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Thread: Linux ITP
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2010-03-18, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Linux ITP
I'm a Linux user, as I'm sure some have noticed, and I'm interested in which distro's of Linux the other playgrounders use, and what they think of the versions I'm using.
On my desktop, I currently use Ubuntu Karmic Koala with the Gnome GUI, but I've been experimenting with Arch Linux on my laptop.
What are your experiences with using the command-line?
Arch doesn't come with a pre-installed GUI, but I've just set-up FluxBox and am seeing what I can do with it.
Do most people who use linux avoid the command-line?
I like Gnome, but I don't like it's flashy moving parts. I'm more of a K.I.S.S. person when it comes to UI, but on the other hand the windows classic theme is so very ugly.This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-18, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Well, in my house there are 2 machines with Windows xp, and one with Xubuntu.
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2010-03-18, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
At work I use Centos4 with KDE3. I prefer Gnome, but the Gnome installation at work is buggy and I don't have root access to change it. KDE is tolerable but I'm not a fan.
I'm running Debian at home. Used to run Ubuntu but I hate Karmic with the burning passion of a thousand suns. I use the xmonad tiling window manager, which is definitely one of the more esoteric WMs I've found.
Here's the deal with tiling. It splits the entirety of the screen among all the windows on that screen. Like other WMs, xmonad has several virtual desktops so you can tile all your aim chats or all your firefox windows in the same desktop instead of squishing everything into one single screen. How the tiles are split depends on your settings and can be changed at any point. There are no window bars or close/maximize/hide buttons.
This sounds like a strange way to manage your windows and I was resistant to it for a while. Then I got wrist pain and started to think about ways to use the mouse less often. Clicking and dragging sucks for me, so I wanted to eliminate it from my workflow. When I started thinking about how a mouseless window manager would work, the logical conclusion was tiling. I let the computer place the windows and I do a couple keyboard commands when I need to move things around.
I'd babble more about tiling, but this guide does it better: http://xmonad.org/tour.html
Yarram,
I tried Arch briefly. I wanted to like it but it was a little too hardcore. I don't mind being dumped at a command line after the installation, but Arch expected too much from the user. I installed X and got that running and then discovered that xorg's mouse and keyboard drivers were in a separate package. At that point I decided it wasn't the distro for me, at least not with the amount of free time I currently don't have.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-18, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I recently bought a new laptop (Win7), and now I'm thinking of installing Linux on my old one, just to get to know it.
What would you recommend starting out with? I have no previous linux experience, but I've done a bit of programming and know how to follow a guide if it comes to that.Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.
Avatar by Balford
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2010-03-18, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I realized I ignored this part due to my xmonad rant.
I used the command line for a majority of what I do on the computer. The big exception is firefox. The websites I visit expect you to have a mouse. I could use elinks or w3m, but what's the point? I draw in the gimp and I watch videos in mplayer. Neither of those tasks makes sense for a commandline app. I still listen to music in rhythmbox, though I'm not sure why. Whatever music app I use is going to be controlled from the multimedia keys on my keyboard, so it doesn't really matter to me if it's got a GUI or a TUI and rhythmbox hasn't pissed me off enough to make me want to switch yet.
Just about everything else is command line based. When you really learn the command line it's just more efficient.
What about gnome is too flashy? I don't think it has a lot of moving parts. If you're running compiz (which I think Ubuntu comes with these days), that adds some fancy eye candy (like the wobbly window effect) and I agree that that's a frivolous waste of CPU cycles.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-18, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Ubuntu is the standard for newbies. Unlike Arch or Debian it will have a graphical installer that leaves you with a complete desktop system ready for use. I wasn't a big fan of the current release, but the next one is due out next month. It's a good starting point and the forums are excellent.
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-18, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I use Ubuntu karmic with the Gnome GUI. I've considered trying other distros, but after wrestling with Red Hat back in the day I'm just happy to have something that works without a lot of effort on my end. KDE makes me feel dirty. I liked Enlightenment way back when, but I don't think its supported anymore.
Unlike a lot of Linux users I don't do computer-related work, I just got tired of Spyware, rampant RAM consumption, frequent crashing and constant slow-down in Windows.
