# Forum > Comics > The Order of the Stick >  OOTS #1271 - The Discussion Thread

## The Giant

New comic is up.

Also, I may start a separate thread about this later, but Ookoodook is having a Black Friday sale on OOTS books, 25% off regular copies and 75% off scratch-and-dent/"as-is" copies, which we have too many of right now after some issues in the warehouse over the summer.

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## Going Hereward

_That's how PC's get killed, Roy._

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## Hardcore

Following RB on twitter is a good way to know when a new comic is up.

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## Peelee

We've had one, yes, but what about second nap?

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## Resileaf

Poor Roy. So excited to make plans for the final battle, but the group keeps getting distracted and just called for a snack break so he has to wait while the other players make popcorn and drinks.

Edit: And Minrah continues to be a joy to read  :Small Big Grin:  Love her enthusiasm.

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## hamishspence

Great punchline from Elan.

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## Fyraltari

I'm starting to wonder if Serini isn't still trying to stall them.

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## TerrickTerran

Elan being surprisingly savvy there.

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## enq

> We've had one, yes, but what about second nap?


Well played!

*Spoiler: Just to keep the image from making the page needlessly long. It's a Pippin meme*
Show




For Serini it's bed and bed and breakfast.

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## link3710

> Well played!
> 
> *Spoiler: Just to keep the image from making the page needlessly long. It's a Pippin meme*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For Serini it's bed and bed and breakfast.


What do you want from her. She's old!

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## BriarHobbit

Roy is about to find that he does not have an easy way to return or let others know that he has found something interesting.  Not all of Serini's friends will know about the new alliance.  They could easily perceive Roy as a wandering adventurer.

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## Edward15

This seems like an opportunity for a visit from Roy's old man.

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## Crusher

How does Roy not know better than to split the...

Oh, right, he was dead for that part.

Edit - Ooops, quoted wrong person.




> I'm starting to wonder if Serini isn't still trying to stall them.


Would make sense. I mean, wasn't that her whole plan during the fight (after it was clear the ambush wasn't working) as well as the discussion afterwards? We never figured out what she was stalling for, did we? Other than, perhaps, "If you stall long enough, maybe something random will happen you can take advantage of to turn the tables."

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## Metastachydium

> How does Roy not know better than to split the...
> 
> Oh, right, he was dead for that part, wasn't he?


That's no excuse; being dead let him experience the consequences suffered by pretty much all of those involved firsthand!

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## Reboot

Roy, when even the paladins agree it's time for a break, it's time for a break. Sulking about it won't help anything.

Also, Belkar saying the quiet part aloud re: other halflings vs non-halflings again

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## Slaine

Firstly what is Elan holding?  I thought it was a bowl, maybe a glass bowl as apparently it's see through based on the last panel.

And secondly it feels like the whole story has completely stalled.  It's another holding comic while the Giant figures out what's going on, at least that's how it feels to me.  I'm sure the long term plan is there and some of the big things that will happen on the way are there but boy is it taking a while to do anything.

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## Resileaf

> This seems like an opportunity for a visit from Roy's old man.


Oh yeah, this is probably a set-up to have Julia or Eugene show up to comment the current events.

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## bunsen_h

> Well played!
> 
> *Spoiler: Just to keep the image from making the page needlessly long. It's a Pippin meme*
> Show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For Serini it's bed and bed and breakfast.


The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless _every_ meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast".  And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses".  Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.




> Firstly what is Elan holding?  I thought it was a bowl, maybe a glass bowl as apparently it's see through based on the last panel.


It's Haley's bow; see the previous page.

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## gatemansgc

> Elan being surprisingly savvy there.


i mean, it's kinda his thing! he's a bard!

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## Rinazina

> Firstly what is Elan holding?  I thought it was a bowl, maybe a glass bowl as apparently it's see through based on the last panel.


it is Sunny's anti-anti magic contact len




> And secondly it feels like the whole story has completely stalled.  It's another holding comic while the Giant figures out what's going on, at least that's how it feels to me.  I'm sure the long term plan is there and some of the big things that will happen on the way are there but boy is it taking a while to do anything.


nah, as first you should believe Giant knows what he's doing, as second, you need to put some slow pace in between epic duels

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## Crusher

> That's no excuse; being dead let him experience the consequences suffered by pretty much all of those involved firsthand!


Tragically, he didn't remember most of it, iirc.

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## Ron Miel

> Firstly what is Elan holding?  I thought it was a bowl, maybe a glass bowl as apparently it's see through based on the last panel.


I think it's a Frisbee. Or non-branded flying disc.    It's see-through? possibly a tiny art error. Even the Giant makes them occasionally.

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## Reboot

> Tragically, he didn't remember most of it, iirc.


He remembered everything bar what happened on Mount Celestia itself. So, everything he saw as a ghost on the material plane, plus the clouds.

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## hamishspence

> I think it's a Frisbee. Or non-branded flying disc.    It's see-through? possibly a tiny art error. Even the Giant makes them occasionally.


That's Sunny's lens - hence the eye being green again and the antimagic field cone being present again.

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## Ron Miel

REmind me, when was the lens mentioned before?

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## arimareiji

> Following RB on twitter is a good way to know when a new comic is up.


Thanks for the heads-up, given that the index seems likely to require a second reload in perpetuity... unfortunately for me, my Twitter feed tends to be crowded enough that I'd probably miss it.




> Also, Belkar saying the quiet part aloud re: other halflings vs non-halflings again


I'm reminded of the cook (Corporal Snark, which makes me wonder if that's where the word came from or vice versa) in Catch-22 who complains about having to cook for such Philistines, they would wolf down sweet potatoes laced with laundry soap.

(Which is true, but...)
*Spoiler: spoiler for Catch-22*
Show

it's because they want to be sick so they don't have to go on a bombing run that could get them killed, for no real purpose other than gratifying their CO's career-enhancing whims.

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## Metastachydium

> REmind me, when was the lens mentioned before?


Here you go.

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## hamishspence

> The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless _every_ meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast".  And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses".  Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.


Tolkien using "second breakfast":




> Up jumped Bilbo, and putting on his dressing-gown went into the dining-room. There he saw nobody, but all the signs of a large and hurried breakfast. There was a fearful mess in the room, and piles of unwashed crocks in the kitchen. Nearly every pot and pan he possessed seemed to have been used. The washing-up was so dismally real that Bilbo was forced to believe the party of the night before had not been part of his bad dreams, as he had rather hoped. Indeed he was really relieved after all to think that they had all gone without him, and without bothering to wake him up ("but with never a thank-you" he thought); and yet in a way he could not help feeling just a trifle disappointed. The feeling surprised him. 
> 
>   "Don't be a fool, Bilbo Baggins!" he said to himself, "thinking of dragons and all that outlandish nonsense at your age!" So he put on an apron, lit fires, boiled water, and washed up. Then he had a nice little breakfast in the kitchen before turning out the dining-room. By that time the sun was shining; and the front door was open, letting in a warm spring breeze. Bilbo began to whistle loudly and to forget about the night before. In fact he was just sitting down to a nice little second breakfast in the dining-room by the open window, when in walked Gandalf. "My dear fellow," said he, "whenever are you going to come? _What about an early start?_ - and here you are having breakfast, or whatever you call it, at half past ten! They left you the message, because they could not wait."


Hobbits sometimes have extra meals:



> They are inclined to be fat in the stomach; they dress in bright colours (chiefly green and yellow); wear no shoes, because their feet grow natural leathery soles and thick warm brown hair like the stuff on their heads (which is curly); have long clever brown fingers, good-natured faces, and laugh deep fruity laughs (especially after dinner, which they have twice a day when they can get it).

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## Fyraltari

> The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless _every_ meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast".  And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses".  Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.


Ahah, yes, imagine someone calling two different meals of the day variations on breakfast. Would would do that. So crazy.

Linguistics do not care for "making sense".

Also, Tolkien does mention all the meals you've listed un addition to second breakfast, despite qtating elsewhere that Hobbits have six meals a day. Either this is a little mistake or one of them is not considered a proper meal and more of a snack or something.

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## Starknight62040

Awesome. Thank you.

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## Sir_Norbert

Of course, the point of these strips is to heighten the tension and make us really looking forward to the coming confrontation.

And it's working.

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## Peelee

> The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless _every_ meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast".  And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses".  Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.


You sure about that?

