# Forum > Play-by-Post Games > Message Board Games > Structured Games >  [WW/Mafia] Harem Comedy: "Busted!" Season One

## AvatarVecna

*Spoiler: Original Recruitment Post*
Show

*"Busted!" Trailer*_

[The sun rising over the bustling city of Seattle. A light mist coats the busy city. The camera slowly drifts down until a skyscraper blocks its view of most other buildings. The camera falls faster and faster until it arrives at ground level and stops. There's a hairy man with a beautiful smile selling breakfast bratwursts, some kids playing tag on the sidewalk, and a young woman reading the newspaper on a bench. She's circling bits in the paper with red ink as she reads.]

"My name is Cassie Arthurs. And I'm gonna be the greatest journalist the world has ever seen."

[The scene changes. Cassie is chasing a winged girl down the street.]

"Today is my first day of college. And while classes are keeping me busy, I've got stories to find, scandals to uncover, mysteries to solve!"

[The scene changes. Cassie is confronting a hulking figure held together by stitches.]

"It's a tough job sometimes, especially since I'm just me. No magic, no supernatural powers. I'm just human, but that's okay."

[The scene changes. Cassie is perched on a rooftop, taking photos of two shady folks meeting in the park on the other side of the street.]

"I've got my wits, and I've got my friends. That's all I need to get the job done."

[The scene changes. A man in a bigfoot suit is hanging upside down wrapped in chains, surrounded by college kids. Cassie pulls the rubber mask off, and everybody gasps as his visage is revealed.]

"These four years will be the adventure of a lifetime!"_



Welcome to the first season of "Busted!", a harem comedy dating show where the lot of you attempt to woo the cunning Cassie Arthurs, detective extraordinaire! Solving mysteries, sharing secrets, sabotaging competitors, and making friends along the way! Unfortunately, some of your romantic rivals have formed a secret alliance to get the rest of you out of the way. Be it mean pranks, sniper bullets, or making you so unlikable you get written out of the show...whatever it takes to get one step closer to their one true love! Best of luck finding them before they find you~

*Spoiler: Rules*
Show

*Basic Mechanics*
This is a game of Werewolf/Mafia. It functions _somewhat_ like "Among Us", if you are more familiar with that game.

Prior to the game starting, I will randomly assign roles to players from the lists below. The role you receive will define your win condition and what powers you have (if any). If you are a member of the scum team, you will start the game in secret contact with other members of scum team via a group QT, which you can use to discuss strategy without being discovered.

The game will start on Episode 1-A; this will last 72 hours, while subsequent A Phases will last 48 hours. During any A Phase, all players can vote for who they wish to "lynch" (remove from the game) that phase. Your vote is not set in stone once cast, and you can recast your vote at any time (or even unvote entirely), provided that the phase has not ended. To cast your vote, please *bold and color in red* the name of the person you wish to vote. It doesn't have to be their forum name proper, or some official "I vote [name]", as long as it's recognizable who you're voting and the formatting has been done.




> I would like to vote *AvatarVecna*





> *AV* is being pretty sus right now





> Last night I scried *Vecna* as a wolf


At the end of the A Phase, I'll tally votes, and declare how many votes each wagon received. Whichever wagon has the most votes is lynched and can no longer participate in the game publicly or privately (except for Dead Chat, where they can talk with me and anybody else who is already dead). I will then inform the other players of that person's role and alignment. If there was a tie between who had the most votes, the tie will be resolved randomly.

After an A Phase ends, the game will shift to the B Phase (e.g "Episode 1-B); all B Phases will last 24 hours. If you possess a power that lets you target somebody during the B Phase, this is the time to use it. During this time, the scum team will be able to select a player to be killed (as well as using whatever other powers they might have as well). After a B Phase ends, the game will shift to the A Phase once more.

This cycle will repeat until one of two things happens: either all members of one team or the other is eliminated, or the elimination of all members of one team is inevitable. For example, if you get to an A Phase with 7 players left (3 town, 4 scum), town has basically already lost, and so a Mercy Rule will be invoked to call the game early instead of making everybody play through the next 120 hours.

*Private Communication*

This game will make use of a Discord server, linked here. Each person has a private personal channel, which will not be shared with anyone else even after game has ended. You will not be allowed to share this personal channel with anyone else. This channel will contain your role name, alignment, and powers (if any). There will be some measure of private communication this game, but it will be limited in a sense. This is to make sure that a good deal of the actual gameplay is taking place in the forum, rather than in private chats.

*Narrator Confirmation*

Narrator confirmation of things will be limited, but the narrator will not lie to you; if you are told a thing by the narrator (such as a death reveal, or an answer on a power interaction), it will be the truth. With that being said:

1) There will be no powers that screw with vote totals in this game. The process and results of the lynch shall be sacred and public.

2) There is a bastard mechanic this game. I will not specify what it is until after game.

3) The narrator is an arbiter, not a participator or a competitor. Targeting them with powers or lynches will accomplish nothing mechanically.

*Roles*

From a certain perspective, this will be a fairly typical game of WW/Mafia. There's a few real power roles, which will be a bit stronger/weirder than they are in a more typical, and then there will what the community refers to as "Vanillagers". Vanillagers have the power to create private chats (or rather, to request that I create private chats). There are many character archetypes that can show up in a show like this, but only so many that will definitely be present in this game. I'll leave it unspecified which ones made it in. However, I will say: I make no promises that a given archetype will be connected with a given alignment or power. It might be, it might not, depends on my mood.


Player List:
Xihirli3SecondCultistAleph NullBatcathatbladescapeBook WombatCazeroIllvenJeenLeenLady SerpentineLet'sGetKrakenMurskaPersolusSnowblazeTaffimaiXumtiilZelphas

Spectating:
CaoimhinTheCapegac3Rogan



*Game not starting yet*

Living Player List:
Xihirli Died N1 as *Vigilante Girl*3SecondCultist Died D3 as *Geek Girl*Aleph Null Died D1 as *Otaku Girl*BatcathatbladescapeBook Wombat Died N4 as *Pervert Girl*CazeroIllvenJeenLeen Died N4 as *Clumsy Girl*Lady SerpentineLet'sGetKrakenMurskaPersolus Died D2 as *Sorority Girl*Snowblaze Died N1 as *Theatre Girl*Taffimai Died N2 as *Werewolf Girl*Xumtiil Died D4 as *Delinquent Girl*Zelphas

Discord Link for archival purposes

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## AvatarVecna

*Episode 1-A Ends In ~72 Hours*

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## 3SecondCultist

Let's see, this is going to be a fun one...

I think a vote for Snowblaze is in order for the SOD. She made it to F3 last game - and was scum, to boot - both of which I find entirely unacceptable. On top of the fact that I wanted to build a case against her but real-life intervened, and now here we are.

- - - Updated - - -

(This is not a serious vote, in case that wasn't clear)

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## Zelphas

I will begin the thread (unless sniped) by, unfortunately, being a poor role model and voting via random dice roll.

I rolled an 8, so *Ilven* is getting my vote for the moment.

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## 3SecondCultist

I mean, I'm putting a real vote here but have absolutely zero intention of actually leaving it until EoD.

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## Xihirli

Protagonist-Kun, I think 3SecondCultist is here for all the wrong reasons. I don't like the way she's looking at you.
I don't think you should talk to her anymore.

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## 3SecondCultist

> Protagonist-Kun, I think 3SecondCultist is here for all the wrong reasons. I don't like the way she's looking at you.
> I don't think you should talk to her anymore.


*adjusts glasses*

". . ."

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## Lady Serpentine

I was going to put a vote on Illven as a welcome to the game. 

But *Zelphas* got there first and it wasn't even to greet the new person!

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## Persolus

Hello everyone! I'm Persolus and think that you shouldn't kill me first round!

yeah yeah, i, like, _totally_ don't dig Lady Serpentine's vibes
she's like completely not chill at all, even _google_ thinks she's weird
Cass - i can call you cass right? good - you should hang out with me instead

*Lady Serpentine*, by order of the allmighty Google Random Number Generator, you are my start-off vote.

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## Batcathat

I was wrong about *bladescape* being a wolf last game, maybe I was just a game early?

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## Snowblaze

*Let'sGetKraken*, since I've needed him dead every game we've played together.

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## Cazero

*Book Wombat* is too nerdy for this.

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## Batcathat

> *Book Wombat* is too nerdy for this.


Looks like I was right, you _are_ the jock of the story.  :Small Tongue:

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## Cazero

> Looks like I was right, you _are_ the jock of the story.


Oh-em-gee, stop trying to solve stuff like that.
It's only cute when Cassie does it.

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## Taffimai

_The Feather

Cassie flew in through the open window
and covered my mangled body with her wing

torn and tortured like my turbid soul
finally formed as I feel
yet caressed by her gentle smile

that dream was everything
and even as I slept 
I cried
for the dawn that would surely steal

not even sneaking
but barge in
with the clamour
of breakfast radio

my Cassie
no not mine
a blanket against the world
as snow upon a landscape
marred by apathy and scorn
of selfish passers-by

the alarm glares and sears
and quietly she melts
I feel her loss even
before I dare to look

yet there it is
beside me on my pillow
_

Let's start with *Xumtiil*, that worked out well last game  :Small Big Grin:

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## Persolus

> _The Feather
> 
> Cassie flew in through the open window
> and covered my mangled body with her wing
> 
> torn and tortured like my turbid soul
> finally formed as I feel
> yet caressed by her gentle smile
> 
> ...


ughhh, a poem? you're always so extra. cassie's got _far_ better things to do than, like, read

this is freaking awesome and I love it. ... 50% chance it's going to end up hiding a secret message, but either way, amazing.

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## Batcathat

> ughhh, a poem? you're always so extra. cassie's got _far_ better things to do than, like, read
> 
> this is freaking awesome and I love it. ... 50% chance it's going to end up hiding a secret message, but either way, amazing.


Look hard enough and it's quite obvious.  :Small Wink: 




> _The Feather
> 
> Cassie flew in through the open window
> and covered my mangled body with her wing
> 
> torn and tortured like my turbid soul
> finally formed as I feel
> yet caressed by her gentle smile
> 
> ...


(In case anyone's unsure: no, this accusation is in no way serious.  :Small Tongue: ) 

- - - Updated - - -

Very nice poem, though. But surely Cassie is above falling for honeyed words (everyone knows women always falls for sarcastic quips... right?)

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## Book Wombat

*Snowblaze*, your time has come (maybe)!

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## Xumtiil

Jack Sprat could eat no fat
and *Jeen* could eat no *Leen*
My poetry's awesome
And if you disagree you're mean.




> Protagonist-Kun, I think 3SecondCultist is here for all the wrong reasons. I don't like the way she's looking at you.
> I don't think you should talk to her anymore.


Bold your vote, imouto-sama.

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## Murska

Oh! We're doing poetry? That's fun! Let me think...

_The time is here once more
to fight that same old war
The battlefield of love
So cruel, the sky above

Raise arms and lift your voice 
to exult and rejoice
With smiles so bright and wide
and fears so masked by pride

Your heart a drummer's beat
For life is short yet sweet
To give of what you get
partake in the roulette

Lay down with broken hearts
torn up with Cupid's darts
Take up the game again
this dance you can't abstain
Soon everything will end
though never break nor bend
Onward to fields so hallow
Swift death, and graves shallow_


Anyway, I was going to third-vote Snow but *3SecondCultist*'s opening seems really awkward and defensive. A disclaimer at the bottom and then another message just to make sure no-one thinks they're seriously voting in the first post of day 1? Why all the stress - perhaps you should take a rest.

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## Snowblaze

Right. Yes. Cool setting, should RP.

_Honestly? None of these fools understood what Cassie really wanted. Not sappy poetry and certainly not jockiness. No, she needed a companion. Someone brave enough and smart enough to follow her into adventure without a second thought. 

The girl who went by Snow knew that she was that person. If Cassie would only give her a chance to prove it. And if not... well, then she'd just have to make her own chance._

(This character will probably drive me insane if I keep up the RP.)

Anyway, seconding Murska's opinion on 3SC (though I may be biased since OMGUS + glad I'm not being wagoned properly). 

Snowblaze 2: 3SecondCultist, Book Wombat 
3SecondCultist 2: Xihirli, Murska
Ilven 1: Zelphas 
Zelphas 1: Lady Serpentine 
bladescape 1: Batcathat
Let'sGetKraken 1: Snowblaze 
Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus 
Xumtiil 1: Taffimai 
JeenLeen 1: Xumtiil 
Book Wombat 1: Cazero.

No posts: bladescape, JeenLeen, Ilven, Aleph Null, Let'sGetKraken 

Will wait for more people to check in before serious votes.

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## bladescape

_Imagine, if you would, that a perfect gem were to be surrounded by imperfections. Imagine again that these imperfections stylised themselves as her match. That, you must understand, is how Cassie stood amongst these drivel who consider themselves to be even barely near her. None of them deserved the right. Nor even the possibility.

The one known as Blade flipped their hair, careful to brush the blue highlights evenly through their bangs. They would show them. They would show them all. And when they stood upon the pinnacle with their true beloved beside them?

Then the rest would understand how they never stood a chance!

Turning around to admire themselves, Blade fantasized over how romantic their first meeting would be.

No one told them that they would need to go outside to meet someone._

(*Murska*.)

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## Aleph Null

_Wow, this is just like that one time on Chairem Anime where everyone was trying to figure out who killed Lamp-Senpai, and then it turned out it was Refrigerator-Senpai all along! Except...Cassie is much more amazing and wonderful than Tomoko-chan ever was, let alone her daughter Bomoko or her grand-daughter Gromoko. So I'm sure she'll figure out who's here lurking before it's too late!_

Uhm, I'm not really gonna do the whole random voting thing, since according to my calculations there's a far greater chance that my finger points at an innocent, but there are two current "wagons" being built. Cases exist for both sides...on the one hand, Snow mentioned amogus [yes I'm aware that OMGUS means "OMG u suck" but memes ok] which, in this context, is what would be called "cringe." But on the other hand 3SC's posts _were_ extremely suspicious (as some would say, "sus," except we're not 12-year-olds).

I'm just going to go with my gut reaction to *Murska*'s deep-reading and say that whether or not Snow is actually scum (I'm leaning toward a no, but it's impossible to say) that this seemed a bit too eager for my tastes. EDIT: Not that I'm siding with 3SC either, since we don't have enough information about that either.
(God I need to learn to use the preview feature. Colors are hard)

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## Snowblaze

> Uhm, I'm not really gonna do the whole random voting thing, since according to my calculations there's a far greater chance that my finger points at an innocent, but there are two current "wagons" being built. Cases exist for both sides...on the one hand, Snow mentioned amogus [yes I'm aware that OMGUS means "OMG u suck" but memes ok] which, in this context, is what would be called "cringe." But on the other hand 3SC's posts _were_ extremely suspicious (as some would say, "sus," except we're not 12-year-olds).
> 
> I'm just going to go with my gut reaction to *Murska*'s deep-reading and say that whether or not Snow is actually scum (I'm leaning toward a no, but it's impossible to say) that this seemed a bit too eager for my tastes. EDIT: Not that I'm siding with 3SC either, since we don't have enough information about that either.
> (God I need to learn to use the preview feature. Colors are hard)


Don't really get the logic here - if you agree that 3SC is "extremely suspicious" then why is Murska voting for him suspicious?

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## 3SecondCultist

> Anyway, I was going to third-vote Snow but *3SecondCultist*'s opening seems really awkward and defensive. A disclaimer at the bottom and then another message just to make sure no-one thinks they're seriously voting in the first post of day 1? Why all the stress - perhaps you should take a rest.


No no no! This is the part of the movie where nobody really says what they mean. Its the hook, the inciting incident. The first body hasnt dropped, which means the masks are still on. There are angels and demons on both sides of the dance floor, cant you see?




> (In case anyone's unsure: no, this accusation is in no way serious. )


Also - and I cant be the only one to have noticed this - but when another contender goes ahead and makes the same message, that isnt considered suspicious? Come on. If youre going to play by the rules of the genre, then _play by the rules_. So disappointing.

(Seriously though, I did a joke randvote and now am just trying to adjust to actual RP, plus BCH made literally the same post as me. Dont see why Im getting legitimately sussed for this)

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## Batcathat

> (Seriously though, I did a joke randvote and now am just trying to adjust to actual RP, plus BCH made literally the same post as me. Dont see why Im getting legitimately sussed for this)


Exactly the same feels like an exaggeration, I jokingly claimed to have found some "evidence" and wanted to make sure no one thought I was being serious, you made a jokey placeholder vote (something almost all of us do literally every game) and felt the need to comment on that fact not once but twice. That said, it's not exactly a smoking gun even by D1 standards, so I'm not really sure who I find the most suspicious (if anyone, townies tearing into each other isn't exactly unheard of).

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## Let'sGetKraken

> *Let'sGetKraken*, since I've needed him dead every game we've played together.


_Ah, my Rival. We were friends until the unfortunate incident with the ouija board tore us apart, and we've been frenemies 
ever since. The incident with the gecko and the graveyard was the nail in the coffin. Could winning Cassie's affections be enough to bring us together again and repair our damaged friendship?

Probably not._ 

*Snowblaze.*

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## 3SecondCultist

> Exactly the same feels like an exaggeration, I jokingly claimed to have found some "evidence" and wanted to make sure no one thought I was being serious, you made a jokey placeholder vote (something almost all of us do literally every game) and felt the need to comment on that fact not once but twice. That said, it's not exactly a smoking gun even by D1 standards, so I'm not really sure who I find the most suspicious (if anyone, townies tearing into each other isn't exactly unheard of).


Yes, I suppose that is fair. Maybe I messed up, but I never claimed to be perfect. Im still trying to see through these darn glasses

Anyhow. What conclusions do you come to, if any, about our fair Bladescapes recent vote for the murky-kun? I do not see rhyme or reason for it.

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## Zelphas

Your poems are due by the end of the day, everyone; right now, freeform is fine, just get out what you're thinking and feeling. Nothing too personal, though; _someone_ has to read all of these works when you hand them in, you know.

I don't like being on a new player for too long after the randvote (I should've double-checked that when I rolled), so reroll until more votes and information are in!

I rolled a 7... is *Cazero* new? If so, I'll plan to swap again soon enough.

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## Batcathat

> Anyhow. What conclusions do you come to, if any, about our fair Bladescapes recent vote for the murky-kun? I do not see rhyme or reason for it.[/COLOR]


Not much, other than the fact that blade haven't been secretly replaced by some talkative doppelganger. Any reason you asked about blade in particular?

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## 3SecondCultist

> Not much, other than the fact that blade haven't been secretly replaced by some talkative doppelganger. Any reason you asked about blade in particular?


I cant be certain, but when it is pointing at someones chest, The Blade Itself is a question unposed. And any good storyteller knows not to leave a sword hanging if they dont plan to eventually use it

For now this is simple curiosity. The day is still too early to tell if anything substantial will come of our edgy friends movements, if there is a later explanation, or if they change course entirely.

- - - Updated - - -




> I rolled a 7... is *Cazero* new? If so, I'll plan to swap again soon enough.


I believe he is relatively new to this place, if not these games in a more general sense. Whether that qualifies for another roll of the dice is entirely up to you.

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## Aleph Null

> Don't really get the logic here - if you agree that 3SC is "extremely suspicious" then why is Murska voting for him suspicious?


I meant to say that the reply to Xihirli's post was suspicious. As I interpreted it, though, Murska was not basing the vote on that post, but rather on the intro post that was later edited. I found the fact that Murska jumped on the post edit as being scummy more suspicious than the 3SC reply to Xihirli, and we each only get one vote.

I also posted my intro first thing in the morning before I had my coffee and thus am prone to mis-wording my posts that early in the day. Welp.


In all honesty I'm probably overthinking this, but since this is D1, and we have basically no information to go by, we sort of have to overthink it.

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## Illven

Beginning post.

3secondcultist started us off. Almost like they have a guilty conscience.

Cassie, I don't think you should hang around 3secondcultist anymore. 

Vote for *3secondcultist*

- - - Updated - - -

Beginning post.

3secondcultist started us off. Almost like they have a guilty conscience.

Cassie, I don't think you should hang around 3secondcultist anymore. 

Vote for *3secondcultist*

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## Xumtiil

> Beginning post.
> 
> 3secondcultist started us off. Almost like they have a guilty conscience.
> 
> Cassie, I don't think you should hang around 3secondcultist anymore. 
> 
> Vote for 3secondcultist
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


I am drunk or I see double
Bold your vote
Or you're in trouble

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## Illven

Actually you are not drunk, I have no idea why it doubled though.

Thank you for the correction.

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## Batcathat

> Actually you are not drunk, I have no idea why it doubled though.


I've been getting a worrying amount of "server is too busy" errors today, so I suspect the forums might not feeling well, which might explain it. 

As for the double posts merging into one, that's a function of the Structured games forum that you might not be familiar with. Post twice in a row within some limit (30 minutes, I think) and they're merged together.

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## Taffimai

*Snow 3*: Cultist, Wombat, Kraken, 
*Cultist 3*: (Xihirli), Murska, Illven, 
*Zelphas 1*: Serpentine, 
*Serpentine 1*: Persolus, 
*Bladescape 1*: Batcathat, 
*Kraken 2*: Snow, Taffimai
*Wombat 1*: Cazero, 
*JeenLeen 1*: Xumtiil, 
*Murska 2*: Bladescape, Aleph, 
*Cazero 1*: Zelphas, 

Not voting: JeenLeen

- - - Updated - - -

Xihirli is between brackets because she hasn't bolded her vote yet but I'm sure she will.

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## Xumtiil

Not that I mind the reprieve
But if you don't mind me askin'
Why did your vote on me leave
and land on Kraken?

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## Murska

> I meant to say that the reply to Xihirli's post was suspicious. As I interpreted it, though, Murska was not basing the vote on that post, but rather on the intro post that was later edited. I found the fact that Murska jumped on the post edit as being scummy more suspicious than the 3SC reply to Xihirli, and we each only get one vote.
> 
> I also posted my intro first thing in the morning before I had my coffee and thus am prone to mis-wording my posts that early in the day. Welp.
> 
> 
> In all honesty I'm probably overthinking this, but since this is D1, and we have basically no information to go by, we sort of have to overthink it.


You're saying that this post:




> *adjusts glasses*
> 
> ". . ."


is more suspicious than the first two? What?

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## Lady Serpentine

We still have a bit in the day, particularly with a probable extension. 

So, sure, let's ramp up the pressure on *3SecondCultist*. 

What're your top three reads? Anything you want to say about yourself?

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## Taffimai

> Not that I mind the reprieve
> But if you don't mind me askin'
> Why did your vote on me leave
> and land on Kraken?


The Murska and Cultist wagons have reasoning behind them that are ~fine for D1, but I don't know who I'd pick between them yet (and the day is still long). Snow's wagon is entirely made up of random votes so it should go away (also because Snow just lost a hard-fought game and there are too many people who meme vote her D1 so she always gets wagoned).

Between the three Snow voters Cultist is already a wagon, Wombat is unlikely to change his vote until much later (and was the N1 last game), so Kraken gets the pressure vote.

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## AvatarVecna

> We still have a bit in the day, particularly with a probable extension. 
> 
> So, sure, let's ramp up the pressure on *3SecondCultist*. 
> 
> What're your top three reads? Anything you want to say about yourself?


I mean for starters, we're ~18 hours into a ~72 hour day, and that's if the forum gets its crap together and no extension is necessary.

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## 3SecondCultist

> We still have a bit in the day, particularly with a probable extension. 
> 
> So, sure, let's ramp up the pressure on *3SecondCultist*. 
> 
> What're your top three reads? Anything you want to say about yourself?


I see. So this is the part where an innocent heroine gets threatened by the paranoid masses. I suppose all this it fits the mold for my particular kind of Truth, so its not like this is without narrative precedent.

As for my reads, well thats obvious. Not much, yet. We arent even a third of the way through D1, so my reads will be not much of substance beyond gutpings. 

I have pointed out a look at Blade, which bears some looking into. My post for Snow was a joke; she is reading fairly town to me right now, but then again she always _reads_ town (and she certainly was not last game). I have learned to not townread her too quickly. I dont scumread Murska for OMGUS reasons, and I think I did mess up initially and get myself wagoned, though I maintain that this is a really stupid reason to wagon someone.

You, though? I do kind of scumread you. I think putting the pressure on me would be a valid tactic later in the day, where there have been enough posts for people to actually develop reads. At this point, I cant really defend myself or really offer much analysis on anyone, since almost all of the posts have been not-serious randposts and RP fluff. Scum!Ti would know that, and happily use the pretext of a flailing early game townie to make an easy wagon.

- - - Updated - - -




> The Murska and Cultist wagons have reasoning behind them that are ~fine for D1, but I don't know who I'd pick between them yet (and the day is still long). Snow's wagon is entirely made up of random votes so it should go away (also because Snow just lost a hard-fought game and there are too many people who meme vote her D1 so she always gets wagoned).
> 
> Between the three Snow voters Cultist is already a wagon, Wombat is unlikely to change his vote until much later (and was the N1 last game), so Kraken gets the pressure vote.


Youre absolutely right. I will get off the joke wagon onto the person I kinda sorta think is suspect.

Lady Serpentine.

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## Let'sGetKraken

> The Murska and Cultist wagons have reasoning behind them that are ~fine for D1, but I don't know who I'd pick between them yet (and the day is still long). Snow's wagon is entirely made up of random votes so it should go away (also because Snow just lost a hard-fought game and there are too many people who meme vote her D1 so she always gets wagoned).
> 
> Between the three Snow voters Cultist is already a wagon, Wombat is unlikely to change his vote until much later (and was the N1 last game), so Kraken gets the pressure vote.


Excuse you, mine is a retaliatory vote - it is most certainly not random.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

> I mean for starters, we're ~18 hours into a ~72 hour day, and that's if the forum gets its crap together and no extension is necessary.


Nobody said my sense of time was good.  :Small Tongue: 




> You, though? I do kind of scumread you. I think putting the pressure on me would be a valid tactic later in the day, where there have been enough posts for people to actually develop reads. At this point, I cant really defend myself or really offer much analysis on anyone, since almost all of the posts have been not-serious randposts and RP fluff. Scum!Ti would know that, and happily use the pretext of a flailing early game townie to make an easy wagon.


That's a heck of a lot of continued defensiveness for this early in the day, and a distinct lack of response to my _other_ question.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> That's a heck of a lot of continued defensiveness for this early in the day, and a distinct lack of response to my _other_ question.


You asked for my top three reads, and I gave them to you in as much substance as I can right now.

1) Blade

2) Snow

3) Ti

As for the other thing, Ive already answered your question. Saying anything more would defeat the purpose.

If I seem defensive, its because Im irritated that literally posting a thing twice at the beginning of the day seems enough to condemn me. Its a pretty dumb reason to wagon someone, and seeing a joke turn into actual pressure is frustrating.

- - - Updated - - -

And it is precisely because it is early in the day that I am not reading you well. Of course Im an easy wagon for you, putting me in a position to eventually claim or die which if youre a wolf benefits you either way.

----------


## Snowblaze

I don't think continued pressure on 3SC is productive - I was thinking through how town!him responds to pressure and 
remembered Utropia in which he... did not respond well... to being D1-wagoned as town. 

I do have him a fraction below null rn but I think I'll be able to get a significantly better read later on once he's had time to get into the game and done some solving.

There's also the fact that I'm not particularly a fan of either Ilven or Ti's votes (though newness in the first and playstyle clash in the second).

Also Taffimai is probably trying to pocket me but I might just let her for D1, her pocket is very comfortable.

----------


## Batcathat

> There's also the fact that I'm not particularly a fan of either Ilven or Ti's votes (though newness in the first and playstyle clash in the second).


Speaking of Ti's play style, do you feel like she's usually this... aggressive feels like the wrong word, but something along those lines... as town? It might be in line with her town self, I'm not really sure.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm kind of iffy about voting Cultist despite there being some potential reasons to (aside from what's already been mentioned, I kinda suspected he was checking if I'd be open to supporting a blade wagon, since I had my vote there already) but that similarity to Utropia is making me hesitant (not to mention having a clear front runner at this stage seems bad for discussion). But it feels like there's even less reason to vote any of the other wagons.

----------


## Illven

> I don't think continued pressure on 3SC is productive - I was thinking through how town!him responds to pressure and 
> remembered Utropia in which he... did not respond well... to being D1-wagoned as town. 
> 
> I do have him a fraction below null rn but I think I'll be able to get a significantly better read later on once he's had time to get into the game and done some solving.
> 
> There's also the fact that I'm not particularly a fan of either Ilven or Ti's votes (though newness in the first and playstyle clash in the second).
> 
> Also Taffimai is probably trying to pocket me but I might just let her for D1, her pocket is very comfortable.


To be honest, I just needed something to put a vote in. 

What does D1-Wagon mean?

----------


## Persolus

> What does D1-Wagon mean?


A "Wagon" is a bunch of people voting on the same person. You "jump on a wagon" by voting for someone who already has a bunch of votes. A D1 Wagon is a Wagon that forms on *D*ay *1*. 
[other related abbreviations are N1 - night one, EoD1 - end of day 1, LYLO - LYnch or LOse i.e. there are so few people left that if town goofs up on who to kill it's game over]

----------


## Book Wombat

> To be honest, I just needed something to put a vote in. 
> 
> What does D1-Wagon mean?


Wagons are lynch-targets, so the ones with votes. We call them wagons because you hop on and off them. D1 just means Day 1.

- - - Updated - - -

Welp, got ninja'd.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

My current thinking is "It's early D1, therefore we need information, therefore we should push people to talk more and provide _something_ so that we don't get to the point of needing to settle on a lynch target and find we have nothing but garbage".  

But if people with more experience with Cultist think that keeping the pressure on isn't going to be productive, I'm okay with moving on. Cultist hasn't offered _much_, but it's better than nothing. (Although I note that "It's too early to provide anything, therefore I am going to stretch that phase out by not talking" is pretty standard wolf logic.) 

So! *Snowblaze*, as the other top wagon, let's get the ball rolling. Same questions. What are your top reads? Do you have anything to say about yourself? You mentioned that you dislike a couple of votes; what about them stuck out in particular?

----------


## bladescape

I'm probably just saying no one should be voting Ti today.

This shield has an expiry date of next day phase

----------


## Xumtiil

> I'm probably just saying no one should be voting Ti today.
> 
> This shield has an expiry date of next day phase


You can't tell me what to do
you're not even my real dad
What is the world coming to
Am I going mad?

Tell me the benefit it would yield
of not ignoring this virtual shield.

----------


## Taffimai

> Speaking of Ti's play style, do you feel like she's usually this... aggressive feels like the wrong word, but something along those lines... as town? It might be in line with her town self, I'm not really sure.
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that I'm kind of iffy about voting Cultist despite there being some potential reasons to (aside from what's already been mentioned, I kinda suspected he was checking if I'd be open to supporting a blade wagon, since I had my vote there already) but that similarity to Utropia is making me hesitant (not to mention having a clear front runner at this stage seems bad for discussion). But it feels like there's even less reason to vote any of the other wagons.


Your question made me realise the only two games I remember Serpentine being town in (Fallout 2 and Candy-Coated) she only came in D2/D3. In Dead of Winter she was a wolf and her D1 consisted of a little pressuring and a lot of hard bussing (and I was right about her reasons not being kosher).




> Excuse you, mine is a retaliatory vote - it is most certainly not random.


True, you didn't roll a die, but your vote is still part of the random voting stage of the game (RVS) where people vote someone for whatever silly reason they can come up with and not because they actually think that person is a wolf this time. For example, I didn't decide on Xumtiil randomly either, but I'd still call it my D1 random vote. I'm sorry for confusing you.

----------


## bladescape

> You can't tell me what to do
> you're not even my real dad
> What is the world coming to
> Am I going mad?
> 
> Tell me the benefit it would yield
> of not ignoring this virtual shield.


The joy that comes with collaborating with those that also love our famed detective. For while we must fight for her love we may work together for ourselves.

- - - Updated - - -

Ti d1 will always look to pressure and poke imo. 

Look more at targets and options chosen.

----------


## Xihirli

Wait, are you all saying that Protagonist-Kun wont even see my vote if I dont bold it?

NOTICE ME, PROTAGONIST-KUN!

----------


## JeenLeen

I wanted to consolidate some of the D1 back-and-forth from the first page.  Omitting most RP...




> Let's see, this is going to be a fun one...
> 
> I think a vote for Snowblaze is in order for the SOD. She made it to F3 last game - and was scum, to boot - both of which I find entirely unacceptable. On top of the fact that I wanted to build a case against her but real-life intervened, and now here we are.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> (This is not a serious vote, in case that wasn't clear)





> Anyway, I was going to third-vote Snow but *3SecondCultist*'s opening seems really awkward and defensive. A disclaimer at the bottom and then another message just to make sure no-one thinks they're seriously voting in the first post of day 1? Why all the stress - perhaps you should take a rest.





> Anyway, seconding Murska's opinion on 3SC (though I may be biased since OMGUS + glad I'm not being wagoned properly). 
> 
> _<SNIP>_
> 
> Will wait for more people to check in before serious votes.





> (*Murska*.)





> Uhm, I'm not really gonna do the whole random voting thing, since according to my calculations there's a far greater chance that my finger points at an innocent, but there are two current "wagons" being built. Cases exist for both sides...on the one hand, Snow mentioned amogus [yes I'm aware that OMGUS means "OMG u suck" but memes ok] which, in this context, is what would be called "cringe." But on the other hand 3SC's posts _were_ extremely suspicious (as some would say, "sus," except we're not 12-year-olds).
> 
> I'm just going to go with my gut reaction to *Murska*'s deep-reading and say that whether or not Snow is actually scum (I'm leaning toward a no, but it's impossible to say) that this seemed a bit too eager for my tastes. EDIT: Not that I'm siding with 3SC either, since we don't have enough information about that either.
> (God I need to learn to use the preview feature. Colors are hard)





> Don't really get the logic here - if you agree that 3SC is "extremely suspicious" then why is Murska voting for him suspicious?





