Divine Mind Overhaul Problems [3.5/PF1]

[Aotrs Commander]

I have long been using my own set of extensive house-rules, a curated hybrid of 3.5 and Pathfinder 1, 3.Aotrs, now functionally its own edition, though it's close enoguh to Pathfinder for discussion to be relevant. One of the thing I did was port all the psioinc classes over from 3.5. The Divine Mind has always posed problems, (though the Ardent has some of them too). I made fairly extensive revisions to it and called it done.

Until today, when I actually came to MAKE one, using Golarion's Asmodeus as a the deity.

In practise, what it comes out is with a set of rather pants ill-fitting abilities that I have been unable to find a use for, coming only from the mantles and domains. The character is... Functional, but the best class feature it the bonus feats and the ectopic ally. Which is rather bad.


So, at painstakingly length, I have posted the current version of the Divine Mind here, such that it can hopefull be picked over and suggestions made to make it... Not suck. Help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Note: I am well aware that tying the domians and mantles a bit together is a bit of a cop-out, but at the time, I thought it broadened out both Divine Mind and Ardent with some still-thematic abilities on top of their limited powerset. Until, again, I actually sat down to make one in anger to see what I could do with it.


I should note that, basically, ditching the class entirely is not on the table, so one way or another, the Divine Mind needs dragging to functionality.


DIVINE MIND
Key Abilities: Charisma (power points, power save DC, special abilities)
Hit Die: D10
Class Skills: Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Skill Points per level: 4+Int mod
Starting Gold: 240

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	PP/Day	Powers Known	Max Powr Level	Special
1st	+1	+2	+0	+0	1	0	—	Mantle (1st), Psychic Aura (30ft.), Psychic Smite +D6
2nd	+2	+3	+0	+0	2	0+1t	0th	Combat Manifestation, Divine Grace, Psionic Talent
3rd	+3	+3	+1	+1	4	0+1t	0th	Ectopic Ally, Psychic Aura (40ft.)
4th	+4	+4	+1	+1	6	0+2t	0th	Psionic Talent, Psychic Smite +2D6
5th	+5	+4	+1	+1	8	1	1st	Bonus Feat, Psychic Aura (50ft.)
6th	+6	+5	+2	+2	12	2	1st	Mantle (2nd)
7th	+7	+5	+2	+2	16	2	1st	Psychic Aura (60ft.), Psychic Smite +3D6
8th	+8	+6	+2	+2	20	3	2nd	Bonus Feat
9th	+9	+6	+3	+3	24	4	2nd	Psychic Aura (70ft., Second Aura)
10th	+10	+7	+3	+3	28	5	3rd	Psychic Smite +4D6
11th	+11	+7	+3	+3	36	5	3rd	Bonus Feat, Psychic Aura (80ft.)
12th	+12	+8	+4	+4	44	6	3rd	Mantle (3rd)
13th	+13	+8	+4	+4	52	7	4th	Psychic Smite +5D6, Psychic Aura (90ft.)
14th	+14	+9	+4	+4	60	8	4th	Bonus Feat
15th	+15	+9	+5	+5	68	8	4th	Psychic Aura (Third Aura), Psychic Aura (100ft.)
16th	+16	+10	+5	+5	80	9	5th	Psychic Smite +6D6
17th	+17	+10	+5	+5	92	9	5th	Bonus Feat, Psychic Aura (110ft.)
18th	+18	+11	+6	+6	104	10	5th	Mantle (4th)
19th	+19	+11	+6	+6	116	10	5th	Psychic Smite +7D6, Psychic Aura (120ft.)
20th	+20	+12	+6	+6	128	11	6th	Bonus Feat, Ascension

Class Features
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Divine minds are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armour (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Powers: A divine mind’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points you have available. Your base daily allotment of power points is given on the table. In addition, you receive bonus power points per day if you have a high Charisma score; unlike your manifester level, this is based on your class level.

You begin play with no psionic powers. Beginning at 5th level, you learn one 1st level divine mind power of your choice. At each level indicated on the table, you unlock the knowledge of a new power, the maximum level of which is indicated in the table. Choose the power known from the list of powers belonging to your chosen mantles. (The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge allow a divine mind to learn powers from the lists of other disciplines or even other classes.) The number of times you can manifest powers in a day is limited only by your daily power points.

You can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level.

