Works where you were surprised to learn you were in the minority of viewers

[Eldan]

As a setting idea, it's kind of cool. The specifics really get to me, though. If the monsters can be straight up killed via shotgun, they most definitely do not rule the world. How would they take over, say, a warship? Ultimately, they die to bullets, and are not infinitely strong, and are frankly terrible at stealth and easy to bait. They get murdered off really fast if treated realistically.

There are other ways one could make that setting work, though, and get a really, really strong proper horror vibe from it. Say, a sci fi setting in which these things are discovered, and there simply is no military available for a time. Think this film crossed with Chronicles of Riddick.

I also didn't like it but thought it had interesting ideas. I think I'd go even smaller than Chronicles of Riddick.

Make Alien with it, to start the franchise. Spacestation contains one of these things, they have no weapons, it picks off the crew one by one as they accidentally make noises while trying to build traps and improvised weapons. Formulaic, but a nice gimmick with the sound, should work.

[Saph]

One that comes to mind for me is the game Shadow of the Colossus. Whenever you see people discuss it online, it's praised up and down as fantastic, sometimes as one of the greatest games ever made. When I finally picked it up and played it, I found it very underwhelming - a few good ideas for a boss fight spread far too thin over 16 of them, with very little else even there to speak of. I simply cannot see in it whatever it is that its fans do.

Atmosphere. You have this vast empty, beautiful landscape which you can wander around and explore. Then, every now and again, you fight these giant ancient monsters – but the game's not really about "boss fights", and if you went in looking for that, it's not surprising that you came away disappointed. The reason it was so popular was that it was a sequel to Ico, which was a similarly quiet, atmospheric, slow-paced, beautiful game, so the fans knew exactly what they were getting, and if you were that particular type of fan, you were pretty much guaranteed to like it. You aren't that type of fan, so you didn't . . . but the game knew exactly what audience it was aiming for, and it did a very good job of appealing to them. That's why it was so successful.

[Liffguard]

Yeah. I never got the hate for Solo either. I enjoyed it. At the end of the day, it's a one shot film, and does exactly what it needed to do (tell the origin bits for Han Solo). It checked every single box it needed to check: His signature pistol? Check. Millenium Falcon? Check. Chewie? Check. Kessel Run? Check. Why he's a smuggler? Check.

I suppose that's fundamentally the problem, it absolutely didn't need to do any of that. It fulfilled its role, but its role was unnecessary, arguably counterproductive. He's a smuggler because he's a smuggler, that's his backstory, it didn't need to be explicitly shown. His pistol looks like that because that's what his pistol looks like. Do we also need a separate movie showing him choosing his hairstyle? The Kessel run was a throwaway line to give the story universe a bit of illusory depth and verisimilitude. Every subsequent attempt to expand on it or rationalise it has ironically just made it shallower and cheaper. Not every aspect of a character's backstory needs to be shown on screen. That's why it's backstory. Indeed, my major criticism of Solo is that it isn't really a story, just a list of boxes to check. A parade of unnecessary fanservice.

It's a general problem with "fan" spaces, but it's a major problem with Star Wars in particular, this inability to let anything be ambiguous. There's nothing inherently wrong with prequels, but origin stories specifically are generally a bad idea imo, because by taking things that used to be ambiguous or implied and nailing them down into something explicit, you make the story world feel smaller and more contained, even if the story as a whole is technically bigger now.

[Pax1138]

I did always feel that Solo would've been a lot more enjoyable if it just didn't star Han Solo. If it was just a Star Wars movie about just some new guy falling into doing this stuff, without any of the backstory elements, I think it might've been pretty great.

[Buufreak]

Dogma

Alright, maybe it is the cynical catholic in me, or maybe it was being a teen when comedy central would show more than just garbage reruns all day, but I love dogma, and actually have it on DVD. We still pop it in from time to time when we need a laugh.

