Why did Elan let Tarquin fall?

[AGD]

In 936 Elan lets Tarquin fall. Tarquin now continues to live and reign his empires, until the Order takes care of him in "Order of the Stick 2: Order Stickier".

But Tarquin was at Elans Mercy in that scene. He could have taken care of Tarquin right away. I am not even talking about killing. He could have locked him in a room of the Mechane. And then he could giving him later over to Ian Starshine and Amun-Zora, when he knew, that Amun-Zora stands against Tarquin.

Why didn't Elan anything like that. The only expanition, that I could come up with, is that he knew, that it was most likely from a narrative point of view, that Tarquin would escape and maybe killing some crewmembers of the mechane on the way, but that seems a bit far fetched to me.

[factotum]

Elan doesn't kill helpless people. As for putting him in prison, how would he actually contain him once he was back on deck? Tarquin had already shown himself as capable of out-fighting pretty much the whole Order minus Vaarsuvius, and the only Order members on deck at the time were said wizard, a crippled Haley and Elan himself. If he lets him fall, he can concentrate on his immediate problem of preventing the world getting destroyed, then come back and deal with Tarquin at his own time and place.

[Gwynfrid]

Factotum is correct - Tarquin wouldn't have been at Elan's mercy once back on deck.

But, even assuming he somehow manages to truly subdue Tarquin:

- If Tarquin had been locked up, he would have been able to do all sorts of tricks while on the ship. Heck, he was even explaining that to Elan himself. In the OOTS- verse, the rules of narrative drama are just as valid to explain events as are the laws of physics and of magic. Both Elan and Tarquin know this, and that's exactly what gave Tarquin a chance to get to such a position of power. Under the rules of narrative drama, keeping a villain locked up for long is virtually impossible.

- There is also a more down-to-earth explanation, if that helps: Keeping Tarquin, there was a strong chance that his allies would have come for him (at that point, Elan doesn't know that Vaarsuvius will be able to block teleportation towards the ship). Letting him go free, they're less likely, at least in the short term, to support him in a futile quest for revenge while they want to pursue other interests (as evidenced by their bailing out when they were personally at risk). So, Elan's decision is fitting narrativley, and also shrewd from a tactical perspective.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Because anything other than letting him fall was what Tarquin wanted - all the stories are then still revolving around him.

[deworde]

Storm's basically nailed this one.

Consider that the core conflict of Blood Runs In The Family is all about the nature of the narrative. Tarquin is obsessed with using the narrative to further his control, but is also obsessed with controlling that narrative ("It didn't go right, so we are going to do it again")

By contrast, Elan is interested in a good story (most of his more bizarre actions being driven by this), but has never shown any desire to put himself first within it, quite the reverse in fact.

The reason Elan triumphs when he lets his father fall is because he recognises that this part of the story, at least for the Order, is over. Tarquin might be ruling a tyrannical empire, but that's still a sub-plot around a supporting character (him).

Tarquin completely misunderstands their place in the story, which is why he fails. After all, the surprise twist where he kills Haley is exactly what you'd expect from a plot revolving around him and Elan.

Elan handing over this sub-plot to a gaggle of D-listers is the actual solution to his early dilemma of how to beat his father without making him seem like a badass.

[Quild]

I think Tarquin was overestimating his ability to have a direct influence on Elan from a cell (or from anywhere) and maybe Elan realized it without mentionning.

The biggest risk is to have Tarquin make the classic move of the just saved villain and try to kill someone.
As mentionned:
- Haley is almost incapacited
- Belkar would quickly be killed
- Durkon is meditating below deck for new spells (#934)
- Julio isn't on board right now.

- Elan himself is badly hurt but his life and had one of his two rapiers broken. But he is the only one that isn't in real danger. Maybe Tarquin could even decide to kill him and get him raised afterwards though.

- Roy is badly hurt and looking for potions, he may be back in time for a fight, but Tarquin has shown twice that he was stronger.

- Now V. V is still here, with spells left and not hurt (doesn't mean much for a wizard though :p). Elan has a high opinions of V's abilities and V wasn't here for the fights they already had agaisnt Tarquin's team. Yet, this is a big risk to take. Especially if Tarquin's friend manage to come back.


