Ionathus's Random Banter #249 -- Directionless Rambling Is Now Mandatory

[LaZodiac]

The thought occurs to me that Zodi's seagull was basically forming a cargo cult.

Doin' a bad job of it, all the other seagulls seemed to dislike the customer.

yeah crows are really intelligent, the stories I've heard are things like one trying to give money to a food stand seller for food, and another story says they gather around a corpse of crows to investigate it like a murder.

birds man, most likely animal to become sapient next.

I've finally finished FFXIV Stormblood yesterday leveling Samurai, switching to Dark Knight to level up to hopefully play Shadowbringers as that class one day, but I'm not sure if Shadowbringers will ever become free, programming will take time to learn and I don't have a source of income yet. love the red samurai outfit I got the end of the class quest though, really makes that classic ronin look work.

other random thought I've been having today: cyberpunk as a genre seems to oversimplify the world into megacorps and random criminal gangs on the street, which doesn't really match up with what I see of our world which is full of organizations and people outside of that paradigm with their own beliefs and concerns, but maybe I haven't read enough cyberpunk to know it beyond its steroetypical depictions.

You're right but also I look at news of octopi doing all the **** they do, our growing understanding of dolphin minds, and orangutan's making medicine, and am like "naw that might have already happened".

Hell yeah FF14!

Yeah fiction tends to simplify things.

[Anonymouswizard]

Well, forcibly insomuch as he really wanted to anyway, but yeah. Book 5 releases in just a few more months, and i hear they've optioned the film rights.

Honestly I'd have said a radio drama would have worked better than a film, at least for the first book.


On the cyberpunk thing, fiction basically has to simplify to make stories concise and understandable to a broad audience. Also sometimes to make a point more easily.

It's why most fiction has everyone lined up into 'with MC' and 'against MC' categories.

Side note: an idea I had for a queerish fantasy novel has evolved into 'knight falls from grace, winds up travelling with an adventuring party/lesbian polycule, has lots of sex, and learns how she should stand up for more than the "normal" even when she doesn't understand'. I might have issues.

[Rater202]

yeah crows are really intelligent, the stories I've heard are things like one trying to give money to a food stand seller for food, and another story says they gather around a corpse of crows to investigate it like a murder.

birds man, most likely animal to become sapient next.

Don't forget that murders of ravens have been observed semi-recently forming bonds with packs of wolves. Leading them to carcasses to tear open, playing with them. Even evidence of emotional bonds between specific wolves and specific ravens.

So yeah, birbies are domesticating other animals.

[Peelee]

Honestly I'd have said a radio drama would have worked better than a film, at least for the first book.


On the cyberpunk thing, fiction basically has to simplify to make stories concise and understandable to a broad audience. Also sometimes to make a point more easily.

It's why most fiction has everyone lined up into 'with MC' and 'against MC' categories.

Side note: an idea I had for a queerish fantasy novel has evolved into 'knight falls from grace, winds up travelling with an adventuring party/lesbian polycule, has lots of sex, and learns how she should stand up for more than the "normal" even when she doesn't understand'. I might have issues.

With streaming bringing the audiobook back in a big way, I'm not sure that radio plays are really where adaptations would go. I listened to the whole series, a radio play wouldn't really do it for me. Not that I'm terribly interested in a film version, gotta admit.

[Anonymouswizard]

With streaming bringing the audiobook back in a big way, I'm not sure that radio plays are really where adaptations would go. I listened to the whole series, a radio play wouldn't really do it for me. Not that I'm terribly interested in a film version, gotta admit.

I dunno, the radio drama is still the best version of The Lord of the Rings ever released. Bill Nighy makes a perfect Sam, I wonder why the films didn't cast him...

I also highly recommend the Earthsea one the BBC did about a decade ago. And their Lovecraft adaptations, I cannot describe just how amazing those are. In fact just download BBC Sounds and binge the radio dramas.

Good Radio Dramas are different experiences to audiobook, especially good ones which use as little narration as possible. The original ones are generally a safer bet, but adaptations can also be excellent.

[Rynjin]

I'm somewhat saddened to hear that the customer never got their pizza, though. Fortunately, these guys are extremely resourceful (and also probably very happy (my first ever exposure to seagulls was hearing them vocalize in unison from a hotel room; for a moment there, I was absolutely certain a group of very loud people were laughing together for some extremely nefarious reason)), but it's still rude to ignore someone like that.

