# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 5e/Next > DM Help is this 'fair'?  (lich w/ globe of invulnerability)

## da newt

A party of 6 or 7 lvl 14-16 PCs are about to be going up against a lich (they don't know he's a lich, but they know he's an evil wizard).  They are in his tower and have fought to get to him so they are a little down on resources, and they know he knows they are there (he's been talking crap via an illusion of himself and is aware of their progress).  In order to get to him they need to use a teleportation ring.  2 barbarian, rogue, ranger, wizard, cleric, bard.  

He'll have a couple greater zombies to help him out (2/round for a max of 8 total), he's got his phylactery stashed safely far away so he doesn't care if they 'defeat' him, and he has legendary actions and lair actions.  

Is there any reason I shouldn't have him upcast globe of invulnerability when he knows they are ready to teleport to him?  He really wants to make the wizard feel inferior.    

The only way they'll be able to break the globe is dispell magic and a roll of 19+ or damage him via mundane attacks and break his concentration (+10), right?  

I figure they'll triumph eventually, but this should give him the best chance to prolong the fight, poke away at them, and talk crap the whole time (he's ALL EGO).

Thoughts?

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## Sparky McDibben

Sounds OK. Just be ready for that wizard PC to be tearing the lich's lair apart looking for their spellbook.

Are there clues to this cat being a lich somewhere in the lair?

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## stoutstien

They could also just push/shove/grapple the lich out of the globe.

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## 1Pirate

Could you clarify, do they need the teleportation ring to get next to him, or do you mean to get to(pardon the video game term) the "boss fight"?

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## ProsecutorGodot

As far as tactics go, that's reasonably tame. You're not adjusting the spell list it seems and he's not doing something crazy like pre-cast invisibility and just nuking the Wizard he wants to shame with PWK, as you say he's been carefully watching the party so it's not out of the question that he's sussed out the Wizards general hardiness.

It sounds like it has the potential to be a difficult encounter but not completely one sided, it gives the martials a way to interact though they're more likely to just kill him than to break his concentration. Lich are pretty frail, he might not even last long enough to spawn all of his greater zombies.

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## YoungestGruff

That's also a pretty big party. I say that you play as dirty as the statblock allows, and the lich will still be fighting for their life.

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## Rafaelfras

Yes do it. I have a big party at 16 now as well and can assure you if you don't be careful they will kill the lich in 1-2 rounds. So really play up those defenses. If he know they are coming I suggest that you precast every defensive spell he has so you can focus on offense and put pressure on the party

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## da newt

The only way to get to the top floor / demiplane of the wizard tower is via the teleportation circle (it requires an action to use - one PC at a time).

The greater zombies pull themselves together from a pile of junk and corpses 2/turn (no action cost by lich, they just happen).

Yeah - the party should prevail, but I'm hoping to make it last a while and feel like it might go badly, but in the end a party of 6 or 7 high tier 3 PCs should stomp this guy (for now, he's knows it's just temporary and doesn't really care - but he wants to make the WIZ feel like he's comparably inept).

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## tomjon

If he has access to wish I give him anti life shell. Otherwise action economy is going to make real short work of him.

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## da newt

He's got a Lair Action to halve all his damage and pass the other half to a PC and the shield spell, so he ought to last a couple rounds ...

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## kazaryu

> A party of 6 or 7 lvl 14-16 PCs are about to be going up against a lich (they don't know he's a lich, but they know he's an evil wizard).  They are in his tower and have fought to get to him so they are a little down on resources, and they know he knows they are there (he's been talking crap via an illusion of himself and is aware of their progress).  In order to get to him they need to use a teleportation ring.  2 barbarian, rogue, ranger, wizard, cleric, bard.  
> 
> He'll have a couple greater zombies to help him out (2/round for a max of 8 total), he's got his phylactery stashed safely far away so he doesn't care if they 'defeat' him, and he has legendary actions and lair actions.  
> 
> Is there any reason I shouldn't have him upcast globe of invulnerability when he knows they are ready to teleport to him?  He really wants to make the wizard feel inferior.    
> 
> The only way they'll be able to break the globe is dispell magic and a roll of 19+ or damage him via mundane attacks and break his concentration (+10), right?  
> 
> I figure they'll triumph eventually, but this should give him the best chance to prolong the fight, poke away at them, and talk crap the whole time (he's ALL EGO).
> ...


considering the globe is immobiale, i.e. doesn't move with the lich, they have plenty of tactical options to deal with it. you're fine. possibly even underestimating the party

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## Slipjig

Go all out, the main thing that potentially makes this challenging is the "one-PC-enters-the-fight-per-round" thing.  Try to telegraph to the PCs that they should expect to be in a fight the second they step through.

