# Forum > Gaming > Homebrew Design >  Homebrew: Primal Path of the Slayer

## Beezus

I find the setting of Warhammer fascinating, as a writer and a roleplayer. It seems like everyone and everything in the Old World sucks, and that poses an existential challenge to any adventurer who aspires to moral virtue. It is easy to be brave and heroic in a world that encourages hope and valor. Bravery and heroism become more difficult, and therefore more impressive, in a world that passively discourages them, or indeed that promises to kill you for your efforts. I think Dwarfs, easily the race most concerned with honor and glory, have answered this problem of heroism with the Slayers. The Slayers are a distilled incarnation of the understanding that life is unpleasant, and the best one can hope for is to die in a way worth remembering.
I think this attitude could make a fine addition to Dungeons and Dragons, whose settings tend toward a tacit approval of good-natured adventure. To this end, I have attempted to recreate the concept of the Slayer as a 5e Barbarian subclass. I hope for honest and constructive criticism, with attention given to a) how it conveys what a Slayer is in D&D mechanics; b) how balanced it seems, compared to other mechanics of similar power level; and c) whether it looks like fun.
Thanks in advance!

*Spoiler: Slayer Subclass*
Show

*Path of the Slayer*
Dwarves who have been disgraced, crossed in love, or otherwise humiliated abandon traditional society and seek the sweet release of death. They hunt the most dangerous of monsters in the hopes of finding a glorious end.

Restriction: Dwarves Only
Only dwarves can follow the Path of the Slayer. The cult of the Slayers is esoteric and strange, the oaths they take incomprehensible to any without the dwarves' obsession with honor.
	Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. The restriction exists for the Old World of Warhammer. It might not apply to your DM's setting or your DM's version of the Old World.

Lost Proficiencies
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you lose proficiency with medium armor and shields.

Fighting Style
When you choose this path at 3rd level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.
_Great Weapon Fighting._ When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
_Two-Weapon Fighting._ When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Slayer's Quarry
You have sworn to destroy an enemy of your race...or die trying.
	At 3rd level, you choose a type of creature: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead. Alternatively, you can select two races of humanoid (such as gnolls and orcs) as your quarry.
	You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your Slayer's Quarry, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
	You choose one additional type of quarry at 10th and 14th level. As you gain levels, your choices should push you toward ever greater opponentsadversaries who may grant you the end you seek, or whose own defeat might be worthy of a song.

Stout-hearted
The quest for glorious death is all that sustains you now, and nothing will stand in the way of your destiny.
	Starting at 6th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed, and you cannot be charmed, frightened, or possessed by your Slayer's Quarry.

Grudgelord
When you meet a foe you have vowed to kill, only one of you will walk away alive.
	Starting at 10th level, while you're raging, hostile creatures within 30 ft of you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you.
	While you are within 30 ft of your Slayer's Quarry, you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than your quarry, and you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw in order to move more than 30 ft away from your quarry. While you're raging, any of your Slayer's Quarry must make the same save to move more than 30 ft away from you. The DC for this saving throw is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier.

Mighty Blow
You have become an avatar of doom, and those foolish enough to stray into your path do not often live long enough to regret their mistake.
	Starting at 14th level, any melee attack roll you make while raging is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20, and your Rage Damage bonus is doubled against your Slayer's Quarry.

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## Kane0

Before anything else, we have a Homebrew forum so this should probably be moved there. You can just ask a mod to do that for you.

Level 3:
- Losing proficiencies is basically not a done thing in 5e. Virtually everything is geared towards forward progression, this would mean you have two levels where you are more capable then suddenly lose that capability
- Fighting style is fine. Barbarians don't get one so its useful, but it isn't really impressive
- Favored enemy by another name, and Favored Enemy has a reputation as a mediocre-to-poor feature. You at least expand on this at later levels so that's something, but it's still a hit-or-miss sort of thing that doesn't help you _slay_ these creatures until level 14.

At this stage, there is basically no real reason to want to pick this subclass at level 3. There isn't anything here with bite, not even compared to the maligned Berserker or Battlerager (which is coincidentally also Dwarf-only).

