OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread

[Psyren]

Tarquin would like to know your location.

Also Crystal/Bozzok. (Although, I guess they're not in the way anymore.)

Or, Bloodfeast may be in it for the bloodshed and gore. I mean, he does hang around with Belkar.

Considering the environment he grew up in before Belkar, he's practically a saint.

[gatemansgc]

I'm not totally on top of the time crunch, but they may actually be able to squeeze in a long rest before Team Evil finishes the Gauntlet. In which case, Calder strengthening the Order (both narratively by impressing Serini, and mechanically by giving the paladins and Minrah badly-needed XP) could be a very good thing ultimately.

didn't think about the XP they'd gain by defeating such an insanely high level opponent! a wyrm-aged red dragon has a CR of 24!

[Peelee]

I don't get it. I must not be catching your wry humor.

- M

No worries, it's incredibly overrated anyway.

[Psychronia]

Was V's villain monologue better? Did they even have one? All I can think of is "We are all in the Monster Manual somewhere, are we not? My Entry lies between Elemental and Etherial Filtcher."

Xykon has badass speeches for days though.
And Tarquin definitely had some too, because unlike Caulder, he was an arc villain and not just a filler. Right now, our egotistic friend's narrative role is little more than as a setback and maybe a yummy chunk of XP.

Actually, even the last dragon V fought had a better speech, didn't she?

Who else...Miko had a few solid villainous rants. Bozzok's delivery after his Sneak Attack was nice and intimidating. How does everyone rate Kubota?

The point is, Caulder, you're weaksauce and pretty much on the level of that one sorceress bandit. Sam, I think?

[Doug Lampert]

This. Calder just practically had his face broken by an instantaneous size-change inside his mouth. He should at the very least be barely able to speak and unable to bite and possibly breathe fire, and now it looks like he just took a dagger straight to the eye (or eye socket).

What ridiculous uber-mountain of HP does he have? I guess it's as much as the plot/script says he does. And/or he's got some kind of damage reduction going on and/or the Order are rolling really low for their damage.

On the plus side, I'm impressed by Bloodfeast's durability. He(?) should be down by now, then again maybe there have been defensive buffs and potions applied somehow prior to the fight.

Also, I guess as long as the Order are offending Calder's ego and causing him to turn away and monologue, he's not biting and/or breathing on Bloodfeast, who gets to attack with impunity.

As many have said, "Dragon".

Straight by the book, no prestige classes or special advancement or elite abilities:
Old, 378 HP
Very old, 449 HP
Ancient, 527 HP
Wyrm, 610 HP
Great wyrm, 660 HP

Straight by the book, a level 8 spell means Wyrm or Great Wyrm, he doesn't look big enough for that, but class levels would imply elite stats as well as a few more HD, and thus probably boost Con by 4 or more points, so over 600 HP is probable.

I don't get it. I must not be catching your wry humor.

You are a bad person who does bad things. Just letting you know, puns like that are evil.

[Shining Wrath]

"I am Calder". Yeah, and you're about to be dragon steaks.
Clerics are healing - Minrah is helping Bloodfeast, Durkon is helping V; Serini is firing her crossbow (which I assume is +5, given epic rogue), I think Belkar got a critical hit near the eye, and V got in a lightning bolt.

V with the punchline! Darth V did give some nice speeches on the way to being almost killed.

[Psyren]

Was V's villain monologue better? Did they even have one? All I can think of is "We are all in the Monster Manual somewhere, are we not? My Entry lies between Elemental and Etherial Filtcher."

"Shredded your baby into a trillion lifeless specks of ash" probably qualifies.

How does everyone rate Kubota?

What is a "Kubota?"

[Ruck]

Oh, boy, Calder is showing his hubris. He's not much longer for this world.

Calder is just giving the draconic version of Bender's "This is the worst kind of discrimination: the kind against me" bit.

And i love it.

Ahahahah.

Calling it, Xykon will show up with an undead dragon and an undead dinosaur.

I'll take that bet.

How does everyone rate Kubota?

As a villain? Vastly overestimating his own capabilities. As a speechmaker? Slightly better.

[TheNecrocomicon]

As many have said, "Dragon".