Iron Man

I'll do ya one better. I generally think, as someone who grew up with comics and all the varied animated series (xmen evolution is a gem and you can't make me think otherwise), that damn near all the marvel movies are subpar. So many of them are an attempt at setup and story building that I feel alot of the joy gets cut and left on the floor. I understand, it was a time to try to bring all these things mainstream, but literally hours upon hours of world building across many different characters and franchises just so I can sit in a theatre and go "oh yea, like that one comic" on a fairly regular basis? Nah, I wish I had my money back.

But that doesn't cover the biggest offender. Iron man. The poster child. The first one to come out in the collective continuity. And by golly, do I think all 3 are just meh movies at best. Explosion. 30 minutes in a cave. Existential crisis. Corporate hostile takeover. A very non villain. Credits. Angry Russian guy. Oh, he is trapped in an office instead of a cave. Car race. Falling out with friend who is now new actor and we are supposed to nod along. Angry government. Cucked (can I say that here) by the big explosion not happening. Credits.

Then 3. Oh baby, 3. We gave pepper temporary powers. We took Tony completely out of the movie for about an hour. Funny joke about smokes and milk, and a dad that never came home. White washing of perhaps one of the bigger names in marvel villainy, and ultimately just deleting the character entirely. Blowing up all my own suits for some crazy reason. Iron man will return.

It is all just such slapped together writing, storyboard, character designs. They all have dare I say good scenes, but ultimately they aren't good movies. I'd maybe call them 5's, but really they are in descending order for me.

Ps. This is eventually going to become the new hot take thread.

[The Patterner]

So I never got into Coboy bebop, I saw a couple of episodes and sure, it was alright but nothing spectacular. Then I saw the live action version and was like, oh, this was fun.

That was my 'Huh' moment.

Looper also didn't work for me, Joseph Gordon-Lewits character just came across as a selfish prick and I didn't care for anything that was happening. I realize that I have only really liked one movie by Rian Johnson and that's Knives out. Last Jedi and Glass onion had some really cool and well made parts, but there is something about Johnsons movies that just makes me annoyed.

[The Glyphstone]

Not a movie, but I absolutely fell in love with the board game Galaxy Trucker while I was in college, got my own copy but never had a group to play with until I moved and got a local game store. Turns out I seem to be the only human being in the state, if not on planet Earth, who actually likes this weird little game.

[Batcathat]

Not a movie, but I absolutely fell in love with the board game Galaxy Trucker while I was in college, got my own copy but never had a group to play with until I moved and got a local game store. Turns out I seem to be the only human being in the state, if not on planet Earth, who actually likes this weird little game.

Huh, in that case you can add that one to my list, too. Me and several of my friends are quite fond of it.

[Darth Credence]

Not a movie, but I absolutely fell in love with the board game Galaxy Trucker while I was in college, got my own copy but never had a group to play with until I moved and got a local game store. Turns out I seem to be the only human being in the state, if not on planet Earth, who actually likes this weird little game.

I love that game, too. And if you can't find people to play, there is a digital version so you can play alone (if that's your jam).

[Rodin]

Ghostbusters 2 for me. I unironically like it better than the original. I think I might have seen it first, as a lot of the complaints about 2 are that it’s a re-hash of the first movie and I didn’t have that prejudice going in. I get thinking the original is better, but I do not understand those who think 2 is bad.

Similarly for Star Wars, growing up all my favorite lines and scenes were in Return and New Hope, with Return edging it in my personal ranking. I was very surprised that Empire is so highly regarded, as I’ve always considered it the glue which holds better movies together. I am baffled that some people rank Return lower than some of the prequel movies!

[Zevox]

[...]but the game's not really about "boss fights", and if you went in looking for that, it's not surprising that you came away disappointed.

For the record, I didn't go into it expecting anything in particular, beyond a good game. What I described is what I came away from the game feeling it is.

(xmen evolution is a gem and you can't make me think otherwise)

I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but I'm with you there. X-Men Evolution is actually my favorite X-Men show - or X-Men anything, really. It has its flaws, but it captures most of what I like about the X-Men concept really damn well, and mostly avoids the elements I don't (such as whenever time-travel and space travel get involved). And it has the one version of Wolverine that I actually really like - he works a hell of a lot better in the supporting role he has in that show than he ever does as a/the main character, IMO.

