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2024-04-11, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- NJ (right next to philly)
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-04-11, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Serini CREATED an entire hill. We know that the rift was at the surface, and that the rocks of the ravine is magic "multidimensional stone" (thanks @Ruck for that callback), so it's likely the region was terraformed to build a hill on top of the Gate.
Also note that the other dungeons can be pretty much anywhere, since their entrance is a teleport spell. Which means that hill just has to contain "Backstage" and the Final Dungeon. (The Final Dungeon couls also be under another artificial hill, far from Kraagor's tomb, sure, since its entrance is also a Teleport spell, but I don't think so : Serini wouldn't want to have her homebase too far from the Gate she's guarding, just in case someone managed to find a way to bypass her deception.)
It also means that the Final Dungeon can't be too deep, since it has to be above the original ground level. It is inside the hill, not under the hill. But yeah, there is probably a healthy chunk of magicrock between the Gate and the surface.
Or we'll just see one panel of X and RC arriving somewhat singed to the Gateroom, with a "Well, that was annoying" comment, and that's all we'll ever see of "Team Evil's extraordinary adventures in the Final Dungeon of Doom".
We know Serini thinks her dungeon will just weaken and delay Xykon, but can't stop him.
If you look close, it looks like V has 2 "holes" in their chest. And the polar ray looked like it hurt when V tanked it.
V still has these holes (along with a LOT of fire damage) on the current page. So maybe V just has that many hitpoints?Last edited by Kardwill; 2024-04-11 at 03:11 AM.
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2024-04-11, 03:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Why would Calder blasting a hole in the mountain that Team Evil can then walk through easily be a good story in the first place? That would be an instant death sentence to everyone in the world, literally; when the Order doesn't have a great chance of beating Xykon on his own even in ideal situations, how would making Team Evil with a nearly full tank of spells and the OotS at their weakest end well?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-04-11, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Europe
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
No, it would be 27 if Miron were as low level as Vaarsuvius. Miron is more likely higher level, likely low epic, so the dispel check only had like one in three chance to succeed.
I don't think so. Spells usually can't target items in someone else's inventory.
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2024-04-11, 03:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
"Vampires have LA +8 therefore the Vector Legion would have been low-epic" is... rather unconvincing if you ask me. I think it's more likely that they're each around CR 16~17ish, accounting for having player character-equivalent WBL in items.
I don't think so. Spells usually can't target items in someone else's inventory.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-04-11, 03:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
This encounter is looking good now, the problem is how unexpectedly it has costed the Order a lot of resources. Both mechanical (high level spell slots) and narrative (Bloodfeast). Any potential advantage over Team Evil is lost now.
On the other hand, and I believe Elan would agree, I can't see two consecutive epic battles happening, pacing should go down for at least 20 strips before major action comes. But this comic has always been unpredictable, so who knows.
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2024-04-11, 04:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
... That's a good point, actually. Dungeon sightseeing is nice, but it was mostly a setup for the Calder encounter, so I doubt we'll see much more of it. Something else will probably happen between this fight and the X+RC showdown, and I doubt it will just be planning and downtime (since those have already been front and center in the strips just before the Dungeon Delve).
Last edited by Kardwill; 2024-04-11 at 04:17 AM.
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2024-04-11, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
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2024-04-11, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Europe
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
I wasn't thinking of the level adjustment for vampires. It's more that they are much more wealthy than the Order, with access to more varied magic items. They are also ruling half of a continent, with armies answering them, including a private division for Tarquin specifically trained for ominous plot-critical reveals. They definitely seem to be more powerful than the Order, so I presume they're higher level.
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2024-04-11, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
A couple of people have commented that Calder is finished, but I think he's improved his position in the last round. Sure, he failed to dispose of Bloodfeast, but he has got rid of the Beholder (for the moment at least), and got another dragon breath off on the party without taking any damage himself. He's had three breaths on them now, so some must be close to death by now (the fact that none have died is pretty good evidence that Calder isn't as powerful of a dragon as people thought IMO).
