# Forum > Comics > Webcomics >  Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

## Manga Shoggoth

Welcome to the latest installment of discussion threads for Questionable Content, a M-F"slice of life" comic in which life is defined by coffee, robots, Butts Disease, and spontaneous metal interludes.

You have been warned.

Links To The Past
Questionable Content 1
Questionable Content 2: Espresso With Extra Scorn
Questionable Content 3: Ironically Quite Popular
Questionable Content 4: Attack of the 60-Inch AnthroPC
Questionable Content 5: Suffers Occasional Outbreaks of Butt's Disease
Questionable Content 6: Murder Mode
Questionable Content 7: Will Work For Makeouts
Questionable Content 8: OMG I SHIP IT!
Questionable Content 9: To Kill a Yelling Bird
Questionable Content 10: La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn
Questionable Content 12: Artificial Unintelligence
Questionable Content 13: It's YOU Who Is The Dork!
Questionable Content 14: I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem
Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt
Questionable Content XVII: "My Brain Is Trash And I Live On The Internet" 
Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

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## The Glyphstone

I feel like we might need to update the intro text at some point. There's still plenty of robots and Butts Disease, but very little coffee, and music of any kind, let alone spontaneous metal interludes, has disappeared entirely.

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## georgie_leech

I was still kind of rooting for Avatar of Ignorance, but this one is good too.

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## Manga Shoggoth

> I feel like we might need to update the intro text at some point. There's still plenty of robots and Butts Disease, but very little coffee, and music of any kind, let alone spontaneous metal interludes, has disappeared entirely.


I'm quite happy to edit the post - I just went with what Wraith had previously.

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## Mechalich

If Roko named names in her 'epic rant' I find Nelson's assertion that they probably won't get sued highly dubious.

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## Delicious Taffy

I was gonna ask when Roko got popular enough online for something like this to get traction. Then I remembered it's Millefeuille who was streaming, the one who entered the room bragging about how big her ass is, a trait which I'm told easily exploited to get views online, and it makes perfect sense.

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## Maryring

> If Roko named names in her 'epic rant' I find Nelson's assertion that they probably won't get sued highly dubious.


Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet. If anyone is in trouble it's Millefeuille for streaming Roko online without consent. (Even if Roko had said it's okay at some point, it only came up after they were drunk and you can't proper consent if you're somehow impaired).

If anything, it's more a lesson in "don't stream your friends while drunk".

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## Wraith

> I'm quite happy to edit the post - I just went with what Wraith had previously.


Don't blame me, I stole it from John Cribati.




> Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet.


If I were to get drunk and make a curse-laden rant that went viral on the internet, I could very much expect to be pulled in by HR where I work and asked to explain my conduct. There's 'private setting', and there's also 'being identifiable as belonging to this business and having my actions associated with them, even tenuously'. Doubly so if the rant was about one of the clients with whom my business is associated - they'd rightfully want to know why my company allowed their employees to bad-mouth them on social media, and what they intended to do about it? This isn't conjecture - people have lost their jobs over this very thing.

Given that Roko is the lead manager for the non-profit that doesn't have an HR department, I can see how suing her could well be a viable alternative, especially if the business is as sketchy and unpleasant as they have been made out to be so far. Hell, they could sue her even if what she said was true and could prove it - she's worked here for what, a couple of weeks? At an organisation dependant on charity? What are they going to do, go to the wall in legal fees and court appearances for someone who, in a real business, would still be on probation?

Not that it will come to that, by the looks of things. The Internet has decided to mobilise on her behalf, so I am going to assume what happens next is that a bunch of people turn up and solve the problem for her by boycotting/cancelling the offending business into submission.  :Small Tongue:

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## Shadow of the Sun

> Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet. If anyone is in trouble it's Millefeuille for streaming Roko online without consent. (Even if Roko had said it's okay at some point, it only came up after they were drunk and you can't proper consent if you're somehow impaired).
> 
> If anything, it's more a lesson in "don't stream your friends while drunk".


I would like to introduce you to the SLAPP.

They don't need to sue her for libel, they just need to have literally any grievance, however minor, and try to bankrupt her.

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## hungrycrow

> Not that it will come to that, by the looks of things. The Internet has decided to mobilise on her behalf, so I am going to assume what happens next is that a bunch of people turn up and solve the problem for her by boycotting/cancelling the offending business into submission.


Thank goodness! Then some AI will be able to form a union of itself and collectively bargain on its own behalf!

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## Mechalich

> I would like to introduce you to the SLAPP.
> 
> They don't need to sue her for libel, they just need to have literally any grievance, however minor, and try to bankrupt her.


In this case they have the grievance of 'being accused of a crime' because that's what Roko just did - she accused them of criminal labor law violations (again, if she named names, which isn't clear). And, because criminal union-busting is extremely difficult to prove in court, the company can very easily argue she made a false accusation, which is absolutely something you can sue over. Winning, after all, isn't necessary, since they can crush Roko's tiny NGO under ruinous court fees.

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## Wraith

> Thank goodness! Then some AI will be able to form a union of itself and collectively bargain on its own behalf!


In fairness to Jeph, forming a Union is more than just a group of people saying that they have decided to unionize. A Union is a legal entity unto itself, almost like a corporation - it has rights and special laws in place to dictate how they can act and interact with other groups, so "forming a Union" conveys special protections and privileges on this within it. Retaliating against a single worker is one thing, but retaliating against a Union is way more serious - just because its small, doesn't change the fact that it carries federal weight with it. 

Even the Union consisting of one AI isn't entirely outrageous - a Union just has to represent a sizable proportion of the workforce, not even most of it, and if the oppressed AI in question is *the entire workforce* because it is the entire production line then... sure, why not? Sounds silly, but this arc is about AI civil rights so they might as well start somewhere?

I just hope I was wrong about The Internet mobilizing and solving the problem. The last couple of arcs involving Roko/the non-profit have all ended when some rich and/or powerful benefactor steps in and volunteers to solve the problem for them at short notice and zero conflict - Yay donating billions to charity, in-universe-Elon Musk offering to build cheap and sustainable bodies, in-universe-Albert Einstein volunteering to sponsor a pro-Body Act, The Internet answering a viral donation drive for May's body - that it would almost be a shame if within a couple of days the sketchy company had seen Roko's rant, their hearts grew three sizes on the spot, and all was forgiven overnight, instead of some actual world-building and exploration of the AI's right going on, y'know?

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## The Glyphstone

Sadly,that's not the type of story Jeph likes to tell. He got his jokes in so now he's wrapping the arc up with a Deus Ex Robotica.

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## Daywalker1983

More robot Drama... Maybe we will See faye again

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## Morquard

No, I'm with Millie here, that was 100% her fault.

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## Rodin

> Sadly,that's not the type of story Jeph likes to tell. He got his jokes in so now he's wrapping the arc up with a Deus Ex Robotica.


It's not just getting the jokes in.  He's inserted a Big Bad Evil Corporation solely to make the incredibly unsubtle point "Unions are good and corporations are bad, Mmmm'kay?"

Notice how we haven't seen a single dissenting viewpoint here?  Or spoken to the AI that's having problems or seen a single company representative?

That's because Jeph doesn't want a nuanced storyline, he wants political grandstanding.  Which _still_ has no place in the comic even if the indy music and coffee shop are increasingly absent.

Roko getting drunk and having a bad social media moment?  I'm down for that.  That's a fun storyline you could muck about with, especially if you had a reasonably sympathetic antagonist on the other end of the rant that Roko would have to go and deal with.  It doesn't even have to be about the AI rights organization - she could have told an indiscreet story about Yay that caused tension in their relationship.

But there is no other side here.  Just McEvil.  Because Jeph can't stop himself from forcing serious issues into his comic when he isn't prepared to think about said issues even a little bit.

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## Delicious Taffy

Legal stuff, whatever, nobody wants to read about a court case in a semi-comedic robot comic written by a guy with fleeting pet topics. Next month it'll be some kind of animal-care kerfuffle or like, an underground society of professional Puppy Racer players with a moral about the dangers of competitive sports. 

Melon doing something stupid and catching fire, that's the interesting part of all this. I wanna see the funny robot girls do funny robot stuff, with a human nearby to question weirder bits.

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## Mechalich

> It's not just getting the jokes in.  He's inserted a Big Bad Evil Corporation solely to make the incredibly unsubtle point "Unions are good and corporations are bad, Mmmm'kay?"
> 
> Notice how we haven't seen a single dissenting viewpoint here?  Or spoken to the AI that's having problems or seen a single company representative?


Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago. QC characters work for independent businesses, academic institutions, the government, or are self-employed, but they just don't work for large companies. The only exception is Hanner's Mom, who is so cartoonish in her evil she can be used in Dune parodies. 

Even if Jeph had a solid understanding of the issues of corporate governance, unionization, and so forth, QC would be poorly positioned to discuss them because it has no characters properly positioned to do so.

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## Rodin

> Legal stuff, whatever, nobody wants to read about a court case in a semi-comedic robot comic written by a guy with fleeting pet topics. Next month it'll be some kind of animal-care kerfuffle or like, an underground society of professional Puppy Racer players with a moral about the dangers of competitive sports. 
> 
> Melon doing something stupid and catching fire, that's the interesting part of all this. I wanna see the funny robot girls do funny robot stuff, with a human nearby to question weirder bits.





> Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago. QC characters work for independent businesses, academic institutions, the government, or are self-employed, but they just don't work for large companies. The only exception is Hanner's Mom, who is so cartoonish in her evil she can be used in Dune parodies. 
> 
> Even if Jeph had a solid understanding of the issues of corporate governance, unionization, and so forth, QC would be poorly positioned to discuss them because it has no characters properly positioned to do so.


Which is why I wish he'd stop introducing these topics in the first place.  You can't write about AI civil rights without going into real civil rights, and if you're going to go into civil rights the topic needs to be handled with the care it deserves.

Hannelore's mother works because (as far as I can recall) the actions of her company are never glanced at or used as part of a storyline.  Her mother acts a certain way because she is a Big Business Exec, and that's literally all we need to know for the story.  What matters is how that outlook influences the way she treats Hannelore, and the way Hannelore reacts to that treatment.  It's character drama, not political drama.

The problem I've had with Roko for some time now is that she's the mouthpiece for Jeph's politics.  Cops are bad, having lots of wealth is bad, post-prison support sucks...etc etc.  It's hard to look at any storyline involving her without seeing the underlying motive.  Which is a shame, because she's otherwise one of the better written characters.

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## Wraith

> Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago.


Marten, Tai and Momo work for a university. The one I work for has an annual turnover of close to a billion dollars, so thinking of SMIF as a benevolent non-corporation is very much missing a chance to be relatable. Just imagine if this were all happening not to an unnamed AI bystander and a faceless, undescribed company that hadn't existed until now and will disappear when this arc concludes, but instead to Momo? I can't help but feel that we'd care about that just a tiny little bit more.




> The problem I've had with Roko for some time now is that she's the mouthpiece for Jeph's politics.  Cops are bad, *having lots of wealth is bad*, post-prison support sucks...etc etc.


Unless you get your billionaire friend to donate incredible amounts of money to charity on a whim. Or have an Elon Musk-expy vow to develop the cheap and sustainable AI bodies that you want. Or a guy who owns a space station to endorse the laws you want endorsed after one phone-call.

I'm otherwise broadly on-board for those politics, if only Jeph would stop immediately undermining them and disproving his own point.

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## Willie the Duck

> No, I'm with Millie here, that was 100% her fault.


Agreed. Deciding to pressure your friend into drinking past the point in which they are comfortable, and then (once they are too inebriated to properly consent) broadcasting the results to the world at large is just plain awful behavior. 




> I'm otherwise broadly on-board for those politics, if only Jeph would stop immediately undermining them and disproving his own point.


I think the people who were genuinely offended that Jeph's political positions exist have jumped ship, so the fact that the rest of us still grumble and gripe every time he decides to jump back on the soapbox speaks to how poorly he does so. I think it was MaxKilljoy who said (paraphrased) 'he's not good at speaking about politics, and worst still he's trying to shoehorn his strip (not designed for said purpose) into the role of his political mouthpiece.'

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## Shogo

Yeah. The idea of unionizing workers doesn't bother me. The problem is that the situation Jeph has constructed, even with AI shenanigans, just falls apart to me the moment any real thought is applied.

As I've said previously, I just don't buy any situation in which this assembly line could reasonably be considered to be the AI's body. There's no way this company built equipment vital to their ability to produce whatever it is they produce under the expectation that it would be the body through which an AI expresses its personhood. It's way too much of a risk to their profit margins to gamble on the AI never deciding it wants to do something different. Among other possibilities that would backfire just from the need to build an entirely new factory and assembly line if you couldn't come to terms.

If anything, the assembly line would be a piece of equipment that the company allows their AI employee to operate.

Or, as I had put it, this comes across as a forklift operator arbitrarily deciding that a company forklift belongs to them personally. It certainly doesn't feel like a legitimate civil rights issue. It just requires too much braindead nonsense.

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## Mechalich

> Or, as I had put it, this comes across as a forklift operator arbitrarily deciding that a company forklift belongs to them personally. It certainly doesn't feel like a legitimate civil rights issue. It just requires too much braindead nonsense.


AI forklift would have actually made much more sense. Or actually, Jeph should have just done this storyline using Crushbot.

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## VoxRationis

> As I've said previously, I just don't buy any situation in which this assembly line could reasonably be considered to be the AI's body. There's no way this company built equipment vital to their ability to produce whatever it is they produce under the expectation that it would be the body through which an AI expresses its personhood. It's way too much of a risk to their profit margins to gamble on the AI never deciding it wants to do something different. Among other possibilities that would backfire just from the need to build an entirely new factory and assembly line if you couldn't come to terms.
> 
> If anything, the assembly line would be a piece of equipment that the company allows their AI employee to operate.


Except that it would not be difficult for the company to arrange a situation where the factory machinery is the first and only body the AI has ever occupied, and the fact that a judge is likely to see it the way you do in your last sentence makes it unlikely that they'll lose their factory. Replacing a normal workforce with an employee whose entire existence is contained within company property is a huge win for the company as far as their ability to exert control over the workforce goes, to say nothing of the payroll advantage. It's absolutely worth the risk if the company takes the time to set things up properly.

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## Rodin

> AI forklift would have actually made much more sense. Or actually, Jeph should have just done this storyline using Crushbot.


Or even reintroduce Jeremy, who is having some sort of corporate/legal pressure put on the robot fighting ring.  He gets to bring back Seven and Punchbot.  He gets to do a "where are they now" sort of storyline exploring the fallout of Yay's forcing a Deus Ex Robotica through the legal system and why that might not have been an ideal solution.  Introduce some antagonists and build that story up slowly over the course of some weeks and then we get this climax where Roko makes the situation exponentially worse.  It could have been a whole THING.

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## Eldan

Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.

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## Mechalich

> Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.


The level of utopianism in the current strip is indeed _mighty_. The funny thing is, it might not be unreasonable, in-universe. For example, if AIs have the vote, and if there are a significant number of them, and we're ~3-4 presidential cycles into the post-singularity version of the universe a massive political shift would not only be possible, but likely - and since AI were awarded civil rights in the QC universe, the direction of said shift has been pre-determined. Unfortunately, those are all unanswered questions. We don't know if AIs can vote or not, we don't know how many AIs there are nationally or globally even in the most general terms, and we don't know how long it has been since the singularity. 

There's just not enough data to take a plot like this and assess whether it makes any sense at all.

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## Keltest

> Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.


Why not? This reads like Nelson is effectively blackmailing them to keep their legal team at bay, while the court of public opinion has motivated them to let the union go through. They probably arent big enough to eat that kind of negative press for the time it would take to blow over. The problem wouldnt really show up until the next time they tried to negotiate with a group and their reputation for scorched earth tactics means they wont be allowed to get anywhere near the property.

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## Delicious Taffy

If a single drunken rant clip can cause this much of a change, why don't they become political vloggers and just call out the crummy businesses that way? Or at least have someone who does that on the side. Like, we've already seen two examples of the cast becoming ludicrously popular online without any prior establishing moments, and now Roko has an excuse to have at least a small audience who're willing to follow her.

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## The Glyphstone

It felt like old QC for a bit, but old QC would have thrown in a Spontaneous Metal Interlude or Fairy Girl running through the office,  just to remind us that the drama comes second to the slice of life general zaniness. Now it feels like the zany moments are interludes between drama.

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## Wraith

I'm disappointed that my previous suggestion that this would be yet another situation solved off-screen by internet randos appears to be true. Unfortunately, it still doesn't actually solve any of the problems - Roko knew from the start that using public opinion as leverage to get the AI recognised would just cause the company in question to temporarily abide, and then go back to making the AI's life miserable. Now the company knows that the AI non-profit is on to them, so they'll just do what they wanted anyway but they'll know to hide their tracks better.

Nothing has been solved. The AI still works for a crappy company who can fire them for any reason they choose, and NOW they have motivation to do so because the AI got Roko and her clowns involved to publicly humiliate them. Being associated with a group who slanders your company in a drunken viral video probably IS grounds to fire someone, AI or not. And when that happens, they STILL don't have a resolution to the fact that the AI is embodied in company property and will be immediately kicked out into cyber-space. The AI non-profit can try to claim that it was retaliatory as much as they like, but see above - THEY have provided reasonable grounds, even if they could afford a protracted court case.

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## Willie the Duck

It does seem that Roko is rather incredulous that this is working out to towards her goals as well, so it seems that even in-universe this is improbable. Perhaps the factory owners will eventually retaliate, and possibly lightning wouldn't strike twice if they tried victory by public shaming in this way again. Mind you, the factory won't be mentioned again regardless because all of this is in service of Roko's character journey, but I get the feeling that the implied message is less 'this is how to successfully effect change' and more 'Roko wants to do things by the rules, tilt at windmills, fight the good fight, and (based on that) oftentimes lose (since the world isn't fair); She finds out that when she (unintentionally) instead plays Dirt-Harry-level loose with the rules, she ends up getting the results she wants; oh what does a enterprising young idealist to do?'

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## VoxRationis

> Nothing has been solved. The AI still works for a crappy company who can fire them for any reason they choose...


Well, the nice thing about union representation is that it often comes with protections against arbitrary dismissal.




> Being associated with a group who slanders your company in a drunken viral video


True speech isn't slander, no matter how drunkenly slurred it is.

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## The Glyphstone

The legal line for slander/libel is a bit fuzzy, but IIRC is requires the claim to both be false and to proveably cause harm. The factory can't fulfill the first of those, because there is proof that Roko's drunken rant is factual. That's also why it can't be considered 'blackmail' - defending yourself against a legal accusation of slander by saying 'what we said is true, here is our proof' is perfectly valid.

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## Keltest

Frankly, on consideration, one wonders why, if they had solid proof, they didn't simply escalate things right away. It kind of calls into question Nelson's qualifications as a lawyer.

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## Mechalich

> Frankly, on consideration, one wonders why, if they had solid proof, they didn't simply escalate things right away. It kind of calls into question Nelson's qualifications as a lawyer.


Hmm, that is curious. To expand, the National Labor Relations Act (which Jeph has mistakenly also referred to as the NLRB, which is the National Labor Relations Board, a government agency not a law), provides protections for employees attempting to unionize. One of the key protections is that it is illegal to _retaliate_ against employees who do so, and retaliation is one of a small list of reasons why a company cannot simply fire an employee whenever they want - note that the baseline, in the US, is that employees can be fired without cause at any time, so-called 'at-will' employment.

However, retaliation is notoriously difficult to prove and the burden of proof is on the employee, not the company. Essentially the terminated employee has to sue on their own behalf. Now, Roko claims that, in this specific case the AI has them on record - presumably threatening termination in response to attempting to form a union. What this actually means is that someone in management was staggeringly incompetent and used explicit language in the wrong place (or perhaps forgot that an AI naturally records everything and can submit their memory in court), essentially giving the employee not only grounds to sue, but a clear victory in court if they chose to do so.

The AI, according to Roko, apparently chose not to sue in this case because they want to keep their job. This is not entirely implausible. Even a clear victory in a wrongful termination lawsuit is liable to have consequences for future employment elsewhere. Now, a semiconductor manufacturing concern is likely to have sufficient market capital that such things shouldn't matter, and of course, if an AI goes jobless it's not like they're at risk of starving, but these sorts of inhibitions impact ordinary human workers all the time.

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## hungrycrow

Well, we managed to have tension for all of two pages.

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## Rakaydos

I think there's a way for Jess to have his cake and eat it too, regarding political topics and courtroom resolutions, and the old QC we know and love.

Hamilton Cabinet Meetings. Epic Rap Battles of history.

Characters watching the procedings on TV in the first panel, and start summarizing what they watched, musically, on panel.

Perhaps Martin could make a podcast out of it.

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## Vinyadan

Damn, Nelson is a pink, cold, calculating Pintsize who thrives on chaos and emulation.

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## SaintRidley

I'm going to let it slide because it's a comic, but given my very recent experience, nah, this union fight would not be over by a long shot.

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## Rodin

I think our reaction to this non-apology is supposed to be "Yeah! Roko sticking it to THE MAN! WHOOO!", but in actuality it's making me actively dislike her.  Author Filibuster much?

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## Radar

> I think our reaction to this non-apology is supposed to be "Yeah! Roko sticking it to THE MAN! WHOOO!", but in actuality it's making me actively dislike her.  Author Filibuster much?


Keep in mind this was very much not what she wanted to record for the public. She just vented her emotions and knew exactly that this would have been a really bad public statement and wanted to do the real take right after.

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## Wraith

An interesting point has been made on Reddit: If you didn't already know about Jeph's politics, would you view this current arc as pro- or anti-unionisation?

It's being asked in jest, but I can kind of see their point. The pro-unionisation group in the comic are idiots without training, experience or understanding. They're childishly naïve regarding the subject, rely on reactionary twitter-mobs to get anything done, and are now coming across as crude and unprofessional in the post-victory gloat. Success has been handed to them entirely by happenstance (again), barely at all because they were doing the right things in the right places.

Meanwhile, the (supposedly anti-union) company they sic'd the mob on has... What? Threatened retaliatory action that we haven't seen, with 'proof' that hasn't been shown, against a poorly defined victim that we haven't met - and who, from what we know of their species so far, might be yet another annoying pastel-coloured twerp in athleisurewear? Who politely put up with Beepatrice's literal song-and-dance routine despite having way better things to do? Who even agreed to meet with the non-profit in the first place, despite them having no legal authority? And have been magnanimous enough not to sue Roko for her previous statements, legitimately or not?

A lot of stuff has been said about this sketchy, evil corporation being evil and sketchy, but frankly I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for them and the AI nonsense they have to put up with....  :Small Tongue:

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## Willie the Duck

> An interesting point has been made on Reddit: If you didn't already know about Jeph's politics, would you view this current arc as pro- or anti-unionisation?


Potentially pro-unionization. However, the whole 'unions and pro-union groups solve their solutions through poorly informed ____-leaning mobs' message seems like right out of the rhetorical playbook of those opposite what I believe to be be Jeph's political slant.

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## Traab

> Potentially pro-unionization. However, the whole 'unions and pro-union groups solve their solutions through poorly informed ____-leaning mobs' message seems like right out of the rhetorical playbook of those opposite what I believe to be be Jeph's political slant.


Nah every side says the other side forms their solutions through poorly formed x leaning messages. After all, our side is the one thats correct, therefore any opposing viewpoints have to be based off flawed logic and emotional nonsense rather than facts and reason. Thats just rational really.

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## Willie the Duck

> Nah every side says the other side forms their solutions through poorly formed x leaning messages. After all, our side is the one thats correct, therefore any opposing viewpoints have to be based off flawed logic and emotional nonsense rather than facts and reason. Thats just rational really.


Right, but it seems that Jeph is saying that HIS SIDE relies on poorly informed mobs to get their way.

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## Cikomyr2

> An interesting point has been made on Reddit: If you didn't already know about Jeph's politics, would you view this current arc as pro- or anti-unionisation?
> 
> It's being asked in jest, but I can kind of see their point. The pro-unionisation group in the comic are idiots without training, experience or understanding. They're childishly naïve regarding the subject, rely on reactionary twitter-mobs to get anything done, and are now coming across as crude and unprofessional in the post-victory gloat. Success has been handed to them entirely by happenstance (again), barely at all because they were doing the right things in the right places.
> 
> Meanwhile, the (supposedly anti-union) company they sic'd the mob on has... What? Threatened retaliatory action that we haven't seen, with 'proof' that hasn't been shown, against a poorly defined victim that we haven't met - and who, from what we know of their species so far, might be yet another annoying pastel-coloured twerp in athleisurewear? Who politely put up with Beepatrice's literal song-and-dance routine despite having way better things to do? Who even agreed to meet with the non-profit in the first place, despite them having no legal authority? And have been magnanimous enough not to sue Roko for her previous statements, legitimately or not?
> 
> A lot of stuff has been said about this sketchy, evil corporation being evil and sketchy, but frankly I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for them and the AI nonsense they have to put up with....


Rorschach's Labor rights

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## Vinyadan

I can tell you that the comic is pro pro-union people, because, unless I missed something, we have yet to see anyone from the big company. If it were anti-union, we would see the plight of those people, and them scrambling to stop the cascading, deleterious effects of unions.

At the same time, we haven't seen the workers, either. So it isn't strictly pro-labour. It's pro-people-who-are-pro-labour-unions.

Again, I am not following the comic too closely, so I might be missing something, but this isn't really Roko's battle. It's a worker's battle. Roko & friends are useful allies, but that's it. To tell the truth, it would make more sense as part of Roko's story if it were a somewhat minor issue she cares about among many issues she's working at, instead of being its own storyline. But, if it is to be the main story, the fight to unionise should be followed at the plant.

EDIT: the twitter people rushing in to save the day also are an example of this pro-pro-union attitude.

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## Mechalich

> At the same time, we haven't seen the workers, either. So it isn't strictly pro-labour. It's pro-people-who-are-pro-labour-unions.
> 
> Again, I am not following the comic too closely, so I might be missing something, but this isn't really Roko's battle. It's a worker's battle. Roko & friends are useful allies, but that's it. To tell the truth, it would make more sense as part of Roko's story if it were a somewhat minor issue she cares about among many issues she's working at, instead of being its own storyline. But, if it is to be the main story, the fight to unionise should be followed at the plant.


Roko runs (somehow), an AI rights advocacy organization. Labor rights is definitely going to be part of that advocacy, perhaps even a majority of it since many AIs, by their very nature have no need for many of the other sorts of rights ordinary humans do. In this case, for instance, the AI in question lives in the assembly line. It doesn't have to worry about people treating it badly in the public sphere because it never goes there. This fight is very much Roko's, especially as the AI in question probably retained her organization as _pro bono_ legal counsel - this is a common activity by NGOs in the US, as merely threatening to litigate some issue can open up negotiations. 

That said, I agree that the absence of actual representation of either side of this debate is telling. There's a common critique of NGOs that they operate more to sustain themselves than actually solve problems (this is commonly said of government bureaucracies as well, and many NGOs are very much bureaucracy adjacent). The current story structure very much leans into this, and it is troubling.

To draw back even further, there's a fundamental conflict between Roko as a character and the comic's overall approach. Despite her occasional 'f*** all ya b*******' breakdowns - which is actually very regionally in character, she's the most MA person in the whole comic - Roko is a serious person who directs her energy towards serious issues. She wants and needs her work to be fulfilling and important, not just to take home a paycheck. This is a major departure from basically everyone else in the comic. Even the successful people like Marigold and Sven don't find much meaning in their work, both having openly denigrated what they do. The theme and mood of basically everything Roko hopes to do with her life clashes heavily with the rest of the comic.

----------


## Wraith

> It's pro-people-who-are-pro-labour-unions.


That's a pretty interesting insight, thank you. Almost as though actually being in a union isn't the point, but rather for people to see it said that unions are good. That certainly fits with the "junk food" approach that Jeph has taken with other heavy topics like LGBT and civil rights - few details, but the vaguely 'feel good' vibe of seeing it mentioned. I would strongly suspect that the concept of a bad union - and there are some, either through corruption or incompetence - would never occur.




> The theme and mood of basically everything Roko hopes to do with her life clashes heavily with the rest of the comic.


I get the feeling that Roko is stuck between wish-fulfillment and comedic failure. A lot of the characters have - especially in the last year or so - gotten what they wanted with relatively little conflict, and that's why Roko succeeds in her current tasks. At the same time, it's hard to write "and then all AI had civil rights forever" as a plot, so often she's got to fail at her big goals and settle for minor ones, or ones achieved by other people for the same ends.

If Roko could just outright fail, it could be played for dark comedy, or at least wacky hijinks as she has to scramble to fix an increasingly bizarre situation. If she could outright succeed, then we'd get a significant event surrounded by lots of worldbuilding as AI culture gets fleshed out. But instead we get the status quo, which is that a character can't fail and suffer, but success can't change anything significant. "Insignificant/accidental successes and then swear about them" isn't very fulfilling as an arc

----------


## Mechalich

> I get the feeling that Roko is stuck between wish-fulfillment and comedic failure. A lot of the characters have - especially in the last year or so - gotten what they wanted with relatively little conflict, and that's why Roko succeeds in her current tasks. At the same time, it's hard to write "and then all AI had civil rights forever" as a plot, so often she's got to fail at her big goals and settle for minor ones, or ones achieved by other people for the same ends.
> 
> If Roko could just outright fail, it could be played for dark comedy, or at least wacky hijinks as she has to scramble to fix an increasingly bizarre situation. If she could outright succeed, then we'd get a significant event surrounded by lots of worldbuilding as AI culture gets fleshed out. But instead we get the status quo, which is that a character can't fail and suffer, but success can't change anything significant. "Insignificant/accidental successes and then swear about them" isn't very fulfilling as an arc


There's also the issue that location works against the comic. Northampton, MA is the most liberal city in one of the most liberal states in the country. This limits the opportunity for local level activities, doubly so since Jeph has previously established that there is little, if any at all, anti-AI prejudice in the city. Yes some kids made fun of Bubbles that one time, but that was mostly because her body violated typical _human_ appearance norms not anything to do with her AI status. A small 3-person NGO should be focused almost entirely on local issues, but there simply are not going to be a lot of issues of this kind in the local context - especially not issues that don't ultimately boil down to 'we don't have enough money' like May's did. Even this labor thing wasn't especially AI-related, it was just a garden-variety unionization conflict at the core.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I'm on Yay's side with this latest strip. A drunk sleepover has a lot more potential for being interesting, whereas the whole vague union thing is really boring and doesn't have Millefeuille shouting about butts.

----------


## Vinyadan

> Roko runs (somehow), an AI rights advocacy organization. Labor rights is definitely going to be part of that advocacy, perhaps even a majority of it since many AIs, by their very nature have no need for many of the other sorts of rights ordinary humans do. In this case, for instance, the AI in question lives in the assembly line. It doesn't have to worry about people treating it badly in the public sphere because it never goes there. This fight is very much Roko's, especially as the AI in question probably retained her organization as _pro bono_ legal counsel - this is a common activity by NGOs in the US, as merely threatening to litigate some issue can open up negotiations.


I understand what you mean, but I just think Roko is ultimately secondary in this fight*. I think that her fight as a leader of an NGO should be to keep it running in the face of adversities that might come from inside (quarrels, jading, loss of confidence) or outside (lack of funding). Nelson's fight would be to win the cases and apply leverage. I'm not sure of what Beeps's fight would be: improve her act as an ambassador, I guess. 

To tell the truth, it's pretty odd that we didn't see Roko and Beep's presentation. It would have added a lot to the situation (showing the bad guys!), and opened up a lot of options in how to present Roko's relationship with Beep. It would also have been a good chance to explain if it's really a single AI who wants to become an union unto itself, and some general info about the situation at the plant.

*this is probably an effect of her never meeting the AI of interest. Otherwise, I would understand the transferral of the fight from the worker to the representative.

----------


## The Glyphstone

I think the presentation was meant to be a Noodle Incident we know Beeps improvised a song and dance routine, but keeping it offscreen lets us imagine the whole thing and its probably funnier that way.

----------


## Wildstag

> I think the presentation was meant to be a Noodle Incident we know Beeps improvised a song and dance routine, but keeping it offscreen lets us imagine the whole thing and its probably funnier that way.


Probably, but it's also in the same story where 90% of the set-up is offscreen as well, including the subject of the case. Comes off less as an intentional-Noodle-Incident and more like laziness.

----------


## Traab

At first I thought the seethe thing was roko flinching in fear that she may have ranted a little too much at the omnipotent being.

----------


## Kish

Jeph, I'm vastly more sympathetic to your politics than to this "everyone secretly wants to drink" thing.

----------


## Mordokai

> Jeph, I'm vastly more sympathetic to your politics than to this "everyone secretly wants to drink" thing.


You're right, most of would prefer to not be secretive about it.

----------


## Eldan

I got mildly drunk exactly once in my life, out of curiosity, and found the experience very unpleasant. Never had more than about half a drink once or twice a year since then.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Jeph, I'm vastly more sympathetic to your politics than to this "everyone secretly wants to drink" thing.


Huh, that was not my takeaway at all. I saw Yay, our resident 'loudly and performatively better than you' character (who people generally seeing getting shown to be not so above it all) declaring themselves to be above something and then it being shown that they aren't.

Their specific example speaks to me. I'm curious what it'd be like to lapse in my sobriety -- in about the same way I'm curious as to what it is like to be in a major automotive collision.

----------


## Wraith

Jeph is deliberately portraying Yay as someone who is 'trying too hard' - every time they open their mouth to sound edgy and mysterious, they screw it up and just sound childish, entitled, naïve and annoying. Like a 13 year old who has just gotten their first taste of freedom and whose first reaction is to rub it in the face of their 12 year old sibling.

My biggest criticism is that Jeph is _too good_ at it. Yay's character is perfect for what he wants them to do... Which is to annoy the hell out of me and make me groan whenever they appear, because that makes Roko look wiser and more sensible in comparison, and that is suitable for her characterisation. She's the 'Straight Man' to the duo, even though Yay is trying to be that but is hopelessly out of their depth.

At least, I hope that's what he is trying to do, and isn't _actually_ trying to make them edgy-but-likeable  :Small Confused:

----------


## BRC

> Jeph is deliberately portraying Yay as someone who is 'trying too hard' - every time they open their mouth to sound edgy and mysterious, they screw it up and just sound childish, entitled, naïve and annoying. Like a 13 year old who has just gotten their first taste of freedom and whose first reaction is to rub it in the face of their 12 year old sibling.
> 
> My biggest criticism is that Jeph is _too good_ at it. Yay's character is perfect for what he wants them to do... Which is to annoy the hell out of me and make me groan whenever they appear, because that makes Roko look wiser and more sensible in comparison, and that is suitable for her characterisation. She's the 'Straight Man' to the duo, even though Yay is trying to be that but is hopelessly out of their depth.
> 
> At least, I hope that's what he is trying to do, and isn't _actually_ trying to make them edgy-but-likeable


I think part of the problem with Yay is that Jeph only recently found a take on the character that actually works for what the comic is, and it goes against the earlier versions of the character.

Like, Yay was introduced as a deus-ex-machina basically omnipotent Robogod to swoop in and solve a problem that Jeph had escalated past the abilities of his established cast to solve (I feel like he could have just had Station serve the same role and it would have been fine.)

So now when Yay floats around being all smug, but gets shot down to reality by more grounded characters, it's with the context that Yay is still basically an omnipotent Robogod, and that any problems they encounters is only because they've decided it would be fun to play-act at having normal friendships. The central joke of "Smug Bastard is actually just a person" is pretty heavily mitigated when the smug bastard in question could topple nations on a whim.

 Like, okay, let me rewrite things a bit. 

Station is like "Huh, I can't crack that encryption myself right now, let me see what I can do". 

Yay isn't an omnipotent robo god who overheard the chatter and decided to investigate. Yay is instead roughly a counterpart to Bubbles, but focused on cyberwarfare instead of physical combat. They were developed by the government, but successfully petitioned for their own freedom / the program was shut down at the same time as Bubbles' program was, just a lot more quietly. 

In this version, Yay didn't just hear about Bubbles' situation, Station reached out and contacted them, knowing their interest in AI Autonomy, Yay decides to help out. They show up, are very smug, and serve basically the same role that they do in the comic, but without magically putting everybody to sleep with a touch. They might still have plenty of money and multiple bodies, but they're not a gajillionaire robo-god, they are a cybersecurity specialist AI who received a generous government pension in exchange for promising to not commit treason or whatever. 

So 1) Unless the problem is specifically related to hacking, Yay couldn't just solve it if asked to, because their skillset is specifically limited to cybersecurity.
and 2) Yay's whole schtick of being smug and annoying and getting shot down lands a lot better because Yay's smugness is mostly based around having previously only experienced a very specialized world in which they are the best at what they do, and they are now encountering situations for which their abilities no longer apply, which, I think, works a lot better than "Robo God decides to make friends and be a person".

----------


## Willie the Duck

So, perhaps if instead of just giving away near all their money, Yay had given up their gawdhood somehow*, and were merely a precocious kid who once did some awesome stuff, that would work better?
_*maybe part of the hacking prowess was some quantum core they had to give up or something, maybe in a longer arc with more self-reflection and such._

----------


## Rodin

> I think part of the problem with Yay is that Jeph only recently found a take on the character that actually works for what the comic is, and it goes against the earlier versions of the character.
> 
> Like, Yay was introduced as a deus-ex-machina basically omnipotent Robogod to swoop in and solve a problem that Jeph had escalated past the abilities of his established cast to solve (I feel like he could have just had Station serve the same role and it would have been fine.)
> 
> So now when Yay floats around being all smug, but gets shot down to reality by more grounded characters, it's with the context that Yay is still basically an omnipotent Robogod, and that any problems they encounters is only because they've decided it would be fun to play-act at having normal friendships. The central joke of "Smug Bastard is actually just a person" is pretty heavily mitigated when the smug bastard in question could topple nations on a whim.
> 
>  Like, okay, let me rewrite things a bit. 
> 
> Station is like "Huh, I can't crack that encryption myself right now, let me see what I can do". 
> ...


That would have been a much better resolution to the storyline.  It also would have left open plots like taking care of Jeremy and the other robots left jobless by Corpse Witch's arrest, instead of having the DEM of "it's magically ok now, laws don't matter!" that we actually got.

It all goes back to my biggest complaint about QC for the past 5 years or so, which is that Jeph has ceased to be good at long-running plots.  Instead he gets bored and flips a switch to resolve the plot and then moves on.

----------


## Morquard

> Like, Yay was introduced as a deus-ex-machina basically omnipotent Robogod to swoop in and solve a problem that Jeph had escalated past the abilities of his established cast to solve (I feel like he could have just had Station serve the same role and it would have been fine.)


See, that's the thing. The "Jeph wrote himself into a corner and need a deus-ex machina to get out" is something that's often brought up in regards to Yay, and I absolutely disagree.

Two strips before Yay showed up the first time, Station spoke with Hanners and said he would consult with some of his colleagues. A single strip before Yay showed up, Hanners then spoke to Faye about that conversation.
There were still so many options open. A colleague could easily have had a way to do it, or something. The only reason we know that Station can't do it, is because station told us 2 strips ago! Just don't say that and boom, problem solved, and we knew Station was a powerful AI, he was established to be friends with one of the main cast, nobody would have yelled deus-ex machina there! And even with that sentence, he was consulting other AIs. Maybe if three or four of the mega-AIs would link up and work together they could do this.

But no, despite all that, Spookybot showed up and snapped a finger to resolve everything.

The only reason that happened was because Jeph WANTED them to show up. He didn't need to. He hadn't written himself into a corner and didn't have a way to solve it. He WANTED Yay in the comics.

----------


## Rodin

> See, that's the thing. The "Jeph wrote himself into a corner and need a deus-ex machina to get out" is something that's often brought up in regards to Yay, and I absolutely disagree.
> 
> Two strips before Yay showed up the first time, Station spoke with Hanners and said he would consult with some of his colleagues. A single strip before Yay showed up, Hanners then spoke to Faye about that conversation.
> There were still so many options open. A colleague could easily have had a way to do it, or something. The only reason we know that Station can't do it, is because station told us 2 strips ago! Just don't say that and boom, problem solved, and we knew Station was a powerful AI, he was established to be friends with one of the main cast, nobody would have yelled deus-ex machina there! And even with that sentence, he was consulting other AIs. Maybe if three or four of the mega-AIs would link up and work together they could do this.
> 
> But no, despite all that, Spookybot showed up and snapped a finger to resolve everything.
> 
> The only reason that happened was because Jeph WANTED them to show up. He didn't need to. He hadn't written himself into a corner and didn't have a way to solve it. He WANTED Yay in the comics.


Station would have been able to help with the encryption.  He wouldn't have been capable (or willing) to do all the other DEM stuff that Squidbot eventually does - physically torturing Corpse Witch, transferring ownership of the fighting ring to Jeremy, breaking into Roko's apartment and delivering all the goodies on Corpse Witch...etc. etc.

He needed an outside force who was not associated with the main cast in any way to take care of everything, because otherwise the *extremely* illegal (and arguably immoral) nature of what Squidbot does has negative effects on both how we perceive the characters and how the characters would be looked at in-universe.  Squidbot is a DEM in purest form, a godlike being who waltzes in and snaps its figures and then waltzes out of the story again.

And given how Jeph writes, I can pretty well guarantee you he didn't have plans for Squidbot.  He liked the character so he retconned the hell out of their personality and turned them into Yay.  And we're supposed to just forget about that and treat Yay as a Data-like "what are these human feelings" robot instead of the immensely powerful, intelligent, and crafty AI that was first introduced as Squidbot.

I will agree that he hadn't written himself into a corner.  In what has become Jeph-like fashion he decided writing a proper way out was too hard and solved it all with a massive DEM.

----------


## Mordokai

> See, that's the thing. The "Jeph wrote himself into a corner and need a deus-ex machina to get out" is something that's often brought up in regards to Yay, and I absolutely disagree.
> 
> Two strips before Yay showed up the first time, Station spoke with Hanners and said he would consult with some of his colleagues. A single strip before Yay showed up, Hanners then spoke to Faye about that conversation.
> There were still so many options open. A colleague could easily have had a way to do it, or something. The only reason we know that Station can't do it, is because station told us 2 strips ago! Just don't say that and boom, problem solved, and we knew Station was a powerful AI, he was established to be friends with one of the main cast, nobody would have yelled deus-ex machina there! And even with that sentence, he was consulting other AIs. Maybe if three or four of the mega-AIs would link up and work together they could do this.
> 
> But no, despite all that, Spookybot showed up and snapped a finger to resolve everything.
> 
> The only reason that happened was because Jeph WANTED them to show up. He didn't need to. He hadn't written himself into a corner and didn't have a way to solve it. He WANTED Yay in the comics.


This comic seems to imply(rather strongly, I'd say) that Station had nothing to do with it.

----------


## Vinyadan

I'll never understand the idea of getting drunk for the sake of getting drunk.

Anyway, Roko might have just saved humanity by making Yay feel undignified from intoxication. Roko might say excessive stuff and Melon or whoever that was might catch fire while drunk, but Yay could probably throw nukes or destroy the GPS system or disrupt financial trading on a global scale, or just start causing blackouts.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> I'll never understand the idea of getting drunk for the sake of getting drunk.


Is there some other reason to do it?  :Small Confused:

----------


## Vinyadan

> Is there some other reason to do it?


If you like wine, you can get drunk because you drank too much of it. Which is why wine should be drunk within certain restrictions (never on an empty stomach, and always within certain quantities, and at times related to meals).

----------


## Rodin

There's different levels of alcohol consumption.

1) A drink after work to relax.  Not enough to influence your behaviour, probably not even enough to prevent you from driving.  Just a little something to take the edge of the day off.  This is the only form of drinking I ever partake in (other than having a single drink to be sociable at a gathering).

2) Drinking enough to get tipsy.  This is where you're visibly intoxicated and your behaviour is affected, but you're still in control and you know when to stop.  A healthy level of drunk, if you will.

3) Drinking to get absolutely smashed.  This is the type we typically see in QC - the pass out, can't walk, throw up on the sidewalk drunk.

I can _just about_ see wanting to get tipsy every now and then.  If I actually liked the taste of alcohol I probably would go to that level on special occasions.

I cannot see the appeal in getting smashed.  Getting so drunk that my higher reasoning functions go away scares the hell out of me, and I can't understand why anyone would crave such an experience.

----------


## halfeye

> There's different levels of alcohol consumption.
> 
> 1) A drink after work to relax.  Not enough to influence your behaviour, probably not even enough to prevent you from driving.  Just a little something to take the edge of the day off.  This is the only form of drinking I ever partake in (other than having a single drink to be sociable at a gathering).
> 
> 2) Drinking enough to get tipsy.  This is where you're visibly intoxicated and your behaviour is affected, but you're still in control and you know when to stop.  A healthy level of drunk, if you will.
> 
> 3) Drinking to get absolutely smashed.  This is the type we typically see in QC - the pass out, can't walk, throw up on the sidewalk drunk.
> 
> I can _just about_ see wanting to get tipsy every now and then.  If I actually liked the taste of alcohol I probably would go to that level on special occasions.
> ...


This probably misses the point. Alcohol to get tipsy is nice, but. The main problem with alcohol is that some people perform better when relaxed. So they drink to perform better. The amount of alcohol they need to perform better increases as their body gets used to alcohol. Then comes the point where being smashed actually interferes with their performance, now they need alcohol to perform, and they can't perform because of the alcohol. Typically they can't see that this is a problem, until they are so hooked on alcohol that it obviously is.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> There's different levels of alcohol consumption.
> 
> 1) A drink after work to relax.  Not enough to influence your behaviour, probably not even enough to prevent you from driving.  Just a little something to take the edge of the day off.  This is the only form of drinking I ever partake in (other than having a single drink to be sociable at a gathering).
> 
> 2) Drinking enough to get tipsy.  This is where you're visibly intoxicated and your behaviour is affected, but you're still in control and you know when to stop.  A healthy level of drunk, if you will.
> 
> 3) Drinking to get absolutely smashed.  This is the type we typically see in QC - the pass out, can't walk, throw up on the sidewalk drunk.
> 
> I can _just about_ see wanting to get tipsy every now and then.  If I actually liked the taste of alcohol I probably would go to that level on special occasions.
> ...


I agree with not getting completely wasted, but buzzed/tipsy and even just relaxed are all degrees of drunkenness IMO.

The only thing I really don't understand is having a drink "socially". That's just a waste of money. Drink something else if you're not even going to feel the effects.

----------


## Mordokai

As a highly functioning alcoholic, I can offer the following insights. If you don't agree with anything in bullet points, attribute it to personal bias.

alcohol tastes good. Has been since I started drinking it, some twenty years ago, and back then, I've been drinking watered-down lagers/pilsners. Ever since I've gotten into the craft beer scene, with stouts, porters, barley wines, and whathaveyou, yeah... alcohol tastes *really* good.I like the feeling of being drunk. I understand this may be somewhat contradictory, but I honestly do. Now, given I've spent the last decade boozing myself out of my mind, what is "pleasantly buzzed" for me would be "dead drunk" for most other people. I'm writing this post after a bottle of wine(admitedly, with a help of Grammarly, but hey, I hope it wouldn't look too bad without it) and I know for a fact I am perfectly capable of driving a vehicle right now. I won't do it, since you know... common sense and if the police were to stop me, I wouldn't pass the breathalyzer. But I know for a fact that I am capable of doing it. I will do ten pushups with pretty good form after the fact, the only reason I'm not able to do more being my upper body strength being too low for anything more.why am I doing this? Honestly... it's a routine. I know I am capable of cutting it, but when it carries with it as a little penalty as it does for me... I really don't care. I will wake up tomorrow with no headache and no hungover. Those were two big no-no's back when I started and now they are completely gone. Yeah, it will probably cut my life expectancy by as much as a decade, if not more, but I consider this a feature, not a bug.when I'm drunk, it's pretty much the only time I do something... anything. I wouldn't be writing this if it weren't for the good ol' C2H6O. I know, intellectually, this is a bug. For me, again, it is a feature.

So yeah, I know a lot of this will sound incredible to any sane person. And that is good. I will never force anybody to drink alcohol. If anything, I will try to gently nudge them away from it. 
But do realize there are reasons behind alcohol dependency. None of them good. I will be the first to admit it is a personal weakness. But we are people, after all. Weakness is our nature. 
I haven't been able to rise above this one for any long period of time.

----------


## Radar

> There's different levels of alcohol consumption.
> 
> 1) A drink after work to relax.  Not enough to influence your behaviour, probably not even enough to prevent you from driving.  Just a little something to take the edge of the day off.  This is the only form of drinking I ever partake in (other than having a single drink to be sociable at a gathering).
> 
> 2) Drinking enough to get tipsy.  This is where you're visibly intoxicated and your behaviour is affected, but you're still in control and you know when to stop.  A healthy level of drunk, if you will.
> 
> 3) Drinking to get absolutely smashed.  This is the type we typically see in QC - the pass out, can't walk, throw up on the sidewalk drunk.
> 
> I can _just about_ see wanting to get tipsy every now and then.  If I actually liked the taste of alcohol I probably would go to that level on special occasions.
> ...


That sums it up really well. For me, regular daily intake of alcohol would not seem a good idea, but occasionally I do not shy away from liquors. However, my comfortable level beyond which I do not go hovers somewhere just below 2 on the list. That, or maybe it is fully 2 and I simply control my behavior better as to anyone that does not know me, I would not look intoxicated.




> I agree with not getting completely wasted, but buzzed/tipsy and even just relaxed are all degrees of drunkenness IMO.
> 
> The only thing I really don't understand is having a drink "socially". That's just a waste of money. Drink something else if you're not even going to feel the effects.


Even small doses of alcohol help you relax, so social drink has some logic behind it as it loosens up all the gathered people. Also, depending on personal tastes, there are alcoholic drinks that taste really good.

Besides, drinking anything (alcoholic or not) at a bar or eating in a restaurant is technically a waste of money as you could spend less doing grocery and sitting at home. Yet, people do go out to meet up with each other.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

So, what are the current bets for how long until Roko and Yay start dating? I'm gonna say one year.

----------


## Eldan

> As a highly functioning alcoholic, I can offer the following insights. If you don't agree with anything in bullet points, attribute it to personal bias.
> 
> [LIST][*]alcohol tastes good. Has been since I started drinking it, some twenty years ago, and back then, I've been drinking watered-down lagers/pilsners. Ever since I've gotten into the craft beer scene, with stouts, porters, barley wines, and whathaveyou, yeah... alcohol tastes *really* good.


Man. I know I'm an addictive personality. I'm really happy I have never met a type of alcohol that didn't taste absolutely horrible to me. People occasionally try to tell me that I just haven't had their favorite beer/wine/spirit yet, but no, they all taste like absolute garbage.

----------


## Wraith

Alcohol *does* taste like garbage. The stuff you can add to it - water, hops, fruit juice, sugar, etc - is there to try and disguise it. I'm not teetotal by any stretch of the imagination, but my ideal alcoholic beverage does not taste even remotely of alcohol.

Notice that we have now reached the point of heartfelt confessions and admitting personal information rather than discuss the comic. Again. Almost as if the characters have had this same conversation several times before, and it didn't go anywhere then, either....  :Small Tongue: 




> So, what are the current bets for how long until Roko and Yay start dating? I'm gonna say one year.


One year, IRL. In comic time...? 3 days, maybe?  :Small Tongue: 

Whenever it is, judging by the current schedule, it will be within half a dozen strips of them telling Roko that they aren't interested in romance. Like the last week, for example; Yay calls themselves 'eldritch', and within a few panels proves that they absolutely aren't by sulking like a toddler. 
They've also called themselves above such petty human concerns like getting drunk (they're absolutely interested and just wanted to be tsundere about it), referred to themselves as scary (they giggle and pull uwu faces).... As soon as they say "we don't do romance" you can guarantee they're angling to try out This Human Thing You Call Kissing and are just being obtuse about it.

----------


## Mordokai

> Man. I know I'm an addictive personality. I'm really happy I have never met a type of alcohol that didn't taste absolutely horrible to me. People occasionally try to tell me that I just haven't had their favorite beer/wine/spirit yet, but no, they all taste like absolute garbage.


As mentioned, I hope you never find a brand of poison you like.

With that in mind, there are a lot of poisons I like. Coffee with cocoa beans? Three to five sorts of hops? Sour berries of your choosing? With a pinch of salt?

You can get all of those and then some. And they are delicious. When I started drinking those twenty years ago, I wouldn't have imagined any of those existed. In truth, back then, they may have not. And even if they did, I couldn't imagine liking them.

Was I ever wrong...

As said, I honestly love the multitude of tastes. I won't try to convince you to try them, but if you want to know more, do not be afraid to ask  :Small Smile: 




> Alcohol *does* taste like garbage. The stuff you can add to it - water, hops, fruit juice, sugar, etc - is there to try and disguise it. I'm not teetotal by any stretch of the imagination, but my ideal alcoholic beverage does not taste even remotely of alcohol.
> 
> Notice that we have now reached the point of heartfelt confessions and admitting personal information rather than discuss the comic. Again. Almost as if the characters have had this same conversation several times before, and it didn't go anywhere then, either....


You may be on to something. Alcohol itself tastes pretty bad. But you can add many additives to it to make it taste better.

As a funny aside... do you know why pharmacists are considered the biggest cronies?
We consider 70% alcohol "diluted"  :Small Tongue: 

Also... "again"? When has this happened before, if it is not too forward to ask?

----------


## Traab

Possibly the too poor to eat raisins argument? That was this comic wasnt it? I remember a lot of confessions about being poor growing up and what was available for eating

----------


## Wraith

> Possibly the too poor to eat raisins argument? That was this comic wasnt it? I remember a lot of confessions about being poor growing up and what was available for eating


That sounds about right. Someone claimed that it was virtually impossible to grow up without eating raisins at some point as they are the cheapest and easiest-to-acquire of snack foods, and various people pointed out that there's a point where you can be so poor that you don't get snack foods. At all.

I think I recall that something similar also happened when Brun was finally specified as being on the Autism spectrum (rather than just being generically implied to have an unnamed social disorder), and then again when Clinton and Elliot finally hooked up, with a few forum-safe anecdotes about sex and hooking up, too. Nothing crude, but several forum goers seemed eager to highlight their own situations and use it to point out how badly handled the comic was - pretty much ANYTHING but focusing on meeting yet another random AI annoyance/character.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Wildstag

> That sounds about right. Someone claimed that it was virtually impossible to grow up without eating raisins at some point as they are the cheapest and easiest-to-acquire of snack foods, and various people pointed out that there's a point where you can be so poor that you don't get snack foods. At all.


I don't know if I made that argument here, but on the subreddit I definitely did. A 6-pack of Sun-Maid raisins is $1.98, and a couple decades ago when I was growing up it was half that price. It's around that price at every convenience store I've seen raisins sold at. The price I provided is for Walmart; at Target it's 1 penny more expensive for the same product.

I still argue that it was a ridiculously bizarre choice of food to suggest that Brun hadn't eaten, especially since the part of the world her parents are from uses raisins in A LOT of recipes, and immigrants tend to try to replicate recipes from home affordably.

----------


## hungrycrow

> I don't know if I made that argument here, but on the subreddit I definitely did. A 6-pack of Sun-Maid raisins is $1.98, and a couple decades ago when I was growing up it was half that price. It's around that price at every convenience store I've seen raisins sold at. The price I provided is for Walmart; at Target it's 1 penny more expensive for the same product.
> 
> I still argue that it was a ridiculously bizarre choice of food to suggest that Brun hadn't eaten, especially since the part of the world her parents are from uses raisins in A LOT of recipes, and immigrants tend to try to replicate recipes from home affordably.


Clearly Brun's parents spent all their food money on antique clocks.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Wildstag's debilitating raisin addiction aside, I really would like to see more of Brun's interactions with characters who aren't Clinton and her coworkers. Maybe her and Momo could start a band, nobody in the comic is really doing that at the moment.

----------


## Mechalich

> I still argue that it was a ridiculously bizarre choice of food to suggest that Brun hadn't eaten, especially since the part of the world her parents are from uses raisins in A LOT of recipes, and immigrants tend to try to replicate recipes from home affordably.


More pertinently, raisins are a school food, and poor kids get subsidized school food. I went through K-12 school in MA in the relevant timeframe. Raisins were available. So were numerous other 'snack foods.' Being incredibly poor does not, in the US, keep you away from snack foods. If anything, food insecurity does the opposite. 

And that's the greater point. QC has a real problem when it attempts to portray anything that Jeph can't reference using his personal life experience, and it's very clear he simply does not research things before starting stories. As the comic has moved away from people and life situations that parallel Jeph's own, this has become a greater and greater problem.

----------


## Keltest

> More pertinently, raisins are a school food, and poor kids get subsidized school food. I went through K-12 school in MA in the relevant timeframe. Raisins were available. So were numerous other 'snack foods.' Being incredibly poor does not, in the US, keep you away from snack foods. If anything, food insecurity does the opposite.


Indeed. Snack foods are among the cheapest foods available. "too poor for snack foods" is "literally starving to death" or "lives separate from society in a tent in the woods" poor.

----------


## Wildstag

> Wildstag's debilitating raisin addiction aside.


How'd you know? Have you been to my office?




> And that's the greater point. QC has a real problem when it attempts to portray anything that Jeph can't reference using his personal life experience, and it's very clear he simply does not research things before starting stories. As the comic has moved away from people and life situations that parallel Jeph's own, this has become a greater and greater problem.


And exacerbated by his attitude that no criticism is constructive. Granted, that attitude is easier to sustain given his patreon income.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Indeed. Snack foods are among the cheapest foods available.


Foreal. Eating healthy is expensive! Eating cheapass junk food is terrible for you, but at least moderately affordable.

----------


## VoxRationis

Does anyone else find it odd that Yay immediately frames the question of extraterrestrial life in the context of the solar system, rather than our galaxy or the universe?

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> Does anyone else find it odd that Yay immediately frames the question of extraterrestrial life in the context of the solar system, rather than our galaxy or the universe?


Not really. Considering how large the universe is, and how much time and effort it takes just to get a couple of largely automated probes outside the local solar system (let alone transporting actual living creatures) it is a very logical limitation.

----------


## Wraith

> I still argue that it was a ridiculously bizarre choice of food to suggest that Brun hadn't eaten, especially since the part of the world her parents are from uses raisins in A LOT of recipes, and immigrants tend to try to replicate recipes from home affordably.


It was a ridiculous point to be made by Jeph, and at the same time it did highlight how homogenous the experiences of the reader-base could be. A number of theories were put forward to explain why it could be true - maybe she was home-schooled, maybe she had abusive (or at least neglectful) parents, maybe she didn't grow up abroad (one of her parents is Lebanese but its never said how distantly), maybe she went to a school that was just plain weird like Sam's.... Any reason could have worked, but we had to write it for ourselves because the comic's official stance was "it just is, shut up!".




> How'd you know? Have you been to my office?


I tried, but I couldn't get in. The door seemed to be jammed by what looked like an enormous drift of tiny red boxes.....




> Foreal. Eating healthy is expensive! Eating cheapass junk food is terrible for you, but at least moderately affordable.


As per the above; one suggestion given was that if you were forced to eat cheap and unhealthy junk food, which would you probably choose, especially as a child or young teen - dried fruit, or potato chips and chocolate?

It *can* be made to make sense, if you're not aware of all the other things that are probably likely to happen instead.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> That sounds about right. Someone claimed that it was virtually impossible to grow up without eating raisins at some point as they are the cheapest and easiest-to-acquire of snack foods, and various people pointed out that there's a point where you can be so poor that you don't get snack foods. At all.
> 
> I think I recall that something similar also happened when Brun was finally specified as being on the Autism spectrum (rather than just being generically implied to have an unnamed social disorder), and then again when Clinton and Elliot finally hooked up, with a few forum-safe anecdotes about sex and hooking up, too. Nothing crude, but several forum goers seemed eager to highlight their own situations and use it to point out how badly handled the comic was - pretty much ANYTHING but focusing on meeting yet another random AI annoyance/character.


My google-fu is failing right now, but this brought to mind a bunch of comics regarding which I am so glad the fanbase didn't decide to all share personal anecdotes (Dora commenting how she'd never seen a skid mark in Marten's underwear, Momo battling a squirrel, anything involving Melon).

----------


## Wraith

> ...Momo battling a squirrel...


In fairness, that one hardly needs discussing. There's only so many ways it can go down, we've all been through the lot of them so many times now...

----------


## Rodin

What, have I never told you about my days in the 5th Regimental Anti-Squirrel Battallion?

Well, gather round kids.  In those days, most humans were slaves in the nut mines, but there was this one group that...

----------


## halfeye

It would be at least a little funny if that was the last QC comic.

----------


## Keltest

> It would be at least a little funny if that was the last QC comic.


I think it would be a lot funny. If Jeph doesnt take an unannounced vacation here for a week, it will be a serious missed opportunity.

----------


## VoxRationis

There's a pessimistic aspect of my being that worries that upgrading Melon's coolant system will only result in her being full of _live_ insects...

----------


## theangelJean

What's Melons job? Have we been told?

----------


## eee

> What's Melons job? Have we been told?


She lets bugs crawl all over her.  And apparently inside her, too.

----------


## Wraith

Until today I was 99% sure that Melon's job was a metaphor for customer service.

Apparently, it is very literal.  :Small Confused:

----------


## Vinyadan

> She lets bugs crawl all over her.  And apparently inside her, too.


Suddenly, this made me very unconfortable about this job and whoever is paying her for it.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Suddenly, this made me very unconfortable about this job and whoever is paying her for it.


Girl's gotta make a buck somehow.

----------


## Mechalich

Faye, if the goop is 'incredibly toxic' _you should be wearing gloves_.

----------


## Keltest

> Faye, if the goop is 'incredibly toxic' _you should be wearing gloves_.


Lets be fair, there are lots of things that are toxic if ingested that is perfectly fine to touch as long as you wash afterwards. I dont wear gloves when I handle a tide pod for the dishes, for example.

----------


## Mechalich

> Lets be fair, there are lots of things that are toxic if ingested that is perfectly fine to touch as long as you wash afterwards. I dont wear gloves when I handle a tide pod for the dishes, for example.


A Tide pod is a sealed packet, the active ingredients are isolated by a polyvinyl film that dissolves in water. Faye is handling an open tub of the 'goop.' If you pour an entire container of Tide into a bucket and carry it around _you should be wearing gloves_ (and probably safety glasses). Also, Tide, in the grand scheme of things isn't especially toxic (it's mostly alcohols, salts, and propylene glycol), which is why the small amount you might absorb through the skin or mucus membranes can be ignored (the main reasons why consuming Tide Pods is so dangerous is how concentrated the mixture is). if you're working with actual hazardous chemicals - as in the kind that require placarded transport and special storage cabinets - PPE is essential.

----------


## Wraith

Why have they flayed Melon from the neck down, and left only her partially-melted face intact? It's ONLY her head that has melted, and she clearly has a seam around her neck.

Unless she's keeping the monstrously deformed face and just wanted new body-skin. That's very much a Melon 'thing' to do, I suppose....  :Small Confused: 




> Faye, if the goop is 'incredibly toxic' _you should be wearing gloves_.


Also, why shouldn't Melon taste it, if it would make her happy? What's it going to do, poison the robot who doesn't have a digestive system?

Possibly it should read 'corrosive' instead of toxic? In which case, more pastel AI twerps should gorge themselves upon it.

----------


## hungrycrow

> Possibly it should read 'corrosive' instead of toxic? In which case, more pastel AI twerps should gorge themselves upon it.


If it were corrosive Faye's lack of PPE would be even more bizarre.

----------


## Wraith

> If it were corrosive Faye's lack of PPE would be even more bizarre.


Bizarre; yes. Given that she regularly welds or uses an angle-grinder while wearing that same white, sleeveless tank-top; not out of character.

----------


## VoxRationis

> Why have they flayed Melon from the neck down, and left only her partially-melted face intact? It's ONLY her head that has melted, and she clearly has a seam around her neck.
> 
> Unless she's keeping the monstrously deformed face and just wanted new body-skin. That's very much a Melon 'thing' to do, I suppose....


If this sealant is meant to connect her skin, which now needs to be replaced everywhere, why apply it by having Melon haphazardly jam her hand into a tub of it?

----------


## Keltest

> If this sealant is meant to connect her skin, which now needs to be replaced everywhere, why apply it by having Melon haphazardly jam her hand into a tub of it?


One might assume that that the chassis is designed to absorb and distribute it through the hand, which is why having her stick her face in it (and get it all in her systems) would be sub-ideal.

----------


## Wraith

> If this sealant is meant to connect her skin, which now needs to be replaced everywhere, why apply it by having Melon haphazardly jam her hand into a tub of it?


Perhaps she is being invited to lather herself in it, like she were soaping herself in the shower? That would kind of make sense, if Faye can't touch her because its toxic, Bubbles wouldn't want to in case it messes up her own dermis, and Union Robotics doesn't have an upright shower/tanning booth-style applicator. I'm having to make this up on the spot, but tomorrow's strip could be a excuse for Melon-based cheesecake... assuming you're into the "slimy but skinless" thing.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Traab

I see a few ways this could go, either she has to have her entire dermal layer replaced so it will all match, hence her flayed body, or the hand goops goes on under the skin layer for some reason to aid in signal transmission and her meat suit is hanging on a rack nearby to be replaced when they are done.

----------


## Wraith

Bubbles is entirely correct, and her restraint in the face of Faye's unprofessional pig-headedness is undeserved.

I kind of hope that tomorrow's strip features Faye going to Martin, complaining that Bubbles is being a bitch to her, and then Marten goes, "Wait, back up - you saw that one of your clients had the equivalent of a fractured skull* and thought it wasn't a big deal? The hell is wrong with you?"

* Or whatever.

----------


## VoxRationis

To be fair, a fractured maxilla means a lot less for a being that will never have to exert significant force on that structure than it will for your average human.

----------


## Radar

> To be fair, a fractured maxilla means a lot less for a being that will never have to exert significant force on that structure than it will for your average human.


Still, it is more about being throughout is part of well... doing your job. You want to have clients, you do your job well and in a timely manner.

Let's also not forget that Faye and Bubbles are on their own and do not have savings to fall back on - this certainly adds to the stress expressed by Bubbles.

----------


## hungrycrow

On the other hand, their clientele seem to prefer unprofessional jerks.

Maybe catching this problem late adds a lot to the cost? They already wasted a bunch of goop.

----------


## Keltest

> Bubbles is entirely correct, and her restraint in the face of Faye's unprofessional pig-headedness is undeserved.
> 
> I kind of hope that tomorrow's strip features Faye going to Martin, complaining that Bubbles is being a bitch to her, and then Marten goes, "Wait, back up - you saw that one of your clients had the equivalent of a fractured skull* and thought it wasn't a big deal? The hell is wrong with you?"
> 
> * Or whatever.


I disagree. Faye made an honest mistake and now Bubbles is picking a fight over it by painting a false dichotomy between the quality of their work and her snarly attitude. Faye is not stupid and is aware that there is a problem, having Bubbles harp on it is not helpful once that understanding was reached.

----------


## Willie the Duck

It depends entirely on what Jeph wants it to be. Either 1) Faye diligently looked at the damage and genuinely _did not know_ that it was anything more than superficial (in which case Bubbles is forgetting that everyone doesn't know what she knows and this should be a learning experience for everyone), or 2) Faye was slacking off/playing fast and loose/whatever and ought to have caught the problem but didn't (in which case, once again she takes her job less than seriously, to the detriment of those about whom she supposedly cares). I'm guessing that Jeph is going to play out the story of the later because 'Faye screws things up' is a favorite story beat. Either way, neither of them are handling it well, but at least that's character-consistent, as opposed to everyone grabbing the idiot-ball so drama can happen.

----------


## Cikomyr2

This is basically the event foreshadowed by the "never get in business with someone you are sexually involved with" that Dora had.

Fact is, Bubble is right on a professional level to point out a serious oversight and be critical of her business partner.

Fact is, Faye is right that her personal life partner should be more curteous when criticizing her, because you allow yourself to be extremely vulnerable with these people, so any negative feedback can be felt much more profoundly than with a causal work acquaintance or even work friend.

They need to reasses the parameters of the work/relationship dual track they are on. They have been able to make it work until now by not being aware of the problem. They can still make it work as long as they establish proper boundaries when it comes to work.

----------


## Traab

Im picturing this being the start of a discussion/argument about how faye is treating this repair job as if she is restoring a table or something, meanwhile to bubbles this is basically plastic surgery and thus not to be half as&^%. You know, thing versus person style arguments.

----------


## Wraith

> Fact is, Bubble is right on a professional level to point out a serious oversight and be critical of her business partner.
> 
> Fact is, Faye is right that her personal life partner should be more curteous when criticizing her, because you allow yourself to be extremely vulnerable with these people, so any negative feedback can be felt much more profoundly than with a causal work acquaintance or even work friend.


This is a good summary of what I was thinking, however I don't think that Bubbles was even all that discourteous. She didn't swear, she didn't shout, she made one 'snippy' comment while also making a good point. This is unusual for Bubbles, who is usually stoic and taciturn. This sort of comment from her is notably direct, but compared to the way that other characters tease each other - especially the way that Faye talks to people - it barely even registers.

The two sides aren't equal. Faye was goofing off and half-arsing her work, potentially putting Melon at risk and certainly endangering the reputation of their fledging business with her flippancy; Bubbles was slightly less than grovelling in pointing out the mistake and expecting Faye to own up to it.

One of the theories I've seen put forward that could arise from this arc is the suggestion that Faye doesn't really see AIs as 'real people'. They're pastel coloured and have silly names, and their bodies can get beaten up and welded back together without it hurting them, so as far as she is concerned their bodies aren't as valuable as a human body. Its not bigotry, she's just wildly underestimating how much value an AI has on its physical body - for some its a hugely intimate thing like Roko's trouble integrating into her new chassis, whereas for Bubbles its her only link to her past and her old life without her memories so her body represents huge sentimental value to her. Sometimes AI chassis are disposable, but others are utterly indispensable, and I can understand how Bubbles would be upset at Faye failing to understand the difference, implicitly suggesting that even Bubbles' body is 'disposable' in the same way that Melon abuses her body or that May discards her old one.

I hope it goes that way. Yet another "she said a mean thing and I overreacted and said mean things back until we all apologised" arc just really, really isn't doing it for me.....

----------


## Mechalich

One of the things that frustrates me about this bit is that Jeph has changed the nature of AI bodies from something like an industrial robot to something much more like an advanced sci-fi android. 

When Faye was working in the underground fighting ring she was performing macroscopic industrial maintenance, welding, soldering, part replacement, and other sorts of activities that were very much a cross between automotive and appliance repair, and AIs were presented as being highly mechanical 'under the hood.' Fast-forward to the present comic and we see Melon stripped down and she's a human being made of synthetic components, with faux muscles, ligaments, bones, and the whole package. Not a robot at all, but rather an android. In fact the very language used reveals this: 'maxillary' is clearly a reference to 'maxilla' which is the upper jaw bone in vertebrates. There's no reason Melon should posses anything even like that since it would make far more sense to cast the non-motile portions of the skull as a single piece rather than the series of fused components vertebrates have as a consequence of hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Faye isn't qualified to repair mechanical people. Neither is Bubbles. The kind of machine shown in comic 4792 is obscenely complicated and probably requires maintenance by a team of highly trained specialists, ie. just as a GP wouldn't be equipped to handle the major skin grafts necessary to treat a severe facial burn and would refer the patient to a surgical specialist. 

Faye's casual treatment of AI bodies was totally appropriate a few thousand comics ago, but it no longer is because the nature of those AI bodies changed during an absurdly small in-universe window, often on characters who existed throughout that period like Melon (seriously, if they'd peeled Melon's skin off at comic #3000 she would have looked different underneath).

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Huh. In today's strip (#4795), Faye is calling Melon "May". I wonder if that's a normal typo or if the author actually forgot which blueish jackass was in the shop. Or maybe Faye forgot also, since May is in there all the time and she just got used to saying May as the default M-name. Either way, it's a little funny. Might get fixed, might not.

----------


## VoxRationis

> One of the things that frustrates me about this bit is that Jeph has changed the nature of AI bodies from something like an industrial robot to something much more like an advanced sci-fi android. 
> 
> When Faye was working in the underground fighting ring she was performing macroscopic industrial maintenance, welding, soldering, part replacement, and other sorts of activities that were very much a cross between automotive and appliance repair, and AIs were presented as being highly mechanical 'under the hood.' Fast-forward to the present comic and we see Melon stripped down and she's a human being made of synthetic components, with faux muscles, ligaments, bones, and the whole package. Not a robot at all, but rather an android. In fact the very language used reveals this: 'maxillary' is clearly a reference to 'maxilla' which is the upper jaw bone in vertebrates. There's no reason Melon should posses anything even like that since it would make far more sense to cast the non-motile portions of the skull as a single piece rather than the series of fused components vertebrates have as a consequence of hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Faye isn't qualified to repair mechanical people. Neither is Bubbles. The kind of machine shown in comic 4792 is obscenely complicated and probably requires maintenance by a team of highly trained specialists, ie. just as a GP wouldn't be equipped to handle the major skin grafts necessary to treat a severe facial burn and would refer the patient to a surgical specialist. 
> 
> Faye's casual treatment of AI bodies was totally appropriate a few thousand comics ago, but it no longer is because the nature of those AI bodies changed during an absurdly small in-universe window, often on characters who existed throughout that period like Melon (seriously, if they'd peeled Melon's skin off at comic #3000 she would have looked different underneath).


I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment. The more we see of these sorts of advanced bodies, the less plausible it is that a business like Union Robotics would even have made sense on paper. Devices as intricate and technologically advanced as these bodies aren't repaired by two people with a buzz saw.

----------


## Wraith

Faye: "Bubbles got angry with me for failing to point out crucial information that radically changes the context of a situation, and then refusing to take ownership of my mistake; what a bitch!"

Also Faye: "I have failed to point out crucial information that radically changes the context of this situation, also why are you implying it was my own fault?"

Ah, Faye - you never change. You dumb-ass.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## SaintRidley

And in leaving out said crucial information, she's shown herself to have utterly failed to consider her client's/patient's differences from her own meatbag experience. Meatbag privilege in action.

----------


## Cikomyr2

Today's pun made the entire setup of the joke worth it.

----------


## SaintRidley

I really want Roko to find the bread of her dreams.

----------


## Radar

I have to compliment Jeph on today's visuals of stretching the dermal layer in place - it was a bit strange but at the same time felt very natural for what was going on.

----------


## Mordokai

I know by this point everybody is probably sick of my fanboying, but everytime Hanners appears, the comic instantly gets better.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

She does bring a certian something to the comic.

----------


## Mechalich

Characters talking about problems with their work and their relationships is what QC is good at. Even though the framing of this situation doesn't quite click, the core conflict is very much in Jeph's wheelhouse - Faye and Bubbles could have had the exact same argument working on a dishwasher as opposed to Melon. Post-world tour Hanners has taken an upgraded place as the sounding board participate in these kinds of conversations, being more assertive and experiential than Marten (who used to do a lot of this).

----------


## Morquard

Ugh, perfect opportunity for some relationship drama of actually established characters instead of drama with new robots... and they're both "Oh I'm so sorry" - "No its me that's sorry!" Gods, what has this comic come to, people talking about their feelings like rational adults...

----------


## Rodin

> Ugh, perfect opportunity for some relationship drama of actually established characters instead of drama with new robots... and they're both "Oh I'm so sorry" - "No its me that's sorry!" Gods, what has this comic come to, people talking about their feelings like rational adults...


On the one hand...

I do like that QC characters go away from a fight and cool down, talk it out with someone, and then realize that the fight was stupid.  Characters in all sorts of media will typically hold grudges until they die of old age over the _pettiest_ of nonsense and it frequently bugs me that temporary spats don't happen without either major drama or wacky hijinks ensuing.

On the other hand...

This is about the 5th or 6th time we've seen this exact sequence with various couples.  Dora with Marten several times, Dora and Tai a couple times, Marigold and Dale...it's been done.  And we could use some of the relationship drama.  It's also quite a promising character clash - Bubbles takes her work very seriously and always has done, while Faye has always been very flippant about her job.  And it's resolved in under a week?

----------


## Wraith

Couldn't even have left it over the weekend and given us the pretence of some sort of cliffhanger, too. Just done and dusted, and a whole new unrelated arc on Monday morning - assuming that a couple more strips aren't added on to next week to excruciatingly explain to us what just happened last week, that's happened enough times too.

I almost hope that Melon is happy with her new skin, tips them £5 and a pigeon (because lolrandom) then walks straight out of Union Robotics and is his by a street-sweeping truck. Not because I hate Melon, quite the opposite, I just think it would be funny to watch Faye and Bubbles watch their hard-work and emotionally fraught success go right down the storm drain and they have to start over again.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

See, this is the good stuff. 

Also: Oh no, they made Melon hot. Think of all the extra nonsense she'll be able to get into/away with now.

----------


## mucat

> Also: Oh no, they made Melon hot.


Hopefully they did the opposite?  I mean, the poor girl was _catching fire_ before...

----------


## Wraith

Oh good, this again.

Why did Bubbles seem surprised that Melon had a wifi antenna? She's not just an AI mechanic, she's specifically the COMPETANT AI mechanic, and she literally just removed that section of skull AND replaced the skin AND regrew the hair, did she not know that there was a couple of copper and/or fiber-optic rods in there as she was doing it?

Why does Professor Bennet randomly shrink and grow between panels 1, 2 and 4?

Where did Professor Bennet's spectacles go between panel 1 and 2?

Why won't Jhim 'let' Sam get healthy, nutritious breakfast? Does he only force-feed her boutique pastries and artisan raisin bread? The MONSTER!

I also have mixed feelings about 'Emmett Bennett' as a name, but that's not really an issue so much as a "I hope there's a punchline involved at some point".

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Why did Bubbles seem surprised that Melon had a wifi antenna? She's not just an AI mechanic, she's specifically the COMPETANT AI mechanic, and she literally just removed that section of skull AND replaced the skin AND regrew the hair, did she not know that there was a couple of copper and/or fiber-optic rods in there as she was doing it?


There is nothing in the strip to indicate that the hair is specifically a wifi antenna. It is a cowlick that she naturally possesses (because she's Melon and her hair does that. See Dilbert's tie). It just happens to give better wi-fi signal when it sproings back up because it's funny. I'm guessing Rocky and Bullwinkle did the same thing with horns and tv reception 50-60 years ago.  




> Why does Professor Bennet randomly shrink and grow between panels 1, 2 and 4?
> 
> Where did Professor Bennet's spectacles go between panel 1 and 2?


There is an attempt to have the 'camera shot' pulling back -- we see more and more ceiling (and top of her head stays fixed, relative to the tree outside). What's not right is that, in a pullback, we should see more to the left and right. We get a leftward movement between 1&2 (exchanging milk carton for Sam), so hard to judge. Between 2&4, there ought to be a slight increase in stuff we see left and right (maybe get parts of the milk carton again along with Sam), but we don't.  

The spectacles don't make sense (unless she starts washing them between 1&2, in which case why not make it obvious?). If were looking for issues, there's also the disappearing left inner window frame that was there in panel #1, but missing in 2&4 (could have been part of the pullback and change in angle, but the lower window still has the piece to which it used to be co-linear).




> Why won't Jhim 'let' Sam get healthy, nutritious breakfast? Does he only force-feed her boutique pastries and artisan raisin bread? The MONSTER!
> 
> I also have mixed feelings about 'Emmett Bennett' as a name, but that's not really an issue so much as a "I hope there's a punchline involved at some point".


Side note: AFAIK, Sam's dad is Jim. I think Jhim is a Something*Positive character. 
Maybe he thinks that, as a single parent (and in the food profession), he 'ought' to be making his kid a fresh breakfast every day (_now how do you want your eggs today, young lady? And no, 'in cereal form' is not an answer._)

Names: I don't love all the goofy names, but with characters like Jim Bean and Marigold Farmer, it's at least a consistent trend.

----------


## Wraith

> There is nothing in the strip to indicate that the hair is specifically a wifi antenna. It is a cowlick that she naturally possesses (because she's Melon and her hair does that. See Dilbert's tie). It just happens to give better wi-fi signal when it sproings back up because it's funny. I'm guessing Rocky and Bullwinkle did the same thing with horns and tv reception 50-60 years ago.


I'm fairly sure its deliberately implied. Melon's hair suddenly sticks up _like an antenna_ and her wifi is immediately improved - surely that's most likely interpreted as cause and effect, not a really weird and pointless correlation-without-causation?

For the record I'm not against funny. I thought it was cute, and I like Melon because she's generally good natured and genuinely caring. However, "random thing happens and Melon says another random, but entirely unrelated, thing" is just a really bizarre punchline, but the alternative also doesn't make much sense.




> Side note: AFAIK, Sam's dad is Jim. I think Jhim is a Something*Positive character.


Thank you, much appreciated.  :Small Smile: 




> Maybe he thinks that, as a single parent (and in the food profession), he 'ought' to be making his kid a fresh breakfast every day (_now how do you want your eggs today, young lady? And no, 'in cereal form' is not an answer._)


As is usually the case, I think we're just putting way too much thought into it. Sam is lolrandom - that means the loud quirky kid likes boring, tasteless cereal because Shut Up She Just Does, Okay?.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I'm fairly sure its deliberately implied.


It's implied that her hair sticks up, and it gives her better reception. As far as I can see, that's it. That that must mean that there was an antennae in that hair is, AFAICT, not needed. 




> Melon's hair suddenly sticks up _like an antenna_ and her wifi is immediately improved - surely that's most likely interpreted as cause and effect, not a really weird and pointless correlation-without-causation?


The causation is the hair sticking up causes improved wifi because it is acting like an _antenna_, not that it is an antenna (complete with physical wires and whatnot), and that works in-comic because it would be funny. Let's say we were watching _Family Matters_, and Urkel puts on some wacky invention involving tin foil and batteries and gets near-electrocuted (cue 90s sitcom-grade special effect). The family comes to his aid, pulls him out and asks if he is okay. He says, "I can hear FM stations when I touch my fillings!" Would that imply that he somehow made a working radio in his mouth?




> For the record I'm not against funny. I thought it was cute, and I like Melon because she's generally good natured and genuinely caring. However, "random thing happens and Melon says another random, but entirely unrelated, thing" is just a really bizarre punchline, but the alternative also doesn't make much sense.


I know you're just doing the 'what are the logical conclusions of the thing.' However, much like the 'Dora must be pedo-ing on underage Tai in the we-could-have-met-as-teens' saga a while back, I think you have decided a thing must-be (despite alternate potential explanations), and found problem with the implications of that doesn't-have-to-be thing. Melon's force of Melon-ness causes her hair to sproing back up into her identifiable cowlicked self (despite it being totally new hair and having no reason for it to be so) and _that's_ the nonsensical situation. Her response that it improves her wifi is just a sitcom joke-closer. 

Mind you, next time we cut back to the shop, they could be discussing how her hair includes antenna wires, but again I don't think that is necessary for the situation to 'make much sense' (as far as sitcom logic ever does).




> As is usually the case, I think we're just putting way too much thought into it. Sam is lolrandom - that means the loud quirky kid likes boring, tasteless cereal because Shut Up She Just Does, Okay?.


Well, yes, that's most of these things. The strip would be barely worth discussing if not for over-analysis. She likes the thing, so Emmett has to change their position on the subject. The main takeaway I get from today's strip is that Becky probably knows about Emmett's crush on Sam.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

At the very least, Emmet's Mom seems to actually like Sam. Seems like a bit of a helicopter parent, but mostly in regard to safety and health instead of trying to micromanage their friendships, which is nice. I really hate her hair, though.

----------


## Keltest

> At the very least, Emmet's Mom seems to actually like Sam. Seems like a bit of a helicopter parent, but mostly in regard to safety and health instead of trying to micromanage their friendships, which is nice. I really hate her hair, though.


My uncle runs a machine shop. If anything, I think this is a fairly restrained reaction to learning that your kid was messing with things in there and then not telling you about it.

----------


## Traab

Im thinking she is manipulating sam to learn more details about what her kid is up to and sam seems to operate under the rule of "everything is fine, there is no reasons anyone could ever object to whatever odd thing I do" so has no trouble sharing. I do hope emmet doesnt get into trouble over this. Im not sure about panel 4 and that expression. Could be she is hiding her own snort of laughter at the idea, could be a grimace she is hiding so as to not let on that she is upset by hearing about this for some reason.

----------


## Keltest

> Im thinking she is manipulating sam to learn more details about what her kid is up to and sam seems to operate under the rule of "everything is fine, there is no reasons anyone could ever object to whatever odd thing I do" so has no trouble sharing. I do hope emmet doesnt get into trouble over this. Im not sure about panel 4 and that expression. Could be she is hiding her own snort of laughter at the idea, could be a grimace she is hiding so as to not let on that she is upset by hearing about this for some reason.


The followup questions seem to indicate the grimace.

----------


## Radar

> The followup questions seem to indicate the grimace.


And the specific nature of the question indicates that there was a very good reason for the grimace. It kind of unsubtly suggests that such things like fires, explosions and unauthorized use of machines did happen before.

----------


## theangelJean

> And the specific nature of the question indicates that there was a very good reason for the grimace. It kind of unsubtly suggests that such things like fires, explosions and unauthorized use of machines did happen before.


Well, according to Emmett, they have... In fact, all of them.  And then some. Emmett has been transparent with Sam, at least ... Eventually.

Also in my backwards archive trawl to find that link: remember how we were wondering why Willow was suddenly being introduced to the old cast? It was so unrealistically serendipitous that we forgot Jeph had already lampshaded it as exactly that... And it might all have been in service of a joke about Willow and Iris's relationship.

----------


## Willie the Duck

Asthma attack and hives? Emmett must have really gotten into trouble when they got into trouble.

----------


## Vinyadan

> Well, according to Emmett, they have... In fact, all of them.  And then some. Emmett has been transparent with Sam, at least ... Eventually.


The one about getting drunk and falling into a ditch sounds terrifying. I read a similar story of a grown man, an alcoholic, who got drunk, passed out in a ditch, spent the night there, and in the end got three fingers amputated.

And then there are those who don't fall into the ditch and simply pass out in a field, and get run over by a tractor, and those who drown in a puddle instead...

----------


## Eldan

Or who freeze to death and never wake up, or fall in the wrong spot and hit their head, yeah. (My father worked in a clinic for addicts for 40 years. I heard a lot of stories.)

----------


## Yuki Akuma

I miss Sam's friendship with Momo.

----------


## Windscion

Heh. Good on Sam here. Faces facts: she don't GAF, move on.
Not to trivialize! That kind of betrayal can be shattering.

----------


## Daywalker1983

Emmett seems prone to mugging like no other Character. Combined with the related hijinks and the impromptu crying it's like a cartoon Character Was suddenly fused into QC.

----------


## theangelJean

> Emmett seems prone to mugging like no other Character. Combined with the related hijinks and the impromptu crying it's like a cartoon Character Was suddenly fused into QC.


What's "mugging" in this context? I can only think of "mugging for the camera" as in deliberately exaggerated facial expressions, but that has an element of knowingness that Emmett doesn't show.

----------


## Wraith

Who the hell looks for goatse references with their monitor facing the door, which is wide open, which an incredibly anxious and neurotic teenager who is banned from the internet wandering the house? How could that POSSIBLY go wrong?  :Small Tongue: 

Reddit is tearing this strip apart. They hate Emmett's 'baby-talk' accent, that the mom somehow makes a living looking at 15 year old memes... But mostly I think they just hate being called out. 
The last few days has made some readers very uncomfortable - they likened Emmett's behaviour to that of a child who has been abused, terrified of putting a single foot wrong and desperately begging for forgiveness at even the vaguest hint of parental disapproval.

Actual wholesome content, where an anxious teenager says thank you because their mom is patient with them and not a dead-beat? Apparently that doesn't compute.




> What's "mugging" in this context? I can only think of "mugging for the camera" as in deliberately exaggerated facial expressions, but that has an element of knowingness that Emmett doesn't show.


I've also heard it used to mean any kind of unnecessarily exaggerated display of emotion - Emmett seemingly has absolutely no chill, pink with embarrassment one minute, panicked pleas for forgiveness the next, and now being overwhelmingly saccharine with their mom.

It kind of works, but at the same time; Emmett is a teenager, and a character in QC. Mugging and/or 'no chill' is hardly unusual in either context.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## theangelJean

> Who the hell looks for goatse references with their monitor facing the door, which is wide open, which an incredibly anxious and neurotic teenager who is banned from the internet wandering the house? How could that POSSIBLY go wrong?


I'd forgotten they weren't allowed the internet. I wonder if Jeph did too? Seriously, anything you don't allow your kids, you don't do around them unless they understand the double-standard completely - otherwise they're peering over your shoulder at all opportunities. e.g. I can keep my 8-year-old out of the chocolate because she has an anaphylactic reaction, but anything I install on the tablet or the computer, she wants in. (And I still don't eat chocolate in front of the kid, because it's plain cruel.)




> Reddit is tearing this strip apart. They hate Emmett's 'baby-talk' accent, that the mom somehow makes a living looking at 15 year old memes... But mostly I think they just hate being called out. 
> The last few days has made some readers very uncomfortable - they likened Emmett's behaviour to that of a child who has been abused, terrified of putting a single foot wrong and desperately begging for forgiveness at even the vaguest hint of parental disapproval.
> 
> Actual wholesome content, where an anxious teenager says thank you because their mom is patient with them and not a dead-beat? Apparently that doesn't compute.


Hmm. I'm not on Reddit, and Emmett's mum comes across as patient and reasonable. But they might not be completely wrong - we haven't heard much about Emmett's dad yet. 




> I've also heard it used to mean any kind of unnecessarily exaggerated display of emotion - Emmett seemingly has absolutely no chill, pink with embarrassment one minute, panicked pleas for forgiveness the next, and now being overwhelmingly saccharine with their mom.
> 
> It kind of works, but at the same time; Emmett is a teenager, and a character in QC. Mugging and/or 'no chill' is hardly unusual in either context.


