# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games >  anyone using/used smaller miniatures?

## Myth27

So I was thinking that if the standard scale of dnd was smaller, for example if 5 feet were 0.4 inches (1 cm) you could have a set up that is much easier to carry around, much better to use on a small/crowded table, much easier to do large scale scenes and also possibly they could be cheaper.

Now there are smaller miniatures out there of course but the one intended for 5 feet=1 inch are standardized all to scale and easy to find, I'm not sure it would be easy to consistently find smaller scale fantasy miniatures. Anyone tried it ? Anyone thought about this? are the smaller miniature just to difficult to find? would they be to small to understand what's going on ?

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## hamishspence

The old Warmaster tabletop game for GW was to about 5 or 6 ft tall humanoid = 1 cm tall model. That said, the infantry and cavalry models were multiple models to a large base - I don't know to what degree it is possible it is to separate them out as 1 model to a smaller base.

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## Jophiel

15mm is well used in historical wargaming so you can find lots of Assyrian infantry and Greek chariots and Celtic slingers but it's a bit harder to find obscure fantasy critters or player races.  It's also harder to find unique singles (like "Thuggo the Barbarian") versus a set of six Polish Hussars or eight Elvish Archers.  Not impossible on all counts but less selection and more looking required.  I've bought some to use alongside my 28mm figures for small creatures but I haven't tried running a whole game that way. In part because it limits players to what minis they can use for their characters and in part because of the overall selection.  No mechanical reason it couldn't work though.  The ones I've painted still look distinct on the table although, unpainted, there's more of a "lump of metal" effect going on.

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## Pauly

Alternative Armies has a very nice selection of 15mm fantasy figures. 
Essex minis are very high quality and they have 15mm figures in their range but I havent see their fantasy figures irl. 
Grenadier had some very nice 15mm fantasy, and their sculpts got bought buy Mirliton after they went belly up.

The drawback being that small scales (15mm/10mm) tend to focus on armies rather than individuals. So it can be difficult to find specific critters. 15mm is a nice scale for detail and visibility. Any smaller is really army territory. Also 15mm manufacturers tend to focus on armies for HOTT rather than setting specific ranges.

On cost, individually 15mm is much cheaper, but you tend to buy a lot more of them than you would in 25mm/28mm. In the end cost ends up being similar, just that you have a lot more 15s.

As for painting, 15mm is much faster to paint. You can put as much detail into a 15mm figure as a 28mm figure. If you want to do fast and dirty drybrushing/washes you can paint the bulk of your 15s much much faster than 28mm. However fine detailing of  characters ends up being only a little bit faster. Well unless youre painting GWs overdetailed abominations, but any good 28mm is faster to paint than GW.

For games with individual basing I used small steel washers, because you need something with a bit of mass to stop the figure falling over. I know people who used pennies.

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## Easy e

I have seen some folks single base 6mm models for use in games, but I think 15mm is about as small as I would want to go for single based, individual models.  

Alternatively, I have also seen some lovely 54mm and larger work for the tabletop.

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## Imbalance

> Anyone tried it ? Anyone thought about this? are the smaller miniature just to difficult to find? would they be to small to understand what's going on ?


I haven't tried it yet, but I have specific purposes in mind, primarily vehicle scenes where, say, a ship at normal scale would take up most of my playing area, I would instead feature much smaller miniatures and the grid becomes 1 square = 25', or something.  Difficulty depends on what you're specifically looking for.  Wizkids just released several sets of ship scale miniatures in support of Spelljammer.  For my purposes, I already possess a usable collection of Pirates Pocketmodels that they made back in the day.  As for individual figures, what everyone else said above - you'll be shopping wargaming tinies, which aren't specifically licensed to be beholders or tiefling sorcerers, but who can tell?

The biggest setback I can see by going this route is that the smaller your minis; the easier they are to lose.  Someone sneezes too close to the table, and the dwarf takes flight, never to be seen again.

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## Easy e

I have found that the biggest issue is telling what is what at the small scales.  

I mean, here is a unit of 28mm Pikemen (Standard D&D figs are between 28-32 mm) vs a unit of 6mm Pikemen. 



You can see that at those small scales they all start to look the same, and look much better in a "mass".

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## Jay R

If I'm playing a game in which I control a single individual, I want the counter for that individual to be easy to see, easy to recognize, and easy to pick up and move without disturbing the other figures.  That's a hard limit for figure size.

Smaller figures are often used for mass battles.  But in many of those games, a stand of a few figures often represents dozens of people, because the basic unit in planning a battle is the organized military unit, not the individual.

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## Pauly

> If I'm playing a game in which I control a single individual, I want the counter for that individual to be easy to see, easy to recognize, and easy to pick up and move without disturbing the other figures.  That's a hard limit for figure size.
> .


15mm is the smallest scale Ive played with individually based figures. At that size its easy enough to identify individuals. Although it tends to be units of mostly identical figures with 2 or 3 unique individuals such as leaders or special weapons guys.

If each figure is meant to be a unique figure with unique equipment and stats then a larger scale is probably better.

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## Bohandas

> I have found that the biggest issue is telling what is what at the small scales.  
> 
> I mean, here is a unit of 28mm Pikemen (Standard D&D figs are between 28-32 mm) vs a unit of 6mm Pikemen. 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see that at those small scales they all start to look the same, and look much better in a "mass".


My instinct for this would be to dispense with miniatures entirely and replace them with colorful and stylized 2d images on some kind of standee. 

Going further you could use tokens, like just an image of a pike head against a highly contrasting background.

At even further extremes form could be dispensed with entirely and combatants could be represented by color-coded tokens

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## Lord Torath

> My instinct for this would be to dispense with miniatures entirely and replace them with colorful and stylized 2d images on some kind of standee.


