# Forum > Discussion > Media Discussions >  Thinking about my mortality

## Mortium

Some things have me wondering if I will see them end before my life does.

For the longest time, I wondered if I would see the conclusion to Erfworld. Well, I did, but not in the way I hoped!
OotS has been running for the entire duration of my migration to Australia. 17 years!

It feels like the conclusion to the 17 years of story should be coming to an end at some point. I'm actually wondering which I will see the end of OotS before I see the 3rd book of the Kingkiller Chronicles, or whether my natural lifespan will expire first.

It made me wonder.....

What were you eagerly anticipating seeing the end of, but you outlived the original creator?

PS: I realise this may come off as being annoyed at the pacing of releases. I used to be a serial refresher but now just check in monthly for my fix and I'm happy with that :)

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## Coeruleum

I don't think popular comic strips end for any reason not related to copyright, honestly. Even Calvin and Hobbes had more of a hiatus than anything and the original creator came back, and Garfield, which is the epitome of commercialism, has all sorts of "fair use" satires made of it. Ideas never die unless they weren't very good ideas, and some not very good ideas still refuse to die.

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## Mortium

After I posted this, I realise it might be in the wrong forum. Apologies to any moderators and if you feel like moving to another forum I totally get it!

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## Sir_Norbert

> I don't think popular comic strips end for any reason not related to copyright, honestly. Even Calvin and Hobbes had more of a hiatus than anything and the original creator came back, and Garfield, which is the epitome of commercialism, has all sorts of "fair use" satires made of it. Ideas never die unless they weren't very good ideas, and some not very good ideas still refuse to die.


_Calvin and Hobbes_ ended in 1995. Even if new material gets produced, that is the point at which the main series was finished and the creator decided to wrap things up. (Admittedly, C&H is not the best example since it doesn't have an overarching storyline.) Similarly, _Deathly Hallows_ is the end of the Harry Potter saga even if the author decides to release more material in the same universe. Satires of _Garfield_ are not part of the work itself. I'm not that familiar with western comic strips, but I can think easily of manga and webcomics that have a definite ending.

Getting back to the original question. I don't think I've ever been in the position of following a series that ended due to the death of the creator. I was sad to see _Keychain of Creation_ end prematurely, and like many others, I've lost hope that we will ever see the author's planned ending to _A Song of Ice and Fire_.

I never read _The Wheel of Time_, but one of my high school friends was really into it, so I knew a bit about how long the series had been running for. I distinctly remember one occasion when I was browsing a bookshop, looked up at the WoT books, and wondered whether it would ever reach its end. What made this incident stick in my memory so well? The news of the creator's death dropped _the very next day_.

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## Peelee

> I don't think popular comic strips end for any reason not related to copyright, honestly.


Brian Clevinger would disagree with you.

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## Fyraltari

Unlike Garfield, this strip has a plot, one with a planned endpoint. And unlike _ A Song of Ice and Fire_, we are seeing the progress made towards that end point in real-time. >e are in the last book already.

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## KillianHawkeye

Robert Jordan at least had a detailed plan and a named successor to finish _The Wheel of Time_ for him. Which reminds me, I need to go back and finish reading that series...

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## Rynjin

RIP Kentaro Miura. His assistants are looking to finish Berserk base don his plans, but it'll never be exactly the same.

I hope the master doesn't follow the student; Hajime no Ippo is one of my favorite manga, and the author (George Morikawa) is even older than his protégé. I think Miura's death was a wake-up call for him though, because it feels like the plot has sped up considerably in the chapters since his death.

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## GloatingSwine

Yeah, Berserk was the big one for me. The other favourite authors who died with lots left to say (Iain M Banks and Terry Pratchett) didn't work on single long stories.

The post-Miura chapters aren't going to be quite the same.

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## Mortium

Glad you mentioned Terry Pratchett. One of my all time biggest regrets was selling my huge Clarecraft collection as I had to move to Australia and didn't want to risk the potential damage. Thinking back, its a risk I should have taken.

You'll always be remembered, Death on Binky :(

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## KorvinStarmast

> Some things have me wondering if I will see them end before my life does.