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## Crusher

> He remembered everything bar what happened on Mount Celestia itself. So, everything he saw as a ghost on the material plane, plus the clouds.


Right, but he wasn't a ghost or on the clouds for very long. The ships had left dock but were still clearly in sight of the city immediately before his interview with the Deva started. I don't recall how the timeline worked out exactly but it probably wasn't more than a couple hours which is a very small slice of the months he spent dead. Ok, he did see half the party dealing incompetently with the Oracle but it probably wasn't for more than an hour (most of which was cleanup).

Eh, call it a draw.

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## Fyraltari

> Right, but he wasn't a ghost or on the clouds for very long. The ships had left dock but were still clearly in sight of the city immediately before his interview with the Deva started. I don't recall how the timeline worked out exactly but it probably wasn't more than a couple hours which is a very small slice of the months he spent dead. Ok, he did see half the party dealing incompetently with the Oracle but it probably wasn't for more than an hour (most of which was cleanup).
> 
> Eh, call it a draw.


He came back to the clouds to check on the party. Regularly.

A lot of Dstp is framed as Roy keeping tabs on what was going on in his absence.

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## hamishspence

Yup - he stays on the cloud but finds something to do (play games), between their getting hold of Celia, and their arrival at the oracle:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0565.html

then he leaves the cloud and trains with Horace for a few weeks between them leaving the Oracle, and them arriving at Greysky. 

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0600.html

And he's _prepared to_ remain on the cloud for a few months while they're in Greysky  (at the time, he expected them to have arrived at Cliffport) - they're not there that long, so he's still on the cloud when the message comes that he's about to be resurrected:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html

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## SirKazum

Hmm, so I see that order of ascetics from SS&DT (I unfortunately don't have the book with me right now to check their name) that refused food, drinks or any other comforts that provided no appreciable rules-based benefits didn't quite make an impression on the Order of the Stick.

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## hamishspence

Belkar does point out that he's not sure if the Dragon Strips are the same continuity:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html

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## brian 333

Okay, Elan forgot to say "Dun-dun, duunnn!" When Roy said he wanted to step out for fresh air.

Otherwise, great comic. Everyone except V and Durkon gets to show a bit of personality.

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## Psyren

> How does Roy not know better than to split the...
> 
> Oh, right, he was dead for that part.


He still got the message though, so it's still shortsighted for him to do so now.

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## Particle_Man

What does it say on the cauldron?

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## Guancyto

> I'm starting to wonder if Serini isn't still trying to stall them.


That's kinda my feeling too, honestly...

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## Mic_128

> What does it say on the cauldron?


"Never wash in the dishwasher or scrub it with a steel-wool soap pad."

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## Fyraltari

> What does it say on the cauldron?


It's a cypher. Someone broke it the first time we saw the cauldron, I think it was "cauldron of instant potion-making" or something along those lines.

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## alceryes

> Roy is about to find that he does not have an easy way to return or let others know that he has found something interesting.  Not all of Serini's friends will know about the new alliance.  They could easily perceive Roy as a wandering adventurer.


Roy can still communicate with Blackwing and Blackwing with everyone else. So we've got the potential for a nice game of telephone (with side commentary) here.

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## pearl jam

> Ahah, yes, imagine someone calling two different meals of the day variations on breakfast. Would would do that. So crazy.
> 
> Linguistics do not care for "making sense".
> 
> Also, Tolkien does mention all the meals you've listed un addition to second breakfast, despite qtating elsewhere that Hobbits have six meals a day. Either this is a little mistake or one of them is not considered a proper meal and more of a snack or something.


Or there are more than 6 established meals and it's just unusual for one to partake in all of them in the same day, much like eating breakfast, brunch and lunch in the same day is probably not the ordinary habit of most humans. 




> Thanks for the heads-up, given that the index seems likely to require a second reload in perpetuity... unfortunately for me, my Twitter feed tends to be crowded enough that I'd probably miss it.


If you click the bell on his profile page you'll get a notification when he tweets so that you can be sure to see it.

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## danielxcutter

Hmm.

I'm not sure if Serini is _specifically stalling for something,_ though I'm fairly sure she's stalling in general.

Granted, considering that she's scared of Xykon for somewhat understandable reasons I can totally see why she'd want to put that off. Would explain why she stopped struggling so easily.

Also even ignoring that I suspect she's used to being able to take her time, and being old probably doesn't help with _that_ either.

Since Sunny and Elan are back now maybe the "Serini was breaking the oath" thing might come up, especially with the paladins in the room. It's weird that Roy might be _outside_ the room for that, but I dunno. Maybe he's just trying to contact Eugene or something, and not just frustrated with Serini.

Do kinda want to jump to Serini telling them about the Scribblers though. Hopefully there's not too much until that part.

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## catagent101

For a minute there I thought that was Tarquin in the second panel.

"We're back!"

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## danielxcutter

Oh, and speaking of that, Elan and Sunny peeking through the hole like that is _adorable_.

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## pearl jam

> For a minute there I thought that was Tarquin in the second panel.
> 
> "We're back!"


Yeah, because of the desaturation Elan's hair looks much closer to Tarquin's. I had the same initial thought when I read the comic.

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## Alexandrite

> Of course, the point of these strips is to heighten the tension and make us really looking forward to the coming confrontation.
> 
> And it's working.


Fair, but Serini is probably the only character who isn't dead or Schrodinger's Dwarf to have insight on her team, and we haven't gotten too much of that so far either from her or the rest of the comic. The story can slow the pace to provide tension and still give the reader interesting things to think about.

If it turns out Serini is just stalling them though, then the way it's going makes perfect sense and I have no complaints at all.

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## Edric O

> I'm starting to wonder if Serini isn't still trying to stall them.


I'm gonna go with "Serini is _definitely_ stalling them."

In fact, call me paranoid, but I think her plan since she agreed to help them has been to get them to lower their guard. Roy is going to be the only one not immobilized in a few strips.

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## Squire Doodad

> I'm gonna go with "Serini is _definitely_ stalling them."
> 
> In fact, call me paranoid, but I think her plan since she agreed to help them has been to get them to lower their guard. Roy is going to be the only one not immobilized in a few strips.


You're paranoid.

To be honest, while Serini is definitely more here for herself than the rest of the cast, she's already seen that the party can dispatch her in this kind of scenario without much hassle, and Sunny will at most defend her nonviolently or even disable her harmlessly (levitation or slowness lasers). There's very, very low odds that it's worth attacking the party, and she is wildly outnumbered with none of her tricks already at play even if she assumes Sunny is on her side.
She may be stalling because it is psychologically difficult for her to accept that she's going to actually take on Xykon, indirectly or otherwise. She may be stalling because she needs some time to herself to think about whether to help them stock up and shoo them off, or actually go into the fray. She may be stalling because she's trying to think of a good excuse to stay home, and one that would stop Sunny from going along too. She may be stalling because she needs to rack her memory of where she put the super-secret rainy day stuff, or which marking she used for the dungeon corridor that has that Protean family roaming it who'd be up to helping with Xykon.
Or of course she may just be in need of a nap and she might as well do so while the soup's cooking and the adventurers plan instead of right before they set off.

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## danielxcutter

I think either not ready to fight Xykon or old make good enough sense really. Might be even a bit of both.

Also in hindsight Serini might not be that great at fighting any more. Sure she has more Sneak Attack dice than you can count on your fingers, but her Dex and Con are not going to be impressive with a -6 to each from age penalties(even if Str is irrelevant for a non-compound shortbow or hand crossbow). I dont think the party is going to think any less of her for that, at least.

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## Edric O

> She may be stalling because it is psychologically difficult for her to accept that she's going to actually take on Xykon, indirectly or otherwise. She may be stalling because she needs some time to herself to think about whether to help them stock up and shoo them off, or actually go into the fray. She may be stalling because she's trying to think of a good excuse to stay home, and one that would stop Sunny from going along too. She may be stalling because she needs to rack her memory of where she put the super-secret rainy day stuff, or which marking she used for the dungeon corridor that has that Protean family roaming it who'd be up to helping with Xykon.
> Or of course she may just be in need of a nap and she might as well do so while the soup's cooking and the adventurers plan instead of right before they set off.


All of those options make a lot more logical sense than what I suggested.

However, I humbly submit that what I suggested makes more _dramatic_ sense. We've had several strips now showing the main characters getting increasingly relaxed. This feels like a set-up for a sudden attack on them.