This is probably not the way Elan thought about it, yet Tarquin was definitely not at Elan's mercy. Even if Tarquin was unarmed for the moment.

[AGD]

I think, that V could handle Tarquin, now that Laurin is gone. Only Laurins Intervention saved Tarquin from V: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html

By contrast, Elan is interested in a good story (most of his more bizarre actions being driven by this), but has never shown any desire to put himself first within it, quite the reverse in fact.

I thought, he is now more interested in doing the right Thing, than in telling a good story and that was a part of his character development.

Because anything other than letting him fall was what Tarquin wanted - all the stories are then still revolving around him.

The reason Elan triumphs when he lets his father fall is because he recognises that this part of the story, at least for the Order, is over. Tarquin might be ruling a tyrannical empire, but that's still a sub-plot around a supporting character (him).

Sorry, but what kind of reason is that. Why is it in any way important, what Tarquin wants? Just because Joker wants Batman to come after him, when he threatens to blow a hospital up, doesn't means, that Batman shouldn't just let him blow it up. What the Villain wants with his crimes shouldn't be opposed, it should be ignored, while the crime should be opposed. Who cares, if Tarquin looks like a Badass by going down, as long, as he can't harm anyone anymore. Elan shouldn't force Tarquin to a big climactic battle, if it would harm others, but he shouldn't avoid a big climactic batlle, if it is the safest way to prevent Tarquin from harming others. So in your opinion, it is the right thing, to let Tarquin continue his crimes and let people suffer through him, because it wouldn't be what Tarquin wanted. That sounds stupid to me.

I hope, that Elan let Tarquin fall, to prevent harm from the mechane crew and his friends and I am just missing, why it would harm them, if he pulled Tarquin back and locked him up. If he really just let his father just go and continue his crimes to rub it in his face, that he didn't what Tarquin wanted, than Elans action was stupid and petty.

[NerdyKris]

Killing Tarquin wouldn't have stopped anything at all. The queen is still in on the plan, it would have continued along the same as it always has. Bringing him onto the ship would have been a liability, since it would give Tarquin's allies a reason to return and attempt to free him. Dropping Tarquin off and fleeing was the best option available. They had far more imporant matters than stopping one evil kingdom in a sea of other evil kingdoms, and they said they would return later to handle the situation. But taking down an empire isn't a one battle job. And it certainly isn't accomplished by killing one of the guys at the top, when that person's entire philosophy is built on consistent rules and efficiency.

[Quild]

I think, that V could handle Tarquin, now that Laurin is gone. Only Laurins Intervention saved Tarquin from V: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html

Doubtfully. Laurin saved Tarquin from falling from the ship. At this point V's spell list isn't about blasting everything. Enhancement and support only!

Zimmerwald listed V's used spells that day.
Let's assume level 16 and 24 int, what spells have V left?
4 cantrips: who cares?
7 level 1 spells: won't matter much
5 level 2 spells: maybe some scorching rays would pass. Not even sure
6 level 3 spells: I suspect some useless fireballs here. Probably one or two "Fly" spells also. Shrink Item was prepared the previous day and may be also prepared here.
2 level 4 spells: One is probably another dimensional Anchor
1 level 5 spells: Probably Dominate Person.
1 level 6 spells: Probably another Disintegrate. I don't see V having only one of these prepared.
2 level 7 spells: I don't know... Maybe Power Word: Blind? I don't see much useful stuff here anyway
2 level 8 spells: Probably Power Word: Stun and... ? V should ideally have Sunburst.


So, the number of remaining spells V has probably still doesn't make V really able to defeat Tarquin one on one. Even assuming best case. On another hand, Tarquin is able to make V's HP drop quickly.

Sorry, but what kind of reason is that. Why is it in any way important, what Tarquin wants? Just because Joker wants Batman to come after him, when he threatens to blow a hospital up, doesn't means, that Batman shouldn't just let him blow it up. What the Villain wants with his crimes shouldn't be opposed, it should be ignored, while the crime should be opposed.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...s&id=588#comic

Who cares, if Tarquin looks like a Badass by going down, as long, as he can't harm anyone anymore. Elan shouldn't force Tarquin to a big climactic battle, if it would harm others, but he shouldn't avoid a big climactic batlle, if it is the safest way to prevent Tarquin from harming others. So in your opinion, it is the right thing, to let Tarquin continue his crimes and let people suffer through him, because it wouldn't be what Tarquin wanted. That sounds stupid to me.

