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2023-01-02, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
It says you get energy resistance 10 then it says that the total resistance is 15. It doesn't stay it stacks or that you get energy resistance 15 just that it is 15. So if you apply specific trump general to it you do get energy resistance 15 which is fine in a vacuum and a valid way to apply the spell.
How it then applies to other instances of energy resistance could still be considered dysfunctional however since you overwrote/bypassed the rules that govern it.
Of course you can just say it gives resistance 15 with no issues but that's not a case of specific trumps general.
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2023-01-03, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
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2023-01-03, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Yes exactly. Your resistance is 15 when raging with the feats and that's great until you have resistance 30 or something.
That's if you use specific trumps general (or are you using an "obtuse reading" of what that means?) over the stacking rules. If you rule that it gives resistance 15 like the brackets says and not resistance 10 then it doesn't have that problem but isn't specific trumps general.
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2023-01-04, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
i just think the simplest solution is the correct one. the feat says you have 15 and says its 10 + the 5 from the prereq feat (tho says so indirectly, its still clear) and since it says you have 15 with these you do. obviously if you had a magic ring that gives 30 it would overlap not stack since it would use the general rule, and someone would be much less inclined to was resources on getting something like that if they already have resistance from those feats.
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2023-01-07, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Widowmaker (Large vermin):
Originally Posted by DotU, p. 143
Originally Posted by PHB, p. 74If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
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Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2023-01-07, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
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2023-01-07, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2023-01-09, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I can't help but notice that animate dead and most other spells that create undead have the [Evil] descriptor...
But the Fell Animate metamagic feat, on the other hand, has no prerequisite. Meaning even a good divine caster barred from casting Evil spells by his faith can still animate zombies this way.
The rules really should be more consistent on whether creating undead is an evil act or not.Last edited by St Fan; 2023-01-09 at 06:04 PM.
Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
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2023-01-09, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Last edited by Bucky; 2023-01-09 at 06:55 PM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
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2023-01-09, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
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2023-01-12, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Either this spell is dysfunctional, or there's something I don't get...
Originally Posted by Complete Mage
And if the subject is not lying, then the subject makes no roll with the Bluff skill... so how can you tell then that the Sense Motive check was a "failure"? Again, usually, a character who rolled high on Sense Motive versus someone not lying can tell himself "Either he's honest, or he's a very good liar...", or just conclude he can't tell either way if the Sense Motive check was low.
Besides, this is supposed to be a negative spell, but what is stopping the silent type (who otherwise leave the speaking to others) who specialize in using feint in combat to receive the spell and inflict a big penalty against anybody trying to see through the feint?Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
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2023-01-12, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I saw somewhere (maybe PHB 3.0 ?) Sense Motive DC 20 to understand that you are being told the truth.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2023-01-12, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
If there is a rule like loky1109 describes, then the spell works.
If there's not, then the Sense Motive skill by itself is dysfunctional, even without this spell.
Scenario: NPC is telling you something, and is in fact honest.
PC: "Do I think he's telling the truth?" <rolls Sense Motive, gets a high result>
DM: "Yeah, you think he's telling the truth."
This certainly seems like something that should be possible, but how?
Anyway, however that works, it's less likely to, with the False Lie spell.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2023-01-12, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The "Hunch" function of Sense Motive lets you "get the feeling that someone is trustworthy. " Is that what you were thinking of?
In any event, false lie would make it harder for someone to use that feature to get a feel for the subject, which I suppose could make people less willing to trust the subject. It's definitely a bad spell, in no small part because it's useful for feinting than for social shenanigans, but I don't think it's dysfunctional.I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2023-01-19, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Pathfinder's Ultimate Equipment has parade armor, which gives +3 AC. The details of parade armor differ by country, but the example parade armor includes a chain shirt.
The chain shirt would give +4 AC by itself, and it's four times as expensive as the list price of the parade armor, so the example parade armor gets more protective and expensive if you ditch the helmet etc.
