# Forum > Gaming > Roleplaying Games >  System like this? Generic, rules-lite, skill-based, with some class-like restrictions

## Greywander

I haven't actually played D&D in some time, and the more homebrew I write up the more I feel like maybe I should move to a different system that's already closer to what I'm looking for.  I fear I might be looking for something too specific.  It can also be hard to articulate exactly what it is I'm looking for, but I'll do my best.  Here's a few things that I consider important.

*Generic and Universal*
I'd like a system that can handle any kind of setting and any kind of situation.  Anything from piloting a space ship to running a business.  I like open-ended sandbox-style play; if there is a narrative to follow, that narrative is open-ended and has many possible paths to pursue.

*Simple and Elegant Rules*
Maybe not strictly speaking "rules-lite", but the rules should not get in the way of playing the game.  I actually do want interesting mechanics that are fun and engaging, but a lot of systems seem to add complexity in the rules with no real benefit.  I don't really need a list of hundreds of hyper-specific skills like GURPS, for example.  I do want actual rules, however, and not just reducing everything to "roll a die and add one of three stats to the roll".

*Moddable*
I spend more time writing homebrew than actually playing.  Though maybe that says more about how little I play.  Regardless, I'd like a system that can be tinkered with.  I'm not entirely sure what that looks like, perhaps it's just down to the rules being simple enough for you to change one thing without having to go through and rewrite every other thing to account for that change.  Or perhaps it means allowing a homebrew subsystem to hook into the base system, so that the two can interact with one another easily.

*Skill-Based*
I actually abhor class-based systems.  It just seems kinda dumb that a character is somehow completely unable to learn a new skill, or if they are able to, it requires learning an entirely new profession just to acquire that one skill.  I like the freedom that skill-based systems provide when it comes to building a character, as it allows me to design my own character archetype instead of being forced into a limited list of predetermined archetypes.

*Some Class-Like Restrictions*
That said, I've found I actually do enjoy working within the limits of a class-based system to see what kind of build combinations I can make.  In a skill-based system, if two abilities synergize with one another, you can just get them both.  In a class-based system, it's not that simple, and getting one ability will necessarily lock you out of other things.  I think the best way to approach this is with something similar to Vampire: the Masquerade and its vampiric disciplines.  Your choice of vampire clan determines which disciplines are available to you from the start, some disciplines are harder to find if you don't start with them, and some disciplines are mutually exclusive.  Even D&D is kind of like this, as everyone has access to all types of ability checks, which covers the things a normal person would be able to do, while class features are more "extra" (not necessarily supernatural, but it's what makes a Fighter more than just a guy with a sword).

I've considered a few systems.  GURPS seems to be overly complex and yet oversimple, with hundreds of skills yet only four main attributes (only two of which are used for skills).  A while back I though Fudge might be the answer, but Fudge isn't a complete system, and the finished systems built on top of it seem to hail from an older time when TTRPGs were still doing needlessly complex things when they didn't need to.  I remember looking at Savage Worlds, and I don't exactly remember why it didn't click with me; maybe it was too heavily oriented around combat, or it was limited to a specific style of play (action movie?).

Are there any systems that check all these boxes?

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## Rynjin

Final Fantasy d6 is technically not "generic" (see the name) but can be easily fitted to do basically anything, just like the property it's based on.

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## GentlemanVoodoo

Perhaps something that uses the Powered by the Apocalypse system? Its been ages since I last picked that up but I remember there were a lot of "hacks" people used to do a lot of things. Only thing else that comes to mind is perhaps Fate.

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## Telok

Basic Role Play, BRP. Its the system CoC is based on. Has some class-like options, skill based, simple. Pick up and old cheap used copy of CoC and you have nearly all the rules, can drop the horror bits no problem. There are several splats/variants for magic & fantasy.

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## Cactus

I suggest you look at the WOiN (What's Old is New) family of games. 

There are no classes in the D&D sense. Instead characters progress through careers that provide a bundle of stat increases, skills and talents. Any of these improvements can also be bought individually with XP but careers are the more cost effective way to advance. It's very easy to homebrew your own careers to suit your setting or player wants.

