication needs.  I have had HORRABLE doctors, and I have had HORRABLE dentists.  

Some are simply horrible, and some are just not a good fit.  It is like a relationship.  Some folks out there are wonderful, but are just not for you.

One indicator (some correlation and some causation) of a good doctor or dentist is that they do not take HMOs/EPOs.  Essentially PPOs pay more, and when a good doctor or dentist gets too many patents from being a rock star, then they cut the least profitable patients (because money).  So if you have an HMOs/EPOs you might be sent to a doctor needing patients, and the reason why they might need patients is because they may be horrible.  I have found really good doctors on my HMO medical plan, and a really good dentist on my non-PPO dental plan.

I was able to find a good doctor and a good dentist.  I now understand why some people do not want to give up there doctor or dentist.

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## Honest Tiefling

> In general part of the practice is to make the male look more appealing in front of those who could sway the girl's opinion of the guy (and a large component on why they can charge so much for delivering flowers).  If enough of the girls co-workers say things like "<I wish my guy would send me flowers>" . . . the more bonus points generally are gained.  It would seem that flower industry earns quite a bit from this set-up.


I don't even WANT my husband to buy me flowers. He doesn't know which are which and I think he might be slightly colorblind. He's the love of my life but I think he might be a bit useless around plants. 

Also, if you get chocolates in an office setting, someone is likely to either steal or beg for them, despite the occasion. And you have to wrestle the plants home, which could be difficult.




> Sure the gal getting the guy equivalent might be something to do with sports or alcohol/beer.  I would not much like sports stuff, but if my wife early on when dating bought me something sports related, then I would think it funny.  A beer of the month might as well be funny . . . until she learned that I do not drink alcohol/beer.


Uhhhh...Is asking out of the question? I think at the point you are getting gifts, you should be able to know a few interests? Maybe just ask?




> But chocolate . . . not many people would be angry at chocolate.


But again, in an office it could be easily stolen or people 'helped themselves' without thinking. Or demanded you share. Or get upset that YOU got flowers and they didn't. Or just start asking a lot of questions. Because not everyone likes super public displays of affection. It's so common I wouldn't advise it unless you knew the other person liked it, else you're going to make them angrier.

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## Jon_Dahl

Thank you for the support, friends. Unless I find another job, I will start to teach my pupils in August. I will keep you updated, although perhaps not in this thread. I will post the news on the appropriate thread.

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## Algeh

> I don't even WANT my husband to buy me flowers. He doesn't know which are which and I think he might be slightly colorblind. He's the love of my life but I think he might be a bit useless around plants.


I once had a then-SO buy me a jade plant because he knew I was allergic to some kinds of flowers, but also had absolutely no idea which ones so settled on "definitely not a flower, but still a plant." (This is not why we broke up.)

ION, my mom had to have her dog put down today. She was an old dog, and it was probably time, but I am still a mess. Tonight is for drinking, tomorrow is for a wider variety of non-booze-based coping skills. I am going to miss that dog (she was a very good dog).

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## Honest Tiefling

> I once had a then-SO buy me a jade plant because he knew I was allergic to some kinds of flowers, but also had absolutely no idea which ones so settled on "definitely not a flower, but still a plant." (This is not why we broke up.)


Guessing he didn't know that those CAN flower in the right conditions?




> ION, my mom had to have her dog put down today. She was an old dog, and it was probably time, but I am still a mess. Tonight is for drinking, tomorrow is for a wider variety of non-booze-based coping skills. I am going to miss that dog (she was a very good dog).


I'm very sorry to hear this. It's never easy, so take the time you need, but always remember: The dog loved your family, and had a happy time with you. You did your best.

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## Lissou

> I once had a then-SO buy me a jade plant because he knew I was allergic to some kinds of flowers, but also had absolutely no idea which ones so settled on "definitely not a flower, but still a plant." (This is not why we broke up.)
> 
> ION, my mom had to have her dog put down today. She was an old dog, and it was probably time, but I am still a mess. Tonight is for drinking, tomorrow is for a wider variety of non-booze-based coping skills. I am going to miss that dog (she was a very good dog).


Oh no. I'm so sorry for your loss. It's always so sad to say goodbye to our four-legged family members, even when we know it's inevitable. Big hugs if you would like them.

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## darkrose50

> More things to worry about... I've just heard that I've been hired to teach English as a 1st language to children and adolescents, but the thing is that English isn't my first language. I feel uncomfortable with this.
> 
> Let me ask you question: So your first language is English. You live in another country and your children receive tuition in English from a teacher whose first language is not English. How would you feel about this? I want to understand beforehand how much of a problem this situation will be for the parents, so your answers might give me some insight.


Sometimes it is better to learn from someone who struggled to learn something.  People that do not struggle with a topic sometimes do not have the experience to explain the topic.  One cannot just "do the thing", one must see the potential points of difficulty, separate the concept into component parts, put the needed steps to learn those parts to words, and know how to address the steps in an learning environment.

Show me two teachers.  One that from the first moment the concept was presented she saw it as one idea, and effortlessly conceptualized the whole.  Then show me a teacher that needed to study the concept and build the hole out of many parts.  The one that sees a concept as a whole can be a disadvantage teaching the concept to beginners.  To learn a new concept I would pick the teacher that had to learn the bits-and-pieces slowly to put it all together.  Perhaps the other teacher would be likely a better fit for advanced students.

This reminds me of the YouTube videos where the narrator goes into excruciating detail over what something is, and what something is not.  For example, it drove me crazy to hear a 3-5 minute explanation of what an orphan is, and what an orphan is not.  For a non-native, younger, or mentally-disadvantaged English language speaker it could be just what they need to get the concept.  Generally I go nuts and just want to hear the story about the topic, without excoriatingly detailed conceptual building blocks of words people likely know when they are in the 3rd grade.

I was watching a religious video teaching the supernatural history of popular story trope.  All of the verbal rituals breaking up the explanation of the story slowed down the telling of the story considerably.  I am sure for a native of the religion it would not have been so very distracting to be interrupted so often.  If teaching a non-native of the religion, then I would perhaps lighten up on all of the verbal rituals, for example.  Something invisible, becomes visible, and perhaps distracting to a non-native.

-----




> I don't even WANT my husband to buy me flowers. He doesn't know which are which and I think he might be slightly colorblind. He's the love of my life but I think he might be a bit useless around plants.


Usually flowers and such are part of the courtship ritual to attract a mate.  He has already swayed your opinion of him for you to date him.  Your co-workers liking the fact that he sent you flowers would have less impact on your opinion of him.  The goal is for the guy to use peer-pressure to manipulate the opinion that the girl has of him so that they could obtain a first or subsequent date early in the relationship.  I know . . . what a romantic I am.




> Also, if you get chocolates in an office setting, someone is likely to either steal or beg for them, despite the occasion. And you have to wrestle the plants home, which could be difficult.


Some people find sharing to be more enjoyable for some reason.  It would also up the peer-pressure and talking about the guy.  "Wow these are good, who sent them to you?" might be exactly the response that would be needed to secure a better opinion, possibly one to get the guy that first or subsequent date.  It is all seemingly about manipulation.  It kind of seems creepy, but that is the ritual that we have.




> Uhhhh...Is asking out of the question? I think at the point you are getting gifts, you should be able to know a few interests? Maybe just ask?


Early on people don't.




> But again, in an office it could be easily stolen or people 'helped themselves' without thinking. Or demanded you share. Or get upset that YOU got flowers and they didn't. Or just start asking a lot of questions. Because not everyone likes super public displays of affection. It's so common I wouldn't advise it unless you knew the other person liked it, else you're going to make them angrier.


That seems to be the point.  Public (and privet) displays of wealth sacrifice to encourage the girl to agree to date the guy.  I already said it, it seems kind of creepy to me when I break it down, but that is the ritual that we have.  It is like a PR campaign.  It must work.

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## HalfTangible

> ION, my mom had to have her dog put down today. She was an old dog, and it was probably time, but I am still a mess. Tonight is for drinking, tomorrow is for a wider variety of non-booze-based coping skills. I am going to miss that dog (she was a very good dog).


Sorry for your loss. I still miss all three of our fam's dogs. My mom's especially; we had to put him down while he was still young. (lymphoma) The other two, at least, we knew were coming.

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## FinnLassie

I hate that I'm being pushed to attend trauma therapy, but the whole process towards that will be a damn hustle on its own. Closest trauma therapists are like 40km away, they cost a lot even with the social security system covering most of it, transport there and pack will add up... on top of that, the therapists might not have any open slots for new clients for months. Then, you need to go for an assessment appointment or two, and those assessments to see if you're fit to become their client, you have to pay the full amount. Social security pays zilch. Oh, and it might take even 3 months to get an assessment. Then another month, two or three to start the actual therapy.

I'm not ready for this hustle.

And I most definitely do not want my dad's wife to be my therapist, no matter how much my dad thinks it's a good idea. (I've talked through this thing with both of them, the wife is more like, eh if you want to I don't mind, but ofc it'll be awkward, and dad is like HEY BONDING EXPERIENCE dad please you don't understand)

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## Mith

> I hate that I'm being pushed to attend trauma therapy, but the whole process towards that will be a damn hustle on its own. Closest trauma therapists are like 40km away, they cost a lot even with the social security system covering most of it, transport there and pack will add up... on top of that, the therapists might not have any open slots for new clients for months. Then, you need to go for an assessment appointment or two, and those assessments to see if you're fit to become their client, you have to pay the full amount. Social security pays zilch. Oh, and it might take even 3 months to get an assessment. Then another month, two or three to start the actual therapy.
> 
> I'm not ready for this hustle.
> 
> And I most definitely do not want my dad's wife to be my therapist, no matter how much my dad thinks it's a good idea. (I've talked through this thing with both of them, the wife is more like, eh if you want to I don't mind, but ofc it'll be awkward, and dad is like HEY BONDING EXPERIENCE dad please you don't understand)


Am I crazy, or isn't there a whole point of ethics with Therapy being explicitly _not_ a bonding experience?

And while I have been blessed to not have the issue in my life, through other people I know, I sympathise with the hustle that is the medical process.

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## Honest Tiefling

> That seems to be the point.  Public (and privet) displays of wealth sacrifice to encourage the girl to agree to date the guy.  I already said it, it seems kind of creepy to me when I break it down, but that is the ritual that we have.  It is like a PR campaign.  It must work.


Expecting someone to share  precious chocolate with pushy coworkers isn't going to convince many women to date nowadays, I think. I believe it would only lead to fighting, frustration and possibly even some biting.

Through if I ever needed to sabotage a workplace, now I have some ideas.




> Am I crazy, or isn't there a whole point of ethics with Therapy being explicitly _not_ a bonding experience?


Kinda? I mean, if it works for you, it works for you, but some prefer a more professional relationship. But you start as strangers and work from there. But an actual professional therapist would NEVER treat their own family. I'm surprised that isn't a professional breach of etiquette. I would stay far away from any chats regarding your dad's wife work.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Ok, tonight I have to block on another mentally unstable friend on Facebook Messenger who's female by the way. She's been talking about her problems and she thinks I'm some kind of miracle worker which I'm not. Then tonight she's talking to me on Facebook Messenger thinking that she wants to kill herself. I told her don't do It and then she continues to complain. This was the last straw for me so I block her permanently because I just can't deal with her problems anymore.

----------


## WarKitty

> And I most definitely do not want my dad's wife to be my therapist, no matter how much my dad thinks it's a good idea. (I've talked through this thing with both of them, the wife is more like, eh if you want to I don't mind, but ofc it'll be awkward, and dad is like HEY BONDING EXPERIENCE dad please you don't understand)


No, no, no, no, and no.  Over here that would be considered a _very serious_ breach of professional ethics.  I can't imagine it's all that different over there.  Therapy and family relationships do not mix.

----------


## [email protected]

That moment when you come back to the forum after a long hiatus.

No posts on your first thread.

You end up losing an almost 3 pages long post with pictures and video references after your log-in refreshed and your draft was not saved for some reason and you lose everything.  :Small Frown:

----------


## FinnLassie

Re: regarding having my dad's wife as a therapist - no it's never gonna happen. I know for a fact that it's a bad idea, so does dad's wife, I don't need repeating reminders of that. Dad's just a doofus that isn't exactly working on his best brain when it comes to my mental health and my (previously extremely rocky) relationship with his wife. I don't want any further comments on this.

----------


## Tvtyrant

So I have had a truly awful few weeks, it has kind of upended my life.

*Spoiler: Long Rant*
Show

My best friend of the last decade moved to Washington to be with his girlfriend (with my blessing and honestly pushing.)


*Spoiler: Warning: Dead Dog Story*
Show


Then my girlfriend called me to tell me her roommates dog had passed away and they needed help burying it. So I dropped my day and came over. The roommate drove off after telling me where she wanted it buried and came back once the deed was done.

My girlfriend and her roommate are very nearly incapable of physical labor due to disabilities, so I knew I was going to do most of it myself. What I didn't know is that the Great Pyrenees had not died that day, or even the day before. It was rotting and being 150 pounds I had to dig a big grave for it. So I hauled its rotting body out of its kennel and across the farm to where it was going to be buried (all in the rain) and got done in time for the roommate to come back. The smell was so bad neither of them could come close to it without puking, so even more for me.



Then friday my phone fell down a two story staircase and shattered on my way to watch my parent's house while they went on vacation. I got there and set up, my girlfriend was supposed to stay there with me as it was our anniversary.

She was sick for three days while I cared for her, then on the last day (4th of July) she informed me in the morning that she needed to go take care of her roommate who was "crying alone at home." So I drove her back to find that the roommate was not actually there, so my reservations for the day were dropped for no reason, and my girlfriend went to take a nap.

In the entire time we dated her roommate had only failed to insert herself into our time together twice, both times when I had taken my girlfriend out of town and the roommate could not physically get involved. This had been a major source of friction between us, and at this point I was basically nuclear.

There were larger issues with the relationship that I had been pushing down. My girlfriend only ever liked half of me, and spent a lot of the relationship trying to curb the other part. I had to be soothing, quiet, and none-confrontational or it would make her worried I was going to leave the relationship. Being physically active, or the slightest bit excited or competitive, made her nervous. Being told to calm down and be quite constantly was grating, I had to watch everything I said or did to avoid tripping that line. 

Any disagreement I made was either met with tears or sarcastic deflection, and eventually I had just checked out to prevent friction. This literally ranged the full spectrum of Marvel movie criticisms to feminism, and the slow removal of channels to communicate made me unaware how far it had gone. Since my girlfriend is sickly I spent much of our relationship performing chores and responding to disappointed requests (like spending time together outside her house or any activity but sitting on a couch) with "its okay, don't worry." 

So when I found out that my girlfriend was once again ditching me to console her roommate I just kind of froze up. I drove her home, drove back to my parents and sat there feeling broken. Two days later I had worked out where things had fallen apart, and I drove back to her house to break up. I have never dumped someone before, it surprisingly hurts more then the other way around. 

So now I am dating a gym for a while and try and regain my equilibrium.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

TvTyrant, **** your ex. That sounds like some emotional abuse, in that your ex was trying to guilt you regarding your hobbies and personality is a giant red flag to me. I'm sorry that it hurt you to break up with her, but she does not sound like she was good for you.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> TvTyrant, **** your ex. That sounds like some emotional abuse, in that your ex was trying to guilt you regarding your hobbies and personality is a giant red flag to me. I'm sorry that it hurt you to break up with her, but she does not sound like she was good for you.


I didn't help myself on the guilt front. She has a chronic disease and gained a lot if weight over our relationship (while I lost a lot), so anytime I was dissatisfied I felt guilty because what if I was just being shallow and lying to myself about it?

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> I didn't help myself on the guilt front. She has a chronic disease and gained a lot if weight over our relationship (while I lost a lot), so anytime I was dissatisfied I felt guilty because what if I was just being shallow and lying to myself about it?


So...She undermined not only your excitement for your hobbies, but undermined your own personal accomplishments? Which, if I recall correctly, are very much health based?

And really, even if you were less attracted to her...**** her anyway. She was clearly using you. She doesn't care about you as a person, as any disagreement from her views was something to be attacked or dismissed, not tolerated, explored or even admired. That's not how a relationship works.

And let me guess, she made you pay a lot of the time? Just a stab in the dark here.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> So...She undermined not only your excitement for your hobbies, but undermined your own personal accomplishments? Which, if I recall correctly, are very much health based?
> 
> And really, even if you were less attracted to her...**** her anyway. She was clearly using you. She doesn't care about you as a person, as any disagreement from her views was something to be attacked or dismissed, not tolerated, explored or even admired. That's not how a relationship works.
> 
> And let me guess, she made you pay a lot of the time? Just a stab in the dark here.


Not above 100% of the time.

I'm going to need to think about this. I have been terrified this is a childish overreaction.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

Please don't reconsider getting with this woman. She seems to treat you as labor, not as a person with their own ideas. She guilted you for doing basic human things like expressing yourself and your own opinions. Don't ever date someone who doesn't like to see you be excited and enjoy yourself. Don't ever date anyone who puts you down.

Ask yourself, would you tolerate this behavior if she wasn't disabled? She seems (maybe even unintentionally) to be using guilt as a weapon against you. And if you got back together with her because of guilt, is that really healthy for either one of you?

Again, please do NOT get back together with this woman. 

Also, my money is on her cheating on you with roomie. Might want to get a STI test, just saying.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Please don't reconsider getting with this woman. She seems to treat you as labor, not as a person with their own ideas. She guilted you for doing basic human things like expressing yourself and your own opinions. Don't ever date someone who doesn't like to see you be excited and enjoy yourself. Don't ever date anyone who puts you down.
> 
> Ask yourself, would you tolerate this behavior if she wasn't disabled? She seems (maybe even unintentionally) to be using guilt as a weapon against you. And if you got back together with her because of guilt, is that really healthy for either one of you?
> 
> Again, please do NOT get back together with this woman. 
> 
> Also, my money is on her cheating on you with roomie. Might want to get a STI test, just saying.


Don't worry, this relationship is well and truly over. I'm not jumping back in, I just might have been flagellating myself for wanting to be out for no reason.

I'll see about scraping the $50 for an STD check. Always good to have a clean bill at the end of a relationship regardless.

----------


## Comrade

Sorry to hear things panned out that way, Tvtyrant-- though I have to say, I'm with Honest Tiefling, sounds like you're better off out of that relationship even if it doesn't feel that way just now.

----------


## NRSASD

@TvTyrant- Listen to Honest Tiefling. She's honest, after all.
Seriously though, you are well rid of that person. A good friend of ours left an emotionally abusive relationship, and your description is spookily similar to hers. Just stand clear, sort yourself out, and figure out who you are again.

----------


## ve4grm

> Not above 100% of the time.
> 
> I'm going to need to think about this. I have been terrified this is a childish overreaction.


I don't know enough to claim that it was emotional abuse, but it definitely seems like it was unhealthy for you and that she wasn't the right person for you anyways. You don't seem to have overreacted one bit.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Sorry to hear things panned out that way, Tvtyrant-- though I have to say, I'm with Honest Tiefling, sounds like you're better off out of that relationship even if it doesn't feel that way just now.





> @TvTyrant- Listen to Honest Tiefling. She's honest, after all.
> Seriously though, you are well rid of that person. A good friend of ours left an emotionally abusive relationship, and your description is spookily similar to hers. Just stand clear, sort yourself out, and figure out who you are again.





> I don't know enough to claim that it was emotional abuse, but it definitely seems like it was unhealthy for you and that she wasn't the right person for you anyways. You don't seem to have overreacted one bit.


I'm feeling somewhat better about it now. The sense of relief is pretty strong at this point, which is a welcome reprieve from the feeling of guilt.

----------


## messy1349

I realize there's a conversation in progress, but here's a follow-up on this.

Under the circumstances, things are generally stable. I'm working with my therapist and the nasty thoughts are lessening.

No replies to my post, but to anyone who read it, thank you.

----------


## Comrade

> Under the circumstances, things are generally stable. I'm working with my therapist and the nasty thoughts are lessening.


Glad to hear things are going better.

On my end... About a month ago I applied for a job. Learned about the job in the first place from an acquaintance who works in the office I'd applied to, who encouraged me to apply before the job had even been publicly posted. I took a week to try and really hammer everything out-- I got help from a colleague at the office I currently intern at, who used to work in the office I was applying to, and he helped me polish up my cover letter and resume. Also gave me some really handy tips about the office I was applying to and how to best present myself to them. I figured, hey, I was encouraged to apply by somebody in that office, I got help applying from somebody who used to work in that office, my cover letter and resume are strong, I have plenty of internship experience in this line of work and even some paid experience in a related field, I have an associate's degree, the only thing that could possibly trip me up here is my lack of a Bachelor's degree. I was banking on the hope that all that other stuff would outweigh that.

I haven't heard back from them since, and maybe I'm just prematurely jumping to conclusions, but I have a feeling I won't, considering how things worked out the last time I applied for a job where every possible factor seemed to be in my favor. It sucks, because I really need a job, and I was really hoping I could finally get steady, paid work in this field, no matter how menial or low-paying. Yeah, I could just go back to working retail or something, which I'll probably have to do if things keep on this way, but I just had this hope that after a combined one and a half years of internship experience, building connections, and putting myself out there, I could break through and nab at least a part-time paid position. But it seems more and more like a paid position in this field won't be an option until I get my BA, and that's liable to be two years out-- by which time I'll be 26 years old.

Just can't help feeling frustrated that even when I put my best foot forward and everything seems to be in my favor, I just can't make the leap from unpaid internship to paid work in the field.

----------


## WarKitty

I don't know what to do anymore.

I'm waking up basically every morning to nightmares about therapy.  Not just that one time with the guy with no ethics, but the times I spent with therapists that meant well.  I need help, I need something beyond just a place to vent.  But I don't know where to turn.  I feel like therapy isn't the right place to discuss how horrifyingly traumatic therapy has been for me and how to get past that.  But no one has any suggestions or help past "maybe more therapy?"

----------


## darkrose50

> I don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> I'm waking up basically every morning to nightmares about therapy.  Not just that one time with the guy with no ethics, but the times I spent with therapists that meant well.  I need help, I need something beyond just a place to vent.  But I don't know where to turn.  I feel like therapy isn't the right place to discuss how horrifyingly traumatic therapy has been for me and how to get past that.  But no one has any suggestions or help past "maybe more therapy?"


Take it one step at a time.  Take victory in the small things.  Make a plan, and follow it.  

Find a new therapist, it might take you a while to find a good-enough one.  Talk it over with trusted friends and family.  Perhaps you can get a recommendation for a good therapist.  Talk to a religious figure . . . some of them are wise, and some of them have the proper degree.  Sometimes one is just good at helping people, and often these folks are religious leaders.

I have had horrible doctors and dentists.  Doctors that did not know what they were talking about, and a dentist that really messed up some of my teeth.  Some are not a good fit, others are just inexperienced, and some are outright bad.

I have Asperger's Ssyndrome, and it benefits me to talk with someone about how my brain is wired differently.  It can be stressful to have most people actually think differently than I do.  My brain is WAY over on the logical side of things (across from the feeling side of things).  People who make decisions based on feelings, or reading body language can be scared of me, or think that I am up to no good.  This can cause a stressful problem every year or two.  Seriously people who navigate life based on 100% feelings, and people who navigate there life based 100% on logic . . . we can really annoy each other.  What we think is right and just, or how to go about solving an issue, can be totally different.

One thing that I learned that helps keep me grounded is "how to tell a good story."  The whole trust, but verify thing.  Meaning to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, but do not let people take advantage of you.  Even then there was a pastor who would answer the question of people taking advantage of him, and his response was that he gave it away.  The trust, but verify thing used to sound crazy to me, but I was looking at it from another angle.  If I can look into something, then I can, but if I don't, then I try not to have it ruin my day by thinking of a good story to tell myself.  It is almost always not helpful to assume the negative about an intent that you cannot verify.  Most of the time people are not trying to be jerks.

If someone is speeding, and cuts me off, I like to tell myself "I bet that person must have to go to the bathroom very badly."  Coming up with negative conclusions about someone's actions really does not help most of the time.  This has really helped my outlook on life.  Feeding negative thoughts in a circle is not helpful.

My dad is a retired police officer, and he let a speeder go once (at least) because he had to go to the bathroom very badly.

I was part of a study for a mortgage company.  They paid me $150 to figure out what they could do to keep more customers.  I REALLY seemed to piss off the proctor by telling him that I pick my mortgage company based on math.  They were trying to figure out how they could keep people happy with calls, birthday-cards, and other things other than math.  The concept is baffling to me.  I refinanced my mortgage every time rates dropped, and I could make a profit.  My relationship with the bank was an afterthought.

I am an insurance agent and it absolutely baffles me why I need to mention that folks can save money on things like Jenny Craig . . . I have never talked to anyone who would pick out a healthcare plan based on such a discount.  The notion is over-the-top illogical.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> I'm waking up basically every morning to nightmares about therapy.  Not just that one time with the guy with no ethics, but the times I spent with therapists that meant well.  I need help, I need something beyond just a place to vent.  But I don't know where to turn.  I feel like therapy isn't the right place to discuss how horrifyingly traumatic therapy has been for me and how to get past that.  But no one has any suggestions or help past "maybe more therapy?"


What kind of help are you looking for? The reason therapy is brought up is because therapists are licensed professionals trained to deal with trauma. 

There are lots of none-licensed approaches (often religious) like priests, shamans, hypnosis, etc. Or pick up self-help and psychology books and try and do it yourself if having other people involved is too traumatic.

----------


## Lettuce

Warkitty:  I have a few ideas about how to possibly make a future therapy experience less terrible if you decide to go down that road again, as well as a few ideas of other things you might try to help alleviate some of this.  If you're at the point where you really don't even want to think about the first right now, then feel entirely free to ignore the first stuff and skip to the last five paragraphs in the post.

Also, if it helps?  I don't know specifically what you've been through (I've only read the posts in this topic-- nothing earlier), but I was abused by my school guidance councilor in secondary school.  Your guy isn't the only bad actor out there.  This IS a thing.  

My PM box is open if I can do anything, anything at all to help you.  Hugs (if appreciated).

- - - 

Earlier, you talked about the main problem with therapy being the power imbalance, and the very real ability these people have to mess up your life.  So a lot of the following ideas are about how you might try to reduce or mitigate that influence.

I know that there are therapists who are willing to meet in a different setting than their office, so you don't feel like you're walking into someone's domain where they have total control-- and perhaps often containing certain trappings that are similar to the environment where your trauma took place.  I'm not sure if you can arrange to meet in a public area if requested (given they have to follow guidelines about patient confidentiality), but I know that house calls are a thing, and a lot of people also offer online sessions... 

...which might be especially useful, based on your earlier exchange with Honest Tiefling where you expressed that no one you trust is in range to actually go into an office with you.  I agree that a video conference call might be a viable solution to that.  I don't know if it would be possible to give this person-you-trust 'custody' of medical decisions, so a bad-acting therapist can't use the weight of their own diagnosis in such a hard-hitting and oversight-absent way, but if you can give your 'rights' to a person you trust rather than a stranger, that might go a long way towards shifting the power dynamic into something more comfortable.

Another thing that might help you feel more in control is (if you haven't already) to request copies of your medical records from both that abusive therapist and everyone afterwords.  You can highlight parts of them that a good therapist will see and realize are unfounded (like that one fellow in college you mentioned who diagnosed you with Borderline with 'you had a girlfriend' as major criteria-- and whatever 'reasoning' your abusive therapist provided as well).  By pointing out flaws that lead to the misdiagnosis, this will help your new therapist understand and discount those issues and come to their own decision.

This is a suggestion that in a perfect world shouldn't be necessary, but maybe it would help to go in with a specific written list of abusive stuff that your first therapist did that you can point to.  (Bonus points if you can get other people to corraborate any of it.)  And ideally, if you can lead the discussion with 'this person was my abuser', rather than 'this person was my therapist', that might help set the stage a little better and better enable them to leave those assumptions you mentioned at the door.  Because ultimately, the guy who preyed on you and others at your school was a predator and abuser.  His job enabled his abuse, but it didn't make him what he is.  The trappings of how he abused you are absolutely relevant, especially in the ways he had power over you, but if you can impress that the fundamental structure was abuser-and-victim, I think that will help your next therapist re-fame the situation in a way that's hopefully different and more productive in addressing the issues.

(Speaking of the ways he had power over you:  Even if there isn't a lot of literature about abusive therapists who get to terrorize you and force medical decisions on you, the power dynamics have a lot in common with the better studied dynamic of abusive parents.  Maybe there will be some material for the victims of similar types of child abuse that you can apply to your situation?)

I don't know if you live in America, but there are websites like this one that give you a list of therapists and their specialties.
If you ever decide to try therapy again, it seems smart to find someone who _specifically specialises_ in dealing with victims.  People who list both trauma and things like Narcissistic Victim (Abuse) Syndrome as the focus of their portfolio might be a good start, because they're used to hearing and understanding and supporting people who have been through abuse.  They're more likely than most to approach your situation with the understanding that you're a survivor, and see your symptoms for what they are-- because they see them every day in so many of their other clients.  At least on that website you can apparently also mention prospective employers and you can give a quick overview of the situation, and see how they respond so you can find someone who will take you respectfully from the start.  Ideally, you're looking for an ally who understands and believes you and is able to help counteract or overrule the misdiagnoses you were given earlier.

Because a good therapist should never be minimizing or invalidating your experiences.  They should be an ally, not an interrogator.  You shouldn't have to "prove" anything to them.  You went through something freakin' terrible, by gosh, you should be _believed_.  People don't pay hundreds of dollars to come in and tell an elaborate lie to a stranger, especially when that lie nets them no personal gain to tell.  Your experiences and feelings are valid.  They're important.  You are worth being listened to.  You deserve to be treated seriously.  You deserve to be believed.

I absolutely agree with your analysis in an earlier post in this thread that it's highly doubtful that the abusive therapist from your school did this to you and only you.  People who abuse others like this, especially when they have a position of power where they can 'get away with it', will have had many targets over the years.  You even seem to specifically know of some of them.  My suggestion is to try to reach out to those other survivors and form a support network with them.  How deeply he scarred them or managed to touch their lives may vary, but there's no question that you'll be believed, and they may also appreciate the support and validation they get from someone else who knows what was happening.  They might be able to share how they coped with everything, as well.

I don't know if you'd find it helpful to potentially reestablish control and reshape the narrative by trying to bring that jerk to justice, but between you all, you may have enough credible documentation of your side of the story to try to make a change.  If he's still in that school abusing people, his current crop of victims will make excellent allies.  If you manage to reach out to them, too, and get them to document things... even if the school won't listen, the local papers might.  The board that governs his credentials might.  Raise a stench on social media.  See if you can get anyone from the school newspaper or radio on board.  Raise it on forums where people are interested attending in the school.  Turn the guy into a problem.  And if there's public controversy about this guy and/or his licenses are revoked, then that will go a long way towards not only proving that you're not crazy and have been stuck with a misdiagnosis, but prove more broadly to the world at large that yes, this is a thing that can and does happen.  On the one hand embarking on that quest might be stressful; on the other hand, it might be empowering.  You'd have a better sense of how this would work for you than I, but it may be an option.  

In general, I'd suggest also focus doing more things in general to bolster yourself and assert control more broadly over other parts of your life, to help make confidence a general habit.  Do you have any dreams or passions you've been ignoring or put on a shelf?  What kinds of things do you enjoy, make you feel good?  Maybe you should commit to doing those positive things that you enjoy or make you feel fulfilled.  Do things that make you feel more 'you'.  At least for me, actually planning and scheduling time for the things I enjoy makes me feel in control of my day and gives me something to anticipate and look forward to and feel positive about.  It also can give you specific thing you can point to that you did or are going to be doing that are good in your life, which can help ground you when you feel overwhelmed or down.  Give yourself specific things to look forward to; give your brain things to dream about, so you're not stuck with only nightmares.  

Finally, this is something pretty different than all of the above.  I'm not sure if it was OotS or gaming in general or what that lead you to these forums, but I'm going to wager that you're at least passingly familiar with role-playing games.  Have you thought about using a tabletop game (possibly a one-on-one campaign set up with a GM you trust) to build a scenario that are in parts similar to elements of your trauma-- to whatever degree you feel okay with confronting-- to start to build new narratives and control related to those things?  It's kind of a weird idea, but I've actually ended up doing this (unintentionally in a game my GM set up, no less), and it has honestly really helped me work through and grapple with some ghosts in my past and reduce their hold on me.  Having a character who wasn't quite me enabled me to step back away if things felt too intense, and exploring a similar (but obviously fantasy) situation to what scarred me and conquering half-analogies to things in my past was empowering.  It's super weird to say that I'm healthier mentally from a game of PTU, but there it is.  Approached carefully, maybe something like that would be useful for you, too.

Seriously, I hope things get better, WarKitty.  You deserve it.

----------


## HalfTangible

Those of you who have been on the boards for for a while may remember that a few years ago, my bro's best friend (I called him Bill) got hit by a drunk driver. You may also recall that a couple months ago we went to a sentencing hearing that got cancelled because the defense lawyer was called into another county on a child sex case.

Well... the hearing was rescheduled for yesterday.

Yesterday was one of the worst days of my life (and considering the last couple of years include an uncle committing suicide, putting down 2 dogs, my mother losing the ability to walk for months, and a brain tumor, that's saying _a lot_)

Nothing prepares you to sit down at a sentencing hearing and listen to impact statements for a killed friend. His girlfriend kept crying throughout the entire hearing (partly because of survivor's guilt; his last act was to save her from the truck that hit him), my little brother still sounds like a broken man 3 years after the accident, the parents cried off and on through most of their own testimony... 

The guy who hit him got 10 years of 'shock probation' or something like that? 6 months in prison, followed by 9 and a half years of strict probation if his behavior's good; if he violates it at any point he goes back for up to 20 years.

I genuinely hope the defendant cleans up so something *not* awful comes out of this mess.

But at least it's done. And Bill's parents said after that it was therapeutic to get up there and say what they did, so... yeah.

Don't drink and drive.

----------


## Grytorm

Ah hello again. I'm feeling down today for semi stupid reasons. I think the last time I posted here I mentioned that I thought a woman had a crush on me. Found out by talking to a third party that she probably doesn't because she is engaged*. Now I am sorry if it seems like I am about to launch into some stupid sexist complaint because I am not. I take full responsibility for misinterpreting things. I'm just not used to people actually going out of their way to talk to me. I predict friendly conversations will most likely continue in the future.

Mostly I am posting because of just how my brain has decided to handle it. Basically I am feeling much more depressed than I was a few days ago. Which is really bad given my previous experiences with depression. And I am of course feeling like I shouldn't talk to my parents about this. Mostly I am feeling kind of hopeless again and questioning why I even bother to keep living. Plus I have a mental diatribe cursing the false promises of hope. How I only feel so down because I had hoped that things could change. But they can't. And the experience has left me worse off than before.

*Small chance the person I learned this from thought I was talking about one of the three other women with the same name who work at the shelter I volunteer at.

----------


## darkrose50

> Ah hello again. I'm feeling down today for semi stupid reasons. I think the last time I posted here I mentioned that I thought a woman had a crush on me. Found out by talking to a third party that she probably doesn't because she is engaged*. Now I am sorry if it seems like I am about to launch into some stupid sexist complaint because I am not. I take full responsibility for misinterpreting things. I'm just not used to people actually going out of their way to talk to me. I predict friendly conversations will most likely continue in the future.
> 
> Mostly I am posting because of just how my brain has decided to handle it. Basically I am feeling much more depressed than I was a few days ago. Which is really bad given my previous experiences with depression. And I am of course feeling like I shouldn't talk to my parents about this. Mostly I am feeling kind of hopeless again and questioning why I even bother to keep living. Plus I have a mental diatribe cursing the false promises of hope. How I only feel so down because I had hoped that things could change. But they can't. And the experience has left me worse off than before.
> 
> *Small chance the person I learned this from thought I was talking about one of the three other women with the same name who work at the shelter I volunteer at.


She could be socially awkward and/or have a touch of autism.  Evidently high functioning autism might be 80% of those with autism.  So there could be a lot more of us about than previously thought.

I have Asperger's Syndrome.  I am somewhat socially impaired in reading body language.  Reading body language uses unconscious energy for me to read body language (it can be exhausting, and often requires me to rest my mind after social interactions).  In college I accidently asked out a few girls.  The problem was that I had a girlfriend.  I had so many slashed tires.  Wearing a wedding ring seemed to help the issue.  I made a point to let women know that I was married.

It could be the case that she is attracted to you, but is otherwise dating someone.  I was definitely attracted to the girls I accidently asked out.  My motives were assumed, and I somehow blundered into asking out girls on accident.  "Have you ever been to Navy Pier?"  Became let's go out on a date to Navy Pier (I guess along with the fact that I was attracted to them).

As a national delegate I apologize on the behalf of the Socially Awkward.  Our parties are interesting though.

----------


## WarKitty

> Those of you who have been on the boards for for a while may remember that a few years ago, my bro's best friend (I called him Bill) got hit by a drunk driver. You may also recall that a couple months ago we went to a sentencing hearing that got cancelled because the defense lawyer was called into another county on a child sex case.
> 
> Well... the hearing was rescheduled for yesterday.
> 
> Yesterday was one of the worst days of my life (and considering the last couple of years include an uncle committing suicide, putting down 2 dogs, my mother losing the ability to walk for months, and a brain tumor, that's saying _a lot_)
> 
> Nothing prepares you to sit down at a sentencing hearing and listen to impact statements for a killed friend. His girlfriend kept crying throughout the entire hearing (partly because of survivor's guilt; his last act was to save her from the truck that hit him), my little brother still sounds like a broken man 3 years after the accident, the parents cried off and on through most of their own testimony... 
> 
> The guy who hit him got 10 years of 'shock probation' or something like that? 6 months in prison, followed by 9 and a half years of strict probation if his behavior's good; if he violates it at any point he goes back for up to 20 years.
> ...


I honestly don't think any of us know what to say to that.  Do you accept cups of virtual tea?

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Those of you who have been on the boards for for a while may remember that a few years ago, my bro's best friend (I called him Bill) got hit by a drunk driver. You may also recall that a couple months ago we went to a sentencing hearing that got cancelled because the defense lawyer was called into another county on a child sex case.
> 
> Well... the hearing was rescheduled for yesterday.
> 
> Yesterday was one of the worst days of my life (and considering the last couple of years include an uncle committing suicide, putting down 2 dogs, my mother losing the ability to walk for months, and a brain tumor, that's saying _a lot_)
> 
> Nothing prepares you to sit down at a sentencing hearing and listen to impact statements for a killed friend. His girlfriend kept crying throughout the entire hearing (partly because of survivor's guilt; his last act was to save her from the truck that hit him), my little brother still sounds like a broken man 3 years after the accident, the parents cried off and on through most of their own testimony... 
> 
> The guy who hit him got 10 years of 'shock probation' or something like that? 6 months in prison, followed by 9 and a half years of strict probation if his behavior's good; if he violates it at any point he goes back for up to 20 years.
> ...


I'm truly sorry. That sounds like an awful day. I had a close friend who had a diabetic episode while driving and died from an accident, it must be much worse with the recklessness on the other side.

----------


## WarKitty

> Because a good therapist should never be minimizing or invalidating your experiences.  They should be an ally, not an interrogator.  You shouldn't have to "prove" anything to them.  You went through something freakin' terrible, by gosh, you should be _believed_.  People don't pay hundreds of dollars to come in and tell an elaborate lie to a stranger, especially when that lie nets them no personal gain to tell.  Your experiences and feelings are valid.  They're important.  You are worth being listened to.  You deserve to be treated seriously.  You deserve to be believed.


I wanted to mention this specifically.  I don't think that future therapists have thought I was _lying_, exactly.  Rather, it's that he spun a narrative where I was paranoid and delusional and my mental health problems were causing me to falsely perceive his behavior as abusive.  Where he was just trying to help a poor girl who was too sick to know what she needed.  It's seemed like in the future the only way to be perceived as "sane" was to accept and go along with that narrative - the one that proved I was getting better because I'd come to accept his behavior was actually well intentioned instead of holding on to my delusions that he was abusive.

There's almost nothing on therapist abuse other than sexual misconduct.  That wasn't what happened with me.  But the thread that runs through all the stories with him - including mine - is that students with health problems were liabilities to be controlled rather than people to be helped.  He was angry at me when I didn't take being granted accommodations (my legal right) as a great favor that he did for me.  He told one of my friends, a woman with a seizure disorder, that it was selfish of her that she wasn't thinking about how that affected other students who might find seeing a seizure upsetting.  Another friend he yelled at when she asked to be paired with a new counselor after the one she was seeing started questioning whether her father was really disabled.  The whole attitude was that we ought to be grateful to be in normal society and needed to take pains to not bother other students by having visible problems.

With me, the greatest problems came when I had tried to report being sexually assaulted by a fellow student.  I wasn't allowed to make a report at all because apparently they had a 3-day window and wouldn't take anything after that.  He refused to listen to my report, while focusing on my "paranoid behavior" - much of which was actually a quite sensible attempt to separate myself from this other student.  The fact that I refused to tell people who had been mutual friends what was wrong was used against me as evidence that I was paranoid and refusing help.  So was any desire for time alone, which was quite hard to get in a dorm and at a small religious school.  The way I dressed was also a very common focus and seen as inherently pathological.  Basically the whole thing was set up to spin the story as "crazy girl fabricates accusations against a young man" and not "woman develops trauma symptoms after sexual assault."  The fact that that's an extremely convenient story for the college has not escaped me.




> What kind of help are you looking for? The reason therapy is brought up is because therapists are licensed professionals trained to deal with trauma. 
> 
> There are lots of none-licensed approaches (often religious) like priests, shamans, hypnosis, etc. Or pick up self-help and psychology books and try and do it yourself if having other people involved is too traumatic.


I think for me it's that living in a society that consistently pushes a system that to me has not only supported and enabled an abuser, but gaslit me over both his and other people's behavior and actively encouraged me to not recognize or deal with abuse is itself traumatic.  I feel like there's nowhere to turn for help in a society that continually wants to push therapy at you as the solution to everything.  Even aside from that man, I believe I was only able to recognize and start to deal with my mother's abuse because I quit therapy.  Therapy was encouraging me to downplay and dismiss it and feeding into the idea that the problem was with me and my perceptions, rather than that I had been abused.  And when I tried to reach out to other sources or say something was wrong that was again reinforced, the idea that not finding the therapy I was getting helpful was a sign that there was something wrong with me.  That the only way I could get better was to shut up, shove the idea that I was wrong down, and do what the therapist said, and if I wasn't willing to do that I wasn't worth any other support because I wasn't "trying to get better."

It's an intense, terrifying, feeling.  It feels like the only way I can be safe and happy is to get away from a society where mental health treatment like that is supported and encouraged.  Because the flip side always ends up being denying the harm that happens to people like me.  Not just from the one abuser, but from persistently receiving inappropriate treatment to what was actually going on.  And from the continual reinforcement that the problem was that I was crazy and unable to correctly perceive what was happening to me and the resulting invalidation of my own experiences and feelings.  As well as the encouragement to ignore very real issues in my life in favor of trying to change how I felt about them, with an occasional side of ignoring physical problems that were attributed to my anxiety.

I've always had issues dealing with something I call "social worth" or "societal worth."  It's not a self-esteem concept, but a reflection of being the kind of person that the society I'm in treats as valid, believable, and worthy of having your needs met.  And it's very practical.  It covers things like being able to access health care that takes your needs and situation into account.  Or being able to make a report of abuse and be believed and taken seriously.  Or being perceived as competent when looking for a job.  And it's terrifying to feel like you're not the sort of person who's seen as having valid needs and receiving the support you need in meeting them. But that's been exactly my experience, that you can very easily be denied having your needs met because other people have decided they aren't valid.

----------


## Kesnit

So this may sound a little weird, but I really don't know what to do.

When I was growing up, my dad and I were really close. I didn't have a bad relationship with mom - we got along fine actually - but I was closer to dad.

After I went to college and then moved out on my own, my relationship with both my parents cooled a little, simply because of distance. I only saw them a few times a year. When I was 30, I came out as trans, which Mom did not take well. A few years later, I went back to school and ended up far enough away that getting home for holidays was not feasible. Mom chose not to come to my graduation since I was graduating under my male name, but Dad (and my now-in-laws) did attend. A few months after graduation, I got married. Dad knew about the wedding, but was not there since he needed to keep Mom occupied so she didn't notice my aunts (who were also invited) were not responding to her e-mails (since they were out of town at my wedding). One of my most painful memories is calling Dad the day after the ceremony to talk to him and hearing him cry because he had not been able to be there. 

More years passed. My parents ended up moving several hours away, which made spending time with them very hard. It got to the point that I would call and e-mail, but that was it. 

My mother passed away suddenly last November. Since then, I have seen Dad more than I had in the years prior. He e-mails me and my aunts (his sisters) almost daily, and I e-mail several times a week. He's stopped by for a few visits on his way north to spend a week with his family. He told me that he would prefer to e-mail rather than me call because talking on the phone is too painful for him. I can understand this. (As an aside, Dad is taking me and my wife on a week vacation next February. One of my aunts is going as well.) 

My aunt however, is encouraging me to reach out more to Dad. I would really like to, but I just don't know how. I don't want to make him uncomfortable talking to him on the phone, but e-mail feels a little...impersonal. I just don't know what to do.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> So this may sound a little weird, but I really don't know what to do.
> 
> When I was growing up, my dad and I were really close. I didn't have a bad relationship with mom - we got along fine actually - but I was closer to dad.
> 
> After I went to college and then moved out on my own, my relationship with both my parents cooled a little, simply because of distance. I only saw them a few times a year. When I was 30, I came out as trans, which Mom did not take well. A few years later, I went back to school and ended up far enough away that getting home for holidays was not feasible. Mom chose not to come to my graduation since I was graduating under my male name, but Dad (and my now-in-laws) did attend. A few months after graduation, I got married. Dad knew about the wedding, but was not there since he needed to keep Mom occupied so she didn't notice my aunts (who were also invited) were not responding to her e-mails (since they were out of town at my wedding). One of my most painful memories is calling Dad the day after the ceremony to talk to him and hearing him cry because he had not been able to be there. 
> 
> More years passed. My parents ended up moving several hours away, which made spending time with them very hard. It got to the point that I would call and e-mail, but that was it. 
> 
> My mother passed away suddenly last November. Since then, I have seen Dad more than I had in the years prior. He e-mails me and my aunts (his sisters) almost daily, and I e-mail several times a week. He's stopped by for a few visits on his way north to spend a week with his family. He told me that he would prefer to e-mail rather than me call because talking on the phone is too painful for him. I can understand this. (As an aside, Dad is taking me and my wife on a week vacation next February. One of my aunts is going as well.) 
> ...


I think there is something missing here. Why is talking in person okay but talking on the phone too painful? 

It sounds like the two of you need to have a heart to heart about your relationship while on vacation.

----------


## Kesnit

> I think there is something missing here. Why is talking in person okay but talking on the phone too painful?


A few reasons. First, because I would call and talk to Mom before she passed, so he associates me calling with her. Second, it's easier for him emotionally to just read my words rather than hear my voice. 




> It sounds like the two of you need to have a heart to heart about your relationship while on vacation.


I don't know what to say, though.

----------


## HalfTangible

> I don't know what to say, though.


*shrug* Talk anyway.

----------


## Gray Mage

Kesnit, does te have a cellphone? If so, you could text him. It's not as close as calling, but the increased back and forth might make it feel more personal than e-mails.

Either way, if reaching out more is something you'd like I think you should. Even if other means aren't available, starting by e-mailing more can get your relationship going again as a start.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> A few reasons. First, because I would call and talk to Mom before she passed, so he associates me calling with her. Second, it's easier for him emotionally to just read my words rather than hear my voice. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what to say, though.


I don't think we can really tell you what to say here, but what you said here is probably the closest thing. "I know you have been really hurting and I want to respect your boundaries, but I am hoping we can talk on the phone or see each other more as I miss you and email feels impersonal." Something along those lines.

----------


## WarKitty

> A few reasons. First, because I would call and talk to Mom before she passed, so he associates me calling with her. Second, it's easier for him emotionally to just read my words rather than hear my voice. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what to say, though.


Just a suggestion, but would some form of video chat be possible?  It might be different enough for him to break some of the associations.

----------


## Grytorm

> She could be socially awkward and/or have a touch of autism.  Evidently high functioning autism might be 80% of those with autism.  So there could be a lot more of us about than previously thought.
> 
> I have Asperger's Syndrome.  I am somewhat socially impaired in reading body language.  Reading body language uses unconscious energy for me to read body language (it can be exhausting, and often requires me to rest my mind after social interactions).  In college I accidently asked out a few girls.  The problem was that I had a girlfriend.  I had so many slashed tires.  Wearing a wedding ring seemed to help the issue.  I made a point to let women know that I was married.
> 
> It could be the case that she is attracted to you, but is otherwise dating someone.  I was definitely attracted to the girls I accidently asked out.  My motives were assumed, and I somehow blundered into asking out girls on accident.  "Have you ever been to Navy Pier?"  Became let's go out on a date to Navy Pier (I guess along with the fact that I was attracted to them).
> 
> As a national delegate I apologize on the behalf of the Socially Awkward.  Our parties are interesting though.


Truthfully I was diagnosed with aspergers and tend to be socially inept. The fault is mine. Not that aby of this really matters. Today I discovered the prospect of interacting with her again left me terrified and I have spent the last forty minutes trying to be somewhere out of the way where there is little chance of running into anyone.

----------


## halfeye

> Kesnit, does te have a cellphone? If so, you could text him.


I've texted people, it's painfully slow. Without a proper keyboard my speed is about one or two words per minute? Emails are a lot easier for me. I don't like phoning, mainly due to the cost, it they call you it's minimal (nothing?) but if you have to call them, it's non trivial here.

----------


## Honest Tiefling

> Just a suggestion, but would some form of video chat be possible?  It might be different enough for him to break some of the associations.


This is pretty much what I was going to suggest.  A computer chat with or without audio might be different enough. I am pretty sure Alexa can handle calls as well, and screaming at a tube is quite different from calling! Another idea, if you both have a movie service, is to call while watching the movie. The movie might be enough of a distraction to work anyway.

And if technology fails, consider writing him a weekly letter. Hard to do as frequently, but it feels personal for many people. Maybe send a small little gag toy or treat with it.

----------


## WarKitty

> This is pretty much what I was going to suggest.  A computer chat with or without audio might be different enough. I am pretty sure Alexa can handle calls as well, and screaming at a tube is quite different from calling! Another idea, if you both have a movie service, is to call while watching the movie. The movie might be enough of a distraction to work anyway.
> 
> And if technology fails, consider writing him a weekly letter. Hard to do as frequently, but it feels personal for many people. Maybe send a small little gag toy or treat with it.


Online gaming might also be a fun option.  There are a lot of games out there that are fun for 2 people to play, and they typically come with a voice chat that you can use if you want.

----------


## ve4grm

> Online gaming might also be a fun option.  There are a lot of games out there that are fun for 2 people to play, and they typically come with a voice chat that you can use if you want.


Or really any sort of activity to do together. Giving him something else to focus on during those times when he is uncomfortable may help him acclimate and become more comfortable faster.

(Also, I don't know what age range he's in, or his level of comfort with computer games, but there are plenty of online multiplayer board and card games around as well. Some are free and web-based.)

The vacation might help in this way. You have a reason to be together for a while (that isn't solely to see each other), and hopefully it will help him get used to anything that might make him uncomfortable.

As for what to say, I think Tvtyrant is right. "I miss you and I miss talking, but I want to keep you comfortable and I won't force it" is the key point. Give him the decision for just how to proceed, so he can ease into things as he needs to. Obviously with your mother dying there's a trauma here that isn't just your transition, so you don't want to force things to go faster than he's comfortable as that can be counterproductive. But also he seems to clearly want to be involved in your life, as seen in the wedding story and the desire to email you a lot. Encourage that, and reciprocate the desire. Maybe he'll surprise you.

----------


## Tvtyrant

So I dropped a metal bar a couple feet onto my left arm about four days ago, increasingly sure I have a minor fracture and entirely sure I can't afford to have it looked at. I'm hoping it is a bone bruise or I smacked the nerve really bad, it is fully operable and feels smooth when I grip it but my arm and hand hurt without having any noticeable bruising at all.

----------


## ve4grm

> So I dropped a metal bar a couple feet onto my left arm about four days ago, increasingly sure I have a minor fracture and entirely sure I can't afford to have it looked at. I'm hoping it is a bone bruise or I smacked the nerve really bad, it is fully operable and feels smooth when I grip it but my arm and hand hurt without having any noticeable bruising at all.


Right, so the big advice is to see a doctor, but you've stated your reasons there. I won't go further down that political discussion, especially since as a Canadian the topic is literally foreign to me.

I'll say that usually (not always) a break will cause bruising. Nerve damage or muscle strain won't, but also don't usually last too long. But that's a big usually, and there's no guarantee. It could be lots of things, and nobody can diagnose it over the internet. (I think I'm already pushing the rules of the board by saying as much as I am.)

You might want to splint it or keep it in a sling when you can, just to avoid damaging it further? General first aid for a suspected break is to keep it immobile.

But really, the best bet is to go to a doctor, or at least find someone with first aid experience who can look at it for you. Is there anybody who could help you with the cost of a doctor visit? Are there any free clinics around? Maybe teaching clinics at a local university?

----------


## Jon_Dahl

I would like to thank Honest Tiefling and FinnLassie for their support. I have lately felt more secure about teaching English to the pupils whose first language is English. I would say that your encouragement helped me to start a mental process that has made me a bit more determined. My classes will start soon, and I don't feel too anxious about them. I think it will be okay.

----------


## Spore

> So I dropped a metal bar a couple feet onto my left arm about four days ago, increasingly sure I have a minor fracture and entirely sure I can't afford to have it looked at. I'm hoping it is a bone bruise or I smacked the nerve really bad, it is fully operable and feels smooth when I grip it but my arm and hand hurt without having any noticeable bruising at all.


Maybe on the positive side: My mom broke one or some of her metatarsal bones (middle foot bones) and refused to go to the doctor until weeks later. That being said she is old and knows her body, plus she is pretty robust (and got quite lucky). Please see a doctor. If you worry about being unable to pay, I read about American clinics knowing people can't pay the inflated prices so you can always negotiate the price (and you should even if you can pay them).

I've read an example where someone literally got deducted 80% of a hospital admission (the remaining total of 20% was still too high but still).

----------


## WarKitty

Stuff about therapy's still bothering me.

I can start to understand the one guy who was so bad.  I can't understand the others.

How could so many people completely miss what was going on?  Why did I waste so many years of my life going to the people who were supposed to help me?  How do I even talk about it in a society that's insistent on telling me that I'm bad if I don't go to therapy and bad if I don't benefit from it?  And again, how did the supposed experts so completely miss what was actually going on?

It's clear to me now that a lot of the problem was that I was being treated based on faulty assumptions.  Unfortunately those assumptions also meant that my own misgivings were seen as symptoms, rather than being taken seriously.

----------


## ve4grm

> How could so many people completely miss what was going on?


It's amazing what people can rationalize away. Just look at how many actors, athletes, comedians, musicians, whatever are skeevy people in various ways, yet still have fanbases that just won't believe it's true.

In your case here, it's kind of absurd just how many did this, especially as they are supposed to be professionals, but also kind of understandable since it may have been perceived as not just a statement about the first guy, but an attack on the profession itself. People get defensive sometimes. It's super unfortunate that it happened to you in the context that it did.

Not to excuse it in any way, though. It's bull and should never have happened.

----------


## WarKitty

> It's amazing what people can rationalize away. Just look at how many actors, athletes, comedians, musicians, whatever are skeevy people in various ways, yet still have fanbases that just won't believe it's true.
> 
> In your case here, it's kind of absurd just how many did this, especially as they are supposed to be professionals, but also kind of understandable since it may have been perceived as not just a statement about the first guy, but an attack on the profession itself. People get defensive sometimes. It's super unfortunate that it happened to you in the context that it did.
> 
> Not to excuse it in any way, though. It's bull and should never have happened.


I wasn't even thinking about the first guy.  I was thinking about the issues with my mother.  Like, when I started to bring up the idea that maybe there was something wrong there, I was encouraged to not talk about it because we didn't want to focus on the past.  The message I got from therapy was "you believe there's an issue with this relationship because you're mentally ill."

The reality - that I'd grown up with an abusive parent and was carrying the coping skills I'd learned in that environment into adulthood - actually made things make sense.  The treatment I got seemed to be based on the idea that I'd suddenly developed issues as an adult.  The whole experience of therapy has very much felt like "only a paranoid person could ever believe that what's happened to you could be possible."

I think I somewhat understand what they were trying to do.  They were probably right that I had some ways of coping that weren't helpful.  The trouble is they were pushing me to use coping skills that had consistently had extreme negative results for me in the past, and then saying I "wasn't trying" or "didn't want to get better" if I didn't want to put them into practice.  The same coping skills, in fact, that I'd both been repeatedly told I ought to be using and repeatedly smacked down for daring to actually use.

I did want to get better.  I just wanted a bit more assurance first that I was actually going to be getting better and not just blinding myself to danger.  And the message from therapy was that that wasn't ok, there was _obviously_ no danger and I was just being difficult.  And I felt that "therapy is hard work sometimes" was basically a cover where any distress or objection on my part could be dismissed as me "not wanting to put in the work."

----------


## Chen

> I think I somewhat understand what they were trying to do.  They were probably right that I had some ways of coping that weren't helpful.  The trouble is they were pushing me to use coping skills that had consistently had extreme negative results for me in the past, and then saying I "wasn't trying" or "didn't want to get better" if I didn't want to put them into practice.  The same coping skills, in fact, that I'd both been repeatedly told I ought to be using and repeatedly smacked down for daring to actually use.


Did you tell them this and explain WHY it was a problem? I mean it does seem mind boggling that multiple therapists would suggest the same thing, and they'd all react the same way to you explaining why that doesnt work....

----------


## darkrose50

So my wife went for a second opinion.  The second doctor had like seven options for her, as opposed to two.  The second doctor also had more information that sounded more correct for the two options the first doctor had.

I think that my new procedure is to assume that all doctors are morons, vet their ideas thoroughly, and always go for more opinions.

I have had so many bad doctors/dentist with my HMO . . ..

----------


## WarKitty

> Did you tell them this and explain WHY it was a problem? I mean it does seem mind boggling that multiple therapists would suggest the same thing, and they'd all react the same way to you explaining why that doesnt work....


To give an example:

When I did start bringing up my mother, I got all the usual advice on dealing with relationships.  Use I feel statements, try to compromise, that sort of thing.  And I know I kept saying "no, I know that won't work."  I didn't really know why I thought that, I just had this strong sense that it was a really bad idea that I couldn't explain.

In retrospect, from my perspective, it's clear what had happened.  There was nothing I could ever have done to fix the relationship with my mother.  She simply doesn't want to relate to me in a healthy way.  And she will take things like that and use them as ammo to hurt you and to restore the relationship dynamics that she wants.  The therapist's advice wasn't safe.

On some level I knew that things like that were a bad idea.  But I still wasn't at the point where I could recognize why.  As far as I knew my mother was a perfectly normal parent - and I think I was working off of the idea that the therapist had a fairly similar model of normal parenting to what I did.  So to me the therapist was just pushing obviously bad things for some reason and it didn't make any sense.

From the therapist's perspective, I'm guessing it looked like I was just refusing to take any of their advice.  I got framed as being difficult.  I felt like when I said "I don't know" it was taken as some sort of indication that I was hiding something from the therapist.  I don't get the sense that there was ever any serious consideration of the idea that my instinctive response might be the correct one, or that I genuinely might not know.  I got the same reaction when I said things like "I don't understand" - that it wasn't taken at face value and I just wasn't trying, when I actually didn't understand.

This is all extremely common in abuse victims, by the way.  You learn normal from what you're used to.  I didn't explain why because I honestly, genuinely didn't know why.  I wouldn't possibly be able to explain why until I had the chance to sort through things on my own without therapy interfering - a process that took quite some time even then.  All I had at the time was "I know this is a bad idea but I don't know why", and that got consistently treated as me being difficult or uncooperative.

----------


## halfeye

> After reading some newspapers this last weekend I've been feeling sad and on Tuesday to distract myself I did a websearch for more information about my best friend from elementary school who was my second D&D DM (his eldest brother was my first DM) who I met back in the 70s, whos dead now, I saw a page memorializing him, he had beautiful second wife and kids whom I never met (I was at his wedding with his first wife, who later cheated on him and they divorced) he became a scientist (he seemed far more imaginative than me in our youth and I guess was smarter as well), moved to Santa Cruz, and died of cancer not too long ago.
> 
> I looked up another friend from the same times who whos mom became a junkie when we were teenagers and he moved into my Moms house so I moved into my Dads house because it was too crowded, when he turned 18 he joined the Marines, and I was a little glad to see him get out of town, but I couldnt find any trace of him on-line so his fate remains unknown to me.
> 
> And then I made a mistake that kept me from sleeping Tuesday night/Wednesday morning: I looked up the girl that came with me to my best friends wedding when I think I was 21 or 22 and she was 18 or 19, but we met when we were both still teenagers, and I fell for her hard (as only teenagers can) we dated a bit, in time she lost interest in me romantically (as most women do their men, but luckily for us men older women will resign themselves to staying with us sometimes) and I never fell as hard for another girl of women again including my beautiful wife who I met when I was 23 and have been with since I was 24.
> 
> For around the second to last sort of date I had with the girl Ill call K (when we were at the just being friends stage) she called me to invite me to a house party concert, and then when I called her back she was very angry with me because I called her by her childhood name, and not the new name she had chosen for herself of and I mostly decided then that it would be better to mostly curtail the friendship, though I saw her a few times afterwards, once when I was on a motorcycle that I was proud of and I saw her and said hello, once some years latet on an actual dinner for the two of us at a fancy restaurant (which we never did when we were actually boyfriend and girlfriend, mostly we just rode on my motorscooter) when she indulged my whim to try to LARP an adult date despite usually being too poor for such things, and the last time was at a bookstore that I was at with my future wife for a reading she wanted to attend, and I got in line to buy a book the cashier said my name (twice!) until I realized that the cashier was K, who said to me: I thought you were moving to Seattle and I replied: I was there for months, but it was just too dark, and I havent spoken to her again for decades, and I assumed that she moved out of town like most of the friends I had in my youth. 
> 
> Well
> ...


You had kids and K didn't? You're ahead.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> After reading some newspapers this last weekend I've been feeling sad and on Tuesday to distract myself I did a websearch for more information about my best friend from elementary school who was my second D&D DM (his eldest brother was my first DM) who I met back in the 70s, whos dead now, I saw a page memorializing him, he had beautiful second wife and kids whom I never met (I was at his wedding with his first wife, who later cheated on him and they divorced) he became a scientist (he seemed far more imaginative than me in our youth and I guess was smarter as well), moved to Santa Cruz, and died of cancer not too long ago.
> 
> I looked up another friend from the same times who whos mom became a junkie when we were teenagers and he moved into my Moms house so I moved into my Dads house because it was too crowded, when he turned 18 he joined the Marines, and I was a little glad to see him get out of town, but I couldnt find any trace of him on-line so his fate remains unknown to me.
> 
> And then I made a mistake that kept me from sleeping Tuesday night/Wednesday morning: I looked up the girl that came with me to my best friends wedding when I think I was 21 or 22 and she was 18 or 19, but we met when we were both still teenagers, and I fell for her hard (as only teenagers can) we dated a bit, in time she lost interest in me romantically (as most women do their men, but luckily for us men older women will resign themselves to staying with us sometimes) and I never fell as hard for another girl of women again including my beautiful wife who I met when I was 23 and have been with since I was 24.
> 
> For around the second to last sort of date I had with the girl Ill call K (when we were at the just being friends stage) she called me to invite me to a house party concert, and then when I called her back she was very angry with me because I called her by her childhood name, and not the new name she had chosen for herself of and I mostly decided then that it would be better to mostly curtail the friendship, though I saw her a few times afterwards, once when I was on a motorcycle that I was proud of and I saw her and said hello, once some years latet on an actual dinner for the two of us at a fancy restaurant (which we never did when we were actually boyfriend and girlfriend, mostly we just rode on my motorscooter) when she indulged my whim to try to LARP an adult date despite usually being too poor for such things, and the last time was at a bookstore that I was at with my future wife for a reading she wanted to attend, and I got in line to buy a book the cashier said my name (twice!) until I realized that the cashier was K, who said to me: I thought you were moving to Seattle and I replied: I was there for months, but it was just too dark, and I havent spoken to her again for decades, and I assumed that she moved out of town like most of the friends I had in my youth. 
> 
> Well
> ...


Being as you are older and wiser then me I won't give you advice on this. I'm sorry that you are feeling down though.

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## WarKitty

Actually the above reminds me of a pretty common problem I've had in therapy - the sense that "I don't know" wasn't an acceptable answer.  Trouble is that when I said "I don't know", I actually meant _I don't ******* know!_  all the trying to get me to open up in the world or telling me therapy won't work if I'm not cooperating won't help if I actually don't know.

But working with people who never seem to believe you doesn't help.  The only message I got was that I was too bad and messed up for therapy.  Because even when I told the truth I obviously wasn't doing it right.  After all, they were the experts, and therapy works if you try hard enough.  Only people who don't want to get better aren't in therapy.

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## Adaon Nightwind

Mostly i am just reading, but.. i just wanted to tell you all that i am sorry about so much that happens in your lifes.

WarKitty, you've got so much bad luck with therapists that you should be about ready to punch through brick walls by now. I've got a similar treatment by my Mother, and got together with some bad and/or incompetent therapists, but i was never subjected to such a wall of harmful stupidity. I can only tell you that there *are* people out there who are competent and caring and compassionate, and i wish you all the luck in the world in finding them. In the meantime, i wish you strenghth for your journey of self discovery. My best friend walked it, and now she's showing me how to find my way.


2D8HP, the "what if" - Game can become a seriously downward spiral. Some people will come ahead in a lot of ways; some will fall behind in others. All told, life is not fair or balanced. We should always look upwards, to see those above us, and to aspire to become better versions of ourselves in the light of their accomplishments, even if it never means shining for ourselves; but we do have a light in ourselves to warm us and our own. And reading that you bought a house, have a family - it would seem that you reached high and got a long way. You are far ahead in front of others in a lot of ways; and while that might not be enough to feel "good" about it, it cannot hurt to remember those good things in you life and feel "alright" about them.


Tvtyrant, i sure hope your arm has become better and that the bones have set and begun to form a strong bond again. I literally can not comprehend how it must be not being able to visit a doctor whenever you feel like it because it would cost too much; having grown up in Europe, i am just lucky in that regard. I would urge you to not put pressure on your arm yet, even if it feels strong enough again to use it, and give it some more time. Good luck!

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## Lacco

@2D8HP: I know the feeling. And the "What If" game - but the real question that should be asked is: are you (you = 2D8HP + wife + kids) happy?

As corollary: "Do I do my best do make 'us' happy?"

The alternatives to the path we take in our lives are rather strange - when you stand at a crossroad, you usually see just one way street. When you turn to look back, there is a branching narrative. What was easy decision then becomes a tree of choices in hindsight.

What if I did return the punch? What if I stayed with her? What if I chose a different work? What if I never married my wife?

Valid questions - but they do not matter. Not any more (unless time travel gets real). What matters is - I do my best to make my wife happy. Not always - being a flawed human I fail due to laziness, my own comfort zone or inability to herd kids - but I try. Every day. And I support her. It's never too late to start writing books if she wants to - the question is: does she want to? If yes, support her. If not: find something else that can make her life better.

So: stop thinking "what if". Change the viewpoint. Start asking "what can I do...?"... and do not ask us. Ask your wife.

BTW: that's how my wife started with photography.

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## Chen

> Actually the above reminds me of a pretty common problem I've had in therapy - the sense that "I don't know" wasn't an acceptable answer.  Trouble is that when I said "I don't know", I actually meant _I don't ******* know!_  all the trying to get me to open up in the world or telling me therapy won't work if I'm not cooperating won't help if I actually don't know.
> 
> But working with people who never seem to believe you doesn't help.  The only message I got was that I was too bad and messed up for therapy.  Because even when I told the truth I obviously wasn't doing it right.  After all, they were the experts, and therapy works if you try hard enough.  Only people who don't want to get better aren't in therapy.


I dont know can be a valid answer to something factual or even to how or why youre feeling something but its hard to say you can just leave it at that. Maybe Im misreading your previous post but if a professional suggests a course of action and you refuse it and basically tell them you dont know WHY youre refusing it, I can see why they might consider you difficult if theres no further elaboration on the why. Just leaving it as I dont know really shouldnt be acceptable. That should drive them to probe and try to get to the bottom of things.

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## WarKitty

> I dont know can be a valid answer to something factual or even to how or why youre feeling something but its hard to say you can just leave it at that. Maybe Im misreading your previous post but if a professional suggests a course of action and you refuse it and basically tell them you dont know WHY youre refusing it, I can see why they might consider you difficult if theres no further elaboration on the why. Just leaving it as I dont know really shouldnt be acceptable. That should drive them to probe and try to get to the bottom of things.


The thing is that probing always occurred with the baseline assumption that I really _did_ know and needed to be encouraged to actually say it.  When the truth was I actually, genuinely, 100% didn't know.  Not just that I didn't know, but that to me it was like being asked "why don't you just try breathing water instead of air, you might find out that you actually have gills?"  I didn't even understand why someone would suggest things like the therapist was suggesting - it was just so obviously off from anything I'd experienced that I couldn't even explain why it was off.  (For a more useful example, imagine a therapist suggesting that you resolve a relationship problem by calling your mother an ugly troll and flipping her off.  I imagine most people would have a hard time coming up with an answer past "because it's rude," especially if under stress.)

That's really a key for me.  I had absolutely no idea for all of this that there was anything abnormal about my family at home or about the cultural environment I'd grown up with.  As far as I was aware I just was feeling anxious and panicking at random times for reasons that were completely mysterious to me.  When I directly asked therapists why I felt that way it was brushed off as something I had to figure out and open up to the therapist about.  I wouldn't be able to put any of it together without getting that key bit of information that something was actually very off about my own upbringing.  I'd been over the question endlessly and had no answer.  But I think therapists were still digging based on the impression that I had a fundamentally normal background and with a little encouragement they could get me to open up and tell them the answer.  So the digging was very much digging based on the idea that I really did know.

I'm also realizing that this was basically constantly triggering trauma reactions in therapy.  Except, again, I don't think those were ever really caught.  I tend to kind of shut down more than anything in situations like that, and then react very strongly later.  It's not voluntary and without knowing what to look for I probably wouldn't even know that the shut down reaction is abnormal.  (It's a reaction that makes sense if you're aware that I'm used to environments where showing the "wrong" emotions was strongly punished.)  I apparently can be at the point where I haven't eaten or slept for 3 days from stress and still have therapists telling me that I'm only mildly anxious, even in the face of me trying to convince them that there's an actual problem.  I think that was ultimately responsible for ending a lot of times, when the symptoms from uncontrolled reactions to the triggers were more than I could handle.  But that all that was brushed off as "therapy is hard" and I was encouraged to work through it - again, looking back I think that the therapists were thinking I was blowing things out of proportion when I was actually understating them.

----------


## ve4grm

> To give an example:
> 
> When I did start bringing up my mother, I got all the usual advice on dealing with relationships.  Use I feel statements, try to compromise, that sort of thing.  And I know I kept saying "no, I know that won't work."  I didn't really know why I thought that, I just had this strong sense that it was a really bad idea that I couldn't explain.
> 
> In retrospect, from my perspective, it's clear what had happened.  There was nothing I could ever have done to fix the relationship with my mother.  She simply doesn't want to relate to me in a healthy way.  And she will take things like that and use them as ammo to hurt you and to restore the relationship dynamics that she wants.  The therapist's advice wasn't safe.
> 
> On some level I knew that things like that were a bad idea.  But I still wasn't at the point where I could recognize why.  As far as I knew my mother was a perfectly normal parent - and I think I was working off of the idea that the therapist had a fairly similar model of normal parenting to what I did.  So to me the therapist was just pushing obviously bad things for some reason and it didn't make any sense.
> 
> From the therapist's perspective, I'm guessing it looked like I was just refusing to take any of their advice.  I got framed as being difficult.  I felt like when I said "I don't know" it was taken as some sort of indication that I was hiding something from the therapist.  I don't get the sense that there was ever any serious consideration of the idea that my instinctive response might be the correct one, or that I genuinely might not know.  I got the same reaction when I said things like "I don't understand" - that it wasn't taken at face value and I just wasn't trying, when I actually didn't understand.
> ...


That... makes a lot of sense as to why your experiences were so bad, then.

Ideally, a good therapist might have been able to draw this out of you and realize (or bring you to realize) what the truth of your situation was. Obviously that didn't happen, and only happened with time and distance. There is a thing in therapy that a therapist can only work with the information they are given, and whether the patient is unwilling or simply unable to provide that info doesn't really make a difference. How your therapists dealt with this fact, though, was obviously poor.

What this makes me think, however, is that if (if, not when) you decide to try therapy again to help with your active anxiety issues, you now know the root of the issue and how to articulate it, and can likely have a much more productive conversation about it, hopefully getting better results.

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## darkrose50

> Im feeling like I've been a bad influence and an anchor on my wife right now, and given our age and parental duties it's too late to fix that, though maybe it's just a mood of mine because of a lack of vitamins, or that I'm running out of room and places to hide all the books I buy (which is my main hobby) as I was already despondent regarding news from places that I usually regard as "There be Dragons", in any case - I'm feelin' down.


The grass looks greener on the other side.  This is so very true.  

I have gluten intolerance and I have not really been able to eat gluten for about 10-15 years.  I recently found some enzymes that fixed this more-or-less . . . they might cause acid, gas, or leave me feeling tired . . . but I can eat a g-- damned waffle!  So at my hotel at GenCon I made me a waffle . . . they are not anywhere near as good as I remembered . . . nor as good as I imagined that they would be lookin' at all my friends and family enjoying those waffles over the years.

I was chased though high school by a the girl voted most attractive in my class.  I kick myself sometimes for not letting her catch me.  I bet that if I did let her catch me that my life would not be any better than it is now, and perhaps it would have ended up even worse.

Also once you can afford something, getting it is not as fulfilling as you would think.  Your imagination makes the thing WAY better than it is.  

Chocolate is the exception . . . chocolate is always the exception!

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## Chen

> The thing is that probing always occurred with the baseline assumption that I really _did_ know and needed to be encouraged to actually say it.  When the truth was I actually, genuinely, 100% didn't know.  Not just that I didn't know, but that to me it was like being asked "why don't you just try breathing water instead of air, you might find out that you actually have gills?"  I didn't even understand why someone would suggest things like the therapist was suggesting - it was just so obviously off from anything I'd experienced that I couldn't even explain why it was off.  (For a more useful example, imagine a therapist suggesting that you resolve a relationship problem by calling your mother an ugly troll and flipping her off.  I imagine most people would have a hard time coming up with an answer past "because it's rude," especially if under stress.)


Perhaps I did misunderstand then. The examples you give here aren't simply saying "I don't know". They are giving brief reasons for not doing something. Because its rude seems like a perfectly normal reason to give (particularly to the example you gave). But in such a case presumably a therapist would dig in to WHY you thought it was rude etc etc. 




> That's really a key for me.  I had absolutely no idea for all of this that there was anything abnormal about my family at home or about the cultural environment I'd grown up with.  As far as I was aware I just was feeling anxious and panicking at random times for reasons that were completely mysterious to me.  When I directly asked therapists why I felt that way it was brushed off as something I had to figure out and open up to the therapist about.  I wouldn't be able to put any of it together without getting that key bit of information that something was actually very off about my own upbringing.  I'd been over the question endlessly and had no answer.  But I think therapists were still digging based on the impression that I had a fundamentally normal background and with a little encouragement they could get me to open up and tell them the answer.  So the digging was very much digging based on the idea that I really did know.


I mean this in and of itself is shocking. Background and family interactions seem like they'd be pretty key to understanding how a person thinks/feels. None of the therapists even asked about your familial interactions? That definitely seems like gross incompetence. 




> I'm also realizing that this was basically constantly triggering trauma reactions in therapy.  Except, again, I don't think those were ever really caught.  I tend to kind of shut down more than anything in situations like that, and then react very strongly later.  It's not voluntary and without knowing what to look for I probably wouldn't even know that the shut down reaction is abnormal.  (It's a reaction that makes sense if you're aware that I'm used to environments where showing the "wrong" emotions was strongly punished.)  I apparently can be at the point where I haven't eaten or slept for 3 days from stress and still have therapists telling me that I'm only mildly anxious, even in the face of me trying to convince them that there's an actual problem.  I think that was ultimately responsible for ending a lot of times, when the symptoms from uncontrolled reactions to the triggers were more than I could handle.  But that all that was brushed off as "therapy is hard" and I was encouraged to work through it - again, looking back I think that the therapists were thinking I was blowing things out of proportion when I was actually understating them.


I can certainly see how this could have negative impacts on prior therapy sessions and how, if the therapist was unaware, it would simply seem like you not participating. But this seems like something you could bring up, up front with a therapist, at least in a similar manner to what you brought up here (though I suppose you may have already tried that with less success...)

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## WarKitty

> I mean this in and of itself is shocking. Background and family interactions seem like they'd be pretty key to understanding how a person thinks/feels. None of the therapists even asked about your familial interactions? That definitely seems like gross incompetence.


It was brought up, but generally my reports that everything was pretty normal were taken at face value.  There wasn't any of the type of thing that would reveal differences that I wasn't already aware of.  So much of it is in little things that if you don't see the manipulation under the surface you'd think it was all normal.




> I can certainly see how this could have negative impacts on prior therapy sessions and how, if the therapist was unaware, it would simply seem like you not participating. But this seems like something you could bring up, up front with a therapist, at least in a similar manner to what you brought up here (though I suppose you may have already tried that with less success...)


I mean, at the time, I brought up what I knew.  Again, at the time there was a lot that I wasn't aware of.  But I know I definitely expressed that something wasn't right, and that I felt like I couldn't handle it, and it wasn't really taken seriously.  It just seemed to reinforce the idea they had that I didn't really want to do any work in therapy.

I wouldn't trust someone in person with all of this, I think, unless I had known them for several years.  The times I have have gone very badly.  It's definitely a thing that therapists can freak out on you.

I've had other things repeat that pattern too.  Like I remember several cases where the therapist wanted me to do something, only it didn't make any sense to me at all what they wanted me to do.  It's been a while, but one I mentioned before was that I'd consistently get the question "What part of your body do you feel anxiety in?"  And it didn't make the slightest sense to me.  But when I'd say that, they wouldn't explain or clarify, I'd just get told to try.  Except it didn't make sense, and just randomly throwing out words didn't seem like trying, but I literally didn't know what else to do.  Except they insisted that I had to just try in a way that made it obvious that they thought I did understand on some level when I really didn't.

I eventually read a book that explained the same question in a different way and suddenly it made sense.  But therapists seemed to jump straight to the idea that my saying I didn't understand was some sort of psychological block to be worked through.  Not that I honestly didn't understand.

*I wish I could explain how it felt, though.  It was like having someone hammer into you, over and over, see, you're so broken and worthless that not even the professionals could possibly believe you could actually be this pathetic.  And then everywhere else you might turn for support telling you that you don't deserve anything until you go to therapy and you must just be a bad person if therapy doesn't work for you.  And the only possible solution is to keep going to the people who don't believe you or really listen to you until somehow it magically turns around and works.*

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## WarKitty

I do also wonder sometimes if gender factors played into all this, too.  I've noticed a lot of screening even now assumes gendered violence patterns.  So I'd come up as a false negative if they're looking for an abusive father.

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## HalfTangible

> I do also wonder sometimes if gender factors played into all this, too.  I've noticed a lot of screening even now assumes gendered violence patterns.  So I'd come up as a false negative if they're looking for an abusive father.


It's a sad truth that we tend to assume the man is the abuser even in cases where it's the woman, especially in our family courts. That doesn't seem to be the case here, though; thinking the father is abusing you when it's your mother wouldn't produce a reaction more akin to "she's just not trying".

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## WarKitty

> It's a sad truth that we tend to assume the man is the abuser even in cases where it's the woman, especially in our family courts. That doesn't seem to be the case here, though; thinking the father is abusing you when it's your mother wouldn't produce a reaction more akin to "she's just not trying".


I meant more in terms of overlooking the potential for my mother to be abusive.  Not that they thought that my father was abusing me, but that that's the only avenue of abuse investigated.  Like being asked how my father treated my mother but not vice versa as a way of checking if I'd grown up around domestic violence - you'll get a false negative on the question "did I grow up around domestic violence" if you do it that way.  Or overlooking potentially dubious things my mother did, or my own reports of how I felt about her, where they wouldn't have been overlooked if I'd reported that my father behaved the same way.

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## Mith

> That it could be far worse is obvious, I pass dozens of the tents of the homeless every work day, and I can remember when the noise in the apartment grew too much and we lived in a truck for a year, but somehow the gratitude I should feel for what we *do* have doesn't come, but the tears do.


Some advice I came across today that may help you in this time (and perhaps others in this thread)

https://twitter.com/TheRaDR/status/1...670718464?s=19

As for your son, one thing I can recommend when he looks at courses is to look at doing smaller course loads, especially to start with.  That can give him time to adjust to the rigour of University without being swamped right out the gate.  Depending on what he's looking at (and your University) he might be able to do some prep work to allow him to ease into university courses (might only be a thing in Maths though).

University is hard yes, but I'd say the trick is to find something that gives you the will to keep on at it.  Otherwise you'll be stuck at the end with a really expensive sheet of paper.

Not sure what other resources are available for you but if he doesn't have a solid picture of what he wants to do, things searching things such as "what can I do with X degree?" is a good start.

On that particular topic I can help a bit more, as I am now 6 years into post secondary school/work, though some specifics may be different from university to university.

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## FinnLassie

No advice please, but I just want to say that I am. So. Tired. Tired of narcissism. Tired of trying to converse with a narcissist. Exhausted trying to not make the narcissist berserk forcing me to cut ties. Absolutely enraged that the narcissist uses my nephews as weapons to gain power. So. Damn. Tired.

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## Florian

@WarKitty:

Dunno how the phrase it, but we're having some fragments of a conversation on certain topics on this board for quite a while now, enough for me to try and voice an opinion.

I get the feeling that you're going at the whole therapy thing with the wrong kind of expectation. Us humans are able to withstand a gratuitous amount of mental and physical punishment, both physical as well as mental and still continue of functioning more or less quite well in a sense (both despite and guided by the multination and damage we have suffered).