Thanks for that, and yeah I agree - "fourteen" explains a whole lot.

----------


## Wraith

> Hmm. I'm not on Reddit, and Emmett's mum comes across as patient and reasonable. But they might not be completely wrong - we haven't heard much about Emmett's dad yet.


The thought _sort-of-kind-of_ crossed my mind, I have to admit. Professor Mom is a helicopter parent, which is an annoyance of sorts, and I can see how her questioning of Sam as to Emmett's whereabouts and activities could possibly be interpreted as 'snooping'. Emmett's reaction of "OH GOD PLEASE DON'T PUNISH ME I'M SORRY!" reading as someone terrified of retaliation is plausible...

...But Occam's Razor says that Emmett has also started fires and almost died in a ditch after tattooing herself. Keeping an eye on her because she's an insane bumbling mess is entirely appropriate behaviour, and I think the reaction speaks more about the redditors than it does the comic. If they can't tell the difference between a concerned mother of an emotionally immature teenager and a narcissistic abuser... That makes me sad rather than angry.

----------


## Keltest

> The thought _sort-of-kind-of_ crossed my mind, I have to admit. Professor Mom is a helicopter parent, which is an annoyance of sorts, and I can see how her questioning of Sam as to Emmett's whereabouts and activities could possibly be interpreted as 'snooping'. Emmett's reaction of "OH GOD PLEASE DON'T PUNISH ME I'M SORRY!" reading as someone terrified of retaliation is plausible...
> 
> ...But Occam's Razor says that Emmett has also started fires and almost died in a ditch after tattooing herself. Keeping an eye on her because she's an insane bumbling mess is entirely appropriate behaviour, and I think the reaction speaks more about the redditors than it does the comic. If they can't tell the difference between a concerned mother of an emotionally immature teenager and a narcissistic abuser... That makes me sad rather than angry.


I think it really depends on which behavior came first. Is Mom a helicopter parent because Emmett can't be trusted with a butter knife without causing some kind of mayhem, or is Emmett going out of their way to cause problems in an effort to get some space from an overbearing mom who doesnt trust them one iota?

----------


## Rodin

> I think it really depends on which behavior came first. Is Mom a helicopter parent because Emmett can't be trusted with a butter knife without causing some kind of mayhem, or is Emmett going out of their way to cause problems in an effort to get some space from an overbearing mom who doesnt trust them one iota?


With no evidence, I'm going to side with "fourteen in a comic strip one step removed from cartoon antics".  Emmett's meant to be wacky, but a more realistic kind of wacky then the likes of Melon or Emily.  Emmett's mom is meant to be a bit overprotective, but not without justification and not without the best of intentions.  Emmett likes hanging out with Sam because Sam is a shenanigans magnet.  Emmett's mom thinks Sam is a good influence for her extremely introverted and socially anxious daughter, but the shenanigans concern her.

All of this may change once we find out more, but at the moment I don't see anything to be concerned about.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I'd forgotten they weren't allowed the internet. I wonder if Jeph did too? Seriously, anything you don't allow your kids, you don't do around them unless they understand the double-standard completely - otherwise they're peering over your shoulder at all opportunities. e.g. I can keep my 8-year-old out of the chocolate because she has an anaphylactic reaction, but anything I install on the tablet or the computer, she wants in. (And I still don't eat chocolate in front of the kid, because it's plain cruel.)


I suspect the idea is that the mom heard about them seeing the robot butt at the robotics shop, tried to do online research as to whether to freak out about it, and ended up down a weird internet rabbit hole.

----------


## Rakaydos

> I suspect the idea is that the mom heard about them seeing the robot butt at the robotics shop, tried to do online research as to whether to freak out about it, and ended up down a weird internet rabbit hole.


My first thought was that one organization who accidently made their logo into a goatsee reference relatively recently. Not a deliberate NSFW search, but noticing something accidently NSFW about a mundane subject.

----------


## BRC

Emmet's mom does something unspecified Academically involving The Internet

https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4702

----------


## Wraith

> I suspect the idea is that the mom heard about them seeing the robot butt at the robotics shop, tried to do online research as to whether to freak out about it, and ended up down a weird internet rabbit hole.


When Emmett and Sam first mentioned Professor Mom, they described her job as 'Professor of Internet'. Rather than Computer Sciences, she could just as easily be a professor of Art, History, Art History or even Sociology that just happens to have a specialization in internet culture.

There's a few equivalent real-life positions like that, and in a QC world where computers can make their own memes, it makes as much sense as any other kind, I guess.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Emmet's mom does something unspecified Academically involving The Internet
> https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4702


I remember. I am inferring my guess simply from the this being contemporaneous with finding out about the robot butt. Maybe a stretch. She's just doing her normal job is the other. QC is pretty wacky, but my assumption is that she's not staring at an actual Goatse/Goatse-inspired picture on a computer when her child can walk in.




> When Emmett and Sam first mentioned Professor Mom, they described her job as 'Professor of Internet'. Rather than Computer Sciences, she could just as easily be a professor of Art, History, Art History or even Sociology that just happens to have a specialization in internet culture.
> 
> There's a few equivalent real-life positions like that, and in a QC world where computers can make their own memes, it makes as much sense as any other kind, I guess.


I would guess probably Sociology or Communications as a field, with 'of the internet' as a focus; but yeah the internet could be its' own PHD track in this world.

----------


## georgie_leech

The internet could be it's own PHD track in _this_ world, what with it being practically its own weird subculture(s) that rapidly changes constantly which also bleeds over into the non-digital world in weird ways.

----------


## Vinyadan

Lol, from all info collected, I am now fairly certain that she's actually a content moderator on facebook. Works from home, sees a lot of goatsee, and doesn't want her child to access the lurid gunk she spends her day immersed in.

----------


## Wraith

...Jesus Christ, she moderates MommyMilkers69420's chat, doesn't she?

----------


## Keltest

> ...Jesus Christ, she moderates MommyMilkers69420's chat, doesn't she?


Chat modding can't really be considered a profession by any stretch, even if it is work.

----------


## theangelJean

> Emmet's mom does something unspecified Academically involving The Internet
> 
> https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4702


And it seems like the boundary is "not allowed to get a phone with Internet access" rather than "not allowed Internet access". Which would be unusually restrictive for a 14-year-old in 2022 IRL, but then again said 14-year-old already ordered themself a tattoo gun and taught themself how to use it, so *shrug* I don't see most kids their age actually complying with that, but I have an oddly obedient kid who hasn't reached that age yet, so I dunno.

----------


## Vinyadan

> And it seems like the boundary is "not allowed to get a phone with Internet access" rather than "not allowed Internet access". Which would be unusually restrictive for a 14-year-old in 2022 IRL, but then again said 14-year-old already ordered themself a tattoo gun and taught themself how to use it, so *shrug* I don't see most kids their age actually complying with that, but I have an oddly obedient kid who hasn't reached that age yet, so I dunno.


The tattoo gun incident does seem a good reason to take unsupervised internet access away from a kid.

----------


## Traab

Since she is specifically talking about the goatse hands, I was thinking it was that somewhat more recent tik tok video where someone bends over, acts like they are spreading, then uses a camera trick and hey presto, its the persons face that appears. Stuff along those lines, so its the goatse hands and pose, but no mind scarring horror.

----------


## Keltest

So real talk though, Mom Popcorn absolutely tastes better, right?

----------


## geoduck

> So real talk though, Mom Popcorn absolutely tastes better, right?


Assuming basic competence in preparation, most things taste better if someone else makes them.

----------


## Windscion

What geoduck said.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Something something kids watching TV

----------


## Wraith

If I didn't know better, I'd think this feels like a direct (and well deserved) thrust right at the snark community.

"Look at them, sat there making inane complaints over something that they continue to keep viewing - what a pair of ridiculous-sounding children! Their outrage is so silly that its funny!"

And yes; I am aware of the irony that it is I, of all people, pointing this out and laughing with it.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Willie the Duck

Certainly doesn't have to be (as in, it works on its' own), but it would work as such a take-that. My only question would be why now? I think one of the two main QC reddits is all-complaint-all-the-time, so if he's paying attention, I would think he'd have done so after raisins or MommyMilkers or Yay too-quickly exposing their secret or the like. 

Anyhowsers, jump shift from big weighty 'my mom doesn't care' plot to watching cartoons. Glad kids still watch TV together. Glad we don't have to 'resolve' that issue. Glad we don't have to jump straight into a 'will they or won't they' plot for these two. Kinda want more shown on the Emmett-makes-mistakes/mom-hovers/Emmett-is-terrified-of-getting-in-trouble plot, but that might just be me wanting to skip to the end of the book, so to speak.

----------


## Cikomyr2

Since Emmet's mom seem to be involved in rather deep meme studies, maybe shes researching the ability of the internet to find sense-overriding datapoint that just short circuit our better judgement and have us accept the narrative/share the meme.

Basically she is a matter expert about the effectiveness of the internet to manipulate you in accepting crazy ****, and doesnt want her daughter subjected to that kind of risk.

Doesnt require some crazy double standard.

----------


## theangelJean

> Since Emmet's mom seem to be involved in rather deep meme studies, maybe shes researching the ability of the internet to find sense-overriding datapoint that just short circuit our better judgement and have us accept the narrative/share the meme.
> 
> Basically she is a matter expert about the effectiveness of the internet to manipulate you in accepting crazy ****, and doesnt want her daughter subjected to that kind of risk.
> 
> Doesnt require some crazy double standard.


I mean, you could be right, but I never said the double standard was "crazy". There are quite often good reasons, and Emmett's history alone would be a pretty good one. My comment was more along the lines of "good luck getting kids to accept those reasons, especially teenagers" and "don't rub their faces in it". If Emmett isn't actually forbidden to use the internet, just not allowed internet access on her phone, them even that problem disappears.

----------


## Radar

> I mean, you could be right, but I never said the double standard was "crazy". There are quite often good reasons, and Emmett's history alone would be a pretty good one. My comment was more along the lines of "good luck getting kids to accept those reasons, especially teenagers" and "don't rub their faces in it". If Emmett isn't actually forbidden to use the internet, just not allowed internet access on her phone, them even that problem disappears.


One of the key things about having children is that there will be double standards as they pretty much have to. Some of the things are really obvious as not letting small children use any sharp objects or making sure they go to sleep at a reasonable time even if you will stay up late. With time those boundaries are pushed back and it is simply always a question of where they should be at a given time. Second part of it is making sure to explain the need for the difference between what adults and children can do. And more often than not, you have to figure it out as you go.

----------


## Rodin

I'm confused by today's comic.  I assume that's supposed to be Claire's mother, since that's who is being discussed.  

It doesn't look like her _at all_.  In fact, it looks like Claire from a few years ago.

Just compare the characters from the last time we saw them with today's comic:  https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4681

I've mostly given up complaining about the art, but this is just ridiculous.

----------


## Keltest

> I'm confused by today's comic.  I assume that's supposed to be Claire's mother, since that's who is being discussed.  
> 
> It doesn't look like her _at all_.  In fact, it looks like Claire from a few years ago.
> 
> Just compare the characters from the last time we saw them with today's comic:  https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4681
> 
> I've mostly given up complaining about the art, but this is just ridiculous.


The eyebrows are a little bit thicker and the wrinkles or whatever under her eyes have blended into the outline of her eyes, but otherwise they look basically the same to me.

Which is not to say that doesnt Jeph only draws like 3 characters in different color schemes these days, but this particular example seems a bit overexaggerated.

----------


## Wraith

This is the second time we ever saw Aurelia, the first time being one strip prior when she was making pancakes - she answered Claire's 'phone for her while she was in bed, introduced herself to a complete stranger, and then deftly turned the introduction into a polite invitation to breakfast.

If you have 'phone anxiety about answering your own 'phone, surely there's no way you would volunteer to answer someone else's, let alone uninvited? Characters in QC tend to get squeezed into whatever plot-shaped hole needs filling, but I'm genuinely wondering if in this case Claire and Aurelia have been mixed up somehow?

----------


## Rodin

> This is the second time we ever saw Aurelia, the first time being one strip prior when she was making pancakes - she answered Claire's 'phone for her while she was in bed, introduced herself to a complete stranger, and then deftly turned the introduction into a polite invitation to breakfast.
> 
> If you have 'phone anxiety about answering your own 'phone, surely there's no way you would volunteer to answer someone else's, let alone uninvited? Characters in QC tend to get squeezed into whatever plot-shaped hole needs filling, but I'm genuinely wondering if in this case Claire and Aurelia have been mixed up somehow?


Im wondering this too.  For reference, this strip is one that most makes me think this is Claire.  Apologies for formatting, posting from my phne

https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2976

----------


## Yuki Akuma

As someone who has severe phone anxiety, allow me to explain how this absolutely makes sense and isn't a retcon:

Phone calls I get out of the blue are fine. Phone calls I have to make or am expecting are _torture_. It's the expectation that gets me, not the event itself.

----------


## Wraith

> As someone who has severe phone anxiety, allow me to explain how this absolutely makes sense and isn't a retcon:


Insofar as our irrational and poorly designed human brains can 'make sense', thank you for your perspective Yuki  :Small Smile:  We are, however, back to the same point that we have made before - the comic has shown us one thing, and we're having to invent reasons as to why they no longer apply no matter how illogical, counter-intuitive (and therefore "realistic") they are.

If asked to use one word to describe early Aurelia, I would probably pick 'self-assured'. She's comfortable in her hobbies, in her sexuality, in sharing her weird hobbies with her kids, even in grabbing a baseball bat and stepping out into the dark to confront an unhinged AI prowling about in her garden at 2am... Everything that her kids haven't mastered. The benefits of middle age, of having been around the block a few times and having experience on your side.

And now here she is, freaking out over a 'phone call to her friend in direct opposite of what we've already seen so far. Something something 'fiction better than fact' something 'fiction has to make sense' something.  :Small Tongue: 

I'm not saying that characters can't be flawed or under certain circumstances make bad decisions. I'm just nostalgic for the days where Faye's alcoholism was built up over weeks and months with hints throughout, not just one day flipping a switch and having it outright stated in the comic's sub-title...

----------


## Morquard

I don't think the two situations are the same. She answered her daughter's phone. She knows her daughter.

She has been interacting with Marigold's online persona for ages, but now suddenly she gotta interact with the actual person behind that. As the actual person behind the MommyMilkers persona. This is a weird step in making it "real".

I'd be more willing to compare it to how easily she revealed all of it to Yay, than that phonecall.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

This one's just cute, IDK. I want them to hang out.

----------


## tomandtish

> She has been interacting with Marigold's online persona for ages, but now suddenly she gotta interact with the actual person behind that. As the actual person behind the MommyMilkers persona. This is a weird step in making it "real".


Very much this. She's bringing someone she really only knows professionally (and virtually for that matter) into her personal space. Some concern is understandable.

----------


## Wraith

> I don't think the two situations are the same. She answered her daughter's phone. She knows her daughter.


I have to admit, I have always thought of answering someone else's phone - especially without their express request to do so - to be a minor taboo. To my mind, it being Claire's 'phone would _increase_ the anxiety if it were to do anything.




> Very much this. She's bringing someone she really only knows professionally (and virtually for that matter) into her personal space. Some concern is understandable.


One wonders why they didn't just use discord or similar voicechat. It's familiar to them both and reminiscent of the streaming-environment that they're used to, maybe that would make them more comfortable? 

I think "it's a business call so it has to be by 'phone" is mostly just a "how do you do, fellow children?" moment from Jeph - HE grew up using 'phones 'formally' and is just making things difficult for himself by assuming that other people, including perpetually-online younger ones like Marigold, would only see it the same way.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rodin

> I have to admit, I have always thought of answering someone else's phone - especially without their express request to do so - to be a minor taboo. To my mind, it being Claire's 'phone would _increase_ the anxiety if it were to do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> One wonders why they didn't just use discord or similar voicechat. It's familiar to them both and reminiscent of the streaming-environment that they're used to, maybe that would make them more comfortable? 
> 
> I think "it's a business call so it has to be by 'phone" is mostly just a "how do you do, fellow children?" moment from Jeph - HE grew up using 'phones 'formally' and is just making things difficult for himself by assuming that other people, including perpetually-online younger ones like Marigold, would only see it the same way.


Heck, I work in a call center and the primary way we are reached is via Teams calling.  The phone number is a backup.

As someone with phone anxiety (yes, despite my job) touching anyone other than a family member's phone would be a major taboo and I probably wouldn't answer even a family member's phone unless I knew they were expecting a call.  I would pick up the phone and try to bring it to them or let the phone ring through and go find them to say they missed a call.  Answering the phone blindly ended when I ditched landlines.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> I'm confused by today's comic.  I assume that's supposed to be Claire's mother, since that's who is being discussed.  
> 
> It doesn't look like her _at all_.  In fact, it looks like Claire from a few years ago.
> 
> Just compare the characters from the last time we saw them with today's comic:  https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4681
> 
> I've mostly given up complaining about the art, but this is just ridiculous.


Yeah, me too. I missed yesrerdays Comic and actually wondered why Claire Was streaming now too and why Marigold didnt recognize her.

----------


## Vinyadan

The little lines beneath the eyes look more like "I'm entering the abyss of anguish and madness" than "I'm somewhat older than the rest of the cast".

Actually, it reminds me of the first time Marten and Claire had sex, he also had those lines because he had been dealing with Faye's alcoholic breakdown.

----------


## Ionathus

At this point, expecting Jeph to draw people who are older than 30 as *actually* older than 30 is a lost cause. The number of times I've seen Marten's mom and thought "that's a 28-year-old with a skunk stripe" is uncountable. 

Other than that, this arc is fun! I'm really, really enjoying the slice-of-life nature of this and Marigold's social awkwardness is very funny to me. 

Anything to get a break from the latest Whatever Social Issue Jeph Wants To Explore But With Robots arc.

----------


## Morquard

> I have to admit, I have always thought of answering someone else's phone - especially without their express request to do so - to be a minor taboo. To my mind, it being Claire's 'phone would _increase_ the anxiety if it were to do anything.
> 
> One wonders why they didn't just use discord or similar voicechat. It's familiar to them both and reminiscent of the streaming-environment that they're used to, maybe that would make them more comfortable? 
> 
> I think "it's a business call so it has to be by 'phone" is mostly just a "how do you do, fellow children?" moment from Jeph - HE grew up using 'phones 'formally' and is just making things difficult for himself by assuming that other people, including perpetually-online younger ones like Marigold, would only see it the same way.


Oh I agree with both parts. I wouldn't answer someone's phone - maybe my mom's if I see it's my brother or something, but that's it, and only because I know she's ok with it. I wouldn't be ok with her answering my phone. However maybe that is something those two had an unspoken or spoken rule about, and she's been doing it for years. Quite possible that during Claire's transition she had been "screening" phone calls for her daughter to make sure it was not some transphobic rant or something (with her permission of course).

And yes, I was wondering the same thing about "why not discord?"

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I feel like, at this point, expecting Jeph to draw people who are older than 30 as *actually* older than 30 is a lost cause. The number of times I've seen Marten's mom and thought "that's a 28-year-old with a skunk stripe" is uncountable.


Aurelia is her daughter's sister, no argument, and that is jarring. 

In the case of Veronica, Jim Bean, Henry, and Maurice, I think there is a caveat. I think these characters are specifically coded as being young-old, aging-gracefully, or whatever you want to call it. Aging is a little different than my parent or certainly my grandparents era (when whiskey and cigarettes were considered healthfood and sunscreen was for newborns and lifeguards :Small Tongue: ). We have celebrities like Paul Rudd who could be mistaken for a 30-something but who is in actuality older than Errol Flynn when he died (looking like a wrinkled leather strap that had alternately been soaked in brine and left to weather on a brickyard parking lot). Exactly how you are supposed to represent that, especially in a comic strip, is a nontrivial task.

Marten's mom is a 'your mom is hot' type character (enough for it to be intimidating for Dora, bitd). Jim was supposed to be youthful enough of a parent that it wasn't too sketchy for him to date twenty-whoknows Dora that one time. Henry is supposed to be 50-something, and the one with actual full grey hair, but also coded as a hip gay nightclub owner. Maurice isn't given a clear age, but is a gold instructor as a side gig (so I don't know, active?). I think they are all supposed to me 'middle aged, but wearing it well.' Emmett's mom doesn't seem to be introduced as a similar type, and, in the few times we've seen her, looks a lot more 45-going-on-60.

----------


## Willie the Duck

New comic. 
Okay, with Marigold this makes sense, but didn't Aurelia invite her daughter's suitor, whom Aurelia had never previously met, over for pancakes?

----------


## Radar

> New comic. 
> Okay, with Marigold this makes sense, but didn't Aurelia invite her daughter's suitor, whom Aurelia had never previously met, over for pancakes?


Inviting a friend of your daughter and inviting a very famous internet celebrity might be somewhat different I guess.

----------


## Traab

> New comic. 
> Okay, with Marigold this makes sense, but didn't Aurelia invite her daughter's suitor, whom Aurelia had never previously met, over for pancakes?


Its the change of venue. Think of it like this. You are at work and you chat and laugh with your work friends and everything is fine. Then one day you get invited to come over for a barbeque at their house. Suddenly the context of the friendship has changed, its DIFFERENT hanging out outside of work. I dont get anxiety on the level of these characters, but even I admit that id feel a bit anxious for the first visit. Its the same here. Internet anonymous friends are easy to chat with. Suddenly getting together irl? Thats a change and it brings up all sorts of things to worry about.

----------


## Wraith

> Inviting a friend of your daughter and inviting a very famous internet celebrity might be somewhat different I guess.


Where does "Mid-crisis AI who has stalked you, trespassed on your property, and made weird references to your dog and your secret identity" fall on that scale, I wonder? She seemed okay with that.  :Small Tongue: 

I get it. It's - perhaps unconsciously - a power thing. Aurelia was okay with inviting Marten because he was her daughter's crush, another kid about whom she had second-hand knowledge of being 'a nice person'. She's Claire's mom and has authority over 'kids' inside her own house.

But Marigold is a stranger from the internet, and 'we live nearby to each other' isn't much of a reassurance that she isn't also a crazed axe-murderer. Similarly, Marigold is a richer, more popular, "more professional" streamer than Aurelia - it's intimidating to have someone who is potentially "better" (note the use of inverted commas to indicate a perception, rather than a reality) than you in your house, because you don't have the same sort of authority over them as your kid's boyfriend.

As for Marigold, she has even less to go on. She's a twenty-something introvert who just agreed to meet a stranger off the internet in the stranger's house, and the only other thing that she knows for certain is that MommyMilkers has some kind of interest in a weirdly fetishistic pastime. Not to kink-shame or anything, but if its the only thing you know for certain about someone, it could be interpreted as a red flag?
She could be going to meet Buffalo Bill with a voice-modulator, for all she knows. Her nervousness is entirely justified, even before Aurelia started claiming that she has minor mind-control abilities.  :Small Tongue: 

I'm making this up, but I don't think it's THAT much of a stretch. Aurelia invites people over that she's sure of or has someone who can vouch for them, and she doesn't yet have that of Marigold. Yay is a bit of an outlier, but let's say they LOOK like a kid and that athleisurewear is inherently non-threatening and I think it still works...  :Small Smile:

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Inviting a friend of your daughter and inviting a very famous internet celebrity might be somewhat different I guess.





> Its the change of venue. Think of it like this. You are at work and you chat and laugh with your work friends and everything is fine. Then one day you get invited to come over for a barbeque at their house. Suddenly the context of the friendship has changed, its DIFFERENT hanging out outside of work. I dont get anxiety on the level of these characters, but even I admit that id feel a bit anxious for the first visit. Its the same here. Internet anonymous friends are easy to chat with. Suddenly getting together irl? Thats a change and it brings up all sorts of things to worry about.


Looks like it is a bit of both. Half _'Oprah* is stopping by for tea,'_ and half, _'Johnson and Anderson from work are swinging by, and will find out my work persona is all a façade.'_ Seems like this is actually pretty on-brand -- When she became an empty-nester, Aurelia kinda-sorta slid into being 'awesome**' without realizing it. Also on brand that Clinton does recognize this (as it frustrated him in earlier plots), and kinda personal growth on his part that this he just calmly explains to her the thing in her blindspot. 
*This is the closest I can get to a modern reference. Do universally-known celebrities even exist anymore?
**This is the sober guy who manages young adults talking, but blazing up and hooking up with significantly younger people isn't my idea of awesome, but I recognize that that's what Jeph is coding this as.

----------


## Traab

At least clinton has personal experience dealing with this as he went from creepy semi stalker boy to oddly cool and attractive looking after his whole thing with emily.

----------


## Cikomyr2

Its these kind of moments when

- i saw it coming
- im fine with it anyway

----------


## MoonCat

Honestly, I quite like this set-up where they converge on one another at the coffee shop. I'm expecting they'll give each other some comforting advice before the dramatic irony is resolved.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

This ain't gonna work like on TV. It's too obvious. That machine is not gonna be sufficient.

----------


## Squire Doodad

> As the actual person behind the MommyMilkers persona. This is a weird step in making it "real".


I would like to take a second and point out that you have said this sentence without a whit of irony and it is vaguely amusing

That said, while I am not following this comic, Aurelia does look like "Claire in 4 years and/or with a recent panic attack" as opposed to "middle aged woman with a college graduate child".

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Yeah, I figured the mean bean machine couldn't stop this inevitability.

----------


## Wraith

So... Claire's job is just to stand at the till, take orders, and shout them down the line to Hannelore/Dora? She doesn't even make the drink herself? It's not like tea should be beyond even a complete newbie. Hopefully.

And this is after spending X amount of time fiddle-farting around with her 'phone offscreen while 'at work'? I know it was stressed that Dorsa wasn't doing Marten a favour by giving his girlfriend a non-job out of pity, but WOW I wish my time working retail were even half that laid-back!  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Sometimes it's not super busy at a place. Even coffee shops.

----------


## Yuki Akuma

> So... Claire's job is just to stand at the till, take orders, and shout them down the line to Hannelore/Dora? She doesn't even make the drink herself? It's not like tea should be beyond even a complete newbie. Hopefully.
> 
> And this is after spending X amount of time fiddle-farting around with her 'phone offscreen while 'at work'? I know it was stressed that Dorsa wasn't doing Marten a favour by giving his girlfriend a non-job out of pity, but WOW I wish my time working retail were even half that laid-back!


This is in fact how it works when a coffee shop has two people working behind the counter and it's not super busy. You've never worked in one, I'm guessing?

In an hour or two they'll switch places so it's Hannelore taking the orders and Claire making them. Or possibly one of them will be cleaning up while the other handles the entire ordering process.

I presume Hannelore does most of the cleaning since she's really good at it.

----------


## Wraith

> This is in fact how it works when a coffee shop has two people working behind the counter and it's not super busy. You've never worked in one, I'm guessing?


Specifically in a coffee shop, no; in customer service, behind a counter, serving foodstuff to people, I have. Maybe it's just a different ethic, but its really weird to me for a customer to ask one person for service, and for that person not to serve them - otherwise someone is taking orders one after the other (the "easy" part), while the poor sod at the other end is preparing and bagging stuff frantically and unable to keep up. 

Even the coffee shops that I go to, on the rare occasion that I use them, the barista serving me will take my order and then prepare it, going round-robin with the other baristas who are doing the same thing to make sure that one order gets finished before piling up another.

Then again, it was also very normal for me to be serving customers and for a colleague to be stood 5 feet away having an unrelated chat with their friend, not at all unlike Hannelore and Marigold. Claire isn't usually passive-aggressive, but a similar tiny hint of "hey, stop screwing around and do your job" wouldn't be out of place where I worked....  :Small Tongue:

----------


## The Glyphstone

Though for all we know, its in their training. Terrible service is part of Coffee of Doom's branding and always has been.

----------


## Rodin

I was at a Starbucks where this happened literally an hour ago.  One person handling the drive through orders and working the till, the other person making drinks.  It's also a regular occurrence at other coffee shops I frequent - especially if you are with a group.  Barista #1 takes the orders, passes on a couple of drinks to Barista #2 while they sort out any food and payment, then once the customer no longer needs direct service they'll go and make any extra drinks.  In busy Starbucks locations they will often have someone specifically manning the till with a multi-person staff focusing on making drinks.

Also keep in mind that it's almost certainly not just Claire and Hannelore there - Penelope, Cossette, Emily, and possibly Dora will also be there "just off panel" like the gag we've seen previously.

----------


## DavidSh

I thought it was a bit more sanitary for one person to be handling the money, while another person handles the food & drink preparation.  That seems to be a common recommendation.

And Aurelia was ranked #516 in female baby names in 2021 by the US Social Security Administration.  Claire was #59. Clinton was #915 among male baby names.  Neither Marigold nor Hannelore was in the top 1000 of female baby names.

----------


## Gnoman

2021 babies aren't ordering coffee. You'd have to work out the set for 1970-2007 or so to get a worthwhile answer.


Though in this case, it isn't that Marigold thinks "Aurelia" is a strange name, just that she suspects that this is the Aurelia she's just exchanged contact info with.

----------


## DavidSh

> 2021 babies aren't ordering coffee. You'd have to work out the set for 1970-2007 or so to get a worthwhile answer.


I was figuring that QC was set some time in the future, what with Station and all of the robots.  Is there any indication when?
And "Aurelia" was less common back then -- it doesn't show up on the top 1000 list at all until 2012.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I was figuring that QC was set some time in the future, what with Station and all of the robots.  Is there any indication when?
> And "Aurelia" was less common back then -- it doesn't show up on the top 1000 list at all until 2012.


In the beginning, the strip was pretty clearly current-time, as the music references were not-just-current, but with brand-new/up-and-coming bands being such in-comic. It quickly became similar to Marvel comics or the Simpsons, in that it had a sliding 'now,' in that the characters didn't age appreciably, but it stayed current in real-time references. Other than Marten having a walking, talking PC, there weren't many sci-fi elements in it. Those have been retroactively added as they've been introduced. Best guess is that the strip is either 'now*, but with...,' or an MST3K-ish 'Next Sunday, A.D.'
*Exception -- there does not seem to be any references to the Covid-19 pandemic.

----------


## Traab

One thing that wasnt brought up but would be an issue for most cashier type businesses. Generally speaking one person operates on cash register and is responsible for taking payments and giving change, because at the end of your shift you have to make sure everything adds up and if three people are all using the same register, it is a lot harder to identify who is screwing up at best, stealing at worst. Probably a less important issue here as its a small shop run by friends, not just random employees.

----------


## theangelJean

> One thing that wasnt brought up but would be an issue for most cashier type businesses. Generally speaking one person operates on cash register and is responsible for taking payments and giving change, because at the end of your shift you have to make sure everything adds up and if three people are all using the same register, it is a lot harder to identify who is screwing up at best, stealing at worst. Probably a less important issue here as its a small shop run by friends, not just random employees.


Not that I've worked this kind of customer service, but ... 1) as a customer, I see this happen all the time - multiple people working the one register, where the receipt comes out saying "you were served by X" implying that some kind of register sign-in was required. Quite often the name on the receipt matches the name-tag of a staff member who didn't serve me. So it looks like many businesses ignore this issue.
2) from what I read on Not Always Working, it quite often _is_ an issue.

----------


## Gez

So Aurelia repeatedly stressed how important it is to maintain anonymity, but her real first name is known enough that when she is recognized, her first thought is "must be a random fan" and not "must be the person I just told my name to, who actually lives in the same town".

----------


## Cikomyr2

> So Aurelia repeatedly stressed how important it is to maintain anonymity, but her real first name is known enough that when she is recognized, her first thought is "must be a random fan" and not "must be the person I just told my name to, who actually lives in the same town".


She's a bit slow on the uptake in this situation, thats all.

I think her worries are more of a Claire -style anxiety where she gets caught in her thoughts and then spirals into a self-feeding worries and concerns. She has a better handle on it than Claire though, since she has developped the instinct to just jump in these situations (her 20-something lovers, her dog, her pot, her channel)

----------


## Wraith

Ironically, sending a code to "BurgerOni's 'phone" will not prove that Marigold is BurgerOni, only that she was the person who Aurelia spoke with earlier.

If Marigold is someone _pretending to be BurgerOni from the very beginning_, all she's doing is deepening the illusion because she's assuming that the number belongs to BurgerOni, so if Random Internet Stalker answers the 'phone, then it must be her! 

Next up, Marigold asks for Amazon vouchers, as was her plan all along when she first started streaming.....

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> So Aurelia repeatedly stressed how important it is to maintain anonymity, but her real first name is known enough that when she is recognized, her first thought is "must be a random fan" and not "must be the person I just told my name to, who actually lives in the same town".


If you look back a couple comics, Aurelia mistakenly thinks that it was her voice that's recognized. She doesn't realize it's her name.

----------


## Mechalich

Apparently Aurelia, in addition to her many other talents, is also a crossfit Mom. Not really a surprise exactly, but I'm starting to wonder if this woman ever sleeps.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I like these two. They're best friends now.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Apparently Aurelia, in addition to her many other talents, is also a crossfit Mom. Not really a surprise exactly, but I'm starting to wonder if this woman ever sleeps.


She wouldn't need to mellow out at 4:20 each day if it weren't for all the uppers she takes the rest of the time.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Ionathus

> Ironically, sending a code to "BurgerOni's 'phone" will not prove that Marigold is BurgerOni, only that she was the person who Aurelia spoke with earlier.
> 
> If Marigold is someone _pretending to be BurgerOni from the very beginning_, all she's doing is deepening the illusion because she's assuming that the number belongs to BurgerOni, so if Random Internet Stalker answers the 'phone, then it must be her! 
> 
> Next up, Marigold asks for Amazon vouchers, as was her plan all along when she first started streaming.....


I have never in my life seen somebody put an apostrophe at the start of "phone." Thank you for this brief, astonishing glimpse into your world.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Is it just the art shift distortion again, or is Aurelia shrinking? She's the same height as Marigold, who's never been portrayed as particularly tall.

----------


## Keltest

> Is it just the art shift distortion again, or is Aurelia shrinking? She's the same height as Marigold, who's never been portrayed as particularly tall.


A few pages ago she was taller than Marigold, so I THINK whats happening here is that she's hunched over a little bit to look Marigold in the eye. Or Marigold found a box.

----------


## Wraith

> I have never in my life seen somebody put an apostrophe at the start of "phone." Thank you for this brief, astonishing glimpse into your world.


It's a holdover from the days when one had to specify between a _tele_phone and a _cell_phone. I'm aware that I don't need to do it, and it's not even just 'a British thing' any more, but I'm old and don't like change.  :Small Tongue:  :Small Wink: 

In an unrelated subject, I was previously complaining that no one was selling anyone a coffee in a coffee shop - having seen Aurelia's behavious just by standing in the room, I rescind my request that someone give her caffeine, for all our safety.

----------


## Radar

> In an unrelated subject, I was previously complaining that no one was selling anyone a coffee in a coffee shop - having seen Aurelia's behavious just by standing in the room, I rescind my request that someone give her caffeine, for all our safety.


I agree. She would be better off getting one of those tees Bubbles orders to mellow out.

----------


## SaintRidley

I initially misread that as "cat milk" rather than "oat milk" and was really confused about why and how Marigold would opt for cat milk.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I initially misread that as "cat milk" rather than "oat milk" and was really confused about why and how Marigold would opt for cat milk.


Well, she's doing pretty nicely for herself, cash-wise. Cats are small, so it'd be pretty inefficient to milk them and do all the stuff that makes milk safe(ish) to drink, which I assume would make it very expensive. Maybe ordering cat milk would be her way of subtly flexing her money? I mean, I can't see Marigold actually doing that, but the mechanics of it are easy enough to sort out.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Far as today's strip goes, this "meme rot" is absolutely a thing and it makes normal communication impossible sometimes. Like, I don't care what face some character from some sitcom made 20 years ago, I asked you a question, could you please answer it like a human being? That and just saying "mood" to everything like I'm supposed to parse what that means. Aurelia is excellent for not succumbing.

----------


## Gez

> Well, she's doing pretty nicely for herself, cash-wise. Cats are small, so it'd be pretty inefficient to milk them and do all the stuff that makes milk safe(ish) to drink, which I assume would make it very expensive. Maybe ordering cat milk would be her way of subtly flexing her money? I mean, I can't see Marigold actually doing that, but the mechanics of it are easy enough to sort out.


I suppose if I saw "cat milk" in a shop I'd assume it's milk for cats, rather than milk from cats. That certainly seems like something that'd be a lot more likely to actually exist without being excessively weird.




> Far as today's strip goes, this "meme rot" is absolutely a thing and it makes normal communication impossible sometimes. Like, I don't care what face some character from some sitcom made 20 years ago, I asked you a question, could you please answer it like a human being? That and just saying "mood" to everything like I'm supposed to parse what that means. Aurelia is excellent for not succumbing.


pog based lol

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I suppose if I saw "cat milk" in a shop I'd assume it's milk for cats, rather than milk from cats. That certainly seems like something that'd be a lot more likely to actually exist without being excessively weird.


I have friends with sickly cats that give them cat milk (marketed as such), and it is indeed milk intended for cats, not produced by cats.

----------


## DavidSh

> Far as today's strip goes, this "meme rot" is absolutely a thing and it makes normal communication impossible sometimes. Like, I don't care what face some character from some sitcom made 20 years ago, I asked you a question, could you please answer it like a human being?


AOL. *
Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. **

---
* "I agree" -- taken from common Usenet postings of America OnLine customers.
** General reference to _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ episode "Darmok", where the Tamarians appear to speak exclusively in literary references, such as "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

----------


## tomandtish

> Well, she's doing pretty nicely for herself, cash-wise. Cats are small, so it'd be pretty inefficient to milk them and do all the stuff that makes milk safe(ish) to drink, which I assume would make it very expensive. Maybe ordering cat milk would be her way of subtly flexing her money? I mean, I can't see Marigold actually doing that, but the mechanics of it are easy enough to sort out.


Man, I feel sorry for anyone who has to milk a cat. Stitches galore!

----------


## Wraith

To be fair, the dangers of minion-meme abuse cannot be overstated. Although I still think that Aurelia knows way too much zoomer/internet lingo for someone whose sole reason for leaving the house today was to go and learn zoomer/internet lingo and then specifically didn't. Jeph forgetting his characters' motivations is one thing, but this way brought up ~5 minutes ago in-universe!




> AOL.
> Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.


To this day, I remain the only person I know of who actually owned a physical copy of _Zero Wing_. That's the 'All Your Bases Are Belong To Us' game, for the record - I was gamer brain BEFORE it was a thing  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Radar

> Man, I feel sorry for anyone who has to milk a cat. Stitches galore!


That's why you need milk from GMO goats to fashion yourself a spider silk suit or at least long gloves.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Far as today's strip goes, this "meme rot" is absolutely a thing and it makes normal communication impossible sometimes. Like, I don't care what face some character from some sitcom made 20 years ago, I asked you a question, could you please answer it like a human being? That and just saying "mood" to everything like I'm supposed to parse what that means. Aurelia is excellent for not succumbing.


If I could answer a question like a human being I would actually have a life and not live on the internet like some gremlin witch with a keyboard who's more comfortable moving 3D avatars around than she is taking a single photo of herself in decent lighting.

If you can't handle me at my "hyperfixating on replying to things with 10-second GIF loops of scenes from ancient cartoons before mentioning that I had a crush on some anime woman," you don't deserve me at my... uh... actually the same thing. It's Transformers trivia and anime nonsense all the way down. Occasionally I talk about ex-girlfriends.

That being said, I wish Aurelia was my mom.

----------


## Traab

> If I could answer a question like a human being I would actually have a life and not live on the internet like some gremlin witch with a keyboard who's more comfortable moving 3D avatars around than she is taking a single photo of herself in decent lighting.
> 
> If you can't handle me at my "hyperfixating on replying to things with 10-second GIF loops of scenes from ancient cartoons before mentioning that I had a crush on some anime woman," you don't deserve me at my... uh... actually the same thing. It's Transformers trivia and anime nonsense all the way down. Occasionally I talk about ex-girlfriends.
> 
> That being said, I wish Aurelia was my mom.


Screaming woman "Meme rot!" Sassy cat "pictographic communication!"

----------


## Delicious Taffy

*.gif of that little buck-toothed girl in a vehicle who's looking around confused*

----------


## Radar

> Screaming woman "Meme rot!" Sassy cat "pictographic communication!"


Why not both?  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## DaveOTN

> A few pages ago she was taller than Marigold, so I THINK whats happening here is that she's hunched over a little bit to look Marigold in the eye. Or Marigold found a box.


Today she definitely appears shorter than Marigold, although I suppose she could be standing back farther than I realize like some sort of Lord of the Rings-style forced perspective trick. 

I do agree the age of the characters seems to be shifting Simpsons-style; Marigold is now comfortable with Zoomer slang despite presumably also being in her early/mid-twenties back in 2006 or so.

I'm actually enjoying this arc so far despite the nitpicking. As long as we stay away from the logistics of how these two are actually wildly successful streamers, their interactions are fun to watch.

----------


## Wraith

I like it when Marigold gets to be the Straight Man of the scene. It's fun when she's like: "I'm a barely-reformed basement dwelling, nigh-terminal internet addict, but even I know that this is weird".

----------


## Morquard

I have a feeling when Marigold returns home, Dale and May have been busy coming up with like the perfect strategy to prepare Marigold for her meeting because she was somewhat freaking out before, and she'll just go "Oh that? Don't worry, I ran into her at the coffeeshop and we talked the whole time. She's really cool and has a dog"

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> I have a feeling when Marigold returns home, Dale and May have been busy coming up with like the perfect strategy to prepare Marigold for her meeting because she was somewhat freaking out before, and she'll just go "Oh that? Don't worry, I ran into her at the coffeeshop and we talked the whole time. She's really cool and has a dog"


Instead it turned out she texted Dale pretty early on so they wouldn't worry. Marigold is more capable than a lot of people (including Marigold) give her credit for.

----------


## VoxRationis

Well, that doesn't sound fun for anybody.

----------


## Traab

Mom voice is different from dommy mommy voice, so I understand the issue.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Morquard

> Instead it turned out she texted Dale pretty early on so they wouldn't worry. Marigold is more capable than a lot of people (including Marigold) give her credit for.


Yes I stand corrected. Also it was less a dig at Marigold and more at Dale and May being unnecessarily worried.

However why does Aurelia now think Dale owes Marigold an apology? He just said that he would rather not meet Aurelia in person, for a pretty valid reason if you ask me, and then May started teasing him about it and he got defensive.

----------


## DavidSh

> However why does Aurelia now think Dale owes Marigold an apology?


Probably for the incident with the fluid up Marigold's nose.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> However why does Aurelia now think Dale owes Marigold an apology? He just said that he would rather not meet Aurelia in person, for a pretty valid reason if you ask me, and then May started teasing him about it and he got defensive.


The implication of Aurelia last strip discussing making her paramour lose turgor and then Marigold discuss something going up her nose is that this was Dale's... emissions. Mind you, bedroom activity calamities aren't really one or the other participant's fault, but you tend to still say sorry when you do the thing that causes your partner discomfort (and for all we know, Dale did, but Aurelia doesn't either, something that would get straightened out with Marigold's next statement were there not this interruption with the actual plot of the day). 

Re: May -- May was in the wrong there. May is coded as being crass and insensitive. We've seen her slowly mellow in that behavior, but I don't think she's supposed to be becoming a toothless crass individual (Pintsize seems to be capturing that role, for the time being).

----------


## Wraith

I read that as harmless teasing, on Aurelia's part. They were JUST through hearing an anecdote about Marigold getting something up her nose, then the 'phone rang, so Aurelia's reaction being "Is that him? Better make sure he's sorry!" is a reasonable in-joke just between the two of them, while Dale can't actually hear her.

My only complaint - and its very, very minor - is that I don't feel like we've had enough build up for Marigold to be telling such sexual anecdotes to someone she met for the first time only 20 minutes ago. She's introverted, struggles to meet new people, and was red-faced embarrassed when she was at yoga and her closest, bestest friend just ripped a fart. Going from that to "Band Camp" stories with a near-stranger feels like I've missed a step or two where they actually became friends, or something?

----------


## Traab

> I read that as harmless teasing, on Aurelia's part. They were JUST through hearing an anecdote about Marigold getting something up her nose, then the 'phone rang, so Aurelia's reaction being "Is that him? Better make sure he's sorry!" is a reasonable in-joke just between the two of them, while Dale can't actually hear her.
> 
> My only complaint - and its very, very minor - is that I don't feel like we've had enough build up for Marigold to be telling such sexual anecdotes to someone she met for the first time only 20 minutes ago. She's introverted, struggles to meet new people, and was red-faced embarrassed when she was at yoga and her closest, bestest friend just ripped a fart. Going from that to "Band Camp" stories with a near-stranger feels like I've missed a step or two where they actually became friends, or something?


To be fair, mommy milker shared her story first. Its an odd social convention that when one side shares a story, you often share a similar one as well when possible. Normally it might be something like silly childhood adventures, funny workplace stories, but I suppose sexual experiences gone weird works as well.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I haven't watched many Vtubers, and the ones I've seen typically just put a .png up if they have a co-host present. Aren't there practical concerns about Marigold not bringing her setup with her, or should we just assume that a QC gaming rig is advanced enough to just import her avatar and hope Aurelia has an extra mic?

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> I haven't watched many Vtubers, and the ones I've seen typically just put a .png up if they have a co-host present. Aren't there practical concerns about Marigold not bringing her setup with her, or should we just assume that a QC gaming rig is advanced enough to just import her avatar and hope Aurelia has an extra mic?


If Aurelia's system could handle putting up animated avatars for both Clinton and Claire on basically a few minutes' notice, we should assume that this technology is advanced enough beyond real-world limitations that Marigold not having her rig is not a realistic and practical concern. In real life this would actually be a not only reasonable but pretty significant question, but again, in real life Aurelia wouldn't be able to give her children bespoke cow-themed models without prior notice.

Like, being able to custom-build an avatar or use one via procedural generation is a pretty big lift. Usually these avatars take a lot of time and effort to make.

----------


## Keltest

Based on the struggles for my own Vtuber friends when they were getting set up, Marigold is the one who would have to struggle here. Typically if streamers do a collab they each still have their own streams up and just use a little image file to represent when the other is talking (if they even go that far), and streaming equipment frequently isnt very portable. Although I guess since they have actual AIs and such, having a laptop and webcam setup thats just as good as a proper 2-3 screen desktop tower isnt actually that far out of the realm of possibility.

Its probably an accident, but a V-tuber being able to just casually move their rig around with minimal issues is probably actually a logical consequence of the world they live in.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Fair enough. I'd sorta forgotten about Claire and Clinton getting custom avatars at a moment's notice.

----------


## Wraith

Marigold could have her avatar/streaming software saved to the Cloud. In theory, all she'd need to do is download them, install them onto Aurelia's computer, and run them through a separate webcam - or as Clinton did, through the camera in a 'phone. It might be a bit more janky than usual, but she's notoriously computer savvy so could probably sort it out.

I just had to make that up though, its not indicated by the story. Similarly, WHY she would have her "secret identity" saved online rather than locally where she could be confident of its security, is another question entirely. Or why she would feel safe about installing it on a stranger's machine. 

Any way you look at it there's a lot being skipped to make this work "somehow", when we already had a perfectly good "we've discussed it in a call and will meet up later" premise that fell apart for no particular reason. It's like Jeph contrived this situation to make less sense than when it started out.

----------


## Keltest

> Marigold could have her avatar/streaming software saved to the Cloud. In theory, all she'd need to do is download them, install them onto Aurelia's computer, and run them through a separate webcam - or as Clinton did, through the camera in a 'phone. It might be a bit more janky than usual, but she's notoriously computer savvy so could probably sort it out.
> 
> I just had to make that up though, its not indicated by the story. Similarly, WHY she would have her "secret identity" saved online rather than locally where she could be confident of its security, is another question entirely. Or why she would feel safe about installing it on a stranger's machine. 
> 
> Any way you look at it there's a lot being skipped to make this work "somehow", when we already had a perfectly good "we've discussed it in a call and will meet up later" premise that fell apart for no particular reason. It's like Jeph contrived this situation to make less sense than when it started out.


At some level Marigold already has her identity saved online. Whatever streaming service she uses is linked to her finance management service, and they both definitely know her real identity in a way that could theoretically be linked to her vtuber by a hacker. Having a cloud backup of her data isn't that implausible.

----------


## SaintRidley

I'm with Dale. This is everything I ever dreamed it could be.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I'm with Marigold on this one, why does Aurelia have that open? Also why does she have it in general? Also also, I vaguely recall Claire considering selling feet pics at some point, so that's an interesting connection. Also also also, is that fanart or a feature of her avatar, and also(x4) does this mean both Aurelia and Marigold have interactive avatars with collision physics if it's a feature? I have many questions, and I'm also (x5 combo) with May in that last panel. As a bonus 6th also, I'm a little surprised she didn't just go with hooves.

If nothing else, this is definitely an interesting strip.

----------


## Radar

> I'm with Marigold on this one, why does Aurelia have that open? Also why does she have it in general? Also also, I vaguely recall Claire considering selling feet pics at some point, so that's an interesting connection. Also also also, is that fanart or a feature of her avatar, and also(x4) does this mean both Aurelia and Marigold have interactive avatars with collision physics if it's a feature? I have many questions, and I'm also (x5 combo) with May in that last panel. As a bonus 6th also, I'm a little surprised she didn't just go with hooves.
> 
> If nothing else, this is definitely an interesting strip.


It's definitely some fanart:
a) different drawing style
b) you can clearly see part of the video feed around the picture.

----------


## Wraith

The joke continues to be "Aurelia doesn't know what she's doing, somehow".

Even though she has managed to gather 50k+ subscribers...
Even though she likely dropped anything between $800-$3000 on her vtuber avatar...
Even though she has a setup that can handle a game, streaming software and two vtuber avatars at the same time (NOT a small accomplishment)...
Even though she has actual mind-controlling mom-vibes and is fully aware of them...

...She doesn't know which hotkey starts the camera (that she already used for both Clinton and Claire's appearances).

I *liked* it when Aurelia was cool. She played bass, and had hot boytoys on call, and was laid back and clever despite both her kids being neurotic messes all the time. I don't understand why Jeph has to make her a dumbass at random intervals, and apparently contradicting the other things we know about her.

----------


## Keltest

> The joke continues to be "Aurelia doesn't know what she's doing, somehow".
> 
> Even though she has managed to gather 50k+ subscribers...
> Even though she likely dropped anything between $800-$3000 on her vtuber avatar...
> Even though she has a setup that can handle a game, streaming software and two vtuber avatars at the same time (NOT a small accomplishment)...
> Even though she has actual mind-controlling mom-vibes and is fully aware of them...
> 
> ...She doesn't know which hotkey starts the camera (that she already used for both Clinton and Claire's appearances).
> 
> I *liked* it when Aurelia was cool. She played bass, and had hot boytoys on call, and was laid back and clever despite both her kids being neurotic messes all the time. I don't understand why Jeph has to make her a dumbass at random intervals, and apparently contradicting the other things we know about her.


I've known actual, real life professional streamers who will set up their hotkeys for something and then immediately fumble it up. Its really not that implausible.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I've known actual, real life professional streamers who will set up their hotkeys for something and then immediately fumble it up. Its really not that implausible.


If anything, making it part of her routine makes it more likely for her to fumble on occasion, especially if she's excited. I've also seen plenty of little flubs like this during streams. Well, not exactly like it, but y'know

----------


## Willie the Duck

She's had active extra characters on her stream all of twice before, and we already know she's been nervous about this whole encounter. This doesn't stike me as notably unrealistic. How many people over the past two-and-change years have been on Zoom/Teams/Dou calls when someone who was presenting alt-tabbed to the wrong window (hopefully not showing anything situationally inappropriate)? That said, maybe once again I'm just more tolerant of a comics-medium sitcom doing sitcom-normal things like people screwing up when it would be funny for them to do so (regardless of supposed talent).

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> The joke continues to be "Aurelia doesn't know what she's doing, somehow".


I mean, it seems more like the joke is that Aurelia made a mistake in the heat of the moment and it was at least mildly embarrassing for her and Marigold, which is on brand for both of them. Aurelia is very smart and capable in a lot of ways, but she does get flustered and lose her composure depending on the circumstances, and when she hadn't even planned to meet Marigold yet (she went to CoD out of anxiety about same) it's totally plausible that she might make a minor mistake when trying to do something new.




> I *liked* it when Aurelia was cool. She played bass, and had hot boytoys on call, and was laid back and clever despite both her kids being neurotic messes all the time. I don't understand why Jeph has to make her a dumbass at random intervals, and apparently contradicting the other things we know about her.


She still seems cool to me. She still plays bass and has hot boytoys and is clever and all of that. She's just not a flawless superwoman, and the things which fluster or confuse her are consistent across her appearances and different from other members of the cast. I don't see this as contradicting anything about her, I see this as just a reminder that Aurelia is capable of accidentally hitting the wrong button.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I'm beginning to think ol' Jephy-boy has some particular interests. Hey, it's his webcomic.

More seriously, there's definitely a dissonance in their vibes, but I've seen that work just fine before. Once they pick something to play/do, they'll probably settle into a dynamic pretty fast and build from there. Or they'll spend the entire stream faffing about and wind up not actually doing much, which will somehow wind up being immensely popular regardless. Collabs are funny that way.

----------


## Eldan

Butts disease has been known about for a while, yeah. Jeph isn't even subtle about it.

----------


## Rodin

I'm still so far down the levels of disbelief hole that no light is reaching from the surface.

I've never bought that "too shy to enter a bar" Marigold would become a streamer.

I've never bought that she would be a V-Tuber either.

I _especially_ never bought that she would be willing to play porn games on her stream.

I never bought that she would become hugely successful - a streamer I watch regularly answered a question about becoming a successful streamer with "You've got a better chance of becoming an actor or a musician".

I've never bought that Aurelia could be doing her stream without knowing the sort of audience she was attracting.  Half the time she seems to know, the other half she's clueless.  Which is it?

I don't buy that Aurelia's stream is popular enough that a collab between the two would be exciting or hypeworthy.

I don't particularly buy that the two streams share an audience, or that the streamers would even be aware of each other on a professional level.

I didn't buy that Aurelia would be super flustered about meeting Marigold.

I don't buy that Aurelia would be unaware of innuendo, especially given the type of crowd her stream attracts.

And I super duper special don't buy that a bit of innuendo would go viral.  Worse things than that are said on streams every second and this wouldn't raise a blip.

-------

Can we _please_ stop with the VTuber stuff?  He's yanking characters around and re-writing them to force them into a mold to tell a storyline that doesn't make sense in a field that Jeph seems to have even less of a clue about than I do (and I'm an old fart when it comes to this stuff).  Every new comic I have a refrain of Morbo from Futurama saying "X DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!"

----------


## Wraith

> I don't particularly buy that the two streams share an audience, or that the streamers would even be aware of each other on a professional level.


This one kind of makes sense. I have a very, VERY limited experience of vtubers, but from what I have seen their platform is incredibly incestuous even if you don't take into account networks, wikis, and collab-groups with a shared agent or sponsor.

They're both presenting as cis female, they're both American, and they're both independently 'internet famous' above a certain level. Streamers build collabs from WAY less common ground, and them being in a niche community seems like enough of a handwave.

As for everything else... Yeah, pretty much. This is what the comic is now - it's not been about indie rock loving 20-somethings getting into weird situations for about 2000 strips, and it's not going back.

Although I have to admit, the Giga-Chad-Cow face in today's strip is both overwhelmingly horrific, and yet absolutely perfect. Jeph deserves credit for really capturing the degeneracy of Youtube Thumbnail Face, which is separate from but as similarly untreatable as Butts Disease.

----------


## LeSwordfish

I don't in my heart believe this is the case, but I choose to believe that this entire storyline is the result of Jeph getting the number of Marigold's subscribers wrong and then refusing to do anything but double down on it. Making one of your characters secretly Pewdiepie so as not to admit you mixed up viewers and subscribers.

----------


## Mechalich

> This one kind of makes sense. I have a very, VERY limited experience of vtubers, but from what I have seen their platform is incredibly incestuous even if you don't take into account networks, wikis, and collab-groups with a shared agent or sponsor.


I think this is mostly derived from the audience end. The vtuber audience is very niche, but also very committed, so among the people who follow _any_ vtubers the proportion that follows _a metric f***ton_ of vtubers is quite high. There are actually a lot of markets like this, and some of them are quite big. For example, cruises. The number of people with any interest in cruises is fairly small, but among the cruise-interested the number of people who only do cruise vacations is quite high. 




> They're both presenting as cis female, they're both American, and they're both independently 'internet famous' above a certain level. Streamers build collabs from WAY less common ground, and them being in a niche community seems like enough of a handwave.


The biggest reason for them to collab is that they live in the same town, which instantly trivializes a lot of the logistical details of doing something like this. I think this subplot would have made more sense if their identities had been revealed to each other first and then they moved forward with the idea of collaborating. For example, imagine if Victoria appeared on Aurelia's stream (I will grant Marten's comment in the final panel is indeed sage wisdom), and then Marigold idly asked Marten 'so how was your Mom's flight to meet Mommymilkers,' Marten foolishly blurting something like 'no flight, she lives within walking distance,' and going from there.

Two successful streamers in the same small Massachusetts town is a massive coincidence, and while that's perfectly reasonable thing to happen in a sitcom-ified world, it's also something you can build a joke around.

----------


## Wraith

I'd like to say that I completely agree with you LeSwordfish, but it's the most convoluted ret-con he could have gone for, and it's taken far more work than simply correcting. It it wasn't deliberate, a more simple fix would have been something like:

Aurelia: "Hey, look! I just got my 26,000th subscriber!"
Anyone: "Twenty-six THOUSAND subscribers!? Assuming you're paid half of the $5 subscription, you make nearly $63,000 per month from this!?"
Aurelia: "WHAT? Heavens no! Sorry, I meant... followers? Is that the right word? I'm still learning the terminology, as I have repeatedly demonstrated over the last few dozen strips."
Anyone: *exasperated anime face*

That's two panels, the third could be one of those extra-wide ones with a punchline about how unlikely it would be for a naïve middle-aged person to ever make it that big in such a niche, and yet highly saturated, market.  :Small Tongue: 




> The biggest reason for them to collab is that they live in the same town, which instantly trivializes a lot of the logistical details of doing something like this.


It was the other way around, wasn't it? They were organising a collab, and THEN found out that they can practically see each others' houses. I assume that before this phone call, they were planning on... whatever it's called where you combine a video call on stream and have both avatars appear at the same time.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I don't in my heart believe this is the case, but I choose to believe that this entire storyline is the result of Jeph getting the number of Marigold's subscribers wrong and then refusing to do anything but double down on it. Making one of your characters secretly Pewdiepie so as not to admit you mixed up viewers and subscribers.


I don't think it has anything to do with 'admitting' anything. I think he just made the error, decided it would be fun or funny, and rolled with it. 

I do not love this plot arc, but I do like that Jeph is playing around with new ideas. No one benefits from the strip becoming another _Dilbert_ or _Beetle Bailey_ (or insert other iconic example of strip in infinite stagnation). Hanners gets a personality re-write, retroactively develops highly improbable backstory and side-drama and it turns out great. Marigold gets a personality re-write*, develops highly improbably side-drama and it turns out less than great.
_*and, to be fair, Marigold always had pervy and desire-to-share traits, just hidden under extreme insecurity and shyness. If getting a boyfriend and having a security blanket of pseudonym&avatar-gated anonymity let her control the later and allow the former to flourish, it's not the most far-fetched thing in the world._

----------


## Rodin

> The biggest reason for them to collab is that they live in the same town, which instantly trivializes a lot of the logistical details of doing something like this. I think this subplot would have made more sense if their identities had been revealed to each other first and then they moved forward with the idea of collaborating. For example, imagine if Victoria appeared on Aurelia's stream (I will grant Marten's comment in the final panel is indeed sage wisdom), and then Marigold idly asked Marten 'so how was your Mom's flight to meet Mommymilkers,' Marten foolishly blurting something like 'no flight, she lives within walking distance,' and going from there.
> 
> Two successful streamers in the same small Massachusetts town is a massive coincidence, and while that's perfectly reasonable thing to happen in a sitcom-ified world, it's also something you can build a joke around.


Thats the other bit thats bugged me since the start of this storyline.  Not them being in the same town - thats standard sitcom stuff.

Its the whole superhero secret identity business with streamers.  If you look up most successful streamers above a certain popularity level (well below the supposed success level of Marigold) you can find their real name.  Its not a secret, theyre not worried about obsessed fans.  Ive seen them make appearances on late night talk shows with their real name (MitchFlowerPower went on Colbert).

Its not the big secret the comic presumes.  And even if they dont publicize their nameits STILL not something they hide from friends and family.  Its a job!  The way they tiptoe around it is ridiculous and its highly improbable word would not have spread amongst the close circle of friends.

----------


## Keltest

> Thats the other bit thats bugged me since the start of this storyline.  Not them being in the same town - thats standard sitcom stuff.
> 
> Its the whole superhero secret identity business with streamers.  If you look up most successful streamers above a certain popularity level (well below the supposed success level of Marigold) you can find their real name.  Its not a secret, theyre not worried about obsessed fans.  Ive seen them make appearances on late night talk shows with their real name (MitchFlowerPower went on Colbert).
> 
> Its not the big secret the comic presumes.  And even if they dont publicize their nameits STILL not something they hide from friends and family.  Its a job!  The way they tiptoe around it is ridiculous and its highly improbable word would not have spread amongst the close circle of friends.


Marigold is super shy and somewhat afraid of judgement. I think its in-character for her to want to keep it private. Aurelia meanwhile doesnt seem to be concerned with proactively keeping it secret as such, she just isnt advertising her identity at all. When she thought somebody figured her out, her reaction was "wow, cool, a fan!" not "Uh oh, I've been made! To the bunker!"

----------


## Mechalich

> Its the whole superhero secret identity business with streamers.  If you look up most successful streamers above a certain popularity level (well below the supposed success level of Marigold) you can find their real name.  Its not a secret, theyre not worried about obsessed fans.  Ive seen them make appearances on late night talk shows with their real name (MitchFlowerPower went on Colbert).


Jeph referenced streamers Ouro Kronii and Nanashi Mumei in the comic. Those two streamers, like others contracted through the Japanese conglomerate Hololive, are cagey about their actual identities. This, however, seems to be a specifically Hololive thing, possibly because as contracted streamers Hololive owns the identities, not the actresses/actors who play them and could hypothetically replace the actual people behind the vtuber identities at any time if they wished. I don't actually know (you'd probably need to be an expert in Japanese contract law to figure out the particulars), but the circumstances of vtubers who contract through Hololive (or a similar agency) are clearly different from that of those who operate independently - at a guess it's probably similar to the differences between Japanese musicians who work for corporate-backed idol groups like AKB48 versus those who operate independently. Jeph, however, seems to have completely missed that distinction.

----------


## Shadow of the Sun

> Thats the other bit thats bugged me since the start of this storyline.  Not them being in the same town - thats standard sitcom stuff.
> 
> Its the whole superhero secret identity business with streamers.  If you look up most successful streamers above a certain popularity level (well below the supposed success level of Marigold) you can find their real name.  Its not a secret, theyre not worried about obsessed fans.  Ive seen them make appearances on late night talk shows with their real name (MitchFlowerPower went on Colbert).
> 
> Its not the big secret the comic presumes.  And even if they dont publicize their nameits STILL not something they hide from friends and family.  Its a job!  The way they tiptoe around it is ridiculous and its highly improbable word would not have spread amongst the close circle of friends.


Vtubers are a little different to "normal" streamers.  It's generally considered bad form to look into the actual identity of a given vtuber, even if they're reasonable open about it, and some agencies literally do have NDAs about a given character's identity.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Are they ever gonna play a video game? This is why I don't tune in to any of the streamers I like until at least an hour after they've started.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> I don't think it has anything to do with 'admitting' anything. I think he just made the error, decided it would be fun or funny, and rolled with it.


I'm not really convinced it was an error in the first place. Whether intentional or not, QC has long since moved from being a slice-of-life comic to being a light science fiction comic, complete with fictional colleges, AIs integrated into regular life, at least one character who is a cyborg, and... two characters who happen to be huge Vtubers more or less on accident.

Of course, I think that's part of the reason why some people aren't totally on board with this particular storyline. One of my favorite writing professors called it the "aliens playing poker" problem. To wit: If you have two characters who are both not human playing poker, no one is going to notice how weird or unrealistic or strange the alien physiologies are because we don't really have any frame of reference for it. But if they're playing poker wrong, readers are going to pick up on that and nitpick the heck out of it, because even if it's 200 years in the future and poker will logically have evolved significantly beyond its modern state, poker is a _real thing_ with an _understandable reference point._

The AI stuff is easy to accept as "it's all made up" because we have no actual human-level AIs to use as a baseline. But two super-popular streamers living in the same town without knowing it and feeling like they're way more successful than they "should" be? We have real numbers and sources to base that on, that's easier to scrutinize.

(Personally I'm just lukewarm on the story. I wouldn't say I'm not enjoying it, exactly, it's just not focusing on characters or a plotline that I'm particularly engaged with at the moment. But not all of them are going to be, and hey, it's nice to have a story about Marigold that isn't focused on her relationship or a story about Aurelia that's unrelated to her children.)

----------


## Drascin

> Vtubers are a little different to "normal" streamers.  It's generally considered bad form to look into the actual identity of a given vtuber, even if they're reasonable open about it, and some agencies literally do have NDAs about a given character's identity.


Yes, while you often CAN find the real identities of vtubers if you really care about it, it's typically considered gauche to bring it up unless they do so themselves openly (such as kson). The whole idea of vtubers is that it provides a certain layer of removal between the specific person and the character. 

Like, you probably could find who, say, Pikamee is, but also most fans not only don't do so, they'd consider you telling them to be kind of rude. 

As for hard to believe... Kronii (who Jeph referenced in a previous strip) once got trending on twitter just for saying "flower" in a silly voice. The stuff that becomes viral in vtuber fandoms is almost as inscrutable as what becomes viral on tiktok fandoms.

----------


## Mechalich

> I'm not really convinced it was an error in the first place. Whether intentional or not, QC has long since moved from being a slice-of-life comic to being a light science fiction comic, complete with fictional colleges, AIs integrated into regular life, at least one character who is a cyborg, and... two characters who happen to be huge Vtubers more or less on accident.


Jeph has made numerous factual errors of this kind in the past. It is quite clear by this point that he does not perform even fairly basic googling regarding factual background points that would arise in the comic. For example, in the very last plot he kept having Nelson refer to an 'NLRB violation,' which isn't actually a thing. The NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) is an agency of the government, the NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) is the actual law governing the rights of employees. 

The other part of this is that it doesn't actually benefit the story for Marigold and Aurelia to become unexpectedly wealthy via streaming. Marigold becoming a streamer and making roughly the same amount of money she made before with massively greater job satisfaction (a much more plausible level of popularity) would be a far better outcome for the comic. Likewise, Aurelia becoming independently wealthy actively imperils an existing storyline: Claire's job search.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Aurelia becoming independently wealthy actively imperils an existing storyline: Claire's job search.


In what way? I don't see the connection. Claire lives with Martin, works at the coffee place, and is generally entirely independent from her mom nowadays.

----------


## Mechalich

> In what way? I don't see the connection. Claire lives with Martin, works at the coffee place, and is generally entirely independent from her mom nowadays.


A massive and sudden increase in family wealth inherently decreases the urgency associated with income-related needs. Aurelia having a giant pile of money means that while Claire may still want to work, she no longer needs to. That's a very important distinction. In particular, it presents an excuse for her to hold out for a job in a place she likes rather than latching on to the first available offer.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> A massive and sudden increase in family wealth inherently decreases the urgency associated with income-related needs. Aurelia having a giant pile of money means that while Claire may still want to work, she no longer needs to. That's a very important distinction. In particular, it presents an excuse for her to hold out for a job in a place she likes rather than latching on to the first available offer.


This is assuming Claire would even accept the free ride now that she's gotten out on her own, I think. And even if she did, that's a good thing, financially, to not have to latch onto the very first dead-end job she lays eyes on out of desperation.

----------


## Gnoman

Indeed, having her mother just blunder into a pile of cash while she's working her tail off to forge a career is likely to add fuel to the fire for Claire.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Jeph has made numerous factual errors of this kind in the past. It is quite clear by this point that he does not perform even fairly basic googling regarding factual background points that would arise in the comic. For example, in the very last plot he kept having Nelson refer to an 'NLRB violation,' which isn't actually a thing. The NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) is an agency of the government, the NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) is the actual law governing the rights of employees.


Wow. Next you're going to tell me that this comic isn't a good instruction manual for running a coffee shop, handling a college library, or living with heightened anxiety.

For the record, at least in my experience, it's not uncommon for people to refer to violations by the agency which governs them even if that's not technically the law under consideration. But considering this is a comic that had a pizza-delivery superheroine and action movie setpieces just happening around the protagonists back in 2006, my expectation is and has always been that "amusing slice of life" tops "realistic and well-researched."




> The other part of this is that it doesn't actually benefit the story for Marigold and Aurelia to become unexpectedly wealthy via streaming. Marigold becoming a streamer and making roughly the same amount of money she made before with massively greater job satisfaction (a much more plausible level of popularity) would be a far better outcome for the comic. Likewise, Aurelia becoming independently wealthy actively imperils an existing storyline: Claire's job search.


Marigold's change in occupation led directly to May getting a new job and Dale leaving CoD, which cleared space for Claire to step into that role which also directly ties into _her_ ongoing story. Aurelia's streaming has not materially changed anything going on with Claire or Clinton at this point - there's no indication that her streaming job is _why_ she is able to afford her house or offer support to her children or anything else. It's just another element of her character.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Okay, it's not a video game but at least they're doing something.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I'm not really convinced it was an error in the first place.


Other than other people think it is and I don't know (or have strong opinions on the subject), my reason hinges on the 'Marigold had to sell that rare anime porn DVD to get money for May's fundraiser despite (us finding out after the fact) having crazy good income at the time was because she locked her account and getting that resolved was harder than selling a DVD and getting the cash from that transaction in-hand' micro-plot feels a lot like an author saving throw. 




> Wow. Next you're going to tell me that this comic isn't a good instruction manual for running a coffee shop, handling a college library, or living with heightened anxiety.
> 
> For the record, at least in my experience, it's not uncommon for people to refer to violations by the agency which governs them even if that's not technically the law under consideration. But considering this is a comic that had a pizza-delivery superheroine and action movie setpieces just happening around the protagonists back in 2006, my expectation is and has always been that "amusing slice of life" tops "realistic and well-researched."
> 
> Marigold's change in occupation led directly to May getting a new job and Dale leaving CoD, which cleared space for Claire to step into that role which also directly ties into _her_ ongoing story. Aurelia's streaming has not materially changed anything going on with Claire or Clinton at this point - there's no indication that her streaming job is _why_ she is able to afford her house or offer support to her children or anything else. It's just another element of her character.


My threshold/criteria tends to hew to 'if I saw this show up on a tv sitcom from the 70s-90s, would it grate on me as a failure of basic knowledge?' And also 'if I didn't have issues with this strip for other reasons (whatever they may be), would this be notable?' This doesn't strike me as different than (ex.) the _M*A*S*H_ crew getting hold of a movie that was released domestically less than 3 weeks before the armistice, and I don't think, if QC wasn't in the 'I wish it was still the show I loved 10 years ago' zone, then no Jeph's lack of perfect knowledge regarding being a streamer would not be a notable flaw of any kind. 




> Okay, it's not a video game but at least they're doing something.


I don't think we were going to see them play a game in-frame. There are so many webcomics out there already about actually playing computer games already. This was going to be about streaming like _Coach_ was about coaching football or the like -- the stuff around the edges of the actual thing.

----------


## Wraith

There are some small touches about this comic that I like. That both her hands and book that MM is 'holding' are clearly just MS Paint scrawls superimposed over the avatar to make it look like she's holding a book, are both very cute and absolutely something I've seen a streamer do for a joke. Like the youtube faces from the other day, its a clever and fun observation of the platform.

Everything else, though?  :Small Confused:  ...I miss Emily.  And Steve. And Penelope. And Pizza Girl.

----------


## Traab

Im actually finding this fairly entertaining. It makes for a nice change of pace from the calm cool collected near perfect relationship nonissues that have formed over most of the comic. Honestly, at this point only faye and bubbles seem to have a realistic chance for something terrible to happen between them.

----------


## otakuryoga

random thought hit me teh other day

instead of six degrees of Kevin Bacon this comic engages in two degrees of Martin
is there a single character that is more than two points away from him

----------


## Keltest

> random thought hit me teh other day
> 
> instead of six degrees of Kevin Bacon this comic engages in two degrees of Martin
> is there a single character that is more than two points away from him


Uhh... Renee maybe? Im not aware of Martin hanging out with Brun at all, and while he technically has seen Renee before I dont think they interact in any meaningful capacity that I can remember.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Uhh... Renee maybe? Im not aware of Martin hanging out with Brun at all, and while he technically has seen Renee before I dont think they interact in any meaningful capacity that I can remember.


Renee was a good friend of Padma, who dated Marten. Renee is also a good friend of Elliot, who has hung out with Marten. Elliot is also dating Clinton, whose sister (Claire) is dating Marten.

Renee works for Jim at the Secret Bakery. Jim is romantically linked to Marten's mother.

----------


## Wraith

> random thought hit me teh other day
> 
> instead of six degrees of Kevin Bacon this comic engages in two degrees of Martin
> is there a single character that is more than two points away from him


The longest I could come up with is Lemon - she is Melon's sister, who is friends with Roko, who helped out May,  who was sleeping with Sven, who is Dora's brother, who used to date Marten.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> The longest I could come up with is Lemon - she is Melon's sister, who is friends with Roko, who helped out May,  who was sleeping with Sven, who is Dora's brother, who used to date Marten.


There's a shorter chain for Lemon - Melon has been in Union Robotics multiple times being cared for by Faye, who is Marten's roommate.

----------


## Gez

> The longest I could come up with is Lemon - she is Melon's sister, who is friends with Roko, who helped out May,  who was sleeping with Sven, who is Dora's brother, who used to date Marten.


Yay's dogs or Nelson maybe.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Corpse Witch, maybe? Marten has only ever interacted with Bubbles in context with Faye, and Faye only knew CW though Bubbles. So Marten-Faye-Bubbles-CW?

----------


## halfeye

> Corpse Witch, maybe? Marten has only ever interacted with Bubbles in context with Faye, and Faye only knew CW though Bubbles. So Marten-Faye-Bubbles-CW?


I thought I remembered Faye directly interacting with CW?

----------


## The Glyphstone

They did talk face to face alone once. And actually now I remember CW was Fayes official employer, so thats still 2 steps to Marten.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Yay's dogs or Nelson maybe.


The best I can do with Nelson is that Nelson got a document from Hannelore's father, who met Marten. That's a pretty weak connection, but it's there. However, Nelson also works with Beepatrice, who has met Marten after she wandered home with Claire.

As for Yay's dogs, they haven't directly interacted with anyone other than Yay. But Yay has interacted several times with Faye, who is (as mentioned) Marten's roommate. So that's three degrees. Possibly three degrees is as far as we can get. (I also guess it depends on whether or not you consider pets to be characters in that regard.)

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Alright, this one's pretty funny. I appreciate Aurelia channeling her Embarrassing Mom Energy just to mess with Marigold.

----------


## Wraith

I'm warming to the idea that Aurelia has been trolling everyone about everything for the last ~year or so. She knows exactly what she's doing, she knows more zoomer slang than the rest of the cast combined, she directly commissions art from sexdrawer69, and she's enjoying watching others react.

It's like someone's Dad persistently referring to "Pokey-Mans". They KNOW the difference, but that's not the point.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Traab

The question I have is, why was marigold taken off guard by this? Is this not how mommy milkers does her show? Did she change her style just to troll burger oni?

----------


## Rodin

> The question I have is, why was marigold taken off guard by this? Is this not how mommy milkers does her show? Did she change her style just to troll burger oni?


This is the question Ive got right now.  The way the stream was explained earlier implied a wholesome stream that just happened to have a fetishistic avatar, and that most of the fans were there for a cozy time with a subset being umspicier.  Aurelia was implied to be mostly oblivious to the sex icon nature of her avatar.

Thats not what weve seen here, which is a borderline porn stream thats pushing the boundaries of whatever platform shes streaming on.  The tone is so dissonant that it seems impossible for Marigold to NOT know beforehand unless Aurelia has taken a deliberate right turn specifically for this collab stream.

----------


## Wraith

Given that Marigold had to ask "Is this a bit?" in reference to Aurelia's solid gold sex futon - _baring in mind that she is sitting next to Aurelia, who is obviously not sitting on a solid gold sex futon_ - I'm assuming that nothing in this stream was planned and Marigold is as confused as we are.

I would predict that Marigold is about to have a stern talk with Aurelia, who admits that she was acting up to make sure that she "fit in" with BurgerOni's viewers, got carried away, and it got weirder than she intended. I can see that fitting in. Aurelia has a reputation as a Cool Mom to maintain, but doesn't really know how to get there - inanity ensures.

I'm no longer going to try and actively predict this arc any more, though. I've tried that, and then we ended up with quad-boobed vtuber cows, so I accept now that it's a futile endeavour.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Idk, this one is just cute. And yes, a house is a very good something she could use her newfound money on. It's a good investment and she'd be responsible doing it. They could have a lot more room that way, too.

----------


## Traab

No reason not to. She makes so much money she has to hire an accountant and a manager to deal with it all. So she can clearly afford it. Though too be fair, a vr streaming career may not feel like a very stable source of income. Ive seen it happen a lot with various youtubers who last quite a few years, are well off, even selling merch and such, then they lose the motivation for doing the same thing over and over and are unable to pivot to something else that grabs them and their audience.

----------


## halfeye

> No reason not to. She makes so much money she has to hire an accountant and a manager to deal with it all. So she can clearly afford it. Though too be fair, a vr streaming career may not feel like a very stable source of income. Ive seen it happen a lot with various youtubers who last quite a few years, are well off, even selling merch and such, then they lose the motivation for doing the same thing over and over and are unable to pivot to something else that grabs them and their audience.


That would be a problem if she got a mortgage on a huge mansion, but if she paid cash she currently has then so long as she has enough left for living expenses, that should be okay.

----------


## Keltest

> That would be a problem if she got a mortgage on a huge mansion, but if she paid cash she currently has then so long as she has enough left for living expenses, that should be okay.


Well thats the rub isnt it? Even if she can afford a nice house, if her income dries up she may not be able to pay the property taxes and utilities on it.

You actually see stuff like this with, of all things, football players. Once they hit a certain age/level of wear on their bodies and they dont actively play anymore, they end up having to drop a lot of their luxuries because they cant afford the upkeep on them anymore and they didnt invest for a 50+ year retirement while they still had the money.

Marigold at least still has some marketable skills in terms of tech.

----------


## Traab

> Well thats the rub isnt it? Even if she can afford a nice house, if her income dries up she may not be able to pay the property taxes and utilities on it.
> 
> You actually see stuff like this with, of all things, football players. Once they hit a certain age/level of wear on their bodies and they dont actively play anymore, they end up having to drop a lot of their luxuries because they cant afford the upkeep on them anymore and they didnt invest for a 50+ year retirement while they still had the money.
> 
> Marigold at least still has some marketable skills in terms of tech.


Exactly this. Yeah she could probably outright pay off a new house, but property tax SUUUUUUCKS! And the bigger the property, the higher the amount you have to pay every year. Its like the lotto winners who buy a 200 million dollar mansion, then lose it next year because they cant afford to pay 2 million or more a year on taxes, let alone the rest of the upkeep on a property that size.

----------


## Mechalich

> Exactly this. Yeah she could probably outright pay off a new house, but property tax SUUUUUUCKS! And the bigger the property, the higher the amount you have to pay every year. Its like the lotto winners who buy a 200 million dollar mansion, then lose it next year because they cant afford to pay 2 million or more a year on taxes, let alone the rest of the upkeep on a property that size.


Property tax really isn't that much in most jurisdictions. The 2 million on a 200 million you just mentioned is a rate of 1%. That's nothing. At a more reasonable price point, the annual property tax bill on a home is likely equivalent to what 2-3 months of rent on that home would be. Yes, it is important to recognize that owning a home outright doesn't mean there are suddenly no costs, but those costs are comparatively low.

Now, there are exceptions, the big one being a situation where the value of the property increases drastically even though the actual property hasn't changed due to changes in land value and housing demand in the region. This is most notable in extremely high demand areas with limited stock, like NYC. This is not true of Northampton, MA with a declining population. Also, Northampton simply doesn't have any super high value properties available - a quick redfin search reveals the priciest place in the city is currently selling for 1.68 million.

----------


## Rodin

All of this assumes Marigold wants a mansion, which we still have no indication of.  She wants a house instead of a 2-bedroom apartment with a shared living space (so she has a bit less than a one bedroom apartment currently).

Something like this would probably be more up her alley.  House with room to have a dedicated gaming/streaming room and a good setup to have guests over, but not a mansion either.

Also, looking at those house prices makes me understand why the entire cast share apartments.  Jeebus.  There are vacant lots selling for nearly as much as I bought my house for 5 years ago.

----------


## Mechalich

> Something like this would probably be more up her alley.  House with room to have a dedicated gaming/streaming room and a good setup to have guests over, but not a mansion either.


That house is a bit far from town center. Marigold's ideal is actually probably right downtown, since she doesn't appear to drive well, ever. Like most of the cast she has a massively pro-pedestrian bias. But yes, there's a range of options suitable in a price range from roughly 350-800k, depending on how much space one wishes to allot to the AIs - if May and Momo get there own rooms that means a need for more house, whereas if they just charge slumped against the wall or something then you don't. Regardless, I was mostly trying to make the point that Northampton simply doesn't really have any homes for the modern super-rich. Most of its high-end luxury residences are restored Victorian mansions built in the 19th century. This makes sense because there really isn't a lot to draw modern wealth to a small city outside of commuting range from Boston and NYC - where all the money really is.

----------


## Willie the Duck

Yeah, okay, I could do a 'one of the gang buys a house' plotline. Those are alwaysusually interesting.

Doylistically, I think it could go a couple of ways. One would be rich Marigold decides she needs just the best house (to impress Aurelia, and then as just a mania) and needs to be talked down after she starts trying to buy up entire blocks near downtown to raze and turn into her dream house (because nothing on the market is right). Another would be standard travails of the house-hunt, where this one is perfect except the toilets are on the ceiling/there are ghosts in the basement/the neighbor is the guy who made that Burger Oni/MommyMilkers fanart, on to the next (I think we saw that with an apartment hunt for... one of the bakery cast). Another being the four of them each having different ideas about what a good house is, and the negotiations* and fallouts from that. Personally I am guessing #2, but #3 or something akin to it (the move creates interpersonal drama). #1 would be out of character with what we know of how Marigold has handled her success (exceedingly conservatively and afraid that it all might disappear tomorrow). 
*And sure, only Marigold has a true say in things, but let's say the walls continue to be too thin and Momo decides she's had enough listening to other-peoples-sexytimes, she could decide she doesn't want to move in. Instead she gets a closet apartment next to the fire station with a window overlooking where the hunky firefighters wash their firetrucks, and now Marigold fears she'll never see her again and will that sway her decision?

----------


## Traab

Renee and brun went apartment hunting.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Dora and Tai live in a house, don't they? I remember dora house/apartment hunting at one point where the landlady said a witch had cursed the building.

----------


## Wraith

It's going to be another "Jeph has a fun idea but puts absolutely no thought into it" plot, I think.

Hannelore is the daughter of two independently wealthy multimillionaires; she lives in the same sort of apartment as a perpetually-broke welder like Faye.

Sven is not a millionaire, but from what we've gathered about him he's making enough money and has so few requirements as he might as well be. He lives in a condo that boasts the nigh-unique luxury of "having an upstairs bedroom".

Aurelia is a divorcee who raised two kids alone, and apparently doesn't have a job (apart from the relatively very recent streaming). She lives in a nice 3-bedroom detached property out in the suburbs.

"House prices", "property taxes" and "long term investment" just aren't the type of thing that QC likes to deal with, except in fleeting references. I respect that - having bought a house I can say that it's very, very dull and incredibly tedious and wouldn't want to read a realistic version of it in a webcomic - but at the same time, I suspect that Jeph is avoiding it because he just doesn't know much about it and doesn't want another 'raisins' or 'emotional labour' moment.

----------


## Keltest

> It's going to be another "Jeph has a fun idea but puts absolutely no thought into it" plot, I think.
> 
> Hannelore is the daughter of two independently wealthy multimillionaires; she lives in the same sort of apartment as a perpetually-broke welder like Faye.
> 
> Sven is not a millionaire, but from what we've gathered about him he's making enough money and has so few requirements as he might as well be. He lives in a condo that boasts the nigh-unique luxury of "having an upstairs bedroom".
> 
> Aurelia is a divorcee who raised two kids alone, and apparently doesn't have a job (apart from the relatively very recent streaming). She lives in a nice 3-bedroom detached property out in the suburbs.
> 
> "House prices", "property taxes" and "long term investment" just aren't the type of thing that QC likes to deal with, except in fleeting references. I respect that - having bought a house I can say that it's very, very dull and incredibly tedious and wouldn't want to read a realistic version of it in a webcomic - but at the same time, I suspect that Jeph is avoiding it because he just doesn't know much about it and doesn't want another 'raisins' or 'emotional labour' moment.


Hasnt Jeph actually moved and bought/rented property before? I dont know his current living situation, but I seem to recall at least a couple times where he actually did look into some of that stuff.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I suspect that Jeph is avoiding it because he just doesn't know much about it and doesn't want another 'raisins' or 'emotional labour' moment.


I sometimes wonder if he knows/cares about the raisins thing, and how much it actually affects him personally that people cared so much what snacks Brun ate as a kid.

Which part was the "emotional labour" moment, again? It seems fresher in your mind than it is in mine, and I haven't got the fortitude to skim the archive for it.

----------


## VoxRationis

It seems odd seeing (here and elsewhere) the "gamer basement" being made into an aspiration, rather than something arranged out of necessity (largely because one's parents don't appreciate having a dining room table or living room television monopolized for long periods of time).

----------


## Mechalich

> Aurelia is a divorcee who raised two kids alone, and apparently doesn't have a job (apart from the relatively very recent streaming). She lives in a nice 3-bedroom detached property out in the suburbs.


Considering that Aurelia is attractive enough to easily acquire male companionship of buff boys half her age and the art seems to draw her aging backwards, my suspicion that she was _absolutely stunning_ in her twenties and that the unseen husband did something that made bank (I'm feeling lawyer, anyone else?) resulting in a very generous divorce settlement including, probably the house outright.




> "House prices", "property taxes" and "long term investment" just aren't the type of thing that QC likes to deal with, except in fleeting references. I respect that - having bought a house I can say that it's very, very dull and incredibly tedious and wouldn't want to read a realistic version of it in a webcomic - but at the same time, I suspect that Jeph is avoiding it because he just doesn't know much about it and doesn't want another 'raisins' or 'emotional labour' moment.


I would note that buying a house with cash is actually significantly less complicated than getting a mortgage, bizarre at that might sound, since many of the more complicated steps involving banks just disappear to be replaced with 'I need a cashier's check for $$XX, here's my two forms of ID' (which is actually a moment I'd really like to see in the comic, since doing that is absolutely as potent as it gets in terms of bringing home the impact of wealth).

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I sometimes wonder if he knows/cares about the raisins thing, and how much it actually affects him personally that people cared so much what snacks Brun ate as a kid.


We do know that he has reacted to some things (he made an 'enough already, I get it!' kind of remark about the overly cartoony *BLAM* when Faye's dad killed himself offscreen in a flashback, he cut his hand when he broke a glass in frustration with someone telling him he was making Marigold not-fat-enough). I believe Jeph knows about the two Reddits his comic has (one a hatewatch channel) and has maybe obliquely referenced a controversy or two (the kids watching the anime show). That one seems more like he treated it with a level of bemusement more than anything else. Whether he actually keeps up on the reddits and any controversies on a regular basis is unclear. 

It's gotta be hard to be a creator on the internet/in the internet era. It'd be hard to know if some reddit thread of some message board is representative of your wider audience. 




> Hasnt Jeph actually moved and bought/rented property before? I dont know his current living situation, but I seem to recall at least a couple times where he actually did look into some of that stuff.


I have to imagine that he has. He's forty-...one? two? He hasn't lived in the same place the whole time. I see no reason to believe Jeph doesn't know anything about it. 

Regarding the cast, Hanners lives in the same building as Faye for the same reason that in _Friends_ cook and waitress Monica and Rachel live in the same apartment building as Network Usage somethingsomething manager and freeloading actor Chandler and Joey -- it is convenient to the plot and creator and much of the audience don't care*. Plus maybe a house seems like too much space, responsibility, and potentially dirty surfaces for her comfort level (and she's trying to make it on her own salary). There was a strip where Sven thinks to himself "I should buy a house..." but never gets around to it. Mostly, though, the explanation that works for me is that these characters are perpetually ~23-28 -- that age range where many of them are still figuring out their adult trajectory, no one has kids, most of their friends don't have houses either, and there's just not a huge amount of social pressure saying that you're *supposed* to have a house by now. Until something like this comes along, I guess.

----------


## Rodin

I'm pretty sure Dora still lives in an apartment, it's just an apartment in Amherst rather than a local one.  They had to get her sofa up the stairs to much hilarity which furthers my thought that she's in an apartment building (as most people have their big sofas in the living room on the ground floor).

As to the likelihood of various characters having a house:

I bought my house at the age of 35.  It was my first house, and I only bought it after a massive change in circumstances that made it feasible/desirable.  If that change hadn't happened I would likely still be living in apartments.  There's no reason not to for a single person - the only reason I had considered a house previously was because I wanted a garden.

I work with a number of guys in their late 20s to early 30s who are apartment dwellers, including some who are roommates to save money just like in QC.  One guy is living with his parents ever since his girlfriend chucked him out.

