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2010-12-11, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Ok, critique:
- First off, before I even hit the spoiler button to look at the monster, the formatting of the post bugs me. Text at the beginning unrelated to the monster entry (where any player using the creature would have to look at/past it every time they visited), the centered & colored monster name where we don't tend to do that, the lack of an image to make the creature stand out on the page, it just doesn't work in your favor. Stick to general formatting conventions, pretty please.
- If you're using outsider type, you should state the native plane.
- "If you would acquire equipment that takes up the same slot, you can wear that equipment in the same slot with no problem." - This is confusingly worded. I initially read it as "You can wear 3 helmets in the head slot".
- You refer to a Catapsi, but I have no clue what this is. You need to be clearer on this point, and/or less specific to encompass a broader array of situations.
- Fly speed at 1st level is insanely broken. This runs against standards set out in this thread (wherein flight comes at 4th level at the earliest, and only in extreme cases. 5th level is typical.
- Ego whip is potentially gamebreaking, as many monsters have very low charisma. Other monsters have dealt with the issue of int damage being very powerful at low levels, as well, so compare to those. Stygian dragon comes to mind, but not sure if it was properly fixed. I typically wash my hands of all things dragon.
- Faint sign of binding - you spelled conscious wrong. The note of having to put in constant effort is weird - either state how this works mechanically (concentration check?) or scrap the fluff. As is, it's an annoying restriction on the player where the player has to stress to his DM every round that he's putting in the effort, or screw over his group.
- Psionic Buffer is flat out broken. Consider the effect with a PC group of 4 Pandorym, or a PC group of 3 psionic characters and a Pandorym. Buffer is the wrong word for this kind of effect, as well (buffer means to ward against, to prevent, to block or absorb. You want something more like leech).
- "You are a single minded creature, to be honest. Not stupid, but very stubborn. In fact, your mind can be described as 7 shades that glow within your crystalline prison." - This is... abstract. Not a fan of this flavor text.
- Please, please, please state the level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to skim through Red color of the mind, acid orange mind, moderate psionic binding, 3rd color of the mind and to have to constantly scroll back up to check when the ability is gained, to gauge appropriate balance.
- Psionic Leech (ah, you did use that term, buffer is still wrong though) is going to screw over other psionic party members.
- Come to think of it, you're benefiting (PPwise) and/or screwing over yourself (making manifesting more expensive), since there's nothing about being able to turn it off, and it doesn't specify that the ability doesn't affect you.
- No save 'can't use conjuration' in Strong Sign of Binding is too powerful. Fix.
- As I read through the 6th and 7th colors of the mind, it strikes me you've made a psion that's potentially more powerful than a psion, even with the -3 manifester level. Lots of SLAs, general passives and a flood of PP through buffer/leech on top of manifesting as a psion.
- 6th color of the mind needs a 'save once to be immune' ruling, or you've got opponents saving 50 times in a single combat, until they inevitably fail.
- 7th color of the mind is too powerful, given how high the save is liable to be (see below) and the effect.
- As I read it, the Pandorym has no reason to stack much beyond Int - maybe some dex/con/wis for saves/ac, but even so. Everything works off int (manifesting, all saves, damage, etc). This creature becomes an absolute monster with stacked Int (tomes, headband, ioun stone, fox's cunning, etc). It's an SAD class, and that needs to change.
- Overwhelming sign of binding is a little much, even for a 20th level capstone. Again, screws over your allies.
Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-11 at 04:12 PM.
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2010-12-11, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Ah, so it was Pandorym that was broken, not Swarmshifter. Right, mega edit, here we come. And I thought the pic was stretching the page. No, it's just my laptop is wacked. Delightful.
Also, what shall I base the saves off? There's not much else to Pandorym except him massive mind. WIS? CHA?Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 04:31 PM.
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2010-12-11, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Could be swarmshifter is Überbroken too. I just haven't looked at it.
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2010-12-11, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
............Your scaring me!
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2010-12-11, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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2010-12-11, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Right, Pandorym has been toned down and sorted out. Must remember to change things when copypasta-ing from Word. Also, don't bother taking down the WereElemental, because what's done is done, and there's no point wasting your time. Just try to be a bit more logical with what Were____ you pick next time
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2010-12-11, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-11, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Where's the changelog for Pandorym fixes/nerfs/buffs? Can't tell what you've altered, Geck.
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2010-12-11, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
@Rumel
Ideas? Sure. Just don't expect them to be any good
1st, the Ability should say WereScorpion Level +.......blah blah..