Well... Tarquin's plan makes him either a king or a legend. And if he became a legend...
I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it'll all be thanks to you, my boy.
This is why Elan had to work on a plan.

[AGD]

If V has another one of Bugsbys Hand, he can just throw Tarquin down again or hold him, to throw him in a cage. It didn't seem like Tarquin could do anything against Bugsbys Hand without Laurin.

Killing Tarquin wouldn't have stopped anything at all. The queen is still in on the plan, it would have continued along the same as it always has. Bringing him onto the ship would have been a liability, since it would give Tarquin's allies a reason to return and attempt to free him. Dropping Tarquin off and fleeing was the best option available. They had far more imporant matters than stopping one evil kingdom in a sea of other evil kingdoms, and they said they would return later to handle the situation. But taking down an empire isn't a one battle job. And it certainly isn't accomplished by killing one of the guys at the top, when that person's entire philosophy is built on consistent rules and efficiency.

Again, I am not talking about killing Tarquin. And I think, that locking Tarquin away would not take down the empire, but at least improve the status of the empires, because I don't think Laurin or the VL-Members would do anything like nailing slaves to mountains and burn them, to build a sign. Senseless cruelties will propably stop, even if (in their eyes) necessary cruelties will continue.

But I admit, that it is an arguement, that they could come to rescue him.

[Onyavar]

He could have taken care of Tarquin right away. I am not even talking about killing. He could have locked him in a room of the Mechane. And then he could giving him later over to Ian Starshine and Amun-Zora, when he knew, that Amun-Zora stands against Tarquin.

With allies like Laurin and Miron, Tarquin can only be held for one day, that is until Laurin has replenished psi points.

Of these two confirmed mages (plus whatever resources their empires can spare), they could scry Tarquins location, open a wormhole to him, fight him free pronto, and kick the orders ass yet again.

The countermeasures aren't very promising:
- V can prepare & cast Dimension Locks to prevent inbound wormholes. (Doesn't stop them scying, confirm the flight path and intercept with a wormholed flying army.)
- V or HpoH can maybe use some scrying scrambling magic we haven't seen from either of them yet. Odds are that the Empires have better material to burn.
- Dumping Tarquin in the "secure cell of a reliable ally to hold him"? Um, they first have to get him there. Ian and Amun-Zora would rather attempt (and probably fail) to kill him. Azure City is gone, Cliffport is too far away and has standing orders against the Mechane, and the People's Democratic Dictatorship on the Western Continent won't hold Tarquin either, but rather turn out a wonderful power base for his next scheme.

And that's not counting Tarquins own resourcefulness. He could charm crewmembers (his charisma is much like Elan's, I'd guess), he is a superb fighter (maybe even when stripped to underwear, though I suspect that most of his awesomeness is due to crafted items), and most important, he knows his memes!
High-level antagonist prisoners that the hero won't kill, always escape. Always. Even without his business partners and stripped naked, Tarquin would just need to sit in his "cell" and wait for the opportunity that he KNOWS will allow him to escape rather sooner than later. (Like a storm, or a stop to repair the complete ship, or a random encounter with air pirates...)

Elan knew these memes as well, and if he had been forcefully oblivious to them again, Roy and V would have dumped Tarquin faster than you can say "don't tempt fate".

[AGD]

Dumping Tarquin in the "secure cell of a reliable ally to hold him"? Um, they first have to get him there.

They got there pretty fast and easy.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0940.html

[D.One]

As some of the other posters have said, I believe Elan let Tarquin fall because he (Tarquin) isn't THAT important to be dealt with immediately. And this conclusion is Tarquin's ultimate defeat.

[Quild]

They got there pretty fast and easy.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0940.html

You want to dump Tarquin in Tyrinaria's secure cells?

It's actually a good point that they don't have time to deal with Tarquin. They're figuratively running against time since Xykon teleported.

[Bulldog Psion]

A high level combatant of that much prowess, cunning, and evil on one's ship is kind of the equivalent of keeping a caged Nazgul in the back of your van.

Sure, maybe it won't get out and freeze your blood with a Morgul grasp while you're driving to Culver's, but why take the risk if you don't have to?