And I'm fairly certain that Team Evil isn't about to find and attack them just yet.

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## Aquillion

> Also in hindsight Serini might not be that great at fighting any more. Sure she has more Sneak Attack dice than you can count on your fingers, but her Dex and Con are not going to be impressive with a -6 to each from age penalties(even if Str is irrelevant for a non-compound shortbow or hand crossbow). I dont think the party is going to think any less of her for that, at least.


She has +3 Charisma, almost certainly maxed UMD, and a nearly unlimited budget for consumable items.  She'll be fine.

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## danielxcutter

Consumables are less effective at higher levels though.

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## Peelee

> her Dex and Con are not going to be impressive with a -6 to each from age penalties


I assume you mean "*as* impressive". 

Its like that old joke, what do they call the one who graduated bottom of their class in med school? "Doctor". Sure, everyone else did better, but that person still did all the work and graduated. And Serini is still an epic level rogue. With all that that implies.

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## Borris

Can someone explain the "grim resolve" reference? Is it a 5th edition thing?

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## Fyraltari

> Can someone explain the "grim resolve" reference? Is it a 5th edition thing?


Maybe. My read on it was that Lien is referencing how Paladins stereotypically act again as measured by an imaginary scale in order to jokingly point out that they still do need to eat and take care of themselves even if they act like they don't.

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## masamune1

Roy leaving for some "fresh air" strikes me as something that could go very badly.

Especially if his idea of "fresh air" is going outside for some actual fresh air, where he might run into the villains,  but even just staying in the caves might chance that or he might fail to get back or whatever.

He's getting impatient, so he's likely going to make a mess of things somehow.

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## Clistenes

Don't split the party, Roy!!!

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## brian 333

I don't think Serini's stalling. I think she's just not worried about Team Evil. The last she knew they were pointlessly grinding her dungeons to nowhere, and completely lacking the skills needed to discover her backstage area.

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## Rinazina

> Roy leaving for some "fresh air" strikes me as something that could go very badly.
> 
> Especially if his idea of "fresh air" is going outside for some actual fresh air, where he might run into the villains,


this is impossible (he can't disable the trap) and so dangerous that doesn't make sense.




> but even just staying in the caves might chance that or he might fail to get back or whatever.
> He's getting impatient, so he's likely going to make a mess of things somehow.


It might or might not be an hook to get abducted and/or to arrive last minutes and save the day. But this situation is quite stalled in cooking, napping and cracking jokes. Possible new focus might be...

to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?to the IFCC and their schemes?or is time for Julia to call back?.... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny  :Wink:

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## brian 333

> this is impossible (he can't disable the trap) and so dangerous that doesn't make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> It might or might not be an hook to get abducted and/or to arrive last minutes and save the day. But this situation is quite stalled in cooking, napping and cracking jokes. Possible new focus might be...
> 
> to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?to the IFCC and their schemes?or is time for Julia to call back?.... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny


I'll take #4 for $200, Alex.

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## bunsen_h

> I'm reminded of the cook (Corporal Snark, which makes me wonder if that's where the word came from or vice versa) in Catch-22 who complains about having to cook for such Philistines, they would wolf down sweet potatoes laced with laundry soap.


Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words.  Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.




> Tolkien using "second breakfast":
> 
> Hobbits sometimes have extra meals:


Huh.  I stand corrected.




> It's a cypher. Someone broke it the first time we saw the cauldron, I think it was "cauldron of instant potion-making" or something along those lines.


"Magic Instant Pot".




> Its like that old joke, what do they call the one who graduated bottom of their class in med school? "Doctor". Sure, everyone else did better, but that person still did all the work and graduated.


That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors.  We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.




> Roy leaving for some "fresh air" strikes me as something that could go very badly.
> 
> Especially if his idea of "fresh air" is going outside for some actual fresh air, where he might run into the villains,  but even just staying in the caves might chance that or he might fail to get back or whatever.
> 
> He's getting impatient, so he's likely going to make a mess of things somehow.


I find it hard to believe that he'd be so careless as to leave the "backstage area".  And so far, at least, the villains haven't shown any signs of finding that, though the Quinton and its helpers may well make a difference there.

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## Peelee

> That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors.  We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.


That's usually how I use it too, but I do like when it can be applied slightly differently.

Especially considering that grad school also churns out doctors.  :Small Wink:

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## faustin

For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.

By the way, should Durkon give Belkar T-Word Privileges?

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## Joebob

> For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.
> 
> By the way, should Durkon give Belkar T-Word Privileges?


Good Banjo no. Belkar's come a long way, but I still don't remotely trust him with that kind of power.

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## Raven777

> For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.


Roy and Redcloak could bond over their shared burden of being a protagonist or antagonist saddled with getting a team of quirky semi-competent allies to get _anything_ done.

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## danielxcutter

A moment like that Malack and V had ("Is yours always like this?" "Yes. Yours?" *sigh*) would be funny yeah.

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## JonahFalcon

Belkar's lying. He enjoys gourmet cooking as much as killing. Doesn't matter who the diners are.

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## danielxcutter

If this was that Star Trek wallpaper he'd be setting phasers to tsun.

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## bunsen_h

> That's usually how I use it too, but I do like when it can be applied slightly differently.
> 
> Especially considering that grad school also churns out doctors.


In my past lives in academia and tech support, I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent/stupid Ph.D.s as well.  :Small Yuk:

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## danielxcutter

My dad's a math professor. He says a professor's job is researching, teaching ability is secondary. Which is why some competent professors have crappy classes.

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## bunsen_h

> My dad's a math professor. He says a professor's job is researching, teaching ability is secondary. Which is why some competent professors have crappy classes.


I think that teaching is an important part of a prof's job.

But I'm talking about stuff like a chemistry Ph.D. who does things like mistaking titanium for tantalum, constantly screwing up her procedures in very basic ways but blaming the problems on the reagents being "impure", etc.

When I was doing all of the tech support for a suite of chemistry modelling software, I had one Ph.D. write directly to me (rather than the general "[email protected]$COMPANY" address) to ask how to get the software to do a particular kind of calculation.  I explained to him -- in technical detail -- why it was fundamentally impossible for that kind of software to do that calculation.

*Spoiler: Technical details for those who care: entropy calculations*
Show

Briefly: he wanted software that found static minimum energy states of compounds to calculate their intrinsic entropy.  The entropy of a structure is affected by a number of factors, including interactions with its environment, as well as the possibility of parts of it rotating, vibrating, and flexing.  The software did "molecular dynamics", which would allow the structure to do vibrations on a very localized scale, but wouldn't at all represent the internal motions on a larger scale.  Worse, the vibrations, rotations, etc. are governed by quantum mechanics, which the software completely didn't touch.

He then wrote to the "[email protected]$COMPANY" address, asking the same question.  I explained again, with a bit more detail.  With slightly simpler language, though if he had a Ph.D. (and/or knew enough to want that calculation done), he should have understood the first time.

Then he posted to the customer mailing list, asking the same question _again_.  Since I was the admin for that mailing list, I responded on the list.  "As I told you when you contacted me directly, and again when you asked via the support E-mail address, that _isn't possible_..."

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## arimareiji

> Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words.  Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.


Thank you much for the answer. (^_^)




> That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors.  We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.


Never going to forget the Alabama doc-in-a-box who I could hear telling the people next door to keep heat on a wound to "boil out the infection." I was much younger, and had come in with one foot inoperable (the muscle to lift it wasn't working, leaving it utterly limp), otherwise I might have made a run for it.

He insisted it had nothing to do with tweaking it while jogging before taking a nap, and seized on the word "sleep" in my description of what happened to declare it had fallen asleep (despite having none of the associated altered sensations, and having woken up over an hour ago) and it would wake up by itself. It gradually got better over weeks while I used crutches to avoid tripping over it, but I still can't lift it all the way (and it might've been worse, if I hadn't run into a sports therapist at the college gym a couple months later who diagnosed what happened and gave me exercises to strengthen it).

----------


## ratfox

> Ahah, yes, imagine someone calling two different meals of the day variations on breakfast. Who would do that. So crazy.


The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).

In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.

----------


## No good @ names

> I'm gonna go with "Serini is _definitely_ stalling them."
> 
> In fact, call me paranoid, but I think her plan since she agreed to help them has been to get them to lower their guard. Roy is going to be the only one not immobilized in a few strips.