Similarly for Star Wars, growing up all my favorite lines and scenes were in Return and New Hope, with Return edging it in my personal ranking. I was very surprised that Empire is so highly regarded, as I’ve always considered it the glue which holds better movies together. I am baffled that some people rank Return lower than some of the prequel movies!

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat. While Empire is good, it was always my least favorite of the OT, with Return of the Jedi being my favorite, and I was legitimately surprised to learn how common the reverse opinion is once I saw internet discussions of the franchise. And I too cannot fathom ranking Return lower than any the prequels - or any of the other non-OT films.

[The Glyphstone]

I love that game, too. And if you can't find people to play, there is a digital version so you can play alone (if that's your jam).

I have the digital version on my phone and play it religiously, yes.

[Ionathus]

Ps. This is eventually going to become the new hot take thread.

That was my fear. I appreciate everyone who has engaged this topic objectively! Thank you all for being willing to analyze the things you liked and didn't like from a bit of a distance, as a curiosity rather than a rant!

Not a movie, but I absolutely fell in love with the board game Galaxy Trucker while I was in college, got my own copy but never had a group to play with until I moved and got a local game store. Turns out I seem to be the only human being in the state, if not on planet Earth, who actually likes this weird little game.

Galaxy Trucker is one of those games where I absolutely love the concept, but actually playing it drives me up a wall Every time I play, I get fixated on building a perfectly efficient ship, which is completely against the spirit of the game. It doesn't help that my wife isn't cutthroat enough to punish me for being a perfectionist₁

1. To those who haven't played it: Galaxy Trucker has a mechanic where one player can rush through their "building time" at the start of a round, to force the other players to finish faster than they'd like. My wife is better at building faster than I am, so in theory she'd be able to "punish" my perfectionism by catching me with a half-built ship. But she's too nice to take advantage of that.

[Mx.Silver]

Ps. This is eventually going to become the new hot take thread.

And was started by the very same person who started the old hot take thread!

We're on to your schemes, Ionathus. We're on to your schemes!

(xmen evolution is a gem and you can't make me think otherwise)

I don't think I can really recall seeing many people arguing against that, tbh. As a show the discussion was generally one of "I think it's neat" versus "I didn't watch it". So probably more an example of something having a small audience rather than a minority opinion within said audience (as is also the case for the people mentioning things like Midnight Suns).



On topic: uh, can't really recall a time where my minority opinion status has come as a surprise to me, I'm afraid. There's one or two instances I can recall where I've been surprised by being in the majority, but that's the opposite of what's being asked for.

Either way, I don't think I'm going to be beating the contrarianism allegations

[tomandtish]

This is AT THE TIME, since the movie came out 30 years ago. Several of us went and saw Pulp Fiction opening night. We came out thinking it was a very bland movie.

Even now, I think Tarantino is overrated. He's had a few movies I enjoy, but I can still take or leave him. But it isn't surprising now that mine is a minority opinion.

[Ionathus]

And was started by the very same person who started the old hot take thread!

We're on to your schemes, Ionathus. We're on to your schemes!

Guilty as charged I subsist exclusively on forum chaos and, occasionally, certain lichens.

I don't think I can really recall seeing many people arguing against that, tbh. As a show the discussion was generally one of "I think it's neat" versus "I didn't watch it". So probably more an example of something having a small audience rather than a minority opinion within said audience (as is also the case for the people mentioning things like Midnight Suns).

Fun fact, this is the only X-Men media that I had as a kid. I spent years thinking X-Men was an exclusively teenager superhero team, with the exception of Xavier, Wolverine, and Storm.

On topic: uh, can't really recall a time where my minority opinion status has come as a surprise to me, I'm afraid. There's one or two instances I can recall where I've been surprised by being in the majority, but that's the opposite of what's being asked for.

Either way, I don't think I'm going to be beating the contrarianism allegations

Of course you won't beat the allegations: we are come here to this thread to wallow in our contrarianism, after all!

