Questionable Content XX: XXX?

[Gnoman]

It is almost certainly accidental, but the shape of that rope is not a good look here.

[Mechalich]

It is almost certainly accidental, but the shape of that rope is not a good look here.

The weird part is how it trails off on the lower end. Everything from Iris' hand on up is normal, that's how climbing ropes look when they are coiled and stored (or presented for sale, as Amazon can kindly illustrate). It's the lower part that's a massive discontinuity, and I mean, I don't think a continuous piece of rope take that shape: how do the eight loops become two?

[Beelzebub1111]

Are we going to go "Ahaha, she's from holland so she's a pro weed smoker and isn't even bothered by that weak american sh"?

I feel like if I were a hack, that is the joke I would make in this scenario.

[Rodin]

It is almost certainly accidental, but the shape of that rope is not a good look here.

Isn’t it intentional? Iris yesterday said she was going to get a rope, presumably because she’d rather kill herself than listen to any more from the pot brigade. The joke today is that she wants to sell it, but it’s already made up in a noose supporting the original reason she was implied to be getting it.

I’m not sure how funny it is, but it seemed clear to me that it’s a joke.

[Wraith]

Liz is speaking with all the confident expertise of someone who has gotten high exactly once, around a couple of people who have never got high.

You thought we had forgotten this, Jeph? You thought we had forgotten that this takes place about 6 comics after Liz harassed Evan and then ran outside to barf because she was too drunk?

We have already done this. We have already seen Liz get drunk and high. CLAIRE WAS THERE. IT HAPPENED 24 HOURS AGO IN-COMIC TIME

[Mechalich]

Isn’t it intentional? Iris yesterday said she was going to get a rope, presumably because she’d rather kill herself than listen to any more from the pot brigade. The joke today is that she wants to sell it, but it’s already made up in a noose supporting the original reason she was implied to be getting it.

I’m not sure how funny it is, but it seemed clear to me that it’s a joke.

Except it's not in a noose. This is a noose (stock photo). Iris is holding rope that's half in a standard traveling coil and half an untangled mess, a combination that would be quite the trick to get rope into and that would need to be undone before using the rope for anything.

Also, even if this was a self-harm related joke, AIs are kind of immune to hanging, so it's a double fail in that regard.

[Rodin]

Except it's not in a noose. This is a noose (stock photo). Iris is holding rope that's half in a standard traveling coil and half an untangled mess, a combination that would be quite the trick to get rope into and that would need to be undone before using the rope for anything.

Also, even if this was a self-harm related joke, AIs are kind of immune to hanging, so it's a double fail in that regard.

Meh, I guess? I'm not convinced it isn't just bad art, but I can see alternate interpretations for the previous page (using the rope to tie up Liz, for example).

Whatever the joke was, it's pretty poorly done when considered across the two comics.

I thought the Cubetown party was a new low, but this series of...dear God, 40 comics has far surpassed it by now. We're at a month and a half worth of comics just since the party started. That's not counting all the lead-in time.

[halfeye]

Why are people who loathe and despise the comic still reading it?

It's not the best comic I read, but it's by no means the worst.

Cinnerkrig Court has had 4 issues of a creepy guy talking at a comatose girl in badly drawn septia tone, with no clear connection to the plot whatsoever, but iit's still not getting the level of aggro that this comic does.

[Rodin]

Why are people who loathe and despise the comic still reading it?

It's not the best comic I read, but it's by no means the worst.

Cinnerkrig Court has had 4 issues of a creepy guy talking at a comatose girl in badly drawn septia tone, with no clear connection to the plot whatsoever, but iit's still not getting the level of aggro that this comic does.

I'm not commenting on Gunnerkrigg Court because I'm really engaged by it. I disagree with you on the art, I think it looks cool, and we're getting tidbits towards an information reveal. Story is happening, and if it's happening slowly, well, Gunnerkrigg Court as always been a slow drip of mystery. It's part of the appeal.

As to why I still read QC? Habit. I've "quit" the comic half a dozen times already, but as the Redditors say "See you tomorrow".

[Mechalich]

It takes me less than 30 seconds to read a QC strip, which I usually do at work anyway. The time commitment of keeping up with it is minimal.

More importantly, the opposite of love in fandom is not hate, but indifference. We complain because we care. And the reason we care is simple: parts of QC are really, really good. Specifically the first ~2500 comics are a fairly remarkable portrait of the life of American millennials in the 2000s (okay, maybe it's necessary to specify white millennials), that nails all sorts of things including the location-based specifics. Speaking as a white millennial from New England is it amazing how true to life huge chunks of those first two thousand or so strips really feel. I know people would could be Marten and Dora and Faye and even characters like Hannelore and Sven are only slightly exaggerated ('trust fund kid with mental health problems' and 'unfairly attractive dude who lucked into an easy well-paying job' are uncommon types, but they definitely exist).