Encouraging the sky-pests just leads to them getting bolder and bolder. Tourists humoring the birdies is why the rest of us have to deal with them begging for and/or quite literally stealing the food from your hands year round.

[halfeye]

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?

Nah, there are still ticks.

[LaZodiac]

Encouraging the sky-pests just leads to them getting bolder and bolder. Tourists humoring the birdies is why the rest of us have to deal with them begging for and/or quite literally stealing the food from your hands year round.

While I would certainly curse and scream if it happened to me I feel like at the end of the day if a bird steals food from your hands they kinda earned it, that's a high difficulty pickpocket check. It's also just really funny.

[Keltest]

While I would certainly curse and scream if it happened to me I feel like at the end of the day if a bird steals food from your hands they kinda earned it, that's a high difficulty pickpocket check. It's also just really funny.

Pickpocketing implies you didnt just watch them grab it and run. It was a mugging.

[LaZodiac]

Pickpocketing implies you didnt just watch them grab it and run. It was a mugging.

Mugging requires some degree of threatened or acted-upon violence. Is there a word for just, brazenly swiping something from someone mid-bite and bolting? My sleepy morning brain suggested pickpocketing but that's like, clearly straining the definition.

[Batcathat]

Snatch theft seems like the closest human equivalent, I think.

[Bartmanhomer]

Happy Mother's Day everyone. Today is a difficult day for me because my mother passed away in 2011 from Type 2 Diabetes.

[TaiLiu]

NOT IF MY PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT!

on your planet, draining your oceans

Species don't last forever. When your people are gone, the sea will swallow it all. I am forcefully removed from the forums for anti-Dutch sentiments.

I like the strawberry acai lemonade. Don't go to often (i never drink coffee), but they have good fast food breakfast sandwiches - that's the drink I get off I grab breakfast from them.

Well, probably just the Irish. I'm going to very be very short here to keep things apolitical, but there's a joke that the greatest British achievement in understating things was the name "The Troubles".

Thanks for the tip. If I'm at a Starbucks, I'll try the lemonade and the sandwiches.

Oh, I see.

I mean, because they loved each other. Their love was just a burning hatred for each other that made them never want to exist without the other. Also married people get special benefits in many situations.

Oh, I see. I guess I've never felt love like burning hatred before.

He's been previously diagnosed with autism, but today his teachers—not psychiatrists, teachers, insisted that he also has ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder and wanted him medicated ASAP.

The kid is four. People who lack the qualifications to make this judgment want to put a four-year-old on what are essentially controlled doses of hard drugs because he won't sit still in a way that's convenient for them.

That's really frustrating. Sorry for your cousin. I think conduct disorders have no real reason to exist and the fact that they do is consistent with the argument that psychiatry is really about control.

I mean, because of medical and logistical reasons. For example, for a medical reason, let's say a patient has isolated precautions. Ideally, they don't want anyone visiting the patient. It is highly likely to be medically harmful to either the patient, the visitor, or both. An exception for immediate family might be made to say goodbye. Exceptions might also be made for people the patient has specifically designated. The spousal privilege is simply a pre-existing standardized clearance that you don't need to make special arrangements for.

I think this is too kind to the homophobic hospitals that hospital visitation and gay marriage laws were written to address. It was not too long ago that Janice Langbehn was prohibited from seeing her dying partner—and not for any medical or logistical reason, as I'm sure you know.

Because you killed all the bears and wolves, thus removing the natural checks on the deer population?

Hence the need for human hunters, right? That's a good point.

I have some rather radical views on marriage that I thankfully cannot and, therefore, will not share here, so I'm good to leave it at that.

Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times.

Happy Mother's Day everyone. Today is a difficult day for me because my mother passed away in 2011 from Type 2 Diabetes.

That's really hard. I'm sorry for your loss.

[Peelee]

I think this is too kind to the homophobic hospitals that hospital visitation and gay marriage laws were written to address.

I would agree, except I'm not arguing on that basis. I'm arguing on how the current American system is set up, and even then I have said (several times, at this point) that I'm not opposed to easement of restrictions being further expanded for poly marriages. That doesn't mean that there aren't actual medical/logistical reasons.

[Rater202]

That's really frustrating. Sorry for your cousin. I think conduct disorders have no real reason to exist and the fact that they do is consistent with the argument that psychiatry is really about control.

That's going a bit to far. ADHD is a real thing, and if you have it and have it bad then these medications in the proper dosage will help.

The problem is that there is a bad habit of teachers wanting to dismiss any child that won't sit still or has trouble paying attention as merely having something "wrong with them" and wanting them medicated to make their jobs easier when honestly they're probably just being a kid. which is a problem, because Ritalin is almost identical in makeup and effect to cocaine, most other ADHD medications are literally amphetamines, and one called Desoxyn is literally just straight-up meth. Now there's a world of difference between taking this stuff as directed in pill format and shooting or smoking the hard stuff you bought from a shady dude behind the hardware store but it's still not the kind of stuff you want to be taking if you don't need it, ya know?

...Granted, there's an argument to be made that ADHD isn't so much a disorder so much as a natural variation. I saw a thing recently that extrapolated that 1 in 4 kids has at least some ADHD symptoms while the percentage is much lower for teens and adults resulting in debate on whether or not it is a result of overdiagnosis or people with more mild symptoms figuring out how to compensate on their own as they get older.

(it's almost certainly both.)

Though if we're being completely honest I'm not sure oppositional defiance disorder is a real thing. The symptoms are all motly some variation of not automatically deferring to authority(which there are a million and one valid reasons not and is also um, the default for a toddler) and I've seen it said that a significant number of people diagnosed with it are diagnosed with it because you can't legally diagnose someone with antisocial personality disorder until they're 18.

[TaiLiu]

I would agree, except I'm not arguing on that basis. I'm arguing on how the current American system is set up, and even then I have said (several times, at this point) that I'm not opposed to easement of restrictions being further expanded for poly marriages. That doesn't mean that there aren't actual medical/logistical reasons.

Oh, I see. I misread you and thought you were making a general statement.

That's going a bit to far. ADHD is a real thing, and if you have it and have it bad then these medications in the proper dosage will help.

The problem is that there is a bad habit of teachers wanting to dismiss any child that won't sit still or has trouble paying attention as merely having something "wrong with them" and wanting them medicated to make their jobs easier when honestly they're probably just being a kid. which is a problem, because Ritalin is almost identical in makeup and effect to cocaine, most other ADHD medications are literally amphetamines, and one called Desoxyn is literally just straight-up meth. Now there's a world of difference between taking this stuff as directed in pill format and shooting or smoking the hard stuff you bought from a shady dude behind the hardware store but it's still not the kind of stuff you want to be taking if you don't need it, ya know?

...Granted, there's an argument to be made that ADHD isn't so much a disorder so much as a natural variation. I saw a thing recently that extrapolated that 1 in 4 kids has at least some ADHD symptoms while the percentage is much lower for teens and adults resulting in debate on whether or not it is a result of overdiagnosis or people with more mild symptoms figuring out how to compensate on their own as they get older.

(it's almost certainly both.)

Though if we're being completely honest I'm not sure oppositional defiance disorder is a real thing. The symptoms are all motly some variation of not automatically deferring to authority(which there are a million and one valid reasons not and is also um, the default for a toddler) and I've seen it said that a significant number of people diagnosed with it are diagnosed with it because you can't legally diagnose someone with antisocial personality disorder until they're 18.

ADHD is generally considered a neurodevelopmental disorder, not a conduct disorder. Conduct disorders are disorders found in the Disruptive, Impulse-Control, and Conduct Disorders section of the DSM. They include ODD, Pyromania, and similar disorders. I don't think conceptualizing these tendencies as discrete disorders is very helpful.

But I agree with you more broadly. Antipsychiatry is flawed. Psychiatry has some utility for those of us suffering psychologically. But we also shouldn't underplay its utility as a form of control. In the US, Black people fighting for their rights were diagnosed with schizophrenia at a disturbing rate.

[Bohandas]

Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times.

Like in Futurama 2

In the US, Black people fighting for their rights were diagnosed with schizophrenia at a disturbing rate.

Or possibly they're underdiagnosing politically active white people. To me most activists on both sides of the aisle come off as completely insane. I could give more detail but forum rukes forbid it. Suffice it to say that this strikes me as more of a white privilege thing

[Bartmanhomer]

Thanks for the tip. If I'm at a Starbucks, I'll try the lemonade and the sandwiches.



That's hard. I'm sorry for your loss.

Yes. As Peelee said there are non-coffee drinks and sandwiches at Starbucks.

Thank you, friend.

[TaiLiu]

Like in Futurama 2

Or possibly they're underdiagnosing politically active white people. To me most activists on both sides of the aisle come off as completely insane. I could give more detail but forum rukes forbid it. Suffice it to say that this strikes me as more of a white privilege thing

Oh, I’ve never watched it.

Metzl’s book isn’t commenting on contemporary events or politics. His book is centered around the 1960s. He argues that around that time, schizophrenia (which was originally a disorder heavily diagnosed for complacent white housewives) was reappropriated for Black civil rights activists. White privilege is, as always, a part of the story. But I think anti-Black racism and psychiatric coercion are more useful concepts here.

[Anonymouswizard]

Mass permanent marriage. Everyone is married to everyone else at all times.

I didn't realise Heinlein posted here!


...I've noticed a disturbing trend online of people suggesting that Astarion isn't okay with Durge also dating Halsin. This completely baffles me, Astarion was clearly expecting it to happen and if he cared he'd have spent less time workshopping his snarky comeback.

Like it's clear that Karlach has reservations, but Astarion doesn't care.

[Keltest]

I didn't realise Heinlein posted here!


...I've noticed a disturbing trend online of people suggesting that Astarion isn't okay with Durge also dating Halsin. This completely baffles me, Astarion was clearly expecting it to happen and if he cared he'd have spent less time workshopping his snarky comeback.

Like it's clear that Karlach has reservations, but Astarion doesn't care.

Astarion has been deeply traumatized, especially regarding romance. Just because he says one thing doesnt mean he actually necessarily means it, even if he doesn't realize it. Getting him to examine and verbalize his feelings about that stuff is part of his whole character arc.

[Anonymouswizard]

Astarion has been deeply traumatized, especially regarding romance. Just because he says one thing doesnt mean he actually necessarily means it, even if he doesn't realize it. Getting him to examine and verbalize his feelings about that stuff is part of his whole character arc.

Yes, but he also really doesn't care here (especially as he's at the point where he will stand up to you if you break his trust). Part of it is Halsin being open about having no intent on it being long term and having no desires to monopolise emotional intimacy. Astarion has a lot of trauma and issues, but seeing this scene also means you've had the opportunity for him to dump you from breaking his trust.

Astarion does have issues with other romance options, because they're a lot more threatening to what he doesn't want to lose.

Plus I just kind of ship Astarion and Halsin, they'd be adorable and Astarion kind of needs the support the big bear would provide. Plus once his better able to deal with his trauma both would be great dads.

Also the developer notes are that he's being genuine.

[Peelee]

[character] has been deeply traumatized

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell.

[Anonymouswizard]

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell.

Hey, be fair. Durge was the one inflicting the trauma in her backstory.

Oh, and Will's pretty much fine. His backstory model is 'tragedy of impulsiveness'.

[Peelee]

Oh, and Will's pretty much fine. His backstory model is 'tragedy of impulsiveness'.

Y would you spell his name that way?

[Anonymouswizard]

Y would you spell his name that way?

The dangers of going for A Song of Ice and Fire stile names.

[Keltest]

Ah, the Baldur's Gate 3 origin character backstory in a nutshell.

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

[LaZodiac]

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

Gale has perhaps the more traumatic backstory of all; he fumbled a literal goddess.

(this is mostly tongue in cheek)

[Peelee]

Gale wasn't traumatized either, as evidenced by how he wants to keep poking things he shouldn't.

Devil's Advocate: Gale's biggest driving force is to get right back into the abusive relationship he was in, the the point that when he considers killing himself when she says "kill yourself".

[Anonymouswizard]

Gale has perhaps the more traumatic backstory of all; he fumbled a literal goddess.

(this is mostly tongue in cheek)

To be fair Gale's got a ton of issues coming from the fact that he boinked Mystra. They're just mostly separate from his impulsiveness and lack of foresight, he has very little knowledge of how a relationship actually works and is TERRIBLE at expressing his interest (hence his reputation as a ninjamancer, many people brush past the hints that he links magic and romance).

As Astarion states the group is a bunch of weirdos. Which would be fine, but they're led by a Paladin who keeps stabbing innocents.

To to quote Belkar 'eh, the bear's probably fine'.