Any therapist worth their salt will look at you, how you are right now, how you "deviate from the norm" right now and not care about how you got there, how it was your mother, but see the "broken you" and aim to "fix this" as sorta-kinda a mental triage before tackling any deeper issues.

Let me tell you about my experience. I'm "broken goods", ok? My psychic scars run deep and I've developed ways and means to cope with everything that came up, up to the point that I thought I suffer from a "bog standard depression" and needed help - well, turned out that it wasn't and I couldn't get it, at least not in the easy way I hoped for, akin to getting a broken bone set.

All I can tell you, there is no cure. Your mum or mine, it doesn't matter who ruined us, it matters how we cope with the resulting scar tissue.

----------


## WarKitty

Thanks, Florian - that actually means a lot.

I think the damage to me isn't so much from therapy being ineffective.  It's from getting blamed for it not working.  Some of that comes from in therapy - being told that "therapy is hard" when you've been pushed past what you can handle, or being told "you're not trying" or "you're not ready to get better" when you actually are trying.  A lot of it also came from outside therapy itself, but from seeking support in other places and being told that I wasn't welcome if I wasn't in therapy because if I wasn't in therapy I was just whining and not actually trying to get better.  Or being told that my descriptions of treatment that were further traumatizing weren't valid and that I was doing things wrong by criticizing the experts, or even that I was harming other people because my criticisms and search for the answer might deter other people from getting the help they need.  The whole thing came together to form a big mess that said "_If you don't get better in therapy, it's all your fault and you don't deserve any help from anyone else._"  There might have been a nod to the concept of fit, but there wasn't any real acceptance of the possibility that the professionals could simply be wrong.

I suspect for me, the current insistence that cognitive behavioral therapy is apparently the treatment for anything and everything did not help.  (Seriously, it's a bit ridiculous - I always suspicious when a new treatment seems to work for everything under the sun.)  For me, CBT was an almost perfect mirror of the language my mother and others used to convince me that the problem was really all with me.  Getting away required pushing back hard on a world that was insisting if I'd just fix my distorted thinking I'd realize how much she actually loved me and everything could be worked out.

I know I asked, directly and multiple times, what the difference between a cognitive distortion and a rational reaction to a bad situation was.  The question was always dodged, and I was redirected back to whatever distorted thinking pattern the therapist wanted me to learn about.  To me, all that talk about distorted thinking was just too much like the justifications I'd heard for abuse, and therapists were always dodging the question and changing the subject when I tried to get an explanation for the difference.  But my unwillingness to put my objections aside and just go along with what the therapist wanted, with no real explanation of how it worked or why it was different or any attempt at talking about my own problems with it, made me be considered difficult and resistant.  The message was very much that, since I was in therapy, I needed to suppress my own concerns and my own desire to keep myself safe and just do what the therapist said.

I'm starting to see other research, now, that suggests that there are other cases and people in the profession are starting to realize it.  There are other people like me who end up with a giant pile of diagnoses, heavy drugs, and not much else from the mental health system.  Studies that specifically look for trauma in people often find it, but it's not uncommon for therapists not to look, and your standard depression or anxiety treatments tend not to work unless the therapist is specifically trained in dealing with trauma.  Most aren't.  But I think the public perception is still that just seeing "a therapist" will overcome everything.

----------


## The Fury

To tell the truth, I feel so guilty about only coming to this series of threads only when I'm having problems and I don't know what to do. I keep thinking that I take far more than I can give and that's terrible. It is what it is, I guess. Maybe I just don't know how to manage my own personal issues well enough to offer help in any meaningful capacity, and for that I'm sorry.

With that admission of guilt out of the way, I started a new job on Monday, and it was fine the first day, though it got rough after that. The coworker I got paired with kept insisting that I needed to be faster and was plainly frustrated that he needed to explain things to me. The fact that nobody else seems to have ever had this problem also suggests that this is a problem with _me_, not him. 

I just feel horribly disappointed that it took as much effort as it did for me to qualify for this job only for it turn out that I'm actually really bad at it. Maybe I had hoped that by building up some skills and getting on a decent career path I could finally fix myself and stop feeling miserable all the time. That feels pretty childish and naive now. All that said, I do plan on sticking with this job for 90 days. It's probably fair to say that if it doesn't improve then it probably never will.

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## Mith

> To tell the truth, I feel so guilty about only coming to this series of threads only when I'm having problems and I don't know what to do. I keep thinking that I take far more than I can give and that's terrible. It is what it is, I guess. Maybe I just don't know how to manage my own personal issues well enough to offer help in any meaningful capacity, and for that I'm sorry.
> 
> With that admission of guilt out of the way, I started a new job on Monday, and it was fine the first day, though it got rough after that. The coworker I got paired with kept insisting that I needed to be faster and was plainly frustrated that he needed to explain things to me. The fact that nobody else seems to have ever had this problem also suggests that this is a problem with _me_, not him. 
> 
> I just feel horribly disappointed that it took as much effort as it did for me to qualify for this job only for it turn out that I'm actually really bad at it. Maybe I had hoped that by building up some skills and getting on a decent career path I could finally fix myself and stop feeling miserable all the time. That feels pretty childish and naive now. All that said, I do plan on sticking with this job for 90 days. It's probably fair to say that if it doesn't improve then it probably never will.


For feeling guilty about coming for advice, two things: if you feel like you cannot give advice, it's better to not push out something as "payment".  An unspoken value to these threads is that they can also serve as a record for someone who is struggling, but is finding it difficult to reach out for help, thinking that "I am just some text on a screen".  In reading these threads, one can find accounts and advice for similar problems.

There is no give and take in these circles.  It grows as we contribute to it, and stands as it's own records.  A digital Inukshuk for those struggling in the messy business of Life.

=====================

As for your struggles, as a research assistant, I hear you.  I have a few questions:

Is there any part of this job you can try and put time in to try and improve skills at?  I am not saying as to let this job consume your waking hours (though I say that in a "do as I say, not as I do" way), but something that can get you to climb the learning curve faster?  This may be something to ask your co-worker, but they may not be super helpful in this if they are hyper critical of someone starting out.

However, this is the start.  You haven't hit your stride yet, and if you landed the job, then you obviously displayed skills the hiring team (who would have hired all your seemingly unfazed colleagues) thinks make you a fit for the position.

Just because you cannot run up the mountain right at the start, doesn't mean you cannot summit it in due time.

----------


## The Fury

> For feeling guilty about coming for advice, two things: if you feel like you cannot give advice, it's better to not push out something as "payment".  An unspoken value to these threads is that they can also serve as a record for someone who is struggling, but is finding it difficult to reach out for help, thinking that "I am just some text on a screen".  In reading these threads, one can find accounts and advice for similar problems.
> 
> There is no give and take in these circles.  It grows as we contribute to it, and stands as it's own records.  A digital Inukshuk for those struggling in the messy business of Life.
> 
> =====================


See that? That's exactly the kind of beautiful thing to tell someone that I could never think of. I wish I was able to offer that kind of reassurance and insight to someone who's struggling, I really do. I don't think I'm wired that way though.




> As for your struggles, as a research assistant, I hear you.  I have a few questions:
> 
> Is there any part of this job you can try and put time in to try and improve skills at?  I am not saying as to let this job consume your waking hours (though I say that in a "do as I say, not as I do" way), but something that can get you to climb the learning curve faster?  This may be something to ask your co-worker, but they may not be super helpful in this if they are hyper critical of someone starting out.
> 
> However, this is the start.  You haven't hit your stride yet, and if you landed the job, then you obviously displayed skills the hiring team (who would have hired all your seemingly unfazed colleagues) thinks make you a fit for the position.
> 
> Just because you cannot run up the mountain right at the start, doesn't mean you cannot summit it in due time.


Aside from learning how to calm the heck down? No there's not really anything I can do on my own time. The trouble is that there seems to have been an expectation of my ability that wasn't met. As such, I'm worried that I got the job by accidentally misrepresenting my skills rather than demonstrating them accurately. 

I could ask my coworker about this, but he already seems tired dealing with my garbage. Maybe I'll hit my stride in due time, maybe I won't. Like I said, if I don't get up to par after 90 days, I don't think it will happen.

----------


## Mith

> See that? That's exactly the kind of beautiful thing to tell someone that I could never think of. I wish I was able to offer that kind of reassurance and insight to someone who's struggling, I really do. I don't think I'm wired that way though.
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from learning how to calm the heck down? No there's not really anything I can do on my own time. The trouble is that there seems to have been an expectation of my ability that wasn't met. As such, I'm worried that I got the job by accidentally misrepresenting my skills rather than demonstrating them accurately. 
> 
> I could ask my coworker about this, but he already seems tired dealing with my garbage. Maybe I'll hit my stride in due time, maybe I won't. Like I said, if I don't get up to par after 90 days, I don't think it will happen.


I am glad you can take value from what I write.  I look at it and see a ****ing big run on sentence.  :Small Tongue: .

As for the work, fair enough.  I only mention looking at other avenues because my stuff has a lot of technical stuff that stretches the learning curve out before you feel "up to speed".

Good luck!

----------


## Lacco

> With that admission of guilt out of the way, I started a new job on Monday, and it was fine the first day, though it got rough after that. The coworker I got paired with kept insisting that I needed to be faster and was plainly frustrated that he needed to explain things to me. The fact that nobody else seems to have ever had this problem also suggests that this is a problem with _me_, not him.


I have a different kind of guilt when I get to this thread  :Small Big Grin: 
Also: my answers are usually impractical or useless. At least judging from the responses. In RL? I'm good at this. Here? There are much better people - so I am trying to get better too.

Now to your issue: as someone who has to train others and then evaluate the new guys, this seems like standard issue - you are being trained by someone who does not know how to train or does not have the time for it. 

"Nobody else seems to have ever had this problem" => nice, but not real. People do not magically get the overview of the workplace, information about location of items or even internal workings and processes due to being hired. And if this is a job that requires specific skills, these can not be learned by joining the company - the company needs to give you time to train and develop them. Depending on type of the job, this can take anywhere from few days to several years. Even people who worked in similar positions (or with similar machines/programs) need some time to adapt.

Validity of the feeling "nobody seems to have ever had this problem" could be judged based on where does it come from (the colleague, your observation of workplace, your discussion with other newbies). Most of the time, people who are there for 2+ weeks longer than you will seem like they have much less issues. But do not worry.

Most people need things explained when they first encounter them - the usual sources of irritation/frustration for a trainer are repeated questions (asking the same few times; not remembering the answer); not asking correctly (asking something completely different than what you really need and getting useless answer in return); asking overly general question ("ok, what now?" when you already should know) or asking questions in irritating way.

The last one depends on the personality of the trainer.

What I would suggest is similar to advice above: practice makes perfect. Work on your skill outside of worktime, refresh before work, study a bit - but I would also suggest talking to the supervisor. Depending on company policies/culture, they may be able to tell you what is expected from a trainee and maybe provide some additional training/information.

----------


## The Fury

> Validity of the feeling "nobody seems to have ever had this problem" could be judged based on where does it come from (the colleague, your observation of workplace, your discussion with other newbies). Most of the time, people who are there for 2+ weeks longer than you will seem like they have much less issues. But do not worry.


The reason I say that has to do with other people that described their first week. Aside from the inevitable mistakes and bad luck that usually happens when starting a new job, they seem to describe an opposite situation. They all said that it's OK to take your time and don't be afraid to ask questions. My experience has been more, "Pick up the pace! Wasn't that already explained to you? Didn't Rory (not really a name of anyone there,) already show you how to do that? Why are you so slow?" "What do you mean you've never seen one of those before? Aren't you in school for this?"

The takeaway from being told things like that from my second day onward is 1: I'm starting out with a below average skill level for a beginner. 2: I'm here to work, not to learn. 

Predictably, I'm making mistakes in trying to go faster which slows everyone down even more and increases the workload for everyone.

----------


## ve4grm

> The reason I say that has to do with other people that described their first week. Aside from the inevitable mistakes and bad luck that usually happens when starting a new job, they seem to describe an opposite situation. They all said that it's OK to take your time and don't be afraid to ask questions. My experience has been more, "Pick up the pace! Wasn't that already explained to you? Didn't Rory (not really a name of anyone there,) already show you how to do that? Why are you so slow?" "What do you mean you've never seen one of those before? Aren't you in school for this?"
> 
> The takeaway from being told things like that from my second day onward is 1: I'm starting out with a below average skill level for a beginner. 2: I'm here to work, not to learn. 
> 
> Predictably, I'm making mistakes in trying to go faster which slows everyone down even more and increases the workload for everyone.


Given that everyone else has said it's ok to take your time and ask questions, I can say with confidence that the issue is with your coworker. Their behaviour has no excuse.

You've been there *for ONE WEEK!!!*

I'm an engineer. I went to school for 5 years to become one. And then, when I got on the job? I spent *4 MORE YEARS* learning!

You're not perfectly versed in the job in one week? No ****!! Nobody would be, regardless of previous training. If you came there from a different company with 10 years experience you'd still need at least a week to get up to speed since every company works differently.

Talk to your supervisor. Mention that your coworker is making you feel terrible for asking questions, and ask if there's another resource to go to with questions or for assistance. Of if there are training resources so you can improve in your own time. This will show them that you're serious about learning and improving, while also avoiding just complaining about the coworker since you're couching it in a request for help.

----------


## Thrawn4

> You're not perfectly versed in the job in one week? No ****!! Nobody would be, regardless of previous training. If you came there from a different company with 10 years experience you'd still need at least a week to get up to speed since every company works differently.


I agree with everything ve4grm says, but this paragraph summarizes it perfectly.

From my own experience (one apprenticeship and 2 years of practical training after university) I can tell you that sometimes even different departments in the same company building work differently, depending on things like work ethic, motivation, skills and personal life.

I might also add that many people VASTLY under- / overestimate what a beginner should be capable of. Some of them just seem to forget how they started and how difficult it is to learn many things at once (because, you know, they have been doing it for years and don't have to think about it anymore... "obviously" you must be a complete moron because you can't do the same thing right now).

Also, helping a newbie is always more work for the beginning. That's a fact, simple as that. In Germany we have a saying along the lines of "Give me an apprentice who only triples my work, and I will kiss your feet."

Everything but polite and constructive criticism is not warranted!
I've been there. Trust me.

Also, this might be inspirational:
https://doodlealley.com/2012/10/10/b...-with-failure/





> No advice please, but I just want to say that I am. So. Tired. Tired of narcissism. Tired of trying to converse with a narcissist. Exhausted trying to not make the narcissist berserk forcing me to cut ties. Absolutely enraged that the narcissist uses my nephews as weapons to gain power. So. Damn. Tired.


No advice, just a mental hug.
I've been drained by people's behaviour before, it is just... painfully numb I guess.

----------


## darkrose50

> Some advice I came across today that may help you in this time (and perhaps others in this thread)
> 
> https://twitter.com/TheRaDR/status/1...670718464?s=19
> 
> As for your son, one thing I can recommend when he looks at courses is to look at doing smaller course loads, especially to start with.  That can give him time to adjust to the rigour of University without being swamped right out the gate.  Depending on what he's looking at (and your University) he might be able to do some prep work to allow him to ease into university courses (might only be a thing in Maths though).
> 
> University is hard yes, but I'd say the trick is to find something that gives you the will to keep on at it.  Otherwise you'll be stuck at the end with a really expensive sheet of paper.
> 
> Not sure what other resources are available for you but if he doesn't have a solid picture of what he wants to do, things searching things such as "what can I do with X degree?" is a good start.
> ...


I would recommend going to a community college, and getting the basics out of the way there.  College can be crazy expensive, and this would be a way to save some money, and get some support of folks near home.

I would recommend talking to a trusted friend or relative over what is expected at college.  Check in with one or more people that know about college early and often.  Get tutors, find someone who is really good at witting papers and have them check your work, and provide feedback.  Seriously getting good grades at this point is important.  Take it slow, and get all the tutors you can get your hands on.  Study sessions, free tutors, paid tutors, all of it!

Your work will often not speak for itself.  People do not grade like that.  Things like not going to class being viewed as disrespectful, and will lead to a lower grade.  Things like the fact that a often syllabus lies . . . they are so very full of lies . . . it is likely written by the teacher's boss.  Things like sitting in front center and participating, actively making the teachers job easier, is a good way to go, it is a nice thing to do, and it will help with your grade.

DO RECONASANCE ON PROFESSORS!  Oh my gosh this is important.  Avoid the bad professors!  Some are just horrible!  Some are just wonderful!  Find out!  If at all possible find professors that teach at the higher levels and the lower levels.  They likely know more, and they know what to expect from a freshman . . . unlike a freshly minted professor straight from graduate school who will likely grade harshly.

-----

Community college is likely how we will do it when our girls hit college.

Oh my gosh did I screw up my early college years based on all sorts of misconceptions.  College professors are not super logical folks who follow the rules, and your work does not speak for itself (you need to go to class, and get the teacher to learn your name).  Oh boy did those assumptions hurt me.

Learn all about the ways of college . . . they do not tell you any of the useful stuff . . . find someone (many someone's) who survived it, and talk over all the little quirks that no one tells you during orientation.  There are likely YouTube videos and books about it as well.

Getting a job at the grocery store was a mistake for me, but evidently a job is good for most kids.  I should have made it abundantly clear that school came first, and I should have called in sick when I needed to study.  Plenty of my co-workers did.  I would have done better mowing some lawns for date money, rather than work at the grocery store.

I plan on hiring my friend to tutor them and help with papers.  My wife has a degree in reading education, so I hope that will help.  I can write an A-grade paper at the graduate level rather quickly, but I am not sure how well I would be at proof-reading someone else's paper.  I suppose I could be helpful somehow.

All the same I plan on encouraging mentors, study groups, school tutors, paid tutors, and all kinds of support.  Going it alone was a mistake for me.  Kicking the bird out of the nest and hoping they will graduate is not the way to go in my opinion.  This is time and money . . . treat it like it is an investment of time and money.  Take it seriously, and make sure that plans, preparation, and support is there.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Thank you very much for the kind words, upon reflection it's clear that my wife values her privacy too much to have ever done the promotion necessary to be the author she once wanted to be, a more likely fate is that she would've completed law school and have become a lawyer instead of a house wife she became, and while she probably would've had more money, she really didn't want to be a lawyer when I met her as after we became a couple she dropped out of law school, was then kicked off of a paid internship, I worked a bit longer at a job that was ending, then we both had a honeymoon living on Unemployment Insurance which (don't tell our kids!), I long thought of as the happiest year of my life (1992) until I had to get a job and found a low paying one, decided that we needed a cheaper place, and we lived in it for 17 years, and were both unhappy, I because I was working jobs I detested for long hours, and her because she hated living where we did, the situation is better now, we have a house, though with our kids it's crowded, but this week I just can't shake a sadness, and have tears right now, the hopes of youth are gone, I don't know if I'll live long enough to stop working and if I do I don't imagine that I"ll be physically capable of much plus watching our older son's childhood end as he struggles to meet the requirements to go to the University near us (which he says he wants to do, but it's a long shot, and the burden of helping him falls on my wife because I didn't go to college and only know some steps to get blue-collar work).
> 
> That it could be far worse is obvious, I pass dozens of the tents of the homeless every work day, and I can remember when the noise in the apartment grew too much and we lived in a truck for a year, but somehow the gratitude I should feel for what we *do* have doesn't come, but the tears do.


Why do you feel like it is a long shot? If your son is 14 then he hasn't really done anything the university is looling at yet.

My suggestion is to contact some of the professors and advisors at the university and look for someone who will be a mentor and help him craft his university entrance now.

----------


## Mith

> Oh! He's not going to the University *now*! He's 14, it's the struggle to get in that's worrisome.


I was thinking High School here for my advice.  As far as struggles, all I can think of is find some tutors to help with subjects.  Because a lot of difficulties with some subject areas is due to missing a key point from previous years and not being able to easily move forward.

I do still recommend putting in the degree planning now though.  That will save money as well.

----------


## darkrose50

Try to study something that is marketable.

I have several friends with English degrees that do not have jobs in English, and could be doing what they are doing now without any degree at all.  Going into mounds of debt may not be a good idea.

Perhaps when schools did not put you into mounds of debt it was likely a lot more okay to go for the experience, and life lessons.  Having $40,000+ of debt and no job/income to show for it (basically worse off for going) would really suck.

----------


## Lacco

> The reason I say that has to do with other people that described their first week. Aside from the inevitable mistakes and bad luck that usually happens when starting a new job, they seem to describe an opposite situation. They all said that it's OK to take your time and don't be afraid to ask questions. My experience has been more, "Pick up the pace! Wasn't that already explained to you? Didn't Rory (not really a name of anyone there,) already show you how to do that? Why are you so slow?" "What do you mean you've never seen one of those before? Aren't you in school for this?"
> 
> The takeaway from being told things like that from my second day onward is 1: I'm starting out with a below average skill level for a beginner. 2: I'm here to work, not to learn. 
> 
> Predictably, I'm making mistakes in trying to go faster which slows everyone down even more and increases the workload for everyone.


ve4grm's advice is rather sound and he summed the issue up nicely - the only thing I'd do different is... at least at first I'd avoid making enemies of coworkers. So yes, definitely talk to the supervisor - but first ask for guidance. Acknowledge that you are not working fast enough or that you feel you slow others down, but ask for pointers. Guidance. Help.

If he's smart, he'll provide some. If not, follow ve4grm's advice.

When I started my current job (BTW, working for a German company, so I know the saying Thrawn4 mentions), it took me 2 years to get to position where I contributed. Two years. And now I train people to become productive as fast as possible - but we can shave months at best. The process just takes time for newbies. And when we get a guy with university degree in this field, PhD. or many years of practice - the "ideal match" - it still takes at least 4-6 months. At best.

So when you said "other people that described their first week" - I assume these were all from your work. All trained by the same guy as you?

----------


## The Fury

> So when you said "other people that described their first week" - I assume these were all from your work. All trained by the same guy as you?


I don't think they were trained by him, but they do get along with him OK. And yes, I don't want to make enemies at work, especially not early on. I'm OK with being thought of as dumb, but I'd rather not be seen as dumb _and_ malicious. 

As it stands, I think I'll learn as much as I can about my job with other resources like YouTube. Maybe I'll catch up then. If I don't...well, there's other jobs.

----------


## Ornithologist

In most professional settings, I don't expect new people to really preform to the correct level for a full year. My biggest rule of thumb for new people is " Do they ever ask the same question more than once?" If they are not asking more than once, then they will get where they need to be eventually. 

On an unrelated note, my attempts at dating have gone poorly. It's either hit a dating site with the general public and go through tons of women who are uninteresting to find someone who shares interest with me, or hit up the geek dating sites and hope the few women who are on them will notice me through the literal tidal wave of other men. Worse, considering that rule zero of online dating is don't be a creeper; its super frustrating when most of the other guys on the sites can't even clear that bar, and I'm still not getting any contact back.

No advise needed, just needed to rant.  On the plus side, there is a dating event at an upcoming convention I'm planning to attend. So that will be nice.

----------


## WarKitty

> In most professional settings, I don't expect new people to really preform to the correct level for a full year. My biggest rule of thumb for new people is " Do they ever ask the same question more than once?" If they are not asking more than once, then they will get where they need to be eventually.


I would caution that asking more than once isn't always a problem though.  It could mean that it was poorly explained the first time - or, more generously, that the explanation the first person gave didn't work well for them.  It could mean that they're getting too much information too quickly or being expected to do too much too early, which results in not retaining all the information.  In my experience that last one is very common.  I've been dealing with the first one at my current job though - the explanations are given by the guy who knows how to do everything and tends to forget to mention a lot of things because of that.

----------


## Tvtyrant

There are also individuals who just miss everything regardless of who trains them and how many times something is explained. I have had a few of those at every job I have ever done. Like if a task requires a specific order they will do it out of order and forget steps after a year of performing the same task, or can't be allowed to talk to customers because they will immediately interpret policies in strange and destructive ways.

The thing is, in my experience you can't tell them apart within a few months (unless the task is mind numbingly easy.) I would stick around and see if you don't start catching some sort of a groove for the basic stuff in a month or two, the complicated stuff might require oversight for a long time.

----------


## darkrose50

Oh the training for my current job was horrible.  I am an insurance agent.  I literally fill out forms for a living.  Training did not touch on filling out forms at all.  No training on how to fill out this or that form, no documentation or manual.  I did not even know that there were different forms for enrolling, and what they were called.  This is a level of incompetence that is unbelievably astounding and dumbfounding.

We had customer service trainers fly in, and they trained us on how to talk nicely.  We even had a 1/2 day on body language . . . we are 100% over the phone!

Those customer service trainers designed "manuals" on what they thought insurance agents would need.  There should be no surprise that they were not worth the paper they were printed on.  Seriously everyone threw them away, and when we had a new supervisor no one had one to show her how horrible they were.  The whole set-up was pretty laughable, if you ask me.

Some people are just clueless, it takes time to acclimate.  Your learning style might not match your co-workers learning style.  I have seen audio leaners get frustrated at me for wanting to write things down . . . as if everyone can learn via hearing something said aloud once.  

When bosses pick someone to learn from, often they pick the one that is best at the thing.  Being good at a thing is not the same as being good at explaining the thing.  The same is true for writing procedures.  I often see procedures that might as well say "do the thing".

Figure out what your learning style is (styles are), and do the same for the co-worker training you.  Let them know that people are different and that you need to work together to figure it out.  Many folks are clueless about people being different, and some just don't care.

----------


## ve4grm

> I would caution that asking more than once isn't always a problem though.  It could mean that it was poorly explained the first time - or, more generously, that the explanation the first person gave didn't work well for them.  It could mean that they're getting too much information too quickly or being expected to do too much too early, which results in not retaining all the information.  In my experience that last one is very common.  I've been dealing with the first one at my current job though - the explanations are given by the guy who knows how to do everything and tends to forget to mention a lot of things because of that.


Yeah, even asking more than once isn't an issue. More than twice might be, depending on context. But I have tasks for my job that I have to ask how to do (or google how to do) almost every time I do them because they come up so rarely.

I once got a poor review from a trainer because I "asked too many questions" and I was only asking how to do things once, then sometimes asking for clarification on what the goals of those things were. It was solely because the person training me wasn't great at training, and (more importantly) didn't want to be training.

As I got into my actual career, I've come to hold my willingness to ask questions and drive to understand what I'm being asked to do as one of my most valuable tendencies.




> In most professional settings, I don't expect new people to really preform to the correct level for a full year. My biggest rule of thumb for new people is " Do they ever ask the same question more than once?" If they are not asking more than once, then they will get where they need to be eventually. 
> 
> On an unrelated note, my attempts at dating have gone poorly. It's either hit a dating site with the general public and go through tons of women who are uninteresting to find someone who shares interest with me, or hit up the geek dating sites and hope the few women who are on them will notice me through the literal tidal wave of other men. Worse, considering that rule zero of online dating is don't be a creeper; its super frustrating when most of the other guys on the sites can't even clear that bar, and I'm still not getting any contact back.
> 
> No advise needed, just needed to rant.  On the plus side, there is a dating event at an upcoming convention I'm planning to attend. So that will be nice.


Good luck at the con dating! I don't have much advice for the online dating besides to keep putting yourself out there, keep sending messages when you're interested (and asking leading questions so they have good reason to message back) and keep not being a creeper! Be interesting, and you might break through the wall of creep.

Also, don't be afraid to message the women on the general dating sites who seem nice but don't necessarily state that they share your geeky interests. Some have just never gotten a chance to try and will enjoy them with you, and some may not but will at least respect your interests and help you enjoy them. My gaming group has a mix of people with and without gaming spouses and all are quite happy because the non-gamers still respect and enable the geek hobbies.

Speaking from experience, yes it's amazing to find a significant other who enjoys your geeky hobbies with you, but you might be excluding some truly wonderful people who you could enjoy a great life with.

Good luck!

----------


## Sermil

> The reason I say that has to do with other people that described their first week. Aside from the inevitable mistakes and bad luck that usually happens when starting a new job, they seem to describe an opposite situation. They all said that it's OK to take your time and don't be afraid to ask questions. My experience has been more, "Pick up the pace! Wasn't that already explained to you? Didn't Rory (not really a name of anyone there,) already show you how to do that? Why are you so slow?" "What do you mean you've never seen one of those before? Aren't you in school for this?"
> 
> The takeaway from being told things like that from my second day onward is 1: I'm starting out with a below average skill level for a beginner. 2: I'm here to work, not to learn. 
> 
> Predictably, I'm making mistakes in trying to go faster which slows everyone down even more and increases the workload for everyone.


The trainer is bad. They don't understand how to train.

In _The Mythical Man-Month_, Fred Brooks' classic work on managing software projects, he estimates that when a new programmer is added to a project, it takes three to six months before they start making a net-positive contribution. This because, of course, new people don't know what they are doing yet and have to ask the skilled people lots of questions. This is what is expected when you hire a new person in a technical field -- several months of them trying to learn their way around, bugging the experienced people with questions, and making mistakes that the experienced people have to correct. 

If your trainer expects you to be net-positive in 1 day, that means your trainer doesn't understand how the world works, not that you are doing anything wrong. 

I don't have any practical advice for you beyond keep trying anyways, and read documentation when available, but know that the trainer is being unrealistic.

----------


## darkdragoon

Ours is basically

Explanation and handout
Watch them do it
Do it with guidance
As normal once you are comfortable

Similarly for us it's better to avoid mistakes.  it's better to fix mistakes ASAP.   It's better to handle stuff in our own department if possible.

----------


## The Fury

I feel like I've behaved badly in my last few posts here, so I apologize. 

Work is going a little bit better, though I still feel... a little cheated. I worked pretty hard to qualify for my job but I still feel like an easily replaceable cog. So all that effort feels a little like a lateral move. It could be worse I guess. At least I'm not doing customer service anymore. 

On another note, even though I've struggled with depression and anxiety nearly my entire life, I've been pretty good about not letting it show. I feel like now I'm slipping badly.

----------


## darkrose50

My best-friend had a job testing the engines for a truck manufacturer.  He wanted to try a different job, got an electrical degree, and transferred to another department.  The other department did not want to train him on how to do the job, because he had more years at the company, and was getting paid more than they were.  People can suck.

----------


## Asmotherion

Hey. No judging this whole therapy thing. But i feel the best "therapy" is sharing with your close friends about stuff that you can't stomach. Some sport to get anger out your system. Having a healthy sex life. And being able to bottle up everything that you can't change and smile through life.

Therapy finds all the parts of yourself that you hate and brings them up front. As a result you start hating yourself and need more therapy. it's a vicious cyrcle.

----------


## The Fury

> Hey. No judging this whole therapy thing. But i feel the best "therapy" is sharing with your close friends about stuff that you can't stomach. Some sport to get anger out your system. Having a healthy sex life. And being able to bottle up everything that you can't change and smile through life.
> 
> Therapy finds all the parts of yourself that you hate and brings them up front. As a result you start hating yourself and need more therapy. it's a vicious cyrcle.


That's all well and good I guess. Though people like me that are fairly isolated don't really have close friends, much less sexual partners. 

Maybe therapy does bring up the parts of yourself that you hate, but I spend a lot of time alone with thoughts like that anyway. Not that therapy has been that successful for me, mind you.

----------


## ve4grm

> I feel like I've behaved badly in my last few posts here, so I apologize.


You've done no such thing. Apology not necessary. What is this thread for, after all, but to air grievances and talk with people about them?

I think all that's happened is you brought up an issue (bad trainers) that people feel passionately about, myself included. If you felt anger in some of the responses, be assured it wasn't towards you but rather your coworker/trainer.




> Work is going a little bit better, though I still feel... a little cheated. I worked pretty hard to qualify for my job but I still feel like an easily replaceable cog. So all that effort feels a little like a lateral move. It could be worse I guess. At least I'm not doing customer service anymore. 
> 
> On another note, even though I've struggled with depression and anxiety nearly my entire life, I've been pretty good about not letting it show. I feel like now I'm slipping badly.


We all slip at times, and starting a new job is stressful. One thing I might recommend is instead of focusing on "not letting it show", give yourself a place/time where you can let it all show through for a bit without judgement. Having a trusted friend who you can do this with (or even just coming on this thread and venting occasionally) can be a huge help, and can sometimes help you keep your depression from interfering with other parts of your life.

----------


## Adaon Nightwind

..Um, Asmotherion, you do realise that your statement is somewhat equivalent to: "I do not get being poor. You just need some money, or a lot of it, then you are not poor."


There is a proverb: "Problems that we are not working on, will work in ourselves." You might be lucky and/or strong enough to not need to face your inner demons, or not have any. In that case, power be to you. For those of us who are struggling, though, therapy was and is being developed to help those in need.

Therapy in and of itself can not yield results, that is true. The inner work has to be done by the patient. A good therapist can guide you to your problems. A great one can offer ways to work on them, can find words to help you find your own words. But the workload is still on the patient. And said patient is usually not in the position to actually work on him- or herself a lot, due to many factors which contributed to the mental stress in the first place. Sometimes those living conditions need to be changed first. And sometimes, that is simply not possible.

And then there are the Therapists who want quick solutions, who do not listen, who have a fixed idea themselves about the person in front of them and do not even realise it, who are stuck on a one-way-process-mindset.. or in some cases are even malicious.

Still. I only got forward when i spoke to someone, when i knew that my voice was being heard. And i was lucky enough some great people, who happened to be therapists, were among them and answered. People who saw what i hate about myself.. and are still part of my life.

Not just bringing those hateful thoughts to the front. Being there for me when i try to overcome them.

A good therapist is never your friend. But they can be there for you.

If you are lucky enough to have friends as well, who will be there week after week, year after year, then yeah.. you are indeed lucky. Sometimes, all we have is a friendly voice out in the darkness.

Do not discourage those who found such a voice. If the therapy in question is indeed a vicious cycle of self-loathing.. then it is not a therapy worth its name.

----------


## Asmotherion

> ..Um, Asmotherion, you do realise that your statement is somewhat equivalent to: "I do not get being poor. You just need some money, or a lot of it, then you are not poor."
> 
> 
> There is a proverb: "Problems that we are not working on, will work in ourselves." You might be lucky and/or strong enough to not need to face your inner demons, or not have any. In that case, power be to you. For those of us who are struggling, though, therapy was and is being developed to help those in need.
> 
> Therapy in and of itself can not yield results, that is true. The inner work has to be done by the patient. A good therapist can guide you to your problems. A great one can offer ways to work on them, can find words to help you find your own words. But the workload is still on the patient. And said patient is usually not in the position to actually work on him- or herself a lot, due to many factors which contributed to the mental stress in the first place. Sometimes those living conditions need to be changed first. And sometimes, that is simply not possible.
> 
> And then there are the Therapists who want quick solutions, who do not listen, who have a fixed idea themselves about the person in front of them and do not even realise it, who are stuck on a one-way-process-mindset.. or in some cases are even malicious.
> 
> ...


i don't discourage anything or encourage anything. i'm just raising a point that some things are better left buried deep in yourself as long as you're highly functional rather than focused on and turn you into a shell of yourself. 

if it's helping you process things in life good for you. However some people don't need a total stranger digging through their personal experiances and pushing them through a guilt trip. 

As for strong friendships i believe one of the founding stones is sharing your pains with them and be there for theirs. Sure there will be some that will eventually prove they were not worth your time but that's how life is: learning through trial and error. There will also be people who amaze you by being there for you.

----------


## The Fury

> You've done no such thing. Apology not necessary. What is this thread for, after all, but to air grievances and talk with people about them?
> 
> I think all that's happened is you brought up an issue (bad trainers) that people feel passionately about, myself included. If you felt anger in some of the responses, be assured it wasn't towards you but rather your coworker/trainer.


Oh, OK. I guess I imagine that when I feel bad I'm also behaving badly. I apologize that I sort of have to be vague on details, but part of the job does entail some tasks that, if done improperly, could seriously hurt someone. The latest coaching I got is that I usually need help with these tasks and I should be able to do them on my own.

I think at this point it's fair to say that I'm a poor fit for this job. I turned in my two weeks notice today.




> We all slip at times, and starting a new job is stressful. One thing I might recommend is instead of focusing on "not letting it show", give yourself a place/time where you can let it all show through for a bit without judgement. Having a trusted friend who you can do this with (or even just coming on this thread and venting occasionally) can be a huge help, and can sometimes help you keep your depression from interfering with other parts of your life.


I wish I could share stuff like this with close friends, I really do. The difficulty is that they seem to prefer that I didn't. As it is my depression and anxiety already colors my entire personality. Even my whole thing with "not letting it show" is more of a coping mechanism, (which seems to be breaking down.) So I try telling jokes to keep from being so sad all the time and I talk a lot when I'm nervous, (I'm hardly ever _not_ nervous.) So folks usually get the wrong idea about me and it  catches them off guard when I say something related to feeling hopeless and disposable. 

I think what's different now is that I'm _visibly_ depressed, to the point that I've been asked by random strangers on the street if I was alright. More than once, even. I'm not sure that I'm OK with this.

----------


## WarKitty

So it turns out, after me getting very irritated with a therapist, that I have ADHD.  And I've been talking to other femaleish persons about this.  It's apparently a definite and very common problem; the initial diagnosis for people seen as female is usually anxiety, or depression, or sometimes bipolar.  It often takes quite some time to get a proper diagnosis.

The meds actually are helping a bit.  But I just feel frustrated.  It was very clear that the initial person they had me seeing didn't believe me when I said that it wasn't anxiety.  It was clear that the process she was going on was to try to guide me to understanding how my underlying anxiety and distorted thinking were causing my inability to focus, so we could work on that in therapy.  If it had been before, at a time when I wasn't so confident and had a decent idea of what I was looking at and was confident in my ability to just refuse to do anxiety treatment again, it wouldn't have helped at all.  And we'd likely have ended up going down the same route of trying to dig deeper and deeper to find the root of my anxiety

Some of my prior noncompliance symptoms were probably also ADHD related.  Some of it's stuff like repeatedly losing homework from therapy or forgetting it.  Therapists generally treated this like some sort of resistance to therapy specifically.  Some of it might be just trying to explore my anxieties around certain issues.  Turns out the answer "I don't know, I just can't get my brain to do that!" was actually the right one.  But again, that's not an ok answer in therapy.

----------


## 2D8HP

> So it turns out, after me getting very irritated with a therapist, that I have ADHD....



How did you find that out for sure?

----------


## WarKitty

> How did you find that out for sure?


Chewing out people until someone finally agreed to let me see a psychiatrist and actually screen for ADHD rather than just giving me the same old lecture on anxiety?

----------


## darkrose50

> Chewing out people until someone finally agreed to let me see a psychiatrist and actually screen for ADHD rather than just giving me the same old lecture on anxiety?


*Pulls up a folding-chair and sits down all backwards like you do when explaining stuff.*

Some ADHD medications are magic.  They will focus you to an amazing point.

I have ADHD, and was able to work a 90-hour-week with only occasional hallucinations (well one . . . at the end of the week I saw a bolder while walking between the garage and the house).  I was a money-making machine that week (the busy time of the year for us).

On vacation housekeeping stole my ADHD medication.  Evidently the kids buy/sell them for ~$3 a pill (the housekeeper stole like $150-$200 in street value worth of pills).  They let you stay up all night and study with focus.  Well evidently they work differently on different people (those without ADHD, those with ADHD, and everything in between), so mostly don't become too concerned that you will be up all night, and never sleep.  You only will not-sleep if you take too much too late at night . . . so don't do that.

Also . . . you know . . . meth adjacent . . . but you know . . . medical meth.  Not nearly as bad at the medical heroin, and *it has been around a lot longer* (and no waves of addicted people dying).  It is still a controlled substance.  So there is that.

Definitely do not double dose . . . you will hear voices.  I did once on accident, and thought voices were coming though the vents.  Very interesting stuff.

Also it is totally illegal in Japan . . . so you would need to get special permission to bring the medication into the country.

All-in-all a good deal to not be distracted by squirrels like that dog in Disney's Up.  Your work performance will likely skyrocket.

----------


## 2D8HP

> Chewing out people until someone finally agreed to let me see a psychiatrist and actually screen for ADHD rather than just giving me the same old lecture on anxiety?



So you had an idea that you may have been suffering from it before, how?

----------


## WarKitty

> So you had an idea that you may have been suffering from it before, how?


Friend/old roommate who has it has pointed out I have a lot of the same symptoms.  And I'd' kind of already figured that there was some stuff that just didn't work for me that seems to work for everyone else, and when I'd gone looking for other solutions it turns out a lot of them are good solutions for people with ADHD.*  And then I started googling for symptoms and found out that (1) a lot of mine matched, especially when you take into account gender presentation differences, and (2) it's apparently really amazingly common for the initial diagnosis to be anxiety.

*Special mention here to a blog called "a slob comes clean" and a bit of cleaning/organization help that's much more focused around people with attention problems.  Like, stop thinking about where something ought to go, observe where it usually ends up, and then put storage there.

----------


## ve4grm

> Friend/old roommate who has it has pointed out I have a lot of the same symptoms.  And I'd' kind of already figured that there was some stuff that just didn't work for me that seems to work for everyone else, and when I'd gone looking for other solutions it turns out a lot of them are good solutions for people with ADHD.*  And then I started googling for symptoms and found out that (1) a lot of mine matched, especially when you take into account gender presentation differences, and (2) it's apparently really amazingly common for the initial diagnosis to be anxiety.
> 
> *Special mention here to a blog called "a slob comes clean" and a bit of cleaning/organization help that's much more focused around people with attention problems.  Like, stop thinking about where something ought to go, observe where it usually ends up, and then put storage there.


Huh. Yeah, that makes a fair amount of sense. I've known a few people with ADHD, so I know that in adults it gets misdiagnosed as anxiety a lot.




> Some of my prior noncompliance symptoms were probably also ADHD related. Some of it's stuff like repeatedly losing homework from therapy or forgetting it.


I know that when I figured out that my own issues were OCD related, I started to see the patterns in my previous behaviour. It really helped me come to terms with a lot of things that were previously unexplained and stressful because of it.

Good for you, though! Both in going in to see someone (which must have been hard) and having a plan to move forward. I hope that this diagnosis and medication (you may need to go through a few meds before you find the right one, but hopefully it's fast) helps you get to a better place to deal with the other stressors in your life as well.

----------


## Ornithologist

That's pretty similar how i figured out my Asperger's was an over all thing. Though in my case it was a documentary on mental issues. I watched once or twice for fun, with a few comments on the lines of "Huh, I do some of that stuff." Eventually it clicked, and I just had to go back and watch that section again. "Man, I do a ton of that stuff don't I!"

----------


## HalfTangible

We got a diagnosis from a therapist that mom insists was not actually a therapist (piss in my ear and tell me it's raining why don'tcha)

My mother later found a book on aspergers and said "this is literally you [HalfTangible]."

I read the book and agreed, this is literally me.

----------


## HalfTangible

The problem with celibacy as opposed to asexuality is that even though you (mentally and emotionally) don't want a relationship, you still (physically and emotionally) want a relationship. It's annoying and I hate it.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> The problem with celibacy as opposed to asexuality is that even though you (mentally and emotionally) don't want a relationship, you still (physically and emotionally) want a relationship. It's annoying and I hate it.


That sounds difficult to go through. I don't know what to do with the physical issue, but certainly friendship helps with the companionship.

----------


## Recherché

So bit of an odd situation here. I have a semi-friend who I sometimes like but who also seriously gets on my nerves at times. He's also provoked a fair few mental health issues with me. Because of this I'd been trying to create some distance and some boundaries to stop further incidents. 

Then I had a major panic attack/ general mental breakdown. During said mental breakdown, I sent him a bunch of texts apologizing to him for me being emotionally toxic and hurting his feelings. I was not particularly coherent and I was blaming myself for everything that has gone wrong in my life. He unfortunately took those texts as absolutely sincere.

How in the world do I walk this back? "Sorry I was victim blaming myself during a panic attack when I sent that. I really believe that you're the one to blame here."

----------


## Gallowglass

In February of this year, I was in a car accident. I was stopped at a light. It turned green. As normal, two cars in the opposing left hand turn went through it. I started through the light. As I was halfway through, the other car ran the red left turn light, narrowly avoided the front end of the car in the lane next two me and slammed into the side of my car.

	My car was ruined. The entire front end side was caved in. My airbags deployed. I got out and went to check to see if the other driver was okay.

	She was young and obviously shaken. She explained that she was looking at her phone for directions and didn't know she had gone through the red light. That changed to "thought she was okay to make it" later on. She seemed physically okay though. I called 911 and reported the accident. 

	Eventually the cops showed up, then the fire department. Then tow trucks. All the set pieces. I called my wife to come get me. As we waited I talked to the young woman. She was scared. She had only liability and wanted to know if that would fix her car. I explained what liability insurance was. She didn't know how she was going to get to work. Her boyfriend wouldn't come get her. She had no family. 

	I felt bad for her. I explained to her how to use the Phoenix Bus System. I asked where she lived and where she worked and showed her the bus routes between them. I tried to make her feel okay about it. 

	When the police came, she admitted her fault. We explained the accident to him. He filed his report. I got her insurance and filed a claim for my car while we waited. 

	Days passed. I kept calling her insurance. They kept telling me they hadn't been able to get a hold of their insured. After a week, I received a letter that my car would be forfeit if I didn't get it from the tow yard. I had no place to store it. I ended up having to file a claim on my own insurance so that I could move this forward. My car was totaled. I received enough money (barely) to pay it off. 

	 Instead of having a car for trade in value, and a car for a few years post car payments, I ended up at square one like I was with I was 18. 

	 I filed a DOI complaint against the adverse carrier. My insurance company said they would subrogate and, if the other insurance company was at fault, it wouldn't affect my rates. 

	 Now, 6 months later, I received a letter from the DOI. Thankfully, its the only windows I have into what happened. 

	 The young woman cancelled her policy, ducked calls. Her insurance company finally got a hold of her a full 14 days after I last talked to them and she lied to make it seem like it wasn't her fault. Her insurance company got a hold of the police report. It took until June before they admitted fault. They admitted fault but only paid my insurance company a portion of the cost they paid me. Oh well. It shouldn't affect my rates I guess.

	 I felt sorry for that young woman. Now, I don't. I hope she lost her job. I hope she lost her apartment. I hope she lost her boyfriend. I hope she's homeless, scared, alone and suffering.

----------


## Sermil

> So bit of an odd situation here. I have a semi-friend who I sometimes like but who also seriously gets on my nerves at times. He's also provoked a fair few mental health issues with me. Because of this I'd been trying to create some distance and some boundaries to stop further incidents. 
> 
> Then I had a major panic attack/ general mental breakdown. During said mental breakdown, I sent him a bunch of texts apologizing to him for me being emotionally toxic and hurting his feelings. I was not particularly coherent and I was blaming myself for everything that has gone wrong in my life. He unfortunately took those texts as absolutely sincere.
> 
> How in the world do I walk this back? "Sorry I was victim blaming myself during a panic attack when I sent that. I really believe that you're the one to blame here."


I don't think you need to place any blame here. Just say "Hey, I was having a pretty bad panic attack when I sent those texts. They don't represent my real feelings; please just pretend I didn't send them."

You can also just say things like "I've been having a rough time lately, and need to withdraw a bit to focus on myself and my health" without saying "I need to withdraw _from you_". Keep the message focused on yourself, not on what the friend did or didn't do. 

IMHO, since I don't know exactly what you said.

----------


## Mith

> I don't think you need to place any blame here. Just say "Hey, I was having a pretty bad panic attack when I sent those texts. They don't represent my real feelings; please just pretend I didn't send them."
> 
> You can also just say things like "I've been having a rough time lately, and need to withdraw a bit to focus on myself and my health" without saying "I need to withdraw _from you_". Keep the message focused on yourself, not on what the friend did or didn't do. 
> 
> IMHO, since I don't know exactly what you said.


Much better advice than anything I could think of.  While this isn't my issue, I also try and absorb advice given to others here both to help curate my own advice, and to help with my own issues in life.  Especially when I am stuck on what to say to other people.

----------


## Ornithologist

> I was in a car accident. -snip-


That sounds exceedingly like a pain in the butt, at least you got some resolution out of it. My fun out of context accident story is as follows. Because of the city where I live , my last accident was listed on the insurance paperwork as being rear-ended by non-moving city property of which I was not at fault for. Its basically the excuse a drunk would make when saying "The tree just jumped out at me!"

What happened is that we had just had a 1 and a half ft blizzard, and I was headed into work. (Its Colorado normal weather. I don't stay home until there's almost three ft.) The light at a 4 way stop just turned green and I started moving, with a city plow behind me. Suddenly A red Pickup barreled through the cross ways traffic, would have killed me if I had been a bit forward. I stop in time, but the plow behind me couldn't stop. It was a mounted onto a large dump truck, and there was zero traction there. Cut a large line through my whole  tailgate. Anyway, It turns out that the cities insurance policy/local laws state that any slow/stopping city vehicle (Plow, Dump Truck, City bus etc) moving slow during its regular duties (plowing, picking up trash, picking up passengers) and is involved in an accident It is considered "non-moving city property" because it cannot be held liable for doing its normal job. Luckily, it worked out for me and though it took almost 6 months because every auto-body place in the city was swamped the city did repair it. The only really annoying thing about it was no one got the info of the guy in the red pickup.




> I don't think you need to place any blame here. Just say "Hey, I was having a pretty bad panic attack when I sent those texts. They don't represent my real feelings; please just pretend I didn't send them."
> 
> You can also just say things like "I've been having a rough time lately, and need to withdraw a bit to focus on myself and my health" without saying "I need to withdraw _from you_". Keep the message focused on yourself, not on what the friend did or didn't do. 
> 
> IMHO, since I don't know exactly what you said.


Going to also third the suggestion of saying withdrawing without mentioning that last bit.

----------


## The Fury

So... with my job issues, I feel like there's some things that I didn't understand properly that make my coworker a little less frustrating.

Firstly, he is _not_ a trainer. In fact this job has no training. You're just sort of tossed into the thick of it to figure it out. If that seems cruel, I'm told that it's pretty common in trade professions to handle things that way. So he in actuality had every right to be frustrated and not willing to help me out, because in truth, that is not his job. I know that I gave an account that suggested that it was, but that was my misunderstanding and mistake. 

After I turned in my two weeks, my manager actually talked me out of quitting though. We'll see if I can make it to three months.

----------


## Iruka

> So... with my job issues, I feel like there's some things that I didn't understand properly that make my coworker a little less frustrating.
> 
> Firstly, he is _not_ a trainer. In fact this job has no training. You're just sort of tossed into the thick of it to figure it out. If that seems cruel, I'm told that it's pretty common in trade professions to handle things that way. So he in actuality had every right to be frustrated and not willing to help me out, because in truth, that is not his job. I know that I gave an account that suggested that it was, but that was my misunderstanding and mistake. 
> 
> After I turned in my two weeks, my manager actually talked me out of quitting though. We'll see if I can make it to three months.


This 'no training' policy is completely idiotic and you can hardly be blamed for assuming you would recieve some kind of introduction to your tasks. _Especially_ for trade professions it seems weird.

Looking on the bright side, your manager is apparently satisfied with your performance. You are not a dead weight he wants to get rid of. Instead he took the effort to talk you into staying. Keep at it!
A number of people I know (myself included) felt quite overwhelmed when starting a job and thought about quitting. It gets better.

----------


## The Fury

> This 'no training' policy is completely idiotic and you can hardly be blamed for assuming you would recieve some kind of introduction to your tasks. _Especially_ for trade professions it seems weird.


It can make sense in its own twisted sort of way. Even if you need people, you need the _right_ people. Throwing someone in to see what they can do seems... maybe not a great way, but _a_ way of figuring it out. I was hoping for more instruction than "this is how the timeclock works" though. 




> Looking on the bright side, your manager is apparently satisfied with your performance. You are not a dead weight he wants to get rid of. Instead he took the effort to talk you into staying. Keep at it!
> A number of people I know (myself included) felt quite overwhelmed when starting a job and thought about quitting. It gets better.


Yes and no. I'm getting better at some things, though I still get made fun of for not knowing stuff. I'm still pretty weak on what manufacturer-specific jargon I _should_ understand, and what industry-specific jargon only a few other people understand.

----------


## ve4grm

> So... with my job issues, I feel like there's some things that I didn't understand properly that make my coworker a little less frustrating.
> 
> Firstly, he is _not_ a trainer. In fact this job has no training. You're just sort of tossed into the thick of it to figure it out. If that seems cruel, I'm told that it's pretty common in trade professions to handle things that way. So he in actuality had every right to be frustrated and not willing to help me out, because in truth, that is not his job. I know that I gave an account that suggested that it was, but that was my misunderstanding and mistake.


That does make a lot more sense. I assume this wasn't something he had much notice for, or experience with. He may not be great with people. In this case, please redirect my frustration towards the employer, rather than the coworker, for giving no training.

As for how common that is in trades professions? In my experience, trades don't just throw you into the deep end, but that's because most trades around here are structured in a journeyman/apprentice sort of fashion. If yours isn't, then I'm not sure what the standard is, but basic safety training at a minimum seems like it would be mandatory.




> Looking on the bright side, your manager is apparently satisfied with your performance. You are not a dead weight he wants to get rid of. Instead he took the effort to talk you into staying. Keep at it!





> Yes and no. I'm getting better at some things, though I still get made fun of for not knowing stuff. I'm still pretty weak on what manufacturer-specific jargon I _should_ understand, and what industry-specific jargon only a few other people understand.


100% what Iruka said. If you were actually underperforming, in ANY way, the manager would never have tried to convince you to stay. The fact they did means that you're doing fine. Probably better than average, if they actually put in that effort.

Jargon and knowledge comes with time. And unfortunately, hazing the new person comes hand in hand with a lot of trades jobs. Asking the new employee to go fetch a "sky hook" or similar object that doesn't exist, solely to make fun of them for wasting time because they don't know the jargon yet, is still very common on construction sites, in the military, and more. (Whether or not it's a fetch quest, it's the same idea.)

So you should know that this kind of mockery doesn't actually have any bearing on whether or not the coworkers like you. They likely do it to everyone who comes through. It sucks, and is a workplace mentality that it would be great to change, but it's there and it generally doesn't signify anything.

----------


## Grytorm

How cam I convince myself that I am not a jerk. I spent twenty minutes this morning after doing some volunteer stuff hiding behind a fence after recieving mipd social sanction because I should have picked up/shook out a rug before sweeping. And I could have spent that time talking to anyone. Which really doesnt make me seem like a jerk. 

What kind of makes me feel like a jerk is the patterns in who I talk to and how after the volunteer thing is done I sort of mostly talk to the women I have crushes on (only one man works on staff so it is slightly less dumb). And really it appears I end up having crushes on almost any woman who is near my age that I talk to enough about things that interest me. And I tend to be more concientous about asking questions/discussing things not related to my interests which is good. 

But usually I learn that they are already in a relationship and end up avoiding them because I consider myself an awful person even if they more likely than not had no idea of my idiocy.

----------


## Mith

> Asking the new employee to go fetch a "sky hook" or similar object that doesn't exist, solely to make fun of them for wasting time because they don't know the jargon yet, is still very common on construction sites, in the military, and more. (Whether or not it's a fetch quest, it's the same idea.)


That particular joke may backfire when the individual involved starts dealing with cranes...

----------


## Ornithologist

> How cam I convince myself that I am not a jerk. I spent twenty minutes this morning after doing some volunteer stuff hiding behind a fence after recieving mipd social sanction because I should have picked up/shook out a rug before sweeping. And I could have spent that time talking to anyone. Which really doesnt make me seem like a jerk. 
> 
> What kind of makes me feel like a jerk is the patterns in who I talk to and how after the volunteer thing is done I sort of mostly talk to the women I have crushes on (only one man works on staff so it is slightly less dumb). And really it appears I end up having crushes on almost any woman who is near my age that I talk to enough about things that interest me. And I tend to be more concientous about asking questions/discussing things not related to my interests which is good. 
> 
> But usually I learn that they are already in a relationship and end up avoiding them because I consider myself an awful person even if they more likely than not had no idea of my idiocy.


Luckily for you, in my experience, anyone who asks if they are a jerk usually isn't. Something you could try is to ask someone on the staff (that you trust) if they think you are or not. If they say no, then all is fine, and if they say yes... Then you can ask follow up questions. When did I do it? What could I have done differently? Also, Apologize if you need too.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> How cam I convince myself that I am not a jerk. I spent twenty minutes this morning after doing some volunteer stuff hiding behind a fence after recieving mipd social sanction because I should have picked up/shook out a rug before sweeping. And I could have spent that time talking to anyone. Which really doesnt make me seem like a jerk. 
> 
> What kind of makes me feel like a jerk is the patterns in who I talk to and how after the volunteer thing is done I sort of mostly talk to the women I have crushes on (only one man works on staff so it is slightly less dumb). And really it appears I end up having crushes on almost any woman who is near my age that I talk to enough about things that interest me. And I tend to be more concientous about asking questions/discussing things not related to my interests which is good. 
> 
> But usually I learn that they are already in a relationship and end up avoiding them because I consider myself an awful person even if they more likely than not had no idea of my idiocy.


I'm not sure why any of this except disappearing when someone had a boyfriend could be construed as bring a jerk. Everyone likes people who share interests and are happy to see you/engage in conversation with you. That is the basis of most friendships.

Having a crush on a friend is perfectly normal as well. When you find out they are in a relationship stay friends with them, it will help you make more friends and help you seperate the desire for friendship from the desire for a relationship. The more time you spend being friends with women the better.

----------


## Chen

> I'm not sure why any of this except disappearing when someone had a boyfriend could be construed as bring a jerk.


Honestly even this doesnt need to jerkish behavior as long as youre reasonable about it. You also need to be honest with yourself. Are you trying to be friends or just looking for a romantic partner. Finding a romantic partner at work/volunteering has a few inherent perils but isnt strictly a problem in and of itself.

----------


## Grytorm

I think sometimes my interest is in finding friends and sometimes I am looking for a romantic partner. I think one thing that makes a difference is that I can usually find what someone else is interested in interesting but it is harder to maintain that interest. So, I guess I want friends to be more interesting than romantic partners? But that isn't necessarily true given that my main friend isn't super interested gaming stuff but she finds most of what I talk about to be interesting. 

In general the reason I tend to withdraw when I could definitely be friends with someone is because of my poor social skills, depression and social anxiety. So with the latest person that happened with I silently freaked out and convinced myself that I shouldn't talk to her because it made me some sort of creep. And to be fair I have acted as a creep at least once during a study abroad program. My reaction to realizing that stupidity involved talking as little as possible and trying to not looking directly at anyone for a week. All the stupidity from that period cost me some potential friendships and good experiences because I avoided everyone connected to that incident to that. And I preemptively blocked one other person that I had a crush on that could have been a friend so I would never be tempted to be a creep and interact with them.

Truthfully, thinking of all the women I have had crushes on. It makes me feel like a creep.

----------


## Comrade

> In general the reason I tend to withdraw when I could definitely be friends with someone is because of my poor social skills, depression and social anxiety. So with the latest person that happened with I silently freaked out and convinced myself that I shouldn't talk to her because it made me some sort of creep. And to be fair I have acted as a creep at least once during a study abroad program. My reaction to realizing that stupidity involved talking as little as possible and trying to not looking directly at anyone for a week. All the stupidity from that period cost me some potential friendships and good experiences because I avoided everyone connected to that incident to that. And I preemptively blocked one other person that I had a crush on that could have been a friend so I would never be tempted to be a creep and interact with them.
> 
> Truthfully, thinking of all the women I have had crushes on. It makes me feel like a creep.


When you talk about feeling/being/acting like a 'creep' what exactly do you mean?

----------


## Grytorm

Most of the time it is just very bad self talk. Feelings of hopelessness and shame telling me that I am a terrible person and that my presence is a blight upon people around me who only tolerate me out of social responsibility. If I am not feeling longwinded I just think people find me/would find me disgusting and that they secretly hate me.

As for the time I definitely acted as a creep I accept responsibility but will outline the event and the contributing factors of why I did very stupid stuff. What I did was two things. I had a crush on a woman (maybe I should just call the women I have crushes on gals) who was in a study abroad program with me. We were in the more advanced group of seven people so we all new each other. The first and worst stupid thing I did was try and take inappropriate pictures of her. I didn't stray into peeping tom territory but I did take some pictures down her shirt. A few days later I deleted them. The second big thing I did happened when the internet was out and I was being my usual nonsocially connected self. I sent her text messages which were weird, rambling and inappropriate. I don't think I strayed into anything lewd but I certainly stated I had a crush and I at-least referred to the pictures as something stupid I had done. In addition I talked about depression. She talked to the orginizer person about this and how it made her uncomfortable. He talked to me about how what I had done was innapropriate and how if I was dealing with mental health issues I shouldn't bring it up with other students and should talk to him about what help was available. I spent the next five days in a state of intense self loathing. When I came out of it I wanted to talk to her a little about it. Mostly I wanted to say that I wished she had sent a message back before I got to far in asking me to stop. I think I would have. But she did not owe me the courtesy. Things reset to normal for the next several weeks though I did try and avoid spending too much time with her. Near the end of the program I sent some stupid public messages, I think they were about how frustrated I was about something involving this whole incident. I did get told off. I think she mentioned that she only told the organizer person because of the depression stuff. That she knew how to handle jerks. After this last outburst of mine I withdrew into the extreme self loathing avoidance pattern. It didn't matter much because this happened at the very end of the program so I didn't have to face them much longer. I know at least one of them noticed but I avoided him. After this when I went back to the university I felt somewhat better but any encounter with people of the program left me terrified and I would go out of my way to avoid them.

As for the contributing factors to this stupid. When I first sent the messages I had no access to the internet and wanted to try being social instead of retreating to the house of my host family and not interacting with my cohort. In addition when I went on the study abroad program I had decided I wanted to try to be more social. I have what feels like very few friends where I live and little contact with people my age. I know I don't tend to try and build connections with other people so I thought I should be more forthright about stuff. This backfired horribly just like a previous attempt to be more assertive/constructive. Last, something that I can't exactly place before or after the stupid stated, I kind of gave up on my best friend. I didn't have very many friends in general and at that moment I think their was only one I was trying to stay in touch with. I of course had a crush on her in high school but I was mostly past that. Most of our interaction after that point had been on the public bus too and from the community college we were both going to. Gradually this fell through (along with all my other delusional friendships on the bus) as she became more busy and drove too and from the university. She rarely had time to respond to messages. Eventually I tried to reach out to near friends more assertively. It backfired horribly. One of the two people I tried a new strategy on called me out for being rude and trying to make her feel guilty about having a full schedule. My close friend didn't respond right away but when I mentioned the other friends reaction she agreed that I had been a jerk to throw needy guilt trip stuff at her. This might have been the last time we talked. After that I tried sending messages on facebook often. She never responded. And during the trip I looked at this, looked at how often I had tried to talk to her, finally realized that she just didn't want to talk to me. I blocked her because of this, but I didn't think I was doing it because I was upset with her. I blocked her because it seemed clear to me that I was not wanted as a friend and that all my attempts to contact her had been me being a terrible person. In my conception at the time I was blocking her so I wouldn't be tempted to keep hurting her. Also I took the opportunity to about 90% of the people on my friends list because I never talked to them and the same principle of not harming others with my presence applied.

----------


## Ornithologist

I think a therapist might be helpful to you. Some of them are specialized in building social skills, and most will help you talk through the negative self image. Though you could likely be in the same boat as me, in that I can afford to look up where their office is... In all seriousness, it sounds like you are noticing yourself doing things that you don't like. That is really one of the bigger things you need to do make those things go away.

----------


## WarKitty

Still frustrated with ADHD stuff.  Or well, prior experiences of it.

I don't like the fact that I had to essentially seek out a diagnosis on my own (with suggestions from friends) and then get upset at a therapist in order to actually get somewhere.  Changing the code on the paperwork from GAD to ADHD changes the framework to one where, at least on that front, I'm suddenly seen as actually competent in reporting my own internal experience.  It shifts me from the "bad patient" who is resisting the expert's attempts to lead them to a proper understanding of their disorder, to a credible and active participant in being able to report their own experience and make informed decisions about treatment.

Nothing about me has changed.  I just have the right official stamp of approval now, the right words to say to legitimize myself.  Without the right label, my experience was considered distorted.  At worst I was simply being lazy and dishonest.  But even the destigmatized views of mental illness put me in a position where my experience of my own difficulties and limitations was the result of lack of insight. 

Dealing with traumatic experiences in therapy felt very similar.  There was no real respect for my experiences and views of the world.  Models of resistance and defense mechanisms created an environment where any protest was another aspect of the disorder.  The therapist's experience of the world was representative and normative; mine was aberrant.  Being a good patient meant accepting the therapist's diagnosis and view of what normal should look like.  My beliefs and views were diseased and healing came from only accepting that.  Not accepting one's diagnosis or the plan forward made one a bad patient, someone who was resisting getting better.  And that made you a bad person in society too.  You weren't going through the right steps to get better, so you didn't deserve help or support.

I do not appreciate that.  I don't like living in a society that hands the power to define my credibility over like that.  I don't accept that illness is necessarily a good or realistic way to see psychological pain.  And I don't think that being a mental health professional ought to mean you get to decide if someone else is actually rational or not.  But it seems there's no way around that I'll have to deal with that all my life.

----------


## The Fury

Some stuff has been coming up lately that I don't understand how to deal with. It's been suggest a few times that I should go back to therapy. Around here, I'm not exactly private about the fact that I'm usually in a pretty dark place mentally, so therapy makes sense. At least as far as advice that someone might give. 

So I started thinking back to why my last therapists didn't work out. I feel like they had different goals for me than what I did. I've mentioned before that I used to want to make comic books, it didn't end well for me. I feel like it would be better if I could let go and move on, but all of the therapists I've had tried to get me to go back to it. I get why, they're trying to be encouraging and helpful. Giving me a push in an emotionally fulfilling direction. To me though it just feels like reopening something that never quite healed.

An artist whose social media I follow started posting excerpts from a project she's doing, about Actualizing Your Creative Desires. Again, she's trying to do something positive, helpful and encouraging and it seems to work for people that are not me. For me though, it just made me really upset. As much as I'd like to move on from my unfortunate stint as a cartoonist and do something constructive with my life, I feel like reality is actively fighting me. (Yes, I know how crazy that sounds.)

----------


## darkrose50

They are flying in trainers ~800-miles from home office today.  They are not insurance agent trainers, but are customer service trainers.  I wanted to show my new managers the manual that they made for us last year, but EVERYONE threw it away.  

We will likely spend half the day role-playing (not the good kind) on how to talk to people over the phone . . . what we do every day.  

We will likely ask a bunch of insurance agent questions that they will not know the answers to.  They will take the questions down, and tell us that they will get back to us, and then never do.  About 20% of the time they will bring an insurance agent manager who knows stuff.

They will likely hand out charts full of copious mistakes.   Other than the wrong information here or there, they will often forget titles and years.  The year for a chart is crazy important, as things change from year-to-year (printed on stacks of vinyl).  2019 prices, and 2020 prices could be wildly different.  They will use different terms for the same thing, and not explain why (aside from being confusing to me, it is confusing to the customer even more).  They will toss in *'s and not explain what they mean.

It drives my OCD nuts.

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## Illven

Id be better off dead.

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## HalfTangible

> Id be better off dead.


That isn't true.

----------


## The Fury

> Id be better off dead.


Why do you say that? Don't get me wrong, I've felt that way too. Even if it feels true, it isn't.

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## WarKitty

> Id be better off dead.


I've been there.  It will pass.

I hope I'm not being nosy but I looked at your post history.  You mentioned the anniversary of your mom's death.  That sounds like a pretty hard time - I don't know how long it's been or how close you were or anything, of course.  But I know that's a pretty emotional time for a lot of people.

You don't need to worry about the future right now.  Just take it one day at a time and make sure you get enough good food and some sleep as best you can.

----------


## FinnLassie

Grandpa's memory has plummeted. He now is off to take care of our foals and horses as he visits the farm.

The last horses were put down in 2014.

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## sktarq

That kind of deterioration is...hard...and can be emotionally devastating for the people close to the person. 

I hope you have people close to you that can support you through this. 
And don't be afraid to talk about some of the big questions of what-is-self, the emotion that i can only call anticipatory-grief, etc even if those topics don't seem totally relevant. They are. Those kinds of thoughts and having to psychologically deal with them are important. Just as much as him being frustrating or the like. 

And also hope that you still have some time when he is aware and lucid...treasure it, drink every moment while you can. As hard as it can be to watch, regretting avoiding it is likely to be worse in the future. 


If you have not dealt with it before...very much pick your battles...unless it is going to be an active problem (like unsafe driving for example) don't be pushy about having to correct everything, its not worth it.

Sadly there is often not as much classical social support for this kind of deterioration and loss as there is for say, a sudden death in the family etc. So things can get weird.

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## FinnLassie

Thanks. I've been expecting this, but it still hurts. I've not been able to visit my grandparents since, oh hell, May or June? And now this summer things have taken a turn, and clearly September hasn't served him any better.

His memory has been finicky for a couple of years now. I've been the person reporting my family about the changes - up until this summer, I made sure to visit them every 2-3 months. But after last christmas, when gramps had a... sort of a seizure due to his specific form of arthritis, I've just not recovered from it. It's still super painful. It feels awful.

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## sktarq

Yeah...it will feel awful. 

Not much youcan directly do. 
Depending on how aware he is of the problem and what the nature of it is, keeping mentally active with things like puzzles etc may slow it down, but its kinda late to make such changes but may be worth seeing a doctor about. 

Be strong, 
Don't be all stereotypical silent suffering Scandinavian - talk to people (friends, hopefully councilors at uni, a priest if that's your deal) 

i wish you all the best, PM if you need, 
And you have my sympathies

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## FinnLassie

It's kinda hard to be like those pesky Scandinavians, when I'm not one.  :Small Wink:  Finland's not a part of Scandinavia, but the Nordic countries.

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## sktarq

> It's kinda hard to be like those pesky Scandinavians, when I'm not one.  Finland's not a part of Scandinavia, but the Nordic countries.


Yeah....but I thought you were from Bergen

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## HalfTangible

Had a bit of an episode last night. I curled up into myself in my hotel room (I was at a convention) and started saying "I don't deserve to live" over and over and couldn't stop for a few minutes. I sobbed into my pillows for a while, felt worthless and alone. 2 hours before that I'd been happy and skipping around Delta H Con, enjoying myself. It wasn't set off by anything in particular as far as I can tell, it just kinda happened.

I'm feeling better now. Talked with some friends about it. One of them pointed out to me that my mood has been on a downward trend for months, and I've talking every morning about things I don't wanna bring up here. It didn't feel like a big deal in isolation, just something I had to deal with when I woke up in the morning, but the fact that it kept happening often enough that she'd noticed it as a trend was... a bit of an eye opener.

I thought I'd been doing better, and in some ways I have. But others... not so much.

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## sktarq

What is it about me when I'm barely barely holding it together, want to scream in grief from a death in family, that suddenly makes me far more approachable for small talk by total strangers? 
Normally I wouldn't mind.
But now?

----------


## Recherché

My father died less than a month ago and people I barely know keep trying to be buddies with me and asking me to talk about it. I think they mean well but its still more emotionally distressing than helpful. I have my people that I'm close to. They're the people I'm crying with. They're the ones who know that I can't sleep because I keep having nightmares about his body. The acquaintances who keep trying to be helpful are not them and it brings up the pain more than it helps.

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## sktarq

Weirdly that sounds like a time when social rituals could be helpful....and I'm sorry for your loss...that sounds like it hurts.

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## toysailor

Revisiting some of my old internet hangouts.

Time sure flies. Graduated, got a job, got married, got divorced, got depressed, got better. Life has its ups and downs, but I reckon if we never give up and keep trying, everything's gonna be alright.

Stay gold everyone.

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## Grytorm

I feel like going on about something, but I don't have anything in particular to talk about. I could berate myself and how I am not getting much done but that hasn't felt overwhelming as of late. I could talk about ongoing loneliness of course and how I sort of have a crush on a woman who works at the cattery I volunteer at. But at the same time I kind of recognize more a desire for intimacy that tends to latch onto women near my age out of desperation and general ineptitude. She is friendly and involved in RPG stuff and a LARP, so I do want to be friends with her as well. Typing further stuff from here seems difficult because I cannot decide between asking for advice on how to not make a fool of myself and going on a relatively short extended pity party where I call myself a fool for having hope and expressing self loathing for my difficulty maintaining functional friendships and with women I have pined over. It would probably be easier if I was any good at maintaining functional relationships with anyone. Also if I had a better understanding of how to talk to people and what I want out of those who might be friends and acquaintances.

Edit: Hiding out of sight behind a fence is so much easier.

Also, sorry if this was incomprehensible gibberish. I am at times bad at communicating.

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## jdizzlean

> I feel like going on about something, but I don't have anything in particular to talk about. I could berate myself and how I am not getting much done but that hasn't felt overwhelming as of late. I could talk about ongoing loneliness of course and how I sort of have a crush on a woman who works at the cattery I volunteer at. But at the same time I kind of recognize more a desire for intimacy that tends to latch onto women near my age out of desperation and general ineptitude. She is friendly and involved in RPG stuff and a LARP, so I do want to be friends with her as well. Typing further stuff from here seems difficult because I cannot decide between asking for advice on how to not make a fool of myself and going on a relatively short extended pity party where I call myself a fool for having hope and expressing self loathing for my difficulty maintaining functional friendships and with women I have pined over. It would probably be easier if I was any good at maintaining functional relationships with anyone. Also if I had a better understanding of how to talk to people and what I want out of those who might be friends and acquaintances.
> 
> Edit: Hiding out of sight behind a fence is so much easier.
> 
> Also, sorry if this was incomprehensible gibberish. I am at times bad at communicating.


it doesn't have to start out romantic, she likes rpg/larp, and you do to apparently, start there.  be friends first, then see if there's more.  putting all the pressure on yourself to be something in the beginning just makes it harder.  small steps forward.

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## Rydiro

> it doesn't have to start out romantic, she likes rpg/larp, and you do to apparently, start there.  be friends first, then see if there's more.  putting all the pressure on yourself to be something in the beginning just makes it harder.  small steps forward.


On the other hand, thats not a good move towards a romantic relationship. Basically you are friendzoning yourself.
I agree that friendship is probably the best thing to aim for atm. But be honest with yourself. If you find out you definately want more at some point, be honest and tell her.

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## FinnLassie

> On the other hand, thats not a good move towards a romantic relationship. Basically you are friendzoning yourself.
> I agree that friendship is probably the best thing to aim for atm. But be honest with yourself. If you find out you definately want more at some point, be honest and tell her.


I don't understand how that's friendzoning himself? I've noticed that relationships have been much better when you've built a friendship before a romantic relationship.

Like, forming a platonic relationship with a person doesn't harm anyone, as long as you as a person decide that ok, this is the goal. The important thing is to not expect things to go to the romantic territory as you enter the relationship, the job is to get to know to people. I know some guys think I've friendzoned them, but in reality they tried to become friends with me just to make me like them and become a couple.

Of course it's easier said than done, first becoming friends someone that you think you might like. *Grytorm*, as you said yourself, you're not sure where the possible crush stems from - is it out of the feeling of need, or pure interest? I've been there, and it can feel like hell. And in my case, I've hurt myself and others when I've entered a relationship and then realised it was just because I thought I liked someone, when in reality I had a couple of issues to deal with. So, now, it's best to tread with care, and be kind to yourself. Get to know this person. And at the same time, get to know yourself. If you feel uncertainty or need help, then you're always welcome here to ask for advice... just as you did now.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Rydiro

> Like, forming a platonic relationship with a person doesn't harm anyone, as long as you as a person decide that ok, this is the goal. The important thing is to not expect things to go to the romantic territory as you enter the relationship, the job is to get to know to people. I know some guys think I've friendzoned them, but in reality they tried to become friends with me just to make me like them and become a couple.


Yes I meant that last thing. Its a bad idea to use friendship as a vehicle to get into a relationship. Thats when a friendship really does hurt at least one side.

So friendships are a bad way to 'get' romantic partners.

----------


## Grytorm

Nods. I'm just really bad at friendship stuff at least, I think I am. I guess in a way I don't know what I want out of friendships and that makes me attempts at navigating interpersonal relationships more difficult. I think I probably would end up a jerk if I didn't react to mild social censure with massive feelings of guilt and a strong desire to isolate myself. Like the time I spent a week during a study abroad trying to not look directly at any of my classmates after a series of really stupid text messages. Thinking about it still makes me feel like an awful person which I probably deserve.

Part of the problem is that I am not very good at reaching out socially. I had about one friend in high school and pretty much very rarely spent time with anyone outside of class. In my one year living in a college dormitory I only spent time with others in the dorm outside of stuff organized by the RA a handful of times. That time, that time, that time, that time, that time, and that time. Six times. And twice at a game store. 

Was tpying more but my time at community college was the happiest I had been since high school and I had friends on the bus which I took to get into the small city from where I lived with my parents in the country. Played some Magic the Gathering. Stuff. Posted here several times about loneliness and hopeless crushes. Then that came to an end.

Back to the university, a closer one so I could still live with my parents. I gradually became more isolated. Normal stuff for me. No connections with my classmates outside of class. Bungled attempt at getting a date ended up with one of the few friends who consistently talks to me. Went to Mexico. Sent stupid texts. Felt very ashamed. Did social things with the group maybe three times (outside of program stuff). Came back. Continued to live in isolation with the bonus that thanks to the text messages and further idiocy I ended up strongly averse to everyone who I could have been friends with from the program and would freak out and take evasive maneuvers at the sight of them. Also was in a social connectedness group for a while but lost contact due to changes in schedule.

Other things happen as they do. Joined a gaming group thing which is kind of open to people just showing up. Do volunteer work cleaning up after numerous cats. 

That reminds me of the another thing where I dropped almost all involvement with a local library because of a bad experience with a staff member there I had thought of as a friend. Doesn't really matter.

Remembering and typing all this. Emotionally it has had little effect on my mood. In general I have been more depressed since the last post but typing this doesn't seem to have mattered much. While typing the process of remembering wasn't particularly emotional. But now as I wrap up my mind is drifting a little towards hopelessness and the prospects of inescapable isolation. And to a lesser extent my feelings that at twenty five I have wasted my youth and potential and that everything going forward will be ash compared to what could have been.

----------


## halfeye

> to a lesser extent my feelings that at twenty five I have wasted my youth and potential and that everything going forward will be ash compared to what could have been.


Albert Einstein didn't have any chance of being Neil Armstrong, and Neil Armstrong couldn't have been Albert Einstein.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hey everybody. I feel very lonely. A good friend of mine that I know from another forum left a few weeks due to some issues with another member of that forum. She always critiques my Pathfinder Fan-fiction stories and we write letters together. Now I feel very lonely without her and I've no one to talk to. I feel very sad.  :Frown:

----------


## Velaryon

I've found myself in a bit of a moral quandary (perhaps of my own making, after a fashion) and I'm not sure what to do. I don't know that this thread is really the place for it, and if not please feel free to ignore me or for a mod to delete my post.

Here's the short version:

*Spoiler: Tl;dr Version*
Show

A close friend of mine has been deliberately excluded from a social gathering to which I have been invited, among people he also considers friends. I feel trapped between respecting the hosts' decision to invite whom they please and loyalty to my friend, and am unsure whether I should/want to attend.



Now for the detailed version:
*Spoiler: Detailed Version*
Show

One of my friends (let's call him R) has been left off the guest list for an annual party to which R has been invited in past years, and to which I also am invited. I inquired of the hosts (L and A) whether it was intentional because R has been forgotten about a couple times in the past, and learned that it was on purpose. I was given two reasons: first, because they thought another friend they're closer to (Z) was on somewhat bad terms with R, and second because they felt R had been distant with them regarding some difficulties L and A went through this year (for example, L had some serious health issues and R never spoke to them or offered encouragement or help or anything).

With regard to Z, there may be some lingering issues between him and R but I do not know details. I do know that they are civil and seem to be fine talking and hanging out, as I talk to them both a lot (and sometimes together). I also know that R can be a bit oblivious and that Z shies away from conflict and has a bad habit of not telling people when he's upset with them.

With regard to L and A's situation, I think it's very likely that R was out of the loop. Most of their updates on L's health problems were given to friends via a group chat on Messenger to which R was never invited, so it's not fair to fault him for being unaware of anything said there. R also has difficult work hours that limit his social availability, which makes it easier to forget about him when it comes to including him in stuff.

None of which is my business. I respect L and A's right to choose whom to invite and not invite to their party. Here's where I have a problem though: I am *severely* uncomfortable with situations in which a group of people, particularly friends, deliberately excludes someone. It stems from having this done to me in childhood when one friend whom I fought with frequently used to influence other friends to hang out and exclude me. I've also been in situations where I'm invited into a group thing where someone is being deliberately excluded, and I feel deeply uncomfortable and guilty when I'm there. 

I know it's dumb to feel caught between friends when I'm the only one putting myself there, but this is a huge sticking point for me and I will feel terrible about myself if I feel like I'm letting down a friend by participating in their exclusion.


I know that R would want to go to this party and that his feelings would be hurt if he finds out he's not being invited (to my knowledge he is not yet aware of this). I also have been looking forward to this party, but am unsure how much I want to go if one of my best friends is unwelcome, not just on his behalf but because I know I will feel uncomfortable and guilty if I  am there.

Should I skip the party out of loyalty to a friend who has not asked me to do any such thing? Should I go and try to ignore any feelings of discomfort or letting R down?  Should I just mind my own business and go/not go as I feel like, independently of what else is going on?

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I've found myself in a bit of a moral quandary (perhaps of my own making, after a fashion) and I'm not sure what to do. I don't know that this thread is really the place for it, and if not please feel free to ignore me or for a mod to delete my post.
> 
> Here's the short version:
> 
> *Spoiler: Tl;dr Version*
> Show
> 
> A close friend of mine has been deliberately excluded from a social gathering to which I have been invited, among people he also considers friends. I feel trapped between respecting the hosts' decision to invite whom they please and loyalty to my friend, and am unsure whether I should/want to attend.
> 
> ...


I'm going to just call L and A: LA to save time. LA seem to be moving to cut R out of their lives or don't consider R important to begin with. They have forgotten R on occasions before, they did not message R about the illness, and now they are deliberately excluding R from their meetings.

There is a good chance that R is going to be lifted out of the group. If R is socially awkward this might be someone finally deciding to fix the broken stair, and everyone else is now aware of that issue (broken stair is a metaphor for allowing moderately toxic individuals to continue within a group out of momentum.) LA might have disliked R before and now has an excuse to exclude R, or other issues could be going on you aren't aware of.

I would talk to the other individuals in the group and see what they think. If you are adults chances are you can just be friends with both groups, but excluding yourself in protest will likely just see you cut out as well.

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## HalfTangible

January and February was a very, VERY bad pair of months for me. And not because of the forum going down.

See, my pappaw (grandfather on mom's side) needed to go into the hospital for surgery on one of his major arteries near the heart. He's gonna be laid low for a couple months. The surgery went fine and he's in good spirits now, that wasn't the main problem. The problem was Mammaw. She's been going through dementia for a few years now, and she can't be left alone. Pappaw has been seeing to her physical needs, but after major heart surgery, that's no longer an option, he needs to rest. Which she won't let him do. So for 2-3 months (around 1-2 left now) we need to take care of her at our house. We knew it'd be difficult, but our aunt couldn't take her (because there isn't always someone home in their house).

_Hoo boy._ There is not a word in the english dictionary to describe how much of an understatement "this is gonna be hard" was.

She will not let my mother sleep more than a few winks and requires that someone be in the room with her every hour of every day. She needs a massive breakfast every morning that requires a lot of cooking. Medicine every 5 hours. She forgets things within a minute of you telling her and will argue incessantly with you that she did not do a thing _you clearly just saw her do_. She needs her diaper changed but can't physically do it herself without help, which falls on me because I'm the only person in the house with fully functioning legs. My personal highlight has got to be taking a dump on top of the toilet seat (not the lid, the seat), then laying one on the nightstand that we didn't find for a few hours.

We hired some professional help for her physical needs, including a shower. She quit after the second day because of some truly disgusting and unsanitary conditions in the house. Trash was shoved into the pantry and under the sink, there was poop in her pants and on her bathrobe (this was the same day that the poop on the toilet seat and nightstand happened). I do not blame her in the slightest for quitting; I spent most of the time that she was there looking after mammaw just trying to get the house back into workable conditions. (We've hired some more help that will be coming three times a week)

Meanwhile my aunt went to clean out Mammaw and Pappaw's house a bit, and while I haven't seen it myself, it's become abundantly clear that Pappaw has only been able to take care of her immediate needs. Just enough so that we didn't realize how bad she'd gotten. We did visit on occasion, but a thorough cleaning has revealed trash everywhere, mildew and other things that make the situation truly appalling.

I have no idea how pappaw managed to keep up with this. Mom's at the end of her rope and so am I. I'm trying to help how I can (primarily by staying with mammaw a few hours so that mom can get some sleep) but I can't do that permanently. Mammaw relies a ton on my mom and there's only so much I can do to support them while also job-hunting (which isn't going well and I've basically given up on it until this **** is over if I'm honest). Mom tells me she was always selfish, but the dementia has made it so much worse. Not ten minutes before writing this post she took mom's medicine instead of her own and wouldn't let go of it (she managed to take a potassium supplement and I had to pry the other pill out of her hand). The fact that my mother is in a wheelchair is not helping matters for obvious reasons. It's like looking after someone else's cat but it talks back to you.

And now mom wants pappaw to come here tomorrow while he's recovering, to stay with us while aunt's part of the family finishes cleaning out their house. This is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea and I have made my disapproval as clear as I can.

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## Sermil

> January and February was a very, VERY bad pair of months for me. And not because of the forum going down.


Ugh, I feel for you. Dementia is the worst. Having to fight the person you're trying to help is so, so hard.

Not much useful to say, but sympathy.

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## The Fury

So, I'm having some trouble with a friend. In particular I'm not sure if it's better for me to be emotionally closer or give him some space. I feel like he might be a little afraid to tell me what he needs from me because he's said that he feels bad about asking me for things. Even though I've outright told him that it's OK and I don't mind.

It doesn't help that I have my own issues with this sort of thing too. I've gotten so used to rejection that unless people specifically  say that they want me around, I usually assume that they don't. 

A scenario I keep playing over is a day where my friend had a pretty bad emotional breakdown. It was on a day where we normally meet up in the afternoon, usually with one or two other people. I let him know that I was still available but made a note to myself to not take it personally if he just needs space. Also, not take it personally if he doesn't want to tell me about the breakdown. Eventually he did invite me to meet up with two other people in the library. He even told me about the breakdown, (I won't get into the specifics here. Even though I'm not using any real names, it just feels really inappropriate.) Later my friend said that he needed to go to the store and asked if anyone wanted to go with him. The other two people there volunteered before I could say anything. Since someone needed to stay behind to save our spot, I took this to mean it should be me. Then my friend said, "Oh, you're _both_ coming? ...I sort of hoped that The Fury would go with me."

Neither of the two seemed keen on the idea of staying behind. One of them suggested that my friend choose who goes with him. This made him visibly uncomfortable, so I tried my best to defuse the situation with, "It's OK. Both of you really seem to want to go, and someone needs to stay. It can be me, I don't mind."  

I'm not sure that I handled that quite right. I love my friend very much and I want to do right by him, I just worry that I'm not quite the friend he needs right now. For that matter I don't know if the right thing is to try to get closer or back off.

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## dehro

Kinda hard to give solid advice with no details to go by. From what you wrote however, you seem to be a considerate friend who is thinking about other people's welfare and who's heart is on the right place. Whether you're friend recognises that depends on their mental state and general empathy/closeness towards you.
It seems to me you're doing the best you can.

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## Sermil

> I'm not sure that I handled that quite right.


I think it was a generally awkward situation -- person 1 saying "I want to hang out with someone", person 2: "OK, I can hang out.", person 1: "Umm, I didn't mean you" -- but not really your fault. Or really anyone's fault. 




> I love my friend very much and I want to do right by him, I just worry that I'm not quite the friend he needs right now. For that matter I don't know if the right thing is to try to get closer or back off.


Well, since he said he wanted you to be the one accompanying him to the store, presumably he wants time with you.

So I would guess closer. Unless there's another reason you think that's not the right thing?

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## The Fury

> Kinda hard to give solid advice with no details to go by. From what you wrote however, you seem to be a considerate friend who is thinking about other people's welfare and who's heart is on the right place. Whether you're friend recognises that depends on their mental state and general empathy/closeness towards you.
> It seems to me you're doing the best you can.


I am trying. I'm a worrier just in general, and the issue is complicated further by the fact that my friend has a pretty big guilt complex. After getting some encouragement, I actually talked out some of what I've been feeling with him. For his part, he does recognize that I'm doing my best and admitted that asking for help is difficult for him. He also told me that he's been a "pity friend" enough times that it's not easy for him to accept that people want him around because they just like him. I think it might have been good that he got that reaffirmation that I'm someone that loves and cares about him and that he has other friends that feel the same way.




> I think it was a generally awkward situation -- person 1 saying "I want to hang out with someone", person 2: "OK, I can hang out.", person 1: "Umm, I didn't mean you" -- but not really your fault. Or really anyone's fault.


I think it was awkward more because my friend seemed to _really_ not want to choose which of us three to take with him, and neither of the two others seemed OK with staying. That was my thinking anyway when I volunteered to stay. Hopefully I spared everyone else a little extra awkwardness and didn't disappoint anyone too badly.




> Well, since he said he wanted you to be the one accompanying him to the store, presumably he wants time with you.
> 
> So I would guess closer. Unless there's another reason you think that's not the right thing?


I guess. I feel like I come off as pretty cold a lot of times, and I don't really want to be that person. I also don't want to come off as obnoxiously clingy either.

When I had a heart-to-heart with him earlier today, my friend did offer me some reassurance. He said that just having me around makes him feel better and that I was about the best friend he could ask for.

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## The Fury

So, something sort of unfortunate happened this week. I was talking about comics with some friends, and a particular artist came up, and I used Google to find some of his artwork to show. This artist was someone that I knew personally, kind of like a mentor or professor, he also died of cancer about ten years ago. The search results included some photos of him too. Being alive and cheerful. They made me so intensely sad that I dropped my phone and left the room crying.

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## Lissou

I am so sorry to hear that :( Sorry for your loss. What a way to learn about it, too :S

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## The Fury

> I am so sorry to hear that :( Sorry for your loss. What a way to learn about it, too :S


I know, right? I feel bad about for my friends that I was talking with. I was literally fine up until I wasn't, and it sucks that talking about things I enjoy can actually turn out to be triggering for me.

For what it's worth, I did come back after taking a minute to settle down and explained what happened. Both my friends were really cool and understanding about it. I still wish that I hadn't reacted the way I did.

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## halfeye

> So, something sort of unfortunate happened this week. I was talking about comics with some friends, and a particular artist came up, and I used Google to find some of his artwork to show. This artist was someone that I knew personally, kind of like a mentor or professor, he also died of cancer about ten years ago. The search results included some photos of him too. Being alive and cheerful. They made me so intensely sad that I dropped my phone and left the room crying.


Did you already know he was dead? I thought I read it that you did, but the later posts imply not.

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## The Fury

> Did you already know he was dead? I thought I read it that you did, but the later posts imply not.


He died ten years ago, I was at the funeral. So yeah, I knew he was dead. It's just that I had thought that I'd moved on after all these years, evidently I haven't.

Edit: when responding to Lissou regarding "learning about it" in my dumb brain I was thinking that I learned about having a trigger that I didn't know I had.

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## Lissou

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you had lost touch and didn't realise he was dead and that's how you learned about it. Sorry about the misunderstanding. The rest of my message still stands, though.

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## The Fury

> Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you had lost touch and didn't realise he was dead and that's how you learned about it. Sorry about the misunderstanding. The rest of my message still stands, though.


More like I thought I had processed my grief over the situation. It turned out that I still have something that never quite healed.

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## Spore

My go-to reaction when my mom talks about people she lost and loved is to remember the fun things about them, the positive feelings. There is no need to focus on the death. It comes for us all one day. Share some of his art with us, so we can enjoy it together. I'm quite curious about it too, now that I've mentioned it.

(Plus, about your friend: Sometimes it is best not to ask and just to barge in on a day you know they have time and just keep them company. No words needed, just "hey, I was in the area, I am pretty bored, wanna grab a coffee?" the worst that can happen is a "no".)

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## The Fury

> My go-to reaction when my mom talks about people she lost and loved is to remember the fun things about them, the positive feelings. There is no need to focus on the death. It comes for us all one day. Share some of his art with us, so we can enjoy it together. I'm quite curious about it too, now that I've mentioned it.


Right now, I feel a little emotionally raw. I miss him terribly, seeing photos of him makes me want to cry. So I apologize, but looking up his comics is a bit too much for me right now. His name was Dylan Williams though, if you'd like to look up his art for yourself.




> (Plus, about your friend: Sometimes it is best not to ask and just to barge in on a day you know they have time and just keep them company. No words needed, just "hey, I was in the area, I am pretty bored, wanna grab a coffee?" the worst that can happen is a "no".)


...I don't think I have the kind of relationship where I can do that. I mean, I don't think _anyone_ I know would be OK with me suddenly barging in. It might be that I just think that because I'm bad at seeing boundaries and I _know_ I'm bad at seeing boundaries. So I tend to assume that a lot of things are not OK until I'm told specifically that they are. 

To tell the truth, I don't have a great sense for understanding what kind of relationship I even have with people. Yesterday I was out with a different friend, whom I'll call May. At one point May told me that they appreciate that we can have "comfortable silences," moments in conversation where neither of us say anything and it's not weird. I guess our friendship is a closer one than I thought it was?  

The friend that I was really worried about, whom I've called RJ in other places on the forum, has actually been pretty insightful about what I'm going through. I brought it up in a group Discord that I'm still not over a death and I might be a little weird to be around for a while. Especially if I suddenly become a sobbing wreck again. RJ had a conversation with me about it over PMs. I won't get into specifics, but I can get into the gist.

*Spoiler: TW: Death, suicide ideation*
Show

Something that's been bothering me about all this is that I don't really understand why I'm thinking about Dylan again. RJ thinks that it might have had something to do with what happened between us. The reason why I was really worried about RJ is that he mentioned wanting to die and being in pain. Maybe this unconsciously reminded me of what happened to Dylan. That's what RJ's theory was anyway. 


Just to be clear RJ was really sweet and supportive about all this. May was too. I'm not used to people treating me this way. Normally people in my life rely on me to support them. Which is another thing I wish wasn't true about me... I don't really understand normal, healthy relationships when I have them. Why can't I let good things happen to me?

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## aberratio ictus

Hello playground, thanks for reading!

I am happily married with a stepdaughter.

Yesterday my wife was sick.  I took leave from work, took our daughter to kindergarten, read to my wife, took her to the doctor's, prepared a bath, held her hand, made a steady supply of tea and snacks, and asked her all the time if I can do anything else for her. Fetched our daughter from kindergarten, entertained her for a few hours, then made special tea for my wife on demand. 

I took my daughter to fetch medicine for my wife.

There was the mistake. We took to long, or didn't start soon enough. I started too late with preparing dinner, and my wife snapped at me. Our daughter would be late for bedtime because she hadn't showered yet, and she had to show me something about how to prepare the food, because it apparently was a family recipe. So she and her sick self decided she would shower our daughter and do some part of the cooking herself, and she was angry at me for it. 

She accused me of not caring, and bemoaned that she can't even be sick for one day without everything falling apart. When I brought up just some of the things I had done for her that day, she just snapped a "And you're already overwhelmed by that?!" back at me. I snapped back, I admit. To be honest,  I felt incredibly hurt. 
I made a few stupid mistakes while cooking due to that,  which of course didn't better her mood or mine.

I went to the parent's kindergarten meeting on her behalf soon, and when I came back, I wanted to talk things out. She thanked me for going to the meeting, and agreed to talk. 

She always waits for me to start when it's time for those talks.  I apologised for snapping at her. She used a half sentence to say her reaction wasn't ideal and she was sorry , and a lot of time to painstakingly explain what I did wrong, as if talking to an idiot. I explained I understood that, but that I was simply a bit hurt that shed say I didn't care when I obviously did.
She told me she was disappointed she couldn't trust me to get by on my own for even one evening. 
She didn't understand why I was hurt.  She was just disappointed.

I don't know.  It's so often like this. I feel like I'm never enough. Effort isn't enough for her, she holds me to her own standards.  I told her multiple times this doesn't work, but she thinks they're not too high. It's never enough. 

She didn't this time, but she often says she feels like having a second child. I hate that. She knows I am NC with my parents and that they also never accepted me as an adult,  which is one of my personal issues. She stills says things like that, for reasons like I took the wrong type of towel for myself when going to the swimming pool (apparently there's bathroom shower size and swimming pool shower size, the difference is negligible in my eyes) or when I can't remember which exit to take while driving on the highway, and ask her. She hates when I ask things,  because I should manage on my own. Except when I don't and do things wrong. Then I should have asked. Buy then I'm apparently also a child.

It just isn't appropriate for the guy who always does half of work in the household, even when working more hours.
The guy who wakes you with coffee every single day because it's hard for you to get up in the morning.  That guy is your second child?

I feel its disrespectful,  but she says she's just expressing her feelings,  and that she should be allowed to do that.

It's not often, don't get me wrong. But it happens regularly. It grates on me.

I don't know what to do.

Am I wrong for being hurt? She's right after all, I failed to do all things right in the end.
Is it wrong to want to feel appreciated even if you fail?

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## Cozzer

I'll just say two things: first, that's _not_ the way one should feel while in a relationship. It would be one thing if that was an exception, a rare outburst caused by stress, but apparently it's regular for her to make you feel like this. Now, maybe you're just venting during a particularly tense moment, but what you're describing in that post is a toxic situation. A functional relationship makes you feel like you're the _right_ person, not the _wrong_ one.

Now, the second thing is that there's a child involved. Normally I would encourage you to estabilish some boundaries, estabilish them _very hard_, and screw the consequences. If you two have a child, though, her wellbeing is not just number one priority, but like all the top ten of priorities combined. Which _includes_ not letting her grow up with an imbalanced and toxic relationship as an example.

Again: if this was just an outburst, an exception in an otherwise healthy relationship, you can just wait for things to calm down. But I think if it was, you wouldn't be posting that here, looking for help from strangers. You need to re-estabilish the very foundation of the relationship, which is that you two are both functional and complete adults who _could_ be on your own if you wanted, but _choose_ to stay together because you like staying together. Counseling might be involved? Maybe even couples therapy? I don't know, but you two have a responsibility to do this right, not just to yourself. (And also it would probably improve your life and make you feel much better which, you know, doesn't hurt?)

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## The Fury

I've had issues with being in functional, healthy friendships for a while. I've gotten too used to the idea that I can be caring and supportive, but I just can't expect to have that care and support turned towards me, and that if I needed help from someone I've helped, that relationship is over. I've even self-destructed friendships that were actually good because I couldn't fathom why anyone would want to help me. I've mentioned this before. I thought that I was over it, but having kindness and understanding directed at me over someone's death has shown me that I'm not. I sort of want to break off from my current friend group, even though I know I shouldn't. Especially since RJ has said that he's afraid of driving people away, I really don't want to be the one that confirmed his worst fear. Looking at the whole thing from a more objective lens, it's pretty crazy. I want to break it off with my current friend group because they're too nice to me. How messed up is that?

A term I heard recently in passing is "compulsive fixer," and I thought, "yeah, that sounds like me." I keep trying to fix things and help people because I just feel like I have to. Like I _could_ just leave it alone, but I'm not sure I'd be OK with myself if I did. When combining that trait with not being able to accept help, support, or even a damn compliment, well... 

I feel like I'm just not good at being alive. Now, I don't mean that I'm suicidal, I just think I'd be better as something that was never alive in the first place. An inanimate object of some kind. After all, some inanimate objects are pretty useful. If I were a rock, that would be pretty good. People can climb on rocks and get a lot of enjoyment out of it, If I were a rock in a stormy ocean, people could cling to me and be safe from drowning. Rocks don't need anything, they don't feel anything, they just _are_. That sounds amazing.

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## Mith

> I've had issues with being in functional, healthy friendships for a while. I've gotten too used to the idea that I can be caring and supportive, but I just can't expect to have that care and support turned towards me, and that if I needed help from someone I've helped, that relationship is over. I've even self-destructed friendships that were actually good because I couldn't fathom why anyone would want to help me. I've mentioned this before. I thought that I was over it, but having kindness and understanding directed at me over someone's death has shown me that I'm not. I sort of want to break off from my current friend group, even though I know I shouldn't. Especially since RJ has said that he's afraid of driving people away, I really don't want to be the one that confirmed his worst fear. Looking at the whole thing from a more objective lens, it's pretty crazy. I want to break it off with my current friend group because they're too nice to me. How messed up is that?
> 
> A term I heard recently in passing is "compulsive fixer," and I thought, "yeah, that sounds like me." I keep trying to fix things and help people because I just feel like I have to. Like I _could_ just leave it alone, but I'm not sure I'd be OK with myself if I did. When combining that trait with not being able to accept help, support, or even a damn compliment, well... 
> 
> I feel like I'm just not good at being alive. Now, I don't mean that I'm suicidal, I just think I'd be better as something that was never alive in the first place. An inanimate object of some kind. After all, some inanimate objects are pretty useful. If I were a rock, that would be pretty good. People can climb on rocks and get a lot of enjoyment out of it, If I were a rock in a stormy ocean, people could cling to me and be safe from drowning. Rocks don't need anything, they don't feel anything, they just _are_. That sounds amazing.


So I can empathise with your thought process here.  I have some ideas on what _may_ help.

If you don't already, try making regular social gatherings where everyone is on an equal footing so there is nothing to "fix".  The main thing is that it's nothing that requires reciprocation, aside from showing up regularly.  Especially if you can have the gathering in a neutral place with no host.

I cannot say if this will resolve issues (still figuring that out on my end), but it may give a settled pattern to make it easier for handling personal stressors, since it should be an environment where such things are minimal.

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## Spore

@aberratio ictus
Yea, there is just not enough communication going on in your relationship. I never got that far in a relationship, but it mostly always hinges on people not talking AND listening enough.

Understand this: While my relationship with my mom is not ideal, we talk on the phone for 2+ hours every week. I would expect for me and any partner to top that time. Seriously, you both seem kinda busy, but it also feels like you never take the time to talk to each other. You just live together. Talk more, LISTEN more. Make her listen: Not forcibly, but there are techniques. Stop talking when you are not heard. Talk the lowest speaking volume you can muster so she has to pay attention when she wants to hear you. 




> His name was Dylan Williams though, if you'd like to look up his art for yourself.


His art is wonderful, and this is coming from someone that isnt really the artsy type. The minimalistic style and the colors show a vibrant world, with enough vagueness to fill in the blanks. Great decorative items.




> ...I don't think I have the kind of relationship where I can do that. I mean, I don't think anyone I know would be OK with me suddenly barging in.


That is the nice part. You pretend to not care. (Obviously you do care. But for once, just shut off those voices to help.)




> Why can't I let good things happen to me?


I am the same way. Simply put, because I feel I don't deserve good things. Just spitballing here but this could be your issue too.

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## The Fury

> So I can empathise with your thought process here.  I have some ideas on what _may_ help.
> 
> If you don't already, try making regular social gatherings where everyone is on an equal footing so there is nothing to "fix".  The main thing is that it's nothing that requires reciprocation, aside from showing up regularly.  Especially if you can have the gathering in a neutral place with no host.
> 
> I cannot say if this will resolve issues (still figuring that out on my end), but it may give a settled pattern to make it easier for handling personal stressors, since it should be an environment where such things are minimal.


What sucks is that I can't really have those types of interactions. On a certain level I need something to fix. I understand people needing me to fix something, but my dumb brain can't quite get around the idea that someone might just want me there because they... enjoy my company for some reason? Not that I don't appreciate the advice, it's perfectly reasonable for someone that doesn't have my issues, I just don't know if I can actually apply it. 




> His art is wonderful, and this is coming from someone that isnt really the artsy type. The minimalistic style and the colors show a vibrant world, with enough vagueness to fill in the blanks. Great decorative items.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the nice part. You pretend to not care. (Obviously you do care. But for once, just shut off those voices to help.)
> 
> 
> 
> I am the same way. Simply put, because I feel I don't deserve good things. Just spitballing here but this could be your issue too.


Thank you for looking into Dylan's art. I hate that he's fallen into obscurity following his death. His work deserves to be remembered by better people than me.

All the same, I really don't think I should drop by friends' houses as a surprise. I really can't imagine that going any way but badly.

I think you're right. I really don't believe that I deserve good things to happen to me. I feel like everything I touch turns to trash. I think that I understand on some level, that isn't rational. Sometimes I find myself just sitting in a dark room alone thinking, "Man... why am I like this?" 

Ugh. That was horrible and melodramatic and I'm sorry. But I really do feel like that a lot of the time.

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## dehro

> stuff


What you describe contains a lot of red flags in terms of healthy relationship bordering on toxic/abusive.
Of course, this is your side and her take might be a little different.
I'm familiar with the feeling of not being enough, not being grown up, falling to meet expectations or failing in general... And I recognise that those feelings do have a tendency to becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, thereby reinforcing the negative situation and feelings... So, ultimately I'm not sure what to suggest other than not open confrontation and dialogue, clear expression of the feelings that her attitude and remarks cause, and, of those conversations don't help, maybe involve a third neutral party, professional, if need be

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## Mith

> What sucks is that I can't really have those types of interactions. On a certain level I need something to fix. I understand people needing me to fix something, but my dumb brain can't quite get around the idea that someone might just want me there because they... enjoy my company for some reason? Not that I don't appreciate the advice, it's perfectly reasonable for someone that doesn't have my issues, I just don't know if I can actually apply it. 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...His work deserves to be remembered by better people than me....
> 
> All the same, I really don't think I should drop by friends' houses as a surprise. I really can't imagine that going any way but badly.
> 
> I think you're right. I really don't believe that I deserve good things to happen to me. I feel like everything I touch turns to trash. I think that I understand on some level, that isn't rational. Sometimes I find myself just sitting in a dark room alone thinking, "Man... why am I like this?" 
> ...


When I say I empathise with your situation, I mean that I often have moments where I am wondering why am invited to things outside of social inertia (been fortunate to keep friends since junior high).  In my situation, the reason having the no obligation events or small meet ups with friends, is that it refutes the idea of inertia by building new experiences.  So while my struggles are not directly comparable to yours, what I am thinking of is situations that are direct a refutation of this basic premise that "No one actually wants you around."

So stopping by your friend's without warning (especially if they are dealing with chronic illness) isn't going to work.  Trying to set up times for meeting for coffee may work better.

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## The Fury

> When I say I empathise with your situation, I mean that I often have moments where I am wondering why am invited to things outside of social inertia (been fortunate to keep friends since junior high).  In my situation, the reason having the no obligation events or small meet ups with friends, is that it refutes the idea of inertia by building new experiences.  So while my struggles are not directly comparable to yours, what I am thinking of is situations that are direct a refutation of this basic premise that "No one actually wants you around."
> 
> So stopping by your friend's without warning (especially if they are dealing with chronic illness) isn't going to work.  Trying to set up times for meeting for coffee may work better.


I'm jealous. I can't keep friends that long. I think I can blame my weird self-destructive impulses for that. As for events where I get specifically invited, yeah that's the only way I'll even consider showing up. Even then I still assume that I was invited because they need someone to move a table or something. 

By the way, just as a clarification,  Dylan was a cancer patient but RJ and May are both in fairly good physical health and aren't suffering from any chronic illness that I know of.

----------


## Mith

> I'm jealous. I can't keep friends that long. I think I can blame my weird self-destructive impulses for that. As for events where I get specifically invited, yeah that's the only way I'll even consider showing up. Even then I still assume that I was invited because they need someone to move a table or something. 
> 
> By the way, just as a clarification,  Dylan was a cancer patient but RJ and May are both in fairly good physical health and aren't suffering from any chronic illness that I know of.


I really count my blessings with this group.  I moved schools for junior high and honestly cannot say I would definitely be around when I think of what my social circle was like.  Pretty sure more than one person I knew in elementary literally disappeared.

I realise that my experience is likely not to the same degree as yours, but the idea of regular scheduled social events is something where you are invited, you know you are wanted in that moment.  

If it helps you to think of it this way, this wouldn't just be for you.  You say your friend worries about his friends leaving?  This builds support for him as well.  Any fit person can move tables, but the emotional support that any relationship is built on specific individuals.  Don't sell yourself short, and don't sell them short either.

You can help with your very presence.  You help them with your time. Your attention. It doesn't really matter if you find this baffling at times, because that truth is there before you.

I use games as a suggestion, but anything that works as a discussion piece works.  Book discussion.  Walking/physical activity.  Movie + chat afterwards.  Whatever works for you and yours.


==============
The reason for my use of chronic illness was because my understanding is you describe RJ struggling with wanting to be alive and "in pain", which I assumed was at least mentally/emotionally struggling, if not physical health. Perhaps "chronic" is the wrong word, but I would not use the term "well" based on your description.

----------


## The Fury

> I really count my blessings with this group.  I moved schools for junior high and honestly cannot say I would definitely be around when I think of what my social circle was like.  Pretty sure more than one person I knew in elementary literally disappeared.
> 
> I realise that my experience is likely not to the same degree as yours, but the idea of regular scheduled social events is something where you are invited, you know you are wanted in that moment.  
> 
> If it helps you to think of it this way, this wouldn't just be for you.  You say your friend worries about his friends leaving?  This builds support for him as well.  Any fit person can move tables, but the emotional support that any relationship is built on specific individuals.  Don't sell yourself short, and don't sell them short either.
> 
> You can help with your very presence.  You help them with your time. Your attention. It doesn't really matter if you find this baffling at times, because that truth is there before you.
> 
> I use games as a suggestion, but anything that works as a discussion piece works.  Book discussion.  Walking/physical activity.  Movie + chat afterwards.  Whatever works for you and yours.


Both RJ and May have said that they're afraid of scaring people off or otherwise driving people away. The only thing keeping me around is that  I don't want to make that fear come true. Especially since I think that they'd have a hard time accepting that it wasn't their fault and _I_ was the one with the problem. I just keep coming back to the ridiculousness of my problem-- I end friendships because... I can't handle people caring about me? I can't handle people being kind to me? I feel like I'll never be loved because some part of my dumb brain won't let me _be_ loved. 

I think I understand on some level that you're right. I keep finding myself in a role that I don't comprehend. Maybe it's good that I'm not treated like an unpaid employee or an emotional trashcan, those are roles that I understand though.  




> ==============
> The reason for my use of chronic illness was because my understanding is you describe RJ struggling with wanting to be alive and "in pain", which I assumed was at least mentally/emotionally struggling, if not physical health. Perhaps "chronic" is the wrong word, but I would not use the term "well" based on your description.


I see how I might have given that impression then. As far as I'm aware RJ is not suffering from a chronic illness, but he does have bad days. Like having pain for seemingly no reason. He does have anxiety and severe depression though. So I guess it's fair to say that RJ isn't feeling well. He's surviving though. Even though he's mentioned not wanting to be alive anymore. That said, he has assured me that he's not going anywhere and is scheduled to start counseling next week. For my part I told him that I'll try to trust more and worry less. I know I'm going to mess up and need to reign in my worry. RJ was really nice about it though and told me, "You just have a big heart and a scared brain." 
...Well, the latter is definitely true.

----------


## Mith

> Both RJ and May have said that they're afraid of scaring people off or otherwise driving people away. The only thing keeping me around is that  I don't want to make that fear come true. Especially since I think that they'd have a hard time accepting that it wasn't their fault and _I_ was the one with the problem. I just keep coming back to the ridiculousness of my problem-- I end friendships because... I can't handle people caring about me? I can't handle people being kind to me? I feel like I'll never be loved because some part of my dumb brain won't let me _be_ loved. 
> 
> I think I understand on some level that you're right. I keep finding myself in a role that I don't comprehend. Maybe it's good that I'm not treated like an unpaid employee or an emotional trashcan, those are roles that I understand though.  
> 
> 
> 
> I see how I might have given that impression then. As far as I'm aware RJ is not suffering from a chronic illness, but he does have bad days. Like having pain for seemingly no reason. He does have anxiety and severe depression though. So I guess it's fair to say that RJ isn't feeling well. He's surviving though. Even though he's mentioned not wanting to be alive anymore. That said, he has assured me that he's not going anywhere and is scheduled to start counseling next week. For my part I told him that I'll try to trust more and worry less. I know I'm going to mess up and need to reign in my worry. RJ was really nice about it though and told me, "You just have a big heart and a scared brain." 
> ...Well, the latter is definitely true.


Hey, you care for people for their own sake!  I think RJ is correct on the former too.

I hope my thoughts help.  They basically boil down to setting regular, tangible reminders that not all your worries are founded, especially in a way that allows you to relax.  Dial down "grounded stress" in the regular interactions to allow for these other worries to be addressed.

----------


## The Fury

> Hey, you care for people for their own sake!  I think RJ is correct on the former too.
> 
> I hope my thoughts help.  They basically boil down to setting regular, tangible reminders that not all your worries are founded, especially in a way that allows you to relax.  Dial down "grounded stress" in the regular interactions to allow for these other worries to be addressed.


A part of me wishes there was enough room in my heart for me. I hate that I need other people's fears to keep me from acting on some compulsion to emotionally hurt myself. 

I do my best to be understanding and compassionate to my friends and it makes sense that they try to do the same thing for me. I should be grateful but... Maybe it's some sort of imposter syndrome I'm dealing with? I feel like a monster doing some grotesque impression of how good people act. The other day, someone told me that I have very "wholesome energy." I think the compliment came from a genuine place of caring, but it made me feel awful. It shouldn't have,  but it did.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> A part of me wishes there was enough room in my heart for me. I hate that I need other people's fears to keep me from acting on some compulsion to emotionally hurt myself. 
> 
> I do my best to be understanding and compassionate to my friends and it makes sense that they try to do the same thing for me. I should be grateful but... Maybe it's some sort of imposter syndrome I'm dealing with? I feel like a monster doing some grotesque impression of how good people act. The other day, someone told me that I have very "wholesome energy." I think the compliment came from a genuine place of caring, but it made me feel awful. It shouldn't have,  but it did.


Self-loathing is very difficult to deal with, I have struggled with it my whole life as well. I think therapy is a good idea if you can afford it; the times where I hate myself least I find I am less selfish and more able to connect with people.

----------


## The Fury

> Self-loathing is very difficult to deal with, I have struggled with it my whole life as well. I think therapy is a good idea if you can afford it; the times where I hate myself least I find I am less selfish and more able to connect with people.


I'm glad that you can hate yourself less and that it helps you connect with people. That may be true for me too, just because in moments where I truly despise myself I feel like I'm doing my friends a favor by not being around them. I'll admit that I'm not thinking clearly in those moments. I guess I should self-reflect a little more. I'm not sure how selfish I'm being when I hate myself. Therapy has worked for you though? Is there anything that your therapist said that was particularly helpful?

I'm sure that I'll be fine eventually. Even though there's been some minor gestures, mostly from May and from RJ, that make me think that I don't deserve the love that they show me. Things like picking up on my mannerisms and tics. Things like "The Fury, you're doing that thing you do with your eyebrows when you have something on your mind. Did you need to say something?" and most of it is stuff that I didn't even know I did.

Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone thinks about me at all. Much less, putting in so much care and effort to try to understand me. I wish I could be normal and just accept the kindness the people in my life show me. I wish that I could see what they see in me.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I'm glad that you can hate yourself less and that it helps you connect with people. That may be true for me too, just because in moments where I truly despise myself I feel like I'm doing my friends a favor by not being around them. I'll admit that I'm not thinking clearly in those moments. I guess I should self-reflect a little more. I'm not sure how selfish I'm being when I hate myself. Therapy has worked for you though? Is there anything that your therapist said that was particularly helpful?
> 
> I'm sure that I'll be fine eventually. Even though there's been some minor gestures, mostly from May and from RJ, that make me think that I don't deserve the love that they show me. Things like picking up on my mannerisms and tics. Things like "The Fury, you're doing that thing you do with your eyebrows when you have something on your mind. Did you need to say something?" and most of it is stuff that I didn't even know I did.
> 
> Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone thinks about me at all. Much less, putting in so much care and effort to try to understand me. I wish I could be normal and just accept the kindness the people in my life show me. I wish that I could see what they see in me.


It was going pretty well with losing weight and a relationship and all, but between a break up followed by 6 months of unemployment, dropping out if grad school and gaining 50lbs its been a hard year. I'm employed again, trying to find some optimism in it all.

I think the big thing is trying to separate your self worth from your social standing and economic value (at least for me.)

----------


## The Fury

> It was going pretty well with losing weight and a relationship and all, but between a break up followed by 6 months of unemployment, dropping out if grad school and gaining 50lbs its been a hard year. I'm employed again, trying to find some optimism in it all.
> 
> I think the big thing is trying to separate your self worth from your social standing and economic value (at least for me.)


There's an activist that I follow on social media that said something to a similar effect. To paraphrase in brief, you aren't your job. You have intrinsic value as a person separate from whatever you do for a living. Which is a nice thought, and I wish more people took that lesson to heart.

I think I may be experiencing something slightly different. I just feel unlovable. Part of me wants love, though something in me actively resists it. It's definitely self-loathing of some kind. I think I might be afraid of letting my friends down.

----------


## Kesnit

This is as much me venting as it is looking for help. However, any advice is welcome...

I'm about to hit 3 years working as a public defender. The office where I work has 6 attorneys and 5 support staff. (We only have 5 attorneys at the moment since one just left for another office. We'll call her Beth.)

BACKGROUND
I was working with Beth on a jury trial. Then for reasons I can't go into, the case blew up. Since Beth was in court the day it blew up, everything came down on me. I don't feel I did anything wrong, and Beth (who is a considerably more experienced attorney than me) agreed with everything we did. My boss, "Jim," threw me under the bus, and would have come down harder on me had Beth not gotten back from court and stood up for me. (I was told by one of the support staff that Jim has thrown attorneys under the bus before.) I spent the last weekend in February wracked with anxiety and suicidal thoughts. (No, I never seriously considered suicide. I just wanted the pain to stop.)

Now it is two weeks later. Beth has moved on to her new job and I'm still here. Jim has decided I'm a screw up and has limited even more the kind of cases I can get. (Because of my inexperience, I was already limited, which was completely understandable.) I can agree that everything could have been handled better, but it wasn't just me. Jim is criticizing everything I do, which has my nerves and my confidence shot to the netherworld. 

OPTIONS I HAVE CONSIDERED
I don't have enough experience to hang out my own shingle. I would prefer not to go to a private firm, as I am in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program and know that is the only way I'll get my student loans paid off. 

My wife and I are in the process of building a house, so I have to stay in this area. 

There is another PD office about 30 minutes away (which would actually be closer to where we are building), but they don't have any openings right now, and I'm afraid Jim would sabotage any attempt I made to go there. 

I actually live in a different state from where I work, and would be eligible to waive into that state's Bar without having to take the bar exam. However, that process will take several months to complete. (I have the letter requesting the application ready to send off.) And even once I go get admitted, I would have to find a job there. (There is no public defender office in the county where I live, though there is one in the next county south. Of course, I could suck it up and apply for a prosecutor job in my home county or any of the surrounding counties...)

----------


## The Fury

To anyone that was wanting to know, I am feeling a bit better. For a while I really thought I had turned a corner with my mental health, but after having a breakdown following seeing pictures of my dead friend, I'd thought that I slipped back into the dark place that I thought that I spend the better part of ten years escaping. I don't think that's the case anymore. 

Following a death in my friend group, having people in my life move on and leave me or cut me out of their lives did a number on me. I thought that I had recovered, but now I think that I was just got used to being alone. Now that I have real, genuine friends that care about me, I'm starting to realize how lonely I actually was. It hurts, but I think I'll eventually be OK.

----------


## Mith

I am glad to hear that you feel that things are looking up for you.  Surprise shifts are never fun to go through.

----------


## The Fury

> I am glad to hear that you feel that things are looking up for you.  Surprise shifts are never fun to go through.


It does suck realizing that I haven't actually healed from  a painful experience, but just got so used to hurting that I stopped noticing the pain.

----------


## Mith

> It does suck realizing that I haven't actually healed from  a painful experience, but just got so used to hurting that I stopped noticing the pain.


That is true, but with healing, it's better late then never.

----------


## The Fury

> That is true, but with healing, it's better late then never.


I guess so. Maybe I won't ever fully recover, but I have people in my life that care about me, so maybe that's OK too. Admittedly, having to isolate because of the virus is putting a lot of strain on all of us but hopefully we'll all be OK in the end.

----------


## druid91

I now feel silly, for writing a poem as an opener to talk to someone on online dating. Mind you, it wasn't a love poem. (They had a question as a conversation starter, and I'd been reading/listening to the Poetic Edda, so I decided to try and answer in norse Ballad style.)

But I still feel silly for putting like... twenty minutes effort into making a poem that very well might never get read if they just decide they don't like my face.

----------


## Mith

> I now feel silly, for writing a poem as an opener to talk to someone on online dating. Mind you, it wasn't a love poem. (They had a question as a conversation starter, and I'd been reading/listening to the Poetic Edda, so I decided to try and answer in norse Ballad style.)
> 
> But I still feel silly for putting like... twenty minutes effort into making a poem that very well might never get read if they just decide they don't like my face.


On the other hand, that's one hell of an ice breaker with some decent momentum behind it.

----------


## The Fury

> On the other hand, that's one hell of an ice breaker with some decent momentum behind it.


Right. The fact that you chose a poem to open with says a lot about you and opens the door to a potentially interesting conversations. Plus, anyone that gets put off by the poem probably wouldn't be a good match for you anyway.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hey everybody. I'm very down at the dumps today because I hear some horrible news that my friend told me on the phone that his mother got the coronavirus. I was very shocked to hear this news. I'm trying to stay on the positive side but I'm really hoping his mother will feel better.  :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

> Hey everybody. I'm very down at the dumps today because I hear some horrible news that my friend told me on the phone that his mother got the coronavirus. I was very shocked to hear this news. I'm trying to stay on the positive side but I'm really hoping his mother will feel better.


If it helps, from what I've read most people that get it recover in about a week. Give or take a few days.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> If it helps, from what I've read most people that get it to recover in about a week. Give or take a few days.


Really? Yay! I really hope she'll recover from it. Now I'm happy again.  :Smile:

----------


## The Fury

Y'know, after having a lot of alone time to be introspective with, I think I figured something out about myself. I think that the reason I'm more comfortable with people just needing me to do things for them than I am with them just liking me might have to do with how I process rejection.

If someone just needs me to do things like help them move furniture, bring pizza or something, it feels less personal when they decide that they're done with me. Either they don't need my help anymore or they found someone else that can do it better than me. 

If someone wants me around because they like me... When they decide they're done with me, it's because they decide that they _don't_ like me anymore or _don't_ want me around anymore. For me, it's hard to not take that personally. It's hurtful and it feels like genuine rejection. 

If I could think of rejection as being a possibility, rather than an inevitability I think I could actually accept love when it's shown to me. Unfortunately... it hasn't worked out well for me.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

So anyway I called my friend on the phone today about the update of her mother health and it's not looking too good. She's hooked in a machine to keep her alive.  :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

> So anyway I called my friend on the phone today about the update of her mother health and it's not looking too good. She's hooked in a machine to keep her alive.


Oh man. Look, I know that it's scary. If I were you, I'd be scared too. There's still a chance that she'll pull through and be OK, right? I know that it's too small to mean much of anything, but the best I can do is just hope that thing will be alright. I'm sorry.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Oh man. Look, I know that it's scary. If I were you, I'd be scared too. There's still a chance that she'll pull through and be OK, right? I know that it's too small to mean much of anything, but the best I can do is just hope that thing will be alright. I'm sorry.


Thank you for your support. I mean I really hope she pulls through this virus.  :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

So, between the rejection I'm dealing with and the physical isolation, no school, no work, I'm spending more time in my own brain. I forgot that my brain's a pretty dark, scary place.

For a while now, I've been feeling like the best thing I can do for anyone is to not exist. Yeah. I'm going there. I'm sorry.

*Spoiler: TW: Thoughts of suicide*
Show

I called the national suicide hotline for the first time. I've felt bad before, but I can't remember the last time I've felt this bad. I feel pathetic and useless, and I can't get a certain thought out of my head-- If I died, how long before anyone noticed?

----------


## Mith

> So, between the rejection I'm dealing with and the physical isolation, no school, no work, I'm spending more time in my own brain. I forgot that my brain's a pretty dark, scary place.
> 
> For a while now, I've been feeling like the best thing I can do for anyone is to not exist. Yeah. I'm going there. I'm sorry.
> 
> *Spoiler: TW: Thoughts of suicide*
> Show
> 
> I called the national suicide hotline for the first time. I've felt bad before, but I can't remember the last time I've felt this bad. I feel pathetic and useless, and I can't get a certain thought out of my head-- If I died, how long before anyone noticed?


I cannot find the exact words, so I will have to paraphrase the best I can:

You are not your work.

You are not your productivity.

You hold value beyond all of these things.

Wisdom dictates that the death of a person is the same as the death of the world, for the loss of one person stops the incalculable changes from now into the future.

Not just because of work and what you know.  But just by you being You.
====================================

I believe that the undeniable fact of existence is that no one can stand where you are.  The paths of life takes us over many mountains and valleys, but always following our own trails.  We can offer advice based on where we've been, but no matter the similarities, we cannot offer advice based on where _you_ are.

Why all the preamble?  First to say that you are valuable just for being you. Today, at the bottom of the valley that might not feel like much, but it is true.  Second to say that while I hope that my words lend some help, I do not know your full experience to perfectly support you.  But I'll give it my best.

From what you've written here and elsewhere, I gather that you are distancing, or losing many friendships within your current circle (or a current circle).  Do you have others that you can reach out to? Friends? Family? Neighbours?  You may not be able to physically see and connect, but phone calls or video calls may help you reach out.

If you don't think outreach to those you know would work, I would suggest looking into support groups.  Not even therapy, to give you tools to process your thoughts, but as a lifeline and anchor outside your head.  This can be anything, including online game night to play and interact with other people.  You are not the only one who social isolation is difficult to deal with.

Outside of social groups, do you have anything that you enjoy focusing on?  Not necessarily anything with an end product in mind (art etc.), but something that allows you to mentally and emotionally rest.  For example, I enjoy reading and listening to music.  This allows me to stop thinking about things outside if "Now" and just relax and enjoy being.  Find what you can focus on as far as self enjoyment and embrace it.  Quarantine gives you time to do so.

Best wishes,

Mith

----------


## Bartmanhomer

So anyway I called my friend on the phone today about the updated of his mother health and he said that her health is in critical condition. I'm very sad at the moment.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

> From what you've written here and elsewhere, I gather that you are distancing, or losing many friendships within your current circle (or a current circle).  Do you have others that you can reach out to? Friends? Family? Neighbours?  You may not be able to physically see and connect, but phone calls or video calls may help you reach out.
> 
> If you don't think outreach to those you know would work, I would suggest looking into support groups.  Not even therapy, to give you tools to process your thoughts, but as a lifeline and anchor outside your head.  This can be anything, including online game night to play and interact with other people.  You are not the only one who social isolation is difficult to deal with.
> 
> Outside of social groups, do you have anything that you enjoy focusing on?  Not necessarily anything with an end product in mind (art etc.), but something that allows you to mentally and emotionally rest.  For example, I enjoy reading and listening to music.  This allows me to stop thinking about things outside if "Now" and just relax and enjoy being.  Find what you can focus on as far as self enjoyment and embrace it.  Quarantine gives you time to do so.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Mith


The short answer is no. I don't really have anyone that I can reach out to at the moment. A longer answer is that this forum is about all I have right now as the bottom fell out of my safety net.

Right now I'm having a hard time focusing on anything. The only thing I can kind of do is clean the floor and tidy the kitchen.




> So anyway I called my friend on the phone today about the updated of his mother health and he said that her health is in critical condition. I'm very sad at the moment.


How's your friend holding up?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The short answer is no. I don't really have anyone that I can reach out to at the moment. A longer answer is that this forum is about all I have right now as the bottom fell out of my safety net.
> 
> Right now I'm having a hard time focusing on anything. The only thing I can kind of do is clean the floor and tidy the kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> How's your friend holding up?


Awful. He told me the doctor wouldn't even let him see his own mother. Just what kind of doctor wouldn't let him see his own mother. She's fighting for her life.  :Mad:

----------


## Mith

> The short answer is no. I don't really have anyone that I can reach out to at the moment. A longer answer is that this forum is about all I have right now as the bottom fell out of my safety net.
> 
> Right now I'm having a hard time focusing on anything. The only thing I can kind of do is clean the floor and tidy the kitchen.


Ok.  I only ask because I know people who focus on absences without always noticing those who are still around.  But again, you know your situation better than I do.

Focus might be the wrong word, but I find that music drowns out those negative thoughts and feelings for me.  It's not that I focus on music to exclude but that it erases everything else for a time.

I know for some other people, an exercise schedule also fills that idea of a routine, a sort of inertia that keeps them going through tough times.  Again that is why I mention even online gaming groups as another source of "schedule" to keep things moving.  You've lost your old schedules and routines, so I hope this gives some ideas to replace them with new ones.

----------


## Lissou

> Awful. He told me the doctor wouldn't even let him see his own mother. Just what kind of doctor wouldn't let him see his own mother. She's fighting for her life.


My husband was in the hospital for a while, I wasn't allowed anywhere near him either. It sucks, but it's part of the lockdown/quarantine, to protect the general population. But I agree it sucks so bad, made me so angry. He was begging to see me and said nobody seemed to care. I'm sorry for your friend and for you :( I hope his mom recovers although I realise it seems dire right now :S

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> My husband was in the hospital for a while, I wasn't allowed anywhere near him either. It sucks, but it's part of the lockdown/quarantine, to protect the general population. But I agree it sucks so bad, made me so angry. He was begging to see me and said nobody seemed to care. I'm sorry for your friend and for you :( I hope his mom recovers although I realise it seems dire right now :S


I didn't know that you were married and you're right about the lockdown/quarantine part to protect the general population. I really hope she gets better.  :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

> My husband was in the hospital for a while, I wasn't allowed anywhere near him either. It sucks, but it's part of the lockdown/quarantine, to protect the general population. But I agree it sucks so bad, made me so angry. He was begging to see me and said nobody seemed to care. I'm sorry for your friend and for you :( I hope his mom recovers although I realise it seems dire right now :S


Is your husband alright now?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I feel that this whole situation is very hopeless at this point. I spoke to my friend on the phone today about an update of his mother health and she's still in critical condition and she's very close to death. I don't care if we're not related and blood.  :Mad:  She's like a mother to me and my friend and his family is considered my family as well.  :Frown:

----------


## Lissou

> Is your husband alright now?


He's doing much better, thank you for asking. He was able to come back home on Friday last week and is resting.

----------


## The Fury

> I feel that this whole situation is very hopeless at this point. I spoke to my friend on the phone today about an update of his mother health and she's still in critical condition and she's very close to death. I don't care if we're not related and blood.  She's like a mother to me and my friend and his family is considered my family as well.


I have people that I feel that way about. For all intents and purposes they are real family, and the possibility of losing them is scary. 

Don't write off the mother yet, but I encourage you and your friend to be there for each other.




> He's doing much better, thank you for asking. He was able to come back home on Friday last week and is resting.


That's a relief. Both of you stay safe.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I have people that I feel that way about. For all intents and purposes they are real family, and the possibility of losing them is scary. 
> 
> Don't write off the mother yet, but I encourage you and your friend to be there for each other.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a relief. Both of you stay safe.


Thank you. I know I've been post updates for a few days now and I feel like I want to expressed my emotions about it. I know my friend for a long time and we go to the movies together every first Saturday of the month. We're very close.  :Frown:

----------


## The Fury

It seems a small thing, I know, but I'm a little less cripplingly depressed. My friend group is at least talking to me again, so that's good. I'm still stuck thinking really mean things about myself. 

I accept that professionally, I am easy to replace, though I feel like I'm pretty easy to replace in my interpersonal relationships too. Going down the list of people I know, most of them fill a particular niche as well or better than me. I guess it's good to know that people I care about will be fine without me, but I'm still stuck wondering what my place is and whether or not anyone would notice if I disappeared.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Great news. My friend's mother is alive and well. He spoke to me on the phone a few minutes ago that his mother has woken up in the machine and she's alive and well. I'm so happy now.  :Biggrin:

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## Sermil

> Great news. My friend's mother is alive and well. He spoke to me on the phone a few minutes ago that his mother has woken up in the machine and she's alive and well. I'm so happy now.


That *is* great news! Best wishes for continued recovery!

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## Lissou

I'm glad she woke up! I hope she continues to recover :)

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## Bartmanhomer

> That *is* great news! Best wishes for continued recovery!





> I'm glad she woke up! I hope she continues to recover :)


Thank you. I like to thank everybody for the support.  :Smile:

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## Solamnicknight

> It seems a small thing, I know, but I'm a little less cripplingly depressed. My friend group is at least talking to me again, so that's good. I'm still stuck thinking really mean things about myself. 
> 
> I accept that professionally, I am easy to replace, though I feel like I'm pretty easy to replace in my interpersonal relationships too. Going down the list of people I know, most of them fill a particular niche as well or better than me. I guess it's good to know that people I care about will be fine without me, but I'm still stuck wondering what my place is and whether or not anyone would notice if I disappeared.


I may be a complete stranger but dont think like that. You have self-worth. I know from experience beating yourself up becomes this vicious cycle that makes you miss that life is worth living. What are some things you like? Books? Movies? Things in nature? I find thinking of the most beautiful and inspiring of those things can help you center yourself. Or doing something simple sitting down someplace comfy and  drinking a non alcoholic beverage like tea, hot chocolate or a soda. Also you seem to have friends and care for them so thats a big deal!

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## The Fury

> Thank you. I like to thank everybody for the support.


Not much to add, but good luck, buddy.




> I may be a complete stranger but dont think like that. You have self-worth. I know from experience beating yourself up becomes this vicious cycle that makes you miss that life is worth living. What are some things you like? Books? Movies? Things in nature? I find thinking of the most beautiful and inspiring of those things can help you center yourself. Or doing something simple sitting down someplace comfy and  drinking a non alcoholic beverage like tea, hot chocolate or a soda. Also you seem to have friends and care for them so thats a big deal!


Seeing my own value has always been hard for me. Seeing myself as a friend that can be replaced fairly easily doesn't really help that, but in a way it's sort of comforting. Like I said, if something happens to me, at least the people I care about will be fine. 

Also, I mentioned in this thread that I have trouble accepting love and care when it's shown to me. I don't really understand why anyone would act that way to me. I understand people needing me to _do_ something for them, like help them with chores or someone to vent to. When people don't necessarily need me for anything but want me around because they like me... I just find that confusing. In a weird way, it's sort of a relief that I just misunderstood the situation.

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## Solamnicknight

> Not much to add, but good luck, buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing my own value has always been hard for me. Seeing myself as a friend that can be replaced fairly easily doesn't really help that, but in a way it's sort of comforting. Like I said, if something happens to me, at least the people I care about will be fine. 
> 
> Also, I mentioned in this thread that I have trouble accepting love and care when it's shown to me. I don't really understand why anyone would act that way to me. I understand people needing me to _do_ something for them, like help them with chores or someone to vent to. When people don't necessarily need me for anything but want me around because they like me... I just find that confusing. In a weird way, it's sort of a relief that I just misunderstood the situation.


I hope I didnt make you feel worse or anything like that! Glad you are doing better though. I have self-esteem issues that came from bullying and issues when I was in school and I dont think Ive ever really gotten past them. I have autism and I feel like people use that as an excuse to manipulate or bully me at times. Ive also had workplace drama along those lines. Its this disconnect where people think Im too awkward, stupid, or naive to realize that theyre playing games with me but the problem is I do realize it and Ive had multiple instances of people being outright shocked or condescending when I stand up to them, I think they assume that being autistic means that Im dumb or dont have feelings and its draining at times.

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## The Fury

> I hope I didnt make you feel worse or anything like that! Glad you are doing better though. I have self-esteem issues that came from bullying and issues when I was in school and I dont think Ive ever really gotten past them. I have autism and I feel like people use that as an excuse to manipulate or bully me at times. Ive also had workplace drama along those lines. Its this disconnect where people think Im too awkward, stupid, or naive to realize that theyre playing games with me but the problem is I do realize it and Ive had multiple instances of people being outright shocked or condescending when I stand up to them, I think they assume that being autistic means that Im dumb or dont have feelings and its draining at times.


Many of my friends that I've had over the years, people I've dated even, are autistic or otherwise somewhere on the neurodivergent spectrum. For all I know,_ I_ might be too. So I have some understanding of the frustration. I've had people assume that autistic folks don't have feelings, or that they're dumb. Obviously that isn't true. Some people just think and feel differently.

edit: No, you didn't make me feel worse. Don't worry about it. Truthfully, the issues that I've been talking about are ones that I've been struggling with for years. I'm in a spot where I feel hopeless, but I might learn to be OK with not recovering. I'm actually pretty good at being functionally depressed.

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## Illven

Apparently I'm the biggest ******* for being able to play a game well.

----------


## The Fury

> Apparently I'm the biggest ******* for being able to play a game well.


What happened? Are folks upset with you?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I got some terrible news about my friend's mother health. Today I spoke to my friend on the phone today and he told me that her lungs have dropped pretty closer to death. She relapse. I thought things are getting better but it's really not.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

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## The Fury

> I got some terrible news about my friend's mother health. Today I spoke to my friend on the phone today and he told me that her lungs have dropped pretty closer to death. She relapse. I thought things are getting better but it's really not.


There's not much that I can say. Keep being there for each other, take care of each other.

----------


## HalfTangible

My cousin's an EMT, so he's on the front lines of this pandemic. He was exposed to the virus at least 3 times in ambulance transit and is now under quarantine for 2 weeks.  It's not definitive that he has it, I don't think, but... well, 3 chances to be exposed while inside an ambulance (those things are freaking tiny) with people who had the virus? He probably does.

He's a hearty guy tho, even if he does have it he'll pull through. Probably.

----------


## RazorChain

> My cousin's an EMT, so he's on the front lines of this pandemic. He was exposed to the virus at least 3 times in ambulance transit and is now under quarantine for 2 weeks.  It's not definitive that he has it, I don't think, but... well, 3 chances to be exposed while inside an ambulance (those things are freaking tiny) with people who had the virus? He probably does.
> 
> He's a hearty guy tho, even if he does have it he'll pull through. Probably.


If he's under 40 then the deathrate is about 0.2% and if he has no pre-existing medical conditions then it's far less.


Source: https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...nal-report.pdf
http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article...b-fea8db1a8f51

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## Lissou

Aw man Bart, I'm so sorry to hear that :( I hope things work out.

----------


## Chen

> My cousin's an EMT, so he's on the front lines of this pandemic. He was exposed to the virus at least 3 times in ambulance transit and is now under quarantine for 2 weeks.  It's not definitive that he has it, I don't think, but... well, 3 chances to be exposed while inside an ambulance (those things are freaking tiny) with people who had the virus? He probably does.
> 
> He's a hearty guy tho, even if he does have it he'll pull through. Probably.


I mean if he had PPE and the patients didnt directly cough on his face or something this doesnt necessarily mean hed catch it. Doctors are managing to treat patients and not get it. The fact hes in quarantine may imply there was more contact or a particular incident I suppose though.

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## The Fury

So, I screwed up again.

*Spoiler: TW: discussion of suicide*
Show

As I've mentioned earlier, I've been feeling suicidal. I'm much better now, and I have called the National Suicide Prevention line. That said, I feel like the people I'm closest with deserve to know what's been happening with me. So there's a short list of people that I felt I should tell, and most of them handled it fairly good. Then there was my friend that I speak to over video chat regularly... when I told her she started crying. Now to put this into context, normally this friend doesn't cry and is pretty reserved so I didn't think she'd react that way. This was shortly after her cat died, so I can't help but think that the timing was bad and I should have waited. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but sometimes I'm the literal worst.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> So, I screwed up again.
> 
> *Spoiler: TW: discussion of suicide*
> Show
> 
> As I've mentioned earlier, I've been feeling suicidal. I'm much better now, and I have called the National Suicide Prevention line. That said, I feel like the people I'm closest with deserve to know what's been happening with me. So there's a short list of people that I felt I should tell, and most of them handled it fairly good. Then there was my friend that I speak to over video chat regularly... when I told her she started crying. Now to put this into context, normally this friend doesn't cry and is pretty reserved so I didn't think she'd react that way. This was shortly after her cat died, so I can't help but think that the timing was bad and I should have waited. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but sometimes I'm the literal worst.


Ennui and depression make it hard to interpret other people's reactions. Your friend had a sympathetic response, telling you how important you are to them. Your depression is causing you to see interpret signs of emotional closeness and as selfishness on your part, what you need to do now is reach out more and reassure them not withdraw to spare them.

No one is quite sure why depression is so self-protective, but it has a well known mechanism of interpreting things and steering actions towards self-harm and away from getting better.

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## The Fury

> Ennui and depression make it hard to interpret other people's reactions. Your friend had a sympathetic response, telling you how important you are to them. Your depression is causing you to see interpret signs of emotional closeness and as selfishness on your part, what you need to do now is reach out more and reassure them not withdraw to spare them.
> 
> No one is quite sure why depression is so self-protective, but it has a well known mechanism of interpreting things and steering actions towards self-harm and away from getting better.


The other two people I've told had a pretty sympathetic response too. They were both understandably worried and upset. I don't think they cried though, it was over voice chat so I wasn't sure. I guess I was just... shocked? I honestly didn't think my friend would react that way.

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## Bartmanhomer

Hey everybody. I got terrible and sad news about my friend mother health. Today he called me a few minutes ago that his mother has passed away. I was very devastated to hear the news. I thought that she was getting better but she wasn't. I'm very upset right now.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

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## Lissou

That is so sad, I'm so sorry :( Hugs to you and your friend.

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## Sermil

> Hey everybody. I got terrible and sad news about my friend mother health. Today he called me a few minutes ago that his mother has passed away. I was very devastated to hear the news. I thought that she was getting better but she wasn't. I'm very upset right now.


 :Frown:  So sorry to hear that. You have my sympathy.

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## Bartmanhomer

> That is so sad, I'm so sorry :( Hugs to you and your friend.





> So sorry to hear that. You have my sympathy.


Thank you both. I've been supported by my friend since this troubling times and we've going to go through together.  :Frown:

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## The Fury

> Thank you both. I've been supported by my friend since this troubling times and we've going to go through together.


The only way you get through this is together, right? Keep being there for one another, it's how we survive.

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## Comrade

Times like this I sure wish I felt comfortable confiding in friends. I never was the kinda guy to open up to folks in my life about things that are weighing on me, just never really learned to do it. Being down in the dumps all by my lonesome is kind of a bummer (and the quarantine ain't helping).

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## halfeye

> Times like this I sure wish I felt comfortable confiding in friends. I never was the kinda guy to open up to folks in my life about things that are weighing on me, just never really learned to do it. Being down in the dumps all by my lonesome is kind of a bummer (and the quarantine ain't helping).


For me the quaratine is life as usual. Play games, read comics and webserials. There's plenty to do. Chat on message boards like this one if you need people. That song about "people who need people being the luckiest people" really annoyed me, because I was brought up 1/4 mile from almost everyone, and I like people, but I DON'T need the beggars.

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## Comrade

You got me all wrong. It's not that I don't have people-- I've still been able to see friends, either through Zoom hangouts or one-on-one in person-- or that I have nothing to do with the quarantine (I'm working two jobs remotely and am a full-time student online, my schedule ain't exactly bare). Just that I wish I was more capable of being vulnerable even with trusted friends. Be nice to be able to get stuff off my chest that way.

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## The Fury

> You got me all wrong. It's not that I don't have people-- I've still been able to see friends, either through Zoom hangouts or one-on-one in person-- or that I have nothing to do with the quarantine (I'm working two jobs remotely and am a full-time student online, my schedule ain't exactly bare). Just that I wish I was more capable of being vulnerable even with trusted friends. Be nice to be able to get stuff off my chest that way.


Speaking for myself, vulnerability is _hard_. In truth, I'm actually really bad at it and I feel like I'm a very guarded person. It's only recently that I felt safe opening up to people at all. I'm really only _kind_ of able to be candid and vulnerable partly because of friends being so open and trusting to me about their struggles. Another part of it was the fact that I've wanted that kind of relationship for so long. 

I know what I'm dealing with isn't quite the same as what you are, but I bring it up to show that having that friendship where you can talk things through can take a lot of time. Even when you have a friend who you feel safe around, (and learning to trust someone with your feelings can be big thing too,) it can take time to sort through what you're comfortable sharing and with whom.

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## Bartmanhomer

So anyway I would like to thank everybody for all the support. I know this wasn't the easiest time to express my feeling since I always updated on my friend's mother health every day. By at the end, she's no longer in pain. So thanks, everybody. FYI, my friend and his family are hanging in there and I'm supporting them. So again thanks.  :Frown:

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## Lissou

No worries, it's important to stick together. This could have been anyone's mom. I'm glad you guys are hanging in there and you're right, she's not in pain anymore, that much is good at least :S

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## dehro

So... After 5 years together, me causing some pretty harmful things to or relationship, finding out to I can't have children, some more pretty tough times and circumstances, the better part of a year spent in different countries coming down to not seeing one another since before the pandemic exploded in Italy, my girlfriend has called it quits and, after some soul-searching,I find myself agreeing with her. We love one another very much, but the deck is just too stacked against us being happy together.
I find myself having to come to terms with the idea of being single, of loving someone but having to move on and get over her.
It's not easy.

Not looking for anything in particular, just had to get it off my chest

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## The Fury

> So anyway I would like to thank everybody for all the support. I know this wasn't the easiest time to express my feeling since I always updated on my friend's mother health every day. By at the end, she's no longer in pain. So thanks, everybody. FYI, my friend and his family are hanging in there and I'm supporting them. So again thanks.


I'm very sorry for your loss. I guess in the coming days/weeks/unspecified intervals of time, it's important to take the time to process your grief however you deal with it. I don't know how you deal with it, maybe you're feeling inconsolably sad, and that's OK. Maybe you're feeling relatively fine, and that's OK too. All of you be safe.




> So... After 5 years together, me causing some pretty harmful things to or relationship, finding out to I can't have children, some more pretty tough times and circumstances, the better part of a year spent in different countries coming down to not seeing one another since before the pandemic exploded in Italy, my girlfriend has called it quits and, after some soul-searching,I find myself agreeing with her. We love one another very much, but the deck is just too stacked against us being happy together.
> I find myself having to come to terms with the idea of being single, of loving someone but having to move on and get over her.
> It's not easy.
> 
> Not looking for anything in particular, just had to get it off my chest


Hey, if you need to get it off your chest that's fine. As long as your feelings aren't eating you up anymore. I might not know entirely how your relationship ended, in fact I know I don't, but I know that breakups hurt. As bad as they might feel, keep in mind that you're still a person capable of love and you still deserve to be loved. It might be too soon to start a relationship with someone new, but that doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

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## dehro

> I might not know entirely how your relationship ended, in fact I know I don't, but I know that breakups hurt.


eh.. it ended consensually... we are still friends and sort of helping each other getting through it... I've taken today and tomorrow off so that instead of sitting home working I can....well... sit at home doing something else, which is good.. I didn't have the clarity of mind to work. oddly enough, the pandemic is also delaying dealing with the practical matters such as flying back to Italy to sort out paperwork, move out my things and such. She's being gracious about it and my stuff doesn't bother her (it's mostly books and she has a big house, so it's not like they're in the way... but still, it's nice). of course I am in something of a mourning about it anyway, but it's manageable.
thank you for your words, however.. they are appreciated.

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## The Fury

I'm not sure what I need right now, maybe I just need to vent. I'm sorry. I'm still learning to be OK with what I am and what I can be. I don't think I'm really capable of romantic partnerships, yet part of me really wants it. Part of me really wants to hold hands with someone or fall asleep in someone's arms. I'd really like to have a serious platonic bond with someone too-- one where I could feel comfortable telling them anything, and one where they could do the same. 

People in my life usually don't ever want to get that close to me though. When they do, they eventually cut me out of their life. I guess I hurt people when I get close to them. I feel like I might be best as that kind of work acquaintance that someone might invite to a barbecue in order to be polite but hopes won't show up. All that is kind of a painful thing to learn to OK with. I guess that's why we have therapists, right?

All that said, I'm sorry. With what's happening out there, what I'm feeling seems too small to really matter. I'm not dying or anything.

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## HalfTangible

> I'm not sure what I need right now, maybe I just need to vent. I'm sorry. I'm still learning to be OK with what I am and what I can be. I don't think I'm really capable of romantic partnerships, yet part of me really wants it. Part of me really wants to hold hands with someone or fall asleep in someone's arms. I'd really like to have a serious platonic bond with someone too-- one where I could feel comfortable telling them anything, and one where they could do the same. 
> 
> People in my life usually don't ever want to get that close to me though. When they do, they eventually cut me out of their life. I guess I hurt people when I get close to them. I feel like I might be best as that kind of work acquaintance that someone might invite to a barbecue in order to be polite but hopes won't show up. All that is kind of a painful thing to learn to OK with. I guess that's why we have therapists, right?
> 
> All that said, I'm sorry. With what's happening out there, what I'm feeling seems too small to really matter. I'm not dying or anything.


I feel the same, if it helps. No amount of self-improvement or learning to stay calm seems to stop me from feelings of inadequacy or blowing up in people's faces. (although right at this moment I'm annoyed because someone who thinks I'm an animal decided to be a prick again) Part of me wants to find a girl to hold and to love, but I'm also terrified that I'd either be taken advantage of or turn into an abuser. Neither of which is worth it. And that's leaving aside the fact that I'm a creepy weirdo nobody wants to hang around in the first place.

Your problem doesn't sound small to me. If it does to you, remember: someone having worse problems than you doesn't mean your problems are invalid. I got cancer in 2017 that was removed without serious fuss. The fact that others have had inoperable tumors that kill them slowly and for whom the only treatment is chemo does not mean I didn't need surgery. The fact that people are dying from Coronavirus does not mean your pain/loneliness isn't real.

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## The Fury

> I feel the same, if it helps. No amount of self-improvement or learning to stay calm seems to stop me from feelings of inadequacy or blowing up in people's faces. (although right at this moment I'm annoyed because someone who thinks I'm an animal decided to be a prick again) Part of me wants to find a girl to hold and to love, but I'm also terrified that I'd either be taken advantage of or turn into an abuser. Neither of which is worth it. And that's leaving aside the fact that I'm a creepy weirdo nobody wants to hang around in the first place.


I'm not sure if what we're feeling is the same. Not to invalidate you or anything. While I do feel inadequate a lot of the time, (other times, it's full-on self-loathing,) I don't really worry too much about losing my temper with people or actively hurting them. I feel like my toxicity is more quiet and more passive, which might make me even worse. I don't want to hurt anyone, but I do. Even if I don't mean to. Just the other day, I found out that someone that doesn't want to talk to me anymore stopped talking to me because the way I acted when I got scared reminded them of their mother. Their mother is also controlling and emotionally manipulative. I feel like getting rid of me was probably the smart choice, and it's actually good that others followed suit in order to make sure they had emotional support without it being weird. It's painful to admit that, but it's true. 




> Your problem doesn't sound small to me. If it does to you, remember: someone having worse problems than you doesn't mean your problems are invalid. I got cancer in 2017 that was removed without serious fuss. The fact that others have had inoperable tumors that kill them slowly and for whom the only treatment is chemo does not mean I didn't need surgery. The fact that people are dying from Coronavirus does not mean your pain/loneliness isn't real.


It still feels small to me, and I still feel guilty about needing to talk about it. After all, I'm likely going to be alive tomorrow. I'll likely be alive at the end of next week. The people that I care about probably will be too, in fact they'll probably be better than ever without me. 

I remember you talking about your surgery. That was around the time I fractured my hand, I think. I still have a metal plate in it by the way. Funnily enough I almost didn't have the fracture diagnosed if people on this forum didn't urge me to see a doctor regarding pain in my chest. It turned out the pain was just being caused by stress, usually my stress levels aren't severe enough to cause physical pain but they still do sometimes. Now I get pain in my hand when I'm stressed too.

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## HalfTangible

> I'm not sure if what we're feeling is the same. Not to invalidate you or anything. While I do feel inadequate a lot of the time, (other times, it's full-on self-loathing,) I don't really worry too much about losing my temper with people or actively hurting them. I feel like my toxicity is more quiet and more passive, which might make me even worse. I don't want to hurt anyone, but I do. Even if I don't mean to. Just the other day, I found out that someone that doesn't want to talk to me anymore stopped talking to me because the way I acted when I got scared reminded them of their mother. Their mother is also controlling and emotionally manipulative. I feel like getting rid of me was probably the smart choice, and it's actually good that others followed suit in order to make sure they had emotional support without it being weird. It's painful to admit that, but it's true. 
> 
> 
> 
> It still feels small to me, and I still feel guilty about needing to talk about it. After all, I'm likely going to be alive tomorrow. I'll likely be alive at the end of next week. The people that I care about probably will be too, in fact they'll probably be better than ever without me. 
> 
> I remember you talking about your surgery. That was around the time I fractured my hand, I think. I still have a metal plate in it by the way. Funnily enough I almost didn't have the fracture diagnosed if people on this forum didn't urge me to see a doctor regarding pain in my chest. It turned out the pain was just being caused by stress, usually my stress levels aren't severe enough to cause physical pain but they still do sometimes. Now I get pain in my hand when I'm stressed too.


It's not *exactly* the same, but it's similar from where I'm standing. You could've taken HalfOf the things said here right out of my mouth. When people get close they leave, I feel terrible for telling people about my problems, when I get upset I hurt people even if I don't mean to... 

Just know you're not alone, okay?

----------


## The Fury

> It's not *exactly* the same, but it's similar from where I'm standing. You could've taken HalfOf the things said here right out of my mouth. When people get close they leave, I feel terrible for telling people about my problems, when I get upset I hurt people even if I don't mean to... 
> 
> Just know you're not alone, okay?


Again, I don't mean to invalidate what you said. If I did, I'm sorry. I sincerely hope that you're _not_ like me. Maybe I'm only saying that because I feel hopeless right now. I'd like it if you still had hope. I get that you're upset sometimes and being upset is normal. You seem to be implying that you're working on ways to channel those feelings in a more productive way, so that's good.

I've had fears about myself for years now. I worry that I'm a monster wearing a mask of a decent person. A mask that's so convincing that even _I_ think it's real sometimes. Moments like people leaving are hard for me because in that moment, I feel like my worst fear about myself is completely true.

----------


## The Fury

I guess it's been a minute, and I still feel a little guilty that I'm bringing more problems than solutions. Here goes though.

In another online community, someone asked the question, "If Coronavirus was gone for one day and we'd go back to being in quarantine the day after, what would you do?"

Some people had more extravagant answers, which y'know... fair. Mine was a fairly lowkey trying to see as many of my friends as I could. One of the more extravagant answers someone gave was taking everyone they knew to Switzerland. That prompted the person who posted the original question to clarify, what would you _realistically_ do if Coronavirus was gone for one day.

At that point I had to admit that my answer wasn't really realistic either. But because it was a thread with a lot of positivity, I didn't want to amend what I said. My realistic answer would be something closer to this-- I'd try reaching out to people via text, find that they won't respond to me or already have plans. After that, I'd probably justify it by thinking that I'm probably not fit to be around people anyway. Then go on a walk to no particular destination and end up in a dive staring into a pint of beer as the place is starting to wind down. 

I just feel a little frustrated that even in imagined scenarios where something objectively good happens, I still end up sad.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

*Spoiler: Here be Thoughts*
Show

Right, so I am hardly a proponent of self-diagnosis - that is to say that I understand the inherent biases and lack of expertise, medical training and other flaws in that practice - but I am fairly positive that I am someone who suffers from at least a mild case of Borderline Personality Disorder. If not BPD, then I certainly have enough of the symptoms from that list that my problem is essentially the same.

 I have been engaging in self-destructive and repetitive patterns of behavior since I was about fifteen years old. These patterns most commonly involve self-harm, ranging from minor cuts to more serious attempts. The physical harm is not especially common, but the 'burst periods' of intense sadness and depression leading to suicidal ideation definitely is. I find myself confronted with those thoughts rather often. In the past those behaviors have been accompanied by binge drinking, drug use, and other assorted activities, though I've done pretty well to curb them in the recent past. I often form intense relationships with people that 'ebb and flow' in a manner that seems erratic to my mind. For instance, I am dating a woman in my mind who is absolutely incredible: I can't get enough of her, she's a perfect match for me intellectually, physically, and ethically. However, I go through these strange blips of absolutely hating her for no reason that I can find. I'm just suddenly overcome by this loathing, this sense of shame and disgust towards her very proximity to me. I know it's not rational, but I just want her to _leave me alone_ about 5-10% of the time. We don't live together, by the way (so I haven't physically seen her in a few weeks). I am 4/4 on the list of 'unstable relationships' from the linked site above. Not all of those happen at the same time, or even with the same people, but I can safely say that I have done every single one of those things more than twice. That alone seems to convince me that I have some form of BPD or something else quite like it. I don't feel resilient or well-adjusted: I feel lonely or empty for long periods of time, broken up by the depression that I mentioned above, or else by intense periods of rage. For most of my friends, they're either in 'best friend' territory or 'I would literally not help you if you were drowning' - and there is a very scant middle ground.
This is not a cry for pity, or for attention. To be honest, I mostly just wanted to write these words down, and have them kept somewhere that is not entirely in my control. I'd love to pretend that the writing was therapeutic - we'll say that it was. But the real reason I wrote all this is because I am looking for honest, helpful advice. I'm not sure what my next steps are. Practically speaking, my life is not too bad (other than being isolated from 99.9999% of the population, but really I don't mind the solitude and the silence): I've been promoted at my job, which has actually proven remarkably difficult. I haven't seen any of my family in 8 months, which is fantastic; if I could disappear from their lives without a trace, I would do it in a heartbeat.

So... what next? There are no doctor's offices open here for the kind of consultation that I want (I'm a Canadian currently living in the UK) as someone who only has their residence permit and not a general physician. I can't exactly go to a pharmacy and ask for medication without a prescription, and I am frankly not all that interested in that route in any case. What should my approach be?

----------


## The Fury

> *Spoiler: Here be Thoughts*
> Show
> 
> Right, so I am hardly a proponent of self-diagnosis - that is to say that I understand the inherent biases and lack of expertise, medical training and other flaws in that practice - but I am fairly positive that I am someone who suffers from at least a mild case of Borderline Personality Disorder. If not BPD, then I certainly have enough of the symptoms from that list that my problem is essentially the same.
> 
>  I have been engaging in self-destructive and repetitive patterns of behavior since I was about fifteen years old. These patterns most commonly involve self-harm, ranging from minor cuts to more serious attempts. The physical harm is not especially common, but the 'burst periods' of intense sadness and depression leading to suicidal ideation definitely is. I find myself confronted with those thoughts rather often. In the past those behaviors have been accompanied by binge drinking, drug use, and other assorted activities, though I've done pretty well to curb them in the recent past. I often form intense relationships with people that 'ebb and flow' in a manner that seems erratic to my mind. For instance, I am dating a woman in my mind who is absolutely incredible: I can't get enough of her, she's a perfect match for me intellectually, physically, and ethically. However, I go through these strange blips of absolutely hating her for no reason that I can find. I'm just suddenly overcome by this loathing, this sense of shame and disgust towards her very proximity to me. I know it's not rational, but I just want her to _leave me alone_ about 5-10% of the time. We don't live together, by the way (so I haven't physically seen her in a few weeks). I am 4/4 on the list of 'unstable relationships' from the linked site above. Not all of those happen at the same time, or even with the same people, but I can safely say that I have done every single one of those things more than twice. That alone seems to convince me that I have some form of BPD or something else quite like it. I don't feel resilient or well-adjusted: I feel lonely or empty for long periods of time, broken up by the depression that I mentioned above, or else by intense periods of rage. For most of my friends, they're either in 'best friend' territory or 'I would literally not help you if you were drowning' - and there is a very scant middle ground.
> This is not a cry for pity, or for attention. To be honest, I mostly just wanted to write these words down, and have them kept somewhere that is not entirely in my control. I'd love to pretend that the writing was therapeutic - we'll say that it was. But the real reason I wrote all this is because I am looking for honest, helpful advice. I'm not sure what my next steps are. Practically speaking, my life is not too bad (other than being isolated from 99.9999% of the population, but really I don't mind the solitude and the silence): I've been promoted at my job, which has actually proven remarkably difficult. I haven't seen any of my family in 8 months, which is fantastic; if I could disappear from their lives without a trace, I would do it in a heartbeat.
> 
> So... what next? There are no doctor's offices open here for the kind of consultation that I want (I'm a Canadian currently living in the UK) as someone who only has their residence permit and not a general physician. I can't exactly go to a pharmacy and ask for medication without a prescription, and I am frankly not all that interested in that route in any case. What should my approach be?


*Spoiler: Thoughts about thoughts*
Show

I can't in good conscience tell you what to do next. I'm not a mental health expert of any kind, so there's virtually nothing that I can do in the way of practical advice. I've wondered about my own mental health condition too. I'm pretty sure that I have something, but I've never had any sort of formal diagnosis and I'm not even sure how I could get one.  

All that being said, I've had feelings similar to yours and skimming the NHS article it's possible that I have BPD too. 

Something in particular stuck out to me, You mentioned that you wanted to disappear from your family's lives without a trace. Why do you feel like that? That is, if you don't mind saying. 

The best I can really do is wish you the best. It's not much. In fact, it's a half of a step above nothing, and for that I'm sorry. Good luck.

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## Rydiro

> ...


Get professional support. I know thats not easy, but even generalist doctors could probably point you in a better direction than this forum could.
I know, good doctors are rare. Good therapists are rare. And they might not be the same person.

And keep up working to better yourself, its a good thing, Im proud of you.

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## Grytorm

Depression is getting worse and I have discovered a major problem with refusing to talk to admit to others about my depression. Each time I lie and underplay how I am feeling it gets a little harder to admit to the habit. 

Trying to come up with specifics about why I am depressed is difficult for a number of reasons. When I am feeling bad about myself in one way it tends to make me feel bad about a lot of things. And it takes a lot of effort to actually catalogue a list of petty complaints against my own character.

I guess a general feeling of pointlessness and frustration with my lack of focus. Guilt about how I act. Generic poor body image. Disorganized life. Being 26. Lack of friends (though it is better than a few years ago so it gets tricky) and a desire to enter into a relationship which I find perverse because it influences how I interact with most women and I feel like a creep. 

To elaborate. A couple of older women who are friends with the family I get annoying intrusive thoughts. Women around my age, especially smart interesting ones, I end up developing attraction and romantic desires in relation to them seeking to interact more positively. I've gotten better at actually being generically friendly as well which is good. I really need to internalize that people are just being nice to me and that I should give up hope that anyone cares about me. 

I know that is not the actual conclusion I should reach. But it nicely ties into feelings of hopelessness. I have doubts about my capacity for self improvement. I have come up with many okay ideas and abandoned them. Other ideas I have had I have only gone around in little pointless circles with them. My social life is weak, my circumstances make it difficult to improve, and I doubt I would enjoy some options for being social. 

And tying back into the whole thing about crushes. I think it would be better if they never happened. I harbor no real hope of reciprocation and false hope leads only toward bad ends. Elevated feelings of despair. Or temptation toward innapropriate behavior.

*Spoiler: Digression Predicting Responses*
Show

 Now to predict responses. I might be ignored which is always an interesting experience. Suggestions that I need to just focus on my general social life instead of actively look for a romantic partner becauae apparently it will somehow just happen. Reminders of the people close to me and how I improve their lives. Admonitions to be more open about my troubles to my family and my therapist. Advice that I should look into therapy. Claims of being here if I need it.

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## The Fury

> Depression is getting worse and I have discovered a major problem with refusing to talk to admit to others about my depression. Each time I lie and underplay how I am feeling it gets a little harder to admit to the habit. 
> 
> Trying to come up with specifics about why I am depressed is difficult for a number of reasons. When I am feeling bad about myself in one way it tends to make me feel bad about a lot of things. And it takes a lot of effort to actually catalogue a list of petty complaints against my own character.
> 
> I guess a general feeling of pointlessness and frustration with my lack of focus. Guilt about how I act. Generic poor body image. Disorganized life. Being 26. Lack of friends (though it is better than a few years ago so it gets tricky) and a desire to enter into a relationship which I find perverse because it influences how I interact with most women and I feel like a creep. 
> 
> To elaborate. A couple of older women who are friends with the family I get annoying intrusive thoughts. Women around my age, especially smart interesting ones, I end up developing attraction and romantic desires in relation to them seeking to interact more positively. I've gotten better at actually being generically friendly as well which is good. I really need to internalize that people are just being nice to me and that I should give up hope that anyone cares about me. 
> 
> I know that is not the actual conclusion I should reach. But it nicely ties into feelings of hopelessness. I have doubts about my capacity for self improvement. I have come up with many okay ideas and abandoned them. Other ideas I have had I have only gone around in little pointless circles with them. My social life is weak, my circumstances make it difficult to improve, and I doubt I would enjoy some options for being social. 
> ...