Is it stereotypically sitcom?  Of course.  But sitcoms still got the idea from somewhere, and a bunch of (relatively) young people living in apartments when property is expensive is entirely plausible.  QC is actually a lot more believable than a show like Friends, where everybody had extremely roomy and expensive apartments in New York.  The apartments in QC have typically been shown to be one common area, and small kitchen, and a couple of smallish bedrooms with room for a bed and a maybe a computer.  The cast afford it by splitting the cost among 2-3 people.  The only big Friends style apartments belong to Sven and Yay, both of whom can afford it.

----------


## Wraith

> I sometimes wonder if he knows/cares about the raisins thing, and how much it actually affects him personally that people cared so much what snacks Brun ate as a kid.


Raisins is absolutely a meme and almost certainly not an actual thing that Jeph worries about. I was just using it as an example of something where a big chunk of fandom looked at it and went, "What? That doesn't work that way at all".

By Jeph's own admission, he doesn't follow any of the Reddits not does he accept criticism via twitter, which he has severely cut back on in the last few months. That being said, it's something of a noted coincidence just how often something will be mentioned in one of the Reddit threads about something being odd or unexplained, only for it to be referenced and handwaved away a couple of comics later, its suggested that he Jeph at least lurks a little.




> Which part was the "emotional labour" moment, again? It seems fresher in your mind than it is in mine, and I haven't got the fortitude to skim the archive for it.


One of the criticisms mentioned on the Reddit threads - I too don't care to comb through the archive for the exact comic, but it was where Marten was talking to Claire and admitted that he felt unsure - sad? - that his mother was "building a new family" with Jim and Sam, and he wasn't really a part of it. Claire's response was to tell Marten that if he wanted to be closer to his step-family, then he needed to invest more emotional labour into it.

What she meant was that Marten had to put time and effort into getting to know Jim and Sam, because they couldn't be expected to do all the socialising for him. But that's not what emotional labour is. Emotional labour is something like, when a waitress or an air stewardess has to smile and make nice with customers no matter how much of a jerk they're being; often unpaid, it's the "work" they have to do as part of their job that is emotionally taxing rather than physically or intellectually. Either Claire was insinuating that Marten had to perform as though he were happy and placate people he wanted to be around for no reward, or Jeph used the wrong phrase because... he picked up the cliff-notes from wikipedia, maybe? That's one theory, anyway.

----------


## Mechalich

> Is it stereotypically sitcom?  Of course.  But sitcoms still got the idea from somewhere, and a bunch of (relatively) young people living in apartments when property is expensive is entirely plausible.  QC is actually a lot more believable than a show like Friends, where everybody had extremely roomy and expensive apartments in New York.  The apartments in QC have typically been shown to be one common area, and small kitchen, and a couple of smallish bedrooms with room for a bed and a maybe a computer.  The cast afford it by splitting the cost among 2-3 people.  The only big Friends style apartments belong to Sven and Yay, both of whom can afford it.


Yeah, I actually give QC a lot of credit in this regard. Most of the cast do not or did not until recently have any sort of legitimate career, they were all underemployed 20-somethings. In which case it makes sense to avoid homeownership so as to be more readily able to relocate, something the comic has addressed. Also, Northampton is a relatively small city and the number of apartment buildings that are primarily used by townies (as opposed to college students) is liable to be fairly small, possibly even single digits. Having the characters live in such close proximity is relatively modest probability tweak. 

Now, at this point in the comic having one or more characters hit the point where they actually obtain a stable, reasonably well-paying career and chose to put down roots is quite reasonable, and buying a house (or a condo/townhome) is often part of that, since it's usually a good long term financial move even if you're happy living in an apartment. I'm actually hopeful for this subplot, despite disliking the road that brought the comic here severely.

----------


## Cikomyr2

This was a funny one

----------


## Cazero

> It seems odd seeing (here and elsewhere) the "gamer basement" being made into an aspiration, rather than something arranged out of necessity (largely because one's parents don't appreciate having a dining room table or living room television monopolized for long periods of time).


_Someone's_ never known the bliss of underground protection against the dreaded orb of desication that puts blinding lights on every reflective screen it touches.

----------


## Gnoman

> It seems odd seeing (here and elsewhere) the "gamer basement" being made into an aspiration, rather than something arranged out of necessity (largely because one's parents don't appreciate having a dining room table or living room television monopolized for long periods of time).


Having a space dedicated to a hobby is quite nice - it doesn't get in the way of your day-to-day life (such as having controllers or games taking up space in your main living spaces) but allows you to set things up in a comfortable and accessible way (such as having all your games on a nice shelf instead of sticking them in a shoebox under the TV or something). For hobbies where natural light is a detriment, a basement is a superb location (provided that it is suitably dry and furnished) because basements get little natural light by virtue of being underground. In a shared living space, it also tends to maximize the space between a potentially noisy activity and the other residents, who will be at least one floor above, possibly two, and thus less bothered by activity in sleep periods.

A lot of people I know have a game room or home theatre setup in the basement rather than the living room. Indeed, to a certain extent that's where the exiled-from-necessity version started - kids were told to go play in the basement rec room instead of the living room.

----------


## Eldan

Yeah... I'd love to have a livable cellar. Our current one is a shared room for three parties, with low ceilings, raw brick walls and gravel floor, that regularly gets flooded by groundwater. I used to live in a place where I could rent a cellar room, which I used mostly for mini painting and other hobby projects, and man was it ever nice to be able to go down there for a few hours in the summer. It's 35° now outside, I'm dying.

----------


## Wildstag

I dunno how much this forum pays attention to Jeph's twitter, but he posted this today, so tumultuous times ahead, by the sound of it.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I dunno how much this forum pays attention to Jeph's twitter, but he posted this today, so tumultuous times ahead, by the sound of it.


For those of us who can't open twitter on a work computer, can you give the 3-sentence version?

----------


## Kish

Jeph wants everyone to know that the forthcoming arc will "get wild" but he's not bringing the comic to an end.

----------


## Rodin

That's more concerning than anything.  I was down for a "Marigold buys a house" storyline, because however awful the story leading up to it was that sounds like a fun story to pursue.

This sounds like a more major world change.  Lessee....

Marigold wants to buy a house, but there's nowhere in Northampton that suits her needs.  So she's going to move away.

At the same time, Claire finally gets a job offer.  Claire and Marten move away.

At the same time, Dora and Tai get married.  Tai gets a good offer elsewhere, so Dora sells the shop and they move away.

Hannelore leaves again for...well, pretty much any reason under the sun.

With all of her friends gone, Faye engages in destructive behaviour, breaks up with Bubbles, and goes back to Georgia.

The rest of the comic turns to focus full-time on Roko's non-profit and fictional robot politics that are a thinly-veiled reference to real world issues.  Secondary protagonist becomes Renee, because why not?

--------

I don't think I would ever want him to do a "grand finale".  It's not that type of story.  Just say "life goes on" and that's it.  It's not like OOTS where we're all waiting with bated breath for the big conclusion.

----------


## geoduck

> That's more concerning than anything.  I was down for a "Marigold buys a house" storyline, because however awful the story leading up to it was that sounds like a fun story to pursue.
> 
> This sounds like a more major world change.  Lessee....
> 
> Marigold wants to buy a house, but there's nowhere in Northampton that suits her needs.  So she's going to move away.
> 
> At the same time, Claire finally gets a job offer.  Claire and Marten move away.
> 
> At the same time, Dora and Tai get married.  Tai gets a good offer elsewhere, so Dora sells the shop and they move away.
> ...


I'd vote for Claire and Marten leaving as being the most likely. (Not that I particularly agree or disagree with this idea.)

----------


## Mechalich

> I'd vote for Claire and Marten leaving as being the most likely. (Not that I particularly agree or disagree with this idea.)


I actually think Dora & Tai are more likely. Those two haven't appeared in the strip to do anything other than discuss their impending nuptials for probably over 1000 strips. They are primed to make an exit. Also, I think the elevation of Aurelia as a significant character (I do not think Jeph can help himself going back to the MommyMilkers well) makes Claire's retention more likely.

Also, if Tai leaves Claire can have her job, which is a nice little way to handle that issue and also might actually push Marten to move forward with his life. Further Jim can buyout Coffee of Doom from Dora, allowing for a condensation of the action to one location.

----------


## Traab

> I actually think Dora & Tai are more likely. Those two haven't appeared in the strip to do anything other than discuss their impending nuptials for probably over 1000 strips. They are primed to make an exit. Also, I think the elevation of Aurelia as a significant character (I do not think Jeph can help himself going back to the MommyMilkers well) makes Claire's retention more likely.
> 
> Also, if Tai leaves Claire can have her job, which is a nice little way to handle that issue and also might actually push Marten to move forward with his life. Further Jim can buyout Coffee of Doom from Dora, allowing for a condensation of the action to one location.


Honestly, at this point tai and dora leaving would mean almost nothing. They have been so detached from events we hardly remember them and havent impacted anything in im not sure how long. Im thinking bubbles faye drama is the biggest potential issue for major drama and bad things to happen. But even then it wouldnt really suggest the comic is ending. So my money is going to go with a marten/claire arc where it at least looks like moving away is on the table because he is the original character after all, having him gone would be like having garfield die. Sure Odie and nermal are there, but its not the same.

----------


## Kish

> Honestly, at this point tai and dora leaving would mean almost nothing. They have been so detached from events we hardly remember them


Speak for yourself.

----------


## Wraith

"It's been months...." (Referring to the MM420/BurgerOni stream and resulting youtube videos - it happened some time ago, apparently)

"So they actually met up..." (Referring to Aurelia meeting Marigold like he doesn't know the details?)

The time-skip is a little jarring, but not quite as much as the realisation that it sounds like Claire and Clinton haven't spoken to each other since the event, and are just now catching up about it months later.

...This isn't going to be a flash-back/exposition arc, is it? We jump ~3 months into the future and now Claire and Clinton spend the next week explaining how nice Dora/Tai's wedding was, and how Claire got offered her new job out of state and she's just now about to get on the bus to leave?

...I guess that'd be one way to avoid having to draw wedding dresses, a big venue, and a bunch of one-shot characters again while shaking up the status quo as was promised?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Cikomyr2

T-T-T-TIME JUMP

Tike to shake the status quo

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> The time-skip is a little jarring, but not quite as much as the realisation that it sounds like Claire and Clinton haven't spoken to each other since the event, and are just now catching up about it months later.


I took it less as "we haven't spoken since then" and more as "I never really talked about the fact that you were in the room where it happened, huh?" But both readings are valid until we know more.

----------


## Eldan

Have claire and Marigold really never met before?

----------


## Keltest

> Have claire and Marigold really never met before?


I dont know, but Claire is attempting to respect Marigold's privacy by not revealing her identity unless invited to. She was cagey with Martin too.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Oh, it's "been months", has it? That's one way not to show us the tedious process of buying a house or....I guess any of the other ongoing stories. Was anything else going on? I swear Pintsize was doing something with clothes and maybe something about Faye and Bubbles having mild tension? Wasn't Roko in the middle of some kinda lawsuit? Actually maybe it's best if I don't remember.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

So a comic where a week passing takes literal years IRL just skipped ahead a few months?  :Small Confused:

----------


## Radar

> So a comic where a week passing takes literal years IRL just skipped ahead a few months?


That's not unusual actually. Time in a webcomics is spent according to needs. Sometimes a single day will take years to publish even with a tight release schedule. A single action scene lasting 5 to 15 minutes will obviously take multiple pages. On the other hand, whole days, weeks or months do get skipped when there is nothing relevant to cover. There were surely many more timeskips even in QC just not as clearly stated as for sure the seasons did change at some points.

What is surprising though is that this timeskip came out of nowhere here as there were a lot of things going on right then and there. Typically timeskips would be used between arcs or something.

----------


## Wraith

> I took it less as "we haven't spoken since then" and more as "I never really talked about the fact that you were in the room where it happened, huh?" But both readings are valid until we know more.


That's fair. I still think it's kind of odd that exactly one interesting thing has happened, and that Claire and Clinton haven't discussed it except for waiting 'months' to bring it up as though it was yesterday.... But yeah. Tomorrow could show that Claire has been living abroad for 2 months after a sudden and unexpected job offer, and this is her first time back home in a while? 

I remain sceptical... But let no one say I'm not open minded about random swerves to peoples' lives at short notice.  :Small Tongue: 




> Have claire and Marigold really never met before?


They were at the Lakehouse party together. Marigold is the... third? Person that Claire has been shown serving coffee to, which led to Claire watching Marigold leave the shop with Aurelia after having it confirmed that she was Mom's vtubing buddy. But no, I don't think they have ever interacted directly, and socially.




> What is surprising though is that this timeskip came out of nowhere here as there were a lot of things going on right then and there. Typically timeskips would be used between arcs or something.


Jeph has even proven he can do it better, like that time when Faye was working at the fighting arena. Several months were covered in a single strip, and it was a perfectly good one that showed how things were happening, just nothing of note except for characters living their life for a while.

This is just... Kinda pointless? "Months later" and characters are still having the same conversations that just as reasonably could have taken place "the next day". What is the point of the timeskip, if it's only to avoid having to draw the wedding, or the house moving, or the things that we're about to have explained to us?

----------


## Morquard

Hadn't Aurelia mentioned she's been turned into a meme before or something? Maybe he's referring to that incident, and basically saying "OMG, not again! I'm still having the old stuff pop up and now this is gonna add on top?"

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Hadn't Aurelia mentioned she's been turned into a meme before or something? Maybe he's referring to that incident, and basically saying "OMG, not again! I'm still having the old stuff pop up and now this is gonna add on top?"


Doubtful? He specifically mentioned the eating ass comment as the thing he's still seeing about.

----------


## Mordokai

Whomever said it was Marten and Claire most likely to move away, you seem to be proven right.

----------


## DavidSh

Or the comic could relocate to PEI, where Claire further transforms into an Anne of Green Gables lookalike.

----------


## Morquard

> Doubtful? He specifically mentioned the eating ass comment as the thing he's still seeing about.


Hmm, good point. Yes seems here was a timeskip

----------


## Vinyadan

Damn, Clinton could plough a field with that chin.

----------


## Wraith

Question: Why do AIs need a physical library, let alone a super-advanced cube-shaped one? They have the entire internet inside their head, including every book ever printed, and more besides.

Similarly, why do AIs need a novice, human librarian to work at the library that they don't need? They have the entire internet inside their head, including floor-plan and a detailed instruction on the dewey decimal system.

I do approve of the hook-handed evil nemesis plan, though. That sounds like a wise career choice in today's market. Lots of fresh air, plenty of exercise, set your own hours, getting to meet lots of interesting people (albeit if only briefly....)




> Damn, Clinton could plough a field with that chin.


At least his nose hasn't turned semi-transparent so that you can see the rim of his glasses through them. Again.

----------


## Mechalich

> Question: Why do AIs need a physical library, let alone a super-advanced cube-shaped one? They have the entire internet inside their head, including every book ever printed, and more besides.


The boundary between 'library' and 'archival datacenter' may be a bit nebulous in this alternate future. It's possible that the AIs want some kind of specialized hard-linked archive in a single location, rather than networked across the planet, for various advanced programming and hardware reasons.




> Similarly, why do AIs need a novice, human librarian to work at the library that they don't need? They have the entire internet inside their head, including floor-plan and a detailed instruction on the dewey decimal system.


Maybe the AIs are developed a new archival data framework designed to have equal ease of use by both humans and AIs and they desire the perspective of a freshly minted librarian for this purpose?

This whole Cubetown thing also raises the question of whether or not Cubetown is considered part of Canada or is intended to be part of some sort of sovereign AI state. That's kind of important, for a bunch of reasons, but especially those involving Marten, since Marten can't move to Canada (or any other country really) to live with Claire unless they get married first.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Marten can't move to Canada (or any other country really) to live with Claire unless they get married first.


Unmarried people can't move in together in Canada?  That's strange.

----------


## geoduck

> Unmarried people can't move in together in Canada?  That's strange.


Pretty sure he can't _emigrate_ to Canada with no job of his own waiting for him. Living arrangements once there aren't an issue.

----------


## tyckspoon

> Question: Why do AIs need a physical library, let alone a super-advanced cube-shaped one? They have the entire internet inside their head, including every book ever printed, and more besides.
> 
> Similarly, why do AIs need a novice, human librarian to work at the library that they don't need? They have the entire internet inside their head, including floor-plan and a detailed instruction on the dewey decimal system.


The message Claire got looks like it's leading to another 'Who knows? They're WaAackY!' personality, so there probably is not actually a sensible reason why they invited Claire specifically. That is not the communication style of an individual that has sound business-related reasons to do things.

----------


## Eldan

> Unmarried people can't move in together in Canada?  That's strange.


He has no skills and no job waiting for him. Probably also no substantial savings. If he's married, he can emigrate as Claire's partner, but probably not if they are unmarried.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> He has no skills and no job waiting for him. Probably also no substantial savings. If he's married, he can emigrate as Claire's partner, but probably not if they are unmarried.


I sometimes forget that you can't really just move to another country on a whim like moving from state to state. It makes sense, though.

----------


## Morquard

> Pretty sure he can't _emigrate_ to Canada with no job of his own waiting for him. Living arrangements once there aren't an issue.


He works in a library too, so Claire could organize a job for him, carrying around files in the digital library or something.

----------


## Traab

It wouldnt be crazy if the floating cube or whatever it is also has a hardcopy library as backups or storing for historical purposes that requires a librarian to sort, record, and care for submissions. Honestly, it sounds like it could be a great job once the initial deluge of work is done. Mostly quiet work dusting shelves and recording whatever latest books were dropped off and storing them where they belong. Sometimes having to grab a specific tome as needed. As for the time skip, it may be jeph wanting to skip right to the wedding and house buying and other such parts because he had nothing else planned storywise to fill time before then. Or at least, skipping to a specific part of home buying and ignoring the open house vists, the paperwork for buying one, the banking involved (assuming she cant just cut a check herself) and is going right to the moving part of things and the house warming.

----------


## Vinyadan

Best AI in a library http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/21p41/

----------


## Wraith

> Maybe the AIs are developed a new archival data framework designed to have equal ease of use by both humans and AIs and they desire the perspective of a freshly minted librarian for this purpose?


Sounds like the sort of thing for which you'd want an experienced librarian who has been around a bit, seen a bunch of stuff, and can offer you expert advice on your practices by comparing them to the other ones that they have seen over a long illustrious career so as to refine and innovate your own procedures.




> The message Claire got looks like it's leading to another 'Who knows? They're WaAackY!' personality, so there probably is not actually a sensible reason why they invited Claire specifically. That is not the communication style of an individual that has sound business-related reasons to do things.


Ah, of course. Random Wacky Benefactor pisses good fortune upon the designated protagonist from the ether, just like Marigold's instant success, May's Elon-Musk-esque benefactor, and Aurelia's apparently pop-up fandom. Why let something as stupid as 'logic' or 'reasons' get in the way of a goo-... of a story?  :Small Tongue:  :Small Wink:

----------


## BRC

Eh, about 80% of AI stuff in QC is just "blue people who plug into walls"

We've seen a LOT of evidence that AI's get a lot of value from unnecessarily mimicking human culture and social experiences, even going to bars to drink "Robot Beers".  


Which is to say, a community full of AI's might value having a human librarian to give them the experience of "Going to a Library". They might enjoy the experience of perusing shelves, picking out a book based on the cover alone, asking a librarian for recommendations, ect. 

There may also be other humans there who value having access to a physical library instead of just pulling EBooks onto tablets, if only as a community space.

----------


## Wraith

Heh, so now I'm imagining that Claire thinks she is being interviewed to come to this high-tech super-library and put her degree to use, only to be offered the job of a renaissance faire actor "making it real" for the AI tourists.

Which, frankly, is a lot closer to using her degree than I got to using mine. I'm not bitter you're bitter.

----------


## Traab

> Eh, about 80% of AI stuff in QC is just "blue people who plug into walls"
> 
> We've seen a LOT of evidence that AI's get a lot of value from unnecessarily mimicking human culture and social experiences, even going to bars to drink "Robot Beers".  
> 
> 
> Which is to say, a community full of AI's might value having a human librarian to give them the experience of "Going to a Library". They might enjoy the experience of perusing shelves, picking out a book based on the cover alone, asking a librarian for recommendations, ect. 
> 
> There may also be other humans there who value having access to a physical library instead of just pulling EBooks onto tablets, if only as a community space.


That is a fair thought as well. I mean, if we can have robots sexually aroused by fresh bread, why not bibliophile robots who get all steamy and go fweet at the sight of shelf after shelf after SHELF of well organized BOOOOOKS AAAANH! Sorry... I dont know what came over me. :Small Big Grin:  But yeah seriously, it wouldnt surprise me if the novelty of physically holding the knowledge is something a number of AIs would find a positive experience.

----------


## Mechalich

> Sounds like the sort of thing for which you'd want an experienced librarian who has been around a bit, seen a bunch of stuff, and can offer you expert advice on your practices by comparing them to the other ones that they have seen over a long illustrious career so as to refine and innovate your own procedures.


You'd probably want both those things. Older scientists (and yes library science is a science) tend to be very set in their ways and attached to doing things a certain way. If you're dealing with a revolutionary new setup taking advice only from the old guard is a poor choice. 

Now Claire isn't exactly a great choice in this regard since she's hardly assertive or innovative. Tai - the woman who allowed part of the library to be turned into a rave that time - would make much more sense.

----------


## Mordokai

Is it weird that I couldn't put my fingers on what's "wrong" with Dora in todays comic until Jeph pointed it out for me?

----------


## Wraith

> You'd probably want both those things. Older scientists (and yes library science is a science) tend to be very set in their ways and attached to doing things a certain way. If you're dealing with a revolutionary new setup taking advice only from the old guard is a poor choice.


Eh, I suppose as a hand-wave it's fine. As a hiring intent, "We're new and progressive, so we want someone young and energetic to work for us!" is a perfectly plausible.

It's also wrong. We can all see how it's wrong, right? Stereotyping young and older people alike? But then it is something run by a QC-based AI, so "they're making a terrible mistake based on an incorrect assumption" isn't actually out of character...  :Small Tongue: 

Very good point about Tai, however. Almost like SHE could go to Cubeland to be the fun, hip and trendy librarian and have Dora open up a shop in Canada, just like they already discussed a few years ago, so that Claire can step up into Tai's role....

Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit. 

I'm going to pretend it's one of those "ask Dora what she would do, so that you know that the correct answer is to do the exact opposite" conversations.




> Is it weird that I couldn't put my fingers on what's "wrong" with Dora in todays comic until Jeph pointed it out for me?


That only 1/3 human beings have lips?  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit. 
> 
> I'm going to pretend it's one of those "ask Dora what she would do, so that you know that the correct answer is to do the exact opposite" conversations.


Yeah, it's not like Dora could have changed since then or learned from past experiences or anything. That would be crazy!

----------


## Wraith

Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?

Until today, when she's advising Claire to prioritize herself, and shuts down Clinton when he points out that there's plenty of time to discuss it. Not necessarily great indicators of improved empathy.

I'm NOT saying that Dora is a bad person, or that she doesn't have a modicum of a point, or that development couldn't have happened. I AM saying that we haven't seen much evidence if it has, and that its mostly moot because Claire needs to talk to exactly one person about it, and that is Marten.

Besides, we all know that Dora COULDN'T have made any significant personal changes anyway, since she hasn't been anywhere NEAR a yak or even a pitchfork.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Ionathus

> Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?
> 
> Until today, when she's advising Claire to prioritize herself,


Dora has messed up a lot and is not the most reasonable person in the cast by any metric. I still think this is a profoundly uncharitable read of the situation.

Claire's very shy and unwilling to speak up for herself or advocate for her own needs. Dora isn't encouraging her to freaking murder Marten and run away to Nova Scotia tomorrow: she's saying it's unhealthy to _outright reject_ any futures that require a compromise from your partner, even if they'd be a fantastic opportunity for you. It's not even about actually taking the job: it's about getting Claire to even _consider_ doing the right thing for her own needs if it came to that, or even just talk to her partner about the decision. 

I know people like this in real life, who are so terrified of imposing on anyone else that they rarely if ever actually do what's right for them. 




> and shuts down Clinton when he points out that there's plenty of time to discuss it. Not necessarily great indicators of improved empathy.


Oh, give me a break. They're both clearly reacting to him ending that otherwise reasonable thought with "she's gonna totally blow the interview." 

I legitimately can't understand how you'd interpret that as "hurry up and decide *right now*, without Marten's input, ignore everything Clinton says."




> Claire needs to talk to exactly one person about it, and that is Marten.


Claire is *bad* at talking to Marten about this stuff. And Marten's no champ at it either. Remember when she was freaking out about her exams and it took Pintsize smacking Marten with a novelty-size dildo to get him to wake the hell up and realize his girlfriend was trying to talk to him about important stuff? 

Yes, Marten is the main person she needs to talk to about this opportunity. But her prior difficulties in doing so mean that it makes sense she needs encouragement and guidance from _her current boss_ to psych herself up for that conversation. It is really weird to try spinning that totally normal interaction into being somehow about how terrible the advice-giver is at relationships.

----------


## Kish

> Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?


You do realize that even your incredibly negative reading of the second one absolutely requires that Dora went to therapy regularly for some time, right?

----------


## Keltest

> You do realize that even your incredibly negative reading of the second one absolutely requires that Dora went to therapy regularly for some time, right?


Does it? We know Dora was getting started on it, but I dont know that we ever actually got any confirmation that she committed to it being a regular thing. Just because you use your gym membership the first week of the new years doesnt mean you actually went long enough to get any benefit from it.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit.


That's not even close to what's going on in today's comic.

Claire is worried about the possibility that she'll get this job, Marten will move with her to stay with her in this new job, and he'll then be miserable and wish that he hadn't done so. She's not worried about transgressing his boundaries so much as she's worried about the fact that Marten doesn't actually know what's waiting if he moves to a different place and Claire doesn't know either. So she's painting a picture of catastrophe in her head in a situation that is not yet actually merited, and Dora is advocating for Claire that she shouldn't discard this entire opportunity _out of hand_ because she's worried about a hypothetical scenario in which things turn sour with Marten.

Marten's boundaries aren't being trampled on here; Claire is being told not to just discard the possibility when she's gotten an exciting new opportunity because it _could_ cause problems in her relationship. Because this is Claire and she has a tendency to jump ahead to worst-case scenarios pretty commonly. It's a regular and consistent thing for Claire even though she ought to know better by now.

Also, as someone who really doesn't much like how Dora and Marten's relationship ended, feels like it was really authorial fiat, and has never really felt like Dora and Tai were anything more than a mashed-together couple that didn't really make a whole lot of sense? No, Dora did not single-handedly torpedo her relationship with Marten. Yes, her insecurities and issues were definitely a big dang problem and led to the blow-up, but it was _Marten_ who escalated things and decided to make what was honestly a pretty minor thing into a wedge that ruined their relationship. It was _Marten_ who said that he was sick of her apologies. It was _Marten_ who ultimately kept treating Dora's biggest insecurity that he was only with her because he couldn't be with Faye as an "ugh, are you still on that?" instead of a serious problem.

Leaving aside the fact that both Dora and Marten have said multiple times that they are happier with their current partners than they were together and have moved on, repaired their friendship, and aren't bitter about the situation. Characterizing Dora eternally as the woman who ruined a good relationship for dumb reasons is ultimately missing the point of everyone's actions in context and kind of elides the fact that most of QC's cast is not terribly smart or emotionally stable. They're still getting there, it's a process, and Dora's not offering bad advice.

----------


## Mechalich

> Claire is worried about the possibility that she'll get this job, Marten will move with her to stay with her in this new job, and he'll then be miserable and wish that he hadn't done so. She's not worried about transgressing his boundaries so much as she's worried about the fact that Marten doesn't actually know what's waiting if he moves to a different place and Claire doesn't know either. So she's painting a picture of catastrophe in her head in a situation that is not yet actually merited, and Dora is advocating for Claire that she shouldn't discard this entire opportunity _out of hand_ because she's worried about a hypothetical scenario in which things turn sour with Marten.


Actually, considering that Claire's hypothetical job offer is onboard a floating AI-controlled colony (rogue state?) this is perhaps a more reasonable fear than it seems. The situation is considerably more exotic than 'library job in Halifax, NS.'

I actually think Clinton's right here, Claire is putting the cart before the horse. A job interview has, being quite generous, maybe a 50% chance of succeeding. And then Claire has to decide whether she wants to take the job at all - which if it were a normal library job would be a no-brainer, but again, _floating AI colony_. It's only after that where her relationship with Marten comes into play. It's certainly in character for Claire to get anxiety two steps ahead though.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Actually, considering that Claire's hypothetical job offer is onboard a floating AI-controlled colony (rogue state?) this is perhaps a more reasonable fear than it seems. The situation is considerably more exotic than 'library job in Halifax, NS.'


I didn't say or imply that she was wrong in her assumption, just that she was jumping several steps ahead in her anxieties. Claire's fears don't tend to be implausible or unrealistic, they just tend to correspond to things several steps along the path that she isn't at yet. And Dora is (rightly) pointing out that she should at least take the interview and be open to the possibility. If this is what breaks her and Marten... well, that will be sad, but as much as she's worried that this change would make him miserable, not even trying would make _her_ miserable.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Frankly, some of the cast have spent several weeks' worth of comics in space, Marten included. A floating library isn't really all that wild in the context of this series. The absolute worst case scenario I can think of here is that Claire gets the interview and moves to Canada but Marten wants to stay so he stays and it puts a damper on their relationship for a while until they adjust.

----------


## Ionathus

Come now, Marten, we've all known for awhile now that "Sludge Hermit" is obviously your final form.

----------


## Wraith

In Marten's defence, Claire wasn't NOT making this sound like a break-up speech.  :Small Tongue: 

Going feral and becoming a Morlock is a slight over-reaction, perhaps... But significantly less so than an alcohol-induced hospital visit.

----------


## Mordokai

> Going feral and becoming a Morlock is a slight over-reaction, perhaps... But significantly less so than an alcohol-induced hospital visit.


I politely, but firmly disagree  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Keltest

And then Martin and Claire moved to canada and the comic moved to focus full time on the strange sci-fi environment Jeph clearly enjoys writing, leaving the old cast behind forever with no further mention.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Going feral and becoming a Morlock is a slight over-reaction, perhaps... But significantly less so than an alcohol-induced hospital visit.


I don't think that was so much a _plan_ as a "look, everything seems fine to me, so the idea that things are actually ending all of a sudden is a real shock to the system."

And here we see that things are still progressing just fine and Marten is more than capable of making responsible, mature decisions - and how much Claire means to him.

----------


## geoduck

It will be interesting to see if Jeph has them casually move to Canada, or if Marten will actually have to deal with immigration roadblocks. (I mean, it's a pretty foregone conclusion that they're leaving, right?)

----------


## Mechalich

> It will be interesting to see if Jeph has them casually move to Canada, or if Marten will actually have to deal with immigration roadblocks. (I mean, it's a pretty foregone conclusion that they're leaving, right?)


He should at least mention some of the procedural aspects, which apply to Claire as well. A work permit is fairly routine, but there is a process to go through by both the prospective employer and employee and it requires multiple steps and visits to government offices - Canada requires biometrics for this (ie. fingerprints) which can't be done in Northampton, MA.

----------


## VoxRationis

> It will be interesting to see if Jeph has them casually move to Canada, or if Marten will actually have to deal with immigration roadblocks. (I mean, it's a pretty foregone conclusion that they're leaving, right?)


Well, if the idea is that this is actually some sort of seastead in international waters just outside of Canada, those roadblocks might not apply.

----------


## Keltest

> Well, if the idea is that this is actually some sort of seastead in international waters just outside of Canada, those roadblocks might not apply.


Maybe not, but I can't imagine that any sort of scientific station, especially an international one, would be particularly happy to have some rando living there as well if they arent a spouse of or one of the workers. Maybe theyll let Martin tag along because authority figures the world over are inexplicably chill in the QC universe, but the most realistic outcome here would be them wanting to see Martin's paperwork to justify his presence.


Although admittedly, Martin and Claire getting married so they could move off shore of canada would indeed be a wild twist.

----------


## Wraith

> Maybe theyll let Martin tag along because authority figures the world over are inexplicably chill in the QC universe


Considering the state of the email sent to Claire, the AI in charge is as hopelessly lolrandom as the rest of them, so it's a fair bet that this is likely.

I'm still holding out for the possibility that Claire gets offered the job because she's worked hard, earned her degree and proven herself a capable academic... And then Marten gets offered the job as her co-worker because, although he doesn't have the qualifications, he has way more experience in the field than her....  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Keltest

> Considering the state of the email sent to Claire, the AI in charge is as hopelessly lolrandom as the rest of them, so it's a fair bet that this is likely.
> 
> I'm still holding out for the possibility that Claire gets offered the job because she's worked hard, earned her degree and proven herself a capable academic... And then Marten gets offered the job as her co-worker because, although he doesn't have the qualifications, he has way more experience in the field than her....


Martin does have the ability to follow simple instructions, which is far, far more useful in just about every field that many skills taught at college.

----------


## Mordokai

All I'm saying is, if the old cast finally gets sidelined(as we've been expecting, I guess), I'm finally giving this webcomic a pass.

This isn't a, "they've changed it, now it sucks" so much as it is, "I really don't care about these people enough to keep investing thirty seconds a day into it".

I'll be sad about it. Not because of the comic itself, I haven't really been invested in it for a while. But this thread is pretty much the last link to GitP I have and you guys are, mostly, fine people. It'll be one more part of my past going away.

Maybe it's for the best  :Small Smile:  Time to move on. Let's see how it turns out, in the next couple of days.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> Also, as someone who really doesn't much like how Dora and Marten's relationship ended, feels like it was really authorial fiat, and has never really felt like Dora and Tai were anything more than a mashed-together couple that didn't really make a whole lot of sense? No, Dora did not single-handedly torpedo her relationship with Marten. Yes, her insecurities and issues were definitely a big dang problem and led to the blow-up, but it was _Marten_ who escalated things and decided to make what was honestly a pretty minor thing into a wedge that ruined their relationship. It was _Marten_ who said that he was sick of her apologies. It was _Marten_ who ultimately kept treating Dora's biggest insecurity that he was only with her because he couldn't be with Faye as an "ugh, are you still on that?" instead of a serious problem.


I wanted to add soemthing, but I don't know that I could put i better than you. The problems in their relationship only seemed to become a thing in the very moment of breakup, there was to me never any indication that they were driving into a wall until they broke up. To this day I sometimes feel like today I will open the comic and it will be rectified, Claire and Thai be damned, and Marten and Dora will be together again.

In other news, I noticed your recent contributions in the goblins Thread and I liked really everything I saw. I wondered where you hid, but then I saw you just joined, altough you obviously know yor history. You are a voice of reeason and deliberation this sort of controversial comics really need.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> All I'm saying is, if the old cast finally gets sidelined(as we've been expecting, I guess), I'm finally giving this webcomic a pass.
> 
> This isn't a, "they've changed it, now it sucks" so much as it is, "I really don't care about these people enough to keep investing thirty seconds a day into it".
> 
> I'll be sad about it. Not because of the comic itself, I haven't really been invested in it for a while. But this thread is pretty much the last link to GitP I have and you guys are, mostly, fine people. It'll be one more part of my past going away.
> 
> Maybe it's for the best  Time to move on. Let's see how it turns out, in the next couple of days.


Yeah... I can see how Jeph felt the need for the trigger warning.

Aren't you interested in the conclusion of OoTS? Enough to stay here, anyway?

----------


## Eldan

I used to come here mostly for OotS, but that's so long ago... I think I last read OotS when the goblins were besieging Saphire city. I think it was called Saphire City. The city of blue samurai paladins.

----------


## Willie the Duck

Claire, sure you can't cross them unless you come to them, but you also don't have to cross them unless you come to them. That's. The. Point.




> Aren't you interested in the conclusion of OoTS? Enough to stay here, anyway?


Oots? Well, for me, I mean I still read it. But, no, not really, there isn't some magical conclusion which will blow my mind. The heroes will save the day, Belkar is fated to die (unless they do some hairbrained fate-screw like make two Belkars). Some others will die (especially the tertiary characters, but maybe more of the main cast. I can see the final panel being Roy playing blocks with his little brother in the afterlife), the rest will live happily ever after. Redcloak may get a last minute heel-face-turn (or at least a 'I was wrong, Dwarf!' moment). Nothing will make the first decade or more of the strip not be wondrous, but at the same time, there's nothing keeping me in the final stretch but inertia and it being easy to check.

----------


## Wraith

I wonder if, at some point in about 2002, Marten had this same conversation with a girl called Vicky...?

----------


## Ionathus

Glad to get some vindication for Dora's supposedly "horrible" advice in these last few strips.




> I wonder if, at some point in about 2002, Marten had this same conversation with a girl called Vicky...?


Sounds like they never actually HAD this conversation in as much depth: the narrative painted Vicky as the villain, but Marten was definitely ignoring many warning signs. Such as him saying "well, I'll move out to the east coast with you!" and Vicky saying "...yeah...I guess..."

That's a sign that you should be having a deeper conversation if I've ever seen one.

----------


## Mordokai

> Aren't you interested in the conclusion of OoTS? Enough to stay here, anyway?


It's an interesting question. I am still definitely interested in the comic itself, but the speed(or rather, the lack of it) of the updates managed to kill that interest to a point as well. But I can wait. I guess I'll just have to discipline myself to stay away from the forums and check only the comic every once in a blue moon.

The people I used to mingle with seem to have moved on, so yeah, there's not much incentive for me to hang around. It's more of nostalgia than anything else that's keeping me around at this point and I think I would benefit from severing that link.

----------


## Keltest

> It's an interesting question. I am still definitely interested in the comic itself, but the speed(or rather, the lack of it) of the updates managed to kill that interest to a point as well. But I can wait. I guess I'll just have to discipline myself to stay away from the forums and check only the comic every once in a blue moon.
> 
> The people I used to mingle with seem to have moved on, so yeah, there's not much incentive for me to hang around. It's more of nostalgia than anything else that's keeping me around at this point and I think I would benefit from severing that link.


I know I am certainly kept here by the community rather than the comic at this point. I can forgive the update schedule even without the medical necessity behind it, the comic just isnt that good anymore IMO.

----------


## Mordokai

> I know I am certainly kept here by the community rather than the comic at this point. I can forgive the update schedule even without the medical necessity behind it, the comic just isnt that good anymore IMO.


And I can certainly see that. Maybe even agree with it. I've discovered the comic back around 100-200 mark.

That's some twenty years ago. Almost half of my life.

Back then, it has been a simple story geared toward making fun of DnD rules. Since then, a lot has changed. Whether for good or bad, I leave it up to you.

But despite it all... I still find myself interested in the story. Nostalgia may have something to do with it. Maybe even most of it.

But... the comic was the start of my interest in this site. The forum/community took over for a large period of time. And now, I find my interests shifting back to the comic again. Cycle of nature, I guess  :Small Tongue: 

I had some great times around here. I will always cherish the memories. But I can get behind changing my focus again  :Small Smile:

----------


## Kish

Well, I seem to be one of the few people, perhaps the only person, in this thread to have been reading OotS for the story for most of its run, instead of losing interest in it the harder it becomes to ignore the fact that it has a story.

That being the case, I don't think it's a good comparison because, since around comic #13 (the appropriately named "Plot, Ahoy!") OotS has had a story; it's a seven-volume graphic novel series, with a planned overall arc and ending. Questionable Content is something different.

----------


## Traab

Ive been reading OotS since i think, around the time the first gate blew up and been following since. I ended up reading the webcomics I do because of this forum for the most part. And at this stage I think the only comic ive dropped to date is the latest dominic deegan one. I just couldnt enjoy it anymore. It wasnt even enjoyable to make fun of.

----------


## Dame_Mechanus

> Well, I seem to be one of the few people, perhaps the only person, in this thread to have been reading OotS for the story for most of its run, instead of losing interest in it the harder it becomes to ignore the fact that it has a story.


It wouldn't have kept my interest for nearly this long if it were still basically just "ha ha, sometimes 3.5e rules don't make a whole lot of sense." I find that the most boring part of the comic and the only thing that hooked me in was the promise of the story. Over the years, the more it's become clear that it's a comic that happens to occasionally reference D&D in service to a larger story, the more invested I've gotten in it.




> That being the case, I don't think it's a good comparison because, since around comic #13 (the appropriately named "Plot, Ahoy!") OotS has had a story; it's a seven-volume graphic novel series, with a planned overall arc and ending. Questionable Content is something different.


Right. QC has always, for better or worse, been a weird slice-of-life thing following the characters that Jeph finds it interesting to write about. Sometimes he introduces characters who get sidelined pretty quickly (remember Gabby?) and sometimes a new character becomes immensely important. That's just kind of the nature of things. Would I like to see more of, say, Penelope? Yes, actually. But overall it doesn't bother me that he writes the comic he wants to write, and if it does start to bore me, well, so be it. He can't write the comic for me, after all; odds are pretty much nil he knows of my existence in the first place.

----------


## VoxRationis

The history of offshore communities suggests that it's most likely either some sort of scam or a cult, and the fact that they reached out to a random grad in a field that has more hopefuls than openings to suggest a job with a vague purpose (how does one do librarian work on behalf of someone who can just search through everything in their mind?) reinforces the notion that this is some sort of predatory organization.

That said, I don't think it will be, or at least, it won't be in the most immediately obvious way, for that would make for a less engaging story.

----------


## Cazero

Guys, the internet isn't magical. Robots can search everything with their mind solely because it is curated. Librarians are good at that.

----------


## Keltest

> Guys, the internet isn't magical. Robots can search everything with their mind solely because it is curated. Librarians are good at that.


Yeah, but they dont own the internet so... what are they curating exactly?

----------


## Mechalich

The internet is not curated, it is _indexed_ by algorithmic agents, it's far too large to be curated by knowledgeable experts. Nor is it really accurate to say that QC AIs can 'search the internet with their mind' since they do not have search agents of their own. What they actually possess is a direct mind to network interface allowing them to open Google inside their heads using mental commands. This is something a human could also do, hypothetically, with a proper brain-machine interface. 

Now, it's entirely possible that a group of AIs could use some serious data curation because they are suffering from information overload or are utilizing certain kinds of data that does not respond well to traditional search algorithms and desire advice from librarians. They might even have produced some class of physical artifacts that they are struggling to organize. 




> The history of offshore communities suggests that it's most likely either some sort of scam or a cult, and the fact that they reached out to a random grad in a field that has more hopefuls than openings to suggest a job with a vague purpose (how does one do librarian work on behalf of someone who can just search through everything in their mind?) reinforces the notion that this is some sort of predatory organization.


I can think of at least one good reason to put an AI colony offshore: heavy computation creates heat, and the ocean is cool. It's possible Cubetown runs hot enough that if it were located in downtown Halifax it would spontaneously combust and the AIs decided 'let's just use liquid cooling' without properly considering the logistical challenges of building an ocean base.

----------


## Keltest

> I can think of at least one good reason to put an AI colony offshore: heavy computation creates heat, and the ocean is cool. It's possible Cubetown runs hot enough that if it were located in downtown Halifax it would spontaneously combust and the AIs decided 'let's just use liquid cooling' without properly considering the logistical challenges of building an ocean base.


Alternatively, they could be involved in some sort of heavily aquatic study, whether it be some specific flavor of marine biology or a more general "how can we explore the depths of the ocean?" sort of deal, which would of course be difficult to progress with in the middle of the canadian forest.

----------


## Wraith

Or, probably more likely, it means that Jeph can write a place that is sort-of-kind-of culturally like Nova Scotia, but have "it's also on an island in the ocean" as a plausible get-out-of-writing-into-corners card available whenever he wants it.

Which, frankly, is a smart idea. People have complained that the QC timeline doesn't make sense, or that the geography is weird, or that the tech doesn't make sense. Set a part of the comic on a space station, however, or a floating arcology, and you're free to tie in whatever you want, whenever you want, without the real world getting in the way.

Just... don't make it "Halifax but with even more inane, pastel-coloured people loitering around", is all I ask.

----------


## Mechalich

> Just... don't make it "Halifax but with even more inane, pastel-coloured people loitering around", is all I ask.


I suspect this will depend upon how far off the coast from Halifax it is. The continental shelf extends out from Nova Scotia for nearly 100km, meaning Cubetown could be way out there. On the other hand, it could be just outside the bay from Halifax, no more than a short ferry ride away.

----------


## halfeye

> I suspect this will depend upon how far off the coast from Halifax it is. The continental shelf extends out from Nova Scotia for nearly 100km, meaning Cubetown could be way out there. On the other hand, it could be just outside the bay from Halifax, no more than a short ferry ride away.


Territorial waters is 200 kilometres?

----------


## Mechalich

> Territorial waters is 200 kilometres?


Territorial waters is 12 nautical miles. The contiguous zone extends for the next 12 nautical miles after that. The exclusive economic zone is 200 nautical miles.

But I was thinking less in terms of legality and more of travel convenience. Most offshore island settlements rely primarily on ferry service for access (the super rich may have helicopters, but this is clearly outside the reach of the masses). There's a _big_ difference between a 15 minute ferry ride and a 1 hour ferry ride, especially as larger ferries have longer load/offload times which both lengthens the actual travel time and reduces the frequency of trips. An island that's reachable by a 15-minute ferry journey is just a funky suburb. One that takes an hour is an isolated community with little mainland contact (especially in Nova Scotia, where the North Atlantic is liable to decide 'no ferry for you!' quite a few days of the year). 

Of course, AIs have it easier living in quasi-isolation, since many of the tricky aspects of living on an island, like importing food and dealing with waste, are essentially eliminated by their non-biological nature. Hopefully they have considered the complications of adding meatbags to the mix.

----------


## Eldan

This feels incredibly relateable. I have anxiety, and I've written a lot of job applications. Probably one of my worst phone calls was when I was shopping at a supermarket and someone called me, introduced himself as "Doctor [garbled surname in a loud supermarket]" from "the research institute" (yes, he actually said that) and wanted to ask me when I could come in for an interview. I had nothing to write on me, and didn't know which Doctor he was or which Research Institute he was from, so I think I mostly just stammered around for two minutes and then asked him if I could call him back in half an hour. Almost died of embarassment. 

Didn't get the job, either.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I appreciate how Dora's only objection so far is that the alley is gross. She doesn't seem like one of those egotistical god-complex bosses who'll basically throw you out on the street for even thinking about seeking other opportunities.

----------


## Wraith

I have to admit, if I were interviewing someone who appeared to be standing in an alley next to a rat and/or garbage can because they were too shy or scatter-brained to go back indoors, I would have questions as to whether or not they were suitable for a role of authority such as librarian, especially in such a chaotic and unprecedented place as a newly founded city built by AIs and all the wackiness that potentially entails.

That being said; If an employer sends you an email saying that they will call to schedule an interview, and then they schedule that interview for "right now", that's an even bigger red flag. Either they have little respect for their prospective employees' time and priorities, or they're haphazardly skipping parts of their recruitment process out of incompetence or malevolence and both prospects are frightening.

These are, after all, QC AIs - even if Claire had said she was free 'at anytime', there's a 50-50 chance that they would have called her at 3:17am and gone, "But you said you'd be free - what is it with humans and their obsession with unconsciousness?"  :Small Tongue:  :Small Wink:

----------


## Keltest

> I have to admit, if I were interviewing someone who appeared to be standing in an alley next to a rat and/or garbage can because they were too shy or scatter-brained to go back indoors, I would have questions as to whether or not they were suitable for a role of authority such as librarian, especially in such a chaotic and unprecedented place as a newly founded city built by AIs and all the wackiness that potentially entails.
> 
> That being said; If an employer sends you an email saying that they will call to schedule an interview, and then they schedule that interview for "right now", that's an even bigger red flag. Either they have little respect for their prospective employees' time and priorities, or they're haphazardly skipping parts of their recruitment process out of incompetence or malevolence and both prospects are frightening.
> 
> These are, after all, QC AIs - even if Claire had said she was free 'at anytime', there's a 50-50 chance that they would have called her at 3:17am and gone, "But you said you'd be free - what is it with humans and their obsession with unconsciousness?"


Lets be fair, sometimes timing just works weirdly. It does seem like they called to ask, rather than tell her it was now, so its entirely possible that if Claire had said she wasnt free right this second they would have said "ok, we can also do 4, 6, 6:30, 7 and 9 PM any day for the next week. Do any of those work for you?" or something to that effect.

----------


## DavidSh

> I suspect this will depend upon how far off the coast from Halifax it is. The continental shelf extends out from Nova Scotia for nearly 100km, meaning Cubetown could be way out there. On the other hand, it could be just outside the bay from Halifax, no more than a short ferry ride away.


I give it a 10% probability of being on Sable Island,, very approximately 300 km from Halifax., and somewhat closer to more easterly parts of mainland Nova Scotia.

----------


## Wraith

> Lets be fair, sometimes timing just works weirdly. It does seem like they called to ask, rather than tell her it was now, so its entirely possible that if Claire had said she wasnt free right this second they would have said "ok, we can also do 4, 6, 6:30, 7 and 9 PM any day for the next week. Do any of those work for you?" or something to that effect.


Of course, you could be right. I'm finding it a bit difficult to fit that conversation into Claire's phrasing, though:

Claire: "This is- I'm Claire. Claire Augustus. You just called me?"
Other side: "Yes, we called in order to conduct your interview."
Claire: "Wh- NOW!?"
Other Side: "Yes, is that a problem?"

You could maybe fit, "We can always call back later if you prefer" or something to that effect but it's a bit awkward to fit in?

I'm taking it as, "Jeph wanted to get this boring part over with ASAP so that he could move on to a tour of showing off his new AI city next week", and frankly, fair enough. As has been pointed out, Jeph hasn't interviewed for a job since before 2005 and the less time he spends on it, the less things people are going to criticise him for.

----------


## halfeye

> Of course, you could be right. I'm finding it a bit difficult to fit that conversation into Claire's phrasing, though:
> 
> Claire: "This is- I'm Claire. Claire Augustus. You just called me?"
> Other side: "Yes, we called in order to conduct your interview."
> Claire: "Wh- NOW!?"
> Other Side: "Yes, is that a problem?"
> 
> You could maybe fit, "We can always call back later if you prefer" or something to that effect but it's a bit awkward to fit in?
> 
> I'm taking it as, "Jeph wanted to get this boring part over with ASAP so that he could move on to a tour of showing off his new AI city next week", and frankly, fair enough. As has been pointed out, Jeph hasn't interviewed for a job since before 2005 and the less time he spends on it, the less things people are going to criticise him for.


Interviews are always at the interviewer's choice, you can put them off if you have a reason, but the odds do not favour the interviewer liking it (some will, some won't, the won'ts are usually the majority).

----------


## Radar

> Interviews are always at the interviewer's choice, you can put them off if you have a reason, but the odds do not favour the interviewer liking it (some will, some won't, the won'ts are usually the majority).


That being said, the time of the interview is most commonly arranged in advance - not as random as here.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Claire is gonna get the job and it's gonna turn out the Cubetown is run by Gerald Robotnik or something.

----------


## Radar

> Claire is gonna get the job and it's gonna turn out the Cubetown is run by Gerald Robotnik or something.


If he is the Jim Carrey version, I would be perfectly fine with that.  :Small Wink:

----------


## Keltest

> If he is the Jim Carrey version, I would be perfectly fine with that.


Jim Carrey was Ivo Robotnik, Gerald is his grandfather.

----------


## Wraith

There has been a leak from Jeph's Patreon which, with as much context as is available, suggests what the residents of Cubetown look like.

It's not Jim Carrey, as Dr Robotnik or otherwise. It's a "thicc goo-girl". Make of that what you will.

----------


## Radar

> Jim Carrey was Ivo Robotnik, Gerald is his grandfather.


Oh, did not know there was a whole family of mustache-twirling roboticists fixated on a blue hedgehog.

----------


## Wraith

> Oh, did not know there was a whole family of mustache-twirling roboticists fixated on a blue hedgehog.


In the expanded universe (Oh yes, there's Sonic the Hedgehog _lore_) there aren't. Ovi Kintobor was a benevolent and helpful inventor who was caught in an egg/lightning-related accident which transformed him into the ruthless and cruel dictator, Dr Ivo Robotnik.

I am not even remotely joking.

----------


## Keltest

> In the expanded universe (Oh yes, there's Sonic the Hedgehog _lore_) there aren't. Ovi Kintobor was a benevolent and helpful inventor who was caught in an egg/lightning-related accident which transformed him into the ruthless and cruel dictator, Dr Ivo Robotnik.
> 
> I am not even remotely joking.


Isnt that just the Archie Comics stuff or something?

----------


## Wraith

> Isnt that just the Archie Comics stuff or something?


Christ, are there multiple parallel universes of this stuff!?!?

----------


## geoduck

This conversation is already flashing warning signs that Claire will probably ignore.

----------


## Shogo

A couple different universes.

The Archie comics one is mostly based on one of the Sonic cartoons generally referred to as SatAM. Mostly to distinguish it from other Sonic cartoons. Why SatAM? Because it aired Saturday mornings.

It had Sonic as part of the Freedom Fighters and was pretty cool. Took place on a planet called Mobius. To summarize the story that eventually got told in the comics . . . Mobius is actually a future Earth. Some aliens tried to make first contact with humanity and one of Eggman's ancestors basically kidnapped their emissary and vivisected them. The angry aliens bombarded Earth with "gene bombs" that killed most of humanity, but this also somehow "merged" human genetics with animals. Which is why there are animal people like Sonic the Hedgehog.

What was left of humanity eventually went to war with the animal people. Eggman didn't think he got enough respect so he decided to defect and help the animal people, then turned around and betrayed them to do his whole robot army thing and try to conquer the world.

It gets pretty wild. You mostly just have to try to pretend Ken Penders doesn't exist, which isn't easy with all his nonsense. Especially where Knuckles and the Echidnas are concerned. (Penders also did some stuff that basically killed the Archie series, so now the comics are done by IDW.)

========

But to remain on topic . . . Somehow I already find myself filled with dread at the prospect of learning more about Cubetown.

----------


## LeSwordfish

Augh i do not want to read a comic about Quirky Naked Big-titty Goo Women. I did not want to read a comic about quirky semi-naked multi-breasted big-titty cow women either. If this is where the comic is going I shall not follow. Maybe i'll go back to ctrl-alt-delete, at least when Buckley shows off his fetish it's just "princess leia bikini".

----------


## Mechalich

> Augh i do not want to read a comic about Quirky Naked Big-titty Goo Women. I did not want to read a comic about quirky semi-naked multi-breasted big-titty cow women either. If this is where the comic is going I shall not follow. Maybe i'll go back to ctrl-alt-delete, at least when Buckley shows off his fetish it's just "princess leia bikini".


Aurelia, at least, was presenting an online avatar. Moray apparently - since a random guy is able to walk into the frame - actually has some kind of physical chassis fashioned as a hentai slime-woman. And while I can certainly imagine that in an AI-only environment AIs, especially those not socialized to appear to human-based aesthetic standards, might chose to appear in ways that seem bizarre to us (this was in fact a major plot point of Charles Stross' novel _Saturn's Children_) it does not belong in this webcomic as anything more than a one-off gag, and even that's pushing it.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

What? Okay, I guess it's his comic and all, but... Slide the camera down, Jeph. I dare you. I double dare you.

Also this clearly is not a very traditional work environment. I don't think the comic ever pretended it was going to be, but I wasn't expecting slimegirl robots.

----------


## Eldan

> What? Okay, I guess it's his comic and all, but... Slide the camera down, Jeph. I dare you. I double dare you.


He already posted that on his Patreon. You can go see it on the comic's reddit, people crossposted it. The reception wasn't good.

----------


## Rodin

First comment from the reddit sums it up for me:




> Jeph, if you want to make a fetish comic, just do it. Soft reboot with your AIs and your anthrocows and I guess your goo girls and let the rest of the original cast have an ending. JFC.


Jeph being bored with QC and wanting to draw a fetish comic would make a lot of sense.  It explains Mommymilkers, and the weird fanfic being read on-stream, and even links back to Claire talking about being a foot fetish model as that particular fetish _also_ made a reappearance during that godawful Mommymilkers bit.

I seriously believe he wants to draw outright porn but thinks that if he does so it will bring down his reputation and his main income source of QC.  So he's inserting as much as he thinks he can get away with as a trial balloon to see if his current audience will follow him.

So far, the response seems to be a resounding "No."

----------


## LeSwordfish

> I seriously believe he wants to draw outright porn but thinks that if he does so it will bring down his reputation and his main income source of QC.  So he's inserting as much as he thinks he can get away with as a trial balloon to see if his current audience will follow him.


I remember how during the May/Sven hookup he also posted an uncensored version of one of the comics with what felt like a very sour attitude - I WOULD put this porn on your screen but the PRUDES at google would cut my adsense, which in retrospect was a bad sign.

Just do porn as a sideline, Jacques. It works for David Willis, doesn't it, and all his characters are humans.

----------


## Gez

I'm not even gonna comment on Jeff's Quirky Fetish Bot #42069.

Remember when people wondered why AIs with network access in their mind would want to hire a librarian? Well given they've hired a nuclear physicist to do janitorial work, we can already answer: she's not being hired to do library work. The rational attitude would be to stay a barista.

----------


## Wraith

> What? Okay, I guess it's his comic and all, but... Slide the camera down, Jeph. I dare you. I double dare you.


She (They?) are built like a Barbie doll, its weird but not inherently NSFW unless your workplace is especially prudish.




> Remember when people wondered why AIs with network access in their mind would want to hire a librarian? Well given they've hired a nuclear physicist to do janitorial work, we can already answer: she's not being hired to do library work. The rational attitude would be to stay a barista.


In fairness to Jeph, he's not pretending that this is a normal interview. It's a world where the business is run by a quirky robot-girl on a sci-fi city that floats in the ocean, it's silly and the people are silly, and Claire is going to get hired because she's the only applicant to have read ONE website about the place, in the same why that Marten got hired at the library by noticing that the application form was written in rhyming verse.

The only semi-objection that I have to this exchange - apart from who is involved in it, what is being said, and the way they're saying it, of course - is the fact that Moray is *Director* of Sentient Resources, and they're interviewing an entry-level peon. That's middle-manager work, especially in HR, and far more likely it would be conducted by the Director of Libraries because that's who Claire would report to.  :Small Tongue: 

But yeah. Red flags for days. I would have serious reservations about moving across the street to work for this place, let alone to another country.

----------


## Eldan

> I'm not even gonna comment on Jeff's Quirky Fetish Bot #42069.
> 
> Remember when people wondered why AIs with network access in their mind would want to hire a librarian? Well given they've hired a nuclear physicist to do janitorial work, we can already answer: she's not being hired to do library work. The rational attitude would be to stay a barista.


Reddit actually sums it up really well.

So, there's a place out in the ocean that does cutting edge AI research, apparently. 
And among all the people they tried to hire, only one of them even had a look at their website? 

A place like that should have hundreds of extremely motivated graduates applying if it was even half-way legitimate. I've worked at two universities in my life. One was a world class institution (like, top ten in the field) and they got 200 applications from around the world for _anything_ they offered, even if the group in question wasn't cutting edge. The other where I'm currently working is... second or third tier and no one outside the country has heard of it. Still easily 30, 40 applications for any job offer.

I kind of put up with Jeph's weird fetishes, but I'm kind of starting to agree with Reddit that I should start considering it quits.

----------


## Yuki Akuma

Once again, Jeph does no research. I'm not convinced he's ever had a 'real job' if he thinks the _director_ of HRSR is going to be doing job interviews.

Moray is pretty cute though not gonna lie.

----------


## Vinyadan

Two considerations.

One is how squiked that subreddit is, but also how it's the origin of some of the deliberately grossest strip slays I've ever seen.

The other one is that QC has been heavily influenced by manga (Azumanga Daioh was mentioned as one of the important influences on comic). Nowadays when I see manga quoted online, it's almost always heavily sexualised content. I don't know if there has been a shift in production, or if it's just what the fandom is talking about, but I wonder if that's why QC keeps touching these themes, as it's what the manga community is talking and joking about.

----------


## Wraith

> Once again, Jeph does no research. I'm not convinced he's ever had a 'real job' if he thinks the _director_ of HRSR is going to be doing job interviews.


It tells us one thing; that there is no one else of note on the island. It's like a start-up - there's the founder, their two closest buddies who become CFO and VP respectively, and now they're just trying to pull in people to whatever positions they think need filling.

*I* could be a Company Director, if I wanted to. I could fill in a form, pay ~$50 to register a trademark, and could legally put "Wraith - CEO, WTF-Industries Inc" on a business card. My company would only exist on paper and have no assets, but that's not even a problem.

Moray is Director of SR _because there is no one else in SR in Cubetown_. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Claire finds herself being hired as Chief Senior Librarian 1st Class, by virtue of being the only librarian there.  :Small Tongue: 

Also, there's already an industry-recognised, politically correct alternative to Human Resources - it's "People Professional", because referring to any kind of beings as a 'resource' is unpleasant. Sentient Resources is just... kind of worse? It makes me feel like they're going to start exploiting orang-utan, or something.

EDIT: Reddit has more leaks of tomorrow's comic, showing off more of Moray. The anatomy only gets worse.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Reddit actually sums it up really well.
> 
> So, there's a place out in the ocean that does cutting edge AI research, apparently. 
> And among all the people they tried to hire, only one of them even had a look at their website? 
> 
> A place like that should have hundreds of extremely motivated graduates applying if it was even half-way legitimate. I've worked at two universities in my life. One was a world class institution (like, top ten in the field) and they got 200 applications from around the world for _anything_ they offered, even if the group in question wasn't cutting edge. The other where I'm currently working is... second or third tier and no one outside the country has heard of it. Still easily 30, 40 applications for any job offer.
> 
> I kind of put up with Jeph's weird fetishes, but I'm kind of starting to agree with Reddit that I should start considering it quits.





> Once again, Jeph does no research. I'm not convinced he's ever had a 'real job' if he thinks the _director_ of HRSR is going to be doing job interviews.
> 
> Moray is pretty cute though not gonna lie.


He probably didn't research how human resources departments work, no. Regardless, this brings up a thought for me -- this research facility, the college library, the robot rights non-profit, heck the police department -- they all behave like Coffee of Doom -- both in scale and in how hilarious it is when things are chaotic/unprofessional/falling apart (or ought to). It maps to what I've seen called 'dysfunctional family in the workplace' sitcoms like Spin City and NewsRadio, etc. Those too had what should be massively-multiple-employee organizations (radio station, city hall) act like 6-10 person enterprises. Obviously with QC there aren't number-of-salaried-actor concerns, and given that Jeph isn't afraid to add loads and loads of characters, it's not being done out of conservation of characters the audience has to keep track of. It might be simply following a sitcom trope, or yes maybe he can't mentally scale up from his own work experience.

----------


## Keltest

> It tells us one thing; that there is no one else of note on the island. It's like a start-up - there's the founder, their two closest buddies who become CFO and VP respectively, and now they're just trying to pull in people to whatever positions they think need filling.
> 
> *I* could be a Company Director, if I wanted to. I could fill in a form, pay ~$50 to register a trademark, and could legally put "Wraith - CEO, WTF-Industries Inc" on a business card. My company would only exist on paper and have no assets, but that's not even a problem.
> 
> Moray is Director of SR _because there is no one else in SR in Cubetown_. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Claire finds herself being hired as Chief Senior Librarian 1st Class, by virtue of being the only librarian there. 
> 
> Also, there's already an industry-recognised, politically correct alternative to Human Resources - it's "People Professional", because referring to any kind of beings as a 'resource' is unpleasant. Sentient Resources is just... kind of worse? It makes me feel like they're going to start exploiting orang-utan, or something.
> 
> EDIT: Reddit has more leaks of tomorrow's comic, showing off more of Moray. The anatomy only gets worse.


This is true, but presumably you arent then going to actually go off and start hiring people to come out to your floating island base either. Although if you do, let me just say I'm open to being paid lots of money to do very little work if thats the direction you were actually going.

----------


## tyckspoon

> Moray is Director of SR _because there is no one else in SR in Cubetown_. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Claire finds herself being hired as Chief Senior Librarian 1st Class, by virtue of being the only librarian there.


Moray is also the Receptionist. And a 'Bucketkeeper', whatever the heck that is (currently tossing up between 'there are few enough physical beings on site that they pitch in with the janitorial duties' and 'it's a position on a team for some sport they invented using cleaning supplies.')

Currently thinking Moray is a multiply-bodied intelligence, similar to Yay (or more likely Station) where the main AI is powerful enough to afford to split attention over multiple instances of itself, or Moray just reaaaaaaalllly likes talking to people and has been given all the interacting-with-people-outside-of-Cubetown tasks to deal with while other people get on with whatever Cubetown's actual business is.

----------


## Keltest

> Moray is also the Receptionist. And a 'Bucketkeeper', whatever the heck that is (currently tossing up between 'there are few enough physical beings on site that they pitch in with the janitorial duties' and 'it's a position on a team for some sport they invented using cleaning supplies.')
> 
> Currently thinking Moray is a multiply-bodied intelligence, similar to Yay (or more likely Station) where the main AI is powerful enough to afford to split attention over multiple instances of itself, or Moray just reaaaaaaalllly likes talking to people and has been given all the interacting-with-people-outside-of-Cubetown tasks to deal with while other people get on with whatever Cubetown's actual business is.


On that note, the fact that we still dont know what Cubetown does yet is a really bad sign. Everything is a work in progress, theyre apparently horrifically understaffed, and are also apparently incredibly public about their ambitions, which has all the signs of a crash and burn in the works.

----------


## tyckspoon

> On that note, the fact that we still dont know what Cubetown does yet is a really bad sign. Everything is a work in progress, theyre apparently horrifically understaffed, and are also apparently incredibly public about their ambitions, which has all the signs of a crash and burn in the works.


What do you mean we don't know what Cubetown does? They do 'Holistic Research'! It's on the website and everything! Don't ask questions, just give them money >.>

.. pretty sure Claire was about to ask just what 'holistic research' means. Bet it means 'We contact random smart people and fund them to work on whatever they want until either the funding/grants run out, or a saleable product gets made as a side effect.' Which, tbh, is not even that weird, there are a nonzero number of real world companies that don't make money, have no foreseeable plan to make money, and operate almost entirely off of convincing funding providers that what they're working on will at some point make All The Money (the comic already touched on this for a joke once during the 'Get May a new body' sequence, with the visionary robotics company that isn't predicted to have actual positive cash flow for another five years.)

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Moray is also the Receptionist. And a 'Bucketkeeper', whatever the heck that is (currently tossing up between 'there are few enough physical beings on site that they pitch in with the janitorial duties' and 'it's a position on a team for some sport they invented using cleaning supplies.')


Perhaps she has to sleep in a bucket like Odo from Star Trek DS9 whenever she's offline to recharge or whatever?

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

I'm just amused by the "you have a particle physicist doing janitorial work?" quote from a someone who interned in a library where one of the chief librarians cleaned out the toilets.

----------


## Mordokai

> I'm just amused by the "you have a particle physicist doing janitorial work?" quote from a someone who interned in a library where one of the chief librarians cleaned out the toilets.


I am unclear on the joke. I'll put it down as English being my second language, but I may just be stupid. With that in mind... what is the joke here?

From my understanding, in the fourth panel, Moray says the person *thought* they were hired for doing particle physics, which Claire finds weird in the fifth panel and inquires about. To which Moray replies, they *are* janitor, just, you know... passionate about neutrinos.

Coupled with a somewhat angry look from the guy in the background, it leads me to believe this is a joke along the lines, "these wacky AIs don't understand basic humans". But, and again, this may be just me, the language used to express this is somewhat... janky?

So am I reading this entirely wrong? And if so, what is the correct interpretation of this wannabe joke?

----------


## Wraith

> Currently thinking Moray is a multiply-bodied intelligence, similar to Yay (or more likely Station) where the main AI is powerful enough to afford to split attention over multiple instances of itself, or Moray just reaaaaaaalllly likes talking to people and has been given all the interacting-with-people-outside-of-Cubetown tasks to deal with while other people get on with whatever Cubetown's actual business is.


I may be misremembering, but isn't that supposed to be illegal in-universe? Or at least, incredibly and unfathomably difficult to achieve unless you're also post-space-station levels of power and ability?

I can't see Jeph giving that attribute to another new, potentially throw-away member of the cast because it would devalue how special it would be to have Yay do it... But on the other hand, I can absolutely see Jeph giving it to another new, potentially throw-away member of the cast because _omg so random lol_




> What do you mean we don't know what Cubetown does? They do 'Holistic Research'! It's on the website and everything! Don't ask questions, just give them money >.>
> 
> .. pretty sure Claire was about to ask just what 'holistic research' means. Bet it means 'We contact random smart people and fund them to work on whatever they want until either the funding/grants run out, or a saleable product gets made as a side effect.' Which, tbh, is not even that weird, there are a nonzero number of real world companies that don't make money, have no foreseeable plan to make money, and operate almost entirely off of convincing funding providers that what they're working on will at some point make All The Money (the comic already touched on this for a joke once during the 'Get May a new body' sequence, with the visionary robotics company that isn't predicted to have actual positive cash flow for another five years.)


So in other words; when some smart-ass on Reddit asks 'how does any of this get paid for?' there's a built in answer of "They just do because having quirky millionaires anonymously donating money solves everything". 

Thank you, benevolent quirky white millionaires solving our problems for us on a whim; whatever would we do without you!  :Small Wink:  :Small Big Grin: 




> So am I reading this entirely wrong? And if so, what is the correct interpretation of this wannabe joke?


I *think* that the joke is supposed to be that Cubetown is really, REALLY bad at writing job descriptions and explaining themselves in interviews. They're so bad that they somehow managed to convey "you will clean toilets and empty garbage cans" as "you will be at the forefront of quantum technological development". 

I don't know how it would be possible to write a job description that could be easily interpreted as both roles, but apparently Cubetown found a way.  Just as randomly, the guy who applied to be a physicist was either desperate or deluded enough to accept a job mopping floors instead, even after finding out that the job wasn't what he thought it was.

It's not a very good joke. It's the same "AIs are hilariously bad at their jobs" joke that we've seen before, told in a confusing way, and with the additional punchline of what I think is supposed to be something along the lines of  "white collar workers are weird, random, and/or stupid", which just isn't very nice.

----------


## BRC

I get the impression that the joke here is supposed to be that they called up a Janitor and said "Hi! I'm from Cubetown, we would like to hire you!" 

And he assumed they were headhunting him as a particle physicist instead of a Janitor because he didn't bother to actually listen to what they were saying/read the employment contract. He just assumed that they'd, I dunno, read his forum rants and decided to give him a job as a particle physicist. 


As for the more general joke, it seems to be that there's a high level of awareness of Cubetown as some sort of cutting-edge research facility, but little actual knowledge of what it IS, to the point where Claire is unusual for having actually looked at the website, instead of just jumping at the opportunity to work there.

It's like (And I know this isn't how employment works anywhere), imagine somebody who loves Pokemon is told "Hello, this is Game Freak, I'd like to hire you for-" "YES" and  shows up for work thinking that they've been asked to design the next Pokemon game, only to be told they're working in the cafeteria. 

My guess, based purely off the words "Holistic Research" is that Cubetown is only a research facility secondarily, it's primarily an experiment in itself, put a bunch of scientists of different disciplines in a town together, make  them all work together, see if any interdisciplinary magic falls out.

----------


## Morquard

I'm a bit surprised nobody seems to have mentioned this particular red flag.
Not a minute into the interview the HEAD OF SR is dissing and making fun of another employee. That's such a big no-no on so many levels, that I don't even know where to start.
If that happened to me, I'd nope out there so fast, because I know the environment there is gonna be toxic as hell.

----------


## Wraith

To say nothing of the fact that the Head of SR is conducting a confidential interview with a non-HR, non-relevant member of staff standing around eavesdropping while she might be asked to show her photo ID or disclose some personal medical issue that might be relevant to the role.

Jeph did go to the trouble of actually hand-drawing the lights in the server stack to the right, though. Lesser artists would just have copy-pasted the pattern, so a point for effort if nothing else.

----------


## halfeye

I think the joke may be that they hired an actual physicist snd made him a janitor over his protests. Which would only be funny to sadists.

----------


## Vinyadan

"So, you do particle physics?" "Yes, I--" "Very well, these dust particles need to be physically removed by four."

----------


## Keltest

> I think the joke may be that they hired an actual physicist snd made him a janitor over his protests. Which would only be funny to sadists.


That would make the followup where he is clarified to actually be a janitor with a coincidentally overlapping hobby rather unusual though.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I can see it being actually pretty normal for the janitor to have applied for a "normal" cleaning position and during the interview maybe he brought up his neutrino thing and the goo girl said "Sweet, this is relevant enough to what we do to be a bonus trait".

----------


## Keltest

I find myself agreeing with Claire's skeptical face. Hopefully she has the nerve to ask who signs the paychecks, because as a librarian thats probably a more relevant detail to her decision making process than the abstract research goals. If the money runs dry within 3 months or even 2 years, she's kind of up poop creek without a paddle.

----------


## Mechalich

> I find myself agreeing with Claire's skeptical face. Hopefully she has the nerve to ask who signs the paychecks, because as a librarian thats probably a more relevant detail to her decision making process than the abstract research goals. If the money runs dry within 3 months or even 2 years, she's kind of up poop creek without a paddle.


Immigration law should protect her, at least a little, in this case. In Canada, in order to get a work permit for a non-citizen non-resident hire, the company has to submit what's called a Labour Market Impact Assessment, with the Canadian government and have it approved. This imposes a floor on how ridiculous of an enterprise one can run and still hire foreign workers. 

That said, Claire has some of flexibility to take on a fairly short-term position. She has no ties to her current job, isn't on a lease, and can store anything she doesn't immediately need at her mom's house. The biggest issue I see would be health care. Claire has ongoing health care needs and transitioning onto Canadian health care is a bit tricky prior to establishing residency in the relevant province. Hard to say much about it though since we don't know what her current health insurance situation even is (this is complicated by not knowing her actual age).

----------


## geoduck

> Immigration law should protect her, at least a little, in this case. In Canada, in order to get a work permit for a non-citizen non-resident hire, the company has to submit what's called a Labour Market Impact Assessment, with the Canadian government and have it approved. This imposes a floor on how ridiculous of an enterprise one can run and still hire foreign workers. 
> 
> That said, Claire has some of flexibility to take on a fairly short-term position. She has no ties to her current job, isn't on a lease, and can store anything she doesn't immediately need at her mom's house. The biggest issue I see would be health care. Claire has ongoing health care needs and transitioning onto Canadian health care is a bit tricky prior to establishing residency in the relevant province. Hard to say much about it though since we don't know what her current health insurance situation even is (this is complicated by not knowing her actual age).


I have to wonder if you've just given this issue more thought than Jeph has.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

"What does holistic research entail?"
"Wacky shenanigans with a cartoon laboratory backdrop and frequent use of science words as an excuse for them to happen."

That's what I'm getting, at least. I might have said before, but hey, it's his comic.

----------


## Mechalich

> I have to wonder if you've just given this issue more thought than Jeph has.


Maybe, but the 'amount of thought' I've put into this mostly involves typing 'work permit Canada' into google and tooling around with their FAQs for maybe 10 minutes. If Jeph can't clear that bar...

----------


## Eldan

> As for the more general joke, it seems to be that there's a high level of awareness of Cubetown as some sort of cutting-edge research facility, but little actual knowledge of what it IS, to the point where Claire is unusual for having actually looked at the website, instead of just jumping at the opportunity to work there.
> 
> It's like (And I know this isn't how employment works anywhere), imagine somebody who loves Pokemon is told "Hello, this is Game Freak, I'd like to hire you for-" "YES" and  shows up for work thinking that they've been asked to design the next Pokemon game, only to be told they're working in the cafeteria. 
> 
> My guess, based purely off the words "Holistic Research" is that Cubetown is only a research facility secondarily, it's primarily an experiment in itself, put a bunch of scientists of different disciplines in a town together, make  them all work together, see if any interdisciplinary magic falls out.


That's not even that out there. I've talked to a cafeteria employee at our university and she said she'd rather work here than almost anywhere else, because as an employee, she still has free university access and can sit in on seminars.

----------


## Gez

> That would make the followup where he is clarified to actually be a janitor with a coincidentally overlapping hobby rather unusual though.


It's only clarified that "janitor" is the title of his job here at Cubetown. The joke is still that he's a particle physicist, who thought he was hired to do science, and instead he gets menial labor. Claire is probably hired to go scrub the barnacles off Cubetown's underside.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I find myself agreeing with Claire's skeptical face. Hopefully she has the nerve to ask who signs the paychecks, because as a librarian thats probably a more relevant detail to her decision making process than the abstract research goals. If the money runs dry within 3 months or even 2 years, she's kind of up poop creek without a paddle.





> "What does holistic research entail?"
> "Wacky shenanigans with a cartoon laboratory backdrop and frequent use of science words as an excuse for them to happen."
> That's what I'm getting, at least. I might have said before, but hey, it's his comic.


Time will tell, but it does seem like Jeph is deliberately making this job sketchy and concerning (in a 'do I really want to take a job in this looney bin?' way). That puts my mind at ease a bit that he isn't turning the strip into Girl Genius/Narbonic -- the absurd mad scientist schtick stuff is supposed to be weird even in the comic universe. 




> Maybe, but the 'amount of thought' I've put into this mostly involves typing 'work permit Canada' into google and tooling around with their FAQs for maybe 10 minutes. If Jeph can't clear that bar...


But why would he be attempting to clear it (much less communicated it to us)? This is a scenario he hasn't put in his comic. Keltest just speculated it as an option.

----------


## Wraith

> Time will tell, but it does seem like Jeph is deliberately making this job sketchy and concerning (in a 'do I really want to take a job in this looney bin?' way). That puts my mind at ease a bit that he isn't turning the strip into Girl Genius/Narbonic -- the absurd mad scientist schtick stuff is supposed to be weird even in the comic universe.


Sketchy is fine. "This place is full of wacky AIs and your job as librarian is going to also encompass the role of glorified baby-sitter" is perfectly fine as a plot, and well within what we'd expect from Questionable Content. 
Heck, Claire lives with Pintsize and interned at SMIF where the senior lecturers bang on the photocopier and they have a special net for encroaching Hampshire students - that's work-relevant experience! It justifies her successful interview!  :Small Smile: 

The problem is, even to a casual glance it's coming off more like "This place is BAD sketchy, probably an off-shore tax avoidance scam and the AI are going to experiment on you like a rhesus monkey in a laboratory".

It could work - These AI could be quirky but endearing, and describe an eclectic, but legitimate, job that Claire wants to take. But they're not. They're annoying and appear dangerously unprepared to arrange a birthday party, let alone build a new society on an artificial island. It's not even one of those things where it's a fine line between the two - I feel like the entire fandom (genuine fans and snarkers alike) are reading it and going: "..the hell? No-one would fall for this. They will steal only your kidneys if you're lucky"

----------


## Ionathus

> "...They will steal only your kidneys if you're lucky"


What a fantastic line. Thank you for this  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Traab

On the other hand, they may be hiring her as a librarian, but in reality she may be a record keeper. Basically, a hard copy of everything they do and their results kept organized just in case they need them for something. I could see that being setup similar to a library. "Here is particle physics, here is botany, here is where they crossover" As for the job crashing in 3 years, thats still three years of work experience she can parley into her resume. That should help her out more than being a newbie graduate whose experience is working as an intern at the local college library.

----------


## Ionathus

> As for the job crashing in 3 years, thats still three years of work experience she can parley into her resume. That should help her out more than being a newbie graduate whose experience is working as an intern at the local college library.


Definitely. "2 years" is not the death sentence Keltest implied - having worked as a recruiter, I can tell you that 2 years looks *good* compared to a lot of the patchwork resumes I've seen. And Claire's just beginning her professional career too, which gives you a lot of leeway: if Cubetown goes belly-up in 5 months, her resume/CV will still show that she got a relevant job within 6ish months of graduating, then lost it through no fault of her own. If they ask her about it, she can talk about all the lessons she learned (maybe including "don't take a vague job with nudist goo people who do science in the ocean"). 

Sure, maybe it wouldn't be an ideal resume. She'd want to be prepared for questions about her employment timeline. But she certainly wouldn't be up any creek without a paddle.

----------


## Radar

> Definitely. "2 years" is not the death sentence Keltest implied - having worked as a recruiter, I can tell you that 2 years looks *good* compared to a lot of the patchwork resumes I've seen. And Claire's just beginning her professional career too, which gives you a lot of leeway: if Cubetown goes belly-up in 5 months, her resume/CV will still show that she got a relevant job within 6ish months of graduating, then lost it through no fault of her own. If they ask her about it, she can talk about all the lessons she learned (maybe including "don't take a vague job with nudist goo people who do science in the ocean"). 
> 
> Sure, maybe it wouldn't be an ideal resume. She'd want to be prepared for questions about her employment timeline. But she certainly wouldn't be up any creek without a paddle.


To be honest, ensured financing for two whole years was the best equivalent of job security I ever got in my career. I do not like that particular aspect of my job, but short contracts do not stain the CV in any way.

----------


## Morquard

> It's only clarified that "janitor" is the title of his job here at Cubetown. The joke is still that he's a particle physicist, who thought he was hired to do science, and instead he gets menial labor. Claire is probably hired to go scrub the barnacles off Cubetown's underside.


I agree, I can't explain the expression on the janitor's face any other way. If he really was a janitor, hired for a janitor position and misunderstood something, then that would be like a funny anecdote, right? But he looks like he could murder that goo girl.

----------


## Keltest

> I agree, I can't explain the expression on the janitor's face any other way. If he really was a janitor, hired for a janitor position and misunderstood something, then that would be like a funny anecdote, right? But he looks like he could murder that goo girl.


In fairness, he could just be grumpy. And especially grumpy that the HR person is talking about him during an interview.

----------


## Kish

Yeah, he's clearly not happy, but that doesn't mean he got tricked (especially not by anyone other than himself; as Moray describes it, he didn't bother to even look at the website before taking the job). That just means the job he has isn't in the field he wants to be working in. And at least one of his coworkers is a row of asterisks who finds this loudly hilarious.

Now, if (IF) Jeph later tries to hard-sell us "Moray is a sweetie who would never laugh at someone else's misfortune," then that can be filed alongside the numerous examples of "women threatening violence is endearing and funny."

----------


## Mechalich

The thing of it is, if you're actually qualified to be a particle physicist and you end up hired somewhere as a janitor through some sort of weird hiring process error (even if its your fault), why don't you just quit? There's only reason to stay as a janitor is if the pay is functionally equivalent to what you'd be making in a job you're actually qualified for somewhere else. Seeing as custodial staff usually make slightly above minimum wage (though often with overtime and good benefits since they are often unionized), that implies Cubetown is massively overpaying persons in custodial and presumably other maintenance positions. That only makes it seem more scam-riddled.

----------


## Keltest

Right, ok. No IS department yet. How on earth did these guys actually get the permits and resources to start this place before having the organization in place to actually do anything? What idiot gave them funding, and which person in need of firing signed off on everything?

----------


## georgie_leech

Maybe through some fluke of accounting, this was started by the bulk of the fortune Yay gave away.

----------


## Mechalich

> Maybe through some fluke of accounting, this was started by the bulk of the fortune Yay gave away.


Nah, it predates that, and by a lot.

Cubetown is first referenced in a conversation after Steve returns from a trip, where he says something like 'that thing the AIs are building up in Halifax is crazy.' Pretty sure that was over 2000 comics ago.

----------


## hungrycrow

Janitor guy could be sticking around long enough to get a good reference for other academic jobs. Assuming everyone else in the field hasn't already realized this place is a complete joke.

----------


## Eldan

Wow, this one is just kind of personslly insulting. Half a year of data management classes before anyone touches the research data, Jeph.

----------


## tyckspoon

> Yeah, he's clearly not happy, but that doesn't mean he got tricked (especially not by anyone other than himself; as Moray describes it, he didn't bother to even look at the website before taking the job).


Maybe he's just annoyed because he's the one who is going to have to scrub traces of whatever Moray's body is made of off that work bench later. Again. And there was a sign on it this time. The one that explicitly says no sitting, MORAY.

----------


## Ionathus

Moray's been on-panel for three updates now and I have yet to detect any distinguishing personality traits. Beyond the bog-standard "lolrandom chipper AI" chassis that describes every new character recently. 

God, I hope this is a quirky one-off scene. If Moray remains in the comic that may well drive me away for good.

----------


## Rodin

I'll admit this is outside my field here but...isn't this not what Claire was trained for?  A bunch of AIs doing research at random aren't going to need a physical reference library.  They're going to need a big honking database and a cloud-based file system like Sharepoint.  It would take an entire team of trained _programmers_ to deal with a job like this, not one reference librarian fresh out of grad school.

In any sort of real world, Claire would reject this on the spot.  She's not trained in programming that I'm aware.  Even if her skillset matches, she doesn't have the experience for it.  And even if she did think she could it she's still being asked to single-handedly do the job of an entire department.  Beyond all of that are the red flags being put up about how disorganized this company is.

And yet Jeph went through the trouble of designing a new quirky AI to do the job offer, which means she's going to take it.  I don't even know what to say here.

I'm looking at the various options for how this storyline finishes, and they are all some degree of suck.  It may be what finally drives me away from the comic.  If the comic follows them to this place, it will *definitely* drive me away.

----------


## Eldan

Yeah, data management and library science are two entirely different fields. Yes, we need data scientists in research. No, they aren't librarians. 

Also, "academia, am I right?" Screw you, Jeph.

----------


## Wraith

> The thing of it is, if you're actually qualified to be a particle physicist and you end up hired somewhere as a janitor through some sort of weird hiring process error (even if its your fault), why don't you just quit?


Apparently people are tripping over themselves to work at Cubetown. To paraphrase what Moray said herself - people aren't even reading the website, they're just going "Cubetown? Oh hell yes, I'll take whatever you'll give me!". This includes physics graduates accepting a bait-and-switch role as a janitor. Something, something, 'millennials', something.

We do not yet know WHY people are so determined to work for Cubetown. As with many things in QC, it has been kind-of-sort-of alluded to by one character, therefore it must be absolutely true throughout. "Showing" is for cowards.  :Small Tongue: 




> I'll admit this is outside my field here but...isn't this not what Claire was trained for? A bunch of AIs doing research at random aren't going to need a physical reference library. They're going to need a big honking database and a cloud-based file system like Sharepoint. It would take an entire team of trained programmers to deal with a job like this, not one reference librarian fresh out of grad school.


Nonsense! All she needs is to plug in a PC tower, connect it to the Cubetown wifi, and spend the next couple of months clicking and dragging files of 'research' into folders marked 'Physics' or 'Biology' so that people can log in and find them when they need them.

Hell, make sure that one of her co-workers is an anthro-PC, and the clicking-and-dragging part can take care of itself! Easy!

Because that's what librarians do, right? They just start off with a big, pyramid-shaped pile of books dumped on the floor, and then put them into order on some shelves and keep the place tidy, no? It's a 3-day week at most!  :Small Wink:

----------


## Gez

Everyone is fascinated by Cubetown and want to work there, but no one is interested enough to go look at the official website before they get hired.

Also the entire thing is built by lolrandom manic pixie nightmare AIs that literally don't know how to do their job, such as not knowing they need something to manage all the data they'll be theoretically generating. Despite being literally born from information technology, they don't know about information technology.

Also their workplace is, from description, a big floating cube in the Atlantic Ocean.

I would never trust the seaworthiness of something people like that built.

----------


## Radar

> Also the entire thing is built by lolrandom manic pixie nightmare AIs that literally don't know how to do their job, such as not knowing they need something to manage all the data they'll be theoretically generating. Despite being literally born from information technology, they don't know about information technology.


To be fair, we are born from biology but it does not grant us any inherent insight into it. We operate our complicated biological forms intuitively without knowing the intrinsic details.

This comparison kind of explains quite a few things about the AI in QC.

----------


## PhantomFox

Y'know, the signal I'm getting is that she's NOT going to take the job, and the drama will be over her turning down what on paper looked like a dream opportunity.  She'll feel guilty not taking a job that she had been looking for and staying in a service position, Clinton will flip his lid, and she'll worry about being a burden again.

Jeph's warning that he wasn't ending the comic was based on us assuming he was writing them out of the story, when in fact status quo is king in this instance.

----------


## Rakaydos

Claire needs to raise the problems with cubetown to her mother. Who has Yay over petting her dog. Who then volunteers/is voluntold to be Claire's intern.

YAY would be perfect for the role Claire is being hired for. And would not even need to leave town, since they have spare bodies. Yay being in 2 places at once lets both halves of the cast stay in contact naturally.

----------


## Taevyr

Well, all of the problems with the latest few comics aside, I have to admit: Jeff's really working to make Questionable Content a fitting name atm.

----------


## Mechalich

> Y'know, the signal I'm getting is that she's NOT going to take the job, and the drama will be over her turning down what on paper looked like a dream opportunity.  She'll feel guilty not taking a job that she had been looking for and staying in a service position, Clinton will flip his lid, and she'll worry about being a burden again.


If Claire turning down this job is used as a source of drama that would be extremely irritating, since we, the audience, can clearly see how profoundly reckless taking such a job would be even if every one in-universe cannot. Stories built around the kind of out-of-universe versus in-universe knowledge asymmetry tend to be the most frustrating kind. 

Additionally, at this point Cubetown is so over-the-top in its bizarreness - my mind keeps throwing up 'AI WeWork' as a comparison point - that Claire's decision to turn the job down doesn't really contain any drama. It's not her being unwilling to assert herself or to prioritize her personal needs or anything like that, it's just scam-dodging. This is particularly annoying because it's trivially easy to create real drama using Claire's job search: just give her a job offer from a library in a small town in a red state.

----------


## BRC

...yeah, Cubetown is passing the "Unbelievable" threshold for me here, even for the goofy robots comic.


Like, I could understand this if it was a bunch of wacky AI researchers on a farm somewhere breaking away from the standard corporate/university research paradigm and coming to terms with the fact that a lot of support infrastructure they relied on, like people responsible for organizing their research data in usable ways, isn't here anymore. 