Maybe something like this!

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## Jophiel

> I have found that the biggest issue is telling what is what at the small scales.  
> 
> I mean, here is a unit of 28mm Pikemen (Standard D&D figs are between 28-32 mm) vs a unit of 6mm Pikemen.


I wouldn't go as small as 6mm but, at 15mm, I think it's still easy enough to tell.  Here's some 15mm figures with some 28mm figures (note, they're all on 28mm bases)

*Spoiler: Spoiled for image size*
Show








A much less dramatic difference but you could still go to a smaller grid size if you were using 15mm on smaller bases.

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## Jay R

When a stand is a single figure (unlike most miniature battles), I think the practical limit is a figure that I can pick up and move with my fingers easily without disturbing two adjacent figures.  28 mm is pretty close to that.

People with smaller fingers than me, or higher dexterity, may be able to play easily with significantly smaller minis, but I'm not sure I could.

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## Pauly

> When a stand is a single figure (unlike most miniature battles), I think the practical limit is a figure that I can pick up and move with my fingers easily without disturbing two adjacent figures.  28 mm is pretty close to that.
> 
> People with smaller fingers than me, or higher dexterity, may be able to play easily with significantly smaller minis, but I'm not sure I could.


Smaller figures are OK as long as youre not in shoulder to shoulder formations. Games that use individually based 15mm figures are almost always skirmish level games with open formations.

As long as the base is smaller than the grid being used then 15mm shouldn't be a problem for picking up and moving. I only really see it as a potential problem if the base is small compared to figure height.

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## Jophiel

Of course, if you're using grid combat, it's a lot easier to find a standard 1" square battlemat than to find one with 3/4" squares to take advantage of the smaller miniatures.  You might need to wind up printing your own or using some other way to measure distances.

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## Jay R

> Smaller figures are OK as long as youre not in shoulder to shoulder formations. Games that use individually based 15mm figures are almost always skirmish level games with open formations.
> 
> As long as the base is smaller than the grid being used then 15mm shouldn't be a problem for picking up and moving. I only really see it as a potential problem if the base is small compared to figure height.


If my character is flanked by two others, and the figure is significantly narrower than my fingers, it would be awkward (at least) to pick it up without disturbing the other two.

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## Anonymouswizard

Wow, it's been years since I've heard of Hordes of the Things. I think when I was like 8 I had some Egyptian spearmen for it. I remember that Egyptians came with spears but for Greek phalanxes you had to make them yourself.

I like 15mm, I moved to them about a year before I stopped painting. But yes, unless you're going for contrasting colour schemes it can be harder to tell them apart on the table. That's a solvable issue though, either get particularly distinct minis or plan your colours carefully. I was mainly using them in Chain Reaction, so we just needed two colour schemes, but I think 4-6 schemes plus one or two for enemies is certainly possible (this can also mitigate the 'few unique characters' issue).

Of course if you're using a standard D&D battlemat they'll just not be to scale, but you can get or make terrain and maps at the right scale.

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## Pauly

> If my character is flanked by two others, and the figure is significantly narrower than my fingers, it would be awkward (at least) to pick it up without disturbing the other two.


I never had a problem with being flanked by 2. It only became an issue if flanked by 3 or 4.
Tilt the figure to one side with your index finger then use your thumb as a pincer to pick it up.

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## snowblizz

I was thinking I had seen such things s generic fantasy 15mm miniatures and as luck would have it my monthly wargmaign rag has a advert from a year ago (yes I'm behind in ym reading).

"Splintered Light Miniatures" is something to look for in the USA. The ad features what I think is a minotaur and treeman in 15mm.

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## Firest Kathon

We are playing with an (i think) 1cm grid, the minis are a little smaller than that. However we don't use minifigures, just wooden blocks (1 unit square, 1 units high, so something like 8x8x16mm). Enemies are colored/numbered, PC tokens have symbols. It's more towards theatre of the mind for the actual scene, but allowing for the exact position expected by the rules (Pathfinder 1, in this case).

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## Anonymouswizard

> We are playing with an (i think) 1cm grid, the minis are a little smaller than that. However we don't use minifigures, just wooden blocks (1 unit square, 1 units high, so something like 8x8x16mm). Enemies are colored/numbered, PC tokens have symbols. It's more towards theatre of the mind for the actual scene, but allowing for the exact position expected by the rules (Pathfinder 1, in this case).


I've considered raiding Carcassonne to use meeples as mooks, have used dice (always something easily identifiable as not used for rolling, fudge dice outside of Fudge and Fate), have of course used card figures and tokens, and even just scribbled positions on a rough sketch in one game. Although in a D&D style fantasy I'll likely just pull out HeroQuest, it has a good variety.

I find that some kind of token is useful even when you've dropped exact positioning, to give a quick reference as to who's in what zone. Unless the point of the game is tactical combat, which is unlikely for this OPP fangirl, precise positioning ends up being more trouble than it's worth. Rough positioning though is incredibly useful, if only for 'you're currently in the Rafters zone, how are you planning to set fire to the boxes in Warehouse Floor A?' At which point keeping important people distinct becomes relatively important, but there's solutions other than minis.

My girlfriend was actually surprised that I don't have a large miniatures collection. There's reasons behind me getting rid of my old stuff, but a lot of not having it is 'I don't need it'. I'm building one up again, but it's mostly for the painting.

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## Jay R

One crucial aspect that doesn't apply to everyone:

I started playing in 1975, and have minis that date back to 1980.  Playing any scale other than 28 mm means replacing over 40 years worth of minis.

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