The basic mechanic for resolution is to gather a pool of d6 based on a combination of attribute and skill and try to roll a total higher than the difficulty. Bonuses for gear, talents, environment etc. add dice to the pool before rolling, penalties remove dice.

It also has a very exciting way of handling serious injury. When reduced to zero hit points a character rolls their Endurance dice pool and removes any dice that show a 6. They do this each round on their turn, without replacing lost dice, and if the pool is reduced to no dice before they are stabilised by first aid the character dies.

The ruleset has been adapted to a variety of periods and technology levels with a large online resource of gear and NPCs.

My only gripe is that lists of skills and their definitions are quite loose. Players are expected to be proposing skills that might not be defined. This permits a lot of freedom with character builds but does require GM input to adjudicate overlapping skills and ensure you don't end up with some skills being applied very narrowly while others are extremely broad.

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## Anonymouswizard

Honestly the various Storyteller-based games aren't a bad shout on this regard. The split into five rough categories:
Storyteller, considering you brought up VtM I presume yours familiarish with it. Downsides include not really having much support outside of the 'modetn day' and 'datk ages' periods.Revised Storyteller, i.e. Trinity 1e, Exalted, and Scion 1e. Somewhat more streamlined than original Storyteller, but more action focused and everything's its own gameline.Storytelling: the revised system for the nWoD, it's rules are a lot better and there's actually a generic core rulebook! But it's also focused almost entirely on modern day games, with a bunch who f historical settings and brief pdfs for cyberpunk and space opera.Storypath: the system behind Trinity 2e, Scion 2e, and They Came From Beneath The Sea! It's a streamlined and reworked Storytelling, but each game has it's rules differing slightly. Trinity 2e is the crunchiest, with different 'classes' of powered characters having different powers and some (like Talents and Psion's) having further divisions, but there's still no core rulebook that lets you do everything (with Trinity 2e's core being the closest, but you won't be piloting starships or casting spells).Whatever on earth is going on with WoD5. I don't know, Reckoning 2e was missing half it's rules and everything is becoming more and more focused.

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## Pauly

Basic Action Games use a system very similar to your listed requirements.
Their main system is BASH, which is a super heroes game, but they have fantasy and sci-fi versions of the rules.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/..._0&src=fid2140

They also have a more detailed version of their system in _Honor + Intrigue_ a 3 Musketeers setting, which Ive played and enjoyed. Im homebrewing an Edo era Japan version of H+I and Im finding homebrewing the system to be easy and fun.

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## Thane of Fife

> They also have a more detailed version of their system in _Honor + Intrigue_ a 3 Musketeers setting, which Ive played and enjoyed. Im homebrewing an Edo era Japan version of H+I and Im finding homebrewing the system to be easy and fun.


_Honor and Intrigue_ is a version of the _Barbarians of Lemuria_ system; while it's published by the same company that publishes BASH, I don't think it's mechanically related (though I admit that I'm not terribly familiar with BASH).

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## Duiker

If you want a challenge, check out Cortex Prime. It's basically a system for building a system. It has a simple core mechanic, and then a suite of "mods" with which you change the feel of the system. So you might use Affiliations instead of Attributes, or Virtues, or Relationships.

Best place for information on it, after the website, is probably its Discord.

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## Pauly

> _Honor and Intrigue_ is a version of the _Barbarians of Lemuria_ system; while it's published by the same company that publishes BASH, I don't think it's mechanically related (though I admit that I'm not terribly familiar with BASH).


Correct. BoL and BASH share some family similarities, but are different engines.

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## Witty Username

> Basic Role Play, BRP. Its the system CoC is based on. Has some class-like options, skill based, simple. Pick up and old cheap used copy of CoC and you have nearly all the rules, can drop the horror bits no problem. There are several splats/variants for magic & fantasy.


I have heard good things about the Pulp Chultuhu mod, it is designed to give a more action genre to the Call of Chultuhu ruleset, that is probably a good way to get a bunch of flexibility out of the system.
--
I have picked up a few very light rulesets, Solar Blades and Cosmic Spells comes to mind, class based instead of skill based but the classes are more a collection of starting abilities to convey an archetype, and all rolls are based on a ability check system (4 attributes) and you get better at those by raising those attributes.
It is designed for Sci Fi (or more accurately Future Fantasy), but is pretty hackable. It has as I recall two sister games, Sharp Swords and Sinister Spells which is a High Fantasy game, and Dark Streets and Darker Secrets which is more Urban Fantasy Horror, but are essentially the same game systems.