So I don't have much use for the command line. I know enough to get by, but for the most part I cut n' paste commands for it from the Ubuntu forums. I don't have a great memory for commands and I constantly screw up the formatting, so the less I go to Terminal the better. It might be easier If I hadn't used DOS so much way back when, I keep trying to use DOS commands.
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2010-03-18, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
You might want to look into the alias command. You can use it to translate your DOS commands into linux ones. For instance
alias dir='ls'
will run the ls command whenever you use dir. You can type this in a shell to try it out or add it to your .bashrc file so it gets run every time you start a bash shell.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-18, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I tend to use Ubuntu, although I think I screwed something up on my install, most recently.
When I was successfully using Ubuntu, I used the terminal a lot.
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2010-03-18, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
being a Sysadmin I have experience with various flavors of Linux.
Spoiler
- * Suse
* RedHat
* CentOS
* Debian
On the desktop side I have tried some Distros, but mostly stuck to openSUSE, up until 11.2. Since then I've been using mainly LFS and ArchLinux, both of which I enjoy. Fedora is nice if a bit unwieldy, Ubuntu is the DEVIL, Debian is stable (obvious tautology is obvious), sidux is funny, OpenGEU is Eyecandy but tends to crash a lot and Gentoo is... well... Gentoo.
Apart from older openSUSE releases I'd have to say that ArchLinux is the best Linux experience I've had up to now. Great speed, great customizability, great Forums/Documentation. I'd even recommend it to someone who has only the most basic Linux knowledge.
As for Window Managers/Desktop Environments: I've been using Fluxbox for some years now. Nothing like it. Highly customizable, fast, looks nice enough and does what it should.
I'd recommend padding it out with various tools from XFCE4, like thunar and the mixer, and maybe Sonata as audio player.
If anyone is interested in trying Arch, my mailbox is always open.
And regarding CLI: Nothing like it. Except for web browsing it's the best since sliced bread. I'm using CanterIM as my instant messenger, irssi as the IRC client, and all in all the only reason for me to have a window manager is to manage the open terminals. Currently RXVT-Unicode is the terminal emulator of choice. Nice looking, fast, customizable.
What shells do you people use? I've been trying zsh, but while I loved it's features (YAY! for parameter tab completion :D)somehow it seemed buggy to me. maybe I just configured it the wrong way...
On an interesting Sidenote: I've been thinking of starting a Thread like this since yesterday. Damn ninjasLast edited by Whoracle; 2010-03-18 at 02:48 PM.
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2010-03-18, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Right now I'm using Karmic 64bit on my custom I3 system.
(Can't wait for Lucid so I can finally use the onboard video power muahahaahaha!)
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2010-03-18, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Just plain old bash for me. I'm intrigued by zsh but deal with enough systems where it's not an option that it's just not worth investing in for me. I'd rather learn some crazy new bash features that I can use everywhere than unique zsh stuff that's limited to my primary machine.
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-18, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
It's probably the compiz that's turning me off it. It's dirty and horrible.
I'm mostly using Ubuntu because I know it works. I tried Fedora, but had a whole bunch of problems with freezing up that I couldn't fix, and I assume were graphics related. (It would freeze when the install bar was moving)
I'm really glad that I've tried out arch. I'm learning so much stuff that I'd have never considered otherwise.
A silly error this morning: When I type "exec fluxbox," the system prints an error message and reverts to the root user, "Couldn't connect to Xserver."
But when I type "startx" it start's with no problems...
Weird.
On firefox, one of my lecturers said that there's a addon that lets you use vim commands to navigate.
I think I should get it and experiment.This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-18, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
That's unsurprising. Fluxbox is nothing without X.
On firefox, one of my lecturers said that there's a addon that lets you use vim commands to navigate.
I think I should get it and experiment.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-19, 06:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
On one hand, it's alien and confusing not to have a url bar... On the other, ":o url" is way quicker than moving to the mouse, and less likely to give me RSI.
I think I like it. Plus it will help me learn VIM quicker.
Edit: I got a question. How can I permanently bind the word "owriter" on commandline to open "/usr/bin/soffice -writer"?