Straight by the book, no prestige classes or special advancement or elite abilities:
Old, 378 HP
Very old, 449 HP
Ancient, 527 HP
Wyrm, 610 HP
Great wyrm, 660 HP

Straight by the book, a level 8 spell means Wyrm or Great Wyrm, he doesn't look big enough for that, but class levels would imply elite stats as well as a few more HD, and thus probably boost Con by 4 or more points, so over 600 HP is probable.

I guess that's mechanically one of the things that annoyed me about D&D in the 5E campaign I've played, that a big bad opponent like Calder can basically shrug off any status effects they want, and no matter who it is, they fight at top capacity right up until they lose their last hit point and suddenly drop. Like unless you metaphorically pull teeth to find out, there's no way to tell how close or far you are from taking out some big threatening opponent until the fight is completely done.

Besides, he's a dragon, not a god. A dragon, IMO, shouldn't have stats that rival the avatar of a deity, no matter how old and nasty they get.

At the very least, Calder should have suffered some kind of lasting injury from having a creature as big as himself instantly returning to that size inside of his mouth. It should have destroyed his jaw and left him unable to speak and bite at a minimum, and thus made him less of a threat. Instead, it's like there was zero effect whatsoever, because the plot said so.

[Peelee]

Besides, he's a dragon, not a god.

Excuse me?

[Kantaki]

WasRight now, our egotistic friend's narrative role is little more than as a setback and maybe a yummy chunk of XP.

To quote Morte from An Arsonist and a Necromancer walk into a Bar* when asked whether dragons taste good.

"Surprisingly enough, no," Morte answered her. "You'd think it would taste like any other lizard—a little gamey, sure, but fine enough—but no! The main issue is that they're inherently magical creatures, so they've always got this nasty kick to them. Plus they're hell to cook, what with being immune to fire, so you'd have a better time marinating them in lime juice then trying to cook them traditionally. Unless you're doing it for bragging rights, it's just not worth it."

With should apply to Calder, seeing that he's a red dragon.
Well, the cooking part at least.

*Great story. Can recommend.

[KorvinStarmast]

Besides, he's a dragon, not a god.

The name of the game is Dungeons and Dragons. They are indeed special, in so very many ways.

To quote Morte from An Arsonist and a Necromancer walk into a Bar* when asked whether dragons taste good.

"Surprisingly enough, no," Morte answered her. "You'd think it would taste like any other lizard—a little gamey, sure, but fine enough—but no! The main issue is that they're inherently magical creatures, so they've always got this nasty kick to them. Plus they're hell to cook, what with being immune to fire, so you'd have a better time marinating them in lime juice then trying to cook them traditionally.

Calder Brand ceviche. I can definitely get on board with that epicure delight!

[Provengreil]

As many have said, "Dragon".

Straight by the book, no prestige classes or special advancement or elite abilities:
Old, 378 HP
Very old, 449 HP
Ancient, 527 HP
Wyrm, 610 HP
Great wyrm, 660 HP

Straight by the book, a level 8 spell means Wyrm or Great Wyrm, he doesn't look big enough for that, but class levels would imply elite stats as well as a few more HD, and thus probably boost Con by 4 or more points, so over 600 HP is probable.

True, but once they're properly on target the Order can do that kind of damage in a very short amount of time, and that's the position they're in now. Belkar and Roy in particular are getting full attacks, Durkon has always been noted to be unusually proficient as a combatant for a cleric, Bloodfeast is fully online, all the grappling is letting Haley (and Serini, who has now actually fired a bolt) get sneak attacks if I remember the grapple rules, V is back in the fight and now at minimal risk, and all of this is after the 8 or more combat rounds this has already lasted(8 breath weapons: 1d4 recharge, it's been at least 8 rounds with an average of about 20).

Plus, I'm thinking the Paladins are likely to arrive with Sunny back online, which won't help Calder.

That said, I remain by my prediction that simply damaging Calder to death is not how this fight ends. I'm still expecting him to flee, and indirectly help Team Evil somehow as a result.

[Psychronia]

Unless you're doing it for bragging rights, it's just not worth it."

I stand corrected. A large but not yummy chunk of XP it is.