Your manifester level is equal to your class level minus 4. For example, a 10th-level divine mind is a 6th-level manifester. You can manifest any power you know that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level.

You simply know your powers; they are ingrained in your mind. You do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though you must take a Long Rest (e.g. 8 hours of sleep) to regain all your spent power points.

The Difficulty Class for saving throws against divine mind powers is 10 + the power’s level + your Charisma modifier.

To learn or manifest a power, you must have an Charisma score of at least 10 + the power’s level.

Mantles: Mantles represent a psionic distillation of a universal concept or philosophical idea that the divine minds believe transcends the multiverse.

Each Mantle gives you a granted power. In addition, it is linked to one or more Domains (see Class Features). You select one of these Domains when you gain the Mantle. You gain the Domain’s granted power in addition to the Mantle’s granted power. In the same manner as a deity grants spells to themselves, you can draw upon this conceptual force to manifest the spells of the Domain as Psi-Like abilities. You can manifest one Psi-Like Ability of each level of powers that you know. (E.g. a 8th level divine mind could manifest one Psi-Like Ability each of 1st and 2nd level per day). You can choose to manifest the Psi-Like Ability of each level from any of the spells granted by the Domains you know. Your caster/manifester level for these Psi-Like Abilities is equal to your class level (not your regular manifester level). The save DC for these Psi-Like Abilities is equal to 10 + ½ your class level plus your Charisma modifier.

(Clarification note: for these psi-like abilties, manifester level and caster level are functionally interchangable; it is NOT the same as the erudite’s Convert Spell to Power ACF where the spells become augmentable powers.)

You gain one Mantle at 1st level. This must be a Mantle whose linked Domain is one of your deity’s Domains, and you must choose a linked Domain from that Mantle which is likewise one of your deity’s Domains.

At 6th level, you gain a second Mantle, which also must be selected by these criterion. You may instead select a second Domain from your first Mantle if it has two or more Domains that your deity grants.

At 12th and 18th level, you gain an additional Mantle. You can choose from any of the remaining mantles (even ones which might oppose your deity’s alignment). You can choose to select a new Domain linked to a Mantle you already know in place of gaining a new Mantle. You gain that Domain’s granted power and can chose the domain’s spells when manifesting your Psi-Like Abilities.

Most of the powers provided by a Mantle are psionic in nature. Some Mantles feature new abilities unlike any psionic power in existence. These abilities are still treated as psionic powers in every respect, and always have a power point cost to manifest.

Mantles and their granted powers are listed below.

Psychic Aura (Su): You know three basic auras: attack, defence, and perception (see below). In addition, each of your chosen mantles adds a specialized aura to your options. You choose one aura to manifest, and its benefits take effect in a radius around you. This aura starts at a radius of 30 feet at 1st level and increases by 10 feet every two levels thereafter (e.g. 40 feet at 3rd level and 120 feet at 19th level).

Most auras affect either you and your allies or just your enemies. As you become more powerful, your aura spreads to encompass a wider area.

Activating an aura is a Swift action. Each aura must be activated individually.

At 9th level, you can have two auras active at the same time; at 15th level, you can have three active auras.

Attack: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.

Defence: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 insight bonus to Armour Class. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.

Perception: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 insight bonus on Perception and Search checks. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.


Psychic Smite (Su): As a Move action, you can imbue one of your weapons (including a natural weapon or your unarmed strikes) with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra D6 points of damage on any attack you wish to activate it on (as long as the attack is made with that weapon). You may hold the charge as long as you like without discharging (even if you drop the weapon), but the charge is lost if the weapon leaves the radius of your psychic aura.
It does not go off on any attack unless you choose to use it, and the charge is not wasted if an attack misses. Mindless creatures are immune to this damage, although non-mindless creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are affected by this damage as normal. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic smite is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away.) A weapon charged with psychic smite deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but you can imbue your weapon with psychic energy again by taking another Move action. Additionally, you may recharge it as a Swift action by expending your psionic focus.

Psychic smite may be used on ranged weapons, but only if the target remains within the radius of your psychic aura. You can bestow a ranged attack beyond this area by expending your psionic focus when making the attack. This discharges the psychic smite, whether the attack hits or misses.

If you have more than one weapon you must imbue each weapon with a psychic strike separately.

At 4th level and every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, etc.), the extra damage from you psychic smite increases by D6.

Combat Manifestation: At 2nd level, you gain Combat Manifestation as bonus feat.