Google was failing me. I don't know the jargon I'm looking for.Last edited by Yarram; 2010-03-19 at 09:00 AM.
This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-19, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-19, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I read that, but wasn't sure if it worked forever or not. Thanks valadil.
EDIT: Oh, and vimperator is way superior to navigating with a touchpad it seems. I shall continue to use it, if only to get more used to Vim.Last edited by Yarram; 2010-03-19 at 09:54 AM.
This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-19, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
No problem. Just for yucks and giggles, here are my aliases. There are a few for commands I can't remember. A few more for bundling command line options into the command. And a whole lot to save on typing.
Code:alias bd='popd' alias bell="echo -e '\a'" alias bt='btdownloadcurses.bittornado --minport 34567 --maxport 34577 --max_upload_rate 25 --responsefile' alias btupload='btdownloadcurses.bittornado --minport 34567 --maxport 34577 --max_upload_rate 200 --responsefile' alias dux='du -sk ./* | sort -n | awk '\''BEGIN{ pref[1]="K"; pref[2]="M"; pref[3]="G";} { total = total + $1; x = $1; y = 1; while( x > 1024 ) { x = (x + 1023)/1024; y++; } printf("%g%s\t%s\n",int(x*10)/10,pref[y],$2); } END { y = 1; while( total > 1024 ) { total = (total + 1023)/1024; y++; } printf("Total: %g%s\n",int(total*10)/10,pref[y]); }'\''' alias e='emacs -nw' alias fontcache-refresh=' fc-cache -f' alias ls='ls --color=auto' alias myip='curl http://whatismyip.org ; echo' alias n='nano' alias tf='tail -f' alias s='screen' alias sx='screen -x' alias su='su -m' alias sudo='A=`alias` sudo ' alias wake-rj="ssh dreamhost ./wol.sh ; delay 35 ; ssh home" alias v='vim '
Code:#ls which does ls -lh on result of which. useful if /usr/bin/$BINARY is a symlink and I need to see where it points function lw() { if [ $# -gt 0 ] ; then for bin in $@ ; do ls -lh `which $bin` ; done else echo "lw (ls which) requires more than 0 arguments" fi } #make a dir, cd into it function mkcd() { mkdir -p "$@"; pushd "$@" > /dev/null; echo $PWD; } # extract archives. should handle multiple files. function x() { case $@ in *.tar.bz2) tar -xvjf "$@" ;; *.tar.gz) tar -xvzf "$@" ;; *.bz2) bunzip2 "$@" ;; *.rar) unrar x "$@" ;; *.gz) gunzip "$@" ;; *.tar) tar xf "$@" ;; *.tbz2) tar -xvjf "$@" ;; *.tgz) tar -xvzf "$@" ;; *.zip) unzip "$@" ;; *.xpi) unzip "$@" ;; *.Z) uncompress "$@" ;; *.7z) 7z x "$@" ;; *.ace) unace e "$@" ;; *.arj) arj -y e "$@" ;; *) echo "'$@' cannot be extracted via x()" ;; esac } # packs $2-$n into $1 depending on $1's extension. add more file types as needed function pack() { if [ $# -lt 2 ] ; then echo -e "\npack() usage:" echo -e "\tpack archive_file_name file1 file2 ... fileN" echo -e "\tcreates archive of files 1-N\n" else DEST=$1 shift case $DEST in *.tar.bz2) tar -cvjf $DEST "$@" ;; *.tar.gz) tar -cvzf $DEST "$@" ;; *.zip) zip -r $DEST "$@" ;; *.xpi) zip -r $DEST "$@" ;; esac fi } # like sleep, but spits out a . every second function delay() { typeset -i NUM NUM=$1 if [ $NUM -gt 0 ] ; then for i in `seq $NUM` ; do sleep 1 ; echo -n '.' ; done echo "" else echo "Invalid argument. Please use a positive integer." fi } # changes cd to pushd. as a function so that cd with no args still brings you home. see bd as popd function cd() { if [ $# -eq 0 ] ; then pushd $HOME else pushd "$@" > /dev/null fi } # screen attach. if multiple, presents a menu for choosing. function ssx() { OPTS=`screen -ls | grep "[0-9]\." | while read line ; do echo "$line" | sed -e 's/\s/_/g' ; done` case $(echo $OPTS | wc -w) in 0) echo -e "\nNo screen sessions open\n" ;; 1) SESSION=$OPTS echo -e "\nAttaching to only available screen" ;; *) echo -e "\nPick a screen session" select opt in $OPTS ; do SESSION=$opt break; done ;; esac screen -x $(echo $SESSION | sed -e 's/\..*//') } function calc() { awk "BEGIN{ print $* }" ; } # returns age of file in seconds function age() { CURRENT=$( date +%s ) FILEAGE=$( stat -t $1 -c %Z ) calc $CURRENT - $FILEAGE }
Pushd is like cd except that it remembers the directories you've visited. Popd goes back to them. To use these I overwrite cd with pushd. I called popd bd, which stands for back directory.