It's got Entomanothrope in green, so that needs to change.
2nd, it says it gains a poison dealing.....blah blah blah....
I'm not sure what it should be though. Poison attack? An attack that poisons the target dealing ___ damage......blah blah blah......
3rd, that 1st level looks awfully top heavy........
EDIT: Changelog on Pandorym has been fixed. My Laptop is slow today, so it's eating my posts all the geckoing time.Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 05:16 PM.
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2010-12-11, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
- Post format still bugs me. Creature name & image are centered, which goes against convention & looks ugly on high resolution viewing.
- You've still got flight speed at 1st level, which still breaks the game. Lack of fine manipulation helps balance this out, but as a 'caster', you're still capable of flying above the battlefield & doing your thing while remaining largely untouchable.
- "If you would acquire equipment that takes up a similar slot as something you can wear, you can wear that equipment in the appropriate slot with no problem." - reads awkwardly. Needs polish.
- "And lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects." - I still have no idea what this means. Clarify?
- Warp Jump - reading this, I don't like how it enhances your mobility. You're capable of boosting your mobility to ridiculous extremes (Giving yourself potentially 230' movement at level 20, effectively taking you out of the battlefield in a bad spot).
- Ego Whiplash remains a fairly powerful, spammable option. Figure at level 5 you've got 15 whiplashes, or 3-4 per encounter. It lets you attack Cha against any opponent who is too tough to take down with hp damage, and take down many high CR foes with 1-2 casts, no sweat (say, a CR12 elder black pudding).
- The added -1 to manifest metacreativity isn't that big a drawback, as I understand it, since you still cast perfectly well outside that discipline. Correct me if I'm wrong (psionics is not my strong suit), but you can just pick powers outside of metacreativity, so you're only really suffering a drawback in selection, (still).
- The various signs of binding really need to be condensed & made more intuitive. As is, each entry for the ability is really dense & complicated. Each added level should be one or two sentences long, as far as expanding on it, not 6+ lines.
- Acid Orange Mind is kinda weird in how it works, since not everyone who uses a mind affecting power on you is necessarily linking their mind to you. A rogue uses a wand of confusion... they take wis damage? It doesn't make sense.
- Not terribly familiar with psionic focus and the ins and outs (don't like psions, personally, and don't tend to have many in my games), but I should caution you that 3rd color of the mind, by making something (versatile, as it links to many feats) require less of an investment in the overall action economy... well, it's dangerous. Think it through very, very carefully.
- Intellect fortress vs. divine spells is kinda useless, since divine magic is pretty notorious for having little in the way of damage dealing.
- The global no-save lowering of caster level for divine casters is a bit much. Consider that you're pretty much pitting yourself, a caster type, against effectively gimped divine casters. Sure, many of their buffs are pre-combat, but even so, you're a psion-3 that (starting at 15th level) is turning all divine casters into caster-4.
- You may mean one day per HD, under Turquoise Tyrant.
- Indigo insanity pretty much screws over any recurring villains your DM throws at you, since they're effectively ruined if they lose one save. Almost more so than death.
- "At 19th level, you become a mine made solid. You become THE mind made solid, and you’re hungry!" - non sequitor, you use 'mine' instead of 'mind', flavor text is iffy.
- I don't like the -2 cost in pp. It's, RAW, potentially abusable (free low cost powers? Potentially spammable?)
- The "Any manifester" thing in Psionic Black Hole (Perhaps rename to Psionic Vacuum?) could screw over you or your group.
- What's up with the d7 in Purple Punishment? Do they even make those?
- The Overwhelming sign of binding is still totally over the top in terms of what it does. How would you react, as a 20th level PC in a typical group, if I just plopped one down in the campaign world somewhere, as an encounter I planned to use against you in 5-10 sessions?
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2010-12-11, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Right, before I start, it's not very easy to balance this monster, because trust me, this is a MAJOR downgrade from the normal Pandorym Aspect that's in Elder Evils (Full Psion Casting! Full Divine Shutdown!) Not much of an excuse, but still.
The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.
I'll try to reword that item bit. Wording stuff isn't my forte.
Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.
Warp Jump - I shall try something better.
Ego Whiplash - Seeing as it is a bit spammable, i'll make it pay PP for it.
I'm sticking with the penalty to Metacreativity, because like you said, it limits Pandoryrm's manifesting a bit.
Orange Mind - That can be solved by fluff.
Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.
The rest, i'll get to. Just let me shove some tissues up my nose to stop the nosebleeds I keep getting
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2010-12-11, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Right, but to be fair, you were asking for a pretty extensive design process when you decided to tackle an epic creature.
The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.
Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.
Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.
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2010-12-11, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
I set up a Thread for the WereWight Here:
call me Dragon
I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.
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2010-12-11, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
@Hyudra
Psions utterly hurt the action economy if given half a chance anyway, but you have a point. And the Overwhelming Sign arrvives about the same time when it appears in an Elder Evil campaign when your fighting Pandorym. But i'll nerf it, methinks.
And what's wrong with Indigo Insanity? By the time Pandorym gets it, the BBEG could of been sent insane/disintergrated/scrambled/Baleful Polymorphed loads of times. It's not beyond the DM to fudge the roll if he wants to, or better yet, adapt;
Spoiler"Ahahahaha! My Indigo Insanity has driven the High Priest MAAAAAAD!"
DM: The Cleric twitches and writhes and hits a demonic lamp. Now, you have a Hellfire flaming Cleric of Nerull approaching. Good luck.Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 07:25 PM.
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2010-12-11, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Originally Posted by Dragon O Fundeath
Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing
Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing
That's the mechanical issue. In terms of the health of the game, it will derail any plans your DM has of having any recurring villains. That's just a pain.
And your 'adaptation' you list isn't very effective. A foe who loses over half his actions and can't effectively implement strategy is pretty much a defeated foe. Your flaming cleric of Nerull isn't any more threatening.
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2010-12-11, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
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2010-12-11, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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2010-12-11, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Fine. They only go mad for 5 rounds.
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2010-12-11, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Ok, so now it's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problems lie with the action economy, the ambiguity of it (what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.
A step forward.
Others are welcome to chime in, by the way. High/epic levels aren't my forte, nor are psions, so I freely admit I'm not the best person to review this thing.Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-11 at 08:27 PM.
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2010-12-11, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Well, i've got one other option, but it's wierd. I shall see what I can do.
Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 08:31 PM.
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2010-12-12, 12:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
So long as it's pretty much your only schtick, that kind of thing is okay- it's just a gaze attack, that's it. A good balancing point is the marraenoloth- that's the quickest anything should get no-action save-or-loses, because really, that's pretty much just what the marraenoloth does.
Now, for indigo insanity, I'm going to disagree with Hyudra and say it's not a problem. A wizard can do that with a quickened confusion at level 15, and that's a mediocre choice. As is, it's actually a little underwhelming for an 18th level ability.
I'd do something interesting with it like increase it to a standard action and either let it affect creatures immune to mind-affecting or remove the save. This is level 18 we're talking about, after all, where even tier 2's are breaking reality over their legs. 'Course, if you're going to do what I suggested, might be best to switch it with the capstone- that's an army annihilating ability right there.
If anyone thinks that's iffy, I'll point you to the fact that even a core bard- a high tier 4- can do that before 18th level. Irresistible dance.Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-12 at 12:49 AM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-12-12, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
I've thought about it, and I think I know what to do. Anyway, could you lot have a look at the Umber Hulk and see if it's OK? It seems to have gotten lost in all of this, and that was a cool class to make.
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2010-12-12, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Ehh, we're kind of backed up with unfinished classes at the moment. There are tons. Personally, I know I'm getting close to it as I'm working my way down the list. We should be critiquing quicker/more often, to be honest. That's not to say less detailed critiques, but let's try to take a look, right?
Another thing is it seems that a lot of critiquers suffer from one-look syndrome. You give the class one critique, and then after the homebrewer makes changes according to the critique, you never look it over again, you never give it your nomination. Do so!
Anyway, here's a critique of the Grell.
Overall looks good! I have one more idea, but I have to get going, so I'll mention it later.Full Homebrew List
New Homebrew:
Auran Pirate, a sailor who engraves their ship with powerful runes and creates a vessel to be remembered.
Many thanks to Qwernt for my amazing mind flayer avatar!
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2010-12-12, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
... Editing most of those, but I went to look up whether grell can speak - they can be wizards, so it seems like they should be able to - it turns out their speech is really complicated. Like being able to talk to each other within 60' with electrical-only speech, imperceptible to most things.
They can speak, though. Just their native tongue that's complicated.
Erm, as far as grellcraft reach weapons, the only one-handed weapon I'm aware of with reach is the whip. Which is unusual in other ways, too...