Jeph Jacques created a comic that really, genuinely, works to define a moment through humorous artistic expression. And then it went off the rails. The reason is fairly obvious: Marten is a self-insert character. Jeph Jacques graduated with a music degree from Hampshire College and lived in Northampton working a day job during the initial creation of QC. Early QC is very, very clearly informed directly from the author's own life experience, to the point the 'sitcom-ified memoir' is probably a valid classification for the comic's genre. The moment it diverged from that the quality began to drop precipitously, and every time it lurches back in that direction the quality goes back up.

The diagnosis is simply that Jeph has a fairly narrow range. That's not a bad thing, someone who's great within highly constrained bounds is still great, but it does mean that unless the artist in question has sufficient self-awareness to stay in their lane, they're going to underperform their potential a lot. That's what QC has been doing for some time now. It could be so much better than it is, often to the point of being painfully obvious to the audience, which draws way more criticism than if Jeph's best was simply bad.

Now, to be fair, I don't think this a purely artistic issue. Some of it is clearly financial. Jeph is well-off - his Patreon has over 17,000 members and probably brings in something like 25,000-ish monthly, throw in merc and other revenue streams and I wouldn't be surprised if he cleared 30k per month - but he doesn't have ****-it money. He's obligated to keep producing what makes his fans happy in order to maintain his revenue (also, I strongly suspect he wants happy fans, both out of genuinely being an empathetic person and because validation is a hell of drug). That's the nature of a patronage model, the audience gets what it wants, not necessarily what would be best from an artistic perspective.

[Beelzebub1111]

Why are people who loathe and despise the comic still reading it?

It's not a huge investment to read a strip each day when I've been reading for this long. There are elements that could be good, there's characters that I even like (though they aren't treated very well by the author in favor of his pets). Sort of like how it's fascinating to learn from a bad example and see HOW the good elements are blundered. It's fun to pick apart and workshop ideas on how to fix it.

This is the grognard forum. We are here because we LIKE to grumble about how much better things used to be and how terrible things are nowadays.

[Errorname]

Why are people who loathe and despise the comic still reading it?

I'm not as harsh on this comic as others, but honestly I just read it because it updates regularly and doesn't demand much cognitive load. If it sometimes gets a good punchline in it's worth, it's basically a newspaper comic at this point.

Cinnerkrig Court has had 4 issues of a creepy guy talking at a comatose girl in badly drawn septia tone, with no clear connection to the plot whatsoever, but iit's still not getting the level of aggro that this comic does.

Gunnerkrigg is clearly doing set-up and if you're familiar with the comic you can start making some assumptions about who those characters are and what they're talking about and why it's extremely significant. Gunnerkrigg's burned a lot of trust in recent years, but "vague unclear flashbacks to long dead characters" is classic Gunnerkrigg stuff from back when the comic was at the top of it's game. Those pages on their own are fine, negative sentiment comes from declining trust in the author to actually pay anything off and tell a good story.

That's a problem QC has too. I think I'm generally pretty open about instances where I think the comic has good punchlines or manages to pleasantly surprise me, but I also think a lot of pages that wouldn't really bother anyone in a comic that people liked better get harsher receptions just because a lot of the audience no longer trusts Jeph as a storyteller and isn't inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[Agi Hammerthief]

oh, look:
something new
some character development
it wasn’t about any of the others after all

[Wraith]

In isolation, today's comic is fine. In context though, it's a punishing reminder of how poorly paced this comic is.

I mean, comic 5294 - Claire worries about Liz getting high and asks Clinton to distract her. 11 comics - over two working weeks - go by as we blunder back-and-forth about will-she-won't-she, will-Claire-intervene-xie, and then...

Comic 5305 (today) - Liz gets high off-camera and no one even acknowledges it. What a build up to nothing.This entire week could have been compressed from the first two panels of Monday added to about 3 of the panels from today, and I don't think anything would have been missed.

[Lumus]

Why are people who loathe and despise the comic still reading it?

I've been reading the comic for twenty years and enjoyed it for most of that, so it's earned a certain amount of sticking with it.

...That said, if it wasn't a common topic of conversation in various webcomic discussion places I frequent, I probably would have given up by now.

[Agi Hammerthief]

It’s not the artist’s fault that some people here are overthinking every single page, while still missing the point when it comes along:

It’s not a build up to nothing, it’s a build up to Claire dropping her „I have to be the adult in the room“ attitude, at least for the evening.
There is still plenty time for Liz to be a drunk & high Goblin next week.


Jeph can’t pace the comic quicker than he has ideas of what is up next, so you’ll just have to put up with „5 pages a minute in comic“ on a regular basis.

