# Forum > Gaming > Gaming (Other) >  Pokémon Thread XXX: Hot Skitty on Wailord Action!

## Kareeah_Indaga

Previous Thread

What are everyone's thoughts on the Mega Raids in Pokémon Go?

I'm not a fan, but that's mostly because COVID has made group Raiding ill-advised.

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## danzibr

Just mega evolved my Beedrill.  Man, what a disappointment.  Lasts 4 hours?  Yuck.

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## Rater202

Honestly, I'm surprised that they didn't drop Mega evolution as a concept when Gigantimax came around.

It seems that every Gen has a new gimick for keeps and a new gimick for only that gen.

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## Bartmanhomer

Some people say that the Pokemon Showdown is a very balanced game. No, it's not. I love Pokemon Showdown as much as the next person but I can tell you it's not a balanced game.  :Annoyed:

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## danzibr

k, question, folks

I'm an aspiring... mid-game player.  Level 33, have a big stockpile (for me) of fast TMs, charged TMs, rare candy.  A few legendaries (not many, the birds and doggos).  But I haven't used many resources.  

My question is, how do you decide which 'mons to use TMs on?

My current thinking is this: I've favorited all my 'mons which have matching fast and charged moves (at least above 2000 CP or so), thus anything below that doesn't have matching moves.  I plan on (naively?) getting up to 3 of each attacker type (like Ice with matching Ice fast and charged moves), and if I have stuff leftover, just go top down.  Can't have too many Tyranitars eh?

I'm *not* looking at like... dual types or current raids or projected raids or anything.

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## Squark

I look at pokemon I have who are well regarded and whom I can easily get candy for.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> Just mega evolved my Beedrill.  Man, what a disappointment.  Lasts 4 hours?  Yuck.


It did seem kind of like it was a boost for Raid Night and not much else.




> I'm an aspiring... mid-game player.  Level 33, have a big stockpile (for me) of fast TMs, charged TMs, rare candy.  A few legendaries (not many, the birds and doggos).  But I haven't used many resources.  
> 
> My question is, how do you decide which 'mons to use TMs on?


TBH I hardly ever use my TMs. There have been a couple times I've wanted a specific Pokemon to have a different attack for the Battle League, and that's really it.

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## unseenmage

Anyone else kind of tired of Team Rocket ballons bobbing about in the way of their poke-tapping? 

I just want to shiny check in peace darnnit.

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## boj0

> Some people say that the Pokemon Showdown is a very balanced game. No, it's not. I love Pokemon Showdown as much as the next person but I can tell you it's not a balanced game.


No one says that, because Showdown isn't a game, it's  a server; and anyone who plays Pokemon seriously knows it isn't balanced.

Sooo I'm not sure where you were going with that aside from making generalizations?

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> Anyone else kind of tired of Team Rocket ballons bobbing about in the way of their poke-tapping? 
> 
> I just want to shiny check in peace darnnit.


I've found they're generally useful for getting the First Catch of the Day bonus if the auto-spawning Pokémon flees. But yeah I don't really need them drifting along behind me while I walk around the block; if I were going to fight them I'd have done it immediately.

Also I wish they'd update the dialog for the Balloon Grunts, because I find myself getting snarky with them.

"My boss told me to take over this PokeStop!" _What_ PokeStop?
"What are you doing here?!" I _live_ here.
Etc...

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## MCerberus

Speaking of the title, nintendo advertised a "Pokemon Masters Ex". On twitter. Where hashtags don't have spaces.

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## Fable Wright

> Speaking of the title, nintendo advertised a "Pokemon Masters Ex". On twitter. Where hashtags don't have spaces.


They prefer people to use the hashtag that's capitalized.

Which is why #pokemonmastersex is trending.

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## Bartmanhomer

> No one says that, because Showdown isn't a game, it's a server; and anyone who plays Pokemon seriously knows it isn't balanced.
> 
> So I'm not sure where you were going with that aside from making generalizations?


I wasn't making any generalizations on Pokemon Showdown. A few friends of mine claim that Pokemon Showdown is balanced. I told them it isn't balanced.

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## boj0

> I wasn't making any generalizations on Pokemon Showdown. A few friends of mine claim that Pokemon Showdown is balanced. I told them it isn't balanced.


Yes, you were, you literally just made a sweeping generalization about Showdown.



> I love Pokemon Showdown as much as the next person but I can tell you it's not a balanced game.


Also, Showdown is not balanced or unbalanced; it's a website, not a game. Unless you mean the various game modes, like OverUsed, Monotype, Anything Goes, etc. In which case I'd ask which ones you don't think are balanced, and why.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Yes, you were, you literally just made a sweeping generalization about Showdown.
> 
> 
> Also, Showdown is not balanced or unbalanced; it's a website, not a game. Unless you mean the various game modes, like OverUsed, Monotype, Anything Goes, etc. In which case I'd ask which ones you don't think are balanced, and why.


How is that even a generalization?  :Annoyed:  And to answer your second question all of them are unbalanced including Ubers.

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## boj0

> Generalization 
> n.	A principle, statement, or idea having general application.


So when you make a statement about an entire website/game, that's a generalization; a broad statement (Showdown is unbalanced) applied to many examples (the tiers/game modes). My issue is that you are making these statements without any explanation or evidence.

What is your definition of unbalanced? Why is it unbalanced? Do you believe that Pokémon in general is unbalanced, or purely limited to Showdown? Right now, all we have is you saying "some people said it's balanced, I said it wasn't." Which, given the trend of the thread at the time, comes across as a non-sequitur that doesn't leave room for discussion and defeats the purpose of a public forum.

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## Bartmanhomer

> So when you make a statement about an entire website/game, that's a generalization; a broad statement (Showdown is unbalanced) applied to many examples (the tiers/game modes). My issue is that you are making these statements without any explanation or evidence.
> 
> What is your definition of unbalanced? Why is it unbalanced? Do you believe that Pokémon in general is unbalanced, or purely limited to Showdown? Right now, all we have is you saying "some people said it's balanced, I said it wasn't." Which, given the trend of the thread at the time, comes across as a non-sequitur that doesn't leave room for discussion and defeats the purpose of a public forum.


Ok, I see what you mean. The difference between the stats, offensive, defensive, strength, and weakness is for each Pokemon is very unbalanced. There's no equal balanced for every Pokemon just like the tier in Smogon. Some people who spoke to me about Pokemon is very equally balanced (regardless of the Pokemon Strength and Weakness of the Smogon Tier.) Pokemon is very broken and Mewtwo is very broken and Magikarp is very weak (although Magikarp can be a powerful top-tier Sweeper with the Attack Boost Sword Dance and Baton Pass combo.) The whole discussion that I'm trying to convince my friends that Pokemon is very unbalanced no matter what. How's that for a discussion?  :Smile:

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## boj0

I would say that there has to be at least some variation in stat distribution, otherwise all battles would just be between the same Pokémon every battle. While that can lead to some imbalance, I feel that gives some incentive for creativity and removes stagnation (in theory).

Regarding tiers, I feel that it comes down to a perception of what the tiers are supposed to be and how they are actually used. Overused, for example is not supposed to be the tier for "the strongest", it's simply supposed to be the most used 'mons, however the most used tend to be those with a combination of high stat values, powerful moves, efficient typing, etc. This lends to a feedback loop of OU is better, because if something was good, then it would be used, and if it was used it would be OU.

That leads to issues with the metagame and trends, various Pokémon have risen and fallen in usage without any real change to personal power, it's just a reaction to trends in battling. A "weak" Pokemon fills a useful niche and gains traction in the meta, it becomes OU, then by the feedback loop example it becomes "strong". 
*Spoiler: Bisharp tangent*
Show

Bisharp is my favorite example of this, by all means a very average monster, with it's typing being it's most notable feature. In 5th Gen it saw some usage but mostly hung around the lower tiers since fast Fighting types were so common in OU. 6th Gen came around and shook things up, Steel lost their resistance to Dark and Ghost, which Bisharp still resisted, Knock Off recieved a buff, Intimidate and Defog were prevalent (and with Defiant, Bisharp had reliable access to Attack increases), Fairies caused Fighting types to drop in usage, and were weak to Steel in turn, and with Sucker Punch it was able to add priority which was a massive staple for 6th gen teams. Even though Bisharp didn't change much, the competitive environment *did*

This is why we see things that aren't conventionally strong, but valuable in a specific competitive environment, famously the VGC Pachirisu, which is a weak mon individually, but a combination of what was available and trends in the doubles meta let it "punch above its weight class". This is what allows Pokémon that are "broken" to sit and collect dust while gimmicky sets and become meta staples. So Pokemon themselves are strong and weak, but it comes more down to synergy.

Finally, I believe that the issues with Smogon/Showdown stem from an attempt to take various aspects of the game to add or remove in an attempt to make it balanced. Imposing restrictions forces innovation, if Mewtwo is the strongest then it wins everything, get rid of Mewtwo and balance the game. Now people have to use a different Pokemon to fill its role and potentially cover any new weaknesses that arise. Then people learn how to fight those new threats and bring counters, then counters to the counters. A tier is born, now you can have another tier to allow people to make teams and battle with the other Pokemon, and new strategies are developed, counters are made, and counters for counters, etc. The cycle continues ad nauseam.

Pokemon is broken and unbalanced, but I would say that's its greatest strength, it encourages people to adjust it, to make restrictions, to embrace themes and goals, to force innovation and thus force growth. Force change. Force it to even...evolve?

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## Bartmanhomer

> I would say that there has to be at least some variation in stat distribution, otherwise all battles would just be between the same Pokémon every battle. While that can lead to some imbalance, I feel that gives some incentive for creativity and removes stagnation (in theory).
> 
> Regarding tiers, I feel that it comes down to a perception of what the tiers are supposed to be and how they are actually used. Overused, for example, is not supposed to be the tier for "the strongest", it's simply supposed to be the most used 'mons, however, the most users tend to be those with a combination of high stat values, powerful moves, efficient typing, etc. This leads to a feedback loop of OU is better, because if something was good, then it would be used, and if it was used it would be OU.
> 
> That leads to issues with the metagame and trends, various Pokémon have risen and fallen in usage without any real change to personal power, it's just a reaction to trends in battling. A "weak" Pokemon fills a useful niche and gains traction in the meta, it becomes OU, then by the feedback loop example it becomes "strong". 
> *Spoiler: Bisharp tangent*
> Show
> 
> Bisharp is my favorite example of this, by all means, a very average monster, with its typing being it's a most notable feature. In 5th Gen, it saw some usage but mostly hung around the lower tiers since fast Fighting-types were so common in OU. 6th Gen came around and shook things up, Steel lost their resistance to Dark and Ghost, which Bisharp still resisted, Knock Off received a buff, Intimidate and Defog were prevalent (and with Defiant, Bisharp had reliable access to Attack increases), Fairies caused Fighting-types to drop in usage and were weak to Steel in turn, and with Sucker Punch, it was able to add priority which was a massive staple for 6th gen teams. Even though Bisharp didn't change much, the competitive environment *did*
> ...


Well it's still imbalanced in my opinion and Pokemon Showdown is no different than the actual Pokemon games but hey I love Pokemon Showdown which I haven't gone to that website for a while, so I might think that I want to pop in playing my Legendaries.  :Smile:

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## enderlord99

Showdown is the most-balanced pokemon game, official or otherwise; unfortunately, "most balanced pokemon game" is a phrase much like "fastest sloth."

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## Lvl 2 Expert

Many metagames as played on Showdown use a series of clauses that ban or nerf the most abusable exploits, like how you're not allowed to force an endless battle by using pokémon A with ability B and berry C plus a +5 in Cha and a feat ported over from 3.0 (I think I may need a refresher on how to Pokémon) or how you can't cause an opponent to fall asleep if there already is someone asleep on their team (because sleep powder has basically no drawbacks, as long as you outspeed you'll put them asleep).

I suppose that's what your friends meant when they said it was balanced.

Now, there are some more obscure metagames on the server that do stuff like giving stat boosts to Pokémon from lower tiers, which is closer to the kind of balance you seem to be thinking of, because for some reason you want Magikarp to be good (spoiler: it never will be). But this kind of balance is complicated, and any attempt at this will inherently make some Pokémon better than others.

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## Spore

So, is the Sw/Sh DLC worth the price if you want it for the story, not the advantage on competitive?

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> Pokemon is broken and unbalanced, but I would say that's its greatest strength, it encourages people to adjust it, to make restrictions, to embrace themes and goals, to force innovation and thus force growth. Force change. Force it to even...evolve?


Speaking of restrictions, am I the only one who thinks its odd that the Halloween Cup allows Fairy but not Psychic? I admit that I dont know how _useful_ they would be against a bunch of Dark, Ghost, and Bug Pokémon but I would think they fit the spooky Halloween theme at least as well as Fairy types.  :Small Confused:

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## Fable Wright

> Speaking of restrictions, am I the only one who thinks its odd that the Halloween Cup allows Fairy but not Psychic? I admit that I dont know how _useful_ they would be against a bunch of Dark, Ghost, and Bug Pokémon but I would think they fit the spooky Halloween theme at least as well as Fairy types.


Fairy makes sense, for cute halloween costumes. Psychic was probably removed because things like Azelf or Lugia don't fit the theme.

I _was_ going to joke that ot was to keep Mr. Mime out of Trick or Treating, but then I remembered that he's already in the building.  :Small Eek:

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## Rater202

Fairy-types might be cutesy but their moves invoke the moon, their type advantages and weaknesses imply that they're based on The Fair Folk* and some Pokedex entries imply the same.

*They're called "The Fair Folk" becuase while some of them can be considered "good" _all_ of them are completly bat**** by human standards and all of them demand utmost respect. Calling them something less polite, being nin anyway perceived as rude, or breaking rules that you were probably never told or given a chance to learn tends to result in a fate worse than death.

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## MCerberus

> Fairy-types might be cutesy but their moves invoke the moon, their type advantages and weaknesses imply that they're based on The Fair Folk* and some Pokedex entries imply the same.
> 
> *They're called "The Fair Folk" becuase while some of them can be considered "good" _all_ of them are completly bat**** by human standards and all of them demand utmost respect. Calling them something less polite, being nin anyway perceived as rude, or breaking rules that you were probably never told or given a chance to learn tends to result in a fate worse than death.


Imagine there's a pokemon Wild Hunt and you get taken out by your spare keys.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> Fairy-types might be cutesy but their moves invoke the moon, their type advantages and weaknesses imply that they're based on The Fair Folk* and some Pokedex entries imply the same.
> 
> *They're called "The Fair Folk" becuase while some of them can be considered "good" _all_ of them are completly bat**** by human standards and all of them demand utmost respect. Calling them something less polite, being nin anyway perceived as rude, or breaking rules that you were probably never told or given a chance to learn tends to result in a fate worse than death.


Which is reasonable for Halloween, but doesnt really explain why Psychic types arent _also_ included.  :Small Frown:  Having every secret in your head exposed, having your memories and identity completely wiped, having your children literally vanish into thin air...I should think that would be spooky enough.




> Imagine there's a pokemon Wild Hunt and you get taken out by your spare keys.


I havent seen Klefki in-game yet, but now I really want to.  :Small Big Grin:

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## Bartmanhomer

> Many metagames as played on Showdown use a series of clauses that ban or nerf the most abusable exploits, like how you're not allowed to force an endless battle by using pokémon A with ability B and berry C plus a +5 in Cha and a feat ported over from 3.0 (I think I may need a refresher on how to Pokémon) or how you can't cause an opponent to fall asleep if there already is someone asleep on their team (because sleep powder has basically no drawbacks, as long as you outspeed you'll put them asleep).
> 
> I suppose that's what your friends meant when they said it was balanced.
> 
> Now, there are some more obscure metagames on the server that do stuff like giving stat boosts to Pokémon from lower tiers, which is closer to the kind of balance you seem to be thinking of because for some reason you want Magikarp to be good (spoiler: it never will be). But this kind of balance is complicated, and any attempt at this will inherently make some Pokémon better than others.


Yes, the metagame of Pokemon is very complex.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

Im being reminded why I only sporadically partake of the GO Battle League. Two battles in a row where my lead Pokémon is nearly KOd before the opposing Pokémon even loads in will do that to a person.  :Small Yuk:

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## Rater202

I still want the spin-off game where mad scientist kidnaps a kid and fuses them with a Pokemon or otherwise turns them into some kind of hybrid with endings based on whether you stay fused, separate, or fail to escape from the bad guys.

There are a lot of concepts in Pokemon that are only around for one or two generations and never get fleshed out despite being super cool. We get a human accidentally fusing with a Pokemon in gen one and multiple pokemon being fused together in SwSH, so clearly, this kind of thing is plausible in the lore.

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## Bartmanhomer

> I still want the spin-off game where a a mad scientist kidnaps a kid and fuses them with a Pokemon or otherwise turns them into some kind of hybrid with endings based on whether you stay fused, separate, or fail to escape from the bad guys.
> 
> There are a lot of concepts in Pokemon that are only around for one or two generations and never get fleshed out despite being super cool. We get a human accidentally fusing with a Pokemon in gen one and multiple pokemon being fused together in SwSH, so clearly, this kind of thing is plausible in the lore.


I think there's a game just for that concept: Detective Pikachu.

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## Lord Raziere

> I still want the spin-off game where mad scientist kidnaps a kid and fuses them with a Pokemon or otherwise turns them into some kind of hybrid with endings based on whether you stay fused, separate, or fail to escape from the bad guys.
> 
> There are a lot of concepts in Pokemon that are only around for one or two generations and never get fleshed out despite being super cool. We get a human accidentally fusing with a Pokemon in gen one and multiple pokemon being fused together in SwSH, so clearly, this kind of thing is plausible in the lore.


Then there is the fact that in Gen 4 there is a legend that pokemon and humans were once one and same.

or the fact that in Gen 7, there were Dittos that took the form of people.

it really lends credence to my theory that everything non-legendary in pokemonverse is just dittos or dittos who forgot how to shapeshift.

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## Fable Wright

> Then there is the fact that in Gen 4 there is a legend that pokemon and humans were once one and same.
> 
> or the fact that in Gen 7, there were Dittos that took the form of people.
> 
> it really lends credence to my theory that everything non-legendary in pokemonverse is just dittos or dittos who forgot how to shapeshift.


It's not Dittos. The ur-pokemon was Mew, the _other_ Gen 1 Pokemon with Transformwho went extinct because they branched out into every other form of pokemon. Dittos were an attempt to recreate mews from existing pokemon, and while they managed to keep Transform, they... didn't get the other relevant bits of the mews.

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## Lord Raziere

> It's not Dittos. The ur-pokemon was Mew, the _other_ Gen 1 Pokemon with Transformwho went extinct because they branched out into every other form of pokemon. Dittos were an attempt to recreate mews from existing pokemon, and while they managed to keep Transform, they... didn't get the other relevant bits of the mews.


Well cloning is basically how cells reproduce through mitosis. saying they're a failed clone of Mew by itself doesn't mean anything, as both dittos and mews could be using mitosis to reproduce and one day one mitosis gone wrong and you got a ditto, and that ditto went on to reproduce into everything thats not a Mew. Mew is legendary so of course they'd come before all that and would make ditto first.

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## Fable Wright

> Well cloning is basically how cells reproduce through mitosis. saying they're a failed clone of Mew by itself doesn't mean anything, as both dittos and mews could be using mitosis to reproduce and one day one mitosis gone wrong and you got a ditto, and that ditto went on to reproduce into everything thats not a Mew. Mew is legendary so of course they'd come before all that and would make ditto first.


...I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

What _I_ am trying to say is that I find the hypothesis that Mew is the Last Universal Common Ancestor a credible one, and it is implied to be canon in a few places. Everything is a _speciated_ Mew, not a failed clonea mew that can no longer shapeshift and breeds true. 

I further posit that Ditto is not a natural pokemon, having originated in a lab, and thus not everything can be a Ditto; Dittos are instead an attempt to reconstruct a Mew from existing DNA (much as one might try to "reconstruct" a woolly mammoth by adding hair genes to an existing Asian elephant). To say that everything is a "Ditto that forgot to shapeshift", I feel, is inaccurate because they are in fact _Mews_ who lost the ability to shapeshift during speciation, and Dittos too recent an invention to be the LUCA of pokemon.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> I further posit that Ditto is not a natural pokemon, having originated in a lab


Where are you getting this from?

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## LaZodiac

> Where are you getting this from?


It's a fan theory/in universe assumption based on pokemon layout. Ditto are often found in the Pokemon Mansion where Mewtwo was made, there are documents in said mansion talking about failed clones of mew, and Mew and Ditto both have Transform, statistical layout, and height/weight, as well as colour and shiny colour palettes.

As far as theories go I'm safe with saying it's just canon.

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## Rater202

> Where are you getting this from?


In some versions of the Kanto games, Dittos are a common spawn in Pokemon Mansion on Cinnabar Island. You know, the building with the secret lab were people who found the Mythical Pokemon Mew and were experimenting with it, leading to the birth of MewTwo?

(Incidentally, while MewTwo in the anime and some manga adaptions is a modified clone, in the games they found a live mew and experimented on it and MewTwo is Mew's offspring, mutated by the experiments done on its parent and or further experiments commented on it.)

This has led to a fan theory that Ditto's were created artificially from the data collected from the experiments on Mew and MewTwo.

...Incidentally, in Lets Go if you have Mew or MewTwo as your partner who walks behind you, they are noticeably uncomfortable in the Pokemon Mansion and if you go to the tank in the lab they just stare at it, indicating that the Kanto Mew is the Kanto Mewtwo's parent and they both have PTSD from what happened in the mansion.

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## Lord Raziere

> It's a fan theory/in universe assumption based on pokemon layout. Ditto are often found in the Pokemon Mansion where Mewtwo was made, there are documents in said mansion talking about failed clones of mew, and Mew and Ditto both have Transform, statistical layout, and height/weight, as well as colour and shiny colour palettes.
> 
> As far as theories go I'm safe with saying it's just canon.


Eeeeh. here is the problem with that; Ditto also appears on various other routes in Kanto  and didn't even appear in the mansion original Red and Blue, they only appeared in pokemon mansion in Yellow and the Remakes. in the original red/blue they appeared in routes 13, 14, 15, 23 and cerulean cave. 

various other routes ditto appear through the series don't have much connection with science research either.

furthermore, Ditto is similar to an amoeba or an undifferentiated cell, a single-celled organism with no definite shape, and single-celled organisms reproduce different from multi-cellular ones. and its perfectly possible for unicellular organisms to reach visible sizes, there are macroscopic unicellular organisms.

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## Bartmanhomer

Then maybe Ditto should have been a mythical or legendary Pokemon since it related to Mew in a way of its DNA and cloning.

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## Fable Wright

> Then maybe Ditto should have been a mythical or legendary Pokemon since it related to Mew in a way of its DNA and cloning.


If so, Castform should be mythical or legendary, since it's also artificially created in a lab from scientific origins. And Porygon. Maybe fossil pokemon, too. 

(To be clear, I think none of these things _should_ have happened; just that being artificial/a creation of science shouldn't immediately cause mythical status.)

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## Qwertystop

> If so, Castform should be mythical or legendary, since it's also artificially created in a lab from scientific origins. And Porygon. Maybe fossil pokemon, too. 
> 
> (To be clear, I think none of these things _should_ have happened; just that being artificial/a creation of science shouldn't immediately cause mythical status.)


Wait, are Castform lab-created? You get it from a sciency place, sure, but that place is a _weather station_ which presumably keeps them for research and/or forecasting purposes. I assumed they were naturally-occurring, just couldn't be caught in the wild. Like Farfetch'd.

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## Spore

> I assumed they were naturally-occurring, just couldn't be caught in the wild. Like Farfetch'd.


I mean the concept of endangered pokemon is not new by any stretch. 




> This has led to a fan theory that Ditto's were created artificially from the data collected from the experiments on Mew and MewTwo.
> 
> ...Incidentally, in Lets Go if you have Mew or MewTwo as your partner who walks behind you, they are noticeably uncomfortable in the Pokemon Mansion and if you go to the tank in the lab they just stare at it, indicating that the Kanto Mew is the Kanto Mewtwo's parent and they both have PTSD from what happened in the mansion.


The latter thing is canon as RBY diary entries state that they had Mew in there, trying to harness the secrets of its power. Mewtwo is basically a supersoldier project based on Mew. I consider this Ditto theory canon as much as I assume Cubone is linked to Kangaskhan. Or how Butterfree and Venomoth are swapped evolutions.

Because it just makes sense, and RBY had the Dark Souls approach of environmental story telling. Stuff was not so much in your face as it was just to be found in the wilds. Which now that I think about it, is a thing that VERY MUCH grates me about legendaries nowadays. Back in the day, it was RBY with Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres. They just were there in the games. They had a bit of lore, but mostly they were just unique pokemon.

GSE then kicked it up a notch by giving Ho-oh and Lugia a place in a short mythos, but didn't focus the story much on them. They were side things. But from 3rd gen onwards, every main line game features their legendaries in the story. And I hate it. Because it made it canon that the weird 10-ish year old we control is controling this area's legends after what feels like a month of training. At least in RBY and GSE you could make the assumption that yes, the protagonist met the legendary, but not necessarily caught it.

While some games dont even let you progress until you caught the incredibly easy-to-catch legendary whose story significance is to be caught by the player, and subsequently being congratulated to DEATH by all the major non player characters. Yes, I am quite literally the best for catching this god amongst 'mon, with a catch rate of "oh god please just use anything bigger than a pokeball".

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## Bartmanhomer

> If so, Castform should be mythical or legendary, since it's also artificially created in a lab from scientific origins. And Porygon. Maybe fossil pokemon, too. 
> 
> (To be clear, I think none of these things _should_ have happened; just that being artificial/a creation of science shouldn't immediately cause mythical status.)


Yes you're right about Castform, Porygon and the fossil Pokemon. I agree with you.  :Smile:

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## DataNinja

> Wait, are Castform lab-created?


Yeah, it's not directly quoted by bulbapedia (as the minor NPC lines aren't transcripted, and they're the ones that say it), but it does state on the Weather Institute page "The Weather Institute has created a Pokémon named Castform, which has the ability to predict the weather and its conditions on a specific location." I'm certain that it's mentioned, I just unfortunately can't give an exact citation.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> While some games dont even let you progress until you caught the incredibly easy-to-catch legendary whose story significance is to be caught by the player, and subsequently being congratulated to DEATH by all the major non player characters. Yes, I am quite literally the best for catching this god amongst 'mon, with a catch rate of "oh god please just use anything bigger than a pokeball".


I have to say that this ALONE irritates me to pieces. When I have played every handheld game from original Red Version up through X and Y, I DO NOT need the game holding my hand while I catch a Pokémon. Likewise I dont need the supposed Big Bad to be nerfed down to four measly Pokémon.  :Small Yuk:

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## Bartmanhomer

I wonder if there's a Knight Pokemon exist somewhere?  :Confused:

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## Fable Wright

> I wonder if there's a Knight Pokemon exist somewhere?


..._Which one?_

Take your pick. You've got, off the top of my head, Corviknight, Gallade, Sirfetch'd, Chesnaught, the Swords of Justice (basically the three Musketeers), Escavalier, and probably Bisharp.

And we're not even touching other culture's warriors with pokemon like Falinks, Kartana, or Perrserker.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> ..._Which one?_
> 
> Take your pick. You've got, off the top of my head, Corviknight, Gallade, Sirfetch'd, Chesnaught, the Swords of Justice (basically the three Musketeers), Escavalier, and probably Bisharp.
> 
> And we're not even touching other culture's warriors with pokemon like Falinks, Kartana, or Perrserker.


Going to add: Zamazenta and Zacian.

----------


## Fred V

Just imagine a dnd pokemon board game.Wait, that should exist already...

----------


## boj0

PTU & PTA both exist as fan made table top games, if you're looking for a more classic board game, track down an old copy of Pokemon Master Trainer.

----------


## Fred V

> PTU & PTA both exist as fan made table top games, if you're looking for a more classic board game, track down an old copy of Pokemon Master Trainer.


like that one there ? i.ebayimg.com/images/g/J5IAAOSwpAhdCxGQ/s-l1600.jpg

lol there is a 5e game also pokemon5e.com/#downloads even with a pokelib phone app, last time i saw one it was a booklet :D

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> lol there is a 5e game also pokemon5e.com/#downloads even with a pokelib phone app, last time i saw one it was a booklet :D


Good. Now we just ditch the trainers and plug the Pokémon into regular 5e as player characters. Et voila, knight pokémon.

First evolution at level 5, second at level 11, temporary mega or dynamax forms at level 17. Instead of an evolution you can always choose to receive an eviolite or other special held item. The mix practically writes itself.

(Yeah okay that game already has levels at which the Pokémon can evolve.)

----------


## Fred V

> Good. Now we just ditch the trainers and plug the Pokémon into regular 5e as player characters. Et voila, knight pokémon.
> 
> First evolution at level 5, second at level 11, temporary mega of dynamax forms at level 17. Instead of an evolution you can always choose to receive an eviolite or other special held item. The mix practically writes itself.
> 
> (Yeah okay that game already has levels at which the Pokémon can evolve.)



Actually, this doesnt sound any bad. Oh i played all possible rpgs already and i have a strong urge to play something like that.
I wish i can roleplay as an Onyx. Uhm hm. Brrr Hmm Uhm. lol

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Actually, this doesnt sound any bad. Oh i played all possible rpgs already and i have a strong urge to play something like that.
> I wish i can roleplay as an Onyx. Uhm hm. Brrr Hmm Uhm. lol


If you're going with Onyx, I might go for a Quagsire bard. Including stupid renaissance bard hat.

----------


## Fred V

> If you're going with Onyx, I might go for a Quagsire bard. Including stupid renaissance bard hat.




lmao reminded me of that pic deviantart.com/chaos876/art/Giggity-145753186

That quagsire have a perfomance proficiency, some specific perfomance :D

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Are there any genie Pokemon at all?  :Confused:

----------


## tyckspoon

> Are there any genie Pokemon at all?


Hoopa and the elemental trio from Black/White (Landorus/Thundorus/Tornadus) are designed to evoke common depictions and elements of pop culture genies. And depending on what you mean by 'genie' there are several pokemon that supposedly grant wishes.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Hoopa and the elemental trio from Black/White (Landorus/Thundorus/Tornadus) are designed to evoke common depictions and elements of pop culture genies. And depending on what you mean by 'genie' there are several pokemon that supposedly grant wishes.


Oh, you mean like Jirachi? That's the Pokemon who grants wishes.

----------


## Absol197

Hey all!  New DLC, new version exclusives!  Is there anyone with Sword who can help me with some trades? 

I need the version exclusive omanyte, bacon, and to touch-trade for the Dex entry for regieleki and glastrier. 

Let me know, either here or in DMs.  Obviously i can trade the other version exclusives in exchange, or I have a spare shiny Zorua I found if you want something a bit different :) .

----------


## Fredaintdead

> Hey all!  New DLC, new version exclusives!  Is there anyone with Sword who can help me with some trades? 
> 
> I need the version exclusive omanyte, bacon, and to touch-trade for the Dex entry for regieleki and glastrier. 
> 
> Let me know, either here or in DMs.  Obviously i can trade the other version exclusives in exchange, or I have a spare shiny Zorua I found if you want something a bit different :) .


I can at least provide Omanyte and Bagon in return for Kabuto and Gible, so please message me if you're still looking for them. (I'm also looking to get ahold of the dex-entries for Regieleki and Glastrier if anyone has them)

----------


## DaOldeWolf

> Hey all!  New DLC, new version exclusives!  Is there anyone with Sword who can help me with some trades? 
> 
> I need the version exclusive omanyte, bacon, and to touch-trade for the Dex entry for regieleki and glastrier. 
> 
> Let me know, either here or in DMs.  Obviously i can trade the other version exclusives in exchange, or I have a spare shiny Zorua I found if you want something a bit different :) .


I can help gladly with omanyte, bagon an the touchtrade of glastrier. I still havent caught either regi but if you give a couple of days, I can share the regieleki for touchtrade.

I am looking for a kabuto so an exclusive trade would be amazing.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Aotrs Commander

Oh joy. The absolute nadir of Pokémon sun/Moon the anime so far - a baseball episode.

Urrrrrgh. That was completely boring,

My knowledge of baseball is only marginally less than completely incomprehensible because Steven J Goauld the palentologist included a breakdown of how it works in the British edition of Wonder Life because he'd used it as a metaphor in the book and realised that British People would have no idea what he was talking about. (And I read that pretty much bang-on twenty years ago.)

Perhaps if you care about baseball (I don't) or sports anime (I double-don't) or sport in general (I triple-don't), this is better. 

I have NEVER seen a show that shows a sporting event in any genera in which is it NOT always down to the last shot (and thus having NO TENSION, since it ALWAYS ends that way); it's just as bad as the fact that LITERALLY every time anyone, in ANY animated series falls into a river there is ALWAYS, without fail, a waterfall at the end. Always. I'm not exaggerating, I literally look for occasions for it.



So, we can add this to the list of Bad Stuff: Ash's _awful_ design, over-exaggeration of his character to be over-excitable (even by Ash standards), no rival, no real plot thread thus far, Team Rocket blasting off ONCE in the first twenty-28 episodes (and there new motto is frack-awful). Yeah, it is a sad thing to admit, but Sun/Moon is on occasion struggling to EVEN manage to reach the mid-level of Cleaning The Room Telly (and the _bottom_ level is failure at Can Bleakbane Stand More Than Two Episodes Theatre), far from it being Proper DVD Supper Watching as it was previously.

(Also, all this about how great the animation is? I honestly don't see it. Perhaps if they actually spent more time, I dunno, doing something worthwhile WITH it, instead of really quite boring slice-of-life. I mean, come on, both My Little Pony and A Certain Scientific Railgun manage to trivially beat it on that regard; it's not even TRYING.)

Oh, and while it gets one point for Litten's introductory arc; it loses three for not showing the body.

If you're going to deal with the topic of grief and death, have the decency to at least fricking approach the same level SESEME STREET did that first time, come on. 

(I've said it before and I've said it again - children need to be exposed to learning about death. Because sometimes, when you're seven (or three), your baby sister dies. You can't molly-coddle children and smother them in cotton wool about the reality (in this regard or others) because it makes you, the parent uncomfortable to have to talk about; that's your damn responsibilty, living, for chosing to procreate.)




Edit: And after that nadir, there was one medioche episode (with the best part being that sun/Moon does sometimes remember that Ash is just completely RIDIUCULOUS, such as him allowing himself to be drained with just eating constantly), followed by a more interesting (geniuely better) episode where the charaacters swapped Pokémon. It CAN work sometimes, but only when it doesn't do the same old tired clichés. (Notably? It has at least learned that shoehorning Team Rocket into every episode was not a good thing.)

----------


## Spore

Aotrs, I would like to comment on your post, but it reads like you wrote it with an oncoming stroke. There are so many references und unexplained similes or comparisons, my mind fails to comprehend, and no just because I don't know 80% of these things.

Also you are expecting the Pokemon Anime to become creative, when it is LITERALLY a holding pattern for new Pokemon players to jump off and into the game side of things? The games have a similar game structure for 20 years and it works, so why should the anime "risk" any creativity?

Gamefreak literally has side teams with small indie projects designed to keep Pokemon designers from burning out because the games are literally the same thing over and over and over again with little to no artistic freedom. I would not even be surprised new pokemon are designed by commitee rather than individual artists.

----------


## Aotrs Commander

> Aotrs, I would like to comment on your post, but it reads like you wrote it with an oncoming stroke. There are so many references und unexplained similes or comparisons, my mind fails to comprehend, and no just because I don't know 80% of these things.
> 
> Also you are expecting the Pokemon Anime to become creative, when it is LITERALLY a holding pattern for new Pokemon players to jump off and into the game side of things? The games have a similar game structure for 20 years and it works, so why should the anime "risk" any creativity?
> 
> Gamefreak literally has side teams with small indie projects designed to keep Pokemon designers from burning out because the games are literally the same thing over and over and over again with little to no artistic freedom. I would not even be surprised new pokemon are designed by commitee rather than individual artists.


Gee, I don't know perhaps the experience of when it was much better (see: Sinnoh and Kalos) showing that it can do so very much better when it actually tries?

So yes, I DAMN WELL DO expect better, because it has already DONE better.

"It's For Kids" (sic) is the laziest, most patronising way of attempting to justify lazy and/or plain bad writing, whether its at the executive level or any other. _It is NOT an excuse._

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Blarg, _of course_ Niantic decides to have a double catch XP event NOW of all times.  :Small Annoyed:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I got a question to ask, Are they any royalty Pokemon, space alien Pokemon that exist?  :Confused:

----------


## Fable Wright

> I got a question to ask, Are they any royalty Pokemon, space alien Pokemon that exist?


Deoxys says hi.

But here's a list.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Deoxys says hi.
> 
> But here's a list.


Hey Deoxys. Ok, that covers the space alien pokemon but what about the royalty pokemon you know a Pokemon who has the royalty blood of a king and queen. : smile:

----------


## Fable Wright

> Hey Deoxys. Ok, that covers the space alien pokemon but what about the royalty pokemon you know a Pokemon who has the royalty blood of a king and queen. : smile:


Vespiquen is a _queen_ bee.
Slow_king_ evolves with the king's rock.
Politoed evolves with the king's rock and is known as king of the toads.
Tyrunt is the Royal Heir pokemon. Its evolution, Tyratrum, is the Despot pokemon.
Then there's Nidoking & Nidoqueen, depending on if they count; Empoleon, the Emperor Penguin with a crown; and Ken Sugimori, the developer of the original 151, said that the Serperior line is based off French royalty.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Vespiquen is a _queen_ bee.
> Slow_king_ evolves with the king's rock.
> Politoed evolves with the king's rock and is known as the king of the toads.
> Tyrunt is the Royal Heir pokemon. Its evolution, Tyratrum, is the Despot pokemon.
> Then there's Nidoking & Nidoqueen, depending on if they count; Empoleon, the Emperor Penguin with a crown; and Ken Sugimori, the developer of the original 151, said that the Serperior line is based on French royalty.


Thank you. Pokemon got everything.  :Smile:

----------


## LaZodiac

The main legendary of Sword and Shield's "Crown Tundra" DLC is also a royal pokemon, complete with two noble steeds to ride.

----------


## DataNinja

To go with less-direct royalty: 
Magearna was crafted for a princess.
Aegislash is said to be able to detect those destined to be monarchs, as well as having attended to royalty.

----------


## Avaris

Theres also Frillish and Jellicent, who have crowns and are intended to look like royalty.

Popping into this thread to say hi; I recently got Pokemon Shield and am absolutely loving it! I played from Red, but really dropped out of the games after failing to get into Black/White and beyond. Coming at Shield after a bit of a break from the series really makes me appreciate it more.

Part of this is because I dont recognise all the pokemon, and am deliberately not looking things up. Ive never been a competitive player caring about EVs etc, and am approaching this in the same way I did when younger: not knowing what to expect, not seeking the optimal solution. But another part is the many quality of life improvements to the game: I know some people decry it as simplification, but removing the need for HMs on pokemon, and having things like the move remembering service easily accessible, shows that theyve really thought about which bits of gameplay are actually fun, rather than a chore to get through.

Im also really taken by the story: its the first game Ive played that sells the idea of the gym challenge as a major national thing a lot of people do and watch, and that gives character to the various gym leaders and competitors in an accessible way. Again, I know some people decry the story, but it honestly does really well at selling the story that I feel the very first games wanted to tell in terms of the gym challenge and world its in!

----------


## danzibr

Hi Avaris!

I only played Gen 1 (to completion), Gen 2 (not to completion), and now part of Let's Go: Eevee.  Oh, and a ton of Pokemon Go.  

I'm interested in getting more into the series, but not really sure where to start/proceed.  Probably finish up Let's Go.

----------


## Avaris

> Hi Avaris!
> 
> I only played Gen 1 (to completion), Gen 2 (not to completion), and now part of Let's Go: Eevee.  Oh, and a ton of Pokemon Go.  
> 
> I'm interested in getting more into the series, but not really sure where to start/proceed.  Probably finish up Let's Go.


I genuinely think Sword and Shield are a great place to start for those of us who have been out of it for a while. My understanding is that there is a pokedex break: its not possible or necessary to go back to previous games to get all the pokemon available? Which is bad for long term players wanting to carry a team through, but presents a fresh start.

Also, as I said, this game is really selling me on the this is a major competition you are participating in in a way that previous didnt. Being on the Switch helps with that I think (Im playing on my projector!)

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Anyone know when Pokémon Go checks if it should send you Gifts? Its been inconsistent on whether I get a third drop for the day or not.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

This is how I think Mythical Pokemon should be captured. Instead of getting a Mythical Pokemon in stores as events, it should be included in the game as the very last Pokemon. When you catch all the Pokemon in the game you'll catch a mythical Pokemon at a specific place to capture it and it'll be included in the Pokedex.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

You know, this new COVID-19 strain, first detected in Britain...

Does that count as a Galarian form?

And do I have to catch both of them now to complete the dex?  :Small Eek:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Hey does Wall Pokemon makes other players upset and quit the game?  :Confused:

----------


## boj0

Yeah, stall teams are pretty good at getting people to rage quit. Battles tend to last longer, they wear your team down while recovering through anything you put out, and in general you're better off just forfeiting and finding quicker battles.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yeah, stall teams are pretty good at getting people to rage quit. Battles tend to last longer, they wear your team down while recovering through anything you put out, and in general you're better off just forfeiting and finding quicker battles.


The defense is very boring but yet quite effective.  :Smile:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Walling should honestly be nerfed some way, because it's just soooo annoying to be up against, and honestly not even that much fun to use. As long as it isn't nerfed though it is still an effective strategy and can even help against the opponent walling you. As the most effective teams are usually those with diverse strategies... I can recommend an unaware Quagsire with recover (rest is good for real anti-stall stall, but often too slow for regular use, so you want the 50% in one turn moves), scald (or toxic) and amnesia (EV's in hp and def) or stockpile. The last move is an almost free pick. Earthquake is good for direct damage, sandstorm kind of works for some extra chip damage. Something like Muddy Water works if the ruleset allows it. An additional buffing move or having both scald and toxic are options as well.

----------


## Silverraptor

I didn't know if I should have made a new thread or not about this, so I decided to just post it in this thread just in case.


*Spoiler: My thoughts*
Show


I am so ready for this! Pokemon Snap was one of my most favorite games on the N64! Whenever I told people this, they usually scoffed and asked me "why?" like I was crazy for gushing over a game that is generally slow pace and you can't fight pr train pokemon yourself. BUT THAT WASN'T THE POINT!!! I loved pokemon snap because at the time, you only had the 2d sprites of pokemon on your gameboys to interact with them. Sure there was also the anime, but that just illustrated how disconnected to the world of pokemon you were as an impressionable kid. This was the first time that not only was I able to see pokemon "alive" but I could interact with them, make them do different or unique things each playthrough depending on some of the actions I take. I really felt like I was seeing the pokemon interact in the wild and it just fascinated me to know end. I am so excited to see how they manage with this game, and it really looks like it is going to be gorgeous!

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I didn't know if I should have made a new thread or not about this, so I decided to just post it in this thread just in case.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler: My thoughts*
> Show
> 
> 
> I am so ready for this! Pokemon Snap was one of my most favorite games on the N64! Whenever I told people this, they usually scoffed and asked me "why?" like I was crazy for gushing over a game that is generally slow pace and you can't fight pr train pokemon yourself. BUT THAT WASN'T THE POINT!!! I loved pokemon snap because at the time, you only had the 2d sprites of pokemon on your gameboys to interact with them. Sure there was also the anime, but that just illustrated how disconnected to the world of pokemon you were as an impressionable kid. This was the first time that not only was I able to see pokemon "alive" but I could interact with them, make them do different or unique things each playthrough depending on some of the actions I take. I really felt like I was seeing the pokemon interact in the wild and it just fascinated me to know end. I am so excited to see how they manage with this game, and it really looks like it is going to be gorgeous!


Cool. I've heard about it.  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

You know you watch too-much Team Four Star when you see a giant Meganium come out of nowhere and you're first thoughts are "MUR-STEAK!"

----------


## PhantomFox

> You know you watch too-much Team Four Star when you see a giant Meganium come out of nowhere and you're first thoughts are "MUR-STEAK!"


*raises hand sheepishly*  Yup.  That was me too.

----------


## Rater202

> *raises hand sheepishly*  Yup.  That was me too.


TFS Nuzloxks are my primary means of consuming Pokemon media now days. It's affected my base perceptions of it.

Mr. Steak has completly supplanted all other examples of the Chikorita line in my brain.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> TFS Nuzloxks are my primary means of consuming Pokemon media now days. It's affected my base perceptions of it.
> 
> Mr. Steak has completly supplanted all other examples of the Chikorita line in my brain.


Meh. The TFS nuzlockes went downhill after their Johto one in my opinion. 

I mostly consume fan pokemon stuff or things inspired by pokemon more than actual pokemon stuff now. I can't replay the Alola games I have as that would delete all my mons, I know earlier games by heart and I'm not interested in doing a nuzlocke myself.

----------


## Rater202

> Meh. The TFS nuzlockes went downhill after their Johto one in my opinion. 
> 
> I mostly consume fan pokemon stuff or things inspired by pokemon more than actual pokemon stuff now. I can't replay the Alola games I have as that would delete all my mons, I know earlier games by heart and I'm not interested in doing a nuzlocke myself.


I mean, Jhoto was the best but I don't think I can say they went downhill per se.

Granted, the platinum playthrough was the first time I actually watched them in their entirety. I'd tried to start them but not focus. Watched Platinum more or less as it came out, then did leaf green, soul silver, and emerald in that order.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I mean, Jhoto was the best but I don't think I can say they went downhill per se.
> 
> Granted, the platinum playthrough was the first time I actually watched them in their entirety. I'd tried to start them but not focus. Watched Platinum more or less as it came out, then did leaf green, soul silver, and emerald in that order.


Then I'm sorry Rater, because I consider Platinum the worst of all of them, they just went way too arrogant and obnoxious in that one because they kept winning, while Leaf Green and Soul Silver had enough deaths to keep them humble so that they didn't just devolve into obnoxious competitors which took away from the humor. Emerald was decent though.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Walling should honestly be nerfed some way, because it's just soooo annoying to be up against, and honestly not even that much fun to use. As long as it isn't nerfed though it is still an effective strategy and can even help against the opponent walling you. As the most effective teams are usually those with diverse strategies... I can recommend an unaware Quagsire with recover (rest is good for real anti-stall stall, but often too slow for regular use, so you want the 50% in one turn moves), scald (or toxic) and amnesia (EV's in hp and def) or stockpile. The last move is an almost free pick. Earthquake is good for direct damage, sandstorm kind of works for some extra chip damage. Something like Muddy Water works if the ruleset allows it. An additional buffing move or having both scald and toxic are options as well.


I think Walling is ok. They don't need to be nerfed that much. Sure it's annoying for many players who don't like long battles but it's still a very useful and effective strategy. But that just my opinion.

----------


## danzibr

Well... I pretty much have no idea of what people are talking about, having only seen bits and pieces of the shows and played Fire Red and Let's Go Eevee, just came to say I'm playing a lot of PoGo and liking it.

Groudon and Kyogre in raids tomorrow!

----------


## Spore

> I think Walling is ok. They don't need to be nerfed that much. Sure it's annoying for many players who don't like long battles but it's still a very useful and effective strategy. But that just my opinion.


That is one of the few reasons I never got into online Pokemon. Walling is a decent strat, sure, but when it devolves into wall mirrors, I am about as enticed as a control mirror in trading card games (aka removing the enemy's ability to end the game while waiting for your option to win). Plus it takes away too much free time - which is a weird but viable point. I won't play an hour long pokemon duel. I can maybe afford two of those games a day (and I am blessed with free time others could dream of), but then I tire of it.

But seeing as a noob, didn't Z moves and Gigamax cut down the viability of walling strategies? Granted I entered the competitive scene as audience back in 4th gen, where walling Blissey was prominent.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I have just sort of completed a casual challenge run in White 2. It's a good game for that sort of thing. The only obligatory HM use is Strength on victory road, the level scaling seems pretty decent, the experience system helps a bit against small teams overleveling too much, despite the weird 3D effects every now and then the world looks good, and it's the last generation where the mechanics were not centralized around a big new concept that would be scrapped a generation and a half down the road, so it plays rather timeless. The AI is also surprisingly decent, when it learns I have a Water Absorb mon I can switch in for instance it stops using Surf. (A trade-off I happily abuse to its disadvantage, but it's cool to see.)

But how do you sort of complete a challenge? Well, the goal here was to beat the game with my "if I was an NPC"-team (that's also designed to work under Battle Palace rules) (yes, that's a weird concept for a team) consisting of my favorite pokémon Rhydon and Quagsire with certain moves and held items and such. The goal of the team design was to max out their teamwork in a double battle basically, rather than their effectiveness. They don't run particularly good sets, but they're still both rather decent mon you would think. To beat the champion, not only did I switch out those held items for leftovers and a shell bell (I never picked up the eviolite), I also resorted to emulator save state scumming, saving between enemy pokémon during the match (because I wanted to do a run with cheated-in Pokémon I was on an emulator anyway). I did not give in to the temptation of using trainer items in battle, nor did I use switch battle style, but still, I had to cheat to beat the champion with pokémon of (at the end of the battle) level 68 and 69, ten levels higher than the champion's ace at 59.

I curiously thought back of a runthrough of Red I had done using Rhydon and Nidoking years ago, a pretty similar pair. I looked up the save, from 2011 it turns out. So yes, I used shift battle style, and I may have allowed in battle items, but I don't see any evidence of using save states during the battle. I also looked up the levels of these guys, level 54 and 59, where 59 was also the level of the weakest mon the champion in that game used. Sure, gen 1 opponents used horrible movesets, but in terms of levels he was still more powerful then the champion I just sort of beat.

So, I did it at levels 54 and 59 then, at levels 68 and 69 now.

I must therefore conclude that rather distressingly over the course of the last decade I have become over ten levels worse at playing Pokémon games. :Small Eek:  :Small Big Grin: 

*Spoiler: (The details of my (current) team, for chronically curious people.)*
Show

Dash
Rhydon (M) @ Pecha Berry  
Ability: Lightning Rod 
EVs: full HP, half Atk and SpD
Hasty Nature
- Rock Polish (synergy with mud shot, setup for sweeps)
- Smack Down (allows mud shot and drill run to hit)
- Surf  (hits all adjacent pokémon, heals Quagsire)
- Drill Run (damage)

Slap
Quagsire (M) @ Soft Sand  
Ability: Water Absorb  
EVs: full HP, half Atk and SpD
Hasty Nature
- Sandstorm (raises Rhydon's SpD, for finishing off tiny slivers of health and gaining some extra advantage)
- Mud Shot (synergy with rock polish, damage raised by soft sand)
- Sludge Wave (coverage against grass, hits all adjacent pokémon but Rhydon double resistant with pecha berry)
- Waterfall (damage)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> That is one of the few reasons I never got into online Pokemon. Walling is a decent strat, sure, but when it devolves into wall mirrors, I am about as enticed as a control mirror in trading card games (aka removing the enemy's ability to end the game while waiting for your option to win). Plus it takes away too much free time - which is a weird but viable point. I won't play an hour long pokemon duel. I can maybe afford two of those games a day (and I am blessed with free time others could dream of), but then I tire of it.
> 
> But seeing as a noob, didn't Z moves and Gigamax cut down the viability of walling strategies? Granted I entered the competitive scene as audience back in 4th gen, where walling Blissey was prominent.


I hear that wailing Bllissey was great back in the older generations.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I hear that wailing Bllissey was great back in the older generations.


Walling Blissey is/was (some game design decisions lessened the issue a little I think) even "great" in Pokémon Go. No status moves, no abilities, no separate special defense stats, just its HP stat was enough to run out the clock and bore all opponents to death. Blissey is probably the best example of why walling can be so terrible.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Walling Blissey is/was (some game design decisions lessened the issue a little I think) even "great" in Pokémon Go. No status moves, no abilities, no separate special defense stats, just its HP stat was enough to run out the clock and bore all opponents to death. Blissey is probably the best example of why walling can be so terrible.


That's true. Even so Blissey is still a good Pokemon.

----------


## Rater202

So... I still want the "humans combined with Pokemon" side game.

We've got Bill accidentally fusing with a Pokemon in a teleporter accident.

We've got the whole thing with Detective Pikachu.

We have Cara Liss's fossils fusing multiple Mon into one organism.

In the anime, there's even that magic spell that turned Ash into a talking Pikachu.

I know that the idea of human/pokemon hybrids is a thing in the fandom but there does seem to be enough precedent in the series to do it in canon, if only in a side game.

I have the mental image of a girl who appears to be a solid indistinct shadow, except for her facial features which are distinguishable with her eyes and the mouth visible and shredded in smoke who thinks she's dead now becuase she's been combined with the traits of a ghastly, a girl fused with an Evee who is desperately trying to find a water stone becuase she wants to be a mermaid and thinks that the experiments will be worth it if she can get close, and a boy turned into living magma after being fused with a slugma who is desperate for either a cure or a suit that can contain his body heat becuase he's desperate for human contact wandering around in a forest after escaping the facility they were taken to and experimented on and trying to find their way to civilization so they can whistleblow on the people who ran the lab.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So... I still want the "humans combined with Pokemon" side game.
> 
> We've got Bill accidentally fusing with a Pokemon in a teleporter accident.
> 
> We've got the whole thing with Detective Pikachu.
> 
> We have Cara Liss's fossils fusing multiple Mon into one organism.
> 
> In the anime, there's even that magic spell that turned Ash into a talking Pikachu.
> ...


It was done.....in a manga thing. I forget which one, but a guy has this stone and fused with a.....ah here it is: Burst a special technique from a pokemon manga clal Pokemon ReBurst that allows one to combine with a pokemon. those who can use it are known as Burst Warriors.  you need a Burst Heart for it.

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## Rater202

> It was done.....in a manga thing. I forget which one, but a guy has this stone and fused with a.....ah here it is: Burst a special technique from a pokemon manga clal Pokemon ReBurst that allows one to combine with a pokemon. those who can use it are known as Burst Warriors.  you need a Burst Heart for it.


Thjat's not quite what I'm going for.

I'm looking at more "permanent fusion and/or mutation by gene splice" not  "magically fuse with Pokemon to gain its powers by wearing it as armor."

Less Sentai/Magical Girl, more Cyber/Biopunk. (Pokepunk?)

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Thjat's not quite what I'm going for.
> 
> I'm looking at more "permanent fusion and/or mutation by gene splice" not  "magically fuse with Pokemon to gain its powers by wearing it as armor."
> 
> Less Sentai/Magical Girl, more Cyber/Biopunk. (Pokepunk?)


I mean I don't know about you Rater, that sounds like its own new setting all by itself. I think its pretty clear after 20+ years after introducing and kind toying around with the concept that they'll never actually have the courage to do that. cyberpunk anything is too unsafe for a franchise like pokemon- its too kid unfriendly. the only way that happening is if I/you/we do it ourselves. if they were going to do that, they'd do it already.

----------


## Rater202

Well, I don't think I can do it myself. I don't have a good track record of games I start... surviving, if I can attract enough interest in the first place.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Well, I don't think I can do it myself. I don't have a good track record of games I start... surviving, if I can attract enough interest in the first place.


Right. Guess I'll have to come up with something then. will have to start brainstorming.

----------


## Rater202

> Right. Guess I'll have to come up with something then. will have to start brainstorming.


Ideas aren't a problem--original region with lots of wilderness, a variety of pokemon, and the league/local economy is dominated by a megacorporation that makes medicine and bio-tech and is also a leading expert in the biology of various pokemon.

Maybe also the region's source of revived fossils.

(And, since trading isn't an option when the trainers and pokemon are one in the same, something something way to simulate the conditions of a trade that result in evolution.)

Then it's just "what are the major cities like" and "how far into the punk genre do we want to go."

Also where on the scale of anthropomorphism the hybrids are--my preference is that they're human enough to be obviously people but Mon enough that the fact that they'll probably be struggling with having clothes due to a combination of bodily changes and being in the wilderness isn't a big deal.

The problem is getting enough people who want to play it and keeping the game running.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Eh, thats thinking small to me. give me some time, I'll come up with something.

----------


## Rater202

Also whether or no the protagonists are literally fused with a Pokemon, combined with a pokemon's body via the same tech behind fossil revival, or if it's a playing with syringes situation.

Als, now that I think about it: If it's going full Punk the government/corp is the bad guy so "the 'Team' are the good guys in this one" might be a neat subversion of things.

My Mental Image is "Team Salad" who the media slanders as eco-terrorists or an "animal wrongs group" but are really just a bunch of people who are suspicious of the Corp's activities and are willing to branch into vigilante justice and breaking and entering to figure out what the Corp is really up to.

(They call themselves Team Salad becuase the founding members really like a good Salad and they figured that every other team gets to just pick the name they like so why not they.)

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Also whether or no the protagonists are literally fused with a Pokemon, combined with a pokemon's body via the same tech behind fossil revival, or if it's a playing with syringes situation.
> 
> Als, now that I think about it: If it's going full Punk the government/corp is the bad guy so "the 'Team' are the good guys in this one" might be a neat subversion of things.
> 
> My Mental Image is "Team Salad" who the media slanders as eco-terrorists or an "animal wrongs group" but are really just a bunch of people who are suspicious of the Corp's activities and are willing to branch into vigilante justice and breaking and entering to figure out what the Corp is really up to.
> 
> (They call themselves Team Salad becuase the founding members really like a good Salad and they figured that every other team gets to just pick the name they like so why not they.)


And if we were talking about making a videogame that would be all the setting and plot we'd need to make the most original and daring pokemon game of all time.

unfortunately, we're talking about making a roleplaying setting. which has different needs. the appeal needs to be wider in various ways: more regions, more variations on how such a society might turn out, more enemies in case the players go in directions one does not expect, more details on all the conflicts such hybrids would cause and such and so on, and the pokemon setting itself needs fleshing out so as to better make sense geographically, historically,  what the difference between playing someone from one region or another is, what mons are favored in which environment, a lot of things. most roleplaying settings are fun and successful because of their wide scope and having a lot of things to use and play around with. your ideas are fine they are just too narrow and focused on blindly imitating the source without considering the differences between the mediums. a videogame can afford to have a railroad plot with only one enemy organization in a single sparsely detailed out region because of design limitations. we on the other hand are only limited by our imagination.

----------


## Rater202

> And if we were talking about making a videogame that would be all the setting and plot we'd need to make the most original and daring pokemon game of all time.
> 
> unfortunately, we're talking about making a roleplaying setting. which has different needs. the appeal needs to be wider in various ways: more regions, more variations on how such a society might turn out, more enemies in case the players go in directions one does not expect, more details on all the conflicts such hybrids would cause and such and so on, and the pokemon setting itself needs fleshing out so as to better make sense geographically, historically,  what the difference between playing someone from one region or another is, what mons are favored in which environment, a lot of things. most roleplaying settings are fun and successful because of their wide scope and having a lot of things to use and play around with. your ideas are fine they are just too narrow and focused on blindly imitating the source without considering the differences between the mediums. a videogame can afford to have a railroad plot with only one enemy organization in a single sparsely detailed out region because of design limitations. we on the other hand are only limited by our imagination.


Yeah, but "base setting, bad guys, and other factions" is the starting point...

I honestly wasn't figuring making a whole game, I figure it'd be a contained roleplay.

I figure that if it goes out of the starting region you could just use the pre-existing regions from canon adapted as necessary.\

...Though now that you're talking about imagination as the only limit I'm imagining a group of six kids/young adults being forced to register as a single team of combined trainer and pokemon and run the entire Pokemon Leage as if they were th Pokemon in order to get a meeting with the Elite 4, who are the only people with the clout to actually do anything about the Mea Corp.

"The courts ruled that you're human in X, Y, and Z way, which means you're safe, but you're pokemon in A, B, and C way which means there are some hoops you have to jump through to get your allegations heard by the only authority who can do anything about it...."  with the cyberpunk elements being breaking into various corp owned institutions along the way to collect evidence.

Just go full crack with it.

----------


## Mark Hall

Introduced my 5 year old to Pokemon Go today. He's already an addict.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Yeah, but "base setting, bad guys, and other factions" is the starting point...
> 
> I honestly wasn't figuring making a whole game, I figure it'd be a contained roleplay.
> 
> I figure that if it goes out of the starting region you could just use the pre-existing regions from canon adapted as necessary.\
> 
> ...Though now that you're talking about imagination as the only limit I'm imagining a group of six kids/young adults being forced to register as a single team of combined trainer and pokemon and run the entire Pokemon Leage as if they were th Pokemon in order to get a meeting with the Elite 4, who are the only people with the clout to actually do anything about the Mea Corp.
> 
> "The courts ruled that you're human in X, Y, and Z way, which means you're safe, but you're pokemon in A, B, and C way which means there are some hoops you have to jump through to get your allegations heard by the only authority who can do anything about it...."  with the cyberpunk elements being breaking into various corp owned institutions along the way to collect evidence.
> ...


Maybe its my personal style, but for some reason I'm not too big on contained stuff. trying to be minimalist just never works with me, I know they say less is more but....when it comes this kind of thing, I go all out and make sure there are tons of things to something or I just won't be interested at all. I like to get lost in the complexity and the beautiful details.

----------


## Rater202

> Introduced my 5 year old to Pokemon Go today. He's already an addict.


I hope yu know that you're gonna be supporting that addiction for years.



> Maybe its my personal style, but for some reason I'm not too big on contained stuff. trying to be minimalist just never works with me, I know they say less is more but....when it comes this kind of thing, I go all out and make sure there are tons of things to something or I just won't be interested at all. I like to get lost in the complexity and the beautiful details.


Yeah, but...

Like in the Naruto game, most of the setting details for the alternate history were made up after the game proper started.

I think getting the setting functional is more important that figuring every little thing out right away.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I hope yu know that you're gonna be supporting that addiction for years.
> 
> 
> Yeah, but...
> 
> Like in the Naruto game, most of the setting details for the alternate history were made up after the game proper started.
> 
> I think getting the setting functional is more important that figuring every little thing out right away.


Okay. I get ya.

Unfortunately that changes my complaint to "I don't want to be apart of a team called Salad and I don't like the basis presented".

----------


## Rater202

> Okay. I get ya.
> 
> Unfortunately, that changes my complaint to "I don't want to be apart of a team called Salad and I don't like the basis presented".


I figure Team Salad would either be a background detail or an exploitable resource depending on how things go, not a group the PCs join.

Like, at most it would be like how in the Hoenn games you team up with whichever team is least crazy in this version to stop the ones that are about to wreck the planet in a misguided attempt to save it. You don't join Team Aqua to defeat Team Magma or vice versa, you just...

Can't do anything about the basic premise though.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Can't do anything about the basic premise though.


Agh, this is whats so frustrating sometimes talking with you Rater, you propose a great idea that has potential to change up the world and provide a whole bunch of directions this could go but then you decide to limit things to painting by the numbers because your so canon-clingy. don't get me wrong your still enjoyable, but come on. I've already come up with ideas like "empire ruled by hybrid dragon kings", and busy wondering how a region is ruled and what their armies consist of, speculating ways of how the hybridization could work without harming actual pokemon, etc. 

regardless, I haven't come up with a character thats on par with Jade or Kimiko for the concept yet so.....until I do....

----------


## Rater202

> Agh, this is whats so frustrating sometimes talking with you Rater, you propose a great idea that has potential to change up the world and provide a whole bunch of directions this could go but then you decide to limit things to painting by the numbers because your so canon-clingy. don't get me wrong your still enjoyable, but come on. I've already come up with ideas like "empire ruled by hybrid dragon kings", and busy wondering how a region is ruled and what their armies consist of, speculating ways of how the hybridization could work without harming actual pokemon, etc. 
> 
> regardless, I haven't come up with a character thats on par with Jade or Kimiko for the concept yet so.....until I do....


I mean, the basic premise is "corporation hybridizes humans with Pokemon against there will, how do they cope?"

That sounds more like "the corp has been overthrown but their technology has propagated to be used by others, this is how things are after that's been normalized."

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## Lord Raziere

> I mean, the basic premise is "corporation hybridizes humans with Pokemon against there will, how do they cope?"
> 
> That sounds more like "the corp has been overthrown but their technology has propagated to be used by others, this is how things are after that's been normalized."


See, you went from a 2 to 100 there, and focused too much on the recent history.

I was more thinking that it'd be a known technology around the world and have affected history in various ways and corps are just one of the people using them. but then again maybe I just want to make my own setting, and maybe I didn't catch what you actually meant. but if its still 99% normal pokemon setting thats a completely thing than what I had in mind.

----------


## Rater202

> See, you went from a 2 to 100 there, and focused too much on the recent history.
> 
> I was more thinking that it'd be a known technology around the world and have affected history in various ways and corps are just one of the people using them. but then again maybe I just want to make my own setting, and maybe I didn't catch what you actually meant. but if its still 99% normal pokemon setting thats a completely thing than what I had in mind.


Yeah, I was thinking "the PCs are victims of mad scientists and this is recent tech that only this one unethical megacorp has."

That's not to say that a game couldn't progress over time to the point that the technology that created the PCs doesn't get used later by less evil people once the corp is defeated and we move from Punk to Post-Punk, but the "trying to cope with being changed against your will and how you deal with the changes" is the key issue a least for the initial storyline.

"Dynasty of dragon-pokemon hybrid royals" is a bit too much "this has been around for a while and is normalized" for what I'm thinking, at least at first.

As for ways this works... honestly, I figure that "take stem cells from a ditto, splice them with genes from the actual mon we want, inject them into the subject, and then put them into machine that combines the same regeneration technology used to revive fossils with a simulated gestalt of the radiation emitted by various evolution stones" if you don't want actual fusions.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Well I'd still have to come up with a pretty good character concept before anything is done, a singular one this time, not characters that in retrospect felt half-baked like Astraea and Kinita. those will need work whenever I revisit them.

----------


## Qwertystop

Not quite the sort of thing you're going for, but lately I've been reading a fic called Arbitrary Execution and, on the whole, I think it does a lot of things quite well.

----------


## Rater202

> Well I'd still have to come up with a pretty good character concept before anything is done, a singular one this time, not characters that in retrospect felt half-baked like Astraea and Kinita. those will need work whenever I revisit them.


My only requests is that if we're serious about doing this, starting characters should be late teens to young adult and the pokemon they're hybridized with should be something you could see as someone's starter--one of the regional starts, an Eevee, Pikachu or its regional counterparts, the first form of moderately powerful three-stage evolution, that kind of thing.



> Not quite the sort of thing you're going for, but lately I've been reading a fic called Arbitrary Execution and, on the whole, I think it does a lot of things quite well.


Thank you for the rec, three chapters in it seems interesting.

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## Lord Raziere

> My only requests is that if we're serious about doing this, starting characters should be late teens to young adult and the pokemon they're hybridized with should be something you could see as someone's starter--one of the regional starts, an Eevee, Pikachu or its regional counterparts, the first form of moderately powerful three-stage evolution, that kind of thing.


I mean sure but....given the theme of coping with the change you stated previously, your leaving it kind of open to "oh no I'm this cute anthro hybrid of a pokemon everyone loves, how horrible /end sarcasm." aka the cursed with awesome problem.

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## Rater202

> I mean sure but....given the theme of coping with the change you stated previously, your leaving it kind of open to "oh no I'm this cute anthro hybrid of a pokemon everyone loves, how horrible /end sarcasm." aka the cursed with awesome problem.


I mean, yeah. That's a viable option.

dysphoria and dysmorphia of various kinds can make something that would seem awesome or cool in theory feel terrible in practice.

Not that I'm expecting everyone to do that if this ever ends up being a thing, but a deep-seated perception that they are now in the wrong body or hyper-focusing on some kind of flaw or problem they have with their new form and needing therapy, a reversal of the process, or some other treatment to feel normal again is just as viable as deciding that being part Squirtle is cool and trying to go back to their normal life once they can or deciding "screw it" and living out their life in the wild becuase being part Alolan Vulpix means that they now have the option to live in the wilderness when they couldn't before are.

----------


## Saambell

I feel that kind of story and loose mechanics would be far better suited to a game using the Golden Sun engine/gameplay style then a standard pokemon style. Each character has a mon they are turned into(character class) which they unlock more of the mons abilities as they level, and gene therapy by way of found medicine would be equipment. Special gene splicing would unlock evolution(character class upgrades) or change you into an entirely new mon(class change). The engine would also be a lot better suited to a story focused jrpg then the normal pokemon engine. You could even port over the Djinn system by having the characters use their human status to carry pokeballs which they use to call full blooded mons to do special attacks. 

I would also put forth that if you are going to focus on the negative sides of being turned into a pokemon, I would suggest it being more stranger or awkward mons, not the familiar and cute starters. Imagine the horror of being turned into a Koffing or a Magnemite. Especially in the cases of early on to give the characters drive to get this fixed. If you want to explore the "maybe its not all bad" side, have a plot based upgrade of a character from a nasty mon into an actually cool or cute mon, and have them question their drive to continue. And to keep them on, maybe set them up being real close to one of the other party members, and use their compassion for them as a push. The starting as weird or awkward mons also means you have places to go in terms of leveling up and class changes. Starting the game as a Rattata but ending the game as an Absol would be a great way to feel like you have come far and made progress.

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## Lord Raziere

> I feel that kind of story and loose mechanics would be far better suited to a game using the Golden Sun engine/gameplay style then a standard pokemon style. Each character has a mon they are turned into(character class) which they unlock more of the mons abilities as they level, and gene therapy by way of found medicine would be equipment. Special gene splicing would unlock evolution(character class upgrades) or change you into an entirely new mon(class change). The engine would also be a lot better suited to a story focused jrpg then the normal pokemon engine. You could even port over the Djinn system by having the characters use their human status to carry pokeballs which they use to call full blooded mons to do special attacks. 
> 
> I would also put forth that if you are going to focus on the negative sides of being turned into a pokemon, I would suggest it being more stranger or awkward mons, not the familiar and cute starters. Imagine the horror of being turned into a Koffing or a Magnemite. Especially in the cases of early on to give the characters drive to get this fixed. If you want to explore the "maybe its not all bad" side, have a plot based upgrade of a character from a nasty mon into an actually cool or cute mon, and have them question their drive to continue. And to keep them on, maybe set them up being real close to one of the other party members, and use their compassion for them as a push. The starting as weird or awkward mons also means you have places to go in terms of leveling up and class changes. Starting the game as a Rattata but ending the game as an Absol would be a great way to feel like you have come far and made progress.


First of all we do freeform, so mechanics aren't really our concern.

But see Rater, this at least is something creative and taking into account the changes involved in a logical manner rather than just Just One Changing it and hoping it works out by sticking to canon. This is the kind of thing someone has to think about when changing it up, because often you can't just have one change, there are domino effects as well as support structures to enable a premise to work. your not going to get what you want unless have that connective tissue that really makes things work.

and here is the thing: why is a company making pokemon hybrids in the first place? for what purpose? even a mad scientist must have a reason for doing what they do because even they must give a reason why they must get funding from the corp to do their crazy experiment- in short the corporation must expect some way to turn a profit with it. which ironically incentivizes the scientist to figure out a way to make the transformation desirable to a consumer. after all they technically do not need to do this for any pragmatic or practical reason- anything that can be achieved by a pokemon hybrid could probably be achieved much easier by using a normal pokemon trained for the job.

that and you must take into account the culture of pokemon-verse. there are tons of kids and pokemaniacs who DRESS UP as pokemon in the games. pokemon itself is from the culture that _invented_ nekomimi. the public reaction to a pokemon hybrid particularly if they are cute probably wouldn't be very X-men-like or hateful at all. it would be more along the lines of "oh your half pokemon? sugoi! your so kawaii! I have this total pokemaniac friend could you tell him how you got like this?"

----------


## Rater202

Why do Cyber/Biopunk Megacorps do _anything_?

Either they think they can make money on it or they're secretly trying to make supersoldiers for the sake of black hat corporate warfare. Usually both.

The fact that most people would think that the tech is cool just guarantees that the treatments will be profitable once perfected, but you can't just test this on volunteers, rapidly deconstructing and rebuilding a living body in ways that might make the person no longer organic(most rock, ground, and steel types)  so you kidnap some people who wandered into places they shouldn't have and do the testing under the table and fake up the docs later.

Odds are, the PCs wouldn't be the first people tested on, they'd just be the first ones to survive the procedure.

And if we're going full punk with it, it's likely that the Region's Government are in the pocket of one or more corporations, so going up and saying.

And on downsides... Yeah, you look all cool and kawaii. But you probably have new instincts to get used to. You're still mostly humanoid, but your flesh might be made of stone or metal or plant matter and you might have extra limbs or a tail to get used to... You might have been fused with a parasitic fungus that's infecting the mindless bug-man that used to be most of your body.

One of my examples was a boy fused with a slugma who wants either a cure or a suit that can contain his body heat becuase he _can't touch anyone._

Even if you don't develop sensations of dysphoria, dysmorphia, or other "this is something wrong with my body" issues, that's gonna take getting used to.

Even if someone gets to be a cool Mon and wants to keep the changes, there could still be issues: A rock or fire typo might have trouble with personal hygiene due to sensitivity to water. The young woman who still has the Eevee Kigarumi they wore in her Pokekid days might be psyched that she now has the traits of her favorite Pokemon, but all that fluffy fur might get uncomfortably warm.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I have just sort of completed a casual challenge run in White 2. ... To beat the champion, not only did I switch out those held items for leftovers and a shell bell (I never picked up the eviolite), I also resorted to emulator save state scumming, saving between enemy pokémon during the match (because I wanted to do a run with cheated-in Pokémon I was on an emulator anyway). ... I must therefore conclude that rather distressingly over the course of the last decade I have become over ten levels worse at playing Pokémon games. (Go to original post for full text.)


