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2024-02-06, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Biggest surprise when you read the book...
What was the biggest surprise you've encountered when you read the original book/short story/whatever of a movie, TV show or franchise, and why?
Or, phrased differently, because I want to focus on positive surprises...
You like a visual media presentation of a story. You also like the source written presentation of the story. There is a major difference between the two. What is it, and why do you like it?
For me: James Bond.
I've recently decided to read the paperbacks that spawned what might be the first huge movie franchise, and I was very, very (and pleasantly) surprised.
I liked the films well enough, though my preferred list of actors would probably rankle hard-core JB movie fans. Then on a whim picked up a 60s-era version of Casino Royale (along with several others, and read away. Then I couldn't stop reading them. Fast paced, well structured, "serious" fun, and without the things troped about the films. Details?
Spoiler: Why I was pleasantly surprisedBook Bond is competent, but fallible. Book Bond needs to be rescued once in a while. And not from cheese-laden deathtraps where the Evil Genius explains his plan and walks away.
Book Bond is smooth, attractive and plays well with "the ladies", but isn't Ladies Man. Movie Bond regular says "I seduce her with my +20 Diplomacy skill"
Book Bond is presented as much more egalitarian than I expected given the era of the books. There is plenty of the casual expression of what you would expect from 60s-era men's literature, but not nearly to the level I would have expected...and Bond is regularly more progressive in his views.
Book Bond is John McClane before Bruce Willis was out of primary school. He takes his lumps, he wins fights by being slightly less beaten.
Book Bond doesn't like the wet-side of his job, and loathes assassination.
All in all, a pretty stand up guy. I understand why the films went a different direction, and I like them a little more now.
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2024-02-06, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I had a different take on Book-Bond.
SpoilerHe spends a lot of the books as a bumbling drunk stumbling through the story until somebody (the Bond Girl, in more than a few cases) telling him who to shoot.
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2024-02-07, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Uh, what? For most of the Bond books, that description's wrong on pretty much every level.
Let's take Casino Royale, which is the first, and the one that set the model for all the others:
Spoiler• Casino Royale Bond isn't a drunk. He likes his drinks, but I don't think he ever actually gets drunk. When he goes out for confrontations, he's extremely clear and focused.
• He's not bumbling. He's given a very difficult mission (out-gamble and bankrupt Le Chiffre) and succeeds. He does get his cover blown from the start, but that isn't his fault – unknown to him (and to the readers) he'd been assigned a double agent as a partner, which actually makes it pretty impressive that he succeeds at all.
• He doesn't solve the problem by shooting anyone. Actually, I don't think he fires his gun even once in the whole book.
• He does get captured and horribly tortured, but again, this is because his partner's a double agent. He gets saved by pure luck, but by that point, he'd already accomplished what he was set to do – he didn't give up the location of the money under torture, meaning that Le Chiffre was already a dead man walking. If he'd died there, M would have considered the mission a success.I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2024-02-07, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I usually read the book version first, but basically any 'classic' story.
Sherlock Holmes is a lot more personable in the books (granted I've only read a couple of them) and he's not nearly as insufferable, just wired differently where he can't function without stimulus, which comes with downsides.
Lovecraft's work isn't as nihilistic as its reputation, you can usually defeat the evil mage (typically by beating him at his own game). Charles Dexter Ward is some of the best horror writing I've ever seen.
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2024-02-07, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I concur with Saph. By today's standards, he drinks and smokes an incredible amount and would be viewed as alcoholic and addict. That day is not today, however. Comparing it by standards of the day (or at least the 10+ years later when I was alive and aware of things besides my toes and fingers fitting in my mouth), it would have been commonplace. There are a couple of points, as I recall, where it is a plot point as he over-drinks to salve trauma...and it is pointed out as such and corrected. Pretty darn progressive for that era.
I worry that I didn't present the question properly. What about instances in where there was a significant change, regardless of which you experienced first (written or visual), and you really liked both?
Aside: Waiting eagerly for good visual Lovecraft. There's been some decent if you squint and give huge credit for them making do with a shoestring budget, and frankly I liked the "Howard Lovecraft and the" films (Frozen Kingdom, Kingdom of Madness, Undersea Kingdom), but I still want something that I love. And no, Nicholas Cage will never be appropriate.