Stout-Hearted is a good feature, giving you much needed assistance avoiding things that commonly shut down barbarian and importantly isn't reliant on Rage.

The first part of Grudgelord is a solid soft-control, but the second part is also a self-nerf. You're mechanically forcing the player to make what sounds like an RP decision, i'd recommend dropping the save for the Barbarian and just having your Slayer Prey save or not being able to move more than 30 feet away, like a poor-mans Conquest Paladin.

Mighty Blow could just be applied to everything while raging and not purely against your Prey, else this recreates the Foe Slayer problem (though thankfully to a lesser degree).

Overall, the concept sounds solid and there is some potential here but it needs a bit of polish to fit in against other options (both other Barb subclasses and other things like MCing into Ranger).

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## Peelee

*The Mod on the Silver Mountain:* Moved to Homebrew.

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## MrStabby

> *Path of the Slayer*
> Dwarves who have been disgraced, crossed in love, or otherwise humiliated abandon traditional society and seek the sweet release of death. They hunt the most dangerous of monsters in the hopes of finding a glorious end.
> 
> Restriction: Dwarves Only
> Only dwarves can follow the Path of the Slayer. The cult of the Slayers is esoteric and strange, the oaths they take incomprehensible to any without the dwarves' obsession with honor.
>     Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. The restriction exists for the Old World of Warhammer. It might not apply to your DM's setting or your DM's version of the Old World.


It makes sense given the background, however I personally like the idea of an ethos being able to be embraced by any race so my personal preference is the broader one.




> Lost Proficiencies
> Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you lose proficiency with medium armor and shields.


Ew.  Losing proficiency is a bit weird.  You could just go down the monk route of adding "whist not wearing medium or heavy armour and whilst not wearing a shield..." to abilities to soft enforce this, or more appropriately barbarian.  Also, losing proficiency would let you do something like dip a level of another class to get it back, which migh be unintended.






> Fighting Style
> When you choose this path at 3rd level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.
> _Great Weapon Fighting._ When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
> _Two-Weapon Fighting._ When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.


Generally not great fighting styles, so not a powerful ability - but its thematic and not alone...





> Slayer's Quarry
> You have sworn to destroy an enemy of your race...or die trying.
>     At 3rd level, you choose a type of creature: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead. Alternatively, you can select two races of humanoid (such as gnolls and orcs) as your quarry.
>     You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your Slayer's Quarry, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
>     You choose one additional type of quarry at 10th and 14th level. As you gain levels, your choices should push you toward ever greater opponentsadversaries who may grant you the end you seek, or whose own defeat might be worthy of a song.


So I see why this is this way, but if the PHB ranger has taught us anything its that people tend to not like the enemy dependant abilities.  Having broader classes of enemy might be better - bonuses against large or larger enemies, or spellcasters etc..  Honestly, I feel level 3 could use a bit of extra support.

Now I don't have a problem with this being different, but I think all Barbarian subclasses have a "whilst raging" ability that gives an extra imact to their rage.






> Stout-hearted
> The quest for glorious death is all that sustains you now, and nothing will stand in the way of your destiny.
>     Starting at 6th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed, and you cannot be charmed, frightened, or possessed by your Slayer's Quarry.


The situational thing comes back again...  Its thematic, again.  It kind of works as it isn't tied to rage but seems less significant than the frenzy barbarian whilst also being less flexible.  Still level 6 barbarian abilities are not always the best.





> Grudgelord
> When you meet a foe you have vowed to kill, only one of you will walk away alive.
>     Starting at 10th level, while you're raging, hostile creatures within 30 ft of you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you.
>     While you are within 30 ft of your Slayer's Quarry, you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than your quarry, and you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw in order to move more than 30 ft away from your quarry. While you're raging, any of your Slayer's Quarry must make the same save to move more than 30 ft away from you. The DC for this saving throw is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier.


So a nice tanking ability... but on a barbarian subclass that gets no benefits to resiliance in the subclass.  It seems to overlap too much with the ancestral guardian abilities as well - kind of trampling all over them.