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## BerzerkerUnit

Give him Armor of Agathys at 5th level, wait for a PC to go ham on him in melee, carefully track their HP and if they drop below 50, use PWK on them. Ideally, try to time it when the Wizard has failed to counterspell something else.

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## JNAProductions

> Give him Armor of Agathys at 5th level, wait for a PC to go ham on him in melee, carefully track their HP and if they drop below 50, use PWK on them. Ideally, try to time it when the Wizard has failed to counterspell something else.


How would the lich know exactly when their HP reaches the threshold?

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## da newt

This particular goober doesn't know PWK - he's got psychic scream instead (but he plans to use his top slot to upcast his globe of invulnerability).  

This is AL, so it's more about making the players feel like they might not triumph, but perma-killing PCs isn't really the goal.  This is just this week's foe - not some BBEG that they've been working up to for a long time / end of a story arc or anything.  He's scary, but also he knows this really doesn't matter - he'll reform ...

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## Thunderous Mojo

The Encounter as proposed is a Deadly Encounter for a 14th level group with 6 members.

Against a 7 member group, with some PCs being a higher level than 14th, the proposed Encounter would be between the Hard and Deadly Difficulty Levels.

It should be fine.

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## Particle_Man

To give a meta clue see if you can have the lich drop some Xylon lines.

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## PhoenixPhyre

> The Encounter as proposed is a Deadly Encounter for a 14th level group with 6 members.
> 
> Against a 7 member group, with some PCs being a higher level than 14th, the proposed Encounter would be between the Hard and Deadly Difficulty Levels.
> 
> It should be fine.


Yeah. Liches only have 80 HP and crap for AC. I had a level 9 party one-round an ithillich. No particular optimization other than a boon that let him shield bash as a bonus action for 1d4 bludgeoning, just a paladin who managed to sweet-talk his way into melee range before combat started. And then won initiative. Turn one, paladin goes. Crit, highest-level smite. Good dice roll. Second attack...normal hit + smite. Third attack (shield)--crit + smite. 80+ HP, turn one, round one. If it hadn't been "special" with some effectively mythic actions that let it get away and heal (but also let the party chase it), it would have been a tremendously anti-climactic battle.

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## ProsecutorGodot

> Yeah. Liches only have 80 HP and crap for AC. I had a level 9 party one-round an ithillich. No particular optimization other than a boon that let him shield bash as a bonus action for 1d4 bludgeoning, just a paladin who managed to sweet-talk his way into melee range before combat started. And then won initiative. Turn one, paladin goes. Crit, highest-level smite. Good dice roll. Second attack...normal hit + smite. Third attack (shield)--crit + smite. 80+ HP, turn one, round one. If it hadn't been "special" with some effectively mythic actions that let it get away and heal (but also let the party chase it), it would have been a tremendously anti-climactic battle.


They've got 135 HP, it's still not a lot though. You might be confusing their HP with a Demilich, but then the AC comment wouldn't make sense as the Demilich has a much higher AC of 20 vs the Lich's 17.

And yea, Paladin's can wreak havoc on a solo encounter, I remember back in my CoS campaign the party Paladin got a series of crits and evaporated Strahd.

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## PhoenixPhyre

> They've got 135 HP, it's still not a lot though. You might be confusing their HP with a Demilich, but then the AC comment wouldn't make sense as the Demilich has a much higher AC of 20 vs the Lich's 17.
> 
> And yea, Paladin's can wreak havoc on a solo encounter, I remember back in my CoS campaign the party Paladin got a series of crits and evaporated Strahd.


Oh yea. Remembered the HP wrong. But it still definitely happened with an ithillich. Didn't help that that paladin was a halfling dexadin and the player had stupidly hot dice (rolling using the VTT's roller, so no cheating there). Wasn't the only time he had 2 or 3 crits in a turn.