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## Greywander

I probably should have mentioned this, but I'm less interested in narrative play and more interested in the simulation of the fantasy world and playing Combat as War.  I took a brief look at Cortex Prime and I can't help but be leery of their "Plot Points", which seem like they'd play hell on Combat as War (though the website didn't seem to do a good job of explaining exactly what they do).  It's not a bad mechanic, but it feels like something more for people who want to feel like they're in a movie.  I want to feel like I'm in a real fantasy world, not some scripted movie.  Does that make sense?

I think a mechanic like that could also make sense for DM-less play.  Since there are so many more people who want to play than who want to DM, I've given some thought into how you could play without a DM, which would likely entail splitting the DM's duties among the whole table and off-loading some thing to random generation (e.g. "story cards" that contain story elements like a person or location).  Plot Points as a currency to influence the story when it isn't "your turn" to control the scene could make sense.  But that's a whole other topic.

I'll have to look more into BASH and the Storyteller line (and I think Cortex Prime deserves me digging a bit deeper, too).  I could maybe see tinkering with something like V:tM, but I feel like I'd end up with essentially a homebrew system by the time I was done anyway.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make more sense to start with designing an original system and then adapting things I like from V:tM or other systems into it, instead of starting with one of those systems and mutating it into something else.

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## False God

> I probably should have mentioned this, but I'm less interested in narrative play and more interested in the simulation of the fantasy world and playing Combat as War.  I took a brief look at Cortex Prime and I can't help but be leery of their "Plot Points", which seem like they'd play hell on Combat as War (though the website didn't seem to do a good job of explaining exactly what they do).  It's not a bad mechanic, but it feels like something more for people who want to feel like they're in a movie.  I want to feel like I'm in a real fantasy world, not some scripted movie.  Does that make sense?
> 
> I think a mechanic like that could also make sense for DM-less play.  Since there are so many more people who want to play than who want to DM, I've given some thought into how you could play without a DM, which would likely entail splitting the DM's duties among the whole table and off-loading some thing to random generation (e.g. "story cards" that contain story elements like a person or location).  Plot Points as a currency to influence the story when it isn't "your turn" to control the scene could make sense.  But that's a whole other topic.
> 
> I'll have to look more into BASH and the Storyteller line (and I think Cortex Prime deserves me digging a bit deeper, too).  I could maybe see tinkering with something like V:tM, but I feel like I'd end up with essentially a homebrew system by the time I was done anyway.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make more sense to start with designing an original system and then adapting things I like from V:tM or other systems into it, instead of starting with one of those systems and mutating it into something else.


You might try looking into some mini-based wargames then.

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## Easy e

A common theme I see is people who want to play wargames, playing RPGs and vice versa.  


However, I encourage you to continue down your journey of homebrewing and see where it leads you.  I always find the trip very interesting, and the actual outcome not always where I expected it to go.

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## kyoryu

Fate Core with Mantles from Dresden Files Accelerated.

Even without the Mantles, the Fate skill pyramid inherently builds in some restrictions.

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## D&D_Fan

This is a real pickle.

D&D/5E/3.5E/Pathfinder-like systems - It's simple (Relatively), and it's extensively able to be modified, but it's designed with class-like systems in place. You can mod D&D like systems to not use classes. I've seen this before. But it's very different.

One example I can think of is RPGstuck 3E, which has an 'echeladder' system and you can select new skills and paths but there aren't mechanical classes, at least not until the 'God Tier' which is a fun bit of flexibility. Unfortunately, RPGstuck is nowhere near as moddable and extremely designed for one specific setting: Homestuck. Homestuck, Homestuck, Homestuck. It's also so different as to mean learning a new system entirely.