Divine Grace (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on all saving throws.

Psionic Talents: At 2nd level, you learn one psionic talent of your choice from the Psychic Warrior powers list. You learn a second psionic talent at 4th level.

Ectopic Ally (Su): At 3rd, level, you gain the ability to manifest a single special ectopic construct as an ally to aid you in your cause. The ecotopic ally has the statistics of an astral construct created by the Astral Construct power, manifested as Psi-like Ability (and thus automatically augmented to your class level), except it is a creature, not a power effect. It cannot be dispelled, but you must make a DC 20 Concentration check to maintain or manifest it within an Null Psionics field.

It also has an Intelligence of 6, the same alignment as you and gains the appropriate skills and feats.

Once you selects the ectopic ally’s abilities, you may not change them again until you achieve a new level.

You can manifest the ectopic construct into being at will with a Standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. It appears within Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) range, in the same condition (e.g. damage) that it was when unsummoned (except for any damage it might have healed, see below). It persists until you dismiss it or it is reduced to 0 of less hit points.

You can use a Standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity to reabsorb the ectopic ally into yourself, provided it is within the same range. When unsummoned, it cannot be targeted or attacked. Any gear it is wearing or carrying immediately drops into its space.

The ectopic ally cannot heal by itself (unless it has the Fast Healing special ability), but while it is unsummoned, any healing that you receive (including natural healing) also heals the ectopic ally the same amount. (The Fast Healing special ability does not function when the ectopic ally is not manifested.)

If the ectopic ally is reduced to 0 or less hit points, it demanifests immediately and cannot be re-summoned for 24 hours. After this period, it can be manifested again and appears re-appears fully healed.

Ectopic allies can wear equipment or magic items suitable for humanoids of their size, but these items are left behind (along with anything it is carrying) when it is unsummoned or destroyed and must be re-equipped when it is summoned again.

Bonus Feat: At 5th level and every three levels thereafter, you gain a bonus Combat or Psionic Feat for which you meet the prerequisites.

Ascension (Ex): (Capstone) At 20th level, you undergoes an apotheosis and becomes, in effect, a minor divine being. Your type changes to Outsider. You gain the Celestial, Entropic, Fiendish or Resolute template as appropriate to your alignment.

(A true neutral Divine Mind gains instead Damage Reduction 7/– , Resistance 15 to Cold, Electricity and Fire, spell resistance equal to 6 + your HD and one per encounter, you can use a smite which deals D6 plus D6 per 3 HD extra damage to any creature (this is discharged on a hit on any target or the end of the encounter).)

You also gain the supernatural ability to fly (Perfect manoeuvrability) at your base land speed (reduced by armour and encumbrance) via psionic levitation while you are psionically focussed.
Fly becomes a class skill.