Mostly drawing on my own experience here, yours might be different. Trying to talk about the specifics of depression is hard, just because it's... not _neat_. Causes of depression don't often come in tidy little categories that you can point at and say, "yeah, that." 

On that note, do you think frank discussions about how you're feeling might help?

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## Powerdork

It's hard to relate to people.

It's always been hard to relate to people, from my first memories of thinking about how other people matter to me, but these days it's getting harder. Nobody in my circles has the time (or if they have the time, they don't have the interest) to talk or interact in any way about things that matter to me (or if something matters to both of us, it's something that talking about would be unproductive, like politics), and in part because of money troubles and in part because I'm not in the US, I'm unable to experience things that will help me bond with others, such as watching recent films, or playing video games.

I can't get a well-paying job because I work in a family business with the opposite of a schedule (I just worked a 21-hour day after about 5 months of inactivity), and the work dried up because of public health concerns but this also means I can't get a job.

And I'm not even going to start on gender and how people treat the Other.

I'm so tired of it all.

----------


## Grytorm

> Mostly drawing on my own experience here, yours might be different. Trying to talk about the specifics of depression is hard, just because it's... not _neat_. Causes of depression don't often come in tidy little categories that you can point at and say, "yeah, that." 
> 
> On that note, do you think frank discussions about how you're feeling might help?


Yeah in general just talking about how I am feeling is a big help which makes trying to hide stuff really stupid. As for causes and stuff. Yeah it is just general everything I guess because I don't really have any major stressors in my life. Which I think is probably really good because stressors + depression are not a safe combination.

----------


## The Fury

> It's hard to relate to people.
> 
> It's always been hard to relate to people, from my first memories of thinking about how other people matter to me, but these days it's getting harder. Nobody in my circles has the time (or if they have the time, they don't have the interest) to talk or interact in any way about things that matter to me (or if something matters to both of us, it's something that talking about would be unproductive, like politics), and in part because of money troubles and in part because I'm not in the US, I'm unable to experience things that will help me bond with others, such as watching recent films, or playing video games.
> 
> I can't get a well-paying job because I work in a family business with the opposite of a schedule (I just worked a 21-hour day after about 5 months of inactivity), and the work dried up because of public health concerns but this also means I can't get a job.
> 
> And I'm not even going to start on gender and how people treat the Other.
> 
> I'm so tired of it all.


I feel the whole not relating well to other people. I don't think you're dealing with something that's specifically like my experience, but I do wish that I had more to talk about with other people. I don't know if you need constructive advice right now, if you do I'm sorry, I don't have any. The best I can really do for anyone right now is to pay attention to what they have to say.




> Yeah in general just talking about how I am feeling is a big help which makes trying to hide stuff really stupid. As for causes and stuff. Yeah it is just general everything I guess because I don't really have any major stressors in my life. Which I think is probably really good because stressors + depression are not a safe combination.


If it's helping, then you should definitely do it. Keep posting here, and I'll do my best to keep reading and keep responding. Whatever you're comfortable sharing. 

It's true. Depression and stress tend to result in worse depression and worse stress. That's how it goes with trying to manage mine anyway.

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## Grytorm

> If it's helping, then you should definitely do it. Keep posting here, and I'll do my best to keep reading and keep responding. Whatever you're comfortable sharing. 
> 
> It's true. Depression and stress tend to result in worse depression and worse stress. That's how it goes with trying to manage mine anyway.


What do I have to say. I guess I can say a little about feelings of futility. I still live at home, I have never had a job, never been on a real date, I have lots of ideas but I have never made anything of them, I'm bad at roleplaying, I spend much of my time playing videogames I never finish, I don't really know if I have any goals right now, and probably some other stuff I can't think of at the moment. Ah, I don't play with my cat or the new dog enough. Mhmm. There is also the fact that I can't really get much reading done despite the wonderful opportunity presented by current conditions. Though part of that is the large piles of books I have that I want to read and trying to get through books even if they haven't grabbed my attention. And feelings that I have wasted my potential. 

In high school I was smart, it was about the only compliment anyone could think of for an activity in Spanish class. I did great until Senior year when I started to struggle. The struggling and the delaying and the poor performance worsened at the university where I was at first going to study engineering. After a year in which I failed numerous classes including ballroom dancing I ended up returning home and signing up for community college. There I did well again and I eventually decided to go into history as a major. From there i started going to another university which I feel like I don't have time to talk about now.

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## The Fury

> What do I have to say. I guess I can say a little about feelings of futility. I still live at home, I have never had a job, never been on a real date, I have lots of ideas but I have never made anything of them, I'm bad at roleplaying, I spend much of my time playing videogames I never finish, I don't really know if I have any goals right now, and probably some other stuff I can't think of at the moment. Ah, I don't play with my cat or the new dog enough. Mhmm. There is also the fact that I can't really get much reading done despite the wonderful opportunity presented by current conditions. Though part of that is the large piles of books I have that I want to read and trying to get through books even if they haven't grabbed my attention. And feelings that I have wasted my potential.


I feel some of that too. Especially lately, I have trouble focusing on anything longer than a few minutes. I'm not sure if you're feeling guilty about not using your sudden abundance of time well, but I feel like there's a lot of people that are feeling sad and unmotivated. Has it been this way for a long time for you, or is it mostly recent?




> In high school I was smart, it was about the only compliment anyone could think of for an activity in Spanish class. I did great until Senior year when I started to struggle. The struggling and the delaying and the poor performance worsened at the university where I was at first going to study engineering. After a year in which I failed numerous classes including ballroom dancing I ended up returning home and signing up for community college. There I did well again and I eventually decided to go into history as a major. From there i started going to another university which I feel like I don't have time to talk about now.


Could it be that you still are smart? I mean, maybe you hit a slump during your senior year and you needed some time to get out of it?

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## darkdragoon

I was tabbed as gifted early on but in a sense that was kind of like "eh, go do this activity" instead of really focusing on my talents and weaknesses. As it is age 17-19 was kind of a perfect storm.  I think for me the bothersome part was thinking that I still could have or more aptly should have trudged through, and that by simply going through the motions a lot of friction would have been avoided.

Early 200s I thought I had everything in order both in love and war shall we say but none of that panned out.  So I continued to tread water until my current job which has its highs and lows but I am happy where I am professionally.

Personally I haven't exactly been a stud either but I do think it's funny certain work colleagues seem to bring up the "so you don't mind that I have kids" and the like.  I was even kind of joking with one "it's nice that I have options but I wish one of you ladies would step forward."

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## Thrawn4

> I've had fears about myself for years now. I worry that I'm a monster wearing a mask of a decent person. A mask that's so convincing that even _I_ think it's real sometimes. Moments like people leaving are hard for me because in that moment, I feel like my worst fear about myself is completely true.


That statement caught my attention.

You know, I am a firm believer of the phrase "Words are cheap", in the sense of "Deeds matter more than words."

And then I had a closer look at this thread.




> Mostly drawing on my own experience here, yours might be different. Trying to talk about the specifics of depression is hard, just because it's... not _neat_. Causes of depression don't often come in tidy little categories that you can point at and say, "yeah, that." 
> 
> On that note, do you think frank discussions about how you're feeling might help?


--> you offering advice and help




> The best I can really do for anyone right now is to pay attention to what they have to say.


--> you helping just by listening




> Could it be that you still are smart? I mean, maybe you hit a slump during your senior year and you needed some time to get out of it?


--> you offering support


And all of this is only from the current page, which means there is probably a lot more if I had an even closer look.
It doesn't strike me as monstrous.
Quite the contrary, I get the impression of someone who helps others despite being in a bad place. That's the kind of person people want to be friends with. It's definitely a quality I am looking for in a friend.

So I guess it is around this time that the mean little voice in your head is contradicting me. Maybe something along the lines of "Well I didn't really help them. I didn't really change things."
Which is bull**** for two reasons:
First, just being there can be a tremendous support. You probably know that feeling, it's why most of us come to this thread.
Second, and even more important, the facts STILL contradict the theory of your being a monster. Monsters don't help, good folks do.
You are good people to have around.

Fear is a liar. Don't let it get to you.

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## The Fury

Thrawn4, I unfortunately don't have a response as well thought out as yours. I am actually crying right now. All I can really say is thank you. Thank you for putting in so much effort to try understanding me and some of my worst fears. It really does mean a lot.

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## Grytorm

Well sorry I didn't keep posting I think. Didn't have anything in particular that I wanted to say. But thank you for the responses I got from you The Fury. Deppression ebbs and flows and it has come back to trouble me again. Its fairly nonspecific feeling just bad about myself, nothing new really to add compared to last time. Did the stupid thing and didn't say too much about my depression when talking to my psychologist and my psychiatrist. Mind has been retreading some really dark spaces but it doesn't feel too overwhelming at the moment.

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## The Fury

> Well sorry I didn't keep posting I think. Didn't have anything in particular that I wanted to say. But thank you for the responses I got from you The Fury. Deppression ebbs and flows and it has come back to trouble me again. Its fairly nonspecific feeling just bad about myself, nothing new really to add compared to last time. Did the stupid thing and didn't say too much about my depression when talking to my psychologist and my psychiatrist. Mind has been retreading some really dark spaces but it doesn't feel too overwhelming at the moment.


I appreciate you taking the time to thank me, I'm glad that I was able to be kind of helpful. Anyway, don't worry too much about posting. Just do it when you feel like it's appropriate or might help you. 

Would you say you've got your depression to a point where it's manageable though? I mean, if you're anything like me, it never really goes away. Some days are better than others though.

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## The Fury

Ever have one of those epiphanies that just makes you feel worse about yourself?

Something that caused some friction with friends is the fact that I tend to assume that I'm not invited to things unless I'm told specifically that I am. You know, like a vampire. 

It makes sense to me anyway, I don't want to impose. People have their own lives and it's not fair for me to needlessly insert myself into them. Though this seems to cause some frustration with me. I'm always assuming that someone is asking me to give them a lift to a friend's house or they need time away from me. It never occurs to me that someone might want me to stay. This has actually gotten friends outright mad at me after the fact. Most of the time though, it usually comes to an "I don't understand. Why are you like this?" sort of conversation.

When my sister came to visit late at night, unannounced and immediately got into how messy the house was, I started thinking about how my relationship with her went. We'd lived together for most of our lives, though we're pretty distant in our adult lives. If she had a friend visit from out of town or if she was hosting a party, I'd be asked to leave the house until the guest(s) went home. Usually I'd be asked to get ingredients for something at the store or help clean before leaving. Just to be clear, I love my sister, I'm just starting to think that our relationship might not be good. Further, maybe I picked up some lessons that are actively damaging my other relationships? 

Also, sorry. This thread is really turning into "The The Fury Show."

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## HalfTangible

> Also, sorry. This thread is really turning into "The The Fury Show."


Eh. *shrug* If ya got problems you should talk about them. My current woes and anger deal with various people on the forums at the moment (getting kicked out of a friends group, for example, and the realization that I shouldn't have even tried to be friends with certain people in the first place esp past a certain point) which makes them hard to talk about.

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## el minster

Fury, this thread is called the "personal woes and advice thread" so if your a human you post your woes here.

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## The Fury

> Eh. *shrug* If ya got problems you should talk about them. My current woes and anger deal with various people on the forums at the moment (getting kicked out of a friends group, for example, and the realization that I shouldn't have even tried to be friends with certain people in the first place esp past a certain point) which makes them hard to talk about.


I mean, understandable. A lot of times, I post things here because the people that I'm afraid to share with probably will never read them. I just get a little nervous when the last one to post here is me.




> Fury, this thread is called the "personal woes and advice thread" so if your a human you post your woes here.


What if I'm a roughly human-shaped shambling mass?

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## Mith

> What if I'm a roughly human-shaped shambling mass?


That's a 1st approximation of a human.

Possessing worries and anxieties about life is another good indicator.

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## el minster

> I officially feel god-awful. Like, no appetite, don't want to do anything, randomly tearing up, that kind of god-awful. I have a session with a counselor scheduled for tomorrow morning but I just felt like I needed to, I don't know, put that out there the only way I can, which is (more or less) anonymously. The pressure is seriously grinding me down.


We're here to listen. Maybe you have allergies not that I'm a doctor or anything.

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## HalfTangible

This weekend, my mother went to the beach with my grandparents and I told her A) I have a job interview on Tuesday (this afternoon) and B) I don't want to go down there with her. I had to tell her this thrice before she stopped assuming I was going down regardless. Last night I found out she told my little brother that I was coming up Tuesday, and when I confronted her about it she said it would be "nice" for her parents to have all 4 grandkids there at the same time.

Here's the thing: I've been dealing with her and her parents on a near-constant basis for the entire year. Mammaw had to stay at our house for about 2 months and she's got dementia so we spent that entire period basically unable to sleep and catering to her every whim (Then she came back with no warning for a while), including but not limited to poop on the nightstand. We've been in quarantine for most of that time as well, so I've been dealing with Mom on a constant basis. She can't walk much so if I do go down there all I'm going to do is be her manservant for the entire time I'm there. She has other people there who can help her but I know from experience she'll make me do it.

I just want some time alone but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I get voluntold anyway

I had to hold myself back from cursing her out last night. I wanted to call her needy and say she was taking my help for granted. Instead I reminded her about the job interview, and she asked if it was online, ie if I could go down there and have it anyway, I said no and she backed off.

I really feel like I'm just going to cater to her every whim for the rest of my life. She insists that this isn't the case and that if I do manage to get a job somewhere that she'll be fine on her own. I don't believe her. Bro's never home, Dad is basically a divorcee in all but name at this point (on the other side of the planet to boot), and everyone else in our family is busy AF. The only reason I won't be doing her bidding for the rest of my days is that I'm going to outlive her (hopefully).

It's not even like "come be with your grandparents for a week" is an unreasonable request I'm just sick and tired of doing whatever she says and her _expecting me_ to put my life on hold indefinitely.

----------


## The Fury

> I officially feel god-awful. Like, no appetite, don't want to do anything, randomly tearing up, that kind of god-awful. I have a session with a counselor scheduled for tomorrow morning but I just felt like I needed to, I don't know, put that out there the only way I can, which is (more or less) anonymously. The pressure is seriously grinding me down.


Does it seem like external pressure? Do you feel like you know where it's coming from?

It's good that you're seeking help, and I hope counseling helps you get better.




> This weekend, my mother went to the beach with my grandparents and I told her A) I have a job interview on Tuesday (this afternoon) and B) I don't want to go down there with her. I had to tell her this thrice before she stopped assuming I was going down regardless. Last night I found out she told my little brother that I was coming up Tuesday, and when I confronted her about it she said it would be "nice" for her parents to have all 4 grandkids there at the same time.
> 
> Here's the thing: I've been dealing with her and her parents on a near-constant basis for the entire year. Mammaw had to stay at our house for about 2 months and she's got dementia so we spent that entire period basically unable to sleep and catering to her every whim (Then she came back with no warning for a while), including but not limited to poop on the nightstand. We've been in quarantine for most of that time as well, so I've been dealing with Mom on a constant basis. She can't walk much so if I do go down there all I'm going to do is be her manservant for the entire time I'm there. She has other people there who can help her but I know from experience she'll make me do it.
> 
> I just want some time alone but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I get voluntold anyway
> 
> I had to hold myself back from cursing her out last night. I wanted to call her needy and say she was taking my help for granted. Instead I reminded her about the job interview, and she asked if it was online, ie if I could go down there and have it anyway, I said no and she backed off.
> 
> I really feel like I'm just going to cater to her every whim for the rest of my life. She insists that this isn't the case and that if I do manage to get a job somewhere that she'll be fine on her own. I don't believe her. Bro's never home, Dad is basically a divorcee in all but name at this point (on the other side of the planet to boot), and everyone else in our family is busy AF. The only reason I won't be doing her bidding for the rest of my days is that I'm going to outlive her (hopefully).
> ...


That doesn't sound like you're getting fair treatment. I mean, you said that you had an interview that conflicted. She should have just let the matter drop.

----------


## The Fury

> Mainly internal, although the external pressures of working 2 jobs while being a full-time student aren't helping (which is a heck of a thing, considering I love my jobs and usually enjoy school, but now they just seem like added stressors).


OK. If you having someone to help you sort through it here is helpful, I'll do my best. Do you think taking a break from one of your jobs might help? Is there vacation time you can use?

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## The Fury

> I appreciate that but honestly I think I just needed to, I don't know, verbalize it. I'm not the kinda guy who likes to bare his soul to friends/family/partners so as far as people in my personal life are concerned I'm doing A-Okay and I just kinda needed to say somewhere that I'm not.


That's valid. I feel like I may have a bit of the opposite problem and feel the need to bare my soul a little too much. In any case, it's OK to not be doing great. If that makes any sense.

----------


## Grytorm

Mind going in dark dangerous directions. I had better things to say about the problem but I seem to have forgotten them. I blame being tired.

----------


## The Fury

> Mind going in dark dangerous directions. I had better things to say about the problem but I seem to have forgotten them. I blame being tired.


Have you been getting enough rest? We're here if you need to talk about it if you need. Even if the specifics are sort of vague in your mind right now. My PMs are open to you as well, if you like.

----------


## Grytorm

> Have you been getting enough rest? We're here if you need to talk about it if you need. Even if the specifics are sort of vague in your mind right now. My PMs are open to you as well, if you like.


In general I don't get enough sleep. Combination of not going lights out super early and for the last seeral months I have been waking up around 6:00. 

As for why I am depressed... I recognize that any reasons I give aren't necessarily the underlying issue. Because I can find a lot of things to criticise myself for and oftentimes I dwell on them thinking Iam a terrible person. But those in many ways are distractions. Especially if I go looking for advice that I know I am unlikely to follow through with. That is actually another thing that weighs on me. The feeling that I am imcapable of change and that I have wasted the greater amount of time in which I will have to improve myself (I am 26 which feels old because of all the years I have been depressed and disatisfied with my achievments). I am perhaps one of the few people who truly missess high school. I had hope then.

*Spoiler: Trigger Warning*
Show

The dark thoughts and stuff I mentioned are increasing thoughts of suicide. They have happened off and on since I tried to kill myself but a few days ago they felt worse. Right now I think I feel a little better, it feels more like an echo than an original thought. I'm very glad that I do not have any deadlines like the looming shadow of academic failure that lead to the aforementioned attempt.

I am unfortunately resistant to talking to anyone close to me. I can give reasons but I don't really know why. I can be rather stubborn like that.

I want to say more. More introspective dross on my state of mind. But I can't really think of anything. All that I can think of is empty attempts at articulating why I dont reach out and a piteous catalogue of my percieved failings. There's a new one. Using the predicted reassurance that the people around me don't see me the way I do to undermine my confidence in what positive traits I percieve myself to have.

----------


## The Fury

> In general I don't get enough sleep. Combination of not going lights out super early and for the last seeral months I have been waking up around 6:00. 
> 
> As for why I am depressed... I recognize that any reasons I give aren't necessarily the underlying issue. Because I can find a lot of things to criticise myself for and oftentimes I dwell on them thinking Iam a terrible person. But those in many ways are distractions. Especially if I go looking for advice that I know I am unlikely to follow through with. That is actually another thing that weighs on me. The feeling that I am imcapable of change and that I have wasted the greater amount of time in which I will have to improve myself (I am 26 which feels old because of all the years I have been depressed and disatisfied with my achievments). I am perhaps one of the few people who truly missess high school. I had hope then.


I've fallen into that trap a few times as well-- dwelling on my shortcomings and feeling like I'm a bad person. Even though I might feel that way about myself, I know that at least a few people don't think of me like that. It's very confusing, because they seem to see something in me that I can't. 

Could it be similar for you? For my own part I try to respect the opinions of people that see a better side to me, even though I don't really understand them. Maybe it's even been kind of helpful? It might be kind of helpful for you too? 

By the way, sorry. I'm not trying to make this about me, it's just that I can't think of a way to relate to this without bringing in my own personal experience. 

I think missing High School is more common than a lot of people assume. I don't personally, but I know people that do. What was it about High School that you miss? I mean, you mention that you had hope, but was there anything that made you feel that way? 




> *Spoiler: Trigger Warning*
> Show
> 
> The dark thoughts and stuff I mentioned are increasing thoughts of suicide. They have happened off and on since I tried to kill myself but a few days ago they felt worse. Right now I think I feel a little better, it feels more like an echo than an original thought. I'm very glad that I do not have any deadlines like the looming shadow of academic failure that lead to the aforementioned attempt.
> 
> I am unfortunately resistant to talking to anyone close to me. I can give reasons but I don't really know why. I can be rather stubborn like that.
> 
> I want to say more. More introspective dross on my state of mind. But I can't really think of anything. All that I can think of is empty attempts at articulating why I dont reach out and a piteous catalogue of my percieved failings. There's a new one. Using the predicted reassurance that the people around me don't see me the way I do to undermine my confidence in what positive traits I percieve myself to have.


*Spoiler: TW*
Show

Yeah, sometimes your mind can go to a pretty dark place. It's understandable that you'd be resistant to talking to people that you're close to about it. I know that I was when I was feeling suicidal. It's a very personal kind of darkness if that makes any sense. As for anything else you want to get out there... give it time. Let those thoughts form. I'll listen. And if things get really bad, you're in the US, right? The number for the National Suicide Prevention Line is 1-800-273-8255. Sometimes the sound of another voice telling you to hold on can really make a difference.


In the meantime, it seems like you work really hard. Maybe that's something that you feel like you need to do. Maybe it gives you some satisfaction. And that's OK. Just remember to make some time to take care of yourself too, OK?

----------


## The Fury

I've been feeling sort of strange lately, and I was hoping that I could get some outside thoughts on this.

I struggle a lot with getting close to people and the idea that I have value beyond what I can do for people. 

Occasionally I get little reminders that I am needed and wanted, which should make me feel better. It doesn't. Where I'm at right now... I kind of want to be available in situations where I might be useful, and to not exist at all every other time. That's kind of strange, right?

Also, I think isolation is turning me into someone I don't like. It's happened before and I'm scared that it will happen again.

----------


## el minster

Talk to people, friends, family, and just random people, as long as they're good people :)

----------


## The Fury

> Talk to people, friends, family, and just random people, as long as they're good people :)


That's probably the smart option. Right now though, I'm worried that no one wants to see me and I feel like I should just find a hole to die in. 

I'm ashamed to admit that I feel that way, because I know how unproductive that is.

----------


## Mith

> That's probably the smart option. Right now though, I'm worried that no one wants to see me and I feel like I should just find a hole to die in. 
> 
> I'm ashamed to admit that I feel that way, because I know how unproductive that is.


Could you plan for short calls/video chats with various people to keep connections going?  That's usually what I end up leaning on. It's long enough to get social interactions but short enough that you don't have your own thoughts spoiling a good time.

----------


## The Fury

> Could you plan for short calls/video chats with various people to keep connections going?  That's usually what I end up leaning on. It's long enough to get social interactions but short enough that you don't have your own thoughts spoiling a good time.


Short enough that my own thoughts won't spoil a good time? Sorry, I genuinely find this confusing. Maybe I misunderstood, but is that how it works for you? Like negativity goes away long enough that you can have a nice conversation with a friend?

It isn't really like that for me. Not where I'm at right now anyway. My brain is screaming at me to die and it won't shut up.

----------


## el minster

> Short enough that my own thoughts won't spoil a good time? Sorry, I genuinely find this confusing. Maybe I misunderstood, but is that how it works for you? Like negativity goes away long enough that you can have a nice conversation with a friend?
> 
> It isn't really like that for me. Not where I'm at right now anyway. My brain is screaming at me to die and it won't shut up.


He means that the joy from seeing them will last until your done and you'll still be happy even if youfeel awkward or whatever.

----------


## dehro

> Short enough that my own thoughts won't spoil a good time? Sorry, I genuinely find this confusing. Maybe I misunderstood, but is that how it works for you? Like negativity goes away long enough that you can have a nice conversation with a friend?
> 
> It isn't really like that for me. Not where I'm at right now anyway. My brain is screaming at me to die and it won't shut up.


I am going through a rough patch on several fronts, last but not least my job security. Today in particular was not a good day.
Today I videochatted for about 5 minutes with an elderly gentleman who owns a company where he is considering hiring me.

There is a good chance that I will not be able to accept any job offer he might make because of a non compete clause with my current employer (we will be looking into it), and there is also a strong resistance on my part because it would require me to move back to Italy, something I don't really fancy for a number of reasons which also have to do with the rough patches I mentioned before... so this is not something I am gung-ho about at all..

but the mere fact that this 80+ year old CEO took 5 minutes of his day to skype with me and put a face to a name, has definitely brought my spirits up a great deal compared to where my mind was but 3 hours ago.
Also, in preparation of the call I brushed my hair and put a shirt on (still in my shorts otherwise, because let's be real, working from home is awesome for a reason)... the point is, knowing that a conversation was coming up, especially with someone who came looking for me, has made me make an effort. I prepared and tried to look if not my best, my achievable best.

if you have people who, for whatever reason, look for you or manifest an interest in talking to you, treasure that and use it.. milk it for all it's worth.
Turn a whatsapp message in a video, jump on skype or see them in person, don't shut down conversations and make an effort to connect in equal measure at least to the effort they are making towards you.
at the very worst it won't help you a great deal, but you might just be helping them more than you know.. and it might actually rise your spirits the way interpersonal connections are meant to do.

----------


## Mith

> Short enough that my own thoughts won't spoil a good time? Sorry, I genuinely find this confusing. Maybe I misunderstood, but is that how it works for you? Like negativity goes away long enough that you can have a nice conversation with a friend?
> 
> It isn't really like that for me. Not where I'm at right now anyway. My brain is screaming at me to die and it won't shut up.


I think other people have rephrased my point.  However, I usually have found that in bad spells, having short visits mean that I can enjoy the conversation while it lasts, and the internal screaming stops for a bit.  However, if the conversation goes on for too long, negative thoughts start bleeding through what was a  good visit I was enjoying up until that point.

It isn't a permeant fix, but it is some rest and respite from the screaming.  At the very least, it is a stress relief, that if done regularly may help shift your general thought patterns.  I would look into the signs and coping mechanisms around rejection sensitivity and see if that gives you some insights into what may also help.  Unfortunately, my readings on the subject is that there is no "fix".  You just reach a tipping point where things do not hit quite as hard.

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## The Fury

> He means that the joy from seeing them will last until your done and you'll still be happy even if youfeel awkward or whatever.


Oh...




> I think other people have rephrased my point.  However, I usually have found that in bad spells, having short visits mean that I can enjoy the conversation while it lasts, and the internal screaming stops for a bit.  However, if the conversation goes on for too long, negative thoughts start bleeding through what was a  good visit I was enjoying up until that point.
> 
> It isn't a permeant fix, but it is some rest and respite from the screaming.  At the very least, it is a stress relief, that if done regularly may help shift your general thought patterns.  I would look into the signs and coping mechanisms around rejection sensitivity and see if that gives you some insights into what may also help.  Unfortunately, my readings on the subject is that there is no "fix".  You just reach a tipping point where things do not hit quite as hard.


I really wish that I knew more people that could just talk and ramble on. I'm not good at talking without getting depressive and stupid. I know this makes me hard to deal with, and I feel like most people I know are glad to get a break from me.

I did read a little about rejection sensitivity. Yeah... that sounds familiar. I don't have an official diagnosis for any kind of anxiety disorder, (no, I can't get one,) but I gather that it's something common for people with anxiety. Thankfully though, I'm really feeling bad anymore. I'm not really feeling good. I'm just sort of... _numb_ right now. I don't really feel anything, and maybe that's OK.

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## Mith

> Oh...
> 
> 
> 
> I really wish that I knew more people that could just talk and ramble on. I'm not good at talking without getting depressive and stupid. I know this makes me hard to deal with, and I feel like most people I know are glad to get a break from me.
> 
> I did read a little about rejection sensitivity. Yeah... that sounds familiar. I don't have an official diagnosis for any kind of anxiety disorder, (no, I can't get one,) but I gather that it's something common for people with anxiety. Thankfully though, I'm really feeling bad anymore. I'm not really feeling good. I'm just sort of... _numb_ right now. I don't really feel anything, and maybe that's OK.


If you worry about "pushing people away for rambling", have you ever done "facilitating" conversation?  By this I mean let the other person pitch the topic and engage that way.  Ideally, this can allow for you to weave in your own thoughts into the discussion without you having to worry about driving people away.

Plus you say you feel that people want a break from you.  Is that based on actual experience or what you feel is "self evident truth"? Because you cannot say that when you are far into a depressive state that you guarantee to hold an "objective" perspective.

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## The Fury

> If you worry about "pushing people away for rambling", have you ever done "facilitating" conversation?  By this I mean let the other person pitch the topic and engage that way.  Ideally, this can allow for you to weave in your own thoughts into the discussion without you having to worry about driving people away.
> 
> Plus you say you feel that people want a break from you.  Is that based on actual experience or what you feel is "self evident truth"? Because you cannot say that when you are far into a depressive state that you guarantee to hold an "objective" perspective.


I guess I didn't phrase my last post that well. Sorry about that. I'm not worried about pushing people away because I ramble, I'm worried that I'll push people away because I might say something creepy. My thought is that if I could talk with someone that _does_ ramble, maybe I won't be able to get a word in edgewise. Then I won't say anything... too dark. 

As for people needing a break from me... Maybe they haven't said so. Probably because it might come off as rude if they did. I know what I'm about though. I know that I can be a lot, I know that I'm draining to be around. I know that my friends only have so much energy to give people. Especially since I got to a point where I'm not really feeling anything, functionally I'm... OK.

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## el minster

> I guess I didn't phrase my last post that well. Sorry about that. I'm not worried about pushing people away because I ramble, I'm worried that I'll push people away because I might say something creepy. My thought is that if I could talk with someone that _does_ ramble, maybe I won't be able to get a word in edgewise. Then I won't say anything... too dark. 
> 
> As for people needing a break from me... Maybe they haven't said so. Probably because it might come off as rude if they did. I know what I'm about though. I know that I can be a lot, I know that I'm draining to be around. I know that my friends only have so much energy to give people. Especially since I got to a point where I'm not really feeling anything, functionally I'm... OK.


It's not that I don't ramble, it's that I don't  type quickly.

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## The Fury

> It's not that I don't ramble, it's that I don't  type quickly.


That's alright. Maybe I just need to have a conversation with someone that won't let me speak.

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## Asmotherion

> I guess I didn't phrase my last post that well. Sorry about that. I'm not worried about pushing people away because I ramble, I'm worried that I'll push people away because I might say something creepy. My thought is that if I could talk with someone that _does_ ramble, maybe I won't be able to get a word in edgewise. Then I won't say anything... too dark. 
> 
> As for people needing a break from me... Maybe they haven't said so. Probably because it might come off as rude if they did. I know what I'm about though. I know that I can be a lot, I know that I'm draining to be around. I know that my friends only have so much energy to give people. Especially since I got to a point where I'm not really feeling anything, functionally I'm... OK.


The above is a legit phobia, not sure how it's called though. 

Thing is, it manifests because you give too much value to the oppinions of others. 

"Creepy" is subjective. For example, I used to find it creepy when girls I dated would call me "baby" by the 3rd date. A friend of mine feels it shows affection, and feels flatered by it. 

You can't please everyone. Focus on doing what you feel like, not how you'll appeal to other people. Some people might not like you, and that's alright, because those that will like you, will like you for your personality.

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## The Fury

> The above is a legit phobia, not sure how it's called though. 
> 
> Thing is, it manifests because you give too much value to the oppinions of others. 
> 
> "Creepy" is subjective. For example, I used to find it creepy when girls I dated would call me "baby" by the 3rd date. A friend of mine feels it shows affection, and feels flatered by it. 
> 
> You can't please everyone. Focus on doing what you feel like, not how you'll appeal to other people. Some people might not like you, and that's alright, because those that will like you, will like you for your personality.


I've been talking around it for a bit, maaaybe I should clarify what I mean by "creepy."

*Spoiler: TW: suicide*
Show

I've been feeling suicidal, and I know that's a _really_ uncomfortable topic for a lot of people. It's understandable why people are uncomfortable with it, and I don't blame anyone for being upset about it. I've had thoughts and feeling on the subject that are... crass. The possibility of voicing these and horribly upsetting someone I care about makes me feel like garbage. 

I occasionally call The National Suicide Prevention Line when things get really bad, so I'm not _completely_ without support.


I be creeepy.

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## Asmotherion

> I've been talking around it for a bit, maaaybe I should clarify what I mean by "creepy."
> 
> *Spoiler: TW: suicide*
> Show
> 
> I've been feeling suicidal, and I know that's a _really_ uncomfortable topic for a lot of people. It's understandable why people are uncomfortable with it, and I don't blame anyone for being upset about it. I've had thoughts and feeling on the subject that are... crass. The possibility of voicing these and horribly upsetting someone I care about makes me feel like garbage. 
> 
> I occasionally call The National Suicide Prevention Line when things get really bad, so I'm not _completely_ without support.
> 
> ...


Nah, I don't find that creepy. To be perfectly honest with you, the only reason I sometimes avoid adressing suicide is that I fear something I may say may trigger a subconsious reaction that brings up depressive thoughts to the surface. 

*Spoiler*
Show

I'm kinda bipolar myself, so I may not have suicidal tendencies, but I sure know what depression feels like, that's like half my life XD

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## Mith

> I've been talking around it for a bit, maaaybe I should clarify what I mean by "creepy."
> 
> *Spoiler: TW: suicide*
> Show
> 
> I've been feeling suicidal, and I know that's a _really_ uncomfortable topic for a lot of people. It's understandable why people are uncomfortable with it, and I don't blame anyone for being upset about it. I've had thoughts and feeling on the subject that are... crass. The possibility of voicing these and horribly upsetting someone I care about makes me feel like garbage. 
> 
> I occasionally call The National Suicide Prevention Line when things get really bad, so I'm not _completely_ without support.
> 
> ...


*Spoiler: TW: suicide*
Show

I had figured that is what you meant.

However, I think it depends on who you have around you.  My close friend and I both struggle with a similar malaise and are able to prop each other up.  More in the vein of "I personally do not feel like I have value, but you seem to see something worth keeping around, so I'll lean on that instead."  I do not know your social circle if they are the sort of people that would be willing to offer such support, but that's a perspective I've used to get through my rough times.

Then again I at least have musings about being a net drain on everyone around me, and often think about being able to remove myself entirely from people's lives Marty McFly style at least once every three days.  So I may be less disturbed by such creepy thoughts than the average person.

I am glad to hear you have some support, but I do suggest looking at something that gives you time to rest.  Even if you feel you are not able to fully unpack anything. 
There is only so much any one person can handle, so taking some time to recharge while you figure out tools to help handle your own dark thoughts and potentially lighten the load.

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## The Fury

I finally got around to talking to some of my friends about... everything. It went about as well as I could have reasonably hoped. Not to say that it went great, because it didn't. I keep a lot of my suffering to myself, especially the really scary stuff, because I don't want to hurt anyone. I think RJ's kind of mad at me now. They said that by not being forward, and not trusting my friends to be there for me, I kind of _am_ hurting them. Going on to say that pushing friends away does neither them nor me any favors.

I don't think RJ will _stay_ mad at me. I think they're just hurt that I didn't trust them as much as I probably should have. I still feel bad about what happened.

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## dehro

> I finally got around to talking to some of my friends about... everything. It went about as well as I could have reasonably hoped. Not to say that it went great, because it didn't. I keep a lot of my suffering to myself, especially the really scary stuff, because I don't want to hurt anyone. I think RJ's kind of mad at me now. They said that by not being forward, and not trusting my friends to be there for me, I kind of _am_ hurting them. Going on to say that pushing friends away does neither them nor me any favors.
> 
> I don't think RJ will _stay_ mad at me. I think they're just hurt that I didn't trust them as much as I probably should have. I still feel bad about what happened.


You're focussing on the wrong part of what they are saying to you. Yes, they might be mad (I doubt they're seriously mad), but the important bit of that they have foster they can and want to be there for you. You gave friends and people who care for you. That should be your take away and focus, not that they're temporarily irritated and maybe a little annoyed that you didn't trust them

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## The Fury

> You're focussing on the wrong part of what they are saying to you. Yes, they might be mad (I doubt they're seriously mad), but the important bit of that they have foster they can and want to be there for you. You gave friends and people who care for you. That should be your take away and focus, not that they're temporarily irritated and maybe a little annoyed that you didn't trust them


You're not entirely wrong. Maybe it's more accurate to say that RJ is hurt and frustrated with me. It's not like RJ is the sort of person to hold a grudge, so it'll probably be fine. And it's correct to say that RJ and others love and support me.

The whole thing still bothers me though. If my friend asked me outright if they had earned my trust, I would say "yes." So if I were asked why I won't allow the people I love to be there for me... I wouldn't have an answer.

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## dehro

> You're not entirely wrong. Maybe it's more accurate to say that RJ is hurt and frustrated with me. It's not like RJ is the sort of person to hold a grudge, so it'll probably be fine. And it's correct to say that RJ and others love and support me.
> 
> The whole thing still bothers me though. If my friend asked me outright if they had earned my trust, I would say "yes." So if I were asked why I won't allow the people I love to be there for me... I wouldn't have an answer.


I know everything I need to do to keep on track with the things I am not doing, I know the solutions to most of my issues, both practical and emotional. I can't bring myself to implement them. If you ask me why, I am at much at a loss as you with your question.
Even as I sit here writing this in the hope of it helping you in some way, I know that it is as big a rationalisation of my own issues, and that by this token, it should help me too, but ultimately it won't
I don't know if we can help ourselves...
So let your friends help you and put your trust in them.

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## Grytorm

If I am feeling self pity should I talk about it.

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## The Fury

> If I am feeling self pity should I talk about it.


If you want to, if you think it'll help.

----------


## Jon_Dahl

Words of wisdom are appreciated.

I play as a floorball goalkeeper. It is a pretty "grounded" position and my stance is almost always quite low, as seen in this picture. Sometimes opposition players stand in front of me, with their back at me, to block my view (i.e. interference). So far this has meant that there is a man's butt in front of my face, which means that I have to peak behind his waist and butt to see the ball. 

Recently, I have played against a young woman, whose repertoire includes creating the aforementioned interference. There is something about having a female butt almost on my face during the games, and I have tried to analyze what it is my problem with this. I feel that men and women should be treated in the same way when we play (and everywhere, for that matter), and I am afraid that I might be sexually objectifying her if I looked at her butt from close range. That is why I try keep distance from her butt and position my face far from her butt, but this spoils my game. Nevertheless, I want to show that I am there to play the game and not look at her butt. On the other hand, my behavior is exactly the opposite from what I intend. I should behave in the same way with her butt almost on my face as I behave with a man's butt almost on my face. However, I feel uncomfortable in some undefined way when she does that and I have problems assessing my thoughts on the matter.

This is an example of blocking goalkeeper's sight, except that in her case, she is always facing the field and waiting:

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## Mith

> Words of wisdom are appreciated.
> 
> I play as a floorball goalkeeper. It is a pretty "grounded" position and my stance is almost always quite low, as seen in this picture. Sometimes opposition players stand in front of me, with their back at me, to block my view (i.e. interference). So far this has meant that there is a man's butt in front of my face, which means that I have to peak behind his waist and butt to see the ball. 
> 
> Recently, I have played against a young woman, whose repertoire includes creating the aforementioned interference. There is something about having a female butt almost on my face during the games, and I have tried to analyze what it is my problem with this. I feel that men and women should be treated in the same way when we play (and everywhere, for that matter), and I am afraid that I might be sexually objectifying her if I looked at her butt from close range. That is why I try keep distance from her butt and position my face far from her butt, but this spoils my game. Nevertheless, I want to show that I am there to play the game and not look at her butt. On the other hand, my behavior is exactly the opposite from what I intend. I should behave in the same way with her butt almost on my face as I behave with a man's butt almost on my face. However, I feel uncomfortable in some undefined way when she does that and I have problems assessing my thoughts on the matter.
> 
> This is an example of blocking goalkeeper's sight, except that in her case, she is always facing the field and waiting:


To me, if you are not making specific objectifying instances on this, it shouldn't be an issue.  However, I have never been on the receiving end of such instances, so take my attention with a grain of salt.  But I would imagine that genuinely indiscriminate interactions feel very different than objectifying attention.

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## el minster

That actually sounds like a very good tactic to distract you with

----------


## Kesnit

I just need to rant...

I understand the spoons concept. But there comes a point where you just have to suck it up and keep going. The buck has to stop with someone, and if you are that someone, it doesnt matter if you are tired, or stressed. You have to keep going because whatever it is has to be done. Out of spoons? Grab a fork.

Im exhausted and stressed. But you know what - Im still plugging along and doing what has to be done. Whining isnt going to get anything accomplished. Taking a break just means everything is put on hold to be done later, along with all the new things that came up while I was ignoring the old. 

Im not superhuman. I am just human. I push though, crying but still going. And it makes me so mad that others can dump everything in me,  knowing Ill take care of it because I have to. Because I dont subscribe to the out of spoons excuse. Because I take responsibility for my responsibilities.

----------


## Mith

> I just need to rant...
> 
> I understand the spoons concept. But there comes a point where you just have to suck it up and keep going. The buck has to stop with someone, and if you are that someone, it doesnt matter if you are tired, or stressed. You have to keep going because whatever it is has to be done. Out of spoons? Grab a fork.
> 
> Im exhausted and stressed. But you know what - Im still plugging along and doing what has to be done. Whining isnt going to get anything accomplished. Taking a break just means everything is put on hold to be done later, along with all the new things that came up while I was ignoring the old. 
> 
> Im not superhuman. I am just human. I push though, crying but still going. And it makes me so mad that others can dump everything in me,  knowing Ill take care of it because I have to. Because I dont subscribe to the out of spoons excuse. Because I take responsibility for my responsibilities.


I think the issue with "spoons" is that it got applied beyond it's function.

"Just push through it" doesn't work with executive dysfunction, or pain that means your limbs don't work quite right.

However, those who use "out of spoons" to avoid responsibilities are really applying the concept wrong, and thus weakening the strength of the concept.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> My life has officially become, like, every Buck Owens song ever, y'all.
> 
> *Spoiler: A whole lotta words*
> Show
> 
> I've been seeing this lady for the past couple of months-- we started dating back in May but we first met as classmates during our first semester at university and started really getting to know each other and spending time together around January. When my neck of the woods started going into lockdown due to the pandemic, she started inviting me around to her place, and I wound up spending every weekend for like a month and a half there, sitting on her couch and talking for hours about books and art and music and travel and politics and, you know, the whole shebang. We'd trade books, she'd give me one of hers and I'd give her one of mine, read them over the week, and then talk about them at her place. Turned out later that she'd been dropping hints throughout that time trying to get me to ask her out, which I eventually did.
> 
> I'm head over heels for her. Just for context, I'm 24 and in all my life-- all through high school and the early college years-- while I went on dates and saw people casually, I've never really found myself drawn to anybody or felt even a glimmer of being in love. So she's pretty special to me just by virtue of that, and it feels like we've shared some pretty special moments too.
> 
> ...


*Spoiler*
Show

Sounds like you should invite her for breakfast or lunch. Don't ambush her, just a "hey do you want to come over for lunch" would suffice. Especially if it has been okay to go several days between responses before now she might not think anything of it.

----------


## 2D8HP

> My life has officially become, like, every Buck Owens song ever, y'all.
> 
> *Spoiler: A whole lotta words*
> Show
> 
> I've been seeing this lady for the past couple of months-- we started dating back in May but we first met as classmates during our first semester at university and started really getting to know each other and spending time together around January. When my neck of the woods started going into lockdown due to the pandemic, she started inviting me around to her place, and I wound up spending every weekend for like a month and a half there, sitting on her couch and talking for hours about books and art and music and travel and politics and, you know, the whole shebang. We'd trade books, she'd give me one of hers and I'd give her one of mine, read them over the week, and then talk about them at her place. Turned out later that she'd been dropping hints throughout that time trying to get me to ask her out, which I eventually did.
> 
> I'm head over heels for her. Just for context, I'm 24 and in all my life-- all through high school and the early college years-- while I went on dates and saw people casually, I've never really found myself drawn to anybody or felt even a glimmer of being in love. So she's pretty special to me just by virtue of that, and it feels like we've shared some pretty special moments too.
> 
> ...



Oh jeez, if you're 24 I assume she is too, in my experience (and the statistics I've seen) women that young are less interested in being someone's exclusive girlfriend, in many ways her gal pal's will be far closer to her, and who she mostly wants to spend time with, with a series of guys she's friendly but not "serious" with. She's much more likely to more interested in having an exclusive romantic relationship when she's closer to 30 years old, unfortunately that's the age when men start to stray more because that's the way of the world. 
FWLIW I did get a permanent (with some hiccups) girlfriend when I was 24, but she was 29. *Spoiler: Some of my romantic history in my 20's*
Show




> [...]My first love and first real girlfriend was only 16/17 to my 19/20 and she was also 'spending time with' (cue Biz Markie) an "about 30 years old" man who gave her the Wire's 1977 "Pink Flag" album, and after I shared with her a bunch of albums she told me about it (and where she got it from) and we'd listen to it together. 
> 
> After my tearful breakup with "K" it was 1989, I was now 21 years old and going to see Helios Creed in San Francisco, on the way to which I saw "N", an older than me (not yet but closer to 30 than 20) very Punk girl who was also going to the gig who I befriended back when I was 18 when we were both worked the refreshment stand at a local club (the one Green Day started in), I was surprised to see her back in California, and she was a different first to me before she left California again. Some months later I visited her in Ottawa where we went to a record shop that had pretty pricey British imports including "Pink Flag" which I paid $20 Canadian dollars (about $15 U.S.) for, which was the most money I ever spent on any piece of media until the late '90's, but I finally had my own copy of Wire's 1977 "Pink Flag", and it's 21 (short) songs.
> 
> Ottawa was _weird,_  so clean it felt like a film set, we went to one Punk Rock show together (with an amazingly peaceful audience), crossed over to Francophone Hull, and visited a museum in Montreal. Montreal, despite being a French speaking city, felt more "American" somehow than Ottawa. The last day before I returned to returned to California she told me "Thank you for making me love you again", I sent her letters afterwards, she sent one back apologizing that she "Can't love you the same way" and I never saw her again, 
> 
> I still have "Pink Flag", I still treasure it, and listen to it a lot, one of my favorite songs on it is the beautiful "Fragile":♪♫♬
> _Tears fall in slivers, you broke my shades
> The light too bright, let me bury my heart
> ...




_
"'tis better to have loved and lost than never to loved at all"_ - *Someone long dead*, maybe Shakespeare?, 

I'd almost say no to that, lost love is pretty damn painful, but the songs you learn may make it worthwhile, even after it's gone. 

Any dates you go on with a woman who isn't_ at least_  in her very late 20's I'd advise regarding as practice and toughening up your heart. 

Try your best to learn to be a good friend and a good lover, but don't expect an exclusive or lasting relationship. 

I do know long lasting couples who first met and dated in their earlier 20's (and even teens), but they got back together years later after "playing the field", it's heartbreaking I know but expect no steady long lasting boyfriend/girlfriend relationship at your age.

Sorry.

----------


## Sir_Norbert

> Oh jeez, if you're 24 I assume she is too, in my experience (and the statistics I've seen) women that young are less interested in being someone's exclusive girlfriend, in many ways her gal pals will be far closer to her, and who she mostly wants to spend time with, with a series of guys she's friendly but not "serious" with. She's much more likely to more interested in having an exclusive romantic relationship when she's closer to 30 years old, unfortunately that's the age when men start to stray more because that's the way of the world.


Rather a broad generalisation, wouldn't you say?

My experience has been very different -- and while I accept that it may be atypical, I am sure that if more of us chimed in with our own experiences, they would add up to a wide variety of stories. I had my first serious relationship when I was 22 and she was 23; it lasted over a year and we were very serious and committed until it became clear that the distance was just too much of an obstacle. I'm now 37; my current partner is 28 and we've been together for four years, with ups and downs, but we've always managed to overcome them and we are still just as committed as ever.

----------


## 2D8HP

> Rather a broad generalisation, wouldn't you say?



Yes, _very_  broad, also (in reconsidering it) very local and more applies to San Francisco (where I'm at) than say rural Utah, but from what I glean @Comrade is collegiate so I expect more like San Francisco. 




> My experience has been very different[...]
> 
> [...]I'm now 37; my current partner is 28 and we've been together for four years, with ups and downs, but we've always managed to overcome them and we are still just as committed as ever.



That's wonderful! 
I wish you well.


*EDIT:*
In re-reconsidering, I see that _you_  were in your 30's when you started your relationship with your love, I don't recall any statistics but I'd be interested in how such relationships fare compared to those where both are younger, though I seem to recall that (both partners) young marriages fare best in places where they're the norm and divorce is seldom, but older first marriages fare better where divorce is more common (and unfortunately there's less statistics for unmarried long-term relationships, so guessing is involved).

----------


## HalfTangible

Spent the last day trying to back up my computer, it's failed like six times, can't even bloody do THIS **** right

Existing feels a waste of time and breath. I've been on a job hunt for 7, almost 8 months now and it feels like I'm just "rotting here with headphones on" (as dad so eloquently describes it; I ****ing hate it when he's home). What the hell did I go to college and get three damn degrees for if every job listed as "entry level" is gonna require like 4 years of experience? My mom can't walk so I can't bloody leave the state and even if I could every response I get to those apps is "no". Yeah, I know, global pandemic started as soon as I came out of college, of course jobs are scarce, but ffs _what am I supposed to do?!_

"Go back to school?"

_I went to college for ten ****ing years and it has done nothing for me why the **** would I go back again_

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Spent the last day trying to back up my computer, it's failed like six times, can't even bloody do THIS **** right
> 
> Existing feels a waste of time and breath. I've been on a job hunt for 7, almost 8 months now and it feels like I'm just "rotting here with headphones on" (as dad so eloquently describes it; I ****ing hate it when he's home). What the hell did I go to college and get three damn degrees for if every job listed as "entry level" is gonna require like 4 years of experience? My mom can't walk so I can't bloody leave the state and even if I could every response I get to those apps is "no". Yeah, I know, global pandemic started as soon as I came out of college, of course jobs are scarce, but ffs _what am I supposed to do?!_
> 
> "Go back to school?"
> 
> _I went to college for ten ****ing years and it has done nothing for me why the **** would I go back again_


I feel you. It took me a year to get a job after college, and two years after grad school. One of my best friends took two years to find a job after college and his degree is in mechanical engineering.

My suggestion is look for whatever awful seasonal work is available, amazon wearhouse or UPS or whatever. It sucks but you will have some money, and it will get people off your back. Then keep looking, eventually a job will show up. Other awful but always hiring jobs: Those storage places that line the highways always need minimum wage workers and no one thinks to apply there.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hello everyone. I feel like I need to vent how I feel about myself personally. I really need to become a better person and start actually like an adult. For anyone who may or may not know me, I've been on this forum since 2015 and my behavior is very dramatic most of the time and I always get into drama with mostly everybody in this forum and I feel very bad the way I treat other members in this forum. So I just need some advice to become a better person.  :Frown:

----------


## Tvtyrant

> Hello everyone. I feel like I need to vent how I feel about myself personally. I really need to become a better person and start actually like an adult. For anyone who may or may not know me, I've been on this forum since 2015 and my behavior is very dramatic most of the time and I always get into drama with mostly everybody in this forum and I feel very bad the way I treat other members in this forum. So I just need some advice to become a better person.


I think you are fine? You don't have to be everyone's cup of tea, I definitely am not. I'm close with my best friend and his fiancee, but neither of them like to debate and sometimes they give me looks like they bit down into an olive thinking it was a cherry. Just do your best to be considerate and you will be fine.

----------


## Grytorm

Ah hello again. Ive kind of wanted to post something for a little while but i havent had anything in particular to say and typically when I have thought of this thread I have been too low of a mood to babble.

Anyway. I get to be home alone for two nights which is scary because I have been often on in a dangerous frame of mind. Ive definitely felt depressed. The funny thing is is that I find a big aspect of my depression is the lack of interest thing. I cant really focus on most books. Actually that isnt the funny thing. The funny thing is is that certain books such as the Stormlight Archive series can really strongly grab my attention which does a lot to make me feel better. But I doubt That that is particulArily transferable to other books that I enjoy.

Also another odd thing is that I am a fast reader. But I have anxiety about not reading as swiftly as I once did. And so I manipulate people into reminding me of how fast I read.

Now for generic problem thoughts. The ideas that play a part in my depression remain the same. By ideas I mean the particular thoughts which I recognize as being as much a symptom as a contributing factor. Im 26 living at home. Never had a relationship or a real job. I can sy I have more than one friend roght now which is good. 

And I saw a job posting where I used to volunteer before the pandemic hit. I should apply but I havent yet due to a combination of procrastination and anxiety at seeing a gal/woman a few years younger than me who I had/have a crush on and enjoy talking to. But I actually got myself to ask her out maybe a year ago but she declined saying she didnt like dating people she knows from work. Also I later learned she is in a long distance relationship of some sort. Which anoyed me slightly that she didnt give that as the reason but I can guess reasons as why it is easier to not do that.

And there is another gal/woman who I want to try asking oit again several years since I spent much time with her. To some extent I rscognize that this would be a terrible desperate move. Good thing I havent done so. 

Then I feel like I have a self actualization problem. I have a lot of ideas and hobbies. But I never feel like I do enough with them or ever make it into something meaningful. I play way to many video games but am not particularily adapt at any of them. I have some interesting ideas for rpgs to run but I never find the impetus to flesh them out. I have dozens of books waiting to be read. Numerous notebooks filled with pointless ideas going around in cidcles. I like the idea of writing a fantasy novel but I fail to put in the effort and anyway I am not a good writer. Just. Even what I do in life feels pointless.

Also I often find myself disgusting.

Thank you.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I feel like social media is stressing out. There nothing good on social media anymore. It all negative and hurtful now. I need to vent out and take a break from it.

----------


## The Fury

I'm still kind of a jumble of incoherent thoughts. Some of these thoughts really bother me.

Does anyone else sometimes feel like you're trying your best? But it's just not good enough?

----------


## HalfTangible

> Does anyone else sometimes feel like you're trying your best? But it's just not good enough?


Yes.

_Constantly_

----------


## Jon_Dahl

I am heartbroken.

I am moving to another city which is faraway from here, and today will be the last time that I will play with group face-to-face. We have played together for 11 years and over 170 sessions.

I have a permanent full-time contract to work as a teacher in the "faraway" city, so I don't think I will ever see my friends again. We will continue playing in roll20, but it's not the same.

----------


## tomandtish

> I feel like social media is stressing out. There nothing good on social media anymore. It all negative and hurtful now. I need to vent out and take a break from it.


Nothing wrong with that. I try and have 3 days a week where I DON'T look at Twitter or other social media. Way to easy to start believing it represents the world as a whole instead of a relatively small but vocal percentage of it.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Nothing wrong with that. I try and have 3 days a week where I DON'T look at Twitter or other social media. Way to easy to start believing it represents the world as a whole instead of a relatively small but vocal percentage of it.


I should try your methods then. Thank you.  :Smile:

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## The Fury

I feel like my fear is taking over. It's not rational, I know but I can't quite seem to intellectualize it away. 

Nobody I know really thinks of me as a toxic person, but I feel like I am. I get so worried that I hurt people and it's hard to reconcile these feelings with a desire for companionship. 

On that note, I feel like there's a disconnect between how I assume people see me, and how they actually see me. My friends actually do think about me and they're usually glad when I show up. I keep thinking that I don't exist to them unless I'm in the room. I... don't know how to feel about that. Sometimes I feel like it might be better if I didn't exist. This is in spite of having friends that care.

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## Tvtyrant

> I feel like my fear is taking over. It's not rational, I know but I can't quite seem to intellectualize it away. 
> 
> Nobody I know really thinks of me as a toxic person, but I feel like I am. I get so worried that I hurt people and it's hard to reconcile these feelings with a desire for companionship. 
> 
> On that note, I feel like there's a disconnect between how I assume people see me, and how they actually see me. My friends actually do think about me and they're usually glad when I show up. I keep thinking that I don't exist to them unless I'm in the room. I... don't know how to feel about that. Sometimes I feel like it might be better if I didn't exist. This is in spite of having friends that care.


I don't know you personally, so I don't know your situation. But this seems like a common source of depression in people in their teens to early 20s before they come to grips with a tedious fact: You aren't a protagonist. You aren't that important. If you were a bother to people they would stop spending time with you, if you hurt people they would either call you out or cut you out. Unless you date a co-dependent person no one sighs wistfully while they wonder what you are doing, people might miss you for like a second or two out of their week. Everyone has a full life of their own, you factor into it as much as you put into it.

I think a large part of the issue is that school and then college force people together, so for me at least I took it for granted that people would be there when I wanted them. Finding out that you have to put consistent effort into friendship to keep them going is why most people hemorrhage their friend groups after college, it is too much work and we spend a lot of time with people we don't like that much already.

You aren't better off not existing in my opinion, you are much better off losing some ego. How much time do you spend thinking about any one friend who you don't have a crush on? That's how much time people spend thinking about you. That doesn't make you, or them, bad people. It just means you have your own lives.

TLDR: I think you might have a false sense of what friendship is like based on our media and forcing people together through most of their lives. They aren't as immediately important to you as you feel they should be so you feel bad about your emotional capacity, and they don't care about you to the degree you feel they should so you feel left out. The truth is you are all normal, the cultural perception of friendship is fake and most people have a period where they have to struggle through the disconnect. You and they aren't bad people or emotionally distant, the cultural standard is toxic and codependent. 

Always important service announcement: If you are not speaking with a professional now would be a good time to start.

----------


## The Fury

> I don't know you personally, so I don't know your situation. But this seems like a common source of depression in people in their teens to early 20s before they come to grips with a tedious fact: You aren't a protagonist. You aren't that important. If you were a bother to people they would stop spending time with you, if you hurt people they would either call you out or cut you out. Unless you date a co-dependent person no one sighs wistfully while they wonder what you are doing, people might miss you for like a second or two out of their week. Everyone has a full life of their own, you factor into it as much as you put into it.
> 
> I think a large part of the issue is that school and then college force people together, so for me at least I took it for granted that people would be there when I wanted them. Finding out that you have to put consistent effort into friendship to keep them going is why most people hemorrhage their friend groups after college, it is too much work and we spend a lot of time with people we don't like that much already.
> 
> You aren't better off not existing in my opinion, you are much better off losing some ego. How much time do you spend thinking about any one friend who you don't have a crush on? That's how much time people spend thinking about you. That doesn't make you, or them, bad people. It just means you have your own lives.
> 
> Always important service announcement: If you are not speaking with a professional now would be a good time to start.


Oh, believe me, I'm aware that I'm not that important. If anything I feel more like a supporting character than a protagonist. The thing that shocks me is that people I know actually think about me more than I thought they did.

I'm fully aware that people have their own lives, I'm just incredulous that they want me in them.

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## Tvtyrant

> Oh, believe me, I'm aware that I'm not that important. If anything I feel more like a supporting character than a protagonist. The thing that shocks me is that people I know actually think about me more than I thought they did.
> 
> I'm fully aware that people have their own lives, I'm just incredulous that they want me in them.


Right, but why? What makes you incredulous? What makes you think you are toxic?

----------


## The Fury

> Right, but why? What makes you incredulous? What makes you think you are toxic?


I guess I just feel surprised that people think about me at all. 

As for my toxicity... I think it's a fear more than a belief. The idea of hurting someone I care about is something that terrifies me. I've even done it before, and I still feel horrible about it. Maybe I didn't mean to, but that's immaterial because I still did it. I still have that lingering worry. What if I do it again?

----------


## Tvtyrant

> I guess I just feel surprised that people think about me at all. 
> 
> As for my toxicity... I think it's a fear more than a belief. The idea of hurting someone I care about is something that terrifies me. I've even done it before, and I still feel horrible about it. Maybe I didn't mean to, but that's immaterial because I still did it. I still have that lingering worry. What if I do it again?


I think that is literally what makes you a non-toxic person. Caring about how you effect others and trying not to hurt them is the opposite of someone who is toxic, IE a user. You aren't always going succeed, because people are fragile and life is harsh, but caring at all is doing better then a lot of people do.

I'm a middle child within a family with huge emotional issues, and my role for my life has been to absorb other's problems while they throw tantrums if their mind isn't read perfectly. Then I went to college and built my identity around getting old men and women to praise me for anticipating their ideas and regurgitating back to them what they want to hear. I learned a lot from the last few years, like caring about yourself is ok and that other people don't need all of your energy to survive.

Which brings me back to the ego thing. You are assigning yourself too much importance and not enough respect. People don't need you, the world gets along fine without you. If you hurt them they _will_ get over it. By the same token, they don't want you around because they _need_ something from you, but because they _like_ you. Stop thinking about how much damage you can do to them, because it isn't much. Think about how much happiness you can have with them, which is a lot.

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## Kesnit

Another rant...

My workplace has pretty much opened up with some restrictions. We are still able to work from home 1 day a week if our work schedule allows. Due to my schedule, I haven't been able to work from home since early July.

I looked at my calendar for yesterday and realized I finally had a day I could work from home. I set up everything I could to keep myself busy for the full day, then went to my boss to make sure there would not be a problem. Turns out the perspective new employee was coming in to meet my boss and see the office. He wanted everyone in the office to meet her. So I came in. 

The prospective employee did come in and I said hi to her. That was it. I drove my 90 minute round trip commute and stayed in the office all day in order to say "hi, nice to meet you." My boss did say he would be fine with me working from home in the afternoon, but that mostly defeats the purpose. I still would have done my full commute, and I would not have been able to leave until 2:00 anyway because I had set up a video conference for 1:30 and would not have been able to get home in time to do it.

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## Bartmanhomer

So anyway my childhood friend who I know him at my old childhood school is going through a very tough time at the moment. He's hearing voices and being very aggressive to his family. He has been to a psych ward with his behavior and he's out. So far he's still hearing voices and being very aggressive to his family and his medication isn't working. I don't know what to do at the moment and I'm very sad about my friend.  :Frown:

----------


## Grytorm

Dark thoughts ideation.

*Spoiler*
Show


Hello again. I feel confident in saying that a I am not feeling particularily well at the moment. I'm thinking about desth as simpler than becoming a functioning adult. Cataloguing my faults is fruitless except to say my depressiin hinges on percieved failures. And failures seem to be what matters because I've been considering the idea that everything in my life I am unhappy about is my fault. Well most things I am unhappy about. The lack of external stressors is good though because my only case of major self harm occurred in response to difficulty with completing my university degree. I think I had something else to say but I am tired.

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## The Fury

> Dark thoughts ideation.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> Hello again. I feel confident in saying that a I am not feeling particularily well at the moment. I'm thinking about desth as simpler than becoming a functioning adult. Cataloguing my faults is fruitless except to say my depressiin hinges on percieved failures. And failures seem to be what matters because I've been considering the idea that everything in my life I am unhappy about is my fault. Well most things I am unhappy about. The lack of external stressors is good though because my only case of major self harm occurred in response to difficulty with completing my university degree. I think I had something else to say but I am tired.


I've not been feeling great, so I probably won't be even nearly as helpful as I would like. For that I am sorry. I will try my best.

*Spoiler*
Show

It's very easy to see your failures, at least it's that way for me, an I suspect you too. Also, if you're like me, I imagine that it feels like your failures are so heavy and so numerous that it blinds you to the fact that you have good qualities too. So I guess my point is this-- maybe you can't see your better qualities right now. I assure you though, they are there and you do have them.

As for death feeling easier than becoming a functioning adult... that is a disturbing thought. No judgement of course. I've been there too. The number for the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is 1800-273-8255. I've had to call it before too, so just remember that help is out there.

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## Grytorm

> I've not been feeling great, so I probably won't be even nearly as helpful as I would like. For that I am sorry. I will try my best.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> It's very easy to see your failures, at least it's that way for me, an I suspect you too. Also, if you're like me, I imagine that it feels like your failures are so heavy and so numerous that it blinds you to the fact that you have good qualities too. So I guess my point is this-- maybe you can't see your better qualities right now. I assure you though, they are there and you do have them.
> 
> As for death feeling easier than becoming a functioning adult... that is a disturbing thought. No judgement of course. I've been there too. The number for the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is 1800-273-8255. I've had to call it before too, so just remember that help is out there.


*Spoiler: Spoiler*
Show

The insidious thing about my depression right now if that I can recognize my positive traits but I am having a hard time valuing them very highly. I feel like I am too undisciplined to ever get anything done. To actually do anything I can feel proud of takes commitment I don't have. And it isn't just things like being single and unemployed but things like how i have always liked the idea of writing fantasy but I just don't have to commitment needed to practice. Similarily I have some good ideas for rpg games I could run but I haven't made myself develop them beyond an outline and a couple of names for a CoC scenario. And honestly I am not very good at roleplaying which feels disheartening because I have invested so much time and energy to the hobby.

Thank you for reminding me of the hotline I will make use of it if necesarry. And I doubt I will do anything to hurt myself because the time that got me hospitalized was brought about because of an important university deadline I had utterly failed to complete and the reaching the point where I would have to admit my failings to my family.

Thank you for your time and I hope you start feeling better soon.

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## The Fury

I think I want to be semi-public about something that I've been feeling. 

It's difficult for me to be sure how much is grounded in reality, and how much is just fear taking over. I feel like I can't hold on to friends. I think I'm just in a spot where I meet people that are always on their way to somewhere else. 

It's not right for me to be upset or sad that people I love can escape to someplace better, on a certain level I am happy for them. All I can think about now though is how my friends will leave. When RJ moves to California for a game developer career and May goes off to Switzerland to be a concept artist, where does that leave me I guess. 

I don't want to come off as ungrateful for my internet friends. I love you all too. My friends haven't left yet, but it just feels like they will. Someday. Maybe in a year? Two years? Five years?

I guess what I'm feeling is I want to hold on to my friends, but I don't want to hold them down either.

----------


## Dezea

> I think I want to be semi-public about something that I've been feeling. 
> 
> It's difficult for me to be sure how much is grounded in reality, and how much is just fear taking over. I feel like I can't hold on to friends. I think I'm just in a spot where I meet people that are always on their way to somewhere else. 
> 
> It's not right for me to be upset or sad that people I love can escape to someplace better, on a certain level I am happy for them. All I can think about now though is how my friends will leave. When RJ moves to California for a game developer career and May goes off to Switzerland to be a concept artist, where does that leave me I guess. 
> 
> I don't want to come off as ungrateful for my internet friends. I love you all too. My friends haven't left yet, but it just feels like they will. Someday. Maybe in a year? Two years? Five years?
> 
> I guess what I'm feeling is I want to hold on to my friends, but I don't want to hold them down either.


Hello,

I had quite the same problem : I'm in my early 30th, and all my friends seems to just start going away, some having children and going into the country, some having huge professionnal opportunities, and so on.

I found easier in the end to accept that some friendship end - or, at least, don't stay as strong as I wished - and to focus instead on making new one. I might seem naive, but I definitely think that new friendship should be actively searched, even if I do agree that it get harder as you get older. 

I'm not sure how helpful this advice is, and I surely ain't helping with your friends going away, but I do think that a new friends is one of the most wonderful thing that can happen, and that we tend to forget that in this kind of thing, as much as with love, one shouldn't just wait for destiny to put the right people in front of him. If you start feeling lonely, maybe join some club ? (Well, D&D comes to mind, but as an aspiring painter, I met so many friends the last years painting)

Anyway, just don't forget that friends comes and go, that this is true for everyone and not you being rejected, and that as we grow older we should always try to find new people we wanna spend a little bit of our life with :)

----------


## Comrade

> I think I want to be semi-public about something that I've been feeling. 
> 
> It's difficult for me to be sure how much is grounded in reality, and how much is just fear taking over. I feel like I can't hold on to friends. I think I'm just in a spot where I meet people that are always on their way to somewhere else. 
> 
> It's not right for me to be upset or sad that people I love can escape to someplace better, on a certain level I am happy for them. All I can think about now though is how my friends will leave. When RJ moves to California for a game developer career and May goes off to Switzerland to be a concept artist, where does that leave me I guess. 
> 
> I don't want to come off as ungrateful for my internet friends. I love you all too. My friends haven't left yet, but it just feels like they will. Someday. Maybe in a year? Two years? Five years?
> 
> I guess what I'm feeling is I want to hold on to my friends, but I don't want to hold them down either.


Just because folks are moving on in life and going to new places doesn't mean your friendships with them have got to end. They might-- that's just the way things go; sometimes friends drift apart. But just as often friendships last and withstand the changes they go through. One of my oldest friends is a guy I hardly see any more because our lives have just changed that drastically-- but we still check in with one another every now and then, and when we're able to hang out, it's like no time has passed at all. Plus, these days it's easier than ever to stay connected. Phones, video chats, social media-- they may not be the same as hanging out in person but they mean friendships don't have to end just because of physical distance.

Again, sometimes friends just drift apart and that's the way it is. Not everybody sticks around-- which is why it's a good thing there's always new people to meet and form relationships with. I don't buy into the whole idea that you stop making friends once you reach a certain age. I have friendships going back years and years that mean a lot to me. I have friendships formed in the last year that mean a lot to me. While it's reasonable to want your friends to stay in your life, don't get to thinking that losing those friends means you'll wind up alone or something.

----------


## The Fury

I guess if the worst happens... don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened... right?

----------


## Lissou

I don't really need advice but I want to talk to someone, and I don't really have anyone else than this forum right now.

My husband was rushed in the hospital today. I think it's the 5th or 6th time this year. I suspect a septicemia based on his symptoms, which are the ones he's had before when he had a septicemia. He kept telling me not to call an ambulance, to just let him die so he could stop being a burden, but I called one anyway. He talked about how I betrayed his wishes, asking for the EMT to bring him back upstairs and that he was refusing treatment, but they said they couldn't do that.

Because of covid19, I can't visit him or check on him, and nobody there speaks English (it's been a huge problem on his previous visits, he doesn't understand them, they don't understand him) so I'm very worried. I'm worried they won't catch what's wrong and that he'll die. I'm worried he's there alone, dying, upset at me and himself, maybe feeling guilty. I can't be there with him or do anything to help him.

We're in France, and you may have been told that health care is free here. Surely enough, every EMT and doctor keeps telling us not to worry when he brings up costs, saying "this isn't the US". Yet we're already 20K euros in debt because he's not French, and despite being my husband he has no health care rights. Even health care meant for illegal immigrant doesn't apply to him, because he didn't come here illegally. We've been told before "If only he was here illegally!" and similar things. So he doesn't get the free health care for people who are here illegally, and he doesn't get the free health care for people who are here legally. I don't know what to do.
I'm on welfare, and he's on nothing as he can't even open a bank account here, let alone work or get any benefits whatsoever. Our rent is over the welfare we get, and we asked for rental help, but we need some papers signed by our landlord and we've asked months ago and never get an answer (I've asked again multiple times).
We've spent everything we'd tried saving the past ten years to maybe buy our own place someday. Soon we're going to be destitute. Despite this, I'm paying over a quarter of the welfare payment towards his medical debt, and it's still not enough. We keep getting messages from debt collectors. I don't know what else to do, but I certainly don't want him to die! He says it would solve everything because then I can just refuse his debt. If he's not allowed to use my free health care due to being married to me, they can't ask me to pay for his care regardless of us being married. They can't have it both ways. That's what he says, at least, I don't know if he's right, I don't care. I don't want him to die just because of money.

I'm at the end of my wits. I spend so much time taking care of him that I have missed interviews due to needing to rush him to the hospital, and he gets annoyed with me as it makes him feel like more of a burden. But I know if he was alone, he wouldn't call anyone and I could come home to find him dead.
I have some training starting again on Monday, it's 35 hours a week until November, in the hope that it may help me find a job in December. I'm terrified because there is no way he'll take care of himself, but if I stop going to the training they could make a case for me not seriously trying to get a job and I could lose my welfare.

I care about him topmost, all the rest is less important, but it won't disappear just because it's less important. I'm so stressed out and worried. Moving to France was supposed to help us, but in the US he had a good job and we were able to pay for health insurance, so even though it cost us tens of thousands of dollars a year, we were still much better off there than we are now. I know the situation in the US is bad right now and that we dodged a bullet but I worry we just jumped in the path of another.

Thanks everyone who read this, I needed to get everything off my chest. Thank you.

----------


## Mith

Lissou, I am sorry to hear what you and yours are going through.  I hope that there is some means that your efforts will lead to a break through.

*Spoiler: Thoughts (You do not need to read if you do not have to)*
Show

I know that you are not looking for advice on this issue, but I do know that things are different in the middle of a crisis vs the outside perspective.  I realise that you have probably already considered your options, but this is a case where second hand experience feels like it might apply.

I have had family that worked in government policy, so I do know that there can be people in goverment positions that recognise where people have fallen through the cracks at the boundary of policies.  However, to get people out of those situations, you need someone in the policy position to actually help you out.  Is there a government department that could do that in your case? This would be making the case of "your policy is failing here because everyone department is handing off the work to a different department, leaving us in a void (This is how I feel about the fact that there is an assumption that there should be no medical debt, but there very clearly is.  The policy is written with a presumption of some "other safety net will do the work").

The reason I mention this is because I do know that these sorts of appeal processes can bring results.  The people who work with these policies do tend to believe in the spirit of the policy, even if the letter imposes unintentional gaps.  Forcing them to see the actual issue, rather than the "presumed policy issue" may bear fruit.

Again, I am not saying this will be 100% successful, but it might be a way to get past some of the barriers you are facing.  Even if they can not give explicit support, they may be able to give better direction from the side of the policy management side.

----------


## sktarq

> I don't really need advice but I want to talk to someone...Moving to France was supposed to help us....Thanks everyone who read this, I needed to get everything off my chest. Thank you.


***BIG HUGS***
*tea* 
*cookies*
*tickets to unicorn petting zoo (with two complimentary clover tiramisu)*

Okay glad you got to scream that out a bit. I'm going to guess you have a social case worker and all that well handled as you seem the organized sort on this site at least. 

But my real thing....this is going to be touchy...if he is asking to reuse medical care, sees himself as a burden, etc .... That's suicidal thinking....besides the fact that he is being more of a burden by not taking care of himself (forcing you to and thus miss interviews etc) you can't expect him to see that...not now...now both of you just need help with that...look at suicide hotlines or help groups...see if any speak english locally or look up internet based ones  for VOIP/skype/zoom type interaction. And poke around for support for yourself. You may have to let his doctors know (painful and may feel like another betrayal), only you can make that choice. 

*Spoiler: other thoughts*
Show


That is a huge burden you are shouldering right now. And it is also a huge amount of emotional labour involved. Just getting through the day may be blinding you to larger options...that's not a criticism its just an issue with trench level perspective. So please look for any social worker or lawyer you can...or eight...that may have the distance, perspective, and knowledge of the system to help you....

And guessing things are pretty bad with all this stress. Remember to take care of yourself and your bond as well...don't forget the 2 Euro wine, tarted up open faced cheese sandwiches as a picnic somewhere you both like, read to him, 
Put on a nice dress or whatever makes you feel good about yourself and find a riverbank or orchard to frolic and feel happy for a few minutes a day. 


Have you tried any US routes of help? Consulate? Him possibly able to work remotely and use that to transfer back to Oregon or wherever and get expensive if functional medical care? (Which would e ironic but take what you can get)....


Best of luck, to you both.

----------


## Lissou

> Lissou, I am sorry to hear what you and yours are going through.  I hope that there is some means that your efforts will lead to a break through.


Thanks! And thanks for the advice too. I didn't mean to say that I actively don't want advice, just that I mainly wanted to vent. But you're right and I'll look into it.




> ***BIG HUGS***
> *tea* 
> *cookies*
> *tickets to unicorn petting zoo (with two complimentary clover tiramisu)*


Woot, unicorn pets and tiramisu! Tea and cookies are nice, but unicorns and tiramisus are the big guns!

Thanks for your advice as well. As for your double spoiler, yes, I've been thinking about it. We both need emotional support outside of our relationship, and being in a foreign country with a foreign language the isolation is making that worse for him. I will talk with him and we can look into options to help with that.

To everyone: I have news that he's much better, and I am less stressed out as well, but I'll look into long term management so it's not one crisis after the other. For now, I'll relax a bit. Then I'll deal with serious, anxiety-inducing things that will make things better overall.

----------


## sktarq

> To everyone: I have news that he's much better, and I am less stressed out as well, but I'll look into long term management so it's not one crisis after the other. For now, I'll relax a bit. Then I'll deal with serious, anxiety-inducing things that will make things better overall.


Very very glad to hear it. 
Hope a day off or three is stable and fruitful (and perhaps even filled with ice-cream and sprinkles). 
If you need to scream/vent/etc you have ears (eyes on monitors? cortex activity? thoughts...getting metaphysical) available here.

----------


## Grytorm

Hello again. Still depressed but not as focused on the same dangerous thoughts. Tonight what I am focused on is how I am 26 and have at best been on two dates and more realistically maybe one. And so I am stuck thinking about frustration and loneliness. I can predict typical advice to focus on building friendships and trying to find more social opportunities. Which is more difficult these days. So next someone would probably bring up online dating as something to experiment with. Its all good advice.

Right now what I am more wondering about is how to safely navigate my own mental state. Just that the few times I have tried asking women out I handle the inevitable rejection vie extreme self loathing. Once that is past I tend towards temporary toxic resentment. Thankfully that state is eventually forgotten. More what the problem is that when depressed I end up defaulting to self loathing and I dislike my thoughts on the matter. I regard myself as hideous, my presence as odious, and I make certain to remind myself hoping to find happiness with someone else is a vile thing. And that is stressful.

A few other thoughts. I hate being 26 it makes me feel creepy and I feel no real hope for the future. Part of the feeling creepy thing probably comes about because I live at home and haven't taken on many real responsibilities. So the idea of dating someone older with actual responsibilities would make me feel juvenile. And developing a crush on someone younger can range from acceptable to uncomfortable. Also their is the annoyance of developing crushes quickly which taints normal social interaction and oftentimes leads to self loathing for my behavior. Self loathing comes about when I work up the nerve to ask someone out and am rejected or I learn that they are already in a relationship and I regard myself as disgusting for having a crush.

Their is some more stuff I was thinking of saying but it was a different topic and more depressing and I am tired. So I didn't say it.

----------


## dehro

I'm 42..
I think that two real dates at 26 is pretty much accurate to my story as well.
I came out of my shell (and discovered online dating sites) about a year later, when my circumstances changed dramatically... But it could just as well have been another few years later
You'll be ok. Trust me

----------


## Grytorm

Wouldn't call it two real dates. One more or less real date and one me misinterpreting something as a date due to not socializing enough. That did work out well though. Now on to depression stuff.

*Spoiler: Trigger Warning: Suicide*
Show

What I want to talk about. Suicidal Ideation. In general I have found that I experience this in a few different ways. There is the awareness of opportunity. If I am home alone or I run into certain things the potential for death occurs to me. This is annoying. Then their is the also troubling psuedo planning. Nothing concrete just brief reflections on how I would like to die. This I think is more worrying in principle but it never really goes anywhere. A couple of seconds of thought before I put it out of my mind. Lastly there are disturbing thoughts related to self harm. I don't self harm other than inflicting modest pain on myself. Biting my hand. Hitting my leg. But I do not make any lasting injury. But I sometimes have intrusive ideas of doing fairly terrible things to myself as either an atonement for being awful or as some twisted way of fixing myself. Thankfully I don't think anything will come from these last thoughts. But they are still scary.


What else. I know I had something else to say but I can't think of it. Ah I remember now. I was briefly recalling the worst stuff I have done to other people. It isn't too terrible in the grand scheme of things. But when I got called out on my poor behavior I felt like a shell for a week. And more broadly I have been thinking about my feelings of isolation. Friends who were never really there. Bridges burnt due to self loathing. My brain wandered onto the topic of social cues but that can be talked of later. 

Whatever.

----------


## sktarq

> *Spoiler: Trigger Warning: Suicide*
> Show
> 
> What I want to talk about. Suicidal Ideation. In general I have found that I experience this in a few different ways. There is the awareness of opportunity. If I am home alone or I run into certain things the potential for death occurs to me. This is annoying. Then their is the also troubling psuedo planning. Nothing concrete just brief reflections on how I would like to die. This I think is more worrying in principle but it never really goes anywhere. A couple of seconds of thought before I put it out of my mind. Lastly there are disturbing thoughts related to self harm. I don't self harm other than inflicting modest pain on myself. Biting my hand. Hitting my leg. But I do not make any lasting injury. But I sometimes have intrusive ideas of doing fairly terrible things to myself as either an atonement for being awful or as some twisted way of fixing myself. Thankfully I don't think anything will come from these last thoughts. But they are still scary.


Yeah get that
*Spoiler: Similar*
Show


With the exception of the self harm part. I never bother to actually doing so. But also often don't bother avoiding pain that other people are trying to inflict on me, especially if it some intimidation baloney. I just absorb the pain, ignore it and move on. 

but the rest? I get it...does it come and go in terms of frequency/intensity? 
also just the mind shot of "I kinda hope some giant truck runs me down crossing the street today" that has to get put in the mental oubliette and processed during a day off.

----------


## dehro

> Yeah get that
> *Spoiler: Similar*
> Show
> 
> 
> With the exception of the self harm part. I never bother to actually doing so. But also often don't bother avoiding pain that other people are trying to inflict on me, especially if it some intimidation baloney. I just absorb the pain, ignore it and move on. 
> 
> but the rest? I get it...does it come and go in terms of frequency/intensity? 
> also just the mind shot of "I kinda hope some giant truck runs me down crossing the street today" that has to get put in the mental oubliette and processed during a day off.


*Spoiler: same, the attractive nature of a simple solution*
Show


I don't do the self harm thing, but the occasional thought, as you drive down the highway that swerving into another lane would be the quickest way to solve a couple of issues, does come to mind, unbidden,... Sometimes it off the blue, sometimes during stressful times.. But my car has airbags, so...
Very rarely, I've given those thoughts serious consideration.. Usually I just let them wash over me and put up some suitably sad song on the radio.