Update: got it legit within my own rules by grinding another half level or so before the elite four and trying the champion fight a bunch of times. Some unlucky XP distribution (read: a very nice and lucky sweep by one of these guys, I'll take it) saw both of my mon juuuust ticking over into level 69 and 70 respectively, so I must now amend my conclusion: I am at least eleven levels worse at Pokémon than I was a decade ago.

I even actually thought of recording my battles somewhere halfway through my tries today, so I have the successful run saved.

----------


## Rater202

Re: Pokepunk

Doing research, I think the Machop Evolutionary Family is a good example for illustrating what I'm talking about.

It's a relatively well-known pokemon. Relative well-liked, and a hybrid of human and mon using a Machoke is going to be almost completly humanoid-0-you'd probably just look like a muscular human with very slight reptilian traits and weird skin color.

But, based on Pokedex entries, the Machop evolutionary line is compelled to do constant weight training and instinctively seeks to study every kind of martial art it can find in a tireless quest to become stronger even though it already has absurd superhuman strength.

If you're already a muscle head or martial arts fanatic this might be a dream come true, but for anyone else, the compulsion and instincts might feel unnatural and cause problems.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

If I was a Pokemon, I would be Magikarp.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

The issues that come to my mind are more practical concerns like fleas (fur), stairs (anything without human proportioned legs and feet), or anything else that was designed for humans exclusively - can someone with crab hands or bug exoskeleton fingers manage a touch screen, for example? Admittedly some of that depends on how you set up your setting.

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## Rater202

I mean, if we're talking about what Pokemon _we'd_ be I'd probably be a Snorlax.

I'm a big fat guy that's constantly tired and/or hungry, mostly just wants to sleep, and it takes me seventeen years to get out of bed.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

What Pokémon we'd be, poeh...

I'm definitely a bit like both of my favorites, Rhydon and Quagsire, but I may not actually be cool enough to be either of those. Or well, cool may be the wrong word, especially in Quagsire's case. I would also like the ground and water types, though preferably in that order, as I'm not much of a fish. I'm guessing I would be somewhere in the general Surf-Strength-Bulldoze space. Maybe a giant Bibarel, or the illusive male Miltank, of like a Beartic but as in those pictures where it looks kind of dopey rather than the pictures where it looks like an absolute rockstar making you wish it was a better mon to use so you'd use it all the time. Something like that. Or maybe just a Rhydon who was raised by Quagsires, that might work. Slap a Rain Dance on there or something and call it a day.

----------


## Fable Wright

I thiiiiiink I'd be a Kadabra.

Abra's pokedex entry:



> Sleeps 18 hours a day. If it senses danger, it will teleport itself to safety even as it sleeps.
> 
> It can teleport itself to safety while it's asleep, but when it wakes, it doesn't know where it is, so it panics.


This was me as a teenager.

Kadabra:




> Many odd things happen if this Pokémon is close by. For example, it makes clocks run backwards.
> 
> If one is nearby, an eerie shadow appears on TV screens. Seeing the shadow is said to bring bad luck.


This level of tech issue is endemic to me right now.

----------


## Mark Hall

In Pokemon Go, does anyone have any idea what the guidelines are for what level of pokeball you need for what strength of wild pokemon?

----------


## Emmerlaus

If I was a Pokémon, I would probably be... Toucannon? Come from annoying hyperactive and noisy woodpecker line, becomes grumpy looking as final evolution but yet gentlemen looking. Im a heat source and prefer high places and fresh air. Maybe I would be Driftblim though so its one or the other.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> In Pokemon Go, does anyone have any idea what the guidelines are for what level of pokeball you need for what strength of wild pokemon?


Depends on the species I think. But check the circle youre throwing at; if its green for a given Pokeball/Pokémon combination odds are good youll catch it. The circle will shade into yellow, then orange, then red and the closer to red the harder it is to catch. Note that Razz Berries will make things easier as will Nice Great and Excellent throws (the harder the throw bonus is to accomplish the better the bonus).

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## Lvl 2 Expert

Also, catch bonuses stack. Getting an excellent throw adds around as much to your success chance as using an ultra ball, but doing both is better, and making an excellent curve throw with an ultra ball after feeding a golden razz berry is a lot better again. The best thing you can do to catch faster is practice curve balls. Yes, it feels really counter-intuitive at first. Practice on pokémon with large circles if you can, like 4 and 5 star raids.

----------


## Rater202

> Not quite the sort of thing you're going for, but lately I've been reading a fic called Arbitrary Execution and, on the whole, I think it does a lot of things quite well.


As I have just finished reading the story in question...

Very much recommending it. It's not the best fanfic I've ever read, but it's definitely in the top ten.

I sympathized with the protagonist, For parts of it I was on the edge of my seat, and parts of it made me cry. All of the elements of a good read.

It's also a very interesting twist on a familiar setting. Some of the setting details are a little iffy, but...

Honestly, I like how they reimagine Team Rocket, so...

If anyone is looking for a read.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> What Pokémon we'd be,


Actually, the move I would possibly like to have most in any kind of real life situation is String Shot. It's pretty bad in the games, but in reality it would mean an infinite supply of rope, plus basically super knot powers. I can go abseiling, tower building, car towing, tree slinging. With a proper mold* you could even shoot up your own clothes, what a time saver!** Yeah, flying is objectively cooler, but String Shot is more me. My main problem is that pretty much all Pokémon that learn it are, well, not my idea of what I want to be when I grow up. It's not a TM, but there is a move tutor in Heartgold/Soulsilver who can teach the move to a few cooler mon, like Pinsir and Armaldo. Armaldo has the kind of stat balance I would see myself with, its type weaknesses are pretty reasonable, the ability Battle Armor is fitting enough, even the Pokéathlon stats are quite me. Having no hands wouldn't be a problem right? I can work with being one of the cooler fossil Pokémon. Assuming the move tutor ever learned about later generations something like Golisopod might even be an option.

However, there is a problem.




> I'm guessing I would be somewhere in the general Surf-Strength-Bulldoze space.


There is exactly one Pokémon who can (thanks to the aforementioned move tutor) learn String Shot and all three of these moves, or even anything close to this package. It has both the ground and the water type, a good "me" color scheme (East mostly, although West is not too bad either), some pretty good ability options and it is even not completely competitively unviable.*** It is essentially the perfect spider-manning, earth moving, rapid running explorer.

Skid my life, I think I might be a Gastrodon.****

*=If no Rampardos comes along to break it.
**=Especially if you are some sort of deformed human-pokémon hybrid who doesn't fit in any regular sizes.
***=As a scald-recover staller.
****=I guess you could accuse me of being a bit of a slime ball sometimes, but this is ridiculous.

----------


## Qwertystop

> Actually, the move I would possibly like to have most in any kind of real life situation is String Shot. It's pretty bad in the games, but in reality it would mean an infinite supply of rope, plus basically super knot powers. I can go abseiling, tower building, car towing, tree slinging. With a proper mold* you could even shoot up your own clothes, what a time saver!** Yeah, flying is objectively cooler, but String Shot is more me. My main problem is that pretty much all Pokémon that learn it are, well, not my idea of what I want to be when I grow up. It's not a TM, but there is a move tutor in Heartgold/Soulsilver who can teach the move to a few cooler mon, like Pinsir and Armaldo. Armaldo has the kind of stat balance I would see myself with, its type weaknesses are pretty reasonable, the ability Battle Armor is fitting enough, even the Pokéathlon stats are quite me. Having no hands wouldn't be a problem right? I can work with being one of the cooler fossil Pokémon. Assuming the move tutor ever learned about later generations something like Golisopod might even be an option.
> 
> However, there is a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> There is exactly one Pokémon who can (thanks to the aforementioned move tutor) learn String Shot and all three of these moves, or even anything close to this package. It has both the ground and the water type, a good "me" color scheme (East mostly, although West is not too bad either), some pretty good ability options and it is even not completely competitively unviable.*** It is essentially the perfect spider-manning, earth moving, rapid running explorer.
> 
> Skid my life, I think I might be a Gastrodon.****
> ...


Oh, neat, I didn't know Veekun had searches like that!

----------


## Rater202

Thought exercise.

A genie appears before you and says "Hey, I will let you use every Pokemon Move of one specific type in real life, based mostly on depictions in the videogames but with liberties taken as necessary becuase real life doesn't have stats and hitpoints."

The rules are as follows: You can use each move a number of times equal to the maximum possible amount of PP that a pokemon could have for that move. Once depleted, you either need to switch to another move or take a nap.

The move behaves as if you were a Pokemon of the same type as the move(so, in-game terms, STAB applies), with the highest possible stat in the stat that determines its function(so a special damaging move would assume you have maxed out Special Attack,) if there is an ability that would increase the power or effectiveness of the move, it is assumed that you have it(but only for the purposes of boosting the move.) If there is an item that boosts the effectiveness of the move, it is assumed that you have it(though you do not actually have it.) If there is more than one ability or item that boosts that move, you are assumed to have the best of each for the sake of that move.

This is done on an individual move basis.

If there are differences in how the move works across generations, you get what you personally consider the best version of the move. Again, this is on an individual move basis.

"Curse" here counts as a Ghost Type Move, but you can optionally have it behave as if you are a non-ghost type if that is the version you prefer.

"Every move of the type" includes Z-Moves, Max Moves, G-Max Moves, Judgement and other moves that change type by circumstances, and any move that counts as duel type for the type you've chosen, with the caveat that when you use it is only counts as your type. It also includes all moves taught by HM, TM, TR, Tutor or any other way of learning a move that isn't "level up" or "know it on hatching." In short "every move" is every move.

You intuitively and instinctively know what moves you have and how many times you can use each of them until you need to rest to replenish your uses of them. You are not restricted to four at a time, you have access to all of them always. Z-moves, Max Moves, and G-Max Moves are counted separately from their base forms for purposes of uses per day. If it can be based on more than one move, it is based on whichever move would result in the strongest versionG-Max Cannonade, for example, would be based on Hydrocanon.

Types behave the way they do under Pokemon Logic. For example, you can Thunderbolt a rock or a concrete wall or a pile of dirt all you want but it won't do anything becuase in Pokemon Logic ground and rock are immune to electricity even though in real life a bolt of lightning would blast a rock apart.

What type do you pick and why? I'm curious to know.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Psychic type.

mind over matter. I can teleport, hypnotize people into falling asleep, lift things with my mind, use rest to go to sleep on command to my bad habit of staying up too much, plus there are no ghost types in real life while the dark typing is based on an abstract conception of evil that cannot technically be said to exist. the only weakness would be bugs and I don't like those things anyways.

either that or normal type, just so I can get Metronome and troll people by essentially playing roulette with my pokemon moves to make random things happen, but also has practical applications for the wide variety of uses normal type moves have.

a third place would be Flying type so I can learn fly.

all the other types have moves with little use other than attacking things, and thus aren't really worth considering.

----------


## Fable Wright

> What type do you pick and why? I'm curious to know.


Normal. I get access to Wish, and Heal Bell. Even if that Wish isn't, you know, reality bending, and it can only heal hit points? Think of how many lives you could save. You could magic people covered in third degree burns back to full health in just a little bit of time. Also, Accupressure and Baton Pass, to be or help someone be superhuman. Protect, if I'm in a crisis. Happy Hour. Pay Day. Recycle to help recover bricked tech. Secret Power to make Secret Bases.

There is no reason to not ever take Normal for sheer quality of life improvements.




> For example, you can Thunderbolt a rock or a concrete wall or a pile of dirt all you want but it won't do anything becuase in Pokemon Logic ground and rock are immune to electricity even though in real life a bolt of lightning would blast a rock apart.


Rock is not immune to electricity; see also, fossil pokemon. You can use electric moves on e.g. Armaldo or Amaura just fine. It's only ground that's immune.

----------


## Rater202

Huh... So apprently there were no pure-rock type pokemon in the entirety of Gen 1 and I never saw past the misleading "electric pokemon will be useless in the rick gym" stuff from gen one.

Gen One kind of sucked with type balance. And type representation.

"Ghost-types are strong against psychics... except there's only one family of ghost types and they're also poison so you're taking double damage from the psychic types and you can't even get the strongest form of that species unless you've got a friend whose willing to trade." To add insult to injury, it was only relatively recently that Ghastly and its evolutions could learn poison type moves naturally so its poison type served only to its detriment

...No, seriously, the haunted ball of toxic corpse-fumes that's deadly enough to kill an elephant _couldn't naturally poison things_.

"Fire beats ice... except there are only two primarily Ice type pokemon, one of which is also psychic and the other is a legendary. The rest are all water types so have fun with the elite 4"

Anyway, to answer my own question, It's a tie between Grass because I think plant control is cool and no matter how old I get there's always going to be that irrational part of my brain that's paranoid about vampires so solar beam would be nice or Ghost because I like the idea of being a spooky magic person.

Psychic and Fairy are tied for second for the same reason as Ghost.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> "Ghost-types are strong against psychics... except there's only one family of ghost types and they're also poison so you're taking double damage from the psychic types and you can't even get the strongest form of that species unless you've got a friend whose willing to trade." To add insult to injury, it was only relatively recently that Ghastly and its evolutions could learn poison type moves naturally so its poison type served only to its detriment
> 
> ...No, seriously, the haunted ball of toxic corpse-fumes that's deadly enough to kill an elephant _couldn't naturally poison things_.


To salt the wound, there were exactly three Ghost-type attacks in the first generation: Confuse Ray (does no damage), Lick (base 20 power), and Night Shade (deals exactly the user's level in HP, ignoring weakness and resistance).

And to just nuke the whole thing from orbit, Ghost-types _weren't_ actually strong against Psychics in that generation, for whatever reason Psychic types were immune to Ghost-type damage (setting aside Night Shade).

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> A genie appears before you...


My first thought is to go for Ground type, because I really like the Ground type and general earth powers are definitely a power fantasy I can enjoy. But that's rubbish because it barely gives you anything good. The few moves that lots of ground type gets that are actually good for something other than damaging things are often Rock type moves too, like Rock Polish. Although Dig would be kinda cool sometimes. Normal is probably the best answer, realistically speaking. Healing magic is usually the best choice from any magic system in this kind of thought exercise, and Normal does that and a lot more. One alternative that could be considered though is Water. Surf, Waterfall, Dive, Whirlpool, it would be cool is what I'm saying. And with the rules established there being so many different ones is if anything a bonus in this case. There is even some healing magic through stuff like Life Dew and Aqua Ring. If you just want to be a superhero Flying is worth considering as well. Fly and Roost, what else do you need?

----------


## Rater202

> To salt the wound, there were exactly three Ghost-type attacks in the first generation: Confuse Ray (does no damage), Lick (base 20 power), and Night Shade (deals exactly the user's level in HP, ignoring weakness and resistance).
> 
> And to just nuke the whole thing from orbit, Ghost-types _weren't_ actually strong against Psychics in that generation, for whatever reason Psychic types were immune to Ghost-type damage (setting aside Night Shade).


My understanding is that it was a glitch caused by faulty coding. It was fixed for gen 2 but they just didn't bother for anything released after the original ed and green for the rest of gen 1.

What really pisses me off is that the Ghastly Line is one of my favorites.

Squirtle, Ghastly, Eevee. Those are my favorites... Though Salandit is working its way up there, too.

Edit: Actually, new but similar question: You are combined with a Pokemon. It can be a detective Pikachu or Mystery Dungeon sitch, an anthro sitch, a switch between human and mon, or anything in between.

If you practice its powers, you'll eventually learn every move it can learn, evolve into its full line, lean every move its other forms can learn, and so on. You're not limited to four moves, and like before this includes egg moves, tutor moves, TM, HM, TR, and event moves. You do not need special items or circumstances to evolve--you combine with an Evvee and want to be a jolteon, you become a jolteon. You are not locked out of moves on evolving, if you don't know it yet and your current form can't learn it, you still can.

You can mega evolve and use Z-moves, but you can't Dynamax.

In games terms, you have Maxed IVs, maxed EVs, and a costume nature of "Me" that boosts everything.

Which Pokemon do you pick?

My answer is... One of the four I mentioned already.

----------


## Emmerlaus

I agree with Fable Wright, Normal type moves all the way!  :Small Smile:

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

My first instinct would be to go with Psychic, because Teleport alone would be pretty awesome, and its got some healing moves in it too. But on reflection Normal does have a good bit more utility, and being able to shapeshift might make up for being able to skip driving to the store.

----------


## Mark Hall

Ok, Pokemon Go question again:

What determines a "Great" or "Nice" or "Excellent" throw? They seem to happen at random for me.

----------


## Qwertystop

Normal offers a lot of broadly-useful physical athleticism that would be nice to have (Strength, Rock Climb, Extremespeed, Endure), some other generally-useful things (Cut, Protect), and some stuff that's actually pretty weird? (Camouflage, Disable, Flash, Hidden Power, Razor Wind, various moves assuming the presence of a tail or horn or other non-human appendage). Oh, and it's got most of the sound-based moves, and the good healing ones (Wish, Rest, Recover, Refresh). And Recycle. Pretty sure that'd be my pick.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Ok, Pokemon Go question again:
> 
> What determines a "Great" or "Nice" or "Excellent" throw? They seem to happen at random for me.


Youve seen the green/orange/red circle that changes size? You have to get the ball to hit the Pokémon inside that circle to get the Nice/Great/Excellent throws. Which you get is determined by the size of the circle when you hit it; Great is when the circle is about half its maximum size, Excellent is half of that and Nice is anything bigger than Great.

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## Mark Hall

> Youve seen the green/orange/red circle that changes size? You have to get the ball to hit the Pokémon inside that circle to get the Nice/Great/Excellent throws. Which you get is determined by the size of the circle when you hit it; Great is when the circle is about half its maximum size, Excellent is half of that and Nice is anything bigger than Great.


Ah ha! Thank you very much. My aim SUCKS!

----------


## Rater202

Has anyone else ever spent time coming up with a "fan region?"

In mine, everything looks nice and clean with windmills and solar panels everywhere with a note that the region used to be badly polluted but they went to great lengths to clean up over the last few decades...

But the region is full of pokemon that have adapted to living in a polluted environment: All of the starter pokemon have or gain a secondary type that resists poison. Ghost, rock, ground, and steel are the most common wild types, but usually as secondary types and there are a lot of regional variants that are either poison type or a type that resists poison.

And when you go into the caves, they're just full of pollution pokemonkoffing, grimer, trubbish, and their evolved forms. Nobody really comments on it, except for a couple of people who think it's a bit odd that they're finding those in the wild instead of around cities.

Very rarely you might find an Alolaon Grimer or Muk or a Galarian Weezing in the wild mixed in with the regular ones.

Among new pokemon would be a Ghost/Poison that appears to be a biohazard disposal bag come to life. Nothing graphic is shown but the Pokedex entries imply that it's a bag of cancerous or diseased limbs and organs that had to be removed brought to life by the lingering anger or regret of patients who did not survive emergency medical procedures.

I'm also imagining at least one original regional variant of grimer, koffing, and rubbish. I'm imagining a trubbish/garbador variant that's part water-type due to augmenting its diet with goop and polluted watersbasically an inversion of the Alolan Muk, as well as a koffin that scuttles around on little bug legs becuase it's started eating solid garbage instead of the fumes it lets off and now it's too big to float.

On a regional muk, I kind of like the idea of a smoke-belching grimer that evolves into a fire-type muk variant that's just a pile of flaming tar but I also like the idea of a Poison/Steel type that's saturated with lead and mercury and other toxic metals.

Towards the climax of the game, you discover that while all the trash and pollution has been cleaned up, it hasn't been contained very wellthey mostly just pumped it underground and periodically throw trash down into a massive semi-sealed hole in the ground. Unfortunately, and unbeknownst to the regional government, the area was filled with a deposit of various evolution stonesthe radiation of which causes the toxic gasses and rotting garbage and industrial sludge and other pollutants to come to life as their respective Garbage pokemon which are constantly feeding on other bits of the pile of pollutants and occasionally each other and periodically escaping into the caves and tunnels of the region via cracks in the stone wall of the hole in the ground they were buried in.

Eventually, the whole heap would dissolve and amalgamate into a Legendary that's just the purest conceptual essence of pollution come to life that needs to be captured because if permitted to wander unchecked it could cause permanent damage to the entire planet. I have the mental image of a giant Alolan Muk with a crown of Galarian Weezings circling it's head and it's tongue is made of trash and has a garbador's face on the tip.

----------


## Lord Raziere

I think my pokemon region would end up predictably darker and subversive and thus most pokemon fans wouldn't want to know about it, whatever it would be. its just the directions my brain goes. I don't know the specifics but given what I've done in the past, thats probably where I'd go but at the same time try to figure out truly interesting places that could pop up in the pokemon universe while putting thought into how all this works. 

like how do armies work in pokemon world? are soldiers given pokemon with specialized roles? do navies command water pokemon to fight on the sea? the air?  are pokemon wars simply vast armies of pokemon organized in formation while human commanders relay orders through the radio?

which pokemon are selected for what role or job? does it vary region by region? so many questions....

----------


## Rater202

> like how do armies work in pokemon world? are soldiers given pokemon with specialized roles? do navies command water pokemon to fight on the sea? the air?  are pokemon wars simply vast armies of pokemon organized in formation while human commanders relay orders through the radio?


Lt. Surge was a Lieutenant in a military(originally he was American but that retconned to be ambiguous) and fought in at least one war.

Electric Pokemon saved his life during the war.

So at bare minimum, we know that there are military ranks and that pokemon are present on the battlefield.

If we ever do the Pokemon Cyberpunk thing, that might be a thing to exploresapient pokemon, cyborgs retro engineered from Steel Types and various "animated object pokemon," with a symbiotic rotom providing the power sources and helping integrate everything Human/Pokemon Hybrids might be pursued for military reasonsa squadron of superhuman soldiers would be easier to train than a squad of squishy humans teaching tactics to animals that range in intelligence from "animal" to "about as smart as human, but there's a communication barrier."

An unscrupulous Government would pay a fortune for that, and if the region is controlled by a corrupt megacorp then obviously the Government is gonna be looking the other way in the interest of reaping the rewards.

----------


## Lord Raziere

see the main problem is that I have to figure out what normal pokemon warfare is like first.

because lets say I want to make a normal ground-pounding soldier in pokemon world:
1-are they issued a gun? do guns work on pokemon? is this game dark enough that I want to give them guns and be effective on pokemon? 

2- if they are issued pokemon, what pokemon are they? does it vary region by region? do they attempt to make the standard team of a soldier well-rounded so that they can fight in as many environments as they can? do they make specialists for certain environments? like I assume they have to be flexible because they'd travel to many environments and face many pokemon and people and be probably be given something like the elemental monkeys, a flying type, a normal type and a fighting type because those are relatively common and make for a well-rounded team. you wouldn't be defeating any pokemon leagues with it, but it'd serviceable, but you'd have like air and naval specialist trainers because they'd need to tailor their teams to the environments they fight in. 

3-how many roles would the military reasonably use pokemon for? probably a lot, but what point does a human come in to do something? do, five naval trainers just show up with like, 30 gyarados to wreck your naval base by blasting hyper beam everywhere? do humans come in with guns shooting at people while their pokemon back them up? when do you stop using a phone and start using psychics to send telepathic messages? do they still use rapidash to ride into battle so they can flamethrower people? after all its not as if you'd invent flamethrowers when you already have creatures to do that for you. are voltorb and electrode launched at people so they can explode near the enemy repeatedly? do people recruit and send grimer at each other to screw up their lands and resources? WHAT IS WARFARE IN THIS UNIVERSE!? the complex multifaceted paradigm that this runs on is confusing, chaotic and full of so many variables that its hard to figure out how it would play out in any predictable manner, because pokemon could potentially do so many things to change how wars are fought. I'd have to figure out a way of organizing or simplifying it all before I start throwing cyborgs additions on top of that.

----------


## DataNinja

> Has anyone else ever spent time coming up with a "fan region?"


Yep. Quite a few, really. A good chunk of anyone who's GM'd for a Pokémon Tabletop game'll have decided to have fun with a region of their own invention when they don't feel like bandying around canon ones.

The big one for me was one based off of Canada, with 'temples' scattered around that each had Plates in them. As each was retrieved by the PCs in turn, it warped the world more to confine to that element. So you started to see oceans of lightning, or trees of fire, or rains of seeds or whatever. It was really fun coming up with the Elemental Chaos-esque effects.

----------


## Rater202

I'm not sure about the games(other than various techniques being named after bullets and bombs) but in the anime Team Rocket is on multiple occasions in the early seasons using firearms of various types.

Most notably, _Mystery at the Lighthouse_ where they shoot a crapload of missiles at the one-of-a-kind giant Dragonite that Bill's been trying to befriend with the expectation that the missile barrage would weaken it enough that they could catch it.

So... Yeah, it'd be safe to assume that military-grade guns and other firearms exist and are effective on at least some pokemon. Probably not legendaries or super huge ones, but...

I imagine it'd be a thing like every squad has a couple of machops or machokes for heavy lifting and I wouldn't be surprised if military vehicles didn't have the means to be powered by an electric pokemon(or in recent years are just possessed by Rotoms. Imagine tanks, APCs, and Choppers that fly and operate themselves.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Pokemon Warfare wasn't a case of a normal squad but everyone's equipped with a Pokemon or two based on their roleinstead of a siege unit having a flamethrower, they've got a fire type that knows flamethrower. but based on Lt. Surge's example I'm assuming that, unlike a pokemon battle, the trainers are fighting alongside their pokemon.

The question is more are people bringing their own pokemon when they enlist, or are they leaving their pokemon at home in the hands of trusted careers and using pokemon owned by the military.

We can also infer from the fact that Sailors are all wearing naval uniforms that a traditional Navy exists... Honestly, it might just be a normal Navy but people also have water-type pokemon on their person. I could see every Naval ship having a Surf HM onboard and encouraging/requiring everyone to put it on at least one Pokemon in case the ship goes down. Dive might be used where we in real life would use submarines, since using Dive seems to be able to provide air to the trainer indefinitely, but I'm not seeing that being practical for anything but short term exploration purposes.

Military Intelligence probably includes heavy use of psychics and mediums who, naturally use psychic and ghost types who are probably also using their powers to help gather intelligence. Espionage and saboteur units probably make use of ghost and dark types. And Rotoms and the Porygon line for computing.

I imagine that the use of Poison Types in warfare might violate bans on chemical or biological warfare if they can fatally poison people.

There's probably international bans and/or agreements on capturing and using Legenaries as military assets comparable to bans against the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Can you imagine Groudon marching through a region bringing harsh sunlight down to cause drought and triggering earthquakes and volcanic eruptions? I don't think anyone wants that at all, let alone for purposes of military conquest.

I'm gonna assume that Wars in the Pokemon World are short but brutal.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Has anyone else ever spent time coming up with a "fan region?"


I have some half baked ideas for a fan game I'm never going to make with properties from both the mainline and the Pokémon Ranger games.

You get one partner, free pick from all mon in the regional browser/dex (and some sort of random options for people who want to go in unspoiled), everything else you catch does not gain experience and runs off into the hills when if runs out of HP (which might refill before every battle just because I don't like running back for healing all the time). Pokémon appear in the overworld, because that way you can actually try to catch the mon you need for this next obstacle, and also because it makes for a much nicer Pokémon world. Every pokémon always knows one field move, including your starter (although I guess through evolution your partner could get several of them or you could ditch them all, which is fine). It would be a small game in scope, a story that does not revolve around the end of the world, probably no legendaries or pseudo-legends, possibly quite a small number of total pokémon, but with good reasons to actually catch them all. There might be a bit of a pseudo-historical angle to it, kind of a frontier vibe. The map might end up loosely based on the Benelux countries (Belgium Netherlands Luxembourg), just to continue that tradition. Maybe put in some references to Kalos and Galar. Get a bit of a feel for where you are in the Pokémon world, in the same way that Almia (from Ranger 2, best region ever by the way) was close to Fiore (from Ranger 1) and Sinnoh.

Aside from my lazyness (in itself more than enough to make me never do this) the biggest obstacle might be that it seems a lot more difficult to try and make something using the superior looking Ranger style overworld. Bundles like Pokémon Essentials for RPG Maker XP have a lot of ripped and fan made content and scripts for imitating gen 3-5 main series games, you can pretty much start building your world right away. Wanting to do something else probably means having to do a lot of actual game making.




On the Pokémon war thing: I think it's actually kind of cool how they have avoided answering so many questions for 20 years and it doesn't bother me at all until I start trying to come up with answers. Do people eat Pokémon? Are there non-Pokémon animals in this world? There are some obviously very weak Pokémon in this world that are still based on predatory animals and get Pokédex entries that suggest they hunt, like Spinarak, what are those things preying on? Speaking of the Pokédex, it seems like before the TV series came out it was intended to be a thing the player character wrote, that's why the descriptions are so ridiculous. Are we ever going to find out who comes up with this crap? Healthcare is completely free for Pokémon, what is it like for humans? Champions who have spend years honing their craft can be dethroned by a kid who spent a few weeks on the road, what's up with that? Does everyone have like a hidden level cap they can't get their Pokémon to get past, with the player character just being so unnaturally talented that he can go up to 100? There are sooooo many questions the games never want to make me ask. It's actually kind of cool. War might be the least of my problems. I mean, a ten year old with a mouse is usually enough to get rid of any world dooming trouble anyway...

Edit: Okay, maybe that sounds a bit harsh. It's a fun topic, I just don't have that much to add on it. I think there have been one to a few big fan projects on it though.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wonder there's any good Pokemon fan-fiction out there?  :Confused:

----------


## Rater202

> In the distant past, it was somewhat stronger than the horribly weak descendants that exist today.



That would be an interesting Fossil Pokemon to encounter at some point. A distant ancestor of the Magikarp evolutionary line.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> That would be an interesting Fossil Pokemon to encounter at some point. A distant ancestor of the Magikarp evolutionary line.


If they did something cool with it.

Maybe give both stages the same stat total, in the high 400's, but the "Gyarados" is more rounded while the "Magikarp" is more specialized. Maybe it has huge speed and defense to mimic its present day distribution, with a bunch of HP and moves that prevent harm to it, like attract and charm and something that paralyses and maybe something that lets it run away from a fight? Either that or it's just a physical beast that kills everything with no subtlety whatsoever but doesn't learn any water type moves or something.

Maybe even make the "Gyarados" weaker than the "Magikarp", a bit reminiscent of Dragonair maybe, but with more different moves and the ability to breed. So if you want to breed "Magikarp"s you need a "Gyarados", and there are certain "Magikarp" egg moves that can only be obtained through a "Gyarados" who learns them through level up or TM.

And maybe make stage one rock-water and stage two rock-dragon. Just to throw some extra firewood on the eternal discussions around Gyarados' typing.

----------


## Rater202

If I were doing it, I'd give it an elongated, semi-flexible body: Make it the middle ground between a fish and a sea serpent, if you will, but obviously closer to Magikarp than Gyarados. A middle point, if you will, between it's modern descendan'ts too forms.

And it doesn't evolve

Present the weak, worthless modern Magikarp and the process of metamoprhosing into th more powerful Magikarp as an evolutionary advantage that was selected for.

I mean, something as big an powerful as Gyarados would logically need a lot of resources.

And Magikarp despite being the most useless Pokemon in a fight... Is probably, from an evolutionary perspective, the most successful.

Think about it: Magikarp can be found in the wild in every known region except for Orre.(you know, the one place in the world that has *no* native Pokemon?)

In every region where Magikarp can be fished or encountered wild, they are found in every or almost every body of water. Rivers, lakes, ponds, bays, seas, oceans, freshwater, saltwater, and multiple Pokedex entries note that Magikarp are able to survive in _any_ body of water even if it's too polluted for most pokemon to survive.

Magikarp are noted to reproduce in ridiculous numbers, and despite being weak and feeble in some places you can encounter Magikarp of every level implying that Magikarp are, in fact, getting battle experience somehow.

It's noted that Magikarp sometimes gets stranded on land and die becoming an important part of the food chains of a wild variety of organisms... But it's also implied that Magikarp can survive out of water for years and even climb mountains by repeatedly using splash over the course of years... And "Splash" has nothing to do with water, it's name is a translation thing.

And, also, in the anime at least it's noted that Magikarp are not good eatingthey're mostly scale and bone and the scales are hard.. This is supported by the fact that the Pokedex repeatedly notes that they have underdeveloped musculature. I imagine the animals that prey on stranded Magikarp are either scavengers picking the decaying corpse or something with an iron stomach.

Between the pollution thing and the spending years climbing a mountain thing, that would imply that they require very little food(or alternatively can eat almost anything.)

I legitimately think that Magikarp's so-called "worthless" form is an evolutionarily selected form that's designed from the ground up to ensure that at least _some_ of the species survives to full maturity and metamorphoses into it's ultra-powerful apex predator form. I think that happened because it's more efficient to do it that way than to try and be born as an apex predator and survive that long.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wish that all Pokemon can talk or at least have the same intelligence as humans can.  :Frown:

----------


## Mark Hall

"Make 3 Nice Curveball throws in a row"

Look, I'm lucky to make 3 throws in a row, and have no idea how curveballs happen.

----------


## Rater202

> I wish that all Pokemon can talk or at least have the same intelligence as humans can.


Depending on continuity, they do have human like intelligence.Observation on Dragon Type.

In the original Japanese, rather than written with the Japanese Character's for dragon, Dragon Type is "doragon" spelled out in kana.

Most types uses the Japanese or a loan word with a specific meaning in Japanesewater type is "mizutaipu." fire is Honōtaipu, and so on. Psychic is Esupataipo, "esper type" which is using the loan term ESP as a root word, but the only types in gen 1 that just flat out use the english name in the original japanese are normal, dragon, and ghost.

There would not be another type to follow this conversion until Fairy.

so, ignoring Normal becuase it's normal: Ghost Type in gen one seems to be based on Western Ghost stories with just a little bit of Japanese Ghost Lore to give it flavor. Gengar is named after a german "doppleganger" in both generations, and in Japanese Gastly an d Haunter are literally named Ghos and Ghost so Ghost type refering exclusively to this one familial line in gen one and 2 using the english could have been a pun.

Fairy is pretty clea cut based on western pop culture fairies and western lore or fairies, goblins, and the like.

Now let's look at Dragon Type:

Dragon-type Pokemon, due to the majority of them being legendary, pseudo-legendary, Third Form evolutions, or Mega Evolutions, have the highest stat totals of any type, on average.

Dragon-Type moves all talk about power and rage and destruction. Drago types are fered to as difficult to control but very powerful.

There is not a single Pure Dragon-Type pokemon that resembles an Eastern Dragon Most of them resemble serpents, lindworms, wyrms, or wyverns: Different kinds of western dragons. The ones that don't resemble dinosaurs. The exception is the Goomy evolutionary family, who are based on the Tarasque(a shelled dragon) or Lou Carcolh, a snail-like dragon, both from French folklore.

Of duel types, Rayquaza comes closest to an Eastern DRagon, but more closlty resembles a flying Lindworm.

The rest, if they resemble a dragon, resemble a western dragon or sometimes a dinosaur.

So, what Pokemon do resemble Eastern Dragons?

I am 100% certain that "Dragon Type" is meant to refer to "Western Dragons" and tha'ts why Gyarados isn't Dragon TypeGyarados resembles an _Eastern_ Dragon and is based on a legend about how Eastern Dragons are born.

It gets Dragon tYpe moves, but as a Water Flying type it fits pretty well into Eastern depictions of dragons as spirits of water and wind.

I think Gyarados is meant to represent dragons as an embodiment of nature.

More controversially: I think that Dragons as sources of mystical power and wisdom are represented by the ABra Line. come on, they look like anthropomorphic eastern dragons.

----------


## danzibr

> "Make 3 Nice Curveball throws in a row"
> 
> Look, I'm lucky to make 3 throws in a row, and have no idea how curveballs happen.


I can help with that!

If you use the phone left-handed, draw a 6 with your thumb (but starting at the inside, release at the end).  If you're right-handed... a 6 but mirrored left to right.

As for the 3 in a row... when you get 1, celebrate.  Then when you encounter another 'Mon, disconnect your device from the interwebs.  If you fail, force quit the app, reconnect to the internet, open PoGo.  You won't lose your streak.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> "Make 3 Nice Curveball throws in a row"
> 
> Look, I'm lucky to make 3 throws in a row, and have no idea how curveballs happen.


This is kind of hard to explain without being able to show you, but here goes:

(Note that this is assuming the Pokémon is in the middle of the screen.) 

Drag the Pokéball off to a lower corner of your phone. While holding down on the ball, rub your finger in a tight circle until sparks start coming off. Then throw it at the Pokémons feet or shadow. For a Nice curveball you need to hit inside the colored circle as usual.

Curveballs give a bit of a catch boost and a tiny bit of extra XP when you use them to catch a Pokémon. They take practice, but once youve got them down there is zero reason not to use them all the time.

----------


## Rater202

That feeling when you're watching a let's play of a Nuzlock and realize that every single death has been becuase the players doing something stupid or just nor paying attention.

Like leaving a Slowbro in against the rival's haunter. One crit later and the plans for the Elite 4 are just fricking shot.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> So, what Pokemon do resemble Eastern Dragons?


Drampa.

(Not to put too fine a point on it, Drampa's still more of an exceptional case that happened long after Dragon Types were created, so it doesn't defeat the point, just that he deserves a mention in the topic.  To an extent, Eternatus and Dragalge, too, but Dragalge's probably more coincidental.)

----------


## Rater202

> Drampa.
> 
> (Not to put too fine a point on it, Drampa's still more of an exceptional case that happened long after Dragon Types were created, so it doesn't defeat the point, just that he deserves a mention in the topic.  To an extent, Eternatus and Dragalge, too, but Dragalge's probably more coincidental.)


I missed Drampa when checking, but Dragalge's is clearly based ona sea dragon so it's dragon typing is more of a "pun" than anything else, and Eternatus is more of a winged serpent than a Chinese dragon.

And honestly, Drampa's weird enough to be an outlier. For one, it's a Normal Type with dragon as secondary so...

Drampa breaks my brain.

Like, aren't normal types supposed to be mundane animals?

----------


## Qwertystop

> I missed Drampa when checking, but Dragalge's is clearly based ona sea dragon so it's dragon typing is more of a "pun" than anything else, and Eternatus is more of a winged serpent than a Chinese dragon.
> 
> And honestly, Drampa's weird enough to be an outlier. For one, it's a Normal Type with dragon as secondary so...
> 
> Drampa breaks my brain.
> 
> Like, aren't normal types supposed to be mundane animals?


Normal type tends to be brute physicality, without the weird effects of other types or the skill of Fighting. Except for when it's sound, a lot of sound-based moves are Normal. Drampa is a dragon who mostly just Is Big. I think it works.

----------


## Fable Wright

> Drampa breaks my brain.
> 
> Like, aren't normal types supposed to be mundane animals?


How would you type Puff the Magic Dragon? Goofy, good with small kids, not naturally intimidating, despite the fact that they're a ginormous dragon, and might either be an allegory for childhood _or_ drugs?

Because whenever I look at Drampa, I see a magic dragon that lives in Hona Lee (which sounds linguistically related to Honolulu), that _may_ be a reference to drugs (Sap Sipper and Cloud Nine), that's mentioned to be friends with children (see Pokedex entry).

They're not a fairy, but they're big and goofy and good with kids first and may be an allegorical representation of childhood wonder, which fits Normal-predominant typing, and a dragon second.

----------


## Rater202

If you had to design a new Eevee Evolution, what would you do?

I like the idea of a steel type "Aegeon" from "aegis",  who evolves from an Eevee with high friendship leveling up while holding a metal coat...

...But it's just a bigger Evee, with a body proportionate to the other evolved forms, wearing a suit of plate mail armor.

----------


## Saambell

> If you had to design a new Eevee Evolution, what would you do?


If I was to design a Dragon type Eeveelution I would make it purple, with yellow horns and underbelly, and golden wings. Make its pokedex entry talk about how its preferred prey is Wooloo or Mareep.

----------


## danzibr

> This is kind of hard to explain without being able to show you, but here goes:
> 
> (Note that this is assuming the Pokémon is in the middle of the screen.) 
> 
> Drag the Pokéball off to a lower corner of your phone. While holding down on the ball, rub your finger in a tight circle until sparks start coming off. Then throw it at the Pokémons feet or shadow. For a Nice curveball you need to hit inside the colored circle as usual.
> 
> *Curveballs give a bit of a catch boost* and a tiny bit of extra XP when you use them to catch a Pokémon. They take practice, but once youve got them down there is zero reason not to use them all the time.


To expand on this, a curve pokeball has a higher catch rate than a non-curve greatball (and a curve greatball has a higher catch rate than a non-curve ultraball)

----------


## Rater202

What's the Nidoran family supposed to be?

The base forms look like lagomorphsrabbits and haresbut they're spiky in a way that doesn't seem to be mammalian spines and they're venomous(well, poisonous per the dex entries, but it acts more like venom.)\

The evolved forms, meanwhile, look reptilian: Nidorina more so than Nidorino, but obviously so by the final forms.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> What's the Nidoran family supposed to be?
> 
> The base forms look like lagomorphsrabbits and haresbut they're spiky in a way that doesn't seem to be mammalian spines and they're venomous(well, poisonous per the dex entries, but it acts more like venom.)\
> 
> The evolved forms, meanwhile, look reptilian: Nidorina more so than Nidorino, but obviously so by the final forms.


According to bulbapedia:



> *Origin*
> Nidoran♀ appears to draw inspiration from hamsters, rabbits (perhaps an Amami rabbit, specifically), mice, or porcupines, with aspects of venomous mammals. Anatomically, however, they are arguably most like hyraxes  small, rodent-like mammals that are genetically more closely related to much larger mammals like elephants and manatees featuring thickset bodies with tough hides (similar to Nidorina and Nidoqueen).


so close. but its probably not any one thing. some pokemon are just mishmashes or blends of various animals into something a lot like this or that but isn't really any of them, rather than being a 1:1 inspiration.

----------


## Rater202

So, in the pokemon Games, there are just...

People who know Pokemon Moves.

The Move Tutors, they... Seem to know the moves.

Like, the guys who teach Mega Punch and Mega Kick in Gen 1 are martial artists specialized in Punching and Kicking. The Dream Eater tutor is a guy who knows how to eat dreams after dreaming about his dream being eaten.

Not a tutor, but the manager at the Kanto Power Plant in Gen 2 claims to be so mad he can blast things... And Acts like he himself is the one who can use Charge Beam.

Was that ever explained? I don't think you see that talked about very much.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So, in the pokemon Games, there are just...
> 
> People who know Pokemon Moves.
> 
> The Move Tutors, they... Seem to know the moves.
> 
> Like, the guys who teach Mega Punch and Mega Kick in Gen 1 are martial artists specialized in Punching and Kicking. The Dream Eater tutor is a guy who knows how to eat dreams after dreaming about his dream being eaten.
> 
> Not a tutor, but the manager at the Kanto Power Plant in Gen 2 claims to be so mad he can blast things... And Acts like he himself is the one who can use Charge Beam.
> ...


Not really. Pokemon? Explain things? Not exactly two things that go together. This is a franchise that is trying to sell you on the idea that despite magical creatures existing alongside humanity since the dawn of time, the only encyclopedia we have on them is a digital one written by ten-year olds with questionable information on them. The pokedex might as well be this universes wikipedia. 

these random people you meet, claiming to know these moves? well the mega hit guys is more explainable as humans as shown in the anime are able to train themselves to fight with their fighting type pokemon, often fighting type gym leaders who spar with their own machoke, Lucario and what have you. So two guys being able to do those pokemon mvoes? more plausible since they have hands and feet, they can get strong. thats the logic that most normal moves run on and Pokemon moves have a sort of "infinity energy anyone can harness with the right access" thing going so...Why not?

electric types attacks on the other hand? bit less explainable. that guy might actually just be crazy that works in a specific instance, which is teaching your pokemon a thing. in the anime there is sabrina who can use psychic energy, but thats explicitly because she was born that way, most people can't do that or at least aren't born with the massive amount of psychic power she has, but there is no real electric equivalent as far as we know. so unless the guy is some super-rare guy born with the ability to somehow tap into the electric energy of the universe, he is probably just a highly functional crazy, which isn't implausible for pokemon-verse, as pokemon is full of crazy people who do things like stand around in dark caves or swim around in the open ocean with no visible means of sustaining themselves waiting for people to walk/swim by to challenge them to duels. how are they alive? we don't know, but they're somehow alive so whatever form of insanity they have doesn't impact their ability to somehow get food and water to make sure they keep standing/floating there.

----------


## Rater202

If you were in charge of designing new Rotom Formes, what would you do?

I like the idea of a Jackhammer for ground type and an industrial saw for steel type.

Or maybe a seismograph for ground and the jackhammer can be rock?

----------


## Fable Wright

> how are they alive? we don't know, but they're somehow alive so whatever form of insanity they have doesn't impact their ability to somehow get food and water to make sure they keep standing/floating there.


Headcanon: Every human in the pokemon universe knows Recycle and Recover, and carries a Leppa Berry and Berry Juice (or other food item). This explains why no one needs to get fed, go to a pokemon center, or really do much at all: They're a post-scarcity society because _everyone_ is taught two Normal moves.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Headcanon: Every human in the pokemon universe knows Recycle and Recover, and carries a Leppa Berry and Berry Juice (or other food item). This explains why no one needs to get fed, go to a pokemon center, or really do much at all: They're a post-scarcity society because _everyone_ is taught two Normal moves.


....I'd say this is ridiculous because there is no visible way for humans to do this, but there isn't really an explanation for how pokemon do Recycle or Recover either so......fair I guess?

----------


## Rater202

...Idea for Pokemon Cyberpunk thing: After studying how some humans are able to use psychic powers, aura, or whatever it is that makes fighting type moves work, Megacorp develops means to teach all humans certain normal type moves specifically for the sake of drastically improved quality of life via recycling, recover, and so on.

Of course, the big money boom came in the first generation as their region and nearby ones used it en mass, with minor booms as the technology was imported to other regions, but several generations later the stead income from that isn't enough to keep the company afloat anymore requiring people to kick other research into hyperdrive even as the megacorp supplants the League, the Government, and all other business in the Region.

...Even the Pokeballs all have different designs from the sylph co produced pokeballs and the custom made ones that the one guy in Jhoto gives you.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> ...Idea for Pokemon Cyberpunk thing: After studying how some humans are able to use psychic powers, aura, or whatever it is that makes fighting type moves work, Megacorp develops means to teach all humans certain normal type moves specifically for the sake of drastically improved quality of life via recycling, recover, and so on.
> 
> Of course, the big money boom came in the first generation as their region and nearby ones used it en mass, with minor booms as the technology was imported to other regions, but several generations later the stead income from that isn't enough to keep the company afloat anymore requiring people to kick other research into hyperdrive even as the megacorp supplants the League, the Government, and all other business in the Region.
> 
> ...Even the Pokeballs all have different designs from the sylph co produced pokeballs and the custom made ones that the one guy in Johto gives you.


I have a concept of "former team rocket grunt, now rattata/female nidoran hybrid" for that. if those aren't starter enough (they're pretty weak and beginner level mons) I can always do litten instead.

----------


## Rater202

> I have a concept of "former team rocket grunt, now rattata/female nidoran hybrid" for that. if those aren't starter enough (they're pretty weak and beginner level mons) I can always do litten instead.


No, that's fine.

I still think we need more stuff before we can do this... At least one more dedicated player

Off the top of my head, we need to name the region.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Depending on continuity, they do have human like intelligence.Observation on Dragon Type.
> 
> In the original Japanese, rather than written with the Japanese Character's for dragon, Dragon Type is "doragon" spelled out in kana.
> 
> Most types uses the Japanese or a loan word with a specific meaning in Japanesewater type is "mizutaipu." fire is Honōtaipu, and so on. Psychic is Esupataipo, "esper type" which is using the loan term ESP as a root word, but the only types in gen 1 that just flat out use the english name in the original japanese are normal, dragon, and ghost.
> 
> There would not be another type to follow this conversion until Fairy.
> 
> so, ignoring Normal becuase it's normal: Ghost Type in gen one seems to be based on Western Ghost stories with just a little bit of Japanese Ghost Lore to give it flavor. Gengar is named after a german "doppleganger" in both generations, and in Japanese Gastly an d Haunter are literally named Ghos and Ghost so Ghost type refering exclusively to this one familial line in gen one and 2 using the english could have been a pun.
> ...


I never seen a Dragon Type Pokemon spoke like a human before. I do know that a few Pokemon talk such as Meowth and Mewtwo actually talk. (I only watched Pokemon the Anime Series Season 1).

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I always figured the Nidoran's are "just" rabbits who evolve into speedy rhinos who evolve into rhino inspired retrosaurs, tied together by design elements like spikes and their colors. They look natural enough, as evolution lines...

But the hyrax-large mammal connection seems plausible as well...

Move tutors are a bit of an "insufficient information" thing. They could just have a Pokémon that knows the move to help them teach. That's probably the easiest explanation. Maybe they know exactly how a Pokémon can make the move work without being able to use it themselves. (I think that's how Ash's Buizel learns Ice Punch in the anime?) Maybe they're hackers or something who use a TM/storage system kind of setup. Some of them collect shards said to be remnants of ancient technology, maybe that technology can teach moves...

----------


## Bartmanhomer

They need to bring back the Mega Pokemon.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

They need to bring back posts that are more than a one sentence blurb on a new topic.

What?

(In other words: please state why you are of this opinion.)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> They need to bring back posts that are more than a one sentence blurb on a new topic.
> 
> What?


I'm just saying that Mega Pokemon are better than the Dynamax and the Gigantmax version. I just not feeling the Giant Version of Pokemon. Mega Pokemon is a more powerful and much better option.

----------


## DataNinja

> Maybe they know exactly how a Pokémon can make the move work without being able to use it themselves. (I think that's how Ash's Buizel learns Ice Punch in the anime?)


Yeah, that happens quite a bit in the anime. I seem to remember particularly one Gym Leader, I think, teaching James' Cagnea to use Needle Arm by giving its arm a bit of a twist and stuff - so you saw the process.

----------


## Rater202

I'm not the only one who wonders that, if slowpoke evolves because a shellder bit its tail or its head while it was holding a kingsrock, what would happen if it got bit by a cloister(or if the symbiotic shellder evolved) am I?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I'm not the only one who wonders that, if slowpoke evolves because a shellder bit its tail or its head while it was holding a kingsrock, what would happen if it got bit by a cloister(or if the symbiotic shellder evolved) am I?


I looked up art of what the theoretical result would be, found only one relevant image, aaaaand its really silly and badly drawn, don't bother wondering. it wouldn't be anything worth it, its just silly.

----------


## Qwertystop

At a guess, the symbiotic corkscrew shellder is technically already evolved into something else that can't further evolve.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I'm just saying that Mega Pokemon are better than the Dynamax and the Gigantmax version. I just not feeling the Giant Version of Pokemon. Mega Pokemon is a more powerful and much better option.


I actually kind of like dynamaxing. Mega evolution as a hero mechanic for your ace pokemon is too restrictive. What if I like one of the hundreds of Pokémon that don't have a mega form? At the same time it's more "personal" to the Pokémon you're using than Z-moves. Quagsire growing is inherently more about Quagsire than Quagsire having a stronger move, ones.

At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves. You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.

Gigantamax as a thing alongside dynamax is weird and was implemented weird. Not the biggest fan. Training up your mon's dynamax level seperately is also a bit meh. But I expect overall the gen 9 hero mechanic will be similar. Use on any pokémon, a minor visual change that emphasizes the mon's power, replacement moves or some added effect to moves (similar to Z-moves, would be a big improvement for status moves in particular).

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I actually kind of like dynamaxing. Mega evolution as a hero mechanic for your ace pokemon is too restrictive. What if I like one of the hundreds of Pokémon that don't have a mega form? At the same time it's more "personal" to the Pokémon you're using than Z-moves. Quagsire growing is inherently more about Quagsire than Quagsire having a stronger move, ones.
> 
> At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves. You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.
> 
> Gigantamax as a thing alongside dynamax is weird and was implemented weird. Not the biggest fan. Training up your mon's dynamax level seperately is also a bit meh. But I expect overall the gen 9 hero mechanic will be similar. Use on any pokémon, a minor visual change that emphasizes the mon's power, replacement moves or some added effect to moves (similar to Z-moves, would be a big improvement for status moves in particular).


That's a very reasonable and valid opinion. I respect your input on that.  :Smile:

----------


## Fable Wright

> *At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves.* You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.


*Wat.*  :Small Confused: 

I'm going to disagree here. Dynamaxing is something that involves skill, yes, but it *massively* doubles down on first-turn advantage. The first person to initiate Dynamax more or less has their pick of pokemon removed from the fight (what with hitting with an unexpected dynamax move with massive stat buffs) _and_ stacks on some pretty massive environmental or stat buff bonuses, meaning that the counter-dynamax is far less impactful, since a dynamax with e.g. +1 speed and +1 attack stage (looking at you, Gyarados/Hawlucha) is _far_ more threatening than a new counter-dynamax, and leads to pretty massive snowballing. Not to mention the fact that Dynamax removing choice lock from 'mon means that certain Choice cleaners (looking at Galarian Darmanitan with Gorilla Tactics and a Choice item as a prime abuser) can completely bypass their designated counter with a well-timed dynamaxed coverage move when, in _any_ other generation, it could be forced out with a counter.

It takes a huge chunk of the strategy of Pokemon and turns it into a single question: Is _now_ the time to dynamax? And if you get that question right, you win. If you don't, you lose.

It's more balanced in Doubles by a long shot, but it's a fundamentally aggressive ability that I'd argue concentrates the strategy of pokemon into one turn that decides the match. That's not an increase in strategy.

Evolution and Z-Moves are more team-building strategy, first and foremost. They don't change the match, they're just more customization options for a given pokemon. Neither is as match-swingy as Dynamax, of course, but you can _very_ easily justify a team without either, and they don't fundamentally decrease the amount of strategy in the game for their existence.

I'll also note that type changes from Mega evolutions can be seriously impactful, too, as someone who played a lot with Mega Pinsir. Adding flying type when Stealth Rocks exists is something you *really* need to be aware of.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I love Alcremie. She reminds me of the Toad Chef, Tayce T. from Paper Mario. I can imagine if Alcremie have her own cooking show: "Cooking With Alcremie."  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.


I dunno, some of these aren't really biology. for starters, magnemite is more probably electronics/machinery, grimer is probably closer to chemistry, trubbish is literal garbage, ghosts don't have physical form, voltorb might as well have the same diagram as a bomb-omb, and unown are freaking LETTERS and thus have an existence more conceptual and abstract than biological or ectological. this is just a few examples of the nonsensical existences of pokemon

like I'd just figure they are all on some level magic and trying to scientifically explain all of it is an exercise in futility that even Lockstin knows he has to give up on sometimes.

----------


## Rater202

> I dunno, some of these aren't really biology. for starters, magnemite is more probably electronics/machinery, grimer is probably closer to chemistry, trubbish is literal garbage, ghosts don't have physical form, voltorb might as well have the same diagram as a bomb-omb, and unown are freaking LETTERS and thus have an existence more conceptual and abstract than biological or ectological. this is just a few examples of the nonsensical existences of pokemon
> 
> like I'd just figure they are all on some level magic and trying to scientifically explain all of it is an exercise in futility that even Lockstin knows he has to give up on sometimes.


Yeah, but some of the ones that you wouldn't expect to be biological explicitly have biological traits: Milcery and alchemy both make allusions to having cells despite being made of what appears to be congealed milk.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Yeah, but some of the ones that you wouldn't expect to be biological explicitly have biological traits: Milcery and alcremie both make allusions to having cells despite being made of what appears to be congealed milk.


Wait I thought up of something even more confusing and horrifying: does Milcery come from miltanks? Do Miltank mothers feed their milcery children to their miltank children? are milcery and miltank destined to see each other as predator and prey from birth and milcery live their lives knowing they are born from their own predator?

----------


## Rater202

> Wait I thought up of something even more confusing and horrifying: does Milcery come from miltanks? Do Miltank mothers feed their milcery children to their miltank children? are milcery and miltank destined to see each other as predator and prey from birth and milcery live their lives knowing they are born from their own predator?


Milcery can be bred naturally, so I don't think there's a connection. Milcery and Alcremie also apparently like being eaten and can regenerate their cells. This actually has some disturbing implications.

The real question is where the hell wild Tauros come from.

Tauros is an all-male species, the only way to breed them in captivity is to pair them with a ditto.

Some people have speculated that Tauros and Miltank are two radically dimorphic forms of the same species similar to the Nidoran family, based on how they're both bovine and exclusively male and female respectively, but a miltank will only ever produce militanks, even if bred with Tauros.

----------


## Qwertystop

It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to speculate that there's differences between breeding in captivity and breeding in the wild that would explain some of the problems  after all, the various Incense items could be a way of mimicking a limited subset of environmental factors from a wild environment not present in captivity.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Is there any robot Pokemon that exist in the Pokemon universe?  :Confused:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Is there any robot Pokemon that exist in the Pokemon universe?


I suppose you dont mean Team Rocket robots lol ! But I consider Magneton line to be machine Pokémon. They are metal type, has no mouth or nose to breath or eat and with no gender.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.


Here you go.




> *Wat.* 
> 
> I'm going to disagree here. Dynamaxing is something that involves skill, yes, but it *massively* doubles down on first-turn advantage. The first person to initiate Dynamax more or less has their pick of pokemon removed from the fight (what with hitting with an unexpected dynamax move with massive stat buffs) _and_ stacks on some pretty massive environmental or stat buff bonuses, meaning that the counter-dynamax is far less impactful, since a dynamax with e.g. +1 speed and +1 attack stage (looking at you, Gyarados/Hawlucha) is _far_ more threatening than a new counter-dynamax, and leads to pretty massive snowballing. Not to mention the fact that Dynamax removing choice lock from 'mon means that certain Choice cleaners (looking at Galarian Darmanitan with Gorilla Tactics and a Choice item as a prime abuser) can completely bypass their designated counter with a well-timed dynamaxed coverage move when, in _any_ other generation, it could be forced out with a counter.
> 
> It takes a huge chunk of the strategy of Pokemon and turns it into a single question: Is _now_ the time to dynamax? And if you get that question right, you win. If you don't, you lose.
> 
> It's more balanced in Doubles by a long shot, but it's a fundamentally aggressive ability that I'd argue concentrates the strategy of pokemon into one turn that decides the match. That's not an increase in strategy.
> 
> Evolution and Z-Moves are more team-building strategy, first and foremost. They don't change the match, they're just more customization options for a given pokemon. Neither is as match-swingy as Dynamax, of course, but you can _very_ easily justify a team without either, and they don't fundamentally decrease the amount of strategy in the game for their existence.
> ...


Okay, so there are one or two major game breaking downsides...

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I suppose you dont mean Team Rocket robots lol ! But I consider Magneton line to be machine Pokémon. They are metal type, has no mouth or nose to breath or eat and with no gender.


Ok, thank you.  :Smile:

----------


## OracleofWuffing

I'd feel comfortable classifying Magearna as a robot.  Registeel is... Pretty close to the concept, too.  Golett and Golurk are a bit out left field, and I wouldn't argue with anyone saying they're _not_ a robot, but they're robot enough for me.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I'd feel comfortable classifying Magearna as a robot.  Registeel is... Pretty close to the concept, too.  Golett and Golurk are a bit out left field, and I wouldn't argue with anyone saying they're _not_ a robot, but they're robot enough for me.


Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept? I would personally not count Golett, Golurk or any of the Regi's.

----------


## Saambell

> Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept? I would personally not count Golett, Golurk or any of the Regi's.


Golett and Golurk are intentionally designed with the Iron Giant in mind, complete with knowing Fly. So that weird edge of "looks like something that doesn't count, but inspired by something that does".

Edit: The anime also really likes using it in place of giant robots/mecha in their stories. So it may not technically be a "robot" but its very much a stand in for one.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept?


I say one does not preclude the other.  One reason why I brought up Registeel and no other of its kin was that it's made out of stuff associated with robots and machines as we know them today.  Generally speaking, a robot is a machine made to do a task with little human intervention, they don't need to have microchips or circuit boards.  Cliche as it may be, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and I am aware of no rules preventing a golem (the folklore concept, not the pokemon  :Small Wink: ) from being made out of the same things as a robot.

Saying that Registeel is a golem implies that it is a thing made to do a task with little human intervention.  If that "thing" happens to be a machine, then it's a robot.  Not all golems are robots, not all robots are golems, but some can be both.  There's a point to acknowledge that Registeel isn't necessarily a machine, nor created to do a specific task, but this is due to an intentionally vague story that, in the most generous view, invites the player to fill in the blanks.

----------


## Emmerlaus

I think the Porygon and its evos are machine as well.

----------


## Rater202

> I think the Porygon and its evos are machine as well.


They're not, they're AI that's been projected into real space.

They are, however, entirely man-made.

Porygon does kind of get the short end of the stick though. It's been banned from the anime as a scapegoat for an incident caused by a combination of poor animation decisions. poor newsroom decisions(apparently, the news station that reported on the seizure incident _played the seizure-inducing clips_ during the report) and possibly mass hysteria.

In the games. they... are explicitly noted as of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to be obsolete, to have not succeeded in their purpose of space travel(I don't know why you'd bring computer code to life for that) and have been completely replaced in their role as the "AI and Internet" Pokemon by Rotom.

Also, they are a first form evolution that can only be evolved by trading and the use of unique evolution items simultaneously, and it's noted in-universe that their third form is glitched upgrade created by a hack of a hacker and that you got the upgrade from a disc of questionable legality or something along those lines.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> In the games. they... are explicitly noted as of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to be obsolete, to have not succeeded in their purpose of space travel(I don't know why you'd bring computer code to life for that) and have been completely replaced in their role as the "AI and Internet" Pokemon by Rotom.


where in Ultramoon did you read this, cause I never knew that, and I have that game.

you'd probably bring computer code to life for space travel, because its less resources. efficiency of resources is everything in a closed environment. if you could literally make digital energy have physical form from nothing, and make that energy intelligent enough to pilot the ship, you wouldn't need to plan for somehow setting up recycling systems to sustain human life, or need to repair a robot if they get damaged, because you can just make the ship have solar panels, drain energy to repair itself then get on with operating and repairing the ship if things go wrong. 

combine with the Conversion moves and it can literally adapt to any environment that it encounters. while its normal base typing keeps it adaptable and flexible and thus open to as much utility moves as redundancies as possible. 

its not a bad set up, and its a shame if its true because Rotom isn't better than porygon by any significant measure, in some way worse because it requires outside battle time and objects to change form and typing and they clearly just made that "obsolete" excuse up because they're too afraid to bring back Porygon even though the whole porygon epilepsy thing is 20+ years old by now and probably only known or remembered by hardcore fans who delve into Deep Lore after wondering why we never see the polygonal AI dino. its a shame.

----------


## Rater202

It's the Pokedex entries: In Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon you get Porygon by going to the Aether House after completing the Rainbow Rocket post-game thing(as opposed to the base game where you get it after becoming the Champion.)

It's Ultra Sun Pokedex entry


> This Pokémon was created using the cutting-edge science of 20 years ago, so many parts of it have since become obsolete.


Ultra Moon


> It was built 20 years ago by scientists who dreamed of exploring space. Their dreams have yet to come true.


Also... Porygon is a digital life-form brought to life and given permanent physical form.

Now, turning Pokemon into energy and storing them as data is one thing, but bringing porygon to life is something else entirely: You're literally creating matter out of nothing, and might be making energy out of nothing while we're at it.

That's more an "accidentally discovered it's possible so let's perfect it" thing than a "this is our first plan thing."

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I might consider Meltan and Melmetal as robots because they're pure steel type Pokemon.

----------


## boj0

So..does that make Perrserker a robot? Or Copperajah? What about Arceus-Steel?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So..does that make Perrserker a robot? Or Copperajah? What about Arceus-Steel?


No.

Some pokemon just have steel shells and hides. no typing ties you to one thing: poison type includes both venomous animals and living animate pollutants after all.

----------


## boj0

I know, I'm calling into question Bartmanhomer's logic that some Pokemon are robots due to pure Steel typing, by asking about Steel types that are clearly not robots.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I know, I'm calling into question Bartmanhomer's logic that some Pokemon are robots due to pure Steel typing, by asking about Steel types that are clearly not robots.


oh sorry. That makes more sense. 

(personally I think Lvl 2 Expert's opinion that golems and robots are different things is splitting hairs and that there is no good reason why something predating something else somehow makes it exempt from being another thing, but whatever)

----------


## Rater202

If a robot is defined as an intentionally constructed automaton, then that would include golems.

There have been toys that we now always would recognize as rudimentary robots for centuries and the earliest conception of what might be considered a modern robot dates back to Greek Myth.

Technically, this definition would include Porygon as an autonomous synthetic organism, but most people think of gears and wires and metal, not pure AI that happens to exist in real space.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I also want to critique the Pokemon Accuracy and Evasion Status. Ever since Generation 1, some moves will increase or decreased Pokemon Accuracy and Evasion status but yet they didn't include this status in the game. The only status they include is Hit Points, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed. They should include Accuracy And Evasion Status in the game as well.

----------


## Rater202

Accuracy status is part of the move, not the pokemon: Each move has an accuracy number stating how often it hits at base level

Though some moves calculate it differently: Guillotine says that it's accurate is 30, but instead, it bypasses the accuracy check entirely and has t's ods of hitting calculated with a formula wherein the targets level is subtracted from the users, then added to 30, to determine the odds of hitting(this is why it fails if the target is a higher level and why it almost never seems to work if you use it on a mon that's close to you in level.)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Accuracy status is part of the move, not the pokemon: Each move has an accuracy number stating how often it hits at base level
> 
> Though some moves calculate it differently: Guillotine says that it's accurate is 30, but instead, it bypasses the accuracy check entirely and has t's ods of hitting calculated with a formula wherein the targets level is subtracted from the users, then added to 30, to determine the odds of hitting(this is why it fails if the target is a higher level and why it almost never seems to work if you use it on a mon that's close to you in level.)


I still think that accuracy and evasion stats are just as important just like any other stats to be included in the game and I know that one hit moves never work unless you use Mind Reading and Lock-On. These moves are 100% accurate.

----------


## Fable Wright

> I still think that accuracy and evasion stats are just as important just like any other stats to be included in the game and I know that one hit moves never work unless you use Mind Reading and Lock-On. These moves are 100% accurate.


The pokemon accuracy and evasion stats are all the same outside of battle, and never vary per pokemon. They are important in battle, _only when changed_; otherwise, they are all the same per pokemon. Why include a number in the statline that's the same for each and every pokemon?

Accuracy and Evasion in battle, on the other hand, affect moves' success rate. For example, Accuracy at +1 stage increases all of that pokemon's move's accuracy by 33%; so a 75% accuracy move will become a 99% accuracy move. Meanwhile, Evasion at +1 means that incoming moves have their accuracy decreased by 25%, so a 100% accurate move will miss 25% of the time, and a 75% accurate move will miss 44% of the time.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The pokemon accuracy and evasion stats are all the same outside of battle, and never vary per pokemon. They are important in battle, _only when changed_; otherwise, they are all the same per pokemon. Why include a number in the statline that's the same for each and every pokemon?
> 
> Accuracy and Evasion in battle, on the other hand, affect moves' success rate. For example, Accuracy at +1 stage increases all of that pokemon's move's accuracy by 33%; so a 75% accuracy move will become a 99% accuracy move. Meanwhile, Evasion at +1 means that incoming moves have their accuracy decreased by 25%, so a 100% accurate move will miss 25% of the time, and a 75% accurate move will miss 44% of the time.


Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.

----------


## Rater202

...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?

All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> ...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?
> 
> All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.


I think so too. I'm picturing a Fighting-Type Eeveelution will be muscular.  :Smile:

----------


## Saambell

> ...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?
> 
> All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.


I imagine a purple and yellow dragon thing that preys on sheep pokemon. That way lies lawsuits though.

----------


## boj0

> Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.


1) Pokemon already have different Accuracy and Evasions, that's what abilities like No Guard, Compound Eyes, Hustle, Sand Veil, and items like Bright Powder are for. 

2) If you mean something like all ~900 Pokemon have Accuracy and Evasion stats beyond "The move they use" and "None" adjusted by Abilities, then you've just created a mess so large, that at that point I would gladly welcome the death of Pokemon as a franchise.

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## Bartmanhomer

> 1) Pokemon already have different Accuracy and Evasions, that's what abilities like No Guard, Compound Eyes, Hustle, Sand Veil, and items like Bright Powder are for. 
> 
> 2) If you mean something like all ~900 Pokemon have Accuracy and Evasion stats beyond "The move they use" and "None" adjusted by Abilities, then you've just created a mess so large, that at that point I would gladly welcome the death of Pokemon as a franchise.


I like the first one better.

----------


## Saambell

> Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.


Pokemon don't have those stats. MOVES have Accuracy, and all a Pokemon changing those "stats" is just modifying the MOVE'S Accuracy. So raising its own accuracy makes its move's accuracy go up, but what that number is is based on the move. And raising evasion is just lowering the MOVE-that-is-targeting-them's evasion. If you want to see those numbers, check what the numbers are on the move. Every move has 3 sets of numbers connected with them, at minimum. Power, Accuracy, and Power Points. So Fire Blast has Power 110, Accuracy 85, and Power Points 5/5. So that means unless you boost Acc or Evasion, in theory a Fire Blast will hit 85% of the time. But when a pokemon boosts its Accuracy, its modifying its MOVE's accuracy, not itself. Cause each move has its own stats. So your "where do I see a pokemon's accuracy stat" has the answer "its listed under its moves stats". Now yes, it would be nice if boosting your accuracy would change that stat in a way you can see it when you go to select that move, but that's a future thing that the games may later add.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Pokemon don't have those stats. MOVES have Accuracy, and all a Pokemon changing those "stats" is just modifying the MOVE'S Accuracy. So raising its own accuracy makes its move's accuracy go up, but what that number is is based on the move. And raising evasion is just lowering the MOVE-that-is-targeting-them's evasion. If you want to see those numbers, check what the numbers are on the move. Every move has 3 sets of numbers connected with them, at minimum. Power, Accuracy, and Power Points. So Fire Blast has Power 110, Accuracy 85, and Power Points 5/5. So that means unless you boost Acc or Evasion, in theory a Fire Blast will hit 85% of the time. But when a pokemon boosts its Accuracy, its modifying its MOVE's accuracy, not itself. Cause each move has its own stats. So your "where do I see a pokemon's accuracy stat" has the answer "its listed under its moves stats". Now yes, it would be nice if boosting your accuracy would change that stat in a way you can see it when you go to select that move, but that's a future thing that the games may later add.


I see. Thank you for explaining it to me.  :Smile:

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## Rater202

> I imagine a purple and yellow dragon thing that preys on sheep pokemon. That way lies lawsuits though.


Just invert the colors and shift them: Make it gold and mauve.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

You know, I never realized just how well this theme-team synergizes. I don't think I ever made a team with that good a distribution of weaknesses and resistances on purpose. That's the power of a water/grass/fire core I guess.



They even have a good diversity in roles between them, and it even works relatively well trying to base their moves/items/roles on their character traits.

*Spoiler: One option for specifics*
Show

Leonardo (Wartortle) @ Shell Bell  
Ability: Torrent  
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe  
- Surf  
- Aqua Jet  
- Ice Punch  
- Brick Break  

Donatello (Grotle) @ Zoom Lens  
Ability: Shell Armor  
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Def  
- Leech Seed  
- Body Slam  
- Iron Tail  
- Synthesis  

Raphael (Torkoal) @ Life Orb  
Ability: White Smoke  
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA  
- Overheat  
- Superpower  
- Double-Edge  
- Explosion  

Michaelangelo (Shuckle) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Contrary  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD  
- Knock Off  
- Encore  
- Infestation  
- Toxic  

Splinter (Raticate) @ Expert Belt  
Ability: Guts  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
- Sucker Punch  
- Facade  
- Rock Smash  
- U-turn

(In gen8 Wartortle can have Shell Smash, which is too perfect, but some of the other mon haven't been released for gen8 (yet?).)

(Raticate Splinter probably also kind of works as a supportive HM user for the group.)


 I may have to do a run as April O'Neil now.

*Spoiler: Choosing Shuckle over Tirtouga/Carracosta*
Show


Okay, so Shuckle is not really a turtle. But it looks like one. Tirtouga/Carracosta do not have a middle stage, making whichever one you pick look the least like a teenager. They also have a type overlap with both Wartortle and Shuckle, losing us some of that sweet synergy. Tirtouga would also be easily the weakest Pokémon on the team. Carracosta would in terms of total base stats still be a little weaker then Shuckle, but Shuckle is such an overspecialized creature that in practice it fits the power level of the team better than Carracosta does. Shuckle also kind of works for Mikey's personality as a mon that just keeps hopping around its opponent without going down while annoying it. Plus it gets not one but two fitting abilities in Contrary and Gluttony. Color scheme wise you could argue for replacing Grotle with Tirtouga/Carracosta as Donatello, but that just gives you double type overlap. If only Grotle got Wood Hammer, then I'd have a definitive argument for making it the definitive best Donatello.

----------


## boj0

As someone who has ran a TMNT themed team before, I feel like you're sleeping on Tirtouga, Shell Smash more than makes up for low stats when used with a focus sash/white herb/eviolite.
Alternatively, Bisharp for Shredder or Golurk for Krang are solid options.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> As someone who has ran a TMNT themed team before,


What kind of run/thing did you do with that? Who was what? And how did it go?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> You know, I never realized just how well this theme-team synergizes. I don't think I ever made a team with that good a distribution of weaknesses and resistances on purpose. That's the power of a water/grass/fire core I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> They even have a good diversity in roles between them, and it even works relatively well trying to base their moves/items/roles on their character traits.
> 
> *Spoiler: One option for specifics*
> Show
> 
> ...


