OOTS #914 - The Discussion Thread

[Snowfire]

Half-Orc Babarians are.

Assuming that he's alive

That's what I was saying, moderately powerful. I wasn't saying she could do much to Tarquin at all

Ah, gotcha,. Yeah, definitely agree there. In all honesty, if Sabine does attack Tarquin now I wouldn't be surprised if Laurin could just bind her. And wouldn't that be fun.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Aaaaand it looks like we have our answer on both fronts (Sabine and whether or not Nale's coming back). I cannot wait to see what she's going to do now. She may have officially become a wild card.

Nice touch with the blood by the way. Just something that made me chuckle.

[Tircey]

And I think the title refers to "Final nail in the coffin", ie: Sabine is going to TOTALLY kill Tarqiun. Also, I suppose, "No, seriously, he's *******-evil, folks. the discussion is OVER AND DONE. FINI." ;)

I severely doubt it. Tarquin is a lot more powerful than Sabine and he knows she's still floating around somewhere. Not to mention he has alot of backup. (He knows full well she's a succubus and was banished)

She's Sabine will be reduced to trying to bamboozle others into doing it. Honestly, I think Sabine will try and get herself killed. If anyone is going to kill tarquin, it will be Elan or Xykon, not the last of the b-string villians of the Linear Guild.

[Obscure Blade]

I don't know, but suddenly Tarquin doesn't seem to be that smart to me anymore

It's a continuing pattern with him. His big blind spot is personal relationships & feelings. He didn't understand Nale, he doesn't understand Elan. Nor does he understand Sabine - he knows she and Nale had a relationship but he apparently hasn't even considered that she might care that Nale was killed.

[luc258]

Well, that puts an end to Malack getting restored. A shame, I like his character a lot.

How long till V returns? His 20 minutes should be close to being used up, unless the IFCC is taking everyone's turn at once.

[Slayer Lord]

That...was a seventy-two inch...plasma screen TV.

Well then, how shall this come back to bite Tarquin in the end?

[roaming_cat]

Well...that was final. Methinks that the title of the strip refers to the finality of Nale's disposal by Laurin. Who is turning out to be delightfully ruthless without the chillingly cold blooded nature of Tarquin.

This entire series of strips has been excellent. Tight storytelling, clear portrayal of the motives of everyone except Nale (I'm thinking the story of why he hated Malack will be in the collection this storyline goes in) and outstanding characterization and timing. This has all been years in the making, and it shows. Thanks, Giant.

Regarding Tarquin and his running meta-commentary on the roles everyone plays in the comic, it reminds me -strangely - of nothing so much as Caboose, one of the funnier (and more broken) characters in the Red vs. Blue comic webseries. When the creators were asked why Caboose was so nuts, they responded by explaining that he is the only person in the cast who knows that they are all characters in a video game. How much of Tarquin's outlook and ruthlessness are because he knows he exists only as a narrative foil for his son?

As for Sabine...Tarquin discounts her, because he suspects her feelings for Nale were simply artifice for the sake of her job. But not only is that clearly not the case, she's also excellently placed to do something about it. She knows she can't hurt Tarquin alone; she knows that Elan can't beat him, and may not be able to for years; and she knows that the IFCC doesn't care.

But tied up right there is someone who is powerful enough, and ruthless enough, to do the job, with some convincing. And he's currently strongly motivated to make a deal that releases him from his obligations to her bosses. If Sabine can get her hands on the IFCC/Vaarsuvius contracts, it's very possible she can convince V. to help her kill Tarquin. I suspect even V's raven would call that a good deal.

Can't wait to see how it falls out. And wondering where in the Planes Nale is going to end up.

[St Fan]

We explicitly see Tarquin stash the dagger with Nale's blood on it, and we know that even one drop would be enough for Ressurrection. Tarquin's done enough to destroy the body to make Laurin happy, but it's still not a done deal that Nale could never be revived.

To you, and to anyone still stubborn enough to believe this, read my lips:

Nale. Is. Not. Coming. Back.

Come on, that was even explicitely stated in this strip. Let go of your denial, it won't lead you anywhere.

[Lissibith]

Goodness, that last panel. You can just feel the rage radiating off her. Fantastic. :)

[Jay R]

Looks like not even Haley is willing to back Elan's views on this. Nale had it coming. It'd have happened long before now if Tarquin hadn't been protecting him all this time (and if it had, Malack would almost certainly still be alive).

His twin just died. That's heart-wrenching, regardless of the relationship. He feels the way he does because he's the good twin, not the neutral twin.

Haley is dealing with the fact of losing a recurring annoyance. Elan is dealing with the fact of losing his brother. No resemblance.

[Alleran]

Malack died 200 years ago. And, frankly, destroying his Vampiric form is probably the nearest thing to a good act that Nale ever performed.

Unlife, then. I'm sure you know what I meant. As far as whether it was a good act or not, it doesn't really enter the equation. Malack was Tarquin's best friend. If Tarquin hadn't been protecting Nale all this time, the current situation would never have come up, and thus Nale would likely be dead and Malack still alive (for a given definition of "alive").

His twin just died. That's heart-wrenching, regardless of the relationship. He feels the way he does because he's the good twin, not the neutral twin.

Haley is dealing with the fact of losing a recurring annoyance. Elan is dealing with the fact of losing his brother. No resemblance.

Of the Order, the only one who might have had cause to support Elan was Haley. Roy, Durkula and Belkar almost certainly wouldn't, and it's now clear that Haley is probably with the other three. That's all.