 ASoIaF likely will die with George. 



> What were you eagerly anticipating seeing the end of


 Wheel of Time. (I know that Sanderson did what he did, and maybe some day I'll read the rest) but Jordan's death killed my last bit of interest in getting back to that series.  (The TV show has rekindled some of that interest).  


> _Calvin and Hobbes_ ended in 1995.


 _Bloom County_ ended before that, much to my chagrin.  :Small Frown:

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## Talakeal

> Even Calvin and Hobbes had more of a hiatus than anything and the original creator came back...


This is a typo, right? Calvin and Hobbes didn't actually come back and I somehow missed it?

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## GloatingSwine

No, Calvin and Hobbes did not come back.

Bill Watterson briefly came out of retirement to do a collaboration on another strip, Pearls Before Swine.

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## Morgaln

> ASoIaF likely will die with George.


I firmly believe that GRRM has no intention at all to ever finish ASoIaF. Not out of lazyness or malice or anything, the series just doesn't get his creativity flowing and thus he can't do it. I'm pretty sure he also outright stated that he doesn't want anyone else to finish it after his death.
The show probably was his way to get an ending out there without writing it and without admitting to this.




> Yeah, Berserk was the big one for me. The other favourite authors who died with lots left to say (Iain M Banks and Terry Pratchett) didn't work on single long stories.
> 
> The post-Miura chapters aren't going to be quite the same.


I sorely miss Discworld's unique lens on the real world through thinly-veiled parallels. I always wonder what Pterry would have made of the events of the last few years and how it would have shaped Discworld.

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## Wintermoot

> I firmly believe that GRRM has no intention at all to ever finish ASoIaF. Not out of lazyness or malice or anything, the series just doesn't get his creativity flowing and thus he can't do it. I'm pretty sure he also outright stated that he doesn't want anyone else to finish it after his death.
> The show probably was his way to get an ending out there without writing it and without admitting to this.


Regardless of his personal feelings on the matter, there's too much money at stake for his estate. So someone will greedily get someone to churn out the final two novels, aping his style and prose. Hopefully, half following any notes he left and half making changes based on feedback from the end of the series. The result will be range from ignored to deeply unsatisfying for everyone involved. However, I'm on the personal belief that even if GRRM himself wrote and finished the last two novels himself, the result would've ended up deeply unsatisfying, so its not a big spectrum loss to me. 

I agree with you, however, that he's lost the desire to finish it and he doesn't have the force of will to make himself do so when he can actually enjoy his remaining years working on things he WANTS to work on instead. And I don't blame him that.

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## InvisibleBison

> Regardless of his personal feelings on the matter, there's too much money at stake for his estate.


That depends entirely on who ends up in control of his estate, surely. The series will only continue after Martin's death if it ends up in the hands of someone who cares more about making money than respecting Martin's desires, and I can only assume Martin will do his best to prevent that from happening.

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## Wintermoot

> That depends entirely on who ends up in control of his estate, surely. The series will only continue after Martin's death if it ends up in the hands of someone who cares more about making money than respecting Martin's desires, and I can only assume Martin will do his best to prevent that from happening.


It's a nice sentiment and optimistic belief, but I would argue that history has disproven it over and over again.

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## Fyraltari

I don't know, there probably was quite yhe amoubt of money to be made by contuining _Discworld_, afyer Sir Terry's death, but the hard-drive containing his notes for the novels he was working on was destroyed per his wishes.

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## InvisibleBison

> It's a nice sentiment and optimistic belief, but I would argue that history has disproven it over and over again.


History contains plenty of examples of people abandoning their principles for money, but it also contains plenty of examples of people sticking to their principles despite significant financial rewards to do otherwise. I think it's excessively cynical to assume it's impossible for a popular but unfinished franchise to die with its author.

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## ecarden

> It's a nice sentiment and optimistic belief, but I would argue that history has disproven it over and over again.


I think we've probably got a sampling bias. Stories which continue after the death of the author...continue and we hear about them. Ones which don't, just tend to disappear the way most old fiction does.