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2024-02-07, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Probably reading the original Jungle Book many years after having seen the Disney animation.
Kaa is one if the good guys (and a staunch ally to Mowgli)? Hathi is an old, wise elephant rather than a delusional hen-pecked muppet (Oh, and there's no wife or child)? Baloo is a teacher of the Jungle Law, rather than a goofing drifter? Mother Wolf is badass enough to make Shere Khan back down? Mowgli actually had a brain in his head?
I mean, don't get me wrong here - I love the old film, and it is a true classic, but a good adaptation of the source material it isn't.Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
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2024-02-08, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Gulliver's Travels is very much dark and depressing
Oz is a real place and it's literally an isekai story
The victim of "Death on the Nile" is just misunderstood.
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2024-02-08, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I second Sherlock Holmes' character being often misrepresented. Also, he doesnt hold much respect for the police; which he sees as more interested in "catching a criminal" than actually solving crime.
Lestrade was actually a somewhat competent detective rather than a bumbling Chief.
The Hound found peace and content serving a religious community.
Hmm... Victor Frankenstein is supposed to be an egotist, selfish, and cowardly intellectual who ran away from the consequences of his action and happily throw everyone under the bus to take the blame. He's not "misunderstood". He wasn't a "mad scientist" either. Hes just a coward.
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2024-02-08, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Victor Frankenstein isn't even a Doctor, he never finished his studies.
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2024-02-08, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-08, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
This is one of the situations where it was a big surprise and I didn't like both depictions...the Creature in the book is so very very much better. Frankenstein is a tragedy, not a horror piece, and while Victor has some very moving speeches/lines in the book...the films (excepting Young Frankenstein) were always very "meh" for me. The book, I love.
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2024-02-08, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Totally agree, while I knew the pop culture image of Frankenstein isn't exactly accurate, I was still surprised when I read the book (it also led to me and a classmate doing one of the weirder interpretation of school assignment I've been a part of, basically creating a short comic book version of Frankenstein in some sort of Soviet-esque cyberpunk world full of bad in-jokes).
That said, with the exception of the aforementioned Young Frankenstein, I don't think I've ever actually seen a Frankenstein movie, whether faithful to the book or not.Last edited by Batcathat; 2024-02-08 at 03:14 PM.
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2024-02-08, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
While all of this is true... Frankenstein sure as hell did not happily throw everyone under the bus. He in fact suffered to the extreme when he grew cold feet at the last minute and ruined Adam's potential partner- for understandable reasons, but reasons that got pretty much everyone he loved killed. He fully accepts this blame, severely, to the point of nearly getting sick to death from it.
Meanwhile to answer the question; reading through Dracula after I thought I knew everything about it. I'm shocked by basically any adaptation that does not recognize how cool and good a character Mina is now.
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2024-02-09, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Only cause there's likely never going to be another book so we'll never know if they were supposed to all get butchered later, leaving the Hound the sole survivor to draw him back into things.
I suspect that likely will be his happy ending due to the as mentioned perpetual lack of Winds of Winter, but I suspect it wasn't the intended one given Martins' usual style.
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2024-02-09, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
And I thought, with the previous paragraphs on Sherlock Holmes, this was a reference to the Hound of the Baskervilles, or at least to the dog that was standing in for that spectral canine. (But now that I look up the details of that story, that wouldn't have been possible.)
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2024-02-09, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
The lead codpieces to prevent nuclear mutant children was really a tone-setter, and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is pretty much this thread at every step.
Mostly I'm upset by the lack of very large men carrying doves for dramatic reasons.Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
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2024-02-09, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Most of Phillip K. ****'s stories fit this thread (put his full name in there, cause... er... filters gone wild!)
It's hard for me to think of very many that fit, because in most cases I read the book before watching the film (or before the film was made in many cases). I suppose Dune fits. I did *start to read* the book before the film came out. Not sure why, but I just couldn't get past the first 50 pages or so (it's really reallly slow at the start). Years later, the film came out, and then sometime after that, I decided to try reading the book. Yeah. Huge difference. I get why Lynch did what he did with that film (and it's quite memorable for its own reasons), but... yeah.
