The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)

[Feathersnow]

That's fair. I'm only 1k EXP from leveling, when I get my second soulmeld even by that reading.

Meet Snixithrax! They are a mercenary who was hired by a consortium of interested businessmen to acquire the Noctuary. They specialize in bounty hunting, and feel their skills might be complementary to yours in the quest.


Edit: I misread something. The build works okay. Soulmelds shaped is half age category rounded up. I built a young (age category 3) dragon who can shape 2 soulmelds before class levels, then gains access to a third when their PrC bumps them up two virtual age category at PrC level 7, which I have not yet attained. However, I did a bunch of other things wrong and had to fix them. Thank you for bearing with me.

[remetagross]

I have included a picture of One-Ear. The link might not be stable, but I'm not sure how else to show you all.

I cannot help but note two ears here. Is one of them a prosthetics?

[paradox26]

One Ear is too awesome a cat to only have one ear. A second ear spontaneously grew. Lol.

[namo]

Paladin of Tyranny 4 / Crusader 2 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4 / Ruby Knight Vindicator +9

This build is pretty cool. But I see a minor problem: how do you meet the skills prerequisite (Hide 10, Move Silently 10) for Shadowlord?
None of your classes has Move Silently as a class skill, which you need to have a skill rank cap at 10. (Also most of your Hide ranks would be purchased cross-class since only RKV has it as a class skill, so your current skill point total doesn't work.) Either a dip or the (crappy) feat that gives you an extra class skill would fix that.

And you'll be stuck in Assassin's Stance, to keep qualifying for the PrC (which is not a terrible thing). Except if one of the DM rulings goes against this.

(On a separate note, beware Anticipate Teleportation, the bane of Shadow pouncers!)

[Feathersnow]

I cannot help but note two ears here. Is one of them a prosthetics?

It grew back when she became a half-troll, but it was already her use-name, and changing it or using her True Name were both unbecoming.

[Aegis013]

This build is pretty cool. But I see a minor problem: how do you meet the skills prerequisite (Hide 10, Move Silently 10) for Shadowlord?
None of your classes has Move Silently as a class skill, which you need to have a skill rank cap at 10. (Also most of your Hide ranks would be purchased cross-class since only RKV has it as a class skill, so your current skill point total doesn't work.) Either a dip or the (crappy) feat that gives you an extra class skill would fix that.

And you'll be stuck in Assassin's Stance, to keep qualifying for the PrC (which is not a terrible thing). Except if one of the DM rulings goes against this.

(On a separate note, beware Anticipate Teleportation, the bane of Shadow pouncers!)

You're correct on the skills and I appreciate you pointing it out. I was working backwards on skill expenditures and overlooked the cross-class limit. I'll have to work out how to get the Move Silently without compromising the things I actually want out of the build. I think with the Hide, as long as I invest all of my first level of RKV into Hide it should work out. Since at 6th level, I'd have 4.5 max cross-class ranks, and I get 9 skill points from RKV and can afford to shove 6 into Hide to bring it up to the new non-cross cap of 10. Additionally, what feat are you referring to? I can give up Extra Turning for a feat at 3rd level (taking Power Attack at 15 instead), if there's one that I can qualify for that gives Move Silently I'll be set.

Agreed, being in Assassin's Stance continuously wouldn't be too bad, though I'm not certain that you lose the PrC abilities after you get in by RAW (with the exception of Complete Warrior PrCs) so I'll await DM clarification on this point, since Aura of Perfect Order is more useful generally (and I didn't want to take Aura of Tyranny because it explicitly damages allies, which could be considered open hostility between PCs without agreement).

I have no answer to Anticipate Teleportation other than to abandon my primary mode of combat and just try to get Divine Surge to show up as often as possible and increase damage output with RKV's Divine Fury. If an enemy has Anticipate Teleport or it's Greater variant, my character will be neutered, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

[Dakrsidder]

I'm not certain that you lose the PrC abilities after you get in by RAW

DM already ruled you just need it upon qualification, hence why some ppl are training out of their prereqs afterwards

[namo]

I found this thread of interest to you, Aegis. But it's trickier than I thought.
Apprentice (DMG) only works with a small list of skills. There's Skill knowledge (UA), but it's tied to an alternate skill system; probably your best bet though, ask the DM for permission. Flexible Mind from Dragon Mag requires you to be Chaotic, no go here.
In the end, swapping a feat for a class skill is bad deal, so hopefully it gets allowed.