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## Wintermoot

> I think we've probably got a sampling bias. Stories which continue after the death of the author...continue and we hear about them. Ones which don't, just tend to disappear the way most old fiction does.


If you want to remove sampling bias, you have to do it both ways. There's a difference between an old series that sold 10,000 books and a mega-series like Song of Ice and Fire. You only have a handful of apples-to-apples comparisons on the same financial scale as this series. I can't really think of one that didn't plod on after the death of the principle. (WOT, dune, LOTR) As much as I adore and love Terry Prachett, it's not remotely similar in financial scale or type of series. 

Regardless, I admit to being overly cynical. I spelled that out in my own post. So replies to tell me that I'm overly cynical when I have already admitted to it seem... well whatever. Let's hope I'm wrong and you are right. Time will tell.

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## InvisibleBison

> I can't really think of one that didn't plod on after the death of the principle. (WOT, dune, LOTR) As much as I adore and love Terry Prachett, it's not remotely similar in financial scale or type of series.


I don't think this is correct. WOT, ASOIAF and Diskworld have all sold around 90 - 100 million copies. A continuation of Discworld would have been hugely profitable.

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## Fyraltari

> LOTR


Ain't nobody publishing any new Middle-Earth books, my dude. In fact the Tolkien Estate is well-known for its habit of fighting to stop new projects when it's usually the reverse.

An example from the comic-boon industry, there'd be literal millions in making a new _Tintin_ book, but the Hergé Estate is never going to make that happen.

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## Peelee

> Ain't nobody publishing any new Middle-Earth books, my dude.


Books, no. At least, not yet.

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## Wintermoot

> Ain't nobody publishing any new Middle-Earth books, my dude.


Funny I feel like I'm seeing "by jrr tolkein, edited by christopher tolkein" books popping up every year in Barnes and Noble. Must just be my imagination. My Dude.

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## Sir_Norbert

Presumably LOTR and _Tintin_ will eventually fall into the public domain and other people will write books in those universes, just like there are many Sherlock Holmes novels written after Conan Doyle's death. (Indeed, my own first novel was a Sherlock Holmes....)

The difference is that these works are not part of the official canon. LOTR is a complete story and that's that. _Tintin_ ended prematurely while the creator was partway through an album, but it wouldn't have been a grand finale anyway -- it was just never the type of series to have an overarching storyline and a definite ending.

_The Wheel of Time_ is a special case because the author wanted the series to be finished and, towards the end, knew that he wouldn't live long enough to do it. To my mind, that makes the continuation part of the canon, but as I said, I haven't read these books so I don't have a huge stake in this.

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## Wintermoot

> Presumably LOTR and _Tintin_ will eventually fall into the public domain and other people will write books in those universes, just like there are many Sherlock Holmes novels written after Conan Doyle's death..


I know I'm sitting on my Samwise Gamgee and Captain Haddock vs Moriarty epic trilogy waiting for the day. Granted its the holographic Moriarty from TNG, but it still works.

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## Fyraltari

> Funny I feel like I'm seeing "by jrr tolkein, edited by christopher tolkein" books popping up every year in Barnes and Noble. Must just be my imagination. My Dude.


Okay, "writing" would have been a better wording. But that's not comparable to the _Dune_ prequels or another writer attempting to finish the story. Christopher Tolkien wasn't coming up with new stuff.

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## ecarden

I mean, we can try to quantify this. The most popular book series of all time, according to this random google search result (https://stacker.com/art-culture/best...eries-all-time) are:

1) Harry Potter (author still alive). 
2) Goosebumps (author still alive).
3) Perry Mason (appears there were two posthumous publications, but author is still listed, presumably completed or essentially completed works published posthumously--no subsequent publications, a bajillion adaptations)
4) Berenstein Bears (franchise continued after death of original authors, though son who took over had been working in the franchise for more than a decade before then)
5) Choose your own adventure (no single author)
6) Sweet Valley High (giant team of ghost writers-concluded)
7) Robert Langdon (author still alive)
8) Diary of a Wimpy Kid (author still alive)
9) Noddy (lots of adaptations, but no additional books until 60 years after authors death, when granddaughter wrote one additional book)
10) The Railway Series (after death of original author, son continued the series, son still alive)

Stopping there because this is less useful than I'd hoped as these aren't really unfinished series and most are essentially franchises...does anyone have a list of unfinished series we could examine?