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2024-02-09, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Last edited by Bohandas; 2024-02-09 at 01:40 PM.
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2024-02-09, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Yeah. Original Kaa in particular is magnificent, albeit very not child-friendly. (I mostly just feel like Disney shouldn't have kept trying to adapt serious works for whatever target audience they had in mind with their stuff. I'm pretty sure I've ranted on-site about how much I hate their Hunchback (and I'm not even talking about the sequel here).)
SO yes. Most adaptations of Dracula are at the very least very strictly inferior to the original if not aggressively bad (most are aggressively bad) and Mina (alongside Renfield, but he kinda deserves it for killing birdies) is one of the characters who's done dirty the most (the idiotic reincarnation romance thing they keep slapping on her is just insult to injury).
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2024-02-09, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I blame the original Ravenloft module, and Ireena/Tatyana. That's not the actual reason, but I like to tie it to that, regardless.
As far as I know, that came about due to an early 70s TV version, made by the same person who made Dark Shadows and starring Jack Palance. IIRC, that was a plot point for Barnabas in Dark Shadows, and he reused it in the Dracula movie.Campaigning in my home brewed world for the since spring of 2020 - started a campaign journal to keep track of what is going on a few levels in. It starts here: https://www.worldanvil.com/w/the-ter...report-article
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2024-02-09, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-09, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-09, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2024-02-09, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
The only thing wilder than autistic queen Mina solving vampire problems in a way I don't think I've seen EVER happen in any vampire media before, is the fact that Renfield is... even if he has weird murder ideas, a character who completely and genuinely tries to save the day. Like, I get characterizing him as a villain, but he dies trying to help our heroes and seems to genuinely want to be better, but Dracula's just infesting his brain. Justice for Renfield.
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2024-02-10, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2024-02-10, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
The treble whammy of pain that was Hunchback, Pocahontas, and Hercules killed Disney for me when I was younger. Quite annoying really as it meant I didn't see the much better Mulan or the genuinely excellent Emperor's New Groove until significantly later.
Hunchback and Pocahontas at least have a decent song in Hellfire and Savages so that's something I guess. I'm tempted to say Pocahontas is the least worst as even with the dodgy historical stuff it hasn't got anything near as absolutely blood boilingly irritating as those dang gargoyles.Last edited by Trixie_One; 2024-02-10 at 08:51 AM.
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2024-02-11, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Yeah, no. 2 sounds like the Original Bug, but these all sound about surprisingly right. (That's not to say I don't want to bash in the heads of those responsible any less now, but still.)
Her insane computing power alone should earn her more respect than she ever seems to get.
is the fact that Renfield is... even if he has weird murder ideas, a character who completely and genuinely tries to save the day. Like, I get characterizing him as a villain, but he dies trying to help our heroes and seems to genuinely want to be better, but Dracula's just infesting his brain. Justice for Renfield.Very far from the idiotic willing bootlicker accomplice he keeps getting portrayed as.Spoiler: Dracula!The Count has to basically bribe him to get through the first time; he manages to put on a display of impeccable sanity that flabbergasts his doctors just to sabotage the backdoor by getting out; and Ihe freaking goes toe-to-toe with a vampire in an actual wrestling match when all else fails.
"Let's make it dark, simplisticly and heavy-handedly preachy and then add in silly song-dance numbers and multiple Jar Jars! That will sure increase its appeal across the board!"
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2024-02-11, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Oh right.
Frollo was actually a deluded fool in the book, and has nothing to do with the breaching of Notre Dame's sanctuary that leads to Esmeralda's death.
Phoebus is actually a coward ******* who gets away looking like a hero to his fiance for getting stabbed by ruffians, and abandons Esmeralda in her final moment of need.
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2024-02-11, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
Heck,
Spoiler: Hugohe (alongside Gringoire) tries to actually rescue her when the excrement hits the fan, if for all the wrong reasons (and even though it goes just as wrong as everything he tries to achieve ever).
Phoebus is actually a coward ******* who gets away looking like a hero to his fiance for getting stabbed by ruffians, and abandons Esmeralda in her final moment of need.
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2024-02-11, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Biggest surprise when you read the book...
I just want to know who possibly thought Hunchback was good material for a children's movie.
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