> Mighty Blow
> You have become an avatar of doom, and those foolish enough to stray into your path do not often live long enough to regret their mistake.
>     Starting at 14th level, any melee attack roll you make while raging is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20, and your Rage Damage bonus is doubled against your Slayer's Quarry.


Yes... its OK.  It feels like more damage is a bit bland, especially this late on in the game.  On the other hand it is quite a _lot_ of extra damage.




I wonder if you could do something like move some of the capstone to 3rd level?  Something like "when you enter a rage you may swear an oath of destruction against one creaure you see.  Whilst raging an unmodified roll of a 19 or 20 is a critical hit.  At level 10 this increases to 18, 19 or 20.  Something to help you chew through the big HP of empting enemies and that would really encourage you to reckless attack?

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## Leon

Echo on the losing prof ~ just word it to be that if you use the restricted items you lose access to X class features while doing so, a bit silly but needed incase its played by someone who isn't a actual fan of Slayers and knows that they get about unarmored other wise looks a fairly good rendition of the idea

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## Beezus

Okay, the consensus seems to be that Slayer's Quarry is a bad idea, but without it, the Slayer has no utility outside of combat. Maybe he shouldn't be a Ranger wannabe, but I feel like the Slayer should be able to hear rumors of a deadly monster and immediately go after it.



> So a nice tanking ability... but on a barbarian subclass that gets no benefits to resiliance in the subclass.  It seems to overlap too much with the ancestral guardian abilities as well - kind of trampling all over them.
> ...
> I wonder if you could do something like move some of the capstone to 3rd level?  Something like "when you enter a rage you may swear an oath of destruction against one creaure you see.  Whilst raging an unmodified roll of a 19 or 20 is a critical hit.  At level 10 this increases to 18, 19 or 20.  Something to help you chew through the big HP of empting enemies and that would really encourage you to reckless attack?


I thought that giving the Slayer a taunt without actually making him tankier might contribute to his role as the guy with a death wish; I hadn't considered how it bit off the Ancestral Guardian.
Would doubling Rage Bonus at level 3 be too strong?
What about giving access to _both_ Fighting Styles, but adding to them a prohibition of medium armor/shields?

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## Kane0

> Okay, the consensus seems to be that Slayer's Quarry is a bad idea, but without it, the Slayer has no utility outside of combat. Maybe he shouldn't be a Ranger wannabe, but I feel like the Slayer should be able to hear rumors of a deadly monster and immediately go after it.


You could just make the creature types flexible, picking a new set at the end of each long rest plus swap one at the end of a short rest, or burning a use of your rage to pick an individual to count as a quarry as a bonus action for 24 hours or something.
Just remove the bonus languages and throw in a tool proficiency or something instead (that doesn't change)




> I thought that giving the Slayer a taunt without actually making him tankier might contribute to his role as the guy with a death wish; I hadn't considered how it bit off the Ancestral Guardian.


Grudgelord:
Starting at 10th level, while you're raging, hostile creatures within 30 ft of you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and any Quarry within this range must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + Prof + Con) in order to move out of it.




> Would doubling Rage Bonus at level 3 be too strong?


Nah, compare with the Zealot.




> What about giving access to _both_ Fighting Styles, but adding to them a prohibition of medium armor/shields?


You can't use them both at the same time, but yeah sure. If you couple this with double rage bonus to damage there is now a reason to pick Slayer.
You could change the prohibition to be against metal armor kinda like druids? What is it about medium armor and shields that are so bad you want to avoid?

Which leaves you needing a new ability at 14.

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## Beezus

> You could change the prohibition to be against metal armor kinda like druids? What is it about medium armor and shields that are so bad you want to avoid?