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## Bohandas

> I don't think popular comic strips end for any reason not related to copyright, honestly. Even Calvin and Hobbes had more of a hiatus than anything and the original creator came back


Are you sure you're not thinking of _Bloom County_?

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## Fyraltari

> Stopping there because this is less useful than I'd hoped as these aren't really unfinished series and most are essentially franchises...does anyone have a list of unfinished series we could examine?


Also this is only useful of we know whether or not the original author had expressed a desire for the serie to either end with them or keep going on.

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## Peelee

> Okay, "writing" would have been a better wording.


You're also assuming nobody is doing a novelization of _Rings of Power_. I don't think series usually get that, but it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

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## Keltest

> You're also assuming nobody is doing a novelization of _Rings of Power_. I don't think series usually get that, but it's definitely in the realm of possibility.


As in not literally impossible, sure. It would be enormously against the Tolkien Estate's past behavior to allow that. Theyve always been very particular about what they allow other people to work with.

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## Peelee

> As in not literally impossible, sure. It would be enormously against the Tolkien Estate's past behavior to allow that. Theyve always been very particular about what they allow other people to work with.


Imean the show has already been made. A novelization is just taking that same work which was already not written by Tolkien and adapting it into a different medium. It's not outlandish, and given that Amazon already got the rights to make the show, I'd imagine that novelizing a series rather than a movie would be a bigger impediment than objections from the Tolkien estate. Though I don't know what the negotiations consisted of.

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## warty goblin

> You're also assuming nobody is doing a novelization of _Rings of Power_. I don't think series usually get that, but it's definitely in the realm of possibility.


Now that's a legitimately awful idea, and I mostly liked that show ok. I mean it's basically C+/B- tier fan fiction, but rendered enjoyable (enough) by the mountain of money spent on making it look good. But turned into prose, particularly by the sort of mid-tier author who usually does tie-ins, it just sounds wretched beyond belief.

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## Fyraltari

> You're also assuming nobody is doing a novelization of _Rings of Power_. I don't think series usually get that, but it's definitely in the realm of possibility.


why do you hurt me so?

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## Wintermoot

> Imean the show has already been made. A novelization is just taking that same work which was already not written by Tolkien and adapting it into a different medium. It's not outlandish, and given that Amazon already got the rights to make the show, I'd imagine that novelizing a series rather than a movie would be a bigger impediment than objections from the Tolkien estate. Though I don't know what the negotiations consisted of.


I mean, ultimately, this discussion is around monetizing a property/continuing a series through creating new product, so the Rings of Power series is already disproving the idea that the Tolkein estate isn't willing and able to do so. Whether its a tv show or a new series of books or Christopher taking a novella written by his dad, going back to the supposed notes and "expanding it into a full length novel" It's all the same to me and you have to split those hairs pretty narrowly otherwise. Holding up the Tolkien estate, which just accepted a billion bezos bucks in what amounts to a "do whatever you want" deal as a model of moral guardianship is a non-starter. 

C.S. Lewis might be a better example to counter my points. I'd say they are verging on comparable to LOTR and I can't think of anyone writing new Narnia stories, making Narnia movies or series that are NOT direct versions of the original novels, or... i don't know... taking the chapter about Eustace turning into a dragon and expanding it into a full on novel with new content based on "the notes and such" 

But maybe there's a full on culture of Narnia expansions I'm not aware of. Hip underground movies of five mod teenagers who say a magic word, combine their powers into a giant aslan robot who fights evil.

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## Sapphire Guard

Christopher Tolkien was very protective of his father's works, then he died, and boom, adaptation. Terry had his drive destroyed because he knew it was the only way to be sure it stayed out of the wrong hands. It's not that people are inherently unethical, but the more time passes, the more likely it is that someone who will go for the quick cash grab will get the rights

Disney will move mountains to keep Mickey Mouse to themselves, though, copyright law be damned.

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