> (Seriously though, I did a joke randvote and now am just trying to adjust to actual RP, plus BCH made literally the same post as me. Dont see why Im getting legitimately sussed for this)


- - - Updated - - -

Thinking on the posts I copied above and reading page 2 of the thread... I think the 3SC vs Lady Serpentine is legitimate.  That is, I buy that as not two wolves distancing.  Could be one's a wolf, could be both are townies suspecting the other.  Hard to say.

I could see some D1 distancing between wolves somewhere in those posts.  Murska and Snowblaze each hint at wanting to vote each other, but vote elsewhere.  Snowblaze kinda defends Murska.

For now, *Murska*, but I could see a vote on most I quoted.
3SC feels legit townie... feels legitimately like someone annoyed their RP and joking was taking too seriously.  Could be a wolf panicked and backtracking, but doens't feel that defensive to me.
But seems odd for wolf!Murska to make a strong move against a townie early D1... but maybe do it since it seems odd for a wolf to?  And now that makes a WIFOM spiral that's hard to get out of until someone's dead and we have more intel.

----------


## Snowblaze

> My current thinking is "It's early D1, therefore we need information, therefore we should push people to talk more and provide _something_ so that we don't get to the point of needing to settle on a lynch target and find we have nothing but garbage".  
> 
> But if people with more experience with Cultist think that keeping the pressure on isn't going to be productive, I'm okay with moving on. Cultist hasn't offered _much_, but it's better than nothing. (Although I note that "It's too early to provide anything, therefore I am going to stretch that phase out by not talking" is pretty standard wolf logic.) 
> 
> So! *Snowblaze*, as the other top wagon, let's get the ball rolling. Same questions. What are your top reads? Do you have anything to say about yourself? You mentioned that you dislike a couple of votes; what about them stuck out in particular?


Let's see...

- Murska is above null for mindmelding with me on the initial 3SC wolfread (I actually had that thought before he posted it, just didn't say so). My next priority is to look at why he's a wagon.

- I have a mild townlean on Batcathat for... gut, mostly, I guess. I liked that they didn't try to force a bladescape read and thought their question about you seemed pretty solvy. 

- I disliked the votes mostly because "votes on the current lead wagon that don't feel properly justified -> possible opportunistic wolves". Retracting that for you since bladescape has reminded me that D1 pressure-voting is pretty standard Ti. And Ilven is new so gets a D1 pass.

- have already talked about 3SC, don't feel like elaborating rn.

- dislike the Murska votes probably more than the 3SC votes; I don't think he's done anything particularly wolfy and I Don't Get Aleph's logic (deliberately not pushing there because there are times that happens with town and I'm not going to figure out if this is one of them by trying to get him killed.)

As for me... "I would really rather not be a D1 wagon, I'm mildly burnt out and don't want to get overinvested in this game only to have to shift most of my attention to hydra-ing". Though if people think I'm suspicious that shouldn't be a valid argument against voting me.

- - - Updated - - -




> Speaking of Ti's play style, do you feel like she's usually this... aggressive feels like the wrong word, but something along those lines... as town? It might be in line with her town self, I'm not really sure.
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that I'm kind of iffy about voting Cultist despite there being some potential reasons to (aside from what's already been mentioned, I kinda suspected he was checking if I'd be open to supporting a blade wagon, since I had my vote there already) but that similarity to Utropia is making me hesitant (not to mention having a clear front runner at this stage seems bad for discussion). But it feels like there's even less reason to vote any of the other wagons.


I don't think it's in any way OOC for town!Ti to be playing this the way she has. Note that's not the same as townreading her (I have her as more or less null atm) but I'd rather not vote someone who's increasing the amount of D1 content without good reasons.

Thoughts on Murska?

- - - Updated - - -

Jeen, I never had or hinted at intention to vote Murska. Why did you think I did?

Anyway, I disagree with the logic of that post; what's giving me pause is the 3SC townread, which I guess... doesn't really feel like TMI. (Or defending a partner in wolf!3SC worlds).

----------


## Batcathat

> Thoughts on Murska?


Not many (or maybe too many?). On one hand, I mostly agree with the argument against Cultist (at least if ignoring Utropia), but my gut is a little nervous about Murska (though I feel like I tend to wolfread Murska by default, so it might nothing). I want to say that there's at least one wolf between Murska and Cultist, but that seems like a shaky assumption at best (though I feel reasonably confident that they're not w/w, since Murska's argument seems dangerous to make about a buddy).

----------


## Murska

There's a surprising amount of backlash for pointing out something that's generally accepted as genuinely suspicious and voting on it, early day one. What do you want, for me to have a more solid case than a suspicious opening a couple hours into the game?

I've put pressure on Cultist, and they've doubled down on being super defensive. Snow's had a bunch of votes on them but reacted in a more genuine way imo, also I doubt they'd claim mindmeld as a wolf at this point.

If I work on the hypothesis that Cultist is town, then I'd look at people trying to push this v/v conversation without getting into the thick of it. Aleph is either very confused or making things up, but it's a bit blatant to be a wolf maybe. Zelphas completely ignored the whole thing, remaining in RVS even after I ended it. What is even the point of voting without even the intent to pressure? Illven joined the wagon without saying much, which I would glance at with more interest if 3SC flipped town - but still probably not that much interest. My instinct is that a wolf would try to justify their vote more. Taffi placed a pressure vote on someone else, which gets them off my list for today, pending some flips. 

JeenLeen put in some effort to solve, and had the opposite read as me from 3SC. Fair enough, I guess, but I get some warning bells from how the vote at me seems like motivated reasoning. Like they're looking for something, anything to be able to turn things around. This is where I'd look first if 3SC flipped wolf.

----------


## bladescape

*Zelphas*

Reasons.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Snow's response to pressure was quite satisfactory for now, so I'm happy to see what Bladescape's reasons are. *Zelphas,* speak up, would you?

----------


## Xihirli

I want to keep pressure on *3SecondCultist*.
You dont think that makes me mean, do you Protagonist-kun?

----------


## Xumtiil

> I want to keep pressure on *3SecondCultist*.
> You dont think that makes me mean, do you Protagonist-kun?


Cassie's an awesome queen,
She'll be ready to forgive
I will stop pushing JeenLeen
*Persolus*, why should we let you live?

Your posts are meager
Have some pressure
Might make you eager
to counter my displeasure.

----------


## JeenLeen

Who is "Ti"?  Maybe I'm overlooking, but I didn't notice someone by that name posting and quite possibly overlooked.




> Jeen, I never had or hinted at intention to vote Murska. Why did you think I did?


I misread the post of yours that I quoted.  My apologies.

----------


## Taffimai

> Cassie's an awesome queen,
> She'll be ready to forgive
> I will stop pushing JeenLeen
> *Persolus*, why should we let you live?
> 
> Your posts are meager
> Have some pressure
> Might make you eager
> to counter my displeasure.


You're quoting Xihirli but replying only to her fluff, not her content. Earlier you asked me a question without quoting the post that sparked it. Do you have an opinion about Xihirli keeping pressure on Cultist? What's your read on Snow?

- - - Updated - - -




> Who is "Ti"?  Maybe I'm overlooking, but I didn't notice someone by that name posting and quite possibly overlooked.


Serpen*ti*ne  :Small Wink:

----------


## Xumtiil

> You're quoting Xihirli but replying only to her fluff, not her content. Earlier you asked me a question without quoting the post that sparked it. Do you have an opinion about Xihirli keeping pressure on Cultist? What's your read on Snow?


Xihirli is as Xihirli does
That much is sure
I'm watching my back,
missing kidneys have no cure.

Snow looks town for now
But there is a bit of bias
She did a good job last game
For D1, I give her a pass

----------


## bladescape

I'm giving Xum a D1 pass too.

Not because they've done anything towny.

Because I like the poetry.

----------


## Xihirli

> Cassie's an awesome queen,
> She'll be ready to forgive
> I will stop pushing JeenLeen
> *Persolus*, why should we let you live?
> 
> Your posts are meager
> Have some pressure
> Might make you eager
> to counter my displeasure.


Your rhyming is beautiful, Rival-kun.
I mean, Xumtiil-kun.

----------


## Snowblaze

Taffimai can join my tentative townleans pile. Though noting she hasn't crossed out her Xumtiil vote. 

The poetry is amusing, yes. I won't be producing any of my own on the grounds that I am utterly incapable of writing poetry. 

Xumtiil, why don't you want to vote Jeen any more?

Mildly paranoid about how many people are townreading me/giving me a D1 pass after last game, but also it's better than the alternative and I don't know who specifically would have TMI/be trying to pocket me.

----------


## Xumtiil

You're all too kind
But credit where it's due
Taffimai's poem was the catalyst,
Longer and more elegant, too.

- - - Updated - - -




> Xumtiil, why don't you want to vote Jeen any more?


The vote was there for pressure
Since they were absent
They arrived with some insight
which made me content


For now.

----------


## Batcathat

Although there's still a lot of time left, it would be nice to move my vote somewhere real. So let's look at the main contenders:

*Cultist*: Pretty much discussed already. Some warning signs, but similar warning signs were present as a townie (well, at the time, anyway) in Utropia. 
*Ti*: For now, I'll take blade's word for the style being in line with her town game. Jumping from target to target might be towny (or it might be a wolf trying to find a mislynch target that sticks, I suppose). 
*Murska*: Brain says I like his reasoning, gut says I don't quite trust it. 
*Snow*: Feels towny, but Snow is very good at faking towny. For what it's worth, I mostly agree with her reads (with the possible exception of Murska).
*Zelphas*: Two (allegedly) random votes, both on newish players. Could be genuine. Could be a wolf checking out mislynch options (though with how rarely new players get lynched D1, this one feels unlikely). Could be a wolf creating some distance to a partner, with a built-in excuse to switch when necessary (though if that's the case, I doubt both are Zelphas' wolf buddies, that seems a little too brazen).
*Someone else*: Obviously there's still time to try and start a new wagon, but I don't really have any good leads there either. (And really, at least one of the five wagons kinda have to be a wolf, right?)

Well, that produced a startling lack of epiphanies. Maybe I should sleep on it. Input is usually appreciated, if rarely trusted.

----------


## JeenLeen

Mechanics question: in recruitment, AV said that vanillagers and wolves would have a networking power.  That never got changed, right?
I asked AV privately, but she's offline and I feel like posting this sooner than later.

Theoretical scheming question: I have a very basic/generic town power.  So I think there's probably other townies with "normal" powers (watcher, baner, innocent child, maybe vig but AV's dislike of it means maybe not).  Of course that's not necessarily true, but I believe AV advertised this as a low-power game with mostly vanillager townies.  And conversation seems to have died down, so I hope some hypothetical might drive up discussion.

If there's an Innocent Child, usually it's bad to reveal it until they are up for lynch since it paints a target on their back.
But with a networking power and probably-a-baner around, maybe they should claim (that is, get AV to declare them as Town).   Set up a trusted network hub, and the unclaimed baner can protect them.
Of course, the wolves would infiltrate the network since they have networking powers, too, but still seems a way to coordinate and perhaps catch someone in a lie.

Or would it better to wait until D2 to set it up?  More intel by then, and the baner is free to bane who they will N1.

Anyway, even if nobody claims Innocent Child, even if there's no Innocent Child to claim, discussion/opinion about this could yield intel.


*@Xumtiil:* in one of your poems, something could be hinting at my Role title.  I kinda doubt you were, but IF you were... well, I think you're right.  Probably just a coincidence.

----------


## Persolus

> Cassie's an awesome queen,
> She'll be ready to forgive
> I will stop pushing JeenLeen
> *Persolus*, why should we let you live?
> 
> Your posts are meager
> Have some pressure
> Might make you eager
> to counter my displeasure.



ughhh, do you even read? it's, like, the same thing i say at the start of every game
plus, i'm, like, _totally_ town, it's just, i have a life too, ya know?



Unless I've counted wrong:
*3SecondCultist - 3* Xihirli, Murska, Ilven

*Snowblaze - 2* Let'sGetKraken, Book Wombat
*Zelphas - 2* Lady Serpentine, Bladescape
*Lady Serpentine - 2* 3SecondCultist, Persolus
*Let'sGetKraken - 2* Taffimai, Snowblaze
*Murska - 2* Aleph Null, JeenLeen

*Bladescape - 1* Batcathat
*Book Wombat - 1* Cazero
*Cazero - 1* Zelphas
*Persolus - 1* Xumtiil

Personally, I still don't know you all well enough to get reads off of what's been said so far, so I don't have much else _yet_. 

*@BatCatHat* any opinion on the Let'sGetKraken wagon, which i think you missed in your analysis?


*@JeenLeen* I have asked AV about this power, and that was one thing she _did_ actually give me a straight answer on - yes, it still exists.

*@Taffimai* as snow mentioned, please cross out your initial vote on Xumtiil

----------


## Batcathat

> *@BatCatHat* any opinion on the Let'sGetKraken wagon, which i think you missed in your analysis?


Indeed I did, I had forgotten to enter Taff's switch into my sheet. So instead of five options I can't choose between, there's six. Fantastic. 

At least ISOing Kraken didn't take long, but the result is a resounding null.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Indeed I did, I had forgotten to enter Taff's switch into my sheet. So instead of five options I can't choose between, there's six. Fantastic. 
> 
> At least ISOing Kraken didn't take long, but the result is a resounding null.


I am currently recovering from illness, training a subordinate at work and it's P8, so I am pulling overtime. Going to cite IRL reasons for inactivity there. Trying to watch the thread but do not have time/energy for analysis until the weekend at the earliest.

----------


## Xumtiil

Persolus responded to my satisfaction
He needs not fear my combat
Let's see if we can get some traction
On the one and only *Wombat*

- - - Updated - - -




> Indeed I did, I had forgotten to enter Taff's switch into my sheet. So instead of five options I can't choose between, there's six. Fantastic. 
> 
> At least ISOing Kraken didn't take long, but the result is a resounding null.


I am sorry for your conundrum
I seem to have made it worse
Seven you can choose from
Accept my apology in verse.

----------


## Zelphas

> *Zelphas*
> 
> Reasons.


Bladescape is generally solid on his reasons, and I tend to read as scummy when I'm noticed in early game. This is likely a study in futility, but could I ask what the reasons are? It's early enough that anything could be true, but I'm interested in the thought process behind the conclusion--"showing your work", as it were.




> Snow's response to pressure was quite satisfactory for now, so I'm happy to see what Bladescape's reasons are. *Zelphas,* speak up, would you?


I do better the more information I have, and Day 1 is the height of having absolutely no information. I'm still getting the hang of reading subtext behind thread messages, which probably explains why I keep coming back to and enjoying these games despite never surviving or winning a single one so far. Ask for my reads on Day 2, and I'll provide what I can. For now, the best I can do is observe the class and try to start recognizing things.

----------


## Book Wombat

> Persolus responded to my satisfaction
> He needs not fear my combat
> Let's see if we can get some traction
> On the one and only *Wombat*


Hello hello, what is it you wish to know?

----------


## Xumtiil

> Hello hello, what is it you wish to know?


What are your thoughts here
Your reads on Snow, Cultist, and others
Appreciated

----------


## Illven

> Illven joined the wagon without saying much, which I would glance at with more interest if 3SC flipped town - but still probably not that much interest. My instinct is that a wolf would try to justify their vote more.


I did not realize their was a wagon.  :Small Red Face: 

But my reasons stay the safe. First post equals guilty conscience.

----------


## Xihirli

> First post equals guilty conscience.


Yes, we have to punish the guilty, Protagonist-Kun.
_hee-hee_.

----------


## bladescape

To be clear this isn't "I found a wolf."

Zelphas has done things but need more fire to see if they burn like they got fur.

- - - Updated - - -

Showing my work lol

- - - Updated - - -

Always happy to discuss my process outside a live game but generally find people guessing what I'm doing helps me read them.

----------


## Snowblaze

3SecondCultist 3: Xihirli, Murska, Ilven
Murska 2: Aleph Null, JeenLeen 
Snowblaze 2: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
Let'sGetKraken 2: Snowblaze, Taffimai 
Zelphas 2: bladescape, Lady Serpentine 
Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Xumtiil
Lady Serpentine 2: Persolus, 3SecondCultist 
Cazero 1: Zelphas
bladescape 1: Batcathat 

Well. This is a... weird gamestate. I guess I only actively dislike two of the wagons (Murska and Ti), three if you count myself. But still. 

I'd suggest consolidation but... I'd vote 3SC over any of the other wagons and I don't want to do that rn. I should probably skim Zelphas again and see if I can figure out bladescape's Reasons. 

The alternative is trying to get a new wagon moving... would anyone be interested in voting Jeen or Aleph with me, or does anyone have a suspect they'd like my help in wagoning?

And, of course, questions!

- 3SC, has your opinion of Ti changed given recent events? Why/why not?

- Ti, who are the wolves? Xumtiil, same question.

- Ilven, do you have thoughts on anyone who isn't 3SC? (And if so  what are they?)

----------


## Book Wombat

> What are your thoughts here
> Your reads on Snow, Cultist, and others
> Appreciated


Um, sorry to disappoint but I do not really have reads.

----------


## Taffimai

*@Murska* Do you really still want to kill Cultist today?

*@JeenLeen* Can you explain your vote for Murska a bit more please? Also do I have it correct that in your first post where you say "Serpentine" you mean "Murska"?

- - - Updated - - -

Also I'll be honest I think your IC plan is bad because the baner can only protect them so long and then the wolves can pick off the central figure in the communications web N2-N3 right as it begins to be the most useful. And I'm not sure I'd want to openly organise such a web anyway because that used to be done here a lot before I started playing and it seemed profoundly un-fun for the non-PR townies whose input becomes irrelevant.

- - - Updated - - -

(that was still for JeenLeen)

----------


## Xumtiil

> - Ti, who are the wolves? Xumtiil, same question.


It is the first day
I have no firm grasp
Of the ones that stray
Out of Cassie's clasp.

My gut pings for some
But I will not yet share
If I'm right I'd be soon gone
If I'm wrong it'd cause despair
Also totally Bladescape, maybe Ti

----------


## Batcathat

I still don't love any of the wagons (thanks for making even more of them, by the way.  :Small Tongue:  ), but going with my gut I'm gonna say *Zelphas* for now.

----------


## bladescape

> I still don't love any of the wagons (thanks for making even more of them, by the way.  ), but going with my gut I'm gonna say *Zelphas* for now.


Who would you like as a wagon?

----------


## Batcathat

> Who would you like as a wagon?


I don't know, that's sort of the problem. I think Cultist is the only one who's said anything particularly suspicious, but the similarity to Utropia (where he was even more suspicious) makes me hesitant to vote there. So I'm left with mostly vague gutreads.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

Alright, hang the RP for a moment. It's throwing me off and providing room for misunderstandings where I have not intended them, and that is not productive.




> I don't think continued pressure on 3SC is productive - I was thinking through how town!him responds to pressure and 
> remembered Utropia in which he... did not respond well... to being D1-wagoned as town.





> The reason I'm asking is that I'm kind of iffy about voting Cultist despite there being some potential reasons to (aside from what's already been mentioned, I kinda suspected he was checking if I'd be open to supporting a blade wagon, since I had my vote there already) but that similarity to Utropia is making me hesitant (not to mention having a clear front runner at this stage seems bad for discussion). But it feels like there's even less reason to vote any of the other wagons.


I guess as a kind of disclaimer: *forget Utropia.* Even if I do get wagoned here, do not expect the same kind of reaction. An entire game spent in mason chat with AV has killed most traces of emotive play for me. I do think it's silly to get wagoned over a double posting, but I'm not going to go nuclear, vote for myself, or do anything so rash.

If the only thing stopping you from voting me is how I would react, then don't. I am obviously going to provide some reads to hopefully stay your hands, but the very last thing I want is for either of you to abstain from voting for me because you think I'm going to have a meltdown. Your pity would actually upset me more at this point, I think.




> There's a surprising amount of backlash for pointing out something that's generally accepted as genuinely suspicious and voting on it, early day one. What do you want, for me to have a more solid case than a suspicious opening a couple hours into the game?
> 
> I've put pressure on Cultist, and they've doubled down on being super defensive. Snow's had a bunch of votes on them but reacted in a more genuine way imo, also I doubt they'd claim mindmeld as a wolf at this point.
> 
> If I work on the hypothesis that Cultist is town, then I'd look at people trying to push this v/v conversation without getting into the thick of it. Aleph is either very confused or making things up, but it's a bit blatant to be a wolf maybe. Zelphas completely ignored the whole thing, remaining in RVS even after I ended it. What is even the point of voting without even the intent to pressure? Illven joined the wagon without saying much, which I would glance at with more interest if 3SC flipped town - but still probably not that much interest. My instinct is that a wolf would try to justify their vote more. Taffi placed a pressure vote on someone else, which gets them off my list for today, pending some flips. 
> 
> JeenLeen put in some effort to solve, and had the opposite read as me from 3SC. Fair enough, I guess, but I get some warning bells from how the vote at me seems like motivated reasoning. Like they're looking for something, anything to be able to turn things around. This is where I'd look first if 3SC flipped wolf.


Right. So I actually agree with most of your points (other than the one where I'm being characterized as 'super defensive', but not going to split hairs there). I'm looking at the way you are looking at everyone else, and I think I'm largely seeing what you see. That more than anything is making me townread you. We also don't know each other that well, and it's reasonable to suspect me on a legitimate mistake that I made (not my first, and certainly not my last). Funnily enough, for the person driving my wagon you are either at the top or near the top of my town list.

Let's assume for the moment that we are both town. That would have made this a T/T day, at least as far as the two of us are concerned. The people you have pointed out are all potential suspects for me; but the biggest one I can see is JeenLeen. When I look at their post quoted below...




> For now, *Murska*, but I could see a vote on most I quoted.
> 3SC feels legit townie... feels legitimately like someone annoyed their RP and joking was taking too seriously.  Could be a wolf panicked and backtracking, but doens't feel that defensive to me.
> But seems odd for wolf!Murska to make a strong move against a townie early D1... but maybe do it since it seems odd for a wolf to?  And now that makes a WIFOM spiral that's hard to get out of until someone's dead and we have more intel.


... I see a wolf hedging between two leading wagons, one of which I _know_ to be town and the other which I _suspect_ to be town. Voting for you instead of me helps the wolves if I end up getting lynched today, since my death and town-flip would make you look worse for starting my wagon in the first place. In the world where we're both town, it makes you an easy D2 mislynch. That's forward-thinking wolf play.




> - 3SC, has your opinion of Ti changed given recent events? Why/why not?


Of course it has. Subsequent comments by other players have made it clear to me that she's bouncing around and looking to put pressure on multiple wagons, and furthermore that it is an established part of her D1 gameplay to generate information. It could still be a wolf throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks wagon-wise, but it actually looks more towny if you think of it as an attempt to actually draw out information. She is no longer a top wolfread for me.

- - - Updated - - -

*Current vote count:*

3SecondCultist 3: Xihirli, Murska, Ilven
Zelphas 3: bladescape, Lady Serpentine, Batcathat
Murska 2: Aleph Null, JeenLeen 
Snowblaze 2: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
Let'sGetKraken 2: Snowblaze, Taffimai 
Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Xumtiil
Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus 
Cazero 1: Zelphas
JeenLeen 1: 3SecondCultist

----------


## bladescape

I do want to say I would like to not get 3SC today.

Not because I hard townread them yet.

But because I approve of the move to lower emotive play/reaction as it just makes everyone involved feel bad. And I want to encourage that no matter what alignment they are.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

People not on leading wagons (so everyone not voting for me or Zelphas): *can you give rationales for your votes at this point?* Who, if either of these two wagons, would you switch your vote to and why?

----------


## Snowblaze

Okay, let's try this then. *JeenLeen*. Need some time to process what this does to my 3SC read but I think switching is good for gamestate either way.

Also sorry if I came across as pitying, that wasn't my intention; I just thought it would likely be easier to read you if you had space to solve and produce content rather than being pressured by everyone.

And sorry to BCH for creating more wagons to choose from!

----------


## Batcathat

> I guess as a kind of disclaimer: *forget Utropia.* Even if I do get wagoned here, do not expect the same kind of reaction. An entire game spent in mason chat with AV has killed most traces of emotive play for me. I do think it's silly to get wagoned over a double posting, but I'm not going to go nuclear, vote for myself, or do anything so rash.
> 
> If the only thing stopping you from voting me is how I would react, then don't. I am obviously going to provide some reads to hopefully stay your hands, but the very last thing I want is for either of you to abstain from voting for me because you think I'm going to have a meltdown. Your pity would actually upset me more at this point, I think.


You misunderstand, the reason Utropia is making me hesitant to vote you isn't any pity or desire to spare your feelings, but simply that the situation here (you say something kind of suspicious and get defensive when questioned) looks kind of wolfy, but it's also basically what happened in Utropia, where you turned out to be a townie (at the time, anyway).

----------


## Snowblaze

> People not on leading wagons (so everyone not voting for me or Zelphas): *can you give rationales for your votes at this point?* Who, if either of these two wagons, would you switch your vote to and why?


Explanation should be pretty clear, I have a vague wolflean on Jeen and want a new wagon to shake up gamestate. Need a while to turn your last post over in my head and figure out whether it's towny before I can answer that, but aorn I'm not particularly enthused by killing Zelphas.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> Okay, let's try this then. *JeenLeen*. Need some time to process what this does to my 3SC read but I think switching is good for gamestate either way.
> 
> Also sorry if I came across as pitying, that wasn't my intention; I just thought it would likely be easier to read you if you had space to solve and produce content rather than being pressured by everyone.





> You misunderstand, the reason Utropia is making me hesitant to vote you isn't any pity or desire to spare your feelings, but simply that the situation here (you say something kind of suspicious and get defensive when questioned) looks kind of wolfy, but it's also basically what happened in Utropia, where you turned out to be a townie (at the time, anyway).


Fair. I guess the other side of that coin is that I'm a relatively new player whose playstyle is still evolving. This is my fourth serious game on the forums. Reading me based on Utropia - two games ago - is going to give you a rather unreliable read. Whether I am a wolf or town, do not expect the same kind of reaction.

Thanks for the confirmation, though.

- - - Updated - - -




> Explanation should be pretty clear, I have a vague wolflean on Jeen and want a new wagon to shake up gamestate. Need a while to turn your last post over in my head and figure out whether it's towny before I can answer that, but aorn I'm not particularly enthused by killing Zelphas.


Okay, that much I can understand. I'm equally unenthused at the prospect of voting Zelphas, as I don't particularly wolfread them right now.

Also: aorn? As of right now?

----------


## Batcathat

> Fair. I guess the other side of that coin is that I'm a relatively new player whose playstyle is still evolving. This is my fourth serious game on the forums. Reading me based on Utropia - two games ago - is going to give you a rather unreliable read. Whether I am a wolf or town, do not expect the same kind of reaction.


Sure, reading people isn't an exact science at the best of times and with someone fairly new it's even worse. I will say that pushing this hard against the thing that's keeping me from voting you is earning you some townpoints. (Not much, since that's the kind of thing I like to do myself as a wolf, but some).

----------


## Xumtiil

> People not on leading wagons (so everyone not voting for me or Zelphas): *can you give rationales for your votes at this point?* Who, if either of these two wagons, would you switch your vote to and why?


I am switching votes
Generate conversations
Both wagons are bad.

----------


## Batcathat

Now that there's yet another wagon to choose from, I took a look at Jeen's posts (one thing I like about these lower pace games is how easy it is to ISO). There's obviously not a lot to go on with just three posts, but there are a few things I don't like. The many quotes of the first post could be wolfy filler. Townreading Cultist could be a way to get cred if/when Cultist flips town and the Murska vote seems kind of odd. As for the plan, I think it's kind of odd to suggest a plan based around a role that's rarely used and the mechanical speculation in the same post could be more filler.

Of course, all of this is me looking at Jeen's posts in the worst possible light (and I have helped mislynch Jeen D1 in a previous game specifically for suggesting what I thought was a questionable plan) but there's not really a lot of towny stuff to find either.

So for now I'm okay with *JeenLeen*. It doesn't hurt that I'll be joining one person I'm leaning town on and another I think I sort of might be leaning town on too (I think my position on Cultist is the reverse of my position on Murska. Gut says town, brain says maybe not).

Anyhow, I'll probably be busy for most of tonight (or whatever the next couple of hours are in your timezone) but I should be back at least a few hours before EoD.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, I forgot to mention that I get towny vibes from Jeen's comment to Xum about hinting at a role title, but I think AV said roles and alignments aren't necessarily connected so it could be completely honest, but still coming from a wolf. So I'm gonna say it's NAI for now.

(I also got a ton of server issues trying to add this, so maybe EoD will be delayed?)

----------


## Murska

> *@Murska* Do you really still want to kill Cultist today?


Hm. Well, I don't want to be in a tunnel based on what is honestly a pretty small thing early. I like their latest post, too.

I'll keep an eye on 3SC, but I do want to put *JeenLeen* up rather more, to get some better explanations out of them.

----------


## JeenLeen

*@AV: when is Day ending?*

For those of you voting me, do note I've claimed a powered town role in a relatively low-power game.  (Well, or I'm a lying wolf or a lying vanillager trying to gain the wolves' fire.)  If we're not going with my plan, I'd rather not claim my role yet to counter a wagon.
Also, making my plan would be really stupid if I were a wolf.  A wolf wouldn't know the powers in play by the Town, so saying I have a generic one is an easy way to get caught.  Also if/when I claim, I could get counterclaimed.  There's no reason for wolf!me to set myself up for a wagon like this when folk are already focused on others and I could coast under the radar D1.

Persolus made a good argument for why my plan isn't great.  I was hoping more would comment on it, and that would yield information after we have a couple deaths (and hopefully a wolf's) to see how the wolves felt about the plan.  e.g., if someone said it was good/bad for bad reasons, we might see a wolf hinting at what they'd like to happen.

---

As far as hedginess on 3SC and Murska: it was basically they seemed against each other, and I picked a side.  I voted Murska because I felt their calling out 3SC seemed extreme.  It _is_ reasonable for a D1 reason to vote, but still a stronger criticism than I felt it deserved so it rang a little odd to me.  I was hedgey because it's D1 and it's hard to know who, if anyone, if what alignment.   (I know Lady Serpentine also went against 3SC some, but I was thinking on Murska at that time, not Ti.)

On a gut feeling, Aleph Null's response felt wolfy.  Nothing strong to back it up.  Maybe it reminded me of their wolf game from a long time ago.

- - - Updated - - -

And a *Zelphas* vote for self-preservation.  If I read the votes right, some on Murska have moved to me/others, so they seem a good enough 2-vote wagon to move onto.  (I don't have a strong read on anyone with 2 votes currently.)

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Still super busy IRL, but a few comments:

1. Would prefer not to lynch Jeen, even if their plan was wildly optimistic at best. They've claimed a role with powers and we don't want to gamble with that right now. 
2. Would prefer not to lynch Murska. The aggression towards Cultist feels like either genuine town behaviour or it would be a wolf going way too hard way too early. Possible WIFOM or misplay but I think we keep them alive for now. 

Will need to take a look at Zelphas to see what they've said, but that would be where my vote might be going.

----------


## Illven

> - Ilven, do you have thoughts on anyone who isn't 3SC? (And if so  what are they?)


Well, Lady Sepertine wanted to vote for me, so......Retalitation?

----------


## Book Wombat

I kinda remember JeenLeen suggesting these kind of plans before, not sure when though or what alignment they were.

----------


## Cazero

Predictions :
Every single one of us has a power role. The vanilla town equivalents can network people.The only role in duplicate are twins. They're lovers.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I'd rather not get 3SC killed today for reasons and might bus a counterwagon if need be.

----------


## Xumtiil

> Also, I'd rather not get 3SC killed today for reasons and might bus a counterwagon if need be.


An explanation
Where one wolf kills another
Is to do a bus

----------


## JeenLeen

I'll do a soft claim, by which I basically mean explicitly state what I was trying to make the wolves confused about via implication.
I am either the vigilante, baner, or innocent child.

Come after me tonight wolves.  1/3 chance I'm someone you want alive to kill townies for you, 1/3 chance I baned myself, or 1/3 chance I'm a good target who might be baned by the actual baner.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Illven

> Predictions :
> The only role in duplicate are twins. They're lovers.


If I recall the old crack pairing ship thread on OOTS, this can't be the case cause incest is a bannable offense

----------


## Cazero

> If I recall the old crack pairing ship thread on OOTS, this can't be the case cause incest is a bannable offense


I meant mechanicaly similar to the conventional role known as lover.
They know each other, they're in the same team, and if one dies the other does too.

----------


## Snowblaze

I think this is towny for Jeen. And I hate that I think that because it means I don't know who to vote for. 

I've decided 3SC's recent posting is good enough to not want him dead D1, and there's Zelphas but I don't really have any reason to vote Zelphas beyond "I should jump on a wagon and this is the one I don't dislike".

Eh, I guess I'll stick a protest/pressure vote on *Aleph Null* for his weird logic on the Murska/Cultist thing and because I'd like his thoughts on stuff. 

Aleph, opinions on our current wagons? Do you still think Murska is a wolf?

Also friendly reminder that speculating about what roles may or may not be in the game is generally more helpful for wolves than town (especially on D1), so please don't do it itt.

- - - Updated - - -

JeenLeen 3: 3SecondCultist, Batcathat, Murska
Zelphas 3: bladescape, Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen
3SecondCultist 2: Xihirli, Ilven
Snowblaze 2: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken 
Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Xumtiil
Murska 1: Aleph Null
Let'sGetKraken 1: Taffimai 
Aleph Null 1: Snowblaze 
Cazero 1: Zelphas 
Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus 

Also, Jeen, I believe it was Taffimai rather than Persolus who disagreed with the merits of your plan.

----------


## Aleph Null

> I think this is towny for Jeen. And I hate that I think that because it means I don't know who to vote for. 
> 
> I've decided 3SC's recent posting is good enough to not want him dead D1, and there's Zelphas but I don't really have any reason to vote Zelphas beyond "I should jump on a wagon and this is the one I don't dislike".
> 
> Eh, I guess I'll stick a protest/pressure vote on *Aleph Null* for his weird logic on the Murska/Cultist thing and because I'd like his thoughts on stuff. 
> 
> Aleph, opinions on our current wagons? Do you still think Murska is a wolf?
> 
> Also friendly reminder that speculating about what roles may or may not be in the game is generally more helpful for wolves than town (especially on D1), so please don't do it itt.
> ...