[Rodin]

It’s not the artist’s fault that some people here are overthinking every single page, while still missing the point when it comes along:

It’s not a build up to nothing, it’s a build up to Claire dropping her „I have to be the adult in the room“ attitude, at least for the evening.
There is still plenty time for Liz to be a drunk & high Goblin next week.


Jeph can’t pace the comic quicker than he has ideas of what is up next, so you’ll just have to put up with „5 pages a minute in comic“ on a regular basis.

The problem is twofold.

1) Pacing. We've been on this party storyline for 70 comics. The party being there to get Claire to loosen up is great and all, but does it need to be taking 3 and a half months? I guarantee you wouldn't hear even half the complaints if the party storyline had been covered in, say, 20 comics. A couple comics setting it up, a couple comics of people meeting, and then a few comics each for the actual meaty bits of the character development (Clinton talking with Liz and Clinton convincing Claire not to be a mother hen). Then the party is over, we move on to something new. And in case you think I'm being overly critical and shortening the party too much, may I present Marigold going to the bar and being introduced to the gang.

It's 5 comics from the outing being mentioned to Marigold walking in the door with everybody there. 8 comics later, Marigold is home and we start the next bit of story with Momo blowing up Marigold's PC. 13 comics from beginning to end, with character development for Marigold and a moment between Faye and Dora discussing Dora's character development.

2) Implementation. The arc hasn't been Claire going over the top with the mom-boss stuff and it causing problems or damaging relationships or even being mentioned that much. Claire has a couple of moments of "Liz stop doing that" before finally going "Ok Liz do that", and then she complains to Clinton about them needing a mother. And Clinton asks what the audience has been screaming for 70 comics: Do they?

And just like that, with those two words, Claire changes her mind. There's no discussion of it, no Clinton arguing with his sister on how she's being overbearing and taking on responsibilites she doesn't have. There's no introspection. Just "Scooch over and pass the bong." Again, I invite looking at the linked Marigold story to see how to handle character development well. Marigold mustering the courage to enter the bar. Marigold trying beer to be cool, and her friends mentoring her and telling her its cool not to like beer (and subtly finding out she likes wine between comics). Same friends assuring her that being cool is overrated. Dora and Faye having a nice moment as mentioned above. And that all takes place in two weeks of comics real-time.

The reason I'm critical of Jeph is because he can write like that. That Marigold arc is one of my favorite descriptions of social anxiety, and how everyone is rooting for you to overcome it. It's cute, it's got great art, the punchlines are funny. And now we get 70 comics of basically nothing with the one source of character development being "Do they?"

I may read the comic out of habit, but the reason I post is because I wish that someday Jeph will find his muse again and write in the way that had me refreshing the comic page at midnight.

[Traab]

The problem is twofold.

1) Pacing. We've been on this party storyline for 70 comics. The party being there to get Claire to loosen up is great and all, but does it need to be taking 3 and a half months? I guarantee you wouldn't hear even half the complaints if the party storyline had been covered in, say, 20 comics. A couple comics setting it up, a couple comics of people meeting, and then a few comics each for the actual meaty bits of the character development (Clinton talking with Liz and Clinton convincing Claire not to be a mother hen). Then the party is over, we move on to something new. And in case you think I'm being overly critical and shortening the party too much, may I present Marigold going to the bar and being introduced to the gang.

It's 5 comics from the outing being mentioned to Marigold walking in the door with everybody there. 8 comics later, Marigold is home and we start the next bit of story with Momo blowing up Marigold's PC. 13 comics from beginning to end, with character development for Marigold and a moment between Faye and Dora discussing Dora's character development.

2) Implementation. The arc hasn't been Claire going over the top with the mom-boss stuff and it causing problems or damaging relationships or even being mentioned that much. Claire has a couple of moments of "Liz stop doing that" before finally going "Ok Liz do that", and then she complains to Clinton about them needing a mother. And Clinton asks what the audience has been screaming for 70 comics: Do they?

And just like that, with those two words, Claire changes her mind. There's no discussion of it, no Clinton arguing with his sister on how she's being overbearing and taking on responsibilites she doesn't have. There's no introspection. Just "Scooch over and pass the bong." Again, I invite looking at the linked Marigold story to see how to handle character development well. Marigold mustering the courage to enter the bar. Marigold trying beer to be cool, and her friends mentoring her and telling her its cool not to like beer (and subtly finding out she likes wine between comics). Same friends assuring her that being cool is overrated. Dora and Faye having a nice moment as mentioned above. And that all takes place in two weeks of comics real-time.

The reason I'm critical of Jeph is because he can write like that. That Marigold arc is one of my favorite descriptions of social anxiety, and how everyone is rooting for you to overcome it. It's cute, it's got great art, the punchlines are funny. And now we get 70 comics of basically nothing with the one source of character development being "Do they?"

