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2024-05-08, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
This is quite a wonderful fight. I would not count Calder out quite yet. I am curious if Calder is psionic. That would explain how he could control Sunny while his body was in stasis.
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2024-05-08, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona (love it)
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2024-05-08, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-05-08, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-05-08, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Well that's my headcanon, I'm not exactly going to send the Pinkertons at anyone who has a different one. *shrug*
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-05-08, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Bit of a short one, but heh, it really is great seeing how competent this squabbling band of quirky idiots have become over the years. Seriously, this is just badass, they are a well-oiled machine.
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2024-05-08, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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- Pensacola, Florida
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
"Thursdays. I could never get the hang of Thursdays."-Arthur Dent, The Hitchhiker's Guide
"I had a normal day once. It was a Thursday." -Will Bailey, The West Wing
Roy will be Xykon's Final Boss
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2024-05-08, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Heal is a 6th-level spell, and Durkon's been casting 7th and 8th-level spells for quite some time. I'm not sure if he still has 8th-level slots considering he lost two levels in a row from being rezzed but he should still be very much able to cast Heal.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-05-08, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- The sticks
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2024-05-08, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Good news! That goes both ways. After all, just as a big bad foe can keep fighting at peak performance until they drop dead, same applies to the PCs: Can you imagine how annoying it would be if losing hit points made you substantially weaker? An early setback would mean an inevitable defeat, and whichever side got advantage early would keep it the entire fight, no come-from-behind victories. Sounds frustrating. Just a matter of fairness: Your characters can still fight and run and all that just as good at 1 HP as they could at 100, why shouldn't the bosses get the same luxury?
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2024-05-08, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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- Morocco
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2024-05-08, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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2024-05-08, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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- Eastern TN
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2024-05-08, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I wouldn't count him out at all.
Spoiler: Themes and PredictionA central theme to this entire story - and D&D as a whole for that matter - has been "we can accomplish far more by working together, despite our diverse perspectives and backgrounds, than we ever could alone, and everyone's earnest contributions matter." We've seen this feature in every book (most recently in Utterly Dwarfed). This is also why Serini's idea of tricking her own party into cooperating resulted in the most powerful gate defense by far and the only one that actually held Team Evil off for a decent amount of time.
But Serini still has a flaw to overcome - well, several, but I'll focus on this one - i.e. not thinking that Soon's contribution mattered. (More Soon's fault than hers, but still.) If the gang beats Calder without the paladins even getting involved, she'll have been proven right to think that, and it will undermine this core theme of the story. (Not to mention wasting perfectly good setup.)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-08, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah Roy points that out here
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0617.htmlLast edited by littlebum2002; 2024-05-08 at 10:06 AM.
Avatar by Gurgleflep
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2024-05-08, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Also: About 25 years ago I saw a prolonged internet discussion about wound effects.
One side said, "Wounds that don't drop you from shock have no significant effect in the combat where you are wounded, because adrenaline is a wonderful thing", that side had lots of studies by the defense department, FBI data, and historical data like why the US Army swapped to the .45 pistol in 1911.
The other side said, "Of course wounds impair you" and had lots of frantic hand waving and no actual evidence whatsoever. Nor could anyone on that side find any evidence despite looking, nor any anecdotal examples other than fiction. It simply did not exist.
If you are wounded, but still in the fight where you were wounded and still fighting at all, then you are close enough to full efficiency that any impairment isn't worth representing in game. Wound impairment is not, in fact, realistic. It is a "realism" rule people add to some systems that makes the game both less fun and actually makes it less realistic. There are lots of things that are unrealistic about HP (wounds aren't cummulative that way, and long term effect and mortality isn't all that closely related to whether or not you go into shock, and serious wounds don't heal as fast as they do in D&D land), but lack of wound penalties is something they got right.
Edited to add: Just because a rule is unrealistic does not make it bad. The various unrealistic aspects of HP (simple, cumulative, and fast healing with no long term effects) are mostly good for the game.Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2024-05-08 at 10:16 AM.
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2024-05-08, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
As Dan Jenkins once said: "You've gotta play hurt."
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-05-08, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-05-08, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Not the only time, either: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0873.html
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2024-05-08, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
It's definitely a theme I can see the Giant (and any similarly-versed DM) resonating with. And agreed, both the Goblins and even the Gods are yet more examples of its power. It's teamwork all the way down.
In addition, Soon's contribution has already been even more effective than anyone is giving him credit for:
SpoilerHis faith in Paladins established the institution that empowered and reinforced a good man like O-Chul, who is directly responsible for just about everything good the MitD has or will do in this story. Without him, the Order would have already lost, and we don't even know what MitD is going to do to save the day now in future.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-08, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
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- Florida
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
"Hell, the dwarf..." Actually, Hell was the human shaped goddess who created the vampire dwarf, who doesn't have a proper name, much like Frankenstein's monster.