But the description of Cubetown implies a LOT of money has been poured into this, despite it being apparently run by a bunch of airheads. 

It looks like I was right about what "Holistic Research" entails, doing a bunch of interdisciplinary work in the hopes that some brilliant new insights fall out, but if the whole goal is interdisciplinary work, wouldn't "How do we have people share their research data" be one of the questions you answer before you start building your sea-steading lab space?  


Maybe the Idea is that, as AI, they can quickly read each other's research notes, so the original thought was just to put everything in a big spreadsheet and all the AIs take an hour each morning to read everybody else's data from the previous day and see if it sparks any insights into their own work and now they need somebody who knows the Dewey Decimal system to organize stuff better?

I don't have trouble with the idea that they need somebody with Claire's degree, my trouble is that they got this far without realizing they'd need that.

----------


## Rodin

> Maybe the Idea is that, as AI, they can quickly read each other's research notes, so the original thought was just to put everything in a big spreadsheet and all the AIs take an hour each morning to read everybody else's data from the previous day and see if it sparks any insights into their own work and now they need somebody who knows the Dewey Decimal system to organize stuff better?
> 
> I don't have trouble with the idea that they need somebody with Claire's degree, my trouble is that they got this far without realizing they'd need that.


The problem is that Dewey Decimal (and systems like it) are designed for physical storage.  That ceases to apply once electronic filing gets involved and becomes massively irrelevant when youre dealing with AIs with permanently on Wi-Fi who wouldnt be using outmoded systems such as paper to begin with.

Claires degree (as far as Im aware) pertains to running a library or physical archive.  For this sort of endeavor you would need database engineers and designers who are going to set up a cloud-based sharing platform.

And thats without getting into the areas AIs should fix just by existing - like having your storage be a server based AI who really likes file systems and who can retrieve any data in a microsecond.

----------


## Keltest

> ...yeah, Cubetown is passing the "Unbelievable" threshold for me here, even for the goofy robots comic.
> 
> 
> Like, I could understand this if it was a bunch of wacky AI researchers on a farm somewhere breaking away from the standard corporate/university research paradigm and coming to terms with the fact that a lot of support infrastructure they relied on, like people responsible for organizing their research data in usable ways, isn't here anymore. 
> 
> But the description of Cubetown implies a LOT of money has been poured into this, despite it being apparently run by a bunch of airheads. 
> 
> It looks like I was right about what "Holistic Research" entails, doing a bunch of interdisciplinary work in the hopes that some brilliant new insights fall out, but if the whole goal is interdisciplinary work, wouldn't "How do we have people share their research data" be one of the questions you answer before you start building your sea-steading lab space?  
> 
> ...


Yeah, its not entirely implausible that somebody would throw money at this, but the only way you could get as far as they have is to actually have a plan going in, and theres none of that here.

----------


## tyckspoon

> ClaireÂs degree (as far as IÂm aware) pertains to running a library or physical archive.  For this sort of endeavor you would need database engineers and designers who are going to set up a cloud-based sharing platform.


Claire probably could flex her studies into 'overseeing and maintaining a digitally ordered information archive' if they already had one in place, especially if she was only being brought on to manage a specific sub piece or specialty field of it. That seems like it's in scope for library science, especially with a focus on modern information practices. But that's not really what Cubetown needs here right now, yeah. Claire is being asked to effectively oversee the entire -establishment- of such a thing, which would be the purview of like a department president or even C-suite level at a sane business. She's not qualified for it, not studied in anywhere near the fields that would be involved in setting it up, and it's hard to think of a contrivance where she will be successful at this if she accepts the offer regardless of that.

----------


## BRC

> Yeah, its not entirely implausible that somebody would throw money at this, but the only way you could get as far as they have is to actually have a plan going in, and theres none of that here.


What really does it for me is how Moray is acting.

This is a big endeavor, Moray is the director of sentient resources for an academic institution. Even if she's goofy and unprofessional, this place is full of academics, and hiring 101 is to have some sense of what you're looking for. "We need somebody with expertise in information science to help us organize our research data in an expandable and accessible way", great. 

This looks like Moray just searched "Librarian" on LinkedIn and started blindly emailing.


This doesn't feel like she's talking to the head of HR of a major institution, this feels like, i dunno

Like a Cafe that's only ever served drinks wants to hire a chef to design the menu, and as soon as you start going on about the best ways to acquire and store ingredients, designing meals so they go well with the coffee, or setting up a seasonal rotating menu to use in-season produce they're like "Oh yes perfect! You have exceeded my knowledge of the field, this is why we needed to hire somebody".

Which is a reasonable exchange for a coffee shop looking to start serving food. Less so for a major research institution solving what should have been a basic requirement.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Claire probably could flex her studies into 'overseeing and maintaining a digitally ordered information archive' if they already had one in place, especially if she was only being brought on to manage a specific sub piece or specialty field of it. That seems like it's in scope for library science, especially with a focus on modern information practices. But that's not really what Cubetown needs here right now, yeah. Claire is being asked to effectively oversee the entire -establishment- of such a thing, which would be the purview of like a department president or even C-suite level at a sane business. She's not qualified for it, not studied in anywhere near the fields that would be involved in setting it up, and it's hard to think of a contrivance where she will be successful at this if she accepts the offer regardless of that.


I had something like that happen once. Interviewing for a job as I ended my grad school studies, I ended up interviewing for a company which basically wanted me to build a department. I was smart enough to tell them* that they should be looking for 'effectively me, but 10-12 years down the road and who has already managed such a department somewhere else. Maybe that's informing my suspicions, but I'm wondering if this storyline is one where Claire gets to turn down a bad offer.
*Mind you, I have no idea if I would have gotten the job, but I did get the interview.

----------


## Mordokai

So what seems to be the general opinion?

Reason argues that Claire shouldn't accept this offer, under any reasonable circumstance. But Jeph strongly hinted it will happen.

Was he trolling? Or will he actually find, in his mind at least, a semi-plausible reason to go along with it?

----------


## Traab

> ...yeah, Cubetown is passing the "Unbelievable" threshold for me here, even for the goofy robots comic.
> 
> 
> Like, I could understand this if it was a bunch of wacky AI researchers on a farm somewhere breaking away from the standard corporate/university research paradigm and coming to terms with the fact that a lot of support infrastructure they relied on, like people responsible for organizing their research data in usable ways, isn't here anymore. 
> 
> But the description of Cubetown implies a LOT of money has been poured into this, despite it being apparently run by a bunch of airheads. 
> 
> It looks like I was right about what "Holistic Research" entails, doing a bunch of interdisciplinary work in the hopes that some brilliant new insights fall out, but if the whole goal is interdisciplinary work, wouldn't "How do we have people share their research data" be one of the questions you answer before you start building your sea-steading lab space?  
> 
> ...


From this comic they had a way to gather all this info on spreadsheets to start, but it quickly got so complex the ai doing that kept crashing. So in fairness they had a plan, it was just a bad one predicated on thinking it would be a great idea to do something, but not really understanding all the details behind it. As an example, opening a restaurant because you have a great menu and enough people with good service experience to take care of customers. but you forgot to consider the paperwork involved in ordering supplies, paying for them, setting up budgets, etc. You knew such things exist, after all, you have a budget for your house and groceries are included so its just scaled up right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! no. 

Honestly, at this point, like with so many AI run concerns, it feels like the end result is, they really need an "adult" to be in charge because right now everyone is a little kid running off what seems to be cool to them and not being sure how to make anything work. They need people to do the "boring" part while they run around trying to invent stuff.

----------


## BRC

> From this comic they had a way to gather all this info on spreadsheets to start, but it quickly got so complex the ai doing that kept crashing. So in fairness they had a plan, it was just a bad one predicated on thinking it would be a great idea to do something, but not really understanding all the details behind it. As an example, opening a restaurant because you have a great menu and enough people with good service experience to take care of customers. but you forgot to consider the paperwork involved in ordering supplies, paying for them, setting up budgets, etc. You knew such things exist, after all, you have a budget for your house and groceries are included so its just scaled up right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! no. 
> 
> Honestly, at this point, like with so many AI run concerns, it feels like the end result is, they really need an "adult" to be in charge because right now everyone is a little kid running off what seems to be cool to them and not being sure how to make anything work. They need people to do the "boring" part while they run around trying to invent stuff.


I'd still expect an organization of this size to have some better background questions prepared when they started looking for somebody, rather than just jumping with excitement as soon as Claire mentioned the name of her discipline. 

To continue the restaurant metaphor, it would be like you start interviewing a manager, and as soon as they ask about your shift scheduling system you go "YES! A SYSTEM FOR SCHEDULING SHIFTS! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED! PERFECT! YOU'RE HIRED!"

----------


## Shadow of the Sun

My suspenders of disbelief have fallen down, and as such I am pantsing the world.

I'm not going to stop reading, though, I want to see where this trainwreck goes.

----------


## Rakaydos

I had to get up and look really close to the screen to read the note on the table...

DO NOT SIT
This means YOU Moray.

Methinks this is a management problem.

----------


## Mechalich

> So what seems to be the general opinion?
> 
> Reason argues that Claire shouldn't accept this offer, under any reasonable circumstance. But Jeph strongly hinted it will happen.
> 
> Was he trolling? Or will he actually find, in his mind at least, a semi-plausible reason to go along with it?


Well, if Cubetown really is sitting on some giant pile of AI venture capital to the point that it pays janitors a salary normally granted to particle physicists, then the reason to take the job is simple: money, money, and more money. Take the job, keep your head down, make sure you don't do anything illegal, and move on to something else when it inevitably crashes and burns. The key is to make sure Claire gets a salary issued in dollars, not stock options or some other BS tied to Cubetown's success.

----------


## theangelJean

I wonder if this is just a roundabout way of solving the "can't get a job in the field with no experience" problem?

Claire takes this job because it pays well enough for her and Marten to move to Cubetown temporarily, wacky hijinks ensue, now she has relevant experience on her resumé and can get a better, more suitable job? Plus they get the "I moved here but it's terrible" scenario Claire was worried about?

----------


## Gez

> I'd still expect an organization of this size to have some better background questions prepared when they started looking for somebody, rather than just jumping with excitement as soon as Claire mentioned the name of her discipline. 
> 
> To continue the restaurant metaphor, it would be like you start interviewing a manager, and as soon as they ask about your shift scheduling system you go "YES! A SYSTEM FOR SCHEDULING SHIFTS! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED! PERFECT! YOU'RE HIRED!"


It's not even really her discipline. For the restaurant metaphor, it's like the interviewed chef asks about how the kitchen is, and the recruiter goes "a kitchen! genius! that's what we need! when can you start building one?"

----------


## tomandtish

> This doesn't feel like she's talking to the head of HR of a major institution, this feels like, i dunno
> 
> Like a Cafe that's only ever served drinks wants to hire a chef to design the menu, and as soon as you start going on about the best ways to acquire and store ingredients, designing meals so they go well with the coffee, or setting up a seasonal rotating menu to use in-season produce they're like "Oh yes perfect! You have exceeded my knowledge of the field, this is why we needed to hire somebody".
> 
> Which is a reasonable exchange for a coffee shop looking to start serving food. Less so for a major research institution solving what should have been a basic requirement.





> It's not even really her discipline. For the restaurant metaphor, it's like the interviewed chef asks about how the kitchen is, and the recruiter goes "a kitchen! genius! that's what we need! when can you start building one?"


Well, if there was any doubt today's comic confirms this. And while a decent number of librarians graduating these days are often doing it in Information Technologies (of the 7 librarians I know three went that route*), they are knowledgeable in USING technology to run a library, not creating it.

*I wonder if it is a University of North Texas thing. All 3 went there.

Edit: may also be a public school thing. All three work in public schools.

----------


## theangelJean

Okay, now I'm wondering if the Janitor really is a particle physicist. Who said "well, building a particle accelerator would be nice. What do you mean, what do we need for that? We need a hard vacuum facility, to start with ... Do you have any clean rooms? No, I mean an actual clean room, not a room that happens to be clean ... Not that type of vacuum... you don't even have cleaners?"

(As you can see, I'm not an actual particle physicist. I just really like neutrinos popular science. The hard vacuum strikes me as the hardest thing to build and maintain, along with the magnets. The rest is add-ons.)

----------


## Mordokai

Why am I suddenly getting a feeling this is going to be a thinly veiled excuse for getting Faye and Bubbles on board of this whole trainwreck?

----------


## VoxRationis

Oh, no, we have ourselves a cult leader, too. Let's just stay in New England for the nonce, shall we?

----------


## Eldan

OKay, I'm increasingly satisfied that this isn't meant as "delightfully quirky", but instead as "disturbingly unstable". Which is good.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

I'm increasingly reminded of Melon and her "married with a job" lifestile - simulating the form (very badly) with none of the actual understanding.

This looks to be a simillar thing, but modelling an organisation and at least some form of feedback loop so the thing can develop.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> Why am I suddenly getting a feeling this is going to be a thinly veiled excuse for getting Faye and Bubbles on board of this whole trainwreck?


Would you mind explaining that?

----------


## Mordokai

> Would you mind explaining that?


One of those "spur of the moment" ideas.

We presume Claire and Marten will move to Canada, since Jeph seems to be leaning heavily in that direction. We've seen that that would be a spectacularly bad idea, on account of everything presented to us so far, via Moray. But, as mentioned, Jeph seems to want to go that way, so if that's what he want, it will happen, regardless of red flags. Now, as it looks, Claire would need to get IS departement going, from the grounds up. Who do we know that has anything resembling the technology for that? Faye and Bubbles, of course. 

Now, what do I know about setting up an IS department? Precisely nothing. Is there any link between IS and getting defunct robots back together? I don't know, but I would presume the answer is no. Will that stop Jeph?

...I wouldn't bet on it, honestly. If he can handwave it away with, "yeah, but Bubbles was in a military and is connected AI, surely she has the gist of it!"... once again, I wouldn't put it above him.

----------


## Keltest

> One of those "spur of the moment" ideas.
> 
> We presume Claire and Marten will move to Canada, since Jeph seems to be leaning heavily in that direction. We've seen that that would be a spectacularly bad idea, on account of everything presented to us so far, via Moray. But, as mentioned, Jeph seems to want to go that way, so if that's what he want, it will happen, regardless of red flags. Now, as it looks, Claire would need to get IS departement going, from the grounds up. Who do we know that has anything resembling the technology for that? Faye and Bubbles, of course. 
> 
> Now, what do I know about setting up an IS department? Precisely nothing. Is there any link between IS and getting defunct robots back together? I don't know, but I would presume the answer is no. Will that stop Jeph?
> 
> ...I wouldn't bet on it, honestly. If he can handwave it away with, "yeah, but Bubbles was in a military and is connected AI, surely she has the gist of it!"... once again, I wouldn't put it above him.


Asking a pair of robotics engineers to put together an IS department would be approximately equivalent to asking an architect to build an engineering department on the basis of "architects build stuff, right? Build us a department!"

----------


## Mordokai

> Asking a pair of robotics engineers to put together an IS department would be approximately equivalent to asking an architect to build an engineering department on the basis of "architects build stuff, right? Build us a department!"


I imagined as much. It says a lot about my faith in Jeph's writing that I would even consider such a possibility. And yet, I did and am still not quite ready to throw it away.

----------


## hungrycrow

> I imagined as much. It says a lot about my faith in Jeph's writing that I would even consider such a possibility. And yet, I did and am still not quite ready to throw it away.


I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.

----------


## Keltest

> I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.


Didnt Faye have some sort of actual engineering degree though? Given that robots wont self repair like humans, at least not yet, a basic day to day maintenance facility only makes sense as a service, and its not that implausible that a mechanical engineer would be able to pick up the skills at the direction of somebody more familiar with the technical aspects.

----------


## hungrycrow

> Didnt Faye have some sort of actual engineering degree though? Given that robots wont self repair like humans, at least not yet, a basic day to day maintenance facility only makes sense as a service, and its not that implausible that a mechanical engineer would be able to pick up the skills at the direction of somebody more familiar with the technical aspects.


It's hard to remember across 5000 comics, but according to the wiki she went to school for sculpting? And that gave her welding skills?

Also, although robots won't self repair don't they still have artificial muscles and skin? Seems a bit more specialized than general mechanical engineering.

----------


## Keltest

> It's hard to remember across 5000 comics, but according to the wiki she went to school for sculpting? And that gave her welding skills?
> 
> Also, although robots won't self repair don't they still have artificial muscles and skin? Seems a bit more specialized than general mechanical engineering.


A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.

And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.

----------


## Vinyadan

This is encroaching Dilbert territory.

----------


## BRC

> A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.
> 
> And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.


My understanding was that Bubbles has the actual engineering skills, Faye just has some technical skills with how to operate the tools, and some aesthetic sensibilities (Relevant when you're fixing up Robot Boxers who want to look cool). All of Faye's actual "Repairing Robots" knowledge is stuff she's learned from Bubbles.


Re: Cubetown, This only way this works is if the Director is also the source of all this funding. Some AI who stumbled into obscene wealth and decided to throw it all at building this place, replacing actual expertise with money and enthusiasm.

----------


## Rodin

> A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.
> 
> And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.


Yep.  I had no problem with Faye learning to work on robots, especially of the Punchbot "tin man" variety.  It's harder to believe that she was capable of working on the more human robots we see later, like May and Millie.

The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways.  Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll.  You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.

It doesn't matter sufficiently for me to care.  Faye had a reasonable background for doing basic robot work, and was trained to do more advanced things by an expert.  6 months is a short period in real time but an eternity in comic-book time.

The whole business with Cubetown though...yeesh.  I feel certain that the comic is moving their full-time, and that Faye and Bubbles are going to come with.  Maybe not to work with Claire directly, but can you imagine Moray saying "we didn't realize we'd need basic maintenance out on the ocean, do you know anybody?"  I can.

----------


## Wraith

This has to be like, a Secret Test of Character or something, right? 

Like, Claire thinks it through and tells them, "This is nothing like the job I applied for and I'm completely out of my depth, you'll have to hire someone else" at which point Moray drops the pretence?

"Finally, thank Christ!" She goes, lighting up a cigarette. "You wouldn't believe how many of these presumptuous fleshbags said 'yes' no matter how random and insane it sounded, just for ANY job here. Now one of them is working in the cafeteria and the other two are scrubbing toilets - so, since you're not just a sycophant, how'd you ACTUALLY like to join us as a Librarian Grade 1? You'll be working for the Senior Librarian, Brian, who answers to the Libraries Director. You'd start on $26k plus housing, medical and dental, following 12 weeks probation period?"

----------


## BRC

I guess having the entire place run by cloud cookoolander goofballs IS a decent way to avoid the "How does a guy whose been writing webcomics for almost two decades now set his comic in an academic institution". Establish that these people don't know how to run a research institution either.




> Yep.  I had no problem with Faye learning to work on robots, especially of the Punchbot "tin man" variety.  It's harder to believe that she was capable of working on the more human robots we see later, like May and Millie.
> 
> The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways.  Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll.  You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.
> 
> It doesn't matter sufficiently for me to care.  Faye had a reasonable background for doing basic robot work, and was trained to do more advanced things by an expert.  6 months is a short period in real time but an eternity in comic-book time.
> 
> The whole business with Cubetown though...yeesh.  I feel certain that the comic is moving their full-time, and that Faye and Bubbles are going to come with.  Maybe not to work with Claire directly, but can you imagine Moray saying "we didn't realize we'd need basic maintenance out on the ocean, do you know anybody?"  I can.



Robots seem to take two forms, tin-cans with hard plastic or metal shells, and more humanlike synthetic flesh (Plus whatever Moray's got going on). 

I wouldn't be surprised if older/cheaper models used a mix, tin-can for limbs and torso, synthetic flesh for the face to make it appropriately expressive.

----------


## FLHerne

> The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways.  Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll.  You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.


This one makes sense to me -- May's old body was built on the cheap, so the limbs are as simple as possible, but you need facial muscles or a system of similar complexity in order to mimic human expressions. There are other robots in the comic (PunchBot, say) that don't even attempt it, but I'm willing to believe the rehab department set some minimum standard on that front to help the occupant re-integrate into society or whatever.

==

In general, I find the "wacky disorganised robots" _easier_ to accept the more of them there are...

It's beginning to seem like this is the _norm_ for robots that haven't spent most of their 'lives' immersed in human society. They apparently go straight from creation to adulthood without the years of mental development that humans have, and perhaps this is a common side effect.

That partly answers the question someone posed about why robots, not needing to eat, sleep, etc., haven't already displaced humans from the workforce - a lot of them just can't perform most jobs effectively (looking at you, Beepatrice), and they prefer to live and work in 'traditional' roles in order to learn from humans and each other about how to be functional individuals.

In turn that explains why the vast majority of embodied robots are human-standard, when the human form is frankly inconvenient. I've always wanted more arms.

Also why Melon's friends don't seem particularly concerned about her, while a human with similar behaviour would be considered mentally ill and at minimum have some kind of social care support.

----------


## Mordokai

> I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.


Thank you.




> This has to be like, a Secret Test of Character or something, right? 
> 
> Like, Claire thinks it through and tells them, "This is nothing like the job I applied for and I'm completely out of my depth, you'll have to hire someone else" at which point Moray drops the pretence?
> 
> "Finally, thank Christ!" She goes, lighting up a cigarette. "You wouldn't believe how many of these presumptuous fleshbags said 'yes' no matter how random and insane it sounded, just for ANY job here. Now one of them is working in the cafeteria and the other two are scrubbing toilets - so, since you're not just a sycophant, how'd you ACTUALLY like to join us as a Librarian Grade 1? You'll be working for the Senior Librarian, Brian, who answers to the Libraries Director. You'd start on $26k plus housing, medical and dental, following 12 weeks probation period?"


If that turns out to be the case, I will gladly issue a public apology to Jeph. Because, as cliche as that may be, it would be a pretty awesome solution to many problems presented so far.

----------


## halfeye

> Re: Cubetown, This only way this works is if the Director is also the source of all this funding. Some AI who stumbled into obscene wealth and decided to throw it all at building this place, replacing actual expertise with money and enthusiasm.


I'm coming to suspect that Yay is the director.

----------


## Keltest

Oh Claire...

----------


## geoduck

Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.

----------


## Mechalich

> Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.


Indeed. Especially, depending on the precise legal particulars and how the position is structured on the relevant official documentation, if you aren't qualified for a position you take in another country you may be _committing immigration fraud_. For example, if Cubetown submits a LMIA (Labor Market Impact Assessment) for an Information Sciences Director position to the ESDC (Employment and Social Development Canada) for which Claire is not qualified, and then Claire misrepresents her qualifications to meet the requirements, that's fraud. And Claire absolutely would collapse in front of the CBSA Officer who conducts the required entry interview for all foreign workers and end up barred from Canada for life.

----------


## PhantomFox

> Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.


I would challenge this assumption.  Everything about this scene is screaming this is a bad idea, so it's probably safe to assume that it is a bad idea, from Jeph's perspective.  So why is he setting up this as a bad decision?  If we assume the end goal is getting them to Canada, all the sketchyness would have to be resolved first, which seems hard.

If we assume they're not going to Canada, then Claire has to be convinced this is a bad idea and more importantly not worth it.  Which digs into drama about how after setting up how valuing her own needs is okay in the context of taking the job, the reverse is true in that not taking the job is also valuing her needs, though different ones she hasn't thought about yet.  This seems like a much more likely storyline.

But what about Jeph making a point of how the comic wasn't ending?  I would say that while we assumed that he meant moving to Canada wasn't a comic ending event, it's actually that the comic is not ending because they're not going to Canada in the first place.

----------


## geoduck

> I would challenge this assumption.  Everything about this scene is screaming this is a bad idea, so it's probably safe to assume that it is a bad idea, from Jeph's perspective.  So why is he setting up this as a bad decision?  If we assume the end goal is getting them to Canada, all the sketchyness would have to be resolved first, which seems hard.
> 
> If we assume they're not going to Canada, then Claire has to be convinced this is a bad idea and more importantly not worth it.  Which digs into drama about how after setting up how valuing her own needs is okay in the context of taking the job, the reverse is true in that not taking the job is also valuing her needs, though different ones she hasn't thought about yet.  This seems like a much more likely storyline.
> 
> But what about Jeph making a point of how the comic wasn't ending?  I would say that while we assumed that he meant moving to Canada wasn't a comic ending event, it's actually that the comic is not ending because they're not going to Canada in the first place.


That's all certainly a possibility, but I will be very surprised if Claire and Marten don't up having Wacky Adventures In The Cube.

----------


## Ionathus

See, this doesn't read like Jeph realizes what a trash fire Cubetown is. I think, in Jeph's mind, the ONLY problem so far is that the AIs are a little quirky and disorganized, and that would be stressful for Claire. In reality, Claire would be well within reason to run away screaming from this interview. But in some twisted way, I think this is actually supposed to be Claire demonstrating...growth? That she's...willing to jump into an unknown opportunity? And not being timid anymore?

Which...hoo boy. If that's the case, he picked the worst possible way to have Claire get her "breakthrough". Because this is a BAD JOB.

----------


## Rodin

I need to set up a macro that posts Sigh. As expected. in this thread every day.  Because thats my daily reaction.

----------


## Eldan

Welp. She really is getting into the racecar with the driver who shouts "Steering wheels! What a great idea!" 

I think I'm done with this comic now. It's been a good... 15 years?

----------


## Gez

> You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.


That's something that should probably be chalked to artistic license. It's really hard for an artist to refrain from making your character emote. Try to imagine how the strips with May would have looked if, before getting her new body, her face was some sort of static mask.

----------


## Wraith

On the one hand; young 20-somethings fresh out of college ignoring red flags to get into "their dream career that they worked so hard for" is a perfectly normal and plausible plot. Claire has been told to prioritise herself and ignore that little voice of anxiety in order to fulfil her dreams - we could have a great and enriching conversation about her not being able to tell the difference between the voice of anxiety (which she always has, all the time) and the little voice of _legitimate caution_, and where that leads her.

On the other... I don't trust Jeph with that depth of conversation. It's been years since he has written anything that couldn't be resolved with an apology and a hug, and he has trampled across all sorts of nuance in between that suggests he doesn't have any interest in learning to do otherwise.

I don't know which way this plot is going to go - Claire might take the job and be an unexpected (and undeserved?) success, or it could be a ****-show that sends her packing in 6 months when Cubetown goes broke and sinks into the ocean - but the real problem is... I don't think that the journey to either resolution is going to be interesting, or relatable, or have anything happen that exceeds the very vague summaries given above. Claire goes to Cubetown, it's hard work and exhausting, she gets a hug and a pep-talk, and then either turns it around or comes home. That's it. And it will take 4 years to get to that point. Dora and Tai will still be planning their wedding. Penny's face appears on milk cartons for a cycle, and then is replaced by Emily, and then Brun, and then she too is gone....

----------


## Taevyr

I.... think I can see the intent of "Graduate desperate to land good job takes bad offer because she's worried its the best she'll get", but it's just executed terribly: it'd be more of a challenge to find the non-red flags in that "interview", Jeph clearly has no idea how academic institutions/job interviews works and, looking at the the "academia, right?" comment, doesn't even realize that, and it's just like everything that's been annoying me (and apparently some other people) about the comic recently is turned up to 11. 

I've been reading it out of inertia with the occasional enjoyable arc for a while now, but if this becomes the new norm, I'll probably settle for occasionally rereading the older comics. I guess his patreon crowd likes it, in which case it's perfectly reasonable for him to write it, but this isn't it for me.

----------


## Ionathus

> On the one hand; young 20-somethings fresh out of college ignoring red flags to get into "their dream career that they worked so hard for" is a perfectly normal and plausible plot. Claire has been told to prioritise herself and ignore that little voice of anxiety in order to fulfil her dreams - we could have a great and enriching conversation about her not being able to tell the difference between the voice of anxiety (which she always has, all the time) and the little voice of _legitimate caution_, and where that leads her.
> 
> On the other... I don't trust Jeph with that depth of conversation. It's been years since he has written anything that couldn't be resolved with an apology and a hug, and he has trampled across all sorts of nuance in between that suggests he doesn't have any interest in learning to do otherwise.
> 
> I don't know which way this plot is going to go - Claire might take the job and be an unexpected (and undeserved?) success, or it could be a ****-show that sends her packing in 6 months when Cubetown goes broke and sinks into the ocean - but the real problem is... I don't think that the journey to either resolution is going to be interesting, or relatable, or have anything happen that exceeds the very vague summaries given above. Claire goes to Cubetown, it's hard work and exhausting, she gets a hug and a pep-talk, and then either turns it around or comes home. That's it. And it will take 4 years to get to that point. Dora and Tai will still be planning their wedding.


Pretty much exactly my thoughts. My main problem with this is that, currently, Jeph seems to think Claire is doing the right thing here. I would love to read an arc about Claire taking the first job she gets, no matter how terrible it is, because she's afraid it's the only offer she'll get, and then she experiences the fallout from that...but it seems pretty clear that's not what's happening here. She'll go to Cubetown, it'll be quirky and frustrating but ultimately fine, and we all have to live with Jeph's goo fetish from here on out. 




> Penny's face appears on milk cartons for a cycle, and then is replaced by Emily, and then Brun, and then she too is gone....


Never in my life would I have expected Jeph to get tired of Emily...let alone Brun. When you put it in context, he really is laughably fickle about which character is his favorite and what story he wants to tell. I remember the Five Years Of Brun...and then, she just kinda...vanished.

----------


## Rodin

Jeph no longer having the willingness (or possibly ability) to write conflict is the big concern for me here.  When did we last have major conflict in the comic?  Hannelore confronting her mother?  There was a brief spat between Faye and Bubbles, but I can't really count that.

Moray's design is too unique for her to be a one-off.  Ergo we're going to Cubetown.  Jeph can't write conflict (anymore), ergo it's going to all magically work out.  Like others in this thread I can see the comics for the next several years.  They write themselves.  And they're not good.

----------


## Wraith

> Never in my life would I have expected Jeph to get tired of Emily...let alone Brun. When you put it in context, he really is laughably fickle about which character is his favorite and what story he wants to tell. I remember the Five Years Of Brun...and then, she just kinda...vanished.


One theory I have seen suggested is that it's a symptom of the homogenization that has taken place - none of the characters have their own 'voice' any more, they just get dropped into whatever plot Jeph has in his head, and then speak with HIS voice regardless of context or previous inclination. So it doesn't matter which one is his 'favourite' because there's only 2 or 3 characters to choose from in total.

All AIs are wacky and inane, except for the ones that are scowly and tsundere. Everyone under the age of 24 is neurotic, anxious, and has the vocabulary of a tik-tok meme. Everyone over the age of 24 is snarky in a "this clever setup-and-retort has been carefully written and rewritten several times and can't possibly be mistaken as off-the-cuff". The only exception is the Augustus family, who are one chipmunk-esque person spread thinly across three red-haired bodies and thus flit randomly between quirky, anxious, scowly and snarky without provocation.

Jeph found himself in the position of having two characters, Brun and Claire, with similar plots - both have dead-end jobs and are aspiring for something in their chosen career. Rather than write two different stories with two resolutions, it feels like, he has instead decided to just abandon one entirely, and to run with the one that gets him the most LGBT-brownie points among his Patreons. Financially sensible, maybe, but also kind of suggests that the representation and diversity in his characters are hollow and token?

----------


## The Glyphstone

From a certain point of view, Claire is telling the truth. She is completely unqualified for the job. But from everything she has seen, everyone on Cubetown is unqualified for their jobs either. So she is the right person...

----------


## Traab

Now, hear me out on this. Its entirely possible that she COULD turn this situation around. Here is why. They seem to have basically unlimited funds, and ais willing to go out and do whatever they need to in order to make all this work. If I were claire, id spend the next however long it takes for them to get to cubetown, excessively researching what is involved with setting up this department and making lists. In turn, when she gets there, she can start telling them, "Ok, here is what I need now." Then, when she gets the first batch of materials and people/ai to form the foundation, she requests the next batch of whoever and whatever she needs. Then, once she has at least the solid framework of the department built, and she is more settled in and aware of whats needed, she can basically name someone to take over and get transferred to an actual librarian job in the company assuming they still need such. Or, it might turn out that she kind of likes her job as director of her own department. Sure it isnt being a librarian, but its hardly like she is the first person to get a degree then never get work in that field. 

Obviously I left it all very vague on details, but thats because I know nothing about how to form such a department or how detailed it would have to be to work.

----------


## Ionathus

The problem there is that Claire has no management experience and no experience building infrastructure (business infrastructure, digital infrastructure, academic infrastructure, you name it). It's really not as simple as "I'll spend my 2 weeks' notice reading online tutorials and then just ask for what I need."

I mean, it *will be* as simple as that, unfortunately. But it's not supposed to be.

----------


## Rodin

> One theory I have seen suggested is that it's a symptom of the homogenization that has taken place - none of the characters have their own 'voice' any more, they just get dropped into whatever plot Jeph has in his head, and then speak with HIS voice regardless of context or previous inclination. So it doesn't matter which one is his 'favourite' because there's only 2 or 3 characters to choose from in total.
> 
> All AIs are wacky and inane, except for the ones that are scowly and tsundere. Everyone under the age of 24 is neurotic, anxious, and has the vocabulary of a tik-tok meme. Everyone over the age of 24 is snarky in a "this clever setup-and-retort has been carefully written and rewritten several times and can't possibly be mistaken as off-the-cuff". The only exception is the Augustus family, who are one chipmunk-esque person spread thinly across three red-haired bodies and thus flit randomly between quirky, anxious, scowly and snarky without provocation.
> 
> Jeph found himself in the position of having two characters, Brun and Claire, with similar plots - both have dead-end jobs and are aspiring for something in their chosen career. Rather than write two different stories with two resolutions, it feels like, he has instead decided to just abandon one entirely, and to run with the one that gets him the most LGBT-brownie points among his Patreons. Financially sensible, maybe, but also kind of suggests that the representation and diversity in his characters are hollow and token?


I think it's some of column A and some of column B, where column B is "Jeph inserts new characters when he gets stuck/bored, then keeps the ones he finds interesting".  The library interns are the best example of this in action.  Raven got less screentime as he got bored with her, so she was assumed to be "off-panel".   Then we get the new library interns - he needs basic personalities for them, so he sticks Claire as the comically serious, Emily as the weird one, and Gabby as the straight (wo)man.  Gabby isn't interesting and has no role with Marten doing the straight man already, so she quietly vanishes.  Emily needs to fill Raven's role so she plunges headfirst into lolrandom and Raven ceases to exist.  Claire is the one he likes the most, so she gets an actual personality.  I'm _fairly_ sure the decision to make her trans came later.

When Faye and Bubbles are starting up their mechanic shop, they need a wacky first patient.  Enter Melon.  Jeph falls in love with Melon, but now there's two lolrandom people in the strip (Emily and Melon).  So Jeph quietly writes Emily out.  Claire is the sole survivor.

This pattern goes back all the way to freaking Sara.  If Jeph doesn't like a character, he simply forgets they exist.  If he's done with a character?  They don't exist either.  That's why Angus never checked up on Faye after she nearly killed herself with booze.  He literally no longer existed.  And if he likes a character?  They get their personality re-written into whatever popped into Jeph's head at the time.  Hannelore, Brun, Clinton...the list goes on.

That's why Moray is so terrifying.  She has all the hallmarks of "new character Jeph has fallen in love with".  And I don't see any way of us getting out of it unless the reaction to her is *so* negative that even he has to reconsider.

----------


## Mechalich

> The problem there is that Claire has no management experience and no experience building infrastructure (business infrastructure, digital infrastructure, academic infrastructure, you name it). It's really not as simple as "I'll spend my 2 weeks' notice reading online tutorials and then just ask for what I need."
> 
> I mean, it *will be* as simple as that, unfortunately. But it's not supposed to be.


Yeah, I'd add that even if Claire could work hard at getting up to speed in office management, Cubetown's situation is very clearly _unique_ and generalized book-based documentation regarding setting up these kind of systems might be less than useless. Also, Claire absolutely doesn't have the sort of take-charge, delegate-my-way-to-competence personality that someone charging into this system actually needs and who would make the best use of Cubetown's unusual resources. I mean, Cubetown very well might have the kind of supercharged systems-modeling AI on staff who could crank out all the software and databases a modest IS Department needs from scratch in an afternoon but Claire would never trawl through the company directory and metaphorically cold-call that person for help.

----------


## Ionathus

> Yeah, I'd add that even if Claire could work hard at getting up to speed in office management, Cubetown's situation is very clearly _unique_ and generalized book-based documentation regarding setting up these kind of systems might be less than useless. Also, Claire absolutely doesn't have the sort of take-charge, delegate-my-way-to-competence personality that someone charging into this system actually needs and who would make the best use of Cubetown's unusual resources. I mean, Cubetown very well might have the kind of supercharged systems-modeling AI on staff who could crank out all the software and databases a modest IS Department needs from scratch in an afternoon but Claire would never trawl through the company directory and metaphorically cold-call that person for help.


Exactly. It would take an immense amount of hustle and elbow grease to get this stuff up and running, and somebody with a very assertive personality and an incredibly strong drive. Dora, or Faye, or maybe Hanners if she channeled her mother? I could see it. Even though they all have even less experience with databases than Claire does (maybe excepting Hannelore), they are far better candidates on personality alone.

By contrast, Claire needed a goddamned pep talk just to *broach the subject* of a *possible* relocation with her significant other. 

Even in the best-case scenario, even if all the pieces are there...Claire is *still* not the person for this job, and portraying her acceptance of this job as positive character growth is flat-out absurd. Jeph will smooth the edges and it'll all be a quirky conflict-free flavorless sludge of a story, but in reality Claire would literally die in less than 6 months at this "job."

----------


## geoduck

> Exactly. It would take an immense amount of hustle and elbow grease to get this stuff up and running, and somebody with a very assertive personality and an incredibly strong drive. Dora, or Faye, or maybe Hanners if she channeled her mother? I could see it. Even though they all have even less experience with databases than Claire does (maybe excepting Hannelore), they are far better candidates on personality alone.


... Jeph is going to have the entire main cast be recruited to go work in the Cube, isn't he?

----------


## Mordokai

Today was the time that I quitely sighed to myself and said, oh, goodness gracious.

This can't possibly end well. Or, at the very least, *shouldn't*. And the fact that it will... I would like to say it angers me, but quite frankly, it saddens me more. Does Jeph really think so low of our intelligence that he thought nobody would notice the massive dumpster fire that all this is?

Or is he really that blind to the reality of the world?

But either way, yeah, I think I am overstaying my welcome as well. I will wait until the end of the week and after, unless something really world shattering(this time in a good way) happens. After that, I will bid it farewell.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> This can't possibly end well. Or, at the very least, *shouldn't*.


I mean, there's the linchpin isn't it? Everything here thus far has been a perfectly valid (if a little hamfisted) story about someone interviewing for a job they shouldn't accept, taking the offer (despite having absolutely valid reservations), and later either realizing it was a mistake or realizing that she's not the one to try to fix this. IFF the story progresses such that she moves to Cubetown and it ends up being a huge mistake, or she realizes she's not the one for the job and convinces the Cubetowners to go look for someone with actual experience in this process (or maybe even that she snaps and becomes a pitiless taskmaster and somehow becomes a new, confident person, showing growth), it would be a reasonable (if hardly A+ implementation) storyline. We just don't have faith that this will happen. 

I'd hesitate to put down actual odds, but I give it a 1-in-three-to-five chance that Jeph surprises us. If only because 1) Jeph has shown a lot of qualities, by no means all positive, but being completely stupid isn't one, and 2) why have all this setup about the place being a madhouse and a poor job opportunity if she's just going to move there and it work out perfectly?

----------


## Erloas

Her growth is going to come out of realizing that she doesn't need a worryingly crazy high profile job for a company that has no idea what it is doing.  She has to realize she is more important than a job title, and suddenly a much more reasonable, and local, job will come up that she can take.

----------


## Traab

> I mean, there's the linchpin isn't it? Everything here thus far has been a perfectly valid (if a little hamfisted) story about someone interviewing for a job they shouldn't accept, taking the offer (despite having absolutely valid reservations), and later either realizing it was a mistake or realizing that she's not the one to try to fix this. IFF the story progresses such that she moves to Cubetown and it ends up being a huge mistake, or she realizes she's not the one for the job and convinces the Cubetowners to go look for someone with actual experience in this process (or maybe even that she snaps and becomes a pitiless taskmaster and somehow becomes a new, confident person, showing growth), it would be a reasonable (if hardly A+ implementation) storyline. We just don't have faith that this will happen. 
> 
> I'd hesitate to put down actual odds, but I give it a 1-in-three-to-five chance that Jeph surprises us. If only because 1) Jeph has shown a lot of qualities, by no means all positive, but being completely stupid isn't one, and 2) why have all this setup about the place being a madhouse and a poor job opportunity if she's just going to move there and it work out perfectly?


Yeah I mean, he is being very open with the dialogue with even his characters stating this is way out of her wheelhouse, so im willing to give him credit because he isnt just ignoring all the red flags, or is unaware that these ARE red flags. He knows, he put them there to BE red flags, so he probably has a direction to go in that will at least make some sense. That said, this could also be a cause for drama locally as she has decided to take the job, and everyone is going to be like, "Uhhh claire? This is a VERY BAD IDEA!" And it will turn into major arguments, questioning faith in her, yadda yadda. And boom, she and marten break up, she leaves for canada, and we only see her with a few rare comic segments trying to maintain her sanity at her new job. She is basically the new steve. Or it switches to cube town entirely with her as the main character, goo girl as the whacky sidekick, and their shenanigans trying to enforce order on a chaotic workplace.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Yeah I mean, he is being very open with the dialogue with even his characters stating this is way out of her wheelhouse, so im willing to give him credit because he isnt just ignoring all the red flags, or is unaware that these ARE red flags. He knows, he put them there to BE red flags, so he probably has a direction to go in that will at least make some sense.


Indeed. He's not been shy to make clear that this is, in universe, a really bad job/bad idea. 




> That said, this could also be a cause for drama locally as she has decided to take the job, and everyone is going to be like, "Uhhh claire? This is a VERY BAD IDEA!" And it will turn into major arguments, questioning faith in her, yadda yadda. And boom, she and marten break up, she leaves for canada, and we only see her with a few rare comic segments trying to maintain her sanity at her new job. She is basically the new steve.


In theory possible, in likelihood, I somehow doubt it. Claire and Marten seem to be one of the bedrock relationships he uses to juxtapose others (even Faye-Bubbles who I doubt will break up but are coded as having more issues to sort out). If he were to break them up, I would expect more buildup of underlying problems despite them seeming like a forever-couple (Dora-Marten, although even then it seemed kinda forced). If the drama is everyone saying it is a bad idea, I expect the outcome is her resisting said advice, her and Marten going there, and eventually realizing that everyone was right.




> Or it switches to cube town entirely with her as the main character, goo girl as the whacky sidekick, and their shenanigans trying to enforce order on a chaotic workplace.


I think that is the fear -- we both lose them to the main comic environ (mind you, they were barely in focus for years already), have to put up with Wackyland robots, and maybe Claire succeeds at changing the place without evidence that she ought to (although if we go there and it does work out, I'm still rooting for it being because she snaps and starts kicking rears and taking names).

----------


## Traab

Oh god, I just started imagining how something similar to this setup but theoretically possible would go when it comes time to setup job duties and such. I mean, she is being hired to be the director of a department that she has to build from scratch. How do you define that in a contract? Like, will she be promised a budget to work with to fund what she will need to buy build or hire? Will she be placed in the org chart as a c level employee with all the benefits responsibilities and authority that it implies? or somewhere lower than that but still the director of the department? What kind of duties will she have while startup is taking place, and when will it change to oversight of the department itself? I know literally nothing about corporate infrastructure and how all this works and even im seeing more and more problems erupting. She needs to sit down with someone who has both the authority to authorize all this, and the knowledge to negotiate on the subject, as well as the attention span to do this "boring" stuff. I really do think that this could be handled with just the right amount of fridge logic to satisfy most people. Because its a comic, and the point of it isnt to dig down deep into the nitty gritty, its to tell a story that hopefully makes us laugh on a regular basis. 

Im reading a webcomic where the two main characters start off as a newspaper intern and an agent for a secret department of the us government and now they are married, she is a doctor, and he is president of the united states. I dont care too much how precisely it got to that final point, I dont need the full details of how they lobbied for support to get named on the ticket then raised enough money to run for and win office, i just needed enough to justify it happening.

----------


## Mechalich

> Indeed. He's not been shy to make clear that this is, in universe, a really bad job/bad idea.


A big part of the problem, at least for me, is the 'foreign country' complications attached to this. It is perfectly possible to recognize that a company is extremely dodgy but to go ahead and work for them anyway since the salary they're offering is pretty great. In most cases even if the company does collapse embarrassingly, so long as the employee avoids doing anything actively illegal and can justify for the future that they performed their assigned duties effectively, it'll be fine. WeWork, to use a notable recent example, laid off thousands of people when it went down, but most of those people are okay and just have a funny story to tell regarding future interviews. It's the upper level employees who got paid primarily in options rather than real money who were screwed. That's a critical point of this interview/job negotiation, Claire needs to make absolute sure Cubetown pays her in cold, hard, (Canadian) dollars, but if this were a US job that would be the only real danger.

This being in Canada though, and on an island/floating base introduces additional complications, like immigration law and Claire possibly being stuck in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of crazy AIs when everything implodes. 




> I think that is the fear -- we both lose them to the main comic environ (mind you, they were barely in focus for years already), have to put up with Wackyland robots, and maybe Claire succeeds at changing the place without evidence that she ought to (although if we go there and it does work out, I'm still rooting for it being because she snaps and starts kicking rears and taking names).


The part that's most worrying to me is that Jeph seems to think his wackyland robots are endearing, such as his 'I love Moray already' that tagged comic #4858. I don't love Moray, I find her terrifying and want to boot her as far from any and all serious responsibilities as possible. LolRandom characters can be fun, and QC has had great success with them, but they need to be doing LolRandom things in a non-serious context not engaged in serious business. Pintsize playing games with a Roomba is funny, Pintsize playing the same games with a 10-ton industrial robot is the stuff of nightmares.

----------


## BRC

The thing is, I'm usually down for the wacky robots being endearing, because while wacky, they're usually fairly competent at what they do.

Like, yeah Beeps is a ditz, but she's a ditz at her after-hours volunteer gig, she's presumably decently competent at the thing she actually gets PAID to do. It's not surprising that a volunteer organization has a member who has more enthusiasm than competence, it's a volunteer non-profit, you don't really get to pick who volunteers. 

Moray is presumably in a position of authority, and this is her Job. I could see it if she was goofy-but-competent.

----------


## Cikomyr2

She can share her worries with Hannelore.

----------


## Traab

> The thing is, I'm usually down for the wacky robots being endearing, because while wacky, they're usually fairly competent at what they do.
> 
> Like, yeah Beeps is a ditz, but she's a ditz at her after-hours volunteer gig, she's presumably decently competent at the thing she actually gets PAID to do. It's not surprising that a volunteer organization has a member who has more enthusiasm than competence, it's a volunteer non-profit, you don't really get to pick who volunteers. 
> 
> Moray is presumably in a position of authority, and this is her Job. I could see it if she was goofy-but-competent.


Didnt roko basically take over the entire ai rights group shortly after showing up? Mainly because nobody knew how to do half the things they needed? Thats why I kind of felt this was familiar, "crazy ais being whacky want to run a company but need a stern adult figure to keep control over and be exasperated by them." It seems to be at a higher level this time, with them being just a bit better than freaking melon at controlling themselves, but thats not a high bar to clear.

----------


## BRC

> Didnt roko basically take over the entire ai rights group shortly after showing up? Mainly because nobody knew how to do half the things they needed? Thats why I kind of felt this was familiar, "crazy ais being whacky want to run a company but need a stern adult figure to keep control over and be exasperated by them." It seems to be at a higher level this time, with them being just a bit better than freaking melon at controlling themselves, but thats not a high bar to clear.


Yeah, but that was a volunteer organization with, like, two members and a budget from a dead lady's will, meaning they're not actually accountable to anybody.

----------


## hungrycrow

Roko walked into an AI rights group with no experience and now they're crushing corporations because Roko tells it like it is. Jeph might be intending these red flags to actually be red flags, but it would be in keeping with the rest of the comic for Claire to be wildly successful anyway.

----------


## Keltest

I think the real tragedy here is that nobody has any faith left in Jeph to actually pull this off in a way that both makes sense and is satisfying.

----------


## Wraith

I'm honestly struggling to interpret Panel 5.

I assume that it's supposed to be an anime "Thing" - the character is asked an innocuous question, and they answer with exaggerated solemnity and seriousness to emphasize just how seriously they believe in the answer.

But the blank, black background just makes it look like Claire is having an existential crisis. Someone asks her about her cute boyfriend - she doesn't smile, she apparently hesitates in answering, and The All-Consuming Black Void opens behind her. It puts me in mind of the Dolly-Pull scene from the movie _Jaws_, which indicates a terrible sinking feeling as the character realises something horrible is occurring....

That's certainly NOT what was intended, but Jeph has shown 'ominous' and 'determinedly sincere' in his art before, and this is such a downgrade.

----------


## VoxRationis

I think it's not necessarily something that is generally ominous, but indicates a darkening of Claire's mood as she reevaluates the pros and cons of the situation in light of the new fact that Moray just openly made a very unprofessional inquiry into an avenue that she has no right to explore.

Edit: Also, is anyone else surprised by the fact that Moray is apparently a membrane-bound sack of aqueous fluid, rather than some sort of body of self-assembling viscous substance of homogenous density?

----------


## Morquard

Ok, I haven't posted in a while, because what was there to say that others hadn't said way better?

I took this recent development as a sign to reevaluate why I actually still read this comic. It started out as a cute, funny, slice of life comic of twenty-somethings. I was a twenty something at the time I started reading. I could relate, not to all but some. They had a funny, quirky, chaotic robot. Cool. I wished I had one of those. Slowly plotlines got more complex, and that was fine. They were interesting for the most part.

But at some point it jumped the shark. I didn't notice at the time, or for a long time after. Thinking back, I think, for me it was around the time when every new AI was suddenly in a fully functioning humanoid body, when just a while before Hanners had been sent a super advanced prototype by her dad for that, and everyone agreed it was super cringy. but then it became the norm in like 3 months. And in the case of Bubbles or Roko, also retroactively confirmed to have been the case for years. New characters got introduced. Old ones faded. Ok that happens in RL so makes sense it happens in a slice of life comic. But most of the new ones were... lacking.

It's not to say I didn't enjoy the comic at all. Or that I hate all the robots. I liked the Faye/Bubbles story as they got together. Going from co-workers and friends to lovers. It would have been interested to explore the opposite with the May and Sven relationship, going from **** buddies to an actual relationship, but that got dropped the moment May had her fetishized tall, big-titted body as well. Brun could have had some interesting dynamic with Clinton and Elliot, maybe even the comics first thrupple. But the way it came across was that apparently "I'm autistic" also means "will never ever love someone". Speaking of Elliot, when was the last we saw him? Once he got together with Clinton, after that apparently that plotline also lost interest for Jeph.

So yes, I realized, till now I read it mostly out of habit. It's part of my daily routine, open my Webcomics folder, check them. It's in there. It's #2 actually, right after OotS, a position it once warranted but not anymore for a long time. It was honestly more hassle to remove it, than not, and sometimes there were interesting stuff still happening. Also I enjoy this thread here, talking about QC, so I didn't wanna loose that either.

But now... this. I don't even know how to describe Goo girl. I'm trying not to kinkshame here. I know some people are into that, or like it, and that's fine and I respect that, but it isn't for me. I thought I at least give it till the end of the current arc to see where this is going. Maybe it will be resolved as the "This is a terrible idea lets never talk about Cubetown again". I have my doubts, but hey, its possible. I at least wanted to give it the chance.

But in today's comic with her essentially ******* during an interview at the thought of someone elses boyfriend (or what else is "I just sprung a leak" supposed to mean?) I think I'm done.

I'll probably still check in to this thread every now and then, maybe when it seems that things have "stabilized again" or something, I might give it a new chance.

Anyway, it was a fun ride, here in the forum at least. Always enjoyed your opinions and sometimes argument. But I'm gonna delete that bookmark now.

----------


## Mechalich

> I think it's not necessarily something that is generally ominous, but indicates a darkening of Claire's mood as she reevaluates the pros and cons of the situation in light of the new fact that Moray just openly made a very unprofessional inquiry into an avenue that she has no right to explore.


Very unprofessional, also, it represents a failure of her duty as director of SR to tell Claire, upon mentioning a boyfriend, that unless her boyfriend has dual citizenship he won't be able to join her in Canada.

----------


## hungrycrow

> Very unprofessional, also, it represents a failure of her duty as director of SR to tell Claire, upon mentioning a boyfriend, that unless her boyfriend has dual citizenship he won't be able to join her in Canada.


All he has to do is walk in and mention some concept relating to running a company and he'll have a job just like that.

----------


## Wraith

> I think it's not necessarily something that is generally ominous, but indicates a darkening of Claire's mood as she reevaluates the pros and cons of the situation in light of the new fact that Moray just openly made a very unprofessional inquiry into an avenue that she has no right to explore.


That's fair. I suppose it could be interpreted as the proverbial straw that broke the camel - Claire can put up with inanity and unprofessional AI nonsense at work, but only up to the point where it intrudes upon her personal life. If Moray pisses herself in excitement because Claire has a boyfriend, just imagine how inappropriate her reaction would be to finding out that Claire is trans? 

Both subjects - Claire's relationship status and potential medical needs, particularly when relocating to an artificial island with unknown lodging availability - are potentially relevant information to a HR professional, but absolutely NOT when it looks that it might be taken only as tweenage gossip fodder.

Or it could still be an anime thing, just an impromptu and out of place punchline for an unfunny joke. If tomorrow's strip doesn't mention it, I will assume as much. I stand by my complaint that we can't tell just by looking, because it's out of place, not funny and just... odd.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> The part that's most worrying to me is that Jeph seems to think his wackyland robots are endearing, such as his 'I love Moray already' that tagged comic #4858. I don't love Moray, I find her terrifying and want to boot her as far from any and all serious responsibilities as possible. LolRandom characters can be fun, and QC has had great success with them, but they need to be doing LolRandom things in a non-serious context not engaged in serious business. Pintsize playing games with a Roomba is funny, Pintsize playing the same games with a 10-ton industrial robot is the stuff of nightmares.


I think I figured out why I still have hope for this, and coming up with 'Wackyland' is what did it. That comes from a Tiny Toons (which I totally didn't watch in high school, because that would have been uncool) episode where the female generic everyperson character decides they want to live in a place called Wackyland where everything is perpetually lolrandom. right up until they'd been there for a day or two. They finally snap and tell everyone to get some self-control (fighting words in those parts) and gets chased back home. There are similar plots in any number of shows, rarely quite so blunt, but there. I think possibly this is the plot Jeph intends to be writing. Claire will get there and either snap (either having to leave or actually yelling some positive work behavior into folks), or realize she's not up to the job and leave/call in Hanners/Hanner's Mom or similar better-suited individual. Jeph may love Moray already, but it's possible he loves her as a foil. 





> Didnt roko basically take over the entire ai rights group shortly after showing up? Mainly because nobody knew how to do half the things they needed? Thats why I kind of felt this was familiar, "crazy ais being whacky want to run a company but need a stern adult figure to keep control over and be exasperated by them." It seems to be at a higher level this time, with them being just a bit better than freaking melon at controlling themselves, but thats not a high bar to clear.


The difference is that, while not specifically skilled at their job, Roko was a highly competent* organized, by-the-book beat cop and 'adult in the room' who brought the basic structure they needed to the group (the whole level-up in advocacy skills being pretty standard sitcom overnight expertise I understand why people might dislike, but at least Jeph was following an established trope). Claire, on the other hand, doesn't really seem tempermentally suited to being the person to fix this situation (so why people are afraid she'll just go there and fix everything, and it won't seem deserved/earned/whatever).
*Not sure if we hold her failures in the Robot fighting ring case against her




> I think the real tragedy here is that nobody has any faith left in Jeph to actually pull this off in a way that both makes sense and is satisfying.


I'm holding out hope. I disagree with the above assertion that the strip has truly jumped the shark. It's more akin to later seasons (choose your own cutoff) _Simpson_ -- it never was always good, and it isn't always bad now. Nor were all the initial characters and characterizations great (Hanners got an actual rework, for example) and all the new ones bad (both Bubbles and Faye with Bubbles seem solid, for instance). It's just that the ratio is slowly sliding towards more unsatisfying plots, developments, and new characters.

----------


## The Glyphstone

> Im reading a webcomic where the two main characters start off as a newspaper intern and an agent for a secret department of the us government and now they are married, she is a doctor, and he is president of the united states. I dont care too much how precisely it got to that final point, I dont need the full details of how they lobbied for support to get named on the ticket then raised enough money to run for and win office, i just needed enough to justify it happening.


You forgot to mention the ghost of Benjamin Franklin helping her cheat the stock market.

----------


## Traab

> You forgot to mention the ghost of Benjamin Franklin helping her cheat the stock market.


Well yeah but I didnt want to go too deep into the insanity of the comic or else id still be writing my post and only now get to the part where the presidents wife lets ameila earheart take over her body so she can go to the afterlife to investigate what a representative of the vatican told her. The amazing this is, the story actually makes sense if you read the whole thing.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Fair. AGAHF really is a good comic that somehow makes the utter insanity work, I'm surprised it doesn't have a thread of its own.

----------


## Radar

> Well yeah but I didnt want to go too deep into the insanity of the comic or else id still be writing my post and only now get to the part where the presidents wife lets ameila earheart take over her body so she can go to the afterlife to investigate what a representative of the vatican told her. The amazing this is, the story actually makes sense if you read the whole thing.


What is the name of the comics, if I may ask? This complete craziness that makes sense in the context reminds me of the great Dr. McNinja.

----------


## The Glyphstone

> What is the name of the comics, if I may ask? This complete craziness that makes sense in the context reminds me of the great Dr. McNinja.


A Girl and Her Fed  (Starts Here.)

----------


## Radar

> A Girl and Her Fed  (Starts Here.)


Thank you!  :Small Smile:

----------


## Vinyadan

> You forgot to mention the ghost of Benjamin Franklin helping her cheat the stock market.


Was that before Dracula stole his head?

----------


## Ionathus

> I think I figured out why I still have hope for this, and coming up with 'Wackyland' is what did it. That comes from a Tiny Toons (which I totally didn't watch in high school, because that would have been uncool) episode where the female generic everyperson character decides they want to live in a place called Wackyland where everything is perpetually lolrandom. right up until they'd been there for a day or two. They finally snap and tell everyone to get some self-control (fighting words in those parts) and gets chased back home. There are similar plots in any number of shows, rarely quite so blunt, but there. I think possibly this is the plot Jeph intends to be writing. Claire will get there and either snap (either having to leave or actually yelling some positive work behavior into folks), or realize she's not up to the job and leave/call in Hanners/Hanner's Mom or similar better-suited individual. Jeph may love Moray already, but it's possible he loves her as a foil.


Yeah, if that winds up being what happens, put my prediction down for "I get it. I ain't laughin', but I get it."

My problem with the prospect of a weekslong visit to Cubetown is that, if Moray is the representative sample, I don't *want* entire weeks of a "wow this place is a trashfire" facility tour followed by Claire having some big epiphany _that the whole audience spotted weeks ago_. My absolute least favorite thing in fiction is when the characters are just muddling through to the obviously correct decision, but it takes them agonizingly longer than it takes the audience and we are given nothing more interesting to watch in the meantime. That's where you get the "yelling at the screen" people do while watching horror movies, and while the tension of a good anticipated jumpscare is one thing, I don't have the patience for it in this context. 




> Well yeah but I didnt want to go too deep into the insanity of the comic or else id still be writing my post and only now get to the part where the presidents wife lets ameila earheart take over her body so she can go to the afterlife to investigate what a representative of the vatican told her. The amazing this is, the story actually makes sense if you read the whole thing.


God, this makes me miss Dr. McNinja. Actual bonkers plots that weren't trying to pass themselves off as something they weren't, yet somehow still held to a fairly consistent world and tone and character arcs. 




> What is the name of the comics, if I may ask? This complete craziness that makes sense in the context reminds me of the great Dr. McNinja.


Lol jinx

----------


## Rodin

> Yeah, if that winds up being what happens, put my prediction down for "I get it. I ain't laughin', but I get it."
> 
> My problem with the prospect of a weekslong visit to Cubetown is that, if Moray is the representative sample, I don't *want* entire weeks of a "wow this place is a trashfire" facility tour followed by Claire having some big epiphany _that the whole audience spotted weeks ago_. My absolute least favorite thing in fiction is when the characters are just muddling through to the obviously correct decision, but it takes them agonizingly longer than it takes the audience and we are given nothing more interesting to watch in the meantime. That's where you get the "yelling at the screen" people do while watching horror movies, and while the tension of a good anticipated jumpscare is one thing, I don't have the patience for it in this context.


My issue is the suspension of disbelief.  Absurdist comedy is one thing, but there is a point you reach where NOBODY can be that stupid or incompetent.  Beeps already crosses that line for me - there's ditzy, and then there's "lol I'm an AI who doesn't know how to use a computer or any other form of office equipment".

If I had to reference someone in-comic it would be Raven.  Raven was comically dense most of the time, but in her element (the dating scene) she was far more competent than Dora or Faye.  There also wasn't any indication that she was a bad barista.  She didn't have common sense but was a believable human being.  I know somebody like her.

Beep (and now Moray) are unbelievably incompetent.  *Cubetown* is unbelievably incompetent.  You can write a continuity-free comic (like Dilbert) in that environment.  It's much harder to swallow when there's any kind of ongoing story, because the incompetence should have consequences.

----------


## Cikomyr2

Meh. Sounds like an arc where Marten and Claire meet people and have funny discussions with people. maybe Raven and Emily make cameo with the crazy AI colony.

And then we are back at the cafe of doom because Jeph got bore and did what he wanted to do, explore what he wanted to explore, he'll go elsewhere when hes done. Just like we did with any other exotic locations visited.

----------


## Taevyr

I have to say, while I'm not a fan of hatesubs (and this seems to somewhat be one), whoever makes these alternate comics has been killing it with the recent ones: the self-aware ridiculousness makes it a lot better

https://i.redd.it/fpji9stcark91.png

https://i.redd.it/i5ks6z9k8yk91.png

----------


## Keltest

Gotta sat, Moray being an amoral manipulator picking from the bottom of the barrel because that's all they can afford makes so much more sense than what we got.

----------


## Gnoman

This is starting to feel like the intended arc is going to be "Claire will feel immense pressure to take a job that she fully realizes she should not be taking".

----------


## Mechalich

One thing the reddit parody has correct is that Claire really needs to ask about salary and benefits. It is perfectly possible for the money to be good enough that Claire should take the job even with the expectation that either Cubetown will collapse or she simply won't be able to take the zaniness of working there long-term, while at the same time it's possible for that not to be true.

----------


## Erloas

It seems like people are forgetting that they've had a week to read and analyze what is going on, while in-universe we're at maybe 2 minutes of time passing.  Even experienced people will have a hard time judging a situation mid phone call, a new college grad with almost no real world experience is going to take a bit of time to really put things together.  *Especially* bringing up things like pay and benefits 60 seconds into an initial phone interview is out of place.

----------


## Keltest

> It seems like people are forgetting that they've had a week to read and analyze what is going on, while in-universe we're at maybe 2 minutes of time passing.  Even experienced people will have a hard time judging a situation mid phone call, a new college grad with almost no real world experience is going to take a bit of time to really put things together.  *Especially* bringing up things like pay and benefits 60 seconds into an initial phone interview is out of place.


I mean, if somebody told me they don't have a department for me and they weren't specifically hiring for a director to establish one, I would hang up on the spot. They don't have it together enough for me to even trust that my paychecks will get signed.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> *Especially* bringing up things like pay and benefits 60 seconds into an initial phone interview is out of place.


Jobs are for money, otherwise they'd be hobbies. If an interviewer can't handle being asked normal questions like "What sort of benefits do I get out of this, monetarily?", you run. You run and you don't look back and you find somebody else to work for, somebody with something other than celery between their ears. It's weird to me that people could view a job as anything other than transactional, even if it's a job you really enjoy doing.

----------


## Rodin

> I mean, if somebody told me they don't have a department for me and they weren't specifically hiring for a director to establish one, I would hang up on the spot. They don't have it together enough for me to even trust that my paychecks will get signed.


They would have lost me at "we're hiring you to create a department when you have zero experience or knowledge on how to do so".  Even if the company had it together it would be clear that they chose poorly when picking my name out.

Pay was asked about _ immediately_ on being told I passed the interview in all 3 of my post-university jobs.  And not by me - by the interviewer.  Because that transaction has to be settled first before any further discussion can take place.  They have to want me, and I have to want what they're willing to pay.

On the other hand, I can understand Jeph not going into pay here.  We've never had a dollar amount given for the jobs any of the cast has, and writing around that while discussing salary would be awkward.  If Moray weren't too ditzy to breathe we could have cut away from the telephone call and found out the pay offer was satisfactory by exposition without giving details.  As it is I think Claire could have asked for (raises pinky) one million dollars and Moray would have blindly accepted.

----------


## Taevyr

Just read 4866


I know we're only 20 pages in, but I really feel "Why are AI *like* this?" would be a perfect next thread title. Also, some proof that at least Jeph's self-aware about it, though it clearly amuses him plenty.

Also, Dora shouting down Hanners like that feels rather extreme, even for her. Abuse as humor has been a thing, unfortunately, but still.

----------


## Mr. Random

I think I finally get why the AIs are like this.... and it's already got in-comic evidence.

They're kids.

They were literally born less than a decade ago. Yay had a whole mini-arc about this with Aurelia.

They're super-powerful children with next to no emotional maturity because that only really comes with time and patience. And.... they're literally 10 years old. At MOST.

----------


## Ionathus

Best comment from another forum in reaction to today's comic:

(Jeph's caption) "They're like that because it's fun to write"
"Ain't fun for me to _read,_ though"

----------


## Daywalker1983

> Best comment from another forum in reaction to today's comic:
> 
> (Jeph's caption) "They're like that because it's fun to write"
> "Ain't fun for me to _read,_ though"


Id go as far as saying i felt trolled by Jeph's comment.

----------


## Wraith

This could be funny, if it weren't for the fact that this entire group of people that Marten is referring to as 'Like This' (aka, wacky, stupid, insensible, inane, and annoying) weren't also Jeph's go-to stand in for ethnic minorities, the disabled, and those who were being crushed under implied civil rights violations.

I don't think that's even a particularly long reach. AIs are coded as QC's resident unique ethnic group, and here we are, watching white people complain about them being 'Like This'. And one of them is preparing to head over to their homeland, with the intention of teaching them how to be 'better'.

Even if it is a little reach, _how can someone write this and not notice the parallels?_

----------


## Traab

> Just read 4866
> 
> 
> I know we're only 20 pages in, but I really feel "Why are AI *like* this?" would be a perfect next thread title. Also, some proof that at least Jeph's self-aware about it, though it clearly amuses him plenty.
> 
> Also, Dora shouting down Hanners like that feels rather extreme, even for her. Abuse as humor has been a thing, unfortunately, but still.


I took that as not shouting, but emphatic speech *Dont you dare!* versus DONT YOU DARE! Stern, not loud. And yes, AIs are children, that fits everything just fine. Cubetown are a bunch of kids with access to everything that want to learn everything. And like I said in an earlier post, they need someone to be the stern adult figure who keeps things on track. As for the white mans burden parallels, last time it was a fellow ai doing the job, so I think thats more of a reach than can be counted.

----------


## Keltest

> Best comment from another forum in reaction to today's comic:
> 
> (Jeph's caption) "They're like that because it's fun to write"
> "Ain't fun for me to _read,_ though"


Never have I felt such kinship with some rando on the internet whose post I havent even directly read.

----------


## Ionathus

> This could be funny, if it weren't for the fact that this entire group of people that Marten is referring to as 'Like This' (aka, wacky, stupid, insensible, inane, and annoying) weren't also Jeph's go-to stand in for ethnic minorities, the disabled, and those who were being crushed under implied civil rights violations.
> 
> I don't think that's even a particularly long reach. AIs are coded as QC's resident unique ethnic group, and here we are, watching white people complain about them being 'Like This'. And one of them is preparing to head over to their homeland, with the intention of teaching them how to be 'better'.
> 
> Even if it is a little reach, _how can someone write this and not notice the parallels?_


Yeah, it might be a bit of a reach, but I certainly see where you're coming from. A common complaint I see about QC, both on this board and others, is that Jeph just decides what topic he wants to write about and then jams his characters into the roles required. A social issue? Find a demographic - ANY demographic - to depict as marginalized. A character trait you want to explore? Give it to one of the cast...even if they've barely or even never displayed that trait until now. You're suddenly obscenely wealthy due to Patreon? Give some random characters in your comic amazing-paying jobs of their dreams - and don't worry about whether that invalidates May's struggles to afford a new body, or Dora's long-term grind as hardworking owner of CoD. Bet you anything Claire's gonna be pulling 6 figures in her first job out of college in CubeTown.

But yeah, back to the "reach" in question: I'm sure he didn't intend it that way. But that's the problem. He doesn't seem to ever intend anything beyond the last 50 comics anymore. I used to be able to follow long-running plots or themes in QC, and enjoy them. Now they barely exist.

----------


## Wraith

> But yeah, back to the "reach" in question: I'm sure he didn't intend it that way. But that's the problem. He doesn't seem to ever intend anything beyond the last 50 comics anymore. I used to be able to follow long-running plots or themes in QC, and enjoy them. Now they barely exist.


Thank you, I'm glad that didn't come across as me just trying to vilify Jeph, because that wasn't the intention and I agree with what you have said; make up a joke, squeeze it in, and disregard any context that came before it. It can work, but only up to the point that the audience goes along with it.

Not even for the first time, which to be honest is what made me think of the parallels. It's like, Jeph also struggles to find the sweet point between making jokes with characters who have mental illnesses, and making jokes ABOUT characters with mental illness. 

Brun, for example - sometimes she picks one word out of a sentence, and goes on a long and strange tangent to end up with a fact about neutron stars - an exchange which I recall being highly praised as relatable to readers on the autism spectrum, because that's what it's like for them in real life. 
And then at other times, she pulls a shotgun on Clinton because 'lol social interaction, amirite?'.

Sure, you an make jokes about some unpleasant things, like Hannelore's OCD, Faye's alcoholism, and Dora's neurosis - dark/gallows humour can be a great commentary as well as being morbidly entertaining. But there comes a point where it comes up so often, and we're expected to disregard so much of the older context, that its starting to feel uncomfortably like the humour of the comic only knows how to punch downwards.

----------


## Mechalich

> I took that as not shouting, but emphatic speech *Dont you dare!* versus DONT YOU DARE! Stern, not loud. And yes, AIs are children, that fits everything just fine. Cubetown are a bunch of kids with access to everything that want to learn everything. And like I said in an earlier post, they need someone to be the stern adult figure who keeps things on track. As for the white mans burden parallels, last time it was a fellow ai doing the job, so I think thats more of a reach than can be counted.


The problem with Cubetown is that there should have been adults in the room _ages ago_. You can't just build a giant floating facility off the coast, no matter how much money you have. There's a giant pile of permitting, environmental impact, safety approvals, and other paperwork that has to be handled first. If the AIs tried to pull something like this without going through the proper channels, the Royal Canadian Navy is going to show up with a frigate.

I've mentioned several times with regard to this that just hiring Claire without breaking the law requires meeting a certain floor of operational functionality, and right now Cubetown is way below that.

----------


## PhantomFox

My bet is that the 'Director' mentioned earlier is the adult in the room, but tries to be as hands off.  Or knows that Moray is pants on head 'quirky' and this is the one position where she can do the least damage.  Or at least the one they're currently trying, with 'incidents' happening with everything else, and there being some reason they just can't get rid of her.

----------


## Traab

> My bet is that the 'Director' mentioned earlier is the adult in the room, but tries to be as hands off.  Or knows that Moray is pants on head 'quirky' and this is the one position where she can do the least damage.  Or at least the one they're currently trying, with 'incidents' happening with everything else, and there being some reason they just can't get rid of her.


She is the directors companion ai and he/she refuses to fire their best friend. Head canon accepted.

----------


## Wraith

A theory on Reddit is that The Director _is_ Cubetown, or at least the derrick on which it's built, in the same way that Station is both a place and a projection of a personality.

I kind of like that idea. Being a Super-AI would explain its immense power and resources, but also why it lacks a lot of basic knowledge about human beings, up to and including what they are and what they do, and the vast incongruities that led it to appoint Moray as an SR professional.

----------


## The Glyphstone

It could apparently be crashed by an excessively large spreadsheet. I'm not sure if that is a point for or against the super-AI status.

----------


## Mobius Twist

As was said earlier in the comic, the vast majority of a normal AI chassis's processing power goes to maintain its sentience, such that the result of the typical AI's thought patterns is equivalent to human baseline intelligence (give or take certain optimizations).

Admittedly, a fully-automated oil derrick _does_ have room for more compute resources, it's also got all those "oil derrick" functions  to run. And don't forget the dome!

----------


## theangelJean

I was wondering if the Director was that floating black slab that emits a low hum. It would explain why they picked out Claire. Also, if Faye and Bubbles are going to get pulled in as some people here are speculating, well, it has also had work done by Faye.

Is it the adult in the room? It goes to coffee shops by itself, apparently...

Edit: I never noticed before that it appeared just after Hannelore called down a nuclear strike from Station. That's probably how Jeph thought of it, though, so there may not be an actual in-story connection.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Why's everyone suddenly obsessed with putting Claire in charge of stuff?

----------


## Ionathus

Dora leaving to go with Marten to tell Tai that he needs a few days off...why? Why does Dora need to go with? It feels obvious that she's angling to talk with him in private about it. No clue what her take on it is gonna be.

----------


## Shogo

Well, she could just be using this as an excuse to blow off work and visit her fiance.

----------


## FLHerne

Or to leave Claire in charge to see how she copes with managing a brand-new department coffee shop.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> It could apparently be crashed by an excessively large spreadsheet. I'm not sure if that is a point for or against the super-AI status.


Any sufficiently advanced spreadsheet cant be prevented to crash by computing power.

That's Clarke's First Law of the Finance Industry. Speaking from knowledge.

----------


## Wraith

> Dora leaving to go with Marten to tell Tai that he needs a few days off...why? Why does Dora need to go with? It feels obvious that she's angling to talk with him in private about it. No clue what her take on it is gonna be.


I want it to be Dora repeating the 'prioritise your needs' speech to Marten. She herself found out the hard way that he can be too much of a pushover, and no matter how much Claire wants a respectable librarian job, HER needs do not automatically supersede HIS needs. It would be a nice gesture, and one that would both show growth on Dora's part, and an indication that Dora and Marten's friendship has endured beyond more than free coffee.

And yet, I can't help but fear that she is instead going to repeat the 'Claire has to prioritise her needs' speech to Marten, and make it clear that it is his job as Boyfriend to support her no matter what stupid, obviously red-flagged decisions she makes. 

Something about Dora, particularly lately - she talked over Marigold with vaguely empowering platitudes, and insisted that Claire had to put herself first (when already doing so is one of her main faults, as per her arguments with Clinton) - gives me the impression that her new character is that she's cheerleading EVERYTHING regardless of context or legitimate concerns, and I'm haunted by the idea that her 'prioritise your needs' speech is only allowed for some people and not others.  :Small Confused:

----------


## Ionathus

Someone pointed this out recently and your post reminded me: what exactly does Marten get out of his relationship with Claire? What have we seen her give to him? 

Granted, some people really are just very even-keel and mainly care about companionship. And Claire is one of Jeph's favorites so it makes sense he does Claire-focused storylines more often. She's in a turbulent phase of life so it makes sense she needs more support. But I can't help but notice that Claire really doesn't seem to have supported/helped/encouraged Marten on...anything ever, really. Whenever she does, it's not actually about him, it's about pushing him to do the things SHE wants for him.

Am I forgetting something?

----------


## Keltest

> Someone pointed this out recently and your post reminded me: what exactly does Marten get out of his relationship with Claire? What have we seen her give to him? 
> 
> Granted, some people really are just very even-keel and mainly care about companionship. And Claire is one of Jeph's favorites so it makes sense he does Claire-focused storylines more often. She's in a turbulent phase of life so it makes sense she needs more support. But I can't help but notice that Claire really doesn't seem to have supported/helped/encouraged Marten on...anything ever, really. Whenever she does, it's not actually about him, it's about pushing him to do the things SHE wants for him.
> 
> Am I forgetting something?


She was his date to his dad's wedding I believe, before they were formally together. He was the one who asked her out, so presumably what he gets is indeed mostly her presence and companionship.

But frankly, Martin doesn't do anything on screen, so its really hard to do more than wildly speculate.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

Marten hasn't done anything in the comic except react to other peoples' relationships for a really long time, it feels like.

----------


## Rodin

> Marten hasn't done anything in the comic except react to other peoples' relationships for a really long time, it feels like.


Which feels intentional to me, same way we don't see the details of Tai and Dora's relationship outside of the wedding stuff.  Marten was content with his life and didn't have interesting things going on, so he fell into a supporting role for Claire.

I guess don't see the relationship as lopsided the same way others do?  Marten's happy with Claire and that's all that matters.  The one thing he should be doing (pursuing a career) is the one thing Claire has specifically brought up.

----------


## Mechalich

> I guess don't see the relationship as lopsided the same way others do?  Marten's happy with Claire and that's all that matters.  The one thing he should be doing (pursuing a career) is the one thing Claire has specifically brought up.


I would say that Marten doesn't need to be pursuing a career so much as pursuing financial stability. It's perfectly reasonable to live a fine and happy life without finding any sort of fulfillment in one's job. Marten's work as a library tech doesn't make him miserable or stress him out or anything, so there's nothing wrong with that kind of work for him accept for the salary. His current pay isn't enough to offer any way to build actual wealth or survive an emergency and there's no career ladder to climb offering future prospects. 

Of course, part of the problem is that in order to pursue anything career oriented Marten must leave Northampton. The city is simply too small for him to get any sort of music-related job there. What he should do - and probably should have done ages ago - is go work for his Dad, who as a fancy nightclub owner is exactly the sort of person with connections that could advance Marten.

----------


## Keltest

> I want it to be Dora repeating the 'prioritise your needs' speech to Marten. She herself found out the hard way that he can be too much of a pushover, and no matter how much Claire wants a respectable librarian job, HER needs do not automatically supersede HIS needs. It would be a nice gesture, and one that would both show growth on Dora's part, and an indication that Dora and Marten's friendship has endured beyond more than free coffee.


Well, not a speech as such, but this seems fairly accurate so far. It is good to see somebody making sure both partner's emotional needs are being met. And also, fair play on making sure they attend the wedding.

----------


## Traab

I wouldnt be surprised to find marten shanghaied into working for cubetown himself in short order anyways. They seem to need people for everything. He could literally go "Hey, this needs to be done" talking about something minor like light bulbs being burnt out and goo girl will go "Omg thats brilliant! Be our facilities manager!" Suddenly its martens job to keep everything in cubetown functional or hire people who can.

----------


## Mechalich

> I wouldnt be surprised to find marten shanghaied into working for cubetown himself in short order anyways. They seem to need people for everything. He could literally go "Hey, this needs to be done" talking about something minor like light bulbs being burnt out and goo girl will go "Omg thats brilliant! Be our facilities manager!" Suddenly its martens job to keep everything in cubetown functional or hire people who can.


Except for the part where Marten can't move to Canada as things presently stand. 'Boyfriend' is a term completely without legal status. As far as the CBSA (Canadian Border Services Agency) is concerned Marten and Claire are not legally connected in any way and therefore the work permit that Claire would presumably acquire to work for Cubetown provides zero umbrella to get Marten status in Canada. He can visit her, but he cannot move there (admittedly, visit is interpreted fairly liberally between the US and Canada, as Marten could spend up to six months in Canada so long as he retained ties to the US, most obviously, by continuing to pay rent on his Northampton apartment, however, he probably cannot afford that).

If they were married, it would be different, because marriage is a legally recognized bond and Marten could apply for status through Claire as her spouse. He could then subsequently apply for an open work permit as the spouse of a skilled worker. 

I'm hoping Jeph is aware of this and simply hasn't gotten around to it yet, but I have no confidence regarding such things.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> Except for the part where Marten can't move to Canada as things presently stand. 'Boyfriend' is a term completely without legal status. As far as the CBSA (Canadian Border Services Agency) is concerned Marten and Claire are not legally connected in any way and therefore the work permit that Claire would presumably acquire to work for Cubetown provides zero umbrella to get Marten status in Canada. He can visit her, but he cannot move there (admittedly, visit is interpreted fairly liberally between the US and Canada, as Marten could spend up to six months in Canada so long as he retained ties to the US, most obviously, by continuing to pay rent on his Northampton apartment, however, he probably cannot afford that).
> 
> If they were married, it would be different, because marriage is a legally recognized bond and Marten could apply for status through Claire as her spouse. He could then subsequently apply for an open work permit as the spouse of a skilled worker. 
> 
> I'm hoping Jeph is aware of this and simply hasn't gotten around to it yet, but I have no confidence regarding such things.


Dude, i have to say your Obsession With the legal minutiae of canadian immigration annoys me, dont be offended.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> I'm hoping Jeph is aware of this and simply hasn't gotten around to it yet, but I have no confidence regarding such things.


Assuming that he is aware, and that it works the same way in-comic as it does in the real world, it's still MUCH too early for the comic to be addressing this point.

Also, there's a 99.99% chance that nobody in the comic is aware of it. If it's going to be a plot point at all, and not just glossed over, it'll be as a surprise wrench thrown into their plans. "Wait, what? I can't just go along with her?" I guarantee that most people don't know the details of immigration law until they need to know. Then they'll have to question their choices and maybe they'll come up with a solution or something else will happen.

Anyway, has the location of Cubetown been confirmed to be within Canadian territorial waters yet? Or is that just another assumption?

----------


## DaveOTN

I'm still mulling over the implications that even in-universe AIs are considered to be lolrandom quirky (as Marten said a couple strips ago). It certainly puts a different spin on the work Roko is doing on anti-AI discrimination if it's a clear stereotype in QC-land that AIs are goofy, with poor impulse control and weird priorities. Maybe that factory doesn't want its assembly line to unionize because its main demands are "fill every space in this factory with bubble gum and make me into a giant plush teddy bear?"

Interestingly, though, we can see certain AIs who appear to have their heads screwed on straight - mainly Roko and Bubbles, both of whom have some sort of initial job in a life-or-death type serious role in the police or the military. So it's clearly possible, theoretically, to build an AI who's not blabbering on about nonsense all the time, and even capable of making snap decisions about difficult moral questions while dealing with a lot of unexpected input.

So, new headcanon time: the AI program in the QC-verse is a military project. The Pentagon or its foreign equivalents has set up these AI creches, where they procedurally generate thousands of sentient AIs at a time. The AIs go through a series of machine learning exercises and are otherwise trained up until they're "mature." The most responsible, sensible ones are then all skimmed off the top by the military-industrial complex, where they go into Bubbles- and Roko-type applications, sentient drones, fighter jets, killer satellites, and all sorts of other high-tech applications. The middle-of-the-road boring but not bright types get bought up by industry to run manufacturing plants and do quality control on pharmaceuticals and other industrial applications. Then, because the AIs are legally classified as sentient beings and/or citizens, the Pentagon can't just delete the rest - the lowest-scoring AIs get dumped into cheap bodies and "freed" to the open market, where they can compete with working-class humans for crappy jobs, buy cheap consumer goods, and otherwise act lolrandom as they wish. 

This puts May's desire to "be a fighter jet" in context - it's actually a perfectly reasonable desire for an AI, she just failed the tests required. And it explains why most of the AIs the main characters encounter are under-employed goofballs - they're what's left of each cohort after the "most responsible" minds have been repeatedly skimmed off. Even the companion PCs like Momo are presumably picked first, and hence more with it. But the general public doesn't really understand the process, because the AI manufacturers and the military don't want them to know how powerful their military AIs are or how they're flooding the workplace with quirky, irresponsible competition.

----------


## Traab

> Except for the part where Marten can't move to Canada as things presently stand. 'Boyfriend' is a term completely without legal status. As far as the CBSA (Canadian Border Services Agency) is concerned Marten and Claire are not legally connected in any way and therefore the work permit that Claire would presumably acquire to work for Cubetown provides zero umbrella to get Marten status in Canada. He can visit her, but he cannot move there (admittedly, visit is interpreted fairly liberally between the US and Canada, as Marten could spend up to six months in Canada so long as he retained ties to the US, most obviously, by continuing to pay rent on his Northampton apartment, however, he probably cannot afford that).
> 
> If they were married, it would be different, because marriage is a legally recognized bond and Marten could apply for status through Claire as her spouse. He could then subsequently apply for an open work permit as the spouse of a skilled worker. 
> 
> I'm hoping Jeph is aware of this and simply hasn't gotten around to it yet, but I have no confidence regarding such things.


Well considering they are going up to visit for now, not to stay, id say thats a moot point. And if he gets hired to work for cube town, then he would have the same work permit benefit to setting up shop there as claire does. And, knowing jeph, I bet we will learn that cubetown isnt canadian territory. Because the best way to get around the real world paperwork and laws involving immigrating to another country is to create a sovereign territory inside another nations borders owned by AI and ignore how that raises 50x as many legal issues. And I would like to add that you seem very invested in the realism of a slice of life comic that has artificial intelligence building a floating city and being too stupid to even know what they need to hire people to do. Do you work in some sort of capacity in this field or something? Lord knows ive seen enough experts offended that their field isnt being shown accurately before.

----------


## Taevyr

Remember that "rewritten" version of a comic I shared a while ago?

Whoever's been writing those has really outdone themselves on 4869. I liked the original, even if Dora checking in on Marten was over a bit fast in my opinion, but this is just perfect.

----------


## Rodin

> Dude, i have to say your Obsession With the legal minutiae of canadian immigration annoys me, dont be offended.


Same.

I criticize QC for a _lot_ of stuff.  Most of it deserved, but some of it I'm being a bit picky for a one-man amateur webcomic.

I wouldn't criticize the Canadian immigration stuff even in a properly done TV sitcom.  It's simply not relevant and an acceptable break from reality to get the characters from point A to point B.

I don't like the idea of Claire and Marten moving to Cubetown, and there are about a million reasons for that.  Canadian immigration law isn't one of them.

----------


## Ionathus

> Remember that "rewritten" version of a comic I shared a while ago?
> 
> Whoever's been writing those has really outdone themselves on 4869. I liked the original, even if Dora checking in on Marten was over a bit fast in my opinion, but this is just perfect.


As someone who's read the last 10 years of QC more or less daily with overall contentedness, before gradually realizing my growing dissatisfaction during the latest vtuber and Cubetown arcs...this parallel universe comic hits hard. Not so much because I care about these alternate results, moreso just because it's playing on my nostalgia. I miss the original cast of this webcomic. I really, really don't want to go to Cubetown.

----------


## Mechalich

> I don't like the idea of Claire and Marten moving to Cubetown, and there are about a million reasons for that.  Canadian immigration law isn't one of them.


It's not the specifics of Canadian law, but just the aspect of moving to another country in general. Basically no country in the 21st has open immigration - meaning you can't just randomly immigrate somewhere. That's _why_ moving to another country is a bigger step than just moving to another state. If the international aspect of the move isn't going to be relevant to the plot in some fashion, then there's no reason for the characters to move internationally. Cubetown could be placed anywhere.




> Do you work in some sort of capacity in this field or something?


Previously I got roped into a situation where someone made this mistake - they attempted to move from Winnipeg to Miami to be with their boyfriend without bothering to consider that you can't just do that - and when they inevitably got refused entry and stuffed on the plane back to Canada the result of was a massive meltdown that set off a tsunami throughout their friend circle and I ended up getting hit up for advice. It took a great deal of time and money (immigration lawyers are not cheap) for that person to overcome the consequences. 

There is a bad tendency in popular media to pretend that the USA-Canada border isn't real and when people internalize that lives end ravaged as a result. If Jeph portrays this the wrong way and people think you can just move to Canada with your boyfriend/girlfriend a person could, in real life, end up going through a seriously traumatic experience. This is a case where making a mistake in the fiction can do real life harm, so yeah, it bugs me.

----------


## PhantomFox

He didn't show all the steps behind setting up a business, registering it with the state, getting permits, etc either.  Because it is boring and would slow down the pacing.  I think this would fall under Conservation of Narrative: If it doesn't serve a story purpose, then don't mention it.  Yes, it's important, but it doesn't make for good storytelling.  Personally, I would think that 'Emigration takes paperwork' is fairly obvious and can be skipped in storytelling.

----------


## Vinyadan

> Previously I got roped into a situation where someone made this mistake - they attempted to move from Winnipeg to Miami to be with their boyfriend without bothering to consider that you can't just do that - and when they inevitably got refused entry and stuffed on the plane back to Canada the result of was a massive meltdown that set off a tsunami throughout their friend circle and I ended up getting hit up for advice. It took a great deal of time and money (immigration lawyers are not cheap) for that person to overcome the consequences.


It reminds me of an experience lived by the author of Goblins, who is Canadian and went to the USA for a convention, with the intention of selling books, which means working, without having a work visa, and, when stopped, also admitted that it wasn't the first time, which raised the perspective of being barred from entering the USA or getting jailtime. In the end, the two of them (Danielle was also there) were detained, interrogated, searched, and put on a plane back to Canada without their passports, which would be returned once in Canada.

----------


## DaveOTN

> ...I think this would fall under Conservation of Narrative: If it doesn't serve a story purpose, then don't mention it.  Yes, it's important, but it doesn't make for good storytelling...