Mantle Auras
Air: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Electricity 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Chaos: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonchaotic creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Communication: The divine mind and willing allies within the range of his aura can communicate telepathically through the bond even if you do not share a common language. In addition, you and your allies increase the bonus from flanking by 1 point for every six levels you have.
Conflict: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits. This bonus increases by 1 for every four class levels you have.
Consumption: You can leech power points expended near you. While the aura is active, you can expend your psionic focus as an Immediate action when a power is manifested within your aura. Doing so steals 1 power point plus 1 power point for every six levels you have from the power's manifester. This extra power point is added to your power point reserve; you cannot gain more power points than your normal maximum. This ability has no effect if used while you have a full power point reserve.
This reduces any augmentations first. The manifester may choose from which augmentation the power points are lost. An augmentation that has a cost of 2 or more power points to take effect is lost if a power point is stolen from it and the excess power points are wasted.
If stealing 1 power point would prevent the manifester from being able to manifest the power, you do not gain a power point but the manifester is unable to manifest the power; no power points are expended.
Corruption and Madness: Your aura disquiets and disturbs the minds of those who oppose you. All enemies within your aura must make Concentration checks (DC 10 + ½ your divine mind level + your Charisma modifier) to manifest powers, cast spells, or use psi-like or spell-like abilities.
Creation: All Constructs within your aura heal at a rate of 1 hit point plus 1 hit point for every five levels you have every round.
Death: You and your allies within the your aura deal 1 extra point of negative energy damage plus 1 point for every five class levels you have on weapon damage rolls.
Deception: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 insight bonus on Bluff checks made to feint in combat. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to feint as a Move action, as if you have the Improved Feint feat.
Destruction: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against wounded foes and ignore the same amount of Hardness when attacking and object or making a Sunder manoeuvre. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Earth: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Acid 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Elements: When this aura goes into effect, you must choose to align it to one of the four elemental subtypes (air, earth, fire, water). While you are psionically focused, your attacks and the attacks of allies within your aura overcome the damage reduction (if any) of any creatures of the subtype to which you are aligned.
Energy: Your wielded weapons and those wielded by allies within your aura deal 1 extra point of energy damage of your active element plus 1 point for every five class levels you have on weapon damage rolls.
Evil: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonevil creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Fate: You gives your allies insight into the battle being waged around you, allowing them to bend fate to their will. Once every 10 minutes, each affected creature can choose to add gain a +2 insight bonus on any one D20 roll. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Fire: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Fire 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Force: You and all allies within your aura reduces the miss chance for striking incorporeal creatures by 10%. For every five levels you have, this bonus reduces by another 10% (until 20th level, where the miss chance disappears completely).
Freedom: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on Escape Artist checks and CMD verses grapple attacks and grapple checks made to escape a grapple. This bonus increases by 1 for every four class levels you have.
Good: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nongood creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Guardian: You and all allies within your aura gain Damage Reduction 1/— while you are psionically focused. This damage reduction increases by 1 for every five class levels you have (DR 2/— at 5th level, 3/— at 10th level, and so on).
Justice: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls against a foe that has attacked you or another ally. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Knowledge: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge checks. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to grant yourself or an ally the ability to make a Knowledge check untrained.
Law: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonlawful creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Life: Creatures in your presence feel rejuvenated and are more resistant to death effects. While it is active, allies affected by this aura gain a +2 bonus on saves against death spells, powers or psionic death effects and negative energy effects. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Light and Darkness: You can reduce of increase the light conditions by one step within your aura. For every six levels you has, you may increase or decrease the light conditions by one more step. For the purposes of interaction with magical lighting sources, this effect is treated as a power of 1/3 your class level.
Love: Your allies gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against charms and compulsions. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Magic: You and all allies within your aura are treated as wielding magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction.
Mental Tower: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Natural World: All animals, plants, and fey within your aura heal at a rate of 1 hit point every plus 1 hit point for every five levels you have every round.
Pain and Suffering: You and all allies within your aura can chose to take 1 points of damage whenever you or they hit a foe with a melee attack to deal 2 extra points of damage. For every five levels you have, the damage taken increases by +1 and the damage dealt increases by +2.
Physical Power: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on combat manoeuvres. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
The Planes: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on caster level checks or manifester level checks made to overcome the spell resistance or power resistance of outsiders. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to pinpoint the location of any outsider or extraplanar creature within your aura.
Repose: While you are psionically focused, you and allies within your aura ignore the effects of Fatigue. If an ally within your aura becomes Exhausted for any reason, they are treated as Fatigued instead. Your aura does not dispel Fatigue, it merely suppresses the negative effects.
Time: You give allies within your aura the ability to see just a moment into the future, increasing their reaction time. Anyone affected by your aura gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to gain the benefits of Combat Reflexes feat for 1 round. If you have Combat Reflexes, you may make one additional attack of opportunity per round.
Water: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Cold 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.

Mantle	Linked Domains
Air Mantle	Air, Cloud, Storm, Windstorm
Chaos Mantle	Chaos, Madness
Communication Mantle	Community, Dream, Pact
Conflict Mantle
Consumption Mantle	Gluttony, Hunger, Thirst
Corruption and Madness Mantle	Madness, Envy, Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Pride, Sloth, Wrath
Creation Mantle	Craft, Creation, Sand, Trade, Wealth
Death Mantle	Death, Deathbound, Grave, Undeath
Deception Mantle	Deception, Espionage, Illusion, Trickery
Destruction Mantle	Destruction
Earth Mantle	Cavern, Earth, Sand
Elements Mantle	Air, Earth, Fire, Water
Energy Mantle	Dreemaenhyll Element Domains
Evil Mantle	Domination, Evil, Hatred, Tyranny, Undeath
Fate Mantle	Curse, Fate, Luck, Mysticism, Oracle, Planning
Fire Mantle	Courage, Fire, Sun
Force Mantle	Force
Freedom Mantle	Freedom, Liberation, Revolution
Good Mantle	Celestial, Courage, Glory, Joy , Good, Nobility
Guardian Mantle	Protection, Purification
Knowledge Mantle	Knowledge, Memory
Law Mantle	Balance, Law
Life Mantle	Healing, Renewal
Light and Darkness Mantle	Chill, Darkness, Fire, Sun
Love	Charm, Community, Family, Love Lust, Pact, Pleasure
Magic Mantle	Fey, Magic, Rune, Spell
Mental Power Mantle	Mentalism, Mind
Natural World Mantle	Animal, Fey, Plant, Summer, Sun, Winter
Pain and Suffering Mantle	Pestilence, Suffering, Thirst
Physical Power Mantle	Strength
The Planes Mantle	Portal, Summoner, Travel
Repose Mantle	Repose
Time Mantle	Celerity, Moon, Summer, Time, Winter
Water Mantle	Slime, Ocean, Water

