Results 31 to 60 of 207
-
2022-07-11, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Let's talk about hugging fire elementals in 3.5.
If you hit a fire elemental with an unarmed attack, you need to save against being set on fire.
If a fire elemental hits you with its natural weapon, you need to save against being set on fire.
If a fire elemental grapples you, that isn't its natural weapon so there is no risk of being set on fire.
If you have been grappled by a fire elemental while unarmed, you can attempt opposed grapple checks to do many things. These aren't attacks, not even the one that does the damage of an unarmed strike, so they won't set you on fire.
Similarly, the fire elemental's own grapple checks won't set you on fire.
In short, hugging or wrestling with fire elementals is unreasonably safe.The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2022-07-11, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
-
2022-07-11, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Grapple is defined as Special Attack. Thus, the fire elemental works as it should work by common sense. No dysfunction here imho.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-11, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2022-07-11, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Burn (Ex)
A fire elemental’s slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the elemental’s flaming body. Those hit by a fire elemental’s slam attack also must succeed on a Reflex save or catch on fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds. The save DC varies with the elemental’s size (see table). A burning creature can take a move action to put out the flame. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Creatures hitting a fire elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the elemental’s attack, and also catch on fire unless they succeed on a Reflex save.
Unarmed Attacks != Unarmed Strike
Unarmed Attacks = Unarmed Strike; Grapple;...
edit: and while the elemental does not burn an enemy for "grappling" it itself, it will use its slam attack, thus still apply his burn ability.Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2022-07-11 at 06:31 PM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-11, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Tula, Russia
- Gender
-
2022-07-11, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
That creates a new dysfunction without resolving the actual original dysfunction. The new dysfunction is that you take fire damage if you grapple the elemental, but not if it grapples you. And it still doesn't resolve the fact that physical contact with a fire elemental by default does not deal damage. Perhaps the specific example that was cited as evidence of the dysfunction may not be correct, but there are plenty of other cases where it still shows up.
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2022-07-12, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Why would that be a dysfunction?
I don't see any contradicting rule situation.
"Just because "magical fire" doesn't act like "normal fire" doesn't make it dysfunctional, that is the norm in 3.5
Sure; I get how you feel about this. But you should also keep in mind that especially monster abilities are often tailored towards a specific CR. And in the case of the Fire Elemental, the ability has to be in a similar CR range as the abilities the other elementals with the same CR get.
Maybe that is the intended reasoning behind it, who knows. (That giving the fire elemental a touchattack + fireshield ability would have been to strong).
But what I know is, that by RAW I see no dysfunction. The sole thing broke here is our "imagination of real life fire", but dunno if that should be the measuring tool here.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-12, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- Earth and/or not-Earth
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Where does it say that fire elementals are made of "magical fire"?
Also, you should probably go re-read the opening post, because "dysfunction" does not mean "contradicting rules situation". It seems to me that "fire elementals are made of fire that only sometimes burns things" is a perfect example of
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
-
2022-07-12, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
If that is your interpretation/definition of "dysfunctional", heck easily 50%+ of the spells and abilities are dysfunctional.
- Burning Hands? Your hands are on fire and you take no damage. Dysfunctional
- Flame Blade? You are holding a sword made of fire... also dysfunctional...
- why do form changing abilities only heal when you turn into something else and not also when you turn back? dysfunctional
Sorry but no. If you look at everything on a binary black or white basis, the logic behind this thread falls apart for me. You have to take the supernatural and magical aspects of 3.5 into your common sense logic, or almost anything becomes dysfunctional.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-12, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-12, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
As said, if that is the assumption here, most spells that don't harm the user/caster are dysfunctional. (like in the examples provided).
Same goes for things like First of Energy (Enlightened Fist) or Sacred Flames (Sacred Fist). Wrapping your hands (and feet) in energy/fire that doesn't harm you is also dysfunctional.
Flying/levitation is dysfuntional because of gravity, is this where we will end?
And where does the endless fuel come to keep the fire elemental's fire burning?
An elemental itself is dysfunctional according to that. What does the element keep in shape to form the elemental?
Sorry, but real life physics barely apply to 3.5 and shouldn't be taken as measurement if something is "functional" or "dysfunctional" imho.
It's one thing if something is "dysfunctional" (rules can't produce reliable results) or if it breaks "real life physics" (rules don't always work as in real life). The latter statement is one of the elementary things 3.5 is based on. Supernatural, magical or exceptional abilities that break real life physics.Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2022-07-12 at 09:03 PM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-13, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
As said, if that is the assumption here, most spells that don't harm the user/caster are dysfunctional. (like in the examples provided).