Out of curiosity, what were the things you were surprised other people liked as much as you? That's kind of a fun dynamic all of its own. We went to see Everything, Everywhere, All At Once completely sight unseen, knowing nothing about it, and when it generated really positive buzz a few weeks later (and then got multiple awards), that was a very pleasant surprise!

[Rodin]

This is AT THE TIME, since the movie came out 30 years ago. Several of us went and saw Pulp Fiction opening night. We came out thinking it was a very bland movie.

Even now, I think Tarantino is overrated. He's had a few movies I enjoy, but I can still take or leave him. But it isn't surprising now that mine is a minority opinion.

I generally enjoy Tarantino's works. There's a couple I've bounced off of, like Inglorious Basterds. After a while I realized I had never seen Pulp Fiction, supposedly his magnum opus. I came out with the same opinion as you - the vignettes didn't hang together well for me and I didn't really get the point of them. It was kinda boring compared to other movies of his I've really enjoyed like Jackie Brown and Resevoir Dogs.

The other movie where I got this retroactive disappointment is Spaceballs. I love Mel Brooks' body of work. I'm a keen defender of some of his movies that are less well regarded, like Men in Tights. And I'm an enjoyer of Star Wars (admittedly not recently, but Spaceballs is a parody of the OT). So I should love it...right?

I not only consider it one of his weaker films, I outright dislike it. I don't find it funny, with the humor being hamfisted and juvenile jabs at Star Wars rather than funny in their own right. Again I refer to Men in Tights, which is hilarious if you've seen the Kevin Costner Robin Hood film that it directly parodies. Yet I enjoyed it massively despite not seeing the original until years later, which became hilarious itself as I immediately recognized all the scenes Men In Tights was mocking. Spaceballs just felt like it was trying too hard. There's a handful of quotable lines and that's all, for the rest of the time I was just bored.

In both cases it wasn't me watching and finding out that popular opinion was against me. I knew what popular opinion was, and knew I agreed with popular opinion on every other work by these directors. It was shocking to find out that I didn't enjoy one of their most prominent films.

[Errorname]

Then 3. Oh baby, 3. We gave pepper temporary powers. We took Tony completely out of the movie for about an hour. Funny joke about smokes and milk, and a dad that never came home. White washing of perhaps one of the bigger names in marvel villainy, and ultimately just deleting the character entirely. Blowing up all my own suits for some crazy reason. Iron man will return

I love the Iron Man 3 twist but the problem is that the movie's fakeout villain is way cooler and more interesting than the real villain. I don't know how you fix that. Making the real villain the Rebecca Hall character would have helped, but I still think she'd have had problems.

Fun fact, this is the only X-Men media that I had as a kid. I spent years thinking X-Men was an exclusively teenager superhero team, with the exception of Xavier, Wolverine, and Storm.

Evolution kind of ruined me on a lot of X-Men stuff, because the changes they made to the core dynamic are all pretty much universally positive and I really missed them when I tried to get into stuff with a more traditional team dynamic

[DrakeRaids]

I think my big one was game of thrones, before the television series came out I managed to get through the first four books. At the end of the 4th I just looked at it for a little while and realized that no matter how badly I was trying I just couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters. Wasn't the grittiness or the deaths or any of the other unpleasantness that turned me off it was just a simple lack of investment in where the story was going.

[Mx.Silver]

Of course you won't beat the allegations: we are come here to this thread to wallow in our contrarianism, after all!

You call this collection of posts contrarianism? Inculding the one that couldn't even get through its rant without making an appeal to being part of 'the real majority'? Others of the form "[cult classic/critical darling underperformer] didn't resonante with me, an average viewer"? Rookie stuff!


To be (slightly) less silly about it, most 'unpopular opinion' threads tend to lean more towards people seeking validation — often for opinions that are fairly commonplace — than full on contrarian stuff. Probably because it's just more common, but might also be a case of the more obstinate contrarians contrarian-ing themselves out of contributing to the 'acceptable contrarianism' space.

