https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html, the deal has been closed out.
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https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html, the deal has been closed out.
Yep once you are dead you stop developing or changing
You are who you are, you get some time to work out your baggage and fleshy urges but all that's left is the slow fade into the essence of the outer planes.
This is great -- thank you!
I still don't think we have enough (or nearly any, really) info about The Dark One to make a judgment of whether He is more or less "all in" on the plan than Redcloak. I genuinely think it could break either way, and either way would be interesting to watch -- not sure if I have a preferred outcome. Thor's side of the story seems to indicate that TDO is not interested in playing ball with the other gods at all, and will be totally committed to the Snarl Hostage plan. But weirdly, Redcloak's version of TDO's mortal life (and Jirix's story of his afterlife conversation) almost sets up TDO as more reasonable than Redcloak, and likely to work with Thor if he can get what he wants.
Yeah, the fact that TDO has completely and abruptly cut communication with every one of his former allies and kills on sight any emissary doesn't sound promising.
He could be angry about the fact they hid the Snarl from him, or he could simply think he doesn't need to play nice anymore if he can simply blackmail everygod. But both of those explanations mean he's not likely to listen to reason.
Note that he's never been directly "onstrip" the way Thor or Hel have been, though. Even in the strips he appears in, he's "narrated" by someone else. And every direct info we have about him comes from unreliable narrators : his devoted priest (Jirix), his enemy who barely knows him (Thor), and a god of deceit (Loki). So "who is really TDO?" or, more importantly "WWTDOD" are kinda unclear for the moment.
Put in the camp that thinks there's a likelihood that the Dark One is *less* evil than assumed not more.
I mean he is still evil, but as horrible as some people here think.
There's obviously a reason why Redcloak mentioned several times in panel that he does not get direct communication from The Dark One when we have seen that Odin, Hel, Thor and Loki can talk to their clerics.
Also, I highly doubt Redcloak is going to survive this story. He'll enact Thor's plan, but will die shortly after.
Having Redcloak die just help tie everything in a neat little bow. He doesn't get to live after all the evil he has done and on the other hand, him eventually doing the right thing will lead to the ultimate wish of all clerics - to finally be with his god.
Mmm... I don't think Redcloack can get a redemption, not before the end at least.
He is too far gone into his own plans and acording to him if he abandons them everything he has worked for will have been for nothing. For him to actually realize that he is wrong he won't need a realitzation, he will need all his efforts to become pointless.
I think that what would be required to happen is that he "wins" somehow, he would complete the ritual and teleport the Gate to The Dark One or atleast something close enought, but to do that he would need to channel The Dark One's power and that would be enought Purple color to seal the Gate forever, basically meaning that the plan was flawed from the start because both Redcloack and The Dark One didn't had enought information because they both refused to listen to others.
Once he had both "won" and "lost" then he would had completed his mission while not acomplishing his objective, forcing him to either change and force himself to think about what he has done or break and lash out.
Not much chances of that, the Giant explained that the Rift-sealing ritual has to be voluntary (last paragraph).
That's sort of funny, unless you are Redcloak. If TDO gets consumed by the Snarl, RC gets no spells, and he reverts to simply being a nerd who nobody likes. Which, if the world survives, might result in him returning to his brother's village and trying to undertake a journey of redemption as a regular goblin doing regular stuff in the community andQuote:
and in fact it would be far more likely that some of the evil gods would start spamming big flashy portals to the Dark One's domain until the Snarl took the bait and went through.
Spoiler: SoD Spoiler?doing his best to help and support h is nieces/nephews, whose father he betrayed.
Handy to have this Word of Giant available to preclude a few pages of guesswork.Quote:
It's contributing a 9th-level spell slot willingly to a specific ritual that Thor will explain to Durkon later, not just casting any 9th-level spell at any target.
Not sure what you are basing this on. #1206 says the opposite.
:redcloak: Wait, he told you this? In person? You actually met Thor?
:durkon: Aye! E' Gave me this mission 'imself
:redcloak: ... I've never spoken to my god. Not directly.
:durkon: Oh! Well, I'm sure e's just, busy. Wit' work n' stuff
:redcloak: I know. I try to give him space.
:durkon: 'E prob'bly just wants ta take things slow. See how they go.
:redcloak: I've been his high priest for 35 years.
:durkon: …Mebbe 'e dinnae want to ruin tha friendship?
It seems clear that The Dark One isn't the one initiating contact and Redcloak is ready to take their communication to the next level.
You have that backwards.
Thor did not initiate communication with Durkon until he died. There was ample time to have done so before. The gods seem to be the ones waiting for the call.
They even offer commune spells for that specific purpose. They answer prayers for spells, give signs and portents, and in one specific case, sent a courier to repeat his specific message.
Redcloak could ask via Commune if he is doing the right thing.
Redcloak could pray for a sign that he is doing the right thing.
Redcloak could instruct a powerful hobgoblin in what he wishes to say to TDO, kill it, then raise the dead hobgoblin to get the reply.
Redcloak could have used Plane Shift on the day he made Level 9 to go to TDO's plane and ask for a heart-to-heart.
If RC really wanted to talk to his god, he has the means. It is not TDO shutting out RC, it is RC avoiding The Dark One.
First off, we've seen Durkon call for Thor's help multiple times. It's always a cutaway joke panel where Thor is preoccupied and not paying attention. The impression I've always had is that direct deific revelation is extremely rare, and vague or unanswered messages are the norm.
Also, we've seen how tedious Commune is to use when Durkon used it recently. It crapped out on him after like two minutes. If Thor wanted to have a single uninterrupted conversation with Durkon, waiting for him to die was the best way to do it.
All of that does not diminish the fact that Redcloak can attempt to initiate a conversation with The Dark One whenever he chooses, but has not tried.
Praying for spells is not the same as speaking to a deity. But a deity can choose to not grant them if it wishes to send a message. So far, The Dark One continues to grant spells to RC, so we know RC is not out-of-door with TDO.
If RC never tried to commune with TDO (despite complaining about lack of communication), then he is significantly further in the "know that he is wrong but doesn't want to hear it" than I understood, in the sense that not only he is stuck in the sunk cost fallacy but he also fear that his own god might disagree with him on some points.
If RC cannot commune with TDO, then that means there are additional details about TDO's personality and/or his power that we don't know yet.
My personal feeling is that the comics are more going for the latter than the former (almost everything about TDO is kept as a mystery, including if he is fully completed as a deity), but IMO both are compatible with what we know and the former would naturally lead to a finale relying on "TDO is not that bas of a god".
The trouble is that Thor's Plan also requires ongoing cooporation to spot-weld the Snarl's prison as new rifts open up. If Redcloak's aid is a one-and-done deal before TDO cuts him off from new spells, he can't continue to partake in Thor's plan and the world ends. TDO actually has to get on board at some point or the plan doesn't work.
I think Thor's plan is a Proof-Of-Concept, intended to show everyone the potential of a 4Q Patch System®, with the long-term logistics being a problem for the production staff to work out.
Because, when this is all over, Thor is going to drinka beer or two and relaxan ocean of beer and pass out for a decade or two. He won't be that worried about what they do with the other gates, and would be in no condition to help anyway.