That said, I can totally see Belkar cooking him for the bragging right.

[jokem]

Calder is just giving the draconic version of Bender's "This is the worst kind of discrimination: the kind against me" bit.

And i love it.

Who is Bender?

[Kish]

At the very least, Calder should have suffered some kind of lasting injury from having a creature as big as himself instantly returning to that size inside of his mouth. It should have destroyed his jaw and left him unable to speak and bite at a minimum, and thus made him less of a threat. Instead, it's like there was zero effect whatsoever, because the plot said so.

How about: Because the game rules say so? As you said, hit points reduction doesn't have any mechanical effect until hit points reach 0. Sometimes it benefits the protagonists, sometimes the antagonists, but it's always the way it works here. This is an aspect of D&D often criticized, but if you want to not encounter it, you need to find a White Wolf-based webcomic.

For the other part, I have good news for you though: In 3.5ed, this is nowhere near the power of an avatar of a deity. Any of those could still annihilate everyone in this room, Order and Calder alike, without effort. If they were allowed to do that kind of thing on the Prime Material Plane, which they aren't. But it's not lack of sheer power that stops them.

[jokem]

blood feast is getting a heal, at least it looks like it, in the 4th panel.

I don't think she is high enough level for that, but certainly a Cure Serious Wounds.

I wonder what spell Durkon cast on V? Was it a full blown Heal spell, or maybe a Cure Crit?

[LadyEowyn]

Who is Bender?

Robot from Futurama, an animated TV show.

[Reboot]

I wonder what spell Durkon cast on V? Was it a full blown Heal spell, or maybe a Cure Crit?

Considering the state of V last page vs this one, if it's not a Heal, that's only because the Heal wasn't enough and they needed a Cure on top.

[Naysmith]

Excuse me?

I've heard godhood is a downgrade from dragonhood. (Wrath of the Righteous video game)

[Peelee]

I've heard godhood is a downgrade from dragonhood. (Wrath of the Righteous video game)

Mhm yeah that's right.


I'm getting to like this Naysmith person.

[The MunchKING]

I've heard godhood is a downgrade from dragonhood. (Wrath of the Righteous video game)

Bahaumet and Tiamat got it good then as both.

[Peelee]

Bahaumet and Tiamat got it good then as both.

For sure, but you have you feel bad for the others. Not every god is fortunate enough to be a dragon.

[Unoriginal]

How sad it must be to learn you're not the villain, you're just in the way.

:"Don't worry. You'll live."

[Doug Lampert]

For sure, but you have you feel bad for the others. Not every god is fortunate enough to be a dragon.

Eh, they're shapechangers with massive powers like reality revision and miracle and polymorph any object.

If they are not dragons, it is their own fault for not being smart enough to want to be dragons.

[LookieLouE1707]

"You think me a mere obstacle on the way to greater glory!?"

"If I gave you any thought, I probably would."

[Rinazina]

As many have said, "Dragon".

Straight by the book, no prestige classes or special advancement or elite abilities:
Wyrm, 610 HP
Great wyrm, 660 HP

Straight by the book, a level 8 spell means Wyrm or Great Wyrm, he doesn't look big enough for that, but class levels would imply elite stats as well as a few more HD, and thus probably boost Con by 4 or more points, so over 600 HP is probable.

but can he cast some Heal? I don't know where to find these stats

[Kish]

but can he cast some Heal? I don't know where to find these stats

Here, to what limited extent Rich feels bound by them.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Poor Calder, 500+ chapters ago you could have been really important or something.

[gatemansgc]

As many have said, "Dragon".

Straight by the book, no prestige classes or special advancement or elite abilities:
Old, 378 HP
Very old, 449 HP
Ancient, 527 HP
Wyrm, 610 HP
Great wyrm, 660 HP

Straight by the book, a level 8 spell means Wyrm or Great Wyrm, he doesn't look big enough for that, but class levels would imply elite stats as well as a few more HD, and thus probably boost Con by 4 or more points, so over 600 HP is probable.


You are a bad person who does bad things. Just letting you know, puns like that are evil.

i'd imagine wyrm age? he's as big as the ancient black dragon that fought V, but he looks older.