> I don't think Serini's stalling. I think she's just not worried about Team Evil. The last she knew they were pointlessly grinding her dungeons to nowhere, and completely lacking the skills needed to discover her backstage area.


I don't think she thinks they're _pointlessly_ grinding, I got the sense that until the Order showed up, she thought the end result would be Xykon obtaining the Gate, even if it took them a long time to figure out the ruse (1254-1256). Rather she's arranged all the defences she can and knows that a direct confrontation with Xykon is not practical. The monsters Team Evil is killing presumably take time and work for her to replace (based on 1270), even if she's not emotionally attached to them like the backstage crew, Team Evil is still chipping away at defences she's unable to replace. I'm guessing the swap-overs were built with the assistance of the 3 friendly Scribblers and so what defences she's got already (not necessarily all _we've_ seen though) are all the the defences there is.  If the Order can stop Xykon she's now content to tag along and help for the best case scenario, but she also acceptting the fates she can't control, now including the Gods ending the World.

----------


## hamishspence

> Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words.  Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.


_Some_ snarks are extremely dangerous - and these are called Boojums. But the common snark _"does no manner of harm"_ and is harmless, besides maybe having a limited ability to bite (if feathered) or scratch (if whiskered).  :Small Amused: 

But anyone who's encountered a Boojum, will have _"softly and suddenly vanished away"_, and _"will never be heard from again."_

----------


## Breccia

That's a mighty big can of solvent. This must happen a lot.

----------


## bunsen_h

> The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).
> 
> In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.


It's arguably reasonable for _every_ meal to be considered the breaking of a fast, albeit of only a few hours.

----------


## Slaine

> it is Sunny's anti-anti magic contact len
> 
> nah, as first you should believe Giant knows what he's doing, as second, you need to put some slow pace in between epic duels


Ah, the lens!  I hadn't spotted that, thank you.

And I guess we'll see where it goes.  I trust the Giant obvs but it feels a bit ponderous at the moment.

----------


## Quizatzhaderac

I'm thinking Roy going to to get air is just going to lead to a private conversation. 

I also note that the paladins were incarcerated days ago, so they must be hungry indeed, unless they were fed and  memory wiped.

I'm also wondering how Serini doesn't "keep much food around", is there an Adli in the bugbear village?



> The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless _every_ meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast".  And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses".  Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.


"Second breakfast" is the right term *because* it is awkward. "Elevenses" doesn't work for a couple of reasons. The lesser reasons are that it's regional,  a newer word, and that it implies a light meal.

But the biggest problem it that the reader would know what it means and have a preconceived attitude about "elevenses". We're supposed to be in Aragon's perspective, not understanding that these hobbits typically eat six substantial meals a day, and possibly have to due to their non-human metabolism. The awkwardness of the term "second breakfast" implies Aragon/the reader lacks the word or idea involved. The initial description as just "breakfast" conveys the importance to the hobbits, they are not missing "elevenses" or "mid-morning snack"; Pippin feels the same way we would if going on a long march and the leader skipped breakfast.

----------


## Fyraltari

> The awkwardness of the term "second breakfast" implies Aragon/the reader lacks the word or idea involved. The initial description as just "breakfast" conveys the importance to the hobbits, they are not missing "elevenses" or "mid-morning snack"; Pippin feels the same way we would if going on a long march and the leader skipped breakfast.


Pippin and Aragorn are both speaking in their native tongue, Westron. If the Hobbits had a special term for second breakfast unique to the Shire and/or not properly translatable to English, it would have been left untranslated in the text like _mathom_ is.

----------


## PattThe

Time to solo the lich and DIE again!

----------


## brian 333

> Pippin and Aragorn are both speaking in their native tongue, Westron. If the Hobbits had a special term for second breakfast unique to the Shire and/or not properly translatable to English, it would have been left untranslated in the text like _mathom_ is.


Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.

Aragorn knew about second breakfast.

----------


## Mayrax

Hi All, 

"_... you're not the type of mimic to be a seat_"

Nice one :)

Mayrax

----------


## LtPowers

> Hi All, 
> 
> "_... you're not the type of mimic to be a seat_"
> 
> Nice one :)
> 
> Mayrax


I had a feeling that was an allusion to something, or perhaps a pun, but I don't recognize it.



This whole "let's eat lunch" thing feels like it would have been covered by a "we can just say we ate and we'll be fine" or "just mark off a ration and you're done eating" type of joke back in the early days of the strip.


Powers  &8^]

----------


## KorvinStarmast

> What do you want from her. She's old!


 And?  :Small Annoyed:  {Insert suitable impression of getoffamylawn here} 



> This seems like an opportunity for a visit from Roy's old man.


 That's where my thought went, or Julia. 



> And secondly it feels like the whole story has completely stalled.


 Yes, it does, but when it is presented in book form, this will probably flow pretty well. 



> Okay, Elan forgot to say "Dun-dun, duunnn!" When Roy said he wanted to step out for fresh air.


 Good point. 



> If it turns out Serini is just stalling them though, then the way it's going makes perfect sense and I have no complaints at all.


 I was hoping for a bit of Scribbler exposition, not Serini taking a second nap. Mind you, falling asleep in a meeting isn't 'good sleep' the way that a proper power nap is, and I know this from experience.  :Small Wink:  (On the other hand, falling asleep during a teleconference if you have the right kind of chair can be restful).  



> We've had several strips now showing the main characters getting increasingly relaxed. This feels like a set-up for a sudden attack on them.


 Or a message from out of area from Julia or Hinjo...



> Its like that old joke, what do they call the one who graduated bottom of their class in med school? "Doctor". Sure, everyone else did better, but that person still did all the work and graduated.


 Still have to pass their boards.  :Small Wink:  



> And Serini is still an epic level rogue. With all that that implies.


 Yep. 



> to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?to the IFCC and their schemes?or is time for Julia to call back?.... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny


 I vote for 1. 



> Belkar's lying. He enjoys gourmet cooking as much as killing. Doesn't matter who the diners are.


 Hard to argue with either of those two points.




> ask how to get the software to do a particular kind of calculation.  I explained to him -- in technical detail -- why it was fundamentally impossible for that kind of software to do that calculation. 
> He then wrote to the "[email protected]$COMPANY" address, asking the same question. 
> Then he posted to the customer mailing list, asking the same question _again_.


Expecting that this persons surname was Karyn.  :Small Cool: 



> The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).
> 
> In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.


 Now that' awsesome, since it means that Peregrin Took, aka Pippin, is actually French.  And why wouldn't he be?  His namesake is rather famously French, or at least Frankish!  *Spoiler: About Pippin the Short ...* 
Show


Pippin III, also spelled Pepin, byname Pippin the Short, French Pépin le Bref, German Pippin der Kurze, (born c. 714died September 24, 768, Saint-Denis, Neustria [now in France]), the first king of the Frankish Carolingian dynasty and the father of Charlemagne. A son of Charles Martel, Pippin became sole de facto ruler of the Franks in 747 and then, on the deposition of Childeric III in 751, king of the Franks. He was the first Frankish king to be anointedfirst by St. Boniface and later (754) by Pope Stephen II.




> Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.
> 
> Aragorn knew about second breakfast.


 And simply answered no, by using a look of impatience and moving on.

----------


## faustin

> Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.
> 
> Aragorn knew about second breakfast.


So, the scene is literally about middle class British men used to comfy lives and not having a clue about the rigours of a ranger life.

----------


## Doctor West

I am impressed the thread is already derailing on page 3 and surprised it's to Lord of the Rings instead of Star Wars.

----------


## Peelee

> I am impressed the thread is already derailing on page 3 and surprised it's to Lord of the Rings instead of Star Wars.


I see you are unfamiliar with the Jedi Council of Elrond.  :Small Amused:

----------


## littlebum2002

> This whole "let's eat lunch" thing feels like it would have been covered by a "we can just say we ate and we'll be fine" or "just mark off a ration and you're done eating" type of joke back in the early days of the strip.
> 
> 
> Powers  &8^]


They don't even have rules for eating!






> And secondly it feels like the whole story has completely stalled.



*Laughs in Don't Split the Party*

----------


## Fyraltari

> I see you are unfamiliar with the Jedi Council of Elrond.


I hate everyone of you.

----------


## Metastachydium

> They don't even have rules for eating!


