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2012-06-19, 01:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-19, 01:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-19, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Show and Spell? Miss Powerful?
Last edited by Balmas; 2012-06-19 at 02:00 AM.
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2012-06-19, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-19, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Show and Spell it is.
So, Trixie comes back to Ponyville in a starved state. She's been travelling trying to raise money, but without a stage she cannot perform. She's arrested and brought to town hall because she inadvertently caused two colts to bring an ursa to town. The Mayor is talking to Cheerilee, who is complaining that she needs someone to teach her students some rudimentary magic because they can't control it themselves and keep causing magical mishaps. Trixie is already there, so the Mayor sentences her to teaching magic. Some other stuff happens, end of chapter one.
That probably could use some work, but it's a good start.
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2012-06-19, 02:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
why wouldnt twilight be handling this? she's better read, better at magic, and already has an obsession with learning. heck, she's even prone to giving lectures when not actively prevented.
on top of which, scoots probably hates her if for no other reason than she embarrassed RD. bound to be a lot of drama there, especially if she drags in the other CMC.
unless you want to write something really campy, i would just set it somewhere else.Last edited by thubby; 2012-06-19 at 02:33 AM.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-06-19, 02:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
She hasn't been shown doing it so far, and just because she is smart and lectures people does not mean she would be a good teacher. Professors also match that description, along with researchers. Twilight has problems with being sarcastic or snappy, she already used magic on children (lesson 0), and is a compulsive perfectionist. I could much more easily see Twilight as a professor then as a teacher.
Trixie is arrogant, but she is also interesting (twilight is frequently treated as boring by the other ponies). Besides, there is room to change redeem Trixie, while Twilight is already a good character.
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2012-06-19, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
They won't let Twilight learn those kids some magic because she already demonstrated she's irresponsible with it.
Trixie is more stable, and less prone to crazy tardy magic. Twilight already has enough on her plate anyway.
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2012-06-19, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
oh im not saying it can't be done. just that these are issues you're going to have to address.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-06-19, 04:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
That's exactly it. They're kids. It doesn't matter how good you're at something, if you can't capture their attention, they will learn nothing. Someone who routinely grabs a crowd in non-compulsory situation, to the point they pay for it will do fine in class. Twilight? She has charisma and social skills of a wet cardboard box. Try to put her as teacher and you'll end with her going mad as kids refuse to love books and read quietly without getting bored, culminating with yet another love spell.
Plus, the thing about being well-read is actually a negative. Twilight would make fine university researcher, or teacher to aged, patient ponies, but when it comes to teaching band of fillies with various learning problems you want someone who did their spells constantly thousands of times, eliminating every imperfection, as this would grant practical knowledge how to help your students with polishing their efforts, too.
Also, as for being better at magic, I disagree. Twilight might have more raw power, but if you discount one off episode spells Twilight learned to further the plot (like time spell or shield copied from her brother) Trixie actually demonstrated far wider range of spells (using more 'schools' in D&D terms) up to and including teleportation, and her telekinesis fine control was rivalled only by Rarity. One time we saw them compete Twilight had advantage of cheating by reading solution just before, so, nope - at best you can argue Trixie is (Pathfinder) Sorcerer to Twilight's Wizard
Edit: and before someone disagrees, let me say that Twilight has advantage of holding ancient MacGuffin - we have no idea just how powerful she is without it (she certainly wasn't that impressive in first two episodes, or when Discord/Chrysalis took Elements from them), and even if it grants her all the power in world if anything that would make her worse at teaching due to problems with power control and being less capable of understanding normal ponies problems.
on top of which, scoots probably hates her if for no other reason than she embarrassed RD. bound to be a lot of drama there, especially if she drags in the other CMC.
My pet theory is, she quit to emulate Rainbow Dash in that regard, tooCome one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2012-06-19, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
No no, nothing so drastic. Something much easier, like this
Spoiler“For the last time...” Twilight cautioned, cutting him off. The scheduling of the Hoverball Regional Finals and the Young Forest Animal Lover's Indoor Picnic in the gymnasium at the same time and date had been a mistake, but nothing she couldn't fix. “...it was just a simple error in the calendar. But let’s not panic just yet. I think I have a way we can combine the events and still keep everypony happy.”