One system that I enjoy is just "general online setting-based RP" where there are multiple factions, characters and channels, NPCs, events, and monsters, but you need a few hundred people for those to be fun, and there aren't really many stats or skills besides what you write in the character description. It's infinitely moddable and setting variable but skills are not numbered. Dice rolls may still feature for chance happenings, and levels may exist for access to info and equipment, or at least more privileges.

my expertise is really just in D&D and D&D derivatives, and also in online RP. Only other RPG I've played extensively is Empire! which is basically play by post 4X game. I won once. Fun stuff. But it's not on an individual scale. Each round is several years, and you also need 2040 players, and you rule a kingdom for about a century. It takes about a year or more of real time to finish a game. Great stuff, but not relevant. If someone could mod it to be run as a regular adventuring RPG, I wouldn't doubt it. It has 5 stats, and stat based actions with dice roles. Movement rules. It'd be janky, but who knows. Very skill based. No classes. Moddable. Simple-ish, variety of setting. Hey, who knows.

I guess I don't know much about generic games, but if this is helpful for what not to play, that might be a service as well.

Someone mentioned Powered By the Apocalypse. I'm just gonna bump that one. I played it once or twice. It was alright. d6 based system I think. Still has a lot of class-based stuff in the versions I played, but it can be modded a lot, so I'm sure a classless system is totally possible.

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## Anonymouswizard

> I I'll have to look more into BASH and the Storyteller line (and I think Cortex Prime deserves me digging a bit deeper, too).  I could maybe see tinkering with something like V:tM, but I feel like I'd end up with essentially a homebrew system by the time I was done anyway.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make more sense to start with designing an original system and then adapting things I like from V:tM or other systems into it, instead of starting with one of those systems and mutating it into something else.


Just to clarify, VtM is the original Storyteller game. Storyteller through the first edition of Storytelling (new World of Darkness) are, despite the names, pretty traditional in what they simulate. Storytelling 2e (Chronicles of Darkness) and Storypath are more aimed at narrative emulation, but don't really emulate arcs that well (Storytelling 2e is more about encouraging the dramatically appropriate resolution of a [thing]).

If you want to look into them more either the new World of Darkness or Chronicles of Darkness books plus World of Darkness: Mirrors and the two Mirrors pdf supplements (Infinite Macabre and Bleeding Edge) might be your best bet. I like Trinity 2e, but it's never going to have any kind of generic genre supplements so you'd have to either do the work yourself, import stuff from CofD, or pull rules but not fluff from the settings.

Maybe the new Storypath Ultra rules will actually give a generic rulebook. Who knows, it's probably more profitable for Onyx Path to stay with their current approach.

Which is a big downside, Storytelling 1e is kind of the only version that got any kind of official support for a large variety of settings. The Trinity version of Storypath is getting closer, but it's split over many books each packed with setting information (and there's no 'magic', so you'd have to either make it yourself or use the Nova rules).

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## kyoryu

> Someone mentioned Powered By the Apocalypse. I'm just gonna bump that one. I played it once or twice. It was alright. d6 based system I think. Still has a lot of class-based stuff in the versions I played, but it can be modded a lot, so I'm sure a classless system is totally possible.


PbtA is _not_ generic.  It's a rules "concept" if you will (not even a generic system) that people have _adapted_ to quite a number of genres.

If there's a PbtA game that fits a genre you want to play (and it's often not just genre, but specific takes on the genre), it's a great game.  Otherwise, it's basically making your own game from scratch.

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## Greywander

> You might try looking into some mini-based wargames then.





> A common theme I see is people who want to play wargames, playing RPGs and vice versa.


Combat as War actually has almost nothing to do with wargaming.  Rather, Combat as War is in contrast to Combat as Sport.  In Combat as Sport, every fight is expected to be balanced to be a fair challenge for the players, neither too weak nor too strong.  Each fight is meant to be a test of the players' mastery of the rules, and there's typically a constant escalation where the DM keeps raising the difficulty of the encounters to challenge the players without defeating them.  Basically, every fight is a fair fight, and the players are always expected to win, if not easily.

Combat as War is more about treating the world as a living, breathing place, where fighting is dangerous and a fair fight is to be avoided at all costs.  If you walk into a dragon's lair at 1st level, don't expect the dragon to be scaled down for your level.  If you attack an orc camp, the orcs aren't going to organize themselves into groups of 4 to 6 orcs and attack you in waves, they're going to all rush you at once.  However, this goes both ways, and the players can take down a threat far above their weight class by getting creative and using dirty tricks.  Poisoning the water supply, setting tents on fire, using hit and run tactics, luring wild animals into the orc camp, etc.  The only time you should be engaging the enemy directly is when the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.

