# Forum > Play-by-Post Games > Finding Players (Recruitment) > Recruiting Nexus, The City of Legends [Epic Pathfinder]

## Melnibonean

You reached some of the greatest powers of your world, fought many battles and incredibly powerful creatures, Liches, but your adventures are not over. In your latest adventure, you found a steel rod with a cut diamond on top, emanating a strange light. You said the magic word and waited for minutes until an hour passed, and a magical portal opened in front of you. You walked into the portal, traveling through the multiverse, with your eyes catching glimpses of all planes and dimensions. The travel was only a minute, but was disorienting until you appear on a harbor surrounded by a gigantic wall, in front of you, there are celestials, fiends, dragons, all kind of people from across the multiverse waiting in line to get into Nexus, the City of Legends.

Nexus is a launchpad for Epic adventures, a city where some of the most powerful beings across the multiverse congregate, and sometimes it is even possible to find Gods walking the streets. This campaign run with Pathfinder 1st edition and Jesse Epic Pathfinder 1.6 supplement.




> *1. What game system are you running (D&D, Call of Cthulu, Palladium, GURPS, etc.), and if applicable what edition (Original, Classic, Revised, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th, etc.)?*
> 
> Pathfinder First edition
> 
> *2. What 'type' or variant of game will it be (i.e. "Shadow Chasers" or "Agents of Psi" for d20 Modern)? What is the setting for the game (eg. historic period, published or homebrewed campaign setting, alternate reality, modern world, etc.)?*
> 
> Epic Adventures and Planar Adventures
> 
> *3. How many Players are you looking for? Will you be taking alternates, and if so, how many?*
> ...

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## Duqueen

Would you be so kind to add Spheres to the mix? Pretty please??  :Small Big Grin:

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## Melnibonean

> Would you be so kind to add Spheres to the mix? Pretty please??


Spheres would require a different kind of adjustment compared to the materials listed in the OP, will sadly have to deny this request.

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## Duqueen

that is fair, but I had to ask  :Small Big Grin:

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## Kvard51

Yep, I'm in.  I'll think about what to go with here.

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## Duqueen

What is the availability of firearms? I am going either straight Warlord or Warlord/Evangelist.

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## Hellfire014

> *What is the availability of firearms?* I am going either straight Warlord or Warlord/Evangelist.


Seconding bolded.

Are Soulknives treated as High-Psionic?

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## Melnibonean

> What is the availability of firearms? I am going either straight Warlord or Warlord/Evangelist.


Commonplace, there are people trading firearms in the City from various planes. Most individuals come from world with emerging guns or simply prefer to keep using other weapons.




> Seconding bolded.
> 
> Are Soulknives treated as High-Psionic?


Yes, for Soulknives as high-psionic.

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## Duqueen

I just noticed, are we allowed to take 2 traits?

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## Armonia13

Definitely interested! I think I'm going to look through some of the Prestige classes and build backwards from there. I don't normally go prestige so this seems like a fun opportunity to try one. I'm building me a Mammoth Rider!

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## Kaworu

Hm... I would like to play, maybe? ;-) I remember this Prestige Class from 3.0 wizards book about a summoner of Levecraftian beings... Alienist? :-P

Would it be possible to take that Prestige Class with a regular Wizard from PF1e SRD? Maybe Elder Mythos Scholar?

Sorry, I hope the concept is not too strange? ;-)

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## samduke

Interested and will work something up




> 6. How much gold or other starting funds will the characters begin with?
> 
> 1,200,000 gp, no single magic item can be worth more than 400,000 gp and *only three items can be worth more than 120,000 gp.*
> You start with a Star flare, a steel rod that allows to open a portal to Nexus.


You do realize that Epic Items  will exceed the above 400 K
Table 6-1: Epic Armor and Shields, Table 6-6: Epic Weapons , Ect  (Pathfinder Epic-Level Handbook, v1.6)
even several non Epic Items exceed the bolded portion , I have to ask why the *Bolded* limit at all ?

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## Llyarden

Oh hey this got a DM!  So no akashic which is unfortunate but fair enough - are we restricted to the PoW/Psionics things published by DSP themselves, or are materials for those subsystems by other publishers fair game?

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## MagneticDragon

Hmmm, so this game got a thread after all? Consider me excited and interested!

A shame we are only starting at level 21 though... I assume that the plan is to take us though other levels so that we can grow as epic characters?

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## Melnibonean

> I just noticed, are we allowed to take 2 traits?


Yes, I will edit the OP to include the traits.




> Definitely interested! I think I'm going to look through some of the Prestige classes and build backwards from there. I don't normally go prestige so this seems like a fun opportunity to try one. I'm building me a Mammoth Rider!


A great time indeed for Mammoth Rider!





> Hm... I would like to play, maybe? ;-) I remember this Prestige Class from 3.0 wizards book about a summoner of Levecraftian beings... Alienist? :-P
> 
> Would it be possible to take that Prestige Class with a regular Wizard from PF1e SRD? Maybe Elder Mythos Scholar?
> 
> Sorry, I hope the concept is not too strange? ;-)


Not too strange, but have you seen the Morphic Savant Summoner? 

But if you really want the Alienist, we could probably work something out, would probably replace the Pseudonatural template with Entropic creature to match pathfinder.





> Interested and will work something up
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Epic Items  will exceed the above 400 K
> Table 6-1: Epic Armor and Shields, Table 6-6: Epic Weapons , Ect  (Pathfinder Epic-Level Handbook, v1.6)
> even several non Epic Items exceed the bolded portion , I have to ask why the *Bolded* limit at all ?


I do realize it. 25% of WBL on magic items is the recommended distribution at character creation, and this rule is taken from the Epic Level Handbook for newly created characters. Pathfinder also recommends the 25% distribution on characters created above level 1. 

The other pathfinder suggestion is spending no more than half on a single magic item (600K) which I don't believe would change the access much on the epic magic item tables.

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## Melnibonean

> Oh hey this got a DM!  So no akashic which is unfortunate but fair enough - are we restricted to the PoW/Psionics things published by DSP themselves, or are materials for those subsystems by other publishers fair game?


DSP only by default, but if you are interested in any other expansion of psionics from other publishers, just ask and will at least be considered. 




> Hmmm, so this game got a thread after all? Consider me excited and interested!
> 
> A shame we are only starting at level 21 though... I assume that the plan is to take us though other levels so that we can grow as epic characters?


That's the plan, at least. I don't expect the game to go beyond level 30, which yeah while it can technically scale to infinity, I think it would be a good time to stop.

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## Llyarden

> DSP only by default, but if you are interested in any other expansion of psionics from other publishers, just ask and will at least be considered.


I was actually hoping to use a PoW expansion in the form of this discipline by Legendary Games, and a few associated feats.

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## Darius Vibrtrar

Interested! Finally a chance to play a Dread/Nightmare!

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## Melnibonean

> I was actually hoping to use a PoW expansion in the form of this discipline by Legendary Games, and a few associated feats.


Sure, you can use it and the associated feats.




> Interested! Finally a chance to play a Dread/Nightmare!


Indeed, what a great time to be alive.

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## samduke

@ Melnibonean

okay thoughts on WBL stuff with the Epic rules and your Limit on WBL 
Weapon +6 +720,000 exceeds the 1st and thus can never be gotten pre-game

Headband of Mental Superiority +6 144K
Belt of Physical Perfection +6 144K
and if one used +6 epic armor 360K which barely fits under the 1st limit this fills the 1st & 2nd 3 limits

so I think most epic items pre-game are going to be out of reach in an Epic Game, My question is will these items be available in game ?

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## MagneticDragon

I had been toying with the idea of playing a Kineticist. But, considering the fact that we are playing in one super-city. I do believe that the Vigilante would be a perfect choice for a game like this.

Specifically, I am going to be combining the Alchemical Scoundral archetype with the Dynamic Striker specialization in order to play a master of bombs that can also kickass in melee range with brutal counter-attack capabilities.

Not quite a full batman esque character, as I will not have the intimidate or stealth abilities. But let's be totally honest. We all know Batman is a Gestalt.

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## Aleph Null

Darn it.
I was excited to see this had gotten a DM, but the "official PC races only" restriction is a hard no for me. I have long since exhausted my excitement for 'typical humanoid race' stuff since I get a pretty strong kick out of the uniqueness of being that one awakened seven-headed hydra (complete with seven personalities) in the group that happens to have a hat of disguise/alter self and can pass as a druid with a hydra-specific wild shape for the purposes of not terrifying the locals.

...I may have done that already and therefore be looking to do something different, but you get the idea. Side-note, that character _was not_
 comic relief -- he actually had a serious character arc where his guardian-like personality ended up getting him "elected" the ruler of a city and having to grapple with his differences from those that surrounded him. (I use quotes because it was a merit based contest rather than an actual election)

Unless exceptions can be made to the "don't go outside Paizo's neat little PC boxes"[1] rule, I'm gonna have to wait for the next one.

[1] This is not something I'm judging, as allowing out-of-normal stuff can add DM overhead if one isn't careful, but I just prefer the freedom of choice there. That's all.

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## Melnibonean

> @ Melnibonean
> 
> okay thoughts on WBL stuff with the Epic rules and your Limit on WBL 
> Weapon +6 +720,000 exceeds the 1st and thus can never be gotten pre-game
> 
> Headband of Mental Superiority +6 144K
> Belt of Physical Perfection +6 144K
> and if one used +6 epic armor 360K which barely fits under the 1st limit this fills the 1st & 2nd 3 limits
> 
> so I think most epic items pre-game are going to be out of reach in an Epic Game, My question is will these items be available in game ?


Yes, these items will be available in game. I also imagine many characters will pick Boss or With The Sword or Perfect Body, Flawless Mind alternate capstones, for classes with less than amazing capstones.




> I had been toying with the idea of playing a Kineticist. But, considering the fact that we are playing in one super-city. I do believe that the Vigilante would be a perfect choice for a game like this.
> 
> Specifically, I am going to be combining the Alchemical Scoundral archetype with the Dynamic Striker specialization in order to play a master of bombs that can also kickass in melee range with brutal counter-attack capabilities.
> 
> Not quite a full batman esque character, as I will not have the intimidate or stealth abilities. But let's be totally honest. We all know Batman is a Gestalt.


Sounds like a fun setup.