Oh cool! That's awesome! Heroes in the half-shell, turtle power!  :Biggrin:

----------


## boj0

This was back in 5th gen, if I remember; I was running Blastoise (Donny), Torkoal (Raph), Torterra (Mikey), Carracosta (Leo), Raticate (Splinter), and Bisharp (Shredder). Blastoise was a bulky rapid spinner with counter/mirror coat, Torkoal was specs, Torterra was rock polish physical attacker, and Carracosta was a shell smash sweeper. Raticate was flame orb guts, and Bisharp was a basic SD + Dark spam. 
The team was okay at getting some wins in low to mid OU, despite being a UU team. Nothing crazy, but it was fun and people got a chuckle out of playing it.

----------


## Rater202

Ice Type is very good for offense, dealing double damage to four types, but not so good at defense--it takes double damage from four rather common types.

Despite this, most pure or primary ice types favor defense over offense in stat distribution.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

You know what, I'm thinking of writing my own Pokemon Fan Fiction Story only with Generation 1 from the Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee Game. I thought about the character's main origin story that the story will start in Viridian City instead of Pallet Town and his Pokemon team is Ground/Flying Type. What do you think?  :Smile:

----------


## Spore

> Despite this, most pure or primary ice types favor defense over offense in stat distribution.


It really is a shame though isn't it? Anyone who tries to remove ice, (proper ice, not slush or a bit of rough snow) can attest to it being incredibly hard to the touch. Ice should be a GREAT defensive type, and at least resist fighting. Ever punched an ice cube before? Yea, that is not going well. And while you are at it, it might resist dragon and fairy too.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> It really is a shame though isn't it? Anyone who tries to remove ice, (proper ice, not slush or a bit of rough snow) can attest to it being incredibly hard to the touch. Ice should be a GREAT defensive type, and at least resist fighting. Ever punched an ice cube before? Yea, that is not going well. And while you are at it, it might resist dragon and fairy too.


I remember like just a few days ago when I had to shovel off snow out of my drive way. I was recovering from two or three hours of work for two days and I felt aches and pains all over my body. snow is heavy. and thats not even real ice as you say.

----------


## Rater202

> I remember like just a few days ago when I had to shovel off snow out of my drive way. I was recovering from two or three hours of work for two days and I felt aches and pains all over my body. snow is heavy. and thats not even real ice as you say.


Yeah.

In a vacuum, Ice makes sense as a defensive typing.

But in practice the way it matches up to other types it's not so good for what is clearly its intended purpose.

Like, people say that Grass is the worst type for tanks and that's why chikorita isn't a good starter but most of grass weaknesses aren't exactly common. Anyone whose watch TFS's Nuzlockes knows that that evolutionary line is a great tank.

----------


## danzibr

> You know what, I'm thinking of writing my own Pokemon Fan Fiction Story only with Generation 1 from the Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee Game. I thought about the character's main origin story that the story will start in Viridian City instead of Pallet Town and his Pokemon team is Ground/Flying Type. What do you think?


Yeah man, go for it!

----------


## Saambell

So sometime tomorrow or the day after the Pokemon Company is doing a big stream or something with some kind of big news. Given a few hints their build up tweets and reminders have contained, the current fear/hope is Gen 4 remakes. But not just any Gen 4 remakes, remakes in the style of Lets Go. Which personally is something I am really hoping for. A few friends of mine who have gotten tired of the normal Pokemon mechanics say Lets Go were the best Pokemon games they have played in years. Also it would be a great way to annoy those super competitive power gamers who think the last two Lets Go were bad cause they couldn't do their usual meta game nonsense with them. 

So here's hoping the news brings some people joy, for what ever reason it may be.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> You know what, I'm thinking of writing my own Pokemon Fan Fiction Story only with Generation 1 from the Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee Game. I thought about the character's main origin story that the story will start in Viridian City instead of Pallet Town and his Pokemon team is Ground/Flying Type. What do you think?


Sure! But do it for yourself, not your readers! I did this mistake once. Now I write only for my own pleasure and not for other approuval... even if the approuval IS nice lol!  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Rater202

> So sometime tomorrow or the day after the Pokemon Company is doing a big stream or something with some kind of big news. Given a few hints their build up tweets and reminders have contained, the current fear/hope is Gen 4 remakes. But not just any Gen 4 remakes, remakes in the style of Lets Go. Which personally is something I am really hoping for. A few friends of mine who have gotten tired of the normal Pokemon mechanics say Lets Go were the best Pokemon games they have played in years. Also it would be a great way to annoy those super competitive power gamers who think the last two Lets Go were bad cause they couldn't do their usual meta game nonsense with them. 
> 
> So here's hoping the news brings some people joy, for what ever reason it may be.


Could be interesting.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yeah man, go for it!


Thank you.  :Smile: 



> Sure! But do it for yourself, not your readers! I did this mistake once. Now I write only for my own pleasure and not for other approuval... even if the approuval IS nice lol!


Good advice. Thank you.  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

The idea of a pokemon region based on Texas popped into my head.

It would have a regional variant of Tauros, fire/steel with a rather intimidating almost demonic visage and horns like those of texas longhorn cattle.

The fire/steal typing and demonic visage would be an allusion to the song _Ghost Riders in The Sky_: "Their brands were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel, their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel."

----------


## boj0

Well to the surprise of no one, we are getting Diamond and Pearl remakes. Gen 4 looks like a chibi version of the DS games, personally I would have preferred them doing something like the Link's Awakening remake, where they made it especially stylized and more details added. So it currently looks just as bare, but shinier.

Legends Arceus is looking like the open world Pokemon heartbreaker people have been clamoring for; at the very least being able to actually just throw a ball without needing to battle will be refreshing. Cyndaquil coming back as a starter is what's going to get me on board. Honestly, I'm far more interested in the side game than the remakes.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The idea of a pokemon region based on Texas popped into my head.
> 
> It would have a regional variant of Tauros, fire/steel with a rather intimidating almost demonic visage and horns like those of texas longhorn cattle.
> 
> The fire/steal typing and demonic visage would be an allusion to the song _Ghost Riders in The Sky_: "Their brands were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel, their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel."


I love that idea of Tauros.

Anyway, I got a question to ask everyone. Have Pokemon ever changed your life in a minor or major way?  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

I learned not to trust people blindly when my cousin stole my pokemon cards and his mother and my parents just let him leave with them when I said they were mine.

He insisted they were his but he pulled them out of our cabinet and almost every card in my album was gone.

I'm not angry at him anymore(though he still insists they were his cards) but I can't help but be angry in general thinking about it... _I had a Rocket's Moltres for fricks sake!_ but...

Nobody but me seems to think it's a big deal but god damn.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I learned not to trust people blindly when my cousin stole my pokemon cards and his mother and my parents just let him leave with them when I said they were mine.
> 
> He insisted they were his but he pulled them out of our cabinet and almost every card in my album was gone.
> 
> I'm not angry at him anymore(though he still insists they were his cards) but I can't help but be angry in general thinking about it... _I had a Rocket's Moltres for fricks sake!_ but...
> 
> Nobody but me seems to think it's a big deal but god damn.


Well, I remember a friend of mine back in my childhood school when Generation 1 Pokemon cards were popular back then. His Charizard card was stolen but he got it back. They banned Pokemon cards at my school after that.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I got a question to ask everyone. Have Pokemon ever changed your life in a minor or major way?


It made me learn English early. I was literally recording the episodes because I wasnt home when they went into air. When I was watching them, I would have a dictionnary by my side so I would be able to pause, look up the word and continue once I get it.

It also was the game I threw myself into (Pokemon Blue I think or maybe Silver) when my parents divorced. So it helped me get over this event.

I also felt like an hipster where I live as went they were translated and started to get popular, I could say I was into it way before them as I discovered the Pokemon serie at the same time as the American lol

*EDIT:* As for thievery goes, I never played Pokemon TCG but my brother was stealing my MTG cards and a guy at school was ripping me off for cards sell so I just stopped caring and sold my cards. But yeah, never trusted my brother after that or totally forgave him... in fact, I put in my will that my brother will get no money from me but instead get my collection of MTG cards. And before you judge me, Its not like he has money problem, he makes WAY more then me. But it's a nice jab at him while giving him something of value that my soulmate doesn't want lol

Thievery is so common when it comes to TCG and I know your pain. I was stolen once in my own locker as well in high-school. I think that cimented my decision to "never buy mtg cards again"... well until I discovered the C0mmander format decennies later lol  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> It made me learn English early. I was literally recording the episodes because I wasnt home when they went into air. When I was watching them, I would have a dictionnary by my side so I would be able to pause, look up the word and continue once I get it.
> 
> It also was the game I threw myself into (Pokemon Blue I think or maybe Silver) when my parents divorced. So it helped me get over this event.
> 
> I also felt like an hipster where I live as went they were translated and started to get popular, I could say I was into it way before them as I discovered the Pokemon serie at the same time as the American lol
> 
> *EDIT:* As for thievery goes, I never played Pokemon TCG but my brother was stealing my MTG cards and a guy at school was ripping me off for cards sell so I just stopped caring and sold my cards. But yeah, never trusted my brother after that or totally forgave him... in fact, I put in my will that my brother will get no money from me but instead get my collection of MTG cards. And before you judge me, Its not like he has money problem, he makes WAY more then me. But it's a nice jab at him while giving him something of value that my soulmate doesn't want lol
> 
> Thievery is so common when it comes to TCG and I know your pain. I was stolen once in my own locker as well in high-school. I think that cimented my decision to "never buy mtg cards again"... well until I discovered the C0mmander format decennies later lol


That's very cool that you learn English by watching old Pokemon episode.

Anyway I need your opinion and feedback if this a good Ground/Flying Pokemon team:

Kanto Sandslash
Mega Charizard Y
Nidoqueen
Butterfree
Nidoking
Mega Pidgeot

----------


## Fable Wright

> That's very cool that you learn English by watching old Pokemon episode.
> 
> Anyway I need your opinion and feedback if this a good Ground/Flying Pokemon team:
> 
> Kanto Sandslash
> Mega Charizard Y
> Nidoqueen
> Butterfree
> Nidoking
> Mega Pidgeot


For singles or doubles?

If it's for singles: It's awful. You've got no ice-type switch-ins, you've got two pokemon taking 4x damage for stealth rocks, no Sand Stream user to set up for only rapid spinner to spin without getting KO'd, and doubling up on Poison/Ground is just _really bad_. And why are you using PU tier pokemon (butterfree) on a team with an OU powerhouse? There's also the nonbo of Mega Charizard Y's drought decreasing Hurricane's accuracy.

Oh, and of course, the fact that you've got two megas on the same team when both of those pokemon are _really bad_ when not Mega'd. So there is that.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> For singles or doubles?
> 
> If it's for singles: It's awful. You've got no ice-type switch-ins, you've got two pokemon taking 4x damage for stealth rocks, no Sand Stream user to set up for only rapid spinner to spin without getting KO'd, and doubling up on Poison/Ground is just _really bad_. And why are you using PU tier pokemon (butterfree) on a team with an OU powerhouse? There's also the nonbo of Mega Charizard Y's drought decreasing Hurricane's accuracy.
> 
> Oh, and of course, the fact that you've got two megas on the same team when both of those pokemon are _really bad_ when not Mega'd. So there is that.


Oh, man! Thank you for your critique of my Ground/Flying Team.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> For singles or doubles?


For his Let's Go based fanfiction.




> You know what, I'm thinking of writing my own Pokemon Fan Fiction Story only with Generation 1 from the Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee Game. I thought about the character's main origin story that the story will start in Viridian City instead of Pallet Town and his Pokemon team is Ground/Flying Type. What do you think?





> Anyway I need your opinion and feedback if this a good Ground/Flying Pokemon team:
> 
> Kanto Sandslash
> Mega Charizard Y
> Nidoqueen
> Butterfree
> Nidoking
> Mega Pidgeot


Honestly I think it's pretty good for what you had to work with. It's just, you know, Kanto only, you don't have a lot to work with.

Let's start with the obvious: both Ground and Flying types are weak to Ice. It's not a common Pokémon type for opponents to carry, but it's a great type for coverage moves. Smart opponents will often have some Ice move user on their team. (Also there's Lorelei in the Elite 4, if that's going to be in the story.) To have a Pokémon that's not weak to Ice you need to have a double type with Ice itself, Water, Steel or Fire. Of these two Steel and Water would be by far the most preferable. Steelix or Mantine or Quagsire could improve the team's type coverage a lot. Piloswine/Mamoswine would have a bunch of weaknesses, because Ice types are defensively bad in general, but at least it's not really doubling up on things your team is already weak to. Charizard is the best pick Kanto has to offer, and it's a good choice for your mega, seeing that if it fails to stop that ice beam user your team is dead. But compared to choices available outside of Kanto it's super bad. It even adds another Water weakness to the team.

Another big one is Ground/Rock types. Not the worst in general, but borderline unusable on a Ground typed team, and in this case a half Ground typed team. You just can't use double Grass and Water weaknesses if half your team is weak to Water and Grass already. Kanto is full of them. You found this problem, and used none of them, but to do that you had to resort to using both Nidoking and Nidoqueen, which offer very much the same things, it might almost as well be a duplicate Pokémon. It's just not elegant.

And these type problems stemming from only using a single generation worth of Pokémon mean you're also struggling on team roles and stat distributions. Yeah, you have some more speedy sweepers and some more bulky tanks, but an annoying wall would be quite nice to have too. I guess Nidoking, Nidoqueen and Pidgeot are decent scouts, as in good Pokémon to throw out first to meet whatever the enemy brings, but more setup options definitely wouldn't hurt either. And I can't really suggest improvements because you're limited by the format.

If I were you I might just cheat and write about a version of Let's Go Kanto where people use a few mon from outside the region every now and then. Just a single Johto Pokémon and maybe an alternate form (Alolan Dugtrio?) or a later evolution of one of the Kanto mon or something could help a lot.

----------


## Fable Wright

> For his Let's Go based fanfiction.


Oh. In that case...

Mega Charizard Y is definitely the core of the team, and the sweeper that you want to protect.

Adding in Gyarados as your second flier adds a physical wall to the team, even if it doesn't combo well with drought, and it's a second pokemon that can take an ice beam. It can help act as a physical wall with Intimidate, and can set up threateningly with Dragon Dance. Could be a bulky pivot that can set up if given a chance?

Both of them have a stealth rocks weakness, so... yeah, Sandslash is necessary here for the 'spin, even if it's not _good_ at the job. It just needs to get there.

Nidoking is useful as a good offensive wallbreaker with Stealth Rocks support, that gets Ice Beam. It's really good to have around.

Crowbat can be surprisingly bulky, even if they weren't in the original Kanto, and its Taunt/Roost/Brave Bird combo and super good resistances/immunities means that it's going to have some chances to really shine. 

Finally, Dragonite is... well, definitely the best left in Kanto, but Aerodactyl isn't _bad._ Dragonite has a key water resist when Aerodactyl has a key water weakness, it can set up, it can hit like a truck, it's practically cheating. Aerodactyl suffers from role overlap with Crobat, but could be your other Stealth Rock user, and is great at checking other Flying pokemon in general. You could _start out_ with Butterfree in this slot, and move to an Aerodactyl/Dragonite when you reach the endgame, perhaps?

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Adding in Gyarados


Gyarados! Gyarados is good old gen 1! How did I not think of that while actually name dropping Mantine. Totally yes, Gyarados makes this team so much better.

Gyarados makes anything better, really. Especially stories. Big scary sea monster dragon looking raging mystery from the depths giant serpent beast.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Gyarados! Gyarados is good old gen 1! How did I not think of that while actually name dropping Mantine. Totally yes, Gyarados makes this team so much better.
> 
> Gyarados makes anything better, really. Especially stories. Big scary sea monster dragon looking raging mystery from the depths giant serpent beast.


I know Im the oddball on this but Mantine make me think of Depth Charge from Beast-Wars and to Crocodile Dundee death from a manta ray stinger. Since Mata rays are not to be overlooked, I feel the same for Mantine. I know its a weird way of thinking but what can I say, I explained my way of thinking th best I could. Oh and Mantine pre-evo is one of the cutest Pokemon lol

ALSO... I have more interest in a fanfic that goes the extra lenght to give limelight to Pokemon that aren't in the strong Meta or popular like Guyrados.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> For his Let's Go based fanfiction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I think it's pretty good for what you had to work with. It's just, you know, Kanto only, you don't have a lot to work with.
> 
> Let's start with the obvious: both Ground and Flying types are weak to Ice. It's not a common Pokémon type for opponents to carry, but it's a great type for coverage moves. Smart opponents will often have some Ice move user on their team. (Also there's Lorelei in the Elite 4, if that's going to be in the story.) To have a Pokémon that's not weak to Ice you need to have a double type with Ice itself, Water, Steel or Fire. Of these two Steel and Water would be by far the most preferable. Steelix or Mantine or Quagsire could improve the team's type coverage a lot. Piloswine/Mamoswine would have a bunch of weaknesses, because Ice types are defensively bad in general, but at least it's not really doubling up on things your team is already weak to. Charizard is the best pick Kanto has to offer, and it's a good choice for your mega, seeing that if it fails to stop that ice beam user your team is dead. But compared to choices available outside of Kanto it's super bad. It even adds another Water weakness to the team.
> ...


You're right. I guess I can use a Pokemon outside of the region. 😃

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Fable Wright, what would you think about Scyther in the "I wanted a Bug type for more options vs Grass" slot? Maybe like a Swords Dance set, the protagonist could get an Eviolite at some point (if this fanfiction uses held items) to give it a bit more bulk on the setup turn for some battles.

Because I feel like the flying half of the team actually looks pretty good with Charizard (Y), Gyarados and Scyther.

The ground half would be a little tougher, but with the minimal amount of cheating the protagonist could evolve an Onix to get Sandslash, Nidoking and Steelix.

The team still has four Water weaknesses (Emolga (or Zapdos) is a lot of fun on Ground/Flying teams as well, especially in doubles), but it doesn't feel too bad aside from that...


Of course, @Bartmanhomer, as Emmerlaus pointed out, we're just theorycrafting a good team given the restrictions. We cannot account for your main character's personality or the things that just happen on their journey. The original team you proposed is a good team to write a story about, as is any other variation. I'm mostly thinking about this from the angle of "if I were trying to do this as a challenge run, what could I do to make things easier/beat the game at a lower level."

And yes, my answer was "cheat". I'm disappointed in me.

----------


## Fable Wright

> Fable Wright, what would you think about Scyther in the "I wanted a Bug type for more options vs Grass" slot? Maybe like a Swords Dance set, the protagonist could get an Eviolite at some point (if this fanfiction uses held items) to give it a bit more bulk on the setup turn for some battles.


I feel like grass is already a _really_ good matchup at the moment. Only Gyarados and Sandslash have a weakness to grass, while Crobat _and_ Charizard have a 4x resist, and Nidoking hits it for super effective poison damage.

The main issue with Scyther, and the only reason I didn't include it, is that 4x weakness to rock.

I ran with a USUM Mono-Bug team and loved it to pieces in competitive.

You do not know pain until you send out Volcarona or Mega-Pinsir and they immediately lose half their health. You already have one 'mon like that in Charizard, and the other flying 'mons have issues switching into rocks already. (Also, Stone Edge is a super common coverage move and it's just bad feels when you run into it.)

This slot is basically Crobat vs Scyther, and I think Crobat does *a lot* more stuff that the team could really need. Fast Taunts, Defogs to remove rocks, and it can Roost to remove Stealth Rock chip. Can also pivot quite well with U-Turn to scout and slip in your best sweeper, though that's either in the Brave Bird or Taunt slot which limits utility.




> The ground half would be a little tougher, but with the minimal amount of cheating the protagonist could evolve an Onix to get Sandslash, Nidoking and Steelix.
> 
> The team still has four Water weaknesses (Emolga (or Zapdos) is a lot of fun on Ground/Flying teams as well, especially in doubles), but it doesn't feel too bad aside from that...


So the water weakness is partially mitigated by Charizard's Drought, but anyone setting Rain Dance is... going to give you a bad time. A really bad time.

Also, if you didn't want to cheat, I feel like you could still do well by using Dugtrio in the Steelix slot. It is, to be clear, not that bulky, and doesn't add any new resistances. By all rights, it _should_ be bad.

But. Arena trap. Memento. Final Gambit. Reversal/Focus Sash. Dugtrio's going down to most anything, so who cares what type it is? It's basically a typeless utility move user, which the team could really use.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Well, my main protagonist will start with only a Sandshrew that he got from his family and will start from Pallet Town which he was moved from Viridian City, and start his adventure from there.  :Smile:

----------


## DataNinja

> Are you asking me about it?


It's a spambot that copies stuff earlier in the thread to repost to try and slip past the spambot detection.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> It's a spambot that copies stuff earlier in the thread to repost to try and slip past the spambot detection.


Thank you for telling me about that.

----------


## boj0

Yeah, I try to be wary of any post that just copies a multi-paragraph post and respnds with less than a sentence that amounts to "Yep, I agree."

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Yeah, I try to be wary of any post that just copies a multi-paragraph post and respnds with less than a sentence that amounts to "Yep, I agree."


Woo... I did that a few times but simply because I was busy and yet couldnt take the time to articulate a more elaborated answer! I guess I should refrain of doing so from now on  :Small Eek:

----------


## boj0

See? Like that.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> See? Like that.


Oooh ok. So it's THAT obvious! Good to know!

----------


## Mark Hall

> Woo... I did that a few times but simply because I was busy and yet couldnt take the time to articulate a more elaborated answer! I guess I should refrain of doing so from now on


*The Mod Ogre:* History matters a fair bit, though. You've got over 11,000 posts... your occasional "I am just chiming in" posts are assumed to be you just chiming in, not building past the 10-post requirement for posting a link. Doesn't let you get away with rule-breaking... "The Mods are poopy-heads" is still gonna catch you a warning, if not some points... but we're not going to give you more than a "Please Don't", if that, for those kinds of posts.

We're heartless, Judge-Dredd style, enforcers, not ****-heads.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## boj0

> Oooh ok. So it's THAT obvious! Good to know!


I feel like I should mention that there was a post I was responding to that has been removed, I'm not calling you out, and I'm not sure if you saw the really obvious bot post; but I have no problems with what you have posted I just thought it was funny that right as it came up we got one in response.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I feel like I should mention that there was a post I was responding to that has been removed, I'm not calling you out, and I'm not sure if you saw the really obvious bot post; but I have no problems with what you have posted I just thought it was funny that right as it came up we got one in response.


I saw it, hence why I was surprised how obvious it was. But did not have time to answer it immediately because of real life. By the time I answered, the original post had been removed lol  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> "The Mods are poopy-heads"


Hey, your words, not ours.

Although none of us would of course dare suggest the mods aren't always right.





I mean uhh, how about those Pokémon huh? My headcanon is that everyone who's not best friends with the regional professor's kid gets their starter from the local gym. They're given a choice of a number of locally caught or bred Pokémon fitting the gym's type or theme. Nothing special, no hyper rare exotic mon, something like a choice between Wooper, Numel and Nidoran for a ground type gym for instance.

It doesn't quite match the society we see in the games, but it gets closer than the idea that everyone who turns ten gets the same choice of three Pokémon you don't see anywhere else during your journey.

----------


## Qwertystop

> I mean uhh, how about those Pokémon huh? My headcanon is that everyone who's not best friends with the regional professor's kid gets their starter from the local gym. They're given a choice of a number of locally caught or bred Pokémon fitting the gym's type or theme. Nothing special, no hyper rare exotic mon, something like a choice between Wooper, Numel and Nidoran for a ground type gym for instance.
> 
> It doesn't quite match the society we see in the games, but it gets closer than the idea that everyone who turns ten gets the same choice of three Pokémon you don't see anywhere else during your journey.


We actually see one example of that  Wally in Gen 3 asks Norman for help and Norman pushes you off to help Wally catch whatever happens to turn up first in the nearest patch of grass. It's probably like that in general  not necessarily gym-specific, just whatever's local unless someone happens to decide to give the new kid a gift. Maybe sometimes it's the family's pet's egg or similar.

----------


## DataNinja

> We actually see one example of that  Wally in Gen 3 asks Norman for help and Norman pushes you off to help Wally catch whatever happens to turn up first in the nearest patch of grass. It's probably like that in general  not necessarily gym-specific, just whatever's local unless someone happens to decide to give the new kid a gift. Maybe sometimes it's the family's pet's egg or similar.


And then you have Nanu in Gen 7. Where you see him actually doing his job for once, and offering a kid three starters... that're all Alolan Meowths.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Last night I dream that I battle against Mewtwo with my Magikarp. Mewtwo was using Psychic on Magikarp by it missed. My Magikarp was using Tackle and it KO Mewtwo with one-hit. Best Pokemon battle dream ever!  :Biggrin:

----------


## Rater202

A little bit ago, Austin of Game Theory and Shoddycast released a video talking about the Pokerus virus and how it works...

He gets some details of EV training wrong, but... Basically, he points out that something like Pokerus, a virus that makes you better instead of worse and continues to have an effect after the virus completly leaves your system is very plausible... But not in nature.

He speculates that Pokerus is a gene therapy treatment that was accidentally released into the wild.

And this has given me some ideas vis a vis that Pokemon cyberpunk Idea I had a while ago.

A "Pokerus 2.0" if you will... But I'm not sure what exactly it would do beyond vague ideas of it being involved in the process of modifying the PCs.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> A "Pokerus 2.0" if you will... But I'm not sure what exactly it would do beyond vague ideas of it being involved in the process of modifying the PCs.


It could be a plausible reason why people just start mutating into pokemon hybrids without needing to directly involve a mad scientist every time, because without it, there is the problem of how does the information of it spread because if a mad scientist is a villain we'd either have to agree for at least one to escape and spread the information, or for the mega-corp doing it to have backups of the information, or to not defeat that scientist immediately no matter how logical or pragmatic our characters are about opposing them. 

the best part is since its a virus so a lot of what it can do, can change as it mutates and thus depend on the plot: different strains can develop for different stories and thus one strain doing this or that doesn't need to be explained why another strain is doing something else, and we wouldn't always have to justify a particularly strange change as being an intentional design because we may not always come up with a reason why someone would design this or that. 

basically it could be a plot device that offers wiggle room for things we could not normally do without it as long as we keep in mind that we decide who it effects, how it affects them and when and those can change on a case by case basis.

----------


## Rater202

Thinking about it, since the base Pokerus permanently doubles the EVs you can get from battle but _ don't_  increase the total EVs a pokemon can get or the ratio of EV to stat increase, if we assume that Austin's theory is right then the purpose of Pokerus seems to be to accelerate the rate at which a given Pokemon can achieve its specific potential: It doubles the rate it gets faster or stronger but it still has the same upper limit and investing time limits how good you can get at other things.

So, it's possible that our hypothetical Megacorp might have _tried_ to use Modified Pokerus to just... Skip the process. Minimize the need for training. In-game terms, just... Make the Pokemon have perfect IV and EV for every stat, to use the in-game terminology

Whether that's how it would work out or not is a different question.

There's also the idea that since Pokerus can infect just about anything it seems, rather than improving it as is, it's used in the creation of Hybrids and enhanciles as a vessel for genetic modifications.

"This is Pokerus DE-RTT-1, which is used as a vessel for genetic material and enzymes that, in a process similar to CRISPR, introduces genes from Ditto, Eevee, and Ratata into the subject's own genome. By itself, this has a negligible effect on the subject, but by using this device, which fires a concentrated beam of energy that matches the aggregated radiation signatures of all known Evolution Stones, on the subject it temporarily activates the Ditto and Eevee genes implanted in the test subject, causing a metamorphosis that is halfway between a permanent use of the transformability and Pokemon evolution, resulting in the permanent activation and interpretation of the Subject's Ratata genes. One test subject has even evolved from a Ratata-Human Hybrid to a Raticate-Human Hybrid. While still developmental, we've created strains of Pokerus DE for many different Pokemon species that come in a variety of means of hybridization from minor cosmetic changes to full transformation into a pokemon. We're expecting a major market in both the military and among Pokemaniacs and other Otaku."

"This is Pokerus RB-5, splicing the subject with traits from Beldum and Rotom, which allows their bodies to properly synergize with the techno-organic prosthetics we've developed based on various 'living object' Pokemon. Useful for both medical use and, well, the military. Please don't ask about Pokerus RB-1 through RB-4"

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Ok, I found these interesting Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee Tier List. I found it intriguing this Tier List is very accurate.  :Smile: 

https://rankedboost.com/pokemon-lets-go/best-pokemon/

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

How could a list like that not be accurate though? They're just listing them by actual ingame stats. (Rather than say giving a judgement of how good a pokémon is in use based on stats, typing, moves and its interactions with other pokémon (place in the metagame) combined.)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> How could a list like that not be accurate though? They're just listing them by actual in-game stats. (Rather than say giving a judgment of how good a pokémon is in use based on stats, typing, moves, and its interactions with other pokémon (place in the metagame) combined.)


I didn't say that this tier list wasn't accurate and I'm pretty there is another tier list out there besides this one.  :Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

So with the stimulus check I was planning to either get a new PC or console.
Then I found out demand and the chip shortage meant everything was out of stock.

Then I thought back and remembered that I liked collecting pokemon cards more than playing them, kind of a stamp/coin thing.
And I mean there can't be a massive shortage of pokemon cards right?


WHAT HAPPENED?

----------


## boj0

YouTube/Twitch influencers combined the popularity of unboxing with the popularity of Pokémon; apparently when people remembered that some old cards are worth money that caused a giant boom in tcg speculation. I've heard second-hand that some retailers are limiting how many packs people can buy.

----------


## MCerberus

> YouTube/Twitch influencers combined the popularity of unboxing with the popularity of Pokémon; apparently when people remembered that some old cards are worth money that caused a giant boom in tcg speculation. I've heard second-hand that some retailers are limiting how many packs people can buy.


That's really weird because in the, hold on a second *gets old man cane*, in the 90s we never had these problems. You could buy booster packs at news stands. And deck sets in CD shops. *shakes cane at youtube*

----------


## Saambell

It also doesn't help that with all of whats happening health wise globally, it really shook up a lot of factories abilities to maintain production. So a drop in production, combined with a boost in demand, lead to a shortage. 

The increase in demand might have also happened due to disillusionment with the most recent set of games, along with the poorly showing new upcoming games, so people moved on to the card game, which has been building in popularity for a long while now. Or at least, been consistently number 3 in terms of top card games behind yugioh and magic for a good while now, if not fighting yugioh for number 2.

----------


## MCerberus

Alright, vstock is *out of bulk cards.*
When it gets that low I think we're seeing a bubble

----------


## Rater202

I hope no one minds if I post this here.

*The Somar Region*

Occupying an almost archipelago of two large islands with four smaller islands between them, the Somar Region is a mini region with very few unique native Pokemon species. However, over the centuries many pokemon from many other regions have migrated there and settled permanently or semipermeable, giving the region a great deal of diversity in wild pokemon.

The Somar region for decades suffered from severe poverty but approximately thirty years ago the at the time small "Pokemon Bio-Organic Research and Innovation Incorporated," or "PoBORI Inc" moved their main operations there. PoBORI Inc's mission statement? "Humanely and ethically studying the biology of pokemon and the flora that have evolved alongside them, discover the biomechanical and bio-physical mechanics behind them, and use them to create technology to improve the lives of both man and pokemon."

Their first major success was using the Somar Region's native, unique Apricorn species, one heartier than most other varieties, for crossbreeding experiments with other species. By doing this, PoBORI Inc was able to mass manufacture Pokeballs far more cheeply than many competitors. While PoBORI Inc has not been able to displace Silph Co's monopoly in the major regions, they've been able to make a killing in smaller markets and by selling certain specialty balls at more affordable prices.

This fortune was not only used to fund further research, it was invested into various parts of the Somar Region, building up prosperity for its people and investing in, emerging with, or sometimes, if necessary, buying out struggling local businesses.

No, the eight major cities of the region sprawl and bustle, riding around in their PoBORI Inc made room cars, browsing the internet, and doing business on PoBori Inc brand Rotomphones, Pokemon Centers using PoBORI Inc medicines and equipment to save the lives of the beloved Pokemon companions of the Somar Regions happy, prosperous citizens who live happy, stress-free lives thanks to PoBORI Inc Lobbyists influencing the Region's governments to keep cost of living low and all of the high paying PoBORI Inc jobs(with great benefits!) and cheap, comprehensive education that can be easily obtained from any of a number of affordable PoBORI Inc sponsored schools.

Somarian people are enteretained by turmenents, exhibition matches, and Leauge Battles held in grand PoBORI Inc sponsored stadiums, and League trainers train, battle, and test their might in PoBORI Inc sponsored Gyms(Located in All Major Cities!)

CEO Ace Helix, despite his aged appearance, projects a friendly and approachable demeanor and, when not at the office, is an avid Pokemon Battler... In fact, he's won the League Championship fair and square more than once and currently holds the position.

Other than occasional easily quelled terrorist actions by Team Greens, a bunch of ineffectual eco-terrorist whackjobs who claim with no proof think that PoBORI Inc is performing inhuman experiments on Humans and Pokemon. Things are great. But really, very few people ever get hurt and Team Greens is easily delt with by the authorities.

All is well in the PoBORI... I mean, Somar region.*Spoiler: Or is it?*
Show

No, no it's not.

PoBORI Inc's CEO and Board of Directors, as well as all major investors, are motivated entirely on Greed and lining their own pockets.

They didn't come to Somar to be generous, but because the laws in the Somar Region in regards to certain kinds of... Research, aren't as strict as in other regions.

Nobody talks about how trainers sometimes go missing in the caves between Hemoglo City and Mount Cranium, for example.

All of kind, generous, 'sharing the wealth' actions they've taken was to get the people on their side as they slowly infiltrated, subverted, and took over every aspect of Somarian society. PoBORI Inc is the government, they are the league, they are the police, the firemen, the schools, the hospitals...

PoBORI Inc, over the last few decades, has _become_ the Somar Region.

Only the upper-crust of the upper-crust know just how extensive their control is, but the Company has ways of making sure only the loyal or the buyable make it to any position of real power.

The Leadership of Team Greens consists entirely of PoBORI Inc paramilitary agents who find and radicalize anyone with valid complaints against the company in order to both keep control over potential dissenters and to discredit anyone who tries to expose their crimes.

The Elite Four all hold undying Loyalty to Ace Helix and the company, and the Gym Leaders

...Though, one has to wonder how loyal some of the Gym Leaders knew what was being done in the secret laboratory in the heart of Osteo forest. Something that Ace Helix thinks will pave the way for the transition from dominating Somar to ruling the World.

There are _so many_ loopholes regarding the international regulations on the use of Pokemon in military after all. And very few regulations on the use of humans.


The Archipelago that makes up the Somar Region consists of Renal Island to the West, Respir Island to the East, named for their shapes, and between them Northwest Phlemg Island, Notheast Chole Island, Southeast Melaina, and Southwest Blood Island.

Collectively, the Islands between Renal Island and Respir Islands are called the Islands of Good Humor.

At the Northernmost section of Renal Island, there is a forest of bone-white barked trees that dominates as far as the eyes can see, all the way out to the cliffs that make up the northern shore. This is Osteo Forest, and entrance to it is strictly regulated due to the presence of many dangerous Pokemon that live in the area... Particularly some unusually aggressive Regional Variant Phanttumps and Trevenant.

As an aside, most dusk stones in the region are found in Osteo Forest by carefully trained extraction teams employed by PoBORI Inc.*Spoiler: Details on Regional Phanttump*
Show

Bark is White, they're able to learn dark type moves, particularly dark pulse, and a few minor poison type moves. They evolve from Dusk Stones instead of trade, creating a Dark/Grass Type Trevenant


South of Osteo Forest is Spinabase City, where most trainers taking the league challenge try to earn their first badge. A relatively small city, Spinabase's Gym Leader, Skelo, is friendly and specializes in common normal types, stating his personal belief that anyone and anything can be great with adequate care. hard work, and maybe a hand up. Many people who now work in the Gym started out as trainers who came to challenge him, lost for one reason or another, but decided to stay around because his kind words of encouragement made them feel like they could do more good working with him that going off on their own... This was, of course, not what he meant, but he won't turn down anyone who wants to join his Gym without a very good reason.

Further south are vast plaines and rolling hills dotted with small towns and ilges until one makes it the southern shores of the kidney-shaped isle, where one finds a beach. Follow the path east and you'll run into Adrenal Town, home to another Gym and a free Ferry Service to Blood Island.

Blood Island's only major city is Lymphocyte Town, which hosts a Gym, though to the far north one may find a small town infamous in the region for "the Duke," an old man who seems refuses to die. A surfer in his youth, in his old age he claims that he can teach anyone or anything how to easily traverse the seas on body or bored... Though most dismiss him both for his ridiculous claims ("My Charizard knows surf!") and his open distrust of PoBORI Inc

Phlegm Island is similar, though almost a mirror image, one large town and one small settlement in reversed positions, and the pattern is repeated on Chole Island and Melania Island.

Strong natural currents and the presence of Whirlpools around the northern end of Lungshaped Respir Island direct all travelers coming by see to the Southernmost section of the Island, a beach somewhat Rockeier than one on Southern Renal Island, which leads up into plains until arrives in the Twin Cities of Oxy City and Hemoglo City. Despite being right across the Pulmonary River from each other and built along similar plans, and despite being dependant on each other due to one city holding the factories that produce products the other needs, the citizens of each city hate each other with a passion each claiming that the other's Gym draws attention away from it's own.

North of the city are a series of small mountains that are difficult to navigate on foot. Most people take the Tram north to Cerebellum City, home of both The Elite Four and PoBORI Inc headquarters, but it's tradition for trainers taking the League challenge to walk or bike through a series of tunnels that start just outside of Hemoglo City and take the trainer directly to Mount Cranium, a large but more navigatable mountain that has a trail that leads to Cerebellum City.

Legend Has it that a trio of Rare and Powerful Pokemon make their homes in the tree caves near the rounded peak of Mount Cranium, which from a distance make the impression of a small skull at the top of the mountain, but everyone who has ever tried to find them ha either returned empty-handed or been lost in a mountaineering accident, leading to the paths towards the peak being chained off.

So obviously this is a setting for that Biopunk/Cyberpunk idea I've been talking about on and off.

Just want to have it written down somewhere.

Since it's leaning more towards biopunk than cyberpunk, I went with biology-themed names.

I've got the characters with major roles in a hypothetical game down, but I've got a few more towns to name and some details to flesh out.

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## Lord Raziere

You should probably put that in a google doc or an openoffice doc, I personally take all my notes in openoffice, but if you want to share, its best you put it in a google doc. 

all I got is various permutations of my idea for the pokerus on that front.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

Whee, I got to level 40 today in Pokémon Go!

...I can already tell that Catch 200 Pokémon in a day notification is going to be irritating.  :Small Annoyed:

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## MCerberus

What kind of tone are you going for in this setting?
It looks good if you're trying to keep it light, but at times you're reaching out for darker stuff.

If that's the case, you may want to change the ecological status quo. Species being introduced constantly could result in just waves of invasive species displacing the last ones. This would make wildlands and farming always at least a little on edge.

Also I have some unused plans for a biotech-related themed team and some of the stuff gets like... profoundly messed up. Like the plotline I was planning was having them artificially accelerate the growth and mind control of a stolen adolescent Moltres (comics canon, the primes have kids) in order to take down the league. So even when stopped, you still have a VERY mad parent,who happens to be *checks note* the flame incarnate god of summer whose wrath will upset the delicate balance and destroy the world. Then we have restarting the Mew program (cloning never ends well).

Also for names, remember one of the cool things about -punk settings is the collision between mythology and the future. So team green can have ranks like "Cyclops", "Six-Arms", etc (in this case progeny of Gaia). The populace may refer to trainers as Errants or Gladiators. That kind of fun stuff.

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## Rater202

> What kind of tone are you going for in this setting?
> It looks good if you're trying to keep it light, but at times you're reaching out for darker stuff.


Similar to canon, but focused differently.

Pokemon looks very light and family-friendly not the surface but get really fricking dark if you know where to look.

Little darker since it is a 'Punk' tone with the "Evil Megacorp controls the area and does seriously messed up things" but the game to start with is at the start of the tone where body mods are... Other than maybe very minor stuff, top-secret and experimental.

Like, people with high-quality prosthetics or wealthy pokefantatics having gotten cosmetic mutations from Pokemon DNA(not unlike the "Splicing Phenomena" from Batman Beyond, only the gang running it and other criminals have actual powers from being spliced with animal DNA, with other people it's just changing their eyes) both probably exist and a relatively common in the Region, but major modifications are either top-secret or only just starting to happen.

If the game lasts long enough I imagine it would eventually start moving more towards Post-Cyberpunk...

But there would be dark moments, yes. There's a reason why the forest that all the top-secret experiments are being done in is full of a particularly vengeful variant of a Pokemon that's rumored in legends to be the ghost of a child who died in the forest.




> If that's the case, you may want to change the ecological status quo. Species being introduced constantly could result in just waves of invasive species displacing the last ones. This would make wildlands and farming always at least a little on edge.


I was thinking less constant introduction and more "kind of like how you can find Kanto or Jhoto native species in every region" type thing but to extremes. Pokemon from other regions just kind of ended up there over time for various reasons so the ecosystem is kind of a hodgepodge.

Not exactly realistic, but since this is meant for Freeform Roleplay I don't want to limit people's options if I ever actually do this.




> Also I have some unused plans for a biotech-related themed team and some of the stuff gets like... profoundly messed up. Like the plotline I was planning was having them artificially accelerate the growth and mind control of a stolen adolescent Moltres (comics canon, the primes have kids) in order to take down the league. So even when stopped, you still have a VERY mad parent,who happens to be *checks note* the flame incarnate god of summer whose wrath will upset the delicate balance and destroy the world. Then we have to restart the Mew program (cloning never ends well).


I was considering having Ace Helix have a Type Null in his team and the idea that there's _a_ Mewtwo in the region(possibly a Regional Variant Mewtwo since SwSh established Regional Variant Legendaries exist) makes sense, but...

Honestly, I'm leaning more towards "Artificial Hybrids, both gestated and spliced, Combat Capable Cybernetics and Bionics derived from studying steel types and living object Pokemon, Detective Pikachu situations, and literal cases of someone being physically fused with a Pokemon... Or part of one."



> Also for names, remember one of the cool things about -punk settings is the collision between mythology and the future. So team green can have ranks like "Cyclops", "Six-Arms", etc (in this case progeny of Gaia). The populace may refer to trainers as Errants or Gladiators. That kind of fun stuff.


This is good though.

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## Lord Raziere

> Pokemon looks very light and family-friendly not the surface but get really fricking dark if you know where to look.


*kinda-sorta hand motion*

Thats overstating it a little.

honestly you can "find" darkness in anything light if you look hard enough. because light stories to make things light is all about ignoring the implications of this or that so as to focus on the light stuff. often when those implications are explored the darkness writes itself. often the darkness people find are them drawing their own conclusions from those implications and on some level wanting it to be darker. 

but taking a few examples and drawing a few conclusions not supported by the source itself doesn't really make a thing dark. 

(this isn't me speaking out against the setting or being unwilling to play or anything, I'm just pointing things out for the sake of pointing things out because I don't believe what you said is the full truth, in case you were wondering)

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## MCerberus

> *kinda-sorta hand motion*
> 
> Thats overstating it a little.
> 
> honestly you can "find" darkness in anything light if you look hard enough. because light stories to make things light is all about ignoring the implications of this or that so as to focus on the light stuff. often when those implications are explored the darkness writes itself. often the darkness people find are them drawing their own conclusions from those implications and on some level wanting it to be darker. 
> 
> but taking a few examples and drawing a few conclusions not supported by the source itself doesn't really make a thing dark. 
> 
> (this isn't me speaking out against the setting or being unwilling to play or anything, I'm just pointing things out for the sake of pointing things out because I don't believe what you said is the full truth, in case you were wondering)


I'm just checking, but we all remember the crypto-fascists that used slave labor to build a giant castle used a weapon of mass destruction on a city center, right?

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## Lord Raziere

> I'm just checking, but we all remember the crypto-fascists that used slave labor to build a giant castle used a weapon of mass destruction on a city center, right?


.....I think your talking about BW2 team plasma? also momentary crises where things look bad but no one is really harmed and the villain is foiled in a short amount of time isn't that dark. but then again I think you might be talking BW2, and I only placed BW. I skipped those because I thought they'd just be a copy-paste of BW. 

The Plasma Frigate isn't dark, its just a zany nonsensical supervillain plan. no matter how much you insist that it never gets resolved, if probably would be easily reversed if it was ever revisited. its pokemon, I highly doubt the darkness of it, even if its not reversed, that just means it gets done offscreen. especially if its not dwelled on.

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## Emmerlaus

If you want to go dark in Pokémon, just look at some of the Pokédex entries lol

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## MCerberus

> .....I think your talking about BW2 team plasma? also momentary crises where things look bad but no one is really harmed and the villain is foiled in a short amount of time isn't that dark. but then again I think you might be talking BW2, and I only placed BW. I skipped those because I thought they'd just be a copy-paste of BW. 
> 
> The Plasma Frigate isn't dark, its just a zany nonsensical supervillain plan. no matter how much you insist that it never gets resolved, if probably would be easily reversed if it was ever revisited. its pokemon, I highly doubt the darkness of it, even if its not reversed, that just means it gets done offscreen. especially if its not dwelled on.


Even if you pull a "everyone thawed out and was fine" the castle is actually something pretty messed up. These were the released partner pokemon of people who believed N and they were explicit about working them to death.

But you are right in that most of the stuff is letting your imagination run with the concepts. The Crown Tundra seems to be some kind of vault where something or someone is keeping the apocalypse, for example. The musketeers... are not friendly, and just what does it entail being the avatar of life or death when we knew one if not both have been used as a doomsday device.

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## Lord Raziere

> If you want to go dark in Pokémon, just look at some of the Pokédex entries lol


do you say the same for bad campfire stories and Halloween tales? because that is all they amount to. as a spooky as holding up a white sheet with two holes in it and going "OoOoOoOooOoOOoOoOoOoOoOoOoo...."

they're nothing but the pokemon versions of collections of old folk tales to scare children so they behave. pokemonverse scientists would collect old myths as well, and they clearly aren't true given how they live in peace with pokemon.

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## Rater202

Gotta say though, I do love me those "IIf Pokedex Entries were literal" vids from Dorkly.

Making jokes about how dark or messed up some of those things are is one thing, but I'm particularly amused by episode 29

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## Lord Raziere

see, things like this is why I headcanon that normal animals still exist and somehow are eaten by both humans and pokemon, or else you get a world like that, which doesn't make sense with how pokemon is supposed to work.

Edit: though you might want to check out "Pokemon battle royale" videos by Lockstin and the something about guy. they basically take the literal-ness of the entires then put into pokemon fighting each other until one is left, they're pretty good.

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## Rater202

> see, things like this is why I headcanon that normal animals still exist and somehow are eaten by both humans and pokemon, or else you get a world like that, which doesn't make sense with how pokemon is supposed to work.


There's a reason why I posted in the headcanon thread about synthetic meat and vegan alternatives becoming increasingly popular in the Pokemon world with each passing year"

Becuase normal animals are only ever referenced in the anime, and even then only briefly, and the games explicitly state that pokemon are eaten a couple of times.

Probably something else that PoBORI Inc is working on. "Cruelty-Free Cultured Slowpoke Tails" and mass-produced berry-based protein bars are probably available in every Pokemart.

Even if we just handwave away the food issue of o u can cheaply mass produce food in a sustainable manner in a way that doesn't unduly hurt anything that's basically a license to print money indefintly.

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## MCerberus

> do you say the same for bad campfire stories and Halloween tales? because that is all they amount to. as a spooky as holding up a white sheet with two holes in it and going "OoOoOoOooOoOOoOoOoOoOoOoOoo...."
> 
> they're nothing but the pokemon versions of collections of old folk tales to scare children so they behave. pokemonverse scientists would collect old myths as well, and they clearly aren't true given how they live in peace with pokemon.


I like the idea that the pokedex just spits out random pieces of trivia and folklore to reward the kids collecting data while performing complex genetic mapping or some other sci-fi purpose.

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## Bartmanhomer

I wonder how good Meltan and Melmetal are in competitive play? I know that Melmetal is stronger than Meltan because Melmetal stats are very good. By judging the stats it definitely overused or maybe uber tier.

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## Techwarrior

Heya. I was wondering how interested the community here is in discussion of nuzlockes of older gen games? I'm specifically doing Emerald right now but am working my way through the series to refamiliarize myself with the franchise.

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## Bartmanhomer

I really can't wait for Generation 9 next year.  :Smile:

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## Rising Phoenix

I got pokemon shield on a whim a few days ago...I was not expecting to find the game very enjoyable...

Anyway I am working on my Galarian Dex. I am at 371 mons... Would anyone be willing to help me complete it? Don't have much to offer in return but happy to try fulfill any basic requests (I haven't started any breeding projects). 

Cheers

RP.

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## Lvl 2 Expert

> Heya. I was wondering how interested the community here is in discussion of nuzlockes of older gen games? I'm specifically doing Emerald right now but am working my way through the series to refamiliarize myself with the franchise.


Yeah, sure. Go for it. What were you going to post? Just some notes and remarks on stuff you notice while playing?

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## Rater202

I'm not the only one who keeps forgetting that Tangela exists, am I?

Unrelated: Since Rotom was introduced in Diamond and Pearl I kind of hope that the remakes of those introduce more Rotom formed.

I have the mental image of a jackhammer that becomes Ground Type that won't leave me alone.

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## Rising Phoenix

Managed to nab a shiny HA clefairy today...Unfortunately I missed on a pansimian and a gothitelle...both of which I need for the dex... Only 21 to go to 400...

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## Mark Hall

We're all agreed that people who put dross down in a Gym are the absolute worst, right? A 23 Poochyena, your Blueness? Why are you GIVING this gym to Red or Yellow?

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## MCerberus

> We're all agreed that people who put dross down in a Gym are the absolute worst, right? A 23 Poochyena, your Blueness? Why are you GIVING this gym to Red or Yellow?


That's why you have physical security at any and all gym locations *reveals team Mystic Evolve or Die tat*

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> We're all agreed that people who put dross down in a Gym are the absolute worst, right? A 23 Poochyena, your Blueness? Why are you GIVING this gym to Red or Yellow?


I went for a walk today and ran into some of these in the Gyms I cleared out. The thing with the lower-level Pokémon is that you still have to battle them three times to boot them out at full HP.  :Small Mad:  And the lower-level a Pokémon is the slower they lose health so they can still be at or near full HP a day later, in contrast to the 3000+ CP behemoth next to it. I spend more time transitioning between Pokémon then I do actually fighting them.

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## RayGallade

I decided to introduce my three-year-old to Pokémon Sword since she loves helping to play Pokémon Go with my parents whenever she visits them.

I'm letting her play as I read all the text to her. She sometimes gets too excited with the text for me to read it all, but so far she and I are having a blast.

*Spoiler: Summary of the first 90 minutes*
Show

She chose Sobble as her starter and named it Mommy. She knew my wife had wanted it as her starter.
She is very concerned for Grookey since she hasn't seen it since picking out her starter.
She loves Wooloo and wants to say hi to every one that she sees. She was somewhat upset she couldn't go say hi to the ones in the background.
Apparently Rookidee, Blipbug, and Grubbin are too scary to catch or fight since she runs away from each one.
As soon as she saw Yamper, she told me she loved it and wanted one.
Current party:
Mommy the Sobble
6666666iiioo the Caterpie
xxxxxxxxxxxx the Wooloo.

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## Emmerlaus

> I decided to introduce my three-year-old to Pokémon Sword since she loves helping to play Pokémon Go with my parents whenever she visits them.
> 
> I'm letting her play as I read all the text to her. She sometimes gets too excited with the text for me to read it all, but so far she and I are having a blast.
> 
> *Spoiler: Summary of the first 90 minutes*
> Show
> 
> She chose Sobble as her starter and named it Mommy. She knew my wife had wanted it as her starter.
> She is very concerned for Grookey since she hasn't seen it since picking out her starter.
> ...


That is adorable! Can't wait to hear more about her adventures lol  :Small Big Grin:

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> That is adorable! Can't wait to hear more about her adventures lol


+1 this!  :Small Smile:

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## Bartmanhomer

> I decided to introduce my three-year-old to Pokémon Sword since she loves helping to play Pokémon Go with my parents whenever she visits them.
> 
> I'm letting her play as I read all the text to her. She sometimes gets too excited with the text for me to read it all, but so far she and I are having a blast.
> 
> *Spoiler: Summary of the first 90 minutes*
> Show
> 
> She chose Sobble as her starter and named it Mommy. She knew my wife had wanted it as her starter.
> She is very concerned for Grookey since she hasn't seen it since picking out her starter.
> ...


Awww. That's cute.  :Smile:

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## MCerberus

Scary bugs and birds? Wooloo will stop them
*Spoiler*
Show

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## Bartmanhomer

I just discovered a long time ago that Mr. Mine got two genders (a male and a female Mr. Mime) I find it very interested because I always thought that Mr. Mime was only a male Pokemon since it has the name Mr. Which I assume was a male Pokemon.  :Smile:

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## GearsX

If anyone is interested in a free to play pokemon rpg on either pc or android check out Pokemon Revolution Online, its pretty great.

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## RayGallade

Ready for another tale of a toddler's journey through Galar?

*Spoiler: I think we are at 4 hours? Nope, 6:46 apparently*
Show

Since my first update, we have made it past Wedgehurst. She spent about a half-hour running back to Route 1 and Postwick to see more Wooloo and say bye to her Mum.
The following Pokémon were all caught: Yamper, Yamper, Chewtle, Wooloo (2). All except one Yamper have been named xxxxxxxxxxxx.
Whenever she battles another trainer, she gets worried after beating their Pokémon. The highlight quote for this is "Lauren's sad when I take her Pokémon away."
Discovering the small ledges was a great treat. "I jumped? Whee! That's fun!"
We then take a gap between me playing with her and my wife being the reader. Unfortunately, I don't have many notes here, nor have played it myself yet to know exactly what I missed. All I know is she ended up in Motostoke, she managed to beat a level 26 Onix with Mommy the Sobble while the whole party was levels 9-11, and was swept by a wild level 16 Roselia.
The Wild Area is a hoot to her. She has caught all sorts of Pokémon, mostly naming them xxxxxxxxxxxx, though there is a Goldeen named "   úúúúúúúú" in there.
We've since managed to get back to Motostoke and advanced the story. She thinks Team Yell is scary, but doesn't want them to be sad when she beats their Pokémon. We are back to running around the Wild Area where she has discovered Pokémon Camp. I suspect there will be hours of fun throwing the ball for her Pokémon, talking to them over and over and over and over again, and whistling for them.

Current Party:
Sobble "Mommy", level 15
Butterfree, "6666iiiiiioooo", level 11
Tympole, "xxxxxxxxxxxx", level 14 {Holding a potion, fainted}
Wooloo, "xxxxxxxxxxxx", level 11 {Holding a potion, fainted}
Yamper, level 12
Goldeen, "   úúúúúúúú", level 12.


Hope you all enjoy these updates. I tend to write them down as I see something happen, so they may come off as a stream of consciousness.

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## Emmerlaus

> Ready for another tale of a toddler's journey through Galar?
> 
> Hope you all enjoy these updates. I tend to write them down as I see something happen, so they may come off as a stream of consciousness.


Thank you for the update!  :Small Smile:

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> Discovering the small ledges was a great treat. "I jumped? Whee! That's fun!"


*loud squeeing* _So adorable!_  :Small Smile:  Glad to hear your little one is having fun!

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## MCerberus

You daughter may actually be a pokemon protagonist.

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## Mark Hall

*yes!*


three nice curveball throws in a row! Suck it,  buizel!

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## MCerberus

So the comic shop is having a casual night for a new TCG expansion launch, and I thought I'd actually play. Except I have a set of sleeves that don't have a deck and I have to make a decision:

Do I actually put good cards that in it 
Or use Mr. Rime and others to create a pointless gimmick deck where I throw balls at people?

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> *yes!*
> 
> 
> three nice curveball throws in a row! Suck it,  buizel!


Congrats!  :Small Smile:  Glad to hear youre getting the hang of it. And just in time for Gible Community Day tomorrow, too!

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## boj0

> Or use Mr. Rime and others to create a pointless gimmick deck where I throw balls at people?


As someone who hasn't played the TCG in 20 years, this gets my vote

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## MCerberus

> As someone who hasn't played the TCG in 20 years, this gets my vote


Would you like me to elaborate or is it more fun to just let your brain run off with the concept?

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## Bartmanhomer

I wish there was a Mega Evolution for Arceus. That will be very cool and awesome for Arceus to have a Mega Evolution Form.  :Smile:

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## boj0

> Would you like me to elaborate or is it more fun to just let your brain run off with the concept?


100% enjoy it based on the description you gave, and my own brain imagining a trainer throwing a ball during a match, "Hey! No stealing Pokemon!", "I'm not aiming for your Pokemon."

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## Fable Wright

> I wish there was a Mega Evolution for Arceus. That will be very cool and awesome for Arceus to have a Mega Evolution Form.


Very unlikely. That requires Arceus to be catchable in-game (which seems unlikely for anything but a DPP reboot) and mega-evolutions to be brought back, when they're pretty clearly phasing them out.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Very unlikely. That requires Arceus to be catchable in-game (which seems unlikely for anything but a DPP reboot) and mega-evolutions to be brought back when they're pretty clearly phasing them out.


I wish it was possible in my eyes.  :Frown:

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## RayGallade

No gameplay updates today, but here are some highlights of my daughter's Pokémon nicknames. She apparently learned you can use more than one symbol after watching my wife play for a few hours and name her own Pokémon.


*Spoiler: Nicknames Update*
Show


'I8iu6ůö óβ the Skwovet
85trrerew the Carkol
1234 the Minccino
qqwwwttttyyy the Electrike
Xbnmkl.??!!! the Electrike
zxsdfgjki83 the Gossifleur

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> No gameplay updates today, but here are some highlights of my daughter's Pokémon nicknames. She apparently learned you can use more than one symbol after watching my wife play for a few hours and name her own Pokémon.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler: Nicknames Update*
> Show
> 
> 
> 'I8iu6ůö óβ the Skwovet
> 85trrerew the Carkol
> ...


...Its been a long time since Ive played the handheld Pokemon games; I only recognize two of those species.  :Small Red Face:  *Googles* Steam Engine looks fun though!

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## Rater202

If I said that I thought I had a decent enough outline for a "starting" adventure for the Pokemon Bio/Cyberpunk adventure would anyone here be interested?

Becuase after most of my attempts to start games either died or never got off the ground, I don't wanna start anything if I don't have a couple of dedicated players.

right now, in terms of player options, I'm thinking "Hybrids", which were the starting idea, "fusions" who are a sitch like Detective Pikachu, a human and a pokemon literally fused to create a pokemon with a human mind, "Revives" who are humans who were dead but then were brought back to life with Pokemon bod parts grafted to them using fossil revival technology(so they're kind of Frankentienian) and "Enhanced" who are cyborgs with implants and prosthetics made by retroneigneering the biology of steel-type pokemon, particularly the Beldam-Metagross line, and Rotoms to create living metal that perfectly synched to the subject's nervous system

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> If I said that I thought I had a decent enough outline for a "starting" adventure for the Pokemon Bio/Cyberpunk adventure would anyone here be interested?


What system? Id be willing to give it a shot, but if its not a super simple system youd have to deal with me constantly asking How does this work? Can I do this? Did I do that right? That doesnt make any sense, why doesnt it do X instead?

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## Rater202

> What system? Id be willing to give it a shot, but if its not a super simple system youd have to deal with me constantly asking How does this work? Can I do this? Did I do that right? That doesnt make any sense, why doesnt it do X instead?


Freeform: Everything is resolved by mutual agreement and fiat, with what happens to your characters or setting elements you introduce being decided by you, within reason.

(For example, if you've previously declared that your character is asleep, then "I wake up and instinctively jerk to the right in response to the commotion" is a valid response to someone attacking your sleeping character, but unless your character is an Abra "I am fully aware of the situation and teleport out of the way of the attack" is not)

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## danzibr

> We're all agreed that people who put dross down in a Gym are the absolute worst, right? A 23 Poochyena, your Blueness? Why are you GIVING this gym to Red or Yellow?


I dont concur. Depends greatly on where you live. In my parts, people are kind enough to not give you the boot until 8 hours.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> If I said that I thought I had a decent enough outline for a "starting" adventure for the Pokemon Bio/Cyberpunk adventure would anyone here be interested?
> 
> Becuase after most of my attempts to start games either died or never got off the ground, I don't wanna start anything if I don't have a couple of dedicated players.
> 
> right now, in terms of player options, I'm thinking "Hybrids", which were the starting idea, "fusions" who are a sitch like Detective Pikachu, a human and a pokemon literally fused to create a pokemon with a human mind, "Revives" who are humans who were dead but then were brought back to life with Pokemon bod parts grafted to them using fossil revival technology(so they're kind of Frankentienian) and "Enhanced" who are cyborgs with implants and prosthetics made by retroneigneering the biology of steel-type pokemon, particularly the Beldam-Metagross line, and Rotoms to create living metal that perfectly synched to the subject's nervous system


I mean I've got my rocket character and art of various possible pokemon forms ready to go, and I can probably make a Andrew Ryan expy as a corporate villain, scientist pokemaniac transhumanists who were the ones who made the pokemon/human hybrid thing and were just going along with the corporations demands to get what they want, all sorts of ideas like that we can do. I'll probably be focused on the hybrid parts the most though.

----------


## Rater202

Okay, I've got a thread for the game idea.

If anyone's interested.

----------


## MCerberus

So I found the tournament I went to was different than what I was expecting, and the pokemon company found a way to make a compelling draft-like format they can make bank from.

You buy a 'battle box' which contains some key evolutionary lines and a few booster packs, and you build a deck from that. Buy-in is the cost of the box and a little something for the shop to cover prizes. Went 2-1, so I got some extra booster packs for the expansion that gets released next week.

edit - I don't think I'm in the brainspace to roleplay a -punk setting right now for unspecified stuff, but if it's an ongoing I could see how things shake out.

edit 2- you ever have a weird character concept just pop into your head?

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> edit 2- you ever have a weird character concept just pop into your head?


Yup. He was an adorable little boy who wanted to be a reporter, not a Pokemon trainer, but then a rather headstrong Cubone went and attached herself to him...and quickly drove the DM to stop giving detailed descriptions of the battlefield.

Will you be joining us then?  :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Pikachu may be popular for so many players but its stats isn't powerful. Raichu's stats aren't too bad. I like Pikachu and Raichu but they're are weak in their own merits.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Pikachu may be popular for so many players but its stats isn't powerful. Raichu's stats aren't too bad. I like Pikachu and Raichu but they're are weak in their own merits.


Pikachu is what I call "charismatic megafauna". He's well-liked and well-known, so he drives a lot of attentions.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Pikachu is what I call "charismatic megafauna". He's well-liked and well-known, so he drives a lot of attentions.


Of course, he's well-liked and well-known. Everybody loves that Pokemon.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Of course, he's well-liked and well-known. Everybody loves that Pokemon.


*Kicks Pikachu over the fence, Eevee too.*

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I feel like the stats for certain Pokemon are somewhat unfair for the most part. For example, Mega Rayquaza Physical Attack and Special Attack are 180 and it can obliterate every single Pokemon including Arceus who happens to be the Pokemon Deity get KO by one single hit. Seriously why did Game Freak have to make Mega Rayquaza too overpowered?  :Sigh:

----------


## boj0

> I feel like the stats for certain Pokemon are somewhat unfair for the most part. For example, Mega Rayquaza Physical Attack and Special Attack are 180 and it can obliterate every single Pokemon including Arceus who happens to be the Pokemon Deity get KO by one single hit. Seriously why did Game Freak have to make Mega Rayquaza too overpowered?


To make you, yes you specifically, upset; obviously.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> To make you, yes you specifically, upset; obviously.


Well yes. I'm upset that Mega Rayquaza is too overpowered and it's not even a Pokemon deity. I just wish that Game Freak would nerf Nega Rayquaza's stats and overpowered abilities.  :Annoyed:

----------


## boj0

Bold of you to assume who is and isn't a deity, maybe Ray's application got lost in the mail? 
Regardless Mega Rayquaza _did_ get nerfed, because you can't use Mega Pokemon anymore, so this entire issue has already been resolved.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Bold of you to assume who is and isn't a deity, maybe Ray's application got lost in the mail? 
> Regardless Mega Rayquaza _did_ get nerfed, because you can't use Mega Pokemon anymore, so this entire issue has already been resolved.


Ok. Another Pokemon question: Has anyone ever catches every single Pokemon in every generation literally because to me it's not an easy task to do also I only play Pokemon Generation 1.  :Eek:

----------


## Techwarrior

> Ok. Another Pokemon question: Has anyone ever catches every single Pokemon in every generation literally because to me it's not an easy task to do also I only play Pokemon Generation 1.


Yes these people exist. Also, some people specifically go out of their way to collect full Shiny Dexes

----------


## boj0

> Ok. Another Pokemon question: Has anyone ever catches every single Pokemon in every generation literally because to me it's not an easy task to do also I only play Pokemon Generation 1.


Tons of people have, they even give you in game items for doing it; if anything it's easier now than it was back in the day, you can get event Pokemon as long as you have the internet, trade with almost anyone in the world without leaving your room, and legendary Pokemon are farmable in raids. Easy? No. Doable? Yes.

Also, if you only play Gen 1, why would you care about Rayquaza's stats?

----------


## Rater202

You physically cannot catch every Pokemon. IT's impossible.

Even ignoring Version exclusives, there are some Pokemon that you cannot encounter in the wild under any circumstances. You _have_ to get them by trading with an NPC.

You can _get_ every Pokemon, if you're lucky or can afford to by two things and both versions of the game and manage to get all the event codes, but you can't *Catch* them all.

----------


## boj0

Thank you for the lesson in semantics. I truly feel blessed that the conversation has been enhanced by that post.

----------


## Rater202

Well excuse me fr finding it frustrating that a game tells you to go out to find, befriend, and train up a couple of hundred magical critters but then _makes it physically impossible to find a good number of them_ so that you have to use what in another game would have been an optional mechanic.

Maybe I don't want to capture an animal and shove it in a little ball just so I can trade it to someone else for what I actually want. Maybe I don't want to trade the Pokemon I've been training for twenty levels to some other player just to fill a checkbox.

The Tagline is "gotta catch 'em all" but you physically can't, you _have_ to trade between games and "own two-game boys and two copies of the game" was not the intended way of doing that at first.

Does it really count if someone else caught it for you?

----------


## boj0

Gotta Catch 'Em All was only the English tagline, the original tag in Japanese is "Get Pokemon"; they hardly use the slogan at all anymore, in addition to the diplomas you get never mention catching, only completing the Dex.

----------


## MCerberus

Let's be serious though, how much has "gotta catch em all" been drilled into permanence in your head only and solely because of the pokerap?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Tons of people have, they even give you in-game items for doing it; if anything it's easier now than it was back in the day, you can get event Pokemon as long as you have the internet, trade with almost anyone in the world without leaving your room, and legendary Pokemon are farmable in raids. Easy? No. Doable? Yes.
> 
> Also, if you only play Gen 1, why would you care about Rayquaza's stats?


Good question. It's just something that bugs me about certain Pokemon even if I never play about later versions.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Let's be serious though, how much has "gotta catch em all" been drilled into permanence in your head only and solely because of the pokerap?


At least one hundred and fifty, or more you see, to be a Pokemon Master takes eternity!  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Rater202

> At least one hundred and fifty, or more you see, to be a Pokemon Master takes eternity!


Okay, can we talk about this? Ash Ketchem.

His first ever League, the Indigo Conference, Ash made it to the top 16 out of 256 people. Major accomplishment and he would have made it to the top eight or further if it wasn't for outside interference forcing him to go to his match with a team of unrested and injured Pokemon, putting him at a serious disadvantage and forcing him to rely on his most unreliable pokemon...

...Like, seriously, there better be a huge Asterix next to that, Ritchy, and the guy who beat Ritchy in the record books for that year t's kind of bull-crap the outside interference didn't get the match rescheduled or something. Delay i for 20 minutes so he can take his team to a Pokemon center for crap's sake.

He won the Orange League, was Orange League Champion.

Ash was Top eight in the Jhoto League. Top Eight in Hoen.

Top 4 in Sinnoh, and, again, let's be honest, the guy who became the Champion showed up with an Aeon and the God of Nightmares so that's not a fair fight. Kudos on Tobias for catching them or convincing them to join him but burning them to a tournament and using them against a ten-year-old was hardly sporting. And Ash beat th Darkrai, so... Another asterix.

Top eight to Unova.

Runner up of Kalos.

Alola Champion.

In addition to this, Ash aced two Battle Frontiers, caught and befriended 77 individual pokemon of a collective 95 individual species, and is on friendly terms with multiple legendary pokemon, been the subject of multiple Pokemon Prophecies, and saves the entire world an average of three times per region.

Ash's starter has, in complete seriousness, been referred to a the World's Most Powerful Pikachu... Which considering that it's beaten Legendary Pokemon and destroyed mountains, scans.

And there's probably some other stuff I'm missing.

Conanically, it has not even been a year since he got his starter because he got Pikachu on his tenth birthday and he's still ten.

*What are the Requirements to be a Pokemon Master!?*

Becuase if they are in any way reasonable, he's qualified many times over.

Ash should be world-famous.

Remember when he got to Hoenn and May's little brother recognized him on sight and rattled off Ash's stats? That should be like... Everyone by now.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Okay Rater?

you really need to step back and remember that Status Quo is God in the anime. there is no Watsonian explanation for why Ash can't catch a break and qualify to be a Pokemon Master, which has never been defined. the only explanation is "because Nintendo wants Ash to be their anime mascot to forever be on a journey but never achieve it, so that he can continue to be on a pokemon journey". it doesn't _matter_ what the in-universe explanation is, because it matters about as much all the reasons why Batman can't clean up Gotham for good, because he is intended to always exist in the state of trying to do so eternally and when he succeeds the story ends.

I recommend that you let go of this, there is no answer that will satisfy you if you want this to be in-universe.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Alola Champion.


You mean they _finally_ let the kid win a real, bona fide League Championship?

About time.  :Small Annoyed: 




> Conanically, it has not even been a year since he got his starter because he got Pikachu on his tenth birthday and he's still ten.


This is continuity snarl not fact: Misty remarks on their arrival to Viridian City (the second time, when he got his Earth Badge) that it had been about a year since theyd been there last. The Pikachu short in Spell of the Unown (? I think, might have been Power of One) had a big feast at the end that Ash tells Pikachu is to commemorate the anniversary of when they met. That was when they were still running around Johto so its been longer than that.

Black and White screwing up things like that are why I dropped the anime like a sack of potatoes.  :Small Annoyed: 




> *What are the Requirements to be a Pokemon Master!?*
> 
> Becuase if they are in any way reasonable, he's qualified many times over.
> 
> Ash should be world-famous.
> 
> Remember when he got to Hoenn and May's little brother recognized him on sight and rattled off Ash's stats? That should be like... Everyone by now.


Generally agree with this though; even people who _dont_ follow the various Pokemon Leagues should at least recognize him as hey, its that kid from the news.

----------


## MCerberus

Insane theories about the status quo? Haha it's my time.

I'm going to go with curse Ash has dealt with a lot of ghosts, specifically ones about tragic youths. I think he's trapped eternally ageless and in a kind of personal and professional stasis.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yes these people exist. Also, some people specifically go out of their way to collect full Shiny Dexes


Wow. They have my respect.  :Smile:

----------


## Saambell

It's not like there's anything else to do with the game after you beat the league. You either try to finish the dex, or hunt shinies, or get into online battling. That last one is a rats den of ego, frustration, and jerks. So for the large number of people, its a lot better to just focus on the other things, and since finishing the dex is kind of easy in the last few games, and actually helps hunt shinies, a lot of people turn to those two. Its also a shame that they have basically abandoned any kind of long form storied post game, and its now just built to funnel you into online battles. So when there's basically no end game, and what exists pushes you to a toxic environment, it makes sense to ignore all that and focus on collecting shiny pokemon, and if you are going to do that for any length of time, might as well focus on making a complete pokedex of only shiny pokemon. Cause its by far the saner option.

----------


## boj0

This probably says more about me than anything, but I drastically prefer comp battles to an anemic post-game; the two brothers from Sword/Shield's "story" exist as an exercise in how obnoxious you can make an NPC while still being able to dangle a prize for the player. The more positively received post-games seem to be GSC with Kanto region, which is just more game plus nostalgia, and the Battle Frontier, which is pretty much comp battles against the AI.

At least playing against people is challenging, I guess?

----------


## Saambell

The thing with online comp battles is theres maybe 4 flavors. Random battles through the battlespot, VGC, Showdown, and finding an online battling community. Each has their own issues. Battlespot is filled with hackers. VGC is also filled with hackers, but has the up side of being the official format and prizes are possible if you get far enough into it. Showdown is where the more egotistical and rude players flock to, as it has the bonus of being its own site, so you dont need to pay money to play. And online battling communities sound great, but they are few and rare nowadays, and hinge on the owner of said place not being a bad guy. I was sadly part of one that lasted 10 years, constantly cycling people cause the owner was a egotistical jerk, which ended up being forced to shut down as said owner was outed as, well, something very much not nice. But it left me a bad opinion of those kinds of sites. 