Screen is awesome for the command line. It lets you put multiple terminals in a single term window. What's amazing about it is that you can detach from your screen session and reattach later. What this means is I can leave my IRC session running at home, go to work, ssh back home, and open the terminal I left for myself. I just included some helper aliases for functions that I type a lot.
The alias for sudo is a little weird and I don't really understand it. What it's supposed to do is call my aliases before I call sudo. That way if I do sudo v file" it remembers my v alias instead of making me type vim. I have no idea why A= is necessary in that alias, or even how I discovered it.
Bell is an alarm. It lets a window tell me when it's done processing something. The way I have my WM set up, each desktop can light up when it has something demanding my attention. Most of the time that only matters for email or aim. But sometimes I want to leave a long running script going in the background. I don't always hear a beep, so it's nice to have xmonad know when my stuff is done. This probably doesn't apply for anyone not using a weird WM like xmonad.Last edited by valadil; 2010-03-19 at 10:27 AM.
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-19, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
After searching and not finding a good exit-app for Fluxbox, I spent the day writing one myself. Here it is, dependent on python and gtk+:
Code:#!/usr/bin/env python # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- import pygtk pygtk.require('2.0') import gtk import os class DoTheLogOut: # Cancel/exit def delete_event(self, widget, event, data=None): gtk.main_quit() return False # Reboot def reboot(self, widget): os.system("sudo shutdown -r now && fluxbox-remote \"exit\"") # Shutdown def shutdown(self, widget): os.system("sudo shutdown -h now && fluxbox-remote \"exit\"") # Logout def logout(self, widget): os.system("fluxbox-remote \"exit\"") def __init__(self): # Create a new window self.window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL) self.window.set_decorated(False) self.window.set_resizable(False) self.window.set_position(1) self.window.set_border_width(20) # Create an accelgroup and add it to the window accel_group = gtk.AccelGroup() self.window.add_accel_group(accel_group) # Create a box to pack widgets into self.table1 = gtk.Table(2, 3, True) self.window.add(self.table1) # Create shutdown button self.button4 = gtk.Button("Shutdown") self.button4.set_border_width(5) self.button4.connect("clicked", self.shutdown) self.button4.add_accelerator("clicked", accel_group, gtk.gdk.keyval_from_name('s'), 0, 0) self.button4.show() # Create reboot button self.button3 = gtk.Button("Reboot") self.button3.set_border_width(5) self.button3.connect("clicked", self.reboot) self.button3.add_accelerator("clicked", accel_group, gtk.gdk.keyval_from_name('r'), 0, 0) self.button3.show() # Create logout button self.button5 = gtk.Button("Logout") self.button5.set_border_width(5) self.button5.connect("clicked", self.logout) self.button5.add_accelerator("clicked", accel_group, gtk.gdk.keyval_from_name('l'), 0, 0) self.button5.show() # Create cancel button self.button1 = gtk.Button("Cancel") self.button1.set_border_width(5) self.button1.connect("clicked", self.delete_event, "closed") self.button1.add_accelerator("clicked", accel_group, gtk.gdk.keyval_from_name('Escape'), 0, 0) self.button1.add_accelerator("clicked", accel_group, gtk.gdk.keyval_from_name('c'), 0, 0) self.button1.show() self.table1.attach(self.button4, 0, 1, 0, 1) self.table1.attach(self.button3, 1, 2, 0, 1) self.table1.attach(self.button5, 2, 3, 0, 1) self.table1.attach(self.button1, 1, 2, 1, 2) self.table1.show() self.window.show() def main(): gtk.main() if __name__ == "__main__": run_it = DoTheLogOut() main()
Spoilercopy the code to some file (I called it fluxshutdown). Then copy the file to /usr/bin or somewhere appropiate. chmod +x the file, add yourself to the sudoers files and add the following line to .fluxbox/menu:
[exec] (Exit) {/path/to/fluxshutdown}
For the "Logout" button to work, you have to set the following in your ~/.fluxbox/init to true:
session.screen0.allowRemoteActions: false (around line 58, I think)
Here's a screenshot:
Spoiler
Have fun with it.Last edited by Whoracle; 2010-03-20 at 05:27 AM.