> Darn it.
> I was excited to see this had gotten a DM, but the "official PC races only" restriction is a hard no for me. I have long since exhausted my excitement for 'typical humanoid race' stuff since I get a pretty strong kick out of the uniqueness of being that one awakened seven-headed hydra (complete with seven personalities) in the group that happens to have a hat of disguise/alter self and can pass as a druid with a hydra-specific wild shape for the purposes of not terrifying the locals.
> 
> ...I may have done that already and therefore be looking to do something different, but you get the idea. Side-note, that character _was not_
>  comic relief -- he actually had a serious character arc where his guardian-like personality ended up getting him "elected" the ruler of a city and having to grapple with his differences from those that surrounded him. (I use quotes because it was a merit based contest rather than an actual election)
> 
> Unless exceptions can be made to the "don't go outside Paizo's neat little PC boxes"[1] rule, I'm gonna have to wait for the next one.
> 
> [1] This is not something I'm judging, as allowing out-of-normal stuff can add DM overhead if one isn't careful, but I just prefer the freedom of choice there. That's all.


By level 20, with many different spells, class features and capstones someone can transform/change into all kind of creature, so no exception and on top of it, the Pathfinder rules for using CR monster as PC are very harsh.

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## Aleph Null

> Yes, these items will be available in game. I also imagine many characters will pick Boss or With The Sword or Perfect Body, Flawless Mind alternate capstones, for classes with less than amazing capstones.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a fun setup.
> 
> 
> 
> By level 20, with many different spells, class features and capstones someone can transform/change into all kind of creature, so no exception and on top of it, the Pathfinder rules for using CR monster as PC are very harsh.


Well, that isn't really the same, since being transformed into something just lets you temporarily become that thing mechanically. I want to _roleplay the mindset_ of something distinctly inhuman (since the various humanoid races are basically humans in funny suits these days, with all the human-like quirks they try to give them).

As for the CR monsters as PC rules, do you mean they're hard to balance? Or is there something else you mean by that, since they're essentially guidelines and a framework rather than hard rules...
I do prefer using those than nothing at all, so if you're willing to run with that (assuming we're thinking of the same thing) I'm fine with that

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## 3SecondCultist

Well that is interesting. Potentially in, depending on some build ideas.

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## JollyChris

Still interested will start having a look at what i want to paly.

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## MagneticDragon

> Still interested will start having a look at what i want to paly.
> 
> Edit: Are we using the automatic progression rules? Cos the sidebar on page 4 of the epic rules says this " have enjoyed success with this ruleset in my own campaigns, and strongly encourage GMs to consider the epic expansion for these rules found in Chapter 8 of this document"


Except if you went and looked you would discover there is no Epic Automatic Progression

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## JollyChris

> Except if you went and looked you would discover there is no Epic Automatic Progression


Yeah i just removed that from my post cos i found out it isn't there. Did he take it out?

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## 3SecondCultist

Im thinking of a vivisector of miracles, someone who is looking to carve apart divinity to see what makes it tick. If anyone has read _Practical Guide to Evil_, it is a similar character to the Heirophant.

Exploiter Wizard will be the most likely build. Probably a Dhampir.

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## Melnibonean

> Well, that isn't really the same, since being transformed into something just lets you temporarily become that thing mechanically. I want to _roleplay the mindset_ of something distinctly inhuman (since the various humanoid races are basically humans in funny suits these days, with all the human-like quirks they try to give them).
> 
> As for the CR monsters as PC rules, do you mean they're hard to balance? Or is there something else you mean by that, since they're essentially guidelines and a framework rather than hard rules...
> I do prefer using those than nothing at all, so if you're willing to run with that (assuming we're thinking of the same thing) I'm fine with that


I won't be using them.




> Yeah i just removed that from my post cos i found out it isn't there. Did he take it out?


They were never in, in a forum thread on Paizo, someone asked him about it, Jesse planned to add it and was going to do it in the next update but as you can tell, he never came back after posting 1.6.




> Im thinking of a vivisector of miracles, someone who is looking to carve apart divinity to see what makes it tick. If anyone has read _Practical Guide to Evil_, it is a similar character to the Heirophant.
> 
> Exploiter Wizard will be the most likely build. Probably a Dhampir.


An interesting angle to go with, will see how it turns out.

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## Aleph Null

> Im thinking of a vivisector of miracles, someone who is looking to carve apart divinity to see what makes it tick. If anyone has read _Practical Guide to Evil_, it is a similar character to the Heirophant.
> 
> Exploiter Wizard will be the most likely build. Probably a Dhampir.


Practical guide to evil...huh.

@Mel if you're not willing to budge on the RHD/CR monster thing, I'll play a wyrwood instead -- I don't know how you would want to handle the construct modification shenanigans, though, or if it's just a LST (limited by my sensibility and your tolerance) thing. I.e. don't abuse it (which I wouldn't really care to do anyway). They make good wizards all things considered, though it's more pronounced at low levels due to the HP bonus being flat. I'm also thinking Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / someotherprestigeclass smth

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## Melnibonean

> Practical guide to evil...huh.
> 
> @Mel if you're not willing to budge on the RHD/CR monster thing, I'll play a wyrwood instead -- I don't know how you would want to handle the construct modification shenanigans, though, or if it's just a LST (limited by my sensibility and your tolerance) thing. I.e. don't abuse it (which I wouldn't really care to do anyway). They make good wizards all things considered, though it's more pronounced at low levels due to the HP bonus being flat. I'm also thinking Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / someotherprestigeclass smth


Wyrdwood are fine. As for construct modification, technically as written, only the construct creator can do the modifications. I suppose you could technically write down during character creation that your wyrdwood creator took the time to do a bunch of modifications to your body before you were ever born but for now, it's not something that I spend too much time thinking about.

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## Aleph Null

> Wyrdwood are fine. As for construct modification, technically as written, only the construct creator can do the modifications. I suppose you could technically write down during character creation that your wyrdwood creator took the time to do a bunch of modifications to your body before you were ever born but for now, it's not something that I spend too much time thinking about.


IIRC you can modify someone else's construct if you have the feat, the only trick is having to do the modifications through a familiar since you have to be 'off' during the modification process. If you're concerned I can list the modifications I'd want and you can have a look at each individually, if the issue would be balance.

Hrmm...so I can afford to take the 2 level CL hit because I can take magical knack, and I guess wizard 10 does give bonus feats...Wiz10/f1/EK10 gets to BAB 16 as well, so no trouble there.

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## Melnibonean

> IIRC you can modify someone else's construct if you have the feat, the only trick is having to do the modifications through a familiar since you have to be 'off' during the modification process. If you're concerned I can list the modifications I'd want and you can have a look at each individually, if the issue would be balance.
> 
> Hrmm...so I can afford to take the 2 level CL hit because I can take magical knack, and I guess wizard 10 does give bonus feats...Wiz10/f1/EK10 gets to BAB 16 as well, so no trouble there.


I'm not really concerned, to be honest. If it is too much, I simply will not pick the character.

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## Llyarden

How much leeway can we have in refluffing stuff?  My current idea is someone who comes from a world where the souls of powerful fallen heroes become the stars, and who's learned to call down the power of those legendary heroes, but that does require a bit of refluffing of stuff to make all the abilities coherent.

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## Melnibonean

> How much leeway can we have in refluffing stuff?  My current idea is someone who comes from a world where the souls of powerful fallen heroes become the stars, and who's learned to call down the power of those legendary heroes, but that does require a bit of refluffing of stuff to make all the abilities coherent.


You can reskin/refluff, it's not a problem.

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## Armonia13

So I have some questions about mounted combat I'd like your ruling on if that's alright. It'll help decide on some key elements to my build, so definitely needed, thank you.

If my mount had Pounce and I have Ride-by Attack, would my mount be able to make a full attack before we move away?

Would Mounted Skirmisher work with Ride-by Attack if we move less than my mount's speed before attacking, move less than my mount's speed in the total distance traveled, or not work at all because it's a charge?

This still isn't completely clear to me, but at the end of a charge(or Ride-by Attack), if my mount and I have the same reach, are we both allowed to attack the same target? Add Pounce to the mix, would I get a hit in followed by my mount's full attack?

Here are the feats I mentioned, the bolded part is what brings these questions to mind.
*Spoiler: Ride-by Attack*
Show


Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.

Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, *you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again* (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round cant exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.


*Spoiler: Mounted Skirmisher*
Show


Prerequisites: Ride rank 14, Mounted Combat, Trick Riding.

Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.

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## Melnibonean

> So I have some questions about mounted combat I'd like your ruling on if that's alright. It'll help decide on some key elements to my build, so definitely needed, thank you.
> 
> If my mount had Pounce and I have Ride-by Attack, would my mount be able to make a full attack before we move away?
> 
> Would Mounted Skirmisher work with Ride-by Attack if we move less than my mount's speed before attacking, move less than my mount's speed in the total distance traveled, or not work at all because it's a charge?
> 
> This still isn't completely clear to me, but at the end of a charge(or Ride-by Attack), if my mount and I have the same reach, are we both allowed to attack the same target? Add Pounce to the mix, would I get a hit in followed by my mount's full attack?
> 
> Here are the feats I mentioned, the bolded part is what brings these questions to mind.
> ...


Charging is a single action for both the rider and the mount, counting as one from the Paizo FAQ.


So your choice is either you full attack or you let your mount pounce (Deciding which charge action you are going to use).

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## Aleph Null

> I'm not really concerned, to be honest. If it is too much, I simply will not pick the character.


True fair nuff -- I'd def ask you to vet it first tho so I don't get surprised  :Small Big Grin: 

EDIT speaking of which how long should I expect to have for this bigthink? Just so I don't fall behind

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## Armonia13

> Charging is a single action for both the rider and the mount, counting as one from the Paizo FAQ.
> 
> 
> So your choice is either you full attack or you let your mount pounce (Deciding which charge action you are going to use).


Ok, does Mounted Skirmisher or Pounce work with Ride-by Attack? Unlike Spring Attack, Ride-By Attack isn't an action, it's an option for standard charges.

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## samduke

> Yes, these items will be available in game. I also imagine many characters will pick Boss or With The Sword or Perfect Body, Flawless Mind alternate capstones, for classes with less than amazing capstones.
> 
> 
> 7. Are there any particular character classes, professions, orders, etc. that you want... or do not want? What are your rules on 'prestige' and/or homebrewed classes?
> 
> All classes from Paizo are allowed, but the Epic supplement does not have a progression for some classes, if you stay a single class we would have to work on an epic progression.
> 
> 11. Do you allow multi-classing, or have any particular rules in regards to it?
> 
> Yes, multiclassing is allowed, you might consider it in particular for classes without epic progression.