Yeah, I sort of changed my mind, but I had a bit of a busy day yesterday. 

That said, I did note a couple things on *JeenLeen's* end that struck me as strange -- the first being the rather vague claim and the second being a reference to an old game where I believe the only game I played on GitP I ended up autolynching due to college workload spikes. That said, I can't recall whether I was town or wolf in that game. Just seems a bit odd that someone else would remember that better than me, since I still remember the floor of the room we stayed in at the hotel during the first trip I took with my grandparents to Baltimore when I was 4 years old (it was the 8th floor don't ask why i still remember that).

As a sidenote on a meta level, the forums are behaving strangely and giving me a "server is busy" on occasion, which is contributing to my difficulties.

----------


## Snowblaze

Having gone archive-trawling, Aleph was in both the original Upick and Stranger Things; he was town in the first though I didn't look to see how he died and wolf in the second, in which he was lynched.

I don't think whether or not someone remembers the details of past games says anything much about their alignment in the present game; human memory can be a very weird thing sometimes.

And I believe Jeen has done similar vague-claim stuff as town before, so that's NAI (Not Alignment Indicative) for them. 

Also you didn't answer all my questions: do you have thoughts on Zelphas, and do you still think Murska's a wolf.

Also also I believe a lot of people are experiencing "server is busy" messages. AV said they'd probably extend D1 because of it; *@AV* can you please confirm whether this is happening and if so when the new EOD time is?

----------


## JeenLeen

> That said, I did note a couple things on *JeenLeen's* end that struck me as strange -- the first being the rather vague claim and the second being a reference to an old game where I believe the only game I played on GitP I ended up autolynching due to college workload spikes. That said, I can't recall whether I was town or wolf in that game. Just seems a bit odd that someone else would remember that better than me, since I still remember the floor of the room we stayed in at the hotel during the first trip I took with my grandparents to Baltimore when I was 4 years old (it was the 8th floor don't ask why i still remember that).





> Having gone archive-trawling, Aleph was in both the original Upick and Stranger Things; he was town in the first though I didn't look to see how he died and wolf in the second, in which he was lynched.
> 
> I don't think whether or not someone remembers the details of past games says anything much about their alignment in the present game; human memory can be a very weird thing sometimes.
> 
> And I believe Jeen has done similar vague-claim stuff as town before, so that's NAI (Not Alignment Indicative) for them. 
> 
> Also you didn't answer all my questions: do you have thoughts on Zelphas, and do you still think Murska's a wolf.
> 
> Also also I believe a lot of people are experiencing "server is busy" messages. AV said they'd probably extend D1 because of it; *@AV* can you please confirm whether this is happening and if so when the new EOD time is?


It's quite possible I am getting some things confused.  I definitely make a lot of comprehension errors last game I was in (and was Town then, for what the playstyle counts.  Not that y'all should condone sloppy work by me.)  Maybe I did get Aleph confused with another.

I was about to say I'm not seeing error messages, but I got one while logging on to do this.
Well, the votes on me keep piling, the wolves know I'm _something_, so I'm just gonna do it. * Innocent Child*.  I apologize if I'm screwing us up by talking D1 instead of waiting until there was a good wagon on me later in the

- - - Updated - - -

...later in the game.  Guess I hit enter early.

---

To answer Snowblaze: no real opinion on Zelphas.  His defense to votes on him could be a wolf trying to ward off votes without looking too defensive, but could be legit town.
I don't really lean wolf on Murska.  My original vote made sense as a D1 little-reason thing.

Leaving self-preservation vote on Zelphas for now.

----------


## Aleph Null

> Having gone archive-trawling, Aleph was in both the original Upick and Stranger Things; he was town in the first though I didn't look to see how he died and wolf in the second, in which he was lynched.
> 
> I don't think whether or not someone remembers the details of past games says anything much about their alignment in the present game; human memory can be a very weird thing sometimes.
> 
> And I believe Jeen has done similar vague-claim stuff as town before, so that's NAI (Not Alignment Indicative) for them. 
> 
> Also you didn't answer all my questions: do you have thoughts on Zelphas, and do you still think Murska's a wolf.
> 
> Also also I believe a lot of people are experiencing "server is busy" messages. AV said they'd probably extend D1 because of it; *@AV* can you please confirm whether this is happening and if so when the new EOD time is?


I said I changed my mind -- as in, I am a bit more unsure about Murska, though I still think nitpicking on edited messages is a bit overkill.

Zelphas is...an interesting case. 
On the one hand, the meta-argument of "I haven't won a game yet" sounds like a "please don't lynch me so I can win" plea but on the other hand Jeen did openly admit that the Zelphas vote was to get himself out of the spotlight. Which could be because he's a wolf and wants to avoid a d1 lynch, but it could also be because he's town and wants to prevent a mislynch. And in either case the latter is what he wants us to think, but now we're just making like Vizzini. And nobody wants to be a Vizzini.
I'm honestly just considering flipping a coin and deciding my vote that way, because the lack of info available for d1 kind of do be that way.
Also, I'm actually unsure what the Innocent Child role means -- can someone elaborate?

----------


## Zelphas

I honestly don't like any of the current wagons; obviously, I don't like mine, but JeenLeen feels towny, and I have no strong opinions in any direction this early in the game. Also, my note that I haven't won a game wasn't meant as a "please don't lynch me" thing, just a random aside that struck me as I was writing the post; I apologize for bringing it up.

I'm going to move my vote to *Book Wombat* for the moment, simply because I never have a read on them and they're always fairly quiet, so maybe something can be learned from a Day 1 pseudo-wagon on them.

----------


## AvatarVecna

As the day went on, it seemed everybody had their own story about how mean "Leen Jean" had been to them all year.

"She crushed my art project underfoot!"

"She spilled juice all over my expensive new shirt!"

"She dropped my baby brother into the eagle exhibit at the zoo!"

As they all lob their grievances at the poor girl's feet, the squabble gets so loud that it even manages to distract Cassie from a mysterious gooey footprint she'd found in the factory office. She glances back at them, and rolls her eyes. "Come on girls, ease off. You're acting like all this is some Machiavellian plot or something. You know she's just clumsy, she can't help it!" She chuckles a little, before returning to her work.

And that settled it. If they had been engaged in some kind of conspiracy to sabotage all the other girls, Cassie would've sniffed it out and cracked the case wide open. This was clearly a red herring!

*JeenLeen is the Clumsy Girl, town.*

(day is still going, ends in ~7.5 hours)

----------


## Snowblaze

That's what an Innocent Child is, Aleph: role that can confirm themselves as town, as Jeen has now done. So I'd recommend not voting Jeen any more, please and thank you.

Not that I have any suggestions for who to vote instead, just several for who not to vote. Mild preference for Zelphas over Wombat but would prefer to find a better option than either.

Will try and make up my mind in the next couple of hours.

----------


## Book Wombat

> I'm going to move my vote to *Book Wombat* for the moment, simply because I never have a read on them and they're always fairly quiet, so maybe something can be learned from a Day 1 pseudo-wagon on them.


I also never have a read, but on everyone.

----------


## Taffimai

I think you did the right thing JeenLeen, because before the claims I was seriously considering voting you too. *Zelphas* because I too prefer him over Wombat, and to make sure our IC doesn't die because the people voting there don't get online before EoD.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

We have... Eight unidentified cart-like objects fairly close to close of day. Okay then.  

Reads, like Snow asked for earlier:  

3SC has a slight town read in light of having talked more. My switch off him was also based more on "If this is how you act as town, it's not a (strong) sign of being a wolf" than anything else, and he's continued to talk since, in ways that generally feel more like a townie than a wolf trying to wriggle out of suspicion. The vote on me was slightly OMGUS-y from my perspective, of course, but that's a pretty poor indicator too, especially as he's reconsidered.  

That said, this could also be coaching, and if 3SC does flip wolf, we should take another look at Snow, since she's the source of the initial information that this was town behavior for him and the one providing him with an opportunity to walk it back now; if they're partnered that was a decently deniable soft defense. 

Zelphas wriggled out  of providing any information at all. There's a _reason_ that I provided an alternative to analyzing everyone else, people. You always (well, with the exception of some games that are very bastard indeed) have information on yourself, and while you don't have to provide everything, being able to make some judgements about who is and isn't lying later on is useful and requires we have _something_ to go on. 

So, combine with the fact that this gives us information on what Bladescape is thinking (important for determining if Blade's town or not, important before we hit the point where it's desperately needed information to have) and I'm gonna stick with "Zelphas is my top wolf read". 

JeenLeen: As town as town can be, for obvious reasons. 

Snow: Solvy enough to be town for now? Kind of a gut read based on having seen a lot of Town Snow and this fitting, but see above about 3SC.  

AlephNull: I have no idea how to coherently parse several of these posts into a logically grounded position; this could be wolfy, or it could be legitimate confusion. Still something of a wolf-lean.

----------


## Batcathat

Alright, I guess it's back to *Zelphas* for now. I'll try to check out the other wagons and see if something pops. I'm tempted to trust Snow and vote Aleph (who I have basically no lean on at the moment) instead of Zelphas (who I keep going back and forth on), but since I don't know whether I _can_ trust Snow, I should probably try to figure things out myself.

- - - Updated - - -

Huh, just noticed Book is also a credible wagon I don't really have any strong feelings on. I should try and get those.

----------


## Taffimai

My first two wolfleans this game were Cultist and JeenLeen, so I'm full of confidence right now  :Small Annoyed: 

Batcathat is acting with more confidence than I'd expect. Xumtiil has very little content for being so high on the posters list. Xihirli is giving me the heebie-jeebies by roleplaying something unobtrusive.

I have exactly one townread other than the people who have claimed: Snow. Defending Cultist when she did the way she did is a town tell, not one she couldn't fake but one I think she wouldn't.

- - - Updated - - -




> Alright, I guess it's back to *Zelphas* for now. I'll try to check out the other wagons and see if something pops. I'm tempted to trust Snow and vote Aleph (who I have basically no lean on at the moment) instead of Zelphas (who I keep going back and forth on), but since I don't know whether I _can_ trust Snow, I should probably try to figure things out myself.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Huh, just noticed Book is also a credible wagon I don't really have any strong feelings on. I should try and get those.


 :Small Annoyed:

----------


## Xumtiil

Cassie says Jeen is clumsy
They will be left alone
Book is just full of whimsy
This is very well known

Zelphas is quite uncertain
But not for me suspect
For *Aleph* falls the curtain
As fur I do expect.

----------


## Batcathat

So, I didn't really get anywhere with Aleph's posts (maybe a very slight wolflean but that might just be me wanting to find one). As for BW, it felt like quite a lot of posts for being him and the general pace of the game, but very little content (which is lampshaded at least twice). That feels out of character enough (and my read on Zelphas is shaky enough) that I'll say *Book Wombat*.

----------


## bladescape

Guys. You're not supposed to just sheep me when I say something vague and mysterious

----------


## Xumtiil

> So, I didn't really get anywhere with Aleph's posts (maybe a very slight wolflean but that might just be me wanting to find one). As for BW, it felt like quite a lot of posts for being him and the general pace of the game, but very little content (which is lampshaded at least twice). That feels out of character enough (and my read on Zelphas is shaky enough) that I'll say *Book Wombat*.


I smell a rat
If you had seriously looked
All of the replies of Wombat
Were to questions I've put

- - - Updated - - -




> Guys. You're not supposed to just sheep me when I say something vague and mysterious


Baa baabaa baa baa
baaaa baabaabaa baaa baaa baaaaaa
baaaaaabaaaabaaa baaabaa

----------


## Aleph Null

Ah. Forgive me for not being well-versed in these sorts of games.

In that case, I would put an OMGUS vote out in response to Xumtiil but the lack of any argument at all means I'll just jump on the *Zelphas* wagon for now in hopes that I can get a bit more time to figure out exactly what I might have missed in previous posts.
I'm having a bit of trouble keeping up because of work, but hopefully I can get a bit more info before I make any real judgments here. I have a hunch that the reasons bladescape mentioned were RNG-related, but since the lack of available information D1 makes a sound decision impossible that's basically what this is anyway.

EDIT: Xumtiiil posted while I was typing this, but 2 things:
1) In what universe does "looked" rhyme with "put"?
2) Nice haiku. Allow me to respond with a haiku of my own:
Random words are fun
I like to say random things
Pasta Bolognese.

...um, anyway.

----------


## Batcathat

> I smell a rat
> If you had seriously looked
> All of the replies of Wombat
> Were to questions I've put


I'm not sure what you mean, you're right that like two of BW's post were in response to you, but I don't see what that'd change.

----------


## bladescape

> I have a hunch that the reasons bladescape mentioned were RNG-related, but since the lack of available information D1 makes a sound decision impossible that's basically what this is anyway.


If I ever use RNG I will mention it. I hate basing things off RNG.

The reasons I had were weak and still are.

But also considering who would be a better swap.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

I stand by "he's as suspicious as anyone and information on you is valuable". But obviously that's not true _for you_, so...

----------


## Taffimai

> I'm not sure what you mean, you're right that like two of BW's post were in response to you, but I don't see what that'd change.


One of your reasons for voting Wombat is that he's posting more than usual. He's posting more because Xumtiil asked him questions, so now that you know that it should change your view (I assumed you ISO'd Wombat and then the quotes don't show up). Not having reads D1 (or ever...) is also not out of line for Wombat, and you know that. You're putting him in a catch-22 where if he posts more, he gets voted for it, and if he doesn't he gets voted for "being hard to read". Ngl I absolutely hate the reasons for your vote.

----------


## Murska

Well, fortunately I checked the thread before going to sleep. I'll be travelling for the weekend and so won't be around until some time into D2, probably.

*Aleph Null* strikes me as someone who's trying to get people lynched but not trying to figure out if they're actually wolves. That's a bad look.

----------


## Taffimai

Addendum: I'd swap my vote to Batcathat if only people would get off of JeenLeen.

----------


## Batcathat

> One of your reasons for voting Wombat is that he's posting more than usual. He's posting more because Xumtiil asked him questions, so now that you know that it should change your view (I assumed you ISO'd Wombat and then the quotes don't show up). Not having reads D1 (or ever...) is also not out of line for Wombat, and you know that. You're putting him in a catch-22 where if he posts more, he gets voted for it, and if he doesn't he gets voted for "being hard to read". Ngl I absolutely hate the reasons for your vote.


While I did feel BW posted more than usual, the "out of character" was more in reference to the lampshading his lack of content, which I feel isn't something he does all the time. But sure, it's certainly not a very solid case. I'm fine with Zelphas being the lynch, even if I did start questioning my lean on him.

- - - Updated - - -




> *Aleph Null* strikes me as someone who's trying to get people lynched but not trying to figure out if they're actually wolves. That's a bad look.


This is kind of a good point and in combination with Taff making me question my vote on BW, I'll go *Aleph Null* too. (Yes Taff, I realize this won't make me look any better in your eyes).

----------


## bladescape

> I stand by "he's as suspicious as anyone and information on you is valuable". But obviously that's not true _for you_, so...


I too like to know more about me.

----------


## Aleph Null

> While I did feel BW posted more than usual, the "out of character" was more in reference to the lampshading his lack of content, which I feel isn't something he does all the time. But sure, it's certainly not a very solid case. I'm fine with Zelphas being the lynch, even if I did start questioning my lean on him.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> This is kind of a good point and in combination with Taff making me question my vote on BW, I'll go *Aleph Null* too. (Yes Taff, I realize this won't make me look any better in your eyes).


I mean, ok, if you expect me to have any idea this early who's a wolf and who's not then you're being pretty unreasonable.
But, if you guys think that's possible then maybe I should learn to be better at this game, lol
I've played on other sites before, but generally speaking a d1 lynch is not mandatory and also there's a n0 where night actions other than the scum-team night kill can be taken first, which helps for, say, the cop/investigator to have an idea whom to wagon for. The lack of this really hurts, because it's truly a zero-information start, while in other settings there's at least one town player who knows the alignment of at least one other person in the game. That said, this site also uses roles I've never heard of before, so maybe there's a role that starts out with info like that anyway. It's impossible to tell.
I'm not going to make any claims, because we already have one person for the baner to perma-target, but I will say that it will be bad for you guys if I get lynched, even if that does put a target on my back for the wolves as well. There are probably worse targets for a mislynch, but due to the lack of a public role list I can't say for sure.

----------


## Snowblaze

Was going to check in, leave a legacy and sleep but I guess I have an actual meaningful decision to make now. 

Let's see:
Zelphas 5: bladescape, Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen, Taffimai, Aleph Null
Aleph Null 4: Snowblaze, Xumtiil, Murska, Batcathat 
Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Zelphas
Snowblaze 2: Let'sGetKraken, Book Wombat
3SecondCultist 2: Xihirli, Ilven
JeenLeen 1: 3SecondCultist 
Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus

I'm retracting my BCH townlean due to their recent vote switches, though I... can't really see what their wolfy agenda is atm, will give that more thought tomorrow but aorn won't be voting them. 

So... reads list.

Innocent Child: JeenLeen 
Townleans: Murska, Taffimai, 3SecondCultist, Lady Serpentine 
Null: Cazero, Xihirli, Persolus, bladescape, Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
Pending further thought: Batcathat
A tiny bit below null but gets a day pass for being new: Ilven
Exists and is pretty much null despite high post count which is maybe a concern in itself: Xumtiil
I have thin reasons to suspect this person but can't work out whether I actually believe them: Zelphas 
Kind of wolflean but also I wasn't expecting him to actually be a wagon and now he is I'm second-guessing myself: Aleph Null
In need of sleep: Snowblaze

So... actually I don't really have strong opinions on which of Zelphas/Aleph we kill. Which I guess means staying on the latter for now to keep wagons close together. 

See you flipside.

----------


## Taffimai

JeenLeen 1: 3SecondCultist
Zelphas 5: bladescape, Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen, Taffimai, Aleph
3SecondCultist 2: Xihirli, Ilven
Snowblaze 2: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Zelphas, 
Murska 1: Aleph Null
Aleph Null 4: Snowblaze, Xumtiil, Murska, Batcathat
Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus

I did a lazy votecount and now I have 18 people voting but I can't find the double, someone help me.

*This votecount is off*

----------


## bladescape

> I mean, ok, if you expect me to have any idea this early who's a wolf and who's not then you're being pretty unreasonable.
> But, if you guys think that's possible then maybe I should learn to be better at this game, lol
> I've played on other sites before, but generally speaking a d1 lynch is not mandatory and also there's a n0 where night actions other than the scum-team night kill can be taken first, which helps for, say, the cop/investigator to have an idea whom to wagon for. The lack of this really hurts, because it's truly a zero-information start, while in other settings there's at least one town player who knows the alignment of at least one other person in the game. That said, this site also uses roles I've never heard of before, so maybe there's a role that starts out with info like that anyway. It's impossible to tell.
> I'm not going to make any claims, because we already have one person for the baner to perma-target, but I will say that it will be bad for you guys if I get lynched, even if that does put a target on my back for the wolves as well. There are probably worse targets for a mislynch, but due to the lack of a public role list I can't say for sure.


Zero Information means you need to be good at cold-reading people's actions and choices.

It's an imprecise art but absolutely possible.

----------


## Batcathat

> JeenLeen 1: 3SecondCultist
> Zelphas 5: bladescape, Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen, Taffimai, Aleph
> 3SecondCultist 2: Xihirli, Ilven
> Snowblaze 2: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
> Book Wombat 2: Cazero, Zelphas, 
> Murska 1: Aleph Null
> Aleph Null 4: Snowblaze, Xumtiil, Murska, Batcathat
> Lady Serpentine 1: Persolus
> 
> ...


You seem to have Aleph voting both Murska and Zelphas (the latter is the correct one, I think).

----------


## Taffimai

Perfect, thank you Snow. *Batcathat* and see you all tomorrow

----------


## Aleph Null

> Zero Information means you need to be good at cold-reading people's actions and choices.
> 
> It's an imprecise art but absolutely possible.


Ah, no wonder I suck at this game. Even in real-life circumstances I couldn't cold read someone to save my life, let alone in an online forum game that I don't have the ability to pay full attention to at all times :P

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> I too like to know more about me.


Look, an extant philosopher!

Seriously though, I don't feel like voting Zelphas right now. I don't see how they are particularly wolfy, and voting for someone because there are no suitable alternatives is fallacious and dumb. 

BookWombat hasn't done anything particularly scummy to my eyes either, and I'm giving AN a pass based on their pseudo-claim just now.

... which puts me at a No Lynch position. I just don't feel confident enough to jump on a wagon right now. Until someone makes an actual case that I can get behind, but I don't see that happening before EoD at this point.

- - - Updated - - -




> Zero Information means you need to be good at cold-reading people's actions and choices.
> 
> It's an imprecise art but absolutely possible.


For a moment I was looking at this and agreeing, but only because in my head I read it as 'it's a precise art but absolutely impossible'. Which I like better than what you said, to be honest.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## bladescape

> Look, an extant philosopher!
> 
> Seriously though, I don't feel like voting Zelphas right now. I don't see how they are particularly wolfy, and voting for someone because there are no suitable alternatives is fallacious and dumb. 
> 
> BookWombat hasn't done anything particularly scummy to my eyes either, and I'm giving AN a pass based on their pseudo-claim just now.
> 
> ... which puts me at a *No Lynch* position. I just don't feel confident enough to jump on a wagon right now. Until someone makes an actual case that I can get behind, but I don't see that happening before EoD at this point.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


I'm going to point out that I have a reasonable record of finding a wolf D1/D2 based off cold reading which is well above rand, so counterpoint.  :Small Tongue:  

That being said...

*Let's Get Kraken*

For new reasons.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Well I won't be joining you on _that_ wagon. I know people do sometimes claim IRL stuff interfering as a reason for inactivity as a smokescreen, but I refuse to treat it that way because that sucks when you are telling the truth, so in my opinion doing that at best trades a short-term tactical advantage for a long-term negative impact on how fun these games are.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> I'm going to point out that I have a reasonable record of finding a wolf D1/D2 based off cold reading which is well above rand, so counterpoint.  
> 
> That being said...
> 
> *Let's Get Kraken*
> 
> For new reasons.


Yeah, I am not hopping onto a wagon here for your reasons if you will not at least outline why I should. Even in really basic terms.




> Well I won't be joining you on _that_ wagon. I know people do sometimes claim IRL stuff interfering as a reason for inactivity as a smokescreen, but I refuse to treat it that way because that sucks when you are telling the truth, so in my opinion doing that at best trades a short-term tactical advantage for a long-term negative impact on how fun these games are.


Ugh, see I know _for a fact_ that Kraken is telling the truth rather than just this being a smokescreen, because we talk outside the game (not about the game, but hes a good friend so we talk about life etc). Which in a roundabout way gives me knowledge I should not have, even though neither of us have ever talked below the table during a W/W game.

Anyway, yeah I will not be voting Kraken now.

----------


## bladescape

> Well I won't be joining you on _that_ wagon. I know people do sometimes claim IRL stuff interfering as a reason for inactivity as a smokescreen, but I refuse to treat it that way because that sucks when you are telling the truth, so in my opinion doing that at best trades a short-term tactical advantage for a long-term negative impact on how fun these games are.


Oh no, that's not the reason at all.

And yes I 100% agree with that.

- - - Updated - - -

Actively unvoting now because I feel bad if that ends up a thing

----------


## bladescape

*Zelphas*

Back here.

----------


## Zelphas

I don't think claiming will keep me alive here, but here it is: I'm a neutral survivor. You're all about to kill your teacher. The only thing I care about concerning Protagonist-san is if he's turned in his poem on time.

For the sake of my own survival, I will switch to *Aleph Null*. Bladescape's vote doesn't even make this a tie, but it's what I can do for the moment.

- - - Updated - - -

Misread what Bladescape did; it is a tie. Still, not great odds for me.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

Hm, okay. *Zelphas*, for the end of the day. Lets put this to the test.

- - - Updated - - -

To be clear, Im with the rest of the people on this thread who dislike survivor claims. Therefore, I want to see whether you really are what you say you are. If you are a neutral survivor, your dying D1 is still better than a town mislynch.

I didnt have a reason to vote you. Now I do.

----------


## Zelphas

Should've seen that coming. Nothing of value is lost in the large scale of the game, I suppose. It wouldn't be a true murderous High School Harem Comedy of the teacher/guardian didn't die first, right?

Have fun, everyone!

----------


## AvatarVecna

Day has ended, tallying votes...

- - - Updated - - -

*Episode 1-A Has Ended*

*Spoiler: Most Recent Votes*
Show




> *Lady Serpentine*





> *Book Wombat*





> *Snowblaze*





> *Snowblaze*





> *3secondcultist*





> *Zelphas*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *Zelphas*





> *Aleph Null*





> *Aleph*





> *Zelphas*





> *Aleph Null*





> *Aleph Null*





> *Batcathat*





> *Zelphas*





> *Aleph Null*





> *Zelphas*


I'm using most recent votes, and these are they. Crossing out old votes will be more helpful for getting these votecounts put together quicker on my part, since I've spent like the last half hour making sure I didn't miss something.

Lady Serpentine (1): Persolus
Book Wombat (1): Cazero
Snowblaze (2): Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken
3SecondCultist (2): Illven, Xihirli
Zelphas (5): Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen, Aleph Null, bladescape, 3SecondCultist
Aleph Null (5): Snowblaze, Xumtiil, Murska, Batcathat, Zelphas
Batcathat (1): Taffimai

Per rules in the OP, ties are broken randomly.


Throughout the day, while Cassie searched for clues, the various other girls came to a silent agreement to help their nerdiest member eliminate themselves from the running. They set them up, feeding opportunities to gush about all kinds of nerdy things. Cassie didn't seem to mind the topic, but the near-constant nature of the conversation drifting away from solving the mystery and drifting back onto which superheroes could beat each other up seemed to be getting on her nerves. When they reached the abandoned warehouse, Cassie split the group up...and Aleph Null was left wandering alone. She didn't get much screentime after that.

*Aleph Null* has been lynched. They were *The Geek Girl*.




> You are the Geek Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you saw this in a movie once! Each night, select one player. You learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice).


*Episode 1-B Will End in ~24 Hours*

----------


## Illven

Possibly dumb question, but is it possible for a wolf power, or game effect to falsely reveal a lynched character's "class"

----------


## Zelphas

I'm alive? That's honestly unexpected. Something is off about the votes, then.

Well, let's see what I can do while I'm still living.

----------


## AvatarVecna

> Possibly dumb question, but is it possible for a wolf power, or game effect to falsely reveal a lynched character's "class"


It wasn't 100% clear in the recruitment thread, since I just talked about vote manipulation powers, but I'll clarify: both the process and the results of the lynch are sacred. There will be no powers screwing with vote totals, no day baners, no fake-reveals. The innocent child doesn't even remove people's votes. I am unfond of mechanics that mess with the feedback player's receive on the gamestate.

----------


## JeenLeen

Thinking back on it, it makes sense I got that power and role given how I klutz myself into looking wolfy rather often.

Of course, this game I knew I had that backup, so I didn't overly mind looking wolfy.  But the D1 lynch really stinks; I'd have rather soaked it than lost someone who could scry.

I'll plan to check in Saturday and Sunday night, but I might be relatively offline the next phase.

----------


## Snowblaze

...welp. That is bad. Sorry, Aleph.

Anyway, yeah, I tentatively believe the Zelphas claim. I think it fits fairly well with his D1 and a wolf would fakeclaim something that gave him a better chance of living. 

Which I guess leaves me back to zero wolfreads. Delightful.

Proper thoughts to come when I actually have them.

----------


## Cazero

Nerds have seer powers? Life is like, so unfair !

There's only one rational response to this.
I'm starting the Nerd Bonking Association. When a nerd start nerding, you bonk'em in the head and shout 'Nerd !'.
With any chance, this will save other potential seers. Who's with me?

----------


## Xumtiil

My feeling was wrong
Aleph was just a nerd
My embarrassment is strong
My reads apparently absurd.

This night I will stay mum
At dawn more verse will come.

----------


## Taffimai

> Hm, okay. *Zelphas*, for the end of the day. Lets put this to the test.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> To be clear, Im with the rest of the people on this thread who dislike survivor claims. Therefore, I want to see whether you really are what you say you are. If you are a neutral survivor, your dying D1 is still better than a town mislynch.
> 
> I didnt have a reason to vote you. Now I do.


Just to be perfectly clear on this, I disagree most heartily. Of course it would have been better had Aleph not died, not just mechanically but because getting D1ed is not exactly a warm "welcome back" for someone who's been gone a long time and didn't get to play much back then either. I hope the spectators in deadchat make up for the disappointing experience. However, Zelphas is a person too, and he did not choose his rand. Telling someone you want them, specifically, to lose a game just so you gain a small mechanical advantage is an anti-fun attitude. You didn't like being D1ed either, and not only did you know you could still contribute to that game after death, you could still win.

In my first five games, I ended up a Survivor twice, and it's a very isolating experience to be part of a team game where literally everybody knows you're not a part of their team and at best ignores your existence until they need you, at worst is 100% ready to screw you over if it suits them. Nobody signs up hoping for that, and you don't even get the satisfaction of murdering people in their sleep like an SK.





> I'm alive? That's honestly unexpected. Something is off about the votes, then.
> 
> Well, let's see what I can do while I'm still living.


I recommend hard townsiding and an amusing roleplay  :Small Smile: 

Also next time, if you need to claim anything (like a PR), it's better to do it sooner in the day so people have time to think about where to move their vote. I'm pretty sure (or at least very hopeful) that different wagons would've been formed had you and Aleph claimed earlier (like JeenLeen did).

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Hmmm. I'd missed it earlier, but... I don't see anyone else saying they dislike survivor claims. In fact, nobody else had posted at all after that claim, except Zelphas, whose post was _after_ 3SC mentioned it (and who's the survivor in question, to boot). 

So, who are those "other people" 3SC is talking about? We haven't had a night for there to be private town chats yet, so that looks to me like an instance of a wolf forgetting what was said where.

----------


## Zelphas

> I recommend hard townsiding and an amusing roleplay 
> 
> Also next time, if you need to claim anything (like a PR), it's better to do it sooner in the day so people have time to think about where to move their vote. I'm pretty sure (or at least very hopeful) that different wagons would've been formed had you and Aleph claimed earlier (like JeenLeen did).


Class, regardless of the... informative analysis of Miss Arthurs, please remember to get your schoolwork in on time. Individual assignments are due by the morning. If you need any help on subjects, you can always come to me, and I can set you up with a tutor.

That's solid advice; I waffled on claiming for too long and didn't give people enough time to switch. Hopefully I'll get slightly better with each game and become competent some ten games from now or so. :P

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Episode 1-B Has Ended*

Panting with exertion, Cassie yanked on the rope, and the person in the very offensive zombie costume was entangled in a net trap! With the cops close on her tail, Cassie bounded forward and began explaining exactly who was under the mask, and why they had committed the crimes they did.

But then, shock! The cops arrested...Xihirli??? On absolutely baseless kidnapping charges? And Snowblaze was her accomplice? Cassie was very put off by the cops arresting her crime-solving sidekicks, but couldn't really do much other than stamp her feet as they got back in their patrol cars and LEFT THE ACTUAL CRIMINAL HANGING FROM A NET.

"I mean, I thought you did a pretty good job figuring out my scheme," the man offered diplomatically, still upside down and muffled by his rubber mask.

Cassie glared at him.

Snowblaze has been killed. They were *The Theatre Girl*.




> You are the Theatre Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> My Big Break: You've just gotta support me on this, pretty please! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.


Xihirli has been killed. They were *The Vigilante Girl*.




> You are the Vigilante Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.
> 
> Protective Custody: It's not kidnapping if it's for their own good! Each night, select one player. They cannot be targeted by any power except this one tonight, but also they cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones.


*Episode 2-A Ends in ~48 Hours*

----------


## JeenLeen

Very few used their power to network with me last night, so I got almost nothing on the basis of creating an info hub.
Seems a bad start to the game that we've lost two powered townies.

No real reads yet.  Snowblaze flipping town likely gives some info, but I haven't thought over what yet.  Not sure anyone had a read on Xi's mostly-RP stuff D1, so not much to get from her death.

I presume that, if I had been baned by Xi, nobody would have been able to network with me.  So that didn't happen.  But neither did she bane herself, or she couldn't've been killed?  Interesting.
And two kills?  Vigilante?

----------


## Taffimai

_Shall I compare thee to a Werewolf Game?
Thou art more clever and more intricate:
Rough vigs do quake the townies with their aim,
And final vote hath all too short a date:

Sometime too hot the tone of posting sounds,
And often is thus voice of reason dimmed;
And accusation based on shaky grounds,
Then players left by their mistakes, unwimmed:

But thy eternal cunning shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that wit thou owst;
Nor shall foe brag thou fellst for their thrown shade
When in eternal lines to time thou growst:

So long as one can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.


rhyming is banal
and shakespeare was an old hack
She deserves better_

- - - Updated - - -




> Very few used their power to network with me last night, so I got almost nothing on the basis of creating an info hub.
> Seems a bad start to the game that we've lost two powered townies.
> 
> No real reads yet.  Snowblaze flipping town likely gives some info, but I haven't thought over what yet.  Not sure anyone had a read on Xi's mostly-RP stuff D1, so not much to get from her death.
> 
> I presume that, if I had been baned by Xi, nobody would have been able to network with me.  So that didn't happen.  But neither did she bane herself, or she couldn't've been killed?  Interesting.
> And two kills?  Vigilante?


Keep in mind that PRs can't network so maybe don't give out the names of who is or isn't talking to you. It's almost certainly an SK given AV's dislike of vigs.

----------


## Persolus

> Keep in mind that PRs can't network so maybe don't give out the names of who is or isn't talking to you. It's almost certainly an SK given AV's dislike of vigs.


Notice that Theatre Girl states "any two players," so that point is moot.