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Pathfinder's Elysiokineticist archetype adds Heal to its class skills, but all kineticists have Heal as a class skill anyway.Last edited by Bucky; 2023-01-20 at 10:56 AM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
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2023-01-20, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I think that just means that the chain shirt that's part of a suit of parade armor isn't a full piece of armor by itself, just a piece of a normal chain shirt. Like, maybe it's the infamous chainmail bikini.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2023-01-20, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Yeah, that scans. I've seen illustrations & panapoly that I'd totally believe would be more protective if you ditched a few pieces. Mostly because the helms or some other bit looks good, but is really too heavy & restrictive for real combat. Better than nothing but take off the helmet so you can see, hear, turn your head, and raise your arms over your shoulders.
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2023-01-20, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The chain shirt is also heavier, and more restrictive by Armor Check Penalty.
Last edited by Bucky; 2023-01-20 at 09:59 PM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
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2023-06-08, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I haven't read through the entire thread in a while but I don't think this is covered: Geas doesn't work. Or rather, it works, but it works simultaneously in two different ways due to confused developer intent.
Let's begin with Lesser Geas. I'll bold the relevant phrases.
Originally Posted by Geas, Lesser
Now, let's look at Geas, proper. First of all, it inherits Lesser Geas's function:
Originally Posted by Geas
Originally Posted by Geas
You can resolve this two ways:
- Geas's wording overrides Lesser Geas's wording. The creature is no longer compelled to follow the quest you've given them, they are instead only punished if they don't.
- Geas says it's "like lesser, except" and doesn't explicitly override the compulsion, so you're still compelled to attempt it, meaning that unlike lesser Geas, Geas has no RAW way for anybody to invoke its penalties. And those penalties explicitly override the ones applied by Lesser Geas.
Obviously, both of these readings are nonsense, but I think the first one is closer to making sense. When combined with the fact that the penalties are notably weaker (10 damage/day instead of a stacking -2 to every score), Geas appears to be a strictly worse effect, albeit one that's much more reliable to apply.Last edited by bekeleven; 2023-06-09 at 02:01 PM.
Tome of the Holy Grail: Draw power from legendary heroes.|The Dashing Dualist: Two weapons. One happy ending.|The Shifter: Be all that you can be.|The Professional: Mundanes, competent.|The Wuxia Fighter: Mundanes, Wacky.|The Generalist: Do literally everything.
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2023-06-09, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Nice find!
To my reading, (2) is the only possible meaning under a literal interpretation of RAW: In general, the subject cannot "not attempt" to carry out the Geas, and therefore cannot take any penalties. (It's not obvious whether this is better or worse for the caster, who might prefer for the subject not to be penalized, to make them better at attempting the task.)
However, this doesn't mean it's technically impossible by RAW:
Originally Posted by Multiple Mental Control Effects
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2023-06-10, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Since the thread is active again anyway, here's another one: The Bone Bow (Frostburn pg. 75) is an exotic weapon, but includes the text
A character may use a bone bow as a martial weapon, but doing so imparts a -4 penalty on attack rolls, and firing an arrow from the bow requires a full-round action
A character who uses a weapon with which he or she is not proficient takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2023-07-09, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I don't think I've seen this anywhere: Rings of Shared Suffering are found in the Eberron Campaign Setting. They're a Dragonmark Focus item that lets a sentinel-marked Deneith house member apply shield other on the person wearing the other ring, with unlimited range and duration, at will. On top of that, they give you DR against the incoming damage from the spell: 1/-, 2/-, 3/- or 5/-, depending on the strength of your mark.
The dysfunction: shield other is a spell that causes untyped damage without an attack role. DR doesn't work on it for like, four different reasons.
RAI is clear (reduce n from each instance of incoming damage) but RAW is completely dysfunctional.Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
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2023-08-21, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The Half-Elf Bard substitution levels include this feature:
Originally Posted by Races of Destiny
PS: And now, just reading the handbook, I see it was already mentioned. I should have realized the previous threads covered lots of ground.Last edited by St Fan; 2023-08-21 at 08:48 AM.
Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
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2023-08-21, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2023-08-21 at 08:29 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2023-08-21, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I was just having a look at Detect Good, which states:
This spell functions like detect evil, except that it detects the auras of good creatures, clerics or paladins of good deities, good spells, and good magic items, and you are vulnerable to an overwhelming good aura if you are evil. Healing potions, antidotes, and similar beneficial items are not good.