I may read the comic out of habit, but the reason I post is because I wish that someday Jeph will find his muse again and write in the way that had me refreshing the comic page at midnight.

I think the difference in the pacing is because of a difference in the characters and how well we know them. Marigold and momo have spent years with us learning all about their characters, the dynamic between them, and so jeph doesnt feel the need to dwell on the minutia of their interaction because we can kinda fill in the blanks between the main points. Meanwhile these guys are sorta known but we havent really gotten a ton of focus on them and how this particular grouping of them will interact so it takes far more details being included. As an example, back in the day, when faye wanted a drink, we didnt need to get an explanation of why she was drinking midnight hobo, we could just enjoy whatever label was on it for the fun name. After she quit drinking we didnt need to have it explained multiple times to marten and dora why she was not partaking at each party or gathering. So when the goblin girl showed up, we DID need to include those comics both to have her learn this bit of fayes character, and for the reaction of goblina to it which touches off its own set of comics.

So the arc takes a lot longer because it cant just be
"We are having a party, you coming?"
"Nah."
"Ok, just know you are invited." To
"We are having a party, you coming?"
"Nah"
"Why not"
"Because I dont drink"
"Oh blah blah blah"
"You insensitive twit!"
"Omg" /runs off
"Do you know why that was wrong?"
"Yeah."
"Then go apologize"
"Ok, im sorry."
"Ok whatever, moving on."

[Agi Hammerthief]

The problem is twofold.
[removed wall of text]

I write of „overthinking“ and „not getting the point“
you post a wall of text.

twofold problem, I 100% agree

[Keltest]

I write of „overthinking“ and „not getting the point“
you post a wall of text.

twofold problem, I 100% agree

If you have to turn your brain off so much that you cant even compare the comic to itself in order to enjoy it, then maybe its just a badly written comic now?

[Agi Hammerthief]

If you have to turn your brain off so much that you cant even compare the comic to itself in order to enjoy it, then maybe its just a badly written comic now?

The daily page is up when I wake up in the morning and am still half asleep, so you are right about my brain being partially switched off.
This comic is just the right amount of input for 6:30ish in the morning.

But do you really think it was well written in the past 21 years?
frankly: I don’t.
it was „good enough written“ for most part, the current episode isn’t the worst.
I think I joined when the roombas went flying and archive binged out of interest, can’t remember when I suspended the comic for a few months, but at least I did it quietly.
{scrubbed}

[Beelzebub1111]

Today's comics lesson: Drugs make you happy and have fun with friends and are super cool.

[halfeye]

Today's comics lesson: Drugs make you happy and have fun with friends and are super cool.

This drug is apparently legal in some places. Alcohol wasn't legal in the USA early last century, and is arguably more dangerous.

[Keltest]

This drug is apparently legal in some places. Alcoihol wasn't legal in the USA early last century, and is arguably more dangerous.

Mixing drugs with alcohol is No Bueno no matter how you spin it.

Separately, I really hate it when people try to advocate for recreational weed use in real life. I don't appreciate it any better when it's the subtext in a piece of media, and it's really galling when it's boring media.

[Agi Hammerthief]

Mixing drugs with alcohol is No Bueno no matter how you spin it.

implying alcohol is not a drug?

I‘m not going on an archive binge, but as far as my memory serves me, QC has at least been pretty Nicotine free.

[Keltest]

implying alcohol is not a drug?

I‘m not going on an archive binge, but as far as my memory serves me, QC has at least been pretty Nicotine free.

Hanners used to smoke cigarettes.

Anyway, alcohol is a drug, but mixing alcohol with alcohol just gets more alcohol, not like multiplicitive effects.

[Beelzebub1111]

This drug is apparently legal in some places. Alcohol wasn't legal in the USA early last century, and is arguably more dangerous.

The legality of a vice does not make it not a vice. Which is especially concerning when we consider that there is another character with a vice problem that is apparently so serious that it's a problem to bring it up even if you know nothing about the history of it. and she won't drink something with the alcohol content of a ginger ale. But also we have these pages where vice is fun and relatable and makes everyone super chill and makes it easy to have a good time.

You can see how one would get mixed messages from this comic, yeah?

[Agi Hammerthief]

I‘ve heard rumors that life is complex.

and I seriously hope that no-one relies on a web comic as an information source on how (or not) to do drugs.

are you reading this comic like watching an 80‘s cartoon?

greetings from Captain Future and Co.:
„Today I have learned a lesson: Don’t mix drugs, m‘kay?“



Edit: changed my avatar, felt like I was talking to myself while replying to Keltest

[halfeye]

The legality of a vice does not make it not a vice.

It doesn't? What does then?

[Cikomyr2]

It doesn't? What does then?

A vice is not a crime, its a moral fault. We have not codified in law all moral faults.