Capstones presume one takes a class to a full 20+1 epic or the like to even see the Alternative Capstone Class Features
questions then 
#1 can a multi-class ECL 20+1 epic gain a Alternative Capstone Class Feature? even if none of their class levels reach level 20

#2 how do you want to handle the lack of capstone for those that do not get one if answering no to #1

#3 in the big 16 I did not see anything to indicate how you want hit points handled 

more question may come up

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## MagneticDragon

> Im thinking of a vivisector of miracles, someone who is looking to carve apart divinity to see what makes it tick. If anyone has read _Practical Guide to Evil_, it is a similar character to the Heirophant.
> 
> Exploiter Wizard will be the most likely build. Probably a Dhampir.


Okay. I want you to get into the game specifically due to this flavour alone. It is amazing.

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## Athaleon

Definitely interested. Thinking of going with an Awakened Blade since DSP is all on the table.

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## Llyarden

My current thinking is some mix of aegis, soulknife, metaforge, (some kind of initiator), awakened blade.   In...some order or other.

Are we allowed to do pre-game permanent stuff, like using the _wish_ books for inherent stats etc?  Or will that have to be done in-game?

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## Melnibonean

> True fair nuff -- I'd def ask you to vet it first tho so I don't get surprised 
> 
> EDIT speaking of which how long should I expect to have for this bigthink? Just so I don't fall behind


I'm waiting to see how long it takes to get some characters posted and go from there. It would be nice if we could get all apps done before the end of the year, but the holidays might slow down the applications.




> Ok, does Mounted Skirmisher or Pounce work with Ride-by Attack? Unlike Spring Attack, Ride-By Attack isn't an action, it's an option for standard charges.


Mounted Skirmisher work with Ride By Attack, but remember that Ride by Attack is a single attack. Mounted skirmisher in general is made to not work with charging, but you can use mounted skirmisher, move and full attack. Spring Attack requires its own full action.




> Capstones presume one takes a class to a full 20+1 epic or the like to even see the Alternative Capstone Class Features
> questions then 
> #1 can a multi-class ECL 20+1 epic gain a Alternative Capstone Class Feature? even if none of their class levels reach level 20
> 
> #2 how do you want to handle the lack of capstone for those that do not get one if answering no to #1
> 
> #3 in the big 16 I did not see anything to indicate how you want hit points handled 
> 
> more question may come up


#1 It is the perk of getting to 20 in a single class. 

#2 for now didn't think about adding anything for multiclassing but give me until tomorrow to make a final decision on that.

#3



> *9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?*
> 
> 25 Point Buy and Average Hit Points.

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## Melnibonean

> Definitely interested. Thinking of going with an Awakened Blade since DSP is all on the table.


A fun choice.




> My current thinking is some mix of aegis, soulknife, metaforge, (some kind of initiator), awakened blade.   In...some order or other.
> 
> Are we allowed to do pre-game permanent stuff, like using the _wish_ books for inherent stats etc?  Or will that have to be done in-game?


You mean Books like the Manual of Gainful Exercise? Sure, unless you mean something else.

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## Llyarden

> You mean Books like the Manual of Gainful Exercise? Sure, unless you mean something else.


Yes, those things, I wrote that on my phone and couldn't navigate AoN to remember what they were actually called lol.

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## Armonia13

> Mounted Skirmisher work with Ride By Attack, but remember that Ride by Attack is a single attack. Mounted skirmisher in general is made to not work with charging, but you can use mounted skirmisher, move and full attack. Spring Attack requires its own full action.


Ok, gonna keep it simple and go for single charge attacks. I'm now very much considering going Megaloceros for my companion and being a Santa Claus-esque character.

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## Dakrsidder

Tentative interest

Im probably going for a cryptic pattern breaker but Im also somewhat considering a legendary medium of sorts

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## samduke

> #1 It is the perk of getting to 20 in a single class. 
> 
> #2 for now didn't think about adding anything for multiclassing but give me until tomorrow to make a final decision on that.


okay in this instance I have 2 build Ideas
I will probably go with Idea 1 over 2 for the level Capstone Option though, unless you decide something very interesting for ECL 21 characters - and Can wait NP.


EDIT
Point Buy the charts all end at 7 for the low end
at PB 25 If I go with (18,14,14,14,7,7) I have 1 unused point I can not go to 8 or15 because I will have -1 point, but If I go down to a 6 vs. 7
I gain 2 points and could then have (18,14,14,14,10,6)

Will you permit me to have a dump score of 6 base ?

Table: Ability Score Costs
Score	Points
6      -6
7	-4
8	-2
9	-1
10	0
11	1
12	2
13	3
14	5
15	7
16	10
17	13
18	17

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## Zarthrax

Before I get too far into character planning, are Akishics also allowed or are they a no-go?

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## Melnibonean

> Yes, those things, I wrote that on my phone and couldn't navigate AoN to remember what they were actually called lol.


Oh yeah, on the phone, it's usually harder.




> Ok, gonna keep it simple and go for single charge attacks. I'm now very much considering going Megaloceros for my companion and being a Santa Claus-esque character.


Yeah a good way to go about it.




> Tentative interest
> 
> Im probably going for a cryptic pattern breaker but Im also somewhat considering a legendary medium of sorts


Either could be a lot of fun.




> okay in this instance I have 2 build Ideas
> I will probably go with Idea 1 over 2 for the level Capstone Option though, unless you decide something very interesting for ECL 21 characters - and Can wait NP.
> 
> 
> EDIT
> Point Buy the charts all end at 7 for the low end
> at PB 25 If I go with (18,14,14,14,7,7) I have 1 unused point I can not go to 8 or15 because I will have -1 point, but If I go down to a 6 vs. 7
> I gain 2 points and could then have (18,14,14,14,10,6)
> 
> ...


A dump score of 6, yeah sure.




> Before I get too far into character planning, are Akishics also allowed or are they a no-go?


No Akashic.

----------


## Kaworu

Hm... on second thought, maybe I will play an Elven Arcane Archer? :-P It would be more classy... ;-)

----------


## Melnibonean

> Hm... one second thought, maybe I will play an Elven Arcane Archer? :-P It would be more classy... ;-)


Arcane Archer is a classic choice, nice.

----------


## MagneticDragon

Any chance to include the Elephant in the Room Feat Taxes fix?

Just a little something to help smooth over the rough edges for non-PoW martial characters.

----------


## Heavenblade

This looks like fun - Im gonna try to build an ankou's shadow bounty hunter slayer who focuses on cleave. Still need to settle on flavor, but the mechanics work really nicely with supreme cleave from the epic pathfinder book.

----------


## samduke

@ Melnibonean

Okay with Items that use a Slot, are you allowing us to Combine Items that use the same slot?

IE: wings of flying and cloak of resistance

and then back to the related WBL limits if Item in the slot is under the 120K when combined presuming the rule of the lesser item costs 50% more does your rule of 120K apply before the combining or after for terms of GP Cost Limits

----------


## Thunder999

So, I could easily be a Ghost, (Deific obedience for Mestama, persists even if you cease performing the obedience, so a redeemed believer could still have it for the cost of a feat). Would that be ok? Or is being an incorporeal undead (with the one template that doesn't make you evil) too good for one feat? (It doesn't kick in until level 16, so not possible in many games, so I figured it's worth asking)

----------


## Zarthrax

> No Akashic.


Ok, how about the athanatism powers and feats from Psionics Augmented: The Seventh Path? If unfamiliar, they're on library of metofitz and  are basically psionic necromancy.


Also, stance on Legendary Items from the same company? It's like 3.5's Weapons of   Legacy, but actually workable...lol

----------


## Llyarden

> Ok, how about the athanatism powers and feats from Psionics Augmented: The Seventh Path? If unfamiliar, they're on library of metofitz and  are basically psionic necromancy.


I guess to generalise this a little - are psionic and PoW materials published by DSP (such as Seventh Path) allowed?  Or was the intent to only allow the core books from each subsystem?

----------


## Melnibonean

> Any chance to include the Elephant in the Room Feat Taxes fix?
> 
> Just a little something to help smooth over the rough edges for non-PoW martial characters.


By level 21, I think the number of feats is okay to build whatever you want. Non-PoW martials also have more support with the Epic system on top of it.




> This looks like fun - Im gonna try to build an ankou's shadow bounty hunter slayer who focuses on cleave. Still need to settle on flavor, but the mechanics work really nicely with supreme cleave from the epic pathfinder book.


Ankou shadow bounty hunter are very fun.




> @ Melnibonean
> 
> Okay with Items that use a Slot, are you allowing us to Combine Items that use the same slot?
> 
> IE: wings of flying and cloak of resistance
> 
> and then back to the related WBL limits if Item in the slot is under the 120K when combined presuming the rule of the lesser item costs 50% more does your rule of 120K apply before the combining or after for terms of GP Cost Limits


Yes, can combine items using the same slot.
Higher than 120K+ is the final magic item cost. 




> So, I could easily be a Ghost, (Deific obedience for Mestama, persists even if you cease performing the obedience, so a redeemed believer could still have it for the cost of a feat). Would that be ok? Or is being an incorporeal undead (with the one template that doesn't make you evil) too good for one feat? (It doesn't kick in until level 16, so not possible in many games, so I figured it's worth asking)


It's technically demonic obedience, as Mestama is a demonlord. Ghost is not an issue in itself, even more so with capstones in play, I remember seeing some archetypes etc...giving various templates.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Ok, how about the athanatism powers and feats from Psionics Augmented: The Seventh Path? If unfamiliar, they're on library of metofitz and  are basically psionic necromancy.
> 
> 
> Also, stance on Legendary Items from the same company? It's like 3.5's Weapons of   Legacy, but actually workable...lol





> I guess to generalise this a little - are psionic and PoW materials published by DSP (such as Seventh Path) allowed?  Or was the intent to only allow the core books from each subsystem?


Seventh Path is fine. Most psionic augmented stuff are fine like the Voyager class.

Legendary Items and stuff like monster classes from DSP aren't considered.

----------


## Rokku

Ooh, I'd love to try out an Epic Legendary Kineticist. Are the other materials from Ultimate Kineticists available?

----------


## MagneticDragon

> By level 21, I think the number of feats is okay to build whatever you want. Non-PoW martials also have more support with the Epic system on top of it.


Except for the fact that we are basically not using the epic system at level 21, so while they might get stronger progression, the Non-PoW Martials will still be hampered by this unnecessary limitation.