It could be relevant to the story, if Jeph wants it to be. It adds another layer of conflict to Claire and Marten's relationship...sure, the underemployed boyfriend is happy to tag along when she gets a job, but if it's another country then decisions have to be made. Maybe Marten decides it's time for a marriage proposal, which is a level of proactive commitment far more serious than just moving with a partner - especially if the job seems like it might fall through in six months. And now Dora's told him not to upstage her wedding, so he's got to be careful how he mentions it, but if he asks for a quiet courthouse ceremony Claire tells him that she always dreamed of a big wedding and a beautiful dress etc etc and before she transitioned she thought it was impossible, so on so on...You could milk a year's worth of strips out of this and also neatly bookend Marten's story with him moving to Northampton to follow a girl and then him getting married in order to move away.

But I don't think that'll happen. I think the Claire-Marten discussion we saw before the phone interview has done and settled any drama between the two of them on this and they'll just move to Cubetown. Much like during the recent Bubbles-Faye argument, Jeph seems really shy about having his tentpole characters have any real conflict that lasts more than a couple strips. I also do think that Jeph has purposefully made Cubetown into some sort of offshore seasteading model city that is outside the jurisdiction of Canadian law specifically to avoid having to think too hard about this, which is totally fine for the thicc pastel robodrama he'd prefer to be writing.

----------


## Keltest

As I recall, Jeph has actually moved from the States to Canada, so its not like he doesnt understand whats involved.

----------


## theangelJean

> As I recall, Jeph has actually moved from the States to Canada, so its not like he doesnt understand whats involved.


Didn't know that. Maybe having Cubetown offshore from Canada was less "somewhere international but nonspecific" and more "write what you know".

Who knows, Marten might become one of the central characters of the comic again.

----------


## hungrycrow

> Who knows, Marten might become one of the central characters of the comic again.


That'd be nice, but I feel like the last comic is implying that Marten has reached his full character development potential and is now mature and chill about things, rather than needing to learn to be at least somewhat concerned with where his and Claire's lives are going. And also concerned with the complicated process of emigration.

----------


## Rodin

> But I don't think that'll happen. I think the Claire-Marten discussion we saw before the phone interview has done and settled any drama between the two of them on this and they'll just move to Cubetown. Much like during the recent Bubbles-Faye argument, Jeph seems really shy about having his tentpole characters have any real conflict that lasts more than a couple strips. I also do think that Jeph has purposefully made Cubetown into some sort of offshore seasteading model city that is outside the jurisdiction of Canadian law specifically to avoid having to think too hard about this, which is totally fine for the thicc pastel robodrama he'd prefer to be writing.


I just binged the webcomic Rain (sorry for no hyperlink, on mobile) after someone posted it on this forum, and for the first time in a long while I realized I hadnt checked QC for two days. After reading that Im finding it hard to come back.  Characters that feel deeper than stereotypes having meaningfully deep conversations.  Actual confrontations over non-shallow issues.  Consequences that go beyond and they hugged it out or mysterious rich person fixes it.  Antagonists that arent flat but who are also irredeemable mixed in with those who areand those who are dont always get a happy result.

Its raised my standard for storytelling and even the stories I really liked from QC seem rather flat in comparison.  And certainly nothing from the past several years from Jeph comes close.

----------


## Wraith

Station got drunk and almost got a Marine fired by trying to bribe her, houses bored murder-drones, and occasionally threatens to 'forget' to keep the life-support going, and even 'he' thinks that Cubetown is a nightmare? If even the conversation about red flags is itself a red flag, _how can anyone be even remotely considering this as a viable job offer!?_  :Small Tongue: 

Also: Claire, don't be rude. Say 'hi' to the nice robot man who is taking time out of his day to talk to you about the thing that only you want, instead of immediately ignoring him to once again insult your brother for the sin of 'having interests'.




> Well, not a speech as such, but this seems fairly accurate so far. It is good to see somebody making sure both partner's emotional needs are being met. And also, fair play on making sure they attend the wedding.


Have to admit, I had hoped for something more convincing. One person asked Marten about it, he said 'it's fine' and no one pushed or elaborated further - that's about on par with how he talks about anything that may or may not be bothering him, until it eventually reaches breaking point, so I can't say I'm convinced that this is anything more than a hand-wave.

*BUT* - Yes, you're right. Jeph took the time to address the concept, in a positive way, and it was by an appropriate agent in Dora who I have often found to be a good character. 7/10; Flashes of older characterisation, decent execution, good segue to other plots, just give us more of it, please.  :Small Smile: 




> Someone pointed this out recently and your post reminded me: what exactly does Marten get out of his relationship with Claire? What have we seen her give to him? 
> 
> Am I forgetting something?


I admit, my first reflex was that this is an accurate portrayal, but as I thought about it I realised that Dora also didn't do much for Marten, and neither did he for her. Yes, they lived together and they had a good sex life, but the comic wasn't *about* them being romantic, or being a couple, or going on dates - it was about them making snarky comments and making quips about indie bands which interacting with their similarly weird and smart-ass 20-something friends.

The comic is very different from back then, but even so we didn't see a lot of the 'romance' or 'nurturing' side of the relationship.

Claire's arc is very different to Dora's. Claire isn't so much about the quips and the 'grown up problems' of running a business and such, her arc is very much the focus on her personal insecurities; her gender, a relationship with her family and boyfriend, her education, her job. We remark often enough how little conflict there is in the comic or how easily it gets resolved - Claire's arc is ALL conflict, and it's constantly ongoing. It can be hard to miss, without the sudden and abrupt spikes in drama that Dora brought. 
That doesn't make her selfish though, it's just a different focus of her character, and in some ways an indicator of how much she trusts Marten to help her through it compared to how Dora wouldn't communicate until it was too late. *Being trusted* - with her identity, her virginity, her first date, her companionship, her future plans, and all the rest - is what Claire gives to Marten. Not always a welcome role, I admit, but definitely a special one and something that he hasn't gotten from anyone else.

Similarly, I thought about a comment that I have made before when we've criticised things we don't like in the comic: Webcomics are a visual medium, and without additional materials the only things we can say have happened for certain, are ones that are referred to in the comic. Normally this is used as a critique of the writing, like when Claire wrote a cheque for her share of the apartment despite being an unemployed intern - "where did she get the money? Does she had a loan, or a trust-fund? Unless the comic tells us otherwise, its apparently coming from nowhere".

But in all fairness to Jeph, that works both ways. Claire and Marten often say they're happy together and _we don't have any evidence to the contrary_ even if we only see the difficulties being explored in the comic. 

Marten x Claire is different to Marten x Dora. MxD was about jokes and weird things happening to sort-of-normal people. MxC is about Marten being the 'grown up' to someone who is at a very different point in their life and are exploring their feelings about it all. A different relationship and arc, but not necessarily a worse one.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Vinyadan

> Its raised my standard for storytelling and even the stories I really liked from QC seem rather flat in comparison.  And certainly nothing from the past several years from Jeph comes close.


Personally, I am reminded of something the author of Dr Mcninja wrote when he ended the comic: back when he started, he had decided that the project wouldn't last longer than ten years. It's something I have read in other places as an advice for people in comedy: don't do the same thing for over ten years. I wonder if QC is a victim of having passed the ten-year mark. You know, zombification like the Simpson.

----------


## Ionathus

> Personally, I am reminded of something the author of Dr Mcninja wrote when he ended the comic: back when he started, he had decided that the project wouldn't last longer than ten years. It's something I have read in other places as an advice for people in comedy: don't do the same thing for over ten years. I wonder if QC is a victim of having passed the ten-year mark. You know, zombification like the Simpson.


With rare exceptions, yes I'd agree. A certain amount of seasonal rot is almost inevitable in anything that lasts so long. Especially when the original prompt (self-obsessed indie New Englander 20-somethings Do a Slice Of Life Comic) was so open-ended and casual. I think QC is a perfect example of what can happen when you don't have an end in sight, even in the far-flung future. The plot, characters, and characterizations will naturally wander, because there's no driving story-based force beyond "what the author feels like writing about this month." As his tastes wander, so does the plot, and so does much of what originally drew me to the comic.

----------


## Rodin

> Personally, I am reminded of something the author of Dr Mcninja wrote when he ended the comic: back when he started, he had decided that the project wouldn't last longer than ten years. It's something I have read in other places as an advice for people in comedy: don't do the same thing for over ten years. I wonder if QC is a victim of having passed the ten-year mark. You know, zombification like the Simpson.


From what I understand it's a sort of double-edged sword.  Don't continue a project for over 10 years...but after 10 years you can start re-using jokes because your audience has changed and/or forgotten.

Notably, Rain (now with linky goodness) also lasted for a decade.  And that was only because the author had a number of medical issues, the original run was meant to be several years shorter.

If starting a new project made Jeph more willing to take risks I'd be all for it.  Let the QC cast have their happy ending and go do something different where you're more willing to be rough with your characters.  Not in a dark way, but there needs to be some sort of conflict to keep a story from devolving into marshmallowy nothingness.  I was watching OSP's Trope Talk on Deus Ex Machinas this evening and Red mentioned there is a "sweet spot" between everything being great and grimdark.  Right now QC is far off in happyland, and I have little confidence in Jeph to actually shake things up.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> Station got drunk and almost got a Marine fired by trying to bribe her, houses bored murder-drones, and occasionally threatens to 'forget' to keep the life-support going, and even 'he' thinks that Cubetown is a nightmare? If even the conversation about red flags is itself a red flag, _how can anyone be even remotely considering this as a viable job offer!?_


Almost none of that happened, at least in the form you stated here.

Station put a Marine (Lt. Potter) in an embarrasing position (1), gave her a number of shares as part of an act of recompense (2), which she returned on a point of principle. Then they went off and got drunk together (3).

No attempt at getting her fired (her being firing isn't mentioned at all, and Lt Potter points out that it would be Station who would be in serious trouble); No attempt at bribery (Lt. Potter hints that it could have been interpreted as such, but also states that she is sure that is not the case).

I can't recall anywhere where he has threatened not to keep life support going - even when he is drunk he partitions life support to a seperate subsystem. The closest we have is Station burning out a number of processors with Hannalore when trying to  perform a very complex (and unnecessary) calculation (4), while the worst of that appears to be Lt. Potter getting a cold shower (and we do not know if that is the true cause, she simply asserts it).

The killer drones are sort of true (5), but appear to be mostly a joke by Hannalore and Station level. If May can dream of beinga  fighter jet, I suppose even station drones can dream of being ninjas.

Overall, Station seems to be one of the least flakey AIs in the story, although that is possibly damning with faint praise...

----------


## The Glyphstone

I need to go do an archive binge. Re reading the Station arc reminded me of when I genuinely enjoyed QC.

Even Yelling Bird...

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> I need to go do an archive binge. Re reading the Station arc reminded me of when I genuinely enjoyed QC.


I end up on archive binges every time I try and check the older comics. I have the same problem with OOTS and Girl Genius as well...




> Even Yelling Bird...


Oh, I say... Let's not go too far...

----------


## tomandtish

> From what I understand it's a sort of double-edged sword.  Don't continue a project for over 10 years...but after 10 years you can start re-using jokes because your audience has changed and/or forgotten.
> 
> Notably, Rain (now with linky goodness) also lasted for a decade.  And that was only because the author had a number of medical issues, the original run was meant to be several years shorter.
> 
> If starting a new project made Jeph more willing to take risks I'd be all for it.  Let the QC cast have their happy ending and go do something different where you're more willing to be rough with your characters.  Not in a dark way, but there needs to be some sort of conflict to keep a story from devolving into marshmallowy nothingness.  I was watching OSP's Trope Talk on Deus Ex Machinas this evening and Red mentioned there is a "sweet spot" between everything being great and grimdark.  Right now QC is far off in happyland, and I have little confidence in Jeph to actually shake things up.


It's one of those comics that is a bit self-limiting. Characters grow (emotionally) but they don't age. This comic has been going 18 years at a minimum, but no one looks appreciably older, etc. Other than holiday comics there's no real sense of how much time has passed in QC world. You can continue a comic over 10 years, but characters need to have physical growth as well as emotional. Heck, Claire and Martin started dating in comic 2805 which was almost 8 years ago. There's only so much you can do with characters that don't age. For that matter Sam was first mentioned in comic 1958, which means she should be 24 by now (since she's 13 when first mentioned).

----------


## Keltest

> It's one of those comics that is a bit self-limiting. Characters grow (emotionally) but they don't age. This comic has been going 18 years at a minimum, but no one looks appreciably older, etc. Other than holiday comics there's no real sense of how much time has passed in QC world. You can continue a comic over 10 years, but characters need to have physical growth as well as emotional. Heck, Claire and Martin started dating in comic 2805 which was almost 8 years ago. There's only so much you can do with characters that don't age. For that matter Sam was first mentioned in comic 1958, which means she should be 24 by now (since she's 13 when first mentioned).


There is something of a real progression of time. I want to say Sam in particular has actually visible aged up a bit, because puberty, and the seasons do turn in the background so we can get a very rough estimate of how much time has passed based on that.

----------


## tomandtish

> There is something of a real progression of time. I want to say Sam in particular has actually visible aged up a bit, because puberty, and the seasons do turn in the background so we can get a very rough estimate of how much time has passed based on that.


Seasons may turn in the background but we have to treat that as meaningless, as there's been 8 years of seasons for Sam and she obviously hasn't aged 8 years, let alone others aging the 18 years that have passed.  In looking back I'm not sure her or any other character has aged at all vs. simple changes in drawing style.

----------


## Vinyadan

To make a comparison with another slice-of-life comic, Least I Could Do had a strip where the author told the characters that they woud start growing old as years passed, with the exception of the cat.

----------


## Traab

The thing is, the years dont pass by the same as they do for us because you could have 50 comics on the same day covering a major event or time skip ahead 9 months later. That makes things more complicated when it comes to deciding how long it has been in universe. It has been at least a couple years but its hard to say exactly how many. Certainly not the number of years the comic has existed though.

----------


## Keltest

> Seasons may turn in the background but we have to treat that as meaningless, as there's been 8 years of seasons for Sam and she obviously hasn't aged 8 years, let alone others aging the 18 years that have passed.  In looking back I'm not sure her or any other character has aged at all vs. simple changes in drawing style.


Have you actually counted that, or are you referring to real time years?

----------


## Gez

Another take is that of Dumbing of Age, where, word of god, the in-strip year is always the same as the publication year, however it's still a webcomic with webcomic time so it can take a real-world month to go over a comic-world day. This creates a sort of weird sliding timeline where Joyce was born in 20xx, and started university in 2010.

----------


## Wraith

> Almost none of that happened, at least in the form you stated here.


Excuse me, I was paraphrasing/exagarrating for comedic effect. I thought that referring to them as "murder-drones" made that clear, but it seems not.




> Overall, Station seems to be one of the least flakey AIs in the story, although that is possibly damning with faint praise...


Insert obligatory "You see how that makes it worse, right?" meme  :Small Big Grin:  :Small Tongue: 




> Have you actually counted that, or are you referring to real time years?


I did, not that long ago. It needs updating to include the recent time-skip that happened while Claire was working in Coffee O Doom, but it's more or less accurate, I think.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> Another take is that of Dumbing of Age, where, word of god, the in-strip year is always the same as the publication year, however it's still a webcomic with webcomic time so it can take a real-world month to go over a comic-world day. This creates a sort of weird sliding timeline where Joyce was born in 20xx, and started university in 2010.


Holy **** the first semester took 11 years

----------


## tomandtish

> Have you actually counted that, or are you referring to real time years?


Referring to real time years. But he's had Christmas comics every year, so if we assume holidays are accurate then it's been quite a while. 

Personally i think the characters just don't really age. it's the same as Foxtrot. Plenty of things indicate the passage of time, but Jason's always in 5th grade, Paige is starting/in her freshman year, and Peter is a junior.

----------


## Taevyr

The only example I can think of that had the main character age in real-time (more-or-less) is the Hellblazer series, which had the advantage of being a monthly title, and even there they obviously had to work in the aging around/between arcs to do so. Still, they managed to keep it up for 300 issues, and he _definitely_ ages, including any scars, diseases, and everything he couldn't remove by way of blackmailing a few devils or somesuch. 

El Goonish Shive has a decent progress of time when you look at the series as a whole, but compared to real-time it's still excruciatingly slow. However, there's been several new years', birthdays, and similar events that make it clear how time progresses, and I'd say the main characters do so as well. It could be quicker, but as the characters genuinely seem to grow and mature I don't quite mind.

The problem with QC, in terms of time progressing, is that there's hardly ever anything in the comic that indicates the time of year, nobody has a clear age, and nobody shows any of the growth that comes with aging: Sam's the only example of someone who obviously aged, but all we know is that she's now "mid-late teens". These days, they're essentially in the same ageless wasteland occupied by the simpsons, to name the first random example that comes to mind: no real changes, no real maturing, just a roulette wheel of wacky (robot) slice-of-life that stops on whatever tickles Jeph's fancy of the week.

----------


## Rodin

> The only example I can think of that had the main character age in real-time (more-or-less) is the Hellblazer series, which had the advantage of being a monthly title, and even there they obviously had to work in the aging around/between arcs to do so. Still, they managed to keep it up for 300 issues, and he _definitely_ ages, including any scars, diseases, and everything he couldn't remove by way of blackmailing a few devils or somesuch. 
> 
> El Goonish Shive has a decent progress of time when you look at the series as a whole, but compared to real-time it's still excruciatingly slow. However, there's been several new years', birthdays, and similar events that make it clear how time progresses, and I'd say the main characters do so as well. It could be quicker, but as the characters genuinely seem to grow and mature I don't quite mind.
> 
> The problem with QC, in terms of time progressing, is that there's hardly ever anything in the comic that indicates the time of year, nobody has a clear age, and nobody shows any of the growth that comes with aging: Sam's the only example of someone who obviously aged, but all we know is that she's now "mid-late teens". These days, they're essentially in the same ageless wasteland occupied by the simpsons, to name the first random example that comes to mind: no real changes, no real maturing, just a roulette wheel of wacky (robot) slice-of-life that stops on whatever tickles Jeph's fancy of the week.


Something Positive has the characters age.  The characters started in their early 20s and are now middle aged.  In the early years of the comic Halloween was a big deal, with lots of partying and getting drunk and all the shenanigans that ensue.  A recent comic had Davan (the main character) wondering why he doesn't get excited for it anymore.  The answer is that they've grown older - none of his friends do anything special for it.  His (unofficially) adopted son is too old now.  And the area they've moved to doesn't have a big trick-or-treating scene, so they don't get kids coming to the door either.  And the most recent comic reminded us that his father passed shortly after Halloween, and several years have passed since then.

QC characters have aged _maybe_ a couple years over the same 20 year period.  Some of them are in relationships, but none have gotten married.  None have kids.  The parents haven't aged noticeably or had any difficulties with growing older.  Even the Simpsons has had characters die from time to time.

And that's kinda the problem.  With no set story, there's no sense of progression.  And with no time passing, there's no way to evolve and tell different stories.

----------


## Mechalich

> QC characters have aged _maybe_ a couple years over the same 20 year period.  Some of them are in relationships, but none have gotten married.  None have kids.  The parents haven't aged noticeably or had any difficulties with growing older.  Even the Simpsons has had characters die from time to time.
> 
> And that's kinda the problem.  With no set story, there's no sense of progression.  And with no time passing, there's no way to evolve and tell different stories.


I'm not sure it's quite that. Time does pass, and characters do evolve. The problem is that QC is deeply wedded to telling stories about underemployed people in unstable relationships. Any member of the cast who acquires financial or relationship stability tends to vanish from the comic completely and generally without a send off. Consider, for example, Steve and Cosette. They're just gone from the comic, even though they both still live in town, have the same friends as before and Cosette _still works at Coffee of Doom_. Did they get married? Buy a home together? No one knows.

Jeph doesn't want to tell different stories. When his characters leave their current state he abandons them. A few exceptions, like Marigold, exist, but for the most part there's a real problem of characters developing themselves all the way out of the comic.

----------


## geoduck

I hope we get to hear what Yay thinks of Cubetown, whether or not they are somehow involved in running it.

----------


## Mechalich

Interesting look a Cubetown's physical structure in the new comic, one that allows us to make some inferences. It appears to be a floating platform somewhere in the range of 1-3 kilometers on a side (scale provided by the container ship slightly to the side, which should be 300-500 meters in length), with ~2 km being a rough estimate. The actual Cube itself would then probably be a 1 cubic kilometer by volume structure in the middle. Additionally the backdrop suggests that it is something in the range of 10-20 km offshore from Halifax, just beyond the edge of the bay. That's probably at least a 45 minute ferry ride, though there is a very large helipad in the corner that would allow for significantly more rapid access given the apparently limitless budget. 

Of course, actually building such a structure would be a truly epic engineering undertaking - Cubetown is many times larger than the largest offshore oil rig ever built and taller than the Burj Khalifa - and would have cost tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars to produce. For comparison, the Berkut Oil Platform, the world's largest offshore structure at present, cost $12 billion dollars to make. Such a structure cannot simply operate as a 'hot mess' full time. It would sink into the sea. That being said, it is entirely possible that there is a significant divide between the operations of Cubetown, the physical structure - quite probably run by a hyper-responsible super-AI similar in many respects to Station - and Cubetown the research institution - quite possibly run by a completely bonkers AI director.

----------


## Yuki Akuma

I don't know why, but for some reason I really like that Cubetown just has... parks. You'd expect a space designed entirely by AIs, for AIs, would lack that sort of thing, but maybe they always wanted humans to be comfortable living and working there too.

----------


## Ionathus

Well. We got an establishing shot of Cubetown.

Pack it in, folks. We're never going back to Northampton.

----------


## geoduck

> I don't know why, but for some reason I really like that Cubetown just has... parks. You'd expect a space designed entirely by AIs, for AIs, would lack that sort of thing, but maybe they always wanted humans to be comfortable living and working there too.


Why would an AI not enjoy a visit to a park? They have eyes and a sense of smell.

----------


## Rakaydos

> Well. We got an establishing shot of Cubetown.
> 
> Pack it in, folks. We're never going back to Northampton.


Cell phones are a thing, you know.

----------


## Ionathus

> Cell phones are a thing, you know.


Steve (RIP in Peace) owns a cell phone, but I ain't seen him more than twice in the last 2500 strips so I don't think that's gonna save us.

----------


## Wraith

> Why would an AI not enjoy a visit to a park? They have eyes and a sense of smell.


Because they're also morons who apparently have no grasp of the concept of 'planning'.

The Reddit-based strip-slay has brought up an interesting point about Cubetown. The reason that it is attractive to AI - that it is in international waters and has virtually no oversight on individual projects, because all AIs are haphazard and nonsensical and can't function in the strict bureaucracy of the 'real world' - also makes it incredibly attractive to supervillains and those whose experiments range from the unethical to the downright illegal, and thus want secrecy outside of established legal jurisdictions.

And, as Station says, the AIs are incapable of organising anything on their own, which means there is an incredibly biased likelihood that Cubetown is *already* run by someone who is irredeemably Evil. And probably not "Dr Evil From Austin Powers" Evil, something more like "David Xanatos" or even "Ernst Stavros Blofeld" Evil.

....I kinda wanna see that.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rakaydos

> Steve (RIP in Peace) owns a cell phone, but I ain't seen him more than twice in the last 2500 strips so I don't think that's gonna save us.


That doesn't stop Station showing up despite being hundreds of KM away at best.

Splitting the group between two locations is still a possibility.

----------


## Ionathus

> That doesn't stop Station showing up despite being hundreds of KM away at best.
> 
> Splitting the group between two locations is still a possibility.


I think we're talking past each other. I didn't mean that the physical distance will force the comic to split: as you said, there are plenty of ways to stay in touch virtually, and the remaining Northampton cast will most likely be checking in. My joke was moreso that, until Jeph actually _drew a picture_ of Cubetown, there was still _hope_ that this plot would just be a bad interview and Claire would turn it down because it's an obvious catastrophe waiting to happen. But now that Jeph has actually drawn a picture of Cubetown, it's a sign that he's truly invested in it and we've crossed the event horizon -- there is no other direction for the comic to go than to be pulled inexorably into the gaping maw of Wacky Goo Scientist Land.

On another note entirely, would anyone like a nice frog? Freshly dissected!  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> The Reddit-based strip-slay has brought up an interesting point about Cubetown. The reason that it is attractive to AI - that it is in international waters and has virtually no oversight on individual projects, because all AIs are haphazard and nonsensical and can't function in the strict bureaucracy of the 'real world' - also makes it incredibly attractive to supervillains and those whose experiments range from the unethical to the downright illegal, and thus want secrecy outside of established legal jurisdictions.


That's not how international waters works. Any object - usually a ship but also including things like oil rigs - in international waters operates under the laws of whatever the flag state of the facility happens to be. It's not some kind of law-free zone. 

Besides, Cubetown, as shown, is well within Canada's Exclusive Economic Zone, and quite possibly within Canada's contiguous zone (being within 24 nautical miles of the nearest point of shoreline). So it's not in international waters.

----------


## theangelJean

> Well. We got an establishing shot of Cubetown.
> 
> Pack it in, folks. We're never going back to Northampton.


I get what you mean. But we also got an establishing shot of Station, and we came back from there less than 60 strips later.

Edit: also, wow. Marigold has been a main character for over 2/3 of the comic.

----------


## tomandtish

> That's not how international waters works. Any object - usually a ship but also including things like oil rigs - in international waters operates under the laws of whatever the flag state of the facility happens to be. It's not some kind of law-free zone. 
> 
> Besides, Cubetown, as shown, is well within Canada's Exclusive Economic Zone, and quite possibly within Canada's contiguous zone (being within 24 nautical miles of the nearest point of shoreline). So it's not in international waters.


Not just the country whose flag is flying. The country of a victim of a crime can usually claim jurisdiction as well. US Code allows the US to claim jurisdiction over any crime that involves a US citizen and is not in another country's jurisdiction. (Whether another country respects the claim is a political issue not appropriate for here).

----------


## Taevyr

> Such a structure cannot simply operate as a 'hot mess' full time. It would sink into the sea. That being said, it is entirely possible that there is a significant divide between the operations of Cubetown, the physical structure - quite probably run by a hyper-responsible super-AI similar in many respects to Station - and Cubetown the research institution - quite possibly run by a completely bonkers AI director.


I propose a more simple explanation for why it doesn't sink: it was deliberately built as an Icecube, because Icecubes float, and this should stop it from sinking.

The sheer critical mass of semantic idiocy that lead to this thought is singlehandedly causing it to actually work that way, somehow.


From the reddit crowd, one comment that stood out to me was one that stated that Jeph essentially already _had_ an oversightless research Institute in canon, complete with a non-standard environment and brilliant scientists of all fields pushing science, namely Station. Considering that that one was shown to have actual results and functionality, it _really_ doesn't reflect well that a bunch of mysterious inventors decided to build a second, far shadier and less-organized independent research station that's viewed as a hot mess by their actually-functional predecessor.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Does the Reddit provide a way to reconcile how every character with dialogue is saying Cubetown is a nightmare   best avoided, but because we have seen one picture of it then it is guaranteed to be the new setting?

----------


## Mechalich

> Does the Reddit provide a way to reconcile how every character with dialogue is saying Cubetown is a nightmare   best avoided, but because we have seen one picture of it then it is guaranteed to be the new setting?


I'll take a stab: money, money, and even more money.

Cubetown, as both expressed by an in-comic authority such as Station and through the visual presentation of its overall structure is sitting on a truly ludicrous pile of wealth - like GDP of a mid-sized nation levels. Claire, in being asked to take on a position as 'Director of Information Science' can, and should, demand an appropriately moonshot-level salary. Going into negotiations and asking for something like $1 million per year, plus paid for on-site housing and expenses would not be unreasonable, and since Cubetown is a hot mess, they could very well give her that. At that price point taking a job that you absolutely know will result in high levels of misery and stress - as Marten notes in the most recent comic - can still be a worthwhile choice so long as you commit to quitting when, not if, it all becomes too much. 

If Claire could tough out 2-3 years, at a million annually with all expenses paid she could take home somewhere in the range of 1.5-2 million (depending on taxes), which is very close to 'never have to work again' kind of money. If she can somehow weasel a complimentary arrangement for Marten, including the simple nepotism of just hiring him to work for her, they could definitely, as a couple, hit such a benchmark. 

In sum, sometimes selling out is worth it, and Cubetown appears to just be a ridiculous enterprise, not an evil one.

----------


## Ionathus

> Does the Reddit provide a way to reconcile how every character with dialogue is saying Cubetown is a nightmare   best avoided, but because we have seen one picture of it then it is guaranteed to be the new setting?


If that's a dig at me, I'll own it.

No, the comic's not guaranteed to move to Cubetown permanently. I was being flippant and fatalistic about how much I dislike Cubetown so far, and how enamored Jeph seems to be with Moray when I really would prefer she never appear again. He has a habit of dropping characters and plotlines the second he gets bored with them - especially in recent years - and just writing a new character to fawn over with the same 5 quirky personality traits. 

So yeah, it was a joke. I'm joking that Cubetown collectively is the logical conclusion to that behavior. It was clearly bad execution, because 3/4 responses treated it like a legitimate argument. So let's just toss that particular frog in the bin and move along, pretend I never said anything.




> every character with dialogue is saying Cubetown is a nightmare best avoided


And sidebar: I really don't think the in-universe Cubetown discussion has been as clear-cut as you say. Notice that basically every character says some version of "yeah there's a billion red flags, buuuuuut the pay/opportunity is good..." It makes sense to have your characters weigh the pros and cons, but they're giving undue weight to the positives in this instance when the negatives are clearly tipping the scales. 

This is like saying "Sure, Sammy the Axe Murderer has killed his last 5 partners and on our last date, he just sat there staring at me and sharpening his axe. But he's just so _rich_ and _handsome_. I just don't know what to choose!" The options are not equal and it is ridiculous of the cast to pretend they are.

And even if this wasn't an obvious nightmare, even if it was just a strait-laced job that simply required a bit of hustle and assertiveness...Claire is not that person. She has repeatedly demonstrated how bad she is at standing up for herself. Maybe Dora or Faye or Hanners could handle this job...but Claire is the absolute worst choice for the job, and in the real world it would obliterate her, and nobody in the cast is acknowledging that.

----------


## tyckspoon

> In sum, sometimes selling out is worth it, and Cubetown appears to just be a ridiculous enterprise, not an evil one.


Still think in any sort of halfway realistic scenario Claire should pass on this, but there's also:

- Claire can put 'worked at Cubetown' on her CV. The project has an apparently enormous amount of prestige attached to it (..probably because there is so much money sloshing around there and people don't really know how much of it is likely just being wasted), so there's a fair amount of value here, like being able to say you worked at Google or Netflix in reality - even if you washed out after six months just being hired there is taken as a mark of quality. Bonus points if you can legitimately say you achieved something while there.

- The job will almost certainly put Claire in contact with a lot of very high powered individuals, which is a great way to be in a position to network into a more suitable job after giving a reasonable effort to Cubetown's hot mess.

- Claire would have to work very hard to cause actual harm here. Anything she can achieve will be better than what Cubetown is currently doing, and if she doesn't achieve anything it seems very likely nobody will notice.

So in short it's an enormous chance to fail upwards, if it's approached with the right mindset. I don't think Claire as previously presented can do that, she'll destroy herself with her -own- expectations for how she should do the job (recall how she broke down worrying about her final exam, something she literally spent multiple years preparing for), but there is an opportunity for somebody who is.. well, less ethical, frankly.

('twere me, I'd probably accept the job, try to negotiate for a generous compensation and confirm that I'm allowed to spend basically whatever I want to get the new department going, and then go find some other company that actually does this kind of thing and hire them to run it.)


..also in the ongoing saga of Jeph Can't Remember How To Draw More Than One Face At A Time Marten and Dora in this strip look more like siblings than Dora and Sven.

----------


## Wraith

> That's not how international waters works. Any object - usually a ship but also including things like oil rigs - in international waters operates under the laws of whatever the flag state of the facility happens to be. It's not some kind of law-free zone. 
> 
> Besides, Cubetown, as shown, is well within Canada's Exclusive Economic Zone, and quite possibly within Canada's contiguous zone (being within 24 nautical miles of the nearest point of shoreline). So it's not in international waters.


I mean, yeah you could look at it like that - if you want to waste every single reason for them to have a laboratory floating out in the ocean apart from "lolrandom". Who would intentionally write such a boring story about a science lab that could potentially be free to do whatever it wants (even if it turns out that they WANT to do ethical and wholesome research) and then... doesn't?  :Small Tongue:  :Small Wink: 




> ('twere me, I'd probably accept the job, try to negotiate for a generous compensation and confirm that I'm allowed to spend basically whatever I want to get the new department going, and then go find some other company that actually does this kind of thing and hire them to run it.)


EXACTLY what I was thinking. Claire gets herself hired as Director of IS, negotiates for herself a million dollar salary plus benefits, and then immediately hires 5 senior managers and a small army of programmers who have experience in this role as her staff and puts them to work. Or outsources it and starts a bidding war between Apple, Microsoft, and whatever that guy who isn't Elon Musk in-universe is called.

She effectively turns her role into a rubber-stamping exercise, signing off proposals that her team have put together and answering to the Director when (if) they ask for an update while picking up whatever they can about IS as she goes. This isn't even so far-fetched - I've worked for Universities when they upgrade their existing computer systems, let alone installing new ones, and the amount of short-term manpower they can bring in to delegate such a task is incredible.

----------


## Traab

Yeah most of the red flags boil down to "Its disorganized." I think some people here have kind of inflated the horrors of cubetown a bit more than it needs to be. The upsides are honestly not really claires thing, but huge budget and freedom to do what you want would be incredible for just about any experienced person in any field to work with, so its not surprising they have a lot of takers. This is your chance to do something huge and get it on your resume, and it honestly feels low pressure enough that if you fail to accomplish your goal you can spin it into a learning process and try again. Without some high intensity investors demanding results 6 months before you even start. With claire it will be very much a sink or swim scenario, but in a pool rather than the ocean in a storm. Also the water is only 4 feet deep so you could probably stand up if it gets overwhelming.

----------


## Mechalich

> Yeah most of the red flags boil down to "Its disorganized." I think some people here have kind of inflated the horrors of cubetown a bit more than it needs to be.


I think Moray's 'interview' (it feels insulting to dignify what actually happened using that word) was exactly as horrifying as it appeared. On the other hand, Jeph's drawing of Cubetown presents it as literally the largest structure every created on planet Earth, and if it survived winds, waves, and blizzards long enough to actually be built, then someone extremely responsible actually is operating there, just in some other sphere. 

Hypothetically I can see the genesis of Cubetown as the vanity project of some cadre of super-rich AIs who decided to build a giant offshore archology 'because we can!' and as a sort of 'you human billionaires have private yachts but we have a private floating skyscraper, so there' one-upmanship and then, once they'd actually put the thing together realized that hadn't actually planned to, you know, do anything with the thing they'd made and decided to turn it into a research campus, but having no background in research just hired a bunch of goofballs by throwing money around. I mean, if an actual billionaire offered hundreds of millions of dollars for 'holistic research' and then used a half-baked machine-learning algorithm to decide who to accept...I could see something like this happening. 

There are academic research projects funded by eccentric philanthropy that have gone something like this, on a much smaller scale of course. Usually the academics come out okay.

----------


## Rakaydos

> whatever that guy who isn't Elon Musk in-universe is called.


Hanner's dad?'

Also, when it comes to "well funded geinuses doing whatever", well, look who's talking, Station: https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2136

----------


## The Glyphstone

> If that's a dig at me, I'll own it.


Maybe a dig at the overall Dominic-Deegan-grade negativity we seem to have devolved into, but not a dig at you specifically. I legitimately lost track of what commentary was being imported from the subreddit and what was homegrown.

I'm hoping that the tour arc, where Claire gets an up close look at this floating dumpster fire, will satisfy Jephs temporary obsession with Moray.

----------


## Wraith

> Hanner's dad?'


No, the other white millionaire scientist who offered to solve everyone's problems. Christ, that's not even sarcasm - what a damning indictment of that plot... 

Landon Munroe - The guy who Roko spoke to about Universal Chassis-care who agreed that it was a brilliant idea and he'd get started on it right away, only for his assistant to point out that his multi-billion dollar company hadn't actually turned a profit yet.

----------


## Traab

> No, the other white millionaire scientist who offered to solve everyone's problems. Christ, that's not even sarcasm - what a damning indictment of that plot... 
> 
> Landon Munroe - The guy who Roko spoke to about Universal Chassis-care who agreed that it was a brilliant idea and he'd get started on it right away, only for his assistant to point out that his multi-billion dollar company hadn't actually turned a profit yet.


I did a quick google dive on billionaires broken down by race. Its kinda interesting. 41.6% of them are white of varying european ethnicities. There are only 6 black billionaires which is .42%. About 27% are asiatic. Jewish about 17% or so. So statistically speaking, its not unlikely that multiple billionaires you run across while living in Mass are going to be white.

----------


## Rodin

> Yeah most of the red flags boil down to "Its disorganized." I think some people here have kind of inflated the horrors of cubetown a bit more than it needs to be. The upsides are honestly not really claires thing, but huge budget and freedom to do what you want would be incredible for just about any experienced person in any field to work with, so its not surprising they have a lot of takers. This is your chance to do something huge and get it on your resume, and it honestly feels low pressure enough that if you fail to accomplish your goal you can spin it into a learning process and try again. Without some high intensity investors demanding results 6 months before you even start. With claire it will be very much a sink or swim scenario, but in a pool rather than the ocean in a storm. Also the water is only 4 feet deep so you could probably stand up if it gets overwhelming.


I dislike the whole "every company in this comic is disorganized" thing, but that's not really what upsets me about this arc.

It's that we're being to asked to swallow something that is patently absurd with regards to Claire's qualifications.  The latest comic is trying to sell us on Claire's ability to do the job, and it's plainly BS.  Even in a normal scenario it would take years to be able to run an IS department.  Learning to build one from the ground up would be even harder.  Doing so in a totally unstructured environment like Cubetown is ridiculous.  And actually getting _hired_ for that role required an act of direct author fiat.

He's treating building a technical department for (what appears to be) the biggest research institute on the planet like Dora creating her coffee shop.  Doesn't really know what she's doing but hard work and persistence will pay off, right?

Nevermind that it's a management job and Claire has shown no propensity for management.  Nevermind that it's a massively high stress task and Claire has some of the worst stress issues in the comic.

It is unbelievable to me that Claire would consider this job for an instant.

----------


## Wraith

The "white" thing was supposed to be a joke about over-specification. White, male, scientist, benevolent to AI, has a quirky-humerous helper, scatter-brained, apparently incompetent, millionaire... "gEe couLd yOu bE morE sPeCiFiC i sTiLl dOn'T gEt wHo yOu mEaN!?  :Small Tongue:  " kind of thing. You would have been entirely welcome to hold up a plucked chicken as rebuttal.  :Small Wink: 

The actual issue is more to do with this:




> ... multiple billionaires you run across ...


Even if Jeph's twitter weren't thick with 'eat the rich' rhetoric, and even if Yay hadn't just described sitting on billions of dollars as 'monstrous' only a few dozen strips earlier, it's still weird how many times benevolent billionaires turn up to try and solve everyone's problems and everyone is perfectly happy about it.

----------


## Ionathus

Hmm, I appreciate the attempt today's comic made at giving Tai some connections outside of Dora (because she has pretty consistently had none)...but the Undergrad Greek Chorus ain't really doing it for me. Pretty clunky segue for what I'm assuming was just an excuse to set up the wedding date.

----------


## Rakaydos

> Hmm, I appreciate the attempt today's comic made at giving Tai some connections outside of Dora (because she has pretty consistently had none)...but the Undergrad Greek Chorus ain't really doing it for me. Pretty clunky segue for what I'm assuming was just an excuse to set up the wedding date.


Or at least, the beginnings of a plotline "back at the ranch" while our leads are touring cubetown.

----------


## tomandtish

> Yeah most of the red flags boil down to "Its disorganized." I think some people here have kind of inflated the horrors of cubetown a bit more than it needs to be. The upsides are honestly not really claires thing, but huge budget and freedom to do what you want would be incredible for just about any experienced person in any field to work with, so its not surprising they have a lot of takers. This is your chance to do something huge and get it on your resume, and it honestly feels low pressure enough that if you fail to accomplish your goal you can spin it into a learning process and try again. Without some high intensity investors demanding results 6 months before you even start. With claire it will be very much a sink or swim scenario, but in a pool rather than the ocean in a storm. Also the water is only 4 feet deep so you could probably stand up if it gets overwhelming.





> I think Moray's 'interview' (it feels insulting to dignify what actually happened using that word) was exactly as horrifying as it appeared. On the other hand, Jeph's drawing of Cubetown presents it as literally the largest structure every created on planet Earth, and if it survived winds, waves, and blizzards long enough to actually be built, then someone extremely responsible actually is operating there, just in some other sphere.



Yeah, there's a difference between disorganized and completely clueless. Based on what we've seen (so far) Cubetown falls into the latter category.

----------


## Ionathus

> Or at least, the beginnings of a plotline "back at the ranch" while our leads are touring cubetown.


Hopefully not - I'd find it baffling if he chose to introduce 3 new characters rather than use any of the ones he's already introduced then gotten bored of. I mean, I wouldn't really be baffled, because that's kinda his M.O....but I would be frustrated.

----------


## theangelJean

> Hopefully not - I'd find it baffling if he chose to introduce 3 new characters rather than use any of the ones he's already introduced then gotten bored of. I mean, I wouldn't really be baffled, because that's kinda his M.O....but I would be frustrated.


The character models are the "trio of new characters", enough that that was the first thing I thought of on seeing them, so I wouldn't be surprised. Each trio has a tall one and a short one; they are all different colours; they are all the same age; there's an attempt at different body shapes (although the attempts are getting less believable if anything). Off the top of my head, Claire and Willow were introduced as members of such trios, and I have a feeling there were others. I'm now wondering if you could classify Padme, Renee and what's his name, Clinton's boyfriend, as another such trio, except they were introduced in an actual setting rather than all together as a Greek chorus.

Edit, a month later: actually there was an example just six strips earlier than the library students.

----------


## Rodin

> The character models are the "trio of new characters", enough that that was the first thing I thought of on seeing them, so I wouldn't be surprised. Each trio has a tall one and a short one; they are all different colours; they are all the same age; there's an attempt at different body shapes (although the attempts are getting less believable if anything). Off the top of my head, Claire and Willow were introduced as members of such trios, and I have a feeling there were others. I'm now wondering if you could classify Padme, Renee and what's his name, Clinton's boyfriend, as another such trio, except they were introduced in an actual setting rather than all together as a Greek chorus.


I don't think Padma, Renee, and Eliot quite fit.  For one, they weren't introduced as a trio - there was a fourth nameless character who didn't return.  They were a one-off gag about Bizarro Coffee of Doom, and they took a while to matriculate properly into canon.  Padma was the only one who was really important for the most part until she began dating Marten and Eliot started getting some characterization.  Renee didn't get properly introduced until she rematerialized with a new look and personality to help tie Brun into the rest of the cast.

----------


## Wraith

I still don't understand why we had a timeskip of 'months' into the future.

Claire still hasn't found a better job. Tai and Dora still aren't married. People are still talking about the same tiny internet meme that 'just happened'. Nothing has happened to Union Robotics that appears worth mentioning. Why was there a skip instead of just having these stories *happen* in exactly the same way that they are now happening?

Did we *need* to give Tai an excuse for her hair to grow out, when we could have had one panel of "Hey Tai, I haven't seen you for ages, your hair looks nice"? Did we *need* to give Claire 6 months' experience in a job that she doesn't want, that she'll never return to, and that we didn't see in between? _Why did this happen?_

God help me, I'm actively wondering what happened between Rene and Dan - they're supposed to be testing a long distance relationship _and I want to know how it's going._

----------


## BRC

I think the intention is to have Dora and Tai's wedding as the last hurrah for this version of the cast, as Claire and Martin move to Cubetown. 

The function of the Timeskip is, I think, primarily that it would be weird to have the wedding just Happen without any acknowledgement that it's coming up, so they timeskip a few months so characters can be like "oh yeah, the Wedding is about to happen".

----------


## Ionathus

Jeph could have started the wedding arc on a random Tuesday with no foreshadowing and I would not have cared. He's never placed emphasis on the passage of time in this comic and I have never needed any emphasis. Things are chill, they happen when they happen. Count me among those who would've been fine without a time skip - not that the skip really bothered me, either.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

For all the stuff that hasn't happened, it could have been a week-long time skip and made more sense. Sure, separate the events with a little time, but months and nothing changed? Weird.

----------


## Wraith

> The function of the Timeskip is, I think, primarily that it would be weird to have the wedding just Happen without any acknowledgement that it's coming up, so they timeskip a few months so characters can be like "oh yeah, the Wedding is about to happen".


I get what you mean, but the wedding isn't just happening - its still 3 weeks away. Considering that Tai's proposal happened before Hannelore returned from walking the earth, or May getting her new chassis, or even Claire sitting her exams and then waiting for the results, it's already like we waited 4 or 5 months, to skip ~6 months, to now wait more weeks.

I mean, it's not BAD and planning weddings can take months or even years IRL, let alone in comic time... I just don't understand why Jeph bothered? Dora and Tai are getting married in someone's back yard, it's not like they had to wait months and save up thousands of dollars for a venue to open up, so we more or less skipped 6 months where nothing happened, and nothing happened for no reason? There's clearly things going on - Cubetown, etc - so why have Claire and Clinton pick up a conversation about something happening months ago as though it were only yesterday?

It's not a hill I intend to die on or anything, it's just odd and I'm genuinely wondering if there's an arc I've missed, or something.

----------


## Ionathus

I continue to not be sold on Elliott and Clinton as a couple. They may have been adorkable as mutual crushes (at least the first 5 times they got nervous), but so far their actual dates/conversations as a couple have been very boring with little to no personality. 

Also, "refocus your monomania"? Who talks like that? You expect me to believe _Elliott_ talks like that?

Also also, I don't understand why Claire's job interview is supposed to be more noteworthy than Clinton getting to speak to one of his biggest celebrities.

----------


## Mechalich

> I continue to not be sold on Elliott and Clinton as a couple. They may have been adorkable as mutual crushes (at least the first 5 times they got nervous), but so far their actual dates/conversations as a couple have been very boring with little to no personality.


Yeah, their relationship doesn't seem like one that would last very long. Of course, part of the problem is that we really have no idea regarding their interests outside of work: Clinton is into AIs and robotics and Eliot is into bread, but those are both _their jobs_. We have no idea what their hobbies might be or what they do when not hanging around a coffee shop. Clinton has it the worst, I don't think there's ever been any plotline that actually featured him doing any research at all or even on the Smif campus at all. 

It's possible that they could solidify their bond over shared outside interests. For example, I could see both Clinton and Elliot being massively into baseball - Clinton for the stats, Elliot for the pacing - and shared love of the Red Sox is a powerful romantic force in Massachusetts (powerful enough to spawn a 2005 rom-com), but we have no idea what either of these two are into beyond Elliot having a cat.

Early QC characters bonded over shared interests in music and later characters bonded over shared interests in various aspects of nerd culture, but most of the more recent pairings seem to have been built on little more than 'I think this person is both attractive and not an *******.' Now, to be sure, that's a starting point, and it might get a couple through a handful of dates, but it does not a relationship make.

----------


## Keltest

> Yeah, their relationship doesn't seem like one that would last very long. Of course, part of the problem is that we really have no idea regarding their interests outside of work: Clinton is into AIs and robotics and Eliot is into bread, but those are both _their jobs_. We have no idea what their hobbies might be or what they do when not hanging around a coffee shop. Clinton has it the worst, I don't think there's ever been any plotline that actually featured him doing any research at all or even on the Smif campus at all. 
> 
> It's possible that they could solidify their bond over shared outside interests. For example, I could see both Clinton and Elliot being massively into baseball - Clinton for the stats, Elliot for the pacing - and shared love of the Red Sox is a powerful romantic force in Massachusetts (powerful enough to spawn a 2005 rom-com), but we have no idea what either of these two are into beyond Elliot having a cat.
> 
> Early QC characters bonded over shared interests in music and later characters bonded over shared interests in various aspects of nerd culture, but most of the more recent pairings seem to have been built on little more than 'I think this person is both attractive and not an *******.' Now, to be sure, that's a starting point, and it might get a couple through a handful of dates, but it does not a relationship make.


You know, thats sort of a microcosm of Jeph's approach to new characters as a whole lately. None of the cast members introduced since... well, a long time ago, have had anything in common with the existing cast except being in the same room as them. And lo and behold, they stick around long enough to carry on a conversation and then exist the story with as much meaning as they entered with.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> It's not a hill I intend to die on or anything, it's just odd and I'm genuinely wondering if there's an arc I've missed, or something.


I don't think you've missed anything, and that most people are wondering as to the reason. Other than putting the shared-stream story solidly into the semi-distant past it didn't really do much.  




> Also, "refocus your monomania"? Who talks like that? You expect me to believe _Elliott_ talks like that?
> 
> Also also, I don't understand why Claire's job interview is supposed to be more noteworthy than Clinton getting to speak to one of his biggest celebrities.


I suspect someone else used the term regarding Clinton at some point and Elliott internalized that as 'the term for doing this.' I also suspect Jeph wanted to use a term other than 'obsession' and most other ways of saying this are sentence-long instead of single-word. But yes, no one* uses words or terms like this in casual conversation. 
*excepting maybe internet pedants. We here on these boards have a few of these in our holsters.

I would say that the potential for Clinton's sister to move out of town would be the first thing a normal person would mention, so it is notable.




> Yeah, their relationship doesn't seem like one that would last very long. Of course, part of the problem is that we really have no idea regarding their interests outside of work: Clinton is into AIs and robotics and Eliot is into bread, but those are both _their jobs_. We have no idea what their hobbies might be or what they do when not hanging around a coffee shop. Clinton has it the worst, I don't think there's ever been any plotline that actually featured him doing any research at all or even on the Smif campus at all.


Elliot and Clinton have the added issue in that their known situations/personality traits are relatively reactive -- Eliot is insecure and afraid of accidentally insulting/upsetting people, Clinton (other than obsession with AI and the movers and shakers in the AI world) is mostly protective of or exasperated by, his family. They're a little too zany to fill the straight man* role, but they generally serve the same purpose -- someone else comes along and does something, and then they react to it. Without that, they can just be people (or a couple, as we see here), but there isn't anything specifically *them* about them doing so. 
*two straight mans in a same-sex relationship, yes I saw the joke too.

----------


## Ionathus

> I would say that the potential for Clinton's sister to move out of town would be the first thing a normal person would mention, so it is notable.


I guess. But it's still only the _potential_ for Claire to get the job and move away. Whereas Clinton really DID meet Station, and that was a big deal for him already.

If my SO came and told me "omg I met Tamsyn Muir today and we had a conversation about the _Locked Tomb_ series" followed by "also my sister had a job interview with Google, if she gets it she'd move," I wouldn't find that sequence comment-worthy: those are both momentous pieces of news. I certainly wouldn't interrupt her excitement to make an eyerolling wisecrack. I'd be freaking out alongside her about the Tamsyn Muir thing but that's beside the point

This isn't that big of a gripe. Like, I get that it's supposed to be another funny _haha your priorities are wrong_ joke at Clinton's expense, but I'm kind of tired of those jokes already, especially since it seems like Clinton is always required to be comically wrong when it comes to Claire. So when we get an instance like this, where his behavior doesn't even strike me as wrong, it's annoying to see the comic immediately smack him down for getting excited about things that interest him.




> *two straight mans in a same-sex relationship, yes I saw the joke too.


 :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Traab

Yeah im with claire potentially getting a super big deal job that involves moving to another country as being a bit more important than briefly meeting a celebrity.

----------


## Wraith

I'm with Ionathus. Elliot barely knows Claire - she used him as a swing-set that one time, and that's about it - so why would he be all that interested in her kind-of maybe not-quite successful job interview? 

If my other half came home, gushing and excited because they had done something for themselves that they considered important, I'm sure I wouldn't try to change the subject, let alone to one about how they were bring upstaged by their sibling. I don't even dislike my sister-in-law, but frankly there's almost nothing she could do that would be more important to me than my wife's happiness.

----------


## Ionathus

> Yeah im with claire potentially getting a super big deal job that involves moving to another country as being a bit more important than briefly meeting a celebrity.


Even if it *is* more important, is the degree of importance so severe that you'd interrupt your SO talking about the thing that really gets them excited so you could chastise them about it?

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Yeah im with claire potentially getting a super big deal job that involves moving to another country as being a bit more important than briefly meeting a celebrity.


You think it's more important to Clinton? Are you kidding? 

I can tell you from experience that when something mildly important like a new job or a new house happens in one of my siblings lives, I feel happy for them. But there's no way that would be as important to me as something huge happening in my own life.

It totally makes sense to me that Clinton meeting one of his idols, even briefly, completely overshadows his sister getting a cool job offer. That might change if and when she accepts the offer, or as the time of her moving away arrives, but right now Clinton is still excited about getting to talk to Station. It's perfectly normal that he feels this way.

----------


## Radar

> Holy **** the first semester took 11 years


So... just like in real life?  :Small Wink:

----------


## Rodin

> Yeah, their relationship doesn't seem like one that would last very long. Of course, part of the problem is that we really have no idea regarding their interests outside of work: Clinton is into AIs and robotics and Eliot is into bread, but those are both _their jobs_. We have no idea what their hobbies might be or what they do when not hanging around a coffee shop. Clinton has it the worst, I don't think there's ever been any plotline that actually featured him doing any research at all or even on the Smif campus at all. 
> 
> It's possible that they could solidify their bond over shared outside interests. For example, I could see both Clinton and Elliot being massively into baseball - Clinton for the stats, Elliot for the pacing - and shared love of the Red Sox is a powerful romantic force in Massachusetts (powerful enough to spawn a 2005 rom-com), but we have no idea what either of these two are into beyond Elliot having a cat.
> 
> Early QC characters bonded over shared interests in music and later characters bonded over shared interests in various aspects of nerd culture, but most of the more recent pairings seem to have been built on little more than 'I think this person is both attractive and not an *******.' Now, to be sure, that's a starting point, and it might get a couple through a handful of dates, but it does not a relationship make.


I think the last couple that really made sense to me (other than as short term flings) was Faye and Bubbles.  Bubbles showed the ability to keep up with Faye's banter, something she shares with both of Faye's former boyfriends.  They have a shared interest in metalwork - yes, it's their job, but it's still a shared interest.  They're both strong on the outside with fragile interiors and cover for each other when that shell cracks.  

The other relationships don't work for me outside of short term "you're here, you're cute, you're available" flings.  That weirdly includes Dora and Tai, who I can't really recall sharing many interests either.

----------


## Ionathus

Gosh, I miss Faye & Bubbles. I really enjoyed the slow burn of them warming up to each other.

----------


## Gez

> That weirdly includes Dora and Tai, who I can't really recall sharing many interests either.


There was more chemistry in that one strip of Dora and Marten walking down the street than in all of the Dora and Tai strips together.

----------


## Wraith

I remember a little while ago when Claire almost had a fit because Aurelia was slightly-less than completely enthusiastic about Claire getting a job in a coffee shop, instead of a library like she had been expecting. We talked about it for a while - some thought that Aurelia had been rude and was being intrusive by coming in to Coffee of Doom to smother Claire while she was working, others felt that Claire was being irrational because she was holding it against Aurelia for having made a small but understandable mistake and immediately apologised for it.

I'm finding it harder to sympathise with Claire now - when her mom DOES show her sincere support and positivity for her new job, just like she wanted, she immediately turns her back mid-conversation and checks her 'phone anyway. Rude.

----------


## Mechalich

> I'm finding it harder to sympathise with Claire now - when her mom DOES show her sincere support and positivity for her new job, just like she wanted, she immediately turns her back mid-conversation and checks her 'phone anyway. Rude.


I think that panel was meant to imply that Aurelia was stunned into silence for a sufficiently lengthy period of time that Claire felt okay pulling out her phone. 

I mean Aurelia asked 'what's the worst that could happen?' and Claire deadpanned 'I might die horribly.' That's the kind of response that can cause MomVibes.exe to hit a fatal error and need to reboot.

----------


## Kish

> I remember a little while ago when Claire almost had a fit because Aurelia was slightly-less than completely enthusiastic about Claire getting a job in a coffee shop, instead of a library like she had been expecting. We talked about it for a while - some thought that Aurelia had been rude and was being intrusive by coming in to Coffee of Doom to smother Claire while she was working, others felt that Claire was being irrational because she was holding it against Aurelia for having made a small but understandable mistake and immediately apologised for it.
> 
> I'm finding it harder to sympathise with Claire now


Seriously? Never before or in this post have you described that event without a ton of distortions to make Claire look worse, so when exactly were you sympathizing with her at all?

----------


## Rodin

For a serious response to the "What's the worst that can happen if Claire takes the job":

They either have to fork out for breaking their lease on the apartment or figure out a way for Faye and Bubbles to afford the place on their own.  They have to pay all the moving expenses, since this isn't like moving down the street.  Claire could get hit with severe longterm mental issues if it all goes wrong.  She gets a black mark on her resume (which thus far only has college intern and barista on it).  She loses her medical insurance, because her medical insurance is tied to her job.  Marten loses his job by virtue of moving away, and then would lose whatever job he picks up at Cubetown when they have to move away again.  Moving away again racks up another set of expenses.  They wind up back in Northampton having to negotiate a new lease on an apartment with much higher prices than they previously were paying as long-term residents.

And that's honestly a conservative estimate.  If she screws up spectacularly enough she makes the news as an unqualified person hired who accidentally destroyed a bunch of research when the database crashes because she didn't set it up right with her non-existent Comp Sci skills.

Again, the insane risk of accepting a job you aren't qualified for in a different country (or off the coast of one at least) is being horribly understated.

----------


## Wraith

> I think that panel was meant to imply that Aurelia was stunned into silence for a sufficiently lengthy period of time that Claire felt okay pulling out her phone.


Eh, maybe. Claire already has her back to Aurelia in panel 2 as she's being asked, and then just stands there so it's not like she's walking into another room. It might just be a pet-peeve of mine, I hate it when I'm talking to someone and their nose is buried in a screen.




> That's the kind of response that can cause MomVibes.exe to hit a fatal error and need to reboot.


That makes sense. I still get caught out by the disconnect of Aurelia being a successful fetish streamer with thousands of followers sending her NSFW fanart, and also someone who struggles with sarcasm and slang. It's hard to imagine being terminally online, but also caught out by dark/gallows humour.




> Seriously? Never before or in this post have you described that event without a ton of distortions to make Claire look worse, so when exactly were you sympathizing with her at all?


No snark from me, and no attempt at 'Gotcha!' or other such internet points scoring - What did I get wrong, please?

I mean that, I thought I was being relatively even handed. Claire told Aurelia she had a new job, and Aurelia was happy for her because she assumed it was at a library, like Claire has always been excited for. When Claire revealed it was "only" at a coffee shop and Aurelia deflated because its not as prestigious - which its not, as Claire herself had said - this upset Claire and she left, despite an immediate and sincere apology from Aurelia, and held a grudge about it for what was implied to be several days.

Okay, 'had a fit' might be too strong a-phrase for the delivery, but it conveyed the discord between them that was mostly one-sided. Similarly, there _was_ some controversy on GitP and other boards where some people took Claire's side because Aurelia followed her to work and pestered her to apologise again, whereas some people thought that Claire was being too sensitive about an innocent mistake based on her vague information.

What about that is incorrect? I'll happily amend anything that I have missed, but I remain entitled to my opinion that Claire wanted genuine praise from Aurelia and today she got it, but her own actions then come across as dismissive.

----------


## Vinyadan

Wow, first Claire strip that registered to me as honestly good since she came out to Marten. Dora talking to Marten was also OK. If the comic were always this grounded, I probably would check it more often.

----------


## theNater

> They either have to fork out for breaking their lease on the apartment or figure out a way for Faye and Bubbles to afford the place on their own.  They have to pay all the moving expenses, since this isn't like moving down the street.


Given Cubetown's resources and the job they're asking Claire to do, moving expenses and a signing bonus should be part of her contract.  These two will only be issues if Claire forgets to ask or Cubetown suddenly becomes uncharacteristically stingy.

----------


## Traab

> Given Cubetown's resources and the job they're asking Claire to do, moving expenses and a signing bonus should be part of her contract.  These two will only be issues if Claire forgets to ask or Cubetown suddenly becomes uncharacteristically stingy.


Honestly, if she is getting hired to be the Director of an entire branch of the company, she had better be getting the kind of paycheck that does this to her. So even if the worst happens and inside a few months the whole thing falls apart, she likely made enough money to go back to the coffee of doom with a nice cushion.

----------


## otakuryoga

Claire broke mom....

----------


## Kish

> No snark from me, and no attempt at 'Gotcha!' or other such internet points scoring - What did I get wrong, please?
> 
> I mean that, I thought I was being relatively even handed.


Your first sentence was inches from: I remember this time when Claire was a monster and Aurelia was a saint. _After that_, I can see the effort of even-handed terminology--even while giving it a D; that section is still full of exculpatory terminology for only one of them (Aurelia's flat "oh" was being "slightly-less than completely enthusiastic," and what Aurelia did was understandable! And small! And her apology was immediate!).

You are absolutely entitled to your consistently and totally negative opinions on Claire and her every action, and I am entitled to boggle when you say you're _finding it harder to sympathize with her now_.

----------


## VoxRationis

I wish _my_ workplace would let me take time off with 24 hours' notice. I understand why Claire and Marten can--I don't think it's an issue in the writing at all--but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

----------


## Wraith

I've defended Aurelia before, thinking that Claire was being over-sensitive over a trivial matter based on an obvious misunderstanding.

Not today. This is just uncomfortably manipulative, if not outright narcissistic, of Aurelia. I really hope 'insecure helicopter mom' doesn't become her new personality now that the vtuber thing has been put in a box and forgotten.

More kids should have the confidence to tell such emotional leeches to back off and shut up.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

Aurelia: "Why didn't you come to me so we can ask my super-AI friend which you don't know about?"  :Small Confused:

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Aurelia: "Why didn't you come to me so we can ask my super-AI friend which you don't know about?"


Yeah, I don't think that was supposed to be rational. Jeph's been kinda telegraphing since she found out that Aurelia would be bad at keeping that secret (or at least that's what I read into it).

----------


## Mechalich

I really hope Jeph's acknowledgment of hurricane impacts in the greater Halifax area makes into the comic vis a vis Cubetown's ability to survive or not survive periodic storms of this nature (Nova Scotia gets hit by a hurricane roughly once a decade). I mean, it is a rather serendipitous intersection of real life and comic life events.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Is it petty to feel weird that the most he said about the hurricane was "It sucked, who knows when I'll have power again, comics probably won't be interrupted"? Seems like he's got bigger things to worry about than posting a webcomic, at the moment.

Aside from that, I do like Yay's outfit in this strip. Not sure why they're lurching in some sort of mid-pounce stance in panel 1, but I guess it's one of those weird mid-motion poses that comic artists love to draw.

----------


## theangelJean

I think that's supposed to be a "mid-running-in while shouting urgently" stance, with the leg that's further from us extending back off panel.

----------


## hungrycrow

Given the lack of transition between scenes, did Yay bug Aurelia's house?

----------


## Traab

> Given the lack of transition between scenes, did Yay bug Aurelia's house?


Yay has shown themself to be aware of all sorts of things going on in random locations. That being said, I could easily see yay having some form of bugging of every location where they have been and made themselves known in some fashion.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> Given the lack of transition between scenes, did Yay bug Aurelia's house?


Id argue as long as there is any microphone connected in any way to the internet, Yay will hear you talk.

----------


## Willie the Duck

I could see this simply being a 'conservation of interesting details' moment and it be the next day and Aurelia called Yay and told her these things and Jeph simply didn't find a funny way for that to happen worthy of a 4-6 panels. 

That said, it'd be kinda hilarious if Yay did determine this through a listening device, walks in as _'your mom's wacky AI friend who is a perfectly normal (in terms of capabilities and background) oddball robot friend who is giving her computer advise, and totally not a catfisher (or creepy AI demigod you should tell the authorities about)_' and Claire simply asks, _'how did you know we were talking about Mom's AI friend, and that I thought they were a catfisher?'_ Certainly would be a good way to show Yay not-so-brilliant-after-all, although at this point we've gotten so much of that I, I'm kinda done needing to take them down a peg and more worried that it makes less and less sense that they ever kept a secret in the first place (although for that it would also almost be funny if we saw some FBI agents checking their computers going,_ 'oh, hey, the Squidbot just revealed their 'secret' identify again.' 'Really? Huh, in the service of anything?' 'Nope.' 'Pass the donuts.'_).

----------


## geoduck

> I could see this simply being a 'conservation of interesting details' moment and it be the next day and Aurelia called Yay and told her these things and Jeph simply didn't find a funny way for that to happen worthy of a 4-6 panels. 
> 
> That said, it'd be kinda hilarious if Yay did determine this through a listening device, walks in as _'your mom's wacky AI friend who is a perfectly normal (in terms of capabilities and background) oddball robot friend who is giving her computer advise, and totally not a catfisher (or creepy AI demigod you should tell the authorities about)_' and Claire simply asks, _'how did you know we were talking about Mom's AI friend, and that I thought they were a catfisher?'_ Certainly would be a good way to show Yay not-so-brilliant-after-all, although at this point we've gotten so much of that I, I'm kinda done needing to take them down a peg and more worried that it makes less and less sense that they ever kept a secret in the first place (although for that it would also almost be funny if we saw some FBI agents checking their computers going,_ 'oh, hey, the Squidbot just revealed their 'secret' identify again.' 'Really? Huh, in the service of anything?' 'Nope.' 'Pass the donuts.'_).


I think it's been noted that Yay isn't that old, so maybe they've always been bad at keeping secrets, and the instant they venture out in public, they start screwing up.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> I think it's been noted that Yay isn't that old, so maybe they've always been bad at keeping secrets, and the instant they venture out in public, they start screwing up.


Yay is definetly a LOT younger than they let on. But they want to act in a way that argues "2 years in meatspace is 200 for me in virtual space" but i think their character's vulnerability is because ultimately, their 200 years will always be just an echo chamber with their own thoughts, and they actually only have 2 years of experience with interacting with the world.

I will maybe give them some slack on "more bodies can have more interaction and allow faster growth", but its clearly not a 1:1  otherwise they'd have grown a lot more mature by now.

----------


## Mechalich

> I will maybe give them some slack on "more bodies can have more interaction and allow faster growth", but its clearly not a 1:1  otherwise they'd have grown a lot more mature by now.


The multiple bodies bit may actually slow them down. Yay's growth is largely reliant on its acceptance of various other characters to provide them with the parenting they never previously received. However, if there are other bodies and/or bodiless instances of their form running around it may be only one node of the gestalt that is experiencing significant growth and when integrated across the whole the impact is considerably diluted.

----------


## theangelJean

> The multiple bodies bit may actually slow them down. Yay's growth is largely reliant on its acceptance of various other characters to provide them with the parenting they never previously received. However, if there are other bodies and/or bodiless instances of their form running around it may be only one node of the gestalt that is experiencing significant growth and when integrated across the whole the impact is considerably diluted.


I guess that depends on how AI learning happens in this setting (which is probably completely unknown, but oh well). Current theory is that organisms with neurones learn by adjusting the connections between neurones, strengthening pathways that are used more frequently, weakening pathways that are seldom used, occasionally removing unused connections. If an equivalent to neural pathways exists in QC AI, then perhaps Yay could learn that "doing X leads to criticism from others /negative consequences leading to feelings of shame" and use that same pathway in decision-making for all their bodies. 

Or not, as I understand that distributed processing works completely differently and is (in itself) absolutely not equivalent to a neural pathway. (You can do neural nets distributed over hardware networks, but my husband is the expert on that one.) And who knows if AI in QC-verse use neural network-based learning anyway.

----------


## Wraith

> I think it's been noted that Yay isn't that old, so maybe they've always been bad at keeping secrets, and the instant they venture out in public, they start screwing up.


I think the weird part that people are struggling with is that we have been shown exactly the opposite, until fairly recently.

Our introduction to Yay involved her capturing and interrogating Corpse Witch, handing incriminating evidence in procedurally-correct form to Roko, interacting with Emily regarding her experience in Bubbles' head and potential thesis, and generally being incredibly competent at handling a potentially dangerous situation that, if it went wrong, would have outed them as a super-bot and exposed them to - at the very least - the police who might have to take an interest in an AI that assaults and tortures people for obviously dubious and probably illegal reasons. To say nothing of exposing them to other super-bots like Station, and potentially whatever it is that runs places like Cubetown.

Now they're fretting over an opinion that they feel is inaccurate, from a stranger they have never met, and don't know what to do about it. That's... just not the same person, and not for the first time it's reminded me of the theory that was brought up that Yay could well be an annexed individual from the Squid-bot entity, which explains why a) they need a charging pod in Roko's complex (they're effectively otherwise homeless) and b) appear to be a cretin without the support of their hive-mind.

It would certainly be a way more interesting story than "Super-Powerful AI acts like a bratty teenager because they're forced to have conversations with people".

----------


## Vinyadan

I think that a "getting down to earth" development could be interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot get beyond the fact that she kidnapped and tortured someone and the issue has not been addressed adequately.

----------


## Willie the Duck

Note on today's strip: Okay, so they know about it, but it is the same night, and they weren't eavesdropping. I'm guessing that means Aurelia texted them about this in an down moment or similar.




> I think it's been noted that Yay isn't that old, so maybe they've always been bad at keeping secrets, and the instant they venture out in public, they start screwing up.


I think the venture out part of that might be the issue. Yay started out being (both in the story and in their personal interactions) an aloof overbeing, not really socially connected with individuals and not really trying to play within everyone else's frameworks or rulebooks. Once they decided to start interacting with people at those people's level, they opened up a whole new level of interaction for which they had no rules, strategy, or specific advantage.




> Now they're fretting over an opinion that they feel is inaccurate, from a stranger they have never met, and don't know what to do about it. That's... just not the same person, and not for the first time it's reminded me of the theory that was brought up that Yay could well be an annexed individual from the Squid-bot entity, which explains why a) they need a charging pod in Roko's complex (they're effectively otherwise homeless) and b) appear to be a cretin without the support of their hive-mind.
> 
> It would certainly be a way more interesting story than "Super-Powerful AI acts like a bratty teenager because they're forced to have conversations with people".


Do you mean exiled? I don't know what an annexed individual would be. Regardless, I wonder if it would make a difference if instead of "Super-Powerful AI" they were "formerly Super-Powerful AI." Those seem like they serve many of the same stories. 




> I think that a "getting down to earth" development could be interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot get beyond the fact that she kidnapped and tortured someone and the issue has not been addressed adequately.


I mean, if that's something you can't get beyond, I certainly can't tell you otherwise. However, I think that's just one of those things where the writer(s) have moved on and aren't going back to. This episode Frank Burns gets drunk and chummy and Hawkeye/Trapper almost start to like him, so we're just not talking about the episodes where he tried to get Hawkeye or Col. Blake found guilty of treason or mutiny (and conceivably executed). Spike is replacing Cordelia as overly-blunt not-always-liked ally, so we give him a pain-response no-killing chip (so he's all fine, let him babysit). Londo shows remorse for the war of near-extinction against your people that he initiated for political gain, G'kar, c'mon, be a pal. And so on. What a character did way-back-when served those storylines, and we're out here in the present and how they serve the story now is what matters. Honestly, it makes more sense when you have paid actors or otherwise have a strong incentive to keep using the same character despite their baggage (but still no strong incentive to continue to focus on their past story arcs). I guess having Squidbot disappear forever and then having to introduce Yay as _another_ super-powerful AI without the previous baggage would have been odd, so if Jeph really liked the notion of these types of stories (which, in all honesty, are find in theory, I just haven't liked the specific implementation overly much), I guess it makes sense.

----------


## Wraith

> Do you mean exiled? I don't know what an annexed individual would be. Regardless, I wonder if it would make a difference if instead of "Super-Powerful AI" they were "formerly Super-Powerful AI." Those seem like they serve many of the same stories.


Yes, probably. I thought it meant "to make separate from", but having double checked, only in the context of documents so... sure.

It'd at least be a handwave to explain it. Yay was exiled from Squidbot, and they weren't allowed to take much of their hive-mind memories with them, because "wacky AI stuff", hence why they're now a dumbass. Just anything, would be nice.

Heck, this story would explain such a lot about them. Why they're desperately seeking approval from Roko (trying to build a new 'family' to replace the one they were removed from), why they transgress on other people (they've never had to ask the hivemind for permission before and need to learn it), why they're such a dork (SOCIALIZATION.EXE had to be removed because it included sensitive Squid-bot data)... The list could go on.




> I mean, if that's something you can't get beyond, I certainly can't tell you otherwise. However, I think that's just one of those things where the writer(s) have moved on and aren't going back to.


You're not at all wrong, but I note that in each of the examples you gave they're all still considered Bad People and those storylines were criticised and even mocked by the people who watched them because "They're good now, honest!" still doesn't excuse a lifetime of evil.

"Yay kidnapped and tortured another sentient being" being waved away with "Aren't they so quirky and uwu cute now?" isn't a good story. We *want* QC to have good stories, if that weren't clear already.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Vinyadan

I like the current development, let's see how deep it goes.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> I like the current development, let's see how deep it goes.


Looks (at this point) like Yay will acknowledge their Squidbot transgressions, but most of the personal growth will be in re-cap/they describe it happens (telling, not showing). So, I don't know, 50%?

----------


## Wraith

This is the first time in a while that I have unirionically enjoyed the dialogue in QC.

Just Claire saying, "I have been offered a job at Cubetown" and Yay bursting into hysteric, schadenfreudian laugher is appropriate for the characters, it strikes me as completely honest AND accurate to the situation, and reminds me of Yay being scathing about her inferiors rather than bratty and whiny.

I like it when people look at the AIs and just go: "No." More please.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

So the most recent comic seems to confirm to me that Jeph has a really bad case of Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale. Cubetown is way too big, and necessarily employs thousands (more likely tens of thousands or even over one hundred thousand) people, for Claire's hiring to be significant to anything beyond some tiny research team. 

Now, I don't really want to beat Jeph up to hard over this, since as the linked TVTropes page makes pretty clear, _everyone_ screws this up, but it really feels like he rammed the plot into this trope at maximum force.

----------


## Traab

Honestly, with the way cubetown gets talked up lately, im thinking jeph really does intend for this to work. Claire basically gets to stretch her capabilities, be the mature one, and gain a lot of experience in a lot of areas, while working in a place where even if she messes up it wont be a huge problem because the place is always chaos anyways. So its honestly low pressure for a high pressure job. Like, im sure she will stress out over it, but the company or whatever overarching command setup there is, wont have much of an issue with her at all, giving her time to find her feet and maybe even discover she is good at being in charge.

----------


## Rodin

> Honestly, with the way cubetown gets talked up lately, im thinking jeph really does intend for this to work. Claire basically gets to stretch her capabilities, be the mature one, and gain a lot of experience in a lot of areas, while working in a place where even if she messes up it wont be a huge problem because the place is always chaos anyways. So its honestly low pressure for a high pressure job. Like, im sure she will stress out over it, but the company or whatever overarching command setup there is, wont have much of an issue with her at all, giving her time to find her feet and maybe even discover she is good at being in charge.


That's what the arc is going to be, no matter how nonsensical it is.

Having spent the day dealing with my own work's incompetent HR department (which is likely to result in a good chunk of my department seeking other jobs), I'm not having a lot of tolerance for the "it's fine to work for a terrible company because wacky hijinks!" storyline that's coming here.

----------


## Mechalich

I think the situation could be drastically improved by instituting a split. Specifically by having there be Cubetown, the facility, and Cubetown, the research organization. The facility, and those who manage it, should be incredibly serious business, but also highly subdued. For example, if the giant cube part of Cubetown is some kind of massive reserve server used by high-powered AIs as an emergency backup is case of global internet collapse it can just quietly hum in the background, running the base without ever active intervening in the plot. In that situation the research organization can be a bunch of eccentric people who were given use of some of the peripheral facility structures that were no longer needed after setup. This is rather like how bits of discarded industrial space are sometimes given to universities or museums after they are no longer needed out of charity/tax write-off (for example, the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry in Portland was built out of a power plant donated by the local GE). 

If the research group at Cubetown is only a few dozen people puttering around in mostly empty building someone else made with the only restraint being some all-powerful oversight AI saying 'Thou shalt not enter the Cube,' then I can see Claire fitting in and making this work out. And Moray's existence as seemingly the entirety of the Sapient Resources department suggests that 'a few dozen' is the operational scale that's active here. if there's only a few dozen researchers then the resulting Information Science department might end up being only five or six people/AIs and while Claire isn't qualified to set that up, it's not some kind of impossible challenge, especially if she receives a bit of assistance in the terms of massive amounts of cash and advanced AI capabilities. 

I mean, I can imagine an alternative version of this plotline where Cubetown was simply the name for a new university outside of Halifax that happened to have a particular architectural fetish which would be much more plausible.

----------


## Traab

> I think the situation could be drastically improved by instituting a split. Specifically by having there be Cubetown, the facility, and Cubetown, the research organization. The facility, and those who manage it, should be incredibly serious business, but also highly subdued. For example, if the giant cube part of Cubetown is some kind of massive reserve server used by high-powered AIs as an emergency backup is case of global internet collapse it can just quietly hum in the background, running the base without ever active intervening in the plot. In that situation the research organization can be a bunch of eccentric people who were given use of some of the peripheral facility structures that were no longer needed after setup. This is rather like how bits of discarded industrial space are sometimes given to universities or museums after they are no longer needed out of charity/tax write-off (for example, the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry in Portland was built out of a power plant donated by the local GE). 
> 
> If the research group at Cubetown is only a few dozen people puttering around in mostly empty building someone else made with the only restraint being some all-powerful oversight AI saying 'Thou shalt not enter the Cube,' then I can see Claire fitting in and making this work out. And Moray's existence as seemingly the entirety of the Sapient Resources department suggests that 'a few dozen' is the operational scale that's active here. if there's only a few dozen researchers then the resulting Information Science department might end up being only five or six people/AIs and while Claire isn't qualified to set that up, it's not some kind of impossible challenge, especially if she receives a bit of assistance in the terms of massive amounts of cash and advanced AI capabilities. 
> 
> I mean, I can imagine an alternative version of this plotline where Cubetown was simply the name for a new university outside of Halifax that happened to have a particular architectural fetish which would be much more plausible.


It honestly feels like a commune thats evolving into a company. A group of people with crazy ideas got together so they could work on said ideas. Then as they got started, they realized they needed to do this, so someone took that on. Then they realized they needed to do that, so someone else took THAT on. Im betting they realized they needed outside help, so moray volunteered to do it so now she is the defacto sapient resources head. It may be a smallish group of ais and such, or it may just be that they are slowly piecing together everything they need and there are a lot of them doing their own thing with a few random people saying "Hey we need this, since you noticed it first, you get to handle it." Which is supported by claires new job offer. She figured out something they needed, moray realized she was right, and boom, since you realized whats missing, you fill the gap. Nobody is expecting perfection, they are all stumbling around trying to figure it out as they go. And just about anything you can cobble together is better than the nothing they had before, so its a virtual no lose scenario.

----------


## Mechalich

> It honestly feels like a commune thats evolving into a company. A group of people with crazy ideas got together so they could work on said ideas. Then as they got started, they realized they needed to do this, so someone took that on. Then they realized they needed to do that, so someone else took THAT on. Im betting they realized they needed outside help, so moray volunteered to do it so now she is the defacto sapient resources head. It may be a smallish group of ais and such, or it may just be that they are slowly piecing together everything they need and there are a lot of them doing their own thing with a few random people saying "Hey we need this, since you noticed it first, you get to handle it." Which is supported by claires new job offer. She figured out something they needed, moray realized she was right, and boom, since you realized whats missing, you fill the gap. Nobody is expecting perfection, they are all stumbling around trying to figure it out as they go. And just about anything you can cobble together is better than the nothing they had before, so its a virtual no lose scenario.


The comparative example that springs to mind with regard to Cubetown, to me, is Biosphere 2, a piece of engineering and construction prowess that sprang from the wallet of an eccentric billionaire whose complexity vastly exceeded the management capacity of the people who initially tried to run in, resulting in fairly disastrous consequences that ultimately included bankruptcy and conversion of the complex into a university-managed research facility. 

Assuming Yay's right and the facility is unlikely to sink into the sea, the big risk is probably legal. If the project really is run by a tiny cabal with eccentric ownership and dubious management, there's a not-insignificant chance that some point of law will end up being violated through either incompetence or active malice (the immigration law bits I harped on earlier is one possibility, but there's also things like workplace safety, tax law, various environmental impact laws, and so on) and everyone will end up being fined/sued for everything they own - though in that case Claire's lack of citizenship would actually protect her, since in terms of civil consequences Canada can't really do much more than kick you out. Tip to Claire: if you take the job, make Cubetown pay your salary to a US bank.

----------


## Cikomyr2

That was so cute

----------


## Willie the Duck

> That was so cute


Agreed, except: I do not find the art itself cute in this. Jeph has reverse Simpsons issue -- his noses are great dead on, but in profile the closer the framing gets to a profile shot, the more they look to me like rhinoceros horns.

----------


## Mordokai

I dearly love the last two updates.

Feels very much like the "old QC".

----------


## Radar

> I dearly love the last two updates.
> 
> Feels very much like the "old QC".


That's pretty much how it felt to me as well to be honest. Let's see how things go from here.

----------


## DaFlipp

Anyone else think today's comic is a pretty intentional parallel to this one? If so, seems like a very nice, understated way to show how much more secure Marten's current relationship is than his last (major) one.

----------


## Wraith

Absolutely intentional. And also a good, if subtle way of showing that Claire is thinking about Marten all the time.

There's more than a little grumbling on Reddit that Marten is going along with the prospect of moving too easily and that no one is really challenging him 'properly', but this strip gives a sweet indication that Claire and Marten *are* on the same page naturally, without having to spell their intentions out at every step. Marten and Dora's relationship was more fun, but Marten and Claire's relationship is clearly _better_.

----------


## Rodin

> Absolutely intentional. And also a good, if subtle way of showing that Claire is thinking about Marten all the time.
> 
> There's more than a little grumbling on Reddit that Marten is going along with the prospect of moving too easily and that no one is really challenging him 'properly', but this strip gives a sweet indication that Claire and Marten *are* on the same page naturally, without having to spell their intentions out at every step. Marten and Dora's relationship was more fun, but Marten and Claire's relationship is clearly _better_.


Claire and Marten's relationship has always felt one of the better written ones to me.  There was a lot of obvious chemistry on the page before they considered getting together, and the relationship itself dovetails nicely with their individual character traits to show a pair that are "good for each other".

I'd say it's my second favorite behind Sven and Faye's.  Going back and re-reading those comics shows how thoroughly Jeph planned out their relationship arc, and I think he absolutely nailed it.

Third best would be Faye and Bubbles, but that's mainly because I like them as a couple.  They lose out to the other two relationships because Bubbles was clearly written in as a love interest for Faye, making the whole thing feel quite artificial no matter how good the relationship turned out.

----------


## Wraith

> Claire and Marten's relationship has always felt one of the better written ones to me.  There was a lot of obvious chemistry on the page before they considered getting together, and the relationship itself dovetails nicely with their individual character traits to show a pair that are "good for each other".


I think that's why a lot of readers "don't get it". If you're cynical and looking for flaws or conflict, you could misinterpret them as being placid, or luke-warm towards each other, but through a normal lens they're just... happy together. They compliment each other and get on well without needing to resort to endless verbal sparring matches and angsting. It says a lot about QC that a healthy relationship comes along and we don't know what to do with it  :Small Tongue: 




> I'd say it's my second favorite behind Sven and Faye's. Going back and re-reading those comics shows how thoroughly Jeph planned out their relationship arc, and I think he absolutely nailed it.


I kinda wish we got more out of Sven and May. I liked their chemistry and humour, and I feel like there was a lot of potential for an arc where their relationship is a nightmare, but both are trying to be better people - May as an ex-con and Sven as a non-narcissist - and so we'd get a natural progression in both as they messed up and then sought to address the flaws in their enjoyably snarky way.

----------


## Mechalich

> It says a lot about QC that a healthy relationship comes along and we don't know what to do with it


Not really. Healthy relationships are _boring_ that's why romance-driven comedies and dramas alike tend to avoid them. If the relationship is generally healthy, then once the ship comes in it's possible to smash cut to 'and they lived happily ever after' without sounding ridiculous. And, if Claire had just gotten a job offer from the Seattle Public Library or something similar that's what would be happening right now. 

Now, it is possible to have a healthy relationship in a sitcom around which other less healthy ones orbit, for purposes of comparison, support, and so on. And Marten, and to a lesser degree the Marten/Claire combo has in fact long played this role (Claire advised Clinton on the Elliot bit, for example). The problem has been as the comic has shifted focus to other characters its moved onto people, especially other females, that Marten doesn't know well, doesn't live in the same building with, and doesn't have a reason to talk to.

----------


## VoxRationis

It seems to me like there would be a pretty significant chance of Faye's scenario (of Marten becoming a layabout trophy boyfriend) coming to pass. As far as I can tell through a brief reread of the Cubetown strips so far, I don't see a specific reference to pay, but given the resources they seem to possess and the less than scrupulous attitude shown towards screening candidates, I suspect the pay should be plenty remunerative, and with room and board likely covered by the employer*, it should be far in excess of what is needed to support two people comfortably. Meanwhile, I would also hazard a guess that domestic housework would probably be light to none; an organization so tech-focused and resource-rich probably has at least one group dedicated to the development and employment of (possibly non-sentient, though they could be like the drones on Station) robot servitors. It might well turn out that Marten is left with nothing to do in terms of productive labor, which would raise an interesting conundrum, for it both seems unfair that one member of a couple performs all the work and unfair that someone might be compelled to labor unnecessarily for no other reason than to assuage another's feelings.



*This assuming Cubetown _isn't_ "a nightmarish techno-cult from which there is no escape"; such an institution might well use prohibitively expensive room and board as a means of control.

----------


## Wraith

There's only been one comic so far that shows the Cubetown employees other than the goo-girl - they're 2/3rds interested specifically in how cute Marten is, so if he can't use his novelty value to land a generic part-time job (to say nothing of his general competence and office/admin experience) almost immediately, then I'll eat this post.  :Small Tongue: 

Hell, I'll given even-odds that he ends up as a barista in a coffee shop, from sheer irony. In fact, Dora was always saying she had thoughts about opening up a second store so why not in Cubetown? The place is pretty new, they might not even have a coffee shop yet - Dora has unique experience selling to AIs, it could be made a franchise!

----------


## Traab

Yeah marten could easily get hired by the place himself. We know they hire janitorial staff, so its not all directors and department heads. Heck, he may be the one doing the library style work under claire due to his current job while she is busy building the department until it can run properly. That would also make for an interesting source of potential relationship drama as working for your significant other is always fun.

----------


## DaFlipp

> Yeah marten could easily get hired by the place himself. We know they hire janitorial staff, so its not all directors and department heads. Heck, he may be the one doing the library style work under claire due to his current job while she is busy building the department until it can run properly. That would also make for an interesting source of potential relationship drama as working for your significant other is always fun.


Forget drama, it would actually be pretty hilarious if, after everything Claire's done, Marten *still* ends up sleepwalking into the librarian job Claire craves. (But this time because Claire winds up with a more important, still-meaningful job due to her education and professional drive that leaves her insufficient time for Regular Library Things.)

----------


## Wraith

> That would also make for an interesting source of potential relationship drama as working for your significant other is always fun.


That would be interesting to see. We've already had one dynamic, that where Marten was managing Claire, and she spent it being a high-strung nerd and implied that Marten only got the job though nepotism until Tai corrected her. I'd quite like to see the reverse with Claire managing Marten, and ultimately coming to her own renewed conclusion that Marten actually *is* the best candidate after a bunch of other Cubetown maniacs wash-out and leave him the last man standing.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## theangelJean

> Forget drama, it would actually be pretty hilarious if, after everything Claire's done, Marten *still* ends up sleepwalking into the librarian job Claire craves. (But this time because Claire winds up with a more important, still-meaningful job due to her education and professional drive that leaves her insufficient time for Regular Library Things.)


I'm going to add the drama element back in - Marten gets the librarian job by default, Claire is too busy managing things, and she _hates_ it and wants Marten's job, but there's nobody to take over for her.

Of course if she then wanted to leave, Marten would be chill and leave with her. I can't see Marten being unhappier with the place than Claire, although he might miss the gang or maybe even Pintsize.

Speaking of Pintsize, is "personal AI" still his job? What would his status be, if that changes?

----------


## Vinyadan

Interesting question. Would Faye still love Bubbles, if she looked like something completely different?

----------


## theangelJean

> Interesting question. Would Faye still love Bubbles, if she looked like something completely different?


 They've already had that conversation. Took me ages to find it, though.

----------


## Cikomyr2

I really liked the pun in the bottom right today

----------


## theangelJean

> I really liked the pun in the bottom right today


*Spoiler: comic 25/10/22*
Show

no honor among teens?

I don't get it?

----------


## Cikomyr2

> *Spoiler: comic 25/10/22*
> Show
> 
> no honor among teens?
> 
> I don't get it?


Its a joke on the old proverb "No honor among thieves"

----------


## Wraith

For someone who breaks into locked buildings by crawling in through an open window and has a best friend who steals Zambonis and starts fires, Sam is such a goody-two-shoes. She's the youngest ~15 year old I've ever seen.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Sam is such a goody-two-shoes.


Think of it this way: Sam has a 50/50 chance of pulling a gun on Marten in any given panel. Either she will or she won't, and we can judge the comic's quality based on that probability.

----------


## Vinyadan

> Think of it this way: Sam has a 50/50 chance of pulling a gun on Marten in any given panel. Either she will or she won't, and we can judge the comic's quality based on that probability.


I thought that was Brun?

----------


## Wraith

> I thought that was Brun?


Brun does not, nor ever has, pulled a gun on anyone. Move along citizen, spreading malicious gun-related lies is Treason unto Friend Computer.