----------


## Razade

> *Spoiler: same, the attractive nature of a simple solution*
> Show
> 
> 
> I don't do the self harm thing, but the occasional thought, as you drive down the highway that swerving into another lane would be the quickest way to solve a couple of issues, does come to mind, unbidden,... Sometimes it off the blue, sometimes during stressful times.. But my car has airbags, so...
> Very rarely, I've given those thoughts serious consideration.. Usually I just let them wash over me and put up some suitably sad song on the radio.


*Spoiler*
Show

Intrusive thoughts are a thing and we all get them to a greater or lesser extent. Not saying it's not an indication of something else going on but especially if you've not exhibited any other suicidal or self harm tendencies it could be from something else or just the normal random intrusive thought.

----------


## dehro

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> Intrusive thoughts are a thing and we all get them to a greater or lesser extent. Not saying it's not an indication of something else going on but especially if you've not exhibited any other suicidal or self harm tendencies it could be from something else or just the normal random intrusive thought.


I have been cycling through a pattern of self-destructive choices and behaviours that routinely mess up things i try to build in my life.. For years now.. If not decades. Whether it's laziness, lack of an ability to commit even to things that would improve my life or at least keep it stable, an active tendency to recognize something good and subconsciously engage in behaviours that break that something down, I don't know, nor do I know if it's a sign of a deeper issue that might come with a label or a recognised therapy... One way I work against myself is by stopping myself from seeking the help that might actually break the cycle... And i guess that's both part and a symptom of the problem.
I believe that those intrusive thoughts, that on rare occasions have been something more than simple morbidity, come to me in this context.
I also realise that this probably sounds like a very lucid analysis of my situation and that it contains the very elements that might bring a solution. The issue is that i can't bring myself to enact or reach out to those elements.

I share this mostly to see if it resonates with others and makes sense, in the hope it might bring at least to them, if not to me, some elements to drive a change or offer a clear perspective on something they might be feeling.

I would welcome any thoughts about the above, which might help me in turn. After all, as lucid as I might be, or think I am, I'm still operating from within my own mind and my own probably flawed perceptions.

----------


## darkdragoon

I hit the big 40 this summer and I'm still trying to figure stuff out.   And that's without the added uncertainty of the pandemic.

----------


## HalfTangible

Every decision I make feels like the wrong one.

Feel like I spent a decade in schooling for nothing.

I brush off and piss off my friends and family without meaning to, including people who are already hurting

I'm _still_ angry at a former friend for **** that happened a year ago (although to be fair he kept being a bully well into June and only stopped because he's been cut out of my life, so...)

I feel stuck and worthless, just waiting to die and _I want death_...

Every time I think I'm okay I'm about to fall apart all over again.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Society has stressed me out because of Covid-19 and all the other craziness that happening in the world. Sometimes I wonder why am I here in this world?  :Frown:

----------


## Wizard_Lizard

Kind of ranty, I need to write it somewhere I think. Sort of to get things sorted out.

Great. I've had my first irl big drama come up and damn it feels like ****. 
I.. don't know. I probably won't be posting for a while I don't think. I've just had my two closest friends.. stop being friends with me because of complicated reasons, but mostly one of them has a boyfriend who lied and said that I said stuff to them. Like some really horrible stuff, and then faked screenshots to "prove" that I said said stuff. 

And I don't know any more. Because it feels like I really, really have no one at this point. Like.. Last year I had a group of friends who were alright. _they_ started hanging out with some homophobic and transphobic people, which made me, who is bi and enby, kind of rather uncomfortable. I became friends with a different friend group and uh.. they were cool! and it was nice! and um. There were three of them. One of whom liked me, so we dated, and that fell apart because coronavirus, and um They said we'd still be friends, insisted on that, in fact. And that didn't work out. I guess my presence made them uncomfortable and I was awkward and whatever. Note, these were the only three people I've really *came out* to as nonbinary. So they left and um, haven't really spoken to me. That was months ago, I'm kind of over that.
So. that's part one.
During this time of getting over it, I rather recently maybe sorta developed feelings for friend #3, but like, considering how badly that went I kept 'em wayy locked up. This will be relevant later.
Part 2 happened more recently. So. Friend #2, who has been really nice to me and whatever has a boyfriend. i have met said boyfriend and we got along well. I invited him to my house for scones one time. I get a screenshot of a message from said boyfriend saying that he wanted to, and I quote "Kill me and throw my body in a lake". So that was.. not fun. I did a bit of research, asked around, and he'd been sending fake screenshots of me saying horrible stuff to him, like, really horrible stuff. He'd also been lying to his girlfriend about said stuff. (Mostly because he thinks I like his girlfriend and is paranoid I think? Although that makes very little sense as he knows who I like.. and spoiler alert.. it's a dude)
And so I'm in a horrible mess because I'm stressed and can't sleep very well and that isn't helping. So I talk to Friend #2 about it, and um, they don't believe me. Which sucks, but is fair, as it's my word versus their boyfriend's word. I bring up a screenshot of the final thing I told them "Happy Birthday". No help at all. They say that isn't what they want. And damn I'm now in a horrible situation. Also during this whole time, me and Friend #3 have been hanging out a bunch and things seem cool. Which brings me on to today. Today sucked. Completely. I. Don't. Have. Enough. Words. To. Describe. That. 
Friend #2 messages me, saying that they don't think we should be friends because this whole stupid situation is stressing them out. I say that this is fair, and maybe we can be friends when it passes but I won't put too much hope in that, considering how well that worked last time. And Argh. My stupid, sleep deprived brain gets me to message their boyfriend. Who I haven't spoken to since their birthday, when I said; "Happy Birthday". This goes as well as one would expect. He says that I had told stuff to his girlfriend about him. I did no such thing. I call him out on his bull****, and then he goes on on and says that it's _my_ fault that he's stressed, and that she never actually wanted to be my friend and that I tried to "steal his girl" to which I reply "You know who I like, and it's a dude!"
Of course he says I'm lying and that I'm "Such a bad liar" He says that Friend #2 comes to him crying all the time about stuff I say, which I find hard to believe because I really, really haven't said anything. AND THEN he says "no one wants to talk to you or be your friend." And at this point I'm crying, I've been crying for a while, super stressed, brain hurting, etc. And this HURTS. I mention the fake screenshots and the lying, he makes no move to deny it. I bring this to Friend#2 because really I don't know where else to go at this point, and here is the closest friend I've had for a while. And I get told not to bring my petty squabbles to her, she's tired and stressed and I'm not helping. And that I'm manipulating her. I'm thinking _This is not my Fault I don't know what to do!_. So I bring it to Friend#3. Try to explain everything and. Immediately off the bat get told that friend#3 does not want to be friends any more, because they feel emotionally drained and used. (I had been talking to them about this because up till that point it didn't feel appropriate to be talking to Friend#2 about their boyfriend). And at this point I'm hurting. A lot. I've lost two friends in one day. Friend#3 does say that they might be friendly in a couple of months, last time something like that was said.. was with friend#1 and that.. did not work out.

And throughout this, I've been working my way through the whole gender thing. These were the three people I felt most supported by and safe. And now I don't have anywhere to really go.. I was going to hang out with Friend#3 on Thursday, nope, that ain't happening any more. Anyway I've got Therapy in two weeks so this is something to talk about I guess. 
Sorry for the rant. I just feel like I need to put this _somewhere._
I just.. don't know what to do.
EDIT: And this is on top of the whole COVID thing, _and_ it's getting to the end of my school year and I've got a bunch of tests and exams are getting closer and everything feels so overwhelming and I can't concentrate very well. I just thought I had things sorted for a couple of weeks. I had a dnd group. I was having fun. I was getting therapy. I was feeling.. I dunno.. better. And now _this_.

----------


## sktarq

> Every decision I make feels like the wrong one.........
> Every time I think I'm okay I'm about to fall apart all over again.


Do you have someone to talk to about it? like a close friend or a therapist etc? 
PM's open if you need it. 


As for the Arcane Archosaur (okay not exactly but I like the alliteration)...Deep Breaths. Journal, You mention having a therapist...make an extra appointment....maybe FOCUS on all those academic pressures to fill your time and thoughts for now...so you can hit one job at a time. Make big jobs into little jobs. Do a little job and call that a success because even small steps forward help and you'll lapping those people still on the couch....also...sorry sounds like a you'll be glad when the calander can be flipped and those societal mental reset occurs.

----------


## Wizard_Lizard

> Do you have someone to talk to about it? like a close friend or a therapist etc? 
> PM's open if you need it. 
> 
> 
> As for the Arcane Archosaur (okay not exactly but I like the alliteration)...Deep Breaths. Journal, You mention having a therapist...make an extra appointment....maybe FOCUS on all those academic pressures to fill your time and thoughts for now...so you can hit one job at a time. Make big jobs into little jobs. Do a little job and call that a success because even small steps forward help and you'll lapping those people still on the couch....also...sorry sounds like a you'll be glad when the calander can be flipped and those societal mental reset occurs.


Roger that. Feeling a bit better now. Breathing is good, don't have a journal, but that's an idea. Am focusing on academics. Thank you! I'm currently coping by listening to music and reading, and that's helping. Yea, really can't wait for the year to be over but, hey, things _should_ get better eventually?

----------


## HalfTangible

> Do you have someone to talk to about it? like a close friend or a therapist etc? 
> PM's open if you need it.


Yeah I've got a close friend, and a few other people who've offered DMs at various points, but I don't like dumping this kinda stuff on them.

I appreciate that.

----------


## dehro

> Yeah I've got a close friend, and a few other people who've offered DMs at various points, but I don't like dumping this kinda stuff on them.
> 
> I appreciate that.


Don't make that mistake. You need help. They see this and want to help. Take it.
Either dumping this stuff on them will help you and help them help you, or they will decide that they can't deal with it and take a step back. If you don't take the help when offered to you, on one hand you're stuck without the help, on the other hand, you risk alienating those who offer to help if you insist on putting up a barrier between you and them.

----------


## Kesnit

I work in a field known for burnout and a need for self-care. I've kept myself going, but there have been many times when I wished something would happen that would give me enough time away from work to focus on myself. (I had a week long vacation earlier this year, but just after I came back, something went downhill at work and I took the brunt of the blame, even though it wasn't entirely my fault.) 

About 3 weeks ago, one of my co-workers announced he had an alcohol problem and was checking himself into rehab. I have no doubt that his drinking was (in his words) out of control and wish him the best. But I have realized that there is a part of me that is jealous. Jealous because he is getting the opportunity I wished for - a chance to step back.

----------


## Jon_Dahl

I am an English teacher, and I wrote a message to the guardian of one of my pupils. I was so exhausted and stressed out that I forgot that the noun phrase 'the English language' has a definite article. Instead, I didn't use any article.

What will the guardian think of me now?

----------


## Chen

> I am an English teacher, and I wrote a message to the guardian of one of my pupils. I was so exhausted and stressed out that I forgot that the noun phrase 'the English language' has a definite article. Instead, I didn't use any article.
> 
> What will the guardian think of me now?


I would think it would depend on the sentence. May come off as a bit off. If english isnt their first language they may not notice at all. In any case a minor error like that could easily happen to anyone and I very much anyone would judge you too harshly for it.

----------


## Spore

If people from my work environment are any indication it could easily be brushed away. We regularly get sent memos with typos, even missing words. And these people sit in an office, typing stuff for a living.

----------


## 2D8HP

So on the morning of September 4th it looked like I had at least an 80% chance of having lung cancer, my response was to start reading "Lord Jim" by Joseph Conrad and listen to Pere Ubu songs far more than usual, and my wife was very angry.

Since then I've had a spinal tap and a lung biopsy (and more blood tests than I can count) and the news today is it now looks like I have a rare "cryptoccal fungal infection" in my lungs instead which typically comes from exposure to decaying wood and soil and is relatively common in the environment, most healthy folks don't get effected by it, usually only folks with weakened immune systems (H.I.V. patients) get infected, still a mystery as to how I got it. Thankfully my wife got sweet again and told me: "Never been so relieved you have a potentially deadly fungal infection" (instead of cancer). 
To treat it will take at least six months of drugs that may damage my liver, so no more alcohol or Tylenol for me (I'll have to get a blood test every two months to see if my liver is going bad, plus "tell us if you notice yourself turning yellow"). 
I had two beers in 2020, and it looks like there won't be anymore for the rest of the year and longer, so basically an extended [give up something in March thing I do] for me.

Oh, and speaking of Spinal Tap here's "Stonehenge":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zg5Ovdu6bOE

----------


## Grytorm

Ah hello again. A couple of lines of thought.

First just contemplating self destructive behavior. The idea of burning maybe six years worth of notebooks and sixteen years worth of collecting RPG rulebooks is floating through my head. Not the best idea I have ever had. But not the worst impulse.

The second line of thought is how the idea of people wanting to spend time with me is weird. Just multiple people recently have said or done things that indicates they want me around and I find it something. One person apparently usually skips a thursday night game group thing if she hears from her husband that I'm not going to be there. And the other person is a woman I have/had a crush on at the animal shelter I volunteer at. She is or was one of the volunteer coordinators and I talked to her a lot after shifts, we both enjoy RPGs. And last time I saw her she said something about not doing the same job anymore but that she will be volunteering at the shelter on certain days and that I might enjoy talking to a new staff member. It just weirds me out.

Another thing sort of connected to the second thing. Just how I don't really know how to navigate crushes/attraction especially after rejection. Its complicated because I don't want to be a creepy jerk, and I tend to overreact to criticism and easily default to self loathing. Between those two issues I often find myself feeling awful about myself and I don't know how to find a healthy mental state. And add in other factors such as a desire to maintain genial relationships, which is the main one that can be adequately explained is a short phrase. And I am tired. And feel like the next complicating factor is less positive. So I will leave this here.

----------


## Florian

> "Never been so relieved you have a potentially deadly fungal infection" (instead of cancer).


Best of luck, old man. Unlike cancer, there's a good chance that you can come out of this without serious side effects.

----------


## dehro

Eh.. That resonates..i remember the days of anxiety between the biopsy and finding out that what I have is sarcoidosis instead of lymphoma...
Quite the emotional rollercoaster

----------


## sktarq

> "Never been so relieved you have a potentially deadly fungal infection" (instead of cancer).


well, glad it isn't cancer.....but ouch that still sucks. Best of luck on the fungi and the hospital/employment/insurance bureaucracy to come.  

Perhaps a counter war on Fungi Kingdom is in order? 
Eat lots of mushrooms, marmite/vegemite (if you can't have the beer parts....eat the rest), blue cheese and the like? 

And yadda yadda extra care in hospitals because 2020...you know the drill.

----------


## Mith

> So on the morning of September 4th it looked like I had at least an 80% chance of having lung cancer, my response was to start reading "Lord Jim" by Joseph Conrad and listen to Pere Ubu songs far more than usual, and my wife was very angry.
> 
> Since then I've had a spinal tap and a lung biopsy (and more blood tests than I can count) and the news today is it now looks like I have a rare "cryptoccal fungal infection" in my lungs instead which typically comes from exposure to decaying wood and soil and is relatively common in the environment, most healthy folks don't get effected by it, usually only folks with weakened immune systems (H.I.V. patients) get infected, still a mystery as to how I got it. Thankfully my wife got sweet again and told me: "Never been so relieved you have a potentially deadly fungal infection" (instead of cancer). 
> To treat it will take at least six months of drugs that may damage my liver, so no more alcohol or Tylenol for me (I'll have to get a blood test every two months to see if my liver is going bad, plus "tell us if you notice yourself turning yellow"). 
> I had two beers in 2020, and it looks like there won't be anymore for the rest of the year and longer, so basically an extended [give up something in March thing I do] for me.
> 
> Oh, and speaking of Spinal Tap here's "Stonehenge":
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zg5Ovdu6bOE


While it sucks to hear that you are dealing with a severe lung infection, I am glad to hear that it isn't the hydra that is cancer.  Best of luck.

I wonder if the issue is work environment?  Just thinking of the lung damage that one can get in trade work that would weaken patches of the your lung tissue.  I know that the masks I often had in my brief stint as a laborer were insufficient for the dust I was dealing with.  Often had a grey beard and grit in my teeth after wearing a mask all day (and the beard wasn't causing issue with the mask sealing at the time)

----------


## Grytorm

Right now I want to die. Find some way to end things and wait until I am alone. I have tried before. I know tomorrow this will have receded. I will be back to seeming happy. Presenting a happy face to my family. A part of me finds the thought sickening. Another part finds the idea relieving. And another part gets analytical and doesn't know what to feel. Truthfully. Finding something to watch would really help but I am really focused on one thing right now and don't want to spend money to watch it and can't just refocus. This is a tangent. I feel a little calmer now. I just don't know what to say.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Right now I want to die. Find some way to end things and wait until I am alone. I have tried before. I know tomorrow this will have receded. I will be back to seem happy. Presenting a happy face to my family. A part of me finds the thought sickening. Another part finds the idea relieving. And another part gets analytical and doesn't know what to feel. Truthfully. Finding something to watch would really help but I am really focused on one thing right now and don't want to spend money to watch it and can't just refocus. This is a tangent. I feel a little calmer now. I just don't know what to say.


Oh no. Why don't you call the suicide hotline or go to the nearest emergency room. They'll help you with that.  :Frown:

----------


## Grytorm

> Oh no. Why don't you call the suicide hotline or go to the nearest emergency room. They'll help you with that.


I'm feeling somewhat better now. And being at home with family means I am not at any immediate risk. Trying to think of something positive to say but it is hard because I doubt I will actually call a hotline tomorrow so I can't really say that. And the comments on why I don't think I will hurt myself are simultaneously positive but still depressing. And I don't think I will hurt myself tomorrow but annoyingly I have a hard time saying I won't hurt myself. This isn't reassuring people much and trying to convince people that the previous post is not as serious as it seems is foolish. But I will be stay safe. Thank you.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I'm feeling somewhat better now. And being at home with family means I am not at any immediate risk. Trying to think of something positive to say but it is hard because I doubt I will actually call a hotline tomorrow so I can't really say that. And the comments on why I don't think I will hurt myself are simultaneously positive but still depressing. And I don't think I will hurt myself tomorrow but annoyingly I have a hard time saying I won't hurt myself. This isn't reassuring people much and trying to convince people that the previous post is not as serious as it seems is foolish. But I will stay safe. Thank you.


Well, I'm so glad that you feel better. If you ever want to talk. PM me if you want and you're welcome.  :Smile:

----------


## 2D8HP

> [...]





> [...]





> [...l





> [...]



Thank you dehro, Florian, Mith, and sktarq for your kindness. 




> I wonder if the issue is work environment?...



I wouldn't be surprised.

----------


## Grey Watcher

Mixed feelings about putting this out there, but why not, right?

So, on New Year's Eve, I got some disturbing news:  a recent routine blood panel showed my creatinine levels were really high (they should be roughly 1.0, I was at 4.3).  For those of you that don't know, this is an indication that your kidneys are having a very bad time.  By April, my kidneys were essentially shot (I can still pee, but they're basically not doing any filtering anymore).  I'm still in the midst of going through test after test after test after test to see if I'm a viable candidate for a transplant, which is exhausting in and of itself.

But even if everything's perfect, it could take years for a compatible kidney to become available.  So in the meantime, I have to, three times a week, spend three and a half hours sitting in a chair while a machine literally sucks my blood out to clean it and put it back in.  (Oh, and it means that I have to get stuck with two needles every time, which is great for someone who hates needles.)

And unlike most dialysis patients, I don't have problems with high blood pressure.  In fact, half the time, during my treatment by blood pressure plummets and I deal with a combination of severe lightheadedness (to the point where it's somehow painful), a feeling of overheating, and panic attacks.  They have to literally put me on oxygen to help me out.

I dread and resent it every time, but there's not a lot to be done.  I've taken to bringing a laptop and playing games like Heroes of Might and Magic or Monkey Island to sort of distract myself.  (I actually can't move my arms very much, because one of them has all the tubes in it and the other has to be kept straight most of the time to monitor my blood pressure.)

But that's all just the short term.  In the longer term, I'm trying to lose weight.  I'm basically right at the line of "too fat to go on the transplant list."  I'm... fairly confident I can lose enough weight in the next few months to get down to the "less risky" category.  When I put in the effort, I get good results with weight loss.  But it's still a little scary, since there's always "but what if I don't pull it off" in the back of my head.  The last thing I want is ANOTHER surgery to cut out half my stomach or something.  I don't care what the surgeon says about how "most people who get it wish they'd done it sooner," it sounds like a horrible idea.

Oh, and that blood pressure issue?  Not confined to the dialysis session itself.  Often, for the rest of the day, I'm basically useless.  I'll have bouts of lightheadedness, standing up or bending over can lead to a wave of dizziness, and I often just can't stay awake.  This isn't exactly surprising.  I lose about 3 kg (6.6 lbs) of weight every single session, and that's all coming straight out of my bloodstream.

Thanks to all of this I've lost my job and disability won't start paying out until December (my kidneys failed in April, but I'm basically being punished for trying to continue working because they calculate from "last day worked" not "date of diagnosis").  The only reason my fiance and I aren't totally boned is because he, miraculously, got a good-paying job in his field like two months before all of this hit the fan.

And on top of it all, I think, at 38, I'm the youngest patient in the clinic by a solid 20 years or more.

So, thanks 2020.  Great freaking year.

----------


## sneakykitten

I remember how the good, nice, kind people of the forums, told me to seek help. And then how I was homeless, except, nothing got better. Nobody wanted to treat a tenant who, like, minded her own biz or we thought we were minding our own biz? And by the way, to the A+ human being who talked to me thru PMs, thank you. Most people we meet don't find us worth anything. I'm nothing. A nobody.

Some tips for socially anxious/terrified/survivors:

1. When bullies escalate a situation into violence, forget tough talk, altho say it as you make *physical distance.* They may try to even flip the script, and yell you're hurting them which you didn't, i don't know the answer to that one except, to be dramatic back. When they lie to hurt you, you can lie back.

2. Listen and notice the tones of voice of people around you.

3. Don't stay in areas of a room that are blocked by objects or corners, unless you're with a safe person, however realize this puts you both at some level of risk so be alert.

4. My friends all told me to get sleep, cease talking to like dead ladies, and to cease doing *anything* i'm told.

5. I have a career/hobby writing, which was put on hold, would love to get back into collaborative writing.

Aside from that, i have woes, except the lesson is over and over that i am too trusting and naive. so instead of begging for help, i'd love, to help other people here with advice. My background for this kinda thing, is attempting to like, give suicidal people hope. I donated to somebody i just met, and we became close-ish, and went thru homeless adventures together. I only wanna give help people *wanted* tho, only if people ask, i don't know. anyway, thread tax:

Anybody that cares to give advice: I am shunned from normal society because of a disability, i applied to Goodwill several times, did unpaid work at the home, and the previous home. I'd love to be a housekeeper. I'd also love to learn conflict avoidance steps, since due to my upbringing as a poor lady nobody cares about, who people... aggress... with their bodies, like, dudez bigger than me (i'm a tall girl but these dudez had muscles) would slap me, shove me in the garbage, and more. Don't ask unless you really wanna know. So:

How do you avoid conflict when people aren't willing to stop conflicting with you, and for your safety, you have to avoid destructive influences like mockers and assaulters?

----------


## Thrawn4

> Mixed feelings about putting this out there, but why not, right?
> 
> So, on New Year's Eve, I got some disturbing news:  a recent routine blood panel showed my creatinine levels were really high (they should be roughly 1.0, I was at 4.3).  For those of you that don't know, this is an indication that your kidneys are having a very bad time.  By April, my kidneys were essentially shot (I can still pee, but they're basically not doing any filtering anymore).  I'm still in the midst of going through test after test after test after test to see if I'm a viable candidate for a transplant, which is exhausting in and of itself.
> 
> But even if everything's perfect, it could take years for a compatible kidney to become available.  So in the meantime, I have to, three times a week, spend three and a half hours sitting in a chair while a machine literally sucks my blood out to clean it and put it back in.  (Oh, and it means that I have to get stuck with two needles every time, which is great for someone who hates needles.)
> 
> And unlike most dialysis patients, I don't have problems with high blood pressure.  In fact, half the time, during my treatment by blood pressure plummets and I deal with a combination of severe lightheadedness (to the point where it's somehow painful), a feeling of overheating, and panic attacks.  They have to literally put me on oxygen to help me out.
> 
> I dread and resent it every time, but there's not a lot to be done.  I've taken to bringing a laptop and playing games like Heroes of Might and Magic or Monkey Island to sort of distract myself.  (I actually can't move my arms very much, because one of them has all the tubes in it and the other has to be kept straight most of the time to monitor my blood pressure.)
> ...


Suddenly realizing that your body is failing you is a shocking realization. I know because I have been there. So you have my sympathy. 

But you also have my respect: Instead of giving up, you devise a plan to improve your odds. That is not a small feat!

I don't know how much you know about losing wait, but there is something most people do wrong: they assume the first days of changing your habits and additional work are permanent, but they aren't. You get used to it rather quickly if you can keep it up from the start.
On a personal note: counting calories for a few days really helped me to get a perspective.
A little exerxise, like walking, might also help you with that AND your blood pressure.

To conclude: I know it sucks. It does. Being unusually young seems bad, but it also means that you have an excellent spot on the waiting list once you have lost your weight. And you have support and a battle plan to turn this mess into a temporary thing. Commence the fight.

----------


## Grey Watcher

> Suddenly realizing that your body is failing you is a shocking realization. I know because I have been there. So you have my sympathy. 
> 
> But you also have my respect: Instead of giving up, you devise a plan to improve your odds. That is not a small feat!
> 
> I don't know how much you know about losing wait, but there is something most people do wrong: they assume the first days of changing your habits and additional work are permanent, but they aren't. You get used to it rather quickly if you can keep it up from the start.
> On a personal note: counting calories for a few days really helped me to get a perspective.
> A little exerxise, like walking, might also help you with that AND your blood pressure.
> 
> To conclude: I know it sucks. It does. Being unusually young seems bad, but it also means that you have an excellent spot on the waiting list once you have lost your weight. And you have support and a battle plan to turn this mess into a temporary thing. Commence the fight.


I've gotten back on Weight Watchers, which worked really well awhile back.  Sticking t it didn't survive moving to NYC, but now that I've got stronger motivation (and enough money to afford the dues), tracking helps with keeping the habits going, since I get much more immediate feedback when I slip up.  But it's tricky since I have to get enough, but not too much phosphorus and potassium.  Which means a lot of healthy options like lentils or quinoa are things I can't have very often.

Exercise doesn't seem to be helping with the blood pressure much, but I'm still trying to keep up with it.

Honestly, it's more annoying than anything.  Though my exact feelings on the matter vary from day to day.

The good news is that, apart from my weight, all the tests have been coming back with a solid thumbs up for transplant readiness.  Apparently I'm in like the 94th percentile of viability, which is encouraging.

----------


## Lissou

@Grey Watcher
Not sure if this helps, but my dad (a nephrologist) suggests you bring something you love but can't normally eat and eat it at the beginning of your dialysis. Since your blood is getting filtered, it's the safest time to treat yourself, plus it can make you look forward to it a bit which is nice. And if you're going to be on a diet, it may help you not break it?

This really sucks and I'm sorry about all of this. For what it's worth, my husband has diabetes and anytime he's hard something pretty bad happening (amputations, going blind, organs failing...) all the doctors and nurse keep talking about how yound he is for any of this to be happening, which is annoying the first time but worse the thousands. So we feel your pain (he's a few years younger than you, but things have been going bad since he was in his twenties so we've heard a LOT of it).

I hope you can get a transplant and that things work out for you. Sorry disability is so stupid :(

----------


## Grey Watcher

> @Grey Watcher
> Not sure if this helps, but my dad (a nephrologist) suggests you bring something you love but can't normally eat and eat it at the beginning of your dialysis. Since your blood is getting filtered, it's the safest time to treat yourself, plus it can make you look forward to it a bit which is nice. And if you're going to be on a diet, it may help you not break it?


Maybe.  I've been loath to eat or drink during dialysis because they weigh me before and after, and I don't want to screw with that.




> This really sucks and I'm sorry about all of this. For what it's worth, my husband has diabetes and anytime he's hard something pretty bad happening (amputations, going blind, organs failing...) all the doctors and nurse keep talking about how yound he is for any of this to be happening, which is annoying the first time but worse the thousands. So we feel your pain (he's a few years younger than you, but things have been going bad since he was in his twenties so we've heard a LOT of it).


Sorry to hear about what your husband is going through.  That sounds absolutely brutal.

And yeah, "wow, you're so young to be going through this" goes from dull to grating in short order.




> I hope you can get a transplant and that things work out for you. Sorry disability is so stupid :(


I had a friend who expressed interest in donating, but I'm not sure if he changed his mind.  We didn't exactly have a falling out, but I think I pissed him off and I don't know where we stand now.  My mom said she'd donate, but putting a 75 year old kidney into a 38 year old isn't a good idea, since the goal is to get me something that'll last me the rest of my life.

I don't really know how to put it out there that I need one, especially since I don't use social media anymore.  It's not like I can just individually ask people.  That's too much to ask.

A donor would be ideal, though, since it'd get all of this over with sooner.  But that seems unlikely.

----------


## darkdragoon

It's nice to be vindicated I guess but I wanted my friend back. Especially since at one point it seemed like we could have been more than that. I keep thinking if I had run into her earlier a lot of this could have been avoided.  But right now she still doesn't want to talk things over.


But that's been in the background. Unfortunately some seemingly petty gripes exploded over the past weekend at work.  As much as I would rather not see things go down this way there are things I do not tolerate and I would rather be shorthanded rather than have someone who clearly does not want to be here / is negatively impacting everyone else's performance.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I'm getting upset about this forum because there are some members in this forum that they have a hard time understanding my clarification even I explained to them multiple times which was a very clear explanation. I need a break from this forum.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

So I have wanted to share this properly for a little while (its also personal health-related). This story is mostly dealt with, but I wanted to share it in a way that was at least semi-public. My apologies if it comes across as self-indulgent, but its been weighing on me.

Back in May, I began to have pains in my lower right calf. This was about 6 weeks into the UK COVID lockdown (I am Canadian, teaching English here for 2 years with a temporary work visa, but I wont even get into how homesick I am or Ill be here all night). I had recently begun exercising as a way to keep some of the lockdown weight off, and initially I thought that I had not stretched properly after running.

Then, a few days later, I started having trouble breathing. It was subtle at first: I had a tightness in my chest and I ran out of breath more easily. Then it started getting worse. I became unable to lie down and still breathe normally. Walking became increasingly difficult, and I was struggling to do anything without agonizing pain.

I ended up travelling to a hospital, afraid that I had come down with COVID-19 as I had lost my sense of smell and taste about a week before for a few days. They did some tests - xrays, CT angiograms, the works - before determining that I did not, in fact, have coronavirus. Instead, I had some minor clotting in my lungs. Cause unsure. They sent me off on my way within a few hours with prescriptions for blood thinners and painkillers, and I thought that would be the end of it.

By the next morning the pain had increased. This was 10/10 pain, the absolute worst that I have ever experienced. My flatmates had to come and check on me because the only sounds I was making were screams. We immediately called an ambulance, who took me to a different hospital. They dosed me with as much morphine as they could legally administer and let me drift off for an entire afternoon. By the time I came to, I was hooked up to a steady IV drip, was being given oxygen, and was on a steady codeine and antibiotics diet.

It turns out that I had severe blood clots in both lungs (caused by deep vein thrombosis, or DVT), as well as a staff infection in my lungs. The hospital staff were shocked that I had been discharged from the first place. I ended up staying there for three days and four nights. Now I know that doesnt seem like a long time, but when youre a physically healthy 25 year old male with absolutely zero prior problems, you get a bit freaked out when your lungs just stop working practically overnight.

Right now, the running theory is that I had a strain of COVID 19, which then allowed the infection to enter into my lungs and made me vulnerable to DVT. But the hospital doesnt know: months of tests later, and they are only able to rule out lung cancer and a few other more common ailments. I still take daily blood thinners, and although my prescription has run out, I still regularly take extra strength painkillers to avoid feeling pain in my chest. I am weaker now, and I worry that I will never reach the same point that I was before all of this.

But the thing that is really frightening me? When the doctors at the second hospital discharged me, they were frank about the long term consequences. What I had would not go away quickly, and with every year that passed, the chances of the blood clots returning in full force would increase. To have DVT and blood clots at my age was rare, but they felt confident enough to tell me to expect increasing complications into middle age. On average, my life expectancy has now been shortened by about 10 years. I know that its an average number and a lot of the problems can be offset by taking care of myself, but that number is still burning a hole in my brain. That I might die 10 years early because of anomalous clots in my lungs keeps me up at night.

----------


## Tvtyrant

> So I have wanted to share this properly for a little while (its also personal health-related). This story is mostly dealt with, but I wanted to share it in a way that was at least semi-public. My apologies if it comes across as self-indulgent, but its been weighing on me.
> 
> Back in May, I began to have pains in my lower right calf. This was about 6 weeks into the UK COVID lockdown (I am Canadian, teaching English here for 2 years with a temporary work visa, but I wont even get into how homesick I am or Ill be here all night). I had recently begun exercising as a way to keep some of the lockdown weight off, and initially I thought that I had not stretched properly after running.
> 
> Then, a few days later, I started having trouble breathing. It was subtle at first: I had a tightness in my chest and I ran out of breath more easily. Then it started getting worse. I became unable to lie down and still breathe normally. Walking became increasingly difficult, and I was struggling to do anything without agonizing pain.
> 
> I ended up travelling to a hospital, afraid that I had come down with COVID-19 as I had lost my sense of smell and taste about a week before for a few days. They did some tests - xrays, CT angiograms, the works - before determining that I did not, in fact, have coronavirus. Instead, I had some minor clotting in my lungs. Cause unsure. They sent me off on my way within a few hours with prescriptions for blood thinners and painkillers, and I thought that would be the end of it.
> 
> By the next morning the pain had increased. This was 10/10 pain, the absolute worst that I have ever experienced. My flatmates had to come and check on me because the only sounds I was making were screams. We immediately called an ambulance, who took me to a different hospital. They dosed me with as much morphine as they could legally administer and let me drift off for an entire afternoon. By the time I came to, I was hooked up to a steady IV drip, was being given oxygen, and was on a steady codeine and antibiotics diet.
> ...


I am so very, very sorry. That is truly awful.

----------


## Lissou

Unfortunately my husband died this morning. As it was a non-covid death, I have been able to visit him in the hospital and I guess say my goodbyes. Today I was supposed to bring him the Mandalorian and Discovery episodes, as the hospital has no Internet. I watched them with him, even though he'd been dead for a few hours at that point.
It's very weird because it sounds like a preposterous thing to say, but after hours of crying and wondering how it could have happened and so on, spending two hours watchin shows with him was familiar and comforting, and I felt like I kept to my word even though it wasn't in the way either of us could have hoped.
I am calm right now but I know it will be breakdown after breakdown whenever I see something that reminds me of him, which will be a lot of things, especially as we live(d) together and all of his stuff is around. His computer is stilll on from when he was rushed to the hospital on the 2nd of November, and I really don't want to ever turn it off, even though it makes no sense to me.

I've been looking at grief and losing a spouse in your thirties and these kind of things. The timing of course sucks, which the lockdown back in place my family can't easily visit or vice versa. I don't know how I'd deal with company though. At the hospital everyone was going out of their way to be nice and apologetic to me, even touching me (not in a creepy way; but come on, hospital during covid!) and it was extremely uncomfortable, it made me feel like I was supposed to help them feel better and couldn't be left to grieve on my own. Having people over, unless they were friends who acted normal, would probably be similar.

I'm home now and tired, physically and emotionally. Tomorrow I'm sorting things with the funeral people, lots of paperwork but I'll get his death certificate, which I'll be needing.

I feel like I need to live my life better. He was so supportive of me and I let him down. There is no sense in blaming myself now but I want to reach my potential and do it for him. I don't know where to start, but I don't have to start right away so I should be fine.

Love to all of you and thank you if you read the whole thing.

----------


## HalfTangible

Christ.

I'm so sorry, Lissou.  :Small Frown:

----------


## Tvtyrant

:Small Frown:  That is so horrible. I'm so sorry.

----------


## dehro

@Lissou..
I am sorry to hear this. 
Know that, however small a way as it can be, you are not alone.

----------


## sktarq

lissou

Bloody hell....that's tough. 

For whatever good words on the internet can do I'm so very sorry for your loss. 
Honestly the wanting to watch a video or three with him makes a ton of sense and probably one of the best things you could have done. He seemed to have been deeply in pain and now he is at peace..don't forget that you'll need to take care of yourself, even if you don't feel like it. Pm if you want of course but no pressure. Hell that should probably be your mantra for a bit. Let yourself grieve however you need for a while big or small (and small can be just as tough)...but best wishes in trying times. 

**Passes internet cookies and whiskey**

----------


## Grey Watcher

> Unfortunately my husband died this morning. As it was a non-covid death, I have been able to visit him in the hospital and I guess say my goodbyes. Today I was supposed to bring him the Mandalorian and Discovery episodes, as the hospital has no Internet. I watched them with him, even though he'd been dead for a few hours at that point.
> It's very weird because it sounds like a preposterous thing to say, but after hours of crying and wondering how it could have happened and so on, spending two hours watchin shows with him was familiar and comforting, and I felt like I kept to my word even though it wasn't in the way either of us could have hoped.
> I am calm right now but I know it will be breakdown after breakdown whenever I see something that reminds me of him, which will be a lot of things, especially as we live(d) together and all of his stuff is around. His computer is stilll on from when he was rushed to the hospital on the 2nd of November, and I really don't want to ever turn it off, even though it makes no sense to me.
> 
> I've been looking at grief and losing a spouse in your thirties and these kind of things. The timing of course sucks, which the lockdown back in place my family can't easily visit or vice versa. I don't know how I'd deal with company though. At the hospital everyone was going out of their way to be nice and apologetic to me, even touching me (not in a creepy way; but come on, hospital during covid!) and it was extremely uncomfortable, it made me feel like I was supposed to help them feel better and couldn't be left to grieve on my own. Having people over, unless they were friends who acted normal, would probably be similar.
> 
> I'm home now and tired, physically and emotionally. Tomorrow I'm sorting things with the funeral people, lots of paperwork but I'll get his death certificate, which I'll be needing.
> 
> I feel like I need to live my life better. He was so supportive of me and I let him down. There is no sense in blaming myself now but I want to reach my potential and do it for him. I don't know where to start, but I don't have to start right away so I should be fine.
> ...


I'm really sad to hear about this.

I understand where the people at the hospital were coming from, I guess.  But I also understand where you're coming from, too.  Finding the right balance between supportive and providing space is difficult.

For what little it's worth, I don't think you let him down.  You were there for him when he needed you most, and that's what really matters.

I can't claim to understand what you're going through on any real level, but if there's anything I can do, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

----------


## Lissou

Thank you, everyone. It helps to have support. I'm trying to take care of myself right now as the funeral arrangements have been made and now I just need to wait for his urn to get back to me. I go between emotional, numb, and forgetting he's not just around the corner, which I think are all normal.
My mother spent the day with me yesterday, which she could do for bereavement reasons, but won't be able to do again (she's from another city and travel is restricted because of the lockdown). It was nice to see her, and she helped me clean my place and get groceries.

Last night I had a dream about Sean. We talked about how we both knew it was a dream but I might as well enjoy his presence. It felt nice to be close to him even though it was all in my head.

I'll continue to take care of myself and the pets, who force me to get up every morning to feed them at least :) If I need to talk I'll happy take you guys up on your offers.

Thanks again!

----------


## uraniumdragon

> Unfortunately my husband died this morning....
> 
> I feel like I need to live my life better. He was so supportive of me and I let him down. There is no sense in blaming myself now but I want to reach my potential and do it for him....


You chose to support him in return. That would have been the right thing to do anyway, but it was even more so now, knowing for certain which goal had limited time to be accomplished in.

Im glad you managed to get to your homeland in time. I remember his homeland wasnt good to either of you. Though home was of course wherever your love is.

Before this year I wouldntve believed in the return of spirits in dreams but...well...2020 changed *everything*Im struggling with a recent spirits visit myself. Your husband, he knows where his beacon and his love is.

----------


## D&D_Fan

I messed up. I wanted to join a cool Homestuck rp server. I joined. I accidentally misspoke. It sounded bad. I was banned, but at first I didn't realize it, or why. Then I made an alt and rejoined to ask why. I got the answer. It seemed like a misunderstanding. I was banned again for ban evasion. It only hit me until later that what I said exactly. I will not put it here because the topic would get me banned here. 
When I realized what I did, I panicked. I went full paranoid. I deleted my tumblr. I deleted all my discord accounts to prevent being traced or detected or hunted.
I can't even sleep. I am scared. I am depressed. This is not the first time this has happened to me, though it is arguably the worst.
I don't knpw what to do.
This place seemed like the right spot to write this.

----------


## D&D_Fan

Ok, I'm doing a bit better now.
I don't really know what came over me, I just freaked out over something I said, was stricken with regret, and went into a full panic-damage-control-self-preservation mode. I just deleted a lot of stuff, and that was either very stupid or very smart. I have not seen myself act this intensely like this. I can get overwhelmed and just try to nope out of stuff, but never before have I felt compelled to burn everything down as I did.
Now I am a bit calmer, but I still don't know what to do.
I read that the best thing to do when you make a mistake and have issues with regret is to acknowledge your feelings but to use it to learn and move on.

----------


## D&D_Fan

update: I reactivated my account, I am doing much better.
Thanks for providing me a place to just share all of this.

----------


## HalfTangible

So in the space of about a day I got kicked out of a friend's group I was having a lot of fun with over a dumb political argument that got started _this morning_ and around the same time I learned this one of the few really strong friendships I made on this forum decided to leave the place permanently due to the same issues (albeit nothing to do with me in his case). This would've been a small thing on its own but it feels like the straw breaking the camel's back.

Everything I say and do feels like a mistake. I make friends with people who think I'm subhuman, or I say the wrong thing to people whose company is mutually enjoyable, and stuff I was enjoying or looking forward to gets aborted or canned. Talking about any of this stuff never works out but I can't just ignore the topic when it's brought up, that's not healthy either! One step forward, five steps back because a metal bat just slammed into my face.

I've been told that if someone stops being your friend because they disagree with you politically they weren't really your friend. And that... honestly I'm not sure I believe it. I understand it, logically speaking, but it feels like bull, especially when it just _keeps happening._

Sometimes it's the other person's fault and I know that in my bones ("you're subhuman" is pretty unambiguously in that category). Others... I mean... we were joking around, having fun, then I say something wrong and I get blocked and kicked out because I crossed some line. I'm not saying this came out of nowhere or that there weren't problems before then, just... this felt like I ruined something good I had going. Sooner or later you stop being able to say or even think "it's not my fault" when the same problem keeps popping up over and over. 

I've gotten better as a person and stabilized emotionally (it doesn't sound like it I know) but nowhere near enough. Not for me, not for the people I interact with... I miss my friends, I miss our games, I miss being able to play without getting into a stupid argument that ruins everything.

And I am... _much_ more upset about all of this than I should be. All I had to do was *keep my stupid ****ing mouth shut for like an hour* and I *couldn't* and now I'm ****ing alone all over again!! I just... I'm sick of everything. I hate my life, I hate myself, and I hate whatever stupid ****ing twist of fate decided I can only make friends with people I disagree with in the most extreme degree imaginable.

I don't want people to hate me but that's all I ever get them to ****ing do and sooner or later ya start to think you deserve it.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> So in the space of about a day I got kicked out of a friend's group I was having a lot of fun with over a dumb political argument that got started _this morning_ and around the same time I learned this one of the few really strong friendships I made on this forum decided to leave the place permanently due to the same issues (albeit nothing to do with me in his case). This would've been a small thing on its own but it feels like the straw breaking the camel's back.
> 
> Everything I say and do feel like a mistake. I make friends with people who think I'm subhuman, or I say the wrong thing to people whose company is mutually enjoyable, and stuff I was enjoying or looking forward to gets aborted or canned. Talking about any of this stuff never works out but I can't just ignore the topic when it's brought up, that's not healthy either! One step forward, five steps back because a metal bat just slammed into my face.
> 
> I've been told that if someone stops being your friend because they disagree with you politically they weren't your friend. And that... honestly I'm not sure I believe it. I understand it, logically speaking, but it feels like a bull, especially when it just _keeps happening._
> 
> Sometimes it's the other person's fault and I know that in my bones ("you're subhuman" is pretty unambiguously in that category). Others... I mean... we were joking around, having fun, then I say something wrong, and I get blocked and kicked out because I crossed some line. I'm not saying this came out of nowhere or that there weren't problems before then, just... this felt like I ruined something good I had going. Sooner or later you stop being able to say or even think "it's not my fault" when the same problem keeps popping up over and over. 
> 
> I've gotten better as a person and stabilized emotionally (it doesn't sound like it I know) but nowhere near enough. Not for me, not for the people I interact with... I miss my friends, I miss our games, I miss being able to play without getting into a stupid argument that ruins everything.
> ...


To be honest, I don't hate you. We all say things that we regret but we're human after all.  :Smile:

----------


## Bonecrusher Doc

I don't really have anything to say here except that something told me to go to this thread right now and give support to anyone who is struggling or feeling lonely. This includes those of you who have not actually posted anything.  So I guess I'm just saying I'm here with you, listening.

...While I'm at it, I'll say I've been disappointed by some people and I am finding it difficult to forgive them.

----------


## D&D_Fan

@halftangible
I relate and sympathize with you almost 100%
I feel the exact same way.

As far as advice: If you say something you regret, apologize. Not just to others, but for yourself. Apologizing will help you recover and relieve stress. If you cannot apologize, just use your emotions in a practical way: Learn and adapt, resolve to work towards not repeating the mistake. You won't fix your own problems instantly, but you have to keep working towards it. Finally: most people will forget what you said (not 100% of the time though) If the thing is cringey, but still relatively minor, most other people will forget about it, you just have to resolve your own feelings about what you said.

----------


## HalfTangible

> @halftangible
> I relate and sympathize with you almost 100%
> I feel the exact same way.
> 
> As far as advice: If you say something you regret, apologize. Not just to others, but for yourself. Apologizing will help you recover and relieve stress. If you cannot apologize, just use your emotions in a practical way: Learn and adapt, resolve to work towards not repeating the mistake. You won't fix your own problems instantly, but you have to keep working towards it. Finally: most people will forget what you said (not 100% of the time though) If the thing is cringey, but still relatively minor, most other people will forget about it, you just have to resolve your own feelings about what you said.


Apologies never seem to help. If anything they just take it as a sign that I was in the wrong and it was okay to go on the attack. Over and over again.

People will forget what you've said but they will never forget how you made them feel. For this most recent incident "maybe in another life, we'll share dice again" (followed by a block) seems pretty definitively over even if he doesn't remember exactly why he decided that. Can't really get into specifics due to forum rules, but in my eyes, what I said was contentious but not harsh. The GM thought it was cruel even if I didn't mean it to be and then blocked me. The guy I was talking to certainly didn't seem to think so, he's submitting to another game I'm running and we're talking over his character.

The GM helped me out of some pretty low points when I had fights with other friends, and... *sigh* I dunno. Maybe he'll forgive me in a month, or even a year or two but if past experience is anything to go by we'll never speak again and that knowledge _hurts_.

----------


## D&D_Fan

> Apologies never seem to help. If anything they just take it as a sign that I was in the wrong and it was okay to go on the attack. Over and over again.
> 
> People will forget what you've said but they will never forget how you made them feel. For this most recent incident "maybe in another life, we'll share dice again" (followed by a block) seems pretty definitively over even if he doesn't remember exactly why he decided that. Can't really get into specifics due to forum rules, but in my eyes, what I said was contentious but not harsh. The GM thought it was cruel even if I didn't mean it to be and then blocked me. The guy I was talking to certainly didn't seem to think so, he's submitting to another game I'm running and we're talking over his character.
> 
> The GM helped me out of some pretty low points when I had fights with other friends, and... *sigh* I dunno. Maybe he'll forgive me in a month, or even a year or two but if past experience is anything to go by we'll never speak again and that knowledge _hurts_.


That is the problem I have had. Not everyone will forgive you, or even give you a chance at all. It is really hard to recover from those things. I had an incident a while ago where I was banned from a group, and while I apologized, and appealed, they have not responded at all. at this point I basically told them that I gave up with trying to appeal the ban. Recently I had to turn to them and ask if there were any other groups that played the game. At a certain point, even I don't know what to do. It is hard to know what to do when you cannot forgive or be forgiven.

----------


## HalfTangible

> That is the problem I have had. Not everyone will forgive you, or even give you a chance at all. It is really hard to recover from those things. I had an incident a while ago where I was banned from a group, and while I apologized, and appealed, they have not responded at all. at this point I basically told them that I gave up with trying to appeal the ban. Recently I had to turn to them and ask if there were any other groups that played the game. At a certain point, even I don't know what to do. It is hard to know what to do when you cannot forgive or be forgiven.


Decided to give this a shot. Doesn't seem like it worked.

But... least I tried.

----------


## Xyril

> Decided to give this a shot. Doesn't seem like it worked.
> 
> But... least I tried.


Sorry to hear that.

For what it's worth, it might help to keep in mind that them declining to take you back doesn't mean that they've decided what you did was unforgivable, or that they think you're an irredeemably bad person. Ultimately, they're there to have fun, and a good GM is supposed to take the lead in making sure everything goes smoothly. That means that sometimes, he might decide that there's too much history with somebody to risk bringing them back into the game.

This also means that staying out of the game doesn't have to prevent you from individually repairing your relationships with your friends from that game. It sounds like you have at least one person on your side. You can still have an active relationship with them even if you're no longer playing that one game together, and they might even be able to help you to think through how you might want to do things with your next group.

----------


## HalfTangible

> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> For what it's worth, it might help to keep in mind that them declining to take you back doesn't mean that they've decided what you did was unforgivable, or that they think you're an irredeemably bad person. Ultimately, they're there to have fun, and a good GM is supposed to take the lead in making sure everything goes smoothly. That means that sometimes, he might decide that there's too much history with somebody to risk bringing them back into the game.
> 
> This also means that staying out of the game doesn't have to prevent you from individually repairing your relationships with your friends from that game. It sounds like you have at least one person on your side. You can still have an active relationship with them even if you're no longer playing that one game together, and they might even be able to help you to think through how you might want to do things with your next group.


The history here is, by his own logic, a singular comment that didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I asked about other things I might've done wrong and he said no.

The GM did say he didn't go democratic about it to avoid resentment, but he _also_ said he's not personally angry about it and knows I meant no harm. He blocked me immediately after telling me to GTFO and seems to think what I did was unforgivable even if only by accident. Which is _really_ confusing because the guy also said I'm a better GM than him and I'll find a better game somewhere else. Even though I loved his game, he knew that, and GMing and playing a game are two very different experiences.

And he tells me "maybe we'll share dice again in another life". That's pretty definitively over, not a simple matter of 'this group doesn't like you' (in fact he went out of his way to deny that).

I lost a good friend over a single comment and even by his own story I did nothing wrong. I am upset and _so ****ing confused._

Part of me wants to stay angry and hold a grudge. The better part of me is pointing out that a grudge is pointless because it's on him if we ever speak again, and also because it'll just hurt more.

*sigh* Nothing to be done about it now.

EDIT: And the very next morning I get news that's even worse that I'm not sure is a great idea to talk about in public.

----------


## D&D_Fan

It has been some time since I last posted.
I am back at square 3 plan I.
I just want to play my Homestuck game. Nobody else wants to. All of the other groups just aren't for me. I am sad, and I feel I may just admit defeat here.
I have been trying for so long, it just wasn't meant to be. of course, I can always retry Plan G or Plan E if I want but I doubt anything new will come out of it.

Just recently I told my friends about the next campaign I had planned, which was what I wanted to do, and they all didn't like it all. None of the other Homestuck TTRPG groups play the same game or have other fun games, and none of them feel right for me.

:((((((((((((((

----------


## 2D8HP

The woman I later married gave me the happiest months of my life 27 to 28 years ago, and everytime she smiles at me I fall in love with her again, but more and more the near certain knowledge that she will never kiss me again breaks my heart and gives me tears, last night was an example, I brought home treats and roses for her this week and she screamed at me I hate roses, why did you get roses?!, and I answered They were pretty and I thought theyd be nice on our wedding anniversary, she got quiet, and said Oh and walked out of the room, a little later she came back into the room gave me a little hug and smile and said Sorry I forgot, you know Im not sentimental, next time get flowers without thorns, and then she went back to her bedroom of nine years that Ive never slept in  its just never been cold enough for her to want to share a bed with me anymore (the sole exception is when we went up to her mother's house this year to deal with her mother's dementia, we shared a bed then - and also with a four year old).

I thought the beauty of a rose made it worth the thorns, but I made a mistake that night, and maybe almost thirty years ago as well when I was blinded by beauty, sentimental fool that I am. Judging by her mother and my father I will die first, and I keep telling myself if she holds my hand again while Im dying it will be worth it.

Will she?

I cant be sure anymore, what I can be be sure of is that while I still feel it for her any romantically in-love she felt for me died years ago, I think Im like her little brother to her now  so tears.

I did get another small smile and half hug the next day after I hugged her and told her "I'll always love you" - but left unsaid (by me) was 'even after were separated' as I'm still pretty much "in-love" with girls I loved 30+ years ago (including the lady I dated who committed suicide - which haunts me).

Likely I won't leave her, there's my 15 year old step-son who while he knows that I'm not his (in the words of his mother) "real father" is very affectionate towards me, and there's the four year old test tube baby (neither of us is the genetic parent). Meanwhile I do have a genetic daughter (blood tests seldom lie) that I've never met face-to-face who's living in another State, who's mother I really don't remember, and she's now a young adult and seems to have turned out well - which makes me even more regret that my wife chose to conceive with a donor (after the still birth of her first child she said she wanted to "have a baby together" but soon she changed her mind, so both of our surviving children aren't mine by blood but I'm the only Dad they've known).

So I need to reconcile myself to never being kissed again. 

Unintentionally this last year I've lost a lot of weight and now fit pants I haven't been able to squeeze into since the '90's, still unexplained, for a week my Doctor said there was an 80% chance that I had lung cancer, but that was rescinded (a biopsy of my lungs showed a fungal infection instead), and afterwards I really didn't feel much happier knowing I didn't have cancer after all, it may have been something besides the long lonely years of unrequited longing I expect (actually not that long, if I live as long as my father I have about 27 years left, if I live as long as my wife's father it will only be about 14 years left).

----------


## sktarq

Geh,

OOUUUUCCCHHH

Well that...
Damn I...I have no real words here, mate. Not ones I have confidence in at least. 

Should have been a pshrink. So I'd recommend you talk to one. No seriously...I'm normally good at this stuff but this, yeah, I'd recommend a professional. . . Or a priest if that is more your cup of tea. This is a step up from a tear in your beer level...besides no beer for you...not in those meds. 

Because this hurts my soul

(Especially about still being in love with the girl who committed suicide 30 years ago) 

...
Its rough, you have basically looked into death this year and not liked what you see especially now that you know you'll make it. So there is a LOT on your plate.  And so now seeing this...and seeing the future is now hard. 

How are you feeling about your health and the not gonna die by cancer stuff? 

So you have my deepest sympathies.
And PM box open if you need it.

----------


## dehro

> ....


I'm sorry to hear about your struggle.
it seems to me you two need to have a long series of conversations.
possibly, at some stage, involving a neutral party in attendance.
you describe several serious issues both in your wife's behaviour and in your relationship.
these things do not solve themselves, and you can't do all the legwork on them either. 
it must be a shared load to bear, and you need to find out if she's willing.
neither of you, probably, deserves to just wait around to die, or for the other to die, to be somehow comforted in the relationship or, maybe, move on from it.
you might find out that, irrespective of your feelings, the relationship is functionally over and onesided at best..or maybe that it is in fact perfectly salvageable through communication.
don't let the fear of the inevitable pain of discovery, one way or another, stop you from starting that process. it is not a band-aid.

----------


## 2D8HP

> [...]This is a step up from a tear in your beer level...besides no beer for you...not in those meds.[...]



Yeah, I'm forbidden alcohol (and most headache medicines) now because of the anti-fungal pills I'm taking for my lungs put a strain on my liver, so no beer for me




> ]...]How are you feeling about your health and the not gonna die by cancer stuff?



I still have the symptoms that prompted the now rescinded lung cancer diagnosis (and I've been tested for covid-19 five times this last year, all tests showed negative), the weird weight loss thing (which is one of the reasons my physician suspected cancer) is still unexplained, now I get a blood test every couple of months to make sure my liver isn't failing (and I've been at the death bed and was a pall bearer for a man who died from a failed liver so I know what that's looks like), and about every few months there's another x-ray of my lungs, the last one did show the "growths" in my lungs were subsiding. 

Otherwise, this is sick, I had hoped if I was really dying soon my wife would've been more affectionate towards me, but during the week between being told "80% chance of lung cancer" and the biopsy results showing a fungal infection instead, I didn't see much affectionate, only anger - she told me she cried (I didn't see it), but she also told me "I can't do all three" (raise kids, deal with her mother's dementia, and also with me).




> So you have my deepest sympathies.
> And PM box open if you need it.



Thanks @sktarq, you're very kind.




> I'm sorry to hear about your struggle.
> [...]



Thanks for your kind words @dehro

----------


## Mith

> ...


I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.  If you think I am of any use to talk to, feel free to PM me as well.

However, I also second the discussion with either a professional to help sit down and unpack your own thoughts, as well as with you and your partner.  Because this isn't good for either of you (not if the observation is "I cannot do all of this.").

I really recommend looking to some way to mend this rift, even if it is an amiable parting.  That is still better closure than limbo.

*sigh* I wish I have better words to say, but I think the others have covered it in better than I can.

Best wishes to you and yours.

----------


## HalfTangible

I've been looking for an entry level programming position for a year. I've had 4 job offers since the pandemic kicked into high gear. One didn't get past the interview stage. The remaining three were all scams, one of which cleaned out every cent I've ever earned (this is referenced in an earlier post as something I wasn't sure I should talk about but **** it I need to say it here). I have family I can fall back on, but at this stage, it feels like I'm going to spend the rest of my life as my crippled mother's personal manservant. Or more accurately, all of HER life, and then by that point I won't be able to do anything else and will just die in a ditch somewhere. Just learned today we're not going to Washington DC in January (she wanted that for Christmas), thank ****ing Christ.

I've mentioned this a few times, but my demented grandmother also had to stay at our house  starting in... I think late January? And she was adamant that my mother be the one to help her with everything. My _crippled_ mother. Neither she nor I got to sleep uninterrupted for that entire time frame. We found poop everywhere and objects moved constantly. Oh, and said grandmother also hit me and my mother (who is in a ****ing _wheelchair)_, so that was fun.

I was in two friendgroups at the start of this year. One I'd already been having problems with even before the pandemic, and the pressure brought on by that just made it worse. I miss that group as a whole, but not all of them; I was not sad to say goodbye to the pair of *******s who thought I was a subhuman Nazi and openly told me so. The other, though... from the GM's comments, the reason I was booted then was because I'd confided in him about the falling out with the previous group, _not_ because of anything I actually did (and in fact went out of his way to deny any other potential problems that I brought up)

So, yeah. Was in a group where I had to deal with toxic AF people, trusted the wrong person later, spent what little time this year DIDN'T have a pandemic taking care of an old woman with dementia who outright hated us for it, AND got scammed out of all my money.

Everything was going so well. I'd actually started coming out of the house, talking to people, writing more of my novel (hit 50k yesterday, for what that's worth), I was going to conventions and actually fighting back depression. Now I feel like I'm worse off than when I started and that the last 10 years and three degrees (two Bachelor's, one Associates) were a complete waste of time and money.

People keep telling me it'll get better and they're full of garbage. It won't get better. It only ever gets worse. If anything in your life is good, it's just so when you lose it, it can hurt you more.

----------


## BisectedBrioche

Well, this morning I woke up to the news that my mum (who's been in hospital with COVID related complications)'s conditioned has worsened, and my dad should go in to see her (I offered to drive him, be he insisted he's fine).

On a more selfish level, I suspect I might have been infected too, with milder symptoms (because why not be stuck working retail for a year, but trip over just when I'm supposed to be off for a while). I'm terrified this'll rule out my Gender Confirmation Surgery (which I was overjoyed to hear I'd finally made it to the top of the queue for after 5 years), as my blood test results have been saying my white blood cell count is low...

I had a lot of plans for 2021, but now I haven't got any idea what I'm going to do...

EDIT: My dad called from the hospital, and put my mum on the phone. She repeated "I love you" several times, and wasn't sure if I could hear her (I said I could several times), before my dad reassured her that I'd answered that I can. My dad going in is absolutely the only exception they're making to rules against visitors in the current climate, so...that's all I'm getting.

EDIT 2: This morning I got the news she died in the small hours. So...yep, that's the nearest I got to being able to say goodbye. 

Wear a mask.

----------


## dehro

> Well, this morning I woke up to the news that my mum (who's been in hospital with COVID related complications)'s conditioned has worsened, and my dad should go in to see her (I offered to drive him, be he insisted he's fine).
> 
> On a more selfish level, I suspect I might have been infected too, with milder symptoms (because why not be stuck working retail for a year, but trip over just when I'm supposed to be off for a while). I'm terrified this'll rule out my Gender Confirmation Surgery (which I was overjoyed to hear I'd finally made it to the top of the queue for after 5 years), as my blood test results have been saying my white blood cell count is low...
> 
> I had a lot of plans for 2021, but now I haven't got any idea what I'm going to do...
> 
> EDIT: My dad called from the hospital, and put my mum on the phone. She repeated "I love you" several times, and wasn't sure if I could hear her (I said I could several times), before my dad reassured her that I'd answered that I can. My dad going in is absolutely the only exception they're making to rules against visitors in the current climate, so...that's all I'm getting.
> 
> EDIT 2: This morning I got the news she died in the small hours. So...yep, that's the nearest I got to being able to say goodbye. 
> ...


condolences and virtual hugs. I am sorry... 
you are not alone.

----------


## BisectedBrioche

> condolences and virtual hugs. I am sorry... 
> you are not alone.


Thanks...it hurts, but I've got to keep going.

----------


## sktarq

> Thanks...it hurts, but I've got to keep going.


Very true. but do let yourself mourn too. 

Best wishes and my deepest sympathies.

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## HalfTangible

> Thanks...it hurts, but I've got to keep going.


Yes.

But you also need to mourn. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's healthier in the long run.

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## inespie

First time I went to this thread since a long time following Oots, and... well ****. Decided to finally create a account. 
That's a lot of trauma. 

I don't know what to say. Had some, but reading this page I see i'm rather a lucky one. 

I just have to say...

If you ****ed up, if you know you ****ed up, well, that's bad, but at least you know it. 

One of the problem I had to solve last year was about someone that ****ed up, and despite several warning that he ****ed up, disregarded them as mobbing on him, and kept ****ing up until forcefully removed of our life. 
If I had less anger I would say I would feel pity on him. If he don't perceive or refuse to see any fault, he will never change and improve. 

And well *BisectedBrioche*, sorry for your loss, and the circonstance it happened. 
Take your time to mourn, and i would say have a ritual, religious or not, to say goodbye. Those are important for the ones who are left. 
I personally felt more solace after a bar rendez-vous with all the friends of someone that died than during his cremation, strangely. I've seen, and heard about a lot of facets on the man than I have ever know in his live. 
Of course with the current crap you can't do exactly that.

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## The Fury

Some time ago, I needed to take a break from things that required much mental engagement. I was a little coy about the specifics, but in truth it's been wearing me down a lot.

*Spoiler: CW: Substance use and suicide*
Show

My friends have been needing some distance from me, which is fine and totally understandable. I've been worried that I've been drifting apart from them, that isn't fair for me to think like that and the fact that I _know_ I'm being unfair is eating away at me. This isn't to say that they never interact with me, they usually need to have someone else there to act as a buffer. So this has been the background radiation of my life for months now.

One night one of my roommates had gotten into some cannabis edibles and came into my room having cut up their arm. They asked if we had bandaids, we didn't have any that were big enough so I drove to a 24 hour grocery store to buy some. Later they explained that in their altered state of mind they thought their arm was dead and saw no problem with cutting it. Before any of you try to explain that "cannabis doesn't work like that!" this is how _they_ explained it to _me._ Or rather, it was how they explained it to someone else while I was in the same room.

Afterward, they started looking into the possibility of a hospital stay and being put on suicide watch. Their father agreed to take them. Unfortunately he also thought it would be a good idea to get their mother involved too. Their mother has a history of being emotionally and physically abusive. The mother was against the idea and insisted that they stay with her instead. Eventually old problems with their mother resurfaced and my roommate came home. 

On the plus side, they seem much better and a little more at ease at home. They still don't want to talk to me, and in light of recent events, they're off the hook. I'd like to be able to talk with them again like I used to, but they just aren't interested.

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## dehro

this has more to do with them than with you.. maybe they're keeping their distance because they fear they migh treat you unfairly and lose you, if they don't.. or maybe it's something else.. this is one of those situations where you can't make the decision for them, other than being there should they decide to reopen communication

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## The Fury

> this has more to do with them than with you.. maybe they're keeping their distance because they fear they migh treat you unfairly and lose you, if they don't.. or maybe it's something else.. this is one of those situations where you can't make the decision for them, other than being there should they decide to reopen communication


Oh, it's definitely _not_ a decision that I can make for them. If they need me to keep my distance, that's what I'll do. It's isolating me though and there are fewer people that I can reach out to now. 

They _might_ decide to reopen communication, but they tend to get comfortable with situations and changing them can cause distress.

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## Grytorm

Well I am posting here again which can mean only ome thing. I am depressed. Or more depressed. Now much else to say really. I could whine about my life which isn't that bad. Or I could seek advice which I would most likely fail to follow through on.

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## sleepyhead

To put it bluntly I'm feeling sad about my Ma who died on my 18th birthday a few months ago. She was always my role model and after she passed I had to go live with my step-brother who I barely know. It's been hard and there's nothing I can do except sit around all day and try not to think of the future. I'm not comfortable with talking to my brother about this so here I am.

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## dehro

> To put it bluntly I'm feeling sad about my Ma who died on my 18th birthday a few months ago. She was always my role model and after she passed I had to go live with my step-brother who I barely know. It's been hard and there's nothing I can do except sit around all day and try not to think of the future. I'm not comfortable with talking to my brother about this so here I am.


did you share the same mother, or the same father instead? maybe he's just as uncomfortable.. I hope you will find a way to talk through your grief with him and others in your life..
until then, you did the right thing by reaching out to us.. 
if we can, we will try to help.

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## sleepyhead

> did you share the same mother, or the same father instead? maybe he's just as uncomfortable.. I hope you will find a way to talk through your grief with him and others in your life..
> until then, you did the right thing by reaching out to us.. 
> if we can, we will try to help.


My Ma was my adoptive mother. She adopted me (as well as 8 of my other siblings) after my Mom died when I was 4. So it's the same mother, kinda. I've never felt able to discuss this type of stuff with my family, even though I care about them all. 

 I once had a panic attack in front of my closest sibling while we were walking back from the store, what felt like nearly getting jumped, and then him yelling at me the whole walk home because I didn't listen to him sense he would have wanted to get stabbed rather then me (no one got stabbed). We ended up just sitting in some random backyard until I calmed down so the rest of our family wouldn't see me having a panic attack. The whole thing just felt awful and I really don't want people to see me exposed like that. I'm crying because I'm typing this all out so Ima stop for now.

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## Bartmanhomer

> My Ma was my adoptive mother. She adopted me (as well as 8 of my other siblings) after my Mom died when I was 4. So it's the same mother, kinda. I've never felt able to discuss this type of stuff with my family, even though I care about them all. 
> 
>  I once had a panic attack in front of my closest sibling while we were walking back from the store, what felt like nearly getting jumped, and then him yelling at me the whole walk home because I didn't listen to him sense he would have wanted to get stabbed rather then me (no one got stabbed). We ended up just sitting in some random backyard until I calmed down so the rest of our family wouldn't see me having a panic attack. The whole thing just felt awful and I really don't want people to see me exposed like that. I'm crying because I'm typing this all out so Ima stop for now.


I'm so sorry to hear that.  :Frown:

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## AvatarVecna

Three days ago I went to walmart cuz gotta get stuff, and had to use the restroom. Some dude comes out and does this awful hacking cough - no mask, no elbow, just into open air.

Yesterday, I was sick as a dog with the flu.

Today, I get to decide whether to get this tooth out that's been rotting in my skull for two weeks, or do the decent thing and cancel the appointment just in case I caught something other than the flu from that guy.

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## HalfTangible

Vecna, a dentist's office is going to be fully aware and more prepared for the danger of a virus that can spread by coughing than anywhere else on the planet. One of my family friends had a tooth infection that turned into a spinal infection (yes, really, don't ask me how this works, I'm not a doctor). See to your health.

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## Kesnit

This is really stupid, but I cant help it.

I was scheduled to cover a hearing* this morning at 8:30. Yesterday I got a notice from another court that the judge wanted to meet with me and the prosecutor at 8:30 about a jury trial set for next Tuesday. (Weve reached an agreement and the trial is off.) Obviously I cant be in two places at once and asked a coworker to cover the hearing. I met with the judge.

I got back from court this morning and found out my co-worker had forgotten to cover the hearing. The court called our office and the Office Manager grabbed another attorney to cover the hearing. He got there, the hearing happened, and the client was not adversely affected. However, the judge-of-the-almost-missed-hearing wants my boss (who is off today) to meet with him for a rear-end-chewing Tuesday.

I know I didnt mess up. I knew I needed coverage and made arrangements. My co-worker made the mistake. But I feel so guilty because it was supposed to be my hearing. As it turned out, the meeting with the judge was short enough I could have gotten to the other court before they called our office. (Of course, I would never have know I would need to go to the other court if they had not called my office...) 


* This was a routine hearing. Nothing specific to a client or that would require special information.

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## Grytorm

And a random thing two days ago set off my depression and anxiety. Really unfair to the person that set it off. They definitely knew at the time but I hope they don't remember now.

One change is that this time I have started to poorly write a song in my head about depression. And maybe worse stuff.

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## thethird

Hi I don't really know how to tackle this but right now I feel like a giddy teenager and it's weird.

TLDR: I am crushing on my neighbor*s*.

With the whole quarantine and lockdown going there has almost not been any movement in my social life recently. That is until the fire nation attacked my neighbors knocked on the door and asked for some eggs. We started talking, it was nice talking with someone new. I lend them the eggs, they got back with some mayo, nothing formal. 

I invited them over for drinks on the weekend, and we had a very long pre-lunch drinks (we started at 12ish, ended at 19ish), conversation was great and everything is nice. During the conversation I realize that I am flirting. I am flirting with both of them at the same time, in the same table. But it's fun. And everyone seems to be having fun. I manage to not worry too much. They ask me to borrow a pot (the kitchen utensil), to cook some dinner, and surely I lend them my pot. One of them gets it back the day after, along with an invitation for dinner a few days later. I get their numbers.

At that point in time my mind starts going crazy. Trying to understand what is going on. Do I feel attracted to them? We have been neighbors for a while, and haven't really interacted beyond a "hey" in the stairs, hadn't really looked at them. Are they attracted to me? Probably not, I didn't really push text conversation but it doesn't flow. I think it's just the lack of social interactions, making a good playful conversation seem like more.

We eventually get to the dinner. Fun times. Till five o'clock in the morning. There are a lot of drinking games and some raunchy conversation going but nothing gets beyond verbal. It is though stated, repeatedly, that they are single. Nothing really happens. Other than again, a very nice flirtatious conversation over drinks. I start to decide that at this point we are both in the same boat. Starved for social interactions and enjoying things as they happen. Being friends with your neighbors is fun.

The next night one of them comes to my apartment. For movies. She is getting into science fiction. And honestly I can geek about science fiction FOR DAYS. She seems to be fine with it. We watched gatacca, and 12 monkeys way into 3 o'clock in the morning. We are to repeat that soon(ish), btw I am apparently mentally reviewing all science fiction movies I have seen whenever I am in idle.

Things that worry me:
- I don't know if there is anything to screw (pun intended) but screwing the relationship with my neighbors sounds like a terrible idea.
- I am not certain if I want anything more than a nice conversation. It's just that I missed flirting a lot. But I am getting invested, and getting invested at this point in time doesn't seem sensible.
- The conversation with both of them is equally enticing for different reasons. Both of them are also attractive, and there is chemistry flowing. With one we are geeking over science fiction and psychology while with the other we are sharing a lot of recipes and singing old disney movies. Picking one over the other is hard, my brain is probably playing games at this point, but when I talk to one the other seems to get more talkative and viceversa.
- While it is both legal and socially acceptable the age gap (12-13 years) between us is sometimes off putting. I have actual proper memories from before they were born. That is an instant mood killer as my brain starts sabotaging me if it ever gets in my mind while talking.
- I am terrible when it comes to "go with the flow"... I can fake it. But my mind has probably (over)analized everything and then tried to act casual. While outwardly that might seem okay, to me it is stressful.

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## dehro

on one hand. I envy you.. on the other, I definitely don't.

I would say, keep doing what you've been doing so far and enjoy the confusion and the sensations of being alive.§
See if in another drinks and chat night the vibe remains the same... maybe double check if you're not' seeing what you want to see...
And maybe, at some stage, if you're still confused, and really want out of that confusion,

 consider having a conversation in the vein of "I realised that I've sort of had a bit of flirty banter going with you both, in my ineffectual/unthinking way...and I hope that hasn't made it awkward...but also, we're all single so if I'm reading this wrong and either of you feels like flirting back, feel free to point it out to me..with a cudgel. Whereas, if the idea does not appeal to you, it will definitely tell me where we stand and I will cut it out so we can go back to having friendly fun with a dash of innocent banter, like we've done until now, but at least there won't be any embarrassing faux passes on my end"

or something to that effect

be cautious though... it could be that their flirting also comes from a place of having been cooped up at home for too long..or maybe even that for some reason they don't consider you a "danger" and this allows them to be a bit more free in how they express themselves, but it doesn't mean they actually wan tthis to go anywhere... so... try to be objective about what you're seeing and hearing.

Edit: full disclosure.. I've been single since april last year, so..take my advice with a shovel full of salt..

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## Tvtyrant

> Hi I don't really know how to tackle this but right now I feel like a giddy teenager and it's weird.
> 
> TLDR: I am crushing on my neighbor*s*.
> 
> With the whole quarantine and lockdown going there has almost not been any movement in my social life recently. That is until the fire nation attacked my neighbors knocked on the door and asked for some eggs. We started talking, it was nice talking with someone new. I lend them the eggs, they got back with some mayo, nothing formal. 
> 
> I invited them over for drinks on the weekend, and we had a very long pre-lunch drinks (we started at 12ish, ended at 19ish), conversation was great and everything is nice. During the conversation I realize that I am flirting. I am flirting with both of them at the same time, in the same table. But it's fun. And everyone seems to be having fun. I manage to not worry too much. They ask me to borrow a pot (the kitchen utensil), to cook some dinner, and surely I lend them my pot. One of them gets it back the day after, along with an invitation for dinner a few days later. I get their numbers.
> 
> At that point in time my mind starts going crazy. Trying to understand what is going on. Do I feel attracted to them? We have been neighbors for a while, and haven't really interacted beyond a "hey" in the stairs, hadn't really looked at them. Are they attracted to me? Probably not, I didn't really push text conversation but it doesn't flow. I think it's just the lack of social interactions, making a good playful conversation seem like more.
> ...


I would try talking to them about it for sure. I don't think there's anything wrong with shacking up with any et all if people know what's on the docket, including a good chance that once the lockdown is over they or you lose interest and move on. I think talking directly instead of stressing about it will almost certainly be the easier and healthier thing to do.

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## thethird

Thanks for the feedback guys.




> on one hand. I envy you.. on the other, I definitely don't.


I totally understand that.




> [...]consider having a conversation in the vein of "I realised that I've sort of had a bit of flirty banter going with you both, in my ineffectual/unthinking way...and I hope that hasn't made it awkward...but also, we're all single so if I'm reading this wrong and either of you feels like flirting back, feel free to point it out to me..with a cudgel. Whereas, if the idea does not appeal to you, it will definitely tell me where we stand and I will cut it out so we can go back to having friendly fun with a dash of innocent banter, like we've done until now, but at least there won't be any embarrassing faux passes on my end"
> 
> or something to that effect
> 
> be cautious though... it could be that their flirting also comes from a place of having been cooped up at home for too long..or maybe even that for some reason they don't consider you a "danger" and this allows them to be a bit more free in how they express themselves, but it doesn't mean they actually wan tthis to go anywhere... so... try to be objective about what you're seeing and hearing.
> 
> Edit: full disclosure.. I've been single since april last year, so..take my advice with a shovel full of salt..





> I would try talking to them about it for sure. I don't think there's anything wrong with shacking up with any et all if people know what's on the docket, including a good chance that once the lockdown is over they or you lose interest and move on. I think talking directly instead of stressing about it will almost certainly be the easier and healthier thing to do.


I think both of your comments can be summed up to, talk to them about it, and be aware that it is possible that the same thing is happening to them at the same time. That seems sensible, and the piece of advice that I would give someone on that situation. So I shall follow it. We are having dinner tonight at my place, so it might come up (or I  might be able to make it come up). If it doesn't well, no need to rush it, we can see how it evolves and let it come up "organically".

They are also going to slightly relax the lockdown measure where I am at so I will be meeting again the girl with whom I went on a couple of dates last year. That will probably also bring some perspective to my mind.

Edit: My flatmate spent the night with one of them. Hey that helps narrow it down A LOT (although in all honesty while not jealous I am a little envious, but hey, all props to my flatmate).

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## Tvtyrant

> Thanks for the feedback guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hurray! Now you know which one isn't available! A one on one is a lot easier.




On a totally unrelated topic: My sister and her husband are moving to another state. Which is great, Oregon is pretty abysmal right now. But I have been helping watch their kids for 13 years, and the younger one 5 days a week for his entire life. I'm not sure what to do with that hole in my life, I feel like I have so little going on.

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## thethird

> Hurray! Now you know which one isn't available! A one on one is a lot easier.


I also had a deep and meaningful conversation with my flatmate, in which we admitted that we think of each other as very close friends to the point of being family and having absolute trust. And getting that out of our chests was to me the sweetest outcome. Knowing that I can stablish those strong and meaningful relationships is important to me. 




> On a totally unrelated topic: My sister and her husband are moving to another state. Which is great, Oregon is pretty abysmal right now. But I have been helping watch their kids for 13 years, and the younger one 5 days a week for his entire life. I'm not sure what to do with that hole in my life, I feel like I have so little going on.


That... That hole sounds dreadful. Are you otherwise alone? I would consider adopting an animal (a puppy, a kitty) or something. It will give you something/someone to care about (while not being the same it's readily available). It will also be a conversation starter with your nephews over Skype (do use the modern tools). Also if time permits do visit, don't cope up and stay away.

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## Tvtyrant

> I also had a deep and meaningful conversation with my flatmate, in which we admitted that we think of each other as very close friends to the point of being family and having absolute trust. And getting that out of our chests was to me the sweetest outcome. Knowing that I can stablish those strong and meaningful relationships is important to me. 
> 
> 
> 
> That... That hole sounds dreadful. Are you otherwise alone? I would consider adopting an animal (a puppy, a kitty) or something. It will give you something/someone to care about (while not being the same it's readily available). It will also be a conversation starter with your nephews over Skype (do use the modern tools). Also if time permits do visit, don't cope up and stay away.


Hurray! That's really excellent, even if nothing else happens you got that moment :)



No I still/again live with my parents. I just don't enjoy life very much at the best of times, and the last few years has seen pretty much what was left dwindle away. Spending time with my nephews was one of the few things I actually enjoyed on a daily basis, that didn't just feel like I was filling time.

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## thethird

> No I still/again live with my parents. I just don't enjoy life very much at the best of times, and the last few years has seen pretty much what was left dwindle away. Spending time with my nephews was one of the few things I actually enjoyed on a daily basis, that didn't just feel like I was filling time.


I have been in a similar mind space, that's the main reason why I don't live alone (by choice). Going out more is complicated, and you should try to get things in your life that you enjoy. I am sure you are doing that, to be honest, and that me saying this is not going to be new. Still, try to take it easy on yourself. Surround yourself with as many positive influences as you can, your parents might be doing that for you, but consider if you can have more. It's probably not going to be easy, and take some effort on your end. But you can do it. (note that this advice is coming from someone flirting with his neighbors, whose comfort zone is far away from saying hi on an elevator) I honestly would also consider a pet, if it's something your parents will be okay with having at their home.

On another note. Today my neighbor came to get some stuff she (conveniently) forgot last saturday and I invited her out to the farm's market in our town next saturday. She accepted. While it's not explicitly a date, we are going to buy stuff, since we both like cooking. And hopefully we can buy it then cook it together, and have lunch. Both my flatmates said that they will disappear, but I don't know if she will bring someone along, I wouldn't mind (but it would be nice for it to be just the two of us)

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## Tvtyrant

> I have been in a similar mind space, that's the main reason why I don't live alone (by choice). Going out more is complicated, and you should try to get things in your life that you enjoy. I am sure you are doing that, to be honest, and that me saying this is not going to be new. Still, try to take it easy on yourself. Surround yourself with as many positive influences as you can, your parents might be doing that for you, but consider if you can have more. It's probably not going to be easy, and take some effort on your end. But you can do it. (note that this advice is coming from someone flirting with his neighbors, whose comfort zone is far away from saying hi on an elevator) I honestly would also consider a pet, if it's something your parents will be okay with having at their home.
> 
> On another note. Today my neighbor came to get some stuff she (conveniently) forgot last saturday and I invited her out to the farm's market in our town next saturday. She accepted. While it's not explicitly a date, we are going to buy stuff, since we both like cooking. And hopefully we can buy it then cook it together, and have lunch. Both my flatmates said that they will disappear, but I don't know if she will bring someone along, I wouldn't mind (but it would be nice for it to be just the two of us)


My dog died in November, so that cut off that avenue and they aren't keen on me getting a new one. I wouldn't say they are a good influence as far as positivity, just necessary with my job paying what it does and the economy trapping me in it. Covid changed my lifestyle from spending 90% of my waking hours in public to 99% locked at home, it's slowly grinding me down haha.

Yay! Let us know how it goes.

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## Lacco

> No I still/again live with my parents. I just don't enjoy life very much at the best of times, and the last few years has seen pretty much what was left dwindle away. Spending time with my nephews was one of the few things I actually enjoyed on a daily basis, that didn't just feel like I was filling time.