I mean, consider someone who wants to play a Two-Weapon Fighter - you need 3 feats just to make Two-Weapon Fighting Full-Attacks, Weapon Finesse as you are most certainly going to be a primary dex user, and either Power Attack or Pirrhana Attack in order to keep up in terms of damage. That's 5 feats total, _half_ of the amount of non-epic feats you will have by at this level. Meanwhile, Elephant in the Feat Taxes cuts this down to just two feats. Giving you 3 extra feats to flesh out your build in more unique ways.

That's what EiFT does, smooths out the rough edges for builds and lets them be more unique to the individual when going for previous feat-intensive builds.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Ooh, I'd love to try out an Epic Legendary Kineticist. Are the other materials from Ultimate Kineticists available?


Yes, Legendary games compiled kineticist abilities from other publishers into the Ultimate Kineticist, and it's fine to use.




> Except for the fact that we are basically not using the epic system at level 21, so while they might get stronger progression, the Non-PoW Martials will still be hampered by this unnecessary limitation.
> 
> I mean, consider someone who wants to play a Two-Weapon Fighter - you need 3 feats just to make Two-Weapon Fighting Full-Attacks, Weapon Finesse as you are most certainly going to be a primary dex user, and either Power Attack or Pirrhana Attack in order to keep up in terms of damage. That's 5 feats total, _half_ of the amount of non-epic feats you will have by at this level. Meanwhile, Elephant in the Feat Taxes cuts this down to just two feats. Giving you 3 extra feats to flesh out your build in more unique ways.
> 
> That's what EiFT does, smooths out the rough edges for builds and lets them be more unique to the individual when going for previous feat-intensive builds.


I read it, but not interested to be honest.

----------


## MagneticDragon

Very well. You are the DM, it is your choice.

----------


## Zarthrax

@Melnibonean-

Already have a decent idea for a character, but one final question.

Would this bloodline be allowable for the Eldritch Heritage feat line? Specifically, I'm wanting the 9th level ability.

----------


## Melnibonean

> @Melnibonean-
> 
> Already have a decent idea for a character, but one final question.
> 
> Would this bloodline be allowable for the Eldritch Heritage feat line? Specifically, I'm wanting the 9th level ability.


Yes, Paizo Fan United, hadn't seen any wayfinder material in awhile.

----------


## Llyarden

> Yes, Legendary games compiled kineticist abilities from other publishers into the Ultimate Kineticist, and it's fine to use.


Dang, now I wish I'd asked for that and tried to be a soundweaver with all the weird elements lol.  Ah well, not gonna step on someone else's toes when they've expressed interest in doing it, and I like how my current concept is shaping up in fluff at least, even if it's not going to be particularly mechanically strong.

----------


## samduke

@ Melnibonean

the libraryofmetzofitz  has a few classes that legendary-games does not


if we wanted to use legendary classes from libraryofmetzofitz can we?

----------


## Aleph Null

Is there a chance we can gain templates with gold or the like? there are certain acquired templates that can be added to someone through magic shenanigans, and I'm pretty sure some of them even have mechanics for that -- if I can find a cost, is that do-able?

----------


## Melnibonean

> @ Melnibonean
> 
> the libraryofmetzofitz  has a few classes that legendary-games does not
> 
> 
> if we wanted to use legendary classes from libraryofmetzofitz can we?


From what I saw, the Library content appears to be correct, so you can use it. If I see something off, will let people know.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Is there a chance we can gain templates with gold or the like? there are certain acquired templates that can be added to someone through magic shenanigans, and I'm pretty sure some of them even have mechanics for that -- if I can find a cost, is that do-able?


In pathfinder, not really that many you can acquire with gold but I know some templates can be gained with class features/archetypes/capstones etc...

----------


## Armonia13

Ok, so I'm stuck between a Half Elf Cavalier/Mammoth Rider Santa Claus OR a Shabti Hunter/Mammoth Rider Horus. Got some new questions to help break the tie.

Is Leadership allowed? Santa needs some 'elves' for his workshop.

If I take the Beast Speaker feat line, would this allow me to have a Huge sized Sun Falcon to ride on?

----------


## Melnibonean

> Ok, so I'm stuck between a Half Elf Cavalier/Mammoth Rider Santa Claus OR a Shabti Hunter/Mammoth Rider Horus. Got some new questions to help break the tie.
> 
> Is Leadership allowed? Santa needs some 'elves' for his workshop.
> 
> If I take the Beast Speaker feat line, would this allow me to have a Huge sized Sun Falcon to ride on?


Leadership is allowed. Sure, I would expand the list to Sun Falcon if you get the feats.

----------


## Armonia13

> Leadership is allowed. Sure, I would expand the list to Sun Falcon if you get the feats.


So much for making that an easier decision. xD which one do you feel would fit better?

----------


## paradox26

I have been following this thread, and figured when it exploded overnight that I had better express interest before it closes. I am considering either a paladin or a dread. I haven't played a dread in ages, and enjoy them. But I have been on a paladin kick lately. Tough decision.

----------


## Melnibonean

> So much for making that an easier decision. xD which one do you feel would fit better?


Beast Speaker




> I have been following this thread, and figured when it exploded overnight that I had better express interest before it closes. I am considering either a paladin or a dread. I haven't played a dread in ages, and enjoy them. But I have been on a paladin kick lately. Tough decision.


Someone said a few post ago, that they wanted to do a Dread, so might help you decide.

----------


## samduke

Well I think this is ready Lilliana Hesporath
a tad of GP left over for in game stuff

----------


## paradox26

I did see someone mention doing a dread, but I think they were planning to multiclass, whereas I was planning to go the full 21 levels in the class. I might build one of each, then decide which to use for my application. I use Hero Labs, so it doesn't take long to build a character. I am already a third of the way through building the dread concept.

Also, is the drider an acceptable race? It is on the page you linked to in the 16, but it is also considered a powerful race, so I wanted to check before I picked it. It would suit the dread character concept really well. If not, I will use a samsaran.

EDIT: Just looked up the post again. It turns out they weren't multiclassing, they were using an archetype. I wasn't planning on using an archetype at this stage, so there is still going to be some difference. Of course, I could just bypass the dread powers and go full Psion for getting psionic powers too. Just a thought.

----------


## Zarthrax

@Melnibonean-

Permission for the Forgelord PrC? The minor artifact I'd select would be a Sihedron Tome.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Well I think this is ready Lilliana Hesporath
> a tad of GP left over for in game stuff


Nice, yeah, can save it as pocket change.




> I did see someone mention doing a dread, but I think they were planning to multiclass, whereas I was planning to go the full 21 levels in the class. I might build one of each, then decide which to use for my application. I use Hero Labs, so it doesn't take long to build a character. I am already a third of the way through building the dread concept.
> 
> Also, is the drider an acceptable race? It is on the page you linked to in the 16, but it is also considered a powerful race, so I wanted to check before I picked it. It would suit the dread character concept really well. If not, I will use a samsaran.
> 
> EDIT: Just looked up the post again. It turns out they weren't multiclassing, they were using an archetype. I wasn't planning on using an archetype at this stage, so there is still going to be some difference. Of course, I could just bypass the dread powers and go full Psion for getting psionic powers too. Just a thought.


Yes, Drider is fine.




> @Melnibonean-
> 
> Permission for the Forgelord PrC? The minor artifact I'd select would be a Sihedron Tome.


It is allowed.

----------


## Yas392

Throwing my hat in with a soulknife.

*Questions*

1) If my character has the mixed blood (trait) and chose the elf subtype, would they qualify for woodborn favored class bonus for soulknife? 

2) If my character has the psychic toolkit blade skill, can they create expendable tools like healing kit or is it restricted to tools described in the entry or permanent tools? Can it also be used to create clothing?

----------


## Hellfire014

Got pretty far building the Augmented Blade Soulknife/Strategos, looked at it, and didn't like what I saw. Dropping that, now looking at a Kitsune Hexcrafter Magus or Witch. Mischievous Tail, Ring of Eloquence, and Polymorphic pouch, time to magically prank people without ever leaving fox form.  :Belkar:

----------


## QuantumFlash

Whew, been a while since I was last around here, been busy, and came back to this.  If this is still open I'll throw my hat in the ring.  Now just to see what I might want to build.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Throwing my hat in with a soulknife.
> 
> *Questions*
> 
> 1) If my character has the mixed blood (trait) and chose the elf subtype, would they qualify for woodborn favored class bonus for soulknife? 
> 
> 2) If my character has the psychic toolkit blade skill, can they create expendable tools like healing kit or is it restricted to tools described in the entry or permanent tools? Can it also be used to create clothing?


1) Bloodforge, I technically didn't add it in the list of available materials. But sure, for this specific instance, I will allow mixed blood trait and the soulknife bonus. It doesn't mean the rest of the bloodforge book is allowed before someone ask.

2) Just tools, not clothing and not expandable healing kit.




> Got pretty far building the Augmented Blade Soulknife/Strategos, looked at it, and didn't like what I saw. Dropping that, now looking at a Kitsune Hexcrafter Magus or Witch. Mischievous Tail, Ring of Eloquence, and Polymorphic pouch, time to magically prank people without ever leaving fox form.


Often part of the process deciding on a final character.




> Whew, been a while since I was last around here, been busy, and came back to this.  If this is still open I'll throw my hat in the ring.  Now just to see what I might want to build.


It is open and so far only one character completed.

----------


## paradox26

I have settled on my character. He will be a Psion 11/Thrallherd 10. Since leadership effects are permitted, I figured I might as well use them.

----------


## MagneticDragon

Question, can I base the Alchemical Scoundrel on the Legendary Alchemist? Which means I'll likely need the Quintessence Class feature to make full use of it's discoveries alongside being able to pick up Mutagen or Bombs?

----------


## Llyarden

So, kind of an odd question - _blade bangles_ are a wrist slot item, so you can't by default wear two of them.  However, the bangle itself makes mention of potentially using multiple at once.  Is this just a case of bad writing, or do you think we're supposed to be able to wear two at once?

----------


## Melnibonean

> I have settled on my character. He will be a Psion 11/Thrallherd 10. Since leadership effects are permitted, I figured I might as well use them.


Yes it is indeed allowed.




> Question, can I base the Alchemical Scoundrel on the Legendary Alchemist? Which means I'll likely need the Quintessence Class feature to make full use of it's discoveries alongside being able to pick up Mutagen or Bombs?


Sure, make a note of it somewhere on your sheet, so it would be easier for me when I look at it later. 