I don't get the impression that Twilight is nearly as young in this story as she was when she hatched the egg, feels more like it's happening towards the end maybe a year or two before she moved to Ponyville. That's my impression, at least, so I think it's reasonable to up his age a little.
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2012-06-19, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Does it have to be Trixie coming back to Ponyville specifically? In my mind, I envisioned that it's Twilight & gang traveling and they stumble upon her in another town (useful for expanding the Equestrian map and being able to write without stepping on anything canon related to Ponyville specifically).
Just throwing that thought out there if anyone's interested.
If not, just ignore it. It won't bite.
Originally Posted by TVtyrant
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2012-06-19, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
I'm putting in my vote for thread 48: better than democracy.
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2012-06-19, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
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2012-06-19, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
I'll bite
Twilight also teleports (and can teleport others), and Trixie has nothing on the level of Want It, Need It. Or literally zipping Spike's mouth shut in Boast Busters. Trixie "feats" are summoning a boquet of flowers, minor image, tk on the level of Rarity (a not particularly magical unicorn) and... uh, I got nothing else. Trixie is (in 4e terms) low Heroic tier, Twilight is high Paragon.
Wait, do we have any evidence that the Elements empower their users?
re:Trixie teaching, it's a fun idea! And there's no doubt in my mind she'd do a vastly better job that Twilight.
My mind immediately leapt to the same placeLast edited by SlyGuyMcFly; 2012-06-19 at 07:05 AM.
Truth resists simplicity.
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2012-06-19, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Ponies not only make ME want to be a better person than I was before they entered my life, they make me want to HELP OTHERS be better people too.
And that is a GOOD thing by any definition.
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2012-06-19, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Conjuration spell - and Trixie shown off her own teleport at 3:03, alternatively, Major Creation, which is also Conjuration spell of the same level as Teleport. Check
Trixie has nothing on the level of Want It, Need It.
Or literally zipping Spike's mouth shut in Boast Busters.
minor image
tk on the level of Rarity (a not particularly magical unicorn)
I got nothing else.
Wait, do we have any evidence that the Elements empower their users?
You can make argument Twilight is at the top now, seeing how she can afford to waste time to learn instead of working, but I seriously doubt Twilight without ancient artefact would in any way outperform Trixie with comparable access to spells.Last edited by Trixie; 2012-06-19 at 08:00 AM.
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2012-06-19, 07:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
I think a neat way around that problem would be to have Twilight offered a job teaching in Canterlot or somewhere. While Trixie may not be able to match her in magical ability, she could always try to outdo Twilight in teaching ability. I feel it fits Trixie's character for her to try to beat Twilight at anything after the Ursa incident.
Also, hello ponythread.
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2012-06-19, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-19, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Ponies... ponies in socks!
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2012-06-19, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
I absolutely do NOT accept this premise. You yourself demonstrate a lot of why in repeating the fanon of Twi's force field being learned from Shining Armor. We don't have any good measure to just disregard what Twilight has done in every episode as "to further the plot" when we know Twilight's talent is for any magic spell. Not that I expect say the time travel one to return because that was something of the point but its still definitely there.
For that matter nor do I think you can disregard raw power. That is every bit as important, and even if we hypothetically grant Trixie anything like the breadth of Twi's ability (something I doubt by Trixie vs Ursa repeating tricks) she very clearly has no depth. Frankly I'd say Trixie doesn't have a talent for magic, but a talent for y'know... magic tricks. Its all essentially an illusion because it lacks any substance.
You can make argument Twilight is at the top now, seeing how she can afford to waste time to learn instead of working, but I seriously doubt Twilight without ancient artefact would in any way outperform Trixie with comparable access to spells.
... I don't buy it. Twilight managed major scale magic long before she acquired the big crown thingy. Namely in the Cutie Mark Chronicles tale where she was sending off wild surges all over the place (Spike got a what 100x mass increase) at her exam. Now we can call it implied by that same episode's plot that the EoH were connected long before, but that still means those Elements have a much deeper connection then being artifacts that selected the first suitable personalities to come along. Or it could be unrelated. I don't think we can get into separating which is which though since we don't know if this is just Destiny at work or that the EoH have some magical trait that passes the generations. The relevant point is that magic is utterly a part of Twilight's basic fabric, something which Celestia confirms in that same episode.