Also, this fight has gone some time now, and Serini hasn;t participated at all. I wonder if none of her attacks can hurt Calder, or if there is some other reason why she's not doing anything.
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2024-04-11, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
I dunno. "Secretly ruling half a continent" kinda fits with a lvl 15-20 evil party, I think.
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2024-04-11, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
If it was one of my tables, she would be suffering from "NPC syndrome" (the powerful NPCs do their own thing, so that the PCs battle the main threat by themselves), but here, dunno.
She may simply be too old for that kind of direct fighting against a dragon. Her engagements against the paladins and against the order were surprise skirmish using any advantage she could muster, not "frontal epic rogue assault"
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2024-04-11, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2024-04-11, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Go, V!
Can we squeeze in a third transformation for Bloodfeast in this fight? It's very hype every time it happens.
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2024-04-11, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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- Terra Ephemera
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Calder just made a big mistake. The "little" snack wasn't anything of the sort, and his appetite is definitely at risk of getting spoiled.
I'm not an evil GM! Honest!
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2024-04-11, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-04-11, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2024-04-11, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-04-11, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Louisville, KY
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
It's Belvaar. Don't ask me how I know that.
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2024-04-11, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2024-04-11, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
You just have to look at the dragon's eyes (which is usually a bad idea, in-story). No 'X's.
I don't think that V has any particular intention in that regard. It's a consequence, but not a goal.
It would be a very cartoony effect: a series of dragon-shaped holes through multiple walls/doors. I don't think Rich would go that route; it would undermine the tone of the comic.
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2024-04-11, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- New Zealand
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Will the greater dispel be permanent or only last until the spell expires?
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2024-04-11, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- Germany
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
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2024-04-11, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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2024-04-11, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2022
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah. It's not like you can get shorter than "V" or "V's".
Exactly. Based on the flashback, the original rift/gate was at surface level. That means that Serini had the entire hill and hollow built specifically as the defenses around the gate. The gateroom itself therefore, should be some hundred or so feet from any surface. The rest of the Final Dungeon complex can be pretty much anywhere in relation to things, but it seems like if you were building such a defense, and wanted to make sure that the only possible way to get there was via the "explore every dungeon and open the magic portal", you would take great pains to ensure that no part of the Final Dungeonn is anywhere close to any part of any other dungeon (or the surface).
Oh! Good call on the other dungeons too. Given the swapovers, they could actually be anywhere. Presumably somewhat close, but technicalliy do not need to actually be in the hollow itself, or even within multidimensional stone. It doesn't matter if folks can magic their way in/out of them, really, since the trap still has to be spung on each, and it's not like ghostforming around for miles in the area looking for random dungeons to enter is actually faster than just opening a door and going in.
So yeah. Likely that only backstage and the Final Dungeon are actually physically located right there in the Hollow itself. And that thing is huge. Plenty of room for backstage and a very large Final Dungeon, while still maintaining significant amounts of physical stone/earth between each.
Yup. That's an equal possiblity. Narratively, the author has shown us the defenses, so we don't really need to see them in operation. It's enough to say "there's a ton of traps the bad guys will have to get through", and then cut to the scene where a damaged/weakened TE arrives in the gateroom. The traps will have done their job of weakening TE and making it more of a fair fight (which is also the whole point).
Also a good catch. We know that sometimes healing potions heal clothing as well, so does that mean V hasn't healed the damage from the polar ray yet? Or has, and Rich is leaving the holes in V's clothes? Or maybe V has just partially healed the damage?
Dunno. I think that either there was a really really bad damage roll on that polar ray, or V has some protection/resistance we weren't told about, or there was a potion/heal use off panel that we didn't see. While there was presumably time between the polar ray hit and the antimagic field hit for V to have been healed somewhat, V seemed to be busy that whole time (V casts cone of cold, calder polar ray's and then breathes, then V casts lighting, then is hit with anti-magic), and isn't heal a ranged touch spell? V's up in the air the whole time too.
Eh... Got lucky with the damage dice?