Yes, I do realise that's kind of what I'm doing right now

Out of curiosity, what were the things you were surprised other people liked as much as you? That's kind of a fun dynamic all of its own. We went to see Everything, Everywhere, All At Once completely sight unseen, knowing nothing about it, and when it generated really positive buzz a few weeks later (and then got multiple awards), that was a very pleasant surprise!

The one that mainly comes to mind is Lingua Ignota's music, which I was into before she "got big" — in an extremely relative sense of the term — and which I'm still a little surprised by how many waves her stuff made in the alternative/idependent music commentary side of things, given the sort of genres she works in. Granted, this was mostly around the time Sinner Get Ready dropped, which is/was probably her most approachable, 'listener-friendly' album¹ but still felt a bit surreal seeing it happen.

The anime Erased might also count, but there's some split over opinions about various aspects of it that I may fall back into the minority opinion on, so I don't know if it really does. Plus going into it would linvolve having to talk with Internet People about anime, which I try to avoid these days



¹A statement that feels like it's a joke, given what Sinner Get Ready is like, but when compared to her previous output it's rather difficult to argue against. This isn't a knock on Sinner, btw, it's a really good album, just that it's considerably less "harsh noise" than what preceded it.

[Mordar]

Oh, I have a pair...

Daredevil the movie? Actually pretty good.

Elektra? Ditto.

- M

[Errorname]

I think my big one was game of thrones, before the television series came out I managed to get through the first four books. At the end of the 4th I just looked at it for a little while and realized that no matter how badly I was trying I just couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters. Wasn't the grittiness or the deaths or any of the other unpleasantness that turned me off it was just a simple lack of investment in where the story was going.

Common problem with Feast for Crows even for people who were really into the first three, it takes a lot of big swings with new characters and secondary characters promoted to PoVs while not featuring some of the most established PoVs while also being a deeply bleak book.

I definitely liked it the least on first read, although I appreciate it more nowadays.

[gbaji]

Oh, I have a pair...

Daredevil the movie? Actually pretty good.

Elektra? Ditto.

Well. crap. Me too! Yeah. I actually enjoyed both films. They were both reasonably well writen, with good followable plots, and pretty darn good action sequences (actually quite good action sequences). I went in expecting "street level heroic stories" and that's exactly what I got. I think they mainly got panned due to Affleck having a bad rep at the time (don't even remember why), and that rubbed off on the spinoff as well. And yeah, it was also just a tricky time period for superhero films in general. I think audiences were still warming to the idea, so some products did really well, and others not so much. And it's not always clear why. Very very whimsical outcomes IMO. A few years later, it seems like the timing was right, Iron Man came out, and the rest was history.

I actually created some animalism shaman type folks in my game, using inspiration from Elektra. The whole "animals flowing out of the tatoos" thing was cool. Minor seeming thing, but for some reason, that's what I remember from it.

[Buufreak]

Oh! Oh! I got a good one, on topic and everything.

Bright.

Had modern fantasy. Felt very shadow run going in. Starred an actor I like(d). Genuinely liked the design of orcs, who I've always had a soft spot for as a race. What wasn't to like? It wasn't a perfect movie, but I genuinely enjoyed it.

Then I check with friends and reviews. It is my understanding that people flat out hated this film, and I still can't see why.

Also, forgot to hit quote, but it's fine: Tarantino is vastly overrated, and besides inglorious basterds, I don't think I've much liked any of his films.

[KorvinStarmast]

I liked Looper.

Also, forgot to hit quote, but it's fine: Tarantino is vastly overrated, and besides inglorious basterds, I don't think I've much liked any of his films.

Jackie Brown was a really good film, but part of the appeal for me is that the soundtrack was from my era of growing up (a lot of soul hits that I used to hear on the radio) and Pam Grier still had that on-screen chemistry and attractiveness that was (for me in junior high and high school when she became well known) mind boggling. Another part of the movie's texture that I liked was the bumbling mistakes of various parties in it.

Part of Tarantino's appeal to me is the dialogue: Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs had a particular style of banter that caught me ear. (True Romance did also). Inglorious Basterds would have died without Cristoph Waltz.