In all, i can very much understand those who dont want to deal with all that and just want to collect cute sparkly critters.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The thing with online comp battles is theres maybe 4 flavors. Random battles through the battlespot, VGC, Showdown, and finding an online battling community. Each has their own issues. Battlespot is filled with hackers. VGC is also filled with hackers, but has the up side of being the official format and prizes are possible if you get far enough into it. Showdown is where the more egotistical and rude players flock to, as it has the bonus of being its own site, so you dont need to pay money to play. And online battling communities sound great, but they are few and rare nowadays, and hinge on the owner of said place not being a bad guy. I was sadly part of one that lasted 10 years, constantly cycling people cause the owner was a egotistical jerk, which ended up being forced to shut down as said owner was outed as, well, something very much not nice. But it left me a bad opinion of those kinds of sites. 
> 
> In all, i can very much understand those who dont want to deal with all that and just want to collect cute sparkly critters.


Oh wow! I didn't know that the Pokemon Online Battles was that bad. I'm glad that you left the toxic site.  :Eek:

----------


## boj0

Eh, if you don't bother with the chat rooms it cuts out a ton of noise, not to mention you can set defaults so you're battles are invite only, hide messages, and turn off nicknames. It's reached a point where you have to go out of your way to engage with people on Showdown. 

When "Salt" compilations were getting big again a few months ago, one creator (Foxly?) was complaining that actually finding people who act aggressively in chat unprompted was the biggest hurdle.

----------


## Qwertystop

> This probably says more about me than anything, but I drastically prefer comp battles to an anemic post-game; the two brothers from Sword/Shield's "story" exist as an exercise in how obnoxious you can make an NPC while still being able to dangle a prize for the player. The more positively received post-games seem to be GSC with Kanto region, which is just more game plus nostalgia, and the Battle Frontier, which is pretty much comp battles against the AI.
> 
> At least playing against people is challenging, I guess?


Battle Tower was basically just competitive battles, but Battle Frontier added in interesting new twists (quality varying) that mostly haven't recurred since, unless maybe you count some of the weirder coliseums in Battle Revolution . And DPPt had, in addition to the Tower or Frontier, a few postgame-only routes and Stark Mountain for a dungeon.

----------


## Emmerlaus

I miss Pokemon Factory, where you were bestow random Pokemon to fight with.  :Small Sigh:

----------


## Rater202

If you didn't know about its evolutionary line, would you believe that Blaziken was supposed to be a chicken?

----------


## Lord Raziere

I dunno, it'd still clearly be a bird though, and english pokemon names are often combinations of animal and elemental words, with blaziken being part "blaze" so whats the "-iken" part? well what bird do we know has those letters? chicken! therefore I could totally believe it, because of its name.

----------


## MCerberus

> If you didn't know about its evolutionary line, would you believe that Blaziken was supposed to be a chicken?


When even Memphis style isn't hot enough.

----------


## boj0

The avian Fighting type that looks like a kind of Japanese chicken bred for fighting? No I don't see it.

----------


## Rater202

> When even Memphis style isn't hot enough.


I already linked the Dorkly video once,

----------


## MCerberus

> I already linked the Dorkly video once,


I am doomed to be chained to the pokememes forever.
Although idea for a sticker: the Sriracha logo but a torchic.

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> If you didn't know about its evolutionary line, would you believe that Blaziken was supposed to be a chicken?


On its own? I'd probably say it was a based off a Secretary Bird. Y'know, with the super snake kicking feet.

----------


## MCerberus

A couple months or so ago: "Aha I like the pictures of the little mons on the cards"
Now: "I'll pick up a box of boosters after the standard format tournament."

I've fallen for the allure of the comic shop again.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

I was a little surprised to see the POGO Gyms have been revamped. There are people in them now! The new animations are much nicer too.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Which is a better Ground-type Pokemon for Pokemon Let's Go: Onix, Marowak or Rhydon?

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> Which is a better Ground-type Pokemon for Pokemon Let's Go: Onix, Marowak or Rhydon?


Generally speaking, probably Marowak, since it doesn't have the additional weaknesses of also being Rock type.

----------


## MCerberus

DYK gaming paid for the translation of a supplemental pokedex  written by the creators and now translated by the guy that translated red/blue. So this has a lot of early lore weirdness. AND IT'S ALL CANON.



*Spoiler*
Show


Alright so modern scientific pokemon study started in enlightenment-era France. FRANCE. Not Kalos. Note that everything seems to have changed at some point. The pokedex is written with language about pokemon 'in the nation'. The pokemon war = global unification war? What does the government look like. 

Also pokeballs drug pokemon into a coma. There's nothing in the pokeball but endless dreamless sleep

----------


## LaZodiac

> AND IT'S ALL CANON.


I contest this. It may have been released in Japan, but given nothing like this has ever come out again, and has no doubt been contradicted quite a number of times... like how there is no Franch, and so on, I think it is safe to call this quasi canon at best.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wish that the Kanto Region Pokemon have more Dragons and ghosts.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Something I observed during GO Fest today: why does Magikarp flop around like a landed fish but Feebas _doesnt?_ Theyre both rather useless until they evolve, they have the same body style, why does Feebas get to look more dignified?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Something I observed during GO Fest today: why does Magikarp flop around like a landed fish but Feebas _doesnt?_ Theyre both rather useless until they evolve, they have the same body style, why does Feebas get to look more dignified?


I don't know. There are so many things in Pokemon that don't make any sense. Such as why Arceus is a Pokemon Deity and Mew isn't even though Mew is the first mythical Pokemon in the first generation.

----------


## Fable Wright

> Something I observed during GO Fest today: why does Magikarp flop around like a landed fish but Feebas _doesnt?_ Theyre both rather useless until they evolve, they have the same body style, why does Feebas get to look more dignified?


The same reason wailord and wailmer don't look like beached whales, and tentacools still have their shape: It's a problem with _Magikarp,_ not the other fish. I think it's a defense mechanismif they look too pathetic to bully, then the humans leave them alone, right?

----------


## Mark Hall

> Something I observed during GO Fest today: why does Magikarp flop around like a landed fish but Feebas _doesnt?_ Theyre both rather useless until they evolve, they have the same body style, why does Feebas get to look more dignified?


I am so goddamned close to being able to evolve Flopsie, my Magikarp companion. SO. DAMN. CLOSE.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> I am so goddamned close to being able to evolve Flopsie, my Magikarp companion. SO. DAMN. CLOSE.


Quick question: do you have the quest 'A Mythical Discovery' active? Because if so, wait on evolving Flopsie once you get the candies, because one of the steps of the quest requires you to evolve Magikarp. (No one warned me when I started, so I ended up having to evolve a _second_ Magikarp.  :Small Annoyed: )

But as far as getting candies in the first place, if you've already got Flopsie set as your Buddy but no time to walk, I've found that shaking the phone up and down is often sufficient to fool the pedometer into thinking you're walking. Also, opening gifts from friends frequently results in Pinap Berries (and near as I can tell, _only_ Pinap Berries with no Razz or Nanab) so when you do run across wild Magikarp you'll have a bigger stock to double the catch candies with.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Quick question: do you have the quest 'A Mythical Discovery' active? Because if so, wait on evolving Flopsie once you get the candies, because one of the steps of the quest requires you to evolve Magikarp. (No one warned me when I started, so I ended up having to evolve a _second_ Magikarp. )
> 
> But as far as getting candies in the first place, if you've already got Flopsie set as your Buddy but no time to walk, I've found that shaking the phone up and down is often sufficient to fool the pedometer into thinking you're walking. Also, opening gifts from friends frequently results in Pinap Berries (and near as I can tell, _only_ Pinap Berries with no Razz or Nanab) so when you do run across wild Magikarp you'll have a bigger stock to double the catch candies with.


I've got it active, which is why Flopsie is my active companion.  :Small Wink:  Ironically, I am far enough along that the 5 rare candies I get from that quest would be enough to evolve Flopsie.

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> Something I observed during GO Fest today: why does Magikarp flop around like a landed fish but Feebas _doesnt?_ Theyre both rather useless until they evolve, they have the same body style, why does Feebas get to look more dignified?


Feebas is a stronger fish. In game they fill the same niche, sure, but conceptually they're pretty different. Magikarp is first presented in the first games as a scam, you literally paid for a useless fish. With diligence the most pathetic creature becomes a powerhouse, one that legendarily craves further violence.

Feebas is just supposed to be ugly. It's weakness isn't baked into the core of its presentation, instead pokedex entries emphasize its shabbiness. And then with diligence (but a different kind, fighting the Beauty stat instead of actual opponents) it becomes a creature of beauty. It's also initially much harder to find. A diamond in the rough, perhaps. 

Anyway. It's Ugly Duckling instead of Charles Atlas.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> I've got it active, which is why Flopsie is my active companion.  Ironically, I am far enough along that the 5 rare candies I get from that quest would be enough to evolve Flopsie.


So did you get Flopsie evolved?

----------


## Mark Hall

> So did you get Flopsie evolved?


4 short. My weekends don't give me much play time.

----------


## Man_Over_Game

Been playing Pokemon Unite.  It's a free MOBA on switch.  It encourages a lot of mobility and combat, has a lot of subtle nuances that rewards players that know how to play (like how jungling is a big deal, and rewards only go to the team that lands the last hit).

It's pretty clever, and not a badly designed MOBA, it's just tricky to find the right pokemon to play since a lot of them have unique playstyles and combos that aren't obvious until you've played them a few times.  

It also does a pretty good job of making no position boring.  For instance, the starter support you can get focuses on landing sticky bombs that heal allies if they're caught in the explosion, or sending out a terrain effect that speeds up allies and slows enemies, so you're encouraged to still be aggressive and stay active in the game.

----------


## Qwertystop

It is a bit too aggressive about monetization, though. Real-money to get and upgrade stat-boost items, and an extremely slow trickle of currency to unlock more playables.

----------


## danzibr

Man.  Been trying to make decent teams in PoGo, made a big realization.

Was looking at top attackers in type.  I wanted the top few of each type (non-mega), going for a nice spread over the best teams.

But then I was looking at their actual damage output... the top non-mega Psychic attacker, for example, is over 6x as "good" (using good ol' dps^3*tdo) as the top Bug.  Even if we did a weighted geometric mean, that's still ~60% better.  

Granted that's a bit extreme.  Psychic has Shadow Mewtwo, and Bug is garbage... but still, even with super effective damage, the top Bug attackers *still* lose out to other types that aren't hitting for super effective.  Kind of disappointing.

But then again, if you have no problems beating any content, it doesn't really matter.

Looking at the top 75 dps^3*tdo (based on both moves having STAB, and single best of a given type), there are 0 Poison, Bug, Fairy.  Oof.

----------


## Mark Hall

Flopsie has evolved! He's now a 2340... not my biggest, but a respectable size and my second strongest water (after a Vaporeon).

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Flopsie has evolved! He's now a 2340... not my biggest, but a respectable size and my second strongest water (after a Vaporeon).


Congratulations for getting Flopsie Pokevolved.  :Smile:

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Word of warning for the next POGO Community Day, which is *Eevee* - the news article says they're reducing the number of hearts you need for Sylveon, but it doesn't say _anything_ about reducing the amount of walking you need to do for Espeon/Umbreon. So if you want your Shadow Ball Espeon or your Psychic Umbreon, start getting those km in now!




> Flopsie has evolved! He's now a 2340... not my biggest, but a respectable size and my second strongest water (after a Vaporeon).


Congrats! :D

----------


## danzibr

> Flopsie has evolved! He's now a 2340... not my biggest, but a respectable size and my second strongest water (after a Vaporeon).


Grats!

Word of warning though, CP isn't a great indicator for performance in battle.  Moves are way more important.  For level 40 Gyarados, best Water moveset gives dps^3*tdo of 1321, and for level 40 Vaporeon it's 915.  



> Word of warning for the next POGO Community Day, which is *Eevee* - the news article says they're reducing the number of hearts you need for Sylveon, but it doesn't say _anything_ about reducing the amount of walking you need to do for Espeon/Umbreon. So if you want your Shadow Ball Espeon or your Psychic Umbreon, start getting those km in now!


Man, I'm super excited for this.  Eevee's one of my favorite Pokemon, I started playing again shortly after the last Eevee day, missed all those shinies.  I'm looking to get a complete set (1 of each normal, 1 of each shiny).  As-is I only have 2 shiny Eevees.

----------


## Rater202

Thought experiment.

You are a mad scientist.

You have obtained a copy of the MewTwo genome. You have also obtained other Pokemon DNA samples and a lot of data about regional Pokemon.

Your mysterious, possibly evil employer wants you to make a regional Varient Mewtwo, the best possible variant you can.

What do you do?

My gut instinct would be to go for whatever type would give the best defensive "upgrade" over a pure psychic type but that's just me.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Thought experiment.
> 
> You are a mad scientist.
> 
> You have obtained a copy of the MewTwo genome. You have also obtained other Pokemon DNA samples and a lot of data about regional Pokemon.
> 
> Your mysterious, possibly evil employer wants you to make a regional Varient Mewtwo, the best possible variant you can.
> 
> What do you do?
> ...


Make two. the boss gets the weaker one, I secretly make the stronger one which I raise with care so that they're loyal to me, then when the evil employer inevitably mistreats their weaker version I take over with my loyal one, possibly even convince the weaker one to join my side during or afterwards.

----------


## Fredaintdead

> Thought experiment.
> 
> You are a mad scientist.
> 
> You have obtained a copy of the MewTwo genome. You have also obtained other Pokemon DNA samples and a lot of data about regional Pokemon.
> 
> Your mysterious, possibly evil employer wants you to make a regional Varient Mewtwo, the best possible variant you can.
> 
> What do you do?
> ...


Yeah, I gotta agree with your gut there. I'm making a Psychic/Steel Mecha-Mewtwo and raising it as if it were my own child. That way 1) It's less likely to go on rampages as it understands love, and 2) When evil boss guy inevitably tries to remove me, my Super-Robo-Child will defend me by vaporising him.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Yeah, I gotta agree with your gut there. I'm making a Psychic/Steel Mecha-Mewtwo and raising it as if it were my own child. That way 1) It's less likely to go on rampages as it understands love, and 2) When evil boss guy inevitably tries to remove me, my Super-Robo-Child will defend me by vaporising him.


I thought about Steel too, but it got nerfed and doesnt protect against Ghost or Dark moves anymore.  :Small Annoyed: 

But if were using pre-Gen VI Steel then Psychic/Steel is probably good enough. Otherwise Id go bonkers, make it typeless and give it Wonder Guard as a special Ability, give it a pair of Safety Goggles and hmmmmaybe Heal Bell. Or Safeguard which Mewtwo gets normally. Something to protect against damaging statuses, at any rate.

----------


## Fable Wright

> Your mysterious, possibly evil employer wants you to make a regional Varient Mewtwo, the best possible variant you can.
> 
> What do you do?
> 
> My gut instinct would be to go for whatever type would give the best defensive "upgrade" over a pure psychic type but that's just me.


I'd probably go with mixing in Faerie type.

Fairy typing is used for guardian deities, happy go lucky mons, and mons who form deep emotional bonds with their trainers. In other words, it's the most emotionally stable type, the one that gives Mewtwo something to really and truly care about other than _everything hurts_. 

I figure that it's the typing that is least likely to get me killed by an out of control Mewtwo, and the one most likely to stand up against my boss but _not_ kill me if I show it kindness.

----------


## Fredaintdead

> I thought about Steel too, but it got nerfed and doesnt protect against Ghost or Dark moves anymore. 
> 
> But if were using pre-Gen VI Steel then Psychic/Steel is probably good enough. Otherwise Id go bonkers, make it typeless and give it Wonder Guard as a special Ability, give it a pair of Safety Goggles and hmmmmaybe Heal Bell. Or Safeguard which Mewtwo gets normally. Something to protect against damaging statuses, at any rate.


I mean yeah, Psychic/Steel is not as good as it used to be, but it still gives the best number of resistances as far as I can tell (9 resistances and 1 immunity for 4 weaknesses, none of which are more than x2)

Honestly I'm less trying to make something absolutely optimised and more just "Mecha-Mewtwo would be cool I bet I could do some real Digimon-level silliness with that and stick like, eleven buster cannons in there."

----------


## Qwertystop

> I'd probably go with mixing in Faerie type.
> 
> Fairy typing is used for guardian deities, happy go lucky mons, and mons who form deep emotional bonds with their trainers. In other words, it's the most emotionally stable type, the one that gives Mewtwo something to really and truly care about other than _everything hurts_. 
> 
> I figure that it's the typing that is least likely to get me killed by an out of control Mewtwo, and the one most likely to stand up against my boss but _not_ kill me if I show it kindness.


It also includes Hatterene, which will kill you for being too loud.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wonder if there's a Dark/Fairy type Pokemon that exists in Pokemon games? If not, then they should make one.

----------


## Fable Wright

> I wonder if there's a Dark/Fairy type Pokemon that exists in Pokemon games? If not, then they should make one.


...They already did. It's Impidimp's evolutionary line.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> ...They already did. It's Impidimp's evolutionary line.


Cool. I check out Impidimp's evolutionary line and it's awesome.  :Cool:

----------


## Techwarrior

> Thought experiment.
> 
> You are a mad scientist.
> 
> You have obtained a copy of the MewTwo genome. You have also obtained other Pokemon DNA samples and a lot of data about regional Pokemon.
> 
> Your mysterious, possibly evil employer wants you to make a regional Varient Mewtwo, the best possible variant you can.
> 
> What do you do?
> ...


Flash Fire Bug/Steel is about the best you can get typing-wise.

----------


## MCerberus

> Flash Fire Bug/Steel is about the best you can get typing-wise.


Isn't Orre the south-western US?
Orrean Durant sounds like bad news

----------


## Rater202

> Isn't Orre the south-western US?
> Orrean Durant sounds like bad news


Orre seems to be based on Arizona, yes.

Orre is also canonically the only place in the world that has no native Pokemon and has almost no pokemon there in th wild.

Considering the implications in the games that everything on Earth is either a human, a pokemon, or a non-pokemon plant or fungus... That kind of implies that there was some kind of extinction even in Orre and nothing came back to the area until humans did.

Regardless, I think it has region-specific variations of Pokemon.

----------


## MCerberus

> Orre seems to be based on Arizona, yes.
> 
> Orre is also canonically the only place in the world that has no native Pokemon and has almost no pokemon there in th wild.
> 
> Considering the implications in the games that everything on Earth is either a human, a pokemon, or a non-pokemon plant or fungus... That kind of implies that there was some kind of extinction even in Orre and nothing came back to the area until humans did.
> 
> Regardless, I think it has region-specific variations of Pokemon.


I mean a regional apocalypse-in-a-can could have easily gone off. I think Sinnoh is the only region without a direct self-destruct button, and the bad guys managed to... nearly destroy the universe with it. The three birbs are probably the tamest, but they could have wrecked Orre easily. Now that we know there are more Regis it could have happened that NO PEONY THIS IS WHY WE DON'T MESS WITH THE TEMPLES

----------


## danzibr

[PoGo]

I've been doing some team-building research.  Spreadsheeted out the top 76 PvE attackers (only considered STAB, did dps^3*tdo, and removed duplicates of the same type).  I wanted construct teams of the top 6 for each counter, rather than say 6 shadow Machamps.  Results were interesting.  Of those top 76, Bug has 19 counters, Dark 5, Dragon 16, Electric 3, Fairy 2, Fighting 11, Fire 9, Flying 18, etc.

So this tells me... to get up to a full team of counters, I'll need to double/triple up on some of the top counters.  Fairy is only beaten by Steel, Bug, and Poison, for example, but the top 76 have *no* Bug or Poison.  In fact, the only 2 are shadow Metagross and Metagross.  Electric being only beaten by Ground has Landorus Therian Forme, Garchomp, and Groudon, so again need to double/triple up.

Not quite a 180, but very different how I was thinking to invest my stardust.

----------


## Spore

> I think Sinnoh is the only region without a direct self-destruct button, and the bad guys managed to... nearly destroy the universe with it.


I am confused. Are you counting pokemon-induced armageddon or not? Because I don't know what could threaten Kanto or Johto (aside from Mewtwo, or Ho-oh deciding it is time to kill and to grill).

----------


## MCerberus

> I am confused. Are you counting pokemon-induced armageddon or not? Because I don't know what could threaten Kanto or Johto (aside from Mewtwo, or Ho-oh deciding it is time to kill and to grill).


The season birds can be pretty destructive and they're all full of murder rage.
In some interpretations.
Some times... Articuno sells sno-cones.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Most Legendary and Mythical Pokemon can be very destructive depending on how much of a threat they are.

----------


## Spore

The question is not if they are or are not destructive, but if you count them. Because if you do, unleashing Giratina onto the world is surely dooming it, and it gives the region "pokemon-doomsday" status as well.

And this is the main theme of Pokemon ever since the first generation anyhow. An animal/pokemon is not evil, but it can be used for evil means if abused by humans. It all works, except Eternatus. It seems pretty evil from the get-go.

----------


## MCerberus

> The question is not if they are or are not destructive, but if you count them. Because if you do, unleashing Giratina onto the world is surely dooming it, and it gives the region "pokemon-doomsday" status as well.


It's been a while but I thought the only part of the Giratina puzzle actually native to the region were the lake spirits. Although by that logic the real threat residing in the Alola region is
*Spoiler*
Show

nebby. pew.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The question is not if they are or are not destructive, but if you count them. Because if you do, unleashing Giratina onto the world is surely dooming it, and it gives the region "pokemon-doomsday" status as well.
> 
> And this is the main theme of Pokemon ever since the first generation anyhow. An animal/pokemon is not evil, but it can be used for evil means if abused by humans. It all works, except Eternatus. It seems pretty evil from the get-go.


Uh, that's exactly my point.

----------


## 137beth

I installed Pokemon Go for the first time ever a few weeks ago, on July 20 2021.  After 20 days of consecutive play, I think I am ready to give up on it.

I avoided playing the game when it was first released, because I heard it
1) Had a lot of connectivity issues, and
2) Was missing a lot of features people expected.

Five years in, issue (1) seems to be resolved, at least in my area.  Whether issue (2) is resolved depends on which features from the core series you want.  

There are a few reasons why I think this game is not for me.  First, of the various things to do in the game, the only ones I found fun to do more than once are exploring and catching wild pokemon.  The combat system, whether it's a gym battle, a raid battle, a battle against another player, or a battle against a Team Go Rocket trainer, gets old really fast.  

Next, the closest things the game has to a plot are the "special research" questlines.  But the plots feel more like those of a post-game sidequest than those of a main story of a Pokemon game.  

Moreover, a lot of the quests take the form "Do [thing that was fun to do once] 20 times," so they don't sustain my interest.  This was also the issue I had with Ingress.  Also, several of the special research quests involve doing raids, which I consider the least fun part of the game, so I'm avoiding them.  

If I avoid battling and just focus on catching wild pokemon, then I run into another issue: I frequently hit up against the limit of how many items I can hold.  The game encourages me to spend real money on PokeCoins to buy more storage space, which I don't want to do.  And while some other freemium games give out some of their premium currency for daily log-in rewards, getting pokecoins without spending real money is much harder.  The only way to do it without fighting raid battles seems to be leaving pokemon to defend gyms, which grants pokecoins quite slowly.  

Maybe if I keep playing long enough then eventually I'll have enough item storage that it won't be an issue.  But this is a freemium game, so there will always be some "quality of life" issue that Niantic will use to try to tempt players to buy pokecoins.  If it's not item storage, it will be something else.

All of that is why I have decided to stop playing for awhile.  Today, August 8, I reached 151 unique pokemon caught, so that seems like a good place to stop.  Maybe I'll come back to the game in a year or two to see what they've added:  Bulbapedia tells me that the special research quests weren't in the game until 2018, and Team Go Rocket wasn't in until 2019.  They'll probably eventually add more stuff that I'll find fun to do once or twice before quitting again.

Final PokeDex stats:
Overall pokemon caught: 151
Overall pokemon seen: 232
Mega pokemon caught/seen: 0
3 star Pokemon caught: 54
Shadow Pokemon caught: 10
Shadow Pokemon seen: 18
Purified Pokemon caught: 10
Purified Pokemon seen: 12
Trainer rank: 23

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Apparently theres a bug where you can evolve Espeon or Umbreon without any walking at all, as long as the Eevee youre trying to evolve is set as your Buddy. Theyre not planning to fix it until after the weekend. :)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Apparently theres a bug where you can evolve Espeon or Umbreon without any walking at all, as long as the Eevee youre trying to evolve is set as your Buddy. Theyre not planning to fix it until after the weekend. :)


Wow. That's awesome.  :Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

I still don't like the chibi remake style.
Legends looking better though.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Imagine a PU Pokemon rise to AG Pokemon. Wow, Imagine the possibilities.  :Eek:

----------


## boj0

Yeah dude, I am totally imagining it right now

----------


## Spore

> I installed Pokemon Go for the first time ever a few weeks ago, on July 20 2021.  After 20 days of consecutive play, I think I am ready to give up on it.


Battery life was a main issue for me. But the game gets repetitive and grindy, plus I run out of Pokeballs and as yourself I don't want to spend freemium money on basic necessities. Yes, I know pokestops yield Pokeballs but there are too many pokemon in between.

Part of the issue is that I started in the beginning (was it 2016?) and was forced to bulk catch Pidgeys and Rattatas to build my trainer level.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Battery life was a main issue for me. But the game gets repetitive and grindy, plus I run out of Pokeballs and as yourself I don't want to spend freemium money on basic necessities.


Cant help with the battery life, but are you aware you can earn the freemium coins by defending Gyms? Its a little slow (especially if youre like me and live in Podunk, Nowhere away from most Gyms) but completely doable; Ive been playing for ~2 years and am past level 40 and have yet to spend a single cent of real-world money.

You can also get Pokéballs by opening gifts from friends, if you dont live near any Pokéstops.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Imagine a PU Pokemon rise to AG Pokemon. Wow, Imagine the possibilities.


Wobbuffet came close, jumping from NU to Uber when Ruby and Sapphire gave it Shadow Tag (PU and AG didn't exist yet).  Blaziken also jumped from UU to Uber when it got Speed Boost as its Hidden Ability.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Wobbuffet came close, jumping from NU to Uber when Ruby and Sapphire gave it Shadow Tag (PU and AG didn't exist yet).  Blaziken also jumped from UU to Uber when it got Speed Boost as its Hidden Ability.


Cool. I wish that Arceus was AG instead of Uber.  :Frown:

----------


## Fable Wright

> Cool. I wish that Arceus was AG instead of Uber.


...But why, though? Arceus isn't a problem in the Ubers metagame. They can come with a huge number of sets, patch in most needs for a team, and are generally good for metagame diversity. They're not like Xerneas or the Primals.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> ...But why, though? Arceus isn't a problem in the Ubers metagame. They can come with a huge number of sets, patch in most needs for a team, and are generally good for metagame diversity. They're not like Xerneas or the Primals.


No, but Mega Rayquaza Is. It can beat Arceus along with every single Pokemon in the game. Mega Rayquaza isn't even a deity.  :Sigh:

----------


## tonberrian

I think anyone who isn't expecting that Arceus will have a new super powered form come the D/P remakes hasn't been paying attention.

----------


## SaintRidley

I think after Mega Ray broke everything, the Gen IV meta wound up banning Arceus from Ubers and creating a Gen IV AG.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I think after Mega Ray broke everything, the Gen IV meta wound up banning Arceus from Ubers and creating a Gen IV AG.


I'll be getting my popcorn ready and see this show "Arceus broke the game" when it happens.  :Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

New card set released, which is eevees + dragons.
Or, as my card pulls are telling me: build a flapple deck.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Chansey is considered one of the best defensive wall Pokemon in the game. She got very high hit points. She is so great that so many players get annoyed by her defensive antics.  :Smile:

----------


## boj0

The Pokemon Legends: Arceus game is supposed to be coming out late January, if that's what you meant.

----------


## Tag365

What do you think of Skuntank? It is my favorite Pokémon species so far.

----------


## Spore

> Cant help with the battery life, but are you aware you can earn the freemium coins by defending Gyms?


I'm smack dab in the middle of an university town, I am WOEFULLY unprepared to defend a gym for my underdog team (Instinct....yay?) with my underpowered 'mons.

Plus I am pretty sure abandoning my old account and rebuilding a new one would vastly improve my abilities rather than rolling with my old account. Since new 'mons have become very varied, and I now know how to get a catching streak and XP with a new pokemon with a curve ball after a streak yields MASSIVE XP. I am not massively sad to loose my account of tenthousand pidgeys either.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> I'm smack dab in the middle of an university town, I am WOEFULLY unprepared to defend a gym for my underdog team (Instinct....yay?) with my underpowered 'mons.
> 
> Plus I am pretty sure abandoning my old account and rebuilding a new one would vastly improve my abilities rather than rolling with my old account. Since new 'mons have become very varied, and I now know how to get a catching streak and XP with a new pokemon with a curve ball after a streak yields MASSIVE XP. I am not massively sad to loose my account of tenthousand pidgeys either.


Up to you, but in case anyone else is in a similar situation is reading Im going to try to give advice anyway:

Pick off hours to take over Gyms. For example, in my area people usually take over the Gyms on their way home after work, which is in the 4 to 5 PM range. So if most of the people in your area are home by 5 PM, go out at 6. If everyone sleeps in until 10 get up a little early.Try to take over Gyms right before a Raid - no one can challenge you until the Raid is over, this usually guarantees at least a few coins.Since theres a cap on earning coins, you can make up for quality with quantity and vice-versa - if there are a lot of Gyms nearby, you dont need to hold an individual Gym for the full 8 hours 20 minutes, if you can hold eight Gyms for an hour or so each.Beating Gym defenders and putting Pokémon in Gyms raises your Badge rank - the higher the rank, the more goodies you get when you spin the Gym. Ditto for feeding the defenders Berries.Ive found its helpful to space out the Gyms I take over when possible, and not to have them all in a row down one street, or similarly close to each other. That way when someone starts taking them over they dont all get taken at the same time. This might not be possible depending on your Gym situation though.

----------


## danzibr

> I'm smack dab in the middle of an university town, I am WOEFULLY unprepared to defend a gym for my underdog team (Instinct....yay?) with my underpowered 'mons.
> 
> Plus I am pretty sure abandoning my old account and rebuilding a new one would vastly improve my abilities rather than rolling with my old account. Since new 'mons have become very varied, and I now know how to get a catching streak and XP with a new pokemon with a curve ball after a streak yields MASSIVE XP. I am not massively sad to loose my account of tenthousand pidgeys either.


Wait
In PoGo theres no reason to start a new account (unless you cant access your old one/want 2 accounts). 

Worst-case scenario you can transfer all your mons, delete all your items, then boom its like starting over but at a higher level and more storage space. 

Unless you mean you dont want to be instinct? Theres an item in the shop that lets you switch teams. 1000 coins, but you can get that before too long (hopefully).

----------


## MCerberus

> team (Instinct....yay?) with my underpowered 'mons.


The power of evolution services the ice bird, as is the way of things.

I actually find the most fun part of go the "Serious" team rivalries. That and the normal weird fan theories you can come up with for pokemon candies.

----------


## Spore

I am stupid but I love Zapdos too much to even consider switching teams.

----------


## danzibr

> I am stupid but I love Zapdos too much to even consider switching teams.


Then by all means, use your old account. I see no reason to restart.

----------


## MCerberus

Odd note about some merch: I bought my sister an eevee ugly Christmas sweater from the official source, and picked up a team mystic (for life) hoody for myself.


The sweater is fluffy and the hoody is thick and dense. I'm so used to getting totally ripped off buying outwear and branded stuff in particular that acceptable quality is kind of a shock.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I started a new challenge run in Platinum, and I've got my first dilemma. So first, here are my rules:

1 Set mode.
2 No trainer items in battle.
3 No overleveling the next gym leader's ace. For the E4/champ combo the fourth E4 member's ace is used as the measure upon entering the first battle.
4 No resetting, what happened happened. (Except maybe if I wipe against the champion and my Pokémon are now all overleveled or something. But not as a way to prevent losing money or to redo a capture.)
5 All catching is done "in triplo". You can use a pokémon if and only if you obtained exactly three members of that line. Ones you've done that you can pick the one you like best and use it. This applies to Pokémon you use for HM's as well as for Pokémon that do battle. (Edit: And no breeding, I suppose, or you could get away with catching a lot less pokémon.)
6 Only use premier balls.  :Small Big Grin:  Those are those balls you get for free every time you buy ten regular pokéballs. They don't have an elevated catch rate or any other special power.
7 I must eventually use Rhydon and Quagsire because they're my favorites.

Now, rule 6 is the big one. I'm going to think about the mon I try to catch. The first two on my list are Bidoof, for HM use and to Rock Smash through the first (rock type) gym, and Kricketot, because it learns Sing and False Swipe for making the most of my premier balls and for taking down the grass type gym that comes second. I actually started the run thinking I'd use the starter Chimchar as well, but I actually think this should be doable without it. Or well, I hope it anyway.

My dilemma is this: I caught the 3 Bidoof's. Do I go with the ability Simple (doubles the effect of all stat changes) so that I can eventually get Amnesia on it and tank a bunch of damage (Swords Dance is not an option in this gen) or do I go for Unaware (ignore enemy stat changes), to counter opponents setting up? Unless I'm severely underestimating the amount of early game money or overestimating catch difficulty, i will be using this Bidoof for a while.

(For aditional information, the Unaware Bidoof has a neutral nature, the simple ones are +def -spdef and +spatk -spdef respectively, I prefer the +def one among those two, it also seems to have slightly better IV's from the limited information I can see at level 3.)

Anyone has a clear favorite?

Edit: i'm starting to feel more and more Unaware, it's too cool an ability to not use. And it's so funny to have when an opponent starts belly drumming.

Edit the day after: Yup, Unaware. I found that there is actually a very nice Simple Bidoof moveset in Platinum, which is Amnesia, Charge Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk. It doesn't come online until after the 8th gym and it costs a bunch of coins at the game corner, but you'd have it for the E4 and the postgame. What the game doesn't have is a nice Simple Bidoof moveset that works combined with the HM's. So Unaware STAB HM's it is.




Speaking of favorites:




> What do you think of Skuntank? It is my favorite Pokémon species so far.


Cool. I haven't used it much, but I like trainers that have their own style and kind of "less standard" favorites. Plus the poison type is pretty cool, and dark has some interesting moves

----------


## enderlord99

It took some digging, but I found confirmation that Mindy is still awful in BDSP.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

My planning ahead is already becoming the undoing of my run. i spend my money on catching Kricketune and Zubat, but nothing that's actually good against the rock type gym. I almost got the gym on attempt 4 or so, but I also overleveled Bidoof on that attempt. I can scrounge up enough money to train up another Pokémon, I might stand a chance if I catch a Budew and walk it for 50.000 steps to evolve it. to get some oomph behin it's 4x effective Mega Drain. Psyduck is also an option, or maybe even Onix. Despite me getting more catch chances than I had initially thought, this is turning out kind of hard.

Kind of grindy too. Maybe I should become a dirty casual and start liking the newer games better.

----------


## Spore

Only using Premier Balls is a pointless and boring rule to be perfectly honest.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Only using Premier Balls is a pointless and boring rule to be perfectly honest.


The point is to limit the money I can spend and to make me think better about which mons I try to catch (because of the financial limits) and how (because of the limited number of throws and the bad balls).

I'm not saying it's a good point, but that's what I've got.

----------


## Lans

I need to add friends, and I figured other people also might needed to do so.

My trainer code is 9724 5386 5444

----------


## Rakaydos

Try the "Gaming (Other)" section of the forum.

----------


## Lans

Thank you I did not think about that

----------


## Lans

Pokemon Go
I need to add friends, and I figured other people also might needed to do so.

My trainer code is 9724 5386 5444

----------


## Peelee

*The Mod on the Silver Mountain:* Threads merged.

----------


## Lans

Thank you to those that added me

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Okay, maybe only premier balls was a dumb challenge. I still have easily enough money even with the 15 times higher costs per Pokémon caught. And I'm hardly running this as a solo challenge either. I have a full team of six (including a Gible now, who's clearly a street shark because he's named Vin Diesel (fun fact, in Dutch the word fin is spelled with a v, so this video is even funnier for us)) and I haven't even encountered the two mandatory members yet.

It was pretty cool that I just beat the third gym first try with a total party HP left of 8. I'm not saying I play well, I don't. I'm also not saying the gym is hard, as I was pretty underleveled and don't play well. But I am saying that was a good guess of when I was ready to try that gym

So yeah, it's basically just an ordinary "don't use kiddie mode, no overleveling" fun run.

Anyone else have any non-news about your current playthroughs? Nobody running the new games?

----------


## Peelee

> Anyone else have any non-news about your current playthroughs? Nobody running the new games?


It was a ridiculous choice to keep the Pokètch as a green LCD type screen with severely un-optimized UI and layout, exactly as it was when Diamond/Pearl first came out, considering everything else had been updated with the times.

Also, and I satythis as something who started out with Red version in the last millennium, I am unhappy they moved TMs back to the one-and-done category.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> It was a ridiculous choice to keep the Pokètch as a green LCD type screen with severely un-optimized UI and layout, exactly as it was when Diamond/Pearl first came out, considering everything else had been updated with the times.
> 
> Also, and I satythis as something who started out with Red version in the last millennium, I am unhappy they moved TMs back to the one-and-done category.


But they now hand you several at the same time right? As kind of a way in between? But I agree, particularly if you have any plans to really keep a save file around and maybe try online battles or shiny hunting or... it's all too tempting to just never touch your one use TM's, at least without a proper way to get more, even if that's only in the postgame.

----------


## Binks

I've been playing the new ones. Never played the originals (skipped everything between Gold/Silver and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire), so went into the remakes functionally "blind". And man, did this game make me appreciate Sword and Shield more than I did before lol. So many "gimmick" annoyances in the old games they've gotten rid of. Single-use TMs, ridiculous requirements for encountering some Pokemon (Feebas, Drifloon, Spiritomb, etc), and the old style caves/grass where you could leave a battle with a wild Pokemon and not even get a single step forward before hitting the next one.

I'm enjoying the game, in spite of these flaws, but it really made me appreciate how much of the garbage "grind" aspects the newer games have removed with the overworld Pokemon and such. I know a lot of people miss that kind of fake difficulty, but I am not one of them. And THANK GOODNESS they didn't bring back needing HMs but used the Sun/Moon style for that.

That said, the remake improvements are great. Ramp-whatever park is a really cool idea (even if I wish it was a fly point, those are WAY too limited in this game IMHO Scratch that, turns out it is, but it wasn't showing as such the first time I looked at my map after leaving it for some reason. Likely because I'd just flown away from it) and the Grand Underground is amazing. I keep having to pull myself away from just spending hours banging away at walls and poking into dens to see what's there, even moreso now that I have the National Dex (hooray for not knowing you had to make a specific mistake or you're stuck waiting a week for that  :Small Annoyed: ) and tons of new Pokemon are spawning down there. Really looking forward to trying out some underground adventuring with friends just to see how it functions.

----------


## Qwertystop

> I've been playing the new ones. Never played the originals (skipped everything between Gold/Silver and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire), so went into the remakes functionally "blind". And man, did this game make me appreciate Sword and Shield more than I did before lol. So many "gimmick" annoyances in the old games they've gotten rid of. Single-use TMs, ridiculous requirements for encountering some Pokemon (Feebas, Drifloon, Spiritomb, etc), and the old style caves/grass where you could leave a battle with a wild Pokemon and not even get a single step forward before hitting the next one.
> 
> I'm enjoying the game, in spite of these flaws, but it really made me appreciate how much of the garbage "grind" aspects the newer games have removed with the overworld Pokemon and such. I know a lot of people miss that kind of fake difficulty, but I am not one of them. And THANK GOODNESS they didn't bring back needing HMs but used the Sun/Moon style for that.


I like a lot of the weird ones, honestly. Feels more explore-y and less like a theme park. IMO, green 3 and 4 were the best for that - before, there were too many hardware limitations, and after, things got progressively more streamlined. You'd never get something like the Regi puzzles in newer games, and I don't think there's even been a roamer since gen 5 (even ORAS turned the Lati into a guarantee) until these remakes. Fewer and fewer little offshoot routes and caves and anything else you won't get a guided tour of in the story. There was a cave in the original DPPt that I didn't even find until a third play!

As for other things... Re-usable TMs are good for team-building in post-game, but making it into a Significant Decision for the story was interesting back when I was young and didn't know what was coming. Single-use with the ability to restock seems like a good balance, there. Not needing to devote a move slot to HMs is good, but calling mons that aren't even yours does make it feel less like an adventure with your team and more like a tour with on-call taxi service. I'd have liked if having the TM let any mon that could learn the move use it in the overworld, without needing to take a move slot. That gives a lot more flexibility (most of the moves *can* be learned by plenty of things, it's just really annoying to lock a move slot on something like Cut) while still making it be your team helping you through it. Random encounters... Eh. There's good and bad about it. I liked what ORAS did, to let you hunt down a specific mon more easily, but the interruptions aren't great, but being able to casually walk around all the encounters makes things feel a lot less wilderness unless there's a lot more of them and avoiding is actually difficult.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Anyone else have any non-news about your current playthroughs? Nobody running the new games?


Im only playing POGO, but I will gripe about the lousy reception Ive been getting. Its bad enough I dont get out much, but having the thing refuse to update my location when I do is just frustrating.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Pokemon Go
> I need to add friends, and I figured other people also might needed to do so.
> 
> My trainer code is 9724 5386 5444


Don't NEED new friends, but I shot you one.

----------


## MCerberus

The Diamond/Pearl remakes have the same problem difficulty-wise as Sword and Shield:
Mandatory Exp Share + any time in the wilderness area (the underground) = the level curve being completely demolished.

On the plus side I realized that 4-5mon core teams do really well. You use the last two slots for dex evolutions/eggs/evolving your magikarps, babies, and pseudos

----------


## danzibr

[PoGo]

Anecdote: got my wisdom teeth out, on some funny medicine, was instructed to not make financial decisions. 

Spent 2.4 million stardust (of my total 2.8) powering up some mons. Unsure whether that counts as disobeying medical advice.

----------


## Spore

> The Diamond/Pearl remakes have the same problem difficulty-wise as Sword and Shield:
> Mandatory Exp Share + any time in the wilderness area (the underground) = the level curve being completely demolished.
> 
> On the plus side I realized that 4-5mon core teams do really well. You use the last two slots for dex evolutions/eggs/evolving your magikarps, babies, and pseudos


Anyone got experience if a 9-12 pokemon team fares "better" xp-wise? I love the region, but I absolutely HATE friendship mechanics and overlevelling.

----------


## Fredaintdead

By any chance would anyone be able to help me fill out the last few spots in my Sword Pokedex please?

Direct Trades Needed:
Kabuto, Gible (Im willing to provide Bagon and Omanyte if you'd prefer specifics)

Touchtrades Needed:
Glastrier, Regileki

Please PM me if youre able and willing to help. Thank you.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Happiny, Chansey, and Blissey look like fairies to me. They should make their type Normal/Fairy or just Fairy.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Happiny, Chansey, and Blissey look like fairies to me. They should make their type Normal/Fairy or just Fairy.


This is similar to why Gyarados was made water/flying, while learning no flying type moves, instead of water/dragon. there is a lorewise justification for it, being that he's based on the legend of a carp who became a flying dragon and was then punished with the loss of his flight. So that's a cool backgroundy way to look at it. But in truth the reason it was done was probably thet water/dragon would have been pretty broken in generation 1. It's only weakness would have been to dragon type moves, which almost no Pokémon got. And the dragon type pokémon that did get those moves where carefully kept limited as to not waste their special feel with overexposure.

Chansey an Blissey are already almost stupidly broken in some ways, and just plain annoying to deal with in others. Sure, as normal/fairy types they would become weak to poison and steel type moves, but they'd lose their weakness to the much more common and often harder hitting fighting type moves in addition to gaining several resistances and an extra immunity, ánd STAB on a bunch of great new moves. They were definitely part of the group of fluffy pink ball shaped pokémon the fairy type was designed around, but it would have been too much of a power boost to a family that's already pretty centralizing, both in the meta and ingame.

(Fun fact: balance issues were apparently also one of the reasons why the originally planned evolution of Raichu (<-artist's impression, not official imagery) was scrapped way back in gen 1, before the concept of baby pokémon existed and before Pikachu had been chosen as the franchise's mascot.)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> This is similar to why Gyarados was made water/flying, while learning no flying type moves, instead of water/dragon. there is a lorewise justification for it, being that he's based on the legend of a carp who became a flying dragon and was then punished with the loss of his flight. So that's a cool backgroundy way to look at it. But in truth the reason it was done was probably thet water/dragon would have been pretty broken in generation 1. It's only weakness would have been to dragon type moves, which almost no Pokémon got. And the dragon type pokémon that did get those moves where carefully kept limited as to not waste their special feel with overexposure.
> 
> Chansey an Blissey are already almost stupidly broken in some ways, and just plain annoying to deal with in others. Sure, as normal/fairy types they would become weak to poison and steel type moves, but they'd lose their weakness to the much more common and often harder hitting fighting type moves in addition to gaining several resistances and an extra immunity, ánd STAB on a bunch of great new moves. They were definitely part of the group of fluffy pink ball shaped pokémon the fairy type was designed around, but it would have been too much of a power boost to a family that's already pretty centralizing, both in the meta and ingame.
> 
> (Fun fact: balance issues were apparently also one of the reasons why the originally planned evolution of Raichu (<-artist's impression, not official imagery) was scrapped way back in gen 1, before the concept of baby pokémon existed and before Pikachu had been chosen as the franchise's mascot.)


Yes, I agree with you. It would be considered a possibility of an Anything Goes tier with the additional power boost.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Okay, catching Giratina at the in-story moment is quite hard without overlevelling, with only premier balls and with no resets. So i found a hard part of the challenge.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Oké, Giratina vangen is wel redelijk moeilijk zonder overleveled te zijn, met alleen premier balls en zonder resetten. heb ik toch nog een lastig stuk gevonden.


Huh?  :Confused:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Sorry, brainfarted, forgot to speak English. Was correcting it while you posted.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Sorry, brainfarted, forgot to speak English. Was correcting it while you p0sted.


Well if that happens again. I'm going to get a translator by googling it.  :Smile:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Well if that happens again. I'm going to get a translator by googling it.


{Scrubbed}  :Small Big Grin:  "Sure, you should do that."

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Anyway last night I dream that Magikarp and Feebas have risen from Little Cup tier to Anything Goes Tier. They team up and beat every Pokemon in all generations.  :Smile:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Anyway last night I dream that Magikarp and Feebas have risen from Little Cup tier to Anything Goes Tier. They team up and beat every Pokemon in all generations.


And I dream that Girafarig could get the Simple ability (Swoobat get it and for Girafarig, its flavorful to think it works because it had two heads) but I know it will never happen lol

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> And I dream that Girafarig could get the Simple ability (Swoobat get it and for Girafarig, its flavorful to think it works because it had two heads) but I know it will never happen lol


Nice Pokemon dream.  :Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Has there ever been a draw or a stalemate in Pokemon games?  :Smile:

----------


## Fable Wright

> Has there ever been a draw or a stalemate in Pokemon games?


No, you just lose if your last pokemon faints taking out the opponent's last pokemon.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> No, you just lose if your last pokemon faints taking out the opponent's last pokemon.


In-game. In competitive I think that's a win, because recoil damage is applied after the damage of the attack itself. Right? Or not?

I'm pretty sure even things like both sides getting knocked out by sandstorm damage are resolved in some way. The faster pokémon probably gets hit first? Something like that.

I think for games and e-sports in general not having any kind of draw option is pretty common.

----------


## Rater202

I envy the Abra line's ability to be fully aware of their surroundings and interact with things in a limited fashion while simultaneously being fast asleep.

----------


## MCerberus

> I envy the Abra line's ability to be fully aware of their surroundings and interact with things in a limited fashion while simultaneously being fast asleep.



But that takes away the fun part about being asleep

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

A random thought occurred to me yesterday. Let's say we ever got an Elite 4 that specialize in 3 types each, like say Ground, Rock and Steel, Psychic, Ghost and Dark, Bug, Poison and Flying, Water, Ice and Fairy...

Then there'd be exactly six types left for the champion. In this example Fire, Electric, Fighting, Grass, Normal and Dragon.

Sure, secondary types would mess up any semblance of symmetry, but I still kind of like the idea.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wish there was Fire/Grass Type Pokemon exist because this dual-type doesn't have any weakness at all I think.

----------


## Fredaintdead

> I wish there was Fire/Grass Type Pokemon exist because this dual-type doesn't have any weakness at all I think.


I'd interested in it from a potential aesthetic standpoint, but it's still got weaknesses. Flying, Poison and Rock (all x2), with resistance to Grass (1/4), Electric and Steel.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I'd interested in it from a potential aesthetic standpoint, but it's still got weaknesses. Flying, Poison and Rock (all x2), with resistance to Grass (1/4), Electric and Steel.


Ok, I was wrong about no weaknesses. It will still be interesting though.  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

Fire/grass would take double damage from poison, rock, and flying.

I don't think there's any combination that has no weaknesses.

However, a flying/steal type with the Thick Fat ability would only have one weakness, only take half damage from seven types, take quarter damage from two types, and be immune to two types.

or something that might more realistically actually exist(as in, it already does) Legends Arceus has a regional variant of Zarua and its evolved form that are Normal/Ghost-type, which means that it's weak to dark type, normal resists poison and bug, and is outright immune to normal, fighting, and ghost type moves. (Unless it has an ability to alter its resistance.)

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Fire/grass would take double damage from poison, rock, and flying.
> 
> I don't think there's any combination that has no weaknesses.
> 
> However, a flying/steal type with the Thick Fat ability would only have one weakness, only take half damage from seven types, take quarter damage from two types, and be immune to two types.
> 
> or something that might more realistically actually exist(as in, it already does) Legends Arceus has a regional variant of Zarua and its evolved form that are Normal/Ghost-type, which means that it's weak to dark type, normal resists poison and bug, and is outright immune to normal, fighting, and ghost type moves. (Unless it has an ability to alter its resistance.)


You might be right about that.

So anyway I've been writing a Pokemon Let's Go Fan-Fiction Story on Wattpad and so many people have been reading my Pokemon Fan-Fiction story.

----------


## Rater202

An interesting note regarding the regional Zorua: The fluff for them is that Zorua were driven from their native region by humans who feared and hated them for their power of illusion but they couldn't adapt to the climate and died and are normal/ghost because they are the literal vengeful ghosts of pokemon driven from them homes and killed.

But.. the game is a prequel. It takes place a few centuries before the modern day, all of the Pokeballs appear to be crudely handcarved from apricorns, and the  Hisui region it takes place in is explicitly the Sinnoh Region under an older name.

So like... That paints a bit of a picture. Whatever region the zorua were from originally, they were driven out. They were probably originally pure normal type, but when they settled in the regions they can e found in in the modern-day they would ahve been forced to engage in underhanded or outright immoral behavior to survive, resulting in their descendants eventually becoming dark types(dark types being the "evil sneaky cheaty" pokemon) but the ones that went to Hisui didn't make it.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> I don't think there's any combination that has no weaknesses.


Not anymore no; Ghost/Dark _used_ to have no Weaknesses, but then Fairy got introduced.

----------


## MCerberus

> An interesting note regarding the regional Zorua: The fluff for them is that Zorua were driven from their native region by humans who feared and hated them for their power of illusion but they couldn't adapt to the climate and died and are normal/ghost because they are the literal vengeful ghosts of pokemon driven from them homes and killed.
> 
> But.. the game is a prequel. It takes place a few centuries before the modern day, all of the Pokeballs appear to be crudely handcarved from apricorns, and the  Hisui region it takes place in is explicitly the Sinnoh Region under an older name.
> 
> So like... That paints a bit of a picture. Whatever region the zorua were from originally, they were driven out. They were probably originally pure normal type, but when they settled in the regions they can e found in in the modern-day they would ahve been forced to engage in underhanded or outright immoral behavior to survive, resulting in their descendants eventually becoming dark types(dark types being the "evil sneaky cheaty" pokemon) but the ones that went to Hisui didn't make it.


They're getting real spicy with the dex this time around, because "raging amalgam of vengeful fish souls" still takes the cake.
Although I can't wait to see what the deal is with Typhlosion.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Not anymore no; Ghost/Dark _used_ to have no Weaknesses, but then Fairy got introduced.


Yes, I remember about the Ghost/Dark types have no weakness a long time ago but not anymore.

----------


## Peelee

> Not anymore no; Ghost/Dark _used_ to have no Weaknesses, but then Fairy got introduced.


And technically electric with levitate still have no weakness, but that requires an ability and isn't just pure typing.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> And technically electric with levitate still have no weakness, but that requires an ability and isn't just pure typing.


I forgot about that and why is it the purest Electric Pokemon only have one weakness which is Ground?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

{scrubbed}

That what I said before but so many members said that we don't need a mega evolution for Arceus because mythical Pokemon doesn't need a Mega Evoultion.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

The reason Arceus didn't get a mega (or primal form, or whatever) is that the mega thing had been retired again before they got to the gen 4 remakes.

That's the whole story.

----------


## DaOldeWolf

Anyone else got legends arceus?  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Anyone else got legends arceus?


Im waiting for reviews about the game from trustworthy sources and friends... but it might be the reason I buy a Switch if there IS a new GOOD Pokemon game lol (the last few games were very bad I heard, at least storywise. For me its very important)  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## DaOldeWolf

> Im waiting for reviews about the game from trustworthy sources and friends... but it might be the reason I buy a Switch if there IS a new GOOD Pokemon game lol (the last few games were very bad I heard, at least storywise. For me its very important)


Well, if you do, would you be interested in helping me get a cyndaquil? Kinda wanted to also train one.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Well, if you do, would you be interested in helping me get a cyndaquil? Kinda wanted to also train one.


... How? I dont own the game yet. My newest Pokemon game is Pokemon Sun  :Small Frown:

----------


## DaOldeWolf

> ... How? I dont own the game yet. My newest Pokemon game is Pokemon Sun


No, I mean if you decide to buy it, would you like to help me?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I like how Pokemon Arceus uses three different starters from three different generations even though I don't have the game and a Nintendo Switch.

----------


## NeoVid

Legends has me thinking it'll be the first Pokémon game I've played seriously since Gen 2, thanks to finally implementing a feature I've been wanting since the original Safari Zone: Stealth takedowns.  Being able to bait a mon, sneak up on it and capture it instantly without having to hurt it first sounds like something I'd have a ton of fun failing at.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> No, I mean if you decide to buy it, would you like to help me?


Ill gladly help if I ever buy the game. Not interested in Cyndaquill myself anyway lol

----------


## Kantaki

> Legends has me thinking it'll be the first Pokémon game I've played seriously since Gen 2, thanks to finally implementing a feature I've been wanting since the original Safari Zone: Stealth takedowns.  Being able to bait a mon, sneak up on it and capture it instantly without having to hurt it first sounds like something I'd have a ton of fun failing at.


Legends is basically "How the Wild Area should've worked: The Game."

Really there's so much in this game they should use in the main games.
Great open world, less "rigid" battles*, a Pokédex you have to work for, maybe the crafting, the ability to say more than "yes" and "no" :Small Tongue: ...

*Still turnbased, but more flexible?/dynamic?/tactical? One of those words anyway.

----------


## LaZodiac

If Legends does well it'll likely be the new normal going forward. It IS a mainline pokemon game.

----------


## Rater202

There are items that let you evolve trade only Pokemon without having to trade them, and there are no version exclusives because there's only one version.

Now if NPC trades are abandoned as a concept, that would mean that you can *finally* catch'em all. You don't have to have other people catch them for you or rely on trade-back cheese.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> If Legends does well it'll likely be the new normal going forward. It IS a mainline pokemon game.


I haven't bought a pokemon game since I canceled my Sword order. if this is true, I'll have to watch at least some of a playthrough to see if its good.

----------


## LaZodiac

> There are items that let you evolve trade only Pokemon without having to trade them, and there are no version exclusives because there's only one version.
> 
> Now if NPC trades are abandoned as a concept, that would mean that you can *finally* catch'em all. You don't have to have other people catch them for you or rely on trade-back cheese.


NPC trades are abandoned as a concept and you can in fact catch them all in this.

----------


## MCerberus

So since the pokedex is completable, the pokedex is RAPABLE

*shines the Weird Al signal*

----------


## Lord Raziere

> So since the pokedex is completable, the pokedex is RAP-ABLE
> 
> *shines the Weird Al signal*


But since its like, two centuries ago, wouldn't be more of a long epic poem set to classical music? 

like pokemon names sung to the tune of Ode to Joy or something.

Edit: No wait, a patter song in the style of Gilbert and sullivan

----------


## MCerberus

> But since its like, two centuries ago, wouldn't be more of a long epic poem set to classical music? 
> 
> like pokemon names sung to the tune of Ode to Joy or something.
> 
> Edit: No wait, a patter song in the style of Gilbert and sullivan


Found in a previously neglected cave in the Delphi complex - "And he yelled, as the great Eagle of Zeus so as all could hear. 'Are you guys up for the pokerap?'"

edit - I'm about 3 stars and 2 story missions in. 

So far this is everything people have been telling gamefreak they wanted, and wow is it shaking up the formula in ways that can mean some spicy things down the road. Anyone notice how the new battle system would be the perfect change they would need to make to, say, have battles in spaces shared by multiple players?

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> NPC trades are abandoned as a concept and you can in fact catch them all in this.


About time.




> Found in a previously neglected cave in the Delphi complex - "And he yelled, as the great Eagle of Zeus so as all could hear. 'Are you guys up for the pokerap?'"


 :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Rater202

So according to Legends Arceus, all pokemon have the power to shrink to incredibly small size.

This is apparently how Pokeballs worked before computers and digitization was a thing.

----------


## Spore

Is this actual lore or just conjecture from your gameplay?

A computer shrinking pokemon is as much fiction as a some mystical wooden orb. One is just fantasy, and the other science fiction.

----------


## Rater202

> Is this actual lore or just conjecture from your gameplay?


It's "the guy who gives you your pokeballs during the tutorial says it explicitly."

And he's "something of a Pokemon Professor."

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> So according to Legends Arceus, all pokemon have the power to shrink to incredibly small size.
> 
> This is apparently how Pokeballs worked before computers and digitization was a thing.


I want an anime season where they don't use pokéballs now. The main character just has this backpack with a  bunch of tiny Pokémon in it. Sometimes he'll check up on them and they'll be eating chewing on his pencils or tearing into his lunch, sometimes they'll stick their head out of the bag to see what's going on. In fact, why not just have at least one tiny mon riding your shoulder at any time? Or on a smaller bigger pokémon. Tyranitar flying around on Pidgey. Pikachu carying Onix and Gyarados.

If they're going to do cute anyway, do it well.

----------


## Razade

> Is this actual lore or just conjecture from your gameplay?
> 
> A computer shrinking pokemon is as much fiction as a some mystical wooden orb. One is just fantasy, and the other science fiction.


It's outright said by the Professor and a handful of other characters, major NPCs and minor.

----------


## MCerberus

Considering exp share, does that mean your entire party is conscious inside of the blank void but merely very tiny the entire time?

----------


## LaZodiac

> Considering exp share, does that mean your entire party is conscious inside of the blank void but merely very tiny the entire time?


We know from Pokemon Black and White that pokeballs are definitely fully furnished inside. It's fine.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> We know from Pokemon Black and White that pokeballs are definitely fully furnished inside. It's fine.


My new headcanon is that is that new tech is much the same as the old tech but better and with space-warping capabilities, and that pokeballs are basically as you say. the boxes of a PC don't actually have pokemon in them, they're just connections to the pokemon on some ranch or pocket dimension or whatever that get space-warped to you when you switch them around.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> the boxes of a PC don't actually have pokemon in them, they're just connections to the pokemon on some ranch or pocket dimension or whatever that get space-warped to you when you switch them around.


So basically Professor Oaks place in the anime.

----------


## MCerberus

> We know from Pokemon Black and White that pokeballs are definitely fully furnished inside. It's fine.


I'd like to make sure this gets expanded to Legends, where the quick crafting is just a gameplay thing and part of the process of carving the apricots is to carve out tiny terrariums.

----------


## Qwertystop

> I'd like to make sure this gets expanded to Legends, where the quick crafting is just a gameplay thing and part of the process of carving the apricots is to carve out tiny terrariums.


Well, in gen 2 it takes all day to make them, so "the crafting takes a while" does seem to be canon. Though on the other hand Kurt probably has commissions from other people, and the remakes changed that regardless.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Well, in gen 2 it takes all day to make them, so "the crafting takes a while" does seem to be canon. Though on the other hand Kurt probably has commissions from other people, and the remakes changed that regardless.


It's also worth noting that his commissioned are artisanal, hand crafted things that also look and resemble modern pokeballs.

the pokeballs you craft in Pokemon Legends look like thrown together wooden prototypes. Still impressive, but way easier to chop together.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*finally gets Pokemon Legends Arceus*

*plays it for a couple hours*

my conclusion: I have just bought a third monster hunter game

----------


## MCerberus

In my nightmares I am measuring Buizels.

----------


## Spore

> So according to Legends Arceus, all pokemon have the power to shrink to incredibly small size.
> 
> This is apparently how Pokeballs worked before computers and digitization was a thing.





> In my nightmares I am measuring Buizels.


Is there a Buizel in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?  :Small Cool:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Would you rather battle a team of pokéball sized Wailords, or one Wailord sized pokéball?

----------


## Silvaria

Thats a mean way to refer to the noble Lord Electrode

----------


## Burley

I just wanted to gush on Pokemon Legends.

I remember borrowing Pokemon Blue from my cousin for a weekend. I remember jumping up and down, shrieking like Zubat when I opened up Pokemon Yellow at Christmas. I waited in line for Silver and, a decade later, waiting in line for Heart Gold. 

Pokemon Legends is exactly what my child mind imagined while I was playing the old games. Hiding in grass, looking for Pokemon, ANY Pokemon. I wasn't trying to build a team for late game; I was exploring. 

Here's a list of all the things Legends improved on that I think about constantly:
No more running shoes, because I have a running deer.
No more item finder, because I have a bear.
No more flashing screen with the same MIDI sting before every single combat. 
Ledges aren't completely one-way and I later get a weasel for that. 
Filling my Pokedex matters for more than getting Flash. 
I can fly back to heal my Pokemon at the very beginning of the game, and not 5/8s of the way through. 
Legends restates that Pokemon have the ability to shrink down to a very small size, which is why they fit in Pokeballs and why they shrink when they faint. (I had forgotten for years that this ability is why they're called Pocket Monsters.)

One last thing: I find myself calling my Pokemon out at camp or in town. I congratulate them after a hard victory. I introduce the party to new team mates. I even have certain ones stand next to each other because they've been working together so long and they start "talking" to each other (auto-facing). 


It's just fun and fantastic, like it used to be. I don't worry about stats or EV training or about keeping my entire party at the same level, since pretty much everything faints in one hit, anyway.

----------


## Celestia

Legends Arceus final boss:
*Spoiler*
Show

So, I've been seeing a lot of comments from all over the web about the Volo/Giratina fight, and I have just one question: Am I way better at this game than I assumed, or does everyone else just suck? I beat this fight first try with only one of my Pokémon getting knocked out, but I've heard plenty of stories from other people going in with higher level Pokémon than I did and still losing multiple times. I mean, I thought the fight was cool, but it wasn't hard. *shrug*

----------


## LaZodiac

> Legends Arceus final boss:
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> So, I've been seeing a lot of comments from all over the web about the Volo/Giratina fight, and I have just one question: Am I way better at this game than I assumed, or does everyone else just suck? I beat this fight first try with only one of my Pokémon getting knocked out, but I've heard plenty of stories from other people going in with higher level Pokémon than I did and still losing multiple times. I mean, I thought the fight was cool, but it wasn't hard. *shrug*


*Spoiler*
Show


What pokemon was your team?

Also that isn't the final boss of the game  :Small Wink:

----------


## Celestia

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> What pokemon was your team?
> 
> Also that isn't the final boss of the game


*Spoiler*
Show

Hisuian Decidueye, Gardevoir, Gastrodon, Crobat, Hisuian Goodra, Umbreon. 

Eh, Arceus is a bonus extra boss. Volo is the end of the story.

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

It'll be a... While before I can have opinions about final bosses. My game got soft locked because I caught Cresselia before being told to catch Cresselia, and now cannot progress because there's no Cresselia to catch, and I didn't realize it in time to fix it.

So I'm warning you now, friends don't let friends catch Cresselia unprompted.

----------


## Celestia

> It'll be a... While before I can have opinions about final bosses. My game got soft locked because I caught Cresselia before being told to catch Cresselia, and now cannot progress because there's no Cresselia to catch, and I didn't realize it in time to fix it.
> 
> So I'm warning you now, friends don't let friends catch Cresselia unprompted.


Didn't the recent patch fix that bug?

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> Didn't the recent patch fix that bug?


My game is fully up to date. From what I can find the only fix available right now is to have realized what was happening soon enough to reload to a backup save. Apparently this is a side effect of a previous bug fix to stop the same scenario from just spawning a second Cresselia?

----------


## boj0

Well, the graphics of gen 9 look...dated; but the scale of everything gives me hope for a more vast, immersive region. Also, going back to colors for names is a neat choice after 12 years.

----------


## LaZodiac

A link to the trailer for those curious.

I for one love it. Cute cat, apple gator, and a duck that will get a katana are good choices for starter!

----------


## MCerberus

If the names leaked by Serebii are correct, we've got Latin influence instead of Helenic. That means we're going to Poke-Italy or an off-shot of Poke-Spain.

----------


## Saambell

> If the names leaked by Serebii are correct, we've got Latin influence instead of Helenic. That means we're going to Poke-Italy or an off-shot of Poke-Spain.


What I have seen of the map looks very Spain to me. Unless they made poke-italy a square.

----------


## Celestia

Wait, what? Gen 9? _This year?_ That's too soon. I _really_ wish Gamefreak would stop pumping out new generations like clockwork and actually take their time to make sure the games are good. This just looks like SwSh but more, and that's not a good thing. I currently have no hype. I actually liked that live action bit more than the actual trailer. That was fun.

----------


## ben-zayb

> Wait, what? Gen 9? _This year?_ That's too soon. I _really_ wish Gamefreak would stop pumping out new generations like clockwork and actually take their time to make sure the games are good. This just looks like SwSh but more, and that's not a good thing. I currently have no hype. I actually liked that live action bit more than the actual trailer. That was fun.


SwSh was three years ago, though. Arceus isn't mainline so the timeline matches up with the gap between previous gens.

If they can BotW this new mainline game, I'm all for it.

----------


## Rater202

> SwSh was three years ago, though. Arceus isn't mainline so the timeline matches up with the gap between previous gens.
> 
> If they can BotW this new mainline game, I'm all for it.


Arceus _is_ mainline. Explicitly. The devs said so.

----------


## Celestia

So far, the only good thing I can say about this new generation is that maybe this will finally get people to stop harping on about the "fire starters are the Chinese zodiac" thing as if it were canon even though it has never even made sense. Fennekin isn't a dog. Cyndaquil isn't a mouse. Feucoco is very definitely not a snake.


Beyond that, I've never been more worried about a new game. Pokémon has spent the past 25 years making basically the same game. They've convinced us all that minor gimmicks are major improvements. But then they made a monkey paw wish with Legends Arceus. It was wildly successful, but now that they've made a game with _actual_ improvements and innovation, they can never go back. If Gen 9 isn't as good or better than Legends Arceus, it will be abysmally terrible, even if it's good compared to ShSw. And I just don't think Gamefreak cares enough to put that much effort in.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Oh, cool Generation 9 Pokemon. How intriguing.  :Smile:

----------


## Celestia

https://nintendosoup.com/pokemon-vio...e-core-series/

Well, so far so good. Maybe I was wrong, and Gen 9 will be at least as good as Legends Arceus. That would be nice. I desperately want the games to be good. I want to love Pokémon and have fun.

----------


## ben-zayb

> Arceus _is_ mainline. Explicitly. The devs said so.


Looks like it is. Then, ignore that part explicitly, but it's still the case of three or so years between generations since Gen 5. 
It isn't too soon.

----------


## Spore

> So far, the only good thing I can say about this new generation is that maybe this will finally get people to stop harping on about the "fire starters are the Chinese zodiac" thing as if it were canon even though it has never even made sense. Fennekin isn't a dog. Cyndaquil isn't a mouse. Feucoco is very definitely not a snake.
> 
> 
> Beyond that, I've never been more worried about a new game. Pokémon has spent the past 25 years making basically the same game. They've convinced us all that minor gimmicks are major improvements. But then they made a monkey paw wish with Legends Arceus. It was wildly successful, but now that they've made a game with _actual_ improvements and innovation, they can never go back. If Gen 9 isn't as good or better than Legends Arceus, it will be abysmally terrible, even if it's good compared to ShSw. And I just don't think Gamefreak cares enough to put that much effort in.


I like your take but I feel fanboys are so indoctrinated at this point they'll buy everything. As well as parents, since Pokemon is a surefire good gift. And taking aside the fact that good Pokemon games NEED to be mainline games, I feel Mystery Dungeon showed that Pokemon can go great and then continue to be mediocre.

----------


## Celestia

> Looks like it is. Then, ignore that part explicitly, but it's still the case of three or so years between generations since Gen 5. 
> It isn't too soon.


Just because it's been standard practice for a decade doesn't mean it's good. Three years is absolutely too soon; it always has been. It was a major problem in the past three generations, as well. That is, in fact, one of the biggest reasons why those games have all been such disappointments.

----------


## Lord Raziere

......this gen might actually make go grass starter rather than choose fire type again, because kitty. kitty is cute, the other two just look silly to me.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Color name choices are interesting; I couldnt figure out what the contrast was until I realized they were on opposite ends of the visible light spectrum.

----------


## Saambell

> Color name choices are interesting; I couldnt figure out what the contrast was until I realized they were on opposite ends of the visible light spectrum.


While also being shades of Red and Blue for the older fans, cause this series will never be able to move past constant call backs to Gen 1, even though their target audience will never understand what the call backs are. That's the thing I find I dislike most about Pokemon games, they can never figure out WHO their actual target is. They are all clearly designed for kids who Pokemon is their first big intro to JRPGs. But they are also stuffed to the brim with stuff referencing or building on older games that those kids will likely never play, all to keep their older players around. Who are mostly nearing 40 if they grew up playing Pokemon Red and Blue as that target audience. They are torn between drawing in new fans with the designs and gameplay, but keeping the older fans around with constant references. 

I also have issues with the games constantly being built for Singles when playing the story, but them constantly pushing doubles for official gameplay tournaments, and trying to cripple singles with online features. But that's not something most people here care for. And its something I have mostly moved past anyway. 

On a slightly more outdated note, as someone who likes Monster Hunter, but hated Breath of the Wild, how worth it is Legends:Arceus? Was thinking of picking it up a few paydays from now once I get my bills payed, but after my distaste of Breath of the Wild I am worried that Nintendo made Open World games aren't my thing.

----------


## ben-zayb

Based on the buildings and the in-game map, other fansites report that the region will be based off of Spain. Any guesses on what Spanish references GF will add on a Pokemon? Maybe a regional Tauros or a wine-themed 'mon?




> Just because it's been standard practice for a decade doesn't mean it's good. Three years is absolutely too soon; it always has been. It was a major problem in the past three generations, as well. That is, in fact, one of the biggest reasons why those games have all been such disappointments.


It's not too soon based on GameFreak's expected schedule pattern, is what I'm saying. It's more of an educated estimate based on historical data than anything else subjective.

Saying all the gen 6-8 games were disappointments mostly due to having only three years to develop is more of a personal take, which I don't find to be the case at all. Were three years of developmental cycles too soon for Gen 2 or Gen 3? You did claim 3 years being to soon has always been the case. Do you find Gen 4 and Gen 5 games to be great, good enough, or barely just above disappointing? They had development cycles longer than the rest (about a third more), but I'm not sure how longer you think would make for a good game. PLA, which as Rater pointed out was a mainline game, was released 2 years after SwSh. You don't seem to be disappointed by it, despite having painted a broad stroke on _all_ Gen 6-8 games. 

If anything, PLA showed GF can make improvements on the same failed concept (open world) in a shorter period if they put effort, attention, and resources to it. The goodwill GF earned with PLA is what makes me excited for Gen 9.




> Color name choices are interesting; I couldnt figure out what the contrast was until I realized they were on opposite ends of the visible light spectrum.


Light is very much featured in the trailer. You may be onto something here. Alternatively, maybe they're the more fancy or marketable title for what would have been Pokemon Infrared and Pokemon Ultraviolet in the drawing board, which is kind of the opposite of visible light.

----------


## Celestia

> ......this gen might actually make go grass starter rather than choose fire type again, because kitty. kitty is cute, the other two just look silly to me.


I didn't like the crocodile pepper at first glance, but it's grown on me. I definitely do not like dumb hat ducklett, though. We really don't need more water type duck Pokémon. 




> While also being shades of Red and Blue for the older fans, cause this series will never be able to move past constant call backs to Gen 1, even though their target audience will never understand what the call backs are. That's the thing I find I dislike most about Pokemon games, they can never figure out WHO their actual target is. They are all clearly designed for kids who Pokemon is their first big intro to JRPGs. But they are also stuffed to the brim with stuff referencing or building on older games that those kids will likely never play, all to keep their older players around. Who are mostly nearing 40 if they grew up playing Pokemon Red and Blue as that target audience. They are torn between drawing in new fans with the designs and gameplay, but keeping the older fans around with constant references. 
> 
> I also have issues with the games constantly being built for Singles when playing the story, but them constantly pushing doubles for official gameplay tournaments, and trying to cripple singles with online features. But that's not something most people here care for. And its something I have mostly moved past anyway.


