Results 61 to 90 of 97
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2024-04-20, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2020
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2024-04-20, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2023
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2024-04-21, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
This interview actually fixes a fair chunk of my issues with the show.
TL;DR: The show is confirmed to have flubbed the timeline.
SpoilerSo Shady Sands was definitively destroyed AFTER the events of New Vegas.
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2024-04-21, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- California, USA
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Reading through the article, I saw no assertion that the show messed up. Merely “All I can say is we’re threading it tighter there, but the bombs fall just after the events of New Vegas.”
Did I miss the point where they said they flubbed it? Or was that in the actual interview and not in the written article?
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2024-04-21, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
SpoilerI think they just thought people would understand that writing a date and then having an arrow after that and then a bomb depiction would indicate a passage of time.
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2024-04-21, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
The show indicates that said event happens in 2277, which is the same year as Fallout 3, and 4 years before New Vegas. The clarification is that the event happens sometime after New Vegas (i.e. after 2281).
SpoilerThe issue is that Shady Sands could not have fallen before 2281, elsewise none of the events of New Vegas make sense. "The Fall of Shady Sands" is listed as 2277 on the chalkboard.
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2024-04-21, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- California, USA
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2024-04-22, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I solidly enjoyed the show - I went in with no real positive expectations (anything after Fallout 2 has been something of a let down - to put it mildly) and it turned out to be very good in my view.
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2024-04-23, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I’ve been playing Fallout 2 again, and it has only made me more annoyed with this particular plot point.
SpoilerThe NCR is supposed to cover most of California. In Fallout 2, prior to the 40 years of growth it gets before New Vegas, the NCR is supposed to have a population of 700K+. This is before they canonically take over places like Vault City and Redding. It doesn’t account for them taking over San Francisco (though that may have been nuked by the Enclave depending on which version of canon you pick).
How the hell did Shady Sands only have 22K people? How did nuking it matter at all to the survival of the NCR? The place is flipping HUGE. It is hundreds of miles of more or less civilized territory that wouldn’t have been scratched by the size crater we see in the show.
It would have been far better if they had set the show concurrently with Fallout 1. Set it somewhere just far enough off the beaten path to not upset canon and make up a new settlement to get nuked. Or he’ll, set it BEFORE Fallout 1 and use The Glow as your nuked location. It would be a retcon, but at least it wouldn’t be pants on head stupid. Or just do what other adaptations have done and call it an AU.
Though I’ll reiterate, I still found the show a lot of fun, despite its issues.
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2024-04-23, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Spoiler: RodinShady Sands had 34k from what I recall, and TBH I don't think it's too far-fetched that a country with a population of 700k has a capital with a population of 34k. Eg. the US has a population of 333 million, DC has a population of just under 700k.
And losing the seat of all your bureaucracy at once would definitely be a helluva blow to your coherency as a nation. That said, some remnants should still exist and I hope they go into that as splinter governments have popped up elsewhere.
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2024-04-23, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2023
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
SpoilerRemnants did exist. Moldaver is even in charge of one. I hope Bethesda isn't going with "the NCR was completely wiped off the wasteland" but, as you opined, just scattered and disorganized. As I recall, they were already showing signs of decline and corruption in New Vegas, so it wouldn't be entirely off base for them to splinter into smaller factions in the wake of the capital falling.
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2024-04-23, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
So I was wondering about Vault 31, 32, and 33. Because it reminded me of a novel called Wool.
Spoiler: Wool and Fallout spoiler
Like Fallout, Wool had Silos that acted as last vestige of human civilization.
Also part of experiment and controlled by single vault/silo via Vault 31 resident/IT department.
Plus Vault 32 might have suffered like one Silo who overthrew their IT department…except it was chemical gas with only one survivor (but judging by the corpses, most corpses in Vault 32 didn’t have choking posture or “died where they stood”, so not that case).
Last edited by t209; 2024-04-23 at 11:56 PM.
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2024-04-24, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I don't remember much of playing computer games over the years but I do remember some of by first playthough of Fallout back in 1997 (maybe 1998) - I didn't find the water chip as I missed the area of a map in the Necropolis that linked to the needed map, and Shady Sands was essentially destroyed as I got into a fight with Ian and everyone decided to help him are two pieces that I do remember.
So as far as I am concerned everything related to the NCR is dubious anyway so it is hard to be annoyed at any choices that are made regarding it.
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2024-04-24, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
SpoilerI think we saw the “splinter government”. It was those 3 guys in NCR uniforms, two of whom are now dead.