My wife hated Pulp Fiction, and got mad at me for watching it on VHS.

[Mordar]

Well. crap. Me too! Yeah. I actually enjoyed both films. They were both reasonably well writen, with good followable plots, and pretty darn good action sequences (actually quite good action sequences). I went in expecting "street level heroic stories" and that's exactly what I got. I think they mainly got panned due to Affleck having a bad rep at the time (don't even remember why), and that rubbed off on the spinoff as well. And yeah, it was also just a tricky time period for superhero films in general. I think audiences were still warming to the idea, so some products did really well, and others not so much. And it's not always clear why. Very very whimsical outcomes IMO. A few years later, it seems like the timing was right, Iron Man came out, and the rest was history.

I actually created some animalism shaman type folks in my game, using inspiration from Elektra. The whole "animals flowing out of the tatoos" thing was cool. Minor seeming thing, but for some reason, that's what I remember from it.

It got hate because Ben Affleck was too pretty. Of course that defies common thought, but it is the case. RDJ might have grown to be too pretty, but he had the addictions thing, so he could be liked. [/hottake]

Tattoo rocked, and the movie take on Typhoid was kind of clever. I was a little disappointed they made Stone a bad guy, though - I loved the Miller run with DD and Stone/Shaft/Claw fighting the Hand, so did not love seeing one of the good guys turned heel and tossed aside.

- M

[Ionathus]

The other movie where I got this retroactive disappointment is Spaceballs. I love Mel Brooks' body of work. I'm a keen defender of some of his movies that are less well regarded, like Men in Tights. And I'm an enjoyer of Star Wars (admittedly not recently, but Spaceballs is a parody of the OT). So I should love it...right?

I not only consider it one of his weaker films, I outright dislike it. I don't find it funny, with the humor being hamfisted and juvenile jabs at Star Wars rather than funny in their own right. Again I refer to Men in Tights, which is hilarious if you've seen the Kevin Costner Robin Hood film that it directly parodies. Yet I enjoyed it massively despite not seeing the original until years later, which became hilarious itself as I immediately recognized all the scenes Men In Tights was mocking. Spaceballs just felt like it was trying too hard. There's a handful of quotable lines and that's all, for the rest of the time I was just bored.

In both cases it wasn't me watching and finding out that popular opinion was against me. I knew what popular opinion was, and knew I agreed with popular opinion on every other work by these directors. It was shocking to find out that I didn't enjoy one of their most prominent films.

Men in Tights was a childhood film for me (yes, I realize how weird that is). It was the only Mel Brooks film I watched until I was fifteen at least. I thought it was hilarious. Having now seen several of his other works, it's my second least favorite (History of the World Part 1 didn't really do anything for me). I don't think it was because I heard popular opinions against it...I think it was just genuinely my tastes changing and broadening. Men in Tights and Spaceballs are full of "gags" in that classic Airplane! style, and something like Young Frankenstein has slightly more downplayed humor (by comparison, at least). I still like Spaceballs more, but something about Men in Tights lacks charm for me. Maybe I've seen it too much.

You call this collection of posts contrarianism?...Rookie stuff!

No, I call this collection of posts contrarianism!

Plus going into it would linvolve having to talk with Internet People about anime, which I try to avoid these days

Oof, big agree, don't get me started. I have like five people total in my real life that I trust enough to talk about anime without A) them getting weird or B) them thinking I'm weird. It's got so much cultural baggage that you have to slog through to discuss anything, and you can never know if that person's only conception of anime is some truly heinous garbage...and worse, you can never know for sure if they like that heinous garbage or not. It's such a can of worms that I usually avoid it.

"So, [Ionathus], what have you been watching recently?"
"Well there's this show on Netflix about adventurers who eat the monsters they kill, it's hilarious and really creative--
"Oh, you know. My wife and I are working our way through Only Murders In The Building..."

Oh! Oh! I got a good one, on topic and everything.

Bright.