{Scrubbed}Why was the ace Pokémon of the Gen 8 champion Scrubbed_Charizard_ rather than, oh I don't know, a Gen 8 Pokémon? Why did the Kanto starters get mega evolutions but not the starters of the generation that introduced mega evolution? It's awful.

In this case, though. So far, this doesn't seem bad. A lot of fans are hypothesizing that these games are intended to be soft reboots of the franchise, and if that's true, then a name only reference to the first games is perfectly fine. I just hope it doesn't go further than that.




> On a slightly more outdated note, as someone who likes Monster Hunter, but hated Breath of the Wild, how worth it is Legends:Arceus? Was thinking of picking it up a few paydays from now once I get my bills payed, but after my distaste of Breath of the Wild I am worried that Nintendo made Open World games aren't my thing.


Well that entirely depends on what you didn't like about Breath of the Wild, I suppose.




> It's not too soon based on GameFreak's expected schedule pattern, is what I'm saying. It's more of an educated estimate based on historical data than anything else subjective.
> 
> Saying all the gen 6-8 games were disappointments mostly due to having only three years to develop is more of a personal take, which I don't find to be the case at all. Were three years of developmental cycles too soon for Gen 2 or Gen 3? You did claim 3 years being to soon has always been the case. Do you find Gen 4 and Gen 5 games to be great, good enough, or barely just above disappointing? They had development cycles longer than the rest (about a third more), but I'm not sure how longer you think would make for a good game. PLA, which as Rater pointed out was a mainline game, was released 2 years after SwSh. You don't seem to be disappointed by it, despite having painted a broad stroke on _all_ Gen 6-8 games. 
> 
> If anything, PLA showed GF can make improvements on the same failed concept (open world) in a shorter period if they put effort, attention, and resources to it. The goodwill GF earned with PLA is what makes me excited for Gen 9.


Gens 2 and 3 were much smaller, simpler games. It makes sense that they'd be able to do more with the same amount of time. Gen 4 was meh. Gen 5 was the best Pokémon generation. (And before you jump to conclusions, because I know you will, no this is not me saying that Gen 5 was perfect or flawless. It had problems; it was just the best generation despite said problems.)

I did not say mostly. I said it's one of the biggest problems, not that it's the only problem or even the main problem. There are many problems with Pokémon.

Legends Arceus is a good, fun game. Is it perfect? No. Is it amazing? No. Is it great? No. It's just good. The core gameplay loop is fun. Filling out the Pokédex actually felt like a worthwhile, rewarding experience for once in the past two and half decades. The world was actually interesting to explore for more than twenty seconds. I appreciate the effort and innovation, but it was not a mind blowing masterpiece. The only reason it even receives a positive reception from me is because Gamefreak has lowered the bar so far that a game that compares poorly to the GameCube era is somehow the best mainline game in the franchise's entire history. My respect for the company is virtually non-existent at this point, and Legends Arceus only bought enough goodwill to earn a few moments of consideration. I love Pokémon. It is my favorite franchise. I want nothing more than to see it succeed and release objectively amazing games. But Gamefreak's history has shown that that will probably never happen.

----------


## TaiLiu

> A lot of fans are hypothesizing that these games are intended to be soft reboots of the franchise, and if that's true, then a name only reference to the first games is perfectly fine. I just hope it doesn't go further than that.


Kinda like _Black_ and _White_, right? That bodes wellthe whole "new Pokédex" thing worked out really well for those games.

----------


## Celestia

> Kinda like _Black_ and _White_, right? That bodes wellthe whole "new Pokédex" thing worked out really well for those games.


Well, we've already seen old Pokémon, so that's out also, I guarantee you this generation will add exactly 94 Pokémon, so it wouldn't be enough to fill a full region, anyways.

Still, I do hope these games are like Black and White in more than one way. And actually commit to the reboot idea. Retrospectively, Black and White have more similarities to gens 1-4 than it does to gens 6-8.

----------


## Saambell

> Scrub the quote Why was the ace Pokémon of the Gen 8 champion  Scrub the quote _Charizard_ rather than, oh I don't know, a Gen 8 Pokémon? Why did the Kanto starters get mega evolutions but not the starters of the generation that introduced mega evolution? It's awful.


What stands out to me mostly of the "why the gen 1 references" is the inclusion of Red and Green at the battle tree in Gen 7. Like, by that time the Gen 3 remakes were most of a decade old, and kids would have zero context for who these guys are, and why they should care. It existed purely as a massive call back to gen 1, which would be totally lost on anyone under 20. At most you could claim it was more of a HGSS call back, but we all know exactly which game they were aiming for. 




> Well that entirely depends on what you didn't like about Breath of the Wild, I suppose.


Honestly, the controls. I barely scraped the surface of the game, having barely left the tutorial area, but I was constantly annoyed by the stupid clunky controls. Like 3 different menu buttons, some of which don't even access the same menu as the others. Link controlling like a drunk semi-truck, with so many actions useful for fights tied to needing 3+ buttons pressed in rapid succession, when I lack quick response and dexterity. It was just a nightmare to play, and I had yet to actually get to the "real" game, which of course means a jump in challenge, and I had no sign that I was going to be able to handle it. 

Luckily it was borrowed from my brother, not an actual personal purchase, and I can just borrow it again if I really get the itch to try again. But as long as Pokemon Legends: Arceus doesn't have as many control/menu issues as BotW, I might be tempted to try it. And I can also get it cheaper then normal due to work discount, but if its too close to BotW in the stated ways, I guess its a lot smarter to skip.

----------


## Qwertystop

Regarding the titles, an older (not current) Spanish flag was a red-yellow-purple tricolor; since it's a Spain-inspired region, that might be relevant.

----------


## Celestia

> What stands out to me mostly of the "why the gen 1 references" is the inclusion of Red and Green at the battle tree in Gen 7. Like, by that time the Gen 3 remakes were most of a decade old, and kids would have zero context for who these guys are, and why they should care. It existed purely as a massive call back to gen 1, which would be totally lost on anyone under 20. At most you could claim it was more of a HGSS call back, but we all know exactly which game they were aiming for. 
> 
> 
> Honestly, the controls. I barely scraped the surface of the game, having barely left the tutorial area, but I was constantly annoyed by the stupid clunky controls. Like 3 different menu buttons, some of which don't even access the same menu as the others. Link controlling like a drunk semi-truck, with so many actions useful for fights tied to needing 3+ buttons pressed in rapid succession, when I lack quick response and dexterity. It was just a nightmare to play, and I had yet to actually get to the "real" game, which of course means a jump in challenge, and I had no sign that I was going to be able to handle it. 
> 
> Luckily it was borrowed from my brother, not an actual personal purchase, and I can just borrow it again if I really get the itch to try again. But as long as Pokemon Legends: Arceus doesn't have as many control/menu issues as BotW, I might be tempted to try it. And I can also get it cheaper then normal due to work discount, but if its too close to BotW in the stated ways, I guess its a lot smarter to skip.


I have no idea what you're talking about; I thought Breath of the Wild controlled fine. Regardless, though, Legends Arceus is very different in that regard. Most of what you need is on screen at all times, so you rarely ever need to menu. Even in battle, you can switch Pokémon and throw balls without ever opening the menu.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

*Spoiler: Ooh, headcanon for the new starters! (Spoilered because everything about unreleased games is usually spoilered)*
Show



The duck is or becomes a water-flying type (very plausible), the happy croc becomes a fire-ground type kaiju thingie (reasonable guess, but far from the only one) and the cat becomes grass-electric type (complete ass-pull on my part), so they have an extra interesting type dynamic between them.

Also, the region looks... last gen as far as render detail goes, if that's a thing you care about, but nice. Seems to be based on Spain, judging by the Southern Europeanish vibe, the square map shape we're partially shown and the Sagrada Familia-ish looking building. I wouldn't have minded a different continent, but it looks nice. I might actually start hunting for a cheap switch if this pans out, depending on loads and loads of factors.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

So, like, are we going to abbreviate the two games as Scar/let?   :Small Tongue: 




> Based on the buildings and the in-game map, other fansites report that the region will be based off of Spain. Any guesses on what Spanish references GF will add on a Pokemon? Maybe a regional Tauros or a wine-themed 'mon?


I saw windmills in the intro, so there's probably gonna be some form of Don Quixote expy.  Part of me thinks it'd be cool if the Swords of Justice were regional varianted into aspects of that story, as kind of a literary pun.

...And thinking of regional foods, I am not certain if I want Sprigatito to evolve into a Taco Cat.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I like how Pokemon is very diverse with so many real-world references.  :Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

If it is Poke-spain I will be disappointed if their version of the El Cid historical character doesn't make it in

----------


## Rater202

> So, like, are we going to abbreviate the two games as Scar/let?  
> 
> 
> I saw windmills in the intro, so there's probably gonna be some form of Don Quixote expy.  Part of me thinks it'd be cool if the Swords of Justice were regional varianted into aspects of that story, as kind of a literary pun.
> 
> ...And thinking of regional foods, I am not certain if I want Sprigatito to evolve into a Taco Cat.


A taco cat would be Poke-Mexico, note Pokespain

...I am now imagining a pokemon similar to wurmple where you have a larval form that evolves into one of two cacoon middle forms resulting in widely divergent final forms... But instead of a bug it's a living food type pokemon and the middle form's cocoon is a tortilla. Whether it's a corn tortilla or a flour tortilla determines the final form.

the base form is a pile of meat, cheese, and spices, the middle form is one of two burritos, and the final form is either a plate of nacho supreme or a fully loaded taco depending on corn or flour.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Well, we've already seen old Pokémon, so that's out also, I guarantee you this generation will add exactly 94 Pokémon, so it wouldn't be enough to fill a full region, anyways.


Oh, I missed that! That's too bad. It's been a bit since we did the whole new Pokémon only thing.




> Still, I do hope these games are like Black and White in more than one way. And actually commit to the reboot idea. Retrospectively, Black and White have more similarities to gens 1-4 than it does to gens 6-8.


Yeah, fingers crossed that the story's just as robust as _Black_ and _White_.

----------


## MCerberus

> A taco cat would be Poke-Mexico, note Pokespain
> 
> ...I am now imagining a pokemon similar to wurmple where you have a larval form that evolves into one of two cacoon middle forms resulting in widely divergent final forms... But instead of a bug it's a living food type pokemon and the middle form's cocoon is a tortilla. Whether it's a corn tortilla or a flour tortilla determines the final form.
> 
> the base form is a pile of meat, cheese, and spices, the middle form is one of two burritos, and the final form is either a plate of nacho supreme or a fully loaded taco depending on corn or flour.


So if we take the anime into consideration with Lycanroc, it means that we'd have a Gordita Form presumably with fire sauce.

{Scrubbed}

----------


## Rater202

> So if we take the anime into consideration with Lycanroc, it means that we'd have a Gordita Form presumably with fire sauce.
> 
> {scrub the post, scrub the quote}


The truth is simpler: There's a region in northern Mexico where conditions aren't good for corn but wheat took well to the area, and people made tortillas out of what was available.

----------


## MCerberus

> The truth is simpler: There's a region in northern Mexico where conditions aren't good for corn but wheat took well to the area, and people made tortillas out of what was available.


And that's how we get a pokemon with the Gordita Forme

----------


## Qwertystop

> {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}


{Scrubbed}

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> A taco cat would be Poke-Mexico, note Pokespain.


D'oh, my apologies if that offended anyone.  Would Poke-Siesta be too much of a stretch for a campground/poke-refresh analog?

----------


## Celestia

Now we just need a generation to introduce a grass crocodile starter, a fire turtle starter, and a water cat starter; and then the trinity of trinities will be complete.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> So, like, are we going to abbreviate the two games as Scar/let?


I am in favor of this abbreviation.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Qwertystop

> Now we just need a generation to introduce a grass crocodile starter, a fire turtle starter, and a water cat starter; and then the trinity of trinities will be complete.


This makes three bird starters of different types, actually.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> This makes three bird starters of different types, actually.


that has actually already been achieved:
fire: Torchic
water: Piplup
grass: Rowlet

Rowlet beat Quaxly to the bird trinity punch two gens ago.

----------


## Celestia

> This makes three bird starters of different types, actually.


They're not the same birds, though. That is immensely unsatisfying. It's like cheating.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> They're not the same birds, though. That is immensely unsatisfying. It's like cheating.


How is that cheating?  :Confused:

----------


## LaZodiac

> They're not the same birds, though. That is immensely unsatisfying. It's like cheating.


The cat's aren't the same cats, either? Likewise the turtles.

----------


## MCerberus

> That doesn't track, there's nothing in kashrut about plant-based foods. Maybe for whether corn was chametz or knityot, but switching from corn to flour wouldn't actually help there regardless.


The world of food legends is a much more colorful, interesting place sometimes though. Even if it is 95% lies and exaggerations. The weird stories about food actually remind me of the in-game pokedex entries.

OT - I've actually been seeing some cross-talk from the SMT fandom hoping there's a Matador pokemon

----------


## boj0

Well, I've wanted a Tauros evo/form for years, so I might finally get my wish if we get a running of the bulls type nod.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> The cat's aren't the same cats, either? Likewise the turtles.


Sure, but there are like 10,000 species of birds, about twice as much as there are species of mammals. If we get to use groups that big then the mammals, the reptiles (including the new fire one) and even the amphibians maybe, depending on what Bulbasaur actually is, are all complete as well.

----------


## Emmerlaus

I saw rumors (and wonderful fanart) going around that the cat starter is going to evolve into a musketeer...

Im calling it: the name is going to be Muskkitty or Muskitteer LOL  :Small Tongue:

----------


## MCerberus

> I saw rumors (and wonderful fanart) going around that the cat starter is going to evolve into a musketeer...
> 
> Im calling it: the name is going to be Muskkitty or Muskitteer LOL


If that's the case we're back to Chickorita levels of "the correct starter"

----------


## LaZodiac

> Sure, but there are like 10,000 species of birds, about twice as much as there are species of mammals. If we get to use groups that big then the mammals, the reptiles (including the new fire one) and even the amphibians maybe, depending on what Bulbasaur actually is, are all complete as well.


I've completely lost track of this conversation. We were talking about how we've got three gens that do cat/bird/turtle of each element, right?




> I saw rumors (and wonderful fanart) going around that the cat starter is going to evolve into a musketeer...
> 
> Im calling it: the name is going to be Muskkitty or Muskitteer LOL


A cute idea! Each starter gets to be a sort of Spanish based fighter. Quaxly is Don Quixote the dumbass noble knight, Spigatito becomes a squave and cool matador, and Fuecoco becomes-

oh no

----------


## Celestia

> I saw rumors (and wonderful fanart) going around that the cat starter is going to evolve into a musketeer...
> 
> Im calling it: the name is going to be Muskkitty or Muskitteer LOL


The Three Musketeers is French, though.

----------


## boj0

That didn't stop them from introducing the Musketeer Trio/Quartet in the America region.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> That didn't stop them from introducing the Musketeer Trio/Quartet in the America region.


Yeah weve already got Musketeer Pokémon.

Not that thats stopped them before, of course.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Yeah weve already got Musketeer Pokémon.
> 
> Not that thats stopped them before, of course.


Yeah Quaxly is like the second starter water bird, and like the seventh duck pokemon in general.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I've completely lost track of this conversation. We were talking about how we've got three gens that do cat/bird/turtle of each element, right?


Crocodiles, turtles and cats, yes. Then someone compared that to birds, but birds are a big category, more comparable to mammals then to cats. And mammals also already have a complete set, as do reptiles and arguably amphibians. A much smaller sub-category of birds like chickens or ducks or crows or maybe raptors or ratites would be more comparable to the categories turtles, crocodiles and cats.

----------


## tonberrian

I'd also accept tortoise and alligator for completing the set.

----------


## NeoVid

> A cute idea! Each starter gets to be a sort of Spanish based fighter. Quaxly is Don Quixote the dumbass noble knight, Spigatito becomes a squave and cool matador, and Fuecoco becomes-
> 
> oh no


With the game being set in PokéSpain, I know some people are hoping there will be a reference to Resident Evil 4 in there somewhere.

----------


## Celestia

> With the game being set in PokéSpain, I know some people are hoping there will be a reference to Resident Evil 4 in there somewhere.


I would be genuinely shocked if Pokémon ever references Resident Evil. Don't count on it.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I would be genuinely shocked if Pokémon ever references Resident Evil. Don't count on it.


Speaking of Resident Evil. I wish there was a zombie Pokemon.

----------


## Celestia

> Speaking of Resident Evil. I wish there was a zombie Pokemon.


There are. They're called ghost types.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> There are. They're called ghost types.


Ok but none of them are zombies per se.  :Tongue:

----------


## Rater202

I did have an idea regarding a Poison/Ghost-type in the "garbage" family that was a bag of medical waste brought to life. Yu know, cast off limbs and cancerous organs. _Kind_ of a zombie.

Regarding Pokspain: A Pokemon based on Don Quixote must be somekind of hybrid of donkey and coyote.

A Donkoyote, if you will.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I did have an idea regarding a Poison/Ghost-type in the "garbage" family that was a bag of medical waste brought to life. Yu know, cast off limbs and cancerous organs. _Kind_ of a zombie.
> 
> Regarding Pokspain: A Pokemon based on Don Quixote must be somekind of hybrid of donkey and coyote.
> 
> A Donkoyote, if you will.


I have an idea of a zombie Pokemon myself. A Zombie Pokemon with a sword who I called Zomblade and their evolved form Zombiknight.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I did have an idea regarding a Poison/Ghost-type in the "garbage" family that was a bag of medical waste brought to life. Yu know, cast off limbs and cancerous organs. _Kind_ of a zombie.
> 
> Regarding Pokspain: A Pokemon based on Don Quixote must be somekind of hybrid of donkey and coyote.
> 
> A Donkoyote, if you will.


That's a pun that really only works in English. I appreciate it, but unlikely.

Quaxley is likely to be our Don Quixote, as an aside. The X in the name really gives it away.

----------


## Celestia

I hope Sprigatito evolves into a bipedal, sexy furry because it'd piss off so many people.

----------


## Spore

> I would be genuinely shocked if Pokémon ever references Resident Evil. Don't count on it.


Maybe the English translation team smuggles a few puns and memes into trainer dialogue, as is tradition since Gen 6?




> I hope Sprigatito evolves into a bipedal, sexy furry because it'd piss of so many people.


Yes, it would be so funny and sexy to see that-

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> Ok but none of them are zombies per se.


Hisuian Zoroark is _right there_.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Hisuian Zoroark is _right there_.


Still a ghost.

----------


## Rater202

Look, the vengeful ghosts of illusion foxes aren't zombies.

They're fluffy little spirits that need to be swaddled in blankets, cuddled, and spoonfed warm soup while telling them that you won't let them be hurt again.

----------


## Kantaki

Isn't Paras (and even more so its evolution) kinda zombie like?
Probably the closest we'll get at least.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Look, the vengeful ghosts of illusion foxes aren't zombies.
> 
> They're fluffy little spirits that need to be swaddled in blankets, cuddled, and spoonfed warm soup while telling them that you won't let them be hurt again.


I mean they're already dead so I don't think they can be hurt anymore?  also if they're ghosts, I don't think they need to eat. might appreciate the blanket though. ...maybe performing a few proper burial rites...

----------


## LaZodiac

> Isn't Paras (and even more so its evolution) kinda zombie like?
> Probably the closest we'll get at least.


You know what that's correct. Paras (sorta) and Parasect (absolutely) are in fact zombies!




> I mean they're already dead so I don't think they can be hurt anymore?  also if they're ghosts, I don't think they need to eat. might appreciate the blanket though. ...maybe performing a few proper burial rites...


Ghosts as semi-physical beings can still experience some degree of pain, and especially mental anguish. So swaddle them in warm comforting blankets. It's just polite.

----------


## MCerberus

Wrapping up a Hisuian Zoroark would end up 1 of 2 ways, according to the dex.

The first is a Looney Toons bit where the wrapped up baby keeps shredding people.
The other is
*Spoiler*
Show




edit - to be clear this is an endorsement of the plan

----------


## Celestia

> I mean they're already dead so I don't think they can be hurt anymore?  also if they're ghosts, I don't think they need to eat. might appreciate the blanket though. ...maybe performing a few proper burial rites...


In Japanese folklore, onryō, or vengeful spirits, are driven by pain, torment, and hatred towards not just the specific individuals who wronged them but towards all living beings. Their entire existence is suffering, and it's all they know. Realistically speaking, not only are Hisuian Zorua and Zoroark in constant pain, but the love and companionship of a trainer does literally nothing to ease them. They are incapable of joy.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> In Japanese folklore, onryō, or vengeful spirits, are driven by pain, torment, and hatred towards not just the specific individuals who wronged them but towards all living beings. Their entire existence is suffering, and it's all they know. Realistically speaking, not only are Hisuian Zorua and Zoroark in constant pain, but the love and companionship of a trainer does literally nothing to ease them. They are incapable of joy.


Well its a good thing neither Onryo or Hisuian Zoroark are real then, aren't they? so there is nothing to be *real*istic about, so we can be wrong as we want!

----------


## Rater202

*Spoiler: Look at Hisuian Zorua*
Show




Vengeful spirit does not look angry. Vengeful spirit looks sad.

Little floofer needs a hug, that's what it needs.

----------


## MCerberus

I'm going to risk it, for fluff.

The real challenge though is getting through to little dude's older sibling

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> also if they're ghosts, I don't think they need to eat.


Ghost Pokémon can eat Berries, Poffin, Pokéblocks, Lava Cookies, Old Gateau and probably a dozen other things Im not thinking of. I dont think it will be a problem.




> Little floofer needs a hug, that's what it needs.


Second this, and second endorsement of the plan. *pulls out pot* What kind of soup?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Hisuian Zoroark is _right there_.


I can see the resemblance of Hisuian Zoroark being a zombie.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

As someone that's not on the Legends Arceus wagon, I'm going to headcannon it that the advancements made in Massage and Soothe Bell technology made Hisuian Zoroark happy themselves into extinction.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Rater202

> Second this, and second endorsement of the plan. *pulls out pot* What kind of soup?


Okay, so Zorua most closely resembles a fennec and having looked up what kind of diets fennecs eat in captivity, it's looking like our best bet would be to start with a beef stock and then cook in assorted root vegetables and meaty chunks.

----------


## MCerberus

Picture relevant to topic at hand:

*Spoiler*
Show

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Okay, so Zorua most closely resembles a fennec and having looked up what kind of diets fennecs eat in captivity, it's looking like our best bet would be to start with a beef stock and then cook in assorted root vegetables and meaty chunks.


*checks* I have carrots and potatoes, let operation comfort food begin!  :Small Cool:

----------


## Spore

> As someone that's not on the Legends Arceus wagon, I'm going to headcannon it that the advancements made in Massage and Soothe Bell technology made Hisuian Zoroark happy themselves into extinction.


Or maybe....all those spiritualists and ghost catchers along with the vanishing beliefs in kami and other spirits made ghosts weak enough so they just vanished into the afterlife or all together.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Or maybe....all those spiritualists and ghost catchers along with the vanishing beliefs in kami and other spirits made ghosts weak enough so they just vanished into the afterlife or all together.


Or they all moved to Spain.

(we've seen "Hisuian" Zorua and Zoroark in pictures for Scarlet and Violet, and since Spain LOVES itself fox fur, they probably were hunted into ghosts)

----------


## Spore

¿Por qué no los dos?  :Small Smile:

----------


## danzibr

Suppose Ive never played any Pokémon game (other than Go). 

Question: whats the best (subjective, of course) order to play the games in?

Id prefer something like going through all the generations in order, with transferring data from one game to the next. I kinda doubt thats possible. I also dont care about chronology/remakes/whatever. I actually did get a ways into Lets Go Eevee recently, seems like a good place to start.

Thanks!

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Suppose Ive never played any Pokémon game (other than Go). 
> 
> Question: whats the best (subjective, of course) order to play the games in?
> 
> Id prefer something like going through all the generations in order, with transferring data from one game to the next. I kinda doubt thats possible. I also dont care about chronology/remakes/whatever. I actually did get a ways into Lets Go Eevee recently, seems like a good place to start.
> 
> Thanks!


If you want to properly enjoy Red/Blue/Yellow, do that one first. Then see where that leaves you.

At roughly gen 3 or 4 the games become, well, not completely interchangeable, but you'll enjoy enjoy the stuff each one has even if you've already played the later entries. Gen 1 and 2 a bit less so. There are things missing from those. They're still fun, but they're "so this is what it was like" fun. You've only got one chance to have that experience while still relatively unspoiled, so I'd start with a run of that.

As for "the best" games overall, I think White2/Black2 is a good contender, Platinum and Heartgold/Soulsilver as well. Although it might pay to actively invest in warming up to the newer games (gen 6+) too. They're not that bad if you can avoid having too many "it's not what I'm used to" gripes and grudges.

----------


## Qwertystop

If you wanted to transfer teams up from each game, the original versions of generation 1 and 2 can't, but the 3DS Virtual Console releases can transfer to... Well, it was Bank, but I suppose now it's Home, however that works out. Everything from generation 3 onward is capable of transferring up to games in the next generation, though for 3 to 4 you'll need a DS of a model that has GBA compatibility, for 4 to 5 you'll need two DS (or 3DS) systems, and I think for 5 to 6 and onward you need a paid subscription to the cloud storage. So at minimum, if not emulating the games, and skipping everything outside of the main line, you'd need a DS or DS Lite, a 3DS, and a Switch. But also, using original hardware would be extremely expensive, Pokemon games don't really get cheaper.

In all honesty, the remakes are more like the generation they're contemporary to than the one they're remaking in a lot of ways.

(I would also strongly recommend the two GameCube games, Colosseum and XD, they're very good. Not technically mainline, but more like them than any of the spinoffs, to the point of being compatible for battles and trades if you had the necessary connectors.)

----------


## Celestia

Here is a chart of how to transfer Pokémon from Gen 3 up to Gen 8.

As you can see, it is a complicated, multi-step process that requires purchasing (at minimum) six game, four consoles, and two services, most of which are now quite expensive on the second-hand market. I don't know how much it would cost, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's over a grand. It's really not worth it unless you already have everything. Next year, this process will become even more expensive as Bank is a download only service that will no longer be available as of April 2023, meaning you'll have to buy a 3DS that specifically already has it downloaded. And you can't even reduce these costs by using free ROMs as that'll eliminate the ability to transfer.

----------


## Qwertystop

Actually, if you stay entirely within emulators, I'm fairly sure uptransfers should work at least for gen 3-5. After that you'd need to get your emulator to impersonate real hardware well enough to connect to the actual Bank/Home servers, and/or set up fake servers of Bank and Home to connect your emulator and/or real (possibly modded, but softmodding the 3DS is a solved problem at this point) system to. Which is definitely possible, people have set up fanservers for the online functionality, but I don't know if anyone's done it for Bank or Home yet; companies tend to crack down harder on that kind of thing while they're still selling the official service, so people probably won't get to it until Bank's been completely gone for a while.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

There are programs to hack your savegames so you can add pokémon. Particularly if you're using emulators it's easy to bring an exact copy of your old pokémon to the next game, starting the moment you get your starter. You can even delevel the copy so you don't end up using a level 60 pokémon in the early game.

I don't know how well this works in gen 6 onwards, but for the earlier games these programs work fine*.

*=With the exception that gen 1 and 2 Pokémon simply cannot be copied over exactly to 3 and above because their stats work slightly differently.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I doubt that they're going to bring back Mega Pokemon in Generation 9.  :Frown:

----------


## Saambell

> I doubt that they're going to bring back Mega Pokemon in Generation 9.


I will place a good guess they aren't going to bring back Dynamax either. They seem to be doing a new mechanic each gen, and often removing the older one.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I will place a good guess they aren't going to bring back Dynamax either. They seem to be doing a new mechanic each gen, and often removing the older one.


I thought the Dynamax was doing pretty well so far in Generation 8.

----------


## Spore

> Suppose Ive never played any Pokémon game (other than Go). 
> 
> Question: whats the best (subjective, of course) order to play the games in?
> 
> Id prefer something like going through all the generations in order, with transferring data from one game to the next. I kinda doubt thats possible. I also dont care about chronology/remakes/whatever. I actually did get a ways into Lets Go Eevee recently, seems like a good place to start.


I would say Fire Red and Leaf Green on the Game Boy Advance honestly. The only thing you need to know here is that some types are always special attacks (Leaf Blade sounds like it uses Attack, but it actually uses Special Attack in Generation 3). But for a beginner, Let's Go is an esoteric starting point, but it is a starting point. Then you continue based on your resilience or want for forced ingame tutorials.

Personally I feel Pokemon Platinum is the perfect Pokemon game, in difficulty, size, explanation of mechanics and somewhat going through with them. The pokemon variety is good. The physical/special split made attacks care about more than just type (now Leaf Blade uses Attack even as a grass move!) and your villainous team/plot is actually somewhat threatening (if you excuse the fact that they are antagonized successfully by a 12 year old).

----------


## Celestia

> I would say Fire Red and Leaf Green on the Game Boy Advance honestly. The only thing you need to know here is that some types are always special attacks (Leaf Blade sounds like it uses Attack, but it actually uses Special Attack in Generation 3). But for a beginner, Let's Go is an esoteric starting point, but it is a starting point. Then you continue based on your resilience or want for forced ingame tutorials.
> 
> Personally I feel Pokemon Platinum is the perfect Pokemon game, in difficulty, size, explanation of mechanics and somewhat going through with them. The pokemon variety is good. The physical/special split made attacks care about more than just type (now Leaf Blade uses Attack even as a grass move!) and your villainous team/plot is actually somewhat threatening (if you excuse the fact that they are antagonized successfully by a 12 year old).


Hot take: Gen 4 kinda sucks in retrospect.

Mechanically, the game is slow as molasses. Everything is a tedious grind; moving, attacking, talking. The games are just slow. Sure, Platinum somewhat reduces this problem, but not enough. This problem is also not helped at all by certain areas. Mount Coronet is way too long and way too annoying to get through, even if you bathe yourself in repels, and the snow routes are absolute hell, literally the worst part of any Pokémon game. And the second worst part of any Pokémon game is the foggy areas. What'sthe third? The swamp, of course. Any game that contains the *three* worst aspects of the franchise can never be claimed to be "perfect."

The map layout blows chunks, constantly forcing you to backtrack over and over just to progress with very little guidance over where to go next, and the areas, themselves, are dull. The only routes in the game that are at all memorable are the ones with awful mechanics; the rest are all forgettable. The dungeons aren't much better. In fact, I can't even remember how many dungeons this game has.

You must be wearing extra thick nostalgia goggles if you're _praising_ the Sinnoh games for their variety, the region that very infamously only had one fire type family outside of the starter, with that one being _Ponyta._ And it wasn't just fire, either. The game had a distinct lack of viable mons as most Gen 4 Pokémon just sucked. There's a reason why, before the release of BDSP, people made so many jokes about how everyone's team would use the exact same six Pokémon: because that's what it was like in the originals. Platinum helped here, sure, but not by as much as everyone seems to falsely remember. Most Platinum additions can't even be obtained until mid-to-late game and/or required trade evolutions. Only a small handful were actually useful, like Houndoom.

The characters ranged from meh to awful. Sure, Cynthia was great, but who else? Cyrus was a whiny, emo, edgelord, less threatening and more annoying. The admins only barely had personalities and weren't interesting the the slightest. Barry was a dull non-entity who barely even classifies as a character. None of the gym leaders were fun or cool, and a couple were downright annoying. In the end, it's just Cynthia that's good, and that's not nearly enough to build a game out of.

The story was very weak, as well. Cyrus's motivations were laughably absurd, and Team Galactic was just dumb. The worst villains by far until Gen 6 dethroned them.

Honestly, the only compliment that I can actually give to the Sinnoh games is that they were quite challenging. Most of the gym leaders were pretty tough, and the Elite Four went hard. That's great. Unfortunately, that's not enough. On a ranking of all the generations, Gen 4 falls into the bottom half.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Honestly, the only compliment that I can actually give to the Sinnoh games is that they were quite challenging.


I enjoyed the mining minigame. To the point that if I tried to raise all the fossils I dug up, Id have run out of Box space even if the Box system had been empty to begin with.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> None of the gym leaders were fun or cool, and a couple were downright annoying.


Nah, definitely more cool than annoying.

The difficulty curve of the gym leaders is pretty good too, with the exception of the last one, who is a complete pushover compared to the obligatory Cyrus fight that comes before him.

----------


## Celestia

> I enjoyed the mining minigame. To the point that if I tried to raise all the fossils I dug up, Id have run out of Box space even if the Box system had been empty to begin with.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That was good. I spent so much time underground.

----------


## Taevyr

My recommendation would be SoulSilver, mostly due to heavy personal bias but still: Not quite that hard but also not too easy, good battle frontier, large post-game as you continue into the Kanto region, having your first pokémon literally following you around... It's nice. I put an enormous load of time in that one and Explorers of Sky. 

More objectively speaking, I'd say gen 5's the best (which is the "last" one I played, disregarding the sapphire remake). Stands perfectly well on its own, nice variety of pokémon, interesting story.

----------


## MCerberus

> The story was very weak, as well. Cyrus's motivations were laughably absurd, and Team Galactic was just dumb. The worst villains by far until Gen 6 dethroned them.


As an antagonist I would put "Guzma's Home for Wayward Edgelords" as a worse team, but gamefreak did pull a fun concept by having the ultimate bad guys being an inter-dimensional Legion of Doom

----------


## Lord Raziere

> As an antagonist I would put "Guzma's Home for Wayward Edgelords" as a worse team, but gamefreak did pull a fun concept by having the ultimate bad guys being an inter-dimensional Legion of Doom


I'd say Team Skull was great because it was laughably bad, they're like Jessie and James, sure they're completely ineffectual but they got heart to them. Everyone knows the teams are largely ineffectual so why not have one that leans into it and milks it to be its own unique identity? like I'd go further and make them the "good guy" anti-hero gang compared to any serious teams, because then you can tell the story of a bunch of ragtag Team Skull grunts starting off getting into a turf war with Team Rocket because they want to be tough, but as they go along they realize that Team Rocket are actual villains compared to them, so they start doing it to protect people.

----------


## Celestia

> As an antagonist I would put "Guzma's Home for Wayward Edgelords" as a worse team, but gamefreak did pull a fun concept by having the ultimate bad guys being an inter-dimensional Legion of Doom


Team Skull was awesome. Best team by far, and one of the few saving graces for Gen 7. Yes, they're incompetent idiots, but so are all the teams. Skull lampshades the concept in one of GameFreak's few moments on actual introspection. It's hilarious, and the game gets away with it by not having them be the actual big bads.

That's why Team Flare is just the worst. On top of looking dumb, they try to to the intentionally funny lampshade bit, but they're also supposed to be the serious endgame villains. That just doesn't work. Skull succeeded where Flare failed.

----------


## Rater202

I kind of like Team Yell.

Because you start out and they seem like Team Rocket Types... But then it turns out that they're not a national criminal organization, terrorist eco or otherwise, or anything else like that...

...they're just overzealous fanboys. When they say they just want Marnie to win they're being 100% truthful. And then you realize that... At most their actions are just being a public nuisance.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I kind of like Team Yell.
> 
> Because you start out and they seem like Team Rocket Types... But then it turns out that they're not a national criminal organization, terrorist eco or otherwise, or anything else like that...
> 
> ...they're just overzealous fanboys. When they say they just want Marnie to win they're being 100% truthful. And then you realize that... At most their actions are just being a public nuisance.


Eh. thats exactly what makes them worst team for me, below even Flare.

like Team Skull executed their comedic ineffectualness well, these guys don't even do that. Yell is just bad, because its the flimsiest reason in the world. like with Team Skull you at least had the whole thing about them failing the trials and washing out as pokemon trainer in a culture where those things are considered important, Yell is just dumb and makes me go "really?"

----------


## Rater202

> Eh. thats exactly what makes them worst team for me, below even Flare.
> 
> like Team Skull executed their comedic ineffectualness well, these guys don't even do that. Yell is just bad, because its the flimsiest reason in the world. like with Team Skull you at least had the whole thing about them failing the trials and washing out as pokemon trainer in a culture where those things are considered important, Yell is just dumb and makes me go "really?"


Keep in mind that their hometown is very obscure in-universe.  To the point that a few years ago their Gym almost got relocated to a different town, which would have made the town collapse entirely.

Having their hometown hero becomes the new champion even if they had to harass some kids on their gym challenge or set up a roadblock or too to do it was as much a desperate attempt to bring their dying town some relevance as it was a genuine desire to support her.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Keep in mind that their hometown is very obscure in-universe.  To the point that a few years ago their Gym almost got relocated to a different town, which would have made the town collapse entirely.
> 
> Having their hometown hero becomes the new champion even if they had to harass some kids on their gym challenge or set up a roadblock or too to do it was as much a desperate attempt to bring their dying town some relevance as it was a genuine desire to support her.


and look how much that made people care, oh wait it didn't make anyone care and Marnie improves Spikemuth without their help, and thus were completely unnecessary AND irrelevant. sucks to suck I guess.

----------


## Squire Doodad

> Hot take: Gen 4 kinda sucks in retrospect.
> 
> Honestly, the only compliment that I can actually give to the Sinnoh games is that they were quite challenging. Most of the gym leaders were pretty tough, and the Elite Four went hard. That's great. Unfortunately, that's not enough. On a ranking of all the generations, Gen 4 falls into the bottom half.


Platinum _substantially_ improves this in all regards except for Candice/Volkner/Flint's teams (which are more interesting in DP as they had to dip outside of the monotype build). Everything but HP dropping speeds feel acceptable, encounter variety is _far_ better, and instead of every goddamn cave and grassy area having the same tileset, you have Mt. Coronet, Iron Island, and the Battle Zone all having distinct mountain tiles. Not to mention the tile borders look solid for a DS game instead of hideous. There's those PC people, the Battlegrounds, Cyrus gets a few earlygame appearances and a spare battle, and so on - the story isn't dramatically improved, but the world is more alive and the plot is introduced to the player instead of suddenly dropped on their laps.
It still has some major flaws - namely, Honey Trees are a terrible mechanic and there's still a dozen mons that locked behind RNG portions, Cyrus's backstory is restricted to this one guy in the postgame, etc - but on the whole, Platinum is a great Pokemon game where DP are some of the worst. I have my gripes with it, but given that Pokemon in general has a lot of problems, Platinum does a good job of feeling like a competently put-together game.

HGSS, on the other hand, is a great remake except for the fact that it's based off of GSC, which has an atrocious level curve and doesn't make use of its own new Pokemon.
GSC is dreadfully unbalanced, HGSS is almost as bad. It expands on GSC beautifully, but doesn't fix its core problems which are absolutely terrible.

===



> Here is a chart of how to transfer Pokémon from Gen 3 up to Gen 8.
> 
> As you can see, it is a complicated, multi-step process that requires purchasing (at minimum) six game, four consoles, and two services, most of which are now quite expensive on the second-hand market. I don't know how much it would cost, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's over a grand. It's really not worth it unless you already have everything. Next year, this process will become even more expensive as Bank is a download only service that will no longer be available as of April 2023, meaning you'll have to buy a 3DS that specifically already has it downloaded. And you can't even reduce these costs by using free ROMs as that'll eliminate the ability to transfer.


Yeah, it's a huge mess to do all that.
That said, if you're using ROMs you could just use a save editor to "transfer" over Pokemon from one game to the next!

===
I would recommend Emerald or Platinum as a place to start, probably with a National Dex romhack or something that only moderately changes the game while enabling the player to access version exclusives.
G5 has a soft reboot style to it, but B2W2 is much more enjoyable if you've played at least one other generation as well as BW.

----------


## MCerberus

> Team Skull was awesome. Best team by far, and one of the few saving graces for Gen 7. Yes, they're incompetent idiots, but so are all the teams. Skull lampshades the concept in one of GameFreak's few moments on actual introspection. It's hilarious, and the game gets away with it by not having them be the actual big bads.
> 
> That's why Team Flare is just the worst. On top of looking dumb, they try to to the intentionally funny lampshade bit, but they're also supposed to be the serious endgame villains. That just doesn't work. Skull succeeded where Flare failed.


Yes, I do love them, but they are still the worst team. When it actually came to impact the story, Team Yell (because they were wrangled) actually had moments of competence. Skull failed to steal a bus stop and the krump'd about it.

Although if you think Skull was founded to just give outcast teens a place to belong then they may be actually successful.
edit - the real criminal organization are the friends we made along the way

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Yes, I do love them, but they are still the worst team. When it actually came to impact the story, Team Yell (because they were wrangled) actually had moments of competence. Skull failed to steal a bus stop and the krump'd about it.
> 
> Although if you think Skull was founded to just give outcast teens a place to belong then they may be actually successful.
> edit - the real criminal organization are the friends we made along the way


Doesn't Skull still occupy an entire town even after the credits roll?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Doesn't Skull still occupy an entire town even after the credits roll?


to be fair its less like they took it over, and more like they went there because it was abandoned. 

which is weird sure but there might be real world parallels, because Lockstin has done his research and the Sinnoh region is remarkably accurate to Hokkaido in many places. if we assume that all the other regions are designed with similar levels of detail and inspiration, there may be some reason provided by real life Hawaii why thats there.

----------


## MCerberus

> to be fair its less like they took it over, and more like they went there because it was abandoned.


"Youth group adopts blighted neighborhood"
See they're the good guys

----------


## Celestia

I took it to be more ghettoization. A bunch of delinquents started moving into the neighborhood, causing mischief and dropping property values, so everyone else moved out. The fact that Team Skull are literally the _only_ ones left is clearly just a fantastical exaggeration for the game.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah turns out I was wrong, I read the wiki to confirm and turns out they did drive everyone out of Po Town and vandalize the place, I don't know where I got the abandoned thing from, but their plans do seem to be nothing more than just....causing petty crimes and trying to make money to get by.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Question: whats the best (subjective, of course) order to play the games in?
> 
> Id prefer something like going through all the generations in order, with transferring data from one game to the next. I kinda doubt thats possible. I also dont care about chronology/remakes/whatever. I actually did get a ways into Lets Go Eevee recently, seems like a good place to start.


Well, with Let's Go, I'm calling that your Gen 1 experience.  I know that's not "fair" because the encounter mechanics and starter pokemon are all sorts of different, and there's a bit to say about the Sevii Islands of FRLG, but going from any title to the original Red/Blue is a whiplash, and I'm not gonna try to undo what's already been done.  So, with your Generation 2 pick, you're going to pick either Pokemon Crystal on the 3DS or HGSS.  For the time being, Crystal would be the easiest to get to a modern title, but for reasons similar to Let's Go, I would suggest HGSS.  If you've already experienced modern pokemon battles, Stadium 1 is entirely skippable as it's just battles only with Gen 1 battle mechanics and a few minigames.  There's a possibility of looking into Stadium 2 if only for the Challenge Cup and minigames, but it's again kind of lacking.  I liked Stadium 2's school, but a bit of it is obsolete now.

Gen 3, well, I'm lead to believe I'm in the minority here, but either of Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire would generally be my pick for where someone has never played a game in the series should start playing: Gets you the old style world design, modern attacks and typing mechanics, QR-Coded Super Secret Bases don't need online connectivity to play, XP share is optional, infinite TM use, Mega Evolutions, DexNav... I'll acknowledge they ain't perfect, but it's where I stand for a "Little bit of everything" pick.  At this point, if you want to include Pokemon Colosseum and XD Gale of Darkness, you would play those now as they were released in the Ruby/Sapphire era, but I personally have such a distaste for Colosseum and never looked at XD.

Then we're in Gen 4, which is going to be a pick between Platinum or BDSP.  Luckily, those are three titles I haven't played, so I can completely cop out of that and say "Platinum if you like blocky graphics, BDSP if you prefer modern transferability."  Yes, Platinum's got additional bits, but as a Diamond player I cannot attest to them.  Pokemon Battle Revolution came out in this generation, but I also skipped that title, too.  Gen 5 is easy, it contains direct sequels, so you just play them in order.  Gen 6 is even easier because it's just X or Y at this point.  Gen 7 is a bit up in the air, I enjoyed both the original and the Ultra titles, I would personally recommend the Ultra titles because they added a few pokemon, but the originals aren't wrong.  Then Gen 8 is easy again.

Finally, for clarification's sake, if you really want to play a title in every generation, then the process changes to "essentially chronological order."  GSC split RBY's special stat permanently, so you want to play RBY (preference to Yellow) before GSC (preference to Crystal).  RSE introduced abilities and the IV/EV data structure that a significant portion of future titles use, but arguably FRLG is more geared towards beginners what with Teachy TV and the "last time you played the game" review so _maybe_ FRLG _then_ RSE (preference Emerald).  Between DPP (preference Platinum) and HGSS... I didn't play HGSS, but living in the times everyone said having a pokemon follow you around is objectively such an awesome feature that no one wants to go away, so you'd play Platinum before HGSS so you don't need to live without that torture for one title.  And you want to play either before B/W/2 because moves got their physical and special split then, too.  And since B2W2 is a direct sequel to B/W it's kinda easy to figure out what order in which to play them, you get special bits for linking them up in order.

So, would I recommend playing ORAS before or after XY?  Yes.  I imagine playing XY would be priority at this point because B2W2, as different as it is from BW, still takes place in the same region so a new region would be more refreshing than another remake at this point.  One of the criticisms of USUM is that it doesn't provide enough new things from SM, and as they're alternate realities one can claim they both happen at the same time, but as USUM has _slightly_ more pokemon and features than SM, I'd still suggest SM then USUM.  Let's Go, well, you already played that, but you definitely want to play that before SwSh, with expansion pass.  There might be a point that one should play BDSP before SwSh, depending on how much you liked Platinum, what you liked in Platinum,  whether or not the graphics fit with you, and if you like the idea of playing two remakes in a row- despite BDSP coming out later, it could still "feel" like a downgrade from SwSh in certain regards.  And since Arceus is the most recent title with its own battle and effort mechanics, kinda want to play that last until we see what Scar/Let show.

----------


## Squire Doodad

I would suggest playing SuMo somewhere in the middle, so USUM isn't just repeating what you just did. Maybe SuMo after Unova, and then XY after SuMo.

BW and B2W2 should be play in sequence as they are directly connected to each other.

----------


## Mark Hall

FINALLY! Five great throws in a row!

----------


## Spore

> FINALLY! Five great throws in a row!


I see you're just as clumsy as I am. Worst thing is that I play PoGo on the go (as in, on my way to work) so i cannot slow down my walk or else I am late. But I need a steady mobile phone to line up shots like that, making me stand in the street like an idiot.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> FINALLY! Five great throws in a row!


Congrats!  :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> FINALLY! Five great throws in a row!


Nice!  :Smile:

----------


## Fable Wright

So, not usually one to post battle replays, but thread's been slow recently and hey, it's the cleanest game of Monotype against a type disadvantage that I've _ever_ had.

*Spoiler: Was testing out new Golisopod sets for, and was on the fence about it... until now.*
Show

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1552284101

For anyone who cares, the Golisopod set is specced with First Impression, Sucker Punch, Liquidation, and Taunt, specced such that just barely outspeeds an uninvested or 4-leftover-speed-EV-to-outspeed-mirror Aegislash, max attack + Adamant, and everything else in HP. It's great for Taunting Ferrothorns to prevent them from setting up as a lead, doing a Liquidation to hit any incoming Celesteela or Aegislash coming in without proccing weakness policy, or Sucker Punch to cover for, well, stupid fast ghosts like Scarf Gengar, Scarf Blacephelon, or Scarf Spectrier. Also, coutesy speed investment, outspeeds and can seriously damage Aegislash with Sucker Punch when it tries to Shadow Sneak.

And sometimes a free Teleport is just what you need. 

...For anyone wondering about the Ribombee outspeeding the Dragapult, it's a Scarf Timid Ribombee with Switcheroo, Sticky Web, Moonblast, and U-Turn. Jank? Yes. Responsible for multiple blowouts because no one expects their Agility'd GMoltres or Scarf GZapdos to be outsped? Also yes. It is my precious speed control bee and I love it.

----------


## MCerberus

Does anyone know when we're going to get more/new weedcat news? And maybe info about the rest of the game?

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

New trailer:

Link because it wont let me imbed the video

----------


## boj0

Love it, Lechonk is best 'mon.

----------


## MCerberus

I love the English name. Whether or not it's a reference to the "chonker" meme or not, the name is super fun to say.

Also where do they find these TCG artists?
*Spoiler*
Show

----------


## Lord Raziere

Mightyena in that picture: gasp! I always wanted to eat my own head, how did you know? 
Elite Four Guy: I didn't, they just make it custom for every pokemon on the fly, its creepy. 

also there is a voltorb cookie amid the pokeball ones, thats a nice touch.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I love the English name. Whether or not it's a reference to the "chonker" meme or not, the name is super fun to say.
> 
> Also where do they find these TCG artists?
> *Spoiler*
> Show


It's simultaneously absolutely, totally referencing the chonker mean... and also referencing "lechon" is a specific sort of roast pig meal that is super popular in Spain (and everywhere tbh). So it's literally god ****ing perfect a name, like mana from the heavens. Blessed to have the best name possible.

----------


## MCerberus

> Mightyena in that picture: gasp! I always wanted to eat my own head, how did you know? 
> Elite Four Guy: I didn't, they just make it custom for every pokemon on the fly, its creepy. 
> 
> also there is a voltorb cookie amid the pokeball ones, thats a nice touch.


I think Full-Art Sylveon did it.
Sylveons are just kinda like that

----------


## Rater202

> I think Full-Art Sylveon did it.
> Sylveons are just kinda like that


Gee, it's almost like they're a fairy or something...

Note to self, add a forest full of escaped/abandoned fairy-type hybrids who went insane and style themselves as the Fair Folk to Pokepunk somewhere...

----------


## MCerberus

> Gee, it's almost like they're a fairy or something...
> 
> Note to self, add a forest full of escaped/abandoned fairy-type hybrids who went insane and style themselves as the Fair Folk to Pokepunk somewhere...


Fairy Type Trainer: Look how adorable they are. They love making people happy, look what they whipped up
Fairy Type Mon: *YOU WILL CONSUME YOUR OWN FACE OR FACE A CURSE MOST DIRE
*
You: What did they say?
Fairy Type Trainer: Nothing, eat up

You know, Sylveon being weird with the ribbons and Clefairy's ability to randomly and uncontrollably summon a nuke... or anything else, really does bring in the duality of mythological fey

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah thats why I love Fae: they can both be whimsical and edgy. whimsically edgy. edgically whimsical. duality, much like myself. they can force you to do the silliest things to avoid the most dangerous of fates and be both fun and trickstery and terrifying when they're angry. and Fairy types are no exception, as some of my favorite pokemon are fairies. Jigglypuff is a classic example, because they are fairy long before fairy type was ever thing:
Jigglypuff: sings beautiful lullaby to anyone they see
Also Jigglypuff: angrily draws on their faces when they fall asleep.

----------


## Rater202

> Yeah thats why I love Fae: they can both be whimsical and edgy. whimsically edgy. edgically whimsical. duality, much like myself. they can force you to do the silliest things to avoid the most dangerous of fates and be both fun and trickstery and terrifying when they're angry. and Fairy types are no exception, as some of my favorite pokemon are fairies. Jigglypuff is a classic example, because they are fairy long before fairy type was ever thing:
> Jigglypuff: sings beautiful lullaby to anyone they see
> Also Jigglypuff: angrily draws on their faces when they fall asleep.


I remember one episode of the anime where they deliberately set up a concert to lure Jigglypuff in because they needed it to use Lullaby on something... And jut left a set of markers on a table nearby.

----------


## MCerberus

> I remember one episode of the anime where they deliberately set up a concert to lure Jigglypuff in because they needed it to use Lullaby on something... And jut left a set of markers on a table nearby.


Or the primal 30 foot tall Jigglypuff they needed to use to re-seal the apocalypse which had its own markers.

----------


## Spore

> I remember one episode of the anime where they deliberately set up a concert to lure Jigglypuff in because they needed it to use Lullaby on something... And jut left a set of markers on a table nearby.


Wasn't it a rampaging Snorlax eating an orange plantation on the Orange Isles? Or am I combining episode plots here?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Wasn't it a rampaging Snorlax eating an orange plantation on the Orange Isles? Or am I combining episode plots here?


Yes you are combining plots. the rampaging Snorlax eating oranges occurs long after that. its the Snorlax that Ash actually catches too, unlike the earlier one that ate thorns.

the plot where they lure in Jigglypuff to sing I think is the episode where she first appears. its one where they go to Neon Town, a city that is always awake 24/7. lights, always on day or night. so they decide to try use Jigglypuffs song to make people sleep because it was literally making everyone jerks by never sleeping. or....something. I don't think sleeping was the actual plan, it was just the result, because- now I remember, they wanted someone to hear Jigglypuff sing and they figured that the city that never sleeps would have SOMEONE able to appreciate Jigglypuffs song, but they ended up making everyone in the city fall asleep instead and teaching the city a lesson about important sleep is. 

though they might've lured Jigglypuff in for something else in a later episode, Jigglypuff was kind of a running gag that showed up now and then, even showed up in Johto at least once.

----------


## MCerberus

Child me: "How could it be possible people can mess up their sleep enough to make them angry and miserable"
Adult me: *uncontrollable weeping*

In other news, the TCG/Go crossover seems a dud. Go players get a pikachu hat, and the TCG set has 2 viable cards
Additionally, Spigatito continues to be best starter
*Spoiler*
Show

----------


## Lord Raziere

By Arceus.....a cat who likes water.

this is some strange sorcery if I ever did see it. completely unnatural.

----------


## MCerberus

> By Arceus.....a cat who likes water.
> 
> this is some strange sorcery if I ever did see it. completely unnatural.


The conspiracy goes deep

Although my best friend's cat constantly plays with his water bowl and can't be punished with the spray bottle 'cause he likes it.

----------


## Celestia

> Additionally, Spigatito continues to be best starter
> *Spoiler*
> Show


It's going to be so funny when Sprigatito evolves into a furry.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> By Arceus.....a cat who likes water.
> 
> this is some strange sorcery if I ever did see it. completely unnatural.


I gather there are certain breeds that are fine with it. Tigers, and on the domestic side Maincoon, dunno what else off hand.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Most of the stats in numbers make no sense. For example, Arceus has base stats of all 120, Zacian has attack stats, and Shuckle has both defense and special defense of 230. I just really can't comprehend these stats at all.  :Annoyed:

----------


## tonberrian

> Most of the stats in numbers make no sense. For example, Arceus has base stats of all 120, Zacian has attack stats, and Shuckle has both defense and special defense of 230. I just really can't comprehend these stats at all.


The Base Stat is a number used in generating the stats of a pokemon based on level. While you could use them to calculate stats at any given level, it's easiest to compare the base stats of the pokemon to determine how good it is because a pokemon's base stats do not change based on level. Moreover, stats scale linearly based on level (in games gen 3 and later, not counting hp which is a little different) so a level 50 pokemon has roughly half the stats of the same pokemon with the same EVs at level 100. Two pokemon with the same nature, ivs, evs, and base stat will have the same stats at any level you compare them. 

Generally, Base Stats of less than 100 are not great, 100 is decent, and the higher above 100 the better. Mew, with 100 base stats all around, is very balanced and can do anything well enough. It's a jack of all trades - can't do any particular thing as well as a dedicated mon for that role, but does so many things at equivalent power it's impossible to predict what it does. Arceus has 120 stats all around. It's quite good at anything it sets its mind doing. Zacian's 130 attack is quite good, very few pokemon are better than it at Attack, and Zacian Crowned's 170 is only beaten by Deoxys Attack Forme and Kartana in gen 8, and additionally Primal Groudon, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Heracross, and Mega Mewtwo X out of all currently released pokemon.

----------


## Taevyr

Just found out that pokémon reborn got finished recently,so decided to give it a new go from scratch. Thus far, it's pretty good: the early game seems to have been revamped as well, and it certainly makes for a more interesting experience thus far. Characters seem to have been rounded out a little, and it's clear that the finished plot was used to revamp the earliest part to connect better to the whole. Which makes going through said of the earlier parts far more entertaining than a normal repeat run.

Currently got a (post-second gym) main team consisting of:

Kappa the Marshtomp 
Jörmungandr the Onix 
Banshee the Loudred
Anansi the Joltik 
Yuki-Otoko the Alolan Vulpix (lucky egg)
and Khensu the Umbreon (traded a shiny for an eevee via the fora)

with Ailm, a Pineco, on the bench for now. I remember a Growlithe being available before the third gym that I'll likely pick up as well. Just gotta think of a good nickname: likely Sekhmet or Nemean, depending on gender  :Small Tongue: .

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The Base Stat is a number used in generating the stats of a pokemon based on level. While you could use them to calculate stats at any given level, it's easiest to compare the base stats of the pokemon to determine how good it is because a pokemon's base stats do not change based on level. Moreover, stats scale linearly based on level (in games gen 3 and later, not counting hp which is a little different) so a level 50 pokemon has roughly half the stats of the same pokemon with the same EVs at level 100. Two pokemon with the same nature, ivs, evs, and base stat will have the same stats at any level you compare them. 
> 
> Generally, Base Stats of less than 100 are not great, 100 is decent, and the higher above 100 the better. Mew, with 100 base stats all around, is very balanced and can do anything well enough. It's a jack of all trades - can't do any particular thing as well as a dedicated mon for that role, but does so many things at equivalent power it's impossible to predict what it does. Arceus has 120 stats all around. It's quite good at anything it sets its mind doing. Zacian's 130 attack is quite good, very few pokemon are better than it at Attack, and Zacian Crowned's 170 is only beaten by Deoxys Attack Forme and Kartana in gen 8, and additionally Primal Groudon, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Heracross, and Mega Mewtwo X out of all currently released pokemon.


Cool. I just learned something new about Pokemon Stats.  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

I've encountered a very strange bug while playing the US edition of _Pokémon Ruby_. I wish dearly that I recorded it. I can't find note of it anywhere.

My level 33 Combusken was fighting a Voltorb in New Mauville. My Combusken was paralyzed at the time. When it used Double Kick, the game informed me that its BLAZE ability paralyzed the Voltorb. I tried replicating this glitch, but I had no luck.

Has anyone encountered anything similar? I suspect that either the game somehow thought that my Combusken had the STATIC ability, or there was some kinda... I dunno, delayed SYNCHRONIZE effect.

----------


## Qwertystop

I vaguely recall that the acid rain glitch in gen 4 causes the game to say each Pokemon is damaged by their own ability, so there's something to indicate that maybe things are wired up for attributing effects to abilities that may not actually be related to those abilities. But I don't think I've ever heard of something like that one in particular.

----------


## TaiLiu

> I vaguely recall that the acid rain glitch in gen 4 causes the game to say each Pokemon is damaged by their own ability, so there's something to indicate that maybe things are wired up for attributing effects to abilities that may not actually be related to those abilities. But I don't think I've ever heard of something like that one in particular.


Aw, darn it. Thanks for responding. Good to hear about the acid rain glitch.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Sometimes I question certain things about Pokemon such as Dragon-Type Pokemon. How come Altaria is considered a dragon and Charizard is not a dragon type? (Even though one of Charizard Mega Form Is a dragon type) Altaria doesn't look anything like a dragon and don't get me started on Flygon and Alolan Exeegutor. There was a comic based on the question that I asked this question on Facebook.

----------


## MCerberus

Alolan Executor is a taxonomic pun. See the devs thought the alolan form looked like a dragon tree. And so its typing is grass/dragon. Gamefreak is a magical place, where the great-uncle of the pokemone champion sells time travelers consumer electronics, and they really really want to forget what they said the middle of the unova map was supposed to represent.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Alolan Executor is a taxonomic pun. See the devs thought the alolan form looked like a dragon tree. And so its typing is grass/dragon. Gamefreak is a magical place, where the great-uncle of the pokemone champion sells time travelers consumer electronics, and they really really want to forget what they said the middle of the unova map was supposed to represent.


Taxonomic. That is a new word that I learned. So anyway speaking of dragon-type Pokemon. I like a dragon-type Pokemon. I probably think of writing a Pokemon fan-fiction story with a Pokemon trainer who only used Dragon-Type Pokemon that he was inspired by Lance the Elite Four Dragon Pokemon Champion. I check the Dragon-type Pokemon and there are so many good Dragon-Type Pokemon to build as a team.

----------


## Qwertystop

> Alolan Executor is a taxonomic pun. See the devs thought the alolan form looked like a dragon tree. And so its typing is grass/dragon. Gamefreak is a magical place, where the great-uncle of the pokemone champion sells time travelers consumer electronics, and they really really want to forget what they said the middle of the unova map was supposed to represent.


I... the middle of the Unova map is Central Park, plainly, I'm not sure what the problem is there?

----------


## Saambell

> I... the middle of the Unova map is Central Park, plainly, I'm not sure what the problem is there?


I think they were more meaning the suspected Desert Resort parallel. The Central Park is basically not used, which is a shame.

----------


## MCerberus

Well the direct managed to say pretty much nothing, except that all the elders you ride on in Arceus are going to take the form of your... time... dragon

----------


## Celestia

> Well the direct managed to say pretty much nothing, except that all the elders you ride on in Arceus are going to take the form of your... time... dragon


>Rideable legendaries
>First open world game
>Can challenge the gyms in any order
>Three separate plots
>The new battle mechanic
>Multiplayer

Oh, yeah. Absolutely nothing. What what even the point of this Direct?

----------


## MCerberus

> >Rideable legendaries
> >First open world game
> >Can challenge the gyms in any order
> >Three separate plots
> >The new battle mechanic
> >Multiplayer
> 
> Oh, yeah. Absolutely nothing. What what even the point of this Direct?


I must have gotten a really bad stream, did they have sections between the trailers that I got cut out?

----------


## mjp1050

Speaking as someone who has only played Gen 8 and was slightly underwhelmed by it, I'm seeing a lot of things I like.




> >Rideable legendaries


Eh.



> >First open world game


Oh, that has me excited. 



> >Can challenge the gyms in any order


Heck yes!



> >Three separate plots


Story has never been Pokemon's strong suit, but sure. 



> >The new battle mechanic


I mean, it serves the same purpose as every other battle mechanic. 



> >Multiplayer


Not for me, thanks. But co-op, even if it's not couch co-op (unless I've misunderstood the direct) is going to make a lot of people very happy.

Tangentially, it seems like the graphics have been polished since the last trailer.





> I must have gotten a really bad stream, did they have sections between the trailers that I got cut out?


Not sure what video you watched, but this one goes into more details from 12:00 onwards:https://youtu.be/i4Z3ttXJsMw?t=721

----------


## LaZodiac

The new pokemon are my best friends forever.

Wooper that chose violence, bread dog, and the great white expanse Bismark!

I'm also like 90% sure that flaming rock concert stage party wagon is gonna be related to that one guitar dragon guy who shows up in Sun and Moon.

----------


## Tsuzurao

> Sometimes I question certain things about Pokemon such as Dragon-Type Pokemon. How come Altaria is considered a dragon and Charizard is not a dragon type? (Even though one of Charizard Mega Form Is a dragon type) Altaria doesn't look anything like a dragon and don't get me started on Flygon and Alolan Exeegutor. There was a comic based on the question that I asked this question on Facebook.


Flygon's entire line seems to be a weird mixture of _dragon_flies and antlions.

Altaria is an ambiguous one - one theory is a connection to a star in the Draco constellation that's tied to the play "The Blue Bird"/"L'Oiseau Bleu", with said association possibly being clearer in its Japanese name, but I don't think anything has ever confirmed as much.

As for why Charizard isn't a Dragon-type? That's _probably_ for the sake of avoiding breaking the type-advantage cycle that the three starters have. Dragon was a very rare type in the early generations of Pokemon (it's still not _common_ now), and it has a lot of relevant type resistances.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Flygon's entire line seems to be a weird mixture of _dragon_flies and antlions.
> 
> Altaria is an ambiguous one - one theory is a connection to a star in the Draco constellation that's tied to the play "The Blue Bird"/"L'Oiseau Bleu", with said association possibly being clearer in its Japanese name, but I don't think anything has ever confirmed as much.
> 
> As for why Charizard isn't a Dragon-type? That's _probably_ for the sake of avoiding breaking the type-advantage cycle that the three starters have. Dragon was a very rare type in the early generations of Pokemon (it's still not _common_ now), and it has a lot of relevant type resistances.


Well, all of what you said makes perfect sense.

Also, I have another question to ask: Is there a Clock Pokemon?  :Smile:

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Well, all of what you said makes perfect sense.
> 
> Also, I have another question to ask: Is there a Clock Pokemon?


I dont think there is but I think Hoothoot has a bit of flavor toward it.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I dont think there is but I think Hoothoot has a bit of flavor toward it.


Ok. But I think it would be good to have an actual Clock Pokemon.

----------


## SKarious

Well, there's also the Klink/Klang/Klinklang family. They're based on toothwheels and gears.

----------


## MCerberus

It looks a whole lot like dragon-cycle has a pre-evolution. Maybe it's shared like Sun/Moon

----------


## Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins

> It looks a whole lot like dragon-cycle has a pre-evolution. Maybe it's shared like Sun/Moon


Cyclizar is apparently very common in the region, and NPCs, I guess the Biker trainer class, will be riding them, according to the website. I think the legendaries might be a prehistoric ancestor and a future descendant species.

----------


## Celestia

> It looks a whole lot like dragon-cycle has a pre-evolution. Maybe it's shared like Sun/Moon


I think it's more of a Carbink/Diance situation, rather than a Cosmog.

----------


## SaintRidley

The Emerald leg of my hardcore genlocke has been going real smooth so far. Haven't reached any of the randomly assigned routes I have to catch encounters on to be able to obtain my championspawn from the FireRed run, but I just beat Wattson and remain at zero deaths. Onward to Flannery I go.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I wish that there were more Dragon Pokemon in Pokemon: Arceus even though a few Dragon Pokemon are very good.  :Sigh:

----------


## MCerberus

New trailer dropped. They seem to be pushing more of the open world spirit. If they follow through and have a narrative game without the strangling railroading that creeps in to pokemon sometimes this is actually pretty exciting. This is, of course, if they actually had enough time to iterate on Arceus to iron out its weirdness.

edit- oh, and crowd chanting during battle themes is back

----------


## boj0

I'm actually becoming more and more on board for the next generation, there's a certain charm and cozy feeling to these reveals that makes me dare to feel excited, because after 20+ years even my fanboyism was starting to dwindle after SM and SS.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Also, I like to point out that Palkia and Dialga Origin Form are pretty much like horses than actual centaurs. We need an actual centaur Pokemon in the Pokemon Universe.

----------


## LaZodiac

> New trailer dropped. They seem to be pushing more of the open world spirit. If they follow through and have a narrative game without the strangling railroading that creeps in to pokemon sometimes this is actually pretty exciting. This is, of course, if they actually had enough time to iterate on Arceus to iron out its weirdness.
> 
> edit- oh, and crowd chanting during battle themes is back


The trailer was a focus on the three story tracks you can take in the game, and they all seem pretty reasonably un-railed from what I've seen. I like the new characters we're seeing, an evolution of the big boss pokemon fights (Titan crab friend), a continuation of the gyms being more than just fighting (go find some sunflowers for this petty emo art student!) and the rival stuff takes advantage of the Auto-Battle mechanic to make it feel like you really are being swarmed by a bunch of hooligans (also the star theming, the fire squad being named after an actual real life star, and the beholder-ass engine block pokemon makes me think there's gonna be more going on than just dissatisfied students repping the Philippines with their revolutionary flag aesthetics).




> I'm actually becoming more and more on board for the next generation, there's a certain charm and cozy feeling to these reveals that makes me dare to feel excited, because after 20+ years even my fanboyism was starting to dwindle after SM and SS.


Hell yeah. Give in to the good and cute times.




> Also, I like to point out that Palkia and Dialga Origin Form are pretty much like horses than actual centaurs. We need an actual centaur Pokemon in the Pokemon Universe.


Literally no one has ever thought of them as centaur.

----------


## Celestia

> Literally no one has ever thought of them as centaur.


There were lots of jokes about Palkia being a centaur when the game first came out.

----------


## LaZodiac

> There were lots of jokes about Palkia being a centaur when the game first came out.


Do you mean the origin form, or the original form? Because I can definitely see the former (though haven't seen any of that happening myself) but certainly not the OG Palkia.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Do you mean the origin form, or the original form? Because I can definitely see the former (though haven't seen any of that happening myself) but certainly not the OG Palkia.


The origin form she meant.

----------


## MCerberus

Oh that reminds me, add Origin Forme being body horror at the hands of the Hisuians trying to forge a pokemon into the shape of a god then imprisoning it as part of a ritual to the list of horrifying things in the setting.

Seriously, Dialga has part of its head stuck in its neck making it unable to speak, when its entire deal is Roar of Time

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Oh that reminds me, add Origin Forme being body horror at the hands of the Hisuians trying to forge a pokemon into the shape of a god then imprisoning it as part of a ritual to the list of horrifying things in the setting.
> 
> Seriously, Dialga has part of its head stuck in its neck making it unable to speak, when its entire deal is Roar of Time


Interesting. I bet that Dialga most powerful attack.

----------


## Maat Mons

Ive never played any of the games, and its probably been 25 years since I watched any of the anime.  But I recently, started watching some Dorkly videos on YouTube.  An off-hand comment about using water-type Pokémon to fight fires made me vaguely recall that the anime sometimes showed Pokémon being used for non-violent purposes.  I cant really remember any specifics though.  

Would anyone like to remind me how Pokémon can benefit humanity, besides fighting for our amusement?  Cannon examples, or just things you personally think make sense.  Whichever you prefer.  Sorry if this turns out to have already been discussed.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Ive never played any of the games, and its probably been 25 years since I watched any of the anime.  But I recently, started watching some Dorkly videos on YouTube.  An off-hand comment about using water-type Pokémon to fight fires made me vaguely recall that the anime sometimes showed Pokémon being used for non-violent purposes.  I cant really remember any specifics though.  
> 
> Would anyone like to remind me how Pokémon can benefit humanity, besides fighting for our amusement?  Cannon examples, or just things you personally think make sense.  Whichever you prefer.  Sorry if this turns out to have already been discussed.


I think it was a Squirtle who put out the fires.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Ive never played any of the games, and its probably been 25 years since I watched any of the anime.  But I recently, started watching some Dorkly videos on YouTube.  An off-hand comment about using water-type Pokémon to fight fires made me vaguely recall that the anime sometimes showed Pokémon being used for non-violent purposes.  I cant really remember any specifics though.  
> 
> Would anyone like to remind me how Pokémon can benefit humanity, besides fighting for our amusement?  Cannon examples, or just things you personally think make sense.  Whichever you prefer.  Sorry if this turns out to have already been discussed.


Videogame canon: 
machoke/machop have been used for construction purposes and moving/transport a couple times, in 4th gen I'm pretty sure Roarke is a part of a mining town that works with pokemon to mine coal, technically surf is proof that a lot of people use water pokemon to sim through large bodies of water without a boat which would explain all the swimmers and fishermen you encounter on those routes, those sisters in johto have eeveelutions to dance with them I think, and bunch of people with jobs seem to just pick the pokemon that relates to their profession so I doubt they just use those pokemon for battle, because if your a hiker there are certain pokemon that can allow to traverse places, if your a construction worker there is pokemon that can help you lift stuff, researchers probably pick pokemon that relate to what they are researching, like the competitive pro-pokemon trainer who picks six pokemon to only use for battle in my impression seems to be rarity and most are probably casual people who just get pokemon for other things and just see the pokemon battles as a hobby on the side.

I recall a pokedex entry about that coal pokemon from gen 8 being used for warmth at some point before modern times? or was it something else?

Anime canon:
Chanseys help Joys with medical stuff, Jenny's usually have a Growlithe to help them sniff stuff out, a bunch of pikachu were used as emergency power for a pokemon center in an early episode, whenever a disaster or other kind of situation strikes pokemon are just as quick to help out dealing with it as the humans are, there is a lot of nonviolent pokemon contests and competitions in the anime I can't list them all because they're often just one off episode plots....but really I noticed in the anime that pokemon don't really do specific jobs so as much as generally help out the humans they live with out of friendship like if a lumberjack is cutting down trees and they have a pokemon its likely they have a pokemon that helps them cut down trees but also is just like, a friend or pet that lives with them y'know? like while there isn't any mass organized effort to make pokemon useful, pokemon do help out humans and civilization on an individual personal level, which y'know fits with the videogame canon, its not a thing where humans go out of their way to make a lot of do work for humans on some industrial scale most of the time, the human-pokemon relationship of the anime focuses on portraying the relationship as symbiotic and non-exploitative so I doubt we'll ever see something like pokemon working in factories, its very much a "they help us because we befriend them and respect what these creatures want and how they behave" kind of deal.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Ive never played any of the games, and its probably been 25 years since I watched any of the anime.  But I recently, started watching some Dorkly videos on YouTube.  An off-hand comment about using water-type Pokémon to fight fires made me vaguely recall that the anime sometimes showed Pokémon being used for non-violent purposes.  I cant really remember any specifics though.  
> 
> Would anyone like to remind me how Pokémon can benefit humanity, besides fighting for our amusement?  Cannon examples, or just things you personally think make sense.  Whichever you prefer.  Sorry if this turns out to have already been discussed.


Man, there is 20+ years of anime to refer to!

Transportation was one of them, no matter if it was flying, on ground or on water like Lapras. We had a trainer using Ladyba to praid the pollen from flowers like bee does in our world. Electric Pokemon used as emergency source of power. Pokemon that learn the move cut to make charcoal or cut piece of woods. Fighting Pokemon helping build buildings on construction sites. Pichus used to make bug and fliying Pokemon away from a orchard. Shuckles create berry juice to harvest. Honey is made by Combees. Used by a magician in his act. Fire Pokemon to warm us up in winter. 