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## Keravath

> A party of 6 or 7 lvl 14-16 PCs are about to be going up against a lich (they don't know he's a lich, but they know he's an evil wizard).  They are in his tower and have fought to get to him so they are a little down on resources, and they know he knows they are there (he's been talking crap via an illusion of himself and is aware of their progress).  In order to get to him they need to use a teleportation ring.  2 barbarian, rogue, ranger, wizard, cleric, bard.  
> 
> He'll have a couple greater zombies to help him out (2/round for a max of 8 total), he's got his phylactery stashed safely far away so he doesn't care if they 'defeat' him, and he has legendary actions and lair actions.  
> 
> Is there any reason I shouldn't have him upcast globe of invulnerability when he knows they are ready to teleport to him?  He really wants to make the wizard feel inferior.    
> 
> The only way they'll be able to break the globe is dispell magic and a roll of 19+ or damage him via mundane attacks and break his concentration (+10), right?  
> 
> I figure they'll triumph eventually, but this should give him the best chance to prolong the fight, poke away at them, and talk crap the whole time (he's ALL EGO).
> ...


If your players know how Globe of Invuilnerability works, it will not be a challenge for them at all. 

1) Globe of Invulnerability is immobile. 
"An *immobile*, faintly shimmering barrier springs into existence in a 10-foot radius around you and remains for the duration."

2) Wizards in general and Liches in particular are very bad at strength and athletics. The party has two barbarians. 
All the party needs to do is have a barbarian run into the Globe of Invulerability, grapple the lich, and drag them out. The globe then does nothing and any party members who held spells for when the lich is dragged out can now trigger them. Many of the lich stat blocks, including Acerak, might not even have Misty Step or Dimension Door in their default stat block. This means that if they DO get grappled, they can be shoved prone, have disadvantage on every attack, advantage to be hit and have no way out because they will never succeed on a strength ability check against a raging barbarian. 

3) Globe of Invulnerability requires concentration. If the lich is concentrating on that spell then they aren't concentrating on something more nasty. 

So overall, I have found globe of invulnerability used by a high level caster to be more of a trap for them than anything else.

P.S. The party I was in used the grapple tactic against Acerak in Tomb of Annihilation and it was very effective.

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## da newt

I don't know if these players have ever encountered the GoI before - I know the PCs haven't.

If they are clever, the barbs should try to move him out of his protective globe.  He does have thunderwave for forced movement and can paralyze folks (legendary action and attack) so he might be able to break a grapple ... he will also have a lair action to split his damage with a PC which will help him last for a bit, but yeah - if the party strategize well, he doesn't stand a chance.

I expect that the barbs will be happy to go toe to toe w/ the big zombies - they tend to default to magic vs magic, melee vs melee.  This is not a hi op group.   

It does require an action to use the portal to get into his place, so he'll definitely last at least one round ...

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## Corran

They are fighting a lich (of all things), to a location of its choosing, and it knows they are on their way?! Only one thing "should" prevent a TPK in such a scenario. Well, more than one thing actually, cause distractions and/or enough attrition might work too, but I digress. Boredom. On the liche's part. That could do the trick. The lich sets up a scenario where the pc's have a chance of surviving and it watches the whole thing play out. Who knows, maybe it's even rooting for the pc's, good entertainment can be hard to find these centuries.

First, make something out of the teleportation circles, especially the one on the receiving end. Simply because you have to. When you know that your enemies, prey, or in this case, this year's jugglers, will go to point A, and then from point A they'll jump to point B, well, that's already a win and it should be treated as one. Nothing too extreme though, as you dont want the show to end before it even begins.