First: I am sorry to hear that. Even if it's not a complete loss, it's still a loss and while I'm not usually a good choice for sympathy, if there will be any way I can help, I'll be glad to help - in any area of life.

That said, your last sentence sounds like a good start where to change things - because if stuff on daily basis feels just like filling time, there's something different you need to do. Since you stated spending time with your nephews felt worthwhile, maybe you could focus on finding other avenues where your nature would be of use - after all, many people are now struggling with their children and time.

You should definitely take a look at what you actually enjoy and what can you do with it. How did you spend time with your nephews?

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## Tvtyrant

> First: I am sorry to hear that. Even if it's not a complete loss, it's still a loss and while I'm not usually a good choice for sympathy, if there will be any way I can help, I'll be glad to help - in any area of life.
> 
> That said, your last sentence sounds like a good start where to change things - because if stuff on daily basis feels just like filling time, there's something different you need to do. Since you stated spending time with your nephews felt worthwhile, maybe you could focus on finding other avenues where your nature would be of use - after all, many people are now struggling with their children and time.
> 
> You should definitely take a look at what you actually enjoy and what can you do with it. How did you spend time with your nephews?


It's ok. I wrote some poetry about it and cried a lot, it just added a kind of pervasive melancholy to life I can't seem to shake off. 

I'm also starting to feel like there is a really toxic strain in my family, my brother told me I look like a turtle yesterday. 

To the last sentence: Just normal stuff. I play sports with them, pretend to be a frog, wrestle, read them books, talk to them about their feelings. It's really amazing learning how many thoughts the 3 year old has that he lacks the words for and other adults are too impatient to listen to him.

Second sentence: I literally don't know anymore. I liked board games (cancelled), the gym (cancelled), going out into the woods with friends (cancelled), reading (enjoyment killed by graduate school), and writing (enjoyment REALLY killed by graduate school.) I had playing with my dog and playing with my nephews, and first one and then the other are gone.

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## Lacco

> It's ok. I wrote some poetry about it and cried a lot, it just added a kind of pervasive melancholy to life I can't seem to shake off.


Proper grieving is often frowned upon although it helps a lot to deal with the loss. There is however one thing to watch out: grieving has to end at certain point. Take your time to come to terms with the loss, but make sure you have a source of positive energy that will enable you to stop it when you are ready to move on and take a decision.

Question: what 




> I'm also starting to feel like there is a really toxic strain in my family, my brother told me I look like a turtle yesterday.


While there's nothing wrong with the chelonian look, I'd ask what exactly did he mean.

However, close family members can do most harm with statements like these. My sister-in-law, despite her great looks, never wears skirt only due to the fact her mother told her - on multiple ocassions - she had legs like a goat. And it took me years to persuade my wife to work over the things her mother told her too.

I have no advice to things like these other than this: find out what they mean. If they mean well (e.g. it's meant to start a joke war about each others' looks) but you are not in the mood, they need to know. We used to joke with my sister like this, but anytime one of us started to feel insecure, the other one immediately stopped and went for damage control, because we genuinely cared about each other. If they mean well, but they just fumbled their speech roll, discuss - maybe he wants actually to suggest an improvement (e.g. different clothes style/hair style).

If they do not mean well, or don't stop after you ask them to, abort. Don't punish them, just stop talking to them and disregard anything they say. They are your family, but that does not mean they tell you only truth.




> To the last sentence: Just normal stuff. I play sports with them, pretend to be a frog, wrestle, read them books, talk to them about their feelings. It's really amazing learning how many thoughts the 3 year old has that he lacks the words for and other adults are too impatient to listen to him.


Having a 3 year old son myself, I agree. I am oftentimes surprised by the things he says and how he thinks.

That said, have you thought about working with kids? You seem like you enjoy it a lot. Are there any programs you could enroll in (e.g. I know some orphanages accept help from "temporary brothers/sisters" - you are assigned a kid you spend your time with, or even a group of them)? Even in current atmosphere, you could help a lot of kids.




> Second sentence: I literally don't know anymore. I liked board games (cancelled), the gym (cancelled), going out into the woods with friends (cancelled), reading (enjoyment killed by graduate school), and writing (enjoyment REALLY killed by graduate school.) I had playing with my dog and playing with my nephews, and first one and then the other are gone.


Heh. I know what you mean about reading & writing.

Again: not cancelled. Either temporary suspended or transformed. You can still play board games with people (online). Gym is something I actually never enjoyed, but my HEMA practice is also suspended - which is good, because I can work out at home and come back at least with semblance of fitness as opposed past years where I failed physically  :Small Red Face: . Going out into the woods is allowed here - you just have to meet in the woods, instead of on the way there - but I'd like to know what you mean under it.

Have you tried playing board games over webcam with friends?

And if you had to name 3 things you wanted to do, but never had time to actually do - home edition - let's say start some personal project - what would those things be?

My sister is a teacher. Her son is a first grader. She was one of the first teachers here who not only started to teach online, but also persuaded the parents to leave the webcam and laptop in their kids' room while the kids play so they can play together. It's not really "together" - but the kids enjoy it a lot. So maybe you should give it a try - it's not going to replace the real life board gaming, but it's a good temporary replacement. Also: things like snail mail games, RPG projects that were suspended because you had no time... you now have the time. How would you like to spend it?

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## Grytorm

Ah hello again. I volunteer at a place and sixteen days ago a conversation occurred which I have been overreacting to ever since. It was a perfectly reasonable request from a staff member to not go back into certain areas just to talk. Unfortunately though I reacted to this poorly, she did recognize that I seemed to be taking it too seriously and unfortunately I expressed some of my problems with anxiety and self loathing. I've been dealing with a lot of nasty depression stuff since then (which is tapering off) and unfortunately my time volunteering which is one of my main opportunities to be social is somewhat muted. Hopefully I will get over it. One part of me wants to try bringing it up with the staff member but that would be unfair to her and I don't even know if she would remember it. 

This unfortunately ties into one of the major stupidities I grapple with. I loathe actually admitting my problems to most of the people who care about me especially anyone who is close enough to help.

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## The Fury

The last few months have been rough. I kept thinking that it would get better but it hasn't. I'd like to do things like share movies, shows, comics and games with the people I live with, but I've been asked to _not_ do that. It hurts, but I get it.

*Spoiler: CW: suicide and mental health discussion*
Show

One of my roommates was suicidal in December. Then they had an encounter with their mother who has a history of being emotionally abusive. As you can imagine this made things worse. They've since been diagnosed with BPD and have started therapy, which is good. 

I'm also always tired, depressed and generally upset from work. The same roommate has said that they pick up on my emotions and it makes their anxiety worse, so I make it a point to deliberately avoid them. This sort of has the side effect of only directly interacting with another person at work. Our apartment is kind of small, so the only way I can give them the space they need is to pretty much hide in my room whenever I'm home. I think it's helping them, but I feel isolated and lonely.


It's rough. I really want to connect with someone over something, I get that I'm not owed that by anyone. I get that people not wanting that from me is fine. I still want it.

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## Tvtyrant

> The last few months have been rough. I kept thinking that it would get better but it hasn't. I'd like to do things like share movies, shows, comics and games with the people I live with, but I've been asked to _not_ do that. It hurts, but I get it.
> 
> *Spoiler: CW: suicide and mental health discussion*
> Show
> 
> One of my roommates was suicidal in December. Then they had an encounter with their mother who has a history of being emotionally abusive. As you can imagine this made things worse. They've since been diagnosed with BPD and have started therapy, which is good. 
> 
> I'm also always tired, depressed and generally upset from work. The same roommate has said that they pick up on my emotions and it makes their anxiety worse, so I make it a point to deliberately avoid them. This sort of has the side effect of only directly interacting with another person at work. Our apartment is kind of small, so the only way I can give them the space they need is to pretty much hide in my room whenever I'm home. I think it's helping them, but I feel isolated and lonely.
> 
> ...


Completely understandable on your part. Having emotional needs is normal, it sounds like your roommate just has too many needs themselves to be able to provide you with succor. I know it is not the same at all, but you could try online meetups to meet some new people.

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## dehro

> The last few months have been rough. I kept thinking that it would get better but it hasn't. I'd like to do things like share movies, shows, comics and games with the people I live with, but I've been asked to _not_ do that. It hurts, but I get it.
> 
> *Spoiler: CW: suicide and mental health discussion*
> Show
> 
> One of my roommates was suicidal in December. Then they had an encounter with their mother who has a history of being emotionally abusive. As you can imagine this made things worse. They've since been diagnosed with BPD and have started therapy, which is good. 
> 
> I'm also always tired, depressed and generally upset from work. The same roommate has said that they pick up on my emotions and it makes their anxiety worse, so I make it a point to deliberately avoid them. This sort of has the side effect of only directly interacting with another person at work. Our apartment is kind of small, so the only way I can give them the space they need is to pretty much hide in my room whenever I'm home. I think it's helping them, but I feel isolated and lonely.
> 
> ...


is this self isolation from them your idea or the result of an agreement? if it's the former, I would suggest talking with them about it...telling them you've tried to isolate from them in order to help reduce their stress, asking if it worked, and then sharing that it's having the opposite effect on you, and try to see if a middle ground can be reached, some sort of unobtrusive method of communication to clarify when it's a good day and there's a chance to hang out/catch up, watch something together. It's admirable that you're helping them, it's not out of order for you to ask them to reciprocate if and how they can.

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## Tvtyrant

> Proper grieving is often frowned upon although it helps a lot to deal with the loss. There is however one thing to watch out: grieving has to end at certain point. Take your time to come to terms with the loss, but make sure you have a source of positive energy that will enable you to stop it when you are ready to move on and take a decision.
> 
> Question: what 
> 
> 
> 
> While there's nothing wrong with the chelonian look, I'd ask what exactly did he mean.
> 
> However, close family members can do most harm with statements like these. My sister-in-law, despite her great looks, never wears skirt only due to the fact her mother told her - on multiple ocassions - she had legs like a goat. And it took me years to persuade my wife to work over the things her mother told her too.
> ...


I don't think about him that much, I just have had this relentless fatigue and sense of isolation since he left. I'm doing a bit better now, I got a cpap machine and am taking a B12 complex which has helped a lot with energy but life just seems kind of pointless.

My family are all very overweight, I have been losing weight for a long time and don't have the neckless look anymore, but I also have large traps so now my neck looks kind of small. Also he said "you can only tell it's a neck because of your veins" which felt deliberately hurtful to be honest.

I was voted most likely to be a kindergarten teacher in high school, which annoyed me so much I steered anywhere else haha. I've never worked with children outside my family, I feel like the fear of being seen as inappropriate would kill my enthusiasm.

I do play some board games by webcam, but it doesn't feel the same. I'm on the phone for work all the time, so that's part of the hangup there. My friends are also kind of needy, so I end up on the phone with them a lot before I burn out and kick them all out and then they slowly trickle back on haha.

Personal projects: I would really like to learn spanish is a good one. I'm pretty focused on weight loss right now, which is my primary hobby at the moment and is kind of exhausting.

Sorry for the lateness of my reply btw, I really appreciate the input!

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## druid91

> Vecna, a dentist's office is going to be fully aware and more prepared for the danger of a virus that can spread by coughing than anywhere else on the planet. One of my family friends had a tooth infection that turned into a spinal infection (yes, really, don't ask me how this works, I'm not a doctor). See to your health.


This is a little late, and I'm definitely a layman, but the roots of your upper teeth are *really* close to the space inside your head your brain sits in. It's super easy for an infection to make that jump from there to your brain and that's bad news. I'd guess that the same could be said of your lower jaw, if the infection travels through there to your spine.

Source: I had no dental insurance for a few years and became paranoid as heck after a tooth broke and became infected/abscessed. The infection is no joke and is nothing to mess around with.

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## thethird

> Three days ago I went to walmart cuz gotta get stuff, and had to use the restroom. Some dude comes out and does this awful hacking cough - no mask, no elbow, just into open air.
> 
> Yesterday, I was sick as a dog with the flu.
> 
> Today, I get to decide whether to get this tooth out that's been rotting in my skull for two weeks, or do the decent thing and cancel the appointment just in case I caught something other than the flu from that guy.


I had to go to the dentist during the whole pandemic thingie, apparently you can kill most (if not all) possible particles by using mouthwash. It came up at some point with my dentist.

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## The Fury

Thanks for your advice, you guys. It's been a little touch and go when I'm actually able to reply, so sorry about that. I swear I'm not ignoring you. 




> Completely understandable on your part. Having emotional needs is normal, it sounds like your roommate just has too many needs themselves to be able to provide you with succor. I know it is not the same at all, but you could try online meetups to meet some new people.


I have been meeting up with people online. Admittedly, it's not the same but it does help.




> is this self isolation from them your idea or the result of an agreement? if it's the former, I would suggest talking with them about it...telling them you've tried to isolate from them in order to help reduce their stress, asking if it worked, and then sharing that it's having the opposite effect on you, and try to see if a middle ground can be reached, some sort of unobtrusive method of communication to clarify when it's a good day and there's a chance to hang out/catch up, watch something together. It's admirable that you're helping them, it's not out of order for you to ask them to reciprocate if and how they can.


It's... more like it's something that appears to help. They barely talk at all when I'm around, but I hear them get very talkative when I leave the room. They also say that I'm very passive aggressive, so I don't think I'll get a reply to a question like, "Does staying away from you help your anxiety?"

They've said before that they can feel my anger and it scares them. So honestly the whole isolation thing is the only thing I could think of that helps.

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## dehro

> It's... more like it's something that appears to help. They barely talk at all when I'm around, but I hear them get very talkative when I leave the room. They also say that I'm very passive aggressive, so I don't think I'll get a reply to a question like, "Does staying away from you help your anxiety?"
> 
> They've said before that they can feel my anger and it scares them. So honestly the whole isolation thing is the only thing I could think of that helps.


maybe worth checking in with them to have this conversation with them... and letting them know that what you are doing for their benefit does come at a cost for you, and that you need some level of interaction for the benefit of your own mental health. if you fear that the conversation would derail due to perceptions, passive aggression or other communication issues, have a third party there, a calming influence, so to speak. keep the conversation as light as possible whilst still driving home the point. your own mental health is something worth standing up for.

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## The Fury

> maybe worth checking in with them to have this conversation with them... and letting them know that what you are doing for their benefit does come at a cost for you, and that you need some level of interaction for the benefit of your own mental health. if you fear that the conversation would derail due to perceptions, passive aggression or other communication issues, have a third party there, a calming influence, so to speak. keep the conversation as light as possible whilst still driving home the point. your own mental health is something worth standing up for.


It did sort of come up last time we talked. Unfortunately I couldn't really spit out what's been bothering me because I'm bad at talking. At the time I chalked it up to them losing interest and moving on, but I can see how that's actually unfair. I think it's kinder and more accurate to interpret them wanting to tell me the right thing so I can go back to not needing anything from them. They mean well, I'm sure.

Both my roommates decided to go on vacation though, so it's not something I'll get another chance with for a while.

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## Bartmanhomer

Hey everyone. I'm sad at the moment because a female friend and her niece got tested positive for COVID which she told me on the phone today.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

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## Lissou

Hey, sorry to hear that. A coworker's daughter tested positive, andsometimes it makes me feel like we've made no progress, but that's not true. We're getting vaccinations done. Less people are dying. Yes, people will continue to test positive, and hopefully they will recover, but little by little we're going towards the exit.

I have no idea if that's helpful to anyone else, but it helps me, thinking that while things are sucky right now still, we're going in the right direction and hopefully within a year enough people will be vaccinated that hugs can happen again. I miss hugs.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Hey, sorry to hear that. A coworker's daughter tested positive, andsometimes it makes me feel like we've made no progress, but that's not true. We're getting vaccinations done. Less people are dying. Yes, people will continue to test positive, and hopefully they will recover, but little by little we're going towards the exit.
> 
> I have no idea if that's helpful to anyone else, but it helps me, thinking that while things are sucky right now still, we're going in the right direction and hopefully within a year enough people will be vaccinated that hugs can happen again. I miss hugs.


I mention this on the Random Banter yesterday:

I got wonderful news to tell you. I was talking to my friend on the phone today! My friend and her niece no longer got COVID. Their 10 days are up. They beat COVID! I'm so happy!  :Biggrin:

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## Taevyr

First time posting in someplace like this, but I need to get some stuff of my chest, this has been a great forum in the time I've spent here, and covid sucks for having a good heart-to-heart with friends.

My girlfriend broke up with me about two months past - partially corona-induced stress and lack of actually seeing each other, which combined with stress from fallout with a very close friend of hers and stress over my problems, mainly depression and general troubles of being with someone who's autistic - but we managed to do so relatively amicably. It's clear that she still cares for me (and vice versa), but that she just had too much on her plate, and with my own lack of moving forward in any way since corona she just felt trapped. I can't blame her: I'd rather she cut me loose than let herself be dragged down with/by me, and had told her so before.

But now.... on one hand, I still want to support her when necessary, and she told me she still wants to be there for me, and it's clear she tries to do so in the few cases she can. On the other, we both realize that that isn't any way to move on, so we try not to contact each other unless its really important. But it's.... hard. We have a pretty close common group of friends, which doesn't help in keeping some distance, and I don't want to lean too much on them for my support 'cause I don't want to drag her into it again that way. But they're also one of two groups of friends I have where I can actually air out my troubles for a moment, and it's a tough balance to keep. Add to that that I can't help worrying over how she's doing, and how I every-so-often hear from said common friends when she's having trouble, and I just get torn between wanting to help and knowing that it's better not to, since it'll just reopen the fresh wounds from the breakup. 

It's just driving me slightly crazy. It'd be easier if one of could be an *******, but that wouldn't be right either. Distancing myself from her would probably be for the best, for both of us to heal, but I'm having a real hard time doing so.

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## dehro

> First time posting in someplace like this, but I need to get some stuff of my chest, this has been a great forum in the time I've spent here, and covid sucks for having a good heart-to-heart with friends.
> 
> My girlfriend broke up with me about two months past - partially corona-induced stress and lack of actually seeing each other, which combined with stress from fallout with a very close friend of hers and stress over my problems, mainly depression and general troubles of being with someone who's autistic - but we managed to do so relatively amicably. It's clear that she still cares for me (and vice versa), but that she just had too much on her plate, and with my own lack of moving forward in any way since corona she just felt trapped. I can't blame her: I'd rather she cut me loose than let herself be dragged down with/by me, and had told her so before.
> 
> But now.... on one hand, I still want to support her when necessary, and she told me she still wants to be there for me, and it's clear she tries to do so in the few cases she can. On the other, we both realize that that isn't any way to move on, so we try not to contact each other unless its really important. But it's.... hard. We have a pretty close common group of friends, which doesn't help in keeping some distance, and I don't want to lean too much on them for my support 'cause I don't want to drag her into it again that way. But they're also one of two groups of friends I have where I can actually air out my troubles for a moment, and it's a tough balance to keep. Add to that that I can't help worrying over how she's doing, and how I every-so-often hear from said common friends when she's having trouble, and I just get torn between wanting to help and knowing that it's better not to, since it'll just reopen the fresh wounds from the breakup. 
> 
> It's just driving me slightly crazy. It'd be easier if one of could be an *******, but that wouldn't be right either. Distancing myself from her would probably be for the best, for both of us to heal, but I'm having a real hard time doing so.


I've gone through your experience a little less than a year ago.. covid, long distance, my own issues, the need for her to be free to be her best self and continue to grow, me agreeing that there was no way for me to help her in that and that I was holding her back and didn't want to do that..
we parted amicably, and stayed in touch for a while.. but then it became too hard, somewhat painful and resentment crept in.. mind you..we still haven't met since then because of covid and really long distance.. so there hasn't been any real closure.. but yeah.. I feel your situation even though I don't have the complication of being on the spectrum... 
you are not alone and eventually it does get better.
if you have many friends in common, it is only fair that you do rely on at least some of them for moral and emotional support.. if they are true friends they will stay that.. if they feel like they have to pick a side, they will do that, but not all of them will... and not all of them will side with her.
give them a chance to be there for you.

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## Taevyr

> I've gone through your experience a little less than a year ago.. covid, long distance, my own issues, the need for her to be free to be her best self and continue to grow, me agreeing that there was no way for me to help her in that and that I was holding her back and didn't want to do that..
> we parted amicably, and stayed in touch for a while.. but then it became too hard, somewhat painful and resentment crept in.. mind you..we still haven't met since then because of covid and really long distance.. so there hasn't been any real closure.. but yeah.. I feel your situation even though I don't have the complication of being on the spectrum... 
> you are not alone and eventually it does get better.
> if you have many friends in common, it is only fair that you do rely on at least some of them for moral and emotional support.. if they are true friends they will stay that.. if they feel like they have to pick a side, they will do that, but not all of them will... and not all of them will side with her.
> give them a chance to be there for you.


Luckily, we both agreed that the last thing we want is to sunder our common friend group, but she does seem to take it slightly personally when I reach out for support, at least where she can see, with having a common chat group and such. She mentioned it in our last conversation several days ago: I made it clear I wasn't trying to guilt her or anything, but I'm not going to ignore the help my friends can bring, or the fact that they themselves want to be there for me, or likely both of us. She seemed to understand, but I'm still hesitant as I don't want to add to her stress.

And I am quite happy I didn't lose either of my usual friend groups over the course of the relationship, not that they were ever really at risk: I've got a decent base of support I can make use of, when needed, but covid complicates it, and gradually going from living together at least 2-3 days each week to hardly ever seeing anyone on an average day has been challenging, to say the least. I've certainly gained a deeper understanding of why many single people keep a pet at home: the lack of physical contact is quite draining.

Motivationally, it's been a bit of a double-edged sword: on one hand, her breaking up with me has been quite a wake-up call that I _really_ need to pick up my slack; On the other, she was a big drive for me to better myself for a long while, until covid eventually reached into the ol' depression succesfully, and part of me can't help but wonder "what's it for" anymore, even if I still have a decent life; Getting off of the rollercoaster between those two would be a nice change.

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## Yora

I got a question:

I have ADD and I'm amazingly efficient at avoiding responsibilities by letting them lie one one more. I'm entitled to unemployment benefits since September, finally managed to fill out the forms in February, and realized two weeks ago that the deadline for each months is not the end of the month but the 15th. And today I finally managed to get myself to send the last forms that were still missing for my application with only two more days until the April deadline. That kind of efficient.

I finally made myself find out what happens next after filling out the form to discover I had set my online account at the unemployment office to only send all notifications by mail, which forced me to finally check my mailbox which I had been avoiding for the last half year. It was of course bursting, but thankfully most was only junk, though I also had a debt enforcement notice from the customs service (which deals with such things here) for outstanding fees for late insurance payments, which was already four weeks old. Fortunately it was only 50, which I was able to pay immediately, but this could have easily been something so much worse.

*The Specific Question:* Now while I was getting myself ready to face the inevitable disaster that I had been avoiding for six months (during which I was constantly aware it was only getting worse each day I kept delaying), I was feeling really queasy. Wobbly legs, changed breathing and narrowed vision, hot face. But I didn't feel scared, and actually was surprised at myself for not coming up with rationalizing why I could delay it for another couple of hours. (And I managed to work myself through the whole pile.) But still, that reaction is very much not normal, and it had me very much think of a panic attack. (Which to my knowledge, I never had before.)
Do panic attacks always have to feel frightening? Or would that have been something else?

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## Hyoi

"Panic attack" is a psychological and/or medical term for something than can have bunch of different types and causes. You'd have to ask a medical/psychological professional if you want to know if what you experienced can be considered one.

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## dehro

not sure this is a workable idea, but you could propose a mutual mental health check... 
where you open up about where your mind is at, what your thoughts and worries are and try to assess if you're feeling well/healthy/sane/positive..
and ask for a feedback from her..to see if she agrees with your assessment..

once you've done that, she would do the same, and you could give her feedback... if then issues occur to her, you can elaborate on those, and if they don't, you can point out the few signals you're noticing.

doing that routinely could lay the foundation of a more in depth conversation about whether your current state or hers, would warrant talking to a third party, as a double check/way to solve specific issues.

it would of course need to be wrapped up in a non threatening/insulting manner.. but if you're offering to open up first, this might soften the approach.

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## 3SecondCultist

This isnt my first time posting here, but I feel like sharing an update about my life and how I feel about things. No need to comment if you dont want to, this is more about me getting things out in a place free from judgment.

*Spoiler: Warning: May contain traces of self-pity*
Show

Nearly two years ago (August 2019), I moved from Canada to the UK. I had taken a job as a teacher in an academically renowned school right out of my graduate programme, and I thought that I would get a chance to travel and meet new people. It sounds incredibly cliche, but I wanted to put some miles on my soul. When I left, my family was undergoing a strange metamorphosis. My parents - who split up years ago and both had new partners - were on the path to reconciliation and were friends again. My half brother on my dads side had turned 1 a few months before. My dog - who I essentially raised from a puppy in my teens - had turned 10 and was entering her twilight years. One of my best friends in the world was engaged to be married; I had saved the date for summer of 2020.

When I started my job in September 2019, I realized right away just how demanding it was going to be. They tell you that teaching is one of those professions thats exceptionally hard in the first 2 years, because you have to get used to the workload and you havent build up your own compendium of resources that you feel comfortable teaching yet. Making your own lesson plans and working on a curriculum can be really daunting at first, and the school I had chosen to work at had very high expectations for teachers. If you arent in by 7:00 and out later than 6:00 in your first year, then youre going to fall behind. Obviously there are more demanding jobs out there (Im not going to pretend that teaching doesnt have benefits) but the workplace culture took me by surprise.

Slight digression: I suspect a big part of the shock was the combination of new workplace with just new culture in general. Being Canadian in the UK meant that I generally had to suppress my emotions and work like a drone just like everyone else around me. Thats just how professionals do it in this country - keep calm and carry on.

But that was okay, because I met someone, another Canadian. This person was kind, brutally intelligent (smarter than me for sure), amazingly beautiful, and she always made me smile. Like me, she had come over from Canada to work as a teacher in the UK. We did a little dance around each other at work for maybe a month before getting together on a wild night out and decided after a whirlwind trip to Hungary for a week that we would give it a real shot. And this was endgame stuff: we clicked on everything, had amazing chemistry on every level, and for a while I was unbelievably happy with her. Things were looking great.

Fast forward to March 2020... do I even need to say it? Covid 19 played merry hell on my life. At the risk of getting into politics, the UK did not handle the pandemic particularly well. Quarantine nearly cost us our relationship as my partner and I were separated and started fighting all of the time on the phone. I had booked a flight home for Easter to see everyone, which got cancelled. I was depressed, gained weight, and ended up contracting Covid myself.

However things did not stop there; I had deep vein thrombosis in my leg, and the blood clots soon moved up into both of my lungs. I would wake up unable to walk, barely able to breathe without pain. This eventually landed me in the hospital for about a week (May 2020). My partner was super supportive, but something in me turned bitter. The doctors told me that I had unprovoked pulmonary embolisms in both lungs, and the long term prognosis wasnt great. I should expect lower quality of life, and as I grew older the risk of recurring blood clots in the lungs would increase. I also had a shortened life expectancy now.

This episode was the beginning of the end of my relationship. Summer was alright - we were able to travel to Scotland, which was absolutely beautiful - but otherwise I was pretty miserable and sick of pretending not to be for her sake. She was tired of holding me up, and I resented her for being healthy. Meanwhile at home, things were happening quickly. My dog died a few months ago and I barely got to say goodbye (I would have if Id been home last Easter). My friend got married in a small ceremony, his big splashy wedding postponed. I was supposed to watch it online, but my internet was acting up so I missed it. My brother had turned 3 - Im terrified that he has forgotten how to say my name.

So my partner and I broke up. More accurately, I pushed her away. The way I did it was cruel, without warning or provocation. I wont share details because its not all worth getting into and I dont think I could look myself in the mirror if I wrote it all down. But make no mistake, this was a person with whom I had discussed building a future when we got home, and I dashed it all to pieces in less than a week.

Fast forward to now. I live alone with people I despise (the less said about my roommates the better). I speak to nobody at work; at the end of the day, I go home alone and angry and guilty because I know its my fault that I havent spoken to my family but I cant face any of them now. My mood oscillates between seething rage that I have wasted two years of my life and pretty bleak depression as I wonder what the point of all of this was. On the weekends, I dont speak to anyone. My closest friends are hundreds of kilometres and four time zones away. I will return to a world that I do not recognize and has in many ways moved on without me, and I will have no stories of my own that I care to share.

And yes, I know that there are plenty of people who have it worse than me. I know that I must sound like a whiny child, complaining about my little problems. The pandemic has impacted everyone in some way. If anything, that makes it worse; who the f*ck am I to complain about my life? How presumptuous am I, for doing that? To assume that my problems matter, or that I should not blame myself for the majority of them?

In all honesty, I would have done something more drastic a long time ago if I didnt think that a permanent ending would be too quick for someone like me.

Again, there is no obligation to comment. Just because something needs to be said does not mean it needs to be heard.

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## 2D8HP

Spoke to a divorce lawyer on Monday, mentioned that to my brother and by Wednesday a lovely lady invited me to be her roommate, and another lady is very clearly auditioning to be my girlfriend. It seems that while I thought I was average looking 22 year-old I'm a great looking 52 year-old. 

I'm still dithering, if I leave my wife it would be in July or August so I may truthfully say "We were together for 29 years", which I want to be able to do for silly pride reasons. 

I was surprised how much the invitation to live in San Francisco improved my mood, motorcycling inside the city to go to work instead of driving across the bridge has a lot of appeal.

More than I little guilt about leaving the kids, if I was a better man than I could forgive my wife and accept the status quo, sadly I'm not and the waves of crying and flashes of anger I have had show that.

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## Tarmor

2D8: Best wishes with what is and will continue to be a difficult situation for some time at least. Marriage isn't always what its meant to be, and good on you for both trying to improve yours, and now considering other options. 

I'm a similar age, I married later than you and my marriage after some initial struggles is fine. With what I've seen around with friends and relatives, I consider myself lucky. My brother is in a marriage in which he is regularly verbally abused (and doesn't seem to be loved), but won't leave (at least not at this time, because of his young children), and my sister is in the process of separating from her husband after perhaps spending half of it feeling she married the wrong person. 
It's hard to think about leaving, and to do it. I'm glad to hear you are finding some happiness amid all this. If you do go ahead with the move, I hope you have some way to keep contact with your 'kids'.

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## Tvtyrant

> Spoke to a divorce lawyer on Monday, mentioned that to my brother and by Wednesday a lovely lady invited me to be her roommate, and another lady is very clearly auditioning to be my girlfriend. It seems that while I thought I was average looking 22 year-old I'm a great looking 52 year-old. 
> 
> I'm still dithering, if I leave my wife it would be in July or August so I may truthfully say "We were together for 29 years", which I want to be able to do for silly pride reasons. 
> 
> I was surprised how much the invitation to live in San Francisco improved my mood, motorcycling inside the city to go to work instead of driving across the bridge has a lot of appeal.
> 
> More than I little guilt about leaving the kids, if I was a better man than I could forgive my wife and accept the status quo, sadly I'm not and the waves of crying and flashes of anger I have had show that.


You've had a hard year mate, I'm sorry it has gone down that way. It's important to remember that a bad relationship will sour the kid's lives too, and take most of your happiness out.

----------


## 2D8HP

> 2D8: Best wishes[...]






> You've had a hard year mate, I'm sorry it has gone down that way[...]



Thank you Tarmor and Tvtyrant, much appreciated.

----------


## Velaryon

My girlfriend and I just broke up (like, less than 2 hours ago) and I am hurting. I thought this was going to be the one that worked - that I had finally got my situation figured out and found the right woman to share it with. I didn't think we were going to imminently get engaged or anything, but I at least thought there was a good chance that that was in our futures. And once again I'm wrong, and left wondering why I can never seem to find anyone who loves me and thinks I'm worth the effort of trying. Just like every time before, I am left feeling like nobody loves me or _can_ love me in a romantic sense, and that there is something fundamentally wrong with me that everybody but me can see, and that the only people who will even give me a chance are people who just haven't figured out yet that I'm unlovable and worthless.

I could go into a lot more about specifics but I don't feel up to it right now. I'm just hurting and I want to scream.

----------


## Rydiro

> And once again I'm wrong, and left wondering why I can never seem to find anyone who loves me and thinks I'm worth the effort of trying. Just like every time before, I am left feeling like nobody loves me or _can_ love me in a romantic sense, and that there is something fundamentally wrong with me that everybody but me can see, and that the only people who will even give me a chance are people who just haven't figured out ...


What were the stated reasons for the breakup? Certainly not "You are fundamentally wrong"

----------


## phoenixdoll

> This isnt my first time posting here, but I feel like sharing an update about my life and how I feel about things. No need to comment if you dont want to, this is more about me getting things out in a place free from judgment.
> 
> *Spoiler: Warning: May contain traces of self-pity*
> Show
> 
> Nearly two years ago (August 2019), I moved from Canada to the UK. I had taken a job as a teacher in an academically renowned school right out of my graduate programme, and I thought that I would get a chance to travel and meet new people. It sounds incredibly cliche, but I wanted to put some miles on my soul. When I left, my family was undergoing a strange metamorphosis. My parents - who split up years ago and both had new partners - were on the path to reconciliation and were friends again. My half brother on my dads side had turned 1 a few months before. My dog - who I essentially raised from a puppy in my teens - had turned 10 and was entering her twilight years. One of my best friends in the world was engaged to be married; I had saved the date for summer of 2020.
> 
> When I started my job in September 2019, I realized right away just how demanding it was going to be. They tell you that teaching is one of those professions thats exceptionally hard in the first 2 years, because you have to get used to the workload and you havent build up your own compendium of resources that you feel comfortable teaching yet. Making your own lesson plans and working on a curriculum can be really daunting at first, and the school I had chosen to work at had very high expectations for teachers. If you arent in by 7:00 and out later than 6:00 in your first year, then youre going to fall behind. Obviously there are more demanding jobs out there (Im not going to pretend that teaching doesnt have benefits) but the workplace culture took me by surprise.
> 
> ...


I had to reply, even though the conversation has moved along a little.

It kinda sounds like you're trying to downplay a lot of what you're going through. 
Why? Everyone has their problems, sure, but that doesn't make YOUR problems suck less, and for what it's worth I'm really sorry you're going through this. 

I guess as an outsider reading this, I get a real *severe depression* vibe from what you've said. 
I also wonder if the "nuke it from orbit" thing that you did to your relationship is as final as you make it sound. I do feel that a professional would be best to help you work that out, though, as well as helping you process the trauma you've gone through in the past 2 years. Yeah, man. TRAUMA + some really self-destructive coping mechanisms. It doesn't sound like you've had a good run of things at all. And maybe you might regret some things that you did, or didn't do. But perhaps you just did the best you *could* at the time, in very stressful situations. 

Guilt can be helpful sometimes to recognise when we need to improve, but it's not helpful if it always keeps you in a dark place just beating yourself up about things. I don't know how to say this without sounding incredibly patronising, but I struggle with unresolved guilt about things. And I tell myself that I do the best I *can* and sometimes that means I'll make mistakes. That means that we just have to try to do better or be better in the future.

I really hope that things start looking brighter for you soon. I'm not sure how old you are, but if you just keep going, 2 years won't really feel like much at all once you're looking back.

----------


## Velaryon

I made a reply going into more detail about my breakup, but I deleted it because she contacted me late last night and said she wanted to work things out. I obviously can't assume everything is going to be okay, but at least now there's a chance of working things out.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Spoke to a divorce lawyer on Monday, mentioned that to my brother and by Wednesday a lovely lady invited me to be her roommate, and another lady is very clearly auditioning to be my girlfriend. It seems that while I thought I was average looking 22 year-old I'm a great looking 52 year-old. 
> 
> I'm still dithering, if I leave my wife it would be in July or August so I may truthfully say "We were together for 29 years", which I want to be able to do for silly pride reasons. 
> 
> I was surprised how much the invitation to live in San Francisco improved my mood, motorcycling inside the city to go to work instead of driving across the bridge has a lot of appeal.
> 
> More than I little guilt about leaving the kids, if I was a better man than I could forgive my wife and accept the status quo, sadly I'm not and the waves of crying and flashes of anger I have had show that.


Sorry to hear about the divorce. Previous posts indicate that this is just acknowledging what's been true for a while now, but the finality of it all can be very hard to handle. I've never gotten one, but only because I didn't marry the long-term girlfriends from before my wife. I've certainly had rough breakups, and they really stink. Only advice I really have is to hedge your bets about any relationship forged while in-process of the divorce. The person you will be in 12 months will be different from whom these women are auditioning. That said, if you can do it without the kids thinking you were stepping out on the marriage ahead of time, by all means give it a good ol' fashioned try. 

Best of luck with it all. There's always someone willing to break bread with you in the midwest if you pass through.




> It's hard to think about leaving, and to do it. I'm glad to hear you are finding some happiness amid all this. If you do go ahead with the move, I hope you have some way to keep contact with your 'kids'.


That is always the struggle. I stayed in two toxic relationships well past the expiration date because of the kids (none of them mine, so post-break-up I had no reasonable avenue to see them again). 

I have my own issue in need of advice, which I hopefully will have time to write up sooner rather than later.

----------


## dehro

> My girlfriend and I just broke up (like, less than 2 hours ago) and I am hurting. I thought this was going to be the one that worked - that I had finally got my situation figured out and found the right woman to share it with. I didn't think we were going to imminently get engaged or anything, but I at least thought there was a good chance that that was in our futures. And once again I'm wrong, and left wondering why I can never seem to find anyone who loves me and thinks I'm worth the effort of trying. Just like every time before, I am left feeling like nobody loves me or _can_ love me in a romantic sense, and that there is something fundamentally wrong with me that everybody but me can see, and that the only people who will even give me a chance are people who just haven't figured out yet that I'm unlovable and worthless.
> 
> I could go into a lot more about specifics but I don't feel up to it right now. I'm just hurting and I want to scream.





> I made a reply going into more detail about my breakup, but I deleted it because she contacted me late last night and said she wanted to work things out. I obviously can't assume everything is going to be okay, but at least now there's a chance of working things out.


however things may turn out with your SO, remember these two posts of yours...




> I can never seem to find anyone who loves me and thinks I'm worth the effort of trying.


If anything, whatever may happen, this girl has proven to you twice that this is not true... She tried once, and she's willing to try again.
Things don't always work out, but that's just life. Your worth or perceived lack of worth has nothing to do with it.

I wish you well.

----------


## Velaryon

> however things may turn out with your SO, remember these two posts of yours...
> 
> 
> If anything, whatever may happen, this girl has proven to you twice that this is not true... She tried once, and she's willing to try again.
> Things don't always work out, but that's just life. Your worth or perceived lack of worth has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I wish you well.


Thank you. She has indeed done a great job of telling that voice in the back of my mind to sit down and shut up.

It is perhaps worth noting that this is the first time someone has _ever_ tried to work things out with me rather than bailing on me the first time they were unsatisfied with something about the relationship (or staying quiet about it until things reached a boiling point for them). It means a lot to me that she's actually investing in me.

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## 2D8HP

> Sorry to hear about the divorce.



I'm not even sure if I'll bother to get a legal divorce, I may just leave, if she wants a divorce, or if I have an opportunity to re-marry I'll of course get one. 




> Previous posts indicate that this is just acknowledging what's been true for a while now, but the finality of it all can be very hard to handle. I've never gotten one, but only because I didn't marry the long-term girlfriends from before my wife. I've certainly had rough breakups, and they really stink. Only advice I really have is to hedge your bets about any relationship forged while in-process of the divorce. The person you will be in 12 months will be different from whom these women are auditioning. That said, if you can do it without the kids thinking you were stepping out on the marriage ahead of time, by all means give it a good ol' fashioned try. 
> 
> 
> Best of luck with it all. There's always someone willing to break bread with you in the midwest if you pass through.
> 
> 
> That is always the struggle. I stayed in two toxic relationships well past the expiration date because of the kids (none of them mine, so post-break-up I had no reasonable avenue to see them again).



Thank you @Willie the Duck;




> I have my own issue in need of advice, which I hopefully will have time to write up sooner rather than later.



Best wishes to you. 

My life has changed, most days I pack more of my books, listen to old songs while driving to someplace foggy and/or near the ocean, have long walks where it's foggy and they"re trees, buy books and fabulous shoes, check up on the progtess of the repairs to the repairs of my old British motorcycle, pretend to go work and instead go to a room I rent near the ocean, unpack, cook, read, watch old movies and have long talks with the lady who invited me to live there, plan, look forward to, and go on dates with a kind lady who's also married.

Maybe not "healthy" but I was in deep "I don't want to live" despair before I started doing those things, after I realized (and my wife confessed) that if I remained devoted I would never be kissed for at least another 18 years. 

Not what I expected my life to be, that I have three women each fulfilling part of the role one used to do alone seems odd, but that one is tired of me and doesn't want to do the talking together or going out together the other ladies do now. Intellectually I know that this is so common as to be almost inevitable, emotionally I'll never understand why love doesn't last for me, but it doesn't and I've been lucky to find substitutes.

My wife has told me that we're going up to Seattle to deal with her Mom's house, after that I plan to leave, and I can't decide if it's more or less cruel to leave before or after the little one starts Kindergarten in late August. 

Seeing my wife while knowing that we will never love each other again like we once did breaks my heart, and I'm weary of heartache, but I don't want to see less of the kids, there is no win-win solution for this, short of my becoming so wealthy that I could bribe my wife into taking acting lessons and pretending to still love me, but I suspect she'd break character. 

Also, at this point, as well as residual love for my wife, especially after they both have cried in front of me while telling me of their lives I have platonic love for my roommate, and romantic love for the married woman that I'm dating (she gave my my first kiss not from a child or a dog that I've received in over 17 years!), and I don't want to lose them. Interestingly to me both my roommate and my date, without my asking, in telling me of their lives, said "I'm not polygamous", in my roomate's case she's told of multiple times of dating someone new while still coupled with someone, and in my date's case she said that while she, a married woman, is on a date with me, a married man. I resisted the impulse to say "No were not polygamous, those people do what they do in the open, what we are are cheaters, that we're desperate, lonely, and sad doesn't change that".

----------


## Rydiro

> Thank you. She has indeed done a great job of telling that voice in the back of my mind to sit down and shut up.
> 
> It is perhaps worth noting that this is the first time someone has _ever_ tried to work things out with me rather than bailing on me the first time they were unsatisfied with something about the relationship (or staying quiet about it until things reached a boiling point for them). It means a lot to me that she's actually investing in me.


Do you two actually bring most of your emotional/other issues into the discussion?
Are your own issues part of it (you seem to have low self-esteem)?

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## Velaryon

> Do you two actually bring most of your emotional/other issues into the discussion?
> Are your own issues part of it (you seem to have low self-esteem)?


I'm not sure I understand the question here.

As for my self-esteem, confidence has always been a struggle for me. I've had to scratch and claw for every bit of self-confidence I've ever had. It seems to come easily to some people, but to me, telling me to "just be confident" is about as useful as telling me to "just grow wings," and just as possible. For me, confidence and self-esteem need to be based on something. In some areas I am fine. In the field of romance, I have always struggled. It really doesn't help that every previous relationship (all one-and-a-half of them) ended with my partner deciding that things couldn't be fixed without putting any effort whatsoever into trying. This near-breakup was heading that same way, until it wasn't.

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## Lissou

I can't speak for Rydiro but I read the question as "do you actually dive into the issues as the root of whatever problems you discuss?"

Self-esteem is hard. I know it's something you need to get from inside but I also struggle a lot with that, I still get my validation from outside most of the time. Working on it, but you should know you're not alone there :)

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## tomandtish

> I'm not even sure if I'll bother to get a legal divorce, I may just leave, if she wants a divorce, or if I have an opportunity to re-marry I'll of course get one.


I would strongly suggest talking to a lawyer if you are planning on splitting up. There are a lot of things that can get complicated if you're still legally married, including who inherits, who can make medical decisions for you, etc.

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## Bartmanhomer

Hello. I feel devastated about a Youtuber who goes by the name Dizz that passed away last Friday. I know her a bit who's been going to other Youtuber live streams. She died with a blood clot in her lungs. She was 46 years old and I feel sad about it.  :Frown:

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## Lysbeth

> Hello. I feel devastated about a Youtuber who goes by the name Dizz that passed away last Friday. I know her a bit who's been going to other Youtuber live streams. She died with a blood clot in her lungs. She was 46 years old and I feel sad about it.


Take the time to grieve - it's okay not to feel okay, and sudden loss or disappearance will always harsh one's vibe.
To help process it, be as honest about how you feel as you can, and let yourself feel bad when you need to let it out.

Good luck with that, and make time for yourself! Emotions take energy so don't let yourself compound that with exhaustion!

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## Bartmanhomer

> Take the time to grieve - it's okay not to feel okay, and sudden loss or disappearance will always harsh one's vibe.
> To help process it, be as honest about how you feel as you can, and let yourself feel bad when you need to let it out.
> 
> Good luck with that, and make time for yourself! Emotions take energy so don't let yourself compound that with exhaustion!


Thank you. I appreciate your kind advice.  :Smile:

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## Talar

So story is spoilered just for ease, and for the fact that I need to vent more than anything I think. 

*Spoiler*
Show

 So a few months ago started talking to a girl, soon after began dating. And it was wonderful, same interests, same goals and wants in life. A few similar life experiences that have left both of us sort of running in place a bit. As such things progressed sort of fast, but I have always been one to wear my heart on my sleeve, and like I said things were going wonderfully, clicking on all cylinders. Obviously, since I am posting in this thread you know the end of this story, she broke up with me this past weekend. 

An important point here is that she has a four year old son from an ex who cheated on her. And her situation is weird (really no better way to put it) as she currently rents a room from her ex's parents (in her words she does most co-parenting with the grandparents and not the father) in a house he also still lives. Yes weird, I know, life does that sometimes. And as far as I know (and have been told) her ex only pays for monthly daycare and that is about the extent of child support he gives, which accounts roughly for about a third of what is average for the state for child support. I generally feel like she is taken advantage of fairly regularly by him like this (he complains when he has to babysit or for him it would be called parenting). 

To rundown events that led to the break up, she felt that her son needed a new bed, he was still in a toddler bed about to turn 5, and so she was going to buy a new one in the hopes that it would be his bed till his late teenage years. I offered to help pay for it, since the kid needs a bed, and she really could not afford it on her own. A couple days later, apparently her ex had an offer accepted on a house and then he started waffling, and then the idea was she would rent out the basement to help out. Again weird, no weirder than her current situation though, and it would give her more semblance of her own place, and the feeling like she could actually have guests over. Seemed like a net gain for her...besides renting from her ex. 

A couple things sort of happen all on top of each other. So my current job is not turning out how it was supposed too. The main draw of the job was free tuition to get a master's degree, now I am fighting with HR to actually get the benefit. My current job is working for a police department attached to a University, and the higher ups came up with a couple solutions...that to put simply are some of the dumbest things I have ever heard. We are perennially short staffed as in have about 3 people to cover 24/7, but instead of hiring more people their idea was to put officer's personal information on signs and announce essentially that they were completely alone.  In light of that I have decided I need a new job, which she was supportive of but had a weird caveat/insistence that I commit to my next one for at least 2 years, which is fine I don't necessarily like switching jobs but I am not going to just stay put in a dead end job or in one that actively makes me miserable. So I explained that and she still sort of insisted I commit anyway without knowing what my next job would possibly be (looking like union plumber as I have a family connection as an in with the union). This led to be indirectly swearing at her out of annoyance/being tired as she would not drop the issue and it getting late into the night (the exact context roughly I said "My problem was her beeping insistence"). So this was a trigger for her that I was unaware of (never discussed possible triggers, hindsight is 20/20, other hand I do just sort of swear a lot in my natural speaking tendencies bad habit of mine). I did apologize immediately in the next breath, and we were able to more or less get past that rather quickly (she slept on it and in the morning we were able to talk it out, I was unable to fall asleep really). Alongside this she was talking about the basement, apparently it is not really ready to live in, and in fact does not have an egress window to be within code if someone is going to be living in said basement.   When talking about the basement she was saying we a lot, which did not make me feel good, made me feel like a piggy bank more or less. 

I knew that feeling was coming from a paranoid/irrational part of my brain, but I did not want to let it fester. So shortly after we made up, I decided that I should air that feeling out, instead of burying it. So I did, and I said (paraphrasing) 'I am happy to help out, especially with things that might come with us if we ever get our own place. But making home improvements on somebody else's house leaves me with a bad feeling, especially after I just helped buy his son a bed...' There was more (the piggy bank part), and she said it was never her intention to make me feel that way, and that she understood the home improvement thing. But she took issue with how I said his son. To her that was indicative that I would view her son differently and treat him differently and hold things against him? That comment came from how I feel her ex is takes advantage of her. She is naturally a very helpful person (she helped him find the house, and work with the lender, and even wrote a letter to the sellers of the house he's looking to buy). And now the relationship is over. 

The idea that I would feel differently about her son I feel does not line with what I have done...if anything I was excited about the prospect of being a father figure and was actively looking for ways to be one, and to help her. And then she said something about us having different long term view points, not wanting a romantic relationship, that maybe after being friends for awhile we might be able to get back together she later walked this back saying she did not see this happening, all the while saying I was an amazing and great person (and still wanted to be friends). And now I am left depressed, confused, angry, and sort of devastated. She does not seem to realize how hurt I am by all of this as she wants to just seamlessly move into being friends. From previous relationships I have some trauma and general trust issues, and I was really working hard on overcoming that with her and trying to share and not let things linger and become issues later...and all that is down the drain now, or feels that way any rate. A lot of feelings are going through my head, like was she just looking for an excuse to end things, and I'm just left feeling bitter and I do not know what I did...I understand the swearing bit, and how that is reminiscent of trauma from her past relationship and is something she will not put up with long term. But I do not want to help her ****ty ex with home improvements and I help with her son where he should...and I'm the bad guy? She checked off just about every box I had in terms of what I look for in a SO and to lose her like this is really knocking me down, and I can feel myself breaking apart.

I am sorry if that got confusing, I wanted to avoid names. And that got longer than I originally planned. Thank you for reading...venting did not help as much as I had hoped.

----------


## Melayl

> This isnt my first time posting here, but I feel like sharing an update about my life and how I feel about things. No need to comment if you dont want to, this is more about me getting things out in a place free from judgment.
> 
> *Spoiler: Warning: May contain traces of self-pity*
> Show
> 
> Nearly two years ago (August 2019), I moved from Canada to the UK. I had taken a job as a teacher in an academically renowned school right out of my graduate programme, and I thought that I would get a chance to travel and meet new people. It sounds incredibly cliche, but I wanted to put some miles on my soul. When I left, my family was undergoing a strange metamorphosis. My parents - who split up years ago and both had new partners - were on the path to reconciliation and were friends again. My half brother on my dads side had turned 1 a few months before. My dog - who I essentially raised from a puppy in my teens - had turned 10 and was entering her twilight years. One of my best friends in the world was engaged to be married; I had saved the date for summer of 2020.
> 
> When I started my job in September 2019, I realized right away just how demanding it was going to be. They tell you that teaching is one of those professions thats exceptionally hard in the first 2 years, because you have to get used to the workload and you havent build up your own compendium of resources that you feel comfortable teaching yet. Making your own lesson plans and working on a curriculum can be really daunting at first, and the school I had chosen to work at had very high expectations for teachers. If you arent in by 7:00 and out later than 6:00 in your first year, then youre going to fall behind. Obviously there are more demanding jobs out there (Im not going to pretend that teaching doesnt have benefits) but the workplace culture took me by surprise.
> 
> ...


I will echo Phoenix in saying that your story is just as important as anyone else's and that it sounds as though you may ne experiencing major (clinical) depression. 

This is nothing to be ashamed of, and certainly not something you brought upon yourself. It _is_ something you really need to speak to a medical and/or psychological professional about.  Depression isn't anything to be messed around with.

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## 2D8HP

For a long sad list of reasons since May I've been renting a room in a house in the city I work in and have been moving things into it, and I was going to move myself into and away from my wife's house after "our" five-year old's first day of Kindergarten later this month, but in a snit I left earlier than I planned on July 27th, and for six nights I slept away from my wife's house and the only time I cried during those six days was once, when me and my wife spoke on the phone. 

But a promise is a promise and I had promised my wife I'd help her clear out her Mom's house (who's now in assisted living) so I returned to her house for a night then boarded a jet with her.

Below is a letter I sent _my_  Mom:

'Thanks Mom, you're kind to ask.

The weather has been much better, it was nicely overcast, we even got some site seeing in and not just house cleaning and document inspecting today. 

We did spend what felt like too time than we'd like dealing with what to do with [my wife's] parent's revolver that would expose us to the least liability, we didn't think we could safely leave it for the removal crew.

Me and my [my wife] did a lot of talking and crying a few nights ago, and we were more honest with each other without also yelling at each other than, well ever, without much details I did tell my wife I'd "already been on lunch dates with other women" (that would be with [my girlfriend], and with my roommate [her name], I didn't give a number or mention that my male roommate [his name] was also on some of the "dates", perhaps that's cruel or merciful, I suspect the latter more), and that I'd already received "my first kiss from a woman in 18 years" and I pointed to my cheek and said here". I told [my wife] that even as I was on the dates and thinking "this is nice" I wondered "Why can't this be with my wife?", and I told her that after I was kissed I wondered "Why couldn't this been from my wife?".

I can't remember when in the conversation but also I said to her "You didn't want me" and a lot more. 

She said quite a lot as well.

She seems more displeased by the idea that I may re-marry and have more kids more than anything else (a possibility she brought up).

Lots of tears during that talk, on both sides

I asked (since she's clear that we are never to touch) why she wants me with her at all besides finances and the kids and she told me "Because you're the only family I have left and you've always had my back".

Sometime later at dark o'clock she came into my bedroom and said "You're happier there" (San Francisco), but to please live with her and the kids on the weekend and pretend to the five-year-old that I'm only away on weeknights because of work "I can convince him of that", as if he (like the older boy) won't eventually notice that "Mom and Dad" never hug and kiss.

The idea does have some appeal though, while I cry every night I share a roof with her I'd see the kids that way, but still have most nights away from her, which is when I don't cry.

I imagine my being a "weekend husband" will make dating implausible, but there'd still be a glimmer of hope, maybe some kind lady would tap me on the shoulder (hey, it happened in '89!), and I can talk books with [my male roomate], and movies with [my female roommate], futz with mitorcycles, and it would be enough - even if I never find someone who'll pretend to like the flowers I buy her.

After our talk and much tears me and [my wife] seemed to have an understanding, but next day she noted a towel I brought and commented with an edge in her voice "Got that on your own?"

I shouldn't be surprised but I'm disappointed. 

Then the day after that she came to me, smiled, gave me a hug, and thanked me for "all that you've done", and didn't recoil when I kissed her on her cheek.

Both [my lady roommate] and [my girlfriend] have asked me how I am this week and I've told them much that I've now told you.

[My girlfriend] is anxious of but seems forgiving if me and [my wife] "patch things up" and says she still wants us to have the date we scheduled and cancelled because of illness.

I still have the most love for [my wife] (despite the bitterness, our first year and our eleventh year together were the happiest months of my life), and I'm very grateful to [my girlfriend] but I know I most look forward to time with [my lady roommate], our collection of old movies we selected together, and her dachshunds.

So, family life with [my wife], dates and (future?) kisses with [my girlfriend], and dates we don't call dates with [my lady roommate] ("[2D8HP], my coffee date just cancelled, do you want to hang out?"). 

I don't want to lose any of that, once I thought I could get all those things in one woman, but I guess that was too much of a burden. 

It's complicated.

All three have cried in front of me and each time they do I fall in-love a little (an irrational failing of mine)

Between the two of us I expected [my brother's] life to be more like this and mine to be more traditional, but the reverse is true, just like he was the one to go to college.

I'm not sure who I am, and I certainly don't know what would be best to do.

-[2D8HP]'

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## 3SecondCultist

> I had to reply, even though the conversation has moved along a little.
> 
> It kinda sounds like you're trying to downplay a lot of what you're going through. 
> Why? Everyone has their problems, sure, but that doesn't make YOUR problems suck less, and for what it's worth I'm really sorry you're going through this. 
> 
> I guess as an outsider reading this, I get a real *severe depression* vibe from what you've said. 
> I also wonder if the "nuke it from orbit" thing that you did to your relationship is as final as you make it sound. I do feel that a professional would be best to help you work that out, though, as well as helping you process the trauma you've gone through in the past 2 years. Yeah, man. TRAUMA + some really self-destructive coping mechanisms. It doesn't sound like you've had a good run of things at all. And maybe you might regret some things that you did, or didn't do. But perhaps you just did the best you *could* at the time, in very stressful situations. 
> 
> Guilt can be helpful sometimes to recognise when we need to improve, but it's not helpful if it always keeps you in a dark place just beating yourself up about things. I don't know how to say this without sounding incredibly patronising, but I struggle with unresolved guilt about things. And I tell myself that I do the best I *can* and sometimes that means I'll make mistakes. That means that we just have to try to do better or be better in the future.
> ...





> I will echo Phoenix in saying that your story is just as important as anyone else's and that it sounds as though you may ne experiencing major (clinical) depression. 
> 
> This is nothing to be ashamed of, and certainly not something you brought upon yourself. It _is_ something you really need to speak to a medical and/or psychological professional about.  Depression isn't anything to be messed around with.


Thank you for the kind words, both of you. They do mean a lot; I will admit that I had a bad run of it in the UK, and I need to find someone that I can speak to professionally about my assorted baggage. There is unfortunately quite a bit to unpack, but I hope that finding someone to listen, empathize and offer constructive solutions will be productive. When I start my new job in a few weeks, I will certainly avail myself to the in-house counsellor.

Two weeks ago, I flew home to Canada. Im on holiday now and enjoying catching up with friends and family. Its been exceptionally strange - I went from being totally isolated to being inundated with attention, which has been both gratifying and overwhelming as Im sure various folks here might imagine. When Im alone, I still slip into bitter and oppressive moods. Talking with people has helped, but Ive found that I have had to edit or omit significant details of my experience to nearly everyone. Nobody knows the full story: every time I tell it, its a bit different.

Guilt is a funny beast. The further I get from everything thats happened - both emotionally and physically - the easier it is to live with stuff. But theres always the thought at the back of your mind that says can you really be okay with living with this? What kind of person does that make you?. And thats a whole different brand of self-flagellation. Im trying to avoid that cycle, but its difficult to mean it when I smile every day.

(I just turned 27 by the way - I imagine Im pretty close to the average age for forum users, perhaps slightly below)

----------


## Tvtyrant

> For a long sad list of reasons since May I've been renting a room in a house in the city I work in and have been moving things into it, and I was going to move myself into and away from my wife's house after "our" five-year old's first day of Kindergarten later this month, but in a snit I left earlier than I planned on July 27th, and for six nights I slept away from my wife's house and the only time I cried during those six days was once, when me and my wife spoke on the phone. 
> 
> But a promise is a promise and I had promised my wife I'd help her clear out her Mom's house (who's now in assisted living) so I returned to her house for a night then boarded a jet with her.
> 
> Below is a letter I sent _my_  Mom:
> 
> 'Thanks Mom, you're kind to ask.
> 
> The weather has been much better, it was nicely overcast, we even got some site seeing in and not just house cleaning and document inspecting today. 
> ...


Don't stay with your wife, cut off contact with her while you see a therapist. I don't know the whole story, but your relationship hasn't been working for a long time and you need some time to figure out what you want now that the relationship is over. It's extremely easy to justify staying in an abusive relationship if you are trying to figure out what you want while being connected to your abuser, and given the things you have talked about she clearly is.

----------


## 2D8HP

Thank you for the advice Tvtyrant

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I have a serious question to ask: How do you deal with death? The reason why I asked one of my friends on Youtube told me that there was another Youtuber passed away. And ago I already took a break on Youtube a few months ago because another Youtuber that I know passed away. I really can't handle death that well because I get depressed and sad.  :Frown:

----------


## dehro

> Thank you for the advice Tvtyrant


I would echo the sentiment...
there seems to be on her part a degree of manipulation, that is possibly born out of necessity/fear of being alone/resentment for the possibility that you might actually be happy without her.. her request for weekend coparenting is reasonable, but will also severely impact you moving on from the relationship with her.
I could of course be entirely wrong, but what little you relate about her expressions and statements towards you seem to point in a direction not too distant from the above.
either way, it's not the healthiest of places to be in, and it could  really colour the way your eldest sees and experiences relationships as he is growing up and possibly understands more than you'd like him to at this stage.
weekend cohabitation could be something for when both of you are in a better place.. right now that just sounds like another way of dragging things out, keeping a shadow of a status quo that doesn't actually help either of you.

----------


## Salbazier

I'm so upset with my brother.

Yesterday, my family (me, my elder brother, and my mother) went to bookstore. I split off from my brother and mother, to window shop by myself. I'm bibliophile and love browsing books. I thought it will be alright, since there's my brother to accompany my mother.

... when we meet back, the mood was bad. My brother just stay mostly silent and sullen. That's when I realized, they must had a fight again. I mentally kicked myself for leaving my brother with my mother, because it feels like happens so very often. For me to split off while we are going out, only for me to find such scene when I returned to them.

And worse, my brother continues to stay sullen even after going back to the next day. When my brother goes like that, he either 1)stay in his room just sleeping and refuse to eat 2) went off to God knows where on his motorbike.

He did the former all night and just now this afternoon did the later. I'm so very angry. There's just so very many grievance I had over the years, but this is just the straw. I upset for my mother, who is worried for him. And I'm upset for myself because his behavior is just infuriating.

He left without even trying to say anything, and even when I asked directly where he is going, he just say 'to wherever'. That's just ... Like, I'm a Muslim (and so is my family, to be clear). I learn early in my life how important it is Islam to say proper _salam_ when leaving or coming, especially one's own home. I always hold on to that. Unless I'm genuinely forgot, Even when I'm angry to people at home, I always make sure to properly notice them when I leave and say salam. Same with when I return. 

I know it sounds, it minor, but I view that as basic decency. Little things you do to others even if you are upset with them, because its just decent. Precisely because its little thing, there's no reason not to do so. And I think its all the more important to that in regard to your home and/or your parent. So its offend me that he can't even manage this basic thing.

What making it worse, is that he's often preachy about religion thing (well, about a lot of things really). So its doubly upsetting to see someone who often act so 'righteous' about things, will not even this basic thing. 

That's a common theme with him, honestly. The way I see it, he's very keen on telling people what to do, but so defiant when others tell him what to do. Like, he refuse to get vaccinated for one (we had a fight about this just few weeks ago). Back during early days of pandemy, I try to tell him that he should wash his hands with soap (what the point of washing hand without!). He refused that too. I don't know, if he has now. Frankly, I turn blind eye whenever he is wash his hand, because I don't want to get more aneurysm by seeing him washing hands without soap. There's just so many things.

I admit I have some glass house here. I myself can be arrogant, meddling, petty, and temperamental. I got a lot of fights with my mother myself (I'm trying to be better, but sometimes I still fly off handle and there's these accumulating dark thoughts that I try to fight) But I never throw tantrum so much as to left house and wander like that, nor leaving home without saying anything. 

I blew up after he left home. It was *really hard* holding back from blowing up to him before he left. I vented by talking to my mother. Feel bad for doing so. She's the one is most grieved by my brother, it doesn't really becoming of me to put her in position of trying to calm me down instead.


I just want to vent. Maybe putting this to type will help me settle. Truthfully, some months/years ago I already felt wanting to vent about this here, but refrained before.


(my brother came back while I writing this. As expected, still no word whatsoever from him).

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I have a serious question to ask: How do you deal with death? The reason why I asked one of my friends on Youtube told me that there was another Youtuber passed away. And ago I already took a break on Youtube a few months ago because another Youtuber that I know passed away. I really can't handle death that well because I get depressed and sad.


There is no easy way to deal with death. Only time help you heal from that sadness. 

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/etTj0

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> There is no easy way to deal with death. Only time help you heal from that sadness. 
> 
> https://m.imgur.com/gallery/etTj0


Thank you. I just want to move on to enjoy life.  :Smile:

----------


## Salbazier

How do you hold back from unleashing your anger and urge to scold others? Because in relation to the things in my post above, my brother continue to be infuriating and I feel consumed with the anger and need to just yell at him. I keep found myself indulging in fantasies doing so. I didn't so far, because if nothing else, I don't want to add more burden to my mother.


EDIT: God, it just keep getting worse. *Spoiler*
Show

So my mother just trying to persuade my brother to eat, and he was like. He was throwing tantrum because according to him my mother were saying to him yesterday that 'all he do is just sleep'. My mother denies saying so. I don't know if in the truth is my brother mishear or my mother misspoke or she just forgot. But like, how dare him, how dare him throwing tantrum over those words even if my mother trully said it. Because thing is, that's just the truth. That's just what he has been doing all these (2-3) years since he moved in with us. Sleeping in his room and playing phone. It even got worse as time went by. Early on he still go out for morning walk, but he didn't even do that anymore. He didn't even clean his room. 

I mean, I got no stone to throw here. Since last year, okay, this is hard to admit, but I have stopped applying for jobs or studying skill for a while now. I keep procrastinating. But at the very least I'm not denying that or that I deserved castigation for it. I've been thankful that my mother and eldest brother (different brother with the above) is being patient with me, too patient arguably.

It just to hear my brother acting like that, all I can think is how shameless he is being, and I grief so much seeing my mother treated that way after all her patience.

And once I again, I just making more burden for my mother because she has to calm me down. God, I don't know anymore.

I really should back doing something productive. Anything.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> How do you hold back from unleashing your anger and urge to scold others? Because in relation to the things in my post above, my brother continue to be infuriating and I feel consumed with the anger and need to just yell at him. I keep found myself indulging in fantasies doing so. I didn't so far, because if nothing else, I don't want to add more burden to my mother.
> 
> 
> EDIT: God, it just keep getting worse. *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> So my mother just trying to persuade my brother to eat, and he was like. He was throwing tantrum because according to him my mother were saying to him yesterday that 'all he do is just sleep'. My mother denies saying so. I don't know if in the truth is my brother mishear or my mother misspoke or she just forgot. But like, how dare him, how dare him throwing tantrum over those words even if my mother trully said it. Because thing is, that's just the truth. That's just what he has been doing all these (2-3) years since he moved in with us. Sleeping in his room and playing phone. It even got worse as time went by. Early on he still go out for morning walk, but he didn't even do that anymore. He didn't even clean his room. 
> 
> I mean, I got no stone to throw here. Since last year, okay, this is hard to admit, but I have stopped applying for jobs or studying skill for a while now. I keep procrastinating. But at the very least I'm not denying that or that I deserved castigation for it. I've been thankful that my mother and eldest brother (different brother with the above) is being patient with me, too patient arguably.
> ...


It feels like you need to move out and have your own place. Your situation is toxic all around. Stop worrying about your brother and improve yourself. Thats where you have some control and responsibilities. Get a job or return to school. One step at a time. Try to maybe have an healthy hobby to reward yourself during you downtime. I realized that for me, the best stress relievers is writing.

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## Salbazier

> It feels like you need to move out and have your own place. Your situation is toxic all around. Stop worrying about your brother and improve yourself. Thats where you have some control and responsibilities. Get a job or return to school. One step at a time. Try to maybe have an healthy hobby to reward yourself during you downtime. I realized that for me, the best stress relievers is writing.


Yeah, I ended up randomly picking up study books last night, just to do something productive and get away from the mind swamp. It does make me feel better to be thinking about things I could do to improve myself.

As for moving out, I've made up my mind to not do that. Even were it not for my brother, I'm worried about leaving my mother alone. Maybe if something major come up like I marry or something, but something like that is nowhere in the card right now and if does come I can think of what to do then. So, I'll just stay here. It does mean putting up with my brother, but whatever, like you said, I'll just focus on things I can do for myself. Hopefully me doing something productive will will be some relief for my mother as well.

Thank you for replying.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

So anyway early this morning on Facebook Messenger, one of my friend grandmother died from COVID! I'm very sad about it.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> So anyway early this morning on Facebook Messenger, one of my friend grandmother died from COVID! I'm very sad about it.


I understand how you might be sad about it and every life loss of someone loved is sad... but she died as an eldery grandma. We can all hope to reach her age once we go to the other side.  :Small Frown:

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## Bartmanhomer

> I understand how you might be sad about it and every life loss of someone loved is a small... but she died as an eldery grandma. We can all hope to reach her age once we go to the other side.


I know. I lost many friends and family members because of COVID and other illnesses as well. I can't deal with another death after the other.  :Frown:

----------


## Salbazier

[insert profanities here]

Because I need to channel this somewhere or I'll start smashing things. *Spoiler*
Show

 My brother is up to it again. I don't know exactly what's going (I'm trying not to listen because I know it will just make more furious)but my brother is up to another tantrum in the kitchen. The only part I can catch is my brother saying something 'who's making rules. I'm not making rules' (rough translation), which bull****. Basically my brother like to tell others how things should or should not be done and my mother is sick of it. Most likely he's doing it again and my mother telling him to not do it, and as he always do, he denies it. That's just he's modus operandi, whenever he's told off about something he's denying with some bull**** sophistry. I still have grudge till today on how when I once told him to stop talking about his political bugbear his answer was 'I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to mother' plus laughing and mocking me, and that's just the top of iceberg. 

[insert more profanities here]



EDIT: at least this one don't seem to last long.

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## Bartmanhomer

So anyway there was almost an incident that happen with my co-worker on Wednesday at the 7-Eleven Store. He was was at the store minding his own business until a man almost stabs him with a knife. He didn't provoke him or anything like that. The two security guards run the knife-wielding man out of the store. I always get my usual coffee and two bananas but after what happened to my co-worker, I'm going to eat outside elsewhere.  :Eek:

----------


## HalfTangible

Some context here: my mom's been a heavy drinker all my life, and had a bad car accident before I was born that left her physically impaired. (Not quite immobile, but she she limped everywhere). A couple years back she took a bad fall (while drunk) and broke her good leg; I don't remember what it was exactly, but I know it required multiple surgeries to fix it properly. COVID chose to rear its ugly head right around the same time that she needed surgery to get back on her feet, which delayed her surgeries by several more months. She can only walk for limited periods and spends most of her time in bed or in a wheelchair. I help out where I can around the house, but she does do a lot herself.

Get drinks, for instance.

So, preamble done... earlier today, I found my mother's car with a giant dent in the front of it, like it'd slammed into a lamp post or something. This was the first indication I had that mom had been in an accident yesterday. I went to ask her about it, she said she was sore but fine. I initially freaked out, but upon a second look (and getting a second opinion from a friend) the damage wasn't too bad. It probably did give her whiplash, but nothing too extreme.

But I was suspicious, because she seemed drunk out of her mind. She told me she was just tired, and took a nap. She often tells me she's tired when she's actually been drinking (I'm bad at reading people so I never know myself, but bro does and can smell it when I can't). When I took her cup into the other room to wash, I smelled alcohol in it. When she got up later (a bit more animated) she told me she'd swerved to avoid hitting a cat and hit a tree.

That seemed like utter horse****. When I contacted my brother about it, he told me that she'd told him she'd _drunk too much_ and hit a tree. (Some of you who have been here for a while may recall a few years back that my brother's best friend was killed by a drunk driver.)

Bro is _pissed_ with her. And frankly, I'm at about the limit myself on that front. I don't like being lied to and I don't like watching someone I care about drink themselves to death.

The only rational course of action I could think to do was take every bottle of alcohol in the house I could find (there was a lot, including a near-empty bottle of Crown Royal, which she's _allergic to_) and move it where she couldn't get to it easily. Probably missed a lot of it, since I was trying not to wake her up.

----------


## dehro

in your place, I'd have burned the stuff. good on you for restraining yourself...although, if what you describe about your mother is true, any amount left within her grasp is an amount too large.
depending on her age, income/employment status, general mental status, I would consider options to the effect of asking for some sort of social/judicial assisstance, up to having her declared not self-sufficient/of clear mind.. if of course those are legal options.
she will hate you and your brother for it, for a long time.. but she will have the time to hate you for it..and maybe even get over it.
otherwise, I would seek out options to distance yourself from her. it is a terrible thing to do, but if changing nothing affects your wellbeing and doesn't help her breaking the cycle, you have to start thinking for yourself and change things up.

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## DarthArminius

*My Dogs tried to kill each other*
So Levi, my black furred weiner dog and my chiweinie, Tybo were fighting each other ten minutes ago. Levi was bleeding, and now Tybo is in big trouble. I don't know what happened other than that they were biting at each other.

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## sktarq

> Some context here: my mom's been a heavy drinker all my life, and had a bad car accident before I was born that left her physically impaired. ....
> The only rational course of action I could think to do was take every bottle of alcohol in the house I could find (there was a lot, including a near-empty bottle of Crown Royal, which she's _allergic to_) and move it where she couldn't get to it easily. Probably missed a lot of it, since I was trying not to wake her up.


Okay this sucks...

The not liking to watch someone you care about drink themselves to death strikes a little too close to home even if that part of my life is behind me. (Relationship Advice 22 (I think) thread if you really want to dig).

A few things I wish someone had told me then but YMMV. 

Unless she wants to get help there isn't much you can do to fix this...its on her. 

That said there are a number of options if you can can get her to try. In spite of what many 12 step programs say (esp in the USA) there are other options. Look into medications, therapies, and the like that may be available through doctors where you are before you discuss this with her if you ever do. Which, you don't have to.  

Also you are in a tough place. And having a place to vent etc can be helpful. I don't know if you've looked in Alanon groups in your area, but they are specifically for the loved ones of alcoholics and the like. Such a system can be useful and may have tips that can help you. 

also you have my deepest sympathies.

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## Bartmanhomer

A Facebook friend of mine spoke to me on Messenger a few minutes ago that he's thinking about ending his life. Long story short, he was very stressed due to the social media that has been going on lately. So I give him the Suicide Prevention Phone Number and I hope he calls that number and gets the help that he needs.  :Frown:

----------


## Spore

> A Facebook friend of mine spoke to me on Messenger a few minutes ago that he's thinking about ending his life. Long story short, he was very stressed due to the social media that has been going on lately. So I give him the Suicide Prevention Phone Number and I hope he calls that number and gets the help that he needs.


You should actually call an ambulance to his place, if you know the adress. This is serious, and paramedics are trained in dealing with this.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> You should actually call an ambulance to his place, if you know the adress. This is serious, and paramedics are trained in dealing with this.


Well that the thing, I don't even know his address.  :Frown:   :Sigh:

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## Melayl

You can keep checking with him, and encouraging him to call.

You could also call the number yourself, and give them his Messenger contact information. I don't know if they can actually contact him without him initiating it, but it's worth checking.

I'm glad he has a friend who cares enough to try to help!

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> You can keep checking with him, and encouraging him to call.
> 
> You could also call the number yourself, and give them his Messenger contact information. I don't know if they can actually contact him without him initiating it, but it's worth checking.
> 
> I'm glad he has a friend who cares enough to try to help!


He return on Facebook yesterday with a happy emoji on his Facebook post.  :Smile:

----------


## Melayl

That's great to hear!

----------


## Comrade

So I'm in kind of a bind.

*Spoiler: Wow this turned into a real yarn*
Show

I've been with my partner now for almost a year and a half, half of that spent living together. This is the happiest I've ever been, we love each other, my family likes her, I like her family, all that good stuff. We agreed to move together back to her home country, and we've both been pretty clear we want to spend our lives together. But more and more lately I've been forced to confront the possibility that we may be fundamentally incompatible in the long-term in ways that could be a huge problem in the future.

I work in politics. I'm also deeply involved in politics outside of work. I don't want to get too specific because it's not the point and I don't wanna run afoul of forum rules, but I serve as the head of a local political organization, am very proud of the work I do in that context, and _enjoy_ the work I do in that context. She's not all that into politics at the best of times, doubly so since this isn't her home country, and it genuinely upsets her that I'm involved to this extent. She refuses to be in the house when I take meetings related to my organization, and the last couple of times we've had in-person events outside of our regular meetings, I've ended up not going because it upset her so much she cried. She's made it clear she can't articulate why she feels so strongly and so negatively about it, but she feels the fact that it causes her pain should be explanation enough for me to step down from my leadership role.

I really don't want to cause her hurt, but I also don't want to resign from my position. That position, the organization, and the people in it are all important to me. I also just plain and simple enjoy that part of my life, kind of in the same way a person would enjoy being in a hobby club. I like doing it. I like meeting people through it. But maybe more importantly, I'm afraid that stepping down still won't be enough-- that she'll then want me to not go to meetings or events at all, and just completely excise this part of myself. It's gotten to a point where I decided not to go to a gala I'd been looking forward to this weekend with some friends because it upset her. It wasn't an event of ours, I wouldn't necessarily have been going in my organizational capacity, but I think just the thought of me being there and networking and rubbing elbows with political people bothered her.

Being involved in politics is a pretty core part of who I am. I've told her that when we move, I'll want to be involved there, too, a lot like I am here and now. My fear is that this will continue to be a problem until I basically stop being involved in anything even tangentially political outside of my job, and even in the context of my career she has been a little wary and it doesn't seem like she'd be comfortable with me advancing too far. It's really not about the specific organization, it's about whether she's comfortable sharing her life with someone so involved in politics. She's said she probably would be if we were in her home country, but that's a real big 'maybe' considering this is literally my life's work, and there has been a pattern of her saying 'I will/would be okay with this if _____' only to still not be okay with it afterward.

I love her and almost all the time we work incredibly well together. I don't want to hurt her. I'd like to spend my life with her, but I'm worried that that would entail basically cutting off aspects of myself and my life that are unacceptable to her. I've tried saying so, but she doesn't seem to understand how important these things are to me. Or she'll say she knows she can't ask me to stop, but just wants me to know that it causes her pain, which is pretty much the same thing. Is it unreasonable or callous of me to feel that way?

----------


## Tvtyrant

So my basic assumption is that one of two things are happening: 

Either you are into some really dangerous stuff politically and she doesn't agree with your radicalism strain for one reason or another, in which case we can't discuss it but she's looking out for her and your best interest from a safety point of view. 

Or two: It's more about control and she doesn't like you doing things outside the relationship. With the mention of your job this seems likely, does she feel the same about athletics and spending time with friends outside political settings?

In line with the second, you are also good looking and she might feel like she doesn't offer enough if you aren't kept at home. Is she a homebody by nature? Does she have things to go to while you are out or does she wait at home?

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## Melayl

Is politics in her home country dangerous or overtly corrupt? Could she be associating politics with something negative or traumatic from her life?

----------


## Comrade

> So my basic assumption is that one of two things are happening: 
> 
> Either you are into some really dangerous stuff politically and she doesn't agree with your radicalism strain for one reason or another, in which case we can't discuss it but she's looking out for her and your best interest from a safety point of view. 
> 
> Or two: It's more about control and she doesn't like you doing things outside the relationship. With the mention of your job this seems likely, does she feel the same about athletics and spending time with friends outside political settings?
> 
> In line with the second, you are also good looking and she might feel like she doesn't offer enough if you aren't kept at home. Is she a homebody by nature? Does she have things to go to while you are out or does she wait at home?


My politics are pretty much identical to hers and not particularly radical, so I'm pretty sure it ain't that. She definitely is a homebody and is far likelier than I am to want to spend the day at home, but she has never had a problem with me going to the gym, or hanging out with (non-political) friends, or anything like that. If anything, she's said a few times that she's okay with staying at home or being alone, which took _me_ some getting used to since I felt it would be almost rude to leave her at home and do my own stuff. My sense is she views politics as an inherently distasteful thing (kind of a 'I know someone has to do it, I just don't want to see it' deal) and it just took her a while to a. realize how deeply involved I am and b. realize she wasn't getting used to it or becoming okay with it.




> Is politics in her home country dangerous or overtly corrupt? Could she be associating politics with something negative or traumatic from her life?


She's from Canada, I doubt it haha

----------


## dehro

I see a massive red flag in the notion that she might have a history of declaring a possible opening to compromise without following through on it.
when she says "maybe..if..." but actually means "no way no how", that is a pretty serious breakdown in communication and may be predicated on her hoping to somehow change you or that changing circumstances might force your hand, rather than actually ever having intention to accept the compromise/renounce.
That seems either unhealthy, immature or intellectually dishonest/controlling.
Another thought is... you've been together a year before moving in together.. how has this passion/job of yours never come up before or been an issue?
Looking at it from the outside, I have a feeling there are a number of serious conversations that you might not have taken the time to table, in the rosy haze of the honeymoon period of your relationship.
Have there actually been compromises either of you have agreed upon and already followed up on? (I assume you being willing to leave your country to move closer to her family is one such.. but that's for the future.. how about today, or the past?)
Are there things she is passionate about, and what is your involvement with those?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hey everyone. There's something I have to get off my chest. I have to cut off so many people in my life because they're anti-masker/anti-vaxxer. I'm pro-masker/pro-vaxxer and I took my Moderna vaccine two times in March of this year. They always want to make this a damn political issue with no line of reasoning whatsoever. I don't want to associate these types of people with my life. I already did my part not to get sick from COVID and I'm still going to continue doing my part when the pandemic is over.

----------


## Taevyr

Just had to re-install windows on my laptop after it froze yesterday evening, and wouldn't properly boot up all day: The option said "keep all files" but apparently, that was a lie....

Luckily, all of my schoolwork including my thesis-in-progress is intact in the university OneDrive (thank whatever supreme being one feels is appropriate), but I also had a document filled with story ideas, a desktop screen with one side filled with short stories/ideas/quick write-ups of whatever was fizzing in my mind at the time, and a campaign setting worth about >6000 words..... and those all seem to be gone. 

I should be able to retrieve an old version of the setting since I remember uploading a version somewhere early-last year, and I still got the setting map in Inkarnate to work with, but still. Sure, the schoolwork is alright, but I probably lost more story ideas and half-worked out concepts than I can even remember from the past few years. Stuff that got me through the 'rona isolation period and the like. It's really getting me down atm.

----------


## dehro

> Just had to re-install windows on my laptop after it froze yesterday evening, and wouldn't properly boot up all day: The option said "keep all files" but apparently, that was a lie....
> 
> Luckily, all of my schoolwork including my thesis-in-progress is intact in the university OneDrive (thank whatever supreme being one feels is appropriate), but I also had a document filled with story ideas, a desktop screen with one side filled with short stories/ideas/quick write-ups of whatever was fizzing in my mind at the time, and a campaign setting worth about >6000 words..... and those all seem to be gone. 
> 
> I should be able to retrieve an old version of the setting since I remember uploading a version somewhere early-last year, and I still got the setting map in Inkarnate to work with, but still. Sure, the schoolwork is alright, but I probably lost more story ideas and half-worked out concepts than I can even remember from the past few years. Stuff that got me through the 'rona isolation period and the like. It's really getting me down atm.


been there multiple times back in the early days of windows 95, and me having access to hand me down laptops.
I lost a lot of teenage writing experimental writing that way... in hindsight, it probably wasn't very good, but it still sucked, so I feel your pain.