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2010-03-19, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Wow. Just wow.
Do people ever tell you how cool you are?
Thankyou. I've just been using "exit" or "halt" in the command-prompt...This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-20, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
You're welcome
I've been using the cli or commands in the menu myself. and since there was no suitable tool for fluxbox it was high time to do one myself.
Forgot one thing in the install instructions, though:
For the "Logout" button to work, you have to set the following in your ~/.fluxbox/init to true:
session.screen0.allowRemoteActions: false (around line 58, I think)
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2010-03-20, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Ubuntu Netbook Remix (Karmic Koala build), set to dual boot with Windows XP on my son's Acer Aspire 1 netbook. The original hard drive crapped out just before the warranty did, and when it finally got back from the repair place in Texas it had a hard time playing YouTube videos. So I installed Ubuntu, and he normally selects Linux since he wants to watch his videos WITHOUT having the computer lock up.
Yes, Ubuntu Linux, so simple a nine-year-old can use it, and works so well even a nine-year-old can tell the difference!Thanks to Ceika (X2), Yeril, Holammer and Dr. Bath for the Avatars!
New Avatar, new form of self-destruction! Ceika is Beyond Awesome!
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2010-03-21, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Fluxboxers ITP, I need help.
I want a graphical task switcher for my FluxBox. So far I have only found skippy, which is
a) unmaintained
b) slow
c) won't run on x86_64 systems
I need another alternative. Anyone know of one?
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2010-03-21, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
A graphical task switcher?
Oh, you mean so when you push alt+tab it shows what task you're navigating too?
I'm about as stumped as you are tbh.This text is yellow.Spoiler
TUBATAR!
Why? Because tuba is the awesomeness.
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2010-03-22, 02:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-03-22, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Whoracle,
Have you tried running compiz on top of fluxbox? I haven't used it in a while but I'm pretty sure it came with an alt-tab task switcher. It was one of the only things I liked about running compiz.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-22, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Valadil, that won't work. compiz is a window manager like fluxbox, so it'd replace fluxbox. Plus, even if it would work, I use Flux because of it's low memory footprint, which compiz would kinda defeat.
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2010-03-22, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2010-03-22, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
I'm looking around to build a linux server, CentOS was recommended, though I think I'd rather use Arch to learn and build up if possible. Was recommended to use FreeNX for the server software. Any opinions or experience on this? Also, what would be the best file system to work on this?
I've toyed with Enlightenment a little bit before, wondering if anyone has had any positive experience with it. Seemed like a spiffy DE.
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2010-03-22, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Linux ITP
Re: Server
I don't particularly like CentOS, and if you're not going for corporate support you can always try arch. What kind of services is it going to run? Fileserver? Webserver? LDAP? DNS/DHCP? Video/Audio streaming?
For the file system, that depends on the setup you'll use, on the hardware available and on the desired availability. RAID? Cluster? Single Setup? Network shares?
Re: Enlightenment
I've never used E16, but I dabbled in distros like OpenGeu and eLive. Having used E17 I'll say it sure looks nice but it's nowhere near productivity use, by any stretch of imagination. Plug, I found the handling kinda "meh". Nothing groundbreaking in usability, just a pretty gnome/kde clone. YMMV, though.