My point is that the NCR is BIG. Size of California big. It doesn’t have the population of modern California, but it’s still got a lot of ground under its remit. What we are shown in the show is The Wasteland as it exists in Fallout 3. No central power anywhere, and nobody trying to make one. But that doesn’t track with the entire region having been settled and recivilized for the past 50 years, with only Shady Sands going bye-bye 20 years ago. The entire region would be under the control of somebody, and the remnants of the NCR wouldn’t be a camp full of barbarian raiders (remember how Moldavers forces acted in episode 1), there would be full city states and after 20 years probably full countries springing up to fill the power vacuum.
We aren’t getting a functioning country as a breakaway successor to the NCR. Or even several less functioning ones. To Bethesda, Fallout will always exist in the “day after the bombs hit” with nobody but radroaches and super mutants living in the ruins. Post-post apocalypse isn’t the story they want to tell, and I think that’s kinda sad because there’s lots more interesting stories that will never be explored.
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2024-04-24, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Dijon, France
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Spoiler: reply to ryginAnd more to the point, modern day California has a population of around 39 million, while the capital, Sacramento has a population just over 500k, or around 1.3 percent of the total population. In game, shady sands has nearly 5% of the population, so a relatively believable number
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2024-04-26, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2022
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Accidentally put my response in the wrong thread, so I'll put my comments here.
Generally, I enjoyed the series. Yeah. It did have a few "why did that happen?" bits. Some of them were the classic idiot ball bits (but honestly, could be explained by the two main characters basically being super naive about the world they were traveling in, so not so bad).
I only actually played through Fallout 1 and 2 myself, but had a number of friends play (and talk about) the later games, so I guess I didn't have the same kinda dogmatic connection to various setting elements that others maybe did (NCR specifically). I felt that the elements that were there were sufficient for telling the story they were telling, and felt sufficiently "Fallouty" to me.
Spoiler
I wasn't as bothered by the whole Vault 32 bits. It felt to me like this was specifically left as a mystery to perhaps be explained at a later date. It did seem odd to me that, upon realizing that their entire valut existence was about an experiment in control that they'd go nuts and kill eachother. That seemed... extreme. Honestly, given the environment they lived in and grew up in, I'd expect the response to discovering that Vault 31 was made up of frozen managers who were there to take control and run the other two Vaults should have been "Oh. Well that makes sense". We're literally talking about people who are a dozen generations of folks living in Vaults and are pretty darn indoctrinated into "follow the rules" mentalities anyway. That felt less like some horrific experiment as a pretty standard command structure one might set up for something like this. When the only "Horrific truth" is that the leaders aren't just born into Vaults like everone else, but were selected from frozen managers specifically there to guide and run the vaults, but otherwise seemed to actually be trying to run the vaults with the exact objectives and methods that everyone living there already know about, there really isn't a whole lot to be upset about. Cerrtainly not something that would drive a population of (let's be honest "sheeple") into suicidal violence.
Also assume that more stuff about The Ghoul will be revealed in season 2. Glaringly missing is how he became a ghoul, and what happened between the events in the final flashback and the scene at the very begining whe he and his daughter are doing the birthday party.
Ditto about Moldaver. We see that she's running around in the past, harping about technolog being horded/blocked by Vault-Tec, and running some sort of resistence organization. But other than an almost flyby flashback sequence, we don't know anything else about that. It's just enough to set up the whole "fusion power tech" bit, but nothing else. How she survived this long. Where she was. Why she's doing what she's doing. All missing. I will say that the whole "turned on the power source and all the lights come back on" was silly (why can't they hire people who can write for TV/Film who also have a basic grounding in science/reality?), but given the setting itself bothered me a lot less than when the same thing happened in the Revolution TV series (which wasn't supposed to already be a parody of 50s science gone wrong).
And yeah, lots of stuff about the Enclave that is just missing. That's honestly the one bit I could see someone who's never played the games being completely confused by in the series, since I don't recall them ever saying what it was, how it came to exist, what its purpose was, etc. It's just there. Has folks doing science stuf. And the one science guy escapes (with his dog), and has the fusion thingie, but how they came to be there, what their purpose is, and how they fit into other groups/places is just never even addressed at all. It's one thing for someone coming from the Vaults thinking nothing is left on the surface to find the dregs floating around, and even the Brotherhood makes a bit of sense (and there's enough time spent on that due to Maximus), but the Enclave? No backstory or explanation is given for it.
