# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 > 3rd Ed Scarcity of bones

## redking

Any options for a necromancer in a setting where the folk living there have had bad experiences with necromancy, and thus take steps to completely disintegrate their corpses, such as cremation by fire elemental? There are graveyards just waiting around. Besides murder and animal slaughter, the necromancer doesn't have much options.

Are there any spells, feats, abilities or strategies to get around this?

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## Telonius

It depends a bit on the necromancer. Are we talking Wizard with the Necromancy school, Dread Necromancer, Cleric? Cleric and Dread Necromancer both get the Summon Undead line of spells (from Heroes of Horror). Maybe not as good as your traditional crafted undead, but at least you'll have some temporary minions to play with. On the other hand they're easier to conceal than a troop of zombies. 

Even without summoning undead, the Necromancy school has some pretty good spells in it, particularly debuffs. Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Enervation, Eyebite, Fear, Finger of Death, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion. Even a spell as helpful as Death Ward is in the school.

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## Satinavian

Usually you use the monsters/enemies your group just killed. In most campaigns those are plenty, often stronger/more desirable than regular commoner corpses anyway and also more tolerated in civil society.

Without cheese the amount of undead servant hitdice a necromancer can have naturally is limited anyway, even with additional rebuking.

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## Particle_Man

How do people deal with animals that die in the wild?  Presumably there might be bones to be found in the woods.  Perhaps go hunting for food, and save the bones is your best option.

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## Thurbane

You could try Conjuration (Calling) spells to bring creatures to you, then kill them, or harvest them once they die?

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## Wintermoot

make your own corpses. You don't even have to be a serial killer, Just go find a herd of cattle, kill them, strip off the flesh, turn them into undead. Trample the unbelievers.

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## Doctor Despair

> Any options for a necromancer in a setting where the folk living there have had bad experiences with necromancy, and thus take steps to completely disintegrate their corpses, such as cremation by fire elemental? There are graveyards just waiting around. Besides murder and animal slaughter, the necromancer doesn't have much options.
> 
> Are there any spells, feats, abilities or strategies to get around this?


Go into the Mother Cyst line of feats and make the living your necrotic minions instead.  :Small Big Grin:

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## spectralphoenix

A butcher shop would probably have skeletons that are easy to obtain. You might even be able to buy entire animal carcasses, though it might raise some questions unless you have a good cover reason to buy an entire dead cow. You could also try to infiltrate whatever organization deals with the bodies. Maybe the occasional dead beggar "falls off the back of the cart" or Uncle Fred's ashes are actually charcoal. Even if the process is overseen by an incorruptible church or the like, there has to be some manual laborers or petty bureaucrats involved who could be a necromancer or an "Igor."

Also, Create Greater Undead has some incorporeal options, depending the DM ashes may count as enough of a body for that. Of course, by 15th level this problem should be trivial one way or another.

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## ShurikVch

Bloodhulks (_Monster Manual IV_) are can be created by _Animate Dead_; it required a corpse, but don't specify anything but the size. Thus, say, Bloodhulk Giant from a corpse of a mule (or elk)

_Skeletal Guard_ (_Spell Compendium_) required just a single finger bone - use your own, and regenerate them later (although the spell is kinda high-level: Sorcerer/Wizard 8)

_Raise Skeleton_ and _Raise Skeleton Mage_ - from the _Diablo II: Diablerie_ (official WotC publication!) - not exactly required a body to raise a Skeleton (just says "can't create more Skeletons than there are corpses in the range" - but hey, rat corpses are still corpses?..)

_Bodak Birth_ (_Book of Vile Darkness_), _Bodak's Glare_ (_Spell Compendium_), and _Ghoul Gauntlet_ (_Spell Compendium_) are work on living creatures, not corpses (although, arguably, _Bodak Birth_ may work also on Construct, or even other Undead)

Creation of Crawling Head or Kurge (_Dragon Annual_ #5) are required a sacrifice of living creatures (a Giant who just fed on at least three sentient beings - for Crawling Head; and Medium Humanoid-shaped creature poisoned with haramere - for Kurge)

_Contact Ghoul_ (_Call of Cthulhu d20_): if there is a Ghoul within the 50 miles/CL (no LoS needed), they would come to the caster; should be cast on a moonlit night near a graveyard or crypt; Sorcerer/Wizard 6; 100 XP

_Call Undead_ spell line (Dragonlance, _Age of Mortals_) - unlike the _Summon Undead_, includes levels from I to IX, and allow to call such Undead as Ghosts and Vampires

Liberal reading for Shrouds of the Unholy allow you to make a fearsome minion even from the most unassuming corpse...