They just got through with a sequence where Tarquin and his buddies hounded them almost to death, sticking to them like a horror movie monster as they took ever more desperate steps to escape.

At that point, from both a tactical and an emotional point of view, I think I would be absolutely thrilled to just have Tarquin off the ship and dwindling into the distance finally if I were one of the party. Dude is frickin' scary, and so are his allies. As Gene Wolfe wrote in the Citadel of the Autarch: "Sometimes victory consists of disentangling oneself."

[Onyavar]

They got there pretty fast and easy.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0940.html

That was this one location. And Elan/Haley had no possibility to know that before winning against Tarquin, and even if they did - now that you remind me of it, all they knew was Ian and Geoff had gone into hiding.

How would these two refugees possibly hold a guy like Tarquin? (Powerwise, that sounds like barely managing to capture a young dragon alive while the parents watched you doing it, then leaving the young dragon in the trustworthy guard of a nearby dirt-farmers village.)

Simile aside, a fourth option that could probably even hold Tarquin (the three I mentioned before are pretty doubtful) exists: it's the Elves. Though we know right know that they are a) neutral. Holding Tarquin prisoner would serve their interests, but we don't know they know that. They're also b) prohibiting the Mechane to enter their territory. c) V has lost lots of credibility there and can't negotiate. So the elves are maybe powerful enough, even near the flight path, but unwilling to help.

No, they would have had to haul Tarquin around with them.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Sorry, but what kind of reason is that. Why is it in any way important, what Tarquin wants? Just because Joker wants Batman to come after him, when he threatens to blow a hospital up, doesn't means, that Batman shouldn't just let him blow it up. What the Villain wants with his crimes shouldn't be opposed, it should be ignored, while the crime should be opposed. Who cares, if Tarquin looks like a Badass by going down, as long, as he can't harm anyone anymore. Elan shouldn't force Tarquin to a big climactic battle, if it would harm others, but he shouldn't avoid a big climactic batlle, if it is the safest way to prevent Tarquin from harming others. So in your opinion, it is the right thing, to let Tarquin continue his crimes and let people suffer through him, because it wouldn't be what Tarquin wanted. That sounds stupid to me.

I hope, that Elan let Tarquin fall, to prevent harm from the mechane crew and his friends and I am just missing, why it would harm them, if he pulled Tarquin back and locked him up. If he really just let his father just go and continue his crimes to rub it in his face, that he didn't what Tarquin wanted, than Elans action was stupid and petty.

It's not about not opposing the villain, it's about working out what the villain's true goal is, and denying them that.

Remember that Tarquin is all about narrative, in particular, making himself the central part of that narrative.

He wins if a) he survives to a peaceful death from old age or b) he's killed in such a way that he becomes a legend.

From #763:

:tarquin: "If someone conquers an empire and rules it with an iron fist for thirty long years, and then some paladin breaks into his throne room and kills him, what do you think he's going to remember as he lasy dying?"
"That good triumphed over evil?"
:tarquin: "No, that he got to live like a god for three decades! Sure, the last ten minutes sucked, but you can't have everything."

And:

:tarquin: "That's the beauty of it my son. If I win, I get to be a king. If I lose, I get to be a legend."

So, let's look at the deals Tarquin offers Elan to get him to pull him up (#936), and why they're not a good idea for Elan to accept:

1) "Why doesn't my group fund a whole legion of adventurers, and we'll put your buddy Greenhilt in charge of them all? That way, you can command your own squad while still reporting to him. At the start of each quest, he can grumpily tell you that you're a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, and then everything pretty much revolves around you after that."

Which puts Tarquin in complete overall control of everything the Order does, and means that all Tarquin has to do to make Elan come after him for his big denoument that'll turn him into a legend is cut his funding, and kill Roy and the rest of the Order - and he knows their exact locations.

And, after Haley's forced him to loose his grip on the Mechane's railings and is only holding on by one hand:
2) "Elan, son. I know we don't see eye-to-eye on much, but I think we agree that we need a better conclusion than this. How about you take me prisoner? That seems popular nowadays. We could have some really intense interrogation scenes while I subtly try and manipulate you from inside my cell! What do you say?"