90% of a good villain speech is timing, you want a moment of power, or even better, turnaround. Which is why Thog has a great villain speech (last row), despite barely being verbal.
I was kind of assuming he has a snake-like jaw that's supposed to be able to open to a huge angle.
I am... the good guy here?The thing is the Azurites don't use a single color; they use a single hue. The use light blue, dark blue, black, white, glossy blue, off-white with a bluish tint. They sky's the limit, as long as it's blue.
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2024-05-08, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
He would, at least, have had the benefit of all "Mass Protection From" spells cast on the party.
I'm reminded of Miles Vorkosigan's thought about his father in A Civil Campaign. "Miles paused in momentary admiration of his father's ability to deliver lines like that. It put him in mind of the way a combat drop shuttle delivered pinpoint incendiaries." And Miles himself is no slouch at oratory... even not counting his babbling while on fast penta.
: "My name is Roy Greenhilt! You killed my father's mentor! Prepare to... become un-undead!"
: "Whatever, Redsword. Why don't you come back later when —"
: "My name is Roy Greenhilt! You killed my father's mentor! Prepare to become un-undead!"
: "Look, kid, you're just not in my —"
: "My name is Roy Greenhilt! You killed my father's mentor! Prepare to become un-undead!"
: "You know, you're kind of monotonous?"
I'd missed that. Thank you. Catcher in the Rye was on my parents' bookshelf, and I recall having skimmed it when I was a teenager because I'd heard that it was racy, but found it uninteresting.
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2024-05-08, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Actually, Hell is a plane consisting of nine levels which serves as the Lawful Evil afterlife and whose inhabitants are locked into an eternal Blood War with the denizens of the Infinite Layers of the Abyss.
Hel is who you're thinking of.
Then with the knowledge of that pun, you might appreciate my response to it better as well:
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2024-05-08, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2024
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2024-05-08, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Well, it did take the entire Order of the Scribble to take him and his cult down. He doesn't have any mind-controlled cultists here, true, but he's still not exactly a pushover on his own.
And we know she's got a lot of self-loathing and is probably rationalizing the OotS beating her as far less an accomplishment than it really is. (Although admittedly they didn't quite beat her in a straight fight.) Defeating Calder on the other hand is something she might consider more impressive.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-05-08, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2024
Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah that was Calder plus the whole cult though. Also she was able to move him into the tomb and maintain his bondage for decades. That's the kind of thing that makes you start to think of something as "not a problem" Plus, Roy and Belkar are actively dismissing him as a mere obstacle to Xykon. Yeah Calder is arguing pretty hard against that now, so it could go either way.
Last edited by Taragorn; 2024-05-08 at 01:19 PM.
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2024-05-08, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
I would expect that one of the casters helped to move him here after he got stuck in the stasis field though. Or Serini just built the dungeon around him. Remember, Calder had already surrendered at that point, so it only would have really required the right spell to seal him in it.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-05-08, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
She didn't beat Calder, her whole team did. I'm not even sure he's part of the defenses really (how would she seal him up again alone, when he's not a volunteer?) If freed, why wouldn't he just rampage through the complex and smash up all her other defenses trying to find a way out? It seems like this was just the ideal place to store him once he surrendered, and it was supposed to be true stasis except lol SR.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-05-08, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- The sticks
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
As an aside, this is exactly how monsters worked in combat in the class but now largely forgotten Tunnels and Trolls. Once you got the advantage, you were almost assured of victory (and you'd take minimal additional damage doing it). But PCs didn't work that way. They were a lot more fragile but their capabilities were much less affected by taking damage.
So, the way fights generally worked was the monsters started out a lot stronger than the PCs. The PCs then tried desperately to hang on, blowing resources (poisoned weapons were a big thing, plus spells and anything else you had) at the start to whittle the monsters down to the point it was an even fight. After that, as long as the PCs were still standing, they could generally wrap things up via attrition. Fights started scary, but all the excitement was over quickly as you'd either lost or it became boring within a couple rounds, and then you'd have 4-6 boring rounds to go of just mopping up."You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2024-05-08, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2014
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- Brooklyn NY
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Re: OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread
Poor Calder, he thinks he's the last boss, but he's very clearly shaping up to be the mid dungeon boss that burns resources ahead of the last boss.
Loving the little details throughout the comic- Minrah playing combat medic with Bloodfeast, Serini actually fighting a non hero. Very nice to see :p
As an aside, is anyone else getting worried for Bloodfeast?
The doors look too small for him to get out of this room, and if Xykon and Co. show up while Sunny is out, the Order might end up walled off.
But Bloodfeast might be too big for a wall of force to contain, and Redcloak said something about monsters that Lawbot couldn't contain...