----------


## Xumtiil

> _Shall I compare thee to a Werewolf Game?
> Thou art more clever and more intricate:
> Rough vigs do quake the townies with their aim,
> And final vote hath all too short a date:
> 
> Sometime too hot the tone of posting sounds,
> And often is thus voice of reason dimmed;
> And accusation based on shaky grounds,
> Then players left by their mistakes, unwimmed:
> ...


As I stated before
Taffy's rhymes are real
Where hers are quality
Quantity is my big deal

There is no vig,
I'm not it, and therefore
If you check my sig
You'll know why I'm sure.

Double checking I need to do
Because reads are poor
There's one thing that's true
Last night was full of gore.

----------


## bladescape

> Notice that Theatre Girl states "any two players," so that point is moot.


Got any thoughts my loquacious friend?

----------


## Taffimai

*@Bladescape* when you moved off of Zelphas yesterday, you went to Kraken instead of joining me on Batcathat. Do you think Batcathat is town?


I would like everybody who had no reads yesterday to try to give at least one today. "Player X is wolf/town because of Y"
No rush.

----------


## Batcathat

Well, this is a slow day. Wish I could contribute with something to get the discussion going, but I think most of my reads remain from D1. Not sure what to think of Zelphas' claim, it could be a hail mary from a wolf or a legit claim that's a bit badly timed. The fact that Zelphas implies the roles fluff makes me a little more trusting of it, I think. 

I think the second NK is more likely to be SK than vig for the very unscientific reason that it seems unnecessarily confusing to have both a role called Vigilante Girl and the role generally referred to as a Vigilante.

----------


## Xumtiil

> *@Bladescape* when you moved off of Zelphas yesterday, you went to Kraken instead of joining me on Batcathat. Do you think Batcathat is town?
> 
> 
> I would like everybody who had no reads yesterday to try to give at least one today. "Player X is wolf/town because of Y"
> No rush.


*Batcathat* is not exonerated
I think he's a scallywag
The push for Book was so fabricated
I could still see the price tag

----------


## Lady Serpentine

I'm still inclined to push *3SecondCultist* for that bit about other people disliking survivor claims when nobody but the survivor had said anything. That's a mistake that seems legitimately hard to make in circumstances that arenn't mixing up what was said in public and what wasn't.

----------


## Book Wombat

Well damn, not a very good night. 
As for reads... well JeenLeen is town! Will try to have another look through the thread, maybe something will pop up.

----------


## bladescape

> *@Bladescape* when you moved off of Zelphas yesterday, you went to Kraken instead of joining me on Batcathat. Do you think Batcathat is town?
> 
> 
> I would like everybody who had no reads yesterday to try to give at least one today. "Player X is wolf/town because of Y"
> No rush.


He did a thing which I'm gonna give room to.

- - - Updated - - -

Might change that read later if I feel cute

----------


## Cazero

> _poetry_


Nerd ! _*bonk*_



> _poetry_


Neeerd ! _*bonk*_

Also, after rereading I realised I completely misread 3SC. You get a preemptive bonk for probably being a nerd ! _*bonk*_

Remember, I do this for your own safety !


As for an actual contribution, I don't have much.
I could vote *Murska* as he felt very aggressive for a D1?

----------


## Murska

I'm back home now. Aggressive is good, and I won't apologize for driving the game out of RVS and pushing discussion.

I'll reread and see if I get any gut reads, then see about isoing a few of the people I'm more cautious about. If anyone's got any questions or wants to point me at specific people, please do.

----------


## bladescape

> I'm back home now. Aggressive is good, and I won't apologize for driving the game out of RVS and pushing discussion.
> 
> I'll reread and see if I get any gut reads, then see about isoing a few of the people I'm more cautious about. If anyone's got any questions or wants to point me at specific people, please do.


Ignoring irl I would like your thoughts on Kraken's movements on D1.

- - - Updated - - -

Or if not that then Cazero or Illven.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a mild wolfread on Cazero but I had the same read on Cazero last game and they were town so I'm going to guess that they play in a style that I see as wolf a lot, so I'm holding off on wagoning there.

- - - Updated - - -

I do also want to hear more from Persolus.

- - - Updated - - -

*3SecondCultist*

Upon reflection I'll start here.

----------


## Murska

Okay, my read of D1 with comments written as I go:

*3SecondCultist*
 - As mentioned, I didn't like their opening much. 
 - Didn't really redeem themselves very much over the course of the day, but no other truly bad posts either. 
*Batcathat*
 - Reads list, post 73. Waffles on Cultist. Waffles on Ti. Waffles on me. Waffles on Snow. Waffles on Zelphas. Nothing on anyone else. Wow, this is a terrible list. Super wolfy on re-read. Especially on me: "What he's saying makes sense, but I have an unexplainable gut read against him." And what am I supposed to do about that? It's just an excuse not to be on the wagon.
 - JeenLeen wagon shows up pretty quickly, BCH jumps on it. I did, too, so throwing stones here is a bit sketchy from me, but it was a wagon on a townie.
 - Sheeps me on to Aleph too, after a brief stint on BW. Gives me the creeps.
*bladescape*
 - Swaps from me to Zelphas when my wagon gets some traction. Probably pressure vote since Zelphas had only posted a random (ew, dice) vote at this point.
*Book Wombat*
 - The very first 2nd vote on someone. It was Snow, though, so probably still just RVS.
*Cazero*
*Illven*
*JeenLeen*
 - Conftown
*Lady Serpentine*
 - More pressure on 3SC. Asks questions along with the pressure vote.
 - Swaps to Snow with a pressure vote after 3SC answers the questions. I don't like this one as much.
 - Swaps to Zelphas for another pressure vote right after bladescape. I didn't like the Snow wagon and I did like the Zelphas wagon, but I'd have liked a bit more oomph into the pressure, especially actual discussion of answers given. Still, at least she's solving so gets a pass for now.
*Let'sGetKraken*
 - Third vote on Snow with zero given reasoning. Hmm. Iffy. At this point I'd made a case on 3SC with some traction and this vote tied the wagons, so I think this makes a link between Kraken and 3SC a bit more likely.
*Persolus*
*Taffimai*
 - 2nd vote on Kraken, pressure vote because the Snow wagon was suspicious. I like this one.
 - Pushes Zelphas into being the main counterwagon to JeenLeen. This I think basically ensures Zelphas/Taffi aren't w/w.
 - Swaps off Zelphas and on to BCH near EoD, completely off-wagon. I don't get it. Pointless vote, unless they're... uh, defending Zelphas maybe? I don't know.
*Xumtiil*
 - Several interesting wagons going on, Xumtiil throws a lone vote on to Persolus with no discussion of the other targets. I don't like this vote, even though it's disguised as a pressure vote, because it gives no pressure. It's just a vote to avoid being on a town wagon, I think.
 - When asked about Xihirli and Snow, waffles on both.
 - Swaps on to Book Wombat later. Again off-wagon.
 - Swaps on to Aleph and defends Book Wombat once BW has become a potential wagon target. Possible pairing there.
*Zelphas*
 - Survivor claim. I don't get the survivor role - why does it exist? What's the point? Well, they certainly tried their best with vote swaps to avoid getting killed, but I'd rather believe they're a wolf and that a survivor doesn't exist, because ew.




> Ignoring irl I would like your thoughts on Kraken's movements on D1.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Or if not that then Cazero or Illven.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I have a mild wolfread on Cazero but I had the same read on Cazero last game and they were town so I'm going to guess that they play in a style that I see as wolf a lot, so I'm holding off on wagoning there.
> ...


Very interesting questions. Namely, because I saw these after writing my list and you're literally asking about the very people I don't have any comments on, which means the people who flew mostly under the radar and didn't do anything that popped out D1. I like that, it makes me think blade is towny and has noticed the same thing. As for Kraken, I've got the one note above. Another mention would be that they said they would vote for Zelphas but didn't - might be just being busy, but why would you post "I want to vote X" and not vote for them? What's the point of announcing it beforehand?

I'll definitely go iso Cazero, Illven and Persolus now.

----------


## bladescape

Either a clever pocket or Murska is town.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

----------


## Illven

> I'm still inclined to push *3SecondCultist* for that bit about other people disliking survivor claims when nobody but the survivor had said anything. That's a mistake that seems legitimately hard to make in circumstances that arenn't mixing up what was said in public and what wasn't.


In addition, Xi was the first person to vote for 3second, and they ended up dead. Revenge perhaps.

*3secondcultist*

----------


## bladescape

Bold ya vote.

----------


## Murska

*Persolus - 5 posts*




> Hello everyone! I'm Persolus and think that you shouldn't kill me first round!
> 
> yeah yeah, i, like, _totally_ don't dig Lady Serpentine's vibes
> she's like completely not chill at all, even _google_ thinks she's weird
> Cass - i can call you cass right? good - you should hang out with me instead
> 
> *Lady Serpentine*, by order of the allmighty Google Random Number Generator, you are my start-off vote.


Opening post. Random vote. Trying a bit too much to act casual? Doesn't scream town to me.




> A "Wagon" is a bunch of people voting on the same person. You "jump on a wagon" by voting for someone who already has a bunch of votes. A D1 Wagon is a Wagon that forms on *D*ay *1*. 
> [other related abbreviations are N1 - night one, EoD1 - end of day 1, LYLO - LYnch or LOse i.e. there are so few people left that if town goofs up on who to kill it's game over]


Big warning sign. Posting 'helpful advice' or rules clarifications or explaining terms without providing anything of value to actually hunting wolves. This is what happens when a wolf wants to look like they're contributing without actually contributing.




> ughhh, do you even read? it's, like, the same thing i say at the start of every game
> plus, i'm, like, _totally_ town, it's just, i have a life too, ya know?
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I've counted wrong:
> *3SecondCultist - 3* Xihirli, Murska, Ilven
> 
> *Snowblaze - 2* Let'sGetKraken, Book Wombat
> ...


Guess what's another thing wolves do to seem helpful without contributing? That's right, vote counts!




> Notice that Theatre Girl states "any two players," so that point is moot.


And another one! Literally three of their five posts are big wolf-tells. Whoo boy.

*Persolus*

- - - Updated - - -

*Cazero - 6 posts*

Null opening. Mostly RP in posts. But I think they're town for some of the posts they've made, and I'm not going to elaborate. However, they really should put some work into solving, however nerdy that might seem. Pull your weight.

*Illven - 7 posts*

Joins my case on 3SC... without actually saying that's what they're doing, apparently 'by accident'? I think that's not something a wolf would do. A wolf would probably read the thread, and maybe join the wagon (assuming they want to put a vote there) by saying something like "I agree with your reasoning", not make up a different reason. Although wolves can be oblivious and accidentally join wagons too, but they're maybe more likely to pay attention.

Overall, they mostly seem pretty clueless and I get a town vibe out of that. Definitely no coaching going on. 




> Possibly dumb question, but is it possible for a wolf power, or game effect to falsely reveal a lynched character's "class"


This post seems somehow off tone though.

- - - Updated - - -




> I'm still inclined to push *3SecondCultist* for that bit about other people disliking survivor claims when nobody but the survivor had said anything. That's a mistake that seems legitimately hard to make in circumstances that arenn't mixing up what was said in public and what wasn't.


Now that I've read day 2 as well, this is actually a good point.

----------


## bladescape

I now have a Murska living somewhat in my head.

----------


## Taffimai

My thoughts on the four "wagons":

*Batcathat*: I still think he was wolfy yesterday, and today he has... commented on the neutral and the NKs  :Small Sigh:  But if Bladescape is town then he's more likely to be correct than I am, and if he's a wolf he wouldn't so pointedly have ignored my Batcathat vote yesterday if they're partners, so then it's more likely tmi. Also I'd prefer not to make the same mistake again so soon.

*Cultist*: I would prefer not to kill Cultist today. Baa Snow baaa. Would enjoy reads though.

*Murska*: I can follow the logic behind his reads so I'm leaning town. Either way I'm not willing to vote someone who is actually solving until much closer to LyLo.

*Persolus*: In Utropia he was one of the most obvious towns and now he's not. Awaiting read(s).


There are too many people not participating to solve this game. I don't want to see an F5 full of people with under 10 posts each.

----------


## JeenLeen

Murska is persuasive.  I'm willing to go for *Persolus*

*@Zelphas:* I find your role a little questionable.  Want to give the power details?

- - - Updated - - -

For what little it's worth, I got confirmation from AV that, if Xi had targeted me, any networking involving me would have failed.
Also, everyone who has networked with me says they targeted me and themself.

----------


## Zelphas

> Nerd ! _*bonk*_
> 
> Neeerd ! _*bonk*_
> 
> Also, after rereading I realised I completely misread 3SC. You get a preemptive bonk for probably being a nerd ! _*bonk*_
> 
> Remember, I do this for your own safety !


Safety or no, I will _not_ have violence in this class, even if we're on this 'unorthodox field trip'! Please restrain yourself from, erm, _bonk_-ing your classmates. And I still haven't seen your poem...




> *@Zelphas:* I find your role a little questionable.  Want to give the power details?


I can give a part of it at this point, sure! I'm the Teacher Girl, neutral. I win if I'm still in the game by the time that it ends.

I have the "Tutoring" power, which lets me put two people of my choice into a private chat. I missed JeenLeen's request for contact last night, or else I probably would've picked them.

---

Regarding the conversation that's currently going on: I don't know if I agree with Murska's tells on Persolus; clarifying advice and vote counts both seem really helpful to new players just coming in, and since Persolus was until recently brand new to these games I could see him just trying to help out.

I think I'm going to place my vote on *3SecondCultist* until I can sit down and actually formulate opinions tomorrow before EoD, though the vote feels a bit too much like OMGUS from Day 1 even as I write it.

- - - Updated - - -

EDIT: I was replying to JeenLeen and talked about them in the third person. Great reading comprehension, me.

----------


## JeenLeen

> [COLOR="#8B4513"]
> I can give a part of it at this point, sure! I'm the Teacher Girl, neutral. I win if I'm still in the game by the time that it ends.
> 
> I have the "Tutoring" power, which lets me put two people of my choice into a private chat. I missed JeenLeen's request for contact last night, or else I probably would've picked them.
> 
> ---
> 
> Regarding the conversation that's currently going on: I don't know if I agree with Murska's tells on Persolus; clarifying advice and vote counts both seem really helpful to new players just coming in, and since Persolus was until recently brand new to these games I could see him just trying to help out.
> 
> I think I'm going to place my vote on *3SecondCultist* until I can sit down and actually formulate opinions tomorrow before EoD, though the vote feels a bit too much like OMGUS from Day 1 even as I write it.


So you claim Survivor, but our power is the same as vanillager?
That seems... improbable.  I don't put it past game design, but I'd think the Survivor would have something to help them survive.  Usually there's some built-in immunity, JOAT, or something.   That said, I don't want to vote you just for getting an unlikely power set/role.

But if Persolus flips wolf and 3SC town, then you look a good bit wolfier based on your comments in this post.

- - - Updated - - -

On the other hand, if Zelphas were a lying wolf, that'd a pretty bad power to lie about hand-in-hand with being Survivor.  So pro-neutral points there, I guess.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> Hmmm. I'd missed it earlier, but... I don't see anyone else saying they dislike survivor claims. In fact, nobody else had posted at all after that claim, except Zelphas, whose post was _after_ 3SC mentioned it (and who's the survivor in question, to boot). 
> 
> So, who are those "other people" 3SC is talking about? We haven't had a night for there to be private town chats yet, so that looks to me like an instance of a wolf forgetting what was said where.


Yes, you caught me in a blatant TMI wolfspew on N1. Congratulations.

In this case, I am not referring to comments made in this thread, but in a past one. I forget which game it was that Cao was the Survivor (it was Tarot Club I think?), but there was a conversation in that game about at least a few other players disliking Survivor claims. Go back and check it if you dont believe me. IIRC it was Kraken who made those comments as well, along with others.

I am too tired to provide an updated reads list, but I will tomorrow certainly. I do not have a placeholder vote I feel passionate about, but will continue to vote Zelphas (for the same reasons I had before; better a Survivor get mislynched than a townie).

----------


## Persolus

First off, apologies for being very absent - school has decided to get unusually busy, but I will do my best to catch up on everything in a couple of hours.

A few quick things I can say before then:




> *Persolus*: In Utropia he was one of the most obvious towns and now he's not. Awaiting read(s).


Apologies, see above  :Small Tongue:  will get those in before (my) tomorrow!




> *Persolus - 5 posts*
> 
> Opening post. Random vote. Trying a bit too much to act casual? Doesn't scream town to me.


I said the precise same opening line in Utropia and Candy-Coated, and will probably continue to do so. If you're going to consider me as wolf, please don't let that line be the reason you decide.




> Big warning sign. Posting 'helpful advice' or rules clarifications or explaining terms without providing anything of value to actually hunting wolves. This is what happens when a wolf wants to look like they're contributing without actually contributing.


...I am attempting to provide the same service that I was _extremely_ grateful for other players providing to me in previous games. It also had the side benefit of something that was quick and easy to do, so as to fit into above-mentioned unexpected busyness.




> Guess what's another thing wolves do to seem helpful without contributing? That's right, vote counts!


...this literally took me a full 15 minutes due to a) how strangely organised some of the votes were, b) how well I understand this site's mechanics and c) how well my brain works. I primarily did the vote count to see if it would give me any insight on what was going on, and unfortunately, it didn't.

Also, my first game was Utropia, in which it was vitally important to fully understand rules and roles and how they might interact - i am realising that this is not the case in most games, and am trying to avoid the tendency, but coupled with my designated role of what my family and friends refer to as "the talking rulebook" for new games, I appear to need to work a bit harder.




> So you claim Survivor, but our power is the same as vanillager?
> That seems... improbable.  I don't put it past game design, but I'd think the Survivor would have something to help them survive.  Usually there's some built-in immunity, JOAT, or something.   That said, I don't want to vote you just for getting an unlikely power set/role.
> 
> But if Persolus flips wolf and 3SC town, then you look a good bit wolfier based on your comments in this post.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> On the other hand, if Zelphas were a lying wolf, that'd a pretty bad power to lie about hand-in-hand with being Survivor.  So pro-neutral points there, I guess.


I would like to note that Zelphas did not state he _only_ had the Tutoring power, merely that he had it, and if he had some sort of Not-Dying power, it would relate to night kills, due to AV's promise of "The Lynch Is Sacred." Therefore, if he revealed it, Town get no benefit (as we could off him just as easily with the lynch), but the Wolves _would_.

So long as there's uncertainty over this, the wolves have to decide if it's worth it to potentially waste a shot on a target that isn't strictly antagonistic to them.

Meaning that, if Zelphas _does_ have a JOAT or alternate power, there is a better chance of him being alive to use it and therefore passing on the info to us. So as long as Zelphas hasn't gathered any valuable info (either from poor aim, wrong powers, or whatever reason), he _shouldn't_ tell us if he has any additional powers.

----------


## Illven

[What is a JOAT power? Cause I can only think Jack of all trades from D&D 5e bard.

----------


## AvatarVecna

> [What is a JOAT power? Cause I can only think Jack of all trades from D&D 5e bard.


One power people will occasionally see while playing these games is a Jack Of All Trades. Typically, the JOAT will have a handful of more common powers (kill, scry, bane, void, watch, sonar, etc), each of which can only be used once per game.

----------


## Batcathat

There's a decent case for either wagon, but what made me hesitant about Cultist D1 is still true, so I'll say *Persolus* for now.

----------


## bladescape

There's a really dumb reason Cultist could be 100% wolf here but I'm weighing up whether it's a stupid read or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Well actually there's two really dumb reasons.

But I'm ignoring "Not mindmelding with me" because it could purely be that 3SC is stuck on "Kill the survivor" where I don't care.

----------


## Murska

It's not that posting helpful advice and rules clarifications and vote counts is bad. They can even be useful. But if a player is clearly paying enough attention to do that and putting in significant effort to write such helpful messages... yet _not_ using that attention and putting in that effort to hunt for wolves, post reads, comments, ask or answer questions? That makes me think they don't have the motivation to do that, because they already know who the wolves are and their job is to hide rather than solve.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

> Yes, you caught me in a blatant TMI wolfspew on N1. Congratulations.


Not a TMI, exactly. A "I read things in wolfchat, and then read the thread, and forgot which things were said in wolfchat and which weren't". Which... Is just a thing that's gonna happen eventually to anyone who gets wolf enough times. 




> In this case, I am not referring to comments made in this thread, but in a past one. I forget which game it was that Cao was the Survivor (it was Tarot Club I think?), but there was a conversation in that game about at least a few other players disliking Survivor claims. Go back and check it if you dont believe me. IIRC it was Kraken who made those comments as well, along with others.





> To be clear, Im with the rest of the people *on this thread* who dislike survivor claims.


(Emphasis mine.) 

If you were not, in fact, referring to this thread I'd have expected you to not, you know. Explicitly call that part out. And anyway, this is kind of a weird explanation even taken at face value. Why would you go "I agree with what people said in a totally different game months ago said" instead of just stating your dislike? 

This ties into another wolfy tendency. Wolves, on the whole, like to act like they're in a group with town. One way to look like that is to parrot statements that have been made by other townies even if they're not actually town-aligned statements. Sometimes this is deliberate, but it's also easy to get caught up in it and take it too far. 




> I am too tired to provide an updated reads list, but I will tomorrow certainly. I do not have a placeholder vote I feel passionate about, but will continue to vote *Zelphas* (for the same reasons I had before; better a Survivor get mislynched than a townie).


An alternative formulation of this is "I would rather lynch a neutral than try to find a wolf". If we believe Zelphas's claim, there is no possibility of him being a wolf, so the only worse option for the lynch is JeenLeen. Literally any other choice is a better pick if you honestly buy his claim.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> Not a TMI, exactly. A "I read things in wolfchat, and then read the thread, and forgot which things were said in wolfchat and which weren't". Which... Is just a thing that's gonna happen eventually to anyone who gets wolf enough times. 
> 
> (Emphasis mine.) 
> 
> If you were not, in fact, referring to this thread I'd have expected you to not, you know. Explicitly call that part out. And anyway, this is kind of a weird explanation even taken at face value. Why would you go "I agree with what people said in a totally different game months ago said" instead of just stating your dislike? 
> 
> This ties into another wolfy tendency. Wolves, on the whole, like to act like they're in a group with town. One way to look like that is to parrot statements that have been made by other townies even if they're not actually town-aligned statements. Sometimes this is deliberate, but it's also easy to get caught up in it and take it too far. 
> 
> An alternative formulation of this is "I would rather lynch a neutral than try to find a wolf". If we believe Zelphas's claim, there is no possibility of him being a wolf, so the only worse option for the lynch is JeenLeen. Literally any other choice is a better pick if you honestly buy his claim.


Ugh, you have got this _so_ wrong. What I meant was people who are currently in this thread who have in the past expressed dislike for Survivor claims.

And I *did* state my dislike. I straight up said that I, like other people, share a dislike of Survivor claims. That, by itself, is a clear indication that I am not a fan of Zelphas claim. The rest of it, youre just off on.

Im in a bad mood today as well, busy at work and no time to dig in and solve before EoD. Apologies for the sake of the gamestate there. If that means I am mislynched today for being unhelpful, so be it. I am somehow still one of the top posters in this game, which is a sorry statement in and of itself.

I will jump on the *Persolus* wagon for self-preservation now, I guess.

- - - Updated - - -




> There's a really dumb reason Cultist could be 100% wolf here but I'm weighing up whether it's a stupid read or not.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Well actually there's two really dumb reasons.
> 
> But I'm ignoring "Not mindmelding with me" because it could purely be that 3SC is stuck on "Kill the survivor" where I don't care.


Im not mindmelding with you mostly because I have not had even half the time I did last game. I probably should not have signed up this go around.

----------


## Cazero

> Safety or no, I will _not_ have violence in this class, even if we're on this 'unorthodox field trip'! Please restrain yourself from, erm, _bonk_-ing your classmates. And I still haven't seen your poem...


Eurk, _fine_.

_Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
that's dumb,
they're named after other colors._


On Zelphas :
Survivors have a vested interest into ending the game ASAP. That means voting with wolves as LYLO gets close, when town can't afford to kill them off anymore. On the other hand, killing them now tells us nothing, and we need info.

On 3SC :
I get the point. I find it unconvincing. That kind of reasoning will always end up targeting top posters by virtue of them having material to hook into, regardless of actual roles.

All your wolf tells are NAI reeking of WIFOM. I'm starting to think that game is difficult or something.

----------


## Persolus

> It's not that posting helpful advice and rules clarifications and vote counts is bad. They can even be useful. But if a player is clearly paying enough attention to do that and putting in significant effort to write such helpful messages... yet _not_ using that attention and putting in that effort to hunt for wolves, post reads, comments, ask or answer questions? That makes me think they don't have the motivation to do that, because they already know who the wolves are and their job is to hide rather than solve.


Back when I did the vote count, I also did ask and answer questions, and stated that I didn't have any reads yet. At that point, I had time.

Rules speculations/advice doesn't take as much effort as reads for me. Maybe it's the opposite for you, which i find very cool! But regardless, I _do_ have time now, so I am going to do my best to put up reads on everyone.

----------


## bladescape

My next post is contingent on what I see from Persolus tbh

----------


## bladescape

*Taps fingers*

----------


## Taffimai

> I am too tired to provide an updated reads list, but I will tomorrow certainly. I do not have a placeholder vote I feel passionate about, but will continue to vote *Zelphas* (for the same reasons I had before; better a Survivor get mislynched than a townie).


You are wrong, actually. If you have reason to believe that Zelphas is lying then you need to say so, obviously, but eliminating a scummy townie brings us closer to finding the real wolves. Yeeting the Survivor just hands the initiative back to the scumteam and they're not going to kill in the POE so the next day you're right back where you started another obvious town lighter and the wolves one step closer to victory.




> On Zelphas :
> Survivors have a vested interest into ending the game ASAP. That means voting with wolves as LYLO gets close, when town can't afford to kill them off anymore. On the other hand, killing them now tells us nothing, and we need info.


You're overlooking two things: 1) if a particular player purposely screws town as Survivor those players will remember it for the next time, so they'd be trading one victory for future losses, and 2) even if they wanted to "vote with wolves", they have no way of knowing who the wolves are. 






> ...I am attempting to provide the same service that I was _extremely_ grateful for other players providing to me in previous games. *It also had the side benefit of something that was quick and easy to do*, so as to fit into above-mentioned unexpected busyness.


Bolding mine. I think you've hit on the crux of it here: being friendly and helpful in itself is NAI and just makes you more fun to play with, but when a player's posting mostly consists of the type of posts that are quick and easy to do, it usually points to them being scum who are having a hard time coming up with posts that believably look like scumhunting but feel under pressure to post anyway.


...it's possible that I'm wrong in my assumptions about Cultist but I'm not ready to vote there. Persolus is at least making some effort. Come join me on *Kraken* Bladescape, now that it's not right before EoD.

----------


## Persolus

Reads in Order Given by AV:

*Xihirli*
Dead, Baner. Couldn't have targetted JeenLeen, since he got added to chats.

*3SecondCultist*
So far, 3SC has been wolfread for two reasons - first, because of RP and multiple randvotes, secondly because of "others on this thread" statement. The RP thing seems to be just honest fun to me? and that appears to be the opinion everyone else shares, so no comment on that.

However, he DOES double down on Blade, stating that he is one of his primary wolf leans, when Blade has at this point literally made one post and it's a poem + a randvote. I do find this odd. His other two leans were Serpentine (who was pressuring him, makes sense) and Snowblaze (who he says _always_ reads town, so therefore he's trying to eliminate that bias - makes sense...?), which are both valid and have an explicitly stated reason, so I don't know what to say about this.

"others on this thread". Why would a wolf dislike a survivor claim? Their goals run directly parallel to eachother, and as Cazero pointed out, it's even in the interest of the survivor to vote with wolves. Also, it means Town either has to waste a vote which will give them no info, or ignore him in which case see my wolf points.
So there's no real reason why the wolf chat should be talking about how much they dislike survivor claims, as far as I can tell? Therefore I buy that he was trying to say "..people currently on this thread have, in the past..."

This also leads back to an explanation for why he's pushing Zelphas - sure, him flipping doesn't give us any more info, but it does get rid of someone who does not have Town's interests at heart. Not an excuse, but an explanation.

yeah, I've got a null read here, with a potential town lean.

*Aleph Null*
Dead, Seer-type. Interesting that Role Name and Fluff Text are options, given that (as proven by Xihirli the "Vigilante Girl") there are at least some Role Names that imply a completely different power. I don't think that's enough to count as the Bastard Mechanic AV promised, though?
Edit: while doing BatCatHat's read, I ended up re-reading where AV stated distribution of powers, where she does explicitly state Archetypes aren't necessarily linked to Alignment/Power, so this is less interesting.


*Batcathat*
Both the highest/second-highest poster and also very few reads.
Pretty much everything he stated D1 was couched in extremely cautious language. Since it's D1, I can totally get not being certain on reads (see: my behaviour), but most read-related setences have a synonym of "maybe", and there's multiple sentences of "you can probably just ignore this."
It reads as either a new towny or a wolf trying to not stand out too much. And we know that Batcathat is not a new player. This is also coupled with _very_ rapid wagon-hopping, for what seem to be very small reasons?
Given that we know at least one Neutral character exists (and so Null is an actual option for his alignment), he's likely Null or Wolf.


*bladescape*
Defended Lady Serpentine on D1 right after pressure started on her, and before saying anything of substance. His argument of "Lady Serpentine accuses _everyone_ D1 to get info" does seem valid, based on what she was doing/proceeded to do. 
However he then goes on to defend 3SC, Lady Serpentine's initial target, when suspicion started to mount there.

Bladescape has the most posts, but they are all practically empty of substance. Reads are stated without reasons, votes are made and switched, and a lot of questions are asked. I've stated my dislike of this practice in Candy-Coated. I think that, even if they are dumb reasons, they should be stated at _some_ point if you're town because then the rest of us can evaluate them. This is however consistent with a Town Blade.

...99% sure the post that is "contingent on what I say" is him testing me to see if I will either a) pocket him in an attempt to convince him not to vote me or b) start a counterwagon on him to pre-emptively invalidate his response. At this point, I'm going to do neither.

Null, pending actual details on his reads.

*Book Wombat*
To quote BatCatHat, "a resounding null." His posts say nothing, he directly states he has no reads, and generally is not active. Please tell us stuff! Let us know what rubs you the wrong way, or if there are questions you have for us! 

Null


*Cazero*
Just as many posts as BW, but at least there's something to work with here  except I am now placed into the same boat as I got annoyed with Blade at before, as I _cannot_ say more at this point because I don't want my thoughts to be publicly confirmed as correct.

Null to Town


*Illven*
...her only read this entire game is 3SC. First, "guilty conscience from first post," then "Xi voted on 3SC first, so revenge kill." 
These are extremely poor reads, especially with far better reasons to suspect 3SC _and_ lots of reasons to have reads on lots of others.

She is objectively a brand-new player. My argument here is the same as I gave for myself last game - if she were a wolf, then she would have gotten better advice. So either she's a good actor, or she's a newbie town.

so, Townlean.

*JeenLeen*
Hm, i wonder what my read is here?

OBJECTIVELY TOWN

...I have to say, we were extremely lucky N1. Your plan of "everyone connect yourself to me" relies on you not being baned, but you are the best wolf kill since it adds no extra info into the game. So Xihirli had to make the choice between forcing multiple Vanillagers into wasting their powers by blocking, or potentially letting multiple Vanillagers waste their powers by having you die. Not attacking you was an ... interesting decision by the wolves.


*Lady Serpentine*
Lives up to the reputation of poking around at everyone. 
Her big wolf read was 3SC, first as a generic pressure which she then swaps around to Snow and etc., but then later as the one to point out the "other people" quote I stated above. 
She doubles down on this, without appearing to consider any other interpretations of the quote. This seems to me to be reading too much into it?
Also, her interpretation of "i'd rather lynch a survivor than mislynch a a townie" is interesting. He stated that he was tired and _would_ do reads tomorrow, and is just putting this here because he knows it's someone he wants doesn't care about living or dying. But Ti states that this cannot be interpreted in _any_ way other than anti-town.
It looks to me like Lady Serpentine is trying too hard to read 3SC as Wolf, which in itself isn't Wolf, but it is odd.

Null to wolf

*Let'sGetKraken*
Claimed IRL overload, which is fair enough. Only post of substance townreads Jeen pre-reveal, pauses on Murska, and distrusts Zelphas - two of those opinions are justified.

Null to town

*Murska*
He doesn't trust me. This is fair, I have been acting thus far about the same as last game, where i was TO BE CONTINUED
*Persolus*
Town.


I have just been ninja'ed once, probably will again, and am busy for the next few hours, so posting what I have thus far and will add the rest soon.

Also is it normal to get the "wait thirty seconds before searching" warning every time you search, even if it was literally an hour since the last search?

----------


## Xumtiil

I think Batcathat is scum
I believe Zelphas is neutral
No one is joining in my fun
And the silence is brutal

Cultist looks like giving up
It would be sad to see them go
They need some backup
Posts are horrible though

Murska, Bladescape and Ti
Are also high on my list
All of them are alumni
in making town cease to coexist.

Following Taffy's example above,
and for the funniest rhyme,
Let's give the counter a shove
I guess it's *Kraken* time.

----------


## Illven

> *Illven*
> ...his only read this entire game is 3SC. First, "guilty conscience from first post," then "Xi voted on 3SC first, so revenge kill." 
> These are extremely poor reads, especially with far better reasons to suspect 3SC _and_ lots of reasons to have reads on lots of others.
> 
> He is objectively a brand-new player. My argument here is the same as I gave for myself last game - if he were a wolf, then he would have gotten better advice. So either he's a good actor, or he's a newbie town.
> 
> so, Townlean.


She her please.

----------


## bladescape

> ...99% sure the post that is "contingent on what I say" is him testing me to see if I will either a) pocket him in an attempt to convince him not to vote me or b) start a counterwagon on him to pre-emptively invalidate his response. At this point, I'm going to do neither.


Not quite.

But close.

You are right that it was trying to see what reaction that made you give.

- - - Updated - - -

List time because I won't be able to do too much soon: (I'm removing the dead players.)