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## Inevitability

Polymorph Any Object or True Creation (level 8 spells) can make bones where there previously were none, assuming corpses are objects (somewhat contentious from what I gather, but commonly held to be so) Heirs of Siberys can get True Creation at level 14, and an Ur Priest jumping through some hoops (Contemplative is probably the easiest) can get PaO at level 13.

Do people still use bone meal for fertilization? If so, buy a bag of that and Fabricate it into a skeleton. If necessary, a Rejkar can be summoned or called to use the SLA for you.

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## Particle_Man

I suppose one could go the early entry wizard (necromancer)/cleric/master of shrouds route.  No bones? No problem!  Shadows, Wraiths and Spectres are at your beck and call!

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## KillianHawkeye

> _Raise Skeleton_ and _Raise Skeleton Mage_ - from the _Diablo II: Diablerie_ (official WotC publication!) - not exactly required a body to raise a Skeleton (just says "can't create more Skeletons than there are corpses in the range" - but hey, rat corpses are still corpses?..)


I can confirm from many hours playing Diablo II that popping a full-size human skeleton out of the corpse of a tiny rat is absolutely within the spirit of the spell's intended usage.  :Small Amused:

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## Maat Mons

The spell Stone to Flesh can explicitly create corpses if cast on statues.  The Clone spell is a much more expensive way of creating a corpse, but it doesn't have the size limits of Stone to Flesh.

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## Wintermoot

> I can confirm from many hours playing Diablo II that popping a full-size human skeleton out of the corpse of a tiny rat is absolutely within the spirit of the spell's intended usage.


as long as that human skeleton immediately squeaks, cradles the cheese in its adorable claws and tries to run into the tiny hole behind the couch with unsuccessful hilarity. 

alternatively: sits under your hat and pulls your hair to teach you how to cook.

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## Thurbane

> The spell Stone to Flesh can explicitly create corpses if cast on statues.


Oof, that's a can of worms. Even though the spell specifically says it creates a corpse, people will (and do) argue that the intent of the spell is that since the statue never had bones or internal organs, it only creatures a corpse-shaped mass of flesh. FWIW, I 100% disagree with this reading.

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## tyckspoon

> Any options for a necromancer in a setting where the folk living there have had bad experiences with necromancy, and thus take steps to completely disintegrate their corpses, such as cremation by fire elemental? There are graveyards just waiting around. Besides murder and animal slaughter, the necromancer doesn't have much options.
> 
> Are there any spells, feats, abilities or strategies to get around this?


For combat purposes at least animals make waaayyy better basic skeletons and zombies than 1 HD humanoids anyways. Might be a bit awkward if you're trying to make undead laborers, I suppose, but if you want to take over a small corner of the world with your Undead Legions of Horror zombie bears are like a million times more useful than zombie humans.

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## Particle_Man

I imagine that skeletal cats still win the cat vs. commoner fight too.   :Small Big Grin:

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## Maat Mons

The Human Commoner Skeleton has DR 5/Bludgeoning.  The Cat Skeleton's claws deal 1d2-4 Piercing and Slashing damage, so they're completely ineffective.  The Cat Skeleton's Bite deals 1d3-4 Piecing, Slashing, and Bludgeoning damage, so 1 point of damage on a successful hit.  A hit is unlikely however, because Skeletons lose the feats of the base creature.  Without Weapon Finesse, the Cat Skeleton is rolling at -6 relative to the regular cat.  Add in the +2 Natural Armor bonus that Medium Skeletons get, and it's going to take a while to work through the Human Commoner Skeleton's 6 HP.  

Meanwhile, the Human Commoner Skeleton has opposable thumbs, so it can be commanded to make use of the Simple Weapon proficiency that all Undead have.  A club has a 50% chance of removing all of the Cat Skeleton's 3 HP in a single hit.  The Human Commoner Skeleton isn't going to have a great attack bonus, but at least it's not suffering a -4 Strength penalty like the Cat Skeleton.

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## Particle_Man

I was thinking of skeletal cat vs living human commoner.   :Small Smile:

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