Had modern fantasy. Felt very shadow run going in. Starred an actor I like(d). Genuinely liked the design of orcs, who I've always had a soft spot for as a race. What wasn't to like? It wasn't a perfect movie, but I genuinely enjoyed it.

Then I check with friends and reviews. It is my understanding that people flat out hated this film, and I still can't see why.

Interesting! That's one that I've never seen, only absorbed some vague opinions on it through passive osmosis. The impression I got was that most discussion of the film focused on its utterly bonkers (if anything I've heard is true) allegory to real-world race issues, which overshadowed or influenced all potential discourse about its quality as a film in itself. Visually, it looks like an interesting world. But it makes perfect sense why a film that makes such bold storytelling choices as "the orcs represent black people" would become a lightning rod for other reasons, and have its non-storytelling qualities overlooked.

I think that gets at a really interesting part of this thread: very few works that people think are "obviously bad" are bad at every level. Usually, someone on the creative team did something right. You can love the acting but hate the writing, or appreciate the costumes even if the SFX are garbage.

When literally every part of the work is bad, it starts to make me wonder if the creative team was trying to be bad on purpose. Very few things have ever made me think that: the only one that comes to mind immediately is Shyamalan's The Last Airbender, which I genuinely believe is terrible on every possible level. But even then, I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to point out to me how good the, say, sound design was.

[Mordar]

I think that gets at a really interesting part of this thread: very few works that people think are "obviously bad" are bad at every level. Usually, someone on the creative team did something right. You can love the acting but hate the writing, or appreciate the costumes even if the SFX are garbage.

When literally every part of the work is bad, it starts to make me wonder if the creative team was trying to be bad on purpose. Very few things have ever made me think that: the only one that comes to mind immediately is Shyamalan's The Last Airbender, which I genuinely believe is terrible on every possible level. But even then, I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to point out to me how good the, say, sound design was.

As a not-at-all fan or viewer of the Anime, I thought the live action Airbender had good costumes and sets.

Veering away from media, growing up I very much enjoyed SPAM. Only once I moved to a different state for college did I fully appreciate just how small a minority I was in that regard, and how dreadfully wrong the majority can be. Bet it won't be hard to guess where I am from...there's really only two choices.

- M

[gbaji]

Interesting! That's one that I've never seen, only absorbed some vague opinions on it through passive osmosis. The impression I got was that most discussion of the film focused on its utterly bonkers (if anything I've heard is true) allegory to real-world race issues, which overshadowed or influenced all potential discourse about its quality as a film in itself. Visually, it looks like an interesting world. But it makes perfect sense why a film that makes such bold storytelling choices as "the orcs represent black people" would become a lightning rod for other reasons, and have its non-storytelling qualities overlooked.

Huh. That's... interesting. I also got a very Shadowrun feel from the film, and thought it was very good for that reason.

If folks looked at the Orcs and Elves in that film, and drew some kind of direct correllary to any particular modern world racial groups, they brought that correlation to the game with them, and it exists entirely inside their own minds. Which... you know... speaks volumes about those people that they would make that correlation in the first place.

I guess the moral is that no matter how fantastic your setting, and how completely and obviously disconnected it is from the "real world", some people just can't let go and just enjoy the fantasy (and you know, just take it at face value for what it is). Yes. There was racial conflict in the film (or maybe more correctly "species conflict"). But it included fantasy races that simply don't exist in our world. If folks applied their own real world stereotpes to that... it's on them.

It was actually a quite good film. Bit tropish in spots, but what good film isn't? I would strongly recommend watching it and not being scared away cause you heard something bad about it.

[DavidSh]

Veering away from media, growing up I very much enjoyed SPAM. Only once I moved to a different state for college did I fully appreciate just how small a minority I was in that regard, and how dreadfully wrong the majority can be. Bet it won't be hard to guess where I am from...there's really only two choices.

- M

Probably some Pacific Island. Hawaii seems more likely than, say, Guam, just because of the relative populations.

Spam isn't really any worse than scrapple, and keeps better. Given the choice I'd go with scrapple just because of my Pennsylvania heritage.