And agreed, Anticipate Teleportation is unlikely to come up more than once or twice in the course of an entire campaign, so it's not a big deal; plus you'll have companions to dispel or deal with it.

[Archmage1]

Yeah... the retraining rules can be pretty funny.

In general, they need to be a feat that could have been taken at the time you got the feat you were retraining(So, say, you couldn't retrain your level 3 feat into Leadership, as that requires a level 6 or higher feat)

Now, class feature retraining is fairly clear: The new choice can't make any of your later choices illegal(So if you are trying to retrain a class feat that is being used as a prereq for another class, you are out of luck). However, feat retraining(Which does not include bonus feats for Fighter, Monk, or Wizard) has no such restriction. Any prereqs need to have been met at the time of the choice, not the time of retraining.

Or... you could laugh in the face of logic and reason(In as much as those apply to RAW), and abuse Embrace the Dark Chaos/Shun the Dark chaos to retrain feats.
Of course, that option does explicitly call out needing to meet prereqs for prestige classes until it meets all prereqs.
On the bright side, for a mere 4900 gold, you can retrain any feat into any other feat for which your character qualifies at the moment, rather than when it was first earned. You want to turn your 1st level dodge feat into leadership? Via the power of the Abyss, it can be done! (Yes, there is a lot more cheese you can get up to with this one. Infinite feats, elven proficiency swapping, the list goes on and on.)

And depending on the source(Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, and I think the Book of Exalted Deeds), losing the prereqs lose you the benefits of the class. But per the DMG, you only need to qualify for the first level(Which is great for the dragon disciple, who would otherwise be caught in a paradox at level 10).

[paradox26]

DM already ruled you just need it upon qualification, hence why some ppl are training out of their prereqs afterwards

Which book has the rules for retraining? Sounds like something I could make use of.

[Archmage1]

Derp, I make that epic post about retraining, and don't mention the source.

PHB 2, page 193.

[paradox26]

Ah, thanks for that Archmage1. I was going to go searching in Unearthed Arcana.

[Aegis013]

Requesting the feat Skill Knowledge from UA (from pg 81), which I realize I will need after Namo pointed out the issue with the skills in my build.

I highly doubt a feat to get a specific skill as a class-skill will cause any issues, but I will ask anyway. Once that's cleared up, I'll recalculate my build's skill expenditure.

As an aside, thank you again Namo. I found that thread too, but Move Silently seems to be an especially challenging skill to obtain without dipping a class.

[Book Wombat]

Requesting this Arch Psion conversion for 3.5 (thanks to Dakrsidder), and the Flaws Cold-blooded (Dragon #324) and Light Sensitivity (Dragon #328).
(Since retraining is allowed, will be doing that for the prereq feats.)

Also, thoughts on applying a Sizing-equivalent on Planar Ring Gates (Planar Handbook) although they aren't a weapon (so diameter 5ft or smaller)? Thinking of mostly using battlefield-control powers for support, and a self-contained demiplane to launch a variety of objects if that is fine.
One last thing for now, how many years would have approximately passed since we reached level 17?

[BelGareth]

Requesting the feat Skill Knowledge from UA (from pg 81), which I realize I will need after Namo pointed out the issue with the skills in my build.

I highly doubt a feat to get a specific skill as a class-skill will cause any issues, but I will ask anyway. Once that's cleared up, I'll recalculate my build's skill expenditure.

As an aside, thank you again Namo. I found that thread too, but Move Silently seems to be an especially challenging skill to obtain without dipping a class.

From this thread
Alternative ways to get class skills:

o Move Silently

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Nightbringer Initiate (feat) - Magic of Eberron
Viletooth Lizardfolk (race) - Dragon Magic

[Aegis013]

From this thread
Alternative ways to get class skills:

o Move Silently

Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Nightbringer Initiate (feat) - Magic of Eberron
Viletooth Lizardfolk (race) - Dragon Magic

I'm not a Sorcerer or Druid so the first two are unavailable to my build.