Some Pokemon like Leafeon and Galarian Wheezing can release clean air. Other can help us fall asleep if you are insomniac and remove your nightmares with the Dream Eater move. Others like to keep things tiddy so they help us clean up our living space. Psychic Pokemon can help reach for things with telekenesis. Grass or Ground Pokemon can make a better harvest for humans. Galarian Grimer and Muk adapted to eat our GARBAGES! Any will do!

Im sure there is so much more Im forgetting. Like Pokemon rangers using Pokemon to help find lost childs in the woods or something lol

----------


## Celestia

> ... its probably been 25 years since I watched any of the anime.


Did you watch the original Japanese release? The English translation is only 24 years old.

----------


## Rater202

Yet another reminder that Ash Ketchem has been ten since I was five.

----------


## Maat Mons

I watched the American release.  For some reason, I thought I was younger than 12 when I watched it.  Time plays tricks on the mind, I guess.  I remember I stopped watching shortly after Brock got replaced with the artist.  Wikipedia says that was just a few episodes into season 2, which means its been 22 years.  

Thanks for all the examples so far!  

Could you elaborate on the use of Grass and Ground Pokémon in agriculture?  I was aware of Digletts being helpful.  And a list of 10 Best Pokémon To Live With In Real Life that I found online said something called Shaymin can heal destroyed land.  Are there universal properties of Grass and Ground Pokémon that help with crops?  Or is it just that a lot of Pokémon in these categories have abilities that would be useful?  

Dorkly did some bits on Pokémon fights changing weather.  Controlling the weather seems like it would have obvious uses.  Looking through move lists online, the ones that generate weather people might actually want seem to be Rain Dance and Sunny Day.  It looks like 346-ish Pokémon can learn both?  Is there a good place to search Pokémon based on criteria?  All I could find were big lists for each move of which Pokémon can learn it.  Cross referencing those was a bit of a pain.  Anyway, I kind of figured living-plant Pokémon would make sense if youre using them to create good conditions for growing crops.  I you teach a plant to control the weather, it should be naturally inclined to create weather thats good for plants, like itself.  On the other hand, if you teach a ghost to control the weather, youll probably have an uphill battle trying to keep it from making rain all the time.  Ghosts like spooky weather.  

The plant Pokémon I could find that can learn both Rain Dance and Sunny Day are Leafeon, Celebi, Budew/Roselia/Roserade, and Lotad/Lombre/Ludicolo.  Leafeon is adorable.  So is Celebi, but the internet says its Mythical, which I assume means too rare to employ at a large scale.  The internet also says Budew/Roselia/Roserade is poisonous, which seems less than ideal from a safety standpoint.  Lotad apparently struggles out of the water, and Lombre/Ludicolo look ridiculous.  This leads me to suspect that Leafeon is the best Weather-Control Machine / Chia Pet.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Yet another reminder that Ash Ketchem has been ten since I was five.


He's been ten since I was 19. You get used to it.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I watched the American release.  For some reason, I thought I was younger than 12 when I watched it.  Time plays tricks on the mind, I guess.  I remember I stopped watching shortly after Brock got replaced with the artist.  Wikipedia says that was just a few episodes into season 2, which means its been 22 years.  
> 
> Thanks for all the examples so far!  
> 
> Could you elaborate on the use of Grass and Ground Pokémon in agriculture?  I was aware of Digletts being helpful.  And a list of 10 Best Pokémon To Live With In Real Life that I found online said something called Shaymin can heal destroyed land.  Are there universal properties of Grass and Ground Pokémon that help with crops?  Or is it just that a lot of Pokémon in these categories have abilities that would be useful?  
> 
> Dorkly did some bits on Pokémon fights changing weather.  Controlling the weather seems like it would have obvious uses.  Looking through move lists online, the ones that generate weather people might actually want seem to be Rain Dance and Sunny Day.  It looks like 346-ish Pokémon can learn both?  Is there a good place to search Pokémon based on criteria?  All I could find were big lists for each move of which Pokémon can learn it.  Cross referencing those was a bit of a pain.  Anyway, I kind of figured living-plant Pokémon would make sense if youre using them to create good conditions for growing crops.  I you teach a plant to control the weather, it should be naturally inclined to create weather thats good for plants, like itself.  On the other hand, if you teach a ghost to control the weather, youll probably have an uphill battle trying to keep it from making rain all the time.  Ghosts like spooky weather.  
> 
> The plant Pokémon I could find that can learn both Rain Dance and Sunny Day are Leafeon, Celebi, Budew/Roselia/Roserade, and Lotad/Lombre/Ludicolo.  Leafeon is adorable.  So is Celebi, but the internet says its Mythical, which I assume means too rare to employ at a large scale.  The internet also says Budew/Roselia/Roserade is poisonous, which seems less than ideal from a safety standpoint.  Lotad apparently struggles out of the water, and Lombre/Ludicolo look ridiculous.  This leads me to suspect that Leafeon is the best Weather-Control Machine / Chia Pet.


I think the best weather control Pokémon is Castform. Just a hunch, just feels right lol!

Otherwise, Heliodisk is the best weather set up I guess. He had 3 abilities that can be useful in different kind of weather. Just get the one right for you. Driftflim can learn Weather Ball so you could pick it too. Its one of those Pokémon that would not enjoy to make it rain too much, being a flying Pokémon with weakness to thunder damage. 

Poison Pokémon have been ruled to not always be poisonous for the trainers it trusted. At least in the anime. So a Roselia wouldnt be dangerous to hug necessarily, unless it involved small childrens who shouldnt be trusted near Pokémon without supervision anyway lol!

Another Pokémon used by human is sheep Pokémon for the wool.

As for the ground Pokémon, look up the move Rototiller. Its a ground type move that is good for agriculture.

----------


## Maat Mons

Does Weather Ball alter the weather?  From reading it, I thought it was _affected by_ the weather, but not the other way around.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Would anyone like to remind me how Pokémon can benefit humanity, besides fighting for our amusement?  Cannon examples, or just things you personally think make sense.  Whichever you prefer.  Sorry if this turns out to have already been discussed.


You've probably already been given enough reason to take the pokedex entries with a grain of salt, but Delibird has a long history of just having an abundance of food and sharing it.  Something similar could be said for Farfetch'd, but the relationship is slightly more one-sided there.  Which also reminds me that there's a story arc in the video games where you can cut off a Slowpoke's tail to eat it and they're too slow to feel pain.  That... Also leads into the Milk Drink and Softboiled territory, but if you're watching Dorkly you already know about those. :Small Tongue: 

There's an old Reddit post I see now and then about how an Absol, once studied and the masses educated on how they don't _cause_ disasters, would make excellent safety guards in dangerous workplaces.  Riding off the idea of pokemon in the workplace, the entirety of Poke Jobs is just that, although the mechanical nature of Poke Jobs sets some really broad standards.  Poke Rides were more specific, but I don't know exactly how widespread riding a pokemon to find items would be in real life.

I remember one of the airports in the video games had an NPC that wanted to borrow a psychic or flying type pokemon to get packages off of a large shelf.  I know, that's stuff that could be done with a ladder, but it was in the game regardless.  (So help me, if they add a Ladder pokemon...)  It's also kind of a "meh" example, but Legends Arceus had that one person who absolutely needed a Geodude to seal jars to make pickles.  Not a pickle person myself, but apparently they were really good pickles?

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Does Weather Ball alter the weather?  From reading it, I thought it was _affected by_ the weather, but not the other way around.


You got that right! But if we are talking about having a weather setting Pokemon in a game, Weather Ball is thematic to have, especially considering the 4 moves limit. And Driftblim learn both Sunny Day and Rain Dance.

----------


## MCerberus

On a larger-scale there are actually multiple regions with pokemon that defend the planet from... external threats. Rayqueza defends from space, the Tapus from extra-dimensional incursion, and there are some theories about the Regi family.

Also you deliberately experiment with using pokemon for agriculture by... time traveling to the past and finding some farmers ground and water pokemon to help out.

----------


## Maat Mons

How do healing effects translate into the anime?  

Edit 1: And are any Pokémon able to read or write?    Besides Team Rocket's Meowth?  

Edit 2: Does anyone else think Gardevoir looks like an upside-down flower?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> How do healing effects translate into the anime?  
> 
> Edit 1: And are any Pokémon able to read or write?    Besides Team Rocket's Meowth?  
> 
> Edit 2: Does anyone else think Gardevoir looks like an upside-down flower?


Uuuuuh.....

Recover is mostly just... a healing light that covers the pokemon and they're suddenly better now. they don't use potions or the like in battles like ever in the anime.

as for reading and writing.....uuhh.....I'm trying to think......I think pokemon may have picked up a stick to like, draw pictures of things to communicate at some point, maybe? but I might just be misremembering all the times pikachu says some pokespeak and Ash just somehow understands like its nothing. as for reading, I don't think so? there might've been a point where a pokemon found a book and took it back to its trainer for the trainer to read? I think pokemon understand what books are but can't read them themselves, but don't quote me on that or anything, it'd be hard find a concrete example of pokemon interacting with letters happening and I can't think of any off the top of my head. though the Unown I think puts the whole thing into "they're all illiterate" category as a general rule because they're an entire pokemon dedicated to being letters and the fact that Meowth has an entire backstory explaining he how became a talking cat that was never replicated.

I can see Gardevoir being an upside-down flower, but there are a lot of actual flower pokemon that the design isn't intentional, because one look at Lilligant tells us that if Gardevoir was meant to be a flower, they'd probably look more like Lilligant.

----------


## Maat Mons

Thanks!  But for the healing thing, what I meant was, do HP-restoring moves only mend wounds?  Or are they ever shown to also cure disease?  And does healing ever leave a scar?  

Sorry for pestering you with so many questions!  (Not true, I feel no remorse.)

----------


## MCerberus

Generally, magic. Potions work like cure spells. There's chancey who has a magic healing egg, There are ill-defined times where magic doesn't work, so we end up with pokemon on EKG machines in hospitals but it's... never well defined.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Thanks!  But for the healing thing, what I meant was, do HP-restoring moves only mend wounds?  Or are they ever shown to also cure disease?  And does healing ever leave a scar?  
> 
> Sorry for pestering you with so many questions!  (Not true, I feel no remorse.)


healing does not leave a scar, its basically cartoon/anime healing where they just glow all over their body for a second then suddenly as good as new. do hp restoring moves heal disease.....hm......I don't recall them ever doing that, though there is not a lot of examples to draw from, because disease or sickness comes up surprisingly little in the pokemon anime, if at all. like....there might've been an episode where someone was sick....Oh! I remember in the Gringy City episode, Nurse Joy said the Pikachu had a cold which was why its electric powers were not working correctly, but this Nurse Joy didn't have a Chansey and for some reason the Joys don't use Chanseys to heal people but actual medical equipment anyways, and I think if there is any other episode where sickness is mentioned that a pokemon with a HP-restoring move just isn't available or there for that episode's plot.

I think there might've been another episode where I think one of the human gang was sick (or was it all of them?) and had to be taken care of but I don't remember when it took place, I want to say Johto but I can say for sure. like one of the trainers being sick while they're traveling is a plot that would, and I think has come up for an episode, the pokemon anime would totally do that to show the pokemon being caring for the humans they work with, but there are so many episodes that I honestly couldn't tell which one. there might be multiple, because it wouldn't surprise me if the plot was reused in a different form after a while.

But then again maybe there might've been an episode where some flower pokemon had some status-curing move and they had to protect the pokemon through danger to get them to the other pokemon or whatever to heal them with it? because disease seems more like a status, and toxic is this weird move thats poison type that everyone and their mother can learn and deals more damage over time so people think that move represents germs, so disease _probably_ falls under the poison type as far as pokemon is concerned, so moves that cure poison would cure disease, maybe. I can't remember any specific examples and I doubt this particular example was ever done because toxic was never used in the anime because TMs don't exist in the anime for some reason? (as far as I know, because I've only watched up to battle frontier) like there probably has been a flower pokemon needing to get someone to cure some payalysis condition with some grass type cure move, that I am for some reason sure of even though I have no memory of what episode this was. don't take my word for any of this because I'd have to find some way to look this kind of thing up in a series longer than the longest shonen battle animes except maaaaaybe One Piece.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> But then again maybe there might've been an episode where some flower pokemon had some status-curing move and they had to protect the pokemon through danger to get them to the other pokemon or whatever to heal them with it?


Same place I was thinking with Status-Curing moves being used for that sort of thing.  Refresh has been used in three episodes, Heal Bell in seven.  Unfortunately, it's not much different from how Recovery is portrayed, just glowy stuff and it's all cured.

They've not been used in battle, but the anime has shown potions and antidotes being used.  Usually, someone mentions that they sting a little bit, drawing out the comparison that they're like hydrogen peroxide spray bottles or such.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Same place I was thinking with Status-Curing moves being used for that sort of thing.  Refresh has been used in three episodes, Heal Bell in seven.  Unfortunately, it's not much different from how Recovery is portrayed, just glowy stuff and it's all cured.
> 
> They've not been used in battle, but the anime has shown potions and antidotes being used.  Usually, someone mentions that they sting a little bit, drawing out the comparison that they're like hydrogen peroxide spray bottles or such.


oh, we can look up the moves and the pages detail the episodes using them, thanks I didn't think of that.

Oh right! they do use the spray bottle potions outside of battle, I forgot, Brock is the medicine guy who carries such things around all times because he is like, the only one of the group actually prepared to travel through the wilderness and is actually this multi-talented trainer that makes Ash look dumb as a bag of rocks, he uses those like, at least semi-regularly.

----------


## Maat Mons

My research has revealed an episode of the anime where Soft-Boiled cures poison.  Combined with those instances of Heal Bell mending wounds, I guess this means the divide between HP recovery and condition removal was eliminated in the transition from the games to the anime.  

You know, I was starting to think Gardivoir would be the most practical Pokémon.  It can control the weather and instantly mend wounds, which are both things technology cant duplicate.  And its approximately human-sized and shaped, with limbs that presumably let it manipulate objects effectively.  Plus, its not goofy-looking or ugly, like many Pokémon, or creepy, like Miltank.  But I discovered Gardivoir has certain aficionados.  I was ready to grant it the status of being my favorite Pokémon, but how can I do that now?  If I say to someone, Gardivoir is my favorite Pokémon, what will they think of me?

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> But I discovered Gardivoir has certain aficionados.


I _assure_ you, if you let the "aficionados" determine which pokemon you can and cannot prefer, the list of eligible pokemon will be nonexistent.

Yes, Gardevoir is in like the top three pokemon for that thing, but there are already loads of people who like Gardevoir for reasons outside of that thing.

----------


## tonberrian

*Spoiler: Relevant Image*
Show

----------


## Taevyr

The weird part is that it's not merely the ones you'd expect: I still can't believe someone took the time to do write that one vaporeon copypasta. I'm fairly certain it isn't serious, but someone still had to think of it.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I _assure_ you, if you let the "aficionados" determine which pokemon you can and cannot prefer, the list of eligible pokemon will be nonexistent.
> 
> Yes, Gardevoir is in like the top three pokemon for that thing, but there are already loads of people who like Gardevoir for reasons outside of that thing.


True that. If you are afraid of judgement, just mention your favorite Pokémons (with a s) have abilities  that would be useful outside of battle, like changing the weather. And finish by saying your favorite among them is Gardevoir because it heals others and can learn both Rain Dance and Sunny Day. 

If someone is judging you for it after that explanation, they are just trolling you. 

If you want to make it even clear, mention you dont have one favorite Pokémon, you have several and cant choose just one. If you mention a list like Castform, Gardevoir and Heliodisk, it will be clear you arent choosing them with that theme in mind. Just dont list Gardevoir as the first one and put it in the middle of the list of 3 lol

----------


## Lord Raziere

> You know, I was starting to think Gardivoir would be the most practical Pokémon.  It can control the weather and instantly mend wounds, which are both things technology cant duplicate.  And its approximately human-sized and shaped, with limbs that presumably let it manipulate objects effectively.  Plus, its not goofy-looking or ugly, like many Pokémon, or creepy, like Miltank.  But I discovered Gardivoir has certain aficionados.  I was ready to grant it the status of being my favorite Pokémon, but how can I do that now?  If I say to someone, Gardivoir is my favorite Pokémon, what will they think of me?


That sounds more like a you problem. Individuality is not a thing determined by society. It is something you choose for yourself for your own reasons. Some people like things for different reasons than you do, and that is fine. If you want Gardevoir to be your favorite, simply say so, if you want to not be judged for it, simply not mention what your favorite is until your sure people know you well enough to not make that assumption. Though you must remember all things have been lewded in some form or manner. You probably have favorite characters who are already lewded, they are simply not as popular. In that sense, it doesn't matter: anyone who associates you with things you do not associate with is a jerk, plain and simple. everyone likes things for their own reasons and we must respect that. 

also the joke where someone denies liking something for non-lewd reasons and everyone doubting them is not a thing in real life. it is only a lazy joke featured in comedies. mostly because anyone who lewds something will just say they like it for that reason and feel no shame about it anyways, for they are shameless about lewdness in general.

----------


## Celestia

Gardevoir is my favorite, has been ever since I played Gen 3 back in the day.

----------


## tonberrian

I really like Squirtle as my favorite, but Dragonair as my second. Dragonair is so beautiful i think.

----------


## MCerberus

25 years an Articuno fan.
Also a fan of edgy Articuno.

The worst I have to deal with is the time the legendary pokemon co-operated a ski resort

also relevant to the medicine discussion:
*Spoiler: big*
Show

----------


## Emmerlaus

I being playing Pokémon since blue and red and strangely, not a lot of the old generation Pokémon remains among my favorites. I grew up so my tastes changed a bit too. 

But I can say for sure my favorite Pokémon is Tyrunt. Cute little guy with a fun and  movepool. Driftblim always had a spot in my heart too, despite not being very strong. I dont care what people say to, Driftblim design is awesome. 

But yeah in short, its silly to worry about what people think. They have the mind in the gutter if they think that, not you. As long as you show unaffected by their dirty assumptions, you have won over them. They shouldnt be people you want in your life anyway, especially for such a silly matter.

----------


## TaiLiu

> also relevant to the medicine discussion:
> *Spoiler: big*
> Show


This is really funny. Which episode is it from?  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Are Dragon-type Pokemon very powerful?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> This is really funny. Which episode is it from?


Oh thats a Kanto one, the Khangaskhan one where Ash finds a baby khangaskhan, safari-dressed mother and father looking for their human child, and they find that the child is this tarzan-child apart of a kangaskhan herd, team rocket tries to capture the herd, they foil them....then the parents decided to stay with the tarzan child and the kangaskhan rather than take the child away.

that was a weird episode, not gonna lie. even had a fourth wall joke where Jessie and James pulls out a bazooka, Meowth is like "hey we're not supposed to shoot the kangashkan on this show/we're supposed capture them not kill them!" or something and they like "relax Meowth, the bazooka only shoots this big net." 

Kanto Weirdness. ya gotta love it.

----------


## MCerberus

Wait and the other episode I remember them using a super potion, I seem to remember team rocket holding up a store with a bazooka (this one shoots bubbles). This causes two things, first Ash gets a several guns drawn on him, and second, 4kids desperate attempts to censor the entire thing. Also Gary accidentally gave Ash a concussion in a cameo appearance and... wasn't this the Squirtle Squad episode?

Point being I think the bazooka is necessary for the application of super potions.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Yeah I'm pretty sure thats the Squirtle Squad episode, because for the town the Squirtle Squad is pranking or whatever has some weird wild west looking store for some reason, that they have to go to, to get a super potion to like cure somebody, misty or pikachu I don't remember which (checks Bulbapedia) pikachu, it was for pikachu and the Squirtle were holding pikachu hostage.

----------


## Mark Hall

Random, pointless, idea:

Pokemon hear humans just saying their names repeatedly. As Meowth shows, they're actually capable of speech, they mostly just don't understand human speech.

Pikachu has listened to 10 years of "Ash Ash Ash Ketchum Ash Ketchum Ash Ash."

----------


## Lord Raziere

No, if anything, from what I've seen of pokemon they understand humans just fine, instantly responding to any commands even if they're complex or new, instantly responding to a preferential question like "how'd you like the food?" without problems, Meowths problem wasn't understanding humans, it was learning how to read and speak like them. like problems with pokemon behaving often aren't them misunderstanding, but the pokemon actively thinking their trainer is stupid or weak, or not caring what they think, things like that. don't ask how the humans deduce this, they just do. like even newly captured wild pokemon will instantly know what a trainer is talking about when they use this or that move, or understanding a human when they're saying something emotional to them and sharing the same feeling. like there is just too much evidence that pokemon understand humans just fine for me to buy that. 

I think the best theory about pokemon communicating with each other I've seen is from a comic dub video of a mystery dungeon fan story, that posited all pokemon are actually low level psychics who don't actually speak the same language but their low level psychic power allows to get the meaning across anyways and is also the reason they can refer to each other by species name without confusion because the psychic connection carries the meaning of "this charmander, not that one" implicitly. and that humans simply don't have this psychic connection inherently so they can't understand pokemon the same way pokemon understand each other, but pokemon hearing what humans say probably still get the meaning of their words even when they don't know the language because of this low level psychic power.

----------


## TaiLiu

Anyone watch _Pokémon: The Arceus Chronicles_?

*Spoiler*
Show

Apparently the title translates to "Pocket Monsters: Arceus, the One Called God," and that's a pretty apt description. There's the typical environmental protection message, but there's also this theological message that I didn't expect.

Also, I was hoping that everyone would go back in time and they didn't, which is a bummer. I guess they already did that in _Pokémon: Arceus and the Jewel of Life_.





> Are Dragon-type Pokemon very powerful?


I think they tend to be, although they do have their weaknesses. I've heard that the introduction of fairies have made them less powerful, but I haven't played any games with the Fairy type yet, so I can't say.




> Oh thats a Kanto one, the Khangaskhan one where Ash finds a baby khangaskhan, safari-dressed mother and father looking for their human child, and they find that the child is this tarzan-child apart of a kangaskhan herd, team rocket tries to capture the herd, they foil them....then the parents decided to stay with the tarzan child and the kangaskhan rather than take the child away.
> 
> that was a weird episode, not gonna lie. even had a fourth wall joke where Jessie and James pulls out a bazooka, Meowth is like "hey we're not supposed to shoot the kangashkan on this show/we're supposed capture them not kill them!" or something and they like "relax Meowth, the bazooka only shoots this big net." 
> 
> Kanto Weirdness. ya gotta love it.


Oh, I see. I'll look it up, thank you.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Anyone watch _Pokémon: The Arceus Chronicles_?
> 
> Oh, I see. I'll look it up, thank you.


1. No

2. I've checked what remains of my old pokemon lets watch reactions, its episode 33 of the anime

----------


## TaiLiu

> 1. No
> 
> 2. I've checked what remains of my old pokemon lets watch reactions, its episode 33 of the anime


Oh, wow, that was fast! Thanks for the info. Episode 33 is very early on, which I guess accounts for it.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Oh, wow, that was fast! Thanks for the info. Episode 33 is very early on, which I guess accounts for it.


oh no I checked that days ago because of our talk, I just remembered it.

----------


## TaiLiu

> oh no I checked that days ago because of our talk, I just remembered it.


Oh, I see. I appreciate you checking.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I _assure_ you, if you let the "aficionados" determine which pokemon you can and cannot prefer, the list of eligible pokemon will be nonexistent.


I'll be honest, there were more results for my search than I was expecting:







Speaking of either sexyness or Quagsires in relation to the upcoming games which means I will use the traditional spoiler tags...

*Spoiler*
Show

Paldean Wooper was confirmed a little while ago.



It's poison/ground type, which is decent but not as good as water/ground, and its abilities are water absorb (good in-game, nothing game breaking) and poison point (also pretty good, but not spectacular). Combined with the pretty low stats Wooper and Quagsire have always had it feels like they're going for a three-stager with this one, giving Paldean Quagsire an evolution, or they might be going for a "bigger and better" second stage instead.

Whether the new guy actually is better than unaware Quags remains to be seen, plus it can't possibly be as cool as Quags. (Or as sexy, as I just learned.) But still, given that I also like the nido's, they might be able to do something good with this. A non-water non-grass type with water absorb is already kind of cool, leaving new Wooper with just 3 2x weaknesses (ground, ice and psychic) and 6 good matchups (water heals, electric immunity, poison double resist, fighting, bug and fairy), if my chart is up to date. Could turn out a half-useful "pivot" (a pokémon that can switch in to prevent another one from going down without eating dirt itself) for Nuzlockes and such.


Edit, also:



Couldn't help myself in checking my other favorite as well. Although at least the number of male and female sexy versions seems to be a bit closer to equal here.

----------


## Taevyr

...I don't think I wanna catch'em all anymore

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> ...I don't think I wanna catch'em all anymore


You don't have to. It's all a lie anyway.  :Sigh:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> ...I don't think I wanna catch'em all anymore


Okay, one more then  :Small Big Grin: :



I kind of like these sexy (or "sexy") versions of decidedly unsexy pokémon. It feels less like "someone wanted porn of that, eww" and more like someone just thought "challenge accepted".

----------


## Mark Hall

> ...I don't think I wanna catch'em all anymore


With a good barrier method and some broad-spectrum antibiotics, you don't have to.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## MCerberus

desperately changing the subject, Girafarig has an evolution, farigiraf and I cannot figure out which syllable the 'g' belongs to.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> desperately changing the subject,


Good call. ;)




> Girafarig has an evolution, farigiraf and I cannot figure out which syllable the 'g' belongs to.


It reads more like the 3rd one too me, but you're right, it's a weird case.

----------


## Spore

*Spoiler: Scarlet/Violet*
Show

So Iono has been released as a gym leader and streamer. It is kind of unsurprising pokemon took so long to pick up the whole streaming and content creation thing but I have stated on the Pokemon subreddit, that I wished she was a vtuber persona of a middle-aged (or old, or young, idk) male.

For one because the memers would have a field day with him, for another because here Pokemon might even slightly step into the gender idea (what if the dude feels more secure as Iono?) and thirdly because r34 stuff would totally flip out and I enjoy a bit of chaos.

That being said I cannot see the developers being nowhere near ballsy enough, since working on Pokemon is internally known as the mentally most draining project since creativity is more or less forbidden outside company guidelines.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

So one more post from me to help get those images I posted off the landing page. ;)

I've been going back onto Showdown a bit, doing mostly monotype this time. So you have Pokémon that all share a single type, and so does the other person, but you don't know in advance which type they're using. I'm actually having some modest low-ladder succes with a ground type team that has both Quagsire and Rhydon on it. Okay, sure, it also has Sand Stream Hippowdon, Garchomp and Excadrill on it (plus Steelix, which I might have to replace because it's not doing that well and my current team is a bit too stalley maybe), but Quagsire in particular is actually doing work. It runs Amnesia and Recover to stay alive, and then Power-Up Punch into Earthquake rather than Scald or something, so stall into setup. It's a fun set, and it combines well with the sweeping threat of Garchomp and Excadrill.

So I'm having fun with more things than just burning all of your eyeballs out with linked pictures.

----------


## MCerberus

The TCG side has a similar side-mode called Gym Leader Challenge. It started as a fun casual mode for people tired of standard, but immediately evolved into an optimization problem that sapped... just all of the fun from it.

I just want to grab these guys and scream that they turned a side-event into a realm of madness where decks reach north of $200 of value.

----------


## TaiLiu

> *Spoiler: Scarlet/Violet*
> Show
> 
> So Iono has been released as a gym leader and streamer. It is kind of unsurprising pokemon took so long to pick up the whole streaming and content creation thing but I have stated on the Pokemon subreddit, that I wished she was a vtuber persona of a middle-aged (or old, or young, idk) male.
> 
> For one because the memers would have a field day with him, for another because here Pokemon might even slightly step into the gender idea (what if the dude feels more secure as Iono?) and thirdly because r34 stuff would totally flip out and I enjoy a bit of chaos.
> 
> That being said I cannot see the developers being nowhere near ballsy enough, since working on Pokemon is internally known as the mentally most draining project since creativity is more or less forbidden outside company guidelines.


*Spoiler: Ditto*
Show


I'm a little surprised they went the streamer route, actually. It feels like it'd get outdated quick, unless streamers and influencers and the like are here to stay.

Incidentally, what is Iono wearing anyway? It looks woven, so it can't be a rain jacket or something like it.

I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph.

----------


## Taevyr

Monotype runs are pretty fun: I did a water-monotype in Sapphire (I think, could be emerald) YEARS ago, and I'm currently doing a mono-ice in pokémon Reborn (pretty good fangame, 18 gyms, all 'mons up to USUM).

Found out that Snow warning Alolan Ninetales with Aurora Veil and Slush Rush Alolan Sandslash are a killer duo. Beyond that, I've essentially caught every Ice type I could find thus far (or Ice-type to be, like Crabrawler) , and switch as needed for the gyms. The "main" 6 atm would be the aforementioned two, Ice Body Avalugg for a physical wall, Levitate Cryogonal for a Special Wall, Snow warning Aurorus, and Mamoswine. All of 'em named, of course  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Celestia

> *Spoiler: Ditto*
> Show
> 
> 
> I'm a little surprised they went the streamer route, actually. It feels like it'd get outdated quick, unless streamers and influencers and the like are here to stay.
> 
> Incidentally, what is Iono wearing anyway? It looks woven, so it can't be a rain jacket or something like it.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph.


"Outdated?" What the hell are you talking about? The games come out next month. I guarantee you streaming won't suddenly die in a few weeks.

----------


## TaiLiu

> "Outdated?" What the hell are you talking about? The games come out next month. I guarantee you streaming won't suddenly die in a few weeks.


Well, of course not. A decade or more it might bethough I guess my perspective on what's "quick" may be a lil warped.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> *Spoiler: Scarlet/Violet*
> Show
> 
> So Iono has been released as a gym leader and streamer. It is kind of unsurprising pokemon took so long to pick up the whole streaming and content creation thing but I have stated on the Pokemon subreddit, that I wished she was a vtuber persona of a middle-aged (or old, or young, idk) male.


*Spoiler*
Show

This is getting kind of meta, but I watched a friend stream Pokemon Legends Arceus... He decided that the "voice" of Melli's lines would be that of an overly enthusiastic self-centered cringe streamer.  Anachronistic as it was, it strangely worked.

----------


## Celestia

> Well, of course not. A decade or more it might bethough I guess my perspective on what's "quick" may be a lil warped.


Why does it matter if a reference made in a game that comes out this year becomes outdated in a decade? That is not even worth thinking about.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Why does it matter if a reference made in a game that comes out this year becomes outdated in a decade? That is not even worth thinking about.


Well, I'm thinking about it, so I must think it's worth thinking about.  :Small Tongue: 

And I think it's worth thinking about cuz I find fiction with whatever the opposite of anachronisms are kind of jarring. Especially sci-fi, which I consider Pokemon to be. That's not everyone's experience, which is fine, but it's mine. That's why I'm thinking about it.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Emmerlaus

*Spoiler: Pokemon Violet and Orange*
Show

Can someone explain to me what the Pokemon Paradox are supposed to be? One of my friends said its supposed like the revenge of the Dream World? Like, they are reflection of Pokemon that changed with time in the Dream World? It feel like the sad excuse of "alternate timeline" comic books always use now. I liked the idea of Regional variants though.

----------


## LaZodiac

> *Spoiler: Pokemon Violet and Orange*
> Show
> 
> Can someone explain to me what the Pokemon Paradox are supposed to be? One of my friends said its supposed like the revenge of the Dream World? Like, they are reflection of Pokemon that changed with time in the Dream World? It feel like the sad excuse of "alternate timeline" comic books always use now. I liked the idea of Regional variants though.


First I heard about this. Did a search and just speculation, nothing confirmed, but an interesting idea..

Anyway; you know how in a screenshot we saw Hisuian Zoroark, and he's from Hisui's past? It's like that. Pokemon that were shunted from the past (or future) into the present.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

When I first heard about the Baton Pass move, I thought it was a very useless move but the Baton Pass is a very dangerous move.

----------


## TaiLiu

> When I first heard about the Baton Pass move, I thought it was a very useless move but the Baton Pass is a very dangerous move.


I respect that it's an impressive move competitively, but I've never been able to put it to especially good use in-game. Which is too bad.

----------


## Qwertystop

> I respect that it's an impressive move competitively, but I've never been able to put it to especially good use in-game. Which is too bad.


The main issue, I think, is that in-game battles very rarely put up enough of a fight for the ability to stack a lot of stat boosts to be more valuable than using those turns and team/move slots to just keep attacking. And in the rare case that they do, it's probably easier to level-grind the existing team you've got than to rebuild it to include a mon playing a support role.

----------


## Taevyr

> The main issue, I think, is that in-game battles very rarely put up enough of a fight for the ability to stack a lot of stat boosts to be more valuable than using those turns and team/move slots to just keep attacking. And in the rare case that they do, it's probably easier to level-grind the existing team you've got than to rebuild it to include a mon playing a support role.


Yeah, unless you go into fangames or extreme romhack versions baton pass is relatively useless outside of competitive play.

----------


## MCerberus

I was personally introduced to the wider nuances of the metagame by Cynthia's boot, planted firmly on my face

----------


## Maat Mons

Do people have strong opinions of aesthetic differences between Pokémon genders?  Do people have strong opinions on mechanical differences between Pokémon genders?  

When they add new evolutions to existing Pokémon, do they ever add them _between_ existing evolutions?  

Does anyone ever do TCG tournaments with strict caps on total deck cost?  I mean, youd have to agree on a single authoritative source for prices.  And youd need to lock in the prices at some specific point in time before the tournament.  But it would be an easy way to create weight classes.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Do people have strong opinions of aesthetic differences between Pokémon genders?  Do people have strong opinions on mechanical differences between Pokémon genders?  
> 
> When they add new evolutions to existing Pokémon, do they ever add them _between_ existing evolutions?


I can't answer anything TCG, don't play it but I can answer these I think....

1. pokemon with strong gender difference has precedent for existing since Gen 1 in Nidoran Male and Female, being counted as two different pokemon despite the same name and being two different evolutionary lines. however most pokemon don't have as strong a gender difference and those differences only show up in about Gen 4 or 5 I think? like there are a couple pokemon with a strong gender difference as a gimmick here and there, but I don't recall any particular strong opinions on any of them? like this can be very pokemon specific and very subjective because how its handled with Volbeat and Illumise is different from how its handled with like Espurr and Meowstic, or Pyroar. you can't really generalize this.

2. I don't think so, I don't recall any mid-evolutions ever being added. generally the pattern is that a previously singular pokemon gets an evolution upwards for more power like yanma getting yanmega, or something gets a baby form like sudowudo getting bonsly. Roselia is unique/unusual because it got both a baby form and an evolved form going from Gen 3 to 4 in Budew and Roserade so it became a middle evolution. like I don't recall a single instance of an evolution line getting a middle evolution, its either two or three evolutions with an evolved form or a baby form getting added to a previously singular pokemon or two form line. if I'm wrong and there is an example, I haven't heard of it, and would require combing through hundreds of pokemon wiki pages to find it. Most of the time, if something has a three form evolution line, they put it all in one generation as a full concept, probably because thats the ideal design as far as they're concerned. look at most three evolution bug, dragon or starter evolution line and notice how they barely if at all change, mega-evolution was (to my eternal disappointment) a passing gimmick and outside of that if something has a three evolution line its often made that way in one generation, works just fine as it is, while one or two offs seem to get baby or evolved forms with no middles because....thats probably better than a mid form, as baby forms are cuter and big evolved forms can be cooler or tougher or more terrifying while a mid form wouldn't have either appeal, and they're probably improving upon ideas they're revisiting because they couldn't think of any evolutions for that pokemon in a previous gen.

----------


## MCerberus

There is no official pricing on tournaments, and it wouldn't work anyway, because if a low-weight deck becomes popular the prices of the system will go CRAZY, realigning the whole system week-by-week. The most expensive decks for standard vary wildly by the rarity of the synergistic pieces and when they were printed. There's currently two $45 decks competing with $100-$170 decks. The offender for the expensive deck is requiring 10ish cards that haven't been printed for 2 years and weren't popular when they were. 


Unofficially, the community takes the average of recently-sold cards aka "Market Price" (as opposed to listing price) from a trade site called TCGplayer

edit - and for side-evolutions or things like that, gamefreak usually instead has regional "forms". These have different looks and often types, and in the case of Meowth, separate evolutions after.

----------


## Celestia

They would never add price caps to an official tournament. That would completely undermine the intended goal of selling more cards. Also, Pokémon decks don't get that expensive, anyways. They cap out at a few hundred. Now, in Yugioh, that could easily be the price of a single card, and there have been multiple times throughout history where top meta decks cost literal thousands of dollars.

----------


## MCerberus

> They would never add price caps to an official tournament. That would completely undermine the intended goal of selling more cards. Also, Pokémon decks don't get that expensive, anyways. They cap out at a few hundred. Now, in Yugioh, that could easily be the price of a single card, and there have been multiple times throughout history where top meta decks cost literal thousands of dollars.


Isn't that sort of a side-effect of  Yugioh not having rotations?

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> When they add new evolutions to existing Pokémon, do they ever add them _between_ existing evolutions?


No, they've never done that. Although I could see it happening in the future, in a kind of baby pokémon way. Say you have a 2-stager that evolves at level 32, then you could have a special middle evolution unlocked by leveling up with high friendship holding a certain item or something that learns a few extra strong moves but doesn't evolve into the regular second stage until level 48. Or you could have a regional form of a regular 2-stager that has an extra middle stage. But it's not a thing we've seen in the first 8 generations.



> Do people have strong opinions of aesthetic differences between Pokémon genders? Do people have strong opinions on mechanical differences between Pokémon genders?


That would be a very 2022 thing to do, wouldn't it? I think the minor visual differences are kind of cool, I think the move Attract is weird and suggests that Pokémon get around, I'm fine with all the existing gendered (sexed?) evolutions and such. They're kind of cool, and they're not common or even all similar enough that I can read too deep into it and find something to be mad about.

----------


## Celestia

> Isn't that sort of a side-effect of  Yugioh not having rotations?


Not really, no. Every now and then some old cards will go up in price, but Yugioh frequently  releases big reprint sets that generally keep old cards reasonably priced. The massive costs come from high rarity staple cards.

In other games, decks are largely self-contained with few or no universal cards that are good in every deck. If you're making a blue deck in Magic, you use blue cards. If you're making a red deck, you use red cards. And so on. This keeps costs low because even if there's a game-breakingly strong green card, the only ones who are going to care about it or buy it are the green players. If you don't play green decks, then you have no reason to buy it, and that keeps the demand relatively low.

Yugioh is different, though. While Yugioh does have archetypes that are often xenophobic, the game also has tons of generic support cards that are good in almost every deck. Therefore, any time a high rarity, generic card become meta defining, literally every player wants it, but there just aren't enough copies to go around. Thus, the price skyrockets. This is especially the case with extra deck monsters, hand traps, and consistency cards as every deck can benefit from them.

----------


## MCerberus

There are actually quite a bit of support and item cards in the TCG that, if not universal, are only not used in fringe cases. However once a year they release a "trainer toolkit" set that has a full set of 4 of these items that are currently standard legal. They also reprint vital cards with new art all the time.

For example, a card called "Professor's Research" gets at least one printing per base set (game generation) and an additional turbo-fun-collector print (Sonia, and then Oak for the 25th anniversary this time). This card is essentially a saving throw against a bad hand, and most decks run 3 copies. You will never find a shop league where you can't get it donated to you if you're in need.

And on top of that value is about 75% determined by the collectors. So this bad card is, last checked, my most valuable

*Spoiler*
Show


holy moly it's gone up 40% since I checked

----------


## TaiLiu

> The main issue, I think, is that in-game battles very rarely put up enough of a fight for the ability to stack a lot of stat boosts to be more valuable than using those turns and team/move slots to just keep attacking. And in the rare case that they do, it's probably easier to level-grind the existing team you've got than to rebuild it to include a mon playing a support role.


Yeah, that's true. I had a Scolipede with that move and Iron Defense. It was fun but it wasn't worth eating up a whole move slot.




> I was personally introduced to the wider nuances of the metagame by Cynthia's boot, planted firmly on my face


Yeah, she's tough. I think I remember buying and using Natural Gift specifically to defeat her.

----------


## Qwertystop

> Yeah, that's true. I had a Scolipede with that move and Iron Defense. It was fun but it wasn't worth eating up a whole move slot.
> 
> 
> Yeah, she's tough. I think I remember buying and using Natural Gift specifically to defeat her.


That's the other thing, yeah. Since everything until the postgame is fixed teams, for the rare case where there *is* an opponent tough enough to need more strategy, if level-grinding past them is impractical, building to counter them specifically is usually still easier than building a generally competitive-capable team - either focusing on types that one particular opponent is weak to, or pulling out a cheese strat that wouldn't be reliable in general but that you know this specific NPC can't handle. If I recall, sub-punch and hazard spam were usually pretty good for "cheese that the NPCs can't handle", or taking advantage of how the smarter ones get predictable with targeting weaknesses and switching.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> So this bad card is, last checked, my most valuable
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> holy moly it's gone up 40% since I checked


Wait, that's a particularly bad card? No prior evolutions (somehow), 230hp and a 3 energy attack of 250? What are your good cards like?

----------


## MCerberus

> Wait, that's a particularly bad card? No prior evolutions (somehow), 230hp and a 3 energy attack of 250? What are your good cards like?


Alright, first thing is that you notice the 3 mixed energy cost? That's a major consideration, on top of the bench damage. The short of it is that yes you can knock out something with 280hp using an equip item (that number is important in the current meta because of some important mons that sit at that total), but you're going to get smashed back AND THEN also have damage on the bench. It's generally trading negative there.

So let's look at a dragon that does work
*Spoiler*
Show




It has similar energy cost for less damage right? Well the thing is you're going to get USE out of that energy investment. For the same amount of setup, and with some deck-building shenanigans you get a 300hp mon that takes 100 less damage from every attack with a once-a-game built in full heal. And if it gets KO'd your opponent gets the same 2 prizes that dragonite gives up.

----------


## Beni-Kujaku

> Do people have strong opinions of aesthetic differences between Pokémon genders?  Do people have strong opinions on mechanical differences between Pokémon genders?  
> 
> When they add new evolutions to existing Pokémon, do they ever add them _between_ existing evolutions?  
> 
> Does anyone ever do TCG tournaments with strict caps on total deck cost?  I mean, youd have to agree on a single authoritative source for prices.  And youd need to lock in the prices at some specific point in time before the tournament.  But it would be an easy way to create weight classes.


I don't think mechanical differences between genders are really necessary, but they make for fun Pokémon once in a while (see Indeedee for example, or male Combee not being able to evolve). On the other hand, I really like that there are aesthetic differences. It enlarges the Pokémon lore and makes for interesting new forms to collect.

No, they never added middle evolutions, except if you count the likes of Porygon2 (who was added as a final evolution to Porygon, but became its middle evolution when they added Porygon-Z 2 generations later as a new evolution) or Galarian Mr.Mime (who was added as an alternate evolution to Mime Jr. the same generation they added Mr. Rime as a final evolution to Galarian Mr.Mime. Galarian Mr.Mime was hence added as a middle evolution, but only because two evolution stages were added at the same time.). That's because the "added" evolutions are only supposed to be undiscovered, but to have already existed before the generation they're introduced in. That's why existing methods of evolution never change, and you can't add a new stage between two existing ones. I guess they could introduce an alternative middle evolution in a 3-line that would still evolve into the original 3rd stage, but they never did that yet.

----------


## Celestia

> That's why existing methods of evolution never change, ...


Untrue. In Gen V and beyond, they changed how Feebas evolves due to the removal of the Beauty stat. In Gen VIII, Sliggoo no longer evolves if leveled up in the fog or rain and, instead, requires only the rain. Sword and Shield, specifically, also removed all location-based evolutions. There is no moss rock, so Eevee evolves into Leafeon with a leaf stone. There is no ice rock, so Eevee evolves into Glaceon with an ice stone. And there is no magnetic field, so Magneton and Charjabug evolve with thunder stones. Gen VIII also changed the way Eevee evolves into Sylveon due to the removal of the Affection stat. And, finally, in Legends Arceus, all trade evolutions became item evolutions; though I'm guessing this one will be reversed in Scarlet and Violet.




> ... and you can't add a new stage between two existing ones. I guess they could introduce an alternative middle evolution in a 3-line that would still evolve into the original 3rd stage, but they never did that yet.


That would be dumb. What would be the use in adding or changing only a middle stage if the Pokémon still ends the same way? They're never going to do that because it would be pointless.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> And if it gets KO'd your opponent gets the same 2 prizes that dragonite gives up.


Ah, they both count as two pokémon. That explains quite a bit. I don't know a lot of top competitive cards, just comparing the HP and damage to random stuff I have seen.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Alright, first thing is that you notice the 3 mixed energy cost? That's a major consideration, on top of the bench damage. The short of it is that yes you can knock out something with 280hp using an equip item (that number is important in the current meta because of some important mons that sit at that total), but you're going to get smashed back AND THEN also have damage on the bench. It's generally trading negative there.


You can't damage your bench if you have no pokemon on your bench.   :Small Cool: 

(This a joke.  Don't actually do that.  The last time I played Pokemon TCG the _e-Reader_ was a thing, and even I know that's a horrible idea that only works in exactly one very specific deck that is easily countered.)




> Untrue. In Gen V and beyond, they changed how Feebas evolves due to the removal of the Beauty stat. In Gen VIII, Sliggoo no longer evolves if leveled up in the fog or rain and, instead, requires only the rain. Sword and Shield, specifically, also removed all location-based evolutions.


Well, they removed all location-based evolutions for five seconds.  Then, they added Runerigus.

----------


## TaiLiu

> That's the other thing, yeah. Since everything until the postgame is fixed teams, for the rare case where there *is* an opponent tough enough to need more strategy, if level-grinding past them is impractical, building to counter them specifically is usually still easier than building a generally competitive-capable team - either focusing on types that one particular opponent is weak to, or pulling out a cheese strat that wouldn't be reliable in general but that you know this specific NPC can't handle. If I recall, sub-punch and hazard spam were usually pretty good for "cheese that the NPCs can't handle", or taking advantage of how the smarter ones get predictable with targeting weaknesses and switching.


Yeah, I think that's right.

----------


## Rater202

They just dropped a trailer revealing a ghost type that's a ghost-dog pokemon and dear god it's up there with Hisuin Zorua for cutest ghosty.

----------


## MCerberus

> They just dropped a trailer revealing a ghost type that's a ghost-dog pokemon and dear god it's up there with Hisuin Zorua for cutest ghosty.


And guess what, it's got a disturbing dex entry, though that was to be expected.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Imagine if Seto Kaiba was a Pokemon Trainer. He will have the ultimate dragon-type Pokemon team:

Rayquaza
Giratina
Dialga
Palkia
Reshiram
Zekrom

All the other Pokemon trainers will either be destroyed or quit.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Imagine if Seto Kaiba was a Pokemon Trainer. He will have the ultimate dragon-type Pokemon team:
> 
> Rayquaza
> Giratina
> Dialga
> Palkia
> Reshiram
> Zekrom
> 
> All the other Pokemon trainers will either be destroyed or quit.


Until Yugi shows up with a lot of Ice and Fairy attacks.

And actually about half that team is weak to Ground, so throw in a few Earthquakes too.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Until Yugi shows up with a lot of Ice and Fairy attacks.
> 
> And actually about half that team is weak to Ground, so throw in a few Earthquakes too.


Well, if we're talking about theme teams, Yugi's would be magic themed right? Fairy would probably work with that, but for some reason I see Yugi's pokemon being a lot of psychic/ghost/dark types. 

but then again the first duel with Kaiba, he had exodia so maybe Yugi just shows up with something like Arceus or Ultra-Necrozma to sweep his team.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Well, if we're talking about theme teams, Yugi's would be magic themed right? Fairy would probably work with that, but for some reason I see Yugi's pokemon being a lot of psychic/ghost/dark types. 
> 
> but then again the first duel with Kaiba, he had exodia so maybe Yugi just shows up with something like Arceus or Ultra-Necrozma to sweep his team.


And Joey Wheeler will have an all-fighting-type Pokemon team.  :Smile:

----------


## boj0

Nah Joey would have a team based around RNG gimmicks (so Magnitude, OHKO attackss, etc.) and weak creatures getting stronger, (stat boosts and Baton Pass). Now Tristan would definitely have an all fighting team, maybe with a random Grimsnarl.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Nah Joey would have a team based around RNG gimmicks (so Magnitude, OHKO attackss, etc.) and weak creatures getting stronger, (stat boosts and Baton Pass). Now Tristan would definitely have an all fighting team, maybe with a random Grimsnarl.


You're right. I know Weevil Underwood would have an all-bug type team and Rex Raptor would have an all-prehistoric dinosaur team.  :Smile:

----------


## Rater202

> Well, if we're talking about theme teams, Yugi's would be magic themed right? Fairy would probably work with that, but for some reason I see Yugi's pokemon being a lot of psychic/ghost/dark types. 
> 
> but then again the first duel with Kaiba, he had exodia so maybe Yugi just shows up with something like Arceus or Ultra-Necrozma to sweep his team.


It depends on which version, Yugi uses three decks in the series.

His Grandfather's deck, a rebuilt version of his grandfather's deck, and when he and Atem split apart so that Atem can earn a position in the afterlife with a duel, Yugi uses a deck themed around childish things.

The orignal version of the deck had a handful of fantasy elements, but most of his monsters were less straight-up fantasy and more like... Demons. And chaos. And at least one zombie type but he never actually used it.

The Black/Dark Magician archetype he uses is called that for a reason, they use black magic. Summoned Skull is called Summoned Archfiend in Japan and eventually spawned an entire series of Archfiend monsters.

Even Exodia is called "The Forbidden One" for a reason.

The second deck kept to that thee, replacing the monsters that didn't fit with ones that did... and also Watapod and the Magnet Warriors for reasons of utility.

So yeah, translating him into Pokemon Terms he'd be rocking lots of the more sinister take on Dark, Ghost, Fairy, and Psychic with a handful of token "cutesy" monsters.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

Does anyone know why POGO hasnt introduced Seals (the stickers you put on the Pokéball to make special effects occur when you send them out)? Theyve got different clothes and hair styles, poses, etc. for the _trainer_, and costumes for some of the Pokémon, it just seems odd to me that such an obvious customization option has been skipped over.  :Small Confused:

----------


## boj0

Pharoah the type of trainer to tell his opponent what moves he's using and still win.

----------


## Spore

Honestly Atem would use a supercheesy stall team with utility pokemon. 

Dark Magician - Mega Gardevoir
Summoned "Skull" - Zeraora 
Sarcophagus/Millenium tablet - Runerigus
Winged Dragon of Ra - Rayquaza
Kuriboh - Whimsicott
Gaia Fierce Knight/Dragon Knight - Escavalier or Corviknight, Sirfetch'd for a stretch.

----------


## Emmerlaus

I think that's how all Pokemon crossover fanfics starts: imagining which Pokemons would be flavorful to give to characters not in the Pokemon franchise LOL  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## MCerberus

> I think that's how all Pokemon crossover fanfics starts: imagining which Pokemons would be flavorful to give to characters not in the Pokemon franchise LOL


FOOLISH SAMURAI. I, AKU, HAVE HAD COUNTLESS GENERATIONS TO PERFECT THE MOST POWERFUL COLLECTION OF MINIONS. BOW BEFORE ME AND IN MY LAUGHTER I MAY GRANT YOU PRECIOUS FLEETING SECONDS OF LIFE.

*6 shuckles*

----------


## NeoVid

Now I'm trying to picture the team comps we'd get in "Evangelimon."

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Now I'm trying to picture the team comps we'd get in "Evangelimon."


Each pokemon would be representative of different aspects of their psychology; each team carefully detailed to make sure they all tell what they are like, each team taking a deep dive into their minds to explain how the loss of their mother affected them and so on and so forth....

except for Rei, who just has six of the same pokemon because she is just a stoic clone and all their moves are explosion or memento.

----------


## MCerberus

If we wanted to get really deep in weird with anime crossovers, there's something even more extra than Evangelion.

We turn stand users into trainers. We get to see a Dialga with another tiny Dialga head on its forehead.

----------


## Spore

> We turn stand users into trainers. We get to see a Dialga with another tiny Dialga head on its forehead.


Having NEVER seen Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, from the outside it just looks like a Shonen Manga parody that went too far and now is taking itself seriously.

With that said, Stand User teams would replicate their trainer's personality, which is basically half of named NPC's teams anyhow.

But if we take anime characters, and of course we start with Brock, because yea:

Onix because of course. Steelix maybe if we are generous.
Golem because Geodude.
Blissey as he enjoys Nurse Joy
Arcanine for Officer Jenny.
Crobat because maybe he is a ninja, but an awesome trainer.
Machamp because have you seen him shirtless? BROCK. HARD. ABS.

Also am I too immature/impure but the horny character in the OG show has a ROCK SNAKE and a BALL of rock? Phallic much?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Having NEVER seen Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, from the outside it just looks like a Shonen Manga parody that went too far and now is taking itself seriously.


Parody?

Jojo's was never a parody of anything. Its just freaking weird and has tactical IQ plays for its powers in the tens of thousands that most anime doesn't even come up with. heck its older than most shonen manga if we're being real, its something closer to Dragonball or Fist of the North Star than anything more recent.

----------


## Fable Wright

> Parody?
> 
> Jojo's was never a parody of anything. Its just freaking weird and has tactical IQ plays for its powers in the tens of thousands that most anime doesn't even come up with. heck its older than most shonen manga if we're being real, its something closer to Dragonball or Fist of the North Star than anything more recent.


Eh... the vibe is absolutely justifiable, though, as most arcs hammer in on something that's incredibly popular at the time and take it to ridiculous extremes. Phantom Blood was written while Victorian era shows were popular in Japan, and it wasn't a full on parody of it, but absolutely took it to absurdist extremes. I'm fairly sure Battle Tendency occurred during a pulp fiction boom after Raiders of the Lost Ark, and so forth. Diamond is Unbreakable came out relatively recently after Twin Peaks for that same vibe.

Then when the writer was tired of doing riffs off popular tropes in absurdism, he started doing something a little more original in Steel Ball Run when he was essentially doing a reconstruction of his old work, and then _Jojolion_ happened which is arguably Jojo taking itself seriously for the first time, thirty years into its run, sticking with the same story and characters for a decade.

----------


## MCerberus

Just a little video while we wait for news

*Spoiler*
Show

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I'm not sure yet if this is called pokéchaining or pokéfusions 2.0, but 10 to 20 years from now we'll look back at this and conclude I was the reason the franchise started going downhill.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> I'm not sure yet if this is called pokéchaining or pokéfusions 2.0, but 10 to 20 years from now we'll look back at this and conclude I was the reason the franchise started going downhill.


Thats clearly not Tou-Cannon lol

----------


## Spore

So I am not sure if I should buy Violet because even though PLA was a step up from regular pokemon, it felt so incredibly lackluster as a game where you should have free reign. And I feel literally no hype for the game - Violet that is. PLA united the tedious mechanics of both franchises. Level grinding and insane level curves along with mind numbingly stupid boring "study missions".

Sword and Shield I bought and enjoyed simply because the gym arenas carried the spirit of Pokemon Stadium for me. A crowd chanting for me to fight my Pokemon on the TV screen.

----------


## MCerberus

> So I am not sure if I should buy Violet because even though PLA was a step up from regular pokemon, it felt so incredibly lackluster as a game where you should have free reign. And I feel literally no hype for the game - Violet that is. PLA united the tedious mechanics of both franchises. Level grinding and insane level curves along with mind numbingly stupid boring "study missions".
> 
> Sword and Shield I bought and enjoyed simply because the gym arenas carried the spirit of Pokemon Stadium for me. A crowd chanting for me to fight my Pokemon on the TV screen.


It's perfectly normal to wait for reviews this day and age. If the feature set is not something you're interested in when it launches, then there should be no obligation to play it. Hell I skipped the DS games and don't regret it.

Personally I like the concept that they're trying to shift the formula to "adventures". Don't have to do everything in strict order, wider areas to explore, weed cats to be your best friend. I would too be really disappointed if it ended up with "haha it's the tedious research tasks from Arceus only everything's strictly railroaded".


Now then, on to leaks:
That is one sassy pig

----------


## Emmerlaus

I never preorder a game. Its not worth it. I always wait a week or two before the cheking the reviews. Or better, I watch a gameplay online if I have the time and dont mind being spoiled for that game in particular. 

Its proven that you cant trust reviews from game that arent released yet. They will send games to reviewers early in exchange of 10 stars reviews online, just so they release an early review of the game. That get a lot of clicks so they agree to this devil deal.  :Small Sigh:

----------


## Rater202

It took me way to damn long to realize that oddish was supposed to be a mandrake.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Previously on Po-Ke-Oh:

Seto: My Giratina will destroyed all of your pathetic Pokemon.

Atem: Well I'm going to choose: Arceus the Forbidden One.

Seto: Arceus! No! Impossible!

Atem: Arceus! Obliterate with your Judgement move!

Arceus used Judgement which summon multiple beams of light from the sky, KOing Giratina.

Seto: NOOOOO!!!!!!! I lost!

----------


## Taevyr

> It took me way to damn long to realize that oddish was supposed to be a mandrake.


....I'm very disappointed in myself right now.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> ....I'm very disappointed in myself right now.


I didnt know either but don't be embarassed. It's not like this was super vital information lol

Saw a whole bunch of leaks from the new Pokemon game. At least the Pokemon designs all seem decent so far. I just hope the story is going to be decent.

----------


## MCerberus

I'm hoping they have more side stories and side-stuff like the DLC storylines. In one you train a shy martial arts bear at the direction of cool dude dojo master. The other one a cryptid hunt ends up with you making contact with a nearly-forgotten guardian of the land where you must restore the old ways both for the benefit of the guardian put to save the town.

Just going through the rote gyms, dex, and evil team of the day leaves the world kind of empty.

----------


## TaiLiu

> It took me way to damn long to realize that oddish was supposed to be a mandrake.





> ....I'm very disappointed in myself right now.





> I didnt know either but don't be embarassed. It's not like this was super vital information lol


Ive always thought it like a radish. Odd plus radish equals oddish. I wasnt aware of the mandrake myth till Shadow Claw brought it up.




> Saw a whole bunch of leaks from the new Pokemon game. At least the Pokemon designs all seem decent so far. I just hope the story is going to be decent.


Im skeptical. For some reason, the mainline games tend to have pretty anemic stories. (In contrast to the side games, which for some reason go heavy on the story.)

----------


## LaZodiac

> Ive always thought it like a radish. Odd plus radish equals oddish. I wasnt aware of the mandrake myth till Shadow Claw brought it up.
> 
> 
> Im skeptical. For some reason, the mainline games tend to have pretty anemic stories. (In contrast to the side games, which for some reason go heavy on the story.)


The game's made a big deal of there being three main story quests you can follow, so I imagine it won't be thin in terms of story content. There's the typical gym challenge run, but separate from that we have the fight against Team Star that is its own storyline, and the adventuring around the lands looking for the treasure storyline.

----------


## MCerberus

> The game's made a big deal of there being three main story quests you can follow, so I imagine it won't be thin in terms of story content. There's the typical gym challenge run, but separate from that we have the fight against Team Star that is its own storyline, and the adventuring around the lands looking for the treasure storyline.


There could be a fourth depending on if they roll it into the treasure hunting/exploring. It's the Book of [Version Name] where you find out what's up with the paradox pokemon.

----------


## Celestia

> The game's made a big deal of there being three main story quests you can follow, so I imagine it won't be thin in terms of story content. There's the typical gym challenge run, but separate from that we have the fight against Team Star that is its own storyline, and the adventuring around the lands looking for the treasure storyline.


Don't let the fancy marketing get to you. Sword and Shield technically had three stories, as well. There's no guarantee that this will be any different, though I hope it will be.




> There could be a fourth depending on if they roll it into the treasure hunting/exploring. It's the Book of [Version Name] where you find out what's up with the paradox pokemon.


That's part of the Arven story, not something separate.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Don't let the fancy marketing get to you. Sword and Shield technically had three stories, as well. There's no guarantee that this will be any different, though I hope it will be.


What are you talking about? Everything in Sword and Shield was one long story, not separated out like Scarlet and Violet are.

----------


## TaiLiu

> The game's made a big deal of there being three main story quests you can follow, so I imagine it won't be thin in terms of story content. There's the typical gym challenge run, but separate from that we have the fight against Team Star that is its own storyline, and the adventuring around the lands looking for the treasure storyline.


Oh, cool! That's encouraging, though I'm hoping that they'll be woven together in the end. Otherwise it'll feel like a series of short stories instead of one larger one.

----------


## MCerberus

Well there is the problem that even the better mon stories get poorly implemented in the game some times. Even recently, you kind of forget that in Arceus

*Spoiler*
Show

The portal that drug you into the pokeworld is destroying the region and has a body count that includes one of the all-important chosen guardians. This almost sets off a holy war, but for 90% of the game you just sort of ignore that until mister "how did you get that much hair product in the 1800s" summons the devil

----------


## TaiLiu

> Well there is the problem that even the better mon stories get poorly implemented in the game some times. Even recently, you kind of forget that in Arceus
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> The portal that drug you into the pokeworld is destroying the region and has a body count that includes one of the all-important chosen guardians. This almost sets off a holy war, but for 90% of the game you just sort of ignore that until mister "how did you get that much hair product in the 1800s" summons the devil


I've never played PLA, so I guess I wasn't aware! The best mainline story I've played is probably Pokemon Black or White, and even then the story's a lil thin. So I believe you when you say sometimes they're poorly implemented.  :Small Smile:

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> What are you talking about? Everything in Sword and Shield was one long story, not separated out like Scarlet and Violet are.


Depending on the way you look at a coin:Marnie's quest to prove Spikemuth isn't just some backwoods slum and can hold its own even without a Power Spot.Sonia's journey to become a real pokemon professor.Bede's story about being a jerk.Distantly, Hop's attempt to say "Champion" as many times as possible.
Or:Quest to punch Leon in the face.How to teach a bear karate.Blue's Clues, but with legendary pokemon.

----------


## MCerberus

To be fair the main storyline would at least have to be split in "crush Hop's soul until the light of joy fades from his eyes" is separate from the Longest Day stuff. Though the Longest Day stuff does wrap Marnie/Piers stuff into it as well as all of Bede.

And I liked Blues Clues. The whole Calyrex storyline fits thematically with what the main game... attempted. I think a big problem is they never weaved in the whole "keeping traditions and cultural identity while building a better future" in tight enough to the player actions. You just do something, then are told to ignore the plot stuff and get back to the gym challenge.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Depending on the way you look at a coin:Marnie's quest to prove Spikemuth isn't just some backwoods slum and can hold its own even without a Power Spot.Sonia's journey to become a real pokemon professor.Bede's story about being a jerk.Distantly, Hop's attempt to say "Champion" as many times as possible.
> Or:Quest to punch Leon in the face.How to teach a bear karate.Blue's Clues, but with legendary pokemon.


All of those are those character's arcs during the story, not bespoke adventure paths for the player to choose as they wish. If you don't gel with Bede (for some reason) you are still obligated to interact with him in Sword and Shield. If you don't for whatever reason like your traveling companion in Scarvi, you just don't have to do his quest line and you can still play say, the gym challenge. That's why I'd say they're not different stories, just aspects of the same rpg plot.

You're right that the DLC moments are their own bespoke questlines though, so in that sense Sword and Shield has three storylines in it.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Presumably the new games will still have a level curve though. You might technically be able to play only the gyms into champion storyline, but it will involve quite some grinding, EXP sharing and/or soloing the whole thing with a starter,but if you then decide after gym 8 that you've had enough grinding for a while and you're going to play the start of another story line for a while now you'll be massively overleveled for doing so, taking away your sense that something is really happening. So for optimum enjoyment there might actually be just a pretty close order of doing things that weaves all three lines together much like that happened in previous Pokémon games.

I am kind of curious how they handle this. They had a lot longer to think about it than I did, so there might be clever level scaling involved, or maybe at least like good availability of wild encounters so you can always catch a team appropriate for what you're currently doing, or...

But if they didn't tackle that puzzle then the game might end up functionally quite similar to the other games, story wise. Just with more subtle hints about where to go now rather than full on road blocks.

Would be nice for things like monotype runs and such though, even in its most basic setup. If the electric gym is next you can do that first and ignore the other plot lines for a bit, if the grass gym is next you grind the stories for a while until you come back here.

----------


## Androgeus

My guess is that you'll be able to get a bit ahead on one of the paths, but eventually you'll come across a road block that requires you to progress one of the others (i.e. a Team Star base is in the way of any forward progress, or some rocks block the path which get removed when you deal with a Titan Pokemon)

----------


## LaZodiac

> Presumably the new games will still have a level curve though. You might technically be able to play only the gyms into champion storyline, but it will involve quite some grinding, EXP sharing and/or soloing the whole thing with a starter,but if you then decide after gym 8 that you've had enough grinding for a while and you're going to play the start of another story line for a while now you'll be massively overleveled for doing so, taking away your sense that something is really happening. So for optimum enjoyment there might actually be just a pretty close order of doing things that weaves all three lines together much like that happened in previous Pokémon games.
> 
> I am kind of curious how they handle this. They had a lot longer to think about it than I did, so there might be clever level scaling involved, or maybe at least like good availability of wild encounters so you can always catch a team appropriate for what you're currently doing, or...
> 
> But if they didn't tackle that puzzle then the game might end up functionally quite similar to the other games, story wise. Just with more subtle hints about where to go now rather than full on road blocks.
> 
> Would be nice for things like monotype runs and such though, even in its most basic setup. If the electric gym is next you can do that first and ignore the other plot lines for a bit, if the grass gym is next you grind the stories for a while until you come back here.


While I don't know yet (and am avoiding spoilers if I can help it), my guess would be that the combat challenges all scale to your level, regardless of what you actually face.

We do know, for example, you can do any of the gyms in any order, for example. The other storylines may be more linear in that sense.

----------


## Celestia

> What are you talking about? Everything in Sword and Shield was one long story, not separated out like Scarlet and Violet are.


You may have been forced to follow them all in a linear path, but that doesn't mean that Sonia's archeology has anything to do with Team Yell's nonsense. 




> While I don't know yet (and am avoiding spoilers if I can help it), my guess would be that the combat challenges all scale to your level, regardless of what you actually face.
> 
> We do know, for example, you can do any of the gyms in any order, for example. The other storylines may be more linear in that sense.


From what I understand of the early leaks, the gyms do not scale, despite their non-linear nature. I hope that is wrong or has changed in the past couple months, but I wouldn't put it past Gamefreak to do that.

----------


## MCerberus

> You may have been forced to follow them all in a linear path, but that doesn't mean that Sonia's archeology has anything to do with Team Yell's nonsense.


That's what makes Bede is important as a character. By tying the archeology to Rose, you allow the Marnie storyline to work its way naturally in. It's why it isn't out of left field when team Yell through Piers end up on team good guy. There's actually a lot of signs of thought and planning into how this all ties together but they just... never let the story breath or distracted you with other things so you forget about it from one scene to the other.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> We do know, for example, you can do any of the gyms in any order, for example. The other storylines may be more linear in that sense.


They're actually doing that in an official game this time? Nice.

I might have to start looking for a cheap old Switch somewhere.

----------


## Lord Raziere

....yeah I'm going to wait until reviews come in on Scarlet and Violet before I make my decision on them, I still haven't finished Legends Arceus, I've reconnected my switch internet connection recently so progress has resumed but this is why I won't be playing games on the nintendo eshop after this and Monster Hunter Rise.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I'm so excited about Generation 9 Pokedex tomorrow.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Spore

> ....yeah I'm going to wait until reviews come in on Scarlet and Violet before I make my decision on them, I still haven't finished Legends Arceus, I've reconnected my switch internet connection recently so progress has resumed but this is why I won't be playing games on the nintendo eshop after this and Monster Hunter Rise.


And It looks like **** and plays like It too. Seems like BDSP looks positively charming by comparison. Skipping that one and will buy Brilliant Diamond used instead .

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Great news, everybody. Pokemon has reached its 1,000+ Pokemon milestone.  :Smile:

----------


## boj0

Probably the first mainline game I skip, SS felt like a slog and the DLC didn't get me back in; honestly I'll probably get all my info from YouTube and just wait for Showdown to update.

----------


## Androgeus

> And It looks like **** and plays like It too. Seems like BDSP looks positively charming by comparison. Skipping that one and will buy Brilliant Diamond used instead .


You'd probably get more bang for your buck buying an old handheld and one of the older games.

----------


## Spore

Well, I am glad I withheld my money from GF this time (and for BDSP). I am nostalgic for Pokemon, and I enjoy the general game concept of a flexible party, but I am not paying money for this. Short of fan games I am probably done with Pokemon. Now if Digimon had any decent games...

----------


## mjp1050

What Pokemon game has the best quality-of-life features? I've played Shield and Crystal, but both games have their own brand of jank that makes them difficult to enjoy.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> What Pokemon game has the best quality-of-life features? I've played Shield and Crystal, but both games have their own brand of jank that makes them difficult to enjoy.


Im not sure what you mean Do you mean things like Pokémon Amie to feed your Neopets or play with them? 

Pokémon Snap might be to your liking.

----------


## mjp1050

> Im not sure what you mean Do you mean things like Pokémon Amie to feed your Neopets or play with them? 
> 
> Pokémon Snap might be to your liking.


I should've specified I was asking about mainline games. I'm not too interested in side games.

Crystal is fine, but it's a little hard to play sometimes because of the Gameboy's general clunkiness (not that that's the game's fault, but still).

Shield has significantly more streamlined gameplay, but it does hold your hand a lot, and it's hard to go more than 20ft without triggering a cutscene, neither of which is very fun.

I guess I'm trying to find a game that's a balance between those two, so I can actually play a Pokemon game without feeling like I'm fighting against it to enjoy it.

EDIT: Or, to put it another way, which mainline Pokemon game is the _least_ aggravating to play nowadays?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> I should've specified I was asking about mainline games. I'm not too interested in side games.
> 
> Crystal is fine, but it's a little hard to play sometimes because of the Gameboy's general clunkiness (not that that's the game's fault, but still).
> 
> Shield has significantly more streamlined gameplay, but it does hold your hand a lot, and it's hard to go more than 20ft without triggering a cutscene, neither of which is very fun.
> 
> I guess I'm trying to find a game that's a balance between those two, so I can actually play a Pokemon game without feeling like I'm fighting against it to enjoy it.


lets see....

Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire are pretty good in my opinion, they don't have many cutscenes and when they do it mostly involves their legendaries doing things and it doesn't hold your hand I think.

Pokemon Platinum I've heard is good, but its 4th gen and thus everything is slow as molasses, whether its saving, surfing or dealing damage, everything just takes A While. heard 4th gen remakes fixed that issue so if your okay with the remades of pearl and diamond probably being easier....

Pokemon Black and White is the most streamlined your going to get without falling into 6th gen and onwards handholdy super-easy stuff, but it does have more cutscenes than the generations before it for its story, I wouldn't say its as much as later gens though, or at least they're not egregious

never played Black and White 2, but I've heard good things about them.

wouldn't recommend past that though, 6th gen and onwards is where the tons of cutscenes and handholding stuff really start happening.

----------


## Qwertystop

OR/AS and HG/SS both had a bunch of little tuning quality-of-life stuff, much of which did not return in other games (including each other). Running shoes as a toggle instead of a held button, calls to tell you when a trainer was rematchable or there was an egg at the daycare or whatever (but without jarring you out of the game, it just popped up on the bottom screen without stopping you), soaring as a fast-travel option that also worked on routes, four set key items instead of one, the search-for-a-specific-encounter thing that I can't remember the name of, etc.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

Sun/Moon would be my go-to for quality of life-ness: it's hard to beat Poke Pelago for _ease_ of EV training and TMs are reusable.  Unfortunately, it also has quite a bit of hand-holding, so with the clarification that you want to go further than 20 ft without triggering a cutscene, I'll add a vote for Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby instead.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Great news, everybody. Pokemon has reached its 1,000+ Pokemon milestone.


Oh cool! I had no idea. Do you know where to look for the national Pokedex numbers?

----------


## MCerberus

I'm the guy that just messed around in Arceus scouring all the mons before going on with the plot so I'm having fun so far. Bought it because I need something to empty my brain because of [dire family events].

The pokemon on the box being a sandwich stealing troll actually helps improve my mood

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Oh cool! I had no idea. Do you know where to look for the national Pokedex numbers?


I was going to say Bulbapedia but it looks like they dont have the numbers for the most recent Gen yet. Serebii doesnt even have that yet as far as I can tell.

----------


## enderlord99

I only count 70 new pokemon from that link, beyond the 905 that already existed.

That's 25 short.

----------


## Rater202

> I only count 70 new pokemon from that link, beyond the 905 that already existed.
> 
> That's 25 short.


Are you counting the Paradoox Pokemon in that? The version exclusive past/future versions of modern Pokemon?

Incidentally, the Futuristic Pokemon all feel lazy to me. They're all just robot versions of the modern Pokemon.

The Ancient Pokemon by contrast actually look like they could be naturally occurring ancestors of modern Pokemon, with relatively unique designs compared to their descendants and each other.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I only count 70 new pokemon from that link, beyond the 905 that already existed.
> 
> That's 25 short.


Apparently there's an official 1000th pokémon.

----------


## enderlord99

> Apparently there's an official 1000th pokémon.


I miscounted the first time, but that's number 977 according to a recount.

I mean, unless Bulbapedia skips some and/or puts them out-of-order.

----------


## tonberrian

Serebii has 906 to 1010 as the Paldean pokedex. I don't think there's an official numbering yet for who goes where in that, but it does appear to be over 100 new pokemon in S/V.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I'm so happy that Game Freak made a huge milestone.