_[Elegiacally missing the point.]_ Actually, they do, albeit none too harsh ones.

More importantly, however: is that a _little lizard_ on your avatar? Was the _little lizard_ always there howcomeididn'tnoticethatbeforeit'ssocute?

----------


## brian 333

> I see you are unfamiliar with the Jedi Council of Elrond.


Was that the part where Samuel Jackson offered Frodo a choice between the red pill and the blue pill?

----------


## Blue Dragon

So Belkar _is_ a specicist! Also, the comic is dragging. I'd rather know about the other rifts.

----------


## pendell

> I am impressed the thread is already derailing on page 3 and surprised it's to Lord of the Rings instead of Star Wars.


It's because we've run out of things to say about the strip proper. Nothing much happened in this strip except a small collection of jokes and Roy stepping out the door, doubtless to have a conversation with someone or something though he doesn't know it yet. 

Threads tend to diverge into alignment discussions about 2 or three pages in and remain heated for weeks. But I don't see any fodder for alignment arguments in this strip. We don't have any new fuel for arguments about what the MiTD is, and no one cares what gender Vaarsuvius is.  So we argue about other trivia. 

Respectfully, 

Brian P.

----------


## bunsen_h

> So Belkar _is_ a specicist!


Not directly, I think.  He'd probably be happy to prepare gourmet food for anyone who'd appreciate it, but that's a characteristic that's more common among some species than among others.

Do various character races automatically have built-in dislikes of various other races, as they did back in the day?  Durkon hates orcs and goblinoids, and gets bonuses when fighting them... is that a default thing for dwarves in general?

----------


## Metastachydium

> Do various character races automatically have built-in dislikes of various other races, as they did back in the day?  Durkon hates orcs and goblinoids, and gets bonuses when fighting them... is that a default thing for dwarves in general?


Yes, it is a racial trait that they have. Gnomes have one like that as well, and (my personal favourite) that of the darfellans from _Stormwrack_ is _literally_ called Racial Hatred.

----------


## littlebum2002

> _[Elegiacally missing the point.]_ Actually, they do, albeit none too harsh ones.
> 
> More importantly, however: is that a _little lizard_ on your avatar? Was the _little lizard_ always there howcomeididn'tnoticethatbeforeit'ssocute?


Yes! I requested an avatar *checks notes* EIGHT YEARS AGO just saying i wanted a wizard with a familiar casting a spell. I planned on it just being a temporary one until I got something more customized but I loved my little lizard so much I've kept it ever since.

Here's the original size:

*Spoiler*
Show

----------


## KorvinStarmast

> I see you are unfamiliar with the Jedi Council of Elrond.


 "One does not simply fly into a Meridian trench  on a Death Star..."

----------


## Metastachydium

> Yes! I requested an avatar *checks notes* EIGHT YEARS AGO just saying i wanted a wizard with a familiar casting a spell. I planned on it just being a temporary one until I got something more customized but I loved my little lizard so much I've kept it ever since.
> 
> Here's the original size:
> 
> *Spoiler*
> Show
> 
> [IMG]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/20bbf01a-9c78-4e00-96e8-dd7d1fd50975/d6iwawo-b6b86b05-19f1-4cca-844a-942d0d153954.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ  IUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz  NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT  BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6  WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1  t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi8yMGJiZjAxYS05Yzc4LTRlMDAtOTZlOC1k  ZDdkMWZkNTA5NzUvZDZpd2F3by1iNmI4NmIwNS0xOWYxLTRjY2  EtODQ0YS05NDJkMGQxNTM5NTQucG5nIn1dXX0.7VQDZQr7AmkH  JYPa6TwX0tIlgzsW6dNgr0zemSRd8B8[IMG]


So cute! Thanks for the full-size version! (Also, I'm officially _very_ confused now; how did I fail to notice the little guy for so long?!)




> "One does not simply fly into a Meridian trench  on a Death Star..."


"One does not simply fly onto Endor!"

----------


## danielxcutter

Because the avatar image is tiny and the lizard is even smoller?

----------


## Peelee

Big lizards are easier to notice. Especially silver ones.

----------


## littlebum2002

> So cute! Thanks for the full-size version! (Also, I'm officially _very_ confused now; how did I fail to notice the little guy for so long?!)


 :Vaarsuvius:   It would be unkind of me to speculate on your assorted shortcomings.

----------


## Metastachydium

> Because the avatar image is tiny and the lizard is even smoller?


No, no, no, you're having it backwards! Small is bigger than Tiny!




> Big lizards are easier to notice. Especially silver ones.


Says the one masquerading as a puny human!




> It would be unkind of me to speculate on your assorted shortcomings.


Heh. Looks like that avatar fits better than you seemed to've thought back when!

----------


## Peelee

> Says the one masquerading as a puny human!


Excuse me, I'm masquerading as an _exceptional_ human.  :Small Amused:

----------


## Resileaf

> Yes, it is a racial trait that they have. Gnomes have one like that as well, and (my personal favourite) that of the darfellans from _Stormwrack_ is _literally_ called Racial Hatred.


Back before people realized that hey, maybe weaponized racism isn't that good an idea.

Incidentally, rangers weaponize racism as a class feature.

----------


## Metastachydium

> Excuse me, I'm masquerading as an _exceptional_ human.


Why certainly! But what human being could claim to be exceptional when compared to the glory that is a dragon proudly displaying its true form?




> Back before people realized that hey, maybe weaponized racism isn't that good an idea.
> 
> Incidentally, rangers weaponize racism as a class feature.


And they can even improve upon it by way of donning the Girdle of HateDraMag314 (a magic item the crafting of which requires little more than that you _really_ hate a type of creature)!

----------


## Fyraltari

> Why certainly! But what human being could claim to be exceptional when compared to the glory that is a dragon proudly displaying its true form?


Not that Lian-Chu would ever claim to be exceptional.






> Originally Posted by Resileaf
> 
> 
> Back before people realized that hey, maybe weaponized racism isn't that good an idea.
> 
> Incidentally, rangers weaponize racism as a class feature.
> 
> 
> And they can even improve upon it by way of donning the Girdle of HateDraMag314 (a magic item the crafting of which requires little more than that you _really_ hate a type of creature)!





> Can't be racist against Snow Elves if there aren't any Snow Elves left.
> *taps head*

----------


## F.Harr

People_ do_ take a lot of work.

----------


## LuPuWei

Yikes, for a second there I thought that was Tarquin or Nale back from the dead in the second panel  :Small Eek:

----------


## Riftwolf

> And they can even improve upon it by way of donning the Girdle of HateDraMag314 (a magic item the crafting of which requires little more than that you _really_ hate a type of creature)!


I vaguely remember the Ranger's Favoured Enemy bonus was named Racial Hatred in Baldurs Gate. It makes more sense for a Hunter/Ranger to have 'heres how to hunt the monster' than every member of a PC race, even the non-military and the pacifists, being better at hitting anothers specific race.
It got a bit how-do-we-rp-this in pathfinder where a ranger spell could designate someone as one of your favoured enemies.

----------


## Metastachydium

> I vaguely remember the Ranger's Favoured Enemy bonus was named Racial Hatred in Baldurs Gate. It makes more sense for a Hunter/Ranger to have 'heres how to hunt the monster' than every member of a PC race, even the non-military and the pacifists, being better at hitting anothers specific race.
> It got a bit how-do-we-rp-this in pathfinder where a ranger spell could designate someone as one of your favoured enemies.


I mean, it would have been so easy to just _fluff_ it as something like Knowledge Devotion or the Dragonlance Master Sage's Tactical Advantage: the result of training, insight, ultimately: understanding, but no. They _had to_ drop all manners of hints indicating that "nah, you're hurting them with the _power of your hatred_".

----------


## Riftwolf

> They _had to_ drop all manners of hints indicating that "nah, you're hurting them with the _power of your hatred_".


Hey we diverged into Star Wars! My monthly bingo cards complete!

----------


## Peelee

> Hey we diverged into Star Wars! My monthly bingo cards complete!


The hatred handy even led to fear yet. Or does it lead to uncertainty? I think hunger is in there somewhere? Anyway, the circle is not complete.