The series could have done with maybe even one character serving as narrator to the audience (and done via dialogue with Lucy) to explain how the Enclave, Vaults, BoS, and the various towns/states/whatever (and the NCR) fit together (even if it's just how that narrator thinks they fit together). Dr. Wilzig would have been the perfect character for this, but wasn't used (possibly because they wanted to hold some stuff/mystery back to points after when he dies). So unfortunately, everything was in dribs and drabs, and there isn't really a complete picture.
Still. I felt that there was enough there for the story they told to work. But yeah, it definitely felt like season 1 of a 2 season story arc. Nothing is really resolved at the end. What we did get was reveals about people and events, which fits more into a mid-act spot in a full story.
Also not explained is the drug that the ghouls use to keep themselves human(ish). Where does it come from? How did The Ghoul apparently have access to this the whole time? And yeah, I expect that those are more details to come in season 2 (and presuambly will come with more explanation of the Enclave and how it fits in with the events leading up to the first war). Someone clearly was operating on the surface the whole time and capable of using tech, and doing science (likely involving experiments in human survival in a radioactive environment, leading to the ghouls in the first place). My assumption is that in the process of explaining this, and The Ghoul, they'll also explain more about the Enclave (and New Vegas) as well. And that's slated for season 2.
All in all though, it was a fun romp. I had no issues with some of the more absurd bits, because it's supposed to have a bit of that. People don't always behave how they should. They behave like they're in a "future as envisioned in the 1950s gone horribly wrong". Which is exactly right IMO.
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2024-04-29, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I've gotten a few episodes further. I have additional complaints.
Spoiler
So, it's definitely three vaults, cool. It still...doesn't answer my question about how the dad let this disaster happen. He's the overseer, clearly the overseers are communicating, it's as if they are distinctly trying to make this all as incoherent as possible. If they did all kill themselves in the one vault because they learned the truth, uh, why? This is weird. Some sort of SCP like knowledge that kills, cool, I'm down for that as a plot element, but this appears to be just some "oh, we were lied to, and they were actually evil" which doesn't really justify mass suicide. That's...not the logical next step here.
The ghoul's motivations remain sort of incoherent. He goes from being willing to do literally anything for drugs to literally just dropping them on the ground because he saw an old tv show of himself. Cool, I guess. It doesn't even make sense why he has to shovel them from the box to his hat. Why not just take the box of them? Was it just important to show him dropping them on the ground, I guess?
Maximus still remains kind of unsympathetic. As a schemer, he isn't amazing. He's slowly getting a little development, but mostly it just extends the lack of sympathy to most of his faction. If everyone in a group is evil and incompetent, why would I care about them? I just kind of want them to get offed.
It is really weird for them to focus on making stimpacks basically magic solutions to everything. Especially when your plot hinges around a guy getting an unfixable slow wound, which requires a horrific limb addition, which is basically terrible and he has to die anyways. Seriously, one stimpack would fix this, apparently, but everyone forgot this, despite this guy literally being deus ex expositiona the rest of the time. It feels like a strange element to fixate on in any case. It's a game mechanic, not an essential setting bit. Tons of games have instant heals for gameplay purposes, but aren't a big factor in the narrative.
I am relatively sure that the drug that keeps ghouls human is a new invention. It's not terrible, but it sort of is at odds with prior depictions of ghouls. 3, in particular, had large factions of both fairly human and feral ghouls, and drug usage wasn't connected to this. I am also going to deduct at least 500 Batman V Superman points for the "My name is Martha" bit.
It seems pretty clear already that we're foreshadowing a Vault Tec is actually evil reveal. This should surprise basically nobody who has paid attention to prior games. However, in the games, there's already kind of a narrative about why the bombs drop, why the vaults exist and are experiment chambers, etc. Essentially, it all boils down to the aliens. The aliens exist, and various factions are aware of them. The vaults seem designed to test problems with interstellar travel, and the whole experiment basically designed to force humanity into preparing to go deal with the aliens...albeit in ways that predictably go wholly wrong, of course. I do not expect the show to remain consistent with this, since aliens haven't really been mentioned at all.
The raiders form kind of a weird plot point. The naivety felt...over the top. Yes, vault tec advertisement is cheery to the point of ridiculousness, but vault dwellers in general have not been portrayed as insanely gullible. Time capsuled and sort of out of touch? Absolutely. But the acceptance of the raiders is deeply at odds with their fear of what is outside the vault. The latter makes sense, and the former should provoke at least a little of the latter.
I don't hate the show. It's really good with music and setting. It's just...plot and character keeps getting jumbled.
Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2024-04-29 at 02:49 PM.
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2024-04-29, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2022
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
SpoilerYeah. It is strange and makes no sense for that to be their reaction. What does make sense is if, in resopnse to them discovering "the truth", the overseers (or brain in Vault 31) decided to pump in some kind of "make everyone suicidal and crazy" gas into Vault 32, wipe them out, and then clean up, repopulate from Vault 31, and move on, with the secret/experiment intact.
What doesn't make sense is the timing of this (appears to have happened some time ago), no one seeming to have realized that they all died off and enacted any plan to deal with it, and then the raiders showing up (and them all just happening to be dead when they get there). I'm still holding out the possibility that this may be explained in season 2 though. There must have also been some reason why Moldaver used Rose's pipboy to enter Vault 32 instead of going directly to Vault 33. Heck. Why did her pipboy open Vault 32 in the first place? Rose was from Vault 33. She was married to the overseer of Vault 33. She escaped with her children from Valut 33. As far as we know (again, unless the history is even more faked then we were told), she never once stepped foot into Vault 32. We also know that the vaults are all sealed off from each other, requiring someone from "inside" each vault to allow someone to enter from a different one. One would expect/assume that the front doors, leading to outside, would be even better defended/blocked than the ones between the three vaults.
So yeah. Either a much bigger plot hole is present *or* there's some additional information about both the deaths of the folks in Vault 32 *and* Moldaver's entry to said Vault. I'm going to be optimistic and hope that gap is filled at some point.
SpoilerEh... I just chalk this up to the standard film/tv "dramatic representation of scarce things", where the super scarce thing, which the character should be ultra careful with, will instead be treated very uncarefully instead, to highlight the fact that it is scarce. We see this in every scene where the character is drinking from a canteen/waterskin and is short on water (and in the middle of a desert). Real people would carefully make sure to not lose a single drop. TV/Film characters will hold the container above their heads, tip them over, and spill the water all over/down their chins.
Yes. It's annoying. Yes. It makes me scream at the TV "why the heck are you doing that!", but... that's just the way they do things. The reality is that the effect of "lack of water" or "lack of ghoul drug" will be whatever the script says it will be, regardless of how the character is portrayed as handling it.
SpoilerAnd actually, on that subject, one of the bits that annoyed me more than a little, was the characters seeming lack of care about scarce things all the way though. Including weapons and ammunition. You'd think someone realizing they are in a post appocalyptic worlds with minimal and dwindling supplies of... well... everything, would be super careful and cautions with everything. Yet, despite a large number of bad guys killed along the way, most of them armed in some way, no one ever seems to pick up their weapons so they can use them. There are several points where this happens. Heck. Right off the bat, when Titus dies to the bear, he drops his big honking gun when the bear first attacks him. Ok. But then, after he dies, and Maximus takes the armor, Maximus.... leaves the gun? Why? That would certainly have come in super useful later on.
This happens so frequently in the series that it becomes laughable. And flies in the face of what any actual person playing the game would have done. You pick up *everything*, and you keep everything you can physically carry. The only time they kinda played this, was when Lucy leaves the super mart place (can't remember the name now), and she's clearly taken some items. But IMO, not nearly as much as she could have. She's still way under equipped for having an entire huge store full of stuff she could have taken with her. It felt like they wanted the characters to have specific conflicts and specific levels of difficulty in each, so they ensured that the characters had only the weapons/equipment that would make that next conflict work and nothing more. Even if it made zero sense.
Again though, I can overlook most of the oddities as being reflective of the setting itself being kind warped/crazy to start with. No one behaves quite like we might think people should, so that's just the way things are. Some of them were a bit over the top. But most? I can look past them.
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2024-04-29, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2023
Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
SpoilerNo real defense for anything else - characters do leave materials behind far too often - but wasn't the rifle crushed by the bear right at the start of the fight? I distinctly remember that being the reason Titus goes from "mildly panicked" to "eff this I'm out of here."
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2024-04-29, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
The ghoul drug was an invention of the show, as far as I know (I haven't played the Bethesda versions, so maybe it was introduced there, but I haven't heard of it). My guess is it was just introduced as a shorthand for the audience. Why do some ghouls go feral and others don't? In the game cannon, the answer is, "Nobody really knows." Maybe they felt TV audiences wouldn't accept that.
It also provided Cooper with a need, which can help offer motivations for some of the things the writers want him to do.
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2024-04-29, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I don't mind the idea that after 200 years someone figured out how to stave off the feral process. That's a pretty logical progression for the setting.