From then on, Tarquin's a looming presence, everything the Order does is overshadowed by the drama of next time Elan interrogates him (as an example of something similar, the Silence of the Lambs is more about Clarice Starling's interactions with Hannibal Lecter than about the FBI's search for Buffalo Bill).

Plus, I would suggest that the Vector Legion's almost certainly got contingencies around one of their number getting captured, which would likely mean the remaining members (who, if they're not epic levels, aren't that far off), plus everything they can bring with them (and they've got access to the armies of three nations) via scry and die (and the only thing we've seen which can block that sort of tactics is the Cloister spell, and all the elves did was teleport to the edge of the cloistered area and sneak in).

[SaintRidley]

Taking any action would have only fed into Tarquin's need to be the center of attention and of Elan's plot. Letting him fall and simply not acting is an attempted way of showing how little Tarquin matters in the grand scheme of things. Tarquin, of course, does not understand it because he's constitutionally incapable of understanding.

[Grey Watcher]

There's also the fact that Tarquin said (to paraphrase heavily) "Take me prisoner so I can undermine your group from within." So it's not like Elan is under any illusion that Tarquin is willing to truly surrender and come along quietly.

As for dropping him off with Amun-Zora and Ian, even if they COULD contain Tarquin (which, as many have pointed out, is dubious at best), handing him over to them is really the same as slitting his throat yourself, since Elan knows full well that they want him dead. And Ian's paranoid enough that he'd probably read Elan bringing Tarquin as prisoner as proof that Elan's working for Tarquin and has brought him there to recapture Ian (either by personally defeating Ian or letting himself be scryed upon so his forces can teleport in or something).

Not that Elan necessarily had time to think of all these contingencies in the heat of the moment. I think it was just a matter of: "I'm done with your BS, dad."

[AGD]

Okay I think, I have now enough reasons for Elans decision. I still want to argue against the least convincing one.

It's not about not opposing the villain, it's about working out what the villain's true goal is, and denying them that.

But why should someone do that, if less people are harmed, if he archives his true goal? If I want to blow up the world and I do this, because I want to see, that someone can stop me, why should you deny me my true goal, by letting me blow up the planet? Or why should you be a speciesist against goblins to deny redcloak his true goal?

What a Villain wants, doesn't matter, as long as he is stopped from harming other people. Aren't we giving Tarquin to much attention, by thinking that his goals matter. Tarquins goals doesn't matter and it doesn't matter if he is happy with the results, as long as he is stopped from harming people. Who cares if he thinks, he is awesome, while he dies. I am denying him my attention to think about what he thinks, because it doesn't matter. Everyone else will know, that he isn't awesome.

[Keltest]

Okay I think, I have now enough reasons for Elans decision. I still want to argue against the stupidest one.



But why should someone do that, if less people are harmed, if he archives his true goal? If I want to blow up the world and I do this, because I want to see, that someone can stop me, why should you deny me my true goal, by letting me blow up the planet? Or why should you be a speciesist against goblins to deny redcloak his true goal?

What a Villain wants, doesn't matter, as long as he is stopped from harming other people. Aren't we giving Tarquin to much attention, by thinking that his goals matter. Tarquins goals doesn't matter and it doesn't matter if he is happy with the results, as long as he is stopped from harming people. Who cares if he thinks, he is awesome, while he dies. I am denying him my attention to think about what he thinks, because it doesn't matter. Everyone else will know, that he isn't awesome.

I think the flaw in that argument is that the hero cannot necessarily achieve all their goals in beating the villain. Sometimes they create a scenario where they come out on top in one way or another. Yes, if possible you would want to deny them the satisfaction they are seeking, if only to prevent encouraging them. It isn't possible, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal anyway.

[SaintRidley]

BRitF is primarily a narrative about the nature of narrative. It's not a story about beating a bad guy, but a story about what kind of story we're reading. Killing or capturing Tarquin would only put us back into a "beat the bad guy" story. That's not the story Rich is telling.

[AGD]

BRitF is primarily a narrative about the nature of narrative. It's not a story about beating a bad guy, but a story about what kind of story we're reading. Killing or capturing Tarquin would only put us back into a "beat the bad guy" story. That's not the story Rich is telling.