JeenLeen - Confirmed Town

Illven - I find it unlikely to think that they're wolf with how they've played.
Murska - Mindmelding twice like that is usually a towntell hard. See 3SC from previous game. Very rarely is this wrong.

Lady Serpentine - Positioned where I expect a town to be in the state of the game + world-read coincides with mine

Xumtiil - Either learns extremely quickly or is not a wolf. Literally caught them previous game. I townread them for the way their play doesn't line up with their wolf play but Xum has proven to be a good player so some doubt sowed in just in case.

Batcathat - Extremely Hedgy is in BCH's town meta, however I haven't seen all of what I expect so not hard-town yet. Could have learnt to copy the hedging better than previous wolf rands.

Book Wombat
Cazero
 - I actually just don't know with either slot

Zelphas - Kinda confident they're neutral. Not confident they're telling the truth about their wincon.

Taffimai - I have _liked_ their content. However it reads as the kind of content I'd expect if I'm on the right track as town and they're trying to push things. This would imply Kraken is town which I'm not confident on either.
Persolus - Their position seems performative and their response to me is once again very focused on how they think they appear. I'm not confident as last time on their alignment though.

Let'sGetKraken - There's a scummy niggle in their early posts but also irl/commitments so not confident on it. Would like to see more on them.

3SecondCultist - I just... don't like their content. Funny fact is that it wasn't even about the "TMI" slip. It's just the position is wolfy

bladescape - Obvious scum pls vote.


--------

I'll likely be pretty busy in the next 24 hours but I'll try to poke my head in later again.

----------


## Zelphas

> Eurk, _fine_.
> 
> _Roses are red,
> Violets are blue,
> that's dumb,
> they're named after other colors._


Hmmm... B-. Follows the assignment, and your own flair is present, but a bit short for an assigned poem.



I had a lot less time today than I expected (internet issues), so I won't have my reads up by EoD; I'll try to get them up ASAP. I'm going to keep my vote on 3SecondCultist, because they're the one I'm most confident about (even though that isn't much). People have already pointed out that "better to mislynch neutral than town" is assuming a guaranteed town mislynch, which is a little odd.

----------


## Illven

Extension? SO MUCH FOR THE VOTE BEING SACRED!  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Batcathat

Sorry I haven't been super active, I'm hoping things will calm down a bit by D3 or so (though now that I've said that, the universe might punish my hubris with more to do  :Small Tongue:  ).

*@Taff*: Maybe I missed it, but what's the reason for voting Kraken?

----------


## Xumtiil

> Xumtiil - Either learns extremely quickly or is not a wolf. Literally caught them previous game.



Blade the great sleuth
Is never ever sus
He is so awesome
He can catch a bus.

----------


## Taffimai

> Sorry I haven't been super active, I'm hoping things will calm down a bit by D3 or so (though now that I've said that, the universe might punish my hubris with more to do  ).
> 
> *@Taff*: Maybe I missed it, but what's the reason for voting Kraken?


The direct reason for settling on Kraken was that he voted in the discord poll before I did, and being too busy irl to read a rather slow game thread but immediately noticing a poll in the discord even though there's not even a ping with it... it's not hard evidence, but it drew my attention on top of the fact that D1 Kraken was the third random vote on Snow (town) which is always a bit suspicious, and he was one of the two-vote wagons that never went anywhere and well, I know the alignments of both people who were voting him. So it's an accumulation of little things that makes him a better low-poster flip than Persolus imo.

And there's also the fact that Bladescape picked him over you yesterday but then is no longer interested today that's nagging at me like a loose thread in your clothes that you just want to pull at to see where it goes. I'm feeling like this is the second day in a row where he's perfectly happy with the wagons and doesn't want to upset them even though they're stale as old bread. I think I've talked enough about how I think Cultist is a bad choice and I'm starting to feel really stupid because I might've read too much into things.

----------


## Book Wombat

> *Book Wombat*
> To quote BatCatHat, "a resounding null." His posts say nothing, he directly states he has no reads, and generally is not active. Please tell us stuff! Let us know what rubs you the wrong way, or if there are questions you have for us!


Reads? I guess I do have some "reads". I find 3SecondCultist a bit suspicious (feels a bit like backpedaling?). Batcathat's back-and-forth also feels a bit odd, but also kinda normal for him I think. JeenLeen is a resounding town and I liked Murska's read list. Dunno, not much else really stood out to me. Xumtiil and Taffi have both good poems, but I don't really have a lean on them.






> The direct reason for settling on Kraken was that he voted in the discord poll before I did, and being too busy irl to read a rather slow game thread but immediately noticing a poll in the discord even though there's not even a ping with it... it's not hard evidence, but it drew my attention on top of the fact that D1 Kraken was the third random vote on Snow (town) which is always a bit suspicious, and he was one of the two-vote wagons that never went anywhere and well, I know the alignments of both people who were voting him. So it's an accumulation of little things that makes him a better low-poster flip than Persolus imo.


About the Discord thing, Notifications are automatically on for All Messages I believe. At least that's the case with me.

----------


## Taffimai

> About the Discord thing, Notifications are automatically on for All Messages I believe. At least that's the case with me.


I was the third person to vote in the poll, before the shrug option was even added, and the two people who beat me to it were Kraken and Zelphas. The two people who are busy. It makes me  :Small Confused:

----------


## JeenLeen

Not much to say I haven't already.   Batcathat seems a tad wolfy, but nothing solid.  I could see Persolus and/or 3SC as wolf, but 3SC's defense seems reasonable.  I guess it's a tad odd a towny would be defensive (especially D1 when the lynch is almost certainly going to be a townie), since a vanillager should be happy to take the hit.  Not that 3SC has claimed vanillager, but odds are he's that given we've got 3 power roles already known (me, Xihirli, Snowblaze).




> About the Discord thing, Notifications are automatically on for All Messages I believe. At least that's the case with me.


I don't use a smartphone, so I don't see notifications.  I think they go to my email, but I don't check it constantly.   FYI in case that is every helpful. 
That's also why I didn't realize this game started until about 24 hours after it started.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I haven't given the time to think strongly on Kraken or Lady Serpentine as possible wolves.   I think if 3SC flips Wolf, Lady Serpentine is probably Town.   I'm not strongly opposed to a wagon on Kraken, but I don't feel like moving my vote.

----------


## Persolus

@Illven - fixed that now!

*Murska*
He doesn't trust me on account of most of my posts thus far being of little substance despite showing that I am paying attention to the thread. I've already stated my piece explaining why that argument doesn't apply here, but it _is_ a decent argument. We also probably have the same idea about Cazero, and definitely agree about Illven. He was the very first to start voting on 3SC, day one, and in general comes across as genuinely solvy. 

so slight townlean?


*Snowblaze*
Dead. Vanillager.


Posting what i've got so far to prove that I'm still alive! Only three left to go!

----------


## bladescape

Stale just because wagons haven't moved much is not a read I find very exciting.

Tension from tight wagons can cause wolves to not want to move a vote because one change is like the jenga tower where it could be fine or could completely ruin the almost okay situation.

I am okay with the wagons because I think at least one is wolf.

Third time posting this post, will it work? Who knows.

----------


## JeenLeen

It's possible some folk are trying to post, but haven't been successful.  I've gotten some "server too busy" errors.

----------


## bladescape

I will say posting has been an experience.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

I would prefer not to get wagoned for IRL stuff. Is it unfair of me to say that if I was a wolf, I probably would have been more active so as to not drag my team down, whereas as a town I can trust them more to pick up the slack? Don't think it is. 

Anyhow, my only vote so far was retaliatory and for Snow, who's cleared by virtue of being dead. My instincts tell me to trust Murska but I am unsure whether it is overcompensating. 

I don't think Bladescape is a wolf or SK.

I will catch up on the thread and get a vote up shortly.

----------


## bladescape

> I would prefer not to get wagoned for IRL stuff. Is it unfair of me to say that if I was a wolf, I probably would have been more active so as to not drag my team down, whereas as a town I can trust them more to pick up the slack? Don't think it is. 
> 
> Anyhow, my only vote so far was retaliatory and for Snow, who's cleared by virtue of being dead. My instincts tell me to trust Murska but I am unsure whether it is overcompensating. 
> 
> *I don't think Bladescape is a wolf or SK.*
> 
> I will catch up on the thread and get a vote up shortly.


Very confident I see

- - - Updated - - -

This is not an alignment read on Kraken I am amused

----------


## Persolus

*Taffimai*
Okay, this one's interesting. I was under the impression that she had been very solvy, but... there's not a lot of content in her posts?

I mean, let's look at this content:

{Scrubbed}

... so out of all that, Taff still has given us pretty much no justification whatsoever for any of her votes before Kraken, and her reasoning there was "oh, since he isn't active on the thread, he shouldn't be quick to respond to the QUICK AND EASY REQUEST FOR MORE TIME."

She's doing everything that Murska and etc. have explained to me are major wolf tells - posting votereads without context, asking questions, doing rules analysis/evaluating power plans - things that require logic and prompt discussion, but don't require the poster to make reads.

She doesn't actively defend anyone. Instead, she attacks the reasons why people are voting - this makes it less obvious that she's defending someone and/or allows her to not make reads.

She was accurate on her townlean for Snow, sure, but that's easy enough to do as a wolf - you literally know who isn't a wolf.

Originally, I was thinking Taffimai was almost confirmed town. Now that I read the posts, though, I'm regretting my decision to groupchat Xumtiil and Taffimai instead of connecting myself to someone.

*Taffimai*

Don't know if I'm going to have time to finish the other two in time for EoD, but yeah, I would greatly appreciate someone telling me why I'm wrong here.

----------


## bladescape

Persolus may have a point.

But more importantly that take is kinda rand!town.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Reads in Order Given by AV:
> 
> *3SecondCultist*
> ... Snowblaze (who he says _always_ reads town, so therefore he's trying to eliminate that bias - makes sense...?), which are both valid and have an explicitly stated reason, so I don't know what to say about this.


Snowblaze plays town. That is immutable at this point. The last two games I have been active in, she has been the most town-like person day one while being serial killer and then unaligned neutral. Stating it is NAI, logic checks out but is still NAI. 




> Reads in Order Given by AV:
> 
> *Batcathat*
> Both the highest/second-highest poster and also very few reads.
> Pretty much everything he stated D1 was couched in extremely cautious language. Since it's D1, I can totally get not being certain on reads (see: my behaviour), but most read-related setences have a synonym of "maybe", and there's multiple sentences of "you can probably just ignore this."
> It reads as either a new towny or a wolf trying to not stand out too much. And we know that Batcathat is not a new player. This is also coupled with _very_ rapid wagon-hopping, for what seem to be very small reasons?
> Given that we know at least one Neutral character exists (and so Null is an actual option for his alignment), he's likely Null or Wolf.


 BatCatHat, similarly, is a very hedgy player. Nothing suspicious here. 




> The direct reason for settling on Kraken was that he voted in the discord poll before I did, and being too busy irl to read a rather slow game thread but immediately noticing a poll in the discord even though there's not even a ping with it... it's not hard evidence, but it drew my attention on top of the fact that D1 Kraken was the third random vote on Snow (town) which is always a bit suspicious, and he was one of the two-vote wagons that never went anywhere and well, I know the alignments of both people who were voting him. So it's an accumulation of little things that makes him a better low-poster flip than Persolus imo.
> 
> And there's also the fact that Bladescape picked him over you yesterday but then is no longer interested today that's nagging at me like a loose thread in your clothes that you just want to pull at to see where it goes. I'm feeling like this is the second day in a row where he's perfectly happy with the wagons and doesn't want to upset them even though they're stale as old bread. I think I've talked enough about how I think Cultist is a bad choice and I'm starting to feel really stupid because I might've read too much into things.


Okay, a few things. 

You keep saying that I randvoted Snow, which is disingenuous at best. She had voted me, so for lack of a better option (I dislike random voting day 1, but I understand the logic) I voted her back. Then IRL busy-ness kicked in and I didn't switch my vote in time, which in retrospect should have gone on Zelphas (sorry Zelphas - survivor claims when there could be a serial killer set off alarm bells, and as previous games here have indicated, you can't be trusted to side with town). It was a retaliatory vote, coupled with the fact that Snow is always very solvy and applying pressure can help get better reads on her. That's very different from randoming or hopping onto a wagon, especially since I never moved it and I wasn't in any significant danger. 

Also, I get a discord popup on my phone whenever there's a message in the server. I do not get one when someone posts here. I was on my phone at the time. It popped up, I saw "extra time" and immediately voted yes. No greater mystery to it. I can promise you that I am not using IRL stuff as an excuse to fly under the radar here. That's not my style, and a win with that strategy wouldn't be worth anything. 

Persolus is setting off alarm bells for me but there's nothing quite suspicious enough for me to think they're a wolf. I am fine with them being voted but don't love it. *Taffimai* for now - not retaliatory, but Persolus does bring up some solid points and I don't like how aggressive (playstyle-wise, not politeness-wise, to be clear - Taffi hasn't been anything other than polite) they seem to be getting.  Anyone with a little more time willing to throw together a votecount? If so I will be open to moving based on who's in danger.

Edit: Sorry for the IRL stuff, bit off more I can chew. Hopefully should be able to be more active if I survive the day/night.

----------


## AvatarVecna

> *Taffimai*
> Okay, this one's interesting. I was under the impression that she had been very solvy, but... there's not a lot of content in her posts?
> 
> I mean, let's look at this content:


Persolus, a heads up since it's been an issue before: changing quotes runs up against forum rules.




> In particular, editing a quote of another user's post to insult the poster or to make the other user's words appear misleading, inflammatory, or insulting is considered trolling, and any such modified quotes will be removed and an Infraction issued.


I don't personally think that was the intention here, which is why I'm not reporting. But in the future, it's be safer (and honestly probably more helpful to showcasing your point) if you had your comments beneath the quote rather than inside it and replacing the actual text. People seeing "taff said X" followed by you pointing out why it's doing Y is better than you saying "taff said soemthing that's essentially Y", and them having to click through the link to see what taff said to see how they feel about your reaction to it.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

It's interesting how many wagons have been being started by people going 'I don't trust this person! Now, let me vote for this other person because of what they said; I think they made some really good points.' Kind of feels like people trying to preemptively cover their asses because they're expecting a town flip.

----------


## Persolus

> Persolus, a heads up since it's been an issue before: changing quotes runs up against forum rules.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't personally think that was the intention here, which is why I'm not reporting. But in the future, it's be safer (and honestly probably more helpful to showcasing your point) if you had your comments beneath the quote rather than inside it and replacing the actual text. People seeing "taff said X" followed by you pointing out why it's doing Y is better than you saying "taff said soemthing that's essentially Y", and them having to click through the link to see what taff said to see how they feel about your reaction to it.


...crap. I didn't realise that was a rule. My intention was to reduce space (as i was worried it was going to be way too long). Thank you for telling me and I will go back and fix that ASAP.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Spoiler: Votes*
Show




> *3SecondCultist*





> *Murska*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *3secondcultist*





> *Persolus*.





> *Persolus*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *Persolus*





> *Persolus*





> *Kraken*





> *Kraken*





> *Taffimai*





> *Taffimai*


3SecondCultist (4): Lady Serpentine, bladescape, Illven, Zelphas
Murska (1): Cazero
Persolus (4): Murska, JeenLeen, Batcathat, 3SecondCultist
Let'sGetKraken (2): Taffimai, Xumtiil
Taffimai (2): Persolus, Let'sGetKraken

Another tie.


*Episode 2-A Ends*

Results were coming back from audiences. They're loving most of the chemistry between the leads, but felt that some of the more college-centric girls clashed with the mystery tone. To that end, the network has decided that certain peppy characters are going to be relegated to runners and background characters going forward. No hard feelings, it's just business!

*Persolus* has been lynched. They were *The Sorority Girl*.




> You are the Sorority Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Party Time: It's gonna be the best party every, and everyone's invited! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.


*Episode 2-B Will End In ~24 Hours*

----------


## bladescape

I appreciate Persolus' dedication that he didn't save himself

But also... *Sigh*

----------


## Illven

Persolus truly you were the best of us!

----------


## JeenLeen

Real life note: I, and at least one but probably two of my kids, have the flu.  Um, I'm not sure how active or coherent I'll be.  Hopefully I'll be fine by Night's end; got a tamiflu perscription send over this morning.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Episode 2-B Ends*

Cassie had just about solved the mystery. She had all the clues pointing to the same suspect, now all that was left was the booby trap...

[a few hours later]

The supposed-vampire charged at Cassie, who stood her ground and smirked. One false step, and the leaves fell away under its heavy tread, leaving nothing but air beneath. They flailed for a moment before tumbling into the hole.

"Time to see who you really are!" Cassie exclaimed, reaching down to remove the dollar-store vampire mask. Underneath was...a werewolf!

"Taffimai!" the collection of cuties gasped.

"Yup! She's the one responsible for all the murders!"

"Oh come on, you can't accuse me of that! I haven't killed anybody, and anyway you can't just accuse every werewolf you meet of being a murderer, that's racist!"

"You're not wrong," Cassie acknowledged. "Can't accuse without proof. Fortunately, Persolus left behind a legacy of proof of your wrongdoing!" she added with a smirk.

Taffimai screamed in frustration. "But that wasn't even-"

"Take her away, boys!" And then the cops took Taffimai away.

*Taffimai* has died. They were *The Werewolf Girl*.




> You are the Werewolf Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.
> 
> The Nose Knows: Your keen sense of smell can sniff out co-conspirators. At the start of the game, choose three players. They will become members of scumteam, with randomly assigned roles.
> 
> Of Course I'm A Wolf: You can't just go around accusing whoever you want of being a wolf, Cassie. If your alignment would be scried, you detect as a member of the town.


*Episode 3-A Ends In ~48 Hours*

----------


## bladescape

BatCatHat and Xumtiil can join the probably town pile.

*3SecondCultist* Seems to have been saved by Taffi a lot.

(Here we go again)

- - - Updated - - -

Also Zelphas was heavily wagoned by Taffi for anyone who actually thought he wasn't neutral.

- - - Updated - - -




> *@Bladescape* when you moved off of Zelphas yesterday, you went to Kraken instead of joining me on Batcathat. Do you think Batcathat is town?
> 
> 
> I would like everybody who had no reads yesterday to try to give at least one today. "Player X is wolf/town because of Y"
> No rush.


Note this post. Going to come back to it later but still note it.

- - - Updated - - -




> Let'sGetKraken - There's a scummy niggle in their early posts but also irl/commitments so not confident on it. Would like to see more on them.


I already had the Kraken thought I forgot

- - - Updated - - -

Kraken joins townpile.

Illven gets removed from townpile.

Book Wombat is rand!likely to be wolf?

- - - Updated - - -

Also Persolus, top quality work yesterday. You reread one of your top townreads and correctly pointed out that Taffi was wolfy.

----------


## Batcathat

> BatCatHat and Xumtiil can join the probably town pile.
> 
> *3SecondCultist* Seems to have been saved by Taffi a lot.


That's funny, I thought Taff's flip might make Cultist less likely to be a wolf. Wasn't Cultist and Persolus tied when Taff voted Kraken? At the time, I thought that the wagons might be w/w, with Taff (and maybe Xum) trying to save them both with a new wagon, but that obviously wasn't the case.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if it would be meaningful to try and figure out who's likely to have been picked as partners by Taff? I suppose she might've gone at least partly random to avoid something like that.

----------


## bladescape

> That's funny, I thought Taff's flip might make Cultist less likely to be a wolf. Wasn't Cultist and Persolus tied when Taff voted Kraken? At the time, I thought that the wagons might be w/w, with Taff (and maybe Xum) trying to save them both with a new wagon, but that obviously wasn't the case.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I wonder if it would be meaningful to try and figure out who's likely to have been picked as partners by Taff? I suppose she might've gone at least partly random to avoid something like that.


It's not too meaningful but I would like to see people's thoughts on it.

----------


## Illven

> I wonder if it would be meaningful to try and figure out who's likely to have been picked as partners by Taff? I suppose she might've gone at least partly random to avoid something like that.


Has Taff played particularly well with certain people in the past? That would be where I would start.

----------


## Batcathat

> Has Taff played particularly well with certain people in the past? That would be where I would start.


Yeah, that's probably one factor to consider. Others are skill/experience and unpredictability (since she'd know that we might end up in this exact situation). Of course, the last one kinda works against the first two, since if Taff picked only experienced players she'd worked well with in the past, it'd be a pretty obvious pattern to follow.

----------


## Book Wombat

Oh hey nice; one down, hopefully not many to go. 

Also, is this a forum bug?



> Re: [WW/Mafia] Harem Comedy: &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;Busted!&amp;amp;amp;amp;q uot ; Season One

----------


## Illven

> Oh hey nice; one down, hopefully not many to go. 
> 
> Also, is this a forum bug?


I think so, I had a similar post earlier. If I had to guess it's caused by the same thing that's making it difficult to post.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

Awesome, we got one! No idea how that happened, but there we go.

Right, so first off: apologies for the absence. I really have been busy, but I've _also_ been trying (and failing) to fly under the radar so as to not get killed by scum and actually use my powers to help town. I was voided on N1 by Xihirli. *My claim, which I've been hinting at since D1, is either Seer or Fool.* I got this same role that Aleph Null did at the start of the game.




> You are the Geek Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you saw this in a movie once! Each night, select one player. You learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice).


If you don't believe me, check out some of my posts from D1.

*Spoiler: My Posts*
Show




> *Let's see*, this is going to be a fun one...
> 
> I think a vote for Snowblaze is in order for the SOD. She made it to F3 last game - and was scum, to boot - both of which I find entirely unacceptable. On top of the fact that I wanted to build a case against her but real-life intervened, and now here we are.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> (This is not a serious vote, in case that wasn't clear)





> No no no! This is the part of the movie where nobody really says what they mean. Its the hook, the inciting incident. The first body hasnt dropped, which means the masks are still on. There are angels and demons on both sides of the dance floor, *cant you see?*
> 
> 
> 
> Also - and I cant be the only one to have noticed this - but when another contender goes ahead and makes the same message, that isnt considered suspicious? Come on. If youre going to play by the rules of the genre, then _play by the rules_. So disappointing.
> 
> (Seriously though, I did a joke randvote and now am just trying to adjust to actual RP, plus BCH made literally the same post as me. Dont see why Im getting legitimately sussed for this)





> Yes, I suppose that is fair. Maybe I messed up, but I never claimed to be perfect. *Im still trying to see through these darn glasses*
> 
> Anyhow. What conclusions do you come to, if any, about our fair Bladescapes recent vote for the murky-kun? *I do not see* rhyme or reason for it.





> I cant be certain, but when it is pointing at someones chest, The Blade Itself is a question unposed. And any good storyteller knows not to leave a sword hanging if they dont plan to eventually use it
> 
> For now this is simple curiosity. The day is still too early to tell if anything substantial will come of our edgy friends movements, if there is a later explanation, or if they change course entirely.





> *I see.* So this is the part where an innocent heroine gets threatened by the paranoid masses. *I suppose all this it fits the mold for my particular kind of Truth*, so its not like this is without narrative precedent.
> 
> As for my reads, well thats obvious. Not much, yet. We arent even a third of the way through D1, so my reads will be not much of substance beyond gutpings. 
> 
> I have pointed out a look at Blade, which bears some looking into. My post for Snow was a joke; she is reading fairly town to me right now, but then again she always _reads_ town (and she certainly was not last game). I have learned to not townread her too quickly. I dont scumread Murska for OMGUS reasons, and I think I did mess up initially and get myself wagoned, though I maintain that this is a really stupid reason to wagon someone.
> 
> You, though? I do kind of scumread you. I think putting the pressure on me would be a valid tactic later in the day, where there have been enough posts for people to actually develop reads. At this point, I cant really defend myself or really offer much analysis on anyone, since almost all of the posts have been not-serious randposts and RP fluff. Scum!Ti would know that, and happily use the pretext of a flailing early game townie to make an easy wagon.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...




Emphasis mine. I deliberately planted the verb 'see' into as many early posts as possible to make my role plain when looking back on it, but the real tell is the last message of that bunch (the first sentence of which is in itself a direct response to Murska's question of what my role was). When I said 'this fits the mold for my particular kind of Truth', I was of course referencing the Cassandra Truth, wherein the words of an oracle are dismissed by the people they are speaking to. I have been hoping that among a bunch of TvTropes enthusiasts, someone would have picked that one up.

Of course, this has all been complicated by Aleph Null's flip being the same role as me. So there's a healthy chance that I am the Fool, and my most recent scry was incorrect. AV has confirmed that nobody will get confirmation on which of us was the Seer until both of us are dead and flipped. So with uncertainty in play, I will resume the game with my cards down for everyone to see.

Heading to work, but I will have my reads list up in a few hours for some discussion.

----------


## Illven

Well at 3SecondCultist. What reads have you made? I'm assuming no one has been killed has been revealed wrong.

----------


## bladescape

Will need your scry results then. You have a few nights results we should have.

----------


## Cazero

Also only one kill tonight, would be good to know if it's because of a voider or a baner. If it's a voider, you got a wolf.

- - - Updated - - -

To be clear, I'm not asking a baner reveal. Voider reveal would be food for thought tho.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> Will need your scry results then. You have a few nights results we should have.


As I said, I was voided on N1, likely by Xihirli but possibly someone else.

My second scry result was on BCH, which revealed them to be Town. But I cannot dismiss the possibility that I am a Fool, which makes my scries 50% uncertain since there is a 1 in 2 chance I am not in fact the Seer.

I asked AV about it and she said that if I were the Fool, my scry results would be either random or incorrect.

----------


## bladescape

I'm willing to back off my 3sc read for *Book Wombat*

Who I think is wolf in either world rn

----------


## Illven

Due to 3secondcultist knowing to roleplay as a glasses girl, I am also willing to back off them.

I suppose it's possible they are a wolf seer but I consider that unlikely.

No vote yet.

----------


## Batcathat

Yeah, *Book Wombat* sounds like a decent option. 

I can confirm Cultist's result about me, but that's obviously what I'd say regardless of alignment. Though it's worth keeping in mind that if the result's random, Cultist can still be the Fool.

----------


## Murska

Useful flip. I'm very busy this week, but I'll find time to reread and see if I can suss anything out.

----------


## Illven

I'm actually going to vote for *Bookwombat* as well. Saying who knows how many are left, reads to me like a wolf that knows there player count and hasn't realized that the amount of wolves have been revealed with alphas flip.

----------


## Xumtiil

> Also Persolus, top quality work yesterday. You reread one of your top townreads and correctly pointed out that Taffi was wolfy.


Easy to say, when they're absentee
This makes *Blade* look so wolfy
Persolus' reads were not *that* good
Taffy was not evil, just misunderstood

Case in point, Persolus had said
Taffy's reads were quite bad
Or just entirely missing
Allow me to do some dissing:




> My first two wolfleans this game were Cultist and JeenLeen, so I'm full of confidence right now 
> 
> Batcathat is acting with more confidence than I'd expect. Xumtiil has very little content for being so high on the posters list. Xihirli is giving me the heebie-jeebies by roleplaying something unobtrusive.
> 
> I have exactly one townread other than the people who have claimed: Snow. Defending Cultist when she did the way she did is a town tell, not one she couldn't fake but one I think she wouldn't.


As stated, there are reads
On Xihirli, me and Batcathat
The first did turn out to be a PR
So there is some sense to that

Anyway, back to my first line
Blade's distancing is quite fine.




> One of your reasons for voting Wombat is that he's posting more than usual. He's posting more because Xumtiil asked him questions, so now that you know that it should change your view (I assumed you ISO'd Wombat and then the quotes don't show up). Not having reads D1 (or ever...) is also not out of line for Wombat, and you know that. You're putting him in a catch-22 where if he posts more, he gets voted for it, and if he doesn't he gets voted for "being hard to read". Ngl I absolutely hate the reasons for your vote.





> Addendum: I'd swap my vote to Batcathat if only people would get off of JeenLeen.





> *@Bladescape* when you moved off of Zelphas yesterday, you went to Kraken instead of joining me on Batcathat. Do you think Batcathat is town?





> *Batcathat*: I still think he was wolfy yesterday, and today he has... commented on the neutral and the NKs  But if Bladescape is town then he's more likely to be correct than I am, and if he's a wolf he wouldn't so pointedly have ignored my Batcathat vote yesterday if they're partners, so then it's more likely tmi. Also I'd prefer not to make the same mistake again so soon.


Progression on *Batcat*
Who I spy with a wolfy hat
Is much more verbose
Than any other, I suppose

D1 end Taffy voted for them
D2 she sought reasons not to
The wolfiest move in the realm
And that makes partner number 2

As for third, I have no clue
It could be any of you
But Persolus did mention correctly
*Cultist* was townread unexplainedly
Devils can see too.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Well, this explains why Taffimai went after me. I was an easy enough scapegoat. 

Cultist being voided N1 is highly suspicious, but for now it's enough go buy them a stay of execution. Will reserve mu vote for now. 

Also, my bad. I said that Bladescape likely wasn't a wolf or SK. I meant Murska. Apologies for the mix-up.

----------


## Book Wombat

> I'm actually going to vote for *Bookwombat* as well. Saying who knows how many are left, reads to me like a wolf that knows there player count and hasn't realized that the amount of wolves have been revealed with alphas flip.


Oh damn completely missed that. Damn my skimmer brain.
But three wolves left in twelve, that should be pretty manageable.

Might claim later, will see.

----------


## JeenLeen

3SC's claim could be an easy way for a wolf to lie and take heat off them, but I don't see any strong reason not to believe them.  Just noting it's not definite.  
Also, if they flip wolf, doesn't mean BCH is wolf; could be setting us up for a mislynch on town!Batcathat later.

If there is another person with Xi's powerset, that gives more credence to 3SC's claim.
I don't have much to add right now, but I second that if a voider exists and voided someone, that could be very useful to reveal to help catch a wolf.

Also just to note a wolf dying means a vortexer (doubtful I think though no real reason to think that), a serial killer (thinking likely), or a town vigilante.

----------


## Illven

Based on the fact that we're all archetypes I'm like 95 percent sure we got a serial killer.

Cause a Yandere would be the perfect fluff for it.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

So... Let me see if I have this straight. 3SC was up for lynch yesterday to the point of a tie and didn't say anything, after being frontrunner D1 down to the wire and saying nothing. Now he shows up right after our first wolf flip going "Hi guys, I'm the seer, honest! And Xihirli used their power on me for some reason, not the Innocent Child or herself, haha, isn't she so random? Also, my only scry is untestable." 

Plus, in a game where the _individual vanilla townies_ have unique role fluff, his is somehow identical to the example of a seer we have? 

Yeah, no. Not buying it. *3SecondCultist* is a lying liar what lies.

----------


## bladescape

Xum if I was wolf there'd be another dead pr not a missing kill.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll leave others to decide if they want to back me up in thread or not

----------


## Illven

> So... Let me see if I have this straight. 3SC was up for lynch yesterday to the point of a tie and didn't say anything, after being frontrunner D1 down to the wire and saying nothing. Now he shows up right after our first wolf flip going "Hi guys, I'm the seer, honest! And Xihirli used their power on me for some reason, not the Innocent Child or herself, haha, isn't she so random? Also, my only scry is untestable." 
> 
> Plus, in a game where the _individual vanilla townies_ have unique role fluff, his is somehow identical to the example of a seer we have? 
> 
> Yeah, no. Not buying it. *3SecondCultist* is a lying liar what lies.


See if it wasn't for his evidence I'd be inclined to agree. But how would cultist know to include that fluff for glasses girl?

----------


## bladescape

> See if it wasn't for his evidence I'd be inclined to agree. But how would cultist know to include that fluff for glasses girl?


He could guess. It is weaker than any of his previous stuff from last game.

----------


## Murska

Okay, reading now. As for the above, it's not 'glasses girl' for seer, it was 'geek girl'. It's reasonably close, yes, but that's easy to say in hind-sight, and there were no geek references.

----------


## Illven

> Okay, reading now. As for the above, it's not 'glasses girl' for seer, it was 'geek girl'. It's reasonably close, yes, but that's easy to say in hind-sight, and there were no geek references.


You raise a fair argument.

----------


## Murska

> The Murska and Cultist wagons have reasoning behind them that are ~fine for D1, but I don't know who I'd pick between them yet (and the day is still long). Snow's wagon is entirely made up of random votes so it should go away (also because Snow just lost a hard-fought game and there are too many people who meme vote her D1 so she always gets wagoned).
> 
> Between the three Snow voters Cultist is already a wagon, Wombat is unlikely to change his vote until much later (and was the N1 last game), so Kraken gets the pressure vote.


Hmm. Early in D1, so not too much to read into here, but interesting look into the wagons of the time.




> My first two wolfleans this game were Cultist and JeenLeen, so I'm full of confidence right now 
> 
> Batcathat is acting with more confidence than I'd expect. Xumtiil has very little content for being so high on the posters list. Xihirli is giving me the heebie-jeebies by roleplaying something unobtrusive.
> 
> I have exactly one townread other than the people who have claimed: Snow. Defending Cultist when she did the way she did is a town tell, not one she couldn't fake but one I think she wouldn't.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -


So, wolves usually add at least one wolf among their wolf reads just to avoid being too obvious if they go down. This post is what I'd look into if searching for that. And not too many options here are left alive...




> I think you did the right thing JeenLeen, because before the claims I was seriously considering voting you too. *Zelphas* because I too prefer him over Wombat, and to make sure our IC doesn't die because the people voting there don't get online before EoD.


Adding some wolf points for Book Wombat.




> Perfect, thank you Snow. *Batcathat* and see you all tomorrow


Mostly irrelevant really, because there was no chance for a BCH lynch, but still placing this here as a reminder.




> My thoughts on the four "wagons":
> 
> *Batcathat*: I still think he was wolfy yesterday, and today he has... commented on the neutral and the NKs  But if Bladescape is town then he's more likely to be correct than I am, and if he's a wolf he wouldn't so pointedly have ignored my Batcathat vote yesterday if they're partners, so then it's more likely tmi. Also I'd prefer not to make the same mistake again so soon.
> 
> *Cultist*: I would prefer not to kill Cultist today. Baa Snow baaa. Would enjoy reads though.
> 
> *Murska*: I can follow the logic behind his reads so I'm leaning town. Either way I'm not willing to vote someone who is actually solving until much closer to LyLo.
> 
> *Persolus*: In Utropia he was one of the most obvious towns and now he's not. Awaiting read(s).
> ...