> So, kind of an odd question - _blade bangles_ are a wrist slot item, so you can't by default wear two of them.  However, the bangle itself makes mention of potentially using multiple at once.  Is this just a case of bad writing, or do you think we're supposed to be able to wear two at once?


Interesting, while it is possible to be a case of bad writing, specific trumps general. Sure, would allow it for two blade bangles.

----------


## Llyarden

Are there any particular creature types that it would be a bad idea to be forced to destroy by class features?  (For instance, given the introduction I would presume an Oath Against The Wyrm paladin, whose code of conduct mandates slaying any and all evil dragons, might have difficulties, but are there any others?)

----------


## Triskavanski

Making note of creation development of epic high level person making casting the spells time.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Are there any particular creature types that it would be a bad idea to be forced to destroy by class features?  (For instance, given the introduction I would presume an Oath Against The Wyrm paladin, whose code of conduct mandates slaying any and all evil dragons, might have difficulties, but are there any others?)


In general, with how cosmopolitan the city is, I would not recommend going for have to kill x type of creatures at all cost. There are all kinds of inhabitants in the city, and some even come to the city to enjoy having the possibility to interact with other beings. Of course sometime violence/battle will occur, but just saying that it isn't the default.

----------


## Darius Vibrtrar

So at this stage,

Dread [Nightmare] 20
Zealot 1

Cause Nightmare only gets up to 6th level maneuvers, if I start leveling zealot [both CHA based and psionic] ill be able to get access to 9th level maneuvers eventually, and if I stay focused in sleeping goddess, the psionic discipline,  I think it will fit well as a foe debuffer and ally buffer.

So. Question. Does putting ghost touch on a weapon allow you to attack from the ethereal, if not is there is spell/enchantment that allows that.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

Is Eternal Apotheosis okay? I would very much like to play a Lich, and this is a hilarious way to make that work. My character will happily pay the gold cost, hell have Craft Wondrous Item for the phylactery, and hell have high enough bonuses to auto-pass all of the checks, so rolling should not be a factor.

Alternatively, would I be able to use Agent of the Graves capstone to become a Vampire? It would be easy enough to do with the right spells (controlling an intelligent vampire for a few days is easy enough at high levels, enough to become a vampire oneself).

----------


## Llyarden

Okay, so I've ended up with another question based on some slightly unclear writing...

Initiator's Soul, from Path of War: Expanded, turns the aegis into an initiator, using their 'aegis level' as their initiator level.  The only problem is that customisations don't otherwise use aegis level, other than as prerequisites, which makes it very unclear what happens when you take abilities that advance your level for the purpose of customisations.  To make matters more confusing, all the effects that can increase your effective level do so in subtly different ways...
- The Metaforge PrC increases your aegis level _'for the purposes of damage reduction and customization points. The metaforge does not gain any other benefits from an increased level (bonus customizations, daily uses of reconfigure, power points, etc.). This does, however, allow the metaforge to qualify for customizations dependent on his aegis level, such as the Reach customization.'_
- Student of the Astral Suit increases your aegis level _'to determine your number of customization points and which customizations you can select for your astral suit.'_
- And then the Psionic PrC rules mean that whenever you would advance manifesting for a PrC, you can instead advance an aegis's level 'for the purposes of damage reduction and customization points in the case of the aegis...the character does not gain any other benefits from an increased level (bonus customizations, uses of reconfigure...)'

So...which of these would improve your initiator level if you add the Initiator's Soul customisation to your suit?

----------


## grumblyarcher

Any chance DSP's Malefex is on the table? No worries if not, I just always look for a chance to break it out.

----------


## watupwithdat

I'm curious to see if I can realize a high level Psion concept I've tinkered with before with these epic rules. Wouldn't have minded a tiny bit of Mythic to complement things, as I do like some of the options those open up.

Not too bothered with lacking epic progression for DSP classes, as I figure they should be easy enough to extend (especially the Psion.)

Need to have a look at what psionic epic stuff there is in 3, I suppose.

----------


## QuantumFlash

I would like to request these two feats if possible: spark-of-divinity and emergent-divinity

----------


## Melnibonean

> So at this stage,
> 
> Dread [Nightmare] 20
> Zealot 1
> 
> Cause Nightmare only gets up to 6th level maneuvers, if I start leveling zealot [both CHA based and psionic] ill be able to get access to 9th level maneuvers eventually, and if I stay focused in sleeping goddess, the psionic discipline,  I think it will fit well as a foe debuffer and ally buffer.
> 
> So. Question. Does putting ghost touch on a weapon allow you to attack from the ethereal, if not is there is spell/enchantment that allows that.


From the Ethereal? No. Some creatures can strike from the Ethereal and I know there is at least a rod that allows to strike material plane creatures with spells and Spell like abilities from the Ethereal.




> Is Eternal Apotheosis okay? I would very much like to play a Lich, and this is a hilarious way to make that work. My character will happily pay the gold cost, hell have Craft Wondrous Item for the phylactery, and hell have high enough bonuses to auto-pass all of the checks, so rolling should not be a factor.
> 
> Alternatively, would I be able to use Agent of the Graves capstone to become a Vampire? It would be easy enough to do with the right spells (controlling an intelligent vampire for a few days is easy enough at high levels, enough to become a vampire oneself).


I don't do evil for the PCs as I mentioned in the entry OP (no evil).




> Okay, so I've ended up with another question based on some slightly unclear writing...
> 
> Initiator's Soul, from Path of War: Expanded, turns the aegis into an initiator, using their 'aegis level' as their initiator level.  The only problem is that customisations don't otherwise use aegis level, other than as prerequisites, which makes it very unclear what happens when you take abilities that advance your level for the purpose of customisations.  To make matters more confusing, all the effects that can increase your effective level do so in subtly different ways...
> - The Metaforge PrC increases your aegis level _'for the purposes of damage reduction and customization points. The metaforge does not gain any other benefits from an increased level (bonus customizations, daily uses of reconfigure, power points, etc.). This does, however, allow the metaforge to qualify for customizations dependent on his aegis level, such as the Reach customization.'_
> - Student of the Astral Suit increases your aegis level _'to determine your number of customization points and which customizations you can select for your astral suit.'_
> - And then the Psionic PrC rules mean that whenever you would advance manifesting for a PrC, you can instead advance an aegis's level 'for the purposes of damage reduction and customization points in the case of the aegis...the character does not gain any other benefits from an increased level (bonus customizations, uses of reconfigure...)'
> 
> So...which of these would improve your initiator level if you add the Initiator's Soul customisation to your suit?


As written, your character only gets initiator levels by sticking to Aegis class. But remember that initiator level works like this: Initiator level + Half of your other classes, so technically even if you don't progress your initiator level with anything else, it will keep improving.




> Any chance DSP's Malefex is on the table? No worries if not, I just always look for a chance to break it out.


Will have to say no for this one.




> I'm curious to see if I can realize a high level Psion concept I've tinkered with before with these epic rules. Wouldn't have minded a tiny bit of Mythic to complement things, as I do like some of the options those open up.
> 
> Not too bothered with lacking epic progression for DSP classes, as I figure they should be easy enough to extend (especially the Psion.)
> 
> Need to have a look at what psionic epic stuff there is in 3, I suppose.


Epic Psion stuff is honestly very simple, and even simpler with the Epic Pathfinder version as inspiration.

----------


## Melnibonean

> I would like to request these two feats if possible: spark-of-divinity and emergent-divinity


I would have to say no to this request.

----------


## Llyarden

> As written, your character only gets initiator levels by sticking to Aegis class. But remember that initiator level works like this: Initiator level + Half of your other classes, so technically even if you don't progress your initiator level with anything else, it will keep improving.


That's true, but initiator level on its own is not particularly useful, it's often only stances that have IL-dependent effects.  IL affects the maximum level of maneuver you can learn, but of course the aegis (like all initiating archetypes of non-initiating classes) is capped at what levels of maneuver they can learn by their class level, not their initiator level.

Not a big deal of course, I can just put the customisation points elsewhere, but kinda unfortunate.

----------


## QuantumFlash

Well alright.  On a different note, are we allowed to do item stacking with the +50% extra cost for the additional abilities on an item?

----------


## Kaworu

Hi people ;-) I think I will not be able to make a character sheet, so please, do not wait for me, okay? ;-)

----------


## grumblyarcher

> Will have to say no for this one.


Roger roger, I'll start looking into something else... probably a Psychic Armory Soulknife with something flavorful alongside it.

----------


## droobles

> 1) Bloodforge, I technically didn't add it in the list of available materials. But sure, for this specific instance, I will allow mixed blood trait and the soulknife bonus. It doesn't mean the rest of the bloodforge book is allowed before someone.


So that would mean that altered life and overflowing life are out? I guess I didn't pay much attention to the sources.

----------


## Yas392

WiP Artist Soulknife.

----------


## MagneticDragon

Is it me, or is DSP's Soulknife really, really popular?

It seems to have 3 or 4 different people all making a Soulknife build.

----------


## Thunder999

Soulknife was always a popular idea, DSP just made a version that's actually playable.

----------


## Melnibonean

> Well alright.  On a different note, are we allowed to do item stacking with the +50% extra cost for the additional abilities on an item?


I already answered this question, but in brief, yes.




> Hi people ;-) I think I will not be able to make a character sheet, so please, do not wait for me, okay? ;-)


Alright cya around the forums.




> Roger roger, I'll start looking into something else... probably a Psychic Armory Soulknife with something flavorful alongside it.


Funny enough someone just posted one of those.




> So that would mean that altered life and overflowing life are out? I guess I didn't pay much attention to the sources.


Would have to be more specific from which sources because I know APG has a wand of overflowing life.




> WiP Artist Soulknife.


Like I was saying to Grumblyarcher.




> Is it me, or is DSP's Soulknife really, really popular?
> 
> It seems to have 3 or 4 different people all making a Soulknife build.


Soulknives are popular indeed.

----------


## Athaleon

For what it's worth I don't plan to have any Soulknife on my Awakened Blade. Thinking of going with a Time theme on himif psionics can allow one to transcend physical laws, why not time itself? Liberation from causality itself must surely be the ultimate expression of freedom.

----------


## Llyarden

Meanwhile I _do_ have soulknife on my awakened blade.  Psychic Armoury soulknife, no less.  I guess the one upside is that I have only 3 soulknife levels so hopefully I won't clash too much with other soulknives.