This isn't "real life physics" this is common sense.Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-13 at 03:48 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-13, 04:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Common sense in 3.5 is that often (not always) the user has some control over his abilities to not harm himself or his allies.
This is also true for the Fire Elemental's Burn ability. It has full control when grappling if it wants to burn his target with an Slam attack, or do a non Slam action and not burn his target (e.g. to grapple an ally for some reason).
Further if anyone uses any kind of grappling action against the fire elemental, they take damage.
For me, this is working as intended if I look at other "fire abilities" that work similar.
Just because the Fire Elemental has control over his Burn ability (since its tied to his Slam attack) in grapple doesn't make it dysfunctional imho.
Do you really think that F. Elementals should "double burn" their foes in a grapple?
Once for the initial grapple and then again for the Slam attack? Is that you expectation of normal here?Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2022-07-13 at 04:26 AM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-13, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
First, I don't agree with "elemental's full control". I can control myself, but I can't became liquid.
Further if anyone uses any kind of grappling action against the fire elemental, they take damage.
Just because the Fire Elemental has control over his Burn ability (since its tied to his Slam attack) in grapple doesn't make it dysfunctional imho.
Do you really think that F. Elementals should "double burn" their foes in a grapple?
Once for the initial grapple and then again for the Slam attack? Is that you expectation of normal here?If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-13, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Tula, Russia
- Gender
-
2022-07-13, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
"You" can control if you want to make an (unarmed strike) attack or to not make an attack.
The Fire Elemental can control/chose to use its Slam attack or not.
The Fire Elemental doesn't have a "touch attack" ability + fire shield. It has a Slam attack with a burn effect, that also works as kind of fire-shield against enemy attacks.
RAW, no.
I can repeat mine:
Creatures hitting a fire elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the elemental’s attack, and also catch on fire unless they succeed on a Reflex save.
"Unarmed Attack": the "Grapple" action is a Special "Attack" that is also made unarmed.
As such the following grapple actions cause you to "Burn" when you attack & hit a Fire Elemental:
Step 2: Grab. You make a melee touch attack to grab the target. If you fail to hit the target, the grapple attempt fails. If you succeed, proceed to Step 3.
Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks.
You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons
"Tied to Slam attack" isn't "having control". It literally opposite.
It looks normal. Better than harmless hugs. RAW I can pin elemental for long long time and get no damage.
Sure it can try to escape the "pin" which would leave you for that turn unharmed. But that fits my imagination. The F. Elemental is winding in the pin and tries to break free of the pin. It can chose to "Slam" and "Burn" or try to escape the "Pin".Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-13, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
F. elemental's body literally is fire. All body, not just his fists.
Attempt to start grapple burn you, yes, grapple itself don't (I don't have attack elemental, I can do damage via grapple check). Don't you see issue? Grabbing big humanoid shaped piece of fire is harmless. Striking this piece of fire isn't. Touching isn't, too.
And if elemental is pinned, he can't try to strike me, escape grapple is only thing he can try. Pinning elemental is harmless completely.
"The Fire Elemental doesn't have a "touch attack" ability + fire shield."
It should. Something like oozes' acid. This is disfunction.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-13, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2022-07-13, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
&
You both are falling trap to the "6 second round" vs "your 6 second turn" imagination.
In the chase that the grapple already started and you did chose not to escape the Fire Elemental's grapple.
1.) You are already taking damage in "this round" from a possible Slam attack
2.) If you just use non-hitting grapple action, you don't hit or make more contact than you already are.
3.) If you attempt to "hit" your enemy with your "grapple action", you take more damage, since you use brute force tactics instead of being smart.
I mean how often should a foe take Burn damage per "round" in grapple? If I follow your arguments I suppose something like up to 4 times?
a) when the F. elemental starts/holds the grapple
b) when the F. Elemental uses its Slam while grappling
c) when you start/hold the grapple (doesn't immediately try to escape)
d) when you attack the elemental unarmed or with natural weapons while grappling
(PS: those options I don't believe in are in RED)
So instead of 1-2 times Burn damage "per round" (my interpretation), you wanna have up to 4 times Burn damage so that it fits your imagination of real life fire. Because somehow you are able to count "how many times real life fire does damage to you." Sorry that I have a hard time believing that you are able to count the amounts of times you take fire damage during 6 seconds. Because that would be the "position" your argument is taking in here.
Is that really your intention here? Does the F. Elemental not enough times Burn dmg per round (in "my interpretation") to satisfy your feeling for realism of fire?Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2022-07-13 at 07:20 PM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-13, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
What if elemental missed? Or didn't use slam attack? Harmless hugs with fire?