... but I want to step back. Twilight doesn't get to "waste" time while Trixie "has" to work. While she's the only student we've explicitly met Celestia maintains a whole school for unicorns remember? Equestria clearly has a policy to support scholarship as a field. Frankly if this was just a matter of access Trixie wouldn't need to work. Nor is this just a matter of access. Twilight has clearly spent her whole life working to get where she is, at a cost to her social ability, and still spends much of her time studying.
Frankly even if we take the big step of grant Trixie anything even in the same class of underly talent, by her attitudes as a person she clearly has never put in the work to capitalize on those talents.
Myself I think Trixie natural talent is showbiz, its big and flashy and cool in its own way that's could be quite awesome if her attitude wasn't so poor... but she's a natural performer not a wizard.
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2012-06-19, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
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2012-06-19, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
There are 2 problems with this argument: A) we have no idea if ability to learn spells from others is unique to Twilight. Is there anything in canon that would have said so? And B) we have no idea how much the ability to copy spells is actually worth. Twilight learned 2 spells: her brother's shield, and her babysitter's charm spell. Seeing both of them used far superior versions (shielding of Canterlot vs an army and shielding of home vs 3 fillies, and Cadence's love proved to be more powerful than Celestia) it's possible Twilight spent years trying and only managed imperfect versions. We don't know limits of that ability.
For that matter nor do I think you can disregard raw power. That is every bit as important, and even if we hypothetically grant Trixie anything like the breadth of Twi's ability (something I doubt by Trixie vs Ursa repeating tricks) she very clearly has no depth.
You can make argument that man with AK-47 will defeat Bruce Lee, but all that tells us is that Ak-47 > Bruce Lee, not the quality of either combatant. Can you provide one situation where Twilight was clearly denied using Elements yet managed similar result as with them?
Putting aside that you can't just discount Twilights greater efforts to study magic...
Namely in the Cutie Mark Chronicles tale where she was sending off wild surges all over the place (Spike got a what 100x mass increase) at her exam.
The relevant point is that magic is utterly a part of Twilight's basic fabric, something which Celestia confirms in that same episode.
... but I want to step back. Twilight doesn't get to "waste" time while Trixie "has" to work. While she's the only student we've explicitly met Celestia maintains a whole school for unicorns remember? Equestria clearly has a policy to support scholarship as a field.
Frankly even if we take the big step of grant Trixie anything even in the same class of underly talent, by her attitudes as a person she clearly has never put in the work to capitalize on those talents.Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2012-06-19, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
I don't really understand your argument about Twilight being empowered by the Element of Magic. Over the course of the whole show she has had access to it twice, in the second part of the season openers. Every other time she has done magic it has been her by herself.
If it were empowering her from afar then they wouldn't have needed to go look for them when attacked by Discord or Chrysalis she would already have it's power.Rural Reign An Original Superhero Webcomic Written by Me and AteMozzarlla
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2012-06-19, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Has there been any "Good Will Hunting" pony parody yet? I think some pony needs to write one.
"Farm laborer Big Macintosh, a genius who is forced to see a therapist and study advanced mathematics with a renowned professor in order to avoid jail time. Through his therapy sessions, Mac re-evaluates his relationships with his family and his girlfriend Cheerilie while confronting his emotional issues and making decisions about his future."
How you like them Apples"Winning with friendship means winning at life!"
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2012-06-19, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
As much as I appreciate you defending your namesake, Trix, there is no upstaging Twilight as an archmage for her. She can put on a better show, make better illusions or crowd-wowing performances. But she can not sling around spells of any significant magnitude. She is talented, indeed, but very focused. What energy she has she uses very efficiently, as befits her talent, but there is no denying that she can never match Twilight in the overall scope of magic.
Even by your breakdown of magic schools, all Trixie ever displays is Illusion, with perhaps a side of Transmutation. Her attempt at Evocation was pitiful. Twilight, on the other hand, has displayed everything sans Necromancy over the course of the series. And she has a lot more raw power on top of that, and is incredibly studious. Even if Trixie's specialization didn't limit her potential, and even she somehow acquired a way to gain lots of raw power, she would never be in the same class as Twilight simply because she wouldn't care to study hard enough for it.