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2024-01-25, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Metamagic Mod: thread re-opened
(Avatar by Cuthalion, who is great.)
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2024-01-25, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The People’s Champion PrC:
Supreme Cleave: At 3rd level, the people’s champion receives this feat for free.
There are Supreme Cleave class features - Frenzied Berserker 2, Knight Protector 3, and Master Samurai 2 (and Supreme Cleave of Frenzied Berserker is more restrictive, since it specifies: "She is still limited to one such adjustment per round, so she cannot use this ability during a round in which she has already taken a 5-foot step" - which is not the case for the other two)
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2024-01-25, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Frostburn mentions the Icebergs and Snow domains in its deity table on page 42: neither exists.
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2024-01-27, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I assume everybody knows the kerfluffle with warlocks and metamagics, but to recap: The text of all metamagic feats explicitly require casting spells, but there's a paragraph in the start of the chapter saying "Obviously, since the sudden metamagic feats don't modify spell slots, warlocks can benefit from them." meanwhile the benefit is "you can cast a spell better."
One paragraph before that note is the one about weaponlike spells feats. I posted in a different thread about the issues with weapon focus and weaponlike spells. the short version is that paragraph makes equally little sense, or even less, as it might manage to randomly break how sorcerers and wizards work.
Just today I've been looking at the Techsmith class from Faiths and Pantheons (I know 3.0 is easy pickings for this thread). At first I just wanted to figure out whether your Gondsman - a familiar-like construct you get as a class feature - can speak, and if so, what languages.* But from that, and a bizarre typo where at least half of a sentence is just missing mid-paragraph, more problems arose. Among them:
- The Gondsman states that it has "hit dice equal to the techsmith's class level + 3." Almost immediately after it says "as the techsmith gains a level, the gondsman also increases its abilities by gaining a hit die." It feels like this class was written not thinking about the fact that characters can be multiclass - which is wild since it's a prestige class you're meant to enter after level six (requires 9 skill points). So even if "I dip this class and then progressing my build elsewhere" wasn't on their mind or was seen as explitative, "I finish the 10th level in the class" is still part of the assumed progression!
- The Techsmith can grant their gondsman +1 "base attack bonus" on levelup, in addition to its BAB from HD (which it explicitly gains), meaning you can pump it over +20 - Less notable in 3.0, just weird in a book with no errata.
- "Since constructs are creatures, cure spells affect [the Gondsman] normally." I checked, and yes, Cure spells in 3.0 also referred to laying your hands on a living creature.
*The text mentions you can communicate with it telepathically over a distance but doesn't cover what, if any, communication modes it has. It's intelligent and could in theory know/learn one or more languages. The answer is: really unclear, ask your DM, but conservatively assume no.Last edited by bekeleven; 2024-01-27 at 07:57 PM.
Tome of the Holy Grail: Draw power from legendary heroes.|The Dashing Dualist: Two weapons. One happy ending.|The Shifter: Be all that you can be.|The Professional: Mundanes, competent.|The Wuxia Fighter: Mundanes, Wacky.|The Generalist: Do literally everything.
Skill Trick Compendium|Cantrips for Days|Complete Control Revamped: Customize everything.|Bek's Book of Blissful Bewitchment: Who wants to spend their life in a musty cave?
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2024-01-28, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The Gondsman states that it has "hit dice equal to the techsmith's class level + 3." Almost immediately after it says "as the techsmith gains a level, the gondsman also increases its abilities by gaining a hit die."
And it being possible for the Gondsman to have higher BAB than its HD is certainly unusual, but it's also the clear effect, here. And even in 3.5, having BAB greater than 20 is possible for monsters. Also not a dysfunction.
The only dysfunction here is the one about cure spells.
Oh, and there's also a rule that anything with an Int of 3 or more understands at least one language, so the Gondsman would, too. The only question is which language. The most likely candidates would be Common, the techsmith's primary language, or one language the techsmith knows of their choice (which might all be the same thing).Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics