Results 1 to 30 of 30
Thread: My Math-Fu is failing me
-
2024-04-15, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
My Math-Fu is failing me
So I'm going to have a character with a +5 Defending weapon soon, with a magic price of 72,000 on top of the weapon itself. If my next improvement were to make it a +6 Defending weapon, how do I calculate that cost? The +6 enhancement puts it at epic, but still overall a +7 weapon. Does it jump to the +7 epic price or is it epic +6 +regular +7?
-
2024-04-15, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Nottingham, England
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
It would jump to the price for a +7 epic weapon:
Originally Posted by ELH p.129
-
2024-04-17, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Thanks, that's the answer I was afraid of.
-
2024-04-17, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
What is your goal with the +6 enhancement? One way around the epic limit is to give the weapon bane. Against particular enemies the enhancement bonus is treated as +2 higher. This would allow you to get a +7 AC with a +5 xbane defending weapon against particular creatures. Otherwise, you could start adding custom spells to the weapon like casting divine favor or something.
-
2024-04-17, 05:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Nottingham, England
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Yeah, the price for getting epic enhancements on a weapon which already has special abilities always seemed unfair to me. With a weapon which is only +6 total before going epic the difference between calculating the two "sides" separately or together isn't that great, but with a +10 weapon it's massive. Might be worth asking your DM about it, this is one of the major ways martials get screwed compared to casters at epic.
Given that there are 31 categories of bane weapon this is going to be of limited use unless you know the campaign is going to be really heavy on one type of foe. There are some bane weapon spells though; Undead Bane Weapon (SpC) lasts for an hour per level but obviously only works against undead, Bladebane (UE) only lasts a round per level and costs 500GP per casting but that's nothing compared to the cost of an actual epic weapon. If Dragon Magazine content is allowed the best general option is Bane Weapon (#297, p.47) which lasts ten minutes per level and doesn't have a material component cost.
-
2024-04-17, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
-
2024-04-17, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Stacking all of the possible bane enhancements on a weapon crystal (MIC) is quite cheap.
Also, grab a tooth of Leraje for a 20 hour greater magic weapon +5.
Also also, the kakita katana from OA can net you a +2 non-magical enhancement bonus to attack and damage. It's non-magical, so it doesn't apply against the cost for any magical enhancements you add, but it is an enhancement bonus, which qualifies for magical enhancement in the first place.
Now all you have to pay for on that weapon is defending, but you gain all of the benefits of a +5 bane (everything) weapon.
Or if you want, you could take a raptor arrow, add sizing and morphing, and it now has bane (everything), doesn't require any weapon crystals, and since it can be enhanced as ammo, all enhancements are 1/50 the cost.Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2024-04-17 at 10:25 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-17, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
-
2024-04-17, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Defending explicitly stacks with all other forms of AC bonus. Couldn't you just get a whole bunch of +1 defending weapons (sleeve blades, wrist blades, knee blades, boot blades, braid blades, etc, all of which have bayonets) and pay for a Chained permanency'd greater magic weapon?
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-17, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
-
2024-04-17, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Nottingham, England
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Last edited by Biggus; 2024-04-17 at 07:38 PM.
-
2024-04-19, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
We're not going to see eye to eye that multiple defending bonuses will stack...It's a nice idea and quite imbalancing. While technically, extremely technically RAW, most people can tell that RAI is that multiple defending bonuses won't stack with themselves, but will all others...
I agree. If something like that were allowed, I'm not going to DM a game for a speed run.
The campaign it's in will be going to at least 40th, and the DM has houseruled so far that epic weapon enhancements are still bonus squared times 2,000 instead of the 20,000 upcharge. I'm actually trying to talk him out of or at least altering a little bit for balance. I want the bonus because at some point that will be cheaper than upgrading something else from a +14 to a +15.
-
2024-04-19, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Getting a decent AC at high levels is a losing proposition. It's ridiculously expensive if you don't stack cheap defending weapons.
Why not make yourself un-attackable, instead? Lots of miss chances, lots of ranks in and bonuses to Hide, negating sight and special senses, stacking tons of penalties and negative status effects on opponents, using decoys to force enemies to attack things other than you and to waste actions and resources, and so on. It can be very expensive at low levels, but far less expensive than decent AC at high levels.
Alchemical items alone can do a lot for you, and they're much cheaper at high levels, especially if you can craft them yourself.
Arrows can be used as melee weapons, so...
Alternatively, enhance a morphing weapon as a raptor arrow.Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2024-04-19 at 11:55 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-19, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Err... No?
The wielder of a morphing weapon can reshape it into any other weapon of the same type (light, one-handed, or two-handed) as a standard action. For instance, a morphing longsword could become a battleaxe or a composite longbow. If a single weapon created with the morphing property becomes a double weapon, only one end of the double weapon has the weapon's magical bonus. If a double weapon created with the morphing property becomes a single weapon, it can have the properties of either end of the original double weapon.
The properties of the other end are dormant but not lost; they become active again when the morphing weapon once again becomes a double weapon.⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-19, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-19, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I hate to do this but to his point, a masterwork arrow used to stab someone (Legolas was a big fan of it so it's got some precedent) would be a masterwork improvised, unless there's something specific that I don't know of. But to your point, just because anything can really be used as an improvised weapon, doesn't mean it's classified as a melee weapon. That's what makes the difference.
-
2024-04-19, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
-
2024-04-19, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- New York
- Gender
-
2024-04-19, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
It's not explicit, but something I think is implied by the rules for masterwork and improvised weapons:
Originally Posted by Masterwork WeaponsOriginally Posted by Improvised WeaponsI made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2024-04-19, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Arrows are not built to be used as melee weapons. A masterwork arrow's masterwork-ness lies in things like a well-balanced shaft, choice feathers used in the fletching, extra care put into attaching the pieces together, the notch that rides on the bowstring being of exactly the ideal depth, etc - things that improve its ability to be shot out of a bow and hit a target. None of these things matter when using it as a melee weapon, and thus it is no more a masterwork melee weapon than a masterwork breastplate that you hit someone with.
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2024-04-19, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Is it though? Oil of magic vestment +5 is only 3k, potion of shield of faith +5 is only 900, potion of barkskin +5 is only 1.2k. You don't need maxed out AC vs every creature.
Mithril full plate +3: 11-14 AC; 19,650gp
Animated tower shield +1: 5 AC; 9,180gp
Ring of protection +2: 2 AC; 8000gp
Amulet of natural armor +2: 2 AC; 8000gp
44,830gp for 30-33 AC. WBL at 13 is 150,000gp. A glabrezu is CR 13 sitting at 31 strength with an AB of +20. A young adult dragon has a CR of 13 with an AB of +27. When you come across an enemy you need more AC for, it's extremely easy to spend 4.5k to boost your AC by +7 from potions changing the 33 into 40 AC. But that's a single CR appropriate monster rather than a group EL appropriate encounter.
-
2024-04-19, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
-
2024-04-19, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Nottingham, England
- Gender
Re: My Math-Fu is failing me
Oh I see! If he's already houseruled it, suggesting he adopt your houseruled "middle way" rather than the ELH rules seems worth a try.
I did consider reducing the epic multiplier to x5 in my games but decided not to as it meant that some epic-bonus items would cost less than 200,000GP. That's clearly not a problem for your DM though.
Fair play for trying to persuade the DM to increase the price of items, not many players would do that even if it would cause imbalance (+30 sword anyone?).
Out of curiosity, have they houseruled that all epic items don't trigger the x10 multiplier?
-
2024-04-21, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018