----------


## Velaryon

My life feels like a relentless storm of problems lately, and I'm starting to feel overwhelmed.

*Spoiler: this is probably going to be long*
Show


First, my girlfriend and I broke up (again) a couple weeks ago, this time probably for good. We both want to try and remain friends, but I at least will need time before I'm ready for that. So that sucks, but now I don't even really have time to feel bad about that anymore.

Next, my cat recently had a urinary tract infection, for the 2nd time this year. She's 13 years old, and the vet recently checked her for diabetes or kidney disease, for which she was thankfully negative. However, they thought she might possibly have a bladder tumor and want to see her again for that once the UTI is cleared up. Then on Wednesday morning I kept seeing her squatting on things like my gym bag, some clothes, etc. like she was going to pee on them (she generally doesn't pee outside her litter box unless it's really nasty, which it wasn't). She didn't actually pee though, so I don't know what that means. The vet wants to see her but the earliest I can get there is Monday, because...

My parents, who are in their mid-late 70s with a list of health problems that I would probably run out the character limit trying to detail, needed my help for a *bunch* of household maintenance things over the Thanksgiving holiday: the basement stairway railing broke, a closet doorknob broke, the molding on the threshold between the living room and kitchen broke, there's a bunch of groceries and other stuff that they're short on because the service they use to get groceries delivered is terrible and incompetent (I can go to the very same stores and find 100% of the things they claim are out of stock), and probably a half dozen other projects that I can't think of right now. All of which got put on the back burner because...

My dad is currently in the hospital. He was holding on to the aforementioned stairway railing when it broke, and fell. Somehow he was not injured in that fall, but then he foolishly decided to keep using the stairs with no railing to hold on to, and fell a second time in as many days. This time he did hurt his back and is now in the hospital, which means that A) our Thanksgiving was completely ruined, B) the only able-bodied person in the house is now out of commission, C) I have to do literally everything for my mom while I'm home because she can't even get out the door by herself, and D) I can only do this until Sunday because I have to go back to work on Monday, 200 miles away. I have no siblings and no nearby relatives who can be relied upon to help. 

I've reached the conclusion that my parents cannot live independently anymore and need to start the process of moving into a retirement community. I sort of have my mom on board with the idea, although she has completely unrealistic ideas about how easy it will be to clear out all the junk they've accumulated over the last 40 years. My dad however, agrees with the vague concept but insists that he needs to do a bunch of major household renovations first (like completely replace the garage, repave the driveway, etc.) stuff that he is absolutely not capable of doing anymore, and that would cost an arm and a leg to hire someone to do. 

And the icing on top of this big ol' mountain of problems is that this afternoon, while a friend was helping me repair that stairway railing, a family of stray cats snuck into our garage, which is so full of decades' worth of accumulated junk that I literally can't even find the cats in there to see where they're hiding or how many of them there even are. The only reason I know they're in there is because I saw one fleeing into the open door just as I was coming outside. I put some food in a bowl outside to try and lure the cat out, but it backfired - next time I went out there, I saw two kittens dart into the garage after their parent. There may even be more kittens than that. I checked the bowl tonight and saw that it was empty, so I moved it a little farther from the garage, refilled it, and put it in an old puppy crate we had lying around. I also contacted a stray cat rescue group that my mom used to volunteer for, and they basically told me they were stretched too thin to send anyone to help trap these kitties.

So now before I head back across the state on Sunday, I need to: fix up as much of the house as I can, restock the house for my mom, find a way to get those cats out of the garage so I can close it, and make contingency plans in case my mom needs help of some kind before my dad gets out of the hospital. I probably should also start looking into retirement communities they could move to, but I have no experience with that kind of thing and don't even know where to start.

I feel like I'm probably even forgetting some stuff. Honestly my life feels like nothing but problem after problem right now, and I'm so stressed out I can't even think clearly.

----------


## Melayl

Damn. That's a mountain of things piling up. No wonder you're feeling overwhelmed. My thoughts will be with you.

The hospital your Dad is in might be able to help you with finding/vetting retirement communities for your folks. Ask to talk to the discharge planners or the social workers about it. They probably won't be able to make the arrangements for you, but they should at least be able to get you locations a d phone numbers, and possibly reviews of places.

They might also be able to recommend agencies to help out your Mom and Dad until they can get I to a retirement community. 

I can do nothing about the cats. I'm more of a dog person :)

----------


## dafrca

I feel like I am growing invisible and losing the things that made me feel happy in the past. 

I am unsure what is driving this decay in my personal life, but I have felt it and noticed it over the last couple of years.  :Small Eek:

----------


## Melayl

> I feel like I am growing invisible and losing the things that made me feel happy in the past. 
> 
> I am unsure what is driving this decay in my personal life, but I have felt it and noticed it over the last couple of years.


Have you spoken to a medical professional about these feelings? If you haven't, please do so at your soonest opportunity. Such feelings can be symptoms of a very treatable medical condition, like depression. 
Between the pandemic and life in general,  there has been more and more people feeling like that in the last couple of years. Know that you aren't invisible, you aren't alone in your feelings, and that help is available to get you feeling better.

----------


## Velaryon

> Next, my cat recently had a urinary tract infection, for the 2nd time this year. She's 13 years old, and the vet recently checked her for diabetes or kidney disease, for which she was thankfully negative. However, they thought she might possibly have a bladder tumor and want to see her again for that once the UTI is cleared up. Then on Wednesday morning I kept seeing her squatting on things like my gym bag, some clothes, etc. like she was going to pee on them (she generally doesn't pee outside her litter box unless it's really nasty, which it wasn't). She didn't actually pee though, so I don't know what that means. The vet wants to see her but the earliest I can get there is Monday, because...


Took my kitty to the vet this morning. She has an inoperable bladder tumor, and the vet says she probably only has a few months left to live. I was given some anti-inflammatory medicines to give her that will hopefully make it less unpleasant for her to urinate, but it's purely a quality of life thing.

Bob (that's her name) has been my best friend for the last 13 and a half years, and has been with me through some of the best and worst times of my life. I really hate the idea that I'm going to lose her sooner rather than later and I just kinda hate the entire world right now.

Edit: The vet called back and wants me to bring her back in for an ultrasound tomorrow. Apparently there is reason to double check that the tumor is located where they think it is - and if it's not located there, it may be operable after all. I'm afraid to hope, but I'm sure as hell gonna grasp at any straw I can.

----------


## Lissou

> Took my kitty to the vet this morning. She has an inoperable bladder tumor, and the vet says she probably only has a few months left to live.[...] Apparently there is reason to double check that the tumor is located where they think it is - and if it's not located there, it may be operable after all. I'm afraid to hope, but I'm sure as hell gonna grasp at any straw I can.


I'm going to hope with you! My own cat George has a catscan yesterday and he also has a tumor.His is inoperable for sure, it apparently started in his sinus but broke through the bone into the brain, leading to brain lesions and to the weird behavior I noticed (and all the tests that ensued).
He has a few weeks left to live and I was also given some quality of life meds for him.
I'm going to send all my hope your way that Bob's tumor is actually operable. In the meantime I know we'll both give our furbabies all the love they can bear <3

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## tomandtish

> Took my kitty to the vet this morning. She has an inoperable bladder tumor, and the vet says she probably only has a few months left to live. I was given some anti-inflammatory medicines to give her that will hopefully make it less unpleasant for her to urinate, but it's purely a quality of life thing.
> 
> Bob (that's her name) has been my best friend for the last 13 and a half years, and has been with me through some of the best and worst times of my life. I really hate the idea that I'm going to lose her sooner rather than later and I just kinda hate the entire world right now.
> 
> Edit: The vet called back and wants me to bring her back in for an ultrasound tomorrow. Apparently there is reason to double check that the tumor is located where they think it is - and if it's not located there, it may be operable after all. I'm afraid to hope, but I'm sure as hell gonna grasp at any straw I can.


Fingers crossed it work out for you. Our Boston Terrier was diagnosed with a massive bleeding liver tumor last November (after a rushed trip to an after hours vet). They got the bleeding stopped then, but everyone we spoke to agreed that the nature of the tumor meant 1) it was almost certainly malignant and 2) surgery probably wouldn't extend his life more than a month or two, and he'd spend a huge amount of time recovering from the surgery. 

We lost him in April when the tumor started bleeding again. Fortunately it was a painless way to go.

----------


## LaZodiac

I feel invisible.

*Spoiler: elaboration, grousing, and so on*
Show

It's hard to reach out to people. I've got to try and try and find writer's group to improve, but I'm afraid no one will care. I have tried a little to get people to notice the streams I do, but no one bites. I've tried to advertise places but it never works. I know this sort of stuff relies on luck, but it... I don't know. It feels like I should have at least garnered some attention by now from what I do do. I've been at this for like five years, and no one cares. 

I put in effort to make what I do good and no one cares, and it gets to the point where I feel the issue must be myself. That I'm intrinsically wrong or bad or just too stupid, and that if anyone who wasn't me tried these things it'd work out perfect for them. It's... hard to live like this sometimes. I'm able to fight it off at times but it's... just too much sometimes.

I don't know what would even help, really...

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I feel invisible.
> 
> *Spoiler: elaboration, grousing, and so on*
> Show
> 
> It's hard to reach out to people. I've got to try and try and find writer's group to improve, but I'm afraid no one will care. I have tried a little to get people to notice the streams I do, but no one bites. I've tried to advertise places but it never works. I know this sort of stuff relies on luck, but it... I don't know. It feels like I should have at least garnered some attention by now from what I do do. I've been at this for like five years, and no one cares. 
> 
> I put in effort to make what I do good and no one cares, and it gets to the point where I feel the issue must be myself. That I'm intrinsically wrong or bad or just too stupid, and that if anyone who wasn't me tried these things it'd work out perfect for them. It's... hard to live like this sometimes. I'm able to fight it off at times but it's... just too much sometimes.
> 
> I don't know what would even help, really...


I'm so sorry to hear that Zodi.  :Frown:  But have you tried Wattpad and Hubpages. They're both wonderful writing communities.  :Smile:

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## dafrca

> I feel invisible.
> 
> *Spoiler: elaboration, grousing, and so on*
> Show
> 
> It's hard to reach out to people. I've got to try and try and find writer's group to improve, but I'm afraid no one will care. I have tried a little to get people to notice the streams I do, but no one bites. I've tried to advertise places but it never works. I know this sort of stuff relies on luck, but it... I don't know. It feels like I should have at least garnered some attention by now from what I do do. I've been at this for like five years, and no one cares. 
> 
> I put in effort to make what I do good and no one cares, and it gets to the point where I feel the issue must be myself. That I'm intrinsically wrong or bad or just too stupid, and that if anyone who wasn't me tried these things it'd work out perfect for them. It's... hard to live like this sometimes. I'm able to fight it off at times but it's... just too much sometimes.
> 
> I don't know what would even help, really...


I have felt this over the last few months. It is hard because we do not get to see/hear all the true feedback we should. Sometimes people think something positive but don't share it for many reasons. Just know I am sure you are reaching more people than you realize.  :Small Smile:

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## Tvtyrant

> I feel invisible.
> 
> *Spoiler: elaboration, grousing, and so on*
> Show
> 
> It's hard to reach out to people. I've got to try and try and find writer's group to improve, but I'm afraid no one will care. I have tried a little to get people to notice the streams I do, but no one bites. I've tried to advertise places but it never works. I know this sort of stuff relies on luck, but it... I don't know. It feels like I should have at least garnered some attention by now from what I do do. I've been at this for like five years, and no one cares. 
> 
> I put in effort to make what I do good and no one cares, and it gets to the point where I feel the issue must be myself. That I'm intrinsically wrong or bad or just too stupid, and that if anyone who wasn't me tried these things it'd work out perfect for them. It's... hard to live like this sometimes. I'm able to fight it off at times but it's... just too much sometimes.
> 
> I don't know what would even help, really...


Hi Zodi,

I think there are about three different components there working against you.

The first is that entertainment is the hardest industry, and it takes a long time. A good example is Greg Doucette, who was a pro body builder for decades before becoming a youtube personality. He also spent more then 5 years on youtube before it took off, and his instagram and twitter still aren't very popular. It could be 10 or even 20 more years of hard work to get into entertainment and make a name for yourself, and it could last a very short time if you did.

The second is depression and imposter syndrome. Feeling invisible and like life is meaningless is very much a sign of depression (I have the same issues myself.) It is hard, there is no trite response that will fix that.

Third is that you are putting the work in, which is the single hardest thing. Most people talk about what they would do, you actually are trying. That puts you above the majority of people in any area, but also means you can wear out or find your dreams unsatisfying in the end where if they remained dreams they can never disappoint you. 

I think making a group where everyone agrees to put in as much time working on each other's works as their own would be the best way forward. Some sort of group deadline for accountability, group editing and reviews where everyone has to hand in their own chapter and an edit of another person's chapter each month/quarter/week/whatever. That seems like the best way to whip productivity out of people, and people will care about you because you care about them. But those kinds of relationships are hard to set up, I can't promise you will succeed but if you set up those kinds of parameters on Meetup I am sure you will get some biters.

----------


## HalfTangible

> I feel invisible.
> 
> *Spoiler: elaboration, grousing, and so on*
> Show
> 
> It's hard to reach out to people. I've got to try and try and find writer's group to improve, but I'm afraid no one will care. I have tried a little to get people to notice the streams I do, but no one bites. I've tried to advertise places but it never works. I know this sort of stuff relies on luck, but it... I don't know. It feels like I should have at least garnered some attention by now from what I do do. I've been at this for like five years, and no one cares. 
> 
> I put in effort to make what I do good and no one cares, and it gets to the point where I feel the issue must be myself. That I'm intrinsically wrong or bad or just too stupid, and that if anyone who wasn't me tried these things it'd work out perfect for them. It's... hard to live like this sometimes. I'm able to fight it off at times but it's... just too much sometimes.
> 
> I don't know what would even help, really...


From someone who has considered himself worthless throughout his entire life and only recently became any good at anything

Remember: it's never *you*, it's always *your approach*. Learn a new approach, things change. Viruses, certain genres of porn and social media sites aside, the internet is one of the greatest things humanity has ever come up with. Ways to improve your skills and yourself have never been easier to access. If you feel you're lacking in some area, look up ways to get better at it. If you want to improve your physique, look up exercise and nutrition videos.

Streaming seems like it'd be the easiest job in the world for anyone who plays vidya but in actuality it is ludicrously hard to break into. The big names (Ninja, Pokimane and the like) are few and far between because it is very hard to be entertaining while playing a game. If you are undaunted by this and really want to make Streaming what you do, I would recommend looking up ways to advertise your stream to as many interested parties as you can. If you're getting viewers but they're not staying, look into ways to improve your ability to entertain live. One idea I came across was to record yourself talking (nothing playing, just talk to yourself into your camera) for 10 minutes. Then, after a day, watch the video, see how you can improve, and then repeat the process.

Set up a time to stream on a consistent basis and advertise it everywhere you can. People who want to watch you stream are more likely to if they know when you're streaming and where. Also, chase trends; stream what's currently popular. It's cynical, but it gets results. To this day my best performing youtube video is a reaction to the Dawn of War 3 trailer, released within the same week (that last I checked was full of people laughing at me for the **** sound balancing that meant nobody could actually hear my reaction). It has 8.9k views. Next highest is an angry rant on Windows 10 that hit 897. Nothing else even broke 200.

Try a charity streaming event, or a gaming challenge. Stay awake and play games for 24 hours, or try a speedrun, or something similar.

That said, I gave up on my own attempts at streaming because having 0 watchers on every video from start to finish made me feel awful. 

Writing is a weird industry. You'll hear indie authors say all the time that it wasn't until book 3 that they started actually getting into the black. I asked one of my new favorite authors if this is true. She said that it took her 5 or 6 before her numbers really started climbing. And that's in part because writing books is cumulative; when you attract a new customer, if they go looking for your other books, and they find another 4, that's another 4 potential sales. Or 10. Or 50. Hell, I'm on the 23rd book of aforementioned fantasy author. All because I liked the sassy talking sword in her first book. And if I hadn't found the 2nd or 3rd book in her series, I wouldn't have kept reading. That's 22 sales she'd have missed out on.

All of which is a long-winded way to say these things take time and patience. Like Tyrant said, you're putting work into it, you're already ahead of the curve. Hell, your book is published; mine is still mid-editing on a draft that isn't the final.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I have felt this over the last few months. It is hard because we do not get to see/hear all the true feedback we should. Sometimes people think something positive but don't share it for many reasons. Just know I am sure you are reaching more people than you realize.


Thank you. It's just... difficult, sometimes.




> Hi Zodi,
> 
> I think there are about three different components there working against you.


Thank you. I'm not sure how much good it'd be to try and make my own group like that due to the "no one really notices me" issue, but it's an idea. It also feels very typical that "ah of course, the best solution is for me to do it myself" which has been the answer to everything in my entire life, which I'm just tired of at this point. Sometimes I don't want to be the one who does all the hard work.




> From someone who has considered himself worthless throughout his entire life and only recently became any good at anything
> 
> Remember: it's never *you*, it's always *your approach*. Learn a new approach, things change. Viruses, certain genres of porn and social media sites aside, the internet is one of the greatest things humanity has ever come up with. Ways to improve your skills and yourself have never been easier to access. If you feel you're lacking in some area, look up ways to get better at it. If you want to improve your physique, look up exercise and nutrition videos.


Thanks. All of your videos are more successful than anything I've ever done so don't kick yourself too hard. I do do charity stuff in my streams, it's just charity for me (fundraising top surgery), which is a thing people do all the time- but when I do it, and even send out feelers for other trans folk to at least retweeted it so their large fanbases can help, the completely ignore it. So it has to be me, right? Also don't stream for 24 hours you'll die, or at least severely hurt yourself.

Your stuff about writing just makes me think that the effort I put into my writing is wasted. Should just get a whole bunch out at once.

----------


## HalfTangible

> Thanks. All of your videos are more successful than anything I've ever done so don't kick yourself too hard. I do do charity stuff in my streams, it's just charity for me (fundraising top surgery), which is a thing people do all the time- but when I do it, and even send out feelers for other trans folk to at least retweeted it so their large fanbases can help, the completely ignore it. So it has to be me, right? Also don't stream for 24 hours you'll die, or at least severely hurt yourself.


*shrug* 319 subscribers is more than the 30 I have.

For the 24hr thing I was thinking something like Extra Life. It's not a permanent thing, it's a challenge.

And no, don't even think like that. It's never you (not saying 'don't self-improve', just saying 'thinking you're the problem doesn't help'). Reaching out to people with more followers than you is a good idea that costs you nothing but as you've noticed it's not necessarily going to help. There are other ways to bring in viewers; tease your streams, set up a consistent schedule, post clips along with the full VODs, etc. There's videos and guides on this stuff all over the internet.




> Your stuff about writing just makes me think that the effort I put into my writing is wasted. Should just get a whole bunch out at once.


Not what I meant. Releasing each book in your series as they're ready (rather than all at once) is the better option for a number of reasons. You can gauge audience reaction (because you'll be getting sales as you go regardless) and adjust future entries, you keep your task hard but manageable (writing a full five book series in one go is a lot harder than writing the first book for what I hope are obvious reasons), and a bunch of books being released on the same day is a massive red flag. My point was that it will bear real fruit once you're more established.

Didn't you tell me once Horikoshi was about to give up on writing entirely before he penned MHA? You have a book out and I know you have others planned/in the works. It hasn't been a waste so long as you haven't given up.

----------


## Velaryon

Update on my cat: the ultrasound did not reveal a tumor, so they did another urinalysis and sent it to another lab for processing. It turns out the inoperable tumor was a misdiagnosis and she just had a particularly bad and antibiotic-resistant UTI. It seems to be taken care of now, so with any luck she has years of life left.

Which is good because hardly anything else is good in my life right now and I desperately need the companionship.

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## Lissou

> Update on my cat: the ultrasound did not reveal a tumor, so they did another urinalysis and sent it to another lab for processing. It turns out the inoperable tumor was a misdiagnosis and she just had a particularly bad and antibiotic-resistant UTI. It seems to be taken care of now, so with any luck she has years of life left.
> 
> Which is good because hardly anything else is good in my life right now and I desperately need the companionship.


That's great news! I mean the UTI can't have been pleasant but it's so much better than the alternative. I hope she has many years left :D

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## Velaryon

Thank you for the kind words. I agree that the UTI is unfortunate but it's much preferable to the other diagnosis. This kitty has been through a lot with me and I'm absolutely not ready to let her go yet.

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## Quill

> It turns out the inoperable tumor was a misdiagnosis


My friend had this happen with her fluffy gray boy as well! False cancer diagnoses are the worst. Sorry to hear that you've dealt with such stressful news about your pet, and I'm very happy to hear she's all right.

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## 2D8HP

On Thursday I heard two bits of sad news, one was that my personal cursing Ann Landers/swearing Dear Abbys 22 year old daughter died during a nap, another blow to a lady whos had her share (two autistic children, one that was violent, widowed due to a drug overdose 13 years ago). 

The other bit of sad news is that my roommate, whom Im very fond of, has a large (book sized) tumor near her uterus, within a month shes scheduled to get it and her ovaries removed.
If you catch me crying thats why she told me at lunch (her treat).
She also said I guess its a good thing the guy I was dating already broke up with me, hed be gone with this news, and Id have been a good Mom, too late now.

Ive already promised to take her to the hospital, if the surgery falls on a weekend and I dont come back to my wife and her kids on the weekend that will like signal to my wife that her efforts at reconciliation are in vain, and with her wealth she may hire a lawyer and take most of my income, meaning living in my Moms basement for me.

While I love my roommate were not lovers (though shes hinted pretty strongly that if I wasnt married that could change), just hugs and hand-holding and effectively Id be exchanging one roommate relationship with another, just as me and my wife havent kissed on the lips in over 18 years, neither have me and roommate (Ive only kissed her on her cheek once, when she was crying), Ive kissed my wife on the cheek more, but not on the lips after a stillbirth 18 years ago (in her words I dont have those feelings anymore).

Still a mere roommate doesnt give you blankets and make your bed, and cook breakfast and dinner (as both have done for me), so were something beyond just that, and (especially when she lives elsewhere doing her house/pet sitting gigs, like this week) when me and my roommate go to meals, shopping, a concert, and a movie together, it feels like dating - but its not, It only counts as a date if I wear a dress.

Still, during my own recovery from a potentially fatal illness my roommate was comforting when my wife was the opposite (it was worse than my being alone, which is why I moved out), but my wife has since I moved back part time really tried harder (for example she holds my hand which she hasnt done for over a decade before).

My roommate recovered from cancer once before, and the tumor could be that, if it is and it ruptures then cancerous spores will travel throughout her body, but even if the tumor is benign shell be unable to lift much for a few weeks. She hopes to get a female friend to come and help but doesnt yet have a promise, theres also a male roommate in the front of the house (away from our bedrooms which are adjacent), but he has a habit of going hermit and hiding for days (we suspect he secretly drinks again).

My wifes kids are 16 and five years old, have never known their real (her words) father (the donor), and both have always known me as Dad (and she hasnt told the younger one yet), and both have indicated they dont want to lose me.

So, shall I stand by and care for my best friend, or maintain my marriage longer?

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## dehro

To be honest, that doesn't sound like a marriage...and your children can keep their relationship with you mostly intact if the separation/divorce is as amicable as can be.
on the other hand, the potential for further heartache lies on both paths and i feel unqualified to give much more than my sympathies and a virtual hug

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## Tarmor

> So, shall I stand by and care for my best friend, or maintain my marriage longer?


2D8, Only you can make that decision, and I don't envy you the choice. You have had a taste of a new life by moving out, and I feel that's been a fantastic boost to you, [how do I find the right words]... to your confidence, to your outlook/future, to your life, giving you hope...

I also worry/am concerned that your wife is holding you back. That she doesn't want you to make the break because of selfish reasons that are more about her, than about you, your marriage and/or "your" children. (This may not be the case, just my personal feelings, which are influenced by the family and friends I've seen go through similar things, but I don't know you in the same way.) At 16, I'm sure the older one knows of the tension in the relationship, and it's great that she doesn't want to lose you. (Can you, or have you, talked to her about the future and what's happening, *away from* your wife.) If you move out permanently, that may make it harder to see the kids, but shouldn't make it impossible. Both kids will put pressure on their Mum to be able to see you.

The only thing I can think of, and (sorry) I can't remember if you have already done this, but what if you don't go back to your wife for a weekend (or two). It could be worth staying away and seeing if that helps you find your future path, and possibly getting a better idea of what your wife is thinking. 

You can't live the rest of your life being married part-time when it's not what you want. At some point you need to make a break and separate/divorce/whatever... for your well-being and future.

----------


## Form

> On Thursday I heard two bits of sad news, one was that my personal cursing Ann Landers/swearing Dear Abbys 22 year old daughter died during a nap, another blow to a lady whos had her share (two autistic children, one that was violent, widowed due to a drug overdose 13 years ago). 
> 
> The other bit of sad news is that my roommate, whom Im very fond of, has a large (book sized) tumor near her uterus, within a month shes scheduled to get it and her ovaries removed.
> If you catch me crying thats why she told me at lunch (her treat).
> She also said I guess its a good thing the guy I was dating already broke up with me, hed be gone with this news, and Id have been a good Mom, too late now.


I'm sorry to hear that. Let me first say that my sympathies go to you and yours before I move on to the rest of your post. We tend to feel a portion of their pain when things are difficult for the people we care about.




> ..., and with her wealth she may hire a lawyer and take most of my income, meaning living in my Moms basement for me.


Yeah, I wouldn't make that assumption. You'd do well to talk to an attorney yourself and ask them about it before making any assumptions about how a separation might go, be it an amicable one or otherwise. 




> While I love my roommate were not lovers (though shes hinted pretty strongly that if I wasnt married that could change), just hugs and hand-holding and effectively Id be exchanging one roommate relationship with another, just as me and my wife havent kissed on the lips in over 18 years, neither have me and roommate (Ive only kissed her on her cheek once, when she was crying), Ive kissed my wife on the cheek more, but not on the lips after a stillbirth 18 years ago (*in her words I dont have those feelings anymore*).
> 
> Still, during my own recovery from a potentially fatal illness my roommate was comforting when *my wife was the opposite* (it was worse than my being alone, which is why I moved out), but my wife has since I moved back part time really tried harder (for example she holds my hand which she hasnt done for over a decade before).
> 
> My wifes kids are 16 and five years old, have never known *their real (her words) father (the donor)*, and both have always known me as Dad (and she hasnt told the younger one yet), and both have indicated they dont want to lose me.
> 
> So, shall I stand by and care for my best friend, or maintain my *marriage* longer?


What marriage? From the sound of it your marriage fell apart years ago. Are you happy with the way things are now? Because I get the impression you really aren't.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> So, shall I stand by and care for my best friend, or maintain my marriage longer?


Hello 2D8HP. It is good to see you again. The board patrons have changed and there are fewer people I think of as a familiar face regularly appearing. 

My first piece of advice is to not treat these two things as a dichotomy. Should you care for a friend in need, yes or no? Full Stop. Should you maintain your marriage, yes or no? Full Stop. 

To the first, of course you should try to be a helpful and supportive presence in the life of someone for whom you care when they are going through one of the biggest challenges they've faced. 

To the second, you really have to sit down with your spouse and determine what staying together even looks like. I say that because the situation, as you've explained in previous posts, looks very much like what could at best be called 'maintain' and perhaps more accurately called 'putting off addressing.' What kind of future does she envision? What, if you stayed married, would you envision? Are these two visions compatible (within the framework of negotiation and accommodation you both think could actually occur)? Would the level of emotional intimacy (and it sounds like it is the emotional intimacy that is the primary sticking point, although it should be said that incompatibility in physical intimacy is a perfectly legitimate reason for a partnership to be challenged and the downfall of plenty of relationships) she could provide (particularly if it is a negotiated accommodation) be enough for you to be happy?

Both of these should, IMO, be answered separately. I say that because there seems to be a hint of 'should I leave my wife, because I think I might want to get romantically involved with this friend?' in your post. To that, I say you should really make your decision about your marriage without that prospect in mind. If for no other reason than because it might not happen (it sounds like she was pursuing someone else as recently as a few months ago, that doesn't sound like a sure bet). Who knows how compatible the two of you will look to each other X months from now, with (assuming you went forward with the divorce) you working through the end of your marriage and she working through her health issues. 

Beyond that, if you stay to help your friend through her health crises, I feel she deserves to know that said aid is being done without (even the perception of) expectation of romantic reciprocation. I say that one from personal experience -- At one point a couple decades ago I had a female friend have a major health crises (within a few years after a divorce where she lost 75-90% of her friend base), and I helped out rather significantly (because 'she has no one else'). Things got rather muddles and we ended up together in the short term, but it ended up souring any real chance of a long term relationship (which honestly wouldn't have worked out in the end either, but still not a good way to rule it out). 

Anyways, that is my advice. As others have said, if you do go ahead with the divorce, don't assume it can't be amicable; and if it isn't, don't assume you will walk away with nothing. Take care and keep on keeping on. We're pulling for you.

----------


## 2D8HP

> To be honest, that doesn't sound like a marriage...and your children can keep their relationship with you mostly intact if the separation/divorce is as amicable as can be.
> on the other hand, the potential for further heartache lies on both paths and i feel unqualified to give much more than my sympathies and a virtual hug



Thank you for your kind advice dehro




> 2D8, Only you can make that decision, and I don't envy you the choice. You have had a taste of a new life by moving out, and I feel that's been a fantastic boost to you, [how do I find the right words]... to your confidence, to your outlook/future, to your life, giving you hope...
> 
> I also worry/am concerned that your wife is holding you back. That she doesn't want you to make the break because of selfish reasons that are more about her, than about you, your marriage and/or "your" children. (This may not be the case, just my personal feelings, which are influenced by the family and friends I've seen go through similar things, but I don't know you in the same way.) At 16, I'm sure the older one knows of the tension in the relationship, and it's great that she doesn't want to lose you. (Can you, or have you, talked to her about the future and what's happening, *away from* your wife.) If you move out permanently, that may make it harder to see the kids, but shouldn't make it impossible. Both kids will put pressure on their Mum to be able to see you.
> 
> The only thing I can think of, and (sorry) I can't remember if you have already done this, but what if you don't go back to your wife for a weekend (or two). It could be worth staying away and seeing if that helps you find your future path, and possibly getting a better idea of what your wife is thinking.



I did stay away for a few full weeks before before being drawn back on weekends at my wifes request for the kids.

While I was gone I cried a lot less and the kids cried more




> You can't live the rest of your life being married part-time when it's not what you want. At some point you need to make a break and separate/divorce/whatever... for your well-being and future.



Thank you for your kind advice Tarmor




> I'm sorry to hear that. Let me first say that my sympathies go to you and yours before I move on to the rest of your post. We tend to feel a portion of their pain when things are difficult for the people we care about.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I wouldn't make that assumption. You'd do well to talk to an attorney yourself and ask them about it before making any assumptions about how a separation might go, be it an amicable one or otherwise.



I did speak to an attorney, a divorce very likely means so much of my income will go to my ex-wife that Ill be unable to pay rent anywhere near or safe, shell keep her wealth as much of it is inherited and Ill be giving her most of mine.






> What marriage? From the sound of it your marriage fell apart years ago. Are you happy with the way things are now? Because I get the impression you really aren't.



No, I wasnt happy, thats why I moved out.

Thanks for your kind words Form




> Hello 2D8HP. It is good to see you again. The board patrons have changed and there are fewer people I think of as a familiar face regularly appearing. 
> 
> My first piece of advice is to not treat these two things as a dichotomy. Should you care for a friend in need, yes or no? Full Stop. Should you maintain your marriage, yes or no? Full Stop. 
> 
> To the first, of course you should try to be a helpful and supportive presence in the life of someone for whom you care when they are going through one of the biggest challenges they've faced. 
> 
> To the second, you really have to sit down with your spouse and determine what staying together even looks like. I say that because the situation, as you've explained in previous posts, looks very much like what could at best be called 'maintain' and perhaps more accurately called 'putting off addressing.' What kind of future does she envision? What, if you stayed married, would you envision? Are these two visions compatible (within the framework of negotiation and accommodation you both think could actually occur)? Would the level of emotional intimacy (and it sounds like it is the emotional intimacy that is the primary sticking point, although it should be said that incompatibility in physical intimacy is a perfectly legitimate reason for a partnership to be challenged and the downfall of plenty of relationships) she could provide (particularly if it is a negotiated accommodation) be enough for you to be happy?
> 
> Both of these should, IMO, be answered separately. I say that because there seems to be a hint of 'should I leave my wife, because I think I might want to get romantically involved with this friend?' in your post. To that, I say you should really make your decision about your marriage without that prospect in mind. If for no other reason than because it might not happen (it sounds like she was pursuing someone else as recently as a few months ago, that doesn't sound like a sure bet). Who knows how compatible the two of you will look to each other X months from now, with (assuming you went forward with the divorce) you working through the end of your marriage and she working through her health issues. 
> ...



Thanks for your kindness Willie the Duck

Yes, I have indeed fallen in love with my roommate and I had plans to pursue a romantic relationship with her (specifically an engagement ring just before Valentines Day), but with her illness I think she needs a friend now far more than a wound-be lover, and the possibility of death may cloud her judgment, plus makes it too much pressure on her for now.

If its hopeless and it looks like she will soon die or if shes recovered and it seems shed welcome a romantic relationship then Id likely offer her a ring, but while her life is in limbo doesnt seem the time and its best to remain a caring platonic friend

----------


## HalfTangible

@2D8HP: ... Prefacing this by saying *I could be very wrong*, but if my opinion matters at all: 

*Spoiler*
Show

From where I'm standing, it seems that your wife has neglected and abused you for years. The picture you've painted in this thread over the years is of a highly dysfunctional marriage wherein you are a nuisance to her, and all she cares about is what you give her. The convenience of someone helping to raise her kids.

*scrubbed* this seems a clear case of neglect and abuse, at least emotionally if not physically. Your children make things more complicated; they've done nothing wrong and will inevitably be hurt by a divorce. My grandfather cheated on and left my grandmother, and it *still* hurts my father to this day, long after both of them died. It might go better in your case, and they will go through short-term pain now in exchange for a more fulfilling relationship with you down the line, but... well, either way's a gamble.


Ultimately, the right answer is up to you; you know your circumstances better than any stranger on the internet.

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## Tarmor

> Ultimately, the right answer is up to you; you know your circumstances better than any stranger on the internet.


I often feel disappointed that "we" (that's a big general forum 'we', not just you HalfTangible or 2D8) are internet strangers. There's a lot of people of the Forum that I feel like I could sit down in a Cafe or somewhere and have a great chat with. It would be great to get to know a lot of people better, but maybe we wouldn't click and be good friends if we could meet. I don't know. But there are a lot of us who don't know everything that's going on in everyone else's lives, but we do care!

I'd love to meet up with you 2D8 and talk about life and relationships. My life has not been what you have gone through, but my wife's previous marriage is similar, and I've seen the changes in her choosing something different for her future. We're on opposite sides of the world but I'm happy to trade PM's or email if you were willing to talk. We probably don't have anything in common apart from the relationships around us, but I like to think that we'd find something else.

I'd love to discuss writing with Zodi. Writing's always a struggle (as is success however we would each define it), and like others have said - don't give up. Sorry, I haven't read your book (I should), but you DO have talent. You've done a lot online! You have something published. You have subscribers. You have support from many of us in the forum even if we don't all reach out to our keyboards and say something. I started a writing novel 30 years ago, and I'm still determined that at some time I will finish it! I know I have one person who wants to know how it ends, and if nothing else, I want to give them the entire story! 

Best wishes to you all with cats! I am very much a cat person, and I know the feeling of losing pets. I wish you (and them) well. Mri'fa-o! 
Since most people likely won't know the reference, it's "Good dreaming" in the Higher Singing of the Folk (Cats).

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## 3SecondCultist

Hey all! Just thought I would check in. I read this thread every few weeks, catching up on peoples stories.

2D8, Im really truly sorry to read about what youve gone through. What you are still going through, Im sure. Ive never met you in person, but Ive been thinking about you more in recent days. I have to hope that things are going to work out for you. Ill echo what some folks here have said and say that from what Ive heard, it sounds like your marriage has had serious problems for some time. Getting the space you needed sounds like a smart decision. 

There are no easy solutions, but I have faith in you. The other posters here have given you what I think sounds like good advice: dont treat the situation with your wife and your roommate as an either/or situation, you are entitled to your own happiness, and deserve to find out who you are outside the shadow of a partner who denies you that feeling. Wanting to feel love in the sun isnt selfish - its human. I dont know of anyone that could put someone else first always, forever.

Now for my 2c. I dont have kids, but I was 15 when my parents divorced. It was nasty: my mom cheated on and left my dad, and it blew up everything for a good long while. Neither of them dealt with it particularly well. But what I remember the most about that time was that my dad _tried so hard_. He came home one day and just broke down weeping and I held him up, and strangely I felt closer to him in that moment than I ever had. Because I _saw him_, and I knew how much he loved all of us. There was beauty in that, and I cant imagine what my relationship with him would be now if he and my mom had stayed together. Theyd certainly be less happy.

I guess what Im saying is not to hold off ending a chapter of your life for the sake of your children. Time will wear away the red and ragged parts, but you will find your own relationship with your kids. It may take time, but youll get there.

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## Bartmanhomer

Hello everyone. I have very sad news to tell you. I heard someone who used to go to my childhood school has passed away a few days ago. He just got hit by a subway train due to someone he has conflicts with. I'm very sad and I can't handle death very well but I'm going to be online but not feeling in the mood at the moment  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

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## 2D8HP

> Hello
> []



All condolences to you Bartmanhomer

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## Bartmanhomer

> All condolences to you Bartmanhomer


Thank you. I feel a little bit better compared to Friday.

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## AstralSeal

I am sorry if this is in the wrong place. I need to vent, and I'd also like some advice. My mother has always ignored my struggles. Recently she suggested some ADHD resources to my brother. I feel a bit jealous because she has always ignored or mocked my problems but when he has an issue she helps him. In addition, I feel a bit jealous that he has a disorder to explain his behaviour and I am just annoying and need to stop being myself. Does anyone have any tips for managing jealousy? 

*Spoiler: The Long Version/Vent*
Show

 I learned recently that my mother thought she had ADHD and then a few days after that I learned she sent resources to my brother on how to get diagnosed for ADHD. I told her it was heritable*. She knows I have been struggling with school. But she decides to send resources to my brother. And both of them think they have it and neither has researched it. Meanwhile, for the last three months I was having trouble in school and with other stuff, and she asked if I was depressed before yelling at me for being irritable. And then when my mood swung the other way she asked if I was manic and then completely forgot it happened when I tried to question her about it recently. Where are my resources for depression and bipolar? If she thought I had serious, life-altering mental illnesses why didn't she look into them like she did for him? And this is not the first time she had overlooked or dismissed a problem I had. 
    I used to have tics, and she would get mad at me for having them, because the noise and the motions bothered her, but everyone else is allowed to make loud noises even though they hurt my ears. And I couldn't control my tics but she can control how loud she talks and how loud the radio is. And she was told by a psychologist that I might have dysgraphia and then she chose to ignore that. And she keeps trying to get me to make friends, and join clubs, and associate with my extended family, but I don't want to. I don't like being around strangers. And then she makes me feel bad about not wanting to socialize. And everyone makes fun of my phobias. And I get mocked for hating needles, even though they do hurt. Why do I have to argue that I am feeling pain? And I'm always getting in trouble for not liking her food, but the flavours are too strong. And the smells of so many foods are repulsive, and I'll try to leave the room so that they can enjoy their food and I won't feel sick, but then she tells me I'm being rude. And if I eat fish and they don't like the smell I get in trouble. And she knows I hate eyes and I hate when the pictures are watching me, but she makes fun of me when I get rid of them. And when I can't sleep properly she just tells me to go to bed earlier, but I still can't sleep. And they keep making joke statements or ask rhetorical question and then they get mad when I answer, but they know I can't always tell when they are joking and that I can't resist answering the question. But when my brother thinks he has ADHD suddenly she is supportive. And when he talks about things she listens to him and doesn't try to get out of the conversation. And when he complains she listens to him, but if I complain I'm whining and I need to stop. If you made it to the end of this, sorry. I know it's a bit disorganized. I just needed to share this somewhere. 
*I don't have ADHD. But since I was struggling in school and I told her it was hereditary, she could have at least considered it.

----------


## Form

> I am sorry if this is in the wrong place. I need to vent, and I'd also like some advice. My mother has always ignored my struggles. Recently she suggested some ADHD resources to my brother. I feel a bit jealous because she has always ignored or mocked my problems but when he has an issue she helps him. In addition, I feel a bit jealous that he has a disorder to explain his behaviour and I am just annoying and need to stop being myself. Does anyone have any tips for managing jealousy? 
> 
> *Spoiler: The Long Version/Vent*
> Show
> 
>  I learned recently that my mother thought she had ADHD and then a few days after that I learned she sent resources to my brother on how to get diagnosed for ADHD. I told her it was heritable*. She knows I have been struggling with school. But she decides to send resources to my brother. And both of them think they have it and neither has researched it. Meanwhile, for the last three months I was having trouble in school and with other stuff, and she asked if I was depressed before yelling at me for being irritable. And then when my mood swung the other way she asked if I was manic and then completely forgot it happened when I tried to question her about it recently. Where are my resources for depression and bipolar? If she thought I had serious, life-altering mental illnesses why didn't she look into them like she did for him? And this is not the first time she had overlooked or dismissed a problem I had. 
>     I used to have tics, and she would get mad at me for having them, because the noise and the motions bothered her, but everyone else is allowed to make loud noises even though they hurt my ears. And I couldn't control my tics but she can control how loud she talks and how loud the radio is. And she was told by a psychologist that I might have dysgraphia and then she chose to ignore that. And she keeps trying to get me to make friends, and join clubs, and associate with my extended family, but I don't want to. I don't like being around strangers. And then she makes me feel bad about not wanting to socialize. And everyone makes fun of my phobias. And I get mocked for hating needles, even though they do hurt. Why do I have to argue that I am feeling pain? And I'm always getting in trouble for not liking her food, but the flavours are too strong. And the smells of so many foods are repulsive, and I'll try to leave the room so that they can enjoy their food and I won't feel sick, but then she tells me I'm being rude. And if I eat fish and they don't like the smell I get in trouble. And she knows I hate eyes and I hate when the pictures are watching me, but she makes fun of me when I get rid of them. And when I can't sleep properly she just tells me to go to bed earlier, but I still can't sleep. And they keep making joke statements or ask rhetorical question and then they get mad when I answer, but they know I can't always tell when they are joking and that I can't resist answering the question. But when my brother thinks he has ADHD suddenly she is supportive. And when he talks about things she listens to him and doesn't try to get out of the conversation. And when he complains she listens to him, but if I complain I'm whining and I need to stop. If you made it to the end of this, sorry. I know it's a bit disorganized. I just needed to share this somewhere. 
> *I don't have ADHD. But since I was struggling in school and I told her it was hereditary, she could have at least considered it.


I can't say anything about your family's dynamic or the interactions between you as I don't know enough to say anything of value, so I'm not going touch on that. Do you at least have a friend, someone you get along well with, that you can talk to and turn to for emotional support? Aside from that, is there a guidance counselor at your school whom you can talk to about these things? If you feel you're not getting enough or the right kind of support from your family then it can be useful to turn to a trusted person outside of your direct family, such as a guidance counselor.

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## AstralSeal

I have tried to talk to friends about stuff, but they never seem to understand. They think these things I do are just quirks and I can't seem to make them understand how much misery they cause me. And when they do acknowledge that I am not happy they blame it on the pandemic even though these are problems I've had since before high school and they always ignore it when I tell them that the social isolation of the pandemic has been really good for me. And recently I brought up the ADHD jealousy thing, and one of my friends said maybe I feel jealous because I have ADHD. Except I have researched ADHD and I do not have the symptoms and I said that. And then she said the same thing about how maybe I have ADHD. And then in the same conversation when I brought up possibly having dysgraphia she told me not to worry about the past and that if I had made it this far it didn't matter.
One of my friends told me our university has free counselling, so I could try that. I just don't have a lot of faith in counsellors. I'll probably just get told to stop caring what other people think, get more sleep, and make new friends/join clubs. It seems to be the standard advice. 
Thank you for your suggestions. They are appreciated.

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## Bartmanhomer

> I have tried to talk to friends about stuff, but they never seem to understand. They think these things I do are just quirks and I can't seem to make them understand how much misery they cause me. And when they do acknowledge that I am not happy they blame it on the pandemic even though these are problems I've had since before high school and they always ignore it when I tell them that the social isolation of the pandemic has been really good for me. And recently I brought up the ADHD jealousy thing, and one of my friends said maybe I feel jealous because I have ADHD. Except I have researched ADHD and I do not have the symptoms and I said that. And then she said the same thing about how maybe I have ADHD. And then in the same conversation when I brought up possibly having dysgraphia she told me not to worry about the past and that if I had made it this far it didn't matter.
> One of my friends told me our university has free counseling, so I could try that. I just don't have a lot of faith in counselors. I'll probably just get told to stop caring what other people think, get more sleep, and make new friends/join clubs. It seems to be the standard advice. 
> Thank you for your suggestions. They are appreciated.


I got ADHD as well and it doesn't sound like they're very supportive of you. It's best to dump them.

Anyway, I feel so much better compared to a few days ago. I have spoken to a few people about the former student's death plus the staff member at my job today. I'm trying hard not to lash out my anger and blame people for it because I just can't handle death very well also the pandemic and today's society in addition to it. I'm glad that I'm talking about it now because it makes me feel better not to hold it in.  :Smile:

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## 2D8HP

Well, my roommates surgery is scheduled for February 14th (yes, on Valentines Day), and from a CT scan it increasingly looks like she has cancer, though a biopsy is still needed, but theyre likely to scoop out a lot (a full hysterectomy) in case.

My roommate is scared, she cries from fear and from physical pain (which is steadily getting worse).

We did have a nice time together the other week in Golden Gate Park visiting the tea garden and feeding a squirrel where she smiled a lot but did tell me shed like a memorial park bench, so yeah shes thinking death may be near.

She had cancer once before and seemed to beat it, but things dont look well.

This week a girlfriend of hers came by and kept her company, shed like more but they all have kids and live far away.

On Friday some of we men who live near all met in her bedroom and had sort of a living wake: me who is still a married man, our bartender whos known her for decades - but while he loves her hes in-love with his girlfriend and also has spoken of going back to his ex-wife, and her high school prom date in the 1980s - who loves her but is gay. So none of us her SO, but all men who love her. She was told that her surgeon would call (he didnt), and we were to be her brothers listening in and asking questions. Instead we made her laugh, and I brought her dinner.

Being who she was there was a benefit concert for her medical bills, organized by another man who loves her but is happily married.

Her long previous battle with cancer left her penniless but shes wealthy in friends but of all her many friends Im the only one who lives near, owns a car, and may get time off work.

Much has changed in the last year for me: the night of February 13th, 2021 was the evening my love for my wife faded away with her words of stop living in the past to me, and my future roommate was just a lady that had attended a few of the same parties as me back in the late 80s and who I had mutual friends with - since then my love for my wife has come back some while at the same time my love for my roommate has grown (and a third woman graced me with my first kiss in 18 years but I never fell in love with her, for me dates alone cant compete with domestic life).when I was more sick my roommate  was kind in words and deeds, in contrast to my wife whos reaction was to do research and make sure of financial matters.

I really dont know what would be the wisest course, and Ive doubt about what would be the most virtuous actions to take.

As of now I come to my wifes house on the weekend and teach her 17 year old son to drive, a boy whos always called me dad, and during the week Ive been taking a lot of time off just to be able to drive my roommate to her hospital visits and take her to meals and hold her hand when she cries.

None of this is easy.

----------


## Lycunadari

Not really looking for advise, just need a place to vent.

*Spoiler*
Show

I'm planning on telling my sister about being a CSA survivor today, and I'm extremely nervous. I've talked it through with my therapist, I'm as prepared as I can be, but I still don't feel ready. But I don't think I'll ever really feel ready. I've kept this secret for 10+ years (it happened when I was 7 but I had completely suppressed the memory for many years) and I'd sworn to myself that I'd never ever tell anyone about it- mostly to protect my abuser from the negative reaction of my family, but also because I'm worried of not being believed. But I've realised in therapy that keeping this secret is making me sick- literally, I've a bunch of mental health diagnoses as well as chronic pain and chronic fatigue, probably fibromyalgia; all things known to be correlated with trauma. I've been told by my therapist and other health professionals that I likely wont get better until I've "dealt" with the trauma. And a crucial part of that is to stop hiding this. I've done as much as I can with working on acceptance, dealing with triggers etc. All that's left is finally sharing this secret, so I don't have to carry this alone, so it can stop suffocating me. And I'm kind of running out of time- insurance will only pay for 6 more sessions with my therapist and I want to get it over with while I still have the help of my therapist to deal with any potential fallout.
But I kind of hate myself for not being able to keep the promise I made to myself (to never talk about it, ever). Hate myself because I'm going to ruin my sister's day. Hating myself for potentially ruining her (good) relationship with my abuser (who's another family member). I don't hate them. I don't want anyone else to hate them. I especially don't want anyone to hate them because of me. I can't say I've forgiven them- I don't know if I can ever fully forgive them. But I don't hate them, and I actually have a mostly-good relationship with them myself. Good with some ugly spots I prefer to ignore. I probably hate myself more than I hate them, which I realise is far from a healthy reaction...
But I need to do this. I need to do this so after 20 years I can finally truly start to heal. So the little hurt kid inside of me can finally heal. I'm just so f*cking scared.

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## LaZodiac

Hey, think of it this way.

You told us. You can tell your sister. You've got this; and holding this inside was just hurting you. It's better to clear that air.

And with regards to the "what if I ruin her day?" stuff... if she lets this ruin her day, that's on her. You're allowed to exist, and sometimes that includes something like this. You deserve catharsis.

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## Florian

@2D8HP:

Normally, some values like duty and so on are very good things and should be applauded. But they also need to be balanced by a good sense of self and when you feel comfortable with making certain sacrifizes. Reading your current dilemma, I get the feeling that you are too stuck in thinking about what it is you should do, how you are expected to decide and act instead of taking one or two steps back, thinking about what it is you want and also just listening to what other people want.

So your wife has decided that she basically wants your money and support but not you?
So the woman that would actually be interested in you will prolly not be able to have kids?

So, unless you define yourself by your role as a "family guy", what exactly is the problem?

You wife has decided against you as a person a long time ago.
The children can decide whether they keep treating you as their dad, they don't need you for this, just be ready to leave that door open.
The lady who actually cares about you can't bear any children. Does this really have anything to do with whetzher you can imagine spending your life with her?

So.....

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## Lycunadari

@LaZodiac: thank you, I think this gave me the little push I needed to actually talk to her.

Well, I did talk to her. Turns out she was actually also abused, by the same person and even around the same time.  :Small Frown:  That's a bit more solidarity than I'd hoped for... But talking helped, and hopefully it helped her as well, considering she has also never told anyone before.

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## Florian

> @LaZodiac: thank you, I think this gave me the little push I needed to actually talk to her.
> 
> Well, I did talk to her. Turns out she was actually also abused, by the same person and even around the same time.  That's a bit more solidarity than I'd hoped for... But talking helped, and hopefully it helped her as well, considering she has also never told anyone before.


Curious, right, that everyone always thinks they are alone, thge only victim, they are the one to blame and so on.

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## LaZodiac

> @LaZodiac: thank you, I think this gave me the little push I needed to actually talk to her.
> 
> Well, I did talk to her. Turns out she was actually also abused, by the same person and even around the same time.  That's a bit more solidarity than I'd hoped for... But talking helped, and hopefully it helped her as well, considering she has also never told anyone before.


Unfortunate, bittersweet, but still a happy moment, I feel. Glad things went well, hope you two can find a brighter path from here on out, now that this weight is lifted.

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## halfeye

> @LaZodiac: thank you, I think this gave me the little push I needed to actually talk to her.
> 
> Well, I did talk to her. Turns out she was actually also abused, by the same person and even around the same time.  That's a bit more solidarity than I'd hoped for... But talking helped, and hopefully it helped her as well, considering she has also never told anyone before.


I searched CSA, came up with all sorts of irrelevant stuff, what do you mean by it?

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## LaZodiac

> I searched CSA, came up with all sorts of irrelevant stuff, what do you mean by it?


*Spoiler: Potentially Triggering full form of an acronym*
Show

Childhood Sexual Abuse

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## Grey Watcher

I swear I'm suffering some kind of sympathetic exhaustion.

My fiancé got a week's worth of work this week and it's long, grueling twelve hour days.  We've been pretty broke lately so the oppurtunity to make $3,500 in a week was just too good to pass up, but he really can't keep up with this kind of thing the way he could when he was younger (understandable).  But somehow, _I'm_ also just completely exhausted and drained.  I'm supposed to helping keep up the house while he's out, which is more or less within my capabilities, but I just can't keep up.  (Ironically, I'm sleeping better lately, you'd think that'd help.)

I dunno, maybe it's that, maybe it's just everything getting to me.

I probably need a therapist, but I can't really bring myself to care that much, since therapy has just been a bunch of useless talking in circles anyway.

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## Liquor Box

> I swear I'm suffering some kind of sympathetic exhaustion.
> 
> My fiancé got a week's worth of work this week and it's long, grueling twelve hour days.  We've been pretty broke lately so the oppurtunity to make $3,500 in a week was just too good to pass up, but he really can't keep up with this kind of thing the way he could when he was younger (understandable).  But somehow, _I'm_ also just completely exhausted and drained.  I'm supposed to helping keep up the house while he's out, which is more or less within my capabilities, but I just can't keep up.  (Ironically, I'm sleeping better lately, you'd think that'd help.)
> 
> I dunno, maybe it's that, maybe it's just everything getting to me.
> 
> I probably need a therapist, but I can't really bring myself to care that much, since therapy has just been a bunch of useless talking in circles anyway.


I get the feeling that there may be more to this, not included in this post. But if you are exhausted after keeping the house, and it sounds like you are pretty unmotivated, perhaps a visit to your GP is best. They might be well placed to help you investigate whether more therapy would be helpful, or whether there's a physical problem which might be troubling you (like an underactive thyroid).

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## Grey Watcher

> I get the feeling that there may be more to this, not included in this post. But if you are exhausted after keeping the house, and it sounds like you are pretty unmotivated, perhaps a visit to your GP is best. They might be well placed to help you investigate whether more therapy would be helpful, or whether there's a physical problem which might be troubling you (like an underactive thyroid).


Nah, I had blood work a couple of months ago, nothing like that.  Plus I don't trust her.  Last time I saw her she just assumed I had back pain and seemed skeptical when I corrected her.  I need to get a new one I actually trust.

And yeah, there's more.  There's everything.

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## Liquor Box

> Nah, I had blood work a couple of months ago, nothing like that.  Plus I don't trust her.  Last time I saw her she just assumed I had back pain and seemed skeptical when I corrected her.  I need to get a new one I actually trust.
> 
> And yeah, there's more.  There's everything.


If you don't have much faith in your ordinary GP, why not try a different one?

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## Grey Watcher

> If you don't have much faith in your ordinary GP, why not try a different one?


I've been meaning to, but the sapped motivation (which, to be fair, isn't a problem confined to this week, it just feels worse) tends to keep me from it.

I dunno, just the medical problems and the inability to find work and everything else.  I just fundamentally don't get how other people, like, live.  Yeah, yeah, I know no one's life is as good as it looks on social media, but other people manage to, like, have jobs?  Get to 40 and have SOMETHING to show for it, even if that something is just "a whole lot of memories from all the stuff I did in my 20's and 30's".

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## Sir_Norbert

I know _that_ feeling, for sure. My mother was diagnosed with cancer when I was 24. I spent the next six years caring for her while working part-time -- sure, not exactly _nothing_, but also not a source of great memories. Then I was left with nothing except depression and I couldn't lift myself up, and so here I am, nearly 40, trying to make a new start and knowing that even if I manage it, what's left to me is far, far less than I could have had.

Also in the same position of never having had any help from GPs. I pretty much stay out of their way now because it's so frustrating and exhausting trying to talk to the same old brick wall.

So yeah, you have my sympathy. Hope you will be okay.

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## halfeye

> I've been meaning to, but the sapped motivation (which, to be fair, isn't a problem confined to this week, it just feels worse) tends to keep me from it.
> 
> I dunno, just the medical problems and the inability to find work and everything else.  I just fundamentally don't get how other people, like, live.  Yeah, yeah, I know no one's life is as good as it looks on social media, but other people manage to, like, have jobs?  Get to 40 and have SOMETHING to show for it, even if that something is just "a whole lot of memories from all the stuff I did in my 20's and 30's".


How does GP medicine work over there? here I have a local practice with about eight GPs in it, and another practice with several more in the same building (which is unusual, but in a big town like this there are other practices within walking distance). Getting an appointment with a GP is painful, most appointments are made on the day, you have to dial in at 8am, and keep dialing until you get onto the hold queue, then hang on untll the receptionist answers and makes the appointment, by about 8.30 am that day's appointments will be booked.

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## 2D8HP

Came into work and found out that a third of the crew (five guys) is out due to having Covid.

As for myself (while less than it was) I still have a fungal infection in my lungs thats given me Covid-ish symptoms for almost two years so I have to often take the Covid test to know and cant guess based on just symptoms.

Fortunately I got a negative test result late last week, as did my beloved roommate, to be safe I just got a test this morning, as did five of the seven on the crew  who showed up this morning.

If I get a positive result I dont know where Ill live, if I stay with my wife and the kids (as I usually do on the weekends) while my wife and her older son are vaccinated the younger one isnt l, and thats three I put at risk, if I stay with my roommates (as I usually do during the week), while its easier to avoid them there, thats still two I put at risk, and the lady has a compromised immune system, plus I just plain love her and dont want to put her at risk.

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## Willie the Duck

> I dunno, just the medical problems and the inability to find work and everything else.  I just fundamentally don't get how other people, like, live.  Yeah, yeah, I know no one's life is as good as it looks on social media, but other people manage to, like, have jobs?  Get to 40 and have SOMETHING to show for it, even if that something is just "a whole lot of memories from all the stuff I did in my 20's and 30's".


I don't know if this helps any, but I'm in my 40s, have beaten back my medical disabilities to a known limitation rather than an active problem, have an executive job, and spend entire too much of my free mental processing cycles wondering when this will all seem as easy as my dad made it look when I was 10 and worrying that it's all a few crises away from falling apart. I feel that there are three types of people in the world: the unfathomably blessed, those who worry about where they are in life or their stability in that position, and people who really ought to do that worrying. 




> If I get a positive result I dont know where Ill live, if I stay with my wife and the kids (as I usually do on the weekends) while my wife and her older son are vaccinated the younger one isnt l, and thats three I put at risk, if I stay with my roommates (as I usually do during the week), while its easier to avoid them there, thats still two I put at risk, and the lady has a compromised immune system, plus I just plain love her and dont want to put her at risk.


I'd offer our basement apartment, but it's a heck of a drive from Frisco.  :Small Tongue:  Is a Motel-8 -type place in the budget? Not that it would be kind to subject hospitality workers to the risk, but presumably they would wear PPE when they clean up.

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## 2D8HP

> []
> I'd offer our basement apartment, but it's a heck of a drive from Frisco.  Is a Motel-8 -type place in the budget? Not that it would be kind to subject hospitality workers to the risk, but presumably they would wear PPE when they clean up.



Thanks @Willie the Duck, two negative result Covid tests so far for me this last week, roomie also tested negative 
*whew*
Though we both seem to have some cold symptoms (and when she had more nasal congestion she sounded even more adorable).

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## Kesnit

I suspect I know what people are going to say. I just think I need people to say it...

I have a friend who is 19 years my junior. He had a rough, somewhat religious upbringing and what he was taught does not match the way his life has developed. He was also raised with toxic masculinity and has difficulty expressing his emotions. My friend group accepts him the way he is, which throws him for a loop because he cannot wrap his head around people being nice to him and wanting to spend time with him. 

He recently lost his job due to lashing out at a bully at work. This was the last straw, and his long-term depression kicked in. Although I do not think he is suicidal any more, I don't think it would take much for him to get to that point. 

I want to help him and show him that we really do care about him. He's asked me to come by and hang out with him and I told him I should be able to spend time with him tomorrow. However, my stress levels are going through the roof and my BS is being screwy. (I have T2D that is mostly controlled, but sometimes my BS crashes because I workout too hard and don't eat enough carbs.) 

I want to help him. I want to spend time with him. But I can barely get my brain to function and know it will take time to get myself back under control. (I've had to correct a lot of typos while writing this because my fingers are not responding the way they should.) What energy I have need to go to getting myself though work tomorrow and I don't know if I'll have the capacity to spend time with him tomorrow.) 

What can I do?

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## Liquor Box

> I suspect I know what people are going to say. I just think I need people to say it...
> 
> I have a friend who is 19 years my junior. He had a rough, somewhat religious upbringing and what he was taught does not match the way his life has developed. He was also raised with toxic masculinity and has difficulty expressing his emotions. My friend group accepts him the way he is, which throws him for a loop because he cannot wrap his head around people being nice to him and wanting to spend time with him. 
> 
> He recently lost his job due to lashing out at a bully at work. This was the last straw, and his long-term depression kicked in. Although I do not think he is suicidal any more, I don't think it would take much for him to get to that point. 
> 
> I want to help him and show him that we really do care about him. He's asked me to come by and hang out with him and I told him I should be able to spend time with him tomorrow. However, my stress levels are going through the roof and my BS is being screwy. (I have T2D that is mostly controlled, but sometimes my BS crashes because I workout too hard and don't eat enough carbs.) 
> 
> I want to help him. I want to spend time with him. But I can barely get my brain to function and know it will take time to get myself back under control. (I've had to correct a lot of typos while writing this because my fingers are not responding the way they should.) What energy I have need to go to getting myself though work tomorrow and I don't know if I'll have the capacity to spend time with him tomorrow.) 
> ...


If he is more of a man type, and not the type to want to spend the day discussing how he feels, the best thing a friend can do is spend time with him. Not pressing him to discuss his emotions, or even necessarily discussing his situation with having lost his job, unless he wants to. Perhaps just watching a bit of sport and chilling. 

If what you are asking is whether you should be the person to do that given your own lack of energy and health complaints, only you can answer that. If you are genuinely struggling, and think it would drain you to spend time with him though, I don't think  you should feel guilty for not doing so.

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## dehro

Involve a third party, to share the physical and emotional load.
Be up front with them, both the third party/other friend and the person you want to bring comfort to

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## Smoutwortel

Today my father snapped and told us and mom he regretted us and mom, because just as his job we gave him not enough space. He also expressed the intent to move out(mind you not divorce, because he considers it irresponsible to leave us and mom without a main income).
The walk up involved my brother refusing to go and fetch the phone he left in a rental car we rented and my sister lashing out about a subject we still don't understand and involved pizza.

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## Kesnit

I'm just looking for some outside thoughts on this...

I'm a lawyer and work in a government job. I'm 5 years into Public Service Loan Forgiveness, with 5 more years to go. I live in one state and am licensed and work in another. I am not licensed where I live. 

For the past few years, I've been getting very frustrated with my job. For the most part, I like it. But there have been several times when my boss has thrown me under the bus. Sometimes for things I did and he overreacted. Sometimes I got blamed for things that were not my fault. Normally, this would be a sign to move on to a new job. However, we have a house we really like, and finding a job where I am licensed would involve having to move. 

My alternative is to get licensed where I live, which can be done one of two ways. One way is to apply to waive the Bar exam. The other is to take this state's Bar. I would prefer to waive in as the Bar is a nightmare. (I've taken it twice before in 2 states.) But when I looked at the waiver application, it requires me to list about 20 references (none of whom are a relative), some of whom have to have seen me practice law. Since the idea is to keep this quiet, I would be very limited in who I could list as a professional reference. I just don't think I can find that many people! My other option is the take this state's Bar Exam. This would require me to also take a Bar preparation class while working full time. I've done that before (for the 2nd Bar I took) and know it can be done, but it is killer. 

Part of me thinks I am nuts for thinking of this, but I just don't think I can plow my way through another 5 years where I am now.

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## Peelee

> I'm just looking for some outside thoughts on this...
> 
> I'm a lawyer and work in a government job. I'm 5 years into Public Service Loan Forgiveness, with 5 more years to go. I live in one state and am licensed and work in another. I am not licensed where I live. 
> 
> For the past few years, I've been getting very frustrated with my job. For the most part, I like it. But there have been several times when my boss has thrown me under the bus. Sometimes for things I did and he overreacted. Sometimes I got blamed for things that were not my fault. Normally, this would be a sign to move on to a new job. However, we have a house we really like, and finding a job where I am licensed would involve having to move. 
> 
> My alternative is to get licensed where I live, which can be done one of two ways. One way is to apply to waive the Bar exam. The other is to take this state's Bar. I would prefer to waive in as the Bar is a nightmare. (I've taken it twice before in 2 states.) But when I looked at the waiver application, it requires me to list about 20 references (none of whom are a relative), some of whom have to have seen me practice law. Since the idea is to keep this quiet, I would be very limited in who I could list as a professional reference. I just don't think I can find that many people! My other option is the take this state's Bar Exam. This would require me to also take a Bar preparation class while working full time. I've done that before (for the 2nd Bar I took) and know it can be done, but it is killer. 
> 
> Part of me thinks I am nuts for thinking of this, but I just don't think I can plow my way through another 5 years where I am now.


Would you find it helpful if I had a source where you could discuss this with other lawyers and see what their responses and advice may be?

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## Kesnit

> Would you find it helpful if I had a source where you could discuss this with other lawyers and see what their responses and advice may be?


That would help, yes.

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## HalfTangible

> Part of me thinks I am nuts for thinking of this, but I just don't think I can plow my way through another 5 years where I am now.


... Seems like you've already made your decision then. Assuming Peelee's source doesn't work out for ya.

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## Peelee

> ... Seems like you've already made your decision then. Assuming Peelee's source doesn't work out for ya.


The best part about my suggestion was they get nothing but responses from lawyers, and the worst part about my suggestion was they get nothing but responses from lawyers.

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## dehro

> ... Seems like you've already made your decision then. Assuming Peelee's source doesn't work out for ya.


what he said



> The best part about my suggestion was they get nothing but responses from lawyers, and the worst part about my suggestion was they get nothing but responses from lawyers.


lol

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## DarthArminius

I'm going to let out a "personal whoah!" to stop this horse from falling off the website.

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## Lissou

Well, this thread is for woes but we don't often get updates so since it's quiet (thanks for bumping it DarthArminius) I'm going to give an update.

First, a background: my husband died in November 2020, either of complications from covid (he has compatible symptoms but tested negative) or from complications from heart failure/diabetes, which he suffered from.

Since then I have been seeing a psychiatrist, which I needed anyway due to a couple of disorders (ADD and MDD for those who are interested) and actually changes psychiatrists about a year ago because I wasn't happy with my first one, who I felt was minimizing some of my experience.
I'm very happy with my current therapist and while there are down days I'm mostly able to stay motivated and positive and not fall into a spiral of doubt and despair, so my treatment is helping a lot!

I'm polyamorous but didn't have other partners when my husband passed. Being poly means I didn't have to deal with the idea that starting a new relationship would mean "cheating" (if it was fine while he was alive, I can't see why it would be bad once he's dead), but of course I also wanted to deal with things before meeting new people. I felt ready after about 6 months. I now have a boyfriend who is mostly a friend (we meet up ever few weeks to watch shows and don't really do anything that's specific to couples except sometimes quick kisses) who I have been with for a year, and another boyfriend since last December who is a lot more of a close relationship both physically and emotionally (we have told each other "I love you" and say it often, we cuddle and more whenever we see each other, we talk about very intimate things...). He doesn't have other partners but he jokes he's married to his job and so he finds polyamorous partners work best for him.

On the subject of work, I found and kept a full-time job for almost a year, but the company went bankrupt in April. Thankfully, I'm currently in France, and the social programs, while full of lengthy bureaucracy, exist and are pretty good. As a result, I'm going to get free training to help me switch careers, in the form of a 3-month UI/UX bootcamp that should start in October. In the meantime (and during) I will be getting unemployment. I'm very excited about the bootcamp and the career change, although I wish things would happen a bit faster.
To keep busy I am reading a lot about... random things? Today I went to the library and borrowed books about botany, climate change, gender identity, genetics, online harassment... so yeah, it's a pretty wide net but so far everything I've read has been at least interesting or helped me know something was either not for me, or not for me yet (some subjects I should probably borrow introductory books first).

I am also trying to keep active and eat healthy, although that's the part of my life that's going the least well, as I struggle with both. Taking it a day at a time though, trying to take walks (at night currently because wow is it hot out there during the day) and buy more vegetables within my budget.

I thought you guys would be happy to hear positive news, since this thread is great for positive support and motivation but we don't always hear back from people when things are going well :)

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## Kesnit

Did I do the wrong thing?

I've been mentoring an intern this summer, Rhonda. Through her, I confirmed what I have suspected for a couple of years - the head of our office creeps out the female staff who are in their 20s. (We have 2 older female staff - one in her 30s and the other in her 40s.) Although I first heard it from Rhonda, I have since heard the same thing from the other women. (Some specifically told me. Others I overheard comments they made.) Rhonda made me promise that I would not escalate the women's concerns without their permission. This wasn't a problem because I do not know specifics, only "we feel this way."

Rhonda told me a few weeks ago that she plans to speak to our office deputy, Leo, on her last day (next week) to tell him what has happened. I assume that means she plans to tell Leo exact details. I know Leo and know he will handle it appropriately - report it to HR if there is anything actually actionable - so didn't say anything and told Rhonda I supported her decision. 

Two days ago, I heard Rhonda tell the other female intern that she either planned to or had told the intern coordinator at their school not to send female interns to our office in the future. Again, I think this is a good idea. But this is an escalation and, regardless of what is said, will trigger an investigation from our head office. 

This is where I am afraid I overstepped. I went to our office manager, Marylyn (38F), who is also a friend and told her about Rhonda's plans. She agreed that this is a major issue and said we needed to give Leo a heads up. Marylyn told me that she had heard comments from the younger women that had made her wonder about the head of the office, but had chalked them up to his off sense of humor. Unlike me, she had not heard the comments from everyone and did not realize how widespread it was. 

Marylyn and I spoke to Leo after hours yesterday. Leo assured me that, if Rhonda does speak to him, he will not tell her that I already did. He also told me that nothing I told him is actionable (which I knew), so there are no steps he can take unless and until Rhonda tells him more. He also told me that he had heard people talking, but without the full context, did not realize what all was going on. And he gave me the impression that our head of office is known to others at his level to be a bit creepy, based on comments Leo has heard at the management conference. 

I feel like I did the right thing by telling Marylyn and Leo. But part of me feels like I broke my promise to Rhonda. Leo told me that this is the kind of promise you can't keep, but I still feel bad that I did it.

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## LaZodiac

> Did I do the wrong thing?
> 
> I've been mentoring an intern this summer, Rhonda. Through her, I confirmed what I have suspected for a couple of years - the head of our office creeps out the female staff who are in their 20s. (We have 2 older female staff - one in her 30s and the other in her 40s.) Although I first heard it from Rhonda, I have since heard the same thing from the other women. (Some specifically told me. Others I overheard comments they made.) Rhonda made me promise that I would not escalate the women's concerns without their permission. This wasn't a problem because I do not know specifics, only "we feel this way."
> 
> Rhonda told me a few weeks ago that she plans to speak to our office deputy, Leo, on her last day (next week) to tell him what has happened. I assume that means she plans to tell Leo exact details. I know Leo and know he will handle it appropriately - report it to HR if there is anything actually actionable - so didn't say anything and told Rhonda I supported her decision. 
> 
> Two days ago, I heard Rhonda tell the other female intern that she either planned to or had told the intern coordinator at their school not to send female interns to our office in the future. Again, I think this is a good idea. But this is an escalation and, regardless of what is said, will trigger an investigation from our head office. 
> 
> This is where I am afraid I overstepped. I went to our office manager, Marylyn (38F), who is also a friend and told her about Rhonda's plans. She agreed that this is a major issue and said we needed to give Leo a heads up. Marylyn told me that she had heard comments from the younger women that had made her wonder about the head of the office, but had chalked them up to his off sense of humor. Unlike me, she had not heard the comments from everyone and did not realize how widespread it was. 
> ...


She would have explained everything you explained. It seems like this was very much a Known Issue, so there's no benefit from you adding your voice to it necessarily.

I will say; you did break a promise, and that does suck. I don't think you need to feel too bad about it, but do take a step back and ask yourself why you decided to say this. Was it because "this will likely cause an investigation from the head office"? Was it something else? It's worth thinking about.

In summary; do feel bad, but instead of lingering on that ask yourself what motivated you do break that promise.

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## HalfTangible

Every year for July 4th, my family and I go on vacation with some family friends.

One of those family friends has a daughter around my own age... I'd thought I'd gotten over my crush on her. I only see her one week out of the year, if that, and at one point she brought her boyfriend up (who she was apparently engaged to for a while but that didn't work out).

Our families spent time together; by the river, cooking out, playing cards... And specifically during that last one I felt old feelings bubbling up again. I've caught myself fantasizing and checking her out. She's a real cutie and i hugged her tight when she left for the year.

It's a bad idea and I know it but I can't stop thinking about her. Think I'm still sweet on her and I don't know what to do about it.

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## Form

> Every year for July 4th, my family and I go on vacation with some family friends.
> 
> One of those family friends has a daughter around my own age... I'd thought I'd gotten over my crush on her. I only see her one week out of the year, if that, and at one point she brought her boyfriend up (who she was apparently engaged to for a while but that didn't work out).
> 
> Our families spent time together; by the river, cooking out, playing cards... And specifically during that last one I felt old feelings bubbling up again. I've caught myself fantasizing and checking her out. She's a real cutie and i hugged her tight when she left for the year.
> 
> It's a bad idea and I know it but I can't stop thinking about her. Think I'm still sweet on her and I don't know what to do about it.


Well, you don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to do anything with it either. It's ok to enjoy the warm, fuzzy feeling it gives you, just don't overindulge. Those feelings are there and that's fine. Acknowledge that, but keep living your life the way you normally would and don't let it stop you from pursuing other possible romantic options.

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## Thrawn4

> Every year for July 4th, my family and I go on vacation with some family friends.
> ...
> It's a bad idea and I know it but I can't stop thinking about her. Think I'm still sweet on her and I don't know what to do about it.


Maybe I am an idiot, so please excuse my stupidity, but couldn't you just invite her to some activity? Not a date, just something you both might enjoy? Maybe you will realize that she is not really special, or maybe she realizes you are special... but spending time together should help you to clarify things. Maybe she will politely decline your offer and you will know she is not interested, but imho this would still be better than wondering forever what might have been.
And really, I am just talking about hanging out together, not a public declaration of love.

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## Thrawn4

> She would have explained everything you explained. It seems like this was very much a Known Issue, so there's no benefit from you adding your voice to it necessarily.
> 
> I will say; you did break a promise, and that does suck. I don't think you need to feel too bad about it, but do take a step back and ask yourself why you decided to say this. Was it because "this will likely cause an investigation from the head office"? Was it something else? It's worth thinking about.
> 
> In summary; do feel bad, but instead of lingering on that ask yourself what motivated you do break that promise.


I would like to change the order: First think about why you broke your promise. Maybe there was a good reason. If there weren't, you can still feel bad about it.

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## LaZodiac

> I would like to change the order: First think about why you broke your promise. Maybe there was a good reason. If there weren't, you can still feel bad about it.


If you try hard enough you can think of a justification for anything that assuages all guilt.

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## HalfTangible

> Maybe I am an idiot, so please excuse my stupidity, but couldn't you just invite her to some activity? Not a date, just something you both might enjoy? Maybe you will realize that she is not really special, or maybe she realizes you are special... but spending time together should help you to clarify things. Maybe she will politely decline your offer and you will know she is not interested, but imho this would still be better than wondering forever what might have been.
> And really, I am just talking about hanging out together, not a public declaration of love.


We only really see each other once a year during that week for July 4th.

----------


## Sigako

My predicament is rather silly.

I had an online friend, and we knew each other for about 10 years. BFFs and all that. I'm 30 yo now, he's 2 years younger.
Several years ago I gradually started behaving like an a*****e and a drama-queen and getting crazy in general (well, I did have issues with both my private and professional life, but that's no excuse). Eventually he's got fed up and after one too many of my screw-ups banned me everywhere, roughly two years ago.
I think he was justified in this regard, and he left no opportunity for me to apologize anyway, so the best option is to just let go.
The problem: I can't let go. I still can't stop thinking about this and, in familiar terms, have to make a Will save every few months against trying to contact him. I might have been having a crush on him as well to complicate things further, but I'm not sure, since I have no relevant experience to compare.

So, how do I get him and whole this mess out of my head? This constant feeling of guilt and yearning for happier years (which are mostly self-serving memories anyway) does not help my mental health, which hasn't improved since that time.

----------


## Liquor Box

> My predicament is rather silly.
> 
> I had an online friend, and we knew each other for about 10 years. BFFs and all that. I'm 30 yo now, he's 2 years younger.
> Several years ago I gradually started behaving like an a*****e and a drama-queen and getting crazy in general (well, I did have issues with both my private and professional life, but that's no excuse). Eventually he's got fed up and after one too many of my screw-ups banned me everywhere, roughly two years ago.
> I think he was justified in this regard, and he left no opportunity for me to apologize anyway, so the best option is to just let go.
> The problem: I can't let go. I still can't stop thinking about this and, in familiar terms, have to make a Will save every few months against trying to contact him. I might have been having a crush on him as well to complicate things further, but I'm not sure, since I have no relevant experience to compare.
> 
> So, how do I get him and whole this mess out of my head? This constant feeling of guilt and yearning for happier years (which are mostly self-serving memories anyway) does not help my mental health, which hasn't improved since that time.


Find a different guy to be interested in.

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## Sigako

> Find a different guy to be interested in.


Crazy a*****e with heavy mood swings here. The fact that I couldn't find another guy I could form a connection with was one of the initial problems.
And even I draw a line at actually becoming a stalker.

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## Thrawn4

> If you try hard enough you can think of a justification for anything that assuages all guilt.


True. You have to find the strength to be honest to yourself. I still maintain that sometimes there are actually good reasons, even though some people prefer to lie to themselves.

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## Thrawn4

> We only really see each other once a year during that week for July 4th.


"Hey, it was fun to talk about / do xyz with you. How about we don't wait for another year?"
I realize that this would be unusual and therefore take courage, but if you have a common interests you could just suggest it during the conversation.
Obviously depends on whether you have common hobbies or interests.
Now, even then it is not easy, I realize that. Maybe start with a text message that refers to your last discussion? You know, just keep the talk going.
"So, just wondering, do you still think Captain America is superior to Iron Man?"
Let her realize you are fun to talk to, you don't have to start with a date.

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## Thrawn4

> My predicament is rather silly.
> 
> I had an online friend, and we knew each other for about 10 years. BFFs and all that. I'm 30 yo now, he's 2 years younger.
> Several years ago I gradually started behaving like an a*****e and a drama-queen and getting crazy in general (well, I did have issues with both my private and professional life, but that's no excuse). Eventually he's got fed up and after one too many of my screw-ups banned me everywhere, roughly two years ago.
> I think he was justified in this regard, and he left no opportunity for me to apologize anyway, so the best option is to just let go.
> The problem: I can't let go. I still can't stop thinking about this and, in familiar terms, have to make a Will save every few months against trying to contact him. I might have been having a crush on him as well to complicate things further, but I'm not sure, since I have no relevant experience to compare.
> 
> So, how do I get him and whole this mess out of my head? This constant feeling of guilt and yearning for happier years (which are mostly self-serving memories anyway) does not help my mental health, which hasn't improved since that time.


Two options: Let go or do something about it. From the sound of it the former option would leave you doubting yourself, so I suggest you try to fix it. That way, even if it does not work, you will know you have tried.

If you have been BFFs you certainly know somebody who knows him. Write an honest letter about how you screwed up, offer an explanation and point out that this is no excuse for your poor behaviour. Finish by stating that you remember the good times and would appreciate a second chance.

Cheesy? Probably.
Embarassing? Depends on your phrasing.
But here is the thing: Taking action and risking disappointment will free you from being a passive bystander, and you will be able to say you did something not everybody would have dared to.
You know, add some good qualities to the crazy a*****e ;-)

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## halfeye

> Did I do the wrong thing?
> 
> I've been mentoring an intern this summer, Rhonda. Through her, I confirmed what I have suspected for a couple of years - the head of our office creeps out the female staff who are in their 20s. (We have 2 older female staff - one in her 30s and the other in her 40s.) Although I first heard it from Rhonda, I have since heard the same thing from the other women. (Some specifically told me. Others I overheard comments they made.) Rhonda made me promise that I would not escalate the women's concerns without their permission. This wasn't a problem because I do not know specifics, only "we feel this way."
> 
> ...
> 
> I feel like I did the right thing by telling Marylyn and Leo. But part of me feels like I broke my promise to Rhonda. Leo told me that this is the kind of promise you can't keep, but I still feel bad that I did it.


What you did wrong (IMHO) was making the promise. It can be very hard not to make promises like that, but in the end experience says you shouldn't.

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## Liquor Box

> Crazy a*****e with heavy mood swings here. The fact that I couldn't find another guy I could form a connection with was one of the initial problems.
> And even I draw a line at actually becoming a stalker.


Well, then throw yourself into something else - your work or your hobby or something. 

I also thought Thrawn's advice was sound. You could write a letter, but after that it's time to move on.

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## Asmotherion

> I'm just looking for some outside thoughts on this...
> 
> I'm a lawyer and work in a government job. I'm 5 years into Public Service Loan Forgiveness, with 5 more years to go. I live in one state and am licensed and work in another. I am not licensed where I live. 
> 
> For the past few years, I've been getting very frustrated with my job. For the most part, I like it. But there have been several times when my boss has thrown me under the bus. Sometimes for things I did and he overreacted. Sometimes I got blamed for things that were not my fault. Normally, this would be a sign to move on to a new job. However, we have a house we really like, and finding a job where I am licensed would involve having to move. 
> 
> My alternative is to get licensed where I live, which can be done one of two ways. One way is to apply to waive the Bar exam. The other is to take this state's Bar. I would prefer to waive in as the Bar is a nightmare. (I've taken it twice before in 2 states.) But when I looked at the waiver application, it requires me to list about 20 references (none of whom are a relative), some of whom have to have seen me practice law. Since the idea is to keep this quiet, I would be very limited in who I could list as a professional reference. I just don't think I can find that many people! My other option is the take this state's Bar Exam. This would require me to also take a Bar preparation class while working full time. I've done that before (for the 2nd Bar I took) and know it can be done, but it is killer. 
> 
> Part of me thinks I am nuts for thinking of this, but I just don't think I can plow my way through another 5 years where I am now.