I'd trap the first circle with a custom spell (cause if liches dont do spell research, then who does?). Part enchantment, part conjuration and part divination. To keep it brief, the spell will essentially make the affected target sort of relive some traumatic experience or live through a situation they are much afraid of, but it's all in their heads, not happening for real. If you want me hard mechanical consequences maybe have them roll a few saves against exhaustion. I'd do that (ie this spell, not the potential exhaustion effect) for multiple reasons. Firstly, because it's the easiest way to make a villain hated (and later on memorable), by just having them get a little personal with the pc's. Secondly, because the players usually like it when you get a little spotlight into their characters' character or background. Thirdly, because I'd want the lich to be consistent in its curiosity/ seeking of entertainment. I'd have it be present at every pc's daydreaming as a back seat passenger, providing a snarky comment or two if and when appropriate. Fourthly, because even in its most playful demeanor, I wouldn't want to have a lich pass on any easily (magically or otherwise) obtained information on the mortals who went after it. And this is a big deal. Because putting aside their precious, you cannot threaten the lich with anything, as even the biggest inconvenience translates to a problem of time, which is unlimited for a lich. On the other hand, a lich who knows something about you, has everything to threaten you with. Only the desperate, the ones who have nothing to lose, the uncaring, the extremelly reckless and the stupid, would not take a liche's threats seriously. And while these few characteristics are far from uncommon in adventurers, even most of them (classic paladins not withstanding) would jump at some sort of compromise should a lich who gets serious about its threats offered one.

I'd maybe trap the second circle (ie the one in the boss room) with something simple, ie something that can either be dismantled with an ability check or with dispel magic. If so, I'd also want to combine it with a few incoming ranged attacks from enemy monsters (eg a good number of skeleton archers), just so I could give a sense of urgency in their tries to get free (also, because the threat of some lowly ranged attackers will seem disproportionately great during a few moments). The real trap I would set on the second circle would be that it deactivates itself after being used (even to receive someone), trapping the pc's so that the real show can begin. How does the circle get reactivated. I dunno, probably through some command phrase that the lich knows. Different command phrases could link the circle to different same circles at various locations (some of which could be deadly), in case you want to leave some room for divination magic (in tandem with some lucky rolls after correctly "guessing") to allow for victory conditions.

After the two circles are bypassed, I would follow it up with an encounter. Difficult enough to waste some of the pcs' resources, but nowhere near deadly, as I wouldn't want things to end with a combat encounter. I'd have either an illusion or a simulacrum (protected by globe of invulnerability) of the lich be present, but I wouldn't necessarily have the lich watch through such a link. Just for my own amusement I would have the lich doing something entirely different at the time all this is happening, and it would probably catch up with the highlights of the whole affair at some point in the future, if they even remembered at all.

For the final part of the show, I would use the advantage of having the pc's trapped in a place that would be (I'd make it so, firstly by proofing it against teleportation) extremelly difficult to escape from (that's what happens when you get into a battlefield predetermined by your enemy, and moreover, when you also took the path that was again predetermined by your enemy; especially if your enemy knows magic, is intelligent, and at least a few centuries old). I'd place several magical gates around the battle room. Have them placed so that they are just outside the dimensionally anchored space of the rest of the room. These gates allow enemies to pour in. Easy enough at first, but the more you keep up, the more the difficulty scales. A little into the fighting, I'd use the villain (original illusion or simulacrum if still around, otherwise through an illusion that has been programmed to trigger when the "game" reaches a certain point) to communicate in no uncertain terms to the pc's that this game is not winnable, but that it is escapable. Each monster spawning gate has a unique characteristic to it (some symbol, a colour, what have you). One of the gates leads to safety (have it be relative safety, if for nothing else you want to confuse divination attempts), the others lead to certain death. Have the solution of some sort of riddle or puzzle be their ticket out of there, so make trial and error not work and dont reveal what happens if anyone steps into a gate alone. If I wanted to spare a pc from crossing the wrong gate, I might have the lich's simulacrum or semi sentient illusion give a shake of the head or a nod to a pc that is ready to cross the wrong or the correct gate respectively, if and only if the lich was sufficiently amused during the daydreaming game of the first circle (I'd leave it to the dice for which one of them would be the liche's favourite, for whom they would not mind bending the rules of the game a little; this does not necessarily have anything to do with a missing sense of humanity on the liche's part).

Successfully exiting through the correct gate, leads to teleporting to some location where there are a few remaining undead that the pc's can take care or avoid without too much difficulty. I'd make the location a place familiar to at least one of the pc's (probably again one picked randomly by me in secret at the start of the session), and the undead slain loves ones, who were unfortunate enough to know the foolhardy pc and only one teleport away from the lich's minions. I'd do that not only because I like the drama, and following the thrill with thriumph and then with loss. But because I want to pay proper respect to the character (or in this case, the nature) of the villain. Mind you, for the kind of lich I have in mind (ie the one that prefers to entertain itself with adventurers rather than destroy them), this wouldn't be done out of malice or as revenge. It would be a prank. A gotcha moment, the kind of "haha, you won the game, now for your prize all your loved ones are dead!". There are no harmless jokes to be had when toying with evil, or in this case, when evil is toying with you. This is the way I would choose to show to the pc's that there are things in the world you cannot mess around with if you are not incredibly smart and probably lucky as well about it.