So much hedging on BCH. Trying to pocket me?




> Bolding mine. I think you've hit on the crux of it here: being friendly and helpful in itself is NAI and just makes you more fun to play with, but when a player's posting mostly consists of the type of posts that are quick and easy to do, it usually points to them being scum who are having a hard time coming up with posts that believably look like scumhunting but feel under pressure to post anyway.
> 
> 
> ...it's possible that I'm wrong in my assumptions about Cultist but I'm not ready to vote there. Persolus is at least making some effort. Come join me on *Kraken* Bladescape, now that it's not right before EoD.


Settles on Kraken from here on out. I don't think this is bussing, there'd be no need for it at this point I feel, so I'd say Kraken gets many town points from me.

- - - Updated - - -

So, to explain some of my earlier stuff:




> Predictions :
> Every single one of us has a power role. The vanilla town equivalents can network people.The only role in duplicate are twins. They're lovers.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Also, I'd rather not get 3SC killed today for reasons and might bus a counterwagon if need be.


I didn't want to push for Cazero yesterday, because I felt this seemed like a Lovers claim with 3SC. But with 3SC claiming Seer, that's clearly false.

I'm considering bringing out some additional thoughts of mine, but probably I will do that later.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Yeah, his "evidence" is... "I used a common word a lot and RPed as someone with glasses on". 

Re: Kraken, worth noting that he could still be the SK. He was the last one voting Taff, with Persolus out of the way, so she could easily have wanted him gone; meanwhile, she was pushing him and he reacted, so he'd have had a reason to target her, even though he wasn't paying much attention.

----------


## bladescape

Actually if anyone wants proof I'm not wolf go look at how Taffi explicitly appeals to me to try and get my vote off of 3sc

----------


## Murska

> Actually if anyone wants proof I'm not wolf go look at how Taffi explicitly appeals to me to try and get my vote off of 3sc


Like you couldn't have coached them to do that. :P call me if Cultist flips wolf and I'll believe it.

I'll read Book Wombat and the case against them tomorrow. As it is currently, they're null in my reads so I'm not against the wagon, but there's plenty of time and I might have somewhere better to park my vote later.

----------


## bladescape

And now I'm thinking about this I'm gonna swap back to 3sc in a bit

- - - Updated - - -




> Like you couldn't have coached them to do that. :P call me if Cultist flips wolf and I'll believe it.
> 
> I'll read Book Wombat and the case against them tomorrow. As it is currently, they're null in my reads so I'm not against the wagon, but there's plenty of time and I might have somewhere better to park my vote later.


I'm about to head back to actually doing that. Gonna help me prove my innocence? =P

----------


## Murska

> And now I'm thinking about this I'm gonna swap back to 3sc in a bit
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> I'm about to head back to actually doing that. Gonna help me prove my innocence? =P


Maaaaybe. It's gonna be a long day.

----------


## bladescape

*3SecondCultist*

Thanks to Ti shaking me awake with words I'm back here.

Weak claim + never claimed it when up for being wagoned on d1/d2 smells fake to me.

----------


## Illven

*3 second cultist* as well. If it were named glasses girl instead of geek girl, I might be more hesistant.

----------


## Murska

Copying my current reads list here before going to bed, will decide on what to do tomorrow.

*Towny:*
Murska
JeenLeen

Kraken (mostly due to bad pair with Taffi)
Lady Serpentine (good pressure, and also a wolf wouldn't push a seerclaim like this w/v *or* w/w)
Bladescape (with reservations... especially with an Alpha who chooses their team)
Zelphas (Survivor, not town. Ew, survivor.)

Iffy:
Cazero
Book Wombat

Illven 

Wolfy:
3SecondCultist
BatCatHat
Xumtiil

----------


## JeenLeen

I didn't get networked with anyone new last night.  I'm guessing I was the wolf kill target but got baned.

Hypothetical void/baner: if you targeted me, stay quiet unless you want to give some credence to 3SC's claim (as 2 void/baners makes 2 seerish folk more believable).   If you targeted bladescape or Lady Serpentine, it's possible they're the wolf.   A void/bane on either one of them would have messed up a network attempt I was told happened, and it's possible it also stopped them from killing.

On the other hand, if you feel like 3SC is a good lynch, I can understand you wanting to stay unidentified.
If 3SC flips town, I also feel more wolfreads on those two.

---

Based on our dead wolf's interaction with Zelphas, I'm pretty sure Zelphas isn't a wolf.  But I'm not ruling out serial killer instead of Survivor.
I haven't done an in-depth read on her interactions with others.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Yeah, his "evidence" is... "I used a common word a lot and RPed as someone with glasses on". 
> 
> Re: Kraken, worth noting that he could still be the SK. He was the last one voting Taff, with Persolus out of the way, so she could easily have wanted him gone; meanwhile, she was pushing him and he reacted, so he'd have had a reason to target her, even though he wasn't paying much attention.


If I was the SK - which I am not, to be clear  even assuming we have one - it would be very dumb to actively vote for the person I was about to kill. Like, how would that benefit me at all? I would have just stayed quiet and voted for someone else.

I agree that Cultist is suspicious but the usefulness of his power buys him another day in my books.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Not responding to accusations against you can look bad; reacting and then dropping a kill so they can't react is a valid tactic, just one with inherent risks - but arguably safer than leaving someone who's pushing you hard around.

----------


## Murska

So, looking at the BW case.




> Wagons are lynch-targets, so the ones with votes. We call them wagons because you hop on and off them. D1 just means Day 1.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Welp, got ninja'd.


Bad post. Wolf points.




> Um, sorry to disappoint but I do not really have reads.


This I think is mostly null. A wolf would usually try to make something up or at least not draw attention to it, but there's several of these posts in a row and ehhhh. 




> Reads? I guess I do have some "reads". I find 3SecondCultist a bit suspicious (feels a bit like backpedaling?). Batcathat's back-and-forth also feels a bit odd, but also kinda normal for him I think. JeenLeen is a resounding town and I liked Murska's read list. Dunno, not much else really stood out to me. Xumtiil and Taffi have both good poems, but I don't really have a lean on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the Discord thing, Notifications are automatically on for All Messages I believe. At least that's the case with me.


First post with content. Hedges, nothing actionable, if they're a wolf I think this makes Xumtiil a bit less likely to be a wolf due to proximity with Taffi.




> Oh hey nice; one down, hopefully not many to go. 
> 
> Also, is this a forum bug?


This I think is null. I don't think it's a wolf trying to mislead by intentionally making a mistake, given how BW has played so far, but a wolf making an honest mistake and a townie making the same honest mistake seem equally likely.

- - - Updated - - -

Overall, meh. Low iffy, not quite wolfy yet, but overall not really producing any useful content for solving.

----------


## AvatarVecna

Voting closed, please stand by...

- - - Updated - - -

Wait...I extended the deadline cuz of holiday. Ignore me, my brain's not firing on all cylinders right now. Carry on voting...

(especially since I only found 6 votes)

----------


## Book Wombat

I guess *3SecondCultist* then?

----------


## JeenLeen

3SC is a good lynch candidate.  I find them association with others and activities slightly wolfy, even though I've been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the D1 stuff.
But a counterwagon can give information, and *Book Wombat* also has an odd look.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

> So... Let me see if I have this straight. 3SC was up for lynch yesterday to the point of a tie and didn't say anything, after being frontrunner D1 down to the wire and saying nothing. Now he shows up right after our first wolf flip going "Hi guys, I'm the seer, honest! And Xihirli used their power on me for some reason, not the Innocent Child or herself, haha, isn't she so random? Also, my only scry is untestable." 
> 
> Plus, in a game where the _individual vanilla townies_ have unique role fluff, his is somehow identical to the example of a seer we have? 
> 
> Yeah, no. Not buying it. *3SecondCultist* is a lying liar what lies.


Oh man, you are either a townie tunneling me hard and missing/ignoring what others have already said (namely that my RP posts and all of the D1 content were all hinting at this role well before Aleph's deathflip) or you're a wolf who is doubling down on a wagon attempt with plenty of daylight left. I am more inclined to believe the former than the latter.

Also, I said 'likely Xihirli' with regards to the voiding. It's entirely possible that scumteam has a voider or a baner, and they are using it on me. I don't see that being super probable either, but I definitely got no results D1.

Final point of contention: I was the frontrunner _D2_ and didn't say anything.  :Small Tongue: 

Now, some reads.

*JeenLeen:* They have been confirmed as town by their Innocent Child flip. As towncleared as can be.

*BCH:* Putting aside my scry results for a moment, BCH has been both paranoid and solvy enough to make me townread them. I haven't seen too many wolfsign stuff, and I get the sense they would have been just a little bit pushier if they wanted to build some wagons. Also probably town.

*LetsGetKraken:* I have seen indications of a possible pairing between Kraken and BCH, but I genuinely don't think either are scum. Kraken's suspicion on Taffimai might have been a bus at EoD when it's a T/T day, but honestly he's a better player than that and I don't see him making such a transparent move as scum. Plus, I believe his IRL claims and his logic of 'I would have been more active as a wolf' are true. If he turns out to be a wolf in spite of this, I will be disappointed in him... and that's a rare enough occurrence. Probably town.

*bladescape:* Has been consistently solvy, in multiple cases being the only player pushing the game forward. I'm willing to give him town points for that, even if I'm aware that it could be a wolf ploy. I really hope it isn't. Some pairing to Kraken too, and I don't see a world where they're W/W together. I don't want to pre-flip after last game, but even in a vacuum Bladescape is coming out ahead.

Right now my vote should be going to Ti, but honestly she is reading more town to me than not. *Book Wombat*, both for self preservation and because I see some wolf stuff there.

----------


## JeenLeen

I get 3SC's point, but a wolf could have been laying that framework for a desirable fakeclaim.  I don't think it's incredibly likely, as that's some foundation to lay, but it's not a bad idea. And not mentioning it D1 or D2 kinda makes sense since it wasn't likely to work, but mentioning it now with one wolf already dead (and thus wolves in a worse spot) makes it more reasonable for wolf!3SC to fakeclaim now.

Also, if 3SC flips wolf, that gives a lot of towncred to some others.  Not that they couldn't be distancing and thinking it worthwhile, but I know I have more towncred to Murska, Lady Serpentine, and bladescape if 3SC flips wolf.
And probably a lot more to learn, but I'm suffering flu and not taking the time to read through everything in light of our wolf's flip nor probably cognizant enough to make good use of it.




> Also, I said 'likely Xihirli' with regards to the voiding. It's entirely possible that scumteam has a voider or a baner, and they are using it on me. I don't see that being super probable either, but I definitely got no results D1.


A good point.  It's possible (if the wolves have powers, which I think likely) that the non-Alpha wolf powers mirror some townies.   That could be why Aleph's power wasn't just seer (kinda useless for a wolf), but a mix of different types of info-gathering.
Though that theory is bad for 3SC, and there's no evidence for it.  Just pointing out it's possible.

----------


## Cazero

*Book Wombat* : 4/5 (Batcathat, Illven, JeenLeen, 3SecondCultist, Cazero)
*bladescape* : 1 (Xumtiil)
*3SecondCultist* : 4 (Lady Serpentine, bladescape, Illven, Book Wombat)

Illven, you forgot to cross your Book Wombat vote. It might get miscounted.

I'm of the opinion of letting 3SC get one more read just in case. Don't really have a read on BW but that's them wagons.

----------


## Xumtiil

No one considers Blade a target
That makes me a sad panda
*Cultist* speaks the wolves' argot
Poetry is the only lingua franca




> 3SC is a good lynch candidate.  I find them association with others and activities slightly wolfy, even though I've been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the D1 stuff.
> But a counterwagon can give information, and *Book Wombat* also has an odd look.


Voting Book is a shrug yeet
Even if he does flip scum
It will lead to our defeat
Information gained will be none

----------


## Murska

Ugh... I'm having trouble making my decisions here. I'm looking at one of my top wolfreads reading another one of them town for what feels like very bad reasons. My gut says it's a fakeclaim, but BW hasn't claimed a PR and we're not near losing yet so mechanically it'd be better to give the supposed seer time to live. Unless they're a wolf PR, which they probably are since they're fighting so hard here (and D1 and D2). And I fear that tomorrow me or Blade will be dead and people will again go 'but what if he's the Seer?' or 3SC will come up with a fake wolf scry and then we _will_ be near losing.

Bladescape, JeenLeen - I trust your quotient of town + sensible to be high enough to want some advice. I've got some information that might be of some small value, but it'd require me to claim and can be figured out from my posts if I die in the night with little lost for Town. But I think it'll muddle today's waters even more. And my gut says I want *3SecondCultist* to flip.

----------


## 3SecondCultist

It looks like I am going to be mislynched today. Unfortunate, and definitely my fault; I seem to always draw attention to myself when I'm town. I was an easy target for scum team to wagon, and I fear that all the discussion about me has given the last three wolves a lot more cover than they deserve. Ah well.

I won't have time for a proper legacy posting, but to those town members here: my flip will determine whether BCH is confirmed town or random. If it turns out that he is, then his reads will be worth a lot more. As it is, I think giving *BW* a hard look tomorrow will be warranted, as well as people who have jumped on my wagon with little to no reasoning. *Murska* is the wolfiest of the people on my wagon, I think, but they brought up a good point: if BW flips wolf, then a few other people are less likely (Xumtiil in particular). *Ti* would get wolf points, but the way she is posting leads me to think she is townier than not - she has been tunneling me, but my flip will prove that soon so there's little point in arguing.

Oh and also: I want to believe that *Kraken* is unpaired from BW. That is to say, I don't see a world where they're both wolves. Either today is T/T, in which case I think town is in a bit more trouble, or BW is wolf (or SK, but of the two wolf is more likely) and some real pairings can be done. People should also go back and look at Taff's content more: for a flipped wolf, it gave remarkably little intel for people to dig into.

Apologies for not being consistent this time! I was too busy to play, in hindsight, and being distracted definitely kept me from solving. This will likely be my last post, so farewell townie friends, and good luck.  :Small Smile:

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

*Bookwombat*. Cultist is sketchy but we should give them another opportunity to scry tonight.

----------


## bladescape

You need to fix those tags Kraken.

----------


## Zelphas

I am more distracted than I should be, and my post count is suffering for that; I apologize. From what I can pick up, I think I'm going to put my vote on *Book Wombat* today. I'll try to be more active going forward, as soon as I can.

----------


## JeenLeen

Interesting voting, and I'm almost persuaded to keep 3SC alive.  I crossed out my BW vote, but I guess I might as go all in and *3SecondCultist*.
This was an info-gathering exercise; I agree more info if 3SC dies, though very sorry if he's town.

- - - Updated - - -

If (and it's a strong if) I'm online again before Day ends, I might wind up changing my vote or not voting.  It's nice being declared Town and being able to be hedgy/wish-washy without looking wolfy.   :Small Tongue:

----------


## Illven

> Interesting voting, and I'm almost persuaded to keep 3SC alive.  I crossed out my BW vote, but I guess I might as go all in and *3SecondCultist*.
> This was an info-gathering exercise; I agree more info if 3SC dies, though very sorry if he's town.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> If (and it's a strong if) I'm online again before Day ends, I might wind up changing my vote or not voting.  It's nice being declared Town and being able to be hedgy/wish-washy without looking wolfy.


Unless Vecna's bastard mechanic allows for a fake declaration of confirmed town!  :Small Tongue: 

I do not actually believe this is the case.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Spoiler: Votes*
Show




> *Book Wombat*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *3 second cultist*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *Book Wombat*


[QUOTE=Cazero;25643571]*Book Wombat*/QUOTE]



> *Cultist*





> *3SecondCultist*





> *Bookwombat*





> *Book Wombat*





> *3SecondCultist*


Book Wombat (5): Batcathat, 3SecondCultist, Cazero, Let'sGetKraken, Zelphas
3SecondCultist (7): Lady Serpentine, bladescape, Illven, Book Wombat, Xumtiil, Murska, JeenLeen


*Episode 3-A Ends*

The girls were fairly certain now that there were hidden conspirators among them, sabotaging the rest of the group's chances at true love. When they looked around for diabolical schemers...they found a girl claiming to be the same kind of person as someone who'd already been kicked out of the group. Everyone knows there's only one representative per stereotype in a friend group, it's like...the law, or something!

With 3SC shunned from the group, a quick search of her room found several conspiracy boards covered in tropes - one for each of them. It seems she was a lot more on-the-ball figuring out her fellow girls than Aleph had been...

*3SecondCultist* was lynched. They were *The Geek Girl.*




> You are the Geek Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you've seen this in a movie before! Each night, select one player. You learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice).


*Aleph Null* was actually *The Otaku Girl*. Oops!




> You are the Otaku Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Wrong Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you saw this in a movie once! You are told you are the Geek Girl. Each night, select one player. You do not learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice), but instead learn that information for one random girl. You are told that information as if it is true for the girl you targeted.


*Episode 3-B Will End In ~24 Hours*

----------


## bladescape

Okay so Bat 100% town too.

----------


## Illven

> [spoiler=Votes]
> *Aleph Null* was actually *The Otaku Girl*. Oops!





> *Narrator Confirmation*
> 
> Narrator confirmation of things will be limited, but the narrator will not lie to you; if you are told a thing by the narrator (such as a death reveal, or an answer on a power interaction), it will be the truth. With that being said:


Hmmm.




> [spoiler=Votes]
> *Aleph Null* was actually *The Otaku Girl*. Oops!





> *Narrator Confirmation*
> 
> Narrator confirmation of things will be limited, but the narrator will not lie to you; if you are told a thing by the narrator (such as a death reveal, or an answer on a power interaction), it will be the truth. With that being said:


Hmmm.




> [spoiler=Votes]
> *Aleph Null* was actually *The Otaku Girl*. Oops!





> *Narrator Confirmation*
> 
> Narrator confirmation of things will be limited, but the narrator will not lie to you; if you are told a thing by the narrator (such as a death reveal, or an answer on a power interaction), it will be the truth. With that being said:


hmmm 

 :Small Tongue:

----------


## JeenLeen

So we got rid of the Fool D1.  Not too terrible, and the Fool existing was likely the one bastard mechanic AV had in the game and now we don't have to worry about something else.
This death also yields a lot of info, most of which it isn't good to share during the Night.

One thing I will share is info to try to catch bladescape in a lie, in case he is a lying wolf.  I mostly townread him, but I don't trust my gut with him, and he was pushing strongly for Persolus or 3SC both publicly and privately with me.  Sharing intel from him via my network.
--bladescape claims to have targeted me and himself to network N1.  (As we got networked, I believe this.)
--bladescape claims Zelphas and Illven networked with him N1
--bladescape claims to have tried to network me and Lady Serpentine N2.  This did not happen, but there was also no wolf kill, so I'm guessing a void/baner stopped one of us three and the wolves targeted the same person.
--bladescape claims Zelphas took no action N2.  (Forgot to ask why.  Busy real life and forgot?)
If some watcher/tracker/voider/baner knows something that contradicts the above, let us know and it might help.  But, like, maybe let us know after Day starts?

----------


## Batcathat

Well, that's a shame. In retrospect, I wish I had fought harder against lynching Cultist, but to be honest I wasn't that sure myself. 

Now that I got this nice big target on my back, I should probably try to get some sort of legacy post out before the end of the night.

----------


## Illven

> So we got rid of the Fool D1.  Not too terrible, and the Fool existing was likely the one bastard mechanic AV had in the game and now we don't have to worry about something else.


Would it be the bastard mechanic? From the way you're talking it sounds like Fools are pretty common?

----------


## Xumtiil

> --bladescape claims to have targeted me and himself to network N1.  (As we got networked, I believe this.)


You seem to be missing an option
Blade could still be scum
Networking could be a concoction
that a buddy might have done

No more suspicion of the bat
He seems to be no scaredy wolf cat
To him I tip my hat.

----------


## Batcathat

I'm off to bed soon and since there's probably a decent chance of me waking up dead, here are some (possibly final) thoughts. I haven't had time for any ISOs or anything more in-depth, so take it for what it is.  

*bladescape*: Seems towny, but nothing he can't fake. I feel like I should have more to say about him, but I'm not sure what.*Book Wombat*: Some things look wolfy, very little looks towny. If he flips wolf, Murska and Xumtiil look a little worse for tipping the tie in BW's favor.*Cazero*: I don't have much of a read, but he didn't vote on any of the lynched townies, at least. Probably someone I should ISO if I live long enough.*Illven*: Reading new players is always tricky, feels towny but did push pretty hard for Cultist throughout the game. Could be a tunneling townie or a determined wolf. Another ISO candidate.*Lady Serpentine*: Pushed very hard for Cultist's lynch, but I'm not sure whether that's wolfy or towny. On one hand, getting a possible seer lynched is certainly pro-wolf. On the other hand, I'm not sure a wolf would pretend to be this sure about someone they knew would flip town.*Let'sGetKraken*: First of all, I am curious about why Cultist thought we might be paired, since I don't feel like I've had much interaction with Kraken this game. Anyhow, I don't have much of a read, but the fact that Taff attempted to start a wagon on Kraken when the existing wagons were t/t makes me think Kraken's probably not a wolf, at least.*Murska*: I'm basically still where I was D1 on Murska, I mostly agree with his reasoning but instinctively don't trust him. Waiting to vote Cultist until the wagons were tied could be a wolf hoping he wouldn't have to commit to the mislynch. On the other hand, that hinting at information seems towny. Nothing a wolf couldn't fake, of course, but it would be rather short-sighted since Murska will have to expand on it if he lives long enough and the hints are a little too specific to make it work for anything down the line.*Xumtiil*: I've been suspicious of Xum on and off all game and to some degree I still am, but with the flips of Persolus, Cultist and Taff I'm less so, since it seems unnecessarily risky for two wolves to attempt to start a new wagon at that point.*Zelphas*: I'm leaning towards trusting the neutral claim, though we obviously can't be sure. Not to mention the possibility of being a serial killer rather than a survivor.

----------


## JeenLeen

> Would it be the bastard mechanic? From the way you're talking it sounds like Fools are pretty common?


I see it as bastardy in at least two ways
-there was a Fool, but no hint a Fool might exist.  (I prefer it if it's clear one seer is or might be a fool from game startup, like if there's a list of power roles.)  Not sure if others would consider this bastardy or not.
-the Fool gets randomized info (info on a random player, as opposed to just wrong info)
The latter seems to best bit what I see AV's definition of bastard being, as it involves randomness.

I suppose the mere existence of a Fool (in that a player is misinformed about their power and gets misinformation) could be considered bastardy, too.

...hmm... on a plus side, the existence of a Fool probably means the wolves aren't overpowered.  A fool benefits the wolves, and I think AV knows game balance pretty well, so I think seeing one means (while we should fear the other wolf powers), there's probably nothing too crazy.  On the other hand, I like to assume the worst when it comes to be the wolves to plan for the worst.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Episode 3-B Ends*

The mandatory beach party episode! The girls had a lovely day at the beach, where nobody got betrayed, nobody was secretly a murderer, and Cassie only got mildly antsy about not having a mystery to solve!

*Nobody* died.

*Episode 4-A Ends In ~48 Hours*

----------


## Zelphas

In an effort to continue being transparent and perhaps supply some information, I have a void power and voided *Xumtiil* last night. Since no one died, I'm going to place my vote there for the time being, at least to get some information.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> In an effort to continue being transparent and perhaps supply some information, I have a void power and voided *Xumtiil* last night. Since no one died, I'm going to place my vote there for the time being, at least to get some information.


A survivor with a void and a chat power is.... interesting.

A second night with no wolf kill is even more so. This is the strongest evidence so far. *Xumtil*.

----------


## JeenLeen

Here's the legacy post I wrote for bladescape to post if I died.
*Spoiler: post*
Show



With 3SC flipping town, I'm more suspicious of bladescape, Murska, and Lady Serpentine.  All of them *feel* towny, but their actions against him seem troubling.  That said, I realize I was about as bad.  Also, my post at night (while honest in wanting to catch wolf!bladescape before he NKs me) was exaggerating my suspicion on him.
I will note he was very cool with me posting something like that, which is either very towny "willing to take a hit" or very wolfy "playing it cool to look towny".  Hard to read him.

Batcathat is confirmed Town via the True Seer.

Cazero seems probably Town.  Certain Town if Book Wombat flips wolf.  I don't think a wolf would have joined the wagon to lynch Book Wombat if they knew 3SC was town.



> Also, I'd rather not get 3SC killed today for reasons and might bus a counterwagon if need be.





> *Book Wombat* : 4/5 (Batcathat, Illven, JeenLeen, 3SecondCultist, Cazero)
> *bladescape* : 1 (Xumtiil)
> *3SecondCultist* : 4 (Lady Serpentine, bladescape, Illven, Book Wombat)
> 
> Illven, you forgot to cross your Book Wombat vote. It might get miscounted.
> 
> I'm of the opinion of letting 3SC get one more read just in case. Don't really have a read on BW but that's them wagons.


Cazero would have looked a ton wolfier to me, in light of these, if 3SC had flipped wolf.

I read Illven as town.  Some of that was influenced by bladescape, but I find it reasonable enough that I think even wolf!bladescape would have said it and meant it.

Zelphas as either survivor or serial killer.  I'd rather hunt wolves for now.  Also, we know the number of wolves, so we know if we're down to just the SK to get.

If I have time and aren't still too sick, I'll try to see how folk were acting through the Days to the different lynch victims and Taffimai to get a better sense of who voted town/wolf.






> Ugh... I'm having trouble making my decisions here. I'm looking at one of my top wolfreads reading another one of them town for what feels like very bad reasons. My gut says it's a fakeclaim, but BW hasn't claimed a PR and we're not near losing yet so mechanically it'd be better to give the supposed seer time to live. Unless they're a wolf PR, which they probably are since they're fighting so hard here (and D1 and D2). And I fear that tomorrow me or Blade will be dead and people will again go 'but what if he's the Seer?' or 3SC will come up with a fake wolf scry and then we _will_ be near losing.
> 
> Bladescape, JeenLeen - I trust your quotient of town + sensible to be high enough to want some advice. I've got some information that might be of some small value, but it'd require me to claim and can be figured out from my posts if I die in the night with little lost for Town. But I think it'll muddle today's waters even more. And my gut says I want *3SecondCultist* to flip.


I'd like to hear *Murska*'s tidbit, though I understand if he feels it's not worth claiming to share it yet.  Even given 

Also, some stuff of his post rubs me as a wolf setting up excuses for voting a townie, blaming it on me/bladescape to set up bladescape for lynch.  Though I admit Murska is going elsewhere at the start of Day.
Hoping to read through Murska's posts through the game, but wanted to post and get a vote in one of the folk (beyond me) I rememeber on a strong 3SC bent.

- - - Updated - - -




> In an effort to continue being transparent and perhaps supply some information, I have a void power and voided *Xumtiil* last night. Since no one died, I'm going to place my vote there for the time being, at least to get some information.


Sounds like a JOAT Survivor.
I could believe a Survivor having a kill power even.   Zelphas, are you willing to take credit for or deny doing one of the kills N1?

- - - Updated - - -

Or killing Taffimai.  Hit "Submit" early somehow.

----------


## Illven

> Sounds like a JOAT Survivor.
> I could believe a Survivor having a kill power even.   Zelphas, are you willing to take credit for or deny doing one of the kills N1?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Or killing Taffimai.  Hit "Submit" early somehow.


I don't think a JOAT survivor would be responsible.

We had 2 kills n1, which suggest someone besides wolf is doing killing.
And a wolf kill n2.

A joat could only be responsible for 1, right?

----------


## Xumtiil

I made a chat with Taffy,
Which Persolus also claimed
I also talked to Cassie,
Who for nothing can be blamed.

My third was the Bat
Which did not go through
Those are all I had
And none I can prove true.

But I do wonder still
Where is the second kill?

----------


## Illven

Anyone else wanna say they baned or voided someone then?

----------


## Batcathat

Alright, not only am I alive but so are all the other townies (and wolves, but I suppose you can't have everything). 

Not sure what to think about Xum yet. I was starting to trust him but getting voided on a night with no kills is pretty damning. It could be that he's an SK and the wolves ran into some other issue with their kill (More voiding? Bane? Extra life?), but that's obviously not much better than being a wolf. I was kind of expecting Xum to claim vig, not sure whether this claim is more or less trustworthy.

- - - Updated - - -

Just in case Zelphas is a wolf and this is a way of getting the last lynch they need, there's no way today's LYLO, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Assuming three wolves and one neutral, today should be 7-3-1. We lynch a townie and it's 6-3-1 tonight. Two townies are killed in the night and it's 4-3-1 by morning. I think that's the worst case scenario, so probably not LYLO.

----------


## JeenLeen

There's been no speculation on who Taffimai might've chosen as scumbuddies, has there?  I realize such speculation is probably fruitless, but here I go.
We know I and Batcathat are town.

As a player picked the wolves alone, I can see at least one of bladescape/Murska, as both are considered tricky experienced players from the "old" days of the forum community (before this game got revived a couple years ago).  Was Lady Serpentine from those days as well?  She joined the current games while I was fairly distracted/away.
bladescape is really good, but also someone who often gets suspected due to his behavior (as town or wolf) and could get lynched easy.  So 50/50 odds?

Book Wombat got some heat, so how about him?  He's often quiet and flys under the radar, but still around.  I'm not sure if that would be seen as desirable for a scumbuddy or not.

I don't have enough experience playing with Illven or Cazero to say anything.  Nor really Let'sGetKraken.
Zelphas has played well.  I can see them getting recruited, but Taffimai seemed to be pushing for his wagon earlier in the game.  I should look back to see if that wagon seemed strong enough to have a chance to win.
Xumtiil... I can see her being recruited.

----------


## bladescape

Ti is from the ollllld days as well yes.

----------


## Illven

> There's been no speculation on who Taffimai might've chosen as scumbuddies, has there?  I realize such speculation is probably fruitless, but here I go.
> We know I and Batcathat are town.
> 
> As a player picked the wolves alone, I can see at least one of bladescape/Murska, as both are considered tricky experienced players from the "old" days of the forum community (before this game got revived a couple years ago).  Was Lady Serpentine from those days as well?  She joined the current games while I was fairly distracted/away.
> bladescape is really good, but also someone who often gets suspected due to his behavior (as town or wolf) and could get lynched easy.  So 50/50 odds?
> 
> Book Wombat got some heat, so how about him?  He's often quiet and flys under the radar, but still around.  I'm not sure if that would be seen as desirable for a scumbuddy or not.
> 
> I don't have enough experience playing with Illven or Cazero to say anything.  Nor really Let'sGetKraken.
> ...


I suggested it, but was told that such thoughts can lead to a vicious loop of. "Well this player is obvious." "Yeah that would make Taffi not pick them." "Unless they thought we'd think that could make them too obvious."

But unless someone wants to come through with another baned, or voided target.

*Xumtiil*

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> I made a chat with Taffy,
> Which Persolus also claimed
> I also talked to Cassie,
> Who for nothing can be blamed.
> 
> My third was the Bat
> Which did not go through
> Those are all I had
> And none I can prove true.
> ...


So, no one alive to corroborate any of this? And even if it was true, wolves almost certainly have networking powers too - would be too much of a giveaway otherwise. Keeping my vote where it is. 

Curious what you talked to Cassie about. Mind elaborating?

Jeen, do you have any other information you think might be worth sharing?

----------


## Batcathat

> There's been no speculation on who Taffimai might've chosen as scumbuddies, has there?


I haven't gotten much further than the problem I talked about earlier of experience and personal preference versus unpredictability. If I were Taff, I would try to avoid this situation by keeping my selections at least partially random or otherwise unexpected. Of course, there's always the double bluff of picking exactly the expected wolves, banking on us dismissing the possibility. 

So while hearing other people's thoughts on it would be interesting, I suspect it won't help us much with the wolf hunt. Maaaaaybe if we find two wolves and notice some pattern that can help us find the third, but even then Taff might've intentionally subverted a pattern like that.

----------


## Cazero

JeenLeen, Xumtiil asked me to tell you "I like a nice shrimp soufflé".



> Maaaaaybe if we find two wolves and notice some pattern that can help us find the third, but even then Taff might've intentionally subverted a pattern like that.


On the other hand, we're very unlikely to stumble upon all pieces of a pattern except the one that happens to go against expectations.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, nobody dead this night? I'd love to see a voider claim different from our self-appointed survivor.

Also I feel like pressuring *bladescape* a little. Maybe get him to spout something less cryptic.

----------


## JeenLeen

I asked privately, and AV confirmed there is *one* bastard mechanic.  But the bastard mechanic is *not* the Fool.   She considers that too normal to be a bastard mechanic.  She also said it wasn't the wolves' picking their team, which she doesn't consider bastard but could see someone making that argument as it's a non-normal thing.
So it's still out there, perhaps muddling our info/analysis.
I have some theories about a vortexer not knowing they are a vortexer, but it's iffy and annoying if true.




> JeenLeen, Xumtiil asked me to tell you "I like a nice shrimp soufflé"


I will confirm I'm in a chat with Xumtiil, and Xumtiil does indeed appear to be in a chat with Cazero based on this statement.
None of this gives much evidence one way or another towards anyone's alignment.




> So, no one alive to corroborate any of this? And even if it was true, wolves almost certainly have networking powers too - would be too much of a giveaway otherwise. Keeping my vote where it is. 
> 
> Curious what you talked to Cassie about. Mind elaborating?
> 
> Jeen, do you have any other information you think might be worth sharing?


From talking with Xumtiil: indeed, nobody alive can collaborate her story, and it's fully possible Zelphas voided her.
Xumtiil told me she wanted to test a bastard mechanic, so she made a chat with "Cassie".  It put her in a chat with AV.

I don't really have anything else I should share.  Some things I _could_ share if circumstances proved it necessary, but at this point sharing would just help the wolves.
Well, sharing on purpose.  My unfamiliarity with Discord led to me accidentally leaking something to bladescape due to clicking the wrong Channel.  So really hoping he's Town.  (Note this is not a reason to kill him.  If he's Town, it's good he knows.  If he's wolf, he's already told the wolves so killing him doesn't help.)