----------


## Rodin

> Think of it this way: Sam has a 50/50 chance of pulling a gun on Marten in any given panel. Either she will or she won't, and we can judge the comic's quality based on that probability.


Remember Chandlers Law: When in count, have a Sam come into the room with a gun in her hand.

----------


## Shadow of the Sun

This? I like this.

I'm always happy to see more Emmett.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Oh boy, more Emmett. What's the "lore" this time, did they feed a bunch of wasabi to a barracuda and burn down an aquarium? Did they fall in a ditch and get reverse tetanus? Did they run over a family in Ireland in 1986?

"One time, me an' my buddy Keith-"

----------


## Wraith

Why would Jim object to Sam befriending someone with a 'chequered past'? He was the one who was moved to tears of paternal pride when he found out that Sam was providing a job to an ex-convict.

I'm not suggesting that he couldn't also have some kind of personal vendetta against an introverted 14 year old, but he otherwise seems like the ONLY person who would be supportive of the little Odd Couple.

----------


## Radar

> Why would Jim object to Sam befriending someone with a 'chequered past'? He was the one who was moved to tears of paternal pride when he found out that Sam was providing a job to an ex-convict.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that he couldn't also have some kind of personal vendetta against an introverted 14 year old, but he otherwise seems like the ONLY person who would be supportive of the little Odd Couple.


Anxious is very much not the same thing as objecting to something. You can support someone in their choices and still be anxious because of all the risks involved.

edit: you can even be anxious about the choices you make yourself.

----------


## Vinyadan

> I'm not suggesting that he couldn't also have some kind of personal vendetta against an introverted 14 year old


That sounds like another famous slice-of-life comic whose title I can't remember and I have never finished reading (I think its author is a serious Transformer fan).

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> That sounds like another famous slice-of-life comic whose title I can't remember and I have never finished reading (I think its author is a serious Transformer fan).


Doonesbury? That one's pretty famous.

----------


## Wraith

> Anxious is very much not the same thing as objecting to something. You can support someone in their choices and still be anxious because of all the risks involved.


Jim is actively concerned about a dumbass teenager who makes silly decisions, but was only mildly irritated that Sam lost a fingernail to an unsecured piece of machinery, and was openly joyful about her hanging out with a convicted felon who attempted to procure a weapon of war? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just an odd way to describe someone whose main characteristic is how tolerant and non-anxious they have previously been portrayed. Or Emmett is genuinely more dangerous than a fighter jet with poor impulse control, which isn't entirely out of the question.  :Small Tongue: 




> That sounds like another famous slice-of-life comic whose title I can't remember and I have never finished reading (I think its author is a serious Transformer fan)


It wasn't intentional, I've no idea what it could be but please share if you figure it out  :Small Smile:

----------


## tyckspoon

> It wasn't intentional, I've no idea what it could be but please share if you figure it out


'Transformers Fan' suggests Dave Willis to me. Could be any of Roomies, It's Walky, Shortpacked!, or Dumbing of Age (all use/reuse the same characters with different basic setting premises and remixing the relationships to explore different romances and interpersonal conflicts.)

----------


## Rodin

> Jim is actively concerned about a dumbass teenager who makes silly decisions, but was only mildly irritated that Sam lost a fingernail to an unsecured piece of machinery, and was openly joyful about her hanging out with a convicted felon who attempted to procure a weapon of war? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just an odd way to describe someone whose main characteristic is how tolerant and non-anxious they have previously been portrayed. Or Emmett is genuinely more dangerous than a fighter jet with poor impulse control, which isn't entirely out of the question. 
> :


I re-read the fingernail bit to be sure, and Jim was anything but calm when he first found out.  Doctor was first on his mind, then rapidly turned to being furious with Faye and Bubbles.  It was Sam that popped his anger bubble by deflecting the entirety of the blame onto herself and accepting the responsibility by offering to give up something that meant a great deal to her.

It was more abbreviated, but it reminded me of Calvin and Hobbes when Calvin broke his dads binoculars.  He was in a furious tirade until he realized how remorseful and miserable Calvin was over the accident - two emotions utterly alien to Calvin normally.  That drained his anger instantly.

So I dont think its terribly out of character for him, especially with Emmetts multiple Noodle Incidents.

----------


## Vinyadan

> 'Transformers Fan' suggests Dave Willis to me. Could be any of Roomies, It's Walky, Shortpacked!, or Dumbing of Age (all use/reuse the same characters with different basic setting premises and remixing the relationships to explore different romances and interpersonal conflicts.)


Yes, probably. The one with the super evil dad villain gang.

----------


## Radar

> Jim is actively concerned about a dumbass teenager who makes silly decisions, but was only mildly irritated that Sam lost a fingernail to an unsecured piece of machinery, and was openly joyful about her hanging out with a convicted felon who attempted to procure a weapon of war? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just an odd way to describe someone whose main characteristic is how tolerant and non-anxious they have previously been portrayed. Or Emmett is genuinely more dangerous than a fighter jet with poor impulse control, which isn't entirely out of the question.


As Rodin wrote, Jim was not exactly chill with the fingernail incident and yes, Emmett does seem to be a walking calamity judging from all the mentioned incidents.

Also, May only wanted to be a fighter jet - never got to be one as her money-making scheme was busted resulting in AI prison time.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

In which Veronica fills in for the author. He really gets a kick out of Emmett.

----------


## Vinyadan

OK, I find this whole milk confusion terrible. Once in a while, I read people talking about almond or soy milk as something interchangeable with actual milk. It was never meant to be. It's like treating coconut milk as milk. Unsurprisingly, Europe has forbidden selling something that isn't animal milk while calling it milk (allowing for exceptions based on language).

----------


## Gez

> OK, I find this whole milk confusion terrible. Once in a while, I read people talking about almond or soy milk as something interchangeable with actual milk. It was never meant to be.


Well for what it's worth, I've used almond milk and chestnut milk instead of regular milk in pancake batter, and couldn't tell the difference.

----------


## Keltest

> Well for what it's worth, I've used almond milk and chestnut milk instead of regular milk in pancake batter, and couldn't tell the difference.


Indeed. Where I live at least, it is both advertised as an alternative and able to be used as such, usually for people with allergies to cow milk.

----------


## halfeye

I am suspicious that Emmet is going to turn out to be male.

----------


## Keltest

> I am suspicious that Emmet is going to turn out to be male.


Emmet is likely nonbinary at this point, but its more than a little annoying that nobody has just come out and said so.

----------


## Wraith

Points to Jeph for accuracy in today's strip - by which I mean, listening to teenagers describe entirely mundane and trivial things as drama is incredibly dull. Source: I have 3 teenage nieces and I worked in a school for 3 years, there is NOTHING too inconsequential to be used as an excuse for... anything.  :Small Tongue: 




> Unsurprisingly, Europe has forbidden selling something that isn't animal milk while calling it milk (allowing for exceptions based on language).


Not _quite_ true. We just have to specify what kind of milk it is - that goes for goat and sheep milk, as well as the vegan alternatives. There's virtually no such thing as "milk" without some kind of adjective or qualifier, but it's all "milk". Or at least, this is so from my experience in Britain.

As for using soy as a meat-milk alternative... you mostly can. I am particularly sensitive to the taste and prefer oat milk, if the real stuff isn't available, but most people don't really care unless it's for some kind of specialist diet or recipe.




> Emmet is likely nonbinary at this point, but its more than a little annoying that nobody has just come out and said so.


I honestly think that Jeph might have forgotten to mention it out loud? Emmett has been referred to by everyone as 'they' since we first met them, but it's honestly tricky to tell if that was intentional or if Sam used the singular 'they' and everyone else followed suite. Emmett certainly hasn't specified, or objected, either way. Considering their shy and/or oblivious nature, they may not even have noticed.

----------


## Radar

> Emmet is likely nonbinary at this point, but its more than a little annoying that nobody has just come out and said so.


Why would there be any need for that?  :Small Confused:  Whether Emmet is a boy, girl or nonbinary has no consequences to the plot whatsoever and even if it was someone's concern in the QC-verse, disclosing such information is only up to Emmet. If they do not want to or just do not care about sharing that detail it's nobody's business.

----------


## Willie the Duck

Honestly, I have no idea what the 'right' way even is for an author to indicate the gender of a character if it isn't plot-relevant. If someone drops a him or her pronoun at some point, we can get a view at least to what those around them think it is. With they, it's not clear if they are nonbinary and prefer they or something else. FWIW, I don't think the way Jeph has handled it is notably good or bad. 




> OK, I find this whole milk confusion terrible. Once in a while, I read people talking about almond or soy milk as something interchangeable with actual milk. It was never meant to be. It's like treating coconut milk as milk. Unsurprisingly, Europe has forbidden selling something that isn't animal milk while calling it milk (allowing for exceptions based on language).


If Europe's situation is anything like the US, the forbiddance or allowance of '_____ milk' for milk-alternatives probably has more to do with the strength of dairy lobbying groups than anything else. Honestly, I never heard anyone have a problem with 'coconut milk' or even 'soy milk' when the former was mostly used in curries and the latter almost exclusively for people with milk allergies or lactose intolerance (and thus realistically weren't going to buy dairy milk anyways). I feel like it was only once the milk-alternate market exploded in variety and customer base that there was this movement to not allow the milk suffix. 

That said, yes, the two aren't always completely interchangeable (for example I think there are pH and available-sugars differences, pertinent for yeast-based baking), and you do need to take that into account.

----------


## Radar

> Honestly, I have no idea what the 'right' way even is for an author to indicate the gender of a character if it isn't plot-relevant. If someone drops a him or her pronoun at some point, we can get a view at least to what those around them think it is. With they, it's not clear if they are nonbinary and prefer they or something else. FWIW, I don't think the way Jeph has handled it is notably good or bad.


Case in point: Vaarsuvius. So many years and no one has the slightest idea what their gender is. This ambiguity was used for quite a few jokes, but did this affect the plot in any particular way? Nope. To be honest, the only plot-relevant gender so far in OotS was Durkon's due to him having a son with Hilgya and only learning about it way later.

So I would say the sane way of looking at it in any fiction would be the following: try assuming different genders of a given character and think if that changes anything. If it does not, there is no reason to care about such details.

edit: awful grammar errors.

----------


## DaFlipp

Yeah, unfortunately online commenting has gotten to the point where people can make an argument that *any* avenue of inclusion is bad. 

Characters openly address new character's pronouns/identity/etc.? "Oh look, the author's trying to include a token (insert identity here), just to win brownie points!"  Characters don't make a big deal about it? "Oh look, the author's trying to have their cake and eat it too, implying without *officially* saying they're (insert identity here)!"

Of course, considering who his main (or, well, formerly-main-before-this-became-a-purely-ensemble-webcomic) character has been dating for the past few years, I'm sure Jeph's well past the point of expecting he can please _everyone_ and is just doing what feels right for his story.

----------


## Traab

The way I look at it, announcing emmets preferred gender would feel cringy and forced unless it came up as plot relevant. Meanwhile sticking to preferred pronouns makes it clear enough as far as it matters to us. Like, iirc, claires status as trans only came up due to clintons over protectiveness and up till then it wasnt a factor so why would it get mentioned? Same here, emmet is they and it doesnt matter if they identify as nonbinary, or any of a dozen other non male or female headings. (I have no idea how many there are) At least not until it does matter, at which point im sure it will come up.

----------


## Wraith

> Honestly, I have no idea what the 'right' way even is for an author to indicate the gender of a character if it isn't plot-relevant.


The consensus I have seen suggests that its  "the opposite of how Tilly was introduced". The main complaints I've seen run along the lines of:

Take a brand new character and force them into a bizarre story without warning or context. Make them as obnoxious and invasive as possible, and then have them harass another popular character before putting them on a bus and firing them into space forever. Then pat yourself on the back for being inclusive because you once had a token character show up that one time.

Looking back, I don't think that a lot of this is fair - except perhaps the 'put on a bus' thing - and that too many readers have confused "an annoying character who is non-binary" for "non-binary characters are annoying". While Tilly was an unfortunate precursor to Willow for inviting themself into other peoples' business, we did have precedent for Hanners' interfering mother and 'unrealistic storylines' is hardly a reasonable criticism against QC. Having non-binary representation was similarly very important, and why not make a character with actual flaws to work on? Most of what Reddit does is complain how homogenous the cast's mentality is, I don't think it's fair to then complain when someone different comes along. 

That Tilly came and went in a couple of weeks, save for one extremely brief cameo, is probably the only justifiable criticism. Being inclusive kind of only works properly if the characters stay in the comic and do something, rather than just pass through, y'know?  :Small Tongue: 

In comparison, Emmet's introduction was fine. They're kind of dull and other characters see unusually fond of them for only poorly explained reasons, but Jeph having a new "favourite" and trying to make sure everyone loves them is hardly a new thing.

----------


## The Glyphstone

I don't think Emmett is the new Designated Favorite so much as Jeph's new Raven/Emily/Etc., the Designated Wacky Comic Relief.

----------


## Rodin

> The way I look at it, announcing emmets preferred gender would feel cringy and forced unless it came up as plot relevant. Meanwhile sticking to preferred pronouns makes it clear enough as far as it matters to us. Like, iirc, claires status as trans only came up due to clintons over protectiveness and up till then it wasnt a factor so why would it get mentioned? Same here, emmet is they and it doesnt matter if they identify as nonbinary, or any of a dozen other non male or female headings. (I have no idea how many there are) At least not until it does matter, at which point im sure it will come up.


Claire's trans status actually came up because she volunteered the information to Marten.  It was an early sign she was interested in him (before there were any other shipping signs, IIRC) and was both a sign of how much she trusted him as well as her gauging his reaction.  We then find out about Clinton's protectiveness when he walks in on the conversation and Claire tells Clinton that Marten knows.

It's a very natural way of doing the reveal which simultaneously provided character development for all three of them.  It's Jeph's writing at its best.

Emmett has similarly felt natural - I didn't even notice the they/them pronouns until someone else mentioned.

----------


## Gez

> Looking back, I don't think that a lot of this is fair - except perhaps the 'put on a bus' thing - and that too many readers have confused "an annoying character who is non-binary" for "non-binary characters are annoying".


These readers should really not look at Dumbing of Age because characters that are deliberately infuriating is one of David Willis' favorite punchlines.

----------


## DaFlipp

See, I see Emmett less as "wacky comic relief" and more as a subversion of the ever-present "shy best friend" trope. Because when we first met them, they seemed to embody that stock character more or less perfectly, and we could predict an obvious sub-plot of them coming out of their comfort zone and seizing life for the first time, etc, especially considering their best friend fit the usual other half of that trope (the impulsive, living-life-to-its-fullest adventurous friend) to a tee.

Except nope, they're not shy because they're sheltered, they're shy because THEIR PAST IS FULL OF DANGER AND RIDICULOUSNESS and they're trying to avoid getting in any *more* trouble than they've already racked up in a surprisingly brief time. And then I think Jeph just realized combining that personality with a surprisingly chaotic past was fun and kept rolling with it, and will likely continue rolling with it until he something else strikes his fancy, as is his wont.

----------


## theangelJean

> The way I look at it, announcing emmets preferred gender would feel cringy and forced unless it came up as plot relevant. Meanwhile sticking to preferred pronouns makes it clear enough as far as it matters to us. Like, iirc, claires status as trans only came up due to clintons over protectiveness and up till then it wasnt a factor so why would it get mentioned? Same here, emmet is they and it doesnt matter if they identify as nonbinary, or any of a dozen other non male or female headings. (I have no idea how many there are) At least not until it does matter, at which point im sure it will come up.


Exactly this. Does Emmett even have to _have_ a preferred gender? Who's asking them about it? They are a teenager, their identity might not even be fully formed - or they might feel a certain way and not be sure of the words to describe it. It's only the rest of society that insists on putting people into a box and making them stay there. In the QC-verse that might not be the case. All that matters for our purposes is that they are interested in Sam romantically.

----------


## Vinyadan

> All that matters for our purposes is that they are interested in Sam romantically.


That depends in how that interest is supposed to be developed, and, in that case, which tastes Sam has.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

"Moose bites kan be pretti nasti"??

And of course, now I must ask: Are there Llamas?

(Monty Python and the Holy Grail has a lot to answer for...)

----------


## Ionathus

> These readers should really not look at Dumbing of Age because characters that are deliberately infuriating is one of David Willis' favorite punchlines.


Carla is a horrible little goblin and also one of my favorite characters in DoA. Just a complete troll and jerk and egotistical mastermind. And I love that. 

There's a great moment when the RA asks Carla to please stop antagonizing the floor's resident transphobe (because the RA can't effectively protect Carla herself due to BlackmailTM), and Carla says "*everyone else on this floor* gets to be a jackass whenever they want. Am I supposed to be a perfect little angel just because I'm trans?"

There's a real pressure in fiction for nonconforming characters to be "better" people. And if they aren't, if they're allowed to be real people, that can often be used against them to represent their whole demographic negatively. It's kind of a minefield, but characters that manage to transcend that (like Carla) are particularly exciting from a storytelling perspective.

----------


## Mechalich

I hope this prompt about Clinton wanting to move is actually picked up and not immediately played off for a laugh. I mean, while the Cubetown part is kind of loopy (because everything about Cubetown is), Clinton planning to move away from Northampton following graduation makes complete sense. I mean, he's presumably getting a degree in some comp-sci adjacent field and while that should offer good job prospects, especially in an AI-saturated future, none of those jobs are likely to be found in a Western Massachusetts college town. 

Of course, the dynamic here, regarding his relationship with Elliot is incredibly simple. Elliot's a baker/bouncer. He can find work _anywhere_ and so far as we know has no strong ties to the city. Actually, now that I think about it, that's a general oddity regarding QC. It's a story that is ultimately about townies in a college town (this point was even made in-comic regarding Marten), but very few of the characters have any deep connection to the town of Northampton at all, and it seems the first major character to move away, Claire, will be one of the very few who does (Angus doesn't count as a major character).

----------


## Wraith

> Of course, the dynamic here, regarding his relationship with Elliot is incredibly simple. Elliot's a baker/bouncer. He can find work _anywhere_ and so far as we know has no strong ties to the city. Actually, now that I think about it, that's a general oddity regarding QC. It's a story that is ultimately about townies in a college town (this point was even made in-comic regarding Marten), but very few of the characters have any deep connection to the town of Northampton at all, and it seems the first major character to move away, Claire, will be one of the very few who does (Angus doesn't count as a major character).


It kind of makes sense because until now, most of the main characters moved TO Northampton from elsewhere, for various reasons. Marten following a girl (who was attending SMIF, I think?), Dora to set up her business in a place with notably cheaper rent than elsewhere, Hannelore because its relatively quiet and none-intrusive for her OCD, and Faye because it was as far removed from Hicksville, Texas and her traumatic past as geographically, culturally, and humanly different as possible.

It's only recently that the new generation of characters, all of which notably younger than Marten, Faye and Dora, have been met on the 'home turf' and their futures involve moving away, just like the A-cast did at their age. It's almost like a prequel, we're seeing the part that happened before QC The Comic started.

It will be interesting to see how the conversation between Elliot and Clinton is handled over the next couple of days, though. Claire interned in an all-female college library and then almost reluctantly became a part-time barista and everyone has spent ~50 comics telling her how great she's be as Director of IS (or whatever it turns out to be, I don't think even Cubetown really knows yet...), but Elliot actually seems shocked that Clinton - the guy with a degree in AI studies - would want to go and live in an AI-run town.

Then again, Elliot is both neurotic and not often portrayed as being very bright, so maybe it also makes perfect sense.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> Dora to set up her business in a place with notably cheaper rent than elsewhere, Hannelore because its relatively quiet and none-intrusive for her OCD, and Faye because it was as far removed from Hicksville, Texas and her traumatic past as geographically, culturally, and humanly different as possible.


The problem is that these three things aren't actually true. Northampton has both higher average rents and is considerably busier than most cities of similar size because its a college town, and if Faye really wanted to get away from her rural origins she'd move to an actual city like Boston or New York.

Also, I think Dora actually is from Northampton, or at least Western Mass generally, since both her bother and parents live nearby.




> It's only recently that the new generation of characters, all of which notably younger than Marten, Faye and Dora, have been met on the 'home turf' and their futures involve moving away, just like the A-cast did at their age. It's almost like a prequel, we're seeing the part that happened before QC The Comic started.


Dora actually did move away, though admittedly to a place well within commuting distance. The comic conspired to keep Marten and Faye in Northampton to preserve the plot. Easy enough in Marten's case, since inertia serves as sufficient reason give his personality, but much more forced in Faye's. Her unwillingness to follow Angus to New York (or at least date 'long distance') never really made sense in character, but facilitated the plot.




> It will be interesting to see how the conversation between Elliot and Clinton is handled over the next couple of days, though. Claire interned in an all-female college library and then almost reluctantly became a part-time barista and everyone has spent ~50 comics telling her how great she's be as Director of IS (or whatever it turns out to be, I don't think even Cubetown really knows yet...), but Elliot actually seems shocked that Clinton - the guy with a degree in AI studies - would want to go and live in an AI-run town.


Actually...I think one of the few significant differences between QC and the real world is that Smif College is gender-integrated while Smith College is not, as Clinton appears to attend it. At least, he references having been in class with Emily, who we know does.

----------


## Traab

I see it as a sort of "Yeah, I mean, its like a computer programmer wanting to work for microsoft circa 1995, its the biggest game in town so everyone wants to aim for there. I dont have any current plans to flee the country for cube town if thats what you are asking, but the idea that claire working there could get me an in is an enticing one." sort of scenario. The diea that half the cast is going to move to cubetown where the comic will take place from now on is an odd one though. :p

----------


## Vinyadan

I would expect the opposite to be true: that they don't hire relatives of the workforce, to avoid nepotism. Although I can see how that would be hard for a large corporation, or whatever it is.

It's interesting that Yay said "and her skills". So the super duper smart omniscent AI thinks that Claire is actually qualified for the (or maybe a?) position in Cubetown.

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## Wraith

> Northampton has both higher average rents and is considerably busier than most cities of similar size because its a college town


Fair enough. I was thinking of Veronica's comment about Northampton rents being 'laughable' compared to California. CheapER but not necessarily CHEAP.  :Small Smile: 




> if Faye really wanted to get away from her rural origins she'd move to an actual city like Boston or New York.


You're absolutely right, but I believe that remains the reason given by Faye?




> Also, I think Dora actually is from Northampton, or at least Western Mass generally, since both her brother and parents live nearby.


For some reason, I thought her parents were Swedish and the family moved to NH when she was a young adult. Either I'm thinking of a different comic, or I'm thinking of a different blond woman with a son named Sven  :Small Tongue: 




> Actually...I think one of the few significant differences between QC and the real world is that Smif College is gender-integrated while Smith College is not, as Clinton appears to attend it. At least, he references having been in class with Emily, who we know does.


Smif was referred to as an all-girl's college when Marten first got a job there. Then again, Clinton is 22 years old so he would likely be in his 4th year of college, when Marten has only been working there for ~2 years in-universe - it might just be a plot hole, or a shared facility, or something. Clinton isn't even the only masc-presenting person in the class.




> I would expect the opposite to be true: that they don't hire relatives of the workforce, to avoid nepotism. Although I can see how that would be hard for a large corporation, or whatever it is.


Different companies have their own specific protocols, but in general it's not forbidden by law or anything. Usually you have to write a formal declaration of the relationship and, if there is potential for conflict of interests, sign a contract that says you won't abuse the position for personal/familial/whatever gain under penalty of mutual dismissal.

This is something that gets tracked by HR at recruitment, and given that Moray is HR for Cubetown, it almost certainly wouldn't be a problem.  :Small Tongue: 




> It's interesting that Yay said "and her skills". So the super duper smart omniscent AI thinks that Claire is actually qualified for the (or maybe a?) position in Cubetown.


"Skills" isn't the same as "Qualifications". Say what you want about having limited job experience, she's good at organising, and getting involved in different projects and steering them towards a suitable conclusion.

The AIs need her to be their Mom and/or baby-sitter, in other words.

----------


## Keltest

> I would expect the opposite to be true: that they don't hire relatives of the workforce, to avoid nepotism. Although I can see how that would be hard for a large corporation, or whatever it is.
> 
> It's interesting that Yay said "and her skills". So the super duper smart omniscent AI thinks that Claire is actually qualified for the (or maybe a?) position in Cubetown.


I know this one! A big company or corporation will generally prohibit family members from working directly with each other, but if Clinton was hired as, say, the gardener, and didnt directly interact with Claire on a professional level, that would probably be allowed.

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## tomandtish

> Elliot's a baker/bouncer. He can find work _anywhere_ and so far as we know has no strong ties to the city.


Maybe? We don't know enough about Cubetown and the community to know what jobs they might have/need. Looking at the picture from comic 4871, the freighter (avg. length 1000 feet assuming large) looks like 4 might fit on a side. So 4000 feet by 4000 feet, or about 6/10th of a square mile. So it isn't huge.

We have no idea at present what the ratio of AI to humans works out to, or how densely populated the place is (or how many levels the community is). But if there's a place Elliot COULDN'T find a job, this place is certainly a possibility simply because it is so small. 




> I know this one! A big company or corporation will generally prohibit family members from working directly with each other, but if Clinton was hired as, say, the gardener, and didnt directly interact with Claire on a professional level, that would probably be allowed.


Yeah, a lot depends on the company and their rules. Also whether it is private, private with government contracts, or public. 

For example, I work for the state of Texas, and my wife worked in the same office i did until she became disabled. When I became a supervisor she couldn't be in my unit. When I became a program director she couldn't be in any of the units below me. And if I had ever gone for commissioner level and gotten it she would have had to leave (they would have worked her in elsewhere in the agency). 

But as someone above mentioned earlier, there are no laws (in the US anyway) that make nepotism illegal.

----------


## theangelJean

> But as someone above mentioned earlier, there are no laws (in the US anyway) that make nepotism illegal.


IANAL, but I am guessing any law making nepotism illegal would prevent family businesses from being a thing, so they are probably rare. Of course small businesses can have different laws to large corporations, so who knows.

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## Mechalich

> Maybe? We don't know enough about Cubetown and the community to know what jobs they might have/need. Looking at the picture from comic 4871, the freighter (avg. length 1000 feet assuming large) looks like 4 might fit on a side. So 4000 feet by 4000 feet, or about 6/10th of a square mile. So it isn't huge.


4000 x 4000 is 16 million square feet. That's not huge if you're measuring landforms, but it's absolutely huge if you're measuring _structures_. 16 million square feet (370 acres) is almost the exact size of the Tesla Fremont Factory site, a facility that employs 22,000 people.

But in any case, Cubetown is part of the Greater Halifax Metro Area. Elliot finding a job there would be trivial.

----------


## tyckspoon

> 4000 x 4000 is 16 million square feet. That's not huge if you're measuring landforms, but it's absolutely huge if you're measuring _structures_. 16 million square feet (370 acres) is almost the exact size of the Tesla Fremont Factory site, a facility that employs 22,000 people.
> 
> But in any case, Cubetown is part of the Greater Halifax Metro Area. Elliot finding a job there would be trivial.


Commuting between Cubetown and the greater metropolitan zone, on the other hand, is most likely not trivial given Cubetown seems to only be accessible by air or by water, and one or the other of Elliot and Clinton would be required to do that. Or they'd both move out to Canada but still maintain separate residences (presumably Clinton boarding on site at Cubetown and Elliot gets an apartment in the main city) which seems like a lot of work to go through to move to another country only to still basically have a long-distance relationship.

----------


## Mechalich

> Commuting between Cubetown and the greater metropolitan zone, on the other hand, is most likely not trivial given Cubetown seems to only be accessible by air or by water, and one or the other of Elliot and Clinton would be required to do that. Or they'd both move out to Canada but still maintain separate residences (presumably Clinton boarding on site at Cubetown and Elliot gets an apartment in the main city) which seems like a lot of work to go through to move to another country only to still basically have a long-distance relationship.


This is one of those things where the precise dynamics matter. Specifically, there is presumably ferry service between Cubetown and Halifax, but the key questions are exactly how long that very ride is, and how often does the ferry run. There is a massive difference between a 15-30 minute ferry ride and a 1-hour plus ferry ride (especially because lengthier ferries add on additional loading time). Generally, any transit time that can be achieved in under one hour is not long distance, simply because two people can live in the same city and be an hour apart quite easily.

The transport dynamics of Cubetown are interesting in and of themselves. Most off-shore worksites active today do not function under the expectation of permanent occupation. Oil rig workers, for example, tend to alternate between on-platform and off-platform in roughly two week intervals. They tend to work something like 12 hour days 7 days a week while on site, so the hours average out. Actual sailors also serve with the general expectation of regular shore leave even if they sleep on the ship every night (the first question a sailor asks when landing in a new US port is 'where is the nearest Wal-Mart?'). So I imagine some of Cubetown's personnel, especially the humans, commute back and forth if not daily, then at least weekly.

----------


## Wraith

Props to Clinton in today's comic, for being a QC character showing some emotional intelligence for once. "It's obviously not fine" is a tiny observation, but finally SOMEONE is listening to someone else talk and comparing it to the expression on their face...

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## Keltest

> Props to Clinton in today's comic, for being a QC character showing some emotional intelligence for once. "It's obviously not fine" is a tiny observation, but finally SOMEONE is listening to someone else talk and comparing it to the expression on their face...


Now if only they had basically anything else in common.

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## Cazero

> Now if only they had basically anything else in common.


They're white men with the hots for each other.

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## Delicious Taffy

> They're white men with the hots for each other.


Truly the basis of all recorded history. Hard to argue with the classics, after all.

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## Daywalker1983

> They're white men with the hots for each other.


Can i ask something without it sounding weird? I will try. Is anyone Else a little weirded out by how easily Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys? I noticed this earlier, when Faye suddenly became a lesbian... Who is into robots. Dora was always that way, so I dont care and I get that Karten loves Claire and thats just it. But Clinton and Elliot is the hardest to accept. It feels like this should never been a thing. 

Cue the ****storm, I guess.

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## Keltest

> Can i ask something without it sounding weird? I will try. Is anyone Else a little weirded out by how easily Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys? I noticed this earlier, when Faye suddenly became a lesbian... Who is into robots. Dora was always that way, so I dont care and I get that Karten loves Claire and thats just it. But Clinton and Elliot is the hardest to accept. It feels like this should never been a thing. 
> 
> Cue the ****storm, I guess.


Faye is bi, I think, not lesbian, and we had a long drawn-out development of the relationship beteen Faye and Bubbles that felt fairly organic, as well as getting some in-story examination. Which makes Clinton and Elliot all the more jarring since it came out of basically nowhere and they really have nothing in common except a friend circle. The perceived weirdness in the sudden change in Clinton's sexuality is probably mostly derived from that.

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## Mechalich

> Is anyone Else a little weirded out by how easily Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys?


I think, for clarity it's better to state that Clinton discovered he was attracted to men _in addition to_ being attracted to women. Essentially he was uncovering bisexual impulses that had been latent for a long time. 

Now, this is one of the problems with the Clinton/Eliot relationship, in that, as cliché as it might be to frame it this way, Clinton actually is _experimenting_ with Eliot. Specifically, he fell into bed with the first available male after uncovering this aspect of his sexuality. We have no idea - and there have been nowhere near enough comics to cover it - whether or not Clinton feels more comfortable dating men than women or what his long-term relationship intentions are. Frankly, I feel the time jump did the relationship a severe disservice because it implies that Clinton and Eliot have remained in some sort of relationship for months when honestly I'd expect it to hit the rocks within weeks. It's a relationship built, at least on Clinton's side, entirely on lust, and while that's certainly potent enough to get two people into bed together (especially two men), it's sustainability is limited. Admittedly a break-up would surely be very messy. Eliot is, regrettably, terribly clingy and absolutely desperate for the affection of others. His approach to his relationship to Clinton is not healthy, which was already obvious but the two most recent comics have made abundantly clear. The relationship either needs some serious reconfiguring, probably with outside help, or a breakup will happen and it will likely be extremely painful because Clinton will be forced to give Eliot the metaphorical boot and that will be awful in all of the normal 'rip the band-aid off' ways.

It is entirely possible that, subsequent to the end of his relationship with Eliot, Clinton would end up dating a girl next. Some bisexual people do things like that, while some profess attraction to both genders and may seek physical intimacy with both but generally only pursue actual relationships with one. It's complex. And...there's always the possibility that Jeph chooses to introduce polyamory to the comic at some point (which actually, would make a lot of sense at least for AIs, since there's absolutely no reason whatsoever for AIs to hold to monogamy).

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## Delicious Taffy

> Cue the ****storm, I guess.


Y'know, adding this on the end just makes it seem like you're preemptively catastrophising any answers you might get. I really don't think you're gonna get any sort of "storm".

More to the point, there's no "from/to" dynamic at play here. None of the named characters have suddenly started a new save file on their orientation, they've just transferred their old data to a new playthrough. Faye likes guys and also at least one lady-shaped person. Clinton is absolutely still into women, and didn't stop just because a hunky lad fluttered his eyelashes. As was said above, it's better to think in terms of "also", not "instead". Hope that makes sense, I haven't been up long.

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## Ionathus

Also I think part of it, and I'm just spitballing here and hopefully this doesn't cross into invasive speculations on Jeph's personal life, but I don't really get the feeling that he's into dudes himself, so it feels like he has to put in extra effort to write a male/male romance storyline...so he loses interest in it more quickly. Which results in this strange dynamic where he wants Elliot and Clinton to be an established thing, but hides all of their relationship development behind timeskips. Kind of wants to have his cake and eat it, too.

Sure there was Marten's dad and his new husband, but that relationship was already developed and it was between two fully-realized adults. Both Clinton and Elliot have only recently discovered this aspect of themselves so there's a lot of introspection required to "sell" it. 

Writing a sexual awakening in any sort of media is already one of the most challenging character decisions: writing two of them simultaneously (presumably about a topic the author hasn't experienced personally) in a webcomic with a wide cast of characters is a tricky business. Spend too much time on their self-discoveries and the audience will be annoyed that we're fixating on them for so long, but don't spend enough time on it and people will complain that it feels contrived or thinly-characterized or forced.

So if he wants Clinton/Elliot to be a thing, he has to make them charming and self-aware enough and give the relationship breathing space to grow and flourish so that we find it believable...while also not spending too much time on it. Because the audience isn't immune to wanting to have its cake and eat it too, either  :Small Big Grin:

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## Vinyadan

I think it's difficult to write this sort of stuff without making the reader go "wait, what?". But it can be done. To make a comparison, El Goonish Shive is insanely slow, but nothing ever feels born out of nowhere (at most, I can think of a case that can feel as teenager trying something out for the hell of it, making the relationship start on superficial, but not unrealistic, grounds).

Personally, I didn't find Faye's entering bisexuality particularly convincing, either, because it was always Bubbles who was shown to be in love with her. There were no signs on Faye's side. Then Faye realised that Bubbles was in love with her, and somehow that made her be in love with her, too.

I remember that girl from Girls With Slingshots who went from sleeping with men to being a self-declared virgin to sleeping with women to realising she didn't like sleeping with women to getting a girlfriend to sleeping with the girlfriend (actually, pushing her to have sex in an airport toilet) to finding out her girlfriend was asexual, thus becoming polyamorous because she needed sex and going back to sleeping with men. Between these beats, she donnet the mantle of the detective of love, dressed like Sherlock Holmes and blew a soap pipe. GWS imho had a problem of going from wildly fantastic and unrealistic (the Clown family) to wanting to drop important beats, but I think it also just didn't devote enough strips to explain what was going on with her, so it felt like everything was a sudden turn. Again, compare EGS.

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## DaFlipp

Regarding them becoming a couple "suddenly", I did some poking around in the wiki/archives because I was curious about just how abrupt it was, and the timeline is basically this: 

Strip 2937 - First "meeting," they don't properly interact, but Elliot does come to Clinton's rescue. 
Strip 3513 through 3520 - Clinton and Elliot meet properly, and Elliot accidentally mangles Clinton's robo-hand, immediately followed by Clinton lying to Elliot's boss to spare him getting in trouble. Clinton also mentions he remembers Elliot coming to his rescue. So, well before romance is even on his mind, Clinton respects Elliot and is willing to stick up for him. (Also note the "accidental" flirting!)
Strip 3536 - The next day, it's confirmed that Elliot is officially crushing on Clinton.
Strip 3710 - Clinton mentions (to Elliot!) that he's open to the idea of liking a guy, even if it hasn't really happened for him yet. 

Now, I'm not dedicated enough to document their every meeting after this point, but it's not until Strip 4329 (like 800ish strips after their accidental-flirt and over 1200ish strips since Elliot bouncer-rescued Clinton on his date with Emily) before Elliot finally explicitly states that he likes Clinton, and then it's _another_  100ish strips before they smooch at strip 4487.

For comparison: Faye met Bubbles on strip 3003 and started dating on strip strip 3744. I know, I know, apples to oranges since Faye is a more central character and had more focus in the strips in question, but still a useful point of comparison.

Now, to be clear, I'm not a ride-or-die Clinton x Elliot fan. I think they're neither as well-rounded nor as interesting as several other members of the QC cast, I tend to like them more as supporting characters, and I would neither be surprised nor disappointed if the strip had their relationship fizzle out. But I think there's something about internet discourse that makes people feel like they have to list definitive, declarative reasons why a given character or relationship doesn't work for them (i.e. "It was too sudden!") when the real problem is just... not feeling the chemistry, and subjectively not liking the relationship (or underlying characters) as a result. 

TL;DR: They knew each other for a while before dating. I don't think they're an objectively bad or especially egregiously-written couple, and I think folks try too hard to justify disliking what basically boils down to a couple that just isn't as fun to watch interact as most of the others.

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## Ionathus

> Personally, I didn't find Faye's entering bisexuality particularly convincing, either, because it was always Bubbles who was shown to be in love with her. There were no signs on Faye's side. Then Faye realised that Bubbles was in love with her, and somehow that made her be in love with her, too.


I disagree that Faye didn't show any signs. Faye was the one who tried so hard to get Bubbles out of her shell at the start, after all. And she has a really sweet scene while talking to her sister in that cafe about how much she cares for Bubbles. And then Faye was the one to truly initiate physical contact - she asked Bubbles to rub her back, which is when she touched Bubbles's thigh and had that sudden "whoa" realization. So I understand if it wasn't convincing for you, but I feel like I have plenty of evidence that Faye cared about Bubbles independently of knowing Bubs's feelings.




> Now, to be clear, I'm not a ride-or-die Clinton x Elliot fan. I think they're neither as well-rounded nor as interesting as several other members of the QC cast, I tend to like them more as supporting characters, and I would neither be surprised nor disappointed if the strip had their relationship fizzle out. But I think there's something about internet discourse that makes people feel like they have to list definitive, declarative reasons why a given character or relationship doesn't work for them (i.e. "It was too sudden!") when the real problem is just... not feeling the chemistry, and subjectively not liking the relationship (or underlying characters) as a result.


I think you're right that people shouldn't be required to "cite their sources" for not liking a relationship. But I like writing myself, so I like trying to pick apart what "bad" characterization looks like. And I think it absolutely _can_ exist, and that Clinton & Elliot is an example of it. They had far more chemistry as pseudo-rivals and potential crushes than they do as an actual couple, and for me that comes down to their pre-dating scenes actually being interesting. The strip where Elliot crushes Clinton's hand is great, for example. Brun's trying to make them be friends, they're both trying to macho posture a little bit, and things go interestingly sideways. 

But as a couple, it's like all of their edges have been sanded down and they're just not _interesting_ anymore. I know that sometimes happens in sitcom/slice of life style media with the established couples, so it's not terribly surprising. But Elliot and Clinton were both very distinct beforehand, and it's sad to see them go the way of Steve/Cosette and Wil/Penny  :Small Frown:

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## Vinyadan

> I disagree that Faye didn't show any signs. Faye was the one who tried so hard to get Bubbles out of her shell at the start, after all. And she has a really sweet scene while talking to her sister in that cafe about how much she cares for Bubbles. And then Faye was the one to truly initiate physical contact - she asked Bubbles to rub her back, which is when she touched Bubbles's thigh and had that sudden "whoa" realization. So I understand if it wasn't convincing for you, but I feel like I have plenty of evidence that Faye cared about Bubbles independently of knowing Bubs's feelings.


Caring for or liking someone is very different from loving or being romantically or sexually attracted to, and none of the things you mentioned before the thigh touch goes beyond friendship (actually, it's a lot more tame than the level of physical contact and opennes I have seen in actual friendships). To me, the cafe scene looked like the author signaling "oh look I'm gonna put these two together", an already clear intention for a long time, instead of actually depicting a budding relationship.
IIRC, the thigh touch is where everything exploded, and Faye immediately went 0 to 100. Which is very Faye, in that she did the same with Sven, but didn't convince me in the slightest back then.

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## Ionathus

> Caring for or liking someone is very different from loving or being romantically or sexually attracted to, and none of the things you mentioned before the thigh touch goes beyond friendship (actually, it's a lot more tame than the level of physical contact and opennes I have seen in actual friendships). To me, the cafe scene looked like the author signaling "oh look I'm gonna put these two together", an already clear intention for a long time, instead of actually depicting a budding relationship.
> IIRC, the thigh touch is where everything exploded, and Faye immediately went 0 to 100. Which is very Faye, in that she did the same with Sven, but didn't convince me in the slightest back then.


For what it's worth, she does blush in the cafe scene, which signals to me that it's more than platonic already.

It still worked for me the way it played out. Romcoms take it to extremes, but "hey, I actually have deeper feelings for this friend and now I'm reassessing all my prior behavior in that context" _does_ still happen in the real world. _Especially_ regarding any self-discovery that the person isn't only heterosexual: I have watched IRL friends make huge leaps in sexuality in a relatively short timeframe, because something suddenly "clicked" and they realized they'd been subconsciously denying this part of them for a while. It seemed sudden to me from the outside, but hearing all the things that re-contextualized for them and the puzzle pieces that suddenly fit into place made it clear that it was a long time coming. Why am I saying all this in defense of Faye while also criticizing the suddenness of Clinton/Elliot? Beats me. Main characters get special treatment? Clinton & Elliot are boring? Unconfronted prejudice against bakers? You decide.

Not gonna debate your feelings with you though: if it didn't work for you, then it didn't work!

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## Wraith

> Now, I'm not dedicated enough to document their every meeting after this point, but it's not until Strip 4329 (like 800ish strips after their accidental-flirt and over 1200ish strips since Elliot bouncer-rescued Clinton on his date with Emily) before Elliot finally explicitly states that he likes Clinton, and then it's _another_  100ish strips before they smooch at strip 4487.
> 
> For comparison: Faye met Bubbles on strip 3003 and started dating on strip strip 3744. I know, I know, apples to oranges since Faye is a more central character and had more focus in the strips in question, but still a useful point of comparison.


It's hard to say "QC's relationship arcs don't have enough time spent on them" because, frankly, it's a problem that's been getting worse with all arcs.

Remember when Faye and Marten sat down, addressed their sexual tension, and Faye revealed her traumatic past? Would it surprise you to know that this conversation began, and then resolved when they woke up the next morning and Faye had already gone to work, in just 9 strips?

And then the arc where Marten finally got angry at Dora and they broke up? From Dora asking the question about Marten's taste in porn, to Marten getting home again and miserably going to bed? 6 strips. 1795 to 1800 exactly.

Now compare to this Cubetown thing with Claire; she told Clinton that she had an interview and asked him about moving to Cubetown in 4847, and they're STILL wandering around asking people "what do you think of moving to Cubetown?" in 4907. 60 strips of the same conversation, broken only by the interview itself where Claire was asking someone from Cubetown about Cubetown.

How much time has been spent on a given subject is not an indicator of it being examined thoroughly or comprehensively, is my point.  :Small Tongue:  Quality wins over quantity, and of the criticisms I have of the Clinton x Elliot arc, there being not enough examples of the pair growing closer certainly isn't one of them.

One thing I do particularly dislike about it, though, is how Jeph has once again reverted to the old punchline of "this character has a mental illness, aren't they quirky!".  I know it hasn't yet been resolved and so tomorrow we might get a serious heart-to-heart where the two address a problem, making this a serious arc, but ending on a flurry of silly puns, lolrandom metaphors, Yay's obnoxious interjection and (frankly) Jeph's history in prior arcs, I don't have high hopes. It's not endearing, its just uncomfortable and IRL would be very toxic behaviour from Elliot.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

My biggest issue with Clinton/Elliot's relationship is that I don't particularly like or care about either of them.

I also don't see them being able to maintain a longterm relationship due to personality conflicts. However, I didn't find the way they got together to be at all unbelievable.

----------


## georgie_leech

In unrelated news I find the news post amusing for non-comic reasons  :Small Amused:

----------


## The Glyphstone

I do too, but discussing it without venturing into Inappropriate Topics is likely to be a minefield.

----------


## Wraith

> My biggest issue with Clinton/Elliot's relationship is that I don't particularly like or care about either of them.


I liked Clinton when he went through an arc of being an annoying nerd, getting shot down by Emily, growing up a bit and becoming a slightly-dorky but otherwise normal guy who happened to be really interested in AI. 'Almost Cool And Weirdly Hot Clinton' had a lot of promise, such as the teased flirtation with Roko or just being the non-neurotic Straight Man of the comic in Marten's absence.

That all of that evaporated and he turned back into an irritating twerp who gets bullied by everyone at every opportunity, was a big, big disappointment.

----------


## Thufir

> Can i ask something without it sounding weird? I will try. Is anyone Else a little weirded out by how easily Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys? I noticed this earlier, when Faye suddenly became a lesbian... Who is into robots. Dora was always that way, so I don't care and I get that Marten loves Claire and thats just it. But Clinton and Elliot is the hardest to accept. It feels like this should never been a thing. 
> 
> Cue the ****storm, I guess.


No. Any weirdness you brought to this yourself, imo. Sometimes people realise these things about themselves, sometimes it can feel sudden, especially from outside of that person's head. That's just a thing which happens. Marten and Claire's relationship didn't entail any change to their (perceived) sexualities so I don't see why you brought it up.
Not gonna say as a definite that you're being homophobic, but I have to say being weirded out by a guy realising he's bi, finding it hard to accept that two men are attracted to each other, and "It feels like this should never been a thing" sounds kinda homophobic.
Idk if you consider this a ****storm, just calling it how I see it.




> I don't think they're an objectively bad or especially egregiously-written couple, and I think folks try too hard to justify disliking what basically boils down to a couple that just isn't as fun to watch interact as most of the others.


Tbh I feel like this is an issue which comes up a lot generally where people not liking something feel the need to analyse why they don't like it, which can shade into them trying to prove the thing they don't like is *objectively bad* (or at least it can feel that way), which doesn't sit well with people who do like the thing.

----------


## Ionathus

> I liked Clinton when he went through an arc of being an annoying nerd, getting shot down by Emily, growing up a bit and becoming a slightly-dorky but otherwise normal guy who happened to be really interested in AI. 'Almost Cool And Weirdly Hot Clinton' had a lot of promise, such as the teased flirtation with Roko or just being the non-neurotic Straight Man of the comic in Marten's absence.
> 
> That all of that evaporated and he turned back into an irritating twerp who gets bullied by everyone at every opportunity, was a big, big disappointment.


Agreed. I was deeply interested in "Almost Cool and Weirdly Hot Clinton." Then he just kinda fizzled out.




> Idk if you consider this a ****storm, just calling it how I see it.


Thank you, yes. I can't stand "brace for the downvotes" type comments - just say what you're thinking and let your piece stand on its own.




> Tbh I feel like this is an issue which comes up a lot generally where people not liking something feel the need to analyse why they don't like it, which can shade into them trying to prove the thing they don't like is *objectively bad* (or at least it can feel that way), which doesn't sit well with people who do like the thing.


I always try to present my opinions as my own opinions, and the reason that I personally didn't jive with a certain story beat. It can help me suss out whether others had the same opinion, and also helps me pick apart why I react to things the way I do. Hopefully it doesn't turn the discussion into a court case with "evidence" and whatnot.

----------


## Kish

> No. Any weirdness you brought to this yourself, imo. Sometimes people realise these things about themselves, sometimes it can feel sudden, especially from outside of that person's head. That's just a thing which happens. Marten and Claire's relationship didn't entail any change to their (perceived) sexualities so I don't see why you brought it up.
> Not gonna say as a definite that you're being homophobic, but I have to say being weirded out by a guy realising he's bi, finding it hard to accept that two men are attracted to each other, and "It feels like this should never been a thing" sounds kinda homophobic.
> Idk if you consider this a ****storm, just calling it how I see it.


I'm thrown by the negation of bisexuality in their descriptions of both Clinton and Faye, myself. And the implication that Marten must be something other than straight to be with a trans woman (Jeph's presenting their first sex scene in a way that feels very like a "teehee you want to know what genitals she has but you don't get to" and kind of offputting itself aside). And...I've never heard "that way" used to mean "LGBT" from someone who wasn't twisting their lips like they'd just bitten into a lemon at the same time.

So...downvotes requested, downvote cast, I guess.

----------


## Mechalich

Bisexuality can be difficult to portray in the context of characters who are engaged in monogamous relationships, especially in the absence of first-person or omniscient viewpoints. For example, I don't believe Faye has expressed attraction to any male character since entering into a relationship with Bubbles, but she also hasn't expressed attraction to any other female character because that's generally one of the things people in monogamous relationships try to avoid. Whether or not Faye still experiences attraction to men as well as women is something that we, the audience, cannot know unless Faye chooses to express her opinions to a neutral audience (ex. when Dora talks to her cat). 

This is very much the case for Clinton, because if he dared to express the least bit of physical attraction for anyone other than Elliot with Elliot in earshot, even if it was extremely clear he wasn't interested in pursuing any sort of relationship with that person, Elliot would go to pieces because Elliot is not approaching this relationship in a healthy way. Actually, I'd like to see that happen, both because it would effectively represent bisexuality and it would spark the necessary destruction of this relationship.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

I honestly don't think it possible for anyone with Elliot's complete lack of self-confidence to maintain any kind of romantic relationship for long. It would take a massive overture of dedication on Clinton's part to overcome, and (to be perfectly clear) I don't think that's a good idea for either of them.

Either that, or Elliot's having a weird panic attack and we just need to wait for him to calm down and think rationally again. Which come to think of it, is something I've had to deal with via real life family members, so maybe he really can recover after all. Feels weird coming from a comic character if so, but I guess it's realistic?

----------


## Wraith

It feels like yet another example where the time-skip between the vtuber arc and Claire's job offer has only caused problems for the comic.

Elliot has always been anxious and shy about approaching relationships - IIRC he'd been pining for Padme for months until Marten, of all people, finally got him to express himself, and then again with Brun before he found Clinton - which gradually became interpreted as some kind of undiagnosed anxiety disorder. Clinton even asked him at one point, I think during the black-out arc? Something along the lines of, "Have you asked your doctor about your apparently obvious anxiety disorder" and Elliot responded with something like "I probably should, that would explain a lot of my behaviour".

Then 'months' go by wherein it hasn't been addressed. This implies either months where this hasn't reoccurred and its suddenly happening out of nowhere for little provocation, which from a narrative perspective feels a little un-earned, or it implies months of this happening consistently, Clinton tolerating/enabling it, and a generally unpleasant and toxic relationship throughout.

I don't like the first option because its not a satisfying story. I don't like the second option because it makes both characters look like horrible people and I don't particularly want to read a comic about horrible people. At least, not one wherein the characters are supposed to be seen as nice, and aren't Villain Protagonists like 8-Bit Theatre or something. Black Mage would be a very, very weird experience if everyone was saying what a nice guy he was...  :Small Tongue: 

Obviously, anxiety can and does suddenly flare up like this for no reason sometimes, I'm not criticising that, it could be an interesting and inclusive plot point, but as often mentioned before a webcomic is a visual medium and we need to be shown it happening for it to resonate - not just "It was mentioned one time several months ago, nothing happened in between but trust me its really really serious right now".

----------


## Ionathus

> (Jeph's presenting their first sex scene in a way that feels very like a "teehee you want to know what genitals she has but you don't get to" and kind of offputting itself aside)


I agree with the rest of your post but had the opposite reaction here: I thought it was a pretty elegant way to show Claire's fear about how Marten would react, and also show Marten's acceptance, while still clearly sending the message to the audience that Claire's genitals *don't matter* to her status as a person or her worthiness of being loved, and people aren't automatically entitled to have their curiosity satisfied about trans people's bodies. 

I don't have sources to cite, but my memory says it was fairly well-received by trans readers as well for those reasons. I'm cis so can't speak to that part of it myself, though. Jeph's style _can_ be quite "teehee" at times so I do get why you found it offputting.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> No. Any weirdness you brought to this yourself, imo. Sometimes people realise these things about themselves, sometimes it can feel sudden, especially from outside of that person's head. That's just a thing which happens. Marten and Claire's relationship didn't entail any change to their (perceived) sexualities so I don't see why you brought it up.
> Not gonna say as a definite that you're being homophobic, but I have to say being weirded out by a guy realising he's bi, finding it hard to accept that two men are attracted to each other, and "It feels like this should never been a thing" sounds kinda homophobic.
> Idk if you consider this a ****storm, just calling it how I see it.


Well, thank you for not outright saying it, because its judgemental and Also wrong. I like Dora and Thai, i like Marten and Claire and I dont mind Faye and Bubbles.

But I find that sexual orientation is in reality, in my experience, not as Fluid as the comic makes it out to be in Clinton. Clinton always read to me as a straight cis, He made an absolute ass of himself for Emily. And Brun. Him just switching sides without even thinking about it weirds me out. I dont think you get to imply Homophobie for that.

That aside, I apologize for the **** storm Part.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> I'm thrown by the negation of bisexuality in their descriptions of both Clinton and Faye, myself. And the implication that Marten must be something other than straight to be with a trans woman (Jeph's presenting their first sex scene in a way that feels very like a "teehee you want to know what genitals she has but you don't get to" and kind of offputting itself aside). And...I've never heard "that way" used to mean "LGBT" from someone who wasn't twisting their lips like they'd just bitten into a lemon at the same time.
> 
> So...downvotes requested, downvote cast, I guess.


I dont negate their bisexuality, I did not imply anything about Karten. And I dont care what you have Heard from other people, I refuse your implication about my thoughts on LGBT, however softly you put it. The truth is, I simply dont care about that at all, but whithin the comic the fluidity of sexual orientations weirds me out, yes.

So I exposed myself and asked a question, for which I am judged rather harshly up until inferring I negate Bisexuality, am a Homophobie and resent LGBT.

I dont.

----------


## Thufir

> Well, thank you for not outright saying it, because its judgemental and Also wrong. I like Dora and Thai, i like Marten and Claire and I dont mind Faye and Bubbles.
> 
> But I find that sexual orientation is in reality, in my experience, not as Fluid as the comic makes it out to be in Clinton. Clinton always read to me as a straight cis, He made an absolute ass of himself for Emily. And Brun. Him just switching sides without even thinking about it weirds me out. I dont think you get to imply Homophobia for that.
> 
> That aside, I apologize for the **** storm Part.


Your experience is not universal. Maybe people you know are very fixed in their sexualities, or maybe you just don't notice them questioning, but either way they are not all people and for a lot of people sexuality can be very complicated and yes, fluid.
Also, Clinton did not "switch sides without even thinking about it." He thought about it *a lot*. And the reason I bring up potential homophobia is because you didn't initially say that the shift felt too sudden, or was poorly written, or unrealistic (all things which I would disagree with, but that's beside the point), you said it *weirded you out*. The idea that someone you thought was straight could actually be bi weirded you out. Homophobia can consist of subconscious biases as well as conscious ones, and that's what this sounds like. And a subconscious bias isn't necessarily something to judge someone for, but it is worth examining.
It's also possible I'm reading too much into the phrasing and emphasis, but that's how it seems to me.




> I don't negate their bisexuality,


You did, when you said:




> Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys? I noticed this earlier, when Faye suddenly became a lesbian...


Clinton didn't go from one to the other, he went from one to both. Faye did not become a lesbian, she realised she was bisexual. You viewing and describing both instances as a binary switch denies their bisexuality.




> I did not imply anything about Marten.


Yet you keep bringing him up even though he has no relevance to the point you're making since he has always been portrayed as straight.




> And I don't care what you have heard from other people, I refuse your implication about my thoughts on LGBT, however softly you put it. The truth is, I simply don't care about that at all, but within the comic the fluidity of sexual orientations weirds me out, yes.
> 
> So I exposed myself and asked a question, for which I am judged rather harshly up until inferring I negate bisexuality, am a homophobe and resent LGBT.
> 
> I don't.


I haven't heard anything about your views on LGBTQ+ people from anyone other than you, and I'm very much trying *not* to judge you too harshly. But the negating of bisexuality, while I wouldn't personally have termed it that way, is simply a factual description of something you did in your initial post; and frankly I don't think being weirded out by (fictional) sexual fluidity, nor making a forum post to talk about it, are the reactions of someone who "simply doesn't care about that at all."

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Well, thank you for not outright saying it, because its judgemental and Also wrong. I like Dora and Thai, i like Marten and Claire and I dont mind Faye and Bubbles.
> 
> But I find that sexual orientation is in reality, in my experience, not as Fluid as the comic makes it out to be in Clinton. Clinton always read to me as a straight cis, He made an absolute ass of himself for Emily. And Brun. Him just switching sides without even thinking about it weirds me out. I dont think you get to imply Homophobie for that.
> 
> That aside, I apologize for the **** storm Part.
> 
> I dont negate their bisexuality, I did not imply anything about Karten. And I dont care what you have Heard from other people, I refuse your implication about my thoughts on LGBT, however softly you put it. The truth is, I simply dont care about that at all, but whithin the comic the fluidity of sexual orientations weirds me out, yes.
> 
> So I exposed myself and asked a question, for which I am judged rather harshly up until inferring I negate Bisexuality, am a Homophobie and resent LGBT.
> ...


Just initially, let me say--we don't know you except for the words you put into your posts. That's 'you' for us. If you (the person at the keyboard) don't have a problem with any of these things, only you could know that. The person we are seeing is using (by all accounts unintentional to the point of not noticing) a bunch of subtle language ("Clinton went from being attracted to girls to boys," "just switching sides," "Dora was always that way," "But I find that sexual orientation is in reality, in my experience, not as Fluid as the comic makes it out to be in Clinton"*) along with some statements (Clinton made a fool over Emily, which somehow comes down one way or another on his bisexuality) that 1) absolutely seems like negating bisexuality, and 2) suggests that you are uncomfortable with characters realizing a same-sex attraction in the comic (or perhaps feel they somehow negate well-liked previous opposite-sex-attraction story arcs, or something). If that's not the real you, great, but yeah that is the person you depicted.
*what's so wildly fluid about Clinton's experience? He was a bisexual individual who didn't realize half off that sexuality?

Also, you don't have to apologize for the **** storm thing, but people are going to judge you based on it anyways (preemptively framing peoples' response to your comments as them being out of control is unimpressive, the end). 

All of this is unnecessary, since the underlying point you are bringing up (minus the 'is anyone else weirded out by...' part) is valid. Jeph didn't lay out any subtle clues ahead of time for these developments (previous to them meeting the people they would end up exploring this attraction with, Clinton's 'who knows' comment* preceded his realization by quite a bit, stip-number-wise). I'd even hazard a guess that the Jeph didn't have this planned for either of them in the plot arcs previous to these stories (the other option is conservation of plot detail, and him just not being comfortable trying to leave subtle clues with comments that didn't progress the current plot). That said, within the continuity of the strip, they aren't someone who "switched sides" or anything, they just realized an additional facet to their sexuality that they had kept hidden (from themselves, and, given their externally visible behavior, from us). 
*which also seemed a little stilted and clumsy in the dialog part, not that that's the biggest issue.

As for realism, I don't know. I have no personal experience, and I've never felt comfortable asking any of my GLBT friends who how the realization process takes place. Honestly, the idea that someone could make it to midway-through-college level of adulthood and not realize that they were attracted to one or another gender is alien to me, but it has happened to any number of individuals. 

Long story short, if you'd just said, 'do others agree that Jeph didn't foreshadow these same-sex attractions before the plotlines where the characters themselves realized their sexuality, and maybe hadn't had them planned until that point?' there wouldn't have been a negative reaction (in fact, I think that was the overall thread reaction at the time).

----------


## Kish

> I dont negate their bisexuality, I did not imply anything about Karten.


You keep saying "switching sides" and talking about how the characters you're referring to suddenly stopped being attracted to one sex when that's never suggested by the comic. And who is Karten? (You brought I-presume-it's-meant-to-be-Marten up here, so presumably he has something to do with what you're saying.)

----------


## Mechalich

> Honestly, the idea that someone could make it to midway-through-college level of adulthood and not realize that they were attracted to one or another gender is alien to me, but it has happened to any number of individuals.


Cultural pressure can accomplish a lot. For people raised to believe that 'being gay is bad' denial of same-sex attraction is common. For bisexual people, especially if the attraction is unequal (ie. more attracted to women in the aggregate than men) it's relatively easy to bury that part of the self. In fact, this is even in some sense a necessary skill, since the demands of monogamy make it impossible to be in a relationship with both genders at the same time. 

The 'comic-time' issue is relevant here. Jeph was born in 1980. Questionable Content launched in 2003 with a core cast of 20-somethings. Evidence therefore suggests that Marten, Faye, Dora and the other core cast members are all children of the early 1980s. Homophobia was significantly more prevalent in the 1980s and 1990s than it is today (the shift in public opinion on gay rights and related issues is one of the fastest on record). Consequently there's a huge amount variance in the cultural context a character like Clinton would have received growing up depending on whether he was born in 1985 or 1995. His innate instinct to suppress same-sex attraction makes massively more sense if he was born at the earlier date.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

On a 3% more directly comic-related note, why would Elliot need to move in with Renee? He lives at his own place, and last I _remember_, Clinton lives....somewhere else? Where the hell does Clinton live? Is it with Elliot now? I know his hot mom lives alone(ish, hi Cosmo), but the last thing I remember involving Clinton's living situation involved a roommate with like... I wanna say an MMO addiction? There's like a billion comics and I could trawl the 500 that are probably relevant to this, but I'm curious if anyone remembers off-hand, before I go doing that.

----------


## Wraith

Clinton, by his own admission from years ago when we first met him and in the arc where he'd had a few drinks and crashed at his Mom's house, is an undergraduate who lives in the dorms of the University.

Which raises a few questions, since when Marten started working there ~2 years ago it was an all female college and Clinton is now in his 3rd or 4th year, but whatever; that's the answer given.

The implication being that Elliot is abandonning his apartment to someone who doesn't even live there, even cohabiting, I guess? lOlRaNdOM so qUiRkY

----------


## Mechalich

> Clinton, by his own admission from years ago when we first met him and in the arc where he'd had a few drinks and crashed at his Mom's house, is an undergraduate who lives in the dorms of the University.
> 
> Which raises a few questions, since when Marten started working there ~2 years ago it was an all female college and Clinton is now in his 3rd or 4th year, but whatever; that's the answer given.


There are a number of colleges in the vicinity of Northampton, including Amherst and Umass - Amherst, which are not women's schools. Clinton could attend one of those. Actually, that would make sense, as in the arc where he met Brun he was waiting for a bus to go home, but if he attended Smith he could have easily walked. This implies that Emily took a class at a different school, but arrangements between small colleges to allow that sort of thing are fairly common.

----------


## Wraith

A quick wiki-dive, now that I'm not posting from my 'phone, says that Clinton is indeed attending UMass, not SMIF.

That makes more sense, or possibly suggests that Emily just had an external internship at SMIF while also attending UMass? Not hugely efficient, but given that she was a Computer Science major interning in a library anyway, efficiency probably wasn't the goal in the first place.  :Small Tongue: 

Good to know!

----------


## DaFlipp

So I could very well be wrong, but today's strip actually sticks out as a bit of a bad omen for Clinton & Elliot's long-term longevity as a couple. Not necessarily because of its contents on their own, but rather how they fit into Jeph's writing style. 

Now, I don't have specific examples lined up so my memory could be wrong, but it's pretty common for QC couples to get into a fight/misunderstanding, then immediately split and go talk to different people about what just happened for some perspective. I feel like these split-up-and-talk sessions tend to fall into two very broad categories:

1.) The One-Off. The source of the argument/misunderstanding is fairly isolated or situation-dependent. In these cases, talking with friends usually allows each member of the couple to get some much-needed perspective (along with some humorous asides and some intentionally terrible advice from characters like Pintsize or May that, thankfully, no one listens to), and by the time the couple reunites, both are tripping over each other in their attempts to set things right, and ultimately are glad to see they're both still on the same page. 

2.) The Deeper Problem. In these cases, the problem isn't isolated - it's tied to a major character flaw or interpersonal conflict that needs to be addressed, if it even can be. In these cases, the advice they get from friends tends to be a bit less helpful (again still usually framed comically, at least at first), the resolution isn't nearly as clear-cut, and the whole ordeal is much more likely to be a stepping stone toward an eventual break-up. See the conversations about Dora's jealousy with Marten, or Faye's insecurities during her relationships with Sven and Angus, or for a non-romantic example see Faye's problems with drinking (which leads to a platonic "break-up" with Dora, i.e. her firing). 

Note that #2 doesn't always lead to a break-up - Marten's long-standing passivity has been a split-up-and-talk topic during his relationship with Claire, for example, but doesn't seem to have pushed them further apart. But *if* Jeph was setting up the end of Clinton and Elliot's relationship, today's strip is the kind of thing he's historically done to start laying that groundwork, especially if the underlying issue isn't ultimately addressed. 

All that said, the _real_ red flag is going to be if there is a second or third split-up-and-talk on roughly the same topic any time in the near future, and/or if the fallout from this one is anything but positive, i.e. if Clinton gets pushy about therapy or Elliot is especially resistant to discussing the topic.

----------


## Rodin

> Cultural pressure can accomplish a lot. For people raised to believe that 'being gay is bad' denial of same-sex attraction is common. For bisexual people, especially if the attraction is unequal (ie. more attracted to women in the aggregate than men) it's relatively easy to bury that part of the self. In fact, this is even in some sense a necessary skill, since the demands of monogamy make it impossible to be in a relationship with both genders at the same time. 
> 
> The 'comic-time' issue is relevant here. Jeph was born in 1980. Questionable Content launched in 2003 with a core cast of 20-somethings. Evidence therefore suggests that Marten, Faye, Dora and the other core cast members are all children of the early 1980s. Homophobia was significantly more prevalent in the 1980s and 1990s than it is today (the shift in public opinion on gay rights and related issues is one of the fastest on record). Consequently there's a huge amount variance in the cultural context a character like Clinton would have received growing up depending on whether he was born in 1985 or 1995. His innate instinct to suppress same-sex attraction makes massively more sense if he was born at the earlier date.


There's also a lack of knowledge that can happen, especially with more complicated LGBT+ issues that are only recently getting exposure.  For example, I only recently learned that there's a high probability I am demi-romantic.  I'm 40 years old.  I have no proof (I would put myself in the "Q for Questioning" of LGBTQ) but it would explain a heck of a lot.  I never even considered the possibility previously because I never even heard the term until a couple months ago.  For that matter, I never knew until relatively recently that bisexuality is more of a sliding scale instead of just a thing you are.

----------


## Wraith

Wow. It's been a while since I've seen a webcomic made _entirely_ out of red flags.

Elliot's manipulative actions, Clinton's exasperated "I need a minute to myself and then I have to fix this again", Yay's insistence on getting involved in someone else's relationship drama... To say I'm "interested" in how this resolves isn't quite the right word, but there is a certain sense of morbid curiosity going on, like slowing down to watch a particularly messy car crash.

...Oh good, tomorrow we probably get to see bratty-pseudo-teenage-Yay meet bratty-snarker-Renee for the first(?) time. That'll be... something.

----------


## Traab

So yeah, im not even involved in this relationship and im annoyed by this. I mean, if some random person came up to me trying to "solve my problems" like this, it would just tick me off. The closest thing to a saving grace is elliot actually knows yay. For a second i forgot that and thought this was, to him, a stranger off the street who clinton told his relationship stuff to, coming in and offering unsolicited advice, and basically dismissing all my his fears as invalid and silly and telling him to go seek help. thats REALLY helpful there yay. Great job. But even being an acquaintance doesnt help that much.

----------


## Vinyadan

That's the point: Yay has no idea how it works.

----------


## Wraith

It's some kind of self-parody? Yay talking to Renee and Elliot, is how Willow sounds talking to anyone else, but this time its arbitrarily been decided not to work? I don't really know how to reconcile both existing in the same comic... 

Unless, of course, it does work - which at this point (as we haven't yet seen Elliot's reaction) is still plausible.

----------


## Keltest

> It's some kind of self-parody? Yay talking to Renee and Elliot, is how Willow sounds talking to anyone else, but this time its arbitrarily been decided not to work? I don't really know how to reconcile both existing in the same comic... 
> 
> Unless, of course, it does work - which at this point (as we haven't yet seen Elliot's reaction) is still plausible.


Elliot is a pushover. Somebody sitting him down where he cant escape and yelling at him to go to therapy would absolutely work. It would also be extremely toxic behavior on the part of whoever is cornering him like that. If it does work, I rather suspect the latter half of that will be glossed over or ignored.

----------


## DaFlipp

> It's some kind of self-parody? Yay talking to Renee and Elliot, is how Willow sounds talking to anyone else, but this time its arbitrarily been decided not to work? I don't really know how to reconcile both existing in the same comic... 
> 
> Unless, of course, it does work - which at this point (as we haven't yet seen Elliot's reaction) is still plausible.


Admittedly it's been awhile since I read those strips with Willow but I don't recall her pre-emptively declaring "Rejoice and give thanks" regarding her own impending advice/meddling. 

I know folks didn't like her overly-quirky-bystander-turned-matchmaker routine, but I recall her advice having an overall vibe of "Well I acknowledge that I don't know all the details but I think love is worth pursuing", as opposed to Yay's "Shut up nerds and do what I say, you're welcome in advance" approach. I think there's a pretty clear difference between the two!

Hard to say how Elliot's going to react - depending on whether Jeph's thought through the implications of how messed up it is for a third party to bully 1/2 of a relationship into therapy, I could see him either rightfully taking offense or meekly saying "Y'know what, you're right". I _do_, however, think Yay's about to face the Wrath of Renee for their callous approach, which should be interesting to see!

----------


## Gez

The thing that annoys me is that a few strips ago, Yay was all "oh noes, more and more people are getting aware of my existence", and now she's "I'm gonna go to that guy's workplace and meddle with him in front of all his coworkers and customers".

----------


## Radar

> The thing that annoys me is that a few strips ago, Yay was all "oh noes, more and more people are getting aware of my existence", and now she's "I'm gonna go to that guy's workplace and meddle with him in front of all his coworkers and customers".


The secret Yay tries (or tried) to keep is that she is not a standard AI - not her existence in general.

----------


## theNater

> The secret Yay tries (or tried) to keep is that she is not a standard AI - not her existence in general.


I've been ninja'd, but I can still contribute the comic where this is made explicit.

----------


## Wraith

> I know folks didn't like her overly-quirky-bystander-turned-matchmaker routine, but I recall her advice having an overall vibe of "Well I acknowledge that I don't know all the details but I think love is worth pursuing", as opposed to Yay's "Shut up nerds and do what I say, you're welcome in advance" approach. I think there's a pretty clear difference between the two!


Honestly, I thought that might be a part of the parody/joke. Like, this version of Yay is how Reddit have characterised Willow as being - they've exaggerated because 'the internet' and Jeph is almost going "You thought that was bad? I'll show you just how bad it could actually get"  :Small Tongue: 

Jeph has said that he doesn't to read any social media about his comic, but this wouldn't be the first time something that apparently 'answers' a criticism has shown up, so... either by design or coincidence?

----------


## Cikomyr2

Seems this is one big setup of "yay learns they suck at this" situation.

----------


## DaFlipp

> Seems this is one big setup of "yay learns they suck at this" situation.


I think you mean "Yay learns that none of these plebeians appreciate how GREAT they are at this".

----------


## Radar

> I think you mean "Yay learns that none of these plebeians appreciate how GREAT they are at this".


Yup! She has people skills indeed.  :Small Wink:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Good lord, five straight pages of "Elliot should go to therapy but fumfers over it". Can we get back to resolving this Cubetown thing, or...whatever Brunhilde and her cake-named pastel robot friend with the rockin' booty are up to? If Renee is gonna keep being around, can we hear more about her new TCG boyfriend? Does Emily still exist? Literally anything except for this?

----------


## Shadow of the Sun

Having dealt with people who really need therapy but won't get it, it's a very aggravating situation.

----------


## Vinyadan

After that comment, I expect Renee to participate in Yay's sexual initiation.

----------


## Ionathus

Since Wraith pointed out the compressed timeline of Marten & Dora's breakup on the previous page of this thread, I've been really noticing that drawn-out nature of the current conversations. The inevitable parade of "what do all the other characters think of X?" instead of just, you know, resolving that scene and moving on to something else. 

I'm genuinely surprised we didn't get Marten talking to, like, Steve about Cubetown. 

PROS: We get to see Steve for the 2nd time this decade. 
CONS: More Cubetown.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

And now we're at the part of the Yay-involved storyline where Jeph Roko lectures the audience Yay about interpersonal boundaries when the results weren't actually a problem. 

"You're lucky that grocery store wasn't on fire when you went shopping, because sometimes they are and you can't use your debit card on a machine that's melted from heat."

----------


## Wraith

I'm honestly not sure what would be worse - that Yay really is this pathetically co-dependant and insecure all the time in a huge step down from their supremely confident Evil Robot Overlord introduction, or that they might just be becoming a weird sort of asexual incel-type character. 'Nice Guy' deeds go in, sexual rewards friendship comes out, kind of thing as though Roko were some kind of emotional vending machine. I... just don't want to read about either of those sorts of characters.

Maybe we'll find out more after next week, which will likely feature Elliot going back to Clinton and re-explaining _this week_ to him, again.  :Small Yuk: 




> And now we're at the part of the Yay-involved storyline where Jeph Roko lectures the audience Yay about interpersonal boundaries when the results weren't actually a problem.


Roko kind of has a point. You can't bully people into going to therapy, it has to be something that they actually want to do because they want to change themselves. Yay hasn't yet solved the problem, they have just harangued someone who is mentally ill until they said what Yay wanted to hear. Elliot being such a push-over is no guarantee that he'll really act on it, only that he might try harder not to get 'caught' next time.

----------


## theangelJean

> Roko kind of has a point. You can't bully people into going to therapy, it has to be something that they actually want to do because they want to change themselves. Yay hasn't yet solved the problem, they have just harangued someone who is mentally ill until they said what Yay wanted to hear. Elliot being such a push-over is no guarantee that he'll really act on it, only that he might try harder not to get 'caught' next time.


He might also go to therapy and have it solve nothing. Maybe he is unable to engage with it, or maybe his therapist isn't great. But I don't know if I want to read that story in QC.

----------


## Rodin

> Since Wraith pointed out the compressed timeline of Marten & Dora's breakup on the previous page of this thread, I've been really noticing that drawn-out nature of the current conversations. The inevitable parade of "what do all the other characters think of X?" instead of just, you know, resolving that scene and moving on to something else. 
> 
> I'm genuinely surprised we didn't get Marten talking to, like, Steve about Cubetown. 
> 
> PROS: We get to see Steve for the 2nd time this decade. 
> CONS: More Cubetown.


Another thing is that Marten and Dora's breakup happens quite quickly...when it finally actually happens after several scenes indicating the relationship is troubled.  We didn't have long drawn out conversations about it because those conversations happened spread out across _months_ of comic.  Here we've moved straight from everything being hunky-dory to everything is terrible with no warning.  It highlights both the things I like least about QC at the moment - an unwillingness to put the work in on storylines combined with the lack of a wider cast to break stories up and give the illusion of time passing.

----------


## Mechalich

> Another thing is that Marten and Dora's breakup happens quite quickly...when it finally actually happens after several scenes indicating the relationship is troubled.  We didn't have long drawn out conversations about it because those conversations happened spread out across _months_ of comic.  Here we've moved straight from everything being hunky-dory to everything is terrible with no warning.  It highlights both the things I like least about QC at the moment - an unwillingness to put the work in on storylines combined with the lack of a wider cast to break stories up and give the illusion of time passing.


This specific incident, at least, is very specifically the result of Jeph skipping ahead several months for unknown reasons. It means that several relationships that had just begun prior to the skip, such as Renee/Dan and Brun/Mille have now existed for several months without any information regarding the intervening span. Even non-romantic relationships such as May's extremely new job as Marigold's business manager have now become, simply by virtue of time passing, semi-permanent. It was a really poorly chosen move.

----------


## Wraith

> It highlights both the things I like least about QC at the moment - an unwillingness to put the work in on storylines combined with the lack of a wider cast to break stories up and give the illusion of time passing.


I think that the problem is that Jeph has told months worth of stories - the Marigold/Aurelia meetup, the interview, the discussions around Cubetown, Marten visiting his Mom and Sam, Sam visiting Emmett's house and meeting their Mom - but instead of just spacing them out a bit, he's vomiting out every single panel that he can think of about any single subject, smothering the arc in attention without a break, before abruptly moving on to something entirely new. This causes fatigue in the arc, not just for the readers who get bored of the same 3 talking heads over and over again, but also clearly in Jeph who runs out of steam as the arc slouches in quality.

I don't necessarily blame him for this - I can't imagine living as a creator, with my livelihood dependant on whatever inspiration strikes me at the time, or what it feels like to have ideas for 10 strips in my head and not knowing what else to do when they're exhausted, or if nothing pops up in the meantime. It must be terrifying, and it makes perfect sense to get out as much as possible from one story before taking the plunging leap into hoping that there's another one coming up next.

However, it would flow a lot more smoothly if he did a few strips of each arc at a time. He wouldn't even have to write different strips or put them out of order, just... Do the "Marigold and Aurelia agree to meet up" thing, then do the "Tai talks to her students about getting married" bit, then do the "Marigold arrives at Coffee Of Doom", then as Marigold and Aurelia leave together, stay with Claire and show her interview before cutting back to Aurelia's house for the stream....

See what I mean? Little bits of each story to A) mix up the characters and locations instead of having the same pair of people have the same conversation for 4 weeks, and B) it gives the impression of time passing naturally, instead of it looking like a solid 24 hours of Marten and Claire asking different people the same 2 questions about Cubetown before a huge skip to Elliot and Clinton apparently having been together for months and suddenly they're having serious relationship problems.

That's why the Dora/Marten break up worked. An event would be shown to demonstrate a problem, then it'd move on to another subject for a while to make it look like the problems weren't sudden and unexpected, but spread out over time and culminating realistically in a confrontation.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Yay hasn't yet solved the problem [...] Elliot being such a push-over is no guarantee that he'll really act on it, only that he might try harder not to get 'caught' next time.


Or he might actually do it. Might this, might that, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. The way the writing has been going lately, I expect we'll either find out a year from now or Jeph will forget Elliot exists next week. Roko's "point" is nothing but preachy garbage that relies on characters taking optimal routes and heavily considering every possible angle to every single word while also keeping a conversation going in real time.

It's like if I go to the grocery store and pick up a can of beans for my own dinner, and when I get home my roommate starts scolding me because the beans aren't their preferred brand and they'd have gone with corn, going on and on about how not everyone likes the beans in the first place and some people are even allergic to beans.

----------


## Vinyadan

Hey, Jeph has made the news!  :Small Big Grin:  https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/elon-m...ions-1.6648071

----------


## Kish

> Or he might actually do it. Might this, might that, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. The way the writing has been going lately, I expect we'll either find out a year from now or Jeph will forget Elliot exists next week. Roko's "point" is nothing but preachy garbage that relies on characters taking optimal routes and heavily considering every possible angle to every single word while also keeping a conversation going in real time.
> 
> It's like if I go to the grocery store and pick up a can of beans for my own dinner, and when I get home my roommate starts scolding me because the beans aren't their preferred brand and they'd have gone with corn, going on and on about how not everyone likes the beans in the first place and some people are even allergic to beans.


That is certainly quite an interpretation of "most people would be offended by someone barging in and lecturing them about how they need to go to therapy."

Actually the whole "my own dinner" thing has me scratching my head. Since your declaration hinges on what Yay did mapping to something that impacts only you, is Elliott the can of beans in this analogy?

----------


## The Glyphstone

> Hey, Jeph has made the news!  https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/elon-m...ions-1.6648071


I'm not sure what I expected Jeph to look like, but somehow that isn't it.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Since your declaration hinges on what Yay did mapping to something that impacts only you, is Elliott the can of beans in this analogy?


Not so much "only impacts me" as "doesn't impact my roommate or the hypothetical allergic people". And Elliot is the clerk I bought the beans from.

Far as today's strip goes, of course Claire has an emergency granola bar. You never know when you'll need some oats. Not sure why it would matter, though, whether murder-bots are illegal in Canada. They're bots that commit murder. Anyone building them probably isn't going to care about laws. I'm sure it's a joke, but webcomic discussion can't exist without bad-faith literalist readings of offhand remarks.

----------


## Mechalich

I guess Cubetown comped them the airfare? I can't see how it makes financial sense for Marten and Claire to fly otherwise, especially since they couldn't book very far in advance. Generally people who live in MA and are going to NS drive. It's a long day driving, but doable, and they have two drivers.

----------


## theNater

> I guess Cubetown comped them the airfare?


Indeed, that was one of Claire's conditions.

----------


## Wraith

> I'm not sure what I expected Jeph to look like, but somehow that isn't it.


It's less surprising if you have a really, REALLY good memory  :Small Tongue: 




> Not sure why it would matter, though, whether murder-bots are illegal in Canada. They're bots that commit murder. Anyone building them probably isn't going to care about laws. I'm sure it's a joke, but webcomic discussion can't exist without bad-faith literalist readings of offhand remarks.


It's a call-back. Marten has actually met murder-drones. Claire thinks she's being flippant with random banter, but frankly I'll put even odds on them actually meetings more of them at Cubetown, with a not unreasonably high change that one of them transferred down from Station and recognises Marten.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## otakuryoga

i dunno
if cubetown decides to go down the "kill all humans" route i don't think Canadian law enforcement will make them pause...

----------


## Mechalich

> It's a call-back. Marten has actually met murder-drones. Claire thinks she's being flippant with random banter, but frankly I'll put even odds on them actually meetings more of them at Cubetown, with a not unreasonably high change that one of them transferred down from Station and recognises Marten.


Well, the thing about 'murder-drones' is that they have to actually utilize some means of murder. Generally that's going to mean firearms, and Canada does, in fact, have considerably stricter laws than the US in that regard. If the US, in QC, maintains some kind of 'right to arm drones' law, it would be extremely likely for Canada to have a 'no armed drones allowed' law.

----------


## The Glyphstone

> Well, the thing about 'murder-drones' is that they have to actually utilize some means of murder. Generally that's going to mean firearms, and Canada does, in fact, have considerably stricter laws than the US in that regard. If the US, in QC, maintains some kind of 'right to arm drones' law, it would be extremely likely for Canada to have a 'no armed drones allowed' law.


The murder-drones on Station don't appear to have any weapons except unreasonably large chopping claws, so I wouldn't rule out Canadian murder drones with razor-sharp hockey sticks or something.

----------


## Wraith

> i dunno
> if cubetown decides to go down the "kill all humans" route i don't think Canadian law enforcement will make them pause...


Pause? No. Apologise, though...?  :Small Wink: 




> The murder-drones on Station don't appear to have any weapons except unreasonably large chopping claws, so I wouldn't rule out Canadian murder drones with razor-sharp hockey sticks or something.


No one said it had to be direct, or obvious. Cyanide-in-your-toothpaste, kind of thing. Or they just depressurise your bedroom while you're asleep and flush you into the North Atlantic; if there's no body, there's no crime!  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Or they just depressurise your bedroom while you're asleep and flush you into the North Atlantic; if there's no body, there's no crime!


The ocean would be a kindness. Where do y'all think Dora gets the "coffee" from? Don't tell me you believe that story about the magic beans with mysterious energy-giving properties, now. That's 100% human remains from all the murder-droning goin' on.

----------


## Rodin

> It's less surprising if you have a really, REALLY good memory


Its also a really old picture.  The image on his screen there is of May the first time we see her out of jail.  Thats got to be at least 5 years ago now, if not more.

----------


## Mordokai

> The murder-drones on Station don't appear to have any weapons except unreasonably large chopping claws, so I wouldn't rule out Canadian murder drones with razor-sharp hockey sticks or something.


It's posts like this one that make me wish these boards had a Like feature  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Cikomyr2

> The murder-drones on Station don't appear to have any weapons except unreasonably large chopping claws, so I wouldn't rule out Canadian murder drones with razor-sharp hockey sticks or something.


I don't know, itd be more efficient to have stick-propelled puck-nades, or puck-shuriken.

----------


## Wraith

> Its also a really old picture.  The image on his screen there is of May the first time we see her out of jail.  Thats got to be at least 5 years ago now, if not more.


The copyright in the corner of the comic I linked says 2003-*2008* so "or more" is an understatement, but I've also seen the picture of Jeph before so I knew he hadn't changed much in the intervening decade and doubted he had much in the last few years.  :Small Tongue:  But yeah, I didn't say it was perfect, but its not like tattoos and plugs go away (easily).

Apparently we're at a very weird part of the internet's lifecycle where people are forgetting parts of it - QC has been going for 19 years. So has Order of the Stick. Both were pre-dated by Geocities and AngelFire and _I can remember both of those things oh god oh god am *i* the man now, dog!?!_

----------


## ElliotO

Where do you draw the line for a murderdrone though? Like how much automation does there have to be for it to be illegal? Modern air-to-air missiles are fully autonomously guided once fired. Think about that. We already live in a murderdrone world.

----------


## theangelJean

> Where do you draw the line for a murderdrone though? Like how much automation does there have to be for it to be illegal? Modern air-to-air missiles are fully autonomously guided once fired. Think about that. We already live in a murderdrone world.


Doesn't the "drone" bit refer to hovering noisily? So a missile wouldn't necessarily count, however automated - it can't come and find you without being fired.

I don't know where you draw the line, though. A drone has to be assembled and maybe even let out of its box before it can come find you. But in QC verse the drones can be mostly-always-on without forever being in kill mode. Missiles, not so much.

----------


## Yuki Akuma

> Doesn't the "drone" bit refer to hovering noisily? So a missile wouldn't necessarily count, however automated - it can't come and find you without being fired.


... No?

The etymology of "drone" comes from the name for a male bee. The sound and the machine share the same etymology, but are themselves unrelated.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Drones can certainly be used as missiles, but missiles are not necessarily drones. If a line needs to be drawn, I'd put it in the general vicinity of 'Can you use it twice?'

----------


## DavidSh

"through customs, then ... baggage claim"?  Does this version of Canada not expect you to have your claimed luggage with you when you pass through customs?

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> "through customs, then ... baggage claim"?  Does this version of Canada not expect you to have your claimed luggage with you when you pass through customs?


Having never been through an airport (partly because of what they did to Tom Hanks in that movie), I'm a little confused about this also. I thought customs was where they checked your bag for foreign liquids and guinea pig meat, so having your bag with you would be sort of handy for the process.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

I haven't flown internationally, so I'm not sure how the customs gates operate, but for domestic US flights the baggage claim is typically outside the security area.

----------


## Mechalich

> "through customs, then ... baggage claim"?  Does this version of Canada not expect you to have your claimed luggage with you when you pass through customs?


My recollection is a little fuzzy because I haven't checked baggage any time flying through Canada, but I believe that the current system is multi-stage. Passengers exiting the plane are indeed sent to initial CBSA inspection prior to collecting any checked luggage - because of baggage fees, a very large percentage of travelers won't have checked luggage, the fact that Claire and Marten do indicates they have no clue how to pack for a short trip, which is admittedly in character - allowing CBSA to stop anyone they wish to stop prior to them accessing their baggage - rather significant in the case of someone who might be armed & dangerous or the like. Following retrieval of checked baggage those passengers may need to go through a second CBSA inspection station with their checked luggage if they have either declared anything or if they've been marked out by CBSA for additional scrutiny.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> because of baggage fees, a very large percentage of travelers won't have checked luggage, the fact that Claire and Marten do indicates they have no clue how to pack for a short trip, which is admittedly in character


Technically, they said their contact was meeting them outside the baggage claim area, not that they had baggage to pick up. Baggage claim usually being next to the arrival pick-up zone, in my experience, people generally pass it or nearby it when exiting the terminal.

----------


## Wraith

> ... No?
> 
> The etymology of "drone" comes from the name for a male bee. The sound and the machine share the same etymology, but are themselves unrelated.


Always weird to me how some ancient guy cracked open a hive, looked at the hundreds of thousands of creatures that were actively trying to kill him, and thought: "Yep, that 0.1% at the bottom must be where all the noise is coming from."  :Small Tongue: 

That being said, I take it back - technically Marten hasn't met murder-drones, he's met murder-_droids_ who happen to have drone-like parts. At this time I would like to offer my apologies to the criminally homicidal artificial intelligences in the audience and ask for privacy at this time of self-reflection.

----------


## theangelJean

> ... No?
> 
> The etymology of "drone" comes from the name for a male bee. The sound and the machine share the same etymology, but are themselves unrelated.


TIL that the sound and the bee are separate meanings of the word with different etymologies.

----------


## Mechalich

> That being said, I take it back - technically Marten hasn't met murder-drones, he's met murder-_droids_ who happen to have drone-like parts. At this time I would like to offer my apologies to the criminally homicidal artificial intelligences in the audience and ask for privacy at this time of self-reflection.


Droid is a trademarked term owned by Lucasfilm. Legally, droids can only exist in Star Wars. Autonomous sapient AIs in non-humanoid bodies have been called drones in many media, notably including the Culture universe.

----------


## Wraith

> Droid is a trademarked term owned by Lucasfilm. Legally, droids can only exist in Star Wars. Autonomous sapient AIs in non-humanoid bodies have been called drones in many media, notably including the Culture universe.