I don't have any Problem with it, that Elan doesn't beats the bad guy. I just wanted to know why. And I didn't asked why Rich didn't let Elan beat the bad guy, I asked what Elans In-Story-Reason was. Some People have given me satisfactory answers. "Because the Author says so" is not one of them.

[Keltest]

I don't have any Problem with it, that Elan doesn't beats the bad guy. I just wanted to know why. And I didn't asked why Rich didn't let Elan beat the bad guy, I asked what Elans In-Story-Reason was. Some People have given me satisfactory answers. "Because the Author says so" is not one of them.

Elan DID beat the bad guy. Tarquin has been stymied in pretty much all of his goals for this book, both physical (get control over the gate) and the abstract (hijack the story). Elan has no interest in continuing to deal with Tarquin, but also no desire to outright kill him. He simply has no reason to let him back up.

[veti]

"Overpowering Tarquin once he's hauled back on board" wouldn't be an issue. Tarquin is sufficiently Lawful that if Elan made him say "I surrender", I'm sure he would have submitted peacefully to being locked up.

However, Elan isn't lawful, at all. Capturing Tarquin and handing him over to his enemies would be quite a Lawful way to deal with him ("making use of existing structures"). It's simply not the sort of thing that occurs to Elan.

[Keltest]

"Overpowering Tarquin once he's hauled back on board" wouldn't be an issue. Tarquin is sufficiently Lawful that if Elan made him say "I surrender", I'm sure he would have submitted peacefully to being locked up.

However, Elan isn't lawful, at all. Capturing Tarquin and handing him over to his enemies would be quite a Lawful way to deal with him ("making use of existing structures"). It's simply not the sort of thing that occurs to Elan.

I beg to differ.

[AGD]

Elan DID beat the bad guy. Tarquin has been stymied in pretty much all of his goals for this book, both physical (get control over the gate) and the abstract (hijack the story). Elan has no interest in continuing to deal with Tarquin, but also no desire to outright kill him. He simply has no reason to let him back up.

Yeah, I know. I just spoked of "beating the bad guy" in the sense, that SaintRidley meant.

[Mauve Shirt]

Man, I forgot how much I loved the line "I'm not a twin anymore."

Elan realized what Tarquin wouldn't: Tarquin just isn't that important to the story. He's not the bad guy and Elan didn't want him to continue having an effect on the Order's actions. Additionally he knew that Tarquin would survive the fall, and that a captured Tarquin would be an escaped Tarquin within a strip or two.

[pendell]

In 936 Elan lets Tarquin fall. Tarquin now continues to live and reign his empires, until the Order takes care of him in "Order of the Stick 2: Order Stickier".

But Tarquin was at Elans Mercy in that scene. He could have taken care of Tarquin right away. I am not even talking about killing. He could have locked him in a room of the Mechane. And then he could giving him later over to Ian Starshine and Amun-Zora, when he knew, that Amun-Zora stands against Tarquin.

Why didn't Elan anything like that. The only expanition, that I could come up with, is that he knew, that it was most likely from a narrative point of view, that Tarquin would escape and maybe killing some crewmembers of the mechane on the way, but that seems a bit far fetched to me.

Tarquin would have been a liability aboard ship , and he would have easily survived the fall. Even the desert would be unlikely to kill him. Even if he isn't rescued almost immediately by his army, he probably has a distress item or a teleport device.

So there's no downside to kicking him off the ship, ethically, and a great number of reasons to do so.

Plus, Tarquin is an attention whore, and there's only room for one of those in OOTS!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[The Giant]

Elan DID beat the bad guy. Tarquin has been stymied in pretty much all of his goals for this book, both physical (get control over the gate) and the abstract (hijack the story). Elan has no interest in continuing to deal with Tarquin, but also no desire to outright kill him. He simply has no reason to let him back up.

This is pretty much spot-on.

"Continue to be an important part of Elan's ongoing story" was one of Tarquin's goals. Elan denied him that by not taking him captive.

Also, remember that Elan knew (both from being a bard and from personal experience with Nale) that no story-notable villain ever stays captured. They always find a way out, usually at the least convenient time. Tarquin was essentially asking him to buy into a story trope that never works out well for the hero; Elan resisted his usual instincts by refusing. It was a sign of growth for him because he's learned how to say no to narrative patterns that don't help his cause.