[Vinsfeld]

Is Sabine gonna find Nale's soul wandering in the lower planes?

[Tragak]

If anyone can resurrect a disintegrated corpse it's Redcloak. And she have some valuable info about threats to the Plan to offer.

Uh oh.

[Castamir]

CR for a Succubus is 7.

A succubus without class levels, that is. Which Sabine has. Granted, the +6 LA adjustment sucks, but she gets quite a few skills and abilities in returns for those levels.

Tarquin's player/AI/whatever NPCs have is just brilliant so Sabine is outclassed there, but when it comes to the character itself, I wouldn't call her underpowered.

[mattie_p]

"That's coming out of your holiday bonus."

Classic.

[littlebum2002]

In the first panel, Elan notes that "his throat is exposed".

But when Malack vamped Durkon (and tried to vamp Belkar), it was shown that the characters don't actually HAVE throats, because Malack had to bite into the head instead.

Which, of course, is completely useless pedantry. But someone was going to bring it up, so it might as well be me this time.

[ShinyRocks]

I kind of feel like that the only way people would be convinced that Nale's not coming back would be if we saw Tarquin wipe the dagger clean, then set fire to the cloth that cleaned the blade, then throw the ashes through a portal into some other dimension. And even then...

Malack is gone. So is Z. So is Nale. And (pssst, whisper it), so is Thog. Sorry 'bout it. The time for annoying mini bosses is over. It's endgame now.

Great strip. I'm enjoying Laurin a lot.

[ben-zayb]

If anyone can resurrect a disintegrated corpse it's Redcloak. And she have some valuable info about threats to the Plan to offer.

Nobody could, if I get the Giant's intentions correct, but the gist is that he feels that True Rez is a messy spell in terms of plot development, which likely means he won't be using it in OOTS-verse.

[Rad]

A succubus without class levels, that is. Which Sabine has. Granted, the +6 LA adjustment sucks, but she gets quite a few skills and abilities in returns for those levels.

Does she? Miko was able to just snap her neck (she got better though).

[Tsyndrome]

Tarquin: "Give them a chance for some melodrama."

And so he goes from "genre-savvy" to a complete inability to sympathize with the most basic of human emotion.

[Korith]

but now Nale can't come back!

Technically untrue.

True Resurrection, or Wish x2 should do the job. Both are very expensive, though.

[Samalpetey]

Assuming that he's alive



Ah, gotcha,. Yeah, definitely agree there. In all honesty, if Sabine does attack Tarquin now I wouldn't be surprised if Laurin could just bind her. And wouldn't that be fun.

I wonder if there's a psionic version of binding anywhere?

[MugaSofer]

Hah. Called it. EDIT: that is, the "minion will disintegrate Nale if the Giant doesn't plan on rezzing him" thing, along with Sabine.

To those saying Sabine isn't much of a threat ... maybe, but if she can get her bosses to help, I can see this really coming back to bite Tarquin.

[Jay R]

Well then, how shall this come back to bite Tarquin in the end?

Is there any worse ending for Tarquin than to be killed off-screen, for petty revenge, by a B-list recurring villain, in an action that doesn't affect the main plot, ignores the obvious narrative arc between him and Elan, and doesn't even topple the empire?

[Shatteredtower]

So much for all the tarquin fanboys arguing he had done a hard decision etc...

Tarquin felt nothing at killing his son. Period.

Which we know because Tarquin never keeps things to himself.

[goodyarn]

20 Quatloos on the shape-shifting demon.

Go get him, Sabine.

[SaintRidley]

I take the title "Last in the Coffin" to mean no one else is going to die this arc.

Probably, though it also seems to refer to the last nail in the coffin of Elan and Tarquin's relationship. I think this was the tipping point for him.

So much for the possibility of Nale returning. Though we might still see him in the afterlife, Tarquin is spot-on about him being a B-list villain that the heroes simply have outgrown. Great comic!

He's also completely wrong about his own role in the story, as usual. Tarquin's very genre savvy, but he's too mistaken about several of the story's basic premises to be correct.

[ben-zayb]

Technically untrue.

True Resurrection, or Wish x2 should do the job. Both are very expensive, though.

I wish there was a way to make this a sticky, but to everyone who mentions True Rez:

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

[happycrow]

Tarquin: "Give them a chance for some melodrama."

And so he goes from "genre-savvy" to a complete inability to sympathize with the most basic of human emotion.

Yup. I don't call a lot of things right -- in fact, I've sort of made a game with myself about all the stuff I call wrong, usually by reading things into the comic that weren't there, but in this case, "psychopath not sociopath" seems pretty much spot-on for Tarquin.

[Seerow]

A succubus without class levels, that is. Which Sabine has. Granted, the +6 LA adjustment sucks, but she gets quite a few skills and abilities in returns for those levels.

Tarquin's player/AI/whatever NPCs have is just brilliant so Sabine is outclassed there, but when it comes to the character itself, I wouldn't call her underpowered.

Sabine is a NPC, not a PC. She doesn't care about LA (only PCs deal with that). She instead gets to go based on CR. So if the Linear Guild was a 16th level Party, she could be a Succubus Rogue 10. She'd also get the elite array (improving stats) and NPC wealth by level. Altogether it serves to make her fairly dangerous even to a high level character. But I'm pretty sure that Tarquin is low epic, so still not a major threat to him.