On a non-related Pokemon topic: I feel like defense is very important in battles. I know so many people don't like defensive Pokemon because they annoyed the heck out of players. But in my opinion, I feel that defensive Pokemon are very useful and important in battles.  :Smile:

----------


## Lord Raziere

got a lot done today on Legends Arceus. revisiting early areas can really help with catching a lot of pokemon for the dex.

as for Scarlet/Violet....I've decided to give it a chance. what little I've seen it from streams doesn't look that bad. like these reviews constantly harp on the performance issues but they don't really talk about how often they happen and I'm going to give Violet a chance just to see if all this isn't overblown. maybe I'm foolish and it will prove the reviews right but maybe the issues aren't as big as they seem and the internet is just making a mountain out of a molehill as it is sometimes known to do.

----------


## Rising Phoenix

Picked up a copy of Scarlet a few days ago. Yeah it has performance issues, but this game has charm. I am enjoying my journey thus far.

----------


## Spore

> Picked up a copy of Scarlet a few days ago. Yeah it has performance issues, but this game has charm. I am enjoying my journey thus far.


Can people get a bit more specific? All I read about SV is that it "is nice", it "has charm", it got "creative pokemon" and a "variety of teambuilding options for the early game". Cant get too concrete now can you? I do not give a flying flip about story revelations, just spoil me, but give a bit more info PLEASE.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I miscounted the first time, but that's number 977 according to a recount.
> 
> I mean, unless Bulbapedia skips some and/or puts them out-of-order.


I think the paradox pokémon count separately, as they have separate names. The "regional fakes" like Wiglett and Wugtrio also count.

----------


## MCerberus

I think I can explain it, at least where I'm up to now.
This is the game closest to just having casual sort of strung together adventures. It's like the fantasy of an anime, or why there have been so many attempts to make a pokemon ttg.

You have your goals, and along the way you make friends, learn more about the world, and it seems like they're all leaning to a conclusion where they all clump together. Your rival this time is sort of a simp for you, but everyone else you slowly get to know better. You're sort of just vibing in a world where, for once, there's no primal apocalypse 15 seconds from happening. It's just sometimes you on the top of a windmill tower watching a group of skiddo get lead around by an evolved leader.

The bugs are there, there are some mechanical back-steps, they desperately need another engineering pass on the engine. So, like, wait for a patch, and don't power rush to the endgame

----------


## LaZodiac

> Are you counting the Paradoox Pokemon in that? The version exclusive past/future versions of modern Pokemon?
> 
> Incidentally, the Futuristic Pokemon all feel lazy to me. They're all just robot versions of the modern Pokemon.
> 
> The Ancient Pokemon by contrast actually look like they could be naturally occurring ancestors of modern Pokemon, with relatively unique designs compared to their descendants and each other.


I mostly agree, though the Donphan looks kinda good, and Iron Valiant is a mood if there ever was one.

Anyway I'm loving the game. I'm built different so I've experienced basically none of even the mild performance issues, which is letting me fully soak in the good; and the good is so good. Having finished post game and working on getting 100% dex (cause I actually feel like I can do it!) I can say this is the most fun I've had with Pokemon since Sun and Moon, and is certainly my personal favorite.

----------


## TaiLiu

> I was going to say Bulbapedia but it looks like they dont have the numbers for the most recent Gen yet. Serebii doesnt even have that yet as far as I can tell.


Yeah, I checked Bulbapedia first thing and saw that the numbers weren't up. That's too bad.




> I only count 70 new pokemon from that link, beyond the 905 that already existed.
> 
> That's 25 short.


I wonder how people are counting them up to 1000+. Like, are they counting the regional variants?




> Serebii has 906 to 1010 as the Paldean pokedex. I don't think there's an official numbering yet for who goes where in that, but it does appear to be over 100 new pokemon in S/V.


I guess we don't have a national dex anymore, but there's still the numbers in like... Pokemon HOME or something, right?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I can't wait for Pokemon Generation 10 but that's a few years from now. :smile;

----------


## tonberrian

My game softlocked in a tera raid and I couldn't get out. I had turned off autosave. My last save was some 4 gyms and 20 pokemon ago.

I am _peeved._

----------


## PhantomFox

> My game softlocked in a tera raid and I couldn't get out. I had turned off autosave. My last save was some 4 gyms and 20 pokemon ago.
> 
> I am _peeved._


I mean, yeah, that sucks.  But on the other hand, you both turned off autosave (understandable) and then didn't save manually for a long period of time (one reason autosave exists).  Crashes SHOULDN'T happen, true, but...

----------


## Spore

> I think I can explain it, at least where I'm up to now.
> This is the game closest to just having casual sort of strung together adventures. It's like the fantasy of an anime, or why there have been so many attempts to make a pokemon ttg.
> 
> You have your goals, and along the way you make friends, learn more about the world, and it seems like they're all leaning to a conclusion where they all clump together. Your rival this time is sort of a simp for you, but everyone else you slowly get to know better. You're sort of just vibing in a world where, for once, there's no primal apocalypse 15 seconds from happening. It's just sometimes you on the top of a windmill tower watching a group of skiddo get lead around by an evolved leader.
> 
> The bugs are there, there are some mechanical back-steps, they desperately need another engineering pass on the engine. So, like, wait for a patch, and don't power rush to the endgame


Thanks for the headsup. I'll pass on the game entirely though. I have enough games in the backlog (including PLA) that I dont need a subpar open world game.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Last night, I have a dream about Pokemon: They're the high council of all Pokemon types chosen by Arceus. All 18 Pokemon Master Trainers represent each type. They are the judges to see what crimes the other trainers committed that are Pokemon-related. They're Lawful Good. The council is called The Supreme Council of Arceus. I feel like that I'm going to write a fan fiction story about it.  :Smile:

----------


## Celestia

> I should've specified I was asking about mainline games. I'm not too interested in side games.
> 
> Crystal is fine, but it's a little hard to play sometimes because of the Gameboy's general clunkiness (not that that's the game's fault, but still).
> 
> Shield has significantly more streamlined gameplay, but it does hold your hand a lot, and it's hard to go more than 20ft without triggering a cutscene, neither of which is very fun.
> 
> I guess I'm trying to find a game that's a balance between those two, so I can actually play a Pokemon game without feeling like I'm fighting against it to enjoy it.
> 
> EDIT: Or, to put it another way, which mainline Pokemon game is the _least_ aggravating to play nowadays?


The best overall experience is going to be Gen 5. Both Black/White and Black 2/White 2 are the best mainline Pokémon games as they're definitely the ones Gamefreak put the most care and effort into. Next best would be the Gen 3 remakes, Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire. Gen 6 had some truly great features, but X/Y, unfortunately, had other issues. Third place would probably be Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon. Overall, the games are good, but the big problems with are particularly big. Everything else isn't really worth mentioning.

----------


## Rising Phoenix

> Can people get a bit more specific? All I read about SV is that it "is nice", it "has charm", it got "creative pokemon" and a "variety of teambuilding options for the early game". Cant get too concrete now can you? I do not give a flying flip about story revelations, just spoil me, but give a bit more info PLEASE.


Essentially what Cerberus said. There are mechanical issues, but I honestly don't notice them much anymore. (but yes, please give us an optimization patch game freak).

I just enjoy heading of in a direction and seeing whatever happens- it feels like an actual trip. Sure, the views are not as amazing as Xenoblade or BotW, but they are nice, and the areas actually feel different. It's not just forest zone, grass zone, beach zone etc- its a Mediterranean savannah, it's a red canyon, it's an actual mountain. There is even a semblance of an ecosystem with how the pokemon behave.

As for the crunch well I am not the most qualified to talk about it as honestly, I do not care about it much.

----------


## MCerberus

Exceptionally minor example not plot related or anything

*Spoiler*
Show

So there are eeveelution minibosses. Presumably all of them. They aren't advertised at all. They're all out of the way at the end of mazes and stuff and are not only level "beat your face in" for the zone but terra.

And you just see them by going off the beaten track on the way to the next badge activity you desire. There's lots of little things like that. Evolved mons in zones where they're not supposed to be being a one-off spawn watching over their kin. Caves that are just, like, full of stat items. Nature mints on top of a hill.


edit - oh and I just realized my Talonflame  isn't getting brave bird until level... 83?!

----------


## Androgeus

> My game softlocked in a tera raid and I couldn't get out. I had turned off autosave. My last save was some 4 gyms and 20 pokemon ago.
> 
> I am _peeved._


Im guessing its too late now, but the game does keep a back up save

----------


## LaZodiac

> Exceptionally minor example not plot related or anything
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> So there are eeveelution minibosses. Presumably all of them. They aren't advertised at all. They're all out of the way at the end of mazes and stuff and are not only level "beat your face in" for the zone but terra.
> 
> And you just see them by going off the beaten track on the way to the next badge activity you desire. There's lots of little things like that. Evolved mons in zones where they're not supposed to be being a one-off spawn watching over their kin. Caves that are just, like, full of stat items. Nature mints on top of a hill.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure Brave Bird is a TM so you can find it early.

Also yeah, regarding that small spoiler bit... I do love it. I love **** like that. This game is full of just, the best tiniest details.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

So, spoiler alert, Ash Ketchum, the famous ten year old with a couple of decades of experiences, seems to be heading for a retirement. He's reached the point where your DM says "Okay, that's an NPC now. You need to play something else. How about this Goh NPC we've build together?" So this seems like a good time to ask ourselves one final time: what would Ash's best possible team look like? It would be easy to just point to his team from the gen 8 championship, or even the one from the gen 6 championship, they're good teams full of good pokémon. But they do both double up a bit much on certain types and weaknesses, and I think because of this I've found an answer that might be better and might in addition satisfy more fans of the series, or make them hate it if like me they have an automatic kneejerk reaction against anything that's too popular, because we're going to be seeing some popular pokémon.

Now the first pokémon I need to pick is Pikachu, because a team without Pikachu might be the best team you can build from Ash's pokémon, but it wouldn't be Ash's best possible team, because Ash would never use that team. So slot one, Pikachu.

Slot 2 and 3 are pretty straightforward picks too. Ash-Greninja is the absolute star of his gen 6 team and has such a strong bond with Ash that he's basically a free extra mega evolution, even if there are rules against using actual mega's or limiting their use. Lucario also seems pretty obvious. Even if it wouldn't have the mega evolution there's still the whole Ash as an aura guardian thing they've been building for generations. Ash can seemingly help power up Lucario's attacks through this aura connection and there even seems to be some some of empowering connection all the way to Greninja through their common bond with Ash.

This is where it gets tricky. I'm trying to avoid picking two pokémon of the same type or three with the same weakness, which is a mark against a lot of strong picks. Melmetal and Sirfetch'd (by the way, I don't remember who it was, but someone here came up with the much better name Lanchallot) overlap with Lucario, Dracovish overlaps with Greninja, Gengar would add a third ground weakness (Lucario and Pikachu) and a lot of the other logical choices to follow up with are dragon types. Between Goodra, Noivern, Naganadel, Dragonite and the Dracovish that already has a mark against it we need to either exclude all but one or at best two and live with a double type. I'm going to choose to add Dragonite first. It's a pseudo-legend, it was on Ash's very successful gen 8 team, with its flying typing it helps compensate for the two pokémon with a shared ground type weakness and of the others Naganadel might not actually be available, I think he's off being the king of another dimension or something. (Greninja is also off on a mission to save the world or something, but we'll donate all of Ash's other pokémon to that cause, Zygarde has to be okay with that.)

So, Pikachu, Greninja, Lucario, Dragonite, and two slots left. This is the last point at which I can choose to give this team a feature that has been a staple of many of Ash's teams, although ironically mostly his less successful ones: a fire-water-grass core. These three types have great synergy, both offensive and defensive, and with so many very good options having overlapping types and problematic weaknesses with the picks already there it might be worth looking into. So the grass type would be Sceptile, that seems like easily Ash's most accomplished and competitive grass pokémon. The choice between the fire types is harder. Infernape and Incineroar are two of the front runners, very powerful pokémon, but Infernape overlaps in type with Lucario, Incineroar overlaps in type with Greninja, both do add that third ground type weakness we were trying to avoid, and Incineroar adds a third fighting weakness. The only way we get a team out of this where no weakness occurs more than twice is if we allow ourselves to pick one single type twice and add Talonflame. Or... Charizard. I told you I was going to pick popular pokémon. Maybe just give him a shock collar or something to make him listen to Ash. (That's a joke.)

No weaknesses occur more than twice, and all the ones that do occur twice are compensated for by at least two resistances or immunities, except for rock and fairy which are both resisted by only one pokémon (but with the resistance for rock being the 4x resistance on Lucario). Even all the weaknesses that occur only ones all have at least one resistance to them to compensate, and offensively the team is just as diverse. The average base stat total also lies somewhere between "through the roof" and "only very high because Pikachu is there". Strangely enough not counting Pikachu there are only two mon from his gen 8 team here and one from gen 6, with a mon from gen 3 and a gen 1/recurring pick completing the list. But these non gen 6 or 8 stragglers do seem to be pokémon that stood out as powerful within their generations. I have only two regrets. The first is that I didn't pick any ground types. I like ground types. My second regret is not bringing the Snorlax that can know 6 moves at ones. But the only mon it could replace if I wanted to stick to not having three mon with the same weakness are Greninja and Lucario. And I explained why those were pick 2 and 3.

So that's my attempt at finding Ash's strongest possible team:

Pikachu
Greninja
Lucario
Dragonite
Sceptile
Charizard

Anything obvious (or less obvious) I forgot?

(Edit after there were already some replies: I could remove that one double type by replacing Dragonite with Goodra, but I don't think that really gives the team anything overall. Yeah sure, there's a bit less weakness against rock and ice, but also less stab moves and a pokémon who was on an individual level less of a celebrated battler than Dragonite.)

----------


## LaZodiac

You forgot Gengar has levitate and it sweeps your entire team because of a missed earthquake but beyond that this looks reasonably sold.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Gengar has levitate


Ash's Gengar has that? I assumed it was a gen 7+ style Gengar with Cursed Body. (A change I only knew about because, well, I really like ground types.) Bulbapedia also seems to think that this is the case.

Still a very good pokémon of course. Seems to be well versed in the arts of both haunting and poisoning, and with no overlapping types and ground being the only weakness it shares with any of the others it could basically be used instead of any mon on this team with little trouble.

----------


## LaZodiac

> Ash's Gengar has that? I assumed it was a gen 7+ style Gengar with Cursed Body. (A change I only knew about because, well, I really like ground types.) Bulbapedia also seems to think that this is the case.
> 
> Still a very good pokémon of course. Seems to be well versed in the arts of both haunting and poisoning, and with no overlapping types and ground being the only weakness it shares with any of the others it could basically be used instead of any mon on this team with little trouble.


... this is the first I've realized Gengar loses levitate. Huh.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I googled the question, and apparently I'm [sarcastic voice:] super original to the point where there's basically almost consencus. Infernape is often used instead of Charizard, which is slightly less efficient based on types but very similar in terms of roles and definitely fair based on their dedication and win records.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

On a whole other topic, I've played my first few Showdown matches with the new gimmick, terastallization, a word so difficult to spell googling the right wrong spelling won't even get you redirected to the correct version. The short version for people who have avoided the spoilers so far: your pokémon becomes a defensive monotype, the "tera type" of that individual pokémon, but an offensive double- or tripletype, the tera type plus its original typing. The teratype can even be one of the original two types in which case the STAB bonus for that type goes up from +50% to +100%. And as always my first concerns are what it means for my favorite two pokémon: Rhydon and Quagsire. And for Rhydon I think this is actually quite a good gimmick. Switching into the bug type gives you surprise resistance to ground, grass and fighting, and at the very least a neutral impact from water and steel, but it also powers up your megahorn, making it more powerful than STAB Earthquake and potentially worth the 15% miss chance. Combined with eviolite and Rock Polish that seems like quite a decent toolkit. Predictable maybe, but pretty cool. For Quagsire the whole thing doesn't seem to do too much.

I am kind of disappointed that Smogon has ruled that in a monotype match all of your tera types must be your team's main type. Who knows, it might still change, or at the very least it might make monotype teams more viable (low) on the regular ladders.

----------


## TaiLiu

> So, spoiler alert, Ash Ketchum, the famous ten year old with a couple of decades of experiences, seems to be heading for a retirement. He's reached the point where your DM says "Okay, that's an NPC now. You need to play something else. How about this Goh NPC we've build together?"


I'm a lil skeptical. He still hasn't reached his goal of being a Pokémon Master, whatever that is, so there's still reason to keep him around. And if the writers never let him age or develop or achieve his goals, I think we'll continue seeing him till the end of the TV show.

----------


## tonberrian

Just finished the main story content of Scarlet. Despite its flaws, I think this is my favorite pokemon game. Much better than Sw/Sh in that i actually feel excited for the dlc.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> I'm a lil skeptical. He still hasn't reached his goal of being a Pokémon Master, whatever that is, so there's still reason to keep him around. And if the writers never let him age or develop or achieve his goals, I think we'll continue seeing him till the end of the TV show.



Spoiler for episodes I think haven't aired in English yet, if that's a thing anyone cares about**:

*Spoiler*
Show

What a pokémon master is still hasn't been defined, but he did become the ultimate champion of the world by representing Alola in a tournament of champions and winning, in a final match that went out of its way to show and call back to every single pokémon and human that was important in the overall 8 generation long journey. And now the remaining episodes of the season will be about Goh trying to go after Mew, Ash isn't even there with him. I haven't really followed the rest of this series, but it feels like more of a passing the torch moment than we had so far. I'm sure Ash will continue traveling, I'm just not sure we're going to have a show about the official world champion travelling around being better than everyone else.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

The whole "Pokemon Master" gig doesn't exist. I hate to be a downer but the reason why people are still saying "Pokemon Master" is to make money for people to buy Pokemon games and merchandise.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Spoiler for episodes I think haven't aired in English yet, if that's a thing anyone cares about**:
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> What a pokémon master is still hasn't been defined, but he did become the ultimate champion of the world by representing Alola in a tournament of champions and winning, in a final match that went out of its way to show and call back to every single pokémon and human that was important in the overall 8 generation long journey. And now the remaining episodes of the season will be about Goh trying to go after Mew, Ash isn't even there with him. I haven't really followed the rest of this series, but it feels like more of a passing the torch moment than we had so far. I'm sure Ash will continue traveling, I'm just not sure we're going to have a show about the official world champion travelling around being better than everyone else.


*Spoiler*
Show

Oh, I see. That's a reasonable assumption. I guess my own beliefs lean towards keeping Ash around as the main character, since the writers are hesitant to let Ash even define his goal. Like, just cuz you're the strongest trainer in the world doesn't make you a Master. Ash very specifically says that, and I think that's an intentional move by the writers. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.  :Small Smile: 





> The whole "Pokemon Master" gig doesn't exist. I hate to be a downer but the reason why people are still saying "Pokemon Master" is to make money for people to buy Pokemon games and merchandise.


Huh? In the TV show, Ash always says that his goal is to be a Pokemon Master. I agree that it's intentionally ambiguous and unclear what being a Pokemon Master entails.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> Oh, I see. That's a reasonable assumption. I guess my own beliefs lean towards keeping Ash around as the main character since the writers are hesitant to let Ash even define his goal. Like, just cuz you're the strongest trainer in the world doesn't make you a Master. Ash very specifically says that, and I think that's an intentional move by the writers. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see. 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? In the TV show, Ash always says that his goal is to be a Pokemon Master. I agree that it's intentionally ambiguous and unclear what being a Pokemon Master entails.


Well, it's just a gimmick to get kids and adults to buy their merchandise. Someone mentioned in this forum a long time ago (I'm not sure what the member's name is) about the real truth of the Pokemon Master and it is all fake just to get their merchandise.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Well, it's just a gimmick to get kids and adults to buy their merchandise. Someone mentioned in this forum a long time ago (I'm not sure what the member's name is) about the real truth of the Pokemon Master and it is all fake just to get their merchandise.


I don't get it. Like, I guess I agree in the sense that their merchandise is the biggest money-maker they got. Hence the constant games that come out with new Pokemon, and the anime always displaying new and different Pokemon, and the encouragement to "catch 'em all." But they don't need the term "Pokemon Master" to do that.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I don't get it. Like, I guess I agree in the sense that their merchandise is the biggest money-maker they got. Hence the constant games that come out with new Pokemon, the anime always displaying new and different Pokemon, and the encouragement to "catch 'em all." But they don't need the term "Pokemon Master" to do that.


I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that is how the business industry works especially in the video game genre.  :Frown:

----------


## Spore

There is no need to be this cynical.

Pokemon has many adult fans who understand it is a franchise made to make money. And the "goal" is just to have fun with your pokemon. i guess the main games have the goal of beating and winning the Pokemon League. But the message of Pokemon is clear to me.

It is one of self improvement and learning, which many young kids can relate to. It is to find new (Pokemon) friends or fellow players/trainers. Aside from a very grating Pokemon card tournament opponent who gloated in destroying me in a game as a kid (you sure beat that kid with the starter deck with your upgraded and competitive deck, my man) I havent run into annoying people with Pokemon.

I feel if you cannot accept other writers, producers and artists having selfish goals with their art, you will never have any fun. Mozart did write their music to piss off competitors. Picasso enjoyed the attention. Pokemon is paying many jobs and the franchise makes people happy (for a good wad of cash, yes).

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> There is no need to be this cynical.
> 
> Pokemon has many adult fans who understand it is a franchise made to make money. And the "goal" is just to have fun with your pokemon. I guess the main games have the goal of beating and winning the Pokemon League. But the message of Pokemon is clear to me.
> 
> It is one of self-improvement and learning, which many young kids can relate to. It is to find new (Pokemon) friends or fellow players/trainers. Aside from a very grating Pokemon card tournament opponent who gloated about destroying me in a game as a kid (you sure beat that kid with the starter deck with your upgraded and competitive deck, my man) I haven't run into annoying people with Pokemon.
> 
> I feel if you cannot accept other writers, producers, and artists having selfish goals with their art, you will never have any fun. Mozart did write their music to piss off competitors. Picasso enjoyed the attention. Pokemon is paying many jobs and the franchise makes people happy (for a good wad of cash, yes).


I wasn't being cynical or anything like that. I do give them props for making their business successful and for keeping their fans entertaining for so many years. This isn't hated toward Gamefreak at all.

----------


## Spore

If you think your last posts were not cynical, you either do not understand what cynicism means or you need to reflect on your own thoughts a bit more. And I don't mean this as a personal attack or anything.

----------


## Lord Raziere

Been playing new pokemon so far...
*Spoiler: Two gyms into Violet*
Show


Its fun. not seeing any particular performance issues myself, everything seems to be working fine.

I chose Sprigatito, yes its evolving to be on two legs, my starter is only second form and looking awesome, I don't care about four leg stans and their problems with what is basically pokemon tradition at this point.

what I've noticed there is a lot of birds in this region. like, rookidie, starly, fetchling, squawkabilly, oricorio, pretty sure I saw wingulls at some point so thats there to, flamigo, psyduck.....is spain just the land of the birds or something? because there is a ridiculous amount of birds in Paldea. 

also sprigatito, litleo, shinx, think I saw a meowth once, are there similar levels of cat to try and take care of all the birds?

Nemona is a better friendly rival than both Hop and Hau. I'm sorry but that just how it is, just how I feel. the detail that she already did the champion thing and is just doing it again because she likes battling that much makes me respect her more than some person acting like they're my exact equal when I keep beating them. like she is a pro who has done this before but is having so much fun she keeps doing and perfecting it because she can, and she is just waiting for me to get on her level, that I can get. she is just choosing the starter weak to me to have a challenge because she's done it all, somehow I just find her better executed than previous attempts at a friendly rival. 

terastilization is something I rarely use and when I do its with the following joke:
Now we shall fight with silly hats!
just doesn't seem worth using most of the time. 

I have so many potions, revives and so on without spending a single cent to get any of them. a challenge run of this game would have to ban picking up items from the ground to keep you from getting a surplus of medicine and such.

new pokemon I like:
Tandemouse. just these two mice that everything in sync forever....yet weirdly have no gender symbol. does that mean they're an ice climbers set up where each pair is a wife and husband?

female Oinkologne. just the prettiest, most floral scented pig, its great. I love my pretty hog diva in too much makeup.

Charcadet. who needs the spicy pepper starter when you can have an awesome fire knight? 

my Flamigo has been doing work, say what you will about the design just literally being a flamingo, but its been one of my strongest pokemon so far.

I laughed when Pawmi evolved into Pawmo. it was such a slight change compared to most evolutions I've seen. 

Am I weird for wanting a normal cyclizar to ride when I already have Miraidon? like, I feel cyclizar is cool enough on its own.

Gallighoul is....interesting. I'm hoping it gets better when it levels up and not a delibird situation where its just there for a gimmick.

Fidough is cute. but also makes me wonder: if food pokemon like it exist, what even counts as "meat" in this world anymore?

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> If you think your last posts were not cynical, you either do not understand what cynicism means or you need to reflect on your thoughts a bit more. And I don't mean this as a personal attack or anything.


Well, I do apologize for that and I know what cynical and cynicism mean.  :Annoyed:

----------


## MCerberus

> Been playing new pokemon so far...
> *Spoiler: Two gyms into Violet*
> Show
> 
> 
> Its fun. not seeing any particular performance issues myself, everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> I chose Sprigatito, yes its evolving to be on two legs, my starter is only second form and looking awesome, I don't care about four leg stans and their problems with what is basically pokemon tradition at this point.
> 
> ...


*Spoiler: MYBIRDS*
Show

There's also honchcrow, swablu, and a new regional line off the top of my head. I'm really just happy that my OP murderbird buddy the talonflame line made another appearance.
Also evolve the Tandemouse. It gets even more adorable

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I like the Legendary dragon Pokemon in Generation 9. Very nice design indeed.  :Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

NO NINTENDO. NINTENDO WHY
*Spoiler: Ending*
Show

Nintendo: "you get it right. the real treasure in area 0"  
Me: "Please no"
Nintendo: "you know what it was"
Me: "stop"
Nintendo: "it was the friends you made along the way"

I did feel sorry for the ghost in the shell robot I had to defeat with the power of frien actually looking back it was sandwiches. We ended up defeating the failsafe with sandwiches. Also life has just been an endless series of gut punches for one of the main party members hasn't it?

----------


## TaiLiu

> I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that is how the business industry works especially in the video game genre.


Sorry, I'm a lil confused. What does this have to do with the term "Pokemon Master"? :O




> It is one of self improvement and learning, which many young kids can relate to. It is to find new (Pokemon) friends or fellow players/trainers.


I think that's right, though arguably it's all subsumed as part of a larger power fantasy for kids. You don't go to school and do what the grown-ups tell you to do. Instead, you travel around and beat grown-ups and sometimes stop an evil plot that the grown-ups never could've stopped without you. You matter in a way that's not true for most actual children (or adults).

Also, pro-animal and pro-environment messages abound, too, though it's usually more explicit in the movies.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Sorry, I'm a lil confused. What does this have to do with the term "Pokemon Master"? :O


I just already explain that in my earlier post. Pokemon Master is just a gimmick to have people sell their merch.  :Confused: 

In other words, Pokemon Master doesn't exist. Just like Yu-Gi-Oh in the heart of the cards lingo.

----------


## TaiLiu

> I just already explain that in my earlier post. Pokemon Master is just a gimmick to have people sell their merch. 
> 
> In other words, Pokemon Master doesn't exist. Just like Yu-Gi-Oh in the heart of the cards lingo.


Right. But then I made an argument saying that I disagreed with that. They don't need a "Pokemon Master" gimmick to sell their merchandise. They can just keep on doing what they're doing: making new Pokemon and then making merchandise of some of the most popular.

I think you're right in saying that no Pokemon Masters exist. I also think Ash will never reach his vague goal of becoming one. But that's a way to continue the anime, not necessarily to sell merchandise.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Right. But then I made an argument saying that I disagreed with that. They don't need a "Pokemon Master" gimmick to sell their merchandise. They can just keep on doing what they're doing: making new Pokemon and then making merchandise of some of the most popular.
> 
> I think you're right in saying that no Pokemon Masters exist. I also think Ash will never reach his vague goal of becoming one. But that's a way to continue the anime, not necessarily to sell merchandise.


The way you said it, that makes sense. I mean Gamefreak isn't going to end Pokemon anytime soon and I don't believe that 'Pokemon Master' exists in any way. They're going to create new Pokemon and new worlds to expand for so many years.

----------


## Saambell

The big thing though for this context is Ash has ties to the Gamefreak games, while Goh is more based on Pokemon GO. And overall, GO vastly out earns the mainline games, so having a character connected to the better selling games makes more sense. Also how one of the big creators inside of GameFreak has gone on record saying he figures kids don't stick with the games after they beat the league, they go play on their phones. I have no clue how much Masters EX makes compared to the rest, but GO is a silly big earner, making most of the games profits. So it makes sense that they would move away from Ash, and on to Goh, who represents a game that the makers think more people play, and earns more, and has no end state for people to get bored with. Also he more actively catches mons, while Ash get 5 to 7 then stops. Seems like he would make a better lead for a series about catching mons, and disconnecting the story from gyms might make more options for major plot lines. And they would even be able to have a companion who is interested in the gyms, and not be Ash, or the lead. Which opens the role up to someone else, who makes more sense to struggle with gyms, and can have a story line that doesn't need to continue after the region is over. Heck, they could finally even have the girl companion be the battler, who's seeking the badges. It always felt a little strange how they had to shove the girl off to the fashion contests, which is likely why they grabbed Iris for gen 5, rather then bring in Hilda from the games. Having an aspiring gym leader meant they didn't have to have her getting badges, and they didn't have to turn the battle maiden, which is what Hilda as a name means, into a frilly contest/dance girl. Which is one of the flaws of that arc of the Adventures Manga. Given how the games played out the story, I feel Hilda works best as the canon rival of N, though I'm not sure who works best as canon character of the sequel. 

They might just be doing a short run of Goh episodes before we get back to Ash going to Paldea. But I feel it might be cool to move on to Goh and start getting new characters who can do things Ash kept getting shoved into doing when it made little sense. Like new trainer struggling at gyms, in particular.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The big thing though for this context is Ash has ties to the Gamefreak games, while Goh is more based on Pokemon GO. And overall, GO vastly out earns the mainline games, so having a character connected to the better selling games makes more sense. Also how one of the big creators inside of GameFreak has gone on record saying he figures kids don't stick with the games after they beat the league, they go play on their phones. I have no clue how much Masters EX makes compared to the rest, but GO is a silly big earner, making most of the games profits. So it makes sense that they would move away from Ash, and on to Goh, who represents a game that the makers think more people play, and earns more, and has no end state for people to get bored with. Also he more actively catches mons, while Ash get 5 to 7 then stops. Seems like he would make a better lead for a series about catching mons, and disconnecting the story from gyms might make more options for major plot lines. And they would even be able to have a companion who is interested in the gyms, and not be Ash, or the lead. Which opens the role up to someone else, who makes more sense to struggle with gyms, and can have a story line that doesn't need to continue after the region is over. Heck, they could finally even have the girl companion be the battler, who's seeking the badges. It always felt a little strange how they had to shove the girl off to the fashion contests, which is likely why they grabbed Iris for gen 5, rather then bring in Hilda from the games. Having an aspiring gym leader meant they didn't have to have her getting badges, and they didn't have to turn the battle maiden, which is what Hilda as a name means, into a frilly contest/dance girl. Which is one of the flaws of that arc of the Adventures Manga. Given how the games played out the story, I feel Hilda works best as the canon rival of N, though I'm not sure who works best as canon character of the sequel. 
> 
> They might just be doing a short run of Goh episodes before we get back to Ash going to Paldea. But I feel it might be cool to move on to Goh and start getting new characters who can do things Ash kept getting shoved into doing when it made little sense. Like new trainer struggling at gyms, in particular.


That's true as well. I haven't played Pokemon since Generation 1. Pokemon is still a big hit to this day.  :Smile:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Goh is more based on Pokemon GO.


I never actually made that connection.

...Despite their actual name being the most blatant reference ever.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

Eh, I'm siding that Ash will stick around the anime.  He's named after Satoshi- still getting executive director credits- and Pikachu is still available in Paldea.  Maybe they're trying a Pokemon Chronicles 2.0 chunk, but it doesn't feel all too likely to me.  Also, if they're moving the anime away from the main games to focus on Pokemon Go, then I want a personal apology from everyone in the world who claimed the last couple of generations had to be rushed to meet the deadlines and coincide with the anime episodes.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Kantaki

Funny bit from a review of Scarlet/Purple about sandwiches(With a "official answer from Nintendo disclaimer):

The ham is veggie. :Small Amused: 

So no worries, you don't eat your new piggy friend.

I mean, I wasn't until they brought it up*, but it is good to know.

*There was a minor  :Small Confused: huh :Small Confused:  moment when I discovered meat is on the table, but (thankfully) I didn't pursue that line of thought.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Funny bit from a review of Scarlet/Purple about sandwiches(With a "official answer from Nintendo disclaimer):
> 
> The ham is veggie.
> 
> So no worries, you don't eat your new piggy friend.
> 
> I mean, I wasn't until they brought it up*, but it is good to know.
> 
> *There was a minor huh moment when I discovered meat is on the table, but (thankfully) I didn't pursue that line of thought.


 you know, it could have been interesting if in the Pokémon Arceus game, they did hunt Pokémon for their meat and we, the hero, makes them realize how wrong it is. From what I heard from online reviews (if I remember correctly), we are the one who made the human start bonding with Pokémon for that region when we travelled back in time. That could have been interesting to explore at least, even if its pushing the vegan style of life hard lol

Edit: I know, never going to happen since its aimed to a general audience. Just saying it would have been interesting.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Spoiler: Five Gyms In*
Show


After second gym, went and beat fire star leader with my charcadet, by being immune to the last pokemons fire moves. 

picked up finizen, how has it taken THIS long to finally get a dolphin pokemon? 

Okay there was some confusion about where to go next after the third gym of Iono, but I soon figured Water Gym, then Normal gym after that, beating both but the way I did caused the game to do something weird with Nemona's event where I think because I started both Gym challenges before between the gyms, both the 4th and 5th events in the gym story I think overlapped for a moment? I think?

had been running into high level areas way beyond my level 30's pokemon more often after that, not sure where to go. Went to snow place, got to Ice gym but didn't challenge it.

then I just went to Dark type star team leader and beat him, turns out he is weaker than fire star leader. whoops. guess they really expected you to do this game clockwise, didn't they?

beat another titan to get gliding, then just kind of......went around searching for sinistea chips to get to evolve my charcadet. this took me on a journey across the region where I caught various pokemon: toxel, riolu, hattena, goomy, eevee, classics like that.

until I finally got to psychic gym leader town where I figured out that THIS is where the Sinistea chips are, knowing I'd have to beat sinistea to get them and finally I did so and got my ceruledge. 

notable pokemon:
Maushold: 
aaaaah! so cute! the adorableness has doubled! just a little mouse family living in oddly synchronous harmony. thank you for telling me to evolve them MCerberus

tinkatink line: 
awesome, the mawile of the gen 9, fairy/steel, is just good and looks adorable yet badass with that big hammer.

scovillain:
is this the first fire/grass pokemon? I think it might be. has this asymmetrical design of one head red and the other green

meowscarada:
a grass/dark cat jester. alright. I like it. also beat my rivals third form starter with a second form starter.

Cyclizar:
is the dragon type pokemon of this region, but has yet to evolve for me. its probably a druddigeon situation isn't it, I've seen dratini, goomy, bagon and the axew lines around, so this region probably has enough pseudo-legendary dragons without concerning itself with a new one.

----------


## tonberrian

> *Spoiler: Five Gyms In*
> Show
> 
> 
> After second gym, went and beat fire star leader with my charcadet, by being immune to the last pokemons fire moves. 
> 
> picked up finizen, how has it taken THIS long to finally get a dolphin pokemon? 
> 
> Okay there was some confusion about where to go next after the third gym of Iono, but I soon figured Water Gym, then Normal gym after that, beating both but the way I did caused the game to do something weird with Nemona's event where I think because I started both Gym challenges before between the gyms, both the 4th and 5th events in the gym story I think overlapped for a moment? I think?
> ...


*Spoiler*
Show

There is a pseudo-legendary dragon, Cyclizar isn't it.

----------


## Taevyr

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> There is a pseudo-legendary dragon, Cyclizar isn't it.


*Spoiler*
Show

If I'm not mistaken, there's an Ice/Dragon pseudo-legendary added in gen 9

----------


## MCerberus

> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, there's an Ice/Dragon pseudo-legendary added in gen 9


*Spoiler: A song of ice and dragons*
Show

Rare spawn up by the snow line of the region's main mountain and the caves around it. Probably the least common dragon I've seen. Oh but they will give you PLENTY of time on that mountain to look. Had really low expectations for it seeing its base evolution


Also Maushold is competitively viable. There are people getting wrecked by wholesome mouse families.

----------


## Saambell

> Also Maushold is competitively viable. There are people getting wrecked by wholesome mouse families.


Maushold is Cinccino but overpowered. Kings Rock Cinccino had like a 40% chance to flinch with its 5 hit moves. Maushold has a 10 hit move. That's just funny. Just watch out for Rocky Helmet, that's the biggest scare for the cute mouse family.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I check out Maushold and it's a very powerful Pokemon.  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

> The way you said it, that makes sense. I mean Gamefreak isn't going to end Pokemon anytime soon and I don't believe that 'Pokemon Master' exists in any way. They're going to create new Pokemon and new worlds to expand for so many years.


Right.




> And overall, GO vastly out earns the mainline games, so having a character connected to the better selling games makes more sense.


Do you know what the numbers are or where I could find them? I believe you but I'm curious about the specifics.




> ...Despite their actual name being the most blatant reference ever.


The theme song uses, and the characters constantly say, the words "Let's go!" (or even just "go") pretty frequently. It's easy to lose track of Goh being a reference when there's all these other references surrounding him.




> Eh, I'm siding that Ash will stick around the anime.  He's named after Satoshi- still getting executive director credits- and Pikachu is still available in Paldea.  Maybe they're trying a Pokemon Chronicles 2.0 chunk, but it doesn't feel all too likely to me.  Also, if they're moving the anime away from the main games to focus on Pokemon Go, then I want a personal apology from everyone in the world who claimed the last couple of generations had to be rushed to meet the deadlines and coincide with the anime episodes.


Right. Something drastic would have to happen before they abandon Ash. They've practically designed him to be a perpetual protagonist.

----------


## Saambell

> Do you know what the numbers are or where I could find them? I believe you but I'm curious about the specifics.


A quick google around finds me GO reporting 887 Million dollars in earnings in 2021. And meanwhile the numbers of copies sold:

    New Pokémon Snap - 2.4 million
    Pokémon Legends: Arceus - 12.64 million
    Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - 14.65 million
    Pokémon Sword and Shield - 25.37 million

A note is stores take 30% of the price of games sold, so they are only earning maybe 43$ USD per copy. 

Math, now that I do it, really makes me eat my words, and prove me wrong. BDSP earned them about 630 Million Dollars alone. So while GO earns more then a lot of the games, its not as over the others as I had thought. Sword and Shield alone earned them about 1/5th of GO's lifetime earnings. So while GO out earns the side games by a good amount, a mainline game still blows GO out of the water. 

Sounds like my reason for them switching to Goh is quite wrong. I still stand by it being nice to finally after 25 years of following Ash, give him a happy ending and move to a new cast. Maybe keep Ash around for at least one more season maybe as a more mentor role.

----------


## NeoVid

> you know, it could have been interesting if in the Pokémon Arceus game, they did hunt Pokémon for their meat and we, the hero, makes them realize how wrong it is.


Since we know Farfetch'd were rare at the time of Gen 1 because of the demand for their meat, changing people's minds about that in the distant past would create another time paradox.

----------


## Taevyr

> Maushold is Cinccino but overpowered. Kings Rock Cinccino had like a 40% chance to flinch with its 5 hit moves. Maushold has a 10 hit move. That's just funny. Just watch out for Rocky Helmet, that's the biggest scare for the cute mouse family.


I've had fun with a Skill Link Cloyster on my monoice run of a fangame: chance for the opponent to not flinch w/ king's rock is .9^5, which comes down to ~.59. So a bit over 40% even.

For a 10 hit move, the chance to not flinch would be ~.59 squared, or .9^10. This comes down to ~.35, so a whopping _65% chance_ to flinch. So yeah, that's a very powerful (and annoying) playstyle.

I imagine Rocky Helmet and such'll be popular in the competitive scene. That, and weather effects/status effects to deal with Tera Shedinjas.

----------


## LaZodiac

> I've had fun with a Skill Link Cloyster on my monoice run of a fangame: chance for the opponent to not flinch w/ king's rock is .9^5, which comes down to ~.59. So a bit over 40% even.
> 
> For a 10 hit move, the chance to not flinch would be ~.59 squared, or .9^10. This comes down to ~.35, so a whopping _65% chance_ to flinch. So yeah, that's a very powerful (and annoying) playstyle.
> 
> I imagine Rocky Helmet and such'll be popular in the competitive scene. That, and weather effects/status effects to deal with Tera Shedinjas.


Shedinja isn't in this gen, and I'm not sure there are any routes out there to get it into Scarvi.

----------


## tonberrian

Remember that Population bomb has a 90% chance of each hit firing, and a miss cancels out any further hits. So your average number of hits is around 5.86, hitting 10 times roughly 34.9% of the time, with a 10% chance of missing outright and a total flinch chance of around 46.1%, if I've done my math properly.

----------


## Qwertystop

> Remember that Population bomb has a 90% chance of each hit firing, and a miss cancels out any further hits. So your average number of hits is around 5.86, hitting 10 times roughly 34.9% of the time, with a 10% chance of missing outright and a total flinch chance of around 46.1%, if I've done my math properly.


Is that how it works? I thought I remembered that for most multi-hit moves, it doesn't actually do the usual hit/miss check for each hit, it does the check once and then picks how many hits according to a simpler (move-dependent) random process that doesn't care about things like accuracy or evasion.

Checking it on Bulbapedia... Huh. Okay, I was right about the usual rule (for all 2-5 hit moves), but also Population Bomb is one of the three moves that just rolls accuracy/evasion normally.

----------


## Taevyr

> Shedinja isn't in this gen, and I'm not sure there are any routes out there to get it into Scarvi.


That's why I specified *Competitive scene* in my comment.

----------


## LaZodiac

> That's why I specified *Competitive scene* in my comment.


Admittedly I don't know a lot about competitive Pokemon, so I just sort of presumed you meant the scene for Scarlet and Violet.

----------


## tonberrian

Honestly the competitive scene can mean different things. One part of it is certainly where only mons and items and moves in SV can happen, and there's also a bit where you mix all the mechanics of every generation together. Lots of different metagames for different people.

----------


## TaiLiu

> A quick google around finds me GO reporting 887 Million dollars in earnings in 2021. And meanwhile the numbers of copies sold:
> 
>     New Pokémon Snap - 2.4 million
>     Pokémon Legends: Arceus - 12.64 million
>     Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - 14.65 million
>     Pokémon Sword and Shield - 25.37 million
> 
> A note is stores take 30% of the price of games sold, so they are only earning maybe 43$ USD per copy. 
> 
> ...


Huh. Maybe Goh's also meant to represent some of the _Let's Go Pikachu_ or _Eevee_ players, then? Those are mostly younger kids, I think. And _Pokemon Go_ targets an older audience, since you need a smartphone to play and your character's a grown-up.

I also have some Ash fatigue, but I very much doubt he'd get replaced. Like, aren't all the new alt universe movies just him, no travel companions?

----------


## Spore

At this point Ash is synonymous to Pokemon as Mario is to the Mario series, Bugs Bunny is to Looney Tunes or Arthas is to the Warcraft universe. They are not getting replaced, for better or worse. But creativity will stagnate as a result.

The best I could think of is Ash doing something ELSE than a "Gym journey" this time. I did immensely enjoy the Orange Isles arc, where sure there were gyms, but for one they did hold challenges, not fights and for another the thing was a holiday trip crossed with exploration as a focus. Not "tramp to the next high tech city" to fight a hilariously overpowered gym leader.

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Spoiler: Pokemon Violet, 8 Gyms, 5 Titans, 4 Team Star Bosses in*
Show


since three gyms in, to get past my own procrastinating-indecisive nature, I started playing it while putting on streams of people playing Scarlet/Violet to motivate me to keep ahead of them while I listened, and it has been working. 

with the full range of Miraidon's abilities, and having most if not all the teleport points, I'm traversing the world at a fast pace. I practically never get off Miraidon, because its just easier to ride around everywhere on them and there is practically no indoor places in this game- the only time I've seen anything indoor places is the gym and even the battles take place is the arena outside. while all the shops are just a menu screen. 

Trying to build my team specifically for each gym to have a bunch of pokemon with strong types against it, didn't work well for the psychic and ice gyms as they just resulted most of the team dying and my strong main pokemon getting the win anyways so I instead just started to sticking to a strong consistent yet varied team anyways and did better on the ghost gym- though, being level 50+ when ghost gym is in the 40's might something more to do with that.

I've been taking a break from progression since I'm so far in, to level up all the dragons and other previous gen mons I have that I particularly like- there is a LOT of pseudolegendary lines in this region: dratini, bagon, axew, goomy, gibble, as well as the new one, they really put a lot of dragons into this game. 

also I caught a shiny snover recently! not a pokemon I have any particularly strong feelings about, but a shiny is a shiny. 

the garchomp I caught is level 65 and has water for its tera-type, which makes sense for what it is. I think the Tera-types are just ways to give pokemon typings you could argue they should have without giving them a new form. 

first time I'm using a Toxtricity, got the low-key form from evolution and it seems pretty cool.

I'm figuring out that the various black stakes I'm seeing are for at least two weird gates I've found by exploring. if I recall correctly, I think I've seen more than purple and yellow colors for the stakes however, so I think there is a third orange gate at the least. 

notable pokemon:
Tatsugiri and the big fish that it has is an interesting dynamic, Tatsugiri somehow being the boss gives me the impression that Tatsugiri is some small mafia boss and the big fish pokemon is some powerful thus he has.

Toedscool line is a variation in the same vein as Wigglet/Wugtrio being a land-lookalike of a sea pokemon to contrast Wigglet being a sea lookalike of a land pokemon, and I like these are two pokemon lines are completely different species and not just Paldean forms of those species.

----------


## LaZodiac

With regards to some of the stuff you're saying...
*Spoiler*
Show


Toedscool is the first time I've ever seen a pokemon design and said, out-loud, incredulous, "EXCUSE ME???"

I do love him, I love Toedscool with a thousand million suns. But the initial encounter was incredible.

----------


## Rater202

They'll retire Ash when Pikachu gets an alternate evolution. Something based on level or happiness or something else tied directly to the skill or bond with a trainer rather than random outside factors like a radioactive rock.

Ash's Pikachu evolving into some super rare variant solely because of his bond with it and the care he's shown for it would be the perfect capper to his career.

And it would have to be, because Pikachu is the mascot for the franchise. So they'd need to replace Ash with someone else who also happened to have a Pikachu.

----------


## Spore

> With regards to some of the stuff you're saying...
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> Toedscool is the first time I've ever seen a pokemon design and said, out-loud, incredulous, "EXCUSE ME???"
> 
> I do love him, I love Toedscool with a thousand million suns. But the initial encounter was incredible.


*Spoiler*
Show

Didn't buy the games but Toedscool is the point where I decided some of the evolutions are the devs just going: "**** it, there are thousand of these ****ers now. We might as well meme the heck out of the franchise." and then proceeded to go Grass/Ground Tentacruel, give Dunsparce an evolution which is hilarious when you see it. And I am still shook of what the version exclusive pokemon are. People clamored for themed evolutions, and they got them. Partially.





> They'll retire Ash when Pikachu gets an alternate evolution. Something based on level or happiness or something else tied directly to the skill or bond with a trainer rather than random outside factors like a radioactive rock.


[Half Sarcasm, half serious] Ash's Pikachu already got that. It is called cosplay Pikachu and "Ash Hat" Pikachu. But even giving Pikachu a Gigantamax form (Peeeeeeeee!) was not enough to end Ash's reign of determined idiocy (Pikachu, use Thunderbolt on this ground type! I know it is immune but just Thunderbolt harder!)

----------


## oxybe

So my workplace has a rewards program: every so often a team lead will decide that one of us peons is deserving of a "you did an adequate" and award us some points to spend in a store for real-world goods, like gift cards, or in my case: Pokemon Scarlet. The game came in the mail yesterday, and after futzing about for updates I got it running this morning. 
*Spoiler: my experience with Scarlet so far*
Show


I also decided to stream my experience online with this and while i'm only 3:30 hours in my faffing about habits hit SUPER hard, having finally beaten the first two team star mooks in the first real town and tera'd my first 'mon. Yes i'm slow, but you don't throw a big open world at me and not expect me to want to explore it.

1) I was surprised at the sheer amount of pokemon you can catch in the early game. There are a ton of them all over the place and you can get a really varied team early on. This is my kryptonite because boy howdy do i like exploring and catching. 

1.1) not a big fan of the forced EXP Share affecting the team, but that looks to be a staple going forward. 

1.2) also, there are a TON of items just lying on the ground. potions are everywhere. I entered the first real town with 20+ of the thang dings. 

2) I nearly accidentally sequence broke the game if not for that one guy who stuck around on my stream warning me I nearly did a stupid. Thank you, oh patient one, for sticking around at my exploration. As i was exploring, i saw a small gap to a cliff and pokemon I didn't have. I tried to yeet my poor Fuecoco on the other side to initiate combat, only to be told that doing so would be the equivalent of crossing a bridge in Dragon Quest: you'll be in for a world of hurt, and in my case, stuck without a bridge back had I pokedoll'd out of the theoretical fight

3) I've kept myself spoiler-free for a lot of stuff like evolutions and most of the new mon's I've bumped into, i've liked their design so far. The starters all look cute, but Fuecoco got my love: 2 barely functional braincells + fire type + looks like a Bubble Bobble dragon = top tier. I just fear that my little man becomes another "buff man with animal head". Also, got my first shiny, a Lechonk, like 2 hours in. Humblebrag. I also like my pokemon to be "regular animals but kinda fun" rather then over-designed like an Ultimate form Digimon with more belts and guns then a Tetsuya Nomura protagonist. So "Dog made of bread" and "that's a flamingo" or "pig" is top tier design. Flying Harley Davidson lizard that walks bow-legged and roars like a big cat... uh... alright man, you do you. I'mma play with the pure_bread_ dog. Ha Ha! I am a comedian of observational humour!

4) I've seen minor bugs/glitches pretty frequently. nothing that screams "this game is unplayable" but a lot of little things that make the game feel like a rushed product: 
-some objects popping in and out of existence due to relatively short draw distance. I've had in-game "cut scenes" where 2 characters talk and the camera pans, only to have objects suddenly appear in the background because of that panning
-background characters with stilted or janky animations (i've noticed some of these same characters will perk up and their animations become more natural as i get close, so it's likely working as intended, done likely for memory saving issues, similar to how the game will render a low-res texture model from afar and give you the higher res version when you approach... gamefreak was just bad at implementing this in a non-obvious way). 
-glitched through a couple of doors (some you could enter and just kinda... entered twice, others that I couldn't had my model half-clip through the building, greeting me with an empty void. 
-speaking of the void, i've had my camera clip through the floor on multiple occasions in a pokemon battle to show me the nothingness below
-i've had pokemon appear outside of the pokeball and the pokeball just... float in midair.
-tossed pokeball to capture a mon creating both a static ball on the ground and a shaking one, with a weird duplicate ball just sitting there after it was captured.
-pokeball animations as a whole seem to be prone to wonkyness
-N64 trees. saw a few. 
-I've yet to see a human or pokemon model really go bonkers just yet, so... kudos?

all in all it's an ok game so far. a 6-7 out of 10 initial experience. nothing groundbreaking but nothing particularly offensive, but my expectations for the series since Sword/Shield are low-adequate at the best of times.

----------


## tonberrian

I think S/V are really good games aside from all the things that are bad. Which are the stuff you've noted. Other than that and occasionally clipping through the environment it's really fun. My favorite pokemon generation now, dethroning 3. (I like trumpets and water routes i'm sorry).

----------


## Lord Raziere

*Spoiler: Violet: All Storylines Done*
Show


I did all three storylines, then did the Area Zero event at the end.

What are my thoughts? The game is definitely fun. they've nailed all the good points of open world exploration, and pokemon battling is fun all throughout even though I got what I think is the strongest Dragonite in the game which wasn't as much an I win button as I thought it was (I have three Dragonites that all do different things, what is wrong with me) stories are....okay. bit softer than I prefer my stories to be, but its pokemon I have no expectations of them realistically going as dark I would or be all that good but surprisingly there is at least one instance of death being mentioned! Poor Arven. Nemona and Penny are the characters I like, they're like two sides of my own coin. 

there is definitely a few performance issues, mostly in the big lake area. also apparently there is a memory leak? so playing for too long causes that too. it seems overblown as the internet often makes things. BUT it still could use polish. Its a fun game and shows a good direction for pokemon going forward, they just need to let the game designers actually make it polished and smooth for it to really be something great. its decent to good, I'll say that. Like its good enough, but I'm not going make the "I don't play pokemon for the graphics" excuse nor am I going to be obsessed with graphics. The game has a lot of good points and some points where they could use some touch up, a little more time to really smooth out the edges, and I'd say the good outweighs the bad in this case. 

overall, I had fun, there is still post game, any new pokemon I haven't caught and those weird black stakes I want to find (*don't tell me what they do, I want to find out myself*) that I'll get around to, but thats pretty much Pokemon Violet for me. its fun, its good, its not the best game there is, has some hiccups here and there that could've been ironed out, but the overall experience is good even through my joycon drift which I had throughout the entire playthrough. 

Notable Pokemon:
Kingambit: 
I like it, real samurai inspired and I like how its signature move is accurate to how the sengoku jidai worked. I wish it stood up rather than sat down, but thats a minor quibble. method to evolve it is a bit arcane though

Baxcalibur: 
its fine, its finally make ice/dragon something thats not kyurem, I just wish it was a little cooler looking, but again minor quibble.

future pokemon:
the concept interests me more than the individual designs, because it implies as time goes by that pokemon will adapt and change into more mechanical and cybernetic forms as tech advances, with this kind of already occurring with voltorb going from a wooden ball to a metal one as Legends Arceus has shown us.  that to some extent, pokemon change themselves to be more like the environment that surrounds them. the pokemon forms we see today won't be the pokemon forms we might see tomorrow, nor the ones we saw yesterday. 

Glimmora:
this pokemon's the weirdest and most confusing. it looks alien, almost like an Ultra Beast but isn't one. I'm not sure how to feel about it, because its just kind of there? it clearly has something to do with Tera crystals given people comment on it being from Area Zero and the champion having one, but it doesn't really participate in the story beyond that and its presence isn't really explained. its kinda weird.

----------


## Celestia

> 2) I nearly accidentally sequence broke the game if not for that one guy who stuck around on my stream warning me I nearly did a stupid. Thank you, oh patient one, for sticking around at my exploration. As i was exploring, i saw a small gap to a cliff and pokemon I didn't have. I tried to yeet my poor Fuecoco on the other side to initiate combat, only to be told that doing so would be the equivalent of crossing a bridge in Dragon Quest: you'll be in for a world of hurt, and in my case, stuck without a bridge back had I pokedoll'd out of the theoretical fight


Yeah, that is a *huge* sequence break because it gives you immediate full access to the entire rest of the map. There'd be nothing stopping you from wandering all the way to the late game areas and encountering level 50+ Pokémon.

----------


## Spore

> I think S/V are really good games aside from all the things that are bad.


This is the best video game critique of all times. I am sorry, may I quote that?

----------


## tonberrian

> This is the best video game critique of all times. I am sorry, may I quote that?


Go for it.

----------


## Spore

> Yeah, that is a *huge* sequence break because it gives you immediate full access to the entire rest of the map. There'd be nothing stopping you from wandering all the way to the late game areas and encountering level 50+ Pokémon.


Backwards jumping up cliffs on the ride pokemon does allow you to catch a high level pokemon with a bit of luck. Pointcrow started his game with a Garchomp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuLP8zSq4HY

----------


## Celestia

> Backwards jumping up cliffs on the ride pokemon does allow you to catch a high level pokemon with a bit of luck. Pointcrow started his game with a Garchomp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuLP8zSq4HY


Do not site the deep magic to me, Witch! I was there when it was written.

----------


## Spore

> Do not site the deep magic to me, Witch! I was there when it was written.


Then you remember well, every glitch belong to us all. His blood is our property.

----------


## PhantomFox

*Speedrunner Mario BLJ's into the chat*

----------


## MCerberus

Wait are we all just going to ignore that Lord Raziere has turned into Lance?

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Wait are we all just going to ignore that Lord Raziere has turned into Lance?


To explain:
*Spoiler: My Three Dragonites*
Show

I have one Dragonite that I caught and leveled up from a dratini in Violet. named Masamune because my normal nicknaming method for dragon types is to name them after legendary weapons like the Masamune Frog uses from Chrono Trigger. first one was like, dratini is cute and Dragonite is a great pokemon so why not catch it? classic pokemon

The second Dragonite, was this Dragonair with an electric tera-type so I though why not catch that, it has this moveset of thunder, rain dance, surf and something else which is a different and can probably do a lot of damage if I rain dance into tera-typed Thunder. this I named Raikiri after Kakashi's lightning attack in Naruto because I couldn't think of any weapons with lightning.

the third Dragonite was the one I caught as a dragonite last, at level 75 when the other two were like 40 or 50, in a specific area and it was steel tera type, has iron head, outrage, earthquake, aerial ace, so I named it Adamantia and this is the one I used to beat like, most of the endgame stuff with. I outraged half of the dragon elite four's team with it, it just dominated and helped in every fight, it was the front of my team, my strong opener that was like a titan compared to everything else.

like I didn't intend to end up with three dragonites, its just each one does different things and the last one is so powerful that its literally ten levels higher than the final bosses when I caught it. I'm not sure if anyone else has discovered the area that I did catch Adamantia in, its pretty small and out of the way, and upon further investigation dragonites spawning up in the area at all isn't a sure thing. 

so like this just showcases what you can do with teratyping, it makes things possible that you normally can't, because I have two Dragonites with two different movesets based on taking advantage of their tera type. Like, I didn't think I'd encounter two more dratini line pokemon with different tera types, I thought I'd just catch a dragon to round this games Dragon collection because there is a lot of dragons in this game, lot of good ones to use, but then I kept encountering tera-typed ones in the overworld and somehow I ended up finding the most powerful pokemon in this game.

----------


## oxybe

Are wild Shinies much more common in this gen?

I've already found 2 shinies, a Lechonk and Rookidee, not even 6 hours in.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> Are wild Shinies much more common in this gen?
> 
> I've already found 2 shinies, a Lechonk and Rookidee, not even 6 hours in.


I've found a shiny Snover on my playthrough so maybe?

----------


## MCerberus

I found a shiny flaafy pretty early on so I got to use it. Named him Bubblegum. I think it's a side-effect of how many mons gets spawned and shown since you don't see them 1 at a time in random encounters.

----------


## Celestia

I've currently got five, and that's just the ones with noticeable, drastic color changes, like a banana Nymble and a pepto bismol Heracross. I have no idea how many shinies I may have missed.

----------


## tonberrian

I caught two and i think i saw a shiny flabebe, but it was in a swarm and i couldn't catch it to be sure.

----------


## TaiLiu

The Pokemon Database has the National Dex numbers up, confirming Bartmanhomer's claim that there are now 1000+ Pokemon. 1008 Pokemon, to be exact.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> The Pokemon Database has the National Dex numbers up, confirming Bartmanhomer's claim that there are now 1000+ Pokemon. 1008 Pokemon, to be exact.


I was right.  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

> I was right.


Yes, you were. I was thinking that the dex would stop at 999 or 1000 or something, but there's even more than that.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yes, you were. I was thinking that the dex would stop at 999 or 1000 or something, but there's even more than that.


Well, they're still making more Pokemon to this day.

Also, another question that's come to mind: What's Lance's personality? Is he a nice trainer or a bit of a jerk? The reason why I'm asking this question is that I'm thinking of writing a Pokemon story inspired by Lance.  :Smile:

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> Well, they're still making more Pokemon to this day.
> 
> Also, another question that's come to mind: What's Lance's personality? Is he a nice trainer or a bit of a jerk? The reason why I'm asking this question is that I'm thinking of writing a Pokemon story inspired by Lance.


He showed up in one of the Johto anime episodes (maybe more than one, its been a while). Also in Gold and Silver.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> He showed up in one of the Johto anime episodes (maybe more than one, its been a while). Also in Gold and Silver.


Ok but that's not the answer I was looking for. My question is what's Lance's personality? Is he a nice trainer like Ash/Red or is he a jerk like Gary/Blue?

----------


## tonberrian

> Ok but that's not the answer I was looking for. My question is what's Lance's personality? Is he a nice trainer like Ash/Red or is he a jerk like Gary/Blue?


As much as he has characterization, he's a nice guy who fights Team Rocket.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> As much as he has characterization, he's a nice guy who fights Team Rocket.


Oh ok. Thank you.  :Smile:

----------


## Saambell

> Ok but that's not the answer I was looking for. My question is what's Lance's personality? Is he a nice trainer like Ash/Red or is he a jerk like Gary/Blue?


In Gold and Silver hes a calm serious sort, who joins you in fighting Team Rocket's secret base. Friendly, respects strength, and will not stand for Team Rockets evil acts. He also talks down at your Rival in that game, who only seeks power at the expense of his Pokemon, telling him a kind soul will achieve far more from his Pokemon than any harsh hand. This is one of the biggest steps for the Rival to realize he is in the wrong, when the reigning champion speaks for kindness. 

Meanwhile in the Pokemon Special Manga, he and the Elite Four are the villains of the second arc, attacking and eliminating Red after he became the Pokemon Champion as they saw him as their main threat to attacking a number of cities, supposedly in the name of Protecting Nature and Pokemon from harmful pollution. It may have been Agatha manipulating him, as she had some kind of grudge against Oak, but he was still willing to commit several horrible crimes for the sake of Pokemon. 

So, Honourable, Love of Pokemon, and Friendly as long as you aren't working against him. Speaks of kindness and respecting Pokemon, yet strikes hard at those who would abuse and use Pokemon. If you want him more villainous, play his love of Pokemon and compassionate nature against the cruel face of society. If you want him heroic, play him against people out to harm nature and Pokemon. Heck, you can even meet in the middle and follow him as his kind nature is pushed to harsher acts in protecting Pokemon. 

One of the Pokemon Short Series from a few years ago includes a episode of him and his Dragonite storming the Rocket Base. Extra fun is one of the earlier episodes is Looker and the Police commencing a SWAT raid on the Viridian City Gym attempting to arrest Giovanni, complete with Machoke Door Breachers and several other fun Pokemon used in Police roles.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> In Gold and Silver hes a calm serious sort, who joins you in fighting Team Rocket's secret base. Friendly, respects strength, and will not stand for Team Rockets evil acts. He also talks down at your Rival in that game, who only seeks power at the expense of his Pokemon, telling him a kind soul will achieve far more from his Pokemon than any harsh hand. This is one of the biggest steps for the Rival to realize he is in the wrong, when the reigning champion speaks for kindness. 
> 
> Meanwhile in the Pokemon Special Manga, he and the Elite Four are the villains of the second arc, attacking and eliminating Red after he became the Pokemon Champion as they saw him as their main threat to attacking a number of cities, supposedly in the name of Protecting Nature and Pokemon from harmful pollution. It may have been Agatha manipulating him, as she had some kind of grudge against Oak, but he was still willing to commit several horrible crimes for the sake of Pokemon. 
> 
> So, Honourable, Love of Pokemon, and Friendly as long as you aren't working against him. Speaks of kindness and respecting Pokemon, yet strikes hard at those who would abuse and use Pokemon. If you want him more villainous, play his love of Pokemon and compassionate nature against the cruel face of society. If you want him heroic, play him against people out to harm nature and Pokemon. Heck, you can even meet in the middle and follow him as his kind nature is pushed to harsher acts in protecting Pokemon. 
> 
> One of the Pokemon Short Series from a few years ago includes a episode of him and his Dragonite storming the Rocket Base. Extra fun is one of the earlier episodes is Looker and the Police commencing a SWAT raid on the Viridian City Gym attempting to arrest Giovanni, complete with Machoke Door Breachers and several other fun Pokemon used in Police roles.


Wow. I love Lance.  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

> Well, they're still making more Pokemon to this day.


Yes, of course. I was unclear: I just meant that I thought they'd stop the Paldea Pokedex on 999 or 1000.




> One of the Pokemon Short Series from a few years ago includes a episode of him and his Dragonite storming the Rocket Base.


I think that's still available to watch on Pokemon TV. _Pokemon Generations_, episode 4.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yes, of course. I was unclear: I just meant that I thought they'd stop the Paldea Pokedex on 999 or 1000.


I understand what you meant, so no worries.  :Wink:

----------


## TaiLiu

> I understand what you meant, so no worries.


 :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I always thought Lance was known as the Seto Kaiba of Dragon Pokemon Trainer but now that everyone tells me that Lance is a great guy. He inspires me to write a Pokemon story once again.

----------


## Spore

> I always thought Lance was known as the Seto Kaiba of Dragon Pokemon Trainer but now that everyone tells me that Lance is a great guy. He inspires me to write a Pokemon story once again.


More or less what Lance is: Standard hero knightly type.

----------


## mjp1050

Y'know, I have 16 tabs open right now, and 12 of them are wiki pages for Pokemon Crystal. Most of which are open to try and find why my Flareon somehow doesn't have any fire-type moves.

This is not an easy game to get through.

----------


## Alanzeign

I recently got the latest gen while I was house sitting for family. I usually like to nuzlocke so since Sword & Shield the game has been moving away from what I enjoy. I recognize that's not how most people play so I don't expect to be catered to but there were a few things I thought were weird.

The game really tries to sell itself as open world and how you can approach things in whatever order but individual areas have set levels of pokemon, trainers, and gyms, etc. I'd step into a new area and be like "Yes, I can catch a pokemon!" only for it to be 10 levels above me and sweep my whole team. There was one area where I fought a trainer that was level 25ish and I crossed a bridge to fight a trainer with a level 50ish pokemon (near a named lake and the water gym excursion, I don't remember the names and don't want to spoil). Just seemed strange that they tried to sell the whole open world thing so hard when you are literally gated by HM like moves that require defeating certain level poke bosses to use, not to mention the levels of the mons both wild and trainer.

I had fun with it for a day or two but I ended up digging out my 3DS and just playing Ultra Moon again. It also felt super weird playing as an 8-10 year old in the new game when my rival looked like she was at least twice my age. I care much less about that than gameplay but it was super off putting in this game versus the rest of the series.

I would say I'm getting too old for pokemon but rather I think I just don't like the direction they are taking unfortunately. It is what it is.

----------


## Celestia

> ... you are literally gated by HM like moves ...


You are not. The only areas in the game that require upgraded movement to reach are Alfornada and the lake islands, and I might be wrong about Alfornada. Everything else can be reached with basic movement.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Okay, I was a bit off on the Ash front. He is going to be retired, but he's first getting a special 11 episode goodbye season in which we'll probably finally learn that Butterfree died happily of old age on some tropical island and that that Primape Ash had for one or two episodes won the P1 tournament 5 times but afterwards found his real calling in presenting a cooking show*. Ash is also not getting replaced by Goh (and an ensemble cast of old characters), rather they're aiming for a harder reboot featuring a girl and a boy character, Liko and Roy (Japanese names).

*Also: Pidgeot joined Team Rocket, Charizard is getting bullied by all the other Charizards, Goodra has a family and a shoe store specialized in rare sizes, Greninja saved the world and became an astronaut, and everybody is really happy Ash slowed down with the whole leaving Pokémon behind thing after the first season, or we'd be here for three more goodbye seasons**.

**I'm kind of joking, but all the mons I named are on the promotional image in that article I linked. Presumably every one of his Pokémon is.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> Y'know, I have 16 tabs open right now, and 12 of them are wiki pages for Pokemon Crystal. Most of which are open to try and find why my Flareon somehow doesn't have any fire-type moves.
> 
> This is not an easy game to get through.


The move distrubutions in those early games are weird. Ekans and Mankey get the Rock Slide TM in gen 1. None of the fossils get it or any other rock type moves. Because STAB is for Meowths, presumably.

Although to be fair, it does generally feel like gen 2 was better at this than gen 1.

----------


## Alanzeign

> You are not. The only areas in the game that require upgraded movement to reach are Alfornada and the lake islands, and I might be wrong about Alfornada. Everything else can be reached with basic movement.


That's good then, at least. It certainly felt like it but that's probably more on me than the game.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Okay, I was a bit off on the Ash front. He is going to be retired, but he's first getting a special 11 episode goodbye season in which we'll probably finally learn that Butterfree died happily of old age on some tropical island and that that Primape Ash had for one or two episodes won the P1 tournament 5 times but afterwards found his real calling in presenting a cooking show*. Ash is also not getting replaced by Goh (and an ensemble cast of old characters), rather they're aiming for a harder reboot featuring a girl and a boy character, Liko and Roy (Japanese names).
> 
> *Also: Pidgeot joined Team Rocket, Charizard is getting bullied by all the other Charizards, Goodra has a family and a shoe store specialized in rare sizes, Greninja saved the world and became an astronaut, and everybody is really happy Ash slowed down with the whole leaving Pokémon behind thing after the first season, or we'd be here for three more goodbye seasons**.
> 
> **I'm kind of joking, but all the mons I named are on the promotional image in that article I linked. Presumably every one of his Pokémon is.


Here's the official announcement. And wow was I wrong about Ash. That's too bad. Here I thought I had solid evidence of Ash forever. I'll miss Goh the most. But Ash, too, despite my distaste for his battling style. The anime has this calming constant repetition that I'm guessing is no more.

I think the female character's gonna be good at battling, right? That's a nice change from the constant contest-interested girls that the anime usually puts out.




> Y'know, I have 16 tabs open right now, and 12 of them are wiki pages for Pokemon Crystal. Most of which are open to try and find why my Flareon somehow doesn't have any fire-type moves.
> 
> This is not an easy game to get through.





> The move distrubutions in those early games are weird. Ekans and Mankey get the Rock Slide TM in gen 1. None of the fossils get it or any other rock type moves. Because STAB is for Meowths, presumably.
> 
> Although to be fair, it does generally feel like gen 2 was better at this than gen 1.


Huh. I thought Crystal Flareons had access to four fire-type moves: Ember, Fire Spin, Flamethrower, and Fire Blast. Maybe not.

Mawile didn't have access to any offensive steel-type moves in gen 3. I think they finally started fixing that general problem (lack of STAB moves) in gen 4.

----------


## tyckspoon

> Y'know, I have 16 tabs open right now, and 12 of them are wiki pages for Pokemon Crystal. Most of which are open to try and find why my Flareon somehow doesn't have any fire-type moves.
> 
> This is not an easy game to get through.


All of the stone-evolved pokemon had pretty much the same issue back then, IIRC, where after you evolved them they basically did not have a levelup moveset and you had to either hope they could use appropriate TMs, that there was a move tutor who could teach something useful, or have raised the pre-evolved version until it knew what you needed it to. Arcanine had it even worse if you evolved a Growlithe before letting the pup level all the way up to getting Flame Wheel or Flamethrower.

(and you can tutor Flamethrower onto Flareon or teach it Fire Blast via TM, so there's reasonably ok access to a solid Fire move there. Then you're just left with that being before the physical/special split, so all Fire moves operate off Special Attack. Flareon wouldn't get to enjoy same-type bonus with its better attacking stat for another couple generations.)

----------


## tonberrian

And even then, Flareon doesn't get Flare Blitz until generation 6. It's stuck with Fire Fang as its only physical fire move in Gen 4 and Gen 5 only marginally improves with Flame Charge.

----------


## mjp1050

> Huh. I thought Crystal Flareons had access to four fire-type moves: Ember, Fire Spin, Flamethrower, and Fire Blast. Maybe not.
> 
> Mawile didn't have access to any offensive steel-type moves in gen 3. I think they finally started fixing that general problem (lack of STAB moves) in gen 4.





> All of the stone-evolved pokemon had pretty much the same issue back then, IIRC, where after you evolved them they basically did not have a levelup moveset and you had to either hope they could use appropriate TMs, that there was a move tutor who could teach something useful, or have raised the pre-evolved version until it knew what you needed it to. Arcanine had it even worse if you evolved a Growlithe before letting the pup level all the way up to getting Flame Wheel or Flamethrower.
> 
> (and you can tutor Flamethrower onto Flareon or teach it Fire Blast via TM, so there's reasonably ok access to a solid Fire move there. Then you're just left with that being before the physical/special split, so all Fire moves operate off Special Attack. Flareon wouldn't get to enjoy same-type bonus with its better attacking stat for another couple generations.)


Funny thing about that: my Flareon doesn't know Ember. Somehow. I assume it's because I evolved it after it would've learned it via levelling. And apparently there's no move remember thingy in Gen II, so I'm just out of luck.

The Move Tutor for Flamethrower isn't available until after you beat the game, and Fire Blast is only obtained through the annoying gambling minigames. And my Flareon is level 26 right now, so Fire Spin's still a ways off.

I regret not choosing Cyndaquil as my starter because they did _not_ make it easy to get a decent Fire-type in this game.


On a related subject, it seems like my team might have a new opening soon. My current lineup is a Magneton, Togetic, Haunter, Gyarados, and an Onix. Any recommendations on what the last Pokemon should be? Preferably something that doesn't evolve via trading and that someone who hasn't yet beaten all the gyms can get their hands on.