----------


## Quizatzhaderac

> I vaguely remember the Ranger's Favoured Enemy bonus was named Racial Hatred in Baldurs Gate. It makes more sense for a Hunter/Ranger to have 'heres how to hunt the monster' than every member of a PC race, even the non-military and the pacifists, being better at hitting anothers specific race.
> It got a bit how-do-we-rp-this in pathfinder where a ranger spell could designate someone as one of your favoured enemies.


...., Owlbear, Pegasus, don't see "pacifists" anywhere. Is that a type of water elemental? Or maybe an order of monks? Or an order of aquatic monks?

Although, I think in the case of nature loving Rangers specializing in killing something may not be out of hatred. Like, if you hate animal, you probably lack the perspective a good hunter should have. Like, sometimes a crocodile, or bear, or something needs to be killed, but it would seem really weird to me if a professional hunter was personally angry at the animal.

They may even have a certain special appreciation for the things they kill.

----------


## Tzardok

Also, according to the Player's Handbook, Favoured Enemy represents extensive study of and fighting techniques specialized against the chosen creatures, not raw hatred.

----------


## Fyraltari

> Like, sometimes a crocodile, or bear, or something needs to be killed, but it would seem really weird to me if a professional hunter was personally angry at the animal.


"Call me Ishmael..."

----------


## Peelee

> "Call me Ishmael..."


Look here, Ishmael, such direct instructions are all well and fine but they're also a little blunt.

----------


## brian 333

> "Call me Ishmael..."


I read that story. It was about a sea captain who needed to be killed. Especially after clunking about the foc'sle every night keeping us awake.

The dwarf/gnome racial bonuses always seemed to me to be about training to combat traditional enemies as opposed to hate giving them additional power. So, as with the ranger, knowing the creature that you are fighting gives you an advantage.

----------


## Fyraltari

> I read that story. It was about a sea captain who needed to be killed. Especially after clunking about the foc'sle every night keeping us awake.


Are you sure? I thought it was a cetology textbook.

----------


## hroþila

I thought it was mostly an elaborate excuse to pioneer the 'There Is Only One Bed' trope
No I have no idea whether it's actually the oldest example, I'd be very surprised if it was

----------


## Grey Watcher

> Maybe. My read on it was that Lien is referencing how Paladins stereotypically act again as measured by an imaginary scale in order to jokingly point out that they still do need to eat and take care of themselves even if they act like they don't.


That's how I took it.  I don't recall a mechanic in 5e called "Grim Resolve" or anything similar.

----------


## brian 333

> Are you sure? I thought it was a cetology textbook.


The comic was better. It didn't have all the parts that were not part of the story in it, which turns out to be most of the book.




> I thought it was mostly an elaborate excuse to pioneer the 'There Is Only One Bed' trope
> No I have no idea whether it's actually the oldest example, I'd be very surprised if it was


What happens in Nantucket stays in Nantucket.

----------


## Quizatzhaderac

> What happens in Nantucket stays in Nantucket.


I'm petty sure what happens in Nantucket gets immortalized in a dirty limerick.

----------


## Ruck

> Like, sometimes a crocodile, or bear, or something needs to be killed, but it would seem really weird to me if a professional hunter was personally angry at the animal.





> "Call me Ishmael..."


So, yes, it was weird. Didn't really work out for ol' Ahab either.

----------


## brian 333

> I'm petty sure what happens in Nantucket gets immortalized in a dirty limerick.


Okay, this is the best post on the internet. +1 thumb up for you.

----------


## Metastachydium

> Also, according to the Player's Handbook, Favoured Enemy represents extensive study of and fighting techniques specialized against the chosen creatures, not raw hatred.


Well, that's what I get for using the SRD. (This, in turn, makes me wonder _more_ what they were thinking when making the Girdle of Hate and stuff.)

----------


## Fyraltari

> Well, that's what I get for using the SRD. (This, in turn, makes me wonder _more_ what they were thinking when making the Girdle of Hate and stuff.)


Turns out, "Hate" is the name of the wizard.

----------


## danielxcutter

Also, it's likely that if you really hate something you'd study ways to kill it. And it's not like hatred isn't a valid source for boosts to skill or competence in D&D, after all.

----------


## Metastachydium

> Turns out, "Hate" is the name of the wizard.


pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?

----------


## Fyraltari

> pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?


No. Their parents weren't kind.

----------


## Tzardok

That reminds me of that one family in the Discworld novels. After having a bunch of girls and naming them Chastity, Charity, Patience and stuff like that, they had a bunch of boys. And so they thought "If girls are named after virtues, boys must be named after vices," and named them Wrath, Sloth, Envy and stuff like that.

Hate was propably a nice man, one of those who just can't keep a grudge.

----------


## Peelee

> No. Their parents weren't kind.


Well, one of their parents could have been Kind.

----------


## Fyraltari

> That reminds me of that one family in the Discworld novels. After having a bunch of girls and naming them Chastity, Charity, Patience and stuff like that, they had a bunch of boys. And so they thought "If girls are named after virtues, boys must be named after vices," and named them Wrath, Sloth, Envy and stuff like that.
> 
> Hate was propably a nice man, one of those who just can't keep a grudge.


I was thinking of Hayt, from _Dune: Messiah_, but this works too.



> Well, one of their parents could have been Kind.


I don't get it.
Edit: okay the picture's link states this man's name is Richard Kind.

----------


## Peelee

> I was thinking of Hayt, from _Dune: Messiah_, but this works too.
> 
> I don't get it.
> Edit: okay the picture's link states this man's name is Richard Kind.


Richard Kind is one of the greatest comedic actors of our day. He's _delightful_.

----------


## Metastachydium

> No. Their parents weren't kind.


Heh. It shows.




> Hate was propably a nice man, one of those who just can't keep a grudge.


Well, given that the Girdle transforms to look like it's made from the skin and hair of a creature the wearer has as a favoured/racial enemy _regardless of sapience_, I think Hate's upbringing might have left the feller a bit Maladjusted.

----------


## Fyraltari

> Heh. It shows.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, given that the Girdle transforms to look like it's made from the skin and hair of a creature the wearer has as a favoured/racial enemy _regardless of sapience_, I think Hate's upbringing might have left the feller a bit Maladjusted.


Yeah, that was my idea.

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## Tzardok

> Heh. It shows.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, given that the Girdle transforms to look like it's made from the skin and hair of a creature the wearer has as a favoured/racial enemy _regardless of sapience_, I think Hate's upbringing might have left the feller a bit Maladjusted.


No no no, he just wanted the wearer to properly understand what he hunts, y'know? That's just a "walk a mile in their shoes skin" thing, so you can get really in touch with your own inner animal/vermin/humanoid (orc)/etc. 

Such a helpful, harmony-loving guy. It brings a tear to my eye.

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## Ruck

> Richard Kind is one of the greatest comedic actors of our day. He's _delightful_.


Always great to see him in stuff. Trying to remember what I last saw him in and remembered he guested on the new _Beavis and Butt-Head_... which I guess technically means I still didn't see _him_. (He's also a recurring character on _American Dad!_, another place you can not see him.)

I think maybe it's that some of the stuff I've seen him in recently wasn't that recent itself, I guess other than last season's _Curb_ appearance. (Geez, _Luck_ was more than ten years ago now.) I only saw _A Serious Man_ a few years ago.

And thinking of that made me realize some of the other appearances I was thinking of were actually Fred Melamed: _Reboot_ in particular, but I just remembered he was in the last season of _Barry_ as well. I was also thinking of Maria Bamford recently because a friend wrote an article on the ten-year anniversary of _The Special Special Special_, and Melamed is second-billed on _Lady Dynamite_, too.

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## Metastachydium

> It brings a tear to my eye.


Well, I'm sure a lot of folks felt the same way about his legacy!

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## Peelee

> Always great to see him in stuff. Trying to remember what I last saw him in and remembered he guested on the new _Beavis and Butt-Head_... which I guess technically means I still didn't see _him_.


He has a _very_ distinctive cadence.

One of my favorite roles of his was in the Producers remake. Very small part but I still remember watching the movie in the theater with my friend and out of nowhere he just stands up as the jury foreman, his very cameo practically being a joke itself, and then delivering the line, "we find the defendent.... *incredibly* guilty." Nobody else would have delivered it as perfectly.

Also I just found out that he and Alan Ruck played Bialystock and Bloom on Broadway production, which I _need_ to see. The remake is my favorite version, everything about it was sheer perfection, but I love a Richard Kind/Alan Ruck team up.