Also, I'm going to nominate the Thorn.Last edited by Kajhera; 2010-12-12 at 09:50 AM.
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2010-12-12, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Since my wereremorhaz isn't going to be critiqued, could someone look over my Gibbering Mouther?
Celestia Moon avatar by Dirtytabs. He is now the most awesome thing.
THIS Wins
My website: Free Raptor Games
Note: mostly abandoned due to lack of time.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Weretrex avatar by Bradakhan
Bec Noir avatar by Derjuin, thanks! Yes, that sword in his chest is a part of him.
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2010-12-12, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
At a glance you have a [/b] tag at the end of one of your first text things. Sorry, got distracted after that. Good, you fixed the DCs.
Can the creature choose between a Reflex save and Strength check to escape from Engulf?
Any particular reason you gain DR/- for having a creature engulfed rather than a straight DR/bludgeoning?Last edited by Kajhera; 2010-12-12 at 11:02 AM.
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2010-12-12, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Commenting on your critique & the Grell itself:
- Speed scaling with level is probably fine if you want to keep things more or less sane. A Grell that takes all levels in the class will have 30' speed. That makes more sense than a Grell20 with 115' movement or whatever.
- It's a good policy to outline starting language, especially in the case of creatures where it's ambiguous whether they'd be able to speak or not. Stating it in the '[Monster] Body' entry would save players from having to check the monster manual (or making incorrect assumptions).
- As far as the progression of tentacles goes, I would agree with tying it to HD. 1 tentacle per 2HD (minimum 2) would probably be fine, and would keep things relatively sane in relation to general level progression.
- The high number of natural attacks kind of bugs me, though. A grell full attack, as written, stands to be pretty damn devastating. Consider the effect of a Grell Warblade or Duskblade that gets +2d6 elemental damage on each attack. Remember, monsters can take class levels.
- Agree with toning down paralyzing tentacles in number of uses. 2xHD, 2xCon or HDxCon is likely sufficient, depending on what you're aiming for (2x Con would be potentially more earlier, but slower progression, while 2xHD would be steadier, and HDxCon would be much more unpredictable growth).
- The flight aspect in Buoyant could be bumped up to 5HD for the sake of sanity. Robust flight at 4th is okay for creatures that don't have a lot else going for them, but as is, a player taking 3 levels in Grell is getting a very dense progression at early levels, then very little thereafter.
- The -20 penalty that Expert Grappler refers to could be better stated. I just read through the grappling rules 3 times and I'm still not 100% sure what the creature author was referring to.
- Overall, I think it more or less works. The main points to address are the progression of tentacles and toning down the sheer quantity of paralysis attacks (as is, you probably wouldn't ever run out after 1st level, eliminating the need for a limit in the first place).
- Issues? I see potential weakness at 1st level as an issue, since you're slow, unskilled, armor is hard to come by, you don't have an excess of paralysis attacks (Possibly 4-6 at 1st level, with your current value, maybe 8, for 1-2 per daily encounter) and your base stats/skills kinda suck at that point. More of an issue, I stress, than being 1st level is for most. It's also a one trick pony that is kind of gimped at later levels by any elf (or other paralysis immune creature) with a freedom of movement effect.
Note
- Purple worm is up for review. I need a final critique to check for any omissions, oversights and errors, and then it's one thing we can probably strike from the unfinished list.
- I really think the growing 'unfinished' list is due to a stagnant review process. Things need to be streamlined, and I suspect the current methodology needs to be altered. As far as I can tell, there's not many/any creatures that've been fully critiqued and endorsed in 10 pages of this thread, and that points to things needing to change before this project slows to a complete halt. The recent schism apparently didn't help, and I think some might've just abandoned the project rather than go searching for the right thread to post in. We need to get things rolling again.
Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-12 at 11:24 AM.
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2010-12-12, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Most things changed for both critiques, though I am a bit wary of what its starting languages actually *are*.
Admittedly, I didn't change anything at 1st level, but I'm open to ideas.
The grappling rules for grappling with one of your natural weapons are ... somewhere other than the normal grappling rules. Monster manual? I suppose I should restate them in a part?
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2010-12-12, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!
Hey, I'd like to work on this project.
The last time I promised thatwhenever I promise that I never showedup again, however, so please PM me if I'm not back in two weeks. I might be able to work on something this week, as long as its only maybe ten levels long. *Goes to look over the requested monsters*
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2010-12-12, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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