As someone who is more of a Simulationist, it should be obvious why I favor Combat as War over Combat as Sport.  I want the world to feel like a real place.  However, Combat as War treats fighting as extremely dangerous, so it tends to be the last resort when you have no other options.  But in a wargame, fighting is the only thing you do.  Wargames also tend to involve entire armies, not individual adventurers, and often don't have rules for other things that adventurers do, let alone the more broader "generic universal" things I'm looking for.  I don't expect 40k has rules for running a potion shop or dealing with court intrigue.

Something else of note here is that Combat as War tends to imply a highly lethal combat system.  Systems where it's hard to die and easy to heal aren't really amenable to Combat as War, as fights are generally much safer.  That doesn't mean PCs need to die in one hit, just that they need to be wary of the possibility of death if they're not cautious.  Combat as War can still be applicable to a system like D&D, it just doesn't have quite as much impact since combat doesn't carry quite the same risk as something like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.  And sometimes I do want to feel more like a superhero, so there's a balance to be struck where combat is dangerous enough you want to avoid it but not so dangerous you can't be a badass should it come to it.  I expect a system could have a way of tuning this within the same system, tuning your character between a normal person and supersoldier.




> However, I encourage you to continue down your journey of homebrewing and see where it leads you.  I always find the trip very interesting, and the actual outcome not always where I expected it to go.


This might be my best option, though it is a lonely one.  I have some thoughts for an original system, as well as a heavily modded D&D 5e.  The latter seems like a waste when I could be writing the system I actually want, but I legitimately believe the 5e overhaul has some good ideas that deserve to be seen to fruition.  So I'm not sure which to pursue for now.




> One example I can think of is RPGstuck 3E, which has an 'echeladder' system and you can select new skills and paths but there aren't mechanical classes, at least not until the 'God Tier' which is a fun bit of flexibility. Unfortunately, RPGstuck is nowhere near as moddable and extremely designed for one specific setting: Homestuck. Homestuck, Homestuck, Homestuck. It's also so different as to mean learning a new system entirely.


That reminds me, I still haven't finished reading Homestuck, even after all this time.  I just feel like it became less interesting as most of the questions were answered and mysteries solved as the story moved into its finale.  I think I'd still like to see someone attempt an online game that is based off of Sburb, could be fun.  Someone should also write up stats for the Wrinklef***er as a magic item, just for the luls.




> One system that I enjoy is just "general online setting-based RP" where there are multiple factions, characters and channels, NPCs, events, and monsters, but you need a few hundred people for those to be fun, and there aren't really many stats or skills besides what you write in the character description. It's infinitely moddable and setting variable but skills are not numbered. Dice rolls may still feature for chance happenings, and levels may exist for access to info and equipment, or at least more privileges.


This sounds pretty close to free-form roleplay, which is specifically a roleplaying game but without the game.  The only rules relate to player etiquette, not what your character can or can't do.  And that's fine for people who don't need rules to have fun roleplaying, but I do really enjoy the mechanical aspect of RPGs.  I'd rather experience the narrative through the mechanics, e.g. actually desperately trying to win an impossible fight instead of just narrating how much my character is struggling when I could just say that they're not.




> Reckoning 2e was missing half it's rules and everything is becoming more and more focused.


Somewhat recently I was looking at a system called 7th Sea.  My sister and I were going to play it together, but it never panned out.  I thought the core resolution mechanic was kind of interesting, but I was otherwise unimpressed.  The system as a whole seemed more narrative-focused, to the point that it just seemed to be missing rules for half of the things I was expecting to be there.  For example, there are no rules for equipment.  There are also no rules for obtaining a ship (except for a perk you can purchase with XP that just gives you a ship), and while there are different ships to choose from the differences are all cosmetic; all ships are mechanically identical.  As should be obvious from the name, 7th Sea is a high seas Age of Discovery setting.  It was baffling that they were missing so many critical rules and subsystems that you would need for a high seas campaign.

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## Easy e

Whatever you want, as they are your preferences.  

I would still strongly encourage you to continue home brewing to get the game experience you want, as only you know exactly what you want.

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## Satinavian

> Combat as War actually has almost nothing to do with wargaming.