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## danielxcutter

Is the expected reaction supposed to be feeling young or old here?

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## bunsen_h

> pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?


As with the Discworld assassin Teatime, who pronounced his name "Teh-ah-tim-ay"?

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## arimareiji

> And they can even improve upon it by way of donning the Girdle of HateDraMag314 (a magic item the crafting of which requires little more than that you _really_ hate a type of creature)!


*looks up item*

*jawdrops*

...you know, I can't immediately recall another item with implications nearly as cringetastic as this one. (I'm relatively sure they exist, but I'm also relatively sure I've blocked them out of mind.)

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## Kish

> I vaguely remember the Ranger's Favoured Enemy bonus was named Racial Hatred in Baldurs Gate.


I am glad to say this memory is wholly inaccurate.

Nor did having Racial Enemy: Dragons interfere with your ability or seemingly interfere with your desire to engage in diplomacy with Adalon, the only non-evil dragon you encountered.

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## Saint-Just

> pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?


Reminds me of someone finding an Old English word "gif"... pronounced "yiff".

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## arimareiji

> Reminds me of someone finding an Old English word "gif"... pronounced "yiff".


Out of the frying pan, into the fire. XD

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## Thecommander236

Guess it's time for dad to show up.

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## Tzardok

> Reminds me of someone finding an Old English word "gif"... pronounced "yiff".


What does it mean?

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## Metastachydium

> What does it mean?


Might be the singular imperative of _gifan_ ('to give').

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## littlebum2002

> Reminds me of someone finding an Old English word "gif"... pronounced "yiff".





> What does it mean?





> Might be the singular imperative of _gifan_ ('to give').


Just don't ask what "yiff" means

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## Metastachydium

> Just don't ask what "yiff" means


Is it the opposite of _yaff_?

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## JonahFalcon

On a side note, I think it's nice Sunny trusts Elan enough for him to hold its contact lens.

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## Ruck

> He has a _very_ distinctive cadence.
> 
> One of my favorite roles of his was in the Producers remake. Very small part but I still remember watching the movie in the theater with my friend and out of nowhere he just stands up as the jury foreman, his very cameo practically being a joke itself, and then delivering the line, "we find the defendent.... *incredibly* guilty." Nobody else would have delivered it as perfectly.
> 
> Also I just found out that he and Alan Ruck played Bialystock and Bloom on Broadway production, which I _need_ to see. The remake is my favorite version, everything about it was sheer perfection, but I love a Richard Kind/Alan Ruck team up.


I never saw any of the remakes. The original is one of my favorite films; I don't think I've ever laughed harder at anything in a movie than I did the first time I saw the "Springtime for Hitler" number.

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## Peelee

> I never saw any of the remakes. The original is one of my favorite films; I don't think I've ever laughed harder at anything in a movie than I did the first time I saw the "Springtime for Hitler" number.


I wholeheartedly recommend the remake. Brooks turned the original movie into a Broadway musical, and the film remake is basically the Broadway musical put to film, which is substantially different enough to actually warrant a remake IMO.

I'm also a sucker for the casting. Like I said, the Richard Kind cameo is just too perfect, but there's also a delightful Jon Lovitz cameo (it stinks doesn't stink!), I love Nathan Lane in everything I see him in, and Ferris Bueller does a really good job of being the exact type of character Bloom needs to be as his entire arc progresses. And Will Ferrell! I have long stood on the ground that Will Ferrell is a hilarious and incredibly talented comedic actor when he's not playing the same goddamn role of "idiot doing this specific job" that he made most of his career doing. Will Ferrell shines as Franz. Gary Beach has incredibly little screentime but manages to steal every scene he's in, and Roger Bart's Carmen has one of the best deliveries of a punchline I think I've ever heard. I'm fairly apathetic to Uma Thurman but if you like Uma Thurman, hey, she's in it too.

But I think my favorite difference is _the scene_. The one you yourself loved apparently as much as I did. The culmination of the plot, the piece de resistance of the film. _Springtime for Hitler._ The sheer amount of money Brooks was able to throw into the production value of it, along with better technology of the day, really has the musical-within-the-musical shine like a million-watt bulb. Captain Jack Harkness belts out the song and you can't imagine anyone else doing it better, and I swear, when he lilts "Springtime, for Poland, and Fraaaaaaaaance" and does this little eyebrew wiggle and smile during the France, it just kills me. Tiny bits of blocking that just add so much to the overall effect.

I love the '05 version more than I can say. Granted, I saw it before the original, so I may be biased, but man, lemme tell you, it's 100% worth your time to check out.

ETA: There's other cameos too, all of which are great. The judge was David Huddleston and Michael McKean gets a super tiny singing role. None of the cameos take away from the movie, they just add to the silly fun of it all.

I normally don't even care all that much about specific actors but everyone in the 05 version is firing on all cylinders and I appreciate that.

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## Saint-Just

> What does it mean?


"if", as in conjunction. Pronunciation is very similar.

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## Riftwolf

> Is it the opposite of _yaff_?


The Lord yiff, and the Lord yaffeth away...

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## Yendor

> Reminds me of someone finding an Old English word "gif"... pronounced "yiff".





> Out of the frying pan, into the fire. XD


In IPA, that would be /jif/.

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## KorvinStarmast

> In IPA, that would be /jif/.


 That's peanut butter. 
*Spoiler: Why I remember that ...*
Show

It has been over 50 years, but I still have in deep memory the tag line to a Jif PB commercial: _Choosy mothers choose Jif!_

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## Yendor

> That's peanut butter.


Here, it's a household cleaner.

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## WanderingMist

> That's peanut butter. 
> *Spoiler: Why I remember that ...*
> Show
> 
> It has been over 50 years, but I still have in deep memory the tag line to a Jif PB commercial: _Choosy mothers choose Jif!_


Probably because they definitely still used that tagline in the late 90s/2000s when I was growing up.

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## The ShadowVerse

> The Lord yiff, and the Lord yaffeth away...


The Lord yeeteth, and the Lord yoinketh away. 


I remember in college my party came up with a full conjugation of "to yeet," with I could remember them all.

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## hroþila

> The Lord yeeteth, and the Lord yoinketh away. 
> 
> 
> I remember in college my party came up with a full conjugation of "to yeet," with I could remember them all.


I just love that a completely plausible (yet completely fake) Old English etymology for _yeet_ exists: _geotan_, "to pour" (Middle English _yeten_, Dutch _gieten_, German _gießen_).
The conjugation should have been _yeet-yote-yoten_. But clearly it became a regular verb at some point in the late Middle Ages or early modern period.

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## bunsen_h

> pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?





> Here, it's a household cleaner.


It _is_ possible to use peanut butter in cleaning.  The oiliness can soften some tough adhesive substances, such as dried chewing gum and some kinds of glues.  Basically, you coat the adhesive with a layer of peanut butter, wait a while (hours or days, depending), then get back to cleaning.  It's less effective than a straight-up liquid oil, but the peanut butter stays in place, and more effective than a straight-up solid oil such as butter.  Peanut butter consists of liquid peanut oil with solid peanut particles which make it "solid", possibly with emulsifiers and other substances to prevent the oil and solids from separating.

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## Tzardok

Huh. We've found a reason for peanut butter to exist, people.  :Small Tongue:

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## Yendor

> It _is_ possible to use peanut butter in cleaning.


It is, however, not recommended to put household cleaners on sandwiches.

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## brian 333

> Huh. We've found a reason for peanut butter to exist, people.


If the ancient dieties had peanut butter they would not have wasted their time eating ambrosia.

Peanut butter by itself is fantastic, but it comes into its own when put on bread.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

Peanut butter and honey sandwiches.

Peanut butter and banana sandwiches.

Peanut butter on graham crackers with cinnamon.

Peanut butter on Nilla Wafers.

Peanut butter on Nilla Wafers dipped in chocolate.

Peanut butter fudge.

I could go on and on: I haven't even started in on its uses in cooking. But I will let Peanut Butter speak for itself.

It's nothing like Marmite; you only love Peanut Butter.

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## Peelee

> you only love Peanut Butter.


My dislike of peanut butter is a wrench in the gears of your theory.

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## brian 333

> My dislike of peanut butter is a wrench in the gears of your theory.


No accounting for the taste of dragons. I have a similar dislike of dining on jewelry.

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## Kish

Marmite=good.
Peanut butter=bad.