I mean how often should a foe take Burn damage per "round" in grapple? If I follow your arguments I suppose something like up to 4 times?
So instead of 1-2 times Burn damage "per round" (my interpretation), you wanna have up to 4 times Burn damage so that it fits your imagination of real life fire. Because somehow you are able to count "how many times real life fire does damage to you."
b) when the F. Elemental uses its Slam while grappling
d) when you attack the elemental unarmed or with natural weapons while grappling
c) when you start/hold the grapple (doesn't immediately try to escape)
So I want 1-2 times Burn instead 0-1 per round. Or 1 instead 0 if I pin elemental.
Because somehow you are able to count "how many times real life fire does damage to you."
UPD:
c) when you start/hold the grapple (doesn't immediately try to escape)Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-13 at 07:42 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-13, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Haven't you ever seen how someone can move fast in fire without taking any damage? If you are fast enough and don't make long contact you can avoid taking fire damage to some degree. Which means that there need to be a certain amount of contact time for you to take dmg, depending on your speed/agility.
Further, you are assuming that all fire has to be hot and thus damaging.
Btw, did you know that we can produce cold fire (room temperature)? Or even cold enough to "freeze" stuff? (Freezing Fire YT video)
Thus there is no reason to assume that the F. Elemental's body is constantly damaging anything it "touches". As said, its not a touch attack. Sole the Slam attack is able to apply fire dmg to you. And in return, only if you "hit" the elemental unarmed/natural weapon, you accumulate enough fire heat (due to moving directly towards the source of the fire steam) to take damage.
Does this help you to explain what is going on?
Imho you try to forcefully apply real life physics with assumptions (that the fire is damaging all the time) that are not reflected by the rules. While imho there are options to explain the situation with real life physics.
Try to see it this way. In real life you can try to avoid taking fire dmg (minimizing dmg) or you can try to force your way out (taking the risk of more dmg to achieve a goal). Same can be said about the Burn ability. A foe can try to minimize the dmg in a grapple with an immediate escape attempt, or go brute force and remain in a grapple and risk taking more fire damage.
And if he is fast enough (escape the grapple on his first turn being grappled by the F. Elemental), he can avoid being Burned at all.
If he is so insane to pin the F. Elemental, he risks being burned by the Slam ability. The pinned F. Elemental has to chose to either use its Slam to build enough heat to burn you, or focus on escaping the pin.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-14, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
A foe can try to minimize the dmg in a grapple with an immediate escape attempt, or go brute force and remain in a grapple and risk taking more fire damage.
And if he is fast enough (escape the grapple on his first turn being grappled by the F. Elemental), he can avoid being Burned at all.
What "move fast" you are talking about? I talk you "I can harmless pin elemental for unlimited amount of time" you talk me about "escape the grapple on his first turn". What?
Btw, did you know that we can produce cold fire (room temperature)? Or even cold enough to "freeze" stuff? (Freezing Fire YT video)
And in return, only if you "hit" the elemental unarmed/natural weapon, you accumulate enough fire heat (due to moving directly towards the source of the fire steam) to take damage.
Thus there is no reason to assume that the F. Elemental's body is constantly damaging anything it "touches".
Does this help you to explain what is going on?
Imho you try to forcefully apply real life physics
that are not reflected by the rules
While imho there are options to explain the situation with real life physics.Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-14 at 05:41 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-14, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
According to your assumption the Fire Elemental has to start a successful grapple attempt and then lose all future rolls, because now magically "sole you win the grapple rolls" to pin him. The Fire Elemental sole tries to escape the pin and not to attack you. How convenient..
Do you really think it can be about Fire elemental? Fire elemental of room temperature?
If you move through fire quick (strike elemental) you take damage. If you slowly snuggle fire for a long time you don't.
How do you explain that the F. Elemental never tries to successfully use its Slam attack?
It managed to get a hold on you (for unarmed strike dmg), because you can't start a grapple without getting burned (due to the needed successful Touch Attack = unarmed attack). But as said, magically now sole you win the grapple rolls to pin it forever..
I disagree.
No.
Again no.
Yes, that's why this is Dysfunctional Rules.
Occam's razor isn't on your side. Your explanations are more complicated and less intuitive.
You are totally biased towards a specific outcome to forcefully come to the conclusion that the F Elemental is dysfunctional, without giving it a chance to have a legit explanation. That's not how Occam's razor works.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-15, 12:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
How do you explain that the F. Elemental never tries to successfully use its Slam attack?
wild assumptions (F. Elemental sole winning its initiating grapple roll and then constantly losing somehow and never wins again)
Doesn't matter who initiate grapple. Yes, it highly likely can be me, yes, I take Burn once. And what does it change? "Never wins" grapple is exaggeration, but even several round in row (say four) is enough to see issue.