As I'm not 100% cognitively (still got some flu), I'm going to try to be relatively quiet lest I give away I shouldn't.

----------


## Illven

> I have some theories about a vortexer not knowing they are a vortexer, but it's iffy and annoying if true.


Based on what I asked Vecna, this would almost certainly violate Rule 1. (The narrator won't lie to you)

The only way I could see it working, is if someone had a power swap feature.

----------


## bladescape

I'm almost certain that Xum void isn't what stopped the kill.

But I don't have strong reason to defend them outside ego.

Because if I'm wrong on them here it means that I actually don't have a good read on Xum and the last game catch was luck.

....

Ego it is

----------


## Illven

> I'm almost certain that Xum void isn't what stopped the kill.
> 
> But I don't have strong reason to defend them outside ego.
> 
> Because if I'm wrong on them here it means that I actually don't have a good read on Xum and the last game catch was luck.
> 
> ....
> 
> Ego it is


What do you think stopped the kills?

----------


## Batcathat

> I'm almost certain that Xum void isn't what stopped the kill.
> 
> But I don't have strong reason to defend them outside ego.
> 
> Because if I'm wrong on them here it means that I actually don't have a good read on Xum and the last game catch was luck.
> 
> ....
> 
> Ego it is


I think the fact that there was no kill at all when there's clearly a second NK in the mix makes Xum more likely to be guilty (though personally I'm leaning SK rather than wolf, which might be my own ego speaking). If the voiding didn't stop Xum from killing someone (and possibly didn't happen at all), that means two kills were presumably stopped by some other means. Which is certainly possible, but feels less likely, especially in what's advertised as a game with few power roles.

----------


## bladescape

Reason I think it didn't stop kill is because Zelphas preventing kills doesn't jive with how n2 happened.

That being said.

BCH actually is right in that maybe SK which I hadn't thought of.

But I have another reason to think there's someone else stopping kills.

----------


## Murska

I can help with info today! Sorry I'm here so late, had a couple back-to-back full-day events.

So I'm the _Nurse Girl_. My power is to give someone a Checkup, letting me keep them in bed for a time. _Each night, select one player. That player cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones._

The first night, I checked up on BatCatHat. No feedback. The second night, I went hunting for a possible Serial Killer, and hit Illven. However, the kill that was missing was probably the Wolf kill unless something strange like a Vortex was at play. I didn't want to bring it up early, since it'd stifle discussion. Then late in the day when I got back on, there was a very juicy competition between two wagons, one of which was one of my big wolf leans and a treasure trove of information besides. (One that I haven't had time to dig into yet unfortunately.) I felt that if I'd muddle the waters with my claim that late in the day, the most likely end result would've been that the wolves dilute the vote and manage to get 3SC off the hook - apologies on that one, I was super wrong. I just don't understand why they didn't claim earlier.

I went into night 3 with the thought that if Illven was a wolf kill, then probably someone else would be carrying that but in the end since I was busy I went with *Illven* again since at least if they're a wolf they'd probably have some kind of power. And today, there are no kills at all.

----------


## bladescape

I have mechanical evidence that Illven is town.

Jeen has my reasons for it and can decide whether to confirm. He should be able to 100% clear Illven from that info _even if I am wolf_.

...

Unless the bastard mechanic is a hilarious one.

But probably not

----------


## Murska

Hmm. Well, that's... good? But I really thought I was stopping kills. Is Illven a Vigilante?

----------


## Batcathat

> I can help with info today! Sorry I'm here so late, had a couple back-to-back full-day events.
> 
> So I'm the _Nurse Girl_. My power is to give someone a Checkup, letting me keep them in bed for a time. _Each night, select one player. That player cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones._
> 
> The first night, I checked up on BatCatHat. No feedback. The second night, I went hunting for a possible Serial Killer, and hit Illven. However, the kill that was missing was probably the Wolf kill unless something strange like a Vortex was at play. I didn't want to bring it up early, since it'd stifle discussion. Then late in the day when I got back on, there was a very juicy competition between two wagons, one of which was one of my big wolf leans and a treasure trove of information besides. (One that I haven't had time to dig into yet unfortunately.) I felt that if I'd muddle the waters with my claim that late in the day, the most likely end result would've been that the wolves dilute the vote and manage to get 3SC off the hook - apologies on that one, I was super wrong. I just don't understand why they didn't claim earlier.
> 
> I went into night 3 with the thought that if Illven was a wolf kill, then probably someone else would be carrying that but in the end since I was busy I went with *Illven* again since at least if they're a wolf they'd probably have some kind of power. And today, there are no kills at all.


Hmm. While it does seem a little convenient that two voiders happened to stop two kills (assuming Xum and Illven are some combination of serial killer and wolf) and that we even still have two voiders after Xi flipped, it does seem to explain the lack of kills, so let's go with *Illven* for now. Probably good for discussion to have more than one wagon, in any case.

- - - Updated - - -




> I have mechanical evidence that Illven is town.
> 
> Jeen has my reasons for it and can decide whether to confirm. He should be able to 100% clear Illven from that info _even if I am wolf_.
> 
> ...
> 
> Unless the bastard mechanic is a hilarious one.
> 
> But probably not


Alright, this might take the record for my shortest vote ever. I guess I'll trust you for now, at least.

----------


## bladescape

I have come to a quick realisation that it's not 100% and I'm a dumbass.

But like, still leaning on probably town.

Also this is assuming the bastard mech isn't in play

- - - Updated - - -

Jeen has all my reasons and thoughts for the above.

I'll let him make the call.

----------


## Murska

Okay, well, someone give me some thoughts on Bladescape's play here. Is this a wolf trying to save another? It _really_ doesn't read like that, and we shouldn't be at the point where they can afford to throw away their covers for mislynches.

----------


## JeenLeen

Hey, for what it's worth and to clarify things that aren't particularly relevant to the questions at the forefront: I said earlier that bladescape said Illven and Zelphas networked with him N1.
bladescape actually told me he _was networked_ with them both N1.  Zelphas did the networking for the Zelphas/bladescape chat (or so I'm told Zelphas told bladescape), but Illven and he were networked together by a third party.
This isn't particularly pertinent, but while I want to catch a wolf in a lie, I don't want it to be a mistake based on a mistake I made reading things.

I find that odd, but apparently Persolus spent his action connecting Xumtiil with Taffimai N1, so I guess some folk were doing that (that is, networking two folk not themselves).

On questions more at the forefront: I'm contemplating the implications of Murska's claim.

----------


## bladescape

> Okay, well, someone give me some thoughts on Bladescape's play here. Is this a wolf trying to save another? It _really_ doesn't read like that, and we shouldn't be at the point where they can afford to throw away their covers for mislynches.


I mean if I was partnered I'd just help you kill them and then get rid of you at night.

In other unrelated news I'm thinking about voting them.

(This post is a joke before anyone susses me for it.)

- - - Updated - - -

In more serious news I am seriously considering I got too excited and jumped the gun with my Illven post.

----------


## JeenLeen

> I can help with info today! Sorry I'm here so late, had a couple back-to-back full-day events.
> 
> So I'm the _Nurse Girl_. My power is to give someone a Checkup, letting me keep them in bed for a time. _Each night, select one player. That player cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones._
> 
> The first night, I checked up on BatCatHat. No feedback.


Do you have reason to believe you'd get feedback?

----------


## Murska

> Do you have reason to believe you'd get feedback?


No feedback as in, no kills missing and no-one's said anything in-thread that'd look like I did something. I don't get any responses from AV.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

....huh. is the bastard mechanic that none of the non-Taffimai wolves know they're wolves? They were converted, but they might not have been made aware of that. So that when they use their powers, there's a chance that it's actually a wolf kill instead?

I really don't like Blade playing this close to the chest here, especially since this is a really solid case against Illven (assuming we can trust Murska, which is not necessarily the case).

----------


## Illven

> ....huh. is the bastard mechanic that none of the non-Taffimai wolves know they're wolves? They were converted, but they might not have been made aware of that. So that when they use their powers, there's a chance that it's actually a wolf kill instead?
> 
> I really don't like Blade playing this close to the chest here, especially since this is a really solid case against Illven (assuming we can trust Murska, which is not necessarily the case).



I don't believe that could be the case. Would violate rule 1 of game.

----------


## Cazero

> ....huh. is the bastard mechanic that none of the non-Taffimai wolves know they're wolves? They were converted, but they might not have been made aware of that. So that when they use their powers, there's a chance that it's actually a wolf kill instead?


That would explain things. But how are they supposed to figure out they're wolves, and how are we supposed to deduce if they don't even know?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, if every time you target people one of them dies, you can do the math. But that's probably not what's happening with two nights with missing wolf kills.

----------


## Batcathat

While I'm still not sure about blade (or Illven or anyone else not Jeen, really), I got a wolfy vibe from the way *Murska* presented the case and then quickly backed away when it seemed to fall apart. 

Also, if the bastard mechanic is that the wolves don't know they're wolves, that might actually be worse than when the narrator was a killer.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Murska

Uh, I haven't backed away.

----------


## JeenLeen

I'm not opposed to a Xumtiil-lynch, but I also have thought for a while there's a wolf voider.  Murska could be 100% honest in what he said about Night actions and still be a wolf.

I'd like to hear a more detailed claim from Zelphas.  They already claimed neutral.  I don't see a reason not to reveal more at this stage in the game, especially if it helps us ferret out who did what.  

I really wish we knew who killed Taffimai.
Wait... maybe I can figure it out by process of elimination.  There's some power claims private and public, and I know who has done some network actions.  Maybe (assuming some honesty and no vortexer) I can figure out who could be a power role but hasn't claimed one.  (If I figure this out, I probably won't state it publicly unless it helps resolve today's confusion.)

----------


## Batcathat

> I'm not opposed to a Xumtiil-lynch, but I also have thought for a while there's a wolf voider.  Murska could be 100% honest in what he said about Night actions and still be a wolf.


That is a good point (and would invalidate the towncred I gave for the hinting at information). We know town had a voider, Zelphas has claimed to be a neutral voider so the wolves having one would make a certain amount of sense. (That said, I had a lot of fun over people trying to find patterns that didn't exist in power disposition during my game, so we shouldn't read too much into it).

One upside to lynching Murska might be that we could probably clear blade if Murska flips wolf, I really don't think that was an intentional plan (or is that just what the wolves want us to think?).

----------


## Murska

If we're looking at a Wolf voider as well, then I think we definitely have several killers and probably other powerful roles about. No-one's made contact with me yet, so I'm presuming this town's rather light on VTs.

----------


## bladescape

Jeen may not like it but after clarifications I rescind my clearing of Illven.

To clarify, Jeen gave me some little info that combined with info I had from other sources suggested Illven was clear. Jeen has not explicitly admitted he lied to me but the implication of his responses is that he lied to me. Which I don't blame him for, lying to me as an attempt to gauge if I'm wolf is 100% okay.

I then tried to take full credit for the info in thread for obvious reasons.

Will need to ruminate on things.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

I am from the Olden Times, but I don't believe I have the sort of reputation that Blade or Murska have. I also don't know Taffimai particularly well, so I can't speak to who she'd have picked in particular. 

Blade and Murska are potentially strong picks, but also easy mislynches. And I suspect that in a game where our lynches and NKs had been less odd, a town with Blade, Murska, and Snow would tear itself apart. 

The really gutsy play would be something like Kraken/Illven and then I'm not sure who else who's alive is new enough to fly under the radar on grounds of nobody knowing them yet. Let the high-profile townies and people who know each other of old tear each other apart and then when it comes down to the wire nobody knows how to read anyone.

----------


## JeenLeen

Assuming I haven't been lied to, Zelphas didn't do it, and there's no vortexer, I have the "who could have killed Taffimai" down to three players.  I've told, or basically told, those I'm networked with, but I want to keep it private for now.
bladescape and Illven have the list, if I die.
Those are pretty big assumptions anyhow.

I'll say more about Illven later if I feel a need, but the main wagon isn't on them, I don't want it on them, and I'm fine with folk discussing suspicion of them.

- - - Updated - - -




> It's interesting how many wagons have been being started by people going 'I don't trust this person! Now, let me vote for this other person because of what they said; I think they made some really good points.' Kind of feels like people trying to preemptively cover their asses because they're expecting a town flip.


Old post from D2, but Lady Serpentine: who were you referring to in this?  You remember?

----------


## Lady Serpentine

That was in regards to Kraken.

----------


## JeenLeen

Read everything up to the current Day.  Here's my thoughts.  I know this posting is probably really annoying to read as I'm not quoting anything, but I'm too lazy/busy for that.

---

ISO time.  I really prefer it when others take the time to do these, but they're spectators or the Narrator this game.
Well, I'm not actually doing ISOs, but I'm reading through the read.

*Day 1 Reads*
Post 108 -  Xumtiil throws shade on Cazero.  Also, based on my chat with her, I'm inclined to think Cazero is not wolf if Xumtiil flips wolf.
Post 121 - Taffimai votes Zelphas instead of me (after I got Innocent Child reveal).  Defends me and Book Wombat.  Doesn't exonerate Book Wombat (I think), but towncred to him.  
Post 150 - bladescape votes Zelphas near day end.  Pretty sure they aren't the same team.

Null Book Wombat, Murska, Lady Serpentine.  Murska and Lady Serpentine were on townies, but so was basically everyone.
Don't like the feel of Cazero and Xumtiil in light of stuff.  Nothing solid, just gut feeling.

*Night 1*

Post 162 - Taffimai requests Zelphas townsides.  Something about this sounds odd in light of her flip.  Trying to look townie?  Set up shade on Zelphas for if she dies?  I'll rule out chatting with a scumbuddy based on D1.  WIFOM spiral to interpret this.

Lady Serpentine ups the heat on 3SC, albeit in a reasonable way.

I'm guessing Snowblaze was the vig/SK kill and Xihirli the wolf kill.

*Day 2*

169 - Xumtiil compliments Taffimai in a way I don't like based on her flip, but perhaps overbiased by heat on her today
173 - Xumtiil protects Book Wombat slightly?  Useful if Xumtiil flips wolf.
177 - Cazero votes Murska.  Could be wolf distancing, but D2 seems risky since no 3SC wagon has started heavy yet.  I get a sense they aren't scumbuddies.
180 - Murska's reads on stuff.  Sounds legit, could be less so.  WIFOM makes hard to interrpet wolfishness.
184 - Murska pro-Illven.  Null-Cezero. Makes argument that basically gets Persolus lynched.
186 - Taffimai pro-Murska more than most.  Don't like that for Murska, but hard to interpret again.
	NOTE: post 261: I think Murska is saying here that Taffimai might be setting him up via this post
203 - Taffimai tries to start a Kraken wagon.  Dangerous to do for distancing.  Seems good for Kraken.
205 - Xumtiil joins Kraken wagon.  If Xumtiil is wolf, I think we can towncore Kraken.
212 - Taffimai stays on anti-Kraken
226 - I like this from Lady Serpentine, but I can't tell who it is casting shade at.  Hence asking her.

Overall, I trust Kraken now.  If Xumtiil flips wolf, moreso.  Xumtiil looks worse, but nothing hard.
Don't think Cazero and Murska are on the same team.
Overall null on Murska and Lady Serpentine.  Always null on Book Wombat.

*Night 2 No Data*

*Day 3*

First post: bladescape votes 3SC, but backs off after claim to Book Wombat on post 245.
250 - reminder that here foreword I think Xumtiil has been anti-bladescape.  Not sure, could be distancing, but makes me think both likely aren't wolves.
255 - Lady Serpentine makes a strong anti-3SC post.  But the reasoning is solid.  Hard to tell if a wolf being bold or a townie using logic.
269 - if Xumtiil flips wolf, Murska looks a little better.  But that's based on something not backed up via votes, so maybe it's distancing.  WIFOM?
273 - Murska anti-BW, but no vote to back it up.  Null?  Useful if one flips wolf?
279 - Cazero joins the BW wagon.  Pretty sure they both are not wolves.
280 - Xumtiil joins the 3SC wagon after BW started and kinda defends BW.
Soon after, Kraken and Zelphas also vote Book Wombat.

If Cazero is a wolf, BW isn't.
If BW is a wolf, Cazero, Kraken, and Zelphas are not.
If Xumtiil is a wolf, towncred to Murska and some suspicion on Book Wombat?
Hard to read anything solid on bladescape, Lady Serpentine, or Murska.   WIFOM and everyone was mostly against the seer.

- - - Updated - - -




> That was in regards to Kraken.


Looks a touch bad in that I trust Kraken, but also a legit complaint to stuff a few folk were saying back then so nothing really bad to Lady Serpentine.
The sincerity in the answer feels towny.

----------


## Murska

Brings back memories of the bad old times of townies hiding in secret quicktopics and being mysterious in the thread.

Okay, so Illven isn't clear. I've voided them twice, and both times, a kill has been missing, presuming the wolves didn't kill their own Alpha. That's my case on them.

I thought they were much more likely to be SK than a wolf, since they didn't show signs of being coached in wolf chat, but if that's true then I don't know what happened yesterday. However, apparently there are other ways for kills to disappear. Our Baner is dead, but I would like to know who Zelphas voided N2.

----------


## JeenLeen

Nothing new to share as a new literal day starts this Day, but I'll say a little bit pro-Illven.

I don't want to give away Illven's proof she's Town.  It is solid proof, baring a severely bastardy move I don't think AV would do.  
bladescape was puzzled because some stuff made it look like it was a complete fuzz, and the "lie" was that the thought the info I leaked by accident was leaked on purpose to mislead him in case he's a wolf.   But sadly I wasn't being that devious and it was an incompetent info-leak.

---

Hey, Cazero.  You spoke about Lovers D1.  Do you want to claim?   We know there's three wolves left, and it looks like Xumtiil is getting lynched today.  If we can tie you to someone who isn't locktown and consider you both town, that could let us figure out who the three wolves are.
Normally I'd be against such a claim, but it might make it how we only have 4 "not (probably) know alignment" and, after lynching Xumtiil today, we'd know the wolves.  (Assuming Zelphas is Survivor.)

- - - Updated - - -

And feel free to pass me the info via Xumtiil if you'd rather not talk publicly.  If she does flip town, I can trust it was passed to me without distortion.

- - - Updated - - -




> I thought they were much more likely to be SK than a wolf, since they didn't show signs of being coached in wolf chat, but if that's true then I don't know what happened yesterday. However, apparently there are other ways for kills to disappear. Our Baner is dead, but I would like to know who Zelphas voided N2.


I believe I was told Zelphas told someone he didn't do an action (beyond networking) N2.  Though I'd like to hear it from Zelphas directly, as I don't completely trust my memory or that I didn't get my Nights muddled.

----------


## Murska

You say you have solid proof Illven is town? Then, are they a killing role? Should I keep voiding them? If not, who should I target?

It's really demotivating to solve when people keep referring to secret information.

----------


## Batcathat

> You say you have solid proof Illven is town? Then, are they a killing role? Should I keep voiding them? If not, who should I target?
> 
> It's really demotivating to solve when people keep referring to secret information.


While I wasn't the one being asked, my suggestion would be BW (assuming Xum is lynched). Though that's only due to him being one of my current top wolf leans (after Xum and yourself), so suggestions based on anything more solid and specific should probably take precedent. 

I do kind of agree about the second part, I generally prefer games where all communication (besides obvious exceptions like wolves, masons, etc) take place in the thread.

----------


## JeenLeen

> You say you have solid proof Illven is town? Then, are they a killing role? Should I keep voiding them? If not, who should I target?
> 
> It's really demotivating to solve when people keep referring to secret information.


Please do not void Illven; it shouldn't help anything.
Book Wombat, Xumtiil, Lady Serpentine, bladescape, and (at least unless he answers my question well) Cazero are the ones I'd consider worth voiding.  bladescape is last on that list (e.g., the one I trust most), mostly because he's the only one I'm networked with and he's been helpful networking me with others.  Even if he is a wolf, he has an incentive to keep working with me (at least until the wolves decide to kill me) to keep towncred.

The reason for that list is that I consider myself, Batcathat, and Illven town, and I'd like the supposed-survivor Zelphas to be active.

----------


## Cazero

> Hey, Cazero.  You spoke about Lovers D1.  Do you want to claim?


No twins here. I'm the sporty girl. One guess at what I do.

----------


## JeenLeen

I don't really trust Murska, but I also feel iffy about *Xumtiil* and her death might yield more info.
And if Murska is town, we want him around.

----------


## Illven

> No twins here. I'm the sporty girl. One guess at what I do.


If you can beat Vecna in a shootoff you autowin the game?  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Batcathat

> I don't really trust Murska, but I also feel iffy about *Xumtiil* and her death might yield more info.
> And if Murska is town, we want him around.


I'm a little split. On one hand, I mostly agree with this. On the other, I still feel like Xum might be a more likely SK than wolf and while catching a serial killer would be nice, a wolf would probably be more helpful. 

That said, if Xum is still in the lead by the time I go to bed, I'll probably move my vote there to hopefully limit the risk of last minute wolf shenanigans.

It has also occurred to me that my speculations about only accounted for one neutral, while two (presumably an honest Zelphas and a serial killer) would change things around a little. Though even in the worst case scenario, I _think_ it's still not LYLO today.

- - - Updated - - -

"Speculations about _LYLO_", that is.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Murska

If there is a SK, catching them is much better than catching one wolf, because it cuts the number of attempted anti-town nightkills in half. Which is why I've been hunting for one.

----------


## Batcathat

> If there is a SK, catching them is much better than catching one wolf, because it cuts the number of attempted anti-town nightkills in half. Which is why I've been hunting for one.


Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Partially because catching a wolf can hopefully lead us to other wolves (and we're getting very close to where we can't afford to lynch a townie), partially because an SK can target wolves too (and with three wolves remaining, they probably should try to. An SK that's left with nothing but wolves is doomed, after all).

----------


## JeenLeen

*Book Wombat* or Zelphas, y'all want to add anything?

- - - Updated - - -

(Feels like a long time 'til Night, even if it's just this evening.  I'm bored and wanna stir things up.)

----------


## Book Wombat

> *Book Wombat* or Zelphas, y'all want to add anything?


Not especially, just that I'm as confused as always.
I guess *Xumtiil*?

----------


## Murska

> Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Partially because catching a wolf can hopefully lead us to other wolves (and we're getting very close to where we can't afford to lynch a townie), partially because an SK can target wolves too (and with three wolves remaining, they probably should try to. An SK that's left with nothing but wolves is doomed, after all).


That depends on their win con, doesn't it?

----------


## Zelphas

> I believe I was told Zelphas told someone he didn't do an action (beyond networking) N2.  Though I'd like to hear it from Zelphas directly, as I don't completely trust my memory or that I didn't get my Nights muddled.


I apologize for going radio silence; it was not my intention.

I used my void power for the first time last night, so I cannot claim to have stopped the wolves from killing on N2.

I have not killed anyone who has died so far; I cannot kill.

I am... much less attentive to this game than I should be, and for that I apologize. I'm keeping my vote very tentatively on Xumtiil. I will plan to check through as much of this as I can and post at least once more before EoD; I apologize if that does not happen.

----------


## Batcathat

> That depends on their win con, doesn't it?


I suppose, though I can't think of anything resembling an SK that would do very well alone with the wolves. In any case, it's not like I'm opposed to busting a serial killer, it's something we have to do eventually at any rate and while their killing can benefit us, it can also screw us. 

Anyhow, let's see what's hiding behind *Xumtiil*'s lovely poems.

----------


## Xumtiil

I love the attention
I shall not tell a lie
But it wasn't my intention
For me to already die

Bonus Haiku:
This much is my truth
I'm not a killer, I swear
Only in my looks.

*Bladescape*

Ugh. Tough crowd.  Just the way I like'm

----------


## bladescape

*Book Wombat*

Hm hm hm

----------


## Murska

Doesn't look like Illven's a thing. Counterwagon to see vote movements is a go. *Book Wombat*.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

The question of if an SK can do alright alone with wolves hinges primarily on if they can win with either side (or just wolves) or not; if they can, it's in their interests to target as few wolves as possible so that they end the game in a win for them both as fast as possible, before they get lynched or - if susceptible - hit by the NK, because trying to target wolves to push a town win is almost certainly going to be slower. 

For instance, if the SK has a quota and wins so long as they killed that many people and survived, they want to reach that goal as fast as possible and then end the game as fast as possible thereafter. Since one NK (presumably) never hits wolves, hitting wolves slows the game down. 

(If the SK has specific targets, things become more complicated. They still want to meet their goal and end the game as fast as possible, but it may be in their interests to slow the game down until they have met their goal, which is rarely going to be the case with a quota because that goal is much harder to fail.) 

Now, moving on from that: 

JeenLeen, can you please clarify what kind of mechanical basis you have for clearing Illven? Unless there is a second Seer (which for balance reasons I highly doubt, particularly as there should _absolutely_ have been counterclaims to 3SC if so, particularly given it would presumably need a second fool) who you're in contact with, I'm not sure what reason you _could_ have for it. 

Chat creation was explicitly stated to not be proof of being a villager, she's not a second Innocent Child, and according to Murska she's been voided twice, which would make it very hard for her to have power results - not to mention that the only power I can think of that would provide demonstrable results takes us back to a second Seer, in this case, her. Unless you're proposing that she's a vigilante who killed Taffimai through a void, in which case, I question why she can't be a serial killer. 

I'm going to vote *Xumtiil* for now, I guess, but this really stinks of you getting tricked by a wolf now that they know the Seer is dead.

----------


## bladescape

If Jeen isn't lying to me I can confirm it's actually pretty mech clearing lol.

Barring bastard mech.

----------


## JeenLeen

> The question of if an SK can do alright alone with wolves hinges primarily on if they can win with either side (or just wolves) or not; if they can, it's in their interests to target as few wolves as possible so that they end the game in a win for them both as fast as possible, before they get lynched or - if susceptible - hit by the NK, because trying to target wolves to push a town win is almost certainly going to be slower. 
> 
> For instance, if the SK has a quota and wins so long as they killed that many people and survived, they want to reach that goal as fast as possible and then end the game as fast as possible thereafter. Since one NK (presumably) never hits wolves, hitting wolves slows the game down. 
> 
> (If the SK has specific targets, things become more complicated. They still want to meet their goal and end the game as fast as possible, but it may be in their interests to slow the game down until they have met their goal, which is rarely going to be the case with a quota because that goal is much harder to fail.)


While there could be a neutral hunting a particular player/role, I don't think I've heard of a Serial Killer with a goal other than "kill everyone else", except maybe they are sometimes okay with other neutrals staying alive.




> JeenLeen, can you please clarify what kind of mechanical basis you have for clearing Illven? Unless there is a second Seer (which for balance reasons I highly doubt, particularly as there should _absolutely_ have been counterclaims to 3SC if so, particularly given it would presumably need a second fool) who you're in contact with, I'm not sure what reason you _could_ have for it. 
> 
> Chat creation was explicitly stated to not be proof of being a villager, she's not a second Innocent Child, and according to Murska she's been voided twice, which would make it very hard for her to have power results - not to mention that the only power I can think of that would provide demonstrable results takes us back to a second Seer, in this case, her. Unless you're proposing that she's a vigilante who killed Taffimai through a void, in which case, I question why she can't be a serial killer. 
> 
> I'm going to vote *Xumtiil* for now, I guess, but this really stinks of you getting tricked by a wolf now that they know the Seer is dead.


It's not a seer and it's not that she can make chats.  If I thought chat creation cleared someone, I'd have towncored bladescape a while ago  :Small Tongue: 
I'm honestly not sure to read you as a wolf trying to get me to reveal more than I should, or as a townie honestly frustrated/worried about lack of information.  Though I guess the same can be said for Murska, just they aren't showing it as strongly.

- - - Updated - - -




> If Jeen isn't lying to me I can confirm it's actually pretty mech clearing lol.
> 
> Barring bastard mech.


Last minute double-cross.  The bastard mech is that I'm a wolf!  Vote *bladescape!*

Just kidding: *Xumtiil*
Though if she flips wolf, I _really_ don't like the look of those who joined the BW wagon... or so I want some folk to think.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Spoiler: Votes*
Show




> *Xumtiil*





> *Xumtil*





> *Xumtiil*





> *bladescape*





> *Xumtiil*





> *Xumtiil*





> *Bladescape*





> *Book Wombat*





> *Book Wombat*





> *Xumtiil*





> *Xumtiil*


Xumtiil (7): Zelphas, Let'sGetKraken, Illven, Book Wombat, Batcathat, Lady Serpentine, JeenLeen
bladescape (2): Cazero, Xumtiil
Book Wombat (2): bladescape, Murska


*Episode 4-A Ends*

This episode saw Cassie solving a mystery that had run the length of the series so far: someone had occasionally be swiping stuff from this girl or that girl, with nary a clue to point to the culprits. Nonetheless, our protagonist was on the case, and that meant it was only a matter of time before the situation was rectified!

After several robberies occurred, Cassie went around and caught the attention of a handful of girls who'd been robbed, and quietly explained herself to them. Her case proven, she gained a compatriot for the coming confrontation. When She had a good half-dozen or so, she made her way down to the skate park, where her quarry lay.

"Xumtiil, I know it's you who's been thieving from everyone. You've always had a good alibi, what with putting on your little poetry performances, but you messed up: you're the only person who's been present for every single theft. You were the distraction while your friends picked pockets and locks to take what isn't yours."

Xumtiil stared, before eventually saying "...it's a fair cop."

*Xumtiil* was killed. They were *The Delinquent Girl*.




> You are the Delinquent Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> You've Got Moxxy: You're allowed to hang out with the tough girls today, but don't push it. Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.


*Episode 4-B Ends In ~24 Hours*

(Going forward, to keep things from slowing to a crawl, -A phases will also be 24 hours.)

----------


## bladescape

I think this proves I've got a good grasp on reading Xum lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I believe this makes Book Wombat confirmed wolf just purely off POE purposes.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a world where he isn't but...

----------


## Zelphas

Well. I should've shifted my vote. Sorry, Xumtiil.

----------


## JeenLeen

Anyone want to claim a Goth Girl who can talk with the deadchat?
More seriously, anybody want to claim to have set up the chat between me and Xumtiil?  Because I didn't, my network didn't, and she didn't.

For both, please wait until Day.

----------


## Batcathat

Hm. We're not doing great on the wolf-finding front, huh? Though with two nights with no wolf kill, at least they're not doing too hot either. I'm kind of happy there were two deaths N1 or I would've started to seriously suspect a cult game...

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Given there's been one less kill every night, I look forward to seeing who we get back in the morning.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Illven

> Given there's been one less kill every night, I look forward to seeing who we get back in the morning.


Oh my god, best bastard mechanic.  :Small Tongue: 

Wait unless we get Taff. Crap!  :Small Tongue:

----------


## JeenLeen

> Hm. We're not doing great on the wolf-finding front, huh? Though with two nights with no wolf kill, at least they're not doing too hot either. I'm kind of happy there were two deaths N1 or I would've started to seriously suspect a cult game...


After reading Taffimai's power, I _could_ read it as the players she picked _become_ wolves over time in the game.  Sorta like a "slow culting" over time... hmm... that could be a neat bastard mechanic for a future game, though not one I think I'd actually enjoy playing in.

However, AV confirmed privately with me that the chain of actions was that Taffimai first picked who the wolves were, then roles were assigned.
The exact phrasing makes me think that the wolf roles were separate from the town roles, that is, AV decided on what roles go with what alignment before game started.  Then the chosen wolves got wolf roles randomly assigned, then the townies got town roles randomly assigned.   But I can't say that interpretation is 100% accurate.

----------


## Batcathat

Time for another exciting round of "Batcathat thinks he's gonna die and this is all he has to say!?!"  :Small Tongue: 

*bladescape*: While I'm still paranoid about blade, now it feels like there's even more pointing towards him being town. Almost certainly unpaired from Murska, at least. Probably from BW, too.*Book Wombat*: Not a lot to go on, but I don't really like what there is (and I'm leaning towards agreeing with blade on the matter).*Cazero*: Still haven't contributed to a single mislynch, which is kind of impressive (or suspicious?) at this point. Other than that, I don't really know.*Illven*: If Jeen says Illven is town, I think I'll just trust it (if town can't trust Jeen, we've probably lost anyway).*Lady Serpentine*: I didn't really get anywhere on Ti in my last legacy and there haven't really been anything since to change that. Definitely a possible wolf but wouldn't be my first choice.*Let'sGetKraken*: Still very little to go on, but I still think Taff trying to create a Kraken wagon when the existing wagons were t/t makes Kraken an unlikely wolf (though possible SK).*Murska*: Probably my strongest wolfread (or tied with BW), especially since Jeen pointed out the thing I previously gave towncred for could be true even for a wolfy Murska.*Zelphas*: While I would've trusted Zelphas more if Xum had flipped wolf, I'm still leaning towards trusting the neutral claim. Whatever the alignment, I suspect the claim about voiding Xum is true, since it seems like a big and unnecessary thing to lie about (since if Xum had used some power, someone might've been able to verify it). I guess it could be a wolf play, where they genuinely void a townie to have an almost ironclad case for lynching someone in case their kill is blocked, but it doesn't feel that likely.

----------


## bladescape

If I remember correctly Xum confirmed being voided. Not that it confirms anything except Zelphas did void as he claimed.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

If Zelphas is wolf and a voider, it could certainly be a good opportunistic thing. It did catch a bit of attention, but nobody's seriously on him even so, so it's a plausible risk to take.

----------


## bladescape

> If Zelphas is wolf and a voider, it could certainly be a good opportunistic thing. It did catch a bit of attention, but nobody's seriously on him even so, so it's a plausible risk to take.


Zelphas being wolf would be interesting given how he was treated by Taffi.

----------


## Murska

Zelphas being a neutral but not Survivor seems more plausible to me than them being a wolf. Some flavour of SK or something more strange.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Episode 4-B Ends*

Cassie was hot on the trail of some dastardly villain who had been stealing underwear from around campus, when she ran into JeenLeen - literally! She collected herself and helps JeenLeen gather up her...luggage? Apparently, JeenLeen was gonna be moving away, seems they weren't cut out for college life. She wasn't very specific on the reasons she was leaving, but seemed to be in quite a hurry, so Cassie let her off with a hug and a promise to keep in touch. Back to the mystery!