----------


## MagneticDragon

... Okay, so this might be a little cheeky. But, one issue that the Vigilante faces is that it doesn't have any good FCBs. With only the Halfling getting the traditional +1/6 talent, and only social talents.

However, I am playing an Alchemical Scoundrel, who is basically a mini-alchemist, to the extent that I can actually pick up the Extra Discovery Feat. Is there any chance that I might be able to use the Alchemist's FCB of gaining +1/6th of a Discovery? It would really help flesh out my Vigilant's capabilities as Alchemist/Bomber, and I would very much appreciate the added flexibility. If not, I might need to abandon the Dynamic Striker part of the build... which honestly, is not entirely necessary, but I just love the flavour of it, you know?

And secondly, the Vigilante does not gain an 'Extra Vigilante Talent' feat, as the Vigilant talents tend to be stronger than a single feat. They can even give you multipule feats for 1 talent. However, we are now playing in Epic Levels, and Epic Feats are stronger than non-Epic Feats. Can I have 'Extra Vigilante Talent' be an epic feat that requires Vengeance Strike or Past Your Limits (the Vigilante Captstones)?

----------


## grumblyarcher

Damn, alright... second contingency. Telekinetic Gunner and some manner of Legendary Gunslinger.

----------


## grumblyarcher

Wait... double damn, Telekinetic Gunner isn't directly DSP published.

----------


## QuantumFlash

For fun, I've decided to go with a pretty classic wizard.  Plenty of them arcane magics, and a blaster because heck why not.

----------


## Llyarden

Another of my 'how do unclear PrCs work' questions (sorry about all these!) - initiating PrCs don't inherit the base class's number of maneuvers known and readied, but instead use their own advancement tables; how does this work with a class like the mystic that not only has readied but granted maneuvers to contend with as well?  Does it follow the '+1 granted maneuver at every third level' pattern of the mystic, give an extra granted maneuver along with each extra readied maneuver, or just straight up not give any extra granted maneuvers at all?

----------


## watupwithdat

> Another of my 'how do unclear PrCs work' questions (sorry about all these!) - initiating PrCs don't inherit the base class's number of maneuvers known and readied, but instead use their own advancement tables; how does this work with a class like the mystic that not only has readied but granted maneuvers to contend with as well?  Does it follow the '+1 granted maneuver at every third level' pattern of the mystic, give an extra granted maneuver along with each extra readied maneuver, or just straight up not give any extra granted maneuvers at all?


If it works like in 3.5, which I'd assume it would unless DSP devs have said otherwise somewhere, +1 readied should mean +1 granted. Crusader worked like that.

----------


## Duqueen

So, I am going to propose an epic progression for Warlord. No prestige class really complement the class for my idea and the capstone is just too good to pass it up (also, extra feats from FCB made a huge difference).

I will base it on Jesse's document, maybe something like the monk, with only dual boosting gaining more daily uses.

I am just not sure if it should keep ganing more maneuvers known/readied/stances.

----------


## Zarthrax

After some careful  consideration on trying to do a LN necromancer-type, I'm gonna scrap the conduit stuff.

@Melnibonean-

Is the Ioun Angel PrC allowed?

----------


## watupwithdat

Updated character build development for those interested.

I'm currently tinkering with the Cerebremancer prestige class, instead of just straight Psion (telepath, and perhaps dual disciple with something else?), just to try something different. I never seem to touch prestige classes outside of Awakened Blade normally, so why not check it out I figure? I guess Wizard is the only realistic option to pair it with.

If I'm not pleased with the results, Psion 21 is still a possibility.

_(For a while there I was eyeing the aforementioned Awakened Blade, but as like 4 other people were doing the same it's best to go a different route and not gish it up.)_

*Updated update:* not entirely pleased with Cerebremancer, but maybe I'm missing something and can rectify things.

If not it looks like it'll be either Psion (telepath/?) 21 or Psion (telepath/?)/Thrallherd if I feel I want to deal with all the extra bookkeeping cohorts/followers entail. Not sure how effective [mind-affecting] powers will be at epic levels, however.

*Updated update-update:*
Current stubs I'm tinkering with and can't decide what I prefer for my telepath:
a) *Psion 8/Wizard 3/Cerebremancer 10* _(this it is)_
b) Psion 21
c) Psion 11/Thrallherd 10

And if for some reason I decide to not go the Psion route, d) random Razmiran Priest/Pathfinder Savant pretend-to-be-near-divinity-himself.

----------


## Genth

I'd like to progress the Dragon Fury Prestige class out into Epic Levels using the guide for such on page 30 of the Jesse's Epic Pathfinder. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative...s/dragon-fury/)

As a martial, d12 based Prestige Class with Full BAB (and even features that connect to the barbarian) I would like to base the progression off the Epic Barbarian.

It should have the same Prowess and Damage bonus as Epic Barbarian, and get the Bonus Class Feats  (Any Epic Combat Feats) at the same levels as Epic Barb.

Where the Epic Barbarian grants +1 to Trap Sense, Epic Dragon Fury should add +1 to Dragon Fury Defense (They are both defensive bonuses that in the non-epic class grow every 3 levels)

Where the Epic Barbarian grands +1 to the DR, Epic Dragon Fury should add +1 to Dual Fang Focus, as ditto above, they have similar progression.

For Epic Rage, instead have Epic Dragon God's War Dance, choosing from the same bonuses offered by Epic Rage and adding them to the Dragon God's War Dance stance

Instead of Improved Power, have Improved Maneuver (which could be used by any Epic PoW progression?):
He selects any one Maneuver he currently knows (including stances) and applies all of the following improvements that apply:
Once per encounter, the maneuver may be used without expending it.Increase saving throw DC by +1Any numeric bonuses are increased by 50%Reduce the action required to use the maneuver by one step: full round > standard > move > swift > free


For the record, this will be a Warlord (Vanguard Commander) 10/Dragon Fury 11 build, using two Klar for a very vicious and slightly feral fighting style, with some Dragon or something similar based themes

----------


## Duqueen

> I'd like to progress the Dragon Fury Prestige class out into Epic Levels using the guide for such on page 30 of the Jesse's Epic Pathfinder. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative...s/dragon-fury/)
> 
> As a martial, d12 based Prestige Class with Full BAB (and even features that connect to the barbarian) I would like to base the progression off the Epic Barbarian.
> 
> It should have the same Prowess and Damage bonus as Epic Barbarian, and get the Bonus Class Feats  (Any Epic Combat Feats) at the same levels as Epic Barb.
> 
> Where the Epic Barbarian grants +1 to Trap Sense, Epic Dragon Fury should add +1 to Dragon Fury Defense (They are both defensive bonuses that in the non-epic class grow every 3 levels)
> 
> Where the Epic Barbarian grands +1 to the DR, Epic Dragon Fury should add +1 to Dual Fang Focus, as ditto above, they have similar progression.
> ...


nice start, I will steal much of the design, but considering that the Fighter's weapon training stops progressing, I think that general improvements to Attack bonus and damage should not have an infinite progression like that.

Maybe improvements like the ones for the epic ranger combat style would fit better. 

Improved Maneuver is really cool, I was struggling to make something for the maneuvers.

----------


## Yas392

How are we doing soulknife epic progression?

----------


## Genth

> nice start, I will steal much of the design, but considering that the Fighter's weapon training stops progressing, I think that general improvements to Attack bonus and damage should not have an infinite progression like that.


All classes get Prowess and Bonus damage, including the Fighter?

----------


## Lord Foul

Iiiinteresting it seems from my skimming that psionics and path of war are allowed. that's good

I have two character concepts 

one is an elf I had for a wrath of the righteous game that had DM existence failure just before we hit mythic
Elf sorcerer 11/Dragon Disciple 10//Ageis (abarant) 5/Soulknife (high psionics, deadly fist, war soul) 6/metaforge 10 to be the ultimate in build your own dragon.  (taking favored prestige class and prestige spell caster feats to let me actually have 21 caster levels on the arcane side)
Synopsis: Harnarah'Penadixilion (Just call me Hanna) was raised by a black dragon for a father an after the death of her parents.  She grew up under the impression that a dragon was the strongest thing you could be 


Progression: She'll keep taking classes that advance sorcerer casting on the arcane side (probably just plain ol sorcerer) and on the psionic side I'll go for ageis if I'm allowed to work with you on how much customization I get, Soulknife if I can't but can work with you on enchantment bonus, and fighter or bloodrager if neither of those work. I'm easy going

which one I go for will largely be dependent on whether we skew more magical or more martial (both of them are at least moderatly tanky dps arcane casters, but that's where they differ)

the other is also a character from an old game that collapsed due to time constraints on the part of the DM 
Valizia Un'Rama Tiefling Magus (bladebound, possibly other archetypes) 21// Warder (zwihander sentinel) 11/Umbral Blade 10 

Synopsis: Valizia was found as an infant by an order of knights and paladins at the center of a prophetic infernal ritual seemingly intended to bring about the an age of corruption and darkness.   She was found by a group of knights and paladins who interrupted the ritual alongside a large black blade that she ended up inheriting.  She fights to gain the power needed to prevent the prophesy about her bringing in that age of corruption while she tries to find out more about her past.  She learned magic from the black blade and uses it as a massive shield.  
TLDR: 50% hellboy 20% cloud, 10% She-Ra 10% saito (familiar of zero) 10% elric (elric saga)

Progression: Probably more magus on the arcane side, on the initiation side, at least 1 more level of warder, probably 4 levels of it, maybe 9 levels of it for the full 20.  Then moving on to the mage hunter PrC if the game lasts this long

----------


## watupwithdat

> //


This isn't gestalt.

----------


## QuantumFlash

Still a WIP but linking this here for the record. Ulbar the Munavri Wizard  Nothing super fancy, just a good old fashioned blaster wizard.

----------


## Duqueen

> All classes get Prowess and Bonus damage, including the Fighter?


yes, but prowess only works for the iterative attacks and each level you apply to a different attack up to your highest bonus. It is not an increase to all your attacks and does not increase your highest attack bonus.

But not my call, I was just brainstorming. another +3 in 10 levels won't break an epic level game.

----------


## watupwithdat

> Still a WIP but linking this here for the record. Ulbar the Munavri Wizard  Nothing super fancy, just a good old fashioned blaster wizard.


Perhaps a remnant of a previous build, but Ascendant Spell is a mythic feat.

----------


## niw18

@Melnibonean

if not to late I was woundering if you would allow  deadeye hexer legendary class found on ibrary of metofitz

----------


## Genth

> yes, but prowess only works for the iterative attacks and each level you apply to a different attack up to your highest bonus. It is not an increase to all your attacks and does not increase your highest attack bonus.
> 
> But not my call, I was just brainstorming. another +3 in 10 levels won't break an epic level game.