And Occam's Razor should favor you?
Forever pin example is just example it shouldn't be something from real game. It isn't assumption it's thought experiment. My sole assumption is: "Fire Elemental should be constantly burning hot." against your: "Fire Elemental can be of room temperature."
UPD:
Do you have any indicator that proves otherwise?
Originally Posted by MM, p. 98Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-15 at 01:40 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-16, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Let's talk about something less controversial.
Serpent Kingdoms... I bless you...
Originally Posted by Yuan-Ti organiztion, House Eselemas, p. 11
Originally Posted by Prehensile Tail, p. 147
Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-16 at 03:04 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-16, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2020
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Not quite a standard dysfunction but seeing as I am who I am it’s worth bringing up that, after all these years, we still aren’t 100% sure how Sha’ir spell retrieval and subsequent spell vanishing works. I have a entire thread somewhere on this site dedicated to explaining how they’re debatably spontaneous casters. That’s definitely a bizarre take and not something I want to launch into a debate about here but just the fact that a Sha’ir can be argued to function as a spontaneous caster, prepared caster, both, or neither is worth bringing up.
Native Sha'ir enthusiast. NO GENIE WARLOCK DOESNT COUNT!
Rate my homebrew: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=323
-
2022-07-16, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
Yeah, and what should that change? Are you maybe under the false impression that a pinned character may not attack anymore? If that is the case, reread pls the rule. It sole limits movement ("imobile").
Originally Posted by SRD
Of course yes! I talk about fire elemental itself and your trying to explain why he isn't hot. Room temperature fire elemental is nonsense even if nothing in rulebooks saying this directly.
Forever pin example is just example it shouldn't be something from real game. It isn't assumption it's thought experiment. My sole assumption is: "Fire Elemental should be constantly burning hot." against your: "Fire Elemental can be of room temperature."
UPD:
Yes, I have!
As we have agreed, there is no mechanical dysfunction that it becomes unplayable/unsolvable.
While we could explain what is happening with real life physics, you insist that the F. Elemental is constantly having the same high temperature over its entire body. You are implying things that are not presented by rules to discredit em.
What happens when you cover up fire? You extinguish the covered fire (unless the reaction is non Oxigen/air based, which are rare).
And while I said, room temperature fire, that was just meant as one possible option. How about fire with a temperature slightly below boiling point. Contact won't kill you right away, but will definitively hurt you. And since you have now covered the spot, the reaction at that spot is stopped and the temperature starts to drop.
Instead of picking sole one point of view, I would suggest to try multiple views on a situation before calling it dysfunctional. You just picked one view, that you favor for some reason, and ignore other possible options. Instead of relying on non ruletext-based assumptions to discredit rules, you could take the rules and try to find real life explanations. But that might require more work (and sometimes more research... I 'm reminded of a debate where we where discussing the anatomy of beholders and squids and the like, if they have heads for the multiheaded template...
edit: we even had someone outing himself as biology professor, who did gave us a free lesson on the anatomy of animals..^^).Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2022-07-16 at 09:06 PM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2022-07-17, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Dysfunctional Rules X: I Cast Comprehend Rules
This impression isn't false.
This is the false impression:
It sole restricts your movement and provides additional "attack replacement"-actions.
Nowhere does the text imply a restriction to your attacks.
Originally Posted by SRD
If you still don't agree with me, there is one guy who can confirm my words, you maybe know him.
Originally Posted by Skip Williams
As we have agreed, there is no mechanical dysfunction that it becomes unplayable/unsolvable.
There are no mechanical issue in the non-burning elemental, yes. But it still is dysfunctional, because while it work, it work wrong, not work as it should work.
While we could explain what is happening with real life physics
Second. Aragorn's pant. J. R. R. Tolkien newer said that Aragorn wore pant. Does it mean that Aragorn walk around parading his reproductive organs or we should use default idea that men wear pants? Nowhere in D&D rules said nothing about Fire elemental temperature, yes. Do you really think Fire elemental can be room temperature without special indication to this? Or can we use our default that "fire is hot"?
And while I said, room temperature fire, that was just meant as one possible option.
How about fire with a temperature slightly below boiling point.
Read again:
The merest touch from their fiery bodies is sufficient to set many materials aflame.Last edited by loky1109; 2022-07-17 at 05:35 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2022-07-17, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008