Slayers are trying to die. They charge into battle bare-chested, with an axe in each hand or a double-bladed greataxe in both, hoping that a sufficiently valiant death will absolve them of their disgrace. Honestly, it's not unlike the druids' own prohibition, which has always struck me as weird among 5e rules.
From the _Career Compendium_ for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, 2nd edition:*Spoiler: A Troll Slayer's Leather Jerkin*
Show

When slayers form regiments in dwarf armies, they are famed for fighting bare-chested, showing their brethren that they will meet their doom with gusto. So it can strike some people as remarkable that Slayers are found wearing leather jerkins. Surely they wouldnt seek to protect themselves?
The fact is that leather jerkins are considered a practical comfort, rather than serious protection (dwarfs consider nothing less than a heavy mail coat to be serious protection). Only hard-wearing gear will survive the wilderness wandering a slayer undertakes. The famous bared chest is something of an affectation of the battlefield.
So it is not uncommon to see a troll slayer wearing a leather jerkin, and no hypocrisy or cowardice should be inferred by the fact. Many slayers arrive to fight, shed their travelling gear (jerkin and all) and charge in to face their doom with torso bared.

As for what else to put at 14th level (or elsewhere), I have a few ideas:
If you have no more than half of your hit points left, you have resistance to acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, radiant, and thunder damage. (I might want some tankiness after all; while raging, this gives you resistance to all damage.)Whenever you take the Attack action while raging, you can attack three times, rather than twice, if you are outnumbered or fighting an opponent larger than you, or four times if you are both. ("I have you surrounded...from the inside!")You gain proficiency with a tool of your choice. (Slayers often work odd jobs in between monster fights.)When you attempt to tattoo or adorn yourself, you are considered proficient with jeweler's tools and painter's tools. (Slayers are easy to spot.)You may add half your proficiency bonus (rounded up) to any Constitution check you make to drink or resist the effects of alcohol. (Warhammer challenges you, character and player, to keep your sense of humor.)When you have 0 hit points, you can choose to die, rather than make death saves. When you die, all of your allies that can see or hear you gain advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws until the end of their next turn. They automatically succeed on any ability checks to recall how you died, or to recount the tale to others.
If I were to throw out Slayer's Quarry entirely, I could double the Rage Damage against Large or larger creatures at 3rd level, triple it against Huge or larger creatures at 6th level, and quadruple it against Gargantuan creatures at 14th level.

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## Kane0

Barbarians also have something that already covers the bare-chested thing, their unarmored defense. If you want Slayers to go down that path I'd advocate an incentive rather than a restriction. Let them use Str + Con + Dex or add Prof bonus when not using a shield, so they will _want_ to rather than be forced to because that's what the lore says.

You know, you could implement some interaction with the DMG Honor stat. Have Slayers require an Honor stat below say 13 or so, like a reversal of the typical multiclass requirement.

Of the dot points I like the last one best, it suits the flavor and ironically could be a semi-frequent occurrence if the player is on-board. I'd say make it a minute instead of a round to make up for the party losing a member (and all their actions/damage). The best (and I think funniest) part is that Resurrection magic is a thing from level 5 so it's entirely possible to just keep bringing the poor sod back after every death that isn't heroic enough.

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## Beezus

*Path of the Slayer* (Version 2)

Slayer's Quarry
When you choose this path at 3rd level, you learn how to pursue a target with single-minded determination.
	Whenever you finish a long rest, choose a type of creature: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead. Alternatively, you can select two races of humanoid (such as gnolls and orcs) as your quarry.
	You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your Slayer's Quarry, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them. Your Rage Damage bonus is doubled against your quarry. You retain these benefits until the end of your next long rest.

Mighty Blow
Starting at 3rd level, you gain the following benefits while you are not wearing medium armor or wielding a shield:
	When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.	When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Stout-hearted
Starting at 6th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed, and you cannot be charmed, frightened, or possessed by your Slayer's Quarry.

Grudgelord
Starting at 10th level, while you're raging, hostile creatures within 30 ft of you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and any of your Slayer's Quarry within 30 ft of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw in order to move more than 30 ft away from you. The DC for this saving throw is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier.

Deathsong
Starting at 14th level, any melee attack roll you make while raging is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20, or 18 if you are attacking your Slayer's Quarry.
When you have 0 hit points, you can choose to die, rather than make death saves.	When you die, all of your allies that can see or hear you gain advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 minute. They automatically succeed on any ability checks to recall how you died, or to recount the tale to others.