And Twilight has so far actually put on her Element... thrice. Once against Nightmare Moon, twice against Discord. She isn't in contact with the artifact itself throughout most of the series. And picking it up did not "establish" that power any more than, say, the element of Laughter established Pinkie's personality. The Elements themselves are nothing but a set of amplifiers for a magical converging-beam cannon. What the bearers are, is Spirits of those elements, the source of the Elements' power. If the threat of Nightmare Moon was removed in another way, and Twilight still somehow made it to Ponyville and made friends, she would still be the same Twilight we know, with the same level of power, because that is who she is.
Bottom line: Trixie can put on a better show than Twilight can, and she does have more raw charisma (that she doesn't always put to good use), but an archmage she ain't. A very good stage magician, and with actual magic, but a stage magician nevertheless.
(prepost edit: And I've been ninja'd on at least one count, but oh well.
re: Baby Cakes: Wild surges of magic happen to foals, as we don't see any of the school fillies exploding into anything. Twilight was way past the "surging" age when she was taking her exam. Maybe the Sonic Rainboom triggered something in her and brought that power forth, but she was far from being the only unicorn filly in its AoE (this being Canterlot), and yet was the only one to surge. Even if we establish that this sort of burst is similar to what a unicorn foal might undergo, Twilight was way past the age when it was normal for it to happen, and way too young to have accumulated such raw power through other means.)Bearer of the Psionic Flame
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2012-06-19, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Last edited by Nameless; 2012-06-19 at 11:22 AM.
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2012-06-19, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
By D&D rules, and using your examples, Trixie is level 10. Twilight would be level 15, the minimum a Wizard needs to cast Sympathy. So there's no question of who would wipe the floor with who.
Assuming, of course, that Equestria runs on D&D rules. Which would be silly.
Nightmare Moon was suprised at how the Elements that she'd crushed underhoof were about to kick her ass.
More seriously though, there's no evidence Rarity is morefabulousgenerous, AJ more honest, RD more loyal or that Pinkie is any more random now than before acquiring the Elements. No reason to believe Twilight is more magical. Additionally, if they had the power of the Elements at all times, why would they have to get them to fight Discord or Chrysalis?
Now, there's definitely something to the idea that they get a +10 Friendship bonus or something when actually wearing the Necklacenecklacenecklacenecklaceandbigcrownthingy, but I'm not seeing any boosts when they aren't wearing it.
In this analogy, the chap with the Ferrari has a Ferrari because he earned loads of prize-money in professional driving championships. So yeah, you can bet he's a better driver.
It is, perhaps, a bit unfair that Mr. Ferrari wins races because he went to Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Drivers while Mr. Fiat was raised by carnies (or something) and worked all his life but it doesn't change the fact that Ferraris beat second-hand Fiats in strait-up races.
something something strained analogy something.
Or maybe he's just a simple guy that prefers simple work to those pretentious, stuffy academics in Canterlot U, much like Applejack. He does have an apple cutie mark after all.
Now if he had a pie...Last edited by SlyGuyMcFly; 2012-06-19 at 11:51 AM.
Truth resists simplicity.
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2012-06-19, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
Although I won't wade into the discussion of Twilight vs. Trixie magical power, I would like to discuss how Twilight would do as a teacher.
I agree that Twilight would have a couple problems teaching a class of younger students.
1. She can be a bit boring
2. She might have trouble with classroom management.
The nice thing is though, is that both of those are related problems and it's very possible to teach classroom management so that someone can keep the kids focused. Because of that, Twilight's success as a teacher would be heavily based on what kind of preparation she was given. If you just say "here, teach these kids" and throw her into a room, she would probably fail spectacularly. So would most people in real life, that's why nearly all countries require a teacher credentialing program. If Twilight was given a mentor and taught some techniques for keeping the kids' attention, I think she would do really well. She's a pretty creative unicorn when given time to prepare, so I think she would come up with great ways to teach lots of different subjects.
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2012-06-19, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My Little Pony 101110: *ROBOT TAKEOVER*
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