I think the suggestion was more about "game playable without a GM". That is kinda rare. And if you do want the system to give plot promts, "story cards" or anything similar, you won't find that for a general and universal system either.


So i don't think what you want does exist.

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## Greywander

> I think the suggestion was more about "game playable without a GM". That is kinda rare. And if you do want the system to give plot promts, "story cards" or anything similar, you won't find that for a general and universal system either.
> 
> 
> So i don't think what you want does exist.


No, I said "plot points" were something I _didn't_ think I wanted.  The ability to influence the narrative by adding, removing, or changing details is interesting, but it's better for games where the focus is more on the collaborative storytelling aspect.  Here, the players are taking actions specifically because it makes for a more interesting story, which is totally fine but not really my preferred style of play.

I'd say I'm primarily a Simulationist, and secondarily a Gamist, so my perspective is that the rules are a best attempt to simulate the world.  I want my goals as a player to align with my character's goals, so the idea of spending a plot point to make my PC's life harder simply because it makes for a better story doesn't make much sense to me.  Conversely, the temptation to spend plot points to give myself an advantage and make it easier for my player to accomplish their goals would always be there, and that's not really fun either.  The Gamist side of me wants to _win_, but the Simulationist side of me chafes at using such an artificial meta currency to benefit my character in a way that makes no sense from within the confines of the game world.  Oh, I just _happened_ to find XYZ, or get saved by ABC, or stumble across PQR, _again_, isn't that awfully convenient?  Suspiciously so, in fact.  Such a thing would take me out of the immersion.

Now, if it's just rerolling a failed ability check or something, then I'm fine with that.  "Hero points" as a limited number of free rerolls makes sense as it frames your character as a cut above normal people.  They're not _that_ much stronger, but they do seem to succeed at tasks slightly more often, especially critical tasks under pressure.  That sort of heroic spirit is what makes them worthy of being a PC.  This doesn't break immersion nearly as much as outright manipulating story elements.

What I was saying was that the only time I might actually want "plot points" is _if_ I were to do DM-less play.  Turning shared DM responsibilities split among the players into a sort of meta-game, where they're spending "plot points" to override story elements or playing "story cards" to create new parts of the story seems like the best way to do it.  Make it _fun_, rather than a chore, an interactive play between the players instead of just each player taking turns being in total control.  But that's a completely separate issue, and was just some idle musing on my part, and my default expectation would be to be playing with a normal DM where it would be a nonissue.

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## Grod_The_Giant

Perhaps you'd enjoy the generic rules-light system I wrote a while back, STaRS?  It took a fair bit of influence from Fate and its ilk, but I deliberately didn't use metagame mechanics like "plot points."

Player characters have 10 ability scores, each ranked 1-10, and the core mechanic is "roll 1d10 and try to get under your skill rank."  Your character probably has some skills that give bonuses for certain narrower uses (ie, "Intellect: Engineering"), and might have some powers that let you use an ability score in new ways.  NPCs are mostly just a health bar and a set of modifiers-- an orc might grant a bonus to players trying to trick them with social skills, but impose a penalty on anyone trying to wrestle him, for example.

When you want to go beyond basic ability checks, there's a generic "conflict" engine that can be used for any sort of dramatic scene-- characters can attempt to Overcome the challenge, Complicate the opposition's actions, or Aid their ally's actions, but what those all mean varies depending on the type of scene going on.  There are discussions and examples about using it for things like social influence, investigations, set-piece action sequences, and so on.

You're highly encouraged to modify the system to taste--there's a section that specifically goes over ways you can easily tinker with the mechanics, before presenting a bunch of optional rules and systems.  The game is generally simple enough that you easily twist it into a new shape.

---

The potential downside is that the mechanics are focused entirely on how _player_ characters interact with the world; PC-verses-PC and NPC-verses-NPC interactions aren't really covered by the main rules.  There's a section in the optional extras chapter about PvP, but for NPCs I basically just waved my hands and said "if the players aren't involved there's no point in rolling it out; whatever the GM wants to happen happens."  That said, it would be easy enough to jot down PC-style stats for one faction and play the encounter out normally.