After that encounter, it was relatively simple: they found a local literature nerd holed up in her dorm room with a collection of stolen frilly things. In retrospect, stealing from her dorm-mates to start out was probably not the best way to avoid getting caught.

*JeenLeen* was killed. They were *The Clumsy Girl*.




> You are the Clumsy Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.
> 
> Easily Forgiven: Hard to blame you when it's just bad luck and klutzing. At any single point during the game, you may request that the narrator publicly announce you as The Clumsy Girl, a confirmed member of town.


*Book Wombat* was killed. They were *The Pervert Girl*.




> You are the Pervert Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.
> 
> Blackmail Material: You collect naughty pics of your competitors out of habit, just in case they try to take you down. Each phase, select one player. If you die during that phase, that player also dies. You may not use this power on the same night you use Playing Cupid.
> 
> Playing Cupid: You have a knack for figuring out who's compatible with who, and setting them up to have a little private time together. Each night phase, select two players. At the end of the night phase, those players will be placed in a private chat. You may not use this power on the same night you use Blackmail Material.


*Episode 5-A Ends In ~24 Hours*

----------


## bladescape

I was right about BW, will be re-verifying how people treated it but I think we can probably narrow down scum from that.

Also I hope people can stop tinfoiling me now =P

----------


## Illven

Rules question Avatar vecna.

Were those kills in the correct order, or did Bookwombat pull Jeen with them?

----------


## AvatarVecna

> Rules question Avatar vecna.
> 
> Were those kills in the correct order, or did Bookwombat pull Jeen with them?


No comment.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Hm, interesting. My dramatic revelation is immediately undercut. 

So Cazero what did you do last night?

Blade, what about you?

----------


## bladescape

> Hm, interesting. My dramatic revelation is immediately undercut. 
> 
> So *Cazero*, what did you do last night?
> 
> Blade, what about you?


My action is secret because it's important.

What about you?

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> My action is secret because it's important.
> 
> What about you?


Clearly not important enough, if it didn't keep your target alive.

----------


## bladescape

> Clearly not important enough, if it didn't keep your target alive.


I can network people.

I have been growing Jeen's network since N1.

- - - Updated - - -

Which, btw, has already been said by Jeen in thread so lmao.

----------


## AvatarVecna

Living Players (updated):
Batcathat
bladescape
Cazero
Illven
Lady Serpentine
Let'sGetKraken
Murska
Zelphas

(Since it can be hard to keep track of such things sometimes.)

----------


## Illven

> Clearly not important enough, if it didn't keep your target alive.


How do you know what Blade's target is?  :Small Confused:

----------


## bladescape

I basically have the game solved now I know my BW sus was right btw. I just need to verify some stuff with some people first.

Kraken's results from every night would also be helpful.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> I can network people.
> 
> I have been growing Jeen's network since N1.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Which, btw, has already been said by Jeen in thread so lmao.


Look it's a long thread and I've been busy, okay.

Would very much like an answer from Cazero, though. We're down to two wolves and a possible serial killer (certainly a second killing role, though).

- - - Updated - - -




> I basically have the game solved now I know my BW sus was right btw. I just need to verify some stuff with some people first.
> 
> Kraken's results from every night would also be helpful.


Worth tipping my hat? There isn't much concrete there, I'll warn you. It's been less useful than it could have been.

----------


## bladescape

> How do you know what Blade's target is?


He's a town watcher.

He saw me visit Jeen last night along with Cazero and I'm guessing BW.

Previous night results would help solve the game tho.

- - - Updated - - -




> Worth tipping my hat? There isn't much concrete there, I'll warn you. It's been less useful than it could have been.


I mean.

Welcome to getting non-alignment investigative =P

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> He's a town watcher.
> 
> He saw me visit Jeen last night along with Cazero and I'm guessing BW.
> 
> Previous night results would help solve the game tho.


Correct. I expect I'll die for it, but here we go. 

_You are the Detective Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.

Case The Joint: Time for a stakeout! Each night, select one player. You learn the names of any players who target that player. You may not use this on the same night you use Enthusiastic Walk.

Enthusiastic Walk: It's not stalking, geez! Each night, select one player. You learn the names of any players they target. You may not use this on the same night you use Case The Joint._

N1: Murska targeted bladescape. 
N2: Taffimai targeted nobody. 
N3: JeenLeen was targeted by: bladescape, Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken, and [REDACTED]. 
N4: JeenLeen was targeted by: bladescape, Book Wombat, Cazero, Let'sGetKraken

That's what I've got.

- - - Updated - - -

I know it's a strong powerset, I'm sorry I haven't been more active. Been doing my best to gather useful information regardless. Pretty confident Book was killed by someone else , which killed Jeen.

----------


## bladescape

Wait.

Murska targetted me N1?

----------


## Illven

Whose redacted?

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Whose redacted?


Bladescape should be aware, if they were talking with Jeen. Doesn't help narrow down suspects. 

And yes, Murska did. I targeted them, not you, so I don't know who else visited you, if anyone.

----------


## bladescape

> Bladescape should be aware, if they were talking with Jeen. Doesn't help narrow down suspects. 
> 
> And yes, Murska did. I targeted them, not you, so I don't know who else visited you, if anyone.


I have proven to network with Jeen N1.

What was Murska's claim again? Straight voider?

Lemme go check.

- - - Updated - - -




> I can help with info today! Sorry I'm here so late, had a couple back-to-back full-day events.
> 
> So I'm the _Nurse Girl_. My power is to give someone a Checkup, letting me keep them in bed for a time. _Each night, select one player. That player cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones._
> 
> The first night, I checked up on BatCatHat. No feedback. The second night, I went hunting for a possible Serial Killer, and hit Illven. However, the kill that was missing was probably the Wolf kill unless something strange like a Vortex was at play. I didn't want to bring it up early, since it'd stifle discussion. Then late in the day when I got back on, there was a very juicy competition between two wagons, one of which was one of my big wolf leans and a treasure trove of information besides. (One that I haven't had time to dig into yet unfortunately.) I felt that if I'd muddle the waters with my claim that late in the day, the most likely end result would've been that the wolves dilute the vote and manage to get 3SC off the hook - apologies on that one, I was super wrong. I just don't understand why they didn't claim earlier.
> 
> I went into night 3 with the thought that if Illven was a wolf kill, then probably someone else would be carrying that but in the end since I was busy I went with *Illven* again since at least if they're a wolf they'd probably have some kind of power. And today, there are no kills at all.


Kraken and Murska's claims contradict each other.

- - - Updated - - -

*Murska*

I did find it odd that your information didn't match what I got from the clear but good to know it's cause you were a wolf.

- - - Updated - - -

Lady Serpentine is probably the other wolf.

Cazero I have reason to believe is not a wolf.

But I would also like to see Cazero's.

----------


## Illven

*Murska*

I also believe Ti is a wolf, due to the relative silence after convincing us off a wolf and onto a townie.

----------


## Zelphas

Working off of what I can understand of things (which isn't much), *Murska* is one of those that I was suspicious of, so I'm willing to place a vote there.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

*Murska*. Good catch, that is damning, should have brought it forward sooner.

- - - Updated - - -

Only other explanation would be the bastard mechanic. But if you successfully put people in a chat D1... well.

----------


## bladescape

> *Murska*. Good catch, that is damning, should have brought it forward sooner.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Only other explanation would be the bastard mechanic. But if you successfully put people in a chat D1... well.


Should I go quote the Jeen post where he said I connected a chat to him N1?

- - - Updated - - -

Also wouldn't Town!Murska have said that instead of claiming to hit BCH?

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Also, Blade, you do know what I'm talking about with the redacted? Don't reveal it but we are on the same page in not revealing that? Unless Jeen played things really close to the chest.

- - - Updated - - -




> Should I go quote the Jeen post where he said I connected a chat to him N1?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Also wouldn't Town!Murska have said that instead of claiming to hit BCH?


No I believe you, I'm saying that it could be the bastard mechanic but that's pretty damning.

- - - Updated - - -

No, bastard mechanic couldn't be randomized targeting. So yeah. Seems like a pretty obvious lie.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

I don't recall an instance of convincing anyone off a wolf and onto a townie. 

I did kick stuff off on 3SC... Who was incredibly suspicious at the time. And I voted Xumtiil well after the wagon was already established... Who was, supposedly, voided on the night that there was no kill, making them an extremely plausible wolf or serial killer. 

Can you explain what time you're talking about, Illven?

----------


## bladescape

> Also, Blade, you do know what I'm talking about with the redacted? Don't reveal it but we are on the same page in not revealing that? Unless Jeen played things really close to the chest.


I have a guess based on info and discussions.

I do not know for sure. Jeen didn't give me explicit info.

- - - Updated - - -

Today should always be Murska/Kraken.

The info on the table _guarantees_ one is lying.

I think Taffi treatment of Kraken suggests Murska is the wolf, especially when Murska tipped the wagons from 5/5 to 5/6 when BW was up for vote to get 3SC out.

- - - Updated - - -

That being said, well played Murska.

You legit had me unsure/townreading you a lot of early game. I forgot you're a wily bastard.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> I have a guess based on info and discussions.
> 
> I do not know for sure. Jeen didn't give me explicit info.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Today should always be Murska/Kraken.
> 
> The info on the table _guarantees_ one is lying.
> ...


Also, if I'm lying, how would I know that you targeted Jeen last night, and that Cazero did the same?

----------


## bladescape

> Also, if I'm lying, how would I know that you targeted Jeen last night, and that Cazero did the same?


I don't think you are, but the possibility is there =P

You could have a watcher power but been pretending to not notice how you contridicted Murska's claimed state.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

Not that I consider it high probability, but JeenLeen is a centralizing figure and Blade is known to have been networking for him. If you had to guess, it'd be the best one.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

True. But a watcher power on a wolf would feel strange, since they don't really need information-gathering roles so much.

----------


## Illven

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=245

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=247

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=249


We had the makings of a wagon started on a now revealed wolf.


https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=255

Then you posted.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Not that I consider it high probability, but JeenLeen is a centralizing figure and Blade is known to have been networking for him. If you had to guess, it'd be the best one.


That's a bold lie, though. If Blade had done something else either night, or had any information from Jeen that conflicted it, the game would be up. Only world that makes sense is if Blade and I are both wolves. 

I wonder if it's worth giving wolves information, if it helps potentially uncover the bastard mechanic?

- - - Updated - - -

Batcathat (confirmed town by scry)
bladescape (would be one hell of a wolf, 98% town)
Cazero (????, visiting power)
Illven (????)
Lady Serpentine (potential fourth wolf?)
Let'sGetKraken (Detective girl)
Murska (third wolf)
Zelphas (survivor or maybe benign SK?)

I feel like, in the position we're in, it's a good idea for Cazero, Ilven, and Serpentine to claim, unless their powers are so critical that it's worth their continued silence.

Edit: unless they did already and I've just missed it due to IRL stuff.

----------


## Illven

> Illven (????).


Remember, Jeen confirmed me town.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Remember, Jeen confirmed me town.


I am deeply curious as to how that would have worked. Blade might know more. You're bumped up to "probably town", then.  So it's between Cazero and Ti for the last wolf. Cazero should be VERY interested in claiming, I suspect.

----------


## bladescape

Illven is confirmed town.

It is impossible without bastard mech for illven to be wolf here.

- - - Updated - - -

I also do not want Illven to claim.

----------


## Illven

My thought process is that, I don't think Cazero is the wolf either.

Either Book ate Jeen, or Book took Jeen with him. Therefore if Cazero is the wolf, what possible purpose could he have in targeting someone who should be dead today.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Illven is confirmed town.
> 
> It is impossible without bastard mech for illven to be wolf here.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I also do not want Illven to claim.


Well, it's impossible for the three of you to be wolves, barring bastardry by AV, so I will trust this for now.

----------


## Batcathat

Cool, it seems I was mostly right (Wait, what is it that goeth before the fall, again?). *Murska* it is.

I should be pretty busy today, so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to post, but it should improve for the later half of the day.

----------


## Illven

@Kraken.

Cazero did actually claim a role. Sportsgirl.

They also said one guess at what I do. Which suggests to me chat creation, but doesn't actually say that.

----------


## Cazero

Can confirm I targeted Jeen with a chat creation power this night. Didn't share this info with anyone. Kraken defo has watcher powers.

Also, I'll ride the train and blame y'all if it's wrong. *Murska*.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty confident from those watcher results BW has been repeatedly targeting Jeenleen to take them out with them.

- - - Updated - - -

Also the narration screams blackmail to me.

----------


## Murska

Well that's quite the mislynch train. I think what's happening here is that it's 4 town to 2 wolves to 2 neutrals, and the wolves have made contact with the serial killer and intend to win today.

As for Kraken's claim, which happily comes too late to give any useful information despite them _having_ useful information for several days now, and also just after JL dies so that they can't contradict anything that's being said. Let's look at the mechanics of this game.

Thus far, we've seen:
*Town*
Innocent Child
Seer
Fool
Voider
Pair of Masons/Lovers (only way to mech-clear Illven - I'm guessing it's with BCH given what's been said in the thread)
Vigilante?

*Wolf*
Alpha
Beast
Voider?

*Neutral?*
Survivor/Voider?
SK?

Okay, so now we get a Watcher claim. Basically a Seer role, in a 17 player game, with 6-7 town PRs thus far, plus the ability for each VT to network. That sounds kind of strange, no? Especially in what's meant to be a pretty vanilla game. Also, what are the town and survivor voids supposed to be targeting with this listing of powers? The Alpha doesn't do anything, the Beast mostly works at day and my power specifically states night phase.

No, what we're missing is not another town investigation role. We're missing a *Devil*. Which is what *Let'sGetKraken* is. I'm guessing bladescape is the other one, and this is a well-coreographed LyLo play from them. It also explains why blade went after Book Wombat - obviously the wolves wanted the Beast dead as early as possible to get rid of JeenLeen.

----------


## bladescape

The issue with your claim there is:

1. Other people in the mech clear set have known all the info, I have said nothing that wasn't already something people were aware of.

2. Kraken also pinpoints Cezaro's actions, only possible if he actually was a Watcher. A Devil is not a Watcher.

3. Why would I put BW so squarely in the spotlight when you saved BW on D3 when he nearly flipped then.

- - - Updated - - -

Though I will agree town appears overloaded on abilities.

I think that's more on AV tho  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Illven

Care to share what you did last night?

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Well that's quite the mislynch train. I think what's happening here is that it's 4 town to 2 wolves to 2 neutrals, and the wolves have made contact with the serial killer and intend to win today.
> 
> As for Kraken's claim, which happily comes too late to give any useful information despite them _having_ useful information for several days now, and also just after JL dies so that they can't contradict anything that's being said. Let's look at the mechanics of this game.
> 
> Thus far, we've seen:
> *Town*
> Innocent Child
> Seer
> Fool
> ...


So this is a solid attempt when backed into a corner... but it's just not plausible. Putting everything else aside... why would wolves just not attack JeenLeen? If the wolves and spooky evil neutrals were collaborating, why would they have intentionally sacrificed a wolf instead of just... having a majority today?

I am sympathetic, Murska. Either you're a very caught wolf, or you're a victim of the bastard mechanic, which would be frustrating either way. But there's no way you're talking yourself out of this one.

----------


## Murska

I voided Book Wombat.

As for why the wolves did not attack JL, I do not know - there has been *no wolf kill since the first night*, this game. Presumably mine and Zelphas's voids have been hitting well?




> The issue with your claim there is:
> 
> 1. Other people in the mech clear set have known all the info, I have said nothing that wasn't already something people were aware of.
> 
> 2. Kraken also pinpoints Cezaro's actions, only possible if he actually was a Watcher. A Devil is not a Watcher.
> 
> 3. Why would I put BW so squarely in the spotlight when you saved BW on D3 when he nearly flipped then.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


1: So you say. I haven't seen BCH or Illven, the only mech-clear ones in the game, confirm that Cazero definitely targeted JL tonight - I don't know how they would even know. And that's the only point where you'd have to lie.

2: See above. Cazero might well be the missing third, for all I know?

3: What? You'd put BW squarely in the spotlight because you want them dead, like I said. There's no reason wolves would try to save a Beast. It must've been strange to see the Town resolutely avoid the bus though.

----------


## bladescape

> *I voided Book Wombat.*
> 
> As for why the wolves did not attack JL, I do not know - there has been *no wolf kill since the first night*, this game. Presumably mine and Zelphas's voids have been hitting well?


So you're saying that... wolves killed Jeen, who BW was targeting with his power?

- - - Updated - - -

If Murska actually voided BW then the kill/combo ability would be voided which would make Jeen's death caused by wolf kill or a THIRD kill source.

----------


## Illven

Why wouldn't wolves want to save a "beast"

----------


## Murska

I do not know what happened with the kills. I used my ability on BW - whether it went through or not, what the wolves did, whether BW was targeting JeenLeen or someone else, I don't know. Maybe the wolves killed JL and had BW target BCH?

- - - Updated - - -




> Why wouldn't wolves want to save a "beast"


Because it's an extra kill to them, presumably unblockable if lynched, against a town network? Only reason they would save it is if the network is compromised somehow and they don't _want_ to kill into it.

----------


## bladescape

> I do not know what happened with the kills. I used my ability on BW - whether it went through or not, what the wolves did, whether BW was targeting JeenLeen or someone else, I don't know. Maybe the wolves killed JL and had BW target BCH?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's an extra kill to them, presumably unblockable if lynched, against a town network? Only reason they would save it is if the network is compromised somehow and they don't _want_ to kill into it.


If I'm wolf then the network was so compromised.

I literally knew who all the claimed PRs were.

Illven can even confirm that part at least.

----------


## Murska

> If I'm wolf then the network was so compromised.
> 
> I literally knew who all the claimed PRs were.
> 
> Illven can even confirm that part at least.


Who are they, then? Cazero and Kraken?

----------


## bladescape

> Who are they, then? Cazero and Kraken?


I too out my information to wolves in threads.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Well, I'm glad that this day is only 24 hours, I don't think much is going to change. I would like to see Ti claim, but I don't think it changes things, does it?

----------


## Murska

> I too out my information to wolves in threads.


? I asked you who you think the wolves are if it's not you.

- - - Updated - - -




> Well, I'm glad that this day is only 24 hours, I don't think much is going to change. I would like to see Ti claim, but I don't think it changes things, does it?


I mean, look at this? No townie would write something like this. "Oh I wish the ML goes through fast before people have time to reconsider."

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

When Murska flips wolf, it will 100% confirm Blade as town (I can't see bussing this ruthless at this stage of the game). BatCatHat is town. I'll be confirmed town. Illven is confirmed town. Zelphas is survivor (or a really nice SK). Leaves only Cazero and Ti, and of the two Ti is looking much sketchier here. Blade, you weren't kidding about this being solved.

Though of course, AV is doubtless laughing about what we're all missing. 

Blade, Illven, Bat - do you think guessing at the bastard mechanic is worth revealing a potential town ace up our sleeve? (Side note I am going to feel like an idiot if I missed a flip early that explains it - this has not been the most engaged game for me).

- - - Updated - - -




> ? I asked you who you think the wolves are if it's not you.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, look at this? No townie would write something like this. "Oh I wish the ML goes through fast before people have time to reconsider."


Like, what is there to reconsider. Unless Blade, Cazero and I are in some grand, evil alliance between a second, evil neutral and the two remaining wolves, you have been caught red-handed in a lie.

----------


## Murska

> Like, what is there to reconsider. Unless Blade, Cazero and I are in some grand, evil alliance between a second, evil neutral and the two remaining wolves, you have been caught red-handed in a lie.


I am not certain Blade needs to be in on it, but yes, that's what I'm saying. We know for a fact there are two wolves and one evil neutral left, and we know for a fact that if they manage a mislynch today they win the game. And today starts with a surprise accusation by a player who's thus far been suspected by everyone, claiming that they are a role that cannot be in the game, and that if it had been in the game would have claimed earlier. An accusation against me, whom the wolves know isn't part of the network but is widely townread because I haven't done anything wolfy this entire game, because the wolves can't risk accusing someone who secretly _is_ part of the network. You do the math.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

So, I don't think I agree with *Murska*, but he does raise a good point about "Where the heck is the second kill from in this scenario?"

Batcathat and Illven are mechanically confirmed to be town, according to JeenLeen, who was mechanically confirmed to be town, and our seer, who was mechanically confirmed to be the town seer. Bladescape is believed to be town by all of the currently living confirmed townies. 

Under this set of assumptions, Kraken and Cazero must be town too, because Kraken is Watcher and for Cazero's evidence to be trustworthy, Cazero is too.  

Zelphas has claimed survivor and is currently believed. 

We can rule out Batcathat being a vigilante because they would have claimed to the network and someone would have come forward with that information. Presumably, so would Illven if she was the vigilante. 

Cazero is claiming to have made a chat, meaning he's not a town power role. Same for blade. Also, if Kraken is a watcher, Cazero being a vigilante would require he shot the _innocent child_ after managing to sniff out two wolves. 

Somehow I suspect that town!Cazero did not do this thing. 

And Zelphas's voider claim would have been frankly unhinged from a (non-voider) townie. 

So _something_ is fishy here.

----------


## Illven

> I am not certain Blade needs to be in on it, but yes, that's what I'm saying. We know for a fact there are two wolves and one evil neutral left, and we know for a fact that if they manage a mislynch today they win the game. And today starts with a surprise accusation by a player who's thus far been suspected by everyone, claiming that they are a role that cannot be in the game, and that if it had been in the game would have claimed earlier. An accusation against me, whom the wolves know isn't part of the network but is widely townread because I haven't done anything wolfy this entire game, because the wolves can't risk accusing someone who secretly _is_ part of the network. You do the math.


But if they are part of some grand evil alliance, why serial kill a wolf?

- - - Updated - - -




> Cazero is claiming to have made a chat, meaning he's not a town power role. Same for blade. Also, if Kraken is a watcher, Cazero being a vigilante would require he shot the _innocent child_ after managing to sniff out two wolves.


If Kraken is watcher, then Cazero simply couldn't be a vig or sk. Cause then who killed Bookwombat?

----------


## Murska

> But if they are part of some grand evil alliance, why serial kill a wolf?


Presumably they weren't in contact before tonight?

----------


## Illven

> Presumably they weren't in contact before tonight?


So argument is they engaged in some grand conspiracy in 2~ hours.

----------


## Murska

> So argument is they engaged in some grand conspiracy in 2~ hours.


Precisely. "Hey, we're both going to get lynched by the town network. How about we push a ML today and then we have lynch control?" "Sure."

- - - Updated - - -

This also proves I can't be a wolf, because I wasn't online during that time.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> I am not certain Blade needs to be in on it, but yes, that's what I'm saying. We know for a fact there are two wolves and one evil neutral left, and we know for a fact that if they manage a mislynch today they win the game. And today starts with a surprise accusation by a player who's thus far been suspected by everyone, claiming that they are a role that cannot be in the game, and that if it had been in the game would have claimed earlier. An accusation against me, whom the wolves know isn't part of the network but is widely townread because I haven't done anything wolfy this entire game, because the wolves can't risk accusing someone who secretly _is_ part of the network. You do the math.


1) I didn't claim because I would have been immediately killed if I did, because it's a strong information-gathering role that can't protect itself. Especially since me being a watcher/lookout means that it's improbable that there is someone else to watch me and expose wolves in doing so. I should have revealed earlier, but I missed the discrepancy between your claim and actual targeting due to IRL business.

2)  We don't know that there is one evil neutral left. What are you basing this on? There are other plausible explanations for the single time we had a double-kill. 

3) I have not been suspected by everyone - Taffimai, a confirmed wolf, tried to start a wagon on me D2. That's pretty much been the extent of the suspicion. Hell, Blade only got aggressive towards me after I prodded him for a role based on my results. 

4) "Cannot be in the game" is a WILD claim and incorrect. 

5) How would wolves not know you were in the network? Again, this seems like a huge risk to take.

- - - Updated - - -




> Precisely. "Hey, we're both going to get lynched by the town network. How about we push a ML today and then we have lynch control?" "Sure."
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> This also proves I can't be a wolf, because I wasn't online during that time.


WHAT. 

"In this hypothetical, impromptu, incredibly-hasty conspiracy I have concocted to prove my innocence, I couldn't have been a part of this same conspiracy that proves my innocence! Take that, I am irrefutably not a wolf!"

----------


## Lady Serpentine

> If Kraken is watcher, then Cazero simply couldn't be a vig or sk. Cause then who killed Bookwombat?


Also a good way of ruling him out. So, since we _did_ have two kills on the same night at one point, and I doubt wolves shot their own alpha, where did the second one come from, in this scenario?

----------


## Illven

Wait, are you saying you can't have been a wolf because you weren't online at a specific time?  :Small Confused: 

The only way that would work, is if we had one wolf remaining, you were gone for the whole day, and we still had a kill. Not that that couldn't be a vig or SK but that would at least be evidence.

Not. I wasn't on for a total of 2 hours.



@Kraken. I'm not sure there's an _evil_ neutral. But there has to be someone that killed the two wolves.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

> 3) I have not been suspected by everyone - Taffimai, a confirmed wolf, tried to start a wagon on me D2. That's pretty much been the extent of the suspicion. Hell, Blade only got aggressive towards me after I prodded him for a role based on my results.


In the interests of accuracy I feel the need to note that I also called you out for going "Wow, this dude is suspicious! But I'm gonna vote on his recommendation.", although I didn't push it much thereafter.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> In the interests of accuracy I feel the need to note that I also called you out for going "Wow, this dude is suspicious! But I'm gonna vote on his recommendation.", although I didn't push it much thereafter.


Ah yeah, that's fair. But it's hardly what Murska is claiming. 

I think the answer is that either Zelphas has the ability to kill, or we have a Vig, or we have some bastardry going on. 

Also, I think I understand how Illven was mechanically cleared? Either that or I am very lost.

----------


## Lady Serpentine

I've considered Zelphas but I just don't see the motive for the claim that killed Xumtiil. 


As for Illven, since you didn't clear her, the only way to clear her I can see is what Murska proposed. Or Blade is another seer.  :Small Tongue:

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Okay so I have gone back and confirmed that nothing that has happened so far this game would explain it, so at the very least I have knowledge of either the bastard mechanic, an ability a player as that was not disclosed, or AV being a tricky bastard with wording. 

To the people who are (probably) not wolves - is it worth revealing this if it helps us figure out what's going on, since the wolves would also have the information?

----------


## Batcathat

Lots of talking, not much to change my mind or my vote.




> To the people who are (probably) not wolves - is it worth revealing this if it helps us figure out what's going on, since the wolves would also have the information?


Since we know who we're lynching anyway, I think it's probably best to wait (though probably not later than sometime in the night, in case you don't survive).

----------


## Cazero

Anyone else had te distinct feeling that Illven got pocketed by bladescape the whole game?

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

> Anyone else had te distinct feeling that Illven got pocketed by bladescape the whole game?


For this to be the case, Blade would have to be a wolf. This means that he would have spent all game networking town members, and just exposed Murska as a fellow wolf for no reason other than to confirm himself as town. It's possible, he's the calibre of player that would do it, but it's very unlikely. 

And if Blade and I are wolves and making it up about Murska, then how do you explain me knowing you targeted Jeen last night, Cazero? A watcher-like powerset would be almost useless on a wolf. 

No, it's possible Blade and Jeen are wrong about Illven, but I don't see this being a pocket. Other than BatCatHat, who was cleared by a seer, he's the most cleared in my mind.

----------


## AvatarVecna

*Game Over*

With the remaining girls presenting a united front, the conspiracy to cut down the competition was on its last legs. The two acknowledged the futility of continuing and split apart, vowing to return to earn Cassie's heart once everyone has forgotten about the time they tried to ruin everything to get her for themselves.

Scum team has surrendered, game is over. Public Channels and Chat Channels will be made public shortly.

*Spoiler: Roles*
Show

3SecondCultist

You are the Geek Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you've seen this in a movie before! Each night, select one player. You learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Aleph Null

You are the Otaku Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

Wrong Genre Savvy: You're pretty sure you saw this in a movie once! You are told you are the Geek Girl. Each night, select one player. You do not learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, or mechanical powers (your choice), but instead learn that information for one random girl. You are told that information as if it is true for the girl you targeted.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Batcathat

You are the Childhood Friend Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.

Best Friends Forever: The two of you grew up practically as sisters, and maybe became more than friends later on. You start the game in contact with each other.

I've Got Your Back: You can always count on me! Each night, select one player. That player cannot be affected by other powers tonight. You may not use this power on the same night your partner does.

----------------------------------------------------------------
bladescape

You are the Classy Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

School Queen: Everybody wants to be your friend and confidant, even if just for a moment. Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Book Wombat

You are the Pervert Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.

Blackmail Material: You collect naughty pics of your competitors out of habit, just in case they try to take you down. Each phase, select one player. If you die during that phase, that player also dies. You may not use this power on the same night you use Playing Cupid.

Playing Cupid: You have a knack for figuring out who's compatible with who, and setting them up to have a little private time together. Each night phase, select two players. At the end of the night phase, those players will be placed in a private chat. You may not use this power on the same night you use Blackmail Material.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Cazero

You are the Sporty Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

The Big Game: Everyone's gonna be there! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Illven

You are the Childhood Friend Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.

Best Friends Forever: The two of you grew up practically as sisters, and maybe became more than friends later on. You start the game in contact with each other.

I've Got Your Back: You can always count on me! Each night, select one player. That player cannot be affected by other powers tonight. You may not use this power on the same night your partner does.

----------------------------------------------------------------
JeenLeen

You are the Clumsy Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

Easily Forgiven: Hard to blame you when it's just bad luck and klutzing. At any single point during the game, you may request that the narrator publicly announce you as The Clumsy Girl, a confirmed member of town.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Lady Serpentine

You are the Iinchou Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.

Hall Monitor: You take your duties very seriously, making sure there's no rule breakers on the prowl. Each night phase, select one player. Their power fails to work tonight. You may not use this power on the same night you use Teacher's Aide.

Teacher's Aide: You're frequently called upon to play tutor, or to refer students to another tutor if you can't help. Each night phase, select two players. At the end of the night phase, those players will be placed in a private chat. You may not use this power on the same night you use Hall Monitor.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Let'sGetKraken

You are the Detective Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.

Case The Joint: Time for a stakeout! Each night, select one player. You learn the names of any players who target that player. You may not use this on the same night you use Enthusiastic Walk.

Enthusiastic Walk: It's not stalking, geez! Each night, select one player. You learn the names of any players they target. You may not use this on the same night you use Case The Joint.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Murska

You are the Nurse Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.

Checkup: At any time, you can call in one of the other girl's for a medical checkup, letting you get a better handle on them. Each night, select one player. You learn their role name, alignment, fluff text, and mechanical powers. You may not use this power on the same night you use Waiting Room.

Waiting Room: You're so busy that sometimes the girls you call for a checkup will just have to wait outside for a few minutes. Each night phase, select two players. At the end of the night phase, those players will be placed in a private chat. You may not use this power on the same night you use Checkup.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Persolus

You are the Sorority Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

Party Time: It's gonna be the best party every, and everyone's invited! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Snowblaze

You are the Theatre Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

My Big Break: You've just gotta support me on this, pretty please! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Taffimai

You are the Werewolf Girl, scum. You win when your team can no longer be outvoted.

The Nose Knows: Your keen sense of smell can sniff out co-conspirators. At the start of the game, choose three players. They will become members of scumteam, with randomly assigned roles.

Of Course I'm A Wolf: You can't just go around accusing whoever you want of being a wolf, Cassie. If your alignment would be scried, you detect as a member of the town.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Xihirli

You are the Escort Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam are eliminated.

Spend The Night: Lil too raunchy for public television! Each night, select one player. They cannot be targeted by any power except this one tonight, but also they cannot use any powers tonight. This does not affect passive abilities, only active ones.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Xumtiil

You are the Delinquent Girl, town. You win when all members of scumteam have been eliminated.

You've Got Moxxy: You're allowed to hang out with the tough girls today, but don't push it. Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, they will be placed in a private chat together.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Zelphas

You are the Teacher Girl, neutral. You win if you're still in the game by the time it ends.

Fun Police: It's your job to keep things focused on schoolwork. Each night, select one player. That player cannot use any powers tonight. This only affects active powers, not passive ones. You may not use this the same night you use Tutoring.

Tutoring: You know just who can help that student with this issue! Each night, select two players. At the end of the night phase, those two players are placed in a private chat. You may not use this the same night you use Fun Police.

----------


## JeenLeen

Game over.  Cool.

When y'all have time to see the Deadchat and discover the bastard mechanic, things will make a ton more sense.  We of the dead likely would have killed Lady Serpentine during the Night if the game had lasted that long.

"Goth Girl" thing was completely made up based on nothing.   Sorry for the confusion, Kraken, but what you posted would have helped us some with the Night decision.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I accidentally leaked to bladescape that Illven was a mason.  He might've reached that decision on his own anyhow, but I posted something in his Channel I meant to post in hers.

----------


## Let'sGetKraken

Yeah, I knew that the dead chat had some active abilitity, since they targeted Jeen N3. 

Wolves had really bad luck and an uphill battle and still had a really strong showing. Good game and well played.

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## Batcathat

Good game, everyone. Special thanks to AV for narrating and Illven for being my first ever mason buddy (I think?), I kind of wish I'd been better at explaining things to a new player but at least it worked out in the end.  :Small Smile:

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## Murska

There were _so many town PRs_.  :Small Eek:

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## Taffimai

Thanks for the game everybody (especially to my fantastic team that almost carried!) ❤️

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## Xihirli

Good game all!
Who wants to join a new one with a few similarities?

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## Snowblaze

Thanks for dragging my disengaged corpse to victory, everyone. Eh, I'll take voting for the Wombat kill as not-a-total-failure. 

Do feel kind of bad for wolves given they played well but still got screwed over by too-many-mechanical-clears. 

Should actually be able to pay attention and do stuff next game, at least.

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