I'd really like to help you more than this, but all I can suggest is weight up the pros and cons of each option and come up with a conclusion. 

All I can do otherwise is tell you my personal take on the matter, but that may or may not apply to you, as you are a different person. But here goes: 

Personally, if I didn't like something about my job, I would try to find something else, and make it work. I know it sounds cliche, but that's my personal opinion on the matter. Your job consists of 1/3 of your life, Half of your awake life to be precise. And if you're unhappy in 1/3 of your life, everything falls appart. 

Also, it's always good that your boss knows he doesn't have you for granted, thus his behaviour might change. Inform him of offers you have, and see his counter offer. 

About getting lissenced: I think the better option is to take the exam, since you want to keep it quiet. You deffinitelly can do it, you've done so before.

PS: Sorry for the late reply, I just saw your post and wanted to provide my 2 cents on this.




> Every year for July 4th, my family and I go on vacation with some family friends.





> One of those family friends has a daughter around my own age... I'd thought I'd gotten over my crush on her. I only see her one week out of the year, if that, and at one point she brought her boyfriend up (who she was apparently engaged to for a while but that didn't work out).
> 
> Our families spent time together; by the river, cooking out, playing cards... And specifically during that last one I felt old feelings bubbling up again. I've caught myself fantasizing and checking her out. She's a real cutie and i hugged her tight when she left for the year.
> 
> It's a bad idea and I know it but I can't stop thinking about her. Think I'm still sweet on her and I don't know what to do about it.




Do you otherwise communicate? My take on it is, the best way to stop thinking about her is to ask her out. Best case, she reciprocates your feelings, worst case, she doesn't and you quit wondering if she might. 

And, the bonus is, even if she doesn't reciprocate, you'll be seeing her again after 1 year, so things will cool off, and you'll both laugh about it by that time.

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## Sigako

> Well, then throw yourself into something else - your work or your hobby or something. 
> 
> I also thought Thrawn's advice was sound. You could write a letter, but after that it's time to move on.


The kicker is that I have no idea HOW to move on.
Been trying to salvage something of my work and hobbies for 3 years now, with little success, but ok.

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## Peelee

> We only really see each other once a year during that week for July 4th.


You ever see _When Harry Met Sally_? Those clips interspersed throughout of the couples telling how they got to be together? Those are actors, but the stories are real. Thats just life sometimes, ya know?

Take a chance.

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## LaZodiac

> You ever see _When Harry Met Sally_? Those clips interspersed throughout of the couples telling how they got to be together? Those are actors, but the stories are real. Thats just life sometimes, ya know?
> 
> Take a chance.


She has a boyfriend already, as HT has mentioned. Definitely don't.

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## HalfTangible

> She has a boyfriend already, as HT has mentioned. Definitely don't.


To clarify: she _had_ a boyfriend, and was even going to marry him at one point, but that didn't work out. As far as I know, she's currently single. But I don't know a lot about what's going on in her life so I could very easily be wrong.

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## Dame_Mechanus

> She has a boyfriend already, as HT has mentioned. Definitely don't.


It's still fundamentally the right advice. Either you take an action or don't. Rejection is scary, absolutely, no argument, but not risking anything is not going to change anything either. You either go for the chance or you let go of it, but you can't just forever wonder "what's the right action to take?" without doing something.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And maybe nothing should be ventured. But if that's the case, just decide not to do it.

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## Bartmanhomer

Hey everyone. I'm very sad at the moment because one of my friends on YouTube that goes by the name of Old Dirty Ninja has passed away today. My energy is low and I'm very heartbroken that he passed away.  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:

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## Dame_Mechanus

> Hey everyone. I'm very sad at the moment because one of my friends on YouTube that goes by the name of Old Dirty Ninja has passed away today. My energy is low and I'm very heartbroken that he passed away.


I'm so sorry to hear that. I know how much it hurts when someone close to you says goodbye. I hope that whatever happened wasn't even more traumatizing than it has to be, and you have my best wishes as you navigate through the grieving process. Give yourself the space you need and use it as a motivator to bring the other people who matter to you closer into your life.

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## Bartmanhomer

> I'm so sorry to hear that. I know how much it hurts when someone close to you says goodbye. I hope that whatever happened wasn't even more traumatizing than it has to be, and you have my best wishes as you navigate through the grieving process. Give yourself the space you need and use it as a motivator to bring the other people who matter to you closer into your life.


With all the craziness that happened on YouTube. I waa going to take a break from YouTube from the middle of YouTube but I feel like taking a break right now because YouTube is extremely draining.  :Frown:

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## Liquor Box

> To clarify: she _had_ a boyfriend, and was even going to marry him at one point, but that didn't work out. As far as I know, she's currently single. But I don't know a lot about what's going on in her life so I could very easily be wrong.


The has/had distinction is less important than whether you can beat him in a fight.

I think you should go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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## Dame_Mechanus

Not really looking for advice of any sort, just sympathy.

My wife and I both lost our jobs through what amount to rather underhanded dealings with our employers, and I've been applying pretty religiously but without a great deal of luck with interviews over the past few weeks. Last week, I had a couple of interviews, one for a job I wanted and thought I was exceedingly qualified for, the other for a job I discovered during the interview process I really did _not_ want. (This did not mean that I didn't turn on the charm during the interview just the same.)

I was supposed to hear about the job I _didn't_ want last week, and the job I _did_ want this week. I still haven't heard back from the job I _didn't_ want even after reaching out earlier in the week. Tonight I heard back from the job I _did_ want and found out I didn't get it.

We've got savings and accommodations to the point that we've got time and I don't have to take the job I don't want even if it's offered to me, something that basically everyone has told me not to do (which is logical, I wouldn't want to work there and we're nowhere near the point of "must get something, anything" in our respective hunts). It's just really demoralizing to not get the offer, to only be contacted by one, and to generally be left feeling like I'm just not good enough. Which, between anxiety, impostor syndrome, and trauma, is a mindset that I'm already predisposed toward. It's the sort of thing that makes me feel like we're not going to be okay, even though I have a support network and we have plans to support ourselves for nearly a year if need be.

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## Sigako

> Not really looking for advice of any sort, just sympathy.
> 
> My wife and I both lost our jobs through what amount to rather underhanded dealings with our employers, and I've been applying pretty religiously but without a great deal of luck with interviews over the past few weeks. Last week, I had a couple of interviews, one for a job I wanted and thought I was exceedingly qualified for, the other for a job I discovered during the interview process I really did _not_ want. (This did not mean that I didn't turn on the charm during the interview just the same.)
> 
> I was supposed to hear about the job I _didn't_ want last week, and the job I _did_ want this week. I still haven't heard back from the job I _didn't_ want even after reaching out earlier in the week. Tonight I heard back from the job I _did_ want and found out I didn't get it.
> 
> We've got savings and accommodations to the point that we've got time and I don't have to take the job I don't want even if it's offered to me, something that basically everyone has told me not to do (which is logical, I wouldn't want to work there and we're nowhere near the point of "must get something, anything" in our respective hunts). It's just really demoralizing to not get the offer, to only be contacted by one, and to generally be left feeling like I'm just not good enough. Which, between anxiety, impostor syndrome, and trauma, is a mindset that I'm already predisposed toward. It's the sort of thing that makes me feel like we're not going to be okay, even though I have a support network and we have plans to support ourselves for nearly a year if need be.


That sucks all right.
That being said, there are often smaller jobs and freelance opportunities available - not enough to cover all your spendings, but better than nothing, and you can be picky at these ones, especially if you have some financial buttress as you've said. Not only it slows down dwindlig of your resources, it also can help with insecurities.

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## Dame_Mechanus

> That sucks all right.
> That being said, there are often smaller jobs and freelance opportunities available - not enough to cover all your spendings, but better than nothing, and you can be picky at these ones, especially if you have some financial buttress as you've said. Not only it slows down dwindlig of your resources, it also can help with insecurities.


Yep. We're exploring that and paying attention to that, we have plans and backup plans and further plans. But I do appreciate the good wishes and understanding there. As hard as it is for anxious me to recognize it, we are not in panic mode at this time, and the odds are we'll never get to panic mode. It's just really upsetting.

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## VoxRationis

This is the way of capital. The idea is to render the applicant desperate by deliberately exposing them to all manner of degradation in the process of their looking for a job and then to give them not the slightest courtesy in return.

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## Salbazier

I just need to vent
*Spoiler*
Show


So, I just got into fight with my mother. The root was petty honestly. I was in the middle when suddenly cockroach landed in my lap, after a bit panic, the I thought the cockroach gone. I try to resume eating, but then the cokcroach back and this time even crawling on my nape. It just happen my brother/mother were asking what happened, so I yell, partly in answer, and partly in panic, 'COCKROACH'!

My mother ended up angry for surprising her with my voiceand keep going for a while, criticising me for yelling loudly, and on, even goes as far as saying I could give her heart attack, and what happen if she died etc.

I was frankly got upset in turn, because I WAS SURPRISED TOO. That's why I screamed in the first place. I said as much. There's nothing else though so I then try to tidy up. My mother told me go eat at the room (earlier she's was saying I should just leave the chair when the cocroack, but I argued back that I was middle of eating that's why I wasn't leaving). I respond, I was done eating, no taste to continue. (How could I, the food wasn't that good, I was tired by the cocroach surprise, and there I was keep being told off.) And she tell 'you are wasting money'.

I lost it there. I grab the empty paper box that was food, and smach back into the table. My mother getting angrier, saying 'You dare!?'

God, I truly lost it there. See, I keep having grudge. Of being faulted by mother of various things, things that even not my fault sometimes. It just, I'm not sure how to describe it. It a cycle of grudge that just keep it festering. Now, I wil not say I'm innocent here. I did a lot of wrong myself, and nursing grudge is something I'm aware is bad, and I would rather not be grudgeful person. So I always try to keep myself in check. But the dam broke some at that moment. So I yell complaints back about how I always blamed everything and everything (exaggerating yes).

I was losing my mind, I felt with urge to smash things. I try to resist though, instead I ... shake the dishwasher faucet, fill my mouth with the water, and dumping my head among the dirty dishes and running water. 

Like I said, I was losing my mind. Not smashing things around (such as my head) was about the extent of my self-control remains.

Amidst this my mother still mouth off some to one another. She going about what I'm doing is wrong/not allowed, I should not going continously like  this, etc (Note: not exact translation, we were not arguing in English) while I begging 'please stop, just for once stob blaming/attacking me' 'I'm trying to calm down' or stuffs like that.

My mother fed up and leave the kitchen. I managed to calm myself enough to lift my head from the dishwashing tub. And spend the next minutes, continuing to try to calm down, finishing the food (because her earlier complaint about wasting food), and making myself drink (because I have not drink after the dinner, also part of trying to calm down), while sobbing and trying resisting doing something worse.

Food and drink done, I shut myself in my room. I managed to stop sobbing after yelling into pillows. Spending the last few hours stewing. Didn't managed to resist completely from smashing things unfornatutely. Fortunately it was just mostly soft things (like my hat), and one tupperware cover.

I've calmed down somewhat. But my mind still fixates on the event, despite the ongoing effort to distract myself. Still breaking into sobs or smashing urge every dozen minutes or so. I'm typing this post, in hope that venting it into somewhere, anything, will help calm down better than keeping it inside.


So yeah. I do feel bad about what did. That was not something necessary, but lost my mind is what happened. And once it happens... I'm still angry with my mother, I was losing my mind like, and all she was going was about how dare I to angry and tantrums (I'll be fair and admit tantrums is apt descriptor for my action there). I mind yeah, sure tantrum it was not a good thing. BUT WHERE ON ****ING EARTH SOMEONE LOSING HIS MIND WILL CALM DOWN BY LECTURING HIM HOW WRONG HIM TO LOSE MIND!?

Honestly, part of why I'm regretting losing my mind, because I didn't managed to argue back her properly. Like telling her that part of why I'm don't have taste to continue eating because she's keep going off on me like that. I bet she's though the period was in the still kitchen and making noise, was just me contuning to tantrum, when in reality I was ****ing trying to finish the food like she wanted.

And like, she can get angry continously for me suprised her, but I'm not allowed to be angry for her making half-crazy?


Haah. Oh well. I don't know what to from here, hopefully getting this out my system can help to stop myself keep going back into the negative spiral.

If you read those text above, thank you for willing to read my crazy rambling.

----------


## 2D8HP

Im a deeply unhappy man, and most advice Ive heard boils down to:

1. suck it up buttercup, stay miserable and be a good Dad

2. Abandon the kids youre raising and completely leave your marriage

3. something something somehow be able to pay enough rent to have joint custody (Ive spoken to lawyers and done the math, after a legal divorce Id have to sleep at work, in a car, or my Moms basement).

4. Stay with your wife and visit professional escorts for easing romantic cravings

None of these alternatives appeal to me!

I hate my job (as Ive hated every previous job), but I feel a need to do it to keep two kids health insurance.

I hate my celibacy (which, depending on your definition of sex started either over 30 years ago after I fell in love with the woman who I would later marry, or nineteen years ago after me and my wifes child was stillborn).

My wife has two sons, both conceived via in-vitro using a donor (allegedly because she didnt want kids that were like my relatives, but in hindsight because she didnt to have sex with me), those sons call me Dad and seem to love me, but (to my shame) thats not enough for me to be happy, I want physical and verbal affection from a woman I love who I can at least pretend loves me.

Despite her still being painfully beautiful to me because if Im away I can pretend Im rejecting her instead of her rejecting me and Ive lived away from my wife for about a year, but at her request for the kids I still live with her on weekends and holidays.

My wife says she wants me back full time, but no sex ever and frankly she isnt much for verbal affection (shes an acts of service love language lady, while Im tied for words and touch with gifts a distant third, and acts of service dead last). She also says that marriage counseling would be a waste of time and money.

For a year Ive lived with another lady as a roommate, and over time weve become emotionally close, and I often feel smitten by her (besides her charm and kindness that shes stricken with cancer pushes my white Knight to her damsel in distress buttons, besides when I was told that I had an 80% chance of advanced lung cancer and that I likely had less than two years to live a little over two years ago I emphasize with her), and she does give me some of the verbal affection that I crave, and shes hinted that shes open to a physical relationship if I dont visit the kids because she cant risk kid germs, but that seems too cruel, especially to the six year old (which is near the age I was when my Mom kicked my Dad out, so I know whats thats like from a childs perspective), plus I can tell from her history that shes not a one man woman, and Id be jealous.

Unfortunately I crave a loving, romantic, and sexual monogamous relationship with I woman I may wake up with rather than flings/massages.

I see no virtuous to end to my misery except death.

----------


## Murk

> Im a deeply unhappy man, and most advice Ive heard boils down to:
> 1. suck it up buttercup, stay miserable and be a good Dad
> 
> 2. Abandon the kids youre raising and completely leave your marriage
> 
> 3. something something somehow be able to pay enough rent to have joint custody (Ive spoken to lawyers and done the math, after a legal divorce Id have to sleep at work, in a car, or my Moms basement).
> 
> 4. Stay with your wife and visit professional escorts for easing romantic cravings


From everything I've been told "being miserable" and "being a good dad" are _mutually exclusive_. 
It's similar to the old "parent divorce is difficult for kids, but unhappy parents are even more difficult". 

You're deeply unhappy and have been for a long time, and that doesn't make a good dad. 
All the advice that tries to combine your "duty to your children" with "unhappiness" is unworkable advice. 

So, generally, what's good for the children is _what's good for you_. Looking out for your own happiness will make you a better dad. 

In the same vein, your wife seems unwilling (or incapable) to even _consider_ your happiness. From everything you've written I can't see she has ever tried to come with a solution that takes your happiness into account. I don't think there has been a constructive proposal to improve your happiness from her side, right? 
So again, that leaves it up to you to look out for your own happiness - she clearly won't. 

So far you seem to be torn between your duty to fatherhood, marriage and sense of romance on the one hand; and your individual happiness on the other hand. 
I don't think anyone can tell you how to become happy, but I wanted to stress that these duties and your happiness are not _opposed_. Your happiness _is part of_ being a good father and a good romantic partner. 
If (big if) you have to sacrifice some fatherly or romantic duties in order to become happy then that _is_ a being a food father or romantic partner. 

That doesn't necessarily mean you need to "abandon the kids" and "completely leave your marriage". But it does mean putting yourself first, whatever that might entail for you.

----------


## lio45

> Did I do the wrong thing?
> 
> I've been mentoring an intern this summer, Rhonda. Through her, I confirmed what I have suspected for a couple of years - the head of our office creeps out the female staff who are in their 20s. (We have 2 older female staff - one in her 30s and the other in her 40s.) Although I first heard it from Rhonda, I have since heard the same thing from the other women. (Some specifically told me. Others I overheard comments they made.) Rhonda made me promise that I would not escalate the women's concerns without their permission. This wasn't a problem because I do not know specifics, only "we feel this way."
> 
> Rhonda told me a few weeks ago that she plans to speak to our office deputy, Leo, on her last day (next week) to tell him what has happened. I assume that means she plans to tell Leo exact details. I know Leo and know he will handle it appropriately - report it to HR if there is anything actually actionable - so didn't say anything and told Rhonda I supported her decision. 
> 
> Two days ago, I heard Rhonda tell the other female intern that she either planned to or had told the intern coordinator at their school not to send female interns to our office in the future. Again, I think this is a good idea. But this is an escalation and, regardless of what is said, will trigger an investigation from our head office. 
> 
> This is where I am afraid I overstepped. I went to our office manager, Marylyn (38F), who is also a friend and told her about Rhonda's plans. She agreed that this is a major issue and said we needed to give Leo a heads up. Marylyn told me that she had heard comments from the younger women that had made her wonder about the head of the office, but had chalked them up to his off sense of humor. Unlike me, she had not heard the comments from everyone and did not realize how widespread it was. 
> ...


Im a bit late with this, but you did nothing wrong - you promised you wouldnt be the one to escalate it, and you kept that promise till the end (i.e. till the moment Rhonda mentioned she did something that would automatically trigger an escalation). 

Ive been in a relationship with a drug addict for a year and a half now (never loved a gf as much as this one, and Im slowly getting her off it all) and one thing I have quickly learned is that all my promises - Im the most thoroughly honest person youll ever meet - have to come with asterisks and extra clauses.

(First time I was accused of breaking one, its because the small print with the details of what circumstances would obviously release me from it had been too implicit, so I didnt do that mistake again.).

----------


## lio45

> The has/had distinction is less important than whether you can beat him in a fight.
> 
> I think you should go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


OMG, you paraphrased the next comic! 

(Youre a future psychic!)

Redcloak: Um, she already has a boyfriend

HalfTangible: Why let that stop me? I can kill that bozo easily

Redcloak: Its not what matters in this situation

Liquor Box: Its the ONLY thing that matters in EVERY situation!

----------


## Bartmanhomer

So anyway. It's almost 2 months since I last post here. Remember I mention my YouTube friend Old Dirty Ninja passed away? There have been rumors that he may still be alive. There are also rumors that he might fake his death for the sake of trolling. I can't confirm if it is true or not. But if he died then I respect his wishes but he he's alive I'll be very angry at him about it.  :Mad:

----------


## Willie the Duck

Again 2D8HP, I am very sorry for your situation, and I am sorry that you don't feel you have gotten helpful advice. If you frame things as a 3-way choice* between staying married, abandoning your kids, and something impossible, I don't feel that there really is any advice anyone could give that would satisfy you. 
*#1&4 being the same in your case given your desire for a loving sexual relationship

Basically, I think #3 is the only route that seems possible to end with your satisfaction (you clearly are miserable in your marriage, yet you want to maintain a relationship with your kids). The something something somehow is a tough challenge (and no, I don't know all the specifics, so I don't know how challenging it is, only that it seems the only way forward), but it seems like the thing you have to attempt. I imagine it will come down to a number of compromises -- if you can't afford a legal divorce, instead have a negotiated separation; if you can't afford to do joint custody, have full visitation/every-other-weekend&holidays/similar; if you have to live in your mom's basement for a time, you live in your mom's basement. 

Fundamentally, it doesn't sound like your wife wants you back so much as she doesn't want you to leave. She by all accounts hasn't reasonably tried to meet any of your needs even halfway. Regardless of sex, actual interpersonal intimacy is an important need for most people who seek partnering at all, and is not an unreasonable expectation on your part. Beyond that, anyone who calls marriage counseling for their obviously troubled marriage to be 'a waste' is saying that they will not work to save their marriage -- it is literally the first and easiest step.

Given what you have said about your job, your personal needs, and the nice,-but-not-exactly-what-you-really-want-either option of getting with your roommate (you say you're smitten instead of in-love, part of the attraction is based on her illness, she is non-monogamous by nature, being with her is choosing not to be near the kids), honestly it sounds like you need to assess what would make you happy. Like sitting down with a counsellor and drawing out what options are actually possible (including the hard and unlikely ones, just excluding the ones that require magic genie wishes or turning back time) and finding one you want to work towards. I super-don't-really-know-you, but it sounds like the end result would be a same city, different job, staying actively involved in your children's lives, not being with your wife (regardless of the legal framework around that), and out and looking for a woman who is able and willing* to meet the full range of your needs. I don't know how challenging that is, only that I don't see anything else as a real option -- even staying as is does not seem like it is an actually plausible option. By all accounts, at some point living under this level of misery you will just break, and that won't leave anyone (you, your kids, your wife) happy. 
*post negotiation and compromise (and of course wooing her to begin with). 

Sorry again that things haven't changed for the better since last time you checked in. I truly wish I had a magic solution for all this. Also that my advice won't probably feel just the same as the people who've commented before. If nothing else, there's someone out there rooting for you, and I hope that in some small way helps. Best wishes and best of luck.




> Im a deeply unhappy man, and most advice Ive heard boils down to:
> 
> 1. suck it up buttercup, stay miserable and be a good Dad
> 
> 2. Abandon the kids youre raising and completely leave your marriage
> 
> 3. something something somehow be able to pay enough rent to have joint custody (Ive spoken to lawyers and done the math, after a legal divorce Id have to sleep at work, in a car, or my Moms basement).
> 
> 4. Stay with your wife and visit professional escorts for easing romantic cravings
> ...

----------


## 2D8HP

Thanks @Willie the Duck

----------


## D&D_Fan

Been nearly two years since I posted here last I think.

I'm just looking for advice here, I recently found out about past childhood trauma, and it was a lot of information to take in, it really messed me up for about a week (briefly s**c*d*l, had a dissociative episode I think) and I still don't know what to do moving forward. I'm all anxious, kind of panicky all the time, harder to focus on anything, I feel mislead, scared, damaged, and I am worried about possibly both mental illness inherited genetically and as a result of these events. I just don't know what to do to move forward about this at all. I can't let this get in the way of my life though, because I can't let anything get messed up. I might have already messed stuff up by telling my family therapist about this.

----------


## Sigako

> Been nearly two years since I posted here last I think.
> 
> I'm just looking for advice here, I recently found out about past childhood trauma, and it was a lot of information to take in, it really messed me up for about a week (briefly s**c*d*l, had a dissociative episode I think) and I still don't know what to do moving forward. I'm all anxious, kind of panicky all the time, harder to focus on anything, I feel mislead, scared, damaged, and I am worried about possibly both mental illness inherited genetically and as a result of these events. I just don't know what to do to move forward about this at all. I can't let this get in the way of my life though, because I can't let anything get messed up. I might have already messed stuff up by telling my family therapist about this.


Um, find a therapist with no ties to your family?
If you're messed up enough to be unable to function on day-to-day basis - it sounds you're past just therapy and might need medication.
If you're in a risk group for genetic mental illness - the earlier you get screened, the better, because you might also need meds.

----------


## Comrade

I've been having a pretty rough time lately for reasons that can be blamed on nobody but me.

*Spoiler: stuff*
Show

Back in August I moved to the other side of the country to attend a grad program I've been aspiring to for years, very highly regarded in the field, prestigious, all that good stuff. Over the last couple of weeks, I've been struggling and feeling like it was a terrible decision. Exhausted all the time, not as social as I usually am, prone to worrying, struggling to get out of bed in the morning, not doing things I know I need to do because I just don't have the willpower to do it. I've been feeling like in virtually every way my life is worse than it was before I started this program that's been such a dream of mine. Used to have a great job that paid decently and gave me the opportunity to effect genuine positive change, don't anymore, plus some shiny new debt. Used to have a network of great friends I knew I could count on (which is really important to me because I derive a lot of my energy and happiness from people) and I've been struggling to build a network like that here. Used to have a comfortable, relatively spacious house (that I rented, not owned, just to be clear), now I sublet. I'm even in worse physical condition; I've lost weight and muscle mass, and I'm not lifting as much as I used to. And most importantly, choosing to come here severely and maybe fatally hurt my relationship with my girlfriend, with whom-- after two years together and talk of getting married-- I'm now long-distance.

At the same time, my girlfriend has basically been telling me that our staying together is predicated on me a. moving to her hometown in her home country, b. into what will be, in the end, her house, not ours, c. transferring midway through the program to a similar program at her alma mater, and d. not pursuing long-term professional goals that I've been working towards for years. All of these, together, have me feeling like our prospective life together would essentially be her life with me in it, and as far as I can tell, none of them can be compromised on, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's been brutal, because on one hand, this is someone I love and would like to spend my life with, but on the other hand, it feels like I'm being asked to essentially live her life with her rather than create a shared one.

Both of these in combination-- the struggle to adjust to my new circumstances and the prospect of either giving up a lot of my life or losing a cherished relationship-- have been weighing pretty heavy on me. Maybe one in isolation wouldn't be so bad, but they feed into and exacerbate each other. The fact that a lot of this is really on me is, well, true, but doesn't really help.

tl;dr area man makes bed, doesn't enjoy lying in it

----------


## Thrawn4

> Been nearly two years since I posted here last I think.
> 
> I'm just looking for advice here, I recently found out about past childhood trauma, and it was a lot of information to take in, it really messed me up for about a week (briefly s**c*d*l, had a dissociative episode I think) and I still don't know what to do moving forward. I'm all anxious, kind of panicky all the time, harder to focus on anything, I feel mislead, scared, damaged, and I am worried about possibly both mental illness inherited genetically and as a result of these events. I just don't know what to do to move forward about this at all. I can't let this get in the way of my life though, because I can't let anything get messed up. I might have already messed stuff up by telling my family therapist about this.


If your therapist is a professional, they should be able to Deal with it.

Anyway: You were dealt a major blow. Struggling with this is a normal response. Being confused and worried is a normal response. Not giving up and looking for answers is a better-than-normal response. 

Let me emphasize: This is a good sign! Some people never manage this. You might Not feel it right now, but your chances are much better than you think.

----------


## Thrawn4

> I've been having a pretty rough time lately for reasons that can be blamed on nobody but me.
> 
> *Spoiler: stuff*
> Show
> 
> Back in August I moved to the other side of the country to attend a grad program I've been aspiring to for years, very highly regarded in the field, prestigious, all that good stuff. Over the last couple of weeks, I've been struggling and feeling like it was a terrible decision. Exhausted all the time, not as social as I usually am, prone to worrying, struggling to get out of bed in the morning, not doing things I know I need to do because I just don't have the willpower to do it. I've been feeling like in virtually every way my life is worse than it was before I started this program that's been such a dream of mine. Used to have a great job that paid decently and gave me the opportunity to effect genuine positive change, don't anymore, plus some shiny new debt. Used to have a network of great friends I knew I could count on (which is really important to me because I derive a lot of my energy and happiness from people) and I've been struggling to build a network like that here. Used to have a comfortable, relatively spacious house (that I rented, not owned, just to be clear), now I sublet. I'm even in worse physical condition; I've lost weight and muscle mass, and I'm not lifting as much as I used to. And most importantly, choosing to come here severely and maybe fatally hurt my relationship with my girlfriend, with whom-- after two years together and talk of getting married-- I'm now long-distance.
> 
> At the same time, my girlfriend has basically been telling me that our staying together is predicated on me a. moving to her hometown in her home country, b. into what will be, in the end, her house, not ours, c. transferring midway through the program to a similar program at her alma mater, and d. not pursuing long-term professional goals that I've been working towards for years. All of these, together, have me feeling like our prospective life together would essentially be her life with me in it, and as far as I can tell, none of them can be compromised on, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's been brutal, because on one hand, this is someone I love and would like to spend my life with, but on the other hand, it feels like I'm being asked to essentially live her life with her rather than create a shared one.
> 
> ...


Well, I don't know you, so I can only judge from my point of view: I think a good  relationship is something like a very intimate partnership, based on trust and empathy. Something that makes you stronger together than the mere sum of your parts. ( If you disagree, you can stop reading now, because my Suggestions will not apply. )

Reading your Text, I find no trace of partnership, only demands on behalf of your girlfriend. She puts you between a stone and a hard place, which is not something you should do to your special someone.
You, on the other hand, clearly take her wishes into account. Which tears you up, because it might mean sacrificing your dream.
This disparity proves you are not in the same kind of relationship as she is. And I think most people deserve better.

This can be a devastating realization after two years. I knew people who convinced themselves that this was still normal, but they were all in their first long-term relationship and simply did not now better (myself included). After the break up, we all found better partners.
You will too.


I hope this was not too blunt.

----------


## dehro

> I've been having a pretty rough time lately for reasons that can be blamed on nobody but me.
> 
> *Spoiler: stuff*
> Show
> 
> Back in August I moved to the other side of the country to attend a grad program I've been aspiring to for years, very highly regarded in the field, prestigious, all that good stuff. Over the last couple of weeks, I've been struggling and feeling like it was a terrible decision. Exhausted all the time, not as social as I usually am, prone to worrying, struggling to get out of bed in the morning, not doing things I know I need to do because I just don't have the willpower to do it. I've been feeling like in virtually every way my life is worse than it was before I started this program that's been such a dream of mine. Used to have a great job that paid decently and gave me the opportunity to effect genuine positive change, don't anymore, plus some shiny new debt. Used to have a network of great friends I knew I could count on (which is really important to me because I derive a lot of my energy and happiness from people) and I've been struggling to build a network like that here. Used to have a comfortable, relatively spacious house (that I rented, not owned, just to be clear), now I sublet. I'm even in worse physical condition; I've lost weight and muscle mass, and I'm not lifting as much as I used to. And most importantly, choosing to come here severely and maybe fatally hurt my relationship with my girlfriend, with whom-- after two years together and talk of getting married-- I'm now long-distance.
> 
> At the same time, my girlfriend has basically been telling me that our staying together is predicated on me a. moving to her hometown in her home country, b. into what will be, in the end, her house, not ours, c. transferring midway through the program to a similar program at her alma mater, and d. not pursuing long-term professional goals that I've been working towards for years. All of these, together, have me feeling like our prospective life together would essentially be her life with me in it, and as far as I can tell, none of them can be compromised on, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's been brutal, because on one hand, this is someone I love and would like to spend my life with, but on the other hand, it feels like I'm being asked to essentially live her life with her rather than create a shared one.
> 
> ...


Long time no read
..
Your SO is raising all of the red flags.

----------


## Rydiro

> Thanks @Willie the Duck


I'd start with the easier of the hard questions. Why do you hate every job?
Then go to:
Why do you stay in situations you don't like for so long?
Then:
Why have you accepted basically outrageous conditions set by your wife?

To the complex question woth marriage and kids and all: I disagree with the previous poster. I think a miserable dad is better than none. Just be generally honest with your kids about your feelings.

----------


## theangelJean

> I've been having a pretty rough time lately for reasons that can be blamed on nobody but me.
> 
> *Spoiler: stuff*
> Show
> 
> Back in August I moved to the other side of the country to attend a grad program I've been aspiring to for years, very highly regarded in the field, prestigious, all that good stuff. Over the last couple of weeks, I've been struggling and feeling like it was a terrible decision. Exhausted all the time, not as social as I usually am, prone to worrying, struggling to get out of bed in the morning, not doing things I know I need to do because I just don't have the willpower to do it. I've been feeling like in virtually every way my life is worse than it was before I started this program that's been such a dream of mine. Used to have a great job that paid decently and gave me the opportunity to effect genuine positive change, don't anymore, plus some shiny new debt. Used to have a network of great friends I knew I could count on (which is really important to me because I derive a lot of my energy and happiness from people) and I've been struggling to build a network like that here. Used to have a comfortable, relatively spacious house (that I rented, not owned, just to be clear), now I sublet. I'm even in worse physical condition; I've lost weight and muscle mass, and I'm not lifting as much as I used to. And most importantly, choosing to come here severely and maybe fatally hurt my relationship with my girlfriend, with whom-- after two years together and talk of getting married-- I'm now long-distance.
> 
> At the same time, my girlfriend has basically been telling me that our staying together is predicated on me a. moving to her hometown in her home country, b. into what will be, in the end, her house, not ours, c. transferring midway through the program to a similar program at her alma mater, and d. not pursuing long-term professional goals that I've been working towards for years. All of these, together, have me feeling like our prospective life together would essentially be her life with me in it, and as far as I can tell, none of them can be compromised on, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's been brutal, because on one hand, this is someone I love and would like to spend my life with, but on the other hand, it feels like I'm being asked to essentially live her life with her rather than create a shared one.
> 
> ...


Okay, let's see if I'm hearing you right: 
1) you are worried you made a poor decision in moving to enter this program, because
2) you feel like your decision has caused the problems you are now having with your life and relationship.

I'm getting 2) from the self-recrimination in your post. You're blaming yourself for all your problems. Can I remind you that all you did was make a decision and follow through on it.  

Yes, it changed your life a lot. That's brave, and sometimes you won't find it as satisfying as you thought you would. I can certainly relate to finally starting a long-aspired-for course and finding that it didn't magically make everything in my life better, in fact it made a lot of things worse in other areas. 

Did that make it the wrong decision? For me, it wasn't, but I have fifteen years of hindsight on that now. For you, it seems you want to pass judgement on yourself right now. How about holding off on that for a bit. You couldn't predict the future, you couldn't see how everything would turn out - and you still can't. That uncertainty can be hard to live with, which is why we resort to should-haves and self-doubt. But your life isn't irretrievably broken; it's just crummy at the moment. Can you reach out to your friends back where you used to live, just for some continuing connection while you get established where you are?

When it comes to relationships, unless you're abusive, it can never be all your fault. Feeling like a breakup is looming is depressing, no matter what the cause, and other posters are responding to your self-blame by placing the blame on your girlfriend instead. That's not what I'm getting from your post, though.

Your girlfriend wants someone to live a certain kind of life with her. She wants that person to be you, the one she's been in a relationship with for two years. I can see that you are an empathetic person who is capable of listening, and you know that she's entitled to want what she wants. IMHO she's also entitled to make that a deal-breaker if she really wants to, but that's up to her. But it's still tough being confronted with the fact that you want different things from life. She may change her mind, but you can't make her - just as she can't make you want the same things that she does. I'll just remind you again that this isn't a consequence of anything you've done - it just is how it is right now. Good luck on working out where you go next, but I'm sure the choice you make in the end will be made with consideration and care.

----------


## 2D8HP

> I'd start with the easier of the hard questions. Why do you hate every job?



The physical pain, constant fear of being fired for incompetence, getting yelled out, exhaustion, and/or boredom.




> Then go to:
> Why do you stay in situations you don't like for so long?
> Then:
> Why have you accepted basically outrageous conditions set by your wife?


Seemed cruel to leave after the stillbirth, then cruel to leave after she was a mother, and especially cruel to leave the kids.




> To the complex question woth marriage and kids and all: I disagree with the previous poster. I think a miserable dad is better than none. Just be generally honest with your kids about your feelings.



I dont think the six year old is ready for that, and telling the 17 year old that part of my unhappiness is that hes not genetically my son seems especially cruel.

That said, the answer to the general question Would you want your kids to be in the type of marriage youre in? is an emphatic NO!, but theres little in my life Id want them to experience except that it would be nice if they could live in the same kind of house and neighborhood (most folks who grow up here are priced out when they reach adulthood), but Ive little idea how to guide them to a type of life I wouldve wanted.

----------


## [email protected]

Hey you all.

I used to post very often in these forums a while back...

Like I used to wake up and first think i would do was look up at the comic and on here, specially friendly banter and woes and advice.

A lot has changed in my life since I stopped posting here, some of the worst moments of my life and some good moments here and there too...

This year I'm starting to focus on myself and among my person projects is to work on RPG game design, so I may post here often again. It's good to see some people usernames from back when I posted are still active. The internet is a scary place.

hello you all again \o 

On my woes... I think that I have always been very prejudiced against people who wanted to create their own game systems... it's such a hard and complex work... That when I saw someone idealistic fool trying to do it it felt like they were trying to re-invent the wheel and I rolled my eyes... Now I fear people will do the same to me LOL

Tasting my own poison has been hard, it's killing my motivation and I know it's mostly in my head. HAhahahha.

----------


## Comrade

> Your girlfriend wants someone to live a certain kind of life with her. She wants that person to be you, the one she's been in a relationship with for two years. I can see that you are an empathetic person who is capable of listening, and you know that she's entitled to want what she wants. IMHO she's also entitled to make that a deal-breaker if she really wants to, but that's up to her. But it's still tough being confronted with the fact that you want different things from life. She may change her mind, but you can't make her - just as she can't make you want the same things that she does. I'll just remind you again that this isn't a consequence of anything you've done - it just is how it is right now. Good luck on working out where you go next, but I'm sure the choice you make in the end will be made with consideration and care.


That's basically the gist of it. Read over my post again and it reads more than I intended it to like I'm pinning the blame on her for my current quandaries or like I'm frustrated that she's setting certain expectations for what she wants, which is 100% not how I feel about it. Of course she's gotta do what she's gotta do to build a fulfilling, satisfying life, and she has a vision of what kind of relationship would fit that life.

I think where the frustration on my end comes in is it feels like the life she has envisioned would have to change very little to accommodate me, whereas the life I've envisioned, and had envisioned for much of the time that we've been together, would have to almost entirely change. I think it's important to acknowledge that this is just how it appears from my perspective (which is why I say it _feels_ that way, not that it is that way) and that I'm not frustrated _with her_ about any of this, just frustrated at the situation. We've got a good thing going (to borrow from Garth Brooks' playbook), a special thing, and I really don't want to lose it, but our long-term relationship is predicated on me leaving my home country, transferring out of a program I've been aspiring to for years, and giving up on long-held life goals, and I'm afraid I might not be able to do all of those things without feeling like I'm not even me anymore. Maybe some of them, but not all of them.

----------


## theangelJean

Glad that I seem to have understood where you're coming from, and I also hope some of the feelings of blame and guilt are receding. They're tough to deal with, especially if you're someone who takes responsibility for things and/or wants to make people happy. It sounds like you've taken responsibility for your life so far, and one decision has changed a lot of things. If you want any further ideas on how to improve your situation where you are, you're welcome to ask and I'm sure the board will have many, but I will just say: one thing at a time, and you'll get there.




> our long-term relationship is predicated on me leaving my home country, transferring out of a program I've been aspiring to for years, and giving up on long-held life goals, and I'm afraid I might not be able to do all of those things without feeling like I'm not even me anymore. Maybe some of them, but not all of them.


Something that struck me on re-read: at least of the major differences between her future plans and yours might be a matter of timing. That is, she has a very specific idea of _when_ she wants to move back to her home country, and when she wants you to move there with her. That sounds like one of the major factors that shape the plan as she sees it. Is there any wiggle room on the timeline that would allow more progression in your study and career? And if there was, would her ideas be in any way more compatible with yours? There may be specific reasons for her timetable - I'm not going to speculate on hers, but my own experience was waiting until I finished medical school before getting married. Of course, if you can't see yourself moving to her home country no matter the timing, it may be worth focussing on what it is you would like instead. What could her options be if you didn't move?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hey everyone. So anyway I have a friend on Discord who suffer so many health problems in addition to depression. I feel like his depression is getting worse and he wants to end his life. He lives in Canada and I did give him a suicide hotline to call. I'm very good friends with him and I'm just very worried about him. I'd always give him my full support with my friend. I just hope he'll be ok. Anyway, wonderful advice and support are very needed in this case.  :Frown:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Hey everyone. So anyway I have a friend on Discord who suffer so many health problems in addition to depression. I feel like his depression is getting worse and he wants to end his life. He lives in Canada and I did give him a suicide hotline to call. I'm very good friends with him and I'm just very worried about him. I'd always give him my full support with my friend. I just hope he'll be ok. Anyway, wonderful advice and support are very needed in this case.


*Spoiler*
Show

It might not be the best support link but it comes from a professionnal therapist online? I found the video very insightful for what it was. Hope that it helps you give advices to your friend:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> It might not be the best support link but it comes from a professionnal therapist online? I found the video very insightful for what it was. Hope that it helps you give advices to your friend:


Thank you. I sent the video to Discord for him.  :Smile:

----------


## H_H_F_F

> Im a deeply unhappy man, and most advice Ive heard boils down to:
> 
> 1. suck it up buttercup, stay miserable and be a good Dad
> 
> 2. Abandon the kids youre raising and completely leave your marriage
> 
> 3. something something somehow be able to pay enough rent to have joint custody (Ive spoken to lawyers and done the math, after a legal divorce Id have to sleep at work, in a car, or my Moms basement).
> 
> 4. Stay with your wife and visit professional escorts for easing romantic cravings
> ...


Oh man, that's tough. My sympathies. 

First of, just to offer a different prespective to everyone telling you to just leave: having your parents divorce SUCKS. We both know it does. Sometimes it's the only choice, but fighting for your marriage is a worthy goal.

If you can afford it, I'd certainly consider professional help as a first step. Going to therapy, figuring out what you want and why you seem unable to get it. Some of your suffering may be because of problems with your way of thinking, not just your circumstances.

Then, when you can do it calmly and decisively, an ultimatum: "I love you, but I hate our relationship. I feel unloved, I'm lacking in empathy, and I can't take it anymore. Something needs to change, something needs to heal - so either we start fighting for this relationship together, or it's over, because I can't do it alone."

That can look like a lot of things. It can look like "I get that you see it as a waste, but we _need_ counseling, and if money is really the issue than I'm willing to give up XYZ to cover it."

It can look like a date night once a week to talk things out, when you both write down your feelings beforehand, read them out to each other, and then discuss.

It can look like addressing her issues (whether they be physical or emotional) with sex, and exploring ways to get physical intimacy which she can enjoy, step by step. Can we try to hold hands and look in each others eyes? Can we try hugging for a full minute? Establish trust - this isn't about you trying to get sex from her, just about trying to be closer and heal.

It can look like anything she suggests would help.

Ideally, all of these + individual therapy for both of you - but anything will do, *as long as she's willing to engage with the fact that you're both clearly unhappy, and willing to try and change that.* If she cannot accept that you need healing, then there's nothing to fight for. Break up, hang put with your kids several times a week, and figure out your way to a more stable housing situation.

Biological children are, I think, something to discuss another day. You could do it by surrogate, if that proves necessary - but I think fixing your life comes first. 

Good luck, friend.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

So anyway my friend calls the suicide hotline and it helps him a lot. I'm very happy that he call the number because I was very worried about him.  :Smile:

----------


## Lissou

> So anyway my friend calls the suicide hotline and it helps him a lot. I'm very happy that he call the number because I was very worried about him.


That's very good news, I'm relieved and I hope it will continue to help him :)

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## dehro

> The physical pain, constant fear of being fired for incompetence, getting yelled out, exhaustion, and/or boredom.
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed cruel to leave after the stillbirth, then cruel to leave after she was a mother, and especially cruel to leave the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me echo the sentiment that you would be well served by talking to someone in a professional capacity.
Additionally, speaking from experience,, the age at which your children will learn that you're in an unhappy marriage and moving to end it, does not matter. It will be hard on then no matter what age, with the added complication that children are a lot more perceptive than we give them credit for and often know when things aren't going well. My parents split when I was 5yo. I don't have a single memory of them together in those first years, that isn't one where they were bickering or in which one or the other parent was deeply unhappy. Stories shared and hinted at in the subsequent years coloured my perception of those early years even further.
The is no escaping this by keeping up an appearance or staying together for the children. Your children will go through this in one way or another, no matter at what age you finally throw in the towel on your marriage. You owe it to yourself but also to your children, to try and be happier, by making choices that make you happier. No matter how hard they may seem.
In the long run the less time you spend in this mother of all funks, the better it is for you and anybody important to you.

----------


## Velaryon

Life updates from my situation about five pages (and nearly a year) ago:

1. My cat was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism earlier this year, which may or may not have been related to the nasty UTI's she was getting. She was allergic to the medicine and wouldn't eat the special diet food, so she ended up needing an expensive radioactive iodine treatment that required her to be isolated at the vet for a week and then isolated at home for 2 more weeks after that. However, she made it through all that and is still going strong (though I think she's had another UTI a couple months back).

2. My parents still haven't made any progress toward moving out of their house to a retirement community. This despite my mom being briefly hospitalized a couple months ago (for the second time in as many years) with breathing problems while driving. This time it was caused by her failure to notice that the portable oxygen machine she wears wasn't plugged in right and the battery ran out. I'm still trying to nudge them toward assisted living, but they're dragging their feet in even making inquiries, much less getting ready to actually move anywhere.

3. My ex and I haven't spoken in five or six months. I needed more space before I was ready to try and be friends again, but now it feels awkward to just reach out and be like "hey, do you still want to be friends?" We both agreed before we even started dating that we wanted to remain friends if it didn't work out and I am over her enough that I think I could do that now, but... yeah.

4. Trying to get back out into the dating world is just awful. I've never been good at asking people out in person, so I rely on apps and services. This has gotten me exactly zero actual dates in the last year, and three attempted scammers (all of whom have thankfully failed so far). The last one turned out to be an elaborate scam to try and trick me into investing into cryptocurrency... or maybe fake crypto? I'm not exactly clear on the details there, because I wasn't willing to do it. It's a shame too because they were _very_ convincing until they started getting impatient and trying too hard to hook me with their crypto scheme. Anyway, I know the dating pool in rural western Illinois isn't as good as it would be in a larger city, but I'm starting to get frustrated again.

5. Otherwise stuff is mostly okay, though I miss my friends back where I used to live. I'm close enough that I can drive in for most big social events as long as I've got enough notice, but apparently I'm also far enough away that I sometimes don't get invited to stuff. There was a big Halloween party last weekend that many of my friends went to, and I was not invited. Shame too, because I was going to be in town anyway and probably could have made it. 😞

----------


## tomandtish

> Life updates from my situation about five pages (and nearly a year) ago:
> 
> 2. My parents still haven't made any progress toward moving out of their house to a retirement community. This despite my mom being briefly hospitalized a couple months ago (for the second time in as many years) with breathing problems while driving. This time it was caused by her failure to notice that the portable oxygen machine she wears wasn't plugged in right and the battery ran out. I'm still trying to nudge them toward assisted living, but they're dragging their feet in even making inquiries, much less getting ready to actually move anywhere.


Question. Do they actually need assisted living (they require assistance with activities of daily living such as cooking, cleaning, medication management, etc.)? Or would they be ok in independent living (think dorm living with your own bathroom, cafeteria access, and rides)?

If they can manage, independent living is cheaper than assisted and much more social. My grandmother went kicking and screaming, but after a few weeks decided she loved it since she had lots of activities and people to do them with. And they'll check on you a few times a day. it works as a nice transition for when they do need assisted.

----------


## Velaryon

> Question. Do they actually need assisted living (they require assistance with activities of daily living such as cooking, cleaning, medication management, etc.)? Or would they be ok in independent living (think dorm living with your own bathroom, cafeteria access, and rides)?
> 
> If they can manage, independent living is cheaper than assisted and much more social. My grandmother went kicking and screaming, but after a few weeks decided she loved it since she had lots of activities and people to do them with. And they'll check on you a few times a day. it works as a nice transition for when they do need assisted.


I'm not fully clear on all the differences, but the answer is probably somewhere in between. My mom needs help getting in and out of the house or the car, and frankly shouldn't be driving. My dad can't see well enough to drive, and neither of them understands technology well enough to use Uber or Lyft to get around. My mom can do some cooking-related stuff but not much, since she can't stand unsupported. They need help with cleaning. and are actually paying a lady to come and clean once a week or so (and sometimes to help my mom run errands too). I live a couple hundred miles away, but every time I visit (about once a month) I end up having to do a bunch of chores around the house and run a bunch of errands. There's no siblings and no family I can count on to step in and help them, and more than once I've had to drop everything, call out of work, and drive across the state on short notice because one of them fell or my mom had breathing trouble behind the wheel or something else similar.

----------


## tomandtish

> I'm not fully clear on all the differences, but the answer is probably somewhere in between. My mom needs help getting in and out of the house or the car, and frankly shouldn't be driving. My dad can't see well enough to drive, and neither of them understands technology well enough to use Uber or Lyft to get around. My mom can do some cooking-related stuff but not much, since she can't stand unsupported. They need help with cleaning. and are actually paying a lady to come and clean once a week or so (and sometimes to help my mom run errands too). I live a couple hundred miles away, but every time I visit (about once a month) I end up having to do a bunch of chores around the house and run a bunch of errands. There's no siblings and no family I can count on to step in and help them, and more than once I've had to drop everything, call out of work, and drive across the state on short notice because one of them fell or my mom had breathing trouble behind the wheel or something else similar.


An independent facility would take care of the cooking and transportation. Cleaning their rooms is the responsibility of the residents, but they can have cleaning services come in. Assuming that can be arranged, it sounds like independent living might work for them. 

This is Collier Park. It's where my grandmother was this last decade until she passed back in July. They offer both independent and assisted living, so if someone who is independent ends up requiring more care they can stay at the facility. 

In Texas the average cost of independent living is about $2225 a month for one person (actually higher than national average of about $1750). That may seem like a lot for a small living area, but remember that most utilities, all meals, and most transportation is included in that. Two people sharing the same room cost more, but not twice as much.

Assisted living is usually between 2-3 times the cost of independent, but at that point they are providing a lot more care. They may provide or assist with cleaning, bathing, medication management, etc. Exact cost is dependent on level of care. 

Obviously each situation is different. Talking with their doctor is a good step to take.

----------


## Velaryon

> An independent facility would take care of the cooking and transportation. Cleaning their rooms is the responsibility of the residents, but they can have cleaning services come in. Assuming that can be arranged, it sounds like independent living might work for them. 
> 
> This is Collier Park. It's where my grandmother was this last decade until she passed back in July. They offer both independent and assisted living, so if someone who is independent ends up requiring more care they can stay at the facility. 
> 
> In Texas the average cost of independent living is about $2225 a month for one person (actually higher than national average of about $1750). That may seem like a lot for a small living area, but remember that most utilities, all meals, and most transportation is included in that. Two people sharing the same room cost more, but not twice as much.
> 
> Assisted living is usually between 2-3 times the cost of independent, but at that point they are providing a lot more care. They may provide or assist with cleaning, bathing, medication management, etc. Exact cost is dependent on level of care. 
> 
> Obviously each situation is different. Talking with their doctor is a good step to take.


Thank you for helping to clarify the difference. I'll run this by them and see if I can get them to make an inquiry with their doctor.

----------


## ZhonLord

Does anyone have a good reliable guide for how to consciously practice and improve one's ability to focus?

Over the years I've gotten increasingly affected by the short-burst content that's filled the internet. Smaller videos, less text at a time, etc.  Combined with having things be very dull at work lately, it's become far too easy to pull up my phone or YouTube and lose myself in it instead of actually doing my job. I need to undo it, but the temptation to turn away from a task and do something irrelevant is strong enough to be hard to resist. It also affects how long I can read books at a time,even ones I enjoy, and numerous other day to day activities.

I used to be able to focus on a single task/subject for hours at a time if need be, even going so far as to completely tune out the world around me if I had even a passing interest in the subject. I want to reclaim that ability, but simple Google searches for "focus techniques" doesn't seem to bring up anything really useful. Those results are more like a collection of diet books that all contradict each other. 

If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. Or eyes, in this case.

----------


## theangelJean

> Does anyone have a good reliable guide for how to consciously practice and improve one's ability to focus?
> 
> Over the years I've gotten increasingly affected by the short-burst content that's filled the internet. Smaller videos, less text at a time, etc.  Combined with having things be very dull at work lately, it's become far too easy to pull up my phone or YouTube and lose myself in it instead of actually doing my job. I need to undo it, but the temptation to turn away from a task and do something irrelevant is strong enough to be hard to resist. It also affects how long I can read books at a time,even ones I enjoy, and numerous other day to day activities.
> 
> I used to be able to focus on a single task/subject for hours at a time if need be, even going so far as to completely tune out the world around me if I had even a passing interest in the subject. I want to reclaim that ability, but simple Google searches for "focus techniques" doesn't seem to bring up anything really useful. Those results are more like a collection of diet books that all contradict each other. 
> 
> If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. Or eyes, in this case.


This is not tried-and-tested (by me) advice, it's a paraphrase of an Elizabeth Filips video from the other day, but it did reframe/reinforce a lot of what I have already seen.

That feeling of "I want to [pull out my phone/browse YouTube". Sit with it for a bit. Accept that this feeling is part of you (this is where I normally beat myself up for having the feeling in the first place/so often, ymmv). Then dig down:

If you are turning away from a task, think about what you are turning _to_. 
Then think about why you wanted to do this thing at this particular moment. Is it because of something you needed right then? What it is about the distractor that had value for you? (This is going to depend what you like to do on your phone.)

Personal example 1: my latest, continual distractor is puzzle games. Why and when do I feel like playing a puzzle game, specifically? Well, when I am playing, I get an instant hit of "I solved this." So I turn to it when I am having trouble working something out - usually I am working through something. 

Personal example 2: playing puzzle games doesn't help me work through my problem, and if I give myself enough time to get distracted, I tend to eventually realise this and get bummed out. What do I turn to next? I check my webcomics for anything new. Why? Because I feel the need for new input (aka bored). Then I come here to see if anyone is discussing them. Because I don't have anyone to talk to about them in person at that moment.

But those same drives can be made useful. I want to solve a problem? That means that problem is important to me, important enough for me to want to mull it over. (I have trouble admitting when I am stuck on something while thinking it "should be easy" - it usually means there is a complexity I am repeatedly bumping into and dismissing. I need new input? Hey, I can do research on my problem. I need to talk to someone else? Why don't I talk about something relevant to 1) my problem or 2) my life, either way find someone relevant to talk to.

So: what on your phone is pulling at you? What kind of YouTube videos are you searching for - is there a particular kind of satisfaction you are seeking from them? How can you fill these needs productively?

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## ZhonLord

> So: what on your phone is pulling at you? What kind of YouTube videos are you searching for - is there a particular kind of satisfaction you are seeking from them? How can you fill these needs productively?


My current workload is endless drudgery, repetitive tasks with no engagement, no thought provoking challenges, no problem solving.  Everyone already knows what needs to be done, it just needs to actually GET done.  And I'm the only one who has the ability to do a lot of it in any sort of reasonable time frame.  So I'm stuck with the work, no one to pass it off to, no one to help out or even lighten the load, and no ability to put it off and do a different more engaging task.  I'm bored, bored beyond belief, and turning to these other distractions to get SOME kind of engagement out of my day.  So I load up music, get on Discord and search for conversations, play a comedic video here and there, read a webcomic, etc., in order to get SOMETHING engaging into my daily routine. 

But the repeated act of indulging in those distractions, in turn chipped away at my ability to focus on a single task/activity even when I'm interested and engaged, due to unintentionally building up that habit over time.  And that chipping-away is what I need to _un_do if humanly possible.  If I'd realized what was happening I could have counteracted it, but now the damage is done.  That's why I'm looking for exercises or tips on how to help rebuild that focus, so that I can actually get through the drudgery so it's off my plate and I can return to the work I enjoy.

----------


## theangelJean

> My current workload is endless drudgery, repetitive tasks with no engagement, no thought provoking challenges, no problem solving.  Everyone already knows what needs to be done, it just needs to actually GET done.  And I'm the only one who has the ability to do a lot of it in any sort of reasonable time frame.  So I'm stuck with the work, no one to pass it off to, no one to help out or even lighten the load, and no ability to put it off and do a different more engaging task.  I'm bored, bored beyond belief, and turning to these other distractions to get SOME kind of engagement out of my day.  So I load up music, get on Discord and search for conversations, play a comedic video here and there, read a webcomic, etc., in order to get SOMETHING engaging into my daily routine. 
> 
> But the repeated act of indulging in those distractions, in turn chipped away at my ability to focus on a single task/activity even when I'm interested and engaged, due to unintentionally building up that habit over time.  And that chipping-away is what I need to _un_do if humanly possible.  If I'd realized what was happening I could have counteracted it, but now the damage is done.  That's why I'm looking for exercises or tips on how to help rebuild that focus, so that I can actually get through the drudgery so it's off my plate and I can return to the work I enjoy.


Thanks for following up! 

This is not a definitive answer, and it may not be what you are looking for, but... 
I'm still on the unmet needs wagon. Specifically, it looks like you are seeking mental stimulation, maybe social interaction, maybe even sensory input.
The thing is, while needs can be important, that doesn't make them urgent. Your drudgery task may meet none of your needs - which can be fine, it's your job, so it's designed to meet the needs of your employer. But if you are also not getting any mental stimulation, social interaction or sensory input elsewhere - in other parts of your life - that can make you feel like they are urgent all the time. On the other hand, if you've filled up on them outside work, that can make things easier. 

So. Is there anything exciting which can properly engage you, outside work? Can you meet with friends in person, or at least with voice, but in a way that promises decent real-time engagement from both sides? Can you listen to music in a place where you can give it your whole body, maybe even dance and sing along?

(Looking forward to hearing how wrong I am, please and thank you.)

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## ZhonLord

> Is there anything exciting which can properly engage you, outside work? Can you meet with friends in person, or at least with voice, but in a way that promises decent real-time engagement from both sides? Can you listen to music in a place where you can give it your whole body, maybe even dance and sing along?


Outside work it's mostly books, video games and a regular bowling league, plus online interactions with people around the world via discord.  I meet in person with friends on a regular basis, at least every other week with each given group, and my home is set up for hosting company. And I can in fact listen to music in this manner, though I only do it every now and then.

----------


## theangelJean

> Outside work it's mostly books, video games and a regular bowling league, plus online interactions with people around the world via discord.  I meet in person with friends on a regular basis, at least every other week with each given group, and my home is set up for hosting company. And I can in fact listen to music in this manner, though I only do it every now and then.


Okay, good. That is actually what I wanted to hear. Sorry for the diversion.

You have been saying all along that the problem is a lack of focus. I would like to check the scope of the problem, so which of these is more like you?

1) Difficulty with focus in a set of specific situations. Eg. you are able to manage and be present in things like group activities, physical activities and activities of daily life (eating, self care, chores), but in specific cases like working alone, or downtime at home, your brain tells you "next step: get out your phone". 

2) Generalised complete inability to focus on anything - whether it be work, the conversation you are having, the leisure time activity of your choice, a train of thought, the food you are eating. The distraction can be anything, external or internal - you might see or hear something interesting, you might remember something you heard or wanted to say - and it's difficult to drag your brain back to the current activity. 

3) Difficulty with focus on anything routine, with a persistent, nagging desire to do something specific and consistent instead. That is, many parts of your life are affected, but it's always the same distraction.

----------


## ZhonLord

> You have been saying all along that the problem is a lack of focus. I would like to check the scope of the problem, so which of these is more like you?
> 
> 1) Difficulty with focus in a set of specific situations. Eg. you are able to manage and be present in things like group activities, physical activities and activities of daily life (eating, self care, chores), but in specific cases like working alone, or downtime at home, your brain tells you "next step: get out your phone". 
> 
> 2) Generalised complete inability to focus on anything - whether it be work, the conversation you are having, the leisure time activity of your choice, a train of thought, the food you are eating. The distraction can be anything, external or internal - you might see or hear something interesting, you might remember something you heard or wanted to say - and it's difficult to drag your brain back to the current activity.


#2, but it started as #1.  Specific cases like working on dull repetitive paperwork without any engagement or problem solving, provided the temptation to pursue distractions and take the "next step: phone" route.  It developed into #2 as I repeatedly gave in and built up the associated habit of giving in.

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## theangelJean

Okay, to be clear, the main distinction between 2 and 3 is that in 3 you end up on your phone, while in 2 you can find yourself doing _anything_ as a result of the distraction - lost in thought, wandering off to tidy something up, changing the topic of conversation, doing something you forgot to do earlier, etc. Just checking we're still on the same page, because my wording and presentation wasn't ideal: they're not meant to be a logical progression.

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## ZhonLord

> Okay, to be clear, the main distinction between 2 and 3 is that in 3 you end up on your phone, while in 2 you can find yourself doing _anything_ as a result of the distraction - lost in thought, wandering off to tidy something up, changing the topic of conversation, doing something you forgot to do earlier, etc. Just checking we're still on the same page, because my wording and presentation wasn't ideal: they're not meant to be a logical progression.


I can end up looking at my phone, getting on Facebook, queueing up a VLDL YouTube skit, playing a podcast to listen to, fiddle with something at my desk, looking at my lesser importance tasks and doing those instead, ANYTHING besides focusing on that which I'm supposed to (or want to) be focusing on. And I didn't used to be like this. Once I realize what's going on I turn back to the task at hand, but the fact that I drift so easily in the first place is a severe detriment. And again, this is a habit and behavior I developed over time and am trying to UNlearn.

----------


## Corlindale

> Does anyone have a good reliable guide for how to consciously practice and improve one's ability to focus?
> 
> Over the years I've gotten increasingly affected by the short-burst content that's filled the internet. Smaller videos, less text at a time, etc. Combined with having things be very dull at work lately, it's become far too easy to pull up my phone or YouTube and lose myself in it instead of actually doing my job. I need to undo it, but the temptation to turn away from a task and do something irrelevant is strong enough to be hard to resist. It also affects how long I can read books at a time,even ones I enjoy, and numerous other day to day activities.
> 
> I used to be able to focus on a single task/subject for hours at a time if need be, even going so far as to completely tune out the world around me if I had even a passing interest in the subject. I want to reclaim that ability, but simple Google searches for "focus techniques" doesn't seem to bring up anything really useful. Those results are more like a collection of diet books that all contradict each other.
> 
> If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. Or eyes, in this case.


Focus (and loss of it) is a topic that interests me greatly and that I've read quite a bit about, so I may be able to offer some advice here (though I am by no means an actual professional).  

Part of the problem is that so much digital media is specifically designed to grab your attention despite your own best efforts, so it's very very easy to slide in the wrong direction, habit-wise. Some of the best advice I've found to tackle this issue was from Cal Newport's books _Digital Minimalism_ and _Deep Work_. I have especially found value in Newport's suggestion of a digital detox, where you set aside a period of time in which you strip away all non-essential uses of digital media (Newport has some more specific advice about how to define non-essential, as obviously there is still some digital media you will need to use if you have ANY kind of job, or family you need to keep in touch with). I've tried that a few times and always found it to be a really good reset button for my ability to focus (I always end up reading a LOT more, for example). It also made it much, much easier for my mind to narrow its focus to some of my creative project ideas that tend to slide into obscurity in my day-to-day life. I would recommend it to everyone, though of course you may need to tailor it to fit the needs of your life. 

Regarding specific hacks that you can implement immediately, I've been experimenting with two work focus techniques recently. The first is the Three Milestones technique, which simply means that I start every workday by writing down three milestones for my work that day. The first is always something that's fairly simple to do but still represents some actual work output (so never just 'check my e-mail' for example) just to get me started, the second is something I estimate to take a few hours, and the third is a Kickstarter-style 'stretch goal' - something that may or may not be possible to achieve within the day, depending on how well I push myself. I find that just having these three milestones written down and checking them off as the day progresses helps quite a lot with my focus. 

The second technique is the Focus Hour, which means I set aside just one hour of my workday to focus exclusively and deeply on the task at hand. I make sure to prepare myself by knowing exactly what I'll be working on, and then I physically put my phone far away from me and shut down all tabs not directly relevant to the focus task(s). I can listen to music if I need to block out background distraction, but ONLY instrumental music and always on automatic shuffle so I don't need to click anything (I like the Intense Studying playlist on Spotify, though I hear some prefer white/brown noise, or ambient). I also close my work mail window, my work chat, and my work notifications and mark myself as occupied in the work calender, though of course you should only do these final things if you can clear it with your bosses :Small Smile: . I find that I achieve quite a lot during such an hour, and that also helps me feel better and more focused for the rest of the day, when I return to my regular working conditions. So it's kind of a double bonus. 

Hope some of this can be helpful. I recommend reading those Newport books if you want more advice.

----------


## ZhonLord

Thank you, I'll have to check out Newport and see if his material works for me. Appreciate the info and the technique recommendations!

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## Bartmanhomer

Hey everyone. I'm very sad today that a client at my job who was also in the self-advocacy group passed away. I didn't get into further details about how he passed away but I'm sad at the moment.  :Frown:

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## 2D8HP

All condolences to you Bartmanhomer

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## Bartmanhomer

> All condolences to you Bartmanhomer


Thank you for your support. So anyway I feel a lot better today.  :Smile:

----------


## Kesnit

This may seem a little rambling. If so, sorry...

Fifteen years ago, a student at my alma mater went on a shooting spree. He killed 32 people and wounded 17 more. (He turned the guns on himself when police entered the building.) When this happened, I'd been out of college for 8 years. But I (obviously) knew all the buildings, and had had classes in the academic building where most of the shooting occurred. It was (and still is) hard to put into words how I felt after this incident. I still have the copy of a drawing done after the incident that shows our mascot, crying, surrounded by the mascots of the other major universities in Virginia. The mascot of our biggest rival, the University of Virginia, has his hand on our mascot's shoulder. 

Six days ago, a student opened fire on a bus of students at the University of Virginia. Three students were killed and two others injured. The shooter was taken into custody and is facing a lot of felony charges. 

Today, Virginia Tech played a football game at Liberty University. (Liberty is a religious university in Lynchburg, VA. It is not one of the schools represented in the 2007 drawing.) Virginia Tech (colors orange and maroon) was dressed all in orange. Liberty (colors blue and red) was dressed all in blue. Orange and blue are the school colors of UVa. The Liberty band was playing the song the UVa band plays when they score a touchdown. All of this is in tribute to UVa. (All three of the killed and one of the injured were members of UVa's football team.) One of my friends (who went to UVa for undergrad and Liberty for law school) posted a picture from the stands to her FB. 

All of this has brought back memories from 2007. Again, I was not there when the shooting occurred. But it hurts to remember that a place that has so many happy memories has been tarnished by something so horrible. And I'm proud that the players from my school stood up and were part of such a symbolic tribute. 

It also has a more personal meaning. I'm a public defender. There is a PD office in Charlottesville (which is where UVa is). I looked earlier to see who is representing the shooter. I could not find the attorney's name, but I suspect it will be a public defender from that office. (Though it is possible that the office will recuse themselves.) UVa Law is a top-tier law school, and I suspect some of the attorneys in that office went there. I know that the office would have close ties to the school (as any PD office would have in a town with a large college, just due to the nature of college students doing stupid stuff). I both pity and am proud of whichever attorney ends up representing the shooter. Pity because, sadly, defense attorneys (especially public defenders) get drug through the dirt when we represent someone charged with a horrible crime. Proud, because that attorney will still stand up and do their job, regardless of the mudslinging.

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## hawkboy772042

I'm going to be visiting my hometown with my wife for Christmas after about 3 years of not visiting due to Corona restrictions. This will be the first time she will be meeting most of my friends and family as well since only a few friends and family have come to visit me where I immigrated to. I'm not sure how to handle meeting some of my extended family since they seem unenthusiastic about seeing me, let alone that one of my cousins didn't even try to reach out to me when he came to visit where I live as a tourist. Thanks in advance.

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## Bartmanhomer

So anyway. Here's the update on my client's passing: Today at my job I asked the staff member how the client passed away and he died from a seizure. I was very shocked and sad to hear about that. 😭😭😭😭😭😭

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## VoxRationis

> It also has a more personal meaning. I'm a public defender. There is a PD office in Charlottesville (which is where UVa is). I looked earlier to see who is representing the shooter. I could not find the attorney's name, but I suspect it will be a public defender from that office. (Though it is possible that the office will recuse themselves.) UVa Law is a top-tier law school, and I suspect some of the attorneys in that office went there. I know that the office would have close ties to the school (as any PD office would have in a town with a large college, just due to the nature of college students doing stupid stuff). I both pity and am proud of whichever attorney ends up representing the shooter. Pity because, sadly, defense attorneys (especially public defenders) get drug through the dirt when we represent someone charged with a horrible crime. Proud, because that attorney will still stand up and do their job, regardless of the mudslinging.


A cleareyed defense of the accused, even when, and indeed, especially when, the crime is horrible, is a necessary element of a fair judicial system. The last time I met a public defender, I bought him a drink reflexively. It is painful when the obviously guilty go free, but far more so when the innocent are unfairly punished.

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## Bartmanhomer

So anyway my friend call me on the phone today to check to see how I'm doing. He told me that he and his whole family got Covid. (Damn, I hate this pandemic.  :Mad: ) But his whole family and himself are fully vaccinated.  :Smile:

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## Lissou

> So anyway my friend call me on the phone today to check to see how I'm doing. He told me that he and his whole family got Covid. (Damn, I hate this pandemic. ) But his whole family and himself are fully vaccinated.


At least they'll avoid the worst complications then, that's good.
Yeah, I hate the pandemic too. Still mourning my husband's passing over two years ago, doing better but it's going to take a long time, and the fact people are still getting sick and still dying (and other are still saying there is no virus which annoys me on a personal level).

Hope your friend and family get better really soon :)

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## Bartmanhomer

> At least they'll avoid the worst complications then, that's good.
> Yeah, I hate the pandemic too. Still mourning my husband's passing over two years ago, doing better but it's going to take a long time, and the fact people are still getting sick and still dying (and others are still saying there is no virus which annoys me on a personal level).
> 
> Hope your friend and family get better soon :)


I know the feeling. A long time ago I mention that my friend's mother passed away from COVID and this is the same friend and his family I'm talking about. This pandemic will never be over in all honesty. Also, I lost a few friends because they were COVID deniers. I will never associate with anyone who thinks the virus is a big joke. Sorry, not sorry.  :Mad:

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## Grytorm

Habits and flaws continue. I don't know why I hang on. 

Today I blocked someone on facebook who I used to be friends with because they fell out of contact and I don't think it will ever be the same and any attempts on my part to try and reach out to them will be toxic.

Also. I've ruined my connection to one of my social outlets, a discord server which I spend some time on. I've never thought that I contributed much to the community and I periodically screw things up in a big way and then overeact negatively. And this time I posted a fairly toxic attackish things on one of the channels. And thats just left me feeling awful.

*Edit*Well I cut ties as well as I could. I could have gone back probably. One of the moderators opened a line of communication. But I've unfriended them and removed the message log from the main screen. And I did the same for all the other shallow connections I had to that place. I feel so alone.

*Spoiler: Content Warning:Suicide*
Show

If I could I would poison myself. Something slow and untreatable. Like Polonium. I could finally talk about all the pain I am in. Just how empty my life feels. And it would be hard. But I wouldn't have to be afraid of the consequences of doing so. I could learn what people really thought about me. If I was still on that discord server I could apologize about all the times I had ****ed up. People would pay attention to me. And even better I had a way of confirming my identity there. They would have known it was real. That I wasn't playing some ****ed up game to try and make myself feel better. Just a way of wrapping up something that felt important to me.

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## theangelJean

Grytorm, I hope you're still there. It sounds like you need professional help right now. Do you know which phone helplines are available in your area? If not, if you're happy to share which country you are in, I can look them up for you.

We all make mistakes. Sometimes we hurt people with our words. Understanding that you didn't make great choices is actually useful - you're not doubling down. You can learn from it and be better in the future.

My own vent:

I finally have the dreaded bug. And, since I tested negative on Sunday when I first got symptoms, I didn't isolate properly or re-test soon enough, so my husband has it now, too. He might have got it anyway, isolating from my husband and 8yo daughter in the same household was never really all that practical, but I feel like I've let them down. And now my daughter probably has to miss Picnic Day tomorrow - she was really looking forward to it. And we have to wait for her to get it, too.

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## Grytorm

I'm still here. I unfortunately burnt bridges to the discord server and now feel very alone. I might try and reconnect there if I am ever not depressed. Like. Just. When I get upset and lash out it is usually in a weird pity party self destructive way. I don't get straight up angry with anyone. I just. I said something that really upset some people and they reacted strongly. And that launched me into a bout of self loathing. And when I lash out its like a weird combination of abnegation, pity party, and passive aggresive behavior. Just. It isn't direct I guess. I don't know how people actually react to my actions. I do know that moderators probably talked about me at least a little.

As for my safety. Honestly I am still not in a great place. I will be mostly alone tomorrow and that probably isn't the best idea. I'll make certain to check in here so you know I am okay. Typing this right now is making me feel much better. If I think I need to I will call a number. Thank you.

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## theangelJean

I'm very glad you're still here. Please do check in tomorrow. 

Also, help lines are not just for worst case scenarios. You need professional help, and that's my professional judgement speaking. A help line can put you on the path to connecting with the help you need, whether that be social support, talk, medical, whatever.

Think of it this way: a phone call for help is not something you can "fail" at. Whichever way you do it, it's still something.

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## Form

> Grytorm, I hope you're still there. It sounds like you need professional help right now. Do you know which phone helplines are available in your area? If not, if you're happy to share which country you are in, I can look them up for you.
> 
> We all make mistakes. Sometimes we hurt people with our words. Understanding that you didn't make great choices is actually useful - you're not doubling down. You can learn from it and be better in the future.
> 
> My own vent:
> 
> I finally have the dreaded bug. And, since I tested negative on Sunday when I first got symptoms, I didn't isolate properly or re-test soon enough, so my husband has it now, too. He might have got it anyway, isolating from my husband and 8yo daughter in the same household was never really all that practical, but I feel like I've let them down. And now my daughter probably has to miss Picnic Day tomorrow - she was really looking forward to it. And we have to wait for her to get it, too.


Once one person in a household gets it, everyone gets it. I mean, what can you do? Assign a single room as your quarantaine prison and stay there all the time? Wear a hazmat suit? It quickly gets kind of ridiculous. This is just what happens when any one person in a household gets infected. As for Picnic Day... well, you can always postpone it a little. It's not as if there's not going to be Picnic Day anymore. 




> I'm still here. I unfortunately burnt bridges to the discord server and now feel very alone. I might try and reconnect there if I am ever not depressed. Like. Just. When I get upset and lash out it is usually in a weird pity party self destructive way. I don't get straight up angry with anyone. I just. I said something that really upset some people and they reacted strongly. And that launched me into a bout of self loathing. And when I lash out its like a weird combination of abnegation, pity party, and passive aggresive behavior. Just. It isn't direct I guess. I don't know how people actually react to my actions. I do know that moderators probably talked about me at least a little.
> 
> As for my safety. Honestly I am still not in a great place. I will be mostly alone tomorrow and that probably isn't the best idea. I'll make certain to check in here so you know I am okay. Typing this right now is making me feel much better. If I think I need to I will call a number. Thank you.


Sometimes bridges can be rebuilt. You're aware you made some mistakes and that you should get some help. That's a very good first step and just acknowledging that can go a long way to rebuilding said bridge. Alternatively you can build new bridges elsewhere. I'm not saying that'll be easy, but I am saying that's within your power. But you're going to need some help.

Call the number. It's what it's there for. They can point you in the right direction so you can get the professional help you need.

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## Grytorm

I'm doing better today. Still feeling down and lonely.

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## dehro

> I'm doing better today. Still feeling down and lonely.


Online connections still count

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## Lissou

> I'm doing better today. Still feeling down and lonely.


I'm glad you're feeling better. Although I'm sure you'll have other times when you're feeling worse and although we all wish that wouldn't happen, it does and you're allowed to feel that way too.
I don't know how long it will take to get better but we're around and we care. *hugs* (if you would like them)

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## animorte

I've typed up some variation of this probably 8 times now an have been debating whether or not to bring this on here, but here it is.

*Spoiler*
Show

It's been rough for a couple months. The usual struggling with finances, kids mess up faster than we can clean, work has begun spiraling downward, and above all (technically _below_ now, <insert unenthusiastic "ha">) my father's illness. He was diagnosed with stage 4 renal carcinoma (kidney cancer). The man has never been a patient in the hospital in his entire life, consistent check-ups every 6 months (you'd think they would've noticed sooner), always been in good physical shape, doesn't drink or smoke... But only took 3.5 months, and he lost his battle just a couple weeks before the holidays. (Get the pun up there? Yeah, this is one of my coping mechanisms.)

I could go into detail about personal life and our relationship, but that's unnecessary. This just sucks, dude.

Okay, I'm doing well. I'm doing pretty ****ing good considering all this shenanigans (I think). I understand that the world keeps spinning and it's the circle of life, all that jazz. I have multiple people in my life who know what this feels like, so there's more support. I'm still going to be there for my friends and family. I'm still making jokes. I know time will begin to space apart those bad moments and thoughts. I've had the same wonderful therapist (off-and-on because finances) for over three years now. I still love me some D&D. I understand that people aren't going to change and their proclamations to "make amends" is a fat load of donkey doo-doo. Whatever. I just...ugh...you know?

Most days I just feel like I can't do anything without falling apart. So, I'll have my moments of grief, then keep moving along. It doesn't really change anything, but the thoughts begin to creep their way into everything I do, and sometimes - I just stop and look around and say to myself for the 87th time this week, "this is ****ing dumb. It doesn't make any sense."

My wife lost her mother to cancer a couple years before we met (the anniversary is exactly one week from my father's last day) so it was rough on her in a different way. Let's attempt to be supportive of each other while we're dealing with other daily struggles...

I'm also worried about my mom, naturally.

This website has been an excellent escape. It could have saved me from some dumb choices years ago, if I knew of its existence. I was invested in the community and conversations _before_ I started using it to hide recently.


Anyway, thanks for reading.

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## Bartmanhomer

> I've typed up some variation of this probably 8 times now an have been debating whether or not to bring this on here, but here it is.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> It's been rough for a couple months. The usual struggling with finances, kids mess up faster than we can clean, work has begun spiraling downward, and above all (technically _below_ now, <insert unenthusiastic "ha">) my father's illness. He was diagnosed with stage 4 renal carcinoma (kidney cancer). The man has never been a patient in the hospital in his entire life, consistent check-ups every 6 months (you'd think they would've noticed sooner), always been in good physical shape, doesn't drink or smoke... But only took 3.5 months, and he lost his battle just a couple weeks before the holidays. (Get the pun up there? Yeah, this is one of my coping mechanisms.)
> 
> I could go into detail about personal life and our relationship, but that's unnecessary. This just sucks, dude.
> 
> ...


I'm very sorry that you're going through so much in your life. Hugs.  :Frown:

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## H_H_F_F

> I've typed up some variation of this probably 8 times now an have been debating whether or not to bring this on here, but here it is.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> It's been rough for a couple months. The usual struggling with finances, kids mess up faster than we can clean, work has begun spiraling downward, and above all (technically _below_ now, <insert unenthusiastic "ha">) my father's illness. He was diagnosed with stage 4 renal carcinoma (kidney cancer). The man has never been a patient in the hospital in his entire life, consistent check-ups every 6 months (you'd think they would've noticed sooner), always been in good physical shape, doesn't drink or smoke... But only took 3.5 months, and he lost his battle just a couple weeks before the holidays. (Get the pun up there? Yeah, this is one of my coping mechanisms.)
> 
> I could go into detail about personal life and our relationship, but that's unnecessary. This just sucks, dude.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear that, animorte. Stay strong. 

In other news: AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Generalized anxiety has reached a decidedly not-fun point. Worst it's been in like, 5-6 years at least. 

I think it's mostly driven by the fact that both my desperate need for a relationship _and_ my complete conviction (emotional, not intellectual) that I don't deserve love have reached simultaneous peaks. So, I'm super-lonely and utterly terrified of romantic interaction at the same time. Nice! 

Also, worried I'm using a close female friend as a relationship-surrogate and going to **** up our friendship.

God I want a freaking lobotomy dude.

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## Form

> I think it's mostly driven by the fact that both my desperate *need for a relationship* and my complete conviction (emotional, not intellectual) that I don't deserve love have reached simultaneous peaks. So, I'm super-lonely and utterly terrified of romantic interaction at the same time. Nice!


No, you don't. You don't _need_ a romantic relationship. I used to labor under the same delusion, but at some point I learned to reprioritize and instead on focus on the things that I do enjoy. Things became so much better the moment I did that. My advice to you as someone who went through the same thing is to simply not bother with romance at all for the coming year or so and focus on all the other stuff in your life. You need to learn to be content without a romantic partner in your life.

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## animorte

> You need to learn to be content without a romantic partner in your life.


Learning to live with yourself, that's the trick.

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## Trafalgar

> I've typed up some variation of this probably 8 times now an have been debating whether or not to bring this on here, but here it is.
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> It's been rough for a couple months. The usual struggling with finances, kids mess up faster than we can clean, work has begun spiraling downward, and above all (technically _below_ now, <insert unenthusiastic "ha">) my father's illness. He was diagnosed with stage 4 renal carcinoma (kidney cancer). The man has never been a patient in the hospital in his entire life, consistent check-ups every 6 months (you'd think they would've noticed sooner), always been in good physical shape, doesn't drink or smoke... But only took 3.5 months, and he lost his battle just a couple weeks before the holidays. (Get the pun up there? Yeah, this is one of my coping mechanisms.)
> 
> I could go into detail about personal life and our relationship, but that's unnecessary. This just sucks, dude.
> 
> ...


*Spoiler*
Show

Please accept my condolences. My father's death was one of the hardest things I have ever had to deal with. But looking back at it, it forced me to un **** up my life and become an adult instead of a 30 year old teenager. So I suggest focusing your grief into something constructive.

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## animorte

> Hugs.


Hugs are awesome.



> Stay strong.


Thanks!



> So I suggest focusing your grief into something constructive.


I'll certainly try.

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## Rydiro

> Once one person in a household gets it, everyone gets it. I mean, what can you do? Assign a single room as your quarantaine prison and stay there all the time?


That actually worked for me.

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