Yeah. I'm not sure what the storytelling point of "And TE gets there faster than expected and without taking damage or expending resources". I do, however, get the whole "We don't need to see the details of TE dealing with the traps", but there are better/easier ways to deal with that.
Sure. But he's been taking steady damage the whole time. While Roy's sword missed, Belkar got another stab in, and Haley got in two arrow hits, just this round. His "position" is still "on the ground, dealing with a large dinosaur that can keep me from flying up, so I'm vulnerable to melee attacks". And yeah, I full expect the paladins to show up in the next strip or two.
Bloodfeast, on the other hand, could use a heal.
Yeah. She's pretty much been standing around the whole time. She does have ranged attacks, and some damage is better than none, so.... yeah. Not sure what she's doing. Hopefully, we'll see something from her coming up as well.
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2024-04-11, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Colorado
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
I'm guessing we'll see a story arc of Team Evil making their way through part of Serini's funhouse, with the point being MitD character growth; he will be given a few lessons in how Xykon and Redcloak really don't care if he gets hurt / suffers pain as they use him for Barbarian Trap Clearing - "walk straight down this corridor and trigger all the traps". Grayview will have some sardonic observations about that being just how life is, and Oona may offer some comments on how MitD's monster type has certain immunities or resistances, which will get the MitD identifier crowd all in a tizzy.
What we'll learn is that TE is making their way through, slowly, and that MitD is being slowly prepped to switch sides at a suitably dramatic moment, probably the final battle.
If the final battle is to take place at the final gate, at some point TE has to realize they are being tricked.This ... is my signature finishing move!
"It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady
According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
http://easydamus.com/character.html
I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)
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2024-04-11, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Hmmm....
Does Dispel work on dead creatures? Cuz if yes ... I think V jumped the gun here.
I mean, I love Bloodfeast the Exterminator and would weep hot tears if he died ... but if they had allowed Calder to chew up Bloodfeast the salamander, swallow him, end up in Calder's GI tract ... and then V cast Dispel ... what are the D&D rules for damage inflicted by a giant dinosaur materializing inside your stomach? Is that survivable?
This sounds like a fascinating method of covert assassination. Polymorph a dinosaur into a delicious chicken, roast for an hour and 15 minutes on medium, serve it to a paranoid emperor. And then later that night, when the emperor walks through the anti-magic gate to his private chambers - chunks of Diplodocus explode out of his belly like a can full of springs.
Or ... would the Polymorph Dispel still work post-digestion? When the constituent nutrients of dinosaur have been broken down and distributed all throughout your hated enemy's body, stored in their fat cells and muscle tissue and bones and organs - and then with one Dispel, all the molecules return to their original size and composition ...
Long story short: Hank Pym should be the most dangerous man in the cosmos.Last edited by skim172; 2024-04-11 at 01:27 PM.
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2024-04-11, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
One of the great romances of all time, as I noted earlier.
(I just wish we had an emoji for a devilish grin…)
Edit, because now I'm feeling truly evil: And now I belatedly wonder where Durkon sits in Belkar's proto-brain, after the vampire arc. (Though I wouldn't be a tiny bit surprised if someone has wondered this before me, considering Durkon was the one who V explained this theory to.) At least Hilgya can have the comfort of knowing Durkon is now caught in a three-way 'ship?Last edited by arimareiji; 2024-04-11 at 01:55 PM.
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2024-04-11, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Colorado
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
So, possible happy ending for Belkar - his body is ruined, and V polymorphs him into something that's a construct. He no longer breathes, but he's still around, and maybe V chooses a construct that is the appropriate sex for V and Belkar to live happily ever after.
This ... is my signature finishing move!
"It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady
According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
http://easydamus.com/character.html
I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)
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2024-04-11, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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Re: OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread
Belkar's greatest moment of character growth will be his evolution from a proto-brain to a pseudo-brain, one that can register a third category for people:
Grudging, Sarcastic, Dragged-Kicking-And-Screaming Quasi-Respect