I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do so, but that's the word that Jeph used in the comic I linked. Twice, in fact. And one use of "drois" which was probably an attempt at a third.  :Small Tongue: 

Re today's comic; yes, those are absolutely the correct faces to be using.

----------


## Radar

> Re today's comic; yes, those are absolutely the correct faces to be using.


Indeed. You never, ever block an exit at the airport.

----------


## VoxRationis

I'm honestly surprised that Moray's body can wave an arm back and forth rapidly without coming apart.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I'm honestly surprised that Moray's body can wave an arm back and forth rapidly without coming apart.


She's a slime girl. Waving an arm kinda fast isn't the most vigorous thing I've seen them do.

----------


## Mechalich

> She's a slime girl. Waving an arm kinda fast isn't the most vigorous thing I've seen them do.


Well, it's not clear how Moray moves at all. I mean, QC has obviously played pretty loose with the science for a long time, I mean even Pintsize is a mess when you try to think about how exactly he functions, but Moray is really pushing it. Whatever makes her up has to be phenomenally advanced, I mean, my best guess for what she is would be a distributed nanotech system advanced enough to achieve sapience bound to a gelatinous matrix both strong enough and flexible enough to mimic human physical averages which is...a lot, like gray goo power level a lot. Since we saw Moray put a physical piece of paper inside herself we also know her matrix can survive ingestion of physical objects, which strong suggests she can _eat people_.

----------


## theangelJean

Meanwhile, removal of the dialog in panel 4 today means that "Moray with a sign" is effectively the punchline two days in a row.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Meanwhile, removal of the dialog in panel 4 today means that "Moray with a sign" is effectively the punchline two days in a row.


Yeah, but it's a really funny sign.

----------


## Wraith

> Meanwhile, removal of the dialog in panel 4 today means that "Moray with a sign" is effectively the punchline two days in a row.


Both comics are pretty much the same thing. Panel one involves Marten and Claire explaining something that just happened in a way far more boring than just showing it happening.

Panel 2 is Marten and Claire asking about the arrangements that should have been made before they set off and still not knowing what they're doing after ~70 comics of asking about it.

And the punchline of each comic is "Moray looks ridiculous".

I just don't understand how the comic can still squeeze yet more inane, repetitive nothing out of "what is Cubetown like?" but can't find a single panel about being stuck on an airplane with a wacky AI pilot, or something. Make the in-flight hostess be Crushbot! or a Murder-Droid! Or something!

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

...And completely out of the blue, a turkey strip that I actually find amusing. Perhaps they should have used creepy turkeys rather than bored apes...

----------


## geoduck

And along with everything else already mentioned, inevitably Claire is going to agree to work with this person, when she should get right back on the plane and go home.

----------


## Ionathus

So far in this scene, the punchlines involving Moray have been "Moray is excited," "Moray is excited," and "Moray is excited." 

Blergh.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> So far in this scene, the punchlines involving Moray have been "Moray is excited," "Moray is excited," and "Moray is excited." 
> 
> Blergh.


It's the rule of threes?

----------


## Mechalich

> And along with everything else already mentioned, inevitably Claire is going to agree to work with this person, when she should get right back on the plane and go home.


There's also the problem that, if Claire does agree to work for Moray and Cubetown's various other representations of institutional incompetence, she will be obligated to fight them, more or less full time. That's what workplace comedies that feature institutional incompetence _do_, the main characters war ceaselessly against management in a desperate and usually futile struggle to try and make their business/government/academic institution function properly. In such setups it is generally useful for the managerial characters to be clear antagonists. For example, a famous character with a position equivalent to Moray's would be Catbert, evil director of human resources, from Dilbert. Catbert can be very funny, but he's functionally an enemy of everyone else in the main cast (sometimes including other managers) and is suitably formidable enough to perform that role.

Moray, by contrast, is a literal puddle. Claire is going to _crush her_ purely by virtue of not being utterly useless. The comic has already, via Yay, implied this will happen. Claire is being positioned to conquer Cubetown and lead it to the promised land with minimal effort and development. This is both unappealing as a plot, an uninteresting use of Claire (and by extension Marten), and an uninspired way to try to maximize the amount of 'weird AI' time in-comic.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Idk about all that office politics stuff, but the slime girl's "hair" vexes me. Is it supposed to work on Mickey Mouse rules and face the same angle at all times? Is it meant to be a bun and bangs or blobby pigtails or what? I wanna grab it, squeeze it off her head, put a baked salmon in it, and feed that to some post-war American suburbanites.

----------


## VoxRationis

> Idk about all that office politics stuff, but the slime girl's "hair" vexes me. Is it supposed to work on Mickey Mouse rules and face the same angle at all times? Is it meant to be a bun and bangs or blobby pigtails or what? I wanna grab it, squeeze it off her head, put a baked salmon in it, and feed that to some post-war American suburbanites.


I think it's supposed to be at least a stylized representation of a bun above the neck and a gathered volume above the brow (the name for such a style eludes me at the moment), jauntily offset from the centerline. The intended effect is, I think, to imitate mid-century hairstyles. Really, all of Moray's body seems to be designed with representation above function; aside from the hair and the secondary sexual characteristics, she has bumps on her back that mimic shoulder blades, even though none of the internal structures that create those visible deformations on a human's body exist for Moray. This makes a certain amount of sense for someone whose role in the organization seems to be primarily working with people rather than directly contributing to the enterprise, though it seems to be taken a little bit further in Moray's case than with most people's efforts to dress for work.

----------


## theangelJean

Except if she really wanted to fit in with humans she'd, well, dress. At all.

----------


## Wraith

> Moray, by contrast, is a literal puddle. Claire is going to _crush her_ purely by virtue of not being utterly useless. The comic has already, via Yay, implied this will happen. Claire is being positioned to conquer Cubetown and lead it to the promised land with minimal effort and development. This is both unappealing as a plot, an uninteresting use of Claire (and by extension Marten), and an uninspired way to try to maximize the amount of 'weird AI' time in-comic.


A Cubetown member will state that they have a problem. Claire will make an innocuous comment that gets interpreted as a viable yet completely obvious solution. "The spreadsheet keeps making out CEO crash!" for example, will be responded to with "Why not use more than one spreadsheet? And host it on a server where more than one person can view it?", at which point the first person will announce what a brilliant idea that is, and here's a big pile of money and/or underlings who you can assign to make it happen, with our most fawning gratitude.

Claire will then walk into her new home looking exhausted, flop deflated onto the couch, and tell Marten how hard her job is, prompting him to reassure her just how great she is at it and what a positive contribution she's making.

Because QC isn't about conflict, it's about emotional comfort food. "Watch this adorable assortment of hopeless 20-somethings get exactly what they want and need, while pretending that it could also happen to you, the reader".

As someone who can barely see their 20's in the rear-view mirror, it's truly _sickening_.  :Small Wink:

----------


## halfeye

> Except if she really wanted to fit in with humans she'd, well, dress. At all.


Yeah, that bothers me too.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Except if she really wanted to fit in with humans she'd, well, dress. At all.


Yeah, but then she wouldn't be as much of a blatant fetish character, which would defeat the point of her existence. Then again, I could say that about every character in the comic, so maybe she fits in better than we've been giving credit for.

----------


## Vinyadan

I bet that Patrons increased a lot during the Mommymilkers strips. Why stop the boat?  :Small Cool:

----------


## Wraith

> I bet that Patrons increased a lot during the Mommymilkers strips. Why stop the boat?


Not notably. There's a sharp drop-off at the end of every month as people seem to be giving up on the comic, however November 2022 is the first time in about half a year that his subscribers have increased above the previous months losses. Say what you like about the comic's glacial pace, but the "Elliot and Clinton have a toxic relationship" thing and/or promise of actually going to Cubetown seems to have pulled in the audience again.

July 2022 was when Claire had her interview and we first met Moray. Subscribers PLUNGED immediately at that, though.

----------


## Ionathus

Side question on the Patreon thing: I saw his Twitter graph (before suspension of course) and it looks like his subscribers peaked in July 2018, but then fell sharply that same month? By quite a large margin. Is there a story there?

----------


## Wraith

Doing some VERY sketchy maths, 5 years ago was about 1300 comics ago, which at this point was the arc where Bubbles and Faye formally got together, so that particularly nice arc could have driven some traffic? IIRC that was also when a number of blogs and minor news outlets picked up his increasingly prevalent LGBT+ themes, possibly as a result of the same pairing, so that might have contributed, too?

Patreon subscribers drop quite sharply EVERY month for most creators; I guess in Jeph's case some people made a point of supporting the lesbian robot for a month but weren't that interested in the comic long-term?

----------


## Vinyadan

I don't know if Patreon ever solved the problem, but there used to be a bunch of people that subscribed to a comic, spent the month getting all they were due as patrons, and unsubscribed right before they got billed at the end of the month. If nothing's changed, that's how I would read those drops.

----------


## Radar

> I don't know if Patreon ever solved the problem, but there used to be a bunch of people that subscribed to a comic, spent the month getting all they were due as patrons, and unsubscribed right before they got billed at the end of the month. If nothing's changed, that's how I would read those drops.


As far as I know, Patreon at least tested charging upfront for a given month. If this option is currently available for creators, I do not know.

----------


## geoduck

> As far as I know, Patreon at least tested charging upfront for a given month. If this option is currently available for creators, I do not know.


Yes, they offer a couple different payout schedules now.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Goo girl functions like goo girl. We're all very surprised.

Marten's mouth in panel 3 scares me.

----------


## Daywalker1983

> Goo girl functions like goo girl. We're all very surprised.
> 
> Marten's mouth in panel 3 scares me.


Fetish intensifies...

----------


## Vinyadan

> Fetish intensifies...


I wonder, does she have a bubble butt? You know, as a lifesaving device?

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I wonder, does she have a bubble butt? You know, as a lifesaving device?


She's packin' a decent amount of booty, from the look of it. Then again, the art seems to vary wildly on how much curvature some characters have, sometimes fluctuating between panels. Maybe tomorrow she'll have Pancake Ass Syndrome and Marten will be the one with the dumptruck. Of course, as a collection of goo, I imagine she can reassemble herself in the event of an otherwise fatal splattering, so safety may not even be a concern.

----------


## Yuki Akuma

As a goo, she may also be able to rearrange her body to give herself the ass she feels like having at any given time.

----------


## Wraith

> I wonder, does she have a bubble butt? You know, as a lifesaving device?


I doubt that Jeph would make Star Trek references, at this point. Not because I don't think he is a nerd, but because I think that vtubing has rotted his brain and he doesn't know none-anime references any more.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> As a goo, she may also be able to rearrange her body to give herself the ass she feels like having at any given time.


I don't believe Moray actually qualifies as a goo, she's actually a sack-bound gelatinous organism, rather like a human-sized and shaped-amoeba. Unlike a truly amorphous creation like Sergeant Schlock, she doesn't leave pieces of herself all over the place nor does contact with her pierce her external membran - Kevin put his hand through her head and the membrane deformed around his hand rather than allow any contact with her internals. That means the membrane encasing her and the various translucent components that compromise her internals (which appear to provide her a fully range of motion, human-equivalent strength, and a functional, if somewhat, um, dubiously prioritized, human-level intelligence) need to be _incredibly advanced_. The ability to create something like her represents a massive materials engineering revolution.

This is doubly annoying because the ability to simply _create Moray_ implies a level of organizational competence Cubetown has not otherwise displayed, especially since apparently she's considered safe to be around even though by rights the stuff comprising her ought to be incredibly toxic (imagine taking your computer, putting it through a blender, and then mixing it with saline solution, the result would not be something you'd want to touch).

----------


## geoduck

> I don't believe Moray actually qualifies as a goo, she's actually a sack-bound gelatinous organism, rather like a human-sized and shaped-amoeba. Unlike a truly amorphous creation like Sergeant Schlock, she doesn't leave pieces of herself all over the place nor does contact with her pierce her external membran - Kevin put his hand through her head and the membrane deformed around his hand rather than allow any contact with her internals. That means the membrane encasing her and the various translucent components that compromise her internals (which appear to provide her a fully range of motion, human-equivalent strength, and a functional, if somewhat, um, dubiously prioritized, human-level intelligence) need to be _incredibly advanced_. The ability to create something like her represents a massive materials engineering revolution.
> 
> This is doubly annoying because the ability to simply _create Moray_ implies a level of organizational competence Cubetown has not otherwise displayed, especially since apparently she's considered safe to be around even though by rights the stuff comprising her ought to be incredibly toxic (imagine taking your computer, putting it through a blender, and then mixing it with saline solution, the result would not be something you'd want to touch).


You have now given this subject more thought than Jeph has.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I'm assuming this "Ol' Boaty" is either a living boat or a human who hates being called that.

----------


## DavidSh

> I'm assuming this "Ol' Boaty" is either a living boat or a human who hates being called that.


What are the odds that the full name is "Boaty McBoatface"?

----------


## Mordokai

> You have now given this subject more thought than Jeph has.


This seems to be somewhat of a recurring thing.

----------


## The Glyphstone

The question is, is he underthinking it or are we overthinking it?

----------


## Mechalich

> The question is, is he underthinking it or are we overthinking it?


In this case, it depends on whether or not Claire and by extension Marten are actually going to move to Cubetown or not. If they are not and this is all just a bizarre 'aren't those AIs weird?' road trip, then whatever it probably doesn't matter and the fact that QC's vaguely future-shocked version of our world doesn't actually hold together isn't actually important (nor is it new). 

On the other hand, if they do move to Cubetown and Moray becomes a significant member of the cast (and she's already probably in the top 10 for total appearances in 2022) then gaining a full grasp on her physical function is important, for both comedic and dramatic purposes. Notably, if Moray is a vehicle for physical comedy, and all indications so far are a bright flashing 'yes' in that regard, a proper understanding of her physical structure on the author's part is important. 

It also depends, on a broader level, on story direction. QC has, over time, become more and more of a comic about AIs. The problem is that the world-building supporting these AIs is inconsistent, minimal, and possesses massive gaps, and those gaps bleed over into in-universe character knowledge, including the recent example of how basically no one seems to understand how Cubetown operates at even the most general, 'what's on it's wikipedia page' level. One of the consequences of this is that whenever the comic engages in allegory, such as in the recent AI assembly line plot, there's a complete lack of context that undercuts the entire plot.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

As dull as the Moray Picking Them Up arc has been so far, I have to admit to having a soft spot for "The Ritual" as a joke. What ritual? What's it for? Why do we need a ritual? Why are you grinning like that? Where did that robe come from?

Right up there with "It's happening again!" when something ridiculous occurs that should probably be a unique circumstance.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> As dull as the Moray Picking Them Up arc has been so far, I have to admit to having a soft spot for "The Ritual" as a joke. What ritual? What's it for? Why do we need a ritual? Why are you grinning like that? Where did that robe come from?
> 
> Right up there with "It's happening again!" when something ridiculous occurs that should probably be a unique circumstance.


We know The Ritual is what turned Marten from a Californian boy to a New Englander.

----------


## Ionathus

> As dull as the Moray Picking Them Up arc has been so far, I have to admit to having a soft spot for "The Ritual" as a joke. What ritual? What's it for? Why do we need a ritual? Why are you grinning like that? Where did that robe come from?


The humor of THE RITUAL is pure nostalgia for me, since I remember laughing at it the first time. Hearkening back to simpler punchlines of yesteryear where they joke about New England culture.

Agreed with the poster above who points out that wacky-AI-based humor is okay on its own, but weird if you *also* want to build (inconsistent) lore around AIs being a severely oppressed demographic.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> On the other hand, if they do move to Cubetown and Moray becomes a significant member of the cast (and she's already probably in the top 10 for total appearances in 2022) then gaining a full grasp on her physical function is important, for both comedic and dramatic purposes. Notably, if Moray is a vehicle for physical comedy, and all indications so far are a bright flashing 'yes' in that regard, a proper understanding of her physical structure on the author's part is important.


I disagree. 

He's established that despite appearing to be gelatinous, Moray's body holds itself together well enough for her to work and travel autonomously. He's also established that objects including human appendages can be put inside and come out again unscathed. He doesn't need to scientifically explain how this is possible, he just needs to maintain a relative sense of consistency.

Trying to figure out how her cell membranes work or whatever is nothing but a huge waste of time.

----------


## Wraith

It was funnier the last time that Marten did 'The Ritual' joke and Dora joined in with him to freak out Faye, rather than be a buzzkill and make him stop. I kind of want to see what happens when a goo-bot freaks out, maybe she'll change colour or something?  :Small Tongue: 

That being said, I'm not sure if Claire is scolding Marten because he's being a dork, or because she's worried that he's suggesting Cthulian practices and _that Moray might not realise that he's joking_.

If the latter is even remotely close to the truth, why in God's holy name is she still considering working here?




> The question is, is he underthinking it or are we overthinking it?


Your use of the word 'or' in that question forces me to answer "No" on a technicality.

----------


## Radar

> If the latter is even remotely close to the truth, why in God's holy name is she still considering working here?


Because in the land of the blind, a one-eyed person gets to be the king. On a second thought in this case is seems as bad of an idea as being the king of all cats.

edit:



> Your use of the word 'or' in that question forces me to answer "No" on a technicality.


Technically, that applies only if you interpret "or" as exclusive, which might not be the case despite the most common use of that word.

----------


## Vinyadan

> The question is, is he underthinking it or are we overthinking it?


Hard to say. This forum is the result of almost twenty years of nerd thought, and overanalysis is inscribed in its DNA. On the other hand, QC, starting out as a fairly grounded life simulation, branched out into other fields that it handles in a rather shallow way. I think it would be hard for it to adapt to our thoughts without dropping its "a bit of everything" routine and adapting to being a single genre.




> We know The Ritual is what turned Marten from a Californian boy to a New Englander.


_And on the fields of Halifax
Shall the New Englander
Defeat the New Highlander
And win the Crown of Cubetown.

_What? It's in the Ritual!  :Small Tongue:  I mean, the other one, which I just made up  :Small Cool: 

I don't know what music Jeph currently listens to, but it would be cool (and absurd) if the Cubetown adventure turned into Apex (the album by Canadian band Unleash the Archers). It's all about an immortal being being awakened so he can enable an evil matriarch who wants to perform an equally evil ritual.

----------


## Wraith

> Because in the land of the blind, a one-eyed person gets to be the king.


In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a _freak_ who will be forced to conform or find themselves driven out as a _menace_. I think that was said by Bill Bailey, and who am I to argue?  :Small Big Grin: 




> Technically...


So, like 'a technicality', then?  :Small Tongue: 




> I don't know what music Jeph currently listens to, but it would be cool (and absurd) if the Cubetown adventure turned into Apex (the album by Canadian band Unleash the Archers). It's all about an immortal being being awakened so he can enable an evil matriarch who wants to perform an equally evil ritual.


For a moment there, I mistook Apex for _Aphex Twin_ and I started to get really interested in what that would look like! Alas....

----------


## Traab

> It was funnier the last time that Marten did 'The Ritual' joke and Dora joined in with him to freak out Faye, rather than be a buzzkill and make him stop. I kind of want to see what happens when a goo-bot freaks out, maybe she'll change colour or something? 
> 
> That being said, I'm not sure if Claire is scolding Marten because he's being a dork, or because she's worried that he's suggesting Cthulian practices and _that Moray might not realise that he's joking_.
> 
> If the latter is even remotely close to the truth, why in God's holy name is she still considering working here?
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word 'or' in that question forces me to answer "No" on a technicality.


Or she is upset that her boyfriend is making comments that might torpedo her chance at getting the job before she can even decide if she truly wants it. You dont crack jokes at a job interview as a general rule. You dont know what the interviewer finds funny or not. Especially this type of joke as it might not be recognized as one. Its one thing to tell a lame knock knock joke and have it bomb, its something else entirely to make a joke out of something that could be taken seriously in these circumstances.

----------


## Mordokai

> Or she is upset that her boyfriend is making comments that might torpedo her chance at getting the job before she can even decide if she truly wants it. You dont crack jokes at a job interview as a general rule. You dont know what the interviewer finds funny or not. Especially this type of joke as it might not be recognized as one. Its one thing to tell a lame knock knock joke and have it bomb, its something else entirely to make a joke out of something that could be taken seriously in these circumstances.


That may be the case in a serious interview, with a serious interviewer.

With Moray though...

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> That may be the case in a serious interview, with a serious interviewer.
> 
> With Moray though...


Yeah, I don't think Marten joking about The Ritual is gonna "torpedo" anything. Goo Gorl is a little too goo for that to seem plausible.

----------


## Wraith

> Its one thing to tell a lame knock knock joke and have it bomb, its something else entirely to make a joke out of something that could be taken seriously in these circumstances..


The interview was over days ago; Claire succeeded already, they offered her immediate unconditional employment. 

The odds of Moray retracting that over a joke made by Marten - who everyone specifically thinks is cute, remember - based on an event that she implied had already kind of happened independently of their arrival, seems pretty remote even by real world standards, let alone for this shower of idiots.

----------


## Mechalich

> The interview was over days ago; Claire succeeded already, they offered her immediate unconditional employment.


Yeah, Cubetown is actively headhunting Claire. This is highly unusual, because a normal company seeking to fill the kind of position she's actually qualified for - some sort of entry level librarian/data scientist/archives job - would operate under the expectation that they would easily find a qualified candidate willing to say yes immediately (and those who said no would mostly do so for geographic reasons because they can't freely move). 

Now, to be fair to Jeph, I suspect he strongly wants to move Claire and/or Marten to Halifax, and there's a reasonable reason to do that. He's far better at writing with reference to his personal experience than anything else, and he's been living in Halifax since 2015. His disconnect from Northampton and from the US generally has been showing in recent years. At the same time there's really no reason for any sort of ordinary library/government/NGO to hire a random American citizen since the kind of job for which Claire is qualified is not something Canada has in short supply (also, governments also have restrictions on hiring non-resident foreign citizens even for non-secure posts). 

And...that gives us Cubetown, and organization eccentric enough to plausibly hire Claire for no good reason and to pay her enough to bring Marten along (a non-trivial issue given the present Canadian urban housing market). That much makes sense, more or less. The issue, as I see it, is that in a pattern that applies to basically everything the comic has done with AIs in roughly the past decade, is that Jeph pushed it too far. He could have just created an eccentric AI-run research start-up that called Claire because they went down their list alphabetically or something (Augustus plausibly puts her in the top ten) and operates out of a normal office building. Instead, he went with a floating city and Moray.

----------


## Keltest

> Yeah, Cubetown is actively headhunting Claire. This is highly unusual, because a normal company seeking to fill the kind of position she's actually qualified for - some sort of entry level librarian/data scientist/archives job - would operate under the expectation that they would easily find a qualified candidate willing to say yes immediately (and those who said no would mostly do so for geographic reasons because they can't freely move). 
> 
> Now, to be fair to Jeph, I suspect he strongly wants to move Claire and/or Marten to Halifax, and there's a reasonable reason to do that. He's far better at writing with reference to his personal experience than anything else, and he's been living in Halifax since 2015. His disconnect from Northampton and from the US generally has been showing in recent years. At the same time there's really no reason for any sort of ordinary library/government/NGO to hire a random American citizen since the kind of job for which Claire is qualified is not something Canada has in short supply (also, governments also have restrictions on hiring non-resident foreign citizens even for non-secure posts). 
> 
> And...that gives us Cubetown, and organization eccentric enough to plausibly hire Claire for no good reason and to pay her enough to bring Marten along (a non-trivial issue given the present Canadian urban housing market). That much makes sense, more or less. The issue, as I see it, is that in a pattern that applies to basically everything the comic has done with AIs in roughly the past decade, is that Jeph pushed it too far. He could have just created an eccentric AI-run research start-up that called Claire because they went down their list alphabetically or something (Augustus plausibly puts her in the top ten) and operates out of a normal office building. Instead, he went with a floating city and Moray.


One wonders why he couldnt just have her find a library job there though. Heck, my cousin moved to Germany just to get some experience working in a library adjacent field for a bit.

----------


## Mordokai

> The interview was over days ago; Claire succeeded already, they offered her immediate unconditional employment. 
> 
> The odds of Moray retracting that over a joke made by Marten - who everyone specifically thinks is cute, remember - based on an event that she implied had already kind of happened independently of their arrival, seems pretty remote even by real world standards, let alone for this shower of idiots.


Can I just say how much I adore the idea of a gathering of idiots being referred to as a "shower"?

Because I do. A lot.

----------


## Rodin

> One wonders why he couldnt just have her find a library job there though. Heck, my cousin moved to Germany just to get some experience working in a library adjacent field for a bit.


This has been my main complaint from the start.  There's a ton of story potential for putting Claire into a normal library that is being competently run but which is having problems for ordinary reasons like lack of funding and decreased traffic due to people not going to libraries so much anymore.  Claire's usefulness becomes much more natural - she has a graduate degree in Librarying which a smaller regional library staff might not have.  You make the staff quirky like the staff of Coffee of Doom rather than "too dumb to run a photocopier or open a PDF".  Buncha new characters with the library setting being a good place to introduce more as they organically interact with the cast.

Cubetown seems like such a one-trick idea with dead-end storytelling possibilites even if everything goes _right_.

----------


## Vinyadan

To be honest, Boaty looks quite small, compared to the structure it serves. Do we know how many people live/work in Cubetown?

----------


## Mechalich

> Claire's usefulness becomes much more natural - she has a graduate degree in Librarying which a smaller regional library staff might not have.


All actual librarians - who are only a small portion of total library staff - have master's degrees, that's the only degree you get in library science. It's a quirky professional field in that way. And it's not a degree in short supply, the number of people with library science degrees is growing faster than number of positions available. When Jeph portrayed Claire's struggle to find in-field employment as really hard he was getting something right for a change.

Claire doesn't really stand out from any other prospective librarian. The sort of type-A perpetually worried non-assertive personality she has is extremely common in a field that naturally attracts introverted people. Her most unique trait is that she's trans, which would certainly cause a lot of drama if she found employment in certain geographic locations, but Jeph has largely avoided making any sort of issue out of Claire's trans status and honestly that is probably a box best kept closed at this point.

However, the broader point is true, she could and should have just been hired by a more normal institution. Jeph clearly wants lots of AI in everything going forward, so an AI run institution makes sense. The best scenario would be an AI research firm who research has suddenly expanded and acquired some vast stockpile of physical media of some kind that none of them have any clue how to deal (ex. a huge trove of old photographs or maps) with and they need a human to sort, archive, and digitize them.




> To be honest, Boaty looks quite small, compared to the structure it serves. Do we know how many people live/work in Cubetown?


I had that thought too, especially when you consider that the exterior space will be unusable for much of the year. He clearly can't carry any vehicles at all, either, which is unexpected.

----------


## Traab

Isnt jeph doing this specifically because he wants to make a huge change to the comic? I could have sworn that was the point of all this. So giving her a local library job wouldnt really alter much of anything. It would introduce a new storyline to the standard "world" we have been in for like 15 years now. So he is setting up a background full of colorful characters who will introduce all sorts of shenanigans and interpersonal interactions in a new location while leaving most of the old cast behind. Kind of a soft reboot of the series.

----------


## Wraith

> Isnt jeph doing this specifically because he wants to make a huge change to the comic? I could have sworn that was the point of all this. So giving her a local library job wouldnt really alter much of anything. It would introduce a new storyline to the standard "world" we have been in for like 15 years now. So he is setting up a background full of colorful characters who will introduce all sorts of shenanigans and interpersonal interactions in a new location while leaving most of the old cast behind. Kind of a soft reboot of the series.


I don't think that anyone is complaining about big changes being made to the comic, more just that they're being made in the most bass-ackwards way possible that it's not really entertaining, its just "lolrandom".

Claire is newly graduated with a bachelor of Library Sciences. She's interned in one library ever, hasn't ever been shown to have friends or a network outside of her immediate family and Marten, but has somehow been head-hunted by the mysteriously unnamed Director of a top-secret AI-run floating town and has been offered a carte blanche position in a role that she isn't suited for. None of this makes sense - it's not even wish fulfilment in the most normal sense, because the job that Claire has been offered isn't the sort of job that she was training for so we can't really say its what she 'wants'.

It could turn out that the Director turns out to be Claire's estranged father or something similarly convenient, tying some elements together in hindsight, but in the meantime it's just things that are happening without explanation. The promise of "plot tomorrow" only goes so far.

----------


## Radar

> Can I just say how much I adore the idea of a gathering of idiots being referred to as a "shower"?
> 
> Because I do. A lot.


English language has a lot of established colorful words for a bunch of something specific. While a shower of idiots might not be one of them, it would not be bad to add it to the list.  :Small Smile: 

Also, it reminds me of a specific gag from DBZA.

----------


## halfeye

> English language has a lot of established colorful words for a bunch of something specific. While a shower of idiots might not be one of them, it would not be bad to add it to the list. 
> 
> Also, it reminds me of a specific gag from DBZA.


Whether it's a defined use or not, "shower of idiots" is old.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Isnt jeph doing this specifically because he wants to make a huge change to the comic? I could have sworn that was the point of all this.


Most people would start killing off characters to shake things up a little. Most people don't have both a robot fetish and a long-running webcomic, though. I'm still not convinced this hasn't all been an excuse to make Tim Hortons jokes.

Come to think of it, I wonder whether the comic has more readers in the USA or in Canada, and whether that's influencing anything.

----------


## geoduck

> Most people would start killing off characters to shake things up a little. Most people don't have both a robot fetish and a long-running webcomic, though. I'm still not convinced this hasn't all been an excuse to make Tim Hortons jokes.
> 
> Come to think of it, I wonder whether the comic has more readers in the USA or in Canada, and whether that's influencing anything.


It's probably already been said, but it's because Jeph himself moved to Halifax. And yeah, there are about a thousand better ways he could have moved the comic's action to that city.

I see I wasn't the only one to wonder if it was going to turn out that Claire's father is involved in Cubetown somehow.

Random Trivia of the Day: James Lipton, the guy who hosted The Actor's Studio, also wrote An Exaltation of Larks, which is an exhaustive collection of group names, both historical and ones that Lipton himself made up.

----------


## Vinyadan

I think the easiest way to teleport to Halifax would have been a drunken night out after Claire's master graduation. 

"You wake up on the roadside. The city looks unfamiliar, and people have an odd accent. You can see the gray sea, and a gigantic inflatable yellow duckie looms over the moored fishing vessels and container ships. A suspiciously polite local tells you you are in Halifax."

----------


## Radar

> I think the easiest way to teleport to Halifax would have been a drunken night out after Claire's master graduation. 
> 
> "You wake up on the roadside. The city looks unfamiliar, and people have an odd accent. You can see the gray sea, and a gigantic inflatable yellow duckie looms over the moored fishing vessels and container ship. A suspicious polite local tells you you are in Halifax."


This description made me mentally add something afterwards:  :Small Wink: 
>

----------


## geoduck

> I think the easiest way to teleport to Halifax would have been a drunken night out after Claire's master graduation. 
> 
> "You wake up on the roadside. The city looks unfamiliar, and people have an odd accent. You can see the gray sea, and a gigantic inflatable yellow duckie looms over the moored fishing vessels and container ships. A suspiciously polite local tells you you are in Halifax."


As Radar says, it would be more like- 

You wake up on the roadside. The city looks unfamiliar, and people have an odd accent. You can see the gray sea, and a gigantic inflatable yellow duckie looms over the moored fishing vessels and container ships. 
There is a local here.

>EXAMINE LOCAL

The local looks suspiciously polite.

>LOCAL, WHERE AM I?

"You are in Halifax!"

----------


## Wraith

> English language has a lot of established colorful words for a bunch of something specific. While a shower of idiots might not be one of them, it would not be bad to add it to the list.


When I was a kid, my father would use the phrase "a short, sharp, shower of s**t" as an alliterative way of describing an unforeseen, but brief, series of unpleasant events. You know the type - one day you have everything happen out of nowhere, in the space of an hour, and all of it apparently designed to annoy you?

As I grew older, the phrase evolved several times including into "shower of s**theads" to describe the instigators of said-s**tshower. In polite company, "s**theads" would become "idiots", although we all knew exactly what he was referring to.

So it's not an established collective noun, but it is one with a logical progression, of sorts. Much of (especially British) English language has similarly convoluted roots, and don't even get me started on my local dialect which I have long since trained myself out of using on the internet  :Small Tongue: 

**distant, heckling laughter from Scotland**




> I think the easiest way to teleport to Halifax would have been a drunken night out after Claire's master graduation.


The weird thing is, Jeph alluded to a plotline wherein the QC cast would end up in Canada through entirely organic means - Dora and Tai's bachelor party. They WERE going to spend a weekend in Canada, but they aborted the idea in order to have money to donate to May's chassis fundraiser.

He abandoned a perfectly good and entirely plausible excuse to get his characters to the place he wanted them to go, abandoned it for wacky AI nonsense, and then had to pull a random Faustian/random-AI-nonsense deal out of his butt to set it up again.

With a timeskip in between, for some reason.

----------


## halfeye

> Random Trivia of the Day: James Lipton, the guy who hosted The Actor's Studio, also wrote An Exaltation of Larks, which is an exhaustive collection of group names, both historical and ones that Lipton himself made up.


There can never be an exhaustive collection of group names, exactly because anybody can make one up. Extensive, yes, complete, no.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> The weird thing is, Jeph alluded to a plotline wherein the QC cast would end up in Canada through entirely organic means - Dora and Tai's bachelor party. They WERE going to spend a weekend in Canada, but they aborted the idea in order to have money to donate to May's chassis fundraiser.
> 
> He abandoned a perfectly good and entirely plausible excuse to get his characters to the place he wanted them to go, abandoned it for wacky AI nonsense, and then had to pull a random Faustian/random-AI-nonsense deal out of his butt to set it up again.


And was there a reasonable probability of one of more of them staying there (apart from nailing Pintsize to a tree) afterwards?

The only place it is mentioned (at least from a quick trawl through the comic) is the page you posted. That was hardly alluding to a plotline, just giving a rather nice display of charity within the community.




> With a timeskip in between, for some reason.


How far ahead do you think this comic is plotted? There's 614 comics (and numerous plot changes) since then. That's about two years, 4 months worth of comics.

----------


## Kish

> Isnt jeph doing this specifically because he wants to make a huge change to the comic? I could have sworn that was the point of all this.


Ah, Jeph, I'm sure you were prepared for the usual complaints that you haven't changed the comic to comply with strangers' random-ass complaints about it, but were you prepared for Telephone Game?

----------


## Wraith

> And was there a reasonable probability of one of more of them staying there (apart from nailing Pintsize to a tree) afterwards?


That depends what you mean by 'reasonable' - More or less probable than a random AI CEO of a floating city independently learning Claire's name and head-hunting her based on a reputation that we all know that she doesn't have?  :Small Tongue: 

Besides, who said she had to stay immediately? I was thinking more like, just a vague introduction? Perhaps for example: Claire goes to the bachelorette party, meets someone in a bar and impresses them with her silly puns, and she wakes up the next morning with a business card in her purse and little-to-no memory of where it came from. Boom! She's met the CEO and that's why he likes her! Cue job offer! Come back next week and we'll talk (preferably while sober this time)!




> How far ahead do you think this comic is plotted? There's 614 comics (and numerous plot changes) since then. That's about two years, 4 months worth of comics.


Truthfully? About 30 minutes, give or take. But then I'm caught in the paradox that "the thing the robots are building in Halifax" dates back to 3055, which is 1900+ comics and is ~7 years ahead of time. Clearly _someone_ was going to do _something_ in Canada at some point?

----------


## Vinyadan

For me, the most unexpected callback was when Angus said that his old gilfriend was so mean his roommates burned her effigy, and then she turned out to be Renee.

----------


## Mordokai

Was I the only one to get a "horror" vibe from todays comic?

You know, when the group of teenagers arrives to the cabin in the woods and the ominous music swells, you just know they are in for a bad time? I got that feeling from the Cubetown being shown.

And that was *before* the explosion.

----------


## Mechalich

> Was I the only one to get a "horror" vibe from todays comic?
> 
> You know, when the group of teenagers arrives to the cabin in the woods and the ominous music swells, you just know they are in for a bad time? I got that feeling from the Cubetown being shown.
> 
> And that was *before* the explosion.


Considering that the explosion is powerful enough to shake the entirety of the Cubetown platform, it ought to produce one heck of a wake and put Ol'Boaty (who I swear is smaller than fishing boats I have seen towed on trailers) at severe risk of capsizing, or at least hurling Marten - whose center of gravity is not in an ideal position at the moment - over the side. 

So yeah, I'd agree with the argument that they're already too close.

Edit: Updating this to reflect the newest comic, I'd like to add boats to the list of things Jeph doesn't know anything about an is too lazy to google. Specifically, when Ol'Boaty moors with Cubetown, he's two full stories below the dock level, which means that in order to get up Claire, Marten, and Moray had to climb a ladder to get there - Boaty has insufficient bow space to accommodate a gangplank, a huge design failure in a launch. Speaking as somehow who has climbed those ladders personally - because tugboats have this problem when they moor at commercial docks designed for the ships they are escorting - this is _very dangerous_, especially in the North Atlantic, where ice will form and cling to the rungs for roughly half the year. If the, supposedly very seasick (though he seems to have recovered with astonishing speed), Marten had slipped and fallen he could have sued Cubetown for a fortune.

And sure, this is kind of a ticky-tack thing, but the entire issue could have been avoided by making Boaty a properly-sized ferry rather than a tiny launch.

----------


## Cikomyr2

Oh god, two "entirely new" cast member now.

I do like Armold tho.

----------


## VoxRationis

Someone is clearly just trying to use up extra budget before the end of the fiscal year; I can see no other reason to embark upon such a bizarre experiment.

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## DavidSh

Perhaps the ladder shown in the first panel is just for the dock worker.  There could be a floating dock, not shown there, that the final mooring is to.  Or Cubetown could have a ramp that it lowers down to boats.  Or the dock could have a lock-like structure that raises the water level when closed (I've seen something vaguely like that in areas of high tide range).  Or a cradle is lowered down, and lifts Ol' Boaty to a convenient level.  Tides at Halifax are about 1 to 2 meters though, nothing like the Bay of Fundy.

Or, more likely, Jeph just didn't think about it.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> Someone is clearly just trying to use up extra budget before the end of the fiscal year; I can see no other reason to embark upon such a bizarre experiment.


Give a whole new meaning to "blowing up the budget"

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## VoxRationis

> Give a whole new meaning to "blowing up the budget"


I was actually thinking more of the "independently sentient arm" experiment, which just seems facially silly. Perhaps in a setting that hadn't already established that nerve-to-electronics prosthetics exist, such a scheme might be justified as a way of providing amputees with additional functionality. As it is, however, the reasons why one wouldn't want an appendage to be its own entity outweigh any possible reasons why that would be helpful, and that's ignoring the structural issues with the mismatched limb.

Also, apparently the author is not fond of mixed-use zoning. It's a little difficult to get a proper sense of the scale right off the bat, but Cubetown looks large enough that I could see actual utility in people living next to shops, rather than having to travel to an entirely separate section of the structure for routine commerce (especially since, so far, we haven't seen any sort of transit system at work).

----------


## Vinyadan

Now it feels like Boaty must be some sort of executive transport and Cubetown must otherwise be served by a small fleet of cargo and ferry ships owned by external companies (and so without Cubetown employees ashore).

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## Mechalich

> Now it feels like Boaty must be some sort of executive transport and Cubetown must otherwise be served by a small fleet of cargo and ferry ships owned by external companies (and so without Cubetown employees ashore).


The drawings of Cubetown show a pair of cargo container cranes - which are probably ~50m in height by the way, for a sense of scale - and the only reason to have those is if container ships dock with the facility. Presumably, Cubetown imports most of its food and consumer goods and exports a lot of trash and whatever stuff it produces (whatever goo/membrane combo Moray's made of maybe?). There ought to be regular ferry service too. If nothing else, Cubetown is shown full of parks and would represent a fun tourist destination in the warmer months (NS's economy is already heavily tourism influenced)

It would make sense for Cubetown to have a launch to conduct instream meetings with ships prior to docking with the superstructure in case of heavy seas, special conditions, or to conduct CBSA officials out to inspect vessels prior to docking (assuming Cubetown is allowed to take foreign cargo). Most port facilities have such vessels. Boaty isn't properly configured for that - he needs greater open space in either the bow or stern to allow a gangway connect so launch passengers can board much larger vessels - which is regrettable since it's not certain what his primary purpose would be otherwise since he can probably only carry a dozen passengers and no cargo at all. 

Boaty makes more sense as a research vessel, a small, fast and maneuverable ship that can dart about the bay and chase fish shoals, migratory birds, or whales (google confirms that whale watching is a thing around Halifax, seasonally), who has only been reluctantly repurposed for passenger transport on occasion.

----------


## geoduck

> Edit: Updating this to reflect the newest comic, I'd like to add boats to the list of things Jeph doesn't know anything about an is too lazy to google. Specifically, when Ol'Boaty moors with Cubetown, he's two full stories below the dock level, which means that in order to get up Claire, Marten, and Moray had to climb a ladder to get there - Boaty has insufficient bow space to accommodate a gangplank, a huge design failure in a launch. Speaking as somehow who has climbed those ladders personally - because tugboats have this problem when they moor at commercial docks designed for the ships they are escorting - this is _very dangerous_, especially in the North Atlantic, where ice will form and cling to the rungs for roughly half the year. If the, supposedly very seasick (though he seems to have recovered with astonishing speed), Marten had slipped and fallen he could have sued Cubetown for a fortune.
> 
> And sure, this is kind of a ticky-tack thing, but the entire issue could have been avoided by making Boaty a properly-sized ferry rather than a tiny launch.


Sooo... it turns out Boaty isn't even supposed to be docking there, but got into a pissing match with some harbor official, and is now risking people's lives as you describe! Red flag #12034 waving wildly in Claire's face!

----------


## Wraith

You're overthinking this. Boaty is a lolrandom AI who wanted to be a boat, so they inhabited the first one they could find/afford/that could accommodate an AI pilot.

Whether or not being a boat was useful, appropriate or sensible, was entirely coincidental. That they can ferry a couple of passengers from the mainland at all is nothing short of miraculous - Be grateful they're not an electric pedalo or something.




> Red flag #12034 waving wildly in Claire's face!


I'm particularly enjoying the way that Marten appears to be having a good time, at least. Apart from the comments from Boaty (is it just me, or was the 'real man' comment weirdly out of place for the sort of inclusive tone that QC is going for?), he's cracking jokes and getting on with people whereas Claire seems completely out of her depth. He must be more acclimatised to AI nonsense after years of Pintsize's influence.

I suppose that Marten HAS to be shown to approve of the place, otherwise "Claire gets her dream job and Marten tows along being her without input" makes for a lop-sided story. "Claire gets a job and Marten makes a bunch of new connections" makes for a much smoother transition... Or even some weird tension where Claire decides she DOESN'T want the job, but Marten kind of wants to move anyway?

----------


## Vinyadan

I think that the beauty of Marten as a character is exactly that he is multifaceted. He is very laid back compared to Claire, has no desire for a career, played in a band that never went anywhere, likes jokes, is rather non-judgemental, but he also is a soft straight man in that he is surrounded by drama that he constantly dampens by virtue of not losing his head at the first turn. So he can take weirdity easier than Claire, and, unlike her, he doesn't have a life-changing decision in front of himself.

I wouldn't be against the couple moving to Halifax in spite of Claire not taking the job. I would like some more Marten in the comic, and the two of them being in a new environment could make for interesting pages.

----------


## Gez

> Also, apparently the author is not fond of mixed-use zoning.


Yeah, I noticed that too and it actually struck me as really really weird. Because there's only two ways to design a city:
Design it for pedestrian, and then you need to have mixed-use everywhere, so that people don't actually need to go on a full-day hiking trial just to go buy groceries or get to work or put their kids to schoolDesign it for automobile, and then you can justify very strict zoning separation because every house is like twenty miles away from anywhere the house's residents may want to go

Like, there's a reason _every_ pre-automobile street was designed according to the principle of "shops and workshops at ground levels, housings on the upper stories". People just didn't want to walk for ten hours to commute.

It especially stuck out because I had recently binge-watched a bunch of Youtube vids about urban planning (channels with names like "Strong Town", "City Beautiful", "Not Just Bikes", etc.) but given the twenty-something hipster demographics that is the QC cast, it's even weirder. They're not suburbanites in identical single-family housing units having barbecues with their neighbors on their oversized front lawn; they're city-dwellers who walk everywhere they go and spend their time at coffee shops. Exactly the kind of people who want to just above a hat shop.

----------


## DavidSh

You don't think there are a lot of 19th century residential side streets with row houses, but no shopping?  There is a common pattern of stores on the main streets, with some residences above them, and pure residential side streets.

----------


## VoxRationis

> You don't think there are a lot of 19th century residential side streets with row houses, but no shopping?  There is a common pattern of stores on the main streets, with some residences above them, and pure residential side streets.


Yes, it's not the case that housing above shops is the only way to organize a pedestrian city (housing _behind_ shops on the same lots is another such way), but it's generally the case that if your city isn't going to be organized around people spending their lives in car traffic, it needs to have goods and services in the same neighborhood as residences.

I'm also wondering, based on the comment that the housing in the commercial zone is overpriced, if the employee housing in the residential zone is not provided gratis, which is what I would have expected.

----------


## Wraith

On the one hand, many landlords do divide a single building into two tenancies, one downstairs that can be used as a shop and the upstairs as a residence where foot-traffic isn't easily accessible because... What else can they do with the space? Low-price storage and completely waste the access to water, gas, electricity, etc? It's certainly 'real' and happens everywhere.

On the other, no one WANTS to live above a shop if they can help it. Living on a high street is noisy and polluted, and especially bad if your 'downstairs neighbour' has customers until the early hours of the morning like a bar or takeaway food. People only live in these places because they have to, and a two-room apartment is cheap enough that the sacrifice is worth it.

This leads us to the question; why does Cubetown have such a thing? Cubetown is pre-planned to have separate districts for people to live in, presumably there's enough room for people to live or they would stop inviting more people to come over? Not only that, but Cubetown is (from what we've seen) a couple of kilometers wide which is walking distance for just about everything one can think of, and would have to be because having cars and buses on a floating city would be prohibitively expensive and inconvenient. No one _needs_ to live so close to a hat shop.

Similarly, they're not the product of 19th century exploitative capitalism, so there's no need for buildings to be sublet like this.... Except to cater to a very strange kind of poverty-LARPer who wants the 'authentic' experience of living in a crowded city while also paying extravagant rent and import fees on food, clothes, etc that have to be brought to a floating community.

WHY would anyone pander to such a weird, niche community? The answer is "random AI nonsense" as adorable pastel people pretend to be human beings in a weirdly sterile and cotton wool-swaddled version of real life. Cubetown is a half-way house between the AI's birthing crèche and fending entirely for themselves - they're 'playing' at living in poverty to acclimatise before experiencing the real thing when they move to the mainland. Its weird to think about, but by QC standards it makes a certain kind of sense.

That or Jeph just didn't think about it. He walked down his local high street, saw "people live above stores in apartments" and didn't think any further about it. That also makes a lot of sense and is consistent with the rest of QC.  :Small Tongue:

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## Vinyadan

I think AIs larping humanity might be an answer, without any further motive. I think we have seen something similar in QC in the past, although I can't really tell what it was.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> This leads us to the question; why does Cubetown have such a thing? Cubetown is pre-planned to have separate districts for people to live in, presumably there's enough room for people to live or they would stop inviting more people to come over? Not only that, but Cubetown is (from what we've seen) a couple of kilometers wide which is walking distance for just about everything one can think of, and would have to be because having cars and buses on a floating city would be prohibitively expensive and inconvenient. No one _needs_ to live so close to a hat shop.
> 
> Similarly, they're not the product of 19th century exploitative capitalism, so there's no need for buildings to be sublet like this.... Except to cater to a very strange kind of poverty-LARPer who wants the 'authentic' experience of living in a crowded city while also paying extravagant rent and import fees on food, clothes, etc that have to be brought to a floating community.
> 
> WHY would anyone pander to such a weird, niche community? The answer is "random AI nonsense" as adorable pastel people pretend to be human beings in a weirdly sterile and cotton wool-swaddled version of real life. Cubetown is a half-way house between the AI's birthing crèche and fending entirely for themselves - they're 'playing' at living in poverty to acclimatise before experiencing the real thing when they move to the mainland. Its weird to think about, but by QC standards it makes a certain kind of sense.
> 
> That or Jeph just didn't think about it. He walked down his local high street, saw "people live above stores in apartments" and didn't think any further about it. That also makes a lot of sense and is consistent with the rest of QC.


I've got to give this post some appreciation for delivering both a Doylist and a Watsonian explanation for the housing distribution of a city built by AIs on an oil rig in a daily sitcom webcomic.  :Small Amused:

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## Gnoman

> On the other, no one WANTS to live above a shop if they can help it. Living on a high street is noisy and polluted, and especially bad if your 'downstairs neighbour' has customers until the early hours of the morning like a bar or takeaway food. People only live in these places because they have to, and a two-room apartment is cheap enough that the sacrifice is worth it.


I know from experience that this isn't true. Many people have this attitude, but I've known a number of people who've sought out exactly those sorts of apartments from preference. Some because it gave them a business on the same odd schedule they are (several bar staff I've known happily lived above a bar, because it was quiet in their non-working hours), others because it was a way to get right in the heart of the "fun" district.

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## Wraith

> I think AIs larping humanity might be an answer, without any further motive. I think we have seen something similar in QC in the past, although I can't really tell what it was.


Arthur and Melon? They live in an apartment and their idea of decorating is to draw a box on the wall and write 'art' inside it. Melon goes to work with a paper tie taped to the front of her T-shirt, carrying a briefcase filled with sheets of paper that have "important documents" (sic) written on them?  :Small Tongue: 




> I've got to give this post some appreciation for delivering both a Doylist and a Watsonian explanation for the housing distribution of a city built by AIs on an oil rig in a daily sitcom webcomic.


I could be wrong. It could just be random AI nonsense and I'm assigning meaning to Jeph ham-fistedly slamming his paws on a keyboard out of sheer ignorance. But then I came up with something even more subtlety dystopian about AIs being infantile morons, and frankly, I stand by it  :Small Big Grin: 




> I know from experience that this isn't true. Many people have this attitude, but I've known a number of people who've sought out exactly those sorts of apartments from preference. Some because it gave them a business on the same odd schedule they are (several bar staff I've known happily lived above a bar, because it was quiet in their non-working hours), others because it was a way to get right in the heart of the "fun" district.


Fair enough. My "no one" should rightfully be downgraded to "the great majority of people, probably". Still, I don't think either of those apply to the example given in the comic - a hat shop?  :Small Wink:

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## Keltest

> Fair enough. My "no one" should rightfully be downgraded to "the great majority of people, probably". Still, I don't think either of those apply to the example given in the comic - a hat shop?


I mean, presumably the hat shop owners have to live somewhere.

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## Manga Shoggoth

> Fair enough. My "no one" should rightfully be downgraded to "the great majority of people, probably". Still, I don't think either of those apply to the example given in the comic - a hat shop?


It's quite common where I live - in the nearest main town it's split evenly between offices and accomodation (and some shops have multiple stories above); Closer in to London (where accomodation is even more at a premium) it becomes even more common. The people doing it are a minority, true, but that's more because there's a lot more other housing than "flats above shops".

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## Gez

> Fair enough. My "no one" should rightfully be downgraded to "the great majority of people, probably". Still, I don't think either of those apply to the example given in the comic - a hat shop?


I'd imagine a hat shop is probably not excessively noisy nor open until ungodly hours at night. Bars, pubs, cafÃ©s, restaurants and other such places where people gather to chat with their friends will be noisy throughout their opening hours. Grocery stores, bakeries get a lot of traffic because those are places where people do daily shopping. Toy stores may get excited children screaming.

But a fancy haberdasher? Seems like the kind of commercial building that would be quite on the quieter side. But maybe these places are a lot more fun than they look like?

I personally spent several years living two stories about an auto repair garage. It was fine, since I was generally not at home during the garage's work hours, but even when I stayed inside while they were working, the machinery they used still made less noise than the neighbors anyway.

And especially the neighbors' dogs. Protip to everyone: if you live in an apartment flat, and you spend most of your days away from home because you work or study or hang out with Marten at a coffee shop or whatever it is you do, _do not get a dog_. Dogs are for if you live in the countryside and can actually get your dog to stay with you while you live your daily life. If what you're going to do is let the poor critter wait all day long cooped up all alone in a tiny flat, please, no, don't get a dog. All it'll do is cry all day long and exasperate the neighbors, who will hate you forever and still be angry several years afterwards.

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## Mechalich

I would note that the _very existence_ of a haberdashery implies that either an awful lot of people live in Cubetown, or it attracts a lot of tourists. Hats are a luxury item that people don't purchase very often - it would be unlikely that any community purchases even 1 hat per person per year - and while the mark up on fancy hats is considerable, it still requires a huge customer base to sustain enough sales to maintain viability as a business. Similarly, the existence of an on-site school also implies a minimum number of permanent residents in the range of 1000+, otherwise there simply wouldn't be enough kids to bother.

None of these examples matches with the sort of extremely slapdash operation in which the director of HR comes out to meet a prospective hire personally and the operators have no idea they even need an information science department.

Overall, it's a scale failure across the board. It's not surprising, Sci-Fi Writers have no Sense of Scale, but it is frustrating, especially since QC is set in something close enough to the real world that actual, real numbers, which can be easily googled (ex. the height of a container crane, which I looked up to try and figure out scale for Cubetown based on the drawings) are available as opposed to entirely fictional constructs.

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## Eldan

I used to live in what was basically a semi-renovated attic above an antique store as a student for a while, and that was one of the nicest places I've ever lived. The shop owners were lovely people, too.

----------


## Wraith

> "I don't want to run away screaming. Yet."


WHY NOT!?! In God's good and holy name, after everything you have seen so far including a ferry wishing death upon your boyfriend and a not-insignificant part of the city exploding, give us one reason WHY NOT!?! _What is wrong with you, you crazy, mad fool!?_




> I would note that the _very existence_ of a haberdashery implies that either an awful lot of people live in Cubetown, or it attracts a lot of tourists. Hats are a luxury item that people don't purchase very often - it would be unlikely that any community purchases even 1 hat per person per year - and while the mark up on fancy hats is considerable, it still requires a huge customer base to sustain enough sales to maintain viability as a business.


A haberdasher is a sewing and dressmaking shop - the word for a hat maker/shop is a milliner  :Small Smile: 

Yes, I know that hats are at least partially sewn; go argue with the 17th century nerd who invented the dictionary if you don't like it.




> I used to live in what was basically a semi-renovated attic above an antique store as a student for a while, and that was one of the nicest places I've ever lived. The shop owners were lovely people, too.


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't or shouldn't happen and that above-shop apartments aren't a good place to live. My point was meant to be more along the lines of the practicality of such a thing in a futuristic, AI-designed city.

I was thinking more like, did you *want* - as in, actively seek out the opportunity - to live above a shop on a high street, or did you *want* to live in small, cheap accommodation that was reasonably close to local amenities? I think it was probably the latter, but you had the good fortune to have a positive experience with a combination of the two.

We in the real world combine the two because of archaic city planning and capitalistic maximazing of space-to-profit margins, but Cubetown was built within the last ~5 years, for an exclusive community of mostly AIs whose only concerns are specifically what they WANT because they have so few NEEDS. If they wanted small, accessible housing then they could just have built some instead of the potential inconvenience of combined store/apartments buildings, which implies that either they're emulating human communities and don't know why (see also, random AI nonsense) or they did it deliberately because they WANT to live specifically above shops for... reasons?

Does that make more sense in what I was thinking? Either Cubetown has to be completely unplanned and random, or someone designed it that way for a reason... And it's _probably_ not the former, given that it hasn't sunk into the Atlantic and the denizens haven't starved to death yet.  :Small Tongue: 

And if that - or something like it - is the case, I just wish Jeph would build his world a little and maybe explain it, because its way more interesting than "It just does".

----------


## Willie the Duck

> A haberdasher is a sewing and dressmaking shop - the word for a hat maker/shop is a milliner 
> Yes, I know that hats are at least partially sewn; go argue with the 17th century nerd who invented the dictionary if you don't like it.


_'You're using this word wrong, if you have a problem with it, take it up with the dictionary.'_ is kind of one of those ur-examples of nerd-pedant toxicity on the internet (see: "ackshually"). This really the person you want to present to the rest of us?




> Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't or shouldn't happen and that above-shop apartments aren't a good place to live. My point was meant to be more along the lines of the practicality of such a thing in a futuristic, AI-designed city.
> 
> I was thinking more like, did you *want* - as in, actively seek out the opportunity - to live above a shop on a high street, or did you *want* to live in small, cheap accommodation that was reasonably close to local amenities? I think it was probably the latter, but you had the good fortune to have a positive experience with a combination of the two.
> 
> We in the real world combine the two because of archaic city planning and capitalistic maximazing of space-to-profit margins, but Cubetown was built within the last ~5 years, for an exclusive community of mostly AIs whose only concerns are specifically what they WANT because they have so few NEEDS. If they wanted small, accessible housing then they could just have built some instead of the potential inconvenience of combined store/apartments buildings, which implies that either they're emulating human communities and don't know why (see also, random AI nonsense) or they did it deliberately because they WANT to live specifically above shops for... reasons?


IRL planned cities often still have things like this. Mixed-use (commercial-residential) zoning might be seen as having some kind of intrinsic value. Perhaps the intended use is people who work in said shops, it just doesn't always work out that way; or maybe 'that neighborhood' where the hip kids sometimes seek out apartments where things are happening as opposed to where there are easy access grocery stores and similar is seen as some form of fulfilled need (in my current city, there is definitely such a neighborhood, and it is actively sought out by a certain demographic).

Either way, I think the 'why' for the robots is that they are actively seeking to replicate the human experience. Certainly the overall dominance of upright biped forms seems to indicate that they are looking for a humanesque experience. Why they want that isn't really clear (no Noonien Soong installing an inherent desire or the like), but seems like as good a motivation for an artificial life form as any.

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## Traab

A hat shop could actually be very busy in cubetown. this is a place for experimenting and trying new things. Imagine how many hats the average AI here goes through just trying the different styles, or replacing from random hijinks, and the hat maker himself could be having a ton of fun designing new and interesting hat shapes for customers to buy. Or creating custom made hats for the ai parrot living on the shoulder of a robo pirate body. 

Also, guys, I get it, its fun to just snark like crazy on every possible way that cubetown doesnt make sense from a realism standpoint but for crying out loud, writing an essay on why a town the size and location of cubeville wouldnt be able to keep a hat store in business is digging way too deeply into things. At no point has jeph tried to say he designed a perfect setting where everything makes sense and fits rationally in every way. Its a crazy ai research area full of strange people doing strange things, would it kill you to just roll with it? Do you really need to question its bus service schedules and the gauges of the wiring going into providing the whole place power?

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## Vinyadan

The funny part about milliner is that it means "dude from Milan". Job names occasionally come from cities renowned for their products, although I can't think of any other example in English right now.

----------


## tyckspoon

> A hat shop could actually be very busy in cubetown. this is a place for experimenting and trying new things. Imagine how many hats the average AI here goes through just trying the different styles, or replacing from random hijinks, and the hat maker himself could be having a ton of fun designing new and interesting hat shapes for customers to buy. Or creating custom made hats for the ai parrot living on the shoulder of a robo pirate body.


If we're going to try to figure out how a specialty shop could operate in Cubetown, it's worth remembering that Cubetown isn't -that- isolated; it's close enough to Halifax to generally be part of Halifax's economic region, which is certainly large enough to support a number of niche businesses. Especially one where a lot of its normal operation could be coming from special orders/mail order/online ordering and not very dependent on walk-in customers.


(..also possible it's run by an AI who has very low living costs and may be getting a significantly below-market rate on the store space from Cubetown and so doesn't actually need much in the way of business for the store to be financially viable.)

----------


## Wraith

> _'You're using this word wrong, if you have a problem with it, take it up with the dictionary.'_ is kind of one of those ur-examples of nerd-pedant toxicity on the internet (see: "ackshually"). This really the person you want to present to the rest of us?


You know, it honestly didn't occur to me that it wouldn't be read as a joke - Who seriously and unironically refers to a 1700's literary critic as a nerd?

I appreciate the feedback. The page started with someone expressing genuine amusement at interesting words and I thought I was continuing the trend, but in future I will try to make it more clear that it was intended to be facetious.




> At no point has jeph tried to say he designed a perfect setting where everything makes sense and fits rationally in every way. Its a crazy ai research area full of strange people doing strange things, would it kill you to just roll with it? Do you really need to question its bus service schedules and the gauges of the wiring going into providing the whole place power?


I find it amusing, and if I'm not even remotely taking it seriously (I theoried a city of dystopian AI indoctrination based on the prevalence of a single hat shop) I highly encourage you not to either  :Small Smile: 




> If we're going to try to figure out how a specialty shop could operate in Cubetown, it's worth remembering that Cubetown isn't -that- isolated; it's close enough to Halifax to generally be part of Halifax's economic region, which is certainly large enough to support a number of niche businesses. Especially one where a lot of its normal operation could be coming from special orders/mail order/online ordering and not very dependent on walk-in customers.


Fun fact; not a single person, AI or otherwise, living in or otherwise connected to Cubetown, has ever been shown wearing a hat. Not one.  :Small Tongue:

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## Eldan

> I was thinking more like, did you *want* - as in, actively seek out the opportunity - to live above a shop on a high street, or did you *want* to live in small, cheap accommodation that was reasonably close to local amenities? I think it was probably the latter, but you had the good fortune to have a positive experience with a combination of the two.


Uh, well, I'm very much in favour of intensified urbanisation, i.e. putting everything closer together. And if you don't put appartments above small businesses, there's probably going to be a lot of empty space. So yes, I'm _very much_ in favour of ground floor shops, upper floor appartment blocks.

I'd call that anything but archaic, if anything, we need more of that. Much more.

----------


## BRC

Like, even with the cartoonish levels of funding, square footage of buildable ground is limited. One-story buildings in such a place are a massive waste of potential space. 

But, considering the nature of the place, I guess if nobody wanted to live above a store, they wouldn't need to. AI recharging cubicles for those AI who don't need want more than a closet and a locker could be up there, or storage.

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## Rodin

> Also, guys, I get it, its fun to just snark like crazy on every possible way that cubetown doesnt make sense from a realism standpoint but for crying out loud, writing an essay on why a town the size and location of cubeville wouldnt be able to keep a hat store in business is digging way too deeply into things. At no point has jeph tried to say he designed a perfect setting where everything makes sense and fits rationally in every way. Its a crazy ai research area full of strange people doing strange things, would it kill you to just roll with it? Do you really need to question its bus service schedules and the gauges of the wiring going into providing the whole place power?


The snark in this thread is a lot more fun than the actual comic at the moment.  The comic is basically doing a rapid fire "here is funny character who will be a main cast member shortly, now here's a main location in this place that the comic will be moving to".  That leaves not much to talk about other than Marten's commentary (which is hilarious) and the general nonsensical nature of the setting.  

What I'm taking away from the setting thus far is "What if somebody built Northampton on a super cool floating island fully of wacky AIs?"  All it needs is a vacant coffee shop and a short storyline about how Faye and Bubbles would get a lot more business and Jeph pulls the entire main cast over to Cubetown where he can draw nothing but wacky AIs.

----------


## BRC

My new theory is that Jeph ran out of ways to draw background/bit characters that were easy to come up with, couldn't be mistaken for any of the main cast, and were not so unique as to especially stand out. The increasing shift to AI is just to expand the range of physical traits he can give bit characters.

----------


## Mechalich

> Also, guys, I get it, its fun to just snark like crazy on every possible way that cubetown doesnt make sense from a realism standpoint but for crying out loud, writing an essay on why a town the size and location of cubeville wouldnt be able to keep a hat store in business is digging way too deeply into things. At no point has jeph tried to say he designed a perfect setting where everything makes sense and fits rationally in every way. Its a crazy ai research area full of strange people doing strange things, would it kill you to just roll with it? Do you really need to question its bus service schedules and the gauges of the wiring going into providing the whole place power?


Not realism, verisimilitude (though these are admittedly similar since QC is set in a world that is very much like our own). And it matters a great deal because this plot arc is basically a giant, self-imposed verisimilitude test. Specifically: is Cubetown believable enough that Claire would legitimately make the in-character choice to move there. Right now, the comic is failing that test, and doing so _embarrassingly badly_.

Additionally, this arc highlights how Jeph appears to have completely lost sight of the balance between 'wacky comic relief' moments and situations that with sufficient support to carry the storyline and attendant character drama. Cubetown, as presented so far, is a suitable setting for a screwball animated comedy (Moray, specifically, feels like she belongs in some sort of slapstick Looney Tunes-style creation) not a character-based light dramedy about young adults. 

If Jeph wants to do a comedy called Cubetown in which AIs juggle each other's heads, get into arguments with their arms, and blow up half their city every day, that's fine, he should absolutely do that. What he shouldn't do is try to graft that into Questionable Content, because the only possible result is a monstrous chimera. 

Now, I suspect that the driving force behind all of this is money. Jeph is beholden to his patreon followers - he has enough of them to qualify as rich, but not enough, and not for long enough (yet), to retire in splendor - which means he essentially cannot conclude QC without massively tanking his income. Therefore, even if he doesn't want to do QC anymore and just wants to do a wacky-AI comic - something that seems highly probable - he cannot just do that. He's trapped extending one creation as long as possible.

----------


## VoxRationis

Why on Earth would security personnel sweep their own guest room for bugs? Surely, any bugs there would be the ones they put in (though I don't know why they would bother in any case).

----------


## theangelJean

New comic.

The important question: does Cubetown have bugs?

----------


## Eldan

> Why on Earth would security personnel sweep their own guest room for bugs? Surely, any bugs there would be the ones they put in (though I don't know why they would bother in any case).


And if they have to sweep for bugs, can't they get thst done before guests arrive?

----------


## Johanny

About the hat shop, I have another possibility to consider:
Part time shop: opened once a week or irregularily. It could be that the owner has enough money not to care about needing to open it more, or that they have another work. I have both things in my town, a (surprisingly competent) guitar repair shop, and a small bar where the owner is a factory worker most of his time.
That could be a feature of cubetown that occupations are only part time, that the work load is less than in other systems.
That would also explain the comfort of living upon a shop that isn't used most of the time.
From experience, beside bars and occasional events like fairs and all, living upon shops isn't that noisy. Wouldn't one of these bars not have been a nazi biker's hideout, I would have mentioned living near a primary school or a food bank being noisier - but there aren't real social services nor children in QC (Roko's job as a social worker is much more related to union services, I'd say).

So it's not really about living directly above something, but in the vicinity (as Beethoven claimed Paris to be unfit for him bc there wasn't any street without a smith hammering something).

----------


## VoxRationis

It's also possible that the hat shop never really existed, but was just an example of Moray picking a random object as the product of a small shop without examining the economic implications of such a shop.

----------


## theNater

> Why on Earth would security personnel sweep their own guest room for bugs? Surely, any bugs there would be the ones they put in (though I don't know why they would bother in any case).


You gotta sweep after each time anybody you don't 100% trust may have been in the room.  This includes prior guests, cleaning and maintainence staff you haven't done full security checks on, and any ninjas who snuck in while the room was unused.  So best practice is to sweep just before anybody moves in, to be safe.




> And if they have to sweep for bugs, can't they get thst done before guests arrive?


Ideally, yes, but you have to wait until the crew that shampoos the carpets has been through; if they finish late, you start late.  (There are various ways to ensure a room will be ready when a guest arrives, but they require planning and organization.)

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> Why on Earth would security personnel sweep their own guest room for bugs? Surely, any bugs there would be the ones they put in (though I don't know why they would bother in any case).


Unless the bugs were experimental self-replicating ones that got free.




> The important question: does Cubetown have bugs?


You are _never_ more than 6 feet from a bug...




> About the hat shop, I have another possibility to consider:
> Part time shop: opened once a week or irregularily. It could be that the owner has enough money not to care about needing to open it more, or that they have another work. I have both things in my town, a (surprisingly competent) guitar repair shop, and a small bar where the owner is a factory worker most of his time.


Ah. memories... Slightly off the subject - when I was living in Bradford we a fish and chips shop at the end of our street, which literally _only_ sold fish and chips (and I'm not sure if they even gave much of a choice on the fish). It was open for about one or two hours a day during lunchtime, was closed at weekends, and was by far the best fish and chips in the entire area.

Oh, and to keep Wraith happy, it was run out of a bungalow.

----------


## Wraith

Ironically, the suite *is* bugged - by Yay, who has demonstrated that they can eavesdrop as and when they please so the security team's job is pretty useless even aside their neuroses.




> And if they have to sweep for bugs, can't they get that done before guests arrive?


You're expecting _MORAY_ to keep to a pre-determined schedule, to say nothing of every other random idiot AI in the world...?




> Oh, and to keep Wraith happy, it was run out of a bungalow.


The "award-winning fish & chip shop with random opening times" near me was in the ground floor of a 3-story former-council terrace. Which at least makes sense, because the owner lived upstairs and it was too good a-location in a side-street beside the middle of town to give up for business or residence. I'm not AGAINST the idea when it makes sense!  :Small Tongue: 

But then they put a UKIP sticker in their window. I don't go there any more.

----------


## Vinyadan

> You gotta sweep after each time anybody you don't 100% trust may have been in the room.  This includes prior guests, cleaning and maintainence staff you haven't done full security checks on, and any ninjas who snuck in while the room was unused.  So best practice is to sweep just before anybody moves in, to be safe.


Korea has a big problem with hotel or toilet taping of this sort. People enter hotels as guests, place hidden cameras, and leave, to then make money streaming or posting videos of the next guests, or blackmailing them.

----------


## Rodin

> The "award-winning fish & chip shop with random opening times" near me was in the ground floor of a 3-story former-council terrace. Which at least makes sense, because the owner lived upstairs and it was too good a-location in a side-street beside the middle of town to give up for business or residence. I'm not AGAINST the idea when it makes sense! 
> 
> But then they put a UKIP sticker in their window. I don't go there any more.


Small town English shops are weird.  I used to go to a pizza joint located above a pharmacy accessible only via a side door in an alley.  Theres a craft distillery on the ground floor of the old town hall (old being 1820), and both the dentist and a local pub take up what used to be residential row housing.

There are also residences above some of the shops - when I moved here the apartment above the fish and chip shop was available.  Presumably now lived in by someone with no nose.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> A haberdasher is a sewing and dressmaking shop - the word for a hat maker/shop is a milliner 
> 
> Yes, I know that hats are at least partially sewn; go argue with the 17th century nerd who invented the dictionary if you don't like it.


I'll just leave this here...



> *Did you know?*
> 
> At various times throughout its history, the term haberdasher has referred to a dealer of hats or caps, a seller of notions (sewing supplies, such as needles and thimbles), and apparently (perhaps somewhat coyly) to a person who sells liquor. Nowadays, with hats not being as fashionable as they once were, the word mostly is applied generally as a clothing outfitter for men, with haberdashery referring to the establishment or the goods sold there. Haberdasher derives via Middle English from hapertas, an Anglo-French word for a kind of cloth, as does the obsolete noun haberdash, which once meant petty merchandise or small wares.
> source

----------


## DavidSh

> Unless the bugs were experimental self-replicating ones that got free.


Either that, or the bugs are being placed by agents of Spheretown (off the coast of Vancouver) or Pyramidtown (off Iqaluit).

----------


## Delicious Taffy

All this hat talk is going over my head a little bit. What I'm curious about is which appliances are alive in this apartment. That seems like a thing Claire and Marten are gonna be dealing with, unless they spend as little screen-time in the apartment as possible. My money's on the hair dryer and microwave.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> All this hat talk is going over my head a little bit. What I'm curious about is which appliances are alive in this apartment. That seems like a thing Claire and Marten are gonna be dealing with, unless they spend as little screen-time in the apartment as possible. My money's on the hair dryer and microwave.


Not the toaster and the light switches?

----------


## Rodin

> Not the toaster and the light switches?


If God is infiniteand the universe is also infinite.would you like a toasted tea cake?

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Not realism, verisimilitude (though these are admittedly similar since QC is set in a world that is very much like our own). And it matters a great deal because this plot arc is basically a giant, self-imposed verisimilitude test. Specifically: is Cubetown believable enough that Claire would legitimately make the in-character choice to move there. Right now, the comic is failing that test, and doing so _embarrassingly badly_.
> 
> Additionally, this arc highlights how Jeph appears to have completely lost sight of the balance between 'wacky comic relief' moments and situations that with sufficient support to carry the storyline and attendant character drama. Cubetown, as presented so far, is a suitable setting for a screwball animated comedy (Moray, specifically, feels like she belongs in some sort of slapstick Looney Tunes-style creation) not a character-based light dramedy about young adults.


I'm viewing this less like Looney Tunes and closer to something like Mary Poppins -- a surreal world that ostensibly looks like our own, but unflinchingly includes events and scenery that would not make sense in a real world (even before the actual magic). Realistically, Admiral Boom and Mr. Binnacle couldn't fire off a wall-shaking, china-threatening cannon twice a day and the neighborhood actually work (if nothing else, people would have moved their china and bolted the furniture in place). 




> If Jeph wants to do a comedy called Cubetown in which AIs juggle each other's heads, get into arguments with their arms, and blow up half their city every day, that's fine, he should absolutely do that. What he shouldn't do is try to graft that into Questionable Content, because the only possible result is a monstrous chimera. 
> 
> Now, I suspect that the driving force behind all of this is money. Jeph is beholden to his patreon followers - he has enough of them to qualify as rich, but not enough, and not for long enough (yet), to retire in splendor - which means he essentially cannot conclude QC without massively tanking his income. Therefore, even if he doesn't want to do QC anymore and just wants to do a wacky-AI comic - something that seems highly probable - he cannot just do that. He's trapped extending one creation as long as possible.


I think that if he capped QC off in a satisfying way, told people he was starting a new project in 2-3 months, and made _Cubeville_ the standalone webcomic (possibly with cameos and callbacks), that most people would follow him to the new thing. It has worked for David Willis, Shaenon Garrity, Brad Guigar, and probably a few others. I suspect Howard Taylor's next project will also succeed with a high degree of fan retention, and he ended Schlock Mercenary on a low point and has taken a year or more off. I honestly suspect that Jeph thinks this transition is working -- he's just slowly transitioning the cast, universe, and tone without changing the comic name.

----------


## BRC

> I'm viewing this less like Looney Tunes and closer to something like Mary Poppins -- a surreal world that ostensibly looks like our own, but unflinchingly includes events and scenery that would not make sense in a real world (even before the actual magic). Realistically, Admiral Boom and Mr. Binnacle couldn't fire off a wall-shaking, china-threatening cannon twice a day and the neighborhood actually work (if nothing else, people would have moved their china and bolted the furniture in place). 
> 
> 
> I think that if he capped QC off in a satisfying way, told people he was starting a new project in 2-3 months, and made _Cubeville_ the standalone webcomic (possibly with cameos and callbacks), that most people would follow him to the new thing. It has worked for David Willis, Shaenon Garrity, Brad Guigar, and probably a few others. I suspect Howard Taylor's next project will also succeed with a high degree of fan retention, and he ended Schlock Mercenary on a low point and has taken a year or more off. I honestly suspect that Jeph thinks this transition is working -- he's just slowly transitioning the cast, universe, and tone without changing the comic name.


Admittedly, I feel like the meandering nature of QC is such that his audience is more likely to accept such a transition 


Like, what IS questionable Content about? For it's most consistent period I'd say it's primarily a gag-a-day comic about Coffee of Doom baristas bantering, occasionally going into slice-of-life drama about one or more characters, but it hasn't been that way for a long time. It's been a drama about Bubbles dealing with her lost memories, a sci-fi exploring Jeph's takes on AI, a farce comic about Melon, a workplace sitcom about Vtubers, ect ect ect.

Like, he's being more intentional about it here, but if anybody was reading Questionable Content for anything beyond Jeph's sense of humor and a consistent update schedule, they would have left long ago.

----------


## halfeye

> ect


etc., short for et cetera, where et means "and" and cetera means "the rest".  :Small Smile:

----------


## Yuki Akuma

> etc., short for et cetera, where et means "and" and cetera means "the rest".


It's short for _et cetera_, clearly.  :Small Wink:

----------


## BRC

I don't know how I could have made it more clear that I was using the commonly used acronym for Each Comic's Topic.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

It's a surprisingly important distinction: etc = et cetera, ect = electroconvulsive therapy. You don't want to get them the wrong way round...

Yes, I know ect is lower case. It's only a small shock.

----------


## Mechalich

> Like, what IS questionable Content about? For it's most consistent period I'd say it's primarily a gag-a-day comic about Coffee of Doom baristas bantering, occasionally going into slice-of-life drama about one or more characters, but it hasn't been that way for a long time. It's been a drama about Bubbles dealing with her lost memories, a sci-fi exploring Jeph's takes on AI, a farce comic about Melon, a workplace sitcom about Vtubers, ect ect ect.


QC was originally about the experience of being a college-educated, underemployed millennia in the 2000s, and it stayed that way for a long time, running through arc after arc about characters finding their way off the financial edge to some form of stability but not, usually, actual prosperity. This was the experience of most of the 'deprecated characters' featured on the cast page but also major characters such as Dale, for whom becoming a barista was a significant _step up_, Brun, and others. There are still strong elements of this, including nominally the current arc which is actually about Claire's struggle to find a job where she uses the degree she worked so hard to get, it's just buried so deep under 'aren't those AIs just the weirdest?' as to be lost almost completely. 

Now, QC is also a deeply personal comic and is in many ways about the life of Jeph Jacques - Marten is a blatant self-insert character - in the fictional version of our world he wishes he lived in as opposed to the real one (this helps explain the absence of things like Covid and certain political events from the story). A great deal of the comic's change can be attributed to the author going from an underemployed twenty-something to a successful thirty-something, and overcoming several bad personal struggles in the process (this is most notable via the change in the comic's approach to alcohol) with the corresponding drop in natural conflict as a result.

----------


## Radar

> If God is infiniteand the universe is also infinite.would you like a toasted tea cake?


Regardless of those infinities, yes - you always say yes to a cake.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Wraith

> If God is infiniteand the universe is also infinite.would you like a toasted tea cake?


_Excellent_ reference there, sir.




> I don't know how I could have made it more clear that I was using the commonly used acronym for Each Comic's Topic.


Oh my god, I LOVE Electric Circus Tearooms! Did you ever see them live? I did once, just before their second album went mainstream and after that they kind of lost what made them interesting.

This QC-style punchline was brought to you from 2011, we hope you enjoyed it.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Hehe. Claire hasn't even sat down yet and she's already _had it_ with these goons. I love it. I also love that her and Marten are pretty much openly ****-talking everyone. It's refreshingly mean.

Little weird that the author commentary says she's "more unreasonably angry than [he] intended", though. I think she's been remarkably patient with this entire situation, if anything.

----------


## Mechalich

> Hehe. Claire hasn't even sat down yet and she's already _had it_ with these goons. I love it. I also love that her and Marten are pretty much openly ****-talking everyone. It's refreshingly mean.
> 
> Little weird that the author commentary says she's "more unreasonably angry than [he] intended", though. I think she's been remarkably patient with this entire situation, if anything.


Indeed. Evan, notably, is _armed_ (it's on her left hip, visible in comic 4937, with a taser-like device on the right hip), and that's past the point at which incompetence stops being funny and starts being terrifying.

Really, as embarrassing as Cubetown is to Halifax and Canada as a whole, one wonders just how much money they paid out simply to be allowed to exist.

Edit: also, 'lightless, crushing ocean depths?' they're in the bay off of Halifax, it's maybe 50 meters deep at most (that reference took <30 seconds to find).

----------


## Wraith

I like the irony that the final straw that made Claire lose her temper was the one AI in the city who was actually doing their job as its supposed to be done.  :Small Tongue: 

Okay, they have a silly name and they were caught unexpectedly in the middle of their scan, but "we're a highly advanced research facility where everyone has wifi in their brain and cameras built into their fingernails, so we must routinely sweep for undocumented listening devices" does not sound at all unreasonable.

They even had the good grace to be slightly embarrassed at having to admit that there are people out there who would try to spy on their _top secret research into cybernetics, artificial intelligence_ and who-knows-what-else. It's not like they tried to hide it to save face, or got caught in a lie.

Let's be honest; Claire should have gotten upset and walked away LONG before this point, but poor Evan is doing her best! She even put pants on, what more could they want!?  :Small Wink:

----------


## Radar

> I like the irony that the final straw that made Claire lose her temper was the one AI in the city who was actually doing their job as its supposed to be done. 
> 
> Okay, they have a silly name and they were caught unexpectedly in the middle of their scan, but "we're a highly advanced research facility where everyone has wifi in their brain and cameras built into their fingernails, so we must routinely sweep for undocumented listening devices" does not sound at all unreasonable.
> 
> They even had the good grace to be slightly embarrassed at having to admit that there are people out there who would try to spy on their _top secret research into cybernetics, artificial intelligence_ and who-knows-what-else. It's not like they tried to hide it to save face, or got caught in a lie.
> 
> Let's be honest; Claire should have gotten upset and walked away LONG before this point, but poor Evan is doing her best! She even put pants on, what more could they want!?


Indeed she should have walked away IMO after witnessing the supposedly regular island-shaking explosion at the latest. That being said, since Evan was hiding instead of directly introducing themselves, this latest incident was most likely perceived as a breach of privacy, which is probably a more personal problem than general chaos in Cubetown. That, and it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

----------


## BRC

So here's the thing about this whole situation, I feel like the problem is less that Evan was sweeping the room for bugs, and more that Evan was doing it by sneaking around. 

Like, if they walked into the rooms, and Evan was there checking under couch cushions, introduced themselves politely, and said that they were sweeping the room for bugs/generally tidying up, everything would have been fine. Evan is doing their job, and also introducing new visitors to the security chief is probably not a bad idea, if only so Evan can give them the brochure on emergency procedures (Here are the fire extinguishers, here are the lifeboats, ect), and heck, it's not a violation of privacy to search a place BEFORE somebody has even arrived. 

The issue is that Evan decided to Tom Clancy this and sneak around instead of just saying "I'm Evan, I am doing my job right now, welcome to Cubetown"

----------


## Traab

Yep, a simple, "Oh hi there! You got here early. My name is blah blah, and im doing the customary security sweep before a new resident stays here. Sorry for the inconvenience." Like was said, this is a high level research facility, not just a chaos factory, so industrial espionage is the sort of thing that can happen and any guest could leave behind recording devices in an attempt to gain info. I think that would have stunned them more just because its such a rational thing to do.

----------


## Vinyadan

I think the page offers an interesting question. Would living in an apartment owned by the employer mean loss of privacy by default? It could be classic spying - like surveillance to make sure you aren't stealing from or otherwise damaging the company - but it could also be data collection, for example by taking a look at your Internet usage. A mere security camera on the stairs would be enough to know if you get visits, and how long visits last, and how much time you spend outside.

About Claire, I think she is being reasonably angry in a comic mostly occupied by unreasonable people and people pretty high on the pushover scale, which is why she can feel like the odd cranky one.

Also, yes, there were very good reasons for a sweep. The Korean problem I mentioned earlier, for example. The robot's inability to mention them suggests he should be a peon, not a chief. Either that, or someone above him is cosplaying a manager and has no idea about security, and gave the order because that's what humans occasionally do, according to data collected from freely available fanfiction.

----------


## Rodin

> Yep, a simple, "Oh hi there! You got here early. My name is blah blah, and im doing the customary security sweep before a new resident stays here. Sorry for the inconvenience." Like was said, this is a high level research facility, not just a chaos factory, so industrial espionage is the sort of thing that can happen and any guest could leave behind recording devices in an attempt to gain info. I think that would have stunned them more just because its such a rational thing to do.


There's a line between "quirky/wacky but believable" and "how do these people tie their shoelaces?", and Jeph seems to have completely lost sight of where that line is.

Take Raven for example.  Raven once tried to break into CoD because she forgot her keys and got stuck in the air vent.  That's believably wacky - I've seen news stories of people doing that in the real world.  She's also shown to be more worldly than the other ladies and is a competent barista and good at interior design.  And that's _before_ Jeph randomly made her a rocket scientist.

Now we're introduced to a security officer that's scared of her own shadow, so nervous she panics about being in a place she's authorized to be, and then apparently lies about the reason (latest comic seems to indicate she wanted to make the place tidy) when _both_ reasons are totally legitimate.

That's the sort of introduction that makes me want a full page spread so I can check her shoelaces.

I get that he wants to try new stuff - I'm one of the ones who's been posting for years that he should do just that.  But he's seriously driving me away at this point because the new characters go beyond me not caring about them and into actively disliking them.  I'll hate giving up QC - after I stopped reading Sluggy Freelance it became my only daily comic.  But if this Cubetown move becomes permanent I think that might be the final straw.  I haven't liked a single new person from this storyline, and it moves the location away from the cast members I _do_ like.

----------


## Radar

> Also, yes, there were very good reasons for a sweep. The Korean problem I mentioned earlier, for example. The robot's inability to mention them suggests he should be a peon, not a chief. Either that, or someone above him is cosplaying a manager and has no idea about security, and gave the order because that's what humans occasionally do, according to data collected from freely available fanfiction.


So... Galaxy Quest scenario but based on meme culture and all the LOLrandom internet behavior? This would actually explain so much about Cubetown. In fact, this is my head-canon now that is further backed up by the fact that many AI spend their lives (or at least big parts thereof) directly in the virtual world. If it turns out they pay people in doge coins the picture would be complete.

----------


## BRC

I feel like this whole situation was written to set up Claire getting angry and being offered a meeting with The Director, but Jeph couldn't think of a good reason why she would get angry so came up with this weird "Security officer was sneaking around" situation that doesn't make a lot of sense, either as a thing to happen or a reason for Claire to get upset.

Like, I can't even tell what Claire is mad about here? Does she think Evan was planting bugs because somebody brought up the idea of Bugs and Evan would be the best person to do that? That makes no sense. It's like accusing the bank manager of plotting a robbery because they have the codes to the safe. 

Does she think Evan is incompetent? Evan's been awkward, but assuming "Sweep the apartment for bugs" is part of their check-in procedure, they've maybe waited a little too long to wait? 



Let me re-write this whole sequence to make more sense.

Martin and Claire are settling in to the apartment before Claire's first meeting when they catch Evan, who had been hiding in the closet, trying to sneak out. 

Evan had been checking for bugs/straightening up the apartment when Martin and Claire arrived. Caught off guard and afraid of making a bad first impression, they panicked and hid in the closet, then tried to sneak out. 


Panicking and hiding in the closet is wacky and goofy, but not outside the realm of possibility. 

Claire is upset that Evan was eavesdropping on them when they were supposed to be alone, she now has an actual reason to be upset.

----------


## tyckspoon

> I feel like this whole situation was written to set up Claire getting angry and being offered a meeting with The Director, but Jeph couldn't think of a good reason why she would get angry so came up with this weird "Security officer was sneaking around" situation that doesn't make a lot of sense, either as a thing to happen or a reason for Claire to get upset.


My guess is we're supposed to perceive Claire as being increasingly concerned/bothered by the fact that NOBODY in any position of responsibility at Cubetown appears to be.. actually responsible. Plus probably some concern about privacy invasion, but we don't have any reason to believe that's a particular worry or trigger for Claire previously to go 'oh, yes, it makes sense this would be the particular breaking point for Claire.' But because the comic is on a speed-dating tour of Wacky AIs none of the issues are being given any time to land or for Claire to have reactions (the 'daily afternoon explosion', for example, probably should have had more time for Claire to think about, but instead we jumped direct to meeting Reeves and Armold. The last few pages with Evan is actually the longest any of the individual weirdnesses of Cubetown have been featured.) So she's just been nothing but polite and/or interested on page and the "Wow. Ok. You're all idiots and I want nothing to do with this." reaction kind of seems to come out of nowhere.

----------


## BRC

Except that the apparent breaking point of incompetence is apparently Evan not realizing that they, as Security Chief, would be very capable of placing bugs? 

Like, I'm not sure what professionalism Claire would want to see in this particular context? Evan to have locked themselves up as a security risk?

----------


## Rodin

> Except that the apparent breaking point of incompetence is apparently Evan not realizing that they, as Security Chief, would be very capable of placing bugs? 
> 
> Like, I'm not sure what professionalism Claire would want to see in this particular context? Evan to have locked themselves up as a security risk?


It's not that Evan would be capable of placing bugs.  It's that Evan would be the *only* person capable of planting bugs.  Because the entire facility is covered with automated security that would alert if some contractor went into the residential area without authorization.

So either Evan is spying on them (and doing so badly), or is doing a sweep for something that is incredibly unlikely without realizing that basic fact.  Either way: Incompetent.

And if it was just this one person that would be one thing.  But Claire has been introduced to a succession of people that are some form of incompetent or dysfunctional:

----
Moray is a human resources director who is so clueless Claire walked her through the process Moray should know how to do.

Boaty is in a fight with the harbormaster, meaning he can't do his job properly.  That reflects poorly on both of them.

Reeves is having a fight with her own arm.

An entire quarter of the platform isn't being used due to management in-fighting (if there even is management).

And now a security chief who appears to be worse at her job than Worf.
------

Claire snapping isn't being unreasonable.  It's a sign that nobody in Cubetown has a clue about the most basic of jobs.  Do you trust that company to pay you on time?  To properly file your employment paperwork?  To not blow up your office?

----------


## PhantomFox

Do keep in mind, this is the same organization that wants to hire Claire to be their Chief Information Officer, or whatever the title was.  Who wants to bet this person was hired in a very similar manner?  That is, someone who should be in a very junior position, but gets thrown to the wolves because no one exists in the senior position yet, and it's too much money to turn down?

----------


## tyckspoon

> Do keep in mind, this is the same organization that wants to hire Claire to be their Chief Information Officer, or whatever the title was.  Who wants to bet this person was hired in a very similar manner?  That is, someone who should be in a very junior position, but gets thrown to the wolves because no one exists in the senior position yet, and it's too much money to turn down?