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## animorte

> Go all out, the main thing that potentially makes this challenging is the "one-PC-enters-the-fight-per-round" thing.  Try to telegraph to the PCs that they should expect to be in a fight the second they step through.


I would definitely lean into this. Is initiative rolled immediately after the first person activates the portal? I like this. Somehow, I would communicate that the battle has begun, perhaps the Lich sending through an illusion to taunt the party further, your so-and-so is stuck in here all alone with me. I wonder what kind of trouble theyre in

Each person rolls initiative upon teleporting through. They can strategize who is the most important to go in first or who is willing to just hang back. Maybe the Wizard feels incredibly motivated and wants to go in early and prove a point. Or maybe the Wizard has been properly emasculated and wants to be absent as long as possible.

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## Chronos

A fight with a lich isn't supposed to be fair.  If a lich fought fair, they wouldn't have turned themselves into an undead horror to begin with.

One other thing to be sure you're taking into account:  The cleric and possibly the bard can cast Silence, which has always been a go-to option for dealing with a powerful spellcaster, because the vast majority of spells have a verbal component.  Make sure the BBEG has ways to deal with that.  Globe of Invulnerability will help, but only until he's dragged out of it (which, as said, won't be hard).  And just moving out of the Silenced area won't help either, if he's being held in there by a grapple or two.

Looking up the Lich entry, the frightening gaze legendary action (used on the grappling barbarians) might also help, but assuming that the barbarian manages to close with the lich first, it won't force him away.  It will give the barbarian disadvantage on athletics checks (which probably just offsets the advantage from raging), but even with that, the lich would still need to spend an action on getting out of the grapple, and still wouldn't have great odds.

Paralyzing Touch (either as an action or as a legendary action) could also help, but then you've got the issue that you're trying to hit a barbarian with a Con save.  And either of those is only going to hit one of the barbarians per turn.

What you _really_ need is a way to teleport a short distance without needing a verbal component.  But I don't think there are any spells that do that.

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## J-H

> What you _really_ need is a way to teleport a short distance without needing a verbal component.  But I don't think there are any spells that do that.


This lich was a Conjurer.  Conjurer level 6 feature:

*Benign Transportation*
Starting at 6th level, you can use your action to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see. Alternatively, you can choose a space within range that is occupied by a Small or Medium creature. If that creature is willing, you both teleport, swapping places.
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest or you cast a conjuration spell of 1st level or higher.

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## Rafaelfras

If you really want to wreck havoc casa meteor swarm. It will REALLY make then go "o **** we may not survive '

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## Oramac

> The only way to get to the top floor / demiplane of the wizard tower is via the teleportation circle (it requires an action to use - *one PC at a time*).


My emphasis added. (also, I freakin love this idea!)

This is your biggest advantage. Use it. GoI is cool and all, but the Lich will be encountering the party one-two-three at a time for the first several rounds of combat. 

There are two possibilities here: 

1) The party knows about this restriction, and plans accordingly. They will likely send the 2 barbs through first, so GoI is mostly useless. Instead, use spells like _banishment_, _forcecage_, or _dominate person_. Or, heck, a creative use of _modify memory_ on the first person through could be REALLY fun. 

2) The party doesn't know, and/or does not plan accordingly. Lots more room to improvise here, but I would still say GoI isn't really your best bet. _Modify memory_ could still be fun, as could _suggestion_, _dominate person_, etc. If they send the wizard through first (idk why they would, but I've seen dumber things) let him get 15-20 feet into the room and drop a _forcecage_ around him.

Overall, GoI is cool, but I think you've got a lot of better options given the entrance restriction.

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## Chronos

Best case scenario for the party:  Round one, one barb goes through, grapples the lich, and the lich does something to the barb that doesn't kill him.  Round two, the cleric or bard goes through, casts Silence, recognizes the shimmering ten-foot sphere around the lich, and tells the barb to drag the lich out of it.  If the lich is by-the-book, the combat is now basically over.