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## Witty Username

If you don't mind being in Warhammer 40k, Dark Herasy and Rogue Trader are pretty good for sandbox games. Both are in the "normal" human chuck of the setting, and are focused on investigation into threats to the Imperium and galactic exploration respectively. For Dark Herasy, set the game on a planet or system with wide spread corruption(figurative or literal) and let the players make conflict. For Rogue Trader, go find stuff, loot ancient civilizations or claim valuable planets for colonies and get into trouble with all manner of alien monsters and rival crews.

Oh, and there is Black Crusade, if you dont mind the playgroup being a bunch of insane murder hobos.

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## Satinavian

> No, I said "plot points" were something I _didn't_ think I wanted.  The ability to influence the narrative by adding, removing, or changing details is interesting, but it's better for games where the focus is more on the collaborative storytelling aspect.  Here, the players are taking actions specifically because it makes for a more interesting story, which is totally fine but not really my preferred style of play.


I did not write "plot points", i wrote plot _prompts_, and named story cards as an example.

See, i am also mostly into simulalation and i certainly not trying to sell you narrative games. But you won't find "story cards" that are not based on a setting and still make sense. Finding a system for DM-less play that is also universal and works for simulation is pretty much impossible. such a thing does not exist.


If you give up on GM-less, there are options. But it is still hard to fullfill all of your other points at once. Most of my preferred systems are not generic. All of the classless systems i find elegant, don't use class restrictions through the backdoor. "Moddable" is always in the eye of the beholder. And you probably only consider options available in English. So i can't really help you, every option coming to mind fails at one point or another. I mean you could probably do Savage World, but that is not really very good for simulation or CaW. It can do pulpy action.

For example, my favourite system is Splittermond. Certainly elegent, able to do simulation with enough rules outside of combat without getting unwieldy and skill based. But that's it. It is not generic. And while you cold use it for other settings, it is for Fantasy and the magic system is integral enough that it is hard to rip out or to replace with another one. Many aspects are easily moddable but you should stay in the provided framework. It is classless and has no class restrictions through a backdoor. So, overall it would not match your requirements. Like every other system i know.

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## animorte

I started talking about Worlds Without Number a while back. That may be something worth note. Its a fairly basic system that _does_ have 3 different classes (any two of which can be combined), but everything about the design is very customizable.
You choose whatever skills you want and that determines how you play the game, in and out of combat.Everything functions in scenes and uses that terminology to approach how skills function during encounters.Magic is fairly low-mid powered, but there are so many options, it really doesnt feel _magic-light_.The class tells how much HP you will level with (two different classes combined always choose the higher value) and slight difference in number of skills.The word skills includes literally everything except magic, though a couple are still magic relevant.




> No, I said "plot points" were something I _didn't_ think I wanted.  The ability to influence the narrative by adding, removing, or changing details is interesting, but it's better for games where the focus is more on the collaborative storytelling aspect.


Theres a link somewhere on this site in which somebody feels *very* strongly against the perceived idea of collaborative story-telling.




> Perhaps you'd enjoy the generic rules-light system I wrote a while back, STaRS?


I was waiting on you to show up!  :Small Big Grin:

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## Grod_The_Giant

> I was waiting on you to show up!


In my defense, I have a pretty high size penalty to stealth checks.

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## animorte

> In my defense, I have a pretty high size penalty to stealth checks.


Username checks out!

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## Theodoxus

Grey, I'm in pretty much the exact same boat. I've stolen concepts from so many games, micro systems, mostly, I'm having fun and frustration trying to settle them into something playable. My biggest problem is lack of players willing to try it out... my players either want D&D 5E only, or the two that are willing to try something else want an existing system like Savage Worlds or Champions. I have one player who doesn't want to learn anything new - and doesn't really grok 5E that well to begin with... so, I have a lot of theorycrafting, but nothing tangible.

I've basically thrown up my hands and just decided that my life will forever be tied to the almighty d20 and simplistic rule adjudication and those freakin' 6 attributes.

The best I've done for my own sanity is incorporate a lot of my subsystems into my NPCs. Sometimes the players are interested in trying out a subsystem too - other times they're just happy to let the NPCs suffer... It's not as satisfying as using an integrated whole, but it at least scratches the itch.

I hope you find what you're after... it's definitely in the 'pretty pink unicorn' arena.

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