Actually, being a Viletooth Lizardfolk would work. I'd lose the Human bonus feat, but I wouldn't have to take the Skill Knowledge feat, so it evens out. I think I'll just swap races, since I'll just have to swap character art. I originally looked over it due to the value of the bonus feat, but here it works out since it alleviates the need for a feat.

Thanks.

[BelGareth]

I'm not a Sorcerer or Druid so the first two are unavailable to my build.

Actually, being a Viletooth Lizardfolk would work. I'd lose the Human bonus feat, but I wouldn't have to take the Skill Knowledge feat, so it evens out. I think I'll just swap races, since I'll just have to swap character art. I originally looked over it due to the value of the bonus feat, but here it works out since it alleviates the need for a feat.

Thanks.

I wasn't thinking any of those would work, maybe the feat, but this is a surprise! lol

[Aegis013]

Oh wait, Lizardfolk have 2 RHD and LA+1 and Viletooth doesn't adjust that, so nevermind. Back to Human hoping for Skill Knowledge feat.

[chaincomplex]

Meet Snixithrax! They are a mercenary who was hired by a consortium of interested businessmen to acquire the Noctuary. They specialize in bounty hunting, and feel their skills might be complementary to yours in the quest.

Added.

Agreed, being in Assassin's Stance continuously wouldn't be too bad, though I'm not certain that you lose the PrC abilities after you get in by RAW (with the exception of Complete Warrior PrCs) so I'll await DM clarification on this point, since Aura of Perfect Order is more useful generally (and I didn't want to take Aura of Tyranny because it explicitly damages allies, which could be considered open hostility between PCs without agreement).

You don't need to be in Assassin's Stance continuously per RAW, you only need to meet the PrC prerequisites upon entry.

Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class.

In fact, it's fairly unambiguous you can even continue without meeting the prerequisites.

Requesting the feat Skill Knowledge from UA (from pg 81), which I realize I will need after Namo pointed out the issue with the skills in my build.

Granted. Remember you can retrain bad PrC entry feats per PHB2, which has a (relatively trivial) cost.

Requesting this Arch Psion conversion for 3.5 (thanks to Dakrsidder), and the Flaws Cold-blooded (Dragon #324) and Light Sensitivity (Dragon #328).

Granted on Arch Psion and Light Sensitivity. I'm trying to parse Cold-Blooded, does it apply e.g. on each ray of a scorching ray? Anyone have any clue what RAW here is?

Also, thoughts on applying a Sizing-equivalent on Planar Ring Gates (Planar Handbook) although they aren't a weapon (so diameter 5ft or smaller)? Thinking of mostly using battlefield-control powers for support, and a self-contained demiplane to launch a variety of objects if that is fine.

Concept OK, but price estimate is pretty nutty. The planar ring gate has cost equivalent to a +10 weapon, so it follows that sizing, as a +1 enhancement, should cost the difference between a +11 and +10 weapon. Want to justify an alternate estimate?

Whoops, dropped a 0. Let's try this again. The planar ring gate has cost somewhere between +5 and +6. Thus sizing, a +1 enhancement, should cost another increment. The cheap version goes from +6 to +7 for a still extraordinarily expensive cost.

I don't think this sounds right. So, now, do you have an alternate estimate?

One last thing for now, how many years would have approximately passed since we reached level 17?

Up to you entirely.

[Taelas]

Aereni Focus from PGtE gives you any one class skill, with a +3 bonus, plus it counts as Skill Focus. Unfortunately, it's got Elf as a prerequisite, and is 1st level only.

EDIT: Never mind, ninja'd by the DM approving Skill Knowledge.

[Archmage1]

Added.
Granted on Arch Psion and Light Sensitivity. I'm trying to parse Cold-Blooded, does it apply e.g. on each ray of a scorching ray? Anyone have any clue what RAW here is?

Each ray would be a different effect, so yes. At level 20, it doesn't matter much. :P

[chaincomplex]

True that it doesn't matter much. I'd just rather not approve material that's incoherent by RAW.

I think your interpretation is correct, the problem is that it also applies to fell drain magic missile. Of course, as fell drain is on the table, I suppose I'm OK with granting Cold-Blooded.