----------


## Androgeus

> All of the stone-evolved pokemon had pretty much the same issue back then, IIRC, where after you evolved them they basically did not have a levelup moveset and you had to either hope they could use appropriate TMs, that there was a move tutor who could teach something useful, or have raised the pre-evolved version until it knew what you needed it to. Arcanine had it even worse if you evolved a Growlithe before letting the pup level all the way up to getting Flame Wheel or Flamethrower.


The Eeveelutions are the exception to this. They've always had a move list. (Also Arcanine apparently learns ExtremeSpeed at level 50 in genII for some reason)

Flareon should learn Ember at lvl 16, Fire Spin at 36 and Flamethrower at 52.

----------


## Celestia

> On a related subject, it seems like my team might have a new opening soon. My current lineup is a Magneton, Togetic, Haunter, Gyarados, and an Onix. Any recommendations on what the last Pokemon should be? Preferably something that doesn't evolve via trading and that someone who hasn't yet beaten all the gyms can get their hands on.


Is this a nuzlock or challenge run? Because that is a really bad team.  :Small Eek:

----------


## tonberrian

> On a related subject, it seems like my team might have a new opening soon. My current lineup is a Magneton, Togetic, Haunter, Gyarados, and an Onix. Any recommendations on what the last Pokemon should be? Preferably something that doesn't evolve via trading and that someone who hasn't yet beaten all the gyms can get their hands on.


Heracross is always good. Just need to headbutt some trees. Espeon's a nice psychic type, Lapras is available in union cave on Fridays, Tauros is nice enough and available on 38 and 39, Exeggcute is pretty common from headbutting trees, Miltank is just as threatening in your hands, and Starmie can be a decent sweeper if you teach it surf, thunderbolt, and ice beam. Staryu is available if you've got the good rod.

----------


## OracleofWuffing

> Okay, I was a bit off on the Ash front.


Eeyup, I'll admit to being off, too.  Although part of me wants this to be a troll reveal and Ash will show up at the end of the first season of the new series with _Raichu_, so they can walk away saying, "Yes, that was the end of Ash and Pikachu's adventures."   :Small Tongue: 

... I know they're not gonna do it, but another part of me wants this last season to have Kurt open the GS Ball.

----------


## mjp1050

> Is this a nuzlock or challenge run? Because that is a really bad team.


Wait, really?

I'm playing Crystal very casually, so that was _not_ the reaction I was expecting  :Small Tongue: . What's so bad about my team?

I usually pick Pokemon based on whether or not I like their types. I'm fairly new to Pokemon (Shield and Let's Go Pikachu are the only other games I've played), so I have no idea what's considered a good Pokemon or not.

----------


## tonberrian

Togetic is just a bad pokemon because it has sub par special attack, nonexistant attack, and in Crystal both its types are physical only, so its not getting STAB on anything useful. Magneton is fine. Not exceptional, but perfectly reasonable to beat Crystal with. Onix has non-existent attacking stats and is only notable for having a high speed for a rock type and (one of?) the highest defense in little cup. Haunter is just worse than Gengar, though if you can't trade it's i think the best ghost type available at this point, though that's questionable since all ghost moves are physical in gen 2 and haunter has very little attack. Gyarados is... fine in Gen 2, but you're missing a lot of the stuff that makes it great in later gens such as Intimidate, physical water moves, a flying stab period, Dragon Dance... the list goes on. 

BUT. If you're having fun, don't listen to the haters. Crystal is pretty easy unless you go for the Uberboss at the end of Mt. Silver after collecting all the badges.

----------


## Emmerlaus

> Wait, really?
> 
> I'm playing Crystal very casually, so that was _not_ the reaction I was expecting . What's so bad about my team?
> 
> I usually pick Pokemon based on whether or not I like their types. I'm fairly new to Pokemon (Shield and Let's Go Pikachu are the only other games I've played), so I have no idea what's considered a good Pokemon or not.


Please dont listen to him/her/them unless you are planning to play competitively with other players!

I always win the game with my favourite Pokémon, forget about the competitive meta.

Personally, in sun and moon,  I loved my Toucannon with Skill Link and holding a Kings Rock lol! Not very strong competitively but a lot of fun! 

Just try to look up how to evolve your Pokémon though.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> On a related subject, it seems like my team might have a new opening soon. My current lineup is a Magneton, Togetic, Haunter, Gyarados, and an Onix. Any recommendations on what the last Pokemon should be? Preferably something that doesn't evolve via trading and that someone who hasn't yet beaten all the gyms can get their hands on.





> Is this a nuzlock or challenge run? Because that is a really bad team.


For a Johto team at level 26 (that's around 4 badges right?) I don't think it's bad. It's better than what I usually have in game. Onix is one of the best answers to 3rd gym leader Whitney. It's probably not going to hold up extremely well in the late game, so you might consider using one of the many available cheating options to modify your save file as if you traded it back and forth with metal coat. (PKHeX works pretty well.) But so far it probably felt quite good to use. 70 speed is fun. Gyarados is always a good pick, I'm assuming it's the red one? Togetic, Haunter and Magneton are also just pretty decent pokémon. (Well, I've never used Togetic, but gen 2 isn't exactly the big leagues of super powerful pokemon only, so I'm assuming it's fine.) Gengar is great in any generation.

Including Flareon (which I'm assuming is the one you want to replace, from the way you phrased it) your biggest weaknesses seem to be ground and rock at 3 weak mon each, which will stay the same if you evolve Onix. This is pretty good, even if a maximum of 2 the same weaknesses is ideal. (I use an app called PokeType to quickly scan teams for weaknesses like that, it works pretty well.)

Let's see, uhmm, what's good in Johto? I think you can get a Heracross in either the bug catching contest or maybe by headbutting trees. Scyther is also in the contest. Skarmory should be available somewhere, and you're going into the icy path soonish. Piloswine doesn't have the great stat distribution of Mamoswine, but it looks good. (On second thought, I think that's actually where Skarmory lives too, the icy path.)

I do seem to be building quite the fire weakness with all these suggestion. Glygar or Donphan would be decent picks for replacing Onix, if that's a thing you wanted to do, but you're either looking at going back to grab the Crystal exclusive super early game Phanpy or getting either of these two after the 8th gym. (Glygar is weak, way too weak to justify its placement that late in the game, but it has a fun typing to play around with.) A second water type might also work, maybe Tentacruel or Lapras (or Slowbro/king?), even if that does add triple weaknesses (as in: 3 mon with the same weakness) again.

Actually, type wise, if you're looking to replace Flareon, a fighting type might be ideal. This gives no triple weaknesses whether you have Onix or Steelix. Wasn't there a Tyrogue or Machop gift Pokémon somewhere earlyish game? Hitmonlee in particular also adds a great style bonus.

I think those are your most important options, purely going by memory. Oh, after the 8th gym in that cave I think you can also get Dratini and possibly Horsea. Dragons are aways strong.

Edit: And you can also go back south to surf up a Quagsire. It works well despite its stats because there are barely any grass types in Johto.




> Eeyup, I'll admit to being off, too.  Although part of me wants this to be a troll reveal and Ash will show up at the end of the first season of the new series with _Raichu_, so they can walk away saying, "Yes, that was the end of Ash and Pikachu's adventures."  
> 
> ... I know they're not gonna do it, but another part of me wants this last season to have Kurt open the GS Ball.


Those would both be good things to adress in the final season: what was in that friggin ball they dragged around for a season, and will Pikachu ever evolve or reach some other state of ultimate awesomeness?

----------


## Celestia

> Wait, really?
> 
> I'm playing Crystal very casually, so that was _not_ the reaction I was expecting . What's so bad about my team?
> 
> I usually pick Pokemon based on whether or not I like their types. I'm fairly new to Pokemon (Shield and Let's Go Pikachu are the only other games I've played), so I have no idea what's considered a good Pokemon or not.


Magneton has good stats and great typing. The problem is that it has an abysmal move list. It's best attacking move is ThunderShock until it learns Zap Cannon at level 53. Otherwise, you'll have to fork over 5500 game coins for a Thunder TM. It's a good wall, but it just can't do anything useful beyond taking hits.

Togetic is one of the worst fully evolved Pokémon in the game with bad stats and a worse move list. It has nothing going for it. Your best option is non-STAB Fire Blast off of a mediocre special attack because it's physical STAB moves are completely useless.

Haunter, assuming you eventually evolve it, gas great stats. Unfortunately, both its STAB moves are physical. In fact, your only usable special moves are Dream Eater and Thunder as the Psychic TM is post game. If you can't evolve it, though, then it doesn't even have good stats.

Gyarados has amazing stats and was one of the best Pokémon in Gen 1. Unfortunately, the split of special attack and special defense did not go in Gyarados's favor, and in Gen 2, its expansive move pool is now worthless. You're stuck with Thrash and Hyper Beam because everything else is a special move.

Onix is just a terrible Pokemon it's got great defense and literally nothing else. It has worse damage output than an Oddish.

Now, if you're having fun, that's great. I didn't say all this to try and persuade or convince you of anything. You asked me why they're bad, so I explained it. But don't take that to mean you have to change anything unless you want to. Play however you enjoy playing. As Karen of the Elite Four said, "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best."

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

So, if mjp is looking for new team members, which ones would you recommend in this game, entirely from your perspective?

I'm kind if curious now, you obviously know the games well, so I might take the advice with me to my own next run.

----------


## Celestia

> So, if mjp is looking for new team members, which ones would you recommend in this game, enrirely from your perspective?
> 
> I'm kind if curious now, you obviously know the games well, so I might take the advice with me to my own next run.


First: Typhlosion. Fire types are generally good in every generation, and this is the only one worth using in Gen 2. Arcanine is theoretically good, but you don't get Flamethrower until level 50. Also, unless you're lucky and get a Fire Stone from Schoolboy Alan calling you, you can't get one until Kanto.

Second: Fearow or Crobat. Both have good stats. Fearow has better STAB moves while Crobat has better resistances. Both are fine.

Third: Ampharos. It's not a fantastic Pokémon and not one worth using in any other generation, but it's the best electric type in Johto, and electric is a good type to have. If Magneton has a better move list, I'd suggest it, instead, but being stuck with ThunderShock until the post-game or being forced to gamble for Thunder is not good.

Fourth: Espeon. It's not Gen 1 anymore, but Psychic is still really good. Just make sure you evolve it before level 36 so that you get Psybeam. Don't want to wait until level 47 to get a STAB move. If trading is on the table, Alakazan is a better choice.

Fifth: Choose-Your-Own-Water-Type Adventure! There's lots of options available, and most of them are good. Hard to go wrong here. I'd recommend Lapras, though. It gets Ice Beam at 36, and that's great against Clair and Lance.

Sixth: Do whatever. The team is good enough as is and won't struggle against any of the boss fights. Maybe pick something that can learn Earthquake.

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## Kareeah_Indaga

> or being forced to gamble for Thunder is not good.


Do people actually _gamble_ at the Game Corner? Because I always just dumped money in to buy whatever coins I needed for whatever I wanted.

----------


## Celestia

> Do people actually _gamble_ at the Game Corner? Because I always just dumped money in to buy whatever coins I needed for whatever I wanted.


If you want to spend 110,000 Poké Dollars for one TM, I'm not going to rock your boat.

----------


## tonberrian

Save gambling is even MORE tedious.

----------


## Spore

> So, if mjp is looking for new team members, which ones would you recommend in this game, entirely from your perspective?
> 
> I'm kind if curious now, you obviously know the games well, so I might take the advice with me to my own next run.


I dont see which game but considering Celestia's response I assume GSC in Gen 2.

Crobat is awesome. You find Zubats everywhere, it is fast, does great damage, and what it walls, it walls great (namely fighting types, ground, grass and poison).

Feraligatr. Great pool, but middling speed and being forced to special to its stab moves makes it a bit worse than Typhlosion, but I prefer the bulk, the starter with the ice type, and its a crocodile kaiju. 

Slowbro is a very nice replacement though. Better on the special side, better stabs (plus Psychic is still OP both as attack and type).

Arcanine is a great pokemon, but it suffers from the fact that you have to delay the Firestone until at least the seventh gym to get all the moves as Growlithe. But it is fluffy and awesome.

Ampharos because it is cute, powerful and fluffy. Plus there is this extremely injoke about a Nuzlocker's Ampharos Bipen which he roleplays as a bit stupid thinking it was a dragon type and then Mega Ampharos BECAME a dragon type: https://the-phijkchu-cult.fandom.com...chu_Mega_Bipen

Primeape is awesome. There are no strings attached, no trade evo, no dojo to beat, just punch. Plus my favorite Fighting type Hariyama is one gen removed.

Clefable. Such an awesome sixth party member. Normal is a good filler for anything. I call 'mons like them "TM slaves". Need an electric, fire, ice move and thunder wave on the same mon? Pick it.

Honorable mentions: Alakazam is always a hassle to evolve and OP for if you want to crush the games. Victreebel and Vileplume are great grass types but I found them always to be a bit boring compared to Venusaur. I like Starmie but its availabilty ruins it for me yet again, as is Kingdra. Plus Quagsire would be the superior water type to all due to its immunity, but for one I do not want to abuse the game by picking Chikorita, so Silver has a Typhlosion and then just mop the entire game with a single pokemon. Because between it and Crobat, there is little the game can do to touch either.

----------


## Kareeah_Indaga

> If you want to spend 110,000 Poké Dollars for one TM, I'm not going to rock your boat.


As opposed to spending it on...?

----------


## Celestia

> Primeape is awesome. There are no strings attached, ...


The attached string is that it is not obtainable in Crystal.

Also, Clefable is post-game exclusive.

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## Lvl 2 Expert

> Those would both be good things to adress in the final season: what was in that friggin ball they dragged around for a season, and will Pikachu ever evolve or reach some other state of ultimate awesomeness?


Actually, I might be most curious about the Team Rocket trio. They wasted 25 years of their life following some twerp for his Pikachu. Okay, well, maybe more like ten years, they've gotten less one note, but they still haven't exactly moved on. I kind of want them to have if not a happy end certainly an end. Maybe retire to that place where they left Arbok and Weezing to help protect the wild Pokémon. Get a job there as wardens or something. Or build out their snack sales business they've been working on during major tournaments.

----------


## Spore

> The attached string is that it is not obtainable in Crystal.
> 
> Also, Clefable is post-game exclusive.


That is an odd choice, but anyway, more space for Nidoking!

----------


## MCerberus

> Actually, I might be most curious about the Team Rocket trio. They wasted 25 years of their life following some twerp for his Pikachu. Okay, well, maybe more like ten years, they've gotten less one note, but they still haven't exactly moved on. I kind of want them to have if not a happy end certainly an end. Maybe retire to that place where they left Arbok and Weezing to help protect the wild Pokémon. Get a job there as wardens or something. Or build out their snack sales business they've been working on during major tournaments.


For the sake of humanity I would hope they apply for disability and get a battery of tests to see how thousands of electrocutions effects the mind and body. Spend their days at the beach. Remember they used to be most-wanted criminals, the best in Rocket... then they started getting zapped.

----------


## Lord Raziere

> For the sake of humanity I would hope they apply for disability and get a battery of tests to see how thousands of electrocutions effects the mind and body. Spend their days at the beach. Remember they used to be most-wanted criminals, the best in Rocket... then they started getting zapped.


if they saved up enough money from all their side jobs to retire, maybe? but they spend a lot on those failed inventions, man. not good at long term planning those three.

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## OracleofWuffing

> Those would both be good things to adress in the final season: what was in that friggin ball they dragged around for a season, and will Pikachu ever evolve or reach some other state of ultimate awesomeness?


There _is_ an answer to the friggin' ball question, although it wasn't actually delivered in the anime proper.  I'm just kind of a fan of answering questions that happened in the cartoon, within the realm of the cartoon.  An actual resolution at this point is just going to be pulling out an answer out of their butts at this point since they can't really do what they wanted to do, but hey, if they're gonna have someone try to catch Mew before they celebrate all the previous major plot points I don't see the harm in revisiting it.
*Spoiler: I guess it's a spoiler since it never happened?*
Show




> In an interview with Masamitsu Hidaka in 2008, it was explained that the GS Ball was originally going to contain a Celebi that was to be the star of a large arc of the Johto saga. However, it was decided that Celebi would be the star of the fourth movie, so the story arc was viewed as redundant and shelved. The Ball was left with Kurt with the hopes that viewers would eventually forget about it.


Basically, Celebi was Meloetta before it was cool  :Small Wink:

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## Mark Hall

They Boy got Arceus and Let's Go, Pikachu for Christmas, so we've been looking into that. He plays for a while, gets stuck, then I play my game until I get past it, then we switch so he can play until he gets stuck again. That's just Arceus; I haven't tried Let's Go Pikachu, yet.

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## Spore

> if they saved up enough money from all their side jobs to retire, maybe? but they spend a lot on those failed inventions, man. not good at long term planning those three.


I know they wrote them to "always be chasing Pikachu, whereever it goes" which is an extremely sentimental thing (but damn it, I love the reasoning) but I have always assumed when Team Rocket is retired, they will be a) a couple b) very successful doing legal jobs. Because they show smarts, they are crafty and whenever their disguises go too far, they always show that they are even better at doing proper jobs than thievery.

Regardless, I have changed my mind on Scarlet/Violet. Yes it looks underoptimized, but what I have seen (and spoiled myself, intentionally) of the story and encounters, it is an awesome game. Now if the core gameplay is not drowned in 25 pointless battles against toddlers (i.e. I can skip almost all trainers this time) it is the game for me - after it has been patched to run smoother.

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## TaiLiu

> I usually pick Pokemon based on whether or not I like their types. I'm fairly new to Pokemon (Shield and Let's Go Pikachu are the only other games I've played), so I have no idea what's considered a good Pokemon or not.


Oh, cool! How'd you get into Pokémon? And why a game as early as _Crystal_? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

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## Bartmanhomer

> Oh, cool! How'd you get into Pokémon? And why a game as early as _Crystal_? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)


I'm an old-school Pokemon player myself. The only Pokemon game that I played was the first generation.  :Smile:

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## TaiLiu

> I'm an old-school Pokemon player myself. The only Pokemon game that I played was the first generation.


How'd you get into it, and why'd you stop at Gen I? I think you follow the anime but I guess you don't play the games.

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## Bartmanhomer

> How'd you get into it, and why'd you stop at Gen I? I think you follow the anime but I guess you don't play the games.


I was very young back then and Pokemon was very popular back in the early 90s. How I got did I got into it because I was interested to get the trading cards and the game. Why did I stop because I lost interest and bored with Pokemon? I only watch the first season of the Pokemon anime.

----------


## TaiLiu

> I was very young back then and Pokemon was very popular back in the early 90s. How I got did I got into it because I was interested to get the trading cards and the game. Why did I stop because I lost interest and bored with Pokemon? I only watch the first season of the Pokemon anime.


Oh, cool! So you're not interested in what Pokémon is doing now, just the old Pokémon stuff? I used to be almost wholly interested in Hoenn Pokémon, so I think I can relate.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Just because that I don't play recent Pokemon games doesn't mean that I hate Pokemon. I mean don't get me wrong there are good Pokemon to research and they're very useful for writing fan fiction stories.  :Wink:

----------


## TaiLiu

> Just because that I don't play recent Pokemon games doesn't mean that I hate Pokemon. I mean don't get me wrong there are good Pokemon to research and they're very useful for writing fan fiction stories.


I know you don't hate Pokémon. It'd be weird to post in this thread if you did! Also, your signature's about Pokémon.  :Small Tongue:  

I was just unclear about what things you like about Pokémon. I know you like the old stuff: the first gen + the first season of the show. And not the latest games or anime episodes. So I'm guessing you like the old stuff and not necessarily the new stuff.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I know you don't hate Pokémon. It'd be weird to post in this thread if you did! Also, your signature's about Pokémon.  
> 
> I was just unclear about what things you like about Pokémon. I know you like the old stuff: the first gen + the first season of the show. And not the latest games or anime episodes. So I'm guessing you like the old stuff and not necessarily the new stuff.


I haven't caught up on the latest game and anime even though I google it to catch up on the latest Pokemon. But I did play the oldest version of Pokemon Go many years ago.  :Smile:

----------


## Celestia

> Regardless, I have changed my mind on Scarlet/Violet. Yes it looks underoptimized, but what I have seen (and spoiled myself, intentionally) of the story and encounters, it is an awesome game. Now if the core gameplay is not drowned in 25 pointless battles against toddlers (i.e. I can skip almost all trainers this time) it is the game for me - after it has been patched to run smoother.


All trainer battles are optional, though you may want to do at least some of them, anyways, as you get rewards for doing so, and most of those rewards are quite good.

And I definitely recommend these games. The graphics and animation are ass, and it's a buggy mess, but the characters and writing are the best in the franchise. I legit loved every main character in the game. If you want to wait for an optimization patch, I completely understand.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Also, I'm going to add that all Pokemon (Generation 1-9) are pretty dope. Dope is urban slang for exceptional.  :Smile:

----------


## boj0

Yeah, I'm going to agree with that; almost 25 years, and I think I can agree that Pokemon is great. I can't think of any other series I've cared about nearly as much.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yeah, I'm going to agree with that; almost 25 years, and I think I can agree that Pokemon is great. I can't think of any other series I've cared about nearly as much.


Yes. I really can't wait for Generation 10 but that is a few years for now.

----------


## TaiLiu

> I haven't caught up on the latest game and anime even though I google it to catch up on the latest Pokemon. But I did play the oldest version of Pokemon Go many years ago.


Oh, cool!




> Also, I'm going to add that all Pokemon (Generation 1-9) are pretty dope. Dope is urban slang for exceptional.


Polite disagree on some Pokémon. But yeah, almost all Pokémon are pretty cool.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Polite disagree on some Pokémon. But yeah, almost all Pokémon are pretty cool.


Ok. Which Pokemon do you disagree on?  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

> Ok. Which Pokemon do you disagree on?


I don't care for Jynx. Relatedly, I also dislike the many of the human-like Pokémon, which are mostly early gen fighting types. Hitmonchan has flesh clothes and looks like a man. Mr. Mime is just some dude.

I think they've been making more animal-like fighting types recently. Starting from Mienfoo on, I don't think we've had any more fighting type people Pokémon. Which is a relief.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I don't care for Jynx. Relatedly, I also dislike the many of the human-like Pokémon, which are mostly early gen fighting types. Hitmonchan has flesh clothes and looks like a man. Mr. Mime is just some dude.
> 
> I think they've been making more animal-like fighting types recently. Starting from Mienfoo on, I don't think we've had any more fighting type people Pokémon. Which is a relief.


Jynx is very controversial. Hitmonchan and Mr. Mime, I have no issue with these Pokemon but I wouldn't consider them my favorite Pokemon.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Jynx is very controversial. Hitmonchan and Mr. Mime, I have no issue with these Pokemon but I wouldn't consider them my favorite Pokemon.


Yeah, I've no affinity with them, either. I've been to zoos and felt very uncomfortable with primates in enclosures even though everyone around me seemed to enjoy it. So I guess everyone has different standards for what's too human-like. Mine might be pretty low, so maybe that's why we feel different.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> Yeah, I've no affinity with them, either. I've been to zoos and felt very uncomfortable with primates in enclosures even though everyone around me seemed to enjoy it. So I guess everyone has different standards for what's too human-like. Mine might be pretty low, so maybe that's why we feel different.


We all have our likes and dislikes. I like Magikarp. I know what you're thinking: Why would I like a very useless Pokemon like Magikarp? Well, I like Magikarp in the anime when it said "Magikarp, Karp, Karp!" Also, Magikarp can evolve into Gyarados. Which Gyarados is my second favorite Pokemon? I don't like Voltorb and Electrode. Very uncreative and boring to my taste. No thank you.  :Yuk:

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I've been watching a lot of those "Can I beat Pokémon [Blank] with only a [Blank]" videos lately. It's kind of the mashed potatoes of Pokémon Challenge runs, and the answer is always yes. (Except for mons like Magikarp and Caterpie if you don't allow trainer items in battle, which thankfully most of these video's don't because that makes the runs boring.) But anyway, they are somehow kind of nice to bingewatch, and I've been getting the urge to do one of my own. I'm not actually going to do it, not with a video anyway, because it's too much work, I don't want to become a professional Youtuber and if you're not posting video after video trying to make it big barely anyone will see your work anyway, but I've been getting the urge anyway. And the urge is to do an oldish vs newish showdown, doing an Armaldo* solo run (plain start as Armaldo or to show an even stronger contrast Anorith into Armaldo) in Emerald and in Omega Ruby. It's a great showcase of how much the small mechanical changes matter in these games. Generation 4 and 5 introduce so many good attacks (and existing attacks are tweaked to become good), support moves and held items that make life so much easier for this mon. Sure, a ground type with earthquake or a psychic type with, well, psychic, is good in any generation. But Armaldo gets pretty much nothing in terms of bug or rock moves, and most of what it does get has a non-100 accuracy, without options like hone claws of wide lens being available. Gen 6 itself doesn't add much in moves, items or abilities, but for this idea I'd still prefer it over gen 5 because the Hoenn remakes were used as a moment to take a look at the levels at which the generation 3 mon learn their moves and the points at which TM's and such become available. Water gun before the rock gym**, the only place you're going to use it? Much appreciated. A rock and a bug attack by level 13 rather than by level 37 in X and Y or even level 43 in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald? Yes please. I might actually just prepare and play these runs without the whole "too much work" idea of filming and publishing it to see just how bad I can make gen 3 feel. (There are also ways in which gen 6 is harder, like improvements to opposing teams and a lack of badge boosts, (edit: and ancient power being special now) but the extra options you get should have a bigger effect.) And that's generation 3, the one where it looked like Gamefreak had mostly learned what they were doing. You can probably make an even stronger case by using Kabutops or something rather than Armaldo and including generation 1.

Anyway, That doesn't add much to the discussion, but those are my Pokémon thoughts for this week.

* Armaldo seems to be quickly becoming one of my favorite Pokémon since I realised it might be the answer to "if I was a pokémon, which one would I be?" A flawed answer, but one of the better ones available.
** Okay, sure, you're not supposed to have Anorith before the rock gym in a regular playthrough, but it's always nice when they aim for a believable world wherein a pokémon you trade over to a new game doesn't suck just because you're doing a little sequence breaking.

----------


## Taevyr

> I've been watching a lot of those "Can I beat Pokémon [Blank] with only a [Blank]" videos lately. It's kind of the mashed potatoes of Pokémon Challenge runs, and the answer is always yes. (Except for mons like Magikarp and Caterpie if you don't allow trainer items in battle, which thankfully most of these video's don't because that makes the runs boring.) But anyway, they are somehow kind of nice to bingewatch, and I've been getting the urge to do one of my own. I'm not actually going to do it, not with a video anyway, because it's too much work, I don't want to become a professional Youtuber and if you're not posting video after video trying to make it big barely anyone will see your work anyway, but I've been getting the urge anyway. .


I recently finished a mono-ice run of pokémon reborn (fangame, not a romhack but essentially a new region built from the ground up) and did some after-action reports/AARs of the more challenging fights and victory road/league on the subreddit: it's nothing big, but it was pretty fun getting some reaction to it. I've kind of been feeling like doing a fully "liveblogged" challenge run since, making AARS after every gym/rival battle/etc. Won't make me famous, but the interactions it gave on a smaller forum were pretty fun.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

I made a comic ones (photoshopped from sprites and backgrounds) about a ground type Nuzlocke I did, on the official(ish) Nuzlocke forums. Well, half a comic. I did end up finishing the run, but it had kind of become a solo run, and the comic just didn't feel like it was really worth finishing anymore.

----------


## Mark Hall

And I got the Boy a Pokemon Go account. He spent most of yesterday blissed out, on a walk around a local shopping center, catching Pokemon and hitting pokestops.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

> They Boy got Arceus and Let's Go, Pikachu for Christmas, so we've been looking into that. He plays for a while, gets stuck, then I play my game until I get past it, then we switch so he can play until he gets stuck again. That's just Arceus; I haven't tried Let's Go Pikachu, yet.





> And I got the Boy a Pokemon Go account. He spent most of yesterday blissed out, on a walk around a local shopping center, catching Pokemon and hitting pokestops.


Nice. Another champ in the making.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Nice. Another champ in the making.


I've been letting him play Go on my account for a few months. He's got his own tag, and once we can arrange time with my wife's phone, we're going to half-empty my pokemon storage into his account.

----------


## Spore

> And that's generation 3, the one where it looked like Gamefreak had mostly learned what they were doing. You can probably make an even stronger case by using Kabutops or something rather than Armaldo and including generation 1.


Pokemon is imho a decade old tradition of throwing stuff on a wall and seeing what sticks. Gen 1 + 2 were competitive nightmares; who decided maxxing ALL stats was a good idea removing any and all form of specialization from an RPG? Sure rare ingame pokemon like Tauros and Snorlax were better than the rest, but having them dominate so hard was a mistake. But there was no online competition in 1999.

But from a "writing perspective" I prefer mixed attackers or slightly bulkier types instead of heavily lopsided physical or special attackers. Yes, Gyarados is a cool pokemon. No I do not like how a GIANT SEA MONSTER who can shoot energy beams and water beams deals no damage, but biting does. Yes, I understand how it is kind of needed to balance a sea snake. No I don't like how a little yellow mouse (any pika clone really) can just shuffle on a rug and murder it with the power of static electricity (ever had a Special Sweeper use Nuzzle on a sweeper Gyarados? It is DEVASTATING.)

I get that tinier pokemon need to be viable for other kinds of players to enjoy the game, but I simply cannot look at an Arcanine or Lucario or Haxorus do battle to a Dedenne and not look pitifully at the tiny mouse.

----------


## MCerberus

Another fun example of 6x murder fun is that the original dragons, meant to be rare, valuable and powerful beyond reason and used by the second most powerful trainers in the game get blasted by an ice cream cone. If I remember typings correctly you can also kill godzilla real easy by punching it in the face.

There still is some success in having types other than edgy and bulky becoming powerful. There's the ever-present foxpuppies, Chancey, Primerina et al. And one must remember this comic.

----------


## Cygnia

Been going after the Scatterbug collection on Go right now.  I just need two more bloody Ocean postcards... *sighs*

----------


## Mark Hall

Just looked at completing that Cherrim request in Arceus. Looks like I have to grind shaking trees. Bugger.

----------


## Celestia

> Just looked at completing that Cherrim request in Arceus. Looks like I have to grind shaking trees. Bugger.


Hey, it used to be worse. There was a bug that made it literally impossible to catch Cherrim; it would just break out of every ball you threw. You'd have to catch a Cherubi and evolve it.

----------


## MCerberus

> Hey, it used to be worse. There was a bug that made it literally impossible to catch Cherrim; it would just break out of every ball you threw. You'd have to catch a Cherubi and evolve it.


Still, after the bug fix, I believe the most accurate walkthrough for that quest was written in Dante's Inferno.

----------


## TaiLiu

> We all have our likes and dislikes. I like Magikarp. I know what you're thinking: Why would I like a very useless Pokemon like Magikarp? Well, I like Magikarp in the anime when it said "Magikarp, Karp, Karp!" Also, Magikarp can evolve into Gyarados. Which Gyarados is my second favorite Pokemon? I don't like Voltorb and Electrode. Very uncreative and boring to my taste. No thank you.


I'm not thinking that at all, since Magikarp's relatively popular. It has a lot of media appearances, there's an entire game starring Magikarp, and recently there was half an anime episode dedicated to Magikarp. Pretty cool that Gyarados is your second favorite. I had a red one when I played _SoulSilver_ and I also have a Gyrados t-shirt. I like to wear it when it's rainy. Then I can pretend Gryrados is the one making it rain.  :Small Big Grin: 

I like Voltorb and Electrode just cuz they remind me of the hilarious "Jiggypuff from above" episode.




> No I do not like how a GIANT SEA MONSTER who can shoot energy beams and water beams deals no damage, but biting does.
> 
> I get that tinier pokemon need to be viable for other kinds of players to enjoy the game, but I simply cannot look at an Arcanine or Lucario or Haxorus do battle to a Dedenne and not look pitifully at the tiny mouse.


That's an advantage that Gens 1-3 have. Hyper Beam is physical, so Gyrados rocks at using it.

Yeah, Pokemon just kinda ignore mass (and momentum). In the show Pikachu is seen often hitting Pokemon much larger with its tail and somehow both Pokemon are evenly matched.




> Just looked at completing that Cherrim request in Arceus. Looks like I have to grind shaking trees. Bugger.


Is _Arceus_ a grindy game? Was thinking about it for the innovative mechanics but was worried that it'd be a slog to get through.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

If you were a pokémon, what type would you be? I've developed a simple test that can tell what your type would be with over 90% accuracy! No really, over 90%, guaranteed!

To take the test, you must answer one simple question: what is your favorite (English) pokémon theme song?

*Spoiler: answer key*
Show

Your favorite is "Gotta catch 'em all!" by Jason Paige, written for the first season: Normal type

Any other answer: you are the other <10%.  :Small Big Grin:

----------


## Celestia

> Is _Arceus_ a grindy game? Was thinking about it for the innovative mechanics but was worried that it'd be a slog to get through.


Kind of. You do need to advance your rank within the Galaxy Team by completing research tasks. However, catching and battling Pokémon is literally the core mechanic, and I can find no fault in a game telling you to engage with the game. If you like it, you won't need to "grind" because you'll be trying to complete the Pokedex, anyways. If you don't like it, then you're not going to want to play in the first place.

The only real grinding in the game is trying to 100% complete the dex, and that's only necessary if you want to get the secret boss fight. You only need to reach rank 5 to finish all the story.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

> I'm not thinking that at all, since Magikarp's relatively popular. It has a lot of media appearances, there's an entire game starring Magikarp, and recently there was half an anime episode dedicated to Magikarp. Pretty cool that Gyarados is your second favorite. I had a red one when I played _SoulSilver_ and I also have a Gyrados t-shirt. I like to wear it when it's rainy. Then I can pretend Gryrados is the one making it rain. 
> 
> I like Voltorb and Electrode just cuz they remind me of the hilarious "Jiggypuff from above" episode.


Ok, that's good then.  :Smile:

----------


## TaiLiu

> *Spoiler: answer key*
> Show
> 
> Your favorite is "Gotta catch 'em all!" by Jason Paige, written for the first season: Normal type
> 
> Any other answer: you are the other <10%.


*Spoiler*
Show

Is that why I'm not immune to ghost type attacks? 😭





> Kind of. You do need to advance your rank within the Galaxy Team by completing research tasks. However, catching and battling Pokémon is literally the core mechanic, and I can find no fault in a game telling you to engage with the game. If you like it, you won't need to "grind" because you'll be trying to complete the Pokedex, anyways. If you don't like it, then you're not going to want to play in the first place.
> 
> The only real grinding in the game is trying to 100% complete the dex, and that's only necessary if you want to get the secret boss fight. You only need to reach rank 5 to finish all the story.


Gotcha! That's encouraging, then.




> Ok, that's good then.


Sure is.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Bartmanhomer

Gyarados are very useful and viable in later generations in competitive scenes from what I heard.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Gyarados are very useful and viable in later generations in competitive scenes from what I heard.


Oh, cool. I didn't know that. It's fun in Gen IV but oh man do I wish I had more moves.

----------


## tyckspoon

> Oh, cool. I didn't know that. It's fun in Gen IV but oh man do I wish I had more moves.


Intimidate is a really useful ability, it's got decent defensive stats and typing (just watch out for anything carrying an Electric move), and as you go through later generations they gain access to more and more moves that help cover for gaps in its moveset so it can attack with pretty good coverage from its better Attack stat (competitively, you're usually trying to get to switch it into a physical attacker that it threatens and then set up with Dragon Dance while the opponent is effectively forced to switch out their penalized 'mon.) It's never really like meta defining, but it's also never a bad pokemon. They're usually staples for in-game teams, too, since you can almost always get a Magikarp pretty early on and grind it up to a Gyarados at a relatively low level - it's often available much earlier than other similarly good pokemon.

----------


## Razade

Spent most of the day wonder-trading off a bunch of starters. Got the usual...not great stuff...back but a few cool gets here and there.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Intimidate is a really useful ability, it's got decent defensive stats and typing (just watch out for anything carrying an Electric move), and as you go through later generations they gain access to more and more moves that help cover for gaps in its moveset so it can attack with pretty good coverage from its better Attack stat (competitively, you're usually trying to get to switch it into a physical attacker that it threatens and then set up with Dragon Dance while the opponent is effectively forced to switch out their penalized 'mon.) It's never really like meta defining, but it's also never a bad pokemon. They're usually staples for in-game teams, too, since you can almost always get a Magikarp pretty early on and grind it up to a Gyarados at a relatively low level - it's often available much earlier than other similarly good pokemon.


Oh I see! That makes sense.

----------


## Mark Hall

> Is _Arceus_ a grindy game? Was thinking about it for the innovative mechanics but was worried that it'd be a slog to get through.


I would not classify it as such, because the grind isn't "battle randomly to increase my power", but "Achieve these goals with these Pokemon", and you have a slate of varied goals, including catching them, defeating them in combat, seeing them use certain moves (even if you're the one controlling them), and, sometimes, quests. Once you've gotten 10 of these, and caught one of that type of Pokemon, the entry is complete and you can move on if you want.

So, for example, I was "grinding" Rhyperior. There was "Catch X", "Defeat Y", "See them use Rock Slide Z times", and "See them use strong-style moves A times", plus a few others. Each would have different thresholds, and Rhyperior's pokedex entry is complete once you've hit a total of 10 of those thresholds. So, while grinding Rhyperior, I used a lot of Strong-Style Rockslides, since that would give me ticks in two different categories, advancing towards two different plateaus. I finally completed him by switching to a power I don't like (Double Edge, since it hurts you to do it), and using it once.

While you do have to grind a bit to complete Pokedex entries, it is not "wander around this desert until you get enough random encounters". You have immediate goals, some of which you can achieve by using the Pokemon in question, and those goals are relatively small and achievable, so you're switching them up. For example, last night I finished up almost all of my current companions, so I switched out everyone (except my starter, a Decidueye, and Rhyperior, since I was still grinding him). I am now working on new Pokemon while playing the game normally, doing little quests, and advancing as I go.

----------


## Cygnia

Got my last Scatterbug Ocean postcard pinned -- MY LONG NATIONAL NIGHTMARE IS OVER~!

----------


## TaiLiu

> I would not classify it as such, because the grind isn't "battle randomly to increase my power", but "Achieve these goals with these Pokemon", and you have a slate of varied goals, including catching them, defeating them in combat, seeing them use certain moves (even if you're the one controlling them), and, sometimes, quests. Once you've gotten 10 of these, and caught one of that type of Pokemon, the entry is complete and you can move on if you want.
> 
> So, for example, I was "grinding" Rhyperior. There was "Catch X", "Defeat Y", "See them use Rock Slide Z times", and "See them use strong-style moves A times", plus a few others. Each would have different thresholds, and Rhyperior's pokedex entry is complete once you've hit a total of 10 of those thresholds. So, while grinding Rhyperior, I used a lot of Strong-Style Rockslides, since that would give me ticks in two different categories, advancing towards two different plateaus. I finally completed him by switching to a power I don't like (Double Edge, since it hurts you to do it), and using it once.
> 
> While you do have to grind a bit to complete Pokedex entries, it is not "wander around this desert until you get enough random encounters". You have immediate goals, some of which you can achieve by using the Pokemon in question, and those goals are relatively small and achievable, so you're switching them up. For example, last night I finished up almost all of my current companions, so I switched out everyone (except my starter, a Decidueye, and Rhyperior, since I was still grinding him). I am now working on new Pokemon while playing the game normally, doing little quests, and advancing as I go.


Gotcha! Maybe I'll check it out some time in the future, then. I was just previously worried that it'd be a lil like those MMPRPGs that have you collect 25 snail bones or whatever.  :Small Smile:

----------


## MCerberus

> Gotcha! Maybe I'll check it out some time in the future, then. I was just previously worried that it'd be a lil like those MMPRPGs that have you collect 25 snail bones or whatever.


Warning: there is one mon locked behind an INCREDIBLY tedious scavenger hunt.

----------


## Celestia

> Once you've gotten 10 of these, and caught one of that type of Pokemon, the entry is complete and you can move on if you want.


You need ten research points, not ten tasks. All tasks with the red symbol next to it are worth double points, so you can be more efficient with your work, often only needing to complete five or six tasks rather than a full ten, especially since catching is always worth double.

----------


## Mark Hall

> You need ten research points, not ten tasks. All tasks with the red symbol next to it are worth double points, so you can be more efficient with your work, often only needing to complete five or six tasks rather than a full ten, especially since catching is always worth double.


Ah! I did not realize those were worth double points.

----------


## Mando Knight

> Warning: there is one mon locked behind an INCREDIBLY tedious scavenger hunt.


Two of them, if you count completing Unown research.

----------


## Celestia

> Ah! I did not realize those were worth double points.


Yeah, the game, admittedly, does not do a good job of explaining that.

----------


## TaiLiu

> Warning: there is one mon locked behind an INCREDIBLY tedious scavenger hunt.


That sucks. Is the Pokémon cool or is it like no big deal if you skip it?

----------


## LaZodiac

> That sucks. Is the Pokémon cool or is it like no big deal if you skip it?


Do you think Spiritomb is cool or not?

Also do you like getting incremental rewards as you collect one hundred glowy things?

----------


## TaiLiu

> Do you think Spiritomb is cool or not?
> 
> Also do you like getting incremental rewards as you collect one hundred glowy things?


Oo, I've never had a spiritomb before, though dark/ghost used to be cooler when it offered no weaknesses. One hundred glowy things is a lot, though... so I guess it depends on the rewards.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Androgeus

> One hundred glowy things is a lot, though... so I guess it depends on the rewards.


It's actually 107 glowy things

----------


## Lans

Looking for some Pokemon Go friends to send gifts to for the winter event, my trainer code is 9724 5386 5444

----------


## Razade

> Oo, I've never had a spiritomb before, though dark/ghost used to be cooler when it offered no weaknesses. One hundred glowy things is a lot, though... so I guess it depends on the rewards.


People are making it sound a lot more tedious than it is, they're pretty easy to spot at night and you get flying fairly early in the game which gives you a pretty good view of the areas. A few of them are, admittedly, a pain but most of the 107 you can spot without too much trouble. As LaZodiac said, you also get stuff for turning them in. Mostly you get materials to make PokeBalls but you also get the Evolution Stones and things of that nature, so it's beneficial to find them regardless of the payout. The NPC that gives the quest also tells you how many of each you're missing in each area, so you're never left guessing how many you need from an area.

----------


## Celestia

> ... and you get flying fairly early in the game ...


{scrubbed}. It's literally the last ride Pokémon you obtain. You get it roughly 3/4 of the way through the game, and that's being generous.

----------


## Razade

> {scrub the post, scrub the quote}. It's literally the last ride Pokémon you obtain. You get it roughly 3/4 of the way through the game, and that's being generous.


You took a lot more time than I did then, game doesn't really open up until you get flight if you're looking to get the field objectives done. You can't even get all the Pokemon until you've completed past the last Ride Pokemon. You absolutely *can't* get all 107 Spiritomb orbs without it.

----------


## Celestia

> You took a lot more time than I did then, game doesn't really open up until you get flight if you're looking to get the field objectives done. You can't even get all the Pokemon until you've completed past the last Ride Pokemon. You absolutely *can't* get all 107 Spiritomb orbs without it.


"Doesn't open up?" Until after you've nearly finished the entire story? Are you sure we're talking about the same game here?

And you absolutely *can* get all the wisps before flight. It doesn't actually unlock any areas; it just makes movement across the map easier.

----------


## Razade

> "Doesn't open up?" Until after you've nearly finished the entire story? Are you sure we're talking about the same game here?
> 
> And you absolutely *can* get all the wisps before flight. It doesn't actually unlock any areas; it just makes movement across the map easier.


Pretty sure we are, yeah. Legends Arceus. The story isn't the sum total of the game. There's stuff to do even after you finish the story and you, as I said, can't actually finish the field guide until the post-story content. There's a good chunk of game left to go even after you get flight, and it's not difficult to just beeline for it before you do anything else in the area.

More than happy to concede that there may be ways to get all the Wisps without flying, never claimed it opened up new areas however. Regardless of whether you need flying or not, it makes getting all the Wisps a lot easier and that was my point. Mostly that as far as collect-a-thon's go, it's not so bad because the game gives you the tools to do it, rewards for doing it along the way as well as the final reward.

----------


## Celestia

> Pretty sure we are, yeah. Legends Arceus. The story isn't the sum total of the game. There's stuff to do even after you finish the story and you, as I said, can't actually finish the field guide until the post-story content. There's a good chunk of game left to go even after you get flight, and it's not difficult to just beeline for it before you do anything else in the area.
> 
> More than happy to concede that there may be ways to get all the Wisps without flying, never claimed it opened up new areas however. Regardless of whether you need flying or not, it makes getting all the Wisps a lot easier and that was my point. Mostly that as far as collect-a-thon's go, it's not so bad because the game gives you the tools to do it, rewards for doing it along the way as well as the final reward.


Well sure. If you just beeline the story and ignore everything else until you're finished, then there'll still be a lot to do afterwards. But, if you take your time to explore and do side quests during the story, you can finish almost everything before flight.

----------


## Razade

> Well sure. If you just beeline the story and ignore everything else until you're finished, then there'll still be a lot to do afterwards. But, if you take your time to explore and do side quests during the story, you can finish almost everything before flight.


Well sure. If you ignore the story and focus on everything else until you're forced to get flight, then there won't be much to do afterwards. But, if you explore plastic to the story, you can still have a lot of exploration, at least four solid quests and an entire boss after getting flight.

----------


## enderlord99

> Well sure. If you just beeline the story and ignore everything else until you're finished, then there'll still be a lot to do afterwards. But, if you take your time to explore and do side quests during the story, you can finish almost everything before flight.





> Well sure. If you ignore the story and focus on everything else until you're forced to get flight, then there won't be much to do afterwards. But, if you explore plastic to the story, you can still have a lot of exploration, at least four solid quests and an entire boss after getting flight.


It's almost like the game is nonlinear.

----------


## Spore

So I broke on Pokemon Scarlet and I am about halfway through it. I just wish it wasn't such a gem covered in bad performance issues and such boring plain graphics. I watched a Sword playthrough yesterday and the difference is stunning (and Sword isn't the best looking game either). A pokemon box should not lag. I should not be forced to wait for a minute after a Team Star Boss for assets to load back in. 5 fps windmills should not be a thing either.  I feel dirty supporting this cash grab. I feel confused because it is obviously the same engine as PLA, but scaled up and stretched to its absolute maximum.

But for the positives: The story is fantastic. Although the gym leaders are underwhelming and kinda boring (a further proof that the old formula is holding the franchise up), the Team Star thing is awesome (but too short imho). 

*Spoiler: Team Star Team Comp*
Show

Star Mobiles being a final pokemon with specialised abilities, immunity to status effects, a bigger HP pool and tailored moves is so refreshing. The presentation is great (aside from lag and the boss vanishing from the Star Mobile during attacks).


The Herb storyline is heartwarming and yet again, the powered up guardians are a great way to provide a gameplay challenge without buffing the linked pokemon so much they warp and destroy the competitive side.

The gyms thus far are nice, but extremely forgettable imho. Yes, Iono being a streamer is a nice gimmick, but the jokes and references are pretty "cringe" to say the least. It looks like an older person seeing streamers wrote her, but they don't really know what streamers are like. But normal gym trainers with jobs are usually a one dimensional parody of said job stereotype, barely deeper than the oneliners about shorts, hiking or whatever "job" normal trainers have.

I do enjoy trainers being optional only engaging with the tougher black speech bubble elite students, mostly because the lag from switching to combat, and between pokemon kills all my desire to actually murder 6 magikarp in a row. The movement and open world traversal is very fun, and unlocking more movement options is great.

I will just quote Miyamoto here, and I wish he had a say in Pokemon matters:
_"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"_

----------


## Razade

> It's almost like the game is nonlinear.


*Indeed*. Happy you got my point.




> So I broke on Pokemon Scarlet and I am about halfway through it. I just wish it wasn't such a gem covered in bad performance issues and such boring plain graphics. I watched a Sword playthrough yesterday and the difference is stunning (and Sword isn't the best looking game either). A pokemon box should not lag. I should not be forced to wait for a minute after a Team Star Boss for assets to load back in. 5 fps windmills should not be a thing either.  I feel dirty supporting this cash grab. I feel confused because it is obviously the same engine as PLA, but scaled up and stretched to its absolute maximum.


I have both Scarlet and Violet and I haven't had anything half as bad as this in either game, and I've beaten both. I'm not saying the game is janky, because it is, but do you have your game in digital? If so, do you have it saved to the main memory card? Because these performance issues are pretty bad.

----------


## Celestia

> Well sure. If you ignore the story and focus on everything else until you're forced to get flight, then there won't be much to do afterwards. But, if you explore plastic to the story, you can still have a lot of exploration, at least four solid quests and an entire boss after getting flight.


It's not "ignore the story." The game requires that you reach certain star ranks to progress, and doing side quests as they become available is literally how you play RPGs.




> It's almost like the game is nonlinear.


I don't think you understand what "non-linear" means. Legends Arceus is 100% a linear game. You cannot do anything out of order and must follow the story every step of the way.

----------


## Razade

> It's not "ignore the story." The game requires that you reach certain star ranks to progress, and doing side quests as they become available is literally how you play RPGs.


I'm honestly not interested in arguing back and forth over this when the main point was to express to Tai that the sidequest to get Spiritomb wasn't all that grindy, difficult or tedious and that it rewarded you for doing it, so it was worth doing even if you didn't want to 100% the dex. I don't know why you've taken it up as a personal thing to press the matter on...me perhaps misremembering some of the wisp locations needing flight or how you personally went about the game and unlocked the travel mechanics over side quests but here we are. I guess. 




> I don't think you understand what "non-linear" means. Legends Arceus is 100% a linear game. You cannot do anything out of order and must follow the story every step of the way.


A nonlinear game is a game that provides players with a number of challenges that can be done in any order, not just the main story. Arceus certainly does that, even if there's a linear frame it's built around for its base story. Not all nonlinear games are sandboxes where you can approach them in any way you want. Plenty of nonlinear games present both linear and nonlinear paths during the course of gameplay. Only the most narrow definition of nonlinear game would exclude Arceus. You don't even have to look far in game jurnos to find that all the big ones also term Arceus nonlinear.

----------


## Mark Hall

So, the Boy and I are playing our separate games. He likes to watch me, though the fact that I'm dancing all the way around getting to the next plot point is driving him nuts; I literally circled going to Avalugg's, just filling up my pokedex. But I can't watch him. His way of playing is just BIZARRE to me, bouncing around, yet still fanatically focused on things.

I'm a bit ahead of him, regardless, because while I'm doing lots of side-work and pokedex filling, I'm efficient about it... pick my team, figure out what they need, and spam it until I'm finished with that one, then move on. So, after I beat the Lord of the Isles, I told him how annoying the fight in the lava arena was. I got home yesterday, and he's about to get to the Lord of the Isles fight. Wife and I go to watch TV, and he's yelling at the TV, because that fight SUCKS. And, about 20 minutes later, we hear a triumphant "YES!" from the living room as he finished the fight.

I suspect he'll start wandering a bit, soon; he was looking so forward to getting the fish, and is even more excited about being able to climb.

----------


## TaiLiu

> It's actually 107 glowy things


Oh, I see. "A Pokémon that was formed by 108 spirits. It is bound to a fissure in an Odd Keystone." So you get the first glowy thing and then you gotta hunt down the rest.




> Looking for some Pokemon Go friends to send gifts to for the winter event, my trainer code is 9724 5386 5444


I don't play anymore, but that's super nice to offer. Hope you find lots of friends.  :Small Smile: 




> People are making it sound a lot more tedious than it is, they're pretty easy to spot at night and you get flying fairly early in the game which gives you a pretty good view of the areas. A few of them are, admittedly, a pain but most of the 107 you can spot without too much trouble. As LaZodiac said, you also get stuff for turning them in. Mostly you get materials to make PokeBalls but you also get the Evolution Stones and things of that nature, so it's beneficial to find them regardless of the payout. The NPC that gives the quest also tells you how many of each you're missing in each area, so you're never left guessing how many you need from an area.


Oh, that's encouraging. Like you kinda find them on the way anyway.

----------


## Lvl 2 Expert

Happy year of Bellsprout* people!

*Starting with Bulbasaur in 1996, using the least evolved member of each evolutionary family in the order of appearance of the families. The Nidorans count as one, they got 2007. Last year was the year of Machop, next year is the year of Tentacool. The last year of gen 1 will be the year of Mew in 2072, although due to baby shenenigans we'll get for instance the year of Tyrogue before that, and we've already had the year of Pichu in 2005. I don't know how paradox forms and regional fakes count, but we have about 450 years to start figuring that one out. Yes, I just made this scheme up.

----------


## Spore

> I have both Scarlet and Violet and I haven't had anything half as bad as this in either game, and I've beaten both. I'm not saying the game is janky, because it is, but do you have your game in digital? If so, do you have it saved to the main memory card? Because these performance issues are pretty bad.


A bit late, but yes. I play from memory card, and I have read that it has a memory leak issue and ideally one should restart every so often to clear the cache. I guess it didn't help that my first round with the game was a "short" session of like 8 hours.




> His way of playing is just BIZARRE to me, bouncing around, yet still fanatically focused on things.


If you do not set goals for yourself, S/V is a weird game because I get lost chasing after pokemon like a dog chasing their favorite toy and/or squirrel. This is how I loose tens of hours in Skyrim, and it continues here. At least now with all roads done (gyms, star rushes, ride pokemon abilities) I have "just" the super bosses to do, which I feel wholly unprepared for.

Full teams of diverse pokemon, and I have like 18 'mons switching in and out, and I have no consistent strategy nor am I willing to switch in the "boring old allrounders" to do the job.

I want Clodsire in the team, but it is just very mediocre. An good to OP team would be:

Guardevoir, Meowscarada, Talonflame, Vaporeon, Magnezone, Tyranitar and Dragonite, yet there is no synergy. This team is inelegant, the Sandstorm clogs up my gameplay (the text prompt is annoying), but I wanted to play with T-Tar for ONCE.

----------


## Bartmanhomer

I'm thinking of writing another Pokemon Let's Go fanfiction story about a Mono Bug Type Pokemon trainer. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this Pokemon Bug Type Team:

Beedrill/Mega Beedrill 
Jolly Nature 
U-Turn 
Poison Jab 
Drill Run 
X-Scissor 

Parasect 
Bold Nature 
Leech Seed 
Spore
Protect 
X-Scissor 

Pinsir/Mega Pinsir 
Adamant Nature 
Stealth Rock/Swords Dance 
X-Scissor 
Superpower 
Rock Slide 

Scythe 
Jolly Nature 
Brick Break 
Swords Dance/U-Turn 
Wing Attack/Roost 
X-Scissor 

Butterfree 
Timid/Modest Nature 
Sleep Powder 
Quiver Dance 
Bug Buzz 
Mega Drain/Solarbeam/Air Slash 

Venomoth 
Timid/Bold Nature 
Substitute 
Quiver Dance 
Bug Buzz 
Mega Drain/Roost 

Well overall, I think this is a good bug-type team. What does everyone else think of this team?  :Smile:

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## Lvl 2 Expert

There's nothing wrong with the team. There are six Kanto bug type lines, and you've got all six of them. The sets look competitive, yet give even the similar mons just slightly different roles. (I'll admit I actually googled to see if the whole list was integrally copied from some Smogon sample team or something. Good work.)

For the story though: what are their personalities? I think a Paras->Parasect could be a very interesting character if you wanted some drama and regrets in the story, with the trainer seeing the personality drain from their mon as the mushroom grows stronger and stronger. Pinsir/Scyther is a classic rivalry, as is Butterfree with Beedrill or Venomoth. Or did you have something wilder in mind to shake things up? Maybe Butterfree as the strong headed warrior with anger issues and Scyther as the peacekeeper?

Who are the main other human characters? Is there a rival? A gym leader or elite four member of significance? A parent or mentor? A love interest? Two love interests, one with a team weak to bug and one with a team strong to bug (ooh, bug-psychic-fighting is a half decent triangle), and they're all in highschool and the whole thing is worked into a manga?  :Small Big Grin:

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## Bartmanhomer

> There's nothing wrong with the team. There are six Kanto bug type lines, and you've got all six of them. The sets look competitive, yet give even the similar mons just slightly different roles. (I'll admit I actually googled to see if the whole list was integrally copied from some Smogon sample team or something. Good work.)
> 
> For the story though: what are their personalities? I think a Paras->Parasect could be a very interesting character if you wanted some drama and regrets in the story, with the trainer seeing the personality drain from their mon as the mushroom grows stronger and stronger. Pinsir/Scyther is a classic rivalry, as is Butterfree with Beedrill or Venomoth. Or did you have something wilder in mind to shake things up? Maybe Butterfree as the strong headed warrior with anger issues and Scyther as the peacekeeper?
> 
> Who are the main other human characters? Is there a rival? A gym leader or elite four member of significance? A parent or mentor? A love interest? Two love interests, one with a team weak to bug and one with a team strong to bug (ooh, bug-psychic-fighting is a half decent triangle), and they're all in highschool and the whole thing is worked into a manga?


It's still a work in progress and you're welcome.  :Biggrin:

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## Lvl 2 Expert

I just had a kinda cool thought.

i was thinking that gen 4 and 5 were really the generations were pokémon in terms of mechanics matured. In gen 3 there were still entire types that didn't really have good moves, there were very few held items, abilities were still kind of shaky, but by the time we get to gen 5 most of the moves that are atill important now are present, most of the abilities we're still looking for are present, most of the big held items have been introduced. Hidden abilities were in gen 5, the physical/special split came with gen 4. Modern pokémon is really starts with all of the innovations of gens 4 and 5. So if gen 5 is when pokémon was mature, then surely gen 6 and 7 are the franchise's wild student years, where it's experimenting with mega evolutions and Z-moves. That would make gen 8 and 9 Pokémon's late 20's, early 30's, trying to find their place in life. Still trying out new things, but trying to bring them towards some sort of stability, a status quo, a steady flow into the future. And if gen 4 and 5 are in fact pokémon's puberty then gen 3 must have been when the series was just prepubescent, spouting these weird ideas like Pokémon Ranger games, with gens 1 and 2 being its earlyish childhood.

Now gen 5 came out in 2010. That's 14 years after the start of generation 1 in 1996. But the growth of these ideas does not start in 1996, does it? The growth of the games started when development began. When would that have been, about 4 or 5 years before release? Let's call it 1992. That means that when Red and Green released Pokémon as a concept was about 4 years old, a toddler. And like a toddler it has all the important recognizable parts of its future fully grown self, but it can seem pretty stupid at times and sometimes it randomly falls on its face. Gold and Silver release when Pokémon is 7, and Ruby and Sapphire when it's 10. We see steady growth. We get through puberty with Diamond and Pearl releasing when the concept is 14 years old, and get Black and White when it's 18. As we found before, it's mature now. X and Y and Sun and Moon were 21 and 24 years old respectively, within the experimental student years range, and Sword and Shield and Scarlett and Violet arrived at 27 and 30.

The Pokémon franchise ages like a human.

So my prediction: the next installment will totally be married with a baby on the way. (Unless it's waiting until they have a house to raise the baby in, but with the money this franchise made it can probably get a decent mortgage deal somewhere.) Wait, is that actually what the TV series is doing, switching to new protagonists because the Ash-led series is having a baby so now everything will have to be about the baby all the time? Are we entering the "Instagram full of baby pictures" phase of the Pokémon franchise? I don't think this idea is kinda cool anymore, please help me unthink of it...

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## Bartmanhomer

> I just had a kinda cool though.
> 
> I was thinking that gen 4 and 5 were the generations where pokémon in terms of mechanics matured. In gen 3 there were still entire types that didn't have good moves, there were very few held items, and abilities were still kind of shaky, but by the time we get to gen 5 most of the moves that are still important now are present, most of the abilities we're still looking for are present, most of the big held items have been introduced. Hidden abilities were in gen 5, the physical/special split came with gen 4. Modern pokémon starts with all of the innovations of Gen 4 and 5. So if gen 5 is when pokémon was mature, then surely gen 6 and 7 are the franchise's wild student years, where it's experimenting with mega evolutions and Z-moves. That would make gen 8 and 9 Pokémon's late 20's, or early 30's, trying to find their place in life. Still trying out new things, but trying to bring them towards some sort of stability, a status quo, a steady flow into the future. And if gen 4 and 5 are pokémon's puberty then gen 3 must have been when the series was just prepubescent, spouting these weird ideas like Pokémon Ranger games, with Gen 1 and 2 being its early childhood.
> 
> Now gen 5 came out in 2010. That's 14 years after the start of generation 1 in 1996. But the growth of these ideas does not start in 1996, does it? The growth of the games started when development began. When would that have been, about 4 or 5 years before release? Let's call it 1992. That means that when Red and Green released Pokémon as a concept was about 4 years old, a toddler. And like a toddler it has all the important recognizable parts of its future fully grown self, but it can seem pretty stupid at times and sometimes it randomly falls on its face. Gold and Silver release when Pokémon is 7, and Ruby and Sapphire when it's 10. We see steady growth. We get through puberty with Diamond and Pearl releasing when the concept is 14 years old, and get Black and White when it's 18. As we found before, it's mature now. X and Y and Sun and Moon were 21 and 24 years old respectively, within the experimental student years range, and Sword and Shield and Scarlett and Violet arrived at 27 and 30.
> 
> The Pokémon franchise ages like a human.
> 
> So my prediction: the next installment will be married with a baby on the way. (Unless it's waiting until they have a house to raise the baby in, but with the money this franchise made it can probably get a decent mortgage deal somewhere.) Wait, is that actually what the TV series is doing, switching to new protagonists because the Ash-led series is having a baby so now everything will have to be about the baby all the time? Are we entering the "Instagram full of baby pictures" phase of the Pokémon franchise? I don't think this idea is kinda cool anymore, please help me unthink it...


That's a wonderful thought and that prediction didn't come to my mind, so there is no need to worry about that.

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## Fable Wright

> I'm thinking of writing another Pokemon Let's Go fanfiction story about a Mono Bug Type Pokemon trainer. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this Pokemon Bug Type Team:
> -snip-
> 
> Well overall, I think this is a good bug-type team. What does everyone else think of this team?


Having bred and raised a mono-bug team in Sun and Moon:

Do you have access to pokemon from any other region? Because this team is going to suffer painfully from rock and fire type moves. You've got double rock weakness from Butterfree, Beedrill, and Scyther; double fire weakness from Parasect; and no pokemon neutral to flying, fire, or rock. If you just had Johto pokemon, you could add Scizor, Shuckle, and Heracross, who respectively are neutral to fire/rock; neutral to fire/flying; and neutral to rock. 

Your Mega Pinsir: Does it get its ability on mega evolution of Aeriolate? If so, you really should give it Quick Attack and Return to act as a cleaner. You need hyperoffense to really take the lead when you can't switch anything in, and Mega Pinsir can deliver. Barring that, your other win condition (especially against slower teams) is probably Butterfree with its CompoundEyes and a focus sash. Given the lack of sleep clause, with it in the lead, it can Sleep Powder with high accuracy, Quiver Dance, and sweep from there. You probably want to give it Quiver Dance/Substitute/Sleep Powder/Air Slash overall to support that strategy. Definitely timid.

A fun trick with Pinsir, incidentally, is that Hypercutter can be used to ensure that if you're expecting an Intimidate switch-in, you can ignore the stat drop; and if you have Moxie, you can have Pinsir choose to not mega-evolve after being brought in by U-Turn from Scyther, pick up the Moxie boost, and then mega evolve with the stat boost.

This team is going to greatly suffer vs Stealth Rock. Given that your Venomoth probably has Tinted Lens, I'd definitely go with Roost; overall strategy is Mega Beedrill lead against a fast stealth rock setter to try and keep rocks off the field; Butterfree sleep spam in the lead against a slow setter; if Mega Beedrill's speed wasn't necessary to deal with a fast rocker, Mega Pinsir to wallbreak, and Venomoth as the anchor to come in late and quiver dance up to clean up a weakened team.

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## Bartmanhomer

> Having bred and raised a mono-bug team in Sun and Moon:
> 
> Do you have access to pokemon from any other region? Because this team is going to suffer painfully from rock and fire type moves. You've got double rock weakness from Butterfree, Beedrill, and Scyther; double fire weakness from Parasect; and no pokemon neutral to flying, fire, or rock. If you just had Johto pokemon, you could add Scizor, Shuckle, and Heracross, who respectively are neutral to fire/rock; neutral to fire/flying; and neutral to rock. 
> 
> Your Mega Pinsir: Does it get its ability on mega evolution of Aeriolate? If so, you really should give it Quick Attack and Return to act as a cleaner. You need hyperoffense to really take the lead when you can't switch anything in, and Mega Pinsir can deliver. Barring that, your other win condition (especially against slower teams) is probably Butterfree with its CompoundEyes and a focus sash. Given the lack of sleep clause, with it in the lead, it can Sleep Powder with high accuracy, Quiver Dance, and sweep from there. You probably want to give it Quiver Dance/Substitute/Sleep Powder/Air Slash overall to support that strategy. Definitely timid.
> 
> A fun trick with Pinsir, incidentally, is that Hypercutter can be used to ensure that if you're expecting an Intimidate switch-in, you can ignore the stat drop; and if you have Moxie, you can have Pinsir choose to not mega-evolve after being brought in by U-Turn from Scyther, pick up the Moxie boost, and then mega evolve with the stat boost.
> 
> This team is going to greatly suffer vs Stealth Rock. Given that your Venomoth probably has Tinted Lens, I'd definitely go with Roost; overall strategy is Mega Beedrill lead against a fast stealth rock setter to try and keep rocks off the field; Butterfree sleep spam in the lead against a slow setter; if Mega Beedrill's speed wasn't necessary to deal with a fast rocker, Mega Pinsir to wallbreak, and Venomoth as the anchor to come in late and quiver dance up to clean up a weakened team.


Wow. That's a lot of info right there.  :Eek:

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## Lvl 2 Expert

> Having bred and raised a mono-bug team in Sun and Moon:
> 
> Do you have access to pokemon from any other region? Because this team is going to suffer painfully from rock and fire type moves.


Plot twist: a mysterious huge object lands in the bay of Kanto, and from that point on Pokémon are capable of terastallization. This happens during the protagonist's battle with Brock, and Butterfree immediately turns into a ground type.

...And knows tera blast, somehow...

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## Bartmanhomer

Also, Lvl 2 Expert, if you want to know where I got the Big Type Pokemon moves and nature. I copied on this website at the Kanto Pokemon Tier List on Pokemon Let's Go. https://gachagames.net/featured/poke...pikachu-eevee/

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## Mark Hall

Well, I beat the main story in Arceus just before the Boy got Pokemon: Shield. The final fight in Arceus was so easy compared to the fights against Arcanine and Electrode. Even Avalugg was pretty easy compared to those.

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## Lvl 2 Expert

You know what? I'm starting my own villainous team. Team Hiker. We use ground and rock Pokémon, plus a few fighting types, mon that look like bats and anything that learns explosion. Our goal is to create more cave routes and mountain paths for hiking, even if we have to create new caves and mountains in locations currently occupied by towns and cities to do it. And the admins are always like "I spent my whole weekend on our team's bookkeeping, sometimes I wish I just had time to go hiking again."

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## TaiLiu

> Plot twist: a mysterious huge object lands in the bay of Kanto, and from that point on Pokémon are capable of terastallization. This happens during the protagonist's battle with Brock, and Butterfree immediately turns into a ground type.
> 
> ...And knows tera blast, somehow...


Butterfree learns Confusion, so maybe the ground typing will be enough for defense.

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## Bartmanhomer

> You know what? I'm starting my own villainous team. Team Hiker. We use ground and rock Pokémon, plus a few fighting types, mon that look like bats and anything that learns explosion. Our goal is to create more cave routes and mountain paths for hiking, even if we have to create new caves and mountains in locations currently occupied by towns and cities to do it. And the admins are always like "I spent my whole weekend on our team's bookkeeping, sometimes I wish I just had time to go hiking again."


Is Team Hikers good, neutral, or evil?

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## MCerberus

I'm starting to think that the TCG artists are obsessed with putting food in the rare/expensive "trainer gallery" cards. (these are reprints with hand-drawn "full" art across the entire card. They're catnip for collectors).

These are two different artists and it's the same upcoming set
*Spoiler*
Show




Other highlights from the past include a Mightyena at a bakery, Sylveon working at a bakery, and I guarantee the Scarlet/Violet cards are going to be sandwich obsessed.

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## Lvl 2 Expert

> Is Team Hikers good, neutral, or evil?


We're villains, evil evil bad bad. At the very least for the first 2/3 of the story. Our rivals are Team Swimmer and Team Bird Keeper, in the third version.

Wait, I'm just trying to reinvent gen 3, aren't I?

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## MCerberus

> We're villains, evil evil bad bad. At the very least for the first 2/3 of the story. Our rivals are Team Swimmer and Team Bird Keeper, in the third version.
> 
> Wait, I'm just trying to reinvent gen 3, aren't I?


At least it isn't the Pokemon Go civil war, where armies of ruthless and loyal trainers (and team Instinct) tear the world asunder in a final bid for power, and to find out just what exactly those candies are.

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## Emmerlaus

I wish they had given a proper name on some of the Pokemon variant of the latest game. Scream Tail is funny for exemple but it's not a real Pokemon name... I can only suppose that in the anime, they are going to have the same cry as a normal Pokemon for that specie, hence why they gave them surname.

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## TaiLiu

> I'm starting to think that the TCG artists are obsessed with putting food in the rare/expensive "trainer gallery" cards. (these are reprints with hand-drawn "full" art across the entire card. They're catnip for collectors).
> 
> These are two different artists and it's the same upcoming set
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other highlights from the past include a Mightyena at a bakery, Sylveon working at a bakery, and I guarantee the Scarlet/Violet cards are going to be sandwich obsessed.


Huh. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that anime/manga art of food is usually super pretty.

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## Lvl 2 Expert

Okay, one more silly pokémon thought. This one is a feature Game Freak should probably never implement.

So, in a few Pokémon games your character becomes the official champion of the region. In at least one generation you also get to defend your title from challengers. A future game should (read: absolutely shouldn't) let you pick your own elite four. You can pick from all trainers that gave you their phone number. This has two functions: 1 You can challenge them yourself, just for fun. 2 There's a challenger comming for your title every so often. But before they get to you the game first simulates them battling the elite four. So if you pick trainers specialized in say bug, poison, ice and flying types the grass type gym leader will never make it to your throne room. If you pick just really strong trainers in general you will get fewer challengers overall, and if you pick Youngster Joey and friends you get to fend off all of the challengers yourself.

Because that's what's wrong with the games, there's not enough league management simulation in them.  :Small Cool:

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## Bartmanhomer

Which Pokemon would win in a Pokemon Battle: Ditto or Wobbuffet?

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## Lvl 2 Expert

> Which Pokemon would win in a Pokemon Battle: Ditto or Wobbuffet?


In general pokémon have around 50% chance vs a Ditto copying them, and often a bit better due to Ditto's bad HP. But this particular fight is actually pretty interesting, because Wobbuffet has no moves to do damage with if the other mon is not attacking. Ditto gets less PP than the pokémon it copies though, so Ditto will be the first to unlock Struggle, which can deal damage. If the Wobbuffet user thought ahead they saved some of their Counter PP, giving them a handy 100% win chance over Ditto. (Counter does twice the damage your opponent did as long as they used a physical move.) Since Counter has 20 PP to begin with, before PP up, anything but spamming Counter constantly from the start gives them this opportunity.

Now these days there are more than 4 moves Wobbuffet can learn, which means you could reasonably encounter one that does not know counter. In that case it comes down to what the mechanics of Struggle are in this generation. If it's a "Struggle costs 1/4 of your total HP" generation (gen 4+) Ditto should still lose by self knockout, as Wobbuffet is a very defensive pokémon. In gen 2 and 3 though, where Struggle could technically work, Wobbuffet can still only learn 4 moves, bringing us back to the Counter victory.

So: Wobbuffet should always win this, except maybe maybe if this is gen 2 or 3 and Wobbuffet is controlled by the AI and it barely ever goes for counter, and even then you should probably overlevel your Ditto for a bit of extra safety.

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## Bartmanhomer

> In general pokémon have around 50% chance vs a Ditto copying them, and often a bit better due to Ditto's bad HP. But this particular fight is actually pretty interesting, because Wobbuffet has no moves to do damage with if the other mon is not attacking. Ditto gets less PP than the pokémon it copies though, so Ditto will be the first to unlock Struggle, which can deal damage. If the Wobbuffet user thought ahead they saved some of their Counter PP, giving them a handy 100% win chance over Ditto. (Counter does twice the damage your opponent did as long as they used a physical move.) Since Counter has 20 PP to begin with, before PP up, anything but spamming Counter constantly from the start gives them this opportunity.
> 
> Now these days there are more than 4 moves Wobbuffet can learn, which means you could reasonably encounter one that does not know counter. In that case it comes down to what the mechanics of Struggle are in this generation. If it's a "Struggle costs 1/4 of your total HP" generation (gen 4+) Ditto should still lose by self knockout, as Wobbuffet is a very defensive pokémon. In gen 2 and 3 though, where Struggle could technically work, Wobbuffet can still only learn 4 moves, bringing us back to the Counter victory.
> 
> So: Wobbuffet should always win this, except maybe maybe if this is gen 2 or 3 and Wobbuffet is controlled by the AI and it barely ever goes for counter, and even then you should probably overlevel your Ditto for a bit of extra safety.


That's Interesting.  :Smile:

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