If you weren't talking about Prowess and the damage bonus what were you referring to?

----------


## Lord Foul

> This isn't gestalt.


somehow I missed that.  whoops

----------


## samduke

> Originally Posted by samduke
> 
> 
> Capstones presume one takes a class to a full 20+1 epic or the like to even see the Alternative Capstone Class Features
> questions then
> #1 can a multi-class ECL 20+1 epic gain a Alternative Capstone Class Feature? even if none of their class levels reach level 20
> 
> #2 how do you want to handle the lack of capstone for those that do not get one if answering no to #1
> 
> ...





> 12/8/22
> okay in this instance I have 2 build Ideas
> I will probably go with Idea 1 over 2 for the level Capstone Option though, unless you decide something very interesting for ECL 21 characters - and Can wait NP.


I did not see anything addressing this , So while waiting , I was going to broach the subject of multiple entries in this as previously stated above I had a build that did not get level 20 in a single class and abandond the build about 75% the way done, and went with a single classs build for the capstone effect.

I am asking if you will allow multiple entries by anyone ?

----------


## MagneticDragon

> How are we doing soulknife epic progression?


If I may make a suggestion.

The Soulknife, High Psionics Soulknife, is a Level 4 Manifester that is full BAB. Taking a look at the Ranger and the Paladin, it should have full progression of the damage bonus and Prowess. 

After this, you should continue progression for Psychic Strike Damage Die (Once per four levels, so the next die is at level 23), as well as the Enhanced mind blade progression, with the Maximum Enchantment Bonus immediately going to +6 at level 21, and going up by 1 every 3 levels afterwards. 

Furthermore, you should continue gaining power points: I would say 6 per level until level 23, then it increases to 7 per level until level 27, which is then increases to 8 per level. Gaining 1 additional power known at the 21st level, then 1 per 3 levels after. Additionally, you can now take a feat that lets you gain access to 5th Level Powers when determining your powers known, most likely taken from the Psychic Warrior List. 

This is what I believe forms the base chassis of the Soulknife. There will most likely be levels without progression, so that should be the place where more custom abilities should be implemented. What these are and how they function is something for the Soulknife users to discuss.

----------


## droobles

> If you weren't talking about Prowess and the damage bonus what were you referring to?


Dual fang focus

----------


## QuantumFlash

As a prepared caster I obviously only get a pretty limited number of free spells in my spellbook from leveling.  How should I go about obtaining additional spells? Would I be able to just pay copy prices for some amount of extra spells or do I have to pay for a scroll for each spell as well?

Edit: Also, do we gain access to 3rd party spells and if so from what sources?

----------


## Rokku

Hey *@Melnibonean* I'd just like to get your specific approval for the Machine element for Kineticist, in case it doesn't fit the vibes for the game.

(Related, I wish Android has a kineticist FCB to go with the Machine element, 'cause I'd dig those vibes.)

----------


## Nightraiderx

I'd like to ask for Sublime Warmage,
which is a Magus/Initiator hybrid.

----------


## Genth

Hmm, I think I may have misunderstood something in the Epic book:

If instead of going into an Epic Progression, and you just multiclass, do bonus feats automatically become epic bonus feats? So if you started to take multiclass fighter levels from 21, your fighter bonus feats could be taken from Epic Combat Feats?

Also, do you lose out on any Prowess/Epic Bonus Damage if you multiclass?

----------


## Aleph Null

Sooooo I accepted a new job, meaning I have to plan and execute a cross country move in the span of about a month...again.
I might be able to finish a character but not sure if I will have it done before new years' so don't wait for me, lol.

----------


## Nightraiderx

> Sooooo I accepted a new job, meaning I have to plan and execute a cross country move in the span of about a month...again.
> I might be able to finish a character but not sure if I will have it done before new years' so don't wait for me, lol.


Congrats on the new job regardless though!

----------


## Aleph Null

> Congrats on the new job regardless though!


Thankies

Hopefully I can still get the thing done but...if not hf with game :p

----------


## Chambers

Peacebringer is a misguided bravo that collects the names of his dead foes to stall the arrival of Tomorrow. 
[Ratfolk Unchained Rogue 21 (Hidden Blade | Vexing Dodger)]

Tomorrow is an insatiable monster that will arrive and eat the universe. It doesn't want the universe, it wants the Nezumi, but the Nezumi are so good at hiding that Tomorrow will have to eat everything to make sure it kills all the Nezumi. Peacebringer believes that he can delay the arrival of Tomorrow by feeding it the names of other creatures. It's sad they die, but they would die anyway if Tomorrow catches up with the world, so seeing as how they were going to die anyway at least this way they are helping the Nezumi and isn't that really the best thing they could do with their life? Lots of names hanging about in Nexus, maybe some strange ones that Tomorrow hasn't tasted yet. What's a rat got to lose?

*Spoiler: Peacebringer*
Show

----------


## Kvard51

I've decided to go w/ a Legendary Bard11/Evangelist 10.  Champion of the god(dess) of music.  I wasn't sure if we are using standard PF deities, or a pantheon of your creation (or ours).

Also, do I gain access to Alternate Capstones as a LB?

----------


## QuantumFlash

Capstones are something you gain from 20 levels in a class, not simply for reaching 20 character levels.

----------


## Thunder999

Evangelist actually gives you your class features, so a Bard 11/Evangelist 10 has the class features of a 20th level Bard, which makes the question of capstones less clear. Personally I'd say you do get one.  

Or was it about them having a capstone at all:  
I think you could consider the 20th level performance should count as a capstone to swap out, since that takes the place of Deadly Performance (which is still an option to take) which is the 1pp Bard's capstone.  
Definitely room for GM interpretation though.

----------


## Darius Vibrtrar

Evangelist only has 5 levels and doesn't say anything about giving you bard abilities, just that evangelist counts as bard levels to power up the bard abilities you already have.

----------


## Thunder999

Evangelist is a 10 level PrC from Inner Sea Gods that progresses all class features of your base class at levels 2-10 and gives you accelerated access (mostly irrelevant at such high level) to deific obedience boons.

----------


## Darius Vibrtrar

Oh THAT THING. Yea that'd be some wonky wording and would technically give a capstone ability. 

Weird niche

----------


## Rokku

> Peacebringer is a misguided bravo that collects the names of his dead foes to stall the arrival of Tomorrow. 
> [Ratfolk Unchained Rogue 21 (Hidden Blade | Vexing Dodger)]
> 
> Tomorrow is an insatiable monster that will arrive and eat the universe. It doesn't want the universe, it wants the Nezumi, but the Nezumi are so good at hiding that Tomorrow will have to eat everything to make sure it kills all the Nezumi. Peacebringer believes that he can delay the arrival of Tomorrow by feeding it the names of other creatures. It's sad they die, but they would die anyway if Tomorrow catches up with the world, so seeing as how they were going to die anyway at least this way they are helping the Nezumi and isn't that really the best thing they could do with their life? Lots of names hanging about in Nexus, maybe some strange ones that Tomorrow hasn't tasted yet. What's a rat got to lose?
> 
> *Spoiler: Peacebringer*
> Show


I know an L5R fan when I see one!

----------


## Kvard51

> Evangelist only has 5 levels and doesn't say anything about giving you bard abilities, just that evangelist counts as bard levels to power up the bard abilities you already have.


Evangelist DOES advance bard abilities starting with it's second level.  That being why I am taking my 21st lvl in LBard in order to get full Bard advancement.  So by RAW I would get the standard LB capstone, which is a 20th lvl performance.

----------


## Heavenblade

Character stub: Enlightened drunken master monk of the silver fist 11/psychic fist 1/awakened blade 9
Backstory -  Rashon was a prodigious member of the order of the mithral gauntlets - a group of elite warrior with psionic powers sworn to the defense of the kingdom. As he grew older, he became disillusioned with the order and decided to start something better. He founded the order of the silver tankard, an order of warriors raised from the people, for the people, using a combat style he developed one wobbling step at a time. After years of hard work, he left his warriors to their own devices, and decided to go one last journey - a journey to categorize all ales in the world, from best to worst. That, eventually, lead his pub crawl to the city of legends. He hopes to stay out of trouble, but knows he will get some all the same.

----------


## Armonia13

Still a work in progress, but here is Heru al-Abadi Jalal and his divine Sun Falcon Ammon. Once a human Pharoah in Ancient Osirion, he ruled with an iron fist and great cruelty. Incredibly vain, he like so many others sought out immortality so his tyrannical empire could reign forever. As such made many enemies, even out of those he loved the most. One day, an assassin attempted to kill him in his sleep. He was accustomed to these plots on his life by this point and readily killed the intruder in defense with barely a thought. Unmasking the assailant however, revealed the face of his most beloved Son! Anguished by his loss, he for the first time began to regret his cruelty, and prayed to the Gods for a way to redeem himself. Sarenrae answered his call and instructed him on how to purge the evil that remained in his body. Going through the old rites, he created a Shabti in his image, pouring the small pieces of his soul that remained untarnished into it. The Shabti Heru, now guided by Sarenrae and the Sacred Animal Ammon, travels the world to spread her teachings and to try and redeem the dark heart of his former life.

----------


## Triskavanski

Nero and Nemo
The Kitsune Twins
Nero
Nemo

The two kitsune came to the city of Nexus, under the guise of the human XXXX and their fox familiar. The secret though is the human never existed, and is actually played by the two twins. Nemo typically stays in the human social persona while Nero goes off gallivanting as their vigilante persona. The reason the two have come here...

----------


## JollyChris

> Nero and Nemo
> The Kitsune Twins
> Nero
> Nemo
> 
> The two kitsune came to the city of Nexus, under the guise of the human XXXX and their fox familiar. The secret though is the human never existed, and is actually played by the two twins. Nemo typically stays in the human social persona while Nero goes off gallivanting as their vigilante persona. The reason the two have come here...


Where is the extra +5 to your leadership score coming from? Cos you need Epic leadership and a 28 score to get a cohort of level 19 and all i can see right now is 23 (lvl + cha mod). Otherwise the max level for cohorts is 17.

----------


## Triskavanski

> Where is the extra +5 to your leadership score coming from? Cos you need Epic leadership and a 28 score to get a cohort of level 19 and all i can see right now is 23 (lvl + cha mod). Otherwise the max level for cohorts is 17.


It was dropped to 17 in stats, but it was not adjusted in the top fields when I had re-read the feat again and realized the basic feat only goes up to 17
It may raise back to 19, cause the score is easy but I haven't taken the feat (yet).

----------


## JollyChris

> It was dropped to 17 in stats, but not at the the top fields... currently.


My mistake, sorry i missed that.

----------


## Yas392

> If I may make a suggestion.
> 
> The Soulknife, High Psionics Soulknife, is a Level 4 Manifester that is full BAB. Taking a look at the Ranger and the Paladin, it should have full progression of the damage bonus and Prowess. 
> 
> After this, you should continue progression for Psychic Strike Damage Die (Once per four levels, so the next die is at level 23), as well as the Enhanced mind blade progression, with the Maximum Enchantment Bonus immediately going to +6 at level 21, and going up by 1 every 3 levels afterwards. 
> 
> Furthermore, you should continue gaining power points: I would say 6 per level until level 23, then it increases to 7 per level until level 27, which is then increases to 8 per level. Gaining 1 additional power known at the 21st level, then 1 per 3 levels after. Additionally, you can now take a feat that lets you gain access to 5th Level Powers when determining your powers known, most likely taken from the Psychic Warrior List. 
> 
> This is what I believe forms the base chassis of the Soulknife. There will most likely be levels without progression, so that should be the place where more custom abilities should be implemented. What these are and how they function is something for the Soulknife users to discuss.


3.5 already has a chassis for epic soulknife and epic psionic feats that needs minor tweaking. I believe all previous features should progress and mindblade should gain the ability to bypass epic damage reduction. Just waiting to see DM's vision of the epic progression.

----------


## Da'Shain

Presenting Sunda, erstwhile privateer captain who's traveled to Nexus as she feels middle age approaching and wants to travel to exotic new places to recapture the feelings of mystery and excitement from her youthful flight from the Darklands.  She is a Warlord (Privateer) 20/Legendary Monk (Scaled Fist/Sohei/Combusion Knuckle) 1, whose role is, well, Warlord, being a two-gun desperado capable of dishing out serious hurt while also using her warlord's presences and maneuvers to debuff enemies and buff allies with temp HP, morale/competence bonuses, and even extra actions.

*Spoiler: Sundauma Zemarpakis, Retired Captain*
Show



A maverick who dreamed of the horizon before ever seeing the sky, Sundauma Zemarpakis was born and raised to be a warrior-priestess, but found the strictures and petty backbiting of life in the drow underworld equal parts frustrating and boring.  She seized the first chance she got, a hunting expedition to the upper caves, to break free and set off on her own into the bright and mysterious outside world.  Picked up by a passing ship whose "merchant" captain hoped to woo her, she instead ended up killing him for his venality and claiming his berth for her own.  As time went on the hard martial edges drilled into her softened and she became a true free captain, leading her crew on ventures fair and foul but never letting go her wanderlust.  Her ship, the Nakaya, entered into myth when she agreed to ferry a band of heroes into the Eye of Abendego to slay Ekricze, the Storm Giant King, where Sunda herself was instrumental in the final battle.  She traveled the world over with them for decades, but as time passed and each of the shorter-lived races retired from the heroic life at sea, she grew restless once more.  Turning over the Nakaya to her first mate Luthien, she went in search of the next horizon, a journey she undertook alone in remembrance of her youth.  Her road passed through her old adventuring buddies, retired shipmates, and mystical contacts made over the years, and ended up at the planar wharf in Nexus, where she took a satisfied breath of non-Material air and sauntered off in search of a good time ...


If the Drow Noble is actually available (since it is on the linked page from the Big 16) then I will gladly build her as one, but I'm assuming that is not intended so I built her as a regular Drow.  Most of the Noble's abilities can be replicated by certain maneuvers anyway.  But dose states and dat SR, dough!

----------


## Chambers

> I know an L5R fan when I see one!


Yep, guilty as charged.  :Small Smile: 

*Melnibonean*

I'm taking the _With This Sword_ alternative capstone to turn his dagger into an artifact. The only ability I know that I want for sure on it right now is the Interfering special ability. Just wanted to give you a heads up in case you have any guidance or rules for building the artifact.

----------


## MagneticDragon

> 3.5 already has a chassis for epic soulknife and epic psionic feats that needs minor tweaking. I believe all previous features should progress and mindblade should gain the ability to bypass epic damage reduction. Just waiting to see DM's vision of the epic progression.


Yes well. If you look at the 3.5 Epic Soulknife. You would see that it progresses Psychic Strike Die and the Enchanted Mindblade. Additionally, every class in Epic Pathfinder is getting prowess and a damage boost, which is what I suggested to be added.

Or in other words. All I did was take the chassis and make minor tweaking in order to fit the Epic Pathfinder formulae, and all it needs is an Epic class feature to round it off.

----------


## Triskavanski

Putting together things for the vigilante epic progression and a bit of feat support for it too. 




> *Legendary Vigilante* 
> *Prerequisite:* Level 21 Vigilante 
> You gain an additional Vigilante talent.
> 
> *Special:* This can be taken multiple times granting a new talent each time.


Legendary games has the non-epic feat for social talents. 


Class wise


*Epic Vigilante*

Normally uses the Prowess/damage bonus of Rogue

*Specialization:* 
*Avenger* - Uses the prowess of Fighter instead 
*Stalker* - Continues to gain dice in hidden strike 
*Warlock* - Continues gaining +1 damage, can gain new elements every six levels, but now in epic levels can select sonic, force, positive, negative

----------


## samduke

anyone else notice the OP/Gm has been absent for several days ?

----------


## Rokku

> anyone else notice the OP/Gm has been absent for several days ?


Yeah, it's why I've just been waiting to see if they show back up rather than diving into a character.

----------


## Triskavanski

I'm still going to try to work out stuff for a epic level vigilante at least. But this was expected so far.

----------


## Duqueen

Well, here is the crunch for *Baller, the Bold*, straight Warlord (Bushi, Privateer) 21.

I will finish the background if the GM shows up again.

----------


## watupwithdat

> Yeah, it's why I've just been waiting to see if they show back up rather than diving into a character.


I'm basically taking the opportunity to experiment with builds in the meanwhile. Will likely have some use of the lessons learned in the future in any case.

----------


## Genth

> Yeah, it's why I've just been waiting to see if they show back up rather than diving into a character.


I'm waiting for some clarification on multiclassing and epics, to clarify what exactly we lose out on if we multiclass instead of take Epic levels. 

Like if you lose out on everything, Prowess, Damage Bonus, no Epic Feats, then it's very much not worth it. But if it's just the specific Epic Class Features and you can still select Epic feats/get prowess etc then it's worth multiclassing

----------


## watupwithdat

> I'm waiting for some clarification on multiclassing and epics, to clarify what exactly we lose out on if we multiclass instead of take Epic levels. 
> 
> Like if you lose out on everything, Prowess, Damage Bonus, no Epic Feats, then it's very much not worth it. But if it's just the specific Epic Class Features and you can still select Epic feats/get prowess etc then it's worth multiclassing


It basically works as in 3.5. Epic feats are just gained from character levels and epic class levels.

There's also this from the document on page 30:



> Multiclass characters also do not gain the prowess or epic damage bonuses or any epic class features of the chosen class.

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## Darius Vibrtrar

Nightmare Dread


Hes a work in progress, but heres what I got so far

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## Genth

> It basically works as in 3.5. Epic feats are just gained from character levels and epic class levels.
> 
> There's also this from the document on page 30:


Except there's also a section saying that bonus feats from multiclassed epic characters are also eligible for Epic feats, explicitly mentioning fighter for example.

But yeah if you miss out on Prowess and Epic Damage bonus I'm going to have to get my Epic Dragon Fury over the line.

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## MagneticDragon

I mean, a small damage bonus and a small accuracy bonus to your iterative attacks are not exactly the most enticing or engaging class features.

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## Genth

> I mean, a small damage bonus and a small accuracy bonus to your iterative attacks are not exactly the most enticing or engaging class features.


For one level no. Over 10 levels it can be the difference between a full BAB character and a half BAB character. Plus if you are locked out of Epic Feats by multiclassing its an even bigger gap.

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## MagneticDragon

You are not locked out of Epic Feats by multiclassing. As soon as you reach Level 21, you gain access to Epic Feats.

Now, you might not get _bonus_ epic feats as the Epic Class Progressions do. And personally, over 10 levels, I highly doubt the damage bonus or proweress at that significant either. As we are dealing with Epic levels and it would be no difficulty at all to boost both attack and damage rolls. But, the epic bonus feats can be worth picking up for certain.

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## Starmage21

Is there a character table yet? I could be interested in an Arcanist 21.

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## Triskavanski

> You are not locked out of Epic Feats by multiclassing. As soon as you reach Level 21, you gain access to Epic Feats.
> 
> Now, you might not get _bonus_ epic feats as the Epic Class Progressions do. And personally, over 10 levels, I highly doubt the damage bonus or proweress at that significant either. As we are dealing with Epic levels and it would be no difficulty at all to boost both attack and damage rolls. But, the epic bonus feats can be worth picking up for certain.


Every point is a 5% increase to success chances. For ones that get+10 over ten levels that is a 50% chance of success. 

I think the best way to handle it would be to use epic progression of the lowest progression class or something similar. 




> Is there a character table yet? I could be interested in an Arcanist 21.


At the moment its unknown if there is even a GM.

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## samduke

The OP/Gm is MIA
Melnibonean
Join Date 2022-11-19
Last Activity 2022-12-09

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## MagneticDragon

> Every point is a 5% increase to success chances. For ones that get+10 over ten levels that is a 50% chance of success. 
> 
> I think the best way to handle it would be to use epic progression of the lowest progression class or something similar.


Well, if you want to discuss this mathematically. The attack bonus only applies to iterative attacks, and only _one_ iterative attack. Considering that you are making 4-6 attacks when you make a full-attack action (not including TWFing for simplicities sake), a potential 50% chance to hit with _one_ attack is not as strong as a 15% increased chance to hit with _all_ the attacks you make. 

Additionally, this is still restricted to just full-attack actions. If you build around it, you can spam it out round after round, sure. But not every martial class wants to do that, especially initiators.

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## Starmage21

> The OP/Gm is MIA
> Melnibonean
> Join Date 2022-11-19
> Last Activity 2022-12-09


Stormbringer must've eaten his soul.

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## JollyChris

Since this one seems dead i made another thread here to try and get another game going.

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