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2024-04-29, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-30, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I like the speculation that the serum was something developed by the NCR to help their ghoul citizens out. NCR was always depicted as accepting of ghouls and super mutants, so it makes sense for them, with their stable and (relatively) technologically advanced society to work on the problem of some of their citizens occassionally losing their minds and turning into ravening cannibals.
But my preferred option is that it's some snake oil (not to be confused with the goods offered by the completely reputable Snake Oil Salesman), that's actually just an addictive drug someone convinced ghouls to take, and the feelings they get when they're low aren't necessarily going feral, but instead just a nasty withdrawl.Last edited by Pax1138; 2024-04-30 at 07:48 AM.
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2024-04-30, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Yeah, this trope with water has always annoyed me. It's in so very many films, but it absolutely takes me out of the moment with how dumb it is. Greedily drinking water? Sure. Spilling it everywhere shouldn't be a thing that people do intentionally. Accidentally, because you're portraying a person so dehydrated that their fingers aren't working right or the like? Okay, sure. But that's not usually how it's portrayed. Ah, well.
SpoilerAnd actually, on that subject, one of the bits that annoyed me more than a little, was the characters seeming lack of care about scarce things all the way though. Including weapons and ammunition. You'd think someone realizing they are in a post appocalyptic worlds with minimal and dwindling supplies of... well... everything, would be super careful and cautions with everything. Yet, despite a large number of bad guys killed along the way, most of them armed in some way, no one ever seems to pick up their weapons so they can use them. There are several points where this happens. Heck. Right off the bat, when Titus dies to the bear, he drops his big honking gun when the bear first attacks him. Ok. But then, after he dies, and Maximus takes the armor, Maximus.... leaves the gun? Why? That would certainly have come in super useful later on.
This happens so frequently in the series that it becomes laughable. And flies in the face of what any actual person playing the game would have done. You pick up *everything*, and you keep everything you can physically carry. The only time they kinda played this, was when Lucy leaves the super mart place (can't remember the name now), and she's clearly taken some items. But IMO, not nearly as much as she could have. She's still way under equipped for having an entire huge store full of stuff she could have taken with her. It felt like they wanted the characters to have specific conflicts and specific levels of difficulty in each, so they ensured that the characters had only the weapons/equipment that would make that next conflict work and nothing more. Even if it made zero sense.
Again though, I can overlook most of the oddities as being reflective of the setting itself being kind warped/crazy to start with. No one behaves quite like we might think people should, so that's just the way things are. Some of them were a bit over the top. But most? I can look past them.
Given the portrayal, withdrawal happens in a matter of days, and as he is The Ghoul, who clearly has existed in roughly the same state for those entire 200 years, the drug'd basically need to be there when the bombs drop.
That could be a thing, I guess. Just...it implies a lot more intentionality to the setting than is normally the case. Ghouls are generally portrayed as a not particularly desired consequence of radiation, not as part of some grand plan.
Also, another aside:
Spoiler
Why is the dude surprised by there being a party, AND its at his house, and he doesn't know its happening until that very moment, when they are leaving to go to the party.
But then at the party, he is complaining that only one of the people he invited showed up. How exactly did he go about inviting all these people and when? This feels like a weird and pointless sort of incongruity. Maybe editing or reshoots happened, I dunno, but there's a lot of little nuggets that don't quite make sense.
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2024-04-30, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Doctor Barrows was working on something like that in Fallout 3. He was trying to reverse it, but "keeps you from going feral" would be a big step forward.
The Spoose and I watched the first episode yesterday. I had to stop for a bit during Cooper Howard's opening... I played Fallout 4 with my then-newborn firstborn on my lap, and watching that opening with my 7 year old playing in the next room was pretty hard. But once I got past that, I really liked it; there was a lot of Fallout in there, and I also liked how they played up the religious aspect of the Brotherhood.The Cranky Gamer
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2024-04-30, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I thought Coop was intentionally spilling the water to mock Lucy.
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2024-04-30, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-30, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
Additionally, deliberately wasting a precious resource to mock someone has always read as an unhinged move to me. It can be appropriate for a given character, but it paints any character that does it as short sighted, reckless, deranged, or otherwise not someone focused on their own survival and making sane choices to accomplish that. It's an action that almost always pulls me out of of a story and see it as a lazy trope, rather than a deliberate bit of characterization.
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2024-04-30, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout on Prime post-release thread
I thought it was a reference to this scene:
Lip Balm?
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2024-04-30, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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