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## Kane0

Yeah thats looking much better!

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## MrStabby

*



			
				Path of the Slayer (Version 2)

Slayer's Quarry
When you choose this path at 3rd level, you learn how to pursue a target with single-minded determination.
Whenever you finish a long rest, choose a type of creature: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead. Alternatively, you can select two races of humanoid (such as gnolls and orcs) as your quarry.
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your Slayer's Quarry, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them. Your Rage Damage bonus is doubled against your quarry. You retain these benefits until the end of your next long rest.
			
		

OK, its fine... but I would caution about thinking this is strong.  On a ranger, the survival element of it uses their probably above average wisdom and they are marginally more likely than many classes to be the one making survival or knowledge checks due to extra skills.  Barbarians are slightly MAD and the need for a modicum of Int to get value out of this means its unlikely to make any practical difference in most games.  Maybe adding some skills in as well?  Maybe some history proficiency to track grudges?






Mighty Blow
Starting at 3rd level, you gain the following benefits while you are not wearing medium armor or wielding a shield:

When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.


I am also going to run with this being slightly on the weak side.  You get to chose between two weak fighting styles.  The two handed one at least might see slightly more damage dice rolled due to more crit dice on barbarians.

I worry firstly that this level 3 is a bit on the weak side, but more importantly, it just isn't going to feel cool.  Imagine you are playing this - a fighting style is something so many other classes get and won't feel special.  A ranger ability, is maybe a bit more special but not unique - but there isn't something that shines.  If you were to ignore the mechanics but t look at results, would there be anything that would show this character to be a Slayer?  It isn't like they are surviving massive fireball damage or are burning with fire nearby enemies.

If you want to "persue a target with single-minded determination", then I might look more towards the vengeance paladin and its level 7 ability or the orcish agression ability to advance towards an enemy.  Not specifically copying them, but using fo ideas.






Stout-hearted
Starting at 6th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed, and you cannot be charmed, frightened, or possessed by your Slayer's Quarry.
			
		

I think this is too much.  Not only do you copy the Berserker's best ability, but you also add possession to the list of conditions and you don't even need to be raging!  This stomps all over the other options.






Grudgelord
Starting at 10th level, while you're raging, hostile creatures within 30 ft of you have disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and any of your Slayer's Quarry within 30 ft of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw in order to move more than 30 ft away from you. The DC for this saving throw is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier.
			
		

I think I need a bit of help to see why this is a thing.  Is it magic that stops people running away?  Are they physically grabbing them?  Likewise what is the justification for providing disadvntage?  I am not saying there isn't a thematic reason - I just think it would benefit from being clearer.





Deathsong
Starting at 14th level, any melee attack roll you make while raging is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20, or 18 if you are attacking your Slayer's Quarry.
When you have 0 hit points, you can choose to die, rather than make death saves. When you die, all of your allies that can see or hear you gain advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 minute. They automatically succeed on any ability checks to recall how you died, or to recount the tale to others.
			
		

I quite like it.  Level 14 usually builds on other abilities though (whic this kind of does).



I think this class just feels like it needs its identity made stronger.  Most barbarians get an ability a level 3 that sets them apart from other martials and then builds on that.  The abilities are usually stronger, because they are limited by rage.  I worry that with relatively subtle abilities and very situational abilities that this will feel like a barbarian without a subclass a lot of the time.

I think the class is a tricky one to pull off because you want a character that can be played as not being afraid of death whilst still being rewarding for a player that doesn't want to roll up a new character each week.*

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## Beezus

What do you think of these?
Starting at 6th level, while you're raging, you can use a bonus action on each of your turns to move up to your speed toward your Slayer's Quarry. You may make this movement even while frightened.At 6th level, you gain proficiency in the Performance skill if you do not already have it, and you can use Strength, rather than Charisma, for any Performance check that involves showing off your scars or otherwise boasting of your exploits.

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