Benign Transposition helps a lot, here, but it's still not really enough:  The lich is still using his action on it, and even if he then always uses a bonus action on a conjuration spell to recharge it, he's not really accomplishing much except undoing what the two barbarians keep doing to him (bonus action conjuration spells plus his legendary actions isn't going to put much of a dent in whatever else the party is doing).  His best option would be transposing out of the grapple, casting a bonus action spell to recharge it, and then use Legendary Actions to Frightful Gaze the barbarians:  That could still work, if everything goes right for him, but still leaves a lot of chances for failure.

Here's a thought, though:  This is his lair, and he knows the party's capabilities, and has had at least some chance to prepare.  What if his lair has a cage in it?  Not a forcecage or anything magical like that:  Just an ordinary steel cage, permanently fixed to the floor.  Now the party has to either restrict themselves to things that can pass through the cage, or do something like teleporting one of the barbarians in with the lich.

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## Lunali

> The only way to get to the top floor / demiplane of the wizard tower is via the teleportation circle (it requires an action to use - one PC at a time).


There have been a lot of people assuming that this means one PC per round, I would just like to clarify if that's actually what you meant or if you meant one PC per activation of the circle.

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## Oramac

> There have been a lot of people assuming that this means one PC per round, I would just like to clarify if that's actually what you meant or if you meant one PC per activation of the circle.


That's a fair question. And it does change things, though not a lot. 

The Lich will surely know they're there and ready to use the circle, so readying a spell for the first person though would still work. I'd say _dominate person_ or _modify memory_ would actually be two really solid options for this. Or, if you rule that the destination circle can't be used until the person occupying it moves away from it, a readied _hold person_ could be all kinds of brutal. 

In either case, I think that as cool as GoI is, it's still not really the best option.

EDIT: also, just putting a _wall of force_ around the destination circle would be hilarious, and allow the Lich to taunt the whole party for a minute before combat really begins.  :Small Big Grin:

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## Unoriginal

> EDIT: also, just putting a _wall of force_ around the destination circle would be hilarious, and allow the Lich to taunt the whole party for a minute before combat really begins.


The Lich could have prepared a big bunch of explosive and placed it on the ceiling above the circle, so that the Wall of Force seals the explosion in.

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## Oramac

> The Lich could have prepared a big bunch of explosive and placed it on the ceiling above the circle, so that the Wall of Force seals the explosion in.


Ohhhhhh. I like it. If he really wants to taunt the other wizard, _delayed blast fireball_ would do the trick nicely. (assuming the DM rules that he can drop concentration at the same time as casting _wall of force_)

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## yellowrocket

> Ohhhhhh. I like it. If he really wants to taunt the other wizard, _delayed blast fireball_ would do the trick nicely. (assuming the DM rules that he can drop concentration at the same time as casting _wall of force_)


Explosive runes for the win. Make the portal go to a room with a door and the words right above an obvious lock. And just have him laughing when they go off. Not like it has a ton of damage, just a xylon like taunt of I can't believe you fell for that.

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## PhoenixPhyre

> Explosive runes for the win. Make the portal go to a room with a door and the words right above an obvious lock. And just have him laughing when they go off. Not like it has a ton of damage, just a xylon like taunt of I can't believe you fell for that.


I had an obvious "vault door" in one dungeon. Big, blatant, guarded. Behind it, a blank wall with "I prepared explosive runes" written on it as the trigger for the explosive runes spell. Was quite amusing.

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## Zuras

When I played this particular module, the Psychic Scream almost TPKed a strong party.  An Int save with that DC is no joke.

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## Unoriginal

> When I played this particular module, the Psychic Scream almost TPKed a strong party.  An Int save with that DC is no joke.


Who has a Psychic Scream?

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## ProsecutorGodot

> Who has a Psychic Scream?


This Lich does



> This particular goober doesn't know PWK - he's got psychic scream instead (but he plans to use his top slot to upcast his globe of invulnerability).


If the globe plan must happen, it might be worth only upcasting to 8th, none of the PC have 9th level spells and only one 8th level slot.

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## Sigreid

any fight is fair enough if the party isn't forced into it.  If they choose a fight where they are disadvantaged, so be it.

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