[Archmage1]

True that it doesn't matter much. I'd just rather not approve material that's incoherent by RAW.

I think your interpretation is correct, the problem is that it also applies to fell drain magic missile. Of course, as fell drain is on the table, I suppose I'm OK with granting Cold-Blooded.

It is, sadly, somewhat ambiguous.
Scorching ray has the line: "Effect: One or more Rays." As each ray is a separate instance, it would, logically, apply separately.

Magic Missile, in comparison, has Targets: Up to five creatures. So rather than fell drain being on a per missile basis, it is a per target basis.

Of course, this then falls apart a bit with fell drain scorching ray, but we don't really want magic missile being more powerful than energy drain.

This seems like a time to consult the DM, as either way we are setting ourselves up for pain on the other spell. Or just go with a flat effect per spell, rather than anything else.(Although, that does lead to the fun question of fell drain magic missile hitting five different targets...) Luckily, I hear you have an ok relationship with them, and can probably ask them to make a ruling?

[chaincomplex]

The DM and I got into an argument and aren't currently on speaking terms. I'll check back later if he's come up with a ruling.

[Aegis013]

You don't need to be in Assassin's Stance continuously per RAW, you only need to meet the PrC prerequisites upon entry

Granted. Remember you can retrain bad PrC entry feats per PHB2, which has a (relatively trivial) cost.

I will take you up on that. Retraining away Shape Soulmeld: Blink Shirt (since a standard action 10ft D-Door that ends your turn is questionable), Dodge, Mobility, Blind-Fight, Spring Attack, and Skill Knowledge in exchange for: Improved Initiative, Willing Deformity, Deformity (Madness), Darkstalker, and Extra Turning x2.

I lose a first level paladin spell slot, but gain Immunity to Mind-Affecting. An excellent trade in my estimation.

[Book Wombat]

Granted on Arch Psion and Light Sensitivity. I'm trying to parse Cold-Blooded, does it apply e.g. on each ray of a scorching ray? Anyone have any clue what RAW here is?

I'd assume +2 damage per instance (so each ray) like Archmage1. I can also switch if it is too much of an issue.

Concept OK, but price estimate is pretty nutty. The planar ring gate has cost equivalent to a +10 weapon, so it follows that sizing, as a +1 enhancement, should cost the difference between a +11 and +10 weapon. Want to justify an alternate estimate?

Whoops, dropped a 0. Let's try this again. The planar ring gate has cost somewhere between +5 and +6. Thus sizing, a +1 enhancement, should cost another increment. The cheap version goes from +6 to +7 for a still extraordinarily expensive cost.

I don't think this sounds right. So, now, do you have an alternate estimate?

The MIC enchantment (p. 43) is a flat +5000 gp cost, so for an unorthodox "weapon" multiplied by 1.5 perhaps +7500 gp?

Up to you entirely.

Hmm, alright.

[Yas392]

@chaincomplex Extending increase reaches on both sides if we enhance it on one side of the quarterstaff from my reading. Is that how you read it?

@anyone Something about stat items nags at me. I am not sure of this ruling. If we combine say a cloak of charisma +6 and a phoenix cloak, the cloak of charisma does not get the 50% increase, right?

[Archmage1]

@anyone Something about stat items nags at me. I am not sure of this ruling. If we combine say a cloak of charisma +6 and a phoenix cloak, the cloak of charisma does not get the 50% increase, right?

Correct. The "common" bonuses don't. These are stat boosts, resistance boosts, deflection, natural armor, and probably a couple of others. But it has to be in the right slot(I believe). This is covered by a thing towards the end of MIC, but I don't remember the exact page.

[Taelas]

Correct. The "common" bonuses don't. These are stat boosts, resistance boosts, deflection, natural armor, and probably a couple of others. But it has to be in the right slot(I believe). This is covered by a thing towards the end of MIC, but I don't remember the exact page.

The table is on page 234.

[Zarthrax]

Jiang Liao, Heir of Ashardalon

The basics are there, just need to add fluff which is slow to arrive as always. I did buy off the bloodline levels so I'm only 17th level, but I should still be okay for combat and suchlike.