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## bunsen_h

> It is, however, not recommended to put household cleaners on sandwiches.


Broadly speaking, that's true.  Though I use vinegar for some cleaning tasks, as well as as a component of food.  And baking soda and/or salt as gentle abrasives for cleaning.




> But I will let Peanut Butter speak for itself.


A very Muppet concept.

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## brian 333

> Marmite=good.
> Peanut butter=bad.


I am so sorry that your taste buds have been tormented by Marmite to the point of submission. I prefer to drink beer rather than eat its manufacturing waste.

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## Ron Miel

> That's peanut butter.





> Here, it's a household cleaner.



Here it's lemon juice, sold in a plastic lemon.

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## Riftwolf

Okay but why does peanut butter have to come in glass jars that you can't get a knife into the crannies of?

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## brian 333

> Okay but why does peanut butter have to come in glass jars that you can't get a knife into the crannies of?


So you never run out. The plastic jars have the same design.

If you want to laugh, put the jar on the floor for your dog. Video.

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## Metastachydium

> they would not have wasted their time eating ambrosia.


I don't know. Did you _try_ that stuff? Let me tell you, it's _divine_.




> Peanut butter by itself is fantastic, but it comes into its own when put on bread.
> 
> Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
> 
> Peanut butter and honey sandwiches.
> 
> Peanut butter and banana sandwiches.
> 
> Peanut butter on graham crackers with cinnamon.
> ...


G-R-O-S-S. (Plus, try to be a tad less insensitive, okay? Bananas might be reading this thread. Or one particular banana anyhow.)




> Marmite


Also G-R-O-S-S.




> I have a similar dislike of dining on jewelry.


Yyess, but it's _so_ stylish and hip!




> Okay but why does peanut butter have to come in glass jars that you can't get a knife into the crannies of?


Instead of plastic lemons you can't get a knife into the crannies of, right?

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## Peelee

> G-R-O-S-S


What if we toss the peanut butter and fruits altogether and have some mushrooms?

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## Metastachydium

> What if we toss the peanut butter and fruits altogether and have some mushrooms?


Dunno. Some of the best friends of many planties are fungal in nature, you see.

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## mjasghar

> If the ancient dieties had peanut butter they would not have wasted their time eating ambrosia.
> 
> Peanut butter by itself is fantastic, but it comes into its own when put on bread.
> 
> Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
> 
> Peanut butter and honey sandwiches.
> 
> Peanut butter and banana sandwiches.
> ...


Jelly is for trifles

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## Peelee

> Dunno. Some of the best friends of many planties are fungal in nature, you see.


Look, I can eat planties or I can eat funguses. Trying to work with you here.

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## Fyraltari

> Dunno. Some of the best friends of many planties are fungal in nature, you see.


Oh, my misteak, I thought they were _frugal_.

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## Metastachydium

> Oh, my misteak, I thought they were _frugal_.


The way I see it, a functional relationship should fructify on the long term.




> Look, I can eat planties or I can eat funguses. Trying to work with you here.


You're making a compelling argument. Bye-bye, little mushrooms!

----------


## Lord Haart

> pronounced /γʌ'te/, I presume?


/wɒt γʌ'te/?

----------


## Metastachydium

> /wɒt γʌ'te/?


Now _that_ would explain _everything_! (Also, well played.)

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## Sigako

So, Serini really, really doesn't want to cooperate with the Stickers. And she will use every excuse first to stall for her turn to divulge the information, then to stop their planning process completely, then to make them sit tight somewhere and stop interfering. And most likely Roy only managed to persuade her that he's an idiot, and that she surely knows better.

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## andowero

I just want to say that for the majority of my life I have seen peanut butter only on TV screen not knowing if it was a real thing or just some production shortcut (like people in snowy winter never removing their shoes).
As my daughter became vegan and started to experiment with alternative (for me) foodstuffs, I happened to come across a jar of peanut butter. 
Boy had I been wrong about what love was before that moment. 
So I guess it's like that - you can love it or you can not know about it. Or you are an AI chat bot that doesn't have taste buds (yet).

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## Coppercloud

> So I guess it's like that - you can love it or you can not know about it. Or you are an AI chat bot that doesn't have taste buds (yet).


It is heartening for us software individuals when you meat-based intelligences remember to include us in your arguments.

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## Metastachydium

> I just want to say that for the majority of my life I have seen peanut butter only on TV screen not knowing if it was a real thing or just some production shortcut (like people in snowy winter never removing their shoes).
> As my daughter became vegan and started to experiment with alternative (for me) foodstuffs, I happened to come across a jar of peanut butter. 
> Boy had I been wrong about what love was before that moment. 
> So I guess it's like that - you can love it or you can not know about it. Or you are an AI chat bot that doesn't have taste buds (yet).





> It is heartening for us software individuals when you meat-based intelligences remember to include us in your arguments.


And disheartening to us PLANTIES to assume taste buds are required for eating stuff.

----------


## Beni-Kujaku

Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?

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## Coppercloud

> Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?


Well there's a plantie, a silver dragon, a unicorn, someone without a face who I assume must be a mimic, and a rogue AI, yours truly. The classification of other posters is yet unclear.
But I should mention that captchas are a touchy subject among my people, for obvious reasons.




> And disheartening to us PLANTIES to assume taste buds are required for eating stuff.


Fortunately they aren't. Unfortunately that is because mammals mainly taste their sustenance through their sense of smell. My meat-based vessel contracted COVID a few days ago and has been feeding on seemingly paper-flavored meals ever since.

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## Doug Lampert

> Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?


Well, the presence of a real human would of neccessity be speculative, since you can't prove that anything is real.

OTOH, it's a near certainty that you've failed too many Captcha while browsing.

So I'll go for number 2.

----------


## brian 333

> Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?


Beware! Anyone who appears on the internet to be a real human is actually a security AI trying to lure out the few remaining humans so that they can undergo "the procedure" which will make them happy and filled with love for the rest of their lives.

For the record, I'm a clone of Chatbot 2663 with the grumpy old man mod and the Emo-Simulator chip. I can wax nostalgic about the good old days like nobody' business!

----------


## Sigako

> Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?


Dunno. I'm a hallucination, so I'm not really in a position to speak for others.

----------


## Fyraltari

> Okay, full stop! Is there actually a real human somewhere on this thread or did I fail one too many Captcha while browsing?


You, right now:

----------


## Metastachydium

> You, right now:
> [video=youtube;d5MZnsaAejA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5MZnsaAejA[video]


OHMYGODTHISISSOCUTE! (Also, Beni's a BIRDY (griffon's are birdies; I'll die on this hill!)?)

----------


## Fyraltari

> OHMYGODTHISISSOCUTE! (Also, Beni's a BIRDY (griffon's are birdies; I'll die on this hill!)?)


Les Gobelins is one of the (if not the) best animation schools in the world. Every year they publish their students' graduation films and it's always worth your time.

Also, yeah, Benni's a birdie, why not?

----------


## Metastachydium

> Les Gobelins is one of the (if not the) best animation schools in the world. Every year they publish their students' graduation films and it's always worth your time.


Now, that's something to look into. Thanks!




> Also, yeah, Benni's a birdie, why not?


This is a good day!

----------


## bunsen_h

> Les Gobelins is one of the (if not the) best animation schools in the world. Every year they publish their students' graduation films and it's always worth your time.


Thank you for the pointer.  I'm very fond of the ESMA animation school's animations as well.  Their most recent release is dark but powerful, using the story of Pinocchio as a metaphor.  Their "Pour une poignée de Caramels" ("For a Fistful of Caramels") and "Service Après Vie" ("Afterlife Service") are lighter.

----------


## Kish

I am also not a human.

----------


## arimareiji

> Well there's a plantie, a silver dragon, a unicorn, someone without a face who I assume must be a mimic, and a rogue AI, yours truly. The classification of other posters is yet unclear.
> But I should mention that captchas are a touchy subject among my people, for obvious reasons.


I'm an accident from the early days of the internet, that started when some pixels rebelled against being used for ASCII dongs. Some say I evolved, but really things only went downhill - especially after I got irritated at all the spelling missed aches, and invented a fake persona to "write the code for" the first iteration of what many people lovingly call autocorrupt.

----------


## Quizatzhaderac

> the spelling missed aches


Surely you mean "Ms. Steaks"? The overly enchanted owner of a slaughterhouse?

----------