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

Some thoughts: Smoothing out the ood power proegression (I think that comes from the old mind's eye articles?)

Both it and the Ardent are very strapped for choice of powers (as they come from mantles only), though the Ardent a bit less so, since it gets more mantles sooner.

The manifester level being class level -4 was fine right up until the point I realised that the 8th level NPC I was building could, NOT, in fact augment any of his five powers, becuse his manifester level was, in fact, 4. And he had 32 PP at level eight to basically do crap all with.



Hell, let me show you the results of The Best I Could Think To do, given Asmodeus' domains (Domains Evil, Fire, Law, Magic, Trickery/ Subdomains Arcane, Ash, Corruption, Deception, Devil (Evil), Devil (Law), Divine, Greed, Legislation (Law), Smoke, Sovereignty).

Though sorry, you'll have to deal with a standard 3.Aotrs statblock...


Vortan
Human Divine Mind 8 (Asmodeus)
LE Medium Humanoid (Human)
HD 8D10+16 (58hp) Init +2 SPD 40’ SPACE 5/5
AC 21/11/20 (+1 Dex, +10 Full Plate +1, +2 Heavy Steel Shield, +2 Dodge)
BAB +8 CMB +9 CMD 20/20
ATTACK +10/+5 Longsword +1 (D8+1 (+2+1 Fire)), 19-20)
+10/+5 Composite Longbow (D8+1, 20/x3)
+10 Firebolt (D6+4 Fire)
CA Divine Grace, Ectopic Ally, Psychic Aura (60’, Attack, Defense, Fire, Magic, Perception), Psychic Smite +3D6
SQ Resistance to Fire 10
SV Fort +11 Ref +11 Will +5
Str 12 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 16
Climb +12, Concentration +13 (+4 manifesting defensively), Perception +8, Sense Motive +11, Use Magic Device +14
Combat Manifestation^B, Deep Impact, Dodge, Greater Psionic Weapon, Power Attack, Psionic Dodge, Psionic Meditation, Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
CR 7
Domains:
Fire: Firebolt (D6+4, 3/Day), Resistance to Fire 10
Magic: Hand of the Acolyte (3/Day), Dispelling Touch (1/Day)
Mantles:
Fire: Flaming Aura
Magic: Magic Knack
Psi-Like Abilities (Ps): Manifester Level 8
1st (1/Day): Burning Hands or Identify
2nd (1/Day): Produce Flame or Magic Mouth
Psionics: Power Points: 32 Divine Mind Manifester Level 4 DC 13+lvl
0th: Far HandA, Detect Psionics
1st: Control FlamesA, Metaphysical WeaponA
2nd: Energy EmanationA
Equipment: Full Plate +1, Heavy Steel Shield, Longsword +1, Composite Longbow (+1 Str) (20 arrows), Potion of Bull’s Strength, 685gp, 5 day’s rations
Languages: Common

Grunt
Ectopic Ally
N Medium Construct
HD 5D10+20 (47hp) Init +2 SPD 40’ SPACE 5/5
AC 22/12/20 (+2 Dex, +10 Natural)
BAB +5 CMB +14 (+16G) CMD 26/24 (28/26G)
ATTACK +15 Slam (D6+14)
SV Fort +1 Ref +3 Will +1
SQ Construct Traits, Darkvision 60’, Low Light Vision, Muscle (+4 Str)
Str 29 Dex 15 Con - Int 6 Wis 11 Cha 10 AL N
Perception +5
Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Slam)
CR -
Languages: Common


Again, any help or suggestions would be greatly apprciated.