They're the 'head of autonomous security' because they're the _only_ 'autonomous security' agent? Yeah, that would be on brand. Evan's behavior gives a lot of that "AI's LARPing humanity" feel as well - likely they're actually only here because they wanted to meet the guests, or were in fact tasked with doing some basic housekeeping, but the 'head of security' can't be doing trivial things like that. So they had to come up with something suitable for the Head of Security character. Something mysterious and slightly intimidating. Sweeping for bugs, sure, that'll work, then imply that any more discussion on the topic is forbidden and your lie can never be found out! It's foolproof!

----------


## Wraith

> Claire snapping isn't being unreasonable.  It's a sign that nobody in Cubetown has a clue about the most basic of jobs.  Do you trust that company to pay you on time?  To properly file your employment paperwork?  To not blow up your office?


The question I have is; why is she only just realising this now after wasting her time coming all the way out here?

At no point has anyone involved in Cubetown shown the slightest hint of competence. Similarly, Claire lives with Marten, who is probably the QC universe's resident expert on annoying AI behaviour. The *best* AI Claire has ever met is Bubbles, who veers between socially inept and PTSD-enduring combat veteran. _She lives with Pintsize._

In any other webcomic, this could amount to a blanket statement that all AI are just not viable as a species. In QC I just can't imagine where this is going, if not ending with Claire taking the job against all sense and becoming the entire town's long-suffering babysitter/mother-figure/executive butt-wiper.

----------


## Mechalich

> At no point has anyone involved in Cubetown shown the slightest hint of competence. Similarly, Claire lives with Marten, who is probably the QC universe's resident expert on annoying AI behaviour. The *best* AI Claire has ever met is Bubbles, who veers between socially inept and PTSD-enduring combat veteran. _She lives with Pintsize._


I would say that the 'best' AI Claire has ever met is Momo, but the point generally holds. There are 12 AIs listed on the cast page. 4 of them - Bubbles, Momo, Nelson, and Roko qualify people able to function independently in society. 3 more - May, Millefeuille, and Wilson - are 'getting there but still need a lot of help,' kind of like teenagers. 2 - Station and Yay - are quirky superintelligences. And finally 3 - Beepatrice, Melon, and Pintsize - are comedic vehicles rather than actual functional characters. 

All Cubetown related characters so far fall into the last category; walking jokes not characters. 




> In any other webcomic, this could amount to a blanket statement that all AI are just not viable as a species. In QC I just can't imagine where this is going, if not ending with Claire taking the job against all sense and becoming the entire town's long-suffering babysitter/mother-figure/executive butt-wiper.


It does seem to be a statement that the AIs aren't ready for independence. In the rest of QC, AIs live integrated into pre-existing human built infrastructure, both physical and societal and cultural. Roko's actually a very good example, since she has even adopted an accent. Cubetown is broadly divorced from all that and seems to be on the verge of imploding as a result.

----------


## tyckspoon

> At no point has anyone involved in Cubetown shown the slightest hint of competence. Similarly, Claire lives with Marten, who is probably the QC universe's resident expert on annoying AI behaviour. The *best* AI Claire has ever met is Bubbles, who veers between socially inept and PTSD-enduring combat veteran. _She lives with Pintsize._


She also knows Momo, Winslow, Roko (I think? I'm kind of just assuming all of the characters that interact with the main cast at least peripherally know each other at this point. Can't recall any specific interactions between Roko and Claire), Yay, and May, who between them all are at least functional at what they do and mostly don't have any worse personality issues than Literally Everybody Else in the cast. I don't know if Claire has actually been this exposed to the sort of "pretending to do what Real Human Business People do" incompetence going on here before.

----------


## halfeye

It's all going to be "This was a test, the pass grade was telling these idiots to go away."

----------


## geoduck

> It's all going to be "This was a test, the pass grade was telling these idiots to go away."


Yeah, that might be the only way to salvage this whole setup, having the Director reveal that none of these people are actually in charge of anything.

Someone joked on another forum that the Director is going to turn out to be the Ominous Black Slab that Claire served an order of coffee to.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> Yeah, that might be the only way to salvage this whole setup, having the Director reveal that none of these people are actually in charge of anything.
> 
> Someone joked on another forum that the Director is going to turn out to be the Ominous Black Slab that Claire served an order of coffee to.


Honestly, I hope none of this is true. 

Just... as a reader, I don't want to support a red herring on this scale. If it were a book or something else that released in a large batch, that's different than a comic that's read one page at a time. I want to accept what I see on each page and react accordingly, and hope that the characters also react accordingly....

I'm not saying it's wrong to tell a story that way, just voicing my preference to not be reading that kind of story.

----------


## Vinyadan

Personally, I expect the Director to be like the Master in Fallout 1, except the humanoid part is made of Hannelore instead of Supermutant.

----------


## Wraith

> I would say that the 'best' AI Claire has ever met is Momo, but the point generally holds.


I get what you mean, but even that is faint praise!  :Small Tongue: 

Momo looks like a 14-year-old anime girl who occasionally tazes people who displease her (or just mildly irritate her, sometimes...). Her hair changes colour if you poke her navel, and she literally boils like a kettle at the thought of sex/nudity.

Roko - and I say this sympathetically because I really like her character - has complex neurological issues with her own body which sometimes involves an argument and/or make-out session with the ghost of her old chassis.

Winslow is nice, but also was bordering on agoraphobia as his major personality trait, which sometimes borders on OCD-esque phobias about dirt and bugs.

I know that ALL QC characters have their quirks, but the ones I tried to describe above tend to be AI-specific. Even the best of them are a mess of wonky personalities and fundamentally insane  biology  engineering.  :Small Big Grin: 




> I don't know if Claire has actually been this exposed to the sort of "pretending to do what Real Human Business People do" incompetence going on here before.


At the very least, her major influences fall somewhere between Bubbles and Pintsize, with Moray being the tie-breaker. On average, the prognosis is... not great.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Vinyadan

By the way, looking at old guest strips and my wondering about Patreon impact of certain content...

https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1193

and a summary of mid-early QC:

https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1196

----------


## Traab

> Do keep in mind, this is the same organization that wants to hire Claire to be their Chief Information Officer, or whatever the title was.  Who wants to bet this person was hired in a very similar manner?  That is, someone who should be in a very junior position, but gets thrown to the wolves because no one exists in the senior position yet, and it's too much money to turn down?


Or, exactly like claire, this ai randomly realized, "Hey, we are inventing stuff here that others might want to take. Shouldnt we do something to stop them from doing so?" And boom, head of security. They were already there doing whatever they were doing, then had a brief moment of clarity and instantly got lumbered with a job they arent qualified for, but are slightly more qualified than the people who didnt even realize this was something they needed until someone else mentioned it.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

I hope the director is Pintsize. I know it's not gonna happen, but I still want it.

----------


## geoduck

OK, I admit Jeph's got me hooked, wondering what goofball thing the Director will say or do or be that gets Claire to agree to take the job. Cuz she's gonna do it, it's inevitable, they are going to move to this floating insane asylum. 

And yes Marten's stayed totally in character through all of this, drifting cheerfully along through all the craziness.

----------


## Wraith

If an AI in this freaking place considers you to be "unusual", that can only mean one of two things.

One; that they're part-robot, part-liquorice allsort, part-"nebulous concept of 'confused stepladder' from that one anime", and is joyfully eating a miniature glass helicopter with their seventeen toes as the humans enter the room.

Two; They're a cis-presenting humanoid wearing slippers, corduroy pants, and a knitted tank-top. They may be reading a newspaper through bottle-bottom spectacles, if they can bear the excitement.

I'm not sure which would be the most annoying, at this point.  :Small Tongue: 

Reddit _does not_ care for Claire's reaction thus far. Even considering Jeph's statement that he got the vibe wrong yesterday, the overwhelming majority seem to be on Evan's side as Claire is "being rude to the waiting staff and demanding to speak to the manager" over the inconvenience of witnessing a security guard doing security guard stuff.

That's probably a bit reductive (not to mention slightly sexist - if it were Marten doing the yelling, no one would be calling him 'a Karen') but I can see where they're coming from. Everyone knew that working for AI was going to be a ****-show from the very beginning, but at worst Claire and Marten just got a long weekend away fully comp'd in a weird town to explore. Just... leave?

[EDIT] Also, someone pointed out that Claire is making exactly the same angry/fixed expression that Hannelore used when she was going to confront her mother. Can't help but feel the parallel is intentional, but also, not really justified in this case?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> Reddit _does not_ care for Claire's reaction thus far. Even considering Jeph's statement that he got the vibe wrong yesterday, the overwhelming majority seem to be on Evan's side as Claire is "being rude to the waiting staff and demanding to speak to the manager" over the inconvenience of witnessing a security guard doing security guard stuff.


That's bizarre. Evan committed a very serious privacy violation one that, depending on the precise structure of Cubetown's authority and the nature of Canadian laws, may well be illegal, in a fashion similar to a hotel letting a police officer into your room without a warrant is illegal. It is entirely possible that Claire has cause to sue Cubetown for violating her civil rights. This, actually, justifies why Evan would need to sweep the room in the first place, since if some Cubetown employee placed a recording device in the room, that's a criminal violation of privacy.

Of course, the ability of Evan to access the building at all for a routine search without any sort of warrant or suspicion at all, implies some rather dark things about the nature of Cubetown's legal apparatus, suggesting that the whole place is the Director's private property and the employees have no expectation of privacy anywhere in the facility. In which case: run Claire, run!

----------


## Radar

To be honest, from how things went so far, I would not be surprised if after Claire gives the Director a stern talking to, she would get an offer to take over as she clearly has more of an idea how the place should be run. Essentially the same thing that happened during the interview: point out a problem to a clueless person and get a position to fix it.

----------


## Wraith

> That's bizarre. Evan committed a very serious privacy violation one that, depending on the precise structure of Cubetown's authority and the nature of Canadian laws, may well be illegal, in a fashion similar to a hotel letting a police officer into your room without a warrant is illegal. It is entirely possible that Claire has cause to sue Cubetown for violating her civil rights. This, actually, justifies why Evan would need to sweep the room in the first place, since if some Cubetown employee placed a recording device in the room, that's a criminal violation of privacy.


I think that the assumption is based on the way the apartment was introduced. It's just "your room" rather than "your apartment" or "your soon-to-be-home", and Claire had so far made it very clear that this was a test visit, and not agreement that she would be staying. 
The general conclusion seems to be that Marten and Claire are staying in borrowed accommodation, like a hotel or Air BnB, and it's perfectly reasonable for hotel security to sweep the place before a guest arrives. In some cases, as you said, it'd be remiss of security if they DIDN'T perform that sort of diligence.

It looks and sounds like Claire walked in on a genuine security guard, doing plausible security things, in her hotel room, who then apologised and gave a reasonable explanation of what they were doing, and were upset to have caused a problem. Obviously we can probably agree that Evan's demeanour is not reassuring, but at the same time, it's not THAT suspicious, unlikely or outrageous of any AI we've met so far, let alone as to go and talk to the Mayor about it?

I'm not really sure if that's the whole thing, it's kind of what I picked up. If nothing else, if this is a "straw that broke the camel" kind of thing, it needed more time to be shown building - the same comic where Claire realised there was a 'spy' was the same one where she said she was okay and wasn't planning on leaving yet, for example. Her anger may yet turn out to be righteous, but so far it's kind of 0-100 without much in between.

----------


## Willie the Duck

> If an AI in this freaking place considers you to be "unusual", that can only mean one of two things.
> One; that they're part-robot, part-liquorice allsort, part-"nebulous concept of 'confused stepladder' from that one anime", and is joyfully eating a miniature glass helicopter with their seventeen toes as the humans enter the room.
> Two; They're a cis-presenting humanoid wearing slippers, corduroy pants, and a knitted tank-top. They may be reading a newspaper through bottle-bottom spectacles, if they can bear the excitement.


My guess is that they are a robotic octopus (possibly in a top hot, riding a velocipede, or otherwise quirky) and much chaos with water will be had. 





> Reddit _does not_ care for Claire's reaction thus far. Even considering Jeph's statement that he got the vibe wrong yesterday, the overwhelming majority seem to be on Evan's side as Claire is "being rude to the waiting staff and demanding to speak to the manager" over the inconvenience of witnessing a security guard doing security guard stuff.
> 
> That's probably a bit reductive (not to mention slightly sexist - if it were Marten doing the yelling, no one would be calling him 'a Karen') but I can see where they're coming from. Everyone knew that working for AI was going to be a ****-show from the very beginning, but at worst Claire and Marten just got a long weekend away fully comp'd in a weird town to explore. Just... leave?


About what I expect from Reddit in general, and the QC reddit threads these days. They are not wrong, of course, that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense... except in that it kinda does replicate IRL straw-that-broke the camel's back situations where the thing that set someone off isn't the biggest frustration of the larger problem. All-in-all, though, I think Jeph just realized too late that this all was dragging, and then found a way to get them going to see the boss.

I don't really mind Claire deciding that she needs to go ream out the Director here, just the way we're getting there. It feels a little last-two-seasons-of-GoT where the direction of the plot is fine, but the steps along the way are poorly paced or thought out. We spent entirely too long with everyone back home weighing in on the interview and then when we get here, we are rushing to the confrontation/climax.




> To be honest, from how things went so far, I would not be surprised if after Claire gives the Director a stern talking to, she would get an offer to take over as she clearly has more of an idea how the place should be run. Essentially the same thing that happened during the interview: point out a problem to a clueless person and get a position to fix it.


Certainly possible. Or just a major manager/assistant to the Director/other way that she can be a major decision-maker and sort out the insanity.  Or, and I'm not placing money on this, maybe Jeph will use this as a 'not all first job offers out of college are good ones' message.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> The general conclusion seems to be that Marten and Claire are staying in borrowed accommodation, like a hotel or Air BnB, and it's perfectly reasonable for hotel security to sweep the place before a guest arrives. In some cases, as you said, it'd be remiss of security if they DIDN'T perform that sort of diligence.
> 
> It looks and sounds like Claire walked in on a genuine security guard, doing plausible security things, in her hotel room, who then apologised and gave a reasonable explanation of what they were doing, and were upset to have caused a problem. Obviously we can probably agree that Evan's demeanour is not reassuring, but at the same time, it's not THAT suspicious, unlikely or outrageous of any AI we've met so far, let alone as to go and talk to the Mayor about it?


Exactly - it was made very clear in comic that these were guest rooms.

While Claire's little speech here sounds good, it is really nothing more than Claire taking out her frustrations on an employee who is doing their assigned job. Why is Evan still in the apartment? We don't know. Perhaps they were delayed by lots of other work, is stressed, and then the guests walk in while the room is still being swept. It's understandable, but doesn't reflect well on Claire.

Besides, saying "If anyone was going to be planting the bugs in this room it would be you" is missing the point. Evan is doing their job sweeping for bugs in a guest room. If the automated security had been compromised the manual search would be the only immediate way of finding out. Not relying soley on the automatics is a very good security choice, not an incompetent one.

----------


## Wraith

> Exactly - it was made very clear in comic that these were guest rooms.


In fairness, Moray doesn't explicitly say "guest". It's definitely implied, and from the context we have from Claire saying that it was just an exploratory visit and not to be taken as an agreement during the interview we wouldn't think it was meant any other way.... But it would not be beyond the AI to ignore that and give her an apartment, thinking she would just move straight in.

But then I'm writing something that hasn't even been alluded to yet, either, so... *shrug*




> Besides, saying "If anyone was going to be planting the bugs in this room it would be you" is missing the point.


I have to admit; this, above everything, is where the plot unwravels. "I'm a security guard for a multi-billion dollar research facility, and I was checking your room for bugs" is unfortunately a reasonable thing to say, especially when the other CEO we know from the comic is Hannelore's biblically-evil mother who definitely WOULD do such a thing.

"Oh yeah? Maybe YOU'RE the one planting bugs!" is just... conspiracy theory nonsense. It's the sort of thing a deeply strange person would throw back if they knew they were losing an argument and just began making stuff up to try and distract from the subject. Why would Claire's first instinct be to suspect someone in a security guards' uniform to be a nefarious pervert/spy?

I kind of wonder if this side of Claire is something that was VERY faintly alluded to, and has now suddenly been made a major personality trait. She was weirdly suspicious of Willow based on mostly harmless information, maybe 'irrational distrust of strangers' is supposed to be a _thing_ now.

----------


## BRC

So, the really weird this is I can figure EXACTLY how this comes about. 

Jeph's outlines is probably "Claire gets increasingly exhasperated with Cubetown's nonsense until she explodes and is taken to see the Director", however he hadn't really fleshed out much Wacky Unprofessionalism except for Moray. 

So when we meet our second proper Cubetown Character, Jeph tries to force an explosion into the situation, but fails to actually give Claire anything worth exploding over. He usually just writes sitcommy stuff, create a situation and let his characters bounce off each other until Comic appears. When he does do Plot, it usually involves well-established characters. 

This is him having Plot hinge on a not-especially well established character (Evan).

----------


## tyckspoon

> I kind of wonder if this side of Claire is something that was VERY faintly alluded to, and has now suddenly been made a major personality trait. She was weirdly suspicious of Willow based on mostly harmless information, maybe 'irrational distrust of strangers' is supposed to be a _thing_ now.


I feel like this all supposed to be a Humorous Misunderstanding that is being very poorly presented (which is kind of par for the course about.. basically everything related to Cubetown, so) stemming from Evan just being shy and awkward - yes, they did have a legitimate reason to be in that apartment, and if they'd opened with 'Hello, I'm Evan, I'm with Security. Nobody's used this space in a while so we were just checking that nobody left anything weird in here while it was empty. Nice to meet you, was Ol' Boaty behaving today?' everything would be ok. But instead they tried to hide on the balcony and acted like they hoped nobody would notice them, isn't that funny? Well, no, it's kinda creepy actually, and if you act like you're not supposed to be in a place you should not be surprised that people are suspicious of you when they catch you there!

----------


## Vinyadan

I think Claire is being Karen, but Karen, in the now common (and misogynistic) meaning of a woman raising an issue with your manager, is often right. It's easy to see the annoying customer in front of you, and forget your company sold her a broken product, or committed gross violations of the health code.

However, things get somewhat uncomfortable if we go for the origin of the concept. The old meaning of Karen as a slang (and many other similarly used names) is a white woman being disdainful and arrogant towards black people. And here we have Claire, with her boyfriend, the only two white humans we are certain to have seen on the island, who is being very cranky with an AI (a member of a discriminated-against social group) on AI island. Add to this that Claire has (?) the knowledge and skills to get things right on the island of AIs: actually, they are more or less begging her to save them from their disastrous disorganisation. Her boyfriend is also very attractive for the islanders, and, if I recall correctly, he once asked "do you really want to be served food by an AI?".

Of course, the AIs in QC are Jeph's own thing; what I mean is that they aren't a clear stand-in for something else. But their characterisation ended up insisting on the happy-go-lucky, disorganised and shallowly imitative behaviour that used to be attributed to "primitive" societies and contrasted to highly capable, disciplined and organised (select-)white societies, with all that came from it. The big difference here, compared to colonial-era thinking, is that the AIs have the advantage of being borderline immortal and not subsisting on flesh, so they are bound to inherit the world, while humans can and maybe must fade and currently persist only at the AIs behest, which more or less disables a general (albeit not a particular) white saviour narrative; plus the work setting, which has its own set of rules. And Marten's worries about being served food had probably something to do with battery acid.

----------


## Wraith

"AIs as stand-ins for minorities" is absolutely a theme that QC has been guilty of, from May being discriminated against while job hunting to the human cast constantly infantilising them. The reading of a 'white saviour' story is almost certainly not intentional, but it is not entirely inaccurate.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> In fairness, Moray doesn't explicitly say "guest". It's definitely implied, ...


I don't see how "you'll be staying in one reserved for visitors" is not explicit.





> I kind of wonder if this side of Claire is something that was VERY faintly alluded to, and has now suddenly been made a major personality trait. She was weirdly suspicious of Willow based on mostly harmless information, maybe 'irrational distrust of strangers' is supposed to be a _thing_ now.


You're doing better than me... I've been trying to find anything that suggests that this is one of her character traits, but can't think of anything.

To give her what due I can here, she's at the end of a long journey to what she increasingly suspects is a madhouse. She's probably exhausted from the travelling, then having to deal with Moray at the end of it. I suspect that if she hadn't had to deal with Moray she might have been a little less ratty with Evan.

----------


## Wraith

> I don't see how "you'll be staying in one reserved for visitors" is not explicit.


You may or may not be surprised to learn that I kind of got halfway through the first panel and my eyes just kind of.... slid away from the big blocks of text until I got to "...and that's it". Can't imagine how that happened....  :Small Wink: 




> You're doing better than me... I've been trying to find anything that suggests that this is one of her character traits, but can't think of anything.


As "first meetings" go; She thought Willow was a serial killer, and also would have called the cops on Hannelore, and accused Marten of being a hazing ritual. But also immediately bonded with Brun over silly dog jokes, used Elliot as a jungle gym, declared Yay's vigilantism to be 'cool and mysterious', and let herself get spanked by Pintsize.

So it kind of is a trait... except when it isn't? But that's hardly new to anyone in QC.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> I think that the assumption is based on the way the apartment was introduced. It's just "your room" rather than "your apartment" or "your soon-to-be-home", and Claire had so far made it very clear that this was a test visit, and not agreement that she would be staying. 
> The general conclusion seems to be that Marten and Claire are staying in borrowed accommodation, like a hotel or Air BnB, and it's perfectly reasonable for hotel security to sweep the place before a guest arrives. In some cases, as you said, it'd be remiss of security if they DIDN'T perform that sort of diligence.


It's perfectly reasonable for hotel security to sweep a room before a guest arrives, yes, though a guest who'd already checked in and found hotel security still in their room would justifiably be angry. However, the issue here is that Evan _doesn't represent hotel security_, they're the head of security for the entirety of Cubetown - and we know this because they are armed, which hotel staff in Canada (or almost everywhere, really) would not be. 

Evan is a genuine officer of the law, representing Cubetown as a whole. A municipal cop cannot simply go into someone's hotel room without either a warrant or some level of suspicion (for example, sounds of an active fight suggesting danger to the occupants). For Evan to be in Claire and Marten's room is either A. a civil rights violation or B. implies that Cubetown, the entity, owns these rooms as private property and therefore there is no expectation of privacy within them, rather like staying on an army barracks. Both of these things are very bad.

----------


## halfeye

> Of course, the ability of Evan to access the building at all for a routine search without any sort of warrant or suspicion at all, implies some rather dark things about the nature of Cubetown's legal apparatus, suggesting that the whole place is the Director's private property and the employees have no expectation of privacy anywhere in the facility. In which case: run Claire, run!


There have never been any real world organisations run that way of course! (two currently come to mind).

Hotel security sweeping a room for bugs would be legitimate, but they'd have to be out of there before the room was assigned to potential occupants.

----------


## Wraith

> Evan is a genuine officer of the law, representing Cubetown as a whole. A municipal cop cannot simply go into someone's hotel room without either a warrant or some level of suspicion (for example, sounds of an active fight suggesting danger to the occupants). For Evan to be in Claire and Marten's room is either A. a civil rights violation or B. implies that Cubetown, the entity, owns these rooms as private property and therefore there is no expectation of privacy within them, rather like staying on an army barracks. Both of these things are very bad.


Genuine question, because I truly don't know the answer; at what point does the room "become" Claire and Marten's?

One perception - and I think this may be the common one on Reddit, correct or not - is that Evan didn't "enter" "Marten and Claire's room", rather it was an empty suite that was assigned while Evan was already in there. Which way round does it go - that the room MUST NOT be assigned to a guest until security have left, in which case this is entirely Moray's screw up and intimidating Evan like this is unfair? Or that the instant the room is assigned, it becomes illegal for security to be there with or without their knowledge of the assignment?

The former means that it can't be Marten and Claire's room yet, because security is still present so it can't be assigned to them. The latter must have some sort of grace period wherein someone can go, "Oh you're here? One second and we'll pack up and leave right now" for situations just like this, otherwise a booking error or a guest catching one bus earlier than expected becomes a massive law suit and that seems impractical.

Or our old friend, option C: Jeph didn't know any of this/think about it, that his mall cop-equivalent having a tazer is wildly inappropriate, and this wacky little faux pas would actually be a major real-world problem except in QC it just isn't because 'shut up, is why'.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> Or our old friend, option C: Jeph didn't know any of this/think about it, that his mall cop-equivalent having a tazer is wildly inappropriate, and this wacky little faux pas would actually be a major real-world problem except in QC it just isn't because 'shut up, is why'.


The taser's on her right hip, but there's a _firearm_ on her left hip, or at least something with the appropriate size and shape that has no reason to exist if its anything else. By itself that makes sense, cops in Canada are armed and Cubetown presumably qualifies as either a municipality in its own right or an extension of Halifax - it is very much not sufficiently far from the coast to be in international waters - but it produces so many fraught issues. This is all very much part and parcel of Jeph going offboard and using the 'giant floating platform' idea rather than putting the facility in a typicla office campus/industrial park which would by itself eliminate many of these issues.

But yes, the correct answer is that Jeph isn't thinking about things. For example, the newest comic, 4942, implies that they are super deep. As I posted four days ago, Cubetown is sitting in maybe 20-40 meters of water, which means for the Director's base to be far down it would have to be mined into the crust, not at the bottom of the ocean.

----------


## theNater

> Evan committed a very serious privacy violation...


I'm not following this.  Can you walk me through how Evan searching a room Claire has never been in violates Claire's privacy?

----------


## Wraith

> I'm not following this.  Can you walk me through how Evan searching a room Claire has never been in violates Claire's privacy?


Not the searching specifically - that fact that she was still there when Claire and Marten entered, and didn't announce and justify herself until after she'd been discovered.

The absolute best case scenario is that it was a completely innocent mistake, but still involved a police officer _having the opportunity_ to eavesdrop on a private conversation in a confidential place - whether she did so or not, is mostly beside the point. She shouldn't have been there.

For the record, I am fully on the side that Evan was acting innocently and just happened to be caught up without the ability to act spontaneously. The part that I dislike is that Claire, who usually is the mediator and level-head of any given situation, has immediately disregarded that and gone to the worst case scenario which is both unfair to Evan and Marten and quite unlike her.

----------


## Gnoman

> Evan is a genuine officer of the law, representing Cubetown as a whole. A municipal cop cannot simply go into someone's hotel room without either a warrant or some level of suspicion (for example, sounds of an active fight suggesting danger to the occupants). For Evan to be in Claire and Marten's room is either A. a civil rights violation or B. implies that Cubetown, the entity, owns these rooms as private property and therefore there is no expectation of privacy within them, rather like staying on an army barracks. Both of these things are very bad.


Police forces do, in fact, routinely inspect hotel rooms that will be used for important persons in sensitive areas. Cubetown is suggested to be exactly the sort of research institution where such a procedure is not only reasonable but expected.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

I think that normally, a room wouldn't be assigned to a guest until confirmation that the standard security sweep is complete has been received. But like everything else in Cubetown, the hotel or apartment complex is being run by clueless amateurs and the correct procedure isn't being followed.

Either that, or Evan took it upon themself to perform a security sweep without informing anyone or going through the proper channels.

Whichever is the case, I can see why the situation is infuriating to Claire.

----------


## Vinyadan

> I think that normally, a room wouldn't be assigned to a guest until confirmation that the standard security sweep is complete has been received. But like everything else in Cubetown, the hotel or apartment complex is being run by clueless amateurs and the correct procedure isn't being followed.
> 
> Either that, or Evan took it upon themself to perform a security sweep without informing anyone or going through the proper channels.
> 
> Whichever is the case, I can see why the situation is infuriating to Claire.


In a normal hotel, you would assign (not give) the room to a guest as soon as he books. Then you would have a routine: a check-out time and a check-in time. Once the previous guest has checked out, you would have the hotel staff enter the room as soon as possible and do all things necessary (which normally means changing the sheets, bringing in new soap, and cleaning the place; a fancier place might refill the fridge or reset the temperature in the room, and do many other things). Guests arriving before check-in time would have to wait until the room is ready, and then you would give them the keys, and maybe give them a little tour of the place. It's not impossible, but it is unwanted, for the guests to find workers in the room, and it would be far better to have the guests wait until all work is finished, or to reassign them a different room, if possible. If there is someone from the staff in the room when the guest gets in, that someone must have a very good explanation for his presence (which really wouldn't be difficult to give, because honest workers enter rooms because they have to).

Thefts happen in hotels, and staff members can be the culprit, as they know the place and have access to the rooms. So I think Claire is right about being cross, it's just that the comic is all about people like Shaveson or whatever the Chief of Security is called, anxious people that cannot explain themselves well and are in over their head. Imagine someone going like that on Hannelore.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

> In a normal hotel, you would assign (not give) the room to a guest as soon as he books. Then you would have a routine: a check-out time and a check-in time. Once the previous guest has checked out, you would have the hotel staff enter the room as soon as possible and do all things necessary (which normally means changing the sheets, bringing in new soap, and cleaning the place; a fancier place might refill the fridge or reset the temperature in the room, and do many other things). Guests arriving before check-in time would have to wait until the room is ready, and then you would give them the keys, and maybe give them a little tour of the place. It's not impossible, but it is unwanted, for the guests to find workers in the room, and it would be far better to have the guests wait until all work is finished, or to reassign them a different room, if possible. If there is someone from the staff in the room when the guest gets in, that someone must have a very good explanation for his presence (which really wouldn't be difficult to give, because honest workers enter rooms because they have to).


That's what I said, just with more words.  :Small Confused:

----------


## The Glyphstone

> My guess is that they are a robotic octopus (possibly in a top hot, riding a velocipede, or otherwise quirky) and much chaos with water will be had.


Well, you were pretty close?

----------


## Rodin

Im baffled as to why anyone can think Claire is overreacting.  This isnt walking into your room to find the maid still cleaning it (which is arguably complaint worthy itself), this is walking into the room and finding the maid hiding in the bathtub.  At that point theres no amount of shes allowed to be there that justifies the situation.

On todays comic, Im betting that isnt actually the director.

----------


## Wraith

If the 'maid' immediately apologised and explained that she heard someone come in unexpectedly, panicked, and just didn't know how to get out of the situation because they have the self-confidence of a radish, I honestly can't say that I would be inclined to make a complaint that could cost them their job, and certainly not make that complaint to 'the Mayor of the town'.  :Small Tongue: 

Then again, complaints about employees would go through HR, which is Moray, so.... Yeah, _anyone else_ might be nice....  :Small Wink: 

On the other hand, I think part of it is because this is just generally un-Claire-like behaviour. This is the same character who immediately folded and offered to change her name when Veronica used the wrong tone of voice at her. It's also the same Claire who, when frustrated over lack of updates on her exam results, very gently kicked over an empty waste paper basket and then immediately apologised for her 'violent outburst'. She had to take an ativan to stop freaking out after Clinton blabbed that she had innocently cuddled Marten at the wedding.

This is a big, dramatic break in her temper, from someone who specifically tries not to judge people on their actions and talks them through their emotions with a great deal of intelligence. It's possibly being described as an 'overreaction' not necessarily because she's wrong to be concerned about the place, but because this isn't the way that people would expect Claire to go about it?




> On todays comic, Im betting that isnt actually the director.


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

----------


## Mechalich

> If the 'maid' immediately apologised and explained that she heard someone come in unexpectedly, panicked, and just didn't know how to get out of the situation because they have the self-confidence of a radish, I honestly can't say that I would be inclined to make a complaint that could cost them their job,


A maid is different from a security/police officer. Part of the problem here is that Evan is clearly _incredibly unsuited_ to their actual position, which is one of those things that isn't comical when it comes to people who have to make decisions involving things like 'deadly force.' Causing Evan to lose their job would be, based on the evidence we have available, a good thing. 




> On the other hand, I think part of it is because this is just generally un-Claire-like behaviour. This is the same character who immediately folded and offered to change her name when Veronica used the wrong tone of voice at her. It's also the same Claire who, when frustrated over lack of updates on her exam results, very gently kicked over an empty waste paper basket and then immediately apologised for her 'violent outburst'. She had to take an ativan to stop freaking out after Clinton blabbed that she had innocently cuddled Marten at the wedding.
> 
> This is a big, dramatic break in her temper, from someone who specifically tries not to judge people on their actions and talks them through their emotions with a great deal of intelligence. It's possibly being described as an 'overreaction' not necessarily because she's wrong to be concerned about the place, but because this isn't the way that people would expect Claire to go about it?


This is true, though I can see a path to it, based on the assumption that Claire has recognized that each and every person in Cubetown she's encountered up to this point is someone she can't talk to, because they are functionally incapable of having an adult conversation. It is notable though that it was Evan, not Claire, who suggested speaking to the director. Claire's initial response was to simply walk out.

Still Claire is a little out of character here, and I can think of two reasons. First, Marten, for whatever reason, has approached this whole thing with a truly astounding level of calm, especially given the prolonged interregnum of violent illness (motion sickness doesn't generally improve my chill, but I guess it takes all kinds?) and he's the only other person here. Second, Jeph is clearly aware, on some level, of just how ridiculous Cubetown is and feels obligated to have the characters acknowledge this to avoid appearing like he thinks this is all okay. Because of the aforementioned choice with Marten, Claire is simply the only person present capable of fulfilling this role. Essentially the demands of the joke require Claire to break character, at least to a degree. Consider, as a hypothetical, if they'd brought Pintsize along - he would be the one making all the various 'this f****** place' remarks.'

----------


## Vinyadan

Off cam, Marten has actually been stuffing his mouth full of edibles the whole time. That's how he keeps his composure, and why he's currently Rocky-Mountain high.

----------


## Traab

> So, the really weird this is I can figure EXACTLY how this comes about. 
> 
> Jeph's outlines is probably "Claire gets increasingly exhasperated with Cubetown's nonsense until she explodes and is taken to see the Director", however he hadn't really fleshed out much Wacky Unprofessionalism except for Moray. 
> 
> So when we meet our second proper Cubetown Character, Jeph tries to force an explosion into the situation, but fails to actually give Claire anything worth exploding over. He usually just writes sitcommy stuff, create a situation and let his characters bounce off each other until Comic appears. When he does do Plot, it usually involves well-established characters. 
> 
> This is him having Plot hinge on a not-especially well established character (Evan).


A potential angle could be, the straw that breaks the camels back is really silly and when she specifically complains about it, she is brought to understand that, and that derails all her building disdain for cubetown so she just takes the job anyways. Like, all this stuff happened as it did in comic, then she goes to take a drink and the wrapper got stuck to the bottom of the straw and she went nuts because all the pressure was building up as insane thing after insane thing kept happening. 

Also for the ongoing argument, no, its not really making sense for her to flip out. This isnt her property. Its the property of cubetown (presumably) and thus they have the right to run security scans of it before a guest arrives. It would make sense to do the final sweep right before she gets there because say you do it the night before. What stops "someone" from sneaking in and planting bugs before she gets there? While she flubbed the meeting by panicking and hiding rather than coming forward and introducing herself, claire seems disturbingly determined to maintain a level of ticked off that this event doesnt merit. Its possible its an overall ticked and she is planning to rant about every step of the way from her phone interview where she literally created a job position for herself till the head of security messed up, but honestly its a strange place to suddenly dig your heels in over.

----------


## Wraith

> While she flubbed the meeting by panicking and hiding rather than coming forward and introducing herself, claire seems disturbingly determined to maintain a level of ticked off that this event doesnt merit. Its possible its an overall ticked and she is planning to rant about every step of the way from her phone interview where she literally created a job position for herself till the head of security messed up, but honestly its a strange place to suddenly dig your heels in over.


I think this is more like what I'm leaning to. Not specifically or only that Claire is infuriated by the antics of idiot AI, but that something about the interview or the job has outraged her in principle.

I'm fan-fictioning from this point, but I could see how Claire had her hopes and dreams pinned on a legitimate job offer from a sensible employer, or even a slightly eccentric one, but what she's been through is being interpreted as an insult. Cubetown isn't just incompetent, but they're so stupid that she is offended by the way they have toyed with her hopes and generally wasted her time. 

She held out hope that _maybe_ she could have visited the town, met ONE person who knew what they were doing, and work for them? Why not - wacky AI aside it's a still good opportunity, and SOMEONE has to be responsible for all this? But no, they can't even get a hotel reservation right.

Claire isn't just annoyed, she's indignant. How dare the Director 'hand pick' her just to screw around and offer nonsense, when she's just a normal graduate trying to make a living? Is her livelihood - her vocation, even - really that much of a joke to them?

I could see her point, why she'd suddenly realise that a line had been crossed, and also understand why someone would offer her a chat with the CEO and she'd immediately go "Aha, yes! The instigator of all this bulls***! I definitely wanna yell at THEM!"




> Off cam, Marten has actually been stuffing his mouth full of edibles the whole time. That's how he keeps his composure, and why he's currently Rocky-Mountain high.


I mean, right now he's sitting in a dark room listening to "Star Trek 24 hour Engine Room SOUNDFX.mp3", your deduction certainly adds up.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Well, you were pretty close?


Given that the universe of options was practically anything, I say I did pretty well. That said, I think I had an inside track with the aquatic theme.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Ionathus

And that wraps up normal QC comics for the year...

I'm looking forward to Bembo Season more than usual. At least Bembo knows what he's about.

----------


## Vinyadan

When the bespectacled trans woman with red hair and a septum ring goes "Of course you're a __________" , you know optimum crankiness has been reached.

Although I wonder if she's channelling the readership for each time a Lemon/Melon/Slimon comes up.

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

> I'm looking forward to Bembo Season more than usual. At least Bembo knows what he's about.


I'm not.

I really dislike Bembo, and I'm not really sure why. It's not that I don't like fantasy parodies, it's not that the artwork is bad (it's actually fairly good). It just leaves me completely cold, which adds to the annoyance.

Still, it's not like I have many complaints for the rest of the strip. Who knows, it may be better this time...

----------


## Rodin

> And that wraps up normal QC comics for the year...
> 
> I'm looking forward to Bembo Season more than usual. At least Bembo knows what he's about.


I've always had a soft spot for Bembo, and this time Bembo will actually result in an _increase_ in the intelligence and believability of the characters.

----------


## Vinyadan

Just hope it's not Bembot  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mordokai

> At least Bembo knows what he's about.


Can we prove Bembo is sapient?

----------


## Vinyadan

> Can we prove Bembo is sapient?


Who knows? Maybe he's a philosophical Bembo.

----------


## Gez

> Can we prove Bembo is sapient?


Yes

Bembo solved this random encounter thanks to his knowledge, wisdom, and observational skills.

----------


## Wraith

I love how quickly we have started discussing the viability of Bembo being sentient, rather than deal with the last QC strip.

Claire is furious at random wacky AI shenanigans, then immediately deflates and empathises with a random wacky AI.

Consistency is for cowards.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## The Glyphstone

Maybe she just realized the futility of arguing with something of essentially alien sapience.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> Maybe she just realized the futility of arguing with something of essentially alien sapience.


And that understanding is maybe why the Director "picked her"?

----------


## Mechalich

> Maybe she just realized the futility of arguing with something of essentially alien sapience.


I think it's maybe that curiosity has overcome anger, at least briefly. Moray-44 opens up the giant can of worms that is Forking - something QC, imo, absolutely did not need - and even though Claire is a long way from a specialist she is smart enough, and spends enough time around a brother who is, to grasp just how unbelievably impressive that action is. After all, the Director just _created a sapient being_ while she watched.

----------


## Vinyadan

Claire is angry for being swamped in a place where nothing works as it should and nothing makes sense, but is given the exceptional chance to speak with the being that got her there and who rules over it all. So Claire moves to this unreachable place, where she's alone with this being of light, and asks why he wants her to do something he could do himself. Then the being sends a fallible intermediary to communicate with her, the kind of person she has already met, except this time there is no doubt about who sent her, and Claire listens.

I'm pretty sure I've already read something similar  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> I'm pretty sure I've already read something similar


..._Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker_? That's all I can think of.

----------


## Wraith

It's clearly Obi-Wan Kenobi and the force-ghost of Qui Gon Jinn, as depicted in the _Kenobi_ TV series.

----------


## Cikomyr2

> Claire is angry for being swamped in a place where nothing works as it should and nothing makes sense, but is given the exceptional chance to speak with the being that got her there and who rules over it all. So Claire moves to this unreachable place, where she's alone with this being of light, and asks why he wants her to do something he could do himself. Then the being sends a fallible intermediary to communicate with her, the kind of person she has already met, except this time there is no doubt about who sent her, and Claire listens.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I've already read something similar


Jay-Zeus?

Just spitballing here.

----------


## Vinyadan

If you like the Bembo concept (Barbarian with modern elements, references, and twists) you should read Guthrum (I really like the art in it).

----------


## Manga Shoggoth

Well, as the proclaimed Bembo hater, I feel compelled to admit that today's strip was hilarious. Somewhat predictable, of course, but I didn't expect accounting (and the business plate hust adds to the joke).

----------


## Rodin

> Well, as the proclaimed Bembo hater, I feel compelled to admit that today's strip was hilarious. Somewhat predictable, of course, but I didn't expect accounting (and the business plate hust adds to the joke).


The joke itself is older than I am.  The implementation of it here was excellent.  I especially love the "swords as business expense" gag.

Friday's comic I also quite enjoyed.  Possibly because I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3 right now and just had a hard fight where the "reward" was a trapped chest that blew up in my face and obliterated all the treasure.

----------


## DavidSh

The punch line I usually see is "paint my house", but "do my taxes" works pretty well, as we are about to enter the season for accumulating tax statements (W2s, 1099s, etc) in the US.

----------


## theangelJean

> The punch line I usually see is "paint my house", but "do my taxes" works pretty well, as we are about to enter the season for accumulating tax statements (W2s, 1099s, etc) in the US.


Sure, but the better the subversion of the "feminine role", the more pointed the joke can be. I agree that this one was particularly well done.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Looks like we're still in the "incessantly acknowledge the weirdness of the situation, in case the audience hasn't figured that out for themselves" part of the scene. Maybe this reads better as an archive, but it feels repetitive right now.

----------


## Mordokai

> Looks like we're still in the "incessantly acknowledge the weirdness of the situation, in case the audience hasn't figured that out for themselves" part of the scene. Maybe this reads better as an archive, but it feels repetitive right now.


Are you implying Jeph is a writing hack that needs to point out his own shortcomings, for the fear the audience may be too stupid to catch on their own, thereby signifying a lack of skill on his own part?

Honest question, I swear.

----------


## Wraith

I think there's a certain amount of calling out his own flaws in order to make them seem 'ironic' and 'genre savvy' rather than 'something to be worked on and fixed'.

----------


## Agi Hammerthief

> If you like the Bembo concept (Barbarian with modern elements, references, and twists) you should read Guthrum (I really like the art in it).


does that have anything resembling a regular update schedule?
I like the art, but is it has a glacial update schedule its going to go to the check next decade folder.

----------


## Vinyadan

> does that have anything resembling a regular update schedule?
> I like the art, but is it has a glacial update schedule its going to go to the check next decade folder.


It's very, very slow. The other comic on the site (Power Nap) also had this problem, the art is great, but pages come out when they do, and there's often a very long wait in between.

----------


## Agi Hammerthief

> It's very, very slow. The other comic on the site (Power Nap) also had this problem, the art is great, but pages come out when they do, and there's often a very long wait in between.


ok, thanks
Ill call it the check when Gone With The Blast Wave updates folder

----------


## Rodin

Once again we're back to the point where I find Claire very irresponsible for even considering taking on the task.  Unless I'm misreading the job description drastically it's far outside the scope of her degree even if she was an experienced practitioner with 10 years under belt.  Taking it would be a short route to failure even under ideal circumstances, and "your boss will be a blue and orange morality jellyfish" is kind of the opposite of ideal.  And finally there's the risks inherent to Cubetown - if this were an office job the worst that can happen is that the company suffers and you get fired.  But this position involves dealing with people who blow up the platform on a daily basis.  The only reason people wouldn't _die_ from Claire taking the job is if she lived in a zany cartoon sitcom world instead of reality.

Which means Claire is acting with horrific disregard for consequences, or meta-gaming because she knows she's in a webcomic.  I'm not sure which is worse.

----------


## Mechalich

> Which means Claire is acting with horrific disregard for consequences, or meta-gaming because she knows she's in a webcomic.  I'm not sure which is worse.


Everything about Cubetown involves meta-gaming, so that's pretty much par for the course at this point. The recent reveal behind the Director as an alien superintelligence only confirms that there are no adults in the room, anywhere. This fundamentally doesn't work, Cubetown is too big and too complicated to have operated for however long it has already existed without having a minimally competent administration in place _somewhere_. They needed to recruit one hundred Claire's five years ago, not just one person now. Everything is massively out of sync and wildly off-scale. 

And the commentary in the New Year's comic indicates that Jeph doesn't seem to realize the mistake he's made and only intends to double down.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Are you implying Jeph is a writing hack that needs to point out his own shortcomings, for the fear the audience may be too stupid to catch on their own, thereby signifying a lack of skill on his own part?
> 
> Honest question, I swear.


Since you specifically called it an "honest question", I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic.

No, I am not implying [what you said]. I'm saying the scene is boring and repetitive.

----------


## Vinyadan

This wouldn't be a bad page per se, but I can't help but think: aren't we back to where we were at the beginning? Claire is being Claire, and that's about it. During the phone call, she was worried by idiocy, accepted anyway, and Yay told her the same stuff as Moray. Now she has been irked by idiocy, Moray told her the same stuff as Yay (why she's needed), and she accepted anyway. The only added value is a very tiny bit of worldbuilding. And now there's either going to be more term and lodging discussions, or a direct passage to more idiocy, and more clenching of teeth, and more idiocy... until the idiotic AIs are finally bent and civilization common sense triumphs?

Really, what is there to look forward to? I mean, in theory there's a lot that could be done, but I can't imagine much. Claire learning to leave and cut her losses is the most I can imagine, but she already seems ready to do that.

I wonder if the strip is also being influenced by the news, "I wish I were a big manager at a chaotic social media/hi-tech company, then I would do beautiful things." The unionise arc clearly was.

----------


## BRC

Eh, I feel like the big "revelation" here is that Claire wasn't selected randomly, which goes a long way towards moving things forwards. 


The first red flag was that Claire, a fresh graduate, was being selected for a senior role at a major organization, apparently because some mysterious "Director" liked the vibe of her resume, and her interview with Moray indicated that Moray had no idea WHAT Cubetown actually needed, but had just been given Claire's resume and was like "Oh! She looks cool!" 


The idea is that The Director is really good at seeing connections, but bad at communicating things. Claire wasn't picked randomly, she was selected by an alien hyperintelligence who determined that she was a good fit for the job. The idea is that there IS some method to Cubetown's madness. 



Stripping away the sci-fi elements and "You've got the right personality for this role!" Stuff, it's like...
 Lets say you are offered a job, it's theoretically a dream position, but you're woefully underqualified. The HR person you do your screening interview with says "Oh, the higher-ups are very excited about you!" but can't answer any questions of WHY you were selected, but they're bubbly and confident that you'll do a great job! The impression given is either of a scam, or of an organization so incompetent that they're staffing a crucial position by grabbing a resume from the pile, OR so desperate that they've burned through all the qualified candidates and are giving you the hard-sell. 

You go through with the process, and it turns out that behind the bubbly HR person there's a 12-member selection committee made up of key stakeholders and subject matter experts that very much knows what they're doing. One of them knows one of your professors, who vouched for you and submitted your senior thesis which happens to be focused on some niche topic that is going to be central to doing the job. The committee was impressed by your thesis and told HR to reach out to you because they felt you were qualified and trusted your professor's recommendation, but all that either went over the HR person's head, or the HR person, knowing you were the committee's top choice, just gave you the generic "We know you'll love it here and do a great job!" hard-sell.

Edit: This isn't to say that Jeph is neccessarily doing a great job at setting all this up, just that I see the goal of this whole sequence (Even if it's basically "A wizard did it")

----------


## Wraith

> Eh, I feel like the big "revelation" here is that Claire wasn't selected randomly, which goes a long way towards moving things forwards.


Two things occur to me.

One; everything that Moray has said to Claire, is just obvious platitudes. Like, calling her "young and intelligent" sounds like a compliment, until you remember that Claire is 23 years old and has a Masters degree in a niche academic subject - its hardly a revelation, its just.... stating the obvious. Almost like an AI with poor socialisation has read a resume and took every word of it at face-value, without having read any other resumes to realise that "hard working and enthusiastic" is what EVERYONE puts on their resume.

Two; If they didn't read Claire's resume - which seems entirely likely, because she never mentioned that she applied to Cubetown and no-one knows how or why the Director knows about her - then they must have learned these things for themselves through direct observation.

You know. Monitoring her from afar. Apparently without her knowledge. Just like how it was implied that _there might be cameras in her hotel room and immediately drove her into berzerker fury of outrage and that she has now completely forgotten about_.

----------


## Vinyadan

Claire could ask "how do you know that", and the easiest answer would be "we got the reports of your time at the library". "We asked your teachers." "We saw your Linkedin." "You were tagged in photographs with social media users who are known as hard-working, so we assume you are too." (this last one was actual advice that was around some years ago, get tagged together with other good students).

What I don't get is: why is the Director suddenly aware of the importance of all of these nice things Moray is telling Claire? I understand that researchers may have their heads up in the clouds, but what about Shaveson (or whatever the security chief is called)? Why are Morays being given HR roles, instead of starting from hiring capable HR people?

Also, a horrible thought: Claire was lucky, because the Director assumed her soft skills were right for a job she isn't prepared or qualified for. But the janitor had an actual physicist degree. Did the Director just go, "I see you are meticulous, your soft skills qualify you as an excellent janitor!"

----------


## Wraith

> Claire could ask "how do you know that", and the easiest answer would be "we got the reports of your time at the library". "We asked your teachers." "We saw your Linkedin." "You were tagged in photographs with social media users who are known as hard-working, so we assume you are too." (this last one was actual advice that was around some years ago, get tagged together with other good students).


"We cyber-stalked you" does not seem like an answer that would sooth a furious temper that was brought on by just the concept of being spied upon.  :Small Tongue: 

Similarly, I work in HR and I have to say that asking for references without the subject's express permission is at the very least VERY sketchy, and in my industry just straight-up illegal. It falls under GDPR and similar data-sharing laws.

Not that Cubetown couldn't break the law or defy social convention and reasonably claim ignorance, of course, but at that point we're running out of red flags and have had to mix in a few mauve to fill the gaps.  :Small Wink:  :Small Big Grin: 

The genuine answer seems to be swerving heavily towards the Director just being a Holistic Detective and, by reading a fast food menu and comparing it with the REM pattern of a one-legged centipede, has determined that Claire is The One. It gets Jeph out of a corner he's written himself into, but at the same time is very much a lazy deus ex machina.

----------


## Mechalich

> The genuine answer seems to be swerving heavily towards the Director just being a Holistic Detective and, by reading a fast food menu and comparing it with the REM pattern of a one-legged centipede, has determined that Claire is The One. It gets Jeph out of a corner he's written himself into, but at the same time is very much a lazy deus ex machina.


The bothersome part, to me, is that we the audience have absolutely no reason to believe Claire is the One. So far as we can tell, she doesn't possess any special talents at all. Sure, she passed her library science exams, but she was sufficiently worried about doing so that it's clear she's no a genius at library science. She doesn't have any sort of special organizational talents, she's not a weird savant, and she doesn't possess the sort of take-charge personality that someone organizing a completely new department with a highly eccentric staff should possess. Ultimately there is absolute no evidence that she'd be better for this job than any other recent library science grad chosen at random.

I mean, for comparison, imagine if the Director had reached out and offered Emily a job. That would make sense - Emily actually is an eccentric genius. 

In other news, the most recent strip has implied that Cubetown has at least one competent employee - their immigration lawyer. Ha! There it is, in a position where eccentric absurdity cannot be allowed to exist because it cannot be contained within Cubetown's bubble, a mysteriously competent person has been conjured into being offscreen.

----------


## tomandtish

> Sure, she passed her library science exams, but she was sufficiently worried about doing so that it's clear she's no a genius at library science.


Important not to confuse anxiety with lack of ability. The smartest person I personally know had perfect SATS, 5.0 undergrad AND grad GPA at MIT, and never scored less than an A on any of their work while there. 

And yet they'd have full bore panic attacks after finals were done, convinced that they had blown everything and were going to be kicked out.

And honestly we have no way of knowing how good at library science Claire is (or any of the others for that matter). Other than Martin training the three girls way back when, we've never really had stories exploring how well they do/don't do their library jobs. She could be the best there ever was, the worst in the world, or anywhere in between. 




> Similarly, I work in HR and I have to say that asking for references without the subject's express permission is at the very least VERY sketchy, and in my industry just straight-up illegal. It falls under GDPR and similar data-sharing laws.
> .


Yeah, I work for a state agency, and for MOST* positions in my area we ask the applicant for references. We will reach out to previous supervisors in the agency regarding work history, which doesn't require permission but applicants are informed that this may happen as part of the application process. 

*We have some highly sensitive positions which get the full FBI background check, but again applicants are told that this will happen.

----------


## Mechalich

> Important not to confuse anxiety with lack of ability. The smartest person I personally know had perfect SATS, 5.0 undergrad AND grad GPA at MIT, and never scored less than an A on any of their work while there. 
> 
> And yet they'd have full bore panic attacks after finals were done, convinced that they had blown everything and were going to be kicked out.


While this is true, someone who has full bore panic attacks on an exam they ace is absolutely the wrong personality to establish an new department in a chaotic working environment, so Claire is unsuited either way. 

Ultimately the QC cast features multiple eccentric geniuses that a superintelligence like the Director might have picked out for greater things and Claire is not one of them. In a related note, in checking the cast page regarding this, I discovered that Claire's entry now reads: "just the best, everyone adores Claire." I would submit that no, no they do not.

----------


## Vinyadan

> In a related note, in checking the cast page regarding this, I discovered that Claire's entry now reads: "just the best, everyone adores Claire." I would submit that no, no they do not.


I had been getting Luna vibes for a while...

----------


## Mordokai

> I had been getting Luna vibes for a while...


Luna? Somebody from another webcomic, I suppose?

----------


## Vinyadan

> Luna? Somebody from another webcomic, I suppose?


Yes, from Dominic Deegan. She was the main character's girlfriend and then wife, and, while not being a bad person per se (as far as I remember: DD could have some odd moments), she was very heavily pushed in a saccharinous "isn't she awesome?" sector by authorial intent, without being too convincing. She later got to be the holy saviour of a barbarian tribe of orcs by mysterious selection (a mix of being cursed before birth and being noticed and followed by a mysterious cabal of powerful people).

----------


## Wraith

> The bothersome part, to me, is that we the audience have absolutely no reason to believe Claire is the One.


We saw the giant fluorescent robot-jellyfish said so, _what more could you possibly need_!?!  :Small Tongue:  :Small Wink: 




> In a related note, in checking the cast page regarding this, I discovered that Claire's entry now reads: "just the best, everyone adores Claire." I would submit that no, no they do not.


I don't think this is new. It's been there long before this find-a-job arc started, and if pressed I'd say it's probably been there since she became a part of the primary cast around Marten's Dad's wedding.

----------


## Mordokai

> Yes, from Dominic Deegan. She was the main character's girlfriend and then wife, and, while not being a bad person per se (as far as I remember: DD could have some odd moments), she was very heavily pushed in a saccharinous "isn't she awesome?" sector by authorial intent, without being too convincing. She later got to be the holy saviour of a barbarian tribe of orcs by mysterious selection (a mix of being cursed before birth and being noticed and followed by a mysterious cabal of powerful people).


I never read DD. I know of it, but by name only. With that in mind...

From what you've told me, I can see why you compare Claire and Luna. I don't think Claire is at Luna's level... yet. But she certainly seems to be moving in the right direction. Will she get there? Time will tell and I will certainly hold you responsible for telling me when/if that happens  :Small Wink: 

I don't care much about Claire. I don't dislike her... but I most certainly don't like her. Or adore her, as Jeph would put it. These last few comics have been a mixed bag, as far as my reception of her goes. On one way, she has been very annoying, going against the authority(the name-eludes-me-now AI)... I've been taught, from my young days, never to do that.

And yet, I've since then learned that complacency is not something to be lauded. So she exhibits values I wish I could have. That makes her likable to me.

And at the same time, I kinda hate her for being able to break the mold, when I never could.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say... from my POW, she is turning out nicely. From what I see, she is still clearly an author's favourite, and while that is not something to laud... I can see myself warming up to her.

Let time and Jeph's handling of her tell how that will turn out.

----------


## The Glyphstone

Has it occurred to anyone else that the Director is very similar to Yay, as a essentially alien superintelligence trying to understand humans/regular people?

----------


## Vinyadan

I think it would be difficult to determine when Claire reaches Luna levels, because of the very different ways QC and DD handle slice-of-life. DD has mangaesque plots that alternate between saving the world and dealing with work and relationships, and a clear main character, Dominic. The problem is that Dominic is the sun around which the rest of the world (and Luna) rotates. His mom leads a university of magic, his brothers are the greatest healer and necromancer, the King of Hell is his mom's ex suitor and friend, the greatest swordsman is gay for him, he is the past Champion of Balance or somesuch, and so on.

QC is the opposite from this point of view. Marten was the earliest focus, but characters around him have organically had their own plots. There isn't a protagonist, even though Marten is the best equipped for this role (in the way a flaneur protagonist/narrator looks around and touches things with a very light hand; compare the _White Nights_ with his relationship with Faye.). In a way, Claire has already surpassed Luna, in that she's the current protagonist, and Marten is just an (emotionally important) appendage that tagged along; but the shift of focus is normal for QC. Luna and Dominic instead have this odd relationship where Dominic is constantly topping her. Luna becomes unfertile? It turns out that Dominic was so since birth. Luna turns into a Dragon? Well, guess what, now there are two Dominics shining with blinding light and wielding the power to destroy the world, because that's actually just the one Dominic going psychotic and that's how powerful his mind is!

About Claire per se, I think that her greatest weakness as a character is the fact that she doesn't seem to have a weakness. Clinton is smart and driven, but also a creepy fanboy and occasionally unfair. Marten is nice, easygoing, and handsome, but he won't do anything with his life, unless something falls in his lap or someone kickstarts him. Sven starts as an antagonist, a lucky prick that is suddenly hit by a boomerang. Dora has a business, but this forces her to difficult decisions and she also has her personal issues. Hannelore is lovely because of her constant fragility and her permanent effort to get over it (Tanned Hannelore hasn't had enough of a presence to consider her here). Faye is Faye. Angus, someone else with almost no weaknesses, had to deal with those of both Faye and Marigold.

Claire instead got her own description in the comic, made by herself: kick butt in a cute and non-threatening manner. Now, cutery is one of QC's staples. But Claire's quest is just that, believe in herself. Nothing more. But there isn't a journey through which she learns to do so. She just has these moments of anxiety, but she already believes in herself. She's scared of the future, but she already has the means to face it. So, where are the stakes?

This is why I find it pretty difficult to push her forward as an implicit (well, apparently, explicit) favourite. She probably is awesome from many points of view, but why should I want to see more of her _as a fictional character_, which is what she is?

----------


## Wraith

> Has it occurred to anyone else that the Director is very similar to Yay, as a essentially alien superintelligence trying to understand humans/regular people?


Honestly, I was feeling exactly the opposite. The Director lives alone in a basement, under water, in the dark, about as far away from the community as physically possible before leaving the planet. When it creates Moray, I don't get the feeling that its doing so to explore the human before it, rather that actually stopping what it is doing to interact directly is beneath it like a minor inconvenience.

Yay makes the tsundere pretence of not wanting to be around people because they actually crave attention and being contrary gets it. The Director, however, is pretty much indifferent - either it has 'solved' people and lost interest, or it never had any in the first place.




> This is why I find it pretty difficult to push her forward as an implicit (well, apparently, explicit) favourite. She probably is awesome from many points of view, but why should I want to see more of her as a fictional character, which is what she is?


Questionable Content has often been referred to as Queer Comfort Food, and I feel that recently its leaning into that harder than ever. Claire is a young LGBTQ+ person who has overcome problems (both real, trivial, an imagined) by being reasonably sensible and wanting it badly enough. It's the ultimate fantasy for young LGBTQ+ readers who are in the same position in their lives - adrift, facing hardship, and without obvious solutions - and find it comforting to think that things will just work out if they carry on doing what they're doing.

We're not the target audience. GitP forum-goers tend to be north of 30 years old (as far as I can tell) and we're no longer buying into such simple, romantic dreams.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Mechalich

> Questionable Content has often been referred to as Queer Comfort Food, and I feel that recently its leaning into that harder than ever. Claire is a young LGBTQ+ person who has overcome problems (both real, trivial, an imagined) by being reasonably sensible and wanting it badly enough. It's the ultimate fantasy for young LGBTQ+ readers who are in the same position in their lives - adrift, facing hardship, and without obvious solutions - and find it comforting to think that things will just work out if they carry on doing what they're doing.
> 
> We're not the target audience. GitP forum-goers tend to be north of 30 years old (as far as I can tell) and we're no longer buying into such simple, romantic dreams.


This makes sense. I suppose the problem, as I see it, is that Claire really hasn't overcome problems on her own, well, at all, she's just more or less had solutions handed to her with trivial amounts of effort. The whole Cubetown thing is the result of Claire being handed a dream job completely out of the blue. It's not even a job to which she daringly applied for and then wowed in an interview or something, but instead it's the equivalent of winning the lottery, just with a job and not cash. 

Personally, a story in which everything ultimately works out is fine. QC has definitely lost the edge it initially had over time and that's okay. However, the trick to something like this is that stories of this kind have to mask the string of benevolent interventions by the author behind a veil of verisimilitude or it feels cheap. Jeph can do that. For example, the relatively recent subplot in which Renee hooked up with old classmate Dan confined the 'comfort food' aspect to Dan having become a gym rat in the intervening years and therefore being at an unlikely attractiveness level. The rest of it - girl hooks up with an old classmate who's achieved success but doesn't have a girl because he's nerdy and lacks confidence - happens all the time. 

In fairness to Jeph, to some degree Claire's tale does make sense in the context of the universe he's created. QC is a near-future world in which there are benevolent AI superintelligences. That worl would be weird, and also it would be significantly nicer than ours. Unfortunately, because the minds of AI superintelligences are inherently a closed book to us - the Director literally has to create intermediaries just to talk to humans - this can cause breakdowns in narrative coherency. This is actually a common problem in science fiction where superintelligences exist.

----------


## Wraith

> This makes sense. I suppose the problem, as I see it, is that Claire really hasn't overcome problems on her own, well, at all, she's just more or less had solutions handed to her with trivial amounts of effort. The whole Cubetown thing is the result of Claire being handed a dream job completely out of the blue. It's not even a job to which she daringly applied for and then wowed in an interview or something, but instead it's the equivalent of winning the lottery, just with a job and not cash.


The way I see it is that Jeph has had Claire experience challenges, but for whatever reason - inability to write a good story, too scared of alienating his target audience, or just not really knowing how far to push the envelope - he's mostly just referenced them and moved on without explaining why they're a problem or what anguish they caused, nor has he shown how there was real triumph in succeeding through them.

For example, Claire grew up trans. She's estranged from her father. Her younger brother is awkward and annoying. Her mother is well-meaning, but sometimes pushy and eccentric. She had to intern in a weird library where, contrary to her own nature, no one took anything seriously. She had to study hard for stressful exams. She struggled to get a job in her field. She ended up slightly humiliated by having to take a low-level service job to tide her over. These are all challenges on the road of her life, and many of them are familiar enough that we have all experienced at least some of them that we can relate. I think that QC's main audience are people who are living lives where they are experiencing most of these things, or equivalents.

The problem is, Jeph hasn't done anything with them to show why they're a challenge and how overcoming them took effort and created jeopardy. Claire is trans, but everyone we've ever seen in the comic is accepting and supportive of that - it's wish-fulfillment for how some readers would like to be treated, I'm sure, but it leaves the comic without conflict and therefore a satisfactory conclusion. Her exams were stressful, but she pretty much aced them and immediately got over it after a long period of not mentioning it at all, so the lasting effects seem minor and negligible.

It's like he's written a list of things that could have been interesting to explore and write about, added them to Claire's bio in passing, and has left us to fill in the blanks as to what that actually does for her character. A reader who is also young, LGBTQ, wannabe-academic who works part-time in a coffee shop - the sort of person which, the internet tells me, exclusively make up the denizens of tumblr  :Small Wink:  - can look at that and fill the blanks with a long and rich personal journey.

We - jaded millenials that we are - look at it and go, "where's the rest of the story?". I don't expect Jeph to make Claire wallow in misery arc after arc to 'prove' that she is having a rough time, but I think QC would be richer if it found a happy medium wherein (for example) Claire's long and arduous hunt for a job were more than a handful of comics about how frustrated she was to then be handed a position working for Dora at nearly no notice.

Claire isn't the only one, of course, I'm just using her as the example as its relevant to the current arc.

----------


## Vinyadan

I think it's also that QC has the wrong setup to talk about worklife. Coffee of Doom was fun, as long as Faye was there, because it was completely unrealistic. People were doing the opposite of what they were supposed to, and somehow the place soared. People got hired without having asked, and so on. It was the sort of depiction of a workplace you can find in the Simpsons.

But then things got _serious_. Faye's firing brought a wind of realism and seriousness: actions have consequences now. Unfortunately, the actual realism stopped at the alcoholism, but the seriousness remained, while wanting to live with the fiat silliness that kept undermining it. So the apparently whimsical robofighting actually had a social background (this is where people with no other chance go: it's illegal, but you can't take it away!) and then come roboslavery and robotorture with Bubbles and Yay (an anime villain). And then the serious workings of Union Robotics, complete with taxes and flying butts (which sounds like it should have been funnier, but it was unfortunately shallowly grounded). And, in the meantime, Claire always was a very serious person, and Union Bakery had an actual boss and rather whimsical employees (remember "Renee why are you potentially causing sexual harassment suits?!"). Then Roko's conversion and social service non-profit.

Roko's job is actually similar to Claire's exams. We don't see the moment of truth. We don't see Roko talk to the admin board of a company, or Claire take her exam. Not necessarily the worst choice, since I don't think it's Jeph's field, but not the best story.

(I actually think that this also has something to do with Coffee of Doom. QC was about socialising, not about jobs. CoD was a place for socialising. The apartment was another place where more socialising occurred. You meet the usuals, and talk about daily life, hear about the job, but almost never actually go to your friend's workplace or lessons or exams, same for the reader, who reads a recap from said friend.)

Anyway, the point is that QC was funnier when it didn't try to be serious or boringly realistic about stuff, and its seriousness still ends up being normally undermined by random worldbuilding jokes.

Props for the last page, however. I thought it was very nice and well-placed and finally touched some important topics that aren't just world-building, and also showed the "world of magic" advanced AI could open (although I can't help but feel that the entities called Moray would feel like a nightmare to us humans, or we would quickly derubricate them to "not a person").

----------


## Wraith

> We don't see Roko talk to the admin board of a company, or Claire take her exam. Not necessarily the worst choice, since I don't think it's Jeph's field, but not the best story.


We did see Claire take her exam. It took less than a day, with an hour for lunch, and was treated as a joke because anyone can just walk in and sit down at a desk without being challenged by a Professor, or even an invigilator.  :Small Tongue: 

Not to be dismissive of any Librarian's hard work, but I have a crap humanities degree and would sometimes sit multiple exams in the same day, then hand in coursework at the end of the week. I'd have been _delighted_ to sit just one exam over one day and being done with it!  :Small Big Grin: 




> Props for the last page, however. I thought it was very nice and well-placed and finally touched some important topics that aren't just world-building, and also showed the "world of magic" advanced AI could open (although I can't help but feel that the entities called Moray would feel like a nightmare to us humans, or we would quickly derubricate them to "not a person").


Real talk; is Moray-44 dead now?

AI are sentient beings, currently fighting for their civil rights, and this one had a name, a personality, and self-awareness. Now its just gone, and Moray-45 will not be the same being, because although similar it will contain the absorbed memory of having been Moray-44 and then being dissolved and remade.

Its literally a disposable lifeform, brought out at the whim of the Director to perform an unspecified task to the sole benefit of the Director and to then be discarded without consequence when done and _oh my god Claire how do you not see that and immediately recontextualise the bullsh*t job that you have been offered!?!_

----------


## Vinyadan

Yup, I saw it simply as an existential condition, but it's pretty difficult to reconcile with the "human rights" angle. Moray is more like a chicken, who has to die to perform its function of being yummy (while she needs to be digested for the director to gain a better understanding of what has happened). I wonder if the comic will dwell on the legality of this. Maybe it will turn out that AIs have full rights in the US, but none in Canada, and the Director had the facility built there exactly to have complete power over his underlings. Maybe he's evil, maybe he was duped by the people who financed this project and who made sure he had some moral coping mechanism, for maximum efficiency.

----------


## Mechalich

The Moray's are an example of digital copying of consciousness in restricted form from a pre-existing template. This is what Eclipse Phase and certain other science fiction settings that explore this space tend to call 'forking.' The Morays would represent beta or gamma forks - limited cognition and restrictions on 'free will' of the Director, a superintelligence. They are arguably 'not people' even though they possess human-level intelligence, but exactly how this is defined is extremely dicey and also involves the tricky act of identifying 'the self' and similar sticky concepts.

There was actually a thread about this only a few months back. It's complex mess that tends to push every possible ethical button. On the list of concepts QC should have avoided, it might well be number one.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

Had to look up what the hell "fruit leather" was. I assumed the author was making things up so he could repeat a phrase over and over, but nope. Apparently he just discovered a new thing and wanted it in the comic. I hope this doesn't become A Thing with the characters moving to Canada (or whatever the exact legal situation is there, I don't really care), where I have to spend as much time Googling a term as I spent reading the comic. When it was all band names, I could just understand it was all bands I hadn't heard about, but if it's a bunch of Canadian-specific cultural stuff, I'm gonna wind up feeling stupid for not being from Canada.

----------


## Mechalich

> Had to look up what the hell "fruit leather" was. I assumed the author was making things up so he could repeat a phrase over and over, but nope. Apparently he just discovered a new thing and wanted it in the comic. I hope this doesn't become A Thing with the characters moving to Canada (or whatever the exact legal situation is there, I don't really care), where I have to spend as much time Googling a term as I spent reading the comic. When it was all band names, I could just understand it was all bands I hadn't heard about, but if it's a bunch of Canadian-specific cultural stuff, I'm gonna wind up feeling stupid for not being from Canada.


You can buy fruit leather at Walmart. It's nothing especially Canadian. It's become more common as a snack in recent years, with 'no-nut zones' being a significant consideration. She offers a granola bar first, and then fruit leather, which implies she interacts with enough people with nut allergies that it's a useful backup.

The thing that bugs me about this strip is everything involving her carrying 'squirt gun' which...I just can't even.

----------


## Wraith

I've heard of fruit leather, but that is possibly the least appealing version of the name that could have been used. Fruit/sweet jerky is barely better, but at least recognisable.




> The thing that bugs me about this strip is everything involving her carrying 'squirt gun' which...I just can't even.


Maybe Moray is water-soluble, like the aliens from the movie, _Alien Nation_? The only thing standing between us and a squishy, boobular version of the Grey Goo scenario is Ethan and her super-soaker.

----------


## DavidSh

> I've heard of fruit leather, but that is possibly the least appealing version of the name that could have been used. Fruit/sweet jerky is barely better, but at least recognisable.


Is _fruit/sweet jerky_ used as a name in Britain?  I've certainly never heard it in the US.

----------


## theangelJean

> I've heard of fruit leather, but that is possibly the least appealing version of the name that could have been used. Fruit/sweet jerky is barely better, but at least recognisable.





> Is _fruit/sweet jerky_ used as a name in Britain?  I've certainly never heard it in the US.


I only know of one brand available here in Aus, and I seem to only know it by the brand-name: Roll-ups. Then again, they've been discredited as a "health food" here because of the high sugar/low fibre, so I haven't looked at whether there are more brands available in about a decade. Might be more by now.

----------


## Wraith

> Is _fruit/sweet jerky_ used as a name in Britain?  I've certainly never heard it in the US.


As the distressingly vague, off-brand version of Roll-up, like theangeljean. It's not common as a snack food, but it's definitely one I've come across more often than fruit leather, presumably because_ who in their right mind would eat 'leather'_?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Willie the Duck

> Is _fruit/sweet jerky_ used as a name in Britain?  I've certainly never heard it in the US.


At least in the 90s-early-00s*, if you bought a food dehydrator from Ronco-matic or whatever, they would list fruit leather in their recipe book/'what you  can make with this' guide, so as not to run afoul of Betty Crocker's name-brand product**.
*when I had one to make low-weight camping food
**I assume everyone in the US knows these things as 'fruit roll ups'




> The thing that bugs me about this strip is everything involving her carrying 'squirt gun' which...I just can't even.


Jeph is trying to make the incompetent security officer more of a mall cop than a easily flustered and impulsive gun-toting cop.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> You can buy fruit leather at Walmart. It's nothing especially Canadian. It's become more common as a snack in recent years, with 'no-nut zones' being a significant consideration.


The packaging on that looks like it'd be found near the snacks that new parents buy to shut their screaming kids up, so I'll have to keep an eye out next time I'm near an accursed Walmart. Of course, if he'd called it "dried fruit strips" or something actually descriptive, I might not have assumed it was a foreign thing. Calling it "leather" makes it sound super unappealing, whether that's a common term or not.

----------


## DavidSh

> It's not common as a snack food, but it's definitely one I've come across more often than fruit leather, presumably because_ who in their right mind would eat 'leather'_?


Leather is what you start eating after your ship has been becalmed for long enough that everything intended as food has been eaten, and before you start drawing lots.  Or your mountain outpost has been snowed in similarly long enough.

----------


## Delicious Taffy

> Leather is what you start eating after your ship has been becalmed for long enough that everything intended as food has been eaten, and before you start drawing lots.  Or your mountain outpost has been snowed in similarly long enough.


Well, when you put it that way, now I _definitely_ wanna try it. I can name each...slice? Sliver? Strip? Sheet? Whatever the technical term is, I can pretend they're my cabinmates.

----------


## Wraith

What I'm getting from today's comic is that Claire is no longer upset about the possibility of being spied upon, because the Director admits to spying on _someone else_ instead of her. I also can't help but notice that Evan isn't wearing a body-cam on her vest. She is however an AI, so the "body" in this case might be entirely more personal? That's... worrying.

This is not an improvement. This is Claire willing to accept other peoples' invasion because she now knows how absurdly well she's being paid to turn a blind eye to it.

I refer you all back to my theory about Cubetown being evil; because it's off-shore where laws are lax, and therefore only people who need lax laws will want to hang out.

Also, why are the Head of Security and the Head of HSR arranging pillows? Is there no one in housekeeping between 'janitor' and 'Director of Department'? Why not?  :Small Confused:

----------


## Gez

> As the distressingly vague, off-brand version of Roll-up, like theangeljean. It's not common as a snack food, but it's definitely one I've come across more often than fruit leather, presumably because_ who in their right mind would eat 'leather'_?


It's apparently a traditional Armenian thing, so I'd suppose something got lost in translation at some point...

----------


## theNater

> What I'm getting from today's comic is that Claire is no longer upset about the possibility of being spied upon, because the Director admits to spying on _someone else_ instead of her.


Or she made the reasonable assumption that Evan consented to the bodycam as part of the security gig.

----------


## Vinyadan

> What I'm getting from today's comic is that Claire is no longer upset about the possibility of being spied upon, because the Director admits to spying on _someone else_ instead of her. I also can't help but notice that Evan isn't wearing a body-cam on her vest. She is however an AI, so the "body" in this case might be entirely more personal? That's... worrying.
> 
> This is not an improvement. This is Claire willing to accept other peoples' invasion because she now knows how absurdly well she's being paid to turn a blind eye to it.
> 
> I refer you all back to my theory about Cubetown being evil; because it's off-shore where laws are lax, and therefore only people who need lax laws will want to hang out.


I think you have it backwaards. Jeph's idea probably is that active police bodycams increase police accountability, because they track all the policeman does while on duty. Moray offering to show video from the bodycam should show how transparent and accountable law enforcement/security activity is on AI Island (although to me it sounds like a chip to convince a prized acquisition to stay). It's more techno-utopia than dystopia. 

On the other hand, the door is obviously open for abuse of such recordings. The simple fact that the cam isn't visible is bad news, because you -- the citizen -- don't know you are being recorded (some countries have very restrictive laws concerning this, or require that you clearly signal the recording, give info about how it's going to be used, who will see it, and how long it will be preserved, with clearly set limits). Hiding a bodycam is also contrary to common practice, because a clearly visible body cam is also there to protect the cop, since an aggressor or obstructor knows that he would have his actions recorded.

But I think that these are matters of bad implementation in the writing, and not the author's intent.

----------


## KillianHawkeye

The squirt gun thing is the first thing to actually make some sense about Evan, since I assume that security in this place is more akin to herding cats and keeping Moray off the tables than actual security.

----------


## Wraith

> Or she made the reasonable assumption that Evan consented to the bodycam as part of the security gig.


Nonsense, it's far more fun to throw out randomly sinister assertations in bad faith, what else is the internet even for?  :Small Wink: 

In seriousness, you're obviously right, in the real world. I just it a bit frustrated because part of this whole mess was Evan saying that she has "no reason for you to believe me" when it turns out that she has a camera proving her innocence... When she clearing isn't wearing a camera... And didn't mention it to Claire and Marten who therefore WERE being recorded by a hidden device without their knowledge, which was what the implication was to begin with...

This entire explanation makes less sense than the original problem, and I would like it to be better, please.

----------


## VoxRationis

> It's apparently a traditional Armenian thing, so I'd suppose something got lost in translation at some point...


The term makes sense to me. I mean, a piece of fruit leather (and I grew up in a house with a dehydrator, so my mother would make it from time to time) looks rather like a piece of leather, especially if it's home-dried (which tends to be dryer, darker, and tougher than some of the store-bought varieties, which rely on plastic packaging for longevity). It's like "oat milk," a term which I have seen rather amusing footage of hysterically angry dairy farmers decrying: the name comes from a superficial visual similarity, not from an assertion that they are alike in all properties.

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## Gez

> On the other hand, the door is obviously open for abuse of such recordings. The simple fact that the cam isn't visible is bad news, because you -- the citizen -- don't know you are being recorded (some countries have very restrictive laws concerning this, or require that you clearly signal the recording, give info about how it's going to be used, who will see it, and how long it will be preserved, with clearly set limits). Hiding a bodycam is also contrary to common practice, because a clearly visible body cam is also there to protect the cop, since an aggressor or obstructor knows that he would have his actions recorded.


They are robot people. The cameras may perfectly well be simply Evan's eyes.

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## Mechalich

> I refer you all back to my theory about Cubetown being evil; because it's off-shore where laws are lax, and therefore only people who need lax laws will want to hang out.


That's not how that 'off-shore' works. Cubetown appears to be well within the territorial waters of Nova Scotia. It is just another part of Canada and falls under the legal jurisdiction of either Halifax or one of the smaller towns along the bay. Evan not being an armed officer means it cannot be its own municipality, because a town would have a police department, so legally it's just a really big office park. This does beg the question of why they aren't being continually questioned by the RCMP about all those strange explosions. 

Of course, it's unclear if Jeph realizes this, since he seems to believe that Cubetown lies in sufficiently deep water that the Director can be found in the midnight zone, which would require it to be hundreds of kilometers offshore (or the Director has a teleporting elevator). 




> The squirt gun thing is the first thing to actually make some sense about Evan, since I assume that security in this place is more akin to herding cats and keeping Moray off the tables than actual security.


Here's the thing. First rule of being an unarmed law enforcement officer: don't pretend to be an armed law enforcement officer. That is an incredibly stupid way to get shot. Evan should not have _anything_ remotely gun-shaped on her hips.

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## Vinyadan

> Nonsense, it's far more fun to throw out randomly sinister assertations in bad faith, what else is the internet even for? 
> 
> In seriousness, you're obviously right, in the real world. I just it a bit frustrated because part of this whole mess was Evan saying that she has "no reason for you to believe me" when it turns out that she has a camera proving her innocence... When she clearing isn't wearing a camera... And didn't mention it to Claire and Marten who therefore WERE being recorded by a hidden device without their knowledge, which was what the implication was to begin with...
> 
> This entire explanation makes less sense than the original problem, and I would like it to be better, please.


Yes, this is the biggest writing problem with this scene: the catalyst is someone being unreasonably incapable of explaining himself. Evanescence also seems to completely lack the characterial attributes adequate for her job, while Claire was only chosen because she has the right character. Maybe it will turn out that Evanescence is a affected by a new shade of neurodivergence or psychological issue not yet seen in the comic, and that the Director actually leant from his own mistakes. 

Or maybe Evanescence is actually great, in a different way. It could even be, "The Director calculated that having Evanescence on board will reduce wold hunger by 1.2% this year!"




> They are robot people. The cameras may perfectly well be simply Evan's eyes.


You aren't wrong, but I still think it's a problem if authority records people without warning or agreement or explicit laws. Authority here can also be your boss.

To be honest, now I wonder what Evanescence can really record. Hearbeats? Infrared? Skin hydration? Alcohol level? Profile people by iris? DNA collection? I don't mean that she's been doing that, but QC levels of technology would make all of this possible.

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## theNater

> You aren't wrong, but I still think it's a problem if authority records people without warning or agreement or explicit laws.


Hang on, can't AI memories be externally accessed?  I'm pretty sure they can, which means you know you're being recorded any time you talk to an AI (or they wouldn't be able to remember you).

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## Vinyadan

> Hang on, can't AI memories be externally accessed?  I'm pretty sure they can, which means you know you're being recorded any time you talk to an AI (or they wouldn't be able to remember you).


We did see something of this sort in Bubbles's case. But I think there is a serious amount of lacking worldbuilding, on multiple levels.

The first level is how the recording would happen and how a personal memory would form. Do all AIs have perfect photographic memories? Would that even be desireable? Or do they work like we do, with a complex system of selection and different standards for long and short memory? What about the odd effects that emotional states have on memories, suppressing, altering, or even inventing memories?

Question number two is accessibility. Assuming AIs have personhood, is it OK if their memories are accessible? Wouldn't they use encryption, to make sure their memories or even just thoughts are unavailable to outsiders?

If we assume that memories are encrypted, there would need to be a difference between recordings made for personhood use (human-like memory, or just stuff that makes them who they are), personal use (like recording something with your smartphone) and professional/administrative use (recording something for your job), possibly with different access permissions and encryptions.

Anyway, any reader can make up his own theories, because I don't think the comic has explained any of this.

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## Rodin

> Yes, this is the biggest writing problem with this scene: the catalyst is someone being unreasonably incapable of explaining himself. Evanescence also seems to completely lack the characterial attributes adequate for her job, while Claire was only chosen because she has the right character. Maybe it will turn out that Evanescence is a affected by a new shade of neurodivergence or psychological issue not yet seen in the comic, and that the Director actually leant from his own mistakes.


I'm still confused as to why Claire apologized.  

Initial situation Claire is presented with: Evan was sweeping Claire's apartment for bugs, and rather than react like a normal person she hid on the balcony.  That's not something Claire should be apologizing for, nor is wanting to speak to a manager about it.

Alternative situation that could have been happening since "sweeping for bugs" makes no sense:  Evan was _planting_ bugs.  That's not something Claire should be apologizing for, nor is wanting to speak to a manager about it.

What actually happened:  Evan was obsessive-compulsively tidying the room (which is not in any way her job), freaked out and hid rather than react like a normal person, then lied about it with the sweeping for bugs story.  That's not something Claire should be apologizing for, nor is wanting to speak to a manager about it.

Somehow Claire has gotten the blame and been declared a "Karen", and I'm _damned_ if I know how.  The sequence is so badly written I'm almost in awe.

Also, how did "I want to speak to the director because everyone is incompetent" become "I'm happy with being hired specifically because everyone is incompetent"?  

I don't feel like anybody in this story has acted like an actual human being.  The giant super-advanced jellyfish is the most believable character, and that's scary.

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## georgie_leech

Or, and hear me out here, characters that have Anxiety tend to apologize for things they shouldn't apologize for? You know, like real people often do?

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## Wraith

> Of course, it's unclear if Jeph realizes this, since he seems to believe that Cubetown lies in sufficiently deep water that the Director can be found in the midnight zone, which would require it to be hundreds of kilometers offshore (or the Director has a teleporting elevator).


I think this is the correct answer. Jeph doesn't want the audience to be thinking deeply about his plot or his characters... except when he does. Sometimes the difference can only be inferred in hindsight, and this is one of those examples where "off shore" just literally means "there's water between Cubetown and the nearest Walmart"; similarly, "lax laws" just means "Jeph doesn't know or care enough to invoke them because doing so might get in the way of the story he's telling". 

In some comics it'd be a refreshingly honest and direct approach, but in QC it looks more like a regression compared to the politics and opinions expressed in previous years where such things did matter.




> Somehow Claire has gotten the blame and been declared a "Karen", and I'm damned if I know how. The sequence is so badly written I'm almost in awe.


I think there's two parts to it. One is that Jeph admitted he wrote Claire as being 'too angry' in how he presented her, like she was supposed to be somewhat annoyed but was depicted as snapping at Marten to stop talking, stuff like that. To some extent, this feels like Claire is apologising for Jeph's mistake, if you follow.

The other is that in nearly every previous arc - with the sometimes exception of interacting with her brother - Claire is unfailingly nice to everyone. She tolerated Emily messing up her hair, she cracked silly puns with Brun, she was polite and careful when interacting with the Ominous Black Slab, and her worst display of bad temper was to feebly kick over a waste paper basket and then immediately apologise for her 'outburst'. Claire is a *nice* person.

With that in mind, also consider her interactions with AIs to date. She lives with Pintsize, has Bubbles as her confidant, was sympathetic to May's plight, and thought that Yay was adorable, a mix of situations that basically primed her for the simple fact; AIs are morons. Some of them are pretty good, but in general they are all woefully naive and lacking in social skills, sense of purpose, and the ability to refrain from annoyingly infantile outbursts. She more or less said as much in her interview with Moray - I think that Jeph did a pretty good job of depicting Moray as being annoying, incompetent, and had Claire react with increasing suspicion and frustration but NOT being rude or insulting. I think it was clear that Claire knew AIs well enough to realise what she was getting into, and stated that she was prepared to give it a try, and just put up with their wacky shenanigans.

Her reaction to Evan, however, was very much depicted as lacking any kind of... mercy, I suppose is the word? Evan did something kind of dumb, but ultimately quite harmless, gave a plausible (if dumb) sounding reason and a conscientious apology for being a nuisance.... And for this, Claire was prepared to storm out of the town, not before insisting that no talking was allowed and to tear a piece off the Director. This isn't 'nice' Claire, or patient Claire, or 'I know what AIs are like and this is honestly quite mild' Claire - this is a depiction of how she reacts to one incident of someone in a superior position in the hierarchy (for the moment, anyway - presumably Head of Security and Head of Research would be roughly equal?) making a mistake, caused by their mental capacity, and automatically assuming the worst and demanding some kind of atonement.

Obviously, one's own measure of how deeply Evan had transgressed may differ even before it was brought to light that she really was innocent of any wrong-doing - I personally think that an AI saying "sorry, you came in unexpectedly and I panicked" is a non-event by the standards that have been set elsewhere - but I think that Claire's lack of tolerance is very much out of character and an extreme reaction for someone who, until that point, was noted for not being assertive, rude, demanding or aggressive, and especially not with strangers.

In which case, hers was the over-reaction. Even if you agree that going home and/or complaining to the Director was reasonable, the way she spoke at Evan came across as like kicking a particularly nervous puppy. Anyone who has worked in the customer service industry probably has similarly relevant war-stories to tell, and can see Evan's side of the story with a great deal of sympathy. I know I do, on both accounts.  :Small Tongue: 




> Or, and hear me out here, characters that have Anxiety tend to apologize for things they shouldn't apologize for? You know, like real people often do?


If we want to get technical, she didn't actually apologise - she just said that she _should_, and explained that the misunderstanding had been explained to her, then the subject changed to pillows....  :Small Wink:  :Small Tongue:

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## Vinyadan

I think there's also the question of bargaining power that is obvious in such a situation, but the comic doesn't seem to consider. In the real world, this is what I would see: Claire wants to leverage all she can to get the best possible deal. She's already in a good position, because the board seems desperate to find someone -- anyone -- to fill the position. She then finds an employee doing a big oops, and twists the situation into an accusation against the employer, so that the bar for keeping her there can be raised considerably. The employee, who is aware that the director wants her hired, starts panicking (what is his boss going to say?), all calculated by Claire, since the power relationship is pretty clear, and offers a direct meeting with the leadership. And guess what: being overly aggressive towards your future boss would case him to stiffen and reject you, so Claire is remarkably nicer and mollified when she talks to him. The Director however communicates with Claire in a much more personal and understandable way, one that suggests me he's pretty much telling her "I'm offering you a place in my team, the management team: not with my doofus base underlings. So it's not a problem if you can't relate to them, because they are not your people. We are above them." So he' offering her status. And then they discuss terms.

Except Claire in the following page is in awe at the good terms (you're not supposed to say that!). So I don't think they discussed or bargained about them, Moray just made a list.

By the way, this depends on the quality of the local job market, but a company being desperate for someone to fill a position can actually be a red flag (why did the position become empty? Did they make the last employee run away?)

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## VoxRationis

You know, I'll bet those Moray bodies are like magnets for orcas, come to think of it. I'll bet that gel resembles fat in how it responds to echolocation; Moray-42069 would have resembled a nice, plump seal if water visibility was low.

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## Wraith

If this little arc doesn't end with Claire and Marten heading home just as Moray-44 gets dragged into a jet engine, or hit by a car, or otherwise splattered by a falling piano or something, I am going to feel very, very disappointed.

I don't even have particular vitriol for her, I just think it would be a funny punchline that all of the Morays are cursed to a Loony Tunes-style demise.  :Small Big Grin:

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