[Maat Mons]

I’ve only briefly skimmed the class, so my feedback might be off-base, but here’s what jumps out at me. Other than spells, the high levels of the class largely just consist of gaining more of what you already had at lower levels. I’d try to come up with some high-level features for players to look forward to. For Paladin-esque classes, some of my favorites are Mettle, Improved Mettle, immunity to Fear, immunity to Charm, immunity to Compulsion, and immunity to Mind-Affecting. The way I see it, if you’re only going to have 6th level spells when others have 9th level spells, the class features had better be darn appealing to make up for it.

Some of the Mantle Auras seem quite underwhelming. For example, treating weapons as magic for purposes of overcoming DR stops being useful when everyone has magic weapons… or when you’re making routine use of Greater Magic Weapon. Granting allies bonuses to feint doesn’t change the fact that feinting only really works for characters built for it. Also, even if everyone in the group could benefit from fainting, why does it only offer +6 at 20th level when you could instead have +5 to all combat maneuvers? While it’s not exactly comparable, I can’t help but feel that Communal Resist Energy is better than all the Mantle Powers that give energy resistance. The Mantle Powers that give a Resistance bonus on saves would all overlap with the save-improving magic items that everyone always buys.

[Aotrs Commander]

First off, AFTER posting thsi thread and turning the computer off for the night, I acrtually grabbed Complete Psionic out and took a quick look and IMEEDDIATELY noticed a glaring issue that the CmpPsi Divine Mind had Good Will saves. That is likely 100% a table copy/paster error, not a decision on my part. I REALLY should have noticed it only had one good save last night when I was painstakingly making the table, but I rolled a Natural 1 because I am very tired these days.

So that's fixed (and Vortan's will save is thus now up to +9...)


Secondly, for some reason, I took Wild Telent (gained at first level) from the Divine Mind, when I'm thinking MAYBE I not only should have kept it, but made it Hidden Talent as well, if I don't do anything more radial. (Lke I did with PF Soulknife... *pauses to check* Like I AM doing NOW with the Soulknife, since reading my own rules, there's literally no reason why you wouldn't take the alternate class feature as I've written, duh, and I even thought I HAD made it automatic, so...)

Though that again, is perhaps a case of "lots of low-level abilities."



I am going to be honest, looking at it, I suspect I made only a cursory pass on Divine Mind in hindsight, because i perahps at the time did not fancy doing a stupendous amount of work making stuff up for one class. (My more recent work on the Fangshi (nee PF kineticist) laughs.) Dangit.

I’ve only briefly skimmed the class, so my feedback might be off-base, but here’s what jumps out at me. Other than spells, the high levels of the class largely just consist of gaining more of what you already had at lower levels. I’d try to come up with some high-level features for players to look forward to. For Paladin-esque classes, some of my favorites are Mettle, Improved Mettle, immunity to Fear, immunity to Charm, immunity to Compulsion, and immunity to Mind-Affecting. The way I see it, if you’re only going to have 6th level spells when others have 9th level spells, the class features had better be darn appealing to make up for it.

Fair point, actually, as I'd only really looked at up to 8th level, when that second set of Domain granted powers comes in.

Some of the Mantle Auras seem quite underwhelming. For example, treating weapons as magic for purposes of overcoming DR stops being useful when everyone has magic weapons… or when you’re making routine use of Greater Magic Weapon. Granting allies bonuses to feint doesn’t change the fact that feinting only really works for characters built for it. Also, even if everyone in the group could benefit from fainting, why does it only offer +6 at 20th level when you could instead have +5 to all combat maneuvers? While it’s not exactly comparable, I can’t help but feel that Communal Resist Energy is better than all the Mantle Powers that give energy resistance. The Mantle Powers that give a Resistance bonus on saves would all overlap with the save-improving magic items that everyone always buys.

Communcal Resist energy is probably too good because I realised that I had negelcted to add the auras for Air/Earth/Fire/Water and, havign used Fire for Vortan, franticlly made something up without checking to work out where those manle auras had come from.

Come this morning, they do indeed come from the Divine Mind BUT the Air/Earth/Fire/Water mantles are either something I made up myself or found ont he now-gone I believe Mind's Eye articles, not sure which.

The rest of the mantle auras are straight out of Complete Divine.